Author Topic: Slaven Bilic  (Read 670590 times)

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timdon

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #550 on: January 12, 2020, 11:28:59 AM »
Not going to knock the man because he has done wonders for us since he's been here but in there is the problem. Seeing us dominant the ball and opposition for majority of games so far this season, with his never say die attitude culminating in our best performance disposing of Swansea. Any fall in standards and we are on teams back me included, listening to his post match comments he was not happy with what he saw and that is refreshing as he could of praised the opposition to protect his players, he knows he's got a problem and I believe he's good enough coach to get us through this sticky patch.
Agreed. It was very apparent that he was unhappy, the clear implication being that he would be taking steps to improve things, especially in defence, which is where his criticism was aimed. Whether this will be changes in personnel, changes to the zonal marking system, or both, will be very interesting to see.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #551 on: January 12, 2020, 11:30:42 AM »
Jury’s still out for me. There is no doubt he speaks extremely well and he’s very likeable but our inability to defend can’t be overlooked.

If we let slip a 14 point lead I don’t know how you’ll be able to defend him either.

baggie82

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #552 on: January 12, 2020, 02:59:35 PM »
Jury’s still out for me.

Top of the league, played 27, lost 2 and the jury is still out? Jesus Christ. He's done an unbelievable job so far.

zippyandbungle

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #553 on: January 12, 2020, 03:18:15 PM »
Top of the league, played 27, lost 2 and the jury is still out? Jesus Christ. He's done an unbelievable job so far.
And currently in a run of form that would have people calling out
Pullis
Moore
Pardew
I like Slav, but we have to be fair, no one above criticism
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #554 on: January 12, 2020, 04:43:21 PM »
Bilić isn't above criticism or questioning. The phrase the jury is out doesn't really fit though, he's clearly the right man for the job.
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #555 on: January 12, 2020, 04:45:43 PM »
We're top of the league,7 points ahead of 3rd place,with a team that didn't cost a lot
(8m our most expensive sighning) and fans are still moaning cause we're going through a sticky patch which most teams in this league do,think where we were last season,struggling to keep in 3rd or 4th place,and as Slaven said when he joined it might take him 2 seasons,so we are ahead of ourselves in terms of progress, and we've a better squad than last season



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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #556 on: January 12, 2020, 07:04:50 PM »
I’ve not slaughtered him, and I’m not writing him off, and I don’t think anything I’ve said isn’t valid.

Zippy posted about the pre Match Charlton warm up in another threat too and I’ve no reason to dispute what he said, but it’s quite concerning how blasé we are as a team if it’s true.

I hope it works and I’ve not written him off by any means, but he’s proven / achieved nothing yet.

Baggie79

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #557 on: January 12, 2020, 07:12:40 PM »
He said that we would have a sticky patch during the season and with the way this divison works I am sure a lot of us fans expected the same. If our bad patch is one loss and some draws I would take that all day long.

If we are going to lose faith in Slav when we are top of the division we really need to ask ourselves what exactly do we want and expect?
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zippyandbungle

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #558 on: January 12, 2020, 07:19:55 PM »
I’ve not slaughtered him, and I’m not writing him off, and I don’t think anything I’ve said isn’t valid.

Zippy posted about the pre Match Charlton warm up in another threat too and I’ve no reason to dispute what he said, but it’s quite concerning how blasé we are as a team if it’s true.

I hope it works and I’ve not written him off by any means, but he’s proven / achieved nothing yet.
I did indeed
I don’t think anyone has laid in to Slav....but surely people can voice concerns?
Yesterday pre match I definitely saw Diangana pereria and Krov, on their own little triangle playing no bounce...then when you watch them stretch , they don’t look like they can be arsed......on another area of the pitch, brunt was teeing up hegazi for 35-40 yard shots at goal...
Shouldn’t all players be doing proper pre game drills?

If we praised Slav HIGHLY when his decisions were affecting matches in a good way, we should be able to speak when they are not.
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #559 on: January 12, 2020, 07:28:46 PM »
Only criticism I have of Billic is why he keeps persevering with Zonal marking and not giving another goalkeeper a chance.
Combine zonal marking and a goalkeeper that very rarely comes of his line it's been costly and would hope he considers something different. Got to the stage where I expect to concede every time a high ball comes into our box.
Why not try Hegazi and Bartley and go man to man marking and see if it improves us.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #560 on: January 12, 2020, 08:29:47 PM »
When you look at the run of managers we have had, you'd have to go a long way back to find one who was on a par with Billic. The football style has improved beyond recognition, we genuinely play on the front foot, and due to Billic we have been able to attract the likes of Pereira and Diangana to the club.  The players appear to look up to him, and he has a natural authority which is vital if they are to buy into his project. Also, he appears to react promptly in games to situations where changes are needed.
Of course, I'm unhappy with the Charlton performance especially, but I'm confident Billic can see where the problems were. 
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #561 on: January 12, 2020, 08:50:53 PM »
I did indeed
I don’t think anyone has laid in to Slav....but surely people can voice concerns?
Yesterday pre match I definitely saw Diangana pereria and Krov, on their own little triangle playing no bounce...then when you watch them stretch , they don’t look like they can be arsed......on another area of the pitch, brunt was teeing up hegazi for 35-40 yard shots at goal...
Shouldn’t all players be doing proper pre game drills?

If we praised Slav HIGHLY when his decisions were affecting matches in a good way, we should be able to speak when they are not.


Of course. It really annoys me when people throw a strop when people voice their opinions. Slav isn't perfect, Albion aren't perfect and criticism is warranted as long as it's constructive, in fact if ever you want to improve anything in life it's absolutely imperative that you do analyse and you do criticise.

Don't stop posting what you think mate.

I've read your posts relating to yesterdays match and I've taken some of the issues you raised on board. Thanks for raising them.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #562 on: January 13, 2020, 02:43:48 AM »
 :D SB cannot kick the ball for them on the pitch. In all honesty the teams we have played recently have been in "our faces". Charlton did that well with limited resources and I think that's the way teams approach us now, and also heavy tactics,such as shirt pulling,grappling,and take downs.

I think he is doing a fantastic job and will get us up. I actually didn't think we played too badly this week,just a bit unlucky and maybe poor keeping.

TiptonThrostle

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #563 on: January 13, 2020, 02:11:31 PM »
And currently in a run of form that would have people calling out
Pullis
Moore
Pardew
I like Slav, but we have to be fair, no one above criticism

all 3 of their football was absolutely dreadful to watch to start with.

and this is the first tricky period we have been through under Billic and we are not playing well but the difference is we are still picking up points.

we were never going to through 46 games without having  a sticky patch. Pulis, Moore and Pardews sticky patch never really recovered.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #564 on: January 13, 2020, 02:39:36 PM »
Bilic has been a breath of fresh air. However the points raised by Zippy and others are well founded.

For me the things we need to change are (1) zonal marking (it's just not working; we concede far too many goals from set pieces. One of the biggest criticisms of Moore was that we didn't learn from our mistakes but the same could be levelled at Bilic) (2) Not leaving anyone up the field when we defend a corner (3) having both Phillips and Periera standing together when we have a corner (sometimes it will be a good ploy but not all the time) (4) Trying to score the perfect goal by walking it in, have a shot for god's sake!
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baggiebof

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #565 on: January 13, 2020, 03:24:54 PM »
Bilic has been a breath of fresh air. However the points raised by Zippy and others are well founded.

For me the things we need to change are (1) zonal marking (it's just not working; we concede far too many goals from set pieces. One of the biggest criticisms of Moore was that we didn't learn from our mistakes but the same could be levelled at Bilic) (2) Not leaving anyone up the field when we defend a corner (3) having both Phillips and Periera standing together when we have a corner (sometimes it will be a good ploy but not all the time) (4) Trying to score the perfect goal by walking it in, have a shot for god's sake!

1 - I have seen a lot of bashing of 'zonal' marking on here over the last few days, some of which has been unfair (not from you Hull I must add). I saw one comment along the lines of "you always see goals let in as a result of zonal marking" well yeah, that's because it is always highlighted as being a fault of zonal marking. You never hear someone say, that's the problem with the man marking system. I haven't got the time or the will power to start recording goals conceded from corners but would hazard a guess that zonal marking isn't the problem. We conceded shed loads under Mowbray, we marked man for man. I also saw someone say that zonal marking was ok at elite level because the players are better; zonal marking actually benefits smaller teams as it means you can focus your best few defenders of the ball in the most important areas, like Guardiola's Barcelona teams for example. I guess this is just a defence of unfair zonal marking criticism. Regards whether we should change from zonal marking, everyone is right, something must change but for me it is probably a mentality/personnel thing more than a system thing.

2 - I think it is actually a better attacking ploy to have people back behind the ball because when the ball gets cleared, you can press in whatever direction the ball is cleared in, if it goes nowhere near the player up the field then they are just out of the game. You also have forward momentum when attacking the ball when it is cleared. It is very common place for teams to not leave someone up so no problem with this from me. I'll add this in here too as I have seen it elsewhere but I wonder how many times in a season a side that covers both posts have someone on the post saving a goal, not many I'd suggest whereas the additional men can help stop a short corner, cover the edge of the box or help mark but you wouldn't necessarily point out the positive impact of this. Not having men on the post also helps you to attack a ball quicker when cleared and also clear out of the box to squeeze the space for the second phase and the ball back in, it certainly has its plus points.

3 - I agree on this on, not a fan. I understand the logic for free kicks in and around the box as it will influence a defence dropping deep or pushing up depending on whether it is an in or out-swinger but corners isn't the same, only really matters to the keeper.

4 -  Amen.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #566 on: January 13, 2020, 06:39:49 PM »
1 - I have seen a lot of bashing of 'zonal' marking on here over the last few days, some of which has been unfair (not from you Hull I must add). I saw one comment along the lines of "you always see goals let in as a result of zonal marking" well yeah, that's because it is always highlighted as being a fault of zonal marking. You never hear someone say, that's the problem with the man marking system. I haven't got the time or the will power to start recording goals conceded from corners but would hazard a guess that zonal marking isn't the problem. We conceded shed loads under Mowbray, we marked man for man. I also saw someone say that zonal marking was ok at elite level because the players are better; zonal marking actually benefits smaller teams as it means you can focus your best few defenders of the ball in the most important areas, like Guardiola's Barcelona teams for example. I guess this is just a defence of unfair zonal marking criticism. Regards whether we should change from zonal marking, everyone is right, something must change but for me it is probably a mentality/personnel thing more than a system thing.

2 - I think it is actually a better attacking ploy to have people back behind the ball because when the ball gets cleared, you can press in whatever direction the ball is cleared in, if it goes nowhere near the player up the field then they are just out of the game. You also have forward momentum when attacking the ball when it is cleared. It is very common place for teams to not leave someone up so no problem with this from me. I'll add this in here too as I have seen it elsewhere but I wonder how many times in a season a side that covers both posts have someone on the post saving a goal, not many I'd suggest whereas the additional men can help stop a short corner, cover the edge of the box or help mark but you wouldn't necessarily point out the positive impact of this. Not having men on the post also helps you to attack a ball quicker when cleared and also clear out of the box to squeeze the space for the second phase and the ball back in, it certainly has its plus points.

3 - I agree on this on, not a fan. I understand the logic for free kicks in and around the box as it will influence a defence dropping deep or pushing up depending on whether it is an in or out-swinger but corners isn't the same, only really matters to the keeper.

4 -  Amen.

You may well be right about the amount of goals we concede from set pieces being more of a mentality thing rather than because of zonal marking.

For me I think having a man staying up near the halfway line when we are defending corners means that the opposition has to leave 2 playes back to stop any break away. Also if we have a man up the pitch it means they have a chance of picking up any clearance, by not having anyone up we are giving the ball back. There have been plenty of times this season when we have cleared a corner to no one and the ball has come straight back meaning we still have to defend.
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zippyandbungle

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #567 on: January 13, 2020, 10:02:35 PM »
You may well be right about the amount of goals we concede from set pieces being more of a mentality thing rather than because of zonal marking.

For me I think having a man staying up near the halfway line when we are defending corners means that the opposition has to leave 2 playes back to stop any break away. Also if we have a man up the pitch it means they have a chance of picking up any clearance, by not having anyone up we are giving the ball back. There have been plenty of times this season when we have cleared a corner to no one and the ball has come straight back meaning we still have to defend.
And
The attacking team can throw all their defenders in to our box....even if we get 5he ball away from the initial corner, they are then still up for the second wave .
We should leave 2 up Phillips and Diangana .....it would really take the pressure off our defence
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #568 on: January 13, 2020, 11:07:21 PM »
For me do I think things are perfect? Far from it. Do I think slav is the right man for the job definitely. Do I think if I question things on this form in particular that I will be shouted down.... 100% yes.

Slav is the man I want in charge but that doesn’t make him immune to criticism or mistakes, what frustrates me is the way any criticism is immediately regarded as ‘your moaning you should be at the Wo1ve5’ responses.

Overall nobody can doubt what Slav has done, fantastic job so far to put us in the position we are in, however and judging by what I have seen and heard of the man he would be the first to admit their have been mistakes and they need putting right.

In Slav I 100% trust but in the ‘happy clapper, don’t dare criticise anything brigade’ then I’m not interested.

We will go up, Slav will get it right but there will be mistakes and he will be the first to say that I’m sure.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #569 on: January 14, 2020, 09:52:30 AM »
For me do I think things are perfect? Far from it. Do I think slav is the right man for the job definitely. Do I think if I question things on this form in particular that I will be shouted down.... 100% yes.

Slav is the man I want in charge but that doesn’t make him immune to criticism or mistakes, what frustrates me is the way any criticism is immediately regarded as ‘your moaning you should be at the Wo1ve5’ responses.

Overall nobody can doubt what Slav has done, fantastic job so far to put us in the position we are in, however and judging by what I have seen and heard of the man he would be the first to admit their have been mistakes and they need putting right.

In Slav I 100% trust but in the ‘happy clapper, don’t dare criticise anything brigade’ then I’m not interested.

We will go up, Slav will get it right but there will be mistakes and he will be the first to say that I’m sure.

Can't see any responses of that kind at all. A number of people , myself included, are asking questions which have had reasoned responses.
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #570 on: January 14, 2020, 10:16:37 AM »
Half way point of this season and he's done an exceptional job. The point is though we're halfway and as fans many of us see the team and squad needs help. Last season at his point, we didn't get it right with the players we brought in (Murphy for Barnes - shudder) so hopefully this year, we can add a couple of quality first team starters plus a couple of squad players to an already strong team/ squad.I don't think there's too much wrong other than (simply!??) tightening up at the back a bit and having someone who can score when we're struggling to create something. Sounds so simple........... :P

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #571 on: January 14, 2020, 04:30:03 PM »
And
The attacking team can throw all their defenders in to our box....even if we get 5he ball away from the initial corner, they are then still up for the second wave .
We should leave 2 up Phillips and Diangana .....it would really take the pressure off our defence

I remember in Rondon's first game away to Watford who were newly promoted. Anytime we got a corner; they place three of their players spread out on the half-way line. We seemed to be quite confused for a while and ended up having to significantly reduce the number and quality of the players we were attacking he corner with.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #572 on: January 14, 2020, 09:18:23 PM »
I've always thought we should leave at least one player up at corners. That said many people's former favourite sly old fox Roy rarely did. It used to drive me barmy. Mr Hodgson hasn't had a bad career though......
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #573 on: January 20, 2020, 10:11:57 PM »
Never been fully sold on Bilic , said that a few months back too .
I didn't and still don't think theres enough goals in our front three and midfield base to justify the 4 2 3 1 with a limited forward , it was always going to be a case of Phillips vanishing , Pereira doesn't have a record of scoring and Diang was a bit unknown .
Lone forward we are left with a slow Austin , Zohare doesn't look up to it and H.R.K is H.R.K even in a better bit of form.
Add that to full backs out of position and weak defending of set pieces it looks like Bilic has a half built side despite the good start.
Not convinced.
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #574 on: January 20, 2020, 10:17:31 PM »
But what else can he do really?! There's a couple of arguments like Austin>Zohore & why change shape after 90 seconds but he can't help the injuries to Diangana, Gibbs and Ferguson.

Some of the existing squad was awful quite frankly. Townsend is woeful.
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