[baggie82]

I'm intrigued now Zippy.

Which fans are "having an opinion on stuff they don't understand" .

Maybe you didn't intend it this way, but it comes across very heavily that you don't think fans should have too many opinions about the financial shenanigans at the club because it "isn't their money".

I think the bigger problem is that we just do not know what the owner is up to, good or bad given the very limited and retrospective financial reporting requirements. We only get a glimpse behind the curtain - but what we have been shown is not pretty. I understand why fans would want to protest about this loan and also why fans would also consider protests counter-productive at this stage, given the momentum the team has created on the pitch - both reasonable views. My general view is that the lights on the mobile phone was the perfect balance of protest whilst also cheering the team on. Whereas pitchforks outside the Halfords lane may get a bit too ugly.

[Baggies]

I don't think it is reasonable to be critical of protests at this point. The clubs currently owed about £10m from successive owners taking money out of the club for non footballing reasons and is now having to take out a high risk £20m loan (plus high interest) to maintain the current level of spending.

If you don't endorse protests now, you will never endorse a protest.

[kirk]

There are, and yes, but we don’t know details until the audited accounts are published (must be within 9 months after the year end which can therefore be up to 21 months after a dodgy transaction took place).  Directors are supposed to act solely in the interests of the company and may therefore only become accountable once the accounts are published and shareholders get to know about what has happened).

For misconduct fraud scams etc you can complain before audited accounts online ‘ Please complain about a company online at www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company.‘ there are so much going on at WBA and HMRC seem keen to stop football clubs acting improper.. has any accountant fans submitted their concerns ? Loans, transfers etc

[zippyandbungle]

I'm intrigued now Zippy.

Which fans are "having an opinion on stuff they don't understand" .

Maybe you didn't intend it this way, but it comes across very heavily that you don't think fans should have too many opinions about the financial shenanigans at the club because it "isn't their money".

The back and forth arguments on this very forum have proven that there are folk that don’t know, understand or even care to try to understand financial business and it’s compliance /procedures.

Your second point is correct, whilst aware that football is very emotive, a business is a business and “our club” doesn’t actually belong to us and I doubt it ever will.so yes I am of the belief that someone who invests financially does have a right to run the business how 5hey wish as long as it’s within the legal rules of the country 9f that business.
This doesn’t mean that I blindly support any board or chairman, just that I don’t Intend to voice my dissatisfaction especially at a time when it really cannot be seen as a positive (IMO) and I don’t understand 5he sheep/pack mentality of others that wish to, without understanding the rationale.

[overseas baggie]

For misconduct fraud scams etc you can complain before audited accounts online ‘ Please complain about a company online at www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company.‘ there are so much going on at WBA and HMRC seem keen to stop football clubs acting improper.. has any accountant fans submitted their concerns ? Loans, transfers etc

None of those categories would fit what’s happening at the club.

[zippyandbungle]

I don't think it is reasonable to be critical of protests at this point. The clubs currently owed about £10m from successive owners taking money out of the club for non footballing reasons and is now having to take out a high risk £20m loan (plus high interest) to maintain the current level of spending.

If you don't endorse protests now, you will never endorse a protest.

I don’t think it’s reasonable to protest at this point.
It’s all about opinions
How many of those that protest do you believe actually know the full reason behind the protest including the monetary value and personnel involved?

[Baggies]

The sheep /pack mentality? Is that how you see the protestors?

I could get into a debate, but it's clear you have a subservient mind set when it comes to the football club

Personally, I feel the fans prepared to protest against what is now going on at the club, raising the profile and awareness of the campaign to the point the Sunday times sports editor is covering it on an almost weekly basis are the lifeblood of this football club.

You see it as a business. I and many others know it is more than that.

[kirk]

None of those categories would fit what’s happening at the club.

Really? The pereira and hegazzi transfer both seem strange when it comes to money into the club, the possibility of borrowing off the club to purchase more shares etc

[zippyandbungle]

The sheep /pack mentality? Is that how you see the protestors?

I could get into a debate, but it's clear you have a subservient mind set when it comes to the football club

Personally, I feel the fans prepared to protest against what is now going on at the club, raising the profile and awareness of the campaign to the point the Sunday times sports editor is covering it on an almost weekly basis are the lifeblood of this football club.

You see it as a business. I and many others know it is more than that.

Yes sheep pack mentality….no I never said I see ALL protesters in that way….my point is there are/will be some chanting and shouting that have absolutely no idea…or are you telling me that you think everyone that sings we want our club back as actually looked at the finances in detail..

I see the club as a club and a business, they have to work in tandem or they just don’t work.
You say subservient I’d say realistic.

[overseas baggie]

Really? The pereira and hegazzi transfer both seem strange when it comes to money into the club, the possibility of borrowing off the club to purchase more shares etc

There is zero evidence (currently) re Pereira or Hegazi, just mere speculation.

Who would be complainant re the loans?  The money is owed to the club by non-UK companies. Who would be complaining against the UK company?  Those provisions are clearly aimed at companies in the retail world.

[BalisPen]

I never said that Carlos had arranged a 20 million loan did I , nor did I say that gourlay and Lai were on the training pitch ?, but if it makes you happy .
There is no snipping at the fan base, what I object to is people having an opinion on stuff they don’t understand ….so if they want to chant about” where their money has gone”, maybe they should first invest so it actually is “their money” and then maybe get their heads around how a business works …

It’s quite clear we won’t agree , my standpoint is that the team and the manager appear to be getting something going nicely and I don’t want that disrupted by off field issues, and certainly don’t feel that I’ll informed protests based on what a friend of a friend thinks about how our clubs finances are run….are going to be productive .
I don’t hate Lai (I have never met him or done business with him ) I do understand that people care about West Bromwich Albion football club, but in everything I try to stand back and ask why ..
Why would Lai wish to create issues he doesn’t need and issues that will obviously detrimentally impact his investment ….to do so wouldn’t make sense .

Do you go to games and hear this chant?

Because, if you had you'd know it is "where's the money gone"  as in the club's money not "their" personal money.

No one is saying Lai has taken our money, but the money of the club.

Despite this trying running a club without us fans putting in their hard earnt money, some on here put in thousands per season.

You should never bite the hand that feeds you.

[ex coseley kid]

You see it as a business. I and many others know it is more than that.

THAT. Absolutely.

Despite this trying running a club without us fans putting in their hard earnt money, some on here put in thousands per season.

You should never bite the hand that feeds you.

And that too.

However I also agree this shouldn't be on CC's thread....

[kirk]

There is zero evidence (currently) re Pereira or Hegazi, just mere speculation.

Who would be complainant re the loans?  The money is owed to the club by non-UK companies. Who would be complaining against the UK company?  Those provisions are clearly aimed at companies in the retail world.

The JP loan may not hence the internal investigation and the money being moved to non uk companies (which no one knows which companies) could fall under money laundering… as for the transfers speculation ? How many players with pereira ability go for that much? Remind me again how many FDs and auditors have resigned ?

[overseas baggie]

The JP loan may not hence the internal investigation and the money being moved to non uk companies (which no one knows which companies) could fall under money laundering… as for the transfers speculation ? How many players with pereira ability go for that much? Remind me again how many FDs and auditors have resigned ?

I totally agree with all you are saying there, but none of it falls within the provisions of the link you provided.

[LiamTheBaggie]

People talk about fans not investing..

Those that buy season tickets, merchandise, match tickets - that’s investing into a strong emotional attachment to so many. An institution perhaps. Who is anyone to criticise that?

Those bazzas from Tipton contribute nigh on £8m towards the club per season.

Take that away and the club is stuffed.

So yes, we are entitled to go out there and moan and sing to our hearts content at those who treat this club with contempt.

[zippyandbungle]

People talk about fans not investing..

Those that buy season tickets, merchandise, match tickets - that’s investing into a strong emotional attachment to so many. An institution perhaps. Who is anyone to criticise that?

Those bazzas from Tipton contribute nigh on £8m towards the club per season.

Take that away and the club is stuffed.

So yes, we are entitled to go out there and moan and sing to our hearts content at those who treat this club with contempt.

I have a season ticket, 4 in fact and been to most of the away games .
This season have purchased 6 shirts various other bits .
I still don’t count that has a serious investment in terms of enough to have a voice on how the clubs finances are run ….and I never criticised anybody that did buy season tickets and memorabilia did I , but I assume by your “Bazza” you are aiming at me….so I will respond
And th bit about “Bazza” contributing 8m isn’t correct , and if taken in individual contribution , the % of share or turnover would be negligible  …..doesn’t stop anyone from caring or having an emotional tie…but doesn’t make them voices in the boardroom either .

[LiamTheBaggie]

I have a season ticket, 4 in fact and been to most of the away games .
This season have purchased 6 shirts various other bits .
I still don’t count that has a serious investment in terms of enough to have a voice on how the clubs finances are run ….and I never criticised anybody that did buy season tickets and memorabilia did I , but I assume by your “Bazza” you are aiming at me….so I will respond
And th bit about “Bazza” contributing 8m isn’t correct , and if taken in individual contribution , the % of share or turnover would be negligible  …..doesn’t stop anyone from caring or having an emotional tie…but doesn’t make them voices in the boardroom either .

Your comment was “maybe they should first invest so it is actually their money”.

My comment about bazzas investing £8m is correct based on ticket sales and merchandise.

That provides supporters of this club - no matter their level of intellect or financial capabilities - the ability to shout, scream, clap, sing, protest on matters relating to their club.

And regardless of your view on certain sections of supporters - which acrosss numerous threads you have made clear over a sustained period of time, it is unacceptable for the custodian of this club to use our clubs money to prop up his failing business - at a point when our club is failing and needs those monies.

Quite frankly, everybody should object to that.

The fact that money has not been repaid should have everyone standing outside the Halfords lane tomorrow.

[gazberg]

Looks like I've missed quite an evening. Emotions are understandably running high right now.


Action for Albion are on Talksport tomorrow 10am-1pm. Talking to Simon Jordan about what's going on here. Good stuff.

[tex]

The wisdom smart corp is about as laughable a name as you could find. I doubt " in their wisdom" they could raise money from any serious lender so WBA steps in (they were only formed in 2015). No idea what they do. Lending money to a start-up is generally not acceptable because the company has to show an ability to pay the loan off. Shambles.

[Manc Baggie]

We have an owner, who has only ever taken money from our club, has proven to be unable to pay it back & has shown to be only a passing acquaintance with the truth about when it will be paid back.
If this was the case at any other club, we would be looking at the situation & thanking our lucky stars we didn’t have such a dodgy owner. Unfortunately, we do have one of, if not the worst owner currently within UK football.
The fact that we have managed to remain a viable business, is in spite of, not because of our owner.
If this situation is not worth football fans protesting about, then I don’t know what is.

[gazberg]

With more details surrounding the loan being uploaded we can see the 20m is secured against the ground etc as we would expect but it's also secured against the club badge, trademarks etc.


Can someone with more intelligence than me explain if this is normal? Surely the ground, middlemore road land etc would cover the 20m?

[Albionic]

With more details surrounding the loan being uploaded we can see the 20m is secured against the ground etc as we would expect but it's also secured against the club badge, trademarks etc.


Can someone with more intelligence than me explain if this is normal? Surely the ground, middlemore road land etc would cover the 20m?

sounds to me like,

Dear Mr Lai
Thank you for considering our loan, to be clear and for the avoidance of doubt, if you default we take the ground, facilities and dont think you can hold us to ransom with intangibles like the Throstle, badge , keys to radiators in shower room .......... we will own it all, and by all we mean, ALL,     

Love MSD xxx

[TheBaggieMan]

Did a similar scenario to this not happen with the owner of Birmingham City a few years ago? 
I seem to remember he was of Far Eastern extraction and somehow, they (whoever ‘they’ are) managed to extricate him from ownership which is exactly what we wish do replicate.

[gazberg]

sounds to me like,

Dear Mr Lai
Thank you for considering our loan, to be clear and for the avoidance of doubt, if you default we take the ground, facilities and dont think you can hold us to ransom with intangibles like the Throstle, badge , keys to radiators in shower room .......... we will own it all, and by all we mean, ALL,     

Love MSD xxx

Reads to me like they expect him to fail, which i do too, and then they get everythingon the cheap however i know nothing about this kind of practice so will wait for a wiser head to explain!

[Albionic]

Did a similar scenario to this not happen with the owner of Birmingham City a few years ago? 
I seem to remember he was of Far Eastern extraction and somehow, they (whoever ‘they’ are) managed to extricate him from ownership which is exactly what we wish do replicate.

He got extricated into clink if I remember correctly? Carson Yeung - got 6 years for money laundering or similar