Author Topic: Under 23's / Academy Thread  (Read 649278 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

KYA

  • WBA Coach

  • Online
  • ******

  • 5793
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3700 on: February 03, 2024, 09:43:42 AM »
Tell me about it. Villa supporter in our local gleefully informed me last night we're their feeder club. I can't repeat my rebuttal to the contrary in full but my reply was swift. Very.
Dreadful, something like that would be the stuff of nightmares for me apart from the instant gratification of spreading claret everywhere I would have to avoid his smirking face for the rest of my days.

HampshireBaggie

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3461
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3701 on: February 05, 2024, 12:24:19 PM »
Is Reyes Cleary out for the season?

SmethDan

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 8565
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3702 on: February 05, 2024, 12:30:53 PM »
Is Reyes Cleary out for the season?

Think I read he's out until April. This was back when he got injured again. Don't have a link
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

gazberg

  • WBA Manager

  • Online
  • *******

  • 17232
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3703 on: February 05, 2024, 12:32:57 PM »
Is Reyes Cleary out for the season?

He posted on his instagram something alluding to it being a big week or 2 coming up, a week or 2 ago! He's now took it down though.

HampshireBaggie

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3461
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3704 on: February 05, 2024, 05:12:59 PM »
Thanks, we’ve just signed a striker on loan from West Ham who scored for fun in the youth leagues so I don’t see why Cleary couldn’t offer the same considering he does the same (when he’s fit).

gazberg

  • WBA Manager

  • Online
  • *******

  • 17232
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3705 on: February 05, 2024, 06:32:52 PM »
Thanks, we’ve just signed a striker on loan from West Ham who scored for fun in the youth leagues so I don’t see why Cleary couldn’t offer the same considering he does the same (when he’s fit).

Last i heard official was what Dan said i think, back in April or thereabouts

BalisPen

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1675
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3706 on: February 07, 2024, 07:20:48 PM »
I may have missed it, but why no mention of how Ashworth is doing at Bolton?

He's scored in his last two games.

Hunnington Baggie

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3849
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3707 on: February 07, 2024, 07:24:10 PM »
I may have missed it, but why no mention of how Ashworth is doing at Bolton?

He's scored in his last two games.
because surely that should be in the out on loan thread?

OldburyWBA

  • Administrator
  • WBA Chairman

  • Online
  • *****

  • 41806
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3708 on: February 07, 2024, 07:59:11 PM »
https://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=9232.0

His goal a week ago has been mentioned
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

OldburyWBA

  • Administrator
  • WBA Chairman

  • Online
  • *****

  • 41806
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3709 on: March 12, 2024, 12:08:25 PM »
Another one gone to the villa Keilan Quinn, 16 years old, deal around £1m

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-west-brom-quinn-28800322
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

lewisant

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Coach

  • Online
  • *****

  • 7023
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3710 on: March 12, 2024, 05:17:52 PM »
Another one gone to the villa Keilan Quinn, 16 years old, deal around £1m

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-west-brom-quinn-28800322

I used to get angry. Then I laughed. Now I just shake my head and don’t bother reading.
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

SmethDan

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 8565
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3711 on: March 12, 2024, 06:16:17 PM »
Another one gone to the villa Keilan Quinn, 16 years old, deal around £1m

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-west-brom-quinn-28800322

Beyond teeth scratchingly irritating some time ago.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

Dan

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 7370
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3712 on: March 12, 2024, 06:16:44 PM »
Difficult to tell at this point whether Villa even care about the signings or if its a "lovers scorned" situation from Hopcroft and Harrison. Their level of recruitment from our academy is unprecedented.

johnny Cash

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6765
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3713 on: March 12, 2024, 06:31:42 PM »
The amount they spend is inconsequential and the potential rewards from poaching from us are high but when you consider Philogene, Chukwuemeka, both Ramseys and Archer (just of the top of my head) they’ve done far better out their own than they’ve got from us. Maybe we should try and get who Hopcroft and Harrison replaced.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2024, 07:34:06 PM by johnny Cash »

Hunnington Baggie

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3849
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3714 on: March 12, 2024, 06:59:28 PM »
The amount they spend is inconsequential and the potential rewards from poaching from us are high but they’ve when you consider Philogene, Chukwuemeka, both Ramseys and Archer (just of the top of my head) they’ve done far better out their own than they’ve got from us. Maybe we should try and get who Hopcroft and Harrison replaced.
we stated to, if he wasn’t injured Ruben Shakpoke would be the main striker for the U21’s this year.

Barrington

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1559
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3715 on: March 14, 2024, 08:47:13 AM »
I think that this bizarre fascination of Villa with taking loads of our kids season on season needs looking at. It's just coming across as petty and almost like a targeted attack now. Surely there should be a cap in place of the number of kids that can be taken from one youth set-up to another over a certain number of years to stop this kind of thing. It would potentially stop these bigger clubs from just stock-piling kids and hurting their careers, if nothing else.

On just a personal level, it just comes across as petty and immature of those at the Villa academy to keep doing this. They must be absolutely pathetic and insecure people.

NJS

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1383
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3716 on: March 14, 2024, 09:09:07 AM »
They're deliberately draining us of talent.  Obviously they see a future where we don't exist and they absorb all our catchment.  I like to see someone sports journo interview Hopcroft and Harrison and try to expose  their motives.
Hales Owen born. 
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has. Rene Descartes

SmethDan

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 8565
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3717 on: March 14, 2024, 09:23:25 AM »
They're deliberately draining us of talent.  Obviously they see a future where we don't exist and they absorb all our catchment.  I like to see someone sports journo interview Hopcroft and Harrison and try to expose  their motives.

A number of our academy players have come from what Villa consider to be 'their' catchment areas over the years. When Harrison was joined by Hopcroft one of them came out with a statement along the lines of 'we will never lose talent to other academies from 'our' areas again'. I posted at the time that it was a mission statement and it was.

Their motive isn't necessarily to destroy Albion's academy but if we're collateral damage while they try and dominate the local recruitment scene then so be it as far as they're concerned. Tell you what though, they must have absolutely despised Luke Dowling.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

hardtobeat

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 5531
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3718 on: March 14, 2024, 10:01:45 AM »
Harrison has been left what 4 years or so ? If they are now filching 16/ 17 year olds and younger I can’t see that leaving to work with him is a direct result of how good he is/was there has to be more in play I.e agents , accountants with brown envelopes for Daddy etc.
Baggie for life not just for Xmas

SmethDan

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 8565
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3719 on: March 14, 2024, 10:20:03 AM »
Harrison has been left what 4 years or so ? If they are now filching 16/ 17 year olds and younger I can’t see that leaving to work with him is a direct result of how good he is/was there has to be more in play I.e agents , accountants with brown envelopes for Daddy etc.

I'm referring to the wider picture of youth recruitment rather than than the specifics of whose mommy or daddy has been tapped up this week. It's real. It's happening and it's an ongoing process.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

Jeremy Roland Peace

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1171
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3720 on: March 14, 2024, 10:22:17 AM »
they will still have contacts at all the junior levels of training camps they set up while here. so i would expect it to carry on for another 2 or 3 years at least.

the one benefit however is they can only have so many in an academy until it starts to have a negative effect so it will balance out over time.

and how many academy players actually make the grade, with the vile now pushing for champions league the level to make the team has just increased even more.

johnny Cash

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6765
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3721 on: March 14, 2024, 01:35:41 PM »
Harrison has been left what 4 years or so ? If they are now filching 16/ 17 year olds and younger I can’t see that leaving to work with him is a direct result of how good he is/was there has to be more in play I.e agents , accountants with brown envelopes for Daddy etc.

Hopcroft was usually the one pictured with 8/9/10 year old's signing, so players he signed could still be as young as 12/13. Money will still be the big draw though I would have thought.  I think there is at least one more who will be going to Villa, which will at least in part be due to Hopcroft. I won't name him but I think he is 16 now and if its going to happen it'll be in the next 12 months.

Albion79

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1889
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3722 on: March 14, 2024, 02:33:22 PM »
I am not too bothered about youngsters going into another academy, so much changes between early and late teens, there will always be the odd one who goes onto better things but the vast majority dont really progess, what they do is cash in now whilst their potential and reputation is high, football is a business, its not like it was 30 years ago, a lot of lads have 'advisors' from early school age, i dont like it as football should be about enjoyment especially at that age but thats the way it is.

To give an example i am mates with the dad of one of the kids who have gone to Villa (i wont name him) both are Albion fans and he enjoyed being at the Albion but Villa approached him, he went there and they blew us out the water. He said Albion are very good with the resources they have but Villa just flexed their power, the way he was looked after, what he was promised, how he was made to feel, his head was turned.

He said Harrison and Hopcroft were both top blokes and done as they promised they would (i have worked with Steve Hopcroft and he is a good bloke) but to give an idea what we are up against, my mates son at 17, earns double what his dad does, each year that increases until he is 21.

My mate said he wanted his son to stay at Albion as he knows parents who's sons have gone to Villa and its not going to plan, he said however with the financial rewards and that his son wanted to go they went with this advisors and basically with the contract he has, he can lead a nice lifestyle (without being too OTT) and with the advisors help will be not far off not needing to work again by the age of 21 and thats even if doesnt kick a ball for Villas first team, its hard to reason against tbat.

The downside though and my mate has noticed it, is that his son has started to ease off a bit and thats what some of of the other parents have said, Villa now is like we were when we has Field, Leko, Harper, etc they were all good players for that time but its all a bit comfortable and the hunger isnt quite what it was, its not intentional but giving young lads a lot of money and security and pampering them for every one of their needs isnt good for their motivation, they think they have made it (he said the stuff Villa do for them is embarassing, they cover everything but as my mate said if they dont make it they are not prepared for the real world)

He said the coaching and pathway isnt as good as the Albion, a few years ago my mates son could of gone to any of the top english clubs as well as Athletico Madrid ans Inter to name a few (they were offered relocation, wages, etc) but after meeting Richard Stevens they were so impressed he stayed at Albion, he said he is brilliant at what he does and Stevens and the other coaches are on the reasons he wanted him to shun the money and stay at Albion but his sons head was turned.

The issue Villa have got is that they used their financial power the last few years to blow everyone out the water, the downside to that is that people then expect results and i have been told through a good works contact that Harrisons job is starting to get asked questions and unless something major happens (ie - a real breakthrough star from the lads they have poached from other teams for large fees) he will probably be gone within the next 18-24 months as part of an academy restructure, supposedly there is somebody who Villa have taken on who will ruffle a few feathers and he wants results, its not gone down too well with Harrison (similar to Dowling, what Dowling did was correct in questioning what was going on, how he went about it was where he went wrong)

I think we are in good hands with Stevens, people will always get their head turned by money but he seems well respected and i got told Fenton Heard turned down a big offer from Villa despite being a Villa fan.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2024, 02:47:20 PM by Albion79 »

BalisPen

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1675
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3723 on: March 14, 2024, 03:13:02 PM »
I am not too bothered about youngsters going into another academy, so much changes between early and late teens, there will always be the odd one who goes onto better things but the vast majority dont really progess, what they do is cash in now whilst their potential and reputation is high, football is a business, its not like it was 30 years ago, a lot of lads have 'advisors' from early school age, i dont like it as football should be about enjoyment especially at that age but thats the way it is.

To give an example i am mates with the dad of one of the kids who have gone to Villa (i wont name him) both are Albion fans and he enjoyed being at the Albion but Villa approached him, he went there and they blew us out the water. He said Albion are very good with the resources they have but Villa just flexed their power, the way he was looked after, what he was promised, how he was made to feel, his head was turned.

He said Harrison and Hopcroft were both top blokes and done as they promised they would (i have worked with Steve Hopcroft and he is a good bloke) but to give an idea what we are up against, my mates son at 17, earns double what his dad does, each year that increases until he is 21.

My mate said he wanted his son to stay at Albion as he knows parents who's sons have gone to Villa and its not going to plan, he said however with the financial rewards and that his son wanted to go they went with this advisors and basically with the contract he has, he can lead a nice lifestyle (without being too OTT) and with the advisors help will be not far off not needing to work again by the age of 21 and thats even if doesnt kick a ball for Villas first team, its hard to reason against tbat.

The downside though and my mate has noticed it, is that his son has started to ease off a bit and thats what some of of the other parents have said, Villa now is like we were when we has Field, Leko, Harper, etc they were all good players for that time but its all a bit comfortable and the hunger isnt quite what it was, its not intentional but giving young lads a lot of money and security and pampering them for every one of their needs isnt good for their motivation, they think they have made it (he said the stuff Villa do for them is embarassing, they cover everything but as my mate said if they dont make it they are not prepared for the real world)

He said the coaching and pathway isnt as good as the Albion, a few years ago my mates son could of gone to any of the top english clubs as well as Athletico Madrid ans Inter to name a few (they were offered relocation, wages, etc) but after meeting Richard Stevens they were so impressed he stayed at Albion, he said he is brilliant at what he does and Stevens and the other coaches are on the reasons he wanted him to shun the money and stay at Albion but his sons head was turned.

The issue Villa have got is that they used their financial power the last few years to blow everyone out the water, the downside to that is that people then expect results and i have been told through a good works contact that Harrisons job is starting to get asked questions and unless something major happens (ie - a real breakthrough star) he will probably be gone within the next 18-24 months as part of an academy restructure, supposedly there is somebody who Villa have taken on who will ruffle a few feathers and he wants results, its not gone down too well with Harrison (similar to Dowling, what Dowling did was correct in questioning what was going on, how he went about it was where he went wrong)

I think we are in good hands with Stevens, people will always get their head turned by money but he seems well respected and i got told Fenton Heard turned down a big offer from Villa despite being a Villa fan.


Thanks for the insight, I always hoped Stevens was better after Maddison and Wiilson at Cov, and hopefully we will see more quality coming through to our first team now, with TF one of many too come, fingers crossed.

I don't know as I haven't seen it or looked, but is Hopcroft taking any kids from other local academies or just primarily ours?

I know that Lino went to Arsenal and has gone there now, as he was going to be released by the gunners, but I don't hear much about others going there from the likes of Blose or dings.

Stevens didn't go back and raid cov, so it seems like Hopcoft is a desperate rat trying to prove he is better than he is. I have posted previously on this thread that their academy produced better without him and better than ours with the likes of Greasy, Ramsey brothers, Archer O'Hare then Hopcroft ever did with us and his master plan is to nick our players and build an inner city youth training facility.

The person you refer to being not happy with Hoppy must be Mochi who they got from Seville as their whatever title he got there, as i'm sure he wants results especially when they are making losses of £109m (hopefully much more next year).

The point you make about no hunger was exactly what Dowling was implying when he stopped the youth players using the entrance as first team players.

Too much, too soon.

It really hurts when they nick one of ours and has done since Ugo went, but at least we got £4m when we needed it, despite Ellis's attempts to buy out the 50% sell on clause we had.

When a youth player does what he does and goes there I am not of ilk who wishes them well. I hope they make millions whilst there but I also hope they never make it, as it means they have wasted all that money for nothing.

I sincerely hope that Tim what's his name disappears soon as he's made his money as it worries me that he will be going for millions of pounds to a bigger club, like Azaz did recently.



« Last Edit: March 14, 2024, 03:26:11 PM by BalisPen »

Albion79

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1889
Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #3724 on: March 14, 2024, 03:54:38 PM »
I think Harrison and Hopcroft going there was a perfect storm, Dowling started to put pressure on and wanted to change things, they didnt like it and at the same time Villa were looking for people who could come in restructure their setup.

I would imagine the fact Harrison ans Hopcroft had access to players from about 6 upto 19 and were based on a few miles up the road meant it was a no brainer for the new owners at Villa, it was a ready mades setup, i think they have targeted our lads more than Blues and Wolves due to their existing relationships from their time with us.

They have had a nationwide push, they have poached players from English and Scottish clubs academies but ours has been their main supplier!

They did well out of Azaz as that has paid for him and made a small profit, he is the exception at the moment, the other lads Balis Pen mentioned who have done well either at Villa or sold on for good fees were already in their academy system.

The pressure is on for the ones Harrison and Hopcroft have poached and spent fees for, not just fees but these lads are getting paid a lot more than other lads their age at other clubs, when you operate that way it brings higher expectations.

I have no issue wity young lads going, there will be a high percentage chance that most wont make it with a small amount making a career possibly at lower levels and an even smaller amount playing premier league and being able to be an asset to the first team and / or sold for big money.

Thats the same at most big academies to be fair but Villa excessive spending at it means they need big results, cant blame the players, they get big money guarenteed at a young age and it could be all over with a bad injury or becoming unwanted a few years down the line.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2024, 03:56:55 PM by Albion79 »