I'm really angry. This doesn't feel like my club anymore.
What use JP's shares when we are down a league. Or even two.
I honestly feel like sitting next season out and I've never felt that before.
What Fing lesson have you learnt, Peace? I've nothing but contempt for you now you (omitted on legal advice)
Here is his Prem experience:
"He has also managed Preston North End, who he took to the Championship Play-offs in 2009, and Sheffield Wednesday in the Championship and League One."
What's that? Oh yes, he hasn't got any! His best "achievement" has been to get Preston into the Championship play-offs! From Wikipedia:
"Irvine was appointed manager of Sheffield Wednesday on 8 January 2010. Wednesday got off to a good start under Irvine, winning games against Barnsley, Blackpool and Peterborough United. Irvine was named Championship Manager of the month for January 2010. This form was not sustained, however, as on the last day of the season Wednesday needed a home win against Crystal Palace to avoid relegation. The match ended in a 2–2 draw, relegating Wednesday to League One.
Wednesday then had severe financial issues, with the club appearing in court twice over winding up orders. Following the successful takeover by Milan Mandaric at the end of 2010, Irvine was allowed transfer funds to revamp his squad. Despite making several new signings, the team continued to have consistently poor results. On 3 February 2011, Wednesday sacked Irvine with the side lying 12th in League One."
Well, Mr Peace, please do tell us exactly what it is that you've learned? We're dying to know!
What a joke - I hope they do refunds on season tickets
Im going to give him his chance at the end of the day.
Not happy at the appointment in the slightest but he has to be supported
WBAFCofficial â€@WBAFCofficial 7mAnd, in a nutshell, that's what it boils down to at the end of the day. In the world Peace lives in, that's more important than anything else (oh and the cheapness of course). Absolutely mind-boggling.
Burton: "With the support of Keith and Dean, we firmly believe we have put in place the right coaching team to move the club forward.†2/2
I actually had to Google Irvine to find out who he was...
I'm struggling to see how you go from holding talks with Moyes, to giving the job to his fking tea boy!!
???
Halesowen town next season for me!
He's been widely dubbed as the worst manager Sheffield Wednesday have ever appointed.
A man who took a stable Championship club to a relegation battle in league one...
Just let that sink in.
What a complete joke and a joke of a club. Well peace said we are a championship team and now he's put the structure in place. What must pepe fell like. I destest Jeremy Peace.
We won't now get the interest of seeing what Sherwood can do- if it ultimately failed at least it would have been interesting.
We should choose a day and all go and demonstrate. I also had to google him. What a joke.
Can't get moyes so get his former assistant.Despite the club trying to big up Irvine's role at Everton, he wasn't Moyes' assistant.
This sounds like a very good plan.
This sounds like a very good plan.first home game and every home game
We should choose a day and all go and demonstrate. I also had to google him. What a joke.
Just out of interest what type of football does irvine play?
Just out of interest what type of football does irvine play?
Just tweeted by Chris Lepkowski:
"Downing and Kelly are very good pals from time at WW"
Just tweeted by Chris Lepkowski:
"Downing and Kelly are very good pals from time at WW"
Just tweeted by Chris Lepkowski:Told ya day I
"Downing and Kelly are very good pals from time at WW"
Despite the club trying to big up Irvine's role at Everton, he wasn't Moyes' assistant.
What a load of rubbish, we wait nearly 5 weeks for that. we are just a laughing stock. What was all the rubbish about not making the same mistakes, I think we can safely say this is worse. I dread to think what type of players we will attract, if any. All JP crappy speech counts for nothing. Anyway playing in the rubbish new strip will just about put the finishing touch to it all. I bet theres a few people down the road laughing there socks off. OOPS sorry don't mention socks. I think after all the years I have followed WBA its time to get a life. and sod em.yes sod kendo , vote with our feet might make peace urine off
I bet most of the remains of our 1st team are texting their agents as we speak! ;Dwho cares they can all go
I would encourage a many of you as possible to get refunds on your season tickets. Seriously. We, as a fan base, have been taken for mugs.
Jeremy's statement of intent leads to nothing. We've appointed a man with no premier league experience, who relegated his last club, has little to no personality and will do nothing to inspire / attract players to the club. At a time when the fan base needed to be united in our venture forwards.
Whats worse, we've given him a 12 month rolling contract. In 4 months time we know that the players won't have any assurances over his future, will give up the ghost, and we'll be relegated.
I am furious. Beyond angry. This might be the last straw for me and this club. I'll put my effort in to local clubs like Bromsgrove and Kiddy.
Ask yourselves why, too. Its because JP is too tight with the purse strings, is too detached from the fan base and is too protective of the back room coaching staff.
We're going to be relegated, with a whimper. I genuinely have little regard for our chairman anymore, and he can f*ck off in to the sunset with his profits.
You can also tell from this appointment how the transfer window will go regards to spending..
All I can suggest to people is vote with your money and get a refund on your season ticket.
Funny how our relegation odds have just shortened dramatically.
I said a week ago we'd get a poo appointment on night of England game.
burying the news.
I'm in shock.
utterly utterly underwhelmed.
Just out of interest what type of football does irvine play?
In two years we've gone from current England manager Roy Hodgson to sacked league one manager Alan Irvine. We should have kept Steve Clarke.wasnt alan irvine a albion target about 10 years ago.
3/1 i'd say the bookies are being very generous - i'd have us odds on.
In all seriousness how do we convince players to join us now?
From my bit of research, Irvine is leaving a job as Academy chief at Everton for us (hence why he's not managed in the league for a while). Between him and Sherwood's tendency to use young players I think it tells you in which direction Peace wants to go.. He really wants the academy producing something it seems.
In two years we've gone from current England manager Roy Hodgson to sacked league one manager Alan Irvine. We should have kept Steve Clarke.
How much do we know about Rob Kelly ? I see he was with Irvine at Sheff Wed which is hardly a positive.
wasnt alan irvine a albion target about 10 years ago.
Where's the ambition? Where's the forward thinking?
Extremely negative football.
Plenty of hoof ball.
And god help us if we ever take a lead because we will spend the remainder of the game trying to defend it.
At SWFC he set his team up to defend a for the remainder of the game when they were losing 1-0.
What I can't believe is that its reported he 'impressed in interviews'.He probably impressed them by saying - "I'd like to bring in Rob Kelly as my chosen coach and he's great mates with Keith Downing, you know...."
I'm a member on a Sheffield Wednesday forum and asked them about Alan Irvine.
Here are their comments - they don't make for comfortable reading.
http://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic/213791-alan-irvine/
My summer is ruined with this scandalous appointment.
I have just sent an email addressed to Peace, I done expect an answer for him but I have said that now he has killed all the love I have had for the club that I have supported for 45 years.
Link doesn't work, but I assume they're not overly flattering
Ah. You have to be a member to access. I'll post the worst of the comments.You should post the best of the comments and, if they're bad, we'll definitely know that we're screwed! >:(
WBAFCofficial @WBAFCofficial · 4mI want a refund - I am sitting here in shock and actually feel sick
Albion delighted to announce Alan Irvine will be appointed as their new Head Coach. He has agreed a 12-month rolling contract #wba 1/3
WBAFCofficial @WBAFCofficial · 4m
Irvine will complete his move to The Hawthorns once he has officially signed off from his current role as Everton’s academy manager 2/3
WBAFCofficial @WBAFCofficial · 3m
Irvine will bring Rob Kelly to work as Joint-Assistant Head Coach alongside Keith Downing, whilst Dean Kiely will remain as GK Coach 3/3
Some tweets I've seen from Sheff Wed fans:
""Alan Irvine is shocking and VERY defensive minded #swfc"
Just out of interest what type of football does irvine play?
Can someone please answer this question I am completely serious:
Is it possible to cancel a season ticket?
I feel robbed tbh
Link doesn't work, but I assume they're not overly flatteringProbably as flattering as Bristol City Fans would be to Mcinnes, OR Liverpool fans were to Hodgson.
I cannot think of any appointment greeted as negatively as this.....To put it mildly.
What's his email address?You have you send it to enquiries@wbafc.co.uk but don't expect any answer from Peace you will just get the standard email response that we have passed your email on to the appropriate department (the bin) I think if enough supporters send emails he will have to take notice of how we feel about this ridiculous appointment, but would he care? probably not.
He worked with Mad Billy Davies at Nottingham Forest too.
He was a target before we appointed RDM.
Just been on the club website:
4.3. All Stilecards are sold on a non-refundable basis.
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/tickets/stilecard/index.aspx#wyAqOuzcBV1fGhm3.99 (http://www.wba.co.uk/tickets/stilecard/index.aspx#wyAqOuzcBV1fGhm3.99)
I am so gutted. I really feel cheated after purchasing a season ticket. Is that the best we can do. I am almost speechless. I wont be putting anymore money into the club. Nothing not a coffee at half time nothing. I understand that the stile cards are non refundable. I am so angry and upset I can't think straight. I don't know what to say or do. Its even spoilt tonights England game. I want to hear Peace's justification for this appointment.
You have you send it to enquiries@wbafc.co.uk but don't expect any answer from Peace you will just get the standard email response that we have passed your email on to the appropriate department (the bin) I think if enough supporters send emails he will have to take notice of how we feel about this ridiculous appointment, but would he care? probably not.
Wasn't that Dave Kelly
We'll anyway, welcome Alan, and good luck mate.
First thing is that like nearly all supporters I was expecting a far higher profile appointment than this.I want whatever happy pills your on!
However Albion are our Club and lets give the guy a chance, there was clearly a good impression left from the time when he just lost out to RDM.
Irvine achieved far more at Preston than any other manager has since. As for the Sheffield Wednesday thing I would not read too much into the fans forum as there were clearly problems with the Board. It seems to me that the Club reneged on the financial backing he was promised and the job became near to impossible.
Lastly there is a widespread misunderstanding on here as to the contract that Irvine has been given. It is a twelve month rolling contract and not a cheap option. Loads of managers in the Premiership and throughout European football are on this type of contract. It basically means that if the Club want him out at any time then they have to pay him twelve months salary and if he wants to go elsewhere then his new employers have to pay Albion twelve months compensation.
PNE fan here, registered in total peace to give you a PNE perspective on Irvine.
Some of you will remember us as a club that was always up there, near the top of the championship, pushing for play offs but never quite making it. All that changed with Irvines appointment. He single handedly destroyed our club. turned us from a team that were always exciting to watch to one that was as dull as dishwater.
Anyway, here we are, still in div 1, it started with him, and weve never recovered. The most dreadful boring managerial appointment PNE have ever made.
I wish you luck, youre seriously going to need it.
Anyway take a look at what PNE fans are saying on here: http://www.pne-online.net/forum/showthread.php?87616-Alan-Irvine-gets-West-Brom-job.
First thing is that like nearly all supporters I was expecting a far higher profile appointment than this.
However Albion are our Club and lets give the guy a chance, there was clearly a good impression left from the time when he just lost out to RDM.
Irvine achieved far more at Preston than any other manager has since. As for the Sheffield Wednesday thing I would not read too much into the fans forum as there were clearly problems with the Board. It seems to me that the Club reneged on the financial backing he was promised and the job became near to impossible.
Lastly there is a widespread misunderstanding on here as to the contract that Irvine has been given. It is a twelve month rolling contract and not a cheap option. Loads of managers in the Premiership and throughout European football are on this type of contract. It basically means that if the Club want him out at any time then they have to pay him twelve months salary and if he wants to go elsewhere then his new employers have to pay Albion twelve months compensation.
I think we'll know how this appointment is likely to go before the start of the season. Will players like Mulumbu, Foster and Olsen still be at the club; and what sort of new players will have arrived?
No sorry can't give him my backing or blessing, we have done this far too many times with JP's moronic appointments, it's about time we started getting back at JP and his extremely bad appointments.Me neither how how on earth do we expect to get any players of any substance with an appointment like this apart from the odd Everton reserve - quite simply unacceptable.
Irvine is JP's man, not ours, so whilst I feel sorry for you Alan, JP must get some major stick over this appointment, as all PNE and SW fans say, he ruined theior clubs, he mus NOT be allowed to ruin ours.
JP and AI out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Woah! Never saw that coming!!
Erm............I dont know what too say
Welcome to the forumHe just did mate! LOL
Can you list us the Alan Irvine's positives?
First thing is that like nearly all supporters I was expecting a far higher profile appointment than this.
However Albion are our Club and lets give the guy a chance, there was clearly a good impression left from the time when he just lost out to RDM.
Irvine achieved far more at Preston than any other manager has since. As for the Sheffield Wednesday thing I would not read too much into the fans forum as there were clearly problems with the Board. It seems to me that the Club reneged on the financial backing he was promised and the job became near to impossible.
Lastly there is a widespread misunderstanding on here as to the contract that Irvine has been given. It is a twelve month rolling contract and not a cheap option. Loads of managers in the Premiership and throughout European football are on this type of contract. It basically means that if the Club want him out at any time then they have to pay him twelve months salary and if he wants to go elsewhere then his new employers have to pay Albion twelve months compensation.
Welcome to the forumOne of the nicest guys youll ever meet,
Can you list us the Alan Irvine's positives?
I seriously feel like killing myself tonight. Should I wait until after the England match?Maybe watching England in a tough world cup match isn't what we all need now!!
I can't quite believe what i'm reading in this thread. You're all condemning a bloke who has averaged a 40%+ win ratio in 170 games as a manager and 1.3+ points per game. That's equivalent to 51 points a season in the Premiership.
Give him a chance folks!
He will bring with him Rob Kelly to work as Joint-Assistant Head Coach alongside Keith Downing, whilst Dean Kiely will remain as Goalkeeping Coach.
That says it all really...cannot understand this obsession to maintain continuity with the backroom staff...when it clearly isn't improving anything on the pitch :-\
I am not a Downing fan (even if he is a good old boy) and to me he had as much to do with our poor performance last season as anyone and yet he seems untouchable. Right now i would take any other Premier League manager instead apart from Lambert (obviously!)
Shocked . Irvine .. really ?....pooh...I thought of John Irvine first of all..the ITV News reporter. In fact i would rather have the latter...
He will bring with him Rob Kelly to work as Joint-Assistant Head Coach alongside Keith Downing, whilst Dean Kiely will remain as Goalkeeping Coach.I am not a Downing fan (even if he is a good old boy) and to me he had as much to do with our poor performance last season as anyone and yet he seems untouchable. Right now i would take any other Premier League manager instead apart from Lambert (obviously!)
That says it all really...cannot understand this obsession to maintain continuity with the backroom staff...when it clearly isn't improving anything on the pitch :-\
Totally and utterly underwhelmed by this appointment...I will freeze the humble pie...but I doubt that I will be eating it any time soon ::)
I can't quite believe what i'm reading in this thread. You're all condemning a bloke who has averaged a 40%+ win ratio in 170 games as a manager and 1.3+ points per game. That's equivalent to 51 points a season in the Premiership.
Give him a chance folks!
I am not a Downing fan (even if he is a good old boy) and to me he had as much to do with our poor performance last season as anyone and yet he seems untouchable. Right now i would take any other Premier League manager instead apart from Lambert (obviously!)Seriously??? I'd take Lambert in a heartbeat over the Division 3 dross we have just appointed.
Seriously??? I'd take Lambert in a heartbeat over the Division 3 dross we have just appointed.Yes serious and I think most Vile fans would agree but at the moment Pearson, Pullis, Poyet, Daish look world beaters!
Probably as flattering as Bristol City Fans would be to Mcinnes, OR Liverpool fans were to Hodgson.
On official websiteI really thought (misguidedly) that Burton would add to the process - TBH i would rather have him as coach now.
Terry Burton says
In the end it came down to two outstanding candidates for the role.
But, following a detailed recruitment process (where the other supposed candidate refused the job because he wanted more money for his assistants) we decided that Alan and the team around him (are the cheapest options and are prepared to work with the two coaches who have jobs for life at the club) are the best suited to tackle the challenges we face in the Barclays Premier League.
What rubbish not only this pathetic appointment they then have the arrogance to insult our intelligence.
Good points.Why i'd rather have had McCinnes than this no hoper!
i dont think we will have problems in attracting new players as there are managers such as monk for swanseaI'd rather have a Shaolin Monk as our manager than Irvine.
His stats are not bad when you look at them quickly
It is done he might not be anyone's first choice but there is little or no point not getting behind him and the team.
Well I knew left field was certainly possible but this is a bit out there. I think he is a coach in the Hodgson mold detailed in preparation and drilling his charges to be well organised. It will not be pretty (Hodgson wasn't) anyone who was championing Moyes can't complain about the football because it is going to be Moyesesque under Irvine.In the Hodgson mould oh please. Roy had managed at international level and all over Europe this bloke wasnt good enough for us 5 years ago and we are supposed to have improved and be a more attractive proposition now!!
It is done he might not be anyone's first choice but there is little or no point not getting behind him and the team.
Smells like relegation. Won't attract any decent players.I think Sherwood would have commanded more respect and brought much needed player discipline which lacked mainly due to Downing I suspect. Sherwood also stood a better chance of getting better players in. You can imagine the the calls:-
However, I'd expect the same (relegation) with Sherwood as well (sacked by Chrtistmas).
They are also not bad when you look at them slowly ;D
His stats are not bad when you look at them quickly
You would be able to read them quick because non of the stats are from the Premier League
Well I knew left field was certainly possible but this is a bit out there. I think he is a coach in the Hodgson mold detailed in preparation and drilling his charges to be well organised. It will not be pretty (Hodgson wasn't) anyone who was championing Moyes can't complain about the football because it is going to be Moyesesque under Irvine.
It is done he might not be anyone's first choice but there is little or no point not getting behind him and the team.
Just a small selection but hardly a glowing reference.Thanks for collating those, Liam. We were hoping someone would be brought in who would unite the fans, but not in this way....
Terry McDermott and Shaun StLedger both saying he's a top coach and a good appointment.
One of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, gets very close to the players.Trying that worked out well for Pepe Mel....
Oh good. We can all sleep easy now. ::)
I can't pretend to know you, but in football matters I might be tempted take the opinion of two international players, one of whom has coached in the Premier League, over yours.
oh and I'm 100% certain season tickets are NOT refundable.Some got refunds after Pepe Mel was sacked. If they don't refund those who request it after them appointing Irvine, I hope someone tests the water in court, if necessary, on the grounds of the Chairman's "lessons learned" propaganda being misrepresentation.
Did you take the opinion of all those people "in the game" that said David Moyes was the right man for Manchester United?
Why i'd rather have had McCinnes than this no hoper!i said all along we have to be realistic mcciness should have been the man i know its only scottish football but he;s been quite a sucess overall /but the thing for me is a mass clearout of players is needed too many have been at the club too long and are in the comfort zone hence like last season only playing for 45 mins whichever half that was :o
I would really like to see every name that was interviewed for the position!Chris Lepkowski tweeted earlier: "Sherwood, McDermott, Hughton, Renard, Zola were among the others spoken to formally or sounded out during recent weeks....some of those talks (certainly with McDermott and Hughton) were merely part of due diligence and never contenders".
Couldn't care less about them. Wouldn't even know who backed him or otherwise.
I'm only interested in Albion.
Irvine was the most negative manager I've seen in recent years at Hillsborough and believe me, we've had some terrible managers in the last 20 odd years, one of the things that he irritatingly kept doing was praising the visiting team before the game, he would say stuff like you have to watch out for their strikers (praise), pace (praise), hight (praise) etc.... he'd go on to say how we'd deal with their threat but not saying anything about how his own side would attack or be positive (maybe he didn't even know how too?)Thanks for taking the time to stop by and share some thoughts with us. The fans of both Sheff Wed and Preston deserve better than they've got currently, so I hope things pick up for you soon.
He was absolutely clueless, and if he received criticism he turn it back to his critics by asking where their coaching badges were etc.
Terry McDermott and Shaun StLedger both saying he's a top coach and a good appointment. Guess they may know more than a lot of us.
They are also not bad when you look at them slowly ;DThe fans of Preston and Sheff Wed seem to disagree with you. You obviously think him getting Sheff Wed relegated and then taking them into the bottom half of League One is somehow worthy of praise?
Thanks for taking the time to stop by and share some thoughts with us. The fans of both Sheff Wed and Preston deserve better than they've got currently, so I hope things pick up for you soon.
Does what I've highlighted in bold above make anyone think of Alan Buckley?
The fans of Preston and Sheff Wed seem to disagree with you. You obviously think him getting Sheff Wed relegated and then taking them into the bottom half of League One is somehow worthy of praise?What have we done?
I think that as an Albion supporter I have been so disappointed and dissalutioned as much as I am tonight. I just cannot believe that after last seasons mistakes, Peace and his board have made this appointment.Never been so even
We need five or more marquee signings to help us get over this shocking appointment. I have just been reading comments from fans on Albion's Facebook page and they are much stronger than anything posted on here so far.No chance now i am afraid.
I am actually crying while typing this so apologies for any spelling mistakes.You are an "Icon" on here with your travelling. Sad to read that mate but understandable.
When I come down to games its not only for the football, its to see and meet up with my Dad who's 87( season ticket holder ) and my sister ( season ticket holder ). I will be calling the club on Monday to see if I can get a refund as I will not be travelling down to see this. My dad actually gave me the money for the ticket and I will be working overtime in my poo job to give him his money back if the club wont refund me.
I do not take this decision lightly as my dad, bless him, doesn't have long to go but this is the last f***ing straw. I'll be hard pressed to keep my cool when I do call them on Monday but enough is enough. When I first came to this forum, I posted a really long post about lack of ambition shown by the club and have finally been vindicated.
I DEFY ANYONE TO MAKE A CASE ( NOT FOR IRVINE ) BUT FOR THE CLUB IN THIS WHOLE F***NG FIASCO.
This has finally killed my life long love of WBA. My kids and wife deserve better of me than disappearing for a whole weekend every 2 weeks.
F*** PEACE AND HIS CROANIES. I've had it with the lot of them.
The fans of Preston and Sheff Wed seem to disagree with you. You obviously think him getting Sheff Wed relegated and then taking them into the bottom half of League One is somehow worthy of praise?
Someone's already left a banner up the ground. First of many?
Are my thoughts obvious? You must be psychic. I just said his stats are not so bad.If you speed read Irvins stats whilst p1ssed then they are not too bad.
I am actually crying while typing this so apologies for any spelling mistakes.I always defended Peace, I now can't , really hope you enjoy the time with your family, life is to short for this rubbish!
When I come down to games its not only for the football, its to see and meet up with my Dad who's 87( season ticket holder ) and my sister ( season ticket holder ). I will be calling the club on Monday to see if I can get a refund as I will not be travelling down to see this. My dad actually gave me the money for the ticket and I will be working overtime in my poo job to give him his money back if the club wont refund me.
I do not take this decision lightly as my dad, bless him, doesn't have long to go but this is the last f***ing straw. I'll be hard pressed to keep my cool when I do call them on Monday but enough is enough. When I first came to this forum, I posted a really long post about lack of ambition shown by the club and have finally been vindicated.
I DEFY ANYONE TO MAKE A CASE ( NOT FOR IRVINE ) BUT FOR THE CLUB IN THIS WHOLE F***NG FIASCO.
This has finally killed my life long love of WBA. My kids and wife deserve better of me than disappearing for a whole weekend every 2 weeks.
F*** PEACE AND HIS CROANIES. I've had it with the lot of them.
I am actually crying while typing this so apologies for any spelling mistakes.
When I come down to games its not only for the football, its to see and meet up with my Dad who's 87( season ticket holder ) and my sister ( season ticket holder ). I will be calling the club on Monday to see if I can get a refund as I will not be travelling down to see this. My dad actually gave me the money for the ticket and I will be working overtime in my poo job to give him his money back if the club wont refund me.
I do not take this decision lightly as my dad, bless him, doesn't have long to go but this is the last f***ing straw. I'll be hard pressed to keep my cool when I do call them on Monday but enough is enough. When I first came to this forum, I posted a really long post about lack of ambition shown by the club and have finally been vindicated.
I DEFY ANYONE TO MAKE A CASE ( NOT FOR IRVINE ) BUT FOR THE CLUB IN THIS WHOLE F***NG FIASCO.
This has finally killed my life long love of WBA. My kids and wife deserve better of me than disappearing for a whole weekend every 2 weeks.
F*** PEACE AND HIS CROANIES. I've had it with the lot of them.
I am actually crying while typing this so apologies for any spelling mistakes.
When I come down to games its not only for the football, its to see and meet up with my Dad who's 87( season ticket holder ) and my sister ( season ticket holder ). I will be calling the club on Monday to see if I can get a refund as I will not be travelling down to see this. My dad actually gave me the money for the ticket and I will be working overtime in my poo job to give him his money back if the club wont refund me.
I do not take this decision lightly as my dad, bless him, doesn't have long to go but this is the last f***ing straw. I'll be hard pressed to keep my cool when I do call them on Monday but enough is enough. When I first came to this forum, I posted a really long post about lack of ambition shown by the club and have finally been vindicated.
I DEFY ANYONE TO MAKE A CASE ( NOT FOR IRVINE ) BUT FOR THE CLUB IN THIS WHOLE F***NG FIASCO.
This has finally killed my life long love of WBA. My kids and wife deserve better of me than disappearing for a whole weekend every 2 weeks.
F*** PEACE AND HIS CROANIES. I've had it with the lot of them.
Bet Irvine feels like he's won the lottery! Jeremy Peace really can do just what he likes. 16k season ticket renewals in the bag then he does this!!!
Pinstripes next on his agenda.
Mexican waves at the first match of the season anyone?
Some got refunds after Pepe Mel was sacked. If they don't refund those who request it after them appointing Irvine, I hope someone tests the water in court, if necessary, on the grounds of the Chairman's "lessons learned" propaganda being misrepresentation.
And how the dingles and b6 scumbags will love this!
I'm clever enough to know its a business , I know it's not "our club" anymore, regardless of views on him,peace has (up to now) done ok by. The club....but my god what a stupid idiotic thing to do ?
I don't care if we get bargain players (in fact I'm quite proud) and I'm ok with new pinstripes but Alan bloody irvine?, is it not like asking stevie wonder to drive you home?
I really ain't happy
Wasn't there a lot of talk after RdM that the next coach had to have experience coaching at the top level? And now this? What a joke this appointment is, in particular it is a complete slap in the face of the fans after the firing of Pepe Mel. This appointment isn't even scraping the bottom of the barrel, it's scraping the dregs of the barrel.
I agree with those that say that it looks like JP is winding the club down for a fire sale.
We need five or more marquee signings to help us get over this shocking appointment. I have just been reading comments from fans on Albion's Facebook page and they are much stronger than anything posted on here so far.
It will unite the players though?
Each and everyone will shout "WHO"
:D
3 hours later & I'm still dumbfounded.
I seriously cannot believe what we have done here.
If you asked every Albion fan if they are happy with this appointment I'm pretty sure 99.9% would say "Hell no"
Peace must have knew this reaction would be coming as well, as clever as he is he's dropped a right b**l**K here.
Quote from Terry Burton on Express & Star
“But, following a detailed recruitment process, we decided Alan and the team around him are best suited to tackle the challenges we face in the Barclays Premier League"
Complete lies, everyone knows we didn't want to pay the wages for Sherwood's back room staff! We are feint treated like fools!
WBA you are a joke...!!!
Exactly! How can a man who has never coached in the Premier League be 'best suited' to manage us. ???
If anybody knows him can somebody check on Jack Russell , I'm worried i haven't read "dour Scot " yet :) :-[Genuinely worried he might've topped himself
Firstly, the idea of a head coach being appointed is strange. Someone has to be responsible for player discipline and this is a managers job so hopefully someone at the club is in place to do that.
my main worry is attracting players. We need at least 12 players for the coming season and I had hoped that a high (ish) profile would naturally attract some players but now fear that this won't happen. Whatever people say managers attract players and he won't even have a network of top class players to call on.
a desperate time for the football club
Genuinely worried he might've topped himself
He's not been online since 3.05 !
Might involve white smoke.
He's probably drowing his sorrows somewhere. Just as long as he's not drowning himself!!!
It'd be interesting to read the thoughts of Firey Moose!! Has he been banned from this forum?Hope not! Be like banning the Marx Bros!
I must admit that this is a very uninspiring appointment.
But, as the season hasn't actually started yet, shouldn't we give the man a chance?
NO
What exactly were we expecting....., no top manager will work within the boundaries set by Peace so we were always going to be left with someone non-descrip like Irvine.
Premiership experience
Sherwood obviously demanded too much for his assistants, however half the people on here we're dreading him coming. He also has very little management experience so what exactly makes him a better bet anyway. Yes, he did ok at spurs for five months, but they were already a decent team.
Sherwoods team were never going to be as cheap as the chuckle brothers kiely and downing! You have to pay for quality after al
Let's just see what happens, there are no guarantees with any manager, but we ay done so bad over the years with relatively unknown managers so at least cut him some slack.
Why? He has no right to be Albion manager
As for attracting players, yes a well known manager may attract some, BUT this is little old albion who pay quite low wages,...is having Irvine as coach really going to put players off? I don't think so, it'll be more down to the wages being paid.
Yes they are going to be drawn to us like flies to poo, we couldn't even afford a decent back room staff but had to recycle ex wolves players!!
But, it's all about opinions, I just think its unfair to judge someone without a ball being kicked in anger.
We were told the requirements would be premier experience, we have a right to be angry
I will say, i don't think people should protest straight away, let him prove himself, if he doesn't then show what you're made of. I like the idea of a flurry of seasons tickets being handed back in and 1000a of empty seats to send a message though. Vote with your feet first, vocal protests laterGreat point , i think Irvine , JP and Burton should be given a chance first.......if it fails fair enough protest to high heaven then.
Many thanks for your views.
Great point , i think Irvine , JP and Burton should be given a chance first.......if it fails fair enough protest to high heaven then.No why on earth should we.
Great point , i think Irvine , JP and Burton should be given a chance first.......if it fails fair enough protest to high heaven then.. A chance my bottom. Not a chance I hell. good bye this site I retire and I will be askingjfor my money back o Monday I won't swear but that's how I feel . Mods please close my account
Great point , i think Irvine , JP and Burton should be given a chance first.......if it fails fair enough protest to high heaven then.Hear, hear
No why on earth should we.So booing from the first day of Irvine being in charge will help will it ? , he has been bought in for reasons JP and Burton believe in.....as i say if it doesn't work out fair enough but i will give it a fair chance.
This is an appointment too far, and it I u fans that need some respect, and something Irvine must earn.
Sorry but I just can't get my head around this appointment.
No why on earth should we.
How are we going to attract better quality players with Irvine as head coach.Strangely the offer of premier league football will attract better players (and higher wages) or are you expecting us to be attracting the likes of Messi?
We could have gone for Jol, Or Zola, coaches with premier league experience who could attract the players we need to improve the squad.
I really think that Peace almost does things like this on purpose to prove that he rules the club and sod what we want.
How are we going to attract better quality players with Irvine as head coach.I tend to think the days of players being attracted to clubs by managers are going , money talks to be honest .
We could have gone for Jol, Or Zola, coaches with premier league experience who could attract the players we need to improve the squad.
I really think that Peace almost does things like this on purpose to prove that he rules the club and sod what we want.
Treating us fans to another year of Premier League football at some of the cheapest prices in the Premier League. Who knows whether Irvine will be successful here but he at least needs to be given a chance now that he has been appointed.
Treating us fans to another year of Premier League football at some of the cheapest prices in the Premier League. Who knows whether Irvine will be successful here but he at least needs to be given a chance now that he has been appointed.Missing the point.
I tend to think the days of players being attracted to clubs by managers are going , money talks to be honest .
I tend to think the days of players being attracted to clubs by managers are going , money talks to be honest .
No complaints with how the club is being run then?In my supporting lifetime, which is about 30 odd years, we are in the best position we have ever been. I did once think I would never see us play top flight football again.
Strangely the offer of premier league football will attract better players (and higher wages) or are you expecting us to be attracting the likes of Messi?
Money talks indeed!Yet we still pulled in Lugano , Sinclair , Anelka , Morgan , Anichebe , Sess........not one of those would be cheap on wages or fees.
As such we are .....!
I am not expecting Messi but players I believe have to respect the head coach and they are more likely to respect a Zola than an unknown coach such as Irvine, did you know where he was working as a coach until today. I didn'tRoy Hodgson was drummed out of Liverpool because he didn't have the respect of the players or fans but worked out well for us and now is England coach. Give him a chance.
Roy Hodgson was drummed out of Liverpool because he didn't have the respect of the players or fans but worked out well for us and now is England coach. Give him a chance.
So booing from the first day of Irvine being in charge will help will it ? , he has been bought in for reasons JP and Burton believe in.....as i say if it doesn't work out fair enough but i will give it a fair chance.Who said anything about booing, I certainly didn't.
Lets see if some of our players improve (Mulumbu for one) under Irvine and his alledged coaching talent.
Yet we still pulled in Lugano , Sinclair , Anelka , Morgan , Anichebe , Sess........not one of those would be cheap on wages or fees.WHAT!!!!
Who said anything about booing, I certainly didn't.
As I said earlier, would be very surprised now if the likes of mule but bother to stick around, Irvine has a very bad reputation among many players and agents, so expect a bit of an exodus
Last season many raved about Rodgers at Liverpool yet people forget he struggled at Watford for a while , left for Reading and got sacked 6 months later before getting a surprise chance at Swansea and the rest we know.
Clearly the fact he followed Martinez and was left with a half decent side shows he could be more successful with better players , maybe if we are lucky the same will happen Irvine.....but he has to be given a fair chance first by all IMO.
Who said anything about booing, I certainly didn't.Yet already a few of his former players have spoken in favour of him , to be fair he won't be dealing with agents. Booing maybe was the wrong word , your previous post was negative towards Irvine when i said he should at least be given a chance.
As I said earlier, would be very surprised now if the likes of mule but bother to stick around, Irvine has a very bad reputation among many players and agents, so expect a bit of an exodus
This is Peaces choice Irvine has got to EARN any respect
Ar but at least he had some decent experience behind him, this guy hasn't even been a first team coach for 3-4 years.Quite agree as i said to you earlier JP and Burton have put themselves in the firing line now , yes Irvine has got to earn respect but he should also be given the CHANCE to earn that respect.
This is Peaces choice Irvine has got to EARN any respect
Quite agree as i said to you earlier JP and Burton have put themselves in the firing line now , yes Irvine has got to earn respect but he should also be given the CHANCE to earn that respect.Bugger and now Italy score.
Fair point, but that doesn't mean we have to start by writing him off and deriding him.I think as fans we deserve, and we're led to believe we would get better than we have.
Bugger and now Italy score.Again i agree with you , the Irvine appointment will either be a disaster or master stroke to be honest.
JP has gone way past the firing line, according to some fans he has lied or at best misled us into thinking we could get better.
Seriously it is beyond the pale and just not in anyway acceptable, and he should have made a better appointment.
And boing boing we are drawing
Bugger and now Italy score.
JP has gone way past the firing line, according to some fans he has lied or at best misled us into thinking we could get better.
Seriously it is beyond the pale and just not in anyway acceptable, and he should have made a better appointment.
And boing boing we are drawing
Again i agree with you , the Irvine appointment will either be a disaster or master stroke to be honest.Appointments always are, but some are more predictable than others, and our last two appointments were not good enough, and now we go for a man with even less experience, beggars belief.
If he'd made a decent appointment England would have our undivided attention right now.
SERIOUSLY this appointment is lousy, don't try and dress it up. If Irvine does well for us I will eat a number of hats for you all no problem.
The BIGGEST part of this is undoubtedly is Peace talking utter pooh - paraphrasing here but
1. I've learned my lesson
2. We need someone with Premiership experience/ someone with quality to operate at this level.
You talk utter rubbish Peace and I will not be happy now until you had gone for good. Along with Pinky and Perky.
God this club is several shades of screwed.
Appointments always are, but some are more predictable than others, and our last two appointments were not good enough, and now we go for a man with even less experience, beggars belief.All i can say is they must have a reason , i know they say about his excellent coaching so i hope to see Morrison , Brunt and especially Mulumbu find the form us Baggies fans know they have shown in the past..
All i can say is they must have a reason , i know they say about his excellent coaching so i hope to see Morrison , Brunt and especially Mulumbu find the form us Baggies fans know they have shown in the past..As I say I wouldn't be surprised to see Mulumbu, Brunt and Morrison, even Foster engineer a move away now.
Fly or die really on this one although i suspect JP knows he can turn to Burton and Downing if the worst happens
As I say I wouldn't be surprised to see Mulumbu, Brunt and Morrison, even Foster engineer a move away now.
Mulumbu was far from happy before this appointment, god knows what he is thinking now.
BTW didn't rate Burtons appointment anyway, think he might be being used a future excuse/shield for any flak heading peace's way
You ever get the idea that Peace might be going down the Vile route, not signing any decent players, and going down the cheap academy route?
That what it smells of to me.
:o this has to be a bad joke peace has to go what the foooook planet is this bloke on and does he give a toss about our club or fans relagation is the only word I can think of
Again i agree with you , the Irvine appointment will either be a disaster or master stroke to be honest.A masterstroke WTF :o
Missing the point.Wigan had NINE years in the PL, they still struggled to regularly pick up already good players. time in this league means nothing, mate..
We should not be on a wing and a prayer.
As a club starting our fifth successive season in the top-flight we should be able to attract someone better.
The problem is that the structure of the club is now wrong.
It might have worked in the past but it is obviously now deterring anyone from joining us.
We need a 'manager', not a head coach.
Some of the early names mentioned, Jol Malkay Hughton who I wouldn't have wanted I would take now over this
In my supporting lifetime, which is about 30 odd years, we are in the best position we have ever been. I did once think I would never see us play top flight football again.
i am in the middle of a nightmare , i am sure i will wake up soon and find out that a proper manager with premiership experience has got the job, cannot believe JP has left Downing on the staff never mind appointing an academy coach from another club with no worthwhile senior management experience to join him
I hope and pray i hold my hands up at the end of the season and say you were right , but i suspect i along with thousands of other baggies will be saying i told you so.
never in the 60 years i have supported this club, have i witnessed such a farce regarding the managers job, my mate did not renew his season ticket for next season , i reckon he must have known something i did 'n't
So what's Irvine's philosophy?
The Scot was given plenty of money to develop the squad but wasted it on players such as Neal Trotman and Richard Chaplow. In 2009 Preston had the chance to sign Charlie Adam but Irvine chose to sign VeliÄe Å umulikoski instead. (The 'Macedonian Gerrard' in case you didn't know). Adam went on to score 16 goals and almost on his own clinched promotion for Blackpool. Å umulikoski on the other hand played just 15 games for North End.
In 2011 Preston were relegated from the Championship and with the money that Irvine had wasted it was him who had started the ball rolling.
He also took Sheffield Wednesday down in 2010 and despite being given a big budget again by new owner Milan Mandaric he failed to build a side capable of challenging at the top of League One and was sacked with The Owls in 15th place.
http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/06/14/jm-west-brom-have-made-a-huge-mistake-in-appointing-alan-irvine/? (http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/06/14/jm-west-brom-have-made-a-huge-mistake-in-appointing-alan-irvine/?)
At the end of the day i know most fans want an enigmatic coach who excites us not just on the pitch but in the media, however i believe this to be a very good appointment, his only criticisms for his former jobs are that he spent his money incorrectly and played "boring" football, at the albion he will not be spending our money and we probably have most if not all of our targets set up already by burton and company. And in terms of style of play i'd just be happy to watch us win a few games this season especially at home which was a deflating (to say the least) place to be last season. Irvine is a fantastic coach who will unite the players which is what we truly need and get the most out of the youngsters such as thorne and the under performers such as morrison who must will be dying to work with somebody on their wavelength after the mel fiasco. lest not forget that the bulk of this squad got us eight a year ago and a few shrewd addditions (irvine being one of them) could take us back there. This should be seen as Burtons choice and we should have no reason to distrust him, Peace may be a fool but I don't think anyone should believe he has a major say in who is a good or bad coach when a man of burtons experience is in the fold
At the end of the day i know most fans want an enigmatic coach who excites us not just on the pitch but in the media, however i believe this to be a very good appointment, his only criticisms for his former jobs are that he spent his money incorrectly and played "boring" football, at the albion he will not be spending our money and we probably have most if not all of our targets set up already by burton and company. And in terms of style of play i'd just be happy to watch us win a few games this season especially at home which was a deflating (to say the least) place to be last season. Irvine is a fantastic coach who will unite the players which is what we truly need and get the most out of the youngsters such as thorne and the under performers such as morrison who must will be dying to work with somebody on their wavelength after the mel fiasco. lest not forget that the bulk of this squad got us eight a year ago and a few shrewd addditions (irvine being one of them) could take us back there. This should be seen as Burtons choice and we should have no reason to distrust him, Peace may be a fool but I don't think anyone should believe he has a major say in who is a good or bad coach when a man of burtons experience is in the fold
I'm Albion. Blue and white, or white and blue, through and through. Have been since before I was born, will be as long as my name is remembered. I love this club, good and bad, win or lose.My sentiments exactly, have been going for 60 years, and not about to stop now, been disappointed more times by poor players and managers than I care to remember but outside of family this club is the love of my life, and neither JP or Alan Irvine or any of our underperforming players will turn me away from something that I love. Whatever your present feelings are, they will be short lived if we get some decent players and results. Don't give up, this is all part and parcel of supporting the Albion.
Good luck Alan, not my choice but the choice none the less. Do your best mate and I will support you. That is the contract, simple.
I'll be there next season. As will my kids. It's a family thing and always will be. They grew up in much worse times, with worse managers and far worse players. And still they believe.
My club, right or wrong. Our club, right or wrong.
Come on you Baggies.
After my initial suicidal thoughts and gut reaction to what appears to be another piece of dogshit from Peace. I must say that I feel really sorry for Andy Irvine. Surely he must be reading these forums and be wandering what the he'll he is letting himself in for. It's not his fault we have been duped and lied to. We need to spare our condemnation for the bald ahole and support our new HC. Up yours Peace, come on Andy, prove us all wrong and show us what you can do.
(Still gobsmacked)
Just got up hoping that I had had a bad dream.Just remembered too - still feel sick by this appointment and will ruin my day again.
Unfortunately it isn't.
Why the hell has it taken 5 weeks to appoint Alan Irvine?
Ok I hear you say 'lets give the guy a chance' but I think even the most studious of us can see that this appointment will end in tears.
We will get approx. £100m into the coffers this year and it was beyond Peace to release the purse strings a pay a few more shilling to get their first choice candidate on board
Disgraceful.
The Hawthornes could be a vey toxic place next season
Listening to Talksport and last on the agenda was AI appointment at WBA . The words used by the journalist were "cheap option" "underwhelming" and "fearful for WBA next season". He was a reasoned journalist (not really a contradiction in terms) but had nothing positive to say about the appointment. He believed Sherwwod had been offered job Thursday but after 3 days of talks it broke down on Saturday afternoon and then "2minutes" later we wheel out Alan Irvine- so what Terry Burton is saying is a load do codswallop.
After my initial suicidal thoughts and gut reaction to what appears to be another piece of dogs*** from Peace. I must say that I feel really sorry for Andy Irvine. Surely he must be reading these forums and be wandering what the he'll he is letting himself in for. It's not his fault we have been duped and lied to. We need to spare our condemnation for the bald a**** and support our new HC. Up yours Peace, come on Andy, prove us all wrong and show us what you can do.
(Still gobsmacked)
Would somebody please try and get hold of Jack Russell. Poor bloke.He did post yesterday evening - you must have missed it.
A mate if mine has a theory that Ferdinand's contract was complicated with Spurs and we couldn't sort it out so we have appointed Irvine as a stop gap until the contract issue is sorted out before we appoint Sherwood. Reckons the 12 month rolling contract proves this and he'll be gone in 3.
A mate if mine has a theory that Ferdinand's contract was complicated with Spurs and we couldn't sort it out so we have appointed Irvine as a stop gap until the contract issue is sorted out before we appoint Sherwood. Reckons the 12 month rolling contract proves this and he'll be gone in 3.
After my initial suicidal thoughts and gut reaction to what appears to be another piece of dogs*** from Peace. I must say that I feel really sorry for Andy Irvine. Surely he must be reading these forums and be wandering what the he'll he is letting himself in for. It's not his fault we have been duped and lied to. We need to spare our condemnation for the bald a**** and support our new HC. Up yours Peace, come on Andy, prove us all wrong and show us what you can do.
(Still gobsmacked)
A mate if mine has a theory that Ferdinand's contract was complicated with Spurs and we couldn't sort it out so we have appointed Irvine as a stop gap until the contract issue is sorted out before we appoint Sherwood. Reckons the 12 month rolling contract proves this and he'll be gone in 3.Wishful thinking. This appointment is a f#ck up of biblical proportions that takes us back to some of the disasters in the late 80's/early 90's.
He's been an academy coach for years so he could switch to that after three months if the theory is true. The fans were already claiming it was a farce waiting a couple of extra days, maybe the appointment of Irvine just gets a name in instead of really ballsing up over another months wait over Ferdinand.
I'm running out of straws to clutch at.
:'( We will be the "whipping boys" of the Premiership. 20th spot guaranteed.
We won't be able to keep hold of Foster, Mulumbu, Olsson, Sess,and Yacob....what a ballsup of an appointment.
Who the hell is going to sign for us with an unknown Premiership coach.
WTF is happening at our club???
Just out of interest is there anybody happy with the apointment?
WBAFCofficial @WBAFCofficial · 4m
Irvine will complete his move to The Hawthorns once he has officially signed off from his current role as Everton’s academy manager 2/3
his only criticisms for his former jobs are that he spent his money incorrectly and played "boring" football
A mate if mine has a theory that Ferdinand's contract was complicated with Spurs and we couldn't sort it out so we have appointed Irvine as a stop gap until the contract issue is sorted out before we appoint Sherwood. Reckons the 12 month rolling contract proves this and he'll be gone in 3.
its going to be a new look management
I have found reading this forum since the appointment quite interesting. It would appear nobody is happy with the appointment but peoples responses go from giving him a chance, to those who seem to be desperate to organise protests, banners, etc.
Personally if you wish to make a stand then to me that would to ask for Season Ticket refunds, Greenock Baggies post was quite touching as there is somebody who travels thousands of miles to watch his team (and i know there are load of others who do the same) and this appointment has pushed him too far so he is wanting a refund, hope he changes his mind but if not fair play to him for making his personal stand, no agenda just personal action.
I think the club have got it wrong on a few occasions, i think its poor form to let the news break when the whole country is focusing on the England match, they must of known what the news would be greeted like. Also i think the last 12-18 months wrong appointments have been made, i still dont understand the Clarke was a failure thing, yes we were struggling and it was boring, but he also got us our highest ever Prem finish and we werent in the relegation Zone when he left, whatever factors, built on the back of Roys team, lucky with Lukaku, etc the facts stay the same so on that basis, overall i would say Clarke was a successful appointment, previous managers before him the last 10 years also achieved certain milestones so to say constant wrong appointments is harsh.
Garlick and McDonough it would seem were mistakes, one has now gone, the other has been moved elsewhere and we have brought in somebody who has been involved with football all his life and is well respected, on paper that would seem we have learnt from the mistakes, of course it could go wrong but surely worth giving him a chance? Same applies to Alan Irvine, Pepe Mel was a strange one, ultimately he kept us up and that was his remit, however it would it wasnt down to him, things werent right and he was sacked at earliest opportunity and we have looked at another angle in Irvine.
Like i think 99.9% of Albion fans, Irvine wouldnt of been my first choice, probably wouldnt of even made my top 10 but he is here now. JP and Burton must of seen something and got a plan that they see with him and can work together, we tried the older 'proven' types last year and it got us nowhere so it would seem we are targeting the young hungry players, ideally from our own academy, the academy has to serve a purpose and if young players can see a route to the first team, maybe they wont clear off to Liverpool aged 14, etc. Also from what we know there were some bad eggs in the dressing room last year, perhaps in the players who have left some of those bad eggs have gone and new younger hungrier players can come in and not be part of the old 'clique' its a new start.
The comments from Preston and Sheffield Wednesday fans arent great towards Irvine, but maybe with Burton taking care of the day to day rubbish, ie - player disputes, contracts, etc then Irvine can focus on the coaching which would appear is his main attribute, we have 4 x coaches now it would seem (that in itself could be a bit confusing) but if Irvine comes in, lets the players know who is boss, it may just work, we are building a new team which needs to be coached, Irvine can certainly do that, its whether his managerial skills are upto scratch.
I have major reservations about the appointment but now he is here, its going to be a new look management, a new look team, (even a new look kit!) so i want to try and look forward to seeing that with hungry players, not over paid premadonnas, and see what happens before writing us off, if it goes t*ts up then JP has to face all the flak that comes his.
One final thing, there seems to be this obsession that we are trying to things on the cheap, we want to be in the championship (he didnt actually say that), in what way would that benefit JP or anybody at all? JP is trying to buy shares at £3k a pop i believe? If we go down we lose millions and millions in value off the club, our income reduces greatly, and after incurring 5 years of premiership income and outgoings, there is no way any sane person would actual want us to go down as a business, let alone the bloke who runs it! I have backed JP but i think this time he really has put his neck on the line but lets see what happens, we could be an all out entertaining side doing well, or we could be bottom without a point but surely give people a chance, especially when probably 8 times out of 10 they have got it right in the past.
The notion that the owner of a successful, multi-million-pound business cares less about it than its customers is laughable. We may be bitterly disappointed if the club are relegated, but none of us are going to lose millions of pounds because of it.
Unless someone can give a remotely plausible reason why JP would want to destroy his largest asset, we must assume that he simply thinks Alan Irvine is the best man available for the position. It seems unreasonable to hang them both in effigy before Irvine has done anything.
Sadly we're stuck with him ffs. :-X Protesting will do jack sh#t .better to try and fail than not to try at all!!!
Must admit 79, I've got a lot of empathy with your argument. I think it's fair to say that Alan Irvine has a totally different brief with us than he did with SW or PNE, he will be a component part of a coaching and tactical team, & as you say, he won't have to persue transfer targets.
I have to say, it's not an appointment that inspires me, & I do have some reservations about his tactical nouse, but I can see that it's a structure that could work.
Personally, I think the alternative appointment would have been an absolute car crash, Tim Sherwood would have wanted it his way or no way, in my opinion, that's what swayed it in the end.
Just out of interest is there anybody happy with the apointment?
Well said Quakes couldn't agree more. Anybody suggesting he's milking a cash cow and trying to take us down needs their head looking at, you can't do both. Here's to miracles happening.
And agree with other posters that although on paper Sherwood looks better, that appointment could have torn the club apart - moan all you like about how Peace didn't want to pay top dollar for him and his team, but nobody should be held ransom at their own business. You give someone like Sherwood an inch and he'll take a mile.
I wouldn't say I was happy by any stretch of the imagination but I'm also not avoiding the medicine cabinet like many on here, Irvine is a highly respected coach within the game, anyone would think we've employed Kim Jong-il for gods sake, here's a novel idea, how about we give the guy a chance (crouch's back down behind the sofa).All for giving the guy a chance but there must be dozens of 'highly respected' coaches in the land who are not suited to being No.1 at a premier league club. I said it above, he may be 'head coach' but there are a lot of management skills needed in being No 1 at a club.....the evidence for Irvine being a good choice is very very hard to find.
Isn't that what you want from a leader? Somebody to come in and instill a bit of confidence around the place and show all and sundry whose boss?.
Not saying that's what Sherwood would have done but that's what you want
In my experience, the best leaders have an ability to listen, not sure the word's in Sherwood's vocabulary.
I'm not trying to justify the Irvine appointment, & by choice I'd have had neither, but with Sherwood, the car crash would have happened, it would just have been a matter of when.
In my experience, the best leaders have an ability to listen, not sure the word's in Sherwood's vocabulary.Not so much a car crash with Irvine................more like a 20 ton truck ran into it whilst parked out side your house 10 minutes before you have to go out!!!
I'm not trying to justify the Irvine appointment, & by choice I'd have had neither, but with Sherwood, the car crash would have happened, it would just have been a matter of when.
In my experience, the best leaders have an ability to listen, not sure the word's in Sherwood's vocabulary.With Sherwood the car crash might have happened. On the other hand he may go on to have a successful managerial career - we just don't know, but it would have been interesting to find out and would have put bums on seats at least for a while. We probably would have had more chance of attracting players and raising the profile of the club a bit also.
I'm not trying to justify the Irvine appointment, & by choice I'd have had neither, but with Sherwood, the car crash would have happened, it would just have been a matter of when.
In my experience, the best leaders have an ability to listen, not sure the word's in Sherwood's vocabulary.
I'm not trying to justify the Irvine appointment, & by choice I'd have had neither, but with Sherwood, the car crash would have happened, it would just have been a matter of when.
All for giving the guy a chance but there must be dozens of 'highly respected' coaches in the land who are not suited to being No.1 at a premier league club. I said it above, he may be 'head coach' but there are a lot of management skills needed in being No 1 at a club.....the evidence for Irvine being a good choice is very very hard to find.
I wouldn't say I was happy by any stretch of the imagination but I'm also not avoiding the medicine cabinet like many on here, Irvine is a highly respected coach within the game, anyone would think we've employed Kim Jong-il for gods sake, here's a novel idea, how about we give the guy a chance (crouch's back down behind the sofa).
I'll give anyone a chance but this is what you get when you force a pre-installed backroom on someone. If we were going into our first season in the Prem then I could maybe understand it more and probably accept it but we're an 'established' middle to lower team in the top division at the moment and having just endured a nightmare season on and off the pitch followed by what are now empty words/ bullshite from our leader it makes it harder to swallow. I have no issue with Irvine himself as all he did was apply for the job and has been extremely fortunate to get it, the issue is with those that have appointed him showing a lack of ambition and doing it on a shoestring. I hope I have to eat all my words next Summer but I fear this season we're going down and between Christmas and start of the 2015-2016 season we will be back in this position looking for another fall guy.
Quite agree Oldbury, and having had a couple of poor seasons wiith Downing in the backroom staff, the one common denominator, why oh why oh why has he been allowed to stay, nothing has changed, and nothing learnt.A couple of poor seasons which included our highest ever Premier League position? It is funny how easy history is rewritten.
I'll give anyone a chance but this is what you get when you force a pre-installed backroom on someone. If we were going into our first season in the Prem then I could maybe understand it more and probably accept it but we're an 'established' middle to lower team in the top division at the moment and having just endured a nightmare season on and off the pitch followed by what are now empty words/ bullshite from our leader it makes it harder to swallow. I have no issue with Irvine himself as all he did was apply for the job and has been extremely fortunate to get it, the issue is with those that have appointed him showing a lack of ambition and doing it on a shoestring. I hope I have to eat all my words next Summer but I fear this season we're going down and between Christmas and start of the 2015-2016 season we will be back in this position looking for another fall guy.
I bet even Alan Irvine woke up this morning and had to pinch himself.
With any luck he'll read these pages and withdraw his application
How can he withdraw his application when he didn't even apply in the first place ?
So Jeremy walked down Preston high st bumped into Hazel and offered him the job? ::)I think Albion approached him mate.......
To be truthful I aint in the mood today
Irvine is to blame as much as the rest, he dont have to say yes to the job does he
Through all the darkness and tears, there can be light and laughter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00JhUADQCCY
Through all the darkness and tears, there can be light and laughter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00JhUADQCCY
Through all the darkness and tears, there can be light and laughter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00JhUADQCCY
“I’ll work however many hours it takes to make things work.â€
Hello Dingle ! Funny though fair play !
If there is any doubt, I am an AlbionFan of 60 years devoted loyalty. Owners, Directors, Players et al, come and go, but AlbionFans are forever whether we like it or not at this time.
that's why we'll have a white top with nearly invisible pinstripes so we'll look like preston appoint their useless ex manager and get sponsored by the comedy channel on sky . priceless . nevermind getting relegated to the championship division one here we come .
If there is any doubt, I am an AlbionFan of 60 years devoted loyalty. Owners, Directors, Players et al, come and go, but AlbionFans are forever whether we like it or not at this time.
Been away all weekend and only just heard this. Got to be the worst decision in the last 10 years. He'll be sacked at Christmas. The players will have no respect for him whatsoever, just like the fans.
I dread to think what the ground will be like should we lose our first few games.
Irvine is to blame as much as the rest, he dont have to say yes to the job does heThat has to go down as one of the daftest posts I've seen.
There is no doubting that the guy is a top coach. People within the game speak highly of his methods.
That’s the only positive spin I can put on it at the moment.
Personally I think we are back to a point where we are closest to when our footballing model was most succesful (under Roy). A "players" coach who hopefully can bring back harmony to the dressing room and who is prepared to work within the director of football model. Because he may be perceived to have failed at some other clubs does not mean that he will automatically fail here as we employ a different structure. Big characters are not required at the Hawthorns.
No they don't speak highly oif him at all, not that I know
Personally I think we are back to a point where we are closest to when our footballing model was most succesful (under Roy). A "players" coach who hopefully can bring back harmony to the dressing room and who is prepared to work within the director of football model. Because he may be perceived to have failed at some other clubs does not mean that he will automatically fail here as we employ a different structure. Big characters are not required at the Hawthorns.
Really? I've seen several players and a coach say he is a top coach just this morning..
Try asking Billy Jones, Richard Chaplow, Craig Beattie, what they thought of him and his sidekick, just to name a few
Try asking Billy Jones, Richard Chaplow, Craig Beattie, what they thought of him and his sidekick, just to name a few
Just as a matter of interest, what would Alan Irvine have to achieve next season, for the appointment to be considered a success?
If there is any doubt, I am an AlbionFan of 60 years devoted loyalty. Owners, Directors, Players et al, come and go, but AlbionFans are forever whether we like it or not at this time.
Strangely not that annoyed about this. I think largely because Sherwood was so clearly a terrible option, virtually any other option was preferable.
I don't think he'll be a complete disaster here anyway. Reminds me of when Bolton got Megson, much to the anger of their fans, and they never accepted him there, though he did alright league table wise.
I'm huessing there's something more to it than just being a cheap option too. The club could easily have got someone like McInnes who'd have been a reasonably popular choice, if that was the sole intention.
After his "the buck stops with me" speech and his promise to put things right Peace has gone and stuck his fingers up at the lot of us with this appointment!Let's hope Peace keeps his word with the buck stops with me quote and falls on his sword when it all goes t*t's up.
Perhaps Father Ted Irvine is a good coach who can improve players but does he have the tactical awareness to out-think other coaches? A look at his record says no!
Will he have the presence in the Albion dressing room to command respect from a bunch of players that have already shown that together they are capable of undermining coaches and getting them the sack. We needed someone with a bit of bottle to sort out the cliques we are plagued with!
I would advise anyone with shares to sell them to Peace because they wont be worth the paper they are written on at this rate!
I wonder if Billy Jones saw the writing on the wall?
I was disgusted and really let down with Thornes recent comments but cant really argue against hes move to put in a transfer request, Playing for Derby will be alot more appealing than us next season i imagine.
Just as a matter of interest, what would Alan Irvine have to achieve next season, for the appointment to be considered a success?
It's just a bloody, bloody mess.
I acknowledge what JP has done in terms of building the club up from when he took over, but I think as a leader he's clearly peaked and needs to GO NOW.
Peace is now the problem AND PREVENTING THIS CLUB FROM MAKING FURTHER PROGRESS.
He is a cut of the same cloth as Roy Hodgson. He will aim to get us incredibly organised and our patterns of play will be rigid and structured. There is very little room for attacking maneuver or flexibility. A large number of fans from both Preston and Sheffield Wednesday have referred to his football as boring, mind numbing so I would imagine we'll be opting for a defensive approach maybe relying on our counter attacking to get us points. I really cannot see us being adventurous and taking the game to our opponents and I would certainly say we'll see a lot of long balls.
I was talking to some of my Wednesday supporting mates earlier about him and they referred to him as a game of chess - players unsure where to go just incase they leave their rigid structure. He's very studious when it comes to detail but appears to get too bogged down in what the opposition are likely to do and therefore forgets what his own side should be doing.
I'm not expecting samba football, just defensive organsiation, boring football and 16,000 incredibly frustrated supporters who appear to have been sold down a river with this appointment.
Who in their right mind will sign for us now?At the moment unless we surpass ourselves in the transfer market this summer ( which is almost impossible now on many grounds) I cannot see anything bar relegation. Even if we do have a better kitty than usual I cannot see Irvine attracting the right players or signing the right players. I suspect that if we are in the bottom three in November and playing dross Irvine will be on his way. I just hope Peace lines some up first this time before he is sacked - undoubtedly there will be some good candidates about by then.
I cannot see us attracting anyone decent. It'll be like a pub team.
While initially also perplexed at the decision, the more I think about it the more I think it might work out for us.
Apparently he is by all means an excellent coach.
He has a clear interest in nurturing / bringing through young talent.
He must have convinced the board that he is the right man for the job, given that they would surely be aware that his appointment would be met with this level of cynicism, yet they chose to appoint him anyway. Like others have said, JP nor any of the other board members benefit financially or otherwise from us failing. He must have impressed massively.
He will know that he has been given a massive opportunity here, with his first interview (working all the hours required, paraphrased) indicating that he feels endebted and will bust his b#lls to make it work.
We have a better structure in place now, compared to last year, in so much that Irvine will seek regular counsel not with Garlick but with Burton, a man who should command our respect if only on the basis that he was valued so highly by Roy Hodgson.
And at the very least, with expectation levels so low, all he can do is overachieve.
While initially also perplexed at the decision, the more I think about it the more I think it might work out for us.
Apparently he is by all means an excellent coach.
He has a clear interest in nurturing / bringing through young talent.
He must have convinced the board that he is the right man for the job, given that they would surely be aware that his appointment would be met with this level of cynicism, yet they chose to appoint him anyway. Like others have said, JP nor any of the other board members benefit financially or otherwise from us failing. He must have impressed massively.
He will know that he has been given a massive opportunity here, with his first interview (working all the hours required, paraphrased) indicating that he feels endebted and will bust his b#lls to make it work.
We have a better structure in place now, compared to last year, in so much that Irvine will seek regular counsel not with Garlick but with Burton, a man who should command our respect if only on the basis that he was valued so highly by Roy Hodgson.
And at the very least, with expectation levels so low, all he can do is overachieve.
Absolutely horrified by the appointment - been sitting reading through each page of this thread.
People are going to try and put any sort of positive on this, but there are non. Absolutely nothing. The facts are that this was a cheap appointment in a situation where our chairman yet again is unwilling to back down after only a few weeks back apparently seeing the light.
There are no positives to take from this and I can only hope that the fans spit venom at the first opportunity - I can't even imagine the response he's going to get when introduced at our first home game. Irvine will be gone within 5 games, I'm absolutely sure of it.
This is a sickening appointment and signals the end of my close association of Albion, I will no longer be travelling across the country, paying good money to go and watch a club run by a cheap, stubborn chairman.
Alan Irvine - I hope it goes absolutely tits up for you, not because I particular dislike you, but because this club needs a serious shock (apparently last year wasn't enough). You are going to feel the wrath of thousands of angry fans, I don't think there has ever been more pressure on a manager before their first game. You will crumble, we will crumble and hopefully Peace will crumble.
So, as an Albion fan you want the club to fail so that you can tell us 'I told you so'........... hmmm alternative view I guess.
As for there being no positives, well I'm sure I've read a few posted on here today but then again, yourself & many others seem to have made up your minds before the guy has pulled on a tracksuit.
Dear Mr Irvine.
According to local media you have not yet finalised your release from your current job at Everton. If have taken the time to check the local press and social media, you will see that you are not wanted by the overwhelming majority of WBA fans, myself included.
I have read that you are delighted at being offered the job. I am sure your are. But we are not. Withdraw your application and stay away from our club.
Peace may want you but we do not.
academy@evertonfc.com Just sent
Dear Mr Irvine.from just down the N332 i doff my cap sir :)
According to local media you have not yet finalised your release from your current job at Everton. If have taken the time to check the local press and social media, you will see that you are not wanted by the overwhelming majority of WBA fans, myself included.
I have read that you are delighted at being offered the job. I am sure your are. But we are not. Withdraw your application and stay away from our club.
Peace may want you but we do not.
academy@evertonfc.com Just sent
It's not a case of truly wanting us to fail, it's more a realisation that is the direction we are heading.
You know what, Irvine is doomed to failure.....why?
Not because he is a bad coach....unlike most on here I'm prepared to give him a chance
He'll fail because of all the doom merchants on here who are not prepared to even let the season start before turning against the club.
This is no way to support the team, whether you agree with Peace or not...we support West Bromwich Albion.
We may not agree with the decision but unless anybody fancies buying Peace out and making the decisions, this is what we have.
It may not work out but the least we can do is support the team and do our bit to make it work.
Peace is not going anywhere so anybody who is not prepared to support the team may as well stay at home....we don't need the negativity.
We are supporters......thick or thin.
We have just finished what can only be described as an awful season.I do actually agree with many posts, it is a very underwhelming appointment.
Supporters simply wanted the season to come to an end so we could look forward.
The club had an opportunity to give us renewed hope.
They have failed miserably.
Having saved money by appointing a second class coach, will Peace restore our faith by giving us 4 or 5 top quality signings. I know what I think the answer will be.
Whilst I remain a fan, I have lost all hope.
Do you have a link to the quotes of Billy Jones, Richard Chaplow, & Craig Beattie please.As several people keep repeating it, I'm looking forward to someone posting all the quotes that say what a great coach Irvine is. After all, Preston and Sheff Wed did so well under him.....
Dear Mr Irvine.Just to balance it out ;)
According to local media you have not yet finalised your release from your current job at Everton. If have taken the time to check the local press and social media, you will see that you are not wanted by the overwhelming majority of WBA fans, myself included.
I have read that you are delighted at being offered the job. I am sure your are. But we are not. Withdraw your application and stay away from our club.
Peace may want you but we do not.
academy@evertonfc.com Just sent
But the venom shown by some fans is getting ridiculous.Fans need and deserve to be respected by the club they support. If that doesn't happen, things unravel. Therefore, given the contempt with which Albion fans have been treated for some time in a number of respects, "show some support" doesn't really cut it anymore as far as the present regime is concerned. They have taken the club away from the fans, so can have no complaints at all for the fans going away from them.
All I'm saying is give it a chance and show some support.
Dear Mr IrvineWouldn't it have been more accurate to say ".....speaking for the overwhelming majority of Albion fans....."?
Please note that whilst speaking for the majority of Albion fans on this forum, alicantebaggie does not speak for myself & a few others.
Try asking Billy Jones, Richard Chaplow, Craig Beattie, what they thought of him and his sidekick, just to name a few
As several people keep repeating it, I'm looking forward to someone posting all the quotes that say what a great coach Irvine is. After all, Preston and Sheff Wed did so well under him.....
Someone else posted that he's a great no. 2. There's an interesting alternative connotation to that that I'll leave people to think about for themselves, and perhaps the original poster was sarcastically implying this, but Irvine hasn't been a successful assistant manager anywhere that I can see from his record, so perhaps someone can put me straight on that?
Dear Mr Irvine.
According to local media you have not yet finalised your release from your current job at Everton. If have taken the time to check the local press and social media, you will see that you are not wanted by the overwhelming majority of WBA fans, myself included.
I have read that you are delighted at being offered the job. I am sure your are. But we are not. Withdraw your application and stay away from our club.
Peace may want you but we do not.
academy@evertonfc.com Just sent
I do actually agree with many posts, it is a very underwhelming appointment.
But the venom shown by some fans is getting ridiculous.
All I'm saying is give it a chance and show some support.
The last thing we want is the fans turning against the team in the first game if it is not going well.
Wouldn't it have been more accurate to say ".....speaking for the overwhelming majority of Albion fans....."?
Only quotes from players / staff so far i have seen has been Terry McDermott who said he was a great coahc and Sean St Ledger who said he is the best coach he has worked with.
Havent seen any yet from players / staff against him so has anybody got any of these quotes out of curiosity?
Fans need and deserve to be respected by the club they support. If that doesn't happen, things unravel. Therefore, given the contempt with which Albion fans have been treated for some time in a number of respects, "show some support" doesn't really cut it anymore as far as the present regime is concerned. They have taken the club away from the fans, so can have no complaints at all for the fans going away from them.I realise many fans are getting disillusioned but Irvine doesn't deserve some of the stuff being thrown at him.
I realise many fans are getting disillusioned but Irvine doesn't deserve some of the stuff being thrown at him.
Everyone deserves a chance to do the job given to them.
At the moment he's a dead man walking regardless of whether he's any good or not.
I guess 99% of people like me unhappy with this choice will in the ground back the players, back Irvine during and before a game so if folk want to vent their spleen then they are welcome to do so on this forum, thats the point of this forum so people can say what they feel so can we cut the stuff trying to make out some are not proper fans by not agreeing with this decision.
Some are happy with it, some not happy with it but happy to see how it goes and some not happy, none of them make you a better fan, supporter or whatever and none of it makes anyone a dingle, a villa fan, fickle or the rest of the pointless comments we're getting on here.
I'm sorry but hanging a bed sheet on the Astle gates is a very Villa/Wolves like action.
I'm sorry but hanging a bed sheet on the Astle gates is a very Villa/Wolves like action.
Whilst I agree, surely the board should have considered the backlash in naming Irvine head coach.I don't think there was any manager they could have picked who would have been welcomed with open arms.......lol
Had they of spoken with me Saturday morning I could have predicted the fans response, are they so far removed that they thought fans would welcome Irvine with open arms.
Do you know what, if I'm Alan Irvine with all this vitreol thrown at me, I think I might change my mind. What then, another 4 weeks before we appoint a head coach?
None of the others in the frame were that inspiring either.
I do think that Peace ought to send voting slips out to everyone for the next manager then pick the one the majority choose.
What utter rubbish!
Whilst I hate Villa and Wolves their fans are no different to any other club and contain a diverse mix of characters.
As fans they are passionate about their club.
Thats one of the worrying things. We're a club now established in this division but struggling to attract the level of coaches that position should be so theres a problem somewhere that needs addressing. In 12-18 months we will be back in the same position and will replace Irvine with another in the same vein as him, Clarke, RDM etc
I don't think there was any manager they could have picked who would have been welcomed with open arms.......lol
I do think that Peace ought to send voting slips out to everyone for the next manager then pick the one the majority choose.
Even then people would still moan if it wasn't their choice.
What does that have to do with any of the posts on here ?
To question someones support because they disagree with a decision is just as bad at the other end of the scale.
Thats one of the worrying things. We're a club now established in this division but struggling to attract the level of coaches that position should be so theres a problem somewhere that needs addressing. In 12-18 months we will be back in the same position and will replace Irvine with another in the same vein as him, Clarke, RDM etc
This doesn't really answer my question in the post you highlighted.I was asking for you to back up your claim that "Irvine is a highly respected coach within the game". It'll take more than a couple of quotes to convince me of that.
A post inferred that Billy Jones, Richard Chaplow, & Craig Beattie had negative opinions regarding AI & I asked for a link, as yet not forthcoming.
People are talking on here about taking their bed sheets to games? Same idea as hanging one up on the gates really.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with disagreeing with a decision, the way someone reacts to a decision though can certainly be questioned.
The problem that needs addressing is the same problem every time, Downing and Kiely we will not get another decent head coach whilst they are forced to work with those two.
I don't think there was any manager they could have picked who would have been welcomed with open arms.......lolWe had one already at the club who 80+% of those who voted here wanted to be allowed to continue this season. That's about as united as it can realistically get for us I would imagine. The percentage might have been even higher still if voters had known at the time that the alternative would be Irvine!
Oh come on!It was tongue in cheek.....lol.
No one is asking for a vote, and you will certainly never please everyone.
However, after last season what we needed was renewed hope.
The appointment of Irvine has removed any hope I had for next season, the only way it will return is if Peace provides the 5 or 6 quality players we need.
We had one already at the club who 80+% of those who voted here wanted to be allowed to continue this season. That's about as united as it can realistically get for us I would imagine. The percentage might have been even higher still if voters had known at the time that the alternative would be Irvine!
Instead of imaginative, attacking football, delivered by a charismatic head coach, we're going to get a dour defensive approach instead, from a characterless individual who will probably be asking us where our coaching badges are before very long.
Can we have another new head coach please before we reach 100 pages on this topic.i would like a new one before we get to 27 pages!!!!!
We had one already at the club who 80+% of those who voted here wanted to be allowed to continue this season. That's about as united as it can realistically get for us I would imagine. The percentage might have been even higher still if voters had known at the time that the alternative would be Irvine!
Instead of imaginative, attacking football, delivered by a charismatic head coach, we're going to get a dour defensive approach instead, from a characterless individual who will probably be asking us where our coaching badges are before very long.
It's been a good year I think since my last post on here after emigrating out the country and having to observe everything from the outside through media and now really lacking being part of Albion as much as I weas for the 10 seasons I had following the club home and away, but the news on Alan Irvine's appointment has really made me so livid I feel I have to take it out on here.
How on earth can a manager of Irvine's track record at Sheffield Wednesday and PNE ever merit him landing a Premier League managerial position. It's outstanding. I wouldn't be surprised if most Championship football fans were disappointed in this as an appointment for them. It stinks of 'lack of ambition' and again show's Peace to be the penny pinching accountant he truly is. How is this guy ever going to take us forward, how is this the person to rebuild a premier league team from scratch and get them organised and winning again?
Yet another 'Yes' man to shove in front of the camera's and downgrade our club as something not worth of the Premier League; 'a team punching above their weight'; well Peace will sure have their wish and will be reaping the consequences of losing those riches come next May. And for the disappointment of those 16,000 naive fans that trusted Peace to turn things around, give us some optimism, give us some hope and a appointment to rally the players and fans alike to appointment nothing more than a puppet coach; shame on you sir, shame on you!
No, it was never Moyes fellow Baggies, we were only ever good enough for his assistant. We wouldn't of minded the Premier League Blackburn winning captain, instead we get the Insurance Broker from Queens Park.
Sorry mate but you cannot unequivocally state what direction the club is going before Irvine has been in the job 5 minutes.
i would like a new one before we get to 27 pages!!!!!
We had one already at the club who 80+% of those who voted here wanted to be allowed to continue this season. That's about as united as it can realistically get for us I would imagine. The percentage might have been even higher still if voters had known at the time that the alternative would be Irvine!
Instead of imaginative, attacking football, delivered by a charismatic head coach, we're going to get a dour defensive approach instead, from a characterless individual who will probably be asking us where our coaching badges are before very long.
Someone ain't happyThat is amazing. Cheered me up immensely :)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=00JhUADQCCY
Brilliant
Lets just get this straight for the non-believers
ANY PROTEST MUST BE AGAINST PEACE, NOT IRVINE.
The bloke ( Irvine ) is completely blameless in all of this as at the end of the day, alls he's done is to accept a job offer, FFS, who wouldn't from his position.
HOWEVER,
That useless piece of s*** who offered him the job is the one and only who will be protested against and deserves EVERYTHING that comes his was. The penny pinching, unscrupulous, manipulative, soul destroying b*****d that he is !!
I absolutely detest the bloke for what he has done here. This club has more money than it has EVER had and all we can afford is the youth coach from Everton............unbelievable !!
PROTEST THIS SATURDAY MORNING AT THE CLUB FOR THOSE WITH THE GUMPTION !!!
One of the things I really don't understand is... we rejected the guy when we appointed Di Matteo. If he is good enough for us now, why wasn't he then?I believe it was the other way around.. He rejected us.
in my time of attending Albion games we have had just under 30 managers(excluding caretakers), Hagan was the first and this is the most inexplicable appointment of the lot,it is also quite probably in the worst 3 or 4 ability wise. Just over 24 hours later and why Irvine is still as mystifying now as it was at the time >:(I've asked myself time and again to try and see some logic in this, but can't come up with anything.
I believe it was the other way around.. He rejected us.
Wouldn't it have been more accurate to say ".....speaking for the overwhelming majority of Albion fans....."?No. This forum has 2000 odd members which is nowhere near a representation of the majority of Albion fans.
Does anybody know if burton and irvine have a history of being friends? Which has helped irvines applicationIt's starting to get a "jobs for the old boys" smell about it
Im really struggling to find the reasons for this
No. This forum has 2000 odd members which is nowhere near a representation of the majority of Albion fans.True but when you take into account the comments on Twitter and Facebook it starts to add up
Irvine has been out of management for 3 years.....why is that ? It must either be that he decided management wasn't for him and went back to academy coaching jobs OR he couldn't find a job. Out of the blue he now takes over a premier league club, this has to be one of the most illogical appointments in premier league history.He is still out of management in your sense of the word. He is appointed as head coach and part of a team of management.
He is still out of management in your sense of the word. He is appointed as head coach and part of a team of management.
You state a 'team of management' but the Head Coach is still the most influential member of the team, henceforth Adder's point remains valid.In old skool football maybe but Irvine seems to accept he is here to coach and is working as part of a team and this is probably why the likes of Sherwood get ruled out. But we have to do things in the English way...and maybe that is why we are not successful as a nation in football?
In old skool football maybe but Irvine seems to accept he is here to coach and is working as part of a team and this is probably why the likes of Sherwood get ruled out. But we have to do things in the English way...and maybe that is why we are not successful as a nation in football?
In old skool football maybe but Irvine seems to accept he is here to coach and is working as part of a team and this is probably why the likes of Sherwood get ruled out. But we have to do things in the English way...and maybe that is why we are not successful as a nation in football?But in any coaching setup there is ultimately one man with the final say on things and who has the major control of team setup.
But in any coaching setup there is ultimately one man with the final say on things and who has the major control of team setup.One man will ultimately be the fall guy or gain the plaudits but that doesn't necessarily mean he has to provide all the answers. Last year our recruitment was pants and it appears to have been too heavily influenced by Clarke, he paid the penalty. McDonough became too heavily influenced in the coaching and it was pants, he paid the penalty. A number of players failed to perform and have paidvthe penalty. Peace took too much of a back seat and is paying a penalty with the backlash and criticism. (Its his club, he goes when he wants). Irvine, for me, is being brought in to do the role that we wanted him first time around for which is to concentrate on the coaching and work with the remainder of the professionals that are appointed within the Club .
No, it was never Moyes fellow Baggies, we were only ever good enough for his assistant.He wasn't Moyes' assistant at Everton.
One man will ultimately be the fall guy or gain the plaudits but that doesn't necessarily mean he has to provide all the answers. Last year our recruitment was pants and it appears to have been too heavily influenced by Clarke, he paid the penalty. McDonough became too heavily influenced in the coaching and it was pants, he paid the penalty. A number of players failed to perform and have paidvthe penalty. Peace took too much of a back seat and is paying a penalty with the backlash and criticism. (Its his club, he goes when he wants). Irvine, for me, is being brought in to do the role that we wanted him first time around for which is to concentrate on the coaching and work with the remainder of the professionals that are appointed within the Club .
No. This forum has 2000 odd members which is nowhere near a representation of the majority of Albion fans.If you read the full wording of what I responded to, he was only making reference to the forum. Having said that, you reckon Albion fans in general are more accepting of it than on the online forums?
He wasn't Moyes' assistant at Everton.Preston I am told?
No better than villa fans.... Don't agree with the appointment fair enough but give the bloke a chance. He is appointed now. The board interviewed him and must have seen something. Do you seriously think the bods on the board want to see us fail. Of course they don't! Every appointment is a risk...maybe we'll have some cash for players
No better than villa fans.... Don't agree with the appointment fair enough but give the bloke a chance. He is appointed now. The board interviewed him and must have seen something. Do you seriously think the bods on the board want to see us fail. Of course they don't! Every appointment is a risk...maybe we'll have some cash for players
Preston I am told?Can't say I know one way or the other about that. The Preston page on Wikipedia says: "Moyes left for Everton in March 2002 and his assistant Kelham O'Hanlon took over for the remainder of the season".
Apparently he is by all means an excellent coach.
No better than villa fans.... Don't agree with the appointment fair enough but give the bloke a chance. He is appointed now. The board interviewed him and must have seen something. Do you seriously think the bods on the board want to see us fail. Of course they don't! Every appointment is a risk...maybe we'll have some cash for players
I have no doubt most supporters will give the bloke a chance, however anyone who thinks he will not be hung out to dry the minute something goes wrong is deluded.
A bigger name would be afforded more time, for that reason alone the board have made a massive mistake.
I fear a Steve Kean type situation, where Irvine will quickly become the scapegoat.
Please no, the anger directed to Kean was embarrassing. Peace and the board are game on as far as I'm concerned but Irvine as much as I hate this appointment and I really f****** hate it, must be given time to fail. We are better then that, aren't we?I think if you read most posts they are aimed at JP and the board and not necessarily at AI! People have stated they dont want him but as far as I am aware they blame JP & the board!
I think if you read most posts they are aimed at JP and the board and not necessarily at AI! People have stated they dont want him but as far as I am aware they blame JP & the board!
I read an email sent to AI current workplace telling him to eff off and one quickly followed up with welcome to the club. I just want our anger to be aimed at Peace and the board. The anger displayed against Kean was a waste of time and in some cases were uncalled for. Let's not see AI standing on the touch line with people screaming abuse at him behind the dugout. Turn around and aim it at the directors box.
Who said I'm basing my judgement on a managerial appointment? You've made that assumption.
After a day for it to sink in I've been trying to get my head around this appointment. The two things I keep coming back to is that this guy came close to getting the job before we appointed RDM 1. How come he's never been deemed good enough since, when we've changed managers 2. What has he done in the time since to improve his cv that he's now the best candidate?!
I believe it was the other way around.. He rejected us.
One man will ultimately be the fall guy or gain the plaudits but that doesn't necessarily mean he has to provide all the answers. Last year our recruitment was pants and it appears to have been too heavily influenced by Clarke, he paid the penalty. McDonough became too heavily influenced in the coaching and it was pants, he paid the penalty. A number of players failed to perform and have paidvthe penalty. Peace took too much of a back seat and is paying a penalty with the backlash and criticism. (Its his club, he goes when he wants). Irvine, for me, is being brought in to do the role that we wanted him first time around for which is to concentrate on the coaching and work with the remainder of the professionals that are appointed within the Club .Don't want to drag this on but.... at any club, you get individuals disillusioned with various things / not getting picked/ playing out of position/ want a move away / handling personal issues / team arguments / dissent at tactics etc. etc.
Can't say I know one way or the other about that. The Preston page on Wikipedia says: "Moyes left for Everton in March 2002 and his assistant Kelham O'Hanlon took over for the remainder of the season".
Hi guys. I'm a Toffee in peace, and certainly no WUM. I wanted to know the consensus of your opinions re AI. I've always had a soft spot for Albion and I was pretty surprised to learn of this appointment. Having chatted to fellow Blues, we're of a similar puzzled outlook. Seems like most think he's a great coach and has worked wonders with everyone from the first team (under early Moyes) down to the Academy more recently. However his managerial stints have been less than convincing. I really hope it works out for you and good luck for the coming season.
Hi mate, welcome to the board! Seems a lot of Evertonians have soft spots WBA and I for one quite like Everton too, possibly aided by my mega dislike of Liverpool!
Can you shed any light on Irvine for us? Is he seen as responsible for bringing through and developing the strong youth breaking through at Everton. What positives can we take?
Hi guys. I'm a Toffee in peace, and certainly no WUM. I wanted to know the consensus of your opinions re AI. I've always had a soft spot for Albion and I was pretty surprised to learn of this appointment. Having chatted to fellow Blues, we're of a similar puzzled outlook. Seems like most think he's a great coach and has worked wonders with everyone from the first team (under early Moyes) down to the Academy more recently. However his managerial stints have been less than convincing. I really hope it works out for you and good luck for the coming season.Welcome and thanks for the best wishes I and the rest of this board fear we will need them!
The only thing i disagree with from Albion fans on this board is that there is a positive in all this, We will be playing our real rivals in a year and will get to face off against the wolves something i have missed being in the top flight.
Hi guys. I'm a Toffee in peace, and certainly no WUM. I wanted to know the consensus of your opinions re AI. I've always had a soft spot for Albion and I was pretty surprised to learn of this appointment. Having chatted to fellow Blues, we're of a similar puzzled outlook. Seems like most think he's a great coach and has worked wonders with everyone from the first team (under early Moyes) down to the Academy more recently. However his managerial stints have been less than convincing. I really hope it works out for you and good luck for the coming season.
Hello Friend.I am devestated.The lowest i have felt in years supporting the Albion.This man might be an ok coach but look at his managerial record.Its a big worry.I understand the man cant motivate either
Are you sure Irvine is even going to be the head coach ? Im not i think theres only going to be one man who will be having the biggest influence on the dressing room.
Please no, the anger directed to Kean was embarrassing. Peace and the board are game on as far as I'm concerned but Irvine as much as I hate this appointment and I really f****** hate it, must be given time to fail. We are better then that, aren't we?
I agree with Lloydy - the worst possible thing that could happen now is for us to accept the decision and return to our apathetic nature of 'what will be will be'.
We need to keep up the pressure on the board.
Irvine is just an unfortunate pawn in this mess.
I'm finding the blind optimists far more irritating than the Dingles and Villa fans taking the p*ss out of us. Please stop kidding yourselves that this shambolic appointment could actually work. It doesn't make you any more of a fan than the rest of us by not criticising the decision so get off your high horses and accept the fact that Peace and the board have completely messed this up yet again.
Some of the people running this club and the dressing room are pure toxic. As a season ticket holder since the age of 7 and an away season ticket holder I have absolutely no shame in saying that if it takes going down to get rid of Peace, Jenkins, Garlick, Irvine, Kelly, Downing and Kiely then I'd happily accept it.
Seriously, someone please explain to me how, in any way, this appointment could actually work?! Look at his record for gods sake. Absolutely embarrassing. I'd rather have Dave Jones and that's saying something.
I agree with Lloydy - the worst possible thing that could happen now is for us to accept the decision and return to our apathetic nature of 'what will be will be'.Spot on.
We need to keep up the pressure on the board.
Irvine is just an unfortunate pawn in this mess.
Hi mate, welcome to the board! Seems a lot of Evertonians have soft spots WBA and I for one quite like Everton too, possibly aided by my mega dislike of Liverpool!D
Can you shed any light on Irvine for us? Is he seen as responsible for bringing through and developing the strong youth breaking through at Everton. What positives can we take?
You mention high horses and then state you're a home and away season ticket holder, seriously? ???
You would accept going down to get rid of some people? Thats what Wolves fans said so would you swap positions with them now?
I am annoyed with the appointment and seriously underwhelmed but I just cannot see how wishing failure upon the club has any form of positive impact whatsoever.
Wolves are on the up, with a young hungry squad and a manager who knows what he's doing. I'd happily swap places, and it hurts me to say that.
I fail to see how becoming a bubble-headed optimist, vomiting sunshine and blindly hoping that "everything will turn out ok" is going to have any kind of positive impact in the long term.
I'm finding the blind optimists far more irritating than the Dingles and Villa fans taking the p*ss out of us. Please stop kidding yourselves that this shambolic appointment could actually work. It doesn't make you any more of a fan than the rest of us by not criticising the decision so get off your high horses and accept the fact that Peace and the board have completely messed this up yet again.
Some of the people running this club and the dressing room are pure toxic. As a season ticket holder since the age of 7 and an away season ticket holder I have absolutely no shame in saying that if it takes going down to get rid of Peace, Jenkins, Garlick, Irvine, Kelly, Downing and Kiely then I'd happily accept it.
Seriously, someone please explain to me how, in any way, this appointment could actually work?! Look at his record for gods sake. Absolutely embarrassing. I'd rather have Dave Jones and that's saying something.
Ok can't say I agree about Wolves...
There is no longer anything long term about football especially for a club of our standing who get taken the p*** out of with youth players been poached along with managers (Roy) and Sporting Directors (Ashworth)..
Why do you feel the need to insult fans who have a different opinion to yours?
Maybe stamping your feet & waving your arms around helps you get your own way in your life but I have a alternative view to you & no amount of ranting will change that, be angry by all means if thats what gets you through but don't slag off members who express the opposite to you.
FTR I'm not a 'blind optimist', just a realist & I've never been on a horse, let alone a high one.
I've been thinking that maybe AI's appointment was a way to give Downing the job, by deflecting the heat away from him? Running things from the shadows, so to speak.
So does that mean we should just sit back and accept any old garbage that we're served with?
I think there is just some confusion. Surely Irvine has been appointed to replace David Oldfield? Hasn't he? Got to be... Surely.
D
Well, when AI left to manage Preston, there was a distinct change in Everton's playing style. It seemed that Moyes became far more fearful in his approach and the way he set up his teams was definitely different. AI was attributed to be an attacking coach who was behind much of the good attacking play in the mid-Moyes era. Regarding the youth set-up, he was certainly well respected for doing a good job, in fact he was the only ex-player who had been an attacker, amongst Moyes' coaching staff who were all ex-defenders! Apparently Roberto Martinez thought highly of him, as he took on board and implemented RM's ideas quickly and had the youth team playing some great stuff this last season.
If he can blend the pragmatism of Moyes with the tactical awareness of Martinez - you'll have some manager! However that's a BIG IF!!
Good luck!
Do you think people would have lauded his appointment after poaching the Academy manager at Everton for our own academy?
Do what you want mate. Look forward to seeing you start off the Mexican waves when we're relegated.
I think people, myself included, would have thought he would have been an appropriate appointment for the u21 position.
Thanks I'll do that ;)
Will you be there to see the wave or are you going to demand your money back if you bought a ST? or, & more worrying, will you be going to the dingles as you suggested earlier?
D
Well, when AI left to manage Preston, there was a distinct change in Everton's playing style. It seemed that Moyes became far more fearful in his approach and the way he set up his teams was definitely different. AI was attributed to be an attacking coach who was behind much of the good attacking play in the mid-Moyes era. Regarding the youth set-up, he was certainly well respected for doing a good job, in fact he was the only ex-player who had been an attacker, amongst Moyes' coaching staff who were all ex-defenders! Apparently Roberto Martinez thought highly of him, as he took on board and implemented RM's ideas quickly and had the youth team playing some great stuff this last season.
If he can blend the pragmatism of Moyes with the tactical awareness of Martinez - you'll have some manager! However that's a BIG IF!!
Good luck!
I suggested as a club Wolves are on the up, we are very clearly on the way down. I've sat in the Southbank once before, as enjoyable as that day was I certainly won't be repeating it!
I'll be there to witness the inevitable this season. I was there before Peace and Jenkins and I'll be there long after as well.
At least theres one thing we can agree on.
If we don't get this 'guaranteed' relegation & you give me your seat number, I'll come down & we can start the wave together...... hows that
If we don't go down I'll happily buy you a beer ;D
I'm trying to be practical here.
I feel sorry for Irvine as he will have a lot of supporters gunning for him and his only crime is getting a job as a Premier League manager.
If there are to be protests or anger then it is solely the bald one and his directors who should incurr the wrath of the fans.
I suspect the calibre of players that we recruit in the next few weeks will dictate the depth of feeling towards Irvine on opening day of the season.
Get off the mark with a few wins and he should be able to buy himself some time, failure to do that and there will be the inevitable problems that follow.
I'm trying to look on the positive side but its very difficult when you know somebody with a lot more cash than you has taken you for a mug.
Couldn't agree more. Any anger should be directed straight at Peace. I feel sorry for Alan Irvine to be honest.
It takes a lot for Albion fans to turn on their club, but Peace has managed it with aplomb. The last few months have been a complete and utter shambles.
The club lurches from one PR disaster to another on a seemingly weekly basis- it's obvious the board have no respect whatsoever for the fans of this club.
You can stick your pinstripes Jeremy.
We should be more anoyed about missing out on one of Sherwoods coaching staff - Ramsey.I dont want irvine to fail I dont want you watch a relegation fight again this comming season but by appointing Irvine we have achieved nothing. The downing and deano needed to go as there partlh whats wrong. Pepe wanted to change the style but be needed is own men and was denied. Sherwood wanted his own men and that was also a sticking point. Ime guessing the 2 lot interviews revolved around 1 question. " Will you work with whats already there" and irvine obviously said yes.
I work with an ex - professional who mixes a lot with British coaches and says that Ramsey is an 'Unbelievable' coach. He was genuinely excited for us when he though Ramsey was going to be working with some of our players.
Writing's on the wall folks: I think JP is looking to wind down his direct financial investment into the playing and coaching staff because he's looking to sell up.
Look at the facts: he's made this offer of £3,000 a pop to existing shareholders so he can get to a 75% shareholding.
That means he can sell to whoever he wants.
He's winding down his investment of time and money in the club, but in the process we could end up going down.
Writing's on the wall folks: I think JP is looking to wind down his direct financial investment into the playing and coaching staff because he's looking to sell up.
Look at the facts: he's made this offer of £3,000 a pop to existing shareholders so he can get to a 75% shareholding.
That means he can sell to whoever he wants.
He's winding down his investment of time and money in the club, but in the process we could end up going down.
Nothing personal against you mate but I've seen this themed post on numerous occasions & I can't believe that some can't see the improbability of it, will WBA be worth more or less money to JP if we get relegated, its just nonsensical to think Peace wants us to go down, the best analogy I can offer is this: say you've got a car to sell & in its current condition its worth £10.000, would you take a piece of 4x2 & batter it, making it worth less then half? ...........answers on a postcard :)
Nothing personal against you mate but I've seen this themed post on numerous occasions & I can't believe that some can't see the improbability of it, will WBA be worth more or less money to JP if we get relegated, its just nonsensical to think Peace wants us to go down, the best analogy I can offer is this: say you've got a car to sell & in its current condition its worth £10.000, would you take a piece of 4x2 & batter it, making it worth less then half? ...........answers on a postcard :)
Investor, i want to buy, but i'm not paying all the tax,
Jezza, ok $x, xxx,xxx in cayman account and $x,xxx,xxx through the WBA holdings account ok
Investor, sounds cool, get 75% of the shares into WBA holdings and we're good to go.
Jezza, ok will have to a bit of ducking and diving to scare the unwashed into signing over their shares, but as soon as we have them its all yours.
Shakes hands!!
Investor, i want to buy, but i'm not paying all the tax,
Jezza, ok $x, xxx,xxx in cayman account and $x,xxx,xxx through the WBA holdings account ok
Investor, sounds cool, get 75% of the shares into WBA holdings and we're good to go.
Jezza, ok will have to a bit of ducking and diving to scare the unwashed into signing over their shares, but as soon as we have them its all yours.
Shakes hands!!
Its planned for Half time in the England game on Thursday.....
Its planned for Half time in the England game on Thursday.....Yes just because Peace knows no one will be around to hurl the deserved abuse heading his way, the COWARD
Yes just because Peace knows no one will be around to hurl the deserved abuse heading his way, the COWARD
Yes I'm sure he's absolutely s4!ting himself at the thought of fans slagging him off, if he is the man many on here have depicted him as, he won't give a flying **** about what any of us think.
As for the scarf waving 'issue', is this just another stick to beat the club with? :-[
If Peace stood at the Kings gates handing out free fivers there would be some calling him a tight wad as it should be tenners. damned if you do & all that
Good point made by westbromjim on another thread.
How come we haven't seen the obligatory scarf waving photo session of peace and Irvine welcome anywhere?
Too embarrassing is it?
Actually you never know he might, maybe he wasn't expecting this level of reaction, he seems so far adrift of what the fans think, and now he has shown his colours that he just doesn't care about the fans either.
Seen this coming for a while, but some fans still stuck up for him, we'll he has crossed that line now of no real return, but hey, what does he care :'(
I'm sure that most if not all Premier team owners don't really care about fans, so please don't think its exclusive to us, given the choice between Sky money or fans money which do you think they would choose?Oh by no means is he on his own, however many of our fans have thought he was ok for this club in the past, now they see his and mark Jenkins true colours.
Jeremy Peace is obviously a wealthy man (queue the 'because he's taking so much out of the club' theorist's), fans need to see beyond petty jealousy & realise that whilst its not & probably never will be perfect, it could be a damn sight worse & here comes the cliche 'BE VERY VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR'
Let's face it, Peace has been left with egg all over his face with this decision. Everyone in football knows that Irvine would have been nowhere near the top of any list, therefore the only logic is that he was the only one who would even consider the job, all other genuine applicants have said no, Sherwood has as good as said so. It also flies in the face of everything he said at the end of the season, so makes him look like a prize plum.
Peace thought he was a big shot, hard talking businessman, but has now been found out to be a spoilt brat who no-one wants to work with. That's why no scarf waving, he is licking his wounds somewhere.
Let's hope his damaged ego prompts him to move on and sell to someone who actually has the club at heart and not purely their own interests.
It's Interesting that someone has mentioned Dan Ashworth, when he was at the club there were loads saying he had to go because his decision making was rubbish. Look how hard he worked for the club and the players he brought in. We certainly miss him now. Give JP some credit i remember JP coming up from London with London supporters club to home games he always had an opinion about how the club should go. He was a committed fan with some sound opinions on finance and football. He has certainly moved this club forward. Sherwood and Ferdinand have no pedigree or track record they would have been a bigger personalities which is always a big risk. Majority of moaning baggies fans i hear sound remarkably like seals!!! Lets see how committed you all are when we start making some signings.
Make your judgment then
It's Interesting that someone has mentioned Dan Ashworth, when he was at the club there were loads saying he had to go because his decision making was rubbish. Look how hard he worked for the club and the players he brought in. We certainly miss him now. Give JP some credit i remember JP coming up from London with London supporters club to home games he always had an opinion about how the club should go. He was a committed fan with some sound opinions on finance and football. He has certainly moved this club forward. Sherwood and Ferdinand have no pedigree or track record they would have been a bigger personalities which is always a big risk. Majority of moaning baggies fans i hear sound remarkably like seals!!! Lets see how committed you all are when we start making some signings.
Make your judgment then
Ha ha decent signings, yeah right, cuckoo cuckoo
Any one got any odds on Irvines sacking at this stage
I've calmed down and will be willing to see what he says in the press conference and what sort of signings we make. I really hope it works out and we have a better season than last.
I've calmed down and will be willing to see what he says in the press conference and what sort of signings we make. I really hope it works out and we have a better season than last.
COME BACK PEPE MEL YOUR CLUB NEEDS YOU
::)
Well it's now been 48 hours since the news broke officially about Alan Irivne and I'd like to confirm I'm still as livid now as I was then.
In fact, now it's finally sunk in, I'm feeling even worse.
It's absolutely scandalous.
Two months before the start of the season and I'm already fearing relegation.
Pathetic.
Maybe a top player signing might help soften the blow
Maybe a top player signing might help soften the blow
Name me any top player thats going to come to us now? We dont pay the wages and irvine will struggle to attract league 1 players!
Whilst trying to understand, make sense of and analyse this debacle, I suddenly had thoughts of a film originally made in 1965 (remade 2004) that starred James Stewart, Richard Attenborough and Hardy Kruger amongst others, the plot rang a bell with me and I thought it had (maybe very tenuous) similarities with our current plight and predicament, the plot went something like this:Theres another great film from around that time called "A night to remember" about a certain unsinkable ship that never reached its destination. The name of the ship.........TITANIC. The only difference is that the Titanics Captain ( Peace in our case ) had the decency to go down with his ship.
Towns ((Stewart) aka Albion Fan) and Moran ((Attenborough) aka Albion Fan) learn that Dorfmann ((Kruger) aka Alan Irvine) designs model aircraft instead of full-sized aircraft. (Academy Coach, no PL Managerial Experience). Dorfmann claims the principles are the same (Coaching PL Players / Academy Players), but Towns and Moran are horrified at the idea of flying an aircraft (watching West Broms first team) made by a man who works with "toys" (Academy Players Coach). Without any other choice (Irvine is appointed Head Coach in spite of fans protestations), however, Towns and Moran forge ahead with the plan (go to home and away matches) and don't tell the others of their discovery (fans suppress their true feelings and continue to support West Brom).
Just as the water runs out (fans total despair begins to set in), the Phoenix is completed (players recruited and the season kicks off). Dorfmann panics when four cartridges fail to start the plane's engine (we lose the first four games of the season) and Towns wants to use one of the remaining three cartridges just to clear the engine's cylinders (fans want Alan Irvine out). Dorfmann objects (Irvine insists he is the man for the job and has had player injuries effecting his preferred playing style), but Towns ignores him and fires one cartridge with the ignition off (Fans become more restless and protest continue). The next cartridge succeeds (Albion win a game, injured players have returned and playing style more attacking). The men pull the Phoenix (West Bromwich Albion) to a nearby hilltop and climb onto the wings (Albion give their full support to the team and Irvine) with Carlos' pet monkey (aka Peace) in tow. When Towns guns the engine (Albion Fans right behind the team), the Phoenix slides down the hill and along a lake bed before taking off (Albion win more games) After the Phoenix lands at an oasis with a manned oil rig, the men celebrate and Towns and Dorfmann reconcile. (The season ends and Albion finish mid-table. Alan Irvine and Albion Fans call a truce for now!)
The Film, "The Flight of The Phoenix" and we all know the mythical story of the Phoenix, don't we?
Keep the Faith during these difficult times, we know who we are!!
(http://)
Let's see what Irvine can do with a good set of players, we need to make sure we have a good transfer window and the majority of our signings need to be a success unlike last year.
Let's see what Irvine can do with a good set of players, we need to make sure we have a good transfer window and the majority of our signings need to be a success unlike last year.
Anybody but Irvine. Peace off peace
Do you really mean anybody? Jones? Terry Connor? Big Eck? Gould?
I'm sure could have been many, many worse. Not to say he's the right man but really there could have been worse.
Let's see what Irvine can do with a good set of players, we need to make sure we have a good transfer window and the majority of our signings need to be a success unlike last year.
Anybody but Irvine. Peace off peace
Can't argue with that. If Burton can pull a few rabbits from the hat let's see where we go after that.Agree with the hammering Irvine is getting, the bloke is doomed before a baall has been kicked. I just don't get the reasoning behind his appointment. Meaning I think it's unfair, not I agree we should hammer him
I really think the vilification of Irvine should stop. The bloke was offered a good opportunity and took it, who wouldn't have done the same. Labelling him Alan Irvine before a ball has been kicked is just unfair on him.
Wheres the link to Mels comments?
Reid and Ridgewell coming back according to Mel because Irvine wont be able to attract anybody else
Not Pepe Mel Dudley.Mel from Dudley on WM :D
Explain what this 'something' is - or even his positive points?i don't know I didn't interview him. Did you? Do you know the man or are you just jumping on this bile of a thread?
Reid and Ridgewell coming back according to Mel because Irvine wont be able to attract anybody else
i don't know I didn't interview him. Did you? Do you know the man or are you just jumping on this bile of a thread?
The reason we didn't get a more high profile coach is simple.
Money!
Richard Sneakers and Froggat have both said tonight that Alan Irvine will be the lowest paid manager/coach in the Premiership. Add the that we have the 4th highest paid chairman on the league you can see the disparity between the two
The reason we didn't get a more high profile coach is simple.
Money!
Richard Sneakers and Froggat have both said tonight that Alan Irvine will be the lowest paid manager/coach in the Premiership. Add the that we have the 4th highest paid chairman on the league you can see the disparity between the two
How does he make more money by getting relegated?
How does he make more money by getting relegated?
Just been on a few other clubs message boards.We surely are giving them something to laugh at
Maybe we should get Scott Parker in to do the team talksOr we could play a Phil Neville commentary over the speakers in the away changing room, same difference really.
Cant see that happening mate. Cheap option coach meaning cheap option players. Only got the job because Sherwood turned it down.
Can't argue with that. If Burton can pull a few rabbits from the hat let's see where we go after that.I don't feel sorry for Irvine at all. Even if he was sacked after 6 games he will walk away with well over £250000 and probably over twice that much. I would take flack for a few months for those bucks especially if it wasn't the club I love.
I really think the vilification of Irvine should stop. The bloke was offered a good opportunity and took it, who wouldn't have done the same. Labelling him Alan Irvine before a ball has been kicked is just unfair on him.
I don't feel sorry for Irvine at all. Even if he was sacked after 6 games he will walk away with well over £250000 and probably over twice that much. I would take flack for a few months for those bucks especially if it wasn't the club I love.
Pass on that one.
Where have I said or intimated that?
A calculated gamble, if WBA go down, I'll guarantee you JP's salary won't, and if he or one of his little bum chums wanna come on here and tell me different then fine.
Yes, but from what I know about his personal fortune, which is admittedly not definitive, his WBA shares must make up a very large part of it. A Premier League club is much more valuable than a Championship club. Relegation would inflict a paper loss on those shares far greater than his annual salary or any savings gained by hiring Irvine.If you were a multi millionaire and owned any club but ours would you care if the club went down. People do sometimes reach a point with their wealth where they are satisfied and become complacent over if they have £50 £60 or whatever and if we went down the owner will still have more a lot of money.
Yes, but from what I know about his personal fortune, which is admittedly not definitive, his WBA shares must make up a very large part of it. A Premier League club is much more valuable than a Championship club. Relegation would inflict a paper loss on those shares far greater than his annual salary or any savings gained by hiring Irvine.
If you were a multi millionaire and owned any club but ours would you care if the club went down. People do sometimes reach a point with their wealth where they are satisfied and become complacent over if they have £50 £60 or whatever and if we went down the owner will still have more a lot of money.
Well, I would imagine WBA the championship club, is a far easier sell than WBA the Premier League club, considering the liabilities of being in each respective divbision. if we believe what we are told the Albion is worth around £125m, lets say we go down and half of that figure becomes to 'true value of WBA' 75% of that ain't a bad return for somebody that has risked absolutely zero of his own cash
Apologies for the spelling
Point taken, but that doesn't mean I would try to make it happen.
If he's that desperate to sell, why wouldn't he offer it right now for half-price and just skip the relegation part?
I thought that is/was exactly what he is doing.
Franksie tonight on WM (for so called balance) kept saying to all the criticism of the appointment of Ivirne "well what if Albion win their first 3 games what will you think of the coach then"? Well we wont win the first 3 games. We will be lucky if we win 3 games all season. I can see it now first game at home we go 1-0 down. The chants of peace out begin. At 3-0 down there is a mass walk out like at the end of the season game. Then repeat the same scenario at the next game until after 6 home games he is sacked. God only knows what then. Nothing will change while we have the owner we have. Again Franksie made my blood boil saying "be careful what you wish for". Well I wish for a place in the premier league with some modest ambition not 8th every season just some pride in our club for the way we try and play. Like Swansea Stoke Hull Crystal Palace Southampton to name a few . Are they all bigger clubs than us? Why can t we have their ambition we have very similar Turnover and wages (and if you don't believe that look at this http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/01/premier-league-accounts-club-by-club-david-conn) And if you do look for one of the highest paid directors in the premier league. See if it marries up with the lowest PAID MANAGER IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE YES YOU GUESSED IT IRVINE. I hope sometime soon I can stop feeling so angry and have some hope for the club I love.
Had we been a league 1 side, the appointment of Alan Irvine i feel would have been a good one. However we are premiership. Why would you take the club backwards. To dismantle a team inside 2 seasons, after 24 years of hard graft, and planning to produce a quality premiership side, to which we were 2 seasons ago, is absolutley appauling. How can a team just promoted as champions from league 1, Wolves, have better coach than us who are in the premiership, is just beyond me. I would have preffered Kenny Jacket, than Alan Irvine. Jeremy should stand back and take a good hard look at this latest debarcle. Out of all the available guys with premier exxperience, why would you go for Irvine?. How can we now possibly attract at least 9 quality players, that we so desperately need to survive next season?.
I'm not sure I follow you. Do you mean you think he wants to sell or thinks he can sell the club for exactly the same price, regardless of division?
Presently, £125m is a number on a balance sheet, I don't think that anybody, would have the means to buy us at that price.
We have assets, and liabilities, JP has pretty much maximised our assets, in bricks and mortar, properties, such as the training facilities etc, and now he is minimising our liabilities, such as playing staff. It is my view, that the hay is being made whilst the sun shines, and, because £125m is just a figure, it is my view that yes, absolutely, he would take £60mill tomorrow.
Wow - get 20,000 of us together to stump up three grand then ;)
Wow - get 20,000 of us together to stump up three grand then ;)
i thought 40 million was the price bandied about when he supposedly put us up for sale a couple of years ago
Presently, £125m is a number on a balance sheet, I don't think that anybody, would have the means to buy us at that price.
We have assets, and liabilities, JP has pretty much maximised our assets, in bricks and mortar, properties, such as the training facilities etc, and now he is minimising our liabilities, such as playing staff. It is my view, that the hay is being made whilst the sun shines, and, because £125m is just a figure, it is my view that yes, absolutely, he would take £60mill tomorrow.
I we now know the real reason that Sherwood turned it down is that he wanted his own coaches in and to dispense with Pinky and Perky. We are the only club that when the head coach/manager is replaced we still keep on the rest of the coaching staff that were responsible of failing with that head coach.Absolutely correct. We would have to (and have) go a huge way down the list of people interested in the job before finding someone who didn't want to bring in his own team that he knows and trusts. To insist on keeping the gruesome twosome isn't loyalty, it is stupidity because it is an unreasonable demand for any top coach/manager. Only the desperate would even consider it, so what we end up with is the pick of the desperates, though I don't even think we chose right from them.
If no-one would buy the club for £125m, then it isn't worth £125m. Like anything else, the club is worth exactly what the market will pay for it. That said, I still don't see how being in the Championship would cause the club to be more attractive to a buyer or induce him to pay more for it.
Does anyone know when the long-awaited press conference with Irvine is? When it does happen I hope our journos make it abundantly clear what the majority of fans appear to think about his appointment.
Half time of the England match.
Didnt i hear it was Wednesday
What you COULD do, were you of a devious nature, you could run the club down so much over six months that you suddenly end up with some very cheap shares you could buy. Then once you'd got what you needed to go to plan B, you could just do enough to make sure the club retains its Prem status. Then sell.
All the years we have been carefull, no one has come in for us . We now have I believe 9500 shares and he is looking to buy a few off fans at 3000 each . This would value the club at 28.5 million . We can state clearly that doesn't look a fair figure . Even if we go down we have parachute payments for 4 years. Plus players could be sold off . 60 million could still be looked at a low figure . But it ain't bad considering he hasn't spent much of his own money is it .
Does anyone know when the long-awaited press conference with Irvine is? When it does happen I hope our journos make it abundantly clear what the majority of fans appear to think about his appointment.
If you look at it like buying shares in a company, you wouldn't buy them at top dollar, WBA's stock is probably around 90% of it's potential, to increase that, would take a degree of risk, so if a share is worth say £100, why would you risk that to make £10?
If you buy at a reduced price, then the earning potential is much greater.
If your point is that things which cost less are more desirable, I can hardly disagree. :P
But Peace doesn't have to make the club less valuable to accept less money for it.
Just listened to Burton on Tom Ross defending Irvines Appointment and he did not do a very good job.
When he was asked about bringing in top quality players he paused for quite a while.
I hope I can move on but I am struggling at the moment perhaps a good 100k signing might help from Preston.
Just listened to Burton on Tom Ross defending Irvines Appointment and he did not do a very good job.When have we ever discussed our targets in public before they have signed? Kalou? That went well (and was no doubt part of the reason for our dismal recruitment and the sacking of Clarke)
When he was asked about bringing in top quality players he paused for quite a while.
I hope I can move on but I am struggling at the moment perhaps a good 100k signing might help from Preston.
http://www.freeradio.co.uk/news/sport/burton-on-irvine-appointment/?region=blackcountry®ion=birminghamHe didn't inspire me one little bit. I was hoping for a something but I have to let go of any hope for now and for this upcoming season. We are going down. I am so furious with myself for renewing. If I hadn't I wouldn't have after this appointment.
For anyone who wants to listen to Terry Burton on Irvine.
Alan Irvine on Anichebe a long while ago :D
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/2401383/irvine-victor-can-be-next-drog
Everton assistant Alan Irvine believes Victor Anichebe could one day be as good as Chelsea striker Didier Drogba.
Let see if Irvine can coach it into him :-X
http://www.freeradio.co.uk/news/sport/burton-on-irvine-appointment/?region=blackcountry®ion=birminghamThey couldn't understand why we are also mad with the appointment. I just kept screaming at the radio even at my beloved Bomber. He and Tom Ross kept saying it will all depend on what players we bring in. BUT WE ALL KNOW AS ALBION FANS WE WONT BRING IN GOOD PLAYERS. We know now that the appointment of Irvine is a sign of the quality of players we will buy. At what point are we right in Bombers and Toms opinion to be as furious as we are now. Will they agree when they see the players that come in? Why can't they see what we know?
For anyone who wants to listen to Terry Burton on Irvine.
Alan Irvine on Anichebe a long while ago :D
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/2401383/irvine-victor-can-be-next-drog
Everton assistant Alan Irvine believes Victor Anichebe could one day be as good as Chelsea striker Didier Drogba.
Let see if Irvine can coach it into him :-X
Embarrassing!And now they have bought on some bloke called Odemwingie remember him?
Shola Ameobi has just come on for Nigeria by the way. He'd form a lethal partnership with Anichebe plus he's on a free. Go get him JP. ;D
And now they have bought on some bloke called Odemwingie remember him?
All the fans can do now is wait and see . The new bloke is in and many aren't pleased but it's still our club . Get behind them and keep yeah fingers crossed .Fingers crossed we don't see scenes of Albion supporters fighting with each other when we start losing. Some getting angry at others saying "support the team" "stop booing get behind the lads" I can see the whole ugly mess of a season in front of us. Tom Ross is living in cloud cukoo land if he thinks we will bring in top players. Its just not going to happen. This appointment tells us that. Cheap that's the guide not quality.
I see according to Pat Frost, Roy Hodgson says Alan Irvine is a "great coach".
Still, everyone on here probably knows better than the England manager so I suppose AI must just rubbish like they all say.
No need to speculate, you'll find out in a few months and I can almost guarantee that what they all say is indeed right. Roy is too much of a gentleman to say anything else, as you well know.
Alan Irvine on Anichebe a long while ago :DForgive me but wasn't Irvine a coach at Everton when Big Vic was a kid, so he failed to get Vic to achieve & Everton flogged him. Not a great vindication of AI's success is it?
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/2401383/irvine-victor-can-be-next-drog
Everton assistant Alan Irvine believes Victor Anichebe could one day be as good as Chelsea striker Didier Drogba.
Let see if Irvine can coach it into him :-X
You're right, and as I have said before, until he proves himself the useless idiot people say I will give him the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to prove otherwise.
One other thing. I have been watching Albion a long, long time and I have yet to see anyone, player, coach, manager, referee...anyone at all improve their performance as a response to being abused.
You are clearly a very nice person.
But I haven't read a post yet that called him a stupid idiot, so it doesn't help your credibility any to make things up
Forgive me but wasn't Irvine a coach at Everton when Big Vic was a kid, so he failed to get Vic to achieve & Everton flogged him. Not a great vindication of AI's success is it?
Forgive me but wasn't Irvine a coach at Everton when Big Vic was a kid, so he failed to get Vic to achieve & Everton flogged him. Not a great vindication of AI's success is it?
...or even summarising the general sentiment, sorry grammatical slipI'm sure that the general sentiment is quite capable of summarising itself, without any outside help thank you
As you'll note, I didn't quote anyone and was simply paraphrasing the general sentiment bring expressed by a large number of posters.Just because you have posted a few more times than me and have supported the Albion since they were formed, there's no need to be sarcastic
Sorry if I offended your pedantic sensibilities though I imagine you'll live.
I'm sure that the general sentiment is quite capable of summarising itself, without any outside help thank you
Forgive me but wasn't Irvine a coach at Everton when Big Vic was a kid, so he failed to get Vic to achieve & Everton flogged him. Not a great vindication of AI's success is it?
Just because you have posted a few more times than me and have supported the Albion since they were formed, there's no need to be sarcastic
http://www.freeradio.co.uk/news/sport/burton-on-irvine-appointment/?region=blackcountry®ion=birminghamThis was pretty underwhelming to my mind, not helped by Tom Ross's pathetically fawning attitude, who was more interested sucking up to Burton than properly representing the view of the majority of the fans.
For anyone who wants to listen to Terry Burton on Irvine.
You're right, and as I have said before, until he proves himself the useless idiot people say I will give him the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to prove otherwise.
One other thing. I have been watching Albion a long, long time and I have yet to see anyone, player, coach, manager, referee...anyone at all improve their performance as a response to being abused.
that's odd because ive seen loads of players at the albion get abuse and then give great performances
As I say, I haven't. My experience is that people being abused go into their shells and withdraw. But if you think differently that's up to you.
As you'll note, I didn't quote anyone and was simply paraphrasing the general sentiment bring expressed by a large number of posters.Listen I don't think you quite get it. It wouldn't matter if we sang we loved the man and the club from 2.30 to 5.00pm on match day from the stands. We will go down next season with the quality of the players and coaching staff we will have by the beginning of the season. And as for Irvine I don't feel sorry for him in any way. Do you really think he cares about West Bromwich Albion. Or do you think the £250000 - £500000 salary he will collect even if he is sacked after losing our first 6 games had something to do with him saying yes to being our manager. Yes he will carry the can for the clubs penny pinching and lack of ambition but that's up to him. I would swap places with him for all the pressure he is about to be under for that money as long as it wasn't to manage my club, knowing in my heart I haven't a chance of avoiding relegation with what I will have to work with. Albion is my club its just another cone to him who are willing to pay him a lot of money whatever happens. I will still be supporting them when he is sunning himself in January at his holiday villa.
Sorry if I offended your pedantic sensibilities though I imagine you'll live.
Do you refer to me as "outside"? If so, outside of what, and why?Outside of what most of us seem to be thinking. Which doesn't make you necessarily wrong, though I think you'll come round given a little time
its not what I think its what ive seen ,some players have thrived on abuse and used it to spur them on. one of the worlds most iconic footballers had years of abuse and became a brilliant player ie david beckham
Oh dear, you are offended, and yet you thought to accuse me of making things up. I imagine you felt that an entirely benign comment?
Not since the club was formed as it happens, just a long, long time.
Outside of what most of us seem to be thinking. Which doesn't make you necessarily wrong, though I think you'll come round given a little time
Well, good point about Beckham yes, can't argue with that though I see him as exceptional rather than the general rule.
Listen I don't think you quite get it. It wouldn't matter if we sang we loved the man and the club from 2.30 to 5.00pm on match day from the stands. We will go down next season with the quality of the players and coaching staff we will have by the beginning of the season. And as for Irvine I don't feel sorry for him in any way. Do you really think he cares about West Bromwich Albion. Or do you think the £250000 - £500000 salary he will collect even if he is sacked after losing our first 6 games had something to do with him saying yes to being our manager. Yes he will carry the can for the clubs penny pinching and lack of ambition but that's up to him. I would swap places with him for all the pressure he is about to be under for that money as long as it wasn't to manage my club, knowing in my heart I haven't a chance of avoiding relegation with what I will have to work with. Albion is my club its just another cone to him who are willing to pay him a lot of money whatever happens. I will still be supporting them when he is sunning himself in January at his holiday villa.
I agree most players do suffer with abuse but some thrive on it,remember the young lad who played left back for albion on his debut I think it was (sorry I cant recall his name) got slaughtered by albion fans and was never seen again. then theres tatter bull who got loads of abuse and loved it.
No, I'm not necessarily wrong as all I have said is give the man a chance before vilifying him and I don't really see how that can be argued with. So far he has not lost a match, got any tactics wrong, picked a player out of position...he hasn't even started and has been slated. So no, I'm not necessarily wrong in asking for a chance for him to prove you all right...or wrong.
Hahaha, nah it takes a lot worse than a bit of banter to offend me. You have to be thick skinned to support the Albion, as you will surely know, having supported them for soooooooooooo long
Bry I don't think you have read my posts, or at least if you have I haven't made myself clear. I was as surprised as the next man by his appointment however he hasn't actually even started and folks are haranguing him and giving him all sorts.That's the whole point if the majority of us are right it isn't FINE. I will have no solace in telling you next year I was right and won't have the will to bother.
My view is that is unfair and unnecessary, the man is in post, wait and see what happens. If it's all as catastrophic as people seem to think it will be then fine, say whatever but at least let him have a match or two before condemning him.
http://www.freeradio.co.uk/news/sport/burton-on-irvine-appointment/?region=birmingham®ion=blackcountry
Ok, fair enough, but just for the record, what is your opinion? Do you think he is a good appointment or not? Do you think he will keep us up next season or not?
For want of a nail the shoe was lost,Very very well said!
for want of a shoe the horse was lost,
for want of a horse the knight was lost,
for want of a knight the battle was lost,
for want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
So a kingdom was lost—all for want of a nail.
Dear JP,
Please can you spend next season, don’t let US the supporters down. We at WEST BROM are kind of special, we have put up with a lot recently, in fact ever since I can remember when I started supporting my club (since 1978). We want to see our club become the club it deserves to be, to be a great club, full of dreams that come true. Please can we have a manager that can inspire and manage greatness, can we have players that will deliver greatness and never give up. All we want from you is to give the club a chance to succeed and be the best it can possibility be.
:(What is it that you want? If you are fed up, then please sell, take what is offered, I am sure you will get your money back and a lot more. Please sell to someone with passion, who loves football for what it gives – HOPE and Passion. Look around you and see other clubs owners investing and believing in their investment, their football team. They believe, why can’t you? :(
Bry I don't think you have read my posts, or at least if you have I haven't made myself clear. I was as surprised as the next man by his appointment however he hasn't actually even started and folks are haranguing him and giving him all sorts.
My view is that is unfair and unnecessary, the man is in post, wait and see what happens. If it's all as catastrophic as people seem to think it will be then fine, say whatever but at least let him have a match or two before condemning him.
tbf to Chipper (sorry if i have got this wrong mate), I think whilst it appears to be crystal Irvine is the wrong choice at this moment in time, we have what we have, and we need to back him. like it, lump it, it is what it is, take your choices.
tbf to Chipper (sorry if i have got this wrong mate), I think whilst it appears to be crystal Irvine is the wrong choice at this moment in time, we have what we have, and we need to back him. like it, lump it, it is what it is, take your choices.How ? Its like buying a ticket to sail on the Titanic knowing what is going to happen. Please tell me how to back him!
By backing him you are backing the decision to appoint him and the people responsible for his appointment. >:( >:(
How ? Its like buying a ticket to sail on the Titanic knowing what is going to happen. Please tell me how to back him!
And again giving the thumbs up to Peace to let him do exactly as he pleases.
but how is that Irvings fault? I agree with you totally, but I just feel your anger is directed at the wrong bod.
Because he's in charge! I don't like it Bry, I 10000 million % dis-agree with it, but, ho hum, what can we do? and as Chipper said, the poor bloke has walked into a tornado, would you take a top Premier league job if it was offered to you? I would! the real question should be why Irvine was considered in the first place, and who exactly thought it was a good idea.look when we are losing our first and second and third game at home I will be singing Peace out not Irvine out.
look when we are losing our first and second and third game at home I will be singing Peace out not Irvine out.
Tom Ross's interviewing was very weak there. He had a chance to be the first to ask the big questions that really need to be answered (and surely will be asked on Wednesday) but he bottled it.Yes, Ross was hopeless. He could also have asked about what style of play we were intedning to adopt, how many players we were looking to sign etc etc.
Where were the questions regarding Irvine's past record in management and the gamble in believing he has now improved enough to go from a 3rd division failure to a top division success? Where were the questions about Tim Sherwood apparently being offered the job and subsequently turning it down? (something I know is probably a lot less straightforward than Sherwood would have you believe). Where were the questions about the future and what our plans are now? Where even were the questions, whether it's Burton's remit or not, about how they are going to get the fans back on side after the biggest fan revolt since the 1990's?
As like many a life long supporter of W.B.A I have never felt so angry and horrified as to how our once proud club has descended into this laughingstock that we now see.The club is now very clearly broken from top to bottom and the fans' Oops sorry "CUSTOMERS" have never been so divided.This is clearly not going to go away when the season starts especially now with this controversial appointment of A.I but also the embarrassing things that have happened over the last year or so. Unhappy players leaving or wanting to leave' twitter abuse' racism' Drugs and of cause the disgraceful & disrespectful treatment of the Astle family. The list goes on and on. players of yesteryear must be truly ashamed and of what is happening to this once proud & respected club. Listening to Stoke City fans singing... " YOU LUCKY B******S YOU SHOULD HAVE GONE DOWN" on the last day of the season only reminded me of how far we have sunk' and yes they were right. Lets all hope for Mr Irvine's sake that he turns out to be the best coach ever' because if one thing is for sure he's going to need to be. For one reason or another the customers of West Bromwich Albion have had enough and will not stand by and watch the demise of our once great club. This could be a very long and painful season. Rant over.
PS Don't forget to rub our nose in it on Wednesday not only with our new head coach but also our new pinstripe strip and sponsorship of ALDI or LIDL
I agree most players do suffer with abuse but some thrive on it,remember the young lad who played left back for albion on his debut I think it was (sorry I cant recall his name) got slaughtered by albion fans and was never seen again. then theres tatter bull who got loads of abuse and loved it.
Welcome stubby. Your point about Albion fans being regarded as customers rather than supporters by the club is a good one. If that's how they want to regard us, then they shouldn't be surprised if we act more like ripped off customers than disgruntled supporters and, frankly, they deserve nothing else.
;D Just wondering if most of the squad will be hiring a bus and driving down to see car salesman Harry at QPR for a gig???
Maybe Odemwingie saw the writing on the wall 18 months ago.......we lambasted him for this??
Maybe he had a point....and maybe it wasn't all his fault?? :P
I see according to Pat Frost, Roy Hodgson says Alan Irvine is a "great coach".
Still, everyone on here probably knows better than the England manager so I suppose AI must just rubbish like they all say.
Think I've said similar somewhere; don't feel it was all the lad's fault now. He's still a bit of a knob though. All that said I wanted him to score when he came on for Nigeria last night.
Getting rid of him, not renewing Lukaku even for one year, getting rid of Long when we were SERIOUSLY short of ANY kind of striker... then not giving Pepe Mel a proper crack - our owner has a game plan - he can't be this stupid - something's going on we don't know about.
Worried now how the exsisting players are going to react.
No votes of confidence, no comments on Twitter, no bullsh*t articles on the official site about how excited the players are to work with Alan Irvine.
The silence is deafening.
No votes of confidence, no comments on Twitter, no bullsh*t articles on the official site about how excited the players are to work with Alan Irvine.
The silence is deafening.
Does anybody think the bald one will do a U turn on this one?
Just thinking when the players get back they might have something to say as well
Does anybody think the bald one will do a U turn on this one?
Just thinking when the players get back they might have something to say as well
Does anybody think the bald one will do a U turn on this one?
Just thinking when the players get back they might have something to say as well
As much as I am shocked and surprised by the club appointing Irvine we really shouldn't be, with the exception of Roy this is the type of manager we have always gone for since Peace has owned the club. Its no good people having a pop at Terry Burton either, he's been in the job two minutes and he has to work to the constraints set by Peace which clearly limits us severely.
So now it's become ok for the players to disrespect the manager ::)
And the fans. But don't let the fact he hasn't moved into his office stop anyone treating him with contempt. Nor by that standards give the man who hired him the opportunity to prove why he's been hired, just jump in say it's a disgrace and hide if it comes off. He not an inspiring name, but if you're seriously suggesting Peace cares so little about the club he'd put anyone in charge why not Downing? Or Doris the tea lady, or someone even cheaper? He's here for his coaching ability, and last time I checked he hasn't started to coach our club yet.
Burton: "We understand there is disappointment but who is more disappointed? The people at Everton FC who know him."
Well if they're that upset me and my mate will drive him back there this afternoon!!!
Just let me know, Terry. I won't even charge for fuel....
I havent seen any banners on the gates at Gooodison yet.What a stupid comment.Burton just another yes man
I think he was alluding more to the Everton FC staff within the club...
As much as I am shocked and surprised by the club appointing Irvine we really shouldn't be, with the exception of Roy this is the type of manager we have always gone for since Peace has owned the club. Its no good people having a pop at Terry Burton either, he's been in the job two minutes and he has to work to the constraints set by Peace which clearly limits us severely.Is it?? Dont think so RDM and Mogga stars were very much in the ascendent, Clarke had been a number 2 at 2 of the biggest clubs in our league, Roy had managed everywhere, only Robson was risky and he was a past hero of the club . Most of the appointments were supposedly up and coming can hardly say that about this division 1 failure >:( >:(
I really do admire your ability to ignore the facts about Alan Irvine's managerial "credentials", and to blindly hope that it comes off. I hope it does but I'm sorry I just can't see it at all.
We fans all know what the outcome is from this ludicrous appointment, we have half a poor squad ,a manager with a shocking record, no flair, no charisma to attract players, no funds to attract players a club in total disarray from last seasons well documented disputes, an assistant manager in Downing who was instrumental in our decline over past 18 months, and a chairman with contempt for the fanbase. In my opinion we will be bottom by Christmas, Irvine will be sacked, no new manager will want to take on the job , players will leave and we will be relegated with 6 games to go . With Keith Downing in charge!! What a disaster, and to think we had the next England manager and came 8th in the league 14 months ago, oh the joy of supporting the Baggies.
In my eyes player acquisitions are more important now
Good job our player recruitment has been top notch in the last 12-18 months then! ;D
I really do feel sorry for the bloke, to be honest he will be in the exact same position as Pepe Mel who everyone rallied behind - having to coach a squad full of mediocre, selfish, arrogant footballers, having to work with (and be undermined by) the current coaching staff, having to recruit players for minimal outlay in terms of transfer fees and wages.
Our situation was bad enough without an exceptionally poor Head Coach appointment, I think that's what has tipped everyone over the edge.
If thats the case why isnt he no 2 there.He was in his rightfull place there
I admit I am having faith in this because I refuse to believe anyone would purposefully try and destroy their own asset so I'm inclined to believe that there MUST be SOMETHING they see that we don't.
but why not would be my question, as as been stated by Greenock it's not his fault he got the job his only crime was to apply for it, we can all go on about his record but the beloved Pepe's was rubbish to so why can't he be shown the same respect as him,
it's PEACE we all need to get at not Irvine
No he wont.Everyone wont ralley round like they did with Mel
Terry Burton just on Radio WM blowing smoke up Irvines ass (as he would).Didn't hear the WM interview but i have heard the Tom Ross one , Burton kept hammering home the point about Irvine being a players coach be it young or old ....trouble is he didn't answer the question on quality signings and we certainly don't want another 5 half hearted loan signings.
Burton: "We understand there is disappointment but who is more disappointed? The people at Everton FC who know him."That's a bizarre thing to say and so takes Burton down a notch in my book. Judging by this comment, he's quickly picked up the club policy of not taking the fans seriously.
That's a bizarre thing to say and so takes Burton down a notch in my book. Judging by this comment, he's quickly picked up the club policy of not taking the fans seriously.Depends what angle you look at it , if it means regarding the great job he was doing in their academy (by all accounts) then i can see what Burton means . Bit harsh to be jumping on Burton just yet IMO , lets see what players arrive first.
Don't know if this has been posted yet, if it has sorry for duplicating.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/06/17/west-broms-terry-burton-alan-irvine-could-be-our-brendan-rodgers/
Wow.
If as Terry Burtons says “Irvine is a top top coach†why didn’t Everton promote him from the kids team instead of appointing Roberto MartÃnez as their head coach. Please don’t insult my intelligence or football knowledge. Terry Burton is beginning to sound like that other old school dinosaur Joe Kinnear when he became director of football at Newcastle. Look at what a success that was and how arogant he was that his knowledge was so superior to any fan. Infact I think they may have worked together
Could be any number of reasons he wasn't promoted. The first one being maybe Martinez is better than Irvine? Would you pick Clarke over Mourinho? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by saying they picked someone over someone else, there's a lot of people better than others, what difference does it make?No the proof of that is the blokes track record FFS !!! wake up and smell the coffee, this bloke should never in a million years been considered for any role involving a premier league team !!!
Maybe Everton were looking for a manager not a head coach? It's not rocket science, nor is it proof that he's terrible because he wasn't made manager of Everton - that proves nothing. If he was dreadful Everton would have sacked him from his youth role. Then saying Burton would be a disaster like Kinnear 'because he sounds like him'? Nice justification.
The more I hear the more it sounds like Downing has been given the job with Irvine being the scapegoat.
No the proof of that is the blokes track record FFS !!! wake up and smell the coffee, this bloke should never in a million years been considered for any role involving a premier league team !!!
Congratulations on proving my bloody point - I said that not being made Everton manager is not proof of anything, I didn't for a minute say that there was NO proof, I'm stating that using 'Everton hired Martinez as their manager instead of their Youth Coach' isn't enough to rake the poor sod over the coals. But feel free to lambast me further, than agree with what I've said.
I fail to see where I've said I agree with this appointment and I refuse to be treated like some sort of delusionial for suggesting you WAIT AND SEE HOW HE DOES before you treat him like he's just lost 15 games in a row. You're all about facts, here's one for you - he's not failed at West Bromwich Albion. Here's another fact, he hasn't coached a single game at West Bromwich Albion. Here's another one, we have 38 games to play before we could possibly be in a different division. Here's another one, his track record isn't encouraging, but he's not coached a game yet and unless you can see into the future, or have invented forward time travel, I fail to see how you KNOW this will end in failure. I feel it will, but I'm not certain so I don't stamp my feet and paint bed sheets. There's a huge difference between feeling something will happen and it happening.
By your reckoning we could appoint Coco the bloody Clown as Head Coach and he wouldn't be a failure because "we haven't given him a chance to fail yet".
Come on.
Congratulations on proving my bloody point - I said that not being made Everton manager is not proof of anything, I didn't for a minute say that there was NO proof, I'm stating that using 'Everton hired Martinez as their manager instead of their Youth Coach' isn't enough to rake the poor sod over the coals. But feel free to lambast me further, than agree with what I've said.
I fail to see where I've said I agree with this appointment and I refuse to be treated like some sort of delusionial for suggesting you WAIT AND SEE HOW HE DOES before you treat him like he's just lost 15 games in a row. You're all about facts, here's one for you - he's not failed at West Bromwich Albion. Here's another fact, he hasn't coached a single game at West Bromwich Albion. Here's another one, we have 38 games to play before we could possibly be in a different division. Here's another one, his track record isn't encouraging, but he's not coached a game yet and unless you can see into the future, or have invented forward time travel, I fail to see how you KNOW this will end in failure. I feel it will, but I'm not certain so I don't stamp my feet and paint bed sheets. There's a huge difference between feeling something will happen and it happening.
Congratulations on proving my bloody point - I said that not being made Everton manager is not proof of anything, I didn't for a minute say that there was NO proof, I'm stating that using 'Everton hired Martinez as their manager instead of their Youth Coach' isn't enough to rake the poor sod over the coals. But feel free to lambast me further, than agree with what I've said.Why dont you just sit and fiddle while Rome burns, the rest of us will try ( probably without success ) to avert such a disaster. I take no pride in coming on here in 6 to 12 months time when this bloke has failed ( again ) and saying I told you so.
I fail to see where I've said I agree with this appointment and I refuse to be treated like some sort of delusionial for suggesting you WAIT AND SEE HOW HE DOES before you treat him like he's just lost 15 games in a row. You're all about facts, here's one for you - he's not failed at West Bromwich Albion. Here's another fact, he hasn't coached a single game at West Bromwich Albion. Here's another one, we have 38 games to play before we could possibly be in a different division. Here's another one, his track record isn't encouraging, but he's not coached a game yet and unless you can see into the future, or have invented forward time travel, I fail to see how you KNOW this will end in failure. I feel it will, but I'm not certain so I don't stamp my feet and paint bed sheets. There's a huge difference between feeling something will happen and it happening.
Well if by some miracle this joke appointment actually works out, the end of season theme is already sorted surely?
Father Ted - Feck backside (which at the moment sums up my feelings towards the club)
Whatever, aim things at me personally, I couldn't give a damn, I'm just saying you can be opposed to the appointment without going insane. You sit there drunk off all summer, seething, demanding your money back, hating the club and its custodians, taking rubbish off every Dingle and Seal you know, spending your wages on bed sheets and paint, already planning your away trips in the Championship, and I'll join you in December if and when things go to pot.
Enjoy your summer.
Finally I get your point. Buts that's the sad part when one finally concedes that there is nothing I can F***ING do to help the club I love.
Those of us that do want to try and do something have nothing to lose by trying
I actually think we might do ok under him, a lot of his problems seemed to be related to terrible player recruitment, if our scouting can be pre last season levels then that shouldn't be an issue.
I just hope there's not a poisonous atmosphere of fans willing him to fail in the stadium next season, though I suspect there will be. A bit like Bolton fans and Megson.
Potential candidates must meet the following criteria:
Applicants must hold a current UEFA ‘A’ Licence, with priority given to applicants holding the English FA Award •• Applicants from outside the UK must hold the current A Licence equivalent award of that country, with priority given to holders of The FA UEFA ‘A’ Coaching Licence
All applicants must typically have experience in the professional game (or women’s equivalent) at senior level as either a player (minimum five yearsexperience), player coach, coach, assistant manager or manager
Priority will be given to applicants who have significant coaching experience with senior players in the domestic professional game
Applications are considered by the UEFA Pro-Licence Admissions Committee, which is made up of a representative from The FA, the League Managers’ Association, Professional Footballers’ Association, Premier League and Football League and the intake is agreed to commence the course in January 2013.
Course content
The following modules will be covered:
Professional communication
Communicating with players
Communicating with staff
Communicating with senior management, owners and senior stakeholders
Communicating with the media, wider community and supporters
Communicating with third party talent identification and recruitment agencies
Leadership, management of self and others
Influence and influencing
Practical applications of leadership
Leading and developing staff and associates
Leading winning teams in the modern game
Managing oneself and handling the pressures of management
Decision-making, and time and priority management
Performance management
Tactical understanding of the game and of systems of play
Technical understanding of play and players
Talent identification and recruitment
Performance analysis and purposeful use of data
Seasonal planning and preparation
Weekly planning, preparation and management
Match day management
Understanding and utilisation of physical conditioning, recovery and rehabilitation
Developing and sustaining a winning culture
Football business and finance
Understanding finance
Building a brand
Employment and contract law
Commercial and other revenue opportunities
Marketing and public relations
Course assessment
In order to complete the Licence, students must attend all modules and complete all associated distance learning and course tasks.
I actually think we might do ok under him, a lot of his problems seemed to be related to terrible player recruitment, if our scouting can be pre last season levels then that shouldn't be an issue.
I just hope there's not a poisonous atmosphere of fans willing him to fail in the stadium next season, though I suspect there will be. A bit like Bolton fans and Megson.
I don't see why there would be a poisonous atmosphere against Irvine unless he makes decisions that almost everyone can see is a wrong one like the square pegs in round holes we have seen in the past when alternatives are available in those positions. I think any poison will be aimed at Peace and Irvine is just the unfortunate man in the role.
Everyone wants the club to do well and make the most of the position we are in. Yes its all about staying in the league for a club like us and yes finishing 8th was above our levels and we're unlikely to do it again. I understand and to an extent accept that but still struggle to see how Irvine is the best option available to a club like ourselves getting ready for yet another season in the top flight and after 5 weeks of searching and even longer when it was obvious that Mel would be leaving, that is something I will never get my head round even if he does succeed.
A decent cup run occasionally would also work wonders to help boost morale.
This is what you need to do to get the UEFA Pro Licence, a requirement to manage in the EPL. Clearly, there's more to it than just teaching.On a lighter note, looking at the 6th line from the bottom "understanding finance", how the hell did 'Arry ever get his license ???
On a lighter note, looking at the 6th line from the bottom "understanding finance", how the hell did 'Arry ever get his license ???Now that did make me chuckle!! .....unless his dog went with him!! :D
Whilst his record as a manager is not great, haven't we appointed him as head coach? Would the director of football not direct the manner in which we play? When we tried to appoint him the first time and we had the he said she said debate, wasn't Dan Ashworth part of the team that wanted to appoint him? As pointed out elsewhere, if previous records were the only thing to look at, Liverpool would quite probably not be playing Champions League (and who would sign Suarez?)
Different chapter that may end in disaster but if anyone truly believes the worst, put your mortgage on it, easy money.
at 0:30 does he say "I'm enjoying my first Mauling"?He does, but I think he meant Mourning.
Whilst his record as a manager is not great, haven't we appointed him as head coach? Would the director of football not direct the manner in which we play? When we tried to appoint him the first time and we had the he said she said debate, wasn't Dan Ashworth part of the team that wanted to appoint him? As pointed out elsewhere, if previous records were the only thing to look at, Liverpool would quite probably not be playing Champions League (and who would sign Suarez?)
Different chapter that may end in disaster but if anyone truly believes the worst, put your mortgage on it, easy money.
No mate Head coach's job is to handle all things on field including matchday tatics. what you suggest would be like Ashworth picking Hodgson's team and tactics when they were both hereThat is the assumption (and because of the way other British clubs have historically done their business). Irvine has said he is here to coach and is it unreasonable that he is given a mandate from the club as to the way in which he takes this forward?
I like attacking football "BUT" I'm a realist ;D 1 step forward 2 steps back thereTo be fair that is probably the exact kind of thing Hodgson would've said. I've been stewing sincethe appointment was made, not posting on here very much. I'm very much behind Alan Irvine now, he HAS to be given the chance to prove himself. But that's it. If he doesn't take the chance by october, november then Peace needs to re-think.
That is the assumption (and because of the way other British clubs have historically done their business). Irvine has said he is here to coach and is it unreasonable that he is given a mandate from the club as to the way in which he takes this forward?Then to turn an old saying on its head. We have too many Indians and sadly not enough Chiefs
To be fair that is probably the exact kind of thing Hodgson would've said. I've been stewing sincethe appointment was made, not posting on here very much. I'm very much behind Alan Irvine now, he HAS to be given the chance to prove himself. But that's it. If he doesn't take the chance by october, november then Peace needs to re-think.
I'm also 100% behind everybody that wants Peace out. Unless this is a masterstroke, which right now i'm not holding high hopes for, then he's really holding the club back. I think we were all very excited by the prospect of Sherwood joining us, but that has gone now.
Even though none of us like it, Irvine needs to be supported come match time along with the 11 on the pitch. We as fans need to stick together.
It's a massive shame that he hasn't shown ambition (ala Southampton with Koeman) and there is nothing to excite us about Irvine, but he's here, and we need to let him prove himself. But like i've said, that's all he gets. If he does? Then i'd say Peace got lucky and we still need to evolve from him.
I've probably contradicted myself here, i don't really care because this is the first time i've typed out my feelings.
In summary: gutted, let down, underwhelmed, but it'd done now so let's see what he can do.
DOWNRIGHT DISRESPECTFUL :-[
I've read virtually all of the post's on this thread & I noticed that some members are referring to Alan Irvine as Alan Irvine, unsure why this was as his name is James Alan Irvine, I've scrolled back & it appears to be an acronym meaning Alan F*****G Irvine, I find this totally disrespectful to a man who is our new coach, posters saying "I blame Peace" not Irvine & yet then calling him Alan Irvine, even one of the mods referred to him as Alan Irvine in another thread :-[ plummeting new lows :-[
DOWNRIGHT DISRESPECTFUL :-[
I've read virtually all of the post's on this thread & I noticed that some members are referring to Alan Irvine as Alan Irvine, unsure why this was as his name is James Alan Irvine, I've scrolled back & it appears to be an acronym meaning Alan F*****G Irvine, I find this totally disrespectful to a man who is our new coach, posters saying "I blame Peace" not Irvine & yet then calling him Alan Irvine, even one of the mods referred to him as Alan Irvine in another thread :-[ plummeting new lows :-[
DOWNRIGHT DISRESPECTFUL :-[
I've read virtually all of the post's on this thread & I noticed that some members are referring to Alan Irvine as Alan Irvine, unsure why this was as his name is James Alan Irvine, I've scrolled back & it appears to be an acronym meaning Alan F*****G Irvine, I find this totally disrespectful to a man who is our new coach, posters saying "I blame Peace" not Irvine & yet then calling him Alan Irvine, even one of the mods referred to him as Alan Irvine in another thread :-[ plummeting new lows :-[
Yeah we need to respect and give him a chance to prove himself. Any hatred should be aimed towards Peace.
I'm not ignoring anything - though I do think that we focus a lot on track records and not on abilities. Like I've said plenty of times I think the appointment is poor considering some people we've spoken to but I reserve my judgement until he's actually had chance to prove us right or wrong. I'd also like to point out that he didn't relegate Preston, he got them from 15th in the league to the playoffs and his sacking resulted in a demonstration by Preston fans when he left.They might have demonstrated after his sacking but his sacking was a result of a run of 1 win in 10 games! For me I would hardly call that firing an overreaction from the club. As for Everton seeing something in him sure I agree with you they saw him as a good coach that can bring players along improving their footballing skills! That is not the qualities we need in the head coach of our first team! Our club is in shambles compared to just 2-3 seasons ago and we needed an experienced appt. that has a history they could point to that demonstrates they have the ability to employ various tactics so a successful game plan can be put together thus if implemented by the players giving us the best chance to win! Entering our 5th season in the league we should not be having a squad full of young inexperienced players in our first team that require the need of having a great teaching, training ground type coach that Terry Burton brags AI is. Sure you want to have some youth in the squad but not so many that you need to cater to their needs in the hiring of the first team coach. By the time they are playing regular first team football in the PL you would hope your first team players are not needing to be trained up and "coached" that's why you employ the likes of AI for your reserve/youth teams so as to prepare them to make that move into the senior squad! But as long as the club won't part ways with KD & DK were not going to be appointing anyone that is established and experienced! I want to see the incriminating photos those two must have of JP doing something very illegal or very embarrassing because nothing else explains why you would keep those two over hiring a solid candidate to give us the best chance to be successful once again!
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1240220/Preston-7-Colchester-0-Jon-Parkin-scores-hat-trick-managerless-Preston-run-riot.html)
He also had moments of success with Wednesday despite taking them down (and SW twice having winding up orders in court through financial problems) and was replaced by Gary Megson who was also sacked. It's not a Guardiolaesque career but if Everton deemed him good enough to hire to develop their youth team (Barkley, Stone, etc) he's got something about him they saw too. It doesn't mean he will be great but he has some ability.
I admit I am having faith in this because I refuse to believe anyone would purposefully try and destroy their own asset so I'm inclined to believe that there MUST be SOMETHING they see that we don't. But I simply cannot hope or wish we do badly to prove a point - I can't even bet against us, it doesn't feel right. I only want this appointment to come off because it means the club will do well, not because I'm delusional.
In my eyes player acquisitions are more important now; it's not rocket science to see that coaches fortunes come down to who's on the pitch getting results. A manager can't single handedly kill player talent and so it's essential we get some good players in and I think anyone who thinks that a coach has more bearing on a players decision to come to a club than money is daft.
(Barkley, Stone, etc)
Could be any number of reasons he wasn't promoted. The first one being maybe Martinez is better than Irvine? Would you pick Clarke over Mourinho? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by saying they picked someone over someone else, there's a lot of people better than others, what difference does it make?And the comments (via Burton) that the staff at Everton would be gutted about losing him!! Really! Fact is I can't recall anybody from Everton even talking about him being a candidate for Moyes job. How do you think Everton fans might respond if the next time the Manager's job at Everton was vacant, their board approached Downing? So are Everton supposed to be on another level to WBA?? I can't recall Albion being beaten by Everton last season and can recall us beating them the season before.
Maybe Everton were looking for a manager not a head coach? It's not rocket science, nor is it proof that he's terrible because he wasn't made manager of Everton - that proves nothing. If he was dreadful Everton would have sacked him from his youth role.
if we win the first 3 games in style he might win me over
In common with the majority, I was a bit underwhelmed and bemused by the appointment of AI, but he's now our Head Coach and we now have the Coaching and Director of Football Team all in place, and now back at work after the post season break.
Like the majority I would say welcome to the Albion and the very best of luck.
The one comment I would make is we have 4 Coaches who I feel will work well as a unit and all of whom, for numerous reasons, will be very anxious for Albion to have a successful season.
The general consensus appears to be that Albion will sink like a stone, clearly that may happen but my own gut feeling is that things could actually work out surprisingly well (relatively speaking), particularly at it is combined with a Director of Football who will have joined the club with his eyes wide open (as a previous employee and long term friend of Roy Hodgson) and will have had a key role in the two new recruits.
No managerial changes are without risk, and on face value this appears to be a greater than usual risk, but to write off the forthcoming season on the back of an unpopular managerial appointment is jumping the gun in my view.
As I say, the key men are back at work and clearly astute judgement in the transfer market and a pro-active stance on recruitment is paramount and the activity over the next couple of months is critical, as is a, hopefully, positive reaction from our key squad members.
The other point, covered of in another thread, is the huge expertise of our new recruits, in the Academy and development of younger players, which in the medium to long term is likely to be a key issue for clubs like Albion (I know we've taken a "hit" with a couple of departures, but there have been positives as well, with a number of young players breaking into the first team squad).
But the blokes been at work for 1 day, and while admittedly the odds appear stacked against him, I wouldn't write off his chances of success just yet.
A harmonious managerial team (or Coaching team in our case) backed by a supportive Director of Football could actually work out for us here.
As always, time will tell.
What would the feeling be if after Clarke's sacking Downing and Keily had stayed in charge and kept us up, there'd have been none of the Mel circus, and then quietly brought in Irvine at the end of the season. Lots of moans and groans, Clarke clone comments, Peace is a tightwad, we're going down etc, certainly, but I don't think there would have been this level of bile and anger, would there? I'm not justifying it, just trying to make sense of it.
I think it's incredibly unsubtle, and frankly insulting that WBA leak Lescott medical on the morning of the presser to divert from disastrous appt.
Shocker.
I think it's incredibly unsubtle, and frankly insulting that WBA leak Lescott medical on the morning of the presser to divert from disastrous appt.
Shocker.
I think it's incredibly unsubtle, and frankly insulting that WBA leak Lescott medical on the morning of the presser to divert from disastrous appt.
Shocker.
It is also half the reason people didn't want to see Mel sacked because they believed they were going to get exciting football.And he would have delivered it, had he been kept on and the club backed him with suitable players during the summer.
And he would have delivered it, had he been kept on and the club backed him with suitable players during the summer.
People missing my point slightly - I think Lescott would be an excellent addition.
My gripe is that WBA have leaked this (along with journo digging) on the morning of the press conference, in ab it to divert some of the attention away.
I'll repeat again - Lescott good signing. Timing of leak, to me, smacks of diversion tactics.
That is quite a theory.
It's not abnormal for us to hear about a transfer the day before it is apparently set to be completed, in fact that is pretty normal for us.
15 minute presser.
"Quick, on and off before we get any difficult questions in front of the cameras."
Paper Q&As much easier to manipulate.
Good press conference, think Irvine will do a good job here.Where can you see the press conference please?
It's good to see us been able to begin to gain some understanding on why he was appointed (coaching and football related issues rather that financial motives).Well its obvious they wouldnt go on national TV and say, Yes we got Alan because he was the cheapest option ??? ??? ???
Well its obvious they wouldnt go on national TV and say, Yes we got Alan because he was the cheapest option ??? ??? ???
How else do you expect to gain an understanding if it is not coming out of the club officially?I don't expect to gain an understanding, because they won't give genuine answers. They hardly ever do in such circumstances.
Stunned at the press conferance ...... was that a media PR manager sitting at the table? Where has he been hiding the last year?
As for Alan Irvine ....... F off !!!
I don't expect to gain an understanding, because they won't give genuine answers. They hardly ever do in such circumstances.
Stunned at the press conferance ...... was that a media PR manager sitting at the table? Where has he been hiding the last year?
As for Alan Irvine ....... F off !!!
Totally uncalled for. The guy applied for the job and was given it, he has done nothing to deserve that kind of comment. Aim your disappointment at those that gave him the job if you feel the need.
Leeds just appointed a guy who was sacked by Forest Green, how on earth did we miss him???? ;)
I think people are getting misled by this 'Head Coach' thing, it's just a term. The 'Head Coach' ,unfortuantly in our case AI will still be responsible for team selection,tactics,substitutions etc, like any other football manager. Obviously Burton and Irvine in the Press Conference where stressing coaching as one the main reasons that got him the job because his record as a manager was failure at both clubs he was at."There wouldn’t be a player who comes in who I don’t want here. I will rubber-stamp all transfers. The role means I will pick the team and I will be trying to identify players, with the help of Terry and the board. It will be like a manager’s job but without the extras like player’s contracts and things like that. There will be a lot more focus on what happens on the training pitch" Alan Irvine - 18/06/2014
Too expensiveI talk to a Leeds fan on the train to work, he took the urine proper on monday / tuesday, what a pleasant journey it was this morning!! 40 minutes flew by!
"There wouldn’t be a player who comes in who I don’t want here. I will rubber-stamp all transfers. The role means I will pick the team and I will be trying to identify players, with the help of Terry and the board. It will be like a manager’s job but without the extras like player’s contracts and things like that. There will be a lot more focus on what happens on the training pitch" Alan Irvine - 18/06/2014
Link: Birmingham Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-bromwich-albion-alan-irvines-7288169)
What a disgrace, I want him to focus on trivial matters.A number of people have been trying to emphasise that he'll be coaching rather than managing and, therefore, what happened at Preston and Sheff Wed is irrelevant. I haven't seen any Preston and Sheff Wed fans complaining about his contract negotation skills, so his match-related performance at those clubs certainly is relevant, as he has now indicated himself. You can spare me the sarcasm too - I haven't directed any towards you.
A number of people have been trying to emphasise that he'll be coaching rather than managing and, therefore, what happened at Preston and Sheff Wed is irrelevant. I haven't seen any Preston and Sheff Wed fans complaining about his contract negotation skills, so his match-related performance at those clubs certainly is relevant, as he has now indicated himself. You can spare me the sarcasm too - I haven't directed any towards you.
It's not directed at you either it's a tongue in cheek response to more positive news, nothing aimed at you apologiesNo worries.
@JamesNursey: Was at #WBA today. After speaking to Irvine & Burton , the 'shock' decision certainly made more sense. Bound to be better than Mel!I'm sure we can still agree on our disdain for James Nursey's ridiculously simplistic put-down of Pepe Mel at least! :D
No worries.
I'm sure we can still agree on our disdain for James Nursey's ridiculously simplistic put-down of Pepe Mel at least! :D
Sheff Wed were in a mess and probably wondering why he took the job but started well they then hit a bad patch where they drew a lot then ultimately went 7 games (i believe) without a win leading to him being sacked, at the time according to the article this report was in they were 7 points of the play offs but only 5 points of relegation but really had to put up with lots of stuff behind the scenesYou're missing that they got relegated from the Championship with him in charge and he was then sacked with them 12th or 13th in League 1 the following season (in January 2011).
He comes across well to be fair and he could actually lure Lescott in, but still can't hide away from his failures at Sheff Wed and Preston. Maybe with a better structure and better players it might work. I will give him a chance and hope he proves me wrong.This quote from The Birmingham Mail wrote by Ally Robertson regarding AI appointment.
In other news, and for Spencer who was fuming over the 15 minute conference and Peace's absence, he was there and answered questions about the hiring of Irvine.You can't help but think he should have been in the press conference if he was there. I didn't expect much from a Tom Ross interview and he didn't disappoint! One obvious question that wasn't asked was "what are you going to do to engage better with the fans?".
http://www.freeradio.co.uk/news/uncategorized/jeremy-peace-exclusive/
This quote from The Birmingham Mail wrote by Ally Robertson regarding AI appointment.
â€And if you look closely at what happened at his previous clubs then the Preston fans were certainly unhappy about his sacking after he had taken them into the play-offs. And at Sheffield Wednesday the club were cutting costs and on a downward spiral before he arrived. He was given precious little time to turn it around.
“He needed a magic wand there.â€
You can't help but think he should have been in the press conference if he was there. I didn't expect much from a Tom Ross interview and he didn't disappoint! One obvious question that wasn't asked was "what are you going to do to engage better with the fans?".
Yes. Someone called Ali Rob's remarks patronising.i asked them to explain as I don't see them that way but I don't think they ever responded (can't remember who it was).It was me and I did respond.
I don't want to stir things, but my Dad's friend used to be involved with Everton behind the scenes and is still a regular face around the place and i believe he's a ST holder still, and he told my Dad that even in the Everton Youth Squads he was regarded as a 3rd rate coach and he wasn't thought of highly by the board at all. He also thinks that is an absolutely disasterous appointment and we're very likely to be relegated.
Why would they keep him on?
CL has said he interviewed Peace too so we may get something more there. Tom might as well have asked what he's having for tea. But that said I don't see the arrogance, ignorance and cluelessness that he's apparently guilty of.A bit harsh on Tom Ross that I don't think he's that clueless.
It was me and I did respond.
Sorry, didn't see it. Do you mind telling me again?I can't honestly remember what I said. Go into my profile, display my posts and you should find it there without too much trouble.
Irvine has said we will need new faces if we are to play the kind of football he likes to play, gulp :o
Anyway besides that Mr Irvine, we need some new faces if we are even to field a side and the subs, bit of a silly statement to start you career off with old boy >:(
In fairness I think he came across well in the interview, and can handle himself better than burton and peace, not sure about his coaching skills though, but we will soon find out.
But why oh why oh why do the press keep saying we are protesting against his appointment, it is NOT not not that, not solely anyway! it is against how peace is running the club and snubbing the fans at the moment. FFS >:(
Am I the only one who's come around to Alan Irvine?
Am I the only one who's come around to Alan Irvine?
Very interesting that he didn't even apply for the job we went in for him.
Seems to be a few who have been sucked in by the club's bullsh*t / PR machine over the last few days.
The overwhelming odds are that Irvine will end up getting sacked, I've not seen or heard anything to convince me otherwise.
The problem is the club hasn't got a PR machine if it did it would probably not appointed Irvine in the first place because the fan reaction was as predictable as it was depressing. A few fans are prepared to give Irvine a chance and you never know they might be right and they are as likely to be right as the doom mongers. I certainly will back him to have a better record than Mel on a points per game basis and I would also back him to be in post this time next year.I don't believe his is the man, as much as I didn't think Clarke or mel were, however he is saying the right things, and if lescott comes off it is a step in the right direction, so we have him and must I suppose bear with it.
I don't believe his is the man, as much as I didn't think Clarke or mel were, however he is saying the right things, and if lescott comes off it is a step in the right direction, so we have him and must I suppose bear with it.
However, I cannot forgive peace for the absolute nightmare and gross incompetence he is dealing with the matter fro me fans perspective, and if lescott doesn't come off and we get off to a bad start, then he and Jenkins will fully deserve the whole lot of rubbish that will be vented his way.
It has gone past enough is enough
Ferdinand and Ramsey have just left their coaching roles at Tottenham - interesting considering they could have done that, saved us some compensation payments and them freeing up money for their own moves.
I certainly will back him to have a better record than Mel on a points per game basisThat won't be a fair comparison, as Mel never got to bring in any players (unless you count Thievy), which also meant he couldn't fully re-vamp the way we played. Ironically, though, we did look at our best when we tried the pressing style that Mel prefers, but the players were unable/unwilling to do it for 90 minutes.
Looks like Leeds Utd have followed our lead, appointing the ex Forest Green manager :o
He was probably on our shortlist.
Terry Burton says we have the best coach in the UK.Bold statement indeed
Terry Burton says we have the best coach in the UK.Bold statement indeedNot unreasonable to expect us to take quality corners and free-kicks in the coming season then!
Not unreasonable to expect us to take quality corners and free-kicks in the coming season then!
Not unreasonable to expect us to take quality corners and free-kicks in the coming season then!
Terry Burton says we have the best coach in the UK.Bold statement indeedNational Express are probably going to sue.
Terry Burton says we have the best coach in the UK.Bold statement indeed
Link: "Irvine - I've got the know-howe" (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvine-ive-got-the-know-howe-1650303.aspx)Don Howe classic example of a great coach but a rubbish manager, I saw his Albion side we didn't score a goal for most games under his command, I think that we lost 12 or 13 on the trot. I hope that you improve on that record Mr Irvine.
If he'd paused to think about it, he might have realised that associating himself with Don Howe might not have been the best thing to do! Let's hope he manages to resist talking in glowing terms about Ron Saunders....
If he was the best coach in the UK or one of the best then I will ask again why didn't Moyes take him to Man Utd instead of Round?
I've read all the posters trying to put a positive spin on the appointment. I tried to get myself to think the same way. I failed. I still think it's an awful appointment. I still think it will end in tears, and sooner rather than later. Don't feel any better than I did when it was announced.
I agree entirely and Peace saying today that he was the preferred choice makes it worse for me. Who the hell does he think that he is kidding?
People were taking the p before the appointment and said we would end up with a cheap bottom of the barrel choice which would promptly be declared the "number one choice all along". This isn't even funny any more.
If he was the best coach in the UK or one of the best then I will ask again why didn't Moyes take him to Man Utd instead of Round?
Link: "Irvine - I've got the know-howe" (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvine-ive-got-the-know-howe-1650303.aspx)
If he'd paused to think about it, he might have realised that associating himself with Don Howe might not have been the best thing to do! Let's hope he manages to resist talking in glowing terms about Ron Saunders....
So do I. I'm not going to a single game next season. This jumped up, arrogant, ignorant moron needs to see how we feel. Hit his bloody pocket.
Hughton suddenly sounds SEXY.
I'm finding out where Pepe Mel goes next season and going to spend the money going over to watch his club.
MAD AS!!!!!!!!
Don Howe coached an England team to the World Cup semi finals - in fact within a glance off Paul Parker's shin of getting to the final!
I'll settle for a coach who associates himself with Don Howe.
Was that not Bobby Robson in charge in 1990?
Was that not Bobby Robson in charge in 1990?
The same Don Howe who came in and said he was going to make Astle a better player, then sold him, tried to make Tony Brown into a completely different type of player to the one who scored for fun before DH arrived.................Oh, and managed to get us relegated, all in the space of 18 months.I'm not going to open up and defend Don Howe as Albion Manager -it's Head Coach we are talking about here.
I saw it with my own eyes, so did Tony Brown. Read his autobiography and his opinion is good enough for me !!
It's been nearly a week since the appointment and when it was announced it is fair to say that it was not a good time to be an Albion fan. Everyone (Me included) was furious with the AI appointment, the way that the club tried to hide it in amongst the England hysteria. We are all annoyed that this JP bull about getting someone in with PL experience and learning from the mistakes of last season and then signing Alan Irvine with none whatsoever.I feel similar to you Runcornbaggie. I was absolutely fuming at first I mean really angry. Since listening to Irvine, the signing of Lescott and the players we are linked with, I have cooled somewhat. To get Lescott is amazing when you think of all the clubs who he could of gone to. I can't see how this cannot be seen as a very good sign. I know I know just as you get excited with the Albion that's when you get kicked in the teeth (a bit like being an England supporter). But what I am saying is that I feel differently to a week ago and if the other players we sign are as good as Lescott I will be very glad that I didn't send my season ticket back. That doesn't mean that all is forgiven with the lack of understanding from the board towards us fans. It is a real blind spot of their's. My only current gripe is I wish that Terry Burton would be a little less silly in his statements regarding Irvine even if he thinks they are true. `they sound a little like Joe Kinear when he became Director of football at Newcastle, someone coincidently who I think worked with Burton in the past.
Since then I for one have kind of simmered a little. Sitting back reading everyone elses comments, looking at other forums. Trying to understand how we can move forward as a football club. I feel a little more inclined now to sit back and see where this all leads, how we start the season, how the signings get on (This is the usual me, I have to say.......wait to see how things go before making judgement)
I have seen the signing today of Joleon Lescott which I think is an amazing signing, and looking at the other players that we are being linked with it is beginning to make me feel a lot better about things, a little more optimistic if you like. I made a comment on Saturday night, along with many others and vented my disappointment and said that I will not give JP any of my money this season, whether that be in the form of match tickets of sales in the club shop (I only go to 4 or 5 games a season now anyway and I always prefer aways but Birthday's and Xmas I always shop at the club shop). I will stick with this.
What I am trying to say in a nutshell is that I may have a little hasty as lets face it, we all love the Albion. I just wish that things were handled a lot better.
I hope that Alan Irvine is a success here and would like to wish him good luck.
If AI looks up to Don Howe and Ray Harford as coaching role models, that doesn't inspire me at all. Although I wasn't watching Albion when they were in charge, the consensus seems to be that we played a very negative, rigid and defensive style under their coaching. Having a defensive discipline is important, but I want to see Albion teams with flair taking the game to their opponents, rather than teams completely fixated on how the opposition will play.We did not have the money or players to excel then. That has a lot to do with it. Howe did not do very well with us and Harford did ok.
Harford did go to Blackburn, but that was later - I'm pretty sure he went to QPR from usYou are correct 58
ALF where are the five or six new recruits
Peace same question also what about kit and sponsor ?
ALF where are the five or six new recruits
Peace same question also what about kit and sponsor ?
Let's give him time before we decide what sort of appointment it is and I don't mean a couple of games.
Before Oct he needs to have won 3 games min before protesters start on Peace those first 6 games on paper we should and need to be gaining points.For me its all about performances.If its anything like Clarkes football towards the end of his reign then i wont be happy.The reports i have heard so far from Sheff Wed fans his football aint pleasing on the eye
I agree with that from a VFM point of view. You want to feel like you're getting a bit of a show put on as well as your team picking up points.I'd love that, I really would, but, one of my best mates is a Wednesday fan. Who thought of him as arrogant, tactically woeful and would always play up other teams strengths almost to the point that he was scared of them. This is the likes of Yeovil. I think the 5 games will be a crucial indicator of how he will do and we need 9pts I just think he maybe in way over his head hope I'm wrong :(
But if it is a bit of a grind at the beginning but we're picking up points I'll go with that and give him the benefit of the doubt. Points on the board first, then we can pretty it up. But fundamentally I agree with you.
Of course if we sprint out of the traps playing like Pele's Brazil then we'll all be laughing.
ALF where are the five or six new recruits
Peace same question also what about kit and sponsor ?
Transfer window only opened today - we have two new additions already.
The kit and sponsors by all accounts all sorted - just a matter of crossing the t's and dotting the i's.
A bit of patience wouldn't go a miss...
You're right of course, Liam - but you can't blame us all for having cabin fever after this last year. People are desperate for some positive messages coming from the club in terms of actions.
Let's face it the last 18 months have been a rollercoaster ride maintained by old Mr Withers from Scooby Doo....
The club have made their positive message - they beat off a host of clubs to sign Joleon Lescott - a top quality, proven centre half in this division. They have also supported that by the steady addition of Craig Gardner.
We're a long way from panic stations as things stand.
i admire you half glass full mentality. personally i think we are stuffed this season.
alan irvine shouldn't be anywhere near this club. he shouldn't be near a top half chumps league team either.
JP has gone for the cheap, yes man option, again.
We've got a threadbare squad and a dire record in the transfer market since Ashworth left. Lescott and Gardner only joined because they are local boys. no decent, proven prem player would touch us with a barge pole. Even though we've been here 5 years.
Deep down, everyone knows it. We're forked.
My glass isn't half full - I think we're in for a struggle.
I agree about Alan Irvine too.
I just don't think in terms of player recruitment we've reached panicked stations yet.
I'll start panicking when we go into August and we still barely have a squad.
The club have made their positive message - they beat off a host of clubs to sign Joleon Lescott - a top quality, proven centre half in this division. They have also supported that by the steady addition of Craig Gardner.
We're a long way from panic stations as things stand.
Can't believe how frustrating it realy is being a baggie. When we signed Jolean Lescott, soon after Alan Irvines appointment, it gave you the up beat feel good factor, what a great signing this is. Since then, its been realy quite drab has'nt it realy. Very disappointing, having missed out on Aaron Cresswell to West Ham, i'm not that confident now, that we can make it happen now. We are missing a quality left and right back, we just hav'nt got anything in the side at all. The reality is that we will be relegated before a ball is kicked. We desperately need 7 quallity players at our club, right back, left back, and a quality stricker, because the players we have, did not do it for us last season.At worst we need to bring in at least 4 more. Two backs, an attacking midfielder, and a striker. Jeremy Preace WAKE UP!!!!.
Just a question for you? How will we be relegated before a ball is kicked?
Through the power of negative thinking, Gerry!
I've been feeling quite doomy and have said plenty of negative stuff. Not gona help is it.
We SERIOUSLY need to do some astute signing this month. I don't think Cresswell would have been right for us at that price.
I've been quite anti-Peace lately. My new stance is as far as I'm concerned he has THIS season, and therefore THIS transfer market - because we only have one a year - to prove he is still right for us. Over to you, sir.
Before every match, Tony Pulis shows his players video clips of all of their opposing players' weaknesses and mistakes. As if to remind his own players that the opposition are human, frail and prone to errors. i.e. don't believe the media hype.
Something we should adopt imo.
Just like Steve Clarke i am utterly bored already listening to him speakWell that's a nice fair start isn't it ? , I've seen your chants in the Alan Irvine section too ....at least give the bloke the chance to lose a few before getting at him.
Just like Steve Clarke i am utterly bored already listening to him speak
Just another boring scotsman whos punching above his weight because he come cheap.Hes out of his depth.No other premier league club and most championships clubs whould have never even given him time of dayMaybe so and if i was a betting man i would go with your view but surely the least we can do is give the bloke a chance ? , JP picked him and in my view he hasn't picked a bad manager yet (yes even Robson/Great Escape). Irvine wasn't even in my top 20 choices but he is here and IMO we just have to get behind him and at least start positive ....if we lose most of the first 10 / 15 games then fair enough he will take the flack and most likely be gone but i'm certainly not going to hound him out before he's had a fair chance . We were quick enough to laugh at Wolves and Villa for doing the very same thing in recent years.......
He will be gone by xmas
Does a nice and passionate voice turn you on ? :oWas Brian Blessed on our list ? :)
I could not give 2 tosses the way he speaks.
Just another boring scotsman whos punching above his weight because he come cheap.Hes out of his depth.No other premier league club and most championships clubs whould have even given him time of day.I was correct about Clarke and i will be spot on about this one too
He will be gone by xmas
So then a question for those who think Irvine will be a disaster.
What will you people deem as been a success for him?
So then a question for those who think Irvine will be a disaster.
What will you people deem as been a success for him?
I was correct about Clarke and i will be spot on about this one too
Just like Steve Clarke i am utterly bored already listening to him speak
How many more times.Clarke came in on the crest of Roys wave, his surf went flat in the november and with the help of Lukaku and the rubbish below us we finished at the lofty height of 8th.
How many games from November 2012 up to May 2013 did we win.The trend continued and he got sacked 6 months later.Irvine dont have the umph from the previous coach that Clarke had. We will see but my bet is Irvine will be gone by xmas
I find it crazy how many of our fans give Steve Clarke no credit whatsoever for our highest ever premiership finish. when we finished 8th that season did everybody say it was down to RH? If anyone else can remember please tell me....
By your logic it wasnt Moyes that failed at Old Trafford he just inherited a bad team from fergie, Pochettinos good work at soton was down to adkins. for the first 6months (when we were actually playing well and getting points) Lukaku was on the bench and Clarke was probably a major reason why we got Lukaku in the first place down to his chelsea connections.
Roy instilled good habits into our players through his coaching and experience, that was already in the players heads when Clarke came in. He then proceded to instill his doctrine into the players different coach different methods. Roys worked Clarkes didn't.
Same as Moyes and Fergie. Pochettino carried on from where Adkins left off.
Clarke got us higher than Hodgson ever did. As a young supporter Clarke gave me my best season as an albion fan but for some reason it seems people just want to forget it ever happened and slag the bloke off.
anyway back to Irvine....will be interesting to hear the reaction of the fans when they announce him on the first game
Clarke got sacked five games after that Chelsea game where we got cheated by Ramires. We were 9th in the table at that time and I'd say that the majority of Albion fans would have agreed he was doing a good job. I still think he was sacked too early but the summer transfer window did a lot of damage and his persistence to sign Anelka and Sinclair probably didn't help him either. I hope the fans give Irvine a great reception and give him a fair chance because he may surprise a few people.I think Clarke may still be here if we had won that game, it just seemed to destroy him! Remember his interview after the game and he was distraught and never recovered. This affected his ability to lift the players and the writing was on the wall.
Clarke got sacked five games after that Chelsea game where we got cheated by Ramires. We were 9th in the table at that time and I'd say that the majority of Albion fans would have agreed he was doing a good job. I still think he was sacked too early but the summer transfer window did a lot of damage and his persistence to sign Anelka and Sinclair probably didn't help him either. I hope the fans give Irvine a great reception and give him a fair chance because he may surprise a few people.
Everyone that I spoke to when we signed these two players was delighted that we had signed them. At the time they were both wonderful signings. As it turns out they were not so wonderful but hind sight is wonderful thing!
Hand on heart/stack of bibles I said at the time he was an awful signing but thought he would have contributed more. I get no pleasure from saying I told you so!
I was more impressed with Sinclair but obviously sitting on the bench week in week out, and sometimes not even doing that, for a whole eason takes its toll.
I was pleased with the Anelka signing at the time because I thought even if he wasn't able to play we could use his knowledge and experience to bring on some of the younger professionals. Misread that one!
How many more times.Clarke came in on the crest of Roys wave, his surf went flat in the november and with the help of Lukaku and the rubbish below us we finished at the lofty height of 8th.
How many games from November 2012 up to May 2013 did we win.The trend continued and he got sacked 6 months later.Irvine dont have the umph from the previous coach that Clarke had. We will see but my bet is Irvine will be gone by xmas
Amazing that you will not attribute any of our success that season to Steve Clarke.
A Steve Clarke who had us playing far superior football to anything Roy Hodgson had us playing - infact, for many supporters who are under the age of 30 it was probably some of the best football they have ever witnessed from a West Brom side. Albion were a well oiled machine under Hodgson but Clarke for a few months at least took us a bit further before one particular incident in January stole the headlines and in my opinion was a major disruption throughout the remainder of that season.
And as for Lukaku - that is the man who was brought in by Steve Clarke to score goals who throughout our most successful period that season spent the majority of it sitting on the bench. Even if you had taken away Lukaku's goals we would have been clear of relegation and would have had another successful season in the Premier League.
Enjoy it Alan because you won't have another birthday at the Albion.
Whos he off to? England, Chelsea, Man United? ;D
Enjoy it Alan because you won't have another birthday at the Albion.
When we appointed Irvine I was fuming as was a lot of us, but since he came in he bought in Lescott, Baird, and seb, I know he might not have got them himself but he's played a part in them, and to be honest I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do!
Nothing like a positive attitude.
Good to hear some people are going to give him a chance which is quite the opposite of what was happening when he was appointed.
Good to hear some people are going to give him a chance which is quite the opposite of what was happening when he was appointed.
Good to hear some people are going to give him a chance which is quite the opposite of what was happening when he was appointed.
Give it a rest eh.
The overwhelming response when Irvine was appointed was of surprise and disappointment, understandably so in my opinion. All the Albion fans I've spoken to agree to varying extent, but not one has said they won't give him a chance. People have chastised the decision, not the man.
He'll be given a chance given there is no real option for fans however a defeat to Sunderland and the knives will be well and truly out.
To be fair mate, there were many dissenting voices on here & not much 'we'll give him a chance' in the early days after the appointment & I would say that referring to the new head coach as Alan Irvine was disrespectfully aimed at the man.
Give it a rest eh.
The overwhelming response when Irvine was appointed was of surprise and disappointment, understandably so in my opinion. All the Albion fans I've spoken to agree to varying extent, but not one has said they won't give him a chance. People have chastised the decision, not the man.
After one game? Fans don't have to be happy with the appointment but they can give him a fair chance. We saw how great our support could be under Mel's reign and it would be disappointing to not give a man who's going to work extremely hard to do well here a chance.
I would suggest the vast majority of those voices were aimed at the decision and the people who made it - mine certainly was. As for the Alan Irvine think, I've not seen too much of it. To be honest, I'm pretty sure I said something similar when I heard the news such was the shock. I was chatting to someone who knows quite a bit about what happens up the Albion and they were saying that this appointment came out of nowhere and couldn't understand it.
Surprise and disappointment? Anger and arrogance more like! Some muppet on here even emailed the Everton academy begging they didn't release him from his contract. Things like that are hardly a vote of confidence are they??
Yes you are correct there were many dissatisfied with Peace but there were plenty who disrespected and ridiculed Irvine at the same time too. That is hardly giving him a chance from the start.
Back to the general transfer rumours could someone with a little more knowledge explain why Rodwell has barely played for City over two years? I haven't followed his career closely enough to know what has limited his first team appearances. Too much competition or too many injuries?
And that Oldbury is the understatement of the year !
I wasn't overly keen when Megson was appointed but same thing happy to give him a chance and that bloke did okay for us.
Arrogance? how so?
I wouldn't say Irvine the man has been disrespected or ridiculed, his achievements and credentials on the other hand...
loose the first few winnable games and my venom will be at JP for appointing this head coach in the first place.Irvine cant hep it being out of his depth.JP should have aimed higher and not third divisionWhat do you class as winnable games, aren't they all or are you going to be condescending to our opposition as fans have been to us in the past? Surely if we have made such bad decisions and will be relegated then none of our games will be winnable?
loose the first few winnable games and my venom will be at JP for appointing this head coach in the first place.Irvine cant hep it being out of his depth.JP should have aimed higher and not third division
Yes, yes you really can't wait to get your bed sheets out, we get it.
For me it STILL doesnt make sense. If AI is the right man for the job and such an outstanding candidate as a brilliant coach now why wasnt he appointed instead of Pepe Mel!!?? or has he improved so much since December?My feeling is that we were turned down by our no 1 choice(and possibly others) which left the board desperate after a lengthy spell with nobody at the helm.
I will say again i just dont see what the bloke has achieved to get this job and neither it would seem can anybody else as he hasnt been a head honcho anywhere for a number of years. Obviously want to be wrong but i think this is just a disaster waiting to happen >:(
I believe Pepe Mel was recommended by McDonough who's now gone. The criteria this time was to get a great coach who can work well with players on the training ground and Irvine fit the bill.
This i dont understand , He was were only coaching kids at Everton so if Matinez thought he was great i am sure he would have been part of his first team set up. such a great coach he took Sheff Wed down playing not so great football. Baffled by the word great to be honest
He had his opportunity after coaching with Moyes and failed at 2 lower league clubs.What right does he have to coach a premier league club
Martinez brought in his own people from Wigan as his coaching staff. Irvine was obviously doing a good job and trusted with the Academy, I believe they finished U-18s Premier League Champions. His role here is Head Coach rather than manager so it differs with his previous jobs.
I think he needs to win two out of those first three games to keep the fans on side, loose all three and oh boy!
Alan Irvine having a whine about the full back situation. Should shut up whining and be grateful he has been given such a position! The full backs will arrive...Give him a break!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alan-irvine-reveals-frustrations-west-7439651 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alan-irvine-reveals-frustrations-west-7439651)
Alan Irvine having a whine about the full back situation. Should shut up whining and be grateful he has been given such a position! The full backs will arrive...
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alan-irvine-reveals-frustrations-west-7439651 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alan-irvine-reveals-frustrations-west-7439651)
Alan Irvine having a whine about the full back situation. Should shut up whining and be grateful he has been given such a position! The full backs will arrive...
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alan-irvine-reveals-frustrations-west-7439651 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alan-irvine-reveals-frustrations-west-7439651)
He can't win really, if he didn't complain about lack of options available to him people accuse him of being a yes man for Peace and when he does say something you come on here saying he should keep his mouth shut. Quite frankly he is on to a loser here with 'supporters' acting like this.
Other than a RB I really can't see us signing any more players before the season starts.
If that happens then the club will have failed, the start to our season is going to be vital given the fixtures.
Alan Irvine having a whine about the full back situation. Should shut up whining and be grateful he has been given such a position! The full backs will arrive...Good on Irvine for saying it. It's a well-trodden path for our previous managers and head coaches of course. The trip to America is supposed to be the key period when we work a lot on plans and tactics for the season, yet we're embarking on that trip with (by my reckoning) at least 4 first choice players not yet signed and as many as 3 or 4 other key squad members yet to be recruited. That will restrict what can be achieved on the trip significantly and the Club has no-one else to blame but itself for the position that we're in.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alan-irvine-reveals-frustrations-west-7439651 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alan-irvine-reveals-frustrations-west-7439651)
Not just complaining about lack of full-backs though is he? He is complaining about being short on the wings and up front too, do you disagree with what he is saying? I'm as frustrated about our lack of options as he obviously is, as for saying they will arrive that may be true but when? We need players to be settled in and know how the manager wants to play, if they arrive at the end of the window that isn't going to happen.
He can't win really, if he didn't complain about lack of options available to him people accuse him of being a yes man for Peace and when he does say something you come on here saying he should keep his mouth shut. Quite frankly he is on to a loser here with 'supporters' acting like this.
Good on Irvine for saying it. It's a well-trodden path for our previous managers and head coaches of course. The trip to America is supposed to be the key period when we work a lot on plans and tactics for the season, yet we're embarking on that trip with (by my reckoning) at least 4 first choice players not yet signed and as many as 3 or 4 other key squad members yet to be recruited. That will restrict what can be achieved on the trip significantly and the Club has no-one else to blame but itself for the position that we're in.
The first few games of next season will be vital for a number of reasons, so it's not OK to leave it until August 31st to bring several players in.
Completley agree.
Does every pre season have to be this disjointed?
8 players from attacking positions have left the club since January and as yet none have been brought in.
Complete waste of a pre season tour as things stand.
I havent forgiven the club for the complete farce they caused in the January window either.....
Match wise it's a waste of time anyway, they could take me and you up front and we'd give that opposition a game.
In all my time of following sports of any kind. Irvine is the most underwhelming/worrying signing I can remember from a coaching or first team player perspective.
I hope he and Peace prove me wrong (and in all fairness Peace has done this before), but I am very worried about this coming season.
It's such a weird appointment that all I can hope for is that it somehow, magically, works.
Loose the first 2 winnable home games and JP i am sure will be made aware.Totally uninspiring appointment but in its favour i think all the coaches together could work well with the players in good harmony
Every game is winnable. And losable. Clarke survived by winning a few easy to lose games. Early doors anyone can beat anyone really, it's when the table takes shape you know who you SHOULD be beating as it's relative on league position at that instant in time.
i understand what you say but we do need to hit the ground running espescially with our run in
I think the point is that he WILL not be given ten games, whether he SHOULD be or not is another matter.
He will 100% get ten games..
I mean from the fans not the club mate.
O sorry, ye I understand what you mean. If he loses his first two, the fans will be on his back big time. So important to get off to a good start.No !! the fans who want to voice displeasure IF we lose those games will NOT be on Irvines back, they'll be on JP's back.................the buck stops with him, wasn't that his quote ? No point in booing Irvine, he wont be to blame, he didn't ask for the job, JP asked him remember !!??
No !! the fans who want to voice displeasure IF we lose those games will NOT be on Irvines back, they'll be on JP's back.................the buck stops with him, wasn't that his quote ? No point in booing Irvine, he wont be to blame, he didn't ask for the job, JP asked him remember !!??
Logically yes but in reality it will be Irvine who gets the pelters. If we start badly he'll be put under severe pressure very early. We didn't want him and still don't. A couple of defeats from the first 3 games we'll be baying for blood.
Most Albion fans are prepared to give him a chance, even the ones who were originally calling him Alan F****************** Irvine, why can't you?
Most Albion fans are prepared to give him a chance, even the ones who were originally calling him Alan F****************** Irvine, why can't you?
Really? When did you poll all Albion fans?
You'll see how much of a chance he is given if things start badly mate.
Honestly can anyone see us having done this much positivity this summer with signings and an improved club camaraderie had motormouth Sherwood in charge?
Honestly can anyone see us having done this much positivity this summer with signings and an improved club camaraderie had motormouth Sherwood in charge?
Without doubt there is degree of humility and honesty about Alan Irvine that could never have been forthcoming from Sherwood. I think this bodes well for us as a team and for us as supporters. (And yes i did say Alan)
I detect levels of admiration for what has been achieved by JP and the crew since our dog poo of a season and the soap opera we became on and off the pitch last year.
Total hats off to JP, he was poo and he admitted it and look how far we have come since May. I for one feel a level of confidence and above all integrity that has been restored at the club. I think Alan Irvine has contributed to that.
To be honest after following the ups and downs of the last 60 years , what matters to me above all else, above league position, is the heart and soul of our Club and the way we behave. For me its as more about how we do, then it is about what we do.
The Mirror and Mr Savage can go take a flying feck at themselves, we are the Albion, we are force to be reckoned with, we represent the grass roots of top flight football, we don't need stupid money we don't need foreign investment.
I believe we are seeing a real sea change in our club, a change for the better, a change that we need to support , in the manner we always do....better then anyone else.
As a club, our pride and our self respect was taken away last year......my view is that its back. And God help anyone who tries to take it away this year....
I didn't say ALL Albion fans, I think as you highlighted the word 'most' you would have realised that ::) I was merely commenting on the change of tone in many (thats MANY, not to be confused with ALL) supporters opinions following the initial 'shock' of Irvines appointment, you were the one attempting to speak for all Albion fans with your "WE didn't want him & still don't" post.
Bit like your perpetual criticism of Dorrans (despite his form back end of the season) why can't you cut AI some slack?
I believe we are seeing a real sea change in our club, a change for the better, a change that we need to support , in the manner we always do....better then anyone else.
As a club, our pride and our self respect was taken away last year......my view is that its back. And God help anyone who tries to take it away this year....
No !! the fans who want to voice displeasure IF we lose those games will NOT be on Irvines back, they'll be on JP's back.................the buck stops with him, wasn't that his quote ? No point in booing Irvine, he wont be to blame, he didn't ask for the job, JP asked him remember !!??
You said most. The only way to determine if most people do something is to ask all the people? It's easy maths mate.
As to the we, just meant me and my old man who I go the game with. Cheers though.
Without doubt there is degree of humility and honesty about Alan Irvine that could never have been forthcoming from Sherwood. I think this bodes well for us as a team and for us as supporters. (And yes i did say Alan)
I detect levels of admiration for what has been achieved by JP and the crew since our dog poo of a season and the soap opera we became on and off the pitch last year.
Total hats off to JP, he was poo and he admitted it and look how far we have come since May. I for one feel a level of confidence and above all integrity that has been restored at the club. I think Alan Irvine has contributed to that.
To be honest after following the ups and downs of the last 60 years , what matters to me above all else, above league position, is the heart and soul of our Club and the way we behave. For me its as more about how we do, then it is about what we do.
The Mirror and Mr Savage can go take a flying feck at themselves, we are the Albion, we are force to be reckoned with, we represent the grass roots of top flight football, we don't need stupid money we don't need foreign investment.
I believe we are seeing a real sea change in our club, a change for the better, a change that we need to support , in the manner we always do....better then anyone else.
As a club, our pride and our self respect was taken away last year......my view is that its back. And God help anyone who tries to take it away this year....
It's way too early to say we are vindicated after last season's flop:What's to say we won't sign a winger and another striker by the 16th, have a little faith I think Brown and Lescott are massive step ups in quality as is our fullbacks compared to last season.
We have a new head coach that is not only unproven at our level, but a known failure at lower levels. That doesn't mean he is guaranteed to fail at our level but it doesn't exactly point to a bright future necessarily.
We have still don't have a complete team. Unless we are prepared to accept another season of struggle our remaining incoming recruits, preferrable at least two of them, need to be a significant step up in talent and quality to what we have ie cutting edge talent which we have lacked for some time. Brown may be promising but he could as easily be a flop as a success. Our Costa Rican defender has so far only joined on paper and it may be that we won't get him.
If we start badly he'll be put under severe pressure very early. We didn't want him and still don't.
As to the we, just meant me and my old man who I go the game with.
We best hope the both of you don't start badly then! ;D
What's to say we won't sign a winger and another striker by the 16th, have a little faith I think Brown and Lescott are massive step ups in quality as is our fullbacks compared to last season.
I'd like to think our fans will support Irvine because the majority of Albion fans are not fickle and won't turn on him after three games. How about we support him like we did with Mel, we saw how much are support made a difference at the end of last season.
Irvine's detractors usually justify their positions by pointing to his CV -- specifically, to his two previous managerial positions.
Here are the records for Irvine and the managers who preceded and followed him ("pct" is the percentage of points gained from points possible):
Preston North End (Championship) per game
W D L pts pct GF GA GF GA
Paul Simpson (6/06 to 11/07) 25 14 23 89 .478 79 73 1.27 1.18
Alan Irvine (11/07 to 12/09) 40 24 35 144 .485 127 119 1.28 1.20
Darren Ferguson (1/10 to 12/10) 16 19 34 67 .324 86 123 1.25 1.78
Looks fairly ordinary to me -- not a smashing success, but certainly not a failure. Obviously they started leaking goals when he left.
His time at Sheffield Wednesday was half a season in the Championship and half a season in League One, so looking at those two seasons (same leagues, same durations):
2009/10 Sheffield Wednesday (Championship) per game
W D L pts pct GF GA GF GA
Brian Laws (sacked 13/12) 4 6 11 18 .286 23 35 1.10 1.67
Alan Irvine (hired 8/1) 7 7 9 28 .406 24 30 1.04 1.30
2010/11 Sheffield Wednesday (League One) per game
W D L pts pct GF GA GF GA
Alan Irvine (sacked 3/2) 10 5 11 35 .449 41 35 1.58 1.35
Gary Megson (hired 4/2) 6 5 9 23 .383 26 32 1.30 1.60
Am I missing something? This isn't exactly the colossal failure I keep reading about.
oh and i think most of us got behind Mel because of his football phylosophy intent.
Hardly successful either though. Two of the 'bigger' teams in that league who were expected to be promoted.I didn't say he was a great success, but Sheffield Wednesday were on the verge of being wound up in the last half of 2010. Using those 26 games in League One to discard him as unqualified seems quite unreasonable.
He failed in League 1. Shouldn't be anywhere near our job.
Peace is making some big moves this summer and he seems to be getting them right apart from this one. Time will tell and I hope I'm wrong.
Looking at those numbers, I'd expect a return to very conservative, unentertaining football.
like i say lets see the style of football he brings to the table
The only games we saw with us trying to play his high pressing philosophy we looked doomed. Virtually none of our players suited the way he wanted to play so we reverted to a more tried and tested approach to give us a chance of staying up and quite frankly we got a little lucky.please tell me how it makes perfect sense?'He has never been in charge of a Premier league team and he hasnt been in charge at first team level for a number of years sorry i just dont understand the appointment and doubt i ever will. Just a thought but the same week we appointed Irvine Brighton appointed Hyppia,who hadnt coached but had played at premier league level and had done pretty well in his Bundesliga job,now that appointment i may just have got my head round!
All Mel did was help galvanise us fans, We were turning on players and coaches and he was someone we all got behind. Looking back I think it was the right thing for the club and Mel himself to go our separate ways but I don't think you will find one person who would have chosen Irvine even though from a coaching stand point it makes perfect sense but from an actual management standpoint it makes no sense given his record.
I admire your support for him Legend but there is now way he is qualified to be head coach of West Bromwich Albion.I hope he does well because he comes accross alot better than Clarke or MelHow do you know he's not qualified?.........you're qualified to offer an opinion it seems
How do you know he's not qualified?.........you're qualified to offer an opinion it seems
I honestly can't understand why this thread is still open . Alan Irvine applied for a job and got it . His track record isn't important now is it . He has got the job and there is no mileage in moaning . True fans should now get behind him , the club and the players . Moral of the story is moan about things you can change . I hope he does well and in 12 months time all the negative moaners have been proved wrong .
please tell me how it makes perfect sense?'He has never been in charge of a Premier league team and he hasnt been in charge at first team level for a number of years sorry i just dont understand the appointment and doubt i ever will. Just a thought but the same week we appointed Irvine Brighton appointed Hyppia,who hadnt coached but had played at premier league level and had done pretty well in his Bundesliga job,now that appointment i may just have got my head round!
I think no matter what happens AI will NOT get a decent chance here from the fans. From day 1 he has not won more than 30% of the fans over as "they" dont see him as good enough.
I am happy to say that I am in the 70% bracket and he SHOULD NEVER have been given this chance at our prestigious club! JP is the bloke that needs convincing though and not me!
if we win our first 6, and are playing attacking, entertaining football , with organised solid defensive displays, I'll give him a chance :)If he studied YAM YAM he may just............. The top one however!!!!!!!!!!
sadly , i made my feelings known when he was appointed, and the scenario I paint above is as likely as Steve Bull getting a PhD.
Here we go yet again with you. You say Irvine is out of his depth before the season has started and saying give it to Downing ? Didn't you say in pre season if Downing gets the job you wouldn't renew ?
Like I said you have no backbone.
Ted is totally out of his depth.Just give it to DowningAll part of the grand plan perhaps ;D ;D ;D
laugh out loud
Yes i didnt want Downing but he is most definitely a better option than a failed league one coach
It is a shocking appointment IMO but I do feel a bit sorry for him. He's got a disjointed squad with big holes in it. Most managers would struggle here at the moment. We are desperate for some quality.
It is absolutely vital that we pick up several points in the first month or so when we steer clear of the top six teams. If not we will be deep in the mire with or without Irvine. My fingers are crossed that Irvine will prove us doubters wrong.
I, like others, have tried to support Alan Irvine although I thought from the outset that it was a ridiculous appointment.
Yes, Irvine has had to deal with injuries but there is no method, no pace, no idea and the defending is pathetic.
The team looks devoid of ideas and the books stops with the coaching staff.
What worries me is that JP will give Irvine at least 10 games so that people can't say 'I told you so' if he were to sack him after four or five.
Irvine is a good coach, of that I've no doubt.
West Bromwich Albion 'Manager'? Nah not for me, thank you.........
We haven't had a 'Manager' since Tony Mowbray.
Exactly my point.
Although we appoint Head Coaches, you still need somebody who's going to make managerial decisions at crucial times.
I'm not interested how good a coach he is, we already know that.
I want to know if he'll be able to make the BIG decisions on a Saturday afternoon where his coaching methods/skills count for very little.
Invariably, thus far, I believe the answer to that will be no.
Roy H was head coach, but was a Manger in the past and knew exactly what was required when things were going wrong.
You can't keep appointing 'Number 2' type coaches. It simply doesn't work. That's the point I'm making.
Agree????
Manager or Head Coach, doesn't really matter. AI picks the team and is therefore responsible for the players, formations and results.
It does matter though:
A Manager runs the club from top to bottom, puts in his own scouting network, manages the budget and everything.
A Head Coach tells Burton where he feels the squad is lacking, the player database is then referred to. Head Coach has no say on where the money goes, doesn't have a scouting team, can't bring in his own staff. The Head Coach just trains and picks the team.
The sooner everyone knows the difference between the two roles the better.
I do know the difference - I'm saying that when those players cross the white line, he holds the same responsiblities as a proper designated 'Manager'.
If thats not the case, then me or you may as well do it because nobody will be responsible for anything.
Burton/Garlick/Day/Irvine and the likes will blame each other.
Irvine proved that with the 'I didn't see Ideye aside from a DVD' quote.
That translates to 'If Ideye is s**t, don't blame me'.
Ridiculous model to work in.
I said that a few months ago to be honest. Theres too many chiefs, we need someone out there to call the shots. There doesnt seem to be any ownership overall with clear authority because the role of Manager has been watered down.
If a player is out of line, who gives him a rollocking? Irvine? Then what if Burton gets called in and agrees with the player?
As you say, it's ridiculous. However, it is what it is and that is why people need to get their head around the different roles.
I, like others, have tried to support Alan Irvine although I thought from the outset that it was a ridiculous appointment.
Yes, Irvine has had to deal with injuries but there is no method, no pace, no idea and the defending is pathetic.
The team looks devoid of ideas and the books stops with the coaching staff.
What worries me is that JP will give Irvine at least 10 games so that people can't say 'I told you so' if he were to sack him after four or five.
Irvine is a good coach, of that I've no doubt.
West Bromwich Albion 'Manager'? Nah not for me, thank you.........
Eh? You haven't tried to support him at all. The season hasn't even started and your posting this.
Oh so you think everything is ok do you?
I hope I'm proved wrong but if the past three games are anything to go by, next Saturday is going to be a laugh.....for all the wrong reasons!!
Well i'd at least wait until the season, y'know, actually starts.
Also worth noting that every single one of your posts is about Irvine (negatively) which is in itself quite odd given your apparent efforts to support him.
All of my posts are not all directed at Alan Irvine at all - there are other names on there that I've mentioned.
As for supporting him, AI will get every bit of support from me this Saturday and beyond.
If he gets things wrong, I will say so - like he already has done.
Why say 4 weeks ago 3-52 was the best formation then play a flat back four in every game since.
And don't even say about injuries. Baird/Wisdom/O'Neil/Olsson and Dawson are all available to try and work on the shape.
Has he done it? No.
I do feel for AI in some respects but I won't accept people blindly defending him out of sympathy.
He gets paid and paid very well. Therefore he needs to be getting the big decisions right accordingly.
He didn't say 3-5-2 was our best formation at all. He was clearly asked if he'd use it and just said on occassions we might.If this is true Dan, why have them in the first place?
And again, friendlies, not a big deal, not a deal at all actually. As close to irrelevant as results and performances get. Though with each passing season the importance of friendlies seems to increase to fans.
Too much made of the head coach/manager differential . If you read Redknapps book for example he says how little outside of players and playing matters managers get involved with these days compared to earlier in his career. To me head coach is a bit of a cop out and the very name of the title would seem to dilute authority.Redknapp wrote a book? I thought he stated in court he couldn't write a cheque. I think you have been done. :P
Whichever way you dress it up i believe Irvine to be a very poor appointment.The minimum i would expect to see from his teams in pre season is good defensive organisation, by all accounts there has been little sign of this having been unable to keep clean sheets against even the most moderate of opposition >:(
If this is true Dan, why have them in the first place?
They are important to help a team gel, get back to match fitness, trial "squad" players and prepare for the up and coming season! You would expect to see improvement throughout the games played.
OF COURSE THEY ARE IMPORTANT! ???
It does matter though:
A Manager runs the club from top to bottom, puts in his own scouting network, manages the budget and everything.
A Head Coach tells Burton where he feels the squad is lacking, the player database is then referred to. Head Coach has no say on where the money goes, doesn't have a scouting team, can't bring in his own staff. The Head Coach just trains and picks the team.
The sooner everyone knows the difference between the two roles the better.
Friendlies should be about fitness, formation and confidence, I fail to see how we have gained any of these from the dire performances (not results) we have seen thus far or how 7 days will now change anything.
Regardless of new signings, 2 of which are not yet even in the country, the line up on Saturday will be very similar to Porto and they were awful, tired (by Ollsen's own admission) and devoid of ideas or confidence. What will change between now and Saturday?
It does matter though:
A Manager runs the club from top to bottom, puts in his own scouting network, manages the budget and everything.
A Head Coach tells Burton where he feels the squad is lacking, the player database is then referred to. Head Coach has no say on where the money goes, doesn't have a scouting team, can't bring in his own staff. The Head Coach just trains and picks the team.
The sooner everyone knows the difference between the two roles the better.
do you actually believe that?
well Garlick is doing nowt but legal stuff now and got blamed for most of Clarke and McDonohugh (or however you spell it :) ) when he didn't have a lot to do with the picking of players, TB is doing a bit more of what Ashworth did and Day is an addition,Whatever the ins and outs Irvine is responsible for picking the team, formation and motivation. Pre season has shown no sign whatsoever that he has had any impact with regard to either of these elements.
but trust me the Head Coach does have a say, i think the thing is how much
The Jury has been chosen, but not entered the courtroom yet. Its a bit premature to pass sentence yet.What is the case for the defence?
What is the case for the defence?
What positives can we take from our pre-season performances?
I want to be upbeat I really do and when I take my seat on Saturday I want nothing more than to shout from the rafters and cheer us to victory.
Give me something, anything!! :'(
What is the case for the defence?
What positives can we take from our pre-season performances?
I want to be upbeat I really do and when I take my seat on Saturday I want nothing more than to shout from the rafters and cheer us to victory.
Give me something, anything!! :'(
I never wanted Irvine , I haven't been impressed with Pre season but that said i think we need to pull together the best we can and get behind them from the off . Lets face it the Press , Sky and others are waiting in the shadows to stick the knife into our club . Nothings easy in the top flight and it's possible to get into a crisis within three games , I'd argue us the fans played a major part in staying up last year and I'd suggest we will be needed again starting Saturday .
Give Irvine a chance , let those new players feature and get behind them the best we can .
no case for the defence required as yet, the offences have not been read to the court.I know that, what I asked for was something positive to take to my seat at 15:00 on Saturday.
saturday 17:00 is when the court convenes.
I dont know about a Jury, a priest might be more appropriate.Get your prayer mats out folks
There will be a priest sitting on our bench - Father Ted lookalike Alan Irvine ;D ;D ;D
There will be a priest sitting on our bench - Father Ted lookalike Alan Irvine ;D ;D ;D
Father Ted could be the last away day theme when Irvine leads us to FA Cup glory and top 10.
I realy hope your right and yes that stands a bloody good chance if we finish comfortable
Irvine won't take us down officially, by that I mean he won't be at the helm if we drop. Peace won't allow it to happen. 10 years hard work to allow his investment to take a hammering now, I don't think so (that's not a knock at Peace, I think he has done a good job running us as a business).
If we go down, it will be under another manager who Peace brings in an attempt to turn the season around.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/olsson-hails-irvine-approach-ahead-of-new-season-1821217.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/olsson-hails-irvine-approach-ahead-of-new-season-1821217.aspx)
JONAS Olsson is enjoying life under Albion head coach Alan Irvine as the new Barclays Premier League season prepares to kick off.
The defender, 31, is entering his seventh year in a Baggies shirt, the sixth of which spent plying his trade in England’s top tier.
Olsson insists he is ready for the start of the 2014/15 campaign and feels the Black Country club have got a good pre-season under their belt.
And the experienced Sweden international has enjoyed his time to date spent working under Irvine, who was handed the reins at The Hawthorns in mid-June.
“He is very respected and I’ve only got good things to say about him so far,†Olsson said.
“He’s a nice man, a good coach and a nice person, which for me is very important.
“It’s vital to have a gaffer who you really respect as a person so you want to go those extra yards for him.
“It’s only positive feelings so far.
“He is very hands-on in training and I like that.â€
Albion open the new season at home to Sunderland this Saturday (ko 3pm).
It is the fourth successive Premier League campaign the Baggies have started on home soil.
And Olsson, who found the net against FC Porto in the club’s final pre-season friendly at the weekend, is happy to be getting things underway in front of what will be strong support.
“It’s nice to start at home,†he said. “That’s always a good feeling, but there are no easy games.
“Hopefully we can get off to a good start.â€
He'll be on TalkSport in the morning:
Alan Brazil â€@sportsbreakfast 9m
From 6am Dominic Cork alongside Al and they'll be speaking to West Brom boss Alan Irvine, @EmileHeskeyUK and more
He'll be on TalkSport in the morning:
Alan Brazil â€@sportsbreakfast 9m
From 6am Dominic Cork alongside Al and they'll be speaking to West Brom boss Alan Irvine, @EmileHeskeyUK and more
Anyone catch the Irvine interview on talksport ? Any positives ?
I'm fearing the worst this season
If Irvine is here by Xmas I will be very shocked
Heard his interview this morning and he comes across well. I really do wish him all the best because he seems like a good guy and a real football man.
It is quite clear that Alan Irvine is facing his first game in charge with some trepidation, and he seems to already be pleading that he has not chosen some of our signings, and we have suffered with injuries, late arrivals of signings, and more signings needed. I don't think these are excuses, but they are genuine concerns which we all share. Please lets give the guy a chance at least until he has a full complement of players to select from. I am hoping that if it all goes wrong on Saturday, there will be no booing and anti-Irvine chants, we are surely better than that ....................are we not?I dont think anyone on Saturday will have a go at AI during the match & you can put what you like down tot he team etc but the fact remains, if we dont get enough points at the start of the season (first 5/6 games) then with our Christmas & new year fixtures along with the end of the season run in we will be SCREWED!
It's up to Irvine to prove to us that he's not a failed lower league manager.
6 games he's got to win the fans over imo, before they/we turn on him.
That would be embarrassing and dingle-esque
Do people really think 6 games is enough to judge him as head coach?As much as I agree "is 6 games enough" However they are our "easiest" 6 games (ish) of the season, if we cant at least compete in those how do you expect us to do better in the harder games?
Pre-season has been far from ideal preparation with us having to rebuild a squad after letting so many players go and we aren't finished in that respect. We have had delays with new signings costing them valuable time on the training field and friendlies as well as being hit with injuries to a few key players. The transfer window will still be open for the first three of those games and the powers that be are struggling to get the players in that we desperately need. I would guess that the starting XI from the Porto game will look very different to the one that starts that 6th game against Burnley.
I know the fixtures haven't been too kind in hindsight but there will be surprise results for everyone again this season.
As much as I agree "is 6 games enough" However they are our "easiest" 6 games (ish) of the season, if we cant at least compete in those how do you expect us to do better in the harder games?
But is it all going to be down to him if we can't get as many points as we expect from those games? Our pre-season has been very disrupted and none of it is down to Irvine. It isn't his fault we have had injuries to key players, not signed the players we desperately need or the way the fixtures came out. When we have a fully fit squad with a couple of decent attacking options coming in I expect us to be able to compete with most clubs with the exception of maybe the top 6 or 7 but even then there is no reason why we can't get some surprise points from someone like everyone else does.Again I agree but he is the "fall" guy, hes the manager whether things are in or out of his control. I think JP has employed him purely because of this but I am a Cynic!
I could understand people having a go at him if its clear our tactics are poor and we aren't motivated as a team and the like but not for things that have been largely out of his control.
But is it all going to be down to him if we can't get as many points as we expect from those games? Our pre-season has been very disrupted and none of it is down to Irvine. It isn't his fault we have had injuries to key players, not signed the players we desperately need or the way the fixtures came out. When we have a fully fit squad with a couple of decent attacking options coming in I expect us to be able to compete with most clubs with the exception of maybe the top 6 or 7 but even then there is no reason why we can't get some surprise points from someone like everyone else does.
I could understand people having a go at him if its clear our tactics are poor and we aren't motivated as a team and the like but not for things that have been largely out of his control.
If things go wrong quickly he can have no complaints. He has already had EIGHT new players through the door and according to interview clearly expects a couple more. Having been plucked from obscurity to front up a premier league team he has been backed more than any other WBA manager in recent times. Pre season has been shambolic in terms of results and it would seem tactically too. I didnt want him and still see it as an unacceptable appointment so it will be no surprise if it goes wrong for him in the first few games.
Despite all the incomings i feel we will go into the first game with a squad much weaker than last season,should any of the injuries and fitness issues persist much after Saturday and i feel this season could very quickly turn into a total disaster >:( >:(
I'm sorry but anyone who suggests our squad is weaker than last season is missing something. I would explain how they're better but if you can't already see it what's the point.for the first game we will almost certainly be weaker (or no better) at cb at least 1 fb wont have played prem football, attack wise we will have Anichebe, Berahino as the only 2 fully fit and prepared strikers and imo opinion a far inferior coach and people still say we are stronger ffs >:(
I'm sorry but anyone who suggests our squad is weaker than last season is missing something. I would explain how they're better but if you can't already see it what's the point.
If things go wrong quickly he can have no complaints. He has already had EIGHT new players through the door and according to interview clearly expects a couple more. Having been plucked from obscurity to front up a premier league team he has been backed more than any other WBA manager in recent times. Pre season has been shambolic in terms of results and it would seem tactically too. I didnt want him and still see it as an unacceptable appointment so it will be no surprise if it goes wrong for him in the first few games.
Despite all the incomings i feel we will go into the first game with a squad much weaker than last season,should any of the injuries and fitness issues persist much after Saturday and i feel this season could very quickly turn into a total disaster >:( >:(
suspect it's available players rather than overall squad mate. For example a guy who couldn't get in the team for going on 3 years has played a key role in midfield in every friendly.
If things go wrong quickly he can have no complaints. He has already had EIGHT new players through the door and according to interview clearly expects a couple more. Having been plucked from obscurity to front up a premier league team he has been backed more than any other WBA manager in recent times. Pre season has been shambolic in terms of results and it would seem tactically too. I didnt want him and still see it as an unacceptable appointment so it will be no surprise if it goes wrong for him in the first few games.
Despite all the incomings i feel we will go into the first game with a squad much weaker than last season,should any of the injuries and fitness issues persist much after Saturday and i feel this season could very quickly turn into a total disaster >:( >:(
Preseason has been shambolic for results? , is that a joke?
Dortmund lost 4-0 to Liverpool at the weekend, and then beat Bayern 2-0 in a competitive game the other night. Results don't mean everything.
Preseason has been shambolic for results? , is that a joke?
Dortmund lost 4-0 to Liverpool at the weekend, and then beat Bayern 2-0 in a competitive game the other night. Results don't mean everything.
agreed pre-season results mean nothing, but we haven't a lot else to go on at the moment...So why all the doom and gloom when as you say pre-season results mean nothing.
So why all the doom and gloom when as you say pre-season results mean nothing.
Are any bookies offering odds that Irvine will be gone by Christmas? If so, I wouldn't mind having a few pounds on!
Has his pre-season really been that disruptive?
I could cases which have been far worse.
Appears to me like Alan Irvine might possibly be getting his excuses in early.
I'd say from a coaches point of view it's been a disaster.
Pre season tour of America with less than half a squad.
Work permit/visa issues with new signings.
Players playing out of position as there is literally nobody else to play.
Having to play players who come the end of the month may be gone (Yacob and Dawson).
Some of the current squad missing the majority of pre season due to injury.
Going into a new season with gaping holes in the squad.
I know he's paid to be upbeat and positive but i think he's just stating facts.
You'll be wasting your money.
You could apply most of that logic to all 92 clubs in the football league.Exactly mate. Liverpool lost their star centre forward who scored a bag full of goals for them last season but doesn't stop them talking about a top 4 finish again, WHY, because they went out and got a replacements/replacements. We've put ALL our eggs in 1 basket, IDEYE, and if anything happens to him or he bombs, then we're f****d !!
The only real disruptive aspect for me is the fact that we've needed to get so many bodies in - then again, if the club didn't operate with the 'kick the can down the road' policy then we wouldn't have needed so many bodies.
Injuries, whilst disruptive are part and parcel of football and experienced by all football clubs across the world so it isn't something unique to us.
Exactly mate. Liverpool lost their star centre forward who scored a bag full of goals for them last season but doesn't stop them talking about a top 4 finish again, WHY, because they went out and got a replacements/replacements. We've put ALL our eggs in 1 basket, IDEYE, and if anything happens to him or he bombs, then we're f****d !!
Yeah but they didn't drop 10 places down the league table either !!
Yeah tottenham got replacements for Bale last year - great success!
Yeah but they didn't drop 10 places down the league table either !!
Www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvines-training-sessions-simply-the-best-gardner-1829523.aspx (http://Www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvines-training-sessions-simply-the-best-gardner-1829523.aspx)
Gardner set to make Baggies bow against former employers
CRAIG Gardner has hailed head coach Alan Irvine as one of the best he has ever worked under on the eve of the new Barclays Premier League season.
The Scot has received high praise from several Albion players for his coaching sessions since his appointment at The Hawthorns earlier this summer.
And midfielder Gardner, himself a summer recruit from Saturday’s opponents Sunderland, is the latest to applaud Irvine’s methods both on and also off the training pitch.
“The manager has come in and he’s got us going and got us firing straight away, and we’re going to take that into the season,†Gardner said.
“I think before you judge him you need to watch his training sessions, you need to be in the changing room, you need to really know him; he’s come here and been brilliant.
“I’m not just saying that because he’s the manager and he picks the team, he truly has been brilliant.
“His training sessions are different class, he talks really, really well in the changing room. He knows what he’s on about, he doesn’t talk for the sake of it.
“He’s a top-class coach and he’s a top-class person.
“It’s the same with Keith (Downing), Rob (Kelly) and Dean (Kiely) as well, they all know what they’re on about.
“On the training pitch we get well-set drills and it’s proper training sessions that relate to proper games. It’s not just ‘go out there and play football’.â€
Gardner has worked under the likes of Martin O’Neill, Gerard Houllier, Alex McLeish and Steve Bruce, among others, during his club career.
And asked whether Irvine is one of the finest coaches he has experienced to date, Gardner replied: “Coaching-wise he’s probably the best, yes.
“Again, I’m not just saying it, he’s very, very good.
“I’ve worked under a lot of people, Martin O’Neill was top class, Alex McLeish was very, very good as well.
“But Alan Irvine is a top-class coach, he’s really taken training sessions by the scruff of the neck.â€
Www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvines-training-sessions-simply-the-best-gardner-1829523.aspx (http://Www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvines-training-sessions-simply-the-best-gardner-1829523.aspx)
Gardner set to make Baggies bow against former employers
CRAIG Gardner has hailed head coach Alan Irvine as one of the best he has ever worked under on the eve of the new Barclays Premier League season.
The Scot has received high praise from several Albion players for his coaching sessions since his appointment at The Hawthorns earlier this summer.
And midfielder Gardner, himself a summer recruit from Saturday’s opponents Sunderland, is the latest to applaud Irvine’s methods both on and also off the training pitch.
“The manager has come in and he’s got us going and got us firing straight away, and we’re going to take that into the season,†Gardner said.
“I think before you judge him you need to watch his training sessions, you need to be in the changing room, you need to really know him; he’s come here and been brilliant.
“I’m not just saying that because he’s the manager and he picks the team, he truly has been brilliant.
“His training sessions are different class, he talks really, really well in the changing room. He knows what he’s on about, he doesn’t talk for the sake of it.
“He’s a top-class coach and he’s a top-class person.
“It’s the same with Keith (Downing), Rob (Kelly) and Dean (Kiely) as well, they all know what they’re on about.
“On the training pitch we get well-set drills and it’s proper training sessions that relate to proper games. It’s not just ‘go out there and play football’.â€
Gardner has worked under the likes of Martin O’Neill, Gerard Houllier, Alex McLeish and Steve Bruce, among others, during his club career.
And asked whether Irvine is one of the finest coaches he has experienced to date, Gardner replied: “Coaching-wise he’s probably the best, yes.
“Again, I’m not just saying it, he’s very, very good.
“I’ve worked under a lot of people, Martin O’Neill was top class, Alex McLeish was very, very good as well.
“But Alan Irvine is a top-class coach, he’s really taken training sessions by the scruff of the neck.â€
Its all perfectly well being brilliant on the training ground, you dont get any points on the training ground!
What an attitude! If points aren't won on the training ground, why is he being slated on pre season games and judged before a ball is kicked in anger? He's a head coach and unlike the last one who the players wouldn't play for they're responding in training to him and there's a respect there. At the end of the day the 11 guys on the pitch determine if we get points off the training ground, Irvine's job is to get them on side, working together and working hard. And he's doing that apparently.
I could do that. Irvine's job is to get points. If we don't get them he'll be the one who pays the price.
I could do that. Irvine's job is to get points. If we don't get them he'll be the one who pays the price.
The Albion PR machine has gone into overdrive with the appointment of Irvine. The picture they've painted so far is that Al;an is a mixture of Sir Alex Ferguson and Jesus Christ.
Www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvines-training-sessions-simply-the-best-gardner-1829523.aspx (http://Www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvines-training-sessions-simply-the-best-gardner-1829523.aspx)
Gardner set to make Baggies bow against former employers
CRAIG Gardner has hailed head coach Alan Irvine as one of the best he has ever worked under on the eve of the new Barclays Premier League season.
The Scot has received high praise from several Albion players for his coaching sessions since his appointment at The Hawthorns earlier this summer.
And midfielder Gardner, himself a summer recruit from Saturday’s opponents Sunderland, is the latest to applaud Irvine’s methods both on and also off the training pitch.
“The manager has come in and he’s got us going and got us firing straight away, and we’re going to take that into the season,†Gardner said.
“I think before you judge him you need to watch his training sessions, you need to be in the changing room, you need to really know him; he’s come here and been brilliant.
“I’m not just saying that because he’s the manager and he picks the team, he truly has been brilliant.
“His training sessions are different class, he talks really, really well in the changing room. He knows what he’s on about, he doesn’t talk for the sake of it.
“He’s a top-class coach and he’s a top-class person.
“It’s the same with Keith (Downing), Rob (Kelly) and Dean (Kiely) as well, they all know what they’re on about.
“On the training pitch we get well-set drills and it’s proper training sessions that relate to proper games. It’s not just ‘go out there and play football’.â€
Gardner has worked under the likes of Martin O’Neill, Gerard Houllier, Alex McLeish and Steve Bruce, among others, during his club career.
And asked whether Irvine is one of the finest coaches he has experienced to date, Gardner replied: “Coaching-wise he’s probably the best, yes.
“Again, I’m not just saying it, he’s very, very good.
“I’ve worked under a lot of people, Martin O’Neill was top class, Alex McLeish was very, very good as well.
“But Alan Irvine is a top-class coach, he’s really taken training sessions by the scruff of the neck.â€
Exactly mate. Liverpool lost their star centre forward who scored a bag full of goals for them last season but doesn't stop them talking about a top 4 finish again, WHY, because they went out and got a replacements/replacements. We've put ALL our eggs in 1 basket, IDEYE, and if anything happens to him or he bombs, then we're f****d !!
Just heard again Sherwood say he turned us down.Was Irvine a last minute desperate thingno he was always in the running just that his name never got leaked to press and you can quote me on that as it's from the horse's mouth as in JP
That would be embarrassing and dingle-esque
I agree. But it will happen.
The majority of fans are still smarting from the debacle of last season. Add to that the underwhelming appt of Irvine, and the kit etc, the fans imo are just waiting for a chance to let rip at the club.
The fans need convincing, and if that's not achieved in the first 6 games then rightly or wrongly, I do believe the fans will turn on him.
If he can come out of the first 6 games with 8 points - W2, D2, L2, and the style of play isn't too mind numbingly boring, then he'll have done well imo.
The position of head coach in our set up requires a number of abilities
Getting players united as a team - erring on side of a tick for this.
Tactical nous - jury out
Out-witting opposition head coach - Jury out
Building confidence - Jury out
Developing skills - Jury out
there are many other abilities / skills / attributes, my point is despite an un-inspiring record we have not had an opportunity to evaluate AI yet, until we have we must give him the benefit of the doubt and get baehind club, coaching staff, players.
As we all keep saying its our club !!! The rest is transisitory............. so lets back ourselves
and as for Craig's comments fair play to him and he's not the only one to come out and say it so they all must be wrong, perhaps the dressing room all being as one will make a massive difference compared the the Pepe reign
How many players come out and slag off their manager to the press?
The results of his coaching will be seen on a Saturday.
but they don't have to come out and say good things either do they but lots have
Final away day we'll be wearing kilts and taking scottish flags. Have some faith.
FFS Give the guy a chance. We are Albion, feck all the pundits and the ITKs. We do what we do. If we win great, if we dont , not so great . We are bigger than all this , we are a heritage, we are founders of the football league....ups and downs, they cant take this away from us, TBH i dont give a flying feck....we will always be there...
chill out...we are history, we are tradition we are what its all about.....results. yeah.
TBH...its more than that. id love to finish top ten, and i think we will.. but TBH i dont really care.
We are West Bromwich Albion.........wow, who else can say that!
but they don't have to come out and say good things either do they but lots have
Press Officer: "Craig can I have a quick word for the official website"Or maybe he actually believes it!
Gardner: "yeah sure"
Press Officer: "make sure you mention how respected AI is."
Gardner: "no problem."
did okay first game, bit unsure with the double subs before their second, when its that tight always best to keep formation.Yes, we defended poorly at times today, but that'll be remedied when we have 2 quality centre halves back in the team.
Note for next week - work at defending because it was dire.
Our problems for me came down our right flank mainly due to the fact we had no natural wide right man to support wisdom. A natural right sided midfielder is essential to give us balance defensively and offensivelyIs that where Gamboa could play?
The Albion PR machine has gone into overdrive with the appointment of Irvine. The picture they've painted so far is that Al;an is a mixture of Sir Alex Ferguson and Jesus Christ.For the benefit of the young people on here he means Jeremy Kyle and Simon Cowell :D
Didn't do a lot wrong yesterday, made the changes when they were needed.
I'm sure supporters of every team will criticize their manager's substitutions when they don't win.
Went for the safe option with about 15 mins to go bring on Yacob & sess it would have been the ideal time to give Bobby his 1st run out for us.Was preparing the subs to come on just as we scored. Am sure Sess was one, not sure if Ideye was preparing to enter as well. Think with the goal changed his outlook somewhat.
Disagree to be honestVery harsh..........he'd have been criticised all the same whenever he made the changes. It was clear Brunt & Dorrans were dead on their feet. The changes were similar personnel and he still had two up top. Some changes work, others dont. We would all have been happy if we had hung on
He should have made a change earlier as Sunderland had taken control
He made re first change when we went 2 1 up and tried to defend what we had far too early. This invited Sunderland to come at us more
Then made further defensive substitutions
Showed the difference between a good coach and a manager- but hopefully he will learn
Was preparing the subs to come on just as we scored. Am sure Sess was one, not sure if Ideye was preparing to enter as well. Think with the goal changed his outlook somewhat.
Still early days but if the substitutions are anything to go by then i worry.Should have totally gone out for the win when we took the lead agaisnt a poor Sunderland side at home but he decides to shut shop or is it still the influence of Downing, i am hearing the players are still running to Downing.Where are you hearing that the players are still running to Downing from?
One encouraging thing for me about Irvine is he likes his technical area, he never sat down once
My new seat is close to the dug out and you are right, us taking the lead changed his mind.Now this to me speaks volumes
Brown to me looked like he was about to come on until we scored
Where are you hearing that the players are still running to Downing from?Would there still be negative comments if we had won 2-1 after making the same substitutions.i personally think he should of made a substitution at about 60 mins(Sessegnon).They were on top of us then,but we then went and scored.
Still early days but if the substitutions are anything to go by then i worry.Should have totally gone out for the win when we took the lead agaisnt a poor Sunderland side at home but he decides to shut shop or is it still the influence of Downing, i am hearing the players are still running to Downing.your source needs to check his facts mate not true at all
One encouraging thing for me about Irvine is he likes his technical area, he never sat down once
your source needs to check his facts mate not true at all
I have seen one suggestion from somebody that on one occasion a player went over to Downing to gain instruction and it suddenly becomes an Internet theory. I was there, i didn't see it. Your seat is apparently near the dug out what did you see?. History does get changed easily on here.
I dont have a source.I have heard on radios and various internet media sites thats all.Like i say i am hearing.
Would there still be negative comments if we had won 2-1 after making the same substitutions.i personally think he should of made a substitution at about 60 mins(Sessegnon).They were on top of us then,but we then went and scored.
It shows a goal can come at any time.I would say I don't like 2 players coming on at the same time .
I thought it was Sess coming on but my eyesight from the Brummie is not what it used to be. Either way i still feel he should have stuck to his guns and made the positive change to put pressure on Sunderland who went 3 at the back. By then waiting and bringing on Baird was an act of inviting pressure and trying to hold the lead which we just can't do.
Do anybody think there was less "Hoofball" Saturday than when Hodgson and Clarke were Managers.We were moving it quite well through the midfield.
Do anybody think there was less "Hoofball" Saturday than when Hodgson and Clarke were Managers.We were moving it quite well through the midfield.
Yes, and I thought that we looked all the better for it.Exactly what I thought. We looked like we actually wanted to use the midfield and I thought Gardner was a really positive influence.
Encouraging start, now let's improve the defending off the ball and cut out the silly mistakes.
Not too sure what was wrong with his substitutions, it's not like we had an array of attacking options to come off the bench. Gardner had cramp and Dorrans was knackered, should we have put Ideye in midfield?
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-dressing-room-dead-7634891 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-dressing-room-dead-7634891)
Skipper reveals Baggies were 'at rock bottom' under Pepe Mel and credits new boss Alan Irvine for galvanising the Albion dressing room
Chris Brunt has delivered a damning assessment of Pepe Mel’s West Bromwich Albion reign by revealing the dressing room was ‘dead’ and at ‘rock bottom’ under the Spaniard.
The Baggies skipper says Alan Irvine has breathed new life into a club that was going downhill fast under Mel.
“It’s a million times different,†he said. “The spirit in the dressing room had pretty much died towards the end of last season.
“The lads have been great this season and we’re working hard for each other and it’s a squad game more than ever now and you’ve got to support everybody around the place, whether you’re playing or not.
“We’ve got a good vibe around the place and the lads are doing well together and if we can keep that going we will have a good chance this season.â€
Irvine’s appointment was hardly greeted with universal acclaim by the supporters but he has galvanised the dressing room, says Brunt.
“He deserves a lot of credit. His sessions have been great, the training has been brilliant and the lads have been really up for it so that’s credit to him, Rob (Kelly) and Keith (Downing).
“Last season was really poor and we are looking to lift that.
“We were pretty much at rock bottom when he took over and he has lifted us.â€
Albion’s opening day draw to Sunderland had Brunt brimming with positives.
“I thought we were the better side for the whole game,†he said.
“We need to tidy up our defending of crosses into our box because that was the only time Sunderland really looked dangerous.
“In pre-season we had a couple of poor results but we’ve started to get bodies back on the training field now and I think if you look back at this time last year we’re a lot further on than we were then.
“The lads worked hard for each other and there’s a good vibe in the dressing room and we can take a lot of positives out of the game.â€
Brunt was impressed with debutants Sebastien Pocognoli and Andre Wisdom.
“Seb played really well and Andre was pretty solid and they will grow into it as well,†he said.
“Seb will get used to the English game.
“He would have used a lot of adrenaline in his first game but he was pretty strong and hopefully as the season goes on he will build on that.
“Jason (Davidson) is there to give him a bit of competition too so we’re looking pretty decent at the back and hopefully we can keep that going.â€
Brunt promises there is more to come from Albion who travel to much-changed Southampton and Shane Long at the weekend.
“We keep going back to the fact it’s all about the squad and once we get everybody fit and on the training field we have a decent squad of players and there will be competition for places,†he said.
“That’s a good thing and it’s important that we all get together and support each other going into games.
“We did that on Saturday and the atmosphere in the dressing room was brilliant.
“Afterwards we were disappointed but I think we were pleased with the way we played overall.
“Not winning the game was disappointing but there was a lot of stuff we could take out of it as we move on to the next one.â€
Not strictly Irvine based but more positives about him and a point Brunt makes hits home for me. Irvine isn't here primarily to make us happy, that's a knock on effect of him getting the dressing room sorted and the players busting a gut for the club. His job is to coach the players that produce the performances that please us. His PR, media appearances and general reputation doesn't lead to us winning us points, his off field work does.
Good to hear, lets hope he can Galvanize the supporters like Pepe did.If Irvine keeps us up with good fooball along the way then i will be happy
If he put Brown on instead of Yacob or Baird and they equalised he would have been absolutley slated to pieces on here for not trying to 'see the game out'.
I'm prepared to give the guy a crack of the whip.
Irvine is the only WBA manager I've known in my time as a supporter... :P
Obviously the wife has been around for a fair few and she has her own opinions of Irvine in comparison, but I'm prepared to give the guy a crack of the whip.
completely off topic, but to "give someone a fair crack of the whip" is a weird expression isn't it ?
surely a crack with a whip would be a bad thing, wouldn't it.
It would appear that you are not alone.
:D,
Well that's part of what really interested me: a lot of us, myself included really liked Pepe Mel, who galvanised the fans but more and more looks like his actual job (coaching players) he wasn't doing a very good job at. As we were sick of all the other rubbish we went through last season, Mel stood out as bringing us hope and as a victim of the clubs spiralling situation. However, as well liked and respected by the fans as he was he wasn't by the players and it seems that Irvine's the opposite - dividing fans from the off but nailing down the head coach role well with the players. It comes down really to that. We want a guy who can galvanise the squad who in turn galvanise us with good performances, not with pity towards a likeable guy who seemed to be being shafted who was struggling on the pitch.
Well that's part of what really interested me: a lot of us, myself included really liked Pepe Mel, who galvanised the fans but more and more looks like his actual job (coaching players) he wasn't doing a very good job at. As we were sick of all the other rubbish we went through last season, Mel stood out as bringing us hope and as a victim of the clubs spiralling situation. However, as well liked and respected by the fans as he was he wasn't by the players and it seems that Irvine's the opposite - dividing fans from the off but nailing down the head coach role well with the players. It comes down really to that. We want a guy who can galvanise the squad who in turn galvanise us with good performances, not with pity towards a likeable guy who seemed to be being shafted who was struggling on the pitch.
Maybe the supporters got behind Mel so much because of the very very very anti Media.I know Jack who started the flag campaign and he said it was purely because he was fed up with all aspects of Media not giving Pepe Mel any support especially FranksieIn fairness Irvine has had some stick already , you get the feeling the Press are waiting to pounce on him.
You are right, if Irvine Galvanises the players then it will inturn rubb off on us.
Look forward to Saturday
I think ultimately we will never know about Pepe. He really wasn't given a chance at all in my opinion.
Stepping back and looking at the whole situation, he was too much of a change too abruptly for the existing squad. Even with the changes we have made, you get the feeling that the new regime is more in keeping with how the old guard are used to it working.
Right now I'm thinking 'whatever works'. I don't want to look backwards any more and I agree the dressing room being happy is a vital ingredient for our success.
Call me greedy though; I want excitement, not contentment.
We played better football against Sunderland than we ever did under Mel.
We kept possession against a team that sat back and didn't press us. Nothing more. Lots of people getting carried away with a point at home against a very poor side who despite the heroics at the end of last season will be down with the dead men again this year.
We kept possession against a team that sat back and didn't press us. Nothing more. Lots of people getting carried away with a point at home against a very poor side who despite the heroics at the end of last season will be down with the dead men again this year.
We kept possession against a team that sat back and didn't press us. Nothing more. Lots of people getting carried away with a point at home against a very poor side who despite the heroics at the end of last season will be down with the dead men again this year.
A really poor team who finished above us last season and they even released the player who ended up being our man of the match Saturday. Sunderland were poor because we pressed them and didn't let them play their possession game that Poyet usually has them playing. If we beat Southampton will it be how they are a poor team too? :-X
The subs were driven by injury and fatigue, not tactics.
I disagree. We had a sub ready to come on and even the board was ready. We scored and he was made to go and sit back down. So if that isn't tactics i oon't know what is?Sess was being brought on to give more attacking options when we were drawing but didn't come on when we took the lead. Good decision because we were able to make subs in response to injury and fatigue that we wouldn't have been able to if we had made an unnecessary tactical sub.
I am pretty sure Alan Irvine writes on this message board on this boardHad similar feelings about Sherwood writing on here in the lead up to our announcement of Head Coach myself.
Irvine seems very keen to have 3 centre backs as an option. If the 2 wing backs are expected to play deep that's a very defensive set up, unless you are going to dispense with the deep lying midfielder.
You need 5 attacking players if you are going to take the game to the opposition, which at home I would have thought was a must. Otherwise you are inviting pressure onto you.
I hope also there is no complacency with Saturday's performance in terms of, the current squad will do. If Saido gets injured or more likely, has a dip in form, we need other attacking options. I think we may regret getting rid of Amalfitano, unless we are about to bring in an attacking widemen, who is better. It looks like they are still scratching around trying to find someone. Otherwise the team is going to be too narrow. It's fine saying the wing backs will get forward, but are they then also expected to play as full backs?
I am pretty sure Alan Irvine writes on this message board
As whom?
cant say but he knows who he is, a little like Jack with Pepe, thinks the sun shines and all that
I am pretty sure Alan Irvine writes on this message board
Sure it isn't you Glyn under a different name, we all know you love Alan Irvine deep down :D
cant say but he knows who he is, a little like Jack with Pepe, thinks the sun shines and all that
Sure it isn't you Glyn under a different name, we all know you love Alan Irvine deep down :D
cant say but he knows who he is, a little like Jack with Pepe, thinks the sun shines and all that
Can you keep conspiracy theories off the forum please and stick to the actual topic.I reckon its Oldbury !!
Thanks
I reckon its Oldbury !!
Been on here since we "ahem" turned him down when interviewed previously........LMFAO !!
Nah Oldbury is definitely the 2nd iteration of Dorrans' missus on here :o ;D
does that make you brunty mate ;D (sorry couldn't resist)
does that make you brunty mate ;D (sorry couldn't resist)
Just as well we didn't appoint Malky Mackay!
We've played two sides who will be right down there with us at the end of the season and have competed well without winning. We go to Swansea who have a 100 percent record before hosting Everton and then travelling to a Spurs. I can't see where we will get 3 points from. 2014 for me I'm afraid.
He'll still be here this time next season I have no doubt about that. Doing a cracking job so far, the players are happy playing for him and are also playing as a team. We've been the better team in both games and with the new players still to come in I think we'll have a good season.
Will not vote on this out of principle: as far as I'm concerned as a fan that liked Mel, and was angry at his lack of support, Alan has had a positive impact in my own opinion. A happy, solid, hard working Albion makes a happy, solid fan base. He's got to win over some, those who wanted him to be given a chance have and it's clear that any thoughts that he was clueless and out his depth at this level are seeming premature. I won't put an estimate on his time here because what I want is the team doing well and playing well. As long as that continues, as I want, so will Alans tenure.
I was not happy with his appointment, but this is a distasteful poll.
I was not happy with his appointment, but this is a distasteful poll.
I didnt do it to be distasteful, just wondered what everyone thought. As Quakes said, the turnaround in opinions (from June) is quite amazing and who would have thought any fan would have opted for 2015!
I didnt do it to be distasteful, just wondered what everyone thought. As Quakes said, the turnaround in opinions (from June) is quite amazing and who would have thought any fan would have opted for 2015!As the biggest vote so far is Other I take it more and more of us are thinking this sort of poll IS unnecessarily distateful and are getting behind AI. If he does go in 2015 let's hope its because he gets poached.
Great buys thus far from Irvine in my opinion. I'm going to put my neck out and say that a lot of his purchases have been very shrewd so far. Great strategy.
He is putting together a very useful squad by doing business that stays away from the sensationalist buy. It's a strategy that has done wonders for a fair few teams in recent years.
Keep it up AI.
Great buys thus far from Irvine in my opinion. I'm going to put my neck out and say that a lot of his purchases have been very shrewd so far. Great strategy.
He is putting together a very useful squad by doing business that stays away from the sensationalist buy. It's a strategy that has done wonders for a fair few teams in recent years.
Keep it up AI.
To be fair Mukka, thats not quite how it works at the Albion, whilst I was one of the 'lets back Alan Irvine' brigade, I'm afraid he can't take a lot of the credit for the players we've signed, that goes down to a lot of work done within the scouting system, although AI may have had some consultation the majority of the decision's on player recruitment are made by the DOF & above.
I would add Irvine seems to be doing an excellent job at the moment & I think he's won over a fair few doubters.
Forgive me. Still on a learning curve, obviously.
;D
You sound like Dave Jones talking about a learning curve.
You want to stop that ;D
:P
Will do.
How about an educational angle?
When Dave Jones was losing the plot it went from talk of a learning curve to talking about wild animals.
I've naturally assumed that anybody who says 'learning curve' will copy him in talking about badgers, dogs & 'osses. :D
I think AI can now have no excuses. Excellent work on the transfer side of things this summer.I must admit to being disappointed at not getting the chance to see how Pepe Mel would utilise these new players. I am slightly concerned that Sessegnon isn't being seen as first choice by Irvine. It can't be that he's regarded as not being match-fit, although he did miss pre-season training, and hence the tactical planning, for a while. I hope he's back in the side soon, as it will undoubtedly increase our goal threat and it'll be great to see how well he combines with Bobby.
I certainly don't think we'll lose games that we would otherwise have done last year...
Southampton and Sunderland being a case in point.
Liked his comments in the after-match interview when asked about tomorrows game with Oxford in the cup. He stressed that we WOULD NOT be taking the match lightly and would field our first eleven.
At last 8)
We're a point worse off than from the corresponding fixtures last year. It's the draws that kill you mate.We are also 2 points better off than this time last year. It's defeats that kill you mate.
We are also 2 points better off than this time last year. It's defeats that kill you mate.
better to win 2 and lose 3 than draw 5. We were in the mire last season because of too many draws.
better to win 2 and lose 3 than draw 5. We were in the mire last season because of too many draws.
Liked his comments in the after-match interview when asked about tomorrows game with Oxford in the cup. He stressed that we WOULD NOT be taking the match lightly and would field our first eleven.He needs to because he needs a win. If this goes wrong the knife sharpeners will be out if not the blades themselves !
At last 8)
better to win 2 and lose 3 than draw 5. We were in the mire last season because of too many draws.
He needs to because he needs a win. If this goes wrong the knife sharpeners will be out if not the blades themselves !Some have had them out before the season even started :-X
Liked his comments in the after-match interview when asked about tomorrows game with Oxford in the cup. He stressed that we WOULD NOT be taking the match lightly and would field our first eleven.
At last 8)
Same mistake made by Alan Irvine in the Oxford game as in the Sunderland game. When momentum starts to swing away from you, you need to make positive substitutions to try and kill off the game. Reverting to trying to see the game out rarely works- Irvine has been reactive when he needs to be proactive. Attacking is the best way to take the pressure off the defence- sitting back and trying to hold out for the win tends to end in tears. Three defensive midfielders on at the end of both games is a joke, and then you end up searching for a winner with what you have...
We should have been about 3-0 up in the first half, missed chances cost us.stop defending him.its pathetic performance,embarrassing
stop defending him.its pathetic performance,embarrassingPathetic team performance?
i agree but i was berated when i mentioned the sunderland subs just before they scored. you stay like for like and put a forward with fresh legs on to work the hell out of their defence. putting an extra defender or defensive midfielder means they push one extra up and their defence has so much time on the ball they can cherry pick the passes.Absolutely. Basic tactics really. I've tried not to prejudge Irvine and just go off what I see, but I've already seen worrying parallels with what Preston and Sheffield Wednesday fans have said about unambitious and even incomprehensible decisions. The appointment still beggars belief really- the best predictor of a managers success is their past performance. Inconceivably, it seems that was completely ignored by Jeremy Peace, and moreso Terry Burton who recommended him.
You defend from the front, with your forwards closing down the defence and not giving them time to relax so they make mistakes and give us the ball back.
PMSL. :Dyou honestly think he´ll last the season ?? ??? ???
Was wandering how long it would take you to appear. Don't base him on 1 f****** game. Base him on the season.
you honestly think he´ll last the season ?? ??? ???no chance
PMSL. :D
Was wandering how long it would take you to appear. Don't base him on 1 f****** game. Base him on the season.
Totally and utterly clueless .top coach my ass
Totally and utterly clueless .top coach my assAmen to that!
Undefeated in three games and through to the next round of the cup.
Undefeated in three games and through to the next round of the cup.
Nothing like putting a positive spin on things. Do you write up the official website articles by any chance?
How about two draws to teams we should be beating and scraping through on penalties against a team three leagues below us.
Totally and utterly clueless .top coach my ass
Nothing like putting a positive spin on things. Do you write up the official website articles by any chance?
How about two draws to teams we should be beating and scraping through on penalties against a team three leagues below us.
If you think we should be beating Southampton away you're deluded.
Why should we be beating Southampton?
Team torn apart by the vultures of the league and their squad is not a patch on what it was last season and like I replied to Dan: I would have liked to have hoped the club would have had Southampton down as a winnable game, if not, we might as well throw in the towel now.
I would have liked to have hoped the club would have had Southampton down as a winnable game, if not, we might as well throw in the towel now.
Team torn apart by the vultures of the league and their squad is not a patch on what it was last season and like I replied to Dan: I would have liked to have hoped the club would have had Southampton down as a winnable game, if not, we might as well throw in the towel now.
A potentially winnable game maybe.
yes let's throw the towel in because we didn't beat Southampton
AL started out very attacking. Oxford treated the 2nd half as their cup final and fair play to them. No faults with his tactics from me, the blame for extra time should be placed on the strikers for missing so many chances.
Unbeaten in three :)
We missed enough chances in that first half to have won 6 games of football. Irvine doesn't play up front for us, he can only coach so if anything, he has got us creating, its up to the strikers to convert.
My jury is still out on him.
AL started out very attacking. Oxford treated the 2nd half as their cup final and fair play to them. No faults with his tactics from me, the blame for extra time should be placed on the strikers for missing so many chances.
Unbeaten in three :)
I'm guessing the people posting didn't go tonight. We did not miss a string of clear goalscoring chances in the first half. We just had a lot of shots.
Some of our players went into tonight's game as though it was a gimme...it wasn't and Oxford battled for their lives, and fair play to them. I hope this has been a shock to the whole squad and they now realise there is absolutely no room for complacency. Irvine seemed to play for a 1 none and got his just deserts, but the game should have been put to bed earlier. One more thing...we are not bloody Arsenal..so stop trying to walk the ball into the net ! Jeeze..
Alan Irvine failed at Preston and even more so at Sheffield Wednesday because he played far too defensively and could not get it to work. If you are going to play defensively, you leave yourself very little room for error with fans and pundits alike, and you have to make sure you are picking up regular results. Irvine could not do this and playing 4 central midfielders in a 4 man midfield did not help at Sheffield Wednesday.
He has been given a chance here to make his management career work again - a chance most failed league 1 managers don't get. He needs to take this chance and show that he has learnt from the mistakes he made at his past clubs and produce a more balanced team that can win games. Today, all we saw was a manager who, only 3 competitive games into his tenure here, gave in to his nagging defensive instincts and decided the best way to see out a 1-0 home game against the side at the bottom of the football league, was to add a third defensive midfielder/fourth central midfielder to the mix and put him on at right midfield. It backfired and Oxford proceeded to dominate the game until they went down to ten men and until we had redressed the obvious problem and brought on a more natural wide man to play on the right flank.
No manager with any common sense would put a defensive midfielder on at right midfield in the situation we found ourselves in. This isn't "pub talk coaching" or "football manager expert", this is just common sense and a basic understanding of football tactics.
There were serious worries about Irvine when he was appointed. Today, he showed signs that those worries may have some foundation.
The only positive is that it is early days and surely even he must understand today he messed up. As the season gets going, we will have far more options available and that may stop him from doing something as ridiculous as this again. We can only hope.
Hes creating a rod for his own back, what he really needed was a performance to win over his doubters and he couldnt do that against a team bottom of the whole football league having lost all their games so far.You have to be more positive Irvine especially at home
A 2/3 nil win was the absolute minimum IMO and that would have given him a free pass until the end of September.
He's got us into the third round for the first time since 2011.
Genius ;D
He's got us into the third round for the first time since 2011.
Genius ;D
Were we not in the Third Round last year after beating Newport County and losing to Arsenal on penalties.
Also, everyone saying that Oxford have lost every game this season. Well unless they did a Celtic, I presume they beat someone in the First Round of the Cup, or at worst technically draw a match and win on penalties.
Not at match so can't comment but players certainly should take some blame for not taking own initiative and killing game off but does seem Irvine went too much into shell towards end and didn't inspire players to kill the game off.
Although Mulumbu is largely a defensive midfielder, I thought last season he was used quite well towards the end of the season as an energetic box to box midfield whose urgency helped us as much get on quick counter-attacks as much as shoring up the defence.
it's a shame some won't give him the same time as the wonderful Pepe
it's a shame some won't give him the time time as the wonderful Pepe
I think Irvine probably got an insight last night into how much pressure he is under.
Hopefully he learnt a lot, not just about the players but about the subs, approach, etc because no doubt about it we got lucky in the end, i can understand maybe closing a game out with a 2 goal advantage, just be professional dont let the opposition back in, etc but get in the position of been 2 goals ahead first! If the other team get an equaliser the momentum shifts to them so i hope he doesnt try and do it every time.
That said, we are in the next round, some of the new boys got a good runout and i am sure lessons were learned. The creativity was poor and hasnt been great for the 2 x league games previous to it (although overall we played okay) but to be fair we have Samaras, Varela, Gamboa, plus possibly 1 x other player to come in so hopefully we will start to create.
I think last night showed how little time Irvine sadly has, drawing against a league 2 side will always get the punters annoyed but i have a feeling if it had been Hodgson or Pepe Mel in charge last night the reactions wouldnt of been so tough as Irvine got, it sometimes feels some fans are almost waiting him to fail which is sad.
it's a shame some won't give him the same time as the wonderful PepeIt's not about time it's about tactics.
Pepe Mel no way had an ounce of support like Irvine has had.No support from management and no support from players.
Irvine no doubt has time but he has much convincing to do
Pepe Mel no way had an ounce of support like Irvine has had.No support from management and no support from players.do you think there maybe a reason for that though perhaps he wasn't as good as people made out or perhaps when he was backed his so called mates let him down by staying in Spain,
Irvine no doubt has time but he has much convincing to do
Should never have been appointed in the first place. Its shocking beyond belief. I hope sooner rather than later the club realise that this bloke isn't the man for the job preferably before we are inevitably cut adrift at the bottom of the league.
Hate to be doom and gloom about it but its baffled the hell out of me since his appointment.
I know its a bit off topic but what was the Alan F'*nng Irvine song from last night?
I feel slightly bad about this - it was something we were singing on Saturday, admittedly, we had been drinking. We had been putting Irvine's name into many of the club classics songs played on Heart FM and eventually Alan Irvine's name was placed into the conga tune.
One of my mates started it in the ground on Saturday and about 20 joined in before we all broke out into "Alan Irvine's Barmy Army".
Looks like someone started chanting it last night.
How about give him some time to prove he can do a job?
Mel had 0% support from the players. Irvine has already done better than Mel in support from the players.all this without actually winning a football match!! >:( >:(
Boys...we are unbeaten in the league & into the 3rd round of the CC. Done a very good job so far.
all this without actually winning a football match!! >:( >:(
Yeah, but we are hard to beat. :)
Yeah, but we are hard to beat. :)
I said i think some (not all) people are waiting for him to fail, not wanting him to fail, there is a big difference. Maybe expecting him to fail is a better choice of words, but from comments round by me, it was clear there is some who are 'waiting' as much to say i told you so.
Not if you have a few more beers mate ;)
and boring to watch
Not if you a few more beers mate ;)
and boring to watch
I couldn't care if it's boring to watch. It's a results business.
I think thats how most normal fans feel Black Pearl (me included).
Irvine wouldnt of been my first choice and he wasnt an exciting 'name' but he is here now and will have my full backing, the start has been decent, we have some quality to come back into the team and i think there are a lot of positives to be taken.
Normal fans want him to do well because by doing so it means we are winning games but there was a group round by me who genuinely seemed to be enjoying the fact we were struggling last night, couldnt wait to get stuck into him, had a pop at everything (and i mean everything he did) and it was clear they hadnt wanted him in the first place and couldnt wait to be proved right, we all have our moans and groans, quite often on these forums but i cant recall in my near 30 years of going the Albion a manager / head coach ever having people so keen to prove that they were right about somebody being a failure! It genuinely shocked me!
I don't mind a defensive minded coach but if you are you need to teach the squad how to defend. Both Sunderland and Oxford matches the defensive substitutions and trying to hold the 1-0 haven't worked.
I didn't want Irvine,but I have been quite impressed with both team performances in the league anyway,especially first half v sunderland and 2nd half v saints,what does worry me is that both games were there for the taking and a more attacking coach with better use of attacking subsitutes including times they were bought on to the pitch would have got 6 points
Playing three defensive mids, at home, against the bottom team in the league is being defensive beyond the point of ridiculousness.
Yes you are correct . On the other hand top teams are worried about the 1 st team getting injured . Our 1st choice of attack weren't available samaras varela Dorians and Gardner . And that's my original point the fans get shafted . 17000 turned up at the vile tonight to see them lose .
For 12 minutes of normal time.
Playing three defensive mids, at home, against the bottom team in the league is being defensive beyond the point of ridiculousness.
The three defensive midfielders, is this the only role that they can play and who has labelled them as defensive midfielders? I wasn't at the game as I'm out of the country, were the players in question lined up in front of the back four or were they plaing in a different position (for the however many minutes they were on together)
I assume that we are also taking Yacob, Mulumbu and Baird as being these defensive players? Wasn't Yacob originally brought in to sit behind the front two (even though we now tend to sit him deeper) and Mulumbu more a box to box man.
Labelling players doesn't mean that is how they actually play (although as I have already said I wasn't there so may be it was in this case!)
I don't mind a nice real ale - hell, I love a nice real ale.
Combine West Brom with real ale and I'm all for that!
:P
Yes you are correct . On the other hand top teams are worried about the 1 st team getting injured . Our 1st choice of attack weren't available samaras varela Dorians and Gardner . And that's my original point the fans get shafted . 17000 turned up at the vile tonight to see them lose .
The three defensive midfielders, is this the only role that they can play and who has labelled them as defensive midfielders? I wasn't at the game as I'm out of the country, were the players in question lined up in front of the back four or were they plaing in a different position (for the however many minutes they were on together)
I assume that we are also taking Yacob, Mulumbu and Baird as being these defensive players? Wasn't Yacob originally brought in to sit behind the front two (even though we now tend to sit him deeper) and Mulumbu more a box to box man.
Labelling players doesn't mean that is how they actually play (although as I have already said I wasn't there so may be it was in this case!)
Never thought I would say this but hope Pulis is still out of a job come October!
How long does he get? This will not be turned around.
Never thought I would say this but hope Pulis is still out of a job come October!
like everyone says will be gone by Christmas I think sooner , JP lessons learned from last year really !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We looked so organised in the first two games lets hope its a bad day but the vultures will be circling if he doesnt pick up a win over the next few weeks especially with the new players signed.
I'll back him when he has a full squad but one things for certain, his subs need to happen before the other team does something to try and make us do something.His selections are rubbish with the players he has available, Who else would pick Dawson with Gmac fit? We've scored 1 goal in 4 games, yet Dorrans and Brunt get in ahead of Sess. Wisdom doesn't even consider himself a right back yet still gets in ahead of Gamboa.
He needs to set up more positively though. The likes of Gamboa and Sess need to start and Wisdom, Brunt etc should be know more than squad players
you can blame Irvine he went for the job so don't have that he could of said no I am not upto the job .
Who exactly do people expect would come in?
We went for Irvine because we had barely any options in the first place. Yet alone starting the season with a squad not their own playing catch up to the rest of the league. The club's entire set up instantly rules out 90% of managers. You'll get people calling for Pulis no doubt, but that would never happen, he's an old school manager who would never work with the lack of control here.
The only people available for the job the way we work is either people new to management like Clarke was, or older coaches who've failed before and would take any job like Irvine. You're not going to get quality experienced track record coaches coming here. Of course your other option is foreign managers but that seems like it'll never happen again under Peace after Mel. For whatever reason the club has decided its style is the one Hodgson had here, we'll just be after coaching managers like Irvine but not Irvine.
Give him till the Burnley game please.Why, what have you seen to suggest he will turn this around?
He's not going anywhere. We've seen this sort of performance from Albion at Swansea many times, under Hodgson, under Clarke, Under Mel we should have been out of sight at half time too. Whenever we go to Swansea we seem to really struggle against them.
People who blame the manager know nothing about footballIf that were true managers would have a job for life, they would never get the sack.
yes I would turn the job down when he is sacked before Christmas wheres that leave him ? blokes way out of his depth . he had to hit the ground running seeing as the fans didn't want him and that has not happened .
We actually won there under Pepe Mel remember!
People who blame the manager know nothing about football
We've got 2 points from:
Swansea -Away
Southampton - Away
Sunderland - Home
It's not brill, but it's not that bad and we've had 11 new players come in, many of whom for various reasons aren't up to fitness yet.
Those who seriously want him out should be ashamed. If we'd have had 10 games then maybe, but it's 3 and the new players aren't in yet.....
Modern football is totally fecked and many fans are spoilt brats. Disgusting!
He's not going anywhere. We've seen this sort of performance from Albion at Swansea many times, under Hodgson, under Clarke, Under Mel we should have been out of sight at half time too. Whenever we go to Swansea we seem to really struggle against them.
I knew it, the first defeat and it starts, and BTW I did not want him as manager/coach, but FFS give him a chance. >:(
Embarrassing thread. Our fans really have become the worst in the country. Other supporters mock us now for our meltdowns over everything.
Seriously how can you judge a manager on 3 games? And when the new signings have yet to feature?
Joke fans
We've got 2 points from:
Swansea -Away
Southampton - Away
Sunderland - Home
It's not brill, but it's not that bad and we've had 11 new players come in, many of whom for various reasons aren't up to fitness yet.
Those who seriously want him out should be ashamed. If we'd have had 10 games then maybe, but it's 3 and the new players aren't in yet.....
Modern football is totally fecked and many fans are spoilt brats. Disgusting!
A fair bit richer, that's where!not all about money thow is it ?
I'm with you Kc56 was appalled when I first heard the news, but I really feel we have made some excellent signings this summer and once they get game time and we get them playing together results will come for us.
Its not the defeat, its the manner of the defeat, setting us up soooo negatively is just asking for trouble, I can take losing, but we did not have a chance in that game because of the way we were set up, only one man picks the team, he carries the can!
By the way, when did we last win a game including pre season.
Who exactly do people expect would come in?
We went for Irvine because we had barely any options in the first place. Yet alone starting the season with a squad not their own playing catch up to the rest of the league. The club's entire set up instantly rules out 90% of managers. You'll get people calling for Pulis no doubt, but that would never happen, he's an old school manager who would never work with the lack of control here.
The only people available for the job the way we work is either people new to management like Clarke was, or older coaches who've failed before and would take any job like Irvine. You're not going to get quality experienced track record coaches coming here. Of course your other option is foreign managers but that seems like it'll never happen again under Peace after Mel. For whatever reason the club has decided its style is the one Hodgson had here, we'll just be after coaching managers like Irvine but not Irvine.
He's clearly not going to get sacked any time soon so there's no point making calls now. The only defence you can make for him is he has been hit hard with injuries, particularly defensively Dawson should be 4th choice but has started every game, and Pocognoli's out too. I suspect given Olsson's performance he'll probably drop behind McAuley too so in effect we might be fielding a back 4 that is entirely next match.
I do fear for him with the games coming up however, he could very feasibly get 0 points from the next 5. Palace and Sunderland showed disastrous starts don't mean relegation but that'll be the time serious questions get asked by the board.
The thing will make or break him is overcoming his innate conservativeness. We shouldn't be making such large concessions to teams like Swansea, we should be going to them as equals. To get away with playing defensive reactionary football you need to have an excellent defence, something we don't have. We've never looked comfortable absorbing pressure (like teams do when defending against us) so its a strange game plan to build the side around.
How do you work that out?
The guy has failed everywhere he has been and people can't see it changing here. Based on month 1, it looks like another hard, long season.
He won't be here in January, guaranteed.
We've got 2 points from:I wouldn't have supported this club for 40 years if results bothered me.
Swansea -Away
Southampton - Away
Sunderland - Home
It's not brill, but it's not that bad and we've had 11 new players come in, many of whom for various reasons aren't up to fitness yet.
Those who seriously want him out should be ashamed. If we'd have had 10 games then maybe, but it's 3 and the new players aren't in yet.....
Modern football is totally fecked and many fans are spoilt brats. Disgusting!
Yeah, I feel the same way.
Like everyone else I was underwhelmed with the appointment BUT Irvine is our Head Coach and he's been in the job "5 mins".
He's had 4 matches, we've lost 1 of those, we've had a massive turnover in players, plus injuries to a couple of key new additions.
So we're still in August and we are demanding he be sacked?
A truly pathetic cringeworthy thread. Desperate really.
What have we become?
How do you work that out?
The guy has failed everywhere he has been and people can't see it changing here. Based on month 1, it looks like another hard, long season.
He won't be here in January, guaranteed.
I am sorry but nothing I have seen so far suggests that he has a clue
Why are all our players that played in the World Cup not fit enough but Morisson who didn't play a pre season game because of an operation get on as a sub
I also think that Downing needs to go aswell
I didn't fancy many of those linked with us in the summer but they were better than Alan Irvine
He didn't fail at Preston. He didn't fail working at Everton. We finished 17th last season and have changed a lot of the squad. It's going to take time and patience. Irvine has no magic wand to make the team who finished 17th last season a great team.
He did nothing at Preston
You forget to mention Sheffield Wednesday where he failed because it doesn't suit your argument and at Everton he was only allowed near the kids
Finishing in the play offs is nothing? He saved them from relegation in his first season and finished in the play offs the next. To some of our fans that is failure. ???Didn't Gary Megson do that for us?
He didn't fail at Preston. He didn't fail working at Everton. We finished 17th last season and have changed a lot of the squad. It's going to take time and patience. Irvine has no magic wand to make the team who finished 17th last season a great team.
But please answer this question. What will Irvine bring to the team that will make us a good side again?
So far he has shown zero tactical nous but been utterly predictable along the lines of what we had heard he would be from people in the know about him?
It's a bit silly to say sack him yet, but like others the vibe I'm getting is that the bloke is completely clueless and has somehow managed to talk himself into a premier league job.
Talk himself into a job? We approached him! He didn't even apply.
He stands on the touch line arms folded showing no passion at all. His body language is that of a coach who hasn't got a clue!By all means criticise him for tactics etc but never get it when people use the 'shows no passion on the touchline' view.
I think we're trying to go back to what we were like under Hodgson, a well organised team who were hard to beat and capable of playing football at times too. Irvine's work on the training ground will be Hodgson like. The tactics were spot on in our first two games. Swansea outplayed us like they seem to do nearly every time we play them. It's way too early to judge.
By all means criticise him for tactics etc but never get it when people use the 'shows no passion on the touchline' view.
Think it's irrelevant. Some managers just take a more considered view from the dug-out, doesn't make them any more or less passionate
Paolo Di Canio shows plenty of emotion on the touchline and he's useless.
I wouldn't have supported this club for 40 years if results bothered me.
Give him until the end of September then get shot. We will go down other wise.
JP wont put up with pooh results for too long anyway , he cant after his spending spree. 2 goals in 3 matches and one was a lucky penalty just aint good enough.
We looked so organised in the first two games lets hope its a bad day but the vultures will be circling if he doesnt pick up a win over the next few weeks especially with the new players signed.
Embarrassing thread. Our fans really have become the worst in the country. Other supporters mock us now for our meltdowns over everything.i have to agree with you mate, some of our so called fans are a disgrace.
Seriously how can you judge a manager on 3 games? And when the new signings have yet to feature?
Joke fans
Give the bloke a chance!
Give the bloke a chance!
First defeat of the season, & playing with a back four that probably contains 1 player that would normally play but for injuries/lack of fitness. Surely Lescott, Pocognoli, Gamboa & maybe even Mcauley as well will make up our defence in a few weeks.
Why not go the whole hog & become proper Dingles by getting on the blower, ringing WM & whining ... 'Franksy, he's gotta goo.'
We've got to give him a dozen games at least, as we've got so many players he's welcomed to the club that we haven't seen yet!
i have to agree with you mate, some of our so called fans are a disgrace.
Yes let's get rid of Irvine and bring in a new bloke and if he only gets 2 draws and one defeat in his first 3 league games then get rid of him as well, shall we?
I think all of this comes back to Peace's decision to go with the players rather than Mel at the end of last season. It was the "old guard" of the likes of Steven Reid who simply weren't up to Mel's ambition and philosophies, and who went behind his back in favour of their old pals Keith Downing and Dean Kiely. While the fans got behind Mel, Peace sided with the old guard and we are currently seeing (a continuation of) the results of that decision. It would've been great to see these bunch of new players with Mel's attacking style and the fresh methods his coaching staff would've brought. Nevermind.
We have never won a Premier League match away in August, even when finishing 8th, 10th and 12th.
Never wanted him but he did inherit a huge mess with little of a squad , I'm not keen on Saido as a winger at all but i won't join the Irvine out brigade until these new players are bedded in and have had a good chance.
If you are going to blame anybody for our current mess then look at JP , opening the vault lately doesn't hide the fact he switched off for 18 months.
Just to add when are some of these nicely paid players going to take some blame ?
Never wanted him but he did inherit a huge mess with little of a squad , I'm not keen on Saido as a winger at all but i won't join the Irvine out brigade until these new players are bedded in and have had a good chance.
If you are going to blame anybody for our current mess then look at JP , opening the vault lately doesn't hide the fact he switched off for 18 months.
Just to add when are some of these nicely paid players going to take some blame ?
The nucleus of the squad without the new players should be able to keep us up on their own. The new players are a added bonus.Can't agree mate , ageing players , some injury prone and some that haven't played well in months .
I have never ever been concerned in August the way I am now though.And those of us that have blatantly opposed his appointment have been poo pooed, wake up and smell the coffee the bloke aint got a clue !!
I have never ever been concerned in August the way I am now though.
Wow, knee jerknope, just realistic. Have seen no justification for his appointment based on footballing reality and dont expect to anytime soon >:( >:(. For chrissakes Dagenham and Redbridge scored 3 against Oxford today !!
And those of us that have blatantly opposed his appointment have been poo pooed, wake up and smell the coffee the bloke aint got a clue !!
To be fair though mate you were concerned in June when Irvine was announced!
I've been reading this forum for donkeys and never usually post on here, but feel compelled to do so after reading this tripe. I honestly feel the quality of our support has never been worse, yet the club is a million times stronger than when I started going to games back in the very early 90's. I remember playing teams like Darlington in the old 3rd division and the support as a kid was bloody fantastic even then. Now it's all prawn sandwiches and fickle fans.
Not saying last season wasn't a shambles and the club screwed up big time but Alan Irvine hasn't done anything wrong so far considering the obstacles of fitness etc he's had to come up against. Knee jerk reactions are exactly what puts clubs into meltdown. Footballs about the long game and there's plenty of time to go this season and it's about time the fans gave him some backing because the boo boys are as guilty as anyone for the situation of last year. Frankly it's disgusting, this thread is a disgrace and if you want multi million pound signings and wins ever week, sod off and support Man City.
Albion's a family and we stick it in thick and thin. The club needs your support not your ill informed, football manager armchair criticism. Those who proudly proclaim they've been supporting the Albion 40 odd years would do well to remember the shambles I walked into as a kid and think long and hard how differently it could all be today before being such poor fans.
Albion till I die.
I said since the minute he was appointed it will be a disaster. I was really hoping to be proved wrong.
You were just saying we haven't won an away game in August and I was just saying we are never usually concerned anyway but this time we are concerned about it because we know we are going one way and that isn't up!
How do you work that out?can you make that October.
The guy has failed everywhere he has been and people can't see it changing here. Based on month 1, it looks like another hard, long season.
He won't be here in January, guaranteed.
Hi folks, new to the forum, signed up this morning as i dont think the mrs can stand anymore of my moaning so may as well get it down on here. Season ticket holder for a few years now.
As for today, i was dissapointed from the off, i thought not starting Sessegnon was a negative move straight away and gave me little confidence we would get anything from the game. I along with many others was baffled by the Irvine appointment, anger switfly moved onto acceptance and i got behind him, as i have with any coach or player that has walked through the door. I would like to see him get his signings out on the pitch before making any quick decisions. I dont believe we have started anywhere near our strongest 11 yet. Think he will learn fast that he as to be more positive with his team selection, the likes of Brunt and Berahino have to be sacrificed for players with more creativity and flair.
It also worries me how he talks about the games as if it is Football Manager on the PC, the way he sets the team up with a game plan and instructions on the oppostion. I do hope he doesnt worry too much about what the opposing team are going to do and gives his own players the confidence and freedom to go out and play. Hopefully he will find that balance, how long he gets to find it is another thing. I fear another bad performance against Everton could be the start of a toxic atmosphere.
Anyway, sorry for rambling. What else if there to talk about on a Saturday evening?
Hi folks, new to the forum, signed up this morning as i dont think the mrs can stand anymore of my moaning so may as well get it down on here. Season ticket holder for a few years now.
As for today, i was dissapointed from the off, i thought not starting Sessegnon was a negative move straight away and gave me little confidence we would get anything from the game. I along with many others was baffled by the Irvine appointment, anger switfly moved onto acceptance and i got behind him, as i have with any coach or player that has walked through the door. I would like to see him get his signings out on the pitch before making any quick decisions. I dont believe we have started anywhere near our strongest 11 yet. Think he will learn fast that he as to be more positive with his team selection, the likes of Brunt and Berahino have to be sacrificed for players with more creativity and flair.
It also worries me how he talks about the games as if it is Football Manager on the PC, the way he sets the team up with a game plan and instructions on the oppostion. I do hope he doesnt worry too much about what the opposing team are going to do and gives his own players the confidence and freedom to go out and play. Hopefully he will find that balance, how long he gets to find it is another thing. I fear another bad performance against Everton could be the start of a toxic atmosphere.
Anyway, sorry for rambling. What else if there to talk about on a Saturday evening?
We got battered in the first half under Mel and should been out of sight. I remember watching us go to Swansea under Hodgson and we were awful and lost 3-0 too. Same under Clarke when we had that great run before going to Swansea and getting outplayed. We just struggle against these every time and it's very annoying.
I've been reading this forum for donkeys and never usually post on here, but feel compelled to do so after reading this tripe. I honestly feel the quality of our support has never been worse, yet the club is a million times stronger than when I started going to games back in the very early 90's. I remember playing teams like Darlington in the old 3rd division and the support as a kid was bloody fantastic even then. Now it's all prawn sandwiches and fickle fans.
Not saying last season wasn't a shambles and the club screwed up big time but Alan Irvine hasn't done anything wrong so far considering the obstacles of fitness etc he's had to come up against. Knee jerk reactions are exactly what puts clubs into meltdown. Footballs about the long game and there's plenty of time to go this season and it's about time the fans gave him some backing because the boo boys are as guilty as anyone for the situation of last year. Frankly it's disgusting, this thread is a disgrace and if you want multi million pound signings and wins ever week, sod off and support Man City.
Albion's a family and we stick it in thick and thin. The club needs your support not your ill informed, football manager armchair criticism. Those who proudly proclaim they've been supporting the Albion 40 odd years would do well to remember the shambles I walked into as a kid and think long and hard how differently it could all be today before being such poor fans.
Albion till I die.
But we won Pepe Mel was always positive unlike our current head coachNothing to confirm he was any good but at least he was positive.
Nothing to confirm he was any good but at least he was positive.
Man United are in exactly the same position (league wise) as us but have the luxury of bringing in £50M players. Do they have a similar thread or do they believe in giving their coach time to show what they are capable of or not. Three games and players whose contracts still have ink drying on them. ::)
I've been reading this forum for donkeys and never usually post on here, but feel compelled to do so after reading this tripe. I honestly feel the quality of our support has never been worse, yet the club is a million times stronger than when I started going to games back in the very early 90's. I remember playing teams like Darlington in the old 3rd division and the support as a kid was bloody fantastic even then. Now it's all prawn sandwiches and fickle fans.
Not saying last season wasn't a shambles and the club screwed up big time but Alan Irvine hasn't done anything wrong so far considering the obstacles of fitness etc he's had to come up against. Knee jerk reactions are exactly what puts clubs into meltdown. Footballs about the long game and there's plenty of time to go this season and it's about time the fans gave him some backing because the boo boys are as guilty as anyone for the situation of last year. Frankly it's disgusting, this thread is a disgrace and if you want multi million pound signings and wins ever week, sod off and support Man City.
Albion's a family and we stick it in thick and thin. The club needs your support not your ill informed, football manager armchair criticism. Those who proudly proclaim they've been supporting the Albion 40 odd years would do well to remember the shambles I walked into as a kid and think long and hard how differently it could all be today before being such poor fans.
Albion till I die.
Embarrassing thread. Our fans really have become the worst in the country. Other supporters mock us now for our meltdowns over everything.Agree entirely. Ok we haven't been wondrous in our first few games but we have created chances, and we have 11 new players entering the squad. That implies that it will take time to get things sorted and not some instant revolution. Against Sunderland we played well and only got a point, thats football. Last week we created some great chances and put the pressure on a striker playing his first game in English football, but that's football too. How anyone can judge a manager upon 3 premier league games is beyond me. I know last season was no fun whatsoever but i do also appreciate that we are in the toughest league in the country for a reason and can't expect to instantly win games. The man needs time, and it's laughable to call for his head 3 games in in my opinion. If things are as bad in 3 or 4 games time, i will be jumping on the bandwagon but i just can't at this early stage. The thing that does concern me more is our lack of strikers, which is not in the managers hands really.
Seriously how can you judge a manager on 3 games? And when the new signings have yet to feature?
Joke fans
I've been reading this forum for donkeys and never usually post on here, but feel compelled to do so after reading this tripe. I honestly feel the quality of our support has never been worse, yet the club is a million times stronger than when I started going to games back in the very early 90's. I remember playing teams like Darlington in the old 3rd division and the support as a kid was bloody fantastic even then. Now it's all prawn sandwiches and fickle fans.
Not saying last season wasn't a shambles and the club screwed up big time but Alan Irvine hasn't done anything wrong so far considering the obstacles of fitness etc he's had to come up against. Knee jerk reactions are exactly what puts clubs into meltdown. Footballs about the long game and there's plenty of time to go this season and it's about time the fans gave him some backing because the boo boys are as guilty as anyone for the situation of last year. Frankly it's disgusting, this thread is a disgrace and if you want multi million pound signings and wins ever week, sod off and support Man City.
Albion's a family and we stick it in thick and thin. The club needs your support not your ill informed, football manager armchair criticism. Those who proudly proclaim they've been supporting the Albion 40 odd years would do well to remember the shambles I walked into as a kid and think long and hard how differently it could all be today before being such poor fans.
Albion till I die.
You really comparing Alan Irvine with Louis Van Gaal?So, as a proven winner and with a squad worth considerably more than ours he is actually doing worse than Alan Irvine? (Knocked out the cup too) He's gorra gew Tom.
Man Utd fans know they have a proven winner calling the shots and we know we have a proven loser.
So, as a proven winner and with a squad worth considerably more than ours he is actually doing worse than Alan Irvine? (Knocked out the cup too) He's gorra gew Tom.
So, as a proven winner and with a squad worth considerably more than ours he is actually doing worse than Alan Irvine? (Knocked out the cup too) He's gorra gew Tom.stick to this club, terrible appointment, no win`s poor pre season results, no track record just what has the bloke got going for him please explain because i just dont see it or are 80% of us blind !!
Another referral to the 90's. We can't live in the past. Of course we are in a better position now than back then but times change and so do expectations. How long should we just be grateful to be in the EPL. Why can't we say we are now in our 5th consecutive season in the EPL, we've come a long way and should now push on to the next level.
That's it, blame the fans for having an opinion and seeing that appointment was a load of rubbish in the first place.
What the fans are upset about and can see happening is that we will be playing Darlington again very soon.
A poor fan is someone who sits back and lets it happen from their armchair.
And how quickly we forget I seem to remember a young fall back become victim of the boo boys back then can't remember his name Shaun something I think
That's it, blame the fans for having an opinion and seeing that appointment was a load of rubbish in the first place.
What the fans are upset about and can see happening is that we will be playing Darlington again very soon.
A poor fan is someone who sits back and lets it happen from their armchair.
stick to this club, terrible appointment, no win`s poor pre season results, no track record just what has the bloke got going for him please explain because i just dont see it or are 80% of us blind !!Made up statistics always help in a discussion. 80% of.... people in your house, people that you have asked, people registered on this forum, season ticket holders, West Brom supporters, people called hardtobeat?
Made up statistics always help in a discussion. 80% of.... people in your house, people that you have asked, people registered on this forum, season ticket holders, West Brom supporters, people called hardtobeat?80 % of people in a newspaper poll of over 1000 people, you sir would applaud if we appointed the grim reaper just for once stop toeing the party line and accept this bloke has done nothing to justify his appointment!!
The one who actually matters will no doubt fire him when he thinks it appropriate. After three games is not appropriate and given an opportunity and support, which it cannot be denied he is being given from the club, he might prove you wrong.
And what exactly is it that a great fan does to improve the situation?i truly believe the passion is there because i/we care so much and can see this appointment is just so wrong. As i have said before i can see no footballing evidence in the last 5 years that can justify his appointment .
Oh hold on I'll have a go at answering that, protests outside the ground, bed sheet decorations, asks for season ticket refunds, boo's players, coaches & anyone else who doesn't agree with them.
I love The Albion with a passion way beyond my own understanding & have defended the club with said passion over the years when we've come in for pooh from other clubs fans but I NEVER thought I would witness such dingle/villa esque comments from our own fans, I almost wish we did get relegated, maybe we'd lose some of the ridiculous high expectational dreamers.
80 % of people in a newspaper poll of over 1000 people, you sir would applaud if we appointed the grim reaper just for once stop toeing the party line and accept this bloke has done nothing to justify his appointment!!Link?
in my lifetime this is right up there with the appointments of Howe, Wylie ,Gould and Smith and will likely end the same >:(
And what exactly is it that a great fan does to improve the situation?
Oh hold on I'll have a go at answering that, protests outside the ground, bed sheet decorations, asks for season ticket refunds, boo's players, coaches & anyone else who doesn't agree with them.
I love The Albion with a passion way beyond my own understanding & have defended the club with said passion over the years when we've come in for pooh from other clubs fans but I NEVER thought I would witness such dingle/villa esque comments from our own fans, I almost wish we did get relegated, maybe we'd lose some of the ridiculous high expectational dreamers.
Link?it was the e and s poll and i´ve been supporting the club for over fifty years but the power brokers do make mistakes and this is one !!
Supporting the club is what I do. ;-)
Think a decision might be made after the Burnley game. Give him till then and see where we are.
My point is we have a decent squad and no one who knows exactly what to do with them, we were hoping for an appointment where someone would but unfortunately from what I have seen we haven't and i very much doubt over the next 7 games we will get any points.so eloquent and so true
We as fans i very much doubt will go down the Blackburn route, but we want our opinions to be heard and that the appointment the club made which they think was top notch, was actually in fact pathetic. The fact that the majority of supporters knew this at the time, not only at the albion but at previous clubs he managed and knowledgeable fans across the country who took the pee is lost on the club.
We aren't asking for Europe or a top 6 position, we are asking for a team that puts some effort in, organised and entertaining, not entertaining in the way we get hammered every week, which is going to be more than likely against Everton in 2 weeks again. We know the premiership isnt easy but I at least want to see my team grind some results out away from home and at home which we clearly haven't done in the last 18 months.
I'm not going to sit here and type positive stuff and that we will improve under AI, because we should have seen signs of that already. We haven't and at the present time we are worse than last season.
But if that's acceptable to you then fair enough.
it was the e and s poll and i´ve been supporting the club for over fifty years but the power brokers do make mistakes and this is one !!The Wolverhampton based Express and Dingle poll? A good source of representation amongst the intelligent.
I honestly think with some fans, even if Irvine completely turns it around and we have our best ever finish in the league, some people will never accept that he was the right appointment
this will never happen, but i'll be happy to say i was wrong
I think some fans will just hate and never accept the manager no matter whos appointed.
I honestly think that us with Irvine is just like Pardew with Newcastle, Some Newcastle fans have never accepted Pardew because subsequently he failed with Southampton when they were in League One, even a 5th place finish and a european adventure never got their fans onside with the appointment.
I honestly think with some fans, even if Irvine completely turns it around and we have our best ever finish in the league, some people will never accept that he was the right appointment
i'm shocked as much as anyone about the Irvine appointment as it was right wing as it was ever going to get but after one bad performance at swansea (Which we somehow always capitulate badly for some bizarre reason) i'm not going to be out sharpening the knives yet. IMO i still think he will be a big surprise and do really well but thats just a hunch and my opinion.
Nothing to do with hating anyone. I don't know Alan Irvine and have no reason to hate him at all. Even if he is a resounding success at this club (and even the most staunchest person against him would love that as it means we are going places) I will fail to understand how he actually got the job and how we approached him about it. I will never believe that he was the best man available for the job. If he was the best now why was he not the best when Mel was appointed ?
After this international break he has (on paper) the best squad this club has had available for many many years if not ever and he has turn it around and prove himself to everyone watching.
For me I wouldn't be sorry to see him gone today but I am realistic and know that won't happen but if by the end of October we are in the mix at the bottom and are not winning games then Peace has some thinking to do and if he pulls thr trigger then it calls for a new backroom team to come in, no hanging on to the players mate,. Total clear out.
After this international break he has (on paper) the best squad this club has had available for many many years if not ever and he has turn it around and prove himself to everyone watching.
Nothing to do with hating anyone. I don't know Alan Irvine and have no reason to hate him at all. Even if he is a resounding success at this club (and even the most staunchest person against him would love that as it means we are going places) I will fail to understand how he actually got the job and how we approached him about it. I will never believe that he was the best man available for the job. If he was the best now why was he not the best when Mel was appointed ?I agree with what you say there, i honestly think that we are paying the price for having the same stale squad for the last 3 or 4 years and we are only readressing it now. We have to be the most unique club in England structure wise because i haven't seen other clubs do the same as we have.
After this international break he has (on paper) the best squad this club has had available for many many years if not ever and he has turn it around and prove himself to everyone watching.
For me I wouldn't be sorry to see him gone today but I am realistic and know that won't happen but if by the end of October we are in the mix at the bottom and are not winning games then Peace has some thinking to do and if he pulls thr trigger then it calls for a new backroom team to come in, no hanging on to the players mate,. Total clear out.
Irvine out already??? Come on, some people need to get a grip.Most of the players aren't fit yet, give the bloke a chance.
How can we say we have our best squad for years?
Most of the players we've signed none of us have heard of and are un proven in the prem. we have to see them play and settle in before any of us can judge them. They may be great but they could be rubbish. Do any of us really know yet?
We said the same about our squad last season and looked how that worked out, we got rid of 11 of them.
I agree with what you say there, i honestly think that we are paying the price for having the same stale squad for the last 3 or 4 years and we are only readressing it now. We have to be the most unique club in England structure wise because i haven't seen other clubs do the same as we have.
IMO Downing and Kiely being best mates with the players i don't have a problem with but in general No one really cares as long as we are going well whereas if results don't go our way its seen as poisonous and not helping the cause at all. But to be honest if the whole management ended up putting rockets up players butts and shouting at them, it won't do the morale of the players any good and they will resent them which will end up with them getting sacked anyway! The days of managers shouting and screaming at players whenever a result goes bad is over IMO.
We have brought in all these attacking players, but is Irvine adventurous enough to give them a chance?
We have brought in all these attacking players, but is Irvine adventurous enough to give them a chance?
Best squad for years maybe but EVER? Not a chance. Go back 35 years. It was more of a team game than a squad game then but nevertheless still much better quality.
I've seen nothing to suggest that Irvine isn't adventurous. I enjoyed the football we played against Sunderland and Southampton. We were beaten by a very good team today but we will get better. I remember similar concerns when Swansea outplayed us under Hodgson and beat us 3-0. Swansea away just seems to be a very difficult game for us.
I've seen nothing to suggest that Irvine isn't adventurous. I enjoyed the football we played against Sunderland and Southampton. We were beaten by a very good team today but we will get better. I remember similar concerns when Swansea outplayed us under Hodgson and beat us 3-0. Swansea away just seems to be a very difficult game for us.
As someone who pushed for Koeman, Schaaf and later Sherwood to be appointed, I was completely underwhelmed by Irvine. He was nowhere on my radar. He seems to have prioritised getting defensive players in, some of whom we saw today. That would seem to fit in with a philosophy of setting teams up not to get beaten.
But, I will withhold a verdict on him at least until we see Valera, Blanco and Samaras, and you have to allow new players some time to gel as a unit. That's if he uses them. We have to see what the balance between defensive/holding players and creative/attacking players will be.
Also, I hope that Irvine is not going to blame the result on individual errors. Errors are made by all players at the highest levels. What he has to look at, is how he sets the team up, to contain the opposition or go out to win.
However, the signs are not good. Its not that we just were beaten by Swansea, it's how we set up that bothered me. If we had come out and taken the game to Swansea and got beaten 3-2, I would be more hopeful. But we set out to contain Swansea with too many similar players and nobody able to make runs forward behind the Swansea defence. Except for Sess, by which time the game was lost.
We cannot let this fester, Leeds and the mad Sicilian have shown us the way. Wield the axe Jeremy and trim the coaching staff while you're at it.
we always lose against swansea so this result no surprise, at the hawthorns we need to play small technical players like gamboa, blanco, sessegnon, dorrans and play wisdom at centre back.
we always lose against swansea so this result no surprise,
As someone who pushed for Koeman, Schaaf and later Sherwood to be appointed, I was completely underwhelmed by Irvine. He was nowhere on my radar. He seems to have prioritised getting defensive players in, some of whom we saw today. That would seem to fit in with a philosophy of setting teams up not to get beaten.He did
But, I will withhold a verdict on him at least until we see Valera, Blanco and Samaras, and you have to allow new players some time to gel as a unit. That's if he uses them. We have to see what the balance between defensive/holding players and creative/attacking players will be.
However, the signs are not good. Its not that we just were beaten by Swansea, it's how we set up that bothered me. If we had come out and taken the game to Swansea and got beaten 3-2, I would be more hopeful. But we set out to contain Swansea with too many similar players and nobody able to make runs forward behind the Swansea defence. Except for Sess, by which time the game was lost.
Also, I hope that Irvine is not going to blame the result on individual errors. Errors are made by all players at the highest levels. What he has to look at, is how he sets the team up, to contain the opposition or go out to win.
The Wolverhampton based Express and Dingle poll? A good source of representation amongst the intelligent.i am intrigued as to why in footballing terms as to why i and any others should blindly support Irvines appointment, i have searched diligently and see no logical reason as to why he got the job !
.
It maybe Irvine is a lemon and after the International break he is not using the tools he has been given and we are showing no signs of improvement and then maybe it will be a more reasonable time to judge him.
i am intrigued as to why in footballing terms as to why i and any others should blindly support Irvines appointment, i have searched diligently and see no logical reason as to why he got the job !
Who exactly do people expect would come in?
We went for Irvine because we had barely any options in the first place. Yet alone starting the season with a squad not their own playing catch up to the rest of the league. The club's entire set up instantly rules out 90% of managers. You'll get people calling for Pulis no doubt, but that would never happen, he's an old school manager who would never work with the lack of control here.
The only people available for the job the way we work is either people new to management like Clarke was, or older coaches who've failed before and would take any job like Irvine. You're not going to get quality experienced track record coaches coming here.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/06/19/west-broms-terry-burton-alan-irvine-is-the-best-coach-in-the-uk/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/06/19/west-broms-terry-burton-alan-irvine-is-the-best-coach-in-the-uk/)
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/06/19/west-broms-terry-burton-alan-irvine-is-the-best-coach-in-the-uk/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/06/19/west-broms-terry-burton-alan-irvine-is-the-best-coach-in-the-uk/)Sorry thats just the party line. If thats really the case how come he hasnt been working in a first team environment for so long??
Sorry thats just the party line. If thats really the case how come he hasnt been working in a first team environment for so long??
That's just propaganda. He doesn't really believe that. I'd back my staff to a third party even if I knew they were dog pooh.
I'd kill to have Mowbray back at the club.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/06/19/west-broms-terry-burton-alan-irvine-is-the-best-coach-in-the-uk/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/06/19/west-broms-terry-burton-alan-irvine-is-the-best-coach-in-the-uk/)
I've said it elsewhere but (and I was very anti on appointment) we surely can't judge him until the players he's brought in become involved collectively. I feel he's a bit of a sitting duck at the minute.
I agree to an extent with the issues people have regarding to the fitness of the newbies but if it means we have an excellent team in the long run its beneficial surely. People are knocking him as playing defensive football but the players brought in are quite the opposite, we have to give the bloke a chance, I've been impressed with the appointments and I'm pretty hard to please, let's see how we are doing in a month or two before getting too negative. We haven't even seen half of the new additions yet.
I think we need a touch of realism and look at the fact that we have 11 new signings into the club, most not match fit and even when they are they will more than likely need time to settle in and get to know each other.We have already :D :D
Like it or not we have what we have for a season at least, swapping and changing the manager every time we loose a few and we could end up with more managers than wins.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/06/19/west-broms-terry-burton-alan-irvine-is-the-best-coach-in-the-uk/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/06/19/west-broms-terry-burton-alan-irvine-is-the-best-coach-in-the-uk/)
If after 10 games we are looking in dire straits, than we should look at Plan B...with all the action we have taken in the close season we do not deserve to be in that position...but football, like life, is not fair and if we have to take action then we must...but we ain't anywhere near there yet.
http://coachdaveblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/early-days-or-numbered-days-for-alan.html?m=1 (http://coachdaveblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/early-days-or-numbered-days-for-alan.html?m=1)
Good relevant blog
He's not going anywhere. We've seen this sort of performance from Albion at Swansea many times, under Hodgson, under Clarke, Under Mel we should have been out of sight at half time too. Whenever we go to Swansea we seem to really struggle against them.
I think we need a touch of realism and look at the fact that we have 11 new signings into the club, most not match fit and even when they are they will more than likely need time to settle in and get to know each other.Can anyone explain to me why half (?) the players that we bought in are not match fit and need time to gel etc, when every other team seems to buy players who go straight into their side? Seriously?
Like it or not we have what we have for a season at least, swapping and changing the manager every time we loose a few and we could end up with more managers than wins.
Can anyone explain to me why half (?) the players that we bought in are not match fit and need time to gel etc, when every other team seems to buy players who go straight into their side? Seriously?Because it is a myth.
Anybody with me that the team selection against Everton will be the same that started against Southampton despite the 2 weeks he will have with most of the new players, and consequently propping up the table come 2 weeks today.
He's already on thin ice lose to Everton and spurs and none of the new men appear he'll be gone
Praise the lord, not that i want us to loose football matches mind, trouble is whis this bloke in charge who shouldnt be there anyway, i just cant see us winning a single game
I think that feeling of thinking 'I can't see us winning another game' stretches back to last season.
Not at all, I always fancied our chances with Mel in charge.
Me too, defensive frailties no better i see
There is no way we're better off now than we were at the end of last season. Coaching Staff wise.
I think Mel could have done something with the players we have at our disposal now. I have much less faith Irvine.
Agree entirely King Koren, Mel would have got these players integrated into the team already. Time will tell in two weeks time if AI picks the same 11 then he needs to be sacked.But that's not actually true is it? Mel failed to man manage the squad we had so to suggest that he could integrate our new players is fanciful. Mel is being put on to a pedestal that he neither earned nor necessarily deserves. Bloke wasn't given a chance, granted, but can we say this one is either?
It is Irvine's jobs to make sure that the players are fit and ready for selection
But that's not actually true is it? Mel failed to man manage the squad we had so to suggest that he could integrate our new players is fanciful. Mel is being put on to a pedestal that he neither earned nor necessarily deserves. Bloke wasn't given a chance, granted, but can we say this one is either?
far too many "fickle fans" on this board
if Irvine had won his first 3 you would ALL be up his a**e and going on about how good peace was to pick him up.
far too many "fickle fans" on this board
if Irvine had won his first 3 you would ALL be up his a**e and going on about how good peace was to pick him up.
far too many "fickle fans" on this board
if Irvine had won his first 3 you would ALL be up his a**e and going on about how good peace was to pick him up.
far too many "fickle fans" on this boardHe didn't though did he.
if Irvine had won his first 3 you would ALL be up his a**e and going on about how good peace was to pick him up.
But we haven't won the first 3 have we! let's see where we are after the next three games
far too many "fickle fans" on this board
if Irvine had won his first 3 you would ALL be up his a**e and going on about how good peace was to pick him up.
I don't think anybody is being fickle to be honest.
Members on this forum are quite rightly expressing their opinions whether they are positive or negative and they're allowed to do so without being described as 'fickle'.
As it stands, we haven't won any of our opening three games and after yesterdays complete non-show they are deserving of the criticism.
Every pundit and the vast majority of Albion fans will be proved right in the next month that Alan Irvine one excuse after another is not a Premiership coach. the lessons of last year have not been learnt poor player recruitment and before i get shot down why sign players who are unfit the premiership starts in August not October and we have a Fixture list that will make it very very difficult to get points in the final run-in.
So starting threads Irvine out, Kiely out & Downing out after three games isn't fickle, I'd say bulldog has got it spot on.The problem is that many fans myself included can see nothing in Irvines cv that says he will massively improve us quickly. Its not wishing him ill its a matter of wanting/needing somebody with the nous to steer us through this season if that means somebody other than Irvine then the longer he gets the better.
So starting threads Irvine out, Kiely out & Downing out after three games isn't fickle, I'd say bulldog has got it spot on.
lol people are still talking about pepe mel, the only positive he brought is keeping dorrans
I don't think anybody is being fickle to be honest.I agree they aren't fickle they are just unrealistic. Bringing in 11 players and expecting them to gel immediately would challenge any coach.
Members on this forum are quite rightly expressing their opinions whether they are positive or negative and they're allowed to do so without being described as 'fickle'.
As it stands, we haven't won any of our opening three games and after yesterdays complete non-show they are deserving of the criticism.
I agree they aren't fickle they are just unrealistic. Bringing in 11 players and expecting them to gel immediately would challenge any coach.Spurs last season are proof of that. I just think people wanted not only organisation but a bit of attacking and fight from the team, that seems to have been lost!
The problem is that many fans myself included can see nothing in Irvines cv that says he will massively improve us quickly. Its not wishing him ill its a matter of wanting/needing somebody with the nous to steer us through this season if that means somebody other than Irvine then the longer he gets the better.
So starting threads Irvine out, Kiely out & Downing out after three games isn't fickle, I'd say bulldog has got it spot on.
Not sure it's really that fickle. Fickle would mean everyone saying he was great to start with, and now criticising after his first defeat. I think a lot of folk have been pretty consistent in their views on Irvine from the off. Now whether you agree with those views is another thing entirely.
Maybe you need to flick back a few pages to just after the first 2 games & then flick back a bit more to before the season kicked off, I think 'fickle' is a tidy description.
I do get it mate, I really do get the fact that many don't/didn't want him, every second post I read says the same, with respect you all don't need to keep telling us............... we know.
The post I responded to was a reference as to whether or not there are many 'fickle' fans on here, Liam disagreed & I agreed, simple as that.
For the record, I doubt you will find many Albion fans (myself included) that were happy with the appointment, its just that a few (myself included) are prepared to give him a chance & see what we're like once he has a fully fit squad to choose from & certainly not starting embarrassing threads demanding the removal of the entire coaching staff.
Problem is the first 2 games weren't that good, they could be described as slightly better than expected. But to my mind, throwing away 2 points at home to a relegation rival and then parking the bus away at a relegation rival is not a successful start.
Please expand :-\
We parked the bus at Southampton who will be 14th or below come May.
I agree with that, but my gripe with Irvine is he has done exactly what was predicted, played very negative football and worse, when twice in winning positions, he has made negative substitutions that have cost us goals.There is no way of knowing whether the substitution has cost us goals or not but if it suits your arguement we can accept it as fact ;) (Sunderland scored down our right hand side which was completely unchanged from the start.)
You could make the case that we parked the bus yesterday too..
We parked the bus at Southampton who will be 14th or below come May.
You could make the case that we parked the bus yesterday too..
There is no way of knowing whether the substitution has cost us goals or not but if it suits your arguement we can accept it as fact ;) (Sunderland scored down our right hand side which was completely unchanged from the start.)
Bloody worked as well :o
for 90 seconds ::)
I'm really struggling to work out if you're just on a WU to be honest, firstly, we DIDN'T 'park the bus' at Southampton, secondly, do you have a crystal ball to back up that statement of finishing 14th? & finally, how does 14th equate to a relegation rival?.
& finally, how does 14th equate to a relegation rival?.
I initially wrote we parked the bus but left the doors and windows open but I was slightly worried it didn't make any sense :DIf we had started with Baird, Mulumbu, Yacob and Gardner with non attacking full backs I would accept we parked the bus. We actually failed because, Dorrans and Brunt particularly, failed to link with either the back four or the front one/two.
Even at 2-0 the bus was still parked because we still couldn't cross the cowin half way line!
14th or below... they could finish 14th 1 point above the team in 18th... It's you on the wind-up.
I went to Southampton and saw first hand us parking the bus. In interviews after the game Soton players accused us of parking the bus. The media in the ensuing week said we parked the bus.
QED we parked the bus.
Teams that "have a go" generally do better thats a FACT!Or even an opinion ;D
Sunderland finished 14th last season and up until they beat us a week or two before the season finished they had spent most of the season behind us so I think it's safe to say that even if you do finish 14th you're likely to have been in a relegation battle throughout the season.
In the season before Southampton finished 14th and were only four points off the relegation zone and they had spent most of that season fighting relegation.
Oh well, if the Southampton players said it & the media (haha) said it & of course 'you' said it, it MUST be true, maybe we should all just believe what we're told & not bother to have an opinion of what we see with our own eyes.
Took two points off a relegation rival at home. Good work Alan Irvine ;-)
14th or below... they could finish 14th 1 point above the team in 18th... It's you on the wind-up.
I went to Southampton and saw first hand us parking the bus. In interviews after the game Soton players accused us of parking the bus. The media in the ensuing week said we parked the bus.
QED we parked the bus.
That's what I'm doing. You're very confrontational aren't you? Almost as if you're determined to go against the grain irrespective of what is actually happening before your eyes just to be different.
far too many "fickle fans" on this boardhe hasn't though has he, hes done what a lot of fans expected him to do. play negative boring football.
if Irvine had won his first 3 you would ALL be up his a**e and going on about how good peace was to pick him up.
I agree they aren't fickle they are just unrealistic. Bringing in 11 players and expecting them to gel immediately would challenge any coach.
We're now 4 points down on the corresponding fixtures last season...Don't see point of comparing to last year.
We're now 4 points down on the corresponding fixtures last season...
I don't look at the table until 10 games in.
Don't see point of comparing to last year.Exactly mate but we were still good enough to beat them. Now WE have Irvine............speaks volumes
Swansea have had a flyer this season, when we played them last year, they were very poor at the time.
Ditto Sunderland, who were awful under Di Canio but now have Poyet
I don't look at the table until 10 games in.
We'll be on the same points but 2 places lower
We'll finish in the top ten.
Can the non fickle fans tell me what they expect Irvine to do with this time we should be giving him?
I keep hearing how we should be ashamed for wanting him out, but not why we should keep him.
We have new players yes, but he had more experienced attacking options available yesterday but stuck to his m.o and picked a narrow, negative side. Why do we think he will suddenly become more adventurous when the new blokes are fit?
He doesn't pick Sess who is a proven prem forward, why will he pick Valera, who isn't?
I hope I'm wrong but I don't think he has the balls to go for it. He never has before.
He didn't play Sess because Dorrans didn't deserve to be dropped before the Swansea game. I can't see how a team with Ideye, Berahino, Brunt and Dorrans can be classed as a negative side. Let's see where we are at Christmas time.i think you're missing the point, its not the players he picks its the way he sets them up that's negative. He could have started all the new players on Saturday and we'd still have played the same way as it how he sets up in games.
He didn't play Sess because Dorrans didn't deserve to be dropped before the Swansea game. I can't see how a team with Ideye, Berahino, Brunt and Dorrans can be classed as a negative side. Let's see where we are at Christmas time.Sorry but I think this Dorrans thing is a misnomer. He has had a slight resurgence, but he is still nowhere near his best, certainly not creatively. no way he should start ahead of Sess.
Lets just hope JP is bored with this rubbish negative football like most of us on here are
I thought we played some very good football against Sunderland and were a lot better going forward than we were at the back. Southampton was a hard earned draw and there is no denying that we were absolute rubbish against Swansea.
I don't understand how anyone can comment on Irvine's style with us by only really using one away game as the benchmark for it though ???
I thought we played some very good football against Sunderland and were a lot better going forward than we were at the back. Southampton was a hard earned draw and there is no denying that we were absolute rubbish against Swansea.
I don't understand how anyone can comment on Irvine's style with us by only really using one away game as the benchmark for it though ???
I thought we played some very good football against Sunderland and were a lot better going forward than we were at the back. Southampton was a hard earned draw and there is no denying that we were absolute rubbish against Swansea.
I don't understand how anyone can comment on Irvine's style with us by only really using one away game as the benchmark for it though ???
Agreed, football fans have no patience these days. I've also seen no evidence of negative football.
You obviously didn't see us v Oxford then. It was painful.
and then Swansea
And Sunderland once we took the lead
and then Swansea
First defeat of the season and he's got to go :-[ Was at a football quiz last night and the way the fans from other clubs were taking the P**s out of us for wanting our manager sacked after ONE defeat was embarrassing.Probably the same fans who were taking the p**s when we appointed him.
And Sunderland once we took the lead
You see I remember Albion fans last season saying Mel should have shut up shop when we were 3-2 up against Cardiff. All our players went running up the pitch and got caught out. Can't win either way it seems.Totally different scenario, that was with seconds on the clock, not 30 minutes.
You see I remember Albion fans last season saying Mel should have shut up shop when we were 3-2 up against Cardiff. All our players went running up the pitch and got caught out. Can't win either way it seems.
First defeat of the season and he's got to go :-[ Was at a football quiz last night and the way the fans from other clubs were taking the P**s out of us for wanting our manager sacked after ONE defeat was embarrassing.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/09/01/west-broms-craig-gardner-backs-his-boss/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/09/01/west-broms-craig-gardner-backs-his-boss/)Can someone please give me some evidence to support this 'Fantastic Coach' tagline???
West Brom's Craig Gardner backs his boss
Irvine’s men were beaten 3-0 by the Swans to leave them with two points from their opening three Premier League games of Irvine’s reign.
But Gardner insisted the Scot will get it right once all his summer signings are fit.
“Every time I do an interview I am asked about the manager and I keep saying you can’t appreciate how good he is until you work with him and listen to him,†said Gardner.
“He’s a brilliant coach he tells us what to do and talks a lot. He knows football inside out and he has been great to us.
“We’re three games into the season so talking about time for the manager is rubbish, to be honest.â€
The Baggies were 1-0 down after 88 seconds at the Liberty Stadium and never recovered, leaving Gardner to thank the 1,400 travelling fans for their support.
“Everyone in the changing room is disappointed,†said the summer signing. “We had had a good start to the season and we went to Swansea and got beaten 3-0.
“But we’ve got to pick ourselves up and go again. We’re all in it together and there’s no ‘I’ in team. “There are no individuals and we have to respond as a team.
“I just want to say thanks to the fans for travelling and supporting us and singing for us and we want to put it right for them.
“It’s not the end of the season. We have to build and move forward.â€
Just out of interest has anyone looked at the BBC stats for our three league matches?
V Sunderland
10 shots (5 on target) v 7 shots (2 on target)
Corners 6 v 3
V Soton
8 shots (2) v 9 shots (2)
Corners 5 v 1
V Swansea
16 shots (2) v 15 shots (8)
Corners 7 v 0
So in all the negative set up matches that we have had, we have had more attacking attempts than the opposition. Amazing how history is written.
Just out of interest has anyone looked at the BBC stats for our three league matches?
V Sunderland
10 shots (5 on target) v 7 shots (2 on target)
Corners 6 v 3
V Soton
8 shots (2) v 9 shots (2)
Corners 5 v 1
V Swansea
16 shots (2) v 15 shots (8)
Corners 7 v 0
So in all the negative set up matches that we have had, we have had more attacking attempts than the opposition. Amazing how history is written.
Draw
Draw
Loss
League Position 18th
those are the only statistics that matter
With 11 players in this window it will take time for them to get fit and bed in. Having said that in my opinion we now have a strong squad and one that is equipped to stay up and reach mid table safety. The financial consequences of relegation now I suspect would be unthinkable given the changes. Man for man our squad is now stronger than half the teams in the league so it will be down to coaching, motivation and fitness? So how long do we give Irvine to get the results this squad should be getting? I suspect end of November? If results do not improve after this big investment we will be right to ask questions of Irvine?
It's early days still but I'd say not personally. Half the squad have contributed to a woeful 18 months and the other half are unknown quantities. Some of our signings appear no better than players we let go IMO.Billy Jones maybe better at right back, if he was fit, struggling elsewhere to see who else hasn't (potentially) been replaced by someone better?
Can someone please give me some evidence to support this 'Fantastic Coach' tagline???
I have seen nothing during pre-season or in the first 3 games to suggest he is any such thing. Even in the 2 games where we played ok, we were a bit rubbish defending set plays and showed little creativity.
It's like Downing all over again, players seem to love singing his praises, but none of his skills seem to manifest on the pitch when it matters.
Can I ask a polite question? Why do you need evidence? Many people within the game have said he's a very good coach, his players have come out & said he's a brilliant coach, JP must think he is a good enough coach to trust him with all the quality players he's bought, would it make difference if he had a big piece of paper saying "this man is a Fantastic Coach" printed at the top?Of course we need evidence. We need something that we can see with our own eyes, not soundbites from people with a vested interest.
Regards the rest of the post, if you want to throw the Oxford & Swansea performance's at me then I have no answer but I would say that very rarely do any teams play at their full potential week in week out (let alone one that has 11 new players to integrate), is it beyond the realms of possibility that once we have a fully fit squad we will start to see more consistently decent performances?
Billy Jones maybe better at right back, if he was fit, struggling elsewhere to see who else hasn't (potentially) been replaced by someone better?
Of course we need evidence. We need something that we can see with our own eyes, not soundbites from people with a vested interest.
A big piece of paper would mean about as much as a piece in the Express and Star, which was what I responded to.
It is not beyond the realms no and I would like nothing more than for that to happen, unfortunately everything I have seen so far backs the views of the Preston / Sheff Wed fans more than it does that of the 'Great coach' brigade.
As I have stated before, I am not anti Irvine, I want him to succeed for the sake of the club, but in order to do that he has to show a massive shift change from what his approach has been throughout his career. If, when we have better attacking options available, he comes out fighting and having a go, he will get my support, win or lose.
I just don't think he has the balls.
How about his coaching abilities turning Preston from relegation candidates to play offs in one season with one of the leagues smallest budgets. Sheff Wed were in a mess before he came in. What's this obsession with attacking, sounding like West Ham fans and the "West Ham way".
You see I remember Albion fans last season saying Mel should have shut up shop when we were 3-2 up against Cardiff. All our players went running up the pitch and got caught out. Can't win either way it seems.
Well you see now you're stating facts, as apposed to some random Preston/SheffWed fan(s)?? whining about Alan Irvine being negative blah blah blah............... sound familiar?Same tactics that got him sacked before Xmas the following season.
I actually agree with you Jacko!
Wisdom, Gardner, Pocognoli, Baird all have essentially had a proper pre-seaon. Davidson has had most of pre-season with us, hasn't he? Could have sworn he went out to America.
So that's 5 of 11 who've had most of a pre-season.
Ideye has been deemed fit enough to start two games recently, so that's 6 out of 11. Over half.
Haha even a broken clock is right twice a day mate. ;D :o
Sheff Wed were in a mess before he came in
I find this line hard to take to be honest because it gets used as a cover up to mask Irvine's appalling reign at Sheffield Wednesday. In the three seasons prior to Irvine's arrival the club had finish in mid-table around the 13th and 14th mark and had also challenged for a play off position under Brian Laws. There was no doubting that during his first season the club had some financial difficulties but the squad largely remained the same as the one which finished the previous season in 14th. The style of football was extremely negative and as we have seen so far there was a willingness to draw football games which ended up costing them dearly as they were relegated. During that season he was questioned by Radio Sheffield regarding why he was settling for draws when the club needed wins. His response was nothing short of patronising insisting he had the coaching badges and anybody elses opinion was more or less irrelevant. The team was dis-jointed, it lacked very little cohesion and if truth be told never really improved. It was football which made Megson's sides look like Barcelona.
During that summer the club were purchased by Milan Mandaric who provided Irvine with funds to reshape the squad - in excess of £1.5million and an increased wage bill. Those who he purchased were poor buys. Despite an OK start the results and performances once again nose-dived to the point where the club were facing a relegation battle in league one. They were hopelessly outclassed by Yeovil in a 2-2 draw at Hillsborough where they were lucky to hang onto a point - this was 9 man Yeovil as well by the way - it took a late equaliser from Jermaine Johnson to save them from a defeat. That wasn't the only horrific result, there was the 4-0 home defeat against Leyton Orient and the result which forced Mandaric to act was a 5-1 defeat away at Exeter. That season needed Gary Megson to guide them to survival and the following season they ended up getting promoted.
There were players in that squad that dubbed Alan Irvine as a good coach too and there is obviously substance too it but unfortunately the results and his performances of his previous teams hardly leave you inspired do they? Alan Irvine's stint at Wednesday is also widely described as the worst part in their history by their supporters.
I think he took on a really tough job at Sheff Wed and it was probably not right for him and it was probably not right for Wednesday too. I think sometimes in football you just need to get an opportunity to prove yourself at a higher level and Irvine has that now at a well run football club with a talented squad of players for him to work with. Steve Clarke for example most likely wouldn't have ever been considered by any other Premier League team except for Albion and he led us to our highest Premier League finish. Early days but at the moment it appears that our coaching staff are working well together with the players and if our scouting system continues to improve and find good quality players then we're heading in the right direction.Now I have a problem with this, good squad and good coaching does not have to result in success. Tactical Nous, taking the initiative, reacting to problems in games, reacting to injuries in games, etc, etc these are all factors which affect outcomes, this is the area where AI has to prove himself.
I think he took on a really tough job at Sheff Wed and it was probably not right for him and it was probably not right for Wednesday too. I think sometimes in football you just need to get an opportunity to prove yourself at a higher level and Irvine has that now at a well run football club with a talented squad of players for him to work with. Steve Clarke for example most likely wouldn't have ever been considered by any other Premier League team except for Albion and he led us to our highest Premier League finish. Early days but at the moment it appears that our coaching staff are working well together with the players and if our scouting system continues to improve and find good quality players then we're heading in the right direction.
I couldn't care less if he gets a lawn chair and cigar out, if only he could get them playing decent togger and win a few games.Playing with their todgers isn't going to improve things on the pitch! :P :P :P :P
I would like to think the first win and improved performances start a week saturday.Ok we played ok against Sunderland and Southampton but these games are as easy as they get.Just look at the rest.
Lets give them all including Irvine a rousing reception at the next home game.Our 10th league game is Leicester and by then i would like to see at least 3 wins
I would like to think the first win and improved performances start a week saturday.Ok we played ok against Sunderland and Southampton but these games are as easy as they get.Just look at the rest.
Lets give them all including Irvine a rousing reception at the next home game.Our 10th league game is Leicester and by then i would like to see at least 3 wins
Since when has Southampton away been easy as they get ? Absolute shocking statement. :o
I find this line hard to take to be honest because it gets used as a cover up to mask Irvine's appalling reign at Sheffield Wednesday. In the three seasons prior to Irvine's arrival the club had finish in mid-table around the 13th and 14th mark and had also challenged for a play off position under Brian Laws. There was no doubting that during his first season the club had some financial difficulties but the squad largely remained the same as the one which finished the previous season in 14th.
The style of football was extremely negative and as we have seen so far there was a willingness to draw football games which ended up costing them dearly as they were relegated. During that season he was questioned by Radio Sheffield regarding why he was settling for draws when the club needed wins. His response was nothing short of patronising insisting he had the coaching badges and anybody elses opinion was more or less irrelevant. The team was dis-jointed, it lacked very little cohesion and if truth be told never really improved. It was football which made Megson's sides look like Barcelona.
During that summer the club were purchased by Milan Mandaric who provided Irvine with funds to reshape the squad - in excess of £1.5million and an increased wage bill. Those who he purchased were poor buys.
Despite an OK start the results and performances once again nose-dived to the point where the club were facing a relegation battle in league one. They were hopelessly outclassed by Yeovil in a 2-2 draw at Hillsborough where they were lucky to hang onto a point - this was 9 man Yeovil as well by the way - it took a late equaliser from Jermaine Johnson to save them from a defeat. That wasn't the only horrific result, there was the 4-0 home defeat against Leyton Orient and the result which forced Mandaric to act was a 5-1 defeat away at Exeter.
That season needed Gary Megson to guide them to survival and the following season they ended up getting promoted.
There were players in that squad that dubbed Alan Irvine as a good coach too and there is obviously substance too it but unfortunately the results and his performances of his previous teams hardly leave you inspired do they?
Alan Irvine's stint at Wednesday is also widely described as the worst part in their history by their supporters.
Doffs cap :)
Quakes, thats one of the best posts I've read on here, especially since AI was appointed, it basically shows that when chinese whispers start, it is far too easy to pass on what others have said as fact, where in most cases its purely opinions, sadly, I'm pretty sure some of the 'Irvine outers' on here will attempt to poo poo the post despite the factual & well informed nature of it.
That's exactly what I thought when i read it.
Southampton and Swansea away are games that I think only top 6 clubs go to expecting a result.
all we've done so far that is a little disapointing is not get the 3 points against Sunderland at home, but that's hardly a disaster!! Some on here love to be miserable.
Sadly, Everton are on the up I think and I'd be chuffed with a point, but should be lose the AI out stuff will really kick in, which is a joke.
When were not playing the top 6 we should be going into the rest of the games with an expectation of winning.
When were going to places like Swansea and treating it as a damage limitation exercise then it's really time to panic.
Leicester managed to fight back twice against Leicester to get a point, I don't think our lot could fight their way out of a wet paper bag. I thoroughly expect a week surrender in the next game.
It't not a case of people being miserable. Some people choose to see the reality while others turn a blind eye to it.
As for Alan Irvine the rest of the Premier League is laughing at us (rightfully so) and quite frankly is embarassing.
Liam, I know you aren't lying. I know you truly believe all this to be factual. But the more I read about Irvine at Sheffield Wednesday, the more he looks like a massive fan scapegoat.
Brian Laws was sacked in December 2009 with the club in the relegation zone.
W D L pts
Brian Laws 4 6 11 18
Under Irvine the club performed better. They would have finished mid-table again with Irvine's 1.2 points per game for the entire season.
W D L pts
Alan Irvine 7 7 9 28
Whatever it looked like, the truth is that the team did improve and returned to form under Irvine. I'm not disputing the negativity, only the false assertion that Irvine didn't get a lot more points than Laws did.
No, Mandarić agreed to purchase the club on 29 November (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/nov/29/sheffield-wednesday-sold-milan-mandaric), the day before the club were due to enter administration. The deal was completed on 14 December. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sheff_wed/9226161.stm) Irvine was sacked four days after the January transfer window closed. Admittedly, that's longer than some of our fans were willing to give him, but four days?
And as an example of what Irvine had to put up with, Wednesday lost their last scout when Laws was sacked (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1358099/Whatever-happened-Sheffield-Wednesday.html). They had no scouts at all during Irvine's entire tenure. (They were skint.)
Leyton Orient was an away game. The Exeter loss was Mandarić's first game as owner. He sacked Irvine after a 5-3 loss to Peterborough. Every one of those terrible results occurred in the first six league games after Mandarić bought the club.
In fact, on 11 December, three days before Mandarić bought the club, Irvine had them in 2nd place, coming off a 6-2 win over Bristol Rovers. After Mandarić bought the club, the next six league games were the total, complete, utter disaster that has been used with which to persecute Irvine ever since.
Every time I see 'failed in League One', a phrase I have come to loathe, it's someone using these six games under new ownership to write off his entire career. I have absolutely no idea what happened between Irvine and Mandarić, but those six games were the result.
That is simply not the case. They fared worse under Megson, falling from 12th to 15th.
W D L pts GF GA
Alan Irvine 10 5 11 35 41 35
Gary Megson 6 5 9 23 26 32
Admittedly not. But this post is not about winning an argument with you or convincing anyone that Irvine is great, it's about bringing some desperately-needed balance and facts to this repulsive thread. We can't even have a sensible discussion about Irvine's faults with all the unreasonable hostility on display. I'm certainly not going to have a conversation with someone who can muster only 'League One failure' or 'certs to be relegated', even if he does post it six times a day. (I'm not referring to you, of course.)
One might think coming 24 hours from administration might have featured in there, but clearly something about Irvine induces...contempt? disgust? incoherent rage? amongst supporters. It's not connected to wins and losses, as definitely others have done worse.
but the opinion that he is one of the worst managers ever is an opinion shared by many, you only have to read the forums and social networks to establish that.forums are not necessarily a good representation of a clubs fan base . If someone read this forum they would have been expecting a massive protest about the appointment of Irvine together with hundreds of people returning their Season tickets .Didn't actually happen though did it?
When were not playing the top 6 we should be going into the rest of the games with an expectation of winning.
When were going to places like Swansea and treating it as a damage limitation exercise then it's really time to panic.
Leicester managed to fight back twice against Leicester to get a point, I don't think our lot could fight their way out of a wet paper bag. I thoroughly expect a week surrender in the next game.
It't not a case of people being miserable. Some people choose to see the reality while others turn a blind eye to it.
As for Alan Irvine the rest of the Premier League is laughing at us (rightfully so) and quite frankly is embarassing.
forums are not necessarily a good representation of a clubs fan base . If someone read this forum they would have been expecting a massive protest about the appointment of Irvine together with hundreds of people returning their Season tickets .Didn't actually happen though did it?
Forums give people the opportunity to voice an opinion that wouldn't get given the time of day in the real world. l have little doubt that a number of Sheff Wed fans disliked Alan Irvine but there is a silent majority who may not hold a similar view . If we won the world cup under Roy Hodgson there would be someone somewhere criticising his selections , and questioning his tactics . Judge Irvine on what he does here , not on someone elses view of his past.
forums are not necessarily a good representation of a clubs fan base . If someone read this forum they would have been expecting a massive protest about the appointment of Irvine together with hundreds of people returning their Season tickets .Didn't actually happen though did it?
Forums give people the opportunity to voice an opinion that wouldn't get given the time of day in the real world. l have little doubt that a number of Sheff Wed fans disliked Alan Irvine but there is a silent majority who may not hold a similar view . If we won the world cup under Roy Hodgson there would be someone somewhere criticising his selections , and questioning his tactics . Judge Irvine on what he does here , not on someone elses view of his past.
I wasn't enamoured with Irvine's selection. However I'm solely judging him as WBA manager. So far he's been woeful. He seems weak, lacks charisma, panders to a clique, lacks personality, lacks passion. He seems a very slow learner. Why are we still selecting the same rubbish from last season? Why not think on your feet a little? Along with Burnley we are without doubt the worse team in league. Continuing along this path will result in relegation. We have no option but to turn to the new signings. The longstanding core players by and large have failed.
I don't buy your following comparisons because quite frankly they are stats pulled from the sky because Irvine wasn't there for the full season. There are other stats from that season which don't paint Irvine in a positive light either, one win in their last twelve league games, or two in their last 16 as the club surrendered and inevitably ended up relegated.
Such was Alan Irvine's negativity that towards the end of the season in a crunch game against Cardiff the side having got back on level terms sat back and eventually minutes after conceded and eventually lost the game 3-2. Even against Palace after grabbing an equaliser in a game they had to win, Irvine replaced one of their forwards with a midfielder - they eventually drew the game but were relegated.
There was also the occasion where Alan Irvine ordered for the pitch to be extended and then played Chris Sedgwick and James O'Connor as his wide men in an extremely narrow midfield (something we've seen here so far).
My timing of Mandaric's purchase of the club is wrong but I knew he was given money to re-shape his squad - He signed Gary Madine on a fee around £800,000 alongside Michael Morrison, Reda Johnson, Issiah Osbourne and Mark Reynolds as highlighted in this article (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/feb/03/alan-irvine-sheffield-wednesday-sacked). I think he may have signed Julian Bennett too but don't quote me on that.
Alan Irvine isn't hated either, far from it, disliked for his dour, unimaginative football but certainly not hated. The only manager they have hated in recent times was Dave Jones, but the opinion that he is one of the worst managers ever is an opinion shared by many, you only have to read the forums and social networks to establish that.
Weak in what way? I don't see what charisma has to do with anything, Mel showed great charm but obviously wasn't good enough. Pandering to what clique? He's played the players that have been match fit and did well in the first two games. Again personality has nothing to with what he achieves as a coach so to say he's woeful because you don't enjoy his interviews is very over the top. If him shouting and going mad on the touchline is him showing passion then I'd rather he didn't, we don't know what he's like in the dressing room and training ground to judge whether he's passionate or not. The same rubbish from last season also contain players who helped us achieve 8th, 10th and 11th. Are they still good enough to play a part this season? Time will tell. To be honest I've seen similar comments about personality levelled at Roy Hodgson and Steve Clarke and they did pretty well.
Forgot to add, I don't think Pete Mel did anything wrong. In fact he diagnosed the stand out problem of a very slow midfield, just wasn't allowed to solve it. Now we're left with with the same problem handed to a new manager. And 1 seemingly oblivious to it in these early days!
I think the next game could be a very good indicator as to what we can expect from Irivine. Against a club that he will no inside and out does he set us up to defend against their strengths or attack their weaknesses and go for it.
I am willing to go out on a limb and say injuries aside he won't make more than 2 changes from the side that lost at Swansea despite the signings.
I don't think I can agree as such Quakes. Unlike many pompous journalists and football people (Chris Lepkowski being a classic example), I personally happen to find a clubs own fans opinions of their club (outside the big 6 or 7 of course) to be by far the best judge of how good a player or manager has been. They are by no means perfect of course, however they are often the only people paying regular attention to the fortunes of their team, as national media and most neutral fans will naturally be drawn towards the bigger teams with the best players.
Irvine did not succeed at either Preston or Sheffield Wednesday. That is hard to argue against. The simplistic "failed league 1 manager" may be a little cruel (and I have used it myself on occasion), but it is the easiest (and maybe laziest) way of saying he failed to succeed at league 1 level.
What I find most key however, is hearing why Preston and Sheffield Wednesday fans were so negative when he joined us. Both sets of fans talked about very narrow line ups, increasingly negative tactics the longer a game went on that often resulted in the team bowing into pressure and conceding late goals, as well as the football being dull and uninspiring.
Now you have to give him time, as he may have learned from his mistakes (and they were mistakes). However in his first few games at the club, we have already seen some of the signals and traces of just what their fans talked about. Against Sunderland, Irvine's substitutions were said by those who were there to have had an adverse effect on us and may have contributed to Sunderland getting a late equaliser. We then saw against Oxford a very rigid performance (maybe his fault, maybe not), but what followed as the game went on was the second massive alarm siren (with 2 defensive midfielders already on the pitch, he chose to place a defensive midfielder on the right of midfield, in what can only be seen as an attempt to hold on to the 1-0 lead we had). This yet again back fired and resulted in an equaliser and subsequent domination by Oxford for the next 20 minutes. Finally we had the extremely poor performance at Swansea. That is 2 points in 3 games, no wins in our first 4 games in all competitions (discounting penalties - i'm talking about in 90 minutes), and our players only scoring 1 goal from open play in our first 4 games and no goals in 2 out of our first 3 league games.
It is early days, and with a full squad we may see Irvine "come out of his shell" with his tactics and it may well work out, but it is hard not to comment on these early signals which suggest the criticisms from Preston and Sheffield Wednesday fans may have had some merit. Especially when we know Irvine can be very stubborn and arrogant about his own views, as seen by his very ill advised comments to Radio Sheffield saying comments along the lines of "unless you have played the game or have coaching badges then I'm not interested in your opinions on my tactics". Lets hope he has learnt his lessons. It just hasn't started all that well yet.
Can you please post up evidence to backup the statement "the premier league is laughing at us"
Or is that just another throwaway comment because you think they are??
Read between the lines.
The common theme is "are WBA trying to get themselves relegated".
The answer to that is yes at this point.....
Great post Quakes, thank you for setting out facts for the record.
I am concerned by the Irvine negative approach that we have already witnessed, I have great reservations about him, how long he will get if results do not improve? From JP's comments I suspect a little longer than some may deem acceptable.
I think it depends alot on the everton and spuds games, If we get beat with very little going forward then i would imagine burnley will be a huge game for Irvine and even more so our club, Thats excluding the cup game which will add to the factor.
Read between the lines.
The common theme is "are WBA trying to get themselves relegated".
The answer to that is yes at this point.....
And im sorry but nobody at the club is TRYING to get relegated at all. Anyone who actually believes that is stu-stu-stu-stupid
Oh and one other thing..... If the final options were AI or Sherwood I'd have taken AI every single time. Sherwood is a self serving loudmouth.
I am willing to go out on a limb and say injuries aside he won't make more than 2 changes from the side that lost at Swansea despite the signings.
You have to say the Burnley game is looking like the deal breaker unless we beat Everton (not very likely) or Spurs (extremely unlikely). I think the knives will be out if we are winless in the league then.
Read between the lines.
The common theme is "are WBA trying to get themselves relegated".
The answer to that is yes at this point.....
That's my problem with Irvine, we have played 3 games only lost one admittedly but it's the manner we play.....we haven't tried to win any of them, I can stand losing if we try to win. And I've been to them all and the Swansea game was the worst performance I can remember by a premier league team, never mind we won't do a Leeds, Pompey etc etc.... His sessions are great etc etc.... Well respected coach....
That's my problem with Irvine, we have played 3 games only lost one admittedly but it's the manner we play.....we haven't tried to win any of them, I can stand losing if we try to win. And I've been to them all and the Swansea game was the worst performance I can remember by a premier league team, never mind we won't do a Leeds, Pompey etc etc.... His sessions are great etc etc.... Well respected coach....
The Sunderland game was a real statement, we played to win and it was an entertaining game. But you carry on focusing on the negatives and changing the facts to fit your view.Yes but at 2-1 he tried to consolidate and failed.
That's my problem with Irvine, we have played 3 games only lost one admittedly but it's the manner we play.....we haven't tried to win any of them, I can stand losing if we try to win. And I've been to them all and the Swansea game was the worst performance I can remember by a premier league team, never mind we won't do a Leeds, Pompey etc etc.... His sessions are great etc etc.... Well respected coach....
Four games in and I've probably seen about 20-30 minute half decent (at best) football - 20 minutes against Sunderland at home and a 10 minute spell at Southampton.
I'm glad I won't be at the Everton or Spurs games as I feel we could really be in for a couple of bad defeats. Burnley at home is massive and I wouldn't be surprised if Irvine wasn't around for that game.
Having said that, in his defence I think once again the transfer window was pretty poor (due diligence, really?) and he is working with a number of "senior pros" and coaching staff who still have far too much influence at the club.
I want Irvine out but he's not the only problem at the club.
Like someone said above the Swansea performance was probably the worst in our premier league history so far
Sorry chap, got to disagree.
I was at Swansea and yes we were poor for about 70-75 mins of the game.
However, having been in attendance at both Sunderland and Fulham away during Tony Mowbray's tenure, in my honest opinion (Prem' wise) Swansea does not compare.
:-[.
Like someone said above the Swansea performance was probably the worst in our premier league history so far,Sorry mate Norwich away, last away game a couple of seasons ago we were even crapper than that!
Sorry mate Norwich away, last away game a couple of seasons ago we were even crapper than that!
Sorry chap, got to disagree.
I was at Swansea and yes we were poor for about 70-75 mins of the game.
However, having been in attendance at both Sunderland and Fulham away during Tony Mowbray's tenure, in my honest opinion (Prem' wise) Swansea does not compare.
:-[.
Quite happy to have a "boring" first half of the season getting 24 points then has the team gels and we get a bit more confidence , go for a few wins and finish mid table.
Quite happy to have a "boring" first half of the season getting 24 points then has the team gels and we get a bit more confidence , go for a few wins and finish mid table.You are one incredibly optimistic guy if you think there is any chance whatsoever of us getting 24 points in the first half of the season. Beyond optimistic in fact, straying very near to fantasy
There were some horrific aways under Megson and Robson, we just weren't that bothered!!
Sorry chap, got to disagree.
I was at Swansea and yes we were poor for about 70-75 mins of the game.
However, having been in attendance at both Sunderland and Fulham away during Tony Mowbray's tenure, in my honest opinion (Prem' wise) Swansea does not compare.
:-[.
I don't think you will find a single Albion fan that wanted Alan Irvine and wasn't in total shock when he was announced as our new head coach, I genuinely thought it was a joke when I was told and actually laughed it off until I saw it was actually true. I have absolutely no problem with anyone being critical of him for what he is actually doing at the club now he is in the job rather than just basing it on his past as some have, for me he started with a clean slate when he took the job.
The jury is well and truly out for me, he has had issues he has had to deal with, I think everyone would agree with that. Having a high turnover of players this summer has been far from ideal for him, players not being fit or taking us a while to actually get them to the club but that isn't his fault so he gets a little leeway for that from me.
We continually hear how good a coach he is likely to be true, he appears to be well liked and if you believe what local journalists are saying he is helping heal the dressing room after last season. However good a coach he is we just don't know what he is like with things like tactics, team selections and substitutions and the like. All of those things that normal coaching staff don't have to really concern themselves with, so far from what I have seen I would say he hasn't quite been up to the job but its a position he has never been in at this level so there will always be a learning curve.
Personally I don't think he will be a success here, it doesn't help that a fair percentage of our supporters already want him out. I'm willing to give him time, I think any new manager deserves this but the question is how long do you give him? With the stakes so high can we afford to give him until Christmas if things don't improve?
In the short term I want him to be a little less cautious in games and try to get some pace into the side and not be quite so rigid. This is the Premier League, we are going to lose games and some of them will be heavy defeats as its the nature of the league but he needs to give us more of a chance of turning some other clubs over which we are more than capable of if set up to allow a little more attacking play.
He is digging his own grave im afraid, Always raving the opposition in readyness for excuses
Most managers speak highly about the opposition they are about to face. Just something else to have a go at the bloke for I suppose.
An example, Roberto Martinez had this to say about Chelsea before Everton played against them..
""But unless you are at your top level you can't really compete against teams like Chelsea.
"It is clear Chelsea and Manchester City have started really strongly. They have shown they have no stopping period, they have just started where they left off.
"They are looking in top form straight away and it could be a really difficult sign for everyone else.
"We know how they played last season and now they have got more flair and more options in attack. That makes them a very complete team."
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/9446244/premier-league-roberto-martinez-says-chelsea-are-very-complete (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11671/9446244/premier-league-roberto-martinez-says-chelsea-are-very-complete)
I don't think most managers do anything of the sort. Your example came as a decent side was going up against a juggernaut with a 100 percent record. We're playing a side who just shipped 6 goals at home.
I don't always agree with WBAinDevon but he's right about the talking up of the opposition, at very least from a PR position it's cringe worthy. The Wednesday fans did warn this about Irvine; that he made out the opposition to be excellent, every single week.Maybe he is using it as a ploy to get his old job back very shortly!
I understand that all managers do it to an extent, but sometimes he takes it way too far.
We all know what we are going to get dished up this coming Saturday.Its so predictable.I might have a few beers more
By the look of your avatar Glyn, I think you've had enough ;D
I think we're talking ourselves into a depression here guys.
I was against his appointment to be fair but I'm prepared to wait until the sick notes are all fit and selectable then make a judgement.
Roy got himself out of a hole last with a decent show, lets hope Irvine can dio the same this coming Saturday
Roy got himself out of a hole last night with a decent show, lets hope Irvine can dio the same this coming Saturday
It actually reminded me alot of our situation tbh, Eager and desperate for a win in order to breed confidence you could tell at 1-0 the way we kept giving the ball back to switzerland last 5 minutes how desperate and panicky we was to get the job done, We need a result like west ham at home last season a solid 1-0 in order to kick start our season.
We haven't won a game since! ;Dlol you get the jist, Saturday my mate 4-0 hat trick big Vic.
lol you get the jist, Saturday my mate 4-0 hat trick big Vic.
I'd snap your hands off for four shots on target.
We haven't won a game since! ;D
Oxford in breath taking fashion!! :o
The record books will forever show that we drew 1-1 with Oxford United. Not a win irrespective of the fact we progressed.The record books show that in 1993 we finished in fourth place so not promoted irrespective of the fact we were by the play-offs.
The record books show that in 1993 we finished in fourth place so not promoted irrespective of the fact we were by the play-offs.
Simply not true.
Promotion through the play offs is promotion. A penalty shoot out victory in cup competition is a draw. I don't know why you can't get your head round it.
But at the end of it , we still progressed in both competitions, hence a positve result? :D;D
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/11/alan-irvine-west-bromwich-albion-interview (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/11/alan-irvine-west-bromwich-albion-interview)
Good article. Give him a chance folks. ;)
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/11/alan-irvine-west-bromwich-albion-interview (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/11/alan-irvine-west-bromwich-albion-interview)
Good article. Give him a chance folks. ;)
Comes across as a decent football man.
Really hope that he gets a fair go.
:).
I can't believe this thread is still open, can't we just support Irvine and the team? It's almost as if people are wanting him to fail!
Its still open because AI has done nothing "so far" to shows us fans he's up to the job & when he does or doesn't will dictate when it closes.
No fan should want to see him fail because he fails we are down.
Nothing so far? It's four games!!!! Give him a chance. Hodgson had a bad start in 2011-12 and he's the God of Football from what you read on this forum!!
Says a lot about the other teams manager's who finished below us when Hodgson was here.
4 easyish games and no wins. Hodgson is not god by the way, hes as dour with his playing style as Irvine but a little more effective tactically
4 easyish games and no wins. Hodgson is not god by the way, hes as dour with his playing style as Irvine but a little more effective tactically
We beat Oxford, unless I'm imagining that we are in the 3rd round of the capital one cup.
Another way to look at is 4 games only 1 defeat.
We beat Oxford, unless I'm imagining that we are in the 3rd round of the capital one cup.
Another way to look at is 4 games only 1 defeat.
We drew against Oxford. We went through on penalties.
Which means we won? ???
Which means we won? ???Anyone with an interest on that particular game knew there HAD to be a winner on the evening. We're still in the competition. Therefore, we must've won.
Anyone with an interest on that particular game knew there HAD to be a winner on the evening. We're still in the competition. Therefore, we must've won.
We qualified - we didn't win.so according to that logic we didn't win the f a cup
Football games are over 90 minutes. The result after 90 minutes was a draw. Extra time was a tie. We beat them on penalties - we qualified for the next round. Any bookie will tell you that a football games result is over 90 minutes.
Jesus wept even West Bromwich Albion Football Club recognises the Oxford United home cup tie as a draw.Its almost as if you want it that way.
http://www.wba.co.uk/fixtures-results/
Alan Irvine is yet to win a game as WBA head coach.
Its almost as if you want it that way.
I can't believe this thread is still open, can't we just support Irvine and the team? It's almost as if people are wanting him to fail!
I can't believe this thread is still open, can't we just support Irvine and the team? It's almost as if people are wanting him to fail!
I can't believe this thread is still open, can't we just support Irvine and the team? It's almost as if people are wanting him to fail!
Jesus wept even West Bromwich Albion Football Club recognises the Oxford United home cup tie as a draw.
http://www.wba.co.uk/fixtures-results/
Alan Irvine is yet to win a game as WBA head coach.
I've never criticised the man; I've criticised the appointment.
This forum is open to all opinions, right?
A tonking today and that should see him gone.
After 2 draws n 2 defeats against better opposition? :o
Individual mistakes or not, Irvine's selection, tactics and incomprehensible lack of substitutions mean I want him out. I wouldn't even say I'm a particularly rash person.
After watching that shower im beginning to turn the other way and think he should be got rid of...that was embarrassing to watch.
He will not sort this out , he's not capable of it.
We will continue to get beat week by week until he is replaced.
I agree Kris, I don't think Pulis would ever come to Albion. Point was a wider one, that I simply want a manager that shows some passion. Gets the fans interested and excited too.
Irvine's appointment was lamentable. His decisions as manager have been very poor. The club is sleep-walking into relegation and we're only 4 games in.
The amount of lofted balls into the box was terrible.
We have some good footballers in the squad and they are being bypassed by long balls.
I havent felt this down about Albion since the 90's, at least we had fight back then and what we lacked in ability we made up for in fight and perseverance.
Need to get rid before too much damage is done. Not scored in league since opening game and only managed an own goal against Oxford whilst leaking goals in the other end. JP needs to hold his hand up and admit he's got this appointment completely wrong as performances are getting worse rather than better.
Unless there is a sudden transformation in terms of performance and results how long do you think JP will realistically give him before the inevitable?
I agree Kris, I don't think Pulis would ever come to Albion. Point was a wider one, that I simply want a manager that shows some passion. Gets the fans interested and excited too.
Irvine's appointment was lamentable. His decisions as manager have been very poor. The club is sleep-walking into relegation and we're only 4 games in.
We had a head coach who showed some passion and got the fans interested but the players got him out because they wouldn't or couldn't play the type of pressing attacking game he wanted to play. Those players should have gone and Pepe Mel should have stayed.I strongly agree. Unfathomable decision from Peace.
I strongly agree. Unfathomable decision from Peace.
With the players we have we should be at least knocking the ball round and not just lumping forward. Where are all the new signings?
We had a head coach who showed some passion and got the fans interested but the players got him out because they wouldn't or couldn't play the type of pressing attacking game he wanted to play. Those players should have gone and Pepe Mel should have stayed.
Well, beyond embarrassing. We have appointed a rubbish head coach who is seriously out of his depth. We have appointed a Director of Football who doesn't seem to have made a scrap of difference and was responsible for appointing the rubbish haed coach. We have kept our two other coaches who failed last season and aren't any better this season. We have kept our same captain who shows no leadership and is so bad he has to be substituted two matches in a row. The whole system and personnel have failed as most of us predicted. All of the above people +JP have to be held accountable, not just AI. To get rid of him and him alone wouldn't solve our problems because we need a complete overhaul.
I noticed the stadium had a few empty seats too, not surprised with this kind of excitement under Irvine.
A midfield of Brunt, Morisson, Dorrans and Gardner in a game of Premier League football!! What the hell was Alan Irvine thinking playing those duffers?Away to Spurs, hahaha, might as well do it now then.
I don't think Irvine realises that his primary goal was to get the fanbase on side, he seems like someone on a mission to alienate people to me.
3 points needed by the Burnley game for me or he's in for the chop.
Away to Spurs, hahaha, might as well do it now then.
I wasn't at the game today but had the 'pleasure' of watching us away at Swansea before the international break.
How was the atmosphere today? Are there senses of frustrations in the stands again Irvine? Is there realistically a time frame that Peace is going to put on this? I mean I think he has until Burnley at home to change the team's fortunes drastically.
A win may appease Peace but this football is absolutely horrific.
Not reading anything into it, but i was
talking to malky MacKay before the game.
How was the atmosphere today?
The atmosphere was flat today, and with the style we played you can understand why. The players we have got are getting worse and that's down to Irvine. He works with them day in day out so he knows what they can do. I don't believe the squad is weak and has got to be the strongest we have had in a while. How players like brunt, dorrans, Morrison can be in a starting line up is beyond me. When your leaking goals like we are you have to protect the back 4 so why isn't yacob playing and where is mulumbu. Where is sess he is our most creative player. I'm worried that Irvine is alienating some of our better players because they don't fit into his style of play what ever that may be.the justification for his appointment was how good a coach he is, clearly a load of PR rubbish a sop to the fans, he has to go and go now tonight no fannying about get rid!!
Unless something changes quickly it may be too late to catch up..
Irvine has a mega test tomorrow, when Hodgson came from Liverpool pretty soon after leaving them we beat them at home, when Clarke came from Liverpool we beat them at home in both instances giving as good as we got, now we have Everton he should know how to beat them or at least give as good as we get. The question is will he shine or blow out like a damp squib ?
About what?!football!! What i mean about
The mess we appear to be in suggests pulis might not be such a bad shout. Depressing really
He will not sort this out , he's not capable of it.so true that hes not capable ,he never was and never will be. pathetic appointment by peace, we need to get rid sooner rather than later before its too late. even if all the new players signed were fit he would still be negative.funny how the last manager was dismissed with players saying communicating was a problem what excuse have the likes of brunt Morrison olson and the other letdowns got this time.
We will continue to get beat week by week until he is replaced.
I posted this up yesterday and by all accounts he failed miserably, having seen it all before and know exactly what is coming next, I just can't find the enthusiasm to enjoy the Baggies any more........60 years and thoroughly inebriated off.
We should have had a big clear out over the summer - players and coaches. We needed a new start, but instead we got lumbered with a failed league 1 manager.
Everyone is talking about Pulis like he would take the job without a doubt! Now I'm not being funny but whos to say he would definitely take it in the first place should the job become available anytime soon.
Downing and kiely remain a blight to our system. Irvine is utterly hopeless. Time NOW for a change; it may be too late by Christmas; I can see us struggling for double figures by then.
Come on JP wake up and smell the coffee!!!! You know something's badly wrong when Albion fans are thinking Pulis might be ok.... !!!!
Pulis would want his own men in and overall control and we know that this would not happen under the current system.
We had a head coach who showed some passion and got the fans interested but the players got him out because they wouldn't or couldn't play the type of pressing attacking game he wanted to play. Those players should have gone and Pepe Mel should have stayed.Bring Mel back with his own backroom staff!! Clear out Downing and Keily at least it would be interesting!!
Pulis would want his own men in and overall control and we know that this would not happen under the current system.
Bring Mel back with his own backroom staff!! Clear out Downing and Keily at least it would be interesting!!
current system aint working
Peace is not impressed, could be gone after Tottenham
Peace is not impressed, could be gone after Tottenham
Pulis would want his own men in and overall control and we know that this would not happen under the current system.surely that depends upon how much JP wants to stay up ?
No fella......you're way off. There will undoubtedly be the pessimists among the Albion fraternity, some of whom will be 'vultures' for their own cause. But lets get this straight.....there is an overwhelming concern that our mangers' philosophy......be it based on the views of previous fans or not........is that his way leads to, un-energetic and flat defensive performances that leave fans completely uninspired - this in my view is a fair concern - after all, the football seen thus far certainly adds weight to this argument. On a (perhaps fairer) note, this team is certainly work in progress - 11 or so new faces, many of them seemingly lacking fitness. For this he will have time......and is entitled to it. During our first 3 games, the analysis of each game is certainly wide and varied - we could, and should of closed out the Sunderland game......dare I say it with a little more positivity! Southampton was a ridged and methodical display that in fairness could of gone either way.....albeit with an glaring lack of quality seen on BOTH fronts! Swansea was completely soul destroying, no endeavour, guile, passion and desire - "is this really the fruits of organisation"?!
The team (squad) unfortunately is in the 'walking wounded' corner - this is a challenge faced by managers many many times during their careers...Irvine is not special in this respect. We are however capable of fielding a strong, fit, technical and competent team....that with home support can get a result, or a least give us a performance. We are not playing 'World beaters', FFS they have conceded 10 goals in their last 3 games! If by the end of the game, and we haven't seen a performance with a clear intent to be victorious over our opponents, I for one will 'turn the screw' on the gaffer - there's simply no excuse. I'm no MENSA student, but what I can promise is......that a negative approach is another game 'slung at the wall'. It's his choice and his bed........I sincerely hope he has a 'springy mattress'! I wish Irvine all the very best and pray for his success......but in any walk of life, let's see how much of his own luck he makes.
I posted this yesterday - not really that far away was I? Clarke was nowhere near this predictable !Agree. Clarke at his worst was still more organised defensively, whilst as poor Mel could be at times, he was also very competitive and had a good home record.
Tottenham I expect nothing but the Burnley game is a big big game for us.
Agree. Clarke at his worst was still more organised defensively, whilst as poor Mel could be at times, he was also very competitive and had a good home record.
Alan Irvine is just a terrible manager, it's that simple. The club can still act accordingly if they sack him immediately.
If Peace is not impressed then I would imagine he'll give Irvine till the Burnley game.
I can see that along with myself,many of the more positive posters, or "happy clappers" are now sitting in the negative camp and have also had enough of this debacle. I wanted him to prove us doubters wrong and I feel sorry for the man but I just can't see him turning it around.
Does anybody think a poor team, poor performance and a thrashing at Tottenham next week would be "for the greater good?" As in if its so bad he could get the boot next week? The sooner the better if its going to happen.
I can see that along with myself,many of the more positive posters, or "happy clappers" are now sitting in the negative camp and have also had enough of this debacle. I wanted him to prove us doubters wrong and I feel sorry for the man but I just can't see him turning it around.
Does anybody think a poor team, poor performance and a thrashing at Tottenham next week would be "for the greater good?" As in if its so bad he could get the boot next week? The sooner the better if its going to happen.
His press interviews are frankly just full of absolute drivel
Don't tell me: "We'll continue to work hard on the training field." ??
Well to be fair, those are just standard interview sound bites. Basically every manager says them. Not much different to what Mel was saying in his either when we had some particularly awful performances and results. People lapped that up though because he praised the supporters.
He's got a lot wrong these games but the players probably deserve even more criticism, two games in a row we've conceded thanks to 2 of our most senior pro's - Brunt and Olsson, passing the ball from inside their own box directly to the opposition. That's just unaccountably bad play.
Well to be fair, those are just standard interview sound bites. Basically every manager says them. Not much different to what Mel was saying in his either when we had some particularly awful performances and results. People lapped that up though because he praised the supporters.
He's got a lot wrong these games but the players probably deserve even more criticism, two games in a row we've conceded thanks to 2 of our most senior pro's - Brunt and Olsson, passing the ball from inside their own box directly to the opposition. That's just unaccountably bad play.
I wonder if the official site will publish any more articles from the players highlighting the genius of Irvine. The flow of propaganda from the club since Irvine was appointed has been hilarious.
Every time I see him I have a flashback to Brian Little. The man is dour and out of his depth and the football is just as bad.
I'll be chuffed if he's gone tonight and chalk it off as a bad mistake but I think he'll be given til after the Burnley game.
Well to be fair, those are just standard interview sound bites. Basically every manager says them. Not much different to what Mel was saying in his either when we had some particularly awful performances and results. People lapped that up though because he praised the supporters.regardless of mistakes we still ended up with nil in both games.
He's got a lot wrong these games but the players probably deserve even more criticism, two games in a row we've conceded thanks to 2 of our most senior pro's - Brunt and Olsson, passing the ball from inside their own box directly to the opposition. That's just unaccountably bad play.
Let's look at the background again:
1) Peace gets rid of a head coach who, if this forum and others where polls took place, the majority of fans wanted to stay on this season.
2) A new head coach is appointed who you'd be hard pushed to find anyone at all who wanted him to be appointed.
3) The way the fixtures fell meant that we needed to hit the ground running at the start of the season.
Based on the above, there was never going to be a honeymoon period. 6 games in and we've scored 3 times (1 of which was an own goal) and have 2 points to show for it, plus a penalties win, over a side that was bottom of League 2 at the time, that could easily have gone the other way.
Therefore, the reactions here, and what is a festering atmosphere at the ground, come as no surprise. In these circumstances, it was vital that Irvine did something to try to win the fans over, but he has made no attempt to do this and has just adopted a fearful approach which has made him reluctant to play our most creative players, whilst the remaining old guard, who have presided over an increasingly horrible run of what must now be something like 12 wins in our last 75 games, still hold sway.
"He's a great coach....": as I've said previously, this has to manifest itself in some way, otherwise what does it matter? What's actually getting better under his tenure, as a result of him being such a great coach? Where's the evidence of it?
Peace would be very brave to pull the trigger so soon, as it would be an admittance of a massive failure on his part which, as he would see it, would be the second failure in a row. However, I'm fearful that, if Irvine was sacked, we would just end up with Downing and Kiely until the end of the season.
Ultimately, something has to change, because the approach we're currently taking in matches is not working and we must do something different. If Irvine won't do it, then let's have a big clear out on the coaching side and let someone else have a go.
"He's a great coach...." is basically a platitude people roll out when they want to say something positive about Irvine (in this example) but simply don't have anything else to say.
Lose to spurs and don't beat burnley then unfortunately we have no option. We can't wait 15 games and then act. I just hope JP isn't too proud if it gets to that
Lose to spurs and don't beat burnley then unfortunately we have no option. We can't wait 15 games and then act. I just hope JP isn't too proud if it gets to that
If/ when they sack him, the silver linings for me would be for them to know who they want to replace him, and to get the new bloke in within days of AI leaving.
The way the last two appointments have been conducted I'm not hopeful of that happening.
It's because we have to find someone who will work with Keily and Downing. Most head coaches / managers like to work with their own people who they know, who they trust, who are on the same wavelength.
Keily and Downing need to be shown the door as well as Irvine and it needs to happen soon before we find ourselves in serious trouble.
It's because we have to find someone who will work with Keily and Downing. Most head coaches / managers like to work with their own people who they know, who they trust, who are on the same wavelength.
Keily and Downing need to be shown the door as well as Irvine and it needs to happen soon before we find ourselves in serious trouble.
You have a point.
Could it also be because when all's said and done, JP and Co don't really have a plan?
Like I've stated before, we finished 17th last season and have been in poor form for around 18 months now and have signed 11 new players who the majority aren't match fit yet. To expect Irvine to fix this team in four games is simply not going to happen.
. At last someone's woke up and smelt the coffee
It's because we have to find someone who will work with Keily and Downing. Most head coaches / managers like to work with their own people who they know, who they trust, who are on the same wavelength.
Keily and Downing need to be shown the door as well as Irvine and it needs to happen soon before we find ourselves in serious trouble.
Burnley will be his eighth and final game.
Peace was only praising him last week, he won't get rid any time soon.
How true this has proven to be.
http://www.owlsonline.com/?page=forum&thread_id=31482&selpage=15&limit=15&obf=post_number&obad=ASC
Makes even worse reading now.
Paralysis by analysis anyone?
How true this has proven to be.
http://www.owlsonline.com/?page=forum&thread_id=31482&selpage=15&limit=15&obf=post_number&obad=ASC
Makes even worse reading now.
Is Alan Irvine a Terry Burton appointment too? Was certainly signing his praises.Completely agree. We won't attract anyone decent without allowing them to bring in their own people. Sherwood wouldn't do it. Moyes wouldn't do it. Pepe Mel tried to compromise and reach a middle ground, but got ganged up on. We have tried the DOF/Continuity experiment and it hasn't worked. Time for a clear out and a return to a more traditional model.
I think this continental set up was built around DA and without him we need to go back to the classic model. It ain't working.
I don't get this 'we need a good coach, not manager' - bull$h1t.
Coaches don't pick teams, chose tactics, make substitutions and take actions that influence games. Managers do.
Coaches work on the training ground. Points are won on the pitch.
Like I've stated before, we finished 17th last season and have been in poor form for around 18 months now and have signed 11 new players who the majority aren't match fit yet. To expect Irvine to fix this team in four games is simply not going to happen.
I understand that, but it still doesn't excuse his formations/tactics/philosophy. The new manager this season was never going to be a miracle worker, but it still doesn't excuse or justify how bad he's been this season.
Like I've stated before, we finished 17th last season and have been in poor form for around 18 months now and have signed 11 new players who the majority aren't match fit yet. To expect Irvine to fix this team in four games is simply not going to happen.
Makes me laugh when some kind of defend Irvine by stating that bedding in new players takes time when hardly any of them have yet to start a game. yesterday the 2 full-backs were forced due to departures last season and Bobby probably was only called up because sick note Anichebe was out again.
I am a bit skeptical about the match fitness excuse. It seems that Irvine is afraid to change things much and the rumours of Downing and other untouchables won't go away.
Not wishing to be other clubs, but when you see similar sized clubs like Southampton and Swansea GET IT SO RIGHT, why the hell do we get it so wrong?Southampton have had a good couple of seasons but don't forget they were in League 1 recently. They have also had owners with some financial clout. Swansea have definitely got it right - they spend their TV money well and recruit good managers.
I would be very surprised if JP pulls the trigger before the Burnley game however if Baggie96 is correct and JP isn't happy, I hope that when the inevitable happens a replacement is swift to give us a fighting chance of staying up.
However, I am not convinced that a change of Manger or Head Coach is going to provide the magic turn around we are all hoping for or expecting. As other posters have already said, this situation has been ongoing for at least 18 months with 3 different guys in charge.
Surely Peace has already instructed his 'brigade' to make 'off the record' inquiries as to whether Pulis would be interested or not?! I'm passed caring about how 'sexy' our football is.......I just want it to be effective! He's never been relegated, and by getting him in early and clearing out the seemingly festering back room staff, we have a great chance of being successful.Irvine makes Pulis look like Guardiola.
Irvine makes Pulis look like Guardiola.
I would be very surprised if JP pulls the trigger before the Burnley game however if Baggie96 is correct and JP isn't happy, I hope that when the inevitable happens a replacement is swift to give us a fighting chance of staying up.Yes it has been going on for 18 months but we have had 3 managers with no previous Prem experience. It doesn't mean that the situation can't be sorted by appointing a good experienced manager.
However, I am not convinced that a change of Manger or Head Coach is going to provide the magic turn around we are all hoping for or expecting. As other posters have already said, this situation has been ongoing for at least 18 months with 3 different guys in charge.
Irvine makes Pulis look like Guardiola.Pulis played a particular style to keep Stoke up. He did then try to move things on. Also at Palace there were signs of more football. I don't think he will always play the extreme long ball stuff he began with at Stoke. What he will always do is sort the defence out.
People say his (Pulis) football is not attractive but they were ok to watch last year and rolled us over twice whilst looking entertaining in the game at Selhurst Park.
I'd rather have Jol.
Jol!!!!? He's ****
Devils Advocat - How about this as a compromise
Downing & Kiely and anybody else in their 'gang' got rid of or as said elsewhere gardening leave or put out to grass with the kids (poor beggars - kids that is!).
Irvine kept as coach - as everybody keeps saying he is 'good' and everybody's happy on the training pitch!
Get an experienced guy in as MANAGER to kick some ass & run the show their way! Pulis/anybody's got to be better than what we're putting up with!
Devils Advocat - How about this as a compromise
Downing & Kiely and anybody else in their 'gang' got rid of or as said elsewhere gardening leave or put out to grass with the kids (poor beggars - kids that is!).
Irvine kept as coach - as everybody keeps saying he is 'good' and everybody's happy on the training pitch!
Get an experienced guy in as MANAGER to kick some ass & run the show their way! Pulis/anybody's got to be better than what we're putting up with!
Are we not missing the point? It's Peace who is the problem. He made the appointment of AI. Sooner he goes the better.
I don't think anyone can really criticise Peace this summer with all the effort he's put into correcting last season's mistakes. He'll give Irvine a fair chance to prove himself.
You can sign what ever players you want if the manager is stuck in his negative ways then it really dosent matter.
Going to put this out there. No one will agree mind but I couldn't care less really.
Irvine isn't to blame IMO. Yesterday we had virtually no fit creative players, and unsurprisingly we didn't create anything. Irvine picked the best side from those available and they weren't good enough. For me the blame should lie with the players.
I expect some of you will say this side did well in previous years, but we had one thing we don't have now and that's match winners. We had a poor side that had a few goal scorers. They won us games, the side gained confidence and they played above themselves. Now we have a poor side, no goal scorers and, surprise surprise, we aren't winning games. Maybe the creative players will come good? They have to because otherwise we will go down, whoever is in charge.
It's easy to blame Irvine, nobody wanted him and plenty would probably like us to fail to say 'I told you so'. But for me it's far from just his fault. We are a poor side playing poorly. Nobody would keep yesterday's 11 up if it played every game.
Not wishing to be other clubs, but when you see similar sized clubs like Southampton and Swansea GET IT SO RIGHT, why the hell do we get it so wrong?Southampton got it so right because they appointed Ronald Koeman as their manager. He was actually the man I thought we should have gone for after Mel's departure. He's got a very decent track record managing with Ajax, Benfica and Feyenoord, and plays progressive attacking football. What's more he has attracted Tadic, the best midfielder in the Dutch league last season, Aiderwereld who had a fantastic partnership with Vertongen at Ajax. By the end of the season, Southampton won't notice the players they sold to Liverpool.
Irvine had a huge say in signing and preparing this 'poor' side, so who else should we blame for another inept display?The poor side surely? A side that has no one who score won't win a lot, baring a miracle. We didn't have any creative players yesterday, and our reliable defenders made horrendous errors. That's nothing to do with a manager IMO, just poor players.
The poor side surely? A side that has no one who score won't win a lot, baring a miracle. We didn't have any creative players yesterday, and our reliable defenders made horrendous errors. That's nothing to do with a manager IMO, just poor players.How do you compensate for the lack of proactive substitutions we've seen in every single game so far then?
How do you compensate for the lack of proactive substitutions we've seen in every single game so far then?Injuries.
How do you compensate for the lack of proactive substitutions we've seen in every single game so far then?
How do you compensate for the lack of proactive substitutions we've seen in every single game so far then?Injuries, lack of any real options to break on. First game there was only really Sess as an attacking option, same vs Saints and Swansea. Only a half fit Blanco and Samaras yesterday too. Not sure what else he could do? No attacking options means no attacking subs, you can't magic players out of thin air.
Going to put this out there. No one will agree mind but I couldn't care less really.
Irvine isn't to blame IMO. Yesterday we had virtually no fit creative players, and unsurprisingly we didn't create anything. Irvine picked the best side from those available and they weren't good enough. For me the blame should lie with the players.
I expect some of you will say this side did well in previous years, but we had one thing we don't have now and that's match winners. We had a poor side that had a few goal scorers. They won us games, the side gained confidence and they played above themselves. Now we have a poor side, no goal scorers and, surprise surprise, we aren't winning games. Maybe the creative players will come good? They have to because otherwise we will go down, whoever is in charge.
It's easy to blame Irvine, nobody wanted him and plenty would probably like us to fail to say 'I told you so'. But for me it's far from just his fault. We are a poor side playing poorly. Nobody would keep yesterday's 11 up if it played every game.
Injuries, lack of any real options to break on. First game there was only really Sess as an attacking option, same vs Saints and Swansea. Only a half fit Blanco and Samaras yesterday too. Not sure what else he could do? No attacking options means no attacking subs, you can't magic players out of thin air.Both came on at 2-0, why not 1-0, when we still had a chance would another 10mins have killed them off?
I don't think anyone can really criticise Peace this summer with all the effort he's put into correcting last season's mistakes. He'll give Irvine a fair chance to prove himself.Peace is to blame because of the set up no decent coach in their right mind would want to come to us and not be able to bring in their own people we were lucky with Roy because of what happened at Liverpool and he needed to prove himself again quickly.
We are lacking any sort of direction. Call me a dingle or whatever but AI should never have been given the job.Says it all when we are begging for Pulis shows how far we have fallen. Just because we have found a manager more negative than him, albeit nowhere near as good, does not make him the answer. We may well stay up with him, but will pay the price for years to come in terms of entertainment.
I don't buy the 'give him time' thing because if we had stability and stuck with Bryan Robson where would we be now?
Time to go Irvine and take Downing and Kiely with you.
Tony Pulis in.
Both came on at 2-0, why not 1-0, when we still had a chance would another 10mins have killed them off?Goals come in a few seconds. Maybe he was just giving it another few minutes before he made the changes, and then they scored. He could have been getting them ready, conceded, and then it would have still been the same scenario. You don't honestly believe he was waiting to concede again to make changes? It just happened the goal came before the time he wanted to make the changes, that happens. There was a good 30-25 minutes (including added time) left when they scored the second, so I can see why he was willing to give it a few more minutes. Just unfortunate that they scored.
Going to put this out there. No one will agree mind but I couldn't care less really.
Irvine isn't to blame IMO. Yesterday we had virtually no fit creative players, and unsurprisingly we didn't create anything. Irvine picked the best side from those available and they weren't good enough. For me the blame should lie with the players.
I expect some of you will say this side did well in previous years, but we had one thing we don't have now and that's match winners. We had a poor side that had a few goal scorers. They won us games, the side gained confidence and they played above themselves. Now we have a poor side, no goal scorers and, surprise surprise, we aren't winning games. Maybe the creative players will come good? They have to because otherwise we will go down, whoever is in charge.
It's easy to blame Irvine, nobody wanted him and plenty would probably like us to fail to say 'I told you so'. But for me it's far from just his fault. We are a poor side playing poorly. Nobody would keep yesterday's 11 up if it played every game.
Goals come in a few seconds. Maybe he was just giving it another few minutes before he made the changes, and then they scored. He could have been getting them ready, conceded, and then it would have still been the same scenario. You don't honestly believe he was waiting to concede again to make changes? It just happened the goal came before the time he wanted to make the changes, that happens. There was a good 30-25 minutes (including added time) left when they scored the second, so I can see why he was willing to give it a few more minutes. Just unfortunate that they scored.There was only one team going to score 2nd half though, we were getting hammered, so what was he waiting for?
Opposite thing happened vs Sunderland. The game was 1-1, we had Sess getting ready and then we scored, so he didn't come on. That is just the life of a football manager.
Most fans want us to do well, there's no other motive.Blanco and Samaras miles away from fitness, surely everyone saw that when they came on? Play Morrison or Dorrans inside, but then who plays wide? Gamboa or Saido were about the only options and then it becomes the 'negative' 1 up front. Sometimes I just think people moan about anything just for the sake of it, without actually analysing the situation.
Yes, he didn't have all players ready - but Everton were missing Barkley, Eto'o and Oviedo who all ooze creativity.
He could have played Morrison or Dorrans further advanced to link the middle with attack, but instead used them defensively. He could have bought on Gamboa/Samaras/Blanco 15 minutes earlier when the game was crying out for creativity. I don't think it's really hindsight either - he had opportunities to change things but did nothing. When the crowd is collectively shouting "change" after 55 minutes there's no excuse not to throw an attacker on.
Besides, for the past month he's had Sessegnon at his disposal and hasn't used him. That's criminal as he's our most creative player in years - there's no defending his lack of playing Sessegnon or playing attacking midfielders in more advanced positions. He DOES have creative players at his disposal.
There was only one team going to score 2nd half though, we were getting hammered, so what was he waiting for?Was it though? How many chances did Everton have before their second goal, in either half? I can only remember one. It was an even game for the most part, they just had better forward players and we made some poor mistakes.
He looked a lost and forlorn figure on the touchline, didn't look to have clue.
He's obviously a good coach, trouble is, once a week the opposition get in the way!
Was it though? How many chances did Everton have before their second goal, in either half? I can only remember one. It was an even game for the most part, they just had better forward players and we made some poor mistakes.
We didn't create a lot, but we miles off being hammered for the most part. It was a poor game all round, neither side played particularly well.
I will reiterate my earlier point, we are a poor side playing poorly. We had no creative players fully fit, so we obviously lacked creativity. Surely that's just obvious?
Going to put this out there. No one will agree mind but I couldn't care less really.
Irvine isn't to blame IMO. Yesterday we had virtually no fit creative players, and unsurprisingly we didn't create anything. Irvine picked the best side from those available and they weren't good enough. For me the blame should lie with the players.
I expect some of you will say this side did well in previous years, but we had one thing we don't have now and that's match winners. We had a poor side that had a few goal scorers. They won us games, the side gained confidence and they played above themselves. Now we have a poor side, no goal scorers and, surprise surprise, we aren't winning games. Maybe the creative players will come good? They have to because otherwise we will go down, whoever is in charge.
It's easy to blame Irvine, nobody wanted him and plenty would probably like us to fail to say 'I told you so'. But for me it's far from just his fault. We are a poor side playing poorly. Nobody would keep yesterday's 11 up if it played every game.
If you think that was an even game then good luck to you. Everton bossed an away game at a canter easily holding us at arms length without getting out of 2nd gear. Substituting their biggest threat they were so comfortable. Winning easily 2 nil and could have been 5 or 6 without Foster, bad shooting and missing an open goal.I didn't think there was that much in it generally, we just didn't really create anything. I didn't ever feel like it was going to really get away from us until the game was dead as a contest at 2-0 anyway. I can only remember about 4 shots from either side in about 60 minutes, it was just a poor game all round.
Was it though? How many chances did Everton have before their second goal, in either half? I can only remember one. It was an even game for the most part, they just had better forward players and we made some poor mistakes.They scored and missed an absolute sitter.
We didn't create a lot, but we miles off being hammered for the most part. It was a poor game all round, neither side played particularly well.
I will reiterate my earlier point, we are a poor side playing poorly. We had no creative players fully fit, so we obviously lacked creativity. Surely that's just obvious?
I honestly cannot think of anybody who could work the kind of miracle you would need to get yesterday's 18 to win a premier league game.
I can see where you're coming from, but, I've got a mate whose's a Sheffield Wednesday fan. Now when we were both in the championship last under RDM Irvine was at Wednesday We'd been promoted and had to play Palace on a monday of the final week. Their last 2 games were Cardiff away Palace home. They were bottom 3 but not adrift. Cardiff he set out to play for a draw. Cardiff scored quickly plan went out the window and they lost. We drew with palace to keep them within 1pt of each other. Their last game Wednesday scored midway through the first half then went ultra defensive palace scored Wednesday fell apart and lost. Some people just aren'tcut out for the tactical side side of football. It says something when the last two managed by him ended up in league 1. I'm sure he's a lovely guy and is a great coach. But, we need most of our points pre-Christmas. We haven't the time to faff about. Felt sorry for Ideye yesterday just no serviceFair point, but maybe those sides weren't good enough either? Good sides don't go down, whoever the manager is.
They scored and missed an absolute sitter.So you believe a manager and a group of players employed to win games tried not to win a game? Of course we tried to win, we just weren't good enough to. That 11 wouldn't beat any side in this league, no matter who was in charge.
It wouldn't take a miracle to TRY and win the game.
Irvine isn't to blame IMO. Yesterday we had virtually no fit creative players, and unsurprisingly we didn't create anything. Irvine picked the best side from those available and they weren't good enough. For me the blame should lie with the players.
So if we bought 11 players in the Summer how comes it that we have virtually no fit creative players available?? Who takes responsibility for that?? Is it only down to bad luck, or is it maybe getting our priorities wrong in the transfer window? Irvine just seems to have a cautious, defensive mindset.I think you have missed my point a little. I acknowledge yesterday's team was poor, clearly there were a lack of wide options, clearly the midfield was unbalanced. But Irvine can't magic players out of nowhere. The other options weren't fit, so we ended up with a make do and mend team. I defy anyone to take the fully fit 16 players from yesterday's 18 (Samaras and Blanco COULD NOT have started whatever anyone thinks) and pick a more adventurous or attacking 11 yesterday.
We also need width going forward. I wasn't there yesterday, but it seems we didn't have any wide attacking players, except for Brunt, who does not really run at full backs. Morisson can be creative (although not by Gera's standards), but he apparently was playing in front of the back 4. Dorrans and Gardener are more holding players. There needs to be midfielders (even one would be great) able to play forward passes and show a change of pace to get past opponents so as to get into threatening positions. And to link up with our strikers effectively.
And if it is blindingly obvious that we are getting outplayed by the opposition, why wait until midway into the second half before making substitutions?
I wonder also if Irvine was showing too much respect for Everton, who he undoubtedly has alot of affection for. In recent years our matches against Everton have been close run, apart from when we hammered them 4-1 at Goodison, but yesterday it was by all accounts a stroll in the park for them.
I'm afraid patience with AI's style is running very thin. Unless we see a completely different formation and performance against Burnley, I think JP will have to act.
I think you have missed my point a little. I acknowledge yesterday's team was poor, clearly there were a lack of wide options, clearly the midfield was unbalanced. But Irvine can't magic players out of nowhere. The other options weren't fit, so we ended up with a make do and mend team. I defy anyone to take the fully fit 16 players from yesterday's 18 (Samaras and Blanco COULD NOT have started whatever anyone thinks) and pick a more adventurous or attacking 11 yesterday.
As I keep saying, yesterday's side was a woeful 11 enforced on us by absentees. No manager would get that 11 to win that game yesterday, particularly when experienced players can't do that basics.
For me he can't be judged until we have the new players fully fit and available and then see where we are in a few months time. To be fair I thought the team yesterday would have been good enough to win but we just lack a bit of creativity that some of the new signings will provide. We also need to cut out the individual mistakes that have cost us two games in a row.
Fair point, but maybe those sides weren't good enough either? Good sides don't go down, whoever the manager is.
So you believe a manager and a group of players employed to win games tried not to win a game? Of course we tried to win, we just weren't good enough to. That 11 wouldn't beat any side in this league, no matter who was in charge.I think he sets up not to lose, to stifle the opposition. That's my issue, not upset about losing, I've seen them lose more than win in my 40 years, but yesterday we showed no ambition whatsoever, that I cannot accept. He's more scared of losing than he is ambitious to win.
It comes back to my point that we have not prioritised properly in the transfer window. I presume from your comments that Varela was not fit, who I have not seen, so maybe that aspect is bad luck, but that aside, from all our much publicised splash into the transfer market, the side is woefully lacking in creativity. One example, why play a creative player like Morisson deep protecting our back 4, when we have someone like Yacob to do that job, and allow Morrison to do what he's good at?
I think he sets up not to lose, to stifle the opposition. That's my issue, not upset about losing, I've seen them lose more than win in my 40 years, but yesterday we showed no ambition whatsoever, that I cannot accept. He's more scared of losing than he is ambitious to win.Fair enough, I just think it matters who is charge. We have a poor side, so we will struggle regardless. Irvine might be awful, but even a decent manager wouldn't make much of a difference.
He's lost at this level, you can see it in his body language. Devoid of ideas.
If he was as good a coach as is being made out we would have atleast drawn the game 0-0.That Palace scenario was an absolute miracle. I doubt even Pulis believed he actually pulled it off. I'll give you a top end example to make my point.
Look at the side Palace had last year, to a man every player we had on the pitch yesterday would be considered better than theirs, but they got results through being drilled and knowing their roles, whereas our bunch havent got a bloody clue, this is Alan Irvine's fault full stop
Fair enough, I just think it matters who is charge. We have a poor side, so we wilis beyom struggle regardless. Irvine might be awful, but even a decent manager wouldn't make much of a difference.That side isn't poor mate, even without the new players it's not that bad.
Fair enough, I just think it matters who is charge. We have a poor side, so we will struggle regardless. Irvine might be awful, but even a decent manager wouldn't make much of a difference.
That side isn't poor mate, even without the new players it's not that bad.Maybe we will be a better side if the likes of Varela, Blanco etc hit it off. That's fine, my original point was that match winners lift sides.
We have a Head Coach who doesn't attack and believes lofted balls into the box is the way forward, quite why the club signed Blanco and Varela for Irvine is beyond me because he won't use them correctly if at all.
Fair enough, I just think it matters who is charge. We have a poor side, so we will struggle regardless. Irvine might be awful, but even a decent manager wouldn't make much of a difference.
Megson got us promoted with a WAY poorer side than this. If you don't rate the side then fine. we're never going to be chelsea, but, that's why a good head coach is important to get the best out of any side. Sadly for us Irvine's proved himslf clueless elsewhereHe got a poor side promoted, but at a much lower level. I keep repeating myself here but I'll say it again, that 11 yesterday had no match winners so it was always going to struggle to win.
We had a better manager in the same fixture last season. He got a point. This was his team. Foster Reid Lugano Olsson Ridgewell Gera Morrison Yacob Brunt Vydra Anelka. Certainly no better than yesterdays side.Not much in it, but at least it's balanced. Equally, we have losses games with much better 11s, that happens. Also worth noting that 11 played poorly and only came into the game when we were able to use attacking options off the bench, options we have lacked in the main so far.
He did pick that 11 though! This point that he didn't have players at his disposal to do any different is wrong. Put Yacob in or even Baird for any of the midfielders and then push on Dorrans/moz to AM. That's one problem solved. We lack fit wide players - put Gamboa in in place of Wisdom and watch the overlaps and him adding width to the side. We were 1-0 down but still in it and needed that little extra sooner, he was hesitant.All much of a muchness for me. Non of the options you suggest turn that team into one capable of winning yesterday. Whoever played, there was always going to be a lack of threat because the players didn't have the right attributes.
All much of a muchness for me. Non of the options you suggest turn that team into one capable of winning yesterday. Whoever played, there was always going to be a lack of threat because the players didn't have the right attributes.m
For me he can't be judged until we have the new players fully fit and available and then see where we are in a few months time. To be fair I thought the team yesterday would have been good enough to win but we just lack a bit of creativity that some of the new signings will provide. We also need to cut out the individual mistakes that have cost us two games in a row.
The difference here though is you know Mourinho will get it right, look at his track record. Compare Chelsea fans reaction to when JM was appointed to the reaction of ours when AI was. At the moment everybody's worst fears are happening and a large percentage of supporters don't have any faith that the coaching team will improve us enough.
Look at Chelsea last year, they have a brilliant coach, arguably the best in the world. They didn't win anything though, did as badly as they have for years. Why? Because their strikers weren't good enough, they didn't have enough match winners and it Icost them. Now they have one and they have a great chance of winning everything.
The difference here though is you know Mourinho will get it right, look at his track record. Compare Chelsea fans reaction to when JM was appointed to the reaction of ours when AI was. At the moment everybody's worst fears are happening and a large percentage of supporters don't have any faith that the coaching team will improve us enough.We have not improved for 3 seasons, that suggests none of the coaches are any good. Why did we keep on failures and employ a failure just to maintain a failing structure.
The difference here though is you know Mourinho will get it right, look at his track record. Compare Chelsea fans reaction to when JM was appointed to the reaction of ours when AI was. At the moment everybody's worst fears are happening and a large percentage of supporters don't have any faith that the coaching team will improve us enough.Obviously it's a very different scenario, my point was just that even at the top level, being short on quality will cost you.
We have not improved for 3 seasons, that suggests none of the coaches are any good. Why did we keep on failures and employ a failure just to maintain a failing structure.Wishful thinking though. Since Roy left our head coach appointments have been poor. SC after a good start was taking us backwards, PM should have been backed and AI we'll say no more. I agree the backroom coaches are a constant in all this, and should be held accountable as well.
Peace had a chance to clear the decks, he didn't therefore he failed too.
They all need to go along with some of the all too comfortable senior players.
We have not improved for 3 seasons, that suggests none of the coaches are any good.Simplistic and no basis of truth.
mMaybe McAuley or Lescott stop us conceding, that's a fair point. But are a front 6 of Dorrans, Morrison, Gardner, Brunt, Berahino and Ideye going to win us games? Probably not, which is my point. That 11 wasn't good enough to win, whoever the manager was.
I respectfully disagree. I think a few tweaks to that side gives us more of a chance. You could argue a case for McAuley and Lescott also, who we were told all week was ready.
Hindsight is also a fine thing and it's something we have for the next game, Olsson has made 2 costly errors and been poor so far, will he be out the starting 11 next week?
Simplistic and no basis of truth.Simplistic? Yes.
Maybe McAuley or Lescott stop us conceding, that's a fair point. But are a front 6 of Dorrans, Morrison, Gardner, Brunt, Berahino and Ideye going to us games? Probably not, which if point. That 11 wasn't good enough to win, whoever the manager was.
Just spotted at Old Trafford taking notes. No doubt figuring out which defenders to play against them!Dont think we'll be seeing a repeat of last season
should be at the training ground trying to work out how to get that shower of so and so to play >:(as a teamI hear his training sessions are great and the players have a really good time and the atmosphere is just super!! :D :P
Just saw Irvine on the telly making notes.......or in his case drawing silly pictures as he hasn't a clue about football. Get him out now, he's clueless and shouldn't be anywhere neat a premier league team!Probably working out a new formation.........10-0-0
That's them relegated
By far the worst manager I've ever seen at hillsborough. I still have unwanted flashbacks of his 6-2-2 tactic at home to Bournemouth. We still got outplayed and we're very fortunate to get a point
His best signing was Nicky Weaver. Purely as he kept him in the job way longer than he should have been.
RIP West Brom. See you in the championship soon
The above is a comment from the Owls forum when the announcement of us signing AI was made.That's perhaps the most worrying thing for me. When Irvine goes, he's the man that will be recommending the next head coach...
Shocking appointment and it is only a matter of a few games before AI gets the boot. Maybe Terry Burton should go with him if it was his recommendation to bring in Irvine.
It's all well and good when people talk about time, but AI looks like one of the least inspirational people I've seen.Exactly what I have said elsewhere , these players need a massive kick up the backside not somebody with rigomortis on the sidelines. Granted AI is far from the only problem at the club but he was never right for the job IMO.
Slate Pulis, but I tell you what - he would get a starting 11 fighting. If the players are the issue I still cannot see Irvine managing to turn that around.
All this talk about defensively minded, we've conceded within two minutes of both games. We need a leader and someone who can kick these players into gear - AI is not that man.
It's all well and good when people talk about time, but AI looks like one of the least inspirational people I've seen.
Slate Pulis, but I tell you what - he would get a starting 11 fighting. If the players are the issue I still cannot see Irvine managing to turn that around.
All this talk about defensively minded, we've conceded within two minutes of both games. We need a leader and someone who can kick these players into gear - AI is not that man.
Exactly what I have said elsewhere , these players need a massive kick up the backside not somebody with rigomortis on the sidelines. Granted AI is far from the only problem at the club but he was never right for the job IMO.
Blanco and Samaras miles away from fitness, surely everyone saw that when they came on? Play Morrison or Dorrans inside, but then who plays wide? Gamboa or Saido were about the only options and then it becomes the 'negative' 1 up front. Sometimes I just think people moan about anything just for the sake of it, without actually analysing the situation.
As for Sess, obvious why he missed out vs Sunderland as he wasn't fit, no reason why he should have come in vs Saints or Swansea, both games that follow previous decent performances.
11 votes for Irvine to stay . Must have come from Terry Burton and Irvines family.Or the starting 11
I just voted go, but I'm so depressed by the whole thing that I can't even be bothered to get angry. Its a lose lose lose for everyone, humiliation for Irvine, we're looking down the barrel, "established" players looking jaded, new ones must wonder what the f*** they'v signed up for. I remember the eighties relegation, 3 wins all season, and this feels like that.
. I suspect he's a top fella and really good on the training ground but he's no leader of men.
Just spotted at Old Trafford taking notes. No doubt figuring out which defenders to play against them!
Nail on the head, he's no leader of men.
I'll be shocked, annoyed, depressed and a whole load of expletives if he is still in charge by then
It's easiest to address this in one go to be honest. I stick by my original point, the players aren't good enough. You are all focussing on Irvine, what he does, what he doesn't do, etc.
It's all irrelevant for me. That side wouldn't win with Mourinho in charge. The players are at fault first and foremost. JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
We going to make a banner for spurs next Sunday? I'm up for that, if we are 3 or 4 down by half time we truly make our voices heard. If we miraculously win, there'll be discount price humble pie on offer.
What will it say? "5 games Enough is Enough!!"
Let's hope he wasn't scouting QPR aswell. Just imagine if he was still at the helm come Christmas! A very blunt butter knife would be on my crimbo wish list, got to be better to cut my wrists that way than to take any more AI,
But hey, he's a hard worker, always first in and last out an the lads are happy in training. ::)
It's so much more than that though and you know it. It's been the wrong appointment since day one. I can't believe we even gave the guy a second thought, let alone an interview an then the job.
Perhaps but it's just embarrassing for fans to act in such an undignified manner. By all accounts this is a good man who is trying his hardest. If it transpires he isn't good enough so be it but he deserves a modicum of support surely. If results are poor he will lose his job and he will have ruined his last opportunity to manage at such a high level. He'll be aware of the consequences.Even if giving him a fair chance will not give enough time too a successor?
I don't know why he was appointed, we would have mocked any club who had done similar but it's done now. We have to give him a fair chance. It's been 4 league games.
Even if giving him a fair chance will not give enough time too a successor?
What will it say? "5 games Enough is Enough!!"Well yeah, as a club we need a motivating manager, not afraid to get stuck in. We are already in the bottom 3 so yes we need change in how our club is run. That ok for you? Doesn't hurt getting your voice heard instead of being nice little old west brom.
i seriously think JP will drag Burton into office tomorrow morning and tell him to start the search for a replacement immediately.
We know the process will take some weeks and JP is savvy enough to know he cannot leave the status quo in place for more than another 3 games max. i also think that in his new "things will change" incarnation JP will be acknowledging the KD / DK issue and the new head coach will be able to bring in his own team.
All of this could result in a certain Mr Sherwood being in the running IMO.
Well yeah, as a club we need a motivating manager, not afraid to get stuck in. We are already in the bottom 3 so yes we need change in how our club is run. That ok for you? Doesn't hurt getting your voice heard instead of being nice little old west brom.
I do think a lot of fan's have totally lost any sense of perspective. Modern game and all that I guess. If this was someone with a better reputation or an unknown quantity like, I dunno, lets say Pepe Mel when he came in, you'd be a laughing stock for suggesting he should go after such a short period of time. You'd be saying they haven't let him bring staff in, you'd say how can he bed 11 players in straight away with all the injuries and fitness issues, you'd make excuse after excuse for him. This is Irvine though he failed at two clubs; I'm sure you've scrutinised his time at both Preston and Sheffield Wednesday in great detail in deduced he is clueless, destined to fail and therefore deserves no time or to be treated fairly.The modern game has created this sense of urgency, and although none of us like it, there is now a detachment between fans and clubs which does cause for impatience. I know I speak for many others when I say usually a manager will have a honeymoon period in his early games and so far we have seen little fight which is deeply concerning. On top of this clubs are now targeting us for points at every game after last seasons poor showing. We want some ambition for our club and Irvine has not shown any, in fact he's showing a lot of respect for the opposition, and we are not playing to our potential. The stakes are so high for staying in this league more than ever so maybe we need a rethink in how we are going to survive. I pray we can get something on Sunday to settle the nerves but I just can't see it. I do agree though, we do need to support the team but that's it, the team, not the clubs hierarchy. I won't condone booing or jeering, I don't think that helps at all, but I can understand the unhappiness at the moment.
Yes we are in the bottom three but we are hardly cut adrift are we? The way the club is run isn't simply the head coach is it? In fact that's a small part of the overall set-up. I hear the 'little old west brom' voices every home game and they aren't nice. We are no better than any fans of any club I've encountered . Inpatient. Great when it's good, negative when it's bad -ironically when you need fans the most. What would set us apart is supporting a struggling side and head coach who desperately needs us but that is not going to happen is it?
The chants of sack the coaching staff should be ringing around the Hawthorns. The fans are too soft though which plays into Peace's hands. The club has been rotten since Ashworth and Hodgson left. No leadership, guidance, direction, nothing. Senior players running the show instead of the manager and players that should have gone ages ago. The whole place stinks of complacency, what's the point? I feel sick how much this Pulis coaching set up is paid by us the fans. Time to stand up and be counted and not be accepting of this utter garbage.
How long would Sherwood have got on the same results?
Longer.We would have seen a totally different approach.All we expect at the Albion is effort and passion, trying to win, thats good enough for me
I want him gone now.
But, I did say from the beginning I'd give him 6 games. So far we've had poor results, but even worse, terrible performances.
What annoys me is Chris Brunt blamed part of last season on a "dead" dressing room under Mel. Well, Pepe is long gone, so what's the problem now? Tea lady not cutting your sandwiches into triangles?
I'm being serious when I say this, perhaps the club should appoint a psychologist for a while to work with the players.
I want all three of them gone, Irvine, Keily and Downing. It will make no difference if just Irvine goes.
Any players that have an objection should be frozen out and got rid of ASAP - they do not run the football club - especially when they can't manage to win a game.
Just as a matter of interest, here are the results up to 14th Sept last season.
17 AUG Southampton H 0 - 1 L
SAT 24 AUG Everton A 0 - 0 D
SUN 1 SEP Swansea H 0 - 2 L
SAT 14 SEP Fulham A 1 - 1 D
So we'd lost both our home games, & drawn 2 away games, scored 1 & conceded 5.
Can't remember anyone calling for SC's head at this stage last season
Just as a matter of interest, here are the results up to 14th Sept last season.
17 AUG Southampton H 0 - 1 L
SAT 24 AUG Everton A 0 - 0 D
SUN 1 SEP Swansea H 0 - 2 L
SAT 14 SEP Fulham A 1 - 1 D
So we'd lost both our home games, & drawn 2 away games, scored 1 & conceded 5.
Can't remember anyone calling for SC's head at this stage last season
What's your point? You're talking as if Clarke turned things round, he didn't.
He did actually, until the game at Chelsea our results improved quite dramatically.
I'm not sure what people expect when you bring 11 new players into a football club, it takes time for them to gell. Personally, I'm expecting no more than survival this season. We saw Liverpool & Villa going through the same scenario when they were re-building.
He turned it round to the extent that we sacked him as the general consensus was we were going down if we didn't.
Let me ask you a question: How much time would you give Irvine?
Let me know then if he stays here for that long we will then discuss what the point was of flogging a dead horse.
It's not my decision, but JP's comments on the first day of the season would suggest that he'd be happy with survival in the EPL together with a decent run in the domestic cup competitions.Transition is fine provided it is progressive, the problem is Irvine appears to be taking us backwards in terms of playing style, therefore even the long term vision is a bleak one.
As far as I can see AI still has "money in the bank" on all three fronts, on the other hand, if it gets to a point where we are becoming cut-off at the base of the EPL ( which is obviously the most lucrative of the competitions), then he would have to act.
I'm not entirely happy with AI, for example, I would like to see Lescott in defense, & I'm not sure why he wasn't playing on Saturday. I'd also like to see GMac brought back, but at 35, he's not the future for WBA is he?, so I can see why Craig Dawson is being given an opportunity.
As a character AI is also quite dour, as a consequence, he's not very endearing.
On the other hand, he's got 11 new players in varying stages of match readyness to incorporate into the playing squad, If we sacked AI today, & brought in another Head Coach or Manager, they would still have that task to do, & that takes time.
We are a team in transition, it's going to be a long season, whoever is in charge.
Just been down to the bookies to place a bet we won't beat Derby's current low of eleven points in the season.
Now I know the bookies rarely get things wrong but we are 4-6 not to beat it :o :o :o :o
Never in a millions years will he be here at Christmas.Can you honestly see us winning a game?The negative way we are playing i cant.Loose the next 2 games ,.Hes gone
Never in a millions years will he be here at Christmas.Can you honestly see us winning a game?The negative way we are playing i cant.Loose the next 2 games ,.Hes gone
I'll be judging Irvine at Christmas at the earliest, you can't say he's not good enough after four Premier League games. I'm looking forward to seeing the new signings fully fit and see what the team is like then.
Just as a matter of interest, here are the results up to 14th Sept last season.The difference is, Clarke did ok in his performance vs Everton and Fulham we could have won - so really it wasn't the the performances and more the results. Of course, Clarke didn't turn it round and was rightfully sacked.
17 AUG Southampton H 0 - 1 L
SAT 24 AUG Everton A 0 - 0 D
SUN 1 SEP Swansea H 0 - 2 L
SAT 14 SEP Fulham A 1 - 1 D
So we'd lost both our home games, & drawn 2 away games, scored 1 & conceded 5.
Can't remember anyone calling for SC's head at this stage last season
Anybody for Irvine Bingo ?Wasn't his latest soundbite something like 'It doesn't matter when you win games as long as you win them', in some bizarre reference to Crystal Palace last season?
'He needs time'
'Not yet where we want the boy to be'
'Individual mistakes'
'No pre-season'
Just as a matter of interest, here are the results up to 14th Sept last season.
17 AUG Southampton H 0 - 1 L
SAT 24 AUG Everton A 0 - 0 D
SUN 1 SEP Swansea H 0 - 2 L
SAT 14 SEP Fulham A 1 - 1 D
So we'd lost both our home games, & drawn 2 away games, scored 1 & conceded 5.
Can't remember anyone calling for SC's head at this stage last season
Have you been to the games? have you seen whats being served up on the field of play.There is absolutely no hope or evidence of any recovery, this dire football also stretches back to pre season
I want him gone now.It is very basic psychology - you have young, energetic men going out onto a field to try to beat another lot at a physical game. If they go out fired up by a respected and enthusiastic older guy they respect telling them to put it about and try to win, they have a hugely greater chance than if a quiet older bloke they quite like with coaching badges is trying to remind them of diagrams about their positional sense in the tunnel.
But, I did say from the beginning I'd give him 6 games. So far we've had poor results, but even worse, terrible performances.
What annoys me is Chris Brunt blamed part of last season on a "dead" dressing room under Mel. Well, Pepe is long gone, so what's the problem now? Tea lady not cutting your sandwiches into triangles?
I'm being serious when I say this, perhaps the club should appoint a psychologist for a while to work with the players.
I've been to both home games, didn't see any of the away games. I don't think it's any worse than it was under SC at this stage last season, after which he staged a recovery until the Chelsea game. The point is SC was given some leeway at this point last season, it was only after the two Villa games that the crowd turned against him.
If Tim Sherwood had been appointed, with the same results, I don't think he would have got this grief.
It is very basic psychology - you have young, energetic men going out onto a field to try to beat another lot at a physical game. If they go out fired up by a respected and enthusiastic older guy they respect telling them to put it about and try to win, they have a hugely greater chance than if a quiet older bloke they quite like with coaching badges is trying to remind them of diagrams about their positional sense in the tunnel.
I know what you mean, & it may well be AI is too technical, on the other hand, you have to have some discipline, especially in defense.
Personally, I don't have too many problems with us going forward, we're creating the chances, just not converting them at the moment, but defensively we're a shambles. You could be right, there could just be too much information.
I've been to both home games, didn't see any of the away games. I don't think it's any worse than it was under SC at this stage last season, after which he staged a recovery until the Chelsea game. The point is SC was given some leeway at this point last season, it was only after the two Villa games that the crowd turned against him.Tim Sherwood does not have a history of failure or playing turgid football.
If Tim Sherwood had been appointed, with the same results, I don't think he would have got this grief.
Just as a matter of interest, here are the results up to 14th Sept last season.
17 AUG Southampton H 0 - 1 L
SAT 24 AUG Everton A 0 - 0 D
SUN 1 SEP Swansea H 0 - 2 L
SAT 14 SEP Fulham A 1 - 1 D
So we'd lost both our home games, & drawn 2 away games, scored 1 & conceded 5.
Can't remember anyone calling for SC's head at this stage last season
Tim Sherwood does not have a history of failure or playing turgid football.
People are missing the point, this is not personal against Irvine because we don't like him, it's because he is serving up exactly what was expected based on what we know of him at previous clubs.
I’m willing to give AI a fair crack. I’ll reserve my judgement until he has had the opportunity to play all our new signings and mould them into a team, if we are still being served up this overly cautious and unimaginative football after that period then I will be hard pressed to support him.
Keep the faith.
Comments on a Sheffield Wednesday forum:
SiJ - "The worst manager I think I've ever seen. Clueless doesn't even cover it."
Bruce Lee - "Worst Wednesday manager in my lifetime And we've had some serious bobbins"
AndoverOwl - "Liam, you have my deepest sympathy. Although he's got loads of badges"
HuddersOwl - "Have you got any coaching badges??? If not then your not allowed to pass comment "
Eccleshall Owl - "The worst 'manager' I've ever seen at SWFC "
Grandad - "Theworst manager I've ever seen at Hillsborough. The worst football. The only time I've ever fallen asleep at Hillsborough was watching his football and it happened 3 times.
SiJ - "The man was scared to take on the likes of Bournemouth in League One, so flip knows what sort of approach he'll adopt for when Chelsea, City come to town. "
Random Task - "He made the pitch as wide as legally possible then proceeded to play 4 central midfielders at home with no wingers. "
Watford Owl - "You can look forward to the biggest bypass of a personality that will make you scream for Dave Jones to come and cheer you up afterwards."
Reading Owl - "TBF I never really disliked the bloke. He was just absolutely rubbish."
Mcmigo - " by far the worst manager we've ever had, it is astonishing he has landed a gig in the Premiership."
Taxi Mark - What have WBA done here, he is one of the worst managers I've seen at Hillsboro' ever!"
Alan Harper - I can't even decide what the low point of the Irvine era was. Playing for a point at Cardiff when only a win would have made any difference? Going down with a whimper against Palace, bringing on a midfelder for a striker just after we'd equalised in a win or bust game? Losing 5-1 at Exeter? Failing to win at home against 9 man Yeovil? Losing 4-0 at Leyton Orient with our own fans chanting (hopefully) "you're getting sacked in the morning"?
Miffed - would be laughing if it were any other club, but I feel for the West Brom fans
SWFC_Liam - "Oh my word that's a shocking appointment, he was awful for us. Took us down into League One, and by February had us sitting in the bottom half looking nervously over our shoulders at the relegation places. He was appointed at a tough time but he didn't help himself. Sets up very negatively, usually a rigid 4-4-2 with very little fluidity. The best bit about it was he made the pitch at Hillsborough absolutely huge but refused to play with wingers, he used 4 central midfield players all the time"
Just a small selection but hardly a glowing reference.
PNE fan here, registered in total peace to give you a PNE perspective on Irvine.
Some of you will remember us as a club that was always up there, near the top of the championship, pushing for play offs but never quite making it. All that changed with Irvines appointment. He single handedly destroyed our club. turned us from a team that were always exciting to watch to one that was as dull as dishwater.
Anyway, here we are, still in div 1, it started with him, and weve never recovered. The most dreadful boring managerial appointment PNE have ever made.
I wish you luck, youre seriously going to need it.
I've looked at his Sheffield Wednesday results before getting sacked, it included one win in eight games in League one and a 5-1 defeat to Exeter and 4-0 defeat to Leyton Orient. The season before in The Championship when he got them relegated he won 1 of the last 10 games. He got sacked from Preston with 1 win in 8 games. So basically when a team goes on a bad run he hasn't got a clue how to stop it. I'm sure he's a good coach and I'm sure he works well with academy players so he would have been a great appointment for the U21 team but as Head Coach it's an abysmal appointment. His style of football is awful too.
Will be awkward/a slight odd reception IF we did get 3 points sunday!
I’m willing to give AI a fair crack. I’ll reserve my judgement until he has had the opportunity to play all our new signings and mould them into a team, if we are still being served up this overly cautious and unimaginative football after that period then I will be hard pressed to support him.
Keep the faith.
Not having a go, but what do you think about Irvine not playing Sessegnon?
Because as far as I understand, he is our most creative and attacking player. I know 'player injuries/gelling' is somewhat relevant but dropping Sessegnon just seems bizarre to me.
I would be delighted to get three points on Sunday but it will still not hide the fact that for me personally I will never understand how Irvine was the best man for the job.and this i think is why there is so much angst amongst the support. The spin the club put on his appointment was utter bullpoo and the majority just cannot comprehend why !!
Apologies Liam, this was your post way back when he was appointed, but I thought it was worth re-posting. Even after 5 games, it is already easy to identify with the comments and nothing seems to have changed in the way he manages/coaches. For those of you that think things may improve, think again !!
uthor=LiamTheBaggie link=topic=13829.msg304164#msg304164 date=1402770312]
Comments on a Sheffield Wednesday forum:
SiJ - "The worst manager I think I've ever seen. Clueless doesn't even cover it."
Bruce Lee - "Worst Wednesday manager in my lifetime And we've had some serious bobbins"
AndoverOwl - "Liam, you have my deepest sympathy. Although he's got loads of badges"
HuddersOwl - "Have you got any coaching badges??? If not then your not allowed to pass comment "
Eccleshall Owl - "The worst 'manager' I've ever seen at SWFC "
Grandad - "Theworst manager I've ever seen at Hillsborough. The worst football. The only time I've ever fallen asleep at Hillsborough was watching his football and it happened 3 times.
SiJ - "The man was scared to take on the likes of Bournemouth in League One, so flip knows what sort of approach he'll adopt for when Chelsea, City come to town. "
Random Task - "He made the pitch as wide as legally possible then proceeded to play 4 central midfielders at home with no wingers. "
Watford Owl - "You can look forward to the biggest bypass of a personality that will make you scream for Dave Jones to come and cheer you up afterwards."
Reading Owl - "TBF I never really disliked the bloke. He was just absolutely rubbish."
Mcmigo - " by far the worst manager we've ever had, it is astonishing he has landed a gig in the Premiership."
Taxi Mark - What have WBA done here, he is one of the worst managers I've seen at Hillsboro' ever!"
Alan Harper - I can't even decide what the low point of the Irvine era was. Playing for a point at Cardiff when only a win would have made any difference? Going down with a whimper against Palace, bringing on a midfelder for a striker just after we'd equalised in a win or bust game? Losing 5-1 at Exeter? Failing to win at home against 9 man Yeovil? Losing 4-0 at Leyton Orient with our own fans chanting (hopefully) "you're getting sacked in the morning"?
Miffed - would be laughing if it were any other club, but I feel for the West Brom fans
SWFC_Liam - "Oh my word that's a shocking appointment, he was awful for us. Took us down into League One, and by February had us sitting in the bottom half looking nervously over our shoulders at the relegation places. He was appointed at a tough time but he didn't help himself. Sets up very negatively, usually a rigid 4-4-2 with very little fluidity. The best bit about it was he made the pitch at Hillsborough absolutely huge but refused to play with wingers, he used 4 central midfield players all the time"
Just a small selection but hardly a glowing reference.
Apologies Liam, this was your post way back when he was appointed, but I thought it was worth re-posting. Even after 5 games, it is already easy to identify with the comments and nothing seems to have changed in the way he manages/coaches. For those of you that think things may improve, think again !!
uthor=LiamTheBaggie link=topic=13829.msg304164#msg304164 date=1402770312]
Comments on a Sheffield Wednesday forum:
SiJ - "The worst manager I think I've ever seen. Clueless doesn't even cover it."
Bruce Lee - "Worst Wednesday manager in my lifetime And we've had some serious bobbins"
AndoverOwl - "Liam, you have my deepest sympathy. Although he's got loads of badges"
HuddersOwl - "Have you got any coaching badges??? If not then your not allowed to pass comment "
Eccleshall Owl - "The worst 'manager' I've ever seen at SWFC "
Grandad - "Theworst manager I've ever seen at Hillsborough. The worst football. The only time I've ever fallen asleep at Hillsborough was watching his football and it happened 3 times.
SiJ - "The man was scared to take on the likes of Bournemouth in League One, so flip knows what sort of approach he'll adopt for when Chelsea, City come to town. "
Random Task - "He made the pitch as wide as legally possible then proceeded to play 4 central midfielders at home with no wingers. "
Watford Owl - "You can look forward to the biggest bypass of a personality that will make you scream for Dave Jones to come and cheer you up afterwards."
Reading Owl - "TBF I never really disliked the bloke. He was just absolutely rubbish."
Mcmigo - " by far the worst manager we've ever had, it is astonishing he has landed a gig in the Premiership."
Taxi Mark - What have WBA done here, he is one of the worst managers I've seen at Hillsboro' ever!"
Alan Harper - I can't even decide what the low point of the Irvine era was. Playing for a point at Cardiff when only a win would have made any difference? Going down with a whimper against Palace, bringing on a midfelder for a striker just after we'd equalised in a win or bust game? Losing 5-1 at Exeter? Failing to win at home against 9 man Yeovil? Losing 4-0 at Leyton Orient with our own fans chanting (hopefully) "you're getting sacked in the morning"?
Miffed - would be laughing if it were any other club, but I feel for the West Brom fans
SWFC_Liam - "Oh my word that's a shocking appointment, he was awful for us. Took us down into League One, and by February had us sitting in the bottom half looking nervously over our shoulders at the relegation places. He was appointed at a tough time but he didn't help himself. Sets up very negatively, usually a rigid 4-4-2 with very little fluidity. The best bit about it was he made the pitch at Hillsborough absolutely huge but refused to play with wingers, he used 4 central midfield players all the time"
Just a small selection but hardly a glowing reference.
I would be delighted to get three points on Sunday but it will still not hide the fact that for me personally I will never understand how Irvine was the best man for the job.
If Irvine was the best man for the job then surely he was the best man in January when he was out of work?
If Irvine was the best man for the job then surely he was the best man in January when he was out of work?
??? I thought he left his job at Everton to work for us? So he's not been out of work for years?
??? I thought he left his job at Everton to work for us? So he's not been out of work for years?
Academy wasnt a real job. Just making sure the soap was topped up in the kids showers probably.
Its time we had a manager to manage all aspects , a coach can assist the manager on the training field.
??? I thought he left his job at Everton to work for us? So he's not been out of work for years?
I don't understand the deal with Downing & Kiely though why are they untouchable? Anybody coming in should bring their staff. Its how things evolve
And finally to Legend, who seems to have become the most optimistic poster on here. This is what you posted before the season started. What on earth have you seen to suddenly make you think that your original assessment was wrong?
I admit on the day he was appointed I couldn't get my head round it and thought it was an awful decision but a few days later I thought why not give him a chance because I thought some of the comments about him from others were over the top. After hearing Peace and Burton explain the decision I come around to the thought that he could do well here and I honestly still believe that he can given time. The large majority don't think so but it's all about opinions.
With the Sheffield Wednesday fans comments well you could compare our comments about Gary Megson to say Bolton or Forest fans. You could look at what the majority of Albion fans think of Mowbray as a manager compared to Celtic and Middlesbrough fans. You could look at how Liverpool or Blackburn fans view Hodgson compared to us. I think Irvine should be judged as West Brom head coach, not what happened elsewhere like I did when he was appointed.
I admit on the day he was appointed I couldn't get my head round it and thought it was an awful decision but a few days later I thought why not give him a chance because I thought some of the comments about him from others were over the top. After hearing Peace and Burton explain the decision I come around to the thought that he could do well here and I honestly still believe that he can given time. The large majority don't think so but it's all about opinions.
With the Sheffield Wednesday fans comments well you could compare our comments about Gary Megson to say Bolton or Forest fans. You could look at what the majority of Albion fans think of Mowbray as a manager compared to Celtic and Middlesbrough fans. You could look at how Liverpool or Blackburn fans view Hodgson compared to us. I think Irvine should be judged as West Brom head coach, not what happened elsewhere like I did when he was appointed
So we have changed the carburettor four times and the car is still playing up. What next?
Hernandaz had no "pre-season" and was waiting for a work permit, but went straight into the Hull team tonight and has just put them 1-0 up
Yes but we have still got some of the old clapped out carburettors in the engine, namely our untouchable assistant coaches who have contributed to the car breaking down with the last 2 head coaches!get a new mechanic ? the one trick pony you've been using don't know nowt but carbs
Yes but we have still got some of the old clapped out carburettors in the engine, namely our untouchable assistant coaches who have contributed to the car breaking down with the last 2 head coaches!
I'm as disappointed as anyone else that our new signings haven't featured but firstly are you sure he didn't have a pre-season for his previous club? Secondly he has also just returned from international duty where he played a part in both games so not sure its even that comparable to some of ours that haven't featured yet.He has a point I mean why not start gamboa, samaras and Blanco then after 45-60 mins monitor there fitness levels, if I'm wrong and there not fit then I apologize but to me it seems Irvine is being over cautious on this front especially when the ones they would be replacing have been complete gash.
Yes but we have still got some of the old clapped out carburettors in the engine, namely our untouchable assistant coaches who have contributed to the car breaking down with the last 2 head coaches!That's the problem-we still use carbs when everyone else has fuel injection
Hmmm... so you're saying that perhaps the problem lies elsewhere then? ;)
He has a point I mean why not start gamboa, samaras and Blanco then after 45-60 mins monitor there fitness levels, if I'm wrong and there not fit then I apologize but to me it seems Irvine is being over cautious on this front especially when the ones they would be replacing have been complete gash.
I admit on the day he was appointed I couldn't get my head round it and thought it was an awful decision but a few days later I thought why not give him a chance because I thought some of the comments about him from others were over the top. After hearing Peace and Burton explain the decision I come around to the thought that he could do well here and I honestly still believe that he can given time. The large majority don't think so but it's all about opinions.
With the Sheffield Wednesday fans comments well you could compare our comments about Gary Megson to say Bolton or Forest fans. You could look at what the majority of Albion fans think of Mowbray as a manager compared to Celtic and Middlesbrough fans. You could look at how Liverpool or Blackburn fans view Hodgson compared to us. I think Irvine should be judged as West Brom head coach, not what happened elsewhere like I did when he was appointed.
He has a point I mean why not start gamboa, samaras and Blanco then after 45-60 mins monitor there fitness levels, if I'm wrong and there not fit then I apologize but to me it seems Irvine is being over cautious on this front especially when the ones they would be replacing have been complete gash.
Don't get me wrong, he is probably just being cautious and it is frustrating as the team that started the first few games is pretty much the same one that has struggled for the last year. We all want the new lads fit and firing as soon as possible but they see the players every day, they have all the medical staff and equipment available to know if they are ready for games or not.I don't know abot the others but Gamboa's English is better than Irvines
Take fitness out of the equation and there are other issues with new players. Have they had enough time to work on how we want them to play so that they understand fully what their roles are? You mention Blanco and Gamboa what is their English like? Plenty to consider when it comes to choosing a starting XI.
Don't get me wrong, he is probably just being cautious and it is frustrating as the team that started the first few games is pretty much the same one that has struggled for the last year. We all want the new lads fit and firing as soon as possible but they see the players every day, they have all the medical staff and equipment available to know if they are ready for games or not.
Take fitness out of the equation and there are other issues with new players. Have they had enough time to work on how we want them to play so that they understand fully what their roles are? You mention Blanco and Gamboa what is their English like? Plenty to consider when it comes to choosing a starting XI.
Varela was frozen out at Porto and is way behind fitness wise. I'm sure Lescott will be the first name on the team sheet in Irvine's mind but he's just coming back from an injury and needs to be managed properly. Irvine stated he wanted creative wingers so why would he not play them when fully fit?
I'm as disappointed as anyone else that our new signings haven't featured but firstly are you sure he didn't have a pre-season for his previous club? Secondly he has also just returned from international duty where he played a part in both games so not sure its even that comparable to some of ours that haven't featured yet.Don't let facts get in the way of opinions.
Thng is Megson, Mowbray and Hodgson were all successful getting us promoted and in Roy's case keeping us up. Irvine was good at PNE for awhile but it ended in relegation. He was awful at Wednesday ended in almost a double relegation if it wasn't for Megson. Also don't forget he was Interviewed after Mowbray and lost out to RDM. Why is he suddenly THE man at a level higher than he's ever managed before, when, he's a proven failure not only at Championship but League 1 level.Did he lose out to RDM? :-X
I think that we all know how he wants them to play. Flat 4-4-2 with no width!You think you know how he wants them to play ;)
Strange how Varela was fit enough to play in the World Cup!
Did he lose out to RDM? :-X
Yep he was the other CandidateWho was offered the job first, (allegedly) and clearly made enough of an impression to be targeted again. No doubt more ammunition to be used against him.
He came off the bench once or twice. He missed Porto's pre season tour apparently which didn't help.
He came off the bench once or twice. He missed Porto's pre season tour apparently which didn't
Who was offered the job first, (allegedly) and clearly made enough of an impression to be targeted again. No doubt more ammunition to be used against him.
To be honest when Irvine does go downing and kiely have to shoulder some responsibility and pack up and leave with him.
We have got to break this old pals act going on we need a strong head coach that's not afraid to drop anyone.
And this is the big one for me we need a leader on that pitch and it's certainly not Chris brunt I would hand it to mulumbu.
To me ever since brunt was made captain he's been a shadow of the player we know he can be.
You think you know how he wants them to play ;)
Although the start to our season has been lacklustre and underwhelming, Irvine and his team have to be given a reasonable amount of time to show what they can do. We'll have a better idea in a month or two and that still won't be too late to change things around if necessary. And remember, on Saturday it wasn't the new players' fault - crucial mistakes were made by Olsson and Foster, two experienced Albion stalwarts.
No that's the way he plays has done everywhere he has been, not using the players at his disposal will ultimately cost him his job. Never mind uncle Keith and uncle Dean can look after the boys!I suggest you read the posts by Quakes Fan earlier in this thread which actually puts into context his time at Preston and Sheff Wed ;-)
For all the conspiracy theorists, if Irvine only wants to play negative football how much influence did he have in bringing Blanco, Varela and Samaras to the club? Last three players to be brought in, two months after he was employed. My understanding of our recruitment process is that coach and director of football identify the areas that need strengthening and the backroom staff identify the players that fit the bill and are available in our price bracket? Why bring in any wingers? JP rarely wastes his money. Or maybe they aren't actually ready to play yet. :-X
The manner of the displays has left much to be desired and I'd far far rather pepe Mel was still around. But we're possibly 2 points down on what I'd have called a good return. Possibly a draw with Everton and maybe a win vs Sunderland. But the draw against Southampton is a bonus in my book! If we lose to spurs. Lets not all go mad! I totally agree with the view he seems very negative. But we're hardly adrift!
I admit on the day he was appointed I couldn't get my head round it and thought it was an awful decision but a few days later I thought why not give him a chance because I thought some of the comments about him from others were over the top. After hearing Peace and Burton explain the decision I come around to the thought that he could do well here and I honestly still believe that he can given time. The large majority don't think so but it's all about opinions.
With the Sheffield Wednesday fans comments well you could compare our comments about Gary Megson to say Bolton or Forest fans. You could look at what the majority of Albion fans think of Mowbray as a manager compared to Celtic and Middlesbrough fans. You could look at how Liverpool or Blackburn fans view Hodgson compared to us. I think Irvine should be judged as West Brom head coach, not what happened elsewhere like I did when he was appointed.
Please can we stop the mistake of thinking a head coach is not the same on match day as a manager.
The most important thing imo that both should have is a tactical awareness of what is happening on the pitch and what to do to affect it.
I agree that the head coach does not always have the players he may always want, but i dont honestly think this squad we now have, is bottom 3 potential.
From what i have seen so far its not promising, but we must give the bloke a little more time now the squad is fully fit, or how else can you explain that no senior players were involved tonight.
I think it will be xmas before we have any idea if he is the right man and we are all wrong, or we are doomed to play the dingles next year god forbid.
The football under Mel was just as bad, its hilarious how rose tinted the view is. We were absolutely shocking. The last 3 games of the season, The 2-0 loss at Hull, the 3-1 loss at Palace, the 3-0 to Man U.... These were all dreadful games that we didn't get in at all and looked basically exactly how we have done the last 2 games. The guy had a 17% win record, that's amongst the worst to have ever been in the premier league.That's because he was stitched up like a kipper by all and sundry and never had the opportunity to bring in players who were better suited for his preferred style of play. On the rare occasions where we did use his pressing style, we actually looked very good!
I suggest you read the posts by Quakes Fan earlier in this thread which actually puts into context his time at Preston and Sheff Wed ;-)It is quite interesting what a bit of research shows rather than relying on gossip on internet forums.
Had a more than 40% win ratio at both clubs, better than most of the managers that managed the clubs during similar period, not bad return for such negativity.
It is quite interesting what a bit of research shows rather than relying on gossip on internet forums.
His "failures" in a bit more context.
Made manager of Preston when they were 21st in the division and fighting a relegation battle and finished 15th, failure? Following season got them in the play offs, failure? Sacked in 2009 when in 16th position (ended in 17th) and Preston fans demonstrated about his sacking, failure?
Appointed Sheff Wednesday manager 9 days after getting the sack from Preston (impressive turn around) when they were in 22nd but didn't keep them up. Failure?
Was the 7th manager of Sheff Wednesday in 10 years, prior to his appointment SW avoided relegation on the last day of the season, then finished 12th and were in a relegation spot when he joined. They went into administration 3 months after he arrived and was dismissed by a new chairman a month after he arrived at the club with the club in 15th. Arguably his time at Sheff Wed was a failure, but in the context of the club at the time anything but failure would probably have been a miracle.
It is quite interesting what a bit of research shows rather than relying on gossip on internet forums.
His "failures" in a bit more context.
Made manager of Preston when they were 21st in the division and fighting a relegation battle and finished 15th, failure? Following season got them in the play offs, failure? Sacked in 2009 when in 16th position (ended in 17th) and Preston fans demonstrated about his sacking, failure?
Appointed Sheff Wednesday manager 9 days after getting the sack from Preston (impressive turn around) when they were in 22nd but didn't keep them up. Failure?
Was the 7th manager of Sheff Wednesday in 10 years, prior to his appointment SW avoided relegation on the last day of the season, then finished 12th and were in a relegation spot when he joined. They went into administration 3 months after he arrived and was dismissed by a new chairman a month after he arrived at the club with the club in 15th. Arguably his time at Sheff Wed was a failure, but in the context of the club at the time anything but failure would probably have been a miracle.
Interesting contrast that Steve Bruce mentioned that Ben Arfa was a few pounds overweight when he arrived, yet he played in Tuesday's 'friendly' game against us and came on for the last 15 against West Ham tonight.
The football under Mel was much more pleasing on the eye how anyone can say any different is beyond me.If only Mel had been given a smidgen in resources as what Ted has had.Loose the next 2 and he will be gone.1 point will most likely drag it on a little longer, then come Liverpool and Man UtdCan we make up our mind, was it Mel or was it Downing and Kiely or was it all the good things Mel and all the bad stuff Downing and Kiely?
Sacked wherever he as been as a head, hes a failurePepe Mel sacked at Rayo, Real Betis and West brom, failure?
The above may well be the case - however the football witnessed thus far is drab and negative. If you're suggesting his record is good enough for West Brom. I suggest we sell the entire squad and buy players who have (generally) never played above mid-table in the championship!
It is quite interesting what a bit of research shows rather than relying on gossip on internet forums.
His "failures" in a bit more context.
Made manager of Preston when they were 21st in the division and fighting a relegation battle and finished 15th, failure? Following season got them in the play offs, failure? Sacked in 2009 when in 16th position (ended in 17th) and Preston fans demonstrated about his sacking, failure?
Appointed Sheff Wednesday manager 9 days after getting the sack from Preston (impressive turn around) when they were in 22nd but didn't keep them up. Failure?
Was the 7th manager of Sheff Wednesday in 10 years, prior to his appointment SW avoided relegation on the last day of the season, then finished 12th and were in a relegation spot when he joined. They went into administration 3 months after he arrived and was dismissed by a new chairman a month after he arrived at the club with the club in 15th. Arguably his time at Sheff Wed was a failure, but in the context of the club at the time anything but failure would probably have been a miracle.
Four league matches and a squad that has never been fully available since he arrived. ???
And it hasn't all been drab but we can gloss over that. ;)
I guess the counter argument to that is - if he was so good or even solid, why hasn't he been in management since? ,,,,,,,, which makes me wonder ...............has he even wanted to be since? Has he applied for managers jobs in between times? Or have we head hunted someone who had no burning desire to return to management but we gave him an opportunity too tempting to refuse?That is one he would have to answer himself, any other answer is mere speculation.
That was his record in the Championship and League 1. This is the Premier League! at totally different kettle of fish.How did Brendan Rogers get on with Reading in the Championship?
How did Brendan Rogers get on with Reading in the Championship?
I wish I had the interest to even discuss the bloke.Exactly my thoughts when I saw the U21 team selection. Looks like he had already been brainwashed into becoming part of the deadly duo's chummy pals setup. Same team Sunday then!
As it is, I haven't.
Get him gone.
I want to ask him this question.
'If all of the new signings are still not match fit, could you give us an indication as to why none of them were involved in the U21 match on Monday evening?'
Bottom line is he's got no interest in playing them (Lescott aside). Ridiculous management.
If he had a brain, he'd be dangerous.
Exactly my thoughts when I saw the U21 team selection. Looks like he had already been brainwashed into becoming part of the deadly duo's chummy pals setup. Same team Sunday then!Do you really think Peace will sit around and watch players he has paid good money for sit about doing nothing?
I saw a tweet this morning mentioning that Irvine had been given 4 weeks to save his job.
Spurs (a)
Hull (h) cup
Burnley (h)
Liverpool (a)
Good luck then Al, you'll need it.
Two totally different mind sets like comparing chalk & cheese.Not the point, if Liverpool had not looked beyond Rodger's "failure" at Reading they wouldn't necessarily be playing Champions League football this season. They also only got two points out of their first five league matches under his charge. :-X
They are totally different were it counts most & thats on a match day monday - friday they both know what there up to.
I saw a tweet this morning mentioning that Irvine had been given 4 weeks to save his job.What is JP or Martin Swains twitter account because I'd like to follow them? ::)
Spurs (a)
Hull (h) cup
Burnley (h)
Liverpool (a)
Good luck then Al, you'll need it.
Not the point, if Liverpool had not looked beyond Rodger's "failure" at Reading they wouldn't necessarily be playing Champions League football this season. They also only got two points out of their first five league matches under his charge. :-X
Again, not suggesting Irvine will be as successful as Rodgers (we don't have Liverpool's resource) but needs to be given a chance.
Given a chance to absolutely ruin us and coach any attacking flair and creativity out of our squad? No ta.Because you know that is happening. ::)
Because you know that is happening. ::)
Because you know that is happening. ::)
Do you know it's not?
You can post all the sarcastic comments, rolling eye emojis and positive spin you want, it will never make Alan Irvine any less of a clueless prat.
He's going going and hopefully soon to be gone. Disasterous appointment.
He's going going and hopefully soon to be gone. Disasterous appointment.
Gut feeling mate or something more concrete?
well continuing on from baggie96, if we get beat heavily at Spurs he'll be gone if we don't he will get the cup game and Burnley
That sounds about right. Having said that, decision much depends on who's available?
If anything stops them, that will be the only reason, for sure.
The signs are that the board now know he's not the next Roy Hodgson, probably get a bit more time for when the players are fit. But the club were annoyed with the arrangement of a friendly last week and then not one of the players who it was for played the weekend from the start. Irvine needs to take some risks with the players fitness as it has never been an issue before, think Odemwingie. Even for other clubs, Ben arfa has had less pre season than any of our other signings yet manages to play last night for 15-20 mins. Varela, in a slightly better situation is no where near our team at the moment. Truly baffling
I'm pretty sure no appointment could be any worse than this one but does anyone really trust the club to get the next one right? I've lost all faith in the clubs recruitment both staff and player wise. It seems to have fallen apart over the last 18 months.
well continuing on from baggie96, if we get beat heavily at Spurs he'll be gone if we don't he will get the cup game and Burnley
If it was Pulis, I wouldn't even be worried about Downing and Kiely staying because there would be no blurred lines, no confusion who was actually in charge, no "we do it this way here". They'd have to fall in line or their roles would be marginalised by TP.
Says who?
Says who?
aint it funny 12 months ago we would have said noooooooooooooo to Pulis but i like many consider him god now :)I think a lot of fans would be much happier with any of the names we turned our noses up at in the past
aint it funny 12 months ago we would have said noooooooooooooo to Pulis but i like many consider him god now :)
Right ok then here goes
The next 4 games
Tottenham
Burnley
Livepool
Man utd
How many points will save his skin
We then have a run of 3 winnable games but i said that at the start of the season. Palace, Leicester, Newcastle
We then have Arsenal and Chelsea
Next 4 games I want/expect 4 points. I don't think this is unrealistic - and also for us to win our cup tie. 6 points from 8 games isn't a particularly pleasing return but considering we would have played Everton, Spurs, Liverpool and United its not wholly unexpected.
Personally I have a feeling that Palace at home at the end of October will be a big game in our season.
Next 4 games I want/expect 4 points. I don't think this is unrealistic - and also for us to win our cup tie. 6 points from 8 games isn't a particularly pleasing return but considering we would have played Everton, Spurs, Liverpool and United its not wholly unexpected.
Personally I have a feeling that Palace at home at the end of October will be a big game in our season.
Have to say i think Irvine is on a hiding to nothing but i think we need to get some perspective.A well thought out and articulated post but agree that you are wasting your time. Rationality is something that is rare in some fans and Irvine will never be accepted now no matter what is achieved. His next loss will be expected to be his last one no matter when it is or who it is against. We currently have fans wanting him to lose.
I dont know of one person who wanted him as coach (i didnt want him either) and i still dont think he is the right person for the job but he has to be given some time to prove himself, not 4 league games and a cup match! (Which by hook or by crook we won)
Whoever came in was going to have a massive job, the last 18 months upto this summer had been drab, there appeared to be a culture and mentality within the club and with the players we got rid of it was a chance for a fresh start.
A fresh start doesnt happen overnight, i know he is getting a lot of stick for new players not playing but none of us know their fitness levels, we dont work with them everyday so its to easy to say throw them in. Players who were signed preseason (Wisdom, Poco, Baird, Gardner) have all featured reguarly so it shows he isnt tied into some having to pick the existing players that were there and they rule the roost. Lescott played Pre-season and got injured, thats not Irvines fault.
For those saying chuck them in, Samaras and Davidson as far as i know are the only ones who played since May when they played at tge World Cup, even then they were out by end of June and clubless til middle of August so they could of done training on their own but its not the same as a preseason. Blanco and Varela i dont think had any real preseason so they are playing catchup and if an example is needed, Ideye (who came in a bit before Samaras, Davidson, Blanco and Varela) and did do some training still looks yards off the pace and the other lads are even further behind him!
It is frustrating as we all want to see the best players we have but these blokes havent played in the premiership before (which is widely acknowledged as completely different to anywhere else in terms of pace and stamina) and worst thing is to chuck them in when they arent fit and they get injured after an hour and out for weeks, Morrison Saturday had gone by the hour and they game bypassed him. I only play Sunday league level nowadays but was lucky enough to play at a good standard and the higher you go, fitness and sharpness becomes even more crucial, even now if i have a few weeks off over Xmas next game back i am struggling.
Basically you would hope if Irvine had the new signings available they would play, i am sure he wants to win games as much as anyone. I would hope that the new signings would maybe play another closed doors game this week and then be ready for Sunday, Spurs last season spent over £100m on new signings and they never really gelled, Liverpool this season have lost 2 of their first 4, Man United were poor there first few games, but given time they will come good, although they have better players than us, the same thing applies - it dont happen overnight.
What we have seen so far Irvine hasnt given us a great deal to get excited about, however he is still having to play 75% of last seasons squad who have been in poor form for 18 months and probably very low on confidence, we have a lot of new players to come in who can freshen it up and so lets judge then. I think he has made mistakes, the first 2 x games were positive, but since then we have got worse, however the best coach in the world cannot do much if people make individual errors like we have done, what he can do when he has the players available is replace those who make the errors.
As i say i dont expect Irvine to succeed, i think even if we won the next 4, the next defeat people will be straight back onto him because he is Alan Irvine and he isnt an exciting name, Pepe Mel was worshipped by some yet he had 20 odd games in charge i think and i would say out of those we were decent in about 5 maximum, Irvine has been decent in 2 out of 5, so maybe he does deserve a bit more time.
Whoever came in had a massive job and i think would of struggled, yet the atmosphere at the game Saturday was poisonous, thats where we as fans need to look at ourselves in my opinion, i have always said if a player does something stupid like punching someone, boo him, if the players arent trying (which it looked as though they didnt lots of times last season) let them know, boo them, but when they are trying and just either a) not good enough or b) make mistakes (which we all do) whats the point? We all groan or moan if somebody does something wrong but the prolonged booing, jeering, etc is pathetic and on Saturday you could sense it before the game and it set the tone. The players have to give something for us to cheer about, but although Swansea was a shocker, the 2 x league games prior to that against Sunderland and Southampton i think the players had gave enough that they at least deserved support against Everton rather than the booing and jeering that took place.
The scales have tipped too far with the supporters. I cannot see him turning them around, he needs two wins minimum from the next 4 games. If we fail to beat Burnley there will be no return. That said I didn't think the atmosphere was as bad Saturday as some are making out, it was just very flat. If anything it was far worse in the Oxford game.Four league matches. Finely balanced scales.
Four league matches. Finely balanced scales.
No signs of fight, decent football, attacking focus, tactical nous and 4 games to come 3 of which we would normally expect to get very little from and another the fans will accept nothing less than 3 points. Then it becomes 8 league games, add that to the cup debacle (performance wise) and a possible exit from the competition next Wednesday and suddenly it doesn't look so knee jerk.I have no affinity for the man nor was I part of the recruitment process so don't know the reason for his appointment.
Fair play to you mate for fighting your corner and sticking to your principles but I have to ask you why you think the man deserves us to give him time, how has he earned the prestigious office he finds himself holding, because nobody seems to know. The best scenario is to get him out of the club asap, because he is doomed to fail. Ask Alex McLeish, or Hodgson at Liverpool (managers with much better track records); if the fans don't want you, you won't succeed.
Whatever the real reason, Irvine has had a limited pool of players to choose from (or he chose to choose from) for these first games. I do not like what I have seen so far, but let's judge him from now onwards when he has a full pack to deal from. That will tell us what he is really like. If that proves to be much the same as we have already seen then so be it. But let's see what the real Irvine is before we condemn him.Clearly Peace saw something in him beyond the Preston/SheffWed technocrat (failed), hope it comes to the fore soon!
I would hope that the new signings would maybe play another closed doors game this week and then be ready for Sunday,Some of them could have played in yesterday's U21 game, but none of them did. Irvine seems to be waiting for them to get match fit but without them appearing in matches! It's hard not to conclude that the more attack-minded they are, the more time he seems to think they need before being regarded as fit enough to start. He had no choice but to put Bobby in, as there would be even more uproar if he carried on leaving him out after we'd paid £10 for him.
Pepe Mel was worshipped by some yet he had 20 odd games in charge i think and i would say out of those we were decent in about 5 maximum, Irvine has been decent in 2 out of 5, so maybe he does deserve a bit more time.Pepe Mel had 17 games "in charge" I think. He didn't get to sign players or have a full pre-season with the squad, so your comparison between him and Irvine is unfair in my opinion.
Whoever came in had a massive job and i think would of struggled, yet the atmosphere at the game Saturday was poisonousThat was always going to be a danger when Peace decided to bring him in. You'd be hard pushed to find a fan who wanted Irvine to come in, and what they've seen so far makes it look like they were right, hence the poisonous atmosphere. The only thing that might conceivably change it is to see him introduce a much more attack-minded approach, but has he got it in him, when his attitude has always been to fear the opposition?
Clearly Peace saw something in him beyond the Preston/SheffWed technocrat (failed), hope it comes to the fore soon!
PS mrmojorisin, is your screen name the anagram of Jim Morrison from LAWoman?
Going on what we have seen during Pre season and so far i hope Jack Russell is taking note wherever he is , and to think he used to call Steve Clarke a "Dour Scot" ! ;DSometimes I worry about him
It is quite interesting what a bit of research shows rather than relying on gossip on internet forums.
His "failures" in a bit more context.
Made manager of Preston when they were 21st in the division and fighting a relegation battle and finished 15th, failure? Following season got them in the play offs, failure? Sacked in 2009 when in 16th position (ended in 17th) and Preston fans demonstrated about his sacking, failure?
Appointed Sheff Wednesday manager 9 days after getting the sack from Preston (impressive turn around) when they were in 22nd but didn't keep them up. Failure?
Was the 7th manager of Sheff Wednesday in 10 years, prior to his appointment SW avoided relegation on the last day of the season, then finished 12th and were in a relegation spot when he joined. They went into administration 3 months after he arrived and was dismissed by a new chairman a month after he arrived at the club with the club in 15th. Arguably his time at Sheff Wed was a failure, but in the context of the club at the time anything but failure would probably have been a miracle.
It certainly is. The Doors - best band ever.
I've been in the give him time camp..I still am..... just.
what I have been disillusioned with is line ups especially against Everton. Lescott plays 90 mins against Hull and according to Irvine plays well yet doesn't even make the match day squad, Blanco and Gamboa on the bench, no Sessegnon no Varela. All players who would've improved the line up.
He is far too reactive rather than trying to be proactive. After 60 minutes of huffing and puffing against Everton it was obvious to everyone we needed some pace and quality. Instead he waits until we are 2-0 down and gives the subs 15 minutes to do something.
I wish he would succeed but I'm beginning to agree with those who say he's out of his depth at this level.
You can't blame him, you can only blame the people who appointed him, he's so out of his depth it's quite scary. He looks anything but comfortable in the dugout and the interviews give off well rehearsed answers.
Can't see him lasting until the end of October at all. Either way Peace has a HUGE appointment next.
I don't get the out of his depth argument. Was he out of his depth when he tactically outclassed Koeman?
I must have missed that. I do remember him parking the bus against a team just as disjointed and "work-in-progress" as ourselves instead of going for the throat.
I think that is very unfair - internet forums are just a medium for fans to give their views - and I am not too quick to write of the views of those who have actually watched a lot of what he has to offer (a lot more than most football people would have seen).When I suggest internet gossip I mean people who can not qualify their statement. "He was the worst manager ever" "he only plays negative football". A bit of research shows he has a better win percentage than other Sheff W managers of a similar era but yes, he failed to improve a poor club at a poor time in their history. As someone has pointed out above, league 1and Premier league can not becompared. Alex Ferguson got sacked at St Mirren before he became the manager he was. :o
Sheffield Wednesday fans (and to a lesser extent Preston fans) told us what to expect about his football. Admittedly Preston fans did not really want him to go and did support him, although I think you haven't really given the full story about the position Preston were in when Irvine took over - they had finished 5th, 4th and 7th in the 3 seasons leading up to Irvine taking over and he took over only a few months into the new season so it was a false position going on their previous record and their squad at the time.
The fact that the football served up at the moment, right down to the shape of our midfield, is exactly what Sheff Wednesday fans said that it would be, hints that they did have a point and it was not merely "internet gossip".
When I suggest internet gossip I mean people who can not qualify their statement. "He was the worst manager ever" "he only plays negative football". A bit of research shows he has a better win percentage than other Sheff W managers of a similar era but yes, he failed to improve a poor club at a poor time in their history. As someone has pointed out above, league 1and Premier league can not becompared. Alex Ferguson got sacked at St Mirren before he became the manager he was. :o
I don't get the out of his depth argument. Was he out of his depth when he tactically outclassed Koeman?
I think we were fortunate in that game against Southampton as they were still getting into their stride. I think that it would be far more difficult to get a result if we played them now
I can't comment about how he did at Preston, but the records say he did just ok. However, he did very badly at Wednesday regardless of how you sugar coat it - his football/negativity was pulling them towards league 2 before he was sacked, it's not gossip - he was just dreadful.Not sugar coating it. He managed a poop club during a poop time in its history.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sheffield_Wednesday_F.C._managers
Not sugar coating it. He managed a poop club during a poop time in its history.
I appreciate that it is Wikipedia but he wasn't the worst manager they ever had despite what they say.
He was never qualified for such a high profile job, and he is clearly out of his depth.I do actually think he might walk quite soon. He does seem a decent enough man, and that may be the only way he can save any self-respect.
I doubt he'll forego his pay-off and fall on his sword.
But, here's hoping!
I don't even know what to say on the subject of Alan Irvine any more. For those who are still vomiting sunshine and optimism about our Head Coach, could you name me any current Premier League managers who are worse? Or would any of the other 19 clubs in this league swap their manager for Alan Irvine?Newcastle 8)
I watched them at Anfield the week before and they were very good. You could say we're still getting into our stride too and as the new signings come into the team we'll be a good balanced outfit.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sheffield_Wednesday_F.C._managers
Not sugar coating it. He managed a poop club during a poop time in its history.
I appreciate that it is Wikipedia but he wasn't the worst manager they ever had despite what they say.
It's not all about statistics, ask any Wednesday fan and they'll tell you he was their worst ever manager. It's like saying Tony Mowbray did better as a manager than Megson - as his win rate was better, obviously Megson operated under less funds etc.
You're conveniently missing out the fact that Irvine had one of the biggest budgets in the division...there's no excuse, are you seriously trying to say all of the Wednesday fans are wrong in their opinions of him? They're not exactly 'thick' fans are they?
It's not all about statistics, ask any Wednesday fan and they'll tell you he was their worst ever manager. It's like saying Tony Mowbray did better as a manager than Megson - as his win rate was better, obviously Megson operated under less funds etc.You're correct it isn't all about statistics. You are conveniently missing out the fact that for a club with one of the biggest budgets they were fighting off winding up proceedings off the field. Not all Wednesday fans will say he is their worst manager in the same way that not all Albion fans will agree that Megson was better than Mowbray.
You're conveniently missing out the fact that Irvine had one of the biggest budgets in the division...there's no excuse, are you seriously trying to say all of the Wednesday fans are wrong in their opinions of him? They're not exactly 'thick' fans are they?
It's not all about statistics, ask any Wednesday fan and they'll tell you he was their worst ever manager. It's like saying Tony Mowbray did better as a manager than Megson - as his win rate was better, obviously Megson operated under less funds etc.
You're conveniently missing out the fact that Irvine had one of the biggest budgets in the division...there's no excuse, are you seriously trying to say all of the Wednesday fans are wrong in their opinions of him? They're not exactly 'thick' fans are they?
Wednesday had three winding-up orders while Irvine was there. He had virtually no budget.
I'd say their fans are exactly the same as his current club's fans.
You're correct it isn't all about statistics. You are conveniently missing out the fact that for a club with one of the biggest budgets they were fighting off winding up proceedings off the field. Not all Wednesday fans will say he is their worst manager in the same way that not all Albion fans will agree that Megson was better than Mowbray.Except this point is hugely flawed, because a manager's history is extremely relevant- it's the single best indicator of how a manager is likely to perform at future clubs.
The point being made is that where we are now, his history is irrelevant (and debatable :D), and what happens here is what matters.
He had quite a lot towards the end of the reign.
Didn't take long for Mandaric to make the right decision and sack him off after something what must have been no wins in six :D
He had quite a lot towards the end of the reign.He bought 5 players in January and was sacked on 6 February. Given lots of time to gel :D
Didn't take long for Mandaric to make the right decision and sack him off after something what must have been no wins in six :D
Except this point is hugely flawed, because a manager's history is extremely relevant- it's the single best indicator of how a manager is likely to perform at future clubs.It is an indicator but you can not compare Sheff Wednesday in 2010 to West Bromwich Albion in 2014.
It is an indicator but you can not compare Sheff Wednesday in 2010 to West Bromwich Albion in 2014.
Tony Mowbray did wonders at West Brom but that was not replicated at Celtic or Middlesbrough.
Di Matteo did well to get another managers job after his time at the Albion but won the Champions League at Chelsea and has been unemployed since 2012.
Alex Ferguson failed at St Mirren but went on to become one of the most successful managers in the world.
so what exactly is your criteria for appointing a manager - put all the names in a hat, close your eyes and pick one out, because it matters not what they have done in the past???
of course I am being a bit flippant there, but surely there has to be something that is taken into account?
He bought 5 players in January and was sacked on 6 February. Given lots of time to gel :D
One of the five was playing at the club until last season, another is still there and playing regularly.
It is an indicator but you can not compare Sheff Wednesday in 2010 to West Bromwich Albion in 2014.All of those managers experienced success before being hired by similar sized or bigger clubs- Mowbray at Hibs and here, Di Matteo at MK Dons and here, Ferguson at Aberdeen. Di Matteo went on to win the Champions League and Ferguson became perhaps the most successful manager in history. At least they earned the right to pick up the jobs that they did. The fact that Mowbray failed at Celtic and Middlesborough despite his previous successes doesn't prove there is no relationship between success at different clubs- it only suggests that even previously successful managers may fail at future clubs. That in itself can't say anything about Irvine's likely success here, but it certainly doesn't champion his case in any way. There aren't many cases where a manager fails, twice, and then is suddenly a success at a higher level. Although this may have happened once or twice, I think it's fair to say that positive signs would at least be needed to warrant time and patience with such an appointment- what are the positive signs from Irvine's first five games? We've probably got progressively worse over the course of them.
Tony Mowbray did wonders at West Brom but that was not replicated at Celtic or Middlesbrough.
Di Matteo did well to get another managers job after his time at the Albion but won the Champions League at Chelsea and has been unemployed since 2012.
Alex Ferguson failed at St Mirren but went on to become one of the most successful managers in the world.
Coaching ability and managerial experience at a club similar to us would be two things I would look out for to find a potential head coach.
Coaching ability and managerial experience at a club similar to us would be two things I would look out for to find a potential head coach.Presumably the degree of success within their managerial experience would be the most important aspect of their experience? Otherwise having decades of failure would qualify someone as a good manager.
One was constantly injured last season and the other spent more time in prison than on the pitch :DNeither of which was down to Alan Irvine. The point being made and missed, two of the five signings he made in the January 2010 window before getting sacked in February, in such an unsuccessful period are/were still on the books as of the end of last season.
so what exactly is your criteria for appointing a manager - put all the names in a hat, close your eyes and pick one out, because it matters not what they have done in the past???Do you believe that is how he was appointed? I am guessing that Jeremy Peace, as a very astute businessman, had a robust recruitment process involving "due diligence" and appropriate interviews.I wwould also hope, and expect in the case of Alan Irvine and any other candidate, that he examined their past history and made judgements based on fact rather than emotion. In the same way that very few of the supporters know what is happening at the Albion, very few Sheff Wed fans can know what was happening at Sheff Wed; they can only base their judgements on what they see happen on the pitch on a Saturday. Yes, probably the most important aspect of the job, but we have fans slagging off the guy for not picking an injured centre half or midfielder. Do you know the position behind the scenes at Sheff W during his reign?
of course I am being a bit flippant there, but surely there has to be something that is taken into account?
Do you believe that is how he was appointed? I am guessing that Jeremy Peace, as a very astute businessman, had a robust recruitment process involving "due diligence" and appropriate interviews.I wwould also hope, and expect in the case of Alan Irvine and any other candidate, that he examined their past history and made judgements based on fact rather than emotion. In the same way that very few of the supporters know what is happening at the Albion, very few Sheff Wed fans can know what was happening at Sheff Wed; they can only base their judgements on what they see happen on the pitch on a Saturday. Yes, probably the most important aspect of the job, but we have fans slagging off the guy for not picking an injured centre half or midfielder. Do you know the position behind the scenes at Sheff W during his reign?If we have to dismiss conjecture and stick to facts to achieve balance, then the fact of the matter is that at present we are poor defensively (conceded 8 ) and weak going forward (scored 3, only 1 of which was from open play) and are subsequently in the bottom 3. Surely the coaching staff have to be accountable for that??
Just trying to bring a balance to the witch hunt.
Do you believe that is how he was appointed? I am guessing that Jeremy Peace, as a very astute businessman, had a robust recruitment process involving "due diligence" and appropriate interviews.I wwould also hope, and expect in the case of Alan Irvine and any other candidate, that he examined their past history and made judgements based on fact rather than emotion. In the same way that very few of the supporters know what is happening at the Albion, very few Sheff Wed fans can know what was happening at Sheff Wed; they can only base their judgements on what they see happen on the pitch on a Saturday. Yes, probably the most important aspect of the job, but we have fans slagging off the guy for not picking an injured centre half or midfielder. Do you know the position behind the scenes at Sheff W during his reign?i can safely say before the interviews began with AI JP's reaction was very similar to ours and that is fact
Just trying to bring a balance to the witch hunt.
I wouldn't be surprised if AI was be kept on until the end of the season & beyond for the simple reason JP head hunted him & would look a fool if he had to sack him now.
Hope I'm wrong & AI proves me wrong & turns it all a round.
I think paul lambert is an average manager at best, but even he had the "balls" to make 3 changes at once when we were pasting his side. can you forsee any circumstance where AI would do that?If we go a goal up early doors he might bring on 3 defenders.
I wouldn't be surprised if AI was be kept on until the end of the season & beyond for the simple reason JP head hunted him & would look a fool if he had to sack him now.not a chance that will happen and JP didn't head hunt as I've stated in previous post,
Hope I'm wrong & AI proves me wrong & turns it all a round.
I wouldn't be surprised if AI was be kept on until the end of the season & beyond for the simple reason JP head hunted him & would look a fool if he had to sack him now.
Hope I'm wrong & AI proves me wrong & turns it all a round.
Do you think JP cares enough about anyone's opinion to lose a substantial portion of his net worth rather than admit a mistake? I'm quite sure he will sack anyone the second he concludes it would make the difference between staying up and relegation.
If he takes us down and is still there next season i wont be renewing
Like the time you weren't going to renew because the Halfords wasn't to be redeveloped? Or the time you weren't going to renew if Pepe Mel was to be sacked? Or the time you weren't going to renew because AI was appointed. Come on mate, JP knows your future renewals are money in the bank :)
He bought 5 players in January and was sacked on 6 February. Given lots of time to gel :DIim not being funny but i don't see how your qualified to comment on sheff weds matters I think that's best left to their supporters and didn't one of them say he was the worst manager he had ever since in all his time attending Hillsborough.
One of the five was playing at the club until last season, another is still there and playing regularly.
Do you believe that is how he was appointed? I am guessing that Jeremy Peace, as a very astute businessman, had a robust recruitment process involving "due diligence" and appropriate interviews.I wwould also hope, and expect in the case of Alan Irvine and any other candidate, that he examined their past history and made judgements based on fact rather than emotion. In the same way that very few of the supporters know what is happening at the Albion, very few Sheff Wed fans can know what was happening at Sheff Wed; they can only base their judgements on what they see happen on the pitch on a Saturday. Yes, probably the most important aspect of the job, but we have fans slagging off the guy for not picking an injured centre half or midfielder. Do you know the position behind the scenes at Sheff W during his reign?
Just trying to bring a balance to the witch hunt.
Do you believe that is how he was appointed? I am guessing that Jeremy Peace, as a very astute businessman, had a robust recruitment process involving "due diligence" and appropriate interviews.I wwould also hope, and expect in the case of Alan Irvine and any other candidate, that he examined their past history and made judgements based on fact rather than emotion. In the same way that very few of the supporters know what is happening at the Albion, very few Sheff Wed fans can know what was happening at Sheff Wed; they can only base their judgements on what they see happen on the pitch on a Saturday. Yes, probably the most important aspect of the job, but we have fans slagging off the guy for not picking an injured centre half or midfielder. Do you know the position behind the scenes at Sheff W during his reign?
Just trying to bring a balance to the witch hunt.
This is very true
http://domroberts.com/west-bromwich-albion-an-analysis/
He finally got some money in January 2011, but the new players couldn't have played much before he got sacked on 3 February.
Iim not being funny but i don't see how your qualified to comment on sheff weds matters I think that's best left to their supporters and didn't one of them say he was the worst manager he had ever since in all his time attending Hillsborough.I'm not particularly qualified at all but it only takes a little bit of research. (Something Alan Shearer should try :D) Feel free to check any of the information provided. (I did actually say they were in administration but they only had winding up proceedings brought against them :-[)
I think the Magath situation shows that a great CV doesn't mean your the right person for a certain club.
I wasn't for once suggesting that was the process the board adopted, I was challenging your argument not the process of the board, asking you what your criteria would be (unless you and the board are one and the same??). They way it came across was that from your post was that past failure or 'averageness' can almost be disregarded in considering future potential.Do not disagree with anything here. Football is an emotional and passionate game which sometimes needs to be put in a different perspective.
What I would expect the board to have done prior to this appointment is to review the recruitment, due diligence and interview process that has resulted in three of the last for head coaches being deemed not good enough by the board within their first two seasons. From that I would hope that they have a more robust system to try and minimise a repeat. Of course I am not privy to the board so have no way of knowing whether or not that took place.
Unless our big plan is to continually have a revolving door of head coaches it is fact that we have a 75% failure rate on current form when it comes to head coach recruitment. Thus I think that the fans who live of emotion are entitled to question the decisions of those making judgements based on facts.
Again I am not privy to the boards of Preston nor Sheffield Wednesday so the following is conjecture not fact - but goes to show how crazy this game is we all support. I would suggest the boards expectation at Preston was to challenge for a play off position (given they had finshed 4,5,7 for the three seasons prior to Irvine's appointment and that he was ultimately dismissed when 8 points of a play off place in December!). I would suggest the boards expectations at Sheff Wed on appointment was to avoid relgation (even is that was a misguided expecation due to how the club was being run - who knows we weren't there). Thus by scoring two goals on the last day of 2009 season he met that expectation getting into the play-offs by virtue of 1 extra goal scored and by failing to score 1 more goal on last day of 2010 he came up short of those expectations and was relegated. The fact that history shows he is the last manager to have reached the championship play off fors Preston and the only manager in the last 30 years to have relegated sheff wed to division 1 in the last 30 years will undoubtedly strengthen fans perspectives over time. What a difference 2 goals make.
However I think not even the most positive of supporters or professionals within the game can give a compelling argument that he has significantly over achieved anywhere in his managerial career. And therein lies the problem in my opinion. If Alan Irvine had been appointed by a board with a successful track record in appointing managers/head coaches then maybe the fans would have a bit more faith and give a lot more time to somebody without that 'success' tick on their cv. However, when a board who so regularly feel they have got their appointment wrong (in let's face it arguably our most successful period in recent history) appoint a manager whose track record of achievement is determined by one goal either way on the final day of the season is bound to cause a lot of uneasiness with the fans.
I expect AI will be given time, and I hope against all hope the board have got it right this time - but on the evidence above I like most fans can only with any confidence live n hope more than expectation. The start of the season has done little to boost that confidence, and only served to strengthen those people who feel they have justification to doubt. Of course the board can't change the fact that in appointing a head coach without a 'success' tick on his cv they offered fans no barometer in which to think this appointment would end up different to three out of the last four. And as such it should be no surprise that the voice of the fans will get louder and louder and the patience of the fans will get less and less with every week that passes when we don't see the potential of achieving minimum expectation (which I assume is to avoid relegation.)
Do not disagree with anything here. Football is an emotional and passionate game which sometimes needs to be put in a different perspective.
To put coaches ??? into context, JP has appointed 6 (not including caretakers) since his aarrival as chairman over 10 years ago and dismissed only 4 of these. In the modern game a fairly small turnover when compared to clubs of similar status. . The suggestions that he is worried about "saving face" however do not ring true, sacking Pepe Mel after 4 months was hardly him being worrying about seeing to make mistakes.
I make it 7, in 12 years but let's not split hairs ;) It's interesting that 3 of those 4 have been in the last 4 years whilst we have been continuously in the premiership. We had only four permanent managers from Peace taking over in June 2002 in the 8 'yo-yo' years yet since di matteo's sacking 3 1/2 years ago we are now on our 4th manager. I accept over his 12 years JP has not been prolific in pulling the trigger, just recent history that is of more concern to me.It is 7 :-[
From the outside looking I feel a different sort of head coach is needed to play premiership survival game season in season out, than that of riding the promotion wave from the championship. It's like we have been scratching around trying to find exactly who that sort of head coach is without really ever getting close to the answer (apart from RH maybe).
During my lifetime I have managed to make lots of friends from different parts of the country with a wide range of football allegiances. At the moment, they are all united by their hysteria at our current situation. Can hardly blame them - it's a shambles and has been for over a year.
I think JP would sack Irvine without a second thought and wouldn't care about the fans backlash either. Lets face it, the decision to sack Mel was FAR more controversial than if he sacked Irvine at some point.there wouldn't be a fans backlash. he would be praised by the majority if the poll is anything to go by.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-albion-finally-injury-7795376
There's a lot if encouraging words in this article, particularly the final paragraph where Irvine mentions how he is happy players have played out of position but now wants everybody playing where they want to play. Squad declared "injury free" although he does have a line where he stresses that injury-free doesn't necessarily mean match fit.
Much more promising but a few possible undertones of lowering our hopes of seeing all the new faces. All I ask is for Sess/Blanco in the middle and a new winger on the right with Gamboa and Leacott in at the back. Please do it Alan and prove us all wrong. Don't persist with the same team and if you really want to make us happy then drop the entire back line minus poco!
Didn't he say the same last week and then put the same team as normal out?
Didn't he say the same last week and then put the same team as normal out?
big game for him on sunday starting with his team selection
We've said the same since day one of the season ;D
big game for him on sunday starting with his team selectionBig piece in Mail about how we finally have everyone available, but if you read in full Irvine makes a statement along the lines of ' People need to understand there's a difference between not being injured and being fit to play'
Big piece in Mail about how we finally have everyone available, but if you read in full Irvine makes a statement along the lines of ' People need to understand there's a difference between not being injured and being fit to play'Sounds like he might be justifying not selecting the new boys in advance. If so and we see the same old dross, then he will have proved he has no guts and will have burnt all bridges as far as I am concerned.
So why are they not getting match fit in the reserves then
there wouldn't be a fans backlash. he would be praised by the majority if the poll is anything to go by.How can he be praised for correcting something he should never have done in the first place!
OUCH Atmosphere against Burnley if we get battered.I really do expect at least a draw with a performance against Spurs
I'm not expecting anything but a loss but what I do want to see is a bit of energy, a bit of spirit, a bit of imagination, a bit of movement and bit of forward thinking. If we can get that I can forgive a defeat.
I'm not expecting anything but a loss but what I do want to see is a bit of energy, a bit of spirit, a bit of imagination, a bit of movement and bit of forward thinking. If we can get that I can forgive a defeat.
I'm not expecting anything but a loss but what I do want to see is a bit of energy, a bit of spirit, a bit of imagination, a bit of movement and bit of forward thinking. If we can get that I can forgive a defeat.
See Irvine is spouting the same old rubbish at this afternoons presser. "Everyones fit"...... (good good go on al).....but lets not expect too much from some of the players as they are STILL behind the rest.....and so on. Doh!!......and you were doing so well Al. But not to worry im sure they'll all stay fit for the rest of the season and we'll have 40 points by February.
Couldn't be to keep the THFC team guessing then?
Wishful thinking?
Couldn't be to keep the THFC team guessing then?
To be fair reserves do not have regular games anymore and its under 21's which means only the keeper and I think 3 maximum outfield players are allowed.
I like the comment about players will be able to play where they want after being played out of position, well realistically its only Dorrans and Berahino who have been played out of position, the rest are all in natural postions.
Should it not be "I am now able to pick players in the positions that I think they are best suited to"? What he said reads like the players make the decisions as to where they want to play, rather than the head coach, don't you think?
I keep reading how poor Everton were but that's because we made them look poor, Irvine's tactics were spot on. As long as we cut the mistakes out and add some much needed creativity and quality to our attacking play which the new signings may bring then we're looking good.
I keep reading how poor Everton were but that's because we made them look poor, Irvine's tactics were spot on. As long as we cut the mistakes out and add some much needed creativity and quality to our attacking play which the new signings may bring then we're looking good.
I've looked at his Sheffield Wednesday results before getting sacked, it included one win in eight games in League one and a 5-1 defeat to Exeter and 4-0 defeat to Leyton Orient. The season before in The Championship when he got them relegated he won 1 of the last 10 games. He got sacked from Preston with 1 win in 8 games. So basically when a team goes on a bad run he hasn't got a clue how to stop it. I'm sure he's a good coach and I'm sure he works well with academy players so he would have been a great appointment for the U21 team but as Head Coach it's an abysmal appointment. His style of football is awful too.Please please please explain what exactly it is that has made you change your mind so dramatically between June 15th and now. I completely agreed with your initial assessment, but genuinely puzzled by your change of heart.
I keep reading how poor Everton were but that's because we made them look poor, Irvine's tactics were spot on. As long as we cut the mistakes out and add some much needed creativity and quality to our attacking play which the new signings may bring then we're looking good.
I've heard it all now. If you hadn't acquired mod status I'd almost think you were trolling. We were comfortably beaten two nil at home and you suggest our head coach got his tactics spot on. Pull the other one.
Should it not be "I am now able to pick players in the positions that I think they are best suited to"? What he said reads like the players make the decisions as to where they want to play, rather than the head coach, don't you think?Over analysis probably of a throw away statement. Players will play where they are told but ultimately if it is where they feel most comfortable it is more likely they will perform better.
Please please please explain what exactly it is that has made you change your mind so dramatically between June 15th and now. I completely agreed with your initial assessment, but genuinely puzzled by your change of heart.
A nation-wide hysteria? Am I reading that correctly? :D
Please please please explain what exactly it is that has made you change your mind so dramatically between June 15th and now. I completely agreed with your initial assessment, but genuinely puzzled by your change of heart.
As long as we cut the mistakes out and add some much needed creativity and quality to our attacking play which the new signings may bring then we're looking good.Say it quickly ;)
My concern is his reaction to periods within a game, I actually think his sides look organised but theres no movement or impetus when the game develops.
Not sure why you feel the need to bring up Legends previous post twice within a few days & ask the same question, is he not allowed to change his mind? have you never changed your mind or opinion?Obviously I have, and I wasn't being critical, just interested in the reasons why. If asking twice has caused anyone any offence, then I give my humble apologies
Obviously I have, and I wasn't being critical, just interested in the reasons why. If asking twice has caused anyone any offence, then I give my humble apologies
Fully fit squad. Then he has no excuses then A poor performance and he's hanging on with his finger nails.He said there were no injuries, but he also said that being injury free does not mean match fit.
If they were good reasons, yes, I'm not so arrogant that I think I'm always right. Like everyone else here, there's nothing I would like more than for it all to suddenly turn around, we start playing attractive football, picking up a few points and climbing up the table. I just haven't seen any evidence of it yet, and frankly I don't think I will. That's my opinion. If I end up being wrong, I'll hold my hands up and will be very happy to do so, as it will mean we are improving, and that's all any of us want to see.
I'm in exactly the same camp bud. I'm just dreading another limp and dour performance with no real intent to take the initiative.......oh balls, blah blah blah I'm boring myself and probably others too! We all know what's going to be 'served up ' at Spurs so why do we even bother?!
Never felt more desperate about the Albion. This feels - strangely - worse than our League One days, weird....wait till 1.50pm on Sunday when we are 2-0 down ....
This bloke is way out of his depth in this league, bring Pepe Mel back.With the support Irvine has had Mel would have thrivedYou would say that, but there is no guarantees that he would have sorted the back line out
This bloke is way out of his depth in this league, bring Pepe Mel back.With the support Irvine has had Mel would have thrivedyes should have kept mel and cleared the decks straight after last season finished; too many old hands are in the comfort zone reading the papers this morning doesnt bode well on team selection i fear the worst get yacob back in asap :(
You would say that, but there is no guarantees that he would have sorted the back line out
This bloke is way out of his depth in this league, bring Pepe Mel back.With the support Irvine has had Mel would have thrived
Problem is who comes in to replace him!
Pulis would keep us up, but we'd probably end off gauging our eyes out watching his hoof ball!
Problem is who comes in to replace him!
Pulis would keep us up, but we'd probably end off gauging our eyes out watching his hoof ball!
Problem is who comes in to replace him!
Pulis would keep us up, but we'd probably end off gauging our eyes out watching his hoof ball!
A squad that is "injury free" but the new players are still not "match fit"? Banging on about "mini pre-seasons"? Praising Brunt and Morrison? This guys interviews are laughable.How about you wait until tomorrow until you see what actually happens? Could easily be praising Morrison and Brunt for their professionalism during an injury crisis knowing that their positions are under threat and whilst receiving hostility from their own supporters.
He will continue to pick the same clowns every week without fail. Get this clueless tit out now for the love of god.
Dorrans, Morrison and Brunt in midfield is what we got promted with!
Where is the progression?
Problem is who comes in to replace him!
Pulis would keep us up, but we'd probably end off gauging our eyes out watching his hoof ball!
For me a top head coach is important.Why dont we spend some money on bringing in the best available.We just spent 10 million on a striker why not the same on a leader of men on the touchline
Dorrans, Morrison and Brunt in midfield is what we got promted with!
Where is the progression?
Brunt and Morrison were already Premier League players.
Nice one Irvine bottom of the pile >:(:-[
:-[
Season doesn't finish after 4 games. He is now getting grief on days we don't have games.
He never stood a chance when 95% Albion fans didnt welcome the appointment at all
C'mon Dev thats totally incorrect.............85.9% top of the page
:-[
Season doesn't finish after 4 games. He is now getting grief on days we don't have games.
Cant rememeber but did we at any stage hit rock bottom at all last season
So, if we were to win tomorrow and go up to 14th (I am not expecting it to happen by the way, not a reflection on Irvine but an assessment of Tottenham) should we give him manager of the month?
Just seen he has been biggin up Tottenham saying how creative they are and are a threat going forward ( can't see a manager saying that about us this season!) So looks like he will be goin for the 0-0 and see us loose 3-0 :PIrvine thinks a 0-0 is a positive.
True, but do you REALLY think we have what it takes to dig ourselves out of this position with Irvine and The Dingle running the show? Blimey....
I have found myself eying up the Chumps table to see what we are going to be doing next season. And also who we might be selling come May.
"The Dingle" had a big part in keeping us up last season.
"The Dingle" had a big part in keeping us up last season.
I'll kick Bishop Brennan up the ar$e if Father Ted pulls that one off.
Well we are bottom of the table now after today's results. If we beat Spurs tomorrow I'm sure all will look right with the world but if we don't (which i don't think we will) that Burnley game looks massive even so early in the season.
"The Dingle" had a big part in keeping us up last season.
So we hit rock bottom so early on the season...........I was really hoping we might get our act together despite the AI appointment and things might 'click'.
They still MIGHT but I wonder when it will be before we climb out of the bottom three as I expect nothing tomorrow and, with all the pressure on the must win Burnley game, I'm dreading next week...
We are bottom and there to stay in my opinion. Ill happily have a bet with anyone that we wont win a game while irvines in charge.no takers on your offer then, i wonder why.
We are bottom and there to stay in my opinion. Ill happily have a bet with anyone that we wont win a game while irvines in charge.
I'll take the bet, £10 to the winners chosen charity
You'll need to set some ground rules following the debacle of people not understanding the Oxford result.
The game we drew 1-1 for all historical records and in this case more importantly for betting purposes.
Keep him as assistant manager but wouldn't mind pardew after all that's happening at Newcastle or pulis
You wouldn't want Pardew if you read the Pardew out website!That website is absolute drivel and could make Mourinho look awful. On the 'bad performances' section it notes a 0-1 loss to West Ham in 2011 and it also says how in 2012 he went 7 games without a win. It's nit-picking at its finest and only selects the worst results/news to show.
That website is absolute drivel and could make Mourinho look awful. On the 'bad performances' section it notes a 0-1 loss to West Ham in 2011 and it also says how in 2012 he went 7 games without a win. It's nit-picking at its finest and only selects the worst results/news to show.But aren't the Newcastle fans the best judges? :-X
It conveniently forgets how he's had to sell his best players consistently, their top 6 finish and the budget he's working on. 4 years in a Premiership job these days is no mistake - I understand people don't like his personality but he shouldn't be judged on that.
Pepe Mel and his attacking mindset got us over the line along with the uplifting of the supporters who again was down to Pepe Mel who tried to beat the opposition at a game of football, nowt to do with anyone else.We have been going down hill for nearly 2 years and guess whos still there coachingSo, I need to get this straight in my head. Did Pepe Mel have control of the squad and coaches or not?
But aren't the Newcastle fans the best judges? :-X
But aren't the Newcastle fans the best judges? :-X
What we need to see from Irvine today is some proof that he knows what he's doing - a plan to win a game of football; the ability to motive this squad and something positive from even a defeat. We have seen little so far that he can do this.
How will the club and JP make themselves look if we get rid of a manager after 5 prem games - and how will that look to prospective replacement managers ?
If after 12 - 14 games we still haven't won and there's no sign of us picking up, then that's the first time he's going to be in serious danger.
How will the club and JP make themselves look if we get rid of a manager after 5 prem games - and how will that look to prospective replacement managers ?
If after 12 - 14 games we still haven't won and there's no sign of us picking up, then that's the first time he's going to be in serious danger.
The Pardew out campaign has about 200 supporters worldwide!! And that came from the bloke who organised it. A complete and utter numbskull. True NUFC fans must have cringed with embarrassment.
There will be hundreds of Managers/Coaches out there that would give their left arm to take the reins of a Premier League club.
How will the club and JP make themselves look if we get rid of a manager after 5 prem games - and how will that look to prospective replacement managers ?
If after 12 - 14 games we still haven't won and there's no sign of us picking up, then that's the first time he's going to be in serious danger.
Thing is, Irvine wasn't appointed on the day of the Sunderland game, he had been our "head coach" for two months prior to this and has now been "in charge" for over three months. In this time we as supporters have had five real occasions to assess how well the man is doing his job in the form of competitive matches.But can you honestly see JP getting shot of him after 5 prem games ? No chance.
In his time here you would have atleast expected him to have put some sort of stamp on a side which was pretty much clueless tactically and lacking any identity for the whole season prior. For him to be doing a good job we would be picking up positive results and as a bare minimum we would be displaying some sort of positive attacking threat against sides like Sunderland and especially Oxford for Christ's sake. The worrying thing is there hasn't even been a glimmer of a positive performance or result in the five chances he has had to show the work he has done in his new job. And don't even get me started on his interviews.
He could be given all the time in the world but the guy patently isn't going to do the business, the longer we stick with him the deeper we will sink into the abyss.
There will be hundreds of Managers/Coaches out there that would give their left arm to take the reins of a Premier League club.I'm not so sure while Irvine is a disaster for us the bigger problem is the man at the top
I'm not so sure while Irvine is a disaster for us the bigger problem is the man at the top
We are only going to get coaches of a similar standing to that of AI while Peace's system is in place.
"JP's system" is just a continental approach, as done by the vast majority of Europe's top clubs. So it's not the set up that's the issue. Anyone unwilling to work as part of the team and only willing to be a top dog dictator is someone I wouldn't want here. The big Sam type manager is dying for a reason.It is a continental approach but it's a very cheap version! and it will affect the quality of coach we are able to attract.
But can you honestly see JP getting shot of him after 5 prem games ? No chance.
We are bottom and there to stay in my opinion. Ill happily have a bet with anyone that we wont win a game while irvines in charge.
Didn't even manage 24 hours. :) Would love to be your bookie ;)
Congratulations to Alan on his first Albion win. One result and performance doesnt convince me he is the right man but more performances like that and he'll win over us.
Still want him gone, that result just delays the inevitable.
Delighted at 3 points.
Mostly delighted for fans - we've been waiting a bloody long time.
Still not convinced by AI. Lescott made a big difference. Still do not see AI being long-term solution.
One result does not make him the right person for the job. I'll stick to my Irvine Out guns.Personally I'd say it's been quite across the board. Two quite good (Sunderland and today), two quite Bad (Swansea and Everton) and Southampton middle of the road. I don't think we could call it either way, really.
Personally I'd say it's been quite across the board. Two quite good (Sunderland and today), two quite Bad (Swansea and Everton) and Southampton middle of the road. I don't think we could call it either way, really.
Let me be the first to eat my share of humble pie. In an earlier post I referred to Irvine as a buffoon, well it is clear that, today at least, that title should be bestowed on yours truly.
Never been happier to have egg on my face.
I still think there's mass complacency at WBA. I think this result came off the back of the hounding, jeering and buffeting from the fans last week. It looks like this needs to be done regularly to keep the players on their toes. I still say we lack natural leadership on the training ground and on the pitch. If we take Burnley lightly they'll beat us simple as that.Burnley have to be seeing this as a MUST win, Dyche will have them fired up, I imagine its going to be a physical game, they ain't going to be as "lightweight" as spuds were today. We should be playing with Mulla / Yacob axis IMO
I still think there's mass complacency at WBA. I think this result came off the back of the hounding, jeering and buffeting from the fans last week. It looks like this needs to be done regularly to keep the players on their toes. I still say we lack natural leadership on the training ground and on the pitch. If we take Burnley lightly they'll beat us simple as that.Keep trying to justify the negativity :-[
I'll take the bet, £10 to the winners chosen charity
Easilly pleases arent you, it's one result. What about the other games in the season?Of course I am easily pleased; Albion win, I'm happy, simple.
Of course I am easily pleased; Albion win, I'm happy, simple.
Perhaps, the difference is I want us to succeed more than I want Irvine to fail. If this turns out to be a false dawn then the majority of us will have been correct. I would rather be wrong and this is in fact the turning point in our season.
Time will tell, but today I am happy.
Well said 8), today we are winners & we celebrate accordingly, next week......who knows, maybe, just maybe people may give AI a bit of a break now.Absolutely, for the first time this season we can approach a game with optimism.
Personally I'd say it's been quite across the board. Two quite good (Sunderland and today), two quite Bad (Swansea and Everton) and Southampton middle of the road. I don't think we could call it either way, really.
You are a very reasonable fan and applaud you for it.
Who's the main reason Lescott is here?
His wife apparently as she refused to move to Turkey according to reports.
Excellent win today and I applaud Irvine for having the balls to drop Olsson and play Berahino as a striker. I still have my doubts over whether he is the man for the job and will not be getting carried away with one result but its as platform to build and upto Irvine now to prove doubters like myself wrong. Either way I will be here home and away whether its with Irvine or without.
How was the atmosphere today mate ?, sounded good on the stream and very supportive.
And so the fickle comments start.
We edged a 1-0 win against a poor Spurs team today. Wasn't a bad performance, but still have such a long way to go, and no matter if we stay up, I still don't want AI in charge. I don't like that Albion took a gamble with a terrible manager, giving him his first taste of top league football in a season that's pretty much make or break - the cheap option.
We just need to wait for the comments about how wonderful Brunt is because he took the corner which produced the goal, after being booed off last week and receiving criticism for a couple of seasons.
And so the fickle comments start.
We edged a 1-0 win against a poor Spurs team today. Wasn't a bad performance, but still have such a long way to go, and no matter if we stay up, I still don't want AI in charge. I don't like that Albion took a gamble with a terrible manager, giving him his first taste of top league football in a season that's pretty much make or break - the cheap option.
We just need to wait for the comments about how wonderful Brunt is because he took the corner which produced the goal, after being booed off last week and receiving criticism for a couple of seasons.
Spurs are a very good team, we made them look poor. It was an excellent performance.
He could easily grow on me if we batter Burnley and contiue to improve. Well done Alan Irvine keep it upA nice one goal victory will do me fine. Burnley haven't really been anyone's battering boys yet since their opener against Chelsea.
The majority of posters said that they did not want or rate Irvine, but, that he was now the head coach, they hoped he would do well, the early signs were not good, poor results, poor performances and negative set ups, but, most reasonable fans hope for improvement, yesterday we got it, lets hope its a sign of an overall improvement, results.says it all for me spot on,
If Irvine can get us playing half decent football with decent results, he will win the fans over.
A nice one goal victory will do me fine. Burnley haven't really been anyone's battering boys yet since their opener against Chelsea.
Agree with this, Burnley are a well organised team and will give us a very tough game.
We dont want another Everton peformance though
It makes me wonder what some people class as 'good football'?
We haven't played a flowing passing game for a few years really and you are probably looking back at Mowbray's time in charge which ended up been a dreadful Premier league season.
Good football to me is simply winning games. People are demanding Irvine plays a form of 'good football' but brush under the carpet the fact we have not actually played good football for a few years now.
Hodgson's brand was the best for me in our PL days. Solid at the back and well organised through the team. Then we had the players to threaten up front and create chances in midfield. In fact yesterdays win was very much a Hodgson like performance.
How do you set up to beat organisation?
Ans:- being unpredictable and doing the unexpected,
Who can be unredictable (in a positive way) for us?
Ans:- Sess, Samaras? Gamboa?
But so can the other team? Steve Bruce , c'mon
Also being unpredictable can be (in a negative way)? I don't get your point !
I feel it's good we have a mid week cup game to field some of those (unfit players) and prove their worth. We can always bring on our match winners later (whom always seem to do it when subs) to give them a chance to gel with others whom are not part of the league starting 11.
Nobody will admit to it but I still think there's certain people on here who would genuinely prefer us to go down this season than finish 10th just so they can moan and say they told us so.Any Albion fan who wants us to lose to prove a point is not an Albion fan.
5 games
1 x very good performances against Spurs
1 x 'did a job/decent result' v Southampton
1 x Decent performance v Sunderland
2 x poor against Everton and Swansea
Spurs and Everton will both be top 7 this season, Saints and Swansea both probably top 10 and 2 of the most in form sides right now. I know if you lose there's a way to lose but even with the 5 goals conceded in the Everton and Swansea games at least 4 were individual errors and not something you can really account for unless they start to happen every week. But judging the season as a whole so far it's not been the disaster some of made and we should continue to get stronger for the next 4/6 week as players come back in to the side and new partnerships gel.
Yes AI wasn't my choice as manager, and not even in my top 10 choices as manager but he needs to be given a chance which sadly is something it seems many people are not prepared to do. I have no doubt even if we finished 8th this season many would still refuse to credit him and would insist that's where we should be with the players we have.
I'm still far from convinced he is the right man for us but unless we lose the next 6 on the spin without scoring the guy needs at least until November before anyone can start to form any reasoned opinion that isn't based on pre conceived opinions on him that wont change no matter what he does. You can't slate him when we lose and then refuse to give him any credit when we win, especially when it's a result like yesterdays.
I was very upset after Everton like most but were his tactics not the same for Swansea, Everton and Spurs with the difference being Lescott, players learning to stay tighter and to break quicker. Yesterday reminded me of the best performances we've had in the past few years i.e. soak up other teams possession, then break quickly. I think tactically he's set us up ok overall. However, like Steve Clarke, he needs to understand at home, we expect to attack teams not play counter attacking which has not worked under Clarke, Mel or Irvine. The Hawthorns is where we need to go for it in the first 20mins.
Let's see what he can do without quite so much scrutiny and with his best players available.......?
Id like to see us put in more professional performances like the one dished up at Spurs.
Everyone keeps saying "one swallow doesn't make a summer" and that is very true, but it may (will) make your night ;) !
Blonde goes into a bar and asks the barman for a double Entendre.
So he gave her one.
at the start of the season it would have been reasonable to expect
home to Sunderland and everton 4 points from a win and a draw
away to ston swansea and spurs - should get a draw from either southhampton or swansea but unlikley to get anything from Spurs.
so 5 or 6 points - we're on 5 but just in a different way. Its OK I think
We HAVE to beat Burnley to get our season properly underway. That table will look very different next week if we are on 8 points.
I'm not getting carried away with the spurs result. We know AI is a defensive coach and sets up his team's to be compact. It worked this weekend and it was a good performance and result. What we need to see is how he reacts when that game plan goes out of the window as it has done in the previous games. Can he make changes? So far he has shown he cannot. I can see Irvines approach working away from home but he needs to show more ambition at The Hawthorns.No subs within the 90 minutes is an interesting stat really, was he scared to change it in case it went wrong?
The worst part about the Everton game was not that we lost, it was how we lost. The fact we didn't create anything, the subs needed to be made sooner, that's were AI got the most criticism from.Tough one re subs on Sunday. If he had made the change you suggest and we had conceded he would have got ruined! To this end I think he was a bit scared to change it, which is scary in itself. He talks about making difficult decisions with regard to starters, but he also has to make tough decisions in play.
The spurs result was a good result but spurs were having an off day, He needs to get the team to be consistent, the work rate of the team on sunday was much better than against Everton, but it should be like that all the time.
Im pleased Lescott and Dawson appear to have struck a partnership in defence, hopefully Dawson can push on now.
I though Morrisions distribution through the game was good but feel we need either yacob or mulumbu to give us the physical edge. If were playing sess its got to be mulumbu as he is a threat going forward too. If we need to see a game out I would expect yacob to come on for sess to firm up the midfield.
Lets see how we get on with burnley and lets the team sheet, and if hes willing to make subs. Even though we won against spurs after we went a goal up we maybe should have sacrificed sess have used yacob or mulumbu to see the game out.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvine-prepared-for-tough-calls-1934789.aspx
Great chance for him to take the bull by the horns, and if he is a man of his word it looks like there could be some minor shake ups regarding players pulling their weight etc.
I hope the players have the 'balls' to respond positively.
I was reasonably impressed by his decision to drop Olsson and Ideye on Sunday.
Olsson is one of the group of players some like to make out are running the show when things aren't going well for us. It would have been easy to keep Ideye in the side as our record signing but he chose to stick with Berahino who quite frankly deserves the place ahead of any other striker based on performances so far this season.
On paper at least when we have a fully fit squad there is decent competition for places.
Also it was good to see us with a solid performance and a solid win without Mulumbu in the team. Mulumbu, I feel, hasn't really been at his best for a good while now and he, like Olsson, has had too easy a ride for too long. Hopefully Mulumbu will get a notch sharper now.
A spell on the sidelines should hopefully work wonders for Jonas. He needs his fire back.
Can I just say a massive 'fair play' to AI.
Has come through the criticism and the last 2 performances have been excellent. It needs to continue.
Played some good stuff today, he needs to realise that Yacob needs to start, he is such a top quality player
We did okay again tonight, BUT his substitutes got him out of jail (they were good substitutions as someone has said so credit for that). We were poor for most of the 2nd half and he was on a hiding to nothing having said he was taking it seriously only to make 11 changes.But we went through winning? Not much more that can be done. ???
Sunday is the key.
hope this cup run doesn't affect our league form
We did okay again tonight, BUT his substitutes got him out of jail (they were good substitutions as someone has said so credit for that). We were poor for most of the 2nd half and he was on a hiding to nothing having said he was taking it seriously only to make 11 changes.I think this is a massive positive, he has been criticised, and rightly so, for his substitutions this season, but last night got it spot on. We looked pedestrian in the 2nd half with the players resigned to getting beat, he bought on Berahino and Varela and changed the pace of the game. Good on him.
Sunday is the key.
I think this is a massive positive, he has been criticised, and rightly so, for his substitutions this season, but last night got it spot on. We looked pedestrian in the 2nd half with the players resigned to getting beat, he bought on Berahino and Varela and changed the pace of the game. Good on him.
Hull also made changes, but we were the better side overall, which suggests we have the edge when it comes to squad depth.
I have been very critical of Irvine and am far from convinced that he can take us to the next level, but, credit where it's due he is addressing a lot of the issues I and many others had following the first few games.
More of the same on Sunday please.
hope this cup run doesn't affect our league formI do not get this. If you are referring to tiredness it should not be an issue. Firstly it was a completely different team. Secondly it is only a 38 match league season these days and Bournemouth will only be our 3rd cup match. The only chance they could take their eye off the league is if they got to the semi or final.
Regardless of the team that was out there last night, it was a very good win and the spirit around the club will have been lifted higher.
It's all more credit in the bank for AI.
The Burnley game is the big one to watch now. We simply have to win this one.
I was not initially pleased with the Irvine appointment, and I noted that on the forum. However, I would note there are some signs that Irvine does have some tactical ability and is starting to understand how to best orgainse the players. At Spurs having a really tight and narrow midfield which did not allow them to play the game they would like. In the cup yesterday the timing of the subs he had choice over was worth noting and turned the match.I'd agree with most of that. I want to see the effort level that we had at Spurs repeated for a series of games. We can expect Burnley to be very hard working and committed and we need to match them on that front.
Also note that we now have some really good players in depth which Mel and Clarke did not. Maybe (and I remain cautious), we have been a little hasty. Agree that Sunday's match will be important in indicating this?
If we match Burnley on effort, we will have more quality and with good "game management" should be ok.
Don't match the effort and quality & game management will count for nowt.
That is the the nature of the premier league.
Zero complacency please lads.
As someone who was not happy with his appointment, to be fair to him he is growing into the job. I believe someone said we had eleven changes from the Spurs game and got a good result. Shows a good strength in depth.
just relieved we've actually won a couple of games. jury is still out. but looking very much better than it did a week ago.
next four games:
Burnley
Liverpool
Man Utd
Crystal Palace
6 pts min
Two wins on the trot and in the last 16 of the Cup. Really pleased with the job Irvine is doing so far.
If we match Burnley on effort, we will have more quality and with good "game management" should be ok.
Don't match the effort and quality & game management will count for nowt.
That is the the nature of the premier league.
Zero complacency please lads.
just relieved we've actually won a couple of games. jury is still out. but looking very much better than it did a week ago.
next four games:
Burnley
Liverpool
Man Utd
Crystal Palace
6 pts min
All hard games in the Premier League ask Spurs they just played the bottom club... :D
But seriously we ought to take 6 points off Burnley and Palace, both 'Pool and United are not playing up to their best if we play our fastest forwards their back fours are susceptible to a bit of speed, then who knows we just might roll them over too, we have beaten both in the recent past and have a better side now.
I find it funny that a couple of wins and suddenly there's no problem. We had 5 inept performances before that, and IMO the jury is still out.
I find it funny that a couple of wins and suddenly there's no problem. We had 5 inept performances before that, and IMO the jury is still out.
What five were they then? I hope that's not including the good draw against Southampton who have started excellent and a draw against Sunderland where we were clapped off the pitch at full time.
The result at Southampton might have been a good one, but the performance was lacking. We certainly didn't create much, and seemed to care more about stopping them than doing anything ourselves.
And you and I obviously have different memories of the Sunderland game. I can remember some boos, and some terrible defending which earned them.
'We should win 3-0'
'anything other than a win is totally unacceptable'
'5 previous inept performances'
Who on earth do some of you think are because all you sound like are a bunch of villa fans, it's cringeworthy reading!
After his success at Spurs and progression in the cup some of you are really clutching at straws finding things to say and bait him with.
We played well against Sunderland and were unlucky not to win, we did a job at soton where most other teams have been getting destroyed and we could have easily won with the two chances ideye had. Swansea and Everton were awful then a superb performance at Spurs and a good result against hull.
I didn't want Irvine and the book is very very much out against him but to start saying ridiculous things just to make him look poor is out of order, I think at the start of the season most people would have been content with 5 pints and 4th round of the cup with a winnable quarter.
We have a chance to win three in a week, about as many as super pepe mel won in 5 months how about enjoy it instead of looking for things to have a go at AI with
Good post Lee.
While I have noticed some fans who were hyper critical of AI up to the Spurs game now suggesting we should give him more time, there are still those clinging to the hope he fails, as you say some of the comments are cringeworthy & I keep reading how todays game is 'the big test' for Irvine.......... personally I think going away & winning at Spurs (deservedly) was 'a big test' getting through to the next round of the cup against Prem opposition was 'a big test', for me Burnley is 'the next test' Liverpool will be 'the next test' after that & so on & so on, the sooner fans get used to the fact that Alan Irvine is our head coach & IS doing a decent job, the better.
Credit to Kiely and Downing who are still pulling the strings apparently.
Credit to Kiely and Downing who are still pulling the strings apparently.Where have you heard that? (Out of interest- I'm not doubting it).
Does Irvine owe you money or something?
Where have you heard that? (Out of interest- I'm not doubting it).
Good post Lee.
While I have noticed some fans who were hyper critical of AI up to the Spurs game now suggesting we should give him more time, there are still those clinging to the hope he fails, as you say some of the comments are cringeworthy & I keep reading how todays game is 'the big test' for Irvine.......... personally I think going away & winning at Spurs (deservedly) was 'a big test' getting through to the next round of the cup against Prem opposition was 'a big test', for me Burnley is 'the next test' Liverpool will be 'the next test' after that & so on & so on, the sooner fans get used to the fact that Alan Irvine is our head coach & IS doing a decent job, the better.
Credit to Kiely and Downing who are still pulling the strings apparently.:-X It's quite incredible the power they have to run things while the manager does nothing.
Fair play to Irvine, still not sure how he got the job and never will but 3 wins in a week and an excellent performance today is the best way to go about sticking two fingers up to the doubters like myself.
I'll reserve judgement on AI until before that horror run in come April. If we are safe by then he will deserve every bit of credit but until then I am sceptical.
Fair play to the bloke, had an excellent week. Maybe he will prove many of us wrong after all?
Although those members saying "I told you so" or similar are just as cringeworthy as those slagging him off.
Dropping Mulumbu, Yacob, Ollson and Mcaully was a big decision and it has paid off so full marks for doing that. Freezing Ollson out of the team for costing us two games shows his no mug when players form is off.
Also really pleased to see the youth players being given a chance and flourishing in the first team which is no easy feat again full marks for pulling that off.
The players seem to responding really well to him and improving each game.
Fair play to Irvine, still not sure how he got the job and never will but 3 wins in a week and an excellent performance today is the best way to go about sticking two fingers up to the doubters like myself.
And today we have seen the people who are hating the fact he is actually doing ok.
And today we have seen the people who are hating the fact he is actually doing ok. The bloke has done as well as anyone would have hoped for before the season started. Thumbs up from me Irvine so far! Dont think you will ever win some people over though whatever happens.
Dare I say it? I slightly warmed to AI just after watching his goal celebrations on MOTD. ;D
For me the positive thing is that we have so far had 3 clean sheets out of 6. That's a massive plus because if you don't concede you can't lose. He seems to have instilled a mentality into the players and a system that has taken me back to Roy Hodgsons days of being tight and compact. Ball retention and one touch football was excellent albeit against a poor team but you can only beat what is in front of you. In his interview he said he was happy with most things but there was a spell we were a little sloppy and for me that means he may appear task master and strives to continuos improvement - no bad thing . The signs are looking a lot better than at the beginning of the season.
I'm not going to criticize if he happens to introduce an extra defensive midfielder ( to start with anyway) next weekend at Liverpool. But tye longer the games goes on with us (hopefully ) level, the motre I would like to see us have a go.
Watching on TV gives you a real insight into how he wants his team to play and the spirit in the squad, you could see players geeing each other up, there was a lot of fist pumping especially coming from Lescott, Poco and Gardner and everytime we won the ball back you could here AI shout hold it, especially in our defence. Can't remember many aimless lumped up balls from our centre backs in the last couple of Prem games
It seems a happier and more together squad. Credit to the bloke for that.
Could this be because Olsson hasn't been playing?
What i noticed after watching the game aswell was the delight in the team mates when we scored.
For Dawsons goal, Him and Lescott shared a 'firm' hug and Wisdom was celebrating with Berahino for his 3rd like they had won the world cup.
Seems to be a togetherness in the squad.
Everyone from the manager to the goal scorer celebration!! Was great to see Irvine celebrate our goals the way he didHope we take the game to Liverpool too. We are the form team whereas they have had a ropey start plus their last action was to pick Jagielka's worldy out of the net.
Seeing as so many people are slowly changing their view on the appointment of AI would it be possible to allow them to change their vote on the poll above?The time to change your vote is once you see how he handles our usual winter slump
Seeing as so many people are slowly changing their view on the appointment of AI would it be possible to allow them to change their vote on the poll above?
Think we all had severe doubts when he was appointed, mainly down to his record at Preston and Sheff Weds. No disrespect to those clubs but the depth of talent that we have in our squad now has to be levels above the Preston and Sheff Weds squads of 4 or 5 years ago. If your main strength is coaching and tactics it must make a big difference when players can put plans into action and there are options available in the squad.
Seeing as so many people are slowly changing their view on the appointment of AI would it be possible to allow them to change their vote on the poll above?
I attempted to point out on a couple of occasions that his record wasn't that bad, but it didn't change anyone's mind.
All this egg on face and humble pie stuff is boring the life out of me.
It is still far too early to be judging Irvine as a success or failure. Some of those saying they are been proved wrong by Irvine are the same people who said I told you so after the Everton defeat. Those people are your typical modern day football fans - impatient and fickle.
This isn't an attack on our support as a whole I just don't agree with the views of a minority and the way they come to these views.
The atmosphere was great in the stadium yesterday, keep backing the team like that and we have won half the battle.
It wasn't exactly stand out either.
However these are early days and even if AI has passed the first few hurdles there are many more to come that will test him.
I think this is the third time someone has responded with this. Yes, I know. I never said it was.He will be judged on performance as any manager is. At the time this poll was set up the team were performing poorly, if it were taken now the results would be different that is the nature and beauty of football, it changes very quickly. We are all fickle to some extent, we have to be to truly enjoy the ups and downs. If common sense prevailed all the time it would be a boring old game ;)
From the day he was hired, I've contended that he should be judged the same as any other head coach/manager: by his performance over an appropriate number of games. He should not start out with the presumption that he is all the terrible things our fans said about him before a ball had been kicked.
Seeing as so many people are slowly changing their view on the appointment of AI would it be possible to allow them to change their vote on the poll above?
We were told that Alan Irvine was highly regarded in nearly all corners of the footballing world ( not sure whether I believed that) but there are some things beginning to shine through that makes that info more and more likely to be spot on......if he wins all the fans over it will be one of footballs biggest battles well and truly won.
How many on here now look forward to big games like Liverpool away, believing we can get a positive result instead of dreading a hammering, I know I do.
My feet have been very much planted in the 'lets get behind Irvine' camp from day 1 & I'm obviously delighted with the way things are beginning to take shape but I'd like to dispel a couple of miths that I keep reading, firstly it wasn't a masterstroke to play the now 'transformed' Craig Dawson in every game this season, the fact that McAuley had no pre-season made it a simple choice to play CD (I know Wisdom is an option) & its only been the last couple of games alongside Lescott where people are starting to purr about him (long may it continue).
Secondly, I keep reading it was a good decision to 'drop' Mulumbu, well YM was injured for the Everton game but prior to that I'd say he was our most consistent player but following the display from the midfield that played against Spurs it would have been criminal to bring Mulumbu back in V Burnley.
The thing that strikes me about AI is he seems to have excellent man management skills with the way he has treated some of the old established players, like not bringing them straight back in after a good team performance without them, this for me is an extremely important part of running any team, whether that be in football or work in general but 'tactical genius'? No (not yet) but keep winning match's & you'll have us all (well most of us) convinced.
Whats he doing encouraging the sale to a big club of Berahino :o
He's not though is he? The article headline is a misrepresentation of what he said. What he's actually saying us that if clubs come sniffing, then Albion will have a decision to make, as they do frequently when other teams come calling for our players.
Typical of the Mirror.
Whats he doing encouraging the sale to a big club of Berahino :ostating the obvious... 90% of the article is encouraging Saido to be the best he can be, then he says if there's interest then its up to the club whether they sell. He actually points out that we have held onto players despite (not very public) interest.
Irvine is paid by Albion and he should keep transfer policy regarding our hottest prospect in years close to his
chest. By all means praise the lad but that's were it should have stopped, now it's out there and the speculation will start and it could get to him bad call Alan
No reason to say what he did at all he even could have said even if big clubs come sniffing he's going nowhere
Totally agree, thats why i bought the subject up. just keep your gob shut, we dont want any attention just yet
Another club shows interest the players head goes
I was in the AI wrong appointment camp and to be honest that still hasnt changed, that said I am chuffed he has the team working like a team and the myths about him not playing with width were dispelled when we played Burnley. We were controlled and played passing intelligent simple football which surprised me (and a few others I may add).More Internet myth with no basis in fact. I am not sure what criteria you have used to judge the "two clowns" behind him and I assume that you are referring to Downing and Kiely as opposed to Kelly who he brought with him as assistant deputy head coach?
Looking at the appointment and history of past appointments I still dont know how he got the job and I personally wish him the best as I want my team to do well. I would prefer him to have his own backroom staff because when it goes wrong he will be the one left holding the baby! I still say the 2 clowns behind him should go to enable him to take his chance, he now knows the players and place, now he is here he should have all the tolls in his box to do the job!
After rolling over for a poor Liverpool team and Liverpool performance he needs a result from the Man U game and I truly believe he will get one
I agree with Devon as far as the Anfield result goes. We sat off them and got our bellies tickled by an out of form side.
Irvine has proved a few people wrong to some extent with the 3 wins but for me it is still his intent that is concerning. The only way we will get anything Monday is by having a go. Trying to contain will see us picked off easily.
14/1 for Irvine to be next Premier League casualty. Good value that is IMO.
https://m.oddschecker.com/t#football-english-premier-league-next-manager-to-leave-post (https://m.oddschecker.com/t#football-english-premier-league-next-manager-to-leave-post)
Cracking value for the bookies as they spend your money on their holidays. Harry Redknapp, Gus Poyet, Paul Lambert, are all (currently) more likely to go before Irvine.
14/1 for Irvine to be next Premier League casualty. Good value that is IMO.
https://m.oddschecker.com/t#football-english-premier-league-next-manager-to-leave-post (https://m.oddschecker.com/t#football-english-premier-league-next-manager-to-leave-post)
I agree with Devon as far as the Anfield result goes. We sat off them and got our bellies tickled by an out of form side.
Irvine has proved a few people wrong to some extent with the 3 wins but for me it is still his intent that is concerning. The only way we will get anything Monday is by having a go. Trying to contain will see us picked off easily.
The other side of the coin is that if we have a go on Monday night then we'll get picked off on the break with the likes of Di Maria, Van Persie and Falcao waiting to pounce. It's not about having a go or containment, its about striking the right balance and I think that is something we have found in our past four or five matches. I'm expecting a defeat tomorrow, of that there is no question, but I'll be very happy if we can put out a performance where at the end we say "we gave as good as we got". If that happens then I'll have no complaints.
We are the home we need to show them no fear, respect yes.
Foster the back 4 & Mulumbu should be enough to defend our goal, 5 flair players to control the midfield & score its here where AI will show is mindset
We are the home we need to show them no fear, respect yes.
Foster the back 4 & Mulumbu should be enough to defend our goal, 5 flair players to control the midfield & score its here where AI will show us his mindset on the game.
Seriously?
It's really naive people think we should go out to actually go all out attack against that Man U side. We'd lose - heavily. The way to play Man United is to contain them and hit them on the counter attack. If you go toe to toe with them, they'll breeze past us.
Irvine really can't win if fans expect him to go all out attacking against an attack of that quality. No manager would ever do that. Most of Leicester's goals against them were on the counter attack. Though we don't have the luxury of playing them with mass injuries and they've improved somewhat since the start of the season and no longer look like dropping points easily.
We'll probably lose tomorrow and people will blame Irvine for being cautious but no one else would play it any different. Look how Mourinho plays when he comes up against a team with a much better attack than his. Look how Real Madrid played Bayern Munich in the champions league last season. You might win plaudits going all out attack with flair players against significantly better teams but you won't win many points.
If their front 3 turn it on (RVP, Falcao, Di Maria) turn it on then hardly any keeper or defence in Europe cwould be ok. I think tomorrow depends on how they play, if they dont perform we have a chance if they do I cant see us geting anything.
Seriously?
It's really naive people think we should go out to actually go all out attack against that Man U side. We'd lose - heavily. The way to play Man United is to contain them and hit them on the counter attack. If you go toe to toe with them, they'll breeze past us.
Irvine really can't win if fans expect him to go all out attacking against an attack of that quality. No manager would ever do that. Most of Leicester's goals against them were on the counter attack. Though we don't have the luxury of playing them with mass injuries and they've improved somewhat since the start of the season and no longer look like dropping points easily.
We'll probably lose tomorrow and people will blame Irvine for being cautious but no one else would play it any different. Look how Mourinho plays when he comes up against a team with a much better attack than his. Look how Real Madrid played Bayern Munich in the champions league last season. You might win plaudits going all out attack with flair players against significantly better teams but you won't win many points.
Trade blows with a guy with bigger fists and you will lose. I love Albion having an attacking flair, but those who think we should storm them are too romantic and have not enough sense.
Attack Man U and we'll lose 6-2 or something like that, counter them and it may be 1-1 or something like that. Depends how you want to go really.
What was AI doing at the Stoke match yesterday with his former EVERTON boss.
What was AI doing at the Stoke match yesterday with his former EVERTON boss.I can't see a problem with this - we still have Stoke to play twice and Swansea once. He worked with Moyes so they sit together. I wonder if Moyes had any input into the appointment of Irvine.
What was AI doing at the Stoke match yesterday with his former EVERTON boss.Perhaps Irvine is looking for a new number 2? :D
What was AI doing at the Stoke match yesterday with his former EVERTON boss.
we played well until mulumbu came on, one day fans will see what a liability he is
Are you serious? Are you blaming him for their equaliser?well there was a question as to whether Mulumbu should have been closer to Blind and sensed the danger....but we don't know what his instructions were as far as positioning goes.
yes, could you not see how he upset the way we were playing, very bad sub by Irvine,
And Sess would have blocked Blind any better?
And Sess would have blocked Blind any better?
You're missing the point. Silver has taken the opportunity to moan about Mulumbu and get a dig in at Irvine at the same time.
A double whammy of moaning on a night when a multi-million pound team feels lucky to have scraped a draw against us.
Imagine how good we would be if our players weren't rubbish and our Head Coach had a clue. ;)
Bit of a fiery sole that silver throstle.
Let my heart rule my head last night, I was gutted we lost, that was how well I thought we played.
Obviously after sleeping on it, I am over the moon with the draw, would have bitten your hand off before the game for that result.
I really didn't want AI here, however he is proving all his critics wrong at the moment, I am well impressed with him, long may he keep it up.
He has transformed Dawson into a player of strength, he is immense, and dare I say it must be knocking on England's door, he is well and truly much better than Jones and Smalling put together, and that in no small way must be down to AI and Lescott.
AI has done something Van Galling can't, taken a new squad and is developing them into a team of players who are well disciplined and want to play for each other and the fans, well done that man.
Well done AI, keep it going, you are a real gem, hope I haven't put a curse on him now!!!!
Felt AI could have made subs earlier as the midfield was looking jaded.
But its a judgement call.
Set the team up well and we played the best football I've seen us play in years, especially in the first half.
Great point against a top side, who we matched in every way. We may not have their quality, but we certainly had more desire and a greater team spirit.I assume some of them will get a go in the cup match.
To be gutted with a draw says it all.
Personally I think we could have made subs earlier, but I think he likes to minimise disruption if we are doing well, which makes sense I suppose. Does mean that the fringe players are not getting any game time though, which could bite us when they are called upon.
Minor niggle though, in no way detracts from a great result and performance.
I thought it was an excellent performance tonight and I am warming to Alan Irvine. He has us playing some excellent football and we look well organised, with good shape. His coaching input is clearly working and he's getting a lot more out of players who struggled last season. The back 4 looks far more solid with Lescott leading it.There is no guarantee that we will now pick up points in the next 2 matches for 2 reasons.
The only thing that's bothering me is that none of our newly signed attacking players appear to be anywhere near the starting XI at present, and I'm not quite sure what to read into that.
Another 4 points minimum from Palace at home and Leicester away to make it 13 pts from 10 games and that would be a great foundation.
I for have changed my mind
me too :)
I think he's building a side, most of us thought he wouldn't be able to.Is he building a squad though? We are not using that many players, which gives great continuity, but does it give us depth?
Fair play to the bloke and long may it continue.
Is he building a squad though? We are not using that many players, which gives great continuity, but does it give us depth?
May turn out to be a master stroke when winter bites, but could go the other way if the replacements are off the pace.
Personally, I'm old fashioned and not a great fan of squad rotation, but I do wish some players were getting more game time by fully utilising the bench.
Am I the only one not seeing these 'great' performances?
Am I the only one not seeing these 'great' performances?
It's entirely an issue oif personal point of view. If you're from the era of us being in Europe and all that then maybe this isn't that great. But I'm from the era of losing to Grimbsy and Walsall and Port Vale giving us a hard time, so this is great as far as i'm concerned.Yes I agree to an extent but for a large part of last season we were going along at a point a match. It is very similar this season.
We utterly outplayed Man U for the opening 30 mins and at several points played some very good, pretty and productive football.
I am disapointed we lost the lead, but on balance it was a fair enough result. What I am very positive about is that we are "only" drawing against Man U and we're feeling let down by that to an extent.
We're not playing all attack total football, but if we did try it we'd be killed. We're beating Burnley (who were very poor) 4-0, then drawing 2-2 with Man U a few games later..... This is a huge improvement on last season's desperate fumble for the finish line.
Am I the only one not seeing these 'great' performances?
Yes I agree to an extent but for a large part of last season we were going along at a point a match. It is very similar this season.
I still can't say he's convincing me. We are playing well, but some of his decisions still baffle me. Yacob can't get near the team, Mulumbu seems welded to the bench, but we seem to be getting away with it at the minute.I think the reason is that AI wants us to be mobile and good in possession - which is fine by me. As is widely thought I think, Mulumbu isn't always the best at retaining possession and Yacob isn't the most mobile.
I still think we'll be nearer the bottom than we'd all like, but I think there are enough basket cases that we'll stay up easily enough.
I still can't say he's convincing me. We are playing well, but some of his decisions still baffle me. Yacob can't get near the team, Mulumbu seems welded to the bench, but we seem to be getting away with it at the minute.
I still think we'll be nearer the bottom than we'd all like, but I think there are enough basket cases that we'll stay up easily enough.
The great thing is the players believe in him and this is showing in the perfomances. People are fighting for the cause and not each other. Saido Berahino's game has gone up several notches under AI.
i think the fans should take most of the credit. the vitriol aimed at AI at the beginning has obviously created a siege mentality in the camp. they are all working together to prove most of us wrong ;D
He's certainly making me eat my words.I like to hold back and see.You never know in this game. Take QPR as an example? Took me by surprise as not know much about him.But I thought his coaching experience and the past up and downs with previous clubs could make him a fair fit.
Long may it continue!
its a bit too early for i told you so posts !!
Really, I saw plenty after the Everton & Swansea games
its a bit too early for i told you so posts !!
Too many from both sides on a weekly basis, not just one side.I completely disagree, the one side far outweighs the other.
I completely disagree, the one side far outweighs the other.
As for ‘it’s too early for the I told you so posts’, possibly it is, Alan Irvine’s tenure may or may not end up as being deemed as successful. However our recent form and improvement highlights how unreasonable and hysterical people we being after just 2/3 games.
What massive problems do we have?
I can't believe you're also making up excuses just to discredit our good performances and results.
What massive problems do we have?
I can't believe you're also making up excuses just to discredit our good performances and results.
You bit!
I really don't know where this is coming from. We still have massive problems at the Albion. We played well away at Spurs (who we caught on a bad day). We beat a virtual Championship side at home without it's two first choice strikers. We contained Liverpool without threatening and then lost anyway. And we just got absolutely hammered by a very poor Manchester United side but managed to come away with a point. Next 3 matches are huge.
Another comment I have seen that is bugging me people saying "without Berahino we'd be in trouble", "we're relying on Berahino".
No doubt if you had taken away Berahino's goals then we would be struggling but I do not buy into these comments. Berahino is a striker, his job is to score goals. The same token could apply to any one of the other 19 Premier League clubs. We're providing Berahino with the service and he's taking the chances.
I don't think there's anything lucky about that, personally.
We didn't nick anything against Tottenham. We deserved those three points. It was a complete away performance in my eyes. We controlled a lot of the ball, some of the best ball retention I've seen from an Albion side in years, we created chances and thankfully managed to grab a goal late on. Maybe the reason Spurs were poor was because our two centre halves got their head onto every Spurs cross, kicked everything that came away, and also our midfield pressing Spurs in possession forcing them into mistakes? The polar opposite to our performance at Swansea?
As for the United game on Monday - we started on the frontfoot by pressing them in possession and having a fast tempo about our play, we broke them down on several occasions, firstly the goal, secondly a cross that just missed Berahino and thirdly the second goal where a Brunt pass split them apart. I don't think United are a poor side either. They're a side going through transition but I wouldn't suggest a side which includes RvP, Juan Mata, Angel Di Maria and Falcao are poor.
I don't think we show the opposition to much respect either - earlier on in the season I would agree with your analysis that we have massive problems but they're being rectified. We're starting games on the frontfoot, we're tenacious in midfield, looking to press the opposition and furthermore we actually look like we know how to defend for the first time since Roy's era. There is a togetherness about this squad, there are some much needed fighting qualities being shown as well as some very encouraging signs when we have possession.
Another comment I have seen that is bugging me people saying "without Berahino we'd be in trouble", "we're relying on Berahino".
No doubt if you had taken away Berahino's goals then we would be struggling but I do not buy into these comments. Berahino is a striker, his job is to score goals. The same token could apply to any one of the other 19 Premier League clubs. We're providing Berahino with the service and he's taking the chances.
I don't think there's anything lucky about that, personally.
Our first goal came from a mistake from I think Rojas
Didn't mention luck. But it's a fact we're relying on him. He has scored more goals than all of his teammates combined.
And their first goal came a decision to award a dodgy corner and then Fellani pushed Lescott in the back and then their second goal came from a mistake from Lescott. We can both do that.
I never suggested you mentioned luck. Saido's role is to score goals and that is what he is currently doing.
I really don't know where this is coming from. We still have massive problems at the Albion. We played well away at Spurs (who we caught on a bad day). We beat a virtual Championship side at home without it's two first choice strikers. We contained Liverpool without threatening and then lost anyway. And we just got absolutely hammered by a very poor Manchester United side but managed to come away with a point. Next 3 matches are huge.
Massive problems! ;D
We had massive problems last season, we now have a TEAM compared to last season which was like a squad of individuals. The fact that you won't give us any credit for our results and performances so far is unbelievable to be honest but there you go. I suppose if we beat Palace on the weekend you'll find some way to discredit the performance and Irvine.
Liverpool finished second in the Premiership last season, Man United started with £200M+ of talent on the pitch (with 3 out of the top ten most expensive signings in Europe this summer) and brought on last season's 3rd most expensive player in the Premier League. We gave them both a game. Its not looking good. :-X
Liverpool finished second in the Premiership last season, Man United started with £200M+ of talent on the pitch (with 3 out of the top ten most expensive signings in Europe this summer) and brought on last season's 3rd most expensive player in the Premier League. We gave them both a game. Its not looking good. :-XTo quote REM,
To quote REM,
It's the end of the world as we know it... And I feel fine!
It's never an ideal situation if one player has more goals than the rest of the squad however you look at it. Ideally you want your top scorer to have roughly 50-60% as many goals as the rest of the squad. So If Berahino gets to 20 then the team has got to 55-60 goals, Berahino on 20 and the club on 35 goals sends you down.
To quote Martin Luther King Jr. Success, recognition, and conformity are the bywords of the modern world where everyone seems to crave the anesthetizing security of being identified with the majority.
Or even better Mr Charles Darwin. I am not apt to follow blindly the lead of other men
We didn't give Liverpool a game, they held us at arms length (and we allowed them to). You are choosing to ignore the fact that MANCHESTER UNITED fans don't rate their current side, reputations (price tags) mean nothing in this case.Because some Man United fans don't rate their current side does not actually make them a bad side ;) Although because they couldn't even beat little West Bromwich Albion clearly they are 8)
We didn't give Liverpool a game, they held us at arms length (and we allowed them to). You are choosing to ignore the fact that MANCHESTER UNITED fans don't rate their current side, reputations (price tags) mean nothing in this case.
I really don't know where this is coming from. We still have massive problems at the Albion. We played well away at Spurs (who we caught on a bad day). We beat a virtual Championship side at home without it's two first choice strikers. We contained Liverpool without threatening and then lost anyway. And we just got absolutely hammered by a very poor Manchester United side but managed to come away with a point. Next 3 matches are huge.
Best performance of the season according to Van Gaal.
Ay carumba...after we have won against Palace and Bournemouth, so no pressure - how about we rewrite the lyrics to The Clash's 'Should I Stay Or Should I Go?'
'Will you apologise or no?'
Ay carumba, you all want to live surrounded by seemingly billions of MU fans. (oh wait that could be anywhere).
The news here oop North just said how MU failed to win, told us who scored for them but ignored us completely.
I do disagree with anyone who felt MU were all over us. I was with a few impartial friends who will take the pee whenever they can but they thought we were fantastic, no bias there.
You can't deny our passion right now on the pitch.
So, to finally unite us all over Alan - obviously after we have won against Palace and Bournemouth, so no pressure - how about we rewrite the lyrics to The Clash's 'Should I Stay Or Should I Go?'
They had 63% possession, 22 shots and 11 corners to our none. I'd say they dominated the game entirely. Fortunately we managed to score at the right times.
It's never an ideal situation if one player has more goals than the rest of the squad however you look at it. Ideally you want your top scorer to have roughly 50-60% as many goals as the rest of the squad. So If Berahino gets to 20 then the team has got to 55-60 goals, Berahino on 20 and the club on 35 goals sends you down.We'd better start scoring from a couple of direct free kicks now and then, that would make a change. Maybe Saido had better take all those as well.
To quote Martin Luther King Jr. Success, recognition, and conformity are the bywords of the modern world where everyone seems to crave the anesthetizing security of being identified with the majority.
Or even better Mr Charles Darwin. I am not apt to follow blindly the lead of other men
Hope in years to come the irony of the "Alan F*ing Irvine" song is loved by us all.
It's more moronic then ironic, sung by immature pubescents who somehow think its 'banta', as someone who detest's the 'easily offended' culture within todays society, I can honestly say I am offended that our Head Coach is being abused by our OWN fans, there's no need for it, time to pick up the toys & move on.
Jekyll & Hyde so far
Needs to change his philosophy. There will come a time set pieces won't see us through against average sides. Wisdom Gardner and Dorrans should be the first casualties.Surely the consistently wrong side of mediocre Morrison should be dropped before either of these
Needs to change his philosophy. There will come a time set pieces won't see us through against average sides. Wisdom Gardner and Dorrans should be the first casualties.
Surely the consistently wrong side of mediocre Morrison should be dropped before either of these
Chose those two based on the positions they are playing. Mulumbu is better than Gardner. Dorrans is not a wide man and he's not as good centrally as MorrisonBut Morrison has been playing centrally, and he has been very poor in every match bar Burnley. Dorrans, I agree, is not ideally suited to wide right, but he has been doing better there than Morrison has centrally, so keeps his place for me. Gardner has been pretty decent in most games, so very harsh to drop him imo.
needs to remember we have 3 subs to use at any time.having Anichebe means we must have one spare at all times. :D
Chose those two based on the positions they are playing. Mulumbu is better than Gardner. Dorrans is not a wide man and he's not as good centrally as Morrisonyou do talk some rubbish, first the knives are in dorrans, and now it's
you do talk some rubbish, first the knives are in dorrans, and now it's
Gardner. But i see as usual your blue eyed boy escapes any criticism. Shocking.
Reported. Anyway, you do realise if a player is criticised it doesn't mean the knives are out for them... If you mean Brunt, aside from giving the ball away late in the first half when Pocognoli had gone past him he had a very good game. Another assist too. ;)
Reported what? :-[ someones opinion? whats that they say about kitchens & heat?
Bit of respect, if I told everyone on here they talk rubbish who I believe does I'd have sore fingers and be banned within a day.
Reported. Anyway, you do realise if a player is criticised it doesn't mean the knives are out for them... If you mean Brunt, aside from giving the ball away late in the first half when Pocognoli had gone past him he had a very good game. Another assist too. ;)so you can give it but not take it? Its a good job i don't
I recall Irvine wanting and eventually getting 2 new wide men during the transfer window but seems unwilling to use the one fully fit one available and it is questionable if he would have used Varela much if not injured. Add Gamboa to the equation of flair players added to the squad and it indicates that Irvine will continue with his conservative approach. If so what was the point signing players he seems reluctant to use?
Question for Mr Irvine: you are a goal down at home against a similar standard team to your own, 10 minutes left with a 10 million pound striker on the bench,if you are not going to use him in those circumstances just when are you going to use him!!?? >:( >:(
Not sure Mr Irvine reads this thread (not if he's got any sense) so I'll try to answer the question for him whilst slightly expanding the timeline, 2-0 down with 45 minutes left & I have a choice of a 10 million pound player or big Vic, pressure's on to put on the expensive investment or trust my tactical experience & go for more physicality, VA gets the nod & within minutes we're a goal back, 8 minutes left I again have a big decision to make & decide to go with Blanco, before the end of the game we equalise & get a draw out of a game that most would have settled for at half time.
I'm inclined to agree with this reply.
Brown Ideye will get his chance this season & it will be up to him to take it but his price tag should not dictate when he plays, to Irvine's credit he has had the testicles not to put old favourites & our most expensive player in the team if he felt it wasn't in the best interest's of the team.
Not sure Mr Irvine reads this thread (not if he's got any sense) so I'll try to answer the question for him whilst slightly expanding the timeline, 2-0 down with 45 minutes left & I have a choice of a 10 million pound player or big Vic, pressure's on to put on the expensive investment or trust my tactical experience & go for more physicality, VA gets the nod & within minutes we're a goal back, 8 minutes left I again have a big decision to make & decide to go with Blanco, before the end of the game we equalise & get a draw out of a game that most would have settled for at half time.So we have spent 10 million pounds on a player who in an ideal world (no loss of form injuries suspensions etc) is basically a reserve/cover player? Personally i dont think as a club we can afford that as the money or a part of it could have been used to sign first choices.
Brown Ideye will get his chance this season & it will be up to him to take it but his price tag should not dictate when he plays, to Irvine's credit he has had the testicles not to put old favourites & our most expensive player in the team if he felt it wasn't in the best interest's of the team.
So we have spent 10 million pounds on a player who in an ideal world (no loss of form injuries suspensions etc) is basically a reserve/cover player? Personally i dont think as a club we can afford that as the money or a part of it could have been used to sign first choices.
So we have spent 10 million pounds on a player who in an ideal world (no loss of form injuries suspensions etc) is basically a reserve/cover player? Personally i dont think as a club we can afford that as the money or a part of it could have been used to sign first choices.
Question for Mr Irvine: you are a goal down at home against a similar standard team to your own, 10 minutes left with a 10 million pound striker on the bench,if you are not going to use him in those circumstances just when are you going to use him!!?? >:( >:(
It seems to me that Irvine is never going to trust our flair players, apart from Sessegnon (and even he is obviously liable to get yanked off, even when an otherwise attacking substitution is made), so the best that the likes of Blanco and Varela can hope for looks to be 10-15 minutes as impact players. You can maybe see an argument for that against the top clubs, but I think we need to be more adventurous against teams who are not really any better than we are.
Also, as others have noted, our lack of width makes us rather one-dimensionsal and, hence, easier to defend against.
So we have spent 10 million pounds on a player who in an ideal world (no loss of form injuries suspensions etc) is basically a reserve/cover player? Personally i dont think as a club we can afford that as the money or a part of it could have been used to sign first choices.To Quote Myself:-
because he's quite similar to Saido, so that change isnt worth it and taking another midfielder off plays into Palace's counter-offensive hands
We equalised in the end so his subs were justified. Who would you have took off?Dorrans, very poor offered nothing! or if it was very late may have gambled and taken Wisdom off.
so you can give it but not take it? Its a good job i don't
report the things you put on here that i disagree with.
I disagree, that is what debate is about. I agree that countering an opinion with "thats rubbish" is not acceptable but like I am shooting down your opinion in this reply with reasoned examples of why it is rubbish ;) should be allowed. :-*
Football is a game of opinions - some have differing views, but they're entitled to be aired without being shot down.
I disagree, that is what debate is about. I agree that countering an opinion with "thats rubbish" is not acceptable but like I am shooting down your opinion in this reply with reasoned examples of why it is rubbish ;) should be allowed. :-*
Hope he's as pi$$ed off tonight as he was at half time on Saturday.
I'd much prefer it in future if our head coach came out and said 'I'm not going to take this competition seriously. I'm going to use it to give my second XI a run out so don't get your hopes up'.
That way, the fans would spend their £££.
Need a win on the weekend. No wins in 4 league games otherwise.
The fans would have travelled to Bournemouth tonight no matter what. The side was not far off what I expected to be picked and should have the quality to beat Bournemouth. What they didn't have tonight is the ambition or application, how many easy passes went astray from players with significant Premiership experience.
To be fair it was near enough a similar team to the one which beat Hull in the previous round. These players needed the game time and we simply have to give it them.
Those saying we should beat Bournmouth are forgetting that they are a team with huge momentum and confidence running through their side. They are 4th place in the Championship (2 points off the top), coming off the back of a huge win and playing at home against a side who have been very shaky all season so far.
The recent history of cup competitions should tell anyone that if you play a second string side, whoever the opposition, we could lose.
Those saying we should beat Bournmouth are forgetting that they are a team with huge momentum and confidence running through their side. They are 4th place in the Championship (2 points off the top), coming off the back of a huge win and playing at home against a side who have been very shaky all season so far.
The recent history of cup competitions should tell anyone that if you play a second string side, whoever the opposition, we could lose.
Those saying we should beat Bournmouth are forgetting that they are a team with huge momentum and confidence running through their side. They are 4th place in the Championship (2 points off the top), coming off the back of a huge win and playing at home against a side who have been very shaky all season so far.
The recent history of cup competitions should tell anyone that if you play a second string side, whoever the opposition, we could lose.
Had a few replies to my first post so will answer all in one post. I'm not excusing losing, it was rubbish, and after the game I felt it justified why I jacked in my season ticket at the end of last season to focus on other sporting interests.
People do however have to remember that if you play an entirely second string side, then it is akin to a pre season friendly as your side has no rhythm, no consistency and no experience of playing together. If you look at the history of the cups in recent years, particularly the league cup, then lots and lots of teams will get knocked out. Today is a good example where the best team in England, playing a strong side, struggled to beat a league 2 team (Chelsea beating Shrewsbiry with a goal in the final 15 minutes).
It is the psychology of football.
Got his excuses in early tonight our Alan, first team players a little bitlol, he always has excuses and I think his interviews are very predictable, i.e. before the game "Halesowen are a great team and I think they are well organised etc", so if we lose it looks ok, but if we win then it's great.
tired well use your bench better dickhead
lol, he always has excuses and I think his interviews are very predictable, i.e. before the game "Halesowen are a great team and I think they are well organised etc", so if we lose it looks ok, but if we win then it's great.didn't want him and still don't want him now. seen nothing to suggest it will be anything but a relegation battle all season and one I honestly think we will loose. I hope im wrong. the club has taken a huge gamble on his appointment which I still find baffling that we couldn't find a man with a better cv, after last seasons disaster a more experienced head coach was needed to bring a bit of stability to the team.i wish we had backed pepe mel at least it was exciting unlike watching that garbage tonight.
I still think the jury is somewhat out, if we can somehow win on Saturday then you can guarentee some people will be over the moon again - and if that was the case we'd be about 10th after 10 games, which to be fair is a good return.
Well another hour and I should be home. Can't say the it's only the league cup argument surprises me from the apologists. Defeat to Leicester on Saturday and I'd be looking for strong action from Peace. Irvine Out.
didn't want him and still don't want him now. seen nothing to suggest it will be anything but a relegation battle all season and one I honestly think we will loose. I hope im wrong. the club has taken a huge gamble on his appointment which I still find baffling that we couldn't find a man with a better cv, after last seasons disaster a more experienced head coach was needed to bring a bit of stability to the team.i wish we had backed pepe mel at least it was exciting unlike watching that garbage tonight.
Bournemouth made ten changes.Presumably Bournemouth have a smaller squad than ours so I'm guessing that their changes involved several academy players ? Any well organised club these days has a half decent academy.
Well another hour and I should be home. Can't say the it's only the league cup argument surprises me from the apologists. Defeat to Leicester on Saturday and I'd be looking for strong action from Peace. Irvine Out.It doesn't surprise me that it is the same old faces wanting blood after a defeat despite being 13th in the Premier League because all our points have been lucky and the seven teams below us are actually better than us. We also got into the final 16 of the league cup, something 12 of our Premier league rivals failed to do (and then admittedly were pants and beaten by the better side on the night)
Presumably Bournemouth have a smaller squad than ours so I'm guessing that their changes involved several academy players ? Any well organised club these days has a half decent academy.
If we had played 6 or 7 of our academy team, at least they will have been getting regular matches unlike the Browns Blancos Bairds Davidsons Gamboas McAuleys etc.
This is a real problem at prem clubs ... how do you keep 24 players involved and fit and ready for action ?
It doesn't surprise me that it is the same old faces wanting blood after a defeat despite being 13th in the Premier League because all our points have been lucky and the seven teams below us are actually better than us. We also got into the final 16 of the league cup, something 12 of our Premier league rivals failed to do (and then admittedly were pants and beaten by the better side on the night)
Apologists? Supporters.
Well another hour and I should be home. Can't say the it's only the league cup argument surprises me from the apologists. Defeat to Leicester on Saturday and I'd be looking for strong action from Peace. Irvine Out.You could argue that we have only had 2 bad performances in the prem this season (Swansea and Everton - Palace game was half bad).......we are 13th yet you want managerial blood to be shed ? Shall we bring in Cellino as chairman ?
Of the Premier League teams that played last night, Swansea kept 6 starters from the weekend, Chelsea 3, Liverpool 2. Will be interesting to see tonights teams.in fairness to Chelsea they played Sunday so only had 1 free day
You could argue that we have only had 2 bad performances in the prem this season (Swansea and Everton - Palace game was half bad).......we are 13th yet you want managerial blood to be shed ? Shall we bring in Cellino as chairman ?Good post.
You could argue that we have only had 2 bad performances in the prem this season (Swansea and Everton - Palace game was half bad).......we are 13th yet you want managerial blood to be shed ? Shall we bring in Cellino as chairman ?werent any good at Liverpool either. Teams such as Viler and Hull have gone to Anfield and not had too much trouble getting something out of the game. Converse t your argument how many good or very good performances have we put in!!
Yes bad appointment and I know you can argue he needs time. He's had 9 league games and 3 in cup and nothing has given me any belief in this man or his ideas. Through away 2 points at home first game and made negative subs that back fired. Away v Southampton never looked in danger yet never tried to win it and finally bought sessengon on in 88th minute. Swansea away our lack of width and pace was totally found out. Against Everton at home same super narrow one paced midfield were toally predictable.
Spurs away huge slice of luck! Against Burnley we were fortunate to score 2 from set pieces and they had to come out and we picked them off in second half. Prior to Dawson goal we hadn't worried them. Liverpool stuck with the same narrow midfield that relies on fullback support and Berahino getting goal from nowhere. Unlucky to lose but didn't deserve to win!
Man utd at home like our more successful away style sat back and scored 2 on counter attack. Didn't get fresh legs on and we were punished. V palace same narrow midfield, he said post game interview he knew big vic would be important so it's beggars belief he didn't start him.
As for the cup we have played the reserves 3 times, scraped past oxford with an own goal and penalty shoot out. Hull Saido magic and rare gmac volley! Tonight disaster! All 3 reserve games we played a midfield even more narrow flair less and one paced than the one he plays in league.
The man just doesn't have any idea how to break sides down. We aren't Barcelona we won't pass sides into submission and then pass it sessi to drive through and score a goal to cement his balon de or nomination. We have no width we rely on our fullbacks to create and our centre backs to do defence splitting passes.
Iv had enough of it
Are people really judging him on one game in the Carling cup or have we now ventured in to Satire?
werent any good at Liverpool either. Teams such as Viler and Hull have gone to Anfield and not had too much trouble getting something out of the game. Converse t your argument how many good or very good performances have we put in!!
What was lucky about the Spurs win? They hardly had any chances and we were the better team. Give credit when credit is due. You just seem to be looking for the negatives because you don't like Irvine.
I was waiting for the Irvine Out topics to hit this forum again
Here we go again :o
Top teams will drop points against teams in the bottom half of the table every season, doesn't mean we should expect something at Anfield, a game which we played well in and deserved a draw in my opinion (some disagree fair enough). I'd say we played well against Sunderland but obviously didn't win so some will be disappointed. We played well against Southampton who are currently second in the league, Ideye had two great chances to score for us. I thought we played well against Hull in the cup and deserved to go through. Played very well against Spurs and deserved the three points, the same against Burnley who had three clean sheets in row before playing us. We performed very well against a United team in a bit of form. We did well in the second half against Palace after a poor first half.
Sugar coat it however you like we have only played well once this season. Tottenham away.
Must admit I prefer your sugar coated version ;)
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvine-devastated-for-albion-fans-2047616.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvine-devastated-for-albion-fans-2047616.aspx)
Head coach has no regrets over personnel changes
ALAN Irvine admitted he was 'devastated' for the 2176 Albion fans who watched his side exit the Capital One Cup at Bournemouth.
The Baggies head coach made 10 changes to his side - as did Cherries counterpart Eddie Howe - but felt some players did not do enough to impress in the 2-1 defeat.
Irvine believes the game on the south coast was an ideal platform for some players to stake a place for Saturday's Barclays Premier League game at Leicester.
But not enough performed to the level expected of them.
"I was disappointed by the performances of some players," said Irvine.
"We did enough to get back into the game but we needed to do more to win the game.
"I'm absolutely devastated for the fans who travelled in great numbers. They deserved better than that.
"It was really poor on our part."
Asked whether he would understand the fans' frustrations about the selection, Irvine admitted that some of his Premier League regulars had told him they feeling the strain.
He added: "Some of the lads have indicated to me that they were feeling the effects...having gone Monday to Saturday, to then go Tuesday to Saturday was a risk when you've got very professional Premier League players telling you that they are feeling the effects.
"It would be foolish not to take notice."
He continued: "I have to look after the players who have played a lot. And I also have go to give players who were desperate to play a platform to impress.
"Some of the players did, but not enough of them.
"I don't regret the 10 changes."
I was waiting for the Irvine Out topics to hit this forum againPeople have their agendas and revel in it.
Here we go again :o
Aww the poor babies give them a flask warm blanket and get downing to read them a bedtime story so they can get some rest poor little tinkers, Makes you laugh really dont it different world almost would be running round for my club with one leg and one arm to try and help them get into the quarters of the cup.
I'd drop you in that condition ;)
Aww the poor babies give them a flask warm blanket and get downing to read them a bedtime story so they can get some rest poor little tinkers, Makes you laugh really dont it different world almost would be running round for my club with one leg and one arm to try and help them get into the quarters of the cup.
:D You would need to mate i wouldnt be telling the gaffer jack i would be to proud.
1st, the best reserve team won on the day by a country mile & best of luck in the next round.
Gutted that we are out of the cup but we were lucky to beat Hull when AI used the same tactics so im not surprised
A blind,deaf & dumb Dingle could gather that there midfield were killing us so what is AI 1st substitution, take off a striker & put on another.
Mulumbu (a top performer for us in the past) was a mile off the pace of the game, he gave away the ball constantly & looked liked he hadn't a care in the world, played a full game. :o
AI. You have a right to expect/believe that the team you fielded would at least put up a good performance but when they let you down you need to show them & the fans that you know how to put it right & thats were YOU let us down.
That is absolute nonsense.
Surely on the wind up.
It does seem that many of 'our' fans have their own agenda sometimes doesn't it?
The "I told you so" pie is such a sweeter taste then the humble one & they just cant wait to take the first bite, nobody will convince me that certain posters on here genuinely want AI (& by association West Brom) to fail.
I want to know how the 'I refuse to see what's happening in front of my eyes as it makes me seem reasonable' pie is tasting for you?
Whilst I will not go hysterical about the team selection I do agree that, personally, I would have made different substitutions to those that AI made but then I also don't have the information available to me that he has. I would have been looking to bring Gardner on for Mulumbu or Baird.
What info would that be?.
Gardener on for Mulumbu & Dorrans on for O'neill at half time for me.
What info would that be?.
Gardener on for Mulumbu & Dorrans on for O'neill at half time for me.
Who was in the squad :D (although most of us had that information)
What info would that be?.
Gardener on for Mulumbu & Dorrans on for O'neill at half time for me.
Dorrans wasn't in the squad.
I felt sorry for Irvine last night to be honest.
Those players let him down - of that there is no doubt. Every single one of them players is much better than they performed last night. The problem was Irvine created a rod for his own back with such an appalling team selection by starting a game which included three defensive midfielders who could offer no protection to an appalling back four and could not retain the ball to give Blanco, Ideye or Anichebe any service.
The baffling thing for me though in a game which was crying out for somebody like Craig Gardner or Chris Brunt we persisted with the same uninspiring, pathetic, flat, uninterested midfled and then brought Samaras on and shoved him so many different positions the poor lad didn't know whether he was coming or going. At one point we had a four man midfield that included Blanco, Mulumbu, Baird and O'Neill. A staggeringly poor midfield for an apparent Premier League side.
Irvine has now put the pressure on himself for Saturday - after last nights surrender with a weakened team and the first teamers rested, I will be expecting a bloody result on Saturday. If we lose, then they can all **** off for all I care.
Dorrans would probably have made the difference last night in place of Baird or O'Neill, he's been one of our best players this season.
If Dorrans plays in the Leicester game the only way he will find a West Brom player is if we quickly sell him to Leicester, he is rubbish, hard working...yes....passing the ball hopeless should never play for baggies again.
If Dorrans plays in the Leicester game the only way he will find a West Brom player is if we quickly sell him to Leicester, he is rubbish, hard working...yes....passing the ball hopeless should never play for baggies again.Totally unjustified, he is a great player and fully deserves his place, and will be back for the next game
Dorrans is the best central midfield player on our books but he is consistently played out of position to fit in Morrison who in my mind should not be in the side,
Get him back in the middle and lets see the player we were raving about not that many matches ago.
i keep saying it but the midfield is far to lightweight with him and Brunt in there.
Bournemouth made ten changes.
Totally unjustified, he is a great player and fully deserves his place, and will be back for the next game
I thought we had turned the corner after the Burnley game, last week we got lucky.Pressure is on againIt's never been off mate.
Leicester, Newcastle, Chelsea, Arsenal.... the next 4 games. If we don't pick up more than 3 points AI will be gone by end of November.
I don't think it will be that early - I'd say the December fixtures will be the key, we need 6 wins by the New Year or Jezza's trigger finger will be getting twitchyThat's 6 wins from 10 games, 5 of which are away and include Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City! Can't see it.
Think some people need to take a more balanced view. To many we are either 'flying' or 'in crisis' from 1 week to the next. 'If' we lose on Saturday we might be in a bit of trouble, but 'if' we win then we will be top 10. Either way everything will either be all ok again or everything will be lost (apart from the section of people who will only ever view anything Albion related through the most negative of viewpoints). We are 13th in the league which although boring would be a perfectly acceptable place for us to end the season, and with how we have started the season is around where I would expect us to finish.If it's unfair to expect 10 players to hit the ground running why pick them?
Re the Bournemouth game, I'm happy with the team he played to an extent. In recent years if we had fielded a second string 11 and lost I would of been fuming but there's not a huge difference now between our 1st and 2nd 11. However with our recent form and some good performances AI has stuck by the same 11 for the past 5 weeks meaning none of these players bar Dawson have played any sort of competitive football for over a month. AI also seems reluctant to make to many subs and if he does it's normally 1 or 2 in the last 10 mins so it's not like they are even getting the odd 30 mins here or there. So whilst I agree it was the right team to pick (if they don't play at Bournemouth then where do these players play?) and the performances given by the players were disappointing it's also unfair to expect 10 players who haven't played 1st team football for a month to come in and hit the ground running, even more so as with many of them new signings they have not played together as a team before (Hull aside)
As others have said to my mind there's definitely people on here who willingly want AI to fail no matter how much they will deny it. Comment such as the one on Dorrans above are plain embarrassing. Were all entitled to opinions blah blah blah but saying he should never play for us again is pathetic and shows nothing but an agenda.
Think some people need to take a more balanced view. To many we are either 'flying' or 'in crisis' from 1 week to the next.
If it's unfair to expect 10 players to hit the ground running why pick them?
Tuesday was wrong on so many levels, not only did it kill any momentum we built up from Saturday's comeback, it will have damaged the confidence of some of the fringe players and for what? We are out of the cup and learnt absolutely nothing about our squad.
You are right though, the reason they are not up to speed is in part down to the consistency of the 1st 11, but also down to AI's reluctance to use them from the bench.
He has to take responsibility on both of the above counts.
No-one on here wants him to fail, they just vent their frustrations and anger a bit. Better on an internet forum than the terraces.
Personally, I think he has shown enough on and off the field to at least merit a fair crack of the whip, but he has to be bold and go out to win games. We have proved that we are capable he just needs to instil the confidence in the players and not just the starting 11.
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If he played the same starting 11 against Bournemouth and Leicester that have been playing recently he would of been slated if we had lost to Leicester even if we had beat Bournemouth. He had to make the changes he made in my opinion for a few different reasons. The squad could of had more of a run out in previous games but I think circumstances and performances have dictated the teams we had put out and restricted the amount of game time for people not in the 11. Not everyone will agree but I think if you look on the pre match threads for the last 4/5 games the majority would of picked the same or at least very similar sides over the last month.
We don't need to apportion blame to someone every single time we lose a game. In our position we will lose more than we win and rushing on here to stick the boot in to that weeks latest scapegoat is tiresome and pointless. It's not necessarily someone's fault every time we lose. Unfortunately many have pre determined thoughts on who is to blame from the main offenders in Peace and Irvine to favourites such as Brunt with other like Morrison, Dorrans, Anichebe all coming in for over the top criticism in my opinion. Lose on Saturday and I can guarantee different posts will be blaming Peace, AI, Mcdonough, Clarke and 2/3 of the usual individual players plus whoever had a poor game that day (who will then be described as being poor for months/not good enough/over rated despite being perfectly fine to that point)
I still disagree people don't actively not want Irvine to fail. Despite what you might think about him as a manager (and I'm not a massive fan) he seems like a decent guy and deserves a chance at least, and from a large amount of fans he hasn't even been given that. Lets not forget there was talk of mass boycotts and a protest march before he even took charge of a game whilst others on here have said they wouldn't be renewing season tickets based on his appointment. We were booed off in his second home game of the season, and our chant for him is 'alan ******* irvine' (now sung ironically apparently).
None of the above means he will work out to be a success, but doesn't mean he is a failure already. Instead of swinging between contrasting emotions as a group of fans each match just judge him on our overall performance which has been fine. Nothing more and nothing less. 13th in the league & league cup 4th round, 1 or 2 very good performances, 1 or 2 very poor performances and the rest varying between ok and decent. It's a typical result in a typical season for a typical club of our size so why the extreme reactions either way to each result.
Think some people need to take a more balanced view. To many we are either 'flying' or 'in crisis' from 1 week to the next. 'If' we lose on Saturday we might be in a bit of trouble, but 'if' we win then we will be top 10. Either way everything will either be all ok again or everything will be lost (apart from the section of people who will only ever view anything Albion related through the most negative of viewpoints). We are 13th in the league which although boring would be a perfectly acceptable place for us to end the season, and with how we have started the season is around where I would expect us to finish.
Re the Bournemouth game, I'm happy with the team he played to an extent. In recent years if we had fielded a second string 11 and lost I would of been fuming but there's not a huge difference now between our 1st and 2nd 11. However with our recent form and some good performances AI has stuck by the same 11 for the past 5 weeks meaning none of these players bar Dawson have played any sort of competitive football for over a month. AI also seems reluctant to make to many subs and if he does it's normally 1 or 2 in the last 10 mins so it's not like they are even getting the odd 30 mins here or there. So whilst I agree it was the right team to pick (if they don't play at Bournemouth then where do these players play?) and the performances given by the players were disappointing it's also unfair to expect 10 players who haven't played 1st team football for a month to come in and hit the ground running, even more so as with many of them new signings they have not played together as a team before (Hull aside)
As others have said to my mind there's definitely people on here who willingly want AI to fail no matter how much they will deny it. Comment such as the one on Dorrans above are plain embarrassing. Were all entitled to opinions blah blah blah but saying he should never play for us again is pathetic and shows nothing but an agenda.
Good post.This is why it would have been better to integrate 2 or 3 into the current 1st 11 on Tuesday rather than changing everything. It would have given us more of an insight into how they fit the current formation and personnel, plus a better chance of actually winning the game.
I think Tuesday showed that there's a good case for squad rotation, it's difficult to see how you can rely solely on domestic cup competitions to give "fringe players" a game.
IMO one of AI's major problems so far has been getting the new arrivals fit, I think he's just about there now, so we could see more of the new players.
Today was a good result for him but it masks so many of his faults and this will hurt us in the long run.
Today was a good result for him but it masks so many of his faults and this will hurt us in the long run.
He seriously can't win. Talk about bias....
What exactly do we need to do for you to like him? Our reserves should have beaten Bourenmouth's. Once on the pitch you can't blame him for that. We're 10th with 13 points after 10 games. Do we need to be top 4 before some say he's doing ok?
Are we not on exactly the same games won, drawn & lost with a goal difference of 0 at this point in the season last year?Was one coming off the back of an eighth place finish and a relatively stable squad and the other following an almost disastrous season and a ripped apart squad? We might only be in the same place but to achieve that based on the position we were in at the end of last season is massive progress.
Just thought I'd raise this as it's not really progress! Although I think he is doing a fair job.
Not sure what our spend was last season compared to this!
Well I think AI's doing a great job, and as a few others have commented, it does at times feel as if we're back in the Hodgson era (which for me is very much a positive comment to make).
Sorry, but I don't buy this squad upheavel line. Only 5 players to make the squad yesterday were new additions and only three were in the starting line up! Hardly mass change is it. Plus the fact that we have Morrison, Brunt and Dorrans playing week in week out is shocking to be frank.
Sorry, but I don't buy this squad upheavel line. Only 5 players to make the squad yesterday were new additions and only three were in the starting line up! Hardly mass change is it. Plus the fact that we have Morrison, Brunt and Dorrans playing week in week out is shocking to be frank.While i see what your saying i do feel the arrival of players has increased competition for places , certainly Brunt and Dorrans have upped their game this season. Bournemouth was poor from our players pushing for a Premier start but overall i think the squad is healthier for the mass arrival of players.
Sorry, but I don't buy this squad upheavel line. Only 5 players to make the squad yesterday were new additions and only three were in the starting line up! Hardly mass change is it. Plus the fact that we have Morrison, Brunt and Dorrans playing week in week out is shocking to be frank.How many of the back four were regular starters for us last season? The key lynch pin in the middle of the park, where was he playing? Our main striker had how many starts? You may not buy this squad upheaval but it is real. Squad upheaval isn't just about the 11(eleven) players brought in but about the structure of the squad.
We're getting back to when we were at our best in the Premier League and that's when Hodgson was here. Under Hodgson we had many performances that were similar to yesterday's match. Irvine's doing a cracking job so far and long may it continue.
We're getting back to when we were at our best in the Premier League and that's when Hodgson was here. Under Hodgson we had many performances that were similar to yesterday's match. Irvine's doing a cracking job so far and long may it continue.
He's not a good manager, but maybe just maybe he's a lucky one. Well done today.Napoleon said "I have plenty of clever generals but just give me a lucky one". Well, there are plenty of clever managers but I would happily settle for a lucky one.
I wasn't at yesterday's game so won't comment on that but a few comments here are not reflecting the fact that have played some good football this season .... it's not been all dour by any means.
There are signs that AI wants us keeping the ball better. Dawson's introduction has helped as he does pass better than any of our other centre backs. Also Gardner and Morrison are better on the ball than Yacob and Mulumbu.
It would be nice to have a fit and firing Varela playing but we can only hope that happens sometime soon.
Several games under Hodgson were tedious in the extreme based around a solid back four and Mulumbu and Scharner in centre midfield.
I think AI is currently doing a good job.
My real hope is that AI has set out to
firstly, achieve the initial objective of a solid base which will keep us up, THEN
second objective of introducing some "style / class / flair".
If that proves to be the case brilliant, however, if we continue to see dour effective football I think we'll see a Big Sam / West Ham scenario.
Thus far, good job, need to continue with this and slowly introduce some style as and when its appropriate/ practical.
It's mind numbing to be honest. The Hodgson team was never as toothless though that was mainly down to Odemwingie. Also it didn't leak goals for fun at home.
So that was mainly down to Odemwingie and now people say this is down to Berahino. Are teams not allowed a star striker any more?
So that was mainly down to Odemwingie and now people say this is down to Berahino. Are teams not allowed a star striker any more?
Haven't heard Pepe Mel mentioned for ages on here (but he wasn't rubbish).
People need to get over the fact he's not had a great time with Sheffield Wednesday / Preston in the 3rd tier, at the end of the day the reality is is that he didn't have the resources he needed to succeed. A crock Neil Mellor isn't going win you anything.
There was that article a few weeks back also where he was explaining at Sheff Wed he had no scouts, so he'd do 7am till 5 or whatever at the "office" on the pitch etc, then drive 100+ miles to a 7:45 match, to watch a guy, then drive back and get home for 11:30 or something. That was a normal day for him and only 1 facet of what he had to do. No wonder it didn't work and it is a world apart from what he needs to do with us. The voices i'm interested in are people like Joleon, who sign for us because of AI and respect for his coaching.
Absolutely, I haven't seen the article but you can see AI doing that, the guy is a work horse. I am at this point in time pleased he has joined us. Tim Sherwood would have made us a laughing stock.
This was one of them
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2798605/alan-irvine-doesn-t-know-west-brom-players-earn-s-far-cry-scouting-conducting-contract-negotiations-sheffield-wednesday.html
But there were many on a theme for that day or so, not sure this was the article i read at the time. Sheerwood is a loud mouth self promoter. If Albion had signed him we'd be a world of trouble. People like him because he's "honest", but i don't really want the public face of our team being honest about the hundred little things that go on behind closed doors.
Many shouts from the massed crowd are one made of passion. Few of them are professional and passion gets you where Leeds, Bradford, Wolves, Brum etc etc etc are. Professional gets you 8th-15th in the Prem year on year on year (17th last time as we weren't very professional at certain points)
The half way point is where we will get a proper perspective of where we are as a team, when we have played every team once. If we lose the next 3 games (which is quite likely), we will have 13 points from 13 games and everything will look a little less rosy. Not yet convinced that Jacko's perceived negativity isn't in fact a realistic assessment and that a few reasonable results haven't clouded some people's judgementIt could all go pear shaped of course (always applies anyway) BUT it's not clouded judgement, it's looking at what you see and judging on that.
The half way point is where we will get a proper perspective of where we are as a team, when we have played every team once. If we lose the next 3 games (which is quite likely), we will have 13 points from 13 games and everything will look a little less rosy. Not yet convinced that Jacko's perceived negativity isn't in fact a realistic assessment and that a few reasonable results haven't clouded some people's judgementI would suggest that the negativity surrounding his appointment and the views of a number of Sheff Wednesday supporters have clouded some people's judgement. The open minded supporter who looks at the current position rather than lives in the past has to say that he is doing a good enough job based on results.
The half way point is where we will get a proper perspective of where we are as a team, when we have played every team once. If we lose the next 3 games (which is quite likely), we will have 13 points from 13 games and everything will look a little less rosy. Not yet convinced that Jacko's perceived negativity isn't in fact a realistic assessment and that a few reasonable results haven't clouded some people's judgementWhile I would say that we have three tough games coming four including west ham I also no how unpredictable the Albion can be we could easily get something from three of them games a win on Saturday would be mega a point would be satisfying, Dont think 40 points would see you relegated this season or even 38 points.
I would suggest that the negativity surrounding his appointment and the views of a number of Sheff Wednesday supporters have clouded some people's judgement. The open minded supporter who looks at the current position rather than lives in the past has to say that he is doing a good enough job based on results.I agree, it's time to move on now, he has done enough to warrant some backing.
after 10 games I fully expected us to be on the same points as Burnley, not Everton ManU and Newcastle.:o
it's been a great start to the season. far exceeding expectations.
i'm happy to say that AI and JP have proved me wrong so far.
let's take one game at a time and not worry if we lose the next 3
:oDid you expect us to beat Spurs then?
Really ? I wouldn't say so . I expected us to beat both Palace and Sunderland so think we should be 4 points better off by now
Did you expect us to beat Spurs then?
He's perfect for the head coach role. Credit to Rob Kelly and Keith Downing too who work together extremely well it seems.
Did you expect us to beat Spurs then?
Did you expect us to beat Spurs then?
Or draw with Man U, given their £150mill 3 pronged strikeforce?
Such a daft comment and a prime example of the negativity on here. Moan about stuff we "done wrong" and give no credit at all for the stuff we've done right.
I think these are the games that we have either done worse or better than I would have expected:
Sunderland - drew (2 points dropped)
Everton - Loss ( 1 point dropped)
Spurs - Won (2 points gained)
Palace - Drew (2 points dropped )
I'm slowly warming to AI, comes across quite well in interviews, compare him to the sweaty sock at vela and I know which one I prefer.
I think he's proved one point in so much that he does appear to be able to turn things round when we're in a rut.
We are, at this moment in time, exactly in the same position after 10 games that we were with Clarke in charge.
Traditionally we tend to go into a nose dive around this time of year, I think that will be a telling time and hopefully AI makes a better fist of it than Clarke did.
That's what I am wondering too. Irvine has a relatively stable team now, which is obviously why he keeps playing the same team week in week out, but what happens when players get injured, fatigued, suspended or lose form? Has Irvine done enough to integrate new players into his system? Can he change the system to adapt to the players at his disposal or will he demand that players adapt to the system, even if they might not really fit into it?
We are at the same point total as last year this time, but we have had the rub of the green in the last couple of games. When that goes against us, which it will, will we have enough to still keep picking up the points?
I believe there are worse teams than us in this division, but that doesn't make us a very strong team. Irvine has done ok so far, certainly he could have started far worse, and I do like that the (current) players seem to like playing for him and are comfortable with this setup. But I think we will have a bumpy ride this season like last year.
A thin squad, our usual November/December slump and a tough run in in the spring combined with unenterprising football. Hopefully we will be saved by some even worse teams again this year.
Games come thick and fast from late Nov to early Jan so it's inevitable that some injuries / suspensions or whatever will kick in. The problem for AI is making sure players are ready to slot in when the need is there.
This is a huge factor in giving people game time in the Capital One - if we just swapped 3 or 4 it means there are 5 or 6 who will not have played for an even longer period......should AI rotate the squad more in the prem ?
Viewing the Tony Brown tributes this week (which were superb and very enjoyable) it was interesting to hear the Bomber chatting about John Giles first season as Albion manager, and the fact that half way through that first season we were way off the pace and close to the relegation zone, only to turn it around and gain promotion back to the old First Division.agree with you Brummie (Tim? ). Problems of short term ism is caused by the radio as they try to provoke an outcry and thus phone calls.
As Tony Brown commented, the chances are that these days in the modern game he'd have been given the boot in similar circumstances by many clubs.
Being an old git I can recall those days, albeit as a youngster, and although we were all in a bit of awe of Giles who had a very high playing profile at that time, the football itself wasn't great for the first few months, and it was around 4 months until things really started to click into gear, but I don't recall people having much of a moan and everyone seemed patient and content to give the bloke time.
The only reason I'm commenting on this thread, is that on hearing those comments it struck me how entrenched the views of some Albion fans have been with AI virtually from day one. Thankfully it seems to be a dwindling number now, though as always we know that come the next defeat those who have no confidence in him will be out in force and at times it feels as if he's paying the price for having a low profile in the game, by Premiership standards, as much as anything else.
Appreciate the Giles era is a very long time ago, but for me, the principle of giving a new Coach time stands true and, talking generally rather than about the Albion, the short termism in football these days, when two or three consecutive defeats is considered a "disaster / disgrace" blah blah, has surely on many occasions been self defeating for many clubs.
agree with you Brummie (Tim? ). Problems of short term ism is caused by the radio as they try to provoke an outcry and thus phone calls.I wouldn't say he has necessarily worked out his best team yet but has identified a team that, for the most part, is working well and getting the results required. There are still players who haven't yet made it in to the first team who could, given a regular opportunity and Premier League experience, bring more to the table.
I wasn't keen on irvine at all and I am not won over (only 3 win for example) but he seems to have worked out best team and I am really hopeful Varela could be a stunning signing.
fingers crossed this weekend as we could conceivably lose the next 3 and that will cause panic!!
That's the thing, say for instance we won our next two and went about 6th. If we then lost our next three people would be wanting him sacked, the modern sacking frenzy is absolute madness. I think sometimes the people who want manager after manager sacked after losing a few games don't have too good of an understanding of football and because of this the only thing they can come up with for a loss is too sack the manager. They can't see the bigger picture
So in essence you are saying give Irvine time. I am prepared to give Irvine a chance now but hope we don't keep saying give him time should we go on a disastrous run and end up in the bottom 3 come Easter. What if we gave Bryan Robson indefinite time and still had him at the helm. Where would we be now?
Down the pub !
Met him yesterday, nice bloke hope he succeeds
This is where we really missed a trick in the cup by making too many changes. It made them all look rubbish, where they almost certainly are not. If we had integrated 2 or 3 into the current 11 it would have given us an idea of how we will cope with injuries etc., instead we got a bunch of strangers not having a clue how each other worked.You are right, but what if you get 2 injuries (say foster and Saido) just to go through in the cup , then drawr Chelsea away??
Who knows, we may even have gone into the hat.
You are right, but what if you get 2 injuries (say foster and Saido) just to go through in the cup , then drawr Chelsea away??
Im not saying i dont want us to go for it but sometimes its not as simple as it looks??
Steve Clarke no.2,horrible.
I have been quiet for the last few weeks letting things plod along, but after today nothing has changed my opinion and I'm still convinced we aren't good enough on the pitch or off it and we will still be going down.
Team and tactics completely wrong today.
When you're being out-thought by Alan Pardew then you know you're in trouble.
By the way, if our team every play hoof ball like that again, then they should be ashamed of themselves. That is not the Albion way.
I've been saying that for some time now...today was an exact replica.
Head in the sand same old set up, get 2 goals down and chuck on anybody he thinks might get us a goal....amateur coaches handle sides better than that.
I'm happy with the job he's doing and to be 13th in the league at this stage is good. I was really bored watching us today but I have also seen some encouraging stuff so far this season. I really want to see our team have proper wingers with pace like Swansea have with Routledge and Dyer. I hope once Varela gets back he can make a difference to our play which is a bit predictable. The style of play is very Hodgson like which I'll be happy with if it means we finish comfortable in the Premier League. We are still a good team who will have bad days like today a few times this season but I really think we'll finish nearer top ten than bottom three.What on earth have you seen from Irvine that makes you think we're going to see that? You're going to be very disappointed.
It is the Irvine way though.
Anybody who thinks we are ok is living in cuckoo land . No width , no midfield and totally boring at home . Our only saving grace may be that there is 3 worse teams than us at the end of the season. Why do we keep buying poor players who can't get in the team.
hand on heart and totally honest does anyone think it will ever get better than this, I hope it does but just cannot see anything to suggest it will. the last 3 games have been very poor displays, not pantwetting just looks so unbalanced and drab, nothing to excite the fans at all.
How do we know that they are all poor, hardly seen any of them playing for us in the premier league . I dont think irvine know how to use a good attacking creative player.
hand on heart and totally honest does anyone think it will ever get better than this, I hope it does but just cannot see anything to suggest it will. the last 3 games have been very poor displays, not pantwetting just looks so unbalanced and drab, nothing to excite the fans at all.
My hope is we can get a few kids to break into the team like Saido did and lift the level of football. What is certain is that we will not get better football as long as we employ negative coaches who don't think we can play better football.Trouble is the way we play suits the old guard of the team who seem very vocal and threw their toys out of the pram when Mel asked them to up their game last season............
Trouble is the way we play suits the old guard of the team who seem very vocal and threw their toys out of the pram when Mel asked them to up their game last season............
There is very little imagination to our play which is very concerning and that's now three poor performances on the bounce - we somehow managed to win at Leicester via some fluke of an own goal.
When Anichebe plays we are far too predictable. Our tactics basically consist of our midfield or back four chipping the ball into him, letting him hold it up and then making a few sideways passes before we lose the ball. Then we do it again, and again and then on the next occasion Anichebe will try and roll a centre half. I've taken it for granted now that whenever he plays we will do absolutely nothing else but what I've outlined above.
Plenty of sideways passing between the midfield and back four but at the end of the day lacking in penetration to cause sides problems.
Give him time FFS!!
The only thing Irvine will do with more time is give us more of the same nonsense.
We are eleven games into the new season and are we any better football wise than last season. Answer NO
Well lets recognise what he has done which are so far the main positives of his reign. We are extremely organised, have a much better defensive spine about the team and seemingly have a good spirit in the camp and all three were needed after the farse of last season. Yes, there are glaring deficiences within the side, the football certainly hasn't been as entertaining as many would have liked but there have been some promising signs only in very small pockets.
The conundrum for Irvine is whether he can get the side to play some more 'easy on the eye' football with penetration and still maintain the defensively solidity that he has brought to the club this season. I have no problem with losing football matches but there is a manner in which we lose them and its day like today where I find losing hard to take because we've been beaten, at home, so comfortably and we've barely laid a finger on the opposition. If Irvine can get us trading blows with the opposition then whilst I won't like losing, I can certainly say we'd have given it a good go, especially at home where accumlating points is paramount. Unfortunately, Irvine is struggling in this department.
Unfortunately at the moment we seem to have a solid defensive foundation but are certainly lacking going forward.
Are we better defensively? The Burnley game aside we've shipped 2 goals in every other home game.
What on earth have you seen from Irvine that makes you think we're going to see that? You're going to be very disappointed.
The only thing Irvine will do with more time is give us more of the same nonsense.
Well some predicted we'd stay in the bottom three after the Everton game but we then shot up the table. We only have Varela who's that type of winger so once he's back we'll see if Irvine plays him or not.
I know. I'm just saying give Irvine time first before anyone else gets it in ;D
Jol to take over at Christmas if things don't improve.
Are we better defensively? The Burnley game aside we've shipped 2 goals in every other home game.
Without doubt. Slightly unsure on Widsom but we have three very good defenders in the back four which is an improvement on last year. I also think we defend much better as a team this year with great work from both our back four and midfield four infront of them. Players know their individual duties and compared to the unorganised rabble of last season I would certainly say we are better defensively.
We've also managed four clean sheets isn't too bad for a side that usually concedes goals.
Are we better defensively? The Burnley game aside we've shipped 2 goals in every other home game.4 clean sheets in 10 suggests so.. It's a Hodgson style that means we'd expect better away from home or teams that will go at us of which we've only really had United and they needed some great goals to draw with us.
4 clean sheets in 10 suggests so.. It's a Hodgson style that means we'd expect better away from home or teams that will go at us of which we've only really had United and they needed some great goals to draw with us.
It was an uninspired appointment most of us will agree. I do think he is a good coach. There are games this season where I have seen so really good passing football. But to me he is no more than a coach. He doesn't appear to have a plan B and isn't great with motivating the players.
Chelsea away , Arsenal home, West Ham home, Hull away. I can't see us getting anything from these games on today's showing.On todays showing, Null pointes!
Without doubt. Slightly unsure on Widsom but we have three very good defenders in the back four which is an improvement on last year. I also think we defend much better as a team this year with great work from both our back four and midfield four infront of them. Players know their individual duties and compared to the unorganised rabble of last season I would certainly say we are better defensively.
We've also managed four clean sheets isn't too bad for a side that usually concedes goals.
Chelsea away , Arsenal home, West Ham home, Hull away. I can't see us getting anything from these games on today's showing.
I said a similar thing to my Dad when coming away from the ground. Hes got good plans when he starts a game but when something doesnt run along with this plan he panics and withdraws into the defensive shell that Preston and Wednesday fans talk about.How many forwards did we finish up on the pitch with?
Got to say that putting wisdom to LB and not Brunt was a terrible decision.Wisdom at left back was not a problem, Wisdom as most attacking left sided player was a problem.
Wisdom at left back was not a problem, Wisdom as most attacking left sided player was a problem.
Our home form is terrible. We're set up to grid out 1-0 wins which is more effective on the counter away. No pace or width despite the fan base screaming out for the same. Lots of slow central midfielders sitting deep and passing the buck. Moving the ball sideways around the back four very very slowly, easy to defend against. Also managed to waste £10m on a striker who can't even make the bench. Ironically our first choice striker Riverirre went to Newcastle and he has also been a flop. I do not trust the scouting department when it comes to forwards. We're repeatedly targeting forwards who are not goal-scorers. Now were over reliant on Saido who has been over hyped by the press in recent weeks.We should have got Sakho that went to west ham , I still think Brown has enough quality (and a very decent ratio) however the stories are not great.
Controversial but we should try and sign Sako from the dingles in January.
I've said after most games now this season that it looks to me like the players are frightened to step out of what they've been told to do in training. It's like they've been programmed and more bothered about sticking to 'their job' rather than to break out of the mould and attack at times. I mean look at Gamboa today, nearly everytime he had the ball he was forced to pass it sidewards or back to the centre half! Granted at times he should have attacked the fb himself, but did he not because he's been told to go on and keep his shape and defend first?We ended up going backwards and sidewards today because we had little movement up front. I would have to agree that Berahino and Anichebe didn't play well together, for which Irvine has to takessome responsibility but arguably he is supposed to be the next England striket and will need to learn how to play with a partner. If Anichebe was as good facing the goal as he is with his back to it he would be genius!
Everytime we counter we have to stop and wait for someone to attempt to get forward. It's all very static, through the middle, no width, no pace.
It looks like the game plan every week is to keep it tight, nick a goal and try and see it out. Last week at Leicester was terrible, we got lucky with the OG and against better teams it won't work, and today was just a shambles all round.
I really want AI to be a success but his idea of football and tactics is not pretty to watch and is pretty boring.
We are desperate for some pace in the team especially in wide areas. Too many players of the same mould.
We ended up going backwards and sidewards today because we had little movement up front. I would have to agree that Berahino and Anichebe didn't play well together, for which Irvine has to takessome responsibility but arguably he is supposed to be the next England striket and will need to learn how to play with a partner. If Anichebe was as good facing the goal as he is with his back to it he would be genius!yep , our movement was very poor , anichebe was good but no one threw themselves at his crosses/knock downs , until dozza did , and got injured for it .
We ended up going backwards and sidewards today because we had little movement up front. I would have to agree that Berahino and Anichebe didn't play well together, for which Irvine has to takessome responsibility but arguably he is supposed to be the next England striket and will need to learn how to play with a partner. If Anichebe was as good facing the goal as he is with his back to it he would be genius!
We go backwards and sideways so often because we don't have the pace or craft in midfield to go past players. This for me has to be the worst midfield we have had since our return to the top flight. Our recruitment over the last couple of years has been abysmal.disagree
I said a similar thing to my Dad when coming away from the ground. Hes got good plans when he starts a game but when something doesnt run along with this plan he panics and withdraws into the defensive shell that Preston and Wednesday fans talk about.
I said a similar thing to my Dad when coming away from the ground. Hes got good plans when he starts a game but when something doesnt run along with this plan he panics and withdraws into the defensive shell that Preston and Wednesday fans talk about.Agree.
Agree.
After 10+ games I think I've now seen enough of Irvine to make an informed judgement; and I think some of his methods are completely fine (organised defense, decent set-pieces, solid away from home etc).
However, there's an underlying theme which hasn't gone un-noticed, which is that after going a goal behind, he completely capitulates and has no alternatives. Quite frankly, I don't care if he grinds out boring results; I grew up watching Megson and that will suit me down to the ground. The issue is that there's no plan b, so if we go a goal down, we can basically kiss any points goodbye. Over the course of a season, this 'strategy' just won't work.
I dread home games.I am board stiff.Worse football i have ever seen yesterdays game
So true and to add the fans said that when the bad runs started he had little or no idea how to get them out of the rut.
The bloke is tactially inept. One thing that has annoyed me after yesterdays game was his criticism of Berahino.I could not believe the criticism of Saido either, shocking deflection tactic. He was poor because he was playing second fiddle to Anichebe and trying to feed off scraps. This I not what earned his call up, he earned that playing as the lone striker.
There was simply no need to come out and talk about Berahino, saying it was his worse game yet. Strikers are cofidence players. No need to put a dent in that. He had more or less our only chance yesterday
I could not believe the criticism of Saido either, shocking deflection tactic. He was poor because he was playing second fiddle to Anichebe and trying to feed off scraps. This I not what earned his call up, he earned that playing as the lone striker.
The little bit of respect I had for Irvine was severely dented by this.
His team selection was to blame for this turgid performance, not Berahino.
The bloke is tactially inept. One thing that has annoyed me after yesterdays game was his criticism of Berahino.
There was simply no need to come out and talk about Berahino, saying it was his worse game yet. Strikers are cofidence players. No need to put a dent in that. He had more or less our only chance yesterday
Its called pass the buck or don't blame me blame him.
JP won't sake AI this season what ever happens on the pitch, he's here for the long hall. IMO
Bye the way I've not changed my mind on AI going he's not & never will be the kind of manager who will bring the kind of football I love to see.
We have no width or pace or flair in all areas and look at the better teams they have players who can!
Is that the fault of Irvine though? His options are pretty much restricted in the wide areas. The only player capable of bringing a bit of width and pace to this side has spent the whole season injured so far.Blanco is supposed to be able to play out wide as well as through the middle, whilst we could do worse than try Gamboa as a right-winger.
There are some fans who are only bothered about results and don't care about performances or a negative approach, which is entirely up to them. However, to my mind overall, poor performances are less likely to see us getting good results, whilst setting the side up negatively can only bear fruit if you're effective on the counter attack. We've only played well fleetingly this season and have been undeniably poor for the past 4 games. The win at Leicester was down to a fluke own goal and we never looked like scoring yesterday either.
Not looking like scoring isn't a great surprise when your head coach is rather phobic about playing your most creative players. Not only that, but he's becoming increasingly reluctant to even put them on the bench. Consequently, once we go behind we don't have the options available (or a coach with an appropriate mindset) to make us look likely to get back into the game. If you're going to play defensively, then you have to be able to be swift on the counter-attack and use width to its full advantage. Unfortunately, Irvine doesn't seem to want to pick players, or even have them available to bring on, who will be effective counter attackers, with the outcome being easily predictable. Where opposing teams play a counter attacking style against us, we don't have much to break them down with and they usually look better than us when pushing forward.
For my part, I'd rather we were throwing away 3 goal leads like last season (note: not that I blame Pepe Mel in the slightest for the occasions where that happened) than Irvine's turgid tactics which, ultimately, are unlikely to see us do any better than last season. Unless he can somehow find a more adventurous bone in his body, it looks like being a struggle in every sense.
Just a couple of other points. Playing 45 mins yesterday with someone at left-back, who's actually a one-footed central defender who can fill in at right-back, unsurprisingly failed and that was extremely poor management, as was singling out Berahino for criticism after the game.
The word "fickle" has been chucked around quite a bit at the weekend. I never wanted Irvine to be our head coach and I still don't, so being fickle is the last thing that those with a similar viewpoint can be accused of.
I guess we would rely on counter attacking especially away from home but unfortunately we have a team of footballers and counter attacking at the moment - without Varela, is not an option.
How can you expect a side to play counter attacking football when their midfield consists of the likes of Graham Dorrans, Chris Brunt and James Morrison? The side is not designed for that and I don't think we have the personnel within the squad to adjust it either. A midfield like that is firmly interested in keeping sideways possession.
Gone of the days where a Steve Clarke side could break away with the likes of Peter Odemwingie, Shane Long or Romelu Lukaku. Alan Irvine just does not have those options available.
All I want is to be entertained, Christ ::) if were not giving the cups a go at least play some decent football.
All I want is to be entertained, Christ ::) if were not giving the cups a go at least play some decent football.
If we win next game everyone will again be declaring AI as the best thing since sliced bread!
If we win the next game he will be yes. If we beat Chelsea then he deserves to be given freedom on the town. ;D
We are 13th in the league, and i doubt many other managers, there are only 4 teams who have scored more than us from 8th in the league down and there is only Stoke who have conceded less, with Newcastle, Hull and Liverpool the same, so despite some shockers (Swansea, Everton and Newcastle games) we have played some good football and we are maybe not the bore team we are said to be (and as i personally thought we would be, happy to be proved wrong though)
It's nothing like Megson though, we used to go at teams with pace from Roberts Hughes Koumas Dyer Kilbane etc we only shut up shop AFTER we'd taken the lead.
Father Ted Parks the bus from kick-off.
We lack width, creativity, and pace.
Apart from that we're ok!!
If we win next game everyone will again be declaring AI as the best thing since sliced bread!No he won't
All I want is to be entertained, Christ ::) if were not giving the cups a go at least play some decent football.
It was frustrating to watch yesterday, I thought with Gamboa coming on he may push Ameobi back but it seems as though he was told to not venture forward too much and to play the safe option.
Our play was predictable, right back to left back to left mid, come back inside and go across the pitch again just hoping something opened up or big Vic managed to get infront of his man.
After the international break he has no excuses not to use Blanco/Brown/Valera, if he doesnt use them then surely questions will be asked on our summers recruitments of foreign players.
Having Baird, Yacob, Mcauley and Gamboa on the bench was too defensive.
I read in the week he said he always wanted two strikers on the bench each game yet yesterday we only had 1. (IF thats Samaras position).
Seems to be alot forgetting that we came back from 2-0 the other week.due in no small part to some generous referreing
due in no small part to some generous referreing
Agree with that but we dominated the second half and looked a different team. It was a good response from us even though we got lucky with the decisions.Really I thought we were probably less effective and certainly just as boring in the second half
Some wont be happy until Irvine as gone, no matter what results we get.
How many teams in this league play the football you expect successfully? and how many seasons in the last 35 years have albion played this entertaining football that everyone reckons we are used to playing? Don't get me wrong it was total dross yesterday but maybe a few people have some unrealistic expectations on fast flowing football we wish to see. I don't think we have the players for it really at the moment.Agree on the Albion way line , as i posted elsewhere I've enjoyed some of our neat passing even if it is across the pitch ....what i don't enjoy is 90 mins of defenders bypassing the middle with hoof balls and i suspect I'm not on my own with that.
Some wont be happy until Irvine as gone, no matter what results we get.
4 games before the villa game.Will we win a game? i expect by then we will be looking for a coach who at least wants to win a football match at home.Not like Clarke set a team up not to looseNO no no mel didn't get us on the edge of our seats, he was abysmal you always knew we were not going to win, the players disliked him most fans disliked him, I just do not understand this misguided judgement of a totally useless coach, he is still out of work and will be for a long time, useless could not organise a pee up in a brewery, just looked good following clueless Clarke that's all
Some of you criticise Mel but at least he got us on the edge of ours seats, with the right defensive coach he should have been given his contract period at least. Yes i know thats past but the future with this coach dont look promising. Supporters of 2 other clubs would most likely agree with me
NO no no mel didn't get us on the edge of our seats, he was abysmal you always knew we were not going to win, the players disliked him most fans disliked him, I just do not understand this misguided judgement of a totally useless coach, he is still out of work and will be for a long time, useless could not organise a pee up in a brewery, just looked good following clueless Clarke that's all
No you are wrong most fans loved him. and i am sure Mels time in charge with the same games played won us more points.
Irvine is at best a kids coach and thats were we got him from because nobody wanted him either apart from JP
He admitted his team selection was based on the opposition, but instead of exploiting their weaknesses he neutralised our strengths.
Trying to be too clever and overthinking things.
This will be his downfall, football isn't played on paper.
Yes he has limited options, but that is more reason not to change for change's sake. He had to replace Gardner, but that should have been the only change.
By far our biggest threat is a confident and in form Berahino, so by playing Anichebe and forcing him out wide was a ridiculous decision. To then single him out for criticism is frankly bizarre.
Be a man, admit you got it wrong, learn from it and move on, don't deflect the attention onto a 21year old.
That's what opinions are all about, fair play to you sticking to your principles, can't agree though but hey that's what it is all about.
Where do you live in south devon? I am from maidencombe area, go to all games home and away
I wonder if many on here understand the irony of those five words?By your smug and condescending reply I presume you think you are the only one clever enough. Well done.
This topic is funny to read. One win and everyone starts eating humble pie, then a defeat and everyone rips into him.
I wonder if many on here understand the irony of those five words?
This topic is funny because he is criticised for playing direct, for playing defensive, for playing possession, for giving the ball away, for playing Mulumbu, for not playing Mulumbu, for playing a lone striker, for playing two up front, for only having one plan, for not playing the new players, for playing the new players.
Its a tough job (unless done from your armchair).
Common sense ;)
So how come Oldbury is top dog? ;D
By your smug and condescending reply I presume you think you are the only one clever enough. Well done.
We are allowed to post our thoughts on paper because that is our only forum. Irvine is paid to get results on the pitch. At present he is not and, I believe, it is in part due to him over analysing the opposition.
Great lets scrap the forum, opinions are obviously not welcome when sat in your armchair.
Could you let me know what qualifications are required before posting.
I wonder how many of our players and coaches understand the cost of attending that rubbish that was dished up sunday at £90 with travel costs from north wales was soul destroying. I expect people who earn 10s of thousands of pounds a week to show a bit of craft. not in an hurry to spend those sums every other week to get such a poor return,loosing I accept but to watch your side show little or no skill to try and win is unacceptable.
Why did you highlight my post & then reply with something not remotely like a response to that post?
We all pay what we pay to watch the Albion, if you don't like the product, don't go, there's no obligation.
Excuse me? my post was meant to be neither smug or condescending, you don't know me, so I would appreciate you having a bit more respect & don't behave like a keyboard warrior.It is disrespectful to insinuate that both myself and most posters are not smart enough to see your perceived irony. Whether you meant it that way or not that is how it came across.
I was merely trying to point out that a lot of 'experts' on here would fail to see the irony of what you posted, obviously you yourself missed it too.
None whatsoever and it shows ;)
I have no problem with opinions, just ask for them to be backed up with an ounce of evidence. If people keep trying to create Internet myths with no basis in fact then expect for it to be highlighted.
For example, in someones opinion, in another forum we apparently have the least attacking side in the league but only 11 sides have scored more goals than us?
Hes playing 4 midfielders who cannot go past a player. Not any player in the team apart from Sess has that quality of running at players. Berahino cannot do it ethier hes only good with grass infront of him, but a defender there and he offers nothing!
We have no width or pace or flair in all areas and look at the better teams they have players who can!
Sissoko yesterday was brilliant at driving forward, you look at Downing at West Ham and he drives the team forward by running with the ball!
Not ONE albion player did that yesterday!
In My opinion our midfield lacks creativity and pace, would you disagree?Our current favoured midfield I would be inclined to agree with pace but not creativity. Some of our passing is exquisite and all have put defence splitting passes through this season and the goals for column would suggest we are more creative than some teams. They are not more creative than some players in the league but that is why they are at West Brom and not Chelsea or Man City, people have to be realistic and accept that.
Irvine tries to set up a side that is difficult to break down, however when at home against the likes of Crystal Palace and Newcastle we should take the game to them from the off.
We only seem to open upon once we go a goal down.
We allow teams to become to comfortable.
Our current favoured midfield I would be inclined to agree with pace but not creativity. Some of our passing is exquisite and all have put defence splitting passes through this season and the goals for column would suggest we are more creative than some teams. They are not more creative than some players in the league but that is why they are at West Brom and not Chelsea or Man City, people have to be realistic and accept that.
There was a spell in the Premier League when all clubs seemed set up to attack and it was refreshing but most sides of our stature seem to have gone back to not losing before attacking. Sadly symptomatic of the need to stay in the greed league.
Have you seen Newcastles current form? To expect a result against them is slightly disrespectful.
I never said I expect a result against anyone, what I said is we should be on the front foot from the off when at home.
We simply allow most teams to much time to settle and seem to try and grind out a result.
Personally I come away from games having not been entertained.
You may not think I am qualified to give an opinion however I am not enjoying the match day experience with Irvine in charge.
I never said I expect a result against anyone, what I said is we should be on the front foot from the off when at home.At no point have I said anything about your qualification to give an opinion just pointed out that there is no need for qualification to have an opinion and in some posters it shows (And I wouldn't suggest that you were in that category).
We simply allow most teams to much time to settle and seem to try and grind out a result.
Personally I come away from games having not been entertained.
You may not think I am qualified to give an opinion however I am not enjoying the match day experience with Irvine in charge.
It is disrespectful to insinuate that both myself and most posters are not smart enough to see your perceived irony. Whether you meant it that way or not that is how it came across.
I am no keyboard warrior, you don't know me either but saw fit to pick out and highlight a section of my post, so I responded.
I think that's fair.
Why did you highlight my post & then reply with something not remotely like a response to that post?
We all pay what we pay to watch the Albion, if you don't like the product, don't go, there's no obligation.
And if you don't like what you see in the pitch, you are free to say so.
At no point have I said anything about your qualification to give an opinion just pointed out that there is no need for qualification to have an opinion and in some posters it shows (And I wouldn't suggest that you were in that category).
I have said previously that I do not on occasion enjoy the match day experience but do not necessarily put that down to Alan Irvine but the direction that football has been heading for a number of years.
Out of interest, when did you last enjoy the match day experience?
Oh dear............ please read previous posts to the ones you respond to & that way you (hopefully) wont take them out of context.
My comment was a protest against how you always argue against people who dare criticize the team, rather than argue against the argument put forward. You never involve yourself in discussions. All you do is snipe at people daring to voice an opinion. You never argue against the arguments, you argue, indirectly, that others are inherently wrong to put forward their opinion in the first place (presumably because you don't agree with it). I never see you make a counter argument so people can compare your reasoning to the argument put forward, I see you insinuating and undermining in general rather than being clear and specific. If you disagree, say so and explain why. That would be much more interesting. Then we could have an interesting discussion and learn how the other person sees things and why.
Now all I get from you is that you don't seem to like these discussions, but I don't know why really. You have said in the past that you have some football background and you don't like to discuss these things, which is fine. But then please don't insinuate without putting forward a clear context for your thinking, because as Seteefeet said, it just makes you come across as smug and condescending.
Thanks for your instructions on how I should post, I've made a mental note of it (sorry if that came across as condescending) for the record, I tend to get involved in debate with members who I feel have a similar appreciation of all things West Bromwich Albion but more importantly football in general.
I don't read your post's as I feel a lot of the time they are just full of sound bites & jargon I don't comprehend as a football fan, please don't feel the need to reply, oh & you'll probably find that seteefeet is big enough to stick up for himself.
The most amazing thing to me is that Irvine was a winger, yet he sets his teams up to play narrow with no natural width.
Know quite a few that do that now and can't blame them even before Irvine came, Cracking dayout vocal support and seeing a different part of the country I don't blame them at all, I still enjoy home games however if we saw a pattern of Sunday's performances I might rethink.
i suppose similar could be said about Tony Mowbray.
I dearly hope we see some football in the coming weeks, if it dont improve i might just stick to away games because home games is like watching paint dry
The most amazing thing to me is that Irvine was a winger, yet he sets his teams up to play narrow with no natural width.the most amazing thing to me is that Irvine is our manager!!! :( :( >:( >:( :(
The most amazing thing to me is that Irvine was a winger, yet he sets his teams up to play narrow with no natural width.
Tony Mowbray was a centre half yet his teams could't defend for toffeeMowbray always admitted though that he was a frustrated forward and that was the reason for his playing style.
Tony Mowbray was a centre half yet his teams could't defend for toffee
The problem for me is that the football from us is mind numbingly boring to watch. I am an Albion fan. I don't expect to win every week. But I do like to be entertained and on Sunday there wasn't one single moment of excitement where we even looked remotely like scoring, or a single fast break which got me out of my seat. We were so narrow, so slow, it was easy for a very average side to play us off the park, and it made me very annoyed. But I guess this is all we can expect from AI. He moans about lack of width and lack of intensity, as we all do, the difference being that it is in his power to do something about it but he won't because he believes that this dross is the way to get results. Unfortunately he has been proved right in this respect a few times this season because the luck has gone our way and this will only cement his belief, but the luck will run out and then we are in trouble. I really don't want to see us relegated but I believe we are in deep trouble despite our current position and I'm not at all convinced that there are 3 teams worse than us.
It defies logic that wins are due to luck and losses aren't.
There is nothing logical about chance/chaos. It is the element of unpredictability that allows for lesser teams to sometimes win against better teams. The reason the teams have formed into a league to play a set number of games is to determine which team is the best one over time. The time factor eliminates luck and chance and balances more towards skill over... time.
Leicester scored an own goal in our favour (lucky bounce). Newcastle scored an outrageous back heel against us (combination luck/skill as he won't score many goals like that in his career). This was unlucky for us and once we are behind we will always struggle to come back.
West Brom have conceded at least twice in their last seven Premier League home defeats.
The Baggies have not won any of the last 24 Premier League home games that they have conceded a goal in.
That last one is a rather shocking stat isn't it. Score a goal against us at home and we simply don't win the game. Also we are leaking goals at home.
I think that's far from a thorough examination of all possible "luck" in all our games. Are we still blaming Irvine for the Everton goals?So what you seem to be suggesting is that we are doing fine really, all things considered, yes?
Which means only that the score hasn't been 0-1 in any of those seven games. I don't find that meaningful.
Ah yes, the "home games in which a goal was conceded" table. Here's last year with only our bottom-half rivals (I didn't feel it was worth my time to find out that Manchester City did better at home than us):
W D L PPG
Villa 4 1 10 0.867
Cardiff 3 3 9 0.800
Crystal Palace 2 2 8 0.667
Albion 0 9 6 0.600
West Ham 2 1 9 0.583
Norwich 1 3 7 0.545
Swansea 1 4 8 0.538
Hull 1 2 8 0.455
Fulham 1 3 11 0.400
Sunderland 1 1 11 0.308
That 0 in our win column is shocking? No more so than the 6 in our loss column. It's an example of an obscure statistic taken out of context. We did better than most comparable clubs in home games in which we conceded a goal.
All this reminds me of this post (http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=8955.msg188626#msg188626). I really think you should examine these factoids before you attach much significance to them.
So what you seem to be suggesting is that we are doing fine really, all things considered, yes?
Not fine. I'd like it to get better. I don't think we are playing substantially better than a relegation-zone club. I just have a problem with attributing wins to luck and losses to Alan Irvine.I suppose the point is that luck (as any poker player will tell you) isn't consistent in the way it works. Overall this season I think we have had more than our fair share of luck and this will balance out at some point. When this happens we are in the poo. I don't just blame AI, I think he is only a small part of the overall problem with the club, but he is responsible for picking the side, preparing the side, motivating the side, and setting up how the side plays, so I don't think it is surprising that people have a pop when we are served up the garbage we had to endure on Sunday.
Really get the feeling this will be a season similar to Hodgsons, aka some excellent performances on the road, but pretty dismal at home!
I'm a ST holder and I haven't seen us win a home game live since we beat West Ham last April (I declined to travel down from the north west for our demolition of championship standard Burnley). The weekend was a shambles and our home form for the past 15 months has been and is shocking. We stink of a relegation team. The only question for me is will we be in the bottom three or bottom six.
The following sides are nailed on to finish above us: Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Utd, Everton, Spurs, Southampton, Stoke, West Ham, Swansea, Liverpool, Newcastle.
We will finish above Burnley.
That leaves two of us, Sunderland, Hull, Villa, Palace, Leicester and QPR to be relegated which mathematically lives us with at least a 28.57% chance of relegation. QPR Have an expensive team and Redknapp will spend in January if needs be, they are already improving after a terrible start. Villa always seem to sqeak home. Taking just two teams out off the above list increasing our relegation odds to 40%!
Disturbingly we have already played Burnley, Sunderland & Palace at home but could only muster 4/9 pts.
It's no good Irvine bemoaning a lack of drive or intensity when he fills the bench with defensive players. Clarke who gets far too much stick on here always has plenty of attacking options on the bench, as you would expect as it's common sense!
Interesting to see Idaye Brown defending himself as we'll - the longer he is out of the team the lower his confidence will sink.
Also is any other fan sick and tired of professional employees missing the bleeding obvious?
I.e. Statistically we never win without Sess, I don't think we've won a single game he hasn't started since he signed? Secondly Anichebe always contributes from the bench nut is terrible when started from the off. Faced with those two FACTS our highly paid head coach and assistants start with Anichebe and then subb Sess and put him on the wing late on when we all know he needs to be running at the back four in the hole.
It's all so frustrating I could scream - and to think its only November. How many more clueless decisions are we to endure? Plenty I suspect.
I'm a ST holder and I haven't seen us win a home game live since we beat West Ham last April (I declined to travel down from the north west for our demolition of championship standard Burnley). The weekend was a shambles and our home form for the past 15 months has been and is shocking. We stink of a relegation team. The only question for me is will we be in the bottom three or bottom six.
The following sides are nailed on to finish above us: Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Utd, Everton, Spurs, Southampton, Stoke, West Ham, Swansea, Liverpool, Newcastle.
We will finish above Burnley.
That leaves two of us, Sunderland, Hull, Villa, Palace, Leicester and QPR to be relegated which mathematically lives us with at least a 28.57% chance of relegation. QPR Have an expensive team and Redknapp will spend in January if needs be, they are already improving after a terrible start. Villa always seem to sqeak home. Taking just two teams out off the above list increasing our relegation odds to 40%!
Disturbingly we have already played Burnley, Sunderland & Palace at home but could only muster 4/9 pts.
It's no good Irvine bemoaning a lack of drive or intensity when he fills the bench with defensive players. Clarke who gets far too much stick on here always has plenty of attacking options on the bench, as you would expect as it's common sense!
Interesting to see Idaye Brown defending himself as we'll - the longer he is out of the team the lower his confidence will sink.
Also is any other fan sick and tired of professional employees missing the bleeding obvious?
I.e. Statistically we never win without Sess, I don't think we've won a single game he hasn't started since he signed? Secondly Anichebe always contributes from the bench nut is terrible when started from the off. Faced with those two FACTS our highly paid head coach and assistants start with Anichebe and then subb Sess and put him on the wing late on when we all know he needs to be running at the back four in the hole.
It's all so frustrating I could scream - and to think its only November. How many more clueless decisions are we to endure? Plenty I suspect.
From what i have seen so far this season i have come up with the following conclusions about AI:
The players look fitter than they have for a while,
we can pass and keep the ball better ( across the park most of the time),
Our defense looks better, but it had to with proper full backs in it.
We have no width at all in our play.
We may as well have a empty bench the use it is with our substitutions during the game.
We have a game plan and if it isn't working we don't have the ability to change it.
Marks out of 10 for him so far = 6
Same here i have not seen us win since West Ham. If home performances dont improve like i said yesterday i will go to most away games instead and sell my home seat. I am not coming away feeling deflated and depressed about how we are playing for much longer
I'm a ST holder and I haven't seen us win a home game live since we beat West Ham last April (I declined to travel down from the north west for our demolition of championship standard Burnley). The weekend was a shambles and our home form for the past 15 months has been and is shocking. We stink of a relegation team. The only question for me is will we be in the bottom three or bottom six.
The following sides are nailed on to finish above us: Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Utd, Everton, Spurs, Southampton, Stoke, West Ham, Swansea, Liverpool, Newcastle.
We will finish above Burnley.
That leaves two of us, Sunderland, Hull, Villa, Palace, Leicester and QPR to be relegated which mathematically lives us with at least a 28.57% chance of relegation. QPR Have an expensive team and Redknapp will spend in January if needs be, they are already improving after a terrible start. Villa always seem to sqeak home. Taking just two teams out off the above list increasing our relegation odds to 40%!
Disturbingly we have already played Burnley, Sunderland & Palace at home but could only muster 4/9 pts.
It's no good Irvine bemoaning a lack of drive or intensity when he fills the bench with defensive players. Clarke who gets far too much stick on here always has plenty of attacking options on the bench, as you would expect as it's common sense!
Interesting to see Idaye Brown defending himself as we'll - the longer he is out of the team the lower his confidence will sink.
Also is any other fan sick and tired of professional employees missing the bleeding obvious?
I.e. Statistically we never win without Sess, I don't think we've won a single game he hasn't started since he signed? Secondly Anichebe always contributes from the bench nut is terrible when started from the off. Faced with those two FACTS our highly paid head coach and assistants start with Anichebe and then subb Sess and put him on the wing late on when we all know he needs to be running at the back four in the hole.
It's all so frustrating I could scream - and to think its only November. How many more clueless decisions are we to endure? Plenty I suspect.
I'll have two pints of what you've just had please ;DIt's more to do with less pressure and expectancy, we tend to be more solid away from home and this is why i can see us doing better on the road this year.
I think Irvine will be a disaster. The only thing that can save him is good players, but there doesn't seem to be much action there at the moment. I'm not on his case, I just have an opinion.
*Apparently* we used to break the season down into blocks of 10 games to enable us to judge performance. This season I would say lets take the 1st 11 games. (There's a couple of difficult ones after that, so I'm being kind.) There's 7 peer teams in there, plus 2 we should be aspiring to compete with and 2 we wont be competing with. So after 11 games I would like 15 points. We will need to be around that level for the 1st 3rd (ish) of the season judging from our run in.
- Anything less than 11 is abject failure.
- Between 11 and 15, you make a judgement call on whether things are improving or going downwards.
- 15 or more than you're on course or better.
11 games take us up to early November. Make a decision then. If we need to replace Irvine we can do our due dithering and get someone in before Christmas...
13 points from 11 games. Much better than I expected. Some positives. Some negatives.good post but who really expected baird and samaras to have an impact,2 very poor additions in my eye.
Positives
We're a lot more organised. Lescott looks effective (in fact I was feeling positive about the back 4 for a while, but conceding 2 at home every game isn't going to work). Berahino - I wasn't expecting his start to the season - let's hope he stays focussed. 13 points.
Negatives
('1st choice' defenders excepted) the new signings have failed to have any impact after 3 months (maybe a symptom of signing so late in the window). Ideye, Samaras, Davidson, Gamboa, Baird have had no impact. Varela - the same, but maybe injury has stopped him (maybe wishful thinking). Blanco has looked decent in the cup games I've seen... but didn't make the bench on Saturday, when we desperately needed someone to change the game. Gardner - I think he flatters to deceive - he runs around and is very busy, but to very little effect - the new Andy Johnson. The midfield on Saturday was the same that played for most of the last promotion season, 5 years ago - where is the progression? Without Berahino's goals where would we be? What has happened to the pillars on which our team was built - Mulumbu, Yacob, McCauley and Olsson?
I have very mixed feelings still. I'm a long way for calling for Irvine to go, but I think he has to demonstrate that he can build an attacking element into the team, and we really need to improve the home team before I'll properly want to get behind him. We are workman like and predictable.
good post but who really expected baird and samaras to have an impact,2 very poor additions in my eye.
I didn't, and it speaks volumes that Baird and Samaras were selected for the bench ahead of Ideye and Blanco...
Can't quite get my head around having both Baird and Yacob on the bench. Baird is taking up a space for a more creative player
Tells me all I need to know about the style of football he wants the team to play.Its quite obvious how he wants the team to play but we aint that good at that either, with nearly a 3rd of the season gone I expect this to be the way he will carry on setting us up. this will be one long hard season and could set us back years if we go down.
It's more to do with less pressure and expectancy, we tend to be more solid away from home and this is why i can see us doing better on the road this year.Irvine sets up teams well away from home, because you can afford to be more cautious. Let's face it he would take 0-0 every week away. The problem is, he does not seem to have the guts to try and win at home, if anything he is even more cautious.
Hopefully we will get to see Varela soon, training game behind closed doors today including most of the summer signings.Sorry, but this seems like fitness by numbers to me. Is someone who is fully fit, but rubbish, better to have on the bench than someone who is 'not quite there', but may actually have an impact.
If everyone is fit and we're not doing well Irvine has no excuse. Sadly he will keep banging out the same lines that the players are 'not quite where we want them to be'
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/varela-steps-up-fitness-pursuit-2077400.aspx
Is it really necessary to keep attributing Irvine's motivation to cowardice? Knowing his extensive preparation, it's vastly more likely that he has specific reasons for choosing players. We don't know what they are, unfortunately, but they undoubtedly exist. I doubt anyone here has enough regular contact with Irvine to glean some direct insight into his personal courage.
“Brown gives us one option – that’s to replace Saido if Saido has got a problem, but I think if I leave Saido out people might say ‘you are an idiot’.â€Bobby, unsurprisingly perhaps, seems to see things differently from the head coach:
Bobby, unsurprisingly perhaps, seems to see things differently from the head coach:Bit of trouble brewing if you ask me.
"Ideye is also convinced that he can play alongside England new boy Saido Berahino, with Victor Anichebe being favoured at present.
He added: “It’s unfortunate he has made more time than me. Both of us play the same role but we can play together, I don’t have a problem with that. We have pace, we’re strong and we can cause problems to defences. That is what every coach wants.â€"
Source: Sky Sports (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9562383/transfer-news-brown-ideye-concerned-by-lack-of-west-brom-game-time)
Is it really necessary to keep attributing Irvine's motivation to cowardice? Knowing his extensive preparation, it's vastly more likely that he has specific reasons for choosing players. We don't know what they are, unfortunately, but they undoubtedly exist. I doubt anyone here has enough regular contact with Irvine to glean some direct insight into his personal courage.If we did it, wouldn't be a forum would it, it would be a Q&A with Alan Irvine.
If we did it, wouldn't be a forum would it, it would be a Q&A with Alan Irvine.
My opinion is that he lacks a bit of bravery, I don't claim to have a direct insight into his personal courage, I can only speak about what I see on the pitch, the same as most people on here.
No one doubts his meticulous approach to preparation, but there comes a time where you have to take a risk. Granted, in the high pressure environment he works in, risks are accentuated and can go very wrong so caution is understandable, but at present he is at risk of going down with a whimper.
I don't even want him to go, I don't think another change at this point would do any good, I just want him to release the shackles a bit, especially at home.
If we did it, wouldn't be a forum would it, it would be a Q&A with Alan Irvine.
My opinion is that he lacks a bit of bravery, I don't claim to have a direct insight into his personal courage, I can only speak about what I see on the pitch, the same as most people on here.
Which makes him overly conservative, not necessarily lacking in intestinal fortitude. Otherwise it would imply that he arrives at some crucial moment in the game and declines to make a change out of fear, as opposed to being part of his usual approach to keep his starters on the pitch.Of course there is an element of fear, it is a high stakes game, who wouldn't be scared of getting it wrong? The trouble is he is being overly conservative and it isn't getting results.
Of course there is an element of fear, it is a high stakes game, who wouldn't be scared of getting it wrong? The trouble is he is being overly conservative and it isn't getting results.
When he goes paintballing, he may be right gung ho, with intestinal fortitude aplenty, unfortunately on matchday I think fear of failure is restricting him.
I think you're being unfair to him by assuming the worst. But I'm probably in a small minority.You may be right mate, but I can only speak as I find based on what I see on a matchday.
Did we ever get to the bottom of the 'did Irvine turn us down first time round?' saga?
Did we ever get to the bottom of the 'did Irvine turn us down first time round?' saga?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/preston/8120577.stm
Bobby, unsurprisingly perhaps, seems to see things differently from the head coach:
"Ideye is also convinced that he can play alongside England new boy Saido Berahino, with Victor Anichebe being favoured at present.
He added: “It’s unfortunate he has made more time than me. Both of us play the same role but we can play together, I don’t have a problem with that. We have pace, we’re strong and we can cause problems to defences. That is what every coach wants.â€"
Source: Sky Sports (http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9562383/transfer-news-brown-ideye-concerned-by-lack-of-west-brom-game-time)
You may be right mate, but I can only speak as I find based on what I see on a matchday.And a pig just flew past my bedroom window......this guy is so timid he makes Snow White seem like The Rock".
I guarantee one thing though, if we turn up at the next home game and he drops a couple of the old guard and brings in Varela and Gamboa on the wings, then it will be a completely different atmosphere around the ground.
Ok, it might not work, but it would certainly get the crowd going, whereas at present the team selection just promotes boredom.
Let's face it this appointment will turn out to be a disaster. Irvine just cannot put out a positive attacking team. He has been backed financially more than any other head coach/manager in the clubs history but he will not use the attacking players available to himLet's face it this appointment MAY turn out to be a disaster (although 13th in the league at the minute suggests it MAY not be) Irvine just HASN'T put out a positive attacking team (although our goals for record isn't that bad compared to some suggests we are attacking somewhere) He has been backed financially more than any other head coach mananager in the clubs history but he HASN'T used the attacking players that I want him to (yet).
Is AI naïve or professional?
He seems to study the opposition,decide if they are a skilful team or a physical one then pick our team accordingly.
Should he not pick our best team and let the opposition worry about us particularly at home?
If he does rely on opposing team's set up then should we be set up like for like or should we set up with an alternative formation?eg if they are Physical we go skill and if they are skillfull we go Physical.
Is AI naïve or professional?
He seems to study the opposition,decide if they are a skilful team or a physical one then pick our team accordingly.
Should he not pick our best team and let the opposition worry about us particularly at home?
If he does rely on opposing team's set up then should we be set up like for like or should we set up with an alternative formation?eg if they are Physical we go skill and if they are skillfull we go Physical.
Is AI naïve or professional?
He seems to study the opposition,decide if they are a skilful team or a physical one then pick our team accordingly.
Should he not pick our best team and let the opposition worry about us particularly at home?
If he does rely on opposing team's set up then should we be set up like for like or should we set up with an alternative formation?eg if they are Physical we go skill and if they are skillfull we go Physical.
Is AI naïve or professional?He says he set up the way he did against Newcastle because he thought 'this will be another Crystal Palace', he was clearly wrong, it wasn't.
He seems to study the opposition,decide if they are a skilful team or a physical one then pick our team accordingly.
Should he not pick our best team and let the opposition worry about us particularly at home?
If he does rely on opposing team's set up then should we be set up like for like or should we set up with an alternative formation?eg if they are Physical we go skill and if they are skillfull we go Physical.
We have to win are home games if we have any chance of staying in this league and at the minute one win is not goodWe don't have to win our home games to stay up , we have to gain more points than three other teams. I struggle with the logic that a home game is more important than an away game. Both are played over 90 minutes against 11 men and have the same amount of points attributed to them. If anything there is more pressure on home games due to greater expectation and therefore a higher risk of failure?
enough. In my eyes the coach is not flexible in his choice of personal or formation.
We don't have to win our home games to stay up , we have to gain more points than three other teams. I struggle with the logic that a home game is more important than an away game. Both are played over 90 minutes against 11 men and have the same amount of points attributed to them. If anything there is more pressure on home games due to greater expectation and therefore a higher risk of failure?
Let's face it this appointment MAY turn out to be a disaster (although 13th in the league at the minute suggests it MAY not be) Irvine just HASN'T put out a positive attacking team (although our goals for record isn't that bad compared to some suggests we are attacking somewhere) He has been backed financially more than any other head coach mananager in the clubs history but he HASN'T used the attacking players that I want him to (yet).
I think this is more reasonable. Happy to help.
If we loose our next 5 games with negative football will he be on his way? How many points will we get fromI reckon 6 points would be ok, more would be great, less and we, and Irvine, will be struggling.
Chelsea
Arsenal
West Ham
Hull
Villa
If we loose our next 5 games with negative football will he be on his way? How many points will we get from15 mate :D
Chelsea
Arsenal
West Ham
Hull
Villa
If we loose our next 5 games with negative football will he be on his way? How many points will we get from
Chelsea
Arsenal
West Ham
Hull
Villa
We don't have to win our home games to stay up , we have to gain more points than three other teams. I struggle with the logic that a home game is more important than an away game. Both are played over 90 minutes against 11 men and have the same amount of points attributed to them. If anything there is more pressure on home games due to greater expectation and therefore a higher risk of failure?
Expectation?That makes very depressing reading :(
Two home league wins since 1st Jan and you think there's expectation that we're going to win? The West Ham game is the only one I missed - So, since 1st Jan I've seen 14 home games, 9 draws, 4 defeats and we beat Burnley. My expectations are very low. I am so fed up of walking away from games fed up and disappointed.
If we loose our next 5 games with negative football will he be on his way? How many points will we get from
Chelsea
Arsenal
West Ham
Hull
Villa
If we loose our next 5 games with negative football will he be on his way? How many points will we get from
Chelsea
Arsenal
West Ham
Hull
Villa
I think 8 points is a good return for these fixtures
I think we'll pick up around 7-8 points from them fixtures. The fans who never wanted him in the first place are too quick to criticise every bad result when there were posts about humble pie before the Newcastle game. 13th in the league with 13 points from 11 games is a good return. We've played some good stuff at times and we've played some poor football at other times just like we did under Clarke, Hodgson, Mel/Downing etc. Our home form and performances have been poor for a while now and needs to improve, away from home we're set up well and will pick up points.Good assessment of where we are at and how AI is doing
I think we'll pick up around 7-8 points from them fixtures. The fans who never wanted him in the first place are too quick to criticise every bad result when there were posts about humble pie before the Newcastle game. 13th in the league with 13 points from 11 games is a good return. We've played some good stuff at times and we've played some poor football at other times just like we did under Clarke, Hodgson, Mel/Downing etc. Our home form and performances have been poor for a while now and needs to improve, away from home we're set up well and will pick up points.
Don't think you will have to Devon it will be Peace and the few backers he's got on here who will eating a large helping of pie over the New Year when JP finally realises he has to pull the trigger.
I am not eating anymore pie.This bloke is not going to entertain us ever, football is an entertain business.The atmosphere is only going to get worse
I think the humble pie posts from some was before the Palace game.
Don't think you will have to Devon it will be Peace and the few backers he's got on here who will eating a large helping of pie over the New Year when JP finally realises he has to pull the trigger.And if he does pull the trigger don't think anyone will be eating humble pie. Some people were just willing to give Irvine a chance the same as some were willing to give Clarke and Mel a chance.
And if he does pull the trigger don't think anyone will be eating humble pie. Some people were just willing to give Irvine a chance the same as some were willing to give Clarke and Mel a chance.Most sensible post I have read on this board in a long time I'm afraid.
Don't think you will have to Devon it will be Peace and the few backers he's got on here who will eating a large helping of pie over the New Year when JP finally realises he has to pull the trigger.
I'm a backer because he's with my club. That's all it takes: just don the stripes or the track suit, and you have my respect and backing.Agree in general but more than happy to see the back of Bednar, Anelka, Odemwhingey. Bring my club into disrepute you lose my backing.
Whether I think a coach or a player is good enough is an entirely separate matter.
Agree in general but more than happy to see the back of Bednar, Anelka, Odemwhingey. Bring my club into disrepute you lose my backing.
And if he does pull the trigger don't think anyone will be eating humble pie. Some people were just willing to give Irvine a chance the same as some were willing to give Clarke and Mel a chance.
This in a nutshell. Irvine wasn't anyone's first choice (or second, third, or fortieth) but he was hired. I was a Mel supporter because it was a stance against the club and I genuinely wanted him to do well. I'm an Irvine supporter for the same reason - because I want him, and by association, the team to do well. If I have to weigh up my feelings towards managers in a statement it's that while the team does well I'm happy. Nothing is to say any manager would be a guaranteed success here by any means. And if a manager fails to do well here I won't vilify him or express anger at him. It doesn't make me a happy clapper by any means. As long as a manager gives his best (regardless of if he falls short or not) I back them.I'll give the bloke a chance, but he has to give our summer recruits a chance. I'm surprised that Jp hasn't pulled him on the lack of game time these players whom Alan assessed as being needed to bolster the first team and squad.
We could have motormouth Sherwood in charge talking garbage every post match interview and making us look sour, or we could, until he leaves, treat Irvine with respect. He's not disgracing the club, he's not giving us a bad name, and until he does he should be treated as a guy doing a job to the best of HIS ability, not judged against a speculative benchmark of what we think someone else may have done.
Suggesting someone like Pulis would be a better candidate (as has been said) sacrifices the playing style others crave. Efficient football isn't always good football. Good football isn't always winning football. Let's quit speculating who can or would do a better job and back the man, whoever and whenever, is in charge of our team, until he passes on that role.
Why do we have to back him on here? Why can't we speculate? Surely this is the ideal place, it is a forum after all. I'm sure Irvine's not crying into his cornflakes over anyone's comments, he doesn't read them does he?
As far as I am concerned he and, as Quakes said earlier anyone who dons the colours, gets my 100% support on matchday and I want him / them to win every game.
This however is a forum for voicing opinions and venting frustrations, it's what it's designed to do.
Personally, I love the rants and the disagreements it shows we all share the same passion even if we don't share the same opinions.
If we all agreed and liked each other, this would be a dull site. :D
By backing him, I mean supporting him on match day and always showing him the basic respect that the head coach of West Bromwich Albion Football Club deserves (always with the caveat that he isn't doing anything unseemly). I certainly don't mean that anyone shouldn't disapprove of his performance. Then I'll only take issue if I think the facts or logic employed don't support the conclusion.That is what matters at the end of the day POINTS.
Personally, I'm still waiting to see more. He's gotten some things right and others wrong. I'm willing to accept a conservative style of play if it gets us points and keeps us up.
all i ask is to entertained especially at home games, Mel provided us with the best atacking football in years.
With the players we have quite possibly our best premier league playing squad i expect more chances on goal with exciting through balls and not the the rubbish sidways football in our own half.
Just going out to win a game from the off,If we loose we loose but i will be alot happier knowing we have given it our all rather than being too cautious, simples .
Like i have said if this brand of football contiues at home i will select certain home and go away instead. I am bored silly at the moment
If Irvine went 3-0 up against Spurs and threw it away due to poor tactics he would be slated ridiculously if we went 3-2 up against a rubbish team with seconds to play then give an equaliser away he would be slated if he went two up at villa then due to playing a high line with players everyone in england knows couldn't play it he would get slated yet mel is still a hero. Mel didn't have a clue except for playing one way it was embarrassing the amount of mistakes and his tactics cost us points last season. It was good for a neutral but not an albion fan, never been so annoyed coming out of grounds
In my life as I did end of last season
If Irvine went 3-0 up against Spurs and threw it away due to poor tactics he would be slated ridiculously if we went 3-2 up against a rubbish team with seconds to play then give an equaliser away he would be slated if he went two up at villa then due to playing a high line with players everyone in england knows couldn't play it he would get slated yet mel is still a hero. Mel didn't have a clue except for playing one way it was embarrassing the amount of mistakes and his tactics cost us points last season. It was good for a neutral but not an albion fan, never been so annoyed coming out of groundsyou don't speak for all albion fans though,i enjoyed mels short spell here. if you didn't fair enough
In my life as I did end of last season
you don't speak for all albion fans though,i enjoyed mels short spell here. if you didn't fair enough
If Irvine keeps up with the turgid football at home it will be his own downfall . Give me what mel offered any day.I come out of the ground after watching negative football which is supposed to be an entertaining business thinking what's the point
Football is a Sport, a competition between teams. It’s about getting results, trying to win and not to lose (note lose, not loose).
If it’s entertainment you’re after, go to the Theatre, Cinema or watch TV.
Believe it or not, sometimes the ball has to go sideways or backwards if there isn’t a forward pass available. It’s about keeping possession, switching play, looking for and exploiting the gaps.
Face it, Mel was taking us down to the Championship until Downing & Kiely dragged us away from the inevitable relegation.
The results against Vile, Cardiff and Spurs last season were Kamikaze football and utterly embarrassing. If that was entertainment, give me dull any day of the week.
Yeah, Bomber got a statue because he bored the Albions fans to death I'm sure.
Every good side needs to have the right balance between attack and defence, its what makes Chelsea so good as they have it absolutely spot on this season.
It is easier said than done to get that balance right as the margins are often so fine but I have no doubt we are set up a little too defensively, I can understand that against the top sides when it is a case of trying to pinch a result on the break but we do it no matter who we are playing.
Here lies the problem of expectations from albion fans though to me, everyone wants or expects this team to play like we did in that era which we just haven't got the players for, as the late 70s team was far superior. It's like you want dorrans to play like bomber, brunt to be like Cunningham, strikers to play like Regis. I'm to young but by all accounts they were out of this world so were able to play like that.
All this talk of 'the albion way' baffles me a bit aswell I mean how many times since 1980 have we played this way? Season under ossie ardiles? Few months at end of 06/07 and the 07/08 season?
I thimk we played well for a few years after Mowbray aswel but a lot on here call hodgson boring so not too sure what is expected.
You make a valid point here, as on another thread, Hodgson is the manager most people on here voted to have as their manager of this current squad, yet you could argue he didnt make us play 'the Albion way'.
At the end of the day all I want to see is Albion be successful and achieveing the best position possible. I would take standard football and mid table finishes every season over playing Mels tactics and being in a relegation battle all day long.
To me hodgson had that balance sorted brilliantly for us yet a load on here still go on saying how negative he was I just don't know what people expect.
Nothing changes there then
I am not asking for champions league football just a few more sortes into opposition areas instead of sideways moves and for Irvine to stop keep looking at his watch
Even Roy couldn't always get that balance right, for a team like ours it will often come down to what players you have available on the day. When Roy was here and Odemwingie was available we had a player that could make something happen from an attacking point of view, he was supported by the likes of Long making a nuisance of himself with Brunt and Morrison performing well.
I think the best balance we had was under Steve Clarke when he first arrived but eventually he lost that when the going got tough he got a little too defensive but as I said before the margins were so fine, a couple of penalty decisions going our way and we could have had a very different season and Clarke wouldn't have lost his job when he did.
The only expectation I have each game is for our lads to give their all no matter what system they are being asked to play, I think as a supporter that is all you can expect. However I do hope to see Irvine set up the side to be just a little more adventurous going forward when in possession and I certainly don't think that is too much to ask.
Football is a Sport, a competition between teams. It’s about getting results, trying to win and not to lose (note lose, not loose).If it was all about results we would all support Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea etc. though wouldn't we?
If it’s entertainment you’re after, go to the Theatre, Cinema or watch TV.
Believe it or not, sometimes the ball has to go sideways or backwards if there isn’t a forward pass available. It’s about keeping possession, switching play, looking for and exploiting the gaps.
Face it, Mel was taking us down to the Championship until Downing & Kiely dragged us away from the inevitable relegation.
The results against Vile, Cardiff and Spurs last season were Kamikaze football and utterly embarrassing. If that was entertainment, give me dull any day of the week.
I think someone said the other day about Irvine reminding him of wolves under McCarthy how he seems to prefer British players when maybe some of the foriegn players who can't get a look in have more skill and flair, even though hes been here a short time it did make me worry abit
And another point if Irvine is supposed to be this amazing coach can anybody really say any of our players have improved since he's been working his 'magic'? And before people say Dawson he may look ok next to Lescott but without him I would argue he's gone backwards.
And another point if Irvine is supposed to be this amazing coach can anybody really say any of our players have improved since he's been working his 'magic'? And before people say Dawson he may look ok next to Lescott but without him I would argue he's gone backwards.
And another point if Irvine is supposed to be this amazing coach can anybody really say any of our players have improved since he's been working his 'magic'? And before people say Dawson he may look ok next to Lescott but without him I would argue he's gone backwards.
Dave Nugent and Michael Rikkets got called up for England and got on the pitch....I don't really think it's much to crow about is it.You suggested that none of our players have improved under Irvine. The whole team have more points over the last 11 games of last season and therefore as a group have improved. Dawson is clearly better but you dismiss him because that is down to Lescott (apparently). Berahino has scored more goals and got picked for England but has been dismissed because Michael Rikkets once got picked for England. :-X
but questioning his coaching just means you've not been reading the many many comments by pros out there about him.
Comments from pros can be misleading though because lets face it - everybody within football is highly rated. I've never yet hear anybody bad mouth another colleagues whether on the pitch or in management.
We've got a team of good/decent Premier League players who aren't going to improve further except for the young players. Berahino has been much better this season in performance and attitude and has mentioned how he enjoys working under Irvine. Morrison looks better than last season and Dawson has looked good but then again he's finally getting a run in the side so that helps as well as being Lescott's partner. Dawson wanted to leave before Irvine had a word with him so he deserves credit for that.was it possible for Morrison to poorer than last season, he was garbage last year.
I'm not dismissing Dawson I just don't think he has improved and our defence is awful particularly at home, we need to score 3 to win a game the way things are going. And I'm over the moon with Saido but take away his penaltys, which obviously still have to be scored would you say he has vastly improved over last seasons early promise? I don't want to get into a personal debate but I don't see a lot to be optimistic about, if Irvine got the job at Walsall every single member of this forum would have been shocked he had somehow got another manager/head coach job so lets not try and kid each other he's something he has proven over a long time he isn't.
I don't want to appear as if looking through rose tinted spectacles, like everything is as rosy as it can be because that's not the case. But some people, like VVV has said, will never accept Irvine, whether that's because he isn't a 'name' or whether that's because his past managerial record isn't the best.
Let's face it though, in life we've all made mistakes and it's about how you learn and move forward that matters. People deserve a second chance and the board felt Irvine was the right man. They know better than we do, it's their job to, and as much as people won't like to hear it, us fans only know so much and in-turn can only comment on so much. Reality is a lot different to 'what fans think is best'.
Also had we appointed a manager with a proven track record, it's not to say he would be doing the job as well as Alan is currently. Now I'm not in the 'Irvine Out' camp nor am I one that thinks he is the new messiah, but we're still in the 'back him as much as we can' phase, and let's see what happens.
In terms of players improvement, this squad is performing well. Yes we've slipped up, but this is football, and we're West Bromwich Albion, we'll play badly and lose sometimes, as will other teams when we praise ours for beating them.
We must be a dream for scouts to fill reports in for, we all know the team for the next 27 games unless injury or suspension forces a change...it's going to be a long boring winter! But I will say i don't miss any games home or away and use this forum to let off steam not in the ground and I even get tickets in the singing section for away games to get behind the team.
I was so excited when we bought in some genuine flair players with excellent reports from abroad in Blanco, Gamboa, Ideye and Varela. The main reason I don't want Irvine as manager is his refusal to play these players. Such a huge waste. For me, football is all about seeing these kinds of players playing for Albion in the stripes. If you watch foreign football like I do you'll know just how good those four players can be. Yet Irvine picks the likes of Chris Baird ahead of them. I'm done with being passionate about the Albion as long as these decisions are being made. It's too frustrating and there's nothing I can do to change it.And foreign football and players do not necessarily fit the Premiership. Plenty of examples of players being world beaters abroad but not succeeding here.
Utterly and totally boring football the sooner he's gone the better
Just because someones foreign doesn't mean they're any good. More often than not our foreign signings are actually pretty terrible.
Varela aside (who's been injured) none of those really showed they deserved to be in the side (or are really actually any good) when they've played.
Utterly and totally boring football the sooner he's gone the better
Just because someones foreign doesn't mean they're any good. More often than not our foreign signings are actually pretty terrible.I watch a lot of foreign football and those four players are very talented (Blanco, Ideye, Gamboa and Varela). I was so excited when they signed and that's why it's so frustrating for me to see their talent wasted. It's amazing to think that one man can stand in the way of talented players getting their chance at our club.
Varela aside (who's been injured) none of those really showed they deserved to be in the side (or are really actually any good) when they've played.
I for one sat there against Newcastle wondering what I was doing sitting there watching that dross Alan Irvine and his 3 merry men are serving us to watch . boring and negative football .
I watch a lot of foreign football and those four players are very talented (Blanco, Ideye, Gamboa and Varela). I was so excited when they signed and that's why it's so frustrating for me to see their talent wasted. It's amazing to think that one man can stand in the way of talented players getting their chance at our club.
I can differentiate them from Davidson and Samaras who are also foreign signings who I know are unlikely to cut it.
Peace will only be concerned when we start averaging well under a point a game.can see the Villa game being the tipping point as i see no joy in next couple and thst would make 5 in a row. Lets be honest here Irvine has shown nothing to justify his appointment and is looking more and more devoid of deas with each passing game!! >:( >:(
As it stands - we're three points above the relegation zone with some winnable fixtures ahead. Anybody wanting Irvine sacked is going to be in for a bit of a wait yet.
can see the Villa game being the tipping point as i see no joy in next couple and thst would make 5 in a row. Lets be honest here Irvine has shown nothing to justify his appointment and is looking more and more devoid of deas with each passing game!! >:( >:(
I think the bloke is doing the best he can. He is a coach. He has only picked teams at League 1 level and failed at that. He is totally out of his depth.The truth as i see it !!
Personally I blame the moron who employed him. I can only assume it is Burton. If not then its Peace or Garlick again.
I said at the time. Most of us did. I cannot fathom the logic in hiring him.
The 'great coach' line that was trotted is horse s**t. Its time the club hired a quality coach with good top flight experience but also a backroom staff that doesnt include the stale Downing and to a lesser extent Kiely.
Sadly i fear the reason for his appointment may well be others wouldnt work within the parameters laid down by those on high :(
The parameters will have to change, it must soon dawn on Peace that the continental set up is now failing in the Premier League. Us and Tottenham are the only sides that employ it religiously if you will, and since they got rid of Redknob and we lost Hodgson both have gone steadily backwards.
Back to a manager with his own backroom staff is now a must I feel.
I think the bloke is doing the best he can. He is a coach. He has only picked teams at League 1 level and failed at that. He is totally out of his depth.Spot on. For what it's worth, it was Burton's choice.
Personally I blame the moron who employed him. I can only assume it is Burton. If not then its Peace or Garlick again.
I said at the time. Most of us did. I cannot fathom the logic in hiring him.
The 'great coach' line that was trotted is horse s**t. Its time the club hired a quality coach with good top flight experience but also a backroom staff that doesnt include the stale Downing and to a lesser extent Kiely.
Steve Madeley from the Express and Star on twitter "Irvine isn't a fool. He knows his side need an attacking spark. If he thought Blanco, Samaras, Ideye etc could provide it, they'd play. #wba"Wait til Irvine is sacked and Blanco, Ideye, Gamboa and Varela get their chance. There's quality there, trust me (fwiw, I thought the Sinclair signing was poor at the time). Equally, you could argue the reverse by saying the same thing about Dorrans under Clarke who then had a revival when Mel came in. Dorrans wasn't doing anything wrong, Clarke just had a blind spot to him.
I remember thinking why Sinclair wasn't getting in the team last season then all became clear. I think these players are getting hyped up because they are foreign and we've hardly seen them play so they seem more fresh then the same old players like Brunt and Morrison but it seems to me that they just aren't good enough at the moment. Gamboa played in Norway last season with Rosenborg and the Premier League is a massive step up for him. I don't think Ideye played much for Kiev last season and he wasn't even in Nigeria's world cup squad. I believe both Cardiff, Fulham and Norwich spent £10million on strikers last season who all had a good pedigree but turned out useless. Blanco played in the Ukrainian league and looked extremely lightweight against Bournemouth in the cup, Samaras was a bit part player for Celtic. I really hope they turn out to be great players for us but I can't see why they are getting hyped up like they will make a big difference. Varela is the one who I feel will make a difference and he's just come back from an injury and wasn't fit when joining us.
Wait til Irvine is sacked and Blanco, Ideye, Gamboa and Varela get their chance. There's quality there, trust me (fwiw, I thought the Sinclair signing was poor at the time). Equally, you could argue the reverse by saying the same thing about Dorrans under Clarke who then had a revival when Mel came in. Dorrans wasn't doing anything wrong, Clarke just had a blind spot to him.
If those four players don't get their chance here, they'll show their quality at other clubs and it will be our loss. All four had consistently excellent reports from a number of clubs bigger than ours. It's testament to our recruitment team that we managed to snap then up in the first place.
Amazing that one man (Irvine) stands in the way of us getting to see four talented players. Also amazed that you seem to rate his judgement so highly.
Wait til Irvine is sacked and Blanco, Ideye, Gamboa and Varela get their chance. There's quality there, trust me (fwiw, I thought the Sinclair signing was poor at the time). Equally, you could argue the reverse by saying the same thing about Dorrans under Clarke who then had a revival when Mel came in. Dorrans wasn't doing anything wrong, Clarke just had a blind spot to him.
If those four players don't get their chance here, they'll show their quality at other clubs and it will be our loss. All four had consistently excellent reports from a number of clubs bigger than ours. It's testament to our recruitment team that we managed to snap then up in the first place.
Amazing that one man (Irvine) stands in the way of us getting to see four talented players. Also amazed that you seem to rate his judgement so highly.
Those players may be talented players, but they are no use play Irvine type football, and that is why he doesn't play them.
1 or 2 of these players who people are saying are not good enough looked pretty good in the World Cup. Gamboa looked great in a Costa Rica side that did very well. The problem is that we have a coaching team that is too scared to give these players a chance to find their feet in the Premier League. Cameo appearances won't do it and some of them don't even make the bench regularly.It was inevitable as soon as peace chose to side with the players and not with Mel (by sacking him and keeping downing and Kiely) that there would be a continuation of the same old British clique being favoured over our newer, exciting signings, and that the players' apathy would continue. Sticking with Mel was our only hope of inducing an effective culture change and seeing any kind of footballing ambition. By appointing Irvine, it reinforced the players' view that they could perform at any level and continue to be picked with the support of their mates downing and Kiely (as irvine is really only one step better than a "yes-man").
Sorry, but I never wanted Irvine and his continuing presence (along with Downing) is strangling the club, because the football is awful to watch and not even effective. We've now conceded 2 goals in 6 of our last 7 games, so playing defensively just isn't working. I despaired at the appointment of Irvine and I'm despairing just as much at the outcome of it, which no-one needed to be a genius to predict.
As far as "Steve Madeley from the Express and Star on twitter 'Irvine isn't a fool. He knows his side need an attacking spark. If he thought Blanco, Samaras, Ideye etc could provide it, they'd play'" is concerned, it's depressing beyond words whichever way you look at it.
I hope you are right that they are quality players. Irvine sees them on the training pitch nearly every day, If he thinks they are good enough to be in the team surely he'll play them because his job depends on it. Van Wolfswinkel was highly rated and was a flop at Norwich for example. Plenty of foreign players turn out to be flops in the Premier League while some will turn out to be quality players. Let's hope its the latter for us.The problem is I think he doesn't trust them enough defensively. Although there's some truth in that fear (with the likes of Gamboa, Blanco and Varela), there's a balance to be had and Irvine sways way too far on the defensive side. Sometimes you have to take some risks to get a reward and I fear he is just too cautious.
Is it irvines fault that most of our signings were cheap or free unproven players no. Is it irvines fault most of last years signings still with us were poor no. But what is irvines fault is he had enough time to see what was needed to improve us as a attacking threat and we didn't solve that. He won't be here long and hopefully the likes of Davidson,samaras,blanco,brown,anichebe,yacob,Baird follow him. He can also take downing and burton with him.
Somebody on twitter pointed out that his comments in his pre-match interview were disingenuous.
Said if we 'go to sit back' then we'll ultimately be unpicked. And yet he then goes and choses a defensive, narrow, team selection which was set up to do nothing but sit back.
I think the guy is nice, I really do. A gentleman. But he is not right for this club.
JP must have had some fears else he wouldn't have awarded only a 1 year rolling contract.
Tim Sherwood is still free. Look at what he did with Spurs, and how Poch is struggling with same (arguably better) squad - says something for TS imo.
I'm sadly coming to agree with you and others, but that isn't to say that those who never gave the guy a chance are right. He should get till Christmas I think, we're ok league wise so far.
But I'm 100% against Sherwood, the guy is just a loud mouth and has said he isn't that focused on tactics and strategy. He's simply not good and I wouldn't want him here breeding discontent.
Somebody on twitter pointed out that his comments in his pre-match interview were disingenuous.A team with Sess and Berahino in is not one set up to sit back but don't let facts spoil your rant. ;-)
Said if we 'go to sit back' then we'll ultimately be unpicked. And yet he then goes and choses a defensive, narrow, team selection which was set up to do nothing but sit back.
I think the guy is nice, I really do. A gentleman. But he is not right for this club.
JP must have had some fears else he wouldn't have awarded only a 1 year rolling contract.
Tim Sherwood is still free. Look at what he did with Spurs, and how Poch is struggling with same (arguably better) squad - says something for TS imo.
A team with Sess and Berahino in is not one set up to sit back but don't let facts spoil your rant. ;-)
Tim Sherwood still being free could be an indication of his ability.
A team with Sess and Berahino in is not one set up to sit back but don't let facts spoil your rant. ;-)Two out out of eleven players?! Are you serious?
Tim Sherwood still being free could be an indication of his ability.
Two out out of eleven players?! Are you serious?
Agree that Sherwood isn't the answer. Which makes things even more worrying considering he was the other "outstanding candidate" ???
Yep, the focus is 85% on defence to 15% on attack. Sess is only half an attacking player in Irvine's system. And that explains why the likes of Varela and Blanco will not have much joy under AI, the system is far too restrictive.
Ive said it before Sess plays more of the game has a attacking midfielder than playing just behind SB, to many time SB is all alone up front with no one to play off or on to.4411 my backside its more like 451
Two out out of eleven players?! Are you serious?The suggestion was that we only set up to defend. Not true.
Agree that Sherwood isn't the answer. Which makes things even more worrying considering he was the other "outstanding candidate" ???
The suggestion was that we only set up to defend. Not true.
Why not Sherwood if he bought in his own backroom team in and we got rid of the two coach who have failed with the last 3 head coaches. At least Sherwood's football would be far more positive and attractive to watch than what we are seeing now. I dont care if he is a loud mouth you could consider Mouriniho a loud mouth so wouldn't you want him?
After watching the Palace game on TV the difference in there set up is startling they had wide attacking players, midfield driving forward, desire in the players and most important they entertained with a win, a far cry from the way AI has set the Albion in recent games defensive boring boring football. Instead of starting a defensive game a tactic AI always sets his team they took the fight to them and Entertainedmy exact thoughts when watching the palace game and thats a neil warnock team..we have got to be one of the worst footballing teams in the prem very predictable slow in midfield and boring to watch..shame when we could potentially have a quick attacking team but we dont set up to go and attack teams.
The suggestion was that we only set up to defend. Not true.
He even has Sessegnon back defending corners...
We quite clearly we're set up for a nil nil. And to defend only. He couldn't really drop sess or berahino so I don't get your defence of him.Nil nil would have been a great result against Chelsea. Remind me, who has taken a point off them at Stamford Bridge this season?
We are just three points off 19th spot. With Irvine persisting with his ultra negative tactics we will soon be occupying that position - and will stay there, or drop to the very bottom. What is JP playing at! He is presiding over our demise by giving such support to Irvine. It's time for Albion fans to demonstrate our displeasure. :-X
The mind boggles at some of these posts from a seemingly intelligent person, I give VVV more credit than trolling but it is clear for anyone to see that Irvine's raison d'etre tactically is to contain, frustrate and defend. It's geared around the oppositions strengths and not our own. He even has Sessegnon back defending corners...Away at Chelsea most managers aim to contain, frustrate and defend, and to be critical of Irvine for attempting it is ridiculous. To suggest we only set out to get a nil nil draw is also false because we started with two counter attacking players up front and had three strikers on the bench, who had we been able to maintain a clean sheet (granted highly optimistic against a great Chelsea side) or at least been in touch towards the latter part of the game could have been introduced. Going two nil down with one arguably offside and the other given away to easily (Sess failing to get back and mark his player ;)) and having Yacob sent off didn't allow that to happen.
The mind boggles at some of these posts from a seemingly intelligent person, I give VVV more credit than trolling but it is clear for anyone to see that Irvine's raison d'etre tactically is to contain, frustrate and defend. It's geared around the oppositions strengths and not our own. He even has Sessegnon back defending corners...What do you believe are our strengths that we are not playing to?
Nil nil would have been a great result against Chelsea. Remind me, who has taken a point off them at Stamford Bridge this season?
Retaining possession (as opposed to Foster giving the ball back to the opposition at every opportunity).There may be one or two question marks about some of his defending but Dawson's use of the ball has been much better than any of our other centre backs of the last couple of years.
Incisive quick passing from the likes of Brunt, Morrison and Sessegnon (as opposed to Dorrans receiving the ball and turning it back to Wisdom ad infinitum)
Through balls from midfield for Berahino to run in behind (as opposed to 5 passes round the deep static midfield then back to Dawson to lump into the channels for Berahino to chase)
That's with the woeful team selection. Imagine what he could ask them to do if he picked the flair players...
Jose is a loud mouth and a bloody bad sport. I wouldn't be overly happy with him being in charge no. Because achieving is all well and good, but it's how you achieve that is equally important to me, a bad winner isn't something i'm aiming for.jose is one of the best managers i have ever seen, and he is a character,showman and personality, that is one of the things i hate about modern football no characters or personalities in the fame now. I think he is a breath of fresh air and i hope Chelsea win the league.
Sherwood however isn't 1% of Jose career wise and has stated he isn't overly concerned with tactics. How on earth can you have a head coach who isn't bothered by tactics?!!! He said something along the lines of he doesn't do formations. The players know where they are good, I'll leave it to their judgement! Madness!
If sherwood came he would be very vocal about wanting new players and divide the club, he's a young harry redknapp and he'd ruin us, or rather JP wouldn't allow it and it would all be a public mess.... No thanks from me!
There may be one or two question marks about some of his defending but Dawson's use of the ball has been much better than any of our other centre backs of the last couple of years.
Your mate Shane Long of course had the superb service of the likes of Reid, Olsson and G-Mac to feed from.
jose is one of the best managers i have ever seen, and he is a character,showman and personality, that is one of the things i hate about modern football no characters or personalities in the fame now. I think he is a breath of fresh air and i hope Chelsea win the league.
No characters at all really is there. Players are all robots and media trained. You know, like you said, you know, great bunch of lads, you know, to be fair, you know, at the end of the day, you know, yeah no i mean, you know, worked hard, you know.spot on, all robots no fun or laughs during interviews all boring!!
Set up to defend yet no one on the post at corners.A person on the post would most likely have prevented Hazard's goal.Sess doing his job and marking Hazard would most likely have prevented his goal.
We didn't get a nil nil though and never we're going to. We didn't set foot in their area, we needed to, we could have nicked a couple like we did last year. No urgency when on the ball. Time wasting at 2 nil down. Disgusting.And this is why Irvine (or anyone for that matter) stands little chance of succeeding here. Some of our fans appear to have little concept of reality. I agree, we were never going to get a nil nil, nothing to do with Irvine being in charge but more the current gulf between the two clubs.
And this is why Irvine (or anyone for that matter) stands little chance of succeeding here. Some of our fans appear to have little concept of reality. I agree, we were never going to get a nil nil, nothing to do with Irvine being in charge but more the current gulf between the two clubs.
If your happy to roll over against bigger clubs then fair play. We've proved before that with a bit of urgency on the counter we can get results.Realistic enough to accept defeat against a club that are currently showing the form to win the league at a canter.
There may be one or two question marks about some of his defending but Dawson's use of the ball has been much better than any of our other centre backs of the last couple of years.
Your mate Shane Long of course had the superb service of the likes of Reid, Olsson and G-Mac to feed from.
After watching the Palace game on TV the difference in there set up is startling they had wide attacking players, midfield driving forward, desire in the players and most important they entertained with a win, a far cry from the way AI has set the Albion in recent games defensive boring boring football. Instead of starting a defensive game a tactic AI always sets his team they took the fight to them and Entertained
And this is why Irvine (or anyone for that matter) stands little chance of succeeding here. Some of our fans appear to have little concept of reality. I agree, we were never going to get a nil nil, nothing to do with Irvine being in charge but more the current gulf between the two clubs.What does our concept of reality have to do with him being a success? He will not be judged on our opinion, but on results, therefore if he is any good he will succeed, if not he won't. That is reality.
Realistic enough to accept defeat against a club that are currently showing the form to win the league at a canter.
Chelsea have gone 12 games unbeaten at the start of the season, a club record, and are already 7 points clear of their nearest rivals. We set up to try and contain them and counter attack. An arguably dubious offside decision and a sending off put pay to that and Chelsea showed the quality they really are.
Haven't lost much sleep over the result.
He's certainly making me eat my words.
Long may it continue!
Ideal replacement looks to be Eddie Howe
Ideal replacement looks to be Eddie HoweIs his time at Burnley classed a success?
Is his time at Burnley classed a success?
Wouldnt get rid of him just yet but we are now in the festive period games coming thick and fast and i dont want to see that muppet in charge of our team again until a new man is appointed.Varela has had an operation and been injured and given the only game time available to him. Berahino has been playing instead of Brown and has gotten a call up from England because of it, what other coach do you expect would have dropped him for Brown?
Unfortunately the cons are starting to outway the pros for me personally not only do we look stale but we have players who arent getting a chance valera and brown spring to mind who could potentially give us the spark we need. Why buy a striker for 10 million and not play him seems stupid i know it wasnt Irvine and he clearly doesnt rate him so the fingers have to point at our system and current set up.
We also have some very worrying stats that are starting to creep up on us, Five goals from open play and one player getting more than a single goal so far this season is frankly little bit disturbing.
Varela has had an operation and been injured and given the only game time available to him. Berahino has been playing instead of Brown and has gotten a call up from England because of it, what other coach do you expect would have dropped him for Brown?
Goal stats are disturbing but similar to those for teams in similar positions as ourselves. (Villa have scored 5 all season!)
We are doing as well as expected and Peace will not sack Irvine because of that.
Personally I don't know who the answer is, but based on current showings Howe is doing well. Played us off the park in the cup, a team full of energy which was a huge contrast to ours. Doing well in the league too. Not looked much further into his career, but it his record on face value seems better than Irvines anyway in terms of win %.Done well in tiers 3 and 4 with Bournemouth, took Burnley backwards in tier 2 and is doing well back with Bournemouth at the moment.
Was valera injured saturday ?.Having recently played in the behind closed doors friendly I would find it difficult to believe he is still injured. As that appears to have been his only "competitive" football in a couple of months I would imagine his "fitness" to play against arguably the best team in the Premier League might have been in question? The only team that are currently in better form in the Premier League are Newcastle.
Having recently played in the behind closed doors friendly I would find it difficult to believe he is still injured. As that appears to have been his only "competitive" football in a couple of months I would imagine his "fitness" to play against arguably the best team in the Premier League might have been in question? The only team that are currently in better form in the Premier League are Newcastle.And not so long ago fans were calling for him to be sacked, I bet those same fans are saying thank god we didn't sack him.
And not so long ago fans were calling for him to be sacked, I bet those same fans are saying thank god we didn't sack him.
Having recently played in the behind closed doors friendly I would find it difficult to believe he is still injured. As that appears to have been his only "competitive" football in a couple of months I would imagine his "fitness" to play against arguably the best team in the Premier League might have been in question? The only team that are currently in better form in the Premier League are Newcastle.
Problem being can you see us winning 6 in a row? I certainly can'tCould the Newcastle fans who were calling for him to be sacked is the question. I have always said that I didn't want Irvine as Coach or whatever his official role is, but as long as he is here he will get my backing as have many other managers and there have been a lot worse than Irvine at The Hawthorns.
I'm not going to judge Irvine on matches against teams like Chelsea. We are never likely to get a result - especially as the officials always help them.
However, with nothing to lose you'd have expected an opportunity to give game time to Ideye, Blanco or Varela. If they are not fit enough after 4 months then they're not being coached properly. (Or maybe lack of match time means they're not match fit?) Especially when the international break was seen as an opportunity to get these players fit, and they played (and made an impact) in a friendly game during that time... and this was the 1st game afterwards.
Could the Newcastle fans who were calling for him to be sacked is the question. I have always said that I didn't want Irvine as Coach or whatever his official role is, but as long as he is here he will get my backing as have many other managers and there have been a lot worse than Irvine at The Hawthorns.
Realistic enough to accept defeat against a club that are currently showing the form to win the league at a canter.
Chelsea have gone 12 games unbeaten at the start of the season, a club record, and are already 7 points clear of their nearest rivals. We set up to try and contain them and counter attack. An arguably dubious offside decision and a sending off put pay to that and Chelsea showed the quality they really are.
Haven't lost much sleep over the result.
he's on a par with Saunders mate to be fair
Bloke is a complete waste of time and effort.I've already got an entry on that day...'gonner be flying off to Spain' 8)
He's clueless. His pathetic explanations and selections are past a joke.
Get December 15th in your diary....#gonner
Bloke is a complete waste of time and effort.
He's clueless. His pathetic explanations and selections are past a joke.
Get December 15th in your diary....#gonner
The only way AI would be sacked this season is if we go on a terrible run of form, or we are in the bottom 3 come end of January.I agree with this. As bad as we've been this season, we're still 13th which probably says more about the other clubs than ourselves. The only way he will go is if we're in the bottom 3 for over a month or so, sadly this could be at the end of the season when we have some nasty fixtures bunched together.
If we are outside the relegation places, AI will be head coach for the remainder of the season.
Can you explain Baird or Yacob's selection then?
Bottom three looms by the time we play the vile.lets hope this clueless tactically inept best head coach has been given the boot by qpr
Like I have said on a different post, if the above 4 players are still not getting game time after the next 3 games, then surely serious questions need to be asked of AI.
Bottom three looms by the time we play the vile.lets hope this clueless tactically inept best head coach has been given the boot by qprCurrent form guide has us above nearly all the teams below us in the table, so what makes you think that they will improve and we will not?
Bottom three looms by the time we play the vile.lets hope this clueless tactically inept best head coach has been given the boot by qprHarry Redknapp was being touted as the next England manager, although I personally do agree that he is clueless and tactically inept.
I am not Alan Irvine but I suspect something along the lines of Morrison was recovering from illness and playing mid-week so used the opportunity to put someone different in. Because the plan was to contain it was likely to be either Yacob or Mulumbu and as Mulumbu's recent form for the Albion had not been good, he had only returned from International duty mid week and is going to be lost for the Africa Nations Cup it was an opportunity to give Yacob a run out.and there lies the total aspirations of Irvines non attacking mentality by picking baird ahead of gamboa. will say it now bye bye and good riddance this job was above him and its just a matter of time before its proved, back to square one and another drawn out saga where we will be told theres not many candidates but take 6-8 weeks over the next appointment.
Poco was injured, options are Gamboa or Baird. Baird got the nod.
I am not Alan Irvine but I suspect something along the lines of Morrison was recovering from illness and playing mid-week so used the opportunity to put someone different in. Because the plan was to contain it was likely to be either Yacob or Mulumbu and as Mulumbu's recent form for the Albion had not been good, he had only returned from International duty mid week and is going to be lost for the Africa Nations Cup it was an opportunity to give Yacob a run out.
Poco was injured, options are Gamboa or Baird. Baird got the nod.
We made no effort to attack even with 11. I'd rather have a go at teams than what happened on Saturday. I don't get your constant love in with irvine?Constant love in? Just putting out a reasonable and rational argument against opinion based conjecture :-*
and there lies the total aspirations of Irvines non attacking mentality by picking baird ahead of gamboa. will say it now bye bye and good riddance this job was above him and its just a matter of time before its proved, back to square one and another drawn out saga where we will be told theres not many candidates but take 6-8 weeks over the next appointment.Sacking the bloke for picking a defender against Chelsea, I am glad you are not my boss!
I could understand picking Yacob.
Poco was injured, the choices at left back were Wisdom, Davidson, Lescott, Brunt or Baird. Or change formation and play with Brunt as a wing back and 3 CBs? I don't think Baird was the correct option - against Chelsea I'd have tried 3 CBs.
Sacking the bloke for picking a defender against Chelsea, I am glad you are not my boss!but he picked the poorer of the two and a more defensive one, its his nature to be defensive minded and it ends up with us having less attacking threat. we had a go at Chelsea last season and was unlucky not to get 3 points, we lost Saturday before a ball was kicked.
Same old, same old.I think we as a club are at the stage that we hope to survive each year AND see some attractive football , i don't think that's asking the world.Being honest i don't think Mel was the right choice nor Irvine to provide these things. I hope come Saturday Irvine makes some changes and we see some decent football that we have seen in spells so far.
It's like a cycle, only it just seems to get shorter and shorter.
Albion appoint a Head Coach - Albion fans eventually deem him unsuccessful - Albion fans want him out and replaced - New Head Coach appointed - Repeat.
I do actually get some of the reasons why Irvine has his dissenters, but I feel it is somewhat over the top. And what good does it do, really? Peace is strong willed and will only sack his man when he feels the time is right. Until then it won't do any harm to support Irvine. He has no agenda, he wants what we want, to be part of a successful football club.
but he picked the poorer of the two and a more defensive one, its his nature to be defensive minded and it ends up with us having less attacking threat. we had a go at Chelsea last season and was unlucky not to get 3 points, we lost Saturday before a ball was kicked.In your opinion based on watching them play how many minutes of football?
I can just about handle the negative tactics if we are picking up points , at times we have played some decent football so I'm always baffled when the hoof ball starts especially if it's to Anichebe who isn't exactly mobile.
The biggest question for me at the moment is hardly using the Summer signings , if it was one player not fitting in i could accept that but when you see Ideye , Gamboa , Samaras and Blanco sitting on the bench and sometimes not even that it set alarms ringing personally . How can we say any of them are not good enough , don't fit in , don't suit the league etc ...when at best they get 15 minutes or flung together with a load of strangers away in the cup at Bournemouth ? It seems Irvine is big on fitness well how will they ever get match fit if they aren't given a chance ?
I can't help but feeling we have gone back to jobs for the boys by picking the same side week after week ....it's dull and paying the amount we do i personally hope for a bit more for my time and money.
I want Irvine to do well as it means the team will too but serving up dull football and ignoring the other options he has will only lead to a quick exit. I hope I'm wrong but Irvine looked like a rabbit in the headlights pre match at Chelsea shaking hands with Jose , just seems out of his depth at the minute and that zip the players had looks to be gone too.
The fact is we can not say whether they are any good but possibly the people who work with them every day should have a better idea. I hope it is just a case of them settling in to a culture change but perhaps it might just be that they are no better than we have already got? Irvine has shown he will make changes, the back four, Berahino and the dropping of Mulumbu are testament of that. Would we want him to make changes to satisfy the curiosity of the support but ultimately the detriment of the team? Irvine has come out and used the phrase unfit but he can hardly come out and say poop!
We cannot possibly play any worse.We can clearly be worse, we could be Villa ;) (or any of the other 6 teams below us)
I notice you asked me a question last night then when I answered you didn't say anything so I assume you agreed with me?
The fact is we can not say whether they are any good but possibly the people who work with them every day should have a better idea. I hope it is just a case of them settling in to a culture change but perhaps it might just be that they are no better than we have already got? Irvine has shown he will make changes, the back four, Berahino and the dropping of Mulumbu are testament of that. Would we want him to make changes to satisfy the curiosity of the support but ultimately the detriment of the team? Irvine has come out and used the phrase unfit but he can hardly come out and say poop!If the changes increase our attacking and prove to be a bit more pleasing on the eye then yes i would want him to make those changes in all honesty . You say the fact is but other facts are Gamboa had a great World Cup and really caught the eye (and played well at Liverpool) , Ideye has a good scoring record elsewhere , Samaras i was never sure on but he has scored goals at Celtic and in big European nights ...Blanco i admit i know little about . I find it hard to believe at least some of those four could offer less than what we already have and at the very least should have had more time on the pitch by now . I really rate Varela and couldn't believe it when he signed , the injury has been unlucky on Irvine but deep down i suspect Varela isn't Irvine's sort of player so no doubt we will get 5 mins off the bench here and there if we are chasing a game.
Retaining possession (as opposed to Foster giving the ball back to the opposition at every opportunity).I assume you mean this one.
Incisive quick passing from the likes of Brunt, Morrison and Sessegnon (as opposed to Dorrans receiving the ball and turning it back to Wisdom ad infinitum)
Through balls from midfield for Berahino to run in behind (as opposed to 5 passes round the deep static midfield then back to Dawson to lump into the channels for Berahino to chase)
That's with the woeful team selection. Imagine what he could ask them to do if he picked the flair players...
If the changes increase our attacking and prove to be a bit more pleasing on the eye then yes i would want him to make those changes in all honesty . You say the fact is but other facts are Gamboa had a great World Cup and really caught the eye (and played well at Liverpool) , Ideye has a good scoring record elsewhere , Samaras i was never sure on but he has scored goals at Celtic and in big European nights ...Blanco i admit i know little about . I find it hard to believe at least some of those four could offer less than what we already have and at the very least should have had more time on the pitch by now . I really rate Varela and couldn't believe it when he signed , the injury has been unlucky on Irvine but deep down i suspect Varela isn't Irvine's sort of player so no doubt we will get 5 mins off the bench here and there if we are chasing a game.Exactly, if the changes increase our attacking and prove to be more pleasing on the eye and get results (the bit you missed) then we would all want to see it, as would Irvine no doubt If we played more attractive football but were currently in the bottom three do you not believe this place would be in meltdown?
Exactly, if the changes increase our attacking and prove to be more pleasing on the eye and get results (the bit you missed) then we would all want to see it, as would Irvine no doubt If we played more attractive football but were currently in the bottom three do you not believe this place would be in meltdown?Given the love for Mowbray on here then no ;D , to be honest there's nothing to lose attacking wise . I have the same view on Saido as you , Sess is hit and miss and 1 goal in 18 isn't enough ...we then have Dorrans who has slipped a bit lately plus Brunt not much better but always has that one set piece in his locker or moment of class. Neither of the wide player get forward enough now and we have become too easy to defend against lately.
Given the love for Mowbray on here then no ;D , to be honest there's nothing to lose attacking wise . I have the same view on Saido as you , Sess is hit and miss and 1 goal in 18 isn't enough ...we then have Dorrans who has slipped a bit lately plus Brunt not much better but always has that one set piece in his locker or moment of class. Neither of the wide player get forward enough now and we have become too easy to defend against lately.The form of the teams around us would suggest differently but they could improve, as could we. If it was simple the bookies would be very poor! (TM was given plenty of leniency for having previously got us promoted, do you think AI would be afforded such respect?)
As i said in my first post today it is about results mainly and i can just about accept that but i refuse to believe this squad can't both entertain and pick up points better than this ...it's not as if we have just been promoted to this division.
All in all Imo if we carry on playing like this then we will slowly slip into the bottom three , conceding goals and not looking like scoring ....relegation.
I really worry when the likes of Baird start over any kind of attacking player.
The form of the teams around us would suggest differently but they could improve, as could we. If it was simple the bookies would be very poor! (TM was given plenty of leniency for having previously got us promoted, do you think AI would be afforded such respect?)No , the only thing on Irvine's side is he appears to have been JP's choice or part choice (i suspect Burton had a big say) . JP had his fingers burnt by not sacking Mowbray in the Jan of the relegation season....i don't think he would make that mistake again (he didn't with RDM) especially after admitting his wrongs last season and the buck stops with him etc .
I still believe Varela will have a significant impact on our season, not so sure of anyone else.
No , the only thing on Irvine's side is he appears to have been JP's choice or part choice (i suspect Burton had a big say) . JP had his fingers burnt by not sacking Mowbray in the Jan of the relegation season....i don't think he would make that mistake again (he didn't with RDM) especially after admitting his wrongs last season and the buck stops with him etc .I was on about the fans still supporting TM even with poor results more so than JP. JP will not sack, in my opinon, Irvine on the basis of our position and form at the minute.
I have high hopes for Varela but even then we are banking on one player on the back of known injuries when frankly we should be using or at least trying to use other options.
I was on about the fans still supporting TM even with poor results more so than JP. JP will not sack, in my opinon, Irvine on the basis of our position and form at the minute.Oh got you ....I actually think Irvine hasn't had enough respect to start with but at the same time he hasn't helped himself at times . All still in his hands , i believe the tools are there and i hope he does get us going and attacking better . Good debating with you. :)
It is not a criticism of Dawson, it is a criticism of the way we play?Fair enough - the mention of Long is relevant ......it was almost standard practise under Roy and Clarke playing away against the big boys....Shane Long was isolated and chasing aimless long balls a lot of the time. Main point is that it's not just AI's management ....in fact I would say we've done it a lot less under him.
Fair enough - the mention of Long is relevant ......it was almost standard practise under Roy and Clarke playing away against the big boys....Shane Long was isolated and chasing aimless long balls a lot of the time. Main point is that it's not just AI's management ....in fact I would say we've done it a lot less under him.
Could the Newcastle fans who were calling for him to be sacked is the question. I have always said that I didn't want Irvine as Coach or whatever his official role is, but as long as he is here he will get my backing as have many other managers and there have been a lot worse than Irvine at The Hawthorns.
we the fans have never sang Alan Irvine,s name and seeing as still singing the pepe mel song shows there is no respect for him or peace inside the ground .
You sure about that? I've heard his name being sung towards the back of the smethwick on a few occasions.And at Leicester.
That was Longs game, chasing downn the channels because the ball stuck to him about once in every ten attempts when played in to his body or feet. Has no relevance, the argument when Long was here was that Odemwingie should have been up front.Long likes quality balls down the channels not the stuff he was invariably served up especially away from home. Anyway this is the Alan Irvine thread...I just don't agree that you can pin the aimless long ball tag on him as he's using it less than his two predecessors.
And at Leicester.at the hawthorns ? not that I can hear
at the hawthorns ? not that I can hearThe Alan 'F***ing' Irvine chant is sung regular, whether it is in support of him is for you to decide.
The Alan 'F***ing' Irvine chant is sung regular, whether it is in support of him is for you to decide.
there was nothing in his record for supporters for fans to grab hold of and respect. Respect has to be earned and at this level he has literally done nothing as the man in charge to be respected for. Not totally his fault it was imo a non sensical appointment from the powers that be that has never been satisfactorily explained!!! >:( >:(
Respect has got to be earned, but someone also has to be given the chance to earn that respect. So many big managers of today struggled in their first, second and even third appointments before getting things right and being successful. I have this feeling that some people will not be happy until Irvine is gone, whatever the reasons are for that.We are supportive in that we spend thousands to watch them. If he served up some decent football, I'm pretty sure his name would be shouted from the rooftops, unfortunately what we are seeing at the moment makes it a struggle to stay awake, let alone chant his name.
It's a shame, as a fan base, regardless of personal opinions, I always thought we were quite 'supportive', however we're just like everyone else.
Respect has got to be earned, but someone also has to be given the chance to earn that respect. So many big managers of today struggled in their first, second and even third appointments before getting things right and being successful. I have this feeling that some people will not be happy until Irvine is gone, whatever the reasons are for that.
It's a shame, as a fan base, regardless of personal opinions, I always thought we were quite 'supportive', however we're just like everyone else.
we the fans have never sang Alan Irvine,s name and seeing as still singing the pepe mel song shows there is no respect for him or peace inside the ground .
We are supportive in that we spend thousands to watch them. If he served up some decent football, I'm pretty sure his name would be shouted from the rooftops, unfortunately what we are seeing at the moment makes it a struggle to stay awake, let alone chant his name.
I think it grossly unfair to lambast our fanbase in this way and label us as unsupportive. I agree that some may be over zealous and the disrespectful singing on matchday is disgraceful, but that is from a tiny minority.
He is paid to entertain, we pay to be entertained, his obligation is to us not the other way around.
I may be totally wrong but when reading through Steve Madleys twitter profile last night i got a vibe from his tweets talking about Irvine that if we lose by considerable margin without any fight in us this weekend he could be gone. Like i say i may be completely wrong.Any chance of posting those....i can't see them mate.
In all fairness i know i have defended him and i continued to do so after the Chelsea game but i don't see why we signed the likes of Blanco, Ideye and Gamboa if we arent going to play them or give them a fair crack of the whip. We would be much more entertaining to watch with those three in the side id bet my house on that for sure.The simple fact is he doesn't fancy Ideye at, all he came out in the press stating he had never seen him play when we first got him and he has always distanced himself from the signing.
If we lose to both arsenal and west ham (which is unfortunately what I'm expecting to happen) then do we expect him to still be our head coach?
If we lose to both arsenal and west ham (which is unfortunately what I'm expecting to happen) then do we expect him to still be our head coach?
you mean the 4 of them ? I agree we need shaking up with new ideas sorry but someone like pulis who will make them work and run all day long .
If we lose to both arsenal and west ham (which is unfortunately what I'm expecting to happen) then do we expect him to still be our head coach?
JP must be sharpening the axe. The sooner the better and get this very negative coach out of our club along with the two coaches who have failed in the past. His football is not the Albion way.Peace would have known full well what brand of football Irvine was likely to serve up before he appointed him. Unfortunately, I don't foresee any axe sharpening taking place until we fall into the bottom 3 and are showing few signs of getting out of it.
Why can't he just wake up!!
This is his last chance of making it as a manager, lets face it if we sack him no-one else is going to take him.
If I were in that position I would be going all out to either succeed or go down in a blaze of glory, not conceding without a fight trying to stick to conservative, outdated beliefs.
Come on Alan it's Sh!t or Bust time, get some new faces in and give it a real go. Forget about red zones and optimum levels and all that tut and go with your gut instinct!
We have the players to more than survive in this division, even if they don't tick all his boxes or finish on top of the spreadsheet, just take a chance!
There is not a chance he's going anytime soon. He'll probably get the season regardless but we're not going to be that impatient, and nor should we. You'd never get anyone decent work in conditions were a couple of losses leads to you possibly getting the sack.
your so wrong about him getting the season if it don't improve mate
What you honestly think JP will sack him if we stay in and around 13th place?And is not 13th place an improvement on last year under Clarke and then Mel.
And is not 13th place an improvement on last year under Clarke and then Mel.
Exactly. If someone could have guaranteed us a 13th or place at the start of the season most us would have been pretty happy. If he keeps us in and around this position there is no chance whatsoever he will be sacked.
Exactly. If someone could have guaranteed us a 13th or place at the start of the season most us would have been pretty happy. If he keeps us in and around this position there is no chance whatsoever he will be sacked.This 13th argument really is a temporary smokescreen though. Most of us can see that we are playing awful, unimaginative, defensive, boring, tight, narrow "football", which is easy to play against. It's not even as if we are doing it well either. We have been lucky a couple of times, which has put us put us in a false position, but it's only a matter of time before we drop into the bottom three if we carry on with these tactics, certainly before the end of the year. It seems clear to me, he is hopelessly out of his depth, we shouldn't have appointed him in the first place, all the negativity is completely justified, and we should get rid asap. End of.
What you honestly think JP will sack him if we stay in and around 13th place?where did i say he would sack him if we were 13th, i said he wouldn't let it go all season if things don't improve
where did i say he would sack him if we were 13th, i said he wouldn't let it go all season if things don't improve
I've been to every game but two this year.well I sit in the brummie road and not once has alan irvines name been sang either good or bad , so whats the ali alioooo west brom fc from the blackcountry song then ? with Spanish lingo ? sang everygame
I've heard Alan Irvine's name sang on plenty of occasions - I haven't heard any chanting for Pepe Mel either.
Allez Allez oohhhhh is a rip off of Evertons song... And Allez is French.sounds spainsh to me and only started singing it when pepe mel become head coach . if its French I didn't no that .
Stop talking up the opposition, stop planning not to lose and start planning to win. I wouldnt care if we went down fighting and played and lost with passion.
This dross recently is a straight repeat of last year...and now we have our Anelka moment, albeit a few days earlier than last year and sit in almost an identical position...a nosedive of epic proportions would seem almost inevitable.
Results wise we need at least 4 points from the next three, if we played our butts off and got none id take that. as long as we pick a team that wants to have a go.
Burnley now have self -belief, as it stands our weekly team selection is most likely no better then two other clubs. If we dont change our tactics and start to play to win and grow a pair i fear this season there may not be a fairy godmother from Carrow Road to save us from oblivion.
Cant we get a blooming thrush and have it fly the length of the pitch like Colins Eagle last week....might raise a smile at least
well I sit in the brummie road and not once has alan irvines name been sang either good or bad , so whats the ali alioooo west brom fc from the blackcountry song then ? with Spanish lingo ? sang everygame
I'm dreading the next three games, were as likely to get 2 wins and a draw as we are to lose all three.
The pressure will really be on AI then.
Que the doom mongers!
Palace have something we lack...pace.
Could one of the mods add some points on to the poll please or start a new one.
Should AI be released
1-Straight away
2- give him to xmas
3- give him the whole season.
I dont see any point in looking for a replacement if ones not in place before the January window but feel free to amend as you see fit.
Thanks ;)
There's far too many things that can change for those things to go in the poll. For example; yes, I'd like him to be given time to get things right but there are 3 games in 8 days coming up and they could change everything. Pick up 0-1 points and perform like the last few games and I'd want him gone. Having said that if he gets just 1 win but makes some brave changes and the team plays attractively and I'd be happy for him to get more time.
My point - he has a big, BIG week coming up and it could shape our whole season.
Fair point,
So you're not against the add on's just that its 3 games to soon.
Me iv'e seen enough & any point's over the next however long would be just papering over the cracks.
You could very well be right. Like i say, if we accumulate at least 3 points over the next 3 games and he makes the changes we want to see (including performances), i'm happy to see him stay. I also think the chances of that happening are slim.He reminds me of a tortoise. Started off with his head tucked in as he was a bit scared, then we got a couple of results and he got brave and popped back out, then back in again as the performances dropped. Lose the next two and his head will be so far back it will be up his ar@e. ???
The football we play is becoming more and more withdrawn and it looks like we're playing with so much fear which makes no sense because there has been flashes of brilliance at times, rare i know but the one touch passing and non-willingness to hoof in some periods in some games has been great but then it just disappears. V Man U we always built from the back and Dawson, Lescott and Foster never went Long and it was a joy to watch, and then you get performances like the Newcastle game....
Having 3 games in a week may well do him a favour. He'll most likely be forced to utilise the whole squad to freshen things up I reckon.
Or he can use it as his excuse for his first team 11 not being able to prepare mentally and physcially due to short resting periods, and some of the new signings not being match ready to participate.Good point.
Good point.
Might take my boots to Hull just in case, better do some work though so I'm in the Red zone (or not, not sure if red is good or bad)!
It is a different game now to when the likes of McGrath were playing - plus centre back isn't a position where you have to get up and down the pitch too often.
But if Varela is 90% or 95% ready surely a 20 minute burst at the end of a match can help sharpen him up - he is an option we've been short of for too long.
Exactly. You are never going to get to 100% match fit without being given substitute appearances or not even making the bench.
It is a different game now to when the likes of McGrath were playing - plus centre back isn't a position where you have to get up and down the pitch too often.hard to see how he can get match fit without playing any matches. The friendly during the international break was supposed to put him right i though yet once again not even in the squad at Chelsea.
But if Varela is 90% or 95% ready surely a 20 minute burst at the end of a match can help sharpen him up - he is an option we've been short of for too long.
hard to see how he can get match fit without playing any matches. The friendly during the international break was supposed to put him right i though yet once again not even in the squad at Chelsea.Irvine admitted he was fit and available he just selected the 'right squad' and neither he or Blanco were in it. It was a tactical decision nothing to do with fitness, which suggests yet again that he is watching different games to us.
Until the Bournemouth game traveling to the Albion from Devon was always the highlight of my week but the boring football I am witnessing its a chore to even get on the bus now. If it don't improve starting from tomorrow and I expect at least 4 points from the next 2 homes games then the villa will be my last game until this Heath coach is ousted.sorry but that's the way I feel. Improve the football at home Irvine even if it means playing footballers you don't fancy, they could be your saving grace. I am sorry but you all get paid handsomely well enough to give some entertainment For your home supporters.i can take us getting beat but only has long as we have given it a go from the kick off. I never welcomed your appointment and I still don't. Big mistake Jeremy
Until the Bournemouth game traveling to the Albion from Devon was always the highlight of my week but the boring football I am witnessing its a chore to even get on the bus now. If it don't improve starting from tomorrow and I expect at least 4 points from the next 2 homes games then the villa will be my last game until this Heath coach is ousted.sorry but that's the way I feel. Improve the football at home Irvine even if it means playing footballers you don't fancy, they could be your saving grace. I am sorry but you all get paid handsomely well enough to give some entertainment For your home supporters.i can take us getting beat but only has long as we have given it a go from the kick off. I never welcomed your appointment and I still don't. Big mistake Jeremy
I expect the same team as last week minus yacob.Agreed although Sess could be taken out too or put out wide where it doesn't suit him.
The guy has no clue.
I expect the same team as last week minus yacob.right on both counts!!!! >:( :( >:( >:(
The guy has no clue.
I don't post much on here but let me tell you if i did i would be accused of being a happy clapper. I am massively positive about Albion and very rarely do i want to see a manager sacked. I liked Mowbray, RDM, Hodgson, SC and Mel. Only SC's sacking did i see as a necessity, although i was sad about it.
But this Irvine bloke is a disaster. The happy clapper in me thought JP had seen something no one else had seen and he would surprise us, with good football or good selections and good results. Make everyone have egg on their face.
He has done none of that. Boring football, boring selections, terrible results, an absolute load of tripe and i've not felt like this is years and years.
I'm done with Albion until we have a style/manager/system that excites me.
I've only been excited by the football Albion play in the 3/4 matches Mel had to express it before the old boys took over.
how is gamboa still not playingIn Alan's mind,Wisdom is the best right back in the world.
This bloke has made me bored of supporting West Bromwich Albion.Burton needs to go with him for recommending the appointment, along with Downing and Kiely who should have been let go of a long time ago.
The decision by the board to appoint this manager WILL backfire. It wont happen tonight or in the next few weeks IMO.
It is delaying the inevitable though. Its not going to get any better Jeremy Peace. Most fans said this when he was appointed and you need to admit that you have royally c****d this up.
Burton needs to go with him for recommending the appointment, along with Downing and Kiely who should have been let go of a long time ago.
Sacking Alan Irvine will not solve the problem. Who ever comes in will have a hard time if his philosophy conflicts with those who have the established power base at the club. Peace is a business man, who does he listen to? What kind of risk is acceptable? Perhaps if Irvine replaced Downing? I certainly can't see a quick fix to this situation and trying to bring in another head coach/patsy will prove difficult with the current set up only someone desperate would risk his reputation on a hiding to nothing.We might get someone who has a go at teams , uses a squad and isn't fully out of his depth.
The villa will be my last home game until he's gone. I will still go away because the atmosphere amongst supporters is better, more enjoyabledid notice devon more and more empty seats appearing at the home games, two of them were mine ,made the choice after the Newcastle game to stay away till theres something worth spending £100 on. pisses me of to do it but travelling from north wales and watching your team have no attacking intent is just a waste of time and money, fair play to those that go but can see gates falling if he stays and keeps playing this rubbish football.
We might get someone who has a go at teams , uses a squad and isn't fully out of his depth.
He's so predictable.
That's my main worry.
At this stage id take steve Clarke back. That's how bad it is at the minute.
Like Mel? I would like to believe it is as simple as you say but I do not think it is humanly possible for one personality to do the job. The Chelski manager is not going to leave for us and I do not believe under the current system he would even get the job...It is simple , you turn up and have a damn good go against whoever you play, the least i expect . I could just about accept Irvine's style if we had some spells of exciting play each game and genuine goal threat or picking points up at a decent rate.Seems a nice bloke but clearly out of his depth with his dinosaur , narrow , boring football.
It's hoped that next game(vs West Ham) will be Alan's last chance,if we lose again,sack him please.
Lets face it he isnt going to get sacked anytime soon.
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Wanna a bet loose the next 2 and he's gone
Terrible, negative, lackluster and soulless football - please no more! Do the right thing Jeremy, he's slowly sucking the life from the club.
It is simple , you turn up and have a damn good go against whoever you play, the least i expect . I could just about accept Irvine's style if we had some spells of exciting play each game and genuine goal threat or picking points up at a decent rate.Seems a nice bloke but clearly out of his depth with his dinosaur , narrow , boring football.In some jobs you have to toe the line if you want to survive. Even if you do try to argue your case you might not be listened to. Or you might be listened to but ignored. Ever heard of a clique?
Perhaps you are used to having plenty to say and everyone agreeing with you at work? In some jobs you have to toe the line if you want to survive. Even if you do try to argue your case you might not be listened to. Or you might be listened to but ignored. Ever heard of a clique?
Ever heard of a clique?Yes, it's what did for Pepe Mel, but let's not go over that yet again. However, what a shame that Pepe wasn't here for the pre-season and could hsape his squad with his choice of coaches, rather than the spineless and clueless bunch we've ended up with.
You need a strong man. Pulis would dismantle any cliques.
You need a strong man. Pulis would dismantle any cliques.
Perhaps you are used to having plenty to say and everyone agreeing with you at work? In some jobs you have to toe the line if you want to survive. Even if you do try to argue your case you might not be listened to. Or you might be listened to but ignored. Ever heard of a clique?I'm well aware about toeing the line thanks , clique ? ....while last season was hard work the football wasn't this bad or negative , that's come from the arrival of one bloke ...the same bloke who doesn't attack or use wide players. As a team in its fourth year at this level we should be able to take teams on better than this , the football Irvine has us playing now is like when we first got up under Megson yet this is a far superior squad.
He's not going to be sacked for losing to Chelsea, Arsenal, and in form Newcastle. I get the feeling the club has had enough of sacking managers (unsurprisingly given it takes us ages to get one in) and Irvine is here till the bitter end. He'll get the season. If we stay up, he'll start next season too.I disagree that having a director of football is part of the problem- that part of the structure is very sensible and useful. However, the refusal to move along back-room staff and bring in a new head coach's aids is what's costing us in terms of Head Coach options. If we can change that part of the philosophy by letting go of Irvine, Kelly, Downing and Kiely and allowing the new man to bring in two of his own assistants I believe we'll be fine.
We didn't end up with Irvine in the first place because we had a tonne of decent options to choose from. The club has a very restrictive structure and no one will work under it seeing that every single manager we have keeps failing miserably at it. We loosened those restrictions for Hodgson, he signed players he wanted, not ones we thought he should have wanted, and unsurprisingly he was easily our best manager.
The club's problems go far deeper than Irvine, sacking him won't change the problems we'll just end up with another coach no one wants.
There's a reason the club keeps taking longer and longer to get a head coach each time we sack one. No one who's got any ounce of ability will work under these conditions. The only other club working to this style religiously is Spurs and they have the same problem of managers unable to fit in, and terrible signings.
I disagree that having a director of football is part of the problem- that part of the structure is very sensible and useful. However, the refusal to move along back-room staff and bring in a new head coach's aids is what's costing us in terms of Head Coach options. If we can change that part of the philosophy by letting go of Irvine, Kelly, Downing and Kiely and allowing the new man to bring in two of his own assistants I believe we'll be fine.
You might well be right, this is exactly how I see it, however such a major overhaul would involve the kind of risk that doesn't sit well with Mr Peace.I used to hold that view too, but after the summer of sacking Mel, appointing Irvine against everyone's wishes, signing eleven new players and openly taking the blame for last season, I think that Peace might just have it in him to make the right decision this time, albeit a massive one.
I used to hold that view too, but after the summer of sacking Mel, appointing Irvine against everyone's wishes, signing eleven new players and openly taking the blame for last season, I think that Peace might just have it in him to make the right decision this time, albeit a massive one.
I dont want Irvine sacked because sacking a manager every few months achieves nothing, sometimes sticking with somebody can work out (West Ham and Newcastle spring to mind)
However i think he does need to have a look at things, he came with a reputation for his teams been quite conservative but until the Bournemouth game i felt we were going in the right direction, not every game but most we we had a go, played football, created chances and okay we wasnt some outstanding attacking team but we havent been for years and we wasnt going to change overnight especially with the personnel.
Unfortunately over the last few weeks we seem to have gone backwards, we are too cautious and negative in our approach and thats usually a managers way of acknowledging they are under pressure, ie - dont get beat (Clarke did the same in his later days)
As somebody earlier was saying, whether we agree or not with the selections, Irvine works with them every day, he hands out who does what, etc and if he doesnt feel the players can do it, he wont pick them. I think Gamboa is a prime example of that, us as fans like him because he has pace and gets forward, its great for us to watch, but as a right back in a 4-4-2 your first job is surely to defend and he cannot defend, he is constantly out of position and will cost us goals, maybe in another formation we would see the best of him.
I think what could work in Irvines favour is that he can rightly drop a few of our players now and they cant really argue as we are playing poor and losing, its upto Irvine now, hopefully he can get back to been positive again.
That said his fate was sealed with some fans the day he was appointed and aside from us winning 5-0 every game which was never going to happen, he hasnt got a chance with some. If his name was Alain Irvinuez, he was foreign and he had had limited success at say Elche and Tenerife (clubs like Preston and Sheff Weds) then he would of got a lot better chance, we laughed at Villa for how they treated Mcleish yet we have done exactly the same with Irvine, we had been on a decent run of form until Newcastle and even before that game there was calls for him to go! When we have been rubbish its fair game to have a pop at him and the team, i will say it now, last 3 games i have been bored stupid.
However when we were doing okay it was deemed lucky, opposition were rubbish, played teams at the right time, etc even games when we have been entertaining (and there have been some) people wont acknowledge it and i think that negativity has been there from day one and sadly wont go til Irvine does, god help the next bloke who gets the job because judging by some fans, if we dont win the first few games under them easily with amazing football he will need to be sacked.
I dont want Irvine sacked because sacking a manager every few months achieves nothing, sometimes sticking with somebody can work out (West Ham and Newcastle spring to mind)[/b]
However i think he does need to have a look at things, he came with a reputation for his teams been quite conservative but until the Bournemouth game i felt we were going in the right direction, not every game but most we we had a go, played football, created chances and okay we wasnt some outstanding attacking team but we havent been for years and we wasnt going to change overnight especially with the personnel.
Unfortunately over the last few weeks we seem to have gone backwards, we are too cautious and negative in our approach and thats usually a managers way of acknowledging they are under pressure, ie - dont get beat (Clarke did the same in his later days)
As somebody earlier was saying, whether we agree or not with the selections, Irvine works with them every day, he hands out who does what, etc and if he doesnt feel the players can do it, he wont pick them. I think Gamboa is a prime example of that, us as fans like him because he has pace and gets forward, its great for us to watch, but as a right back in a 4-4-2 your first job is surely to defend and he cannot defend, he is constantly out of position and will cost us goals, maybe in another formation we would see the best of him.
I think what could work in Irvines favour is that he can rightly drop a few of our players now and they cant really argue as we are playing poor and losing, its upto Irvine now, hopefully he can get back to been positive again.
That said his fate was sealed with some fans the day he was appointed and aside from us winning 5-0 every game which was never going to happen, he hasnt got a chance with some. If his name was Alain Irvinuez, he was foreign and he had had limited success at say Elche and Tenerife (clubs like Preston and Sheff Weds) then he would of got a lot better chance, we laughed at Villa for how they treated Mcleish yet we have done exactly the same with Irvine, we had been on a decent run of form until Newcastle and even before that game there was calls for him to go! When we have been rubbish its fair game to have a pop at him and the team, i will say it now, last 3 games i have been bored stupid.
However when we were doing okay it was deemed lucky, opposition were rubbish, played teams at the right time, etc even games when we have been entertaining (and there have been some) people wont acknowledge it and i think that negativity has been there from day one and sadly wont go til Irvine does, god help the next bloke who gets the job because judging by some fans, if we dont win the first few games under them easily with amazing football he will need to be sacked.
One thing that has stuck with me since the Summer is the majority of the new signings were clearly not Irvine type players , personally I've always suspected they were brought in as a Plan B if Irvine didn't work out or use them himself . We all knew Irvine was a huge gamble so it's clear JP and co would have known this too , a back up plan makes sense.
The players are much more 'Pepe' friendly and he is still available. Go get him JP.
Ole, Ole, Ole!
If Mel was Scottish no one would ever remember his time here fondly. Absolutely dreadful all round. People moan about Irvine, Mel thought playing high lines with Lugano at centre back was perfectly good!
Equally the same now. Dreadful all round. Give me camicazi on the edge of your seat football any day over the worst football in my 40 years watching the Albion
The players are much more 'Pepe' friendly and he is still available. Go get him JP.
Ole, Ole, Ole!
No head coach has made worse decisions than Ted. He can't make one for starters. I am sure if we had a poll mel or ted we all know the end result don't we.obviously ted will have his few followers for the time being
Speaking after his side's defeat to Arsene Wenger's side, Irvine continued: "We got close to getting something - we were committing people forward at the end.
"I thought we started well but we lost control of the game. We started the second half ok and there was a big moment at the start of the second that might have made a difference and then obviously they scored.
"We had Arsenal on the back foot late on, we hit the bar so we might have got something."
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-irvine-west-brom-baggies-berahino-offside-2112222.aspx#XcFsUifp1qBc0Ika.99 (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-irvine-west-brom-baggies-berahino-offside-2112222.aspx#XcFsUifp1qBc0Ika.99)
We started well?We had a big moment??Ridiculous....
Irvine continued: "....we were committing people forward at the end...."All too late, me old mucker, all too late. This comment, in a nutshell, says everything about how you approach football matches, and it sucks.
Speaking after his side's defeat to Arsene Wenger's side, Irvine continued: "We got close to getting something - we were committing people forward at the end.
"I thought we started well but we lost control of the game. We started the second half ok and there was a big moment at the start of the second that might have made a difference and then obviously they scored.
"We had Arsenal on the back foot late on, we hit the bar so we might have got something."
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-irvine-west-brom-baggies-berahino-offside-2112222.aspx#XcFsUifp1qBc0Ika.99 (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-irvine-west-brom-baggies-berahino-offside-2112222.aspx#XcFsUifp1qBc0Ika.99)
We started well?We had a big moment??Ridiculous....
Bye bye Irvine
[/q
What about to the tune from the Bay city rollers
Irvine 13/1 for next Premier League Gaffa to get the chop.
That's generous considering JP makes the change 'out of the blue'.
Jacko i agree with a lot of what you say but on certain things (Brunt and Dorrans namely) you have your views and no matter what happens you wont change them.
The same applies with Irvine, you made your mind up before a game was played and no matter what happened you wasnt going to change it, even after wins over Spurs and Burnley you pointed it was down to them in some way rather than anything to do with us.
The post wasnt an essay, it was merely trying to provide some reality to the Irvine situation, nobody wanted him but the way people are talking we are bottom without a point, yes the last few games have been awful but upto that there was a lot of positive, including being mid table and been fairly entertaining, you dont give a manager a new 5 year deal based on a few good games, so surely you shouldnt sack him based on a few bad games.
I assume whoever has the job next if we are not above midtable in the league and playing all out attacking football after 10 x games then you will be calling for them to be sacked too?
Can't believe I am desperate for Pulis to take over. Two or three years ago I wouldn't have touched him with a sh*tty stick.
It's entirely down to the style of play, I'd prefer it if we were bottom and playing like we did under Mowbray. In my opinion that wouldn't happen though as I think we have a very good squad that is handicapped by the head coach and his tactics.
Jacko i agree with a lot of what you say but on certain things (Brunt and Dorrans namely) you have your views and no matter what happens you wont change them.Forget league position, it is not what it's all about. We pay good, hard earned money to watch our club and this is embarrassing. I could have walked out after 10 mins today it was so obvious that we had no ambition either on the pitch or the bench. The players are following instruction, that is also clear. This dross is 100% down to Irvine and his inept band of coaches.
The same applies with Irvine, you made your mind up before a game was played and no matter what happened you wasnt going to change it, even after wins over Spurs and Burnley you pointed it was down to them in some way rather than anything to do with us.
The post wasnt an essay, it was merely trying to provide some reality to the Irvine situation, nobody wanted him but the way people are talking we are bottom without a point, yes the last few games have been awful but upto that there was a lot of positive, including being mid table and been fairly entertaining, you dont give a manager a new 5 year deal based on a few good games, so surely you shouldnt sack him based on a few bad games.
I assume whoever has the job next if we are not above midtable in the league and playing all out attacking football after 10 x games then you will be calling for them to be sacked too?
Too be honest these Premier League performances are just like Mowbray sideways passing without any commitment going forward by the time those sideways passes become a forward move.
Come on then seriously. How much time has he got. I think he will get till after the vile game. I expect us to loose the next three. He should go now but I suspect he won'tDamage limitation now
Some fans wanted him out after the Everton game and we won three on the bounce. He should still get time for me with some games coming up where we should be looking to pick up points.
Too be honest these Premier League performances are just like Mowbray sideways passing without any commitment going forward by the time those sideways passes become a forward move.The squad as a whole is much better than Mowbray had available to him.
It is interesting how people dismiss what he has to say but for the first 15 minutes of the game we were on top of them. We were the only side to put the ball in the back of the net in the first half with an offside decision that Chelsea appear to get away with. We created a chance for our top scorer which you would have probably backed us to take the lead from had it not been for an incorrect flag from the assistant referee. The substitution of Sess for Samaras clearly created more opportunity for us and we clearly had them on the back foot following the substitution , hitting the crossbar.
It is interesting how people dismiss what he has to say but for the first 15 minutes of the game we were on top of them. We were the only side to put the ball in the back of the net in the first half with an offside decision that Chelsea appear to get away with. We created a chance for our top scorer which you would have probably backed us to take the lead from had it not been for an incorrect flag from the assistant referee. The substitution of Sess for Samaras clearly created more opportunity for us and we clearly had them on the back foot following the substitution , hitting the crossbar.
It is interesting how people dismiss what he has to say but for the first 15 minutes of the game we were on top of them. We were the only side to put the ball in the back of the net in the first half with an offside decision that Chelsea appear to get away with. We created a chance for our top scorer which you would have probably backed us to take the lead from had it not been for an incorrect flag from the assistant referee. The substitution of Sess for Samaras clearly created more opportunity for us and we clearly had them on the back foot following the substitution , hitting the crossbar.
Dont get me wrong I want him out. In fact the day he was announced I thought it was a bad dream but who is out there that is a) available or b) willing to leave their jobs, c) willing to work in our system with a DOF, d) have the ability to drop players who are far too comfortable and e) willing to work with our useless coaching team?
Someone please give me some names.
Downing would be a better bet for starters
Downing would be a better bet for starters
I see Steve Madeley was saying today that Irvine doesn't see enough out of some players (meaning Blanco and Varela for two) and he doesn't think they're good enough.Hallelujah.
Well one of the is a Portuguese international, and the other has caps for Argentina, so does that say more about them or Irvine?
He won't pick them because they are attack minded flair players, and he doesn't like them.
We need him gone. We need Downing and Kiely gone too, because none of these players have improved in the last two years with their coaching, and the stagnation in ideas is going to ruin the club.
I'd like to know the answers to some of those questions myself. Particularly 1, 2 and 3.Question 1 baffles me.
2 games to save his job?I imagine Peace will be looking more closely at the results of our next four games rather than our last three.
Questions I would seriously like to ask Alan Irvine
1/ The inference from your previous comments is that you do not think Varela is good enough. As he is a Portuguese international, how do you reach this conclusion?
2/ Also, Blanco does not seem to be deemed to be good enough. As he has been capped by Argentina, how do you reach this conclusion?
3/ We have spent £10 million on a striker, the first time in our history we have done so, and you do not think he is good enough. Another international, so how can you justify this?
4/ You also claim that he can't play together with Berahino. Does this not say more about your coaching ability than either players style?
5/ If you truly believe that Blanco, Varela, Ideye, Gamboa, et al, are simply not good enough for West Bromwich Albion, why not play them in a game where we have nothing to lose (e.g. Arsenal at home) to prove it.
6/ Pocognoli has been substituted in approximately 50% of the games he has started; do you not feel it would be better to have a specialist left back on the bench, or at least alter formation to better accommodate the players at your disposal?
7/ Do you realise that 38 0-0 draws might just keep us in the division, but is an impossible objective to achieve?
8/ Do you think you should have taken the job in the first place, having failed at clubs such as Preston and Sheffield Wednesday in league 1?
9/ Youssouf Mulumbu was either player of the season, or a contender for it, in all of the last 5 seasons. He was even called the best defensive midfielder in the Premier league by the Telegraph. How can you explain his drop in form, and his omission from the team, since you took over?
10/ Your substitutions are often the same; you continue to use Anichebe, then Gamboa, then Samaras, mostly in that order. Do you not think a bit of variation might make us harder to scout, and therefore play against?
11/ You say that we had chances, and had Arsenal on the back foot, for the last part of the game. Why do we not start like that, nor play that way in more winnable games?
12/ Ben Fosters kicking has gradually gotten worse over an extended period. Is it not the job of the coaching staff to spot weaknesses in a players game and try to improve them? If so, are you attempting this?
13/ Do you practice free kicks and corners in training, and if so, why do we never see any pre-arranged routines in games?
14/ Also, if Chris Brunt is practicing in training, why has his delivery got steadily worse? This is an issue that pre-dates your appointment, but must be something you would be looking at?
There are more, but I'm getting too angry to type.
Questions I would seriously like to ask Alan IrvineRest assured Mr Peace will be asking 1,2,3 !!
1/ The inference from your previous comments is that you do not think Varela is good enough. As he is a Portuguese international, how do you reach this conclusion?
2/ Also, Blanco does not seem to be deemed to be good enough. As he has been capped by Argentina, how do you reach this conclusion?
3/ We have spent £10 million on a striker, the first time in our history we have done so, and you do not think he is good enough. Another international, so how can you justify this?
4/ You also claim that he can't play together with Berahino. Does this not say more about your coaching ability than either players style?
5/ If you truly believe that Blanco, Varela, Ideye, Gamboa, et al, are simply not good enough for West Bromwich Albion, why not play them in a game where we have nothing to lose (e.g. Arsenal at home) to prove it.
6/ Pocognoli has been substituted in approximately 50% of the games he has started; do you not feel it would be better to have a specialist left back on the bench, or at least alter formation to better accommodate the players at your disposal?
7/ Do you realise that 38 0-0 draws might just keep us in the division, but is an impossible objective to achieve?
8/ Do you think you should have taken the job in the first place, having failed at clubs such as Preston and Sheffield Wednesday in league 1?
9/ Youssouf Mulumbu was either player of the season, or a contender for it, in all of the last 5 seasons. He was even called the best defensive midfielder in the Premier league by the Telegraph. How can you explain his drop in form, and his omission from the team, since you took over?
10/ Your substitutions are often the same; you continue to use Anichebe, then Gamboa, then Samaras, mostly in that order. Do you not think a bit of variation might make us harder to scout, and therefore play against?
11/ You say that we had chances, and had Arsenal on the back foot, for the last part of the game. Why do we not start like that, nor play that way in more winnable games?
12/ Ben Fosters kicking has gradually gotten worse over an extended period. Is it not the job of the coaching staff to spot weaknesses in a players game and try to improve them? If so, are you attempting this?
13/ Do you practice free kicks and corners in training, and if so, why do we never see any pre-arranged routines in games?
14/ Also, if Chris Brunt is practicing in training, why has his delivery got steadily worse? This is an issue that pre-dates your appointment, but must be something you would be looking at?
There are more, but I'm getting too angry to type.
It is interesting how people dismiss what he has to say but for the first 15 minutes of the game we were on top of them. We were the only side to put the ball in the back of the net in the first half with an offside decision that Chelsea appear to get away with. We created a chance for our top scorer which you would have probably backed us to take the lead from had it not been for an incorrect flag from the assistant referee. The substitution of Sess for Samaras clearly created more opportunity for us and we clearly had them on the back foot following the substitution , hitting the crossbar.are you a solicitor? are you a solicitor for Irvine?? your case for the defence is abysmal. Can only assume if the club decided our paint work should be claret and blue you would say if it was official it must be OK, open your eyes Irvine is a one way ticket to the championship !! >:( >:( >:( >:(
I imagine Peace will be looking more closely at the results of our next four games rather than our last three.
Could not agree more. Fail to put in some match winning performances against the next four and he will be gone.
The ironic thing I found about today's match is his tactics nearly worked and we nearly got a good point against a decent Arsenal team.
Irvine has hit a crossroads here. He has a number of choices and he needs to be bold.
Either he can continue with his handbrake on, one paced football with the likes of Brunt, Dorrans and Gardner within the same midfield dictating a slow tempo with our full backs failing to provide any width
or
He can approach a game with a more imaginative midfield where the emphasis is on creativity. You have the likes of Blanco, Varela and Sessegnon available to you. It's imperative you get the most from them Alan otherwise your reign here won't last very long.
I just want to see a bit of intention from an Albion side. An Albion side creating a bit of pressure rather than an elementary hoof after seven or eight passes. We have to move the ball much quicker and take the game to the opposition - unfortunately we won't do that when our wide midfielders are Brunt and Dorrans.
Unfortunately I see us continuing with the one paced, pedestrian football which will continue to bore everybody stiff and alienate the fan base against him.
I honestly believe he doesn't think there is anything wrong.
Madely and a couple of sycophants came across as very smug pre kick-off in a discussion on twitter about the new signings, the point being Irvine has as good as said they're not good enough.
I don't think Madeley needs to tell us that to be honest.
The fact he has more or less refused to use any of Varela, Brown and Blanco speaks volumes.
Surely they can't be worse than some of the current garbage on offer?
Well a few people said that to him, only for the "he sees them in training all week" AND this was the kicker, he (Madeley) can't believe fans think teams are picked based purely on matches, came across worse than Lepkowski ever did, and he could get on his high horse at times.
Madeley has lost all objectivity which is unfortunate as it's vital for his job. He will not have a bad word said about Irvine and the heirachy at the club (perhaps something to do with his pals Swain and Lepkowski being high up?).
How on earth do you surmise it nearly worked? We never looked like equalising, even the header that hit the bar was a tame effort which would have been a comforatble save had it been low enough to go in. We had one shot on target. No shots at all for 54 minutes: a Premier League record apparently. We were the HOME team, it's just unacceptable to play that way against anyone.Just to put you right on one thing. I saw the slow motion and that effort would have been in if just under the bar - the keeper had dived and there was room. It would have just papered over the cracks though.
Awful, got to go! Starting line up doesn't work, change it. Substitutions are woeful at best. Slow football. Shocking, VVV don't defend him this week. He has to go.Of course he has to go, in the last three matches we have lost to the Premier league form team and two Champions league teams. Our Premier league survival does not really hinge on any of these games and we had opportunities to get something from today's game. Disappointed but I'm not slashing my wrists.
Of course he has to go, in the last three matches we have lost to the Premier league form team and two Champions league teams. Our Premier league survival does not really hinge on any of these games and we had opportunities to get something from today's game. Disappointed but I'm not slashing my wrists.That's no excuse for not trying to get points from them.
That's no excuse for not trying to get points from them.You may disagree with the method that he sets us up to get points but you honestly believe that professional sports men go into a match intent on losing? You might want to write to the fa about your match fixing conspiracy.
And this is why I post, to highlight idiotic opinions like this. ;) You may disagree with the method that he sets us up to get points but you honestly believe that professional sports men go into a match intent on losing? You might want to write to the fa about your match fixing conspiracy.Okay, Irvine probably did think in his not-so-brilliantly-configured mind that the way he set up his team in the previous two games was optimal to getting a point. My point stems from an (almost) disbelief that he could possibly envisage such tactics would result in us ever getting something positive from either game. Such conservatism (to put it mildly) was only ever going to result in losing, and, at times, was reminiscent of an attempt at damage limitation.
Okay, Irvine probably did think in his not-so-brilliantly-configured mind that the way he set up his team in the previous two games was optimal to getting a point. My point stems from an (almost) disbelief that he could possibly envisage such tactics would result in us ever getting something positive from either game. Such conservatism (to put it mildly) was only ever going to result in losing, and, at times, was reminiscent of an attempt at damage limitation.
This is such a common point and a false one. That conservatism has got us results in the past and will do in the future. It just stings a lot more when you play that way and lose. Can anyone really convince me this isn't the case?On the contrary, such conservatism has seen us throw away the chance at gaining points in a number of games this season, where a more balanced approach might have seen us picking up points in the odd game (better than nothing), albeit in exchange for a poorer goal difference from the games we would have ended up losing by a heavier margin.
This is such a common point and a false one. That conservatism has got us results in the past and will do in the future. It just stings a lot more when you play that way and lose. Can anyone really convince me this isn't the case?
On the contrary, such conservatism has seen us throw away the chance at gaining points in a number of games this season, where a more balanced approach might have seen us picking up points in the odd game (better than nothing), in exchange for a poorer goal difference from the games we would have ended up losing by a heavier margin.
A win or a loss, with or without conservatism affects your points sure. I think you might find that a majority of fans want their team to play like we did at the end of the match today rather than the dross we saw at the start. I also personally think such tactics would have brought results rather than the system we used which clearly didn't.
Seems a poor unprovable argument. All nice rhetoric no substance.You just described your own point, the one I was responding to.
A mentioned elsewhere that atmosphere may improve if we dispensed with Irvine and adopted a more positive approach, it didn't work with Mel though did it. However a manager deserved to be judged purely on results and I don't think a different approach would have made a positive difference at all.Just like you pointed out of my own point, this is total conjecture.
A mentioned elsewhere that atmosphere may improve if we dispensed with Irvine and adopted a more positive approach, it didn't work with Mel though did it. However a manager deserved to be judged purely on results and I don't think a different approach would have made a positive difference at all.
A mentioned elsewhere that atmosphere may improve if we dispensed with Irvine and adopted a more positive approach, it didn't work with Mel though did it. However a manager deserved to be judged purely on results and I don't think a different approach would have made a positive difference at all.
Just like you pointed out of my own point, this is total conjecture.
A mentioned elsewhere that atmosphere may improve if we dispensed with Irvine and adopted a more positive approach, it didn't work with Mel though did it. However a manager deserved to be judged purely on results and I don't think a different approach would have made a positive difference at all.Firstly, it's unfair to compare the two as Mel had to work with his hands tied behind his back (players unwilling to play ambitious football, Keith Downing and Dean Kiely seemingly undermining him, and no chance to bring in his own players).
I think Mel was put in an untenable position, at the time people were saying "right man wrong time". I find it really weird to be honest how the squad would seem to have been chosen with Mel in mind but with IIrvine to manage. This might be the result of the disjointed system we are working under.
Well did it under Mel or Mowbray our most positive managers in the prem? Yes it is conjecture but I do think that their is more evidence to support my claim. Yours is just an unoriginal point that is just thrown out by a lot of fans whenever there is a loss playing this style of football.*there.
Firstly, it's unfair to compare the two as Mel had to work with his hands tied behind his back (players unwilling to play ambitious football, Keith Downing and Dean Kiely seemingly undermining him, and no chance to bring in his own players).
Secondly, despite those factors, he kept us up and increased the entertainment factor.
*there.
Again, similar to the point that's been made over Mel, you can't compare Mowbray's rein to the current one given the difference in quality of our squad between now and then.
Do you honestly believe Mowbray would be doing worse than Irvine is with the current squad, even purely on points?
And excuses come out for the positive manager and stories with little substance are rolled out to defend him. Is Irvine is a brilliant position with a huge turnover of players?
I guess it all boils down to whether you buy into the "lack of fitness" reason for not using our flair players.
Prove any of that. Even if it were true surely that means Mel wasn't strong enough, he admitted himself he lost the dressing room.I'd be happy to. Mel wasn't given any money to make signings, which is just an indisputable fact.
Barley kept us up and we were conservative at times. Norwich, West Ham where was actually got results. The only thing that inproved was the atmosphere under Mel. Stats prove results didn't.
Sessegnon is a flair player.He is one. As we have seen, one flair player and a striker hasn't offered us enough of a threat to see us score a goal in the last six hours of football (there's an actual fact for you). A cliche though it is, if you don't score you can't win. If you apply that stat to the remaining games, we're going down.
I guess it all boils down to whether you buy into the "lack of fitness" reason for not using our flair players.I guess it boils down to if you believe our "flair" players are any good?
Back to Pepe Mel again. ???If you'd care to read the debate, Mel wasn't brought into this because he is seen as the saviour, but rather was brought into it by KingKoren to suggest that a more attacking style is unlikely to bring us more points.
Everyone on here could be as good a manager as he was. I can tell the support I expect a high line, attacking adventurous football and quick passing movement, (even Alan Irvine could do that) however actually working with the resources available to him showed him up for the head coach he wasn't.
The same coaches that he was "lumbered" with (if that is your argument for his failure) are the same ones that Irvine is working with but that argument no longer suits.
I'd be happy to. Mel wasn't given any money to make signings, which is just an indisputable fact.
Secondly, it's common knowledge that the players organised a meeting in order to move away from the playing style Mel was trying to implement.
To take a step back for a second, the debate was over whether a more balanced approach could lead to better results (independent of the easier-on-the-eye football it would inevitably produce, which is worth something to many fans in itself). Unfortunately neither of us can definitively prove whether it would either way, but hopefully we'll found out in due course.
If you'd care to read the debate, Mel wasn't brought into this because he is seen as the saviour, but rather was brought into it by KingKoren to suggest that a more attacking style is unlikely to bring us more points.And excuses were made by you for Pepe Mel results which you don't afford to Alan Irvine.
He is one. As we have seen, one flair player and a striker hasn't offered us enough of a threat to see us score a goal in the last six hours of football (there's an actual fact for you). A cliche though it is, if you don't score you can't win. If you apply that stat to the remaining games, we're going down.
I think if we lose the next 2 games he will be sacked for sure,our midfield is now simply too slow to compete at this level,second tier prem teams like ,Swansea,newcastle,hull,even palace are much too quick for us,its like watching England v Scotland and we are Scotland,only teams we can compete with are burnley and Leicester who lack pace
We're worse than Scotland, Dorrans can get in our side.
The constant put downs of certain players and hero worship of others is getting past boring now.To be fair, that was amusing. :D
Was he promised signings?Except Hodgson wasn't our most conservative manager, Irvine is (and you could make an argument for Megson too). Hodgson succeeded in getting a balance far superior to what we're currently seeing with Irvine. He even played wingers! Without that balance he wouldn't have been as successful as he was.
Well doesn't the manager deserve criticism for not selling his philosophy to the players?
Our most conservative manager in the Premiership was Roy Hogson and he got the best results (best win percentage). I'd say this is what the club recognised and wanted to replicate with Irvine. Who knows whether this will happen. What is not certain is that more attacking brand of football will guarantee better results. We should support the manager regardless of playing style and it's evident that is not happening.
To be fair, that was amusing. :D
And excuses were made by you for Pepe Mel results which you don't afford to Alan Irvine.Correct, they don't apply. The reasons were:
Who's fault is it we don't have fit flair wingers available?Irvine's for not giving them the necessary game time (though I'm not sure why this is aimed at me as I've not said anything about this)
I guess it boils down to if you believe our "flair" players are any good?
Except Hodgson wasn't our most conservative manager, Irvine is (and you could make an argument for Megson too). Hodgson succeeded in getting a balance far superior to what we're currently seeing with Irvine. He even played wingers! Without that balance he wouldn't have been as successful as he was.Perhaps he had fit wingers at his disposal.
I agree that that's probably what was in Peace's mind when he appointed Irvine. Unfortunately Irvine isn't and never will be Roy Hodgson.
As for supporting the manager regardless, that's a whole different debate. My own thoughts on that is that if you believe the manager is only going to lead to your demise, you have a right to voice your opinion on him and argue for his replacement.
To be honest I think you'll struggle with the proposal that all fans should stick with the manager no matter what, it's a personal opinion and people have the right to choose.
Irvine's for not giving them the necessary game time (though I'm not sure why this is aimed at me as I've not said anything about this)
Unfortunately we don't see enough to judge. Yet using conservative methodology we continue to not only fail to pick up points but also perhaps more importantly disappoint and even depress the fans.So the answer suggested is to put players in that are potentially no good because the supporters haven't seen them play?
So the answer suggested is to put players in that are potentially no good because the supporters haven't seen them play?
Perhaps he had fit wingers at his disposal.Irvine has fit wingers at his disposal, the last of which to get fit was Varela, who according to Irvine was fit two weeks ago. Blanco isn't an out and out winger but is more than comfortable playing on the side in an advanced role, and would bring a lot more flair and attacking intent into our team.
Why can't he be? Genuine question? By all accounts he is fantastic coach and an organiser like Roy.
There's no way Jeremy Peace isn't aware the majority of fans don't like Irvine he doesn't care. So what does voicing this opinion achieve? Negative atmosphere. Players are more tentative. Attending games is less enjoyable.
I agree however majority opinion doesn't interest me. Most fans are not intelligent.
Perhaps he had fit wingers at his disposal.[/b]
Why can't he be? Genuine question? By all accounts he is fantastic coach and an organiser like Roy.
There's no way Jeremy Peace isn't aware the majority of fans don't like Irvine he doesn't care. So what does voicing this opinion achieve? Negative atmosphere. Players are more tentative. Attending games is less enjoyable.
I agree however majority opinion doesn't interest me. Most fans are not intelligent.
First time maybe, but when we see the same sort of comments on a more than daily basis it gets boring.Just been back through my last 150 posts, no Dorrans put downs, though any time I do mention him, you're there leaping to his defence. That goes back to the beginning of November so hardly a daily occurence.
Exactly don't understand why some fans can't see how ridiculous that is. When they play they show nothing, in training they show nothing, they aren't as fit. Why would you pick them over the regulars?
Irvine has fit wingers at his disposal, the last of which to get fit was Varela, who according to Irvine was fit two weeks ago. Blanco isn't an out and out winger but is more than comfortable playing on the side in an advanced role, and would bring a lot more flair and attacking intent into our team.
Why can't he be Roy Hodgson? That's laughable, but if I really must answer, take a look at the two's records.
I guess I hope that the fans' opinion will put pressure on Peace to act, but I'm aware that could be naive.
I agree that most football fans aren't intelligent (I don't include you in this, I've enjoyed our debate).
Having just read Irvines interview in the mail, I cannot believe he actually thinks that bad luck is somehow the major problem that were experiencing this season, 'big decisions' going against us, blah,blah,blah. 54 today mins for a shot at goal, god knows how many hours since we actually scored a goal (for ourelves) that's why were struggling. You make your own luck in football by taking the game to the opposition, being brave, positive and scoring goals. Unfortunately,he appears out of his depth, however great a coach he is purported to be.
So the answer suggested is to put players in that are potentially no good because the supporters haven't seen them play?
Just been back through my last 150 posts, no Dorrans put downs, though any time I do mention him, you're there leaping to his defence. That goes back to the beginning of November so hardly a daily occurence.I'd also add that their pedigree is very good, in terms of Ideye's goalscoring record, Blanco and Varela's caps for Argentina and Portugal, and Gamboa's performances for Costa Rica.
People are hung up on this Dorrans thing with me when in reality I have very little to say about him any more.
The regulars are playing very poorly. Also he has nothing to lose by giving them game time because if it goes wrong he can say I told you so and revert to type.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-silvestre-varela-set-8092925
In this article he makes it clear he isn't fit or fit enough, it maybe November 11th but it's unlikely he'll be caught up in two weeks. He clearly wants him involved by the sounds of it too why wouldn't he? He at least showed something positive in a game. Blanco is not a natural winger, he's no more a winger than Dorrans is.
Not really answered the question. Everyone starts with no record, he had only managed two clubs before.
Peace will base it on results nothing else. The atmosphere was still ok when Clarke and Di Matteo went.
Maybe it's unfair but I sit in the Smethwick and perhaps that colours my opinion of a few ;D
I have enjoyed it also. Would be more happy with better results that internet debates however.
Just been back through my last 150 posts, no Dorrans put downs, though any time I do mention him, you're there leaping to his defence. That goes back to the beginning of November so hardly a daily occurence.
People are hung up on this Dorrans thing with me when in reality I have very little to say about him any more.
The regulars are playing very poorly. Also he has nothing to lose by giving them game time because if it goes wrong he can say I told you so and revert to type.
I'd also add that their pedigree is very good, in terms of Ideye's goalscoring record, Blanco and Varela's caps for Argentina and Portugal, and Gamboa's performances for Costa Rica.
Hard to see how they couldn't improve on the current clique really
Wasn't Rosenberg's pedigree good?
Wasn't Rosenberg's pedigree good?
You need to get up to speed, Irvine said Varela was fit and available for Chelsea and therefore also today, but he was left out of the 18 for "tactical" reasons.
Hodgson learned his trade abroad, never went and hid in youth football following his set backs, had managed god knows how many clubs by the time he was Irvine's age, I feel embarrassed for you that you would draw any parallels yet say most fans aren't intelligent.
Wasn't Rosenberg's pedigree good?Yes, and he's a good player. Deserved the chance to start the season alongside Anelka given their pre-season form. The man who made the strange decision there was Steve Clarke
Either way being fit and being match fit are different matters. If his tactical reasons were to start against West Ham and he has a stormer would you concede it was wise? You'll never give him credit.The only way he can get match fit is by picking up minutes in games, which Irvine refuses to give him!
I think you've misconstrued what I meant. I don't see why he can't replicate Hodgson's success with us. Not have his legacy or achieve what Roy did in his career - it's already too late for that.
Was and still is, 15 goals in 28 games for Malmo this season suggests there is pedigree so questions should be asked what went wrong here and why he wasn't given a proper chance in the role he does best as he seems to get elsewhere.
Either way being fit and being match fit are different matters. If his tactical reasons were to start against West Ham and he has a stormer would you concede it was wise? You'll never give him credit.
I think you've misconstrued what I meant. I don't see why he can't replicate Hodgson's success with us. Not have his legacy or achieve what Roy did in his career - it's already too late for that.
The only way he can get match fit is by picking up minutes in games, which Irvine refuses to give him!
Totally agree. What have Downing and Kiely done during their coaching careers to justify their seemingly unsackable status? When Downing was given the chance as head coach, he played Gera at wing-back with Amalfitano behind the striker. Absolutely baffling and leaves you questioning the intellect of many of the so-called "respected" individuals in football. Kiely on the other hand can barely string a sentence together on Twitter, for what that's worth.
I maintain our biggest problem is with the Downing / Keily clique thing. It has always struck me that these people are too close to the players, some of whom have too much of a say in what goes on (hence the Mel situation).
I don't like the head coach thing, we need a manager and he needs to bring in his own staff that he knows and trusts.
Until Downing / Keily go and that clique amongst the players is dismantled we're always going to have a big problem.
Perhaps he had fit wingers at his disposal.how arrogant of you to suggest that football fans are not intelligent, just because the one's you know aren't doesn't mean the rest of us are.by the way i have an iq of 161.
Why can't he be? Genuine question? By all accounts he is fantastic coach and an organiser like Roy.
There's no way Jeremy Peace isn't aware the majority of fans don't like Irvine he doesn't care. So what does voicing this opinion achieve? Negative atmosphere. Players are more tentative. Attending games is less enjoyable.
I agree however majority opinion doesn't interest me. Most fans are not intelligent.
If Irvine never gives him a chance citing tactical reasons then I'll criticise him for it. I think at this stage that is unfair. Christmas is a hectic period all the non-injured players will have their opportunity. I want them to take it and I 'm sure Irvine does too.He's been left out for tactical reasons for the last two weeks, Irvine admitted so himself.
Behave, of course I'll give him credit, where it's due. If he comes out and says he's been holding Varela back for West Ham and then Varela is superb I'll say well done. Problem is everyone else will say why didn't you pick him the last 2 games. And none of us will know whether it's true.
Because Hodgson had a modicum of tactical nous. Something Irvine is devoid of. He has no experience of being a success either.
Would a manager even admit that publicly because of what you have suggested? It's a lose lose situation.
Well we were incredibly fortunate to get someone with Hodgson's reputation,I don't think it'll happen again anything soon. Terry Burton thinks Alan Irvine is up to it. Regardless of what his said he has done ok so far. Let's see when we are after 19 games. We could be pleasantly surprised if not he may well be gone. Can't lose.
He's been left out for tactical reasons for the last two weeks, Irvine admitted so himself.
Fair enough, but we've seen nothing to suggest Irvine wants to play these players any time soon.
We can lose because after 19 games it's too late.
Also Terry Burton is new to the role he is in. His blessing is hardly a ringing endorsement. We need to dismantle this DoF approach. The restrictions were relaxed hugely with Hodgson unsurprisingly.
Roy took over in February so how is 19 games too late? Whoever took over would surely not be far of a point a game either seeing as we have 13 now.
So if he wasn't in the role he'd say Irvine isn't up to it? He is vastly experienced and thinks he is an excellent coach end of. Well that's not going to happen is it?
I think it may, if the rest of this week goes badly that'll be the 3rd "head coach" he's had to sack in 12 months. I think he'll bring in Pulis on a 3 or 4 year contract and get rid of Kiely Downing and Burton and start a new era at the club.
I have never once called for a manger to go but for the first time I think it's best for all parties that Irvine goes, I have no doubt he's a "great" coach but West Bromwich Albion need some one new, a man with passion a man with the personality to galvanise every single fan
Dejavu step forward Pepe ;D
I honestly believe he doesn't think there is anything wrong.
Madely and a couple of sycophants came across as very smug pre kick-off in a discussion on twitter about the new signings, the point being Irvine has as good as said they're not good enough.
Lose vs West Ham and he's gone.
Trust me.
As soon as i saw Irvine in consultation with Downing i switched my stream off and took the dogs for a walk...this isnt going to get any better. He is not the right man for this job and we have carried the backroom baggage for far too long. I used to enjoyed saturdays when at least the team win lose or draw looked like they had an idea or two. Now i find myself becoming bitter and twisted and for the first time in 45 years not wanting to watch my team.
I think Mel was put in an untenable position, at the time people were saying "right man wrong time". I find it really weird to be honest how the squad would seem to have been chosen with Mel in mind but with Irvine to manage. This might be the result of the disjointed system we are working under.My thoughts exactly, Mel just may have done something with these players, and by the way Theivy would have been a far better option than Samaras.
When they play they show nothing, in training they show nothing, they aren't as fit. Why would you pick them over the regulars?It's curious how you accuse others of conjecture and then come out with stuff like this. As for them not being fit, he's not giving them gamer time to get them fit.
The worrying signs that I saw regularly at Hillsborough are appearing to the fore here.Indeed, if you look back to the time he was appointed, something that shone clear from the comments of fans from other clubs he's managed was his obsession with praising the opposition before we play them and he's doing exactly the same thing now.
I like Irvine - he is a studious head coach, a good man and someone you can trust.I don't feel I can trust him at all. He has an endless list of excuses, implies he's going to do things and then doesn't do them (e.g. increase the involvement of Varela) and suggests that he spends ages picking the side for every game, when all he actually does is pretty much pick the same side every week unless he's forced to change it due to injury or suspension. He also described exactly the way we should have played against Chelsea, for example, and then didn't send the team out to do that at all.
Mowbray has an appalling record as a manager since leaving us. I liked him and the football his results overall were poor.Delivering our first league title since 1920, an FA Cup semi-final and a play-off final are poor?
Was and still is, 15 goals in 28 games for Malmo this season suggests there is pedigree so questions should be asked what went wrong here and why he wasn't given a proper chance in the role he does best as he seems to get elsewhere.
You must have heard me say this yesterday.
We have to look deep into our set up to find out why these players cant perform once here...........they all cant be bad.
Will that be the Kiely/Downing/Olsson/Reid/possibly Morrison clique? ::)
I maintain our biggest problem is with the Downing / Keily clique thing. It has always struck me that these people are too close to the players, some of whom have too much of a say in what goes on (hence the Mel situation).
I don't like the head coach thing, we need a manager and he needs to bring in his own staff that he knows and trusts.
Until Downing / Keily go and that clique amongst the players is dismantled we're always going to have a big problem.
I'd also add that their pedigree is very good, in terms of Ideye's goalscoring record, Blanco and Varela's caps for Argentina and Portugal, and Gamboa's performances for Costa Rica.Bit of a different twist, I imagine most supporters needed to Google our signings at the time not having heard of them.
Hard to see how they couldn't improve on the current clique really
I dont want Irvine sacked because sacking a manager every few months achieves nothing, sometimes sticking with somebody can work out (West Ham and Newcastle spring to mind)
However i think he does need to have a look at things, he came with a reputation for his teams been quite conservative but until the Bournemouth game i felt we were going in the right direction, not every game but most we we had a go, played football, created chances and okay we wasnt some outstanding attacking team but we havent been for years and we wasnt going to change overnight especially with the personnel.
Unfortunately over the last few weeks we seem to have gone backwards, we are too cautious and negative in our approach and thats usually a managers way of acknowledging they are under pressure, ie - dont get beat (Clarke did the same in his later days)
As somebody earlier was saying, whether we agree or not with the selections, Irvine works with them every day, he hands out who does what, etc and if he doesnt feel the players can do it, he wont pick them. I think Gamboa is a prime example of that, us as fans like him because he has pace and gets forward, its great for us to watch, but as a right back in a 4-4-2 your first job is surely to defend and he cannot defend, he is constantly out of position and will cost us goals, maybe in another formation we would see the best of him.
I think what could work in Irvines favour is that he can rightly drop a few of our players now and they cant really argue as we are playing poor and losing, its upto Irvine now, hopefully he can get back to been positive again.
That said his fate was sealed with some fans the day he was appointed and aside from us winning 5-0 every game which was never going to happen, he hasnt got a chance with some. If his name was Alain Irvinuez, he was foreign and he had had limited success at say Elche and Tenerife (clubs like Preston and Sheff Weds) then he would of got a lot better chance, we laughed at Villa for how they treated Mcleish yet we have done exactly the same with Irvine, we had been on a decent run of form until Newcastle and even before that game there was calls for him to go! When we have been rubbish its fair game to have a pop at him and the team, i will say it now, last 3 games i have been bored stupid.
However when we were doing okay it was deemed lucky, opposition were rubbish, played teams at the right time, etc even games when we have been entertaining (and there have been some) people wont acknowledge it and i think that negativity has been there from day one and sadly wont go til Irvine does, god help the next bloke who gets the job because judging by some fans, if we dont win the first few games under them easily with amazing football he will need to be sacked.
Totally agree. What have Downing and Kiely done during their coaching careers to justify their seemingly unsackable status? When Downing was given the chance as head coach, he played Gera at wing-back with Amalfitano behind the striker. Absolutely baffling and leaves you questioning the intellect of many of the so-called "respected" individuals in football. Kiely on the other hand can barely string a sentence together on Twitter, for what that's worth.Have they been coaches at a Premier League side that has maintained their status for the last few years?
Have they been coaches at a Premier League side that has maintained their status for the last few years?
Harry Redknapp has stated in court that he struggles to read and write yet the press wanted him as last England manager (I didn't ;))
Do you not think they will put that on their CV and pretty much walk into any any interview for a coaching job from the Championship downwards should they lose their jobs here?
Ok. So are you giving them the credit for that?
Do you not think they will put that on their CV and pretty much walk into any any interview for a coaching job from the Championship downwards should they lose their jobs here?
Not wishing to sound like an echo but do you not think that they will put that on their cv and pretty much walk into any interview for a coaching job from the Championship downwards?
They can put whatever they like on their CV's. CV's are just like coaching badges they don't mean you are good enough for a particular job. They are words on a piece of paper. Never have they held any responsibility. It always lies with the head coach - the successes and the failings.
Irvine is, unfortunately, as most of us feared when we heard of his shocking appointment, quickly showing how out of his depth he is at this level.If by keeping in the game against a top 6, Champions league side and having been denied the best opportunity to open the scoring by an incorrect decision by an official is how you quantify out of his depth, I agree he is out of his depth. I disagree that it was game over when we conceded as (apart from the offside decision) our best chances fell after their goal and apart from a counter attacking goal aside we had more opportunity to score.
Yesterday was the latest dross we had to sit through and endure..............whilst it was 0-0 you could say the end might have justified the means if we took a decent point.
HOWEVER, we know as we watched that Arsenal would eventually score and then what ? Basically game over and so it proved!
Like the Newcastle game, I mainly sat there without getting animated/excited/vocal like I usually do - bored and inevitable was more the thoughts for most of the game.
Plus points were the defence did pretty well against Arsenal's class attack with Lescott superb.
The weakness of the Gunners is there slow and vulnerable defence yet as we never got any numbers forward and only Sess could beat a player we made it so easy for them (not helped by star-struck Foy granted).
The West Ham game now becomes massive as the crowd are in no mood for another non-event against a team we should be beating at home.
And , yes, I'll be there still !!!!!
I don't like sacking managers / HC 's but at the same time i can't see any progress , you have to ask yourself can you see it getting any better under Irvine ?
If by keeping in the game against a top 6, Champions league side and having been denied the best opportunity to open the scoring by an incorrect decision by an official is how you quantify out of his depth, I agree he is out of his depth. I disagree that it was game over when we conceded as (apart from the offside decision) our best chances fell after their goal and apart from a counter attacking goal aside we had more opportunity to score.
The substitution of Sess for Samaras was also well made because Sess was ineffective at that point in the game (arguably so were others) and Samaras provided an extra dimension and only gave the ball once which he then got back.
Watch the game again. We started off positively in the first half, but let Arsenal become comfortable without creating lots of significant chances. We came out second half positively and should have had an opportunity to open the scoring with an excellent through ball from Gardener. We conceded and then caused them the most trouble they had been in (after taking Sess off).
But once they had scored we are again chasing a game and hoping to get lucky a nick a point.
We not show more positivity from the off and try a get in front ?
Samaras did ok and people were not booing him it was the fact that an quick offensive player was being taken off when the likes of Brunt, Dorrans or Gardner were kept on as usual despite contributing next to nothing attacking wise.....these three seem untouchable under Irvine.
Watch the game again. We started off positively in the first half, but let Arsenal become comfortable without creating lots of significant chances. We came out second half positively and should have had an opportunity to open the scoring with an excellent through ball from Gardener. We conceded and then caused them the most trouble they had been in (after taking Sess off).Respect your view mate but no way was that positive first half against a unsure Arsenal defence and a rookie keeper , Saido barely touched the ball and we didn't threaten either. As usual under Irvine we only had a go when we went behind but that turned to lofted balls into the box . Creating one chance per half and hoping for a lucky bounce or moment of brilliance isn't enough at this level . It's bad enough being bored at home watching this but even more going to the games , i really feel for the likes of OldburyWBA and the Jacko2000 going to every game at the moment and being bored rigid when we have a squad to do better , much better. To be honest I'm questioning why I'm going to Hull next week , it will be freezing , we won't attack until it's too late and will most likely lose.
I wouldn't have taken off Sess, I would have taken off Dorrans but that is where people have different opinions. The change of Sess for Samaras almost worked.
There is a big difference between playing defensively and playing for a 0-0, and Irvine has gone for a 0-0 the last two games. We aren't set up to counter with anyone but Sess and Berahino - nobody else even tries to get in support of them quickly. He must know that we can't score a goal with just two players, so I think his plan is that maybe they'll win a corner/naughty word and then we can put bodies in the box. It is ludicrous to think that , given our respective form, we could go to Chelsea and stop them scoring. But all he did was load the starting XI with defensive players and suddenly we are a goal down and have no threat of a counter. Why would you not start Anichebe who can at least (when putting a shift in) provide an out ball and give some respite as well as point to build attacks from.Great post.
It was the same story yesterday - even more criminal given Arsenal's defensive frailties and injuries. And then when we are losing his plan is to throw on loads of strikers but it's not clear how we intend to get the ball to them other than lumping it forward. Honestly it is so basic and thoughtless.
There is so much pressure on the next month or so now to get results. He needs to start having a go at teams, especially those we can realistically beat (eg Newcastle, which was embarrassing). It's a shame because I think on the whole we have a good enough squad to compete at mid-table but Irvine is restricting it's ability and if we go down we will lose these players without ever having let them play the best way they can.
It's curious how you accuse others of conjecture and then come out with stuff like this. As for them not being fit, he's not giving them gamer time to get them fit.
Constantly not giving players any game time and then stating they'll be needed during December is very poor management. If Irvine does suddenly start picking these players, and he's implied he'll do things before and then not done them, it'll be very difficult for them to go into games cold.
Although it is conjecture, one reason why Irvine doesn't select them could be that, if they did do well, he would be under pressure to keep them in the side and that would ruin his overall defensive "masterplan".
Delivering our first league title since 1920, an FA Cup semi-final and a play-off final are poor?
Not a chance, Irvine is a dinosaur.
Unfortunately, just like his use of substitutes, his sacking will only happen when it is to late.
Is Roy our manager again. Remember the exact same being said.
Even if we do there are clearly problems with our scouting network and player recruitment. Baird/Samaras/Ideye/Davidson/Varela are either not good enough or chronically unfit 3 1/2 months into the season!There's another option with the more attacking players (including Blanco), which is that the head coach is too defensively-minded (or scared - take your pick) to find it in him to play them.
I,m sorry to say reading this thread is like I have just turned on my PC for the 1st time in 2 years ! Has anything changed at this club in the last 24 months ?.
yes managers have come and gone and none of them had the pedigree to run a premier league club (except Hodgson).
We all keep blaming the manager ,But what about the backroom staff have they no say in what tactics we play and how we shape up?.
I,m sorry but why oh why are Downing and kieley still at the club? We have been going down the slippery slope for 4-5 years now.
By now we should be an established premier club who have moved forward and improved the playing staff as we go so why do we still have Brunt, Morrison , Mulumbu, Dorrans ect ect still playing in the team when all have them have been here for a number of years now and not shown any improvement in there play over the last 2 years?.
Also if the plan is year on year improvement surely that MUST include the backroom club because they have not improved in fact they have got worse!.
And lets be honest what decent manager would except a job with the first thing you have to except is " the backroom staff are here to stay you cant bring your own in"
Do you think any decent manager would work at a club under those circumstances
Pepe Mel out of work took the job
Steve Clarke 1st managers job
so on and so on
Come on Mr Peace its time you made a decision on the future of this club and invested in a proper manager who will install the winning attitude into the team instead of this crass boring rubbish I,m watching now......a manager with confidence in his own ability!.
PS shocking state !
1996 arsen wenger appointed manager 1 Manager in 18 years
the baggies 27 YES 27 managers in the same time !
Please please invest in a top manager were supposed to be a top club in the top league in the world try were not little or QPR, we are WEST BROMWICH ALBION a club steeped in history try showing some pride in your work and that means all staff from boardroom to playing field!
You need to do something soon Mr Peace before this club dies because what we are watching right now is some of the most boring football I have ever seen at the club and the price people have to pay to watch it your going to start to lose fans which at the end of the day are the life and sole of any club.
Its time to be BRAVE ........I,ll come back in another 2 years to see if anythings changed!
Peace has to take a large portion of the blame with the goings on up at the hawthorns. We must be the laughing stock of football at the minute a club that changes head coaches every other day but keeps the back room staff appointed by peace. Unable to control our prize asset who will leave the club if they keep on dithering over contract, he's young and foolish but he should be supported by administration. Chose the cheap option when picking coach and look where he's leading us
if i knew his e mail address i would!!
Those comparing him to Hodgson, and saying they're similar are right in some ways.
Both set up to be more organised, defensively solid.
Difference being that RH managed it successfully - with a weaker squad imo. I mean, Jerome Thomas was our main attacking threat down the wing. Now we have a Portuguese national winger who can't get a bloody look in.
The football under RH wasn't exciting, but it delivered decent results, and RH had a rapport with the fans. AI lacks both of these things and needs to be removed.
From my few contacts at the club, it seem's the club's management are becoming restless which is why if we lose vs West Ham, I belive he'll be gone before the Hull game.
Gone by Hull and another six weeks for a replacment.I fear we can't afford six weeks when you take into account our end to the season. Especially when you take into account that Downing and Kiely will presumably take charge of the interim matches.
This is going to drag on for a while I feel.
Gone by Hull and another six weeks for a replacment.
This is going to drag on for a while I feel.
Six weeks to end up with another number two to come and work alongside the likes of Downing and Kiely..That's the worry. There are very few appropriate domestic coaches, so I think realistically we'd have to look abroad, which Peace won't. Which is a shame, because if we brought in an English-speaker with the appropriate experience I think it could work.
I don't see the club going foreign again after the Pepe experiment so I would imagine we will narrow our search to Britain. The list of out of work managers is hardly inspiring and the one which will appeal most to supporters (supporters who derided him for so long) will not touch us with a barge pole.
I fear we can't afford six weeks when you take into account our end to the season. Especially when you take into account that Downing and Kiely will presumably take charge of the interim matches.
My only hope is that they're already thinking about potential replacements, and are willing to be more flexible in terms of backroom staff and paying compensation, which would speed the whole thing up. Not to mention foregoing "due diligence" where that includes interviewing the likes of Dave Jones...
I think Dave Jones would tip me over the edge, but I could see it happening which is the worrying thing.Yes I've been thinking that for a while. Knowing our luck, Peace would reinstate them to the coaching staff after they got us relegated!
This is exactly why i'm cautious of getting rid of Irvine, yes he's negative and yes the football is boring but he's doing what is asked so far and that is keeping us out of relegation zone.
The alternative options of Dave Jones or a dream team of Downing and Kiely fill me with dread.
The only positive I can see in apppointing Downing and Kiely is that means they'll be out of the club quicker.
I think Dave Jones would tip me over the edge, but I could see it happening which is the worrying thing.
This is exactly why i'm cautious of getting rid of Irvine, yes he's negative and yes the football is boring but he's doing what is asked so far and that is keeping us out of relegation zone.
The alternative options of Dave Jones or a dream team of Downing and Kiely fill me with dread.
The only positive I can see in apppointing Downing and Kiely is that means they'll be out of the club quicker.
The worrying thing for me about Dave Jones is that Terry Burton has worked alongside him at both Cardiff City and Sheffield Wednesday.With luck, Peace will think twice before listening to Burton's recommendations after he recommended Irvine...
Jones is another man on his way out - he is lazy and would be a disaster in my opinion. It has been mentioned on this forum that our players have been on easy streak for far too long and that would only get worse under Jones whose attitude to training doesn't fit with the ethos that this club operates with.
I don't think I could cope with his arrogance either.
If by keeping in the game against a top 6, Champions league side and having been denied the best opportunity to open the scoring by an incorrect decision by an official is how you quantify out of his depth, I agree he is out of his depth. I disagree that it was game over when we conceded as (apart from the offside decision) our best chances fell after their goal and apart from a counter attacking goal aside we had more opportunity to score.
The substitution of Sess for Samaras was also well made because Sess was ineffective at that point in the game (arguably so were others) and Samaras provided an extra dimension and only gave the ball once which he then got back.
Let's see how we are doing after Christmas, some good results in the next few weeks and things will be looking better. Look at the Pardew situation at Newcastle, no reason why Irvine can't win over the majority in time.
Let's see how we are doing after Christmas, some good results in the next few weeks and things will be looking better. Look at the Pardew situation at Newcastle, no reason why Irvine can't win over the majority in time.What have you seen that makes you believe things are about to get better? (other than the fact the football couldn't possibly get worse). I don't rate Pardew at all but even he's had past success to some degree. The same can't be said of Irvine.
Let's see how we are doing after Christmas, some good results in the next few weeks and things will be looking better. Look at the Pardew situation at Newcastle, no reason why Irvine can't win over the majority in time.Not about results alone though is it, if you read the majority of posts the overwhelming gripe is the style of play.
Let's see how we are doing after Christmas, some good results in the next few weeks and things will be looking better. Look at the Pardew situation at Newcastle, no reason why Irvine can't win over the majority in time.That's up to Irvine starting against West Ham , the tools are there in the squad . A few more bad results and performances and i 'd say that's his lot and the search starts again.
What have you seen that makes you believe things are about to get better? (other than the fact the football couldn't possibly get worse). I don't rate Pardew at all but even he's had past success to some degree. The same can't be said of Irvine.
Let's see how we are doing after Christmas, some good results in the next few weeks and things will be looking better. Look at the Pardew situation at Newcastle, no reason why Irvine can't win over the majority in time.
Let's see how we are doing after Christmas, some good results in the next few weeks and things will be looking better. Look at the Pardew situation at Newcastle, no reason why Irvine can't win over the majority in time.
You need someone who won't see us as a stepping stone. Both Neville and Southgate (too nice anyway) would be waiting for a big job to come along. Pulis who I believe we should 100% go for has whether fair or not built his own glass ceiling with his first few years at Stoke. A bigger club than us/Stoke/Palarse would not take him on. Get rid of Irvine and the chuckle brothers, get rid of Burton and Day. Pool their combined wage and give it to Pulis and 2 coaches of his choosing on a minimum 3 year contract.
Only 3 points above the bottom team, all below us have better battling qualities than West Brom, leave it 'til after Christmas and it will be too late.
Alan Irvine is really a nice bloke, I met him a few weeks ago. That's has far as it goes though. The bloke is not a leader of men. If he is supposed to be a great coach why didn't he get the Everton job at any stage. Moyes would have surely put in a good word. What's he done in football apart from fail. He needs to go now. The players we have are better than their performances suggest . With the right manager with a football philosophy of winning we have so much to look forward to. Act now peace before it's too late. You carry on with him you loose the supporters and your potential sale. God help us if he takes us down and we continue with him. The villa will be my last home game until this footballing dross of a nightmare is overwhy didn't he get any job.
It's amusing how many of the same people who call Irvine boring want Pulis. Most his teams score less goals than games a season, its a very dull style of football. His away record at Stoke was usually atrocious because they never had any intent to win.
He's effective in terms of he'll get 40-45 points a season usually but its hilarious how quickly things change. Pulis plays an extremely direct style with a target man and trying to pick up second balls. You get people trying to claim his Palace side was good to watch yet they scored 27 in 27 games under him. We've scored 13 in 13 under Irvine. Under Pulis if the other team scored first, Palace very rarely ever scored. Because of how defensive they set up. It was even worse at Stoke. We don't even have the luxury of the pacey wingers he likes. This is a man who with a big budget kept playing Mama Sidibe till he eventually got a serious injury and he had to stop playing him.
The same people moaning about Irvine and crying for Pulis will be the same people who when Pulis kept us up on 43 points having scored 15 goals in 22 games under him or whatever, would be the exact same people saying staying up isn't worth it for that style of football.
Adkins was doing better at Southampton than AI is doing here, but I don't see him as the answer. Pulis would shake the club up to the core, which is what's needed
It's amusing how many of the same people who call Irvine boring want Pulis. Most his teams score less goals than games a season, its a very dull style of football. His away record at Stoke was usually atrocious because they never had any intent to win.
He's effective in terms of he'll get 40-45 points a season usually but its hilarious how quickly things change. Pulis plays an extremely direct style with a target man and trying to pick up second balls. You get people trying to claim his Palace side was good to watch yet they scored 27 in 27 games under him. We've scored 13 in 13 under Irvine. Under Pulis if the other team scored first, Palace very rarely ever scored. Because of how defensive they set up. It was even worse at Stoke. We don't even have the luxury of the pacey wingers he likes. This is a man who with a big budget kept playing Mama Sidibe till he eventually got a serious injury and he had to stop playing him.
The same people moaning about Irvine and crying for Pulis will be the same people who when Pulis kept us up on 43 points having scored 15 goals in 22 games under him or whatever, would be the exact same people saying staying up isn't worth it for that style of football.
It's amusing how many of the same people who call Irvine boring want Pulis. Most his teams score less goals than games a season, its a very dull style of football. His away record at Stoke was usually atrocious because they never had any intent to win.
He's effective in terms of he'll get 40-45 points a season usually but its hilarious how quickly things change. Pulis plays an extremely direct style with a target man and trying to pick up second balls. You get people trying to claim his Palace side was good to watch yet they scored 27 in 27 games under him. We've scored 13 in 13 under Irvine. Under Pulis if the other team scored first, Palace very rarely ever scored. Because of how defensive they set up. It was even worse at Stoke. We don't even have the luxury of the pacey wingers he likes. This is a man who with a big budget kept playing Mama Sidibe till he eventually got a serious injury and he had to stop playing him.
The same people moaning about Irvine and crying for Pulis will be the same people who when Pulis kept us up on 43 points having scored 15 goals in 22 games under him or whatever, would be the exact same people saying staying up isn't worth it for that style of football.
Pulis is more similar to Gary Megson than AI and doesn't mince his words. AI is someone content to slot into a sh#te jigsaw puzzle
Pulis will not work with a director of football either and he certainly won't like our budgets.
He had a free purse at Stoke, spent a bucket load of money (money we could only dream of) and his style got progressively worse each year.
I do find it surprising that those who state they want to see entertainment are championing the appointment of Tony Pulis.
I'm not moaning about style of play to be honest we don't have any sort of plan bar defend under irvine he's clearly out his depth with us and pulis is clearly not, its like hodgson style of football pulis and I tell you now I was never moaning about hodgson style, an example of pulis teams is the game palace Liverpool last season had that been Albion Liverpool under Irvine can you honestly see us coming back to draw 3-3 no chance, to be honest your points about pulis I don't agree with, wasn't there a stat that when pulis took charge of palace if the season had started then palace would be top 6 Irvine= relegation Pulis=safety (easily)
Pulis will not work with a director of football either and he certainly won't like our budgets.I think the reason posters are suggesting pulis is that the players need a kick up the backside, similar to how megson reshaped us, personally I wouldn't want pulis but hes a safe bet but would prefer someone with a better style of football.
He had a free purse at Stoke, spent a bucket load of money (money we could only dream of) and his style got progressively worse each year.
I do find it surprising that those who state they want to see entertainment are championing the appointment of Tony Pulis.
Pulis isn't anything like Hodgson. Pulis sets up his side with a bunch of very tall players, trained to be very good at pieces, with a big target man up front. They play pacey wingers who's job it is to get corners, or win throws so they can launch it in the box. In general play its either shunt it out to the wing or hoof it up to the big man to win the second ball.
Irvine's way more like Hodgson in set up (playing a congested midfield, wingers used defensively). Just firstly Hodgson was a better manager so the system worked better under him, and secondly the players Hodgson had were a better fit for said system.
Saying that Pulis drew 3-3 with Liverpool is like saying us beating Burnley 4-0 an example of an Irvine team. Pulis is what he is. He'll keep teams up but he won't do much better than that. At Stoke he spent one of the highest net amounts in the league and repeatedly wasted the money, bought in poor players and they never improved.
But suddenly a good run of form with Palace and he's Corberan who plays amazing football. Don't make me laugh. Anyone who dared to complain when we beat Leicester 1-0 that we didn't deserve it, then claims they want Pulis who wins games in a similar way needs their head checking.
If all you want is to stay up and you want Pulis then fair enough, but did people who want him and good football only start watching football in April?
We lack pace, width and guile, this is supposedly understood and recognised within the club. Why is it then we have a Portuguese and an Argentinian international, both of whom are wingers yet neither one is making the bench? It really is baffling. There are a few murmurings that they have failed to impress on the training field, maybe so, but it’s not like we are championing a pair of El Ghanassy type characters here, these are experienced footballers with genuine pedigree.good post and your correct in that he only needs 2/3 personnel changes to make the team more of a threat at home.
It’s all a little Robson-esc for me, I remember feeling so frustrated that we had Kanu and Earnshaw rotting on the sidelines while a shot Kevin Campbell floundered up front on his own and it’s kind of a similar scenario now.
I don’t dislike Irvine at all, I think he comes across as a personable bloke, he speaks well, is enthusiastic and I believe him to be an excellent coach. However he needs to get his head out his backside with this overly conservative approach (especially at home) or he’ll be gone as it’s simply not working. We need to take the game to sides at home, that’s all I ask. What is even more disheartening is that I actually think we have a half decent squad and the team just needs 2/3 adjustments - I hope he makes them for his sake and ours.
good post and your correct in that he only needs 2/3 personnel changes to make the team more of a threat at home.
ie Valero for brunt.
ie gamboa for wisdom.
2 small changes that give us a bit of width and attack with pace.
whats he got to lose by trying it because it sure as hell isn't working at the moment.
I agree. Pulis is the manager you hire to rescue you in February. He's not the man you hire with a 3-year plan.
The changes will only work if Irvine gives them license to play.
They will be pretty much redundant if Irvine restricts them.
I think the reason posters are suggesting pulis is that the players need a kick up the backside, similar to how megson reshaped us, personally I wouldn't want pulis but hes a safe bet but would prefer someone with a better style of football.Trouble is who can get us playing attractively and get the results we need. We're slipping into a relegation battle with a horrible run in, so something needs to happen fast.
Absolutely agree! Many posters on this forum have been suggesting these changes for weeks now....why cant the coaching staff see what we see...its so obvious!
Jacko must have been on the sauce suggesting Pulis?
No Pulis, Hodgson, Clarke or Irvine please. I struggle to believe the love in for Hodgson tbh. I was never a fan of his football. The one thing RH really has is a kind of gravitas none of our other recent coaches have had. Unfortunately it seems RH still somehow manages to influence decisions at our club. We need a new approach, that is very clear.
Not for me, Valero would come in on the right, Brunt doesn't lose his place as our most threatening midfielder. Gamboa and Varela to give our dysfunctional right hand side a massive lift.
I'm serious mate. The football will be better than what we have had from Clarke and Irvine, Pulis will shake things up behind the scenes, something that is much needed. He also galvanises supporters with his seige mentality. Wouldn't it be nice to keep a clean sheet at home. I sat there on Saturday lunchtime thinking when not if Arsenal would score. Foster did well with the Welbeck one on one, but it was only ever a matter of time.
I wished we'd stuck with Mel and all the fun that would have yielded, but something inside the club is broken and it needs fixing. There's no better man for the job imo.
Well I agree with your goals. I agree something is seriously out of whack at the club on the higher level when it comes to strategy and choice of managers. JP needs to identify the problem here and deal with it. We have had an obvious deficiency since DA left, and even he could not do everything on his own. I agree we need someone to break up the cliques. But we also need someone with a style that can bring the club forward and Pulis is not that man. Even Stoke gave up on him.
We need someone who plays football that doesn't make the fans lose the will to live. Someone who is competent enough to play one style of football against one opponent, and another style against another when needed, depending on the situation and the strength and weakness of our opponents.
No more dinosaurs and throwbacks and upjumped number 2s.
Is that too much to ask?
You tell me?
Who fits the criteria that is available?
To be fair football is the only profession where you can fail multiple times and still get a top job. Coaches the same. They will all have some success in their careers but the poorer parts always get glossed over.
If JP was to let AI goI don't think we can worry about style of play when we're slipping into a relegation battle, we need to go out with the attitude to try and win matches. JP will be thinking about his investment if it's a head coach or manager, but this setup is not working.
1st------JP needs to look into a style of football that he want's to see us play home & away, one he & us would appreciate "hopefully"
2 ------ One that he can afford to implement
3------- Look at if the head coach thing to see if its worth persisting with (I think he would stick with this but hope he didn't)
4------- Then look for the man/men to fulfill that list.
I think Peace wouldn't touch Pulis purely from a financial standpoint. Obviously he's a great businessman but seems to avoid 'risks' which he would see Pulis as.
Apart from Pulis I see very few options unfortunately. We've tried foreign, we've done up-and-coming and now we've got Irvine.
McLaren, Southgate, and Adkins would be my shortlist.
JP's shortlist would I suspect be more like Jones, Hughton, McLeish, Keane, McCoist and McDermott......
McLaren, Southgate, and Adkins would be my shortlist.
JP's shortlist would I suspect be more like Jones, Hughton, McLeish, Keane, McCoist and McDermott......
Let's see how we are doing after Christmas, some good results in the next few weeks and things will be looking better. Look at the Pardew situation at Newcastle, no reason why Irvine can't win over the majority in time.
Fed up of Irvine. Fed up of his approach and quite frankly bullsh*t that he picks the team based on the opposition yet we've seen the same players week in week out.
How does a guy that has Champions league and world cup experience and qaulity not even make the bench. You tell the fans he is fit, yet he doesn't get a look in. How can he overlook the only natural width we have?
On Saturday Irvine for me got it wrong again with subs, he brought on Anichebe which isolated and bypassed Sess. Then that meant he had to take off Sess and bring on Samaras. The fans were spot on in the assessment of that decision. At that point I thought Sess was the only who having an impact and running at Arsenal.
Don't think I can take much more of Irvine. Negative, sideways, dull, rubbish. I can see us going into the Villa game very low on confidence having been turned over by both West Ham and Hull.
Oh and those slating Pulis, his side finished 6 wins and 9 points better off than us last season.
There is an Albion press conference at 2pm today. I hope the journos attending will demand some answers from Irvine about his puzzling team selections and tactics.Part of the problem they never ask any trying questions.
There is an Albion press conference at 2pm today. I hope the journos attending will demand some answers from Irvine about his puzzling team selections and tactics.
Part of the problem they never ask any trying questions.
There is an Albion press conference at 2pm today. I hope the journos attending will demand some answers from Irvine about his puzzling team selections and tactics.
There is an Albion press conference at 2pm today. I hope the journos attending will demand some answers from Irvine about his puzzling team selections and tactics.
what choice does he have to change things for tomorrows game.He selects the same team with a similar performance he knows what hes now up against
JP will know he got away with it last season and support stuck by the club despite an awful season , now we appear to be going down the same road i can see him pulling the trigger quicker if things don't improve. JP can't possibly be happy spending that much money on fees and wages on the Summer signings and most don't feature despite some poor results and performances.
He has just got to go nowMate my bet is that we will have him a bit longer :o
He works 13-14 hours a day you know, says so in today's Mail. Seems to want credit for his commitment, however, if he is working that many hours and coming up with the same negative rubbish, he should maybe give up and get some early nights.
His musings are getting more and more ridiculous.
"We want to have as many attacking options as we possibly can...."
Which is why he has no attacking midfielders (unless you count Samaras as one) on the bench of course.
He works 13-14 hours a day you know, says so in today's Mail. Seems to want credit for his commitment, however, if he is working that many hours and coming up with the same negative rubbish, he should maybe give up and get some early nights.sick of hearing how many hours he works, give a monkey an airfix model to build, even if he does 24/7 but assembles it wrong it shows it to be a waste of time and proves he doesn't know what he's doing.
His musings are getting more and more ridiculous.
sick of hearing how many hours he works, give a monkey an airfix model to build, even if he does 24/7 but assembles it wrong it shows it to be a waste of time and proves he doesn't know what he's doing.
Pepe Mel gets his name sung after winning 3 games in 17 and nearly relegating us with his methodsThe reason for that was because he was brought in specifically to introduce a new way of playing and yet wasn't backed by either the board or the other coaches in any way, shape or form. Blame him for that if you want, but I don't.
Need a more positive performance in the West Ham game without question but I hope the atmosphere is good because it can make a difference.
Here's a quote from Alan Irvine after the Nottingham Forest away game two weeks before season start.
“You can see we’ve got some lads having to play out of position - like Craig Gardner and Graham Dorrans - not because I want them to play out of position but because that’s where we are at the moment."
Here we are on Dec 1st and he's still playing Dorrans out wide.
But he'd rather do that than play Varela, Gamboa or Blanco there.
Sorry but he must go NOW!
I felt sorry for him on Saturday, he doesn't deserve half the stick he gets from the fans in my opinion. Pepe Mel gets his name sung after winning 3 games in 17 and nearly relegating us with his methods yet Irvine gets a tough time from the beginning. Need a more positive performance in the West Ham game without question but I hope the atmosphere is good because it can make a difference.
It's going to get a lot lot worse before it gets better, that's for sure!that's the frustrating thing about this situation, the next 4 games could see us claim 50% of the points required to stay in this league but I've no confidence whatsoever this will be achieved with Irvine at the helm.
The reason for that was because he was brought in specifically to introduce a new way of playing and yet wasn't backed by either the board or the other coaches in any way, shape or form. Blame him for that if you want, but I don't.
If the team play with intent, spirit and on the front foot from the off I don't think the atmosphere will be a problem. If its more of the same, then it could turn ugly.
that's the frustrating thing about this situation, the next 4 games could see us claim 50% of the points required to stay in this league but I've no confidence whatsoever this will be achieved with Irvine at the helm.
Surely one look at our defence would have told him that a pressing game wasn't going to work? We had one of the league's slowest defence. He also didn't have the capability of lifting morale in the dressing room and the players couldn't understand what his instructions were. I also thought Mel got on well with Downing and Kiely, I remember him saying they helped him a lot or something along those lines. It was a tough job for him being his first job in England but Irvine also has a tough job taking over the team who finished 17th and lost a lot of it's players with morale at an all time low.do you think mel would have done better with the current squad if he was still in charge, we have a much quicker defence than last season. I would have given him a full season with a transfer window to recruit players he needed and his own coach set up. I never understood the players complaining about communication problems, all team are multi national now and its just as difficult for the manager to understand players as it is players understanding the manager.
Agree with that, we need to be more positive at home without a doubt.If you read Irvine's summary of the Arsenal game we were on the front foot from the off against Arsenal! The fact that it took 60 odd minutes to muster a shot appears lost on him, unless by front foot he means 'not losing'
::)It's a terrifying thought that one man- Alan Irvine- could decide these players' futures here. There's absolutely no way these players should go simply because he refuses to play them in his ultra negative style. They're internationals with proven quality.
Alan Irvine prepared to offload five of West Brom's summer signings in January as he seeks winning formula
West Brom manager admits he's been disappointed with many of his summer signings, who we accepts were rushed in out of necessity
Overhaul: Alan Irvine is planning to revamp his squad in January By John Percy11:21AM GMT 01 Dec 2014
Alan Irvine is ready to jettison five of West Bromwich Albion’s summer signings as he prepares to revamp his squad in January.
Irvine will allow Portugal international Silvestre Varela, Chris Baird, Jason Davidson and Sebastian Blanco to leave while the future of £10million record signing Brown Ideye remains uncertain.
Albion signed 10 players over the summer in a frantic bid to strengthen the squad but many of them have failed to impress, with Varela failing to make a Premier League appearance so far.
The 29-year-old winger, who played and scored at the World Cup, signed on a season-long loan from Porto and Albion are already looking into the possibility of scrapping the deal in the New Year.
Baird, Davidson and Blanco have also had limited opportunities and though they may be given games over the Christmas period, they are effectively fighting for their futures before the January transfer window opens
Ideye, the club’s marquee signing from Dynamo Kiev, is still on the fringes of the squad and though there is a determination to help him emerge from his troubled start, a short-term move to a European club could be an option.
Irvine has already admitted that the club’s recruitment policy over the summer was rushed out of necessity, after 13 players departed at the end of last season.
But he has still been disappointed with the lack of impact from many of the squad’s new arrivals and will allow some of them to leave to fund new signings.
Joel Campbell, the Arsenal and Costa Rica forward, has been linked with a loan move to the Hawthorns yet Albion are more concerned with finding potential new clubs for their fringe players.
Albion could receive offers for Sweden international Jonas Olsson in January but insist he will not be sold.
Read more at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-bromwich-albion/11265034/Alan-Irvine-prepared-to-offload-five-of-West-Broms-summer-signings-in-January-as-he-seeks-winning-formula.html
Can only imagine what would happen if we let Irvine loose with signings of his own :o
::)funny how the old guard isn't mentioned ,the ones who are actually playing week in week out and letting us down, but players who never play need replacing .i despair at what replacements he will target no doubt for every attacking player released a defensive one will be recruited.
Alan Irvine prepared to offload five of West Brom's summer signings in January as he seeks winning formula
West Brom manager admits he's been disappointed with many of his summer signings, who we accepts were rushed in out of necessity
Overhaul: Alan Irvine is planning to revamp his squad in January By John Percy11:21AM GMT 01 Dec 2014
Alan Irvine is ready to jettison five of West Bromwich Albion’s summer signings as he prepares to revamp his squad in January.
Irvine will allow Portugal international Silvestre Varela, Chris Baird, Jason Davidson and Sebastian Blanco to leave while the future of £10million record signing Brown Ideye remains uncertain.
Albion signed 10 players over the summer in a frantic bid to strengthen the squad but many of them have failed to impress, with Varela failing to make a Premier League appearance so far.
The 29-year-old winger, who played and scored at the World Cup, signed on a season-long loan from Porto and Albion are already looking into the possibility of scrapping the deal in the New Year.
Baird, Davidson and Blanco have also had limited opportunities and though they may be given games over the Christmas period, they are effectively fighting for their futures before the January transfer window opens
Ideye, the club’s marquee signing from Dynamo Kiev, is still on the fringes of the squad and though there is a determination to help him emerge from his troubled start, a short-term move to a European club could be an option.
Irvine has already admitted that the club’s recruitment policy over the summer was rushed out of necessity, after 13 players departed at the end of last season.
But he has still been disappointed with the lack of impact from many of the squad’s new arrivals and will allow some of them to leave to fund new signings.
Joel Campbell, the Arsenal and Costa Rica forward, has been linked with a loan move to the Hawthorns yet Albion are more concerned with finding potential new clubs for their fringe players.
Albion could receive offers for Sweden international Jonas Olsson in January but insist he will not be sold.
Read more at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-bromwich-albion/11265034/Alan-Irvine-prepared-to-offload-five-of-West-Broms-summer-signings-in-January-as-he-seeks-winning-formula.html
Can only imagine what would happen if we let Irvine loose with signings of his own :o
Varela - 115 Games for Porto , 30 goals.When you combine that with Blanco, Ideye and Gamboa's consistent exclusion, it's almost enough on it's own for Irvine to be sent packing.
- 26 Games for Portugal , 5 goals.
Fit for a few weeks now yet can't even get on our bench ahead of Baird etc ?
Baffling.
::)
Alan Irvine prepared to offload five of West Brom's summer signings in January as he seeks winning formula
West Brom manager admits he's been disappointed with many of his summer signings, who we accepts were rushed in out of necessity
Overhaul: Alan Irvine is planning to revamp his squad in January By John Percy11:21AM GMT 01 Dec 2014
Alan Irvine is ready to jettison five of West Bromwich Albion’s summer signings as he prepares to revamp his squad in January.
Irvine will allow Portugal international Silvestre Varela, Chris Baird, Jason Davidson and Sebastian Blanco to leave while the future of £10million record signing Brown Ideye remains uncertain.
Albion signed 10 players over the summer in a frantic bid to strengthen the squad but many of them have failed to impress, with Varela failing to make a Premier League appearance so far.
The 29-year-old winger, who played and scored at the World Cup, signed on a season-long loan from Porto and Albion are already looking into the possibility of scrapping the deal in the New Year.
Baird, Davidson and Blanco have also had limited opportunities and though they may be given games over the Christmas period, they are effectively fighting for their futures before the January transfer window opens
Ideye, the club’s marquee signing from Dynamo Kiev, is still on the fringes of the squad and though there is a determination to help him emerge from his troubled start, a short-term move to a European club could be an option.
Irvine has already admitted that the club’s recruitment policy over the summer was rushed out of necessity, after 13 players departed at the end of last season.
But he has still been disappointed with the lack of impact from many of the squad’s new arrivals and will allow some of them to leave to fund new signings.
Joel Campbell, the Arsenal and Costa Rica forward, has been linked with a loan move to the Hawthorns yet Albion are more concerned with finding potential new clubs for their fringe players.
Albion could receive offers for Sweden international Jonas Olsson in January but insist he will not be sold.
Read more at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/west-bromwich-albion/11265034/Alan-Irvine-prepared-to-offload-five-of-West-Broms-summer-signings-in-January-as-he-seeks-winning-formula.html
Can only imagine what would happen if we let Irvine loose with signings of his own :o
When you combine that with Blanco, Ideye and Varela's consistent exclusion, it's almost enough on it's own for Irvine to be sent packing.It's certainly a smack in the face for Burton and co , I'm sorry to say Irvine's a nice bloke and i wanted him to do well but I'm tired of watching awful football . I have no idea who we would get but things are not going to improve under Irvine.
does anyone else think we have potentially an exciting attacking bunch of footballers at our disposalI certainly do. Such a shame we'll never get to see them play and they'll never get their opportunity thanks to a single, archaic manager
does anyone else think we have potentially an exciting attacking bunch of footballers at our disposalYes i do , unless I'm missing something behind closed doors this job should be fairly straight forward .
Just trying to list potential replacements (the more likely ones anyway).
The list isn't great in truth.
Martin Jol
Dave Jones
Steve Clarke
Tony Pulis
Pepe Mel
Alan Curbishley
Steve McClaren
Eddie Howe
Gareth Southgate
None of the available ones fill me with much excitement tbh. Any i've missed?
Just trying to list potential replacements (the more likely ones anyway).I've been impressed with McInnes at Aberdeen but it is only Scottish football.
The list isn't great in truth.
Martin Jol
Dave Jones
Steve Clarke
Tony Pulis
Pepe Mel
Alan Curbishley
Steve McClaren
Eddie Howe
Gareth Southgate
None of the available ones fill me with much excitement tbh. Any i've missed?
does anyone else think we have potentially an exciting attacking bunch of footballers at our disposalyeah a few some ain't up to it though and I would look to build on valera, Berahino, Lescott, poco, the rest ain't much cop if you ask me oh and foster of course.
I've been impressed with McInnes at Aberdeen but it is only Scottish football.
does anyone else think we have potentially an exciting attacking bunch of footballers at our disposalwithout a doubt, but how will we ever know how good it could be if its never tried. just sick and tired of hearing about his poxy excuses after every match. quality international players not good enough for albion according to man whose managerial cv is pathetic.
Varela - 115 Games for Porto , 30 goals.
- 26 Games for Portugal , 5 goals.
Fit for a few weeks now yet can't even get on our bench ahead of Baird etc ?
Baffling. "Haven't impressed on the training pitch " is something seen regarding these players in the local press , sorry you don't play 150 times for Porto in Varela's case and train badly and the other signings fall in the same issue IMO.
Too much talk of those who aren't performing on the training pitch, what about those who aren't performing on a Saturday?Exactly mate , i refuse to accept this training pitch line for all of those players ....you simply don't play at the level some of these players have if you don't train correctly ...maybe it's Irvine's training methods that are wrong .
Just trying to list potential replacements (the more likely ones anyway).
The list isn't great in truth.
Martin Jol
Dave Jones
Steve Clarke
Tony Pulis
Pepe Mel
Alan Curbishley
Steve McClaren
Eddie Howe
Gareth Southgate
None of the available ones fill me with much excitement tbh. Any i've missed?
Too much talk of those who aren't performing on the training pitch, what about those who aren't performing on a Saturday?
Just trying to list potential replacements (the more likely ones anyway).
The list isn't great in truth.
Martin Jol
Dave Jones
Steve Clarke
Tony Pulis
Pepe Mel
Alan Curbishley
Steve McClaren
Eddie Howe
Gareth Southgate
None of the available ones fill me with much excitement tbh. Any i've missed?
Just trying to list potential replacements (the more likely ones anyway).things are bad enough, please please don't put dave jones on any potential replacements, just couldn't take it.
The list isn't great in truth.
Martin Jol
Dave Jones
Steve Clarke
Tony Pulis
Pepe Mel
Alan Curbishley
Steve McClaren
Eddie Howe
Gareth Southgate
None of the available ones fill me with much excitement tbh. Any i've missed?
What we need is someone like Gary Rowett.Arrives at Birmingham, who are in the relegation zone,states that was has happened before means nothing,everyone gets a chance to prove themselves and hey presto,Players suddenly get a belief and they start winning!
Irvine has already decided that half the Summer signings are no good without even giving them a chance and allowing apathy to develop within the rest of the squad! Players being picked no matter how poor they are playing,in a system that inspires no one,creates no problems for the opposition,and has helped the Home support to become disillusioned before a ball has even been kicked!
Supporters will vote with their feet and stay away! Those that attend the home matches will become more and more hostile if results and performances don't improve.JP has only himself to blame for what was and still is an appalling appointment
can we have a new poll to see if theres much change in peoples opinions.
I ticked stay by mistake. How can I amend it? >:(Tick go twice? :)
I ticked stay by mistake. How can I amend it? >:(
Try the remove vote option and vote again. One time offer nly as once you have done that option will be removed :D
Precisely works both ways doesn't it. Could be terrible in training but great on the pitch. I'd put money on the likes of Berbatov being terrible in training apart from tricks, but produces magic on the pitch.You do start to wonder if the likes of Mozza, Dorrans, Gardener, Brunt et al are displaying that great British spirit by busting an absolute gut in training every week, impressing AI, Dingle Downing and Kiely with their huff and bluster and ensuring selection. While the foreign lads are perhaps slightly more cultured and less intense in the way they train.
Are they not hitting the 'red zones' he likes to talk about? ::)
poll reset as requested with an UNDECIDED option addedthanks, theres a lot of quick voting going on.
Tweet from WM : #wba Irvine says he was "hurt, stung and taken aback" by fans' reaction to Sessegnon being replaced by Samaras on Saturday.
You're absolutely deluded Alan. You knew the fans didn't want you, someone must have told you the fans want width. Yet you come out with stupid comments like this.
How clueless is this guy? He must live in a dream world where Dorrans is a pacy winger and Varela and Blanco are defensive mids.
Just trying to list potential replacements (the more likely ones anyway).
The list isn't great in truth.
Martin Jol - possible
Dave Jones
Steve Clarke
Tony Pulis
Pepe Mel
Alan Curbishley
Steve McClaren
Eddie Howe
Gareth Southgate
None of the available ones fill me with much excitement tbh. Any i've missed?
Well the polling so far looks like a middle finger. Make of that what you will ;)
Tweet from WM : #wba Irvine says he was "hurt, stung and taken aback" by fans' reaction to Sessegnon being replaced by Samaras on Saturday.He does seem to be on a different planet to the rest of us. Still, we know he thinks (a la Alan Buckley) that fans don't know what they're talking about, so he shouldn't be surprised by anything that happens, when we're all basically a bunch of idiotic muppets! ;D
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2014/12/01/albion-boss-alan-irvine-fans-should-lay-off-west-brom/I feel a bit sorry for him because he should never have been given the job in the first place and is obviously out of his depth, but even so, some of this is insulting.
“I can’t tell them they have to be patient.
“I’d like them to bear with us but I can’t demand that. It’s up to them how they want to react and behave when they come to the games.
“We’re working as hard as we can to get results. I’m not a negative coach, I’m a purist, I want us to attack, but I have to be realistic.
“It hurts. I’d be telling lies if I said it didn’t sting. I made a decision that I thought might get us back into the game and it nearly worked.
“We were more dangerous in that last period of the game. It could have worked and people might have been feeling differently about it then.
“I can get just as frustrated as the fans can when these things don’t come off. The players are working hard.
“The fans are our supporters, we’re hoping they will be there to support us.
“I know that it works both ways and we’ve got to give the fans things to cheer about.
“In the difficult times we probably could do with our fans being exactly that – our supporters.
“They want exactly the same as we all want. We all want to win games.
“We have a better chance of winning games if we’re all together, the fans, the players, the whole club.â€
And Irvine again hit out at suggestions he is a cautious coach.
“We have to work as a team,†he said.
“We don’t have lots of individuals who can do something on their own.
“Our work has been about going forward, the majority of our sessions about going forward.
“We go into every game with a plan of how we’re going to attack as well as how we need to defend.â€
Alan Irvine think he is a 'purist'. I've read it all now Alan, go home, you're drunk.
The behave comment has amused me as well. Strange thing to come out and say, like the Albion fans are a bunch of kids.
http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/west-bromwich-albion/383/blog/post/2173659/west-brom-attack-stifled-by-alan-irvines-conservative-approach
Interesting it's not just us in the club noticing his clear flaws
If he is still here at the end of the season and he takes us down is he the man to bring us back up and will you renew your season ticket knowing what you have to look forward too?If he's still here in January, I won't be.
I feel a bit sorry for him because he should never have been given the job in the first place and is obviously out of his depth, but even so, some of this is insulting.
Inspiring thoughts from the head coach here:
Sky Sports (http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/9588763/irvine-admits-pressure-is-on)
You can add the fixture list to the list of those to blame! :D
He's got a point about the last three games, it's not like we've lost to Burnley, QPR and Leicester.Arsenal have been dodgy at the back of late and had a keeper making his debut. That cried out for an attacking approach and yet we instead failed to even have a shot until the 54th minute. Was this because of Arsenal's excellent play? No it wasn't, we just didn't get players forward.
The reason for that was because he was brought in specifically to introduce a new way of playing and yet wasn't backed by either the board or the other coaches in any way, shape or form. Blame him for that if you want, but I don't.
Excellent Post Mr Cynical!Not quite bang on in my view. I still think that there's less long ball than under Hodgson or Clarke...the problem Saturday and in recent home games generally was lack of movement and lack of tempo. Also lack of bodies in the box. Dorrans got one cross over 1st half and there was literally no-one in the box. Saido was stationary on the edge of the box and as usual no-one taking a risk and getting in the box from midfield.
Long ball to short attackers and playing very narrow is bang on!
Playing narrow as we do we really need quality from full back going forward, this is why Gamboa is a must start for me!
'Alan Irvine is unlikely to hand starts to his fringe players against West Ham. Supporters are looking to the likes of Silvestre Varela and Sebastian Blanco to break the club’s barren spell in front of goal. But the Head Coach said: “It’s a shame for the boys who came in late (in the summer). I said right at the beginning what a big task it was for them coming in late in pre-season. The players who we signed early came in and got to know the lads started pre-season with us and they’re the ones who are playing in the team: Wisdom, Gardner, Pocognoli, Lescott and Baird to some extent. They were all here. The ones who aren’t in the team are the ones who weren’t here. I said at the beginning how difficult it is to catch up.he should just shut up and stop talking nonsense, if these players are never going to be ready why the bloody hell sign them. the mans on a self destruct mission.
“Pre-season is there for a reason, to get you ready for the season and if you miss pre-season the games have started, the training goes down and before you know it it becomes that vicious circle: you can’t get in the team because you’re not ready to get into the team, others are playing and are getting more and more capable of playing at the levels that they need to be playing at. The others are falling behind even if they train extra. So it is extremely difficult. I feel for them, I really do because they train really hard on a day to day basis.
“It’s funny I heard Jose Mourinho talking about the players who can’t get in his team at the moment. He is playing the same team on Saturday, European game, Saturday. He was saying the others were training hard and doing the best they can and they will be called upon and when they are called upon they have to be as ready as they possibly can be. We are in the same position with these boys.â€
Irvine is keeping any changes close to his chest tomorrow: “I’m giving Sam (Allardyce) no clues whatsoever! I haven’t even told the players what the team is yet. To be honest I haven’t finalised the team yet. Normally they’d go away the day before a game knowing what the team is. But we’ve had limited time to do all the work that we need to do and I’m certainly not telling Sam what we might do! We have a squad to pick from and we will pick from that squad.â€'
Source: Birmingham Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-v-west-ham-8208403)
I must admit I'm totally failing to understand Irvine's Earth logic. In all seriousness, I'm getting angrier and angrier with each ridiculous quote I read from him. Messrs Swain and Lepkowski really ought to be telling him to shut up for a while. I really don't know where to begin with these latest pearls of wisdom, other than to say that I absolutely despair, and so must the players who can't get into the side (or even the squad) as a result of this crazy reasoning.
'Alan Irvine is unlikely to hand starts to his fringe players against West Ham. Supporters are looking to the likes of Silvestre Varela and Sebastian Blanco to break the club’s barren spell in front of goal. But the Head Coach said: “It’s a shame for the boys who came in late (in the summer). I said right at the beginning what a big task it was for them coming in late in pre-season. The players who we signed early came in and got to know the lads started pre-season with us and they’re the ones who are playing in the team: Wisdom, Gardner, Pocognoli, Lescott and Baird to some extent. They were all here. The ones who aren’t in the team are the ones who weren’t here. I said at the beginning how difficult it is to catch up.This is mental.
“Pre-season is there for a reason, to get you ready for the season and if you miss pre-season the games have started, the training goes down and before you know it it becomes that vicious circle: you can’t get in the team because you’re not ready to get into the team, others are playing and are getting more and more capable of playing at the levels that they need to be playing at. The others are falling behind even if they train extra. So it is extremely difficult. I feel for them, I really do because they train really hard on a day to day basis.
“It’s funny I heard Jose Mourinho talking about the players who can’t get in his team at the moment. He is playing the same team on Saturday, European game, Saturday. He was saying the others were training hard and doing the best they can and they will be called upon and when they are called upon they have to be as ready as they possibly can be. We are in the same position with these boys.â€
Irvine is keeping any changes close to his chest tomorrow: “I’m giving Sam (Allardyce) no clues whatsoever! I haven’t even told the players what the team is yet. To be honest I haven’t finalised the team yet. Normally they’d go away the day before a game knowing what the team is. But we’ve had limited time to do all the work that we need to do and I’m certainly not telling Sam what we might do! We have a squad to pick from and we will pick from that squad.â€'
Source: Birmingham Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-v-west-ham-8208403)
I must admit I'm totally failing to understand Irvine's Earth logic. In all seriousness, I'm getting angrier and angrier with each ridiculous quote I read from him. Messrs Swain and Lepkowski really ought to be telling him to shut up for a while. I really don't know where to begin with these latest pearls of wisdom, other than to say that I absolutely despair, and so must the players who can't get into the side (or even the squad) as a result of this crazy reasoning.
I don't.
On thousands of pounds a week and will get a big pay off. He didn't have to accpet the job either.
He's right to an extent that players who have no pre season never really catch up. The players themselves will admit that. Unfortunately it happens every year with us. Lessons are never learned. The issue here is that the team are playing poorly that change has to happen regardless of whether the others are at 100% or not.didn't brunt and Morrison both miss a chunk of pre season though, yet both play but the new signing aint ready because they missed pre season. stinks of double standards
What's he supposed to say 'no thanks, stick your job and salary, I'm bloody awful.'
'Alan Irvine is unlikely to hand starts to his fringe players against West Ham. Supporters are looking to the likes of Silvestre Varela and Sebastian Blanco to break the club’s barren spell in front of goal. But the Head Coach said: “It’s a shame for the boys who came in late (in the summer). I said right at the beginning what a big task it was for them coming in late in pre-season. The players who we signed early came in and got to know the lads started pre-season with us and they’re the ones who are playing in the team: Wisdom, Gardner, Pocognoli, Lescott and Baird to some extent. They were all here. The ones who aren’t in the team are the ones who weren’t here. I said at the beginning how difficult it is to catch up.
“Pre-season is there for a reason, to get you ready for the season and if you miss pre-season the games have started, the training goes down and before you know it it becomes that vicious circle: you can’t get in the team because you’re not ready to get into the team, others are playing and are getting more and more capable of playing at the levels that they need to be playing at. The others are falling behind even if they train extra. So it is extremely difficult. I feel for them, I really do because they train really hard on a day to day basis.
“It’s funny I heard Jose Mourinho talking about the players who can’t get in his team at the moment. He is playing the same team on Saturday, European game, Saturday. He was saying the others were training hard and doing the best they can and they will be called upon and when they are called upon they have to be as ready as they possibly can be. We are in the same position with these boys.â€
Irvine is keeping any changes close to his chest tomorrow: “I’m giving Sam (Allardyce) no clues whatsoever! I haven’t even told the players what the team is yet. To be honest I haven’t finalised the team yet. Normally they’d go away the day before a game knowing what the team is. But we’ve had limited time to do all the work that we need to do and I’m certainly not telling Sam what we might do! We have a squad to pick from and we will pick from that squad.â€'
Source: Birmingham Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-v-west-ham-8208403)
I must admit I'm totally failing to understand Irvine's Earth logic. In all seriousness, I'm getting angrier and angrier with each ridiculous quote I read from him. Messrs Swain and Lepkowski really ought to be telling him to shut up for a while. I really don't know where to begin with these latest pearls of wisdom, other than to say that I absolutely despair, and so must the players who can't get into the side (or even the squad) as a result of this crazy reasoning.
'Alan Irvine is unlikely to hand starts to his fringe players against West Ham. Supporters are looking to the likes of Silvestre Varela and Sebastian Blanco to break the club’s barren spell in front of goal. But the Head Coach said: “It’s a shame for the boys who came in late (in the summer). I said right at the beginning what a big task it was for them coming in late in pre-season. The players who we signed early came in and got to know the lads started pre-season with us and they’re the ones who are playing in the team: Wisdom, Gardner, Pocognoli, Lescott and Baird to some extent. They were all here. The ones who aren’t in the team are the ones who weren’t here. I said at the beginning how difficult it is to catch up.Moron , simple as. Talk about asking to be sacked , comparing himself and us to Jose and Chelsea ??? :o :o :o :o
“Pre-season is there for a reason, to get you ready for the season and if you miss pre-season the games have started, the training goes down and before you know it it becomes that vicious circle: you can’t get in the team because you’re not ready to get into the team, others are playing and are getting more and more capable of playing at the levels that they need to be playing at. The others are falling behind even if they train extra. So it is extremely difficult. I feel for them, I really do because they train really hard on a day to day basis.
“It’s funny I heard Jose Mourinho talking about the players who can’t get in his team at the moment. He is playing the same team on Saturday, European game, Saturday. He was saying the others were training hard and doing the best they can and they will be called upon and when they are called upon they have to be as ready as they possibly can be. We are in the same position with these boys.â€
Irvine is keeping any changes close to his chest tomorrow: “I’m giving Sam (Allardyce) no clues whatsoever! I haven’t even told the players what the team is yet. To be honest I haven’t finalised the team yet. Normally they’d go away the day before a game knowing what the team is. But we’ve had limited time to do all the work that we need to do and I’m certainly not telling Sam what we might do! We have a squad to pick from and we will pick from that squad.â€'
Source: Birmingham Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-v-west-ham-8208403)
I must admit I'm totally failing to understand Irvine's Earth logic. In all seriousness, I'm getting angrier and angrier with each ridiculous quote I read from him. Messrs Swain and Lepkowski really ought to be telling him to shut up for a while. I really don't know where to begin with these latest pearls of wisdom, other than to say that I absolutely despair, and so must the players who can't get into the side (or even the squad) as a result of this crazy reasoning.
He's right to an extent that players who have no pre season never really catch up. The players themselves will admit that. Unfortunately it happens every year with us. Lessons are never learned. The issue here is that the team are playing poorly that change has to happen regardless of whether the others are at 100% or not.I'm so far from convinced by this argument- Morrison, Brunt and Lescott each barely had a pre season and are guaranteed by Irvine to start every game.
'He didn't have to accept the job either.' Unbelievable. He might be pooh but having a go at him for accepting the job is ridiculous. What's he supposed to say 'no thanks, stick your job and salary, I'm bloody awful.'
'Alan Irvine is unlikely to hand starts to his fringe players against West Ham. Supporters are looking to the likes of Silvestre Varela and Sebastian Blanco to break the club’s barren spell in front of goal. But the Head Coach said: “It’s a shame for the boys who came in late (in the summer). I said right at the beginning what a big task it was for them coming in late in pre-season. The players who we signed early came in and got to know the lads started pre-season with us and they’re the ones who are playing in the team: Wisdom, Gardner, Pocognoli, Lescott and Baird to some extent. They were all here. The ones who aren’t in the team are the ones who weren’t here. I said at the beginning how difficult it is to catch up.
“Pre-season is there for a reason, to get you ready for the season and if you miss pre-season the games have started, the training goes down and before you know it it becomes that vicious circle: you can’t get in the team because you’re not ready to get into the team, others are playing and are getting more and more capable of playing at the levels that they need to be playing at. The others are falling behind even if they train extra. So it is extremely difficult. I feel for them, I really do because they train really hard on a day to day basis.
“It’s funny I heard Jose Mourinho talking about the players who can’t get in his team at the moment. He is playing the same team on Saturday, European game, Saturday. He was saying the others were training hard and doing the best they can and they will be called upon and when they are called upon they have to be as ready as they possibly can be. We are in the same position with these boys.â€
Irvine is keeping any changes close to his chest tomorrow: “I’m giving Sam (Allardyce) no clues whatsoever! I haven’t even told the players what the team is yet. To be honest I haven’t finalised the team yet. Normally they’d go away the day before a game knowing what the team is. But we’ve had limited time to do all the work that we need to do and I’m certainly not telling Sam what we might do! We have a squad to pick from and we will pick from that squad.â€'
Source: Birmingham Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-v-west-ham-8208403)
I must admit I'm totally failing to understand Irvine's Earth logic. In all seriousness, I'm getting angrier and angrier with each ridiculous quote I read from him. Messrs Swain and Lepkowski really ought to be telling him to shut up for a while. I really don't know where to begin with these latest pearls of wisdom, other than to say that I absolutely despair, and so must the players who can't get into the side (or even the squad) as a result of this crazy reasoning.
Wasnt Lescott injured for most of pre-season?
That is a very good point you make.just another nail in his coffin with another contradictory statement, keep firing them Irvine the exit door awaits.
If Irvine doesn't rate the players either he should come out and say so or say nothing at all because whatever he does will just trip himself up.
I think for Irvine, it's all going to boil down to his refusal to play Ideye, Varela, Blanco and Gamboa. After today's reports that Irvine is already looking to get rid of these players, I think it's inevitable that Peace is going to step in and sack him. There's just no way he'll be prepared to give up on these investments without giving them a chance first, which is what Irvine is pushing for. I suspect it's now just a case of waiting for the right time to sack him, and I hope a loss to West Ham tomorrow will be sufficient.
'Alan Irvine is unlikely to hand starts to his fringe players against West Ham. Supporters are looking to the likes of Silvestre Varela and Sebastian Blanco to break the club’s barren spell in front of goal. But the Head Coach said: “It’s a shame for the boys who came in late (in the summer). I said right at the beginning what a big task it was for them coming in late in pre-season. The players who we signed early came in and got to know the lads started pre-season with us and they’re the ones who are playing in the team: Wisdom, Gardner, Pocognoli, Lescott and Baird to some extent. They were all here. The ones who aren’t in the team are the ones who weren’t here. I said at the beginning how difficult it is to catch up.
“Pre-season is there for a reason, to get you ready for the season and if you miss pre-season the games have started, the training goes down and before you know it it becomes that vicious circle: you can’t get in the team because you’re not ready to get into the team, others are playing and are getting more and more capable of playing at the levels that they need to be playing at. The others are falling behind even if they train extra. So it is extremely difficult. I feel for them, I really do because they train really hard on a day to day basis.
“It’s funny I heard Jose Mourinho talking about the players who can’t get in his team at the moment. He is playing the same team on Saturday, European game, Saturday. He was saying the others were training hard and doing the best they can and they will be called upon and when they are called upon they have to be as ready as they possibly can be. We are in the same position with these boys.â€
Irvine is keeping any changes close to his chest tomorrow: “I’m giving Sam (Allardyce) no clues whatsoever! I haven’t even told the players what the team is yet. To be honest I haven’t finalised the team yet. Normally they’d go away the day before a game knowing what the team is. But we’ve had limited time to do all the work that we need to do and I’m certainly not telling Sam what we might do! We have a squad to pick from and we will pick from that squad.â€'
Source: Birmingham Mail[/url
(http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-v-west-ham-8208403)
What does he think he is hiding from Big Sam? Big Sam has to guess one thing - is Sess or Anicebe starting? Otherwise it's the same formulation and tactics we've been playing all season from our meticulously prepared head coach and his rabble of merry men we call our coaching team.
According to Steve Madeley's Twitter, there's a truly horrifying Irvine comment about the club's structure coming up in tomorrow's Express & Star. Can't see that helping his cause...wonder why the pr department are letting so many stupid statements from Irvine becoming public.
wonder why the pr department are letting so many stupid statements from Irvine becoming public.Maybe setting it up to make his sacking more understandable? Rather like when they tried to stop Mel from speaking the English he'd learned so it could be used as part of the reason to sack him
According to Steve Madeley's Twitter, there's a truly horrifying Irvine comment about the club's structure coming up in tomorrow's Express & Star. Can't see that helping his cause...Lets hope Madeley is exaggerating not really what's needed atm another public rift.
Lets hope Madeley is exaggerating not really what's needed atm another public rift.It could accelerate Irvine's departure though, which is needed
8/1 to be next manager sacked12s at coral.
If I was a fan of any other club, I would find this side-splittingly funny. As I'm not, I find it embarrassing and an insult to our fans' intelligence. What kind of a coach operates on such double standards (given the number of the current team who missed at least some of pre season) and expects to be taken seriously. In any case, he is the head coach, so it's his job to get them fit and up to scratch. If he can't do it, as he suggests, he is clearly admitting that he isn't up to the job. And comparing us to Chelsea and himself to Mourinho is just cringeworthy.
12s at coral.6s at betvictor
According to Steve Madeley's Twitter, there's a truly horrifying Irvine comment about the club's structure coming up in tomorrow's Express & Star. Can't see that helping his cause...
He'll be right too. The club's structure is the worst in the league. It might have worked under Ashworth who was actually good at his job but otherwise its a disaster, everything about it is wrong.I'd agree that some of the structure needs looking at- I think head coaches/managers should be able to bring a couple of backroom staff in with them for support, and that Kiely and Downing should lose their "unsackable" status.
The funniest thing about the clubs structure is it was bought in supposedly to make the club more stable, yet the overturn we've had in players, head coaches and back room staff since Ashworth left makes us the most unstable club in the league.
It's pretty clear Irvine didn't want many of these players, whatever you think of him, no manager is going to be successful if you buy players you think they should want rather than ones they actually want. We saw this problem under Clarke too. Sure we might make one or two concessions but its woeful business and football sense.
The club needs to get back to basics and get rid of this pretentious head coach nonsense. Maybe managers shouldn't have all the power, but we've gone too far the other way and give them no tools to work with. It's the reason we end up taking 6 weeks to get managers nobody particularly wanted anyway.
Every manager we've had has moaned about this system apart from Hodgson who funnily enough was the one we gave the most concessions too, allowed him to sign HIS players, and basically let him do his job.
He'll be right too. The club's structure is the worst in the league. It might have worked under Ashworth who was actually good at his job but otherwise its a disaster, everything about it is wrong.Great post.
The funniest thing about the clubs structure is it was bought in supposedly to make the club more stable, yet the turnover we've had in players, head coaches and back room staff since Ashworth left makes us the most unstable club in the league.
It's pretty clear Irvine didn't want many of these players, whatever you think of him, no manager is going to be successful if you buy players you think they should want rather than ones they actually want. We saw this problem under Clarke too. Sure we might make one or two concessions but its woeful business and football sense.
The club needs to get back to basics and get rid of this pretentious head coach nonsense. Maybe managers shouldn't have all the power, but we've gone too far the other way and give them no tools to work with. It's the reason we end up taking 6 weeks to get managers nobody particularly wanted anyway. Purely because its a real struggle to find anyone who would take this job given the constraints.
Every manager we've had has moaned about this system apart from Hodgson who funnily enough was the one we gave the most concessions too, allowed him to sign HIS players, and basically let him do his job. Even if Irvine did end up leaving due to his problems with the structure, the short sighted would celebrate, but there'd obviously be deeper issues at hand that are going to ruin this team sooner rather than later, regardless of who's manager.
So personally, although the above aspects need changing, I wouldn't agree that a fundamental change in the structure is needed. With the right personnel it could work. However, it will never work as long as Kiely and Downing are unsackable, and as long as we keep appointing cheap "coaches" rather than proper managers.
I think Irvine is being smart. He's had good players in from the pre-season, who have easily enough time to get fit and ready, and I believe they are. He's basically saying "They weren't here from the start, so there's a slim chance they'll make the team". Stop and think about that, it's absolutely barmy and is frightening.
I do not believe he is best to judge their quality. We have seen how good Gamboa can be at the world cup. Yet he has only started 1 game this season due to Wisdom being ineligible. How do we know the others are bad? I'm sorry, I refuse to take Irvine's word on it. Blanco, Ideye and especially Varela all have good reputations abroad, Varela has played for a big club in the champions league - and with our current starters I believe should be near the first 11.
In short, Irvine's justifying his favourite picks by saying someone else bought the other players in, and in turn it makes himself look much better.
According to Steve Madeley's Twitter, there's a truly horrifying Irvine comment about the club's structure coming up in tomorrow's Express & Star. Can't see that helping his cause...
According to Steve Madeley's Twitter, there's a truly horrifying Irvine comment about the club's structure coming up in tomorrow's Express & Star. Can't see that helping his cause...
Its the clubs structure that got him this job! No one else would have touched him with a bargpole. The stats make grim reading Alan, 7 shots on target in our last 4 games and no goals scored in our last 3 games.
Simply not good enough!
This is Varela's cv on Wikipedia, doesn't look good at all, I can't see where he played CL football.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvestre_Varela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvestre_Varela)
As much as im happy to see the back of Irvine, I do worry at the thought of Downing and Kiely being put in charge for the remainder of the season.
Would we see a change in tactics/formations/team selections with these two in charge?
I think he's been stitched up by the press, eloquence has never been one of his strong points.
I can just imagine a situation where he was asked why he's not playing Varelo, Blanco, Davidson, Baird & Ideye, & he's saying "they're not good enough, in an ideal situation I'd like to ship them out in January, but that's not likely to happen"
In truth, he's probably right, if you look at Varelo's CV online, it's not impressive, & Jason Davidson is never a Premiership player in a million years, Chris Baird has probably had his day. The only two, I personally like are Blanco & Ideye.
On the other hand, he's been naive to have said that to a press that senses tensions rising, & ultimately I think it will cost him his job
;D :o
I've seen it all now, the guy played and scored at the world cup, has won the uefa cup, and played numerous times in the champions league. But it's ok because we have Dorrans on the wing
Show me where he's played numerous times in the champions league or perhaps this is not true about him just because it's wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvestre_Varela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvestre_Varela)
Show me where he's played numerous times in the champions league or perhaps this is not true about him just because it's wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvestre_Varela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvestre_Varela)
Show me where he's played numerous times in the champions league or perhaps this is not true about him just because it's wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvestre_Varela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvestre_Varela)
Win or draw tonight and we are delaying the inevitable. West Ham win by two or three clear goals should see him gone.I never want us to lose though... It's a must win game, if we win tonight and lose saturday then perhaps we are back to square one but at the same time, the points matter most.
west ham get an early goal the fans will be on his back even more , lets see if this great coach who has all the players on side can ye right ! can get a result . think villa game be the one lose that be getting sacked in the morning will be ringing out loud from all sides of the ground .0
0
What ever the score is the time for BOOING & ANY OUT CHANTS are after the full time whistle.
Remember we are 1st & foremost BAGGIES SUPPORTERS, ALBION TILL WE DIE.
If he does go who do you honestly seeing wanting to come and work with Dngle Keith and Kiely???
Tony Pullis wouldnt touch us with a barge pole. He walked out on Palace because of transfer issues.
We will end up with Dave Jones or some Foriegn no hoper (See Pepe Mel)
As for some supporters hoping we lose tonight, how can you call yourself supporters???
I am ashamed of some of our supporters.
As for wanting us to lose, I feel the same way as you Aidan. No way do I want us to lose. Look at it this way, even if a new guy comes in , we still need points at the end of the season. Even a draw is a point on the board.
You have to look at the bigger picture and longer term. If Irvine picks up points then it is delaying the inevitable making the job harder for the person who comes in during the new year. Look at Blues, they are flying under Rowett despite not having any new players to the dross Clark was sending out.
You have to look at the bigger picture and longer term. If Irvine picks up points then it is delaying the inevitable making the job harder for the person who comes in during the new year. Look at Blues, they are flying under Rowett despite not having any new players to the dross Clark was sending out.I don't want us to lose , never have never will but IF we do i hope it's enough to get rid of Irvine if it's the same old squad and same old negative tactics .We are only going one way under this bloke at the minute.
Did you see how quickly Irvine got down the tunnel on Saturday?
The link I posted above shows his stats. If you click 'history', the champions league is displayed as ICL , and shows appearances, with subs in brackets and also goals.
I make it 24 appearances and two goals
If he does go who do you honestly seeing wanting to come and work with Dngle Keith and Kiely???
Tony Pullis wouldnt touch us with a barge pole. He walked out on Palace because of transfer issues.
We will end up with Dave Jones or some Foriegn no hoper (See Pepe Mel)
As for some supporters hoping we lose tonight, how can you call yourself supporters???
I am ashamed of some of our supporters.
according to Irvine we have players who play week in week out who are more attack minded than defensive. latest deluded quote. it doesn't matter if you played with 11 messis if your tactics restrain them from going forward you plonker.
I tell you what's a poo cv. Irvine's.and that's exactly why it's ridiculous that he holds authority over players like Varela, Gamboa, Blanco and Ideye's future at our club.
Pepe Mel was not a no hoper, given half the tools Ted as got we would be nowhere near the bottom.
Pepe Mel probably brought the most exciting attacking football of our premiership time, yes ok lacked in defensive issues but with the right support that would not have been the case
I think we are all fustraited in different ways because we can all see the problem yet the blokes who make the decisions aparently can't.I think you're right about Irvine but I'm not so sure he understands the depth of feeling about Downing and Kiely.
JP isn't stupid, he knows how the fans feel and how far he can push them.
He got pretty close with the change of kit and I think he knows that too.
He would have see the response on Saturday and would know himself from what he has witnessed.
He will also see that he sanctioned a ten million pound investment which is yet to really be used and is reducing in value by every second he doesn't play.
I don't doubt JP will do what is needed, my concern is will he do it before it's too late?
I think we are all fustraited in different ways because we can all see the problem yet the blokes who make the decisions aparently can't.Well I hope he is at least starting to compile a list of possible replacements for AI because I don't want a repeat of last year waiting weeks for a replacement.
JP isn't stupid, he knows how the fans feel and how far he can push them.
He got pretty close with the change of kit and I think he knows that too.
He would have see the response on Saturday and would know himself from what he has witnessed.
He will also see that he sanctioned a ten million pound investment which is yet to really be used and is reducing in value by every second he doesn't play.
I don't doubt JP will do what is needed, my concern is will he do it before it's too late?
Pepe Mel was not a no hoper, given half the tools Ted as got we would be nowhere near the bottom.
Pepe Mel probably brought the most exciting attacking football of our premiership time, yes ok lacked in defensive issues but with the right support that would not have been the case
If you thought that was the best attacking football thank Downing. He was head coach in all but name after the palace game last season. Mel basically did nothing, it's an open secret by this point.I find it ironic that we looked at our best during Pepe's tenure when we were playing the way that he wanted us to. Unfortunately, the players were unable/unwilling to do that for 90 minutes.
I find it ironic that we looked at our best during Pepe's tenure when we were playing the way that he wanted us to. Unfortunately, the players were unable/unwilling to do that for 90 minutes.
Here we go again:So a 'foreign lad' cannot play because he missed pre-season 5 months ago, but aging old pros like Brunt, Dorrans and Morrison should have no problem playing every 3 or 4 days?
'Alan Irvine says he has no qualms about asking his West Bromwich Albion players to play two Premier League games in 72 hours.
Five years ago Wolves boss Mick McCarthy infamously made ten outfield changes for a Tuesday night match at Manchester United after Wolves had won at Spurs. “I won’t be making that number of changes!†said Irvine ahead of tonight’s West Ham test. “I might have to make some changes but I won’t be making that number of changes.
“I find it strange in the Premier League we have to change the squad because we have got a game on a Tuesday following a Saturday. All the other leagues do it every week... it’s the same players who go out Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday. For some reason we have got a feeling that the Premier League players can’t do it. But then whenever we play against lower opposition it’s: ‘Premier League player will be fitter’! Why they should be fitter I don’t quite know because these boys are used to going again and again and again which they have to do.
“The crazy thing is that the Morrisons, Brunts and Dorrans and Olssons.. people like that.. McAuleys.. they’ve been used to playing Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday for huge chunks of their career. Why would they not be able to do that again whilst they are in the Premier League? There will probably be a couple of changes but not because I feel they can’t go again. I’d like to think they are ready to go again.
"We’ve been lucky in that we’ve had good records in terms of players being fit. We’ve only had two suspensions so far so we’ve been able to be fairly settled. They are players who are able to go again. They’re not players who are still trying to find their way in the Premier League and maybe struggling with the intensity. Some of the foreign boys can find that difficult. A lot of the boys have been used to doing it for some time.â€
The Albion boss is critical of the current system which sees precious little football able to be handed to fringe players.
“I’m comfortable with the squad that we’ve got. I do wish there were some other avenues to give some of the boys who need games games. But there aren’t. The under 21 league is miles away from a Premier League game and you can only play three of them. We try and have behind closed doors games but that’s difficult at this time of year because the games are coming thick and fast and you’re thinking about how to balance that. You want to have a closed doors game for enough senior players not just one or two.â€
Irvine says he is keen to strike a balance in his starting eleven.
“We have a lot of players play for us week-in and week-out, who are more attack minded than defensive. That is something that obviously we keep on trying to work on."'
Source: Birmingham Mail (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-bucking-premier-league-8210307)
It's only a couple of days since Irvine said that everyone in the squad will be needed in the coming weeks and now he's saying he sees no reason why the same players can't play week-in, week-out! He also seems to now be saying that the new players who are out of favour aren't being picked because their foreign and/or aren't experienced in the Premier League. He seems to be forgetting that we can't afford (or at least are unwilling) to buy experienced, good quality Premier League players, so he just needs to get on with it and ensure they start to get that experience.
We shipped 7 goals to relegation rivals Villa and Palace who couldn't score to save their lives at that time. We'd have gone down comfortably under Mel playing that way. Drawing to Everton and Chelsea was no good when we lost those games.I was talking more about the forwards and midfielders pressing rather than the defenders pushing up. I'm not sure the defence did push up that much, but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.
It's baffling how he could have thought a high line with Reid, Olsson, Lugano and Ridgewell as our defenders could have ever possibly worked.
I find it ironic that we looked at our best during Pepe's tenure when we were playing the way that he wanted us to. Unfortunately, the players were unable/unwilling to do that for 90 minutes.Bang on.
Bang on.
Can anyone else remember an Albion manager being interviewed as much as this guy?
Is it just attention seeking because he has spent so long in the shadows so is making the most of his 15 minutes (we wish) of fame?
Or is it that the journos can't believe how easy it is to get him to spout nonsense, therefore he makes their job incredibly easy?
Either way, I must admit I am addicted now. I can't wait to hear his next soundbite, they are, after all, far more entertaining than his football.
It's so surreal, it's like it's happening to someone else. :o
I think it would have improved this year too with a group of players more suited to playing his style, and a full pre-season to adapt to his methods.
same here, some of the best attacking football i have seen in our premier history.All he needed was a bit of help and support from above
Now they play a laboured style and they still cant hack it
I think it would have improved this year too with a group of players more suited to playing his style, and a full pre-season to adapt to his methods.
I think it would have improved this year too with a group of players more suited to playing his style, and a full pre-season to adapt to his methods.
The back 4 now would be able to play the high pressing game, our current back four are alot quicker overall compared to last seasons back 4.
Then if you added Varela, Blanco, Mulumbu, Sess, Morrison, you had a midfield that should be able to adapt to high pressing also.
Our problem was, Brunt, Olsson, McAuley etc didnt have the stamina or pace to last the high pressing demands.
Brunt again? He covers more ground than any of our other players. Don't let the facts get in the way.
Covering more ground means nothing as I guess you full well know. Just means they run around a lot.
I couldn't care less if we had a player sitting in the middle and spraying the ball around hardly moving all game as long it was useful passes.
Mel couldn’t implement his ideas because the senior pros had a hissy fit about a new philosophy and new methods and cried off to Downing and Kiely. We then got a coach who we believed would be more in tune with the way the side has been set up for the 3-4 years.
Senior pros had too much influence last season as did Dingle Keith and Kiely. Paying for it now.
I've just seen a quote from Stephen Hawking on the BBC News website:
" AI could end the human race "
Presumably AI is practising by finishing off the Baggies first!
No, you are getting two things confused. Hawking's AI refers to artificial intelligence, whereas our AI refers to absence of intelligence.
Covering more ground means nothing as I guess you full well know. Just means they run around a lot.
I couldn't care less if we had a player sitting in the middle and spraying the ball around hardly moving all game as long it was useful passes.
Well when the post in question was suggesting Brunt lacked the stamina to play a pressing game then in this context it means everything.
So much bile based on conjecture and lack of considered argument or facts. I kind of expect someone to blame Irvine for it being cold tonight. It was never cold under Pepe Mel.
So much bile based on conjecture and lack of considered argument or facts. I kind of expect someone to blame Irvine for it being cold tonight. It was never cold under Pepe Mel.
Well when the post in question was suggesting Brunt lacked the stamina to play a pressing game then in this context it means everything.
The post also mentioned pace in the same context as stamina. Yes, Brunt may have the stamina, but he is no sprinter exactly.
and that's exactly why it's ridiculous that he holds authority over players like Varela, Gamboa, Blanco and Ideye's future at our club.Varela was frozen out of Porto, not given a squad number and not training with the first team.
Kind of like a more embarrassing version of Mowbray (sound bites wise)
Varela was frozen out of Porto, not given a squad number and not training with the first team.Varela, a winger, has scored 5 goals in 26 appearances for Portugal (according to Wikipedia), a nation ranked 7th in the world, and has scored 30 goals in 115 appearances for Porto, many of which were in the Champions League.
Blanco was capped in 2010 against Haiti and Panama and has not featured for Argentina since.
Ideye can not get into a Nigeria side that failed to reach the Africa Nations Cup
Gamboa is playing in the first team, albeit not first choice.
Perhaps they are not the players we hoped they would be?
Varela, a winger, has scored 5 goals in 26 appearances for Portugal (according to Wikipedia), a nation ranked 7th in the world, and has scored 30 goals in 115 appearances for Porto, many of which were in the Champions League.
Ideye scored 33 in 74 appearances for Dynamo Kiev, again some of which were in the Champions League, and has scored 5 in 24 appearances for Nigeria. Our scouts managed to persuade Peace to part with £10m to sign him, substantially beating our previous record club transfer. It's widely acknowledged that the Nigerian head coach, Stephen Keshi, operates a very backwards selection process. His omission shouldn't be seen as a judgement of his ability.
Gamboa has 30 caps for Costa Rica and is a regular for his country, and shone at the 2014 World Cup, playing all 5 games, where they were beaten by Holland in the quarter final. He has played frequently for Rosenborg in the Europa League. We only managed to beat off competition from Everton due to previous work put in by the recruitment staff to secure his signature.
Blanco signed for his previous club in a transfer worth €6m. He was only ever a realistic transfer target for us due to the situation in Ukraine (same as Ideye), otherwise he's a player that would have been out of our reach. He's scored once in two caps for Argentina, and 14 in his 97 games for Metalist. Again, it was reported at the time that we had to beat off competition from a number of top European clubs for is signature because he is that highly rated.
These players are easily an improvement on the likes of Wisdom, Baird, Morrison, Gardner, Brunt, Dorrans and Anichebe who are guaranteed game time under Irvine. The reason they don't play is because Irvine wants to keep the clique happy, and they won't be as effective defensively as the (largely) British contingent.
Or do you trust Irvine's judgement over these players' pedigree?
Perhaps you should stop cherry picking your evidence.
We've seen plenty of foreign players with a good pedigree come to the Premier League and become flops.Oh, you're right, better not let them play just in case then.
Varela, a winger, has scored 5 goals in 26 appearances for Portugal (according to Wikipedia), a nation ranked 7th in the world, and has scored 30 goals in 115 appearances for Porto, many of which were in the Champions League.Well structured and fair argument mate. Two sides to every story.
Ideye scored 33 in 74 appearances for Dynamo Kiev, again some of which were in the Champions League, and has scored 5 in 24 appearances for Nigeria. Our scouts managed to persuade Peace to part with £10m to sign him, substantially beating our previous record club transfer. It's widely acknowledged that the Nigerian head coach, Stephen Keshi, operates a very backwards selection process. His omission shouldn't be seen as a judgement of his ability.
Gamboa has 30 caps for Costa Rica and is a regular for his country, and shone at the 2014 World Cup, playing all 5 games, where they were beaten by Holland in the quarter final. He has played frequently for Rosenborg in the Europa League. We only managed to beat off competition from Everton due to previous work put in by the recruitment staff to secure his signature.
Blanco signed for his previous club in a transfer worth €6m. He was only ever a realistic transfer target for us due to the situation in Ukraine (same as Ideye), otherwise he's a player that would have been out of our reach. He's scored once in two caps for Argentina, and 14 in his 97 games for Metalist. Again, it was reported at the time that we had to beat off competition from a number of top European clubs for is signature because he is that highly rated.
These players are easily an improvement on the likes of Wisdom, Baird, Morrison, Gardner, Brunt, Dorrans and Anichebe who are guaranteed game time under Irvine. The reason they don't play is because Irvine wants to keep the clique happy, and they won't be as effective defensively as the (largely) British contingent.
Or do you trust Irvine's judgement over these players' pedigree?
Perhaps you should stop cherry picking your evidence.
Hey, JP, take a bite of some humble pie and ring up Pepe Mel. Tell him he can have his own backroom because our current one is useless. Let him have flamenco dancers, sangria on tap and a bullfight in the bullring.
He could sort this lot out.
Do it now. Please.
Hey, JP, take a bite of some humble pie and ring up Pepe Mel. Tell him he can have his own backroom because our current one is useless. Let him have flamenco dancers, sangria on tap and a bullfight in the bullring.Yes please.
He could sort this lot out.
Do it now. Please.
Hey, JP, take a bite of some humble pie and ring up Pepe Mel. Tell him he can have his own backroom because our current one is useless. Let him have flamenco dancers, sangria on tap and a bullfight in the bullring.
He could sort this lot out.
Do it now. Please.
Varela was frozen out of Porto, not given a squad number and not training with the first team.
Blanco was capped in 2010 against Haiti and Panama and has not featured for Argentina since.
Ideye can not get into a Nigeria side that failed to reach the Africa Nations Cup
Gamboa is playing in the first team, albeit not first choice.
Perhaps they are not the players we hoped they would be?
That's your lot for me , Varela offered more in 30 mins than our entire team in the last 4 games yet has been ignored for weeks . Ending up with 5 forwards and Foster attacking.....clueless.. Desperation football clueless , not a Pullis fan but get on the phone to him tomorrow need stability and some Premiership know how
I'm really excited about the squad we now have at our disposal, and I think we have a potentially really exciting team. We could be in for a real treat at the Hawthorns once we get in a positive manager to integrate the new signings into a system. Something like this would be a joy:
Foster
Gamboa Dawson Lescott Pocognoli
Mulumbu Yacob
Varela Sessegnon Blanco
Ideye
Now all we need to do is get rid of the three individuals stifling the talent in the squad, and preventing us from seeing some really exciting football; Irvine, Downing and Kiely.
Viva Pepe Mel
I think he hasn't had the best set of circumstances and I don't think he is clueless as some people would make out but I do think we need to pull the trigger. As a club we aren't going to change our recruitment structure, it would mean spending more money. It's therefore imperative whoever is at the helm embraces that and utilises the players brought in. I think he has had some genuine reasons for not playing some of the players but it's December now and players like Varela and Wisdom aren't playing when we have no other genuine winger or right back.
Whether we'll sack him and bring in a manager for January is unlikely though. They'll want to do business in the January transfer window and JP will never sanction it. It will be another farce like the previous two appointments - probably February sometime.
"It would mean spending more money". We spent the best part of 12 mil on two players in Vic and Sess - the former couldn't hit a cows backside with a shovel, and the latter....as much as I rate him, lately he couldn't make a killer pass if the ball was filled with 10 pounds of semtex! We spend 9/10 mil on a striker that makes reminds me more of a kebabs and stumbling out of a former Birmingham club venue than his exploits on the pitch - and you think we can't make shot of Irvine and a couple of leaches because of cash flow?!
Has he gone yet?.watching Sky sports news just got this feeling he will be gone tonight
This is the lowest I have ever felt as an Albion Fan.It was! I was weirdly enjoying it. Most entertaining game under Irvine so far. Foster playing on the right-wing, great fun!
Tonight was like watching a pantomime!
Well lets see them play so we can actually assess if they can step-up. My nan's not good enough for the first team but you can only take my word for it!ill take the gamble, what position does she play ??
ill take the gamble, what position does she play ??
Just wondered if the poster who asked if anyone was ready to eat humble pie is ready to eat it himself.
So would it be fair to say that quite a lot of us would like to see the back of him?91% according to the poll, and the few that were undecided may well have voted for him to go now too
Just wondered if the poster who asked if anyone was ready to eat humble pie is ready to eat it himself.
Can you imagine if we go down and peace keeps him on having to endure this in the championship
91% according to the poll, and the few that were undecided may well have voted for him to go now too
We had enough chances to win the game tonight. It's a results business though and that's now four losses in a row so form needs to improve starting at Hull. I know I'm in the minority but I'm happy to stick with Irvine for the time being.You're stubborn
Bring back Pepe Mel, give him a 2.5 year contract as MANAGER and assure him that if we go down then he remains in the role with the chance to rebuild us and bring stability to the club.I'd love that
He can bring in his entourage - sack Downing and Kiely as well. They have to go.
Keep Burton on for the time being, but the Manager must a Manager not a mere Head Coach.
Pepe should never have been sacked and he would keep us up with this squad but he is needed now, not in late January - would be far too late.
Time for a rebuild.
I reckon the people who voted "stay" or "undecided" only did so to make a phallus shaped pattern, possibly a clever nod towards what they really think of Irvine 8)Haha, either that or by mistake.
If we're struggling to find a replacement I'm willing to put the third year of my degree on hold and sort out the team?
Bring back Pepe Mel, give him a 2.5 year contract as MANAGER and assure him that if we go down then he remains in the role with the chance to rebuild us and bring stability to the club.
He can bring in his entourage - sack Downing and Kiely as well. They have to go.
Keep Burton on for the time being, but the Manager must a Manager not a mere Head Coach.
Pepe should never have been sacked and he would keep us up with this squad but he is needed now, not in late January - would be far too late.
Time for a rebuild.
The Mel ship has obviously sailed. But minimum 2 sackings ideally 4 need to happen tonight.4. Irvine, Downing, Kiely, Burton.
We had enough chances to win the game tonight. It's a results business though and that's now four losses in a row so form needs to improve starting at Hull. I know I'm in the minority but I'm happy to stick with Irvine for the time being.
i hope irvine wins the next euro millions draw so he can sod off and retire
You're stubborn
4. Irvine, Downing, Kiely, Burton.don't you mean Kelly, or do you want him to have the job . Just a thought hasn't Kelly worked with Pullis at Stoke ?
I call it blind faith.Yep, can't afford to give Downing and Kiely free rein for six weeks while we interview the likes of Dave Jones for the sake of "due dilligence". We should only be speaking to managers potentially worth appointing.
We have had a long line of negative boooooooring managers now. Time for someone to bring out the football in our squad.
Time for JP to sort this mess out. It is obvious that whoever is in charge of the "due diligence" part hasn't got a clue, so we need a clear out there as well.
We had enough chances to win the game tonight. It's a results business though and that's now four losses in a row so form needs to improve starting at Hull. I know I'm in the minority but I'm happy to stick with Irvine for the time being.
don't you mean Kelly, or do you want him to have the job . Just a thought hasn't Kelly worked with Pullis at Stoke ?You're right. 5: Irvine, Kelly, Downing, Kiely, Burton.
Bring back Pepe Mel, give him a 2.5 year contract as MANAGER and assure him that if we go down then he remains in the role with the chance to rebuild us and bring stability to the club.
He can bring in his entourage - sack Downing and Kiely as well. They have to go.
Keep Burton on for the time being, but the Manager must a Manager not a mere Head Coach.
Pepe should never have been sacked and he would keep us up with this squad but he is needed now, not in late January - would be far too late.
Time for a rebuild.
I feel sorry for him - it was a shame that the supporters spent so long of the second half deriding him rather than supporting the team.
He has made the biggest mistake of his life tonight in bowing down to the fans. It has made him look weak. His position amongst the supporters (as they demonstrated tonight) has now become untenable. He will not win them back.
He's a hard working bloke, he's a nice bloke, but he's not good enough and Jeremy Peace needs to act now. If he remains the discontent will grow and the poisonous atmosphere will linger. Time to save the season by admitting we made a mistake and moving him on.
Bring back Pepe Mel, give him a 2.5 year contract as MANAGER and assure him that if we go down then he remains in the role with the chance to rebuild us and bring stability to the club.
He can bring in his entourage - sack Downing and Kiely as well. They have to go.
Keep Burton on for the time being, but the Manager must a Manager not a mere Head Coach.
Pepe should never have been sacked and he would keep us up with this squad but he is needed now, not in late January - would be far too late.
Time for a rebuild.
He has made the biggest mistake of his life tonight in bowing down to the fans. It has made him look weak. His position amongst the supporters (as they demonstrated tonight) has now become untenable. He will not win them back.
I feel sorry for him - it was a shame that the supporters spent so long of the second half deriding him rather than supporting the team.
He has made the biggest mistake of his life tonight in bowing down to the fans. It has made him look weak. His position amongst the supporters (as they demonstrated tonight) has now become untenable. He will not win them back.
He's a hard working bloke, he's a nice bloke, but he's not good enough and Jeremy Peace needs to act now. If he remains the discontent will grow and the poisonous atmosphere will linger. Time to save the season by admitting we made a mistake and moving him on.
I feel sorry for him - it was a shame that the supporters spent so long of the second half deriding him rather than supporting the team.
He has made the biggest mistake of his life tonight in bowing down to the fans. It has made him look weak. His position amongst the supporters (as they demonstrated tonight) has now become untenable. He will not win them back.
He's a hard working bloke, he's a nice bloke, but he's not good enough and Jeremy Peace needs to act now. If he remains the discontent will grow and the poisonous atmosphere will linger. Time to save the season by admitting we made a mistake and moving him on.
Just back from the match. Same old same old. But at least we gave it a go I guess. I don’t know what the way forward is because any answers I can think of Peace won’t do. E.g. Pulis wont be asked won’t come (because of setup, backroom staff director of football etc. Replace Pulis with another managers of any repute – “wont be asked wont come (because of setup, backroom staff director of football etc.â€
So there is no answer without Peace having a personality transplant. I haven’t felt this despondent since erm Irvine was first announced as our new manager.
I think Bomber Brown on the radio said it all while I was on the way to the game. Tom Ross asked him “is it the players, Irvine or the formation†he said “it was having not bought better players over the last 3 years when to replace the one’s we sold or had to give back Lukaku, Long and Odemwingie
Please someone give me some hope of a way forward.
I feel sorry for him - it was a shame that the supporters spent so long of the second half deriding him rather than supporting the team.
He has made the biggest mistake of his life tonight in bowing down to the fans. It has made him look weak. His position amongst the supporters (as they demonstrated tonight) has now become untenable. He will not win them back.
He's a hard working bloke, he's a nice bloke, but he's not good enough and Jeremy Peace needs to act now. If he remains the discontent will grow and the poisonous atmosphere will linger. Time to save the season by admitting we made a mistake and moving him on.
What was the attendance and what was the atmosphere in the ground like towards Irvine , I couldn't hear anything bad on radio
I don't see Pulis as the answer. He'd just be another head ache after a little while. We need someone positive, not another negative nellie.
The Irvine thread is closing in on 200 pages. I wouldn't mind betting that the majority of them are from Albion fans criticising him. The problem is that we are all preaching to the converted.
The second half turned into one big bashing Irvine session.
Chanting for Varela and Brown to which he duly obliged - cheering every touch of the ball they received which I didnt have a problem with.
Some of the chants included "Alan Irvine's a football geinius", "Alan Irvine get out of our club" and "we've got Father Ted".
Some fans asked him for a wave and then after he waved, they followed by booing him.
So the subs were just down to fan pressure?! Was you there? I'd like to know what the atmosphere was like as it was hard to tell via stream.
The second half turned into one big bashing Irvine session.
Chanting for Varela and Brown to which he duly obliged - cheering every touch of the ball they received which I didnt have a problem with.
Some of the chants included "Alan Irvine's a football geinius", "Alan Irvine get out of our club" and "we've got Father Ted".
Some fans asked him for a wave and then after he waved, they followed by booing him.
As much as I want him gone, publicly taking the urine out of him isn't on.Then maybe he shouldn't insult our fans by constantly talking rubbish and saying certain players aren't anywhere near good enough, only to be proven wrong by their performances, i.e. Varela tonight.
As much as I want him gone, publicly taking the urine out of him isn't on.
As much as I want him gone, publicly taking the urine out of him isn't on.
Sorry, I cannot feel sorry for him one bit. He may be a nice bloke but he is not in the business to be liked , he is in to get results, he is not doing it and the last few days have been spent blaming everyone from the players and the recruitment staff to the club structure to deflect it from him. Varela has made him look an even bigger fool tonight with his performance after his claims about him not being fit.
He seems a nice man, disgusting behavior from a large amount of our fans that he doesn't deserve. Want him out by all means but acting like playground bullies reflects very poorly on the fan base. It's embarrassing.The reason the atmosphere is like it is at home is because of the football Irvine has been dishing up. He's been given chances week after week to pick teams that would play the kind of football which would get fans onside. He's consistently thrown those chances back in the fans faces with the same old midfield five. I don't agree with the taunting he received, but other than that, he got the atmosphere he deserved.
Perhaps nearly as embarrassing as the amount of people who seem to think there's any chance of getting Mel back. Even ignoring he has I think the worst win percentage of any manager we've ever had, its just not happening for various reasons.
Irvine might not be good enough but frankly anyone would struggle with the atmosphere the ground creates. Partly why we're much better away than at home, it just puts everyone on edge.
Not condoning him being abused and to be honest apart from boos I heard nothing in the Brummie but you think this is bad ask Bobby Gould how bad it could be :D
Not condoning him being abused and to be honest apart from boos I heard nothing in the Brummie but you think this is bad ask Bobby Gould how bad it could be :D
The reason the atmosphere is like it is at home is because of the football Irvine has been dishing up. He's been given chances week after week to pick teams that would play the kind of football which would get fans onside. He's consistently thrown those chances back in the fans faces with the same old midfield five. I don't agree with the taunting he received, but other than that, he got the atmosphere he deserved.Totally agree.......
He seems a nice man, disgusting behavior from a large amount of our fans that he doesn't deserve. Want him out by all means but acting like playground bullies reflects very poorly on the fan base. It's embarrassing. Irvine might not be good enough but frankly anyone would struggle with the atmosphere the ground creates. Partly why we're much better away than at home, it just puts everyone on edge.I'm hoping Peace will finally be willing to let go of Downing and Kiely, and let the new man bring in his own people. If that's the case, we should be able to attract someone suitable to manage a club in arguably the best league in the world.
Perhaps nearly as embarrassing as the amount of people who seem to think there's any chance of getting Mel back. Even ignoring he has I think the worst win percentage of any manager we've ever had, its just not happening for various reasons. It's funny, Mel was very poor, but a nice man. As is Irvine. One is revered, the other hated. Mel apparently loved because his football - which was actually Keith Downing. The same fans who would hate Downing as manager love his style because they think a Spaniard was behind it. It's quite funny really.
Considering Dave Jones nearly got the job in January, Irvine got the job in June, and both these took over a month, I'm really not sure why anyone, anywhere expects we'd get even a passably decent manager. The very, very, very best we could do is maybe Chris Hughton. And even he I doubt would take it.
He seems a nice man, disgusting behavior from a large amount of our fans that he doesn't deserve. Want him out by all means but acting like playground bullies reflects very poorly on the fan base. It's embarrassing.
Perhaps nearly as embarrassing as the amount of people who seem to think there's any chance of getting Mel back. Even ignoring he has I think the worst win percentage of any manager we've ever had, its just not happening for various reasons.
Irvine might not be good enough but frankly anyone would struggle with the atmosphere the ground creates. Partly why we're much better away than at home, it just puts everyone on edge.
Worth remembering that in the same fixture at the end of last season, we beat West Ham 1-0 under Pepe Mel.
My previous post didn't include the posts of "can we pick the team for you", "we pick our own team" and "can we pick the team next week".
After Irvine made the changes, bowing more or less to the fans, sections of the Smethwick chanted "Alan Irvine - he's under the thumb".
"Your just Downing's number two" was another.
I feel sorry for him - it was a shame that the supporters spent so long of the second half deriding him rather than supporting the team.
He has made the biggest mistake of his life tonight in bowing down to the fans. It has made him look weak. His position amongst the supporters (as they demonstrated tonight) has now become untenable. He will not win them back.
He's a hard working bloke, he's a nice bloke, but he's not good enough and Jeremy Peace needs to act now. If he remains the discontent will grow and the poisonous atmosphere will linger. Time to save the season by admitting we made a mistake and moving him on.
This is what I mean, after the Palace loss, Keith Downing was our head coach in all but name. All this praise for Mel is praise for Keith Downing. It's bizarre. We didn't even do well in that time. West Ham were much worse then anyway, but regardless we were abysmal for almost every game in those months.If you're saying Downing was in charge during that time, and saying that period was so terrible, then I presume you're in favour of him being sacked?
Just to be clear, the football under Irvine is very poor. It's just this idea that Mel was somehow any better because of his reputation (which isn't even very good bar 2 seasons with Betis).
If the club have any sense they'll get another rubbish Spanish manager and even if they relegate us with 15 points that'll keep most our fans happy. Maybe change Keith Downing's name to Keith Gonzales seeing as people seem to love his football so much.
Then maybe he shouldn't insult our fans by constantly talking rubbish and saying certain players aren't anywhere near good enough, only to be proven wrong by their performances, i.e. Varela tonight.
Nothing of this heard from the Brummie ?
If we lose to Vile then the gloves will be off for him !
If you're saying Downing was in charge during that time, and saying that period was so terrible, then I presume you're in favour of him being sacked?
Pepe mel has been a dam site more successful than Ted in his career
He was doomed from the start, he will never be accepted. Do the decent thing somebody
The last time we scored a goal from open play was seven games ago.
I guess it obviously wasn't that loud but it was loud enough.
The longer Irvine stays the worse they will become.
Well no as i've repeatedly said the club has problems far deeper than the manager. There's no point sacking Irvine only to have Downing as caretaker for the next 7 weeks before we get Dave Jones in as manager.I meant in favour of Downing being sacked
Our last 3 appointments have taken progressively longer and all over a month. It's pretty clear pretty much no one with credibility applies for the Albion job - Irvine didn't either, we approached him.
The absolute best we could dream of is Chris Hughton who plays pretty the same as Irvine. And even then I imagine he'd probably reject the constraints we'd make him be under.
At one point he went through 7 clubs in 5 years. He's really, really not that good. Maybe we should get Alex McLeish who's also managed the odd good season in his career.
I meant in favour of Downing being sacked
In fact, that was Anichebe's headed goal against Palace which was from a corner, so I think it's eight. I'll go back and correct it.
Absolutely shocking. Clarke got sacked on the back of four losses. Pull that trigger Jeremy
How can he keep playing Wisdom at right back over Gamboa? We were desperate for some width on the right, Mulumbu was doing his nut in with Wisdom playing square all the time.
So many obvious team selections that are required:
1) Valera needs a run wide left
2) Gamboa should be the first choice right back
3) Dawson needs to be dropped for McAuley
4) Mulumbu should play in the middle alongside Morrison / Gardner or Yacob
5) Anichebe is a sub, as is Dorrans and Brunt
6) Samaras should get a go upfront with Berahino
7) Lescott should be named captain
To look on the bright side we've had Gamboa, Valera and Brown all get on the pitch in the past 4 days. We need to see a lot more of them now.
The last time we scored a goal from open play was eight games ago.Nice spin ;) Usually we get asked when was the last time we scored from a set piece and criticise thecoaches. ;)
He had quite an easy ride as fans, despite total disbelief when he was appointed, for his first three months or so as we assessed where we mighty go under him. An alarming November has seen the worst fears emerge and, as he has not earnt any previous plus points with the support, a rapid disintegration of his position as predictably taken place...........If by an alarming November you mean defeats to two sides consistently in the top 16 in Europe, the form team in the Premier league and a victory against our relegation rivals, if he does get sacked I pity the next bloke coming in as the bar of expectation is set pretty high.
If by an alarming November you mean defeats to two sides consistently in the top 16 in Europe, the form team in the Premier league and a victory against our relegation rivals, if he does get sacked I pity the next bloke coming in as the bar of expectation is set pretty high.
Irvine out tee shirts £2.00 if anybody wants one
If by an alarming November you mean defeats to two sides consistently in the top 16 in Europe, the form team in the Premier league and a victory against our relegation rivals, if he does get sacked I pity the next bloke coming in as the bar of expectation is set pretty high.
If by an alarming November you mean defeats to two sides consistently in the top 16 in Europe, the form team in the Premier league and a victory against our relegation rivals, if he does get sacked I pity the next bloke coming in as the bar of expectation is set pretty high.
Dick Advocaat is available now, give him a 2 year deal and bring his staff in, will be expensive but worth it. Would love to see the players try and moan to him!
Nice spin ;) Usually we get asked when was the last time we scored from a set piece and criticise thecoaches. ;)Spin?! I think you'll find it's an indisputable fact mate, and a frightening one at that. I'm pointing out our weaknesses under Irvine. One of them is whenever the ball is in play...
If by an alarming November you mean defeats to two sides consistently in the top 16 in Europe, the form team in the Premier league and a victory against our relegation rivals, if he does get sacked I pity the next bloke coming in as the bar of expectation is set pretty high.
i cannot believe hes still in a job.I cannot see us winning another game with him in charge. nobody will stomach this in the championship if we go down so get rid now
Interesting to see Steve Madeley's support of Irvine seems to have dropped an awful lot on Twitter .
Cant honestly see him being sacked anytime soon, JP still likes him as does TB. If results are the same at the end of December then it could be a different story.
If he does get the boot Downing will get the job, so i wouldnt get too excited.
He is in the short term , his record over Xmas last year was decent . Personally I'd be pulling him to one side and asking him whether he would include the newer players , if it's a yes then i'd give him a few weeks.
Too late then. Downing is a better option
that may be because he doesn't have to tow the party line anymore and risk being cut off by the club.Until last night he has been 110% behind Irvine , overly really with nothing to back it up.
the new media team are his friends so his own views are starting to come through
He is in the short term , his record over Xmas last year was decent . Personally I'd be pulling him to one side and asking him whether he would include the newer players , if it's a yes then i'd give him a few weeks.
am completely bemused by the number of people who think Downing is anything other than part of the problem. Would be bemused by one person - more than one leaves me speechless!
The whole point of our setup of keeping the same coaches when a head coach changes is for consistency when things are going well. With that theory then they have to also be part responsible when things are going wrong, especially when it has lasted for 3 head coaches.
Whens the vote of confidence coming then
Anyone Know if JP is even in the country. I thought at this time of year he is usually in the Caribbean!
Lose the next two that means we've lost 6 on the bounce and leaves us with 13 points from 16 games. As soon as the points is less than the games played its time to start worrying.It already is...
It already is...
I know Varela has been injured, but he's been available for the last few games... apparently couldn't pick him because of language difficulties? What's Portuguese for "Your playing on the left wing, lad, do your stuff?"
I would give him until after the villa game. I will always judge a manager on their results and four losses on the bounce is definitely danger territory!
However win the next two and I would have taken top half of the table at the beginning of the season, before the Christmas games . Such are the narrow margins of success and failure in this league.
I think we all know he's going nowhere until Monday at the earliest so lets look at it a different way.
If and it's a big if I know, but humour me. If he plays Varela, Gamboa (Wisdom cannot possibly play after last night) and Ideye on Saturday and we get a high tempo, attacking performance and a good win ( and I mean a good win, not like Leicester ), even he would be hard pushed to go back to the narrow, slow dross that we are used to.
Therefore, it may be that by bowing to fan pressure he has, albeit inadvertently, stumbled across a winning formula.
This would mean that the very fans that want him out (and I am one of them) will have saved his job. :o
What have we gone and done................... :'(
If that is true, then he deserves the sack. It was clear to see that Varela is a class above any of our other attacking players on the ball and going forward, as well as his crossing ability. If he doesn't start the next game then Irvine deserves to go.He already deserves to go for his constant omission of players better than those who are playing.
I feel sorry for him - it was a shame that the supporters spent so long of the second half deriding him rather than supporting the team.
He has made the biggest mistake of his life tonight in bowing down to the fans. It has made him look weak. His position amongst the supporters (as they demonstrated tonight) has now become untenable. He will not win them back.
He's a hard working bloke, he's a nice bloke, but he's not good enough and Jeremy Peace needs to act now. If he remains the discontent will grow and the poisonous atmosphere will linger. Time to save the season by admitting we made a mistake and moving him on.
If that is true, then he deserves the sack. It was clear to see that Varela is a class above any of our other attacking players on the ball and going forward, as well as his crossing ability. If he doesn't start the next game then Irvine deserves to go.
I honestly think there is a replacement on standby. Peace came out in the summer and said he had learnt from mistakes. The PR side is improving, but if we are to succeed (stay up) then he will have to pull the trigger after the villa.
I honestly think anything less that 4 points will see him gone.
I think we all know he's going nowhere until Monday at the earliest so lets look at it a different way.That's the thing, even if he eventually somehow gets it right through fan pressure, it's blindingly obvious he'll never be up to the job
If and it's a big if I know, but humour me. If he plays Varela, Gamboa (Wisdom cannot possibly play after last night) and Ideye on Saturday and we get a high tempo, attacking performance and a good win ( and I mean a good win, not like Leicester ), even he would be hard pushed to go back to the narrow, slow dross that we are used to.
Therefore, it may be that by bowing to fan pressure he has, albeit inadvertently, stumbled across a winning formula.
This would mean that the very fans that want him out (and I am one of them) will have saved his job. :o
What have we gone and done................... :'(
That's the thing, even if he eventually somehow gets it right through fan pressure, it's blindingly obvious he'll never be up to the job
When you look at them on the sidelines, they honestly look deflated. They look like sunday league managers and coaches praying for a bit of luck. The guy has no charisma and it makes me wonder how the players get worked up for a game.
Hes here for the Vile game unffortuanately but i expect 4 points from the next 2 games
What was the name of the bloke at Blackburn who carried on and on even though he was way out of his depth ?
Reminds me very much of that , so thick skinned he won't do the decent thing and resign.
What was the name of the bloke at Blackburn who carried on and on even though he was way out of his depth ?
Reminds me very much of that , so thick skinned he won't do the decent thing and resign.
Steve Kean?
Slightly different as he was pally with the owner wasn't he?
Ended up relegating them though.
Thats him Steve Kean, not sure where i got round from
Just wondered if the poster who asked if anyone was ready to eat humble pie is ready to eat it himself.
What was the name of the bloke at Blackburn who carried on and on even though he was way out of his depth ?
Reminds me very much of that , so thick skinned he won't do the decent thing and resign.
He's not likely to resign is he? 5months in to a 12 month contract, if he gets the sack, he gets the remaining 7 months.In a non football way I'd agree but he is very unlikely to turn this around and it's going to get nasty at games , last nights stick was the tip of the iceberg....we all know whats coming. Trouble is he seems that stubborn and thick skinned he will be convinced he is doing a good job. Paying off and drawing a line under it today would be best for all.
The most likely way he would resign if for the club to pay him off. In fact politically, that might be the best way, then AI had folded under "fan power", not the club.
A starting point for me would be to bring Dan Ashworth back and offer him double his FA salary and a shareholding to make him Deputy Chairman.
Then JP and all the fans leave it to DA to do what's necessary.
Everyone's a winner.
Have to say i speak against the majority here but i think some of our supporters have been an absolute disgrace in their treatment of Irvine.
Anybody who dares to point some counter things out against the criticism Irvine receives (some of it just, some of it not) is deemed to be an Irvine lover or happy clapper, i think its actually called some reality.
None of us wanted the bloke, none of us felt he would do a good job and we may well be proved right but at this time we are 5th from bottom (not bottom 3) despite an awful run of results, yes we could go in the bottom 3 saturday if we lose but we could also go halfway in the league.
From the threats of protests about his appointment to the embarrassing p**staking chants last night, its pathetic. By all means take the mick out of opposition teams and fans, but to do it to your own its ridiculous.
Its complete double standards, there seems to be some crazy Pepe Mel love in, and i personally have no idea why, he was a likeable bloke who maybe got the raw end of the stick, people were saying Irvine was weak last night as he gave into the fans for subs, surely that makes Pepe Mel weak then when the players supposedly refused to play his style, why didnt he drop them and put others in? Yet he gets sympathy for his treatment!
I have been bored watching some Albion games this season, name the last few (last night wasnt boring) but also in previous seasons i have been bored at times watching a Pepe Mel team, a Steve Clarke team, a Roy Hodgson team, a Di Matteo team, whether we like it or not thats part of where we are at as a club, its not a new thing under Irvine, yes he made mistakes and would continue to do so, he should of gone for it more against Arsenal and Newcastle, but i remember under Pepe Mel to name the Man United games and Stoke games (and there were others) at home least season where we barely had a shot, same happened in games under Clarke and same with Hodgson, etc, etc yet none of them had this witch hunt that Irvine has.
The three games prior to last night were s**t and Irvine made mistakes in his selection and his approach however last night was different, we started well, had a bad half hour that cost us and then dominated second half, Dawsons sitter he missed, Anichebe had the keeper make 2 great saves, Dorrans miss at the end plus others, last night we had a go, yes we lost, but apparently according to some of our fans upto the West Ham game, its not the losing, its the way we lost, so surely they should be happier now? Last night whether it was fans pressure or not we had a lot of creativity and a lot of attacking players on that pitch and went for it, its what we have all wanted yet when he does it he is still apparently clueless and dont know what he is doing! The three games prior to last night Irvine deserved the stick as we were dull, boring and went about it wrong, last night was different and he seemed to acknowledge the previous approach wasnt working, whats so wrong with that?
People are very quick to point out Irvines faults, but what about also giving credit where its due? For every Newcastle or Arsenal performance, there is a Tottenham or Burnley, for every borefest game (ie - Everton and Chelsea) there is a entertaining game - Sunderland and Man United, there is also creditable results against Southampton and Leicester.
Irvine took over half a squad in the summer and has had to integrate a lot of new players in, we all knew that out 11 new signings some wouldnt and wont work out, thats the law of averages, Pepe Mel gets a lot of credit for bringing Dorrans back into the fold (and rightly so) yet Irvine has turned Berahinos career around after he seemed to be going nowhere, he has brought Dawson in from the cold when no other manager did and he is now a key player, i think Lescott (arguably our best player) said the main reason he was signing was because of Irvine so how about some credit for the bloke when its due if people are going to slate him for everything.
Varela looked quality and lets hope he starts Saturday, but also he has been injured, he last played in the world cup, didnt do a proper preseason at Porto, started to train with us, played a game then got injured again, there was talk his season was over, he eventually started training again, played the under 21's and Irvine said he would be available start of December and sure enough he was. Its not like he has been fully fit raring to go, he has been injured and not played a proper game for 6 x months so i would imagine he does need easing back in, maybe Irvine did make a mistake and could of put him on the bench the last couple of games, but we all make mistakes, i certainly do.
If we lost the next two then Irvine due to modern day football job would definitely be in jeopardy, it obviously is now, the sad thing is we could win the next two be half way in the league, with a possible FA Cup run to look forward too and yet some would still want him out because he is Alan Irvine, it is in a way like spoilt brats, play up until get what you want.
Its a sad day for me regarding our treatment of him, we always mock the Villa and Wolves but to me we are just as bad, if not worse, at least the Villa waited a couple of seasons before turning on Lambert, some of our fans waited a couple of minutes, others waited a massive 10 x games, what a great chance has been given.
I said it previous, when Irvine gets sacked (and i have no doubt he will) then judging by how our fans react now, i would assume that unless we are above midtable and all out entertainers within a few games then the new manager will be having the p**s taken out of him and chants for him to go? Because thats exactly what we have done with Irvine.
I think Irvine will be gone before too long, he has made mistakes and some of his latest comments are unusual, its okay saying the fans need to bond with him, he never had a chance with some and i think he looks a bloke under pressure and i think JP will pull the trigger.
I apologise for the long post but i get so annoyed with the double standards that i thought would let if off my chest.
Have to say i speak against the majority here but i think some of our supporters have been an absolute disgrace in their treatment of Irvine.
Anybody who dares to point some counter things out against the criticism Irvine receives (some of it just, some of it not) is deemed to be an Irvine lover, i think its actually called some reality.
None of us wanted the bloke, none of us felt he would do a good job and we may well be proved right but at this time we are 5th from bottom (not bottom 3) despite an awful run of results, yes we could go in the bottom 3 saturday if we lose but we could also go halfway in the league.
From the threats of protests about his appointment to the embarrassing p**staking chants last night, its pathetic. By all means take the mick out of opposition teams and fans, but to do it to your own its ridiculous.
Its complete double standards, there seems to be some crazy Pepe Mel love in, and i personally have no idea why, he was a likeable bloke who maybe got the raw end of the stick, people were saying Irvine was weak last night as he gave into the fans for subs, surely that makes Pepe Mel weak then when the players supposedly refused to play his style, why didnt he drop them and put others in? Yet he gets sympathy for his treatment!
I have been bored watching some Albion games this season, name the last few (last night wasnt boring) but also in previous seasons i have been bored at times watching a Pepe Mel team, a Steve Clarke team, a Roy Hodgson team, a Di Matteo team, whether we like it or not thats part of where we are at as a club, its not a new thing under Irvine, yes he made mistakes and would continue to do so, he should of gone for it more against Arsenal and Newcastle, but i remember under Pepe Mel to name the Man United games and Stoke games (and there were others) at home least season where we barely had a shot, same happened in games under Clarke and same with Hodgson, etc, etc yet none of them had this witch hunt that Irvine has.
The three games prior to last night were s**t and Irvine made mistakes in his selection and his approach however last night was different, we started well, had a bad half hour that cost us and then dominated second half, Dawsons sitter he missed, Anichebe had the keeper make 2 great saves, Dorrans miss at the end plus others, last night we had a go, yes we lost, but apparently according to some of our fans upto the West Ham game, its not the losing, its the way we lost, so surely they should be happier now? Last night whether it was fans pressure or not we had a lot of creativity and a lot of attacking players on that pitch and went for it, its what we have all wanted yet when he does it he is still apparently clueless and dont know what he is doing! The three games prior to last night Irvine deserved the stick as we were dull, boring and went about it wrong, last night was different and he seemed to acknowledge the previous approach wasnt working, whats so wrong with that?
People are very quick to point out Irvines faults, but what about also giving credit where its due? For every Newcastle or Chelsea performance, there is a Tottenham or Burnley, for every borefest game (ie - Everton and Chelsea) there is a entertaining game - Sunderland and Man United, there is also creditable results against Southampton and Leicester.
Irvine took over half a squad in the summer and has had to integrate a lot of new players in, we all knew that out 11 new signings some wouldnt and wont work out, thats the law of averages, Pepe Mel gets a lot of credit for bringing Dorrans back into the fold (and rightly so) yet Irvine has turned Berahinos career around after he seemed to be going nowhere, he has brought Dawson in from the cold when no other manager did and he is now a key player, i think Lescott (arguably our best player) said the main reason he was signing was because of Irvine so how about some credit for the bloke when its due if people are going to slate him for everything.
Varela looked quality and lets hope he starts Saturday, but also he has been injured, he last played in the world cup, didnt do a proper preseason at Porto, started to train with us, played a game then got injured again, there was talk his season was over, he eventually started training again, played the under 21's and Irvine said he would be available start of December and sure enough he was. Its not like he has been fully fit raring to go, he has been injured and not played a proper game for 6 x months so i would imagine he does need easing back in, maybe Irvine did make a mistake and could of put him on the bench the last couple of games, but we all make mistakes, i certainly do.
If we lost the next two then Irvine due to modern day football job would definitely be in jeopardy, it obviously is now, the sad thing is we could win the next two be half way in the league, with a possible FA Cup run to look forward too and yet some would still want him out because he is Alan Irvine, it is in a way like spoilt brats, play up until get what you want.
Its a sad day for me regarding our treatment of him, we always mock the Villa and Wolves but to me we are just as bad, if not worse, at least the Villa waited a couple of seasons before turning on Lambert, some of our fans waited a couple of minutes, others waited a massive 10 x games, what a great chance has been given.
I said it previous, when Irvine gets sacked (and i have no doubt he will) then judging by how our fans react now, i would assume that unless we are above midtable and all out entertainers within a few games then the new manager will be having the p**s taken out of him and chants for him to go? Because thats exactly what we have done with Irvine.
I think Irvine will be gone before too long, he has made mistakes and some of his latest comments are unusual, its okay saying the fans need to bond with him, he never had a chance with some and i think he looks a bloke under pressure and i think JP will pull the trigger.
I apologise for the long post but i get so annoyed with the double standards that i thought would let if off my chest.
Have to say i speak against the majority here but i think some of our supporters have been an absolute disgrace in their treatment of Irvine.
Anybody who dares to point some counter things out against the criticism Irvine receives (some of it just, some of it not) is deemed to be an Irvine lover or happy clapper, i think its actually called some reality.
None of us wanted the bloke, none of us felt he would do a good job and we may well be proved right but at this time we are 5th from bottom (not bottom 3) despite an awful run of results, yes we could go in the bottom 3 saturday if we lose but we could also go halfway in the league.
From the threats of protests about his appointment to the embarrassing p**staking chants last night, its pathetic. By all means take the mick out of opposition teams and fans, but to do it to your own its ridiculous.
Its complete double standards, there seems to be some crazy Pepe Mel love in, and i personally have no idea why, he was a likeable bloke who maybe got the raw end of the stick, people were saying Irvine was weak last night as he gave into the fans for subs, surely that makes Pepe Mel weak then when the players supposedly refused to play his style, why didnt he drop them and put others in? Yet he gets sympathy for his treatment!
I have been bored watching some Albion games this season, name the last few (last night wasnt boring) but also in previous seasons i have been bored at times watching a Pepe Mel team, a Steve Clarke team, a Roy Hodgson team, a Di Matteo team, whether we like it or not thats part of where we are at as a club, its not a new thing under Irvine, yes he made mistakes and would continue to do so, he should of gone for it more against Arsenal and Newcastle, but i remember under Pepe Mel to name the Man United games and Stoke games (and there were others) at home least season where we barely had a shot, same happened in games under Clarke and same with Hodgson, etc, etc yet none of them had this witch hunt that Irvine has.
The three games prior to last night were s**t and Irvine made mistakes in his selection and his approach however last night was different, we started well, had a bad half hour that cost us and then dominated second half, Dawsons sitter he missed, Anichebe had the keeper make 2 great saves, Dorrans miss at the end plus others, last night we had a go, yes we lost, but apparently according to some of our fans upto the West Ham game, its not the losing, its the way we lost, so surely they should be happier now? Last night whether it was fans pressure or not we had a lot of creativity and a lot of attacking players on that pitch and went for it, its what we have all wanted yet when he does it he is still apparently clueless and dont know what he is doing! The three games prior to last night Irvine deserved the stick as we were dull, boring and went about it wrong, last night was different and he seemed to acknowledge the previous approach wasnt working, whats so wrong with that?
People are very quick to point out Irvines faults, but what about also giving credit where its due? For every Newcastle or Arsenal performance, there is a Tottenham or Burnley, for every borefest game (ie - Everton and Chelsea) there is a entertaining game - Sunderland and Man United, there is also creditable results against Southampton and Leicester.
Irvine took over half a squad in the summer and has had to integrate a lot of new players in, we all knew that out 11 new signings some wouldnt and wont work out, thats the law of averages, Pepe Mel gets a lot of credit for bringing Dorrans back into the fold (and rightly so) yet Irvine has turned Berahinos career around after he seemed to be going nowhere, he has brought Dawson in from the cold when no other manager did and he is now a key player, i think Lescott (arguably our best player) said the main reason he was signing was because of Irvine so how about some credit for the bloke when its due if people are going to slate him for everything.
Varela looked quality and lets hope he starts Saturday, but also he has been injured, he last played in the world cup, didnt do a proper preseason at Porto, started to train with us, played a game then got injured again, there was talk his season was over, he eventually started training again, played the under 21's and Irvine said he would be available start of December and sure enough he was. Its not like he has been fully fit raring to go, he has been injured and not played a proper game for 6 x months so i would imagine he does need easing back in, maybe Irvine did make a mistake and could of put him on the bench the last couple of games, but we all make mistakes, i certainly do.
If we lost the next two then Irvine due to modern day football job would definitely be in jeopardy, it obviously is now, the sad thing is we could win the next two be half way in the league, with a possible FA Cup run to look forward too and yet some would still want him out because he is Alan Irvine, it is in a way like spoilt brats, play up until get what you want.
Its a sad day for me regarding our treatment of him, we always mock the Villa and Wolves but to me we are just as bad, if not worse, at least the Villa waited a couple of seasons before turning on Lambert, some of our fans waited a couple of minutes, others waited a massive 10 x games, what a great chance has been given.
I said it previous, when Irvine gets sacked (and i have no doubt he will) then judging by how our fans react now, i would assume that unless we are above midtable and all out entertainers within a few games then the new manager will be having the p**s taken out of him and chants for him to go? Because thats exactly what we have done with Irvine.
I think Irvine will be gone before too long, he has made mistakes and some of his latest comments are unusual, its okay saying the fans need to bond with him, he never had a chance with some and i think he looks a bloke under pressure and i think JP will pull the trigger.
I apologise for the long post but i get so annoyed with the double standards that i thought would let if off my chest.
I suspect, in this day and age, football fans are pretty much the same whatever club it is, aren't they? However, we were in a position where we had a popular head coach (as proved by polls on here and elsewhere) who was nevertheless ejected without getting the basic support from the club (e.g. input into a transfer window) that any head coach should reasonably expect to get, and was then replaced by someone who next to nobody wanted.Great post.
Feelings ran extremely high at the time, so it should be no surprise that the level of vitriol is what it is now and the person who's most blameworthy for that is Jeremy Peace, for making an appointment that anyone with half a brain would have known would be unpopular and, therefore, there wouldn't be the same level of patience as for someone who at least a reasonable proportion of the fans were happy to see appointed. The bed was made and now the Club has to sleep in it.
Have to say i speak against the majority here but i think some of our supporters have been an absolute disgrace in their treatment of Irvine.
Anybody who dares to point some counter things out against the criticism Irvine receives (some of it just, some of it not) is deemed to be an Irvine lover or happy clapper, i think its actually called some reality.
None of us wanted the bloke, none of us felt he would do a good job and we may well be proved right but at this time we are 5th from bottom (not bottom 3) despite an awful run of results, yes we could go in the bottom 3 saturday if we lose but we could also go halfway in the league.
From the threats of protests about his appointment to the embarrassing p**staking chants last night, its pathetic. By all means take the mick out of opposition teams and fans, but to do it to your own its ridiculous.
Its complete double standards, there seems to be some crazy Pepe Mel love in, and i personally have no idea why, he was a likeable bloke who maybe got the raw end of the stick, people were saying Irvine was weak last night as he gave into the fans for subs, surely that makes Pepe Mel weak then when the players supposedly refused to play his style, why didnt he drop them and put others in? Yet he gets sympathy for his treatment!
I have been bored watching some Albion games this season, name the last few (last night wasnt boring) but also in previous seasons i have been bored at times watching a Pepe Mel team, a Steve Clarke team, a Roy Hodgson team, a Di Matteo team, whether we like it or not thats part of where we are at as a club, its not a new thing under Irvine, yes he made mistakes and would continue to do so, he should of gone for it more against Arsenal and Newcastle, but i remember under Pepe Mel to name the Man United games and Stoke games (and there were others) at home least season where we barely had a shot, same happened in games under Clarke and same with Hodgson, etc, etc yet none of them had this witch hunt that Irvine has.
The three games prior to last night were s**t and Irvine made mistakes in his selection and his approach however last night was different, we started well, had a bad half hour that cost us and then dominated second half, Dawsons sitter he missed, Anichebe had the keeper make 2 great saves, Dorrans miss at the end plus others, last night we had a go, yes we lost, but apparently according to some of our fans upto the West Ham game, its not the losing, its the way we lost, so surely they should be happier now? Last night whether it was fans pressure or not we had a lot of creativity and a lot of attacking players on that pitch and went for it, its what we have all wanted yet when he does it he is still apparently clueless and dont know what he is doing! The three games prior to last night Irvine deserved the stick as we were dull, boring and went about it wrong, last night was different and he seemed to acknowledge the previous approach wasnt working, whats so wrong with that?
People are very quick to point out Irvines faults, but what about also giving credit where its due? For every Newcastle or Arsenal performance, there is a Tottenham or Burnley, for every borefest game (ie - Everton and Chelsea) there is a entertaining game - Sunderland and Man United, there is also creditable results against Southampton and Leicester.
Irvine took over half a squad in the summer and has had to integrate a lot of new players in, we all knew that out 11 new signings some wouldnt and wont work out, thats the law of averages, Pepe Mel gets a lot of credit for bringing Dorrans back into the fold (and rightly so) yet Irvine has turned Berahinos career around after he seemed to be going nowhere, he has brought Dawson in from the cold when no other manager did and he is now a key player, i think Lescott (arguably our best player) said the main reason he was signing was because of Irvine so how about some credit for the bloke when its due if people are going to slate him for everything.
Varela looked quality and lets hope he starts Saturday, but also he has been injured, he last played in the world cup, didnt do a proper preseason at Porto, started to train with us, played a game then got injured again, there was talk his season was over, he eventually started training again, played the under 21's and Irvine said he would be available start of December and sure enough he was. Its not like he has been fully fit raring to go, he has been injured and not played a proper game for 6 x months so i would imagine he does need easing back in, maybe Irvine did make a mistake and could of put him on the bench the last couple of games, but we all make mistakes, i certainly do.
If we lost the next two then Irvine due to modern day football job would definitely be in jeopardy, it obviously is now, the sad thing is we could win the next two be half way in the league, with a possible FA Cup run to look forward too and yet some would still want him out because he is Alan Irvine, it is in a way like spoilt brats, play up until get what you want.
Its a sad day for me regarding our treatment of him, we always mock the Villa and Wolves but to me we are just as bad, if not worse, at least the Villa waited a couple of seasons before turning on Lambert, some of our fans waited a couple of minutes, others waited a massive 10 x games, what a great chance has been given.
I said it previous, when Irvine gets sacked (and i have no doubt he will) then judging by how our fans react now, i would assume that unless we are above midtable and all out entertainers within a few games then the new manager will be having the p**s taken out of him and chants for him to go? Because thats exactly what we have done with Irvine.
I think Irvine will be gone before too long, he has made mistakes and some of his latest comments are unusual, its okay saying the fans need to bond with him, he never had a chance with some and i think he looks a bloke under pressure and i think JP will pull the trigger.
I apologise for the long post but i get so annoyed with the double standards that i thought would let if off my chest.
saying we have had worse than this is like saying well I had a kick in the balls so I can except a punch in the gob ................well no its not ok to accept it .
Why oh why is he still in charge ? Hull are in rubbish form but with clueless in charge they must be looking forward to the weekend.
Have to say i speak against the majority here but i think some of our supporters have been an absolute disgrace in their treatment of Irvine.As others have said great post, nice to see I'm not alone in the thinking on some points you have raised
Anybody who dares to point some counter things out against the criticism Irvine receives (some of it just, some of it not) is deemed to be an Irvine lover or happy clapper, i think its actually called some reality.
None of us wanted the bloke, none of us felt he would do a good job and we may well be proved right but at this time we are 5th from bottom (not bottom 3) despite an awful run of results, yes we could go in the bottom 3 saturday if we lose but we could also go halfway in the league.
From the threats of protests about his appointment to the embarrassing p**staking chants last night, its pathetic. By all means take the mick out of opposition teams and fans, but to do it to your own its ridiculous.
Its complete double standards, there seems to be some crazy Pepe Mel love in, and i personally have no idea why, he was a likeable bloke who maybe got the raw end of the stick, people were saying Irvine was weak last night as he gave into the fans for subs, surely that makes Pepe Mel weak then when the players supposedly refused to play his style, why didnt he drop them and put others in? Yet he gets sympathy for his treatment!
I have been bored watching some Albion games this season, name the last few (last night wasnt boring) but also in previous seasons i have been bored at times watching a Pepe Mel team, a Steve Clarke team, a Roy Hodgson team, a Di Matteo team, whether we like it or not thats part of where we are at as a club, its not a new thing under Irvine, yes he made mistakes and would continue to do so, he should of gone for it more against Arsenal and Newcastle, but i remember under Pepe Mel to name the Man United games and Stoke games (and there were others) at home least season where we barely had a shot, same happened in games under Clarke and same with Hodgson, etc, etc yet none of them had this witch hunt that Irvine has.
The three games prior to last night were s**t and Irvine made mistakes in his selection and his approach however last night was different, we started well, had a bad half hour that cost us and then dominated second half, Dawsons sitter he missed, Anichebe had the keeper make 2 great saves, Dorrans miss at the end plus others, last night we had a go, yes we lost, but apparently according to some of our fans upto the West Ham game, its not the losing, its the way we lost, so surely they should be happier now? Last night whether it was fans pressure or not we had a lot of creativity and a lot of attacking players on that pitch and went for it, its what we have all wanted yet when he does it he is still apparently clueless and dont know what he is doing! The three games prior to last night Irvine deserved the stick as we were dull, boring and went about it wrong, last night was different and he seemed to acknowledge the previous approach wasnt working, whats so wrong with that?
People are very quick to point out Irvines faults, but what about also giving credit where its due? For every Newcastle or Arsenal performance, there is a Tottenham or Burnley, for every borefest game (ie - Everton and Chelsea) there is a entertaining game - Sunderland and Man United, there is also creditable results against Southampton and Leicester.
Irvine took over half a squad in the summer and has had to integrate a lot of new players in, we all knew that out 11 new signings some wouldnt and wont work out, thats the law of averages, Pepe Mel gets a lot of credit for bringing Dorrans back into the fold (and rightly so) yet Irvine has turned Berahinos career around after he seemed to be going nowhere, he has brought Dawson in from the cold when no other manager did and he is now a key player, i think Lescott (arguably our best player) said the main reason he was signing was because of Irvine so how about some credit for the bloke when its due if people are going to slate him for everything.
Varela looked quality and lets hope he starts Saturday, but also he has been injured, he last played in the world cup, didnt do a proper preseason at Porto, started to train with us, played a game then got injured again, there was talk his season was over, he eventually started training again, played the under 21's and Irvine said he would be available start of December and sure enough he was. Its not like he has been fully fit raring to go, he has been injured and not played a proper game for 6 x months so i would imagine he does need easing back in, maybe Irvine did make a mistake and could of put him on the bench the last couple of games, but we all make mistakes, i certainly do.
If we lost the next two then Irvine due to modern day football job would definitely be in jeopardy, it obviously is now, the sad thing is we could win the next two be half way in the league, with a possible FA Cup run to look forward too and yet some would still want him out because he is Alan Irvine, it is in a way like spoilt brats, play up until get what you want.
Its a sad day for me regarding our treatment of him, we always mock the Villa and Wolves but to me we are just as bad, if not worse, at least the Villa waited a couple of seasons before turning on Lambert, some of our fans waited a couple of minutes, others waited a massive 10 x games, what a great chance has been given.
I said it previous, when Irvine gets sacked (and i have no doubt he will) then judging by how our fans react now, i would assume that unless we are above midtable and all out entertainers within a few games then the new manager will be having the p**s taken out of him and chants for him to go? Because thats exactly what we have done with Irvine.
I think Irvine will be gone before too long, he has made mistakes and some of his latest comments are unusual, its okay saying the fans need to bond with him, he never had a chance with some and i think he looks a bloke under pressure and i think JP will pull the trigger.
I apologise for the long post but i get so annoyed with the double standards that i thought would let if off my chest.
Nigel Pearson obviously under pressure like Irvine, telling leicester fans if they dont like it dont come, called one fan an idiotI bet Irvine is calling some of our fans idiots.
I bet Irvine is calling some of our fans idiots.
This is what i mean about us coming across a bit spoilt though.we didn't get relegated with mel though , we never gave him time to implement his style or the following season. THE CLUB SACKED HIM , the clubs no better than the fans they didn't support mel whatsoever even though he kept us up.
I didnt particulary want Pepe Mel to take over, i didnt feel he was the right fit, however once he was here, he had my full support and i said on several occasions if we were going to get relegated, give him the next season to get us back up, let him implement his style, Sacking a manager every 6 x months very rarely results in success, surely thats what you have to do support your manager and give them time, not half a season?
I didnt want Steve Clarke and i have no doubt we will appoint managers in the future who i dont want either but it doesnt mean i will demand they are sacked after a few bad games or performances just because i didnt want them, i will give them a proper chance.
If we were bottom of the league, not getting a point, playing rubbish then fair enough, the calls for him to go would be justified, but the first 10 games of the season we were doing okay, the last 4 not so good, but managers shouldnt be sacked after 4 bad games!
Pepe Mel had around 17 games in charge i think, Irvine has had 14 and i have enjoyed more games under Irvine than i did Pepe Mel, i saw far more toothless performances under Mel than i have done under Irvine, its said with Mel with this squad of players he come do wonders, maybe he could do.
However maybe now Varela is fit, and Ideye is back in the frame how do we know Irvine may of learnt his lessons from the Newcastle, Chelsea and Arsenal games and do well with this squad, why not give the bloke a chance? If Pepe Mel is cited as he should be given a chance with this squad, why shouldnt Irvine be?
What is it Irvine has done so massively wrong? He has made some mistakes like every other manager in the world, but we played well in some games, played rubbish in some games, played okay in others, which is exactly what pretty much any manager coming into the Albion will do, all our previous managers did it and any future ones will because thats where we are at.
I think now Irvine is on borrowed time, i dont agree with it but i think the decision will be made by JP pretty soon.
Some big news about to come out of the Hawthorns....Irvine is STAYING. :o
Some big news about to come out of the Hawthorns....
we didn't get relegated with mel though , we never gave him time to implement his style or the following season. THE CLUB SACKED HIM , the clubs no better than the fans they didn't support mel whatsoever even though he kept us up.
Where have you seen this? Hard to see him being sacked yet.
Our whole set up revolved around Ashworth, he was irreplaceable. With him gone, the system needs to go.
Irvine is STAYING. :o
Why has the post by BB74 been deleted?
Our whole set up revolved around Ashworth, he was irreplaceable. With him gone, the system needs to go.
Have to say i speak against the majority here but i think some of our supporters have been an absolute disgrace in their treatment of Irvine.
Anybody who dares to point some counter things out against the criticism Irvine receives (some of it just, some of it not) is deemed to be an Irvine lover or happy clapper, i think its actually called some reality.
None of us wanted the bloke, none of us felt he would do a good job and we may well be proved right but at this time we are 5th from bottom (not bottom 3) despite an awful run of results, yes we could go in the bottom 3 saturday if we lose but we could also go halfway in the league.
From the threats of protests about his appointment to the embarrassing p**staking chants last night, its pathetic. By all means take the mick out of opposition teams and fans, but to do it to your own its ridiculous.
Its complete double standards, there seems to be some crazy Pepe Mel love in, and i personally have no idea why, he was a likeable bloke who maybe got the raw end of the stick, people were saying Irvine was weak last night as he gave into the fans for subs, surely that makes Pepe Mel weak then when the players supposedly refused to play his style, why didnt he drop them and put others in? Yet he gets sympathy for his treatment!
I have been bored watching some Albion games this season, name the last few (last night wasnt boring) but also in previous seasons i have been bored at times watching a Pepe Mel team, a Steve Clarke team, a Roy Hodgson team, a Di Matteo team, whether we like it or not thats part of where we are at as a club, its not a new thing under Irvine, yes he made mistakes and would continue to do so, he should of gone for it more against Arsenal and Newcastle, but i remember under Pepe Mel to name the Man United games and Stoke games (and there were others) at home least season where we barely had a shot, same happened in games under Clarke and same with Hodgson, etc, etc yet none of them had this witch hunt that Irvine has.
The three games prior to last night were s**t and Irvine made mistakes in his selection and his approach however last night was different, we started well, had a bad half hour that cost us and then dominated second half, Dawsons sitter he missed, Anichebe had the keeper make 2 great saves, Dorrans miss at the end plus others, last night we had a go, yes we lost, but apparently according to some of our fans upto the West Ham game, its not the losing, its the way we lost, so surely they should be happier now? Last night whether it was fans pressure or not we had a lot of creativity and a lot of attacking players on that pitch and went for it, its what we have all wanted yet when he does it he is still apparently clueless and dont know what he is doing! The three games prior to last night Irvine deserved the stick as we were dull, boring and went about it wrong, last night was different and he seemed to acknowledge the previous approach wasnt working, whats so wrong with that?
People are very quick to point out Irvines faults, but what about also giving credit where its due? For every Newcastle or Arsenal performance, there is a Tottenham or Burnley, for every borefest game (ie - Everton and Chelsea) there is a entertaining game - Sunderland and Man United, there is also creditable results against Southampton and Leicester.
Irvine took over half a squad in the summer and has had to integrate a lot of new players in, we all knew that out 11 new signings some wouldnt and wont work out, thats the law of averages, Pepe Mel gets a lot of credit for bringing Dorrans back into the fold (and rightly so) yet Irvine has turned Berahinos career around after he seemed to be going nowhere, he has brought Dawson in from the cold when no other manager did and he is now a key player, i think Lescott (arguably our best player) said the main reason he was signing was because of Irvine so how about some credit for the bloke when its due if people are going to slate him for everything.
Varela looked quality and lets hope he starts Saturday, but also he has been injured, he last played in the world cup, didnt do a proper preseason at Porto, started to train with us, played a game then got injured again, there was talk his season was over, he eventually started training again, played the under 21's and Irvine said he would be available start of December and sure enough he was. Its not like he has been fully fit raring to go, he has been injured and not played a proper game for 6 x months so i would imagine he does need easing back in, maybe Irvine did make a mistake and could of put him on the bench the last couple of games, but we all make mistakes, i certainly do.
If we lost the next two then Irvine due to modern day football job would definitely be in jeopardy, it obviously is now, the sad thing is we could win the next two be half way in the league, with a possible FA Cup run to look forward too and yet some would still want him out because he is Alan Irvine, it is in a way like spoilt brats, play up until get what you want.
Its a sad day for me regarding our treatment of him, we always mock the Villa and Wolves but to me we are just as bad, if not worse, at least the Villa waited a couple of seasons before turning on Lambert, some of our fans waited a couple of minutes, others waited a massive 10 x games, what a great chance has been given.
I said it previous, when Irvine gets sacked (and i have no doubt he will) then judging by how our fans react now, i would assume that unless we are above midtable and all out entertainers within a few games then the new manager will be having the p**s taken out of him and chants for him to go? Because thats exactly what we have done with Irvine.
I think Irvine will be gone before too long, he has made mistakes and some of his latest comments are unusual, its okay saying the fans need to bond with him, he never had a chance with some and i think he looks a bloke under pressure and i think JP will pull the trigger.
I apologise for the long post but i get so annoyed with the double standards that i thought would let if off my chest.
Why has the post by BB74 been deleted?
The problems obviously lie much deeper than Alan Irvine and even if he's moved on, there is such a lack of options out there that whoever we appoint the fans probably won't like.
We have to be honest with ourselves that Jeremy Peace isn't going to strange the structure of the club - nor will he remove the seemingly untouchable coaching duo of Downing and Kiely so straight away we're narrowing our search options.
Anybody willing to join this club will have to work with the same set of existing players, will have to work to the same budget requirement as Irvine, will have to work in a set up including Downing and Kiely and they will have little influence in terms of recruitment either. I mean, when you consider that, who in their right mind would want to join us?
We're effectively limiting ourselves to 'failures' like Dave Jones, Chris Hughton and unexperienced managers like Steve Round and Paul Clement. Are any of them better options that Alan Irvine?
Maybe Albion79 has a point. How many of us thought that Bolton fans were mad when they were complaining about Megson (who kept them up). Eventually they got their way and he was sacked, and where are they now?
I think I would feel more positive about Irvine if there was something in his past that suggested that things were going to come good or something in the recent performances that showed there was significant potential. But I just can't find much of a positive to hang on to.
I think I'm right with:
- Mel was sacked with 15 points from 17 games.
- Clarke was sacked with 15 points from 16 games (after 4 defeats in a row).
You have to expect Irvine's postion to be on a knife's edge.
I don't agree with the suggestion that Peace won't make radical changes if he deems them necessary. If you'd have asked me before the season, I'd have agreed, but I think his mentality has shifted over the summer. After openly admitting the buck stops with him, making eleven signings including substantially breaking our club transfer record, sacking a popular manager and having the balls to appoint Irvine, I now believe Peace would dispense of Downing and Kiely if he thought it was needed. I think it's only a question of whether he recognises that they're a huge part of the problem.
Fed up with this now, persisting with someone whos negative in his approach.I hope they sort it soon because my love for its football is waining. the 12 who vote stay obviously are happy with the worst football the club has ever playedEver Played? poor I admit but have seen worse under other managers. Cheer up mate you will get your wish sooner rather than later.
Fed up with this now, persisting with someone whos negative in his approach.I hope they sort it soon because my love for its football is waining. the 12 who vote stay obviously are happy with the worst football the club has ever playedWhilst i´m firmly in the anti Irvine camp and wish him gone ASAP it is NOT the worst football the club has ever played it very well maybe the worst this century but some of us remember the utter tripe served up under Saunders, Wylie Gould and Little to name but 4. I will agree that it maybe tactically the most inept though :D :D >:( :D
When he does go we will all be relived and anyone who does come we will be happy with by default.
we didn't get relegated with mel though , we never gave him time to implement his style or the following season. THE CLUB SACKED HIM , the clubs no better than the fans they didn't support mel whatsoever even though he kept us up.
Can we get one thing clear, the club didn't sack Mel, he had a discussion with Richard Garlick on the way forward, they could agree, so they decided it would be better to go different ways. That's a whole lot different from a one sided Pepe Mel your'e firedThat's your interpretation of it, and is what was announced but, to my mind, there was something in his contract to allow the club not to continue at the end of the season and they chose not to continue. Things happening supposedly by "mutual consent" are almost always baloney in my experience.
That's your interpretation of it, and is what was announced but, to my mind, there was something in his contract to allow the club not to continue at the end of the season and they chose not to continue. Things happening supposedly by "mutual consent" are almost always baloney in my experience.
Fed up with this now, persisting with someone whos negative in his approach.I hope they sort it soon because my love for its football is waining. the 12 who vote stay obviously are happy with the worst football the club has ever playeddid you come to the West Ham match,for nearly 20 years we struggled against 2nd and 3rd division opposition,currently we are struggling against Chelsea,arsenal & West Ham all in the top 6 of the premiership .20 years ago we were losing to stockport Hartlepool Torquay
Irvine Out
That's your interpretation of it, and is what was announced but, to my mind, there was something in his contract to allow the club not to continue at the end of the season and they chose not to continue. Things happening supposedly by "mutual consent" are almost always baloney in my experience.
did you come to the West Ham match,for nearly 20 years we struggled against 2nd and 3rd division opposition,currently we are struggling against Chelsea,arsenal & West Ham all in the top 6 of the premiership .20 years ago we were losing to stockport Hartlepool Torquay
For those that like stats:
Worst home form at this stage for 30 years
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/analysis-west-broms-home-form-8227002
Stop living in the past, times have moved on, Albion have moved on.
From my view I'd say we are established as a premier league team. We shouldn't just accept being beaten week in week out. We are not minnows or just visiting. We've been a premier league side for a while now. Or are you happy to do that?
For those that like stats:
Worst home form at this stage for 30 years
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/analysis-west-broms-home-form-8227002
give him time its not his fault its everybody elses.
6 home points from 8 games.How many shots on goal, how many crosses from wide. Truely shocking
Irvine out >:(
Sad thing is if we lose to hull I can still see him being kept on.
Hull is his last chance , win that and then beat Villa then fair enough. But lose that it would make it 5 defeats on the bounce which is appalling.
Spot on post that is fella.The players were playing some great football when they had Odemwhingy and Long leading the line. It is hard to play to a static frontline. I don't believe it is down to fear but down to quality. Will any coach get Anichebe to get his hands off his hips and move away from the centre half?
He is a nice bloke, im sure he works his ass off day in day out to try and make things work out but I just dont think his football philosophy is suited to us, I dont think he knows his best squad at all which is why he picks the same week in week out and then hopes that the average points picked up over the season equates to staying up.
I dont get why the new players are not getting picked but in not picking them we will never see if they can be or are good enough for the Premier League.
Im not happy with the football been served up if im honest, and that is down to the head coach as many of the players ive seen play some wonderful football under a different coach.
it seems staying up is the word on the street when we get a head coach no matter what the style of play. however playing defensive football is not doing us any favours, infact our best league position returns have been when we have not been afraid to attack and I still think that would be the case.
It feels like we have gone from being a team that clubs really dont like playing against and became a more feared outfit back to the too much respect for the opposition club like we had when first got into the Prem. That is down to the head coach when you read his comments about the opposition every week. If the guy coaching you is scared of who he is playing then its only natural the team will be setup to counter that fear.
We need to play to our strengths not our weaknesses, if we get relegated, we get relegated, the club is still here and always will be but to go down with very little intent on bringing the game to the opposition is not something I enjoy. I know we cant be gung ho but we have shown in the previous few years that finding a balance will reap rewards for us. This is as good a squad as anything ive seen from Albion and yet we seemed to going backwards playing style. We are historically known for playing fast attractive free flowing football what we are being served up is dour and its not getting the supporters behind them which in turn is affecting the teams confidence. We need a manager that will bring that balance and attractive expressive football and it needs to be done soon or we are doomed and people will start voting with their feet
I suspect, in this day and age, football fans are pretty much the same whatever club it is, aren't they? However, we were in a position where we had a popular head coach (as proved by polls on here and elsewhere) who was nevertheless ejected without getting the basic support from the club (e.g. input into a transfer window) that any head coach should reasonably expect to get, and was then replaced by someone who next to nobody wanted.A popular head coach isn't necessarily a successful one. Clearly he did nothing in the months that he was employed to convince that he deserved to continue and perhaps Irvine will be the same but without the popularity.
Feelings ran extremely high at the time, so it should be no surprise that the level of vitriol is what it is now and the person who's most blameworthy for that is Jeremy Peace, for making an appointment that anyone with half a brain would have known would be unpopular and, therefore, wouldn't be accorded the same level of patience as someone who at least a reasonable proportion of the fans were happy to see appointed. The bed was made and now the Club has to sleep in it.
I agree, the fans haven't sacked or employed anyone the club have, Mel should have been rewarded with his own backroom staff and a full bash at a pre-season and a clearout of the dross he didn't want. The Club (by that I mean JP, Burton, Garlick and the coaches) have got us into this mess with their continual way of doing it on the cheap since Roy and DA went, they took an idea by DA which was working well and completely slaughtered it by putting Garlick in place who hasn't got any footballing acumen to speak of. The appointment of Garlick was once again an on the cheap signing and probably the biggest cock up of all that started this never ending downward spiral.David Gomez seems to consistently be overlooked when referring to the coaching staff under Mel.
The problems obviously lie much deeper than Alan Irvine and even if he's moved on, there is such a lack of options out there that whoever we appoint the fans probably won't like.Mel brought in Gomez, Irvine brought in Rob Kelly. We don't just rely on Downing and Kiely ;-).
We have to be honest with ourselves that Jeremy Peace isn't going to strange the structure of the club - nor will he remove the seemingly untouchable coaching duo of Downing and Kiely so straight away we're narrowing our search options.
Anybody willing to join this club will have to work with the same set of existing players, will have to work to the same budget requirement as Irvine, will have to work in a set up including Downing and Kiely and they will have little influence in terms of recruitment either. I mean, when you consider that, who in their right mind would want to join us?
We're effectively limiting ourselves to 'failures' like Dave Jones, Chris Hughton and unexperienced managers like Steve Round and Paul Clement. Are any of them better options that Alan Irvine?
Mel brought in Gomez, Irvine brought in Rob Kelly. We don't just rely on Downing and Kiely ;-).
David Gomez seems to consistently be overlooked when referring to the coaching staff under Mel.
Get rid otherwise we will go down and the attendence will dwindle.To be honest i expect to lose at Hull (and be frozen) and that will be his lot , talks like a desperate man....does he honestly think the performances are nearly there ?
i just got this feeling come what may hes here for the long haul
I don’t claim to be in the know ion anyway shape or form, however I know someone who is and as I’ve suggested before Alan Irvine isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. He is very well liked by all of the board and the players and works far more hours than most of our previous head coaches / managers.Doesn't matter how well he is liked it's results and partially performances that count , he talks a good game no doubt.
He isn’t a pushover either and commands respect from all of the players and coaching staff.
Doesn't matter how well he is liked it's results and partially performances that count , he talks a good game no doubt.
I doubt hes going to start Valera or even blanco inplace of Brunt which is indefendable and one of the main contributing factors hes been getting so much stick, but i read a quote recently in which he kind of suggested we are not blessed with much outstanding talent players who can turn a game on its head and create something out of nothing, Im very curious about tomorrow were playing a team who has had a very average start to the season they have a couple of there best players out i want to see whether we do carry alot of average plodder or whether its a lack of effort im curious that second half against west ham it looked like we pressed but just lacked that finishing qualities. If its the first im going to lay off the team for a bit as i have always said the first thing i ask for is commitment from an Albion player.
I watched the first couple of minutes of his interview on youtube for this game last night, he mentioned that Valera was feeling the effects of the West Ham game (already got his excuse for not starting him), so I imagine Valera wont be starting.Is that Varela saying he is feeling the effects or some daft spreadsheet? He's only played half an hour, for crying out loud1 Wasn't Irvine spouting last week how players should have no problem playing Sat, Tues, Sat????
The Midfield will be something like Dorrans Mulumbu Gardner Sess, with Anichebe and Berahino up top.
Or possibly, berahino out left in a 5 man midfield with Anichebe up top.
If hes not going to start Varela, I would like to see Samaras played there instead of Berahino.
Alan, no one thinks/thought you're great...
We came through that and everybody thought I was great
Incredible comments.
I'm not sure that being in a cosy relationship with Irvine will make up for the £60m lost revenue... I'm sure that Peace will judge this objectively and that he will remember the basis on which he judged previous incumbents:
- Mel was sacked with 15 points from 17 games.
- Clarke was sacked with 15 points from 16 games (after 4 defeats in a row).
And those to head coaches didn't have the support of less than 10% of the supporters either. Irvine's position just won't be tenable with a vocal part of the crowd against him.
Alan, no one thinks/thought you're great...
We came through that and everybody thought I was great
Incredible comments.
Varela is one of his get of of jail cards , if he started him Irvine would get a dash of credit but i see the excuses are coming out already ::)
In one interview he said that when Varela came on against West Ham he was worried how long he would last. Good grief, he was on for about half an hour and showed no sign of flagging right up to the final whistle, so clearly the worry was ill founded. Given the impact he made, it will be criminal if he doesn't start against Hull.
^^^
And that was reply no 5000 to this thread. Have us punters ever had so many opinions on 1 subject in 14 games?
Agree in large with some of the comments on here and offer my own proposal (won't call it a solution...) to our troubles:
It seems strange to me that Mr Defensive Alan Irvine won't pay two holding midfielders. Yes Gardener can defend and offers something going forward (he looks to go forward more than he does backwards) but Mulumbu and Yacob the past few seasons were up there with the stats for most tackles and interceptions in the league. And I feel not playing them both has added more pressure to the back four. While AI continues to play Wisdom (this years Ridgewell) we cannot invite pressure the way we have been. For 15 minutes of Tuesday we bossed the middle of the park by simply looking to get possession and taking it to West Ham. A mix of players in the middle is essential.
Yacob plays too deep and can't remember the last time he got forward with it and Mulumbu is a shadow of his former box to box best. His ball winning and then pushing forward worked well for us for two seasons but he hasn't done it for a long time (see Swansea away last march for the last time he went forward with it and scored).
So we need a balance that allows us to be solid but still use that ball winning middle to go wide. YM, CY and CG could offer us a solid middle, with Varela and Sess out wide to really push forward. Sess likes to charge up the pitch, as does Varela in his brief game time. So a formation of:Varela Gardner Sess
Mulumbu Yacob
Lumbu and Claudio give a defensive solidarity and Gardner focuses on picking passes either forward down the middle or left and right. He can pass. Varela and Sess to attack the flanks and a striker up top to get onto balls. And that's essential. We haven't got anyone who can make a magic run through defences with any degree of regularity. Saido has his moments but he can't lead a line yet. Lukaku was a great example of a player who can both hold up the ball and smash through the line with relative ease. Brown? No idea what he can do, but with a lone striker role you need to be careful who is up top. There's talent there, just not playing to it.
Gardner's position in that lineup (he's been as poor as I feared lately after a good start) could easily be taken by Morrison, Dorrans (it's their best position anyway) or Brown (he is said to be best just behind the striker), possibly Blanco etc etc etc. Basically we have so many options to the flat nonsense served up by straight jacket Irvine.That's what makes it's so frustrating. He's stifling the talent at the club and that for me is why he needs to go.
The more he talks the more i think there is something very delusional about him TBH. He seems very frightened to me and that is reflected in his team selections and game plan.
I think he knows he is in a job that is above him, thought he had got away with it a few weeks ago and now is back up to his neck in it.
No confidence in his own ability, full of doubts, needs constant praising or defaults back to negativity. Dour man, dour football.
With a moronic coaching staff that keeps pinching themselves to believe they still have a job.
Festering mediocrity heading for relegation, with a squad that is easily mid table....shocking.
he can run but he cant hide.
Yes its been down all day at Teds request
The players are working extremely hard for him and the organisation and defending of the team today were spot on. I think it's a decent point today and we move on to the Villa game. Agree about concerns with the attacking side of our play and that needs to improve without a doubt.
Anyone who thinks thats a good point are deluded like IrvineAny point away from home is good, and I ay deluded. :P
The players are working extremely hard for him and the organisation and defending of the team today were spot on. I think it's a decent point today and we move on to the Villa game. Agree about concerns with the attacking side of our play and that needs to improve without a doubt.
1 goal from open play in nine games. Looking forward to someone trying to defend that.
1 goal from open play in nine games. Looking forward to someone trying to defend that.
Although there can be no denying today was a borefest some of this agenda is getting ridiculous.
As far as i am aware a goal is a goal whether its from a setpiece, own goal or open play? Interesting picking up the last 9 games, what about going backa few before than where it was 2 vs Man United and 4 vs Burnley, 3 vs Hull?
Today was turgid and boring (again) but we have just lost 4 x games on the bounce, i wasnt expecting some all star great football, as with most teams on a bad run, you end the rot, under any other manager it would be classed as professional today, but under Irvine apparently is shocking! its happened with all our previous managers and will happen with all future ones too, thats what sometimes you have to do.
Anybody hearing Irvines interview after may be interested to know he said he didnt want to take Anichebe or Sess off but both were injured but why let that get in the way of things! He also said the plan was to get Varela on anyway, another half hour under his belt, the bloke has been injured for best part of 6 x months and as with most players coming back ease them in.
I sometimes feel i sound an Irvine fan club member, i am not, i am realistic and know the last month hasnt been great but he had a go 2nd half Tuesday night, got a hard earned point today and brought on all attacking players so could say maybe he has acknowledged the sitback approach wasnt working.
The reason i stick up for him because its almost like a witchunt and its crazy, we are 5th from bottom, we could be bottom 3 next week or half way, the league is that tight and we are in the mix and it probably wouldnt matter who was the boss.
We have had a rubbish run of form against 2 x teams who everything they do at the moment goes right (Newcastle and West Ham - play them any other 7 x months of the season and more than fancy us for a result) the champions elect (Chelsea) and a usual top 4 club (Arsenal) I wish we had had more of a go as i hate it too when clubs just sitback but also trying to give it some perspective.
Also pretty much every neutral fans i know seem to think we play decent football and are quite entertaining, granted they havent seen the the 3 games prior to Tuesday and today but in a 38 game season, you are going to have some bad ones.
Also pretty much every neutral fans i know seem to think we play decent football and are quite entertaining, granted they havent seen the the 3 games prior to Tuesday and today but in a 38 game season, you are going to have some bad ones.
Although there can be no denying today was a borefest some of this agenda is getting ridiculous.What is amusing and entertaining is the people moaning about negative football calling for two defensive midfielders and those moaning about not scoring in open play in 9 games complaining about dropping the striker who played in all these games. I also enjoy listening to those who have suddenly labelled Dorrans, Brunt and Morrison as defensive midfielders.
As far as i am aware a goal is a goal whether its from a setpiece, own goal or open play? Interesting picking up the last 9 games, what about going backa few before than where it was 2 vs Man United and 4 vs Burnley, 3 vs Hull?
Today was turgid and boring (again) but we have just lost 4 x games on the bounce, i wasnt expecting some all star great football, as with most teams on a bad run, you end the rot, under any other manager it would be classed as professional today, but under Irvine apparently is shocking! its happened with all our previous managers and will happen with all future ones too, thats what sometimes you have to do.
Anybody hearing Irvines interview after may be interested to know he said he didnt want to take Anichebe or Sess off but both were injured but why let that get in the way of things! He also said the plan was to get Varela on anyway, another half hour under his belt, the bloke has been injured for best part of 6 x months and as with most players coming back ease them in.
I sometimes feel i sound an Irvine fan club member, i am not, i am realistic and know the last month hasnt been great but he had a go 2nd half Tuesday night, got a hard earned point today and brought on all attacking players so could say maybe he has acknowledged the sitback approach wasnt working.
The reason i stick up for him because its almost like a witchunt and its crazy, we are 5th from bottom, we could be bottom 3 next week or half way, the league is that tight and we are in the mix and it probably wouldnt matter who was the boss.
We have had a rubbish run of form against 2 x teams who everything they do at the moment goes right (Newcastle and West Ham - play them any other 7 x months of the season and more than fancy us for a result) the champions elect (Chelsea) and a usual top 4 club (Arsenal) I wish we had had more of a go as i hate it too when clubs just sitback but also trying to give it some perspective.
Also pretty much every neutral fans i know seem to think we play decent football and are quite entertaining, granted they havent seen the the 3 games prior to Tuesday and today but in a 38 game season, you are going to have some bad ones.
What is amusing and entertaining is the people moaning about negative football calling for two defensive midfielders and those moaning about not scoring in open play in 9 games complaining about dropping the striker who played in all these games. I also enjoy listening to those who have suddenly labelled Dorrans, Brunt and Morrison as defensive midfielders.I'm not aware of anyone who's said any of that, other than playing Mulumbu and Yacob, which would give us more balance by allowing us to play three attacking midfielders/wingers who might actually threaten the opposition, e.g.
What is amusing and entertaining is the people moaning about negative football calling for two defensive midfielders and those moaning about not scoring in open play in 9 games complaining about dropping the striker who played in all these games. I also enjoy listening to those who have suddenly labelled Dorrans, Brunt and Morrison as defensive midfielders.
If we stick with Irvine we will have a slow, painful descent to relegation. This may only become apparent to the less perceptual of us when we get to our ominous run-in on the same number of points as our competitors.
Fair comment, i am not saying it is entertaining at the moment, far from it.
However we have played entertaining stuff at times this season too and its like its not acknowledged as its Irvine.
This isnt aimed at you Black Pearl but can anybody let me know the last manager / team we had where the attacking, winning, consistent top flight (not championship) football was played which seems to be the benchmark Irvine is against?
We played good stuff in some games under all our managers going back as far as Megson right upto Pepe Mel but we also had a lot of shockers under those managers too so i just dont get why it was acceptable to have poor runs of form under those managers but it isnt under Irvine? I said previous if we were bottom of the league, boring all season, played no football then i could understand the witchunt but aside from 4 of the last 5 games we have been okay this season, good some games, bad others, and fair to middling in others, the same as every other manager we have had!
I dont think its good to change manager every time you have a run of bad form or peformances, if that run goes past 7 or 8 games then fair enough as thats nearly a quarter of a season, today we stopped the rot, with 2 x winnable games coming up, if we lose them then i can well imagine Irvine will be gone and it would be hard to justify him staying with modern day football as it is.
Did Irvine get booed today by the way, I do hope so! >:(Only on the substitution. We were supportive of the players today, Irvine not really mentioned.
Did Irvine get booed today by the way, I do hope so! >:(Got a loud "you don't know what your doing" after taking Sess off , loud and firm actually .
Thats good to hear Jacko, couldnt really hear on the stream, i think phone-ins and forums are fine if people want to get on a managers back, there the places to do it but at the ground its supporting the team and if not happy with stuff boo at full time (Half time in certain circumstances)
Thats what i mean, all our managers have played attacking football at different points (including Irvine - Sunderland, Burnely, Man United, Tottenham) but also all our managers had some shocking performances, bad runs of form too but i dont remember them having anything like the abuse Irvine has had and they possibly had better players (Odemwingie, Lukaku, Long to name a few) to choose from.
Thats what i mean, all our managers have played attacking football at different points (including Irvine - Sunderland, Burnely, Man United, Tottenham) but also all our managers had some shocking performances, bad runs of form too but i dont remember them having anything like the abuse Irvine has had and they possibly had better players (Odemwingie, Lukaku, Long to name a few) to choose from.All previous manager's have had the bonus of having strikers that showed a bit of movement. Berahino is learning the game and has too much expectation on his shoulders and is not a patch on Lukaku. Anichebe has never been anything other than a lumbering target man. Brown, who knows?
Thats what i mean, all our managers have played attacking football at different points (including Irvine - Sunderland, Burnely, Man United, Tottenham) but also all our managers had some shocking performances, bad runs of form too but i dont remember them having anything like the abuse Irvine has had and they possibly had better players (Odemwingie, Lukaku, Long to name a few) to choose from.
All previous manager's have had the bonus of having strikers that showed a bit of movement. Berahino is learning the game and has too much expectation on his shoulders and is not a patch on Lukaku. Anichebe has never been anything other than a lumbering target man. Brown, who knows?
But we are still picking up points in the games that will matter in our Premier League survival.
You've cited three great players - and let's face it, Lukaku is one step beyond - but overall I think our squad TOGETHER is potentially the strongest it has ever been. There's some deadwood to chop back, players who have been here too long, same with the back room.Do you think getting rid of him will make our strikers any better? (Berahino, who Iisn't the answer yet, has come on considerably under his coaching ;))
Slagging Irvine off at the match is not a solution. Do we think keeping him any longer will do us any good? SERIOUSLY????
Do you think getting rid of him will make our strikers any better? (Berahino, who Iisn't the answer yet, has come on considerably under his coaching ;))
Do you think getting rid of him will make our strikers any better? (Berahino, who Iisn't the answer yet, has come on considerably under his coaching ;))
Irvine has taken all forward movement out of the team. Don't blame the players for playing to Irvine's instructions.Our pass completion in the final third is quite shocking. That might be down to Irvine, but it might be down to the quality we have in the final third? Arguably it could be suggested that it is the coaches job to improve the players in this area (and Berahino could be seen as the example where this is being achieved) but be honest, which teams in the Premier league would take our forwards?
Do you think getting rid of him will make our strikers any better? (Berahino, who Iisn't the answer yet, has come on considerably under his coaching ;))
I'd like him as a assistant/coach nothing more, but Morrison and brunt do need to go, along with Olsson, mulumbu and yacob, make way for o'neil, blanco etcNail on head.Excellent coach.........poor decision maker.
Do you think getting rid of him will make our strikers any better? (Berahino, who Iisn't the answer yet, has come on considerably under his coaching ;))No but it might get them some supply from players allowed nearer than 35m from the opponents goal.
Our pass completion in the final third is quite shocking. That might be down to Irvine, but it might be down to the quality we have in the final third? Arguably it could be suggested that it is the coaches job to improve the players in this area (and Berahino could be seen as the example where this is being achieved) but be honest, which teams in the Premier league would take our forwards?
People say we have our best squad in years, I would agree in most areas but not up top and that is our biggest failure, from Peace, Irvine and our recruitment team.
Nail on head.Excellent coach.........poor decision maker.
Nail on head.Excellent coach.........poor decision maker.
Until the point where we drop into the bottom 3 I don't see Peace getting rid of Irvine. I'm sure the aim at the start of the season was no more than avoiding relegation and Peace will probably look at it and say were no better/worse than probably 9 other teams in the league at this stage.
Anyway, on to the Villa game where i'm sure another substandard borefest awaits.
Look how he's helped Saido, keep him at the club for his original professionThank you.He is highly regarded as a COACH. We need a MANAGER.
Are you blind VVV, our pass completion in the final third is poor because we are so slow and ponderous that the opposition always have at least 9 players behind the ball! Aggghhhhhhhhhhhh! >:(Are we "slow and ponderous" because we have nowhere to go to and is it better to try and keep possession rather than give the ball away?
Are we "slow and ponderous" because we have nowhere to go to and is it better to try and keep possession rather than give the ball away?
Do you not agree that (without having seen Brown properly) we are weaker up front than we have been under any recent manager?
Everywhere he has been he was highly regarded as a COACH. But has struggled as a manager.
Where on earth has he proved himself as an excellent coach
Everywhere he has been he was highly regarded as a COACH. But has struggled as a manager.
They are very different roles. Peace think's otherwise. Not worked. The only time it did was when RH was here and he is a MANAGER. AL has done very good work with young players. I would keep him and ger rid of others while bringing in someone to take us the table.
He wouldn't accept a demotion. Would be highly embarrassing and he'd lose face with the players.Why? They (The Players) say he is a very good coach which he undoubtedly is and put him in his natural role as a No2 While bringing in a proven manager and at this time would my choice be Tony Pulis the two would be a "Dream Ticket" .........but doubt it will happen? We need 26 more points.
Why? They (The Players) say he is a very good coach which he undoubtedly is and put him in his natural role as a No2 While bringing in a proven manager and at this time would my choice be Tony Pulis the two would be a "Dream Ticket" .........but doubt it will happen? We need 36 more points.
If we carry on like this I doubt if we will get there?
Actually, no.Ok. Forwards in current squad: Berahino, Anichebe, Brown, Samaras.
All previous manager's have had the bonus of having strikers that showed a bit of movement. Berahino is learning the game and has too much expectation on his shoulders and is not a patch on Lukaku. Anichebe has never been anything other than a lumbering target man. Brown, who knows?picking up points, 1 out of 15 will not keep us up.
But we are still picking up points in the games that will matter in our Premier League survival.
picking up points, 1 out of 15 will not keep us up.14 out of 15 games would.
Gloster, you talk sense. I don't really like Pulis but that would work far far better than the set up we have now. D & K for me are the worst part of that.....Well, I do not know any inside of D & K but it seems to me that the unrest and undermining of Head Coach points to people wanting them out?And has been for some time.
Well, I do not know any inside of D & K but it seems to me that the unrest and undermining of Head Coach points to people wanting them out?And has been for some time.
The setup that Peace has devised leads us to scrabbling around for coaches that "Want to have a go in the Prem"
My view is yes AI is a very good experienced coach but we need a Manager like Pulis who can keep us away from the exit hatch.
The ONLY time Peace plan worked was when he employed Roy. Now he was a manager...whatever Peace put on the rota!
Roy was definitely a manager....That was the difference. AI is in my view far better than our coaches.But he is not the Manager.
14 out of 15 games would.
It wouldn't though would it. Would be about 35 points!Look at the table ;)
Everywhere he has been he was highly regarded as a COACH. But has struggled as a manager.
They are very different roles. Peace think's otherwise. Not worked. The only time it did was when RH was here and he is a MANAGER. AL has done very good work with young players. I would keep him and ger rid of others while bringing in someone to take us the table.
Look at the table ;)
Jacko, I notice your post has been deleted but I don't think I have ever really given my opinion on Irvine. My "entrenched defense" is actually just posing an alternative argument to most of the emotional bile presented and backed up generally with statements and facts to support them. I also try to highlight internet myths which would be classed as libelous in most arenas.
At the end of the season look at it. Will need 38+ this seasonPossibly. Possibly not. If season was to finish tomorrow we would still be in the Premier League.
HilariousYou may need to look it up before coming out with a post of pure ignorance.
If he is that good a coach why has he only been coaching Evertons Youth Team for the past 3 years
Please provide copies of any libelous comments as we are only human and may miss the odd thing unless they are pointed out to us.It isn't a criticism of any of the mods or the site ( and this is nowhere near as bad as other forms of social media) but I'm sure if you looked back through the 200+ pages you can find plenty of examples (and I have pointed them out previously)
Possibly. Possibly not. If season was to finish tomorrow we would still be in the Premier League.
Because Burnley, Leicester are not that much at all and QPR had a poor start. Not because we have played well. I've said before our best chance of survival under Irvine is if three other teams somehow manage to be worse than us, which is hardly a resounding endorsement. You seem content with mere survival, I have higher demands. If Irvine stays I will simply give up watching. Wasting my life on such nonsense as Irvine serves up would be tragic. I don't think I am alone in that sentiment.Following on from last season, based on our summer dealings, the transition in backroom staff and including the appointment of Alan Irvine, I would be happy with survival (and I despise the greed league and what it is creating)
You may need to look it up before coming out with a post of pure ignorance.
Jacko, I notice your post has been deleted but I don't think I have ever really given my opinion on Irvine. My "entrenched defense" is actually just posing an alternative argument to most of the emotional bile presented and backed up generally with statements and facts to support them. I also try to highlight internet myths which would be classed as libelous in most arenas.
Following on from last season, based on our summer dealings, the transition in backroom staff and including the appointment of Alan Irvine, I would be happy with survival (and I despise the greed league and what it is creating)
Irvine is obviously a very good coach, he wouldn't have got the job if he wasn't.
I hadn't realised it had been deleted, anyway, after 200 or so pages why have you suddenly decided it is the strikers at fault for our poor form?Have I? (Although a lack of goals is not exactly the calling card of a good striker)
Following on from last season, based on our summer dealings, the transition in backroom staff and including the appointment of Alan Irvine, I would be happy with survival (and I despise the greed league and what it is creating)
Irvine is obviously a very good coach, he wouldn't have got the job if he wasn't.
Yes, but the season after this will have it's own excuses. At some point we need to lift our gaze from the relegation line and actually play some football. It's been way too long since we last played decent football and I have no doubt there is so much more football in the current team and squad than what Irvine is capable of. I have to go back to the dreary 80's to recall such negative rubbish 0-0 football. That's when the league turned to the 3 points for a win system to get teams to start playing again. What is the solution next? 4 points for a win?Sacking another manager and bringing in 11 new players we will no doubt end up with a similar scenario next season, I agree. Our best seasons have followed relative stability and replacing players with better players.
Internet myth alert. Probably not quite libellous. ;)
Nobody else would work under peace and the current rule. Until peace changes his philosophy we will always be hiring and firing . Irvine is by far the worst so far under his reign to accept they way peace wants to run a club
I think he does have some good to excellent coaching qualities as the improvement with Saido and also Dawson have shown but there's a big difference between coaching young players and being the man responsible for matchday tactics and for me I just don't think he has it in him to do the job needed at this club.
Just sack him get it over and done with. His football will never change. I would rather be in the championship watching us have a go than in the premier with this idiotLibellous. :o
Most unpopular manager/head coach since Bobby Gould ?
Libellous. :o
Libellous. :o
I think he does have some good to excellent coaching qualities as the improvement with Saido and also Dawson have shown but there's a big difference between coaching young players and being the man responsible for matchday tactics and for me I just don't think he has it in him to do the job needed at this club.
I would have put Dawsons improved development more down to playing alongside Luscott & Saido down to a full pre season & premiership defenders lack of knowledge on him then place it all down to AI coaching.I would agree playing alongside Lescott will have helped Dawsons game (Didn't Lescott say he came to the Albion because of Irvine :-X) but Berahino has been a first team squad member for a number of seasons now, with pre seasons but has only just started to flourish. I'm prepared to accept it as a combination of Irvine and circumstances.
I think he just has to find a way to balance being a well organised and hard to break down team to being a bigger threat going forward. I do think he has us playing as a team, with the players working hard for each other and being well drilled. But we are too slow going forward and lack the width, pace and creativity to break teams down. Irvine said in his post match interview on WM that he wanted us to create more chances and be better going forward so hopefully it's something which we can work on and with Varela getting more minutes he might be ready to start soon to give us some pace out wide.That's no good if he is stuck in a rigid system mate .Irvine's attitude has got to change....
None of that is even bordering on libel mate.Saying his football will never change and that he is an idiot are both libellous. Expressing them as anopinion would not be. ;)
Libellous. :o
Saying his football will never change and that he is an idiot are both libellous. Expressing them as anopinion would not be. ;)
Has he been sacked yet?
Calling someone an idiot is very unlikely to be considered libelous, have you not ever called someone an idiot or worse ?
Saying his football will never change and that he is an idiot are both libellous. Expressing them as anopinion would not be. ;)
Can you see JP getting rid of them two?
You sound like me. I get up and first thing I do is look to see if he is still here. The inevitable is just being delayed, might as well get it over and done with. I just want to see Downing and Keily go with him.
Aye, same here. Not interested in getting in debates anymore because it's blindingly obvious to the overwhelming majority of us that he isn't up to the job. Just a matter of how much longer Peace is going to persist, and who he sacks along with AI. Hopefully Downing, Kiely, Kelly and Burton.
You sound like me. I get up and first thing I do is look to see if he is still here. The inevitable is just being delayed, might as well get it over and done with. I just want to see Downing and Keily go with him.
Can you see JP getting rid of them two?
Calling someone an idiot is very unlikely to be considered libelous, have you not ever called someone an idiot or worse ?You asked ::) I ensure I only commit slander.
I would agree playing alongside Lescott will have helped Dawsons game (Didn't Lescott say he came to the Albion because of Irvine :-X) but Berahino has been a first team squad member for a number of seasons now, with pre seasons but has only just started to flourish. I'm prepared to accept it as a combination of Irvine and circumstances.
Lescott couldn't speak highly enough of Irvine and he's worked under some top managers.
Lescott couldn't speak highly enough of Irvine and he's worked under some top managers.
The longer it goes on the more likely relegation becomes and the closer to the situation becomes to being irreversible. Ironically, it would be in the club's medium-long term interest for us to lose against villa.NO BLOODY WAY why would a Albion fan want to lose against the vile scum bags from Witton. We may want our manager / coach sacked but to lose a game to get him sacked is ridiculous.
The longer it goes on the more likely relegation becomes and the closer to the situation becomes to being irreversible. Ironically, it would be in the club's medium-long term interest for us to lose against villa.
NO BLOODY WAY why would a Albion fan want to lose against the vile scum bags from Witton. We may want our manager / coach sacked but to lose a game to get him sacked is ridiculous.Would you rather us beat villa, Irvine get another few months ultimately ending resulting in our relegation, or lose to villa, get a man in who has a clue and stay up? With the possibility of villa going down instead?
His football changes every game and he is capable of coaching premier league footballers at the highest level because that is what he is currently doing for a living. (Whether he is doing it well is subject to opinion.) I have no particular love for Irvine ;)
His football never changes see his history in a head coach role. He's an idiot to think he's capable of coaching premier league footballers at the highest level. You you be relived of your love for Irvine soon don't worry about that
Posts on a forum like this must be assumed to be opinion rather than factual. AI would have a very tenuous case.I'd be interested to see if you could rely on that defence in a court of law. (Although I don't expect anyone to be taking someone to court for calling them an idiot either but it doesn't mean it isn't potentially libellous)
Would you rather us beat villa, Irvine get another few months ultimately ending resulting in our relegation, or lose to villa, get a man in who has a clue and stay up? With the possibility of villa going down instead?Do you really think that if we win one game that JP will give him more time? Can't see him going until after Christmas no matter what happens and points under Irvine are better than no points at all.
Do you really think that if we win one game that JP will give him more time? Can't see him going until after Christmas no matter what happens and points under Irvine are better than no points at all.Yes... And no, if we lose to villa I think he'll be gone.
I honestly can't see where the next win is coming from with Ted in chargeThat may be true but WANTING OUR TEAM to lose a game to get rid of the coach/manger is another matter.
That may be true but WANTING OUR TEAM to lose a game to get rid of the coach/manger is another matter.Losing a game for "The greater good" might be a way of putting it. The longer AI's in charge, the more we'll suffer.
That may be true but WANTING OUR TEAM to lose a game to get rid of the coach/manger is another matter.If it's in the best interests of the club, why is it? If anything, wanting your team to win a game for your own short-term joy rather than for what's in the best long-term interests of the club is worse
Losing a game for "The greater good" might be a way of putting it. The longer AI's in charge, the more we'll suffer.Exactly
His football changes every game and he is capable of coaching premier league footballers at the highest level because that is what he is currently doing for a living. (Whether he is doing it well is subject to opinion.) I have no particular love for Irvine ;)
Have to say i dont understand if you put some points forward in Irvines favour you get made out to be some nutter!
I didnt want Irvine to get the job, i still have major doubts he is the right bloke for it and think he will get the boot which will probably mean we have lost more games so in that case its deserved, however i am more than happy to give him a fair chance.
I dont think less than half a season is fair to judge somebody when they have had to integrate half a squad, the other half was on its knees because they had played rubbish for 18 x months and didnt improve under Pepe Mel (the love-in for him didnt seem to extend to the people who could of made a difference - the players)
Give him time to put his stamp on the squad, yes at the moment he is conservative, he may always be, but all our attacking signings came from overseas and hadnt played in the Prem before and may of needed a bit of time to get upto standard but now they are been introduced more and more, getting fitter and slowly adapting to the english game, also most good sides are hard to beat first and then expand from there.
Aside from that, take out 4 of the last 5 games, imagine it was Hodgsons as manager and people would say we have been okay, we were halfway in the league, had some very good performance and results (mixed in with some very poor and average ones too) Anybody but Irvine would of got some sort of credit for that, but the first run of bad form and its a crusade for him to go, not one other manager has had this in recent years in such a short time frame, if he had lost 7 or 8 games or had been here a season or so and the club was losing its way, then so be it, but he has been here 15 games!
The recent form has been poor and we havent been hard to beat and so people arent happy and he deserves to have his selections, tactic, etc questioned but is really sacking somebody everytime we hit a run of poor form the answer.
Loads of people on here make some good points for sacking him now, but some just want him sacked purely because he is Alan Irvine and nothing he did in the job would change that, he was always 1 or 2 bad games away from people saying 'told you so', where as surely the best option would be to given a certain time frame to turn it round again because if we start to sack managers every time we lose a run of games and play bad we could be looking at 2 or 3 managers season.
Possibly. Possibly not. If season was to finish tomorrow we would still be in the Premier League.
Have to say i dont understand if you put some points forward in Irvines favour you get made out to be some nutter!
I didnt want Irvine to get the job, i still have major doubts he is the right bloke for it and think he will get the boot which will probably mean we have lost more games so in that case its deserved, however i am more than happy to give him a fair chance.
I dont think less than half a season is fair to judge somebody when they have had to integrate half a squad, the other half was on its knees because they had played rubbish for 18 x months and didnt improve under Pepe Mel (the love-in for him didnt seem to extend to the people who could of made a difference - the players)
Give him time to put his stamp on the squad, yes at the moment he is conservative, he may always be, but all our attacking signings came from overseas and hadnt played in the Prem before and may of needed a bit of time to get upto standard but now they are been introduced more and more, getting fitter and slowly adapting to the english game, also most good sides are hard to beat first and then expand from there.
Aside from that, take out 4 of the last 5 games, imagine it was Hodgsons as manager and people would say we have been okay, we were halfway in the league, had some very good performance and results (mixed in with some very poor and average ones too) Anybody but Irvine would of got some sort of credit for that, but the first run of bad form and its a crusade for him to go, not one other manager has had this in recent years in such a short time frame, if he had lost 7 or 8 games or had been here a season or so and the club was losing its way, then so be it, but he has been here 15 games!
The recent form has been poor and we havent been hard to beat and so people arent happy and he deserves to have his selections, tactic, etc questioned but is really sacking somebody everytime we hit a run of poor form the answer.
Loads of people on here make some good points for sacking him now, but some just want him sacked purely because he is Alan Irvine and nothing he did in the job would change that, he was always 1 or 2 bad games away from people saying 'told you so', where as surely the best option would be to given a certain time frame to turn it round again because if we start to sack managers every time we lose a run of games and play bad we could be looking at 2 or 3 managers season.
Saving grace for the new head coach week after next. Charlie Austin sees red
With the final run-in and without a drastic change in form (winning games) then I don't see how we will reach 38 points by the end of the season.
Have to say i dont understand if you put some points forward in Irvines favour you get made out to be some nutter!The difference being under Hodgson we seen an immediate improvement in performances and results. Under Irvine we've seen neither.
I didnt want Irvine to get the job, i still have major doubts he is the right bloke for it and think he will get the boot which will probably mean we have lost more games so in that case its deserved, however i am more than happy to give him a fair chance.
I dont think less than half a season is fair to judge somebody when they have had to integrate half a squad, the other half was on its knees because they had played rubbish for 18 x months and didnt improve under Pepe Mel (the love-in for him didnt seem to extend to the people who could of made a difference - the players)
Give him time to put his stamp on the squad, yes at the moment he is conservative, he may always be, but all our attacking signings came from overseas and hadnt played in the Prem before and may of needed a bit of time to get upto standard but now they are been introduced more and more, getting fitter and slowly adapting to the english game, also most good sides are hard to beat first and then expand from there.
Aside from that, take out 4 of the last 5 games, imagine it was Hodgsons as manager and people would say we have been okay, we were halfway in the league, had some very good performance and results (mixed in with some very poor and average ones too) Anybody but Irvine would of got some sort of credit for that, but the first run of bad form and its a crusade for him to go, not one other manager has had this in recent years in such a short time frame, if he had lost 7 or 8 games or had been here a season or so and the club was losing its way, then so be it, but he has been here 15 games!
The recent form has been poor and we havent been hard to beat and so people arent happy and he deserves to have his selections, tactic, etc questioned but is really sacking somebody everytime we hit a run of poor form the answer.
Loads of people on here make some good points for sacking him now, but some just want him sacked purely because he is Alan Irvine and nothing he did in the job would change that, he was always 1 or 2 bad games away from people saying 'told you so', where as surely the best option would be to given a certain time frame to turn it round again because if we start to sack managers every time we lose a run of games and play bad we could be looking at 2 or 3 managers season.
The difference being under Hodgson we seen an immediate improvement in performances and results. Under Irvine we've seen neither.
With the final run-in and without a drastic change in form (winning games) then I don't see how we will reach 38 points by the end of the season.
One way of looking at it -
A hypothetical situation, it comes out this afternoon that Irvine has been sacked.
Tomorrow morning we appoint one of Gary Neville / Martin Jol / Tim Sherwood / Roy Hodgson / Pepe Mel / Bob Geldof / basically somebody who the majority of the fans want.
Their record for the next 15 x games is -
Played 15 / Won 3 / Drew 5 / Lost 7 / Scored 14 / Conceded 20
Just say we are still 15th in league after what would then be 30 x games, we have had very similar performances and runs of form (good and bad) to the 15 games under Irvine, the style of play and selections are the same as Irvine's.
Would you be calling for the new coach / manager to be sacked?
If so on that basis we will be having 3 x head coaches a season.
As you say hypothetical - so are you advocating that we carry on with Irvine no matter what - obviously not, so at what point would you say enough is enough, end of season, 20 games and how many points would you expect after 20 games, bearing in mind that we have to give the new coach/manager enough time to save us from the doomsday scenario? that is the question you need to be asking - not taking the moral high ground, whilst our Club disintegrates?.
As you say hypothetical - so are you advocating that we carry on with Irvine no matter what - obviously not, so at what point would you say enough is enough, end of season, 20 games and how many points would you expect after 20 games, bearing in mind that we have to give the new coach/manager enough time to save us from the doomsday scenario? that is the question you need to be asking - not taking the moral high ground, whilst our Club disintegrates?.
looks a decent point at Hull
Nice stat for those who firmly put the lack of goals at the door of Irvines negative play.
The strikers available to him have made approx 270 premier league appearance and scored 40 odd goals.
Berahino before Irvine had scored 5 in 32 now has 7 in 15.
Whoever is our manager during the January window needs to make sure we have someone brought in who can put it in the back of the net.
If it's in the best interests of the club, why is it? If anything, wanting your team to win a game for your own short-term joy rather than for what's in the best long-term interests of the club is worseI want my team to win every game not just one against the Vile. People say lose a game for the greater good of the club, isn't getting 3 points for the greater good of the club more important. I have been a Baggies for over 50 years and never have I wanted to OUR TEAM to go out and lose a game so the manager gets the boot and I have seen some rubbish managers in my time. I am no Irvine lover, didn't want him but gave him a chance but he has blown that chance now and will soon get the sack.
I want my team to win every game not just one against the Vile. People say lose a game for the greater good of the club, isn't getting 3 points for the greater good of the club more important. I have been a Baggies for over 50 years and never have I wanted to OUR TEAM to go out and lose a game so the manager gets the boot and I have seen some rubbish managers in my time. I am no Irvine lover, didn't want him but gave him a chance but he has blown that chance now and will soon get the sack.This is the first time in my history of supporting the club I've ever felt like this so I think that says something about my confidence in Irvine. I'm not quite sure you understand the situation- if we beat villa, peace will give Irvine more time, and in that time, we'll lose more points than we would if we lost to villa, Irvine was sacked, and a competent head coach was appointed. Getting enough points over the course of the season is obviously more important than getting enough points in one game
This is the first time in my history of supporting the club I've ever felt like this so I think that says something about my confidence in Irvine. I'm not quite sure you understand the situation- if we beat villa, peace will give Irvine more time, and in that time, we'll lose more points than we would if we lost to villa, Irvine was sacked, and a competent head coach was appointed. Getting enough points over the course of the season is obviously more important than getting enough points in one gameAnd this competent coach comes in and we still get relegated by say 3 points how would you feel then.
And this competent coach comes in and we still get relegated by say 3 points how would you feel then.Yeah, you still don't get it do you
Yes, we need to spend £10m-plus on a striker. Wait a minute, didn't we already do that ?We need to bring someone in who can score goals. If that is on a free or loan or costs us £50M it is our best chance of survival.
We need to bring someone in who can score goals. If that is on a free or loan or costs us £50M it is our best chance of survival.Brown Ideye has a track-record of scoring goals. It's just that Irvine won't play him.
Saving grace for me is that they are due an off day at home after beating burnley and leicester!
One game ban, he'll be ok to play against us
Saving grace for me is that they are due an off day at home after beating burnley and leicester!
Brown Ideye has a track-record of scoring goals. It's just that Irvine won't play him.Torres had a great scoring record before he went to Chelsea. If he thought he was capable of scoring the goals the fans demand that he wouldn't be playing now?
Yeah, you still don't get it do youI still don't get why any fan would want their team to lose a game so that a manager gets the sack. I will be cheering the lads on Saturday and praying for a win and would do no matter who we are playing.
38 points looks impossible with the current set-up.Have they? We beat leicester away, burnley at home, got points against palace and sunderland at home. We still have a number of winnable fixtures to go! Also if we don't have the points by that stage, you only have to look at Sunderland last season who had a sensational finish with their run-in...
Remember, many of our winnable games have come and gone AND we have the finish from hell where we'll need to be 6/7 points clear of the relegation zone at that point to survive I fear.
Torres had a great scoring record before he went to Chelsea. If he thought he was capable of scoring the goals the fans demand that he wouldn't be playing now?I suspect if Irvine thought he could score goals he'd play him. However, I trust Ideye's goalscoring history much more than I trust Alan Irvine's judgement.
I still don't get why any fan would want their team to lose a game so that a manager gets the sack. I will be cheering the lads on Saturday and praying for a win and would do no matter who we are playing.Yeah that's fair enough, I'm not trying to tell you what you should want! I do understand why people still want us to beat Villa even if it means Irvine staying on. I just personally think it would be more in the club's medium to long term interests to lose so that Irvine goes sooner and we "hopefully" replace him with a more competent manager, meaning the new man has more games to win points and we finish the season with a higher points total, thus less likely to end in relegation.
You have your views and I have mine ;)
The only problem with ditching Irvine is that our club takes the best part of 2 months to appoint a manager. We'd no doubt have Keith Downing in charge for all that time, we could be cut adrift by the end of Jan.That's the worry. Peace needs to already be identifying replacements so he can appoint as soon as possible.
WBAFCofficial @WBAFCofficial · 4m
Albion delighted to announce Alan Irvine will be appointed as their new Head Coach. He has agreed a 12-month rolling contract #wba 1/3
WBAFCofficial @WBAFCofficial · 4m
Irvine will complete his move to The Hawthorns once he has officially signed off from his current role as Everton’s academy manager 2/3
WBAFCofficial @WBAFCofficial · 3m
Irvine will bring Rob Kelly to work as Joint-Assistant Head Coach alongside Keith Downing, whilst Dean Kiely will remain as GK Coach 3/3
it still winds me up. that should be framed and hung on jps office door with the words WHAT HAVE I DONE underneath it.
I thought this was a wind up at the time
You can bet the players will be putting in 100% again against Villa. Hopefully us supporters get behind the team and create a good atmosphere which won't half help the players. A win and things will be looking better.
You can bet the players will be putting in 100% again against Villa. Hopefully us supporters get behind the team and create a good atmosphere which won't half help the players. A win and things will be looking better.The atmosphere from the supporters will be fine until;
He had an opportunity yesterday to win us over with an attacking winning display but he continues to be cautious and negative. This man will never change his football beliefs, he will never be accepted. i cant see the agony going past the QPR game unless for some reason he allows the supporters to pick the teamI would love to see that, would your formation would be 1-1-8 ;D
I would love to see that, would your formation would be 1-1-8 ;D
Nice stat for those who firmly put the lack of goals at the door of Irvines negative play.
The strikers available to him have made approx 270 premier league appearance and scored 40 odd goals.
Berahino before Irvine had scored 5 in 32 now has 7 in 15.
Whoever is our manager during the January window needs to make sure we have someone brought in who can put it in the back of the net.
Cards on the table , I'd sooner have Downing in charge for a few weeks than Irvine now and i don't have to list why as we have all covered his faults in the last few months...basically he has had his chance.While I'm aware many are against Downing and Kiely we had a decent run over Christmas with them last year and the football can't possibly be any worse than Irvine's . The bloke's got to go and to be honest i half expected/hoped he would have gone today , looks like a good drubbing by Villa will have to be the tipping point! :(True, but if the totally incompotent Downing and Kiely were to be given the role til the end of the season we'd still go down. The sooner there's an overhaul the better
Yet it is poor to delete my post to tylerm in response to AL coaching as "hilarious". You simply need to Google his record of coaching. No wonder people are leaving this site.Which used to allow debate.My pointing out "ignorance" . Stands his record is there coaching wise for all to see.
I would love to see that, would your formation would be 1-1-8 ;D
It beggers belief that IR was 'delighted' with yesterdays result! They were dreadful and their goalie had to make 2 saves Wow! We have now played 750 minutes of football away from home and not scored from open play, just 4 goals ( 1 header - 1 pen - 2 OG's ). how much longer will this idiot be in charge, supporters will desert us never to return if this carries on much lobger.
Or the alternative is that the manager gets his sides set up to provide some service to our forwards.History seems to blight our coach but gets overlooked for our players.
Given the chance our forwards will more than likely score goals but at the moment they're being starved by those behind them.
Yet it is poor to delete my post to tylerm in response to AL coaching as "hilarious". You simply need to Google his record of coaching. No wonder people are leaving this site.Which used to allow debate.My pointing out "ignorance" . Stands his record is there coaching wise for all to see.
I think it fair to say that most of us think that Irvine is a really rubbish, negative manager.
But it seems he is popular at the Hawthorns with players and management and his training sessions are enjoyable. He also has a good reputation for coaching younger players.
My worry is , and it grows by the game, i looked at the fixtures before the season started and thought we had a good chance of being in a comfortable position.
We are talking about Albion here but we should be alot better off and I think we will be in a similar position to last season come xmas.Give us all a early xmas present JP get rid NOW.
History seems to blight our coach but gets overlooked for our players.
If our strikers are starving theynneed to help our midfielders to feed them.
Another little stat for the fans, in the 15 league games before Irvine arrived we scored 17 goals under our saviour Pepe Mel, a massive 3 more than we have in the 15 league games under the "clueless" Irvine.With a completely different squad. Mel would make much more out of the squad Irvine now has at his disposal.
In the first 15 under Clarke last season, we also managed to score a massive 3 more than we have under Irvine.
Perhaps the root cause of the problem is deeper than the coach?
Another little stat for the fans, in the 15 league games before Irvine arrived we scored 17 goals under our saviour Pepe Mel, a massive 3 more than we have in the 15 league games under the "clueless" Irvine.
Perhaps the root cause of the problem is deeper than the coach?
It's back to when Clarke was in charge, I can't face reading any articles in the news about the team and how dreadful we are. I firmly believe we have the players to do well, however we needed a coach or manager higher than conference level. In quiet moments I sit back and still try to fathom wtf the club were thinking when they employed this bloke.
There you go gloucesterbaggie-I did Google his coaching recordpreston and sheff Wednesday fans thought they had it bad with Irvine even with a 40% win rate, its 22% for us, doh. paddle pooh and creek.
I hope the link works but you are free to tell me which bit of his coaching history you can call'second to none' or 'impressive'
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Irvine_%28footballer,_born_1958%29
We all know hat Pepe Mel was undermined by the players,was not supported by the directors and that Downing/Kiely were in charge
If Pepe Mel had been properly supported in May this year there is no doubt we would be much better off now
Instead we gave way to player power-that's why we need a manager to take control
Irvine is just the players puppet so that's why they like him
Another little stat for the fans, in the 15 league games before Irvine arrived we scored 17 goals under our saviour Pepe Mel, a massive 3 more than we have in the 15 league games under the "clueless" Irvine.the only stats that matter is points per game ratio if sustained will most likely see us relegated.
In the first 15 under Clarke last season, we also managed to score a massive 3 more than we have under Irvine.
Perhaps the root cause of the problem is deeper than the coach?
We all know hat Pepe Mel was undermined by the players,was not supported by the directors and that Downing/Kiely were in chargeInternet myth alert.
If Pepe Mel had been properly supported in May this year there is no doubt we would be much better off now
Instead we gave way to player power-that's why we need a manager to take control
Irvine is just the players puppet so that's why they like him
preston and sheff Wednesday fans thought they had it bad with Irvine even with a 40% win rate, its 22% for us, doh. paddle pooh and creek.Pepe Mel win ratio at Real Betis 42% and 17.65% for us but some people think he was Corberan?
There is no compelling evidence to suggest that we would have been any better off under Pepe Mel.
There you go gloucesterbaggie-I did Google his coaching record
I hope the link works but you are free to tell me which bit of his coaching history you can call'second to none' or 'impressive'
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Irvine_%28footballer,_born_1958%29
You need also to see what players say about the help he has given/coached them.You can see the improvement of Dawson and Saido for a start. What I am saying he could well be good on the coaching/assistant role but NOT what passes as are Manager.These days.Only one has done well RH.
Regarding the improvements of Dawson and Saido, is that down to coaching or just a coming of age? This is the first time both players have had good runs in our starting eleven, both have always had the natural talent and potential to be Premier League footballers, they just needed a run in the team and credit to Irvine for giving them that game time.Yes. He gave them a chance. But he is not a decision maker in my humble view. But he seems able to build confidence in players. Not so good on the "Chess Board" though.
Pepe Mel win ratio at Real Betis 42% and 17.65% for us but some people think he was Corberan?
How many more times, PepeMel had no support whatsoever . He got plenty of back stabbers though. They all have it far to easy at the Albion nowAnd as has been asked before, if it is true, why did he have no support? Because he was such a popular man with great ideas for moving the club forward or because we realised the mistake that had been made appointing him?
Regarding the improvements of Dawson and Saido, is that down to coaching or just a coming of age? This is the first time both players have had good runs in our starting eleven, both have always had the natural talent and potential to be Premier League footballers, they just needed a run in the team and credit to Irvine for giving them that game time.flip the coin and under Irvine, dorrans and mulumbu look poorer players than when mel was here, also fosters kicking has gone diabolical.
flip the coin and under Irvine, dorrans and mulumbu look poorer players than when mel was here, also fosters kicking has gone diabolical.Surely Foster is coached by DK? Dorrans looked good under Mel. Mulumbu always looked ok/good.But they are not young players.They know or should the drills.Gmac came back as never been out?
Surely Foster is coached by DK? Dorrans looked good under Mel. Mulumbu always looked ok/good.But they are not young players.They know or should the drills.Gmac came back as never been out?both about 27, hardly old either.
flip the coin and under Irvine, dorrans and mulumbu look poorer players than when mel was here, also fosters kicking has gone diabolical.
Another little stat for the fans, in the 15 league games before Irvine arrived we scored 17 goals under our saviour Pepe Mel, a massive 3 more than we have in the 15 league games under the "clueless" Irvine.
In the first 15 under Clarke last season, we also managed to score a massive 3 more than we have under Irvine.
Perhaps the root cause of the problem is deeper than the coach?
Your stat tells us the 2 previous failed coaches both had more attacking flair than Ted. Well done we already knew that.You're welcome. ;D
There you go gloucesterbaggie-I did Google his coaching record
I hope the link works but you are free to tell me which bit of his coaching history you can call'second to none' or 'impressive'
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Irvine_%28footballer,_born_1958%29
And as has been asked before, if it is true, why did he have no support? Because he was such a popular man with great ideas for moving the club forward or because we realised the mistake that had been made appointing him?We don't know, so why do you ask? All we can say is that it made no sense whatsoever to bring him in and then do nothing to help him achieve what he was brought in to do.
His record is worse than Irvines at the Albion and people suggest I over defend Irvine!Pepe never got the opportunity to bring in any players. All new managers/coaches should get the chance to do that before they're judged, unless they're tenure is cataclysmically awful. During the time Irvine has been here, we've signed virtually a team full. I really do wonder what it will take for you to change your mind about Irvine?
Have they? We beat leicester away, burnley at home, got points against palace and sunderland at home. We still have a number of winnable fixtures to go! Also if we don't have the points by that stage, you only have to look at Sunderland last season who had a sensational finish with their run-in...
an Average of one shot on goal every game.If we dont beat Villa and i mean dont beat not draw i wont be going to the hawthorns again until this neagative coach has gone
an Average of one shot on goal every game.If we dont beat Villa and i mean dont beat not draw i wont be going to the hawthorns again until this neagative coach has gone
Same here. I said it as i left the ground last tuesday and sticking to it. Only going on saturday because it is the vile. Season ticket can be put to better uses:
a. scraping ice off the car
b. stopping the table in the hall from wobbling
c. smoothing filler
other suggestions on a postcard please
We don't know, so why do you ask? All we can say is that it made no sense whatsoever to bring him in and then do nothing to help him achieve what he was brought in to do.The truth of the matter is that neither Mel or Irvine are any good. We ended up with both after long and protracted interview processes, which brings us to the real crux of the problem and that is that our recruitment process is hamstrung by the set up restrictions.
Pepe never got the opportunity to bring in any players. All new managers/coaches should get the chance to do that before they're judged, unless they're tenure is cataclysmically awful. During the time Irvine has been here, we've signed virtually a team full. I really do wonder what it will take for you to change your mind about Irvine?
Every game is winnable, maybe if we tried to win them from the start we might just win a few more
I wonder how many of the fans who originally asked for a refund when AI was appointed, wish they had taken the clubs offer to refund now.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-ben-foster-says-8243981 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-ben-foster-says-8243981)
Foster speaking highly of Irvine..
“He made a few changes and I think it worked. That formation and that team selection it really does work for us,â€
“We are all battling for the gaffer at the same time. He is a great guy, we all really like him, we all get on well with him. You hear a few murmurings in the press recently and we are trying to pay no attention to it. We all want the gaffer to be here as long as possible.â€
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-ben-foster-says-8243981 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-ben-foster-says-8243981)
Foster speaking highly of Irvine..
“He made a few changes and I think it worked. That formation and that team selection it really does work for us,â€
“We are all battling for the gaffer at the same time. He is a great guy, we all really like him, we all get on well with him. You hear a few murmurings in the press recently and we are trying to pay no attention to it. We all want the gaffer to be here as long as possible.â€
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-ben-foster-says-8243981 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-ben-foster-says-8243981)It is good to hear that the players are backing him, he must be doing something right. That being said the ones that back him seem to be the ones that are virtually guaranteed a start (Foster / Lescott / Brunt). That's true of most clubs though.
Foster speaking highly of Irvine..
“He made a few changes and I think it worked. That formation and that team selection it really does work for us,â€
“We are all battling for the gaffer at the same time. He is a great guy, we all really like him, we all get on well with him. You hear a few murmurings in the press recently and we are trying to pay no attention to it. We all want the gaffer to be here as long as possible.â€
For what it's worth I think Irvine is getting the best out of the players at his disposal and is getting dictated to by others who he should play.
Give him 6 months without the gruesome twosome, if we go down , we go down, would go down anyway regardless of who we bring in.
Mulumbu looks worse, cause he ain't playing him; Dorrans looks worse cause Mel got the best out of him, for 2 months
That makes no sense. We have never been this negative under Downing. In fact Downing changed the team basically on a game by game basis, while Irvine keeps the same 'play sideways and back style' in every single game. Downing without doubt is a huge fan of Hodgson and tried to set up variations of RH's style most of the time but this super negative approach came in with Irvine.
I'd rather have Downing than Irvine tbh.
Give Downing the job then, easy peasyThat's going backwards, we need new blood not a transfusion.
That's going backwards, we need new blood not a transfusion.
I think they only reason Downing didnt take the job last year was because I think deep down he knows hes comfortable in his current role. He has seen 'head coaches' come and go yet he has remained in a job.
If he moved up to take the Head Coach role and failed, he would be out of a job. At present hes comfortable and earning money.
It's not going backwards, it's a step out of the Irvine disaster so it is a step forward until we can bring in someone who has a clue.It really is criminal. With the right manager this squad should be in the top-half. The worst thing for me is that we have the players, they're just not being played by our incompetent coaching team.
I doubt we have someone lined up to step in straight away, so what will happen is that Irvine will cling on for ages and ages and ages until we are into late winter/early spring and not enough time is left to save the season, especially with our tough finish.
My guess is that we will be well cut off by then together with Hull, Leicester and Burnley. If Hull and QPR find a bit of form well that's it for us.
I think they only reason Downing didnt take the job last year was because I think deep down he knows hes comfortable in his current role. He has seen 'head coaches' come and go yet he has remained in a job.
If he moved up to take the Head Coach role and failed, he would be out of a job. At present hes comfortable and earning money.
I could be wrong but didn't Downing say last season he was interested in going into management but he didn't want the Albion job full time.
Maybe he knows what the issues are behind the scenes and wouldn't want to have to deal with them on a full time basis
Every game is losable, maybe if we keep it tight and avoid losing we can snatch a win now and then when we magically get all the breaks going our way. This works now and then but not very often, still we must persist with this model at all costs since Every game is losable, maybe if we keep it tight and avoid losing we can snatch a win now and then when.... (repeat this loop ad nauseam).
Actually, that's a really interesting theory - seriously.
As I've said on another topic, I don't understand this differentiation between a manager & a head coach, the principle works in other sports & there's no reason why it shouldn't work in football, but...............
Does anybody know for certain how our Coaching structure is set-up?
a)I assume that AI reports in to TB, & DK, KD & RK report in to AI, but what if they all report in to TB? Doesn't that undermine AI?
b)What are DK, KD & RK's main responsibilities? I assume that DK's speciality is goalkeeping, with the other two specialising in defence & attack.If that's not the case, then we might need to balance the coaching team.
c)What does AI look for when he's viewing our next opponents? Does he do a "SWOT" test (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats) or does he just focus on their strengths & threats?
I'm not convinced we're doing a lot wrong, & IMO we don't need to rip up the blueprint & start again, but we do need to take a look at how the structure is set up, because clearly something's not right.
Very depressing. Not even having much of a go when it was obvious what a poor team Hull were.
Given time (that I hope he isn't going to get) I might subscribe to the opinion that AI is a good coach. But I don't think I have seen anything to lead me to believe that he is a tactician, motivator or leader. If they are not needed in the Head Coach position then where, in the club, does this come from?
We need someone who is going to lead this club and take people (players, colleagues and fans) with them. Someone, that is going to come up with a tactical plan to succeed (not just to defend and hope for the best). We need someone who is going to change talented assets like Blanco and Brown from squad fillers into points winners. We need someone who is going to inspire everyone.
I don't think that person was on the short list for the Head Coaches position back in May/June. So you have to try to make the job as attractive as possible in order to get them in. So, JP, please go and find him. Give them whatever job title they want, put the right support staff around them to create the environment to succeed rather than trying to jam the wrong person into the wrong position. Its essential if you want to maintain your £80m turnover.
Very depressing. Not even having much of a go when it was obvious what a poor team Hull were.
Given time (that I hope he isn't going to get) I might subscribe to the opinion that AI is a good coach. But I don't think I have seen anything to lead me to believe that he is a tactician, motivator or leader. If they are not needed in the Head Coach position then where, in the club, does this come from?
We need someone who is going to lead this club and take people (players, colleagues and fans) with them. Someone, that is going to come up with a tactical plan to succeed (not just to defend and hope for the best). We need someone who is going to change talented assets like Blanco and Brown from squad fillers into points winners. We need someone who is going to inspire everyone.
I don't think that person was on the short list for the Head Coaches position back in May/June. So you have to try to make the job as attractive as possible in order to get them in. So, JP, please go and find him. Give them whatever job title they want, put the right support staff around them to create the environment to succeed rather than trying to jam the wrong person into the wrong position. Its essential if you want to maintain your £80m turnover.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-ben-foster-says-8243981 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-ben-foster-says-8243981)That comment from Foster is sufficiently crass to justify everything that he said being ignored!
Foster speaking highly of Irvine..
“He made a few changes and I think it worked. That formation and that team selection it really does work for us,â€
I'd rather have Downing than Irvine tbh.I'd rather have neither of them thanks - it's long overdue time for a new broom.
Another reason why I see Irvine being here until end of January is, if Irvine is correct when he says the summer signings aint good enough, and we get a new manager in, he is going to want to spend and change the squad in January.
We are known to not spend, or spend very little in January so that could potentialy put off any new coach from coming in.
Which leaves AI in a job until February, by that time we will be close to gone (if current performances continue).
I'd rather have neither of them thanks - it's long overdue time for a new broom.
Imagine how depressing it's going to be when come the end of January he's still here and he's got rid of Ideye, Blanco and Varela without giving them a chance, before employing Chris Baird as the linchpin in our midfield for the remainder of the season. That's going to be fun isn't it?!Don't even joke
I'm actually starting to wonder if JP is happy to take another stint in the Championship, in truth.
There seems to be no real eye brows being raised from the top regarding the constant stick Alan Irvine is receiving.
Maybe, just maybe, JP is thinking 'there's nobody to appoint who'll work in the system' who would do the job required.
Therefore, we get relegated, regroup with a fresh championship head coach who would hopefully (from JP's point of view) get us promoted within two seasons.
I will give it until next Monday and if we don't beat Villa and he doesn't sack him then I'm convinced of the above.
I'm actually starting to wonder if JP is happy to take another stint in the Championship, in truth.Ive just been reading about Irvines credentials again and i literally cant think of any other explanation. This is literally the last man you'd want to appoint, just like when Mcleish was at the Villa. It's beyond baffling, we have nothing positive about us whatsoever. We're timid, fans are rapidly losing patience, and those who fork out hundreds and thousands (myself included) to watch us up and down the country are being made to look like absolute mugs. We had a great chance to kick on from last seasons horror show, and we've firmly blown it.
I thought it was a spoof when I first saw it.I also think we'll scrape it. The two you've mentioned and one of us,hull, or qpr.
I now keep getting that strange feeling when you wake up from a dream that it can't be true... oh thank God it was just a dream... except it isn't. I cannot see any logic, however left field, at all in this appointment, anywhere, anyhow, anyway.
I am sure he is a decent a human being, a good husband and kind father etc etc. And...?
We still might just stay up as Burnley and Leicester look so weak that it is probably them plus ANO, but that still doesn't make any sense of the appointment.
I honestly don’t think he is as bad as some people say he is, however it is clear he has almost zero support from the fans. His position will become untenable sooner or later.
As for those who keep harping on about Pepe Mel, the man was inept and lived in a fantasy land.
Step forward Dingle Keith and Dave Jones.
Good post Mister AT. The way he sets up will send us down.
The way he is set up essentially is playing for a 0-0, and even if it worked everygame we would still be relegated as it won't get us enough points. There needs to be much more attacking intent from the outset.
My logic is;It's almost as if he is happy with losing by small margins and not getting a tonking.
We could setup 4-5-1 (Def) (this is a FIFA 15 formation which i think Irvine is using, he has also toggled to 'Ultra Defensive' mode, only the FIFA15 users will understand this but you get my point).
If we used this system for 38 games, we would still lose more than we win as we are all realists.
However, we may only win 6-8 games.
If, however, we setup 4-5-1 (Att) or 4-3-3 or whatever we want, it increases the chances of winning a game.
Yes, we would still lose more than we win, but surely giving yourself a greater chance of winning 9-13 games a season would guarantee safety.
With Irvine in charge we are cutting it very, very fine to stay up. This is in light of how many points we could achieve/should achieve.
I think he is going to turn it around and I also think we will beat Villa.I hope you are right, but don't share your optimism.
5. Tactics.
Albion began on the front foot as they did against West Ham. But unlike against the Hammers they finished on the back foot.
Too many passes went sideways or backwards, too many good situations were squandered. But this is nothing to do with Irvine.
This is down to flair players either being incapable or totally lacking in confidence to try something different.
That can only change with a win
Bill Howell is a fool, he thinks players are responsible for tactics, no wonder his colleagues got jobs in football and he didn't
Probably needs a separate topic, but I'm not impressed with the Evening Mail reports at the moment. CL wrote good sensible copy, I might not have agreed with him sometimes, but his arguments were mostly valid. Since he left, both Brian Dick & Bill Howells' reports are more akin to infant school playground writing.Slightly off topic but I agree with these sentiments regarding the local press. The Mail’s replacements have been poor, it seems unclear whether Dick and Howell are just temporary replacements or if they are now indeed the permanent Albion reporters, but neither seems to have a thorough understanding of the club. Howell’s articles seem to simply revolve around “5 things we learnt†and there also seems to be far too many articles based on fans tweets. Dick at times seems to be completely out of whack with what is happening on the pitch, he awarded Mulumbu a MOM a month or so ago in a game in which he was very poor in. I think he traditionally specialises in rugby reporting rather than football.
Probably due to the EM belonging to the "Trinity Mirror" group, it looks like amateur attempts at the sensationalism the DM is renowned for.
Every game is losable, maybe if we keep it tight and avoid losing we can snatch a win now and then when we magically get all the breaks going our way. This works now and then but not very often, still we must persist with this model at all costs since Every game is losable, maybe if we keep it tight and avoid losing we can snatch a win now and then when.... (repeat this loop ad nauseam).
If you want a good laugh go and read Bill Howell's 5 things we learnt at Hull on the B'ham Mail website , number 5 is a classic! ???They couldn't wait to get the knives out for Pepe Mel, but Irvine seems to be totally teflon-coated as far as the Mail is concerned at present, for some reason.
They couldn't wait to get the knives out for Pepe Mel, but Irvine seems to be totally teflon-coated as far as the Mail is concerned at present, for some reason.
I may be totally wrong; but maybe Downing/Kiely/Brunt/Olsson etc felt threatened by Mel's change of approach.
Maybe they all knew to stay in a job they would need him gone.
Conspiracy yes, but maybe something along these lines?
I think he is going to turn it around and I also think we will beat Villa.And you base this optimism on what? Please do tell as we could all do with a ray of hope !! Personally i can see nothing on the horizon that encourages me, just watch any game in the prem and see how much quicker EVERY other team plays compared with our pedestrians.
I honestly don’t think he is as bad as some people say he is, however it is clear he has almost zero support from the fans. His position will become untenable sooner or later.
As for those who keep harping on about Pepe Mel, the man was inept and lived in a fantasy land.
Step forward Dingle Keith and Dave Jones.
It isn't just the local press that aren't drawing the knives on Irvine but from what I have read and seen, the national coverage is not creating as huge a drama out of the situation as our own supporters are. Take the emotions and expectations away and there is less hysteria ..... plus no one outside our fan basegives a monkeys! :-X
It isn't just the local press that aren't drawing the knives on Irvine but from what I have read and seen, the national coverage is not creating as huge a drama out of the situation as our own supporters are.The national media were appalled when Steve Clarke was sacked, but many Albion fans thought his time was up. Irvine showed nothing at Sheff Wed and Preston and, unsurprisingly, has shown nothing here either, so you'd expect there to be little surprise if he went, but I'm sure the national media would all be nonplussed.
I think they only reason Downing didnt take the job last year was because I think deep down he knows hes comfortable in his current role. He has seen 'head coaches' come and go yet he has remained in a job.I see no reason or evidence to suggest that a single word in your post is false! I have had the same exact feelings since he expressed he had no interest in taking the job on a permanent basis! Both he and Kiely have job security in their current positions and make a nice living no matter how good or bad the team performs! In my opinion these two are the problem, and for me it is the mystery of the century why JP keeps them around, I just can't wrap my head around it.
If he moved up to take the Head Coach role and failed, he would be out of a job. At present hes comfortable and earning money.
Southampton had four players in the box against utd, when going forward. Do we have four players in the box
I see no reason or evidence to suggest that a single word in your post is false! I have had the same exact feelings since he expressed he had no interest in taking the job on a permanent basis! Both he and Kiely have job security in their current positions and make a nice living no matter how good or bad the team performs! In my opinion these two are the problem, and for me it is the mystery of the century why JP keeps them around, I just can't wrap my head around it.If i remember correctly Downing did not want to be considered for the job mainly because of Mcdonough was pulling strings behind the scenes , he wasn't all of Clarke's downfall but i believe he was a big factor (Clarke knew nothing of Lugano signing for one instance ). As i posted earlier I'd be happy to have Downing back in charge for a few weeks.
Is anyone else getting worried about the Alan Pardew effect?......the fact that all the NUFC fans were calling for his head, but their chairman ignored them. Now look at them a few weeks later. Is JP going to hope for the same change of fortune with us?That has crossed my mind but Pardew has a good record at nearly all his clubs , I'm afraid our Alan has nothing like that. My worry is as JP was involved in appointing Irvine he won't pull the trigger very quick , on one hand he put a lot of faith in Irvine and on the other the football's dire and results aren't great....the question is how long will he wait and will they be using this time to size up other Manager's/ HC's ? . I'm beginning to think even defeat to Villa wouldn't see the back of him.
I'm dreading the villa game, they're all really up for it, the fans and players.
We are told he is a good coach but I've not seen anything to prove this yet!
Can he get players fit? Apparently not, even after having them for 4 or 5 months.
Can he coach them into better players? Nah, Brunt Morrison Dorrans etc are no better now than last season.
Is tactics a coaching skill? That's not happening
So if we lose to the Vile are we all agreed that its Taxi for Mr Irvine?
People need to get used to the fact he's not going anytime soon. I imagine we'll continue going along round about a point a game which is not bad enough to sack him and by all accounts the players seem to like him a lot.He'll go when we lose to Villa on Saturday. Peace isn't stupid enough to put a £60m at stake. Nor, I suspect, will he be comfortable with writing off his investments- Ideye, Gamboa, Blanco and Varela- as Irvine is in the process of doing.
You can point to RDM, Clarke and Mel but the fact remains the first two of those had a season behind them in the first place and had started the season with relatively stable conditions, and Mel didn't have the players onside so he was clearly never going to stay.
To sack a manager 4 months into their job would be very damning on everyone involved in the process and make a real sham of the apparent diligence put into appointments. They used McDonough as a scapegoat for the Mel appointment but with Burton here, well this ones going to the bitter end.
The only way Irvine's getting sacked is if we either get cut completely adrift (which is pretty unlikely to happen), or we get relegated. Having finished 17th last season with 36 points, they'll point out that staying up will be a success story for this season.
He'll go when we lose to Villa on Saturday. Peace isn't stupid enough to put a £60m at stake. Nor, I suspect, will he be comfortable with writing off his investments- Ideye, Gamboa, Blanco and Varela- as Irvine is in the process of doing.
I really can't see it, sack him and get who? I'm sure he's well aware of the trouble the club has in getting managers. It's all well and good saying "anyones better" but Downing I would say would be by far and away the favourite if we got rid of Irvine.What performances are these , we've barely seen him and unfair to judge him on a few minutes now and then.
The fact remains the club entrenched its footballing structure over the summer, appointing Burton, Irvine is as far removed from a traditional manager in his role as your likely to get, Mervyn Day came in to recruitment, Downing and Kiely remained integral to the staff. It's all well and good saying this should change, but it won't, the club for whatever reason views this as the way to go. Consider that we couldn't find anyone in the summer and had to come begging to Irvine for the job, getting a new head coach will take an extrmely long time. The club won't want to go through the farce of the busiest time of the season without a head coach again.
Those players aren't really much in the way of investments either, Blanco and Gamboa were what? 2m? That's nothing in the premier league these days. Even for a club like us. Varela's a loan. Brown's the only significant expense there, and even then he's been kept out the team by a guy who was in the last England squad and a striker we paid 6m for last season. He's also looked absolutely shocking in virtually every performance so far.
Irvine honestly reminds me of one of my old Sunday League managers who never really knew what he was doing and clearly wasn't all that knowledgeable about football. Except I genuinely believe he was slightly less incompetent.
Tactically, Downing was even worse during the games he took caretaker charge of last year. Playing Gera at wing-back with Amalfitano behind the striker is particularly memorable.
Amazing to think they're coaching a Premier League team worth in excess of £60m. Then there's Dean Kiely who, going off his Twitter account, struggles to string a coherent sentence together.
Virtually every minute he's been on the pitch....same justification as starting wisdom who's poor, double standards by Irvine, he's always looking for an excuse not play certain players.
It's getting a bit ridiculous to criticise Irvine for not starting him, when he's brief performances have been so bad. Berahino stated the season on fire and Anichebe does at least do something on occassion. Brown looks well out his depth. If he can't control the ball, or do, well anything in the brief minutes he's getting on the pitch, what exactly is the justification for starting him? Getting marked out the game by Bournemouth's 18 year old debutant and whoever Oxford had at centre back hardly demanded his place in the side.
You don't pick the team based on price tags. If he's not doing better than Berahino or Anichebe in matches (he hasn't) or in training (who know's), then what exactly is the justification for starting him?
same justification as starting wisdom who's poor, double standards by Irvine, he's always looking for an excuse not play certain players.If Wisdom is so poor (which he actually isn't) it may say something about his back up?
If Wisdom is so poor (which he actually isn't) it may say something about his back up?
My personal opinion of Wisdom is that he'd make a fantastic centre back. Centre back. Centre back.
My personal opinion of Wisdom is that he'd make a fantastic centre back. Centre back. Centre back.
Centre back is his prefered role. Think it shows as when hes defending at RB hes pretty solid, just seems a bit 'clueless' when going forward.
Thats nothing against Wisdom as I said, he is a centre back. I still believe a right side of him and Gamboa infront of him would work very well but thats for a different topic.
Slightly off topic but I agree with these sentiments regarding the local press. The Mail’s replacements have been poor, it seems unclear whether Dick and Howell are just temporary replacements or if they are now indeed the permanent Albion reporters, but neither seems to have a thorough understanding of the club. Howell’s articles seem to simply revolve around “5 things we learnt†and there also seems to be far too many articles based on fans tweets. Dick at times seems to be completely out of whack with what is happening on the pitch, he awarded Mulumbu a MOM a month or so ago in a game in which he was very poor in. I think he traditionally specialises in rugby reporting rather than football.
I also think Madeley has gone off the boil at the E&S since CL has departed, I think he is quite an under rated journo on this patch but it seems CL’s presence was keeping him on his toes somewhat and now that he has departed Madeley's own reporting and interaction with supporters has declined.
Still don't see this amazing defensive side to him, got absolutely skinned by Santi Corzola.Me neither, he is so slow and laboured at times and gets caught ball watching too often.
Me neither, he is so slow and laboured at times and gets caught ball watching too often.
Wisdom is absolutely terrible. I honestly think the only reason Irvine doesn't play Gamboa over him is because he'll get forward which obviously makes us slightly more vulnerable defensively (though if we played Mulumbu and Yacob as defensive midfielders then one could shift across to cover). Its a real shame, because Gamboa is actually our player whereas Wisdom wont be here next season.Agree with all of this.
I also really don't buy the idea that these players are apparently so awful in training and that's why they don't play on match day. We've had that excuse before with Dorrans under Clarke. When Mel came in he ended the season brilliantly. Equally, Steve Madeley said he had sources describing Varela as "not good enough". This seems so unlikely given his pedigree and the fact he looked our best player when he came on against West Ham. It seems more likely to me that Irvine simply doesn't trust these players because they're not the predictable, domestic-based players that he can coach the creativity out of. Its such a shame because I honestly believe these players, if played, could make us into a really exciting attacking team (Blanco, Ideye, Gamboa, Varela). That's something we're obviously never going to see under the ultra cautious Irvine.
The reason I think he could well be sacked, along with Downing and Kiely is that Peace has recently shown a willing to make drastic changes if he deems them necessary, e.g by sacking Mel against the vast majority of fans wishes, bringing in Irvine despite knowing there'd be a fans backlash, and committing to the signing of eleven new players, while openly taking the blame for last season. I think if he sees the same thing happening this season, he won't delay reacting.
If Wisdom is so poor (which he actually isn't) it may say something about his back up?you mean the bloke who played all the world cup games for his country and looked awfull and clearly second best to wisdom. how will we know how good he is if he isn't given a game, wisdom was poor against west ham and should have been dropped giving gamboa a game at hull.
you mean the bloke who played all the world cup games for his country and looked awfull and clearly second best to wisdom. how will we know how good he is if he isn't given a game, wisdom was poor against west ham and should have been dropped giving gamboa a game at hull.
Quite right. Dawson was up and down against West Ham and he was taken out of the firing line.
Something in his loan conditions perhaps?
Quite right. Dawson was up and down against West Ham and he was taken out of the firing line.I'm sure I read somewhere that Liverpool have a standard condition with loans that the player has to appear in 75% of the games for which he is eligible, or a financial penalty has to be paid
Something in his loan conditions perhaps?
I'm sure I read somewhere that Liverpool have a standard condition with loans that the player has to appear in 75% of the games for which he is eligible, or a financial penalty has to be paid
You don't see them in training. They're not fit. In Alan we trust?I trust Alan Irvine, Keith Downing and Dean Kiely far more than I trust footballers with Champions League level pedigree.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11282684/Premier-League-managers-are-now-little-more-than-lightning-rods-for-owners-and-punchbags-for-fans.html
Interesting article, although no reference to Alan Irvine. No one cares outside the Midlands.
You think Irvine is doing a tremendous job; we get it. Some of us don't sadly.You don't know what I think of Irvine. You know what I think about some of our support and the treatment of our head coach. You also know that I will provide balance with evidence to some of the statements of fact that get put on here and point out the hypocrisy of some of the posters.
I'm sure I read somewhere that Liverpool have a standard condition with loans that the player has to appear in 75% of the games for which he is eligible, or a financial penalty has to be paidIt was probably on here. :-X
I think we should all lay off AI until saturday night and get behind the lads against the real enermy:
http://7500toholte.sbnation.com/2014/12/9/7361311/annoying-fans-and-stupid-name-why-i-hate-west-bromwich-albion?
12 games out of the 15 we have failed to score from open play bit of a disturbing stat hopefully we are saving ourselves for the villa game such a huge match this, Completely took over my mind this week with slight worry but also what a win would do for us and the team.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11282684/Premier-League-managers-are-now-little-more-than-lightning-rods-for-owners-and-punchbags-for-fans.html
Interesting article, although no reference to Alan Irvine. No one cares outside the Midlands.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11282684/Premier-League-managers-are-now-little-more-than-lightning-rods-for-owners-and-punchbags-for-fans.html
Interesting article, although no reference to Alan Irvine. No one cares outside the Midlands.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/12/11/west-brom-players-rally-round-alan-irvine/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/12/11/west-brom-players-rally-round-alan-irvine/)Interesting that if the players are so behind him and believe in his methods so much, we still can't get results? Suggests his methods aren't right.
West Brom players rally round boss Alan Irvine
West Brom’s players have rallied around under-fire boss Alan Irvine as he gears up for a make-or-break derby clash with Aston Villa.
Baggies captain Chris Brunt and summer signing Craig Gardner have joined the growing band of senior squad members to back Irvine, who is facing pressure for his job.
The Scot has been targeted for abuse from Albion fans in the last three matches and his side are winless in five attempts.
Gardner said: “The gaffer has been unbelievable for us. We are working so hard in training. He is there day and night.
"He is a proper man and we all want to do it for him. The way he conducts himself and the way training is – it’s brilliant.
"It’s just unfortunate that the luck just hasn’t quite gone our way in games. In time you will see how the team develop. He is such a good person.â€
Irvine’s future at the Hawthorns is in doubt after fans’ furious reaction to his appointment in the summer and a backlash against poor results of late.
They have won just three times in the league this season, but Brunt said: “Everyone will tell you they’re 100 per cent behind the manager. He’s a good coach, he leaves no stone unturned.
“We do everything right from Monday to Friday to prepare for the game at the weekend but over the last few weeks the performances on the pitch haven’t been good enough and we haven’t done our jobs properly.
“It must be difficult for the coaching staff to sit there and watch things fall apart sometimes, that’s down to us on the pitch as well.â€
“It’s always difficult to lose a few games and with the nature of the Premier League and the way football is at the minute, people start putting pressure on the coach.
"It’s not fair at all – we go out on a Saturday and haven’t been doing our jobs as well as we have been doing, which is why we’re down there.â€
Interesting that if the players are so behind him and believe in his methods so much, we still can't get results? Suggests his methods aren't right.
They love Downing too, doesn't mean a thing. If they love him so much start playing better.
They love Downing too, doesn't mean a thing. If they love him so much start playing better.Indeed. And if, hypothetically, we suppose that the players do actually like Irvine, and it isn't just what they've been told to say (which it probably is- they could hardly say they hate the manager), it's fair to assume that would only be because they know they're guaranteed a start under him. That's certainly not healthy either.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/12/11/west-brom-players-rally-round-alan-irvine/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/12/11/west-brom-players-rally-round-alan-irvine/)Personally, I'd prefer it if they just shut up about Irvine. Club propaganda isn't going to help calm these particular stormy waters and I'm disappointed that Messrs Swain and Lepkoswki are seemingly not old enough and/or wise enough to realise this.
West Brom players rally round boss Alan Irvine
Personally, I'd prefer it if they just shut up about Irvine. Club propaganda isn't going to help calm these particular stormy waters and I'm disappointed that Messrs Swain and Lepkoswki are seemingly not old enough and/or wise enough to realise this.I guess it's something to say - players are unlikely to come out with anything controversial or that interesting in these snippets we get daily. It's a bit like the daily backing of Alastair Cook by whichever England player happens to be doing the press conference that day.
Indeed. And if, hypothetically, we suppose that the players do actually like Irvine, and it isn't just what they've been told to say (which it probably is- they could hardly say they hate the manager), it's fair to assume that would only be because they know they're guaranteed a start under him. That's certainly not healthy either.Exactly.
Frankly, I'd rather they hated the manager but he had them playing attractive, winning football without having "favourites".
Exactly.
Lescott, Gardner, Brunt and Foster are the main supporters of Irvine, all of whom are guaranteed starters, it seems.
Mulumbu, Yacob, Ideye, Varela, Gamboa, Sessengon etc. may have a different view.
Two sides to every story.
If I had a shop and all my staff loved me and enjoyed coming into a fun time each day, but, sold feck all, I wouldn't have a shop long !
What world are these guys living in?
If the players are playing for him and working hard then we've got half a chance. We just need to get some wins now starting against Villa.Thats it what a fantastic chance and how massive would three points be especially against them lot will get hawthorns bouncing again.
Thats it what a fantastic chance and how massive would three points be especially against them lot will get hawthorns bouncing again.It would be a temporary distraction from the massive failings of Irvine's methods and our performances. 1 goal from open play in 8 games. 1 point out of 15 from our last 5 games.
the training must be as casual as the football they play on a match day. No wonder they love him. such an easy life 3 hours a day training 1-2 games per week 40k happy days
Interesting that if the players are so behind him and believe in his methods so much, we still can't get results? Suggests his methods aren't right.
It also suggests that the players he is picking are not good enough to carry out his instructions either. I don't really buy into the fact we have a great squad here. It has massive holes still.I think we have a squad that belies our position in the table. Unfortunately, many of our best players aren't being played (Varela, Ideye, Blanco, Gamboa), but the likes of Baird and Anichebe are instead.
A win against Villa on saturday with a good performance would buy AI alot more time in my opinion.
Lets see how we all feel at 5.30pm Saturday evening.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/12/11/west-brom-players-rally-round-alan-irvine/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/12/11/west-brom-players-rally-round-alan-irvine/)try doing everything right Monday - Saturday not Monday to Friday, and we may win a game now and then.
West Brom players rally round boss Alan Irvine
West Brom’s players have rallied around under-fire boss Alan Irvine as he gears up for a make-or-break derby clash with Aston Villa.
Baggies captain Chris Brunt and summer signing Craig Gardner have joined the growing band of senior squad members to back Irvine, who is facing pressure for his job.
The Scot has been targeted for abuse from Albion fans in the last three matches and his side are winless in five attempts.
Gardner said: “The gaffer has been unbelievable for us. We are working so hard in training. He is there day and night.
"He is a proper man and we all want to do it for him. The way he conducts himself and the way training is – it’s brilliant.
"It’s just unfortunate that the luck just hasn’t quite gone our way in games. In time you will see how the team develop. He is such a good person.â€
Irvine’s future at the Hawthorns is in doubt after fans’ furious reaction to his appointment in the summer and a backlash against poor results of late.
They have won just three times in the league this season, but Brunt said: “Everyone will tell you they’re 100 per cent behind the manager. He’s a good coach, he leaves no stone unturned.
“We do everything right from Monday to Friday to prepare for the game at the weekend but over the last few weeks the performances on the pitch haven’t been good enough and we haven’t done our jobs properly.
“It must be difficult for the coaching staff to sit there and watch things fall apart sometimes, that’s down to us on the pitch as well.â€
“It’s always difficult to lose a few games and with the nature of the Premier League and the way football is at the minute, people start putting pressure on the coach.
"It’s not fair at all – we go out on a Saturday and haven’t been doing our jobs as well as we have been doing, which is why we’re down there.â€
I saw Dean Keily shopping at the Bull Ring yesterday at around 12.00. Either an early finish or a day off.wednesday is usually a day off
wednesday is usually a day offI don't know about Wednesday off, a good old fashioned dose of being dragged in on a Sunday for extra training wouldn't go amiss
II don't know about Wednesday off, a good old fashioned dose of being dragged in on a Sunday for extra training wouldn't go amiss
We all like to muse of the 'clique' but does anyone have an real inside knowledge of whom is in this clique ? :o
I think we have a squad that belies our position in the table. Unfortunately, many of our best players aren't being played (Varela, Ideye, Blanco, Gamboa), but the likes of Baird and Anichebe are instead.how can you possibly say our best players aren't playing? How do you know they are our best player's have you seen them play more often than the rest of us or have you got inside information?
how can you possibly say our best players aren't playing? How do you know they are our best player's have you seen them play more often than the rest of us or have you got inside information?Firstly, I said MANY OF our our best players. I would include Lescott, Foster - and when on form - Mulumbu, Yacob, Sessegnon and Berahino in that too. I've based that on their pedigree and the occasions I've seen them play before they signed for us. It's up to you whether you trust me (I watch a lot of the foreign leagues), but in my opinion Varela, Ideye, Blanco and Gamboa are four of our most talented players. It's such a huge waste of talent and will be an absolute travesty and a massive shame if they continue not to play and leave this club without being given a fair chance.
how can you possibly say our best players aren't playing? How do you know they are our best player's have you seen them play more often than the rest of us or have you got inside information?
Regardless of my opinion of the quality of our football, and I have had the pleasure of watching the 3 degrees , nor my thoughts on Mr Irvine, I am starting to feel a little uneasy at the level of vitriol that is starting to surface. Its like seeing that kid in the playground who you know is the one everyone will pick on and then seeing the feeding frenzy of bullying start to build. Bottom line is he knows, JP knows and we know that more than ever it is a results and money driven business. He knew that when he took the job and he will accept it should he fail. Until then why not support our players and our club. What will be will be . Opinions are what forums are about so I accept everyone has a right to one. But lets at least be constructive and not just pick on the individual for the sake of it.
Firstly, I said MANY OF our our best players. I would include Lescott, Foster - and when on form - Mulumbu, Yacob, Sessegnon and Berahino in that too. I've based that on their pedigree and the occasions I've seen them play before they signed for us. It's up to you whether you trust me (I watch a lot of the foreign leagues), but in my opinion Varela, Ideye, Blanco and Gamboa are four of our most talented players. It's such a huge waste of talent and will be an absolute travesty and a massive shame if they continue not to play and leave this club without being given a fair chance.What channel do you find the Ukranian Premier League on?
Regardless of my opinion of the quality of our football, and I have had the pleasure of watching the 3 degrees , nor my thoughts on Mr Irvine, I am starting to feel a little uneasy at the level of vitriol that is starting to surface. Its like seeing that kid in the playground who you know is the one everyone will pick on and then seeing the feeding frenzy of bullying start to build. Bottom line is he knows, JP knows and we know that more than ever it is a results and money driven business. He knew that when he took the job and he will accept it should he fail. Until then why not support our players and our club. What will be will be . Opinions are what forums are about so I accept everyone has a right to one. But lets at least be constructive and not just pick on the individual for the sake of it.
What channel do you find the Ukranian Premier League on?Online. If you go back about ten pages or go through my post history I've had this exact same conversation with you or someone else.
I don't think people are picking on Irvine for the sake of it. There is a reason people are criticizing Irvine and that is to express a basic disagreement with his approach.
I said a few weeks ago that if Irvine doesn't go soon things will turn really ugly. People are fed up with rubbish football. This frustration will be expressed sooner or later, for now it is mostly expressed privately between fans and on forums like this one. But that will change soon.
As you say Irvine knew what he was taking on when he accepted the job. It is not his fault he plays negative football, it is simply the way he sees the game. But, Irvine's style of football is pretty much the last thing the fans want to see. There is obviously a huge conflict built into this situation. Fans cannot pretend to be enthusiastic when they have nothing to be enthusiastic about, this is the crux of the matter. Where is the pride in surviving in the Prem, playing rubbish football, just to keep the players and club in the money? Where is the deal for the fans?
Call me childish but the current survey/poll looks a bit funny :o
Heh, yeah I've been thinking the same thing for a long time... but then again I am childish :)
I don't think people are picking on Irvine for the sake of it. There is a reason people are criticizing Irvine and that is to express a basic disagreement with his approach.
I said a few weeks ago that if Irvine doesn't go soon things will turn really ugly. People are fed up with rubbish football. This frustration will be expressed sooner or later, for now it is mostly expressed privately between fans and on forums like this one. But that will change soon.
As you say Irvine knew what he was taking on when he accepted the job. It is not his fault he plays negative football, it is simply the way he sees the game. But, Irvine's style of football is pretty much the last thing the fans want to see. There is obviously a huge conflict built into this situation. Fans cannot pretend to be enthusiastic when they have nothing to be enthusiastic about, this is the crux of the matter. Where is the pride in surviving in the Prem, playing rubbish football, just to keep the players and club in the money? Where is the deal for the fans?
Fail to beat the vile tomorrow convincingly and hes got to go, same weekend another boring scot got the boot exactly one year ago.
Not sure about convincingly, a 1-0 will do me in the 90th minute. As long as we win he gets more time
I think we will draw tomorow in a very dull game.
Neither team look amazing at present, we look awful at times with no real threat or urgency, the vile at times dont look much better and a couple wins against Leicester and Palace doesnt change that.
Has all the makings for a very boring game, with us pressing them first half, they score around 40th minute, we spend 35 minutes of the 2nd half huffing and puffing before they break away down the Smethwick end to nick it 2-0.
A draw will keep Irvine in the job in my opinion.
So we either need to win and get a result against QPR and push on from there.
Or we lose and Irvine goes.
We can't keep plodding along picking up the odd point.
A draw would be the completely the wrong result for us in my opinion.
For arguements sake, if we draw tomorow, and draw against QPR, do you think he will still remain in charge?
For what it's worth, can't see JP sacking AI for a negative playing style. It's results he'll be judged on IMO.
This is the bottom line.
I have a season ticket I pay £450 for each year.
I have seen us win once (in the league) at home since 1st Jan. (The West Ham game, last season, is the only one I missed.)
If I'm not seeing us win and I'm not being entertained then what is the point? What joy or satisfaction (let alone value) do I get?
Something has to change. Send me home on Saturday with a big smile on my face!
If that's the case then he should have gone 3 or 4 games ago. :D
I think there are two reasons why Irvine hasn't gone yet.
One. JP put his neck on the line for Irvine and doesn't want to be seen as getting it wrong again. Especially after his statement in the summer.
Two. There is not a decent replacement out there that would want the job. People could argue Pulis but I suspect he would not be interested given our structure.
More goals would be good for everyone - even just more shots on goal would give hope. Stating the bleeding obvious, you can't win a game without goals and there is no goal threat or intent at the moment.
Unless this changes, starting with the Villa game, then Mr Irvine, however nice a bloke he is, is likely to be remembered as The Wally with the Watch.
If that's the case then he should have gone 3 or 4 games ago. :D
I think there are two reasons why Irvine hasn't gone yet.
One. JP put his neck on the line for Irvine and doesn't want to be seen as getting it wrong again. Especially after his statement in the summer.
Two. There is not a decent replacement out there that would want the job. People could argue Pulis but I suspect he would not be interested given our structure.
I would suggest JP didn't put his neck on the line for AI, but Terry Burton did, if you listen to JP's interviews he said he was giving his mangers an opportunity to manage, so he's supported TB's decision.
Today (when he could say something relevant to our form, position, team selection, how he's going to change things, how important a derby win would be, etc) AI has chosen to confirm that he does have the final say of transfers:
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-final-say-transfers-8277472 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-final-say-transfers-8277472)
I seem to think this is the opposite of what he was saying a few weeks ago, you know, when he was under pressure for not utilising the players in the squad.
I appreciate that this is probably just a response to one journalist's question, and is probably just part of a much bigger and wider discussion. It's just my cold, dark, cynical heart speaking out of complete and utter frustration.
Don't be fooled by this "shots on target" metric. Most teams, even the top 4 have single figure shots on goal. The metric for me that measures how well a team is playing & getting to the final third is "shots". You can the compare your "shots" to "shots on target" to see how effective you are. Last time I looked we averaged 10 shots per game, but only 2 on target, which suggests to me we're getting into shooting positions, but not shooting very well
The comments there are a direct contradiction of what he said just days ago. He has also made a point of saying that he didn't see Ideye play before we signed him.
He isn't consistent with his message, and he seemingly struggles to remember what he's said before. That's a sign of somebody who is out of their depth in the position.
In that case its a massive miscalculation by JP to allow someone who had been at the club for 2 or 3 weeks to make a decision that defines our future. Especially when AI was 'headhunted' - i.e. we went through all the people that applied and decided that someone who hadn't applied was the most suitable out of everyone you could pick to headhunt. I'd have to say its incredible (and I mean far-fetched, implausible, improbable) that TB would single handedly pick AI (having not worked with him before) to headhunt for that position. Then allow another department under his control to recruit players that AI just doesn't seem to be interested in.
I have no idea what really happened, but I would guess that JP suggested and sponsored AI, and TB went with it.
Today (when he could say something relevant to our form, position, team selection, how he's going to change things, how important a derby win would be, etc) AI has chosen to confirm that he does have the final say of transfers:
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-final-say-transfers-8277472 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-final-say-transfers-8277472)
I seem to think this is the opposite of what he was saying a few weeks ago, you know, when he was under pressure for not utilising the players in the squad.
I appreciate that this is probably just a response to one journalist's question, and is probably just part of a much bigger and wider discussion. It's just my cold, dark, cynical heart speaking out of complete and utter frustration.
Cyn,I think you'll find he was here for most/all of them.
I think what he said a few weeks ago, that he didn't have a lot of input into the summer signings, & why would he, he wasn't here.
Cyn,
I've just read the article & he says he will have a say, I think what he said a few weeks ago, that he didn't have a lot of input into the summer signings, & why would he, he wasn't here.
I think you'll find he was here for most/all of them.
Then why, when asked about AI's appointment, did Terry Burton say (& I quote) "They wanted a coach"
I'm not really sure what you're asking.
If I was appointed in TB's position I'd want to know the strengths and weaknesses of all the other people around me before I had a profile for the person I wanted to appoint to that position. i.e. what is the difference between Irvine and Downing? I don't know the answer but there is little point of having 2 people that are the similar with similar skill sets, especially if you're then going to add Rob Kelly to the matching set.
I'd also want to look at what sort of people who had and hadn't worked in that position before and understand why.
As a new arrival in a new position, appointing the key person in the organisation I'd want to ensure the best, most relevant person is bought into the position.
If I was then told to limit my list to coaches only (first I'd be furious as it would leave me totally hamstrung, then) I'd want to bring in the best person available to suit that role.
At no point would I have thought that there's only one person for the job, the Everton youth team coach would be the ideal person, I'll go and headhunt them. (Especially if I'd never worked with them before.)
If I really wanted a coach - i.e. not a manager - I'd have been headhunting the likes of Paul Clement (or some experienced, successful - English speaking - European coach used to working in the system) and not someone who is way past their peak of keeping Preston in the championship.
It just doesn't add up.
He was here for every player after Ideye, who if I remember correctly AI was shown clips of him when the deal was close to being done?I've posted somewhere else that Irvine was appointed on June 14th, whilst Brown Ideye was signed on July 18th, so you would have thought there was time for Irvine to watch some videos of him and provide input based on them.
Every player that arrived after Ideye, AI was here for.
Much to his disappointment, Burton will not be at the Arsenal game to enjoy a reunion with Wenger. With the transfer window opening soon, there is a need to watch matches, although January will be nothing like the summer. “There was no head coach, 13 outfield players and no head of recruitment. So I wasn’t walking into a setup which was ready made and you have a bit of time to sit back. It was very much like a 100-yard sprint – get your head down and go.â€
Filling the head coach vacancy was the priority and Burton was guided by the club in terms of the profile of that position. “I think Roy Hodgson was the one that most people at the club, from maybe chairman through to the players, looked at and thought that’s what West Brom need. Roy was out there every day, he led the gameplan, the strategy of how he wanted his team to play, taking 90% of the sessions. My period when I worked here before [in 2011-2012], I enjoyed it, but you were fighting to get the cones to put out!â€
Burton agrees that he was brave to put forward Irvine, but he maintains that it was the right choice. “He’s got a good football knowledge, he can coach the fundamentals of the game, he can coach team play, he can coach individuals, his football personality on the training ground is very, very good. He’s a leader. Was it a gamble for me? It was only a gamble because of the name. The processes [behind it], I knew, were right.â€
As for player recruitment, in the absence of live games other than the World Cup, there were long hours watching clips on Wyscout, lots of data analysis, guidance taken from the scouts already working at the club and far too many calls received from agents that have never been heard of since. “From where we are now and where we started then, the recruitment department looks entirely different, because the DNA of what we wanted from our players wasn’t set then,†Burton says. “That was part of that experience where you look back and go: ‘It would be far easier to do it now.’â€
One of the other challenges for Burton has been adapting to a role where he is not out on the training field – his home for the last four decades - every day. “I’ve come round to it now, and hopefully I’ve got things to offer,†he says. “No matter how enthusiastic you are, you have to give way to age. But it’s not going to stop me from thinking like a football man.â€
Lets not forget that JP is an accountant he understands numbers and possibly not people, if when interviewed AI (who we know does lots of preparation) had pushed JP's buttons with stats and risk management, it wouldn't be at all surprising that JP would like what he heard and react accordingly.I think you may have over simplified things. JP has arguably been a successful chairman of a football club for 12 years now and a successful businessman before that. You do not become that without having some people skills.
If I were JP the accountant i would want to hear (adopts nasal tone) Well jeremy, my analysis of games in the premier league during the period 200-2014, shows that x percentage of points are secured at home on a saturday between 3:00 & 5:00pm, wheras y percentage are won on a sunday ........................ Therefore the risk factor involved in playing on a sunday is ........
Not eh, i like that laddie he's gorra wand of a left foot you know and i can get him for £12m and a bung to his agent, whtdya think Jezza.
Badly explained, but hopefully you get my drift. JP & AI are made for each other. (sadly)
The comments there are a direct contradiction of what he said just days ago. He has also made a point of saying that he didn't see Ideye play before we signed him.Or a sign of people quoting out of context? And does it really matter what he says as people seem to choose to ignore or disagree with whatever he says. Whatever he says has to be measured anyway?
He isn't consistent with his message, and he seemingly struggles to remember what he's said before. That's a sign of somebody who is out of their depth in the position.
From the horses mouth...........
Read More http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/27/terry-burton-arsenal- (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/27/terry-burton-arsenal-)
Terry burton talks of don Howe being the man . He was a great full back for us but has a manager it was defensive tripe . Very much like we have now . Playing DEFENSIVE is not the baggies way .
Terry burton talks of don Howe being the man . He was a great full back for us but has a manager it was defensive tripe . Very much like we have now . Playing DEFENSIVE is not the baggies way .
It doesn't bother me what kind of profile our head coach has before he comes. I always expect rough patches during the season. BUT I expect to be entertained. We've seen one game all season where we've been entertaining, that was against Burnley. ALL of our other matches have been just so boring that I've turned off the TV.
Results entertain you so you can accept boring performances while getting some results.
Alan Irvine seems uncapable of both of those things, and thats why I want him gone.
I'd rather be relegated playing Mowbray/Mel kind of football than be 17th watching this type of whatever this is football.
But before you Mr. Irvine use Gamboa, its 2014 not 1990, fullbacks need to be capable to attack, Wisdom is a centre back and offers nothing going forward... Where is Blanco, have some balls when Dorrans and Morrison have a run of poor games and just put the new lad in for more than 10 minutes when we've already lost the game! Why can't you start with both Ideye and Berahino, I'm sick of "Big" Vic who can't beat the smallest person in the air, and he always looks like he doesn't want to be on the pitch.
Go forward, at least get the sack with some grace. This is even worse than Mcleish with the Villians.
That's the result that'll relegate us, you mark my words.I'm convinced of this too.
Irvine is now safe until jan (can't see JP getting someone in during the transfer window).
We need to be safe before our run in and cannot see that happening.
Irvine is taking us down and a 1-0 result against a poor villa team won't change that.
He's got to go now!
Great result but doesn't change anything for me.
I just want to add that I never want albion to lose, especially when it comes to the villa.
I was just pointing out the fact that this result (while enjoyable) probably means Irvine is in charge until feb and for me that means we are down unless something radically changes in him.
Happy to be proved wrong of course
Fair play to him for todays win and half decent performance , lets see who he plays at QPR and if we attack more than at Hull .Varela might be his key ....
Fair play to him for todays win and half decent performance , lets see who he plays at QPR and if we attack more than at Hull .Varela might be his key ....
Agree Dex.
Fans have been moaning suggesting they wanted a more forward thinking attacking side.
Today we got that.
What ever this guy does, I still want him out of the club. I cannot stand him and never will. I'm disgusted that he is now on the list of Albion managers/coaches and is part of our history. I don't care which players rate him, I want him to fail and I want him gone.Should we call this Irvinophobia?
I'm glad we beat Villa, but unfortunately it has saved him for a few more weeks.
The good news is, when this guy is sacked, who ever replaces him will seem like Corberan.
Should we call this Irvinophobia?
The irrational hatred of Alan Irvine, to get to the point of being completely irredeemable in your eyes before he even started and then for basically doing an average/slightly below average job & without knowing him to have a personal grudge is what I'd call irrational.
Do I think he's doing great and is perfect? no, do I think he's the footballing Antichrist? hell no. he has his pro's and he has his cons but he's just a dude trying to do a job.. in terms of where we currentl are and in our little group of teams, our goals for is average, our goals conceded is average and his win rate is one game short of the average 31 percent (currently 25%). I saw on another forum that despite us apparently not being able to NOT concede two goals every game, we are only behind Chelsea and Southampton in terms of clean sheets.
Like I say, there's pros and cons. but I don't think I could ever get to the level of vitriol you seem to possess about pretty much anyone I don't know..
I'm pleased we beat Villa. However, Irvine constantly picks the wrong team. He contrives to make us worse than what we should be relative to the quality in the squad. Dawson instead of McAuley? Mulumbu not selected. Anichebe picked. Brunt instead of Varela? Going into matches looking to draw instead of imposing our game on the opposition. We battered West Ham yet they've got 38 pts do I font think the league is of a high quality. We should be achieving more.
I have resisted posting thus far but I am fed up of this stick for Alan Irvine. The football is turgid/dull/boring - call it what you like but I can't help but like this guy. He genuinely cares, you only have to look at his reaction when we scored today.
He was naive early doors, not being pro-active enough with his substitutions but in recent weeks I believe this has changed.We have seen attacking subs aplenty with Varela and Brown both getting game time as the fans have asked for! (Maybe they weren't actually fit and in this league we can't afford to carry anybody who is 70-80% fit except maybe Lescott. The margins really are that small).
Credit where it is due. We have now kept 6 clean sheets this season which is the joint 2nd highest. We are never going to have the attacking talent of Chelsea whilst having a rock solid defence so the midfield have to do much more defensive work but if we don't concede goals we always have a chance of winning games.
So I looked at the fixtures before the West Ham game and wanted 5 points and I firmly believe we will get something next week. Everybody keeps harping on about our run-in, am I the only one not scared? Our record against the top sides really isn't too shabby.
Let's all get behind him and give him a chance. I really believe he is learning every game and with him at the helm we will be a Premier League club next season.
Boing Boing!
I have resisted posting thus far but I am fed up of this stick for Alan Irvine. The football is turgid/dull/boring - call it what you like but I can't help but like this guy. He genuinely cares, you only have to look at his reaction when we scored today.
He was naive early doors, not being pro-active enough with his substitutions but in recent weeks I believe this has changed.We have seen attacking subs aplenty with Varela and Brown both getting game time as the fans have asked for! (Maybe they weren't actually fit and in this league we can't afford to carry anybody who is 70-80% fit except maybe Lescott. The margins really are that small).
Credit where it is due. We have now kept 6 clean sheets this season which is the joint 2nd highest. We are never going to have the attacking talent of Chelsea whilst having a rock solid defence so the midfield have to do much more defensive work but if we don't concede goals we always have a chance of winning games.
So I looked at the fixtures before the West Ham game and wanted 5 points and I firmly believe we will get something next week. Everybody keeps harping on about our run-in, am I the only one not scared? Our record against the top sides really isn't too shabby.
Let's all get behind him and give him a chance. I really believe he is learning every game and with him at the helm we will be a Premier League club next season.
Boing Boing!
Typo I meant 28 not 38. My point is we are underachieving. I think Al is at a cross roads prior to the game at QPR. Is he going to give Varela and Brown a run (possibly from bench in BI's case) or revert back to the clique of Brunt and Anichebe? U wouldn't put Dawson back in over G mac after 2 clean sheets, so why on earth should Brunt and Anichebe be selected? If he goes down this path I can see another winless streak of at least 5 games.
naughty word me, they're doing well.
I'm not sure you've got that right my friend, Maybe deduct ten points or so. ;)
I assume anyone who hates Irvine hated Clarke more? Less points by this time last season.
I have resisted posting thus far but I am fed up of this stick for Alan Irvine. The football is turgid/dull/boring - call it what you like but I can't help but like this guy. He genuinely cares, you only have to look at his reaction when we scored today.. Good point well made . Look at Brown new club ,new country , away from his family. Now settled and starting to show form in training . Varela getting fitness back after operation so yes perhaps Irvine was right not to select can't say negative selections for the Vile game
He was naive early doors, not being pro-active enough with his substitutions but in recent weeks I believe this has changed.We have seen attacking subs aplenty with Varela and Brown both getting game time as the fans have asked for! (Maybe they weren't actually fit and in this league we can't afford to carry anybody who is 70-80% fit except maybe Lescott. The margins really are that small).
Credit where it is due. We have now kept 6 clean sheets this season which is the joint 2nd highest. We are never going to have the attacking talent of Chelsea whilst having a rock solid defence so the midfield have to do much more defensive work but if we don't concede goals we always have a chance of winning games.
So I looked at the fixtures before the West Ham game and wanted 5 points and I firmly believe we will get something next week. Everybody keeps harping on about our run-in, am I the only one not scared? Our record against the top sides really isn't too shabby.
Let's all get behind him and give him a chance. I really believe he is learning every game and with him at the helm we will be a Premier League club next season.
Boing Boing!
Should we call this Irvinophobia?
The irrational hatred of Alan Irvine, to get to the point of being completely irredeemable in your eyes before he even started and then for basically doing an average/slightly below average job & without knowing him to have a personal grudge is what I'd call irrational.
Do I think he's doing great and is perfect? no, do I think he's the footballing Antichrist? hell no. he has his pro's and he has his cons but he's just a dude trying to do a job.. in terms of where we currentl are and in our little group of teams, our goals for is average, our goals conceded is average and his win rate is one game short of the average 31 percent (currently 25%). I saw on another forum that despite us apparently not being able to NOT concede two goals every game, we are only behind Chelsea and Southampton in terms of clean sheets.
Like I say, there's pros and cons. but I don't think I could ever get to the level of vitriol you seem to possess about pretty much anyone I don't know..
I assume anyone who hates Irvine hated Clarke more? Less points by this time last season.
Now settled and starting to show form in training
I hate neither, but I wasn't happy at all with Clarke's "football" and he had to go that was very obvious. Irvine still has a chance to grow but time is running out for him because if he doesn't build the buffer of points soon we will be right in it come the end of May. At least AI tried, forced by circumstances or not, to field a more positive team against Villa. However it wasn't exactly pretty and I doubt we would have won hadn't Richardson been sent off. We still only have two wins at home Villa and Burnley.And win all three and he will get manager of the month.
We have QPR (a), City (h) and Stoke (a) next. Lose those three and we are back at the sack Irvine square, however, with the squad we have QPR and Stoke are winnable games. Irvine is more comfortable away, where his ultra negative approach is more appropriate, so QPR and Stoke are now crucial games.
I have resisted posting thus far but I am fed up of this stick for Alan Irvine. The football is turgid/dull/boring - call it what you like but I can't help but like this guy. He genuinely cares, you only have to look at his reaction when we scored today.
He was naive early doors, not being pro-active enough with his substitutions but in recent weeks I believe this has changed.We have seen attacking subs aplenty with Varela and Brown both getting game time as the fans have asked for! (Maybe they weren't actually fit and in this league we can't afford to carry anybody who is 70-80% fit except maybe Lescott. The margins really are that small).
Credit where it is due. We have now kept 6 clean sheets this season which is the joint 2nd highest. We are never going to have the attacking talent of Chelsea whilst having a rock solid defence so the midfield have to do much more defensive work but if we don't concede goals we always have a chance of winning games.
So I looked at the fixtures before the West Ham game and wanted 5 points and I firmly believe we will get something next week. Everybody keeps harping on about our run-in, am I the only one not scared? Our record against the top sides really isn't too shabby.
Let's all get behind him and give him a chance. I really believe he is learning every game and with him at the helm we will be a Premier League club next season.
Boing Boing!
when asked about his tactics by one reporter Keith Downing was heard to say that he preferred polo mints, to which Irvine was heard to say in the background that he was a trebor man himself, to be serious i think the whole coaching staff should be cleared out, even allowing for the fact that surprisingly we are only behind Chelsea and Southampton for clean sheets kept, and we have not been tanked by anyone , but we must give ourselves a chance to win and tactically we do not do that, i think the right coach will harness the positives of the squad, play further up the pitch and give the opposition more to think about at their end of the pitch.
this squad of players in my opinion are as good as if not better of half of the sides in the league, what they need is the opportunity to prove it
..., play further up the pitch and give the opposition more to think about at their end of the pitch...I thought that was what Mel wanted to do but the players didn't.
Has yesterday changed my opinion on Irvine? no, on the contrary I feel even more so that he is the wrong man for the job. We played a POOR 10 man Vile team and scrapped a victory. Should have taken them to the cleaners after the sending off.
Noticed this interesting statistic last night:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10846487_825383100836335_8643177031445531967_n.jpg?oh=a40d010f4a908ebcfa42528ded95cc64&oe=5508446E&__gda__=1430138290_f614763ad2c8ec13fd1504bb753bd5ed)
What is our record in terms of clean sheets in the premier League?
What is our record in terms of clean sheets in the premier League?
Set pieces have been poor for a number of years to be fair.
Set pieces have been poor for a number of years to be fair.
Bring back Neil Clement.
The win doesnt change my opinion, but I am glad we got the win.
I still think not much has changed. Credit to Irvine for picking a more 'attacking' team, will be interesting to see who Brunt replaces (my guess is Dorrans).
We got the 3 points on saturday which were vital for us, but lets not kid ourselves, we played against a poor villa team who had 10 men for 70 minutes, I know its easy to EXPECT to beat 10 men, but we should still be piling on abit more pressure. (Villa could have knicked a point near the end).
Irvine has brought himself some time with the board, I still dont think hes the right man, but like before I will wont throw abuse his way at a game as I dont think thats the correct way to go about things.
Lets see how we play against QPR.
Spot on, failure to get anything from the QPR game and we're back to sqaure one.He picked Varela (MoM?) and Ideye on Saturday which most of us have been hoping for, so he has to have credit for that. Personally I would prefer to see Gamboa in for Wisdom than Ideye in for Berahino, but it is a sign that he is relaxing the shackles.
Still want him gone myself. He needs to instill more belief into the players and needs to go for the throat of opponents. Sitting on a 1-0 at home doesn't quite cut it for me, and when we sat back it got abit too cagey for my liking.
Thought we were lucky to win yesterday.A rolling contract is just that - it rolls on. If AI wants to leave he has to give 12 months notice - similar to Ally McCoist's present situation at Rangers - and if WBA want a change then they have to give notice and continue to pay him for 12 months. There is no 'renewal' involved.
Two very poor teams, and the sending off helped us. The football under AI is still very poor. IF we stay up (big IF) I'd hope the rolling contract wouldn't be renewed so that we can bring in somebody to actually improve us.
picked a team to save his job and it worked, now he as to prove it wasn't a one off pick, at least we looked like we wanted to attack on Saturday which is a start, Varela was decent (makes you wonder why he hasn't been involved) and if we get something at APPY HARRY'S mob things will be looking okish
A rolling contract is just that - it rolls on. If AI wants to leave he has to give 12 months notice - similar to Ally McCoist's present situation at Rangers - and if WBA want a change then they have to give notice and continue to pay him for 12 months. There is no 'renewal' involved.
Anyway give the guy time, after going through so many Head Coaches/Managers in recent years Albion need stability in this area. He was given a bad hand - with the exception of JL he inherited several unfit/dud signings and others must take the responsibility for that.
can you imagine if he takes us down and is still here next season playing handbreak on football in the championship.What a wonderful thought
I know what you're saying, but, (its a big but admittedly) what if he has been working on the defensive attributes and now with 2 shut-outs behind him he is starting to work more on the offensive side (as Roy did).
It supposedly the tried and tested methodology. personally i hope he can turn it around because its good for the club and therefore the fans.
I agree that history suggests its unlikely, but lets hope that he's learnt from earlier errors.Lets just wait and see. The past is the past. He finds himself in different circumstances. Maybe, just maybe, he's still learning.
You put far too much emphasis in what you hear from previous club supporters. Perhaps you need to put a little bit of trust and faith in your own club and make your own mind up? (As has previously been pointed out, Preston fans protested when he was sacked and his win ratio at Sheff Wed was better than the previous 9 managers going back 15 years, so a pinch of salt might be needed with their comments)
yes but what i hear from his previous clubs supporters the brand is very similar.My worry is he will always be to cautious which means we get a brand thats never going to be easy on the eye.
Season ticket sales next season i am sure will tumble
Lets just wait and see. The past is the past. He finds himself in different circumstances. Maybe, just maybe, he's still learning.
I am firmly in the "never in a million years do we want this guy" camp but having said that, I will be the first to point out that from the kick-off after our goal against The Vile the other day, he was trying to drive us forward by urging Poco I think it was ( or it may have been the whole back 4 ) to push up..........and that was right from their kick-off. I don't think the last 10 minutes against Villa and the way we sat deep and allowed them back into the game was down to Irvine, quite the opposite in fact judging by his actions and gesticulations from the touchline. So that period of play and the way we invited pressure from them can only be down to the players and not Irvine ( in that instance anyway ) so give the bloke some due from Saturday...............at least this once
Somethings going on.What was he after we won Saturday ? Seems Rodgers price has gone up and pearsons gone out to I think that's silly money to think Irvine be next sacked that win has bought him at least until hull at home on the 10th Jan unless like you say something's happened.
http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/next-manager-to-leave-post
I detect a certain amount of frustration on the part of the Irvine lynching posse.
Savour the victory.
Life is too short to constantly criticise and nit pick.
Somethings going on.Irvine not liked by fans and Adkins available. lots of 2+2= fish stuff in football odds.
http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/next-manager-to-leave-post
Someone yesterday also pointed that out that Irvine was encouraging his players to get further up field in the last 10. It may be more a case of player confidence and just sitting back to try and defend a win.
Im still not entirerly convinced by AI, and I think had villa had 11 men saturday it might not have ended with a wba win, however I support WBA and have to back the team to win, at the end of the day, if AI is doing well it means WBA are doing well.
Lets see what team is picked on saturday.
It has to be a confidence issue for the players. As soon as we went a goal ahead every time I looked over at Irvine he was urging the players to push further up the pitch but they continued to drop back. They were as desperate to get a win out of that game as the fans were from what I could see but once those players are on the pitch there isn't as much influence a manager can have as you would expect, you need natural leaders on the pitch and we have lacked that at times.
I'm not convinced by him either, he may be a great coach but I'm not so sure about his man management and tactical nous. One thing I will say is that he has earned a little extra time with me now he is finally picking Varela and giving Ideye a game but he is on a knife edge. The nature of the league doesn't help, a couple of wins on the bounce and you are top 10 but lose a couple on the bounce and you are right in the relegation mire again.
He will never change. I still want him goneTo be fair though, he has changed over the past two games, and even though I'm still not a fan; you cannot deny that. At Hull he threw on a natural winger (Varela) and ended up with 2 strikers up front, and even against West Ham he had 4 on at the end, this week he also spoke about using Varela more, which is promising.
We were stagnating under Clarke with his 70 minutes of defending and 20 minutes of trying to save the gameas opposed to winning it. We generally play better football now although it's with the wrong players.
That sounds like someone else ::)
Very similar but maybe just maybe (and I am not a fan) Irvine may be waking up to smell the coffee and realise who is best players are. In my opinion he needs to drop Dorrans and put Gamboa in for more speed down the right hand side and we could cause problems for whoever we play.
We were stagnating under Clarke with his 70 minutes of defending and 20 minutes of trying to save the gameas opposed to winning it. We generally play better football now although it's with the wrong players.the football we play now is the worst since don howe was in charge
the football we play now is the worst since don howe was in chargeBrian Little, Denis Smith, Alan Buckley etc etc need I say anymore.
I really want to get behind this bloke but it seems one step forwards, one back.
You can play in the team if you take people on Did he have this conversation with Chris Brunt ? I cannot remember the last time I saw Brunty take someone on FFS!
In terms of "out of context", that may well be true, i have only seen the extract quoted on here. In itself its a poor comment, but I agree I should read the transcript of the whole conversation before drawing conclusionsIf you get the opportunity, looking up leading questions, yes prime minister, on you tube. Bit dated but brilliant.
If you get the opportunity, looking up leading questions, yes prime minister, on you tube. Bit dated but brilliant.
Irvine on Varela:Why not get off the manager's back and why is everyone screaming on about Varela, has he not had a hernia operation ? It would take some time to get fit for premiership football after that and the 'confidence' thing comes into its correct context.
"We’ve had a few chats lately and it’s been all about that. You can play in the team if you take people on, the minute you lose that bit of confidence or that bit of courage that bit of self belief then somebody else goes in because they’ll do the other jobs better than you."
???
Some man-manager...
Irvine on Varela:Depends how you interpret it....could be read as 'don't be afraid to take people on as that's what I want you to do'.
"We’ve had a few chats lately and it’s been all about that. You can play in the team if you take people on, the minute you lose that bit of confidence or that bit of courage that bit of self belief then somebody else goes in because they’ll do the other jobs better than you."
???
Some man-manager...
Why do you pay so much attention to what he says in the media? It is only pretty much exactly the same statements that every manager puts out and is quite often taken out of context when used maliciously.
Personally, I hope he has one conversation in public and some very different conversations with players and staff in private.
from the OS, interesting to read the other perspectiveThis is the first such endorsement from someone who has not been in the first 11 and, for me, is the most telling.
Striker says Irvine never stops encouraging him,
ALAN Irvine’s hand is still stinging following a passionate Craig Gardner high-five, as the midfielder celebrated scoring the winner in last Saturday’s derby win over Villa.
And that same hand may still be in danger, with Brown Ideye stating that he would have done the same had he scored.
The Nigerian forward has endured a tricky start to life at The Hawthorns, not helped by an ankle injury sustained scoring his first goal for the club in the Capital One Cup victory over Hull City in September.
But Ideye has revealed that Albion’s Head Coach, who he regards as a father figure, never stops encouraging him.
“The manager is like a father to me - I tell him everything,†said The Baggies’ record signing.
“He is a nice person, and he is also very easy to work with.
“When Craig Gardner scored against Villa he ran over to him and gave him a high-five.
“If I’d have scored I would have done the same.
“He has always encouraged me and told me to keep working hard, even when I was injured.
“He doesn’t like to put pressure on his players because having played himself, he knows that when managers put pressure on players they are more likely to make a mistake.â€
Pressure however, is something that ‘Bobby’ may be forgiven for feeling at home.
The 26-year-old frequently faces post-match interrogation from his wife who is a keen football fan, and further questions from his young son.
“My wife is like one of managers,†said Ideye.
“She is a really keen football fan, and she knew lots about the game before we met and got married.
“She is always telling me how I performed and stuff like that after a match.
“My son also asks if I have scored after every game.
“My family want me to do well every time I play.â€
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/west-brom-wba-albion-brown-ideye-high-five-2152329.aspx#OXMwz07DitLV1I0g.99
from the OS, interesting to read the other perspective
Striker says Irvine never stops encouraging him,
ALAN Irvine’s hand is still stinging following a passionate Craig Gardner high-five, as the midfielder celebrated scoring the winner in last Saturday’s derby win over Villa.
And that same hand may still be in danger, with Brown Ideye stating that he would have done the same had he scored.
The Nigerian forward has endured a tricky start to life at The Hawthorns, not helped by an ankle injury sustained scoring his first goal for the club in the Capital One Cup victory over Hull City in September.
But Ideye has revealed that Albion’s Head Coach, who he regards as a father figure, never stops encouraging him.
“The manager is like a father to me - I tell him everything,†said The Baggies’ record signing.
“He is a nice person, and he is also very easy to work with.
“When Craig Gardner scored against Villa he ran over to him and gave him a high-five.
“If I’d have scored I would have done the same.
“He has always encouraged me and told me to keep working hard, even when I was injured.
“He doesn’t like to put pressure on his players because having played himself, he knows that when managers put pressure on players they are more likely to make a mistake.â€
Pressure however, is something that ‘Bobby’ may be forgiven for feeling at home.
The 26-year-old frequently faces post-match interrogation from his wife who is a keen football fan, and further questions from his young son.
“My wife is like one of managers,†said Ideye.
“She is a really keen football fan, and she knew lots about the game before we met and got married.
“She is always telling me how I performed and stuff like that after a match.
“My son also asks if I have scored after every game.
“My family want me to do well every time I play.â€
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/west-brom-wba-albion-brown-ideye-high-five-2152329.aspx#OXMwz07DitLV1I0g.99
This love in is fab. But I'd rather have three points every week.
He should be sacked with immediate effect
Irvine, Downing and Kiely all to be gone tonight. Very very annoyed about today and how we have threw it all away.Even if that's all I get for Christmas I'll be very, very pleased.
Also, the only positive that has been around recently has been the introduction of Varela and Sessegnon starting, which I have been calling for (as well as for Gamboa, Blanco and Ideye) for ages, and this decision was only ever made because Irvine was coerced into it by the fans.
Irvine is continuing to tick along with a result at just the right time such that he doesn't get sacked. With the end of the season that we have, we're sleepwalking to relegation.
Please Peace, I beg you, act now.
Irvine, Downing and Kiely all to be gone tonight. Very very annoyed about today and how we have threw it all away.
Ideye's been absolutely woeful. Berahino is 10 times the player. Ideye didn't even make the Kiev team last year or any of the Nigeria teams for a reason, he's not very good.Read my post again. I hadn't included him as a positive. I included him as something I've been calling for.
All 3 goals were conceded through corners(1st goal indirectly),is there any defending set-piece session in training ?????????????????I thought Irvine has a great attention to detail in training? So why are we conceding three goals from corners in a game?
Alan OUT
I can see the players trying for him , we played some good stuff today no doubt but i can't see where we go from here . Trouble is who do you get to replace him ?
said it a few weeks ago. Eddie Howe.Left Burnley for being home sick didn't he ?
said it a few weeks ago. Eddie Howe.He won't join us, he'd be on a hiding to nothing. He has money, fans and possible premier league with Bournemouth. Get them promoted and he's a Bournemouth legend, get us safe and he's just another Albion manager.
I can see the players trying for him , we played some good stuff today no doubt but i can't see where we go from here . Trouble is who do you get to replace him ?First, make it more attractive to prospective candidates by letting them bring in their own coaches and being prepared to pay compensation. A job in the Premier League is extremely attractive to almost all managers, so I don't buy the argument that there's no one to replace him (though that may be true domestically).
said it a few weeks ago. Eddie Howe.
We might have to think about a temporary manager paid on the remit to keep us up and review at the end of the season. Our selection process is so appalling that Peace needs to replace it root and branch in summer. I can't stand his football but might be worth offering Pulis a 6 month contract with that in mind. As others have said I couldn't see him wanting to come permanently.so how will Pulis improve on a manager who's got 6 clean sheets in 17 games? he improves defences true but he won't do all that much in this situation as surely the complaints are at the other end?
I love the suggestions for Tony Pulis I really do.
There's a whole host on here that have criticised Alan Irvine's sides for being boring etc.
And yet these supporters are championing the appointment of Pulis?
When did Pulis ever become the entertainer?
Win a game but play poorly "Irvine Out"
Lose a game but play well "Irvine Out"
Win a game and play well "Irvine lucky, other team poor"
Win a game but play poorly "Irvine Out, football too negative"
Lose a game but play well "Irvine Out, need to win games"
Win a game and play well "Irvine lucky, other team poor"
Win a game but play poorly "Irvine Out, football too negative"Yes, basically. No single result makes Irvine a good manager. All performances need to be considered in the context of his managerial record, as that's the most representative statistic. Because his managerial record isn't good enough, neither is he, and he should never have been entrusted with the job in the first place.
Lose a game but play well "Irvine Out, need to win games"
Win a game and play well "Irvine lucky, other team poor"
Is Irvine entertaining you then ?
I really don't know what to think. I'd like to see if other sides throw away as many GOOD leads as us.Exactly. It's the whole coaching environment that exists around the players. It's a) far too comfortable, and b) incompetent.
We are back in the days of dreading every corner we concede. Is it the players or the training!?
We have deeper problems, I'd say it all boils down to the set up. Hasn't worked since Ashworth left. Maybe we'd work with Irvine as a coach and an actual manager like Jol in. Be rid of The likes of Downing, Kiely and anybody else behind the scenes who isn't cutting it.
I don't see what difference that makes.
For the record - I think we've been boring for chunks of the season but I'm not the one moaning about the lack of entertainment and then championing the appointment of Pulis.
Both are boring, one is effective and one isn't. If I'm going to have the balls bored off me I would rather have the points too.
Albion fans spent years deriding Pulis and everything he stood for.I agree, although Pulis would keep us up (and it's debatable-to-unlikely whether that would be the case under Irvine), I don't see him as the answer. Realistically, we need to look abroad and look for an English-speaking manager with the appropriate qualities. If we are willing to pay compensation and let go of our current "coaches", they're definitely out there.
Regardless of whether he is effective or not, I'm not a hypocrite - I don't want him.
If people want to be hypocrites and champion Pulis then they can.
(not calling you a hypocrite btw!) :D
Albion fans spent years deriding Pulis and everything he stood for.Best post I have read regarding Pulis and it's true.
Regardless of whether he is effective or not, I'm not a hypocrite - I don't want him.
If people want to be hypocrites and champion Pulis then they can.
(not calling you a hypocrite btw!) :D
I agree, although Pulis would keep us up (and it's debatable to unlikely that that would be the case under Irvine), I don't see him as the answer. Realistically, we need to look abroad and look for an English-speaking manager with the appropriate qualities. If we are willing to pay compensation and let go of our current "coaches", they're definitely out there.
He also spent what must have been near 40 or 50 million at Stoke.I'm agreeing that Pulis isn't the answer? I don't want him
After each summer their style of football got progressively worse.
He walked out on Palace because their chairman wouldn't allow him an open cheque book.
Why would it be any different here?
Fulham looked abroad with a manager who had a great CV and he ended up being a disaster. Be careful what you wish for.Yeah, but if Fulham's (mad) chairman had done his research on Magath he'd have known that he was a long way from being suitable
I'm agreeing that Pulis isn't the answer? I don't want him
Albion fans spent years deriding Pulis and everything he stood for.
Regardless of whether he is effective or not, I'm not a hypocrite - I don't want him.
If people want to be hypocrites and champion Pulis then they can.
(not calling you a hypocrite btw!) :D
My question was a general question - not one aimed at you.That has my support :)
I was just strengthening our argument that we don't want Pulis. ;D
Yeah, but if Fulham's (mad) chairman had done his research on Magath he'd have known that he was a long way from being suitableDue diligence. It's the future.
I would not want Pulis, however more to the point he would not join anyway.Which is exactly why Peace needs to review the current policy of retaining Downing and Kiely totally regardless of performance and his unwillingness to pay compensation.
The list of people who would join is very small, hence why we are where we are with Irvine.
Folks he's staying. That I do believe . Let's just hope we see a good game in the championship. Maybe downing is the problem, we couldn't defend corners thenBased upon what?
Due diligence. It's the future.
Due diligence. It's the future.Due diligence is important. Unfortunately, our chairman's interpretation of due diligence is to spend 6 weeks interviewing candidates for whom a basic check of their record would tell you they are nowhere near up to a Premier League job.
Based upon what?
Good, just checking it wasn't based on inside information.
I can't honestly se JP doing what most of us want. Can you?
When do we sack ,we won't win against city and unlikely get results against Stoke (see record) and west ham. Maybe after a humiliating cup exit
so how will Pulis improve on a manager who's got 6 clean sheets in 17 games? he improves defences true but he won't do all that much in this situation as surely the complaints are at the other end?
Has he been interviewed about the game yet :-X
Yes - Austin is a quality player whom we kept quite apart from his penalty and two goals from open play.
He's never said that surely?!Depends on what you want to hear. :-[
Has he been interviewed about the game yet :-Xstill looking at his watch but will interviewed soon.
Alan Irvine After Match CommentsI fully agree with all he says , is it one defeat too many though ?
"We deserved to win the game and the fact that we didn't was down to us not defending well at three corners and not being clinical.
"Austin is a top player. As I said this week when I was Sheffield Wednesday manager I wanted to sign him. He looks a very good player.
"It's bitterly disappointing to leave with nothing as I would have been disappointed with just a point."
(courtesy of BBC sport)
He's never said that surely?!
He's never said that surely?!
And so something he hasn't actually said is now being used against him ???
Not sure what you mean, but I repeat His exact words "we handled him very well in general play"makes you wonder if hes got an eye for talent by saying he wanted Austin whilst at sheff wed, but then you remember he signed chris baird and samaras and reality soon returns.
makes you wonder if hes got an eye for talent by saying he wanted Austin whilst at sheff wed, but then you remember he signed chris baird and samaras and reality soon returns.
are you sure, because Irvine said he doesn't have much say in recruitment, then 5 days later says the opposite.
No the club signed Baird and Samaras. Irvine doesn't make the signings.
are you sure, because Irvine said he doesn't have much say in recruitment, then 5 days later says the opposite.
are you sure, because Irvine said he doesn't have much say in recruitment, then 5 days later says the opposite.
We don't have a consistent goalscorer and without one of them it doesn't matter much who is the coach.11th commandment............if you score twice in this league ´thou must not lose ´this wasnt about having a goalscorer this was about individual and collective mistakes from set pieces , then add a touch of lack of bottle = recipe for defeat !!
Love the official site headline from Irvine -A 2-0 scoreline always hinges on the third goal so for it to be a dubious pen it no doubt knocked us back. I was checking on Sky Sports App and reading that we were far the better side - it is a tough place to go at the moment.
'Penalty was turning point.'
Er, we were 2-0 up!!!
Conceding ONE goal - nice one Morrison by the way - should not have been THREE.
It's like the team just gave up after 30 minutes.
Not sure what you mean, but I repeat His exact words "we handled him very well in general play"So in your initial post you paraphrased him (picked up by caravanc58) and then when you quoted him you haven't included the full quote.
I am sure it has been discussed to death but our recruitment model, as I understand it, is the coaches identify what the team needs, the recruitment staff identify players that fit that criteria, the board says what we can afford and between all parties we agree our targets? Not one individual has responsibility for who is or isn't brought in.Yep, that's the best summary of it. I hope that's what happens in reality too, because it would be poor if the head coach had no input
So in your initial post you paraphrased him (picked up by caravanc58) and then when you quoted him you haven't included the full quote.
"He was a real handful for us, we handled him very well in general play but on those three occasions he was good enough certainly to get the two goals from the corners, we highlighted his movement before the game and obviously he scored the penalty."
Criticise him for not making grammatical sense maybe.
I am sure it has been discussed to death but our recruitment model, as I understand it, is the coaches identify what the team needs, the recruitment staff identify players that fit that criteria, the board says what we can afford and between all parties we agree our targets? Not one individual has responsibility for who is or isn't brought in.
I have not criticised him for anything as regards his comments, I simply responded to a question.I have no agenda other than to highlight when others are inaccurate or misleading.
Perhaps that does not suit your agenda.
I have no agenda other than to highlight when others are inaccurate or misleading.
Time for him and the others to go. He picks the team, he picks the tactics and makes the in game decisions. Somewhere along the line it isn't working and regardless of how nice he is, to me from evidence seen at games he is not upto this job and needs to go along with the rest of the coaching staff and if need be Burton as well as the recruitment of head coach and players (with exception of Varela and Lescott who look on a different level to the rest of the squad plus I would add Pocognoli to that as he is a massive improvement on Ridgewell) is not good enough and someone needs to be held to account.
Dean Kiely was quick to self congratulate himself not long ago about how well we dealt with set pieces, well time to slate yourself today Dean as we didn't deal with them.
Time for him and the others to go. He picks the team, he picks the tactics and makes the in game decisions. Somewhere along the line it isn't working and regardless of how nice he is, to me from evidence seen at games he is not upto this job and needs to go along with the rest of the coaching staff and if need be Burton as well as the recruitment of head coach and players (with exception of Varela and Lescott who look on a different level to the rest of the squad plus I would add Pocognoli to that as he is a massive improvement on Ridgewell) is not good enough and someone needs to be held to account.Hahaha, he does that a lot doesn't he? The guy's a moron.
Dean Kiely was quick to self congratulate himself not long ago about how well we dealt with set pieces, well time to slate yourself today Dean as we didn't deal with them.
Let's not fight among ourselves ultimately it is something we have no control over, and, it is Christmas :)
The agenda comment was made as I and others were accused earlier (not by you) of having an agenda against Irvine simply because in our opinion We think he will take us down.
My aim is not to mislead anyone, I simply express an opinion, surely that is what the forum is for.
Where are your facts? (sorry VVVAlbion only joking ;D)
Time for him and the others to go. He picks the team, he picks the tactics and makes the in game decisions. Somewhere along the line it isn't working and regardless of how nice he is, to me from evidence seen at games he is not upto this job and needs to go along with the rest of the coaching staff and if need be Burton as well as the recruitment of head coach and players (with exception of Varela and Lescott who look on a different level to the rest of the squad plus I would add Pocognoli to that as he is a massive improvement on Ridgewell) is not good enough and someone needs to be held to account.
Dean Kiely was quick to self congratulate himself not long ago about how well we dealt with set pieces, well time to slate yourself today Dean as we didn't deal with them.
The misses (who knows very little about footy) just said to me "well, at least you scored a few, you said the other week you'd rather go down fighting than a bored to death loss". She has a point, but still, I feel losing that game has put on firmly on a path to going down. we need to have 38 points minimum going into the last 4 or 5 games.
We need to be played 17, with 21 points at this point to realistically think we can stay up.
Bobby having a decent game is good and Varela playing well is a bonus, because scoring will win games, but letting a 2 goal lead slip for like the 4th time in 2 years isn't good enough and the coaches need to leave. Not AI maybe, but downing and co need to move on, we need fresh blood and ideas.
Firstly, didn't we do pretty much all of that last season? (Which is how we find ourselves in the transitional position we are in now?)
Secondly, if we went to the extremes you suggest, how far do you think we would plummet?
Dean Kiely was quick to self congratulate himself not long ago about how well we dealt with set pieces, well time to slate yourself today Dean as we didn't deal with them.
Kiely was in charge of set piece defence under Hodgson, and we hardly allowed any goals from corners then. Maybe this has more to do with the players?
Firstly, so there is obviously a problem that involves the entire coaching staff then as improvement is not being made. Money is being wasted on players that are no better than what we have and are in some cases not even getting a place on the bench despite injuries to Brunt and Anichebe who are considered by our Head Coach to be automatic choices. That same scenario has also happened over the past few years, yet the new man Mr Burton has done the same again and also brought in an untried Head Coach for a club in its fifth successive season in the top flight as we cannot attract the top guys who if not being forced to work with a ready made coaching staff would be interested in the job I would guess.With only three players we are going to struggle.
Secondly, why would we plummet ?
As I said the point being he was quick to congratulate himself previously, wasn't that then also down to the players ?
My only problem with sacking Irvine is 1. Who the hell could we tempt ?
2. Another 5 week search although I'd be surprised if JP fell in that trap again.
Let them bring in their own staff and you may be surprised who would be interested, to expect them to work with ready made coaching set-up would rule out many who like their own people around them, people they have worked with for a number of years and trust totally.
I would hope the search began as soon as Irvine was appointed as the club claimed they are constantly watching people which does beg the question of why things get dragged out.
Kiely was in charge of set piece defence under Hodgson, and we hardly allowed any goals from corners then. Maybe this has more to do with the players?I suspect Hodgson also had a hand in assisting with set-pieces
(I'm not disagreeing with you, only pointing out this may be a more complicated matter.)
I think we need to review the whole 'model'. This head coach business hasn't worked well for some time now. Lets face it when Roy was here it was obvious that he had more control than most. A system where others identify transfer targets can't be good. We are hearing discontent with similar set ups at Spurs and Sunderland from head coaches regarding recruitment. I'd like to see us go back to a more conventional setup personally. A good manager who is allowed to bring in his own staff and identify the players he wants.
Find it a sad indictment that our club and us as fans now think we are incapable of employing a manager/head coach with the required experience after 5 years in the premiershipWigan had 9 years but were still terrified of losing Martinez as they knew they would never replace him (and it seems that they haven't)
Find it a sad indictment that our club and us as fans now think we are incapable of employing a manager/head coach with the required experience after 5 years in the premiership, are we really that far down the pecking order or such an unattractive club to manage.I'm afraid you have hit the nail on the head with this statement
I keep reading about the problems deep within but they are out in the open where everyone can see.
We have assembled a team with little pace in defence, midfield or attack, Very few of the team are match winners. We have cast offs and players that are not consistent enough for the PL.
I'm not sure it makes much difference who plays as we only have a small amount of players that can turn a game. The rest , try as they will , just do not have the skill levels, speed or ability to perform better than we see each week.
I agree the team selections are not helping. AI has given us some attacking players lately but our midfield is slow and unskilled and all seem to play exactly the same way.We need a midfield general who can pass. attack and put in crunching tackles to help at the back. We haven't had one for years.
I see this team staying up whomever the coach is, I just don't see us becoming a top 10 team unless we offload some of the dead wood and bring in more talented players.
No yellow bar on sky yet then
Nope.
He's safe. As I said last week the win against villa has probably done more damage than good as he's safe now until at least the middle of jan.
Similarities between him at this stage and the stage that Clarke got the boot for. Players all like him but we are devoid of confidence and will really struggle to get any back especially throwing away a 2 goal lead like yesterday. We need a run of games without a loss to get confidence and I simply can't see it happening as we don't seem to have a clue what to do, he definitely needs to go but the issues don't just lie with him. There needs to be a clear out of coaching staff, some players need to go too and the way that things are run from above may need tweaking.The difference is that we won't get away with it this year because of our run-in.
Irvine ain't the problem sorry.He's part of the problem. Downing and Kiely are the rest of it. You could also blame Burton if he recommended Irvine's appointment.
He's part of the problem. Downing and Kiely are the rest of it. You could also blame Burton if he recommended Irvine's appointment.No I agree I meant downer kiely few of the players the lot need to be moved on can't see it happening though they got job for life with us.
Care to expand rather than making random statements backed up without any explanation?
If the three clubs immediately below us have outstanding games next time out we will be in the drop zone, I wonder if that might jolt Mr Peace into some sort of action?doubt it, as the other hand would be we get lucky at City and we go about 12th.It's so tight that the being in the relegation zone means nothing as you can be halfway up the league 2 weeks later.
doubt it, as the other hand would be we get lucky at City and we go about 12th.It's so tight that the being in the relegation zone means nothing as you can be halfway up the league 2 weeks later.
We are not at City we are at home so there's our problem, play negative again Irvine just like against Arsenal and get beat with a whimper!
I think tomorrow there will be a meeting and he will be gone.
No idea who I think should replace him though, need to get it right though this time.. non of this Irvine bollox, 99% of fans seen it would come to this the day it was announced.
Amazing to think that the powers that be must genuinely still believe that Irvine is the man for the job. They need drug testing
Remember a rather negative performance against City funnily enough on boxing day by Roy. We got a 0-0 and everyone was over the moon.
I'd love this to be the case but I just can't see it. If he was to get the sack I'm sure he would of gone last night much like Clarke did the evening we lost to Manchester City.
Wasn't it after a 1-0 defeat to Cardiff ?????
Far from it, a well organised performance against the world's most expensive team. In fact, we could, and should, have nicked it had JT scored instead of hitting the post.
I was just reading back Terry Burton's quotes from when Alan Irvine was appointed, and it occurs to me that our biggest problem with the recruitment of "head coaches" is the club's perception that their most crucial attribute is coaching ability. Although the role is called "head coach", it should be very obvious to those at the top that this role encompasses a hell of a lot more than just coaching ability. At most clubs, you have good coaches working under a manager. That's what Irvine is good at. I'm not questioning his coaching ability, but it's obvious that he doesn't have the other, arguably more important skills to be a good "head coach", regardless of the title of the role. Being a good "head coach" requires the ability to motivate players, instil discipline, design and implement effective tactics, pick appropriate teams from match to match, and make game-changing substitutions. Irvine is clearly lacking in all of these areas. I would have no problem if Irvine was a coach working under a "head coach" who possessed these managerial qualities. In fact, that's exactly how the structure should work in order for us to succeed. To be frank, you don't even need to be good at coaching to be a good "head coach", so long as you have good coaches working under you. It's no use putting on exhilarating training sessions all week if you can't pick your best players on a Saturday. It just seems that somewhere along the line, someone at the top has been sidetracked by the terminology of "head coach", thinking that the most important attribute is what goes on at the training ground. Although that's part of what is needed, there are other, major abilities that are probably more important for a "head coach". This is evidenced by Roy Hodgson's success at the club, a man with clear managerial qualities. As such, if we were to bring in a man with these managerial qualities as "head coach", I'd be happy to see Irvine moved to a strictly coaching role (with Downing and Kiely being released). This may even remove some embarrassment.
Mr Peace, if you're reading this, please take heed.
Here's the article on Terry Burton if anyone was wondering: http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2014/06/19/west-broms-terry-burton-alan-irvine-is-the-best-coach-in-the-uk/
Professional communication
Communicating with players
Communicating with staff
Communicating with senior management, owners and senior stakeholders
Communicating with the media, wider community and supporters
Communicating with third party talent identification and recruitment agencies
Leadership, management of self and others
Influence and influencing
Practical applications of leadership
Leading and developing staff and associates
Leading winning teams in the modern game
Managing oneself and handling the pressures of management
Decision-making, and time and priority management
Performance management
Tactical understanding of the game and of systems of play
Technical understanding of play and players
Talent identification and recruitment
Performance analysis and purposeful use of data
Seasonal planning and preparation
Weekly planning, preparation and management
Match day management
Understanding and utilisation of physical conditioning, recovery and rehabilitation
Developing and sustaining a winning culture
Football business and finance
Understanding finance
Building a brand
Employment and contract law
Commercial and other revenue opportunities
Marketing and public relations
AI has ALL of those? SHOW ME THE PROOF because he doesnt show it on a Saturday afternoon!
I think it's perhaps you that is misunderstanding the head coach role.
Alan Irvine, like all other "Managers" in the EPL, has a UEFA Pro Licence. To be awarded the licence he has to satisfy the assessors that he is capable in the following areas.
Read More here http://www.thefa.com/my-football/coach/coaching-courses/the-fa-uefa-pro-licence (http://www.thefa.com/my-football/coach/coaching-courses/the-fa-uefa-pro-licence)
So AI's got all the attributes you describe, if he didn't, he wouldn't have got his pro licence.
AI has ALL of those? SHOW ME THE PROOF because he doesnt show it on a Saturday afternoon!
AI has ALL of those? SHOW ME THE PROOF because he doesnt show it on a Saturday afternoon!He must has a memory like a sieve then!
So anyone who has a pro licence is fit to manage our club?
I think it's perhaps you that is misunderstanding the head coach role.
Alan Irvine, like all other "Managers" in the EPL, has a UEFA Pro Licence. To be awarded the licence he has to satisfy the assessors that he is capable in the following areas.
Read More here http://www.thefa.com/my-football/coach/coaching-courses/the-fa-uefa-pro-licence (http://www.thefa.com/my-football/coach/coaching-courses/the-fa-uefa-pro-licence)
So AI's got all the attributes you describe, if he didn't, he wouldn't have got his pro licence.
Clarke shouldn't of been sacked is my opinion a year although i have just came to that a year on but hindsight is a wonderful thing we do need stability like a few of our older generation of supporters have said, I would give the next man four years with us and let him try and build something and get good feeling back around the place.
You have to laugh at some of the rubbish Irvine comes out with, before the OPR game he spouted on about how much he rated Austin, saying he can score from anyware, good at heading, good to hold up play, find space. Then he said we have got 2 good central defenders to take care of that and he wont loose sleep about him. So what happens he scores 3. He talks rubbish, Still we still have Brown, the brilliant Morrison, Dorrens, and our leader of men Brunt and then Irvine in control. Its looking good for us playing the dingles about October >:
You have to laugh at some of the rubbish Irvine comes out with, before the OPR game he spouted on about how much he rated Austin, saying he can score from anyware, good at heading, good to hold up play, find space. Then he said we have got 2 good central defenders to take care of that and he wont loose sleep about him. So what happens he scores 3. He talks rubbish, Still we still have Brown, the brilliant Morrison, Dorrens, and our leader of men Brunt and then Irvine in control. Its looking good for us playing the dingles about October >:So he was correct about Austin? Doesn't sound like rubbish?
Just going back to 3 goals from(ish) corners for a minute.
In our team on Saturday there are:
- 2 tall centre backs.
- 2 reasonably tall full backs
- 3 average sized attacking midfielders
- 2 smallish wingers
- 1 average sized forward
We do not have the resources to mark more than 2 tall players. We have 3 very similar midfielders who are much more of an attacking nature than defensive, none are particularly good markers. As alternatives, Yacob is a good marker, but not tall (and I think Mulumbu normally manages the far post). Is it a surprise we can't deal with corners? Not really. I would say that QPR had 5 outfield players 6' plus and knew we would struggle (6 when hill came on).
So, in our managerial structure who identifies that we need to bring some height into the squad? Who identifies that we have lots of players with similar attributes and we should be looking at physically different players?
So anyone who has a pro licence is fit to manage our club?
If it's that easy why bother interviewing or ever changing managers?
It's like saying anyone who has passed their test can compete with Lewis Hamilton. It's all about levels of competence and understanding and, what sets the truly great managers apart, the things that cannot be learned from a book.
I don't think anyone doubts his qualifications it's his application that is lacking.
You have to laugh at some of the rubbish Irvine comes out with, before the OPR game he spouted on about how much he rated Austin, saying he can score from anyware, good at heading, good to hold up play, find space. Then he said we have got 2 good central defenders to take care of that and he wont loose sleep about him. So what happens he scores 3. He talks rubbish, Still we still have Brown, the brilliant Morrison, Dorrens, and our leader of men Brunt and then Irvine in control. Its looking good for us playing the dingles about October >:No-one can argue with this point.
The club supposedly keep tabs on potential managers (head coaches) so the amount of messing about it took to replace him made that look complete rubbish.
No-one can argue with this point.
I was going to but VVV Albion beat me to it. what I'd add to VVV's good points are that if Irvine had still said the complimentary things about Austin and then said he was definitely going to be losing sleep worrying about him..people on here would have crucified him for it and for talking up the opposition.He did talk up Austin though didn't he? He listed all of his strengths and did nothing to negate them.
Damned whatever he does by some it seems.
He did talk up Austin though didn't he? He listed all of his strengths and did nothing to negate them.
That cannot be argued as it is all based on fact:
He waxed lyrical about Austin.
Austin scored a hatrick.
He didn't do nothing to negate Austin though did he, he picked Lescott and McAuley either of whom should have been good enough to deal with Austin but they chose to leave it to Pocognoli or so it seems.
Who's brilliant idea was it to put our left back on their tall, goal scoring striker on set pieces? Our international centre backs were marking other players.
It was revealed by Pepe Mel that the club spoke to him three days after his sacking at which point it was something like another ten days before Steve Clarke's sacking. I think what made it such a long drawn out process is the faffing about we had over Pepe Mel's coaching staff.
Yes I know all that Liam so why did our comprehensive lists contain the name of one bloke in Spain and seemingly no-one else ?
Well we interviewed Quique Flores and Thomas Schaaf as well didn't we?
I'm not disagreeing with you. The club were obviously pro-active at first and then dragged it out into a long, silly and quite laughable six weeks. They ended up doing more u-turns than you :-*
If we do replace him the key is that the fans can unite around the appointment. There is zero enjoyment and pure negativity around the ground which is turning people away. For me we push the boat out and go young and exciting and try get Eddie Howe or we have an experienced head in Tony Pulis. If either of those two failed I'd have confidence in us coming back up at least.
so, how do we think opposition will attack us in next few games, i fully expect an aerial assault.
How does AI defend against this? I would expect to see Dawson, McCauley and Lescott as a back 3. This IMO represents an opportunity to get Gamboa in the side and going forward, together with Poc on the other side.
Lets see plan B Alan.
Ive been saying Eddie Howe for ages.
Yes he was homesick whilst at Burnley; but he could move to Bristol and manage us.
Only be an hour from us & a hour from home either way.
Has already turned us down according to Dan Gosling in last weeks Telegraph.
I don't know I'm not privy to that kind of information. It may have been Irvine it may have been down to Lescott, McAuley and Pocognoli.
If you know for sure then please enlighten me.
yes but you are contradicting yourself. If you read the original poster he claimed that Irvine talked rubbish and you agreed with him when he didn't talk rubbish at all. He said Austin was a threat and he was a threat, he said we had 2 central defenders capable of coping with him and they should have been, again not talking rubbish.Sorry but I'm not having that, are you really suggesting that a meticulous coach would not have a say in who marks who from set pieces? You say that some won't give him a chance, but this is just defending the indefensible, which is just as bizarre..
He didn't do nothing to negate Austin though did he, he picked Lescott and McAuley either of whom should have been good enough to deal with Austin but they chose to leave it to Pocognoli or so it seems.
His post-match comments "We kept him quiet apart from his 3 goals" are just as bad.
I sort of understand his point, but you cant say that to the world. It just oozes stupidity/naivety.
I for love of money cannot see why he is still at the club.
His post-match comments "We kept him quiet apart from his 3 goals" are just as bad.
I sort of understand his point, but you cant say that to the world. It just oozes stupidity/naivety.
I for love of money cannot see why he is still at the club.
Please tell me that isn't a genuine quote.
He's like our version of Dean Saunders.
if you need all those attributes to be a manager or head coach why did our players complain about communication problems with pepe mel when so much emphasis in the required qualifications are being able to communicate.
I think it's perhaps you that is misunderstanding the head coach role.
Alan Irvine, like all other "Managers" in the EPL, has a UEFA Pro Licence. To be awarded the licence he has to satisfy the assessors that he is capable in the following areas.
Read More here http://www.thefa.com/my-football/coach/coaching-courses/the-fa-uefa-pro-licence (http://www.thefa.com/my-football/coach/coaching-courses/the-fa-uefa-pro-licence)
So AI's got all the attributes you describe, if he didn't, he wouldn't have got his pro licence.
if you need all those attributes to be a manager or head coach why did our players complain about communication problems with pepe mel when so much emphasis in the required qualifications are being able to communicate.Because it's a European standards license, so it doesn't necessarily mean you have to communicate in English. Mel got his Licences in Spain, ergo, he had not issues.
I have the attributes to be a virtuoso piano player, but i ain't one, because i don't have the required talent & charisma. Need I finish......You also don't have the renown or the respect of the musical community to even have the opportunity to call yourself one. You'd be laughed out for even trying to do so as you have no years of experience or graft as a regular musician.
I have the attributes to be a virtuoso piano player, but i ain't one, because i don't have the required talent & charisma. Need I finish......
Because it's a European standards license, so it doesn't necessarily mean you have to communicate in English. Mel got his Licences in Spain, ergo, he had not issues.makes you wonder how he got through the interview process if his English is so bad he couldn't communicate with the players, or maybe el gringo mr peace can speak Spanish.
Im sure somebody will post links, but yes it is a quote.It isn't an accurate quote ;)
Sorry but I'm not having that, are you really suggesting that a meticulous coach would not have a say in who marks who from set pieces? You say that some won't give him a chance, but this is just defending the indefensible, which is just as bizarre..A meticulous coach identifies the risk, provides a plan to combat it and then relies on the players to enact upon it. Points one and two appear to be covered.
I don't like Irvine, but have no personal agenda against him. I have already said that, for me, there were more positives from Saturday's defeat than from last week's win, but he set himself up with his pre match comments about Austin and has to shoulder some of the blame.
Please tell me that isn't a genuine quote.It isn't a genuine quote.
He's like our version of Dean Saunders.
It isn't a genuine quote.Well, it pretty much is... I think his words were "we handled Austin well in general play"
Well, it pretty much is... I think his words were "we handled Austin well in general play"
It pretty much is if you want to take it out of context.
"He was a real handful for us, we handled him very well in general play but on those three occasions he was good enough certainly to get the two goals from the corners, we highlighted his movement before the game and obviously he scored the penalty."
And that seems pretty much spot on.The problem is it's hugely naive to come out with a statement praising the way you handled a player who single-handedly won QPR the game by scoring a hat-trick against us, regardless of how well we may or may not have handled him for the rest of the game. Handling a player well on every other occasion in meaningless if you still allow him to score against you three times, and it's a very, very stupid comment, and yet another example of why Irvine will never get the fans onside.
The problem is it's hugely naive to come out with a statement praising the way you handled a player who single-handedly won QPR the game by scoring a hat-trick against us, regardless of how well we may or may not have handled him for the rest of the game. Handling a player well on every other occasion in meaningless if you still allow him to score against you three times, and it's a very, very stupid comment, and yet another example of why Irvine will never get the fans onside.Irvine will never get some of the fans onside as they are narrow and single minded, having determined from day one that he shouldn't have been appointed.
Irvine will never get some of the fans onside as they are narrow and single minded, having determined from day one that he shouldn't have been appointed.He shouldn't have been appointed, as his record dictates. The vast majority of fans still gave him a chance though, and only after 17 games (including 3 cup games), when everything had been going exactly as his previous record suggested it would, and as Preston and Sheffield Wednesday had warned, did fans start to turn at a game (vs West Ham). I don't think that's unfair.
He shouldn't have been appointed, as his record dictates. The vast majority of fans still gave him a chance though, and only after 17 games (including 3 cup games), when everything had been going exactly as his previous record suggested it would, and as Preston and Sheffield Wednesday had warned, did fans start to turn at a game (vs West Ham). I don't think that's unfair.40+% win ratio at both his previous clubs. Preston fans demonstrating following his dismissal. Better record as Sheff Wed manager than the previous 10 managers stretching back 15 years. But keep rewriting history. I imagine some Sheff Wednesday fans are very similar to some of ours. ;)
40+% win ratio at both his previous clubs. Preston fans demonstrating following his dismissal. Better record as Sheff Wed manager than the previous 10 managers stretching back 15 years. But keep rewriting history. I imagine some Sheff Wednesday fans are very similar to some of ours. ;)Wow, got Sheffield Wednesday relegated to League One and had a 40% win ratio in the Championship and League One. Incidentally has a 23% league win ratio here. Sounds like Premiership material... ???
Can i ask if any of 61 fans who have voted "stay or go", did any of you vote for him to go in the previous round & now see that he can do a job with us or have you always supported him.I did ask if they could show the old poll and the new poll just to see what if any opinions had changed but nothing happened following the request.
I never wanted him & still dont so in the 2 votes i have voted for him to go.
40+% win ratio at both his previous clubs. Preston fans demonstrating following his dismissal. Better record as Sheff Wed manager than the previous 10 managers stretching back 15 years. But keep rewriting history. I imagine some Sheff Wednesday fans are very similar to some of ours. ;)
Sheff Wed and Preston are a totally different kettle of fish. We are believe it or not a Premier League club in our 5th straight season yet the club and some of our fans are acting as though we should be grateful to be there and hide away in the corner like the new boys worshipping the higher echelons of football and thanking them for allowing us in their precious league instead of building each season and actually trying to improve instead of settling for 17th.That kind of comment represents the level of complacency that exists in a certain group of our players, bred by the ultra-comfortable coaching environment they are immersed in, and that kind of comment from a senior player makes me think we deserve to go down.
Fosters recent comment was embarassing “As long you don’t finish in that bottom three that is the be all and end all.â€
Sheff Wed and Preston are a totally different kettle of fish. We are believe it or not a Premier League club in our 5th straight season yet the club and some of our fans are acting as though we should be grateful to be there and hide away in the corner like the new boys worshipping the higher echelons of football and thanking them for allowing us in their precious league instead of building each season and actually trying to improve instead of settling for 17th.As I've posted before, were Wigan this giant of the Premier League that had weathered the mighty storm of their opposition for nearly a decade? no, it was Oh look Wigan, we have to beat them unless we are the worst team EVAR!! Fulham, Bolton & Sunderland have also been in this position we are in and for longer than we have. 5 years isn't really anything.
Fosters recent comment was embarassing “As long you don’t finish in that bottom three that is the be all and end all.â€
Sheff Wed and Preston are a totally different kettle of fish. We are believe it or not a Premier League club in our 5th straight season yet the club and some of our fans are acting as though we should be grateful to be there and hide away in the corner like the new boys worshipping the higher echelons of football and thanking them for allowing us in their precious league instead of building each season and actually trying to improve instead of settling for 17th.Sweet Jeff, that says it all. Foster's happy now his kids are settled in bloody school!!! Slippers on lads!
Fosters recent comment was embarassing “As long you don’t finish in that bottom three that is the be all and end all.â€
As I've posted before, were Wigan this giant of the Premier League that had weathered the mighty storm of their opposition for nearly a decade? no, it was Oh look Wigan, we have to beat them unless we are the worst team EVAR!! Fulham, Bolton & Sunderland have also been in this position we are in and for longer than we have. 5 years isn't really anything.
I don't think you're ever established in this division to be honest.Hence the reason where staring relegation in the eye this season flirting with the dropzone will only lead in one thing eventually.
I guess if you offered 17th to Jeremy Peace every season then he would take it.
The problem is it's hugely naive to come out with a statement praising the way you handled a player who single-handedly won QPR the game by scoring a hat-trick against us, regardless of how well we may or may not have handled him for the rest of the game. Handling a player well on every other occasion in meaningless if you still allow him to score against you three times, and it's a very, very stupid comment, and yet another example of why Irvine will never get the fans onside.It would be a bit like commenting on the lack of goals from open play because goals from set pieces don't count?
Funny you should quote the Sheffield Wednesday managers though. Many of those were competing in the Premier League (and were awful appointments may I add) whereas Irvine had a spell in the Championship and of course league one. His reign in league one was hardly a glowing endorsement of his credentials and that for one reason alone should have seen us stay well away from him.So, you've established Sheff Wednesday were a club already in decline. Alan Irvine took them over in Jan 2010 with them 22nd in the league and is deemed to have relegated them, although in reality almost kept them up only missing out on the last day of the season. They were then on the brink of receivership and had a backroom takeover. You are right, his time at Sheff Wed would not be classed as a success but it is not exactly the massive failure that some have made it out to be.
Do I care a jot about other clubs ? Not one bit.You might not care about them but that does not make them any less relevant.
if his record is so good and he is such a top notch coach how come he hasnt been given a chance in the intervening years!?This is a great arguement. Maybe he has and maybe his experiences made it that he was comfortable not having to worry about the unwarranted abuse and flak that he would get at head coach level. Maybe the level of any offer was not sufficient to seduce him? Maybe he has never applied for a role (he didn't apply for this one apparently) and it was only a club of our size that could tempt him back into the limelight and, maybe naively, he looked at our history and thought he would get an appropriate level of support and time from day one.
Quite a few football people have praised Alan Irvine, even Old Arry said he was impressed with our 'Attacking play' on Saturday.Didn't some on here say they don't mind losing as long as we play 'Attacking Football'.
Lets be honest folks, most of you havent given him a chance since he was appointed. No one decent wants the WBA job simple as that. Just remember that when Dingle Dave is appointed.
You might not care about them but that does not make them any less relevant.
Quite a few football people have praised Alan Irvine, even Old Arry said he was impressed with our 'Attacking play' on Saturday.
Lets be honest folks, most of you havent given him a chance since he was appointed. No one decent wants the WBA job simple as that. Just remember that when Dingle Dave is appointed.
Beating Villa was worthless if you're going to get turned over at QPR.3 points is not better than 0 points? Bizarre.
For me, enough really is enough and was a number of weeks ago. He is very naive, and out of his depth. The lack of in game management is so poor. Our game was crying out for someone to control the game in the middle take it by the scruff. We effectively let Joey fuggin Barton control it and pass us to death.
I'd love to know the theory of bringing on Gamboa as well in the 92nd minute, very strange.
And that is the worrying thing given a club of our size and stature with a proud history.
I didn't want him, don't want him now but have given him a chance and for 90 minutes each game I back the bloke all the way but doesn't mean I have blind faith like some. I want the best for the club as all do and I have the right to put my opinion across on this forum.
I do also think some of the Pro Irvine camp do make some good points at times but then ruin them with their belittling comments.
So because other clubs fail we have to follow ?As they are in the same business/industry/sport as us of course they are relevant. Do you seriously think that any leading organisation does not look at its competitors to learn from their successes andtheir mistakes. Its why many clubs hold West Brom as the original model they followed to getting into the Premier league.
Why when discussing West Bromwich Albion do they become relevant ? Is it so we can make ourselves feel better by comparing ourselves to others that failed because 5 years really isn't anything ?
Oh how we should feel so grateful for them to allow us to still be here.
As they are in the same business/industry/sport as us of course they are relevant. Do you seriously think that any leading organisation does not look at its competitors to learn from their successes andtheir mistakes. Its why many clubs hold West Brom as the original model they followed to getting into the Premier league.
As I said I (as in ME !!) do not give a jot about other clubs. I would expect the relevant people at the club to be interested in what goes on elsewhere but for me I don't give a monkeys.Is being in 15th failing based on the position that we found ourselves at the end of last season?
But as you responded with the above. So we have to fail because others have ?
Is being in 15th failing based on the position that we found ourselves at the end of last season?
I don't think I said we are failing anywhere did I ? but the season is a long way from being over so neither of us can predict how it will go. If we finish 17th in the clubs and your eyes we will have succeeded no doubt and we can hide away in the corner for another season in awe of the rest of the league and celebrate like we did the first time we stayed up.We have failed. We did this last year with our poor recruitment and failure to replace players with better players. This has a massive set back in league where you take tiny steps forward and massive steps backwards. It almost cost us our premier league status. We learn from others not to make continual massive wholesale changes but to build slow momentum again, which we are no doubt currently doing. We will finish higher than 17th in my opinion given the current way our squad and play is shaping when compared to the end of last season.
I asked if we have to fail just because others are, two different things.
I don't think I said we are failing anywhere did I ? but the season is a long way from being over so neither of us can predict how it will go. If we finish 17th in the clubs and your eyes we will have succeeded no doubt and we can hide away in the corner for another season in awe of the rest of the league and celebrate like we did the first time we stayed up.This has stemmed from my post, has it not?
I asked if we have to fail just because others are, two different things.
so come them, predict Irvines next win and dont say Gateshead.I cant see one anytime soon = relegationStoke ;-)
We have failed. We did this last year with our poor recruitment and failure to replace players with better players. This has a massive set back in league where you take tiny steps forward and massive steps backwards. It almost cost us our premier league status. We learn from others not to make continual massive wholesale changes but to build slow momentum again, which we are no doubt currently doing. We will finish higher than 17th in my opinion given the current way our squad and play is shaping when compared to the end of last season.
so come them, predict Irvines next win and dont say Gateshead.I cant see one anytime soon = relegation
This has stemmed from my post, has it not?
If it has, I'll just point out that that it's not that they failed,not at all.. In fact Sunderland are still going in this position Just that we are NOT at all special in terms of the position we are currently in. You may not care about them, but it's very likely they don't care about us. Doesn't stop the fact that these are all similar clubs in similar positions.
so come them, predict Irvines next win and dont say Gateshead.I cant see one anytime soon = relegationLuckily the last time someone said that (Jacko I believe) we beat Tottenham, I also can't remember if it was Jacko or yourself (apologies if it wasn't) who said that when we got into the relegation zone that we'd "never get out again all season. Since then we've got out after 1 game and not gone back. so, yeah anything can happen. But the next I expect to win is Hull at home, if the team has the support they require. That does NOT constitute that we won't win 'till then, though.
Didn't some on here say they don't mind losing as long as we play 'Attacking Football'.
I agree with much of what you say but for us to finish higher than 17th will take some doing regardless of where we are at this time, long way to go and despite our lack of activity during the January window usually this time we need to use it especially in the midfield department to bring in some quality or start using the players we have more effectively and in correct positions. I honestly fear for us this season.I have more concern up front than in midfield. Our midfield have a recognised history of creating and scoring goals, our forwards don't. People are blaming the midfield for not supplying our forwards butthe forwards have to put themselves in the position to receive the ball. We haven't got a Lukaku, Long, Phillips or Odemwingie making runs or space.
so come them, predict Irvines next win and dont say Gateshead.I cant see one anytime soon = relegation
I have more concern up front than in midfield. Our midfield have a recognised history of creating and scoring goals, our forwards don't. People are blaming the midfield for not supplying our forwards butthe forwards have to put themselves in the position to receive the ball. We haven't got a Lukaku, Long, Phillips or Odemwingie making runs or space.
I have more concern up front than in midfield. Our midfield have a recognised history of creating and scoring goals, our forwards don't. People are blaming the midfield for not supplying our forwards butthe forwards have to put themselves in the position to receive the ball. We haven't got a Lukaku, Long, Phillips or Odemwingie making runs or space.
I have more concern up front than in midfield. Our midfield have a recognised history of creating and scoring goals, our forwards don't. People are blaming the midfield for not supplying our forwards butthe forwards have to put themselves in the position to receive the ball. We haven't got a Lukaku, Long, Phillips or Odemwingie making runs or space.
From the little bit i've seen of Bobby i would have said that making runs into space was his main forte.
Berahino has become very adept at making good runs. But he spends 75% of every game on the bench.75% of 2 games is not every game
I know I’m probably in the minority of one but I actually have alot of time for Irvine. He appears to be a man of integrity and I respect his honesty, diligence and thorough preparatory work. I know some may choose not to believe it but based on what I have read I genuinely believe he is a top coach and it also appears that he is very fair with the players.Have to agree re QPR, we have to acknowledge the positives. I, along with many others, have been crying out for some attacking intent and we got that against QPR, without doubt.
I also believe that there are signs that his team is improving, putting aside the defending of set pieces for a second we generally look solid defensively, I also think the whole team has improved significantly ‘without the ball’ this season. The big problem has been creativity but against QPR (who by the way have the 5th best home form in the league) there were periods when we played some scintillating stuff with Sess and Varela in particular wreaking havoc. Hopefully the combination and growing understanding between these two dangerous players will remedy much of what we have lacked so far this season.
I honestly don’t view this team as one which is staring relegation in the mouth but one that with a few tweaks, in terms of set pieces and personnel is not far from giving a good account of themselves in the second half of this season. Keep the faith.
75% of 2 games is not every game
Quite a few football people have praised Alan Irvine, even Old Arry said he was impressed with our 'Attacking play' on Saturday.
Lets be honest folks, most of you havent given him a chance since he was appointed. No one decent wants the WBA job simple as that. Just remember that when Dingle Dave is appointed.
This job is one of the top 50 positions in world football, in terms of budget, profile, media exposure, etc. Unless they're already in a better position every other football manager should want to be Manager of West Brom. Problem is that, we're not talking about manager of West Brom. There are so many constrictions that limit your chance of making a success of it that many would rather not take it than put themselves (and their hard-earned reputations) in a fully compromised position. Only those that are desperate for any opportunity on any terms will take the role that AI has.
We need someone to have the vision to pull it all together to define roles, make sure everyone is working in the same direction, to motivate and inspire and lead... That person is absent.
Its a job where survival is the be all and all (apparently). No aspirations to win anything.
Unless you have zero ambition, are long term un-employed or are coming from obscurity why would you take it??
You could say that about 75% of the manager jobs in the Premier League where nothing more than survival is realistic.Nah, some give the cups a go ! Some appoint ex-winners who aspire to re-kindle their careers, just we choose not to do that rightly or wrongly.
Nah, some give the cups a go ! Some appoint ex-winners who aspire to re-kindle their careers, just we choose not to do that rightly or wrongly.
I agree with you. That's my biggest bugbear. If its unrealistic to expect to finish higher than 8th, then the two Cups should be a priority. Sadly, they are viewed as a hindrance to the chances of staying up. Very sad.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11208735/The-best-and-worst-Premier-League-player-and-team-stats-from-the-first-100-games-of-the-season.html
Just discovered this article. Appreciate a little dated and things will have changed but whilst some like to only focus on our club I do find it helpful to bring some perspective to the table.
I, like most fans would love to be proved wrong regarding AI, but his record isn't great reading.I think this is a fair picture - Clarke was the same; the Villa game did for him IMHO, he was like a rabbit in the headlights when Villa changed their setup completely, it wasn't even that he didn't know what do, it was almost as if he didn't really think it was up to him to do anything. Lambert might be a rubbish manager, but at least he behaves like a manager.
4 wins from 17 games and that from probably the easiest fixtures to start we have had , but my main concern is his total lack of ability to alter the coarse of a game with tactical changes or subs, he stands there looking at his watch and making no difference to the team at all and if he his this wonderful coach we all hear about i think he should be able to.
i watch most of the coaches who come to the hawthorns making changes to setups and subs all game and effecting the outcome but not AI .
I think he does a lot of homework on a game plan , watching videos and live games and comes up with his "game plan" has he likes to call it, but if plan A doesn't work we are screwed.
My main concerns with the coaching team including Irvine are:-As being proven at this moment.
- inability to change/react to a a game
- no improvement to any outfield players
- every goalkeeper under Kiely has gone backwards, losing the ability to kick and dominate the area (particularly at set pieces)
- conceding from 3 set pieces (one indirectly) in one premier league game is a disgrace, unacceptable at this level
- failure to utilise signing, Gamboa, Samaras and Blanco barely seen despite what you may think of them. Varela and Ideye finally getting game time with the former actually looking good (shock horror)
- never known a head coach/manager so reluctant to make subs. Too scared?
- Mulumbu/Yacob who were so good at the start of the 2012/2013 season replaced by Morrison/Gardner. Morrison a defensive midfielder??
He gotta go now please sack him
I fully expect AI to be placed on "Gardening Leave" later this evening after that shambles.
I think he will too, for sure.
I wouldn't let Irvine, Downing or Kiely even clean my F***ING football boots.wouldn't let look after my garden either.
I don't expect to beat these but at least we could try to give them a game
Irvine is clueless and every home game now turns into a training game for our opponents
Irvine out for gods sake before it's too late
Ps I bet the after match interview starts with we had a game plan but it was spoilt after 5 minutes
I agree we need a change and I thought that as soon as he was appointed. Trouble is I have no faith in Peace and his cronies to make a good appointment. They hired this buffoon so we could end up with Mike Bassett.
We should bust a gut to go all out and bring me back
Agree entirely Pepe, JP should be ashamed of himself never gave the bloke a chance with his own backroom staff and players. Shame on you Jeremy Peace.
Any excuse for him today?Individual error only?Not his responsibility?
Brought on substitutes who were lively and scored. Not one of the reasons we lost today were Irvine's fault. Two were Ben Fosters, one was the refs. Berahino didn't have a shot on target, Lescott couldn't score from three yards.
Brought on substitutes who were lively and scored. Not one of the reasons we lost today were Irvine's fault. Two were Ben Fosters, one was the refs. Berahino didn't have a shot on target, Lescott couldn't score from three yards.
We have quality here and a decent squad. However we have simply awful awful coaches who are so out of their depth and are very lucky to be working at a Premiership club. The end is nigh for Alan Irvine.Nail on the head. We have the squad here to be comfortable in the top half, but this coaching team are consistently picking their favourites (Wisdom, Morrison, Gardner, Dorrans/Brunt when fit) over more talented players (Gamboa, Mulumbu, Yacob, Blanco). It's infuriating.
We have quality here and a decent squad. However we have simply awful awful coaches who are so out of their depth and are very lucky to be working at a Premiership club. The end is nigh for Alan Irvine.We can but hope !!
Utterly and totally worse than last season. Supporters of irvine :D
Irvine's had his go , most were fair but it's clear he is out of his depth and i just feel sorry for him rather than angry.
He is far from the only problem at the club however he makes the calls at the end of the day , we already had several inconsistent players in the squad and now in recent weeks we can see Poco , Foster , Gardner and Lescott going backwards form wise. It worried me how many of these players came out and said how much they like Irvine , that's alright if we are getting results but we aren't and somehow despite having a decent/good squad on paper we seem to be just as bad if not worse than last season. I don't want the tag of being a sacking club but Irvine was never the right choice from day one.
This squad needs a Manager/ Head Coach not a mate which is what Irvine appears to be to a large number of them.
Time's up JP.
posted this on after match debate, but think its worth posting here as well
quote taken from BBC Sport
West Brom manager Alan Irvine: "We started well but the first time City went up the pitch they got a goal which was down to our mistake. We continued to look as if we might score and we came very close on a few occasions.
"We still looked as if we were very much in the game but we made individual errors that when you make them in the Premier League are costly, and when you make them against Manchester City they are extremely costly."
Q was he watching the same game as me?
Brought on substitutes who were lively and scored. Not one of the reasons we lost today were Irvine's fault. Two were Ben Fosters, one was the refs. Berahino didn't have a shot on target, Lescott couldn't score from three yards.we were beaten as soon as the teams came on the pitch, they looked scared to death. There was no passion, no fight and worst of all not one of them looked interested. I said to my grandson look at this lot, we are going to get smashed.I haven't commented on Irvine before, but he and the other two Muppets should be sacked tonight.
and the poll shows the vote for him to stay increased since the final whistle.
what am I missing please tell me.
Nail on the head. We have the squad here to be comfortable in the top half, but this coaching team are consistently picking their favourites (Wisdom, Morrison, Gardner, Dorrans/Brunt when fit) over more talented players (Gamboa, Mulumbu, Yacob, Blanco). It's infuriating.
My God, the Irvine haters are really lapping it up tonight. Call yourselves Albion supporters ? Ye should be ashamed of yourselves. Ye know who ye are.. in fact we all do. Coming on here, spouting the same old drivel after every bad result. So predictable.
Yes, none of us were enamoured when AI got the job, myself included. In fact, i was once who voiced my disapproval at the time. However, an Albion manager deserves support while he is in the job.
Those of you coming on here day after day slagging the guy off are a f##king disgrace to the club. I am embarrassed to be associated with what i can only describe as a witch-hunt.
Just for a moment, look back at the Pre-Match thread where we were all suggesting what team should be picked. AI picked, more or less, what team the majority of us who posted on there asked for - an-attacking looking team, with Mulumbu restored to add defensive strength.
What happened - 3 horrific individual errors and we go 3-0 down.
Yeah yeah yeah, its all AI's fault. We know we know. FFs, would you lot ever get lost on some other forum. AI is the Albion manager, and we should be supporting him and the team, rather than this continous and sustained witch-hunt that has been disgraceful beyond belief.
As i said already, i didnt want AI as manager, and he was a poor appointment and for the life of me, i couldnt see how it was going to work, but you'd swear we were 10 points adrift at the bottom of the table tonight, the way some of the drama queens are going on and on, spouting their boring, repetitive drivel here. I aint going to name ye, but the usual suspects have been on here already this evening in all their glory.
I, for one, am a proud Baggie, and support the team and the manager through thick and thin, even when we are struggling badly.
And i notice all the whingers were loud in their support of more attacking teams being picked in the last few weeks. Well, what have you guys got to say tonight..... Valera was bloody awful today, Idye gets worse with every outing, and Berahino looks as if he wouldnt hit a bard door at the moment.
But yes, yes, i know...i should toe the line, like a blind fool. AI out AI out.. Well, no thanks, guys. AI needs our support while he is in the job, and if i am the only one on here who still stands by him, so be it.
But feel free to continue to scapegoat and pillorise him. We are 10 points adrift after all........oh sorry, i just checked... we are not even in the bottom 3. But most of the whingers on here dont like to let facts get in the way of a good scapegoating. Enjoy your moaning.
My God, the Irvine haters are really lapping it up tonight. Call yourselves Albion supporters ? Ye should be ashamed of yourselves. Ye know who ye are.. in fact we all do. Coming on here, spouting the same old drivel after every bad result. So predictable.
Yes, none of us were enamoured when AI got the job, myself included. In fact, i was once who voiced my disapproval at the time. However, an Albion manager deserves support while he is in the job.
Those of you coming on here day after day slagging the guy off are a f##king disgrace to the club. I am embarrassed to be associated with what i can only describe as a witch-hunt.
Just for a moment, look back at the Pre-Match thread where we were all suggesting what team should be picked. AI picked, more or less, what team the majority of us who posted on there asked for - an-attacking looking team, with Mulumbu restored to add defensive strength.
What happened - 3 horrific individual errors and we go 3-0 down.
Yeah yeah yeah, its all AI's fault. We know we know. FFs, would you lot ever get lost on some other forum. AI is the Albion manager, and we should be supporting him and the team, rather than this continous and sustained witch-hunt that has been disgraceful beyond belief.
As i said already, i didnt want AI as manager, and he was a poor appointment and for the life of me, i couldnt see how it was going to work, but you'd swear we were 10 points adrift at the bottom of the table tonight, the way some of the drama queens are going on and on, spouting their boring, repetitive drivel here. I aint going to name ye, but the usual suspects have been on here already this evening in all their glory.
I, for one, am a proud Baggie, and support the team and the manager through thick and thin, even when we are struggling badly.
And i notice all the whingers were loud in their support of more attacking teams being picked in the last few weeks. Well, what have you guys got to say tonight..... Valera was bloody awful today, Idye gets worse with every outing, and Berahino looks as if he wouldnt hit a bard door at the moment.
But yes, yes, i know...i should toe the line, like a blind fool. AI out AI out.. Well, no thanks, guys. AI needs our support while he is in the job, and if i am the only one on here who still stands by him, so be it.
But feel free to continue to scapegoat and pillorise him. We are 10 points adrift after all........oh sorry, i just checked... we are not even in the bottom 3. But most of the whingers on here dont like to let facts get in the way of a good scapegoating. Enjoy your moaning.
AI is not directly responsible for today's result, but he is responsible for so much during the season to date. So is Burton, for buying players who simply weren't fit or ready to play at this level.
Gamboa, very very good right back, doesn't get played. Pocognoli, vast improvement on any left back we've had at the club in a decade. Lescott, best centre back we've had at the club since god knows when. Varela, world class winger. Blanco very talented too but doesn't get played. Mulumbu and Yacob the basis of our 8th placed finish (aside from Lukaku), don't get played together. Ideye, player with great potential and 1 in 2 goal scoring record before he came here- just needs time.
Can I ask why you think we have a decent squad? Of the summer signings only Lescott & Gardner are anything ilke, & what I'd give to have Billy Jones, Morgan Amalfitano & Liam Ridgewell in our squad right now.
My God, the Irvine haters are really lapping it up tonight. Call yourselves Albion supporters ? Ye should be ashamed of yourselves. Ye know who ye are.. in fact we all do. Coming on here, spouting the same old drivel after every bad result. So predictable.
Yes, none of us were enamoured when AI got the job, myself included. In fact, i was once who voiced my disapproval at the time. However, an Albion manager deserves support while he is in the job.
Those of you coming on here day after day slagging the guy off are a f##king disgrace to the club. I am embarrassed to be associated with what i can only describe as a witch-hunt.
Just for a moment, look back at the Pre-Match thread where we were all suggesting what team should be picked. AI picked, more or less, what team the majority of us who posted on there asked for - an-attacking looking team, with Mulumbu restored to add defensive strength.
What happened - 3 horrific individual errors and we go 3-0 down.
Yeah yeah yeah, its all AI's fault. We know we know. FFs, would you lot ever get lost on some other forum. AI is the Albion manager, and we should be supporting him and the team, rather than this continous and sustained witch-hunt that has been disgraceful beyond belief.
As i said already, i didnt want AI as manager, and he was a poor appointment and for the life of me, i couldnt see how it was going to work, but you'd swear we were 10 points adrift at the bottom of the table tonight, the way some of the drama queens are going on and on, spouting their boring, repetitive drivel here. I aint going to name ye, but the usual suspects have been on here already this evening in all their glory.
I, for one, am a proud Baggie, and support the team and the manager through thick and thin, even when we are struggling badly.
And i notice all the whingers were loud in their support of more attacking teams being picked in the last few weeks. Well, what have you guys got to say tonight..... Valera was bloody awful today, Idye gets worse with every outing, and Berahino looks as if he wouldnt hit a bard door at the moment.
But yes, yes, i know...i should toe the line, like a blind fool. AI out AI out.. Well, no thanks, guys. AI needs our support while he is in the job, and if i am the only one on here who still stands by him, so be it.
But feel free to continue to scapegoat and pillorise him. We are 10 points adrift after all........oh sorry, i just checked... we are not even in the bottom 3. But most of the whingers on here dont like to let facts get in the way of a good scapegoating. Enjoy your moaning.
Gamboa, very very good right back, doesn't get played. Pocognoli, vast improvement on any left back we've had at the club in a decade. Lescott, best centre back we've had at the club since god knows when. Varela, world class winger. Blanco very talented too but doesn't get played. Mulumbu and Yacob the basis of our 8th placed finish (aside from Lukaku), don't get played together. Ideye, player with great potential and 1 in 2 goal scoring record before he came here- just needs time.I forgot to mention Downing and Kiely, who are also a major part of the problem. They've created an environment which is far too comfortable for the players, and breeds complacency (as evidenced by Foster's decline, and the persistent picking of favourites like Wisdom and Morrison). Burton needs to be gone too for recommending Irvine. The director of football and head coach roles are the most important in our club, and they can't be filled by the cheapest candidates. These appointments aren't helped by Peace not exactly being a "football" man. The players aren't the problem, so well done to the recruitment team this summer for that (minus Davidson and Baird)
We need a proper manager who will consistently play these, our best players, and get the best out of those who are being picked, in a suitable system. A manager capable of motivating these players and building up their confidence. Not a loser, a wimp, a meek surrenderer of a head coach, who probably sends out our players already beaten.
Still yet to see how Irvine is responsible for the free will and actions of individual players. I don't like him and don't want him managing our club, but it doesn't mean I'm blind to what was today's downfall.
My God, the Irvine haters are really lapping it up tonight. Call yourselves Albion supporters ? Ye should be ashamed of yourselves. Ye know who ye are.. in fact we all do. Coming on here, spouting the same old drivel after every bad result. So predictable.this is a forum mate people are allowed to make comments and put there views on, so please don't come on here telling people to go to other forums because they have a different opinion to you. For the sake of west Bromwich Albion Irvine should be sacked tonight, before it is to late. At the moment the whole club is a complete shambles and we are a laughing stock that is something i am not proud of.
Yes, none of us were enamoured when AI got the job, myself included. In fact, i was once who voiced my disapproval at the time. However, an Albion manager deserves support while he is in the job.
Those of you coming on here day after day slagging the guy off are a f##king disgrace to the club. I am embarrassed to be associated with what i can only describe as a witch-hunt.
Just for a moment, look back at the Pre-Match thread where we were all suggesting what team should be picked. AI picked, more or less, what team the majority of us who posted on there asked for - an-attacking looking team, with Mulumbu restored to add defensive strength.
What happened - 3 horrific individual errors and we go 3-0 down.
Yeah yeah yeah, its all AI's fault. We know we know. FFs, would you lot ever get lost on some other forum. AI is the Albion manager, and we should be supporting him and the team, rather than this continous and sustained witch-hunt that has been disgraceful beyond belief.
As i said already, i didnt want AI as manager, and he was a poor appointment and for the life of me, i couldnt see how it was going to work, but you'd swear we were 10 points adrift at the bottom of the table tonight, the way some of the drama queens are going on and on, spouting their boring, repetitive drivel here. I aint going to name ye, but the usual suspects have been on here already this evening in all their glory.
I, for one, am a proud Baggie, and support the team and the manager through thick and thin, even when we are struggling badly.
And i notice all the whingers were loud in their support of more attacking teams being picked in the last few weeks. Well, what have you guys got to say tonight..... Valera was bloody awful today, Idye gets worse with every outing, and Berahino looks as if he wouldnt hit a bard door at the moment.
But yes, yes, i know...i should toe the line, like a blind fool. AI out AI out.. Well, no thanks, guys. AI needs our support while he is in the job, and if i am the only one on here who still stands by him, so be it.
But feel free to continue to scapegoat and pillorise him. We are 10 points adrift after all........oh sorry, i just checked... we are not even in the bottom 3. But most of the whingers on here dont like to let facts get in the way of a good scapegoating. Enjoy your moaning.
So is he sacked tonight or after Stoke beat us ?
this is a forum mate people are allowed to make comments and put there views on, so please don't come on here telling people to go to other forums because they have a different opinion to you. For the sake of west Bromwich Albion Irvine should be sacked tonight, before it is to late. At the moment the whole club is a complete shambles and we are a laughing stock that is something i am not proud of.
Gamboa, very very good right back, doesn't get played. Pocognoli, vast improvement on any left back we've had at the club in a decade. Lescott, best centre back we've had at the club since god knows when. Varela, world class winger. Blanco very talented too but doesn't get played. Mulumbu and Yacob the basis of our 8th placed finish (aside from Lukaku), don't get played together. Ideye, player with great potential and 1 in 2 goal scoring record before he came here- just needs time.
We need a proper manager who will consistently play these, our best players, and get the best out of those who are being picked, in a suitable system. A manager capable of motivating these players and building up their confidence. Not a loser, a wimp, a meek surrenderer of a head coach, who probably sends out our players already beaten.
Unfortunately the earliest he is likely to be sacked is after the transfer window has closed.The thought of Irvine having a say in our January recruitment is terrifying. Terrible judge of a player as shown my Wisdom's persistent involvement over Gamboa, and he could sell Blanco, who trust me, is a quality player.
Not an Irvine hater, he doesn't impact on my life that much for me to hate him. No I am not a fan, never have been, never will be. For me he is out of his depth and should never have been appointed, he was and now the time has come for him and the rest of the coaching staff to go.
Yes, I do call myself an Albion fan and even though I am not a fan of Irvine for 90 minutes every game I back him and the club so if I choose to come on here (a forum for Albion fans to discuss/ debate/ moan etc) I will do regardless of whether its okay with you or not. I will be there Sunday and at West Ham as I have been all season regardless of whether he is still in charge or nor, hoping he won't be but expecting he will.
You choose to back him along with others which is your right, we others who prefer him out also have the right to that viewpoint without being abused for it.
Happy Christmas
So is he sacked tonight or after Stoke beat us ?
I forgot to mention Downing and Kiely, who are also a major part of the problem. They've created an environment which is far too comfortable for the players, and breeds complacency (as evidenced by Foster's decline, and the persistent picking of favourites like Wisdom and Morrison). Burton needs to be gone too for recommending Irvine. The director of football and head coach roles are the most important in our club, and they can't be filled by the cheapest candidates. These appointments aren't helped by Peace not exactly being a "football" man. The players aren't the problem, so well done to the recruitment team this summer for that (minus Davidson and Baird)
This post goes to the heart of what's wrong with the club, and can be corrected if Peace acts strongly. Unfortunately, as a non-footballing man, I'm not sure he'll be able to see this.
Someone send this and my above post to Peace, please.
Sent to JPThanks a lot mate, weight off my mind.
3 Individual Errors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1myCrymnt4
Substitutions are to change a game aren't they? A chance to do something different.
Can someone tell me why Irvine still persists with the Gamboa for Pocognoli substitution - then swapping him and Wisdom? That is the Pocognoli who is a damn sight better going forward than Wisdom.
I mean, how many goals or chances has this substitution created? For me, it offers absolutely nothing from whenever I've seen it.
It reaks of using a substitution because you have one available. No thought process whatsoever.
I've raised this point before, but pocognoli cannot complete 90 minutes.Well he has done on numerous occasions this season... Regardless, quite frankly I'd rather have a half-dead Pocognoli than Wisdom at left -back
Gamboa, very very good right back, doesn't get played. Pocognoli, vast improvement on any left back we've had at the club in a decade. Lescott, best centre back we've had at the club since god knows when. Varela, world class winger. Blanco very talented too but doesn't get played. Mulumbu and Yacob the basis of our 8th placed finish (aside from Lukaku), don't get played together. Ideye, player with great potential and 1 in 2 goal scoring record before he came here- just needs time.
We need a proper manager who will consistently play these, our best players, and get the best out of those who are being picked, in a suitable system. A manager capable of motivating these players and building up their confidence. Not a loser, a wimp, a meek surrenderer of a head coach, who probably sends out our players already beaten.
Interesting!Yes. Not sure how long the club have been interested has to do with anything... Yacob and Mulumbu are far more effective footballers.
So you'd play Mulumbu & Yacob over Craig Gardner, even though the FC have been after Gardner for 2 or 3 seasons, & he is probably the most EPL experienced midfield player in the Club?
Why is Christian Gamboa a better full back than Andre Wisdom?
Pocognoli is, to all intents & purposes our regular left back anyway, but is Jason Davidson better than Liam Ridgewell or even Chris Baird?
Is Silvestre Varela really "world class", personally I don't think so, & I think his wandering about the pitch today demonstrates why AI is reluctant to play him.
Brown Ideye, like most strikers, is a confidence player, at the moment, his confidence is lacking, not blaming him, it's just a series of events that's gone against him since joining WBA.
Personally, with a couple of exceptions, I'm not so sure we have a superior squad this season when compared to last. I think there's some foundation in AI's opinion that the squad just ain't good enough
My God, the Irvine haters are really lapping it up tonight. Call yourselves Albion supporters ? Ye should be ashamed of yourselves. Ye know who ye are.. in fact we all do. Coming on here, spouting the same old drivel after every bad result. So predictable.You say it is a disgrace to slag off Irvine, yet go on to slag off 3 players. What's the difference?
Yes, none of us were enamoured when AI got the job, myself included. In fact, i was once who voiced my disapproval at the time. However, an Albion manager deserves support while he is in the job.
Those of you coming on here day after day slagging the guy off are a f##king disgrace to the club. I am embarrassed to be associated with what i can only describe as a witch-hunt.
Just for a moment, look back at the Pre-Match thread where we were all suggesting what team should be picked. AI picked, more or less, what team the majority of us who posted on there asked for - an-attacking looking team, with Mulumbu restored to add defensive strength.
What happened - 3 horrific individual errors and we go 3-0 down.
Yeah yeah yeah, its all AI's fault. We know we know. FFs, would you lot ever get lost on some other forum. AI is the Albion manager, and we should be supporting him and the team, rather than this continous and sustained witch-hunt that has been disgraceful beyond belief.
As i said already, i didnt want AI as manager, and he was a poor appointment and for the life of me, i couldnt see how it was going to work, but you'd swear we were 10 points adrift at the bottom of the table tonight, the way some of the drama queens are going on and on, spouting their boring, repetitive drivel here. I aint going to name ye, but the usual suspects have been on here already this evening in all their glory.
I, for one, am a proud Baggie, and support the team and the manager through thick and thin, even when we are struggling badly.
And i notice all the whingers were loud in their support of more attacking teams being picked in the last few weeks. Well, what have you guys got to say tonight..... Valera was bloody awful today, Idye gets worse with every outing, and Berahino looks as if he wouldnt hit a bard door at the moment.
But yes, yes, i know...i should toe the line, like a blind fool. AI out AI out.. Well, no thanks, guys. AI needs our support while he is in the job, and if i am the only one on here who still stands by him, so be it.
But feel free to continue to scapegoat and pillorise him. We are 10 points adrift after all........oh sorry, i just checked... we are not even in the bottom 3. But most of the whingers on here dont like to let facts get in the way of a good scapegoating. Enjoy your moaning.
Yes. Not sure how long the club have been interested has to do with anything... Yacob and Mulumbu are far more effective footballers.
Because Gamboa is a very good footballer whereas Wisdom is clueless as soon he receives the ball... It's based on watching each player's performances.
The point was also that Irvine has a much better squad than last year, and Pocognoli is part of that.
Varela is world class, as evidenced by 26 caps, 5 goals and however many assists he has for Portugal, a nation ranked higher than England.
Part of the reason for Ideye's lack of confidence, a player who has been prolific everywhere he's been before now, was Irvine's lack of faith in him earlier in the season.
Irvine has never said the squad isn't good enough. In fact, before the end of the transfer window he stated his happiness in the squad at his disposal.
Frankly, your arguments are poor and nonsensical.
Lets just say my arguments are poor & nonsensical, & that yours are good so:I don't have any stats to hand, but Yacob and Mulumbu were the defensive axis that led to our highest placed Premier League finish in our history. Gardner does neither defending nor attacking particularly effectively.
Give me some evidence to show that Mulumbu & Yacob are far more effective footballers than Craig Gardner.
It might be useful to see some stats like:
Tackles made, passes completed, distance covered in a game, yellow cards, red cards.
I don't have any stats to hand, but Yacob and Mulumbu were the defensive axis that led to our highest placed Premier League finish in our history. Gardner does neither defending nor attacking particularly effectively.When was the last time Yacob and Mulumbu played together and we thought wow great partnership? Yacob hasn't been the same since that injury at Christmas a couple seasons back
When was the last time Yacob and Mulumbu played together and we thought wow great partnership? Yacob hasn't been the same since that injury at Christmas a couple seasons backThey haven't been given the chance- they've barely played together since the start of last season under Clarke, and even then they were much more competent than the current midfield of Morrison and Gardner. Think they deserve the chance to play together again.
They haven't been given the chance- they've barely played together since the start of last season under Clarke, and even then they were much more competent than the current midfield of Morrison and Gardner. Think they deserve the chance to play together again.Certain games I think they need to be played. But then I can see fans moaning Irvine is too defensive if he played those 2 too many fans want a reason to moan and slag him off
Certain games I think they need to be played. But then I can see fans moaning Irvine is too defensive if he played those 2 too many fans want a reason to moan and slag him offThe great thing about playing two defensive midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 is it allows you to play three attacking midfielders (Varela, Sessegnon, Blanco) and attacking fullbacks (Gamboa and Pocognoli), making for a much more balanced side. Sadly Irvine is hugely lacking in terms of judging ability and tactical awareness.
Yes. Not sure how long the club have been interested has to do with anything... Yacob and Mulumbu are far more effective footballers.
Because Gamboa is a very good footballer whereas Wisdom is clueless as soon he receives the ball... It's based on watching each player's performances.
The point was also that Irvine has a much better squad than last year, and Pocognoli is part of that.
Varela is world class, as evidenced by 26 caps, 5 goals and however many assists he has for Portugal, a nation ranked higher than England.
Part of the reason for Ideye's lack of confidence, a player who has been prolific everywhere he's been before now, was Irvine's lack of faith in him earlier in the season.
Irvine has never said the squad isn't good enough. In fact, before the end of the transfer window he stated his happiness in the squad at his disposal.
Frankly, your arguments are poor and nonsensical.
The great thing about playing two defensive midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 is it allows you to play three attacking midfielders (Varela, Sessegnon, Blanco) and attacking fullbacks (Gamboa and Pocognoli), making for a much more balanced side. Sadly Irvine is hugely lacking in terms of judging ability and tactical awareness.But again that team would only suit certain games. You couldn't go and play that v Chelsea for example as we would get torn apart. I do wonder if Blanco is too lightweight in training and getting bullied off the ball hence him not being played - but that it for a different topic
We had plenty of chances today, should have scored a couple of them. Irvine didn't do a lot wrong today, just one of them days where luck wasn't on our side. Keep the faith.
But again that team would only suit certain games. You couldn't go and play that v Chelsea for example as we would get torn apart. I do wonder if Blanco is too lightweight in training and getting bullied off the ball hence him not being played - but that it for a different topicIt's no more lightweight than the team which played today- it would have had Yacob in for Morrison! And with Mulumbu playing deeper alongside Yacob.
Personally think just as important as Irvine going is getting in a strong manager not swayed by any groups or old pals act.Agree with that, absolutely imperative.
also just read that it was 32 minutes before a tackle was made by an albion player,surely that's wrong.
Rumour on the Twitter is that there is a board meeting tomorrow.
However me being the skeptical person I am suspect there is not a meeting or if there is it's nothing to do with Irvine.
My gut is telling me Irvine is here until the end of jan at the very least, sadly.
Something tweeted by one of those stupid ITK wannabee accounts wasn't it?And the small matter of West Ham away
If Irvine was going he would have gone tonight - otherwise he's here for Stoke and more than likely Gateshead.
Mind you Clarke was booted out on a sunday
Something tweeted by one of those stupid ITK wannabee accounts wasn't it?I don't think so, not much point sacking him tonight when we're playing again in 48 hours... If we lose to stoke he'll go then
If Irvine was going he would have gone tonight - otherwise he's here for Stoke and more than likely Gateshead.
Nothing at Stoke and he will be gone No Doubt. And also give Anichebe the ultimatum .Either shape up or ship out , never known such an unfit player since Daryl Burgess and Matyn Benett
Yes, it must be wrong.
62 minutes would have been most likely.
But yes, I think your statement is correct. A Mulumbu tackle on Nasri who then spent a few minutes rolling about on the floor.
We played better against Man City and were in the game for the whole match last season under Pepe Mel, with a worse team and away from home (lost 2-1). Says it all.The point I was making of the team you mentioned attacking wise Varela Sess Blanco Brown/Saido is that how many of those would do any sort of tracking back or defending - I'm not saying it's wrong I'm saying different team needs to be played depending on who we play
We had plenty of chances today, should have scored a couple of them. Irvine didn't do a lot wrong today, just one of them days where luck wasn't on our side. Keep the faith.yes berahino the culprit on 2 occasions elected to shoot from tight angles when others were crying out for a pass in the box greedy git
The point I was making of the team you mentioned attacking wise Varela Sess Blanco Brown/Saido is that how many of those would do any sort of tracking back or defending - I'm not saying it's wrong I'm saying different team needs to be played depending on who we play
Also we lost 3-1 last season at Man City but agree the team that played last season was worse than today's
We actually lost 3-2 at home to Man City last season.
The point I was making of the team you mentioned attacking wise Varela Sess Blanco Brown/Saido is that how many of those would do any sort of tracking back or defending - I'm not saying it's wrong I'm saying different team needs to be played depending on who we play
Also we lost 3-1 last season at Man City but agree the team that played last season was worse than today's
Please can we stop mentioning Pulis!!!Don't worry, he wouldn't work with Pinky and Perky anyway.
The fact is, some people at the club are paid well to have a contingency plan in the event a new head coach is needed. It would appear a shake up on the coaching side and recruitment side is needed (two years of decline). Perhaps the summer recruitment changes will take time to filter through to us signing better players (or at least players with committment). The coaching side does appear to be stale and this could be a case of the players simply needing different 'voices' away from the familiar. The players after all are slipping into the same mistakes week after week and have been for a long time. It suggests to me the players are allowed to make mistakes. A little bit of fear never hurt anyone and perhaps fear that some of the more comfortable players are not irreplaceable might help. if possibly in Jan, I'd move on a few players, namely Anichrbe, Samaras, Davidson and Baird. You could replace Anichebe/ Samaras with one strong, hungry forward from a lower league. The squad mentality and character needs a shake up. We need one or two meaner characters in my opinion. Unfortunately for AI I think he's missed the opportunity to endear himself to fans with some positive performances against the better teams like yesterday so I wouldnt expect him to be the one to shake up the squad (not sure he'd be the man i'd choose for this anyway). In hindsight it appears AI could've worked as assistant to a stronger character.
The problem is that if we sack Irvine and Kelly, then the old players mates Keith & Dean will take charge for a least a month before we get a new man in. I am sure that JP hasn't got anyone immediate lined up, so we will be stuck with Downing and Keily for that time and it will be too late for the new man to be able to save us from relegation. The mistakes JP made in the summer will come back to haunt us!I'd be horrified if JP and co hadn't been looking elsewhere this time around , it's not as if we have had a good run under Irvine in the last 3 months . I'm fairly confident they will have a few names in mind , as for Downing I'd back him to do a better job than the current bloke in charge.
I'd be horrified if JP and co hadn't been looking elsewhere this time around , it's not as if we have had a good run under Irvine in the last 3 months . I'm fairly confident they will have a few names in mind , as for Downing I'd back him to do a better job than the current bloke in charge.
I'd be horrified if JP and co hadn't been looking elsewhere this time around , it's not as if we have had a good run under Irvine in the last 3 months . I'm fairly confident they will have a few names in mind , as for Downing I'd back him to do a better job than the current bloke in charge.
What about JOINT-ASSISTANT HEAD COACH Rob Kelly, people tend to forget about him.
Downing needs to go with Irvine and so does Keily. No point sacking one man when it'll have no real effect.
What about JOINT-ASSISTANT HEAD COACH Rob Kelly, people tend to forget about him.
If they sack Irvine it's highly unlikely the rest will go straight away other than Kelly , JP won't leave us rudderless and Downing did a good enough job last Winter in the short term.
Downing needs to go with Irvine and so does Keily. No point sacking one man when it'll have no real effect.
The great thing about playing two defensive midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 is it allows you to play three attacking midfielders (Varela, Sessegnon, Blanco) and attacking fullbacks (Gamboa and Pocognoli), making for a much more balanced side. Sadly Irvine is hugely lacking in terms of judging ability and tactical awareness.could not agree more Yacob and Mulumbu playing in front of back four allows the likes of Verala, Sess and AN other to get forward and i mean forward to support a decent lone striker when we can get one, and get your full backs playing a bit further up the pitch, people only slaughter Irvine for playing defensive midfielders because he sets them all out that way so consequently none of them support the striker apart from Sess occasionly
If they sack Irvine it's highly unlikely the rest will go straight away other than Kelly , JP won't leave us rudderless and Downing did a good enough job last Winter in the short term.
Burton would get the gig in caretaker position rather than Downing if it was up to me.I suggested that Yesterday but he has been out of first team football a while , don't want Malcolm Crosby situation like at Blues ;D
If they sack Irvine it's highly unlikely the rest will go straight away other than Kelly , JP won't leave us rudderless and Downing did a good enough job last Winter in the short term.
They all need to go, they are all responsible.We have to be so careful of a Terry Conner situation though , ideally a new man and his staff will be ready to come in straight away not weeks after.
I'd be happy to see Darren Moore and James Shan in charge on a caretaker basis with Lescott helping out until we get a new coaching team in.
We have to be so careful of a Terry Conner situation though , ideally a new man and his staff will be ready to come in straight away not weeks after.
We already have a Terry Connor situation with Downing and Kiely part of the furniture.But they did get points over Xmas which others have failed with at this level , someone eat your last mince pie mate ? ;D
But they did get points over Xmas which others have failed with at this level , someone eat your last mince pie mate ? ;D
Back to Irvine , why hasn't he gone yet ?
Don't like mince pies mate :DI agree with the clear out but only if a full new coaching team is ready to come in not weeks away , i posted Yesterday we need a Manager/HC not a mate which is what appears to have happened again and can be seen in even the new players form now.
It needs a clearout, no time is a good time to do it but to keep them around just creates the same issues as before. That places needs freshening up, its stale, comfortable and too many of the players thinking Irvine & co are "nice" are way too complacent.
I agree with the clear out but only if a full new coaching team is ready to come in not weeks away , i posted Yesterday we need a Manager/HC not a mate which is what appears to have happened again and can be seen in even the new players form now.
Please can we stop mentioning Pulis!!!Short term he would be exactly what is needed , his Palace side were hard working and good on the eye .
Please can we stop mentioning Pulis!!!He is proven at this level and what he did at Palace we could certainly use right now. He won't kiss up to the players and we'd be a different team from the first game.He isn't my first choice but we could and have done a lot worse.
He is proven at this level and what he did at Palace we could certainly use right now. He won't kiss up to the players and we'd be a different team from the first game.He isn't my first choice but we could and have done a lot worse.
Christ almighty he is still here. The head coach and his merry men coach this lot, indivual errors whatever for me the leader carrys the can. I suspect he's still here because we are not in the bottom three. Just seen him on sky and he knows his days are numbered . We had chances yesterday on the back of Man City going easy on us in the secondAgree. For first time he looked like he knew he was done. Didn't look like even he believed the 'We gave them a game second half' nonsense.
Yes we did. i'd love to be fly on the wall of JP's office right now. I can only imagine the names being mulled over when he eventually pulls the plug on AI.
Yes we did. i'd love to be fly on the wall of JP's office right now. I can only imagine the names being mulled over when he eventually pulls the plug on AI.
Agree. For first time he looked like he knew he was done. Didn't look like even he believed the 'We gave them a game second half' nonsense.
Be interesting to see how the players who have sang his praises react when h finally gets the boot, especially chief sycophant Gardner, think they'll have to take his boot laces off him.
This silly little experiment has not worked. No doubt Irvine was a cheap appointment and was ultra willing and enthusiastic. He must have thought he'd won the lottery by getting a Premier League top job. I don't blame him for taking the job.Experiment is exactly what this appointment is, we are a qualified prem club with 5 years experience yet the club treat and trust the most important part of the club like some cheap joke. we've made it passed all the exams to get here so stop wetting around employing someone without the required skills and experience needed to take us forward. its like asking the stewardess to fly the plane.
I hope Peace has had a good hard look at himself and realised what a stupid appointment this was and is now about to make the kind of decision that will save this club. It's up to him now. Get this right and we stay up and prosper. Get it wrong again and will go down and who knows how far we can slip.
I haven't posted in this thread lately as I had nothing new to say. The unconvincing victory over Villa changed nothing for me, and the other results have just reinforced that it was a mistake to appoint Irvine.brilliant idea lets sack Irvine, palace employ Irvine= 1 relagation spot taken.
With Warnock being sacked by Palace today, it'll be interesting to see if it makes Irvine's position more or less safe. It means there's another club wanting to appoint a Premier league-quality manager/coach, so would Peace want to be in a position having to compete with another club or would it make him back off from sacking Irvine for fear of the potential spectre of whoever our first choice candidate might be choosing Palace over us?
At least Palace have had the guts at this point in the year to call time on something that wasn't working for them.
Experiment is exactly what this appointment is, we are a qualified prem club with 5 years experience yet the club treat and trust the most important part of the club like some cheap joke. we've made it passed all the exams to get here so stop wetting around employing someone without the required skills and experience needed to take us forward. its like asking the stewardess to fly the plane.
Pepe Mel was an experiment, Clarke was an experiment, most of our appointments are. We rarely go for someone with vast experience. No way would Pulis come here, we had Ashworth here when we appointed Roy and he had to take a lot of convincing. I know I'm in the minority but I'd rather us stick with Irvine for the time being and see if our form can pick up.
I might be wrong but didnt Roy actively seek the job.
The convincing was in his own mind about his freshness for a job after leaving Liverpool.
Roy since has said that he enjoyed working in the set up and by all accounts as a very good relationship with JP.
I do agree though the appointments of RDM, Clarke and Mel were all experiments that either worked for a while but didnt work at all. Like you I do doubt that Pulis would want to relinquish some control that our system does but hes also said to be interested in the Brighton role which shows he obviously is desperate for a management return.
Mind you Clarke was booted out on a sunday
We actually lost 3-2 at home to Man City last season.We were talking about the game under Mel at City not the home game
might be utter rubbish but there's a link here
https://twitter.com/_footytalk_
make of it what you will
There's a 90% chance they are right! I guessPorto, the club that froze Varela out?
Palace seem to be after Vitor Pereira, the former Porto boss. Wonder if Varela can have a word....
might be utter rubbish but there's a link here
https://twitter.com/_footytalk_
make of it what you will
Any chance of elaborating for those of us who dont have a twitter account.
Any chance of elaborating for those of us who dont have a twitter account.The "footy talk" link should tell you all you need to know. ;)
Porto, the club that froze Varela out?
Any chance of elaborating for those of us who dont have a twitter account.
You don't need a Twitter account to view a Twitter account, only if you want to post. If you click the link you will go straight to it
If he does go just who do we get..?..there seems to be a real dirth of any managerial talent available. Surely the likes of Pullis and Jol are only short term fixes...isnt it time we found someone who is around for the journey....
Seems that both McLaren and Southgate are on the Palace target list. I'd be gutted if either of those gave up their current posts to go to Palace ahead of us.
It's not ahead of us though is it? We don't have a vacancy ...................... unfortunately.
Just don't know how i want us to do this afternoon. Obviously want us to win, but we could be in another period of manager hiatus or stick with Alan for an extended period depending on the outcome :'(
It's a horrible situation isn't it? I'm 41 years old and I've seen this scenario many, many times at the Albion. One thing I do know is when you get to this stage the change has to come, I have never, ever known any manager / coach turn things round from this sort of position and that's not putting a slant on anything, that's the truth. That said I've never known a really unpopular appointment like Irvine work out either, he was doomed before he started really and Peace has to take it on the chin for this one, stupid, stupid appointment and either arrogant or naive.
We may win this game and delay the inevitable it's perfectly possible, but it will not disguise the fact that the club needs change, proper change.
You're absolutely right. As soon as he was announced there was an almighty uproar and it's continued ever since, with around 80% of the fans still wanting him gone.
I think JP's decision to appoint AI was a little of both. He wanted to show he's the boss, but also thought someone knew / unproven could work wonders. It's backfired and a big change is needed, not just AI but the coaching staff too.
If we can spend 10 million on a player then we can do the same getting in the right coachI totally agree and 22 million on 3 players if you count Sess and Vic
If we can spend 10 million on a player then we can do the same getting in the right coach
To an extent I can see Peace's point. Far too many chairmen have backed managers who are serial failures, so there is a lot of merit in appointing young up and coming managers like Howe, Southgate, Rosler, Robinson etc, even Clarke and Di Matteo at the time. All of them will be learning from their experiences from their first foray into management.
But that's not the same as doing it cheaply, which is what Irvine's appointment was. At 55 he is not up and coming, and had already failed twice as a number 1 at a lower level and with no experience in the PL. If Peace had gone for someone like Howe or Rosler and it had failed, then it would have been far easier to accept.
However, we are a proven established PL club and we need to start behaving like one, rather than going for the cheap option just for the sake of it.
There may be an element of truth in that but I personally believe that he was mainly appointed because of other potential candidates not accepting the strict conditions that JP applies. Remember Irvine was apparently approached as I understand and hadn't applied for the vacancy and if true would indicate that there had been breakdowns in pursuing other candidates for whatever reason and hence the subsequent spin from the club.In other words - a panic appointment, and one that has backfired miserably. JP isn't going to change tact and appoint a manager rather than a coach. If he did then he would also have to get rid of Burtom and Day. I am afraid we are lumbered with Irvine whatever the consequences. JP has made a rod for his own back.
Why has he returned to that midfield!?
I've got this horrid feeling he'll still be here next week despite the result today.
JP won't want a new man In before the transfer window closes.
He is out tonight no way will he be in charge for West Ham, no two ways about it for me he is a going to.
He is out tonight no way will he be in charge for West Ham, no two ways about it for me he is a going to.
No doubt certain people will be on here saying what a good side Stoke are!
No doubt certain people will be on here saying what a good side Stoke are!
Its Peace and Burton that should be leaving.
Has anyone been listening to 5 Live this afternoon? The media are already sharpening their knives to give us a bashing when we inevitably sack this clown. Accusing the fans of having a sense of "entitlement" and implying we should be happy with a boss of Irvine's calibre.
Whatever, he has to go this evening.
The appointment is still laughable when you think about it!
Those will be the same idiots who thought we were mad to sack Clarke. They know nothing about our club.
He will get the West Ham game. Given our caretakers will be Kiely and Downing and we wont get a manager til February, its not going to be enjoyable.
Seeing Burnley level at City where they've given it a right go, compared to us just caving in at home to City, just shows our lack of fight. Leicester leading at Hull. Clubs around us are showing fight and bottle - we are hurtling downwards without a whimper.
It hurts.
There will be riots if that's the case
It isnt just irvine that needs to go though. The problem isnt solved by sacking him. Theres 3 men there that have to go!!! Irvine,kiely and downing
Those will be the same idiots who thought we were mad to sack Clarke. They know nothing about our club.
You're getting sacked in the morning.
Bye bye Alan F****** Irvine.
Nice guy but out of his depth. Needs to go tonight.Agreed, gave it a shot and wasn't up for it. Nice bloke just the wrong choice.
Its takenus > 4 weeks to appoint our last 3head coaches, i see no reason to think this will be different.
Complete clear out including Burton tonight, JP gets to stay for obvious reasons. Big Dave has caretaker. We would all support this
anyone know why we are reluctant to bring martin jol as head coach
No we bloody wouldn't. Not a time for a novice, regardless of his club connections.
No we bloody wouldn't. Not a time for a novice, regardless of his club connections.
It matters not who is "head coach/manager", we have a group of players who are performing to the level that can really be expected of them.
It matters not who is "head coach/manager", we have a group of players who are performing to the level that can really be expected of them.
It matters not who is "head coach/manager", we have a group of players who are performing to the level that can really be expected of them.
martin jol has worked with a technical directer in the past
I've just sent several e-mails to the enquiries@ address.... I suggest everyone just bombard the bloody system and give JP some earache.
Unless you think everything is peachy of course.
Did that last week. And the week before
16th in the table, we're not much better than that are we really. We played well today, just not having the luck.
If that is the case why doesn't Irvine make wholesale changes?Because the squad isn't up to it?
I wouldn't want Jol, another nice guy and been out a job a while now.
Give me someone to russle a few feathers and put some players in there place, not scared to drop players because of the clique.
16th in the table, we're not much better than that are we really. We played well today, just not having the luck.I agree about the luck but were stoke any better than us, not in my opinion. we should be better than 16th with this squad the wrong players played over and over again ,players like wisdom and Morrison who are out of form picked time and time again. we needed specialist defensive midfielders today yet he picked 4 players who are neither, in fact 3 of them have been here too long.
It matters not who is "head coach/manager", we have a group of players who are performing to the level that can really be expected of them.
WBA in Devon, yeah I'd take Big Dave as caretaker for a bit.
Can't think of a better galvanising forces in the short term. At least until 'due process' or whatever it's called gets Tim Sherwood in......
These boys need some elastic bands round their nuts and I think Tim would do it....
Because the squad isn't up to it?
Make wholesale changes to weaken the side further?
Because the squad isn't up to it?
Make wholesale changes to weaken the side further?
Because the squad isn't up to it?how do you know it weakens the side further without trying it. gamboa should get a full game over wisdom just to see if its better, blanco could get a game over dorrans and Morrison who've been poor all season.whens the last time we started a game with two strikers on the pitch. to keep sticking to the same formula that's failing every week is madness. we may as well carry a squad of 20 players if your not willing to give several players a chance.
Make wholesale changes to weaken the side further?
Aren't we though?!? The likes of Wisdom starting, Yacob and Mulumbu not. Saido on the bench. We can do much better than this and we are better!
Aren't we though?!? The likes of Wisdom starting, Yacob and Mulumbu not. Saido on the bench. We can do much better than this and we are better!
Yacob was poor for a lot of games last season, we were better off playing with 10 men sometimes. Ideye got given a chance like many fans were asking for. Gamboa was playing in the Norwegian League last season but is deemed by some a better right back than a player who's played Premier League football for Liverpool and a season in the Championship for a good Derby team.
Yacob was poor for a lot of games last season, we were better off playing with 10 men sometimes. Ideye got given a chance like many fans were asking for. Gamboa was playing in the Norwegian League last season but is deemed by some a better right back than a player who's played Premier League football for Liverpool and a season in the Championship for a good Derby team.So, what's your answer to our current predicament then? Do nothing and hope for some luck?
Saido is a case in point. A bloke who prior to last season has 14 league two appearances, 8 league one appearances, and 10 Championship appearances is the bloke that we are relying on to score the goals to keep us up. I do not mean to put him down, he is a prospect, but he hasn't scored in 9 (?) matches. He may get his million pound transfer in January and will no doubt warm the bench for a side aiming to get in the Europa Cup.
So, what's your answer to our current predicament then? Do nothing and hope for some luck?
My answer would be to back Irvine in the January transfer window to get some quality in and get rid of some deadwood. Will that happen? Probably not.
My answer would be to back Irvine in the January transfer window to get some quality in and get rid of some deadwood. Will that happen? Probably not.......and the deadwood is?
My answer would be to back Irvine in the January transfer window to get some quality in and get rid of some deadwood. Will that happen? Probably not.
My answer would be to back Irvine in the January transfer window to get some quality in and get rid of some deadwood. Will that happen? Probably not.
My answer would be to back Irvine in the January transfer window to get some quality in and get rid of some deadwood. Will that happen? Probably not.wasn't he backed in the summer, or are we saying none of the players bought in was anything to do with Irvine.
how do you know it weakens the side further without trying it. gamboa should get a full game over wisdom just to see if its better, blanco could get a game over dorrans and Morrison who've been poor all season.whens the last time we started a game with two strikers on the pitch. to keep sticking to the same formula that's failing every week is madness. we may as well carry a squad of 20 players if your not willing to give several players a chance.
Enough. Witless and clueless in the second half. We need to give the new manager a running start by appointing in time for Gateshead and Hull. They also need a couple of weeks to prepare for the transfer window as we need to move on some players and maybe sell Berahino. Big changes required and a fresh impetus.what he said, spot on all round
I will be happy when we start with a midfield that doesn't feature four identical players - we need Mulumbu and Jacob back.
I hope Irvine gets his job back at Everton. He's seems a nice chap; but sadly massively out of his depth in the Premier League
......and the deadwood is?
Morrison, brunt, Dorrans, Olson. They all need to go. They're part of this boys club along with Kiely and Downing.
If we can get rid of Downing and Kiely and get someone in who can actually man manage, some of the above players may be able to do a job.
The way I see it we are doing a wolves and it's only going to end one way unless major change happens quickly.
To be fair, I don't work with the players seven days a week, and therefore take it on an element of trust that they pick the best players available for any given situation (after all, their living depends upon it).
When was the last time that we had two strikers available who offered something different. One of the things that I have been consistantly discussing is our lack of fire power up front. We don't have options available to us. Berahino and Ideye appear to be from the same mould, Anichebe is rarely fit and can never be classed as a consistant goalscorer, Samaras has featured when available but doesn't look like the answer.... and then where do you go?
Our squad is probably one of the best that we have had in the modern era and there is better competition for places and when injuries and suspensions kick in I doubt we will be as hammered as in previous years, but we are still only a finish around 14th at best side and no manager alone will change that.
To be fair, I don't work with the players seven days a week, and therefore take it on an element of trust that they pick the best players available for any given situation (after all, their living depends upon it).Wildly optimistic. 20th is more likely than 14th
When was the last time that we had two strikers available who offered something different. One of the things that I have been consistantly discussing is our lack of fire power up front. We don't have options available to us. Berahino and Ideye appear to be from the same mould, Anichebe is rarely fit and can never be classed as a consistant goalscorer, Samaras has featured when available but doesn't look like the answer.... and then where do you go?
Our squad is probably one of the best that we have had in the modern era and there is better competition for places and when injuries and suspensions kick in I doubt we will be as hammered as in previous years, but we are still only a finish around 14th at best side and no manager alone will change that.
Because the squad isn't up to it?No mate, you're wrong. Our squad is capable of a comfortable mid-table to top-half finish. Gamboa > Wisdom, Varela > Brunt, Mulumbu and Yacob > Morrison and Gardner, Blanco > Dorrans. Over the course of a season these changes would take us from being in a relegation scrap to having a comfortable, enjoyable season at mid-table or the top half, playing exciting football and getting the odd result against a top team. Irvine and our coaching team just aren't picking them.
Make wholesale changes to weaken the side further?
My answer would be to back Irvine in the January transfer window to get some quality in and get rid of some deadwood. Will that happen? Probably not.But he doesnt have a say in WHO we buy!
You have to get rid of Irvine now. The supporters will simply not accept Irvine getting money to spend
No mate, you're wrong. Our squad is capable of a comfortable mid-table to top-half finish. Gamboa > Wisdom, Varela > Brunt, Mulumbu and Yacob > Morrison and Gardner, Blanco > Dorrans. Over the course of a season these changes would take us from being in a relegation scrap to having a comfortable, enjoyable season at mid-table or the top half, playing exciting football and getting the odd result against a top team. Irvine and our coaching team just aren't picking them.Your opinion which is based on nothing. (Oh sorry, I forget you watch a lot of Ukranian football on streams ::))
To be fair, I don't work with the players seven days a week, and therefore take it on an element of trust that they pick the best players available for any given situation (after all, their living depends upon it).I agree 14th is about what we can achieve at best with this squad but he never wants to use the other players who are competing for a starting spot, for instance wisdom who gets a game no matter how poor he plays, he was guilty of poor positioning on both goals today and offers very little going forward. this isn't a witchunt on wisdom just using it as an example of irvines reluctance to try something different.
When was the last time that we had two strikers available who offered something different. One of the things that I have been consistantly discussing is our lack of fire power up front. We don't have options available to us. Berahino and Ideye appear to be from the same mould, Anichebe is rarely fit and can never be classed as a consistant goalscorer, Samaras has featured when available but doesn't look like the answer.... and then where do you go?
Our squad is probably one of the best that we have had in the modern era and there is better competition for places and when injuries and suspensions kick in I doubt we will be as hammered as in previous years, but we are still only a finish around 14th at best side and no manager alone will change that.
wasn't he backed in the summer, or are we saying none of the players bought in was anything to do with Irvine.
If anyone thinks AI (or the new man in charge) will be given money in January, you're clearly new to the club. We do not buy in January, we only sell. This is especially so after spending over £10m in the summer. JP will say we have the necessary players to stay in the league, even if we sell Saido.
Your opinion which is based on nothing. (Oh sorry, I forget you watch a lot of Ukranian football on streams ::))
We lost a lot of players in the Summer so we were basically in a rush to get players in and some we signed are not good enough for Premier League football it seems. I doubt Irvine would have had a lot to do with some of the foreign signings we made like Blanco.You said in another thread
Your opinion which is based on nothing. (Oh sorry, I forget you watch a lot of Ukranian football on streams ::))Alright mate. To be frank I've got better things to do now and there's no point debating with you because you're set in your views and you'll never change them. Irvine will be gone soon with any luck anyway at which point it will be irrelevant.
Agree 100%. I can't recall this amount of animosity towards any Head Coach in my lifetime (Perhaps with the exception of Bobby Gould!).Not animosity my view.As I think he is a good coach.But JP's gambling is going wrong yet again.
He isn't going nowhere yet....expect him to be in charge for the Hammers game.
And your opinion is based on ................................?
The fact that they can not get into a West Brom side at the minute and their pedigree based on the stats provided (plus the short glimpses I have seen when they have played)
You said in another thread
"let Irvine have the transfer window"
now your saying he doesnt have a lot to do with transfers!
Which is it?
Alright mate. To be frank I've got better things to do now and there's no point debating with you because you're set in your views and you'll never change them. Irvine will be gone soon with any luck anyway at which point it will be irrelevant.
EDIT:Think I'll take a break from this site until Irvine's sacked.
Well he'll be able to identify what we'll need now he's worked with the squad for a few months.Mate everyone that watched the Albion over the past 2 months can tell you what we need! Like us Irvine wont get a say in who we get!
that's because Irvine has the same opinion as you, doesn't mean it is correct.
That is not meant as a knock at you.
Well he'll be able to identify what we'll need now he's worked with the squad for a few months.But he is supposed to be a head coach and his job is to get the best out of the players provided to him. The director of football and the scouting team are tasked with bringing the players in.
Your view is the manager is the problem and are happy to be disrespectful to the bloke. My view is the problem is deeper than that and the manager is somewhat irrelevant. The Premier League is ####
that's because Irvine has the same opinion as you, doesn't mean it is correct.
That is not meant as a knock at you.
They probably aren't that good in fairness, its unlikely we have brilliant players not making our squad when the alternative is blanco isn't very good.
The fact that they can not get into a West Brom side at the minute and their pedigree based on the stats provided (plus the short glimpses I have seen when they have played)
I agree the problem is deeper, however as soon as we appointed Irvine in my opinion we were up against it big style.
Whilst I hope Irvine is sacked as soon as possible, Downing and Kiely must go immediately.
I'd like to be proven wrong (which is another difference between me and some of our support) but that doesn't mean I will be.
So far, Irvine has played and integrated pretty much all of the players that were brought in over the summer at some point. Of those that continue to not get picked regularly, what have they done to warrant a first team start?
Your view is the manager is the problem and are happy to be disrespectful to the bloke. My view is the problem is deeper than that and the manager is somewhat irrelevant. The Premier League is ####I was about to take a break but would like to clarify something: I like Irvine as a person. Genuinely. He seems like a decent bloke. I was at the game today, and thankfully most of the abuse he got wasn't personal, just generic booing at the end, but I felt very, very sorry for him. I also reckon he's a decent coach, and would welcome him remaining at the club as a coach under a proper head coach with "managerial" qualities, e.g. good judgement of players' ability, tactical knowledge, motivating, etc. If you go through my posts you'll see that I've said this before, and I doubt you'll find anything offensive directed at him.
I am afraid your opinion is as worthless as the the man you continue to 'worship' based on the fact that he has a 23% winning stat record and dropping like a stone. That is fact not a myth!!
We were up against it because an element of our support would never accept Irvine and they would rather have a man in charge who, arguably, was in even less of a position to influence the club. What is ironic is that they bemoan the treatment of Pepe Mel but have been even more disrespectful to Irvine (and Kiely/Downing).
I agree my opinion is worthless, as is yours, at the moment the only ones that count are the boards and, whilst you may not like it, Alan Irvine's. I don't "worship" anyone at the Albion anymore. The last person that I probably did was Bob Taylor :P.
I have said on here we have to many players who have been here 2 long . Brunt morrison dorrans . 3 key midfield players who are pedestrian at this level . To add to today's performance you can add Baird . This squad apart from lescott pognoli and foster is very much a championship squad and that's were we are heading . So ok sack him but what difference is a new manager going to make
How long after the Cardiff match was Clarke sacked? I'm constantly refreshing various sites for news.
How long after the Cardiff match was Clarke sacked? I'm constantly refreshing various sites for news.4 hours
I neglected to join in with any of the anti-Irvine chants today because it is not his fault. Granted he is hugely out of his depth baby zebra trying to cross a raging river, but my anger lies with the halfwits who made this truly awful appointment. That said, taking off our best player was a pretty stupid decision.
Pulis or Sherwood as MANAGER with their own staff .
But it will still be a head coach position appointing Aidy boothroyd with Beavis and Butt-head still as the backroom staff.
Please Please Mr Peace give us supporters someone (with his backroom team) we can
get behind. We have the second loudest fans in the premier league give us something to sing about or we will go down.
I have said on here we have to many players who have been here 2 long . Brunt morrison dorrans . 3 key midfield players who are pedestrian at this level . To add to today's performance you can add Baird . This squad apart from lescott pognoli and foster is very much a championship squad and that's were we are heading . So ok sack him but what difference is a new manager going to make
A new manager can make all the difference. Crystal Palace have looked very much like a side going down either side of the Pulls reign. It shows that a decent manager can make a big difference.Totally agree. Look at he Blues as well. It would help if Beavis and butt head were sacked along with Irvine though and the new man had his own staff. Oh and what about Burton going as well? £10 million for Ideye Brown need I say more
Morrison and brunt were 2 of the best players today.Sorry but no they were not.
Morrison and brunt were 2 of the best players today.
Give him a couple of games to turn it around, the players are still working their socks off for him. Still don't know how we didn't win today's game, just like the QPR game which we should have won too.
Give him a couple of games to turn it around, the players are still working their socks off for him. Still don't know how we didn't win today's game, just like the QPR game which we should have won too.
Give him a couple of games to turn it around, the players are still working their socks off for him. Still don't know how we didn't win today's game, just like the QPR game which we should have won too.
I'd keep him for sure, I don't want Dingle Keith in charge until the end of the season....that's not the choice though is it? They both need to go, with a new man in charge.
Time for the fans to be assertive. Chants of Downing and Kelly need to ring around the Hawthorns. There's a need to steamroller the BBC and let them know we deserve better than the garbage served up. BBC now nothing beyond Liverpool FC. WBA fans have been way too passive up to know. Irvine get your eyebrows plucked and hair dyed you've got enough money.Unfortunately, I agree that's what it has come to if he isn't sacked tonight.
Give him a couple of games to turn it around, the players are still working their socks off for him. Still don't know how we didn't win today's game, just like the QPR game which we should have won too.
Give him a couple of games to turn it around, the players are still working their socks off for him. Still don't know how we didn't win today's game, just like the QPR game which we should have won too.Sorry but they are not working their socks off, they can't pass, have no pace and create nothing. They look lost and desperate for leadership. The sycophants who play every week, sing his praises because they know they will be vulnerable when he goes.
Give him a couple of games to turn it around, the players are still working their socks off for him. Still don't know how we didn't win today's game, just like the QPR game which we should have won too.Easy
Honestly expected him to be gone tonight, absolute disgraceful performance against a poor Stoke side. Irvine picked the team so he should held accountable for the most powder puff central midfield we could have fielded. If his tactics were the hit and hope we got then he should be accountable for that. The coaching staff already in place when he arrived have not improved this team since they have been here and should be getting the golden handshake with him tomorrow.And with every game that goes by, more potential points are wasted, and relegation becomes ever more likely.
Those of you who still back him I admire your spirit. I have no idea what you honestly see as I see a bloke way out of his depth and players who reportedly praise him in the press hardly busting a gut to keep him here and a coaching staff who are beyond their sell by date.
Its okay saying give him a couple more games. How many more gutless performances are you prepared to watch ?
Give him a couple of games to turn it around, the players are still working their socks off for him. Still don't know how we didn't win today's game, just like the QPR game which we should have won too.
Give him a couple of games to turn it around, the players are still working their socks off for him. Still don't know how we didn't win today's game, just like the QPR game which we should have won too.
I must have watched a different game.And we conceded two yet again !
We didn't win for the same reason we have not won many other games this season we
Created f all! And some of the players were trying but I would argue a lot others
Had given up
Charlton away next year folks :(
Don't know who Jonathan Hope is but...
Jonathan Hope â€@Jonhopeofficial 7m7 minutes ago
I'm hearing Alan Irvine has been relieved of his duties as manager of West Brom. Will update accordingly. This is what I been told #wba RT
Don't know who Jonathan Hope is but...
Jonathan Hope â€@Jonhopeofficial 7m7 minutes ago
I'm hearing Alan Irvine has been relieved of his duties as manager of West Brom. Will update accordingly. This is what I been told #wba RT
Jonathon Hope pretends to be a football agent but isn't, and was recently jailed for six months for possessing child pornography (not an allegation, a fact, so no need to remove mods).if he was recently jailed how is he tweeting?
Fantastic away day dont see the problem myself add to that the BCD and games against blues its what its all about unless you have people at your club who want to deserve there position in the top league and earn that tag.Agreed :P
Jonathon Hope pretends to be a football agent but isn't, and was recently jailed for six months for possessing child pornography (not an allegation, a fact, so no need to remove mods).
if he was recently jailed how is he tweeting?Because it wasn't in the last six months. "Recently" meant within the last few years.
I've just read this but wasn't sure if this was the same bloke in all honesty.Has the same picture on his twitter as on the news article about his crime
Jonathan Hope @Jonhopeofficial · 19m 19 minutes agoSee above.
Richard Garlick is still in meeting. Tony Pulis will only declare public interest WHEN the job is vacant. Not before. Update soon #wba RT
Going to be lots of these so who knows who is itk or who is talking pooh !! Same as the transfer window
Are any Albion fans open to the possibility if Downing, Kiely and Kelly being relieved of their duties, AI being moved to first-team coach, and the club bring in a manager of some status...I'd be very happy with that. Unfortunately I doubt that Peace would listen.
I see 3 major advantages to this :-
1. a clear out of the deadwood, who have been around for way too long, and are an integral part of the problems besetting the club
2. Try to use AI's strengths. We have heard ad-nauseum from a number of sources what a good coach he is, so lets relieve him of all the other baggage, and allow him to do what he is best at, and try to reap the benefit of it
3. bring in a manager. A proper manager - someone who can do all the things that AI is patently very poor at....organise, man-manage, game-plans etc..
I think this would work myself.. Any takers ?
Are any Albion fans open to the possibility if Downing, Kiely and Kelly being relieved of their duties, AI being moved to first-team coach, and the club bring in a manager of some status...Yes indeed.If an acceptable deal could be worked out by all?
I see 3 major advantages to this :-
1. a clear out of the deadwood, who have been around for way too long, and are an integral part of the problems besetting the club
2. Try to use AI's strengths. We have heard ad-nauseum from a number of sources what a good coach he is, so lets relieve him of all the other baggage, and allow him to do what he is best at, and try to reap the benefit of it
3. bring in a manager. A proper manager - someone who can do all the things that AI is patently very poor at....organise, man-manage, game-plans etc..
I think this would work myself.. Any takers ?
Genuinely felt sorry for Irvine stood out there on his own! He should never have been offered the job! TB & JP what were you thinking! Only brought Kelly with him so Downing & Kiely (the common denominators in our demise) have to go as well.
We need a complete overhaul in the managerial positions!
Are any Albion fans open to the possibility of Downing, Kiely and Kelly being relieved of their duties, AI being moved to first-team coach, and the club bring in a manager of some status...
I see 3 major advantages to this :-
1. a clear out of the deadwood, who have been around for way too long, and are an integral part of the problems besetting the club
2. Try to use AI's strengths. We have heard ad-nauseum from a number of sources what a good coach he is, so lets relieve him of all the other baggage, and allow him to do what he is best at, and try to reap the benefit of it
3. bring in a manager. A proper manager - someone who can do all the things that AI is patently very poor at....organise, man-manage, game-plans etc..
I think this would work myself.. Any takers ?
Are any Albion fans open to the possibility of Downing, Kiely and Kelly being relieved of their duties, AI being moved to first-team coach, and the club bring in a manager of some status...
I see 3 major advantages to this :-
1. a clear out of the deadwood, who have been around for way too long, and are an integral part of the problems besetting the club
2. Try to use AI's strengths. We have heard ad-nauseum from a number of sources what a good coach he is, so lets relieve him of all the other baggage, and allow him to do what he is best at, and try to reap the benefit of it
3. bring in a manager. A proper manager - someone who can do all the things that AI is patently very poor at....organise, man-manage, game-plans etc..
I think this would work myself.. Any takers ?
I'm still struggling to buy this "he's a good coach" thing. No-one has yet been able to explain where the evidence is to back this up. What are individual players doing better than they were before Irvine was here? Are our set pieces better (both attacking and defending)? Just what is it that makes him a good coach?Use Google mate! It's all there!
I'm still struggling to buy this "he's a good coach" thing. No-one has yet been able to explain where the evidence is to back this up. What are individual players doing better than they were before Irvine was here? Are our set pieces better (both attacking and defending)? Just what is it that makes him a good coach?
I'm still struggling to buy this "he's a good coach" thing. No-one has yet been able to explain where the evidence is to back this up. What are individual players doing better than they were before Irvine was here? Are our set pieces better (both attacking and defending)? Just what is it that makes him a good coach?mostly bull from players who are safe whilst irvines here.
Use Google mate! It's all there!
You can be a world class coach without being a good manager.Too True!
Football is littered with them Don Howe and Brian Kidd are two who spring to mind.
I asked you a few weeks ago to post a link to prove 'it's all there'
You couldn't
I googled it and could not find anything to prove he is a good coach
Please post 2 links that prove he is a good coach
Otherwise stop making things up
Pepe Mel simply had to go, he lost the dressing room.
Pepe Mel simply had to go, he lost the dressing room. The players are still fighting for Irvine, that will give us half a chance.
Lescott stating that its not Irvine to blame but the players!just wish the players would shut up talking rubbish and do what they are paid to do, all these comments are just futile and mean nothing to supporters when we sliding down the league.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12040/9624105/premier-league-players-not-looking-to-blame-manager-alan-irvine-says-west-brom8217s-joleon-lescott
Laughable! irvine picks the fkn lacklustre team ffs!
Lescott stating that its not Irvine to blame but the players!
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12040/9624105/premier-league-players-not-looking-to-blame-manager-alan-irvine-says-west-brom8217s-joleon-lescott
Laughable! irvine picks the fkn lacklustre team ffs!
And I wonder why that was?
The players are fighting for him?! Whatever you've been drinking over Christmas, send it this way please.
I'm not sure, maybe he needed to do a better job man managing the players and gaining their respect. If a Head Coach or Manager loses the respect of the players then he won't last long. Mel leaving was the best thing for both parties.Lack of quality at the back and in the middle too!
We've never lost a game this season due to a lack of trying. Lack of quality in the final third maybe.
Lack of quality at the back and in the middle too!
He's gone, pulis in within a week.
No yellow bar yet
Probably announced tomorrowAre you confirming this then?
Its bad luck now! Completely fkn stupid inept moron!was it bad luck that wisdom was 20 yrds from the stoke player to put the ball into the box for stokes 1st, was it bad luck that no player closed down the shot for stokes second. just drivel after every defeat, would respect him more if he had a blast at the players for not doing the basics.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/irvine-albion-baggies-stoke-west-brom-2169812.aspx
Probably announced tomorrow
Pepe Mel simply had to go, he lost the dressing room. The players are still fighting for Irvine, that will give us half a chance.
I'm not sure, maybe he needed to do a better job man managing the players and gaining their respect. If a Head Coach or Manager loses the respect of the players then he won't last long. Mel leaving was the best thing for both parties.
We've never lost a game this season due to a lack of trying. Lack of quality in the final third maybe.
Maybe those players should have given him a chance but thats bye the bye, they are not doing Irvine any favours either.
We may not have lost a game due to a lack of trying but we are losing games due to tactical ineptness from the Head Coach, poor team selections from the Head Coach and poor performances and individual errors from the same faces week in week out.
Trying is the minimum a Premier League footballer should be doing. Even players not good enough for this level should never be accused of not trying.
Totally agree! Im sure Leicester, QPR and Burnley players were called not good enough for the Premier league, at least they are trying!
Trying is the minimum a Premier League footballer should be doing. Even players not good enough for this level should never be accused of not trying.
Pepe Mel simply had to go, he lost the dressing room. The players are still fighting for Irvine, that will give us half a chance.Irvine has fewer points from more games than Mel was ever afforded, and that's supposedly with the players behind him, so presumably Irvine "has to go" even more urgently.
Irvine has fewer points from more games than Mel was ever afforded, so presumably Irvine "has to go" too.
I'd promote Big Dave for the next two games (WHU and Gateshead) and give the board chance to do things properly.
Big Dave would certainly get the fan's backing.
Irvine now 1/3 with skybet for the sack!
As much as we love him, Big Dave has even less experience of management than Irvine.
As much as we love him, Big Dave has even less experience of management than Irvine.
whos in charge of the u21s, couldn't they step in until a replacement is found.
Ted confirmed has in charge for the West Ham game. I seriously believe we would stand a better chance of a result if he had gone. The players are obviously not playing for him like some say
Ted confirmed has in charge for the West Ham game. I seriously believe we would stand a better chance of a result if he had gone. The players are obviously not playing for him like some say
Ted confirmed has in charge for the West Ham game. I seriously believe we would stand a better chance of a result if he had gone. The players are obviously not playing for him like some say
Ted confirmed has in charge for the West Ham game. I seriously believe we would stand a better chance of a result if he had gone. The players are obviously not playing for him like some sayThe players are playing for him, they just aren't necessarily up to the task. A change in manager will not necessarily result in a change in fortune. I see the suggestion that we have a squad capable of finishing in the top 10, we haven't. How many of our players do you think are capable of getting regular football for a top ten side? How many teams are banging on our door to drag our players away? The funny thing is, the player who gets most derided on here is most likely to be playing at the highest placed Premier League team come next season.
The players are playing for him, they just aren't necessarily up to the task. A change in manager will not necessarily result in a change in fortune. I see the suggestion that we have a squad capable of finishing in the top 10, we haven't. How many of our players do you think are capable of getting regular football for a top ten side? How many teams are banging on our door to drag our players away? The funny thing is, the player who gets most derided on here is most likely to be playing at the highest placed Premier League team come next season.
We recruited badly last season, a number of people lost their jobs because of it, players, coaches and backroom staff. This put significant pressure on everyone this season and we are still in recovery. We still do not appear to have found the men to score the goals and that will make it difficult for Alan Irvine or if he is sacked, his replacement.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9624290
The players are playing for him, they just aren't necessarily up to the task. A change in manager will not necessarily result in a change in fortune. I see the suggestion that we have a squad capable of finishing in the top 10, we haven't. How many of our players do you think are capable of getting regular football for a top ten side? How many teams are banging on our door to drag our players away? The funny thing is, the player who gets most derided on here is most likely to be playing at the highest placed Premier League team come next season.
We recruited badly last season, a number of people lost their jobs because of it, players, coaches and backroom staff. This put significant pressure on everyone this season and we are still in recovery. We still do not appear to have found the men to score the goals and that will make it difficult for Alan Irvine or if he is sacked, his replacement.
The players are playing for him, they just aren't necessarily up to the task. A change in manager will not necessarily result in a change in fortune. I see the suggestion that we have a squad capable of finishing in the top 10, we haven't. How many of our players do you think are capable of getting regular football for a top ten side? How many teams are banging on our door to drag our players away? The funny thing is, the player who gets most derided on here is most likely to be playing at the highest placed Premier League team come next season.
We recruited badly last season, a number of people lost their jobs because of it, players, coaches and backroom staff. This put significant pressure on everyone this season and we are still in recovery. We still do not appear to have found the men to score the goals and that will make it difficult for Alan Irvine or if he is sacked, his replacement.
Devon, I'm starting to think that you want Alan Irvine sacked? :o
The players are playing for him, they just aren't necessarily up to the task. A change in manager will not necessarily result in a change in fortune. I see the suggestion that we have a squad capable of finishing in the top 10, we haven't. How many of our players do you think are capable of getting regular football for a top ten side? How many teams are banging on our door to drag our players away? The funny thing is, the player who gets most derided on here is most likely to be playing at the highest placed Premier League team come next season.I think the players genuinely did try to play for him yesterday but I agree they just aint good enough, but the changes he made to the starting line up didn't make sense.
We recruited badly last season, a number of people lost their jobs because of it, players, coaches and backroom staff. This put significant pressure on everyone this season and we are still in recovery. We still do not appear to have found the men to score the goals and that will make it difficult for Alan Irvine or if he is sacked, his replacement.
The players are playing for him, they just aren't necessarily up to the task. A change in manager will not necessarily result in a change in fortune. I see the suggestion that we have a squad capable of finishing in the top 10, we haven't. How many of our players do you think are capable of getting regular football for a top ten side? How many teams are banging on our door to drag our players away? The funny thing is, the player who gets most derided on here is most likely to be playing at the highest placed Premier League team come next season.
We recruited badly last season, a number of people lost their jobs because of it, players, coaches and backroom staff. This put significant pressure on everyone this season and we are still in recovery. We still do not appear to have found the men to score the goals and that will make it difficult for Alan Irvine or if he is sacked, his replacement.Quote
Completely agree with this. I've thought since the summer that the squad wasn't really improved from last season, and this, rather than the coach is the issue for me. Before people start banging out stats of how many caps certain players have, remember bad players win caps too. Regardless of what we think, we don't see the players everyday, maybe the ones people are crying out for to get picked just aren't showing it in training. I understand some players aren't good trainers, but they usually show something that warrants a start. If 'wonderful, best coach ever Hodgson' was in charge, I bet the players deficiencies would be getting more of a mention. Our recruitment is the problem for me, which again goes back to Dan Ashworth leaving. Maybe the Head Coach role needs revising? Without someone as good as Ashworth, it seems clear the system falls down.
My answer would be to back Irvine in the January transfer window to get some quality in and get rid of some deadwood. Will that happen? Probably not.
too true, i am itching to come back to watch some football and get the most out of my season ticket
I think the players genuinely did try to play for him yesterday but I agree they just aint good enough, but the changes he made to the starting line up didn't make sense.Dorrans should provide more defensive support to his full back (although he didn't in my opinion), Brunt is far more of a "quarterback" influencing our attacks which was clearly noticeable when he came on against Man City. When you play Stoke with tiny forwards you have to have good distribution along the floor. Mulumbu can break up play but equally his passing and ball retention is not the greatest. It is fine margins with our squad, we don't have many players with multiple assets.
he dropped varela to accommodate either brunt or dorrans. why.
neither of these two offer more of an attacking threat than varela.
if it was because they are more defensive than varela then surely you would play mulumbu or yacob for that role ahead of brunt or dorrans.
It's very easy to pin the blame on Irvine but if we are honest it's the whole set up at the club that isn't working. Whilst we are in the premier league and Peace owns our club we will always be trying to punch above our weight. Trying to do more with less.
Roy managed to do this brilliantly but it's gone seriously downhill since then. Maybe we got lucky? Without serious financial backing we are not realistically going to break into the top half of the league again - the amount of money up there is frankly insane.
Personally I am bored s*itless of rolling into another season with the sole aim of staying in the league. A cup run would be welcome but recently that has clearly not been a priority.
I wouldn't mind dropping back into the championship, just so we can rebuild and have a season where we could see our team win a few games and get some positive attitude excitement back into the hawthorns.
It's very easy to pin the blame on Irvine but if we are honest it's the whole set up at the club that isn't working. Whilst we are in the premier league and Peace owns our club we will always be trying to punch above our weight. Trying to do more with less.Sides that drop into the Championship don't always find it easy to get back up. However dragging people back into reality and winning a few games would be refreshing!
Roy managed to do this brilliantly but it's gone seriously downhill since then. Maybe we got lucky? Without serious financial backing we are not realistically going to break into the top half of the league again - the amount of money up there is frankly insane.
Personally I am bored s*itless of rolling into another season with the sole aim of staying in the league. A cup run would be welcome but recently that has clearly not been a priority.
I wouldn't mind dropping back into the championship, just so we can rebuild and have a season where we could see our team win a few games and get some positive attitude excitement back into the hawthorns.
You sort of contradicted yourself there. It's not all Irvines fault, yet hodgson managed to do it. Kind of proves if you have the right man at the top it can work. Irvine is not the right man.
You sort of contradicted yourself there. It's not all Irvines fault, yet hodgson managed to do it. Kind of proves if you have the right man at the top it can work. Irvine is not the right man.Hodgson had the advantage of having players who could find the net and significant options up front. Apples and Oranges. Our poor recruitment happened after he left.
I back Peace’s judgement on what he chooses to do with Irvine, I haven’t disagreed with one of his previous firings and he usually gets them right in terms of timing as well. Stick or twist I back Peace’s judgement, I hope he doesn't bow down simply because of fan pressure, nor do I expect him to.You don't become a successful businessman or football chairman by being weak or listening to the uneducated (not meant in a derogatory way, in most cases ;), but most of us don't know what is happening at the club on a day to day basis we get a glimpse of 90 minutes once a week).
Hodgson had the advantage of having players who could find the net and significant options up front. Apples and Oranges. Our poor recruitment happened after he left.To be fair comparing any year and manager to any other is apples to oranges. The way I prefer to think of it is would we be in this situation if hodgson had this group of players, personally don't think so.
It's very easy to pin the blame on Irvine but if we are honest it's the whole set up at the club that isn't working. Whilst we are in the premier league and Peace owns our club we will always be trying to punch above our weight. Trying to do more with less.
Roy managed to do this brilliantly but it's gone seriously downhill since then. Maybe we got lucky? Without serious financial backing we are not realistically going to break into the top half of the league again - the amount of money up there is frankly insane.
Personally I am bored s*itless of rolling into another season with the sole aim of staying in the league. A cup run would be welcome but recently that has clearly not been a priority.
I wouldn't mind dropping back into the championship, just so we can rebuild and have a season where we could see our team win a few games and get some positive attitude excitement back into the hawthorns.
I understand what you mean but Dan Ashworth was clearly an integral part of that regime.
I think I'd second that. For a bloke who's supposed to be weak, he'll have some b@lls to carry on after yesterdays vitriol though. I think I would want to be taken out of the firing line.
Dorrans should provide more defensive support to his full back (although he didn't in my opinion), Brunt is far more of a "quarterback" influencing our attacks which was clearly noticeable when he came on against Man City. When you play Stoke with tiny forwards you have to have good distribution along the floor. Mulumbu can break up play but equally his passing and ball retention is not the greatest. It is fine margins with our squad, we don't have many players with multiple assets.
He's gone, trust me. Peace has learnt from past mistakes of not having people lined up and will this week be having first or possibly second discussions with the potentials.
Next week we'll have a new man in charge and this nightmare will be over.
Watch us get a result against West Ham now.
There is a little rumour going around that due to the settlement agreement with Pulis, he isn't available to another club until the new year.
I wonder if that bit of information is what is holding JP back or if it's even true. That's assuming again of course that he is/would be interested.
So what happens then if we have a blinder and beat West Ham 3 or 4 nil?
Watch us get a result against West Ham now.
There is a little rumour going around that due to the settlement agreement with Pulis, he isn't available to another club until the new year.
I wonder if that bit of information is what is holding JP back or if it's even true. That's assuming again of course that he is/would be interested.
Are you on drugs?
;)
Headline on the BBC Sports ticker: West Brom will not make a decision on Monday over the future of head coach Alan Irvine
A senior West Brom source has told Sky Sports News HQ that Alan Irvine WILL be in charge for the game against West Ham on New Year's Day.
Who could that source be, I wonder. Chris Lepkowski?
I guess JP is in mid-air today to his annual holiday in the sun!
I've seen it suggested that plans to place Downing in temporary charge have had to be revisited because of away crowd reaction yesterday. Could well be right.
It's interesting that no-one is saying Irvine's job is safe for the time being only that he will be in charge for the West Ham game. It really does look as though Jeremy is lining something up behind the scenes. As has been pointed out already there's no way he'll want a five / six week gap between appointments like last time, for one he couldn't afford that he needs a quick appointment.
If he does get a result against West Ham, say a 1-0 win, how much time do you think that would buy him?
People are mistaken if they think JP doesn't want to pull the pin based on any blind loyalty or worry about loss of face. The decision was made a while ago, the Villa game didn't buy Irvine time, it bought the club time.
This will be a complete clean sweep job and the club is making sure it's as seamless as possible hence the delay.
Off another forum usually reliable, he has also hinted that we have been talking to Pulis last few days.
So what happens then if we have a blinder and beat West Ham 3 or 4 nil? Surely, JP would not sack him after that?
He needs to go today with promises from JP that it will be sorted in time for the Gateshead game.
Let's assume that the above is true (and I do hope that it is).
Why now? Why not in the summer when we had the opportunity to take a bit of time?
If it has been ongoing since the Villa game why only speak to Pulis in the last few days?
As I say I hope it's true, I just cannot see it at the minute.
I am glad he is still here, a man of dignity and respect. I was disgusted by our fans yesterday, the abuse hurled towards him was embarrassing. The man is working hard to get the club results, he will get there eventually.
People are mistaken if they think JP doesn't want to pull the pin based on any blind loyalty or worry about loss of face. The decision was made a while ago, the Villa game didn't buy Irvine time, it bought the club time.
This will be a complete clean sweep job and the club is making sure it's as seamless as possible hence the delay.
Off another forum usually reliable, he has also hinted that we have been talking to Pulis last few days.
That my freind is the most ludicrous post I have seen on this site, in what reality are we going to beat west ham by 3 or 4 ???? (no offence, like)Agreed! Havent West Ham only lost to the gooners at home this year?
That my freind is the most ludicrous post I have seen on this site, in what reality are we going to beat west ham by 3 or 4 ???? (no offence, like)
I am glad he is still here, a man of dignity and respect. I was disgusted by our fans yesterday, the abuse hurled towards him was embarrassing. The man is working hard to get the club results, he will get there eventually.
if JP left immediately after the second goal thats never a good sign, another win for Irvine whenever that might be is simply papering over the cracks
The fans have been VERY patient in the main. For all the moans/ rants on here at games there has been nothing until yesterday apart from a small section at the end of the QPR game. Yes there have been boos after some strange substitutions which have baffled almost all of us (not all obviously). Yesterday enough was enough. For 90 minutes I back that team and Irvine but at the end I will voice my opinion.
If that makes me a bad fan so be it, past caring and yes I will be at West Ham for 90 minutes backing them all again.
As for Irvine he may be a nice man as we are told again I don't care, he is paid well to do a job and he along with others are failing in that job (no doubt I will be told we are not in the bottom three so he is not failing etc etc), results business, we are not getting them. His record is appalling and his little band of merry men on the pitch are not backing up their words of how much they rate him with performances.
Lets hear how a few others think of him instead of the same old faces who coincidentally are practically guaranteed starts.
where did you get that snippet from???
It was on WM yesterday. During the first bit of the commentary they noted that JP was there.
After the second goal they made a comment that he had left.
It's a shame that the ITKers on WestBrom.com have fallen silent in terms of posting ITK info, most likely due to the stick they get when they do post, sadly.
I think some of that was posted earlier too.
I agree that it is a shame that there isn't many ITK posters around.
It is a difficult one because people who post as ITK are judged by what they say is going to happen against what actually happens.
What people don't see is the bit in between that means it can change in an instant and doesn't necessarily mean that person isn't ITK.
Of course on the flip side you get those who pretend to be ITK and just wind people up.
I've seen a post elsewhere from someone who is known have a source of ITK info:
"People are mistaken if they think JP doesn't want to pull the pin based on any blind loyalty or worry about loss of face. The decision was made a while ago, the Villa game didn't buy Irvine time, it bought the club time. This will be a complete clean sweep job and the club is making sure it's as seamless as possible hence the delay"
In later posts, the same person says that Burton isn't part of this "clean sweep" and the replacement will be "Pulis or Sherwood".
It's a shame that the ITKers on WestBrom.com have fallen silent in terms of posting ITK info, most likely due to the stick they get when they do post, sadly.
From what I've heard Peace was very impressed with Sherwood in the summer but Sherwood wouldn't come without his own men. If there is to be a clear-out it may pave the way for Sherwood. I think Pulis might be the go-to man though for his proven record of keeping teams in the Premiership.
Latest that I'm hearing - Pulis is interested, willing to be head coach but will be bringing in some of his own coaches. Whether downing and keily go I don't know? Irvine will go before west ham game if all goes to plan with pulis in before Gateshead game.So the clowns will be in charge for West Ham then! ???
Latest that I'm hearing - Pulis is interested, willing to be head coach but will be bringing in some of his own coaches. Whether downing and keily go I don't know? Irvine will go before west ham game if all goes to plan with pulis in before Gateshead game.
I think it is probably going to be between Pulis & Sherwood, I personally would prefer Pulis.
On the Sessegnon sub, he had a bit of a calf problem. Irvine has a job to look after our players, he's played Sess in nearly every game, it's obvious he sees him as a key player to the team. Sessegnon has usually been taken off for fitness or injury reasons, even so he was poor in the final third yesterday. It's no good dribbling the ball and running past players if your final pass, cross and shot aren't good enough.
So in a busy Christmas period why not leave players out who have issues with fitness ? we have a squad of players not just a select bunch. We had Mulumbu, Yacob amongst the subs, we had Blanco kicking his heels enjoying some family time so why pick a player who has a slight injury ?
Sess played wide left, we had Brunt starting and Varela on the bench both of whom are naturals in that position.
I thought Yacob should have been used in the City game. Blanco is probably seen as not being good enough for Premier League football and Irvine thought he could get an hour from Sess will would cause a bigger threat to the Stoke defence than other options. Varela was probably being looked after too as he might not have been able to start another game so soon.
Poor excuses, if a player is injured he is injured. Playing wide players in the middle and central players wide is poor selection when naturals are available and players with injuries should not be risked during busy times when alternatives are fit and ready. So if Varela is fit then start him over an injured Sess or play a fit Mulumbu or fit Yacob or move a fit Brunt out wide to avoid making a slight injury a bigger one.
As for Blanco who knows if he is good enough. He could have been on the bench at least and could have done no worse than those who did play in that weak midfield.
Poor excuses, if a player is injured he is injured. Playing wide players in the middle and central players wide is poor selection when naturals are available and players with injuries should not be risked during busy times when alternatives are fit and ready. So if Varela is fit then start him over an injured Sess or play a fit Mulumbu or fit Yacob or move a fit Brunt out wide to avoid making a slight injury a bigger one.
As for Blanco who knows if he is good enough. He could have been on the bench at least and could have done no worse than those who did play in that weak midfield.
I thought Yacob should have been used in the City game. Blanco is probably seen as not being good enough for Premier League football and Irvine thought he could get an hour from Sess will would cause a bigger threat to the Stoke defence than other options. Varela was probably being looked after too as he might not have been able to start another game so soon.Just like Steve Madeley's sources at the club reported that Varela was seen as "not good enough" by the current inept coaching team, before succumbing to fan pressure. Blanco is a very, very good player, and it's a travesty he's not playing games for us while the likes of Morrison, Brunt, Dorrans and Gardner are. Same goes for Gamboa and Wisdom. The sooner the new coaching team are instilled and recognise this, the better.
I read from Various sources Irvine is not expecting any incomings, how ironic
So in a busy Christmas period why not leave players out who have issues with fitness ? we have a squad of players not just a select bunch. We had Mulumbu, Yacob amongst the subs, we had Blanco kicking his heels enjoying some family time so why pick a player who has a slight injury ?I'm sure Irvine said earlier in the month that the entire squad would be needed over this period. He obviously just meant he wanted to pick his non-favourites against Gateshead....
I'm sure Irvine said earlier in the month that the entire squad would be needed over this period. He obviously just meant he wanted to pick a weakened side against Gateshead....
weakened !!!!!!!!!!!!!Yes, bad phrasing on my part - i've changed it! :D
How???
Do we honestly think he will be gone and have the new guy in ready for gateshead? Especially after how long it took us to replace Clarke and Mel.
Just like Steve Madeley's sources at the club reported that Varela was seen as "not good enough" by the current inept coaching team, before succumbing to fan pressure. Blanco is a very, very good player, and it's a travesty he's not playing games for us while the likes of Morrison, Brunt, Dorrans and Gardner are. Same goes for Gamboa and Wisdom. The sooner the new coaching team are instilled and recognise this, the better.Is this the injured Varela who we had to get permission from his parent club to determine whether he could have an operation, which he did, and has then fought his way back to fitness (although clearly not full fitness) and is regularly featuring in the first team squad and getting game time? Fan pressure or working with the coaches?
I cannot for the life of me understand why Mulumbu and Yacob spent most the game sitting on the bench when that Stoke midfield were running through Gardner, Brunt and Morrison. I don't recall one of them even making a tackle. Where's their fight and ******* bottle man?
Is this the injured Varela who we had to get permission from his parent club to determine whether he could have an operation, which he did, and has then fought his way back to fitness (although clearly not full fitness) and is regularly featuring in the first team squad and getting game time? Fan pressure or working with the coaches?No, he had been fit before his injury and still wan't getting the chance.
Sack him now and we get Downing in charge for a few games. What's the point in that? All you get is more of the same.
I'm just hoping that Peace is making the right moves behind the scenes to line up wholesale changes to address all the issues.
I'm going to make good use of my time today and create a paper yellow bar with Alan Irvine sacked by West Brom on it then turn on sky sports news and sellotape my yellow bar to the tv giving the illusion the inept clown has gone :D
On a serious note the decision to sack him has already been made but he wont be officially relieved of his duties until after our next bad performance which will more than likely be against West Ham barring a result that will make him impossible to sack i.e. if we won 3, 4, 5 nil.
This makes sense in a couple of ways, if we did appoint a new manager today he would not have enough time to work with players before the game, also if a new manager came in and we get tonked 3 or 4 at an inform West Ham in his first game it would be a morale sapping first game that may may dilute the effect of having a new manager, thirdly it buys the club time to line up a replacement and conduct interviews.
My "personal opinion" is that they are already pretty sure who they want, I don't think we are looking at the length of time it took to appoint the last two managers.
I'm going to make good use of my time today and create a paper yellow bar with Alan Irvine sacked by West Brom on it then turn on sky sports news and sellotape my yellow bar to the tv giving the illusion the inept clown has gone :DAny idea what is planned for Downing and Kiely?
On a serious note the decision to sack him has already been made but he wont be officially relieved of his duties until after our next bad performance which will more than likely be against West Ham barring a result that will make him impossible to sack i.e. if we won 3, 4, 5 nil.
This makes sense in a couple of ways, if we did appoint a new manager today he would not have enough time to work with players before the game, also if a new manager came in and we get tonked 3 or 4 at an inform West Ham in his first game it would be a morale sapping first game that may may dilute the effect of having a new manager, thirdly it buys the club time to line up a replacement and conduct interviews.
My "personal opinion" is that they are already pretty sure who they want, I don't think we are looking at the length of time it took to appoint the last two managers.
Any idea what is planned for Downing and Kiely?Management :o Sorry couldn't help it.
Management :o Sorry couldn't help it.Please excuse me while I throw myself off a bridge
I'm going to make good use of my time today and create a paper yellow bar with Alan Irvine sacked by West Brom on it then turn on sky sports news and sellotape my yellow bar to the tv giving the illusion the inept clown has gone :D
On a serious note the decision to sack him has already been made but he wont be officially relieved of his duties until after our next bad performance which will more than likely be against West Ham barring a result that will make him impossible to sack i.e. if we won 3, 4, 5 nil.
This makes sense in a couple of ways, if we did appoint a new manager today he would not have enough time to work with players before the game, also if a new manager came in and we get tonked 3 or 4 at an inform West Ham in his first game it would be a morale sapping first game that may may dilute the effect of having a new manager, thirdly it buys the club time to line up a replacement and conduct interviews.
My "personal opinion" is that they are already pretty sure who they want, I don't think we are looking at the length of time it took to appoint the last two managers.
Lay-off my assistants says under-fire Irvine
Under-fire boss Alan Irvine urged Albion fans to lay off his assistants after the crowd turned on Keith Downing and Rob Kelly during yesterday’s defeat at Stoke.
Irvine claimed he should take the criticism for his side’s poor form and revealed his players admitted to “letting staff down†after a seventh defeat in nine games.
Travelling supporters targeted Downing and Kelly with abuse and used the pair’s links with arch-rivals Wolves in chants calling for their departure.
Both men played for Wolves and Baggies fans yesterday sang “You Dingle b******s, get out of our club.â€
Downing has served as assistant head coach to Roy Hodgson, Steve Clarke and Pepe Mel, while Kelly arrived at The Hawthorns as joint assistant when Irvine was appointed in the summer.
Irvine said: “I wasn’t aware of it (the chant) but we are all in this together: the players and all the staff.
“The staff are great.
“I’ve said many times about how good the players are to work with, but the staff are great.
“When you hear players say they are letting the staff down – that was something that was mentioned in the dressing room by some of the players – that proves that they are right behind them.
“It’s the kind of reaction I would expect from an honest group of players. They’re extremely disappointed at what’s happened. The players are fully aware of how well the staff work and how hard they work.
“If anybody is to take it then I’m the person that’s standing there. I stand out there and I don’t go and hide.
“I’m there to be shot at but obviously ultimately I make the final decisions and I certainly am happy to be prepared to take the criticism rather than Keith and Rob.â€
Irvine, Kelly and Downing were subjected to boos and criticism as they walked past travelling fans at the end of yesterday’s game with the trio staring straight ahead and walking down the tunnel.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2014/12/29/lay-off-my-assistants-says-under-fire-irvine/
Missed out Kiely from that article. Foster and Carson before him went downhill under Kiely. Clear out needed. Get experience in instead of up and coming or never have beens.
Lay-off my assistants says under-fire IrvineThe players and all the staff are great and they are all an honest group of players...so everything is rosey at The Hawthorns then??
Under-fire boss Alan Irvine urged Albion fans to lay off his assistants after the crowd turned on Keith Downing and Rob Kelly during yesterday’s defeat at Stoke.
Irvine claimed he should take the criticism for his side’s poor form and revealed his players admitted to “letting staff down†after a seventh defeat in nine games.
Travelling supporters targeted Downing and Kelly with abuse and used the pair’s links with arch-rivals Wolves in chants calling for their departure.
Both men played for Wolves and Baggies fans yesterday sang “You Dingle b******s, get out of our club.â€
Downing has served as assistant head coach to Roy Hodgson, Steve Clarke and Pepe Mel, while Kelly arrived at The Hawthorns as joint assistant when Irvine was appointed in the summer.
Irvine said: “I wasn’t aware of it (the chant) but we are all in this together: the players and all the staff.
“The staff are great.
“I’ve said many times about how good the players are to work with, but the staff are great.
“When you hear players say they are letting the staff down – that was something that was mentioned in the dressing room by some of the players – that proves that they are right behind them.
“It’s the kind of reaction I would expect from an honest group of players. They’re extremely disappointed at what’s happened. The players are fully aware of how well the staff work and how hard they work.
“If anybody is to take it then I’m the person that’s standing there. I stand out there and I don’t go and hide.
“I’m there to be shot at but obviously ultimately I make the final decisions and I certainly am happy to be prepared to take the criticism rather than Keith and Rob.â€
Irvine, Kelly and Downing were subjected to boos and criticism as they walked past travelling fans at the end of yesterday’s game with the trio staring straight ahead and walking down the tunnel.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2014/12/29/lay-off-my-assistants-says-under-fire-irvine/
Can somebody answer this for me - what does "honest" mean? We hear it all the time. It's just BS if you ask me.
Downing was not looking straight ahead, he was looking directly at the fans and looked furious.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/paulfletcher/2011/02/alan_irvine.htmlreading the fans comments about Irvine on that article mirrors what most would think about his tenure here
Sure this has been shared before but history repeating itself......?
Can somebody answer this for me - what does "honest" mean? We hear it all the time. It's just BS if you ask me.A lot of industries these days like to employ people with good non-technical skills, this is why the 'great and honest' phrases keep on cropping up.
Can somebody answer this for me - what does "honest" mean? We hear it all the time. It's just BS if you ask me.If Irvine was honest he would admit that the jobs above him, not his fault, you're either good enough or you aint.
If Irvine was honest he would admit that the jobs above him, not his fault, you're either good enough or you aint.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/paulfletcher/2011/02/alan_irvine.html
Sure this has been shared before but history repeating itself......?
2.At 15:01 3rd Feb 2011, AndyParsons wrote:
I was at Orient and we were dire, completely capitulated after going one-nil down. We have conceded 17 goals in 5 straight away defeats which, at just under 3.5 a game, points out relegation form. We have on paper the best squad in the league but the players need a kick up the back side. Irvine couldn't do that but hopefully someone else can. It's a shame as he was a nice bloke but his team selections recently were one of a man who was clearly under pressure.
His level is league One.
Perhaps that is where Peace sees us?
His level is league One.Even then he was sacked in League One for a terrible run of form strikingly similar to our own. Amazing that a Premier League club appointed him.
Perhaps that is where Peace sees us?
Just thought i'd share one particular post which does sound familiar.
Even then he was sacked in League One for a terrible run of form strikingly similar to our own. Amazing that a Premier League club appointed him.
Even then he was sacked in League One for a terrible run of form strikingly similar to our own. Amazing that a Premier League club appointed him.
It's still difficult to comprehend even six months later.Its the one and only question I would love to ask jp. what did you see on his cv to appoint him as head coach at the albion. he's undoubtedly had small spells of success at both preston and sheff wed but equally if not more so had poor spells and long losing streaks that he's never managed to stop. what qualified him to head coach of a premiership club.
Lay-off my assistants says under-fire Irvine
Under-fire boss Alan Irvine urged Albion fans to lay off his assistants after the crowd turned on Keith Downing and Rob Kelly during yesterday’s defeat at Stoke.
Irvine claimed he should take the criticism for his side’s poor form and revealed his players admitted to “letting staff down†after a seventh defeat in nine games.
Travelling supporters targeted Downing and Kelly with abuse and used the pair’s links with arch-rivals Wolves in chants calling for their departure.
Both men played for Wolves and Baggies fans yesterday sang “You Dingle b******s, get out of our club.â€
Downing has served as assistant head coach to Roy Hodgson, Steve Clarke and Pepe Mel, while Kelly arrived at The Hawthorns as joint assistant when Irvine was appointed in the summer.
Irvine said: “I wasn’t aware of it (the chant) but we are all in this together: the players and all the staff.
“The staff are great.
“I’ve said many times about how good the players are to work with, but the staff are great.
“When you hear players say they are letting the staff down – that was something that was mentioned in the dressing room by some of the players – that proves that they are right behind them.
“It’s the kind of reaction I would expect from an honest group of players. They’re extremely disappointed at what’s happened. The players are fully aware of how well the staff work and how hard they work.
“If anybody is to take it then I’m the person that’s standing there. I stand out there and I don’t go and hide.
“I’m there to be shot at but obviously ultimately I make the final decisions and I certainly am happy to be prepared to take the criticism rather than Keith and Rob.â€
Irvine, Kelly and Downing were subjected to boos and criticism as they walked past travelling fans at the end of yesterday’s game with the trio staring straight ahead and walking down the tunnel.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2014/12/29/lay-off-my-assistants-says-under-fire-irvine/
Sky sports reporting AI stays in charge for west Ham game is this a joke or 3 more points down the drain looks like the chairman has settled for a mid championship team
Hope he can turn it around starting at West Ham, still think he deserves a few more games as we're still out the relegation zone.
Hope he can turn it around starting at West Ham, still think he deserves a few more games as we're still out the relegation zone.I understand that if this happens, your pride will be restored Jeremy, but it's a forlorn hope I'm afraid
Im sure most of you will be delighted when Alan Irvine is sacked.............and Dingle Keith gets the reigns until the end of the season....except that isn't the choice, is it.
Hope he can turn it around starting at West Ham, still think he deserves a few more games as we're still out the relegation zone.Every game that goes by we are losing opportunities to acquire points and relegation becomes ever closer
Im sure most of you will be delighted when Alan Irvine is sacked.............and Dingle Keith gets the reigns until the end of the season.
Im sure most of you will be delighted when Alan Irvine is sacked.............and Dingle Keith gets the reigns until the end of the season.
I think if you read between the lines the club do not want to sack Irvine but fans negativity will mean he is sacked.
So I cannot see Downing being considered for the job this time around given hes recieved the same amount of flack.
It really is a mess and as Oldburywba says could have been avoided if Peace had grown a pair in the summer.
Thing is whoever comes in the players will start with a clean slate and that should be the case with the fans too.WHY -we didn't do that with AI?
Need to make sure that if the new man feels a certain player is right for that particular game that we don't jump down his throat at the first opportunity.
WHY -we didn't do that with AI?
Pulis 8/11 just saying!!
I feel a bit for AI. We all know he is on his way out and now it seems the club are lining up his replacement while he is still here. A bit like the Hughes/Mancini saga a few years back at Man City.
Still want him gone mind :P
Might surprise a lot of you but I feel for AI too. He genuinely seems like a nice guy.I don't feel for him. Does he feel for the fans that travel all over the country and spend £1,000's in the meantime. Then on their way to the ground hear the negative team news and think we shouldn't of bothered, but they do exacally the same a fortnight later.
To me though that's the problem. I think we need someone who will throw a grenade into the changing room...
(As an aside, when did we start calling it the dressing room FFS? That tells you what's wrong with our bloody national game....)
I don't feel for him. Does he feel for the fans that travel all over the country and spend £1,000's in the meantime. Then on their way to the ground hear the negative team news and think we shouldn't of bothered, but they do exacally the same a fortnight later.
West Brom have made him a very wealthy man and he will be paid 12 months money as he's on a rolling contract. At his age he will never have to work again if he chooses not to. I would love to be in his position and I wouldn't want anyone feeling for me.
Hope he can turn it around starting at West Ham, still think he deserves a few more games as we're still out the relegation zone.
You are obviously in a very small minority and I respect your view. Although I accept that it is not solely Irvines' fault would you back another head coach with a similar record including having the decline in results with previous clubs at a lower league level that Irvine had?
What I find intriguing is that the club appear to be giving him one more game in charge. If this is how it turns out then I find it difficult to see how Irvine would accept his subsequent sacking in this scenario and just maybe an amicable arrangement has been made to retain his services in a role similar to that at Everton, This could be face saving for both JP and Irvine. This then naturally leads to what will happen to Downing and Kiely.
All speculation on my part.
Weird how it's not everywhere, bit even sky sports news and why hasn't the site gone down?!
Hopefully because we've fixed the gremlins
Was never going to work out. Hearing pulis and sherwood are both keen and want deal done quick so was in clubs interest to sack him.
I may be wrong BUT. I think it's illegal to interview for a job that somebody is currently in. So maybe they put the feelers out and know what's what and are looking to officially sort it out over the next few days, because 10.30 pm is a strnge time to announce the news.
Let us hope the rest of them follow him out of the door; the prospect of KD in charge for a couple of games is daunting to say the least
Don't shoot the messenger but Downing lives near me and apparently has told people today he is leaving.
Don't shoot the messenger but Downing lives near me and apparently has told people today he is leaving.*Prays*
I hope someone ran it past brunt first ;D
Seriously it would be just our luck the club will make a massive u-turn now just to wind us up :P
It is strange that the announcement has leaked out so late-on. I wonder if they have for once got a replacement ready.
I am dancing naked in the streets of exeter. Any West Ham tickets left :)It's too cold mate, lets see you do at the Gateshead match on the pitch.
Irvine out, Dave Jones in :D.
It's too cold mate, lets see you do at the Gateshead match on the pitch.
Unless Downing and Kiely go, this will make no difference.
I will even give you my leg to wave about.
You are on kev
Thank f**k for that. Absolutely diabolical appointment of an utterly useless man. Good riddance Father Ted, we've wasted 6 months. Get rid of the other 3 then get Tony Pulis and sort this club out.Welcome back ;D
There'll be no celebration for me. He's a good man, and I'd never wish a good man to be sacked. It was just necessary for the success of a club, which is more important. I'd like to wish him good luck in the future.
I'll only be satisfied once I hear that Downing and Kiely have been sacked. Otherwise sacking Irvine is a pointless exercise.
We'll only know whether the others are still there when the official site is updated at some point in 2015.
There'll be no celebration for me. He's a good man, and I'd never wish a good man to be sacked. It was just necessary for the success of a club, which is more important. I'd like to wish him good luck in the future.
I'll only be satisfied once I hear that Downing and Kiely have been sacked. Otherwise sacking Irvine is a pointless exercise.
I wonder if this will mark Jack Russell's return to the site?!
And I wanted an early night lolhave you put your clothes back on, I can hear you laughing up here in north wales.
I wonder if Newcastle losing Pardew has forced Peace's hand?
I understand he's in talks from what I heard. He's currently butler to Pepe
I suspect it probably has.
Rumours of Bruce going to Newcastle would mean hull would be looking and suspect Pulis/sherwood would be looked at.
interesting that is for sure
Thank f**k for that. Absolutely diabolical appointment of an utterly useless man. Good riddance Father Ted, we've wasted 6 months. Get rid of the other 3 then get Tony Pulis and sort this club out.hope you've come out of retirement jacko.
I wonder if Newcastle losing Pardew has forced Peace's hand?has pardew left Newcastle.
Come on lads show some respect please, he as gone and that is what many wanted so no need for such nasty remarks against him.
Jamie Carragher,was he on about us.
"i'd expect them to stay up now" strange comment
Come on lads show some respect please, he as gone and that is what many wanted so no need for such nasty remarks against him.
There'll be no celebration for me. He's a good man, and I'd never wish a good man to be sacked. It was just necessary for the success of our club, which is more important. I'd like to wish him good luck in the future.
I'll only be satisfied once I hear that Downing and Kiely have been sacked. Otherwise sacking Irvine is a pointless exercise.
was he on about us.
been on here all day and fell asleep at 10, woke up and its gone ballistic.
I can't say I've seen any nasty remarks. Just sheer relief that a man totally out of his depth at this level has departed our club.
I do wish him the best though, from the sounds of it he is a good COACH. Nothing against the guy personally at all, he just should never have been given the job in the first place.
I can't say I've seen any nasty remarks. Just sheer relief that a man totally out of his depth at this level has departed our club.
I do wish him the best though, from the sounds of it he is a good COACH. Nothing against the guy personally at all, he just should never have been given the job in the first place.
was he on about us.yes, in one breath "felt sorry for AI", then "think they will stay up now".
been on here all day and fell asleep at 10, woke up and its gone ballistic.
I agree.
We're now after our fourth head coach in just over a year.
An appalling indictment of our boards decision making.
What is really poor from the club again though is no official statement from the club yet???
spot on mate, a complete waste of money and time, divided supporters like i have never known.lots of bridges to be built by the club now and get fans back onside and unite, please not another stupid appointment jp because this one is a colossal decision that's got to be 1000 % correct.
So shambolic its a joke, how we are still in the prem god only knows we must learn from this
Be interesting to see what happens with Downing and Kiely..
The fans anger won't stop just yet after the sacking of Irvine.
There's two more which need to follow suit..
Steve Madeley â€@smadeley_star 2m2 minutes ago
As I understand it Irvine's departure is merely a formality now. Legal details are being ironed out before anything is confirmed. #wba
Steve Madeley â€@smadeley_star 2m2 minutes ago
As I understand it Irvine's departure is merely a formality now. Legal details are being ironed out before anything is confirmed. #wba
Downing stays!!! FFS.
Downing stays!!! FFS.
They will go too, I have no doubt.
Irvine 20 games'Sad' but that's the modern game, there's literally tens of millions of pounds riding on the fate of one individual. You'd have to have nerves of steel not to pull the trigger.
Mel 17 games
Clarke 60 games
Sad reflection of boards decision making really
if Sherwood comes then Kelly,downing and kiely will be replaced by his men. im not sure if pulis as a team of people he takes with him or if he would agree to work within our set up. id like to think if pullis comes then the others will certainly know who is the gaffer.
I hope that whoever is appointed will have the financial clout to re-vamp the squad. Many of this season's regulars were part of the set us that almost got us relegated last season. It's time to say thank you and goodbye to the likes of Dorrans, Morrison, Baird, Olsson, Samaras and even Anichebe. We may have to opt mainly for loans, but there are plenty of good quality players available in the UK and Europe who are in the last year of their existing contracts.how many loans can you have, we have two now in wisdom and varela.
how many loans can you have, we have two now in wisdom and varela.
It wouldn't mind if we went for someone like Eddie Howe of Bournemouth, who is highly rated - and young! However, there are no rumours coming from the south coast. The situation could well have changed by the morning. I think Sherwood is the more likely choice. I lost a small fortune when he wasn't appointed last time but I am not risking any cash on him this time.
I think we've staged advanced talks with whoever is lined up. That rules out anyone in work as their club would announce we had requested permission.
If Pulis comes then Downing and Kiely will go.
Dave Kemp and Gerry Francis will join.
Downing and Kiely will surely go this time.
Even Peace must now see we need a total clear-out.
Looking likely.
What's left to say about Irvine. There is a massive sense of relief, keep the thread open long enough for Aiden and Legend to say their goodbyes then lock her up.
Looking likely.
What's left to say about Irvine. There is a massive sense of relief, keep the thread open long enough for Aiden and Legend to say their goodbyes then lock her up.
Looking likely.
What's left to say about Irvine. There is a massive sense of relief, keep the thread open long enough for Aiden and Legend to say their goodbyes then lock her up.
If Pulis comes then Downing and Kiely will go.
Dave Kemp and Gerry Francis will join.
Fair play to the two of them they stuck by their man through rubbish & more rubbish.Don't see why stubbornness should be applauded, but I suppose by playing devils advocate they at least encouraged stronger counter-arguments as to what changes needed to be made and why.
If correct then I hope Francis gets that bloody mullet lopped.
;D.
That mullet is more sacred than our continental system. Has stood the test of time ;D
I thank Alan Irvine for his efforts, an honest man, had real integrity and seemingly worked his absolute nuts off, just wasn’t to be. I could never spit venom at someone like that.
My sentiments exactly.
What a pity he was not appointed as a number two to an experienced Premier League manager.
All of the very best AI.
Good luck to whoever gets the job, I'll support them like I supported Irvine before them. I do think we will stay up, I think we would have under Irvine, because there remain three teams or more in a worse position than us. Do I expect much of a change on the pitch? Not really. Unless we recruit, we do not have the personnel to score enough goals to compensate for those that we concede and therefore will always be flirting with danger.
He is a nice guy,he is a hard working person,but he is not a good head coach,wish him all the best for his future career.
Sharpen your pens, fill up the poison ink well and get ready to have a go at the next manager. I cannot believe such vitriol was poured over AV.He was not the right man for job,but the players have not helped.not all experts mate, just fans who care about a our club, and as this is a forum were you can air your views. Some will welcome the new head coach/manager some will not, it's called an opinion!! To which we are all entitled to have.
Unless God and his Son are appointed, I expect all you bloody experts will soon kick-off your criticism. It's a tough job and none of you could hack it.
if Pulis is the next man in, then i'm certain there will be plenty who will put a "new nib" in their pens.
Sharpen your pens, fill up the poison ink well and get ready to have a go at the next manager. I cannot believe such vitriol was poured over AV.He was not the right man for job,but the players have not helped.
Unless God and his Son are appointed, I expect all you bloody experts will soon kick-off your criticism. It's a tough job and none of you could hack it.
if Pulis is the next man in, then i'm certain there will be plenty who will put a "new nib" in their pens.
glad he has gone I do not feel sorry for him in any shape or form , he new he wasn't wanted by the fans yet still tuck on the job so new what was coming if didn't hit the ground running with good football and some wins and getting paid to sit at home nah sorry good bye , now other 3 need to go and start again .Just hope the new bloke hit's the ground running with good football and some wins then, otherwise I think we will see the same post again. Fell sorry for AI, fans never took to him even before he stepped through the door at West Brom.
Sharpen your pens, fill up the poison ink well and get ready to have a go at the next manager. I cannot believe such vitriol was poured over AV.He was not the right man for job,but the players have not helped.
Unless God and his Son are appointed, I expect all you bloody experts will soon kick-off your criticism. It's a tough job and none of you could hack it.
if Pulis is the next man in, then i'm certain there will be plenty who will put a "new nib" in their pens.
Sharpen your pens, fill up the poison ink well and get ready to have a go at the next manager. I cannot believe such vitriol was poured over AV.He was not the right man for job,but the players have not helped.
Unless God and his Son are appointed, I expect all you bloody experts will soon kick-off your criticism. It's a tough job and none of you could hack it.
if Pulis is the next man in, then i'm certain there will be plenty who will put a "new nib" in their pens.
I cannot believe people are still defending this clueless idiot.So the football served up was atrocious compared to what ?? I would say it was no worse than under the Hodgson and Clarke. Under Irvine we used less long ball, we had better passers in midfield (I think that's why he preferred Morrison to Mulumbu or Yacob).
He didn't lose his job because of a few nasty fans who never gave Mr Nice Guy a chance - he lost his job because, like at Preston and Sheffield Wednesday, the football served up was atrocious and results weren't much better. The guy is USELESS.
Cheerio Alan, thanks for 6 months of utter garbage.
Thank god he's gone. Irvine down Peace to go!!!!
All the best to Alan Irvine, worked his socks off but to no avail.
And as for some of the comments directed at me for sticking up for him...grow up, its called supporting the club.
It's ironic that we are on 19 points half way through the season, and our aim is 40 points. He wasn't too far off, but considering the last 5 matches are tough, we'd need the 40 before entering that round of matches. That's something I'm not confident we'd have if AI was still here.No, we're on 17, which would give us 34 at the end of the season.
Hopefully someone like Pulis will come in and kick some ass.
Whoever we get, I really hope we give them plenty of time. Save us this season and progress next season.
West Bromwich Albion
â€@WBAFCofficial
2- A sombre day for staff at The Hawthorns because we have said farewell to a man of great class and dignity #bestwishesAlan
Very classy from the club.
West Bromwich Albion
â€@WBAFCofficial
2- A sombre day for staff at The Hawthorns because we have said farewell to a man of great class and dignity #bestwishesAlan
Very classy from the club.
Pepe Mel was a total clown who didn't do anything for WBA.
West Bromwich Albion
â€@WBAFCofficial
2- A sombre day for staff at The Hawthorns because we have said farewell to a man of great class and dignity #bestwishesAlan
Very classy from the club.
West Bromwich AlbionGood lord , are we having a minutes silence at the next home game ?
â€@WBAFCofficial
2- A sombre day for staff at The Hawthorns because we have said farewell to a man of great class and dignity #bestwishesAlan
Very classy from the club.
Good lord , are we having a minutes silence at the next home game ?
I think Legend is running the official twitter account :D
So why wasn't there similar for Mel who was very dignified despite being seemingly undermined.
Irvine has not died, he has lost his job, part and parcel of being involved in football coaching/ management, nice man or not.
Doesn't mean people who work at the club cannot be unhappy that a popular colleague has lost his job.
Perhaps Mel wasn't so highly regarded within the club.
The players should have performed better for him then!
The players will be gutted he's left, they worked their socks off for him but didn't get the luck in some games.That's what you get for having "favourites".
The players should have performed better for him then!
That's what you get for having "favourites".
The players will be gutted he's left, they worked their socks off for him but didn't get the luck in some games.
I don't think he's the sort of bloke to have favourites, he just picked the team he believed was best for that certain game.Either way, once it was clear that certain players weren't playing well and weren't getting the results, he should have handed the likes of Gamboa and Blanco a chance instead of ruthlessly persisting. Anyhow, water under the bridge now, and wish him all the best.
I don't think he's the sort of bloke to have favourites, he just picked the team he believed was best for that certain game.
The players will be gutted he's left, they worked their socks off for him but didn't get the luck in some games.some players will probably be glad he's gone. they haven't worked their socks off for him, and finally we cant blame luck.
really?? I think he was to timid to "risk"" anyone who was not established in the "cabal"
We really do have some classless fans. Quite ashamed to support WBA at the moment.
We really do have some classless fans. Quite ashamed to support WBA at the moment.
We really do have some classless fans. Quite ashamed to support WBA at the moment.
He dropped Olsson, kept McAuley and Mulumbu on the bench. Three established players. I wonder if Pulis for example had his favourites at Stoke who fans didn't want in the team, I'd say he probably did.
No, simply because the way Irvine has been treated. He was a great bloke and whilst I agree he was out of his depth I think some of the comments that have been wrote about him are out of order and rude. And some of the abuse he got at Stoke was shocking, if that was any other club we would all be saying how embarrassing it was.
I just hope the new head coach is god, because this bunch of players isn't good enough...just remember that.
Pepe Mel was a total clown who didn't do anything for WBA.
We really do have some classless fans. Quite ashamed to support WBA at the moment.
No, simply because the way Irvine has been treated. He was a great bloke and whilst I agree he was out of his depth I think some of the comments that have been wrote about him are out of order and rude. And some of the abuse he got at Stoke was shocking, if that was any other club we would all be saying how embarrassing it was.
I just hope the new head coach is god, because this bunch of players isn't good enough...just remember that.
Tony Pulis will not work under JP...he has too much to say for himself.
Tony Pulis will not work under JP...he has too much to say for himself.you do not know that at all, if talks are going on between albion and pulis which it seems they are according to media outlets, would you support the appointment and see it as a better chance to stay in this league because that's what really matters not how nice a guy is.
No it doesn't but it also doesn't mean they have to go overboard for a bloke employed for 6 months as though he has died.
What next minute silence against Gateshead ?
Mel may not have been regarded highly but he was just as dignified when he was forced out.
I'm ashamed of the supporters of this club who are happy to accept mediocrity and rubbish. They're just as much as a loser as Irvine.
Yea big shout out to all those fans that unconditionally support the team and manager, they are a massive scourge on this football club....
I don't think he's the sort of bloke to have favourites, he just picked the team he believed was best for that certain game.
Yeah I think Dangerman is spot on. You have your views, I have mine. People disagree and that's football. Irvine's gone and clearly there's a lot of emotion that people are acting on right now.
What needs to happen is for everyone to take a step back and realise that the constant infighting does nothing to help us, and when the new head coach is appointed, unite behind him regardless of who it is (assuming it's a straight fight between Pulis and Sherwood).
Yeah I think Dangerman is spot on. You have your views, I have mine. People disagree and that's football. Irvine's gone and clearly there's a lot of emotion that people are acting on right now.
What needs to happen is for everyone to take a step back and realise that the constant infighting does nothing to help us, and when the new head coach is appointed, unite behind him regardless of who it is (assuming it's a straight fight between Pulis and Sherwood).
Agreed!
Unless its warnock then we can get emotional ;D
what we don't want to happen now is for the fans to be divided.
Totally agree, time for all the back biting, pettiness to stop. Irvine has gone regardless of how people felt about him.Agree. :-X
Time to move on as a club and fanbase.
I didn't go this season for the fact I didn't agree with Irvine. Does that make me a lesser of a fan who's been going no matter what for 40years? No it doesn't.Course it does. I have far greater respect for someone who pumps their money into the club for 40 years following the team home and away compared to someone who spat their dummy out because they didn't like the manager who was appointed.
Course it does. I have far greater respect for someone who pumps their money into the club for 40 years following the team home and away compared to someone who spat their dummy out because they didn't like the manager who was appointed.
Course it does. I have far greater respect for someone who pumps their money into the club for 40 years following the team home and away compared to someone who spat their dummy out because they didn't like the manager who was appointed.
On the flip side I have less respect for someone who plows their money into the club blindly and then moans about it. You either accept it warts and all or make a choice not to go. Or you come here and let off a bit of steam.
I'm not going to get into an argument about who is the better fan. I've spend lots of money, time and emotion on the albion only for them to let me down again and again.
I'm confident that I am a decent fan who cares about the albion. I don't have to prove to anyone that I am better than someone else.
We really do have some classless fans. Quite ashamed to support WBA at the moment.So there can't be any personal criticism of Irvine in your book, yet it's OK for you to call Pepe Mel a "total clown"? A tad two-faced on your part perhaps?
My argument is not personal, I'm not saying you personally, I'm generalising. But for me you support the club regardless of manager. My original post was aimed at a remark which branded people losers for supporting Irvine.. I chose to support Irvine, its in my nature to back whoever is in charge, I don't think that makes me a loser.
He dropped Olsson, kept McAuley and Mulumbu on the bench. Three established players. I wonder if Pulis for example had his favourites at Stoke who fans didn't want in the team, I'd say he probably did.
Olsson had been carrying a long term injury which was affecting his form, he went to USA to get it sorted, on long term recovery now. so not dropped,
Mulla was dropped for "tactical" reasons (IMO) Gardner/ Morrisson were likely seen as better ball retention options.
G Mac, was injured and dawson came in alongside Lescott and did really well, G.Mac had to wait for his chance to get back in
for sure managers have preferences which we will not all agree with, however as many have stated when something is not working it is madness to persist with it.
Can you tell me what the logic of playing Dorrans out wide is?
Why would you bring Mulla on when 2-0 down ?
Why take sess off time and time again, if its fitness that flies in the face of all AI preached about fitness
I could go on ad nauseum
Inflexible, rigid, timid, stubborn call it what you will, it was what we were warned about and its exactly what we got.
Anyway he's gone, we wish him well, now we move on and hopefully get back to enjoying some exciting footy.
COYB
My argument is not personal, I'm not saying you personally, I'm generalising. But for me you support the club regardless of manager. My original post was aimed at a remark which branded people losers for supporting Irvine.. I chose to support Irvine, its in my nature to back whoever is in charge, I don't think that makes me a loser.
Bring on one defensive player so the other players currently on the pitch can get forward more.
Pepe Mel was a total clown who didn't do anything for WBA.
We really do have some classless fans. Quite ashamed to support WBA at the moment.
its nowt to do with WBA, every club has them, if anything we likely have less than most.
Alan Irvine was streets ahead of Pepe Mel. Ask anyone at the club, Mel didn't have a clue, Irvine on the other hand did. A lot of football people have come out and said the same about Irvine.
If its Pulis or Sherwood then I certainly wont be wasting my money on tickets anymore...one is a dinosaur and the other has less experience than AI...never felt so depressed in 50 years of loyal support...
Have to agree. It would have been nice for Irvine to get the support from the fans that Mel did but never mind.
Alan Irvine was streets ahead of Pepe Mel. Ask anyone at the club, Mel didn't have a clue, Irvine on the other hand did. A lot of football people have come out and said the same about Irvine.
A lot of football people losing a lot of respect for WBA at the moment.
It would have been nice for Mel to get the support from certain players and coaching staff that Irvine did but never mind.
A lot of football people losing a lot of respect for WBA at the moment.Name one.
Sherwood is just full of waffle and would be a disaster for us.
It would have been nice for Mel to get the support from certain players and coaching staff that Irvine did but never mind.
Alan Irvine was streets ahead of Pepe Mel. Ask anyone at the club, Mel didn't have a clue, Irvine on the other hand did. A lot of football people have come out and said the same about Irvine.Don't know how you can say that, Pepe Mel wasn't a saint but he got more points per game in comparison to Alan Irvine, so how does that make Pele Mel any worse?
If a head coach/manager can't get the support from the players then he's not good enough to manage them. Players will respond to a manager who knows what he's doing.
Seems that was too much to ask.
Unless i'm mistaken both will have the same coaching qualifications, yet one is a clown and the other a genius by the sounds of it. Both had same time in charge and both had mediocre results yet one apparently did nothing but still gets the blame for those mediocre results.
Roberto MartinezNo, you stated there were football people who had lost respect for WBA as a club in light of Sherwood being considered. That's a totally separate issue.
Gary Neville
Mark Lawrenson
Have all criticised the decision to sack Irvine.
If a head coach/manager can't get the support from the players then he's not good enough to manage them. Players will respond to a manager who knows what he's doing.
Roberto Martinez
Gary Neville
Mark Lawrenson
Have all criticised the decision to sack Irvine.
Not really. Players should be open to new ideas whether they initially think they are right or not. Players are players not managers, not coaches. Players paid handsomely to do a job.
The way this club has been run the past two years has been a shambles.
Irvine was not the only problem, Peace and Burton are two of the major problems.
We really do have some classless fans. Quite ashamed to support WBA at the moment.
Don't know how you can say that, Pepe Mel wasn't a saint but he got more points per game in comparison to Alan Irvine, so how does that make Pele Mel any worse?
Pepe Mel had Berahino, Anichebe and Theivy up front.
Alan Irvine had Berahino, Anichebe, Ideye, Samaras up front.
Pepe Mel had Ridgewell and Reid at the back.
Alan Irvine had Poco and Wisdom/Gamboa.
The quality of players at Irvine's disposal was far better, and he still got less points per game...
Players probably knew he was taking us down so spoke up. Mel's lack of English probably didn't help as the players couldn't understand him. Downing and Kiely saved us if it's to be believed.
Furthermore the Alan Irvine song was one of the most distasteful songs I've heard about an employee of our club.
As for some of you wondering why there is a certain love fest for AI perhaps its because he was a hard working, caring and decent guy who worked day and night to make the club a success. Yes he has failed and has rightly been dismissed but some of the abuse dished out towards him was unacceptable.
Oh I see Kiely and Downing are still employed and Kiely is likely to be kept on. Untouchable that guy.
Players probably knew he was taking us down so spoke up. Mel's lack of English probably didn't help as the players couldn't understand him. Downing and Kiely saved us if it's to be believed.
A thought springs to mind . Was steve Clarke still on gardening leave when he picked up the reading job . The timing of Irvine going has matched Clarke getting a job . This will be our 4th manager in 12 months which is a shambles .No - Steve Clarke's 2 year contract with us (and his gardening leave) ended last June/July.
Irvine and Premier League refs. Why not support Albion instead?
This is the thing which really gets on my nerves - the players were just as rubbish under Steve Clarke, could they not understand him either?
Roberto MartinezThey're all experts on Albion of course - I'm sure they watch all of our games.....
Gary Neville
Mark Lawrenson
Have all criticised the decision to sack Irvine.
They're all experts on Albion of course - I'm sure they watch all of our games.....
In his reaction to Irvine's sacking, Neville said something along the lines of "West Brom are currently 16th, that's their position isn't it, the best they can hope to aim for?"
Sick of this "hark working, decent guy" line that I keep hearing. You know what that screams to me? LOSER. And that is exactly what Alan Irvine is.
Why on earth don't some of you want more for this football club? Fed up of our supporters and this "happy to be here" attitude, we're better than that.
I do support WBA thanks, home and away season ticket holder for 14 years.
Brilliant comeback Aidan ;DDeluded hope he would be successful, most of us knew if pepe Mel was backed we would be fine. All we can hope for is pulis and not some yes man. Yes we all had an agenda what is best for this football club and some of us backed that up unlike the Churchill nodding dogs
Like yourself I have defended Irvine's cause in the hope he would be successful, many others on here have expressed their displeasure but vowed to support him during matches, fair play but there has been a sinister under current from a proportion of West Brom fans both at games & on here, an agenda that meant AI would never be accepted, well you got your wish people, JP caved & now it's time for the nextvictimsorry Coach to take his place in the WBA hotseat/poison challis on a new one month rolling contract, pointless giving him anymore just incase the fans don't like him.
AND the worst thing to come out of it all.................... Jacko's back out of retirement..............again ::)
Deluded hope he would be successful, most of us knew if pepe Mel was backed we would be fine. All we can hope for is pulis and not some yes man. Yes we all had an agenda what is best for this football club and some of us backed that up unlike the Churchill nodding dogs
Deluded hope he would be successful, most of us knew if pepe Mel was backed we would be fine. All we can hope for is pulis and not some yes man. Yes we all had an agenda what is best for this football club and some of us backed that up unlike the Churchill nodding dogsPrey tell me how anyone would know that?
Deluded hope he would be successful, most of us knew if pepe Mel was backed we would be fine. All we can hope for is pulis and not some yes man. Yes we all had an agenda what is best for this football club and some of us backed that up unlike the Churchill nodding dogsPepe Mel was like putting diesel into a petrol car. It doesn't work.
Sick of this "hark working, decent guy" line that I keep hearing. You know what that screams to me? LOSER. And that is exactly what Alan Irvine is.
Why on earth don't some of you want more for this football club? Fed up of our supporters and this "happy to be here" attitude, we're better than that.
Pepe Mel was like putting diesel into a petrol car. It doesn't work.
Most fans not old enough to have seen Albion PLAY Flair football were sick to death of the petrol cars they had seen for the last 10-15 years & were crying out to see the Diesel football of there fathers.Don't disagree with any of that at all.
This is getting like a merry go round PM v AI but what i would say 100% is that PM had more fans backing him than AI ever had.
Most fans not old enough to have seen Albion PLAY Flair football were sick to death of the petrol cars they had seen for the last 10-15 years & were crying out to see the Diesel football of there fathers.
This is getting like a merry go round PM v AI but what i would say 100% is that PM had more fans backing him than AI ever had.
Pepe Mel was like putting diesel into a petrol car. It doesn't work.It's interesting that those who've backed Irvine to the hilt all also seem to be as united in their derision of Pepe Mel. I really ought to check back to see if you were all as loyal towards Pepe when he was here as you've unflinchingly been to Irvine but, unfortunately, I can't be arsed!
It's interesting that those who've backed Irvine to the hilt all also seem to be as united in their derision of Pepe Mel. I really ought to check back to see if you were all as loyal towards Pepe when he was here as you've unflinchingly been to Irvine but, unfortunately, I can't be arsed!No need, you will see I was supportive of him and at the time felt he was let down by the club. I haven't at any point derided him but I am also not naive enough to believe he was the chosen one and recognised that he was not going to fit in at the Albion. I have also pointed out the hypocrisy of the treatment afforded to him when compared to Irvine ;)
No need, you will see I was supportive of him and at the time felt he was let down by the club. I haven't at any point derided him but I am also not naive enough to believe he was the chosen one and recognised that he was not going to fit in at the Albion. I have also pointed out the hypocrisy of the treatment afforded to him when compared to Irvine ;)I think the fact that the players appeared to get rid of Mel, made him a martyr far more than his performance.
Roberto Martinez
Gary Neville
Mark Lawrenson
Have all criticised the decision to sack Irvine.
It's interesting that those who've backed Irvine to the hilt all also seem to be as united in their derision of Pepe Mel. I really ought to check back to see if you were all as loyal towards Pepe when he was here as you've unflinchingly been to Irvine but, unfortunately, I can't be arsed!
The job is yours you Nasty barsteward! ;D
I think the fact that the players appeared to get rid of Mel, made him a martyr far more than his performance.The players are the club's greatest asset, whether that be right or wrong is a different conversation. To replace a squad is significantly more difficult than changing a coach.
The fact that these, mostly, overpaid primadonas could hold so much sway with our club, really stuck in our craw.
I have always rated Martin Jol very highly and if it wasn't for his lack of interest in football at the moment, i'd be getting him in ASAP.
I can see what your saying about me and my comments about Irvine and Pepe.
I liked Irvine a lot and I thought he was unlucky, but Mel by all accounts was out of his depth at the club, nice bloke of course.
I have always rated Martin Jol very highly and if it wasn't for his lack of interest in football at the moment, i'd be getting him in ASAP.they are both nice blokes.
I can see what your saying about me and my comments about Irvine and Pepe.
I liked Irvine a lot and I thought he was unlucky, but Mel by all accounts was out of his depth at the club, nice bloke of course.
Brilliant comeback Aidan ;D
Like yourself I have defended Irvine's cause in the hope he would be successful, many others on here have expressed their displeasure but vowed to support him during matches, fair play but there has been a sinister under current from a proportion of West Brom fans both at games & on here, an agenda that meant AI would never be accepted, well you got your wish people, JP caved & now it's time for the nextvictimsorry Coach to take his place in the WBA hotseat/poison challis on a new one month rolling contract, pointless giving him anymore just incase the fans don't like him.
AND the worst thing to come out of it all.................... Jacko's back out of retirement..............again ::)
:-*
Yes Brilliant. Well done Aiden. How's Andre Marriner?
You know you've missed me DAMTCL.
Irvine was woeful. His demise inevitable. I can't believe the thread is still open. Say your goodbyes. Sounds like club are organising some sort of remembrance service for him based on an earlier tweet.
I have always rated Martin Jol very highly and if it wasn't for his lack of interest in football at the moment, i'd be getting him in ASAP.Think you're just towing the club's line tbh. Sometimes you need to use your critical thinking skills and consider alternative explanations than those forced upon us by those at the club.
I can see what your saying about me and my comments about Irvine and Pepe.
I liked Irvine a lot and I thought he was unlucky, but Mel by all accounts was out of his depth at the club, nice bloke of course.
Jacko, having you back is like a breath of stale air 8) now don't you go upsetting people ;D
The new gaffer will do that when he picks Brunty every week :D
As long as he keeps him out the centre I wouldn't be bothered :-*
See more bite in a Chihuahua puppy ;)
I hear he shed a few tears in the dressing room after the Stoke game.one things for sure he didn't deserve the verbal abuse.i hope he finds work in his comfort zoneChrist, feel sorry for the bloke. Where did you hear that?
Christ, feel sorry for the bloke. Where did you hear that?
John Cross wrote the story for the Mirror.
Unsurprisingly it was all over-exaggerated claiming Irvine received "shocking abuse" despite the fact it was Keith Downing who was the man who received the majority of the abuse from the away fans.
John Cross wrote the story for the Mirror.Yeah, I was there and right by the tunnel and he didn't get any "personal" abuse, just general booing. The only personal abuse was directed at Downing with "you dingle b*****d, get out of our club". Typical James Cross, pathetic "journalism".
Unsurprisingly it was all over-exaggerated claiming Irvine received "shocking abuse" despite the fact it was Keith Downing who was the man who received the majority of the abuse from the away fans.
I hear he shed a few tears in the dressing room after the Stoke game.one things for sure he didn't deserve the verbal abuse.i hope he finds work in his comfort zone
Thats not nice to hear.See my above post.
Shame on Albion fans for the abuse he has suffered
Yeah, I was there and right by the tunnel and he didn't get any "personal" abuse, just general booing. The only personal abuse was directed at Downing with "you dingle b*****d, get out of our club". Typical James Cross, pathetic "journalism".the blokes a knob and constantly writes bad reports about us.
Thats not nice to hear.
Shame on Albion fans for the abuse he has suffered
I hear he shed a few tears in the dressing room after the Stoke game.one things for sure he didn't deserve the verbal abuse.i hope he finds work in his comfort zone
He didn't get any verbal abuse. There were a few chants of sacked in the morning (started by the Stokies), you don't know what you're doing and thats it. All "abuse" was directed elsewhere. Whether the abuse is right or wrong is neither here nor there if reported inaccurately.
True.
not nice to hear though if AI had shed some tears after the game probably knowing that he had lost the job there and then, along with the abuse dished out to Downing and Kelly.
I don't like to hear that going on, ultimately KD & RK have worked hard for this club even if it hasn't worked out.
I'd be crying too £750k a year.I wanted a new manager as much as anyone, but not sure this is fair. Although the money is a nice bonus, I don't for a second think that was the main reason for him taking the job. Imagine being offered your dream job (regardless of how much you may or may not have deserved it), being so hugely determined to get it right, putting in every last drop of effort you have in you, wanting to be liked by the fans, and genuinely wanting to take that club forward, and it ending like it did in the most brutal of fashions. Although he didn't help himself with team selections, (and I wanted him sacked for that reason), I can't help but feel sorry for the guy. Seems like a genuinely nice man- had it have been someone else, I probably wouldn't have cared (in fact I couldn't care less about the abuse for Downing, and wouldn't care if Kiely was abused either- it's much easier for them, hiding in the background). As I said, obviously wasn't the right man for the job- not a leader or a winner- and didn't have the record to justify him being offered it in the first place, but you're not human if you can't feel at least a bit of empathy for him after that.
No sympathy for the man, I don't care how upset he is. He's not suffered as much heartbreak (melodramatic I know) as he's caused imo.
Mike graham of talk sport welcoming calls about the abuse of Alan Irvine. He's not happy and wants it stamped out in 2015. I feel it's being blown out of proportion possibly. You folk there say there was no abuse towards him
True.I've been shedding tears everytime i have come out of the games this season!!
not nice to hear though if AI had shed some tears after the game probably knowing that he had lost the job there and then, along with the abuse dished out to Downing and Kelly.
I don't like to hear that going on, ultimately KD & RK have worked hard for this club even if it hasn't worked out.
Mike graham of talk sport welcoming calls about the abuse of Alan Irvine. He's not happy and wants it stamped out in 2015. I feel it's being blown out of proportion possibly. You folk there say there was no abuse towards him
Mike graham of talk sport welcoming calls about the abuse of Alan Irvine. He's not happy and wants it stamped out in 2015. I feel it's being blown out of proportion possibly. You folk there say there was no abuse towards him
Gillingham have sacked Peter Taylor - perhaps a position Alan Irvine may be more suited to! Not wishing to be disrespectful to AI in that he had spells at SWeds & PNE but this is probably better for him at this time - still feel he is a coach as opposed to a manager
The disgusting way our so called fans treated Alan Irvine, a great coach, leaves me in turmoil. Some years ago I sat in the Smethwick end and realised that was the pits. I have supported the "Baggies" since 1953 and will forevermore. It is sickening.
The disgusting way our so called fans treated Alan Irvine, a great coach, leaves me in turmoil. Some years ago I sat in the Smethwick end and realised that was the pits. I have supported the "Baggies" since 1953 and will forevermore. It is sickening.
Some years ago I sat in the Smethwick end and realised that was the pits.
Where is the proof he was a great coach? I agree with the you regarding the treatment he received after the Stoke game, however, was that not a signal to JP that enough is enough!!
It`s true that some of our fans never gave the bloke a chance from day one. It`s also my opinion after being amongst our fans at Stoke, that Downing was quickly taking over from AI as public enemy number 1. Terrible abuse for KD & mainly because he's had the misfortune to play for Wolves. Let`s remember that we`ve also got Jolson Lescott playing within earshot of those chants & he was probably squirming after hearing that.Good post well said. We don't know the full story as to what goes on for instance it has been said Downing kept us up as Mel was struggling?
Personally, I DID give AI my backing & sung his name in a positive way, from my position in the stand, & i`ll do the same for whoever takes the role on, it`s the club I support & not the individual.
It`s true that some of our fans never gave the bloke a chance from day one. It`s also my opinion after being amongst our fans at Stoke, that Downing was quickly taking over from AI as public enemy number 1. Terrible abuse for KD & mainly because he's had the misfortune to play for Wolves. Let`s remember that we`ve also got Jolson Lescott playing within earshot of those chants & he was probably squirming after hearing that.
Personally, I DID give AI my backing & sung his name in a positive way, from my position in the stand, & i`ll do the same for whoever takes the role on, it`s the club I support & not the individual.
What treatment after the Stoke game ?This argument is a bit like saying the Holocaust did not happen because you didn't happen to see it. I have no doubt it is blown out of proportion but there appear to be enough independent witnesses to say that it occurred.
He did not get the "shocking abuse" as falsely claimed in the Mirror by the reporter who was not even at the same game. The abuse at the end was aimed at Downing more than anyone.
All Irvine got was sacked in the morning (started by Stokies) and you don't know what you're doing. Thats it.
I backed him during games and sang his name despite not wanting him and in the main fans were very patient. The first time I heard anything towards him was at QPR
This argument is a bit like saying the Holocaust did not happen because you didn't happen to see it. I have no doubt it is blown out of proportion but there appear to be enough independent witnesses to say that it occurred.
Irvine had a fair chance and failed, nothing to do with the fans who were more than patient with him. Move on.
I don't think he had a fair chance and he didn't fail as firstly he leaves us out the relegation zone and secondly he could have turned it around. Anyway this is my last post on Irvine I promise. :P
I don't think he had a fair chance and he didn't fail as firstly he leaves us out the relegation zone and secondly he could have turned it around. Anyway this is my last post on Irvine I promise. :P
This argument is a bit like saying the Holocaust did not happen because you didn't happen to see it. I have no doubt it is blown out of proportion but there appear to be enough independent witnesses to say that it occurred.This simply isn't true. I was at the game too, and can echo everything Oldbury, and others at the game have said. Seems to only be people who didn't go talking about this personal "abuse" Irvine supposedly suffered from.
This simply isn't true. I was at the game too, and can echo everything Oldbury, and others at the game have said. Seems to only be people who didn't go talking about this personal "abuse" Irvine supposedly suffered from.
I too was at the Stoke game, my 6 penneth worth is that along with the 'sacked in the morning' & 'you don't know what you're doing' chants, I also heard a rendition (albeit by very few) of 'Irvine out" & there was also the obligatory booing (strange how the players were actually applauded :-[ ), so to say he was or wasn't abused, would, I guess depend on the level of how easily offended you are, I personally just cringed.
I'm pretty sure the 'you dingle b*****d, get out of our club' was abuse aimed at Downing & his association to wolves.
I was also at the game. Loud renditions of you're getting sacked in the morning after both goals. This after giving a great reception when they came out 2nd half. Then you don't know what you're doing when Sessegnon was substituted and loud booing as Irvine walked to the tunnel. Clear dissension but NOT abuse. That was reserved for Downing.Yep, all correct.
So no shocking personal abuse then ?
Was there a reason given for Kelly and not Downing giving the press conference ?
As I said depends on how easily offended you are, some very angry individuals giving it loads at the end, as helpfully highlighted by the BBC!
I'm not offended by anything to be honest (does help when you're moderating on here :D )
Still no shocking abuse aimed at Irvine though mate.
To be honest, I'm not sure where the 'shocking abuse' comment originated, I reckon if it was that reporter who came out with it (who wasn't even at the game) he probably picked up on what's already been said on here & also saw those angry chappies at the end of the game vociferously aiming their displeasure in the direction of the coaching staff.
Wonder if Irvine has been stood in his back garden all afternoon staring at his watch?
the thread should be closed and all reference to Alan Irvine deleted so we can forget the nightmare ever happenedWell hopefully your crazy comment won't be the last word on it.
Unfortunately his legacy lived on with today's team selectionWhen the 2nd Sub was made as I was working so not see all the game.The camera panned to Pulis and he said something another guy (his assistant) got up and the sub was made. So I think he was getting his feet in.
However Pullis and his instructions and substitutions (particularly Jacob) saved a point for us that was the least we deserved ;)
For the people banging on about the players loving irvine, 2 have already came out and supported pulis. Foster and brunt, shows to me they may just be told to be positive about the manager. Think foster put a dig into rob Kelly, irvine and downing today by saying that we weren't really looking to score and that's what pulis wants us to do by being more positive. Kind of shows me that we weren't very adventurous and the players know that.
I have some sympathy for Irvine now he has gone, but, I have hated this season with the Albion, I was close to finishing my interest because it was too depressing, too boring and that coupled with the irritation of the greed league, left me turning to ambivalence to protect my well being.Good post.I gave him time but was obvious to me he was no good! WBA fans and Everton said the same...was a car crash! Peace needs to stick with Pulis or he is feckked!
I am rarely impressed with player comments, they are usually insincere because on the whole they are purely self serving individuals, their primary concern is maintaining a Premiership salary, so I did not buy any of their Irvine comments, the King is dead, long live the King.
I give JP some credit for recognising his mistake and taking the best corrective action available, hopefully the experiment with novice coaches is over, Irvine should never have been appointed, but at least he realised that and I suspect that we have been courting Pulis for a few weeks, behind the scenes. Irvine knew his time was up and his distress at Stoke showed he does not have a thick enough skin for management.
Irvine will return to coaching kids, he should remain in his comfort zone.
Wonder if Irvine has been stood in his back garden all afternoon staring at his watch?
I hope he get can a job in the Championship and prove that he's good enough to be the number one man.
I hope he get can a job in the Championship and prove that he's good enough to be the number one man.I was very critical of his team selection, and that's what led me to wanting a new head coach (and a whole new coaching team), but he gave everything he had for us to be successful and seems like a genuinely decent man so I really hope he will be a success as a manager elsewhere too.
Was he a good coach? Undoubtedly
I'm still looking forward to someone providing some evidence to back this up, as many people keep saying it but no-one can point at a single thing that Albion players showed on the pitch whilst he was here which indicates it.
Does it matter? Just let him go with some grace. Why do you feel the need to slaughter him?
I usually don't read anything into players' interviews but some comments re: Pulis by Chris Brunt did jump out at me.
“I don’t think that there will be any grey areas with him, which is a good thing because having grey areas costs teams points in this league."
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11698/9628347/premier-league-chris-brunt-says-tony-pulis-is-perfect-fit-for-west-brom
It's conceivable that he wasn't referring specifically to Irvine and was talking about experiences and bad spells under Mowbray, RDM and Mel in the Premier League but it is very clear that he believes that their is the potential for the players to receive more detailed preparation and work on the training ground without being overwhelmed/worked and can only be aided, not restricted, by specific instructions on match days.
I hope he get can a job in the Championship and prove that he's good enough to be the number one man.
I'm still looking forward to someone providing some evidence to back this up, as many people keep saying it but no-one can point at a single thing that Albion players showed on the pitch whilst he was here which indicates it.
It appears that poor old Alan may have been right all along and that the players we were all clamouring for were not actually any good.
Pulis has come in and none of Varela, Gamboa, Samaras, Ideye or Blanco have had any more game time than under Irvine, with most, if not all, likely to be shipped out.
Looks like he was right royally stitched up by our shoddy recruitment department.
It appears that poor old Alan may have been right all along and that the players we were all clamouring for were not actually any good.I partly blame Irvine for some of those players , he checked with Lennon over Samaras and I read he watched Gamboa at the World Cup. In fairness Varela came injured but was said to be fit weeks before he made the bench , Brown to me just looks like a forward hugely low on confidence which isn't a surprise being as he didn't really get a fair run . I'm not saying they were great buys but it's hard to judge them in our shirts when they barely played.As we know Irvine stuck with the same old !
Pulis has come in and none of Varela, Gamboa, Samaras, Ideye or Blanco have had any more game time than under Irvine, with most, if not all, likely to be shipped out.
Looks like he was right royally stitched up by our shoddy recruitment department.
Irvine knew fully well what he was signing up for, same as Pepe Mel.Not defending him, I'm glad he's gone, just highlighting how shoddy our summer recruitment was.
Clearly the summer signings weren't ideal, however that still doesn't explain the constant absence of Mulumbu and Yacob, and for a good part McAuley wasn't used either.
Think we saw enough of Varela to know that he had some class and ability - he just wasn't fit (he did have an Op remember) until just before Christmas......clearly Pulis has decided he'd prefer a different type.
Gamboa also clearly has ability but just doesn't fit the Pulis method either.
What's happened is the very thing that the director of football model is supposed to avoid.....players being purchased which are then unsuitable when a new manager comes in.
He's right to be sore in my opinion, he should have been given more time and it's a shame he wasn't given that chance. I think Peace wouldn't have been so hasty if the supporters hadn't of turned. I hope Alan gets a job in management in the Championship because I think he's more than capable of managing at that level and eventually Premier League. Top coach, top man.
He should never have been appointed in the first place, the biggest blunder on a major scale.Even he knew he wasnt up to it so he should never have taken it
failed as a manager wherever he has been, the bloke is delusional thinking he was going to be a success certainly at this level. Stick to coaching the kids Al
He's right to be sore in my opinion, he should have been given more time and it's a shame he wasn't given that chance. I think Peace wouldn't have been so hasty if the supporters hadn't of turned. I hope Alan gets a job in management in the Championship because I think he's more than capable of managing at that level and eventually Premier League. Top coach, top man.
The supporters turned because the results were not forthcoming and the football in the most part was dire.
Looking forward to after our next two home games. ???
(and to turn would suggest that you had supported him from the start, which wasn't the case for lots of people on here ;))
Looking forward to after our next two home games. ???
(and to turn would suggest that you had supported him from the start, which wasn't the case for lots of people on here ;))
There's a big difference between 'wanting' him here and 'supporting him'. I, like many others I imagine, did not want him here, but got behind him until the point when it became clear he wasnt up to the job!Apart from away games. ;)
Surely our home performances and results point to the fact we were underperforming under Irvine!?! Or is it that Pulis is overachieving??? Either way it suggests we have made the right call in getting rid of someone who has failed in all managerial roles (Head Coach in our instance) and replaced him with someone who knows how to win!
Apart from away games. ;)
Pat yourself on the back mate if it makes you feel better.
I didn't want him, I was prepared to give him a chance and did that but he was not upto the job and should never have got it. Lets see who comes calling for him when his gardening pay packs up.
The point I have been trying to make is how distorted the reaction is between Pulis and Irvine. By the end of the season I can foresee us having 5 or (hopefully) 6 league victories under Pulis and we had 5 under Irvine. Our worst league performances have arguably come under Pulis away and yet he is continued to be worshipped almost as a genius and Irvine as an incompetent.
Irvine's history has been held against him but how often did Pulis fail at lower league teams before he found some success at Stoke (which he got dismissed from the first time and spent two years unemployed) and how many times has he left clubs "under a cloud" (his transfer policy being called into question at both Stoke and Palace).
TP is our coach but he isn't, for me, a significant improvement over Irvine but I believe the team will stay in the Premier League under him (as I still believe we would have under Irvine too.. Leicester, QPR, Sunderland and Burnley are not as good as we were/are under either coach)
The point I have been trying to make is how distorted the reaction is between Pulis and Irvine. By the end of the season I can foresee us having 5 or (hopefully) 6 league victories under Pulis and we had 5 under Irvine. Our worst league performances have arguably come under Pulis away and yet he is continued to be worshipped almost as a genius and Irvine as an incompetent.
Irvine's history has been held against him but how often did Pulis fail at lower league teams before he found some success at Stoke (which he got dismissed from the first time and spent two years unemployed) and how many times has he left clubs "under a cloud" (his transfer policy being called into question at both Stoke and Palace).
TP is our coach but he isn't, for me, a significant improvement over Irvine but I believe the team will stay in the Premier League under him (as I still believe we would have under Irvine too.. Leicester, QPR, Sunderland and Burnley are not as good as we were/are under either coach)
I remember his time with fondness, like when we used to have shots on goal when playing away, ah the memoriesLike Swansea away when we literally didn't have a shot on target? Or Newcastle and Everton at home when we got steam rolled?
Like Swansea away when we literally didn't have a shot on target? Or Newcastle and Everton at home when we got steam rolled?
Short memory...
Like Swansea away when we literally didn't have a shot on target? Or Newcastle and Everton at home when we got steam rolled?Swansea Away : 16 shots, 2 on target (which granted isn't great)
Short memory...
Swansea Away : 16 shots, 2 on target (which granted isn't great)Difference is, we got 1 point at Sunderland, Man City was always a loss.
Man City, Villa, Sunderland away: 11 shots, 2 on target.
Ineffective memory....
Difference is, we got 1 point at Sunderland, Man City was always a loss.
We also wouldn't have lost to Everton, West Ham, Newcastle at home. Irvine is currently jobless, Pulis is in great demand, I think that says it all.
Bit of context.
Only twice have we registered no shots on target in an away game this season.
Man City and Everton.
Irvine picked up 7 points away from home in 6 games of which 4 out of the 6 teams played are currently in the top 7.
Pulis has picked up 4 points away from home in 6 games (giving him West Ham) of which 3 out of the 6 teams are currently in the bottom five and only 1 in the top 7.
Bit of context.
Only twice have we registered no shots on target in an away game this season.
Man City and Everton.
Irvine picked up 7 points away from home in 6 games of which 4 out of the 6 teams played are currently in the top 7.
Pulis has picked up 4 points away from home in 6 games (giving him West Ham) of which 3 out of the 6 teams are currently in the bottom five and only 1 in the top 7.
Pulis is in great demand, I think that says it all.Pulis has also been an unemployed coach for about a year of the last 24 months (not on gardening leave either ;))
Would you like to compare the home games/performances?If you want :-*
Pulis has also been an unemployed coach for about a year of the last 24 months (not on gardening leave either ;))
If you want :-*
Go ahead...also compare their win percentages!Already had the apples and pears argument. :) We can compare win percentages at the end of the season. ;)
Whether for or against his appointment, I don't think anybody saw it coming.Wasn't a surprise at all and was probably the correct move, because without the crowd behind you it is usually a losing battle you are fighting. Current England manager failed to turn the crowd around at Liverpool who made their mind up before a ball was kicked and ended up getting sacked (inevitably).
Whether for or against his sacking, I think pretty much everbody saw it coming.
Wasn't a surprise at all and was probably the correct move, because without the crowd behind you it is usually a losing battle you are fighting. Current England manager failed to turn the crowd around at Liverpool who made their mind up before a ball was kicked and ended up getting sacked (inevitably).
He should never have been appointed in the first place, the biggest blunder on a major scale.Even he knew he wasnt up to it so he should never have taken it
Irvine and Pulis will both have contributed to keeping us in the Premier League if we do stay up, so for that he deserves credit as well as beating the Villa. This will be my last post on Irvine but I hope in his next job he gets the support and respect from the fans then maybe he'll have half a chance. :-X
I don't think he had a fair chance and he didn't fail as firstly he leaves us out the relegation zone and secondly he could have turned it around. Anyway this is my last post on Irvine I promise. :P
Can you really begrudge a man who is used to lower wages with Sheffield Wednesday and Preston for joining a premier league club? I agree he shouldn't of been appointed in the first place but I don't think you can.no is the answer to that, but it was a stupid appointment and one I will never understand, with such a poor track record it bordered on insanity to give him the head coach role of a premiership team that struggled the previous season and needed a team rebuild, it was like building a ship out of sand.
for all of you Alan Irvine supporters you can hear him on Taklsport between 6-7
Listening to him, it was obvious the summer recruiting was again a absolute shambles.
When he left we had 16 points from 17 games I think. Not horrendous and probably enough to keep us up if we continued in a similar fashion. With his reputation he needed to be excelling but he was going close to okayish points wise which wasn't enough for people to have confidence in him. With someone like Pulis available it was really a no brainer to change. Deserved better treatment from some fans even if there perceptions of him being out of his depth were correct, he was a dignified man and worked hard to attempt to succeed.
Terry BUrton out ?
Surely his position is untenable
After the Stoke away game we had 18 points from 20 games (which would give us 34 points after 38 games)
Under TP we have picked up 15 points in 11 games (which would put us on 51 points after 38 games) So how can their records be similar? Pulis is far ahead of Irvine on points gained from games played.
Pulis games have been against far easier opposition though. Irvine played pretty much every team in the league whilst Pulis still has to play Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal.
Lets say we get 4 points from our remaining games which would come from a win against Leicester and a point at either Newcastle or Palace (obviously we don't know what will happen but I think 4 points is a pretty realistic projection, especially with Pulis approaches to away games)
That gives Pulis a total of 19 from 18 games which whilst enough to keep is up is nowhere near the 51 points you project.
The points we have got so far from the games we have played is pretty much the minimum you would expect from those games across a season in order to stay up.
Pulis games have been against far easier opposition though. Irvine played pretty much every team in the league whilst Pulis still has to play Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal.
Lets say we get 4 points from our remaining games which would come from a win against Leicester and a point at either Newcastle or Palace (obviously we don't know what will happen but I think 4 points is a pretty realistic projection, especially with Pulis approaches to away games)
That gives Pulis a total of 19 from 18 games which whilst enough to keep is up is nowhere near the 51 points you project.
The points we have got so far from the games we have played is pretty much the minimum you would expect from those games across a season in order to stay up.
Far easier opposition?? How do you work that one out?
Also going by your logic that means AI also played the same teams that Pulis has and didnt pick up the required points in those games.
Your looking at things from a perspective of win the next game and draw one and then lose the rest to get to your conclusion which is all hypothetical. When if you break down the points gained by Pulis over the course of a season it would equate to around the 50 point mark.
He's on MOTD2 tonight. I shall watch with interest.
Have I missed him? Just tuned in.
Didn't end good but shout out to Irvine for getting us points combined with Pulis seeing us to safety.
1 point above the drop zone, 4 wins and 22% win rate when he left
Should never have got this job and I hope the days of untried, untested coaches are in the past.
Man utd game at home was good along with spurs away probably the best ones off Irvine campaign good football and tidy results I do agree though we was only heading one way but he gave it he's best and I wish him good luck in he's next job.
My post a couple of weeks ago mentioning Pepe Mel had got Real Betis promoted was deleted without explanation.
So, is this topic any more relevant?
No it wasn't deleted, it was merged into the following topic about Pepe Mel
http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=13954.msg383876#msg383876
Usually worth looking around the forum before claiming we delete things without reason.
Just to add why this topic is still in the main forum, its because he hasn't got another job yet, when he does it will be locked/ moved to General Sports.
Anyone been down the garden centre recently? Loves a plant does alan.
Not in the near future, alan these days takes time in watering his garden plants as it makes him relaxed. Besides, another year in being on a leash with alan titsmarsh breathing down his neck wouldnt be on the cards. Not after kiely and downing in previous times. 100% ITK
are we likely to see him hosting ground force
are we likely to see him hosting ground force
I'd welcome him back as a coach, still has a lot to offer.
What is so strange about it? This is what happens every time we sack a manager and a place them on gardening leave.
He was on a 12 month rolling contract until the summer so i'm assuming we have to pay him a years salary for a full year from the point he was sacked?
He'll walk into a job in the Championship, top class coach who did some good things here.
He'll walk into a job in the Championship, top class coach who did some good things here.
He'll walk into a job in the Championship, top class coach who did some good things here.
Time to let it go mate! He would have taken us down if he had stayed.Not picking side here and not having a go, so read as a question and not with anger, but he's not mentioned that he should of stayed... you've just jumped on him for saying he did some good things. Not allowed positive feedback? are we only allowed to write how utterly useless he was and never acknowledge he did a few things right? I don't see that as particularly fair either way. It's like thinking Pulis is great and does nothing wrong.
Not picking side here and not having a go, so read as a question and not with anger, but he's not mentioned that he should of stayed... you've just jumped on him for saying he did some good things. Not allowed positive feedback? are we only allowed to write how utterly useless he was and never acknowledge he did a few things right? I don't see that as particularly fair either way. It's like thinking Pulis is great and does nothing wrong.
What is so strange about it? This is what happens every time we sack a manager and a place them on gardening leave.
My reply was not said with anger. Just my opinion.No, not YOUR reply, mine. I didn't want it read as me being angry with what you had said.
It is understood the 56-year-old Scot – keen to seek new managerial opportunities - approached Albion to see if he would be able to walk away now with a proportion of the money owedThat's what I was thinking as makes sense all round?
Surely We would save money by letting him go now for less than paying him to Jan.
It is understood the 56-year-old Scot – keen to seek new managerial opportunities - approached Albion to see if he would be able to walk away now with a proportion of the money owed
Surely We would save money by letting him go now for less than paying him to Jan.
No, not YOUR reply, mine. I didn't want it read as me being angry with what you had said.
Never in a million years is he a head coach, his level would be coaching kids somewhere
Applied for a job he got it, Out of hes depth as anyone on this board would be too, I will say one thing them games against man united at home, Tottenham and Southampton away was brilliant nowhere near enough of them but the exact same can be said about pulis west ham and chelsea at home fantastic entertaining games of football, Pulis is without question the better manager but i have only seen one of them try to play football away from home.
Applied for a job he got it, Out of hes depth as anyone on this board would be too, I will say one thing them games against man united at home, Tottenham and Southampton away was brilliant nowhere near enough of them but the exact same can be said about pulis west ham and chelsea at home fantastic entertaining games of football, Pulis is without question the better manager but i have only seen one of them try to play football away from home.
We headhunted him which makes his appointment even more farcical.
QPR away we played some great stuff until we collapsed.
Exactly...there was no backbone or structure to the team under Irvine! What's the point in playing some "great stuff" for 30 mins only to fold like a pack of cards afterwards???
QPR away we played some great stuff until we collapsed.
We headhunted him which makes his appointment even more farcical.
more farcical still is the fact we're still paying his wages and have opted out of an early cut off so we will still be paying him until December :o
"Apart from the hat-trick we handled Charlie Austin pretty well"
Yeah... what do you say to something like that? Mind boggling doesn't even come close. It is far beyond facepalm too. You just give up don't you.
Why else would you keep him on payroll for? Its not as though we are saving much, unless we want to avoid a compensation package which is normally paying his contract up in any event.
Any other thoughts on this?
We would BUT I would imagine that it would 'tip the books' at a time when they're still being poured over by our potential buyer, so I can see why JP has told him to sling his hook until the sale is done.This is probably right but also means that Peace will not want to mess up the finances by paying transfer fees during the next month or so. It looks like we go with what we have !!
This is probably right but also means that Peace will not want to mess up the finances by paying transfer fees during the next month or so. It looks like we go with what we have !!
1. Paying him off monthly staggers the financial obligation.
2. If anybody wishes to employ him whilst still on our payroll they will have to offer compensation, as he is still technically an employee of West Bromwich Albion.
"Apart from the hat-trick we handled Charlie Austin pretty well"
Well he was right. ;D
1. Paying him off monthly staggers the financial obligation.
2. If anybody wishes to employ him whilst still on our payroll they will have to offer compensation, as he is still technically an employee of West Bromwich Albion.
I can understand what you are saying, but the problem is that he could take up employment elsewhere by resigning [and coming off the payroll]. He did say that he had received enquiries but he was not allowed to find alternative employment as he was still on the books. Why would that be?
Maybe because he loves gardening?
I can understand what you are saying, but the problem is that he could take up employment elsewhere by resigning [and coming off the payroll]. He did say that he had received enquiries but he was not allowed to find alternative employment as he was still on the books. Why would that be?
I can understand what you are saying, but the problem is that he could take up employment elsewhere by resigning [and coming off the payroll]. He did say that he had received enquiries but he was not allowed to find alternative employment as he was still on the books. Why would that be?
are you going to follow Irvine like i do Mel :)
To be fair not that interested in Irvine anymore, only when he was here.
If anyone's interested he's on five live now, talking about his wonderful opinions on football
Talks a lot of sense, a good and very interesting listen.
He is good at talking, I heard him on the radio the other month.
He clearly talked himself into the Albion job. The rest is history.........
Nice bloke but he couldn't manage a packet of crisps, let alone a football team.
He managed Preston from relegation zone of the Championship to the play offs in the next season. He was talked about like how Eddie Howe is now a few years ago. He just wasn't given the tools here.
He managed Preston from relegation zone of the Championship to the play offs in the next season. He was talked about how Eddie Howe is now as a talented young coach. He just wasn't given the tools here.
He managed Preston from relegation zone of the Championship to the play offs in the next season. He was talked about how Eddie Howe is now as a talented young coach. He just wasn't given the tools here.
I'll be glad when this thread is moved to the "General Football & Sports" forum, like those relating to our other ex-managers! We must have gone over Irvine's managerial record before he came to Albion dozens of times now.
Just did some quick digging as cant sleep, in the first 8 games of the last two seasons, Irvine got 1 Point MORE than Pulis has, we scored more and (surprisingly) had conceded the same number of goals, both have played Everton (and lost) & Southampton (drew 0-0) but Irvine had beaten Spurs & a Burnley team with a massive clean sheet record going in, drew with Man Utd and lost to Swansea (last season's Palace) game 9 was a draw to Palace and he drew with Sunderland.
Seems Irvine wasn't that bad afterall...
Just did some quick digging as cant sleep, in the first 8 games of the last two seasons, Irvine got 1 Point MORE than Pulis has, we scored more and (surprisingly) had conceded the same number of goals, both have played Everton (and lost) & Southampton (drew 0-0) but Irvine had beaten Spurs & a Burnley team with a massive clean sheet record going in, drew with Man Utd and lost to Swansea (last season's Palace) game 9 was a draw to Palace and he drew with Sunderland.
Seems Irvine wasn't that bad afterall...
Bring him back!!! He didn't have a pre-season to hand pick players either.
I can't believe what I am reading here!! Jeez.
I bet AI is having a good chuckle right now.
i dont give a pooh about statistics at this stage.
I cant stand whats happening to us.
I'd have Irvine back in a heartbeat over our current dragon. At least we'd get a level of entertainment.
We might get relegated, but i actually think we are going to get relegated with TP anyway.
All this bull about him never being relegated.
ITS ON THE WAY GUYS.........
Why?
I bet AI is having a good chuckle right now.
Why?Because we rarely try and attack and spend most games defending like its the only thing we know. The fan support for TP is falling apart faster than AI and thats saying something.
Because we rarely try and attack and spend most games defending like its the only thing we know. The fan support for TP is falling apart faster than AI and thats saying something.
What you're doing is projecting (your support for Pulis is falling apart faster than AI).
Irvine wasn't wanted by a good majority before he'd even settled into his office.
As Oldbury says he's been paid the best part of 11 months money for doing nothing having failed. Suppose it is worth a giggle.
Projecting is fine when it suits. :-XYes he was and he hadn't played Chelsea , Saints , Everton and Man City at home in his first 4 games. Irvine had no idea how to deal with a bad run ,Pulis is in one now but i'd wager he will pull through it especially when the injuries clear up and new players settle.
This stage last season we were in a better position under Irvine with less time and less money spent....and he was incompetent ::)
Yes he was and he hadn't played Chelsea , Saints , Everton and Man City at home in his first 4 games. Irvine had no idea how to deal with a bad run ,Pulis is in one now but i'd wager he will pull through it especially when the injuries clear up and new players settle.It's 8 games. We'd played Spurs, Liverpool and Man United and every game against 11 men. The "entertainment" was much better too.
For anybody looking through rose tinted glasses on Irvine remember Everton h Newcastle h , Swansea a , Hull away just off the top of my head and all shocking.
It's 8 games. We'd played Spurs, Liverpool and Man United and every game against 11 men. The "entertainment" was much better too.Pulis for as much as he is struggling right now is trying to build something with better quality players , that much i can see . Irvine was never good enough and had no second tier sucess let alone Premiership credit , Pulis and how he does it doesn't suit everybody but he is a proven top flight manager.
It isn't about rose tinted glasses and wanting Irvine back, if he wasn't good enough what makes Tony Pulis better?
Pulis for as much as he is struggling right now is trying to build something with better quality players , that much i can see . Irvine was never good enough and had no second tier sucess let alone Premiership credit , Pulis and how he does it doesn't suit everybody but he is a proven top flight manager.Playing awful every other week means that average performances look good. ;)
Entertainment ? , that soon slipped under AI ....i was bored rigid at Hull and the same at Leicester even with a win there .Only two games ago at Villa and Everton we played well , Pulis will turn this around imo....something Irvine couldn't when he hit his bad run.
Playing awful every other week means that average performances look good. ;)Keen on using those winking icons in every debate aren't you ?
I'm not sure what he is trying to build but the blueprint looks pretty horrible.
Keen on using those winking icons in every debate aren't you ?They help to emphasise a point, especially when in writing it can be difficult to understand the context in which a statement is written.
While we haven't started brilliantly I wouldn't say we are awful , the passing and movement (which we have struggled with long before Pulis ) was showing signs of being much better before Saturday, you call it average I call it progress. Blueprint ? at least we have one now given the club has floated along with no direction for a number of years now . There is no magic wand ( if there was Irvine would be a top manager ) , with the amount of changes behind the scenes and on the pitch i always thought things would have to get worse before they got better.
FFS >:( >:( i give up i really do some fans are beyond belief. The worst 12 months in our history begone with this mans signing & ened when put on garden leave.Apart from the fact it wasn't (it wasn't even the worst 12 months in my lifetime of supporting West Brom), it doesn't mean that we shouldn't talk about it or do we delete all our history or only talk about the good bits?
They help to emphasise a point, especially when in writing it can be difficult to understand the context in which a statement is written.Nope , I thought our performances against Villa and Everton ;) were much better passing and moving wise.Compare Irvines home record and clean sheets to TPs last season with pretty much the same players , this season with much needed new players was always going to be difficult for starters no matter who is in charge.
Anyway, before Saturday you were taking comfort from our performances against Chelsea and Villa? Two teams who are currently sat second and fourth from bottom. Our future under Irvine might have been bad there is very little evidence to show it is getting much better.
Apart from the fact it wasn't (it wasn't even the worst 12 months in my lifetime of supporting West Brom), it doesn't mean that we shouldn't talk about it or do we delete all our history or only talk about the good bits?
I don't want him back as we would probably go down, Mel was the one who should of been given the reigns for me and aloud to bring in he's own people for the job.I agree totally, we werent brave enough to back him and a different philosophy, and go in a different footballing direction. We'll never truly know what he might have achieved with his own squad, but for me its one of the (quite a few) things in our recent history ive been very angry about as a fan. As it is at the moment, I will be going to games cause I love the Albion, not for the entertainment value, that's for sure.
To be fair, our passing success (according to Samsung stats) against Everton and Villa were improved compared to our other matches at 73% for both games (back to 63% v Palace).
Comparing Irvine to Pulis, over the first eight games last season the home record was drawn 2, won 1, lost 1 and this year it is drawn 1, lost 3. Clean sheets? Last year at this stage Irvine had 3, Pulis has 3. Both sides had conceded 11 goals. Irvine's team had scored 10, Pulis 6.
out of interest had we played 5 of the top teams in the league? man city, chelsea, saints, palace, everton? (who will all finish top 8 this year).Man Utd, Spurs (and won), Liverpool, Southampton and Swansea plus Everton (who finished 11th) and about to play Palace who finished 10th... so yes, yes we did.
the comparison is difficult without consideration of the opposition and whether they were in form or not?
out of interest had we played 5 of the top teams in the league? man city, chelsea, saints, palace, everton? (who will all finish top 8 this year).
the comparison is difficult without consideration of the opposition and whether they were in form or not?
Anybody that would prefer Irvine needs their head looking at.Berahino?
Whilst the performances have been below average, Pulis has reinstalled discipline and commitment off the pitch, something that we were severely lacking in the boys club with Deano/Downing et al.
Berahino?There's Berahino, Gamboa last year with his "he won't play me 'cause i'm short and attacking" interview, bought McClean who preceded to do McClean type things, Sessegnon at Newcastle etc. I'd argue that off the field has actually gotten a bit worse.
Didn't he just say at the weekend the players are too comfortable and is bombing out talent actually a good thing?
I don't want him back as we would probably go down, Mel was the one who should of been given the reigns for me and aloud to bring in he's own people for the job.I often wonder why we gave him the job in the first place if we wasn't going to back him, hated the appointment of Irvine and hate pulis even more, the abuse we dished out to stoke over their style and now we have to suffer his turd football. for the first time since 1973 I haven't attended a game this season but I miss it so much, I just cannot pay to watch what he dishes up and would sooner see a team under mel albeit with his faults at least it was exciting and entertaining.
AI says he's excited about being a manager again. Great coach and a top bloke who will find another managerial role with ease. I will be following his career with interest.
AI says he's excited about being a manager again. Great coach and a top bloke who will find another managerial role with ease. I will be following his career with interest.
Sacked at Preston
Sacked at Sheff Weds
Sacked at West Brom
Seriously, where do people get the opinion that he's going to get a job with ease??? He may be highly thought of as a Coach, but being a manager/Head Coach is a completely different animal!!!
Sacked at Preston
Sacked at Sheff Weds
Sacked at West Brom
Seriously, where do people get the opinion that he's going to get a job with ease??? He may be highly thought of as a Coach, but being a manager/Head Coach is a completely different animal!!!
Harshly sacked at Preston after doing a superb job. Sheff Wed were already struggling before AI come in. Harshly sacked at Albion after not getting the signings he wanted. Our very own TP was sacked from clubs like Gillingham and Pompey, he must be an awful manager!!
The difference is Tony Pulis has gone on to establish Stoke in the prem and kept Palace up easily when they looked dead and buried! He also kept us up when things were looking bleak...what positives does Irvine have on his CV (managerial wise)???
Haven't heard Preston fans version of events about how he did there but don't remember many coming out saying what a wonderful job he had done...but Sheffield Wednesday fans were very vocal as to what an awful job he did there!
I know a lot of people in the game think Irvine is one of the best coaches in this country, I think if he goes to a stable club with a decent set of players he will excel.
I think you're right Legend, Irvine probably is one of the best coaches in the country, however being a great coach doesn't mean you possess the authoritative streak to be a successful manager. Our players seemed to love working under him, his training methods were lauded by many of them but our performances didn't display this. Did he have the personality to take on certain members of the dressing room, to break up the old guard/cliques, probably not, everyone remained way too comfortable and maybe he was too nice a bloke, payers got away with too many poor performances without repercussions.
I understood the logic behind his appointment, especially with the head coach system and structure we had in place but it didn't work out and I think alot of that was to do with his personality not his knowledge or coaching methods.
I think that's fair. I do remember Irvine coming out after the Palace game where we were 2-0 down at half time saying that he had lost his temper with the players and he said it's not often he did that. We drew 2-2 in the end so maybe it was something he needed to do more often.
Yes it had nothing to do with a superb Vic Anichebe performance it was because Irvine got upset...
Yes it had nothing to do with a superb Vic Anichebe performance it was because Irvine got upset...
Didn't he get brought on at half time by Irvine, You seem to base your opinions on whether you like someone or not or that's how it comes across.
Where were we in the league at this time last year under Irvine? I'm certain it's much higher than we are now under Sir Tony Pulis.
The only position that matters in the one we are in come the last game of the season. Irvine would have relegated us, Pulis will not.Only one of these can be proven / disproven though, although I think you are probably right.
The only position that matters in the one we are in come the last game of the season. Irvine would have relegated us, Pulis will not.
The fact that we are even discussing Irvine who was the most ridiculous appointment and the awful football he produced shows just how bad it is now..... If we lose to Sunderland and play the usual 9-1 formation are we going to start a "was Bobby Gould really that bad" thread or "Buckley was a great coach but his hands were tied" discussion?Bang on. I can't understand why we're still talking about him
Bang on. I can't understand why we're still talking about him
Don't see what's wrong with talking about ex managers. It's the international break too so not much to debate about at the moment. :P
The fact that we are even discussing Irvine who was the most ridiculous appointment and the awful football he produced shows just how bad it is now..... If we lose to Sunderland and play the usual 9-1 formation are we going to start a "was Bobby Gould really that bad" thread or "Buckley was a great coach but his hands were tied" discussion?This Buckley fella, would he have contacts at a previous club to get some players he knows in?
This Buckley fella, would he have contacts at a previous club to get some players he knows in?he's got a genius lad up front with a moustache and a fine array of "backheels" with a bit of luck he will come!
Our friend Legend will be jumping hoops, irvines got a job i hear.Did i hear correct? assitant to Lambert at Blackburn
Our friend Legend will be jumping hoops, irvines got a job i hear.Did i hear correct? assitant to Lambert at Blackburn
Premier League number 1 to a Championship number 2. Onwards and upwards!The bloke was on a hiding to nothing from the moment Pepe Mel left by "mutual consent". Good luck to him.
What on earth have Blackburn fans done wrong. Sacking Allardyce for Steve Kean and now this horror show. Feel very sorry for them.I suspect there are Stoke fans asking similar questions of us.
I suspect there are Stoke fans asking similar questions of us.
Proven Premier League manager who has been Manager of the Year, got a previous club to a Wembley final and saves clubs from the drop going to a club in deep pooh at the time following the unsuccessful tenure by the new Blackburn coach. Yep, plenty of questions to be asked there.
We were 15th and on course to stay up when Irvine left. Pulis has had two transfer windows spent a fortune and we are not much better for it sadly.
We were 15th and on course to stay up when Irvine left. Pulis has had two transfer windows spent a fortune and we are not much better for it sadly.
JP would not have pulled the plug if we were on course to stay up.
JP is not a Chairman who acts on the actions of fans, he acts when he sees the need and is concerned about his investment. If he acted on the actions of the fans then Pepe Mel would have stayed.The impact the crowd had on the results/team/coach and Pepe Mel had on the players will no doubt have entered into JP decision to sack both our previous managers.
The impact the crowd had on the results/team/coach and Pepe Mel had on the players will no doubt have entered into JP decision to sack both our previous managers.
Yeah I disagree with that Phil, the atmosphere at stoke made downings position untenable really.
I believe the fans forced JP's hand, the atmosphere towards Irvine was poisonous and made me feel ashamed.
So the crowd are to blame for poor results under Irvine ?
Mel was not given a chance by players so would he have been a success ? not one of us knows.
Peace acts when he feels his investment is under threat.
Interesting that despite a glut of Championship clubs having vacancies that not one was looking to appoint Irvine or even clubs below that level, only one Scottish club in one of the poorest leagues in Europe was linked with him as a number 1
Well Blackburn and Lambert seem to think he has something to offer.
Did you miss the part about as a Number 1 ?
good luck to him. its as good as it gets for him thoughIt's hardly a dream team is it? Two of the dourest characters the game has to offer, bet the fans can't wait for the post match conference zzzzzzzzzzzzz
It's hardly a dream team is it? Two of the dourest characters the game has to offer, bet the fans can't wait for the post match conference zzzzzzzzzzzzz
I would be very surprised if they are still there at the start of next season anyway, the Venky's seem to prefer a revolving door approach!
I think Lambert and Irvine will work excellent together and have a chance of getting Blackburn near the play offs this season.They may well do, that doesn't change the fact that they are both dour as hell in interviews.
I think Lambert and Irvine will work excellent together and have a chance of getting Blackburn near the play offs this season.
I don't think we have any idea how they will work together - for all we know, they could clash bigtime behind the scenes! You don't know until they actually work together!
We can try and paint a pretty picture of Irvine all we want - the fact is the bloke failed at Preston, Sheff Weds and us. Excuses can be made if wanting to present a strong argument for him, but his CV reads failure after failure in a Number 1 position.
I hope he does well elsewhere, as he comes across as a decent, hard working bloke, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near my club in a managerial capacity!
Living in the northwest I know a few PNE fans. None of them had a good word to say about Irvine and found it highly amusing when we hired him.
Living in the northwest I know a few PNE fans. None of them had a good word to say about Irvine and found it highly amusing when we hired him.
Did he though? I have to disagree. Saved Preston from relegation and took them to play offs, was sacked after a bad run of form. I wouldn't call it a failure when most Preston fans were gutted he left. When Head Coach at Albion he took over a team who limped to safety last season, given players he didn't want and was expected to work miracles with supporters who were fed up and angry before the season started. I can't remember us being in the relegation zone much when Irvine was here.
Following on from the comments regarding the Preston fans thoughts on him (I only remember reading negative ones when we appointed him) the Sheffield Wednesday fans thought he was dreadful and were very vocal in their negative opinion of him!
I am also in the North West, Preston in fact and the majority of Preston fans were incredulous at his appointment at the Hawthorns.Many were surprised by his appointment and very few by his dismissal.
It's hardly a dream team is it? Two of the dourest characters the game has to offer, bet the fans can't wait for the post match conference zzzzzzzzzzzzz
I would be very surprised if they are still there at the start of next season anyway, the Venky's seem to prefer a revolving door approach!
Former West Brom boss tipped to return to management after job talksNot a headline you would want to see if you was coming around from concussion, when did he come back!
It’s Alan Irvine and he might be OK in the Scottish PL
Source: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/former-west-brom-boss-tipped-17281706