[gazberg]

Lai's wealth is not important really as he said from day 1 it would be run in the same self-sustaining manner as Peace had run it. That was his first lie.

[BaggieBirdRus]

When does ‘early in the New Year’ finish?! 

[liverbaggie]

Perhaps he's taking money out of our club because he can
Maybe he cant take any out of whatever businesses he is supposed to own, because they may be in debt ant the money is for either propping up these businesses or for ferreting away for himself before the balloon goes up, which i suspect is only at roof level atm

[BalisPen]

Lai's wealth is not important really as he said from day 1 it would be run in the same self-sustaining manner as Peace had run it. That was his first lie.

His first Lai, surely.

Lots of lais, tbh. He's gone from having so much money, that he was "speculating" £7m on Zhang to now borrowing from us.

So his wealth, if he had any, has gone and we are really screwed if he's only condition on the sale of the club is that he wants his money back (reported on wba news).

It's like him buying a golf club and smashing the hell out of it and then going to the shop 7 years later, saying here's my receipt and saying I want my money back.

You aren't going to get it back you fool.

Even if were promoted I don't believe even with a double the size of Bournemouth's fan base, he would get what their owner got.

Regarding the the fan base, for those that believe the scumbag was right not building a new Halfords, when we had the prem money, the recent attendances, in an unprecedented cost of living crisis, shows how we have the fans to get over 30,000 if we had owners, he just didn't take from, let alone throw hundreds of millions at us like our neighbours.

Our owners have held us back, with "mid championship club" statements being made to so we feel grateful for his stewardship of the club, whilst ignoring our great history and our position in football over time, which is mid premier league.

[liverbaggie]

I do agree with you regarding " mid table championship club" that statement from Peace is akin to Gerald Ratner former owner of H Samuels saying that the jewelry that his company sold "was total rubbish"
In a top position in a company watch your mouth because words are important and people remember them

[overseas baggie]

I do agree with you regarding " mid table championship club" that statement from Peace is akin to Gerald Ratner former owner of H Samuels saying that the jewelry that his company sold "was total rubbish"
In a top position in a company watch your mouth because words are important and people remember them

I think that what Peace was saying was that without further investment - which he was in no position to provide - the club would be a mid-Championship club.  In truth that’s probably right - as indeed it probably is for around 15-20 clubs.   It costs a lot of money to stay in the Premier League even if it’s possible to get up without it.

[tegga]

When does ‘early in the New Year’ finish?! 

If Lai is talking about the Chinese New Year, it don't start till 22nd Jan.

Year of the rabbit.

[BalisPen]

I think that what Peace was saying was that without further investment - which he was in no position to provide - the club would be a mid-Championship club.  In truth that’s probably right - as indeed it probably is for around 15-20 clubs.   It costs a lot of money to stay in the Premier League even if it’s possible to get up without it.

Then why did he sell to someone who said it was "business as usual" then?

If we are going to guess what he meant, let's look at what the person he sold us to said as well.

You don't need vast amounts of money to stay in the prem as, we did it for a number of year without it and paid Peace £1m a year and give him a loan to buy up more shares, which he had no intention of paying.

It takes a plan (Brentford) and somebody who actually cares about the club rather than their cash laden exit plan.

If you reply, please try to curb the patronising tone, like in last week's exchange where you felt it necessary to explain to me the difference between the burden of proof for civil and criminal law.

[overseas baggie]

Then why did he sell to someone who said it was "business as usual" then?

If we are going to guess what he meant, let's look at what the person he sold us to said as well.

You don't need vast amounts of money to stay in the prem as, we did it for a number of year without it and paid Peace £1m a year and give him a loan to buy up more shares, which he had no intention of paying.

It takes a plan (Brentford) and somebody who actually cares about the club rather than their cash laden exit plan.

If you reply, please try to curb the patronising tone, like in last week's exchange where you felt it necessary to explain to me the difference between the burden of proof for civil and criminal law.

Ok - I’ll try not to “patronise”….

Peace saying what he believes is necessary to avoid being a mid-Championship club is a separate issue from him selling to somebody offering him probably 30-40% more than it was worth.  I doubt there’s many people out there who would turn down such a premium, no matter what they may have said previously.  We can of course criticise him for that, and perhaps rightly so, but it’s a different issue.

Big sums ARE required to stay up for any length of time.  Brentford look very likely to get a 3rd season and it’s fantastic to see, but it doesn’t guarantee a 4th. The law of the jungle always catches us with smaller clubs in the Premiership. Their best players or an over-achieving manager will inevitably get picked off, but Brentford and Brighton are certainly showing the “old guard” what’s needed re talent ID and recruitment.  I love it, and right now they are where we were under Clarke/Hodgson.  Maybe it’s the start of a new era where smaller clubs CAN compete, but the bigger clubs will just keep spending even more. 

I agree that both of their owners put the club first, but there’s one crucial difference between them and Peace.  Tony Bloom was already extremely wealthy and had already lent Brighton £200m.  Matthew Benham likewise but lower values.  Peace on the other hand was not a separately wealthy man.  In fact he’s about the only person I know who made his first fortune from owning a club, so he never had money to put into the club because it was all tied up in “paper” until he sold.

I would have actually preferred Peace to have stayed involved and found an investment partner to put in funding that he couldn’t.  A bit like the chap who has bought a 30% stake at West Ham and lent them some money (which they’ve wasted!).  But I think any prospects of that went out of the window when Lai threw a ridiculous sum of money at him that he probably couldn’t believe.

[BalisPen]

Ok - I’ll try not to “patronise”….

Peace saying what he believes is necessary to avoid being a mid-Championship club is a separate issue from him selling to somebody offering him probably 30-40% more than it was worth.  I doubt there’s many people out there who would turn down such a premium, no matter what they may have said previously.  We can of course criticise him for that, and perhaps rightly so, but it’s a different issue.

Big sums ARE required to stay up for any length of time.  Brentford look very likely to get a 3rd season and it’s fantastic to see, but it doesn’t guarantee a 4th. The law of the jungle always catches us with smaller clubs in the Premiership. Their best players or an over-achieving manager will inevitably get picked off, but Brentford and Brighton are certainly showing the “old guard” what’s needed re talent ID and recruitment.  I love it, and right now they are where we were under Clarke/Hodgson.  Maybe it’s the start of a new era where smaller clubs CAN compete, but the bigger clubs will just keep spending even more. 

I agree that both of their owners put the club first, but there’s one crucial difference between them and Peace.  Tony Bloom was already extremely wealthy and had already lent Brighton £200m.  Matthew Benham likewise but lower values.  Peace on the other hand was not a separately wealthy man.  In fact he’s about the only person I know who made his first fortune from owning a club, so he never had money to put into the club because it was all tied up in “paper” until he sold.

I would have actually preferred Peace to have stayed involved and found an investment partner to put in funding that he couldn’t.  A bit like the chap who has bought a 30% stake at West Ham and lent them some money (which they’ve wasted!).  But I think any prospects of that went out of the window when Lai threw a ridiculous sum of money at him that he probably couldn’t believe.

I totally disagree, we stayed up for 8 years with all our record signings basically failing, because we made some bad recruitment decisions and we didn't generate anything significant regarding player sales apart from berahino's £12m. Good managers and some very good cheap recruitment kept us up using only money generated from being in the prem, and no investment from the Jersey baldy boy, so a lot of money wasn't needed then or now.

We said no to a £5m loan fee for Rom and then he went for £28m to Everton on a permanent deal and then sold to Manchester United for about £70m.

No risk was taken or owner investment given by us in trying to get Rom and we would never have spent £28m on him, yet we stayed up on good frees and low priced foreign players.

Only when we started making stupid signings on loan and permanently on and bad managers did we go down.

The actions of Forest this season and Fulham a few seasons (spending £30m on Seri etc, etc) shows lots of money guarantee's you nothing.

A good owner with a plan, and a good  manager and recruitment can stay in the prem for very long periods.

The big 6 clubs spend "lots" to win the league and champions league, etc, etc.

However, anything can happen to the other 14 clubs in the prem regarding relegation in most seasons, as West Ham and Everton are showing now having spent vast sums, and spending lots of money (badly)  hasn't helped them avoid being relegation candidates.

There are a lot of Americans buying into prem clubs, who aren't fools like Lai, and know that a well run club doesn't need lots of money to be spent, it just needs good management and recruitment and the money generated lets them make a profit.

So imo relegation can happen to most teams in any season and spending lots isn't necessary to avoid it though  for the aforementioned reasons.

[skyclad99]

I totally disagree, we stayed up for 8 years with all our record signings basically failing, because we made some bad recruitment decisions and we didn't generate anything significant regarding player sales apart from berahino's £12m. Good managers and some very good cheap recruitment kept us up using only money generated from being in the prem, and no investment from the Jersey baldy boy, so a lot of money wasn't needed then or now.

We said no to a £5m loan fee for Rom and then he went for £28m to Everton on a permanent deal and then sold to Manchester United for about £70m.

No risk was taken or owner investment given by us in trying to get Rom and we would never have spent £28m on him, yet we stayed up on good frees and low priced foreign players.

Only when we started making stupid signings on loan and permanently on and bad managers did we go down.

The actions of Forest this season and Fulham a few seasons (spending £30m on Seri etc, etc) shows lots of money guarantee's you nothing.

A good owner with a plan, and a good  manager and recruitment can stay in the prem for very long periods.

The big 6 clubs spend "lots" to win the league and champions league, etc, etc.

However, anything can happen to the other 14 clubs in the prem regarding relegation in most seasons, as West Ham and Everton are showing now having spent vast sums, and spending lots of money (badly)  hasn't helped them avoid being relegation candidates.

There are a lot of Americans buying into prem clubs, who aren't fools like Lai, and know that a well run club doesn't need lots of money to be spent, it just needs good management and recruitment and the money generated lets them make a profit.

So imo relegation can happen to most teams in any season and spending lots isn't necessary to avoid it though  for the aforementioned reasons.

Not sure where you got your information regarding Lukaku, but as the late Queen said, ‘recollections may vary’.

We never said no to Lukaku, we loaned him from Chelsea and he became an instant hit,  we arranged a further loan for him the following season and on transfer deadline line the club even produced the news release etc, however Everton got him at the 11th hour and we ended up with ‘sick note’ Anichebe from them. The following season Everton bought him from Chelsea.

I remember that day well as I was gutted when I heard the news.

[overseas baggie]

I totally disagree, we stayed up for 8 years with all our record signings basically failing, because we made some bad recruitment decisions and we didn't generate anything significant regarding player sales apart from berahino's £12m. Good managers and some very good cheap recruitment kept us up using only money generated from being in the prem, and no investment from the Jersey baldy boy, so a lot of money wasn't needed then or now.

We said no to a £5m loan fee for Rom and then he went for £28m to Everton on a permanent deal and then sold to Manchester United for about £70m.

No risk was taken or owner investment given by us in trying to get Rom and we would never have spent £28m on him, yet we stayed up on good frees and low priced foreign players.

Only when we started making stupid signings on loan and permanently on and bad managers did we go down.

The actions of Forest this season and Fulham a few seasons (spending £30m on Seri etc, etc) shows lots of money guarantee's you nothing.

A good owner with a plan, and a good  manager and recruitment can stay in the prem for very long periods.

The big 6 clubs spend "lots" to win the league and champions league, etc, etc.

However, anything can happen to the other 14 clubs in the prem regarding relegation in most seasons, as West Ham and Everton are showing now having spent vast sums, and spending lots of money (badly)  hasn't helped them avoid being relegation candidates.

There are a lot of Americans buying into prem clubs, who aren't fools like Lai, and know that a well run club doesn't need lots of money to be spent, it just needs good management and recruitment and the money generated lets them make a profit.

So imo relegation can happen to most teams in any season and spending lots isn't necessary to avoid it though  for the aforementioned reasons.

You do make several valid points there.  We have certainly done far better with cheap signings and/or loans than when we’ve spent big money.

You are correct that even spending big money doesn’t guarantee survival, although spending very little money usually accelerates a return to the Championship within one or two seasons for newly promoted sides.

At least a dozen Premier League clubs each season are very realistically exposed to relegation if they have a poor 3-month run.  Even teams currently on 27/28 points could easily be near the trapdoor in May.

[BalisPen]

Not sure where you got your information regarding Lukaku, but as the late Queen said, ‘recollections may vary’.

We never said no to Lukaku, we loaned him from Chelsea and he became an instant hit,  we arranged a further loan for him the following season and on transfer deadline line the club even produced the news release etc, however Everton got him at the 11th hour and we ended up with ‘sick note’ Anichebe from them. The following season Everton bought him from Chelsea.

I remember that day well as I was gutted when I heard the news.

Have another read of what I wrote and you'll see we said no to paying the £5m loan fee Everton agreed to pay, and I didn't say we didn't try to get him.

We all remember that day clearly with the sky sports reporter stating he was coming back to us until Everton offered Chelsea a £5m loan fee which we didn't match.

[Maresca Was A Baggie]

If we manage to get promoted what are we likely to be worth to a buyer? I know it won't be £200m. And has Lai actually stated he wants his money back in full, or is this just hearsay?

[gazberg]

If we manage to get promoted what are we likely to be worth to a buyer? I know it won't be £200m. And has Lai actually stated he wants his money back in full, or is this just hearsay?

When we went up last time under Bilic think he was offered in region of 120-130m for his 88% and he said no if i recall.

[NJS]

Maybe we have more chance of getting rid of Lai if we don't go up.  At some point, he must crystallise his losses before they become worse..

[gazberg]

Fair play to this mascot tonight 

[ex coseley kid]

That pic is just brilliant. Good kid!

[BalisPen]

Fair play to this mascot tonight 

That kid has done more in an Albion shirt in a few minutes than ken sopoor  has done in 4 years.

[Baggies]

Maybe we have more chance of getting rid of Lai if we don't go up.  At some point, he must crystallise his losses before they become worse..

I'm not convinced of that at all. It's more likely the club will end up battling relegation to league 1, teeter on the edge of administration or end up under some transfer embargo like half the division seems to have been under post CoVID. Clubs with the same or even arguably more appeal like Derby, Blues, Sheff Wednesday, Cardiff, Charlton and even Blackburn have all struggled to sell and have had ownerships bumble along for years, ruining their potential to compete.

The only way staying down = Lai going, from what I can see is if we end up in administration and he is forced to sell that way.

Our beat bet is getting back to the Premier league, maybe staying up somehow and then Lai running off with around £120m-£130m.

[skyclad99]

Have another read of what I wrote and you'll see we said no to paying the £5m loan fee Everton agreed to pay, and I didn't say we didn't try to get him.

We all remember that day clearly with the sky sports reporter stating he was coming back to us until Everton offered Chelsea a £5m loan fee which we didn't match.

I get your point Balispen and your post makes a few valid points and observations, but I don't think many of us saw the 'none signing' of Lukaku as a significant point in our development. We were lucky to see him at our club and it would have been wonderful to see him back, but we were gazumped at the 11th hour by Everton. If you look at this thread at the time, the loan fee that Everton paid was said to be £8m, not £5m. We would have been stupid to agree to pay that for a loan player that we would have absolutely no chance of signing on a permanent deal, and many posters on here at the time thought the same.

If the board said no to paying that fee then for me that was the correct decision given who we are and where we were at the time. Its very easy to spend someone else's money.

[ABaggie]

Fair play to this mascot tonight 

The kid needs to look behind for the answer

[skyclad99]

I'm glad you read my original post again.

Yes, the board were definitely correct in saying no to a 20 year old who had just scored 16 in the prem, and instead wasting £5m on injury prone sick vic. Instead of sanctioning the Rom deal it was correct for us, that the "board" sanctioned scumbag Peace's loan to himself of £4m and the £1m a year he paid himself as well. It was also,definitely correct that the "board" said yes to buying t urd after t urd like unproven in the prem, Ideye Brown, on whom we lost £4m after just one season with us.

Furthermore, please tell me where we were, as you say, and at what stage would we need to be at for you deem a decision by the board to make that Lukaku signing?

As I remember it, we had finished in our highest position in over 30 years and been in the prem a few years. The money gained for just finishing 8th would have paid the loan fee on its own. The loan had an option to buy and the loan fee (£5m) was to be taken off the sale price (£28m) if the option to buy was activated, as I recall.

Also, if it's someone else's money why do you post on threads about money like this Lai one, as according to you that's his money isn't it?

I didn't.

In 2012/13 we did indeed finish 8th under Steve Clarke and with Lukaku in the side. Once Everton came in I am not sure we stood a chance of signing him for the following season, not only due to the fee but the fact that Everton could offer him European football.

With regard to where we needed to be, we needed to be in Everton's position. They had plenty of money and ambition. They had European ambitions and top 6 finishes, whereas we were happy to tread water and survive.  In 2012/13 they spent £17m, whereas we spent £3.5m (our net spend was actually £0.00). Everton's spending since has always increased, and they are now regularly spending £110m + per season [gross]. We never even came close to anything that they spent. So at the time, we were never going to break our transfer record by paying £5 or £8m on a loan with no intention to buy. Furthermore, Peace was never going to spend £20m+ on a player. I agree with you that what happened after was disastrous, both with the subsequent purchases and poor managerial appointments. A more ambitious chairman with the club at heart would have secured the services of Lukaku and built a team around him, but as we now know Peace had his own agenda.

I don't actually understand your last sentence. How many times have you seen posts on here like 'we need to buy a centre forward, we need two new midfielders, we need six new players' etc, all valid points but unrealistic given our financial dilemma. I am not sure how my comments regarding Lai's financial shenanigans relate to this.

   

[halifax_baggie]

The club was not a turkey when it was sold, however the club management has been responsible for our demise most importantly the buying of players, overpriced, poor quality, long and expensive player contacts and poor team managers

Of course Lai is the overseer of this and has to take ultimate responsibility

[BalisPen]

I didn't.

In 2012/13 we did indeed finish 8th under Steve Clarke and with Lukaku in the side. Once Everton came in I am not sure we stood a chance of signing him for the following season, not only due to the fee but the fact that Everton could offer him European football.

With regard to where we needed to be, we needed to be in Everton's position. They had plenty of money and ambition. They had European ambitions and top 6 finishes, whereas we were happy to tread water and survive.  In 2012/13 they spent £17m, whereas we spent £3.5m (our net spend was actually £0.00). Everton's spending since has always increased, and they are now regularly spending £110m + per season [gross]. We never even came close to anything that they spent. So at the time, we were never going to break our transfer record by paying £5 or £8m on a loan with no intention to buy. Furthermore, Peace was never going to spend £20m+ on a player. I agree with you that what happened after was disastrous, both with the subsequent purchases and poor managerial appointments. A more ambitious chairman with the club at heart would have secured the services of Lukaku and built a team around him, but as we now know Peace had his own agenda.

I don't actually understand your last sentence. How many times have you seen posts on here like 'we need to buy a centre forward, we need two new midfielders, we need six new players' etc, all valid points but unrealistic given our financial dilemma. I am not sure how my comments regarding Lai's financial shenanigans relate to this.

 

Maybe you should have read it properly the first time then, as then you wouldn't have wasted your time  mentioning  the Queen and how memories vary or whatever it was, when clearly I had said we had tried to sign Rom.

Treading water?

OK, if you say so.

Personally, I would have said we were primed to kick, if we had the board led by baldy wasn't so pathetic at most things, including recruitment.

Rom to sick vic was like going from the sublime to the ridiculous.

Regarding the it's easy spending other people's you said, mor me, I don't have problem with giving their opinion who they think needs signing.

You, still haven't answered the question though, if not then, when would be the right time in your eyes to invest in a 20 year old striker who had just scored 16 in his first season in the prem and stop buying terrible unproven players like Brown or sick nobodies like sick vic?