[KingKoren]

The only way he can get match fit is by picking up minutes in games, which Irvine refuses to give him!

If Irvine never gives him a chance citing tactical reasons then I'll criticise him for it. I think at this stage that is unfair. Christmas is a hectic period all the non-injured players will have their opportunity. I want them to take it and I 'm sure Irvine does too.

[maccbaggie]

I maintain our biggest problem is with the Downing / Keily clique thing. It has always struck me that these people are too close to the players, some of whom have too much of a say in what goes on (hence the Mel situation).

I don't like the head coach thing, we need  a manager and he needs to bring in his own staff that he knows and trusts.

Until Downing / Keily go and that clique amongst the players is dismantled we're always going to have a big problem.

Totally agree. What have Downing and Kiely done during their coaching careers to justify their seemingly unsackable status? When Downing was given the chance as head coach, he played Gera at wing-back with Amalfitano behind the striker. Absolutely baffling and leaves you questioning the intellect of many of the so-called "respected" individuals in football. Kiely on the other hand can barely string a sentence together on Twitter, for what that's worth.

[albion59]

Perhaps he had fit wingers at his disposal.

Why can't he be? Genuine question? By all accounts he is fantastic coach and an organiser like Roy.

There's no way Jeremy Peace isn't aware the majority of fans don't like Irvine he doesn't care.  So what does voicing this opinion achieve? Negative atmosphere. Players are more tentative. Attending games is less enjoyable.

I agree however majority opinion doesn't interest me. Most fans are not intelligent.

how arrogant of you to suggest that football fans are not intelligent, just because the one's you know aren't doesn't mean the rest of us are.by the way i have an iq of 161.

[maccbaggie]

If Irvine never gives him a chance citing tactical reasons then I'll criticise him for it. I think at this stage that is unfair. Christmas is a hectic period all the non-injured players will have their opportunity. I want them to take it and I 'm sure Irvine does too.

He's been left out for tactical reasons for the last two weeks, Irvine admitted so himself.

Fair enough, but we've seen nothing to suggest Irvine wants to play these players any time soon.

[KingKoren]

Behave, of course I'll give him credit, where it's due. If he comes out and says he's been holding Varela back for West Ham and then Varela is superb I'll say well done. Problem is everyone else will say why didn't you pick him the last 2 games. And none of us will know whether it's true.

Because Hodgson had a modicum of tactical nous. Something Irvine is devoid of. He has no experience of being a success either.

Would a manager even admit that publicly because of what you have suggested? It's a lose lose situation.

Well we were incredibly fortunate to get someone with Hodgson's reputation, I don't think it'll happen again anytime soon. Terry Burton thinks Alan Irvine is up to it. Regardless of what his said he has done ok so far. Let's see when we are after 19 games. We could be pleasantly surprised if not he may well be gone.
 

[TheJacko2000]

Would a manager even admit that publicly because of what you have suggested? It's a lose lose situation.

Well we were incredibly fortunate to get someone with Hodgson's reputation,I don't think it'll happen again anything soon. Terry Burton thinks Alan Irvine is up to it. Regardless of what his said he has done ok so far. Let's see when we are after 19 games. We could be pleasantly surprised if not he may well be gone. Can't lose.

We can lose because after 19 games it's too late.

Also Terry Burton is new to the role he is in. His blessing is hardly a ringing endorsement. We need to dismantle this DoF approach. The restrictions were relaxed hugely with Hodgson unsurprisingly.

[maccbaggie]

I'm retiring for the night. I've enjoyed the debate even if I'm somewhat bewildered by the degree to which some members have defended Irvine, considering the dire football paired with a points per game average that will see us relegated or on the boundary of it.

[KingKoren]

He's been left out for tactical reasons for the last two weeks, Irvine admitted so himself.

Fair enough, but we've seen nothing to suggest Irvine wants to play these players any time soon.

Well if a knackered Dorrans is started ahead of him against West Ham after just a few days rest and Varela is fully fit I will criticise that decision.

[KingKoren]

We can lose because after 19 games it's too late.

Also Terry Burton is new to the role he is in. His blessing is hardly a ringing endorsement. We need to dismantle this DoF approach. The restrictions were relaxed hugely with Hodgson unsurprisingly.

Roy took over in February so how is 19 games too late? Whoever took over would surely not be far of a point a game either seeing as we have 13 now.

So if he wasn't in the role he'd say Irvine isn't up to it? He is vastly experienced and thinks he is an excellent coach end of. Well that's not going to happen is it?

[TheJacko2000]

Roy took over in February so how is 19 games too late? Whoever took over would surely not be far of a point a game either seeing as we have 13 now.

So if he wasn't in the role he'd say Irvine isn't up to it? He is vastly experienced and thinks he is an excellent coach end of. Well that's not going to happen is it?

I think it may, if the rest of this week goes badly that'll be the 3rd "head coach" he's had to sack in 12 months. I think he'll bring in Pulis on a 3 or 4 year contract and get rid of Kiely Downing and Burton  and start a new era at the club.

[KingKoren]

I think it may, if the rest of this week goes badly that'll be the 3rd "head coach" he's had to sack in 12 months. I think he'll bring in Pulis on a 3 or 4 year contract and get rid of Kiely Downing and Burton  and start a new era at the club.

I would not bet on it mate.

Let's hope this thread goes quiet Tuesday evening as it means we'll have won.

[Sted1990]

I have never once called for a manger to go but for the first time I think it's best for all parties that Irvine goes, I have no doubt he's a "great" coach but West Bromwich Albion need some one new, a man with passion a man with the personality to galvanise every single fan

[KingKoren]

I have never once called for a manger to go but for the first time I think it's best for all parties that Irvine goes, I have no doubt he's a "great" coach but West Bromwich Albion need some one new, a man with passion a man with the personality to galvanise every single fan

Dejavu step forward Pepe 

[Legend]

Dejavu step forward Pepe 

Bloody hope not! 

[geoff]

I honestly believe he doesn't think there is anything wrong.

Madely and a couple of sycophants came across as very smug pre kick-off in a discussion on twitter about the new signings, the point being Irvine has as good as said they're not good enough.

Spot on, he really thinks his tactics & substitutions are right  Its all down to BAD LUCK.

[spencer Baggie]

Lose vs West Ham and he's gone.

Trust me.

[tuamigos]

Lose vs West Ham and he's gone.

Trust me.

Hope so, I'm off to the States next week and won't the back before Christmas so heres looking to an early Christmas present

[gavinrussell]

As soon as i saw Irvine in consultation with Downing i switched my stream off and took the dogs for a walk...this isnt going to get any better. He is not the right man for this job and we have carried the backroom baggage for far too long. I used to enjoyed saturdays when at least the team win lose or draw looked like they had an idea or two. Now i find myself becoming bitter and twisted and for  the first time in 45 years not wanting to watch my team.

[Atomic]

As soon as i saw Irvine in consultation with Downing i switched my stream off and took the dogs for a walk...this isnt going to get any better. He is not the right man for this job and we have carried the backroom baggage for far too long. I used to enjoyed saturdays when at least the team win lose or draw looked like they had an idea or two. Now i find myself becoming bitter and twisted and for  the first time in 45 years not wanting to watch my team.

I understand you completely. "Consulting with Downing" - what the hell does Downing know? He was a lower league footballer and has achieved what as a coach that surpasses that achievement? Perhaps like Irvine he has all the badges and has completed all the courses. Well, guess what, football isn't played on paper and certificates don't get you points - they mean naughty word all at the end of the day.

They are competing against huge clubs, world class managers and coaches and world class players. They are totally out of their depth.

[iwastherein68]

I think Mel was put in an untenable position, at the time people were saying "right man wrong time". I find it really weird to be honest how the squad would seem to have been chosen with Mel in mind but with Irvine to manage. This might be the result of the disjointed system we are working  under.

My thoughts exactly, Mel just may have done something with these players, and by the way Theivy would have been a far better option than Samaras.

[WorcsWBA]

When they play they show nothing, in training they show nothing, they aren't as fit. Why would you pick them over the regulars?

It's curious how you accuse others of conjecture and then come out with stuff like this. As for them not being fit, he's not giving them gamer time to get them fit.

Constantly not giving players any game time and then stating they'll be needed during December is very poor management. If Irvine does suddenly start picking these players, and he's implied he'll do things before and then not done them, it'll be very difficult for them to go into games cold.

Although it is conjecture, one reason why Irvine doesn't select them could be that, if they did do well, he would be under pressure to keep them in the side and that would ruin his overall defensive "masterplan".

[WorcsWBA]

The worrying signs that I saw regularly at Hillsborough are appearing to the fore here.

Indeed, if you look back to the time he was appointed, something that shone clear from the comments of fans from other clubs he's managed was his obsession with praising the opposition before we play them and he's doing exactly the same thing now.

I like Irvine - he is a studious head coach, a good man and someone you can trust.

I don't feel I can trust him at all. He has an endless list of excuses, implies he's going to do things and then doesn't do them (e.g. increase the involvement of Varela) and suggests that he spends ages picking the side for every game, when all he actually does is pretty much pick the same side every week unless he's forced to change it due to injury or suspension. He also described exactly the way we should have played against Chelsea, for example, and then didn't send the team out to do that at all.

[WorcsWBA]

Mowbray has an appalling record as a manager since leaving us. I liked him and the football his results overall were poor.

Delivering our first league title since 1920, an FA Cup semi-final and a play-off final are poor?

[Dudleylad]

Was and still is, 15 goals in 28 games for Malmo this season suggests there is pedigree so questions should be asked what went wrong here and why he wasn't given a proper chance in the role he does best as he seems to get elsewhere.

You must have heard me say this yesterday.

We have to look deep into our set up to find out why these players cant perform once here...........they all cant be bad.

[BB74]

You must have heard me say this yesterday.

We have to look deep into our set up to find out why these players cant perform once here...........they all cant be bad.

Yeah but did find Mulumbu so all's ok.