Author Topic: Sam Allardyce  (Read 152960 times)

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KN22

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1900 on: January 30, 2021, 07:10:57 PM »
Roll the dice yes... but not towards this fella!

alex1

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1901 on: January 31, 2021, 01:08:00 AM »
I don't know why we had to wait until the second half to get going. Though full marks for starting to change things as early as 25 mins, even if it was a disappointment for OShea (albeit the situation was far too serious to fret over the feelings of individual players). 

I didn't think I was looking at the same team after half time. SA says we started to play more simple. To me the obvious change was that we played further up the pitch, and so got numbers forward to put Fulham under some serious pressure, from which we created a fair number of chances and 2 goals.  I don't know why managers don't see that if you drop deep, you hand the midfield to the opposition who can then mount one attack after another, whilst we can hardly cross the halfway line. Fulham could easily have killed us off by half time.
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1902 on: January 31, 2021, 04:10:53 AM »
I don't know why we had to wait until the second half to get going. Though full marks for starting to change things as early as 25 mins, even if it was a disappointment for OShea (albeit the situation was far too serious to fret over the feelings of individual players). 

I didn't think I was looking at the same team after half time. SA says we started to play more simple. To me the obvious change was that we played further up the pitch, and so got numbers forward to put Fulham under some serious pressure, from which we created a fair number of chances and 2 goals.  I don't know why managers don't see that if you drop deep, you hand the midfield to the opposition who can then mount one attack after another, whilst we can hardly cross the halfway line. Fulham could easily have killed us off by half time.

Agreed - there was no tactical success in our point vs Fulham. We should have been at least 3 down at half time

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1903 on: January 31, 2021, 12:50:37 PM »
The first half had me absolutely calling for SA's head but I take it back - there's so much going on with the team's confidence right now; truly appalling. Sam totally switched things around - a Leeds supporting mate of mine texted me saying 'how has he managed to replace the whole squad at half time?' As much as I was a fan of Bilic he never seemed to be able to switch things around when needed...

I know we really could have done with the three points, but I can accept relegation if we play like that second half for the rest of the season.

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gazberg

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1904 on: January 31, 2021, 01:02:26 PM »
The ability levels didn't change but the attitudes did. Dion Dublin called out everything that is wrong within the team in his first 45 mins commentating on us. None of it was about ability. It's all in their head.

Soon as we equalised they were full of running, winning 50/50s. Stopped lashing the ball away because they are scared, they wanted the ball instead of hiding like rats.

Due to the players cowardly first half Sam had to show our hand by half time to make 2 subs to give us a chance to get back in the game which meant we couldn't counter their 2 subs late on in the game.

No one would deny the squad is amongst the bottom  5/6 squads of terms of ability in the PL but we need to engage in the physical aspect of the game, running and tackling before we get to talking about ability. The squad may have always gone down even if with heads screwed on but we would never have let in 5 against Palace/Leeds etc if they remained professional every game which is the least they could do for 30k pw+


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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1905 on: January 31, 2021, 01:55:31 PM »
I really liked having Bilic as our manger and shared many of the fears about Allardyce. But of course its no coincidence that he's been so successful over the years and also became England manager.  He may be many things, but he certainly is a very professional football manager.

I've been impressed with his transfer activity so far.  Surely in our position; Austin, Harper, Krovinovic, Grosicki, Cipre are not fit for a Prem league battle.  And the targets he's had, Choudary, Benteke, Lingard, Maitland-Niles, Rose were all sensible targets.  With our limited funds and terrible position; Snodgrass and Diagne were an upgrade on what we have and a defensive midfielder will surely also follow.

It all feels much too late and yesterday was probably our last chance.  But its better to go down fighting than slide to record low points, losing every week.  Any players left next season if we went down in free-fall would be permanently damaged.  So fight on Big Sam and keep doing your best!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 02:35:16 PM by Baltic »

ex coseley kid

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1906 on: January 31, 2021, 02:10:13 PM »
But its better to go down fighting than slide to record low points, losing every week.  Any players left next season if went down in free-fall would be permanently damaged.  So fight on Big Sam and keep doing your best!

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alex1

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1907 on: January 31, 2021, 05:59:08 PM »
The ability levels didn't change but the attitudes did. Dion Dublin called out everything that is wrong within the team in his first 45 mins commentating on us. None of it was about ability. It's all in their head.

Soon as we equalised they were full of running, winning 50/50s. Stopped lashing the ball away because they are scared, they wanted the ball instead of hiding like rats.

Due to the players cowardly first half Sam had to show our hand by half time to make 2 subs to give us a chance to get back in the game which meant we couldn't counter their 2 subs late on in the game.

No one would deny the squad is amongst the bottom  5/6 squads of terms of ability in the PL but we need to engage in the physical aspect of the game, running and tackling before we get to talking about ability. The squad may have always gone down even if with heads screwed on but we would never have let in 5 against Palace/Leeds etc if they remained professional every game which is the least they could do for 30k pw+

I couldn't see the players were giving any less effort in the first half. We just got the tactics wrong. We were playing far too deep, allowing Fulham to  take control of the midfield and to set up one attack after another. The possession stats tell you everything. Massively in Fulham's favour first half, then changed after half time.

Who was responsible? Is it the players who just decide to play deep first half and then get forward second? Its probably the manager. Well done SA for changing it, but my question is why were we playing deep to start with.
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

gazberg

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1908 on: January 31, 2021, 06:08:35 PM »
Fair play Alex but I saw massive increase in work rate from the second the 2nd half kicked off. I genuinely don't believe Sam Allardyce told them to sit deep against Fulham but that's obviously your right to disagree.

They were just half soaked as usual IMO. I think they had a rocket at half time coupled with the introduction of a big striker and they started to realise Fulham ain't nothing special

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1909 on: January 31, 2021, 06:13:52 PM »
The first half had me absolutely calling for SA's head but I take it back - there's so much going on with the team's confidence right now; truly appalling. Sam totally switched things around - a Leeds supporting mate of mine texted me saying 'how has he managed to replace the whole squad at half time?' As much as I was a fan of Bilic he never seemed to be able to switch things around when needed...

I know we really could have done with the three points, but I can accept relegation if we play like that second half for the rest of the season.

Interesting post and I share many of the views you express. However we cannot overlook that the manager got the tactics completely wrong in the first half, a half that was a new low given the opposition. Things certainly improved second half but it’s about taking that into the next game now. I don’t have a high confidence that we will do so.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1910 on: January 31, 2021, 06:30:47 PM »
Fair play Alex but I saw massive increase in work rate from the second the 2nd half kicked off. I genuinely don't believe Sam Allardyce told them to sit deep against Fulham but that's obviously your right to disagree.

They were just half soaked as usual IMO. I think they had a rocket at half time coupled with the introduction of a big striker and they started to realise Fulham ain't nothing special

Wasn't BS trying to reprise the lucky draw we had against Livermore?  He was lucky again as in both first halves we should have been 3 down but for bad shooting and the intervention of the woodwork.  I can't believe that the team went out on the pitch in the first half and of their own volition decided to sit back hoof the ball to a single attacker and take a pounding.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1911 on: January 31, 2021, 06:34:03 PM »
Wasn't BS trying to reprise the lucky draw we had against Livermore?  He was lucky again as in both first halves we should have been 3 down but for bad shooting and the intervention of the woodwork.  I can't believe that the team went out on the pitch in the first half and of their own volition decided to sit back hoof the ball to a single attacker and take a pounding.

I could they looked terrified as they do most games until the 2nd half. Little bit of belief and took the lead and looked a different team.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1912 on: January 31, 2021, 08:07:33 PM »
Pity he  didn't he give them belief before the game started.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 08:09:18 PM by NJS »
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1913 on: January 31, 2021, 08:11:43 PM »
Pity he  didn't he give them belief before the game started.

Bilic couldn't give them that from the restart. Shame we persevered with him.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1914 on: January 31, 2021, 09:24:38 PM »
Sam's never been relegated tag has gone now
Trust us to be the club to break his record

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1915 on: January 31, 2021, 09:28:28 PM »
Sam's never been relegated tag has gone now
Trust us to be the club to break his record

I believe he will be gone before the end of the season.
It is not the taking part, but the winning that counts.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1916 on: January 31, 2021, 09:37:52 PM »
I believe he will be gone before the end of the season.

I hope he is here until we are official. I want this to be his last rescue mission.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1917 on: January 31, 2021, 09:45:28 PM »
We need to get rid and start building for the championship should have gone after the Leeds Arsenal week debacle.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1918 on: January 31, 2021, 09:46:49 PM »
Just a waste of everyone's time to persist with SA as a short term fix when we already need to rebuild ready for another EFL promotion push next season.  What are we doing as a club anymore? Pathetic and frustrating


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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1919 on: January 31, 2021, 09:50:14 PM »
Just a waste of everyone's time to persist with SA as a short term fix when we already need to rebuild ready for another EFL promotion push next season.  What are we doing as a club anymore? Pathetic and frustrating

The fact Allardyce was appointed in the first place shows how inept the club have become.
It is not the taking part, but the winning that counts.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1920 on: January 31, 2021, 09:50:39 PM »
Need to get someone else lined up for next season now, hopefully this is our last stint on the outdated British merry-go-round but I said that after Pardew.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1921 on: January 31, 2021, 10:04:04 PM »
The issue is if we are going to get sold there’s no point in getting rid. I’d much rather he stay, new owners come in and they start making decisions.

Frankly I don’t want any of the current clowns choosing the tea lady. Although they’ve probably fired her.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1922 on: January 31, 2021, 10:07:37 PM »
I think unless we are within 5 points of safety by the end of February (after the Brighton game) i think Big Sam will leave, probably some statement about mutual consent which i would think would be right as neither party would want to carry on.

There are a lot of points still to play for but we need the Allardyce survivial magic to start working now and  to put together a run of form in February that is champions league form.

I dont see that happening as we dont seem to really be improving, i dont blame Big Sam,  i dont think he has really done that much to improve the current players  but other than that he has inherited a group of players that dont really even have the basic credentials he seems to look for.

He would of needed six or seven players start of january to put his own stamp on it, that was never going to happen and that combined with the complete opppsite styles of our squad to his preferred type of player just makes the appointment so bizarre.

The only way i can see us having a chance is getting probably 12 points out the next 15, get some momentum and belief for the last quarter of the season  but i just dont see it happening.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1923 on: January 31, 2021, 10:08:51 PM »
Just a waste of everyone's time to persist with SA as a short term fix when we already need to rebuild ready for another EFL promotion push next season.  What are we doing as a club anymore? Pathetic and frustrating

We are going nowhere as a club, as we have decided not to give managers any time to build any lasting foundations and have placed entirely unrealistic expectations on them. Deservedly we will be marooned in the championship and bleed dry of what money is left. The posters on here moaning about performances and results in the second half of the championship last season - how unreasonable it was that we got only got 82 points instead of 100 points and couldn't keep demolishing the opposition with show stopping performances will be in for a rude awakening.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1924 on: January 31, 2021, 10:15:46 PM »
Bilic couldn't give them that from the restart. Shame we persevered with him.
Allardyce's league record since he took over is now:

W1  D2  L5  F7 A24

Bilic's last 8 results were:

W1  D2  L5  F5 A13

There was much to criticise Bilic for, and I did a fair bit of it myself, so it's no great surprise that the Board rolled the dice. What I can't go along with are suggestions that Allardyce has made a better fist of things so far than Bilic did, because he really hasn't. I'm comparing his record with Bilic's last 8 games because the squad was more or less the same for both, which makes for a reasonable comparison in my book.

Whether Allardyce was the right person to bring in remains to be seen, but he's very far from covered himself in glory up to now. Whilst I would prefer Bilic to be here over Allardyce, I'm not hankering for Bilic to come back as such, even though his final results indicate that things were improving defensively up until the point that he left. I just feel that we could have replaced him with someone who had a more positive style of play than Allardyce who'd stand a better chance of getting more out of the existing players.

When managers like Allardyce and Pulis aren't getting results, they really don't have any other mitigating factors. At least Bilic's tactics primarily involved wanting to have a good amount of possession and trying to get forward with purpose.