[SmethDan]

Thing is the Wolves owners had/have a level of interest in their asset. Lai never has.

Wolves also had a chap with half of the Portuguese league on his books and he was seemingly very interested in relocating quite a few of them to Wolverhampton.

[gazberg]

Wolves also had a chap with half of the Portuguese league on his books and he was seemingly very interested in relocating quite a few of them to Wolverhampton.

Also true. Still doing ok without him

[BAGGIE5]

What happened to that Striker we signed from china. Wasnt Lai meant to pay the money back for this if it didnt come off? I’m sure this signing was done under a cloud.

[ex coseley kid]

The only thing I know for sure about this geezer is his given name doesn't need translating into English.

Right now I'd actually take administration if it meant getting him out of our club. He's killed us.

[overseas baggie]

What happened to that Striker we signed from china. Wasnt Lai meant to pay the money back for this if it didnt come off? I’m sure this signing was done under a cloud.

The club never laid out any money on that player.  It was funded directly by Lai apparently.   Obviously he must have still had some money left at that time!

[baggiejohn]

For any forum members who have a knowledge of China.

How much of an influence would the Chinese authorities have on Lai's abilities to finance WBAFC, including taking out & paying back loans?

Genuine question, because I don't know.

[sing on our own]

The club never laid out any money on that player.  It was funded directly by Lai apparently.   Obviously he must have still had some money left at that time!

That was the official line at the time but it’s been revealed recently that the club did pay the fee not Lai personally. 7 million for someone who wouldn’t get in Quarry Bank Socials team.

[NJS]

Do we still own this player then?

[overseas baggie]

That was the official line at the time but it’s been revealed recently that the club did pay the fee not Lai personally. 7 million for someone who wouldn’t get in Quarry Bank Socials team.

Where was that revealed please? I don’t recall seeing it

[overseas baggie]

For any forum members who have a knowledge of China.

How much of an influence would the Chinese authorities have on Lai's abilities to finance WBAFC, including taking out & paying back loans?

Genuine question, because I don't know.

None, because Lai is neither the owner or the borrower.  Yunyai with its 1000+ investors is the owner, and Wisdom Smart is the borrower.  Wisdom Smart is a HK company, not a Chinese company, and Lai is not a director or shareholder of Wisdom Smart, or of the Chinese company which owns 49% of it.

[overseas baggie]

Do we still own this player then?

No.  And he never met the UK’s work permit requirements.

[skyclad99]

Where was that revealed please? I don’t recall seeing it

I don’t remember that either, I thought the player was a vanity project wholly funded by Lai which is why we were not bothered

[overseas baggie]

I don’t remember that either, I thought the player was a vanity project wholly funded by Lai which is why we were not bothered

That’s certainly my understanding too.

[baggiejohn]

I don’t remember that either, I thought the player was a vanity project wholly funded by Lai which is why we were not bothered

I think I can remember Lepkowski querying the claim that Lai had provided the funds for the player personally.

[NJS]

For any forum members who have a knowledge of China.

How much of an influence would the Chinese authorities have on Lai's abilities to finance WBAFC, including taking out & paying back loans?

Genuine question, because I don't know.

Have conducted a web search, I couldn't find anything to contradict that the restrictions on overseas spending imposed by the CCP regarding Soccer investment are still in force.

Football or Soccer as the rest of the world has it, has been a major embarrassment for President Xi.  Following the haughty predictions for the national team when he got the ball (ahem) rolling in 2015, has come the flop that is always possible with such hubris.  China FC is no further up the world rankings than when he made hi boasts back in 2015.

You can understand why he doesn't want to hear anyone or any media outlets talking about that particular subject.

Xi's method of handling dissenters or anyone who fails or upsets him is to employ his special anti-graft  regulators to attaint them for corruption.  So the president of the national soccer federation, a national coach and an education ministry official who over-promised on soccer in schools are among those who have been arrested.

Xi doesn't want to hear about football so it's not surprising that Mr Guochuan is keeping his head down on that front especially as the real estate boom and bust is another potential embarassment. 

In 2010 there were 20 European clubs owned by Chinese investors.  In 2020 there were 10.

Selling at a big loss would be a humiliation for Lai Guochuan.
 Maybe a bigger humiliation would be just the threat of an indictment against him in the UK. 
Maybe a Gulf state will be tempted.

[overseas baggie]

Have conducted a web search, I couldn't find anything to contradict that the restrictions on overseas spending imposed by the CCP regarding Soccer investment are still in force.

Football or Soccer as the rest of the world has it, has been a major embarrassment for President Xi.  Following the haughty predictions for the national team when he got the ball (ahem) rolling in 2015, has come the flop that is always possible with such hubris.  China FC is no further up the world rankings than when he made hi boasts back in 2015.

You can understand why he doesn't want to hear anyone or any media outlets talking about that particular subject.

Xi's method of handling dissenters or anyone who fails or upsets him is to employ his special anti-graft  regulators to attaint them for corruption.  So the president of the national soccer federation, a national coach and an education ministry official who over-promised on soccer in schools are among those who have been arrested.

Xi doesn't want to hear about football so it's not surprising that Mr Guochuan is keeping his head down on that front especially as the real estate boom and bust is another potential embarassment. 

In 2010 there were 20 European clubs owned by Chinese investors.  In 2020 there were 10.

Selling at a big loss would be a humiliation for Lai Guochuan.
 Maybe a bigger humiliation would be just the threat of an indictment against him in the UK. 
Maybe a Gulf state will be tempted.

What would any “indictment” be for?  There’s no evidence of any criminal activity as far as I am aware, just breach of fiduciary by Ken, a UK resident, which is a civil matter, not criminal.

[NJS]

I agree I was racking my brains for a word here.  How about Embezzlement?

"Embezzlement is a type of financial fraud where someone takes money or assets that were entrusted to them and uses them for a different purpose than for what they were intended."

It was a long post.  Can't get it all right.

[overseas baggie]

Embezzlement?

"Embezzlement is a type of financial fraud where someone takes money or assets that were entrusted to them and uses them for a different purpose than for what they were intended."

What has “he” taken?  The director of Group made a loan to a company. The director sanctioned that loan (breach of fiduciary duty by him), not Lai.  The loan could not be made by anybody other than the board of Group - which is Ken alone.

I think you need to be very careful indeed suggesting “embezzlement”. 

[alex1]

I don’t remember that either, I thought the player was a vanity project wholly funded by Lai which is why we were not bothered

I seem to recall this Chinese player being lent to a German club, Werder Bremen I think, but he was out the door there quicker than Ollie Burke.  Maybe Lai thought a high profile Chinese player in Europe was good for his business. Fair to say he wasn't high profile though.

[NJS]

I agree I was racking my brains for a word here.  How about Embezzlement?

"Embezzlement is a type of financial fraud where someone takes money or assets that were entrusted to them and uses them for a different purpose than for what they were intended."

It was a long post.  Can't get it all right.

What has “he” taken?  The director of Group made a loan to a company. The director sanctioned that loan (breach of fiduciary duty by him), not Lai.  The loan could not be made by anybody other than the board of Group - which is Ken alone.

I think you need to be very careful indeed suggesting “embezzlement”.

I didn't suggest.  I asked.  You answered - thanks.

[smethwickw]

I seem to recall this Chinese player being lent to a German club, Werder Bremen I think, but he was out the door there quicker than Ollie Burke.  Maybe Lai thought a high profile Chinese player in Europe was good for his business. Fair to say he wasn't high profile though.

Zhang Yuning. Looks like the kind of goalscorer we need at the moment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Yuning_(footballer,_born_1997)

[skyclad99]

I agree I was racking my brains for a word here.  How about Embezzlement?

"Embezzlement is a type of financial fraud where someone takes money or assets that were entrusted to them and uses them for a different purpose than for what they were intended."

It was a long post.  Can't get it all right.

The problem is that Lai has removed money from the club ‘legally’, insofar that it has been disclosed, we all know about it, and he has promised to pay it back. The fact that he has not does not put it in the criminal arena. At best he can be considered for some civil offence under company law for failing to pay it back. That is likely to involve a financial penalty and not much else.
That for me is why the Pereira funds question is in the S4A document. If it can subsequently be proven that money has gone missing in some shady deal then he has problems.

At the bottom of all this I just hope that we are all square with HMRC

[SmethDan]

The club never laid out any money on that player.  It was funded directly by Lai apparently.   Obviously he must have still had some money left at that time!

I always thought that was where the 'Palm Training Ground' sponsorship money went. Not ITK at all, just seemed the most likely way of injecting short term cash.

[Ronnie Allen]

For any forum members who have a knowledge of China.

How much of an influence would the Chinese authorities have on Lai's abilities to finance WBAFC, including taking out & paying back loans?

Genuine question, because I don't know.

I don’t have a knowledge of China, but I’m interested in what’s happening with Lai and co. I found this which might be interesting and which largely confirms what I thought was happening.
https://urbanpitch.com/why-chinese-money-is-drying-up-in-the-british-game/ One aspect of what’s happening I hadn’t factored in was that Chinese investors were using the acquisition of European football clubs as a way of laundering money out of China. You buy a club, wait a few years, then sell it, even at a loss, and the money finds its way into a no questions asked bank somewhere on the planet and hey presto there’s your nest egg in case China becomes a bit too restrictive.

What’s clear is that there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that we’ll see any money coming into the club from the owners. They’re acting like textbook private equity owners trying to gouge as much money out of the club as they can. The £20m loan just reinforces that opinion. I’m not optimistic for the near and medium term.

[gazberg]

Joe Chapman
@ChapmanJ92
🚨 Breaking: S4A confirm that Ken has not answered any questions before the set deadline. They are now looking to take ‘all legal and regulatory action necessary to protect the future of the club and prevent further use of the club’s money’. #wba
 
Statement - live soon - adds that S4A have been ‘misled’ on three occasions previously re the club’s money. Also disappointed by the lack of intervention from EFL and they support the idea of a football regulator. They have cast doubt over #wba ability to replace Ron Gourlay.