[tommcneill]

Ah in praise of Johnstone now, that same keeper you've lambasted for months, how ironic.  Awful you couldn't give Bilic any credit for Man City A. 

Last night was pitiful.  But in defence of Allardyce we were again done over by VAR, as I'm one of the few to stand up and tell it like it is.

How is this Allardyce tactical masterclass going to work right now with these players?  He's going to do what exactly that Bilic couldn't?

Ive been critical of Johnstone too in the past. Does this mean those that have cannot now praise him when he plays well?

If it wasn’t for Johnstone we would have been absolutely hammered by City, I’d hardly call that a tactical masterclass from Bilic....

[timdon]

Ah so it was all part of his masterplan? 60+ games and never settled on a starting 11 or formation. He's just a poor tactician. Lovely bloke, charismatic, but poor at his job once things start to go wrong.

You can be as sarcastic as you want, but it's still just your opinion. Never settled on a starting 11 or formation, or was flexible enough to change things depending on the opposition or when players lost form? It's a matter of opinion not fact.

[TheJacko2000]

You can be as sarcastic as you want, but it's still just your opinion. Never settled on a starting 11 or formation, or was flexible enough to change things depending on the opposition or when players lost form? It's a matter of opinion not fact.

When this season did Callum Robinson lose form? What was the thought process behind re-signing last seasons team and then despite never playing it previously and with only a 3 week preseason try to crowbar said players into a back 3?

Flexibility it would appear is overrated: goals for 10, goals against 26.

[timdon]

When this season did Callum Robinson lose form? What was the thought process behind re-signing last seasons team and then despite never playing it previously and with only a 3 week preseason try to crowbar said players into a back 3?

Flexibility it would appear is overrated: goals for 10, goals against 26.

Well I don't know Jacko. You'd need to ask Slaven. But if I were to guess, maybe re-signing last season's players was at least partly due to the fact that there was such a short pre-season. And possibly partly due to us having a rubbish scouting system? Yes, he got things wrong sometimes in my opinion as well, but I also think he got things right sometimes as well. He provided us with some good memories as well as some bad ones. Do you not agree? He at least tried to get his teams playing on the front foot, and at least tried to give some of the youngsters a chance, maybe with mixed results, but I liked him as a manager for those reasons. I also liked his honesty and integrity. You seem to see things very black and white, whereas my opinions are maybe more nuanced. Just different ways of looking at things I guess.

[Groovephil]

Like others have said we basically have the same squad that got promoted and this was a suicidal idea given how dreadful they had played in 2020.

Nobody can be shocked we are struggling, expectations were we would go down from 90% of Albion fans. The board, and only because of interested buyers, have chanced their luck with a manager who’s never got relegated. If Sam does pull it off it will probably be bigger than the great escape season.

He’s going to need a miracle in the jan window and somehow completely change a teams approach, attitude and mindset.

I wish him all them luck but for me this squad is shot to pooh now.

[timdon]

Like others have said we basically have the same squad that got promoted and this was a suicidal idea given how dreadful they had played in 2020.

Nobody can be shocked we are struggling, expectations were we would go down from 90% of Albion fans. The board, and only because of interested buyers, have chanced their luck with a manager who’s never got relegated. If Sam does pull it off it will probably be bigger than the great escape season.

He’s going to need a miracle in the jan window and somehow completely change a teams approach, attitude and mindset.

I wish him all them luck but for me this squad is shot to **** now.

They didn't play "dreadfully" in 2020 or else we wouldn't have got promoted. Some matches we played poorly and some matches we played well is a more realistic assessment
And as this is the Sam Allardyce thread, I should point out that this "never been relegated" tag is a bit of an urban myth. Never been relegated from the top flight would be more accurate. This could easily change of course.

[SirTonyM]

Can’t you “appreciate” the merits of both managers. Some people loved Bilic, he changed the mood and gave us some great moments (including promotion). He also had flaws as people have said. He was charismatic and inspired players and some
Improved under him. I am a Slav fan. We also had some really bad performances and tactically we did look poor at times. The results and performances against Fulham, Palace and Newcastle were most alarming.
Allardyce has a record of turning around teams and they improve under him. Once he gets his methods across we should improve. Whatever you think of Allardyce and his style his record isn’t bad. Teams like Newcastle, West Ham and Everton who all dismissed his style (and to be honest in Newcastle and West Hams case think way more of themselves than they should) were better off when he left than when he arrived.

[timdon]

I mean it would be ridiculous to say he's lost the dressing room after one match, but I think there might be an issue here nonetheless. Slaven, whatever the pros and cons, I think still had the support and loyalty of the players. Yes, they need to be professional and all that, but Allardyce has to persuade them that he is a better option and get them really really motivated if he is to have any chance of keeping us up, and I think he will struggle. Early indications are that his approach is going to be more hard man (Pulis) than wise man (Roy), and it's a dangerous strategy. Morale is so important.

[baggiejohn]

I mean it would be ridiculous to say he's lost the dressing room after one match, but I think there might be an issue here nonetheless. Slaven, whatever the pros and cons, I think still had the support and loyalty of the players. Yes, they need to be professional and all that, but Allardyce has to persuade them that he is a better option and get them really really motivated if he is to have any chance of keeping us up, and I think he will struggle. Early indications are that his approach is going to be more hard man (Pulis) than wise man (Roy), and it's a dangerous strategy. Morale is so important.

SA might have been given free reign to do what he wants.

If that means replacing the whole squad, he won't care about morale.

[gerry m]

SA might have been given free reign to do what he wants.

If that means replacing the whole squad, he won't care about morale.

Replacing the whole squad! Really and just how much money is that going to cost and where will it come from?

[baggiejohn]

Replacing the whole squad! Really and just how much money is that going to cost and where will it come from?

Depends on what the club have promised Sam.

According to our fans, this squad isn't good enough to stop up, if that's the case, Sam's going to have to change it.

[Standaman]

Depends on what the club have promised Sam.

According to our fans, this squad isn't good enough to stop up, if that's the case, Sam's going to have to change it.

The club won't go that far even if they could they ain't doing it in January.

[baggie82]

Ive been critical of Johnstone too in the past. Does this mean those that have cannot now praise him when he plays well?

If it wasn’t for Johnstone we would have been absolutely hammered by City, I’d hardly call that a tactical masterclass from Bilic....

I love the naivety of this mind set. What formation was Bilic supposed to chose to avoid Man City avoiding control of the ball and most of the chances?

[GREGMT]

Could his start have been any worse?  3pts further back from Burnley, 1pt back on Newcastle, Brighton, Fulham.

And a morale sapping 0-3 reverse by your local rivals.

If he's clever he'll play reserves at Liverpool, resting the big guns for Leeds and Arsenal, which are now season defining games.

[alex1]

Could his start have been any worse?  3pts further back from Burnley, 1pt back on Newcastle, Brighton, Fulham.

And a morale sapping 0-3 reverse by your local rivals.

If he's clever he'll play reserves at Liverpool, resting the big guns for Leeds and Arsenal, which are now season defining games.

That's what some suggested for the Man City game.

[tommcneill]

I love the naivety of this mind set. What formation was Bilic supposed to chose to avoid Man City avoiding control of the ball and most of the chances?

I really don’t appreciate you calling my comments and my mindset naive...not at all 

Formation wise, what has that got to do with my comments??

Regardless of the formation he played Man City we’re going to have a lot of shots, as they did, which is why I said Johnstone gave us the draw, not the tactics of Bilic.

 

[baggie82]

I really don’t appreciate you calling my comments and my mindset naive...not at all 

Formation wise, what has that got to do with my comments??

Regardless of the formation he played Man City we’re going to have a lot of shots, as they did, which is why I said Johnstone gave us the draw, not the tactics of Bilic.

So no credit to Bilic then for the point at Man City? Johnstone was kept fairly well guarded until the last five minutes. If Bilic had nothing to do with the team getting a point at the Eitihad then can we also absolve him of all blame for the defeats? I would dare to suggest that the management and the players deserve a heck of a lot of credit for their set-up, performance and result at City, and any argument against that is churlish.

[adamw1109]

I really don’t appreciate you calling my comments and my mindset naive...not at all 

Formation wise, what has that got to do with my comments??

Regardless of the formation he played Man City we’re going to have a lot of shots, as they did, which is why I said Johnstone gave us the draw, not the tactics of Bilic.

[/b]

So your not giving credit to bilic for getting a draw at Man City, your saying Johnstone gave us the draw.... yet if we got turned over 4/5 nil no doubt it would have been down to the manager, his tactics and team selection 

Laughable.

[tommcneill]

[/b]

So your not giving credit to bilic for getting a draw at Man City, your saying Johnstone gave us the draw.... yet if we got turned over 4/5 nil no doubt it would have been down to the manager, his tactics and team selection 

Laughable.

So now you're assuming I’d say that if we got turned over it would have Bilic’s tactics? Can you quote me where I’ve said that or intimated that?

But for Johnstone’s heroics it would have been 4/5-1....

One man got the draw for us with us repeated outstanding saves.

And you can cut the the ‘laughable’ comments aswell, seeing to many people with these type comments and they are not wanted on this forum.

[tommcneill]

So no credit to Bilic then for the point at Man City? Johnstone was kept fairly well guarded until the last five minutes. If Bilic had nothing to do with the team getting a point at the Eitihad then can we also absolve him of all blame for the defeats? I would dare to suggest that the management and the players deserve a heck of a lot of credit for their set-up, performance and result at City, and any argument against that is churlish.

They had plenty of shots throughout the game, not just the last 5 mins. Sam saved that point....

Bilic is as part of the draw as the team, but tactics wise he didn’t have much of an impact on the game itself.

You just can’t help yourself can you? You have to get a dig in regarding someone else’s opinion...



They played for the him, ran for him, but that’s the least I expect of players at our club.

[baggie82]

They had plenty of shots throughout the game, not just the last 5 mins. Sam saved that point....

Bilic is as part of the draw as the team, but tactics wise he didn’t have much of an impact on the game itself.

You just can’t help yourself can you? You have to get a dig in regarding someone else’s opinion...



They played for the him, ran for him, but that’s the least I expect of players at our club.

I think your being incredibly harsh and unfair. We will have to agree to disagree. Let’s just hope Allardyce or Sam Johnstone can engineer a similar miracle at Anfield.

[Evo_Baggies]

I saw the comments Big Sam made about Grealish which has really annoyed me.

"If we had a Jack Grealish, with all due respect to my players, we would stay up"

Not enjoying our manager praising Villa players firstly, also Jack has already been relegated with Villa and was lucky not to be relegated with them last year...

[skyclad99]

I saw the comments Big Sam made about Grealish which has really annoyed me.

"If we had a Jack Grealish, with all due respect to my players, we would stay up"

Not enjoying our manager praising Villa players firstly, also Jack has already been relegated with Villa and was lucky not to be relegated with them last year...

but its a fact Evo, regardless of what you think of 'greasy jack' he is a very good footballer. If the vile do sell him then they are likely to sink like a stone in this league.

Sam is just being honest which I don't mind.

[tuamigos]

He needs to get inside the players heads.
We need the footballers to start playing. Diangana and Pereira will be pivotal to this season. They need to start performing as they did against Everton at the start of the season. We have a talisman in Gallagher, the kid looks like he can run all day
If SA is into the transfer market in January, we need to loan/buy a decent centre half and somebody to hold the ball up front. Not Carrol either.
If we can get another striker in I think we can let Austin and ARK go. If we can get a striker as well, might be worth thinking about recalling Zohore and see if SA can do anything with him.
We need to try something because at the moment we are on a hiding to nothing.

[wodenson46]

I saw the comments Big Sam made about Grealish which has really annoyed me.

"If we had a Jack Grealish, with all due respect to my players, we would stay up"

Not enjoying our manager praising Villa players firstly, also Jack has already been relegated with Villa and was lucky not to be relegated with them last year...

Yep Sam you are correct! If MP. PK GD et al all got the same protection as grassy jack they would all look world beaters. Jesus if I got that sort of protection and was allowed to get away with what he does I would look international class, and I'm over 60 with dodgy knees and hips. If that little pooh played for us the best thing he could do would be to teach our lads how to get away with diving screaming and getting opponents sent of by play acting in an unprofessional manner. Most fouled my arr's . he just gets given the benefit of more bad decisions than any other player. Grassy jack is a cheat- no more no less and is despised by so many supporters (and I would suggest fellow professionals if they only had the balls to stand up and be counted in public|) from  so many different clubs for it. Do not mention that scumbag and West Bromwich Albion in the same sentence ever again mr Allardyce or you might have to think very carefully about where you show your ugly mush. As you might be able to deduce I am not now nor have ever been all that keen on mr grassy backside grealish