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West Bromwich Albion FC Forums => West Bromwich Albion FC => Topic started by: baggie96 on September 01, 2018, 09:42:27 AM

Title: Director of Football
Post by: baggie96 on September 01, 2018, 09:42:27 AM
This should have been our second appointment this summer, after Moore. Assuming we will be appointing one as a matter of priority now. Steve Walsh would be the obvious choice, we need to actually get some sort of scouting system up and running ASAP as Terraneo sacked them all.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: divinewind on September 01, 2018, 10:07:43 AM
We probably can't find one willing to do it for nothing.
There is an old saying, too many cook's spoil the broth, and that is our problem, plus most of the ones we employ aren't actually cooks.
Oh for the day's of a captain, a manager and get on with it.
Now any decision has to be made by an army of people. This is why everyone beats us to targets in the window.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: maccbaggie on September 01, 2018, 10:15:20 AM
Appointing a Director of Football (supported by a strong, broad scouting network) is absolutely vital to the medium and long-term prospects of the club.

This is the structure that allowed us to make affordable, intelligent signings from around the world by making use of a broad scouting network, such as Mulumbu, Yacob, Odemwingie, Olsson, Koren and others. Compare this with the kind of short-term it signings we've made in recent years - Barry, Lambert, Livermore, Mears, Hal Robson-Kanu, etc.

The difference is we used to recruit younger, well-scouted players with relatively affordable fees and wages with the potential for improvement high re-sale value. This is a sustainable model that allows the club to over-achieve. In recent years, we have regressed to signing overrated, overpaid, domestically-based players who are past their best. This has ultimately resulted in our relegation, and a situation where next year we will require a mass overhall of the squad, probably with limited money from outgoings due to our ageing squad and reliance on loans.

The other benefit of a director of football (and a large scouting network) is you get a continuity in the club's approach regardless of a change in the head coach. This is something that served us well in the Mowbray, Di Matteo, Roy Hodgson and Steve Clarke years - we had an overall direction as a club: the head coach would identify areas in the team in need of improvement, and the recruitment team would come back with a number of well-scouted potential signings who could play in that position. The final decision would then be made by the Head Coach. This allowed us to build year on year.

Realtedly, the Director of Football played a role in giving us a footballing identity, meaning we recruited head coaches consistent with the type of players we were trying to sign and the type of football we wanted to play. Compare this to what has happened since Ashworth's departure (appointing Pardew to play attacking football with a squad incapable of doing it, and signing good footballers like James Chester who Pulis had no intention of playing in his correct position). Crucially, this highlights the importance of hiring the right Director of Football - not just anyone (as Burton was a disaster in the role due to a lack of contemporary footballing knowledge).

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: maccbaggie on September 01, 2018, 10:18:26 AM
We probably can't find one willing to do it for nothing.
There is an old saying, too many cook's spoil the broth, and that is our problem, plus most of the ones we employ aren't actually cooks.
Oh for the day's of a captain, a manager and get on with it.
Now any decision has to be made by an army of people. This is why everyone beats us to targets in the window.
What a load of rubbish. It was allowing Pulis to dismantle the scouting network that got us into this mess - singing ageing carthorses like Lambert, Barry, Fletcher et al. This meant that when Pulis left we were left unable to attempt any other type of football with success.

Under the DoF system, the head coach has final say on any player - but he's prevented from just signing his mates who haven't been scouted by a strong scouting network.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: AlbionBest on September 01, 2018, 10:22:45 AM
All a bit too late now with the Window shutting !!!

But seriously, this really is such a key appointment for any major club and should have been virtually top of the agenda.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 01, 2018, 10:29:51 AM
This should have been our second appointment this summer, after Moore. Assuming we will be appointing one as a matter of priority now. Steve Walsh would be the obvious choice, we need to actually get some sort of scouting system up and running ASAP as Terraneo sacked them all.
I think it should have been the first appointment actually, because the appointment of the Head Coach should be decided by the Director of Football, as the head coach position reports in to him.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: P Anderson on September 01, 2018, 10:33:02 AM
100% agree maccbaggy, the day pulls stated he wanted to pick his own players to buy, should have set alarm bells ringing.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: divinewind on September 01, 2018, 10:42:42 AM
If we have no intention of spending any money then good scouts are a must. We used to have the best. All of our great players cost us little or nothing. Sadly the people in this department today can't tell a prospect from an has been or even a never was.

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: tuamigos on September 01, 2018, 10:50:54 AM
We did appoint a DoF.
The problem being that like so many of our recent appointments he was pants.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on September 01, 2018, 10:56:40 AM
Jenkins said there are not out there so we were struggling.

It is a nonsense of course. The German FA run courses for them, much like we run coaching courses. Nations all around Europe have no problem finding good ones.

Equally, we could look at the top head scouts and academy managers and see if they could adapt. That is a common route to these sort of roles as the skill sets are similar.

It is a vital role that can set the direction of the club in the longer term going forward.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: baggie96 on September 01, 2018, 11:02:16 AM
A club like ours shouldn’t be relying on tried and trusted players as they are way too expensive. We shouldn’t be after players like Dack for £15 million, we should be after players who have the potential to break through like Blackburn did with Dack last year when they paid 750k for him. Conor Townsend is a great example, he’s looked excellent every time he’s played so far. Pulis really did rip our club apart by completely dismantling our structure.

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on September 01, 2018, 11:11:24 AM
A DoF is key. Personally I would have started the summer as that being the number 1 priority. We appointed  Giuliano Terraneo as a Technical consultant which seems to have been an ownership initiative and has gone very badly. His contract is up shortly so hopefully we can move on.

I suspect there is a major rebuild to be carried out behind the scenes. The scouts we employ directly are only the tip of the iceberg there is a lot of recruitment analysis that can be done from a desk and there is often a broader scouting network which the club can tap into on an assignment basis. As such if we appoint a strong Dof we will start to see the fruits of his labour next summer but they need to be appointed sooner rather than latter.   
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: baggiejohn on September 01, 2018, 11:14:10 AM
I think it should have been the first appointment actually, because the appointment of the Head Coach should be decided by the Director of Football, as the head coach position reports in to him.

Not sure that's the case any more.

The DoF & Head Coach tend to be at the same level on the football club hierarchy.

The head coach is responsible for identifying players for the first team squad and preparing them for matchday.

The DoF is responsible for the mechanism which supports the Head Coach (Scouting, Academy & player development, player well-being etc)
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: baggiejohn on September 01, 2018, 11:20:02 AM
A DoF is key. Personally I would have started the summer as that being the number 1 priority. We appointed  Giuliano Terraneo as a Technical consultant which seems to have been an ownership initiative and has gone very badly. His contract is up shortly so hopefully we can move on.

I suspect there is a major rebuild to be carried out behind the scenes. The scouts we employ directly are only the tip of the iceberg there is a lot of recruitment analysis that can be done from a desk and there is often a broader scouting network which the club can tap into on an assignment basis. As such if we appoint a strong Dof we will start to see the fruits of his labour next summer but they need to be appointed sooner rather than latter.


I believe that it was a number 1 priority at the beginning of the summer, but it seems to me that idealism quickly turned to pragmatism especially when the Terraneo appointment went belly up.

I believe the focus will be on a new DoF now that the window has closed.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on September 04, 2018, 06:50:06 AM
Jenkins going to China for meeting with Lai to discuss DoF appointment among other thing which is progress I guess.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/09/04/west-brom-chief-executive-mark-jenkins-flies-to-china-for-talks-with-owner-guochuan-lai/
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on September 04, 2018, 08:24:53 AM
Hard to comment on the Terraneo mess, apart from him being wholy unsuitable for us from the outset, but I am surprised at the suggestion in the article that Moore and Jenkins were put off by Terraneo looking at the continent for players.

While it is admirable to have so many British players in our match day squad, it is unsustainable for a club of our budget to survive only on English players as they are too expensive and there is not enough choice. We need the new director of football to be able to look both at domestic and international targets. I really hope Jenkins isn't going to hire some British centric dinosaur. I have very little faith in his recruiting skills.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: baggiejohn on September 04, 2018, 08:54:36 AM
Hard to comment on the Terraneo mess, apart from him being wholy unsuitable for us from the outset, but I am surprised at the suggestion in the article that Moore and Jenkins were put off by Terraneo looking at the continent for players.

While it is admirable to have so many British players in our match day squad, it is unsustainable for a club of our budget to survive only on English players as they are too expensive and there is not enough choice. We need the new director of football to be able to look both at domestic and international targets. I really hope Jenkins isn't going to hire some British centric dinosaur. I have very little faith in his recruiting skills.

I'm not sure Matt said that.

He said Moore & Jenkins were not particularly impressed by the players who Terraneo put forward, who were continental & principally Italian
As a result they went to a knowledge base from DM & his coaching staff.

I agree, our player search should be strategic & global.



Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: divinewind on September 04, 2018, 08:57:13 AM
Why does Jenkins have to keep going to China to discuss things? I thought Lai was sending his own man over here as chairman? Does anyone from Wolves or Villa have to keep going to China?
I have said before that football is a simple game, you don't have to travel half way round the world to ask a China man for advice.
Jeeez.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: maccbaggie on September 04, 2018, 11:02:37 AM
Hard to comment on the Terraneo mess, apart from him being wholy unsuitable for us from the outset, but I am surprised at the suggestion in the article that Moore and Jenkins were put off by Terraneo looking at the continent for players.

While it is admirable to have so many British players in our match day squad, it is unsustainable for a club of our budget to survive only on English players as they are too expensive and there is not enough choice. We need the new director of football to be able to look both at domestic and international targets. I really hope Jenkins isn't going to hire some British centric dinosaur. I have very little faith in his recruiting skills.
I also find this concerning - in order for a club like ours to overachieve again in future, with ambitions of mid-table Premier League finishes, we will need to tap into the continental market. This offers much more value and choice, as opposed to restricting ourselves to only the English leagues, which tends to come along with a premium on transfer fees.

We need to utilise an international scouting network with the potential to unearth the next Gera, Yacob, Mulumbu, Odemwingie, Koren, etc.

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: maccbaggie on September 04, 2018, 11:04:22 AM

I believe that it was a number 1 priority at the beginning of the summer, but it seems to me that idealism quickly turned to pragmatism especially when the Terraneo appointment went belly up.

I believe the focus will be on a new DoF now that the window has closed.
This is the concerning quote:

"Head coach Darren Moore and Jenkins were unconvinced by the players he was recommending, who primarily came from the continent, and in particular Italy. By contrast, Moore and Jenkins were keener to bring in British experience."

I really hope this doesn't mean we hire someone who restricts us only to the British market.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: baggiejohn on September 04, 2018, 11:25:32 AM
This is the concerning quote:

"Head coach Darren Moore and Jenkins were unconvinced by the players he was recommending, who primarily came from the continent, and in particular Italy. By contrast, Moore and Jenkins were keener to bring in British experience."

I really hope this doesn't mean we hire someone who restricts us only to the British market.

Of course Moore & Jenkins were keener to bring in British experience, they defaulted to what they (& particularly Moore) knew.
The owner decided to sack the one person who did have a handle on the market.

In an ideal situation, I believe we should search a global market, but I don't know the implications of us leaving the EU next year. I would assume that Jenkins does.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on September 04, 2018, 12:14:55 PM
With no scouting network to speak of seems sensible that Darren stuck to British Isles for players . Once DoF is in place and scouts are sourced then Big Dave will set his net further I imagine.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on September 04, 2018, 12:22:08 PM
I don't think it was purely a British v Overseas issue. Terranero bought them a series of totally unscouted players. Whereas Moore and Jenkins went with players already known to the club. In my opinion they were completely right to do so.

I have long advocated looking overseas but there has to be a process behind it and frankly just relying on the knowledge of a fly by night consultant is asking for trouble.

We need a Dof badly!!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Oldbury24 on September 04, 2018, 12:35:17 PM
This is the concerning quote:

"Head coach Darren Moore and Jenkins were unconvinced by the players he was recommending, who primarily came from the continent, and in particular Italy. By contrast, Moore and Jenkins were keener to bring in British experience."

I really hope this doesn't mean we hire someone who restricts us only to the British market.

I did wonder at the time how relevant the appointment was.  Terraneo's CV boasted the likes of Lazio, Inter Milan and most recently Fernerbache for whome he signed Van Persi and Nani.  How many players in his little black book would be suitable for a newly relegated West Brom FC in the Black Country?  What level of players from Serie A would be keen to move to a club in the midlands who no longer pay top level salaries.  Always struck me as a bit of a vanity appointment by the Chinese owners.   

At this point I would put my trust in Moore, who knows the kind of player he needs for his team.   A good DF will be presenting the manager with options based on HIS requirements both technically but more importantly in regards to character and personality.   
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: divinewind on September 04, 2018, 12:51:14 PM
I have no problem at all with British players providing they are good enough. The influx of foreign players has weakened the national team.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Backofthenet on September 04, 2018, 01:27:34 PM
When did football become so complicated. Surely a manager knows (or should know) the players and type of player he wants. After all he is responsible for building the team and is judged on the results. That being the case why is someone else having the say. Yes it's impossible for a manager to cover the globe in person but I would have thought he would have recruited various people who would have been well briefed as to his requirements and then if there was real interest he would go himself and have a couple of looks to verify.
People with fancy titles don't win games but they do drain finance.
The job as throw in coach at Liverpool is a clear indication of where football is going. For crying out loud - all of us know how to take a throw in. Get your feet behind the line, two hands on the ball and 'surprise' throw in in - preferably to one of your own players. That's why its called a throw in !! 
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 04, 2018, 01:52:47 PM
As the fan of a club notoriously bad at throw ins for the entire 25 plus years of me following a dedicated coach sounds just the thing up the Albion. But I digress.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albionic on September 04, 2018, 02:08:01 PM
As the fan of a club notoriously bad at throw ins for the entire 25 plus years of me following a dedicated coach sounds just the thing up the Albion. But I digress.

"notoriously bad", where is this notoriety documented pray tell?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: maccbaggie on September 04, 2018, 02:50:10 PM
I did wonder at the time how relevant the appointment was.  Terraneo's CV boasted the likes of Lazio, Inter Milan and most recently Fernerbache for whome he signed Van Persi and Nani.  How many players in his little black book would be suitable for a newly relegated West Brom FC in the Black Country?  What level of players from Serie A would be keen to move to a club in the midlands who no longer pay top level salaries.  Always struck me as a bit of a vanity appointment by the Chinese owners.   

At this point I would put my trust in Moore, who knows the kind of player he needs for his team.  A good DF will be presenting the manager with options based on HIS requirements both technically but more importantly in regards to character and personality. 
I agree entirely that the appointment of Terraneo was the wrong one, and it is right that he was marginalised - it's clear from his time at Fernerbahce that he signed players based on name and reputation rather than current or potential footballing ability.

However, limiting our recruitment to the English leagues will make it much harder to get value for money on players, and restricts our market of potential signings massively. A wider recruitment policy has worked well for us previously in the Championship, signing players like Robert Koren on a free.

With the highlighted comment, are you suggesting that a non-British player would not have the right character or personality?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BigFrank20 on September 04, 2018, 03:53:04 PM
As the fan of a club notoriously bad at throw ins for the entire 25 plus years of me following a dedicated coach sounds just the thing up the Albion. But I digress.
"notoriously bad", where is this notoriety documented pray tell?
I'm with Jacko here. I was convinced Pulis and the other idjut had a hard and fast rule that only whoever was playing at full back was allowed to take a throw in. Now at least we are not waiting for a full back to amble up and lob it in somewhere (mostly because we don't seem to have any fullbacks anymore!)
COYB
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albionic on September 04, 2018, 04:04:59 PM
Well I have never seen anything or anyone decry our ability to take throw ins. (until now)
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BigFrank20 on September 04, 2018, 04:13:55 PM
Well I have never seen anything or anyone decry our ability to take throw ins. (until now)
Here you go  ;)
No, not part of the squad. Even his throw ins were bad on Saturday. Livermore kept telling him off.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albionic on September 04, 2018, 04:33:17 PM
Here you go  ;)

Hardly notorious is it, one throw away comment from 17GD !

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on September 04, 2018, 04:39:26 PM
When did football become so complicated. Surely a manager knows (or should know) the players and type of player he wants. After all he is responsible for building the team and is judged on the results. That being the case why is someone else having the say. Yes it's impossible for a manager to cover the globe in person but I would have thought he would have recruited various people who would have been well briefed as to his requirements and then if there was real interest he would go himself and have a couple of looks to verify.
People with fancy titles don't win games but they do drain finance.
The job as throw in coach at Liverpool is a clear indication of where football is going. For crying out loud - all of us know how to take a throw in. Get your feet behind the line, two hands on the ball and 'surprise' throw in in - preferably to one of your own players. That's why its called a throw in !!

Football became complicated when it became a globilised multi billion pound industry. Clubs spend more money now to get an advantage on their rivals and clubs have become more professional. Football clubs are no longer run like small businesses, they have grown and now have more specialised roles.

If Moore needs to manage the scouting department and co-ordinate which targets get more attention etc, it takes him away from planning for the next match. I want Moore to pay attention to our opponents weaknesses and also train our players to fit into his desired formation etc. I also don't want somebody in charge of transfer business who takes a short termist approach like Pulis used to. Managers will scout players for the here and now because they need instant success to keep their jobs. A director of football knows he has more time so can put in place more long term plans. He also takes the burden away from managers, freeing them up to coach and study the opposition.

As for a throw in coach, apparantly there is a move amongst the top clubs to hire "restart coaches" who specialise in goalkicks, kick offs and throw ins as there are around 50 or so per game so they want to gain an advantage from them (the marginal gains principal). I understand the idea and I have no problem with the principal, but i'm not sure why it needs a dedicated coach. All it really needs is a consultancy period working with the manager and coaches so that they can learn the best practice. Surely the coaches will then be able to take that away and develop it. That is their job as coaches after all.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Backofthenet on September 04, 2018, 04:48:29 PM
Thanks for that Baggies - explains a lot to me. I'm probably a bit to 'Old School' for all this.
Probably because I realised football was in existence way before the Premier League and there are more than a supposed elite 20 clubs who actually play this game.
However I can see the total sense in your reasoning about coaches for certain situations. I suppose times have changed but not always for the better.
Cheers
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on September 04, 2018, 04:53:57 PM
Thanks for that Baggies - explains a lot to me. I'm probably a bit to 'Old School' for all this.
Probably because I realised football was in existence way before the Premier League and there are more than a supposed elite 20 clubs who actually play this game.
However I can see the total sense in your reasoning about coaches for certain situations. I suppose times have changed but not always for the better.
Cheers

Football lost a lot of it's charm when money became the main driver. The day the likes of Ajax, Red star belgrade, Celtic, Malmo and the lesser lights of the top leagues like Hamburg, Sampdoria and Everton started to fade away, was when you knew football had changed beyond repair
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Oldbury24 on September 04, 2018, 05:08:44 PM
I agree entirely that the appointment of Terraneo was the wrong one, and it is right that he was marginalised - it's clear from his time at Fernerbahce that he signed players based on name and reputation rather than current or potential footballing ability.

However, limiting our recruitment to the English leagues will make it much harder to get value for money on players, and restricts our market of potential signings massively. A wider recruitment policy has worked well for us previously in the Championship, signing players like Robert Koren on a free.

With the highlighted comment, are you suggesting that a non-British player would not have the right character or personality?

Nope! I'm saying that there is more to signing a player than statistics and technical ability.  What is his motivation for joining the club, does he have a good reputation as a team man, is he a natural leader or somebody open to new ideas?  I'm sure if a DoF offered Darren Moore a Gera, Koren or Mulumbu he would take them based on their ability and reputation regardless of nationality. 
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on September 06, 2018, 06:36:09 AM
Possible name being linked with the role Luke Dowling currently Forest's Technical Director ex Watford although only joined Forest in January although some suggestion that he has been sidelined because of the ownership's close working relationship with Mendes. 

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/09/05/nottingham-forest-sporting-director-luke-dowling-reportedly-on-west-broms-radar/
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on September 06, 2018, 04:25:13 PM
Hard to judge if Dowling is a good fit based on the available facts.

On the one side, he was the youngest director of football in the premier league when Watford first got promoted and he has overseen a couple of good years there. Equally, he was offered a new contract at the club but turned it down "to explore new opportunities". He clearly had experience so may seem a safer bet to the board.

On the flip side, Watford do not seem to have fought tooth and nail to keep him which we would have done to keep Ashworth, and his exit does not seem to have harmed Watford. The fact he chose to leave there in the first place could be explained by him not feeling he had enough influence, as Watford are run by the Pozzi family alongside sister clubs Udinese and Grenada and their business often seems to run along the same lines. If he didn't have all that much influence, ala Hammond and Terraneo when they were here, it is hard to judge how much he influenced Watford's rise.

Equally, Forest have brought him in now but then sodelined him quite quick. Can we take anything from that? Probably harsh as their new owner came in after he arrived by the looks of it and has gone down the Wolves route.

It might be the right move but I don't have much faith in a club that have made poor appointment after poor appointment since Ashworth left, mostly by Jenkins, culminating in brining in Hammond simply on the basis that he was experienced (but at what exactly, he never established Reading in the prem despite an extended period in charge?).

My preference would have been a more imaginative move, maybe headhunting a top academy director from the UK or abroad and offering them a payrise or promotion, or maybe even looking abroad for a successful tech director from a club with less financial clout in France or Germany.

Still, if he comes in, I will just cross my fingers that he was the best choice after an exhaustive process, and that there were things we wouldn't know about him that have impressed Jenkins and whoever else makes decisions at the club now.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: 1954 on September 06, 2018, 06:00:07 PM
With no scouting network to speak of seems sensible that Darren stuck to British Isles for players . Once DoF is in place and scouts are sourced then Big Dave will set his net further I imagine.
We were told by Nick Hammond at a Shareholders for Albion meeting that he was expanding our scouting network and he mentioned the number of increased staff being appointed (can't remember the  numbers but it was not insignificant). Anybody know if following our relegation we have short sightedly cut the numbers (apart from Hammond himself☺)
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: kirk on September 07, 2018, 06:47:41 AM
Judging by our last signing and the people who are training with us I think our scouts are spending all their time at the Chelsea pensioners accommodation
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: baggie96 on September 08, 2018, 09:03:46 PM
Heard Lee Darnborough is in the frame, used to work for us when Ashworth was here
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on September 09, 2018, 08:52:06 AM
Lee Darnborough? That really would be getting the band back together.

Since leaving us in 2012 he has worked in various Analyst/Scouting roles for Burnley,Norwich and he is currently at Hull City. To be honest I simply don't know what to make of that CV.

At Burnley not sure what the role was nor what credit he could claim for their relative success. At Norwich (2015 to 2017)  he was described as Chief Scout working for Tony Spearing (ex Albion Head of European Scouting)  who was Head of Recruitment. Both were shown the door when Norwich appointed a new Technical Director in April 2017.

Darnborough then moves to Hull as Head of Recruitment and has had 2 summers there. He has zero budget and a need to reduce the wage bill so getting eleven players out on the pitch is probably an achievement. Incidentally to complete the Albion old boys update Stuart White is also a scout at Hull.

Not sure what to make of it. He has survived so must have a decent reputation in the game people who have worked with him the past have hired him and by the looks of it promoted him to bigger roles which they don't do if he is lazy and or incompetent.     
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on September 10, 2018, 12:05:26 AM
Darnborough would be another appointment like the Garlick one - shoe horn somebody in who you know from working with them in the past and ignoring their lack of experience or evidence he is poorly suited.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Signor_Maresca on September 10, 2018, 04:04:01 PM
Lee Darnborough was seriously rated when he was at the Albion.  The club were gutted when he left.  Don't know too much about him to be honest nor how he has done since leaving us.

Coincidentally Stuart White now of Hull tweeted the other day "had some great news today about a good friend who has been through a lot and deserves the big break he's just had.  One club's loss is definitely another club's gain in this case".  James Shan was one of the first people to 'like' the tweet.  Obviously this could relate to a million and one things and is more than likely completely unrelated.  But you never know.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: stoxman on September 11, 2018, 09:44:27 PM
The thow in coach is easy to mock but when we suspend reality for a moment, all of football becomes slightly ridiculous doesn’t it?  A goal keeping coach who spends 4 hours a day telling a 35 year old bloke who has been a goalie for 25 years that he needs to stop shots, catch corners and shout a bit??

For me, a throw in coach makes as much sense (in the bonkers world of football) as anything else.   It’s all about fine margins and if you take a £50m player on £100k per week and can squeeze that little bit out of him that can add 5 assists and 5 goals a season out of the team, that’s a bargain even if you pay him £200k a year.  In fact, to not pay that it’s like having a Ferrari and running it on paraffin.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 11, 2018, 10:22:16 PM
The thow in coach is easy to mock but when we suspend reality for a moment, all of football becomes slightly ridiculous doesn’t it?  A goal keeping coach who spends 4 hours a day telling a 35 year old bloke who has been a goalie for 25 years that he needs to stop shots, catch corners and shout a bit??

For me, a throw in coach makes as much sense (in the bonkers world of football) as anything else.   It’s all about fine margins and if you take a £50m player on £100k per week and can squeeze that little bit out of him that can add 5 assists and 5 goals a season out of the team, that’s a bargain even if you pay him £200k a year.  In fact, to not pay that it’s like having a Ferrari and running it on paraffin.
The amount of times last season we failed to find our our man was disgusting. This season still looks hard.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Hull Baggie on September 12, 2018, 07:45:38 AM
As interesting as the debate about different coaches is, can we keep this thread to talk about our DoF please.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Wigmore on September 25, 2018, 12:16:45 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6203445/West-Brom-primed-appoint-Luke-Dowling-new-technical-director.html

West Brom primed to appoint Luke Dowling as new technical director after closing in on compensation agreement with Nottingham Forest
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Wigmore on September 26, 2018, 10:11:24 AM
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/september/albion-appoint-sporting-and-technical-director/
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: don1thedon on September 26, 2018, 10:36:06 AM
Welcome to The Baggies Luke, here's hoping you're a great success!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 26, 2018, 10:38:11 AM
We certainly needed someone, as Matt Wilson said on Twitter about it, we leaned too heavily on Jenkins and Moore for recruitment this summer and I wouldn't trust either of them in that capacity.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on September 26, 2018, 01:01:03 PM
Glad we have finally got somebody in place. Hard to judge Dowling's previous success - the structure at Watford is strange with the Pozzi family clubs swapping players, and then Mendes seems to have gained a large influence at Forest so what Dowling's role was is hard to work out.

Hopefully though he is the man to put us back on the right track. He defintely seems a better choice than Terraneo who looked an odd fit from the start.

Personal preference would have been to look to Germany, or maybe head hunt a top academy director, but that was only because I wanted proof the club genuinely had spread the net far and wide with a thorough recruitment process. Dowling may well be the perfect fit so hopefully we have our man.

We do need to trust him with more responsibility than we gave Hammind however. Little point him being here unless he has a large amount of responsibility and say.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 26, 2018, 01:49:00 PM
Welcome Luke - it's not before time that we've got an appropriate person in for this post. Let's hope he can quickly introduce some coherent, cohesive and beneficial strategies. There's a lot to put straight.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: liverbaggie on September 26, 2018, 02:33:25 PM
Hey Luke,may the force be with you!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on September 27, 2018, 01:12:52 AM
I think Dowling has a big task on his hands it is plain our scouting reach is not what it used to be and while he is an experienced professional without the network in place to watch prospects there is a limit to what any Dof can do.

It was interesting that in his comments in the press he referenced where the club used to be 5 years ago as being the model that other clubs used to aspire to. It is a measure of how much ground we have lost and how poorly we have been managed but hopefully this appointment is another step in our recovery. Given the quote I would assume that his brief is to replicate the model that made us successful under Ashworth. 
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on September 27, 2018, 07:48:24 AM
you could say lost ground. however in reality is that from the meddling of Burton while Irvine was here and then the total destruction of the scouting department by Pulis we are back to square one and having to rebuild what we once had.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SmethDan on September 27, 2018, 09:55:49 AM
you could say lost ground. however in reality is that from the meddling of Burton while Irvine was here and then the total destruction of the scouting department by Pulis we are back to square one and having to rebuild what we once had.

While we're on the subject let's not forget the (alleged) festering boil otherwise known as David McDonough.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Pie on September 27, 2018, 10:05:27 AM
Hopefully the start of more intelligent signings via a network of scouts etc that seem to have gone AWOL over the last few years.

Good luck to Mr. Dowling
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: tuamigos on September 27, 2018, 10:57:56 AM
I hope he's looking for new players that will be ready to move over on Jan 1st.
Need to have an player ready to bring in if we loose Barnes
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: DaveWBA on September 27, 2018, 11:07:23 AM
I hope he's looking for new players that will be ready to move over on Jan 1st.
Need to have an player ready to bring in if we loose Barnes

Dack or Sawyers.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: tuamigos on September 27, 2018, 11:14:53 AM
Dack or Sawyers.

Be very surprised if Blackburn or Brentford will let either of these go given their relative League positions at the moment
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: koren on September 27, 2018, 01:50:54 PM
We failed to find a suitable replacement since Dan Ashworth left, hopefully Luke Dowling would be the right one.

Many tasks ahead of him, the first one would be the winter transfer window. It would be decisive for our promotion chance.


 
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on September 28, 2018, 07:42:51 AM
you could say lost ground. however in reality is that from the meddling of Burton while Irvine was here and then the total destruction of the scouting department by Pulis we are back to square one and having to rebuild what we once had.

It is difficult to gauge exactly what our capacity is on this front. The club directory lists the following as being the recruitment department

 RECRUITMENT MANAGER: Jonathan Gibson

SENIOR SCOUTS: Jeff Baskerville, Michael Trusson

REGIONAL SCOUT: Alan Cork

RECRUITMENT ANALYST: Matthew Belcher

Now this looks pretty thin but the club can and will engage scouts on an assignment basis to give them extra coverage so that is not the complete picture but what is significant is there is nobody responsible for European Scouting which was Tony Spearing's role up until he left in January 2015.

When Hammond was appointed I believe part of his brief was to expand the scope of our recruitment but what was the point? Although Pulis watching a couple of AFCON games on TV resulted in Hegazi and Gabir being recruited (who needs scouts when you have a couple of cans of Carling and a remote control?).

Long term this needs a major upgrade in the short term Dowling will have to make do with what we have and January could be quite a challenge. The earliest we will see any difference in our recruitment is the summer, January will be very similar to what has just happened, smart processes will take time to bed in but in the meantime he could always fall back on the collective wisdom of westbrom.com  ::)

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: A5HB on September 28, 2018, 09:18:28 AM
It is difficult to gauge exactly what our capacity is on this front. The club directory lists the following as being the recruitment department

 RECRUITMENT MANAGER: Jonathan Gibson

SENIOR SCOUTS: Jeff Baskerville, Michael Trusson

REGIONAL SCOUT: Alan Cork

RECRUITMENT ANALYST: Matthew Belcher

Now this looks pretty thin but the club can and will engage scouts on an assignment basis to give them extra coverage so that is not the complete picture but what is significant is there is nobody responsible for European Scouting which was Tony Spearing's role up until he left in January 2015.

When Hammond was appointed I believe part of his brief was to expand the scope of our recruitment but what was the point? Although Pulis watching a couple of AFCON games on TV resulted in Hegazi and Gabir being recruited (who needs scouts when you have a couple of cans of Carling and a remote control?).

Long term this needs a major upgrade in the short term Dowling will have to make do with what we have and January could be quite a challenge. The earliest we will see any difference in our recruitment is the summer, January will be very similar to what has just happened, smart processes will take time to bed in but in the meantime he could always fall back on the collective wisdom of westbrom.com  ::)
I do remember hearing or reading Garlick talking about this  few years ago actually. He was saying that years ago under the likes of Dan we had a huge number of scouts and watched a massive number of players. This gave us a huge amount of coverage but really limited the level of detail as there just wasn’t time.

When Pulis arrived, he asked to reduce the number of scouts and the areas we looked at so that we would be able to watch a smaller pool more closely. It means we’d watch less players, but we would end up with more detailed information. I’d imagine the current set up is in line with this strategy. In reality, we probably need something in the middle.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albionic on September 28, 2018, 12:20:21 PM
Its a competitive game both on and off the field, meaning to be the best we need the best / smartest operations, to find the best quality in the world you have to scour the world.

Before someone says it, we will never be the best because of resources, but we DO need to be better than those we are competing with, If we currently consider our competition to be Dirty Leeds / Boring Boro / Mensheep....  we have to ask is our recruitment better than those guys?

Leeds, basket case chopping and changing every few months, but seems the latest owner is bringing some stability, larger resources than us, therefore we have to out smart them

Boro, I almost typed "an interesting one" how ironic!!, we know what TP wants (Big / Brit, Biddable) will he find it? the pool is getting smaller and more expensive, but, TP does what TP does, we need to out smart him - tough ask over 46 games

Derby, Fat frank has been backed to the hilt and there are some parallels to Darrens situation, I personally doubt DM will have the resources available to him that Lampard will - need to outsmart them

If we can finish this season competing with these 3 it will be either because we kept enough quality post relegation, or, because everyone at the club (on & off pitch) has combined to out perform the opposition, I think we can run them close but it will be fine margins which decide how this season plays out IMO.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on September 29, 2018, 12:41:01 AM
I do remember hearing or reading Garlick talking about this  few years ago actually. He was saying that years ago under the likes of Dan we had a huge number of scouts and watched a massive number of players. This gave us a huge amount of coverage but really limited the level of detail as there just wasn’t time.

When Pulis arrived, he asked to reduce the number of scouts and the areas we looked at so that we would be able to watch a smaller pool more closely. It means we’d watch less players, but we would end up with more detailed information. I’d imagine the current set up is in line with this strategy. In reality, we probably need something in the middle.

I remember Garlick saying that. Of course it was absolute bilge at the time and hasn't aged well. All you need to do to increase the depth of the scouting is to focus the scouts on fewer players rather than reduce the number of scouts. It is the DoF or Head of Recruitment who sends the scouts to look at players they don't wander around taking in random games on the off chance that something good might happen.

On the appointment of Pulis there was less requirement for scouting the whole focus was on British based players who were in the view of the club known quantities. Equally the fall out from the McDonagh debacle when the scouts had specifically warned the club that some of the signings were absolute duds but were over ruled meant that some of the relationships between the key personnel had become strained and it was inevitable that the scouts moved on.

However we are where we are. Even one recruitment analyst can generate a huge pool of potential leads from a combination of data and video but that does require to be followed up with boots on the ground to get a complete picture of a player who we might invest £m's in. It should never be forgotten that a scouting network is relatively cheap whereas players are expensive and ruinously so when they flop.   
 
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: tommcneill on September 29, 2018, 02:59:15 AM
Good luck to him hope it works out and he can help bring some success
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on September 29, 2018, 11:57:24 AM
Great having position filled let's hope the owner backs him iin transfer market.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: beechyboy90 on September 30, 2018, 01:23:59 AM
I hope he is lining up replacements for Barnes in case Leicester recall him. Also a right back option and possibly another centre back.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BalisPen on September 30, 2018, 02:03:52 AM
Welcome to the Albion Luke.

I hope you use the force wisely to get us up and above the dark side (villa).
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on October 17, 2018, 02:35:51 PM
Luke has had first interview and reading between the lines doesn't look like owner is remotely interested in pushing the boat out to fund transfers in January  :(.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: leeiswba on October 17, 2018, 03:54:13 PM
Luke has had first interview and reading between the lines doesn't look like owner is remotely interested in pushing the boat out to fund transfers in January  :(.

Seriously how many times do we have to go through the fact that Lai's money is stuck in China  ???
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: johnny Cash on October 17, 2018, 03:57:28 PM
Seriously how many times do we have to go through the fact that Lai's money is stuck in China  ???

That is also speculation, is it not?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: leeiswba on October 17, 2018, 05:28:30 PM
That is also speculation, is it not?

There is plenty of arcticles about the communist party in China stopping money leaving the country. There was also a meeting last January where a select few had a meeting with John Williams who stated that he was struggling to get money out of China. It is also the reason that Dr Tony up the road had to sell up and why Villa were in trouble because he could not pump anymore of his own money into the club to cover the losses such as tax bills, all his money was stopped from leaving China.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on October 18, 2018, 12:51:33 AM
Seriously how many times do we have to go through the fact that Lai's money is stuck in China  ???
bloke's not interested in the club or the fans and thought he bought a cash cow to milk for a few years then sell for a big profit.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Wigmore on October 18, 2018, 01:12:20 AM
bloke's not interested in the club or the fans and thought he bought a cash cow to milk for a few years then sell for a big profit.
How can you write that without one scintilla of accurate information to support your assertion?
Why have you started this issue on a DoF thread?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BalisPen on October 18, 2018, 01:41:16 AM
From what I have read with the Chinese takeovers at ac Milan and atletico Madrid and Chinese investment in general abroad was that there was a lot of cheap money in China which allowed people to borrow at very low interest rates with the main purpose being for entrepreneurs to invest the cheap money abroad and take the profits back to China.

I think that is what has happened with trump putting tariffs on Chinese exports etc, etc the Chinese cheap money isn't available like it was before.

So I think it is a myth that the rich Chinese cannot get their own money out of China, but a great excuse to placate the masses and deflect attention from the truth.

Alot of Chinese entrepreneurs have bought varying companies from burberry to odeon.

Some have been successful and some have been a disaster.

My concern with Lai is that he had this cheap money and he wasted way to much paying £180m for us, so his business sense is somewhat questionable imo.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on October 18, 2018, 06:44:36 AM
Look here is an interview with Luke Dowling our new Technical Director

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/10/18/luke-dowling-interview--disciple-of-the-west-brom-way-wants-to-bring-it-back-to-the-baggies/

Some interesting stuff in there. Might be a return to finding players that actually work for the team fit in with the style of play etc.. rather than finding the biggest misfit imaginable because they look like a statement of intent.

No we aren't going to push the boat out in January but we might get a couple of canny signings which might make the difference.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: leeiswba on October 18, 2018, 08:09:56 AM
From what I have read with the Chinese takeovers at ac Milan and atletico Madrid and Chinese investment in general abroad was that there was a lot of cheap money in China which allowed people to borrow at very low interest rates with the main purpose being for entrepreneurs to invest the cheap money abroad and take the profits back to China.

I think that is what has happened with trump putting tariffs on Chinese exports etc, etc the Chinese cheap money isn't available like it was before.

So I think it is a myth that the rich Chinese cannot get their own money out of China, but a great excuse to placate the masses and deflect attention from the truth.

Alot of Chinese entrepreneurs have bought varying companies from burberry to odeon.

Some have been successful and some have been a disaster.

My concern with Lai is that he had this cheap money and he wasted way to much paying £180m for us, so his business sense is somewhat questionable imo.

Not sure it’s much of a myth mate to be honest, as I say if you do a quick search it will be reported in every newspaper in the world. Just look at that Cypriot Airline company who have just gone bump some of that is to blame on the Chinese backers who couldn’t get any money to cover losses same as what happened with Villa.

Not sure about Milan & Madrid owners, they could be big investment people like FOSUN who have companies all over the world that results in having easy access to money from anywhere. Mr Lai unfortunately doesn’t have that.

This isn’t aimed at you mate but some Albion fans just seem to dismiss all things like this and believe in some huge conspiracy against the Albion in almost everything.

Sorry for going off track a bit I’ll leave it there and get back to talking about our new DOF
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: seteefeet on October 18, 2018, 09:18:25 AM
No Issues with what he's saying, I couldn't care less what we spend as long as we keep playing the way we are and it works. Going back as far as I can remember (70's) we have always been more successful at finding players from the bargain basement than spending big money.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SmethDan on October 18, 2018, 10:12:15 AM
From what I have read with the Chinese takeovers at ac Milan and atletico Madrid and Chinese investment in general abroad was that there was a lot of cheap money in China which allowed people to borrow at very low interest rates with the main purpose being for entrepreneurs to invest the cheap money abroad and take the profits back to China.

I think that is what has happened with trump putting tariffs on Chinese exports etc, etc the Chinese cheap money isn't available like it was before.

So I think it is a myth that the rich Chinese cannot get their own money out of China, but a great excuse to placate the masses and deflect attention from the truth.

Alot of Chinese entrepreneurs have bought varying companies from burberry to odeon.


Some have been successful and some have been a disaster.

My concern with Lai is that he had this cheap money and he wasted way to much paying £180m for us, so his business sense is somewhat questionable imo.

Wanda bought the Odeon in 2016, pretty sure the clamp down began in 2017.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BalisPen on October 18, 2018, 12:04:34 PM
Not sure it’s much of a myth mate to be honest, as I say if you do a quick search it will be reported in every newspaper in the world. Just look at that Cypriot Airline company who have just gone bump some of that is to blame on the Chinese backers who couldn’t get any money to cover losses same as what happened with Villa.

Not sure about Milan & Madrid owners, they could be big investment people like FOSUN who have companies all over the world that results in having easy access to money from anywhere. Mr Lai unfortunately doesn’t have that.

This isn’t aimed at you mate but some Albion fans just seem to dismiss all things like this and believe in some huge conspiracy against the Albion in almost everything.

Sorry for going off track a bit I’ll leave it there and get back to talking about our new DOF

Atletico was part taken over Wanda, but then they sold their shares as they had to.

My point is imo the myth is that they I have billions of their own money they cannot get to. From what I have read it is very cheap money they could borrow has gone.

It makes no sense for the Chinese government to encourage these entrepreneurs to invest abroad with the intention of buying established companies to bring back anticipated profits back to China, to then put restrictions on the same entrepreneurs taking their "own" money out to fund these businesses.

Such a move would ensure their fellow countryman would potentially lose billions due to lack of funding and they want the opposite in the form of big flowing back to China.

Companies like Wanda have borrowed and therefore owe billions and according to some could go under at any time.

The issue appears they borrowed to speculate and then overpaid for a lot of established companies and when they did not produce the anticipated profits to service the debt they needed more cheap loans money, which is no longer there.

I see your point mate about every newspaper says the same, but please bear in mind that the Chinese government control their press and therefore very little truth will ever get out and whatever lies come out will be copied by other newspapers as gospel.

In essence imo what I'm trying to say is that a lot of these Chinese billionaires, maybe "paper" billionaires, but it is built on debt and certainly is not actual wealth like Paul Allen and Steve Balmer who actually did/do have billions and invest it in their respective sports franchises (I hate that term for teams).

Because of the lack of transparency in China we'll never know the actual wealth of our owner and can only judge him on his conduct to date, which imo has been very amateurish at best.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on October 18, 2018, 12:49:50 PM
Can we discuss our director of football please?

Any issues in relation to the ownership need to be in the relevant thread..
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 18, 2018, 12:56:37 PM
1/ The reason Villa's finances looked a disaster is not because Xia couldn't move money out of China, but because he didn't have much in the first place - Villa's profligacy was borne out of a series of loans secured against future (that is, Premier league) earnings.

2/ Lai doesn't have much money, he was realiant on us being a self-funding Premier league team.

Which brings me to my third point, and the one relevant to this topic.

3/ Dowling should still have the majority of the parachute payment to play with to bring players in. We made a profit on transfers in the Summer, and have a significantly reduced wage bill with Chadli, Evans, Rondon, et al off it, so he should have room to manoeuvre on fees and wages.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on October 18, 2018, 04:20:19 PM
1/ The reason Villa's finances looked a disaster is not because Xia couldn't move money out of China, but because he didn't have much in the first place - Villa's profligacy was borne out of a series of loans secured against future (that is, Premier league) earnings.

2/ Lai doesn't have much money, he was realiant on us being a self-funding Premier league team.

Which brings me to my third point, and the one relevant to this topic.

3/ Dowling should still have the majority of the parachute payment to play with to bring players in. We made a profit on transfers in the Summer, and have a significantly reduced wage bill with Chadli, Evans, Rondon, et al off it, so he should have room to manoeuvre on fees and wages.
from what I'm reading from his interview is that it seems that players will have to be sold to finance transfers. I agree that a lot of our high earners have left but what are the likes of the senior players on weekly.? Are we still playing these players inflated wages reported last y season that HRK had agreed new deal of around £50,000.00 plus and what are the likes of Brunt, Morrison and the likes on?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BalisPen on October 18, 2018, 04:27:26 PM
from what I'm reading from his interview is that it seems that players will have to be sold to finance transfers. I agree that a lot of our high earners have left but what are the likes of the senior players on weekly.? Are we still playing these players inflated wages reported last y season that HRK had agreed new deal of around £50,000.00 plus and what are the likes of Brunt, Morrison and the likes on?

If HRK was ever on £50k (now £25k after relegation clause decrease kicked in) then we might as well pack it in.

One great goal at the euros and that is basically it from this  ok winger turned bad striker.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: leeiswba on October 18, 2018, 05:42:18 PM
from what I'm reading from his interview is that it seems that players will have to be sold to finance transfers. I agree that a lot of our high earners have left but what are the likes of the senior players on weekly.? Are we still playing these players inflated wages reported last y season that HRK had agreed new deal of around £50,000.00 plus and what are the likes of Brunt, Morrison and the likes on?

I’d say they are on about 25k now after their 50% flex down. Basically everyone in the squad now had a 50% relegation clause in their contracts.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on October 18, 2018, 08:30:54 PM
If HRK was ever on £50k (now £25k after relegation clause decrease kicked in) then we might as well pack it in.

One great goal at the euros and that is basically it from this  ok winger turned bad striker.
25 k is still too much for him. My point is has the club under control of Pulis paid players over the odds even with flex down.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albionic on October 19, 2018, 07:46:51 AM
25 k is still too much for him. My point is has the club under control of Pulis paid players over the odds even with flex down.
I
Will answer that question,  Yes !!! Why???
Read the mans history of dubious dealings and then reconcile that with paying over the top for a lad who was failing to achieve expectations and draw your own conclusions
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Wigmore on October 19, 2018, 10:13:12 AM

Read the mans history of dubious dealings and then reconcile that with paying over the top for a lad who was failing to achieve expectations and draw your own conclusions
Although the club does not need to have a committee to oversee transfers, OB is an sad example of allowing a head coach to arrange his own pet transfers, as opposed to having DoF input (and a degree of control) into the transaction. (Anybody fancy a job as DoF in a club were The Capped One resides? ::))
Early days, but there appears to be a far more harmonious relationship between DM and LD which stems from their interactions over a long time.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: seteefeet on October 19, 2018, 11:21:28 AM
Although the club does not need to have a committee to oversee transfers, OB is an sad example of allowing a head coach to arrange his own pet transfers, as opposed to having DoF input (and a degree of control) into the transaction. (Anybody fancy a job as DoF in a club were The Capped One resides? ::))
Early days, but there appears to be a far more harmonious relationship between DM and LD which stems from their interactions over a long time.
Neither seems to be driven by their ego which does indeed make for a far more harmonious relationship. This lack of ego is also one of DM's most endearing and important strengths.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BalisPen on October 19, 2018, 11:56:44 AM
I
Will answer that question,  Yes !!! Why???
Read the mans history of dubious dealings and then reconcile that with paying over the top for a lad who was failing to achieve expectations and draw your own conclusions

How I see it is we had the perfect storm of incompetence/indifference (Williams and goodnan) and ego/deceit (cap man).

The former were just grateful they got one last job in football and didn't want to rock the boat and I imagine pampered to the latter's every whim holding his never been relegated record as an assurance that if he was happy they would keep their jobs.

Yesterday's Birmingham mail yesterday said that 32m was offered by a Chinese club for rondon in Jan 2017.

I can see him threatening to resign if they accepted that offer for him as he allegedly would not get a bung.

At the time the Chinese transfer closed at the end of Feb and I remember saying we should definitely sell as we were on 40 points and we could go with the equally ineffective hrk until the end of the season.

We could just treat it has rondon being injured in effect and then spend the 32m in the summer.

Most fans wanted to keep him though, but a stronger ce and chairman would have seen that as a once in lifetime bid, and offered to give rondon a pggy back to China.

The Evans bid could be seen in the same light but to a lesser extent and LD is correct to say you should sell and be confident that we can replace them.

I truly believe that we suffered more than anyone when palace won that 5.5m compo ruling against cap man.

He was under tremendous pressure then to generate money to pay that.

So who knows what deals were done for the likes of hrk and what alleged payment cap man get under the counter after no one touched hrk until us right at the end of the window.

Then kemp left to "retire"to America and now he is back. This looks like a planned exit strategy by cap man where he he had an excuse for bad results as his right hand man had gone, where really he wanted a pay off and a new signing on bonus with a survival/ promotion bonus at another club.

There is no way Jenkins would have said no to those bids as I believe (or hope) he'd have the backbone to stand upto him.

To be honest Jp should have stood up to him when Newcastle offered 23m for berahino but he wanted to keep his prem status maintained to keep lai hooked and again I could see cap man throwing his toys out the pram as there was nothing in it for him if he went to Newcastle.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albionic on October 19, 2018, 12:02:23 PM
Clearly cannot say if the detail is correct, but I really do believe the principles you are outlining are correct.
An egotist is bad!  An unscrupulous egotist is calamitous for anyone around them, and that is what we had.
Whereas now .........
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BalisPen on October 19, 2018, 12:57:03 PM
Clearly cannot say if the detail is correct, but I really do believe the principles you are outlining are correct.
An egotist is bad an unscrupulous egotist is calamitous for anyone around them, and that is what we had.
Whereas now .........

It was definitely a hierarchy he had their own interests at heart and despite being paid handsomely by us they could not give flying about our best interests as a club.

Add to that a owner in a far away land who knew nothing about football and thought that by keeping cao man would keep his profits from the prem coming in.

It is shocking that the naive lai paid £180m for us and under his watch we reject 32m for rondon, an amount which ironically was what fosun paid for the dingles.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 19, 2018, 10:39:41 PM
Lads, you have previously been asked by a mod to keep this to the Director of Football, please do so to avoid posts being removed.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Dexy on January 16, 2019, 08:03:51 PM
For anybody who attended the last Albion Assembly how did Luke Dowling come over during his Q and A ?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on January 18, 2019, 11:32:58 AM
Did nobody from here attend? Would be interesting to get a feel for what he was like?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 18, 2019, 11:51:53 AM
Did nobody from here attend? Would be interesting to get a feel for what he was like?
Yes, strange isn't it ,The Assembly, a forum for fans, but no feedback on what appears to be the only thing of real interest on the Agenda.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BigFrank20 on January 18, 2019, 12:53:56 PM
For anybody who attended the last Albion Assembly how did Luke Dowling come over during his Q and A ?
Was he not the one who sold the players down the river about funding some free coaches?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: OldburyWBA on January 18, 2019, 01:12:22 PM
Was he not the one who sold the players down the river about funding some free coaches?

Yep, he was the one. Puts the players in a no win situation
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 18, 2019, 01:23:00 PM
Yes, strange isn't it ,The Assembly, a forum for fans, but no feedback on what appears to be the only thing of real interest on the Agenda.


Spot on!  :o
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on January 30, 2019, 12:02:02 AM
Is part of this blokes job to find player's we can sign?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on February 01, 2019, 12:26:30 AM
Not impressed with the job this bloke is doing or is he being hamstrung by Jenkins and owner? Albion used to find a few gems which didn't cost the earth from around the lower leagues and in far flung places, Dorrans, Mulumbu, Yacob, Koren to name a few.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 01, 2019, 12:29:13 AM
Not impressed with the job this bloke is doing or is he being hamstrung by Jenkins and owner? Albion used to find a few gems which didn't cost the earth from around the lower leagues and in far flung places, Dorrans, Mulumbu, Yacob, Koren to name a few.



What are you on about? We also signed Slusarski, Thievy, El Ghanassy, Cox, Beattie. Some absolute sh1te has come through the Albion as well as the successes. This has been a good window, you must be on the wind up. Who did you want in?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: bradleysrocket on February 01, 2019, 12:29:46 AM
Not impressed with the job this bloke is doing or is he being hamstrung by Jenkins and owner? Albion used to find a few gems which didn't cost the earth from around the lower leagues and in far flung places, Dorrans, Mulumbu, Yacob, Koren to name a few.
I don’t care if a player is little known or world famous I only really care if they are capable of improving our match day squad. I’m confident the 4 players recruited this window will do exactly that. That’ll do for me. Furthermore I don’t think any other club in the division has had a better January.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Dan on February 01, 2019, 12:31:26 AM
Not impressed with the job this bloke is doing or is he being hamstrung by Jenkins and owner? Albion used to find a few gems which didn't cost the earth from around the lower leagues and in far flung places, Dorrans, Mulumbu, Yacob, Koren to name a few.

I don't really see the benefit of doing that in our position, if you can get people of proven top quality in this division why wouldn't you? Holgate is too good for this division, Gayle is along with Abraham the best striker in the division, Murphy earned a 12m pound move due to his performances in this division, Johansen was a key player for a team that won automatic promotion last year from this division, Montero proven ability as an impact player this season.....

All shrewd signings with little risk.

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on February 01, 2019, 12:34:40 AM
I don't really see the benefit of doing that in our position, if you can get people of proven top quality in this division why wouldn't you? Holgate is too good for this division, Gayle is along with Abraham the best striker in the division, Murphy earned a 12m pound move due to his performances in this division, Johansen was a key player for a team that won automatic promotion last year from this division.....

All shrewd signings with little risk.
all loan signings, that's my point haven't backed the manager with permanent deals.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Dan on February 01, 2019, 12:41:16 AM
all loan signings, that's my point haven't backed the manager with permanent deals.

But most those players would be either too expensive or not available for permanent deals at all.

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 01, 2019, 12:42:05 AM
all loan signings, that's my point haven't backed the manager with permanent deals.


We wont be in this division next year, we dont want to be lumbered with anymore Championship players than absolutely necessary.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on February 01, 2019, 12:50:58 AM

We wont be in this division next year, we dont want to be lumbered with anymore Championship players than absolutely necessary.
with the squad of players on the books tonight if we go up we would need a minimum of 8 players to fill the positions of all our loans and short term deals great foresight by Jenkins and board.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 01, 2019, 01:01:27 AM
with the squad of players on the books tonight if we go up we would need a minimum of 8 players to fill the positions of all our loans and short term deals great foresight by Jenkins and board.


8 players who if signed permanently now would not be good enough for the Premier League and need replacing anyway but we couldn't because much like Livermore and HRK would have multiple year deals.


You are way off the mark about the merits of our current strategy.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SmethDan on February 01, 2019, 01:30:32 AM
News flash:

West Bromwich Albion strengthen their promotion chasing squad by signing four players during the transfer window.

'P. S': In other news, DivineWind's got a fishing partner.........
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: frazzle on February 01, 2019, 06:27:32 AM
with the squad of players on the books tonight if we go up we would need a minimum of 8 players to fill the positions of all our loans and short term deals great foresight by Jenkins and board.

This is a comment written by someone who fundamentally doesn’t get the bigger picture at all.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on February 01, 2019, 07:10:19 AM
While I don’t entirely agree with paulosull, he does actually touch on a good point, despite the many comments stating he doesn’t Know what he is talking about.

The role of the director of football/technical director, as established out in Europe, is to be in control of the medium to long term planning for a club, which mitigates what a manager would want to do (ie, Harry Redknapp style short termism, whatever suits for the one season ahead).

Now can we say this has been achieved by Dowling this January?

The signings we have made all make us stronger than we were before January. Even taking for the loss of Harvey Barnes, this team now has more balance, better options, a better defence and arguably more goals and assists in the team than before January (we have also potentially countered our over reliance on certain players).

There are also arguments to be made that Dowling has proved his worth in negotiation, getting 3 really useful players over the line yesterday, dealing with last minute curveballs, and avoiding the pitfalls sides like Leeds encountered with the James deal and Villa had with the Fer deal.

This morning, fans at Leeds, Norwich, Sheffield Utd and Boro are looking at us and the majority will likely feel threatened.

But that doesn’t mean this is the perfect window - far from it.

For starters, the best run clubs do not do their business on the final day of the window. They get in earlier and navigate what does seem to be an increasingly more difficult transfer market. Doing everything last minute suggests panic and unpreparedness. Some of the stories coming out of yesterday suggest we were trying to sign anyone and everyone - Sterling, Bojan, Sawyers, Oviedo. Looks scattergun.

There is a question also around the long term planning. Dowling shouldn’t be judged on this window alone because he needs to have a full summer to start thinking about longer term plans, coming in a few months into the season isn’t giving him enough time to really start deeper planning. I did however want to see some evidence of it in his thought process, but there is barely any from what we have done in his 1st window here. If we don’t go up, then maybe a few of these loans can be turned into permanent deals, but if we do go up, the rebuilding job will have to start from scratch this summer, having had 2 consecutive windows where no signing we have made has come in with a view to the future. That is a huge job considering what we already had was ageing, and while i’m now more confident of getting promotion, i’d say we are odds on to come straight back down unless Dowling can have an incredible summer and Moore can work wonders.

I would have hoped for evidence he is prepared to look past our borders as well, instead of limiting ourselves to one market. Brexit might be the concern, but i’ve Seen other clubs this month sign players who are young and up and coming, and in some cases loan them back to their old club. These signings show a club planning for the season after the one they are in, and so I was hoping for one of those to prove our longer term strategy, but that didn’t happen.

Player development wise, we managed to get Burke out on loan, but the majority of our other youngsters have also fell victim to the short term planning. Leko, Edwards and Field all needed loan moves in the summer and all needed loan moves in January. They might play in the FA cup replay, but i’d bank on that being their final appearances of the season. One or two of them may have came back in the summer as genuine options but now you feel they are just stagnating.

If all that matters is this promotion, then yes, it is a good window. But if you scratch the surface, it has added some question marks to Dowling as well. Question marks i’m Just hoping he answers in the summer once he has more time.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Adder on February 01, 2019, 08:35:12 AM
Stating what is pretty obvious. It's difficult to buy players who will definitely be good enough for the prem in the event of promotion, for the wages that we can afford to pay while in the Championship - if we don't go up we have to keep paying permanent signings.
Maybe we are not now looking as much at the underbelly of the squad i.e. signing young players, loaning them out and hoping they are ready in two years time...maybe we are not doing that because we have faith in what the academy lads are going to turn into ....Field, Harper, Edwards, Leko, Tulloch, Rogers, Louie Barry. As these players progress and hopefully earn better contracts with us to ward off interest elsewhere, this will all cost money. Can we also afford to sign young players from elsewhere (unless something smacks us in the face as a must do) ?
It's a complicated picture these days - the standard of the prem has gone up, you only have to look at some of the players that the likes of Leicester, Bournemouth, Watford have. It's difficult for a club like ours to get away from an annual policy fitting the situation we are in that year. i.e. keep improving our youngsters and do the best with the rest of the squad (not keeping players too long unless they obviously deserve it). It's a good window for us in the here and now.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: stoxman on February 01, 2019, 08:40:25 AM

8 players who if signed permanently now would not be good enough for the Premier League and need replacing anyway but we couldn't because much like Livermore and HRK would have multiple year deals.


You are way off the mark about the merits of our current strategy.

I fully agree with Jacko.  It’s a bit like hiring a car on holiday.  You are in a place you don’t want to be long term so why buy a car that isn’t really to your taste and will be hard to get rid of later.   A loan just gets the job done in the short term.  Great window Albion
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 01, 2019, 08:42:30 AM
While I don’t entirely agree with paulosull, he does actually touch on a good point, despite the many comments stating he doesn’t Know what he is talking about.

The role of the director of football/technical director, as established out in Europe, is to be in control of the medium to long term planning for a club, which mitigates what a manager would want to do (ie, Harry Redknapp style short termism, whatever suits for the one season ahead).

Now can we say this has been achieved by Dowling this January?

The signings we have made all make us stronger than we were before January. Even taking for the loss of Harvey Barnes, this team now has more balance, better options, a better defence and arguably more goals and assists in the team than before January (we have also potentially countered our over reliance on certain players).

There are also arguments to be made that Dowling has proved his worth in negotiation, getting 3 really useful players over the line yesterday, dealing with last minute curveballs, and avoiding the pitfalls sides like Leeds encountered with the James deal and Villa had with the Fer deal.

This morning, fans at Leeds, Norwich, Sheffield Utd and Boro are looking at us and the majority will likely feel threatened.

But that doesn’t mean this is the perfect window - far from it.

For starters, the best run clubs do not do their business on the final day of the window. They get in earlier and navigate what does seem to be an increasingly more difficult transfer market. Doing everything last minute suggests panic and unpreparedness. Some of the stories coming out of yesterday suggest we were trying to sign anyone and everyone - Sterling, Bojan, Sawyers, Oviedo. Looks scattergun.

There is a question also around the long term planning. Dowling shouldn’t be judged on this window alone because he needs to have a full summer to start thinking about longer term plans, coming in a few months into the season isn’t giving him enough time to really start deeper planning. I did however want to see some evidence of it in his thought process, but there is barely any from what we have done in his 1st window here. If we don’t go up, then maybe a few of these loans can be turned into permanent deals, but if we do go up, the rebuilding job will have to start from scratch this summer, having had 2 consecutive windows where no signing we have made has come in with a view to the future. That is a huge job considering what we already had was ageing, and while i’m now more confident of getting promotion, i’d say we are odds on to come straight back down unless Dowling can have an incredible summer and Moore can work wonders.

I would have hoped for evidence he is prepared to look past our borders as well, instead of limiting ourselves to one market. Brexit might be the concern, but i’ve Seen other clubs this month sign players who are young and up and coming, and in some cases loan them back to their old club. These signings show a club planning for the season after the one they are in, and so I was hoping for one of those to prove our longer term strategy, but that didn’t happen.

Player development wise, we managed to get Burke out on loan, but the majority of our other youngsters have also fell victim to the short term planning. Leko, Edwards and Field all needed loan moves in the summer and all needed loan moves in January. They might play in the FA cup replay, but i’d bank on that being their final appearances of the season. One or two of them may have came back in the summer as genuine options but now you feel they are just stagnating.

If all that matters is this promotion, then yes, it is a good window. But if you scratch the surface, it has added some question marks to Dowling as well. Question marks i’m Just hoping he answers in the summer once he has more time.

A really interesting post.
However stories about players we are interested in signing are usually just that "stories" so I'm not sure you can say the club had a scattergun/panic approach to signings when we don't know if there was any truth in the stories.
Secondly maybe Murphy, Johansen and Montero were our targets all along but we had to wait for their parent clubs to make their own signings before they would release our targets? That certainly seems to have been the case with Murphy.
 The fact that we got Holgate in early as he was available would suggest that we had to wait to make the signings we did rather than panicking at the end.

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albionic on February 01, 2019, 09:04:30 AM
I fail to understand why people expect

a Premier league quality player would join WBA in the championship, on championship wages and terms including a permanent contract !   When the prospect of promotion is most certainly not guaranteed.

Its just illogical and definitely not a stick to beat the club or club officers with. (there are enough other sticks to choose from)
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 01, 2019, 09:14:54 AM
I hope he's remembered to tell the new blokes he expects them to stump up their share for the supporters coaches to an away game?
COYB SOTV
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: skyclad99 on February 01, 2019, 09:23:37 AM
A really interesting post.
However stories about players we are interested in signing are usually just that "stories" so I'm not sure you can say the club had a scattergun/panic approach to signings when we don't know if there was any truth in the stories.
Secondly maybe Murphy, Johansen and Montero were our targets all along but we had to wait for their parent clubs to make their own signings before they would release our targets? That certainly seems to have been the case with Murphy.
 The fact that we got Holgate in early as he was available would suggest that we had to wait to make the signings we did rather than panicking at the end.

From memory Murphy was on our radar when he elected to go to Newcastle. I remember reading posts about him and the fact that we would probably not get him because he was a Newcastle supporter, which turned out to be true. So I do not believe that Murphy was a scattergun/panic signing, its seems that the club have done their homework with this lad.   
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: miggybaggy on February 01, 2019, 09:28:11 AM
Well I for one am 100% more optimistic about our future now than this time last year.

Great window, well done to all concerned. Its all part of the big re-build following the disastrous reign of Pulis.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: seteefeet on February 01, 2019, 09:58:45 AM
Some people just seem incapable of positivity.
We were in a strong position anyway, 4th, top scorers, on a good run etc. so, even without signings, we would have competed for auto. The fact that we have brought in 3 players that not only improve our squad, but most likely our starting 11, is beyond my expectations.
To complain that  they are "only" on loan, is simply looking for a negative in a positive situation. It's almost as if their pre-deadline cynicism has been dashed so they just have to find something else to moan about.
We are in a very precocious position, whereby promotion is very important, but by no means guaranteed, so buying players on long term contracts and wages, could hamstring us should we fail to go up. By choosing to loan, it allows us to cut our cloth accordingly, whether we get promoted or not.
Good job by all concerned, Moore, Dowling and Jenkins.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: buzzingbaggie on February 01, 2019, 11:47:36 AM
Some people just seem incapable of positivity.
We were in a strong position anyway, 4th, top scorers, on a good run etc. so, even without signings, we would have competed for auto. The fact that we have brought in 3 players that not only improve our squad, but most likely our starting 11, is beyond my expectations.
To complain that  they are "only" on loan, is simply looking for a negative in a positive situation. It's almost as if their pre-deadline cynicism has been dashed so they just have to find something else to moan about.
We are in a very precocious position, whereby promotion is very important, but by no means guaranteed, so buying players on long term contracts and wages, could hamstring us should we fail to go up. By choosing to loan, it allows us to cut our cloth accordingly, whether we get promoted or not.
Good job by all concerned, Moore, Dowling and Jenkins.

Can you like on here, spot on.

Exciting times until t he season end, we'll be there or there about.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: alex1 on February 01, 2019, 11:58:39 AM
Yes, in the ideal world you buy rather than loan to build continuity in the squad. But I'm not at all criticising the current strategy, as we are not a particularly rich club that can just chuck money around. If permanent signings don't come off, we've tied our hands, preventing funds being available for the next windows.
Also, with loan players we get an opportunity to see if they perform and how they blend into the squad. In many cases the club can then decide to turn the loan into a permanaent deal.
 
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: gerry m on February 01, 2019, 12:09:03 PM
Yes, in the ideal world you buy rather than loan to build continuity in the squad. But I'm not at all criticising the current strategy, as we are not a particularly rich club that can just chuck money around. If permanent signings don't come off, we've tied our hands, preventing funds being available for the next windows.
Also, with loan players we get an opportunity to see if they perform and how they blend into the squad. In many cases the club can then decide to turn the loan into a permanaent deal.

Very well put. Should we get back into the Premier League hopefully the purse strings would be loosened to buy who ever we need.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: skyclad99 on February 01, 2019, 12:35:18 PM
Some people just seem incapable of positivity.
We were in a strong position anyway, 4th, top scorers, on a good run etc. so, even without signings, we would have competed for auto. The fact that we have brought in 3 players that not only improve our squad, but most likely our starting 11, is beyond my expectations.
To complain that  they are "only" on loan, is simply looking for a negative in a positive situation. It's almost as if their pre-deadline cynicism has been dashed so they just have to find something else to moan about.
We are in a very precocious position, whereby promotion is very important, but by no means guaranteed, so buying players on long term contracts and wages, could hamstring us should we fail to go up. By choosing to loan, it allows us to cut our cloth accordingly, whether we get promoted or not.
Good job by all concerned, Moore, Dowling and Jenkins.

Thank god Sturridge and Krychowiak were only 'on loan' or else we would have been wound up some time ago!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Backofthenet on February 01, 2019, 12:41:20 PM
To be fair to all at the club, the business done in this window appears to have been done pretty diligently and within everyone's interest.
We aren't breaking the bank for players, we have time to look at the ones we've signed, we (the supporters) are happy that we have new signings to look forward too, the team is being backed and what is more important we haven't been ripped off as a lot are in January for players no-one wants. We also appear to have signed players to do specific jobs and lets hope it is as successful as we currently feel.

Well done to all those involved
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 01, 2019, 01:47:27 PM
I think whether he will be a success or failure in his role will come in the Summer, we have 6 loanees plus Barry/ Brunt getting on and both out of contract in the Summer plus Myhill who I guess would be released for good after the recent performances of Bond allowing for a younger number 3 and then Hoolahan and Mears who will also be released for good so thats 11 players although I expect Brunt to get another deal regardless and then Morrison will decide if we are worthy of him being here again.

Big big Summer regardless of division and if we do go up we cannot rely on loan players as we are doing this season. If we don't go up then we will lose a couple maybe from Dawson, Rodriguez, Phillips, Livermore as I cannot see them wanting another season in this league.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on February 01, 2019, 02:41:55 PM
Missing my point that all these loans hinder the development of our youngsters who are coming through the ranks
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: mulliganstired on February 01, 2019, 03:01:10 PM
Missing my point that all these loans hinder the development of our youngsters who are coming through the ranks
Tough to get the balance right, we did need some bodies in with Barnes and Sako away, but I still hope to see Harper and Field get some starts, and Leko at least on the bench.  Bond should definitely be on the bench now too.  We got it so badly wrong recently, expecially under Pulis, that we lost players like Roofe and Roberts without even giving them a chance.  Whether they're going to be good enough for the prem isn't clear yet, but the academy can't just be for flogging 18/19 y prospects to Oxford and Walsall to cover costs or we may as well not bother.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on February 01, 2019, 03:09:20 PM
Tough to get the balance right, we did need some bodies in with Barnes and Sako away, but I still hope to see Harper and Field get some starts, and Leko at least on the bench.  Bond should definitely be on the bench now too.  We got it so badly wrong recently, expecially under Pulis, that we lost players like Roofe and Roberts without even giving them a chance.  Whether they're going to be good enough for the prem isn't clear yet, but the academy can't just be for flogging 18/19 y prospects to Oxford and Walsall to cover costs or we may as well not bother.
really impressed with Bond looks a cracking prospect,
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: seteefeet on February 01, 2019, 03:24:26 PM
Missing my point that all these loans hinder the development of our youngsters who are coming through the ranks
It won't hinder them if they are good enough.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: AlbionFan on February 01, 2019, 06:04:35 PM
I think whether he will be a success or failure in his role will come in the Summer, we have 6 loanees plus Barry/ Brunt getting on and both out of contract in the Summer plus Myhill who I guess would be released for good after the recent performances of Bond allowing for a younger number 3 and then Hoolahan and Mears who will also be released for good so thats 11 players although I expect Brunt to get another deal regardless and then Morrison will decide if we are worthy of him being here again.

Big big Summer regardless of division and if we do go up we cannot rely on loan players as we are doing this season. If we don't go up then we will lose a couple maybe from Dawson, Rodriguez, Phillips, Livermore as I cannot see them wanting another season in this league.

Agree with all of that, but, and there's always a but, it depends on whether or not Mr Lai is prepared to back Luke and by how much (£m's)
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 01, 2019, 07:18:11 PM
Not impressed with the job this bloke is doing or is he being hamstrung by Jenkins and owner? Albion used to find a few gems which didn't cost the earth from around the lower leagues and in far flung places, Dorrans, Mulumbu, Yacob, Koren to name a few.

Nope wrong.  Simply wrong.   Football has moved on, had you not noticed.

Job is to get in players to help us get promoted.   This guarantees money in the bank.  Then we build in the summer for the future.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on February 01, 2019, 08:36:26 PM
Several points here.

Any Director Football can only work within the budget that the club sets their job is to the best he can within the parameters that they are given.

The fall out from relegation is that the club will be in state of flux consider the structure of the parachute payments and the Championship broadcast income.

Year 1 £42m
Year 2 £34m
Year 3 £17m
Year 4 £7.6m

Contracts that the club could comfortably afford now will be obviously be out of our range in year 3 let alone year 4 this greatly limits our ability to offer permanent contracts. To give a praticial example in terms of what that means is that is we can afford the Holgate loan this year and next but it will only happening in  year 3 and 4 if Everton are happy to pick up some of his wages (which will mean they would only let him go for gaurenteed game time)

Obviously promotion transforms the picture and at this point we are probably a coin flip for promotion this season but we cannot count on it.

This is the background against which to judge Dowling's actions. To some extent everything at the moment is a short term fix.

I never understand the criticism of timing of deals particualrly in January. If you look at the deals on that are done the last week of the window they account for at least 50% of the deals that are done. There are several reasons for this but the not the least is it's just human nature.

Equally circumstances beyond the DoF's control dictate timing as much as anything that is under their control. Barnes went back to Leicester on 11th had he not I am fairly certain we would not have pursued Murphy.


Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on February 02, 2019, 09:30:21 AM
Have seen a few comments talking about “a club like ours can’t afford to plan for the future”, and “premier league players don’t want to come to the championship”. I think both are wrong and a bit “black and white”, binary thinking.

It isn’t about signing prem proven players. The skill is finding players who other clubs hadn’t yet realised were prem players.

If anyone follows horse racing, think about a time form racing card. Horses get a rating. That rating changes throughout their career. What you ideally want to back, is a horse with a slightly lower rating, but an up arrow next to their name. That horse is still untested at the top levels but it has room for improvement as it keeps stepping up in quality. It is a bit of an unknown, but if you pick the right untested ones, you can be very successful.

2013, Leicester. Danny Drinkwater, Riyad Mahrez, Jamie Vardy, Chris Wood, Jeffrey Schlupp, Kasper Schmeichel, Andy King and Wes Morgan all lined up in a promotion winning side. All of these players, up to this window, turned out to be “premier league players”. None of them were yet seen as “premier league players” at the time.

We haven’t had a bad January and in a short space of time, it is hard for Dowling to get it perfect. But, what we need to aspire to be doing, is what Leicester managed to do in 2013 and what we managed to do at the end of the last decade, finding the likes of Koren, Dawson, Mulumbu, Dorrans, Morrison, Brunt.

And on top of that, we need to get a clear view on our academy kids, and giving the, routes to develop (loan deals).

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albion79 on February 02, 2019, 11:01:07 AM
I think the club have been sensible with this window and the summer one in that they have made use of the major advantage we have this season over 21 other clubs in this league - we were newly relegated from the premier league.

Even with our cutbacks we still have a huge financial advantage, Swansea did too but they seem to be in all sorts of a bother, Stoke did and also have the backing of the Coates but fortunately for us they seemed to of made a mistake appointing Rowett and overpaying on very average players which the new manager is saddled with, so our way of doing things at the moment looks the right one.

We have this season to almost throw everything at getting promoted (which is all our owners will want) i dont imagine there is too much thought to 2 or 3 seasons time, we kept the bulk of the players we wanted and we have used our extra financial gain to bring in the likes of Holgate, Gayle, Murphy, etc all of whom will be on very good wages for championship football.

The loan market made sense for us for now, Dowling only joined in September, he will have a book of contacts from previous clubs but i suppose he has to see how Albion work, budgets, etc and put that in place, i dont think we will see the benefits of him until the summer but i do think he has negotiated us some good loan deals for our present situation.

Next season whether with us or not i expect that Holgate, Tosin, Dawson, Hegazi, Gibbs, Livermore, Phillips, Jrod, Gayle, Murphy will all be playing premier league football, some may go newly promoted clubs, others lower half to midtable clubs but the majority of those will be back in the premier league.

If we go up then i expect our own players will stay unless crazy offers come in, the good thing i think about the loans we have got is with the exception of Holgate (who i would assume Everton see his future with them, maybe Tosin at City too) all the other players we could sign if we wanted too, there will be deals to be done. Its not like when we had Lukaku on loan when we knew we werent going to be paying 20m for permanent, most of our loanees could be potential permanent signings, its a good solution in that we get to look at them, they get to look at us.

If we dont go up then thats where the academy players will step up as potentially we will lose upto 7-9 players as per above, the other loans such as Johansen and Montero will be up in the air in that we wont be paying probably £20-30k a week wages in the championship next season unless its for existing contracts. The likes of Mears, Myhill, possibly Morrison will be moved on (maybe Hoolahan) so potentially your looking at 10-12 players out our current squad realistically not being here next season, our budget will be very different next year with the parachute money dropping so thats why i would hope and assume Dowling is currently seeking bargains incase that scenario happens.

All clubs say it but the next 4-5 months are huge for our owners (as a fan i am not that arsed about getting promoted) because if we dont go up there will be a very different team next season, its now or never for this group of Albion players.

On paper if everyone is fit i would say our squad is too big now and i would like to of seen Leko, Edwards and Field go on loan, but included in the squad is Gayle, Phillips, Morrison and Montero all of whom have history of being injured a lot, plus i think between now and the end of the season there are only 5 weeks where we dont play midweek (maybe more if we beat Brighton in the cup as the Villa game will be moved) so the likes of Barry i think will struggle for 90 mins twice a week, plus we will pick up other injuries and suspensions as well as the more likely ones listed above so i think Dowling has played it well with our situation as it is now, we are taking advantage of our status as one of the leagues big boys this season whilst we can because next season it could be very different.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on February 02, 2019, 11:34:03 AM
I agree with a lot of what Albion 79 and Baggies have posted. This season is unique and given we are in the promotion mix the approach is entirely driven by the need to sustain that promotion push. I suspect had we bombed this season and were off the pace the process of breaking up the squad would have already started.

I have some sympathy with Baggies view on loaning out the youngsters and given they will have much more prominent roles next year if we don't get promoted some more game time would have greatly enhanced their readiness. I would add a caveat that not all loans are good for player development the what doesn't kill you makes you stronger school of development does not always work, picking the right destination for kids is important and if it isn't right then they are better staying at the club. 
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 02, 2019, 12:17:18 PM
It isn’t about signing prem proven players. The skill is finding players who other clubs hadn’t yet realised were prem players.
If anyone follows horse racing, think about a time form racing card. Horses get a rating. That rating changes throughout their career. What you ideally want to back, is a horse with a slightly lower rating, but an up arrow next to their name. That horse is still untested at the top levels but it has room for improvement as it keeps stepping up in quality. It is a bit of an unknown, but if you pick the right untested ones, you can be very successful.
2013, Leicester. Danny Drinkwater, Riyad Mahrez, Jamie Vardy, Chris Wood, Jeffrey Schlupp, Kasper Schmeichel, Andy King and Wes Morgan all lined up in a promotion winning side. All of these players, up to this window, turned out to be “premier league players”. None of them were yet seen as “premier league players” at the time.
You are sort of advocating the 'moneyball'  approach here I suspect and which is an approach or attitude of mind I personally have no problem with
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fourfourtwo-billy-beane-can-moneyball-analytics-approach-work-football
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on February 02, 2019, 12:31:44 PM
It won't hinder them if they are good enough.
our coaching staff seem to be very slow in giving our youngsters a.game in the league.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on February 02, 2019, 12:35:09 PM
Nope wrong.  Simply wrong.   Football has moved on, had you not noticed.

Job is to get in players to help us get promoted.   This guarantees money in the bank.  Then we build in the summer for the future.
tell that to Leeds, Norwich ang Sheffield United who are above us in league, majority of their squads are contracted to their clubs.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: overseas baggie on February 02, 2019, 12:48:48 PM
tell that to Leeds, Norwich ang Sheffield United who are above us in league, majority of their squads are contracted to their clubs.

But in their case they have been in the Championship for several years and don’t have parachute payments to use to try to ensure a swift return to the Premier League.  As soon as a club accepts that it’s not going up straight away and is going to have to do so without parachute payments then it needs to happen by building a squad from the bottom, ie the Academy and by buying players from Leagues 1 and 2, and by relying on good quality coaches like those 3 clubs to get the most out of those players.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Wigmore on February 28, 2019, 11:47:36 PM
Missing my point that all these loans hinder the development of our youngsters who are coming through the ranks
Exactly who is Holgate keeping out of the team?
And I hope you are not suggesting that the likes of Lecko should be installed in place of Daley Gayle.
You would have a stronger argument complaining about our own geriatrics cluttering up the squad and hindering our youth development
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 02, 2019, 05:40:13 PM
What on earth must Dowling be thinking when none of our recent captures gets to start in our most import game of the season?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BalisPen on May 15, 2019, 11:21:21 PM
I am putting up an official reward of 25p and Ron Atkinson spotters badge for anyone who can provide proof of life in relation to luke dowling.

He's like big foot, you see grainy pictures of him, but does he actually exist?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 16, 2019, 01:57:53 AM
What on earth must Dowling be thinking when none of our recent captures gets to start in our most import game of the season?


That he's an abject failure?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 16, 2019, 01:16:59 PM
He should be following Jenkins right out the door.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: cads_ap_albion on May 16, 2019, 01:45:43 PM
He should be following Jenkins right out the door.

Harsh given the mess he inherited.

In his first window where he had proper preparation time,  he bought in Holgate and Johansen, who both did well. Ultimately, if above him tell him loans only and we won't pay a million loan fee for Mings, what choice has he got?

Montero wasn't fit and Murphy has the ability but no bottle.

That isn't too bad given very limited budget constraints, which we had to take an overdraft for.

The manager saga is a different story - the board need both barrells. But again, if Jokanovic was lined up and the owner won't pay the money?? O'Neill walked away due to a lack of money reportedly.

We keep coming back to the same thing - no money thanks to Lai and Jenkins carrying out his instructions.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: alex1 on May 16, 2019, 03:56:30 PM
Surely Dowling had a major say in recruiting Gayle, Holgate, Johanson and Barnes? For which he should have alot of credit, assuming it was him.
But he does keep a very low profile. Directors of Football have different profiles from club to club. In this country everything tends to focus on the manager, whereas on the Continent some DoF's are in the media more often than the managers. 
I think though it is good PR for the club to communicate well with its fanbase exactly what their plans or vision is (if they've got one that is).
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BalisPen on May 16, 2019, 04:11:06 PM
Surely Dowling had a major say in recruiting Gayle, Holgate, Johanson and Barnes? For which he should have alot of credit, assuming it was him.
But he does keep a very low profile. Directors of Football have different profiles from club to club. In this country everything tends to focus on the manager, whereas on the Continent some DoF's are in the media more often than the managers. 
I think though it is good PR for the club to communicate well with its fanbase exactly what their plans or vision is (if they've got one that is).


He wasn't here when HB came in I think and the argument about Bryan Ovideio suggests it was the coaching staff dictating transfers.

Title: Re: Dowlings plan for the future
Post by: Barrington on May 17, 2019, 06:38:06 PM
Sounds like the usual drivel to be honest. I don't have much faith in them to make the changes we need them to. Brunt should have gone in my opinion, so that's a bad start already.

I'd love them to prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BalisPen on May 17, 2019, 06:41:20 PM
LD, or someone purporting to be him, has just been on the wm football phone in show and said that we paid loan fees for HB and DG.

Does this guy know what he is talking about, as it was reported we got DG and £2m and they got Rondon.

He said it will be a much different team at the start of next season and said mozza, Barry and myhill could still be retained by the new manager.

What was concerning was 100 points Reagan said the £16.5m from the rondon won't be spent on new players.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: cads_ap_albion on May 17, 2019, 06:56:27 PM
LD, or someone purporting to be him, has just been on the wm football phone in show and said that we paid loan fees for HB and DG.

Does this guy know what he is talking about, as it was reported we got DG and £2m and they got Rondon.

He said it will be a much different team at the start of next season and said mozza, Barry and myhill could still be retained by the new manager.

What was concerning was 100 points Reagan said the £16.5m from the rondon won't be spent on new players.

That's because we have £11m less in TV money.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: baggiejohn on May 17, 2019, 08:56:19 PM
LD, or someone purporting to be him, has just been on the wm football phone in show and said that we paid loan fees for HB and DG.

Does this guy know what he is talking about, as it was reported we got DG and £2m and they got Rondon.

He said it will be a much different team at the start of next season and said mozza, Barry and myhill could still be retained by the new manager.

What was concerning was 100 points Reagan said the £16.5m from the rondon won't be spent on new players.

Just listened to the podcast, & he did say that we'd paid loan fees for Harvey Barnes & Dwight Gale. As a Director of the football club, I'd say his version is right.
He didn't say it would be a much different team next season, he said it might be, & talked about 3 or 4 players leaving.
I suspect the strategy is to move on some of our high earners to make space for some additions.
Anything said by the presenters about Rondon & his transfer fee is pure speculation on their part IMO.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Mr Cynical on May 20, 2019, 10:48:40 AM
I think today's statement from Downing is misjudged... To choose to come out of the bunker and make this ‘don’t get your hopes up’ statement really misjudges the mood. (Especially with the sinister message around real peoples’ jobs.) Compounding it with ‘trust us’, after all the mismanagement of the last couple of years, just gets my heckles up. I didn't expect us to re-sign Gayle - at best I hoped he could be bundled into a deal for Rondon as a loan with us paying part of his wages.

Trust us - Like we have a choice!

We remember the last time we didn’t get promoted from the championship... We sold Davies, kamara, and koumas. Mowbray signed (including loans) 14 players including brunt, mozzer, bednar and miller... and we won the championship! We need to take a step back to come back stronger.  Our strength back then was Ashton and his eye for an emerging manager and a good player too.  I haven't seen anything yet to suggest Downing can pick a player or manager (despite opportunities).  We definitely couldn't last summer when Darren Moore was doing everything.

Earn trust.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SirTonyM on May 20, 2019, 02:14:49 PM
LD, or someone purporting to be him, has just been on the wm football phone in show and said that we paid loan fees for HB and DG.

Does this guy know what he is talking about, as it was reported we got DG and £2m and they got Rondon.

He said it will be a much different team at the start of next season and said mozza, Barry and myhill could still be retained by the new manager.

What was concerning was 100 points Reagan said the £16.5m from the rondon won't be spent on new players.

I’d assume the actual director of football would know if we paid loan fees more than fans reading articles or comments on twitter...
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: divinewind on May 20, 2019, 03:16:42 PM
I don't think a DOF works, i can't see how it can work.
If we want to go back to the premier league and actually compete, rather than getting 40 points and calling it a day, then we need a good experienced manager. Manager not coach.
The only people interested in working with our model though will be the novices like Moore, Shan etc.
No decent manager will put his reputation on the line with someone elses purchases.

A club with no ambition aimlessly drifting from season to season.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Oldbury24 on May 20, 2019, 03:36:29 PM
I don't think a DOF works, i can't see how it can work.
If we want to go back to the premier league and actually compete, rather than getting 40 points and calling it a day, then we need a good experienced manager. Manager not coach.
The only people interested in working with our model though will be the novices like Moore, Shan etc.
No decent manager will put his reputation on the line with someone elses purchases.

A club with no ambition aimlessly drifting from season to season.

System is irrelevant; quality of personnel is all.  I've seen too many terrible managers to count and I've seen some equally poor choices for head coach.   On the other hand we have recently had great success under SGM and Mowbray as manager.  Then Uncle Roy, RDM and Clarke who worked well under a DOF.   The idea of working under a DOF is that you install an ethos into the club that shapes your transfer policy and general style of football.  If the DOF is done well it allows you to avoids having a situation where a manager with a particular style fills the club with players of his liking who then struggle to adapt when that manager moves on........although i can't imagine that would happen to us.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: smethwickw on May 20, 2019, 04:02:13 PM
I think today's statement from Downing is misjudged... To choose to come out of the bunker and make this ‘don’t get your hopes up’ statement really misjudges the mood. (Especially with the sinister message around real peoples’ jobs.) Compounding it with ‘trust us’, after all the mismanagement of the last couple of years, just gets my heckles up. I didn't expect us to re-sign Gayle - at best I hoped he could be bundled into a deal for Rondon as a loan with us paying part of his wages.

Trust us - Like we have a choice!

We remember the last time we didn’t get promoted from the championship... We sold Davies, kamara, and koumas. Mowbray signed (including loans) 14 players including brunt, mozzer, bednar and miller... and we won the championship! We need to take a step back to come back stronger.  Our strength back then was Ashton and his eye for an emerging manager and a good player too.  I haven't seen anything yet to suggest Downing can pick a player or manager (despite opportunities).  We definitely couldn't last summer when Darren Moore was doing everything.

Earn trust.

Didn't Ashworth get the TD job later than this? I thought Simon Hunt was in charge during this period?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: AlbionFan on May 20, 2019, 06:17:05 PM
Regardless of what criticism fans aim at Dowling, at least he has put his head above the Parapet, unlike the owner and members of the board, fair does to him!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Adder on May 20, 2019, 06:51:27 PM
It's far too early to be negative about Dowling. He's had one window so far that being January which is always difficult and I think most of us were pleased with the business done...Holgate and Johansen were positives, Murphy has disappointed but it happens, you don't tend to get 100% success rates.

The following are encouraging statements...

'we are planning to go with a younger first-team squad' and talking about a team with added energy, hunger and freshness.

Our own emerging youngsters should be part of this and I don't think we can expect this full process to be completed this summer but hopefully we see some clear steps in the right direction.
 
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Smethwickender93 on May 22, 2019, 05:02:05 AM
Albion stopped in a hotel in Birmingham last Friday evening when we played Villa away. After the game, Albion’s head chef was sacked as Dowling wants to rebuild the club from top to bottom. Apparently this is just the beginning and is expecting a completely different team to what we had this season
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on May 22, 2019, 11:06:52 AM
Albion stopped in a hotel in Birmingham last Friday evening when we played Villa away. After the game, Albion’s head chef was sacked as Dowling wants to rebuild the club from top to bottom. Apparently this is just the beginning and is expecting a completely different team to what we had this season
got his priorities right I see stuff getting in a coach
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: AlbionFan on May 22, 2019, 04:05:25 PM
Albion stopped in a hotel in Birmingham last Friday evening when we played Villa away. After the game, Albion’s head chef was sacked as Dowling wants to rebuild the club from top to bottom. Apparently this is just the beginning and is expecting a completely different team to what we had this season

I understand Jamie Oliver is the leading candidate and is one of four being considered for the post  :D
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 22, 2019, 04:19:31 PM
I understand Jamie Oliver is the leading candidate and is one of four being considered for the post  :D
I prefer to see Nigella Lawson in the bath.  :P :o 8)
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: AlbionFan on May 22, 2019, 04:22:53 PM
I prefer to see Nigella Lawson in the bath.  :P :o 8)

You dirty old man!  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: gerry m on May 22, 2019, 04:32:59 PM
It's far too early to be negative about Dowling. He's had one window so far that being January which is always difficult and I think most of us were pleased with the business done...Holgate and Johansen were positives, Murphy has disappointed but it happens, you don't tend to get 100% success rates.

The following are encouraging statements...

'we are planning to go with a younger first-team squad' and talking about a team with added energy, hunger and freshness.

Our own emerging youngsters should be part of this and I don't think we can expect this full process to be completed this summer but hopefully we see some clear steps in the right direction.

'Holgate and Johansen were positives'

So was Dwight Gayle but apparently we cannot afford his wages!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Oldbury24 on May 22, 2019, 05:00:54 PM
'Holgate and Johansen were positives'

So was Dwight Gayle but apparently we cannot afford his wages!

Not even sure what point this is making? Gayle is one of the best finishers i have seen at the club, but we were only able to get him due to Raffa wanting Rondon.  It was obvious from the moment the final whistle went that he would be leaving due to his high wages, and there was no way he would be offered a contract. Dowling will not be setting the wage budgets, he will be given the budget and told to work within it. Just too risky. Sorry if i'm missing it.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: gerry m on May 22, 2019, 05:24:37 PM
Not even sure what point this is making? Gayle is one of the best finishers i have seen at the club, but we were only able to get him due to Raffa wanting Rondon.  It was obvious from the moment the final whistle went that he would be leaving due to his high wages, and there was no way he would be offered a contract. Dowling will not be setting the wage budgets, he will be given the budget and told to work within it. Just too risky. Sorry if i'm missing it.

Just my opinion mate. Sorry if it offended you.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: AlbionBest on May 22, 2019, 05:25:24 PM
About time our latest Director of Football earnt his money on the recruitment side ?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Oldbury24 on May 23, 2019, 04:03:32 PM
Just my opinion mate. Sorry if it offended you.

Didn't offend, just didn't get what the point was. Reading back the tone is a bit sharper than i intended. Whim probably just on the old crossed wires.  No worries.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: gerry m on May 24, 2019, 08:00:18 PM
Didn't offend, just didn't get what the point was. Reading back the tone is a bit sharper than i intended. Whim probably just on the old crossed wires.  No worries.

No worries Oldbury 24
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 25, 2019, 01:13:32 PM
Dowling made some very small time comments to Matt Wilson about Celtic FC. They have been very quick to release a statement calling us out.


Cannot take to this guy. His record is extremely underwhelming and he comes across as a pliant yes man.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Gilsey 56 on June 25, 2019, 08:58:26 PM
I think the work Luke Dowling has done so far, in one transfer window and appointing a manager we thought we could only dream of, is very encouraging.
If Hammond had still been their I dread to think who we would have got.
Celtic are welcome to him and hope Pardew's their next manager.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 25, 2019, 09:14:20 PM
I think the work Luke Dowling has done so far, in one transfer window and appointing a manager we thought we could only dream of, is very encouraging.
If Hammond had still been their I dread to think who we would have got.
Celtic are welcome to him and hope Pardew's their next manager.


It seems to me that Bilic chose us rather than the other way round. As for the January transfer window. It was very poor.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Gilsey 56 on June 25, 2019, 09:52:22 PM
 I'm sure most managers have the final say in who they go to but I'm pretty sure Dowling actually was involved and he has had only one transfer window, if you can call it that.
I would like to think we can give him a little longer before we can actually rate him fairly.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: alex1 on June 25, 2019, 11:47:01 PM
Whether it was Downing, or whoever it was, deserves alot of credit for identifying Gayle, Barnes, Holgate, Johansen, and then negotiating their loan deals.  I know Murphy and Montero didn't set the place alight, but on balance the loan players played a huge part in getting us to 4th. 
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: AlbionFan on June 26, 2019, 08:58:09 AM

It seems to me that Bilic chose us rather than the other way round. As for the January transfer window. It was very poor.

Let’s just say that Dowling was astute enough to have given Slaven the choice
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SmethDan on June 26, 2019, 11:05:16 AM
Whether it was Downing, or whoever it was, deserves alot of credit for identifying Gayle, Barnes, Holgate, Johansen, and then negotiating their loan deals.  I know Murphy and Montero didn't set the place alight, but on balance the loan players played a huge part in getting us to 4th.

Dwight Gayle, Harvey Barnes and Tosin Adarabioyo arrived prior to Dowling.

Mason Holgate, Stefan Johansen, Jacob Murphy and Jefferson Montero joined under his watch.

Some obvious successes but a mixed bag overall.

It's rare that any collection of signings all come off though.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on June 28, 2019, 04:27:27 PM
I agree with Jacko personally, I have been hugely underwhelmed by Dowling so far.

Firstly, he did not make the summer signings - it appears that was a joint effort between Moore (one of his strongest suites) and the scouting team.

Dowling has had 3 big moments at the club so far, the January transfer window, the Moore sacking and then the hiring of a manager this summer.

His January signings were a mixed bag. Holtgate was a good addition and a signing made very early which was good to see. After that though, we took the rest of the month, before finally rushing through 3 signings at the last hour, none of which I would really call successes. Johansson took a long time to break into the side and even when he did, he did not pull up trees. I’d say he made par but not much else. The signings of Montero and Murphy to replace Barnes were awful. To wait a whole month before doing that was just shocking.

Add to that, we also replicated our summer failure with regards to out goings, seeing Leko, Field and Edwards all stuck in the reserves for the majority of the 2nd half of the season despite it being obvious they should have gone out on loan THE SUMMER BEFORE.

Next up was the Moore sacking, handled very poorly, arguably made a game or two too early and then having the farce of failing to find a replacement, they got lucky that Shan was able to steady the ship and guide us to the brink of the play off final.

Finally, hiring a new manager. Despite the fact that we had 2 months without a full time manager before the season ended, Dowling still took another month or more to hire somebody, time that is valuable in preparing for the new season. We seemed to look at a number of different managers with different styles, which means we couldn’t possibly know which type of player we were going to be looking to sign. I understand the predicament we had with Wilder as he would have been the ideal man and I got the temptation with waiting for him, but it was a poor calculation really as he was never going to leave in the time frame we wanted.

We have ended up with Bilic. Lots of fans are happy and I get that he is an impressive speaker, but his club management record is very poor, with only a brief spell at West Ham where he looked ok (he was still sacked after running out of ideas eventually). He was also a very obvious name, which is a negative for me as I wanted some reassurance that Dowling can seek out and find some hidden gems that others cannot see.

Dowling’s latest comments, that should have been kept in house, are just another moment that make me feel that he doesn’t warrant my confidence. It is early days and he needs the summer to really prove himself, but our season ended 6 weeks ago and there are 6 weeks left until the transfer window closes. We have a huge rebuilding job on our hands, and yet we don’t seem close to signing anyone. Lots of other clubs are doing business early but we are slacking.

I hate to hark back to Ashworth (especially due to some of his poor judgement calls with England), but he got things done early. That is something that is supposed to be a big benefit of having a director of football (they are the specialist negotiator and they have more time in their hands to focus in doing deals, etc).
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Adder on June 28, 2019, 09:46:06 PM
While I agree Dowling should have moderated the comments about Burke, I think generally the views are a bit harsh. The jury is still out on him but he deserves time.

Regarding the January window, I would only class Montero as a poor signing due to his lack of Swansea game time and injury record.
Although he was big disappointment in the end, on the face of it at the time Murphy was a decent bet as an attempt to replace Barnes who was recalled on 11th Jan not leaving a huge amount of time to get someone else in. We should remember how difficult it is to bring people in in January with inflated prices etc. Murphy had experience of the Championship and a pretty decent track record in it.
Johansen turned out to be exactly the type of midfielder we've been lacking for 3 or 4 years. He obviously wasn't 100% match fit when signed, but the ones that are match fit are in their club's team and playing regularly so harder to pick up. Johansen was a good signing based on proven ability, especially in the Championship. Holgate was a good signing.
On the Moore sacking, we don't know who actually fired the bullet but it may have been nothing to do with Dowling. Anyway we were dreadful in the game against Ipswich and while it's difficult to know exactly how things would have gone it did look as though it would have been difficult for Moore to recover from that.
Also, maybe we have to forget the Ashworth era now. The game changes rapidly. All clubs now are faced with these log jams of waiting for offers for their own players before they have a clear picture of who needs to be replaced and what their budget is. We are in this very position now with the Rondon, J-Rod, Phillips Gibbs, Hegazi, Dawson situations. We can't replace them until they are actually gone and off the wage bill.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 29, 2019, 12:07:06 AM
While I agree Dowling should have moderated the comments about Burke, I think generally the views are a bit harsh. The jury is still out on him but he deserves time.

Regarding the January window, I would only class Montero as a poor signing due to his lack of Swansea game time and injury record.
Although he was big disappointment in the end, on the face of it at the time Murphy was a decent bet as an attempt to replace Barnes who was recalled on 11th Jan not leaving a huge amount of time to get someone else in. We should remember how difficult it is to bring people in in January with inflated prices etc. Murphy had experience of the Championship and a pretty decent track record in it.
Johansen turned out to be exactly the type of midfielder we've been lacking for 3 or 4 years. He obviously wasn't 100% match fit when signed, but the ones that are match fit are in their club's team and playing regularly so harder to pick up. Johansen was a good signing based on proven ability, especially in the Championship. Holgate was a good signing.
On the Moore sacking, we don't know who actually fired the bullet but it may have been nothing to do with Dowling. Anyway we were dreadful in the game against Ipswich and while it's difficult to know exactly how things would have gone it did look as though it would have been difficult for Moore to recover from that.
Also, maybe we have to forget the Ashworth era now. The game changes rapidly. All clubs now are faced with these log jams of waiting for offers for their own players before they have a clear picture of who needs to be replaced and what their budget is. We are in this very position now with the Rondon, J-Rod, Phillips Gibbs, Hegazi, Dawson situations. We can't replace them until they are actually gone and off the wage bill.


We have lost 10 players since the Villa game.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on June 29, 2019, 10:21:04 AM

We have lost 10 players since the Villa game.


And we have at least 6 loanees return. While we might not think these players have a future with us they still have contracts with the club and need either to be integrated into the first team group or moved on.

We are 4 net down and frankly we will barely miss many of those that left. Nyom who spent almost the whole season on loan for instance played more minutes than Montero.

This is an aside. I really don't care when we get players in. Often as not the club has little or no control over the timing of deals they are often influenced by external factors for instance the African Cup of Nations runs until 13th July we are very unlikely to know if Hegazi's release clause is going to be triggered until then or latter.

Bilic does need to run the rule over the players he has got again looking at Centre Back his view of O'Shea and Fitzwater will determine whether we need to recruit 1,2 or no Centre Backs. So is it reasonable to criticise Dowling for not dashing out and hiring a Centre Back?

Wherever we turn we are faced with similar issues. At the end of the window there has to be a squad that can be competitive and one that is compatible with the way that Bilic wants to play. At that point I think it is reasonable to criticise Dowling's work in the market. 
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on July 16, 2019, 04:06:11 PM
Unsure if anyone noticed Chris Lepkowski's twitter contribution a couple of days ago. In response to Matt Wilson's article about Bilic coming out publicly to say we need to get a move on, he said:

"Absolutely no surprise to read this. Dowling is a big problem. We are in danger of having another McDonough situation. Worse, decimating the academy - including ridiculous house rules to p*** off remaining staff - destroying goodwill, interfering with recruitment. Problems await.

Big issues. Academy staff marginalised, not allowed to use same entrance or canteen as first-team staff. Kids being told they're not important, crass language in front of visitors/agents/parents/female staff. I'm really not sure Dowling is the bloke we want as Tech Director

And I know people might say: 'Well it's only the academy'. But this permeates throughout. It isn't healthy. Forest couldn't wait to get rid of the bloke. Yet we took him on. Hope we know what we're doing.

Above all else, recall issues we had under McDonough. Needed a massive overhaul behind the scenes by absent owner. JP just about wrestled the club back onto the straight and narrow. Will Lai & his associates know any of this? Everything I hear about Dowling smacks of McDonough

If you are oly reading the Bilic bit then you're getting it wrong. If we don't resolve issue soon, then it doesn't matter who the boss is, we will keep picking up pieces. Bilic is a good appointment. If we p*** him off, we will p*** off his successors off too. Get it right now."


Interesting to note. I said on here in Jan/Feb I was uncomfortable with the early sings as his way or working was not how the best directors work. Can't see him lasting how things are going. He is making a complete mess. Awful appointment.


Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 16, 2019, 04:18:05 PM
Unsure if anyone noticed Chris Lepkowski's twitter contribution a couple of days ago. In response to Matt Wilson's article about Bilic coming out publicly to say we need to get a move on, he said:

"Absolutely no surprise to read this. Dowling is a big problem. We are in danger of having another McDonough situation. Worse, decimating the academy - including ridiculous house rules to p*** off remaining staff - destroying goodwill, interfering with recruitment. Problems await.

Big issues. Academy staff marginalised, not allowed to use same entrance or canteen as first-team staff. Kids being told they're not important, crass language in front of visitors/agents/parents/female staff. I'm really not sure Dowling is the bloke we want as Tech Director

And I know people might say: 'Well it's only the academy'. But this permeates throughout. It isn't healthy. Forest couldn't wait to get rid of the bloke. Yet we took him on. Hope we know what we're doing.

Above all else, recall issues we had under McDonough. Needed a massive overhaul behind the scenes by absent owner. JP just about wrestled the club back onto the straight and narrow. Will Lai & his associates know any of this? Everything I hear about Dowling smacks of McDonough

If you are oly reading the Bilic bit then you're getting it wrong. If we don't resolve issue soon, then it doesn't matter who the boss is, we will keep picking up pieces. Bilic is a good appointment. If we p*** him off, we will p*** off his successors off too. Get it right now."


Interesting to note. I said on here in Jan/Feb I was uncomfortable with the early sings as his way or working was not how the best directors work. Can't see him lasting how things are going. He is making a complete mess. Awful appointment.

Couple those comments with these from a knowledgabe poster on the E&S article - https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/07/15/award-winning-programme-editor-exits-west-brom/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/07/15/award-winning-programme-editor-exits-west-brom/)

Garth Pearce • a day ago • edited

The most despicable departure so far...for those who don't know, an Albion genius.
Dave Bowler has transformed our match day programme (launched in 1905 at a point when we were on the brink of going bust) in to the best in Britain. I have known about his shocking redundancy for some time and find it odd that the Express & Star has only just caught up with the fact.

Here is another piece of advance news: our new manager has already talked of quitting and taking his management team with him. Specific promises were made by the incompetent dolt of a 'Technical and Sporting Director' Luke Dowling, none of which were fulfilled. I thought Nicky Hammond was bad - which he was. But what is going on behind the scenes with this guy is beyond belief. His oafish behaviour, bad language towards parents of promising youngsters and rank stupidity in dealing with both agents and players makes me feel he needs help. He does not seem to remember what he's actually said from one day to the next. For those optimistic Baggies, oh how much I admire you. But any member of staff who cares about WBA and our fans, has knowledge of our history, shows initiative, works hard and has bags of talent, is treated as The Enemy.

There is one man who is linked to our appalling record of recruitment like Dowling. He's also the reason for many departures of top men and women. He's still sitting there as Chief Executive Officer. There is a malevolence like a cancer eating away at the heart of our beloved club and nothing is going to improve until it is urgently treated with invasive surgery. Either that, or it will kill West Bromwich Albion.


and this comment on a differnt article - https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/07/10/no-panicking-from-slaven-bilic-as-west-brom-look-to-rebuild-squad/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/07/10/no-panicking-from-slaven-bilic-as-west-brom-look-to-rebuild-squad/)


Garth Pearce Rondonsclass 6 days ago

All this would make perfect sense in a well-argued and upbeat case, Rondonclass, were it not for several key factors.

Our Sporting and Technical Director Luke Dowling rejected any attempt to pay the wages of our top goalscorer Dwight Gayle on the basis we needed to avoid staff redundancies. Yet redundancies are being prepared among staff at all levels, including those at the cherished Academy. You will be hearing of many in the coming weeks, some of which you know and are alarming and baffling.

We are owed £4.1 million in a secret loan taken by Jeremy Peace in 2014 and not paid back when he sold to Palm. That debt is owed by Palm. Mr Lai came up with the ludicrous excuse that he's not allowed to take money out of China. That is simply untrue. Nothing proves his total disinterest and scorn for WBA more than this statement.

We are replacing first-class Albion men with dross. Jimmy Shan (58% win rate - enough to guarantee automatic promotion) has been replaced by Julian Dicks. Mark Harrison defected to Villa because he could no longer work with our hopeless Chief Executive Mark Jenkins. Mike Scott, our brilliant under 18 coach was not approached to take over, so he's now left to take over the academy at Derby County. We have employed Paul Terry in charge of our loanees. Look up the suicide of young goalkeeper Dale Roberts at Rushden and Diamonds in 2010 and see who was named in the case. It's a matter of public record...Mr Terry should not be within 100 miles of The Hawthorns. But he's a friend of our clueless Luke Dowling.

We do, indeed, have an income of nearly £70 million (parachute and sales so far) for this upcoming season and a much slashed wage bill. Added to that, our advance season ticket sales, commercial income and sponsorship. Plus the £4.1 million on-going "loan." So where is the money going? The apologists currently owning and running our club are arguably the worst and most dangerous in our long and distinguished history. The group which own 88% of the club are Invisible Men. Those who are in charge at board level are, at best, disingenuous and have absolutely no long-term interest in West Bromwich Albion. We shareholders who own 12% of the club have been denied Annual General Meetings to ask questions, an alarming Chinese-like attempt to cover up facts. The AGM's at West Bromwich Albion go back to 1891.

I know what the Albion crowd are like...we all cling on to hope, including me. But we need to start fearing for our future before the inevitable crash happens. As for Mr Bilic, he won't put up with it.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SirTonyM on July 16, 2019, 04:53:36 PM
Couple those comments with these from a knowledgabe poster on the E&S article - https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/07/15/award-winning-programme-editor-exits-west-brom/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/07/15/award-winning-programme-editor-exits-west-brom/)

Garth Pearce • a day ago • edited

The most despicable departure so far...for those who don't know, an Albion genius.
Dave Bowler has transformed our match day programme (launched in 1905 at a point when we were on the brink of going bust) in to the best in Britain. I have known about his shocking redundancy for some time and find it odd that the Express & Star has only just caught up with the fact.

Here is another piece of advance news: our new manager has already talked of quitting and taking his management team with him. Specific promises were made by the incompetent dolt of a 'Technical and Sporting Director' Luke Dowling, none of which were fulfilled. I thought Nicky Hammond was bad - which he was. But what is going on behind the scenes with this guy is beyond belief. His oafish behaviour, bad language towards parents of promising youngsters and rank stupidity in dealing with both agents and players makes me feel he needs help. He does not seem to remember what he's actually said from one day to the next. For those optimistic Baggies, oh how much I admire you. But any member of staff who cares about WBA and our fans, has knowledge of our history, shows initiative, works hard and has bags of talent, is treated as The Enemy.

There is one man who is linked to our appalling record of recruitment like Dowling. He's also the reason for many departures of top men and women. He's still sitting there as Chief Executive Officer. There is a malevolence like a cancer eating away at the heart of our beloved club and nothing is going to improve until it is urgently treated with invasive surgery. Either that, or it will kill West Bromwich Albion.


and this comment on a differnt article - https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/07/10/no-panicking-from-slaven-bilic-as-west-brom-look-to-rebuild-squad/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/07/10/no-panicking-from-slaven-bilic-as-west-brom-look-to-rebuild-squad/)


Garth Pearce Rondonsclass 6 days ago

All this would make perfect sense in a well-argued and upbeat case, Rondonclass, were it not for several key factors.

Our Sporting and Technical Director Luke Dowling rejected any attempt to pay the wages of our top goalscorer Dwight Gayle on the basis we needed to avoid staff redundancies. Yet redundancies are being prepared among staff at all levels, including those at the cherished Academy. You will be hearing of many in the coming weeks, some of which you know and are alarming and baffling.

We are owed £4.1 million in a secret loan taken by Jeremy Peace in 2014 and not paid back when he sold to Palm. That debt is owed by Palm. Mr Lai came up with the ludicrous excuse that he's not allowed to take money out of China. That is simply untrue. Nothing proves his total disinterest and scorn for WBA more than this statement.

We are replacing first-class Albion men with dross. Jimmy Shan (58% win rate - enough to guarantee automatic promotion) has been replaced by Julian Dicks. Mark Harrison defected to Villa because he could no longer work with our hopeless Chief Executive Mark Jenkins. Mike Scott, our brilliant under 18 coach was not approached to take over, so he's now left to take over the academy at Derby County. We have employed Paul Terry in charge of our loanees. Look up the suicide of young goalkeeper Dale Roberts at Rushden and Diamonds in 2010 and see who was named in the case. It's a matter of public record...Mr Terry should not be within 100 miles of The Hawthorns. But he's a friend of our clueless Luke Dowling.

We do, indeed, have an income of nearly £70 million (parachute and sales so far) for this upcoming season and a much slashed wage bill. Added to that, our advance season ticket sales, commercial income and sponsorship. Plus the £4.1 million on-going "loan." So where is the money going? The apologists currently owning and running our club are arguably the worst and most dangerous in our long and distinguished history. The group which own 88% of the club are Invisible Men. Those who are in charge at board level are, at best, disingenuous and have absolutely no long-term interest in West Bromwich Albion. We shareholders who own 12% of the club have been denied Annual General Meetings to ask questions, an alarming Chinese-like attempt to cover up facts. The AGM's at West Bromwich Albion go back to 1891.

I know what the Albion crowd are like...we all cling on to hope, including me. But we need to start fearing for our future before the inevitable crash happens. As for Mr Bilic, he won't put up with it.


This is frightening. How do you get incompetent people out of the club? The Oystons are still at Blackpool and Ashley still owns Newcastle. Will Lai sell while Albion are stripping the assets and not buying (making a profit). I assume Jenkins hired Dowling so they are probably thick as thieves (thick being the key word).
All the optimism when Bilic was hired has evaporated. A long season of struggle awaits.
Jeremy Peace is also culpable for selling to Lai...
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SmethDan on July 16, 2019, 05:13:30 PM
There are more unsettling rumblings about our club than came from my belly the last time the wife cooked. I'm hoping for a more satisfactory outcome for Albion than was the case with our loo, but I have a genuine and worrying feeling the sh it's going to hit the fan shortly. If only we had a Director of Communications.......
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: timdon on July 16, 2019, 05:28:54 PM
Please someone tell me I'm being paranoid, but it is beginning to feel like we are being asset stripped. I guess the next three weeks will tell.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: tuamigos on July 16, 2019, 05:34:42 PM
Makes no sense at all to employ Team Bilic then not give him the tools to do the job
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Blowee on July 16, 2019, 05:41:23 PM
Makes no sense at all to employ Team Bilic then not give him the tools to do the job
sold a few extra season tickets, pulled in some extra TV cash as we have been selected for more games and kept the support quiet for a while. Even so, Bilic & co must have cost more than the revenue raised so yes - why not go for a cheaper option if we weren't planning to replace the squad that have left?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Aztech on July 16, 2019, 05:46:42 PM
This is frightening. How do you get incompetent people out of the club? The Oystons are still at Blackpool and Ashley still owns Newcastle. Will Lai sell while Albion are stripping the assets and not buying (making a profit). I assume Jenkins hired Dowling so they are probably thick as thieves (thick being the key word).
All the optimism when Bilic was hired has evaporated. A long season of struggle awaits.
Jeremy Peace is also culpable for selling to Lai...

I’m fairly certain the Oystons are no longer involved at Blackpool following years of backlash from the fans.

Unfortunately I can see us going the same way under Lai.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: gazberg on July 16, 2019, 05:56:56 PM
I dont think our fans can muster the energy to kickback against the board. Seem happy to eat whatever turd is thrown at them.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Adder on July 16, 2019, 06:08:31 PM
I can see why there's a lot of anxiety/anger but we don't know what irons are in the fire.

We may well be 3rd or 4th in the pecking order for some players we are allegedly interested in like Maupay. There's the question of do we give up on those and get lesser players in that we are more certain to get ?

There's obviously a limit to how long we can leave things which will be approaching pretty soon.
I'm firmly expecting 3 or 4 loans in the last week of the window but we need the same number of permanent signings preferably much earlier than that.

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: baggie82 on July 16, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
My current view of the DOF and board is unrepeatable in public. However I will reserve my judgement until the close of the transfer window. I have zero confidence in anyone with a say in how our club is run, Peace appears to have fled with all his cash and left us to wilter with a bunch of morons.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: WBArgo on July 16, 2019, 07:00:13 PM
Sadly I'm prone to believe what Lepkowski says. He's been around the club for years and hasn't really ever been one to publicly criticise a club employee like that. I know he has his opinions which is his job, but this seems more personal - and dare I say it the whole club scenario seems to fit into his tweets.

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Blowee on July 16, 2019, 07:34:49 PM
Team for the first game could include:

Mr Lai (Centre forward)
Mr Jenkins (Centre of defence)
and our DoF
Mr Dowling in Mid-field!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggie79 on July 16, 2019, 07:39:16 PM
Team for the first game could include:

Mr Lai (Centre forward)
Mr Jenkins (Centre of defence)
and our DoF
Mr Dowling in Mid-field!

Three best paid players in the league.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 16, 2019, 08:05:57 PM
Three best paid players in the league.
Should all have been put out to grass a year ago plus.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: hardtobeat on July 16, 2019, 08:22:21 PM
Another one gone out the door , Palmer to Plymouth for the season ,that's another wage gone so get her finger out Dowling !!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Gilsey 56 on July 16, 2019, 09:19:55 PM
How many times have you heard a club say "we won't sell until a replacement is found" well we've almost emptied the cupboard.
I can't believe we have to wait for the Rondon sale to start the recruitment.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 16, 2019, 09:22:40 PM
If they don't get on this bleeding soon I'm done.

I effing hate suits.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 16, 2019, 09:30:58 PM
sold a few extra season tickets, pulled in some extra TV cash as we have been selected for more games and kept the support quiet for a while. Even so, Bilic & co must have cost more than the revenue raised so yes - why not go for a cheaper option if we weren't planning to replace the squad that have left?
Wouldn’t cover his / teams wages or settlement fee,the club would also be aware of how the club would then look

Have to say it’s v hard to find anything that Chris L says positive since he no longer worked for WBA ...coincidence ?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Dan87uk on July 17, 2019, 08:22:02 AM
Another one gone out the door , Palmer to Plymouth for the season ,that's another wage gone so get her finger out Dowling !!

Palmer was never getting into the first team - a loan suits him perfectly. If anything everyone would be moaning we'd not moved him out on loan to develop if we didn't send him somewhere
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: tuamigos on July 17, 2019, 08:26:45 AM
Another one gone out the door , Palmer to Plymouth for the season ,that's another wage gone so get her finger out Dowling !!

I'd imagine we will bring a more experienced keeper to cover for him
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Mister AT on July 17, 2019, 08:35:00 AM
I'd imagine we will bring a more experienced keeper to cover for him

I hope not. Hopefully the club are clever enough to put a recall clause in Palmer's deal.

Never understood the need for 3 experienced keepers, I would be happy for us to run with Johnstone, Bond and promote the under 23's keeper in to get some experience, which I believe is Brad House now?

Back on topic of the DoF, does anyone else think Dowling is limited to what he can and cant do in terms of business with his boss being Jenkins? Or do we all think he is as much to blame as Jenkins?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: hardtobeat on July 17, 2019, 08:43:50 AM
The bean counter (Jenkins) may well have the final say but surely the DOF has a lot of input into footballing matters it is what he is employed for allegedly !!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Mister AT on July 17, 2019, 09:12:38 AM
The bean counter (Jenkins) may well have the final say but surely the DOF has a lot of input into footballing matters it is what he is employed for allegedly !!

But does Dowling have his hands tied with what he can and can't do? We all know that Jenkins isn't the easiest person to work with, Dowling could be identifying targets but being told no or that we need to wait for other things to happen.

Obviously just trying to look at from a different angle. I struggle to think that anyone would get into that role and be 'rubbish' on purpose. Dowling could be speaking to Bilic's targets and getting so far and when it comes to the 'go ahead' from the top its being delayed for whatever reason....

One thing I do know though, this club is close to being in a BIG mess.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: seteefeet on July 17, 2019, 09:46:39 AM
I hope not. Hopefully the club are clever enough to put a recall clause in Palmer's deal.

Never understood the need for 3 experienced keepers, I would be happy for us to run with Johnstone, Bond and promote the under 23's keeper in to get some experience, which I believe is Brad House now?

Back on topic of the DoF, does anyone else think Dowling is limited to what he can and cant do in terms of business with his boss being Jenkins? Or do we all think he is as much to blame as Jenkins?
We all know Jenkins is nothing more than an accountant, who knows nothing about football and Dowling is just his Igor, doing his bidding, with a servile "yeeees  maaaster"
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on July 18, 2019, 06:07:12 PM
I think Jenkins is the wrong man to be the CEO, but I wouldn't use that as an excuse for Dowling's failings.

Jenkins never blocked Ashworth when his team were finding the free transfers like Jerome Thomas, Claudio Yacob, Gareth Macaulay, Billy Jones, Zoltan Gera, Craig Gardner, Steven Reid, Pablo Ibanez, Giles Barnes, Keith Andrews, Reuben Reid, Marcus Haber, Markus Rosenborg and Andwele Slory.

He also didn't have a problem with the budget signings of Dorrans, Mulumbu, Dawson etc.

If your only ideas are loans and the  over priced English based players, then yeah, theycare harder to get over the line.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: alex1 on July 18, 2019, 06:22:20 PM
I think Jenkins is the wrong man to be the CEO, but I wouldn't use that as an excuse for Dowling's failings.

Jenkins never blocked Ashworth when his team were finding the free transfers like Jerome Thomas, Claudio Yacob, Gareth Macaulay, Billy Jones, Zoltan Gera, Craig Gardner, Steven Reid, Pablo Ibanez, Giles Barnes, Keith Andrews, Reuben Reid, Marcus Haber, Markus Rosenborg and Andwele Slory.

He also didn't have a problem with the budget signings of Dorrans, Mulumbu, Dawson etc.

If your only ideas are loans and the  over priced English based players, then yeah, theycare harder to get over the line.

I hope too that Dowling is looking around the European market. There is alot of Championship level quality out there, but crucially below the asking price in the English leagues (even with a poor pound exchange rate). I wonder what our scouting network is like.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on July 18, 2019, 07:30:29 PM
From the outside looking in Jenkins and Dowling look like blithering idiots who haven't got a pair between them.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Oldbury24 on July 19, 2019, 12:44:58 PM
Give the bloke a chance, good lord. If we're still threadbare after the deadline goes by I'd be very surprised, were trying to rebuild a squad with younger permanent players on a small budget, it's not an easy task and getting the right people will take longer than getting people clubs cant wait to be shot of.

Zohore just signed up, Ajayi's supposedly on his way (which could potentially be the bargain of the season if he performs as he can) and other irons in the fire that we both know and dont know about, were clearly going to bring younger bodies in with a long term vision. In Ashworth style, some will pay off and some wont, but that's what we want to get ourselves back to.

 I can understand it's frustrating but have faith and judge the window when its closed.

The same day(ish) Rondon goes out the door, we have a new striker come through the door like for like(ish).  Can't say fairer than that?  Much work for Dowling to do though, MUCH work.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Mister AT on July 22, 2019, 07:15:28 PM
Get his fair share of critics but if he manages to use the Rondon money and signs

Zohore
Ajayi
Furlong
Sawyers


Then he does a pat on the back. Said it before but I don’t actually see Dowling as being the problem at times, think he’s fairly limited in what he can and can’t do with Jenkins involved.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 22, 2019, 07:34:30 PM
Get his fair share of critics but if he manages to use the Rondon money and signs

Zohore
Ajayi
Furlong
Sawyers


Then he does a pat on the back. Said it before but I don’t actually see Dowling as being the problem at times, think he’s fairly limited in what he can and can’t do with Jenkins involved.


Few people on twitter saying Zohore and Furlong are Dowling driven signings and Bilic isn't particulalrly enamoured with them. Sawyers presumably would be the same as he was on the radar last season.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: cads_ap_albion on July 22, 2019, 07:52:32 PM

Few people on twitter saying Zohore and Furlong are Dowling driven signings and Bilic isn't particulalrly enamoured with them. Sawyers presumably would be the same as he was on the radar last season.

Who is saying this on twitter?

I find it hard to believe, as Bilic gets the final say. I would be surprised if Bilic allowed this. He has already spoken out once about lack of signings a week ago, surely he would speak out about this?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Mister AT on July 22, 2019, 07:55:19 PM

Few people on twitter saying Zohore and Furlong are Dowling driven signings and Bilic isn't particulalrly enamoured with them. Sawyers presumably would be the same as he was on the radar last season.

Thought it was common knowledge that the club have a list of targets but ultimately Bilic has the final say on if we sign them?

Sawyers is a prime example of someone the club looked at last year but wasn’t an affordable deal, now it is, but I’m sure the club won’t do the deal if Bilic says no.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 22, 2019, 07:58:48 PM
Thought it was common knowledge that the club have a list of targets but ultimately Bilic has the final say on if we sign them?

Sawyers is a prime example of someone the club looked at last year but wasn’t an affordable deal, now it is, but I’m sure the club won’t do the deal if Bilic says no.


If you believe what you read Bilić has his own list, with Krovinović (done) and Pereira (not done) and others. The suggestion is Bilić is frustrated with the lack of headway made on his list.


Could be ******** but thought it worth relaying.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: lewisant on July 22, 2019, 08:07:53 PM
There seems to be a bunch of people on twitter with a massive axe to grind against anything at Albion. Been using twitter a bit more lately with the board going down a few times and it's a pretty volatile place to say the least.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on July 22, 2019, 08:08:27 PM

If you believe what you read Bilić has his own list, with Krovinović (done) and Pereira (not done) and others. The suggestion is Bilić is frustrated with the lack of headway made on his list.


Could be ******** but thought it worth relaying.
sounds like something Albion board would do.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: alex1 on July 22, 2019, 08:12:18 PM

If you believe what you read Bilić has his own list, with Krovinović (done) and Pereira (not done) and others. The suggestion is Bilić is frustrated with the lack of headway made on his list.


Could be ******** but thought it worth relaying.
Would be surprised if there were 2 separate lists of transfer targets. I thought it was clear anyway that Billic would have a veto on any new signing. That's what Dowling seemed to say at the first press conference.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 22, 2019, 08:19:16 PM
Would be surprised if there were 2 separate lists of transfer targets. I thought it was clear anyway that Billic would have a veto on any new signing. That's what Dowling seemed to say at the first press conference.


Said similar with Moore, loads of rumours speculated he and Jones didn't want Montero or Johansen, but we got them anyway.


Not two physical lists clearly but Bilić has added people he is aware of to a list, that's obvious with the Krovinović signing and Pereira link. The speculation is the club aren't prioritising Bilić names.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Mister AT on July 22, 2019, 08:25:33 PM
There seems to be a bunch of people on twitter with a massive axe to grind against anything at Albion. Been using twitter a bit more lately with the board going down a few times and it's a pretty volatile place to say the least.

It’s very pathetic at times. Some fans literally have the time to sit there and make up fake accounts pretending to be Percy or Matt Wilson and tweet that we have signed Gayle or similar players.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: glosterbaggie on July 22, 2019, 08:56:52 PM

Said similar with Moore, loads of rumours speculated he and Jones didn't want Montero or Johansen, but we got them anyway.


Not two physical lists clearly but Bilić has added people he is aware of to a list, that's obvious with the Krovinović signing and Pereira link. The speculation is the club aren't prioritising Bilić names.
Yet Krovinović was first in?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Wigmore on July 22, 2019, 09:05:15 PM

Few people on twitter saying Zohore and Furlong are Dowling driven signings and Bilic isn't particulalrly enamoured with them. Sawyers presumably would be the same as he was on the radar last season.
And is there one shred of evidence that SB doesn't want them?

So sad that the internet allows the lunatic fringe such license to spread agendas and conspiracy theories.

I thought it was fairly clear when SB arrived that he would have the final say over (incoming) transfers.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: timdon on July 22, 2019, 09:23:49 PM
And is there one shred of evidence that SB doesn't want them?

So sad that the internet allows the lunatic fringe such license to spread agendas and conspiracy theories.

I thought it was fairly clear when SB arrived that he would have the final say over (incoming) transfers.
Nope, But that doesn't seem to bother some.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on July 23, 2019, 01:25:00 AM
This is one of the most tiresome and recurring themes in English football in general and in particular at the Albion. So let's see we like Bilic but we don't like the man who hired him Dowling. Let me guess the "good" transfers are Bilic transfers and the "bad" ones are Dowling ones. Mid way through the season if the "bad" transfers turn out to be good then they will become Bilic transfers and if the "good" ones turn out bad then they will become Dowling ones.

Let's be clear about this Head Coaches don't bring a penny with them to the club it is the club's money those that control the budget control the recruitment process.  No doubt the Head Coach will have an input but ultimately it is the job of the Director of Football to manage and control the recruitment process from scouting through to ultimately sanctioning contracts etc.. 
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: skyclad99 on July 23, 2019, 08:32:25 AM
I cannot see for one second that if any of the signings were not agreed by Bilic, he would be staying quiet.

Some people just like to stir it up. Until there is any evidence then this is just a load of rubbish. I for one am quite enjoying the positive recruitment drive. Not sure if it is too early yet but I think Dowling may be getting some credit coming his way........
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: AlbionFan on July 23, 2019, 08:55:48 AM
Like I have written in another thread, I believe that Dowling and Pearce deserve some credit for the players that we have bought in so far and look likely to recruit in the next week or so.

They have completely changed the recruitment model, which doesn’t come without risk. They have tried to recruit young round pegs for round holes at very competitive fees when comparing to current market prices. And yes, there is a risk with the type of recruitments we have and will make, but there is a risk with any new player you bring in regardless of the fee, Brown Ideye (£10m ?) for one springs to mind.

It also appears that Bilić, Dowling and Pearce are on the same wave length and are working well together, let’s hope this continues for along time to come.

So, well done to all, not least for the direction you are taking the club and the recruits you have bought in so far, they all look promising additions to the squad and are better than we had as the squad was threadbare.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: seteefeet on July 23, 2019, 12:38:46 PM
Like I have written in another thread, I believe that Dowling and Pearce deserve some credit for the players that we have bought in so far and look likely to recruit in the next week or so.

They have completely changed the recruitment model, which doesn’t come without risk. They have tried to recruit young round pegs for round holes at very competitive fees when comparing to current market prices. And yes, there is a risk with the type of recruitments we have and will make, but there is a risk with any new player you bring in regardless of the fee, Brown Ideye (£10m ?) for one springs to mind.

It also appears that Bilić, Dowling and Pearce are on the same wave length and are working well together, let’s hope this continues for along time to come.

So, well done to all, not least for the direction you are taking the club and the recruits you have bought in so far, they all look promising additions to the squad and are better than we had as the squad was threadbare.
Have to agree. I've been very critical of Jenkins and Dowling following the Moore sacking debacle but,  I too like the way we are going about recruitment, filling obvious gaps with younger players.
There won't be two lists, there will be one that pre-existed before Bilic was appointed, which he would surely have had full visibility of, and may have even crossed names off, then a list of names that he has added himself.
Whether they are good or bad, only time will tell, either way the plaudits or responsibility will have to be shared.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: kanu on July 23, 2019, 06:27:29 PM
It’s quite simply that we’ve come to our senses and gone back to the basics that served us so well from around 2001.
We are targeting young, up and coming players with little time left on their contracts and getting them in for very affordable prices. We’re cherry picking lesser clubs best players (lesser in their current financial clout not referring to their stature).
The manager is then offered these players and if he absolutely doesn’t rate them we don’t proceed, if he likes what he’s shown and says ‘thanks guys, hadn’t even heard of him but I’ve read his stats and he’s quick, hard tackling and likes to get up the wing to support the attack and has a good cross on him, plus I’m after a right back, so yes please I’ll take him because I’m too busy on the training ground to learn about every player in our price range and thanks for taking the pressure of my already over stacked workload’.
If he then turns round and says ‘well thanks but I’m not a fan of this particular player but I do know of a sensational skilful, quick little midfielder who can play in the no.10 role that I’d like to deploy this year, and he happens to be from my home country, oh and Norwich from the premier league want him but if you let me speak to him I feel I could convince him to drop a division and play for me’...then I’d imagine Dowling & Jenkins would say ‘oh that’s brill Slav, go for it, after all we don’t of every little foreign gem there is out there, thank you for your suggestion ‘.
It’s teamwork, it’s trust, it’s buying younger players with sell on values and it’s helping the future and stability of our club. So give both sides their credit and be happy that for the first time since Hodgson’s days that they’re all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: wbawill on July 30, 2019, 07:04:26 PM
Academy goalkeeping coach Mark Naylor has handed his notice in, after 20 years at the club. 5th senior member of the academy coaching staff to leave recently. Obviously as supporters we don't know the reason why but it's clear to see that something isn't right at the club, and that sort of thing usually stems from senior management at any business. Hopefully they know what needs fixing, and fix it soon.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SirTonyM on July 30, 2019, 07:10:05 PM
Academy goalkeeping coach Mark Naylor has handed his notice in, after 20 years at the club. 5th senior member of the academy coaching staff to leave recently. Obviously as supporters we don't know the reason why but it's clear to see that something isn't right at the club, and that sort of thing usually stems from senior management at any business. Hopefully they know what needs fixing, and fix it soon.

Something is not right behind the scenes. The biggest concern is the academy was and is producing players. If it was struggling then an overhaul is wise but this seems to me like there a big problems.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Chipperfan on July 30, 2019, 07:13:16 PM
Something is not right behind the scenes. The biggest concern is the academy was and is producing players. If it was struggling then an overhaul is wise but this seems to me like there a big problems.

From here it looks like the club is in disarray. Bilic is a great coach and could be the saviour in the short term but if these fools are dismantling things behind the scenes then the situation is not good.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SirTonyM on July 30, 2019, 08:02:04 PM
"We won't re-sign Gayle as we don't want staff at the club to lose their jobs"....Cue a mass exodus of our whole academy staff :(
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: lewisant on July 30, 2019, 08:27:06 PM
"We won't re-sign Gayle as we don't want staff at the club to lose their jobs"....Cue a mass exodus of our whole academy staff :(

Is it all forgivable then if we sign Gayle*

*Hypothetical question there, i'm not one clinging on to Gayle chances!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on July 30, 2019, 08:39:39 PM
Steve Hopcroft remains as head of academy recruitment for now, but in twitter he himself retweeted a very revealing tweet a few days ago questioning why so many academy coaches are leaving and for me, revealing his own feelings.

No opinions personally in the shake up of splitting 1st team players from academies (they earn too much as it is), but allienating successful academy coaches and bringing in dodgy mates like Terry is not something I want a good tech director to do.

I've made my feelings about Dowling clear in here and I can't see them changing now.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SirTonyM on July 30, 2019, 08:45:47 PM
Is it all forgivable then if we sign Gayle*

*Hypothetical question there, i'm not one clinging on to Gayle chances!

Not at all, don't think we will sign Gayle. It's just what is said from the top and what actually seems to happen don't line up...Whats going on with the academy won't be re-built overnight.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on July 31, 2019, 09:28:42 AM
Need a striker ASAP that's one of Dowlings priorities and he needs to get it done. With regards to academy looks like its in a right mess with staff jumping ship, Jenkins needs to sort this out.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: seteefeet on July 31, 2019, 09:59:26 AM
Due to the mockery of a system, which allows bigger clubs to pretty much cherry pick our academy prospects, for next to nothing, it may be that we are reducing our funding of it and that's triggered the exodus..
With most academy players not making it at all, the best being poached and a percentage going to lower leagues, the amount that will actually play for us, or make a profit on, is probably very low.
Would be a crying shame if true but sort of understandable, especially if you are run by an accountant.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albionic on July 31, 2019, 11:58:54 AM
Due to the mockery of a system, which allows bigger clubs to pretty much cherry pick our academy prospects, for next to nothing, it may be that we are reducing our funding of it and that's triggered the exodus..
With most academy players not making it at all, the best being poached and a percentage going to lower leagues, the amount that will actually play for us, or make a profit on, is probably very low.
Would be a crying shame if true but sort of understandable, especially if you are run by an accountant.

i suspect you have nailed it, the club may see a more sustainable model being the poacher rather than the poached. As so many have said, blame the system not the club !
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on July 31, 2019, 09:18:29 PM
Steve Hopcroft has just retweeted a bbc article about how our academy has helped us after relegation.

It's something you would expect an academy man to retweet, until you realise it is from April....

Why remind everyone now?

Something isn't right.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Westie on July 31, 2019, 09:51:23 PM
The club is owned by a ghastly little man and the day to day management is handled by another horrible bloke; would you like to work for two people like that? That’s why people change their employment. Lai is the root of all evil at WBA. If Lai were to go a new owner would probably sack Jenkins........

LAI OUT (that’s me being polite, it should be LAI followed by two words).
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Dexy on July 31, 2019, 09:55:21 PM
Steve Hopcroft has just retweeted a bbc article about how our academy has helped us after relegation.

It's something you would expect an academy man to retweet, until you realise it is from April....

Why remind everyone now?

Something isn't right.
Can't help but fear Hopcroft will be next , personally think its time for some words from Dowling and co over this academy staff issue.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SirTonyM on July 31, 2019, 11:52:09 PM
Can't help but fear Hopcroft will be next , personally think its time for some words from Dowling and co over this academy staff issue.

Dowling was only in his job at Forest for 7 months. Does make you wonder :(
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SmethDan on August 02, 2019, 12:53:38 PM
Can't help but fear Hopcroft will be next , personally think its time for some words from Dowling and co over this academy staff issue.

And if Mr Dowling's busy how's about a syllable or two from our designated 'Director of Communications' ? I've often wondered exactly what it is it is he communicates, how he does it (smoke signals or carrier pigeon?) and to whom.

https://www.wba.co.uk/club/board-of-directors/martin-swain/
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: FallOutBoy on August 02, 2019, 01:26:26 PM
Dowling was only in his job at Forest for 7 months. Does make you wonder :(

And was about to get sacked when we paid a release fee to get him  ::)
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BalisPen on August 02, 2019, 03:44:03 PM
i suspect you have nailed it, the club may see a more sustainable model being the poacher rather than the poached. As so many have said, blame the system not the club !

It would be disappointing, but if we did just look for young players elsewhere and scrap the youth system no one could blame us after the latest "theft" of our talent.

Maybe, if we'd done that when we were heavily linked with McGuire and Robertson, we'd have been better off.

I know it's allowed under Fifa rules, but I just don't know why our football authorities here allowed the stupid £200k compo rule, as in the long term it will discourage more clubs from having youth teams (like Brentford don't) and the English players who have to travel further may not have willing parents prepared to travel etc, etc, and they are lost to the game and potentially the England team.

At least what Man city are paying is better that the paltry £200k.

Personally, I think the rule should be much more draconian, in that yoy want our youth player, then it's £10m and a 50% sell on clause. That would stop the likes of Chelsea stockpiling them.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: johnny Cash on August 02, 2019, 04:01:16 PM

Personally, I think the rule should be much more draconian, in that yoy want our youth player, then it's £10m and a 50% sell on clause. That would stop the likes of Chelsea stockpiling them.


Unfortunately its not a simple as just changing the rules. Although the FA / Premier league / EPL can govern themselves to some extent, and the clubs could agree a higher limit, it now seems an international problem and would need Fifa to do it. Fifa are never going to set such high limits universally as there are still many leagues where those numbers would be idiotic. Its likely the bigger european clubs would resent it too, and are more likely to have big sway to lobby with Fifa.

Beyond what the football bodies can do, there also wider law. If the FA set it at £10m, i think it would be overturned by a higher power.

A young 15 year old who has never signed a contract would certainly have a strong case at law for a 10m amount placing too high a barrier to their ability to make their own choices about who they sign a contract with.

It does need to be higher than it is though, and they should set mandatory sell on percentages.   
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: baggie96 on August 03, 2019, 12:25:00 AM
We have a major attitude problem in our academy, look at some of the players that have come through our academy (berahino, Brown, Sinclair etc). If downling is trying to fix that then I’m fine with that. If some of the staff don’t like it then so be it.

Shans gone as he wants to manage. Harrison’s gone to a bigger club (as much as I hate to say). Mike Scott’s gone because we didn’t offer him Harrison’s role. Mark naylor is a miss, however how many goallys have come through in the last ten years? We can’t go off the Dan ashworth model forever.

Speaks volumes for me that someone as respected as Darren fletcher was shocked at how close the youth players were to the first team, surely that should be earnt? As much as I love the fact you could have locals lads coming through and earning the club money, surely it is easier to make money off player trading. I’m not fussed if the academy closes down, I’d rather invest the £3mill/season in youngsters from the lower leagues as I think there would be a lot more return for the money that way. Of course that’s my opinion and we do have a few academy players in the first team, but realistically who’s going to feature much this season? Probably harper, maybe Edwards. Is that really worth it?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on August 03, 2019, 07:25:23 AM
Come on Dowling get your finger out, Slav wants a minimum of three players in the door this week.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: mulliganstired on August 03, 2019, 07:46:46 AM
Unfortunately its not a simple as just changing the rules. Although the FA / Premier league / EPL can govern themselves to some extent, and the clubs could agree a higher limit, it now seems an international problem and would need Fifa to do it. Fifa are never going to set such high limits universally as there are still many leagues where those numbers would be idiotic. Its likely the bigger european clubs would resent it too, and are more likely to have big sway to lobby with Fifa.

Beyond what the football bodies can do, there also wider law. If the FA set it at £10m, i think it would be overturned by a higher power.

A young 15 year old who has never signed a contract would certainly have a strong case at law for a 10m amount placing too high a barrier to their ability to make their own choices about who they sign a contract with.

It does need to be higher than it is though, and they should set mandatory sell on percentages.
Yes, decent rules requiring sell on percentages would sort it.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 08, 2019, 05:51:00 PM
Very well done, Mr Dowling and team. Given the financial constraints imposed by Messrs Lai, and Jenkins, you have done a very good job of overhauling our squad, and I look forward very much to seeing Albion play a completely new brand of football to that which we have seen in recent seasons.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albionic on August 08, 2019, 05:52:39 PM
Very well done, Mr Dowling and team. Given the financial constraints imposed by Messrs Lai, and Jenkins, you have done a very good job of overhauling our squad, and I look forward very much to seeing Albion play a completely new brand of football to that which we have seen in recent seasons.

Here here, looks like the best window for a VERY  long time
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: don1thedon on August 08, 2019, 05:53:56 PM
Very well done, Mr Dowling and team. Given the financial constraints imposed by Messrs Lai, and Jenkins, you have done a very good job of overhauling our squad, and I look forward very much to seeing Albion play a completely new brand of football to that which we have seen in recent seasons.
Yes '68 gotta agree, plenty to be positive about for sure. It's been a good window for us, all down to Slav to get the boys delivering now!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: gazberg on August 08, 2019, 05:56:27 PM
Yep credit where it is due, a good window overall. I fancy us for te automatics possibly.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: alex1 on August 08, 2019, 05:56:50 PM
Very well done, Mr Dowling and team. Given the financial constraints imposed by Messrs Lai, and Jenkins, you have done a very good job of overhauling our squad, and I look forward very much to seeing Albion play a completely new brand of football to that which we have seen in recent seasons.
I'll second that. At face value looks a very competitive squad with no outrageous expense. I think Dowling was honest about Gayle, and did actually try to secure him a second time, but hopefully with Austin he has found another regular goalscorer.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: lewisant on August 08, 2019, 05:59:10 PM
Tip of the hat to Dowling there, very well done.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: timdon on August 08, 2019, 05:59:57 PM
Was always going to be a very difficult job replacing all the players who have left, getting some pace into the squad, and getting in a group of much younger players. I was settled in my head that doing all this would take 2 or 3 transfer windows, and was settling down for a mid table performance this season. But fair play, we have made an extremely good job at trying to do it all in one go, and Dowling needs to be given a large chunk of the credit (remembering bringing in Bilic as well).
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: skyclad99 on August 08, 2019, 06:00:10 PM
Plenty of humble pie here if anyone wants a slice  ;D

Well done to Jenkins, Dowling and all concerned. That is showing real intend.

Cannot wait for Saturday now!!!

COYB!!!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: miggybaggy on August 08, 2019, 06:02:00 PM
Very well done, Mr Dowling and team. Given the financial constraints imposed by Messrs Lai, and Jenkins, you have done a very good job of overhauling our squad, and I look forward very much to seeing Albion play a completely new brand of football to that which we have seen in recent seasons.

Spot on! I cant wait to spend more time standing up than sitting down....come on you baggies!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: KYA on August 08, 2019, 06:02:10 PM
I was worried knowing the team rebuilding required this summer but fair play to those who have put this squad together cracking job now let's rip into this league!
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Barrington on August 08, 2019, 06:08:24 PM
They've done a lot better business than I thought they would this window. Fair play. Particularly happy with Charlie Austin and Sawyers. Well done.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Mister AT on August 08, 2019, 06:22:11 PM
We as fans are quick enough to slate them when it goes wrong, so only fair we praise them when they do a good job.

Solid window, reduced the age of the squad, brought in some much needed athletes, pace, quality all across the pitch.

Good job Dowling.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: caravanc58 on August 08, 2019, 06:28:14 PM
think we've been very shrewd this summer, to transform the squad with young exciting players and do it on budget is a job well done. well done to all involved in making this happen, it has the potential to be a very exciting season.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Mister AT on August 08, 2019, 06:31:40 PM
Time to rebuild the academy coaches now.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Gilsey 56 on August 08, 2019, 06:33:47 PM
I said in an earlier post it was to early to judge Dowling, but I think we all have to agree, he has hit the button this window.
the most exciting thing is the ages of most of the signing, we want legs ,well we certainly have those.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: sandbachbaggie on August 08, 2019, 06:34:58 PM
Absolutely buzzing. Work with a load of stokies and envious isnt the word. Great job by Dowling. Starting with Slaven. Cannot wait for the weekend.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: AlbionFan on August 08, 2019, 06:41:28 PM
Well done Dowling and Pearce!

Ps. I think the fact that Slaven is our Head Coach should not be overlooked in getting some, if not all our deals over the line
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheBrom on August 08, 2019, 07:10:18 PM
Credit where it’s due, we do seem to have made some quality signings. Shows what happens when you move away from the director of football model and give the power to the manager. It’s taken years to shift the type of players Pulis brought in and shift the policy back to longer term signings.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Adder on August 08, 2019, 07:12:51 PM
Knives away for Jenkins and Lai also - at least for a while. At least Lai seems to be following the 'self sustaining' model he mentioned i.e. he's not asset stripping. 

On the evidence so far, we could have far worse owners.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: gerry m on August 08, 2019, 07:21:12 PM
Hat's off to all concerned. Bringing in an experienced coach and a different mindset on players brought in.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on August 08, 2019, 07:27:26 PM
Excellent window. Probably one of the best for some time
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 08, 2019, 07:39:00 PM
Great window on paper, but we said that 3 seasons ago. I'm waiting to see these lads play before lavishing praise. We also need an explanation re the goings on at the training ground.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on August 08, 2019, 07:40:09 PM
I've made no secret of the fact that i'm not a Dowling fan. That's why I get that people on here will take it with a pinch of salt what i'm going to say next, but i'm going to reserve my praise at this stage.

If your only measure is "by the close of the window, have we built a side that looks like it could get promotion this season" , then on the face of it we seem to have done that. We have bought players in every position needed, we seem to have some highly rated youngsters and fans of other clubs will fear us looking in from the outside.

Of course, our 3 wingers today might all be Jacob Murphy level - we won't know until we see them, but in the face of it that is right.

I've not been convinced by the process though. 1 player signed 3 weeks out from deadline day, then a glut of signings from other championship clubs, and then a deadline day supermarket sweep style rush. We needed a goalscorer and a winger all summer but waited till deadline day to do the business. People might make excuses, but the best operators get their business done more efficiently than that.

The glut on wingers we have bought also feels like overkill, blocking the youth prospects. 1 winger felt like enough, 2 at a push, but 3 seems a touch ott for where we are at the moment.

I also have doubts about our scouting still, especially abroad. Majority of signings were players we have faced in the last 2 years, and of the 3 signings from abroad, 1 is an England youth international everyone knows about, Krov was 100% a Bilic led signing and the rumours are that Pereira was also Bilic led (if that isn't the case I do apologise and it would put my mind at ease).

I could be being very unfair on Dowling, but i've still got reservations that today's activity has not removed. I've got lingering doubts that our comparitive financial muscle has possibly got Dowling out of a tight spot, and next summer he might not be so lucky.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: NJS on August 08, 2019, 07:41:50 PM
Dowling has antagonised the Academy so much the top staff have nearly all left.  Quite clever really; now he may be able to shut it down without having to make large payoffs?

Did we need Willock as well as Pereira?  Where does Edwards figure in all this?
With Diagana coming in where does Harper figure?
Dowling is signalling that the Academy produces players that are either not good enough or get pinched from us.

I don't believe that this is a good long term strategy.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 08, 2019, 07:51:06 PM
Dowling has antagonised the Academy so much the top staff have nearly all left.  Quite clever really; now he may be able to shut it down without having to make large payoffs?

Did we need Willock as well as Pereira?  Where does Edwards figure in all this?
With Diagana coming in where does Harper figure?
Dowling is signalling that the Academy produces players that are either not good enough or get pinched from us.

I don't believe that this is a good long term strategy.

Don’t give up hope, don’t cut your wrists

Call the Samaritans


Remember always look on the bright side of life  8)
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Adder on August 08, 2019, 08:06:47 PM
Dowling has antagonised the Academy so much the top staff have nearly all left.  Quite clever really; now he may be able to shut it down without having to make large payoffs?

Did we need Willock as well as Pereira?  Where does Edwards figure in all this?
With Diagana coming in where does Harper figure?
Dowling is signalling that the Academy produces players that are either not good enough or get pinched from us.

I don't believe that this is a good long term strategy.
It would be strange if Dowling has the power to shut the academy down.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Oldbury24 on August 08, 2019, 08:26:16 PM
Dowling has antagonised the Academy so much the top staff have nearly all left.  Quite clever really; now he may be able to shut it down without having to make large payoffs?

Did we need Willock as well as Pereira?  Where does Edwards figure in all this?
With Diagana coming in where does Harper figure?
Dowling is signalling that the Academy produces players that are either not good enough or get pinched from us.

I don't believe that this is a good long term strategy.

In answer. Willock? Yes, we need a strong squad. Edwards? He is one of four wingers who will compete for places. Harper? He is one of four CM's competing for places and   he has just signed a contract.  The Academy? Iwould expect at least three or four academy products to feature this year and apart from Barry our academy is consistently bringing in bunce and must be running a profit after the Morgan sale.  Dont really get ya point.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: johnnyg on August 08, 2019, 08:48:59 PM
I've made no secret of the fact that i'm not a Dowling fan. That's why I get that people on here will take it with a pinch of salt what i'm going to say next, but i'm going to reserve my praise at this stage.

If your only measure is "by the close of the window, have we built a side that looks like it could get promotion this season" , then on the face of it we seem to have done that. We have bought players in every position needed, we seem to have some highly rated youngsters and fans of other clubs will fear us looking in from the outside.

Of course, our 3 wingers today might all be Jacob Murphy level - we won't know until we see them, but in the face of it that is right.

I've not been convinced by the process though. 1 player signed 3 weeks out from deadline day, then a glut of signings from other championship clubs, and then a deadline day supermarket sweep style rush. We needed a goalscorer and a winger all summer but waited till deadline day to do the business. People might make excuses, but the best operators get their business done more efficiently than that.

The glut on wingers we have bought also feels like overkill, blocking the youth prospects. 1 winger felt like enough, 2 at a push, but 3 seems a touch ott for where we are at the moment.

I also have doubts about our scouting still, especially abroad. Majority of signings were players we have faced in the last 2 years, and of the 3 signings from abroad, 1 is an England youth international everyone knows about, Krov was 100% a Bilic led signing and the rumours are that Pereira was also Bilic led (if that isn't the case I do apologise and it would put my mind at ease).

I could be being very unfair on Dowling, but i've still got reservations that today's activity has not removed. I've got lingering doubts that our comparitive financial muscle has possibly got Dowling out of a tight spot, and next summer he might not be so lucky.

Christ - its hard to please everyone i suppose.
Its the most positive feeling on this forum for a long long time.......... and then this !!!
Lets just enjoy it for what it is right now - a bloody good days work, and lets take the positivity to The Hawthorns on Saturday.
Jesus Christ, we've had enough negativity for the last couple of years without raining on what appears on paper to be our best day for a while.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Mister AT on August 08, 2019, 08:49:47 PM
Dowling has antagonised the Academy so much the top staff have nearly all left.  Quite clever really; now he may be able to shut it down without having to make large payoffs?

Did we need Willock as well as Pereira?  Where does Edwards figure in all this?
With Diagana coming in where does Harper figure?
Dowling is signalling that the Academy produces players that are either not good enough or get pinched from us.

I don't believe that this is a good long term strategy.

Willock can play up top, number 10 and on the wing. Will provide competition for the strikers, wingers and Krov.
Pereira offers competition on Phillips side, a player who hardly ever lasts a full season with any injuries.
Diagana plays a totally different position to Harper so that’s irrelevant. Harper is in competition with Sawyers, Livermore and Brunt.

I would argue the fact that o’Shea, Fitzwater, Ferguson, Harper, Edwards all being involved in the first team squad prove that the academy is working. Leko has been sent out on loan because he isn’t ready for our first team and should have been loaned out ages ago. Field hasn’t been a regular starter for 5 managers now, again needs game time and loaning him out is the right thing to do. Like it or not our academy is doing well and is producing good players. You only have to look at how many are involved in the England set ups, not to mention Barca and Man City poaching two of them.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Gilsey 56 on August 08, 2019, 09:03:45 PM
I do agree with you Johnnyg, its a real positive day and I think Dowling is like Marmite and some people will never give praise to someone they dislike.
im sure Bilic had a say in some of this and he was probably the reason some of them signed, but I think Dowling had a bit to do with it I'm afraid.
Lets hope the potential of the new signings comes to fruition and we have a great season, the squad looks a lot better than a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: P Anderson on August 08, 2019, 09:16:47 PM
First time in many years of following the baggies, have I felt happy with a transfer window. The team looks much better in balance, age, quality and desire to succeed.  We have a very highly rated manager, who has identified the players wanted and got most of them. Most importantly though, is the club seems to have a plan to move forward and head back in the right direction.

It was always going to take time to turn the Albion around after the pulis years and many before that, including the take over which still causes concerns.

I for one am a happy baggie tonight and look forward to Saturday. Well done to the people doing the wheeling and dealing, throughout this window.

COYB
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Oldbury24 on August 08, 2019, 09:21:06 PM
I've made no secret of the fact that i'm not a Dowling fan. That's why I get that people on here will take it with a pinch of salt what i'm going to say next, but i'm going to reserve my praise at this stage.

If your only measure is "by the close of the window, have we built a side that looks like it could get promotion this season" , then on the face of it we seem to have done that. We have bought players in every position needed, we seem to have some highly rated youngsters and fans of other clubs will fear us looking in from the outside.

Of course, our 3 wingers today might all be Jacob Murphy level - we won't know until we see them, but in the face of it that is right.

I've not been convinced by the process though. 1 player signed 3 weeks out from deadline day, then a glut of signings from other championship clubs, and then a deadline day supermarket sweep style rush. We needed a goalscorer and a winger all summer but waited till deadline day to do the business. People might make excuses, but the best operators get their business done more efficiently than that.

The glut on wingers we have bought also feels like overkill, blocking the youth prospects. 1 winger felt like enough, 2 at a push, but 3 seems a touch ott for where we are at the moment.

I also have doubts about our scouting still, especially abroad. Majority of signings were players we have faced in the last 2 years, and of the 3 signings from abroad, 1 is an England youth international everyone knows about, Krov was 100% a Bilic led signing and the rumours are that Pereira was also Bilic led (if that isn't the case I do apologise and it would put my mind at ease).

I could be being very unfair on Dowling, but i've still got reservations that today's activity has not removed. I've got lingering doubts that our comparitive financial muscle has possibly got Dowling out of a tight spot, and next summer he might not be so lucky.

DOF brings in top manegement team,  signs exciting young talent bringing down average age and creating better balance to squad.  Gets top price for outgoing and leaves some in pot for Crimbo.  Gets our brightest academy product contracted.   It might all turn to rubbish..... But as it stands that seems like a decent a decent list of achievement.  Ps only failed to bring back the fans favourite because the player wanted to stay put.   
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on August 08, 2019, 09:36:18 PM
On a day where we have signed 4 (decent) players, I knew my misgivings wouldn't be that well received. I do think though when judging the bloke we have to look at the bigger picture and that's what i'm doing.

I've said already that I don't like what i've seen from Dowling so far, but if in the long run he gets us back to the prem and establishes us there again then i'm happy to admit I got it wrong.

I do find the process important though, as if we don't go up this season, we lose the parachute payments, and then we won't be able to get the likes of Willock or Diangana as as we won't be able to afford the big loan fees we will be paying. If that happens, Dowling will need to show a different side rather than blasting our way through the window as we did today.

Maybe Dowling knows that and is rolling the dice this year as a short term arrangement while he builds a scouting structure and base for next season. It is a medium to long term thing with DoF's, and they are easier to judge over the long term.

I don't want to be fake though and pretend that I love leaving it all until deadline day because I don't. Brentford, with less resources than us, were able to replace players within days because they have savvy operators and a good structure in charge so it can be done.

Whatever my misgivings though, Bilic has the players he wanted now and it is a very strong side for the championship. For this season atleast, we will be very fun to watch.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Aixelsyd on August 08, 2019, 11:04:52 PM
Knives away for Jenkins and Lai also - at least for a while. At least Lai seems to be following the 'self sustaining' model he mentioned i.e. he's not asset stripping. 

On the evidence so far, we could have far worse owners.

He will never asset strip...  we are his "exit strategy" for his money from China.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albionic on August 09, 2019, 08:45:49 AM
On a day where we have signed 4 (decent) players, I knew my misgivings wouldn't be that well received. I do think though when judging the bloke we have to look at the bigger picture and that's what i'm doing.

I've said already that I don't like what i've seen from Dowling so far, but if in the long run he gets us back to the prem and establishes us there again then i'm happy to admit I got it wrong.

I do find the process important though, as if we don't go up this season, we lose the parachute payments, and then we won't be able to get the likes of Willock or Diangana as as we won't be able to afford the big loan fees we will be paying. If that happens, Dowling will need to show a different side rather than blasting our way through the window as we did today.

Maybe Dowling knows that and is rolling the dice this year as a short term arrangement while he builds a scouting structure and base for next season. It is a medium to long term thing with DoF's, and they are easier to judge over the long term.

I don't want to be fake though and pretend that I love leaving it all until deadline day because I don't. Brentford, with less resources than us, were able to replace players within days because they have savvy operators and a good structure in charge so it can be done.

Whatever my misgivings though, Bilic has the players he wanted now and it is a very strong side for the championship. For this season atleast, we will be very fun to watch.

On the importance of promotion this season discussion, I have to say that whilst we all agree its an imperative, the current squad including loanees is more suited to another season in the champs than that which we had last season. The only fading star is Brunty who is almost universally seen as a sort of waning talisman now and will likely be a very peripheral character by the end of this season.

the change in age profile and end of whatever the dressing room clique was has to be a good thing IMO
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 09, 2019, 08:55:05 AM
On a day where we have signed 4 (decent) players, I knew my misgivings wouldn't be that well received. I do think though when judging the bloke we have to look at the bigger picture and that's what i'm doing.

I've said already that I don't like what i've seen from Dowling so far, but if in the long run he gets us back to the prem and establishes us there again then i'm happy to admit I got it wrong.

I do find the process important though, as if we don't go up this season, we lose the parachute payments, and then we won't be able to get the likes of Willock or Diangana as as we won't be able to afford the big loan fees we will be paying. If that happens, Dowling will need to show a different side rather than blasting our way through the window as we did today.

Maybe Dowling knows that and is rolling the dice this year as a short term arrangement while he builds a scouting structure and base for next season. It is a medium to long term thing with DoF's, and they are easier to judge over the long term.

I don't want to be fake though and pretend that I love leaving it all until deadline day because I don't. Brentford, with less resources than us, were able to replace players within days because they have savvy operators and a good structure in charge so it can be done.

Whatever my misgivings though, Bilic has the players he wanted now and it is a very strong side for the championship. For this season atleast, we will be very fun to watch.

we would still have parachute payments next season, greatly reduced but still there.

I think Brentford were fishing from a different pool to us also? Also have they actually brought in anyone of quality? I don't think they've remotely replaced Maupay.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Sted1990 on August 09, 2019, 10:08:28 AM
Excellent window and credit where credit is due.
Some Albion fans would moan if we brought Messi and I’m not joking, they would say his best days are behind him.

Over to you Slav, you have been backed.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SmethDan on August 09, 2019, 11:11:33 AM
Great window on paper, but we said that 3 seasons ago. I'm waiting to see these lads play before lavishing praise. We also need an explanation re the goings on at the training ground.

Agreed on all points with the possible exception of the transfer window three years ago. I'm greatly encouraged by our recruitment but there's no denying I have concerns over Austin's injury record and minutes on the pitch. Further our younger recruits from yesterday all look very talented but can they knit that talent to form cohesive and effective partnerships at Championship level? Interesting times and I'm looking forward to the season but the game's played on grass not paper.

There may well be a hangover at the training ground given recent behind the scenes upheaval from the Academy upwards. Whatever his methods Dowling's led from the top down in pre season but the most stable buildings have the firmest of foundations. Time to take care of business from the bottom up with a clear ethos, new appointments, leadership and direction. Well done thus far Mr Dowling but the time for smoke blowing's still some way off. In the meantime let's hope Slaven makes the most of the tools currently available. COYB  8) .
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 09, 2019, 12:37:22 PM
Great window on paper, but we said that 3 seasons ago. I'm waiting to see these lads play before lavishing praise. We also need an explanation re the goings on at the training ground.

I agree with this.

On paper, its a great window.

Proof will be in the pudding.

Many thought January was good and that proved to be awful.

Really happy to see that the average age of the squad has been brought down and replaced with young, hungry, technically gifted, athletic footballers. That's the great positive.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: paulosull on August 09, 2019, 01:29:18 PM
Still light up front with only two recognised strikers and two converted wingers in HRK and Burke.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: baggiedom on August 09, 2019, 01:45:44 PM
Overall I'm happy with what's happened, Barry deal fair enough we got much younger mobile midfield this season so Barry should slot in no problem, plenty of wingers yes but no issue with competition, youngsters will have ups and downs so might need taking out of firing line so new boys come in, up front maybe a body light but space for tulloch to make a claim, can't please everybody but looking forward to rest of season coyb
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: VANDERLEI on August 09, 2019, 01:48:53 PM
Still light up front with only two recognised strikers and two converted wingers in HRK and Burke.

Phillips can also do a good job up front as he has for Scotland. With the attacking players we have bought in, I don't think we needed any other strikers unless Austin gets injured for a sustained period.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: WBAlbion123 on August 09, 2019, 02:11:51 PM
I've made no secret of the fact that i'm not a Dowling fan. That's why I get that people on here will take it with a pinch of salt what i'm going to say next, but i'm going to reserve my praise at this stage.

If your only measure is "by the close of the window, have we built a side that looks like it could get promotion this season" , then on the face of it we seem to have done that. We have bought players in every position needed, we seem to have some highly rated youngsters and fans of other clubs will fear us looking in from the outside.

Of course, our 3 wingers today might all be Jacob Murphy level - we won't know until we see them, but in the face of it that is right.

I've not been convinced by the process though. 1 player signed 3 weeks out from deadline day, then a glut of signings from other championship clubs, and then a deadline day supermarket sweep style rush. We needed a goalscorer and a winger all summer but waited till deadline day to do the business. People might make excuses, but the best operators get their business done more efficiently than that.

The glut on wingers we have bought also feels like overkill, blocking the youth prospects. 1 winger felt like enough, 2 at a push, but 3 seems a touch ott for where we are at the moment.

I also have doubts about our scouting still, especially abroad. Majority of signings were players we have faced in the last 2 years, and of the 3 signings from abroad, 1 is an England youth international everyone knows about, Krov was 100% a Bilic led signing and the rumours are that Pereira was also Bilic led (if that isn't the case I do apologise and it would put my mind at ease).

I could be being very unfair on Dowling, but i've still got reservations that today's activity has not removed. I've got lingering doubts that our comparitive financial muscle has possibly got Dowling out of a tight spot, and next summer he might not be so lucky.

Couldn't have summed it up better myself however I appreciate it is easy to criticise from the outside looking in.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: skyclad99 on October 07, 2019, 09:10:38 AM
I just wanted to give credit where it is due to Luke Dowling and others who have overseen the transformation at our club. We thought we were OK last year under Big Dave, but unfortunately that did not work out. We were all on here criticising the board, recruitment, team, set up etc, but the appointment of Slaven and the acquisition of players we saw on Saturday has been an absolute masterstroke. If you go onto other sites they all give credit to the management running our club for their astute business over the past few months.
Its very easy to be critical when it goes wrong [I know I was], but they have assembled one of the most exciting teams we have seen down there for quite some time. An absolute pleasure to watch and personally I cannot wait to get back down there. All this is happening for a reason and the board and recruiting staff need to be recognised for this transformation.
Superb football thank you. :D     
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: AlbionFan on October 07, 2019, 09:23:43 AM
I just wanted to give credit where it is due to Luke Dowling and others who have overseen the transformation at our club. We thought we were OK last year under Big Dave, but unfortunately that did not work out. We were all on here criticising the board, recruitment, team, set up etc, but the appointment of Slaven and the acquisition of players we saw on Saturday has been an absolute masterstroke. If you go onto other sites they all give credit to the management running our club for their astute business over the past few months.
Its very easy to be critical when it goes wrong [I know I was], but they have assembled one of the most exciting teams we have seen down there for quite some time. An absolute pleasure to watch and personally I cannot wait to get back down there. All this is happening for a reason and the board and recruiting staff need to be recognised for this transformation.
Superb football thank you. :D   

I couldn’t agree with you more skyclad99, well said and credit to you for acknowledging the improvements. But also the owner, who has received a fair amount of criticism, has facilitated the transformation in my view.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: overseas baggie on October 08, 2019, 02:08:02 PM
I couldn’t agree with you more skyclad99, well said and credit to you for acknowledging the improvements. But also the owner, who has received a fair amount of criticism, has facilitated the transformation in my view.

The invisible owner....does he still exist?
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: SmethDan on October 09, 2019, 09:40:12 AM
The invisible owner....does he still exist?

He does indeed, and he wants a word with you.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXMOURHEMpY

.........  ;D .
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: geoff on October 09, 2019, 02:03:05 PM
He does indeed, and he wants a word with you.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXMOURHEMpY

.........  ;D .

I'll raise you with this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKdxd718WXg&list=RDzKdxd718WXg&start_radio=1
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Baggies on December 29, 2019, 11:50:42 PM
For those who didn't buy the match day programme, Luke Dowling has written a short piece with a January update.

There isn't much to tell from it (mentions them hopefully having clarity on the Diangana situation later this week plus hoping to get a decision from Ferguson in January), however the most interesting point was as follows:

"I think there were times last season (January?) when we were thinking too much about whether our targets might be able to eventually play premier league football. That is not the case this time. We are in a dog fight in the championship and the over riding question is whether or not any new recruits can help us get to the finishing line with our noses in front".

He also mentioned trying to use the loan market.

I'd suggest a signing like Gayle actually sounds more likely from that, or other players who are bought in solely to get promotion with out getting bogged down by their ability to step up next season.

Not sure I love the policy, but it suggests the club are going to go for it in January.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 29, 2019, 11:58:10 PM
For those who didn't buy the match day programme, Luke Dowling has written a short piece with a January update.

There isn't much to tell from it (mentions them hopefully having clarity on the Diangana situation later this week plus hoping to get a decision from Ferguson in January), however the most interesting point was as follows:

"I think there were times last season (January?) when we were thinking too much about whether our targets might be able to eventually play premier league football. That is not the case this time. We are in a dog fight in the championship and the over riding question is whether or not any new recruits can help us get to the finishing line with our noses in front".

He also mentioned trying to use the loan market.

I'd suggest a signing like Gayle actually sounds more likely from that, or other players who are bought in solely to get promotion with out getting bogged down by their ability to step up next season.

Not sure I love the policy, but it suggests the club are going to go for it in January.


He's got it totally wrong...  and as an aside none of our signings last January would have strengthened us in the Premier League which makes his comments even worse.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: overseas baggie on December 30, 2019, 12:35:30 AM

He's got it totally wrong...  and as an aside none of our signings last January would have strengthened us in the Premier League which makes his comments even worse.

Personally I don’t care if we go up and come straight back down again, provided that we give it a go when we get up. This season and last season have been two of the most enjoyable seasons out of the last 4 or 5 since Roy left.  2 out of every 3 seasons in the Championship playing good football and 1 or 2 out of 3 seasons in the Premier League will be just fine in my book.  Just like Norwich.  Villa have wasted £130m after going up and will be in poor shape if/when they come back down. 

Just enjoy the ride.  Buy mostly young hungry players with good resale values with one or two older ones needed to get us up and secure the future parachute payments. If we had to offload Austin or HRK after going up then there would be no shortage of buyers in the Championship.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 30, 2019, 12:49:10 AM
Personally I don’t care if we go up and come straight back down again, provided that we give it a go when we get up. This season and last season have been two of the most enjoyable seasons out of the last 4 or 5 since Roy left.  2 out of every 3 seasons in the Championship playing good football and 1 or 2 out of 3 seasons in the Premier League will be just fine in my book.  Just like Norwich.  Villa have wasted £130m after going up and will be in poor shape if/when they come back down. 

Just enjoy the ride.  Buy mostly young hungry players with good resale values with one or two older ones needed to get us up and secure the future parachute payments. If we had to offload Austin or HRK after going up then there would be no shortage of buyers in the Championship.


Lovely sentiment but I totally disagree, it's grim down here, it was in the 90s and it is now.


Also, we will never ever get a fee for HRK.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 30, 2019, 05:14:09 AM
Personally I don’t care if we go up and come straight back down again, provided that we give it a go when we get up. This season and last season have been two of the most enjoyable seasons out of the last 4 or 5 since Roy left.  2 out of every 3 seasons in the Championship playing good football and 1 or 2 out of 3 seasons in the Premier League will be just fine in my book.  Just like Norwich.  Villa have wasted £130m after going up and will be in poor shape if/when they come back down. 

Just enjoy the ride.  Buy mostly young hungry players with good resale values with one or two older ones needed to get us up and secure the future parachute payments. If we had to offload Austin or HRK after going up then there would be no shortage of buyers in the Championship.
Great Post, realistic, we know what we are.If we go up, we will come straight back down, only Pereira of Premier League standard.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: BigFrank20 on December 30, 2019, 06:46:11 AM
Great Post, realistic, we know what we are.If we go up, we will come straight back down, only Pereira of Premier League standard.
I've tried hard to formulate an argument against this but must admit 68 is correct in his assertion that Pereira is our only truly PL quality player and hell be gone for a big fee in the not too distant future
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: overseas baggie on December 30, 2019, 07:44:01 AM

Lovely sentiment but I totally disagree, it's grim down here, it was in the 90s and it is now.


Also, we will never ever get a fee for HRK.

What’s “grim” about it?  Massive positivity around the club, fans wanting to watch us, no Pulis anti-football merely trying to avoid defeat, some of the best football that we’ve seen in years?   The Premier League is rubbish for 12 or 13 clubs apart from the novelty of the first season after going up.  There is no chance of winning anything and all the extra money disappears in transfer fees, wages and agents fees.

Of course we’d get a fee for HRK.  The likes of Wigan, Millwall etc would happily buy a player like him, especially after his scoring run this season.

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: overseas baggie on December 30, 2019, 07:47:41 AM
I've tried hard to formulate an argument against this but must admit 68 is correct in his assertion that Pereira is our only truly PL quality player and hell be gone for a big fee in the not too distant future

Our only chance of survival would be along the lines of Sheffield United who also have very few players of obvious PL standard. The sum of their parts far exceeds their individual talents.  However, I don’t think that our squad is anything like theirs in nature, and unless we spent incredibly well and also successfully offloaded 75% our current squad, we could well be relegated by February.

Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Foster#1 on December 30, 2019, 08:32:47 AM
I find it highly embarrassing that people are already talking about relegation next season

Delusional springs to mind
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: skyclad99 on December 30, 2019, 08:48:54 AM
I find it highly embarrassing that people are already talking about relegation next season

Delusional springs to mind

Its a bit premature to say that we will come down without knowing what our squad will look like. Our present team will find it hard, but with a few shrewd acquisitions we may survive. Lets be fair, we will never do a Wolves with our present owners, but this season has shown positive intent from the owners/board and there is nothing to suggest that this is about to stop. So lets see what January brings and worry about survival when it actually is a problem.

In Slav we trust COYB.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 30, 2019, 09:02:11 AM
I find it highly embarrassing that people are already talking about relegation next season

Delusional springs to mind
Please don't be embarrassed on my behalf , I have been supporting the team since 1958, I am a Home & Away STH. I am loving life in the Championship. Any wealth that is earned by promotion to the Premier League will be very quickly distributed between players , agents, Mr Lai, and we as supporters will watch on maybe for a season or more before we return to what Jeremy Peace defined as our rightful place.
Me I want entertainment and I am getting it in the Championship ( poor refereeing apart ) so for me Feck SKY TV, Feck VAR and COYB
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on December 30, 2019, 09:32:10 AM
Couple of points here I think Dowling's comments referred to our willingness to buy players who would do a job in the Championship but would have a question mark about their ability if we were promoted. The players we bought in were bought in on loan so as not to commit to buying them in the longer term. Holgate was a success Johansen a partial success whereas Murphy and Montero weren't.

I can think of a couple of players that might be available for instance Taylor at Charlton and Maddison at Peterborough who could help us in the here and now but who you would have fairly substantial doubts about should we get promotion. If these are the types of signings we need to get us over the line well so be it. Personally I am not all that keen but it is what is.

Looking further forward I simply don't subscribe to the Premier League at all costs view. If we end up staying up by playing the most boringly reductive football imaginable that is a lot worse than being in the Championship. Even if we succeed we are dying as a club and eventually we will be relegated and at that point we are a likely to be a lot worse position than we would be had a brief stay in the Premier League. (See Sunderland and Stoke).

With regard to the existing squad I think people are being unduly pessimistic and are overestimating the quality in the bottom half of the Premier League  in the same way the owners  of many of those teams confuse big fees and wages as a substitute for a coherent plan and a squad assembled to deliver that plan which is basically what Sheffield United have done. Equally it is what Norwich City have done but I don't think their plan is quite as good as Sheffield United's
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: overseas baggie on December 30, 2019, 09:44:58 AM
Couple of points here I think Dowling's comments referred to our willingness to buy players who would do a job in the Championship but would have a question mark about their ability if we were promoted. The players we bought in were bought in on loan so as not to commit to buying them in the longer term. Holgate was a success Johansen a partial success whereas Murphy and Montero weren't.

I can think of a couple of players that might be available for instance Taylor at Charlton and Maddison at Peterborough who could help us in the here and now but who you would have fairly substantial doubts about should we get promotion. If these are the types of signings we need to get us over the line well so be it. Personally I am not all that keen but it is what is.

Looking further forward I simply don't subscribe to the Premier League at all costs view. If we end up staying up by playing the most boringly reductive football imaginable that is a lot worse than being in the Championship. Even if we succeed we are dying as a club and eventually we will be relegated and at that point we are a likely to be a lot worse position than we would be had a brief stay in the Premier League. (See Sunderland and Stoke).

With regard to the existing squad I think people are being unduly pessimistic and are overestimating the quality in the bottom half of the Premier League  in the same way the owners  of many of those teams confuse big fees and wages as a substitute for a coherent plan and a squad assembled to deliver that plan which is basically what Sheffield United have done. Equally it is what Norwich City have done but I don't think their plan is quite as good as Sheffield United's

Very well said.

The only good thing about going up is that it guarantees us parachute payments to ensure that we can do what we’ve done this year and last year in the Championship.  Throwing the kitchen sink financially at staying up, and then failing, would make us very vulnerable in the Championship which, as you say, Stoke and Sunderland (and hopefully Villa!) discovered.  Let’s go up, be sensible, give it a go to try and win the winnable games, and ensure that we never again have to endure anything like the last 50% of the Pulis era.   Keep recruiting well, buy players with sell-on value, and make our Academy work well for us.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Albionic on December 30, 2019, 09:56:18 AM
Couple of points here I think Dowling's comments referred to our willingness to buy players who would do a job in the Championship but would have a question mark about their ability if we were promoted. The players we bought in were bought in on loan so as not to commit to buying them in the longer term. Holgate was a success Johansen a partial success whereas Murphy and Montero weren't.

I can think of a couple of players that might be available for instance Taylor at Charlton and Maddison at Peterborough who could help us in the here and now but who you would have fairly substantial doubts about should we get promotion. If these are the types of signings we need to get us over the line well so be it. Personally I am not all that keen but it is what is.

Looking further forward I simply don't subscribe to the Premier League at all costs view. If we end up staying up by playing the most boringly reductive football imaginable that is a lot worse than being in the Championship. Even if we succeed we are dying as a club and eventually we will be relegated and at that point we are a likely to be a lot worse position than we would be had a brief stay in the Premier League. (See Sunderland and Stoke).

With regard to the existing squad I think people are being unduly pessimistic and are overestimating the quality in the bottom half of the Premier League  in the same way the owners  of many of those teams confuse big fees and wages as a substitute for a coherent plan and a squad assembled to deliver that plan which is basically what Sheffield United have done. Equally it is what Norwich City have done but I don't think their plan is quite as good as Sheffield United's

As always a well written comment, however we must remember that what we would like as fans is not the same as the club (chairman) wants. International exposure is the end game for Mr Lai and that ONLY comes in the prem, hence he will not be considering the fluency of our passing football, the merits of 4-3-3 versus 6-3-1. His only interest will be survival, but lets get there first and worry about that then.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: Standaman on December 30, 2019, 10:45:39 AM
As always a well written comment, however we must remember that what we would like as fans is not the same as the club (chairman) wants. International exposure is the end game for Mr Lai and that ONLY comes in the prem, hence he will not be considering the fluency of our passing football, the merits of 4-3-3 versus 6-3-1. His only interest will be survival, but lets get there first and worry about that then.

Agree but even here our Owners are learning they may be distant they have made mistakes but let us not assume they are stupid. How much kudos is there in owning the Premier League's ugly duckling who no neutral would ever willing want to watch? I guess they might have found out not much. Yes they will want to stay in the Premier League but might now understand that to do so at all costs is counter productive.

The appointment of Dowling and Bilic might signal a different path.  It might not but we will only really know if we get promoted.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: AlbionFan on March 11, 2020, 09:04:51 AM
Divide will help West Brom rule, believes Luke Dowling

A good article by Joseph Masi, an encouraging read about Albion's commitment to our Academy status, plus news on a new Under 23's Head Coach.   

Source:  https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/03/11/divide-will-help-west-brom-rule-believes-luke-dowling/
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 11, 2020, 09:36:14 AM
only just noticed some of the comments on here and i find it absolutely baffling.

Perreria our only PL quality player?

and discussing relegation before we are even promoted?

how embarrassing. i watch PL football regular and we have at least 7-8 PL players. Yes, some of them are not top 6 prem players and bottom half players but we have the basis to be successful in there.

the lack of positivity of some of our fans sometimes really does rile me.
Title: Re: Director of Football
Post by: KN22 on March 11, 2020, 12:52:46 PM
only just noticed some of the comments on here and i find it absolutely baffling.

Perreria our only PL quality player?

and discussing relegation before we are even promoted?

how embarrassing. i watch PL football regular and we have at least 7-8 PL players. Yes, some of them are not top 6 prem players and bottom half players but we have the basis to be successful in there.

the lack of positivity of some of our fans sometimes really does rile me.

I am with you 100%. Of course we will need to invest but we absolutely do not only have 1 premier league class player.