Author Topic: Tony Pulis  (Read 5161971 times)

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Astle1968

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #850 on: February 09, 2015, 10:17:35 AM »
There is no 'Albion Way'. Nobody was crying out for 'Albion' football during Megsons reign. Makes us sound like West Ham fans. In my time there only been Ardilles and Mowbray that really played that all out attack style were supposedly so famous for. The difference between Pulis and Megson is our expectations have changed, similar to how Stokes did and why the vast majority of loved the job he did there but couldn't wait to see the back of him by the end.

I loved the way we played under Mowbray and would love to see a return, but I'm not going to be on here complaining unless we have 70% of the ball each match. There loads and loads of ways to play exciting football and not all of them attacking but I genuinely cant think of a more boring style than the 1 Pulis employs.

In 4 games under Pulis we are still yet to score a goal from open play. In 2 away games we have had 1 opportunity from open play which was when the Burnley defender fell over. We have not created a single chance, and have not looked like  creating a chance. For the people wanting to give him time so he can bring in his own players and his own style I will say again that this is his style. In his last 4 seasons at Stoke the amount of goals they scored from open play were 16,19,14,14. So looking at that the best we can hope for is a goal from open play every 2 games. 28 goals from open play in his last 76 games. Forget about a ratio anything like that away from home. It actually angers me when we have Sky commentating on how well worked out set pieces are and that you can see how much work has been put in to them. I'd rather see a manager try and get a team passing the ball and keeping possession than spending all his time on the training ground working on corners.

As for Pulis changing style when he gets his own players, I think the players/formation being played are classic Pulis. We may see a few changes with players in and out and the summer but the style of player/game plan will remain the same.

4 Centre backs all strong in the air
Central midfield made up of hard working ball winners
1 hard working winger
Big man up top

All we will see is Berahino out and replaced with Cole/another target man and some of the fringe players replaced by a slightly higher quality replica. We wont be seeing 2 unpredictable 'match winning' wingers, we wont be seeing a creative number 10, we very likely wont see 2 full backs and we wont see a change in the style or approach from Pulis.

If it keeps us up then I'm sure that's enough for some people so I'm not looking to get in to a debate about it's efficiency (although I actually think were in more danger of going down now than when Irvine was here) but it's not entertaining and I think the approach is both embarrassing and cowardly. As Devon says though we may as well get used to it because it's almost certainly not going to be changing.

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #851 on: February 09, 2015, 10:18:59 AM »
I have no problem saying I don't like Pulis, as have already alluded to and stated it, similarly I have already noted my disdain for the deluded section of our fanbase who frankly think the sun shines out of his rear end.

You only have to look on their fans forums to see that he divides opinion there and that there is a consensus in that the time was right for him to go. In fact many believe Hughes is an upgrade, you accuse it as outlandish yet offer no evidence to the contrary- rife with hypocrisy.

You class my comments as ridiculous yet the lugubrious ingemination of your statements, especially considering you serve only to undermine viewpoints rather than put over a coherent debate, is ridiculous.

As for my Palace point, it was used to show that he continually falls out with owners over transfers, he did it during his first spell at Stoke if I remember correctly. He spends loads of money of tat effectively. You like examples so feast on these: Kitson, Palacious, Adam, Jerome, Jones, Gudjonsson.

You cant cite the current Plymouth side as defence for his poor performance, that's a bit like me saying Jeremy Peace has failed at WBA because we've seen 9 managers/head coaches in 13 years of his reign.

I post an opinion, with arguments to back it up, you say it is incorrect yet you don't prove that. The points you have made are your opinion and by suggesting that mine are incorrect you are basically saying that your opinion is more informed than mine or superior to mine- something I wholeheartedly disagree with.

Yes those players failed...can you remind me how well they had done for their previous clubs which bought about their signings in the first place! Players do fail, yet a lot of those players had been very good for their previous employers.

you make statements like 'hated by the majority at stoke' and offer no proof of this. Im not making sweeping statements I'm simply replying to your post as you seem to think that YOUR opinion of someone is the be all and end all and therefore nobody else's matters, and yes I'm dissecting your post because I'm sick of reading posts on here from people who drop a few big words in and make statements that simply are not true and make out that they speak for the majority.

I am debating with you, just because I disagree entirely with what you are saying does not make me wrong or you right.

Its quite easy to pick apart someone when they offer a personal opinion but think its gospel and that everyone else should agree with them.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 10:20:52 AM by tommcneill »
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #852 on: February 09, 2015, 10:35:50 AM »
Plenty of good managers who get lots of money to spend will waste some of it. Hodgson signed some expensive flops for Fulham. Mark Hughes signed a lot of rubbish for QPR on big money. Steve Bruce at Sunderland made some poor signings for big money too. How about the good signings Pulis made at Stoke and Palace that transformed Stoke from Championship struggles to an established Premier League team and Palace from bottom of the league to 11th. I see Ledley scored the winner for Palace at the weekend with Dann still a regular in the team.
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #853 on: February 09, 2015, 10:35:52 AM »
John, I was only repeating what many posters have said. Myself I don't care if we play rubbish for the rest of the season as long as we stay up, but could the fans put up with the Pulis style of play for more than one season.

Glyn you say that you are quite happy with our away performance but what about home performances? You have said you want to be entertained when we play at home? do you really think you will be with this style of play. Just a question buddy.


Hello Kev, We have played 2 home games under pulis won and lost indifferent performances.
Yes i want to be on the edge of my seat especially at home and the last time that happened was Under Pepe Mel.
Under Pulis i cant see a drastic change in style between away and home performances. i am happy to see if he keeps us up what our playing style should resemble next season with his additions(perrish the thought).
What i do prefer about pulis is when i see him being interviewd, we can see and hear hes here to sort them out, he shows fire and passion in his belly and i like to see that especially on the touchline
My guess is he will serve his contract  but it wont be pretty.He will most likely fall out with the chairman in the summer over recruitment and just get on with it but he will keep us in the greed league, not so easy on the eye though
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #854 on: February 09, 2015, 12:25:39 PM »
The sole task now this season is to keep us in the Premier league, a continued cup run would be nice, but, due to the inept first half of the season under Irvine, and a mixed January transfer window, we are where we are.

I don't think it is truly fair to judge Pulis until next season regarding playing style, this season, its just about survival and a pragmatic approach.

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #855 on: February 09, 2015, 12:34:26 PM »
While i accept the football so far hasn't been great and I'm baffled by a couple of things (Poco for one ) i don't think you can under estimate the mess he has arrived to , I'm not just talking this season either as you can go back 2 or 3 seasons for several bad key choices as a club .
Out of anybody interested in the job he is by far the best bloke for the situation IMO , there is no magic wand.
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #856 on: February 09, 2015, 12:44:50 PM »
What I don't understand is why the desire to play the ball on the floor with some pace is condemned and sometimes even ridiculed as being "fancy", tippy tappy" or "the fictitious albion way". 
despite what some would have you think this way of playing can be effective, it can be utilised either as all out attack or counter attacking dependant upon the game situation.

Do I like what I have seen so far from TP's side? NO I bloody don't,
Do I understand his team selections, No I don't.
Will I support him, yes this season, but, if its the same next season, I really don't know if I can, and it hurts to say that.
Some might say that makes me a fickle supporter, so be it,
I understand we need to "sort out " this season, but Pulisball is not a long term option for me.
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #857 on: February 09, 2015, 12:59:21 PM »
I suppose some fans consider Mowbray's way "attractive football" but it failed in the Prem.
With a half-decent keeper under Mowbray he would have kept us up comfortably, Carson cost us about 20 points that season.

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #858 on: February 09, 2015, 01:01:42 PM »
I don't think anyone sees Pulis as a long term solution but for the short term he is the right man. No its not going to be pretty but its a results business and so far this season they have not been good. We needed a strong character to come in and sort out a few issues that seem to be lingering. The existing coaching staff have gone and now it seems the team is ready to be evolved and a few of the strong settled regulars and going to be in for a shock if they haven't already noticed it.

No I don't agree with a few of his lineups but with the pursuit of Martin Olsson then he obviously has reservations of Pocognoli but has also seen that Lescott is not the right man to play there. Maybe after yesterday Brunt may find himself there as given Pulis like pace out wide then Brunt is going to struggle there and given how quick he was moved back out wide yesterday as in a couple of other games its obvious he is not up to a central role either especially with Mulumbu due back.

The rest of the season will not be pretty and the emphasis will be on not losing games and trying to get a result, others have had that attitude and failed trying due to lack of organisation and sloppiness from individuals. Pulis will pick up on that and as we have already seem those players may not feature as much as they would like. Our goals may only come from set-pieces and we'll see a lack of creativity at times. Again not much difference from what we have seen already this season but even at 2-0 yesterday we didn't feel out of it and I think thats one thing we will see that the squad will not be allowed to give up.

This will be another big Summer possibly the biggest so far and I expect a lot of changes with a couple of regulars being moved out to be replaced by Pulis type players, good thing or bad thing ? time will tell but some have been too comfortable for a while and the changes may do both us and them the world of good.
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #859 on: February 09, 2015, 01:02:15 PM »
To be honest, I think we've been very lucky under TP so far. Performances have been absolutely dire but we've got points on the board. How sustainable this will be for the remainder of this season is questionable to say the least.

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #860 on: February 09, 2015, 01:04:40 PM »
I do think that pulis's in-game reaction to situations that are not working is far better than Alan Irvine's. ie moving Chris brunt to a wide defensive role.
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #861 on: February 09, 2015, 01:14:28 PM »
With a half-decent keeper under Mowbray he would have kept us up comfortably, Carson cost us about 20 points that season.
With respect having one decent forward , a powder puff midfield and weak defenders cost us a lot more than Carson that season.
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #862 on: February 09, 2015, 01:26:36 PM »
I wonder if Pulis thinks he might be in with a shout for the England job if he works wonders here?

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #863 on: February 09, 2015, 02:35:09 PM »
With respect having one decent forward , a powder puff midfield and weak defenders cost us a lot more than Carson that season.
I agree with what you say, our defending at set pieces was awful, but I think Carson made our defenders look more awful half the time. Lately I've been seeing a regular debate as to whether you would rather see entertaining football or effective football. Personally, I would rather see us relegated than stay up the way we are playing at the moment. It's embarrassing to watch, and it's painful. I expect to be battered with abuse with what I am about to say now, but I would seriously rather have Irvine as manager
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 02:49:32 PM by kris_boing »

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #864 on: February 09, 2015, 02:37:54 PM »
How anyone manages to keep us up is a miracle, its a shambles from top to bottom
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #865 on: February 09, 2015, 02:48:35 PM »
Being a stoke fan I have to say I was quite curious what you lot would make of  THE CAPPED ONE and I can assure you that he will divide you like no other.

 As a balanced view I can tell you at Stoke he is still loved by some in a rather creepy manner (Rimmers), hated unjustly by some (PHW’s - Pulis Hating Wan*instains) and appreciated by the rest. The truth is that all Stoke fans were very grateful of the work he did but probably 2/3 were glad to see the back of him. Turgid binary football, square pegs in round holes, playing his favourites, brawn above ability, 100 million yes 100 million up the wall I could go on but I’m sure you get the picture. 23 years out of the top flight and we were just happy to be back but after 3 years of progress leading to a cup final appearance we just stagnated, then regressed and in the end the vast majority just dreaded hearing the team sheet, which was always delivered by the lively and inventive Dave Kemp (running joke amongst Stoke fans). The post match radio phone ins were full of people totally depressed, constantly saying how dire the football was and that they weren’t going to renew season tickets and that was even after games we’d  won. I’d like to think he is capable of change and has the ability to advance a team to the next level but i guess we will only know if he’s still with you in 18 months. 

Anyway best of luck for the rest of the season apart from March 14th obviously and I hope you stay up, which you will comfortably, so our rivalry can continue for many years to come, its good for both of us.

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #866 on: February 09, 2015, 02:51:47 PM »
I wonder if Pulis thinks he might be in with a shout for the England job if he works wonders here?

He wants to be the Welsh national manager before he eventually retires. But at the moment he loves the day to day involvement of a club football.

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #867 on: February 09, 2015, 02:56:10 PM »
I agree with what you say, our defending at set pieces was awful, but I think Carson made our defenders look more awful half the time. Lately I've been seeing a regular debate as to whether you would rather see entertaining football or effective football. Personally, I would rather see us relegated than stay up the way we are playing at the moment. It's embarrassing to watch, and it's painful. I expect to be battered with abuse with what I am about to say now, but I would seriously rather have Irvine as manager

I do wonder if we would have gave him the signings he wanted in the Summer instead of the failed foreigners we signed what position we would be in. We played some good stuff at times under Irvine.
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #868 on: February 09, 2015, 03:17:58 PM »
I totally agree with you . We signed all these players and played none . Wouldn't it be nice if we could just once attack some one , play good football and win . The dross we are watching at the moment is depressing .

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #869 on: February 09, 2015, 03:49:16 PM »
Being a stoke fan I have to say I was quite curious what you lot would make of  THE CAPPED ONE and I can assure you that he will divide you like no other.
Thank you for your insights. It'll be interesting to see what happens at Albion. I do have concerns that Pulis will turn us into what Stoke ended up as by the time he left.

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #870 on: February 09, 2015, 08:04:06 PM »
Anyway best of luck for the rest of the season apart from March 14th obviously and I hope you stay up, which you will comfortably, so our rivalry can continue for many years to come, its good for both of us.

Mostly good for you to be fair.

I remember the chants of 'We always beat West Brom'  :P

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #871 on: February 10, 2015, 12:14:40 PM »
Havent posted for ages so apologies in advance for the long post!

Personally i dont think you can really judge somebody after 6 x games and even 6 x months may be a bit too soon, but that doesnt mean there cant be concerns.

The main positive i could see with Pulis was motivation and organisation, yet of late those things seem to of come unstuck.

Pulis will of done his homework on our squad before taking over and he must know they have the mental strength of a wet fart, for over a season now we have thrown away several 2 or 3 goal leads and in certain games surrended easily. Pulis is known as a motivator, 100% man, etc so i find it a bit concerning when he says this is his biggest challenge, that the job has got tougher after the transfer window, and when asked can we stay up, he says 'who knows, we will just wait and see'.

I think he is covering his own back incase we do go down, but i think it offers a group of players an excuse, many of whom shown to be quite cowardly when it comes to a battle, he should be saying and knowing what we do of Pulis that 'these players are more than good enough to stay in the league and its up to them to prove it and stay at West Brom in the future' What i have heard so far isnt the siege mentality i was hoping for, of course actions speak louder than words and credit for coming back from 2-0 behind on Sunday but i just think he is covering his back a bit and offer an easy way out.

I think the difference is is that at Stoke he did a great job and built them from a midtable Champ team to a established Prem team so he almost had free reign, the expectation was what he made it, at Palace they were dead and buried, nobody expected anything and again he did a great job and kept them up. At the Albion as we have been in the Premiership a number of years now its a different expectation, i think we do expect to stay up as for a number of seasons now teams have been coming up new to the league and we have stayed up so far and i think we would like a cup run (he is ticking the box on that front)

I think Irvine would of kept us up (i know not many agree) and i expect Pulis to keep us up, we have a squad that is better than 3 other teams, so far this season i think we have been in the bottom 3 once or twice and majority of it out of it so that would suggest we are better than 3 others as we now around 2/3rds through the season ? I know we have a hard run in, etc but as Sean Dyche said the other day, everybody has to play each other twice over the season so when you play them dont really matter.

It may of been covered elsewhere but i would be surprised if there isnt a optout the contract for both parties come the summer, if we go down i certainly expect Pulis to walk of his own accord, if we stay up then he may want another season. Personally i was surprised he took the job (money helps!) because as depressing as it is, i dont think he can really better what we achieved in the league under Hodgson and Clarke, we could have a cup run but i also think because of the expectations mentioned above, if we stay up, come next season i think our fans will want to be entertained, if he produces the football he did at Palace then great, but i think if its Stoke esque, then people will turn, at the moment his first aim is to keep us up so style of football, etc isnt important but it will be eventually. I think he would of been better waiting for a QPR or Leicester, having money and time, low expectation and build the club from there.

Style was i dont know what to think, against Hull it was a gritty battling performance, we got the win, job done. Everton away was dreadful to watch but again got a result and you could see the defence was organised at the expense of us offering an attacking threat, however the last couple of games, we havent looked organised at the back and havent improved massively in attack!

Like others i dont understand his team selection, as somebody said above surely a  player playing average in his own position is better than a good player playing badly there? If he doesnt rate Poco then fair enough, but short term til the end of the season surely he is better than out of position players there?  I rate him so not sure whats what there. Same goes with the Winger front, why not keep Varela til the end of the season, if we had got the wingers in he wanted then let him go but we didnt, so make use of him short term. Hodgson did it, when he came in he brought back in Meite and a couple of others, end of the season they were gone but they did the job short term, i cant understand why Pulis doesnt see that

My gut instinct of Pulis is that i think he is a good likeable bloke, who is clearly a very effective and successful manager at what he does, i think he will keep us up but i dont think long term we will be good for him and vice versa, i think there were other managers out there who could of come in, kept us up and maybe built something longer lasting, i think Pulis will be gone by end of next season latest and we go back to square one of another coach.

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #872 on: February 10, 2015, 12:22:08 PM »
Havent posted for ages so apologies in advance for the long post!

Personally i dont think you can really judge somebody after 6 x games and even 6 x months may be a bit too soon, but that doesnt mean there cant be concerns.

The main positive i could see with Pulis was motivation and organisation, yet of late those things seem to of come unstuck.

Pulis will of done his homework on our squad before taking over and he must know they have the mental strength of a wet fart, for over a season now we have thrown away several 2 or 3 goal leads and in certain games surrended easily. Pulis is known as a motivator, 100% man, etc so i find it a bit concerning when he says this is his biggest challenge, that the job has got tougher after the transfer window, and when asked can we stay up, he says 'who knows, we will just wait and see'.

I think he is covering his own back incase we do go down, but i think it offers a group of players an excuse, many of whom shown to be quite cowardly when it comes to a battle, he should be saying and knowing what we do of Pulis that 'these players are more than good enough to stay in the league and its up to them to prove it and stay at West Brom in the future' What i have heard so far isnt the siege mentality i was hoping for, of course actions speak louder than words and credit for coming back from 2-0 behind on Sunday but i just think he is covering his back a bit and offer an easy way out.

I think the difference is is that at Stoke he did a great job and built them from a midtable Champ team to a established Prem team so he almost had free reign, the expectation was what he made it, at Palace they were dead and buried, nobody expected anything and again he did a great job and kept them up. At the Albion as we have been in the Premiership a number of years now its a different expectation, i think we do expect to stay up as for a number of seasons now teams have been coming up new to the league and we have stayed up so far and i think we would like a cup run (he is ticking the box on that front)

I think Irvine would of kept us up (i know not many agree) and i expect Pulis to keep us up, we have a squad that is better than 3 other teams, so far this season i think we have been in the bottom 3 once or twice and majority of it out of it so that would suggest we are better than 3 others as we now around 2/3rds through the season ? I know we have a hard run in, etc but as Sean Dyche said the other day, everybody has to play each other twice over the season so when you play them dont really matter.

It may of been covered elsewhere but i would be surprised if there isnt a optout the contract for both parties come the summer, if we go down i certainly expect Pulis to walk of his own accord, if we stay up then he may want another season. Personally i was surprised he took the job (money helps!) because as depressing as it is, i dont think he can really better what we achieved in the league under Hodgson and Clarke, we could have a cup run but i also think because of the expectations mentioned above, if we stay up, come next season i think our fans will want to be entertained, if he produces the football he did at Palace then great, but i think if its Stoke esque, then people will turn, at the moment his first aim is to keep us up so style of football, etc isnt important but it will be eventually. I think he would of been better waiting for a QPR or Leicester, having money and time, low expectation and build the club from there.

Style was i dont know what to think, against Hull it was a gritty battling performance, we got the win, job done. Everton away was dreadful to watch but again got a result and you could see the defence was organised at the expense of us offering an attacking threat, however the last couple of games, we havent looked organised at the back and havent improved massively in attack!

Like others i dont understand his team selection, as somebody said above surely a  player playing average in his own position is better than a good player playing badly there? If he doesnt rate Poco then fair enough, but short term til the end of the season surely he is better than out of position players there?  I rate him so not sure whats what there. Same goes with the Winger front, why not keep Varela til the end of the season, if we had got the wingers in he wanted then let him go but we didnt, so make use of him short term. Hodgson did it, when he came in he brought back in Meite and a couple of others, end of the season they were gone but they did the job short term, i cant understand why Pulis doesnt see that

My gut instinct of Pulis is that i think he is a good likeable bloke, who is clearly a very effective and successful manager at what he does, i think he will keep us up but i dont think long term we will be good for him and vice versa, i think there were other managers out there who could of come in, kept us up and maybe built something longer lasting, i think Pulis will be gone by end of next season latest and we go back to square one of another coach.

A good measured post which I think pretty much sums up where we are.

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #873 on: February 10, 2015, 08:46:21 PM »
I agree with what you say, our defending at set pieces was awful, but I think Carson made our defenders look more awful half the time. Lately I've been seeing a regular debate as to whether you would rather see entertaining football or effective football. Personally, I would rather see us relegated than stay up the way we are playing at the moment. It's embarrassing to watch, and it's painful. I expect to be battered with abuse with what I am about to say now, but I would seriously rather have Irvine as manager
You start from defense any decent manager knows that.
It was powder poof under Mowbray. You could have had the best keeper in the World in the sticks.But would not have saved us. Where is he now?
TP for all your perceived criticisms. Is and has been a Premiership manager far longer than TM was and will ever be.   
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #874 on: February 10, 2015, 10:26:04 PM »