Author Topic: What's causing this?  (Read 10863 times)

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17GD

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What's causing this?
« on: September 24, 2011, 10:13:38 PM »
Just something I've been thinking about this evening after watching that display today and I want to know what you think.

There's no denying that there's an air of disappointment on this board and generally around WBA at the moment.

Over the last few years, we've been described in many different positive ways, such as 'a breath of fresh air to the Premier League', due to the nice football we play(ed). But it has to be said that of late we're just not performing.

What is responsible for it? What needs to be done about it? How long do you think this spell will continue?

WBASPE77

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2011, 10:16:19 PM »
I dont think that this will go on for much longer, I would say that we have a better team, than what we had 12 months ago.
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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2011, 10:20:53 PM »
One word - expectation
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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2011, 10:22:05 PM »
One word - expectation
Agreed, we seem to go into a lot of games expecting to win them pretty easily.
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Aztech

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2011, 10:22:38 PM »
It is not the taking part, but the winning that counts.

17GD

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2011, 10:26:29 PM »
What should our expectations be?

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2011, 10:47:31 PM »
Agreed!
totally disagree. most albion fans i speak to, well all to be fair were deeply disapointed at our spending or rather the fact we didnt spend any money and fully expected us to be in a relegation battle. and like ive said on many threads the fact we finished 11th deluded jezza into thinking we could stand still and still be fine. the thing concerning me and every supporter i speak to is our poor team selection, poor tactics and seemingly lack of passion and spark in our displays

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2011, 10:59:37 PM »
The ONLY expectation I have is that we will match our performance from last spring (admitting that form is temporary and varies). However, we are seemingly light years away from that, thanks to Roy's new master plan. It is no forgone conclusion at all that Roy will manage to create a new functioning side. And if or when he does chances are it will not be near as entertaining as last seasons side.

Imo, we are facing an autumn of struggle for no real reason and that will make this season even more of a hard slog than necessary.   

To tell the truth: Roy's negative and boring football is draining to me. That's why I feel deflated atm.

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2011, 12:02:29 AM »
Roy's single job remit is to keep us in the Prem.

He's obviously said that conceeding the amount we did last year was mad, so has put alot of work into our defence, which is still a work in progress. But this has cost us in an offensive sense.

Should we still be a Prem team by the end of the season (and i still can't see Swansea and Norwich staying up if honest, so that's only 1 more team we must out-do) then it's mission accomplished and well done.

We as fans as looking to score a boatload and let in few/none... which is far from easy here. We will blatantly score less this year and thus be less entertaining. But we'll also conceed less..... hopefully those figures will work in our favour?!
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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2011, 12:13:37 AM »
The first two matches of the season were quite encouraging and the team displayed a great energy and obvious talent. Things went downhill fast and left everyone wondering what happened.

Well I'd say it isn't a total coincidence there was apparently a nasty flu bug making its way around the entire club. Three or four players were so ill they had to miss a week of training. Who knows how many others were "walking sick" or just not 100% on the pitch (especially in regards to endurance).  In the PL these small things can make all the difference.

Any group of people competing week in week out will have slumps and low periods as their levels of individual performance dip and peak at different times; These last few weeks have seen a coordinated dip and I'm not too worried about the rest of the season. Loads of matches left to be played and I truly think we have the quality and the manager to avoid a late relegation battle.

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2011, 01:31:16 AM »
I think a real expectation should be 17th. Last season, Wolves and Blues nearly went down after previously successful campaigns. Why should we expect to be 'the one who kicks on?'

I think this season we're in for a scrap, but should really avoid the drop. With 17th I'd be happy. The problem is some fans think anything less than 11th is failure, and we should 'Do a Stoke' which is almost impossible.

With that said, I think we have a right for some form of entertainment value too. I'm not talking of Mowbray proportions either where entertainment compromises results, but a bit more flair on the pitch would be nice.

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2011, 10:58:16 AM »
So we shouldn't expect to beat one of the worst away teams in this league in the last four years, including teams that have been relegated?

I don't buy all this "realism" rubbish, in fact the real realism is that if you don't beat teams like Fulham at home you get relegated, simples.
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17GD

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2011, 11:08:41 AM »
So we shouldn't expect to beat one of the worst away teams in this league in the last four years, including teams that have been relegated?

I don't buy all this "realism" rubbish, in fact the real realism is that if you don't beat teams like Fulham at home you get relegated, simples.

I have to agree with you there. We just about scrape a win against a new Prem team, get hammered by another new team and draw against a poor attacking team at home. Although last season we had similar results, we managed to beat some of the big 4. Let's just hope we can turn it around for those games.

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2011, 11:14:44 AM »
What should our expectations be?
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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2011, 03:12:21 PM »
The only thing I expected of Albion this season is to push on from where we were.  This doesn't mean I think we should finish above 11th, as in all honestly the finishing position flattered us.  But we should be looking to carry on that good work, if we had I'd still be happy with 17th and I think we'd survive comfortably.

Instead it feels like we've gone backwards.  It reminds me of Megson's first season in the Prem yet we have players of a mile higher quality.  We're approaching games the same way, I'm hearing the same excuses.

My expectations now are 18, 19th or 20th. 

The scary thing is, it seems like a lot of fans just have no ambition and thinks we should be grateful for every point we scrape off the floor.

Are we a Premier League quality side or are we a championship side punching above their weight?  I think we're the former, the excuses I'm hearing sound like a lot think we're the latter.

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2011, 03:21:51 PM »
I think the cause of the panic and fear that everyone has is that they all think this is how we will perform all season. I'd say we've performed only as good this season than we did against the losing run of Villa, Bolton and Blackburn last year, yet look how we we did otherwise then.
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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2011, 03:37:55 PM »
I think the cause of the panic and fear that everyone has is that they all think this is how we will perform all season. I'd say we've performed only as good this season than we did against the losing run of Villa, Bolton and Blackburn last year, yet look how we we did otherwise then.

But until the "otherwise" bits turn up then this is all we have to go on.  Sitting here thinking "we'll be good again soon" is just burying your head in the sand.  We need to look at the previous games and identify where we went wrong.  We can't complain about being unlucky, if anything we've had the luck with us and we've still struggled.  We've still been outplayed in pretty much every match so far. 

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2011, 04:45:19 PM »
I expect survival, that's what I'm aiming for, anything more than survival is a bonus.

What I actually expect from the side is for them to come out and show some passion, show some commitment and look like they're interested in playing for this football club because that first half yesterday had none of what I've just mentioned. The second half, although it was an improvement wasn't good enough. Our performance at Swansea also lacked passion and commitment, something we had plenty of when Roy joined last season.

GrGr, got it spot on for me:
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To tell the truth: Roy's negative and boring football is draining to me. That's why I feel deflated atm.
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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2011, 05:03:02 PM »
I want us to improve on last season to put it succintly, from what I have witnessed so far that isn't the case and there is no reason for it. The football is worse and we don't look like winning. I'm hoping the players are ajusting to a different system and it willl get better. Hopefully Roy recognises that some of our players are suffering being played out of position.

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2011, 05:06:53 PM »
For most of last season we were "going down because we couldn't defend". Roy was brought in to address this and in the first 6 games has managed the same number of clean sheets than we achieved in 38 games last season. At the moment, apart from our own fans, people are not expecting us to get relegated because of this organization.

I remember numerous discussions about how football was about the success and it didn't matter how it was obtained against football was about being entertained and the result was secondary if the game was played well.

Personally, for me as a season ticket holder, I would rather watch us going for it and maybe fail because of it. I am more likely to stop going because the football is rubbish rather than because we have got relegated.
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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2011, 05:35:55 PM »
I don't know. Can I blame Peace? I blame Peace.

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2011, 08:54:00 PM »
So we shouldn't expect to beat one of the worst away teams in this league in the last four years, including teams that have been relegated?

I don't buy all this "realism" rubbish, in fact the real realism is that if you don't beat teams like Fulham at home you get relegated, simples.

I agree with you Lloydy on this. Of course higher expectation is a factor but as 17GD says,  what should our expectations be? We are now into our fourth attempt at the premier league (yes, it is different to the old first division) and it is about time we established ourselves here now. My expectation this year isnt top half but it is to stay up.

People say we have put in a few sub par performances but ive already listed the reasons im worried. I accepted the Man Utd and Chelsea tactics of sitting back, allowing the other team the ball and hoping to nick something because playing those 2 sides, that is all you can really hope for. What has happened since though is that the tactics havent altered from those 2 games despite us playing sides who will be no higher than 7 and most likely in a relegation scrap this season.

We have sat very deep with a heavy emphasis on defending, we have surrendered possession to every top flight side we played played this season apart from Stoke (who statistically dont play with the ball anyway). Our players look fatigued and are struggling to adapt to the new tactics, everything looks rigid as players seem unable to express them selves and are no longer being allowed to be fluid. Our midfield are no longer involved in games and the team selections hint at the midfield being an extension of defence. We have scored 4 goals in 7 goes against premier league opposition and all of them have came from defensive mistakes that our strikers have capitalised on with the one exception being Chris Brunt's penalty (which means their defence made a mistake in giving away a penalty anyway). We are still to score a goal that we have created for ourselves and our midfield are having a worrying lack of involvement in our attacking moves.

Id like to think my views haven't came about because I got carried away with last seasons position. I do admit though a worry that our performances arent just about the players being out of form and in fact a lot down to the way we are trying to play. When we took Hodgson on, while others were very pleased I wasnt THAT excited because his time at Liverpool had shown him to be a bit one dimensional and he was too conservative even with a team of players easily good enough for top 7. He surprised me because our football didnt change as much as expected and it all worked through a bit of fine tuning. I was hoping the fine tuning would continue over the summer but what has happened is that Hodgson has decided to change everything around and the early showings scream out of a side being told to function as a machine which goes totally against what worked for us last year. Everything the Liverpool fans were saying last season is now being repeated by our fans and that cant be ignored surely? It turns my mind away from "temporary blip" and more to managerial inflexibility and conscious playing style.

It is very early on and you hope Hodgson will look at the early performances and go back to the drawing board because he did well at Fulham and didnt just play boring football but im worried that when things do go wrong Hodgson isnt the sort of manager who is going to be able to react and change everything, He has had 30 odd years of managing teams his way and im worried that he wont change things because he thinks he has got it right. Things need to change quickly because bad results in the derby added to our poor start to the season and the calls for his head will come early than we would have thought at the start of the season.
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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2011, 11:09:13 AM »
I personally yhtink that this is mainly caused by players getting too far ahead of themselves.... Because we survied last season, some of them now think that its a god given right to stay in the Prem this season too.. WE HAVE TO EARN IT!!!!!!

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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2011, 11:14:12 AM »
Is there anything in the rumours after the Stoke game of 2 senior playes coming to blows which has caused a dressing room split? Like I say it is just a rumour but from 2 different people.
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Re: What's causing this?
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2011, 12:35:39 PM »
The fact is some of the chances we scored last year just haven't gone in yet. Think about vs Sunderland at home last season. Odemwingie one on one puts the ball past the keeper. This season vs Fulham he hits it straight at the keeper. 1-0 vs 0-0. Fine margins.