Author Topic: Darren Moore  (Read 844495 times)

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johnny Cash

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2400 on: December 28, 2018, 05:59:10 PM »
So he managed to keep the squad together to give us a first team that you think means we should be top 2 - yet you give him no credit. He signs Gayle and Barnes on loan - yet no credit for picking them and convincing them to come to us. What he does get is a hard time for the short term signings of Sako etc that have cost the club very little and were clearly signed to give the squad the depth we need in the short term.

Joke in my view. This is why I despair.

Now if you’d said that we shouldn’t have signed some of those players and instead utilised the youth a bit more then I’d have probably agreed with you.

I despair that you think it’s acceptable for a side that has 8 players who would walk in to every other first 11 in the league, to finish outside the top two.

frazzle

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2401 on: December 28, 2018, 06:32:10 PM »
I despair that you think it’s acceptable for a side that has 8 players who would walk in to every other first 11 in the league, to finish outside the top two.

But no credit to him for keeping the squad together. Unbelievable.

Two things - I’d love to know who the 8 players are that you think would walk into any other team as many people on here, maybe even you I don’t know, don’t seem to rate any combination of our keeper, Hegazi, Tosin, Livermore, Brunt, JRod, Kanu, Burke. Very few wanted us to keep Morrison, we all thought Barry was unlikely to do much. Bartley had a poor start and his temporary signings have had a hard time. So other than maybe Gibbs, Barnes and Gayle - two of which were signed by Moore can I reminded you - who are the eight?

Now that Moore has got them performing really well have we suddenly reset expectations so that all he can do is get automatic or he has failed, and completely disregard what a great job he has done from turning them from the shambles they were last year to the top class, hard working and motivated team that they are now?

Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but sometimes the way a team is managed can have an impact on how they perform. Look at us last year. Look at Man Utd this year.

Did you think at the start of this season that we would walk the league as you now suggest we should?

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2402 on: December 28, 2018, 06:42:54 PM »
But no credit to him for keeping the squad together. Unbelievable.

Two things - I’d love to know who the 8 players are that you think would walk into any other team as many people on here, maybe even you I don’t know, don’t seem to rate any combination of our keeper, Hegazi, Tosin, Livermore, Brunt, JRod, Kanu, Burke. Very few wanted us to keep Morrison, we all thought Barry was unlikely to do much. Bartley had a poor start and his temporary signings have had a hard time. So other than maybe Gibbs, Barnes and Gayle - two of which were signed by Moore can I reminded you - who are the eight?

Now that Moore has got them performing really well have we suddenly reset expectations so that all he can do is get automatic or he has failed, and completely disregard what a great job he has done from turning them from the shambles they were last year to the top class, hard working and motivated team that they are now?

Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but sometimes the way a team is managed can have an impact on how they perform. Look at us last year. Look at Man Utd this year.

Did you think at the start of this season that we would walk the league as you now suggest we should?


This part I think is pretty obvious, all of the now preferred starting XI except the goalkeeper, Tosin and my assumption would be  Livermore.
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frazzle

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2403 on: December 28, 2018, 07:16:58 PM »

This part I think is pretty obvious, all of the now preferred starting XI except the goalkeeper, Tosin and my assumption would be  Livermore.

Weird. You can’t stand JRod :)

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2404 on: December 28, 2018, 07:41:21 PM »
can we ban people from the forum who are coming out with drivel about moore not being good enough etc... stupid comments! we're 3rd!!!

Not a chance, its why the forum is here. If everyone had the same views then there would be no point in having a forum.
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TheJacko2000

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2405 on: December 28, 2018, 07:41:45 PM »
Weird. You can’t stand JRod :)


Not really weird, my stance on Rodriguez is he isn't as good as Gayle who we are sidelining out wide to accommodate the inferior player, much like Hodgson stupidly did with our best player in the last 35 years, Peter Odemwingie (for Shane Long).
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frazzle

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2406 on: December 28, 2018, 07:44:06 PM »

Not really weird, my stance on Rodriguez is he isn't as good as Gayle who we are sidelining out wide to accommodate the inferior player, much like Hodgson stupidly did with our best player in the last 35 years, Peter Odemwingie (for Shane Long).

You were on JRods back for most of his time with us if I remember but never mind. And there’s no way odemwingie was our best player of the last 35 years - you’ve forgotten Kevin Steggles.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2407 on: December 28, 2018, 10:13:18 PM »

Not really weird, my stance on Rodriguez is he isn't as good as Gayle who we are sidelining out wide to accommodate the inferior player, much like Hodgson stupidly did with our best player in the last 35 years, Peter Odemwingie (for Shane Long).

Odemwingie still played a fair bit under hodgson.
Steve Clarke completely bombed him out for long and the on loan Lukaku.
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TheJacko2000

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2408 on: December 28, 2018, 10:44:33 PM »
Odemwingie still played a fair bit under hodgson.
Steve Clarke completely bombed him out for long and the on loan Lukaku.


Yes he did wide right...
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2409 on: December 29, 2018, 12:37:20 AM »
I think Darren Moore is a great bloke and I am so pleased that we are doing well. I don’t care how he comes across to some people in interviews, he is Albion through and through. So pleased to have him than some other merry-go-round manager with no affinity to our Club. If you said to me before the season that we would be third after Christmas, I would have been sceptical. Why are some people moaning? We have had more entertainment and goals this season than in the last two or three put together. Yes, occasionally we’ll slip up but overall, there is much to celebrate. Just go and enjoy it.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2410 on: December 29, 2018, 09:14:06 AM »
It was just a joke. Kevin Steggoes, Barry Cowdrill, Stuart Evans, etc all from the mid to late 80s when I started following Albion. There was also a big striker called George Riley I think. Every one of them appalling and I remember sitting in the old family stand at the corner of the halfords and the brummie hearing fans refer to Stuart Evans as 'the plank'. It took Brian Talbots arrival to give me any sense of what success must be like.

Jacko is from roughly the same era as me so it was just a joke. Not winding anyone up.
I think his comment/question was aimed at 59 rather than you.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2411 on: December 29, 2018, 11:04:59 AM »
Played 6 games in the prem.
Played 24 in championship.
Total under Dave 30 matches.
Lost 6.
when you think of the turmoil the club was in with Pulis and Pardew ,he has performed his job in a remarkable and humble way and to be 3rd in the league at halfway is a fantastic effort by him and his team of coaches.
Well played and thanks for the entertainment mate.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2412 on: December 29, 2018, 11:20:42 AM »
Excellent post. I don’t think Tavernier will ever happen.

Neither do I, but I expect a right back (no idea who) to be brought in in the coming weeks.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2413 on: December 29, 2018, 11:48:43 AM »
I despair that you think it’s acceptable for a side that has 8 players who would walk in to every other first 11 in the league, to finish outside the top two.

Gayle, Philips, Barnes and possibly Gibbs (in that order of likelihood) are probably the only players you could say would 'walk' into any side in the division.

Hegazi, Dawson, Barry, Livermore and Johnstone are as good as what just about anybody else has in their team, but none would walk into Stoke's or Middlesbrough's first XI's, for example. IMO Stoke are as strong as us in defence and while our wingers are stronger and we have a better striker, they are likewise (with Allen, Woods, Etebo and Clucas) better than us in central midfield. We could easily have been sitting where they are currently if DM had not carried out such a superb job, make no mistake about it.

If the club finish the season with a 2 point per game average on 92 points they will be very unlucky to not be promoted. They're are currently only 4 points off that, but I expect them to do slightly better in the second half of the season than they did in the first, so I think they will just reach that target.

That we are in such a good position is in many ways remarkable and DM deserves immense credit for that.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2414 on: December 29, 2018, 12:10:16 PM »
Gayle, Philips, Barnes and possibly Gibbs (in that order of likelihood) are probably the only players you could say would 'walk' into any side in the division.

Hegazi, Dawson, Barry, Livermore and Johnstone are as good as what just about anybody else has in their team, but none would walk into Stoke's or Middlesbrough's first XI's, for example. IMO Stoke are as strong as us in defence and while our wingers are stronger and we have a better striker, they are likewise (with Allen, Woods, Etebo and Clucas) better than us in central midfield.


Randolf, Flint, Ayala, Fry - Boro’s defence and keeper on Boxing Day.  Dawson, Hegazi, Johnstone all play in that.

I have literally looked through all the starting line ups from Boxing Day. Stoke have the most players who I think would get in our side with 4, the keeper and three central midfielders (not as a three but as individuals).. Dawson and hegazi definitely play over Shawcross and Williams though who are spent.




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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2415 on: December 29, 2018, 05:34:56 PM »
Moore's greatest coaching strength seems to be the charatcer his sides show. The character at the end of last season has carried over into the first half of this season, with us never being finished until the final whistle goes.

Some of his tactical decisions are just plain not working, his squad selection at times being the main culprit, and I feel only a select group of players stand any chance of getting game time under him (the academy seems redundant), but we are 5 points off the top and 2 off the automatic places going in to 2019.

He is doing a lot better than I expected. Just hope we can keep Gayle fit, keep Barnes full stop and aquire 2 or 3 new players in January. If we do all of the above, there is every chance we could go up this year in one of the most competetive divisions i've ever seen.
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2416 on: December 29, 2018, 06:18:16 PM »
Our squad is limited, not so much the first eleven, who are all of a decent standard at this level, but by depth. Our bench never looks up to much really, so I will expect a bit of a blip once injuries and suspensions kick in, which they are starting to do now. Nevertheless, this isn't DM's fault as he inherited the squad. Our loans have generally been of a good standard and, as we didn't have much of a scouting system and no assistant manager at the end of last season, I think DM has to take credit for these as well.
It takes time to adapt to the Championship as many relegated teams have found out. We finished below Stoke and Swansea remember, and we find ourselves 11 and 13 points ahead of these two teams, despite them spending more money than us. As a bonus, we are also above Villa.
We have had to put up with dreadful entertainment and hopeless ineptitude respectively under our last 2 managers, leaving the team in poor shape before DM took over. In a short space of time he has fixed both the entertainment and ineptitude problems, and has us playing effective football which is very good to watch, even if it is a bit heart in mouth on occasions. The players seem happy and are playing as a team again.
As has been said many times by DM himself, we are a work in progress, but he has done remarkably well so far.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 06:26:21 PM by timdon »

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2417 on: December 29, 2018, 06:26:52 PM »
Matt Wilson Twitter account:

Owls caretaker Lee Bullen on Moore's triple sub. "He did it with us at home as well. He took of his two top scorers and we were thinking 'what's he doing?' But they came back and drew 2-2. He works his subs alright!"
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2418 on: December 29, 2018, 06:31:08 PM »
Our squad is limited, not so much the first eleven, who are all of a decent standard at this level, but by depth. Our bench never looks up to much really, so I will expect a bit of a blip once injuries and suspensions kick in, which they are starting to do now. Nevertheless, this isn't DM's fault as he inherited the squad. Our loans have generally been of a good standard and, as we didn't have much of a scouting system and no assistant manager at the end of last season, I think DM has to take credit for these as well.
It takes time to adapt to the Championship as many relegated teams have found out. We finished below Stoke and Swansea remember, and we find ourselves 11 and 13 points ahead of these two teams, despite them spending more money than us. As a bonus, we are also above Villa.
We have had to put up with dreadful entertainment and hopeless ineptitude respectively under our last 2 managers, leaving the team in poor shape before DM took over. In a short space of time he has fixed both the entertainment and ineptitude problems, and has us playing effective football which is very good to watch, even if it is a bit heart in mouth on occasions. The players seem happy and are playing as a team again.
As has been said many times by DM himself, we are a work in progress, but he has done remarkably well so far.
Great post.I could not have put it better.He has had to deal with a very difficult situation. I really hope the "Board" back him in January.
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2419 on: December 29, 2018, 06:35:21 PM »
Matt Wilson Twitter account:

Owls caretaker Lee Bullen on Moore's triple sub. "He did it with us at home as well. He took of his two top scorers and we were thinking 'what's he doing?' But they came back and drew 2-2. He works his subs alright!"
"last roll of the dice" triple subs are all very well, but he doesn't seem to like making adjustments - I don't want to be too critical, I love the team spirit he has got going, so it's an A- from me generally.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2420 on: December 29, 2018, 06:35:58 PM »
Our squad is limited, not so much the first eleven, who are all of a decent standard at this level, but by depth. Our bench never looks up to much really, so I will expect a bit of a blip once injuries and suspensions kick in, which they are starting to do now. Nevertheless, this isn't DM's fault as he inherited the squad. Our loans have generally been of a good standard and, as we didn't have much of a scouting system and no assistant manager at the end of last season, I think DM has to take credit for these as well.
It takes time to adapt to the Championship as many relegated teams have found out. We finished below Stoke and Swansea remember, and we find ourselves 11 and 13 points ahead of these two teams, despite them spending more money than us. As a bonus, we are also above Villa.
We have had to put up with dreadful entertainment and hopeless ineptitude respectively under our last 2 managers, leaving the team in poor shape before DM took over. In a short space of time he has fixed both the entertainment and ineptitude problems, and has us playing effective football which is very good to watch, even if it is a bit heart in mouth on occasions. The players seem happy and are playing as a team again.
As has been said many times by DM himself, we are a work in progress, but he has done remarkably well so far.
I actually think we should be doing a lot better, first he persisted with a formation that wasn't working then he fell into a 433 after a drubbing by Derby. Second he persisted with Brunt in central midfield when we never employed him in his prime. Third his insistence on playing Gayle out wide to accommodate an ineffective Rodriguez fourth lack of using his bench to rest our more influential players

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2421 on: December 29, 2018, 06:59:27 PM »
I actually think we should be doing a lot better, first he persisted with a formation that wasn't working then he fell into a 433 after a drubbing by Derby. Second he persisted with Brunt in central midfield when we never employed him in his prime. Third his insistence on playing Gayle out wide to accommodate an ineffective Rodriguez fourth lack of using his bench to rest our more influential players
Let me re-write your post from a slightly more positive perspective.

I actually think we are doing way better than many people expected. When he found that his first choice formation wasn't working, he gave it a decent chance to improve and then changed it to 433 which worked much better. He tried Brunt in central midfield and persisted with him there because he was of the strong opinion that Brunt could play that role. However, he was big enough to admit that he was wrong eventually and now only plays him there if we have injuries or suspensions. He tried to accommodate both Gayle and Rodriguez into the team, as they are our best goal scorers. In the 433 that works for us, this means one of them has to play less centrally, which isn't ideal but is worth a try. In an ideal world, I'm sure he would like to rotate the squad more but is limited by the lack of depth in it, which will hopefully be addressed in January, with further strengthening in the summer.

All about interpretation and expectations. You're focusing on the things that could be improved (which is perfectly fine), whilst I'm focusing on the massive strides we have made in half a season. There's no reason to think that we won't continue to progress, if folk can just have a bit of patience.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2422 on: December 29, 2018, 07:04:43 PM »
Moore's greatest coaching strength seems to be the charatcer his sides show. The character at the end of last season has carried over into the first half of this season, with us never being finished until the final whistle goes.

Some of his tactical decisions are just plain not working, his squad selection at times being the main culprit, and I feel only a select group of players stand any chance of getting game time under him (the academy seems redundant), but we are 5 points off the top and 2 off the automatic places going in to 2019.

He is doing a lot better than I expected. Just hope we can keep Gayle fit, keep Barnes full stop and aquire 2 or 3 new players in January. If we do all of the above, there is every chance we could go up this year in one of the most competetive divisions i've ever seen.

With regard to your point about the academy if I was in charge of it I would have resigned immediately after the Rotherham away game when he chose not to give Harper at least 10 mins at the end preferring Brunt and Morrison instead . It must have been heartbreaking for the kid . If we can’t bring a kid on when four up then there’s not much hope for the academy despite the club having told us how wonderful it is for the last 10 years .

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2423 on: December 29, 2018, 07:22:37 PM »
Let me re-write your post from a slightly more positive perspective.

I actually think we are doing way better than many people expected. When he found that his first choice formation wasn't working, he gave it a decent chance to improve and then changed it to 433 which worked much better. He tried Brunt in central midfield and persisted with him there because he was of the strong opinion that Brunt could play that role. However, he was big enough to admit that he was wrong eventually and now only plays him there if we have injuries or suspensions. He tried to accommodate both Gayle and Rodriguez into the team, as they are our best goal scorers. In the 433 that works for us, this means one of them has to play less centrally, which isn't ideal but is worth a try. In an ideal world, I'm sure he would like to rotate the squad more but is limited by the lack of depth in it, which will hopefully be addressed in January, with further strengthening in the summer.

All about interpretation and expectations. You're focusing on the things that could be improved (which is perfectly fine), whilst I'm focusing on the massive strides we have made in half a season. There's no reason to think that we won't continue to progress, if folk can just have a bit of patience.

Never has been, never will be a centre midfielder, i've been banging the drum for over 9 years since it was first tried in a friendly at Coventry under RDM, didn't work then, hasn't worked in any game under any manager. Darren Moore has seen enough of those from the sideline yet even now persists with it when he has better and more natural options on the bench whether that be Hoolahan and Harper today or Field on other occasions. Shoehorning a bloke in for set-pieces which to be honest have dropped off massively in recent seasons are not a good enough reason.

He needs to start trusting the kids and realise this is a squad game not just a 14 man game. Its the only fault I have with Darren Moore (apart from the distaster that is Bartley), he needs to start trusting others. Field has done well in the Premier League in the midfield yet Moore has given him very little chance this season in that position. If he don't rate him or the others send them out on loan and stick a 16 year old on the bench to fill the role of the youngster we have to put in there.
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2424 on: December 29, 2018, 08:19:46 PM »
of the past 3 managers we've had i thought Moore would be the most likely to involve the younger players with him having spent a time coaching the youths with  James Shan. We had Field and Leko getting game time in the premiership and would naturally have thought they'd both develop into 1st team players but it seems they're careers have stalled. include Harper and Burke with those two and obvious they ain't going to get used much here, may aswel loan them out to get more experience.personally I think we've wasted what talent the academy has produced for a long time and makes we wonder if it's worth all the investment it gets.
we've got two ex academy players playing for league leaders Leeds as an example.