[stoxman]

Hi all,

Does anyone know what scouting network we now have?  I’m thinking both the formal full-time scouts and also part timers dotted around the country/ Europe/ world?   We used to be so good at finding the Gera/ Odemwingie/ Koren types from abroad and the Hughes types from non league.   Is that network still out there?

[gazberg]

Data led scouting were the words from the clubs own mouth i believe.

[bennybreakaway]

Ian Pearce playing Football Manager then

[gazberg]

Ian Pearce playing Football Manager then

Playing it very badly on top.

[JMullen95]

Ian Pearce playing Football Manager then

He’s probably never even heard of the game, it would be way too technical for him. Pearce’s list of potential targets is most likely compiled from watching Match of the Day on BBC I player on catch up.

[stoxman]

A real shame if that’s all we have.  I’m a big fan of data and I believe in the moneyball principles but there must be lots that fall through the net.   We may never have found Molumby (or Molumbu/ Okay/ Jacob) based on stats (other than yellow cards!). 

[alex1]

Stats are important, but they can only get you so far.  Stats can't pick up the fine detail, like how Yokuslu turns 180 degree on the ball and by-passes 2 immediate markers. Regardless of what job title they get given, we need proper 'football men' who are experienced enough to spot talent when they see it. In the ideal world,  they would be someone with an Albion pedigree.

[baggie82]

Hi all,

Does anyone know what scouting network we now have?  I’m thinking both the formal full-time scouts and also part timers dotted around the country/ Europe/ world?   We used to be so good at finding the Gera/ Odemwingie/ Koren types from abroad and the Hughes types from non league.   Is that network still out there?

It is easy to look back at some of the tremendous signings from the Ashworth era which rose tinted glasses that we picked them up from nowhere for pennies, which was far from the case.

We signed both Zoltan Gera and Odemwingie when we were in the premiership. Zoltan was already established in the Hungarian national team and Odemwingie had already played champions league football and had previously been sold to Lokomotiv Moscow for $14m USD. Both were established big time players in their own right before we signed them. They were not hidden gems or the sorts of players who would ever have been available to championship sides without a budget, which is where we now find ourselves. On a similar basis Robert Koren was one of the highest rated players in the Norwegian Premier League at Lillestrom and had played numerous times for Slovakia before we signed him on a bosman.

I don't disagree that we need to be finding the best players we can at basement prices but let's also acknowledge the limitations of doing that as a mid-table championship club without a budget.

[MarkW]

It is easy to look back at some of the tremendous signings from the Ashworth era which rose tinted glasses that we picked them up from nowhere for pennies, which was far from the case.

We signed both Zoltan Gera and Odemwingie when we were in the premiership. Zoltan was already established in the Hungarian national team and Odemwingie had already played champions league football and had previously been sold to Lokomotiv Moscow for $14m USD. Both were established big time players in their own right before we signed them. They were not hidden gems or the sorts of players who would ever have been available to championship sides without a budget, which is where we now find ourselves. On a similar basis Robert Koren was one of the highest rated players in the Norwegian Premier League at Lillestrom and had played numerous times for Slovakia before we signed him on a bosman.

I don't disagree that we need to be finding the best players we can at basement prices but let's also acknowledge the limitations of doing that as a mid-table championship club without a budget.

Do you think our current setup would even think to look at the Norwegian league or the Hungarian national team? Our transfer business has been so uninspired recently that I really don't think we'd have looked at a player of Gera's or Koren's ilk if they came about now.

Also, Koren was Slovenian. Marek Cech was Slovakian.

[baggie82]

Do you think our current setup would even think to look at the Norwegian league or the Hungarian national team? Our transfer business has been so uninspired recently that I really don't think we'd have looked at a player of Gera's or Koren's ilk if they came about now.

Also, Koren was Slovenian. Marek Cech was Slovakian.

I don't think we could attract that calibre of player in our present state, unfortunately. Bear in mind that back in 2003-2010 a lot of the competition and clubs with bigger budgets overlooked the same leagues, but not anymore. Even back in 2004 we weren't signing Zoltan Gera as a championship club.

The one positive to take is that Corberan already has his transfer targets in mind.

[Maresca Was A Baggie]

Read the newspaper and see who we are linked with?

[MarkW]

I don't think we could attract that calibre of player in our present state, unfortunately. Bear in mind that back in 2003-2010 a lot of the competition and clubs with bigger budgets overlooked the same leagues, but not anymore. Even back in 2004 we weren't signing Zoltan Gera as a championship club.

The one positive to take is that Corberan already has his transfer targets in mind.

I'm not necessarily saying we have to look at those leagues, because I agree that the likes of the Hungarian national team is now much more high profile than they were 20 years ago - they're in the top level of the Nation's League!

But it's still in our interests to find players who don't cost the earth by looking in areas others aren't. It is definitely much harder because we're much more constrained financially than at any point... probably since we got promoted by Megson the first time round. But it's either that or more "free" agent has-beens that provide no sell-on opportunity

[overseas baggie]

I'm not necessarily saying we have to look at those leagues, because I agree that the likes of the Hungarian national team is now much more high profile than they were 20 years ago - they're in the top level of the Nation's League!

But it's still in our interests to find players who don't cost the earth by looking in areas others aren't. It is definitely much harder because we're much more constrained financially than at any point... probably since we got promoted by Megson the first time round. But it's either that or more "free" agent has-beens that provide no sell-on opportunity

Unfortunately with Brexit many of the players that we could now afford from Europe  would no longer be eligible for a work permit.  It massively reduces our target market

[MarkW]

Unfortunately with Brexit many of the players that we could now afford from Europe  would no longer be eligible for a work permit.  It massively reduces our target market

It changes the markets, yes. But again, it opens up opportunities outside of Europe, as I have pointed out elsewhere, such as clubs in Copa Libertadores or SudaAmerica, or in the the J or K Leagues.

[baggiejohn]

I cannot disagree with any of the above arguments & counter arguments, & clearly our decision to leave the EU has reduced our scope for new players.

We spoke earlier about strategies, is it Ian Pearce that setting the strategic parameters or is it coming from above him?

[SmethDan]

On a general point it's probably a good job for Swansea and Coventry's sakes they didn't bother trying to scout or recruit Piroe and Gyokeres from European leagues. What a waste of time and money that would have been in a post Brexit world. Them and their tiny scouting budgets. And as for Luton and their hopes of punching above their financial weight..... pah, can't be done in the modern age where everyone uses the same data bases. Nothing to see here everyone, move along please.

[SmethDan]

Stats are important, but they can only get you so far.........

Agreed, about a Furlong in some cases.

[ex coseley kid]

This is our scouting system.

[tuamigos]

I think we should have a case under the trades description act regarding our 'Scouting'

[overseas baggie]

On a general point it's probably a good job for Swansea and Coventry's sakes they didn't bother trying to scout or recruit Piroe and Gyokeres from European leagues. What a waste of time and money that would have been in a post Brexit world. Them and their tiny scouting budgets. And as for Luton and their hopes of punching above their financial weight..... pah, can't be done in the modern age where everyone uses the same data bases. Nothing to see here everyone, move along please.

That makes no sense.  Gyokeres was already in the UK with Brighton prior to Brexit, when Coventry signed him from Brighton and loan and then bought him for £1m.  He was recruited from within the UK.

[Standaman]

It is very difficult to tie down exactly what resources we have in terms of scouts and analysts. I suspect not much our recruitment has been manager lead for the better part of a decade and we have regressed to the point where Steve Bruce was hiring his next door neighbour and relying on tips from his son-in-law last summer.

Other clubs have are now light years ahead us and not just the wealthier clubs. During this time we have had successes but that is in spite of the process not because of it.

Let's address the issue of money. Good scouting and analytics cost money but the money it saves from bad signings let alone the potential profit from good ones far outweighs anything that we might spend. In point of fact the less there is in the player budget the better the scouting operation needs to be.

While we have Gourlay in charge it isn't going to change.  We will lean very heavily on Corberan who saints preserve us is reviewing video footage of those loaned out last term to see how they might fit into his squad and talking to the press about the work that needs to happen over the summer.

I admire his dedication but this is the sort of task that should be in a Dof remit and right now he needs a break I suspect burn-out is a real possibility. Of course we don't have a DoF a clue or even much of a prayer.

[overseas baggie]

It is very difficult to tie down exactly what resources we have in terms of scouts and analysts. I suspect not much our recruitment has been manager lead for the better part of a decade and we have regressed to the point where Steve Bruce was hiring his next door neighbour and relying on tips from his son-in-law last summer.

Other clubs have are now light years ahead us and not just the wealthier clubs. During this time we have had successes but that is in spite of the process not because of it.

Let's address the issue of money. Good scouting and analytics cost money but the money it saves from bad signings let alone the potential profit from good ones far outweighs anything that we might spend. In point of fact the less there is in the player budget the better the scouting operation needs to be.

While we have Gourlay in charge it isn't going to change.  We will lean very heavily on Corberan who saints preserve us is reviewing video footage of those loaned out last term to see how they might fit into his squad and talking to the press about the work that needs to happen over the summer.

I admire his dedication but this is the sort of task that should be in a Dof remit and right now he needs a break I suspect burn-out is a real possibility. Of course we don't have a DoF a clue or even much of a prayer.

If Big Dave gets sacked at Wednesday it would be interesting to consider him for our DoF role.  He certainly should be well aware of any players in League One - the most likely source for our recruitment. 

[SmethDan]

That makes no sense.  Gyokeres was already in the UK with Brighton prior to Brexit, when Coventry signed him from Brighton and loan and then bought him for £1m.  He was recruited from within the UK.

Fair points re Gyorkeres and well made. That'll teach me for not doing my research before making a number of off the cuff statements in a general comment aimed at no one in particular  .

Taken in deeper context what's nonsensical about suggesting there are still deals to be had from Europe in a post Brexit world when Swansea have recruited the uncapped Dutch born Piroe from the Eredivisie?

I haven't researched his background either so feel free to shoot that one down at your leisure. I won't get upset if you suggest I'm talking nonsense by the way.

As for Luton, having not delved into their budget for scouting and recruitment I believe they've made some shrewd signings in recent years. These won't have come about by accident and their position in the table won't be solely down to Rob Edwards.

They've recruited a manager whose style of play fits the squad they've already recruited. There's nothing nonsensical about that and it's the kind of joined up thinking we should apply to our own recruitment.

Why did I pluck Luton out of the air? Because of their position in the table which has been achieved on a budget presumably lower than the ones we've had at our disposal for years pooh poohing suggestions wim doomed to failure because our parachute payments have run dry.

For further reference see Coventry and some of the bargain basement players there who are delivering more than some of our own poorly and lazily recruited players have enabling Gyorkeres to showcase his talents.

With luck and a fair wind yesterday's post will now make more sense. But the point remains that there are still deals out there to be made. To suggest otherwise would quite frankly be a total and utter nonsense. Now if you'll excuse me I'm off for my morning workout. Seize the day  .

[skyclad99]

If Big Dave gets sacked at Wednesday it would be interesting to consider him for our DoF role.  He certainly should be well aware of any players in League One - the most likely source for our recruitment.

Would be harsh if he is sacked but thats not a bad shout.

Lets just hope he can find the goals at home, god knows what happened there........

EDIT: just been on Owls Talk and they all want him out, so you may get your wish

[ABaggie]

Fair points re Gyorkeres and well made. That'll teach me for not doing my research before making a number of off the cuff statements in a general comment aimed at no one in particular  .

Taken in deeper context what's nonsensical about suggesting there are still deals to be had from Europe in a post Brexit world when Swansea have recruited the uncapped Dutch born Piroe from the Eredivisie?

I haven't researched his background either so feel free to shoot that one down at your leisure. I won't get upset if you suggest I'm talking nonsense by the way.

As for Luton, having not delved into their budget for scouting and recruitment I believe they've made some shrewd signings in recent years. These won't have come about by accident and their position in the table won't be solely down to Rob Edwards.

They've recruited a manager whose style of play fits the squad they've already recruited. There's nothing nonsensical about that and it's the kind of joined up thinking we should apply to our own recruitment.

Why did I pluck Luton out of the air? Because of their position in the table which has been achieved on a budget presumably lower than the ones we've had at our disposal for years pooh poohing suggestions wim doomed to failure because our parachute payments have run dry.

For further reference see Coventry and some of the bargain basement players there who are delivering more than some of our own poorly and lazily recruited players have enabling Gyorkeres to showcase his talents.

With luck and a fair wind yesterday's post will now make more sense. But the point remains that there are still deals out there to be made. To suggest otherwise would quite frankly be a total and utter nonsense. Now if you'll excuse me I'm off for my morning workout. Seize the day  .

Yes you are right. There are still deals out there for foreign players, but they tend to be players from the bigger European clubs rather than lower league overseas players. Piroe qualified for a work permit because he played for PSV Eindhoven in 2020/2021. He got 10 points for playing at least 1 game in the Eredivisie & then got 3 more because they qualified for the champions league qualifiers and another 3 because they got to the last 32 of the europa league. If he had played for a lower stature club he wouldn’t have qualified.