Author Topic: Under 23's / Academy Thread (Read 656601 times)

Blandy · « **Reply #1900 on:** April 29, 2021, 10:55:39 AM »

Couple of Academy bits if you're interested.

Someone mentioned the Southampton game earlier in the thread. Layton Love, who scored the first, is indeed still at school. He's an U16 who wasn't originally in the squad but someone dropped out last minute.

Zac Ashworth, who scored the winner v Everton is Dan's son (his youngest lad is at Wolves) & centre back Caleb Taylor is former Blues & Watford CB Martin Taylor's lad.

Rumour is that Aurio Teixeira (who rejoices in the nickname "Biscuit") has not had his contract extended, so will leave in June. I stress that's the rumour, there's been nothing official on who is going and who's staying.

I understand why everyone is a bit fixated on Louie Barry, but the Villa U18s will also feature other ex Baggies, including Brad Young (who scored 4 against us last time) and Chisum Afoka.

Baggies · « **Reply #1901 on:** April 29, 2021, 11:02:40 AM »

Thanks for the info blandy, always useful to get updates like that which you wouldn't normally get in the local press.

Shame to hear Villa have 3 ex Albion lads. That's quite a large number, when you factor in the loss of the kid to Everton as well. It shows just how much we haemorrhage players at youth level now. So strange when you look st clubs like Norwich, Southampton and Leicester who seem to be able to keep the vast majority of their kids.

It seems our reputation of being a top scouting academy hurts us.

wodenson46 · « **Reply #1902 on:** April 29, 2021, 11:13:54 AM »

Don't understand Aurio Teixeira not getting a new contract. Have seen him a few times now and he is a very busy midfielder, low centre of gravity, good tackler and ball winner who can also pick a pass. He was exceptional against the Everton/kids. Maybe it's because we already have so many good DM's on our books

SmethDan · « **Reply #1903 on:** April 29, 2021, 12:32:05 PM »

Teixeira's got a lovely touch and very good technique. Quick feet and likes a tackle too. Being diminutive didn't hamper Kante too much (not drawing comparisons with the finished article

).

Adder · « **Reply #1904 on:** April 29, 2021, 03:59:59 PM »

We've lost a few it seems. Just wondering how many lads we might have picked up from elsewhere ? I think 2 or 3 followed Richard Stephens from Coventry to us when he took over as academy manager, can't remember who though.

cads_ap_albion · « **Reply #1905 on:** April 29, 2021, 10:05:23 PM »

Quote from: Blandy on April 29, 2021, 10:55:39 AM

Couple of Academy bits if you're interested.

Someone mentioned the Southampton game earlier in the thread. Layton Love, who scored the first, is indeed still at school. He's an U16 who wasn't originally in the squad but someone dropped out last minute.

Zac Ashworth, who scored the winner v Everton is Dan's son (his youngest lad is at Wolves) & centre back Caleb Taylor is former Blues & Watford CB Martin Taylor's lad.

Rumour is that Aurio Teixeira (who rejoices in the nickname "Biscuit") has not had his contract extended, so will leave in June. I stress that's the rumour, there's been nothing official on who is going and who's staying.

I understand why everyone is a bit fixated on Louie Barry, but the Villa U18s will also feature other ex Baggies, including Brad Young (who scored 4 against us last time) and Chisum Afoka.

Why did the three lads go to Villa? Contracts? Or the influence of Harrison? Villa also are throwing money around big time.

SmethDan · « **Reply #1906 on:** April 30, 2021, 07:59:49 AM »

Quote from: cads_ap_albion on April 29, 2021, 10:05:23 PM

Why did the three lads go to Villa? Contracts? Or the influence of Harrison? Villa also are throwing money around big time.

Probably a mixture of all those things allied to newer training facilities, higher profile club (whether we like it or not) and the possibility they might be Vilers wanting to play for 'their' club. Hopcroft established a number of football youth satellite coaching set ups in more traditionally Villa supporting areas.

Blandy · « **Reply #1907 on:** April 30, 2021, 09:52:11 AM »

Quote from: SmethDan on April 30, 2021, 07:59:49 AM

Probably a mixture of all those things allied to newer training facilities, higher profile club (whether we like it or not) and the possibility they might be Vilers wanting to play for 'their' club. Hopcroft established a number of football youth satellite coaching set ups in more traditionally Villa supporting areas.

It's interesting that most people's first thought is they've been poached in some way. Whilst the Barry deal was well publicised, Afoka was bought this season at, as far as I'm aware, full EPPP compensation but Brad Young was released by Albion at about 15.
Ollie Tipton, who captains Wolves 18s and has just got a pro contract was released at 11/12. Owen Farmer, an U16 at Wolves playing and scoring regularly for their 18s was released around 12 too.

Sometimes, they get it wrong.

As regards players coming from Coventry, I'm not aware of any.

SmethDan · « **Reply #1908 on:** April 30, 2021, 10:17:55 AM »

Players mature at different rates physically, emotionally and in terms of tactical and general footballing know how. There are times when wrong calls are made.

There are also times when the stars align for those who are retained only for their sparkle to fade. Time, tide and finance provide for shifting sands.

For example, I'd be loathe to let Teixeira slip through the net as has been suggested may be the case earlier. But then I've no idea whether the coaching staff feel he may be blocking the pathway of someone they feel may have even more potential.

Either way we can't keep everyone.

Blandy · « **Reply #1909 on:** April 30, 2021, 10:43:59 AM »

Quote from: SmethDan on April 30, 2021, 10:17:55 AM

Players mature at different rates physically, emotionally and in terms of tactical and general footballing know how. There are times when wrong calls are made.

There are also times when the stars align for those who are retained only for their sparkle to fade. Time, tide and finance provide for shifting sands.

For example, I'd be loathe to let Teixeira slip through the net as has been suggested may be the case earlier. But then I've no idea whether the coaching staff feel he may be blocking the pathway of someone they feel may have even more potential.

Either way we can't keep everyone.

Exactly this, well put. My point was it's not always the "fault" of the club they end up at.

cads_ap_albion · « **Reply #1910 on:** April 30, 2021, 12:19:19 PM »

Also, lads get released due to misdemeanours...

I am aware of two wba youth who the club have reluctantly let go...

SmethDan · « **Reply #1911 on:** April 30, 2021, 12:47:56 PM »

Quote from: cads_ap_albion on April 30, 2021, 12:19:19 PM

Also, lads get released due to misdemeanours...

I am aware of two wba youth who the club have reluctantly let go...

I feel as though we are on the cusp of some genuinely intriguing rumour..... on a football forum....... at last........ this is just the kind of stuff I've been waiting for

.

NJS · « **Reply #1912 on:** April 30, 2021, 01:47:12 PM »

From BBC website

"Southampton are monitoring West Brom goalkeeper Josh Griffiths before a potential summer move for the 19-year-old, who has impressed on loan at Cheltenham this season. (Football Insider)"

As someone said above, you can have a decent academy but your best products are poached. Perhaps better to go the Brentford way and have a comprehensive statistical way of identifying talent that is regarded as fringe by traditional scouting measures (cf Toney).

... or use better measures to contract the best talent coming out of the academy?

beechyboy90 · « **Reply #1913 on:** April 30, 2021, 07:38:13 PM »

Quote from: NJS on April 30, 2021, 01:47:12 PM

From BBC website

"Southampton are monitoring West Brom goalkeeper Josh Griffiths before a potential summer move for the 19-year-old, who has impressed on loan at Cheltenham this season. (Football Insider)"

As someone said above, you can have a decent academy but your best products are poached. Perhaps better to go the Brentford way and have a comprehensive statistical way of identifying talent that is regarded as fringe by traditional scouting measures (cf Toney).

... or use better measures to contract the best talent coming out of the academy?

Those bar stewards sounds like we need to tie him down to a longer deal... he needs to be back at Cheltenham next year and taste league 1

johnny Cash · « **Reply #1914 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:18:46 PM »

Quote from: NJS on April 30, 2021, 01:47:12 PM

From BBC website

"Southampton are monitoring West Brom goalkeeper Josh Griffiths before a potential summer move for the 19-year-old, who has impressed on loan at Cheltenham this season. (Football Insider)"

As someone said above, you can have a decent academy but your best products are poached. Perhaps better to go the Brentford way and have a comprehensive statistical way of identifying talent that is regarded as fringe by traditional scouting measures (cf Toney).

... or use better measures to contract the best talent coming out of the academy?

I think we did thankfully contract Griffiths. Pretty sure he signed a 4 year deal last year.

Standaman · « **Reply #1915 on:** April 30, 2021, 08:58:25 PM »

Griffiths signed a contract until 2023 last year.

LiamTheBaggie · « **Reply #1916 on:** April 30, 2021, 11:37:41 PM »

Quote from: Standaman on April 30, 2021, 08:58:25 PM

Griffiths signed a contract until 2023 last year.

It might be worth renegotiating that given the promise heâ€™s shown this year..

Baggies · « **Reply #1917 on:** May 01, 2021, 07:42:56 AM »

I would be interested in what Southampton put on the table. Goalkeepers who have been prodigies at a young age like Ramsdale, Carson, Butland, Joe Lewis etc have ended up tailing off just as often as they go on to succeed. We let a keeper go a few months ago who had several England youth caps up to U21 level in Jonathan Bond, which shows how hard it is for young keepers.

I'd love to keep him, but if Southampton were to put a Â£10m offer on the table (which I doubt), i'd consider it.

Baggies · « **Reply #1918 on:** May 01, 2021, 07:45:34 AM »

Quote from: Blandy on April 30, 2021, 09:52:11 AM

It's interesting that most people's first thought is they've been poached in some way. Whilst the Barry deal was well publicised, Afoka was bought this season at, as far as I'm aware, full EPPP compensation but Brad Young was released by Albion at about 15.
Ollie Tipton, who captains Wolves 18s and has just got a pro contract was released at 11/12. Owen Farmer, an U16 at Wolves playing and scoring regularly for their 18s was released around 12 too.

Sometimes, they get it wrong.

As regards players coming from Coventry, I'm not aware of any.

In fairness, that is 2 of the 3 we have had poached from us though isn't it. I take your point about Brad Young though and Ollie Tipton. Forss at Brentford is an example of how hard it is to predict youth footballers potential.

cads_ap_albion · « **Reply #1919 on:** May 01, 2021, 08:24:47 AM »

Quote from: SmethDan on April 30, 2021, 12:47:56 PM

I feel as though we are on the cusp of some genuinely intriguing rumour..... on a football forum....... at last........ this is just the kind of stuff I've been waiting for .

These go back 5 years.

I was just saying players are let go for a lot more than just their talent.

Standaman · « **Reply #1920 on:** May 01, 2021, 09:04:46 AM »

Quote from: Baggies on May 01, 2021, 07:42:56 AM

I would be interested in what Southampton put on the table. Goalkeepers who have been prodigies at a young age like Ramsdale, Carson, Butland, Joe Lewis etc have ended up tailing off just as often as they go on to succeed. We let a keeper go a few months ago who had several England youth caps up to U21 level in Jonathan Bond, which shows how hard it is for young keepers.

I'd love to keep him, but if Southampton were to put a Â£10m offer on the table (which I doubt), i'd consider it.

Southampton bought one of the most promising goalkeeping prospects in Angus Gunn from Man City for Â£10m a couple of seasons back he has now taken Butland's spot on Stoke City's bench. They also picked up Jack Rose when we released him and I did wonder if he was one we had let get away but I guess not as he is currently at Walsall.

If I was Josh I'd avoid Southampton good things don't happen to goalkeepers down there.

Baggies · « **Reply #1921 on:** May 01, 2021, 10:59:12 AM »

Yep, I nearly included Gunn in the list of much heralded young English goalkeepers.

While I'd like to keep Griffiths, his stock is very high at the moment and he has a good contract. If a top side did want to make a move for the top teenage English goalkeeper and if they wanted to speculate with a tempting offer, I wouldn't blame the club at all. It justifies the academy if we are getting good fees for the youngsters.

Its worth noting as well one of the criticisms of Griffiths from the Cheltenham end is distribution- something a lot of people in football are rightly or wrongly seeing as a key modern goalkeeper skillset now.

TheJacko2000 · « **Reply #1922 on:** May 01, 2021, 11:10:33 AM »

Quote from: Baggies on May 01, 2021, 10:59:12 AM

Yep, I nearly included Gunn in the list of much heralded young English goalkeepers.

While I'd like to keep Griffiths, his stock is very high at the moment and he has a good contract. If a top side did want to make a move for the top teenage English goalkeeper and if they wanted to speculate with a tempting offer, I wouldn't blame the club at all. It justifies the academy if we are getting good fees for the youngsters.

Its worth noting as well one of the criticisms of Griffiths from the Cheltenham end is distribution- something a lot of people in football are rightly or wrongly seeing as a key modern goalkeeper skillset now.

Unless the player is exceptional at this (Ederson), it doesn't seem to make much difference imo. Alisson, Lloris, De Gea no better than average with the ball at their feet.

SmethDan · « **Reply #1923 on:** May 01, 2021, 11:11:46 AM »

Nor Pope.

Standaman · « **Reply #1924 on:** May 01, 2021, 11:24:18 AM »

It is really tough to know what to do with Griffiths. The general view seems to be that he is going to be better than Palmer but right now Palmer who is 5 years his senior is further along his development path. It would be a huge call to promote Griffiths ahead of Palmer and go into a Championship season with a 20 year old as the first choice keeper and that just feels like a step too far.

Yet a season or maybe 2 at the outside in League One and he will be more than ready but we might then be a Premier League club and promoting to first choice might again feel like a bit of a risk.

I keep going round in circles with young talent and I always come back to the same conclusion. We have to be braver with our young players and push them into the first team. Yet goalkeeper is always the one position that is tougher than than the rest.