[Nocky]

It would appear that we are now officially a 'long ball' team. Do the fans care about this or are we just concerned about getting results regardless of how we achieve them?

Interesting to see how ours and Stokes styles have reversed given all the stick we used to give them.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/31428316.app

The Premier League's long-ball table

Team          Long balls played   Premier League position

West Brom               1,063   14th
Burnley               994   19th
Hull City               852   16th
West Ham               793   8th
Crystal Palace       775   13th
Leicester City       772   20th
QPR                       768   17th
Southampton       755   4th
Newcastle               680   11th
Aston Villa               661   18th
Sunderland       577   15th
Tottenham               558   6th
Man Utd              529   3rd
Everton              515   12th
Stoke City.              504   10th
Swansea City      457   9th
Chelsea              432   1st
Arsenal              395   5th
Liverpool              390   7th
Manchester City      358   2nd

Long pass v long ball - the statistician's definition

According to football statisticians Opta, a 'long pass' is one that is 35 yards or more and is aimed at a particular team-mate. It does not have to be forward.

In contrast, they classify a 'long ball' as a forward pass that is 35 yards or more and is kicked into a space or area on the pitch rather than a precise pass aimed at a particular team-mate.

As such a 'long ball' is perhaps more indicative of a team that likes to regularly lump the ball forward, perhaps towards the opposition's penalty area.

"We agree and separate those two things out. In the Opta world a long pass is one aimed to a specific player (think Pirlo), while a long ball is one played into a specific zone (think "hit the channels")."

[AlbionFan]

I posted this on the Tony Pulis thread earlier:-

Interesting about the long ball stats. I suppose it's down to the methodology used.

The stats used in the link below suggest we are by no means the most reliant team on long balls in the PL.

The stats are based on the number of short passes to long balls ratio. Our ratio is 4.8 short passes made for every long ball, which puts us in 14th position.

Just another perspective to consider.

http://talksport.com/football/revealed-pl-clubs-most-and-least-reliant-long-balls-150211136015?

[stokelad84]

Who cares?

"Opta's head of UK media and content Duncan Alexander pointed out: "There is a vast difference between someone like Andrea Pirlo playing a precise long pass and an agricultural launch forward."

You effectively have a bunch of geeks trying to people how football should and should not be played. If hitting the ball long was so bad nobody would do it. 

[OldburyWBA]

Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool = Excellent long pass

WBA, Stoke, Burnley = Long ball hoof

[Webby]

AI's fault then considering he was in charge of 75% of the games these stats are taken from. So is his football is better than TP's?

Stats can be used anyway you like. Only one that matters is the final result

[WBAinDEVON]

so the long ball teams are the ones who always struggle, unless we find a bargain we cant afford footballers who like to pass a football

[BoingFlyer]

I would be interested in seeing the stats for number of long balls that resulted in a  shot on target.

[Costakiblue]

Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool = Excellent long pass

WBA, Stoke, Burnley = Long ball hoof

Never a truer word written. Stats gone mad!!

[Bilston Dan]

Who cares?

"Opta's head of UK media and content Duncan Alexander pointed out: "There is a vast difference between someone like Andrea Pirlo playing a precise long pass and an agricultural launch forward."

You effectively have a bunch of geeks trying to people how football should and should not be played. If hitting the ball long was so bad nobody would do it. 

If it's effective is it then agricultural? I think there's a sort snobbery around in football that you have to play tika-taka football and be all pleasing on the eye. What if a team doesn't have the players to play it, it's not effective. You play to your strengths don't you. Funny thing is half of these geeks have never played competitve sports.

[baggyman68]

It should be noted, before all the Pulis knockers on here get going, that the majority of the 1000 + long balls were on Alan Irvine's watch.
There weren't too many hoofs forward last night that I noticed apart from clearances from defensive
areas.

[FallOutBoy]

If it's effective is it then agricultural? I think there's a sort snobbery around in football that you have to play tika-taka football and be all pleasing on the eye. What if a team doesn't have the players to play it, it's not effective. You play to your strengths don't you. Funny thing is half of these geeks have never played competitve sports.

If a team doesn't have the players to be playing a passing, possession-based game, then they aren't good enough footballers.

We have a mindset in this country that to be a good footballer you have to be built like a brick shithouse and run around a lot. A lot of clubs now take on youngsters based on their build and try to turn them into good footballers, rather than pick the best youngsters with the ball.

It should not be about who is bigger and stronger, it should be about who is the best footballer, and we are the only country in the world where this debate still goes on. Football should be a test of skill, not about who can run fastest and jump highest.

[halifax_baggie]

If a team doesn't have the players to be playing a passing, possession-based game, then they aren't good enough footballers.

We have a mindset in this country that to be a good footballer you have to be built like a brick shithouse and run around a lot. A lot of clubs now take on youngsters based on their build and try to turn them into good footballers, rather than pick the best youngsters with the ball.

It should not be about who is bigger and stronger, it should be about who is the best footballer, and we are the only country in the world where this debate still goes on. Football should be a test of skill, not about who can run fastest and jump highest.

Unfortunately this attitude has not changed for 30+ years, that's why we import so many players.

Gerrard is the benchmark not gifted players, small, fast, turn on a sixpence, great first touch etc.

[charliemike]

I rather enjoyed last night . Nice to see the players committed for the cause . And the football wasn't that bad . Let's just stay up which a few weeks ago I would have said we don't have a chance , now I can see a glimmer of hope . Just a glimmer .

[Adder]

It's noticeable that all the top 7 in the long ball league are struggling teams - West Ham excepted.
There is some logic here as the chances are that those struggling have less possession and spend more time defending and more likely to hit a long ball to relieve pressure.

As for us - I'm genuinely surprised that we are top this year. People point at Irvine but in my eyes we looked less of a long ball team under him than we did under Hodgson and Clarke.

We certainly racked up a few long balls at Burnley Sunday.

Do goal keepers passes / kicks count ?

[alex1]

I'd like to know how you prove these statistics. Depends how you measure them . Can a computer tell the difference between Bobby Hope knocking a long diagonal pass to someones feet, and some Stokie full back lumping it aimlessley to nobody in particular?

[gerry m]

If it's effective is it then agricultural? I think there's a sort snobbery around in football that you have to play tika-taka football and be all pleasing on the eye. What if a team doesn't have the players to play it, it's not effective. You play to your strengths don't you. Funny thing is half of these geeks have never played competitve sports.

Charles Hughes who oversaw coaching as the director of coaching for the FA (He introduced the long ball tactic) never played or managed at any professional level. He introduced the 'POMO' - Positions Of Maximum Opportunity, and to this day i believe his methods are still used.

[kamarasboot]

Ask Villa fans if they'd prefer to have played 400 more long balls and be in our position, think I know the answer.

These people analyse the stats not the game, I didnt think we looked like a long ball side last night. Like any team we try to play effective football within our means. People read too much into theese types of things,read Guardiolas book the guy is seen as the pass master but actually hates what Tika-taka stands for he wants to make passes in the right areas rather than just for the sake of it, pulis is exactly the same he just doesn't have the wealth of talent at his disposal.

[boing_boing68]

Couldn't care less, goals win games not who has more possession or played shorter passes 

[Sessegod]

Couldn't care less, goals win games not who has more possession or played shorter passes 

I agree it's a results game, doesn't matter how we get there, the long perceived 'Albion Way' is a myth and a crock of, if we want to stay in the prem and earn the big bucks then we have to win at all costs,

[WorcsWBA]

Couldn't care less, goals win games not who has more possession or played shorter passes 

Bodes well then, given that Pulis's teams don't tend to score that many goals 

[FallOutBoy]

I agree it's a results game, doesn't matter how we get there, the long perceived 'Albion Way' is a myth and a crock of, if we want to stay in the prem and earn the big bucks then we have to win at all costs,

Oh yeah, footballs all about the money now. It's not a sport any more, it's not a contest, it's all about earning that money.

[Baggies54]

Fat Sam's retorts about Man U's long ball tactics were well and truly refuted by Van Gaal and the tacticians.....so it would appear that one man's long ball is another man's rupture...

[matt_wba912]

Oh yeah, footballs all about the money now. It's not a sport any more, it's not a contest, it's all about earning that money.

There's nothing less competitive than going into games knowing you will lose because of you're approach and doing nothing about it.

If you're not good enough to beat them at tikka takka beat them at kick and rush or fast counter attacks or whatever means you can employ within the laws of the game.

It's a contest, you play your way and I'll play mine let's see who comes out on top.  The aim however should always be to come out on top.  Unfortunatly that is the nature of professional sport. 

For what it's worth I find the Barcelona style of football unbelievably dull to watch, but fr a few years it was successful, not sure you can say the same anymore

[boing_boing68]

What gets me is how clubs try to play the 'Barcelona' way whilst forgetting that they have players like xavi, iniesta and messi 

I see Swansea passed the ball more times than us and had more possession yet they never looked like scoring.

[foolish]

Against Swansea there was lots of direct balls but no long balls we used to play long balls when we had Shane Long in team, but most the balls Wednesday were played to our strikers feet or heads not over the top to chase down