Author Topic: Valérien Ismaël leaves WBA  (Read 463957 times)

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baggiejohn

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1825 on: November 29, 2021, 08:05:01 PM »

YEs very common now to limit compensation and rightly so.

It's likely that the contract would have a heavy performance related content based on results.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

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gazberg

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1826 on: November 29, 2021, 08:11:18 PM »
It's likely that the contract would have a heavy performance related content based on results.

Well if VI isn't careful he will be approaching his cut off very soon.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1827 on: November 29, 2021, 09:18:56 PM »
Lepko nowadays know's the inside track on nothing in particular and is just creating air time.  Why would a manager sign a four year contract with detremental clauses on compo and or performance??  I'm afraid it's just wishful thinking here on the part of some.

A four year contract means GOING NOWHERE unless the wheels totally come off and we lose touch with the top 6 completely. That might happen and then we can discuss again, but to talk about him being sacked when he has the third best squad in the league (arguably) in third place is just nonsense.

Neither will the owners give a monkeys toss about empty seats.  The income from those few seats comparative to other streams is miniscule and West Brom will continue to get good air time as we are still a slightly bigger fish in this smaller pond.

I don't know about long term plans and squad rebuilding but like him or loathe him it would appear the owners went **** or bust on the fella and will have to give him time.   





« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 09:29:08 PM by Oldbury24 »

Baggie79

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1828 on: November 29, 2021, 09:42:44 PM »
Lepko nowadays know's the inside track on nothing in particular and is just creating air time.  Why would a manager sign a four year contract with detremental clauses on compo and or performance??  I'm afraid it's just wishful thinking here on the part of some.

A four year contract means GOING NOWHERE unless the wheels totally come off and we lose touch with the top 6 completely. That might happen and then we can discuss again, but to talk about him being sacked when he has the third best squad in the league (arguably) in third place is just nonsense.

Neither will the owners give a monkeys toss about empty seats.  The income from those few seats comparative to other streams is miniscule and West Brom will continue to get good air time as we are still a slightly bigger fish in this smaller pond.

I don't know about long term plans and squad rebuilding but like him or loathe him it would appear the owners went **** or bust on the fella and will have to give him time.

As he was fourth choice at best with the opportunity to manage a much bigger club unfortunately for him he would accept anything. He would be on a twelve month payoff at very best for him.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 09:44:17 PM by Baggie79 »
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frazzle

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1829 on: November 29, 2021, 09:43:53 PM »
Down to fourth now and with the next game away to Coventry there is a good chance we could be out the playoffs in the next couple of rounds of matches.

We’ve been on the decline since the Arsenal game. We need to get rid now.

gazberg

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1830 on: November 29, 2021, 09:47:17 PM »
Frazzle you talk a lot of sense.

People say give him time and money ( if he's definitely getting a load of money then fair enough, i can't see it personally), yet most of these people say we can't afford to sack him. Which is it guys?

LiamTheBaggie

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1831 on: November 29, 2021, 09:55:28 PM »
Down to fourth now and with the next game away to Coventry there is a good chance we could be out the playoffs in the next couple of rounds of matches.

We’ve been on the decline since the Arsenal game. We need to get rid now.

You can’t criticise us when we’re 2nd…

We’re still 3rd in the league…

We’re still 4th in the league…

It’s a horrible slippery slope when it starts…
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gazberg

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1832 on: November 29, 2021, 09:57:25 PM »
Sometimes when you invest, you make a bad decision. You either have to cut your losses and take it on the chin and recover elsewhere or watch your investment turn to nothing over time.

I know what most people would do but Lai is something else. Scary stuff.

frazzle

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1833 on: November 29, 2021, 09:58:16 PM »
You can’t criticise us when we’re 2nd…

We’re still 3rd in the league…

We’re still 4th in the league…

It’s a horrible slippery slope when it starts…

And if he showed any inclination to try something new then I’d be willing to stick by him, but not adapting tactics for the opposition before or during the game and expecting the form to change is madness I’m afraid.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1834 on: November 29, 2021, 10:05:52 PM »
Frazzle you talk a lot of sense.

People say give him time and money ( if he's definitely getting a load of money then fair enough, i can't see it personally), yet most of these people say we can't afford to sack him. Which is it guys?

I haven't seen anybody writing give him a load of money, we all know it doesn't exist - maybe what's due on a meagre budget.  Time yes.  Is his replacement going to get "a load of money"; it's xmas time, maybe a genie will appear.  If we don't go up at the end of this season maybe the sense of entitlement will subside to levels commensurate with the size of budget and club.
I did remark on Barnsley's MO just before he was appointed but once appointed, he has to be given a season, surely?
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1835 on: November 29, 2021, 10:06:46 PM »
And if he showed any inclination to try something new then I’d be willing to stick by him, but not adapting tactics for the opposition before or during the game and expecting the form to change is madness I’m afraid.
When we typically out shoot the opposition by pretty much 2:1, what exactly needs to be changed apart from being more successful in front of goal?

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1836 on: November 29, 2021, 10:06:52 PM »
The problem is with keep sacking managers where does it end?

If we sack Val tomorrow, get somebody new in, have a similar run of results for the next four months, still 3rd or 4th in the table come March, do we sack the new man?

Appoint someone else in March, if we finish in the playoff positions come May, sack him too?

We are on a bad run of form, a very bad run but most teams of our level have bad runs, we arent a great side, we will have poor runs of form, we will also have good runs of form, we started the season very well, you dont give managers new contracrs if they have a good run, same as you shouldnt sack them during a bad run, especially when that bad run has still led to us being 4th in the table.

I dont like Vals style at the moment but i wasnt complaining when we putting 2 past Bournemouth, 4 past Sheffield United, 3 past Luton, teams did suss us out a bit and Val certainly has to adapt but these players seemed quite happy when things were good well, but soon as things got a bit tough they seemed to stop trying as much, it did for Darren Moore and it did for Bilic.

I would prefer to judge Val and his style when he has more of his own players instead of a few freebie squad players and loans, i imagine the last few months have taught Val a lot about our squad and their attitudes and mentality.

baggiejohn

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1837 on: November 29, 2021, 10:19:22 PM »
Lepko nowadays know's the inside track on nothing in particular and is just creating air time.  Why would a manager sign a four year contract with detremental clauses on compo and or performance??  I'm afraid it's just wishful thinking here on the part of some.

A four year contract means GOING NOWHERE unless the wheels totally come off and we lose touch with the top 6 completely. That might happen and then we can discuss again, but to talk about him being sacked when he has the third best squad in the league (arguably) in third place is just nonsense.

Neither will the owners give a monkeys toss about empty seats.  The income from those few seats comparative to other streams is miniscule and West Brom will continue to get good air time as we are still a slightly bigger fish in this smaller pond.

I don't know about long term plans and squad rebuilding but like him or loathe him it would appear the owners went **** or bust on the fella and will have to give him time.

Couple of things............

We have allegedly paid around £2million compensation for VI, plus an undisclosed sum for his support staff.
It's highly unlikely that we would compound that by offering him a package that wouldn't have a high performance related content.

Media income in the Championship is tiny in comparison to the EPL , so the board would absolutely be interested in gate receipt income.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

gazberg

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1838 on: November 29, 2021, 10:20:58 PM »
I haven't seen anybody writing give him a load of money, we all know it doesn't exist - maybe what's due on a meagre budget.  Time yes.  Is his replacement going to get "a load of money"; it's xmas time, maybe a genie will appear.  If we don't go up at the end of this season maybe the sense of entitlement will subside to levels commensurate with the size of budget and club.
I did remark on Barnsley's MO just before he was appointed but once appointed, he has to be given a season, surely?

Most managers wouldn't need a load of money to get this squad playing better. I'd say a good manager would walk in and be adaptable and play to their strengths or even just squeeze more out of the existing players like Cooper at Forest.

The only thing can moan about it lack of a quality proper CF. Most of our issues are his own doing in terms of losing squad support. Being out thought etc

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1839 on: November 29, 2021, 11:10:49 PM »
When we typically out shoot the opposition by pretty much 2:1, what exactly needs to be changed apart from being more successful in front of goal?

Spot on.  I’d be far more worried if we weren’t creating chances.  Saw Charlie Austin playing very well for QPR tonight and Andre Gray score a worldie winner.  If we’d kept Austin and signed Gray rather than Hugill my hunch is that we’d still be top 2.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1840 on: November 29, 2021, 11:19:54 PM »
I'd say a good manager would walk in and be adaptable and play to their strengths or even just squeeze more out of the existing players like Cooper at Forest.
That's the same Forest & Cooper that we had out-shot by 14 attempts to 4 up to the point that Molumby was sent off?

gazberg

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1841 on: November 29, 2021, 11:44:25 PM »
That's the same Forest & Cooper that we had out-shot by 14 attempts to 4 up to the point that Molumby was sent off?

Most of our attempts are garbage though.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1842 on: November 29, 2021, 11:50:14 PM »
That's the same Forest & Cooper that we had out-shot by 14 attempts to 4 up to the point that Molumby was sent off?
yeah, we out shot them, 14 to 4 but what was the final score? Oh 0-0. We could have had 50 shots to their 4 but if we don't score it doesn't really matter! The only stat that counts in a game is the goals for and the goals against coulmn.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1843 on: November 30, 2021, 02:50:40 AM »
Turning out to be another poor appointment. Lose to Coventry and I expect he will be gone.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1844 on: November 30, 2021, 08:17:05 AM »
Most of our attempts are garbage though.

Precisely this.

We can shoot from 30 yards and whether it is blocked, on or off target it counts as a shot.

Folk continue to mention this shot count and celebrate it as a success and justification of what we’re doing. They never consider that the actual chances and level of football is extremely poor.

I think, from memory, against Forest we had one clear cut chance which was at the end of the game with Hugill

But the stats say we had 16 shots, regardless of whether they’re blocked, on/off target so it must be thoroughly entertaining..

It is poor.
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gazberg

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1845 on: November 30, 2021, 08:35:20 AM »
Turning out to be another poor appointment. Lose to Coventry and I expect he will be gone.

That's the crux of it really. Every appointment has failed at some level

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1846 on: November 30, 2021, 08:52:55 AM »
Precisely this.

We can shoot from 30 yards and whether it is blocked, on or off target it counts as a shot.

Folk continue to mention this shot count and celebrate it as a success and justification of what we’re doing. They never consider that the actual chances and level of football is extremely poor.

I think, from memory, against Forest we had one clear cut chance which was at the end of the game with Hugill

But the stats say we had 16 shots, regardless of whether they’re blocked, on/off target so it must be thoroughly entertaining..

It is poor.


There is an argument that says we lack creativity, IMO the number of shots we have disproves that argument.

The quality of our shots though is poor, even in the warm ups, the number of misses are incredibly high.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1847 on: November 30, 2021, 09:06:30 AM »
Most of our attempts are garbage though.
Your point was that Cooper/Forest = marvellous and Ismael/Albion = appalling, but how the game actually went didn't reflect this.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1848 on: November 30, 2021, 09:18:59 AM »
You can’t criticise us when we’re 2nd…

We’re still 3rd in the league…

We’re still 4th in the league…

It’s a horrible slippery slope when it starts…

He was criticised when we were second. He was criticised when we were third. He will continue to be criticised if he doesn't turn things around and rightly so should that be the case.
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #1849 on: November 30, 2021, 09:22:14 AM »
Precisely this.

We can shoot from 30 yards and whether it is blocked, on or off target it counts as a shot.

Folk continue to mention this shot count and celebrate it as a success and justification of what we’re doing. They never consider that the actual chances and level of football is extremely poor.

I think, from memory, against Forest we had one clear cut chance which was at the end of the game with Hugill

But the stats say we had 16 shots, regardless of whether they’re blocked, on/off target so it must be thoroughly entertaining..

It is poor.

Hugill, Furlong and Grant should all have been on the score sheet given very presentable chances. That's before we get to set pieces and our central defenders who simply aren't delivering.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.