Author Topic: Dwight Gayle (at Newcastle)  (Read 234975 times)

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liverbaggie

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #375 on: February 14, 2019, 06:43:57 PM »
Just a question, how far back is retrospective?
Is it only the previous / last match?

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #376 on: February 14, 2019, 06:47:46 PM »
I hope both the EFL will give the same punishments on a regular basis then as around the leagues there will be numerous dives each weekend.


Agree, this now has to come to the forefront of their ongoing policies.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #377 on: February 14, 2019, 06:49:54 PM »
Typical though isn't, Mings stamps on someone's face and has form for it and gets away with it and DG gets a 2 game ban.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #378 on: February 14, 2019, 06:55:27 PM »
Somebody said we should accept the ban and then present all the other dives of the season to the FA. Seems bizarre that there has only been 2 retrospective bans for this?
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #379 on: February 14, 2019, 07:04:17 PM »
If the panel feel he dived then thats decision and we have to accept it whether we like it or not.

The law seems bizarre where it seems the simulation has to affect the play and the outcome of the game for it be reviewed with a view to punishment. Every single incident in the game affects the outcome so any possible dives / simulation, i hope the club are a complete nuisance to the FA and national media - talksport, sky sports, etc and are contacting them from now on a daily basis highlighting every possible incident from other games where this law applies.

No problem with trying to get cheating out the game but The FA have now set a precedent so lets make sure we remind them its stuck too no matter who the player is or who the club is.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #380 on: February 14, 2019, 07:11:39 PM »
Somebody said we should accept the ban and then present all the other dives of the season to the FA. Seems bizarre that there has only been 2 retrospective bans for this?


This is the 3rd since the law was introduced for something that is prevalent in the game.
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baggiejohn

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #381 on: February 14, 2019, 07:13:19 PM »
This is the ruling


Quote

THE FA HAS EXTENDED ITS POWERS TO PUNISH SIMULATION RETROSPECTIVELY FROM NEXT SEASON
Thursday 18 May 2017

The FA will be able to punish player simulation retrospectively during the 2017-18 season
The FA has extended its powers to punish simulation retrospectively.

A new offence of ‘Successful Deception of a Match Official’ will be in force from the start of the 2017-18 season, after the regulation change was approved by The FA Council today [18 May] and following a period of consultation with stakeholders over the past few months.

Where there is clear and overwhelming evidence to suggest a match official has been deceived by an act of simulation, and as a direct result, the offending player’s team has been awarded a penalty and/or an opposing player has been dismissed, The FA will be able to act retrospectively under its Fast Track system.

A panel consisting of one ex-match official, one ex-manager and one ex-player will be asked to review all available video footage of the incident independently of one another and then advise The FA as to whether they believe it was an offence of ‘Successful Deception of a Match Official’. Only in circumstances where the panel are unanimous would The FA charge the individual concerned.

This process would be similar to the one used now for a red card offence [violent conduct/serious foul play/spitting at an opponent] which was not seen at the time by the match officials but caught on camera. In this situation, three ex-elite match officials review all the available video footage independently of one another and then advise The FA as to whether they believe it was an offence worthy of instant dismissal.

In accepted and/or proven cases of simulation and/or feigning injury, the offending player would receive a two-match suspension.

Although attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled is a cautionable offence for unsporting behaviour, the fact that the act of simulation has succeeded in deceiving a match official and, therefore, led to a penalty and/or dismissal, justifies a more severe penalty which would act as a deterrent.

Should a charge of ‘Successful Deception of a Match Official’ be admitted or found proven, the Independent Regulatory Commission will have the power to rescind the caution or dismissal received by the opposing player as a result of the simulation if it chooses to do so.

The Fast Track system for dealing with incidents retrospectively, which was brought in by The FA for the start of the 2004-05 season, enables disciplinary cases to be dealt with prior to the offending player’s next competitive game.

Read more here

http://www.thefa.com/news/2017/may/18/fa-to-punish-simulation-retrospectively-180517
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #382 on: February 14, 2019, 07:23:45 PM »
I hope someone at the Albion now scrutinises every dive done by our rivals for the rest of the season. Massive incentive now to get other teams goal threat banned for 2 games.

The ironic thing is being banned against the villa probably worse for Forrest based on where they are in the table.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #383 on: February 14, 2019, 08:11:06 PM »
I hope someone at the Albion now scrutinises every dive done by our rivals for the rest of the season. Massive incentive now to get other teams goal threat banned for 2 games.

The ironic thing is being banned against the villa probably worse for Forrest based on where they are in the table.


Villa are no threat to Forest and will now be looking over their shoulders not upwards.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #384 on: February 14, 2019, 08:17:40 PM »
we need to beat these not only because of our woeful form but because they are well and truly awful.

gayle out so I guess if HRK isn't fit, we should be playing 2 out and out wingers
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #385 on: February 14, 2019, 09:10:57 PM »
I've sent the fa a email asking them why there's no concistecy in there decision making using Dwight gale and Mo sala as examples as this now opens a can of worms

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #386 on: February 14, 2019, 10:20:11 PM »
I've sent the fa a email asking them why there's no concistecy in there decision making using Dwight gale and Mo sala as examples as this now opens a can of worms

Be interested to hear their response. You always have the suspicion that they think they will encounter less hassle from a club like ours than if it was one of the so-called big clubs.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #387 on: February 14, 2019, 10:23:15 PM »
What about Vardy he should be up in front of Lancaster Gate every week

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #388 on: February 14, 2019, 10:53:31 PM »
might have been looking to rest him for QPR anyway, at least he should be fresh for sheff u.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #389 on: February 14, 2019, 11:30:19 PM »
 >:( Not convinced it wasn't a penalty. I did see some contact on Gayles' heel...maybe enough to off balance him.
Will be a big loss for us against the Vile....would like to see 2 wingers play...maybe Leko? we are going to be short in the goalscoring department for sure.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #390 on: February 15, 2019, 05:24:06 AM »
>:( Not convinced it wasn't a penalty. I did see some contact on Gayles' heel...maybe enough to off balance him.
Will be a big loss for us against the Vile....would like to see 2 wingers play...maybe Leko? we are going to be short in the goalscoring department for sure.

Even if there was contact and even if it was a foul, if you read the wording of the law there was still simulation.

baggiejohn

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #391 on: February 15, 2019, 08:39:38 AM »
Even if there was contact and even if it was a foul, if you read the wording of the law there was still simulation.

The decision making panel consists of an ex player, an ex official, & an ex coach who all see the evidence independently.  There has to be a unanimous decision to make a charge.
If there had been contact, it would have been a foul, & DG wouldn't have been charged.

I'm also not sure that fans understand, that the simulation accusation is conditional on the award of a penalty or to get another player sent off. Diving that doesn't result in either of the above is not subjected to the ruling. So,(for example) had the incident happened outside of the penalty area, & we had scored from the resultant free kick, the result would have been the same, but DG couldn't be charged under the ruling.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

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mulliganstired

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #392 on: February 15, 2019, 08:52:26 AM »
This opens a whole can of worms legalistically - what is the actual definition of "successful deception of match official"?  Rodriguez knew the ball had gone in off his hand against Villa, but he didn't say anything - is that "successful deception?" or just a lie of omission?

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #393 on: February 15, 2019, 08:56:43 AM »
This opens a whole can of worms legalistically - what is the actual definition of "successful deception of match official"?  Rodriguez knew the ball had gone in off his hand against Villa, but he didn't say anything - is that "successful deception?" or just a lie of omission?

Right to remain silent  ;D
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #394 on: February 15, 2019, 09:01:16 AM »
The decision making panel consists of an ex player, an ex official, & an ex coach who all see the evidence independently.  There has to be a unanimous decision to make a charge.
If there had been contact, it would have been a foul, & DG wouldn't have been charged.

I'm also not sure that fans understand, that the simulation accusation is conditional on the award of a penalty or to get another player sent off. Diving that doesn't result in either of the above is not subjected to the ruling. So,(for example) had the incident happened outside of the penalty area, & we had scored from the resultant free kick, the result would have been the same, but DG couldn't be charged under the ruling.

All this just emphasises the FA meddling and over complicating the joyously simple game of football. The laws of the game should apply exactly the same in a local Sunday League game as they do in professional football. Why is it therefore that we are getting trial by television? It's pathetic. In my view there are three qualified match officials out there in every game of football played, if the officials fail to spot an offence at the time during play then I'm afraid it's just tough titties. Like it or not, trying to gain an advantage has been part of the game since the day it was invented, it's part of any sport, always has been always will be, I cant see the problem.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #395 on: February 15, 2019, 11:39:56 AM »
All this just emphasises the FA meddling and over complicating the joyously simple game of football. The laws of the game should apply exactly the same in a local Sunday League game as they do in professional football. Why is it therefore that we are getting trial by television? It's pathetic. In my view there are three qualified match officials out there in every game of football played, if the officials fail to spot an offence at the time during play then I'm afraid it's just tough titties. Like it or not, trying to gain an advantage has been part of the game since the day it was invented, it's part of any sport, always has been always will be, I cant see the problem.

I do tend to agree. With retrospective bans and VAR the FA are basically admitting that their referees aren't up to refereeing a game of football adequately over 90 minutes. Which either suggests their expectations are too high, or their referees are sh*te.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #396 on: February 15, 2019, 12:06:48 PM »
I do tend to agree. With retrospective bans and VAR the FA are basically admitting that their referees aren't up to refereeing a game of football adequately over 90 minutes. Which either suggests their expectations are too high, or their referees are sh*te.

Football is behind the times, pretty much every other major sport has a video ref at the elite level.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #397 on: February 15, 2019, 02:21:18 PM »
Football is behind the times, pretty much every other major sport has a video ref at the elite level.

Trouble is, football is a free flowing game, infringements are always open to individual interpretation and opinions. It's not like cricket where a video umpire can check LBW decisions, the ball is either going to hit the stumps or it's not, or in tennis with Hawk Eye where it quite clearly shows the ball is either in or out. There are no grey areas in those instances, it's simple and effective. In those instances in other sports the ball has already gone dead so there is no unnecessary hold up. VAR has proved that no matter how many times incidents are reviewed in ultra slow motion, people still don't agree, it's still down to how one person sees it and interprets it. That's just how it is with football, it's what makes the game so fascinating, entertaining and interesting. All this trial by television, VAR, retrospective bans, etc will drive traditional supporters away from the game in their droves. Let the referees and linesmen officiate and just accept that in football that is how it is. Moving with the times just for the sake of it and because everyone else is doing it doesn't always mean it's for the best. If a player dives then so be it, it's up to the referee to spot it and punish accordingly.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #398 on: February 15, 2019, 02:23:43 PM »
Trouble is, football is a free flowing game, infringements are always open to individual interpretation and opinions. It's not like cricket where a video umpire can check LBW decisions, the ball is either going to hit the stumps or it's not, or in tennis with Hawk Eye where it quite clearly shows the ball is either in or out. There are no grey areas in those instances, it's simple and effective. In those instances in other sports the ball has already gone dead so there is no unnecessary hold up. VAR has proved that no matter how many times incidents are reviewed in ultra slow motion, people still don't agree, it's still down to how one person sees it and interprets it. That's just how it is with football, it's what makes the game so fascinating, entertaining and interesting. All this trial by television, VAR, retrospective bans, etc will drive traditional supporters away from the game in their droves. Let the referees and linesmen officiate and just accept that in football that is how it is. Moving with the times just for the sake of it and because everyone else is doing it doesn't always mean it's for the best. If a player dives then so be it, it's up to the referee to spot it and punish accordingly.


Amen. Commonsense at last. Please forward to all media outlets, FIFA and the FA.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #399 on: February 15, 2019, 02:48:10 PM »
As soon as the ref blows his whistle the game is dead and they should be able to review a decision or refer one if required.

I like how Rugby do it, let the game flow then the ref queries items in the run up to the try/penaulty try situation. Anything else is let go, unless a card is required which the video ref can check while the game flows.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 02:50:07 PM by BoingFlyer »
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