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West Bromwich Albion v Bristol City
Tuesday 18th September 2018 20.00pm
Please use this board for all your After Match Debate. Away fans are reminded to abide by the site rules.
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West Bromwich Albion v Bristol City
Tuesday 18th September 2018 20.00pm
Please use this board for all your In Game Chat. Opposition fans are reminded to abide by the site rules.
Please keep this board Albion related, there are boards elsewhere in General Sports to discuss other games
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West Bromwich Albion v Bristol City
Tuesday 18th September 2018 20.00pm
Please use this board for all your Pre Match Chat. Opposition fans are reminded to abide by the site rules.
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West Bromwich Albion v Bristol City
Tuesday 18th September 2018 20.00pm
PRICES
Allocation:
£20/£23 Adults, £15/£17 Senior 65, £15 Students + & U23, £10 U18, £5 U11, £10 Disabled
SALE DATES
Home Season Ticket Holders Online/ In Person/ Phone - Monday August 13
Members Online/ In Person/ Phone - Wednesday August 15
General Sale - Wednesday August 15
For upto date ticket info
CLICK HERE (http://www.wba.co.uk/tickets/)
MEMBERS WITH LESS THAN 25 POSTS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO OFFER TICKETS FOR SALE OR REQUEST TO BUY TICKETS ON WESTBROM.COM.
ANYONE IGNORING THAT RULING WILL HAVE THEIR POST REMOVED.
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Will this be on sky live? I noticed the last time there was midweek championship games you could press the red button and watch any game that was on, also read that it was part of the tv deal with sky. So we should be on the red button shouldn’t we ?
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Will this be on sky live? I noticed the last time there was midweek championship games you could press the red button and watch any game that was on, also read that it was part of the tv deal with sky. So we should be on the red button shouldn’t we ?
Yes.
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I'm away for this game so happy to offer up my seat at the back of the Smethwick to anyone who wants it and it's for free (I've already paid via my season ticket)
Its near the back, at the end of row NN, so it is in amongst the noisy buggers who habitually stand a lot. So if banging of drums or people who stand get on your wick then this is not the seat for you, however if you have always wanted to see what all the fuss is about being in the back of the Smethwick feel free to fill your boots.
PM me and it will be done on a first come first served basis and I'll post the ticket on to you
COYB
Ticket has now gone
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Referee: Jeremy Simpson
Assistant Referee: Nick Hopton
Assistant Referee: Adam Matthews
Fourth Official: Mark Heywood
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On the back of tonights display:
Johnstone
Tosin Dawson Barry
Field Livermore
Phillips. Gibbs
Barnes
JRod Gayle
Reality will be the same team as tonight
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Does anyone at the club read these forums? If so can you please knock on Darren Moore's door and please, please, please ask him to give Sam Field a run in the middle of the park. This is driving me nuts because the answer to our problem in there is right within the club and Darren just cannot see it.
Actually if anyone has a personal EMail address for Darren someone please let me have it. I've never even thought of contacting a manager before but I would politely ask for answers on this issue.
The other change I'd make is Adarabioyo for Bartley. I'm not certain if that's the answer but at least lets look at it. From what I've seen of Tosin so far he has far more natural ability than Bartley but can he play on the left of a three? One way to find out.
Johnstone
Dawson Hegazi Adarabioyo
Phillips Livermore FIELD Gibbs
Barnes
JRod / Burke / HRK? Gayle.
Don't know who I'd play alongside Gayle.
Subs: Myhill, Bartley, Barry, Harper, Hoolahan, Brunt, JRod / Burke / HRK.
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I haven't seen Bristol City play last year so my team selection is based on the assumption that they will try and press us like they did against City in the League Cup last year:
Johnstone
Dawson
Hegazi
Barry
Phillips
Livermore
Brunt
Gibbs
Barnes
Burke
Gayle
Myhill, Adarabioyo, Mears, Townsend, Field, Hoolahan, Rodriguez
I worry about Phillips and/or Gibbs picking up and injury, hence Mears and Townsend on the bench. I know he has played as a forward for us but I do wonder whether Robson-Kanu could play rwb for us. He played wide plenty for Reading and looks disciplined enough to do his defensive work to me. If so, I'd have him on the bench ahead of Mears as he'd then cover rwb and cf.
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If there aren't a couple of changes in the back 7 I'll be very surprised. I also think he'll start HRK for Rodrigues.
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Yes, we're live on Sky on the Red Button
https://www.skysports.com/watch/football-on-sky/competitions/championship
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Does anyone at the club read these forums? If so can you please knock on Darren Moore's door and please, please, please ask him to give Sam Field a run in the middle of the park. This is driving me nuts because the answer to our problem in there is right within the club and Darren just cannot see it.
Actually if anyone has a personal EMail address for Darren someone please let me have it. I've never even thought of contacting a manager before but I would politely ask for answers on this issue.
The other change I'd make is Adarabioyo for Bartley. I'm not certain if that's the answer but at least lets look at it. From what I've seen of Tosin so far he has far more natural ability than Bartley but can he play on the left of a three? One way to find out.
Johnstone
Dawson Hegazi Adarabioyo
Phillips Livermore FIELD Gibbs
Barnes
JRod / Burke / HRK? Gayle.
Don't know who I'd play alongside Gayle.
Subs: Myhill, Bartley, Barry, Harper, Hoolahan, Brunt, JRod / Burke / HRK.
I think there’s more to the whole Field thing can we know about, maybe he just isn’t good enough? Pulis, Pardew and now Moore aren’t picking him, but a lot of fans seem to hold him as the saviour to our midfield. For why it’s worth, I would prefer to see Harper get some game time in the middle. He he abit more about him.
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I think there’s more to the whole Field thing can we know about, maybe he just isn’t good enough? Pulis, Pardew and now Moore aren’t picking him, but a lot of fans seem to hold him as the saviour to our midfield. For why it’s worth, I would prefer to see Harper get some game time in the middle. He he abit more about him.
If Field isn't good enough why do we keep extending his contract and why does he keep getting in England age squads ? Also, how did he look pretty decent in the premier league ?
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It is on the red button - just don't expect the usual 'main game' full features. i.e. it's not HD, can't record or pause it and coverage has a limited number of cameras....but main thing is it's on.
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I think there’s more to the whole Field thing can we know about, maybe he just isn’t good enough? Pulis, Pardew and now Moore aren’t picking him, but a lot of fans seem to hold him as the saviour to our midfield. For why it’s worth, I would prefer to see Harper get some game time in the middle. He he abit more about him.
Well he played in the first few games last season and did well, then Megson picked him in the two games he was in charge for and again Field did well yet not a sniff under Pardew or Moore which is a disgrace when we're awful in the centre of the pitch.
As for some saying he's not all that, how do we know one way or the other given the lack of decent chances he's getting ?
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Well he played in the first few games last season and did well, then Megson picked him in the two games he was in charge for and again Field did well yet not a sniff under Pardew or Moore which is a disgrace when we're awful in the centre of the pitch.
As for some saying he's not all that, how do we know one way or the other given the lack of decent chances he's getting ?
Don’t get me wrong I’m with the 99% of the fans who want to see him get a run in the team. He looks tidy on the ball whenever I have seen him play. Just seems odd hat he’s not getting any game time especially this season when a lot of us expected to see him starting games here and there. He’s seems lower in the pecking order than ever before with Moore seeming to like Harper more out the two of them.
Genuinely think we should have sent him out on loan till January if we don’t have any plans of using him.
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I think there’s more to the whole Field thing can we know about, maybe he just isn’t good enough? Pulis, Pardew and now Moore aren’t picking him, but a lot of fans seem to hold him as the saviour to our midfield. For why it’s worth, I would prefer to see Harper get some game time in the middle. He he abit more about him.
Right OK. This is how Sam Field was used in the league last season in central midfield. Don't forget he was a 19 year old kid.
Under Pulis
Bournemouth Home W 1-0
Burnley Away W 1-0
Under Megson
Tottenham Away D 1-1
Newcastle Home D 2-2
Under Pardew
Palace Home D 0-0
Pardew then used him wide left at Swansea and Man City if I remember right but I stand corrected on that. The above shows quite clearly that Sam Field was hardly a negative on the team in the Premier League last season. Now I know that's a small sample and you can manipulate stats, of course but given the disastrous season that we had in no way can that record be looked on as a negative. It clearly shows he does not weaken the team and that's in the Premier League a year ago.
Now lets look at the attributes he has.
He is left footed which is ideal for the role he should be playing it creates perfect balance of the two in the middle of the park. He has more legs than Barry or Brunt. He is physically good. I know he's listed as 5'10" but he clearly isn't he's around 6'1". He is better defensively certainly than Brunt. He can tackle, he can head. His biggest attributes though are on the ball. He is calm and composed. He isn't wasteful he will play simple to retain possession when required but he can spot a forward pass and he can exectute it. Long balls, short passes, his range is excellent.
How is this boy NOT what we need alongside Livermore?
Football is about levels but the England set ups have no problem including him and he has showed he can hold his own in the Premier League. He is at the perfect age now to be pushed into the team from his personal point of view and he is exactly what we are crying out for.
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3837 left for this game. Looks set to be the lowest league gate of the season so far. I've no idea how many Bristol City have sold but 19,500 (approx.) sold in home ends.
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Good post . If Field, Harper, Burke, Edwards, and Leko are not actively used during the 6 games in 19 days coming up they may as well give up.
Darren Moore is trying to play safe with the old guard, and they will let him down and cost him his job.
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Good post . If Field, Harper, Burke, Edwards, and Leko are not actively used during the 6 games in 19 days coming up they may as well give up.
Darren Moore is trying to play safe with the old guard, and they will let him down and cost him his job.
Let's hope he's got the nerve to go for it.
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It's obvious why Field isn't getting in the team - because he isn't one of the old boys. Moore, like others before him, selects players based on name and status in the dressing room, and is too scared to drop them (e.g. Livermore, Brunt) in favour of a younger player. Such a waste.
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CB and JM have been a dominant force in the dressing room for many years and it seems DM is pandering to that.
The Board had the chance for a clean break and bring in a new broom management and do a reboot of the club. They chose a compromise which is trying to play football the modern way but with the old guard who are just not up to it.
Darren needs to grow a pair and commit to young blood in certain key positions for the rest of the season. I think Bristol will be a stern test. They will fancy their chances of a win.
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Reckon we will Win this 2-0.
Have to watch out for watkins, brownhill& weimann. All capable of causing us problems
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Reckon we will Win this 2-0.
Have to watch out for watkins, brownhill& weimann. All capable of causing us problems
Our biggest downfall is we cause our own problems, cut that out we win comfortably
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Just looked and it seems as if City have sold around 1,500 so far. There are just over 1200 left in their section. I'd guess a crowd of somewhere between 21,500 and 22,000.
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Just looked and it seems as if City have sold around 1,500 so far. There are just over 1200 left in their section. I'd guess a crowd of somewhere between 21,500 and 22,000.
Wont help its on the box aswell
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If we start with the same lineup as friday i think Bristol City will win this fairly comfortable but in the long run it may be a blessing in disguise.
They are going to be the first team we have played at home this season who will try and get at us a bit instead of sitting back, ie - Bolton and Stoke (i have no idea what QPR's approach was, i am not sure they did either which may of been a problem!)
Bristol City are pretty quick and pass the ball well too, i expect them to win the midfield battle but also play a bit higher up to cause problems to Dawson, Hegazi and Bartleys passing attempts, i dont think they will go gungho as our attacking players will pick them off but i expect them to put a lot more pressure on than other teams so far.
I think we are only a few tweaks away from being a good side, but it may take a defeat, especially at home for those tweaks to be made.
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If we start with the same lineup as friday i think Bristol City will win this fairly comfortable but in the long run it may be a blessing in disguise.
They are going to be the first team we have played at home this season who will try and get at us a bit instead of sitting back, ie - Bolton and Stoke (i have no idea what QPR's approach was, i am not sure they did either which may of been a problem!)
Bristol City are pretty quick and pass the ball well too, i expect them to win the midfield battle but also play a bit higher up to cause problems to Dawson, Hegazi and Bartleys passing attempts, i dont think they will go gungho as our attacking players will pick them off but i expect them to put a lot more pressure on than other teams so far.
I think we are only a few tweaks away from being a good side, but it may take a defeat, especially at home for those tweaks to be made.
If they do play as you suggest I expect we'll beat them easily on the break.
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Barry and Tosin in for Brunt and Bartley at the very least
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CB and JM have been a dominant force in the dressing room for many years and it seems DM is pandering to that.
The Board had the chance for a clean break and bring in a new broom management and do a reboot of the club. They chose a compromise which is trying to play football the modern way but with the old guard who are just not up to it.
Darren needs to grow a pair and commit to young blood in certain key positions for the rest of the season. I think Bristol will be a stern test. They will fancy their chances of a win.
This I think is true. You can just imagine the influence of the likes of Brunt, Morrison, Dawson while the likes of Field and the other youngsters are almost apologetic and submissive to the old guard (you can see that in the Artist in residence show where Field won't speak ahead of Brunt and Foster. At the end of the day Darren Moore will survive or fall on his own decisions. If he lacks the balls to makes changes that will benefit the team he will regret it down the line.
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Barry and Tosin in for Brunt and Bartley at the very least
These are the two changes I would make and I would bring Gibbs back in if he is fit enough.
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If they do play as you suggest I expect we'll beat them easily on the break.
Rowett said he thought the gaps we left at the back could be exploited on the break, maybe Brum did it better than they could. I reckon anyone who tries to go toe to toe with us in an attacking ping pong match is asking for trouble given our pace up front, so let's hope Brizzle do try and play football.
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Johnstone
Adarabioyo Dawson Hegazi
Phillips Livermore Field Gibbs
Barnes
JRod Gayle.
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Johnstone
Adarabioyo Dawson Hegazi
Phillips Livermore Field Gibbs
Barnes
JRod Gayle.
I'd be happy with that, with Harper coming on for Livermore after around 60 minutes if appropriate.
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Quick question regarding young adult tickets (u23)
Do you need any photo id for these tickets?
I bought my daughter (19 Year old) a ticket for the Stoke game and paid full adult price for her you see as I didn't know about this type of ticket.
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I'd be happy with that, with Harper coming on for Livermore after around 60 minutes if appropriate.
At 2 nil up that would make great sence.
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Barry in for Brunt, minimum change don't know what to do with Bartley replace with Tosh but center halves would have to move around or got to back four ???
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:o Big Dave put FIELD in the middle with Hoolahan. Or at least in Yacobs position to help our very dodgy defence.
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Quick question regarding young adult tickets (u23)
Do you need any photo id for these tickets?
I bought my daughter (19 Year old) a ticket for the Stoke game and paid full adult price for her you see as I didn't know about this type of ticket.
Should be OK. You'd be fine actually buying one without ID but you may get an enthusiastic steward on the case if she appears old for her years when coming through the turnstile. If she has photo ID then take it along on the day of the game just in case. NEVER pay full adult price for someone who's in an age category which doesn't apply. My lad's 18 now and still qualified for 'junior' tickets to both Blues and Preston (11-18). As for the Stoke game it was advertised as U23s and students being £15 https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/august/stoke-on-general-sale/ . Always click down the price list if paying online and if over the phone then always double check re the categories. All the best 8) .
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3-4-1-2
Johnstone
Dawson
Adarabiyo
Field
Phillips
Barry
Harper
Gibbs
Barnes
Gayle
Rodriguez
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Johnstone
Adarabioyo Dawson Hegazi
Phillips Livermore Field Gibbs
Barnes
JRod Gayle.
I would go with that aswell, if DM doesn't want to play Field, then pop Barry in there to start.
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Should be OK. You'd be fine actually buying one without ID but you may get an enthusiastic steward on the case if she appears old for her years when coming through the turnstile. If she has photo ID then take it along on the day of the game just in case. NEVER pay full adult price for someone who's in an age category which doesn't apply. My lad's 18 now and still qualified for 'junior' tickets to both Blues and Preston (11-18). As for the Stoke game it was advertised as U23s and students being £15 https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/august/stoke-on-general-sale/ . Always click down the price list if paying online and if over the phone then always double check re the categories. All the best 8) .
Thanks for that Dan. Very helpful :)
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Almost down to a man, we are leaving Bartley out of the team. I do not disagree with this but should we not ask why he currently looks so bad? I know for a fact that he has previously looked very accomplished at this level. I feel he should be dropped but is just one of 3 very nervous looking centre halves, particularly in away games. I therefore think we are not solving the root cause of the problem by just dropping him.
Just my opinion ……….
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Almost down to a man, we are leaving Bartley out of the team. I do not disagree with this but should we not ask why he currently looks so bad? I know for a fact that he has previously looked very accomplished at this level. I feel he should be dropped but is just one of 3 very nervous looking centre halves, particularly in away games. I therefore think we are not solving the root cause of the problem by just dropping him.
Just my opinion ……….
I think its another one of those 'players suit certain systems'. Ill use GMac as an example, put him in a team that just needs to defend and be compact and you are guaranteed a 8/10 performance, put him in a team that presses 20yards higher up the pitch and it might cause him more problems.
Bartley in a defensive compact system I imagine would look solid. At times in the blues game Jota was literally gliding past him. I still don't think Bartley and Hegazi look comfortable together. Cant really give too much praise to Dawson either lets be honest.
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Field was the best player on the pitch by a mile in the 2-2 vs Newcastle. His fall from the radar since is amazing.
I can only imagine as he didn't make the bench on Friday that hes injured though so who knows if he is fit enough for tomorrow night.
One things for sure though, it hasn't really worked so far this season yet so it could be time for a change. We havent played well once in 7 games, even the second half vs QPR was more a matter of them being as bad as anything you've seen at the Hawthorns in 10 years, rather than us being outstanding.
If fit I'd play Field over Brunt. I would also drop J-Rod and give Burke a chance to try and stretch things at home. At the back I'd drop Bartley for Tosin too and put Gibbs back in.
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I think its another one of those 'players suit certain systems'. Ill use GMac as an example, put him in a team that just needs to defend and be compact and you are guaranteed a 8/10 performance, put him in a team that presses 20yards higher up the pitch and it might cause him more problems.
Bartley in a defensive compact system I imagine would look solid. At times in the blues game Jota was literally gliding past him. I still don't think Bartley and Hegazi look comfortable together. Cant really give too much praise to Dawson either lets be honest.
Cant argue with that.....
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I bet it will be the same team as Friday, but with Gibbs coming back in for Townsend. HRK will come on after 70 mins regardless of how the game is playing out, Barry on after 80 mins for either Brunt or Barnes.
Need to be winning games like this at home, but we're so inconsistent I can't predict it at all.
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I probably didnt word it how i meant!
I dont think Bristol City will try and go all out attack against us, i think they will play similar to the Blues but a bit higher up and a bit more tempo and pick us off that way.
They have more quality than the Blues, quite often we gave the ball to Blues without them trying anyway but when Blues did pressure us at the back we looked shakey, i expect Bristol City to do that but better and more often.
I dont think many teams with the exception of leeds (what seen so far) will try and go all out attack vs us as we will beat them, got no doubts about our attacking talents, our problems lie at the other end, yet i think it will only take a few tweaks to sort the problems out, i think we will probably have to get beat before those tweaks are put in place though.
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I wonder if Wes will be on the bench
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Harper, Leko & Edwards are playing tonight in the PL2 team at Aggborough.
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(https://i.imgur.com/8LFLLEq.png)
subs. Myhill, Bartley, Livermore, Field/Harper, Morrison/Hoolahan, Rodriguez, Burke.
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(https://i.imgur.com/8LFLLEq.png)
subs. Myhill, Bartley, Livermore, Field/Harper, Morrison/Hoolahan, Rodriguez, Burke.
cannot argue with that at all
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1-3 I have never seen defending like this and if the same three play again which I think they will City won’t have to do too much for a chance other than put it into our box
We could just as easily win 3 or 4 but I just am not convinced about all this
My god did it get totally ballsed up last year or what
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We'll win comfortably as we have far better players which will tell in our home games, it will have little to do with the management who continue to fail when we are truly tested.
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(https://i.imgur.com/8LFLLEq.png)
subs. Myhill, Bartley, Livermore, Field/Harper, Morrison/Hoolahan, Rodriguez, Burke.
Barry for Brunt would be my only change to this
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Were in 8th position 3 points off 3rd.
There's no pleasing some,what do people expect after what our club,new players,had to reduce wages,doing all the right things to put the club on the safest position in order to protect the club financially so we don't become like some of the teams/clubs who are still struggling after years of constant overspend and debt,joker owners etc etc.
I am proud of what has been achieved so far,so good.
I'm confident were going the right way.
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Were in 8th position 3 points off 3rd.
So not good enough then so far. Top 6 is a minimum requirement. No club in this league has more resources than we do.
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Too many on here thought blues away was a foregone conclusion. I think this will be a very hard game. We need to get back to winning ways mind you.
Will hoolahan be in the group?
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Think this will be a 1-1 draw.
To answer your question above Beechy, listening to DM interview yesterday about the game, he mentions that we can take a good look at Wes' fitness over the next week or so and see how far away he is, I would guess on those comments that he wont be involved tonight, may make the bench the weekend.
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(https://i.imgur.com/m2PMhkR.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/m2PMhkR.jpg)
This is the one!
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This is the one!
Doubt it's 'the one' given Harper had 90 mins with the U23s yesterday.
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Doubt it's 'the one' given Harper had 90 mins with the U23s yesterday.
We all know it won't be the one, but then again not many would select the side our head coach continues to.
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Too many on here thought blues away was a foregone conclusion. I think this will be a very hard game. We need to get back to winning ways mind you.
Will hoolahan be in the group?
That me at the beginning of every game not just the Blues one. ;)
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3,364 remaining now. Bristol have sold just over 1,700 so far. They can pay at the gate but I can't see many doing that. Attendance looks set to be around 22,000.
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Too many on here thought blues away was a foregone conclusion. I think this will be a very hard game. We need to get back to winning ways mind you.
Will hoolahan be in the group?
I never think any match is a foregone conclusion, been following the Albion for too long to ever go there :) However, after the Stoke game I was quietly confident that if the team clicked as in periods against Stoke then Blues would not be able to handle us. As it turns out the performance did mirror the Stoke game, but unfortunately the 20 minutes before half time when Stoke pressed us higher and had our defenders hitting panic buttons and failing to find a colleague with any passes.
If Bristol City's management team watched the Blues game they will know how to completely nullify us and cause panic at the back.....so this week it's been down to Darren Moore and Jones to coach the players how to play around that kind of formation and press and keep their confidence and belief. As well as the back three the chosen midfielders also need to better understand their role in what to do when the defenders are put under that kind of pressure, as against Blues Brunt and Livermore were anonymous which surprised me as I thought JL was immense at times against Stoke. Maybe Barry will start as part of the solution - I just worry about his pace and legs over the 90.
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Well instead of Barry's legs put Fields younger legs into the team.
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Put Livermore and Field in cm and the city kid left side of three with Gibbs wing back keep the rest the same .
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Well instead of Barry's legs put Fields younger legs into the team.
I would love to see Field in there doing that job, but he is not being picked. Three managers out of four have decided they don't see enough in him to be trusted in that role. The one game he was given the shout by Sir GM he looked raw but exciting and I really expected him to push on this season.
I havn't been to the Carabo cup games, just the league, but by all accounts it has been Harper that my mates have suggested is next in line.
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I would love to see Field in there doing that job, but he is not being picked. Three managers out of four have decided they don't see enough in him to be trusted in that role. The one game he was given the shout by Sir GM he looked raw but exciting and I really expected him to push on this season.
I havn't been to the Carabo cup games, just the league, but by all accounts it has been Harper that my mates have suggested is next in line.
I think it was Matt Wilson (E&S) who said DM liked the look of Harper more than Field aswell a few weeks ago. That being said Harper played for the under23s last night so cant imagine he will be starting tonight (not that anyone thought he might be).
I would like to at least see Barry playing in the middle tonight (give Brunt a break). I thought we looked a little more reassured when he came on against Blues and his range of passing was better.
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I think it was Matt Wilson (E&S) who said DM liked the look of Harper more than Field aswell a few weeks ago. That being said Harper played for the under23s last night so cant imagine he will be starting tonight (not that anyone thought he might be).
I would like to at least see Barry playing in the middle tonight (give Brunt a break). I thought we looked a little more reassured when he came on against Blues and his range of passing was better.
I've been no fan of him since his arrival, and he was never the quickest but at least he knows the role and should be adept at creating the space to receive a pass from the back and maybe even provide some leadership.
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Trouble is guys that Barry and Brunty are like two oil tankers trying to turn,far too slow they're constantlygetting caught with the ball and then havnt the pace to win it back,unless they foul the opponent.
We need more speed in that dept.
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Doubt it's 'the one' given Harper had 90 mins with the U23s yesterday.
Maybe being primed to play on Saturday (we can hope)
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Whoever plays CM even if it's Field and Harper we can't afford to be frequently/constantly outnumbered in the middle of the pitch. It dogged us last season and is doing so this.
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If Bristol play a high line, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see one or two long passes tonight. Who better at completing those than Chris Brunt?
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If Bristol play a high line, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see one or two long passes tonight. Who better at completing those than Chris Brunt?
but the ball has to arrive at Brunt, (problem 1)
then he has to have time to look up and attempt to deliver the pass (problem 2)
The pulis answer is miss out midfield
the guardiola answer is to have "footballers" at the back
the only way I can see us playing out from the back is via footballing wing backs who receive the ball from the keeper, Our CH's are simply not good enough distributors. whereas I do think Phillips / Gibbs should be good enough to receive the ball and then bring in the midfield unit
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If Bristol play a high line, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see one or two long passes tonight. Who better at completing those than Chris Brunt?
Barry likely to be just as good. Just a thought but Megson described Field as having the best passing range at the club.
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https://www.skysports.com/football/w-brom-vs-bristol-c/392630. 0-2 according to Prutton
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If Bristol play a high line, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see one or two long passes tonight. Who better at completing those than Chris Brunt?
Not on current form he’s not, apart from 1 sublime through ball against Stoke i’d have to say his passing has been appalling this season. That free kick he took against Blue’s Friday where he clipped it in and there wasn’t an Albion player within 20 yards was truly awful.
If Dave doesn’t make any changes tonight I think questions will start to be asked about his tactical nous. It’s clear Brunt isnt working in midfield and so far the defence has conceded in every game, he can’t keep trotting the same lineup out expecting something different is going to happen. Field & Barry need to be given a chance at cm to see if they can improve the team. Tosin needs to come in for Bartley who’s been a liability for a good few weeks now also.
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Doubt it's 'the one' given Harper had 90 mins with the U23s yesterday.
**that I think we should play ::)
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(https://i.imgur.com/8LFLLEq.png)
subs. Myhill, Bartley, Livermore, Field/Harper, Morrison/Hoolahan, Rodriguez, Burke.
Do like the look of this, and is the formation Belguim used in the WC with the two number 10's.
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Do like the look of this, and is the formation Belguim used in the WC with the two number 10's.
With the onus on the Morrison/Hoolahan choice to provide the 3rd man in CM when we are under the cosh....umm wonder if either of them is deemed match fit ?
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Johnstone
Dawson Bartley Hegazi Gibbs
Livermore Barry
Phillips Morrison Barnes
Gayle
I believe we should be playing 4-2-3-1 in this league and the players we have at our disposal. I know this is unlikely given Moore & Jones's preference for the 3 centre backs but I just don't think we have the right players for it. Hope I get proved wrong of course.
as many have mentioned above Field should be getting in the team, I have not got him in the team above as he has not played all season but really want him to be given a run out in the league.
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I know you can say this before 90% of the games we'll play this season but we really should be winning this. Three points is the bare minimum and a clean sheet would be tremendous.
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(https://i.imgur.com/8LFLLEq.png)
subs. Myhill, Bartley, Livermore, Field/Harper, Morrison/Hoolahan, Rodriguez, Burke.
Swap Brunt for Livermore and you're there.
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I agree with you Dave but as a team Bristol are playing well.
I'm no good at forecasting scores,especially with the baggies,but a win for us is OK by me and while Dave and Jonesy are getting to grips with our squad,I don't really care how.
Were only a few games in,plenty of time yet,we are picking up points don't forget.
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I agree with you Dave but as a team Bristol are playing well.
I'm no good at forecasting scores,especially with the baggies,but a win for us is OK by me and while Dave and Jonesy are getting to grips with our squad,I don't really care how.
Were only a few games in,plenty of time yet,we are picking up points don't forget.
We've already lost a couple, teams wanting to win the league typically lose 10/11 - last year Wolves lost seven. It doesn't give us a lot of wiggle room for the remainder of the season if we stuff it up tonight. Not to mention the fact we've already thrown away three points from the Bolton game which is pretty much as close to a free hit as you can get. Points dropped at home against any side in this league will come back to haunt us, even more so when you consider that away from home we can't pass, tackle, score or defend.
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Swap Brunt for Livermore and you're there.
I'd rather s**t in my hand and clap...
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I'd rather s**t in my hand and clap...
I thought you might. He should be great in that role dropping to collect the ball and spraying passes but he just isn't. The fact he seems (at the minute) unable to carry out his principle role means you notice his other deficiencies even more. He got beaten in a leg race on Friday night when he had a 15-20 yard head start. I'm no massive fan of Livermore but at least he can move and tackle a bit.
We looked miles better when Barry came on for Brunt.
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For me Brunt has to be dropped along with Bartley
so for me
Johnstone
Dawson Hegazi Adarabioyo
Phillips Livermore Field Gibbs
Barnes
J-Rod Gayle
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Not yet,but we will improve as we progress the season and remember we have the January sales.
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Bristol City are a very good side at this level even though they lost 2 of their best players in the summer...I exoect a hard game tonight and they are going well too
But I still expect us to win especially at home
2/3-1 I reckon as i expect us to concede aswell
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Score draw for me..
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Evening chaps.
Should be a good game, reckon both teams will score- Gayle is immense at this level, but IMO your defense is your weak area and we have some decent options going forward (even if they aren't 'names').
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Think we will win comfortably with big GB name on the team sheet.
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Barry in for Brunt and Gibbs for Townsend.
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Barry in for Brunt. Left back dropped completely.
Bartley incredibly lucky to survive.
Come on you Baggies
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Disappointed to see that Barry starts rather than Field.
A bench with Mears and Robson-Kanu on is pretty poor too - not a sign of a promotion-seeking team.
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Disappointed to see that Barry starts rather than Field.
A bench with Mears and Robson-Kanu on is pretty poor too.
Yep a pretty poor bench with only hrk as a forward sub
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Yep a pretty poor bench with only hrk as a forward sub
Another reason to play Gayle up front on his own.
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Another reason to play Gayle up front on his own.
Agreed. Rodriguez is a decent striker but doesn't add much playing in the number 10 role - we should be selecting a midfielder instead, which would help ensure we win the midfield battle.
Even still, Burke would offer more from the bench than HRK - but he's out of the squad...
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Starting XI is creeping in the right direction, but there is no way Mears should be on the bench ahead of Burke, Edwards or Leko. No pace to bring on whatsoever, it's not like he even brings Mears on and switches to a back 4 when needed.
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Pace is a real threat in the championship and we have none on the bench. ???
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Pace is a real threat in the championship and we have none on the bench. ???
Ah yes! But he's duty bound to bring Brunty on at some stage! :D ;D
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No one selected Bartley , was it in hope
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Live on the red button via Sky football, this happens every weekday game so seems to make a mockery of iFollow in the uk.
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Live on the red button via Sky football, this happens every weekday game so seems to make a mockery of iFollow in the uk.
You can't get I follow in the uk or can you
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Live on the red button via Sky football, this happens every weekday game so seems to make a mockery of iFollow in the uk.
Unless you aren’t subscribed to sky of course, like me
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You can't get I follow in the uk or can you
Yes you can with the exception of Saturday 3pms and any featured game live on Sky.
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Yes you can with the exception of Saturday 3pms and any featured game live on Sky.
Oh
I see what he is saying then
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City should be ahead inside 15 seconds.
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Brizzle two shots on target already
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Slow start is an understatement.
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Terrible from us.
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Still half asleep. All over us and could quite easily be ahead already
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Have we got ANY defence?
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Decent chance for Rodriguez.
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christ, looks like a long evening if this carries on
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Their strip reminds me of a boiled sweet
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Are we allowed to play in their half?
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Centre backs getting us in trouble again. Brunt's fault for not showing though surely...
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Our defence is awful
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how can we still be so bad at taking throw ins
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Sam man of the match already
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Johnstone has already made FOUR saves.
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Jesus our defence is all over the place. What is going on?
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Under the cosh...We are not plying at all.
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This formation isn't working for us. Should be going to 4-2-3-1 with Dawson at right back.
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Going to be a long night..... :o
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4 shots on target from them !!!
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3 at the back clearly does not work for this side, it just increases the chances for error from our defence and the defensive midfielders aren't good enough to dominate the midfield
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Yet another team has figured us out within 5 minutes. Close down our centre backs while theyre trying to tap it around and we can't get out
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Their strip reminds me of a boiled sweet
Beautiful innit?
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We're not coping with Bristol City's press at all. Not impressed.
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There is absolutely no cohesion in the team
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See Barry's range of passing has sorted everything out...
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Hegazi horror show so far, Johnson has been excellent, a great save within 15 seconds. Shambles at the back, same as Norwich, Birmingham etc.
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Hegazi horror show so far, Johnson has been excellent, a great save within 15 seconds. Shambles at the back, same as Norwich, Birmingham etc.
Midfielders fault :D
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Penalty Albion. How did we miss the open goal though.
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Can anybody head over to the woodman and point me in the direction of where i may view this game...
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We've tried to radically change the style of football (which I am happy about), while keeping largely the same personnel as last year (not happy about) - which was never going to work.
We needed wholesale overhaul (which Dean Smith may have done), but Moore is loyal to the same old faces to the detriment of our club.
Predictably, it hasn't worked.
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See Barry's range of passing has sorted everything out...
Bristol actually look like a decent football team, which isn't helping as we've been defending like keystone cops against awful teams. But we're not missing out on Brunt passing the ball the opposition and flailing his arms around.
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Penalty. Got away with that miss!
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1 nil
JRod (pen)
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Might settle us down now
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Any team knows that all they have to do is block passing routes into midfield from our defenders and they will be given the chances from our own mistakes. Its awful to watch as you know its going to happen.
No cohesion between the 3 centre backs either.
Change it now
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Who missed that open goal
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Good penalty that
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Who missed that open goal
Thought it was Livermore but not sure.
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Midfielders fault :D
Not bitter about Brunt being dropped then :o
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Very good refereeing, cant argue with the penalty decison, sadly.
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Who missed that open goal
Was it JRod? It's a pretty awful camera angle on the red button on my phone and no replays!
Definitely wasn't Livermore, here played Gayle in for the initial chance
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Was it JRod? It's a pretty awful camera angle on the red button on my phone and no replays!
Definitely wasn't Livermore, here played Gayle in for the initial chance
It was Barnes who's shot was saved at the end.
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Thought it was Livermore but not sure.
I was wondering that, looked like Barnes?
Very good penalty from J-Rod, all he seems to do these days, is score penalties won for him by Gayle. Imagine if Gayle took his own pens?
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Not bitter about Brunt being dropped then :o
No but it's clearly not the fault of the midfield despite Brunt being blamed for the entire seasons ills.
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Oh well red button is better than nowt I suppose
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Match Choice one sky is awful...how come it’s not HD >:(
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No but it's clearly not the fault of the midfield despite Brunt being blamed for the entire seasons ills.
Brunt's not at fault for the defence going awol but he's not been much use either. Shocking passing and rate of basic mistakes from him. Had more than a fair chance to get some form so can't complain now Barry gets a go.
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2 nil. Brilliant from Barnes and Gayle.
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2-nil Gayle
That was a flowing move
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2-0 easy then
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Great goal, Barnes runs through the lines, well timed pass to Gayle who as always intelligent movement and composed finish. If only we had him last season.
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Talk about a flattering scorline , our defence is just the pitts
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Barnes is a very good player. Held off a couple of challenges there. Special mention to the quick and accurate throw out from Sam too. Gayle with a very calm finish.
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:(
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2-0 get in.
We will concede plenty this season but we'll score a fair few as well. This is like the Mowbray and Ossie days. ;D
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Still not confident thought this will be a smooth easy win - Bristol could easily score given how open we are at the back. They have had 7 attempts & 5 on target in 25 minutes.
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:(
Your playing well mate , I wouldn't loose heart playing against our defence
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3-nil J-Rod
This could be a cricket score
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great play by Johnstone, Barnes and Gayle for that goal.
No doubt we can score goals, still worried about the back though!
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3 nil. Fantastic ball by Gibbs. Barnes to JRod. We're fantastic on the counter. Bristol played right into our hands.
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The most freak result so far
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Barnes showed a toughness in the build up which has been missing in the earlier games
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Some of our attacking play and inter passing has been brilliant
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Talk about a flattering scorline , our defence is just the pitts
3-0, Barnes made it again. Crazy match. J-Rod has got a goal from open play. We have been clinical. Bristol though have played quite well. We've had 4 attacks and scored 3 goals.
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3-0. Another move started from the goalkeeper who came and caught a cross too. Barnes is some player, put it on a plate.
Great tactics by Big Dave and the coaches, clearly know Bristol are vulnerable when we get the ball out quickly from the keeper.
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Their high press early on has created so much space for us tonight
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Johnson's best game of the season so far. Fantastic save within 15 seconds to stop Bristol scoring, 2/3 other solid saves and then he came off his line, collected a cross and started the move for the third. Much more like it from him. Still seems crazy we are 3-0 up. Probably need a fourth knowing our defence.
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Yet a few pages ago people were Slagging off amazing what 3 goals can do As they say Attack is the best form of Defence
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Their high press early on has created so much space for us tonight
Yep, and the goals must really have rocked them too. Need to keep at them now
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Yet a few pages ago people were Slagging off amazing what 3 goals can do As they say Attack is the best form of Defence
To be fair we were awful for the first 8 minutes or so and Bristol could have easily been 2 up themselves.
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This is bizarre - we've been genuinely awful in our own half, and could have easily conceded 3 ourselves - yet we find ourselves 3-0 up.
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On a work trip with dodgy wi-fi in the hotel pub, but BOING BOING!
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This is bizarre - we've been genuinely awful in our own half, and could have easily conceded 3 ourselves - yet we find ourselves 3-0 up.
I did say freaky
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So close from Barnes. Gayle incredibly lively
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What a difference having quality finishing makes :D
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Will we manage a clean sheet lol
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“It’s a funny old game Saintâ€
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Oh don't get me hopes up With a Clean sheet ;)
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Will we manage a clean sheet lol
Not a chance ;D
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Kicking Barnes everywhere now.
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The most freak result so far
Has the game ended early?
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Stats so far:
WBA / BC
Shots: 9 /10
Shots on target: 6/5
Shooting accuracy: 67% / 50%
Passes: 183 / 176
Passing accuracy: 76% / 76%
All fairly even save for the once stat that counts.
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Called it in the pre match thread ;) . Wish every team would adopt a high press against us.
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Looking good going forward, could be another QPR but tbf lads, this is Albion, hope we don't find a way to chuff it up!
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Think this game is what they mean when they say 'goals change games'. ;D
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First 10 mins were awful. Goal settled us. We look an absolute threat going forward. 3 superb passes for the goals, keepers throw out, Gibbs down the line, and Livermore winning the ball and crossing it early.
Bristol look a decent side to be fair, a couple of good players but they don't have Barnes or Gayle (neither do we lol).
Defence is too shaky still but improved as the half went on. The problem is theyre too far apart when they have the ball. A pass across the back takes so long the opponents have time to sort themselves out or press. Then if we lose possession cheaply we have 1 or 2 out of the game. They need to get more narrow.
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it ay dull is it. just how football should be.
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Bristol the best side we have played this season , how bizarre
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Good chance to bring on Field and also Mears to rest Philips if we hold on the lead after 60 mins.
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Bristol the best side we have played this season , how bizarre
They're not as good as Boro or Forest.
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Quote from the Bristol City forum that made me laugh: "Prior to the goals I though we were playing Weston-Super-Mare not West Brom." Also noticed one of their posters has a picture of Super Bob in a Bristol top. Forgot he was a legend for them as well.
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Also noticed one of their posters has a picture of Super Bob in a Bristol top. Forgot he was a legend for them as well.
Shame he's a Baggie eh? ;)
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They're not as good as Boro or Forest.
Attacking wise I meant
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We're winning this game in spite of our style and tactics, and due to the quality of our players - clinical finishing from Gayle and Rodriguez.
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Gayle should make it 4 there. Good play by Hegazi to find Barnes.
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Dreadful Barry.
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They score it's game on
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Why am I biting ones nails
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Why am I biting ones nails
No idea. This comfortable.
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Why am I biting ones nails
I'm pretty confident but can never say never with our defence.
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Maybe it's cause of the clean sheet thingy
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Its a seriously poor atmosphere tonight
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Clean sheet?
I f I was lying in bed, I wouldn't have a clean sheet.
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We need a forth goal before Bristol score. Don't want them to get back into it.
Johnstones kicking is poor. What is it with us and poor distribution from the back?
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3-1 it begins
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Absolutely tosh at the back
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Well...3-1 now just as i typed that about scoring before they do
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''Tis why I bite ones nails
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Take it back. 4-1!
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Hilariously static defending gifts BC a tap-in. Second half we've been sat deep playing for time. Hopefully we'll push up the pitch now. If we are not positive we could throw this away easily enough.
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It begins! :)
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What a goal that is
Harvey Barnes
4-1
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4-1 Barnes great finish.
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Haha we're just playing with them... 4-1 now ;D
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Great play from Gayle and superb finish from Barnes. Relief. Weight of pass from Gayle was superb, matched by the finish.
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Great work from Gayle that is to win the ball back and play it to Barnes. Both players really have it all
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Just as I was about to put a few quid on 3-3...I love this league.
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As it stands we are 3rd in the league ...with most goals scored. 4-1 up enjoy it lads.
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As it stands we are 3rd in the league ...with most goals scored. 4-1 up enjoy it lads.
If Ipswich nick a winner against Brentford we're 2nd!
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No clean sheet yet again.
DM has to sort our defence out.
Still winning, so what do I know?
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It begins! :)
It ends.
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4-1 up at home - surely time to give Field some game time?
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Thats a great goal by the Bristol lad
4-2
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4-2. Need to be closing him down there
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4-2, more awful defending, watched the bristol player size it up and bend it in. Hegazi showed him across the face of the goal and we got punished. Wonder what McCauley makes of this horror show we put on at the back every week.
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Well we wanted rid of Pulisball lol.
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It ends.
It begins again!
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Dawson as bad on the ball as ever.
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Really gifting them chances now
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Well we wanted rid of Pulisball lol.
We didn't want the HOOF part.
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City made all 3 changes. Big DM sitting on his.
Attack = amazing, defence woeful.
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Dawson as bad on the ball as ever.
Managed to take a perfectly controlled position and turn it into a defensive panic!
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Dawson as bad on the ball as ever.
What about Hegazi for their goal?
Dawson is only defender who can actually attack the ball. Bartley and Hegazi are awol most of the time.
Hoolahan coming on.
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Well we wanted rid of Pulisball lol.
Well exactly. I'm enthralled by our season so far. I'm actually fully interested for the first time in several years. Even if we totally eff it up now...
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Hate to say it, but maybe it's time to pull the wing backs back a bit now
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36 year old (free agent til last week) Hoolahan comes on before Field. Moore doesn't care about our future - loves the veterans.
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Sky's red button has just gone down for me >:(
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We're hanging on, stuck in our own box inviting pressure. Common sense, we need to push up the pitch and get some possession.
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What about Hegazi for their goal?
Dawson is only defender who can actually attack the ball. Bartley and Hegazi are awol most of the time.
Hoolahan coming on.
Hegazi is the only one with any composure. Vital if we're going to persist playing out.
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Sky Sports has gone down completely now
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Bristol miss a sitter, the defending this season beggars belief.
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Sky Sports has gone down completely now
Still fine for me on the mobile app
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Got it on ifollow, decent tbf.
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The defence is a shambles....complete and utter
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Kanu on ffs
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Hegazi is the only one with any composure. Vital if we're going to persist playing out.
Is that why he is so static when he should be attacking crosses? He might be able to pass the ball alright but his actual defending, positional play, decision making and concentration is shocking.
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Kanu on ffs
He'll score...
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If Gayle had played for BC this evening we'd have lost this comfortably. He is half our team, have to keep him fit.
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Robson-Kanu on, yet still no Field. Wouldn't blame him if he wants out come January.
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Worst defence for 20 years , Bristol never say die. Johnstone man of the match
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Worst defence for 20 years , Bristol never say die. Johnstone man of the match
Barnes by a mile
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Field on the field at last
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Bristol have played us off the park
We have blown them away in a 15 minute spell
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Barnes & Gayle joint MOM for me. Rest of the team average save for our GK played well. Sam Field gets 2 minutes. We're still looking ropey.
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Nah my vote goes to Johnston , they should have been well up
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Bristol have played us off the park
We have blown them away in a 15 minute spell
Some merit in that. We seem to be winning games in spite of the team selection and formation. With this 3-5-2 we are leaving massive gaps across our backline for the opposition, easy for them to get into the box and in-behind. The defending this season shows how good a job Yacob did at protecting the defence. We'd romp this league with him sitting in front of the centre backs.
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Nah my vote goes to Johnston , they should have been well up
To be fair, I'd expect him to make all of the saves he's made tonight. Barnes has been the match winner for me
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Calling it a night, so assuming the score doesnt change.
Cant complain really, WBA blew us away for 15 minutes where we had a defensive nightmare, but with players like Gayle and Rodriguez you cannot afford to be so sloppy.
Despite this loss, not partciularly unhappy with our performance, we created plenty and paid the price for not being clinical.
No complaints about your penalty at all, perhaps we shpuld have had one when Weimann was dragged to the ground around 83-84 minutes in.
With your attacking line I think you should be right up there, but that defense needs sorting out if you're to go up.
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Job done. Great win. Look so dangerous going forward, sometimes a bit shaky still at the back but that’s expected.
Thought Barry played well in the middle, Wes looked good when he came on. Barnes again was the difference, quality player.
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Think Bristol will be up there after watching them tonight...good luck for the season
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Calling it a night, so assuming the score doesnt change.
Cant complain really, WBA blew us away for 15 minutes where we had a defensive nightmare, but with players like Gayle and Rodriguez you cannot afford to be so sloppy.
Despite this loss, not partciularly unhappy with our performance, we created plenty and paid the price for not being clinical.
No complaints about your penalty at all, perhaps we shpuld have had one when Weimann was dragged to the ground around 83-84 minutes in.
With your attacking line I think you should be right up there, but that defense needs sorting out if you're to go up.
Fair comments mate. Also expect, based on tonight, BC to be up towards the top 6 at the end of the season. All the best this season.
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3rd in table, most goals scored. ..We aint perfect but it's better than we have had for years. Well done lads.
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We can blow teams away when we want to
that defence is awful though...so ropey, we are going to concede every game we need to find a balance
Got to give Bristol some credit though thought they played some lovely stuff, created chances and possibly should hav gotten something out of the game
Well done to Barry tonight and though Hoolahan looked very good on the ball when he came on
Barnes MOTM for me
Good win, Job done
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In the final third we are dangerous and Barnes and Gayle are as good as anything in this league.
However the rest just isn’t getting any better. Outplayed for much of the game and still we haven’t had a good team performance this season. The defence is a shambles and so is the majority of what we do in the middle. I’m not believing in the process at the moment because it’s not improving. It’s one thing sticking to principles but you have to accept when your resources aren’t good enough to do it.
We won’t go up without dramatic improvement, even if we do have one of the best squads in the league, and we simply do. I also appreciate it takes time to change, but how long? Plus if that’s true and we did go up, we would need to change again because we will get slaughtered playing like this and neither our budget or recent recruitment suggests we would get the players to play like this at a higher level
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It's entertaining and nerve-wracking but most importantly it's fun watching us again.
That said i'd love us to sort it out at the back! The tippy-tappy nervous passing that 80% of the time results in one of the back 3 hoofing it or giving it away is very frustrating though as they are all pretty poor at that, Hegazi seems the only one with any composure.
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Front players show their qualities but the back look shaky again and again.
It's good to see Field get his chance finally.
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Sort the defence our and we get promotion/win the league.
We have scored 4 at home and I'm still relieved that we got over the line with 3 points.
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Gibbs looks shaky defensively, that sub gave him the runaround. Bartley is terrifying if he's not giving the ball away he's fouling players constantly, he wouldn't have a career if VAR was introduced.
Phillips looks class and the middle was better with Barry.
Livermore looked good again.
Barnes and Gayle are absolute key players for us.
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Gibbs looks shaky defensively, that sub gave him the runaround. Bartley is terrifying if he's not giving the ball away he's fouling players constantly, he wouldn't have a career if VAR was introduced.
Phillips looks class and the middle was better with Barry.
Livermore looked good again.
Barnes and Gayle are absolute key players for us.
If Barry is better and Livermore is good, how can we be dominated by Bristol City? We aren’t winning the middle so they neither can be doing that well
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Played a very good team and smashed them. After years of drab football we are delivering exciting football using a new system that has only been beaten once. Given we have so much room for improvement I’m thrilled with where we are at. Such a shame some on this forum are desperate to be negative.
Onwards and upwards.
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Bristol City are easily the best side we have played in the league so far. They blew us away the first 20 mins and we should have been 2 or 3 goals down. The timing of the penalty and our counter attacks afterwards killed Bristol first half, after the break more of the same all brsitol we let them back into the game then upped a gear and scored again. Then again all Bristol with Albion relying on counter attacks.
Considering we have scored 4 tonight I can't believe how nervous I have been all game. Difference really tonight was a slice of luck and our superior finishing.
Harvey Barnes was our man of the match today. The defence still looked a disaster. The strikers we carried for most of the game and they just put away the chances they had. Midfield still overun even with Barry in there.
Positives is we have goals in us. Barnes was awesome, hoolahan looked tidy when he came on, we saw Sam field. 3 points and another home win. Hopefully we can follow this up with another 3 points and a clean sheet Saturday.
Despite some of my criticisms I am still a very happy baggie. COYB
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If Barry is better and Livermore is good, how can we be dominated by Bristol City? We aren’t winning the middle so they neither can be doing that well
We won't win the middle while we are outnumbered in there. Barnes is an exceptional very attacking number 10 but he's not an AM so we are a 2 man CM unit. Barry did well but Field should have replaced him 10 minutes earlier to give us more legs at the end against a very mobile team.
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An easy win on paper, but at 3-1 and 4-2 I was sweating quite a lot ::)
Overall a typical Moore display; great in attack but woeful at defending. As has been said in here already, sort the defence out and we get promotion; of course that is quite a big ask.
The usual attacking suspects deserve the credit, but I also thought Barry did well today, at least a lot better than Brunt has done and I think he should be starting for the short-term future at least.
On a final note, I thought Hoolahan looked decent and very technical. I think he may do better than a lot our fans expect from him as he still has something to offer.
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We won't win the middle while we are outnumbered in there. Barnes is an exceptional very attacking number 10 but he's not an AM so we are a 2 man CM unit. Barry did well but Field should have replaced him 10 minutes earlier to give us more legs at the end against a very mobile team.
We shouldn’t be outnumbered there. We have two strikers on the pitch so that occupies the centre backs, even if a side has three central midfields one has to track Barnes.
They look outnumbered because they are playing badly.
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elation and despair is in order watching us. it's exciting but still puzzled that Moore a defender himself doesn't seem able to get our defence right. has a team got promoted with such a shaky backline? would like to see us try 4 at the back because I think we'd still have a huge threat upfront but tighten up at the back especially in away games.
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Our superior quality won it for us, we were outplayed for the most part though which was extremely concerning and I continue to have little or no faith in our management team as if we didn’t have the attacking players we have we’d be in serious trouble. Not sure what they do on the training ground but defensively it’s an absolute shambles
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Positives we scored 4 and look like we could comfortably score that every game if we give the front 3 good service. Barnes was outstanding, Gayle took his chances well I thought Barry, Livermore & Phillips all had good games.
The defending however good god, iv seen better from Sunday league teams. All 3 of them are all over the show and cannot play in a back 3. Time and again we got beat at the front post, we could have been 3 down in the first 5 minutes, one ball over the top and we were beat time every time, the amount of time the guy had for the second goal was embarrassing and we were left defending 1 - 1 far too many times. You feel with the current set up we are going to have to score 4 every game to give ourselves a chance of getting points currently.
I’m still not convinced with Dave either, he should have countered what Bristol we’re doing by bringing another midfielder on far sooner than he did, it was clear they were starting to overload us going forward and he was far too slow to react, Field or Wes should have been on around 65 minutes to give us more legs in midfield and we could have taken control of possession. The changes were made 15 minutes too late and had Bristol scored a 3rd which really they should have there’s not much doubt in my mind they would have gone on to equalise.
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Tonight took me back to the days when Johnny Giles was our manager in that he set his team up to score more goals than we let in, HAPPY DAYS ;) :D
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Easily the best team we have played so far, we are so clinical which is pleasing and rewarding but quite possibly the worst defence in 20 years. Sort the defence out head coach defender please
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We shouldn’t be outnumbered there. We have two strikers on the pitch so that occupies the centre backs, even if a side has three central midfields one has to track Barnes.
They look outnumbered because they are playing badly.
They don't have to track Barnes when they have the ball. That's the point, Barnes contributes loads offensively but not when the other side has the ball ...it doesn't all work as rigidly as you suggest.
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Great to get three points, devastating in attack but woeful in defence Midfield looked better with Barry instead of Brunt. Substitutions were better with Wes and Sam but thought Barnes was blowing and should have been given rest and Gayle to be kept on till end as HRK is meh
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They don't have to track Barnes when they have the ball. That's the point, Barnes contributes loads offensively but not when the other side has the ball ...it doesn't all work as rigidly as you suggest.
I know it doesn’t. However when we don’t have the ball we should have 3-2-2 if you take the front three out the game, so we still shouldn’t be outnumbered.
Bar QPR, have we controlled a game once? A squad like ours should be doing it more than once or twice in 8 games
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would like to see Livermore support Philips more when his run's down the wing get blocked & he looks inside he is nowhere near him thus Phillips has to pass backwards far to often.
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Midfield much better although I don't think Field did too much to impress when he came on but Barry and Livermore much better than what we've seen recently, Hoolahan did okay when he came on but I think Barnes was shattered so maybe he should have made way.
Defensively however we are not at it, something needs changing as the three at the back cannot play this way whether personnel or slight adjustment something needs changing.
Mention for Johnstone on the two goals his quick play sled to, something we've lacked in recent years is speed to start from the back, he did iot twice tonight and when we move forward quickly like that we have every chance of scoring
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Harvey Barnes was outstanding, what a player this kid is.
You can't say it's boring at the Albion these days that's for sure. After the first ten minutes I thought we were going to get hammered but the penalty came at just the right time for us. Barnes then took over for us for the next twenty minutes or so and baring an absolute collapse the game was won at half time. Second half City had to gamble we didn't and we were always going to collect the points.
AT LAST we got to see Sam Field albeit as a very late sub for Barry but at least Barry is an upgrade on Brunt in central midfield.
Hoolahan looked neat and tidy when he came on.
Three points, I'm happy.
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Easily the best team we have played so far, we are so clinical which is pleasing and rewarding but quite possibly the worst defence in 20 years. Sort the defence out head coach defender please
:D we were like that in the 1960s we would score 5 but let 4 in. We had a lot of games 4-4,4-3,5-3 in those days. I guess the old Brazilian style score more than you let in....makes exciting football. ;D
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Works at home, but away from home we have already shown that we need to change it as it will not yield the same results.
We can't let a team have 23 shots on our goal at home again. Shocking defensively.
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Exhilarating when it goes right, hell yes! Terrifying when it is going wrong, indeed! But what entertainment they are putting on at the moment. This is a difficult system to play well and at times it makes decent pro's look like complete mugs; but keep at it Albion. I'm sure that Dawson and Bartley would be happier playing in a nice safe Pullisball back 4 getting rid at every opportunity, covered by 4 further defensive midfielders, but I for one am glad they are not. As much as the moments of panic and misplaced passes are heart stopping, when they do beat the press and set up our front players it is fantastic to watch.
This team is set up to attack first and foremost. Barry and Livermore were at times outstanding tonight, but they do get overrun at times because Barnes does not exhaust himself tracking every run and even in the last 10 minutes Phillips was still playing past the half way line rather than staying back and tucking in.
In regards to control, well for me although we are desperately trying to play on the deck and through the park I don't actually see us as a team made for tippy tappying the ball around as this is when we get in trouble- at our best our play it is slick and quick, one touch passing designed to beat a man/press and release the front players.
This is my boy's 3rd season at the Albion and I have never seen him so exited about going to the football, even more so than when we were watching the glamour pusses of the Premier League. I felt a strange sense of satisfaction seeing him go through the torture of watching us give the ball away again and again in a dangerous position to be followed by the sense of relief at the full time whistle and verbal onslaught that followed in adulation of Harvey Barnes.
Yes there are problems at the back - but even the top sides struggle to find ball playing centre halves even when they can splash £30/40 million (yes you Mr Mourinho) and Klopp ended up paying over £70m for the player TP rejected. And yes this team would probably get trampled in the Premier League - I just can't think that far ahead. But blimey it feels good to be a Baggy again on a night like tonight! After last year when the fire just went out, I'm back looking forward to match day with a sense of excitement (and trepidation) and for that Darren Moore I will be forever grateful regardless of this seasons outcome.
COYB
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Let the revisionism begin, we've been thoroughly outplayed tonight, the midfield was neither better or worse with Barry in there as opposed to Brunt we got swamped again and the defenders still didn't pass into Barry in midfield despite him offering and taking up the same positions Brunt does.
Quite simply we won so comfortably because Harvey Barnes turned up tonight (he didn't last Friday) and in him, Gayle, Phillips and Gibbs we've got 4 players who are either at the very top ability bracket for the division, or are too good for it.
Thought Hegazi was the pick of the back 3, with Johnstone showing a lot more assertiveness in goal and some quick thinking. Despite the brace Rodriguez continues to flatter to deceive. I continue to be puzzled by the HRK substitute appearances despite the 2 goals he's scored this season.
All that said a great 3 points and up to 3rd, and in the manner I predicted in the pre match chat. Viva Big Dave. ;D
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Let the revisionism begin, we've been thoroughly outplayed tonight, the midfield was neither better or worse with Barry in there as opposed to Brunt we got swamped again and the defenders still didn't pass into Barry in midfield despite him offering and taking up the same positions Brunt does.
Quite simply we won so comfortably because Harvey Barnes turned up tonight (he didn't last Friday) and in him, Gayle, Phillips and Gibbs we've got 4 players who are either at the very top ability bracket for the division, or are too good for it.
Thought Hegazi was the pick of the back 3, with Johnstone showing a lot more assertiveness in goal and some quick thinking. Despite the brace Rodriguez continues to flatter to deceive. I continue to be puzzled by the HRK substitute appearances despite the 2 goals he's scored this season.
All that said a great 3 points and up to 3rd, and in the manner I predicted in the pre match chat. Viva Big Dave. ;D
I thought Gareth Barry was exceptional tonight until he tired around the 55 minute mark. It's only his first start though and he will get fitter.
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The advantage (?) of watching it on the TV, is that we can see that our defence has no shape and they get sucked out of position too often.
DM and his coaching staff should look at this in fine detail.
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Give me this nail biting rollercoaster bang bang bang football everytime over the sterile rubbish we've been watching for the last few years.
We wanted entertainment well here it is :D
My only fear is that we get promoted and end up back at square one.
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Echo the thoughts of most, we are exciting to watch and won because the quality of our forward and wide players going forward was better. Word on the defence, it does and will continue to be exposed playing like this. Our wing-backs play pretty high and our midfield isn't that mobile to always sweep up the pieces. For me, it looks like the changes will have to be personnel; all our centre backs are pretty slow which makes it hard for them to cover the large spaces we are leaving in front and around them. I've previously advocated Barry in the back 3 to help us pass the ball out from the back but I think him in the back 3 would also leave us with the same problems in terms of the mobility of the guys back there. Perhaps Adarabioyo coming in for Bartley in the first instance would be an improvement.
Overall though, although I am not entirely confident in us at the minute, I am enjoying watching us and am happy with Big Dave and hopeful that he'll get it right eventually.
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Let the revisionism begin, we've been thoroughly outplayed tonight, the midfield was neither better or worse with Barry in there as opposed to Brunt we got swamped again and the defenders still didn't pass into Barry in midfield despite him offering and taking up the same positions Brunt does.
Quite simply we won so comfortably because Harvey Barnes turned up tonight (he didn't last Friday) and in him, Gayle, Phillips and Gibbs we've got 4 players who are either at the very top ability bracket for the division, or are too good for it.
Thought Hegazi was the pick of the back 3, with Johnstone showing a lot more assertiveness in goal and some quick thinking. Despite the brace Rodriguez continues to flatter to deceive. I continue to be puzzled by the HRK substitute appearances despite the 2 goals he's scored this season.
All that said a great 3 points and up to 3rd, and in the manner I predicted in the pre match chat. Viva Big Dave. ;D
I disagree with some of that - but agree that the defence needs tightening ASAP.
For me, Barry was a clear improvement on Brunt, especially in the latter stages of the game when it needed slowing down and he used a bit of experience/Pulis-cynicism and a bit of dirty work to see it out.
Regarding Rodriguez, I think he doesn't get much support at times but he's the second top scorer for a reason in this league; he scores goals and they win games.
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The advantage (?) of watching it on the TV, is that we can see that our defence has no shape and they get sucked out of position too often.
DM and his coaching staff should look at this in fine detail.
The three at the back don't seem to communicate very well really, maybe they'll get better? Hegazi is a non-english speaker who probably isn't used to the frantic pace, Bartley is new to the club, and Dawson's spent most of the last four years at RB and has barely got over the sulks from the look of it. Also the WBs are obviously making attack a priority, and we're picking pretty much 3 out and out attackers so the midfields a bit hollow in front of them. In spite of all this, you'd have thought they'd have worked things out a bit better than they have so far.
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Interesting that some feel our attacking ability is purely down to the quality of the players and nowt to do with coaching or tactics but the fragility of the defence is all down to the management.
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The advantage (?) of watching it on the TV, is that we can see that our defence has no shape and they get sucked out of position too often.
DM and his coaching staff should look at this in fine detail.
I was at the game, & I thought they kept their shape pretty well. The problem lies when they try to play out from the back. They're too slow, which means that they've lost advantage by being closed down by a pressing attacker.
After the penalty, we gained advantage by playing your despised "long pass".
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I disagree with some of that - but agree that the defence needs tightening ASAP.
For me, Barry was a clear improvement on Brunt, especially in the latter stages of the game when it needed slowing down and he used a bit of experience/Pulis-cynicism and a bit of dirty work to see it out.
Regarding Rodriguez, I think he doesn't get much support at times but he's the second top scorer for a reason in this league; he scores goals and they win games.
Because he takes the penalties that Gayle wins?
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To defend our management a little, you cannot compensate for bad passing from the back, we are the masters of our own problems and the team set up to be wide and spread, so when Hegazi/Dawson/Bartley lazily pass the ball to no one or to the opposition that's what gets us in trouble.
Are they ball playing centre backs, probably not but that's how it looks as though we are going to be going forward.
I will say one thing though, I will take the current performances over the Pulis/Pardew periods all day long.
If we have to outscore the opposition and win games 4-3 every week then so be it.
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To defend our management a little, you cannot compensate for bad passing from the back, we are the masters of our own problems and the team set up to be wide and spread, so when Hegazi/Dawson/Bartley lazily pass the ball to no one or to the opposition that's what gets us in trouble.
They're professional footballers and carry out the instructions of the management. Silk purses out of sows ears and all that.
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To defend our management a little, you cannot compensate for bad passing from the back, we are the masters of our own problems and the team set up to be wide and spread, so when Hegazi/Dawson/Bartley lazily pass the ball to no one or to the opposition that's what gets us in trouble.
Are they ball playing centre backs, probably not but that's how it looks as though we are going to be going forward.
I will say one thing though, I will take the current performances over the Pulis/Pardew periods all day long.
If we have to outscore the opposition and win games 4-3 every week then so be it.
Well, that seems to be the plan, so let's sit back and enjoy the ride!
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I was at the game, & I thought they kept their shape pretty well. The problem lies when they try to play out from the back. They're too slow, which means that they've lost advantage by being closed down by a pressing attacker.
After the penalty, we gained advantage by playing your despised "long pass".
Yeah, I said it in the match thread but next game watch the positioning of the 3 CB's. They're way too far apart. At times Bartley was further out wide than a LB would be. Any pass to him has to cover so much ground that players have time to press. He then has no real option available to comes back in to Hegazi who is now under more pressure, their touch isn't great so that gives them even less time.
Now throw in that they're not very good making the pass and if we lose possession cheaply at least one of our CB's is way too far out of position.
When we have the ball at the back in comfortable situations the 3 CB's need to be closer to each other and the wing backs should drop back about 12 yards or so so they can cover if possible but still be an option to play it out.
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An enjoyable game - honourable mention to Bristol City for coming and have a go. They opened the game up and turned it into a competitive contest.
Thought until the first goal we were not at the races. We was slow and could not get to grips with their off the ball movement. The first goal settled the nerves and the remainder of the first half we dominated. Barry made a positive difference with his use of the ball and the angles he creates in possession.
We moved the ball much quicker through defence and midfield which allows the excellent Harvey Barnes to work his magic.
Well done to Sam Johnstone because his quick thinking lead to the two goals.
Defensively we look unconvincing. It wasn't helped by how poor we were in the second half. We took our foot off the pedal and allowed City to create a wave of momemtum.
Still, another 3 points and more goals :D
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I thought Bristol City looked good but just came up against a set of attackers that are probably the best in this division when you think about it.
Their number 11 (O'Dowda?), looked really tidy on the ball.
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Let the revisionism begin, we've been thoroughly outplayed tonight, the midfield was neither better or worse with Barry in there as opposed to Brunt we got swamped again and the defenders still didn't pass into Barry in midfield despite him offering and taking up the same positions Brunt does.
Quite simply we won so comfortably because Harvey Barnes turned up tonight (he didn't last Friday) and in him, Gayle, Phillips and Gibbs we've got 4 players who are either at the very top ability bracket for the division, or are too good for it.
Thought Hegazi was the pick of the back 3, with Johnstone showing a lot more assertiveness in goal and some quick thinking. Despite the brace Rodriguez continues to flatter to deceive. I continue to be puzzled by the HRK substitute appearances despite the 2 goals he's scored this season.
All that said a great 3 points and up to 3rd, and in the manner I predicted in the pre match chat. Viva Big Dave. ;D
Have to say I agree with this, despite our differences over personnel choices.
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Let the revisionism begin, we've been thoroughly outplayed tonight, the midfield was neither better or worse with Barry in there as opposed to Brunt we got swamped again and the defenders still didn't pass into Barry in midfield despite him offering and taking up the same positions Brunt does.
Quite simply we won so comfortably because Harvey Barnes turned up tonight (he didn't last Friday) and in him, Gayle, Phillips and Gibbs we've got 4 players who are either at the very top ability bracket for the division, or are too good for it.
Thought Hegazi was the pick of the back 3, with Johnstone showing a lot more assertiveness in goal and some quick thinking. Despite the brace Rodriguez continues to flatter to deceive. I continue to be puzzled by the HRK substitute appearances despite the 2 goals he's scored this season.
All that said a great 3 points and up to 3rd, and in the manner I predicted in the pre match chat. Viva Big Dave. ;D
I see no revisionism required, nothing much changed with regard the performance, we were just better in midfield than we had been previously as we didn't have someone in there continually giving the ball away and fouling the opposition in dangerous areas. We still cannot defend or pass the ball around with any success at the back, whether Brunt, Barry, Iniesta or De Bruyne are in midfield, that will not change.
Your meltdown in the 'In game' thread was a thing of beauty though ;D
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To defend our management a little, you cannot compensate for bad passing from the back, we are the masters of our own problems and the team set up to be wide and spread, so when Hegazi/Dawson/Bartley lazily pass the ball to no one or to the opposition that's what gets us in trouble.
Are they ball playing centre backs, probably not but that's how it looks as though we are going to be going forward.
I will say one thing though, I will take the current performances over the Pulis/Pardew periods all day long.
If we have to outscore the opposition and win games 4-3 every week then so be it.
The management can not compensate for a single or the odd bad pass at the back. However continuously asking players to do something they cannot is absolutely the fault of the manager. If anything you could put a case forward that you can’t blame the players.
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A very enjoyable game (not sure would of said that had we lost 4-2)
I dont go to many away games but i do look forward to home games, you know there will be goals, you know it will be exciting, cheers mooro!
Last night i think Bristol City fortunately played into our hands, the first 10-15 minutes was a carryover from friday (abeit slightly better) we looked very nervous again and i think the crowd were restless too, the way we are playing at the back doesnt inspire confidence on or off the pitch.
Bristol City were gifted two great chances from our own sloppiness, I think all they needed to do at that point was be patient, it was obvious we were going to keep making mistakes, fortunately for us after they missed the second sitter where the bloke tried to put it over Johnstone, instead of being patient, Bristol obviously tried to go for the kill, this left plenty of space for us going forward and with our attacking players we are pretty devastating at this level.
Even at 1-0 i think they should of just remained patient but instead they went chasing and the game just opened up for us and we picked them off, any team trying to do that at this level we will beat.
I thought Barry played very well first half, he seemed very calm and it was an actual centre midfielder in that role instead of playing a player out of position (same as if we played Brunt on the left, he is still more than a good asset for us out there) but Barry faded whether thats age, lack of matches, etc who knows but Field should of maybe came on 15-20 minutes earlier that he did.
I havent been convinced by Johnstone so far but last night he made two very good saves early on and created two goals with quick distribution, it wont always go that way but credit to him.
Going forward, there was a spell in the first half where the football was brilliant, one and two touch, great movement, and as myself and others have stated, our attacking unit is the best at this level.
At the back, it would seem we are going to persist with the 3 players currently starting, if thats the case i think one tweak would be switch Bartley and Hegazi over so Bartley is in the middle, i like that we are trying to play football but i think we are going to continue to stuggle when we have 3 players trying to play out who it isnt their natural game, i would be giving Tosin a run of games now.
Also noticeable again last night how our defence are reactive rather than proactive, Bartley seems to talk and point a lot but whatever he is saying doesnt seem to be working that well, the three defenders keep looking across at each other as if passing the buck a bit, they then have a meltdown at each other when the opportunity has passed for the opposition, they just dont look comfortable as a unit.
Thought Bristol City were a really good side going forward, enjoyed watching them, good support too, fortunately any team who includes Nathan Baker in defence always gives me hope we will score, think it was him who ended up on his backside and missed the ball for Gayles goal. As long as its not at our expense i hope they go up this season.
That said its been a tough few years to watch recently at the Albion at times, this new approach drives you mad at times but its fun, its entertaining and certainly at home, its effective!
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The management can not compensate for a single or the odd bad pass at the back. However continuously asking players to do something they cannot is absolutely the fault of the manager. If anything you could put a case forward that you can’t blame the players.
But shouldn't every professional footballer be able to pass to one of their own players more often that not?
The amount of times the last few weeks that we have given the ball away by simply not putting enough on it, or just sloppy passing, that's what puts us under pressure. No one is outplaying us, or outpassing us, we are simply causing our own problems by giving them the ball. I can think of numerous times against Blues when Dawson/Hegazi simply didn't put enough on their pass to the player for it to be intercepted and putting us on the backfoot.
Overall though I am happy, we are going for a transitional period of the squad and how we play, we are 3rd in the league, top scorers in the league, our attacking looks dangerous everytime it goes forward and you could argue we haven't really played that well yet (excluding possibly Stoke at home and QPR - however wont give too much credit to QPR).
Imagine how good we could be when the defence does tighten up.
Also a special shoutout to the team for seeing last night out. We have all been there before when we have thrown away leads like that, we managed it well, slowed it down when needed and saw the game out.
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Johnstone - 8 - Thought he made some strong saves early in the game and had a hand 2 of the goals with his quick release of the ball. couldn't do much with the goals conceded.
Dawson - 6.5-7 - Surprised to see him captain, didn't do too much wrong.
Hegazi - 6.5/7 - See above, gave the ball away a couple of times but won a lot in the air and some timely blocks in the second half.
Bartley 6 - Thought he was the worst of the 3.
Gibbs - 6 - didn't offer too much going forward and at times their right winger had the beating of him.
Phillips - 6 - Kept a lot quiter compared to recent weeks.
Barry - 7 - Brought composure and calmness when on the ball.
Livermore - 7 - Good pressing, set up the attack for the penalty.
Barnes - 9 - 2 assists and a goal. Kid really is a special talent, enjoy him whilst he is here.
Gayle - 7 - Won the penalty and also took his goal well with a tidy finish. Had a quiet second half other than winning the ball back for Barnes goal/
JRod - 7 - 2 goals, but cant really recall him doing much more in the game.
Subs -
Wes - 7 - tidy in possession, looks like he will contribute to us going forward and keeping the ball.
Field - 6.5 - helped to keep the ball and keep us ticking over, glad to see him get some gametime.
HRK - 6 - other than giving away a few fouls and helping run the clock down, didn't do too much else.
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But shouldn't every professional footballer be able to pass to one of their own players more often that not?
The amount of times the last few weeks that we have given the ball away by simply not putting enough on it, or just sloppy passing, that's what puts us under pressure. No one is outplaying us, or outpassing us, we are simply causing our own problems by giving them the ball. I can think of numerous times against Blues when Dawson/Hegazi simply didn't put enough on their pass to the player for it to be intercepted and putting us on the backfoot.
Overall though I am happy, we are going for a transitional period of the squad and how we play, we are 3rd in the league, top scorers in the league, our attacking looks dangerous everytime it goes forward and you could argue we haven't really played that well yet (excluding possibly Stoke at home and QPR - however wont give too much credit to QPR).
Imagine how good we could be when the defence does tighten up.
Also a special shoutout to the team for seeing last night out. We have all been there before when we have thrown away leads like that, we managed it well, slowed it down when needed and saw the game out.
They should I agree, but if they consistently can't you have to question why keeping asking them to do it. The best managers adapt. Plenty of managers fail because they blindly stick to a principle. Klopp has had to spend a fortune to replace much better defenders than ours who were not up to it albeit at a different level.
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The 'excitement' is great when we win games 4-2 but it will feel very different if we lose 3 or 4 on the bounce and we're still giving the ball away like we do.
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Johnstone - 8 - Thought he made some strong saves early in the game and had a hand 2 of the goals with his quick release of the ball. couldn't do much with the goals conceded.
Dawson - 6.5-7 - Surprised to see him captain, didn't do too much wrong.
Hegazi - 6.5/7 - See above, gave the ball away a couple of times but won a lot in the air and some timely blocks in the second half.
Bartley 6 - Thought he was the worst of the 3.
Gibbs - 6 - didn't offer too much going forward and at times their right winger had the beating of him.
Phillips - 6 - Kept a lot quiter compared to recent weeks.
Barry - 7 - Brought composure and calmness when on the ball.
Livermore - 7 - Good pressing, set up the attack for the penalty.
Barnes - 9 - 2 assists and a goal. Kid really is a special talent, enjoy him whilst he is here.
Gayle - 7 - Won the penalty and also took his goal well with a tidy finish. Had a quiet second half other than winning the ball back for Barnes goal/
JRod - 7 - 2 goals, but cant really recall him doing much more in the game.
Subs -
Wes - 7 - tidy in possession, looks like he will contribute to us going forward and keeping the ball.
Field - 6.5 - helped to keep the ball and keep us ticking over, glad to see him get some gametime.
HRK - 6 - other than giving away a few fouls and helping run the clock down, didn't do too much else.
Not a bad assessment at all. Personally given Johnstone 8.5 (his best game for us) Dawson 6, Livermore 6.5 and Robson Kanu 5.5. (I used .5's as that's what you're doing).
Other than that I agree with you pretty much completely.
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Playing out from the back seem to be the current in vogue buzz words, the principle is fine in theory but needs players that are able to pass accurately consistently to be effective over a lengthy period. We need at the moment our back 3 to remember they are their primarily there to stop the opposition scoring or having chances to score. This is why teams have coaching staff to get these defenders doing the day job on a consistent and repetitive basis or find a system which enables the players we have to do this and not to tell them they are the Championship equivalent of Beckenbauer, do this and we are well on the way to promotion with the attacking ability we have
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Oh well, at least the end of season DVD should provide better viewing than some of the more recent efforts.
COYB 8) .
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Interesting to note that the second and third goals were created by Johnstone completely bypassing the defence and rolling it out to Barnes for the second, and throwing it out to him for the third.
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Gibb's ball for the 3rd is superb too, brilliant one-two.
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They should I agree, but if they consistently can't you have to question why keeping asking them to do it. The best managers adapt. Plenty of managers fail because they blindly stick to a principle. Klopp has had to spend a fortune to replace much better defenders than ours who were not up to it albeit at a different level.
The current back 3 have only played 2/3 games together, if these problems are still happening 2-3 months down the line and we haven't changed it, then ill question DM's ability to adapt.
To play devils advocate, if you would have asked me at the start of the season, after 8 games we will be 3rd in the league with the most goals scored and haven't really 'clicked' yet, I would have snapped your hand off.
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This defence has got us to third place in the league. There is way too much being made of these frailties. If our defence is bad what is Bristol City's? We haven't conceded four in a game this season and it's not as if we're conceding two's and three's every game.
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This defence has got us to third place in the league. There is way too much being made of these frailties. If our defence is bad what is Bristol City's? We haven't conceded four in a game this season and it's not as if we're conceding two's and three's every game.
We're conceding 20 chances a game at the moment. Those numbers aren't conducive to winning the league. Are we really basing our defensive strategy around other teams missing chances. No one is after a return to the Pulis days. I just don't want us to look like we're going to concede every time the opposition are in our half.
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I've noticed that on many posts, including some of mine, we seem to be talking about the defence and attacking parts of our side separately as if they are not part of the same team. Attack = good. Defence = Bad.
However, its been the way we set up to play from defence that opens up the pitch for our attackers to go at pace. If our defenders just pushed towards half way awaiting the keepers hoof then the pitch would be squeezed and leave no space for our attackers to run. It is our defenders dropping deep that helps create the opportunities for our attackers, pulling the opposition forward s they try and press.
We do need to find a better balance between playing it short and occasionally just relieving pressure, but as my young lad noticed last night when we did go long "we need some taller players upfront" all that happens is that invariably it will just come back. It was interesting that a few times Johnstone kicked the ball straight out of play much to the frustration of one or two individuals around me as he "can't even kick a ball!!" but the reason for this is that he was trying to find Phillips on the line who has much more chance of winning the ball than if it goes up the middle to our comparatively small forward line.
Without the old hoof it to Rondon option we are reliant on our defenders to move the ball between the back three, creating the angle to release and stretching the game to draw the press before passing through the lines to create attacks. This is a tough ask for a centre back and at times they struggle, but if we stop to wait for defenders of the required quality to arrive before we play like this....it might be a long wait.
So I hope that over time both the defensive unit AND the crowd lose some of the anxiety that tends to build around those periods when the opposition really press hard and cause mistakes, as we know that if only takes 30 seconds for us to break the press and score (3 touches and in!!). The more confident they get, the more dangerous we are!
I should add, that I have said for a few weeks that somebody will probably give us a good tumping at some point with the way we set up. Both Blues and Bristol could have been 3 up within 15 minutes. So be ready for that one, and don't knee jerk too much as hopefully it will be part of the learning curve for the team.
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We're conceding 20 chances a game at the moment. Those numbers aren't conducive to winning the league. Are we really basing our defensive strategy around other teams missing chances. No one is after a return to the Pulis days. I just don't want us to look like we're going to concede every time the opposition are in our half.
No we're not. What do you define as a chance? As well as Blues played they didn't have 20 chances and Bristol City may have had 23 attempts at goal but some of them were nowhere near being genuine "chances".
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Well it certainly is exciting!
Midfield looked better (at least Barry is a CM plus his ball retentionand passing was superior to Brunt and he can tackle) but we are still being over run as the wing backs don't tuck in when we lose possession and Barnes doesn't often track back.
Defensively something needs to worked on as it's not quite right. I noticed a few times last night that all 3 of then swapped positions as if trying to work out where was best for them. Bartley for me is the one that gives me the most nerves and I'd be tempted to bring in Adabarioyo against Millwall and play him right hand side with Dawson in the middle and Hegazi left, but Hegazi and Dawson don't inspire much confidence either.
On the bright side, as Atomic has said, this defence has helped us get to 3rd and we aren't shipping 3 or 4 per game but we are giving away goals that are sloppy: Hegazi should have made a better challenge on the Bristol No9 instead of allowing him inside to shoot.
Barnes was very good last night and I thought Johnstone looked more assured. Gibbs was getting into good positions but was often over looked, he also looked tired towards the end but maybe that was due to what ever illness he had last week.
Gayle and Rodriguez were always looking for space and closed down well, they also took their goals well. In Rodriguez we have a penalty taker who looks confident every time he steps up and Gayle is just a natural finisher.
It was good to see Field get some minutes but I'd have brought him on sooner and I would have kept Gayle on and subbed Rodriguez for Hoolihan.
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Thought their number 11 was top drawer. Callum O’Dowda I think it was, thought he is exactly the kind of player that we need, reminded me of Tom Cairney for Fulham in many ways.
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Thought their number 11 was top drawer. Callum O’Dowda I think it was, thought he is exactly the kind of player that we need, reminded me of Tom Cairney for Fulham in many ways.
Their number nine weren't bad either. Caused us no end of problems when he came on.
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This defence has got us to third place in the league. There is way too much being made of these frailties. If our defence is bad what is Bristol City's? We haven't conceded four in a game this season and it's not as if we're conceding two's and three's every game.
Our attacking line up has got us to 3rd in the league.
Highest scorers in the league.
Have conceded most goals in the top half.
The attack is papering over the cracks that look like they're getting bigger, not smaller.
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Our attacking line up has got us to 3rd in the league.
Highest scorers in the league.
Have conceded most goals in the top half.
The attack is papering over the cracks that look like they're getting bigger, not smaller.
It's a team it's not attack vs defence. We may have conceded more goals than a lot of teams but they don't play the expansive football that we do. We score more goals. The "balance" so far isn't bad as we're third and we are still adjusting to a completely different way of playing.
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No we're not. What do you define as a chance? As well as Blues played they didn't have 20 chances and Bristol City may have had 23 attempts at goal but some of them were nowhere near being genuine "chances".
Bolton managed 11 attempts on our goal.
Forest had twenty attempts on our goal.
Norwich had twenty attempts on our goal.
Stoke had 16 attempts on our goal.
Blues could only muster 13.
Fact remains we're far too open. Over 46 games there are going to be occasions where we need to win when playing poorly. The way we set up at the moment means when we play poorly our best chance of a result is to pray the opposition don't take their chances. We shouldn't be relying on that, especially when playing the likes of Birmingham.
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Some of us remember the first few matches when Johnny Giles came as player/manager and our style of play changed to what we are seeing now. We were all over the place in defence and midfield but eventually things came together and we got promoted.
Give it a bit more time.
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All that matters this early in the season is the results, especially given the recent changes at the club. We are third, scoring goals and conceding goals. I'd take that over being mid-table, looking more well-rounded and solid with less conceded. Time will heal the weaknesses, it's clear to see that we are conceding too many and the shakiness of the defence is concerning.
But if we can keep on stringing results together, this will increase the confidence and I have a feeling the defence side of things will start to fall into place as this team moulds together.
How good does it feel to be excited about a game? How good does it feel to win on a Saturday and not have your weekend ruined by another depressing Albion performance where our best chance of scoring is from a corner?
In Big Dave we trust, COYB.
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Johnstone - 8 - probably his best game for us. Quick thinking with his distribution helped produce goals
Dawson - 6 - Average.
Hegazi - 6 - Few iffy moments but by and large ok.
Bartley - 6 - does not ooze confidence and a lot of Hegazi's recovery work is via a Bartley mistake
Phillips - 6 - Quieter performance but provides the neccesary width
Barry - 8 - Good use of the ball. Controlled the tempo. Provides angles for possession
Livermore - 7 - Much more suited to pressing and chasing the ball
Barnes - 9 - Excellent performance. The stand out.
Gibbs - 6 - Didn't really do too much worthy of note
Rodriguez - 6 - Took the penalty well but largely ineffective
Gayle - 7 - Goal scorer. Good finish but again similar to Rodriguez
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Field - 5 - Quiet and did not make the impact I hoped
HRK - 5 - Non existent
Hoolahan - 6 - tidy in possession and someone I think we might see more of
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Some of us remember the first few matches when Johnny Giles came as player/manager and our style of play changed to what we are seeing now. We were all over the place in defence and midfield but eventually things came together and we got promoted.
Give it a bit more time.
Oh yes the Johnny Giles era, just imagine if social media had been about then, fans would have been calling for his head, when he first joined us it was just one win in 10 league games.
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Mad game really, didn't play all that great and ended up scoring some great goals. That suits me. Great win.
Can see some pretty simple solutions to our problems though, instead of hegazi/Dawson/Bartley starting the attack just have the nearest midfielders go deep and collect. Then play on from there. The shortest amount of time them three are on the ball the better.
O'hoolahan looked good when he came on. Good atmosphere and its so good to see us exciting again.
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Oh yes the Johnny Giles era, just imagine if social media had been about then, fans would have been calling for his head, when he first joined us it was just one win in 10 league games.
Paddy Mulligan / Mick Martin / Ray Treacey / Jonny Giles, so much for old pals acts not working.
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an excellent performance going forward, but defensively very poor , 9 out of the 11 starters have premiership experience of one degree or another, to be honest I cannot understand how Heghazi and Dawson have gone from decent premiership defenders to championship also rans, this 3 at the back although we seemed to switch to 4 at the back at times needs to be changed to a permanent 4 , because the players just have not got the hang of it and although we scored 4 could have been 6 with the right pass picked City had to much possession and to much space on the flanks and we were being out numbered on both flanks towards the end , if city had got to 3 I am sure they would have got 4,obviously exciting stuff to watch , but with seemingly no outstanding team in the division we need to get this defence sorted sooner rather than later , we have enough firepower to keep us in top 6 with a tighter defence we can go all the way.
incidentally talking of firepower how come Tyler Roberts is on loan to one of our rivals , comes on and nets twice, hope its the first and last goals he gets for them we don't want another Kemar Roofe going under the radar
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an excellent performance going forward, but defensively very poor , 9 out of the 11 starters have premiership experience of one degree or another, to be honest I cannot understand how Heghazi and Dawson have gone from decent premiership defenders to championship also rans, this 3 at the back although we seemed to switch to 4 at the back at times needs to be changed to a permanent 4 , because the players just have not got the hang of it and although we scored 4 could have been 6 with the right pass picked City had to much possession and to much space on the flanks and we were being out numbered on both flanks towards the end , if city had got to 3 I am sure they would have got 4,obviously exciting stuff to watch , but with seemingly no outstanding team in the division we need to get this defence sorted sooner rather than later , we have enough firepower to keep us in top 6 with a tighter defence we can go all the way.
incidentally talking of firepower how come Tyler Roberts is on loan to one of our rivals , comes on and nets twice, hope its the first and last goals he gets for them we don't want another Kemar Roofe going under the radar
Tyler Roberts wanted out and was sold to Leeds for £2m down up to £4m with add-ons.
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Thought their number 11 was top drawer. Callum O’Dowda I think it was, thought he is exactly the kind of player that we need, reminded me of Tom Cairney for Fulham in many ways.
I said that to my lad and the guys around me. Looked quality
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Their number nine weren't bad either. Caused us no end of problems when he came on.
Diedhiou, our record signing at just over £5m, scored 14 goals last season I think, despite missing 3 months through injury. Had a six game suspension at the start of this season for an alleged spitting incident- despite the only evidence being a written statement from a Birmingham player making the allegation, and said statement being contradicted by the linesman!
Since the suspension ended he's looked like he has a point to prove, came on as a sub and scored against Blackburn and looked good Tuesday after a poorer game against Sheffield United.
I thought Bristol City looked good but just came up against a set of attackers that are probably the best in this division when you think about it.
Their number 11 (O'Dowda?), looked really tidy on the ball.
O'Dowda's a good young winger, signed from Oxford a couple of years ago and other than a few moments hadn't really been effective at this level until a goal against Palace last season. Then it looked like he was really going to kick on but he injured himself making a poor tackle away to Hull. Was injured for a few months and it was starting to look like he had gone back to 'pre-Palace'. A good performance for Ireland in the international break and followed up with 2 more against Sheffield United and yourselves.
I do think you have a couple of the best strikers in the League this season with, but think it was individual errors that did it for us. Kelly (our LB) didn't have an awful game on the whole, but it was the worst game I have seen him have, and he was caught on the ball in the lead up to your opener. Hunt had a bit of a mare, and I sort of sensed it coming after a sloppy touch about 10 minutes in when he knocked the ball out for a throw in under no pressure at all. Didn't think he was going to have as bad a game as he did though.
That Barnes looks a real prospect, Leicester have a gem there.
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Highlights here: https://vimeo.com/291341046
Apologies for the delay, totally slipped my mind!