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West Bromwich Albion v Aston Villa
Sunday 15th December 2020 19.15pm
Please use this board for all your After Match Debate. Away fans are reminded to abide by the site rules.
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West Bromwich Albion v Aston Villa
Sunday 15th December 2020 19.15pm
Please use this board for all your In Game Chat. Opposition fans are reminded to abide by the site rules
Please keep this board Albion related, there are boards elsewhere in General Sports to discuss other games
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West Bromwich Albion v Aston Villa
Sunday 15th December 2020 19.15pm
Please use this board for all your Pre Match Chat. Opposition fans are reminded to abide by the site rules
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I understand preparations are being made to hold a lottery for 2000 tickets at £23.00 each (and only in the East Stand) for this game should Sandwell move down to tier 2
Full details here
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/hawthorns-return-will-be-significant-landmark-xu-ke
The ballot for the Villa game, which will be played on Sunday, December 20 (ko 7.15pm), will open on Monday, December 14 – before any changes in restrictions have been announced by Government. We believe this is the only practical way in which we can process ticket applications and health checks in the limited time we have available.
We have decided to offer tickets based on the matchday prices that were on offer when fans were last at The Hawthorns in March, with adult tickets priced at £23, while the normal concessionary rates will also be available. All 2,000 supporters will be located in the East Stand.
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Well hopefully the result v Man City gives the players the boost they need and if billic does go hopefully it doesn't stifle momentum. I would keep the same side that started v Man City but would be tempted to remove grant and start Robinson v his old Team
Based on results this far and how we could be without a manager or with somebody totally new I would take a point now.
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Well hopefully the result v Man City gives the players the boost they need and if billic does go hopefully it doesn't stifle momentum. I would keep the same side that started v Man City but would be tempted to remove grant and start Robinson v his old Team
Based on results this far and how we could be without a manager or with somebody totally new I would take a point now.
I hope we can go for the win. It's a winnable fixture and regardless of the managerial situation we're at home, and we should be treating it as such. Hopefully the players have belief, i certainly think we are more than capable of edging it, even if they are man for man a stronger side than us.
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Players should have more belief after last night. If Slavs in charge then no more 5 at the back. Give us a chance.
COYB
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Referee: Martin Atkinson
Assistant Referee: Lee Betts
Assistant Referee: Constantine Hatzidakis
Fourth Official: Robert Jones
Video Assistant Referee: Darren England
Additional Video Assistant Referee: Stephen Child
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Johnstone
Furlong Ajayi O'Shea Gibbs
Sawyers Krovinovic
Diangana Gallagher Robinson
Grant
Subs: Button, Ivanovic, Kipre, Livermore, Phillips, Grosicki, Austin
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This will be interesting now .
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It goes without saying that I want us to slap this lot all over the place. But I'm going to say it anyway. I want us to slap this lot all over the place. I'm hoping whomever comes in to replace Bilic has a simple and effective message to convey to the players and communicates it well. I'll worry about feeling dirty afterwards. Just....get....the....win.
COYB and SOTFnV 8) .
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Referee: Martin Atkinson
Assistant Referee: Lee Betts
Assistant Referee: Constantine Hatzidakis
Fourth Official: Robert Jones
Video Assistant Referee: Darren England
Additional Video Assistant Referee: Stephen Child
Oh dear. This is the clump who refereed and awarded the penalty against Kipre when we played Brentford in the League Cup. If he's still suffering visual hallucinations Grealish'll have a field day.
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Any idea what a Big Sam Albion team will look like?
I suspect a deep 4231. I don't think he will play both Furlong and Gibbs (I think Gibbs will play and potentially an O'Shea RB).
Livermore will occupy one of the defensive midfield roles. He could even move Ajayi into defensive midfield, like he did with Jan Kirkoff for Sunderland (he was also a centreback).
Phillips RM. He will want a forward who can hold the ball up? Austin, even Hal?
Very intriguing...
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Hopefully a positive will be that we have had 5 days rest before the game and they will only have had 2 having played on Friday night v Burnley.
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Would be interested to overhear what Smith says to Allerdyce pre-match. Wonder if it would be, 'you'd much rather have my job wouldn't you!'
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I have always found Martin Atkinson one of the better Prem league refs.
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Hopefully a positive will be that we have had 5 days rest before the game and they will only have had 2 having played on Friday night v Burnley.
They play on Thursday.
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Cannot see Sam lining up with five at the back unless he is adament that we will not concede at all costs in this one, but I have always seen him preferring a four.
What I think the team will be:
Johnstone
Furlong Ajayi O'Shea Gibbs
Livermore Gallagher
Robinson Okocha Diangana
Grant
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Cannot see Sam lining up with five at the back unless he is adament that we will not concede at all costs in this one, but I have always seen him preferring a four.
What I think the team will be:
Johnstone
Furlong Ajayi O'Shea Gibbs
Livermore Gallagher
Robinson Okocha Diangana
Grant
Have you had a brainstorm?
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Cannot see Sam lining up with five at the back unless he is adament that we will not concede at all costs in this one, but I have always seen him preferring a four.
What I think the team will be:
Johnstone
Furlong Ajayi O'Shea Gibbs
Livermore Gallagher
Robinson Okocha Diangana
Grant
Is this the Okocha who retired in 2007 or have I missed a new signing.
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They play on Thursday.
My error, still we have 2 days more rest
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Tonight's game Vs Burnley hardly got going. Hard to see anyone who has stretched themselves sadly
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Winnable if we are organised.
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I think we must be the only club that never seem to benefit from the new manager bounce.
We could do with that changing on Sunday.
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Think it will be a tough game on the weekend, heard Barkley may be back for Villa which is huge for them. I'd take a draw right now to be honest. What are your score predictions?
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Head says 1-2, heart says 3-0. If Big Sam can get a result against the true enemy, it will be a great start for him. SOTV.
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I believe we should get someone to man mark Grealish, he is their only threat! The perfect way to start would be with a win.
We can hit them on the counter attack.
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Given that when we appoint managers I don't like, they tend to start quite well, I think we'll nick a 1-0, and it'll all fall apart by the return.
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2-1 Albion
Big game this is
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I feel more optimistic playing the Vile on Sunday than I did after the Newcastle game finished last Saturday.
Think it’ll be tight because neither side wants to lose this one. I reckon a 1-1 draw.
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2-1 Albion
Big game this is
That would be fantastic Tom! I hope you’re prediction comes true mate 🤞🏻
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Fancy Gallagher to nick one in a tight game. 1 - 0 Albion. :D
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I just hope the players are up for this the "real" derby if so we can beat this lot.
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1-1
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0-0
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0-3 >:(
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5-0.
well...2-1. A goal from a corner, O'Shea. And Gallagher again. The greasy bugger for them.
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1 - 0 villa, last minute Grelish pen :-[
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2-2
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I don't think marking Grealish is on, I just hope the ref keeps an eye on hist nasty tricks.
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Sod the politics! I’ve already started oiling my wheels for this one. Not going to watch it with my only vile friend this time. I couldn’t possibly listen to his vile ramblings. Total focus on our new era. Different bar.. no vilers.. and gallons of Estralla Galicia. Nothing less than an emphatic win for me. SOTV!!
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2-0 to them. Hope to be wrong of course
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Shame that because of COVID and not being at the ground, I don’t have that Derby feeling for this one :(
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The odds certainly do appear to be stacked against us, but then again they were against Man City, never forget this is the baggies ;)
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Can’t see anything but a Villa win they are a quick powerful team which will make ours look powderpuff & lightweight. God I hope I’m wrong as I’d love nothing more to rip into them spent £200m and they couldn’t beat the Albion.
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Hoping for a draw 1-1!
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Hit them early-they won't come back. 2-1 home win
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Is it possible to have two 7-0 results in the same round?
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Same as the team that started v man city
Johnstone
Furlong ajayi oshea Gibbs
Sawyers
Livermore Gallagher
Phillips diangana
Grant
Last chance saloon for grant. Think Robinson should be getting some game time. He may well do the business v his old club.
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Feels like a massive game today for our future.
Winning puts us back in the mix but beyond that the feel good factor and belief will soar. I also expect you’ll see a lot of fans walk back their initial opinions on Allardyce a little.
The extend of a psychological lift here is probably one that cannot be equalled by future matches given the circumstances and the opponent.
It is anyone’s guess if we will capitalise on it though.
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Is it possible to have two 7-0 results in the same round?
in the same round? Not sure what you mean, it's a league not a cup.
To be pedantic it was a 0-7 result, nobody on here wants that! 7-0 would be a Yuletide miracle.
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Winning puts us back in the mix but beyond that the feel good factor and belief will soar. I also expect you’ll see a lot of fans walk back their initial opinions on Allardyce a little.
JC, I will be the ultimate word-eater! Happily. COYB.
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I posted this before the Man City game and I like to think it was of some assistance. So, letting superstition get the better of me, here goes again COYB!!!!
"In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, Amen! :-["
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I posted this before the Man City game and I like to think it was of some assistance. So, letting superstition get the better of me, here goes again COYB!!!!
"In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, Amen! :-["
Amen Brother Colin.
COYB and SOTV 8) .
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JC, I will be the ultimate word-eater! Happily. COYB.
To be fair coseley, I think some people were a bit over the top because Bilic was extremely likeable and the way it came about did leave a bit of a sour taste. I think Allardyce is sensible appointment but by no means guarantees we will stay up.
However I also accept though that there are reasons to not like Allardyce (I wouldn’t say I necessarily like him either) so can see why when you add the Bilic situation and Allardyce together you had a recipe for outrage. Some people have already softened though and nothing will help more than results.
Hopefully today’s a day we put in a performance and get a win. If that’s too much too ask, just the win will do!
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Interesting fact:
We are unbeaten in 8 games against these in all competitions
Need to extend that run tonight
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Interesting fact:
We are unbeaten in 8 games against these in all competitions
Need to extend that run tonight
I wish you hadn't told me that tuamigos, now I'm more worried than ever :D
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Interesting fact:
We are unbeaten in 8 games against these in all competitions
Need to extend that run tonight
We've lost 3 out of the last 8 against Villa, won 2 and 3 draws
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Very much looking forward to this evenings game, as much as I was dreading it prior to the managerial change. Feel we will be much more competitive on and importantly off the pitch (with officials, media etc.)
Team selection amnesty for me for the next 6 games.
Come on you Baggies.
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We've lost 3 out of the last 8 against Villa, won 2 and 3 draws
Well, that makes me feel a little better knowing that ;D
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Well, that makes me feel a little better knowing that ;D
If he meant at home then yes unbeaten in 8 but not all games
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We've lost 3 out of the last 8 against Villa, won 2 and 3 draws
Unbeaten in last 8 home games dating back to a 1-2 defeat in September 2008. The Leon Barnett game. At fault for both goals, Carew and Agbonlahor. Mozza for us.
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Unbeaten in last 8 home games dating back to a 1-2 defeat in September 2008. The Leon Barnett game. At fault for both goals, Carew and Agbonlahor. Mozza for us.
Remember it well.
Unfortunately stats like these are pretty pointless in these Covid times
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If he meant at home then yes unbeaten in 8 but not all games
I'm worried again now, can you all sort it out and just let me know please.
Yours, extremely worried :D
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Unbeaten in last 8 home games dating back to a 1-2 defeat in September 2008. The Leon Barnett game. At fault for both goals, Carew and Agbonlahor. Mozza for us.
I remember the game very well.... and the post match exchange of pleasantries ;) .
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I feel sick allready
Despite living in Wolverhampton my whole life, its only on Derby day do I really appreciate the depths that I hate hate hate those see you next Thursdays from Witton.
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I feel sick allready
Despite living in Wolverhampton my whole life, its only on Derby day do I really appreciate the depths that I hate hate hate those see you next Thursdays from Witton.
Never liked that lot ever since I started work and saw what obnoxious horrible fans they are, 3rd division rubbish they were then although from their attitude you wouldn't have known it, hate them with a passion.
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I think stopping Grealish may be key. Without giving lots of free kicks away around the edge of the penalty area. Pity we haven't got the full house behind us which might have helped us gain the upper hand.
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I think stopping Grealish may be key. Without giving lots of free kicks away around the edge of the penalty area. Pity we haven't got the full house behind us which might have helped us gain the upper hand.
Stand on his main supplier of the ball and deny his involvement at source.
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Stand on his main supplier of the ball and deny his involvement at source.
Exactly. Pressure Matt Targett and force the infield pass rather than up the line. Likewise block the passing lane from central midfield (McGinn, Barkley etc)
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Lot of money gone on Villa since yesterday looking at current odds. Hopefully we prove them wrong and as always SOTV
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Would be amazing to win this game tonight, but you can't help these juicy buggers will have things go their way and get the win. I would settle for a draw and a promising performance. COYB.
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Amen Brother Colin.
COYB and SOTV 8) .
Are we playing the Wolves ?!!
Adeste Fideles, laeti trimphantes
COYB!!
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First time with pre-match nerves for me this season. 😬
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First time with pre-match nerves for me this season. 😬
Same. I hate 'em, really hate 'em.
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Really interested to see how we line up. Three at the back is surely a goner. 442?
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First time with pre-match nerves for me this season. 😬
Just think how the vilers must be feeling 😂
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Really interested to see how we line up. Three at the back is surely a goner. 442?
I'm not reading too much into this 1st team selection or set-up regards how we move forward. Will be a punt from Big Sam imo.
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Don’t care if it’s a scuffed shot, an OG, a jammy against run of play robbery, just beat the Vile scum. SOTV.
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Really interested to see how we line up. Three at the back is surely a goner. 442?
I'd imagine it will be 4-5-1, possibly similar to the city game.
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Team is
Johnstone
O Shea
Ajayi
Gibbs
Furlong
Phillips
Livermore
Gallagher
Sawyers
Diangana
Grant
Bench -Button, Ivanovich, Kipre, Peltier, Krov, Edwards, Gros, Austin Robsinon
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Is that unchanged? They deserve it
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Is that unchanged? They deserve it
Yes
No Barkley for Villa
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Unchanged then?
As I said no quibbles from me until at least after the FA Cup game.
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Got to give him games to tinker, Bilic had 60ish and was never sure.
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They put the effort and commitment they did against City they have a good chance!
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Got to give him games to tinker, Bilic had 60ish and was never sure.
Haha! 😜
Nervously excited Gaz. Last time we had such an experienced Premier League manager make his debut during a local derby it was Roy Hodgson against the Dingles. Carlos Vela popped up with a 94th minute equaliser to break those Dingles hearts during that fixture.
Here’s to hoping lightning strikes twice in the same place 🤞🏻
BOING BOING
🔵⚪ï¸âš½ï¸🔵⚪ï¸
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The team that got the draw at City deserved another game.
Allardyce has kept faith with that side. Fair play to him.
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He’ll probably get plenty of chance to tinker over the next couple of weeks . Playing Sunday and Tuesday next week for a start !
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Those pre match nerves are kicking in now :D
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Win this, and we are only 9 points behind the spendthrifts.
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We've lost 3 out of the last 8 against Villa, won 2 and 3 draws
Sorry I should have said at home
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Allardyce has only lost 1 of his first matches in charge, hopefully that run continues tonight.
I wish people wouldn’t share things like this, it just makes me more nervous about the law of averages :o
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Hate these with a passion! COYB.
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Unusual.... 2 English managers in the Premiership.
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Allardyce has only lost 1 of his first matches in charge, hopefully that run continues tonight.
I wish people wouldn’t share things like this, it just makes me more nervous about the law of averages :o
Took him 6 games to get his first victory at Palace
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I-3 Villa
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Allardyce has only lost 1 of his first matches in charge, hopefully that run continues tonight.
I wish people wouldn’t share things like this, it just makes me more nervous about the law of averages :o
Was against us too as Sunderland boss.
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Unusual.... 2 English managers in the Premiership.
Dudley vs Halesowen i believe?
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2-1, Grant(2)
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West Brom, West Brom, we hate Villa ..... repeat for 45 mins, then have a break at half time.
SOTV
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I predict that no matter the score, I will still hate was fishy Vile lot at full time.
SOTV
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Heart says 1-0 to the Baggies Mind says 2-0 to them with the Slimey Greaseball Grealish falling over twice to give them a Free kick and Penalty after they fail to break us down for 85 Minutes
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West Brom, West Brom, we hate Villa ..... repeat for 45 mins, then have a break at half time.
SOTV
LOL, remember we hate villa chant going on forever in a cup game at vila park.
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I predict that no matter the score, I will still hate was fishy Vile lot at full time.
SOTV
10000%
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COYB. We kicked off.
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Think we will win this. We've not been playing badly and just needed that little bit of luck in some games.
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The Liquidator playing at an empty Hawthorns **** Off Villa West Brom hopefully Big Sam hates Villa as much as we do
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Wakey wakey Albion.
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Why is that not a yellow card? He deliberately caught it.
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Handling outside the area?!
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Red Card he handled outside the Box unless they changed the rules
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Argghh. 0-1
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Rollocks.
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Even 5 live think it should be a red card unless the rules changed.
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Good goal tbf.
Poor defending and goal keeping though
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1-0 El Gazhi same old same old Albion
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Game over!
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Awful defending
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Rules changed so it wasn't a straight red any more. Sure it's a yellow though.
Keeper needed to come and claim that, he's hit it at waist height 1 yard from the goal and almost in line with the post.
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For all his good performances Johnstone has to deal with that. Dreadful Albion.
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Johnstone resumes normal service.
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Furlong switched off. Too easy.
SJ needed to get that as well.
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Another joke decision which has cost us.
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Isn’t it at least a yellow for handling outside the box? Where was var there?
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SJ got it all wrong
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Didn't need VAR. The ref saw it.
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Awful defending.
Can’t see us getting anything from this one now, we have such a poor squad
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What has Big Sam done then he kept Bilic's team from our last game maybe they are demoralised COYB. VAR needed but not used but no excuse for the goal it wasn't as Jammy as Vile can usually get. Already hear Big Sam screaming at the team.
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They're all over us.
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Livermore has started well.
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Corner a Big Sam special
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Which we waste. Now no one give a reason for Greasy to fall over and make the most of it
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Losing every individual battle here
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Looked more organised with Slav in our last game than Big Sam who is a Defensive Coach so far
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McGinn is a troublesome player.
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I think it’s far too early to be judging Big Sam’s impact. Villa look very sharp and when did McGinn get so fast?!
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Sawyers is so terrible
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Keep Sawyer's away from our defensive third he's an absolute liability there
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Superb that for Ajayi after poor play by OShea.
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Johnstone phew
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Sawyers just should play further up the pitch
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I think it’s far too early to be judging Big Sam’s impact. Villa look very sharp and when did McGinn get so fast?!
No it’s not.
Everyone with open eyes can see big sams style, everyone with knowledge of football knows this appointment is ridiculous..... the next few games will verify that.
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Sawyers just should play further up the pitch
Sawyers should not be any where near the pitch
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Getting exactly what we deserve as a club.
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Listening to commentary on Five Dead. Hardly any coverage of the game, just continued burble. Very irritating.
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We seem to just be sitting it back, whacking it long and then having it come right back at us again. Nobody in the defence is trying to pick a pass into the midfield, just... hoof!
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We seem to just be sitting it back, whacking it long and then having it come right back at us again. Nobody in the defence is trying to pick a pass into the midfield, just... hoof!
Where have I seen that "Hoofball"?
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I see the Vile have got the 12th man tonight with the ref firmly in claret and blue 👎🏻
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Listening to commentary on Five Dead. Hardly any coverage of the game, just continued burble. Very irritating.
You would never that it was Big Sam's first game or that we are managed by Sam Allardyce
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Where have I seen that "Hoofball"?
It'll be long throws into the box next.....
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No it’s not.
Everyone with open eyes can see big sams style, everyone with knowledge of football knows this appointment is ridiculous..... the next few games will verify that.
Yes it is totally ridiculous. He as come in and stuck with the team that played so well at City if he had changed it he would have been slaughtered. But we all know that some of you on here can't wait for him to fail that is disgusting because if he fails that means Albion fail.
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I see the Vile have got the 12th man tonight with the ref firmly in claret and blue 👎🏻
Agreed. Doesn't seem interested in us at all
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No it’s not.
Everyone with open eyes can see big sams style, everyone with knowledge of football knows this appointment is ridiculous..... the next few games will verify that.
What a load of rubbish.
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Gibbs needs to close them down quicker in the left.
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Getting exactly what we deserve as a club.
Yep. Game over. Season over. Laughing stock.
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Yes it is totally ridiculous. He as come in and stuck with the team that played so well at City if he had changed it he would have been slaughtered. But we all know that some of you on here can't wait for him to fail that is disgusting because if he fails that means Albion fail.
I don't think it would be that outrageous to change the side - playing against Villa should be different than playing against Man City.
Unless our approach is to defend for our lives for 90 mins again. Oh. it is.
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Not sure what some of these posts are about. It's a competitive game and but for a goalkeeping error we'd still have parity. Plenty left in this for us.
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Agreed. Doesn't seem interested in us at all
No Gaz, he doesn’t.
The failure to produce a yellow card on the Vile keeper when he handled the ball outside the area set the tone I’m afraid.
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Furlong is pub!
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Red Card surely for handling outside the Box
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Red Card surely for handling outside the Box
Big Sam football, defence simply lump it forward and often straight out of play
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Awful hoof from O'Shea there - missed his man by about 20-30 yards.
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Not sure what some of these posts are about. It's a competitive game and but for a goalkeeping error we'd still have parity. Plenty left in this for us.
Plenty of the game to go yet Jacko 👍🏻
We need to be more confident and quicker in our build up play. That’s how we’ll hurt the Vile.
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Terrible to watch. Still can’t defend. Johnstone woeful for their goal. Now we can’t pass the ball either or mount an attack. Back to bodies deep behind the ball and hoofs to a stranded Grant. Just like how we used to hoof it to Rondon.
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They are so much quicker than us.
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Have we had a touch in their box yet?
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Not sure what some of these posts are about. It's a competitive game and but for a goalkeeping error we'd still have parity. Plenty left in this for us.
There’s always a chance we can come back, however they are far superior to us
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They are so much quicker than us.
Livermore, Gibbs and Phillips are football OAPS.
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Not sure what some of these posts are about. It's a competitive game and but for a goalkeeping error we'd still have parity. Plenty left in this for us.
I'm sure you have read up on the Allerdyce pages the majority on here hate him and can't wait for him to fail not bothering that if he fails we fail. You wait untill the after match thread if we lose this!!
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No different to under Bilic atm. Needs time to get his own message across
Villa have upped their game and I’m sure that’s down to Smith who loves to beat us.
We’re making them look better than they actually are.
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Not sure why people are slating Allardyce here :-X
We have an awful squad. We were going down under Bilic, chances are we will go down under Allardyce. You get what you pay for...
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No different to under Bilic atm. Needs time to get his own message across
Villa have upped their game and I’m sure that’s down to Smith who loves to beat us.
We’re making them look better than they actually are.
Yes there is the players tried for Bilic.
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We look shattered already. Everything played like it's a training game from us. Would expect that to slowly vanish as time goes on.
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I'm sure you have read up on the Allerdyce pages the majority on here hate him and can't wait for him to fail not bothering that if he fails we fail. You wait untill the after match thread if we lose this!!
You'd think everyone would be pleased, this is exactly like a home game under Bilić... getting beat to a soft goal.
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I'm sure you have read up on the Allerdyce pages the majority on here hate him and can't wait for him to fail not bothering that if he fails we fail. You wait untill the after match thread if we lose this!!
I don’t like Big Sam, however I certainly don’t want the team to fail.
I maintain this squad are simply not good enough, Bilic was not the main problem
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Not sure why people are slating Allardyce here :-X
We have an awful squad. We were going down under Bilic, chances are we will go down under Allardyce. You get what you pay for...
I'd rather be in the champ playing Bilic's brand of football than Allardyce's. Even when Sam had West Ham 3rd the fans were protesting.
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Why are people acting like we're playing any different than we've been playing all season under Bilic? Slow, ponderous with no ideas. Nothing different and regardless of the manager same result, relegation.
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Midfield need to carry the ball into their half. Stop the hoof.
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Very poor so far. Absolutely no outlet and about 10 seconds behind Villa at every point.
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Furlong struggling tonight for me. Shame after he's been decent recently
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Furlong is awful. We desperately need a new right back
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Why are people acting like we're playing any different than we've been playing all season under Bilic? Slow, ponderous with no ideas. Nothing different and regardless of the manager same result, relegation.
With Bilic we didn't just hoof it though did we. Anyway I think Big Sam has woke up he is barking out orders.
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Livermore on Grealish. Wow.
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Yes there is the players tried for Bilic.
Well if that's the case and they are not going to try then sack them aswell.
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Why are people acting like we're playing any different than we've been playing all season under Bilic? Slow, ponderous with no ideas. Nothing different and regardless of the manager same result, relegation.
Think it's called Stockholm Syndrome.
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Not keen on Allardyce as a manager personally, but it's not his fault he got the job! I'll support him as manager of the club I support, but I don't agree with how the club is being run and managed at the moment!
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You'd think everyone would be pleased, this is exactly like a home game under Bilić... getting beat to a soft goal.
This is as bad as we've played all season - 30 mins gone and we've not offered even a hint of a threat at the Villa goal. Closest we've come to a threat was the goal keeper handling a long ball that bounced through.
Livermore lucky to not see a red there. Oh, bound to VAR will call him over.....
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I'd rather be in the champ playing Bilic's brand of football than Allardyce's. Even when Sam had West Ham 3rd the fans were protesting.
Maybe so, but I don't see much different to this performance compared to what I have seen from us all season. Maybe it's just me? Sheffield United we won 1-0 but were awful and should have lost it by 5.
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You watch var send him off here
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VAR getting involved
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Red card coming
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Here we go red. Even though Livermore was trying to get in front of Grealish.
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Something for Grealish to fall over for at least
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Can someone tell our lads this is a big Derby game?
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Livermore is a joke.
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Captain fantastico...
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He's off
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Game over. We couldn't even compete in this with 11 men.
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It's a definite red.
Our captain. Shame as he's actually played quite well by his standards.
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Captain crapastico
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Is that the 3rd man VAR has sent off or the 4th?
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Absolute idiot.
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Ridiculous tackle off him.
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Our discipline is awful. One of the softest teams in the whole.lesgue and how many reds?
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No issues. Straight red. Incomparable with Pereira.
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Morrison said he barely touched him in commentary, but he's not surprised it was a red. Weird.
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Silly tackle, but he has got the ball there hasn’t he?
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3 red cards in the first half of games already this season, absolutely ridiculous stuff. Its hard enough to win in the premier as it is without essentially throwing away games by doing that.
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What a clown!
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Foot was too high.
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Morrison said he barely touched him in commentary, but he's not surprised it was a red. Weird.
He went in high and then brough his leg down onto ball
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Our discipline this year has been awful, didn’t need to make that tackle.
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I'd rather he got sent off for a proper horror challenge than that. He's just tried to get his body across in front of Grealish and drag the ball back into him.
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More of a red then Pereira was. 50/50 it was going to be a red.
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I’ve switched off again.
I think a yellow was more than enough for that.
Keeper didn’t get a booking for his handling outside the area but our player gets 1 card, then rescinded then upgraded.
Bored of football
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Play advantage Ref!
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FFS ref, advantage?
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What a stupid tackle. There was just no need..
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Terrible tackle by a useless player.
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Haven't seen the challenge but it's a non contact sport now, one of the reasons I'm becoming disallusioned with football at professional level
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Win the ball and got sent off shocking decision.
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Get Courtney Hause off!!
That’s a RED.
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Didnt see anything wrong with that challenge. 50/50 ball that both went for and Jake just hooked it out. VAR is completely ruining the game.
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Var says no red
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If ours was a red that has to be.
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Never touched him but if you leap with a high foot like that it's asking for trouble.
I'm finished with the game it's now a trial by tv.
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Disgraceful. That was worse than Livermore's!
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Morrison said he barely touched him in commentary, but he's not surprised it was a red. Weird.
They said after it was because Grealish wears his socks so low so it makes it look worse though Livermore didn't touch him by much. Also how did Villa not have a man sent off then FC's they should be down to 9 as last time I knew Handling outside the box was a red card yet again it is like Against Wolves as Grealish should have been sent off but surprise surprise Greasy wasn't
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That's red too, crazy these decisions.
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Theirs was a red if ours was a red. Joke but not a surprise.
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I’ve switched off again.
I think a yellow was more than enough for that.
Keeper didn’t get a booking for his handling outside the area but our player gets 1 card, then rescinded then upgraded.
Bored of football
It gets worse. Villa player nowhere near the ball at all - stamps down on Diangana's shin. Ref gives yellow - VAR looks at it, yellow. Way more of a dangerous contact than Livermore's.
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I’ve switched off again.
I think a yellow was more than enough for that.
Keeper didn’t get a booking for his handling outside the area but our player gets 1 card, then rescinded then upgraded.
Bored of football
This. Something is seriously wrong and you can’t help but feel the refs certainly have it in fir us.
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What annoys me, as I’ve said in the var thread, is that it clearly wasn’t a clear and obvious mistake if var hasn’t overturned it right away and suggested the ref has another look himself.
Also, how’s that villa challenge not a red as well then?
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Grealish has just walked past Sawyers
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Tell me the difference between the 2 tackles....ridiculous
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Theirs was a red if ours was a red. Joke but not a surprise.
Who is making these calls. Ones an ankle breaker the other won ball
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Tell me the difference between the 2 tackles....ridiculous
It depends on what shirt you wear.
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Win the ball and got sent off shocking decision.
Should not be a red card I totally agree with you.
Then their guy stamps stud first on Diangana, no red.
Just a joke.
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I cant wait to get relegated from this disgraceful sham of a league and have a fair playing field again for once. I honestly dont care when we get beat atm because it means its one step closer to a fair and enjoyable level of football.
I genuinely hope we lose every single week to make sure we get away from this league asap and to be fair the club deserves everything they get.
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They didn’t even ask him to look at it. It’s absolutely ridiculous how we get absolutely nothing.
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That has to be a red too. I can’t believe they barely look at it
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Can someone tell me how one is a red and the other a yellow. Utter disgrace , Livermore stupid and reckless
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The officials must have this down as an away win.
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Last time we had 10 at home, we conceded 4 goals in the 2nd half, what's the chances of that happening again?
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Who is making these calls. Ones an ankle breaker the other won ball
So corrupt.
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Livermore's was a red in the current climate...but so was that from Hause :-X
Will we ever get a big decision in our favour this season?
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The lack of consistency with var decisions is outrageous. How can the same tackle 60 seconds aper send one man off and barely look at the other one? What a joke
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VAR close calls all seem to go against us
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FFS, this is just pointless now. Every time a villa player falls over it's a free kick.
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Free kick to them close to the box.
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You can't believe that we are getting screwed over by referee/VAR so consistently. You keep thinking we're going to get something go our way but it's still all going against us.
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I'm almost certain under this manager we won't crumble to a 5 goal defeat as we have done previously when reduced to 10 men.
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What gets me is the time spent on VAR decisions against us compared to VAR that may benefit us.
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I can at least see what Livermore was trying to do - he's trying to get his body in front of Grealish and his foot over the ball to drag it back under his control. Scraped Grealish slightly but because he's in the air he gets sent off.
How the villa player wasn't sent off I don't know. His challenge was far more dangerous and likely to do damage but just a yellow - AND the ref had stopped us having a 2v1.
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The more you look at it the more it does really look like cheating.
We get nothing.
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We really are struggling, even allowing for a man short this is as bad as we've been all season.
So much for the new manager bounce
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HT 0-1
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This VAR thing is a scam Greasy clearly made most of Livermore's challenge, Hause stamps on Grady no Red :o
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Completely outplayed in every area of the pitch.
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HT
If one's a red so is the other.
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You can't believe that we are getting screwed over by referee/VAR so consistently. You keep thinking we're going to get something go our way but it's still all going against us.
That's what I was saying - we've not had a single decision go our way yet. If the opposition have done something dodgy VAR hasn't batted an eye lid. If we give the VAR ref even a hint of an excuse it's not given or we end up with player's sent off.
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I see we are still getting the VAR decisions, LOL what a joke league.
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We really are struggling, even allowing for a man short this is as bad as we've been all season.
So much for the new manager bounce
First few games are a write off for a new manager. Just unlucky his first game is Villa
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We've beat thes with 10 men before, mind you that team had a bit more character
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Will the pundits even mention the Villa red I wonder?
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I cant wait to get relegated from this disgraceful sham of a league and have a fair playing field again for once. I honestly dont care when we get beat atm because it means its one step closer to a fair and enjoyable level of football.
I genuinely hope we lose every single week to make sure we get away from this league asap and to be fair the club deserves everything they get.
Echo this.
VAR has just provided another out for the shocking standard of refereeing in the league. Another game totally ruined by a nonsense red.
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First few games are a write off for a new manager. Just unlucky his first game is Villa
What, have you never heard of the "new manager bounce"????
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That’s the worst performance I’ve ever seen in a Derby. That was atrocious.
Regardless of VAR.
As for VAR - they’re both red cards. Amazing really.
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We’ve not managed a shot on target or any possession inside their box. We were so deep we barely touched the football inside their half. Everything about that was awful.
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We really are struggling, even allowing for a man short this is as bad as we've been all season.
So much for the new manager bounce
Presume you missed the Fulham game? Or the Southampton game?
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Will the pundits even mention the Villa red I wonder?
No but they mention Livermore on Greasy
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Unless we sign 4/5 PL standard players then no one is going to keep this shower up.
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If Grealish was the other side of the ball then I'd think it was more of a red, as it was Livermore almost has his back to him as he's trying to get across in front.
I can see why it's given, but still a touch harsh - but once that's given how can they not give the stamp down from the Villa player? Compare that contact to Livermore's or Periera's.
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What, have you never heard of the "new manager bounce"????
Yeah but Sam deserves the same time as Bilic but I think he will improve us quicker than Bilic would have. Need a few full weeks with the squad. 2 training sessions aren't enough. Poor performance though no doubt.
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There was a challenge far worse than Livermores 's by Arsenal yesterday, wasn't even reviewed. In order to be fair it has to be all or nothing but its not. Legal corruption yet again, referees cheating in plain sight.
The league is bent as a two bob note and is now unwatchable for normal fans.
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As Glenn Hoddle says we can't hold onto the ball. So Villa are controlling the midfield. You can see SJ's been told not to play the ball out from the back. Just one shot on target.
As we're down to 10, I can see us just going long and hoping for a lucky bounce.
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Joking apart, we look better without Jake on the pitch.
Plus he can now enjoy his Christmas dinner and have a few bevvies on New Years eve
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Personally no problem for me with the two VAR decisions. Whilst we have seen people sent off for what Hause did, in reality it was a misplaced foot whilst trying to intercept whereas Livermore's was dangerous. It was so incredibly stupid from Livermore who was kicking Grealish at every opportunity which isn't big or clever.
Overall I think we look a little rushed and you can see the directive to be more direct. Grant doesn't look suited to it at all, nor Diangana, will be interesting to see how Pereira handles it - can see him getting frustrated.
Very concerned for the second half, let's hope we can defend well and nick something on a counter or set piece.
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How many red cards is that now due to poor discipline?
Three?
Brains the sizes of peas some of this lot.
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Unless we sign 4/5 PL standard players then no one is going to keep this shower up.
Agreed, we are struggling simply because the squad is not good enough.
Had Bilic been in charge of that first half performance he would have been slaughtered when in point of fact it’s down to the players again.
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Joking apart, we look better without Jake on the pitch.
Plus he can now enjoy his Christmas dinner and have a few bevvies on New Years eve
he was one of the better players in the first half and was excellent against Man City. Our problems in the middle of the pitch come from Sawyers just not interested in defending.
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Feels like a red card every other game.
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Allardyce is now realising we have a poor championship defence.
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How many red cards is that now due to poor discipline?
Three?
Brains the sizes of peas some of this lot.
Let's see if they capitulate as has been the norm.
I suspect they won't.
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5 red cards in 14 games just checked. what a joke
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That’s the worst performance I’ve ever seen in a Derby. That was atrocious.
Regardless of VAR.
As for VAR - they’re both red cards. Amazing really.
Agreed. Unforgivable performance and the ref use of VAR as ever the 12th man for the opposition. But we’ve been hit the ball long and high down the channels. That’s all we’ve got. I won’t switch off, I’ve never done that, but this is as close as I’ve got for both the performance and also that it doesn’t really matter because var will take the points either way.
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Will the pundits even mention the Villa red I wonder?
The BBC site can't understand those 2 decisions. It has also said they were both same.
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Agreed, we are struggling simply because the squad is not good enough.
Had Bilic been in charge of that first half performance he would have been slaughtered when in point of fact it’s down to the players again.
I don't think that we'd have had that performance under Bilic as he wouldn't have set us up to play the same way against Villa as we did against Man City.
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With a one goal difference, you've always got a chance.
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Even before the red we hadn't laid a glove on them. Second best all over the pitch.
Get Krov on for Sawyers who does nothing but simple sideways passes.
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Let's see if they capitulate as has been the norm.
I suspect they won't.
I won’t be allowed to post what I’d want to say, if they did..
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And Livermore was a average to poor premiership player 3 years ago. He’s worse now.
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What, have you never heard of the "new manager bounce"????
I don't fancy trying to lift SA, let alone throw him hard enough to make him bounce.
However much I'd like to.
OB
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How many red cards is that now due to poor discipline?
Three?
Brains the sizes of peas some of this lot.
Make it easy for these var lot , brainless from Livermore
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Still getting di**ed by the refs and VAR because we didn't make a fuss of it yet again the other week. They're not even giving us the courtesy of considering incidents that could go in our favour for as long as things that could go against us, or making the officials go and review the screen pitchside. It's gone way beyond a joke. Glad Livermore can't play for a few weeks though.
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Will the pundits even mention the Villa red I wonder?
That’ll be glossed over, no doubt.
Personally, I thought the Hause challenge was actually worse than the Livermore challenge.
I can accept our lack of discipline. But what I can’t accept is the biased.
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BT analysed both challenges and said Livermore red is correct but Hause is a yellow because he doesn't lunge but Livermore did.
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Joking apart, we look better without Jake on the pitch.
Plus he can now enjoy his Christmas dinner and have a few bevvies on New Years eve
What an awful spiteful comment. Jake was our best player until the sending off. Joking apart my backside
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BT analysed both challenges and said Livermore red is correct but Hause is a yellow because he doesn't lunge but Livermore did.
They haven’t got a ****in clue
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So the only person who gets to comment on the Villa red is the ref and the pundits don’t say a word. It’s unbelievable.
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Yeah ex ref said Hause trod on him but didn't fly in so yellow correct.
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BT analysed both challenges and said Livermore red is correct but Hause is a yellow because he doesn't lunge but Livermore did.
They are part of this Corrupt League so of course that's they are going to say
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BT analysed both challenges and said Livermore red is correct but Hause is a yellow because he doesn't lunge but Livermore did.
Hause's challenge was more of a stamp down onto the shin - he's nowhere near the actual ball.
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They are part of this Corrupt League so of course that's they are going to say
Don't shoot the messenger :D
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Peter Walton sticking up for his mates saying theirs wasn't a red because it wasn't a lunge. Rubbish. All in it together in the corruption
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BT analysed both challenges and said Livermore red is correct but Hause is a yellow because he doesn't lunge but Livermore did.
They did not even mention Livermore won the ball and Hause did not even go for it!
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That goes to all of you, blame.BT not me :P
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For me both reds
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Which one of the 3 challenges between Livermore, Periera and Hauses was most likely to cause injury? Hause's for me every time.
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Hause's challenge was more of a stamp down onto the shin - he's nowhere near the actual ball.
Absolutely this! It was a stamp nowhere near the ball.
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Don't shoot the messenger :D
Wasn't about to
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That’ll be glossed over, no doubt.
Personally, I thought the Hause challenge was actually worse than the Livermore challenge.
I can accept our lack of discipline. But what I can’t accept is the biased.
Thought Walton explained it quite well, I disagree with him though, if there had been excessive force Diangana would currently be suffering a compound leg break. Definite red card.
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It's a sickener guys but I'm used to it now.
5 red cards in 14 games for our lot who are the softest team in the league. VAR what a joke
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Loads of comments on here criticising VAR, handy distraction from how rubbish the team is. Livermore is a none-footballing immobile thug with a pea sized brain. Why would you make that lunging tackle on the half way line?
The less said about our pattern of play the better. Banned playing out from the back and we’ve just smashed it forwards and then run around like headless chickens.
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The sooner someone snaps Grealish's leg the better, the cheat had been diving all night.
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Hause even looked worried to me, looked like he thought he was off once referred to VAR. Says it all
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They did not even mention Livermore won the ball and Hause did not even go for it!
They didn't need to because he didn't. There is a clear 'still' of Livermore's studs on Jack Grealish' mid shin. Nowhere near the ball.
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Radio WM saying that Hause incident should have been reviewed by VAR
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Yeah ex ref said Hause trod on him but didn't fly in so yellow correct.
Peter Walton, ex-ref said one used "excessive force", the other didn't.
Make of that what you want.
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urine poor from Furlong on goal and Livermore is a fooking idiot for that tackle especially with our history with var. Eye opener for Sam me thinks even with his record, can he polish this turd me thinks not.
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The explanation at half time is that both were reckless, but Livermore managed to introduce the additional element of a lunge into his. Unbelievable....
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Peter Walton, ex-ref said one used "excessive force", the other didn't.
Make of that what you want.
He’s right. Hause didn’t jump into Diangana like a nut job.
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Thought Walton explained it quite well, I disagree with him though, if there had been excessive force Diangana would currently be suffering a compound leg break. Definite red card.
I didn’t agree with Walton’s BS for that very reason. Hause knew exactly what he was doing. I’d also like to note we were almost through on goal and Atkinson didn’t even allow us to play the advantage. The card could have been delivered straight afterwards.
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It's a sickener guys but I'm used to it now.
5 red cards in 14 games for our lot who are the softest team in the league. VAR what a joke
Who are the other two? Periera and Gibbs, who have a blocked out?
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Wonder if we can get out of 3rd gear today.
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I didn’t agree with Walton’s BS for that very reason. Hause knew exactly what he was doing. I’d also like to note we were almost through on goal and Atkinson didn’t even allow us to play the advantage. The card could have been delivered straight afterwards.
good point
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Radio WM saying that Hause incident should have been reviewed by VAR
It was - VAR said yellow.
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Wonder if we can get out of 3rd gear today.
I didn't even know we had more than 2 gears.
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I'd like to see Krov and Grosicki at some stage in this 2nd half.
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He’s right. Hause didn’t jump into Diangana like a nut job.
No just stamped down onto his actual shin - Livermore caused a glancing blow.
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Who are the other two? Periera and Gibbs, who have a blocked out?
Quite right. It's 3 reds on a different website. Unless the first site means the 2 yellows were upgraded to reds
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Hause’s was the more dangerous !
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Upshot is we don't have a single player who can tackle, not one! Our timing is shocking, we either back off or jump in, no surprise how many reds we rack up.
Most frustrating though was a) the ref failing to play the advantage after Hause tackle and b) Matt Phillips passing the resultant free kick to the keeper. Set pieces our only chance so he should be nowhere near them
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I'd like to see Krov and Grosicki at some stage in this 2nd half.
Yep just go for it.
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Desperate for a proper dcm so we dont have to play Livermore.
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We’ve managed one goal attempt according to the stats. Must have been that Phillips back pass free kick. Pathetic - Villa won’t get an easier clean sheet.
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The sooner someone snaps Grealish's leg the better, the cheat had been diving all night.
Or boots him in the air if Big Dave was on the pitch he would. For 606 Grealish never gets into the Simulation Game. Grealish apparently the most fouled player in the League no he is the most theatrical. If he didn't dive he might be able to score more goals.
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I still can't understand how it wasn't a sending off. When does it become a stamp then if that wasn't one? The ball wasn't even there to be won and he's gone in studs up down onto the shin. If that had been us I genuinely would have said fair enough, it is a pretty dangerous challenge like that.
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With a bit of luck we will never see sawyers Gibbs furlong Philips and Livermore ever again.
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They are stepping up again. We are just plodding and floundering.
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You can feel the usual capitulation coming.
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I think both should have been reds.
However Playing devils advocate, Livermore is shin height at one point with his studs, and whether he actually touches grealish or not and I don’t think he does, you just can’t do it. The he could easily have hit the player just below the knee, or nearly dragged his studs down his calf. I also can only speculate, but I think Livermore’s had some nastiness in it
Hause is poor and late and when stretching his foot has to come down somewhere and it’s unfortunate, but feet and ankles will be caught in football from time to time. I think that it was sloppy and clumsy has probably just saved him. Although it shouldn’t have.
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Desperate for a proper dcm so we dont have to play Livermore.
Sawyers - it's Sawyers we need to replace first. He's great in a side that has lots of comfortable possession but defensively he offers nothing. He's basically a luxury defensive midfielder.
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Our lack of fitness and discipline is seriously worrying. It's one thing not being good enough quality wise but to be so unprofessional is not acceptable
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Grealish is superb :(
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Has Grant even touched the ball?
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Sawyers - it's Sawyers we need to replace first. He's great in a side that has lots of comfortable possession but defensively he offers nothing. He's basically a luxury defensive midfielder.
I'd have DCM. Gallagher and Pereira ahead of them. 2 wingers either side of new DCM and CG. Sawyers would also be out yes.
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Our lack of fitness and discipline is seriously worrying. It's one thing not being good enough quality wise but to be so unprofessional is not acceptable
The fitness is shocking.
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Our lack of fitness and discipline is seriously worrying. It's one thing not being good enough quality wise but to be so unprofessional is not acceptable
If it wasn't for VAR being incredibly harsh then we'd have only lost Gibbs realistically.
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Would someone please explain to mr huddle and myself why the gentlemen in the off red shirts can stamp on, push hold pull back and challenge with studs showing from behind in front and from either side in order to gain possession of the football, Whilst those in the rather fetching navy blue and white bar code shirts are not allowed any physical contact with the aforementioned off red lot. And whilst they are at it, also why every time they misplace a pass the off red lot go crashing to the floor screaming like a girl and get the ball back in the form of a free kick. Have the rules changed so much overnight where worse tackles than the one red carded in retrospect were deemed perfectly ok, or is it just an experimental set of rules that only the var and the off red lot are aware of? COYB IT ONLY TAKES 10 OF YOU TO SOTV so get it done, you should be used to bent var and game refs by now so just ignore em fall over at every minor touch and scream louder than the cheating r-soles from seal park
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Sawyers needs to come off..playing like we are 3 up..
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If it wasn't for VAR being incredibly harsh then we'd have only lost Gibbs realistically.
Today wasn't harsh at all, never mind incredibly so.
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I feel like the new manager is almost reluctant to make a change on the basis of “you got yourselves in this mess you sort itâ€.
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I meant more in terms of attitude, hunger and desire..we don't seem to have any most games
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Sawyers needs to come off..playing like we are 3 up..
Every time I see him chewing gum I want to slap it out his mouth.
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Today wasn't harsh at all, never mind incredibly so.
The ref gave a yellow, it took a slow motion replay to detect any contact - that's not a clear and obvious error from the referee. Same for Periera's.
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Correct. Amazing how people who watch football can’t work out that the Livermore lunge wasn’t a red. Obviously a horror tackle, he went to do him and mostly missed - like he does at most things.
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Grealish is superb :(
Hes running the game.
Sam has got one hell of a job on with this lot.
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One way traffic.
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We've got a goal kick!
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Hes running the game.
Sam has got one hell of a job on with this lot.
As did the previous head coach
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Sawyers, Sawyer's Sawyer's.....
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Hes running the game.
Sam has got one hell of a job on with this lot.
I been saying since the season started this team was nailed on to get relegated. The only difference now is that players have a manager to play who wants them to hoof it everywhere so they aren’t going to be happy or enjoying their football. Promotion next season also looks futile with dinosaur tactics.
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He won't be here if we go down mate.
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If we are going to hoof, we need a runner up front.
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I meant more in terms of attitude, hunger and desire..we don't seem to have any most games
That's the reason we are where we are. No hunger or desire. Determination can make up for talent but we have none of either.
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I been saying since the season started this team was nailed on to get relegated. The only difference now is that players have a manager to play who wants them to hoof it everywhere so they aren’t going to be happy or enjoying their football. Promotion next season also looks futile with dinosaur tactics.
He won’t be here next season. He’ll only stay on if he keeps us up.... he won’t.
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We're not even putting up a fight.
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Stats say we have 33% of possession. No wonder we don't go forward.
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This defeat will hurt the Villa fans will be laughing at us and that arrogant moron Grealish will be diving and fist pumping all around
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We had a break on. Phillips doesn't look up.
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I wonder if VAR will rule in our favour at some point this season? Maybe when we are already relegated, ala the penalty in the 1st Megson prem season.
As for Livermore, fed up of him, a liability, a thug, not good enough to be worth putting up with his mindless aggression. Quicker he is gone the better.
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That's the reason we are where we are. No hunger or desire. Determination can make up for talent but we have none of either.
The reason we are where we are is due to the club’s lack of ambition.
We have championship players in the premier league.
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Get Sawyers off, laziest player ever, just awful.
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Absolutely awful by Phillips. Just put Gallagher in.
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That's the reason we are where we are. No hunger or desire. Determination can make up for talent but we have none of either.
Team looks mentally broken
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The reason we are where we are is due to the club’s lack of ambition.
We have championship players in the premier league.
And a Championship board.
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Liverpool match is going to be interesting.
Or something.
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What a horrendous breakaway attempt
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Phillips was slow then, both body and thought
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Sawyers gets Grant a yellow card. Just get him off, he is rubbish
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Liverpool match is going to be interesting.
Or something.
Got to hope they over indulge at Xmas.
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Only following the game through text but it sounds awful as bad as when we were a division lower and played these in a cup, embarrassing.
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Someone tell me what Sawyers and Grant offer to this team? both look slow, easy to knock off the ball,
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The last time I saw a game this one sided it was a decent premiership team in the cup against part time minnows.
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Got to hope they over indulge at Xmas.
On mogadon?
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Only following the game through text but it sounds awful as bad as when we were a division lower and played these in a cup, embarrassing.
We're down to ten men. Nothing particularly embarrassing about the performance.
Losing 5 again would be though.
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Only professional football team I've seen where fresh legs are needed after 30 mins
Ivanovich coming on
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The last time I saw a game this one sided it was a decent premiership team in the cup against part time minnows.
Palace at home last week?
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Team looks mentally broken
Thats what happens when you sack a manager that the players will run through brick walls for.
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Thats what happens when you sack a manager that the players will run through brick walls for.
They probably should of showed it a bit more then...
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Away from the game. SJ is becoming a good goalkeeper.
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Have we had a shot yet?
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Thats what happens when you sack a manager that the players will run through brick walls for.
Do you really think anything would have changed with Billic in charge off tonight?
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They probably should of showed it a bit more then...
Spot on!
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Sawyers pulls out of another 50/50...
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We're down to ten men. Nothing particularly embarrassing about the performance.
Losing 5 again would be though.
So it's not as bad as it sounds? reading the other comments it seems that way.
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Do you really think anything would have changed with Billic in charge off tonight?
Yes they would have tried harder.
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Thats what happens when you sack a manager that the players will run through brick walls for.
It's been going on most of the year for me
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Thats what happens when you sack a manager that the players will run through brick walls for.
This is clearly wrong. They downed tools for Bilić at the first sign of adversity week in week out until it was too late.
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Have we had a shot yet?
No, not except Phillips shooting from 40 yards out in the first half, when he should have put a cross in.
This is the most one sided 1-0 you will ever see. Looks like we’re playing to take the defeat.
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Have we had a shot yet?
Yes. A pass to the goalkeeper by Phillips.
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Had to laugh Mings took a booking to stop us “ breaking quickly†- 2 words that don’t go together for us !
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Do you really think anything would have changed with Billic in charge off tonight?
Not really no, it’s simply the players who are not good enough.
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Do you really think anything would have changed with Billic in charge off tonight?
We'd be about 4 nil down now instead of just the one if previous games are any indication.
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Had to laugh Mings took a booking to stop us “ breaking quickly†- 2 words that don’t go together for us !
Who was breaking quickly for us?!! ;D
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Breaking wind.
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Jesus wept Phillips.
-
The stop-start nature of this game has really sucked the life out of it.
Not that we were showing much life at any point anyway.
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0-2
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Matt Phillips was better when he could only play a third of the season due to injury. He was decent. Now he plays more his performances have dropped off and his fitness is awfffulllll
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Thought Vile were offside...
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This must be the most inept Albion performance for years. Big Sam has a huge job on his hands
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0-2. Time for some proper changes now surely?
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WOW !! VAR offside
-
Ball watching at this level..shocking..might be saved by VAR...
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A VAR DECISION IN OUR FAVOUR!!!!!!!
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Off to open the champagne. We’ve had a decision go our way!
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More charity, just like with Benteke. A striker slightly off form gets his goal.
Even Allardyce won't keep this side up. Woeful.
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WE GOT ONE! WE GOT ONE! GOD BLESS THE DODGY LINES.
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Flipping heck we get a decision! :o
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Off just wrong side of OShea.
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VAR we got one!!!!!!!
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Off to open the champagne. We’ve had a decision go our way!
Haha! 😆
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Doubt Villa will be too bothered, almost zero percent chance of us scoring a goal.
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Grealish dived again in the box ref plays advantage book the t**t I'm also behind you lot
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Matt Phillips was better when he could only play a third of the season due to injury. He was decent. Now he plays more his performances have dropped off and his fitness is awfffulllll
He's looked the most likely to create something this half. How many times has Diangana broke with the ball? Or Gallagher? Or Grant?
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Jesus, didn't see VAR ruling in our favour. Back in it.
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VAR gave us one. It feels like a WIN
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Off to open the champagne. We’ve had a decision go our way!
Not open to interpretation. Any VAR that is will go against us.
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The Villa keeper must be incredibly bored.
-
Fabulous save...get Phillip's off and Robinson on..
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Bring on the oldies. Ffs.
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Austin and Ivanovic coming on. Sam looking to preserve our 1-0 loss.
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Worth remembering we're down to 10 men and missing our best player. We haven't crumbled under Villa pressure like we did with Everton and Palace.
Plenty of positives for me lads.
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Haha haha haha Have that you slimey greasy cheats now if we book Grealish happy days
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Worth remembering we're down to 10 men and missing our best player. We haven't crumbled under Villa pressure like we did with Everton and Palace.
Plenty of positives for me lads.
We weren't in this with 11.
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He's looked the most likely to create something this half. How many times has Diangana broke with the ball? Or Gallagher? Or Grant?
He's generally rubbish and blowing out his backside. I go for the bigger picture than anomalies
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Austin and Ivanovic coming on. Sam looking to preserve our 1-0 loss.
Obviously need to inject some life and fitness into the team
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Surely Robinson helps us get up the pitch more than Robinson.
Robinson for Grant is the change!
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Great save by Johnstone.
Surprised Austin gets the nod ahead of Robinson.
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Could bring on Grosicki and Robinson who have pace but no let’s go for Austin and Ivanovich with a combined age of 73. Genius management.
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I could easily see Gallagher being recalled
-
Plenty of positives for me lads.
That is really really funny!
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Austin thinks he's Batman
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2 pacemasters brought on. Could do with a winger too
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Grant is a poor player....he has been under Bilic aswell
We needed a Deeney to play the CF/ST role.
That’s the type we will go for in Jan
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Grealish has got more desire than our team put together.
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Diangana off for Ivanocic. We really are trying to keep this to 1-0 - better get used to this lads.
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Not sure I understand these changes.
Hope Austin doesn’t wear that face mask when he goes shopping.
Love Sawyers but awful tonight. No idea how he stays on.
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Phillips off, who has put in a shift.
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Gallagher goo on son
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Austin on wearing a mask to keep his head attached to his neck when he hits top speed.
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Not sure I understand these changes.
Hope Austin doesn’t wear that face mask when he goes shopping.
Love Sawyers but awful tonight. No idea how he stays on.
Sawyers is awful most games
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2 pacemasters brought on. Could do with a winger too
Lol I read that as pace makers😂
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Lol I read that as pace makers😂
Both versions valid 😂
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Come on lads... 10 minutes to win.
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Gallagher will be better than Greasy well I hope ends up better the guy should have been booked for diving
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Austin on wearing a mask to keep his head attached to his neck when he hits top speed.
Ah, that made me chuckle 😂
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We weren't in this with 11.
That is really really funny!
We've stayed in the game.
Under Bilić a red card was terminal.
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Tbf we can sit here blaming different managers all day long but this squad is a result of terrible executive performance and the most short sighted board in the world of football.
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Lol I read that as pace makers😂
That's a race i'd sign up for.
-
SJ proving his detractors wrong. I was one in the past. Glad to eat my words.
-
Robinson for Grant
-
On the plus side this new keeper we signed this season is an improvement on the one we had in the championship
-
10 men or 11 men Villa have always had about 3 men spare all game
Allardyce has a lot of work to do with this side.
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Ajayi, O'Shea, Gallagher look the part.
The rest no.
-
SJ proving his detractors wrong. I was one in the past. Glad to eat my words.
He was brilliant at City and has had a good game tonight, except unfortunately, for the goal that separates the two sides.
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0-2 It's over.
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2-0. Keeper caught wrong footed.
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We've stayed in the game.
Under Bilić a red card was terminal.
Haven’t laid a glove on them and the result is the same
-
Game over, sadly.
-
Grealish again..
-
Grealish and Traore spent 20 seconds passing the ball between each other as we set up our defence.....they still found Cash in acres of space with the cross.
-
Result was never in doubt as soon as they took the lead.
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I'm behind you lot We've just made Robinson change
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For all the good Ajayi has been tonight that was a poor header to give them possession
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Say what you want about VAR and I'm certainly not disagreeing.
But we can't score goals to save our lives (literally).
And all those who were cussing Slaven's subs, well, he must still be here then obviously....
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Not sure what Allardyce does with a team like this
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I laughed when Villa signed Watkins for that fee. I suppose that's why I don't manage a football team.
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Another misplaced pass straight to Grealish. Own worst enemies. SJ helpless.
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Never had a prayer, 11 or 10 men. We're just not good enough.
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Ajayi decent defensively but awful on the ball tonight.
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2-0. Keeper caught wrong footed.
Great finish. Nothing the keeper could do. Those passed shots always look great when they come off.
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They have been camped in our half. Grealish now gets a penalty
-
Now Ajayi just pushes Grealish over in the box.
Sorry Jacko, what was you saying again?
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Penalty to Villa
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2-0. Keeper caught wrong footed.
Nothing he could do about that. Sawyers had to take Grealish out.
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For all the good Ajayi has been tonight that was a poor header to give them possession
I thought that.
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Ajayi you plonker.
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Goes down so easily again
-
Still think we have loads of positives to take from the game Jacko?
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Great finish. Nothing the keeper could do. Those passed shots always look great when they come off.
It was obvious from his body shape what he was going to do. The keeper was so wrong footed he didn't even dive - it wasn't even right in the corner or hit firmly. That was saveable.
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I cant remember a more one sided embarrassing derby performance in my lifetime. Anyone who thinks this is okay needs to wobble their head.
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That's a race i'd sign up for.
I was thinking more of the heart variety than front runners😂
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0-3
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Just giving them the ball back
I came back on because I’m a glutton for punishment.
It’s gone back off now.
Absolutely disgraceful from this team
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I thought that.
he did the same against City wasn't it? Just passed it to nobody at all - like 20 yards away from anyone.
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Ajayi has fallen apart last 2 minutes.
Christ.
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Since the subs we’ve lost two goals.
Nothing has changed apart from being even worse when we had 11 on the pitch for me.
New manager bounce already lost.
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I cant remember a more one sided embarrassing derby performance in my lifetime. Anyone who thinks this is okay needs to wobble their head.
Indeed, worst performance of the season by far.
We wouldn’t score if we played till next week.
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We KNOW Grealish will throw himself to the ground under any contact at all so why push him in the box? He'd have taken the same dive in the middle of the pitch.
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We've stayed in the game.
Under Bilić a red card was terminal.
Seems pretty terminal to me?
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Ffs even the cheaper Traore scores and now Greasy has a Penalty FFS I'm behind but I'm guessing game over. Greasy probably dived though. Just heard it he gets leaned on clever my backside blatant cheat yes not enough to go down
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Definitive new manager drop experienced.
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Since the subs we’ve lost two goals.
Nothing has changed apart from being even worse when we had 11 on the pitch for me.
New manager bounce already lost.
We never get a new manager bounce
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Ajayi has fallen apart last 2 minutes.
Christ.
You suggested that wouldn’t happen under this manager.
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Still think we have loads of positives to take from the game Jacko?
There’s isn’t a single positive. Not one.
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I’m not too worried about Allardyce - he’s a highly experienced professional.
My biggest worry is more fundamental - this is a terrible side well out of its depth. He’ll deserve the freedom of the borough if he manages to keep this lot up - in fact, 20 points looks a severe stretch right now.
Any manager can only work with the material available.
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If we think this is bad..wait until we play the Champions elect..
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Indeed, worst performance of the season by far.
We wouldn’t score if we played till next week.
Or have a shot
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Wish I could find a woman to go down as well as Grealish.
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Maybe Sam is the positive.
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Indeed, worst performance of the season by far.
We wouldn’t score if we played till next week.
Yup - even before the sending off it was absolutely awful. Why would we set up to play the same way against Villa as we would against City? It's clear Sam is going to just look for some clean sheets and defending for our lives.
Against Liverpool we'll have to mind. But if anyone though it was bad under Pulis, at least we weren't wasting talent like Diangana, Robinson, Periera and Krov.
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I'm still hoping we can get to 12pts
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I’m not too worried about Allardyce - he’s a highly experienced professional.
My biggest worry is more fundamental - this is a terrible side well out of its depth. He’ll deserve the freedom of the borough if he manages to keep this lot up - in fact, 20 points looks a severe stretch right now.
Any manager can only work with the material available.
I’m amazed he took the job on. It’s far too big for any manager unless they change the entire team in Jan. Which won’t happen here, I predict 2 loans.
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The real concern for me is that we haven't even troubled their goalkeeper, not once.....
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Wish I could find a woman to go down as well as Grealish.
Have you tried going around Witton?
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Big Sam will be knocking on 'Ken's' door in the morning asking for the cheque book to be opened.
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Still think we have loads of positives to take from the game Jacko?
We tried to open up once we got to last 10 mins only a goal behind. Ajayi makes 2 mistakes and that's all she wrote.
Yes far better than trudging off with 5 off the goal difference and never being in the game.
The other positive I won't mention as I'm on best behaviour. ;D
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Hopefully don't see Sawyer's again anytime soon.
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Have you tried going around Witton?
I prefer them to have teeth
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This could easily have been 5 or 6, with a goal chalked off for a toenail offside.
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We never get a new manager bounce
I suspect new manager bounce will be much harder for everybody with no crowd .
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I’m not too worried about Allardyce - he’s a highly experienced professional.
My biggest worry is more fundamental - this is a terrible side well out of its depth. He’ll deserve the freedom of the borough if he manages to keep this lot up - in fact, 20 points looks a severe stretch right now.
Any manager can only work with the material available.
my worry is for next season. We should in theory have been well prepared but we'll end up with a new manager (hopefully), and we'll lose the cream of the crop. Are we going to replace Periera and Diangana with similar quality next year?
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Yup - even before the sending off it was absolutely awful. Why would we set up to play the same way against Villa as we would against City? It's clear Sam is going to just look for some clean sheets and defending for our lives.
Against Liverpool we'll have to mind. But if anyone though it was bad under Pulis, at least we weren't wasting talent like Diangana, Robinson, Periera and Krov.
To be honest Diangana has been non-existent since the first few games. What the hell was happened to him??
This team is scarily bad. No quality, no discipline, no goal threat.
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Total embarrassment. Welcome Pulis Mark 2.
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This has been utter carp.
I see no difference between anything from Bilic to Alardyce that Jacko sees. Sorry Jacko, i respect your opinion but this has been appalling from most the players. I expect little impact from him yet though.
Captain fantastic led with his stupid challenge. Set us up to fail.
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Game off Fed up of this tripe truly terrible. Only Positive it well nothing that I can think of.
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Very concerned that Allardyce would use Austin.
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Dowling is a Championship manager, and the board just follow.
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Those who were desperate for Bilic to be sacked are clutching at straws tonight.
Horrendous performance.
Again the reason being this squad are simply not good enough.
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I think we might lose.
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FT 0-3
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I think we might lose.
Hindsight so lovely.
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We tried to open up once we got to last 10 mins only a goal behind. Ajayi makes 2 mistakes and that's all she wrote.
Yes far better than trudging off with 5 off the goal difference and never being in the game.
The other positive I won't mention as I'm on best behaviour. ;D
We're going with 3 goals instead - and thanks to VAR and Villa missing a load of chances (and some good saves).
It's been no better than our other matches where we got someone sent off. In fact I'd say it was worse because in those other games we at least looked in it until the sending off. We weren't even close to this game when the red happened.
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3-0 down, could easily be four or five. No attacking pattern of play at any point in the match. Set up to defend against Villa like we did against Man City. Early goal against ruined our only game plan of playing for a nil nil. Woeful performance and dinosaur tactics. Hasn’t been a contest. Atrocious use of subs.
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One shot all game by the way. ONE. Vs their 17. Pathetic.
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We tried to open up once we got to last 10 mins only a goal behind. Ajayi makes 2 mistakes and that's all she wrote.
Yes far better than trudging off with 5 off the goal difference and never being in the game.
The other positive I won't mention as I'm on best behaviour. ;D
This performance is so much worse than palace, if you dont think so good luck to you.
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Yup - even before the sending off it was absolutely awful. Why would we set up to play the same way against Villa as we would against City? It's clear Sam is going to just look for some clean sheets and defending for our lives.
Against Liverpool we'll have to mind. But if anyone though it was bad under Pulis, at least we weren't wasting talent like Diangana, Robinson, Periera and Krov.
Pereira is suspended so how are we wasting talent!?
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10 men. Write it off lads. Painful as that might be against these.
-
What a shambles. Worst derby performance I’ve seen
-
The one bright note is you lads are not at the ground suffering even more and Lai can kiss goodbye to his money.
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Sawyers still couldn't catch Grealish to offer a handshake at the final whistle...that was dire..
-
Lost 3-0, could easily be four or five. No attacking pattern of play at any point in the match. Set up to defend against Villa like we did against Man City. Early goal against ruined our only game plan of playing for a nil nil. Woeful performance and dinosaur tactics. Hasn’t been a contest. Atrocious use of subs.
Team: 1/10 (for turning up)
Alladyce: 0/10
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Only positive from that is at least BS has seen us at our worst :P
He’ll be handing in his notice tomorrow
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Still can’t help but think VAR has done us over if Livermore goes Hause has got to go
-
Ultimately Livermore cost us any chance of getting back into that one.
We are an awful side with 11 on the pitch, but when your captain does that, what hope do you have.
-
Big Sam’s relegation records going with this team, even before the brainless decision by Livermore it looked like a training match for Villa.
-
Lost 3-0, could easily be four or five. No attacking pattern of play at any point in the match. Set up to defend against Villa like we did against Man City. Early goal against ruined our only game plan of playing for a nil nil. Woeful performance and dinosaur tactics. Hasn’t been a contest. Atrocious use of subs.
Team: 1/10 (for turning up)
Alladyce: 0/10
Nothing to do with tactics mate, we’ve not got the players. Poor touches, slow, embarrassing at this level.
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Sawyers still couldn't catch Grealish to offer a handshake at the final whistle...that was dire..
Sawyers shouldn't be anywhere near the first 11 by the way. His off the ball work in terms of tracking runners, positioning and tackling is very very poor. He got away with it last season because we dominated the ball in most games.
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****. We are a mid table championship side on these showings. Been concerned that we were going to take a few derby day batterings this season and 3-0 in the first one makes me think i've got that right.
Livermore should never play for us again. Time after time this thug costs us, giving little upside in return.
As for the Allardyce honeymoon period, this was a rained out pontins rather than a Carribean.
****.
-
Somebody care to explain the Ivanovich and Austin subs , surelyy Robinson and Grosicki should have been first up !?
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Only positive from that is at least BS has seen us at our worst :P
He’ll be handing in his notice tomorrow
I hope so
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Positives - Livermore can't play the next 3
-
Sawyers couldn't catch Grealish to offer a handshake at the final whistle..the starting 11 were poor, the subs were poor and so is the rest of the squad..will take a miracle to keep this lot up..
-
That was simply abysmal. We’ve had some poor sides of the years but this one is on the 85/86 level.
-
If Sam keeps this lot up he'll have earned that bonus and some more
-
Awful all round. Nobody comes out of that with any credit.
Manager got it all wrong. I know he didn't have long but he obviously set us up to just go out and defend like we did against City. As soon as we went a goal down that's that plan blown out of the water and we didn't offer any kind of threat at all.
At least in the other games where went down to 10 men we were actually in the games - in this one we weren't even close.
Worst performance of the season for me. 0-3 flattered us.
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Sawyers, shocking if he played for us again it would be to soon
Grant, looks like he needs someone up top with him to give him a chance.
Unless we someone manage to get three of four additions in we are doomed. The funny thing is we arent even the worse team in the prem.
Merry Christmas Everyone
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Poor.
Really poor.
Extremely poor.
We need about 3/4 signings to even make us competitive
Worst derby performance I’ve ever seen, players should be ashamed of themselves.
-
Big Sam’s relegation records going with this team, even before the brainless decision by Livermore it looked like a training match for Villa.
Sam was relegated with Notts County.
-
A difficult game made even more difficult by conceding so early then Livermore's lack of composure/stupidity being the bigger factor in the game.
Livermore has illustrated why we need an experienced DM in January.
-
Positives - Livermore can't play the next 3
A silver lining ;D
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One game closer to getting out of this joke of a league. Unless we get new owners there's no point even flirting with it, its just about money,. Smith is no better than Bilic or Moore, even, just has hundreds of million to spend. Would rather be in League 1, this is not football that I grew up with.
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I'm not overly down about it. Livermore has cost us the game. Regarding the approach he almost had to stick with them given the result at City and the lack of time with the squad.
He's seen the task at hand now. We defended relatively well until he went to a 3 in hope of snatching an equaliser, even then Ajayi let us down badly after a decent 80 minutes.
Hause should have been sent off for them and we're missing our best player.
Just the small matter of Anfield next.
Merry Christmas lads. 🎅
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Livermore should be stripped of the captaincy for that display of A grade moronity.
Shouldn’t have opened up like we did at the end, wrong decision from Allardyce. Possibly should’ve just replaced Phillips and Diangana with Robison and Grosicki. 1-0 would’ve been fine.
-
That was as bad as anything under Bilic, but I guess it was a lot to ask Sam to turn it around in 2 days.
He’ll know the size of the task at hand now, that’s for sure.
-
Glad I don't feel the pain like I use to even losing 3 in the way we did to the team I despise hasn't wounded me probably because I think this season is a write-off.
-
Our set up cost us the game - playing for a 0-0 against Villa.
-
That was simply abysmal. We’ve had some poor sides of the years but this one is on the 85/86 level.
I think you are right.
-
Somebody care to explain the Ivanovich and Austin subs , surelyy Robinson and Grosicki should have been first up !?
I think he got a call from Slaven.....
They were better than us in every department tonight. Looked more organised and seemed to be enjoying themselves. We just look shot , devoid of ideas and possibly with a bit of a hangover from the Slaven sacking. For me what is missing is a no nonsense midfield enforcer, we were completely overrun all night long.
Saam has got his work cut out here.
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Those subs were head scratchers that looked bad at the time and even worse at the final whistle.
With Anfield next, Allardyce could be looking at a horrible aggregate score for his first few games.
Still, we sae VAR rule in our favour for the first time all season - maybe a dangerous Karlan Grant performance isn't quite the impossibility it currently looks like.
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Livermore is an easy scapegoat but we were never in the game before the sending off.
-
I think he got a call from Slaven.....
They were better than us in every department tonight. Looked more organised and seemed to be enjoying themselves. We just look shot , devoid of ideas and possibly with a bit of a hangover from the Slaven sacking. For me what is missing is a no nonsense midfield enforcer, we were completely overrun all night long.
Saam has got his work cut out here.
We have been missing on of those for 4 years. Dowling's just too **** to work it out.
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If anyone thinks thats better than Slav would have got I disagree completely.
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Livermore is an easy scapegoat but we were never in the game before the sending off.
He’s still useless
-
I've hated villa all my life and I can't even feel angry about what I've seen tonight, I just accept that we've become an incompetent football club with no soul of identity.
We've gone back to square one employing another past by date manager just so the owner can recoup his dollars.
For all the diving Grealish does he put our players to shame with his desire and passion to win.
Will Sam keep us up, no chance.
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Livermore is an easy scapegoat but we were never in the game before the sending off.
Scapegoat? Hardly, it was utter stupidity, he deserves all the stick he gets and more.
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Livermore is an easy scapegoat but we were never in the game before the sending off.
No. Awful goal conceded. Gibbs awful defending as usual, shows Traore onto his strong foot and makes no attempt to block the cross. Furlong awful marking and Johnstone maybe should be doing better as well.
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If anyone thinks thats better than Slav would have got I disagree completely.
Did well against Palace last time out at home with Slav
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He must be wondering whether coming back to work with this squad was wise. If he can fashion a competitive team out of this group he will deserve every credit imaginable.
This is the worst Albion team I’ve ever seen in the top flight in the past 50 years, including 85-6 and 02-03 - weak back to front, and in between. They leak goals, get overpowered in midfield and offer no threat up front. It wouldn’t even be a promotion-chasing Championship team.
No complaints about the result tonight - the gap between the two teams was enormous. Aston Villa didn’t need to be much good - they’re only just establishing themselves back in this league after all. But we don’t belong there I’m afraid.
A manager can only do so much - the fundamental thing is whether any coach has players who are good enough. Allardyce just doesn’t have the material to work with.
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I think the players showed what they thought of the boards decision tonight. That has to be the worst Albion performance against villa I have ever seen
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Livermore is an easy scapegoat but we were never in the game before the sending off.
Yes, because we had Livermore playing in our midfield.
-
Did well against Palace last time out with Slav
The issue is the players not who’s head coach
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Livermore is an easy scapegoat but we were never in the game before the sending off.
Awful all round. Nobody comes out of that with any credit.
Manager got it all wrong. I know he didn't have long but he obviously set us up to just go out and defend like we did against City. As soon as we went a goal down that's that plan blown out of the water and we didn't offer any kind of threat at all.
At least in the other games where went down to 10 men we were actually in the games - in this one we weren't even close.
Worst performance of the season for me. 0-3 flattered us.
Not sure you two know what being 'in the game' means.
Palace was game over at 1-3 (59 minutes), Everton 4-2 (62 minutes). Villa didn't score their 2nd until the 84th minute. That is being in the game. Not matching them or creating chances, being within a goal of getting something.
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Yes, because we had Livermore playing in our midfield.
he played against City didn't he? What happened to the "good performance in one game means they start the next"? In fact, if you look at when he was dropped which of those games do you think we looked good in?
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Truly terrible gutless, spineless, clueless the worst dross I have seen. My evening was cheered up when I saw a big fox outside good luck Sam your going to need it
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If anyone thinks thats better than Slav would have got I disagree completely.
We've got the message change the record
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If anyone thinks thats better than Slav would have got I disagree completely.
He’s had three days mate. Today was awful, but I honestly think there’s an element of assessment in that game. The Man City game papered over some cracks and had we got a sneaky draw today it would have done the same.
I think Sam has learnt a lot from today.
I don’t think he’ll keep us up but he’ll but much closer than Bilic would have been.
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Poor.
Really poor.
Extremely poor.
We need about 3/4 signings to even make us competitive
Worst derby performance I’ve ever seen, players should be ashamed of themselves.
I’d suggest we are 8 players short of a decent team
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Started terrible. Terrible decisions, terrible subs. Just terrible.
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He’s had three days mate. Today was awful, but I honestly think there’s an element of assessment in that game. The Man City game papered over some cracks and had we got a sneaky draw today it would have done the same.
I think Sam has learnt a lot from today.
I don’t think he’ll keep us up but he’ll but much closer than Bilic would have been.
I agree he may well get us “closer,†but how much closer? It’s almost impossible to get results in this league without quality players, no matter how well coached you are.
This could get seriously embarrassing.
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Imagine the 2,000 unlucky souls that had to pay £25 to watch that .
Johnstone only player that gets any credit at all tonight
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We have the worst squad of players in the league, and if this forum is anything to go by we have some of the worst "supporters" in the league. I'm outta here.
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Livermore is an easy scapegoat but we were never in the game before the sending off.
He often is, however, a captain can't do that. You want the captain to be a calming influence not act on his frustration and get sent off.
I'd strip him of the captaincy once he's available again,. He really let us down tonight. We definitely need a proper Yacob style defensive midfielder in January.
The whole team was poor though....apart from Johnstone.
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The BT ref spokesman has changed his tune now and is saying both incidents were red cards and that he’d have wanted to check the screen following the villa one too.
Saying that, he also said that var's job ‘isn’t to come to the right decision’
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The more they show the foul on Grady the more its definitely a red..both pundits and Walton agreeing too...Atkinson at fault..
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Not sure you two know what being 'in the game' means.
Palace was game over at 1-3 (59 minutes), Everton 4-2 (62 minutes). Villa didn't score their 2nd until the 84th minute. That is being in the game. Not matching them or creating chances, being within a goal of getting something.
Not sure you know what it means either, I was talking about us being in the game when we went down to 10 men.
Palace - we were 1-1 and looking the better side. We lose by 3 goals, at least we scored.
Everton - we were 2-1 down after going ahead. We lose by 3 goals, at least we scored 2.
Today - we were 1-0 down, hadn't even put together a string of passes and looked out of it. We lose by 3 goals, only shot on goal was a 40 yard free kick.
We weren't in the game at 1-0 down regardless of what you might think.
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We have the worst squad of players in the league, and if this forum is anything to go by we have some of the worst "supporters" in the league. I'm outta here.
Lots of people seriously disappointed about losing to Villa and determined to dislike the new manager is a heady cocktail this evening.
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The BT ref spokesman has changed his tune now and is saying both incidents were red cards and that he’d have wanted to check the screen following the villa one too.
Saying that, he also said that var's job ‘isn’t to come to the right decision’
Yep. Time and time again we don’t get to compete on a level playing field.
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Positives - Livermore can't play the next 3
3?? it will be 1, not vioent conduct. He'll have Xmas off though and miss the Liverpool game
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Lots of people seriously disappointed about losing to Villa and determined to dislike the new manager is a heady cocktail this evening.
Determined to dislike the manager, or just calling what they see.
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3?? it will be 1, not vioent conduct. He'll have Xmas off though and miss the Liverpool game
Straight red is automatically 3 no?
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What stands out to me most is our lack of fitness in comparison to our opponents and our lack of confidence going forward. This has been on-going for quite some time now, even before we were promoted.
Our build-up play and countering is so slow. It’s why we struggle to hurt teams. Part of that is down to fitness and the other to our elongated lack of confidence.
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Lots of people seriously disappointed about losing to Villa and determined to dislike the new manager is a heady cocktail this evening.
Maybe if the new manager hadn't set us up to scrape a 0-0 at home against Villa it would have been different?
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Determined to dislike the manager, or just calling what they see.
He's had 72 hours with them Fraz.
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Not sure you know what it means either, I was talking about us being in the game when we went down to 10 men.
Palace - we were 1-1 and looking the better side. We lose by 3 goals, at least we scored.
Everton - we were 2-1 down after going ahead. We lose by 3 goals, at least we scored 2.
Today - we were 1-0 down, hadn't even put together a string of passes and looked out of it. We lose by 3 goals, only shot on goal was a 40 yard free kick.
We weren't in the game at 1-0 down regardless of what you might think.
I doubt we’d have troubled them with 15 players on the pitch. Totally outclassed.
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The BT ref spokesman has changed his tune now and is saying both incidents were red cards and that he’d have wanted to check the screen following the villa one too.
Saying that, he also said that var's job ‘isn’t to come to the right decision’
I'm getting more and more confused about the criteria for VAR. Bottom line is Peter Walton says he would have given red cards for both incidents.
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We need to win twelve games , Big Sam will identify the games we can win and that will be what keeps us up , but he’ll have to do some wheeling and dealing in the window because as we all know this lot are nowhere good enough
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Straight red is automatically 3 no?
I thought only if it was violent?
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Straight red is automatically 3 no?
Yup - it'll be a 3 match ban. Same as Periera.
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Maybe if the new manager hadn't set us up to scrape a 0-0 at home against Villa it would have been different?
How do those players feel about being dropped after getting a point at Man City? He's not had time to set them up to do anything.
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The only positive is it was only 0-3 against a team that at the very best are also-rans. Who knows how many Liverpool may score?
This was Aston Villa remember, not one of the big boys.
And as the weight of defeats becomes heavier it normally gets worse for the weak teams at the bottom. If we’re this bad now, what might we be like after a few more thrashings by rather better teams than Aston Villa?
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I didn't see too many positives from that at all. I also don't point the blame at Allardyce.
Livermore should have not made that challenge, simple as. Hause should've been off. Defending was dire for the first goal.
We had absolutely nothing about us. I'm really not enjoying football at the moment. VAR is killing it for me. I don't mind Livermore going but then Hause stays on. Kills the game.
Can't wait to see the midfield he goes for with no Livermore!
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3?? it will be 1, not vioent conduct. He'll have Xmas off though and miss the Liverpool game
I think it will be 3 games for a dangerous tackle. Certainly wasn’t dissent, a professional foul or two yellows which are the offences that would see a less than 3 match ban.
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We have the worst squad of players in the league, and if this forum is anything to go by we have some of the worst "supporters" in the league. I'm outta here.
Pure frustration we've been here before.
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I said when they sacked Slaven, have they got a magician lined up, let's hope big Sam's got a magic wand.
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Sam calling out Livermore in his interview post match quite rightly.
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So much for Allardyce and his supposed inspiration. Nothing but long balls.
At least the players tried for Slav but didn’t see them playing for Allardyce and really we would struggle in League 1 never mind the Championship based on this dreadful performance.
Allardyce out.
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I think it will be 3 games for a dangerous tackle. Certainly wasn’t dissent, a professional foul or two yellows which are the offences that would see a less than 3 match ban.
Fair enough, well Jakes got Xmas and New Year off then ;D
"For example, a sending off due to a second yellow card will result in a one-match ban, as will a red card received for a professional foul.
Dissent leading to a red card will generally earn a two-match ban, while violent conduct can be punished with a suspension for three games."
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He's had 72 hours with them Fraz.
Yep, definitely get that. It was a performance that just played to the Allardyce stereotype I thought. And I didn’t get the subs at all. It’s got to get better either way and the only way we will get out of this is not through talent - as we don’t have enough, it’ll be through organisation which is why we have him.
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Sam calling out Livermore in his interview post match quite rightly.
Did he? good.
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As soon as I saw Livermore and Phillips starting it was only going one way. Stupid reckless challenge by Livermore that someone of his expertise should know better. Grant looks to be an awful piece of business so far his hold up play and first touch are horrendous. Can't get my mind over the subs either. I don't understand how Ivanovic came on before Robinson or Grosicki when we are chasing the game. May aswell of kept Billic in charge for that particular game. We may of saw more passion and fight.
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I appreciate that emotions are running high but can we stop with the petty jibes at other posters opinions.
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So much for Allardyce and his supposed inspiration. Nothing but long balls.
At least the players tried for Slav but didn’t see them playing for Allardyce and really we would struggle in League 1 never mind the Championship based on this dreadful performance.
Allardyce out.
Where's this from? We stayed organised if he hadn't changed shape it would probably have finished one nil. In the other games we've been done for 5. Everton got their 5th in the 66th minute. Palace were 3 ahead at 68 minutes.
There was no lack of effort tonight.
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Really poor... one of the worst derby performances from us that I can remember.
No surprise that Allardyce started with the team that drew at city. Unfortunately this team is awful, poor quality, no real pace either. Terrible decision by Livermore to lunge like he did, however they should have been down to 10 as well.
Not sure where our goals are going to come from.
Need 3 maybe 4 quality signings.
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What stands out to me most is our lack of fitness in comparison to our opponents and our lack of confidence going forward. This has been on-going for quite some time now, even before we were promoted.
Our build-up play and countering is so slow. It’s why we struggle to hurt teams. Part of that is down to fitness and the other to our elongated lack of confidence.
Nothing to do with the squad not being good enough then?
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Where's this from? We stayed organised if he hadn't changed shape it would probably have finished one nil. In the other games we've been done for 5. Everton got their 5th in the 66th minute. Palace were 3 ahead at 68 minutes.
There was no lack of effort tonight.
I don’t believe there’s been a lack of effort all season. What I do question is the lack of ability.
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TBF it was just a mess from the start. We were awful with XI and the game died when Livermore lost the plot and the corpse was stiffed with VAR viagara when Hause was only given a yellow.
1st goal was awful to concede, Gibbs gave everyone the freedom of the park all gane. Furlong switched off completely and had a torrid first half and SJ got lost like the old SJ for 5 seconds but thats enough.
Ajayi lost the plot after being at fault for the 2nd goal.
In fact it was a very Bilic-esque performance from start to finish. Needs a few weeks to move away from that just sucks that first game was Villa, i'd rather it have been Liverpool as thats a throwaway anyway.
Lets see what we are like in 2-3 weeks time.
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Nothing to do with the squad not being good enough then?
Sadly you’re right Aztec. If only it were down to something fixable like fitness or confidence.
Silk purses and sows ears come to mind.
Not. Good. Enough. (Not even close).
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Martin McKeown has been pretty fair in his assessment and says both were red cards.
I am sure that the VAR guy has history against us.
On the game, well we were outclassed and outplayed by a more determined team. We have a distinct lack of class on the pitch . Sam Johnston and Gallagher only ones who can hold their heads up tonight. Rest were poor or very poor.
Unless BSA can get 5/6 loan players with good premier league experience we are heading back to the championship.
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How do those players feel about being dropped after getting a point at Man City? He's not had time to set them up to do anything.
And yet you give him credit for setting us up to stay in the game at 1-0. Can't have it both ways.
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Can't believe this is how our players treat a derby game, whether they only want to play for Bilic or not, they get payed by the club and should play for the fans.
This was a derby game...
Only decent players tonight (marginally)
Gallagher
O'Shea
Phillips (What???)
Johnstone
The others can go and boil there head.
Disgusting attitude for the game if they cannot get themselves up for this massive game.
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Martin McKeown has been pretty fair in his assessment and says both were red cards.
I am sure that the VAR guy has history against us.
On the game, well we were outclassed and outplayed by a more determined team. We have a distinct lack of class on the pitch . Sam Johnston and Gallagher only ones who can hold their heads up tonight. Rest were poor or very poor.
Unless BSA can get 5/6 loan players with good premier league experience we are heading back to the championship.
The Irsishman? Has he had nationality-realignment surgery?
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Nothing to do with the squad not being good enough then?
We’re definitely weak in areas Aztech. But without fitness and confidence to attack our opposition, even a more balanced squad is going to struggle to win games.
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The players are the most half-arsed players i've ever seen up here and it's been that way for a long time since it started falling apart at the start of the year.
Absolutely shocking. Wonder if Sam will be given reign to sell who he can. You'd hope so.
The 2002-03 squad would put these lot to shame in terms of attitude.
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Dreadful performance and brainless from Livermore .
This side cannot put two performances together , over to.Sam now.
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We’re definitely weak in areas Aztech. But without fitness and confidence to attack our opposition, even a more balanced squad is going to struggle to win games.
Clearly fitness and confidence help, however I maintain other than Gallagher I don’t see any other player in tonight’s starting line up being a regular starter for another premier league team other than those fighting relegation.
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The players are the most half-arsed players i've ever seen up here and it's been that way for a long time since it started falling apart at the start of the year.
Absolutely shocking. Wonder if Sam will be given reign to sell who he can. You'd hope so.
I agree. Diangana being the prime example, the guy looks lost. Sawyers weekly stroll in the park is also becoming particularly grating.
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I agree. Diangana being the prime example, the guy looks lost. Sawyers put weekly stroll in the park is also becoming particularly grating.
What worried me most was Bilic determination to put his dysfunctional family back together again 6 weeks before a ball was kicked. It wasn't working in the EFL so why persist? Bilic squad is as unbalanced as a Pulis squad. Ones too heavy, this ones too weak. No balance at all. You need ball players and you need scrappers. We got lots of tippy tappers but no one with any ********.
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I know people don't want to hear it, but this was a good Villa side. We have very few players who were prepared or able to carry the ball forward like Grealish, El Gazi, Traore McGinn. We dropped so deep that we were always hopelessly outnumbered when we attacked. Neither Furlong or Gibbs got forward like Matty Cash or the other back did. Pereira will give us a bit more quality inside the opposition half, and I hope Krov is brought into the picture, but you need enough players to put the opposition under pressure.
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And yet you give him credit for setting us up to stay in the game at 1-0. Can't have it both ways.
I can have it both ways Tim. The poster I was quoting (not you by the way Tim) was suggesting we set up too negatively. I suggested he's not had time to implement anything else. We were well drilled 4-5-1 aside from Furlong ball watching and Johnstone misreading the flight of the football.
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The players are the most half-arsed players i've ever seen up here and it's been that way for a long time since it started falling apart at the start of the year.
Absolutely shocking. Wonder if Sam will be given reign to sell who he can. You'd hope so.
Who’d buy? I can’t see many (or any) of these improving any PL team, and they won’t be keen to drop down until they’re relegated. His room for manoeuvre is likely to be very limited, and there isn’t a single area of the team that could be described as good enough.
It’s a Herculean task he’s taken on. Albion supporters dream like all fans but we’re not fools, and we know what we’re watching. No amount of deckchair moving will help unless there’s an unlikely amount of team strengthening. I don’t expect it to be honest.
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Sam was never going to change from the Man City XI and probably rightly so. Sadly tonight they looked knackered from the off. Our fitness is appalling. If we cant match teams in work-rate we have zero chance.
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Where's this from? We stayed organised if he hadn't changed shape it would probably have finished one nil. In the other games we've been done for 5. Everton got their 5th in the 66th minute. Palace were 3 ahead at 68 minutes.
There was no lack of effort tonight.
Why are you using some arbitrary cut off time? A match lasts 90 minutes. We lost all 3 games by 3 goals - at least in the other we scored and we looked a lot better before the red cards.
We were poor with 11 men. and we were really poor with 10 men.
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Who’d buy? I can’t see many (or any) of these improving any PL team, and they won’t be keen to drop down until they’re relegated. His room for manoeuvre is likely to be very limited, and there isn’t a single area of the team that could be described as good enough.
It’s a Herculean task he’s taken on. Albion supporters dream like all fans but we’re not fools, and we know what we’re watching. No amount of deckchair moving will help unless there’s an unlikely amount of team strengthening. I don’t expect it to be honest.
Fair point. The fantastic transfer department have put many on deals no one will match. We need a midfield craphouse. Somoene in the Champo would buy Sawyers for 4m i'm sure of it. He is proven there. Austin leaves in Jan hopefully, thats the rumour, thats 70k pw saved. The board are going to have to box clever and thats what worries me.
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Match stats we had 1 shot vila had 19 irrespective of how many they put in the net that spells total domination and we can count ourselves lucky to get away with 0-3.
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If Bilic was in charge of that performance we'd be saying that he'd lost the dressing room.
That's worrying.
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I know people don't want to hear it, but this was a good Villa side. We have very few players who were prepared or able to carry the ball forward like Grealish, El Gazi, Traore McGinn. We dropped so deep that we were always hopelessly outnumbered when we attacked. Neither Furlong or Gibbs got forward like Matty Cash or the other back did. Pereira will give us a bit more quality inside the opposition half, and I hope Krov is brought into the picture, but you need enough players to put the opposition under pressure.
It was a good Villa side tonight Alex1, no question. Mind you, they must have spent £250million since we last met 18 months ago 👍🏻
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Yep we are about 250m behind them.
Be very interesting to see what our profit and losses for this season and the last show when the dust has settled.
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Tonight was bad. Really bad. Big Sam has had two training sessions?
Livermore's idiocy cost us that game.
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Match stats we had 1 shot vila had 19 irrespective of how many they put in the net that spells total domination and we can count ourselves lucky to get away with 0-3.
Correct. Dreadful evening all round and delusional to pretend otherwise. 3-0 flattered us.
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As said before.... worst we have been since 85/86.
These players may not be good enough, but they tried for Bilic.
I will be amazed to get another point.
Dowling, Xu Ke, Lai, and I strongly feel, Allardyce. Not a bloody clue between them. We are properly in the mire.
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Why are you using some arbitrary cut off time? A match lasts 90 minutes. We lost all 3 games by 3 goals - at least in the other we scored and we looked a lot better before the red cards.
We were poor with 11 men. and we were really poor with 10 men.
We lost 5-1 to Palace BA.
Both performances AFTER the red cards far worse than tonight.
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If Bilic was in charge of that performance we'd be saying that he'd lost the dressing room.
That's worrying.
I take it that's the royal we?
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That was as bad as anything under Bilic, but I guess it was a lot to ask Sam to turn it around in 2 days.
He’ll know the size of the task at hand now, that’s for sure.
Not blaming Sam at all. This did however clearly illustrate that the team simply isn’t good enough which, in itself, asks if sacking the last manager was logical.
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We lost 5-1 to Palace BA.
Both performances AFTER the red cards far worse than tonight.
Both performances BEFORE the red cards were miles better though. And we play more often with 11 than 10 (just).
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Villa net spend over the last 2 seasons around £210m
WBA net spend over the last 2 seasons around 25m not including incoming due fees for Hegazi and Nathan Ferguson which are going to be around 10m i'd imagine real net spend is 15m quid. WOW.
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Both performances BEFORE the red cards were miles better though. And we play more often with 11 than 10 (just).
I have never mentioned before the red cards in the context of this discussion mate.
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Not blaming Sam at all. This did however clearly illustrate that the team simply isn’t good enough which, in itself, asks if sacking the last manager was logical.
I see what you are saying but Bilic and the club knew Bilic was toast, he was sleepwalking us to relegation and was gone at the end of the season regardless. The board have spent a few million to give us a chance whether it works or not.
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We lost 5-1 to Palace BA.
Both performances AFTER the red cards far worse than tonight.
Worse in what respect the scoreline can't argue with that but against Palace we had 9 shots to their 18 that sounds to me that at least at some stage in the game we had a shout can't say that tonight.
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I take it that's the royal we?
Everyone except you apparently. If you think that was a side putting their all on the line for the club and busting a gut then I don't know what else to say. From the start they looked disinterested, lazy, we didn't close down, we didn't keep the ball, we didn't tackle, we had no runners, there was nothing. Like I said, if Bilic was in charge we'd be saying he's lost the dressing room - it was telling that after the City game the remarks were how much the team looked like they were playing for him. Even against Palace we had 50% possession, against Villa we had 35%. We were miles off competing.
Put it this way, the only plus point you've managed to come up with is that we conceded more goals in some other matches, and that's largely down to Villa's finishing and Sam making some saves. We had 1 shot and that was a 40 yard free kick.
I'm surprised you wanted Pulis gone seeing as you seem to think that was somehow a promising performance.
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Yep we are about 250m behind them.
Be very interesting to see what our profit and losses for this season and the last show when the dust has settled.
Edens and Sawiris have pumped a hell of a lot of money into the Vile since they forced the reigns off that clown Dr Xu. And it shows too mate.
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I think Sam has looked at the Man City game and thought I'll play the same tactics and same line-up and maybe we can nick a point. Trouble is gameplan went out the window after 4 minutes. Villa completly dominated midfield because we played so deep. They had
5 or 6 options to pass to because they had so much space. Whereas we couldn't settle on the ball for more than 10 seconds, because we got outnumbered. Last 10 minutes SA changed it by pushing extra man forward, and Villa picked us off twice on the counter.
As Hoddle hinted in the commentary, it was a case of either keeping the same tactics and the score staying 0-1, or just chucking strikers on and leaving us open at the back.
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I have never mentioned before the red cards in the context of this discussion mate.
I did - when I said we were in the game when the red cards happened.
That's why I think tonight was a much worse performance than both the other red card games. At least in those we were competing. We weren't in this game at ANY point, neither before, or after the red card.
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As said before.... worst we have been since 85/86.
These players may not be good enough, but they tried for Bilic.
I will be amazed to get another point.
Dowling, Xu Ke, Lai, and I strongly feel, Allardyce. Not a bloody clue between them. We are properly in the mire.
I don't think the team is as bad as that, but it feels like we're further away from the level that we need to compete at.
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I see what you are saying but Bilic and the club knew Bilic was toast, he was sleepwalking us to relegation and was gone at the end of the season regardless. The board have spent a few million to give us a chance whether it works or not.
One game in under Alladyce so far, and we are sprinting towards relegation. This team is not and has never been good enough to stay up. Now they have lost their manager and are being asked to play a brand of football that they is against their instincts. We've hugely damaged our prospects of promotion next season. Next job Bilic gets and if I am Pereira I am straight on the phone to my agent.
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Villa net spend over the last 2 seasons around £210m
WBA net spend over the last 2 seasons around 25m not including incoming due fees for Hegazi and Nathan Ferguson which are going to be around 10m i'd imagine real net spend is 15m quid. WOW.
And that says it all. I reckon even I’d have a chance of putting a reasonable team together for £210m, but a football God would struggle with just 7% of that money.
But Albion have always been the same, all through my lifetime. If they could do it on the cheap, they would. We’d spend ages looking at players before someone else signed them (the likes of Paul Mariner), we wouldn’t gamble £5k on Cyrille Regis, we repeatedly sold our best players and we built a Halfords Lane stand that was out of date and modest even by the standards of 1980. And we had a very good team and money coming in at that time, but never let ambition stand in the way of saving a few quid.
So in some ways it’s how we’ve always been. It’s amazing we’ve managed to spend as much time as we have in the top flight since my first game in Feb 1973.
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The performance was utter garbage, 1 shot in 90 mins. That performance is indefensible, hugely embarrassing.
To think people wanted Bilic gone for what exactly?
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We lost 5-1 to Palace BA.
Both performances AFTER the red cards far worse than tonight.
Are you really still trying to justify tonight?
We started the game with zero intention, we were very poor, we were very slow against a side who only played on Thursday and made them look like Barcelona in their prime, our one and only game plan was to sit back and hoof it at any given chance ( we ain’t done that all season so your theory about Sam not having time is bull), we were terrible with 11 men and completely embarrassing with 10 men.
Sometimes the grass isn’t always greener on the other side.
Had we kept bilic, we would have probably got relegated the way things were going, but we would have saw our team of a average players giving it a go, under allerdyce we have the same chances of staying up/going down but only we are going to see dire football for the rest of his time here, sitting back and relying on hoof balls that ain’t going to work.
How ridiculous.
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One game in under Alladyce so far, and we are sprinting towards relegation. This team is not and has never been good enough to stay up. Now they have lost their manager and are being asked to play a brand of football that they is against their instincts. We've hugely damaged our prospects of promotion next season. Next job Bilic gets and if I am Pereira I am straight on the phone to my agent.
We never got going enough to sprint bud and why judge Sam on one game when Bilic had 60+ and still didn't know what he was doing. LIke i said elsewhere, this Bilic squad is as uneven as a Pulis one, this ones tippy tappy with no fight, Pulis was all fight, no tippy tappy. Both just different sides of 1 uneven coin.
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I think the post match interview said it all. Allardyce was clearly unimpressed with our defence and captain. If he is right about one thing we have to defend far better. Until we find the right players at the back we are never going to be in a position to win games. Ajayi looks ok O’Shea will, I think, turn out to be a very good player. That’s it though. Unless we can attract a number of signings in Jan we have no chance.
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I don't think the team is as bad as that, but it feels like we're further away from the level that we need to compete at.
Agreed, some of those players broke the trade descriptions act calling themselves footballers.
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We never got going enough to sprint bud and why judge Sam on one game when Bilic had 60+ and still didn't know what he was doing. LIke i said elsewhere, this Bilic squad is as uneven as a Pulis one, this ones tippy tappy with no fight, Pulis was all fight, no tippy tappy. Both just different sides of 1 uneven coin.
That's the worrying thing though isn't it? We've taken a tippy tappy team and put a manager in charge who doesn't play that well. Are we going to see Periera chasing down long balls? Or will he end up sitting on the edge of the box with the rest of the midfield.
If we were going to replace him we needed a manager who could work with what we have. We won't spend in January, we never do, so asking this lot to suddenly play long ball is an awful idea. Before you know it we'll have Kanu back as the lone forward.
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I did - when I said we were in the game when the red cards happened.
That's why I think tonight was a much worse performance than both the other red card games. At least in those we were competing. We weren't in this game at ANY point, neither before, or after the red card.
Correct. We were getting battered with eleven men. Against Palace we had 50% possession and 9 shots on their goal (4 on target) with 18 shots on our goal (7 on target). Tonight we had just 33% possession and 1 shot. Villa had 19 shots with 10 of them on target. Sam Johnstone was busier tonight than he was against Palace. To suggest surrending any attacking play and conceding more chances is an upgrade on the Palace performance is a fallacy, as the stats make clear. Alladyce has already had a big impact - outdated dinosaur tactics that push fans to hide behind the sofa. The manager sacking has also had an impact - to demoralise the players.
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Are you really still trying to justify tonight?
We started the game with zero intention, we were very poor, we were very slow against a side who only played on Thursday and made them look like Barcelona in their prime, our one and only game plan was to sit back and hoof it at any given chance ( we ain’t done that all season so your theory about Sam not having time is bull), we were terrible with 11 men and completely embarrassing with 10 men.
Sometimes the grass isn’t always greener on the other side.
Had we kept bilic, we would have probably got relegated the way things were going, but we would have saw our team of a average players giving it a go, under allerdyce we have the same chances of staying up/going down but only we are going to see dire football for the rest of his time here, sitting back and relying on hoof balls that ain’t going to work.
How ridiculous.
This is spot on.
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Had we kept bilic, we would have probably got relegated the way things were going, but we would have saw our team of a average players giving it a go, under allerdyce we have the same chances of staying up/going down but only we are going to see dire football for the rest of his time here, sitting back and relying on hoof balls that ain’t going to work.
How ridiculous.
Sam Allardyce has a monumental task in front of him. We’ve had nothing but dire football for 12 months now. It’s going to take effort to turn this round.
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I think the post match interview said it all. Allardyce was clearly unimpressed with our defence and captain. If he is right about one thing we have to defend far better. Until we find the right players at the back we are never going to be in a position to win games. Ajayi looks ok O’Shea will, I think, turn out to be a very good player. That’s it though. Unless we can attract a number of signings in Jan we have no chance.
Ajayi has been awful for a while, his passing is really bad. He'll hit 1 good pass in about 10 attempts and concede possession most of the time. He gets skipped over a bit because usually it's Bartley and Ivanovic getting the flack. None of our defence can pass the ball and that's part of the problem - they concede possession too easily or we have to get the midfield drop so deep that it puts way too much of a gap between them and the forward.
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Are you really still trying to justify tonight?
We started the game with zero intention, we were very poor, we were very slow against a side who only played on Thursday and made them look like Barcelona in their prime, our one and only game plan was to sit back and hoof it at any given chance ( we ain’t done that all season so your theory about Sam not having time is bull), we were terrible with 11 men and completely embarrassing with 10 men.
Sometimes the grass isn’t always greener on the other side.
Had we kept bilic, we would have probably got relegated the way things were going, but we would have saw our team of a average players giving it a go, under allerdyce we have the same chances of staying up/going down but only we are going to see dire football for the rest of his time here, sitting back and relying on hoof balls that ain’t going to work.
How ridiculous.
Yes I still am.
Are you still writing off a manager with over 500 top flight games to his name after 72 hours in the job?
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Correct. We were getting battered with eleven men. Against Palace we had 50% possession and 9 shots on their goal (4 on target) with 18 shots on our goal (7 on target). Tonight we had just 33% possession and 1 shot. Villa had 19 shots with 10 of them on target. Sam Johnstone was busier tonight than he was against Palace. To suggest surrending any attacking play and conceding more chances is an upgrade on the Palace performance is a fallacy, as the stats make clear. Alladyce has already had a big impact - outdated dinosaur tactics that push fans to hide behind the sofa. The manager sacking has also had an impact - to demoralise the players.
Our best player was playing before the red card against Palace. ;)
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That's the worrying thing though isn't it? We've taken a tippy tappy team and put a manager in charge who doesn't play that well. Are we going to see Periera chasing down long balls? Or will he end up sitting on the edge of the box with the rest of the midfield.
If we were going to replace him we needed a manager who could work with what we have. We won't spend in January, we never do, so asking this lot to suddenly play long ball is an awful idea. Before you know it we'll have Kanu back as the lone forward.
I've got a hunch the board are going to make more money available in Jan than we think. Not saying 100m etc of course but i think they will. PUrely my opinion. I think we will get 3/4 solid top flight players. 2 on loan and 1 or 2 perms, maybe who want to play in the Euros. I think they will let Sam move on whoever he thinks he can. We have to hope Austin leaves, we have to hope somoene comes in for Gibbs. Get 5m for Sawyers to a decent champo team. It's hoping on hope really we can exercise the clubs bad transfer demons i know. We simply have too much dead weight on good money.
I dont rate HRK but as a lone forward i think he offers more than Grant. Grant was Bilic choice as lone striker even though we were told he cant play it.
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Lets not forget one thing here , whenever we put in a decent show against the big clubs this season under Bilic it was followed by a shocker against someone lesser .
Im no real fan of Sam ( or Bilic for that matter ) but to hang that defeat on him after 4 days in the job ......really ? .
Maybe its best he sees a few of these for what they really are.
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Correct. We were getting battered with eleven men. Against Palace we had 50% possession and 9 shots on their goal (4 on target) with 18 shots on our goal (7 on target). Tonight we had just 33% possession and 1 shot. Villa had 19 shots with 10 of them on target. Sam Johnstone was busier tonight than he was against Palace. To suggest surrending any attacking play and conceding more chances is an upgrade on the Palace performance is a fallacy, as the stats make clear. Alladyce has already had a big impact - outdated dinosaur tactics that push fans to hide behind the sofa. The manager sacking has also had an impact - to demoralise the players.
You’re right that we were awful. But we have been awful in other games too. Fulham and Southampton spring to mind.
I’ve spoken to many pros after managers have been sacked and never really seen any evidence players truly get that attached. There may be some they like more than others, but it’s a case of one goes and another comes. The players are more focused on themselves and their own careers - I doubt they gave a second thought to Bilic tonight.
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Yes I still am.
Are you still writing off a manager with over 500 top flight games to his name after 72 hours in the job?
No, I’m not writing him off after 72 hours in a job, I’ve had the same opinion on him since before he was at our club, he plays terrible ‘football’ if you can call it that and doesn’t guarantee anything more than our last manager.
There’s a reason fans from his previous clubs all feel the same way about him, he just fits into that pulis category hence why only clubs like us go in for them. Any club that has even a pinch of ambition steer clear of these type of managers.
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Sam Allardyce has a monumental task in front of him. We’ve had nothing but dire football for 12 months now. It’s going to take effort to turn this round.
At least it was dire football but in a way that meant we tried playing actual football.
Now we'll get dire football but played in a way that's horrible to watch even if it works.
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The performance was utter garbage, 1 shot in 90 mins. That performance is indefensible, hugely embarrassing.
To think people wanted Bilic gone for what exactly?
They prefer Allardyce. He will get us organised and hard to beat and give us a fighting chance of staying up. And his football is better to watch than Pulis' was. Apparently.
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Furlong has to do better on their first goal but what cost us any chance of getting back into game was captain shambolic, stupid challenge with var being used. Thought our two center halves and Gallagher were the only shining lights with Sam keeping us in it with some good saves. Can't blame new man for our short comings no investment or interest from owner is our main problem.
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I've got a hunch the board are going to make more money available in Jan than we think. Not saying 100m etc of course but i think they will. PUrely my opinion. I think we will get 3/4 solid top flight players. 2 on loan and 1 or 2 perms, maybe who want to play in the Euros. I think they will let Sam move on whoever he thinks he can. We have to hope Austin leaves, we have to hope somoene comes in for Gibbs. Get 5m for Sawyers to a decent champo team. It's hoping on hope really we can exercise the clubs bad transfer demons i know. We simply have too much dead weight on good money.
I dont rate HRK but as a lone forward i think he offers more than Grant. Grant was Bilic choice as lone striker even though we were told he cant play it.
No chance of any of that happening. Nobody is every going to pay £5m for a 29 year old Romain Sawyers. Only championship clubs would be interested (at a fraction of that price) and they are all broke.
Nobody is coming in for Gibbs either, he is earning more with us than he could dream of on the open market.
Nobody else in the Premiership is looking for a new goalkeeper so Johnstone is going nowhere in January.
No money either, else they would have spent some of it in the summer when Bilic was pleading with them.
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S,N.A.F.U.
Villa were as expected better than us tonight in all aspects of the game. After a spend of over £200k they bloody well ought to have been. just a note: Grealish is touted as 'the most fouled' player in the prem. He patently is not, he is the player AWARDED the most fouls but the two have little correlation, when speaking of this talented cheat. But as if it was not enough having players who are worth just what we paid for which was not nearly enough for this div. but also having to contend with the divers cheats, fellow professionals trying to get others sent off by pretending to be mortally injured by the merest contact: referees that couldn't tell a dive if it was Tom Daly on the high board, all topped off by interfering var's who feel they have to get noticed themselves but consistently fail to notice foul or dangerous play when committed against us. At the same time, these same vars never fail to ensure that full and often inappropriate, punishment is visited upon us at the slightest excuse. I know my objectivity might be questioned, and accept this, I unashamedly support West Bromwich Albion, and I witness match by match that we are not being offered a fair chance. Premier league? stick it up your va-ar-se. We need an ownership with enough money to burn to pay top dollar for a first team and 6 subs, as well as greasing the sweaty greedy little palms of enough officials to give us an advantage. even then we got no chance unless we move to Manchester, London or any other 'big city' and change our name to end with city or united ! Not happy but still COYB
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We lost 5-1 to Palace BA.
Both performances AFTER the red cards far worse than tonight.
I take your point but I would also argue that both performances before the red card were far better.
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Sam Allardyce has a monumental task in front of him. We’ve had nothing but dire football for 12 months now. It’s going to take effort to turn this round.
Dire Football for 12 months. Take it you weren't around from 1986 onwards? What was that tonight? 35% possession and 1 shot at Home in a Derby.
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I think the saddest thing tonight is I genuinely don’t care, normally after loosing to the Villa I’m awful company for a few days but I really couldn't care less. Don’t know if it’s VAR, how awful we are as a team, not been able to go to games or just the fact that the board of directors clearly don’t care about putting a competitive team out there this season all so the financial spreadsheet looks good for a guy 5,000 miles away who couldn’t care less.
I think with the current ownership the club has a very very stale feel to it, unless Lai goes quickly I can see us getting relegated and not coming back for a while. The championship is littered with clubs like Blues, Sheff Wednesday, Forrest, Stoke, Derby, Boro. Unless we get some direction from the top it feels as though we are going the same way.
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Just looked at 3 year net spends.
Villas goes upto slightly to 215m
Ours comes down from 15m to 5m net spend
Since we last got relegated from the PL in 2018 we have spent £5m on transfers upto and including now. I am astonished. :-\
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No, I’m not writing him off after 72 hours in a job, I’ve had the same opinion on him since before he was at our club, he plays terrible ‘football’ if you can call it that and doesn’t guarantee anything more than our last manager.
Anyone who believes we have more chance staying up with Sam than we did under bilic are deluded.
There’s a reason fans from his previous clubs all feel the same way about him, he just fits into that pulis category hence why only clubs like us go in for them. Any club that has even a pinch of ambition steer clear of these type of managers.
Exactly, it's not about writing him off - it's that we know exactly the brand of football he'll play. We saw the benefits under Megson but even then fans had had enough by the time he left. We then had Pulis, and the fans had had enough. Then Pardew, same again. Then we get Bilic and we talk about how he's given us hope again and we seem to be on the up and now we're somehow supposed to welcome with open arms a return to the Pulis days.
If he performs a miracle and we stay up will we be happy? I remember a lot of fans saying that they would rather we went down playing nice football and watching exciting matches than sitting through more of Pulisball. Why have some changed their tune?
If a fan wanted Pulis out because of the quality of the football I see no reason that same fan would be happy with Allardyce in charge.
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Just looked at 3 year net spends.
Villas goes upto slightly to 215m
Ours comes down from 15m to 5m net spend
Since we last got relegated from the PL in 2018 we have spent £5m on transfers upto and including now. I am astonished. :-\
We’ll be paying lower wages too. It’s not even just transfer spend.
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I take your point but I would also argue that both performances before the red card were far better.
Agreed. Palace scored 5 from 7 shots on target, Villa scored 3 from 10 shots on target. Our performance tonight was far worse as we got battered from kick off. Against Palace we scored and had 9 shots on target and 50% possession. None of that tonight and yet we conceded more shots on our goal. Villa weren't as clinical as Palace. The marginal VAR offside also helped us. Gallagher who has looked brilliant was ruined tonight by the stay at home park the bus tactics, all attacking patterns of play disappeared. The team has been killed by sacking the popular manager and replacing him with a guy who wants to play a completely different way.
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Just looked at 3 year net spends.
Villas goes upto slightly to 215m
Ours comes down from 15m to 5m net spend
Since we last got relegated from the PL in 2018 we have spent £5m on transfers upto and including now. I am astonished. :-\
That doesn't surprise me. I did a similar calculation when we were last in the Prem on our spend each season. I worked out that we actually had a larger net spend during our first couple of promotions.
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Sam Allardyce has a monumental task in front of him. We’ve had nothing but dire football for 12 months now. It’s going to take effort to turn this round.
Nothing but dire football for 12 months? Not a single match that wasn't "dire"? Completely ridiculous comment. Enjoy the next few months.
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I take your point but I would also argue that both performances before the red card were far better.
Pereira on the pitch in both Fraz.
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No chance of any of that happening. Nobody is every going to pay £5m for a 29 year old Romain Sawyers. Only championship clubs would be interested (at a fraction of that price) and they are all broke.
Nobody is coming in for Gibbs either, he is earning more with us than he could dream of on the open market.
Nobody else in the Premiership is looking for a new goalkeeper so Johnstone is going nowhere in January.
No money either, else they would have spent some of it in the summer when Bilic was pleading with them.
The solution is clear. We need to transfer our owner and board.
Poor jokes aside i dont think the board were willing to give BIlic what he wanted or even go for a small amount of risk once the relationship died in pre-season. I think they will be more trusting with Allardyce out of neccessity.
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Pereira on the pitch in both Fraz.
He isn't going to be able to do much on the edge of his own box with nobody in front of him.
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Dire Football for 12 months. Take it you weren't around from 1986 onwards? What was that tonight? 35% possession and 1 shot at Home in a Derby.
Greg, what’s the Albion 35 years ago got to do with the last 12 months??
We were extremely poor tonight. Another lack of discipline, this time from our captain, in this godforsaken VAR Premier League and we handed the game to the Vile. In fairness though, given the amount of pressure the Vile had us under I thought we did alright to keep it 0-1 until the 84th minute.
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That doesn't surprise me. I did a similar calculation when we were last in the Prem on our spend each season. I worked out that we actually had a larger net spend during our first couple of promotions.
What were our parachute payments for the 2 EFL seasons any idea?
Im going to google in the meantime myself
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The most disappointing thing was setting up for a 0-0 tonight. I understand he didn't have long to work with the team but he would have had a lot of videos to watch. Sending us out with "play like you did against City and you'll get a point, maybe 3 here" is just crazy. What would he have learnt from that? That we're not very good defensively? The videos would have told him that.
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One person pollutes this club and poisons the attitude of all who sail within. If the one at the top is rotten then the disenchantment will filter down throughout the whole organisation. While that ‘man’ in China owns WBA it will only get worse and the worry is all about how much damage will be done during his ownership. Already, the previously good reputation of our Club has dropped into the gutter, thanks to Lai and his acolytes.
FOL (ASAP)
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Saddest thing is that we are in the same division as Wolves and Villa but not in the same league.
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Pereira on the pitch in both Fraz.
He also played until the 70th minute against Everton so if he's the difference between us playing well and not playing well - then you'd be wrong that we played better tonight.
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Parachute payments about 45m then 35m apparently.
Lost 7m in 2018-2019 season so add that to the net spend of 5m on players thats 12m to be accounted for.
2019-20 results will be interesting.
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I think it's been established already that we were diabolical, so I'll look at some of the other talking points.
If Livermore's "tackle" is a red, then so is Hause's. The ref/VAR got it wrong. No ifs, no buts. To not even go and have a look at it is scandalous.
The gamesmanship from the Villa team was just plain sad to watch. Kicking balls away, going down under minimal contact, feigning injury - this is not the spot I fell in love with as a child. Which brings me on to Grealish...
...I have never denied that he is a talented lad as he quite clearly is. But my oh my, what an absolute **** this man is. He has cheated against us multiple times in previous meetings and he just couldn't help himself tonight, could he? There he was, galloping in to a dangerous, possibly goal-scoring opportunity when he decides to fling himself to ground under minimal contact. The fact that it wasn't even seen as a contentious decision is beyond my comprehension. Shame on all those who tolerate this state of affairs.
I said at the start of the season that without significant investment, we had very little chance of survival. This season is going exactly like I thought it would, sadly.
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He also played until the 70th minute against Everton so if he's the difference between us playing well and not playing well - then you'd be wrong that we played better tonight.
I wouldn't, as you aren't taking into account the loss of a player ???
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Saddest thing is that we are in the same division as Wolves and Villa but not in the same league.
We don’t have the money laundering scheme the Dingles have going on nor two billionaire sugar daddies pouring money into the club like the Vile do.
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I think SA will tighten up the defence and maybe stop a few more goals going in, but is he going to get us creating more chances and putting opposition defences under serious pressure? Can't see it happening. To do that you need to get players forward in numbers.
I can only remember one shot on target (or even one shot) tonight. He obviously doesn't want to risk gaps being left at the back, but you have to if you are to score goals. Or is it just going to be send the big guys up for set pieces?
A bit early to start judging him after one game, but its not looking good.
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Saddest thing is that we are in the same division as Wolves and Villa but not in the same league.
Wolves net spent is probably scarier than the Villas but in saying that they have moved a few on for good money.
Just checked and over 3 years Wolves net Spend is £170m
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I think SA will tighten up the defence and maybe stop a few more goals going in, but is he going to get us creating more chances and putting opposition defences under serious pressure? Can't see it happening. To do that you need to get players forward in numbers.
I can only remember one shot on target (or even one shot) tonight. He obviously doesn't want to risk gaps being left at the back, but you have to if you are to score goals. Or is it just going to be send the big guys up for set pieces?
A bit early to start judging him after one game, but its not looking good.
The only shot we had was a 40 yard free kick Phillips took quickly. The only other closest chance we had was the keeper handling it outside the area. That says a lot.
We'll sit deep all game hoping to get a set piece and maybe push on a bit in the last 10 mins hoping to nick a 1-0. Classic.
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As much as we are disgusted with the dire defending in our games, A special mention for our offensive players who contributed nothing again. How much did we spend on our attacking players, but yet we all knew we would be under the kosh in most games.
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Ajayi has been awful for a while, his passing is really bad. He'll hit 1 good pass in about 10 attempts and concede possession most of the time. He gets skipped over a bit because usually it's Bartley and Ivanovic getting the flack. None of our defence can pass the ball and that's part of the problem - they concede possession too easily or we have to get the midfield drop so deep that it puts way too much of a gap between them and the forward.
I thought Ajayi was one of our best players defended really well and cleverly...some of his passes went astray but not significantly. ;D
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As much as we are disgusted with the dire defending in our games, A special mention for our offensive players who contributed nothing again. How much did we spend on our attacking players, but yet we all knew we would be under the kosh in most games.
I wouldn't blame them - just like I wouldn't blame attackers under Pulis or Megson. Our tactics were to sit deep and play like we did against City. Given the chance hoof it forward and chase it down. We had O'Shea and Ajayi trying to hit 40-50 yard passes all night.
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Wolves net spent is probably scarier than the Villas but in saying that they have moved a few on for good money.
Just checked and over 3 years Wolves net Spend is £170m
Totally dwarfs ours doesn’t it.
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Just looked at 3 year net spends.
Villas goes upto slightly to 215m
Ours comes down from 15m to 5m net spend
Since we last got relegated from the PL in 2018 we have spent £5m on transfers upto and including now. I am astonished. :-\
Be careful - net spend if the difference between our player purchases and sales.
So we could have purchased players to a value of £55 million & sold players to a value of £50 million for example & still had a net spend of £5 million.
I believe at the end of 2018 we had a negative net spend because we got a higher value of players sold to those purchased.
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Thats what i mean by net spend. Money out minus money in on completed deals.
Im not referring to market values, just signed deals and amounts.
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I wouldn't blame them - just like I wouldn't blame attackers under Pulis or Megson. Our tactics were to sit deep and play like we did against City. Given the chance hoof it forward and chase it down. We had O'Shea and Ajayi trying to hit 40-50 yard passes all night.
I just hope that those players who can craft an opening with skill don't get forced out of the club. All the work in recruiting and developing them will have been wasted, and the next time we find a footballing manager, he will have to start from scratch again.
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We don’t have the money laundering scheme the Dingles have going on nor two billionaire sugar daddies pouring money into the club like the Vile do.
Thanks for proving my point so well.
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Thats what i mean by net spend. Money out minus money in on completed deals.
Im not referring to market values, just signed deals and amounts.
But net spend is not a good measurement player valuation is more accurate.
Look at the intangible asset values on WBA accounts, that is more representative of the quality of players we have.
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But net spend is not a good measurement player valuation is more accurate.
Look at the intangible asset values on WBA accounts, that is more representative of the quality of players we have.
In terms of what is/was available to spend i'm on about. Im not referring to value of club on paper i'm talking money in the bank.
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Is it just me who almost doesnt know how to react. This hurts tonight and i almost feel like i cant be bothered. Falling out of love with the game slowly, VAR, Albion just makes it so frustrating. Not being in my seat in the brummie doesnt help, not being able to rant or cheer as i normally would.
Im reading everyones thoughts and its like the players dont care, they probably thought today was a training match. Maybe it was good for SA so he knows exactly how bad we are and what he needs to work on. Fitness is an issue straight away.
Tonight hurts more then usual.
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It was rubbish from start to finish - granted we were organised and compact in the second half, but we still failed to lay a glove on them.
I’m not going to comment on Livermore - I just hope he enjoys his Christmas.
Fair play to Villa - they were excellent
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Imagine the 2,000 unlucky souls that had to pay £25 to watch that .
Johnstone only player that gets any credit at all tonight
What 2000 fans?
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Thought that was disgraceful from our skipper tonight. We were awful before that, but he is meant to lead an example. The amount of times that he has flown in with tackles like that. This hardman act gets found out in the Prem.
Sounds like Big Sam ain't happy with it either.
So many other things though. Furlong's defending, complete lack of attacking potential (albeit with 10 men).
Roll on the Pool next week!
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What 2000 fans?
Someone needs to check what tier the ground is still in😂
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Is it just me who almost doesnt know how to react. This hurts tonight and i almost feel like i cant be bothered. Falling out of love with the game slowly, VAR, Albion just makes it so frustrating. Not being in my seat in the brummie doesnt help, not being able to rant or cheer as i normally would.
Im reading everyones thoughts and its like the players dont care, they probably thought today was a training match. Maybe it was good for SA so he knows exactly how bad we are and what he needs to work on. Fitness is an issue straight away.
Tonight hurts more then usual.
I'm the same mate. For I think the first to ever I'm not fussed about watching our next game.
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In terms of what is/was available to spend i'm on about. Im not referring to value of club on paper i'm talking money in the bank.
The club have'nt got any, all of the money is tied up in assets.
The £40 odd million cash we did have was spent in the Pulis era.
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The club have'nt got any, all of the money is tied up in assets.
The £40 odd million cash we did have was spent in the Pulis era.
I'm just trying to guesstimate in my head. Thats why i said seeing the 2019-20 P+L report in a few months will be interesting indeed. We KNOW we lost 7m 18-19.
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Well even after a few hours to reflect I am still vexed beyond belief. The VAR officiating is shocking. They could wait to look at the tackle for Livermore and give him red didnt even bother with their foul on diangana and that was a genuine leg breaker. The livermore one was a harsh yellow but the game has changed and its eventually going to be contactless.
VAR aside we hadn't laid a glove on them before the sending off so not a surprise about afterwards. They had a team of people who could run with the ball. We only had Gallagher and even Phillips who tried to take the ball up the pitch.
Livermore I didnt know was playing. Sawyers anonymous. Diangana looked lost and should and could have been hooked earlier. Grant again didnt offer much. Gibbs and furlong both pants for goal as was johnstone.
Oshea I thought did well and ajayi had been one of our better players until the second goal he lost his head after and give away stupid penalty.
Manager rightly stuck with aide after great performance v man city however the subs after were terrible. Our striker had no service all game then he brought on knees have gone austin... diangana (never in game) Phillips (blowing out his backside) should have been off for grosicki and Robinson.
The only times we ever looked like doing anything with our 10 was a quick break so bringing on grosicki and letting him chase stuff into corner would have been a better strategy.
However the manager was getting a free hit today due to lack of time with team. Hopefully he learned Livermore a liability and only of use in championship. Austin legs have gone. Sawyers isnt answer in cm. Good luck sam you are going to need it
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Just a small point I thought a goalkeeper handling outside the box was a sending off offence,
The ref gave a foul but I don't think the he even booked him.
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Poor defensively, I'll disciplined, no goal threat. I thought we sacked Bilic.
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worst competitive team in over 20 years
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Just a small point I thought a goalkeeper handling outside the box was a sending off offence,
The ref gave a foul but I don't think the he even booked him.
The rules have changed no longer a red card offence. It should have been a yellow, not sure why it wasn't.
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The rules have changed no longer a red card offence. It should have been a yellow, not sure why it wasn't.
Yep. Definitely a yellow. Wasn't like he was even just strayed over the edge of the box. Was a good couple metres out.
On the brightside, at least Mings got booked for his gamesmanship. Always preventing opponents from quick throw-in, frees and keepers releasing the ball.
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Yep. Definitely a yellow. Wasn't like he was even just strayed over the edge of the box. Was a good couple metres out.
On the brightside, at least Mings got booked for his gamesmanship. Always preventing opponents from quick throw-in, frees and keepers releasing the ball.
Wish some of our players would wise up to those arts..
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Wish some of our players would wise up to those arts..
Sadly we instead have a captain who does all he can to talk to refs to stop opponents getting booked. We are far too nice a side.
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Wish some of our players would wise up to those arts..
Grady should have been rolling up the East Stand after that stamp.
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Sadly we instead have a captain who does all he can to talk to refs to stop opponents getting booked. We are far too nice a side.
And far, far too naive.
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Another day another heavy defeat, another red card, another hopeless performance. So done with this season already. The status quo isn’t really helping either.
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one positive is at least Sam is going to conned into thinking things might be ok with a couple of loans in Jan, if he wants to keep his record he and the board need to be in the market right away Jan.
Although we all know this wont happen. I already have a horrible feeling that Sam will walk end Jan with the lack of funds int he Jan market making his job impossible.
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one positive is at least Sam is going to conned into thinking things might be ok with a couple of loans in Jan, if he wants to keep his record he and the board need to be in the market right away Jan.
Although we all know this wont happen. I already have a horrible feeling that Sam will walk end Jan with the lack of funds int he Jan market making his job impossible.
I think the board will have given Allardyce assurances that he will have money to spend in the window. I'm assuming Allardyce was satisfied with the money offered otherwise why take the job?
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I think the board will have given Allardyce assurances that he will have money to spend in the window. I'm assuming Allardyce was satisfied with the money offered otherwise why take the job?
I have a feeling he thought the team was better than this, whereas we've known this team is miles away from staying up an outsider might think, they've got some half descent players. Only when you are in the bubble does the real horror become apparent.
We've been shocking for an entire calendar year now, a manager isn't going to change that without serious personal changes.
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I have a feeling he thought the team was better than this, whereas we've known this team is miles away from staying up an outsider might think, they've got some half descent players. Only when you are in the bubble does the real horror become apparent.
We've been shocking for an entire calendar year now, a manager isn't going to change that without serious personal changes.
which is why I believe that Allardyce has been promised funds to bring in a few players.
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It's worrying that this day and age we think the manager needs to have seen a performance like that to judge our players. We have video of every match, from multiple different camera angles, in depth stats for all over the pitch, a new manager shouldn't need to stand there and watch to see that Sawyers never makes a tackle.
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Wish some of our players would wise up to those arts..
Yep. Villa were bickering and complaining about almost every corner, throw-in or free-kick that didn't go there way. Mings in particular regularly running away with the ball when the opposition have a throw or free kick to allow his team get back into a defensive shape. Big shouts whenever they go down. And not just yesterday. Seems to be a feature since at least Smith came in. Seems to be working for them.
Whereas we seemed very mute in comparison and if a throw doesn't go our way we just throw our hands up apologetically. As mentioned Diangana, didn't seem to make much of a deal with his ankle stamped on in comparison to the loud vociferous scream that Grealish let out when Livermore went into him.
Seems to help give Villa another edge over us and set part of their stall out for the game; although in fairness they had comprehensively outplayed us in every other facet as well.
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And that says it all. I reckon even I’d have a chance of putting a reasonable team together for £210m, but a football God would struggle with just 7% of that money.
But Albion have always been the same, all through my lifetime. If they could do it on the cheap, they would. We’d spend ages looking at players before someone else signed them (the likes of Paul Mariner), we wouldn’t gamble £5k on Cyrille Regis, we repeatedly sold our best players and we built a Halfords Lane stand that was out of date and modest even by the standards of 1980. And we had a very good team and money coming in at that time, but never let ambition stand in the way of saving a few quid.
So in some ways it’s how we’ve always been. It’s amazing we’ve managed to spend as much time as we have in the top flight since my first game in Feb 1973.
You seem to have forgotten that we paid £450K for David Mills - the most expensive transfer at that time!
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Sam Allardyce has a monumental task in front of him. We’ve had nothing but dire football for 12 months now. It’s going to take effort to turn this round.
Ha! Ha! The boot is now on the other foot.
You are going to have great difficulty in defending the football we are about to endure by blaming the fitness of the squad - as you have on another post?
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Ha! Ha! The boot is now on the other foot.
You are going to have great difficulty in defending the football we are about to endure by blaming the fitness of the squad - as you have on another post?
They are extremely unfit though?
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The substitutions made sense to me. At 1-0 and the way the game was playing out our best chance of an equaliser was to get something from a set-piece. Austin is probably our most clinical finisher and Ivanovic has scored goals frequently during his career from such situations.
At 1-0 with 10 men, I think the tactics were spot on. Obviously once the second goal goes in the game is done but for us to have a chance of getting something going into the last 10 minutes of the game showed know-how from Big Sam, in contrast to the capitulation against Palace.
Unfortunately, I think targeting set-pieces for goal will have to be our way forward. Keep it as tight as we can at the back, play more direct, win set-pieces and actually use the set-pieces. It's a crying shame that in two years we've gone from being very clinical from set-pieces to being pretty hopeless. They are such a big part of the game and we need to take advantage of them from now on, as let's face it, with our squad we aren't going to be able to 'out-football' any teams in this league.
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One point we have to question is why did we wait until the 78th and 83rd minutes to make our substitutions? The only possible argument might be that we wanted to protect our already poor goal difference. But most important is getting points on the board.
Substituting that late you are only going to have 3 or 4 attacks at the most.
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One point we have to question is why did we wait until the 78th and 83rd minutes to make our substitutions? The only possible argument might be that we wanted to protect our already poor goal difference. But most important is getting points on the board.
Substituting that late you are only going to have 3 or 4 attacks at the most.
Because of what happened virtually as soon as we did it. It's a roll of the dice only earned by keeping it at one nil until the last 15 minutes.
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Big Sam looked completely shell shocked in his post match interview. I don't think he expected to witness something so bad. We will need another 4/5 starters to stand any chance whatsoever.
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To be fair to Big Sam, in the couple of minutes following the switch and before their second goal, we had started to keep the ball a bit better, it did seem to be working. Sadly, Ajayi then proceeded to gift them two goals and the rest was history, not something Big Sam could legislate for.
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Because of what happened virtually as soon as we did it. It's a roll of the dice only earned by keeping it at one nil until the last 15 minutes.
Being down to 10 gives some excuse, but I hope this won't be the shape of things if we are 11 v 11. Normally when you are behind in a football match you make changes, whether tactical or substitutions. Normally at half time, but certainly not later than 60 minutes. To pin all our hopes on the last 10 minutes, the odds are stacked against.
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Had to go to bed right on the final whistle, should have retired earlier! & only just got on from work so couldn't comment before now!
I'll give Sam the benefit of the doubt, but setting up to defend away to Manchester City is one thing, but the same 11 and set up at home to Aston f ing Villa well was just asking for trouble, and so it was! I wonder how long it will be before the likes of pereira, diangana, krovinovic hand in transfer requests if the ball keeps sailing over their heads! Also, can a player request their loan be cancelled?
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Being down to 10 gives some excuse, but I hope this won't be the shape of things if we are 11 v 11. Normally when you are behind in a football match you make changes, whether tactical or substitutions. Normally at half time, but certainly not later than 60 minutes. To pin all our hopes on the last 10 minutes, the odds are stacked against.
I'd say Sams strategy once we went down to 10 was keep it solid, keep it 1-0 and then we have 10-15mins to open up and go for the equalizer. Semi then went and had a mad 5 minutes similar to Ivanovich at Newcastle and single handedly threw it all out the window.
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You seem to have forgotten that we paid £450K for David Mills - the most expensive transfer at that time!
I wondered if someone would mention that - and I hadn’t forgotten it at all. Who could?
If I recall correctly the main reason the club laid out the sum was because they’d made unbudgeted profits from the unexpected level of success and were facing a large tax bill.
In the next tax year (a few months later) they recouped almost double the sum by selling Laurie Cunningham. And the brief golden era of 1978-9 was over.
Mills for Cunningham and more than £400k in the bank. And we saved on the tax bill.
Typical Albion.
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They are extremely unfit though?
Well, Austin certainly is! Why, bring him on?
I am afraid Jacko - this is the usual diatribe from bitter fans and coaches who are not getting the expected bounce from the players.
Blaming the outgoing coach can only last for a short time before the fans again become restless! Allardyce needs a reaction from the players and pronto!
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Well, Austin certainly is! Why, bring him on?
I am afraid Jacko - this is the usual diatribe from bitter fans and coaches who are not getting the expected bounce from the players.
Blaming the outgoing coach can only last for a short time before the fans again become restless! Allardyce needs a reaction from the players and pronto!
We've conceded I believe 19 goals in the 2nd half of games this season. Numerous comments have been passed regards lack of fitness and intensity throughout this season, not just yesterday evening. The only people who appear bitter at this stage very early in the new managers tenure are the people who were against his appointment.
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The difference is the level of fitness for me. We just look constantly leggy and slow. Villa, Leeds etc looks seriously ahead of us in these stakes.
But it’s not just physical fitness we look mentally tired which is where the mistakes come from in the second half of games.
Since the return after covid this has been a major issue. Sav never solved it, we have to hope Sam can but I can only see this happening with around 5 or 6 new players.
This won’t happen with this board.
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Might be my shonky memory but i dont remember them being unfit during the fantastic first half of last season or am i wrong?
Come Jan they were exhausted and after the restart they seemed even worse and that has just continued. Get a new fitness coach in.
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Might be my shonky memory but i dont remember them being unfit during the fantastic first half of last season or am i wrong?
Come Jan they were exhausted and after the restart they seemed even worse and that has just continued. Get a new fitness coach in.
Nothing wrong with their fitness against Man City. Each and every one worked their socks off for the full 90+ minutes. Yet a few days later we need a new fitness coach. ::)
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Nothing wrong with their fitness against Man City. Each and every one worked their socks off for the full 90+ minutes. Yet a few days later we need a new fitness coach. ::)
What do you put it down to Tim? If they can play like that for one game why didn't they manage it for the last 30+ games under Bilic and the first game under Allardyce?
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What do you put it down to Tim? If they can play like that for one game why didn't they manage it for the last 30+ games under Bilic and the first game under Allardyce?
They didn't play badly for all of the other games. Whatever the reasons for the poorer performances, one of them wasn't fitness. It's not something you can turn on and off.
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If we look at the games since March especially the workrate has been terrible. If you dont think it's fitness then i can only think it's poor attitude or application so why spend all that money on them and fight so hard to bring them back?
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If we look at the games since March especially the workrate has been terrible. If you dont think it's fitness then i can only think it's poor attitude or application so why spend all that money on them and fight so hard to bring them back?
Well, I don't agree that the workrate has been terrible since March, so the rest of the discussion is immaterial.
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Well, I don't agree that the workrate has been terrible since March, so the rest of the discussion is immaterial.
Tim has spoken. So it it written so it shall be done.
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If we look at the games since March especially the workrate has been terrible. If you dont think it's fitness then i can only think it's poor attitude or application so why spend all that money on them and fight so hard to bring them back?
The fitness isn’t where it should be and hasn’t been for some time now Gaz. I’m really not sure why we’ve looked so drained for so long? It was even more noticeable after the 3 month hiatus and in my view hasn’t really improved.
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Tim has spoken. So it it written so it shall be done.
Haha. I don't agree that the workrate has been terrible since March. It's just a difference of opinion. No need for sarcasm or petty comments. ;D
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The fitness isn’t where it should be and hasn’t been for some time now Gaz. I’m really not sure why we’ve looked so drained for so long? It was even more noticeable after the 3 month hiatus and in my view hasn’t really improved.
So in which matches this season do you think we have looked unfit?
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The fitness isn’t where it should be and hasn’t been for some time now Gaz. I’m really not sure why we’ve looked so drained for so long? It was even more noticeable after the 3 month hiatus and in my view hasn’t really improved.
I'm baffled i really am Partisan. Maybe it was all just a bit comfortable. I really don't know.
Haha. I don't agree that the workrate has been terrible since March. It's just a difference of opinion. No need for sarcasm or petty comments. ;D
Sorry i was making a (rubbish) joke, i probably should i have put a smiley on the end. Not being sarcy.
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I'm baffled i really am Partisan. Maybe it was all just a bit comfortable. I really don't know.
Sorry i was making a (rubbish) joke, i probably should i have put a smiley on the end. Not being sarcy.
Apology accepted :)
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What do you put it down to Tim? If they can play like that for one game why didn't they manage it for the last 30+ games under Bilic and the first game under Allardyce?
Aerobic Vs anaerobic fitness. Much easier to maintain a steady pace for 90 minutes than making sprints and having the endurance to keep that going over a match.
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Aerobic Vs anaerobic fitness. Much easier to maintain a steady pace for 90 minutes than making sprints and having the endurance to keep that going over a match.
Thanks Mark. So why is virtually every other team in the 2 top divisions able to outlast us and what can we do to improve it?
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Gentlemen and Ladies.
Feel any better about that Villa result after Palace got the same result with a man extra?
I know some will say 'no, I only care about Albion results' which is fine, but it does seem to put a slightly better complexion on ours. Mind you I didn't see the match, did they have the referee onside again?
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Gentlemen and Ladies.
Feel any better about that Villa result after Palace got the same result with a man extra?
I know some will say 'no, I only care about Albion results' which is fine, but it does seem to put a slightly better complexion on ours. Mind you I didn't see the match, did they have the referee onside again?
Not really, played Palace on the break. Grealish excellent again. Won plenty of freekicks and converted from one of them.
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They went down to 10 men and started to really fight, we went down to 10 men and gave up. SA has to change the players' mindset.
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They went down to 10 men and started to really fight, we went down to 10 men and gave up. SA has to change the players' mindset.
Definitely an attitude/mindset issue to me. They were fine till the 2nd goal then collapsed. Unacceptable. Bilic tried to limp us over the line soon after last seasons restart and its confidence destroying. Very damaging to a players psyche.
Obviously in agreement we dont have the greatest squad but it can do more than it has done. Whether thats good enough now or too late who knows