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West Bromwich Albion FC Forums => Albion Matchday Forum => Topic started by: OldburyWBA on September 11, 2021, 12:49:38 AM

Title: 14 Sept 2021 Albion 0 Derby County 0
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 11, 2021, 12:49:38 AM
West Bromwich Albion v Derby County

Tuesday 14th September 2021 20.00pm

Please use this board for all your After Match Debate. Away fans are reminded to abide by the site rules.
Title: In Game Chat
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 11, 2021, 12:50:45 AM
West Bromwich Albion v Derby County

Tuesday 14th September 2021 20.00pm

Please use this board for all your In Game Chat. Opposition fans are reminded to abide by the site rules

Please keep this board Albion related, there are boards elsewhere in General Sports to discuss other games
Title: Pre Match Chat
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 11, 2021, 12:51:11 AM
West Bromwich Albion v Derby County

Tuesday 14th September 2021 20.00pm

Please use this board for all your Pre Match Chat. Opposition fans are reminded to abide by the site rules
Title: Ticket Info & Requests
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 11, 2021, 12:52:56 AM
West Bromwich Albion v Derby County

Tuesday 14th September 2021 20.00pm

PRICES

Adults - £23 Birmingham Road End/ Smethwick End, £25 East Stand/ West Stand
Seniors - £18 Birmingham Road End/ Smethwick End, £20 East Stand/ West Stand
Disabled (inc free personal assistant ticket)/ U23 - £15
U18 - £10
U11 - £5

SALE DATES

Home season ticket holders & members ONLINE ONLY - Monday August 9
Home season ticker holders & members online, phone, in person - Monday August 16
General sale online, phone, in person - Monday August 23



MEMBERS WITH LESS THAN 25 POSTS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO OFFER TICKETS FOR SALE OR REQUEST TO BUY TICKETS ON WESTBROM.COM.
 ANYONE IGNORING THAT RULING WILL HAVE THEIR POST REMOVED.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: beechyboy90 on September 11, 2021, 10:18:45 PM
For this game. I would try bryan at left centre back and see if we can get back to stability at the back.

Also robinson should start through the middle with grady wide left and phillips right. Derby will also sit back and you would imagine davies and jagielka will relish ariel bombardment so we want to play quick grounded football and try get the cbs out of position.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: johnnyg on September 12, 2021, 08:35:37 PM
For this game. I would try bryan at left centre back and see if we can get back to stability at the back.

Also robinson should start through the middle with grady wide left and phillips right. Derby will also sit back and you would imagine davies and jagielka will relish ariel bombardment so we want to play quick grounded football and try get the cbs out of position.

Agree with all of this. Robinson has to start through the middle.
And lets not play into Derbys hands by launching too many long balls
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 13, 2021, 08:01:06 AM
The lads have to be up for this, and not treat it like a walk over.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: Atomic on September 13, 2021, 08:31:30 AM
I'd play young Taylor ahead of Kipre. He may only be 18 but an 18 year old has just won the US open. Youngsters have to be given a chance some time or they will never make it. Bryan on the bench if he's ready and if I were in charge Ajayi could count himself extremely lucky to hold on to his shirt after that showing last Saturday.

Robinson has to start as well and I'd start Hugill as well. Grant and Diangana can try and make an impact from the bench later on.


                      Johnstone

         Taylor      Bartley    Ajayi

Furlong  Livermore Mowatt  Townsend

        Phillips    Hugill     Robinson


Subs: Button, Bryan, Reach, Snodgrass, Molumby, Diangana, Grant.
Title: match officials
Post by: Hull Baggie on September 13, 2021, 09:07:48 AM
Referee: Kevin Friend
Assistant Referee: Derek Eaton
Assistant Referee: Wade Smith
Fourth Official: Will Finnie
Title: Re: match officials
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 13, 2021, 10:19:29 AM
Friend?
No way is he.
Title: Re: match officials
Post by: wodenson46 on September 13, 2021, 11:09:59 AM
Thats the unbeaten run over then. This 'gentleman' has rarely given ANY decisions in our favour let alone anything, rightly or wrongly, from which we might gain a significant advantage.  :'(

It is probably too much to ask that interpretation of the increasingly complex and subjective rules is consistent across all games and even each official will usually have their own way of doing things. All anybody asks is that there is consistency during each game, and that the rules as the referee sees them are applied to both sides in a fair and transparent manner. 

From the evidence of my own (of course completely unbiased ;)) eyes  I feel that this Mr F fails utterly and consistently to manage any of the above. Our only hope is that his tendency to pander to the 'bigger - top of the division' clubs  works in our favour for once, but seriously doubt that it will ::)
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2021, 12:49:04 PM
Is Taylor left footed though? Thats what Kipre really struggled with, playing on the left.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: Atomic on September 13, 2021, 01:14:37 PM
Is Taylor left footed though? Thats what Kipre really struggled with, playing on the left.

Kipre struggled with reading the game and consequently decision making. Where I sit I clearly saw Val bellowing out instructions, he wasnt best pleased on more than one occasion. Probably 60% of football is in the head. Kipre seems to struggle with the mental side of the game. He's strong as an oxx and will out muscle 95 %  of forwards but when he has to think quickly, he's all over the shop.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2021, 01:24:55 PM
Kipre struggled with reading the game and consequently decision making. Where I sit I clearly saw Val bellowing out instructions, he wasnt best pleased on more than one occasion. Probably 60% of football is in the head. Kipre seems to struggle with the mental side of the game. He's strong as an oxx and will out muscle 95 %  of forwards but when he has to think quickly, he's all over the shop.

Kipre clearly felt uncomfortable at the left side in my opinion. All the right sided players would to varying extents. Agree that doesn't excuse his inability to carry out the basics though.

My preference would be to use Clarke or Bryan to restore balance and Ajayi deserves dropping so give Taylor a chance there.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: SmethDan on September 13, 2021, 01:29:54 PM
Kipre struggled with reading the game and consequently decision making. Where I sit I clearly saw Val bellowing out instructions, he wasnt best pleased on more than one occasion. Probably 60% of football is in the head. Kipre seems to struggle with the mental side of the game. He's strong as an oxx and will out muscle 95 %  of forwards but when he has to think quickly, he's all over the shop.

In which case it's probably best to play him on the side of the defence he's best suited to. The right, if not then centrally but most certainly not on the left. Personally thought Kipre was better than Ajayi who had an utter nightmare of a game, strangely enough he didn't look too bad on the left of the three when he came on v Blues. As for Caleb Taylor he's very much right footed.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: Atomic on September 13, 2021, 01:34:40 PM
In which case it's probably best to play him on the side of the defence he's best suited to. The right, if not then centrally but most certainly not on the left. Personally thought Kipre was better than Ajayi who had an utter nightmare of a game, strangely enough he didn't look too bad on the left of the three when he came on v Blues. As for Caleb Taylor he's very much right footed.

Agreed that Ajayi was abysmal on Saturday and I mean abysmal. However he has earned some credit over the last couple of seasons. Not great but generally Okish and a more than decent threat from set pieces.

For those reasons he scores ahead of Kipre.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: chipperclark on September 14, 2021, 12:40:08 AM
 ;D I would like to see Snodgrass in a 3 man midfield. I reckon we would "steamroller" them with that formation with Robinson and Hugill up front.
                                     JOHNSTONE
                     AJAYI       BARTLEY.      TOWNSEND
               SNODGRASS.    LIVERMORE.   MOWATT
 FURLONG.                                                    DIANGANA/PHILLIPS
                              HUGILL. ROBINSON
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: WBAinDEVON on September 14, 2021, 08:03:34 AM
our first loss 1-2
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: liverbaggie on September 14, 2021, 08:30:30 AM
2-0 WBA
Is this match Live on radio anybody know?
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: Atomic on September 14, 2021, 08:45:04 AM
our first loss 1-2

Lol. You really are a ray of sunshine arent you?  ;D
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: DaveWBA on September 14, 2021, 09:02:47 AM
After Saturday, need to bounce back with a win. Derby don't score many, nothing too kamikaze at our end and we should only need one.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on September 14, 2021, 10:47:09 AM
I am still positive 2-0 Albion ;D.  I am getting a bit worried though that our tactics are limited, and we are not playing to the strengths of a talented team.  Managers in the championship now understand how we will play, and Millwall just effectively closed us down.  Risk is Derby do the same and nick one.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: WBAinDEVON on September 14, 2021, 10:50:05 AM
Lol. You really are a ray of sunshine arent you?  ;D

haha got saturdays draw correct  :)
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: seteefeet on September 14, 2021, 12:25:53 PM
I am still positive 2-0 Albion ;D.  I am getting a bit worried though that our tactics are limited, and we are not playing to the strengths of a talented team.  Managers in the championship now understand how we will play, and Millwall just effectively closed us down.  Risk is Derby do the same and nick one.
2-0 also. Love to see Grady get off the mark and Grant make up for his cack penalty.

No other teams will "Millwall" us as well as Millwall did. Certainly can't see Derby trying it but almost hope they do!
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: KN22 on September 14, 2021, 12:51:43 PM
Anyone know the expected attendance for tonight's game??
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: BournvilleBaggie on September 14, 2021, 01:56:29 PM
Unsure on attendance. We give away fans 2000 allocation. Then we have that divide in the smethwick which I’m unsure how many seats get forfeited (guess approx 500/600). Clearly we make money from that sponsor deal though.

Generally think this year we get around 23k on average.

As for albion fans we are around 2-3k down for a home section sell out.

It would be nice for the club to use some forward thinking initiative to attract more fans or younger fanbase. Pick me up boost for so many families struggling during this pandemic and other economic social factors. It doesn’t have to be every game but every now and again to help the local communities
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 02:28:44 PM
Anyone know the expected attendance for tonight's game??

Because i'm bored out my skull :-

Smethwick - 2
Halfords - 407
Brummie and W/C - 1067
East and M/C -1226

Total home seats unsold currently  -2702
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: GREGMT on September 14, 2021, 02:59:15 PM
Is the game on the Sky red button tonight?
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 03:02:08 PM
Is the game on the Sky red button tonight?

Yes it is.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: garry on September 14, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
Only Bournemouth and QPR are playing this evening out of the other top clubs. If they draw and we could win then we would be 4 points clear at the end of the evening.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: mulliganstired on September 14, 2021, 05:31:10 PM
After Saturday, need to bounce back with a win. Derby don't score many, nothing too kamikaze at our end and we should only need one.
We need the points with a run of much tougher games coming up
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: TheBaggieMan on September 14, 2021, 05:52:09 PM
Hopefully, VI will have realised we need a Plan B in the event opposition teams play a ‘Millwall’
If that happens it’s vital we play it on the ground using the pace of Robinson. It would also confuse the opposition.

C’mon you Baggies!
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: gavinrussell on September 14, 2021, 06:18:48 PM
Never look forward to playing Derby...another draw for me..
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: KN22 on September 14, 2021, 06:33:30 PM
Because i'm bored out my skull :-

Smethwick - 2
Halfords - 407
Brummie and W/C - 1067
East and M/C -1226

Total home seats unsold currently  -2702

Thank you!
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: ttree30 on September 14, 2021, 06:39:43 PM
It should be a home win, especially if Derby persist in playing out from the back.

Surely we’ll be better than in the past two games? I hope…
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 07:04:25 PM
Townsend at CB for Kipre and Reach in at lwb. Bonkers if you ask me. Robbo in, Phillips out
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: WBArgo on September 14, 2021, 07:16:55 PM
Townsend at CB for Kipre and Reach in at lwb. Bonkers if you ask me. Robbo in, Phillips out
Isn't it just a 4-4-2 with Reach on the wing in midfield? I hope so.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 07:19:52 PM
Isn't it just a 4-4-2 with Reach on the wing in midfield? I hope so.

Local journos saying no formation change. Just swopping players around. I don't think we will ever see any different
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: baggiebof on September 14, 2021, 07:23:37 PM
I like the team. In a game where the opposition are likely to sit off us, having your best progressive passer in the back 3 makes sense. I am glad that Phillips dropped out for Robinson, not because he deserved it but he now becomes a relatively fresh to replace Furlong as the game goes on.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: Baggies on September 14, 2021, 07:28:33 PM
Isn't it just a 4-4-2 with Reach on the wing in midfield? I hope so.

It will 100% be a back 3. It's the cornerstone of his approach. Personally I don't like having Townsend at left centre back, playing defenders out of position has always been a gripe of mine. Reach will hopefully add more in an attacking sense and goal threat but defensively that left hand flank now looks very vulnerable.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: johnny Cash on September 14, 2021, 07:29:06 PM
Against Sheffield United, Townsend dropped in to the back three with Reach LWB, so we have done it before. It’s not a great endorsement for Kipre, I suspect we will see Kean get a run out before we see Kipre again
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 07:30:08 PM
Derby have got some big slow and old CBs. Let's not pump ball after ball into the air at them to send back like against Millwall for the best part of 90 mins.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: WBArgo on September 14, 2021, 07:40:08 PM
Local journos saying no formation change. Just swopping players around. I don't think we will ever see any different

Bloody hell then...let's hope it works!  ???
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: TheBrom on September 14, 2021, 07:43:14 PM
3-0 us. A reaction after the last game. Derby are poor
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: alex1 on September 14, 2021, 07:44:41 PM
I would have left out Grant rather than Phillips, but I assume Phillips will be coming on after 60 mins. Grant doesn't offer enough quality.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 07:51:51 PM
Bloody hell then...let's hope it works!  ???

Me too! Sooner Bryan or Clarke are upto speed the better.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 07:57:56 PM
The ride of the Valkarie (spelling) is sounding around the ground.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 07:58:10 PM
Red button now active for NOW TV members.
Title: Re: Pre Match Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 07:59:21 PM
Red button now active for NOW TV members.

What's the password? lol
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:02:52 PM
Kicking off towards the Smethwick end.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 08:03:01 PM
COYB
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:06:17 PM
Derby are causing us a bit of bother.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: paulosull on September 14, 2021, 08:06:40 PM
Anyone having problem getting game on red button?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:08:01 PM
Anyone having problem getting game on red button?
Yeah, me.
Possibly because I ain't got one.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: BoingFlyer on September 14, 2021, 08:09:47 PM
Anyone having a problem getting the game on the red button?

Watching it as a bouns channel on Now TV. Had to switch to another channel and back to get sound. All good now.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:11:28 PM
Bomber says that the final ball is lacking
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 08:12:12 PM
Cleared off the line by Davies, well worked corner.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 08:12:50 PM
Anyone having problem getting game on red button?

Working fine here, sound went for a moment but came back
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:16:45 PM
According to the radio, they are trying to stretch us.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: AbbeymeadBaggie on September 14, 2021, 08:19:31 PM
Where are bonus channels on Now TV... Please
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:23:28 PM
Derby seem to be too comfortable on the ball. (radio)
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:25:21 PM
Stats... 50/50
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
First bit of quality football from us for ages and we carve them open with a couple of chances.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 08:26:44 PM
And when I say "ages" I mean "matches".
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: fatboy_coach on September 14, 2021, 08:27:43 PM
Corner clawed off the line, whipped right under the bar
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: graka on September 14, 2021, 08:27:56 PM
When you play this style of football it makes no difference we have better players because we just hump it
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 08:30:00 PM
When you play this style of football it makes no difference we have better players because we just hump it

Derby can't cope with Diangana and Robinson when we've got the ball on the deck. 
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: BoingFlyer on September 14, 2021, 08:32:49 PM
Playing this lot of the park. More than deserve to be winning. Which means you know who will win one nill  :-X
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 08:33:53 PM
Last 10 mins we've got the ball down and picked our passes out more deliberately and Derby don't have an answer.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: graka on September 14, 2021, 08:42:21 PM
Last 10 mins we've got the ball down and picked our passes out more deliberately and Derby don't have an answer.
Pity we don't do it from the first minute
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 08:43:55 PM
Will somebody have a word with our defence and tell them it's ok to keep possession.  Number of times we just head it out for a throw in.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on September 14, 2021, 08:44:05 PM
A game lacking in some quality currently
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:44:31 PM
Will somebody have a word with our defence and tell them it's ok to keep possession.  Number of times we just head it out for a throw in.

That's Val's job.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:46:13 PM
We need an HRK (arggh) to hold the ball up.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: JMullen95 on September 14, 2021, 08:47:18 PM
I blame playing it out from the back.

Boooo, get it forward!!!
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 08:48:00 PM
We need an HRK (arggh) to hold the ball up.

The ball isn't landing anywhere near our forwards - we could have Rondon back and he wouldn't be able to hold it up.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Jimmy on September 14, 2021, 08:49:10 PM
Whats the game plan then?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:49:50 PM
Whats the game plan then?
Kick and rush?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:50:08 PM
Boos at half time.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 08:50:26 PM
2 goals in 2.5 games from our centre backs.

It almost suggests that we lack quality and should not have sold Pereira for pennies.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggies_24 on September 14, 2021, 08:52:26 PM
Tough watch, obviously opponents have worked out the best way to counter us is to get rid quickly which completely nullifies our press which has reduced us to lumping the ball. Val really needs to add to the system if we don’t mix it up more we’l become very predictable and one dimensional.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 08:52:59 PM
Whats the game plan then?

Kick it forward, watch it land on the head of one of their CH's who launches it back to us.  We're not pressing like we did earlier in the season so what was brilliant to watch now becomes head tennis.

We had a 10 min period where we got the ball down and passed it about and we looked much better.  We're the only team that looks like scoring as it is.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 08:53:26 PM
Meh first half.

Townsend actually doing ok at LCB, Reach is very lightweight and his crossing ain't great. Quicker we get one of the natural LCb in the better.

Grant anonymous apart from 1 free kick, Robbo and Grady meh.

The times we get it down and play around them at the back are the times we look the most dangerous for me. Davies and Jagielka loving just heading and hoofing any long balls away that are lumped into our small forwards.

Our press seems to have vanished even when we can catch them on the ball the intensity has gone.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: WBArgo on September 14, 2021, 08:53:38 PM
We're really poor but Derby pose no threat. They do long balls too but none stick against our back 2.

Maybe bring on Hugill for Diangana who is doing nothing, may as well if we're going to lump it. I would also say that Derby are time wasting to the extreme. This is even beyond Pulis levels...
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: chippyclarke on September 14, 2021, 08:54:24 PM
Not once has there keeper taken a drop kick from within his penalty area - 9 times outside the box!
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: frazzle on September 14, 2021, 08:55:05 PM
Dreadful. We pass the ball and we look good but generally dreadful.

Hi Gil for Grant for me. Grant done nothing. Diangana has had a go.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 08:55:09 PM
Meh first half.

Townsend actually doing ok at LCB, Reach is very lightweight and his crossing ain't great. Quicker we get one of the natural LCb in the better.

Grant anonymous apart from 1 free kick, Robbo and Grady meh.

The times we get it down and play around them at the back are the times we look the most dangerous for me. Davies and Jagielka loving just heading and hoofing any long balls away that are lumped into our small forwards.

Our press seems to have vanished even when we can catch them on the ball the intensity has gone.

Every cross from Reach is a yard short, it looks like he is too skinny and weak to kick the ball properly.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: alex1 on September 14, 2021, 08:55:20 PM
We are getting crosses in but nobody in the middle able to convert them.  Robinson not really suited to heading in crosses and Grant anonymous.
Diangana our best player.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 08:55:42 PM
Where are bonus channels on Now TV... Please


Go to main NOWTV homepage and scroll down to the very bottom and you will see a section with the bonus games.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggies_24 on September 14, 2021, 08:55:52 PM
Mulumby or Snodgrass for Livermore needs to be the change we need to get our football on the ball and play through the lines.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boingboing1989 on September 14, 2021, 08:56:01 PM
Well that was dreadful, what's happened to the press and intensity from earlier games? Game plan seems to be hoof it forward and hope they make a mistake and gift us a goal. Woeful.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Baggie79 on September 14, 2021, 08:56:40 PM
I actually think we have played more football tonight compared to previous games. Maybe its just me.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 08:56:50 PM
Every cross from Reach is a yard short, it looks like he is too skinny and weak to kick the ball properly.

He reminds me of the skinny lad in Sunday League who gets sent flying through the air week in, week out by nothing tackles.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: beechyboy90 on September 14, 2021, 08:57:06 PM
Mulumby or Snodgrass for Livermore needs to be the change we need to get our football on the ball and play through the lines.

I agree. Possibly even Phillips for Grant
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 08:57:17 PM
I actually think we have played more football tonight compared to previous games. Maybe its just me.

I think we have and it's been the best moments for us.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 08:57:35 PM
As old man Peace said...
We are just a mid table Championship side.(We will remain just that, until we invest in the team).
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 08:57:43 PM
Mulumby or Snodgrass for Livermore needs to be the change we need to get our football on the ball and play through the lines.


Yeah that was a silly challenge from Livermore i'd be getting him off.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: alex1 on September 14, 2021, 08:58:32 PM
I agree. Possibly even Phillips for Grant
Not just possibly.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 08:59:42 PM
We're really poor but Derby pose no threat. They do long balls too but none stick against our back 2.

Maybe bring on Hugill for Diangana who is doing nothing, may as well if we're going to lump it. I would also say that Derby are time wasting to the extreme. This is even beyond Pulis levels...

Diangana has been our best player by some distance!
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: alex1 on September 14, 2021, 09:00:44 PM
Its clear that everyone knows our tactics and Derby going long themselves. Robinson is best when he runs at defenders, not at trying to convert high crosses. Might have to rely on a set piece.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Baggies on September 14, 2021, 09:01:21 PM
I thought I heard boos too. I think fans booing a side sitting top of the league need to get a sense of perspective - seriously uncalled for.

I know it's not been brilliant. We are comfortably the better side but for the second game on the trot we aren't creating enough. The first 20 minutes seemed to have some promise and a bit more incisive play but as the game has gone on we have slipped in to the trap of every single attack looking the same. We can't keep putting in the same 50/50 cross and hoping we are going to find a man in space. Derby eventually knew what we were going to do and handled it very easily - this sort of game suits older heads like Davies and Jagielka.

If we can get the ball down and get in and around their ageing defence, we could cause them some trouble, but it will require more than out one dimensional attacking tactics.

If it continues as it is, I really hope we see Ismael show a tiny bit of tactical flexibility. I'm not asking for 4 at the back and 5 in midfield, but there is room within his system to improve our build up play. Another central midfielder is one option; Mulumby or Snodgrass both on the bench.

Derby aren't a great side, despite their one break away chance and short lived spell of possession. If we could just add a other dimension to our attacking play we will go 1 up. Not every goal has to be a header.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: frazzle on September 14, 2021, 09:01:41 PM
Mulumby or Snodgrass for Livermore needs to be the change we need to get our football on the ball and play through the lines.

Sadly I don’t think it matters who plays in midfield as they will all be forced to lump it.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:01:57 PM
Mulumby or Snodgrass for Livermore needs to be the change we need to get our football on the ball and play through the lines.

It's the back 5 who are hoofing it all the time - even when Livermore and Mowatt have done well getting it on the floor they lay it back and it's BOOOOOM!
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:03:52 PM
It's the back 5 who are hoofing it all the time - even when Livermore and Mowatt have done well getting it on the floor they lay it back and it's BOOOOOM!
ala Pullis..Back pass and hooof
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:04:37 PM
Grant and Robinson replaced.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 09:04:54 PM
Ismael has to have more than this as a tactic. We need a powerful CF if we are going to keep playing this way weekly. 3 lightweight players up front don't suit this. We need variety.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 09:05:24 PM
Phillips and Hugill on
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:05:38 PM
Why won't he go Diangana, Phillips and Robinson?  That's the only combo he's not used yet I think?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: alex1 on September 14, 2021, 09:06:17 PM
We need to be running at them from midfield not just hoisting in high crosses.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:07:28 PM
Seems harsh how Val just seems to try random attackers - it's not the attacker's fault they can't bring down 60 yard balls that land on the heads of the CH's or is miles over hit and runs through to their keeper.  It's the approach that isn't working, not the players.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Baggies on September 14, 2021, 09:07:45 PM
Robinson was the pick of the front 3 from what I could see so a shame to see him go off.

It seems Ismael thinks the problem lies with the front 3 and not what’s happening behind them. Not entirely how I see it personally.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 09:11:52 PM
Robinson was the pick of the front 3 from what I could see so a shame to see him go off.

It seems Ismael thinks the problem lies with the front 3 and not what’s happening behind them. Not entirely how I see it personally.

He loves to sub our best player from the front three at half time. Did the same at the weekend with Grady. Taking the proverbial.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Baggie79 on September 14, 2021, 09:12:50 PM
I dont agree with it but the fans are only putting up with the football as we are getting results, if we start to drop points just wait for the onslaught and VI out calls from some supporters!
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 09:13:09 PM
The main problem is a lack of quality having sold our star player and brought in several championship journey men.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:14:56 PM
More good passing between Phillips and the midfield two to open them up. 
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:15:25 PM
We and the board, are relying that the chasing pack will drop points.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 09:16:06 PM
We and the board, are relying that the chasing pack will drop points.

What for 39 games?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: BoingFlyer on September 14, 2021, 09:16:48 PM
We and the board, are relying that the chasing pack will drop points.

Who would hope the chasing pack don't drop points¡
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Baggie79 on September 14, 2021, 09:16:52 PM
Believe it or not we are evens in places to win, OMG get on it.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:17:01 PM
Listening to the radio, and watching the stream, this could well end up 0-0 or even worse, 0-1
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:19:08 PM
Our players' seem to rush and not think
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 09:19:30 PM
Furlong demonstrating a chronic lack of footballing ability.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:19:33 PM
How have we not scored?  Diangana absolutely does his man and is through, keeper makes the save.  Ball comes out to Furlong in acres of space - tries to place it and balloons it over.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: royhan on September 14, 2021, 09:21:08 PM
Pathetic effort from Fuling. It was a golden opportunity
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggies_24 on September 14, 2021, 09:22:09 PM
How does a professional footballer miss an open goal from 10 yards out.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Jimmy on September 14, 2021, 09:22:21 PM
This is cack isnt it?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: fatboy_coach on September 14, 2021, 09:22:32 PM
Grady playing the best I've seen for ages, we just can't create any clear chances
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: tuamigos on September 14, 2021, 09:23:57 PM
How does a professional footballer miss an open goal from 10 yards out.

Practice. Lots and lots of Practice
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: lewisant on September 14, 2021, 09:24:20 PM
Grady playing the best I've seen for ages, we just can't create any clear chances

Has he been on the left?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:26:00 PM
I feel that the players' thought that this was a "walk over", and have just tried to just "turn out".
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:26:54 PM
Where are the THINKING players?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggies_24 on September 14, 2021, 09:27:57 PM
I think the players on the pitch have to take some responsibility, first half with robbo on the pitch they lump aimless balls up to him, 2nd half with Hugill on they decide to get it down on the deck and play.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Baggie79 on September 14, 2021, 09:31:02 PM
Reach is frustrating me already but to be fair he isnt a LWB. COYB
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:31:28 PM
Diangana misses by inches, keeper saves it, and Phillips slides in and just misses it.

This is way better - we're getting it down on the floor and playing our way through them.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:31:54 PM
We haven't a true goal scorer. (goal hanger, we used to call them).Livermore off
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 14, 2021, 09:32:16 PM
Has he been on the left?
Yes, since half-time.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 09:32:24 PM
Livermore lucky not to get a second yellow, dived in. Time to sun him for Molumby. Grady looking dangerous.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: royhan on September 14, 2021, 09:32:30 PM
Fabulous Albion move down the left but Phillips just failed to get the final touch
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:32:55 PM
Livermore off for Snodgrass - makes sense, he could easily have got a harsh second yellow.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 14, 2021, 09:33:07 PM
Reach is frustrating me already but to be fair he isnt a LWB. COYB
He's put in several good crosses, but people only seem to notice him when he makes a mistake.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on September 14, 2021, 09:33:12 PM
Apart from a great throw in Furlong really annoys me with his end product both finishing and crossing. So inconsistent
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:33:16 PM
Snoddy on
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: tuamigos on September 14, 2021, 09:33:40 PM
Reach is frustrating me already but to be fair he isnt a LWB. COYB

Really?  I thought he was dong ok
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 14, 2021, 09:33:49 PM
Livermore off for Snodgrass - makes sense, he could easily have got a harsh second yellow.
It would make a lot more sense to me if it was Molumby coming on rather than Snodgrass.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:34:45 PM
I think the players on the pitch have to take some responsibility, first half with robbo on the pitch they lump aimless balls up to him, 2nd half with Hugill on they decide to get it down on the deck and play.

This really - First 5-10 mins we kept hitting it long and Hugill was doing alright.  Then we get it down and start playing it nicely and carving them open and we need Robbo on the pitch.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 14, 2021, 09:35:00 PM
Really?  I thought he was dong ok
So do I.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:36:21 PM
So do I.

Yeah, he's had a much better 2nd half.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 09:36:24 PM
Matt Phillips looks wasted.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:37:57 PM
0-0 IF, we are lucky
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie38 on September 14, 2021, 09:38:17 PM
This is rubbish. That's now three poor performances in a row. Getting ready to finish out of the play offs on these latest performances. We have been found out.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 09:38:19 PM
Furlongs passing and crossing is terrible.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:39:23 PM
We haven't a "finisher"
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 14, 2021, 09:40:14 PM
I don't know who the Sky commentator is, but he's banged on endlessly about Davies and Jagielka as if they're footballing gods.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 14, 2021, 09:41:18 PM
This is rubbish. That's now three poor performances in a row. Getting ready to finish out of the play offs on these latest performances. We have been found out.
Question - why didn't Barnsley get found out last season then?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie38 on September 14, 2021, 09:42:11 PM
Val tirelessly clapping on the sideline like a man panicking that he has been found out.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: BoingFlyer on September 14, 2021, 09:42:27 PM
I don't know who the Sky commentator is, but he's banged on endlessly about Davies and Jagielka as if they're footballing gods.

21 shots, 6 on target and Derby has zero shots would suggest they or the keeper is man of the match.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Baggie79 on September 14, 2021, 09:42:43 PM
Oh just wait for it when we dont score.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: BoingFlyer on September 14, 2021, 09:43:24 PM
Oh just wait for it when we dont score.

Or Derby do
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie38 on September 14, 2021, 09:43:35 PM
Question - why didn't Barnsley get found out last season then?

That was last season. The great Liverpool team that won the Premier league got sussed in their second season. Vals took the exact same style from  his first club and has been found out I fear.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:43:44 PM
Are we even a "mid table Championship" side?
This board are asleep, and do not understand how to go go forward.
They are asleep at the wheel.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: lewisant on September 14, 2021, 09:44:37 PM
Surely it's not Val's fault tonight - he's made 2 half time subs and we've been way better second half, done all but score from the sounds of it.

Are we even a "mid table Championship" side?
This board are asleep, and do not understand how to go go forward.
They are asleep at the wheel.

We're top  :o
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie38 on September 14, 2021, 09:45:27 PM
Surely it's not Val's fault tonight - he's made 2 half time subs and we've been way better second half, done all but score from the sounds of it.

We're top  :o

Won't be for much longer based on the last 3 performances.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:45:52 PM
Surely it's not Val's fault tonight - he's made 2 half time subs and we've been way better second half, done all but score from the sounds of it.

We're top  :o
Asleep in the top bunk
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:46:24 PM
Why don't we let Furlong take the throw ins from the left?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: BoingFlyer on September 14, 2021, 09:46:46 PM
Surely it's not Val's fault tonight - he's made 2 half time subs and we've been way better second half, done all but score from the sounds of it.

We're top  :o

And unbeaten...

No complaints with our performance other than the lack of goals! Plenty of chances and possession.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:47:24 PM
We are terrible at times like this.  Bartley just heads it out of play.  SJ clears it straight out of play.  Just gives Derby chance to time waste.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie38 on September 14, 2021, 09:47:44 PM
2 points from Millwall and Derby at home. Not good enough and certainly not promotion form.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:48:17 PM
And unbeaten...

No complaints with our performance other than the lack of goals! Plenty of chances and possession.
Need a "finisher", but the board are a bean counter employer
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 14, 2021, 09:49:11 PM
2 points from Millwall and Derby at home. Not good enough and certainly not promotion form.

That’s 3 games in a row we’ve been poor.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:49:48 PM
Need a "fi+nisher", but the board are a bean counter employer
A joke employer, really
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 14, 2021, 09:49:54 PM
Snodgrass hasn't been mentioned since he came on, at least we know that Molumby would get involved.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: HampshireBaggie on September 14, 2021, 09:50:14 PM
I must be on my own thinking we’ve not been that bad against a stubborn defensive side. Should have scored 4 by now.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:50:47 PM
5 minutes added
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:50:54 PM
What has SJ done there? 
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:52:01 PM
Our fans' look bored
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 14, 2021, 09:52:22 PM
What has SJ done there?
Indeed, there's no point clearing it quickly when not under pressure just to hoof it straight out of play.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: graka on September 14, 2021, 09:52:36 PM
Is it too early to say Chris wilder is still available?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Webby on September 14, 2021, 09:54:30 PM
This isn’t a poor performance, this should be 4-0. More than enough chances have been created
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2021, 09:55:46 PM
Is it too early to say Chris wilder is still available?
Val is just about an improvement  on Pullis... JUST !!!!
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: lewisant on September 14, 2021, 09:55:50 PM
Some people being a bit dramatic here i think. Bit of poor form but come on now..
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie38 on September 14, 2021, 09:56:15 PM
How we haven't scored in that final 5 mins ill never know.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: baggies_24 on September 14, 2021, 09:56:52 PM
Needs to be that level of performance in the 2nd half we should have won that, concerning we still didn’t create a real clear cut chance. Much better when we got the ball on the floor & played football.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie38 on September 14, 2021, 09:56:53 PM
Val is just about an improvement  on Pullis... JUST !!!!

We could defend under Pulis  :P
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: buzzingbaggie on September 14, 2021, 09:57:28 PM
23 shots, 7 on target.

We should have won 3 or 4 nil, poor finishing.
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 14, 2021, 09:57:45 PM
Val is just about an improvement  on Pullis... JUST !!!!
It's nothing like Pulis.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:58:14 PM
Really poor first 60 minutes.  Last 30 we should have scored - I think we would have if we'd have left CR on, that would have suited him much more than the hoof and hope we played first half.

Derby are shocking - if we hadn't wasted so much time trying to see if we could lump our way to a goal and instead approached the game like we did the last 30 then there's no way we wouldn't have scored 3 or 4.

Diangana man of the match for me. 
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 09:58:35 PM
23 shots, 7 on target.

We should have won 3 or 4 nil, poor finishing.

Summed up by Furlong hitting an open goal over the bar and then in injury time a diving header straight at their keeper from six yards out.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:58:36 PM
Needs to be that level of performance in the 2nd half we should have won that, concerning we still didn’t create a real clear cut chance. Much better when we got the ball on the floor & played football.

Apart from Furlong's open goal?  Diagana missing by inches?  Furlong's header at the end?
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Albionic on September 14, 2021, 09:58:53 PM
terrible first half, better second half BUT played to their strengths throughout.

Unimpressed overall !
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 09:59:15 PM
Summed up by Furlong hitting an open goal over the bar and then in injury time a diving header straight at their keeper from six yards out.

That was a great header at the end - full speed diving header, going past the defender, and you expect him to guide it past the keeper?
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 09:59:17 PM
Gross negligence keeping Phillips on for 90 minutes and subbing Robinson at half time.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: seteefeet on September 14, 2021, 09:59:21 PM
Battered them second half, they had the jammiest keeper in the world but, our bubble has burst. No press and nobody who can finish. Balls in the box galore but no quality in there.

Still deserved to win but reminiscent of Bilic after lockdown, all a bit aimless.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: frazzle on September 14, 2021, 09:59:40 PM
Diangana outstanding - especially on the left where he must now stay. Daft taking Robinson off only to then play some football which would have suited him.

The second half is a much better template of how we should play.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Baggie79 on September 14, 2021, 09:59:59 PM
West Brom 0 - 0 Derby u18s
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 10:00:09 PM
Gross negligence keeping Phillips on for 90 minutes and subbing Robinson at half time.

Phillips came on at half time.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: seteefeet on September 14, 2021, 10:00:35 PM
Gross negligence keeping Phillips on for 90 minutes and subbing Robinson at half time.
Phillips came on off the bench
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 10:00:39 PM
Not as bad as Saturday but far from decent.

Sadly the game plans been worked out and fully countered early on in the season. That's not worrying what is worrying is that we don't have an alternative.

Teams will be happy to match us 3-4-3 from now and sit back and let us ping high balls into our slight attackers versus big centre backs. That's all we have. That's all they need to prep for.

Davies and Jagielka combined age of 75 and can't sprint but never had too once. Appalling. They headed and hoofed for 90 minutes. Bread and butter for them. Attacking wise Derby offered nothing.

Don't understand the Snodgrass for Livermore, would have preferred Molumby.

Everything is 100mph all of the time when it doesn't need to be. You can see and feel the panic in the players to get into the opposition final third.

I think if we had turned up and played football against these and Millwall we would have done them, they came to sit back for the point and both teams got it.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: festerp on September 14, 2021, 10:00:46 PM
I thought Hugill was the goal scorer we were looking for?
Title: Re: In Game Chat
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 14, 2021, 10:00:50 PM
Is it too early to say Chris wilder is still available?
Yes, it is.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: frazzle on September 14, 2021, 10:01:00 PM
Gross negligence keeping Phillips on for 90 minutes and subbing Robinson at half time.

Haha gross negligence not even knowing who played in your own team.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 14, 2021, 10:01:04 PM
The main takeaways for me is that we have to be more clinical and don't play so many high balls when our forwards aren't the type of players to do anything with them.

Also, when there are only 3 subs, it does limit the options available for other positions, and the timing of when the final change can be made, when you bring on 2 forwards at half-time.

Ultimately though, it's another 2 points dropped.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 10:02:26 PM
Phillips came on off the bench

For Callum which was negligent. Replace a goal scorer with Phillips. Even more shameful that he looked completely washed up after 75 minutes.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: caravanc58 on September 14, 2021, 10:02:45 PM
Did everything but score somehow.
Diangana looking more like the player we had 2 years ago tonight and Hughil had a decent game.
That was by far the poorest Derby side I've seen for a long time and they're very very Fortuna to steal a point.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 10:03:15 PM
Did everything but score somehow.
Diangana looking more like the player we had 2 years ago tonight and Hughil had a decent game.
That was by far the poorest Derby side I've seen for a long time and they're very very Fortuna to steal a point.

Diangana did great, just needed someone like Pereira to help.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: baggiebof on September 14, 2021, 10:03:51 PM
In isolation, that was fine: we never looked like conceding and their keeper made some good saves whilst a combination of bad luck and poor finishing meant we didn't score, it can happen. The concern of course is that it has come on the back of the last two performances where we have also struggled for goals.

For me, I would like us to refine our play a little for games like this. We look quite effective when we overload down the flank and put in a low cross or a cross to the edge of the box so would like to see that pattern of play a little more frequently.

Going forward, I'd start Hugill up top with Robinson and Diangana either side. The loss of Clarke and O'Shea seems to have slightly blunted our threat at set-plays unfortunately, the return of Clarke will be much welcomed in this regard.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 10:04:09 PM
I thought Hugill was the goal scorer we were looking for?

He doesn't look like a goal scorer to me so far.  Seems a semi-decent Championship level player who will hold the ball up well.  Too often he's stood rooted and doesn't make runs on time.  Perfect example in the second half, Livermore comes forward with the ball towards Hugill and starts to get a nose bleed - he's desperately waiting for Hugill to move or make a run or something, but nothing.  Eventually defenders get around Livermore.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 14, 2021, 10:04:55 PM
Diangana did great, just needed someone like Pereira to help.
Will you be getting a new drum once your current one is worn out?!  ;D
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Baggies on September 14, 2021, 10:04:57 PM
So the first test of Ismael's managerial reign has arrived. 3 teams have now set up with a low block, an aggressive defence and stood up to the aerial game and we have come away with only the 2 goals to show. The blueprint on how to stop our aggressive press is clear for all managers in the league now. Over to Ismael to find a solution.

We should have won tonight. Despite the lack of any truly clear cut chances, Roos has had a blinder tonight. We have had 3 or 4 shots in the box second half which have either been saved or blocked by the last man and Diangana has put in atleast 2 dangerous crosses that have whistled across the face of goal where an outstretched leg would have put us 1 up. On Diangana, he has had a good second half there, but despite all his effort, I can't think of a time one of his crosses in the last few games have found an Albion player. Lots of toil, not much end product.

We lack a cutting edge. I'd love to see one of the front 3 positions to include a player who is able to create something in tight spaces. Instead we have a number of quicker, athlete type players which can be nullified by the low block.

Preston up next. I hope Ismael makes  tactical tweak but on the evidence of his subs so far I'm not convinced he will. Still top of the league, for now.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 10:05:32 PM
Hugill is Hugill, he's not a goalscorer he's just taller than the others when we lump/cross the ball in. He's better than Zohore though so we had to sign him or play Zohore
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Albionic on September 14, 2021, 10:08:55 PM
I think we need to start with Hugill and rough em up then bring on the more dynamic footballer (Robinson) when the CH's are knackered. We are going to struggle to break teams down at the Hawthorns unless we change it up a bit.

In short we are getting Pulised and havent got an answer  (yet) !!
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: alex1 on September 14, 2021, 10:09:01 PM
Lost count of the number of crosses we put in. Not all of them great, but still nobody able to anticipate and finish them off.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: seteefeet on September 14, 2021, 10:09:15 PM
For Callum which was negligent. Replace a goal scorer with Phillips. Even more shameful that he looked completely washed up after 75 minutes.
Thats not what you said though.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: paulosull on September 14, 2021, 10:10:47 PM
Should have won but not clinical enough in front of goal which is totally down to board who have failed Val with not bringing in a goal scorer. Hope Ishmael realises his mistake and keeps Grady on the left hand side where he was causing Derby all sorts of problems. Needs to find a solution to playing against teams that sit deep as Valball isn’t working and doesn’t look great.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: DevonInStripes on September 14, 2021, 10:14:22 PM
Defensively I thought it was the best we’ve looked . Reach looked good in his first league start , Grady played like we know he can . CR sub surprised me ,but apart from the FK on target I couldn’t remember Grant doing much .On another day we would have comfortably won with the chances we had .
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Albionic on September 14, 2021, 10:18:08 PM
just like to ask, how bad are Derby, stone walled relegation side for me !
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: johnny Cash on September 14, 2021, 10:21:01 PM
There must be another reason Robinson was withdrawn, has to have been under the weather or injuried, surely.

We lacked a cutting edge as has already been said. Diangana had shades of his old self in the second half though.

Hopefully Preston being at home they have to show a bit more ambition than Millwall and Derby which will hopefully play in to our hands.

The one positive is there is still not really a side who has looked like really beating us but it is two poor results at home in reality where we should have put some real daylight between us and the pack. It’s no good saying it’s fine we are top after so few games.

I’ll give it until 10 games before I really start to judge VI but there’s some reasonable concerns. I do think tonight was just one of those games though and when we do that to sides we will win more than we lose. We are capable of some decent football and we don’t need to be hoofing it as much as we do.

The press and energy can still work with the talent we have with a few tweaks and choosing when to lump it and when to play is key if VI can accept it.  In this division we should be smart enough to know when we’ve got teams playing for a draw and adjust accordingly.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: paulosull on September 14, 2021, 10:21:35 PM
Lost count of the number of crosses we put in. Not all of them great, but still nobody able to anticipate and finish them off.
unless we have our defenders in box it’s a waste of time putting crosses in as we have only Hugil if he’s playing who is a number 9. Grant,Grady and Robinson won’t win headers against bigger and stronger defenders.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 10:22:42 PM
Plenty of crosses but too high. We don't have Diagne up front anymore.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 10:24:14 PM
Hugill is Hugill, he's not a goalscorer he's just taller than the others when we lump/cross the ball in. He's better than Zohore though so we had to sign him or play Zohore

On the half way line he holds the ball up well and links up play well but throw a cross in the box and he is nowhere to be seen.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: alex1 on September 14, 2021, 10:24:20 PM
Derby packed their defence and all the shots to the Derby keeper were stoppable. We got loads of crosses in, but we didn't get players into the box to meet them or we got outnumbered.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: festerp on September 14, 2021, 10:26:54 PM
You know I don't remember Pereira winning alot of headers but he could score. Messi doesn't win headers but he can score.  Why don't we keep the ball down and dribble some and beat them with quickness and skill over the lumping and jumping.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: mini gaardsoe on September 14, 2021, 10:27:19 PM
Didn’t replace Matheus with anyone creative and didn’t buy a striker, absolutely criminal. Can’t see anyone hitting 10+ and that will cost us.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 10:27:35 PM
On the half way line he holds the ball up well and links up play well but throw a cross in the box and he is nowhere to be seen.

I know. Most of us said we needed a proper CF who suited this system but they were too tight to get Dike.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 10:28:15 PM
You know I don't remember Pereira winning alot of headers but he could score. Messi doesn't win headers but he can score.  Why don't we keep the ball down and dribble some and beat them with quickness and skill over the lumping and jumping.

It's beginning to look like Val only has 1 way to play sadly.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Albionic on September 14, 2021, 10:28:42 PM
There are numerous posts on here from pre-match which say that if we throw the ball into the box we will be playing to their strengths, so what did we do for 60 minutes ?
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: GREGMT on September 14, 2021, 10:29:49 PM
Still laughing at how bad Derby are.  Guaranteed to finish bottom 6 playing like that.

I thought we were outstanding.  On another night we win that 4-0.  It was one of those nights you see in football.

Some observations:

1) Diangana really is miles better than Grant.
2) Reach is a very decent footballer.
3) Do we really need Livermore anymore?  If Molumby can transition quicker through midfield, then use him plus we have Snodgrass too.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: festerp on September 14, 2021, 10:32:16 PM
I know. Most of us said we needed a proper CF who suited this system but they were too tight to get Dike.

Hey I can tell you I've been clamoring for Dike in national team set up too but Berhalter is next to useless and won't play him.  He keeps going with Big Red cause he works hard...
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2021, 10:33:36 PM
Still laughing at how bad Derby are.  Guaranteed to finish bottom 6 playing like that.

I thought we were outstanding.  On another night we win that 4-0.  It was one of those nights you see in football.

Some observations:

1) Diangana really is miles better than Grant.
2) Reach is a very decent footballer.
3) Do we really need Livermore anymore?  If Molumby can transition quicker through midfield, then use him plus we have Snodgrass too.

Snodgrass offered nothing when he came on.  Livermore is a better option in the middle.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 10:35:47 PM
Hey I can tell you I've been clamoring for Dike in national team set up too but Berhalter is next to useless and won't play him.  He keeps going with Big Red cause he works hard...

Sorry mate I'm not American so most of that is lost on me.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: festerp on September 14, 2021, 10:39:50 PM
Sorry mate I'm not American so most of that is lost on me.
Well we can't all be perfect eh? Berhalter is our head coach through nepotism.  Big Red is Josh Sargeant who works hard and plays in Germany.  All that said I really wish Uncle Ken would have spent some of that Pereira money on Dike and our goal record might just be better.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 10:41:51 PM
Well we can't all be perfect eh? Berhalter is our head coach through nepotism.  Big Red is Josh Sargeant who works hard and plays in Germany.  All that said I really wish Uncle Ken would have spent some of that Pereira money on Dike and our goal record might just be better.

We all wanted Dike mate but the board were too busy chucking the money around extending contracts that didn't need extending.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Oldbury24 on September 14, 2021, 10:48:44 PM
Very poor first half.  Good second half.  One chance gets taken and we score four.

Val still working it out with this squad. 
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Atomic on September 14, 2021, 10:48:47 PM
Game of two halves. First half very poor again, second half we battered them, just lacked composure when we needed it.

Diangana had his best game for ages second half, Hugill led the line very well, Mowatt, Reach, instrumental. Furlong shouldve scored. Phillips looked off his game. Bartley had a good game.

Disappointed not to get the three points but we move on. Bring on Preston.



Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: festerp on September 14, 2021, 10:51:23 PM
We all wanted Dike mate but the board were too busy chucking the money around extending contracts that didn't need extending.
By chance do we know how many members we have on the board?  Was this a consensus way to spend the money or was 1 member deciding for all? I know money is down in the championship over all due to the rona but you get what you pay for.  Much like my Ravens paid on the cheap for Offensive line help and let the QB take a whooping, seems reinvesting in the team for younger hungry players need to be pushed.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 10:55:58 PM
By chance do we know how many members we have on the board?  Was this a consensus way to spend the money or was 1 member deciding for all? I know money is down in the championship over all due to the rona but you get what you pay for.  Much like my Ravens paid on the cheap for Offensive line help and let the QB take a whooping, seems reinvesting in the team for younger hungry players need to be pushed.

I think transfers are between Ken the other bloke and the consultant we hire as and when needed unless Chairman Lai decides to get involved like with the Pereira deal.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: graka on September 14, 2021, 10:58:11 PM
The only positives for me were diangana back on the left and looking like he is coming back into form and Reach played ok.
Negatives are hugill is a slightly more willing Zohore and Livermore is still incapable of passing a ball. Grant was attrocious again ditto Phillips when he came on.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Westie on September 14, 2021, 10:59:39 PM
It's beginning to look like Val only has 1 way to play sadly.

That’s what the Barnsley fans have been saying. Unfortunately, his options are limited owing to the paucity of the squad.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Ross on September 14, 2021, 11:00:33 PM
Really poor playing 5 at back against derby
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Adder on September 14, 2021, 11:01:16 PM
For Callum which was negligent. Replace a goal scorer with Phillips. Even more shameful that he looked completely washed up after 75 minutes.
You seem to be on Phillips' case big time tonight. He didn't look completely washed up and did as much as anyone else to try and win it when he came on including the late cross from the left for Furlongs headed chance which was the closest we got all night.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 11:02:35 PM
That’s what the Barnsley fans have been saying. Unfortunately, his options are limited owing to the paucity of the squad.

I didn't read any comments from them that were negative about him to be fair but then I only saw a small percentage no doubt.

Whoever we have next is likely setting up 3-4-3 against us regardless.

I don't blame VI for the transfers of course.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: hardtobeat on September 14, 2021, 11:03:15 PM
It's beginning to look like Val only has 1 way to play sadly.
Bit harsh certainly made adjustments for and during 2nd half. Looked more like a back four at the start of second half that quickly became a back two as Derby showed zero ambition to get forward . Ball was played much more through m/f as game wore on with several really good crossses and crossing positions were created sadly we didn’t just have  the finishing touch
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 11:05:57 PM
Bit harsh certainly made adjustments for and during 2nd half. Looked more like a back four at the start of second half that quickly became a back two as Derby showed zero ambition to get forward . Ball was played much more through m/f as game wore on with several really good crossses and crossing positions were created sadly we didn’t just have  the finishing touch

2nd half was better I absolutely agree. We knew what we doing wrong a game ago so I'm just curious as to why we persevered at the start when we knew Derby had the same weaknesses. It was just frustrating to watch tactically.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: KN22 on September 14, 2021, 11:07:35 PM
Second half much better than first. We played football and created more than enough opportunities to win the game. As someone has said this is still a new regime with players learning a very different way of playing. Think we should start Hugill. He may not be great but he’s a centre forward and the style being played cries out for a centre forward.
Grady played really well tonight. Reach did ok and Townsend was fine in a position that is alien to him. Shout out for the much maligned Bartley too. Solid at the back.
A frustrating night but teams do not come to The Hawthorns to entertain us. It is up to us to break them down.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 14, 2021, 11:08:31 PM
Thought the first half was abysmal to be honest - if you’re sat half way in the Halfords or east stand then it must be like watching a game of tennis. It’s okay wanting to be 100mph but it is lacking in control, lacking in quality and plays into the hands of the opposition.

The second half was much better but it lacked any real cutting edge or instinct in front of goal. Mowatt was instrumental in the second half, Diangana was the best player on the pitch and Reach and Furlong provided good width. Hugill held the ball up well but is much more suited to the first half than the second - same as Robinson.

Derby are absolutely woeful and I’m disappointed not to win. Davies and Jagielka won’t have an easier game all season. It’s frustrating as when we got the ball down and played some passes we created openings. It’s a shame we didn’t do that in the first half, get the crowd involved and go onto win.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2021, 11:09:19 PM
You seem to be on Phillips' case big time tonight. He didn't look completely washed up and did as much as anyone else to try and win it when he came on including the late cross from the left for Furlongs headed chance which was the closest we got all night.

Last 15 minutes he was breathing out of his back side and hardly able to move, shocking considering he came on at half time. Fitness levels are terrible.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 14, 2021, 11:11:10 PM
Last 15 minutes he was breathing out of his back side and hardly able to move, shocking considering he came on at half time. Fitness levels are terrible.

If the fitness levels were as terrible as you suggest then he quite simply wouldn’t be in this team.
Title: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 14, 2021, 11:13:35 PM
Vote now

**awaits compliment from Atomic**  :D
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: BlackCountryPride68 on September 14, 2021, 11:14:39 PM
Diangana for me. Honourable mentions to Reach and Mowatt.
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: Atomic on September 14, 2021, 11:14:46 PM
Given it to Mowatt. Pulled the strings second half.

Honourable mentions for Bartley, Reach and Diangana.
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 11:14:50 PM
I've gone for Diangana who was probably a 7 out of 10. Best game ive seen him have in ages. Play him on the left from now on please.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: DevonInStripes on September 14, 2021, 11:15:31 PM
I think Phillips has improved dramatically compared to his time under Slav . Still gives us far more than Grant .
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: Atomic on September 14, 2021, 11:15:56 PM
Vote now

**awaits compliment from Atomic**  :D

Yes very good mate. I'm impressed.  ;D
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: KN22 on September 14, 2021, 11:16:39 PM
Diangana comfortably. So pleased to see that from him tonight.
Reach, Mowatt, Bartley and Townsend also did well.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: alex1 on September 14, 2021, 11:21:17 PM
I'd like to see more of Snodgrass though he probably can't last 90 minutes. Gives us extra guile and clever chips. That said, our biggest problem this evening was finishing off the chances.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Baggies on September 14, 2021, 11:22:58 PM
Really poor playing 5 at back against derby

Is it 5 at the back though? Tosnsend and Furlong spend most of the game in attacking positions and in attacking phases of the game we often leave only 2 players on the half way line.
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 14, 2021, 11:23:31 PM
Diangana for me too. Back to the Diangana of old.
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: hardtobeat on September 14, 2021, 11:24:41 PM
Diangana by a country mile
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Ross on September 14, 2021, 11:25:48 PM
Is it 5 at the back though? Tosnsend and Furlong spend most of the game in attacking positions and in attacking phases of the game we often leave only 2 players on the half way line.

Haha, don’t know what it is, but would prefer Philips in for Reach. At least phillips goes at them and a back 4 v derby is entirely reasonable
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 14, 2021, 11:26:21 PM
Is it 5 at the back though? Tosnsend and Furlong spend most of the game in attacking positions and in attacking phases of the game we often leave only 2 players on the half way line.

Yep - that second half was pretty much two at the back with Reach and Townsend pushing wider and further up the pitch. Our best passages of play came down that left hand side.

The issue isn’t necessarily five at the back, two at the back, how many centre halves play - the issue is that we concede any control of the game because of Ismael’s obsession with intensity.
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: alex1 on September 14, 2021, 11:29:38 PM
I went Dianga too mainly because of his improvement over the last few games. We need someone who can run at and commit defenders with the ball. Otherwise only Phillips and Robinson can do it, to a lesser degree.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: hardtobeat on September 14, 2021, 11:29:48 PM
Big disappointment for me was Robinson. It’s easy to say hoofball doesn’t suit him which it doesn’t but he has to show and demand the ball more then he has to hold onto it. Didn’t think he did much of anything along those lines indeed at time I thought he was hiding from our players behind the defender nearest to him
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 11:32:23 PM
I agree Robinson wasn't great tonight. Just not at it.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: beechyboy90 on September 14, 2021, 11:34:01 PM
Better get used to that big val thats 3 games in the trot the opposition have set up to nulify the press need to try somethint new.

I thought when we got the ball down and played quickly on the deck we looked very dangerous however we didnt do that enough. Crosses into box meat and drink again for opposition centre backs... unless we start hugil we dont have much chance of scoring from a header.

Grant looked pants rightly hooked. Robinson change worried me although he hadnt been in game second half would have suited him hope he isnt injured.

Reach did some great wing play however we can sling balls in all day unless our centre backs are up its pretty futile... Townsend had a good game in the cb role although they didnt really challenge us.

We bypassed cm too much we need to offer for mowatt to do give and go. Would like to see molumby in there for Livermore see if that gives us more quality. Diangana best game for awhile. Offers far more than Grant.

In a week thats 4 points dropped however v milwall i could luve with it due to them being in game. Derby will be wipping boys for most this season. The way we play will suit being away from home if sides come at us but we need a plan B
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 14, 2021, 11:35:04 PM
It’s impossible to be at it when the ball is sailing over your head. If that’s the way he wants to play in the first half then it’s Hugill who needs to start.

That second half set up would have suited Robinson down to the ground.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: alex1 on September 14, 2021, 11:35:42 PM
Big disappointment for me was Robinson. It’s easy to say hoofball doesn’t suit him which it doesn’t but he has to show and demand the ball more then he has to hold onto it. Didn’t think he did much of anything along those lines indeed at time I thought he was hiding from our players behind the defender nearest to him
Long high crosses don't suit his game. He is better at running in behind defenders and picking up loose balls around the box. All round a good player but you have to play to his strengths.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2021, 11:36:53 PM
It’s impossible to be at it when the ball is sailing over your head. If that’s the way he wants to play in the first half then it’s Hugill who needs to start.

That second half set up would have suited Robinson down to the ground.


True but when it was on the ground he didn't seem wise to it either but that was rare in the first half  Frustration maybe.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Ross on September 15, 2021, 12:08:17 AM
Yep - that second half was pretty much two at the back with Reach and Townsend pushing wider and further up the pitch. Our best passages of play came down that left hand side.

The issue isn’t necessarily five at the back, two at the back, how many centre halves play - the issue is that we concede any control of the game because of Ismael’s obsession with intensity.

Missed this - and entirety agree - we had the ball in good places but only 1 maybe 2 at a push in the box. Needs a rethink or a ‘plan b’
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: baggiejohn on September 15, 2021, 12:15:25 AM
It’s impossible to be at it when the ball is sailing over your head. If that’s the way he wants to play in the first half then it’s Hugill who needs to start.

That second half set up would have suited Robinson down to the ground.

I think Hugill needs to be there as a target man, that way we'll score goals from his lay-offs
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: crazedwbafan18 on September 15, 2021, 12:26:50 AM
Difficult not to be a smidge worried after 2 points at home to millwall and derby. I expected us to get it done tonight to be honest on the back of Saturday, but then of course it was a 3 day turnaround. My worry is now whether we’ve become far too predictable that as long as the defenders 6 foot or over then we’re fresh out of our plan A. I know we created a fair bit, but quite clearly we’re not converting those chances, and we really need to up our game on Saturday otherwise we’ll be falling behind and momentum is clearly not with us right now
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 15, 2021, 12:34:59 AM
At last, Grady.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 15, 2021, 12:35:35 AM
Well that was my Valball Hawthorns debut and well, it's dreadful isn't it? Particularly in the first half.

If we're going to persist, which we are, Hugill must start, Diangana must play wide left and it's 1 out of the other 3 for wide right. That focal point is crucial.

While it was awful to watch (from just behind the Derby dugout - I saw a better tennis match on Saturday night  ;D) we still should have won comfortably. Furlong alone has missed a very presentable hat trick of sitters. We'll win far more than we lose through sheer belligerence, but there is no way this translates to a higher level and as such, is there any real future in it?
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: BigFrank20 on September 15, 2021, 05:50:24 AM
That said, our biggest problem this evening was finishing off the chances.
Last night we had 25 shots, 9 on target compared to their 4 shots and none on target
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: baggiebof on September 15, 2021, 07:12:54 AM
there is no way this translates to a higher level and as such, is there any real future in it?

I've been thinking about this for a while now and I'm not sure I've reached the same conclusion. We won't have as much if the ball at a higher level and going up with a system that is built around not having the ball may be effective. Impossible to know but interesting to consider.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Adder on September 15, 2021, 07:13:50 AM
Last 15 minutes he was breathing out of his back side and hardly able to move, shocking considering he came on at half time. Fitness levels are terrible.
Sick of hearing this to be honest. A player is allowed to blow, it's part of recovering and going again. We've seen Phillips create a late winner a couple of games ago and he was on the pitch for the full 90 that time.
All these players are fit, we have to expect one or two to struggle at times when we have 3 games in a week playing this style. Diangana was good last night but was clearly feeling it last 10 or 15 minutes.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: WBAinDEVON on September 15, 2021, 07:14:13 AM
Reach had a good game and must start the next game. frustrating not to score with  30 minutes left with the amount of balls flashing accross their goal. disappointed overall but similar to my prediction its what i expected really
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: hardtobeat on September 15, 2021, 08:33:45 AM
Diangana was good last night but was clearly feeling it last 10 or 15 minutes.
Fairness to Grady he was stretching his hamstrings from just before Livermore was subbed and continued to do so until the end. Hope its just cramp and needs a dunk in the ice bath to sort . Wouldn't be a surprise if he didn't start Saturday and we saw either Grant or Robinson in his place
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: kris_boing on September 15, 2021, 08:38:34 AM
Sounded terrible except for the last 20 minutes.


Radio WM commentator said we reminded him of Wimbledon. Not good.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Albionic on September 15, 2021, 08:44:07 AM
On a tangent (sorry) I am a bit concerned that Mowatt has become average, his first couple of games were excellent but seems to have dropped off somewhat. Is it playing alongside JL ? (don't think so)
Is he knackered ? Is it simply my perceptions wrong ?
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 15, 2021, 08:49:37 AM
On a tangent (sorry) I am a bit concerned that Mowatt has become average, his first couple of games were excellent but seems to have dropped off somewhat. Is it playing alongside JL ? (don't think so)
Is he knackered ? Is it simply my perceptions wrong ?

He was everywhere in the second half last night. Had a good game I thought.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Albionic on September 15, 2021, 08:53:18 AM
He was everywhere in the second half last night. Had a good game I thought.

Maybe I am thinking too much about that god awful first half !  After P'boro / Millwall I thought we had to improve significantly and was very disappointed that we hadnt
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: brummyroader on September 15, 2021, 09:02:21 AM
First half was poor with the aerial bombardment with the front 3 he picked who prefer to play quickly on the floor.

Hugill looks very useful in general play but can’t see him being a goal threat on a regular basis. Second half tbf we could of scored 2 or 3 but even the set plays weren’t overly threatening.

And finally booing at HT or FT when your top of the league is embarrassing ffs
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: johnny Cash on September 15, 2021, 09:03:12 AM
Well that was my Valball Hawthorns debut and well, it's dreadful isn't it? Particularly in the first half.

there is no way this translates to a higher level and as such, is there any real future in it?

Very early on I said I was worried it wouldn’t translate either.  Like you I’m now pretty confident it won’t. .

We’d look like Millwall did on Saturday, only Prem sides would take advantage. Lump it forwards, get played through, penned and repeat.
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: brummyroader on September 15, 2021, 09:04:22 AM
Promising signs from Grady but not too much end product from what I can remember, easily forgettable 90 mins though ;D
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: baggiebof on September 15, 2021, 09:06:01 AM
Very early on I said I was worried it wouldn’t translate either.  Like you I’m now pretty confident it won’t. .

We’d look like Millwall did on Saturday, only Prem sides would take advantage. Lump it forwards, get played through, penned and repeat.

But we wouldn't sit as deep would we, we'd set pressing traps and try, where possible, to win the ball high? Agree that we would get penned in some games but I think we'd be approaching it in general different to the way Milwall approached playing us.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: albion59 on September 15, 2021, 09:07:33 AM
Last night we had 25 shots, 9 on target compared to their 4 shots and none on target
And? The record books will show 0-0. Doesn't matter how many shots we or they have if none go in!
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Albionic on September 15, 2021, 09:12:16 AM
But we wouldn't sit as deep would we, we'd set pressing traps and try, where possible, to win the ball high? Agree that we would get penned in some games but I think we'd be approaching it in general different to the way Milwall approached playing us.

Very previous discussion chaps!  3 games ago I was confident that we would take a top 2 place, my confidence has been seriously undermined by recent performances / tactics
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: phbaggies on September 15, 2021, 09:15:43 AM
I thought Furlong was the best threat throughout the whole match, could have topped it off right at the death too if it wasnt for that pesky keeper!  >:(
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: WBA.R.K on September 15, 2021, 09:21:18 AM
Diangana for us. The Derby Keeper Roos overall.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: phbaggies on September 15, 2021, 09:23:43 AM
I said on Twitter last night in 3 games now, we have had 56 shots, scoring just 2 goals against **** poor opposition, if you dont sign an out and out striker of a decent calibre then this is the conclusion and this will be the reason why we dont go up unless we address it!
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on September 15, 2021, 09:25:38 AM
I may be tired this morning after a long journey back, but I am now quite pessimistic around where we will finish.

a) teams have found ways to counter our tactics.  We have not modified our tactics, and we do not appear to have any real variance in play.
b) on the tactics we are playing, we have lost a degree of crispness- our passes do not connect we do not seem to have much positional awareness.  Confidence seems to be ebbing.
c) I saw the stats on shots, and I and most fans at the match were surprised at this.  Yes their keeper had a good game, but we need to regain the ruthlessness at finishing.  All this taken together from around 30 minutes in, I thought this would be a draw, and this is how it turned out.

Yes we are top of the league, but it is form which is important, and ours is dropping IMO.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: ttree30 on September 15, 2021, 09:51:56 AM
It’s really early days so not clear how this will pan out over the season. We may remain unbeaten but have mostly squandered two home games against two of the also-rans in the Championship, especially Derby who are incredibly lucky not to be in League One and on whom many bookies refused to even offer odds on relegation this season.

That’s a very poor result at home by any standards.

We also know it’s a long campaign with twists and turns.

But this really does feel like an early crossroads moment. Can VI get more variety out of the team, or will the slide in form and results settle into a pattern?

We should know more once another half dozen games have gone by but I think we should hold back on drawing any firm conclusions for now. We don’t yet know.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: boinging_along on September 15, 2021, 09:59:33 AM
The worrying thing in positions like this, is that it seems so glaringly obvious that Millwall and Derby had come with a plan to nullify our tactics but we don't seem able to react to it.  Other sides are going to look at us and think a point will be a decent result so it's an easy decision for them to just hit it long.  Throw in our defence which could give away a goal under any circumstances then you can see why other teams will do it.

The saving grace is that for the last 20 mins or so last night we did seem to try getting it down on the floor a bit more - so maybe there was an attempt to change styles a little after all?
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: BigFrank20 on September 15, 2021, 10:19:14 AM
First half was poor with the aerial bombardment with the front 3 he picked who prefer to play quickly on the floor.
And finally booing at HT or FT when your top of the league is embarrassing ffs
It was quite disquieting as the first half progressed last night to feel and hear the low level disquiet keep building and rippling through the Smethwick as more and more aerial balls got lobbed forward. I unfortunately missed the Millwall match so lacked the pre loading that many of those around me suffered on Saturday
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: NJS on September 15, 2021, 10:20:48 AM
Saw a slice of the Bournemouth - QPR game on Nowtv.

Their second goal was stunning.  Moving the ball through midfield then coming in from the right attracting defenders, transferring to the left, get behind the defence, pass across, Solanke runs between two central defenders and scores .   Apart from the initial switch to an unmarked played on the right, the ball stayed on the ground the whole time. 

The competition looks strong.   :o

Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Cantello on September 15, 2021, 10:27:56 AM
I fear we've been sussed and there's no plan B.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Hull Baggie on September 15, 2021, 10:31:46 AM
1st half was dreadful, just watched the keepers kick the ball to each other for most of it.

Second half we tried to do what we should have done from the off, that is play it on the ground. This would have suited Robinson but we subbed him. When you only have 3 subs to make I'm not sure it's that wise to use 2 of them at half time.

We created plenty of chances and on another night would have scored 2, 3 or 4.

Livermore lucky to not get a second yellow (I assume that's why he was subbed) but otherwise he had another good game. Played some decent forward passes and was solid in the middle.

Diangana is starting to look more like the player we had before, he was better in the second half but he needs to work on his end product. Reach played well but like Diangana needs to work on his end product. Would like to see both cut inside and shoot more.

We have plenty of players who can score from the edge of the box (proven in the past for doing it) but we don't even try to shoot from there that often.

It's frustrating at times watching us try and play at 100mph when we could slow it down a bit and be more effective.

At home sides are going to try and nullify us like Millwall and Derby have done , we need to be more intelligent and be able to break them down. Away from home most sides will try and attack us which generally plays into our hands.

We are definitely missing Clarke and O'Shea both at the back and as attacking options.

Thought the atmosphere was very subdued last night too. It was almost as if the fans were waiting for the players to give us something to sing about and the players wanted the fans to give them an atmosphere to play in.



Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Baggies on September 15, 2021, 10:32:47 AM
Very early on I said I was worried it wouldn’t translate either.  Like you I’m now pretty confident it won’t. .

We’d look like Millwall did on Saturday, only Prem sides would take advantage. Lump it forwards, get played through, penned and repeat.

Is there another way of looking at it though?

We looked decent in our first 3 games, against 3 sides aiming for top 6 finishes. Luton and Sheff Utd in particular tried to play football against us which allowed us to use the press effectively and create a lot of scoring opportunities. Barnsley had the advantage last season of sides rarely sitting back against them and they were able to get into the playoffs with a limited first 11. Further evidence has Ismael’s LASK team reaching the last 16, hammering a Bruno Fernandes led Sporting club de Portugal 3-0 and PSV 4-1 on the way.

Our difficulties have come vs P’boro, Milwall and now Derby, all of whom set up very defensively, looked to get rid of the ball as quickly as they could and for large phases of the game didn’t really commit many men forward.

Now which style of approach are we likely to face in the event of promotion? Will premier league sides sit deep against the small budgeted WBA, or will they more often than not play on the front foot with the ball being passed out from the back?

At the moment we are lacking a couple of key players to make this work - one being a centre forward and another I’d argue being a midfielder with more creativity who can play as part of the front 3. In the premier league we will have more money and might be able to buy somebody to make it work.

I’m not saying it definitely works in the prem, but there is more evidence that it works well vs footballing sides who push forward than there is that it works vs defensive ones. I don’t think we can take Milwall’s and Derby’s tactics as evidence it doesn’t work at a higher level.

Ultimately, we will be one of the poorest sides in the division in the event of promotion. There is no evidence that we have either the scouting system or the clever boardroom level operators to make up the gap on those who have more spending power and so in the short to medium term atleast, Ismael’s slightly unique approach might well be our best bet.

My bigger concern is how you get out of the division playing in such a one dimensional way. He needs to show his managerial ability now and work out a fix.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: seteefeet on September 15, 2021, 10:57:52 AM
I fear we've been sussed and there's no plan B.
Surely the second half was plan B?
We changed personnel, approach and intent and, let's be honest, battered them.
The problem is not creating chances, it's who those chances are falling to. Yes Furlong had 3 gilt edged chances and should have scored at least one, but, he's a full back, it's not his forte. The best finishers we have are probably Grant and Robinson, neither of whom were on the pitch when we finally started to play. We need to replicate yesterday's "Plan B" from the start when the natural finishers are on the pitch and make sure they are the ones in position when the chances arrive.

It is still a learning curve and I honestly think Val is still working out his best approach and personnel. First few games we looked great going forward but dodgy at the back, now we look more solid at the back but dodgy going forward. Hopefully he can find the right balance in the not too distant.

Still top, for now, though, so can't be too downhearted, but we do need to fall into a settled rhythm.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Atomic on September 15, 2021, 11:04:25 AM
1st half was dreadful, just watched the keepers kick the ball to each other for most of it.

Second half we tried to do what we should have done from the off, that is play it on the ground. This would have suited Robinson but we subbed him. When you only have 3 subs to make I'm not sure it's that wise to use 2 of them at half time.

We created plenty of chances and on another night would have scored 2, 3 or 4.

Livermore lucky to not get a second yellow (I assume that's why he was subbed) but otherwise he had another good game. Played some decent forward passes and was solid in the middle.

Diangana is starting to look more like the player we had before, he was better in the second half but he needs to work on his end product. Reach played well but like Diangana needs to work on his end product. Would like to see both cut inside and shoot more.

We have plenty of players who can score from the edge of the box (proven in the past for doing it) but we don't even try to shoot from there that often.

It's frustrating at times watching us try and play at 100mph when we could slow it down a bit and be more effective.

At home sides are going to try and nullify us like Millwall and Derby have done , we need to be more intelligent and be able to break them down. Away from home most sides will try and attack us which generally plays into our hands.

We are definitely missing Clarke and O'Shea both at the back and as attacking options.

Thought the atmosphere was very subdued last night too. It was almost as if the fans were waiting for the players to give us something to sing about and the players wanted the fans to give them an atmosphere to play in.

The atmosphere was awful back to usual following good atmosphere's first two home games.

God knows what sort of home advantage you get when all you can hear is the away fans. Terrible Smethwick and Brummie.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Cantello on September 15, 2021, 11:26:56 AM
Where's a Kevin Phillips when you need him?
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: tuamigos on September 15, 2021, 11:38:44 AM
Where's a Kevin Phillips when you need him?

In Newcastles reserves  ;)
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: johnny Cash on September 15, 2021, 12:17:52 PM
Is there another way of looking at it though?

We looked decent in our first 3 games, against 3 sides aiming for top 6 finishes. Luton and Sheff Utd in particular tried to play football against us which allowed us to use the press effectively and create a lot of scoring opportunities. Barnsley had the advantage last season of sides rarely sitting back against them and they were able to get into the playoffs with a limited first 11. Further evidence has Ismael’s LASK team reaching the last 16, hammering a Bruno Fernandes led Sporting club de Portugal 3-0 and PSV 4-1 on the way.

Our difficulties have come vs P’boro, Milwall and now Derby, all of whom set up very defensively, looked to get rid of the ball as quickly as they could and for large phases of the game didn’t really commit many men forward.

Now which style of approach are we likely to face in the event of promotion? Will premier league sides sit deep against the small budgeted WBA, or will they more often than not play on the front foot with the ball being passed out from the back?

At the moment we are lacking a couple of key players to make this work - one being a centre forward and another I’d argue being a midfielder with more creativity who can play as part of the front 3. In the premier league we will have more money and might be able to buy somebody to make it work.

I’m not saying it definitely works in the prem, but there is more evidence that it works well vs footballing sides who push forward than there is that it works vs defensive ones. I don’t think we can take Milwall’s and Derby’s tactics as evidence it doesn’t work at a higher level.

Ultimately, we will be one of the poorest sides in the division in the event of promotion. There is no evidence that we have either the scouting system or the clever boardroom level operators to make up the gap on those who have more spending power and so in the short to medium term atleast, Ismael’s slightly unique approach might well be our best bet.

My bigger concern is how you get out of the division playing in such a one dimensional way. He needs to show his managerial ability now and work out a fix.

You may be right. Hopefully we get promoted and find out.

However I’d put your thoughts on this particular matter alongside those that claimed Krovinovic would be more suited to the prem. I think it’s romantic / hopeful at best that the struggle wouldn’t just be worse against better sides if the blue print was copied and pasted.

Better players would obviously help us, but then so would some tactical flexibility.

Although I don’t think we needed to change anything last night. We had enough control and enough chances, we just lacked the cutting edge as you said in your first post match comment.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: KN22 on September 15, 2021, 12:53:32 PM
He was everywhere in the second half last night. Had a good game I thought.

I think he played well last night too.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: wodenson46 on September 15, 2021, 01:09:36 PM
I said on Twitter last night in 3 games now, we have had 56 shots, scoring just 2 goals against **** poor opposition, if you dont sign an out and out striker of a decent calibre then this is the conclusion and this will be the reason why we dont go up unless we address it!

Agree entirely but it not a new issue is it? We have needed a decent out and out striker for a long time now.

Re last night ok it was at times uselessly frenetic especially for most of the first half. However even then, there was at least one passage of play down our left side that was really good, fast, on the ground pass and move football. We have the players to play like this and create chances to get through packed defences. Yes we needed perhaps to do more of this that first half but we also are still learning the high press stuff and not quite getting it going as well as in the early games because teams like Millwall and Derby show little ambition themselves. We will, I hope, learn how and when to use both styles during games.

In spite of the messages of doom and gloom from the usual mob who seem never to have seen anything good about the team they support, it is my belief that we actually have some pretty decent players who are certainly not skiving about like some of their predecessors, and a manager who knows what he wants, and how to get what he wants. I can understand the reservations expressed by a few, but personally I think we should give it all a bit more time and see how the season progresses before passing final irrevocable judgement. I also think that promotion as champions, then 5 years in the top six of the premier league would not satisfy some of us.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: alex1 on September 15, 2021, 01:44:47 PM
And? The record books will show 0-0. Doesn't matter how many shots we or they have if none go in!
Id be far more concerned if we'd had just 2 shots rather than 25. On the law of averages, you'd expect more of a return on 25 shots. 

However, we do seem to have a problem with finishing. There was nobody on the end of numerous crosses and when we did get someone on the end, the shots were blocked or straight at the keeper. I don't think the Derby keeper's performance was that special. The shots were all stoppable by a standard keeper. We need to work on our finishing and you'd hope there's room for improvement. Its basic ball skills, being able to strike a ball cleanly and accurately.

As others have said, we need to vary our attacks more. Sure you need to get crosses in from the flanks, but we also need to work on setting up chances from around the edge of the box. A player like Mowatt looks ideal for that, maybe Snodgrass also. Are they being brought into the game enough?   

Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Hull Baggie on September 15, 2021, 03:44:30 PM
Interesting article on Football Fancast about Diangana including his rating on Sofascore.

https://www.footballfancast.com/west-brom-news/west-bromwich-albion-wba-the-baggies-team-news-valerien-ismael-grady-diangana-derby-county-the-championship
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Albionic on September 15, 2021, 03:52:57 PM
Interesting article on Football Fancast about Diangana including his rating on Sofascore.

https://www.footballfancast.com/west-brom-news/west-bromwich-albion-wba-the-baggies-team-news-valerien-ismael-grady-diangana-derby-county-the-championship

Wow, thats a surprise and flies in the face of our MOTM voting !
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Atomic on September 15, 2021, 04:03:39 PM
Wow, thats a surprise and flies in the face of our MOTM voting !

It isnt really it's just that our fans think he is much better than he actually is. They love the little flicks and the things that are easy on the eye but most of the time he's ineffective.

Dont get me wrong, it was his best performance for some time against Derby, second half, but that just emphasises the problem and despite the improvement still no goal and no assist. First half he was awful, improved after the break.

He's a forward in this system and has to contribute goals and assists, that's what wins you games not some nutmeg on the touchline.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: Albionic on September 15, 2021, 10:43:09 PM
It isnt really it's just that our fans think he is much better than he actually is. They love the little flicks and the things that are easy on the eye but most of the time he's ineffective.

Dont get me wrong, it was his best performance for some time against Derby, second half, but that just emphasises the problem and despite the improvement still no goal and no assist. First half he was awful, improved after the break.

He's a forward in this system and has to contribute goals and assists, that's what wins you games not some nutmeg on the touchline.

Jeeze, were you watching Willie back in the day? Wee willie was not prolific but he provided great opportunities, however his success was dependent on the likes of the King & Bomber getting on the end of his crosses. If Grady didnt put a couple on a plate against Derby, I must have been dreaming.

Grady has been rubbish for a while but he was not against Derby and how those statistics say he was rubbish baffles me.
Title: Re: After Match Debate
Post by: boinging_along on September 15, 2021, 10:50:21 PM
Let's not forget he was absolutely outstanding that first half of the season in the Championship.  Didn't get much game time in the Prem and hasn't really been a regular in his natural position this season.

Diangana will come good, for me he'd be the first name down and would put him on the left side.  Would like to see him play with Robbo, with Phillips on the right and for us to try and get the ball down a bit when teams can't be pressed.  That front three would be enough against most teams in this division.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if you get Messi on the pitch if the ball lands nowhere near him.
Title: Re: Man of the match vs Derby
Post by: SmethDan on September 16, 2021, 07:48:29 AM
I thought Furlong was the best threat throughout the whole match.......

Agreed, he made me nervous to be in the Smeth' during the first half and the Brummie must have been terrified during the second half  ;) .