[overseas baggie]

thought board had stated that our final parachute payment was to be spread out into three years instead of two. So next season we should still be in receipt of monies, something fishy is going on if club are bleeding daily finances and could this be a breach of financial fair play?

Very good question indeed.  Very odd.  Something changed, but taking out a loan wouldn’t help with FFP as it’s the amount of spending which counts.

Did we actually receive all the Pereira money?

[baggiejohn]

Very good question indeed.  Very odd.  Something changed, but taking out a loan wouldn’t help with FFP as it’s the amount of spending which counts.

Did we actually receive all the Pereira money?

Didn't want to get into that one, it really complicates the argument. I believe there was also some doubt about payment from the Hegazi deal.
Are outstanding debts shown under the "more than one year" grouping in the accounts?

[overseas baggie]

Didn't want to get into that one, it really complicates the argument. I believe there was also some doubt about payment from the Hegazi deal.
Are outstanding debts shown under the "more than one year" grouping in the accounts?

The June 2022 audited accounts will be extremely interesting indeed

[kirk]

Are we not a limited company ? If so are there not legal rules in place and if these are being bent or ignored shouldn’t the HMRC be all over it ?

[overseas baggie]

Are we not a limited company ? If so are there not legal rules in place and if these are being bent or ignored shouldn’t the HMRC be all over it ?

There are, and yes, but we don’t know details until the audited accounts are published (must be within 9 months after the year end which can therefore be up to 21 months after a dodgy transaction took place).  Directors are supposed to act solely in the interests of the company and may therefore only become accountable once the accounts are published and shareholders get to know about what has happened).

[gazberg]

The June 2022 audited accounts will be extremely interesting indeed

Been saying it for a while now. I wonder how much more he will have taken out.

[LiamTheBaggie]

How strange that all that is good with the club is down to the new manager, and all that is bad is down to the board/chairman
So can someone enlighten me as to which fan or player it was that appointment Corberan?

All that is good with this club is down to the appointment of Corberan.

All that is bad with this club clearly lies with those in the boardroom and those anonymous people in China.

It’s not a hard concept really despite another attempt at devils advocate in what appears a hollier than thou manner.

[SmethDan]

thought board had stated that our final parachute payment was to be spread out into three years instead of two. So next season we should still be in receipt of monies, something fishy is going on if club are bleeding daily finances and could this be a breach of financial fair play?

It was confirmed in the last set of Albion Assembly minutes that this season is the last season of parachute payments. Somewhere along the line the Three Year Plan became the Two Year Plan. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when this was advised and decided upon.

[tex]

The message from the club was that they would spread the two parachute payments over three years (During SBEra). Probably not true just like the loan situation.

[tex]

I thought there was a third loan taken from the club in the last year, or did I get that wrong.

[skyclad99]

I believe the Diangana deal was a straight purchase, using most of the budget.
That was why the Grant deal had to be structured.

As other posters have said, our most valuable assets are players, we have 4 players out of contract in June 2023, if the estimated wages are accurate, it's likely we could save around £4 million by not replacing them, only Kyle Bartley is a first team regular now.
IMO, the Hawthorns or other facilities are not at risk at the moment.

I am pretty sure Sullivan wanted the cash up front as they needed it for a transfer they wanted to complete. Of course we wanted the player so did as we were told.

[skyclad99]

I thought there was a third loan taken from the club in the last year, or did I get that wrong.

There is rumour of a further £2m going out, but that will not be confirmed (or not) until the accounts are released.

[hardtobeat]

Are we not a limited company ? If so are there not legal rules in place and if these are being bent or ignored shouldn’t the HMRC be all over it ?

As long as they are getting theirs they won’t fuss about much else

[gazberg]

I've heard of robbing Peter to pay Paul but this blokes taking the mick

[zippyandbungle]

All that is good with this club is down to the appointment of Corberan.

All that is bad with this club clearly lies with those in the boardroom and those anonymous people in China.

It’s not a hard concept really despite another attempt at devils advocate in what appears a hollier than thou manner.

That’s not correct though is it ?

Firstly the bad (in most people’s eyes) aka the board……
They appointed corberan
They removed Bruce (which everyone wanted)
They appointed a young left field coach “Val” which many were championing
They backed Billic (which most were saying was Corberan ) when he wanted to chuff 16m on Karlan Grant

But so many seem oblivious to all of the above
The good
BTA ….who signed him?
Swift,Wallace,Yokuslu …who signed them?

Not too sure where you are going with the comments about devils advocate and holier than thou manner.
Most of the fan base haven’t got the first clue about business or football finance, but seem quite happy to pick and choose when it suits and chant along with ridiculous chants about “their money”
Now they seem hell bent on protesting outside the glass doors on Halfords lane……not withstanding that the bloke that they wish to protest against isn’t there, so why not create some frenzied chanting and put some women and kids off ever coming again?,
I’ve said before there is nothing wrong with people having an INFORMED OPINION but there’s not many that actually chant/protest that have any bloody idea .
Sorry if that doesn’t fit your narrative.

[Maresca Was A Baggie]

With no Parachute payment next season we are in a whole world of pain if we dont go up. We will have a huge wage bill we can't afford, a loan we have to make repayments on that we likely cant afford. All this probably leading to a player 'fire sale', with the knock on effect of a very poor squad fighting to stay in the Championship. This has all the hallmarks of League 2, and the wilderness for quite a few years, with the worse case scenario the ground is taken from us if we default on the loan. This really couldn't get much worse. Lai has gambled absolutely everything for promotion this season. It is literally sh*t or bust for the club.
And a special thanks to JP for selling us down the river.

[mateinone]

How strange that all that is good with the club is down to the new manager, and all that is bad is down to the board/chairman
So can someone enlighten me as to which fan or player it was that appointment Corberan?

All people are going to be judged on their body of work, with an obvious weighting to the present. CC can only be judged on performances since he arrived and these are brilliant, it is inarguable that he has made a huge difference in our match day results. The board and the owner have a bigger body of work to be judged on and yes the appointment of CC is a tick, but this tick (imo) is outweighed by various questionable decisions that have been made, including the current loan.

[SmethDan]

I've heard of robbing Peter to pay Paul but this blokes taking the mick

What's Mick got to do with it and is Clipboard with him? Things are worse than I thought.......

[LiamTheBaggie]

Well it is correct…

The bad elements of this football club lie with the board and the owner - who else would it lie with?

How dare Carlos Corberan orchestrate a £20m loan and use the clubs assets as collateral damage.

Tell you what, I’m glad Gourlay and Lai are on the training pitch. They’re doing a stellar job. Those pair have turned The Hawthorns into a positive environment. I look forward to chanting “stand up if you want Corberan out tomorrow”.

How dare Carlos Corberan sanction a £4.95m loan to prop up his other businesses. How dare he use such an appalling interest rate.

As for the bad - and the achievements you outline. Corberan was always a fans favourite (aside from Dyche) and you will not earlier in the thread I have provided credit for the appointment.

Your other suggestions though - removing Bruce was not a success. It was a dereliction of duty in appointing him in the first place with no thorough recruitment process. The decision to sack him came far too late. I am not celebrating the decision to sack a man who won something soft like 7 in 32.

The Val appointment wasn’t necessarily the issue - the fact we didn’t have a squad that suited his methods and proceeded to support him with additions of Hugill and Reach whilst selling off the family silver on cut prices were horrific calls. His appointment though just continues the cycle of flip flopping changing we’ve become accustomed to. From Pulis to Moore, to Shan, to Bilic, to Allardyce, to another project is Ismael, back to the dinosaurs and now another project with Carlos. Living for today, no thought for tomorrow.

As for the good - well, it’s more a small fortune than good judgement. BTA we stumbled across - despite not having an interest in him - the other was signed seemingly on the crest of a fans wave and the other were stand out performers in this division. Remind me - how’s that overhaul of the recruitment team gone? How’s that forward planning gone?

I note you cherry pick those three in particular yet ignore the two year deals for Kelly, the Phillips extension, the Button extension, Livermore, BARTLEY AND SO ON…

You’re hollier than thou attitude reeks across the forum with your continued condescending sniping at members and fan base at large which are typified by your “Bazaa from tippon” comments.

If you cannot see the issues with our poor governance then fair enough.. But supporters are equally entitled to chant where’s our money gone given the sale of Pereira and of course the £5m that is owed to us but not forthcoming.

Fair play to those supporters not willing to accept this club being ran like some 80s corner shop. If you’re happy with the way things are then great.

Personally, I’ll be joining Bazza and the other ill informed tiptoners and we’ll chant where’s the money gone Tom and we’ll continue to demonstrate frustration at how this club is being ran and I like many others will continue to push for a change of ownership in anyway that is reasonably possible.

[baggie82]

Well it is correct…

The bad elements of this football club lie with the board and the owner - who else would it lie with?

How dare Carlos Corberan orchestrate a £20m loan and use the clubs assets as collateral damage.

Tell you what, I’m glad Gourlay and Lai are on the training pitch. They’re doing a stellar job. Those pair have turned The Hawthorns into a positive environment. I look forward to chanting “stand up if you want Corberan out tomorrow”.

How dare Carlos Corberan sanction a £4.95m loan to prop up his other businesses. How dare he use such an appalling interest rate.

As for the bad - and the achievements you outline. Corberan was always a fans favourite (aside from Dyche) and you will not earlier in the thread I have provided credit for the appointment.

Your other suggestions though - removing Bruce was not a success. It was a dereliction of duty in appointing him in the first place with no thorough recruitment process. The decision to sack him came far too late. I am not celebrating the decision to sack a man who won something soft like 7 in 32.

The Val appointment wasn’t necessarily the issue - the fact we didn’t have a squad that suited his methods and proceeded to support him with additions of Hugill and Reach whilst selling off the family silver on cut prices were horrific calls. His appointment though just continues the cycle of flip flopping changing we’ve become accustomed to. From Pulis to Moore, to Shan, to Bilic, to Allardyce, to another project is Ismael, back to the dinosaurs and now another project with Carlos. Living for today, no thought for tomorrow.

As for the good - well, it’s more a small fortune than good judgement. BTA we stumbled across - despite not having an interest in him - the other was signed seemingly on the crest of a fans wave and the other were stand out performers in this division. Remind me - how’s that overhaul of the recruitment team gone? How’s that forward planning gone?

I note you cherry pick those three in particular yet ignore the two year deals for Kelly, the Phillips extension, the Button extension, Livermore, BARTLEY AND SO ON…

You’re hollier than thou attitude reeks across the forum with your continued condescending sniping at members and fan base at large which are typified by your “Bazaa from tippon” comments.

If you cannot see the issues with our poor governance then fair enough.. But supporters are equally entitled to chant where’s our money gone given the sale of Pereira and of course the £5m that is owed to us but not forthcoming.

Fair play to those supporters not willing to accept this club being ran like some 80s corner shop. If you’re happy with the way things are then great.

Personally, I’ll be joining Bazza and the other ill informed tiptoners and we’ll chant where’s the money gone Tom and we’ll continue to demonstrate frustration at how this club is being ran and I like many others will continue to push for a change of ownership in anyway that is reasonably possible.

As I see it, fans are more than entitled to protest against the owner for a) taking money out of the club and b) being less than transparent - noting how many auditors along with the finance director have resigned.

At the same time the board have made some very bad and very good decisions, over Lai's tenure - but ultimately got a lot more wrong than right. We can be very critical of lots of football decisions and still give credit where it is due to appointing Corberan.

If we are debating their track record on appointing coaches and how premiership revenue has been used then I think it is nuanced and complex subject; with differing views. Whereas, separately, the owner talking money out of the club is straight-forwardly wrong and should be condemned.

[baggie82]

With no Parachute payment next season we are in a whole world of pain if we dont go up. We will have a huge wage bill we can't afford, a loan we have to make repayments on that we likely cant afford. All this probably leading to a player 'fire sale', with the knock on effect of a very poor squad fighting to stay in the Championship. This has all the hallmarks of League 2, and the wilderness for quite a few years, with the worse case scenario the ground is taken from us if we default on the loan. This really couldn't get much worse. Lai has gambled absolutely everything for promotion this season. It is literally sh*t or bust for the club.
And a special thanks to JP for selling us down the river.

I would be surprised if the club's financial position was as dire as your prediction given we have never pushed the boat out and have always run the finances conservatively, too safety-first for my liking at times. Some of the higher earners are out of contract in the summer and this recent loan from MSD has a four year repayment term.

[zippyandbungle]

Well it is correct…

The bad elements of this football club lie with the board and the owner - who else would it lie with?

How dare Carlos Corberan orchestrate a £20m loan and use the clubs assets as collateral damage.

Tell you what, I’m glad Gourlay and Lai are on the training pitch. They’re doing a stellar job. Those pair have turned The Hawthorns into a positive environment. I look forward to chanting “stand up if you want Corberan out tomorrow”.

How dare Carlos Corberan sanction a £4.95m loan to prop up his other businesses. How dare he use such an appalling interest rate.

As for the bad - and the achievements you outline. Corberan was always a fans favourite (aside from Dyche) and you will not earlier in the thread I have provided credit for the appointment.

Your other suggestions though - removing Bruce was not a success. It was a dereliction of duty in appointing him in the first place with no thorough recruitment process. The decision to sack him came far too late. I am not celebrating the decision to sack a man who won something soft like 7 in 32.

The Val appointment wasn’t necessarily the issue - the fact we didn’t have a squad that suited his methods and proceeded to support him with additions of Hugill and Reach whilst selling off the family silver on cut prices were horrific calls. His appointment though just continues the cycle of flip flopping changing we’ve become accustomed to. From Pulis to Moore, to Shan, to Bilic, to Allardyce, to another project is Ismael, back to the dinosaurs and now another project with Carlos. Living for today, no thought for tomorrow.

As for the good - well, it’s more a small fortune than good judgement. BTA we stumbled across - despite not having an interest in him - the other was signed seemingly on the crest of a fans wave and the other were stand out performers in this division. Remind me - how’s that overhaul of the recruitment team gone? How’s that forward planning gone?

I note you cherry pick those three in particular yet ignore the two year deals for Kelly, the Phillips extension, the Button extension, Livermore, BARTLEY AND SO ON…

You’re hollier than thou attitude reeks across the forum with your continued condescending sniping at members and fan base at large which are typified by your “Bazaa from tippon” comments.

If you cannot see the issues with our poor governance then fair enough.. But supporters are equally entitled to chant where’s our money gone given the sale of Pereira and of course the £5m that is owed to us but not forthcoming.

Fair play to those supporters not willing to accept this club being ran like some 80s corner shop. If you’re happy with the way things are then great.

Personally, I’ll be joining Bazza and the other ill informed tiptoners and we’ll chant where’s the money gone Tom and we’ll continue to demonstrate frustration at how this club is being ran and I like many others will continue to push for a change of ownership in anyway that is reasonably possible.

I never said that Carlos had arranged a 20 million loan did I , nor did I say that gourlay and Lai were on the training pitch ?, but if it makes you happy .
There is no snipping at the fan base, what I object to is people having an opinion on stuff they don’t understand ….so if they want to chant about” where their money has gone”, maybe they should first invest so it actually is “their money” and then maybe get their heads around how a business works …

It’s quite clear we won’t agree , my standpoint is that the team and the manager appear to be getting something going nicely and I don’t want that disrupted by off field issues, and certainly don’t feel that I’ll informed protests based on what a friend of a friend thinks about how our clubs finances are run….are going to be productive .
I don’t hate Lai (I have never met him or done business with him ) I do understand that people care about West Bromwich Albion football club, but in everything I try to stand back and ask why ..
Why would Lai wish to create issues he doesn’t need and issues that will obviously detrimentally impact his investment ….to do so wouldn’t make sense .

[Baggies]

I'm intrigued now Zippy.

Which fans are "having an opinion on stuff they don't understand" .

Maybe you didn't intend it this way, but it comes across very heavily that you don't think fans should have too many opinions about the financial shenanigans at the club because it "isn't their money".

[overseas baggie]

I would be surprised if the club's financial position was as dire as your prediction given we have never pushed the boat out and have always run the finances conservatively, too safety-first for my liking at times. Some of the higher earners are out of contract in the summer and this recent loan from MSD has a four year repayment term.

Quite right.  It’s not quite as serious as some suggest, but it does have the potential of getting that bad.  If the Lai and Peace loans are recovered that’s at least £12m of the £20m back, and we have several players capable of being sold for decent prices to smooth the burden. 

[NJS]

Morsel of spotlight being shone on this:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64134882