Author Topic: Be careful of what you sing  (Read 8870 times)

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TheJacko2000

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2017, 12:19:37 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/rugby-union/england-rugby-anthem-swing-low-sweet-chariot-is-an-ignorant-expropriation-of-slave-lyrics-say-american-academics/ar-AAo2qCw?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=spartandhp

England rugby's Swing low sweet chariot is racist


That's not what it says. Only that it's origins and lyrics are deeply rooted in Slavery (the song is about death being a release to slaves), so it could be construed as distasteful to some that the song has been expropriated by English RU supporters as a celebratory anthem.
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BigFrank20

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2017, 06:52:39 AM »
Best sung in the clubhouse after a few too many beers and must be accompanied by the appropriate hand gestures!
Try a YouTube search for swinglow with hand gestures
 :P
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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2017, 07:11:33 AM »
PC Brigade at it again, looking for something that isn't there.
The fans have picked out a tune that's all, as the piece says the fans have no idea of the origins of the song.
These African-American academics always see fit to forget to mention that some of the biggest slave masters were actually Africans. It was they who sold there own people into slavery.
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apple

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2017, 07:49:05 AM »
Read this morning, police are investigating Manchester United fans singing homophobic chants at Chelsea fans, after someone complained they were offended. This was rumoured to be happening at The Albion after we played them a couple of years ago, I dont know if anything came of it but some people need to grow thicker skin. Im finding it harder and harder to understand what the worlds coming to.

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2017, 08:28:30 AM »
The Stan Boardman song(German Bombers) didnt go down to well with the suits in Germany last week
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TheBrom

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 12:22:26 PM »
To be fair, in both of these incidents there has been someone who has felt offended and has complained, not so much PC going mad, but someone actually being offended by chants aimed at them and reporting them. One - singing about the war during a German national anthem. Another singing homophobic songs.

The people singing these obviously knew what they were singing and are looking for trouble in my opinion. When is it acceptable to mock someone's sexuality or to sing derogatory songs about killing people during another country's national anthem? To suggest people grow thicker skin is a bit harsh really.

WoysWunderful

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 01:13:58 PM »
I find the chants about the second world war cringeworthy and embarrassing  regardless, but i must say the faux outrage about them and london is something i am struggling to get my head around. I dont see how a man running over and stabbing some people and a outdated song about the raf are connected

tommcneill

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 07:26:37 PM »
Well I like the song in the humour its sung in

If people get offended by it....I prefer to say its their problem not mine

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TheBrom

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 07:38:31 PM »
Well I like the song in the humour its sung in

If people get offended by it....I prefer to say its their problem not mine

Which humour is that?

And what relevance does it have to a football match?

tommcneill

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 09:58:43 PM »
Which humour is that?

And what relevance does it have to a football match?

The humour I like

If you dont like it thats your prerogative but I've joined in many a 10 German bombers songs even started a few.

I dont condone the homophobic chants and dont join in those.

The 10 German bombers song has been sung for years at Internationals, so to me its a huge part of the football banter.

Im not interested in sanitised football, its boring and humourless. You can choose not to join in same as I can choose to join in.
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TheBrom

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2017, 10:33:32 PM »
The humour I like

If you dont like it thats your prerogative but I've joined in many a 10 German bombers songs even started a few.

I dont condone the homophobic chants and dont join in those.

The 10 German bombers song has been sung for years at Internationals, so to me its a huge part of the football banter.

Im not interested in sanitised football, its boring and humourless. You can choose not to join in same as I can choose to join in.

I meant what is funny about it? I genuinely don't understand.

Just because other people sing it and have done before doesn't mean it's right

dan7heman

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2017, 12:04:29 AM »
I meant what is funny about it? I genuinely don't understand.

Just because other people sing it and have done before doesn't mean it's right

The only people who raised an issue were our media?

Just because someone in the media dont like it doesnt mean its wrong? The same people who said we are all mongrels for voting brexit.

Freedom of speech people, its what our ancestors died for.

You are entitled to and i respect your views, thats whats great about our fair land.
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The Black Pearl

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2017, 06:06:54 AM »
I just can not agree with anti German chants 70+ years after the 2nd World War, it's time we moved on, I voted for Brexit, but most Germans I have met have been lovely friendly people, no need for the insulting songs, just makes us look thick and Neanderthal.
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TheBrom

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2017, 06:41:01 AM »
The only people who raised an issue were our media?

Just because someone in the media dont like it doesnt mean its wrong? The same people who said we are all mongrels for voting brexit.

Freedom of speech people, its what our ancestors died for.

You are entitled to and i respect your views, thats whats great about our fair land.

I think you'll find that a number of Germans also complained. I'm all for freedom of speech, but that excuse is always trotted out and shouldn't be extended to insulting people. Would any of you walk down the street singing this song? I bet not.

Again I'll ask what any of this had to do with football. And how is the song in any way funny? And why people are so desperate to be able to sing a ridiculous song that has no relevance at all to the game they've gone to see.

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2017, 06:58:52 AM »
The only people who raised an issue were our media?

Just because someone in the media dont like it doesnt mean its wrong? The same people who said we are all mongrels for voting brexit.

Freedom of speech people, its what our ancestors died for.

You are entitled to and i respect your views, thats whats great about our fair land.

When? From my understanding of history most of our ancestors died in battle about who we would be ruled by nothing to do with "freedom of speech".

Freedom of speech is part of the European Human Rights Act (article 10) (it's actually freedom of expression) and came into being in 1953 and is also article 19 of the International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights which came into law in 1976 (it was a moral right since 1953).
The 1689 Bill of Rights gave the right of freedom of speech in parliament but not for all.

Basically we've had a right to freedom of speech/expression since 1953.
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tommcneill

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2017, 08:56:32 AM »
I meant what is funny about it? I genuinely don't understand.

Just because other people sing it and have done before doesn't mean it's right

Doesnt mean there is anything wrong with it either.

Its funny because I find it funny, its funny because its banter and at football I like the banter. Also football has been tribal since it inception, football songs are sung to taunt the opposition always has...whats different with this song?

Do you not find the Fawlty Towers episode about the Germans starting the war funny? Its the same banter for me thats why I like it

If you dont find it funny or relevant to football fine, please dont question me as to why I do.

I dont walk down the street singing any football song out loud, so what relevance does it have as to whether id sing this chant walking down the road?? 

And please, thick and neanderthal if we sing it? Im neither and like I say have sung it and started it internationals.

More of the offended on behalf of
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 09:00:38 AM by tommcneill »
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The Black Pearl

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2017, 09:50:37 AM »
Doesnt mean there is anything wrong with it either.

Its funny because I find it funny, its funny because its banter and at football I like the banter. Also football has been tribal since it inception, football songs are sung to taunt the opposition always has...whats different with this song?

Do you not find the Fawlty Towers episode about the Germans starting the war funny? Its the same banter for me thats why I like it

If you dont find it funny or relevant to football fine, please dont question me as to why I do.

I dont walk down the street singing any football song out loud, so what relevance does it have as to whether id sing this chant walking down the road?? 

And please, thick and neanderthal if we sing it? Im neither and like I say have sung it and started it internationals.

More of the offended on behalf of

I did not say you or anyone else was thick or Neanderthal, but it does make our fans look that way.
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The Black Pearl

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2017, 09:54:47 AM »
When? From my understanding of history most of our ancestors died in battle about who we would be ruled by nothing to do with "freedom of speech".

Freedom of speech is part of the European Human Rights Act (article 10) (it's actually freedom of expression) and came into being in 1953 and is also article 19 of the International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights which came into law in 1976 (it was a moral right since 1953).
The 1689 Bill of Rights gave the right of freedom of speech in parliament but not for all.

Basically we've had a right to freedom of speech/expression since 1953.

Not true, goes back to the Magna Carta and beyond.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/feb/05/religion.news
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TheBrom

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2017, 10:34:25 AM »
Doesnt mean there is anything wrong with it either.

Its funny because I find it funny, its funny because its banter and at football I like the banter. Also football has been tribal since it inception, football songs are sung to taunt the opposition always has...whats different with this song?

Do you not find the Fawlty Towers episode about the Germans starting the war funny? Its the same banter for me thats why I like it

If you dont find it funny or relevant to football fine, please dont question me as to why I do.

I dont walk down the street singing any football song out loud, so what relevance does it have as to whether id sing this chant walking down the road?? 

And please, thick and neanderthal if we sing it? Im neither and like I say have sung it and started it internationals.

More of the offended on behalf of

My point was, you wouldn't go around singing it anywhere else, so why feel the need to at the football. You probably wouldn't go up to a German in the street and say it either.

I'm not offended at all by it, or offended on behalf of anyone. In both of these recent publicized incidents, someone on the receiving end has complained. It stops being banter then in my opinion.

Anyway, I've enjoyed the debate, but we'll continue to go around in circles here as we have different opinions. I just think it has no relevance in football, and has rightly been publicly criticised.

I presume the people that sang and made gestures during the German national anthem, and can't see why people would be offended by it, are the same people who feel it's banter to do the airplane arms when their team plays Man United. Again, it's poor taste, disrespectful and ultimately people died. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy humorous songs as much as the next person, and I find myself laughing at some of the things that get sung in the Smethwick that are genuinely funny. There is a line however, and taunting about people dying, someone's race or sexuality shouldn't have any place in football at all. 


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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2017, 10:49:09 AM »
Not true, goes back to the Magna Carta and beyond.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/feb/05/religion.news

I can't find anything in Magna Carta that mentions freedom of speech at all.

https://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/magna-carta-english-translation
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tommcneill

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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2017, 11:48:04 AM »
My point was, you wouldn't go around singing it anywhere else, so why feel the need to at the football. You probably wouldn't go up to a German in the street and say it either.

I'm not offended at all by it, or offended on behalf of anyone. In both of these recent publicized incidents, someone on the receiving end has complained. It stops being banter then in my opinion.

Anyway, I've enjoyed the debate, but we'll continue to go around in circles here as we have different opinions. I just think it has no relevance in football, and has rightly been publicly criticised.

I presume the people that sang and made gestures during the German national anthem, and can't see why people would be offended by it, are the same people who feel it's banter to do the airplane arms when their team plays Man United. Again, it's poor taste, disrespectful and ultimately people died. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy humorous songs as much as the next person, and I find myself laughing at some of the things that get sung in the Smethwick that are genuinely funny. There is a line however, and taunting about people dying, someone's race or sexuality shouldn't have any place in football at all.

This the point though, someone is always offended by something, so unless you sanitise football and football supporters you are always going to get someone complaining.

Look at some TV shows, people call up and complain because they didnt like the program...should the program be stopped?

The Munich Air crash song sung by Liverpool fans is horrendous mocking actual people.....the 10 German bottles song is derived from 10 Green bottles and is purely banter....if some people cant separate humour from offensive chanting again thats their problem
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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2017, 01:35:31 PM »
The Germans respected our national anthem, we booed theirs.
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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2017, 01:47:50 PM »
Don't like or see the need to boo the anthem of any nation.

Glad to report that I didn't hear any booing of the Lithuanian anthem on Sunday.

As for Chelsea, well.............  ;) .
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Re: Be careful of what you sing
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2017, 01:56:15 PM »
This the point though, someone is always offended by something, so unless you sanitise football and football supporters you are always going to get someone complaining.

Look at some TV shows, people call up and complain because they didnt like the program...should the program be stopped?

The Munich Air crash song sung by Liverpool fans is horrendous mocking actual people.....the 10 German bottles song is derived from 10 Green bottles and is purely banter....if some people cant separate humour from offensive chanting again thats their problem

I've seen plenty of our own fans do the arm waving to the United fans.

I know they were the enemy at the time, but they still were actual people.

People that can't separate offensive chanting from humour is indeed the problem here