Author Topic: contract extensions  (Read 2933 times)

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Albionic

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contract extensions
« on: August 05, 2021, 10:22:45 PM »
I know that a lot of us have been crying out for stability and a longer term plan, myself included, however the contract extensions announced today have me baffled.

I do not understand why players who have played in the premier league last season and struggled are getting extensions most especially older players,

In the event that the plan is achieved and we get back to the "survival league" in the next 2 years we will have aging aged players of insufficient capability with a year or 2 left on their contracts, makes no sense to me whatsoever. Furlong / Johnston I would get,  Bartley / Phillips I do not !
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wodenson46

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2021, 10:31:50 PM »
Do not get it myself, but just have to wait and see what happens. Gaffer has seen more of them recently than we have, holding extremely tightly to a handful of straws
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 10:32:58 PM by MarkW »

Albion79

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2021, 10:51:25 PM »
I dont think its as bad as some make out.

Furlong has his best years in front of him, he would seem to have the ideal credentials to be a success in an Ismael team, with Ismael signing a four year deal Furlong could play a big part of that.

I think Bartley suffers the same as Johnstone, they were very poor their first season and i think maybe that clouds judgement. Both were two of our better players last season, play to Bartleys strengths and he is fine, he has the odd mistake in him but so does every player.

Phillips can cover a few positions and on his day can do something special, maybe the extension is a year too long but in the championship at least he is a decent player to have.

Should they thrive and have good seasons, without extending their deals, we as fans would moan next summer they could leave for cheaper fees, we have just protected assets, if they are poor or look like they wont step up to the premier league should we get there, we can sell them for a decent fee.

Money is tight we know that, i would imagine we are covering ourself for plan B should we not go up this season, We got rid of a lot of players in the summer, we do need some stability, When players hit 30 nowadays its not the end of their career, you can sell still sell them for decent fees, Villa have just paid £25m for a 29 yr old!

Ismael said everyone has a clean slate and us fans maybe need to do that too, i think all of us do it, perhaps not intentionally, i know i do, but its a new era with somebody completely different to any recent managers and i would imagine he would of had a say on the players extension and approved it.

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2021, 10:57:46 PM »
Should they thrive and have good seasons, without extending their deals, we as fans would moan next summer they could leave for cheaper fees, we have just protected assets, if they are poor or look like they wont step up to the premier league should we get there, we can sell them for a decent fee.
2 of the players in question are already over 30. Who's going to pay decent fees for them at the end of the season?

baggiejohn

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2021, 11:02:25 PM »
I dont think its as bad as some make out.

Furlong has his best years in front of him, he would seem to have the ideal credentials to be a success in an Ismael team, with Ismael signing a four year deal Furlong could play a big part of that.

I think Bartley suffers the same as Johnstone, they were very poor their first season and i think maybe that clouds judgement. Both were two of our better players last season, play to Bartleys strengths and he is fine, he has the odd mistake in him but so does every player.

Phillips can cover a few positions and on his day can do something special, maybe the extension is a year too long but in the championship at least he is a decent player to have.

Should they thrive and have good seasons, without extending their deals, we as fans would moan next summer they could leave for cheaper fees, we have just protected assets, if they are poor or look like they wont step up to the premier league should we get there, we can sell them for a decent fee.

Money is tight we know that, i would imagine we are covering ourself for plan B should we not go up this season, We got rid of a lot of players in the summer, we do need some stability, When players hit 30 nowadays its not the end of their career, you can sell still sell them for decent fees, Villa have just paid £25m for a 29 yr old!

Ismael said everyone has a clean slate and us fans maybe need to do that too, i think all of us do it, perhaps not intentionally, i know i do, but its a new era with somebody completely different to any recent managers and i would imagine he would of had a say on the players extension and approved it.


I agree on the last paragraph, difficult to reconcile supporting the Head Coach & criticizing contract extensions for his players.

He's given ringing endorsements for every one.
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maccbaggie

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2021, 11:09:43 PM »
The contract extension for Matt Phillips and sale of Pereira for half of his value demonstrates why we need a Director of Football model. Relying on the judgement of the Head Coach in this way results in poor business decisions for the club in the long term.

wodenson46

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2021, 11:15:20 PM »
The contract extension for Matt Phillips and sale of Pereira for half of his value demonstrates why we need a Director of Football model. Relying on the judgement of the Head Coach in this way results in poor business decisions for the club in the long term.

Pretty much all of the DOF models we used in recent times might disprove this theory :D

Albion79

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2021, 11:20:15 PM »
I would imagine we would be able to sell Phillips or Bartley for £1-2m at least if we dont go up, they are both proven championship players who would walk into a number of teams in this league.

Covid may affect that again next summer but we should get a fee back which would cover at least the wages we have paid out extending their contracts.

They could also both play big parts if we do go up this season and it then looks good business extending their deals.

We have just covered our back, right now we are a championship club, if we go up then Ismael can decide if they can step up to the premier league, if they dont we should get a fee if we sell them on, we have given ourselves options.

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2021, 11:22:56 PM »
I would imagine we would be able to sell Phillips or Bartley for £1-2m at least if we dont go up, they are both proven championship players who would walk into a number of teams in this league.

Covid may affect that again next summer but we should get a fee back which would cover at least the wages we have paid out extending their contracts.

They could also both play big parts if we do go up this season and it then looks good business extending their deals.

We have just covered our back, right now we are a championship club, if we go up then Ismael can decide if they can step up to the premier league, if they dont we should get a fee if we sell them on, we have given ourselves options.

Nobody will pay anything for them, but more importantly won't match or increase their wages. We're stuck with them for the duration of these new contracts.
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baggiejohn

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2021, 11:24:12 PM »
The contract extension for Matt Phillips and sale of Pereira for half of his value demonstrates why we need a Director of Football model. Relying on the judgement of the Head Coach in this way results in poor business decisions for the club in the long term.

I would suggest it's only been rubber stamped by the head coach. The implications for the football club would have been debated at board level & approved by Ken.
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Albionic

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2021, 11:31:56 PM »

I agree on the last paragraph, difficult to reconcile supporting the Head Coach & criticizing contract extensions for his players.

He's given ringing endorsements for every one.

and thats a concern to me !!!
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baggiejohn

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2021, 11:37:59 PM »
and thats a concern to me !!!

See what happens tomorrow..............
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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2021, 12:04:16 AM »
Think it's madness rewarding players who let's be frank failed miserably in prem last season. Think the money would have been better spent on bringing in striker who knows where back of the net is. Big gamble by club and Val putting all their hopes on a team which is inferior than the one we had last time we were in championship
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 08:42:43 AM by LiamTheBaggie »

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2021, 08:51:47 AM »
I know that a lot of us have been crying out for stability and a longer term plan, myself included, however the contract extensions announced today have me baffled.

I do not understand why players who have played in the premier league last season and struggled are getting extensions most especially older players,

In the event that the plan is achieved and we get back to the "survival league" in the next 2 years we will have aging aged players of insufficient capability with a year or 2 left on their contracts, makes no sense to me whatsoever. Furlong / Johnston I would get,  Bartley / Phillips I do not !

Well we've offloaded the likes of Peltier, Austin, Ivanovitch, HRK, Field, Edwards and Harper and lost MP to normal football avarice.  Loanees such as Okay, Maitland-Niles and Gallagher have returned to their clubs. There aren't many clubs who can afford to or cope with replacement of ~50% of their entire squad season on season.  Maybe Phillips, Bartley and Furlong played under poor managers and VI thinks he can get better performances out of them.  I agree they struggled in the EPL but we're in the Championship.  I accept that some fans are impatient but I don't expect us to go straight up after one season  - it's a long-term project to change the way the club is run - so the players may be quite serviceable for a couple seasons. 
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Albionic

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2021, 09:23:33 AM »
See what happens tomorrow..............

That concerns me more, ITK?
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baggiejohn

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2021, 11:08:21 AM »
That concerns me more, ITK?

No, most of my comments are drawn from experiences in other management positions.

The product's different, but the model's the same.

Although I like the rhetoric from VI, & I am generally supportive of his structured approach, I'm concerned that if plan A fails, where's the evidence of plan B.

Football matches are often decided on fine lines, & the way, I interpret his philosophies, they appear to be one dimensional.

To win matches, we might need a bit of flair, flair players in any organisation are difficult to manage, I'm not convinced he's got that ability yet.

Just hope he proves me wrong, tonight will give us an indication.
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OhBilics

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2021, 11:28:01 AM »
As someone else said in another thread, these extensions make me think the management doesn't think we'll be promoted this season. I can't see they make any sense otherwise. The length of Phillips' extension is a joke in my view.

Nobody will pay anything for them, but more importantly won't match or increase their wages. We're stuck with them for the duration of these new contracts.
Exactly. The extensions will all include the usual pay increases if we get promoted, and if promotion happens the players won't want to let go of that, so anyone signing them would have to pay them PL-level wages, and they're Championship level players (perhaps with the exception of Bartley, who's okay for a lower level PL side).
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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2021, 02:15:01 PM »
An exercise in avoiding transfer fees as much as possible with no regards to the value those extensions will add to the club.

The Matt Phillips deal is incredibly stupid in my opinion.

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2021, 02:41:09 PM »
If he's aiming to use the kids, he must be thinking of ensuring some sort of experienced core. 

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2021, 04:45:52 PM »
Relying on the judgement of the Head Coach in this way results in poor business decisions for the club in the long term.
Several of your post suggest that you seem to have it in for Valerien before we've even played the first game. How do you know that he was instrumental in the contract extensions or the fee received for Pereira? He's been quoted regarding the players who've been given extensions, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he instigated them.

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2021, 04:48:33 PM »
I agree on the last paragraph, difficult to reconcile supporting the Head Coach & criticizing contract extensions for his players.

He's given ringing endorsements for every one.
He's not likely to criticise them in the circumstances is he?!

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2021, 06:19:46 PM »
We probably have reduced Matt's wages and spread over three years what we couldn't afford over two.

I hope I am wrong but I expect Matt to drop off again now in terms of performance.
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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2021, 02:40:42 PM »
We probably have reduced Matt's wages and spread over three years what we couldn't afford over two.

I hope I am wrong but I expect Matt to drop off again now in terms of performance.
Thought Phillips looked very sharp last night. Creates a lot of danger with his forward runs. But don't suppose that will stop his critics predicting the worst.

I think its more the question, can he perform for 90 minutes.
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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2021, 03:06:31 PM »
Thought Phillips looked very sharp last night. Creates a lot of danger with his forward runs. But don't suppose that will stop his critics predicting the worst.

I think its more the question, can he perform for 90 minutes.

I think in this position he will last longer in games if we need to start him but the running up and down the wing days are behind him. Can see him being a regular from the bench this season.
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mulliganstired

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Re: contract extensions
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2021, 03:42:03 PM »
Thought Phillips looked very sharp last night. Creates a lot of danger with his forward runs. But don't suppose that will stop his critics predicting the worst.

I think its more the question, can he perform for 90 minutes.
I think we may see him in this role quite often, subbed on against tiring defences to look for the gaps.  He does have a good footballing brain.