[Atomic]

So what you are saying is if we don't go up by the end of  next season on the back of 2 lots of parachute payments  we don't go up at all !!!!

Take a look at the table , there are 3 teams above us now who don't have any parachute payments !!!

It's all about building a team not assembling a collection of overpaid EX premier league players.  Ex premier league players who are being outplayed every week at home.

Correct.

If you look at it how many players do we have that are actual Premier League quality in that they can compete comfortably in that league. Anyone can play in that league and get relegated but how many would be at home in the Premier League?

I would say Ahmed Hegazi and that is it. Rekeem Harper probably in a couple of years time with natural progression.

Anyone else? Not for me. Gareth Barry if he were a few years younger but he'd be taken off his legs now.

[alex1]

So what you are saying is if we don't go up by the end of  next season on the back of 2 lots of parachute payments  we don't go up at all !!!!

Take a look at the table , there are 3 teams above us now who don't have any parachute payments !!!

It's all about building a team not assembling a collection of overpaid EX premier league players.  Ex premier league players who are being outplayed every week at home.

I think its going a bit far to say the ex Prem players are being outplayed every week. Though I'm not denying most turned in poor performances yesterday. But I could also point to excellent performances they have put in this season, all of them without exception. If we were to lose most at the end of the season, it would take a long time to  build a new team. For some it takes a decade or more, for some clubs, they have been trying for a very long time.   

[baggiemart]

I think its going a bit far to say the ex Prem players are being outplayed every week. Though I'm not denying most turned in poor performances yesterday. But I could also point to excellent performances they have put in this season, all of them without exception. If we were to lose most at the end of the season, it would take a long time to  build a new team. For some it takes a decade or more, for some clubs, they have been trying for a very long time.

What's the alternative, being thumped every week in the premier league.  Thats no fun at all.  I would rather be competitive in this league than finishing in the bottom 3 again next season.

Take Fulham as an example.  They killed this league in the second half of last season. If they were in this league now they would be clear at the top but they have struggled badly in the premier. 

[alex1]

What's the alternative, being thumped every week in the premier league.  Thats no fun at all.  I would rather be competitive in this league than finishing in the bottom 3 again next season.

Take Fulham as an example.  They killed this league in the second half of last season. If they were in this league now they would be clear at the top but they have struggled badly in the premier.

--
What's the point of competitive sport if you don't want to better yourself?  Unless you want to be like the US where there is no promotion and relegation.

[TheJacko2000]

What's the alternative, being thumped every week in the premier league.  Thats no fun at all.  I would rather be competitive in this league than finishing in the bottom 3 again next season.

Take Fulham as an example.  They killed this league in the second half of last season. If they were in this league now they would be clear at the top but they have struggled badly in the premier.

We won't be competitive in this division next season. It's Premier League or bust.

[baggiemart]

--
What's the point of competitive sport if you don't want to better yourself?  Unless you want to be like the US where there is no promotion and relegation.

If you read my previous thread I said wait until we have  got a side good enough to compete.  It's no good going up with this side. It's just not good enough.

We have players on loan who will go back to their respective teams, Holgate, Gayle, Murphy, Tosun, Montero, Johansson.  Barry will be too old to compete in the premier league.  Some of the remaining players are just not good enough for the premier league.  So what are we left with ................  not a lot. 

It's no good saying buy 6 or 7 new players that doesn't work because its all about having a team not 11 individual players.

I do agree its about  COMPETITIVE  sport and at the moment West Brom in the premier league is not competitive sport.

[alex1]

If you read my previous thread I said wait until we have  got a side good enough to compete.  It's no good going up with this side. It's just not good enough.

We have players on loan who will go back to their respective teams, Holgate, Gayle, Murphy, Tosun, Montero, Johansson.  Barry will be too old to compete in the premier league.  Some of the remaining players are just not good enough for the premier league.  So what are we left with ................  not a lot. 

It's no good saying buy 6 or 7 new players that doesn't work because its all about having a team not 11 individual players.

I do agree its about  COMPETITIVE  sport and at the moment West Brom in the premier league is not competitive sport.

--
It's a very long shot what you're aiming for. The longer you stay outside the Prem, the more difficult it becomes, especially with crowds of around 23,000, which is currently only 8th highest in the division.  Look at Sunderland, to name just one example. Even if we manage to build a team which wins the League, you are always vulnerable to the best players getting picked off by the richer clubs, so then you're back to square one.
Its best to build on the reputation we still have as a quasi Premier club, which works to attract the better players, sponsors etc. 

[Fritzl Palace]

If you read my previous thread I said wait until we have  got a side good enough to compete.  It's no good going up with this side. It's just not good enough.

We have players on loan who will go back to their respective teams, Holgate, Gayle, Murphy, Tosun, Montero, Johansson.  Barry will be too old to compete in the premier league.  Some of the remaining players are just not good enough for the premier league.  So what are we left with ................  not a lot. 

It's no good saying buy 6 or 7 new players that doesn't work because its all about having a team not 11 individual players.

I do agree its about  COMPETITIVE  sport and at the moment West Brom in the premier league is not competitive sport.

Yes, because our squad is going to become so much better than it is now if we stay down and have reduced funds available 

[iwastherein68]

We won't be competitive in this division next season. It's Premier League or bust.

You are right there Jacko, in fact without the cash jackpot, we are at great risk of sinking into League 1 over the next year or two.
Personally I would be happy to stay and build in the Championship, if I thought that we could be competitive, but it is too big a task from where we are presently. Best we can hope for is promotion and for Lai to sell. Right now not too optimistic of either event happening.

[17GD]

I just rewatched the highlights from last night. It's even more shocking than I remembered. For their goal, there's no player within at least 10 yards of their attacking player all the way to our box. Then on later attacks it's the same story.

I don't think utd were a particularly amazing team, but they were well organised and compact. We were sloppy, stand offish and reluctant. It's even more shocking because that was arguably our strongest team.

[KN22]

We were poor for sure but not quite as bad as your ratings. I do agree about Gayle though. Just not effective at all and it’s not all about being played out wide. He’s played well there before.

[baggiemart]

You are right there Jacko, in fact without the cash jackpot, we are at great risk of sinking into League 1 over the next year or two.
Personally I would be happy to stay and build in the Championship, if I thought that we could be competitive, but it is too big a task from where we are presently. Best we can hope for is promotion and for Lai to sell. Right now not too optimistic of either event happening.

But that's something we might have to hope for.  in the end we will achieved a great deal just to get in the play offs .  Derby, Bristol City and Leeds all have matches in the week and if they win them and we lose to Leeds we will be sitting there with the pack gathering behind us with games in hand.  Derby are 7th and they will be 6 pts behind with 2 games in hand.

One saving grace for us is that Leeds will be playing Tuesday and Friday. That could give us a slight edge on Friday ................................  if the players decide to turn up !!! 

[1954]

I've just finished reading all the After Match Debate comments. The vast majority comment on Sheff Utd being quicker to the ball than us etc etc. BUT I think only one or two people mentioned the point that they were fresher than us due to our mid week match. For me that explains almost everything about our jaded performance. They had 77 hours more rest than our guys & that showed.
A lot of people also commented on how poor Barry was (agreed) but I read in today's paper that their manager deliberately targeted him & instructed his players to give him no time or space in which to play!
To me those 2 points pretty much explained how the match went as it did. Even then on chances I thought we were well worth a draw (but then again I am a bit one-eyed!)

[AlbionBest]

We won't be competitive in this division next season. It's Premier League or bust.

That’s my thoughts.
This really is our greatest chance to get up for the foreseeable future.
The investment will be down another notch if we fail to go up

[zippyandbungle]

Feel free to offer some insight about the match you attended.

I genuinely wouldn't have given below a six for any of them
Poor ref/Lino decisions, a pretty lucky goal and a few of ours were a bit leggy

But still Rodriguez would have been my worst at 6

[TheJacko2000]

But that's something we might have to hope for.  in the end we will achieved a great deal just to get in the play offs .  Derby, Bristol City and Leeds all have matches in the week and if they win them and we lose to Leeds we will be sitting there with the pack gathering behind us with games in hand.  Derby are 7th and they will be 6 pts behind with 2 games in hand.

One saving grace for us is that Leeds will be playing Tuesday and Friday. That could give us a slight edge on Friday ................................  if the players decide to turn up !!!

Disagree completely, we are still looking up not down. We'll definitely finish in the top 4. We need to try and ensure we finish in the top 2. The chasing pack are playing for 2 places.

[17GD]

I genuinely wouldn't have given below a six for any of them
Poor ref/Lino decisions, a pretty lucky goal and a few of ours were a bit leggy

But still Rodriguez would have been my worst at 6

I agree about some of the decisions, but their goal wasn't really lucky. They just walked down the pitch and scored. We had no fight in us.

Maybe I was a little harsh, looking at some sports websites and their reviews, all between 5 and 6, with the odd 7. But let me ask you this and this is genuine. When a player has a bad game, what is a fair score to give? For me, I go by a general rule of:

8-10 for scoring goals/a number of epic saves/numerous assists/general involvement throughout a winning performance.

6-7 for a mediocre game, nothing particularly good or bad and an average all round performance.

4-5 for a poor display which leads to a loss.

< 3 for zero impact/errors leading to goals/all round debacle leading to loss.

I'd never score someone on effort, because i have no doubt that they all tried their best. But sometimes football is about using your brain and it seems as though some players just don't have a good understanding of the game or what's expected of them.

For instance, a player puts a cross into the box and it's cleared by the first man. First time no one cares. Second time fans start to get a little frustrated. Third time and so on, fans become impatient. If he brings nothing else to the game and failed to find a decent cross in 90 mins, he certainly doesn't deserve credit just for trying. He hasn't done his job.

For me, a number of players didn't turn up to what I considered to be a vital game.

[baggiemart]

Disagree completely, we are still looking up not down. We'll definitely finish in the top 4. We need to try and ensure we finish in the top 2. The chasing pack are playing for 2 places.

You have to be aware of teams below as well.  There is still a lot more football to be played this season. 12 matches left , 36 points.  Its no good thinking no one will catch us up because with the games in hand 3 teams are within one win of us !!

I don't think we will get top 2 now.  I think Norwich will go up because they seem to be having the luck and Sheffield United will go up because they have a good manager with far better tactical awareness.

[ronnie_allen]

I just rewatched the highlights from last night. It's even more shocking than I remembered. For their goal, there's no player within at least 10 yards of their attacking player all the way to our box. Then on later attacks it's the same story.

When Sheffield United won that ball back on the edge of their box, their midfielder was able to amble into midfield. Allow the support players come on the outside with no support. I know he is no sprinter any more but Barry should have made an effort to just pressurise the player.

Also; think Murphy was a big loss for this game. Gayle looked a bit out of place as an out and out winger. Could have possibly got in behind more. All too often on the counters we just hesitated and suddenly they had at least 8 outfielders in behind the ball.

[paulosull]

When Sheffield United won that ball back on the edge of their box, their midfielder was able to amble into midfield. Allow the support players come on the outside with no support. I know he is no sprinter any more but Barry should have made an effort to just pressurise the player.

Also; think Murphy was a big loss for this game. Gayle looked a bit out of place as an out and out winger. Could have possibly got in behind more. All too often on the counters we just hesitated and suddenly they had at least 8 outfielders in behind the ball.

agree about our counter attack too many touches of ball and envitably the wrong pass or a misplaced one

[alex1]

When Sheffield United won that ball back on the edge of their box, their midfielder was able to amble into midfield. Allow the support players come on the outside with no support. I know he is no sprinter any more but Barry should have made an effort to just pressurise the player.

Also; think Murphy was a big loss for this game. Gayle looked a bit out of place as an out and out winger. Could have possibly got in behind more. All too often on the counters we just hesitated and suddenly they had at least 8 outfielders in behind the ball.

I think it was a very well worked goal from Sheff U. You don't very often see a central defender overlapping on the outside in the British game, and that is what caught us out. Commented on by Don G (him again!) at the time. 

[Fritzl Palace]

Disappointed more with the fact it happened about 5 minutes before the goal before we eventually cleared it and then did absolutely nothing to address it thereafter which led to the goal. Having Gayle as a left winger leaves you exposes defensively on that flank and Wilder has completely done DM by exploiting it and ultimately winning them the game, that's the sort of tactical acumen I want from our head coach, to work a teams weaknesses out and exploit them.