Author Topic: 20 Dec 2020 Albion 0 Aston Villa 3  (Read 30541 times)

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ronnie_allen

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #750 on: December 21, 2020, 10:57:56 AM »
Wish some of our players would wise up to those arts..
Yep. Villa were bickering and complaining about almost every corner, throw-in or free-kick that didn't go there way. Mings in particular regularly running away with the ball when the opposition have a throw or free kick to allow his team get back into a defensive shape. Big shouts whenever they go down. And not just yesterday. Seems to be a feature since at least Smith came in. Seems to be working for them.
Whereas we seemed very mute in comparison and if a throw doesn't go our way we just throw our hands up apologetically. As mentioned Diangana, didn't seem to make much of a deal with his ankle stamped on in comparison to the loud vociferous scream that Grealish let out when Livermore went into him.
Seems to help give Villa another edge over us and set part of their stall out for the game; although in fairness they had comprehensively outplayed us in every other facet as well. 

chippyclarke

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #751 on: December 21, 2020, 11:31:24 AM »
And that says it all. I reckon even I’d have a chance of putting a reasonable team together for £210m, but a football God would struggle with just 7% of that money.

But Albion have always been the same, all through my lifetime. If they could do it on the cheap, they would. We’d spend ages looking at players before someone else signed them (the likes of Paul Mariner), we wouldn’t gamble £5k on Cyrille Regis, we repeatedly sold our best players and we built a Halfords Lane stand that was out of date and modest even by the standards of 1980. And we had a very good team and money coming in at that time, but never let ambition stand in the way of saving a few quid.

So in some ways it’s how we’ve always been. It’s amazing we’ve managed to spend as much time as we have in the top flight since my first game in Feb 1973.
You seem to have forgotten that we paid £450K for David Mills - the most expensive transfer at that time!

wbastrollers

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #752 on: December 21, 2020, 11:35:15 AM »
Sam Allardyce has a monumental task in front of him. We’ve had nothing but dire football for 12 months now. It’s going to take effort to turn this round.

Ha! Ha!  The boot is now on the other foot.
You are going to have great difficulty in defending the football we are about to endure by blaming the fitness of the squad - as you have on another post?

TheJacko2000

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #753 on: December 21, 2020, 11:46:42 AM »
Ha! Ha!  The boot is now on the other foot.
You are going to have great difficulty in defending the football we are about to endure by blaming the fitness of the squad - as you have on another post?

They are extremely unfit though?
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hillsm

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #754 on: December 21, 2020, 01:32:16 PM »
The substitutions made sense to me. At 1-0 and the way the game was playing out our best chance of an equaliser was to get something from a set-piece. Austin is probably our most clinical finisher and Ivanovic has scored goals frequently during his career from such situations.

At 1-0 with 10 men, I think the tactics were spot on. Obviously once the second goal goes in the game is done but for us to have a chance of getting something going into the last 10 minutes of the game showed know-how from Big Sam, in contrast to the capitulation against Palace.

Unfortunately, I think targeting set-pieces for goal will have to be our way forward. Keep it as tight as we can at the back, play more direct, win set-pieces and actually use the set-pieces. It's a crying shame that in two years we've gone from being very clinical from set-pieces to being pretty hopeless. They are such a big part of the game and we need to take advantage of them from now on, as let's face it, with our squad we aren't going to be able to 'out-football' any teams in this league.

alex1

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #755 on: December 21, 2020, 02:05:41 PM »
One point we have to question is why did we wait until the 78th and 83rd minutes to make our substitutions? The only possible argument might be that we wanted to protect our already poor goal difference. But most important is getting points on the board. 
Substituting that late you are only going to have 3 or 4 attacks at the most.
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

TheJacko2000

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #756 on: December 21, 2020, 02:23:58 PM »
One point we have to question is why did we wait until the 78th and 83rd minutes to make our substitutions? The only possible argument might be that we wanted to protect our already poor goal difference. But most important is getting points on the board. 
Substituting that late you are only going to have 3 or 4 attacks at the most.

Because of what happened virtually as soon as we did it. It's a roll of the dice only earned by keeping it at one nil until the last 15 minutes.
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smethwickw

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #757 on: December 21, 2020, 02:24:10 PM »
Big Sam looked completely shell shocked in his post match interview. I don't think he expected to witness something so bad. We will need another 4/5 starters to stand any chance whatsoever.

Fritzl Palace

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #758 on: December 21, 2020, 02:53:35 PM »
To be fair to Big Sam, in the couple of minutes following the switch and before their second goal, we had started to keep the ball a bit better, it did seem to be working. Sadly, Ajayi then proceeded to gift them two goals and the rest was history, not something Big Sam could legislate for.

alex1

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #759 on: December 21, 2020, 03:27:03 PM »
Because of what happened virtually as soon as we did it. It's a roll of the dice only earned by keeping it at one nil until the last 15 minutes.
Being down to 10 gives some excuse, but I hope this won't be the shape of things if we are 11 v 11.  Normally when you are behind in a football match you make changes, whether tactical or substitutions. Normally at half time, but certainly not later than 60 minutes. To pin all our hopes on the last 10 minutes, the odds are stacked against.
 
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

elmo_in_swansea

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #760 on: December 21, 2020, 03:36:48 PM »
Had to go to bed right on the final whistle, should have retired earlier! & only just got on from work so couldn't comment before now!
I'll give Sam the benefit of the doubt, but setting up to defend away to Manchester City is one thing, but the same 11 and set up at home to Aston f ing Villa well was just asking for trouble, and so it was! I wonder how long it will be before the likes of pereira, diangana, krovinovic hand in transfer requests if the ball keeps sailing over their heads! Also, can a player request their loan be cancelled?
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gazberg

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #761 on: December 21, 2020, 03:36:59 PM »
Being down to 10 gives some excuse, but I hope this won't be the shape of things if we are 11 v 11.  Normally when you are behind in a football match you make changes, whether tactical or substitutions. Normally at half time, but certainly not later than 60 minutes. To pin all our hopes on the last 10 minutes, the odds are stacked against.

I'd say Sams strategy once we went down to 10 was keep it solid, keep it 1-0 and then we have 10-15mins to open up and go for the equalizer. Semi then went and had a mad 5 minutes similar to Ivanovich at Newcastle and single handedly threw it all out the window.

ttree30

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #762 on: December 21, 2020, 04:58:44 PM »
You seem to have forgotten that we paid £450K for David Mills - the most expensive transfer at that time!

I wondered if someone would mention that - and I hadn’t forgotten it at all. Who could?

If I recall correctly the main reason the club laid out the sum was because they’d made unbudgeted profits from the unexpected level of success and were facing a large tax bill.

In the next tax year (a few months later) they recouped almost double the sum by selling Laurie Cunningham. And the brief golden era of 1978-9 was over.

Mills for Cunningham and more than £400k in the bank. And we saved on the tax bill.

Typical Albion.


« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 05:03:20 PM by ttree30 »

wbastrollers

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #763 on: December 21, 2020, 05:10:16 PM »
They are extremely unfit though?

Well, Austin certainly is! Why, bring him on?
I am afraid Jacko - this is the usual diatribe from bitter fans and coaches who are not getting the expected bounce from the players.
 Blaming the outgoing coach can only last for a short time before the fans again become restless!  Allardyce needs a reaction from the players and pronto!


TheJacko2000

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #764 on: December 21, 2020, 05:13:48 PM »
Well, Austin certainly is! Why, bring him on?
I am afraid Jacko - this is the usual diatribe from bitter fans and coaches who are not getting the expected bounce from the players.
 Blaming the outgoing coach can only last for a short time before the fans again become restless!  Allardyce needs a reaction from the players and pronto!

We've conceded I believe 19 goals in the 2nd half of games this season. Numerous comments have been passed regards lack of fitness and intensity throughout this season, not just yesterday evening. The only people who appear bitter at this stage very early in the new managers tenure are the people who were against his appointment.
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Groovephil

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #765 on: December 21, 2020, 05:37:08 PM »
The difference is the level of fitness for me. We just look constantly leggy and slow. Villa, Leeds etc looks seriously ahead of us in these stakes.

But it’s not just physical fitness we look mentally tired which is where the mistakes come from in the second half of games.

Since the return after covid this has been a major issue. Sav never solved it, we have to hope Sam can but I can only see this happening with around 5 or 6 new players.

This won’t happen with this board.

gazberg

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #766 on: December 21, 2020, 05:42:48 PM »
Might be my shonky memory but i dont remember them being unfit during the fantastic first half of last season or am i wrong?


Come Jan they were exhausted and after the restart they seemed even worse and that has just continued. Get a new fitness coach in.

timdon

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #767 on: December 21, 2020, 09:21:27 PM »
Might be my shonky memory but i dont remember them being unfit during the fantastic first half of last season or am i wrong?


Come Jan they were exhausted and after the restart they seemed even worse and that has just continued. Get a new fitness coach in.
Nothing wrong with their fitness against Man City. Each and every one worked their socks off for the full 90+ minutes. Yet a few days later we need a new fitness coach.  ::)

gazberg

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #768 on: December 21, 2020, 10:07:52 PM »
Nothing wrong with their fitness against Man City. Each and every one worked their socks off for the full 90+ minutes. Yet a few days later we need a new fitness coach.  ::)

What do you put it down to Tim? If they can play like that for one game why didn't they manage it for the last 30+ games under Bilic and the first game under Allardyce?

timdon

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #769 on: December 21, 2020, 10:13:06 PM »
What do you put it down to Tim? If they can play like that for one game why didn't they manage it for the last 30+ games under Bilic and the first game under Allardyce?
They didn't play badly for all of the other games. Whatever the reasons for the poorer performances, one of them wasn't fitness. It's not something you can turn on and off.

gazberg

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #770 on: December 21, 2020, 10:22:38 PM »
If we look at the games since March especially the workrate has been terrible. If you dont think it's fitness then i can only think it's poor attitude or application so why spend all that money on them and fight so hard to bring them back?

timdon

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #771 on: December 21, 2020, 10:39:44 PM »
If we look at the games since March especially the workrate has been terrible. If you dont think it's fitness then i can only think it's poor attitude or application so why spend all that money on them and fight so hard to bring them back?
Well, I don't agree that the workrate has been terrible since March, so the rest of the discussion is immaterial.

gazberg

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #772 on: December 21, 2020, 10:56:15 PM »
Well, I don't agree that the workrate has been terrible since March, so the rest of the discussion is immaterial.

Tim has spoken. So it it written so it shall be done.

PartisanBaggie

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #773 on: December 21, 2020, 11:08:12 PM »
If we look at the games since March especially the workrate has been terrible. If you dont think it's fitness then i can only think it's poor attitude or application so why spend all that money on them and fight so hard to bring them back?

The fitness isn’t where it should be and hasn’t been for some time now Gaz. I’m really not sure why we’ve looked so drained for so long? It was even more noticeable after the 3 month hiatus and in my view hasn’t really improved.

timdon

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #774 on: December 21, 2020, 11:11:12 PM »
Tim has spoken. So it it written so it shall be done.
Haha. I don't agree that the workrate has been terrible since March. It's just a difference of opinion. No need for sarcasm or petty comments.  ;D