[tommcneill]

Once again, we won today in spite of his tactics and in-game management, not because of it.

We won in-spite of his tactics??

We won playing his tactics....

[SirTonyM]

Once again, we won today in spite of his tactics and in-game management, not because of it.

Ok so when we lose it’s not his fault either then...

[tommcneill]

Ok so when we lose it’s not his fault either then...

exactly it works both ways

[beechyboy90]

I like what he's trying he just needs to find the balance it's Abit total football tony mowbray at the moment- needing 3 to win a game won't work in the long run.

At least we saw field today and he finally broke up brunt and Livermore (whether it worked or not is a separate issue)

[SirTonyM]

exactly it works both ways

Yep that argument has never made sense to me.

[liverbaggie]

A wins a win,well done coaches players and fans,3 more points top six,what's the problem,its winning as count's, some people expect perfection each game,which team in the world ever achieves it all the time.
Put it this way our defence can only get better,then the others had better watch out.

[timdon]

exactly it works both ways

So if we win it's in spite of his tactics and if we lose it's not his fault. No real point having a head coach then lol.

Everyone wanted attacking football, we have it

Everyone wanted watching football to be fun and entertaining again, it is

Everyone wanted us to be winning games and up near the top of the table, we are

Of course we can improve, every team can, but we really are a work in progress. DM showed tonight by dropping Brunt that he is strong enough to make changes when he feels he needs to, and sends a message that no-one can take for granted their selection.

As for the defence, new system, new goalie, new personnel (some), they need to work as a unit, and this will improve as they spend more time playing together. Also, we have been used to seeing a well drilled defence under Pulis, but now we are much more attacking it is inevitable that the defence will be exposed more often. It gives us the jitters because we can see than Man City would put 10 past us, but this is the Championship and the quality isn't as good, so will will get away with it more often.

Well happy tonight

[WBArgo]

Main positive of tonight was bringing in Barry for Brunt, showing Moore can change/see problems and that experienced players aren't too big to be benched.

I thought his subs were a bit smarter than usual too and helped to slow the game down and kill it. Hopefully he is learning as if he can sort our defence out then we will do well.

[OldburyWBA]

3rd in the league

Let's replace the manage aye

Can we cut the petty stuff please, win, lose or draw its boring and not wanted on here.

[wba_1996]

Thought his team selection was better today, though it still didn't look right on the pitch. I'll also praise him for the Hoolahan/Rodriguez sub as I believe that was his first substitution that has actually had an effect on a game, closed the spaces they were exploiting in the midfield and Hoolahan is experienced and tidy enough to help close the game out.

The defence looks shambolic though, and we're yet to properly outplay a team this season - even the QPR game wasn't a 7-1 performance. There just doesn't seem to be any indication that we can control the midfield regardless of who we are playing against, and the centre backs are all looking like bomb scares whenever we get attacked.

Going to be another week of reserving judgment for me.

[SirTonyM]

Can we cut the petty stuff please, win, lose or draw its boring and not wanted on here.

Fair point and valid but is asking for a new managers head after 5 games petty?

[paulosull]

Happy days loved the attacking threat we had and top three so clinical in front of goal, had palpitations with the three at the back with Hegazi been the worst of a bad lot and what was he doing for their second goal . He went straight down tunnel after match and didn't shake anyone's hand.

[OldburyWBA]

Fair point and valid but is asking for a new managers head after 5 games petty?

To me yes as it knee jerk, we just don't want the toing and froing when we win a game and then lose a game of one camp battling the other, we'd prefer sensible stuff not petty squabbles especially posts containing nothing worth reading.

[SirTonyM]

To me yes as it knee jerk, we just don't want the toing and froing when we win a game and then lose a game of one camp battling the other, we'd prefer sensible stuff not petty squabbles especially posts containing nothing worth reading.

Agreed And thanks for your hard work keeping us on track

[LiamTheBaggie]

Main positive of tonight was bringing in Barry for Brunt, showing Moore can change/see problems and that experienced players aren't too big to be benched.

I thought his subs were a bit smarter than usual too and helped to slow the game down and kill it. Hopefully he is learning as if he can sort our defence out then we will do well.

It helps when you have a 36 year old class act in Gareth Barry.

The real question is would Brunt have been dropped for a lesser presence such as Field? No, in my view.

[boinging_along]

Obviously we look great going forward but absolutely awful in defence.

My issue with Moore over this is the two things aren't really *that* connected.  If we tightened things up at the back I don't see how it would have much of an affect on our attacking play.

It's not a case of the defence is in trouble because we are playing so attacking minded - it's a case the defence is in trouble because they're not capable of doing the basics.

That can (and should) get fixed.

[Fritzl Palace]

Obviously we look great going forward but absolutely awful in defence.

My issue with Moore over this is the two things aren't really *that* connected.  If we tightened things up at the back I don't see how it would have much of an affect on our attacking play.

It's not a case of the defence is in trouble because we are playing so attacking minded - it's a case the defence is in trouble because they're not capable of doing the basics.

That can (and should) get fixed.

The defence is in trouble, for me, because of what Darren is asking them to do. You have three out and out defenders at the back and he is asking them to play some form of possession based, passing game from the back which none of them are comfortable with and as a result of there being three of them there, we are losing out on an extra body to keep possession further up the pitch.

Sadly, thanks to the fact that we failed to sign a right back of any note in the window, presumably because a) Darren/Jones wanted to play 3 at the back b) we are too tight to invest in one, we are now stuck with a defensive system that does not work.

Darren is extremely lucky that we have an attacking line up of Barnes, Phillips, Gayle and Rodriguez, all of whom would walk into every team in this league, as they will bail him out of a lot of trouble this season. Away from home, however, when they will see less of the ball, we are already seeing how tactically the onus is on Moore and he is failing to deliver thus far.

[Mister AT]

The defence is in trouble, for me, because of what Darren is asking them to do. You have three out and out defenders at the back and he is asking them to play some form of possession based, passing game from the back which none of them are comfortable with and as a result of there being three of them there, we are losing out on an extra body to keep possession further up the pitch.

Sadly, thanks to the fact that we failed to sign a right back of any note in the window, presumably because a) Darren/Jones wanted to play 3 at the back b) we are too tight to invest in one, we are now stuck with a defensive system that does not work.

Darren is extremely lucky that we have an attacking line up of Barnes, Phillips, Gayle and Rodriguez, all of whom would walk into every team in this league, as they will bail him out of a lot of trouble this season. Away from home, however, when they will see less of the ball, we are already seeing how tactically the onus is on Moore and he is failing to deliver thus far.

The bit that puzzles me the most is if DM knew this was the style of play he wanted to play going forward, then signing Bartley seems bizarre as he seems the most uncomfortable out the 3 on the ball.

I said it on another post, we only seem to be in trouble when one of the back 3 play a sloppy pass out and leave us open.

[Albionic]

I think its refreshing that experienced players are being given a run in the side to show they can still cut it, but, when they fail CONSISTENTLY the manager is big enough to make changes.
Sometimes the changes will work sometimes they will not.

Darren isn't a tinkerman and he is also showing he is not so dogmatic as to be damaging, its a hard line to tread but it looks (to me) that DM is getting it about right. (so far).

yes away performances and defence still need a fair bit of work, but as someone said above if can get it all right we will be a cut above anyone else in this league. Its very rare for everything to come right though and unheard of in B71 

[boinging_along]

The bit that puzzles me the most is if DM knew this was the style of play he wanted to play going forward, then signing Bartley seems bizarre as he seems the most uncomfortable out the 3 on the ball.

I said it on another post, we only seem to be in trouble when one of the back 3 play a sloppy pass out and leave us open.

Or any crosses into the box, we tend to not deal with them that well although we did better last night.  The commentators remarked on how many headers Dawson just wasn't winning.  We also tend to let the ball bounce more than we should.

As for the passing out.  I don't know if this link will work but I grabbed a still from 25 seconds into the highlights on Sky where we should have conceded after having easy control.

http://i64.tinypic.com/2cwx3pi.jpg


You can just see Dawson's shadow off to the left of the pitch.  Either Hegazi plays it forward or he plays a negative ball back to Dawson and invites more pressure.   Look where Bartley is!  He is MILES away and effectively out of the game.  At this point we are playing with 2 defenders. 

So Hegazi opts to chip the ball forward but his pass is all wrong.  It's not into feet, it's not over the head to run onto.  It gives the Albion player zero chance because his pass is so poor.  The Bristol player just heads the ball forward, Hegazi is the wrong side and too slow to react.  Bartley is too far away to get across, Bristol should have scored.

Even if the header forward was poorer, we were still suddenly outnumbered.

This is just one example when our setup is wrong, the quality of the pass is wrong and it puts us into heaps of trouble.  Look at the number of Bristol players forward, if Hegazi's ball is better then we do cut them out.  Play a poor pass though and we are struggling.

[altonbaggie]

That picture sums the bigger question up for me.  If Moore or Jones look at that image then you suspect that like us they could point out who isn't in the right position for the way we are looking to play.  The argument then would be "with more training sessions we can make the system work as the players learn and adapt".  Bartley would be a bit closer, Livermore would have found space, Barry would be in the picture/available as would Dawson, and even Phillips' shadow would be showing. 

But, let's say all of the players have learnt the system well.  Then would Hegazi pick the right pass and be able to execute it - or the other 2.  It's hard to know for definite...because what we've seen happen alot so far is it all goes a bit slow and they get out of position and then the defender has a visible panic and plays a bad pass.   Would they have played a better one if the system was being implemented better?

One thing though - we are scoring some great goals at least in part because we play out from the back.  If we win 4-2 each week with horrific defending then I'd still renew next year [in the interests of evenness, I was at Birmingham and I'm not sure I could watch that!].  If we had had more 1-0 / 0-0 matches with great defending then I wouldn't have renewed.  Like others, I can see problems but I'd hope people are enjoying going to the game more and surely the manager gets some credit for that?

[HampshireBaggie]

Once again, we won today in spite of his tactics and in-game management, not because of it.

Possibly one of the most ridiculous comments I’ve ever seen on this forum.

[boinging_along]

I agree alton.  I think if we are set up this way then the defender playing the pass has to do better.  It's sort of along the lines of "not there ffs!".  We are asking Hegazi to play too good a pass in those situations. 

Regards your last paragraph, as I said in another thread though, it's great when we're winning.  But if we start slipping up more and we end up losing 2-1, 3-1, it'll be a very different story.  Cross that bridge when we get to it I guess.

Another issue is long term.  Gayle and Barnes are not our players and are absolutely crucial to us at the moment.  Dawson made it clear he wants to leave, as did J-Rod and we nearly lost Gibbs.  Barry\Hoolahan won't be around much longer. 

What's Moore's plan for next year?  Go for promotion and see if we can sign Gayle\Barnes and improve the defence?  What if we don't go up?  Less money, lose even more players?  This season is so crucial for us that we can't really afford to be shipping cheap goals.

[SmethDan]

Possibly one of the most ridiculous comments I’ve ever seen on this forum.

That's quite a sweeping statement given some of the competition    .

[Atomic]

Or any crosses into the box, we tend to not deal with them that well although we did better last night.  The commentators remarked on how many headers Dawson just wasn't winning.  We also tend to let the ball bounce more than we should.

As for the passing out.  I don't know if this link will work but I grabbed a still from 25 seconds into the highlights on Sky where we should have conceded after having easy control.

http://i64.tinypic.com/2cwx3pi.jpg





You can just see Dawson's shadow off to the left of the pitch.  Either Hegazi plays it forward or he plays a negative ball back to Dawson and invites more pressure.   Look where Bartley is!  He is MILES away and effectively out of the game.  At this point we are playing with 2 defenders. 

So Hegazi opts to chip the ball forward but his pass is all wrong.  It's not into feet, it's not over the head to run onto.  It gives the Albion player zero chance because his pass is so poor.  The Bristol player just heads the ball forward, Hegazi is the wrong side and too slow to react.  Bartley is too far away to get across, Bristol should have scored.

Even if the header forward was poorer, we were still suddenly outnumbered.

This is just one example when our setup is wrong, the quality of the pass is wrong and it puts us into heaps of trouble.  Look at the number of Bristol players forward, if Hegazi's ball is better then we do cut them out.  Play a poor pass though and we are struggling.

This is where decision making is key though. Hegazi makes the wrong pass here because as you say his pass has to be pretty much perfect. The decision he should've made is the pass to Dawson who then should in turn use the triangle and play a first time ball into Livermore (I think it is in shot).

Even Man City had problems adjusting to exaggerated playing out from the back so it's inevitable that we will.