Author Topic: Darren Moore  (Read 844363 times)

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mulliganstired

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1700 on: October 05, 2018, 12:55:20 PM »
The one thing that kind of surprises me is that for all Moore's massive qualities, with the best will in the world he was never a twinkle toed footballer himself, so why is he expecting 3 old fashioned center halves to manage such a change of style??  I'm just wondering if it comes more from Jones/Belgium?

You can see the logic though, if teams are thinking "right we'll press hard they've only got three at the back so they'll be open out wide", then they are going to leave gaps elsewhere for us to exploit.

Mind you, I don't think anyone will be telling Hegazi to carry on with the Cruyff turns in the six yard box. >:(

FallOutBoy

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1701 on: October 05, 2018, 01:28:02 PM »
Darren Moore has just been named Skybet Championship Manager of the month.

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/october/duo-scoop-september-awards/

I'm happy he's got it, it's deserved on results. However...

His awards and his results as head coach shouldn't shield him from any and all criticism. But they should be taken into account when discussing his faults. It's a nuanced discussion, and the internet doesn't lend itself to nuance - especially Twitter, where an opinion has to be conveyed in a small amount of characters. So you say you're for something, and you're immediately against something else, even if you didn't say that.

Moore has had a terrific start as head coach, and deserves the plaudits for reinvigorating a team and fanbase that had found themselves drifting. However that should not stop constructive criticism of the way he sets his defence up, or the rate that we're conceding goals; if either of our loan stars get called back or injured, we're in trouble, and we need to sort it out sooner rather than later.

I think any talk of the sack is peoples comments taken out of context, at least on here. But we need to be able to have a grown up discussion about his merits and shortcomings.

Albionic

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1702 on: October 05, 2018, 01:54:27 PM »
I think the situation is pretty simple really,
1. look at the squad,
2. identify where are the strengths / weaknesses,
3. formulate a plan to maximise the strengths (attack) and limit the weaknesses (defence / age) of available resources ability to the best of their ability
4. Start solidly, as opposition tires deploy more creativity to exploit oppos tiredness

In parallel
a) build off field strength with objective of maximising what we have and
b) Plan for addressing weaknesses identified above (and developing) when window opens.

Simples this football mullarkey.
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johnny Cash

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1703 on: October 05, 2018, 02:23:09 PM »
i just re-read the Sheff Wed in game chat and with the benefit of hindsight its hilarious.

My absolute favourite is this gem

Also, we are 40 yards from their goal. Unless we expect Barnes to run 40 yards with the ball, how exactly do we get in behind.

Got the lottery numbers please ???

 :D That was me. Couldn't believe it when minutes later he did exactly that though. Although it did kind of prove my point.

I stand by it though. The subs were crazy and if Barnes hadn't done that, I am certain there would have been more people saying how strange they were.

I do like to think I am quite balanced though. I still think DM tenure will end badly, but talk of sacking him is stupid. Having given him the chance, we have to back him. It is hard to place all the issues with the squad and selection at his feet too as he hasn't been able to make his mark yet.

There is a lot to improve though or we will not compete with the top two, and my frustration comes from the fact it doesn't seem to be getting any better. If that was because I thought we were incapable I would be more accepting, but I genuinely feel we are capable of much much better.




Albionic

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1704 on: October 05, 2018, 02:28:19 PM »
:D That was me. Couldn't believe it when minutes later he did exactly that though. Although it did kind of prove my point.

I stand by it though. The subs were crazy and if Barnes hadn't done that, I am certain there would have been more people saying how strange they were.

I do like to think I am quite balanced though. I still think DM tenure will end badly, but talk of sacking him is stupid. Having given him the chance, we have to back him. It is hard to place all the issues with the squad and selection at his feet too as he hasn't been able to make his mark yet.

There is a lot to improve though or we will not compete with the top two, and my frustration comes from the fact it doesn't seem to be getting any better. If that was because I thought we were incapable I would be more accepting, but I genuinely feel we are capable of much much better.

As i said with the benefit of hindsight, BTW whats the score tomorrow ???  ;D
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johnny Cash

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1705 on: October 05, 2018, 03:06:37 PM »
As i said with the benefit of hindsight, BTW whats the score tomorrow ???  ;D

Our second clean sheet. 3-0!

frazzle

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1706 on: October 05, 2018, 03:13:12 PM »
There was always plenty of Pulis fans saying he needed loads of transfer windows to shape the team as he wanted it. I fully expect those same people to give Moore that same time. 

wba_1996

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1707 on: October 05, 2018, 03:50:04 PM »
we have bucked trends in the past, can we PLEASE buck one more, no sacking manager / coach for a min of 3 years - lets have some stability and BUILD for success, not demand instant gratification.

I’d have loved that, but our transfer business has made that a no-go. Whether it was the decision of Moore, or he had his hands tied, we’ve gone very short-term with our recruitment yet again. Fail to get promoted this season and we’re in a mess, Gayle and Barnes won’t be here next season and almost all of the current squad will be 29+ years old or released.

It’s not like we’ve signed a bunch of kids and we’re relying on our academy graduates, where it’s obvious that we’re trying to build something and the fans can get behind a longer-term project. The club’s recruitment screams they want instant results, so that’s what I’m looking for. If Moore doesn’t get us promoted he’s failed.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 03:52:26 PM by wba_1996 »

SmethDan

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1708 on: October 05, 2018, 04:44:29 PM »
I.thought you were saying that Martis and meiti were in the 2008  promotion team. I meant wasn't meiti bought in the prem.

I remember volmer, Moore and Gilchrist for the first promotion under god Gary.

But, wasn't sure about 2008.

I wasn't saying anything in the first instance as you weren't quoting me  ;D .
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1709 on: October 05, 2018, 05:00:51 PM »
I’d have loved that, but our transfer business has made that a no-go. Whether it was the decision of Moore, or he had his hands tied, we’ve gone very short-term with our recruitment yet again. Fail to get promoted this season and we’re in a mess, Gayle and Barnes won’t be here next season and almost all of the current squad will be 29+ years old or released.

It’s not like we’ve signed a bunch of kids and we’re relying on our academy graduates, where it’s obvious that we’re trying to build something and the fans can get behind a longer-term project. The club’s recruitment screams they want instant results, so that’s what I’m looking for. If Moore doesn’t get us promoted he’s failed.

As much as people will cite this as more negativity, you are 100% right.

All of the sunmer decisions and everything Moore has done so far screams short term.

From our signings to our squad selections and our decisions to keep 5 under 22's in our reserves rather than loaning them out, no decision so far has been taken with a view to the following seasons and future planning.

Moore needs instant success this year or we will be in trouble.

Now in Moore's defence, he has us 1 point off the top after a quarter of the season and ahead of both of the relegated teams. He also got it spot on with the Gayle and Rondon swap (I hold my hands up as having doubts about that deal but he was 100% right).

The players he has brought in for this season's challenge are exactly what we need to make an instant return, butnif he fails we can't use the excuse of "we can't judge until he has had time to shape the squad" because his decision hasn't been to build a project. We have gone down the Stoke route and not the Swansea route (albeit Moore has done it so much better that Rowett so far while playing better football).
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liverbaggie

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1710 on: October 05, 2018, 06:51:19 PM »
Everything is short term now mate,
Players,coaches and managers.
On average 2 or 3 years max.
What is long term?
Enjoy while you can everything comes in cycles.

KYA

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1711 on: October 05, 2018, 07:01:49 PM »
Everything is short term now mate,
Players,coaches and managers.
On average 2 or 3 years max.
What is long term?
Enjoy while you can everything comes in cycles.

Fans want instant success is it any wonder managers only look at short term.

boinging_along

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1712 on: October 05, 2018, 07:08:58 PM »
There was always plenty of Pulis fans saying he needed loads of transfer windows to shape the team as he wanted it. I fully expect those same people to give Moore that same time.

Indeed. Likewise those saying Pulis hasn't done enough to bring in better players after 1 or 2 Windows will also aim the same criticism at Darren Moore.  Pulis would have got slaughtered if he put the team out that Moore did in the cup and lost.

Oldbury24

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1713 on: October 05, 2018, 08:17:43 PM »
If we don't go up who's to say that Darren Moore and the new DF won't use the remaining parachute money to buy young, upcoming talent and build again.  If we go up with this squad we may be back for a period of yo-yoing again anyway. 

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1714 on: October 05, 2018, 08:44:02 PM »
If we don't go up who's to say that Darren Moore and the new DF won't use the remaining parachute money to buy young, upcoming talent and build again.  If we go up with this squad we may be back for a period of yo-yoing again anyway.

If we don’t go up this season, it is highly unlikely that DM will get that opportunity.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1715 on: October 05, 2018, 09:18:02 PM »
Regardless of what happens this season next season will require a massive update to the squad. At least in the prem there's money to do it, if we are relying on more parachute payments it will be incredibly tough.

Oldbury24

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1716 on: October 05, 2018, 10:07:47 PM »
If we don’t go up this season, it is highly unlikely that DM will get that opportunity.

Unless the backside completely falls out of our season i just can't see it.   Surely you would back him to go again.   But then i guess things can change quickly in this game.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1717 on: October 05, 2018, 10:24:18 PM »
Unless the backside completely falls out of our season i just can't see it.   Surely you would back him to go again.   But then i guess things can change quickly in this game.

The way we finished last season and continue the rest of this season, I would not have to make that decision, because we would have been promoted and Darren would be hailed as truly the ‘Espirito Santo’

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1718 on: October 06, 2018, 10:11:21 AM »
I think within the club there is an understanding that we are going through a fairly substantial change in culture and playing style and I would hope that Darren is given the time to see that process through. That means he has to be given at least another season almost regardless of how this season turns out. I don't think any other outcome is fair.

 I believe that this squad is capable of making the play-offs but it is going to be broken up at the end of the season regardless of which Division we find ourselves in. I remember posters commenting on Pulis being given time to bring his players in although I might have not been that sympathetic to that argument because no coach starts with a blank sheet of paper and a measure of a coaches ability is getting the best out of what they have got rather than hand picking talent to match their style. However if that argument has any validity then Darren needs to be given the same latitude.

I would argue that had club appointed a quick fix manager (like Steve Bruce) bet the house on getting out of the division at the first attempt then the whole dynamic is different. Either the manager is delivering or they aren't. If results aren't going your way fire the manager while there is still enough of the season for the next quick fix manager to come in and turn things round. However we did not do that so Darren needs to be given time.
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1719 on: October 06, 2018, 11:32:17 AM »
I think within the club there is an understanding that we are going through a fairly substantial change in culture and playing style and I would hope that Darren is given the time to see that process through. That means he has to be given at least another season almost regardless of how this season turns out. I don't think any other outcome is fair.

 I believe that this squad is capable of making the play-offs but it is going to be broken up at the end of the season regardless of which Division we find ourselves in. I remember posters commenting on Pulis being given time to bring his players in although I might have not been that sympathetic to that argument because no coach starts with a blank sheet of paper and a measure of a coaches ability is getting the best out of what they have got rather than hand picking talent to match their style. However if that argument has any validity then Darren needs to be given the same latitude.

I would argue that had club appointed a quick fix manager (like Steve Bruce) bet the house on getting out of the division at the first attempt then the whole dynamic is different. Either the manager is delivering or they aren't. If results aren't going your way fire the manager while there is still enough of the season for the next quick fix manager to come in and turn things round. However we did not do that so Darren needs to be given time.

I agree in essence with what you said in that Moore needs to be given time.  I think what DM brings is honesty, integrity, passion, motivation, team ethic and all round good nature.  I would hazard a guess that Graham Jones is having a lot of impact with game awareness and tactics.  You do wonder how “bright” many of the British managers actually are and to what level of detail they go into the game generally.  For instance, you can imagine Guardiola just being a naturally intelligent person.

One thing I don’t agree on is why should we set the bar at Top6?  We have players with vast experience.  I reckon the captures of Hoolahan / Sako will prove to be inspired and no other Championship clubs have done this.  I think we should be aiming to win the league.  Who is there to scare us?  No one is being deluded it’s important to be confident.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1720 on: October 06, 2018, 12:37:38 PM »
I agree in essence with what you said in that Moore needs to be given time.  I think what DM brings is honesty, integrity, passion, motivation, team ethic and all round good nature.  I would hazard a guess that Graham Jones is having a lot of impact with game awareness and tactics.  You do wonder how “bright” many of the British managers actually are and to what level of detail they go into the game generally.  For instance, you can imagine Guardiola just being a naturally intelligent person.

One thing I don’t agree on is why should we set the bar at Top6?  We have players with vast experience.  I reckon the captures of Hoolahan / Sako will prove to be inspired and no other Championship clubs have done this.  I think we should be aiming to win the league.  Who is there to scare us?  No one is being deluded it’s important to be confident.
I think we should be aiming to win the league.  Who is there to scare us?
Bartley & Mears!?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 12:39:22 PM by wbastrollers »

frazzle

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1721 on: October 06, 2018, 04:58:18 PM »
Fantastic once again from Moore who got the team going after half time. He also managed to avoid the manager of the month jinx.

Hopefully get more training into the back 3, get the team rested and get philips and Sako in the squad for the next game.

Superb stuff.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1722 on: October 06, 2018, 05:59:51 PM »
Just heard a stat that we have, at the beginning of October, scored as many goals as we managed the whole of last season under Pulis/Pardew.
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1723 on: October 06, 2018, 06:27:29 PM »
Just heard a stat that we have, at the beginning of October, scored as many goals as we managed the whole of last season under Pulis/Pardew.

Incredible isn’t it? And when our forward play clicks it’s wonderful to watch. Exhilarating football from Albion.

Thank you Darren.
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #1724 on: October 06, 2018, 06:34:54 PM »
Well done big Dave you are doing a tremendous job.

Bringing in your longtime friend Jones was a masterstroke when  Appleton was being mooted by the media.

I was worried about the full-time appointment as I always want any new manager to have earnt out top job with at least 2 promotions under his belt, but he is doing great under very bad circumstances, as I don't believe he ever thought he'd be scratching around for players in their late 30's for his squad when he got the job.

Hopefully, Jenkins sorts out the finances and dowling sorts out some good scouts and we have some gems lined up in January to boost us in what hopefully will be a final push then.

Maybe Ayling swap for Bartley, who they like at Leeds and Mckenna from the dons if dekka does us a good deal.