[LiamTheBaggie]

the problem we have as a nation is we don't have a good enough strikeforce, was talking about this today at work and we couldn't name 5 strikers we would take.

I wouldn't stop just there mate.

I guess you could include midfielders and defenders in that list of not being good enough.

I do agree you with you though that our striking department is looking incredibly bare. It's made even worse when injuries occur.

[boing_boing68]

I wouldn't stop just there mate.

I guess you could include midfielders and defenders in that list of not being good enough.

I do agree you with you though that our striking department is looking incredibly bare. It's made even worse when injuries occur.

yeah you have a good point with the midfielders aswell, the only real good players we have who could win a match are Hart,  Wilshire, Lampard and Rooney,

[kris_boing]

Watching the under 21s last night was as painful as watching the seniors. Players who cannot pass a ball or control it.


Mind you how are we supposed to move forward to try and catch up with the Germans and the Spanish when we have Hodgson and Pearce coaching. Awful appointments by the FA.

[ronnie_allen]

Just to clarify, that the Dutch did win the European Championships in 1988. Not quite the World Cup but just a little over half as long ago as 1966.
As some have stated, the media will overreact to the slightest little turn of a game to boost their own sales. Euro 96 and Italia 90 are seen as two of the recent successes but am pretty sure  the knives were out after the first games against Switzerland and Rep. of Ireland respectively. Especially for Robson in 90 after the disastorous Euro 88 campaign.
Also, Italia '90 may be seen as a gallant heroic effort, with a cruel penalty defeat to Germany but taken from another perspective, out of 6/7 matches, the only team England beat over 90 minutes was Egypt.

Anyway a summer cold has me spluttering away. Think England will qualify and feel that a quarter-final would be just about a par result.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Watching the under 21s last night was as painful as watching the seniors. Players who cannot pass a ball or control it.


Mind you how are we supposed to move forward to try and catch up with the Germans and the Spanish when we have Hodgson and Pearce coaching. Awful appointments by the FA.

And I assume some of those shall eventually be integrated into senior level. 

Stuart Pearce labelled them as "awful" last night. He's out of contract after this tournament.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Very good article here from Henry Winter. Hard to disagree with what Stuart Pearce says to be honest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/10104854/England-Under-21-coach-Stuart-Pearce-leads-calls-for-mandatory-selection-after-Euro-2013-defeat-by-Italy.html

The worrying line for me: “There are one or two players who do not want to give their summers up, whichever way you look at it, to go and represent their country,” - Quite frankly a disgusting attitude and one which sums up the culture of the English game and the contempt they share for their national side.

[Legend]

Very good article here from Henry Winter. Hard to disagree with what Stuart Pearce says to be honest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/10104854/England-Under-21-coach-Stuart-Pearce-leads-calls-for-mandatory-selection-after-Euro-2013-defeat-by-Italy.html

The worrying line for me: “There are one or two players who do not want to give their summers up, whichever way you look at it, to go and represent their country,” - Quite frankly a disgusting attitude and one which sums up the culture of the English game and the lack of contempt they share for their national side.

Doesn't surprise me to be honest. The spanish players for example live and breathe football. What's even more shocking is that our U21's still play hoofball. How are we meant to get technically better to compete with other nations when our youngsters are not being taught to be comfortable on the ball and control football games. I don't think results should be regarded as important in Under 21 football. It should be a way to implement a good style of football that these youngsters can get used to and then bring these youngsters through to the national side together while keeping the same style. I don't expect us to play like Spain but we can't go on being stuck in the dark ages. We need to build the team around Jack Wilshere. As much as I think he's an arrogant knob he's a superb player.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Players need to be taught at youth levels the importance of retaining possession and the ability to be calm in possession of the ball, that process should be ready for the U21s who shall then prepare them for senior football. However, just look at some of the names in that side on Wednesday. It just screamed average which has typified the English game over the last how many years? Jordan Henderson and Jonjo Shelvey? The English game just cries effort and industry and very little quality to supplement it. Maybe I'm over-reacting but we are light years behind some of these country in terms of technical ability.

I also think the culture of this country does us no favours whatsoever. We seem to produce footballers who receive far too much too early and therefore they tend to stagnate. Their rewards should be lowered and be made to earn their rewards by making careers for themselves and not just being given the rewards as they appear too now. The culture for English players seems to be to make money, lead an unhealthy lifestyle . The rumours surrounding Jack Wilshere's lifestyle continue to be at the fore-front with many believing that his "injuries" aren't all they appear and would you be so surprised?

My personal opinion and approach for the way forward should see Education schools. Take youngsters away from their comfort zone, provide them with the basics of the education system and work on the technical and tactical methods creating innovating training systems, training sessions and most importantly playing football matches on small pitches. Not these great pitches we see now which see youngsters these days sprinting 60 yards before making a pass. We should be preparing them for football careers but also futures in coaching. In addition, they need to experience the cultures and lifestyles of other nations. It's OK playing matches in this country against players of roughly the same calibre and make up. Take them abroad into countries like Spain, Italy and Germany and organise matches with similar age groups. We don't see enough English players experiencing other ways of living - how many English players have plied their trade in a foreign country? Owen Hargreeves and Joey Barton spring to mind with neither having careers for their national side, one due to injury and the other for being a knob. Let them learn and experience other cultures and the demands which are set in their country. Of course, this is going to happen so I'm kidding myself and we'll have to suffer with more average, garbage being produced as the likes of Germany and Spain continue to produce technically gifted players we can only dream of.

Edit: I would also have changes into the rules of the Premier League, clubs academies and general change in the FA too but again, this won't happen either.

[WBAinDEVON]

What about we stop building on playing fields

[The Black Pearl]

Good results for England tonight, back in our own hands.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Tonight's results will have helped. Ukraine are the dark horses in this group for me. Not only do we have to face them in their own back yard but they have two games against San Marino which is a more or less guaranteed six points. We still have to face Montenegro and Poland. Tonight will have helped but I'm not counting my chickens yet.

Hope the U21's can pull off a victory against Norway too. That game is a must win to keep their qualification hopes alive.

[Legend]

Ukraine will be a very tough game, we just about nicked a win against them at the Euros. It's going to be very close, I really can't see us winning all the remaining games.

[WBAinDEVON]

So we have been given a lifeline. Get a draw in th Ukraine and win our 3 remaining home games we should be there

[kris_boing]

Not sure I see last night's result as a lifeline. A draw would have been better.  The way we are playing and the confidence that result will now give Ukraine means we are now in a 3 way fight instead of a two. Before yesterday we had the relative comfort of the playoffs and now we don't.

[Legend]

Under 21's were awful. Pearce OUT Southgate IN

[LiamTheBaggie]

Under 21's were awful. Pearce OUT Southgate IN

Hopefully not.

Let's not have yes men who tick the boxes.

Let's try and appoint a coach who is modern and has achieved something in his coaching career - and now I'm struggling..

[kris_boing]

I really think we should get away from the 'names' like Pearce and Southgate.  Use someone who has worked with younger players and developed them.  These players may well be (wrongly) millionaires but they are still developing players and should be treated and coached as such.
 
Ashworth should look at successful youth coaches from the academies and employ those and make sure they can coach and concentrate on passing the ball rather than hoofing it.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Unemployed and not wanted by Man United (David Moyes);

Rene Meulensteen - Have doubts as to whether he would want the job but he's exactly the sort of person the FA should be looking at but asking him to fix the U21s isn't the issue really. It needs fixing at lower age groups.

[WBAinDEVON]

Shambolic England u21s

[jonny]

Just noticed the line ups from the Euro U21 final in 2009. Look where those players are now and the gulf in quality:

6 of those Germany players play for one of the top 4 teams in Europe and are key players in their current national team. Arguably only one of ours is good enough for our fist XI.

Germany U21: Neuer, Beck, Howedes, Boateng, Boenisch, Hummels (Aogo 83), Johnson (Schwaab 68), Castro, Khedira, Ozil (Schmelzer 89), Wagner.


England U21: Loach, Cranie (Gardner 80), Richards, Onuoha (Mancienne 46), Gibbs, Cattermole, Muamba (Rodwell 77), Noble, Milner, Walcott, Johnson.

[Legend]

It's weird seeing Milner in that team. I was watching Premier League years from around 2003 and Milner was on it scoring for Leeds. Really good player no doubt but was hyped up at the time to be a future star for England.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Germany U21: Neuer, Beck, Howedes, Boateng, Boenisch, Hummels (Aogo 83), Johnson (Schwaab 68), Castro, Khedira, Ozil (Schmelzer 89), Wagner.


England U21: Loach, Cranie (Gardner 80), Richards, Onuoha (Mancienne 46), Gibbs, Cattermole, Muamba (Rodwell 77), Noble, Milner, Walcott, Johnson.

That is frightening. Well and truly frightening.

(No point winding yourself up Liam) 

[Sessegod]

They should give the job to glenn hoddle, since he left the England job he has been developing youth and trying to bring players on.

More importantly England need to develop a style of football that they see as being successful and bring it through all age groups. They had no problem doing that in the 80's when they adopted hoofball as the way forward, which is still why we are struggling today.

They also need to look at Cricket and Rugby, they have been getting their houses in order for years and now produce talent and more importantly depth of talent. Same as cycling and rowing.

The FA continue to be pushed aside by the EPL and our youth do not get the chance. The homegrown under 21 rule about minimum players is a joke as much as the FFP, big clubs tend to buy the better UK players and don't play them to make up the required quota.

The under 21's who went to Brazil for a urine poor waste of time friendly should have been getting tournament experience, Pearce isn't to blame it's the whole system.

DA has a big job on his hands but lets face it he'll be shackled and nothing will be done.

On a final point, people who aren't west brom fans are already saying they are fed up with Roy's teams drawing games, I have told them to get used to it. It keeps you in the Prem but won't win you a world cup, unless you are Italy.

Rant over

[Legend]

Another dismal display by the U21's, this time against the mighty Israel.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Embarrassing to leave the tournament having finished bottom of the group with 0 points and only managing one goal in our three fixtures - a goal which came from the penalty spot. Stuart Pearce cannot survive this and I expect the FA to not renew his contract when he returns from the tournament, thank him for his efforts and send him packing - although, knowing that farce he shall probably be given a new deal.