[paulosull]

Serious question for all those wanting Guochuan Lai to sell up and go, name me the owner you want and who would want to take us on?

And then tell us how this new owner, you've identified, will run a Championship Club with the issues we are currently faced with?

Remember, most wanted JP out as well.

American investor was recently interested in taking club over from lai but he wouldn't sell so there are interested parties out there. All I'd want is reasonable investment in club for the long haul.

[AlbionFan]

American investor was recently interested in taking club over from lai but he wouldn't sell so there are interested parties out there. All I'd want is reasonable investment in club for the long haul.

Obviously, the American was a cheap skate and didn't make an offer Lai could refuse.

So you don't have a nomination then and you would accept "reasonable investment" (that begs lots of other questions to you) from anyone who said he'd put money into the club. Now, tell me how you would ensure he is as good as his word?

[divinewind]

Problem is Lai paid well over the odds for us, and no one will pay that much for us now. Make no mistake, Jeremiah stitched us up good and proper.

[AlbionFan]

Yes, JP had this naive Chinese businessman, who is a self made millionaire/billionaire, in his office and with the add of smoke and mirrors and nothing up his sleeve and not an accountant / financial advisor in sight and not a balance sheet to be seen sold a financially well run club, debt free and a going concern with access to a revenue stream worth millions of pounds to him, robbery, daylight robbery.

West Bromwich Albion was worth what someone was prepared to pay!

[wimbledon baggie]

Problem is Lai paid well over the odds for us, and no one will pay that much for us now. Make no mistake, Jeremiah stitched us up good and proper.

He certainly did! Our value has probably halved with relegation. Don't be surprised if he keeps £50m of the parachute payments to ease the pain. He needs to get us promoted within 2 seasons otherwise he will be facing serious losses.

Does anyone know what our flex down wage bill is now?

[AlbionFan]

He certainly did! Our value has probably halved with relegation. Don't be surprised if he keeps £50m of the parachute payments to ease the pain. He needs to get us promoted within 2 seasons otherwise he will be facing serious losses.

Does anyone know what our flex down wage bill is now?

1. And what was that value?

2. And how exactly will he be able to do that?

3. Agreed on the highlighted point about promotion

[paulosull]

. He needs to get us promoted within 2 seasons otherwise he will be facing serious losses.

as long as club is being run with in its means then he can just sit on his investment.

[wimbledon baggie]

1. And what was that value?

2. And how exactly will he be able to do that?

3. Agreed on the highlighted point about promotion

1. Rumoured JP got close to £200m, now worth £100m max

2. Parachute payment belongs to Palm (or whatever vehicle owns the club), any income can be diverted to pay off directors loans/ company loans. We assumed he paid cash but there may be finance loans in the background that have an interest rate to repay each year.

[wimbledon baggie]

as long as club is being run with in its means then he can just sit on his investment.

Provided he paid cash for the business. If we don't get promoted during the parachute period he will have to majorly cut his cloth to keep the club running on the level and not at a loss. losses can be absorbed by the bigger Palm company but if he is not a football man he might not fancy subsidising it.

[paulosull]

1. Rumoured JP got close to £200m, now worth £100m max

2. Parachute payment belongs to Palm (or whatever vehicle owns the club), any income can be diverted to pay off directors loans/ company loans. We assumed he paid cash but there may be finance loans in the background that have an interest rate to repay each year.

closer to 50 million and falling with playing assets contracts running out.

[wimbledon baggie]

closer to 50 million and falling with playing assets contracts running out.

Would not disagree with that. Its a massive loss he is looking at. Jenkins is being paid to plug that very big hole.

[Sted1990]

Where was our free drink 😂

[paulosull]

Where was our free drink 😂

need.one after today's announcement 

[AlbionFan]

1. Rumoured JP got close to £200m, now worth £100m max

2. Parachute payment belongs to Palm (or whatever vehicle owns the club), any income can be diverted to pay off directors loans/ company loans. We assumed he paid cash but there may be finance loans in the background that have an interest rate to repay each year.

1. Hear say, only JP and Lai know and how do you know how much the club is worth now?

2. So, that contradicts your previous statement below

“Don't be surprised if he keeps £50m of the parachute payments to ease the pain”

[divinewind]

JP could have beheaded a shareholder in front of the Brummie, and still some people would say well, he probably deserved it.

[AlbionFan]

And some have idiosyncratic beliefs

[overseas baggie]

1. Rumoured JP got close to £200m, now worth £100m max

2. Parachute payment belongs to Palm (or whatever vehicle owns the club), any income can be diverted to pay off directors loans/ company loans. We assumed he paid cash but there may be finance loans in the background that have an interest rate to repay each year.

No it doesn’t belong to Palm. Palm is the shareholder.  It belongs to the actual company that owns the club. It cannot be “diverted” except to repay debt owed BY THE CLUB, not to pay debt owed BY the shareholder.  Company law prevents that. Company law also requires that dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves (effectively accumulated profits).  There aren’t any. 

Many people seem to assume that shareholders can asset-strip, sell players and pocket the proceeds (including parachute payments).  They can ONLY do that if the club owes them money (ie Villa who owed a fortune to Lerner and Sunderland who owed a big sum to Ellis Short who had both loaned money to those clubs).  Lai has not loaned money to this club. He is not owed money by the club.  He might personally owe money to Peace but that’s his own debt, not the club’s debt.

I keep saying it - Lai’s best chance of getting back his c£200m investment is for us to get promoted and then to sell the club.

So why is he not investing any of his money?  Two possibilities. One is that and his consortium don’t have any money available to inject. The second is that he can’t because of STCC (Short Term Cost Constraint) rules - very simply our wage bill leaves no room to buy players. Yes we could afford transfer fees, but we obviously have to pay wages to any new signings.  Without high earners like Chadli, Dawson, Gibbs, Barry and Rodriguez leaving, we don’t have enough wage headroom despite the flexdown contacts and despite GK, Sturridge, Foster, Rondon, Evans and GMac all having left.

[Baggies]

Serious question for all those wanting Guochuan Lai to sell up and go, name me the owner you want and who would want to take us on?

And then tell us how this new owner, you've identified, will run a Championship Club with the issues we are currently faced with?

Remember, most wanted JP out as well.

Genuine question. Had you heard of Villa's new owners before they took over?

[paulosull]

No it doesn’t belong to Palm. Palm is the shareholder.  It belongs to the actual company that owns the club. It cannot be “diverted” except to repay debt owed BY THE CLUB, not to pay debt owed BY the shareholder.  Company law prevents that. Company law also requires that dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves (effectively accumulated profits).  There aren’t any. 

Many people seem to assume that shareholders can asset-strip, sell players and pocket the proceeds (including parachute payments).  They can ONLY do that if the club owes them money (ie Villa who owed a fortune to Lerner and Sunderland who owed a big sum to Ellis Short who had both loaned money to those clubs).  Lai has not loaned money to this club. He is not owed money by the club.  He might personally owe money to Peace but that’s his own debt, not the club’s debt.

I keep saying it - Lai’s best chance of getting back his c£200m investment is for us to get promoted and then to sell the club.

So why is he not investing any of his money?  Two possibilities. One is that and his consortium don’t have any money available to inject. The second is that he can’t because of STCC (Short Term Cost Constraint) rules - very simply our wage bill leaves no room to buy players. Yes we could afford transfer fees, but we obviously have to pay wages to any new signings.  Without high earners like Chadli, Dawson, Gibbs, Barry and Rodriguez leaving, we don’t have enough wage headroom despite the flexdown contacts and despite GK, Sturridge, Foster, Rondon, Evans and GMac all having left.

thought all playing staff had 50 percent flex down in contracts so the most players are on is 30 grand max and any new incomings will be on significantly less than that. Newcastle are believed to be paying Gayles wages.

[wimbledon baggie]

No it doesn’t belong to Palm. Palm is the shareholder.  It belongs to the actual company that owns the club. It cannot be “diverted” except to repay debt owed BY THE CLUB, not to pay debt owed BY the shareholder.  Company law prevents that. Company law also requires that dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves (effectively accumulated profits).  There aren’t any. 

Many people seem to assume that shareholders can asset-strip, sell players and pocket the proceeds (including parachute payments).  They can ONLY do that if the club owes them money (ie Villa who owed a fortune to Lerner and Sunderland who owed a big sum to Ellis Short who had both loaned money to those clubs).  Lai has not loaned money to this club. He is not owed money by the club.  He might personally owe money to Peace but that’s his own debt, not the club’s debt.

I keep saying it - Lai’s best chance of getting back his c£200m investment is for us to get promoted and then to sell the club.






So why is he not investing any of his money?  Two possibilities. One is that and his consortium don’t have any money available to inject. The second is that he can’t because of STCC (Short Term Cost Constraint) rules - very simply our wage bill leaves no room to buy players. Yes we could afford transfer fees, but we obviously have to pay wages to any new signings.  Without high earners like Chadli, Dawson, Gibbs, Barry and Rodriguez leaving, we don’t have enough wage headroom despite the flexdown contacts and despite GK, Sturridge, Foster, Rondon, Evans and GMac all having left.

I agree with your final statement.

Like you suggest, this is fiendishly complicated. If you set up a group of companies you can lend money freely within the group in a very tax efficient way. Loans to other member companies within the group can also be made ( I run a group of companies). It is impossible to say how he structured the deal and who actually owns what within his own group finances (this brings in the whole discussion of the worthiness/concerns of overseas investors buying football clubs). I'd venture to say that even if we could read the documents they would be so complicated that we would not fully understand them.

Bottom line is he needs to employ people on the board who understand football and know how to put together a successful squad. You only have to look 10 miles down the road to see what they are trying to build....

[geoff]

We need to hear from him on a more regular basis & in that way the club & fans can move forwards united & together

Come on Mr. Lai show us your are the leader we hoped you would be when you brought the club.

[overseas baggie]

thought all playing staff had 50 percent flex down in contracts so the most players are on is 30 grand max and any new incomings will be on significantly less than that. Newcastle are believed to be paying Gayles wages.

Am not absolutely certain that every player had a flexdown contract, but even 50% of £60k/week is a very big wage for the Championship.

Newcastle only paying part of Gayle’s wages I understand.

[overseas baggie]

I agree with your final statement.

Like you suggest, this is fiendishly complicated. If you set up a group of companies you can lend money freely within the group in a very tax efficient way. Loans to other member companies within the group can also be made ( I run a group of companies). It is impossible to say how he structured the deal and who actually owns what within his own group finances (this brings in the whole discussion of the worthiness/concerns of overseas investors buying football clubs). I'd venture to say that even if we could read the documents they would be so complicated that we would not fully understand them.

Bottom line is he needs to employ people on the board who understand football and know how to put together a successful squad. You only have to look 10 miles down the road to see what they are trying to build....

Even if you lend money between companies in a group, there was no significant debt when the club was bought by him, and any loans made by the club for him to take money out would still be an asset of the club and a liability of his. It really isn’t easy to strip money out of the club except by dividend or by repayment of debt. Dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves, and there was/is no significant debt.

[kev]

Pity fosun international won't sell wolves and buy us instead 😊... Worring thing is  im not sure  if we would be a better investment to them.. Not looking good for us compared to wolves 🙁

[wimbledon baggie]

Even if you lend money between companies in a group, there was no significant debt when the club was bought by him, and any loans made by the club for him to take money out would still be an asset of the club and a liability of his. It really isn’t easy to strip money out of the club except by dividend or by repayment of debt. Dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves, and there was/is no significant debt.

All what you say is correct. He can't use the club like a cash machine and just take the money out. But if I lend money to a group member to buy a property and do a development, whilst that money is still an asset of the company, it is tied up in that development until the building is sold. Lai could use parachute money to loan to another part of his business depriving the club of capital in the short/medium term. This is bad enough with a UK based business but is far more risky with an overseas venture.

We now have an international version of JP who in no way could be described as a fan with emotional attachment to us.

Lai needs to make clear statements of intent...but I'm not holding my breath.