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West Bromwich Albion FC Forums => West Bromwich Albion FC => Topic started by: baggie38 on May 11, 2019, 11:08:22 PM
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Sorry for the negativity but I'm so down hearted after today's result and I can't see J Rod getting us the goals necessary to do the job. I've been very fortunate as a Albion fan everytime we have been relegated in my time we bounced straight back. So I'm wondering what can we expect to happen in the summer should we stay down? Obviously we will lose alot of players but in that case what players do we then attract? Would we be looking at s**t from league one?
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Sorry for the negativity but I'm so down hearted after today's result and I can't see J Rod getting us the goals necessary to do the job. I've been very fortunate as a Albion fan everytime we have been relegated in my time we bounced straight back. So I'm wondering what can we expect to happen in the summer should we stay down? Obviously we will lose alot of players but in that case what players do we then attract? Would we be looking at s**t from league one?
we need a clear out last summer but Jenkins and Moore wanted to keep core squad from Premier league and then bring in a few senior pros so God knows what will happen this summer.
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It's a double edged sword for me. We go up we aren't ready and Jenkins won't spend. Or we stay down lose players who we should of ditched in the summer but knowing us we won't replace them with any quality. This summer is where we need to dip into foreign markets.
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We’ll all go to The Winchester and wait for it all to blow over.
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We sadly get the clearout a lot of fans wanted without going up so we will be looking at the stars of league 1 and 2 ala Conor Townsend. Going forward i can only hope we remain the Championship for the next 5 years and not go lower.
This year has been my least favourite year as an Albion fan. Jenkins and Co i despise you.
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We sadly get the clearout a lot of fans wanted without going up so we will be looking at the stars or league 1 and 2 ala Conor Townsend. Going forward i can only hope we remain the Championship for the next 5 years and not go lower.
This year has been my least favourite year as an Albion fan. Jenkins and Co i despise you.
Totally understand your feelings. I've actually decided to stop giving the club any money while Jenkins is around. I won't buy a season ticket,Replica shirt,Single match day ticket not a thing until that man is out the club. For me this summer he should pay with his job but I can only assume that Lai is happy with how water tight he runs the club. If the likes of Townsend is what we will be targeting then we won't be pushing for promotion anytime soon. People can call me fickle and a poor fan straight away but why should I pay my hard earned money to go into that blokes pocket only for him to not show any ambition and run the club in such a poor disgusting manner.
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Baggie 38 spot on. I thought i was being a bit harsh but i 'm glad to see i'm not alone. I flat out refuse to give the club anymore money while Jenkins is, essentially, in charge. Any money given to the club in my mind is a vote of support and validation for these clowns ruining my club and i will not take part in it.
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I've just been having a little think as to who could leave should we stay down correct me if you disagree but I think the following will leave
All loanees (Gayle included)
Hegazi
Dawson
Gibbs
Phillips
Livermore
Morrison
Barry
Harper
Rodriguez
Which would basically leave us with the likes of Johnstone,Bartley,Townsend,Edwards,Field and HRK :'(
And alot of players to bring in with a mega tight CEO at the helm running things. God help us let's just pray that we can turn it around Tuesday
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More games
More fun
Cheaper tickets
More goals
Hopefully more wins
Bad thing is we need the money
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All I want is for the club to show a little ambition.
Not too worried about the Prem, apart from the money, but lets get a squad together that want to play attacking football and have a proper go at a cup instead of cup games being used to give the stiffs a day out.
We need a manager similar to when we had Mowbray.
Come back Tone all is forgiven!
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All I want is for the club to show a little ambition.
Not too worried about the Prem, apart from the money, but lets get a squad together that want to play attacking football and have a proper go at a cup instead of cup games being used to give the stiffs a day out.
We need a manager similar to when we had Mowbray.
Come back Tone all is forgiven!
What I'd give to have Mowbray back. That bloke knew how to get a team playing and how to shop in the foreign market (with the help of Dan Ashworth) who would honestly of thought of shopping in the Norwegian league like we did for Robert Koren? Brilliant times.
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What I'd give to have Mowbray back. That bloke knew how to get a team playing and how to shop in the foreign market (with the help of Dan Ashworth) who would honestly of thought of shopping in the Norwegian league like we did for Robert Koren? Brilliant times.
And Norwich have shown again this season how effective shopping abroad can be
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I've just been having a little think as to who could leave should we stay down correct me if you disagree but I think the following will leave
All loanees (Gayle included)
Hegazi
Dawson
Gibbs
Phillips
Livermore
Morrison
Barry
Harper
Rodriguez
Which would basically leave us with the likes of Johnstone,Bartley,Townsend,Edwards,Field and HRK :'(
And alot of players to bring in with a mega tight CEO at the helm running things. God help us let's just pray that we can turn it around Tuesday
It's frightening isn't it? I'd had similar conversations with people. We are in a terrible mess in terms of this squad. It's going to be a long rebuilding process which I'd accept if I had any faith in the powers that be but I don't.
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If we stay down, I can see a Jenkins statement coming out mentioning 'cutting cloth', flourishing youngsters, going again, no stone unturned, Lai fully committed' blah blah blah........
The reality will be a complete overhaul , massive cost cutting with our current coaching set up remaining and lots of players signed on very cheap wages plus loans.
Go on surprise me!
By the way , if we go up, I think the same would happen but at least Lai might sell so we can have a new owner.
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An equally relevant question is what happens if we go up?
The squad is no more fit for purpose than if we stay in the Championship. The only difference is we have money and with money we can make some bad contract decisions that won't happen in the Championship simply because there is a need to ship some of the wages off the books. Equally if you have issues with some of our players at Championship level those issues multiply in the Premier League and those same players are still contracted to us and it is unlikely that some won't feature in the squad if we were promoted.
The squad has required an major overhaul for 4 or 5 seasons and this summer is when all the chickens come home to roost regardless of which division we find ourselves in.
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An equally relevant question is what happens if we go up?
The squad is no more fit for purpose than if we stay in the Championship. The only difference is we have money and with money we can make some bad contract decisions that won't happen in the Championship simply because there is a need to ship some of the wages off the books. Equally if you have issues with some of our players at Championship level those issues multiply in the Premier League and those same players are still contracted to us and it is unlikely that some won't feature in the squad if we were promoted.
The squad has required an major overhaul for 4 or 5 seasons and this summer is when all the chickens come home to roost regardless of which division we find ourselves in.
Good post. As i said in a previous post it's a double edged sword. We aren't good enough to go up but I'm terrified of what will happen if we stay down.
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I've just been having a little think as to who could leave should we stay down correct me if you disagree but I think the following will leave
All loanees (Gayle included)
Hegazi
Dawson
Gibbs
Phillips
Livermore
Morrison
Barry
Harper
Rodriguez
Which would basically leave us with the likes of Johnstone,Bartley,Townsend,Edwards,Field and HRK :'(
And alot of players to bring in with a mega tight CEO at the helm running things. God help us let's just pray that we can turn it around Tuesday
Plus Rondon and Burke of course.
If all these leave the club we should bring in something approaching 100 million pounds. If just half of that is used to buy good foreign or championship players plus our talented youngsters perhaps the future isn’t too gloomy. The right appointment of a manager is a must, I would like Potter. This close season is so vital for the clubs future.
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Plus Rondon and Burke of course.
If all these leave the club we should bring in something approaching 100 million pounds. If just half of that is used to buy good foreign or championship players plus our talented youngsters perhaps the future isn’t too gloomy. The right appointment of a manager is a must, I would like Potter. This close season is so vital for the clubs future.
We won't spend anywhere near half of that money with Jenkins there. I'd go for Potter or Monk. By the way does anybody think that anybody on the list I've put for leaving could spring a surprise and stay? Personally I think the ones more likely to stay on that list is Livermore and Philips
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Plus Rondon and Burke of course.
If all these leave the club we should bring in something approaching 100 million pounds. If just half of that is used to buy good foreign or championship players plus our talented youngsters perhaps the future isn’t too gloomy. The right appointment of a manager is a must, I would like Potter. This close season is so vital for the clubs future.
There is no way we will receive anything like 100 Million
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I've thought for most of the season we weren't good enough to go up and recruitment generally with loanees, old experienced pro's and a few kids isn't a great footing for if we did progress, for without serious investment we'd probably be whipping boys. Remember we've lost something like a quarter of the games even in this league.
Recruitment has to be better, which is why I think we need to change and rebuild. Norwich got Pukki on a free or minimal payment, Sheff Utd are a workmanlike team without any real stars, Huddersfield got up, so I think it can be done. The Championship is unforgiving, you only have to look at the sides in the division who have been there for a few years, Forest, Leeds, Sheff Weds, Blackburn etc we have to hope we don't do a Sunderland
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If we stay down :
Positives :
Kids will have to be given opportunity to develop
Negatives :
A statement saying we have no money and have to cut our cloth
Appleton in charge ( joy of joys )
Free signings as we will be balancing books
A battle to stay in the division
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If we stay down we have to do the rebuild that should have started last summer.
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If we stay down, we'll be looking to sell some, keep some and bring in a load of loans
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An equally relevant question is what happens if we go up?
The squad is no more fit for purpose than if we stay in the Championship. The only difference is we have money and with money we can make some bad contract decisions that won't happen in the Championship simply because there is a need to ship some of the wages off the books. Equally if you have issues with some of our players at Championship level those issues multiply in the Premier League and those same players are still contracted to us and it is unlikely that some won't feature in the squad if we were promoted.
The squad has required an major overhaul for 4 or 5 seasons and this summer is when all the chickens come home to roost regardless of which division we find ourselves in.
But, as you say, you have money. You can also make good decisions and sign quality players.
I agree it would be a large rebuild either way, but I would much rather do that in the Prem with cash, than in the Championship with dwindling income and a tight chairman.
If we did go up I would see us being back to the yoyo years for a while. A gradual improvement until we get a bit of a foothold. It's the only way to do it unless your chairman spends a LOT of money and that's never going to happen.
Just hope that if we stay down and end up struggling those fans who wanted "anyone but Pulis" will be happy.
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An equally relevant question is what happens if we go up?
The squad is no more fit for purpose than if we stay in the Championship. The only difference is we have money and with money we can make some bad contract decisions that won't happen in the Championship simply because there is a need to ship some of the wages off the books. Equally if you have issues with some of our players at Championship level those issues multiply in the Premier League and those same players are still contracted to us and it is unlikely that some won't feature in the squad if we were promoted.
The squad has required an major overhaul for 4 or 5 seasons and this summer is when all the chickens come home to roost regardless of which division we find ourselves in.
God knows what will happen to us next season assuming we are still in the championship, but I fear a financial crisis whatever division we are in.
We will no doubt be forced to sell players if we are still in the championship & I fear we will not invest in some badly needed fresh quality players if we were by some miracle to get into the prem.
I read somewhere recently (possibly in the E&S?) that the owner will look to sell if we get promoted, so if that's true, he won't be looking to spend any money on the squad.
Interesting & troubling times ahead methinks.
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But, as you say, you have money. You can also make good decisions and sign quality players.
I agree it would be a large rebuild either way, but I would much rather do that in the Prem with cash, than in the Championship with dwindling income and a tight chairman.
If we did go up I would see us being back to the yoyo years for a while. A gradual improvement until we get a bit of a foothold. It's the only way to do it unless your chairman spends a LOT of money and that's never going to happen.
Just hope that if we stay down and end up struggling those fans who wanted "anyone but Pulis" will be happy.
My point is that the challenge is similar regardless of which division we are in. However the trap that opens up in the Premier League that isn't open in the Championship is that we use some of the money to extend the contracts of Livermore, Dawson etc... get relegated and find ourselves back in the Championship with the same core group of players 2 years older even less salable and struggling to bounce back at all.
With regard to Pulis this is as much his legacey as anybody elses. Personally had we stayed in the Premier League under Pulis I wouldn't have renewed my season ticket which is something I pretty much would have regarded as unthinkable before he graced our club. Did I want this particular outcome? Not really. Am I still glad that he has gone? Yes. Have I renewed my season ticket? Hell yes.
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It will all come down to who is willing to spend what we will ask
If we stay down
JRod 16m
Phillips 12m
Holgate
Gayle
Murphy
Montero
Tosin
Dawson 7m
Hegazi 9m
Will all be gone, don't think Gibbs (whilst good) has been prem quality this year and would assume Morrison will extend
Starting next season would look something like
Johnstone
NEW. Bartley. NEW. Townsend
Edwards. Livermore Johansen. Brunt/NEW
NEW. NEW
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God help us all.
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I’d be hoping for the youth to play, maybe something like;
Johnstone
NEW BARTLEY NEW GIBBS
PHILLIPS HARPER FIELD NEW
NEW
GAYLE(please)
Likes of O’Shea, Wilson, Edwards, leko, maybe even Rogers being utilised as understudies.
OUTS;
Rondon
Jrod
Dawson
Hegazi
Livermore
Nyom
Try and get 50+million and reinvest in young players. I’d love josh brownhill from Bristol city, we need some energy and pace in the side.
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I'd desperately like to keep Hegazi, Rodriguez and Johansen (sign him) and build around that spine.
Whether or not that'd be possible no-one knows, there will be constant speculation but no-one really knows who will stay / go.
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I think any player we can get decent money for will go, a few players who’s contracts are up and no one else wants we will keep to maintain numbers, along with others still under contract we would prefer to part company with, but that no one else wants.
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Fulham have just activated another year in johansens contract
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2 non British players in the squad shows our scouting policy 😂
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Fulham have just activated another year in johansens contract
I can't see that anywhere, not saying you are wrong. Would make sense on their side of course.
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I can't see that anywhere, not saying you are wrong. Would make sense on their side of course.
I found this, not sure how reliable the site is, but seems authentic and Johansen has had his contract extended
“Fulham chairman Shahid Khan announces four contract extensions ahead of Newcastle clashâ€
Source: https://www.football.london/fulham-fc/fulham-chairman-shahid-khan-announces-16262765
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Thanks for that, makes sense for them
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My point is that the challenge is similar regardless of which division we are in. However the trap that opens up in the Premier League that isn't open in the Championship is that we use some of the money to extend the contracts of Livermore, Dawson etc... get relegated and find ourselves back in the Championship with the same core group of players 2 years older even less salable and struggling to bounce back at all.
With regard to Pulis this is as much his legacey as anybody elses. Personally had we stayed in the Premier League under Pulis I wouldn't have renewed my season ticket which is something I pretty much would have regarded as unthinkable before he graced our club. Did I want this particular outcome? Not really. Am I still glad that he has gone? Yes. Have I renewed my season ticket? Hell yes.
My understanding is that when Pulis came in we ripped up our structure and scouting system which had done a decent job in the past and bought the typical short term British players that might provide short term benefit in a Pulis team but ultimately do nothing for the long term of the club.
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It will all come down to who is willing to spend what we will ask
If we stay down
JRod 16m
Phillips 12m
Holgate
Gayle
Murphy
Montero
Tosin
Dawson 7m
Hegazi 9m
Will all be gone, don't think Gibbs (whilst good) has been prem quality this year and would assume Morrison will extend
Starting next season would look something like
Johnstone
NEW. Bartley. NEW. Townsend
Edwards. Livermore Johansen. Brunt/NEW
NEW. NEW
We will still have Sam Field and Barry has said he wants to play another season. I'm not sure but isn't HRK under contract for next season?
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I think a bigger problem if we stay down and losing half the team is attracting a new manager. Who would want to take on the Albion job with the owner and board we have and then losing any talent we have. Have a feeling Appleton will be stepping up.
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I think a bigger problem if we stay down and losing half the team is attracting a new manager. Who would want to take on the Albion job with the owner and board we have and then losing any talent we have. Have a feeling Appleton will be stepping up.
He was talking to Shan and then we lost...It doesn't bode well for us.
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I think we'd have a big clear out, basically try as much as possible to get our top earners out of the club, whether that's selling them or releasing them. Then financially we would be better off.
The problem would then be trying to be competitive with a much smaller budget which would be very, very difficult but Sheffield United/Norwich proved it is possible.
Basically a massive change. Usually transfers aren't that monumental in terms of slow but steady change - a lot of people usually exaggerate clear-outs etc, but I think this time it genuinely would be one.
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My understanding is that when Pulis came in we ripped up our structure and scouting system which had done a decent job in the past and bought the typical short term British players that might provide short term benefit in a Pulis team but ultimately do nothing for the long term of the club.
Your understanding looks spot on to me.
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My understanding is that when Pulis came in we ripped up our structure and scouting system which had done a decent job in the past and bought the typical short term British players that might provide short term benefit in a Pulis team but ultimately do nothing for the long term of the club.
We had no choice, and it had already had so much damage done to it by Garlick, Irvine, McDonough, Burton etc etc etc it wasn't fit for purpose any way.
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Plus Rondon and Burke of course.
If all these leave the club we should bring in something approaching 100 million pounds. If just half of that is used to buy good foreign or championship players plus our talented youngsters perhaps the future isn’t too gloomy. The right appointment of a manager is a must, I would like Potter. This close season is so vital for the clubs future.
As I have said on the next manager thread, why would Potter leave Swansea for a club no more likely to go up than his present club, especially one with no ambition, money or direction
The same applies to the Bristol City manager.
Just because we were recently in the Premier League doesn't mean these managers will come as soon as we call
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As I have said on the next manager thread, why would Potter leave Swansea for a club no more likely to go up than his present club, especially one with no ambition, money or direction
The same applies to the Bristol City manager.
Just because we were recently in the Premier League doesn't mean these managers will come as soon as we call
Swansea are a basket case. His approach this season has not been by design. He's had no choice.
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We had no choice, and it had already had so much damage done to it by Garlick, Irvine, McDonough, Burton etc etc etc it wasn't fit for purpose any way.
Of course we had a choice. More than one in fact.
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Swansea are a basket case. His approach this season has not been by design. He's had no choice.
Apparently choice is in short supply generally
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Of course we had a choice. More than one in fact.
If we wanted Pulis, which we did (and was absolutely needed) we had no choice. We'd have gone down with virtually any other appointment after an abysmal summers recruitment.
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If we stay down :
Negatives :
A battle to stay in the division
Surely we have more than enough even with a few changes to stay in the championship?
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Surely we have more than enough even with a few changes to stay in the championship?
I think we'll be really struggling next year, IF Lai pulls the plug, ie. We don't spend the transfer fees we receive.
All 6 loanees will be returned. Despite what we think of them as players, Dawson, Rodriguez, Livermore, Gibbs and Hegazi won't fancy another year in the Championship. That's 11. Harper looks unlikely to re-sign, we'd be mad to offer Barry a new deal. Hollahan and Mears will also depart, that's 15.
That's a spine next year of Johnstone, Bartley, Field, Brunt and Kanu.
We're in big trouble if the next few weeks don't go our way, starting Tuesday.
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I think we'll be really struggling next year, IF Lai pulls the plug, ie. We don't spend the transfer fees we receive.
All 6 loanees will be returned. Despite what we think of them as players, Dawson, Rodriguez, Livermore, Gibbs and Hegazi won't fancy another year in the Championship. That's 11. Harper looks unlikely to re-sign, we'd be mad to offer Barry a new deal. Hollahan and Mears will also depart, that's 15.
That's a spine next year of Johnstone, Bartley, Field, Brunt and Kanu.
We're in big trouble if the next few weeks don't go our way, starting Tuesday.
And god help us if we do have that spine, a keeper who instills no confidence, a centre half who i'd rather forget we signed, an aging midfielder who's spent a season out of position and is a year older already with no pace and a non scoring striker.
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And god help us if we do have that spine, a keeper who instills no confidence, a centre half who i'd rather forget we signed, an aging midfielder who's spent a season out of position and is a year older already with no pace and a non scoring striker.
So boring and yet so exact.
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And god help us if we do have that spine, a keeper who instills no confidence, a centre half who i'd rather forget we signed, an aging midfielder who's spent a season out of position and is a year older already with no pace and a non scoring striker.
You forgot to add youth team player who has shown nothing to suggest he's good enough for the division... :-X
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You forgot to add youth team player who has shown nothing to suggest he's good enough for the division... :-X
You mean the one who held his own in the Premier League, done his job when he's had the odd chance in this side but has seemingly been hung out to dry for some reason ?
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At least we get Nyom back, thats right back solved! :-X
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At least we get Nyom back, thats right back solved! :-X
Cue 20 posts asking “can he play Tuesday.â€😂
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I think we'll be really struggling next year, IF Lai pulls the plug, ie. We don't spend the transfer fees we receive.
All 6 loanees will be returned. Despite what we think of them as players, Dawson, Rodriguez, Livermore, Gibbs and Hegazi won't fancy another year in the Championship. That's 11. Harper looks unlikely to re-sign, we'd be mad to offer Barry a new deal. Hollahan and Mears will also depart, that's 15.
That's a spine next year of Johnstone, Bartley, Field, Brunt and Kanu.
We're in big trouble if the next few weeks don't go our way, starting Tuesday.
We do occasionally disagree, but I think (if Ali does pull the plug) your assessment is spot on
The unknown quantity is the IF
What if he decides to have a go at it ?
Could it be that he didn’t want to let Moore spend the money , and some may say he was right not too?
We could stay down and have rondo and Gayle up top
We could win the playoffs and get 100 mil to spend
Football eh ?
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We will lose our better players, as long as we get decent money for the likes of Jrod hegazi , Dawson, Rondons fee should bring a bit in. I think any moderately competent championship manager should be capable of building a side strong enough to compete at this level. We won’t have loads to spend obviously but we should still have more than at least half the league I’d imagine. The manager appointment this time more than at any other point is massive. I’ve really enjoyed this year in the main and am certainly not completely despondent at the idea of another stint in this league.
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Please tell me there's some decent free agents this summer that we could appeal to.
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I think its completely normal to have fears if we don't go up, but i'm sure given our parachute payments that should give us enough to make another good go of it next year. We havent played particularly well this season and still finished fourth, that's what the level of this league is like. I'm sure we are significantly better than a 'championship struggle'. Maybe i'm blind about it all, but surely we have enough in the tank? I mean, i look at the likes of derby, forest, boro, and they are always there or thereabouts and able to be around the top six most seasons, why can't we?
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Assuming non-promotion
Whist the rebuild is inevitable, we need to reflect on our competition, I would suggest that no championship club is self financing and without a) sugar daddy or b) parachute payments.
That being correct,
Relegated clubs:- Only Fulham have a sugar daddy, whist Hudd and cardiff will have the benefits of largely established squads and parachute payments
Promoted clubs:- No-one with significant funding there
Existing clubs :- Villa look to be well financed (I cannot countenance them getting promoted this season), similarly Brizzle, beyond that the rest are either running out of parachute payments, under FFP pressure or just struggling in the same way we will be.
We need to be astute and spend wisely and we will be in a position to compete.
the problem is Astute and Wise are not words I would associate with WBAFC 2017/18/19
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I would hope Kane Wilson may get a look in at right back, maybe only as a back up, but given our lack of options there he may be forced to start (and yes I have remembered Nyom).
I say it every year but I hope our youngsters see more game time. You can't rely on them to carry the team but we've seen the sides around us have youthful energy which we have lacked for so long. Rogers, Field and Edwards should all be in our 18 next season in my opinion.
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I think its completely normal to have fears if we don't go up, but i'm sure given our parachute payments that should give us enough to make another good go of it next year.
Didn't the club say something in January like they were borrowing £10m against next year's parachute payment to secure players - admittedly we only bought in Murphy, Johansen & Montero so may not have used that much, but I'm curious as to whether this will further add to our 'cutting the cloth' justification
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Being realistic, if we don't go up this season, there's every likelihood that we'll not have a hope of seeing the Premier League again for possibly decades. Most likely will be mid-table Chamionship and League one for us for a long time to come. If we couldn't get up this season with the advantage in budget and players, there will be even less chance next season and the one after it. It's most likely going to be bad times folks. Best we can hope for is to at least culture a new tradition of playing entertaining football whilst we languish outside the Prem.
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I would like to think that the answer is the same as if we go up: we take stock as a football club and decide upon a direction, recruitment policy and style of play that we want to go in and hire a head coach and players to suit. For me that shouldn't change whether we get promoted or not - it is much needed.
Having said that, I cannot see our board thinking this way; there hasn't appeared to be much long-term thinking for some years now and with the second year of parachute payments, I anticipate a similar approach to this year. They'll try and keep the majority of the squad and follow a 'win now' strategy of loans and short-term deals.
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Next season we will have money to compete again but the season after that is when we be in trouble. We had to borrow money this season when we received parachute payments of £42m and in 13 months the payment we will receive will only be around £7m.
So our wage bill will have to be trimmed by a huge amount to break even, if that does happen I don’t think we will be in actual financial trouble as Jenkins in there but I don’t think we will compete at all
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Next season we will have money to compete again but the season after that is when we be in trouble. We had to borrow money this season when we received parachute payments of £42m and in 13 months the payment we will receive will only be around £7m.
So our wage bill will have to be trimmed by a huge amount to break even, if that does happen I don’t think we will be in actual financial trouble as Jenkins in there but I don’t think we will compete at all
Still not convinced we did have to borrow money, we had an overdraft to cover a cash flow situation. Won't have any impact on next season's budget.
You're correct about the 20/21 season though, Lai will have to bankroll us if we're to compete.
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Next season is a definite rebuilding exercise. Something we should have been doing this season instead of trying to use quick fixes to get us back into the premier.
We just need to take stock of who wants to stay with us next season and build a side around them. We need to push the older players on .
It will all start with the manager, I would either take Chris Hughton or get a young manager who has done well in Division 1. With him on board, then go and buy good championship players or even very good division 1 players. Together with the good youngsters coming through, the ones who want to stay this year and the new championship players, we could give the championship a good go next year ( If we are still in it).
Remember last season, Norwich and Leeds both finished outside the top 10 and Sheffield United finished 10th .
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Still not convinced we did have to borrow money, we had an overdraft to cover a cash flow situation. Won't have any impact on next season's budget.
You're correct about the 20/21 season though, Lai will have to bankroll us if we're to compete.
We had an overdraft secured against next seasons parachute payment. We have to pay back that overdraft out of that money, which will have an impact on next seasons spending.
It's like one of us using Wonga this month, and having to pay it back out of next months wages. A short-term fix which leaves you worse off in the long run.
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It's all well and good saying we will need a big rebuild, but its also worth noting that not many clubs will probably pay the fees we would want:
Current squad
Johnstone - assuming he stays
Bond - stays
Myhill - should be released
Holgate - will go back
Hegazi - assuming 10million'ish
Dawson - see Hegazi - although I could see us letting him go for cheaper
Bartley - stays
Tosin - goes back
Gibbs - 6-8mil?
Johansen - goes back
Livermore - not long signed a new deal - would imagine the club would believe they could get their money back on him
Brunt - kept on
Morrison - kept on
Harper - leaves
Field - stays
Phillips - 8-10mil? Will anyone take a risk on him with his injuries
Montero - goes back
Murphy - goes back
Rodriguez - taking into his age, I can see the club accepting 10-12mil
Gayle - goes back
HRK - stays
The only ones I can really see any of the prem clubs coming in for would be Hegazi and Rodriguez.
One of the lower clubs will probably take a punt on Dawson and Gibbs if they can get them for decent prices.
I expect Livermore and Phillips will remain here, I just cant see anyone offering anything attractive enough for Phillips with his injury record, the only way he leaves is if he kicks up a fuss or the club push him out due to wages.
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Please tell me there's some decent free agents this summer that we could appeal to.
Just had a quick search - below are some of the freebies we could probably attract (top few are premier league, rest of out the championship):
Okazaki
Markovic
Baines
Diame
Danny Simpson
Llorente
Jenkinson
Leroy Fer
Narsingh
Nick Powell
Timm Klose
Bradley Johnsen
Josh Vela
McGoldrick
Tyler Blackett
Jack Rodwell
Andre Green
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We had an overdraft secured against next seasons parachute payment. We have to pay back that overdraft out of that money, which will have an impact on next seasons spending.
It's like one of us using Wonga this month, and having to pay it back out of next months wages. A short-term fix which leaves you worse off in the long run.
If you go on the Premier League website, it shows that all TV revenue (including parachute payments) are paid at the end of the season in May.
Cash flow is about timing, repayment of the overdraft, will have been included in this financial year's budget. The club has known about it since August last year.
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If you go on the Premier League website, it shows that all TV revenue (including parachute payments) are paid at the end of the season in May.
Cash flow is about timing, repayment of the overdraft, will have been included in this financial year's budget. The club has known about it since August last year.
Cash flow is about timing, but when you look at that plus all the money which has gone out of the club in the last two years, it paints a very worrying picture. The fact is that under Peace, we had enough cash in reserve that even if our outgoings were above our income, we were still in the black and not having to take out an overdraft.
What we are essentially doing is borrowing against future earnings. That is something Villa were doing under Xia, and it's a bad business practice - that's why they would have been facing serious financial implosion this season had they not been rescued by another takeover, and the capital that generated.
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Cash flow is about timing, but when you look at that plus all the money which has gone out of the club in the last two years, it paints a very worrying picture. The fact is that under Peace, we had enough cash in reserve that even if our outgoings were above our income, we were still in the black and not having to take out an overdraft.
What we are essentially doing is borrowing against future earnings. That is something Villa were doing under Xia, and it's a bad business practice - that's why they would have been facing serious financial implosion this season had they not been rescued by another takeover, and the capital that generated.
It's all here
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/04/01/chief-executive-mark-jenkins-insists-west-brom-financially-sound-despite-75m-losses/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/04/01/chief-executive-mark-jenkins-insists-west-brom-financially-sound-despite-75m-losses/)
Couple of quotes to save you reading it all:
There have been concerns over Albion’s financial situation this season after the club took out an overdraft in December against parachute payments due at the end of this season to help their cash flow from January to July this year.
The board then sacked head coach Darren Moore in March because they lost faith in his ability to deliver promotion.
But Jenkins insists the club can still look to the future ‘with confidence’, regardless of whether the Baggies go up or not this season.
"The accounts underline the comments I made on my return in February 2018,†said Jenkins. “The cost of a season which ended up with the club relegated from the Premier League exhausted our funds.
“But I also wish to make it clear that, regardless of our fate this season, the club remains on a solid financial footing and can look forward to the future with confidence.
“Clearly, there are extreme differences between competing in the Premier League or the Sky Bet Championship but we are equipped to tackle those challenges from a sound position.â€
A directors’ report in the accounts signed by Jenkins states the board believe they will not need another overdraft facility at any stage over the next 12 months.
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It's all here
We have had money from the bank, in the form of an overdraft.
When we get the parachute payment, whether we receive it in May, June, July, August, etc, we still have to pay that overdraft back to the bank (plus interest).
We do not get that money back. We have spent it before we have received it. It has to be paid back. That is less money we have to spend next season.
We will not need an overdraft next season because Jenkins will cut our cloth accordingly to our current cash flow. If we're still in the Championship, that will be a significantly lower cash flow.
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We have had money from the bank, in the form of an overdraft.
When we get the parachute payment, whether we receive it in May, June, July, August, etc, we still have to pay that overdraft back to the bank (plus interest).
We do not get that money back. We have spent it before we have received it. It has to be paid back. That is less money we have to spend next season.
We will not need an overdraft next season because Jenkins will cut our cloth accordingly to our current cash flow. If we're still in the Championship, that will be a significantly lower cash flow.
I can see that you have a much better understanding of budgetary control than I do, so we'll leave it there.
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I have an overdraft facility, rarely use it, but its there just in case.
I don't think there is a lot to see here.
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The way I understood it was that actually we need the extra cash flow in Jan (for whatever reasons - loan fees etc) but this was against the current season's parachute payments.
The clubs do not receive the full lump at the beginning of the season it's spread out so we'll still be waiting on the final dosh from this season.
The bad business practise was spunking all the cash on pooh like Sturridge and Gregorz.
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I can see that you have a much better understanding of budgetary control than I do, so we'll leave it there.
Given that I'm an accountant... ::)
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We have had money from the bank, in the form of an overdraft.
When we get the parachute payment, whether we receive it in May, June, July, August, etc, we still have to pay that overdraft back to the bank (plus interest).
We do not get that money back. We have spent it before we have received it. It has to be paid back. That is less money we have to spend next season.
We will not need an overdraft next season because Jenkins will cut our cloth accordingly to our current cash flow. If we're still in the Championship, that will be a significantly lower cash flow.
Not necessarily. We get £8m less parachute funding next year, but we’ll have transfer fee income from Rondon and probably Nyom and Burke to more than cover it, even before we sell anybody else.
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Let the fire sale begin
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Let the fire sale begin
Can we sell Jenkins?
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Can we sell Jenkins?
we're the only mugs around here. Lumbered with the baffoon for the forcible future.
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Let the fire sale begin
Matt Phillips in last year of deal might see some bids...
Hegazi has a low release clause...
Dawson might bring us £10mil
Rondon also with his release after a fairly decent season might bring us funds.
Wonder if anybody goes for Gibbs or Rodriguez?
Wishful thinking Livermore...
6 loans going back. Mears hoolahan Barry brunt Harper myhill out of contract so that's 12 going (maybe 10 if we retained Brunt & Harper) could be anywhere up to 16/17 leaving summer.
We need a manager in early and we need to clear the deadwood early.
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Safe to assume the three the three senior players out on loan will be sold
Rondon 16.5 million (release clause)
Burke 5-8 million (possibly)
Nyom Packet of sweets and a bag of fish of chips?
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change jenkins right away and maybe dowling.
bring in jokanovic
begin the squad rebuild which should've begun two years ago
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Safe to assume the three the three senior players out on loan will be sold
Rondon 16.5 million (release clause)
Burke 5-8 million (possibly)
Nyom Packet of sweets and a bag of fish of chips?
Burke £5-8m?
More like £5.80, if we find someone with a bit of loose change.
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Burke £5-8m?
More like £5.80, if we find some drunk with a bit of loose change.
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Matt Phillips in last year of deal might see some bids...
Hegazi has a low release clause...
Dawson might bring us £10mil
Rondon also with his release after a fairly decent season might bring us funds.
Wonder if anybody goes for Gibbs or Rodriguez?
Wishful thinking Livermore...
6 loans going back. Mears hoolahan Barry brunt Harper myhill out of contract so that's 12 going (maybe 10 if we retained Brunt & Harper) could be anywhere up to 16/17 leaving summer.
We need a manager in early and we need to clear the deadwood early.
I understand Hegazi’s release clause is around £10m. There will surely be offers for Rodriguez. Rondon will undoubtedly go for his release clause figure of £16.5m. Gibbs quite likely to attract an offer of around £5m. Harper will go - probably for around £2m compensation. Hopefully HRK will fetch £1m from a lower Championship club.
The rebuild could be very exciting. Young, hungry talent with resale potential please.
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I understand Hegazi’s release clause is around £10m. There will surely be offers for Rodriguez. Rondon will undoubtedly go for his release clause figure of £16.5m. Gibbs quite likely to attract an offer of around £5m. Harper will go - probably for around £2m compensation. Hopefully HRK will fetch £1m from a lower Championship club.
The rebuild could be very exciting. Young, hungry talent with resale potential please.
You were doing so well until this " Young, hungry talent with resale potential please"
I strongly suspect you will be disappointed.
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I think the next few years will be difficult now. Unlike previous relegations, we haven't got the nucleus of a squad to build around. This will now be a complete rebuild. A number of players are out of contract, and then we have quite a few loanees set to leave. We will also sell a few big names like Rondon, and potentially Phillips, Gibbs and Hegazi. It is hard to pick exactly who will stay.
I have no faith in Leigh Dowling's abilityto rebuild the squad on a smaller budget, going on his verypoor decision making thus far, and so a few mid table seasons (or worse) feel more likely now than another promotion push.
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Disappointed to lose to the Vile, over 2 legs some things didn't possibly go our way. Negative tactics maybe at Vile park after taking the lead but heyho. Personally I don't think we're good enough/ready for the PL in our situation, aging players, too many loans and younger players who don't seem to get that much of a chance.
I still think Leeds will go up, I just think it's their turn, funny how things sometimes pan out.
What we must do now, is appoint somebody [new} hopefully and start afresh.
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I understand Hegazi’s release clause is around £10m. There will surely be offers for Rodriguez. Rondon will undoubtedly go for his release clause figure of £16.5m. Gibbs quite likely to attract an offer of around £5m. Harper will go - probably for around £2m compensation. Hopefully HRK will fetch £1m from a lower Championship club.
The rebuild could be very exciting. Young, hungry talent with resale potential please.
Which club are we talking about here? ;)
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We need leadership , a clear plan when the dust settles .
Really not sure where that will come from with the 3 non wise men in charge .
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You were doing so well until this " Young, hungry talent with resale potential please"
I strongly suspect you will be disappointed.
Depends on whether the club wants to rebuild or not. As it happens, we are forced to do so.
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Which club are we talking about here? ;)
One that finally realizes that it has to look forward.
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There are two ways we can go from now:
1/ We borrow money against future earnings to maintain a highly paid and competitive squad. However it puts the club in a continually worse position
Best case scenario: Bournemouth
Worst case scenario: Bolton
2/ We cut our cloth according to our current income. We end up with a squad of decent championship players and are essentially aiming for 6th every year
Best case scenario: Derby, Forest
Worst case scenario: Ipswich
I can't see us going for the first; I would imagine we'll go for option 2, end up with a squad of Championship players, and settle back into that mid-table Championship status that Peace seemed to think we were cut out for.
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We will wait until the end of the transfer window and get dregs agin.
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Safe to assume the three the three senior players out on loan will be sold
Rondon 16.5 million (release clause)
Burke 5-8 million (possibly)
Nyom Packet of sweets and a bag of fish of chips?
packet of sweets and a bag of fish n chips, nice one that made me laugh, few more could go for that less the sweets
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Big Summer, need direction and leadership off the pitch and need to recruit leaders on the pitch. Heard so many times on here that a team these days doesn't need a Captain, sorry but it does and last night we lacked one, we've lacked one since Darren Fletcher left, he may not have been the best signing on the pitch as a player but the leadership was there, before that we have to go back to McInnes, we need a new one.
Squadwise, i'm expecting similar to last season, we'll try to hang on to who we can regardless and we''ll add freebies and loans again, off the pitch Appleton with Shan & Reid assisting is fully expected from me.
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New Manager
New Strategy
6 more loans
6 more permanents minimum
Sign Gayle and Johansen
Keep Gibbs and Hegazi
Doesn't look that difficult on paper does it.....
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New Manager
New Strategy
6 more loans
6 more permanents minimum
Sign Gayle and Johansen
Keep Gibbs and Hegazi
Doesn't look that difficult on paper does it.....
Whilst true the board will give
Manager some backward thinking mong like Moyes
Backward thinking strategy
6 loans 3 from Swansea Youth and 3 over rated knobs
6 permanent 4 being over the hill freebies, 2 expensive over rated has beens
Gayle & Johansen wont stay
Gibbs & Hegazi will go
Sad but true unfortunately!
Great being an optimistic Baggie eh? ::)
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Disappointed to lose to the Vile, over 2 legs some things didn't possibly go our way. Negative tactics maybe at Vile park after taking the lead but heyho. Personally I don't think we're good enough/ready for the PL in our situation, aging players, too many loans and younger players who don't seem to get that much of a chance.
I still think Leeds will go up, I just think it's their turn, funny how things sometimes pan out.
What we must do now, is appoint somebody [new} hopefully and start afresh.
Sick of hearing this, the tactics were the correct ones and a world class save from jrod effort and cheating and bad refereeing decisions cost us.
DG could have put JM through but his tired looking pass went to their last defender.
If we'd gone gung ho we'd have been picked off imo.
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Sick of hearing this, the tactics were the correct ones and a world class save from jrod effort and cheating and bad refereeing decisions cost us.
DG could have put JM through but his tired looking pass went to their last defender.
If we'd gone gung ho we'd have been picked off imo.
Small margins decide a game, poor decisions decide a season.
Brunty doesn't get sent off then who knows? But watching Brunty all season tells you that when he plays CM there is always a rash challenge round the corner when he gets in a tight spot. He is not a natural tackler and when he gets it wrong, he gets it very wrong. We all knew we were short for center midfield from the start of the season, even throughout last season. We gambled on Brunt taking that role, bringing in Johansen too late as he lacked match fitness....and when it came to the crunch the decision cost us.
Gayle doesn't get sent off first game and surely we could have nicked another goal? But we also knew the squad was a player short up-front for goals. HRK (even if available) does not have a consistent goal threat which leaves us with very limited attacking threat to bring on from the bench.
Problems in center midfield, lack of depth up front. We new it. When margins are small, these factors become the difference.
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When Brunt can be considered to playing well in CM it's down to his set pieces and picking up a loose ball with time and space. The defensive side of his game is incredibly poor, he let's players run past him all the time and is always on the edge of giving fouls away. Put it this way, if you were a pace attacking player, you'd be eyeing Brunt up as someone to run at.
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We want the Vile lot at home for the first match of the new season.