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Do you want Sam to stay as manager?

Yes
103 (63.2%)
No
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Total Members Voted: 163

Author Topic: Sam Allardyce  (Read 605396 times)

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Hull Baggie

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1525 on: January 13, 2021, 03:22:07 PM »
How long do you want to give him? How far do we have to sink? Maybe to the level where we can't beat a League 1 side?

until the window shuts and he's had a chance to try and balance the squad he was left with I think is fair.

Against Blackpool he played players that hadn't been given much game time to see what they were  all about (not much as it turns out!). They still should have been able to beat a league 1 side though but poor marking and a lack of players doing their jobs properly cost us the goals not the tactics.
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baggie82

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1526 on: January 13, 2021, 03:30:15 PM »
The biggest indictment is that Allardyce has come in and has taken a weak side and somehow made us worse. If you thought Bilic needed to be sacked then you should be calling for Allardyce to be sacked as well.

skyclad99

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1527 on: January 13, 2021, 03:41:07 PM »
(Note, when I say 'better', I don't mean 'good enough', I just mean 'better').

We play better with the ball on the floor and passing it through midfield.  Getting Pierera and Diangana on the ball in attacking areas is much more productive than them sitting 40 yards from our own goal.  In Robinson and Grant we have players who prefer the ball in front of them to run onto.  The defence is better when the ball isn't coming back at them constantly.

Watch all the games on TV and show me which teams set up as deep and defensively minded as we do.  Spurs are 'defensive' but they still average 40% possession and don't sit as deep as we do.  We're getting around 30% possession in games - I can't believe that anyone thinks that's the right thing to do with a squad that performs better with the ball than without.

I've said it a million times - the way Sam sets us up to play is the absolute worst tactic you could use for this squad of players - and the results agree with me.  This is why I believe pretty much any manager who plays a more progressive style of football than Sam would get more out of this squad than Sam is.

And yes, I agree, that Sam could improve things (and I pray he does against the Dingles), but his improvement will come with changes to the squad that sacrifices the quality of the football and seeing as we're going down anyway it seems completely pointless.

Last year we certainly did play better when the ball was on the floor, I will agree with you there. Pereira and Diangana played the ball brilliantly at times last year you can see that they were on the same page and could read each others game. Unfortunately Grady has not turned up this year and Pereira is looking bang average at the moment. Our midfield is being torn to shreds for fun.

You may think that I am being negative for the sake of it - I'm not. When I first considered your point of playing to their strength, my only thought was Johnstone who has been very good this year, after him I was stuck. However, I believe that we do have some good players and I firmly believe that all we need are two or three 'key' players to make the whole thing work. We need a 'Roy Keane' to be honest.

We cannot play through the middle as we are being out played on a regular basis. Pointless playing long ball as we don't have the pace to compete [although I am mindful of the recent Sawyers 40 yard pass that Grant got onto and passed to the goalkeeper]. Our 'strength' at the moment appears to be defending in numbers and the occasional contribution from Ajayi on set pieces. After that then I am stuck, but with a few new players with different skillsets.....

That's why I am pleased we have Snodgrass. Forget his age and resale value in 2 years, what can he do this weekend? Hopefully he will add some grit and determination in our midfield and shout at a few of them.....   
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skyclad99

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1528 on: January 13, 2021, 03:42:53 PM »
The biggest indictment is that Allardyce has come in and has taken a weak side and somehow made us worse. If you thought Bilic needed to be sacked then you should be calling for Allardyce to be sacked as well.

before he has had a chance to field his own team, which will include his own players?

Do you think that the team we have at present is good enough to survive?
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tommcneill

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1529 on: January 13, 2021, 03:44:38 PM »
The biggest indictment is that Allardyce has come in and has taken a weak side and somehow made us worse. If you thought Bilic needed to be sacked then you should be calling for Allardyce to be sacked as well.

Such an irrational statement that is!

Bilic had 18 months......3-4 of those were a purple patch.

Lets give Allardyce the same time and then we can make comparisons
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1530 on: January 13, 2021, 03:48:27 PM »
Bilic had 18 months and never addressed the weak spine of the team, I liked him, even if I couldn't understand a word he was saying half the time, but, Big Sam has a plan and the signings look like the spine of the team is finally being addressed.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1531 on: January 13, 2021, 04:01:31 PM »
Bilic had 18 months and never addressed the weak spine of the team, I liked him, even if I couldn't understand a word he was saying half the time, but, Big Sam has a plan and the signings look like the spine of the team is finally being addressed.

If a weakness appears obvious to the majority of fans you can be damn sure it needs addressing.   It was obvious we were short of a quality CD (Ivanovic was a terrible signing), DCM (we've not had a genuine DM since Jacob?) And a genuine CF (we all had hopes for Grant but Hudds fans told us en mass he was a goalscorer but no CF).   We all knew we were also lacking at FB and a box to box, with only Gallagher arriving.

That collectively Slav, Dowling and Lai allowed us to start the season with such obvious weaknesses seemed an error at the time but in hindsight seems just catastrophic if the owner genuinely wanted or expected us to stay up.

My only hope is that the players we do bring in do strengthen those positions and that they are still around in the Champ once Allardyce has gone.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 04:04:21 PM by Oldbury24 »

timdon

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1532 on: January 13, 2021, 04:57:15 PM »
Such an irrational statement that is!

Bilic had 18 months......3-4 of those were a purple patch.

Lets give Allardyce the same time and then we can make comparisons
From the bottom of my heart, I hope not. That's a terrible idea.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1533 on: January 13, 2021, 04:58:07 PM »
Such an irrational statement that is!

Bilic had 18 months......3-4 of those were a purple patch.

Lets give Allardyce the same time and then we can make comparisons

Did you think that post through?

Allardyce will be gone in the event of relegation, which right now is about 90% certain.

I'd be willing to be slightly more patient if I could see what he's trying to do.. Currently there has been nothing at all.  Apart from reducing possession levels by around 15%.

timdon

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1534 on: January 13, 2021, 05:00:15 PM »
Bilic had 18 months and never addressed the weak spine of the team, I liked him, even if I couldn't understand a word he was saying half the time, but, Big Sam has a plan and the signings look like the spine of the team is finally being addressed.
The signings? A third choice goalie and an aging winger? Hardly addressing the spine of the team.

skyclad99

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1535 on: January 13, 2021, 05:01:09 PM »
From the bottom of my heart, I hope not. That's a terrible idea.

He will get until the end of the season Timdon, if/when we do go down I cannot see for one second SA hanging around. Likewise I cannot see the club giving him the spanish if we continue with our present form. This is the board rolling the dice and hoping for a double six.......I don't think they will have the appetite or cash for another roll. 
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baggie82

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1536 on: January 13, 2021, 05:03:33 PM »
Bilic had 18 months and never addressed the weak spine of the team, I liked him, even if I couldn't understand a word he was saying half the time, but, Big Sam has a plan and the signings look like the spine of the team is finally being addressed.

Bilic had 1 season and delivered automatic promotion. That's called being successful. Some fans like to moan that the team didn't get 90 of 100 points. That is their right, however unreasonable.

Relegation this season was all but sealed when the board set the transfer budget. A realistic expectation this season was 20th. At no stage did Bilic underperform, if anything the opposite is true. As we have witnessed with the disastrous form since the board decided to replace him.

Will Allardyce hang out until May to get relegation on his CV? I hope so as I detest the lack of patience in football but either way it doesn't matter, we are doomed this season and have harmed our club for next season and years ahead by swapping chairs on the titanic. We are just another Watford.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1537 on: January 13, 2021, 05:09:07 PM »
Did you think that post through?

Allardyce will be gone in the event of relegation, which right now is about 90% certain.

I'd be willing to be slightly more patient if I could see what he's trying to do.. Currently there has been nothing at all.  Apart from reducing possession levels by around 15%.

Absolutely..

comparing 18 months of Bilic's reign with 4/5 games of Allardyces is extremely irrational...

I never said we will get 18 months out of Allardyce but that surely comparisons can be made when theyve had the same amount of time
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1538 on: January 13, 2021, 05:11:02 PM »
The signings? A third choice goalie and an aging winger? Hardly addressing the spine of the team.

1. Getting rid of Austin...trying to sign a replacment
2. Trying to get Choudhry in
3. the obvious llinks to a CB

Yes, we are addressing the spine of the team
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1539 on: January 13, 2021, 05:12:45 PM »
Bilic had 1 season and delivered automatic promotion. That's called being successful. Some fans like to moan that the team didn't get 90 of 100 points. That is their right, however unreasonable.

Relegation this season was all but sealed when the board set the transfer budget. A realistic expectation this season was 20th. At no stage did Bilic underperform, if anything the opposite is true. As we have witnessed with the disastrous form since the board decided to replace him.

Will Allardyce hang out until May to get relegation on his CV? I hope so as I detest the lack of patience in football but either way it doesn't matter, we are doomed this season and have harmed our club for next season and years ahead by swapping chairs on the titanic. We are just another Watford.

I dont think anyone has said Bilic wasnt successful for getting automatic promotion. Quite the opposite infact

But the problems that existed last season still exist this season and he had 3 transfer windows to address it. He didnt.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1540 on: January 13, 2021, 05:14:44 PM »
He will get until the end of the season Timdon, if/when we do go down I cannot see for one second SA hanging around. Likewise I cannot see the club giving him the spanish if we continue with our present form. This is the board rolling the dice and hoping for a double six.......I don't think they will have the appetite or cash for another roll.

Why should Allardyce last the season if we carry on as we have? We should be assertive and sack him in March or April.  I want players incoming then I can see this man is actually having a go.  It is total negligence to continue with players that are lost, broken mentally or simply don't want to play under him.

Transfer fees are irrelevant right now, we need new players starting with a clean slate.  People keep saying Allardyce needs his own players, well we've had 13 days soticked off already.

timdon

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1541 on: January 13, 2021, 05:19:24 PM »
1. Getting rid of Austin...trying to sign a replacment
2. Trying to get Choudhry in
3. the obvious llinks to a CB

Yes, we are addressing the spine of the team
The poster I quoted talked about signings. You are talking about "trying" and "links". Two very different things.

skyclad99

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1542 on: January 13, 2021, 05:34:06 PM »
Why should Allardyce last the season if we carry on as we have? We should be assertive and sack him in March or April.  I want players incoming then I can see this man is actually having a go.  It is total negligence to continue with players that are lost, broken mentally or simply don't want to play under him.

Transfer fees are irrelevant right now, we need new players starting with a clean slate.  People keep saying Allardyce needs his own players, well we've had 13 days soticked off already.

OK then, riddle me this...

Where is the money going to come from to sack Allardyce and install a new huckleberry?
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1543 on: January 13, 2021, 05:36:07 PM »
Do you think the performances have improved at all?  It's fine listing losses, but at least we were in those games compared to Villa, Arsenal and Leeds.  And let's face it, the result flattered us against Liverpool - that could easily have turned into another Leeds game.

I'm with you about the signings - cheap lower league signings aren't going to get us anywhere, and Brexit has thrown a spanner in European signings.  It doesn't leave us with many options.  Dowling should have realised this before he appointed a manager who would require massive changes to the squad.

I don’t think the performances have improved and I’ve been disappointed but like others SA has had a grace period in my mind and I do hope to see an improvement against Wolves and West Ham but I would also hope to see him further supported in the market, not leaving everything until after we’ve played all of January’s games.

I expected more v Leeds and Arsenal. The Villa game I blame on Livermore and if GREGMT wants to talk about VAR cheating Bilic well let’s be fair and say it should have given Villa a red in that game.

The Liverpool game was the bar and I expect to see closer than that in the next 2 games and I will struggle to continue with the benefit of the doubt if we see much of the same as we will be cut off soon.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1544 on: January 13, 2021, 05:44:02 PM »
I dont think anyone has said Bilic wasnt successful for getting automatic promotion. Quite the opposite infact

But the problems that existed last season still exist this season and he had 3 transfer windows to address it. He didnt.

How much of that was down to Bilic though? We had no more money left to bring anyone else in. Didn't he question the amount spent on Diangana for example?

The same will happen to Allardyce. He'll have plenty of targets but I'm not convinced the club will be able to bring them in.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1545 on: January 13, 2021, 05:48:06 PM »
The poster I quoted talked about signings. You are talking about "trying" and "links". Two very different things.

And I think we both know he was talking about the potential signings..which are there to address the spine of the team
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 05:51:43 PM by tommcneill »
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1546 on: January 13, 2021, 05:51:25 PM »
How much of that was down to Bilic though? We had no more money left to bring anyone else in. Didn't he question the amount spent on Diangana for example?

The same will happen to Allardyce. He'll have plenty of targets but I'm not convinced the club will be able to bring them in.

That was 1 window.

We lacked a decent striker and a decent CDM for several windows.

Resigning Krov for morale but failing to address a weak midfield is very much Bilic’s fault.

I do agree that the people above Allardyce may make it very hard for him to bring in who he wants

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1547 on: January 13, 2021, 06:03:25 PM »
And I think we both know he was talking about the potential signings..which are there to address the spine of the team
Do we? That's not what he said, and I imagine he is perfectly capable of replying himself if he thinks I'm being unfair or inaccurate.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1548 on: January 13, 2021, 06:04:40 PM »
Such an irrational statement that is!

Bilic had 18 months......3-4 of those were a purple patch.

Lets give Allardyce the same time and then we can make comparisons

err, lets not !
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1549 on: January 13, 2021, 06:27:25 PM »
Judging Allardyce quite this early is silly in my opinion but I’ll accept he has to be judged earlier than most because of the firefighting role he has been employed for.

I think we need to see a big improvement on Saturday, even without new personnel  we have to compete better than we have done.