[robnewbold]

We will need a scuba diving payment soon.

[overseas baggie]

Surely Lai would have the sell his shares on the open market to raise the money he owes the club.
Anyone [interested / mad enough to consider] investing could then buy those shares?

It’s a private company - there’s no “open market”

[stoxman]

That is the worrying part Kev,

All depends on the covenants of the loan.  We don’t know precisely who it is loaned to and the security of that loan.  If it is secured against a defined asset then the club could be in a very strong position.  If it’s a deeply subordinated loan that sits behind other loans and mortgages and is just a general charge against a swirling pool of assets, then far less so.  It will also depend on the jurisdiction.  We would hope that it’s governed by the courts of England and Wales against UK based assets but if it’s in China, things become less certain.   One would hope that the directors of our company, undertaking their fiduciary duty solely to our shareholders (or which Mr Lai is the largest but not the only!), would have taken appropriate advice to ensure that WBA are fully protected and that the T&Cs favour the lender, not the borrower.    Let’s hope…

[tex]

Not sure what the end game is here, 7m taken out from 180m invested seems inconsequential when you look at the clubs value loss (probably 100m or more). its not like he can keep pulling money out unless we sell players on mass and all the time the value of the club goes down.

[skyclad99]

Not sure what the end game is here, 7m taken out from 180m invested seems inconsequential when you look at the clubs value loss (probably 100m or more). its not like he can keep pulling money out unless we sell players on mass and all the time the value of the club goes down.

He has been looking at selling the ground so it kind of tells you where he is at......

[gazberg]

The son of Lai was at the game yesterday according to the E+S. They kept that quiet. Probably for the best

[overseas baggie]

He has been looking at selling the ground so it kind of tells you where he is at......

There is zero evidence whatsoever of that.  We merely released a charge over the ground that Barclays had when we owed them money which has now been repaid.

[baggiejohn]

There is zero evidence whatsoever of that.  We merely released a charge over the ground that Barclays had when we owed them money which has now been repaid.

IMO, he wouldn't get a lot of money if he did sell the stadium & the ground, but I'm still intrigued, where he would get the profit from in order to pay a dividend & re-pay his loan.

[NJS]

Surely Lai would have the sell his shares on the open market to raise the money he owes the club.
Anyone [interested / mad enough to consider] investing could then buy those shares?

It’s a private company - there’s no “open market”

It's a private company, but he can still sell a portion to pay off his debts to us?

[skyclad99]

There is zero evidence whatsoever of that.  We merely released a charge over the ground that Barclays had when we owed them money which has now been repaid.

I stand corrected OB, you are right that there is no direct evidence to support this assertion. There is a move to make the ground an Asset of Community which has been taken forward by a councillor- I am not sure where we are with that. It is basically an extra level of security to protect the ground from sale through the back door. So whilst there is no direct evidence of his intentions, through his penchant for borrowing money from the club and not paying it back ( or the debt he inherited) it demonstrates his need for money and steps have been taken to stop what many think is his next logical step.

[baggiejohn]

It's a private company, but he can still sell a portion to pay off his debts to us?

I believe you used the phrase "interested/mad enough" to describe a buyer in a previous comment?

The football club is probably worth around £90 million at the moment, Lai's share of that would be around £79 million.

To re-pay the loans he would have to sell around £12 miilion, that's around 15% of his stake.
For that amount, I think I'd want a seat on the board.

[NJS]

... with a monogrammed cushion on it!

[overseas baggie]

The minority shareholders need to urgently exert pressure on the board to force Lai to urgently repay his loans owed to the club.  The board directors acted in breach of their fiduciary duty by agreeing to advance money to him. That means they are on the hook personally for any loss suffered by the club and can be sued (one would expect them to have D&O cover to insure their personal liability).

Anyone wanting to sue the board would need to be a shareholder. I’m not currently but am certainly prepared to look at it.  Does anyone know what price any shares might be available for currently? I would only really need one share.

[gazberg]

The minority shareholders need to urgently exert pressure on the board to force Lai to urgently repay his loans owed to the club.  The board directors acted in breach of their fiduciary duty by agreeing to advance money to him. That means they are on the hook personally for any loss suffered by the club and can be sued (one would expect them to have D&O cover to insure their personal liability).

Anyone wanting to sue the board would need to be a shareholder. I’m not currently but am certainly prepared to look at it.  Does anyone know what price any shares might be available for currently? I would only really need one share.

According to below from S4A there are only 9,600 shares in the company float which is a TINY float and Lai owns 88% of them is it? So looks like there are a total of 1000 shares roughly in everyone elses hands combined.

Personally I am very surprised S4A have said nothing on these loans to Lai, in public anyway. I was going to get some with you but i guess you would be looking at closer to 10k for a share at book value unless theres someone who is terrified of where Lai is taking us and is willing to sell cheap.

If i recall when the club initially floated they were £500 each because i wanted one but i was a kid    but if there are some shareholders who bought in at £500 then they might sell at less than book value. I would. If i was a shareholder when Lai took over i'd have sold up after his first full season where he relegated us.





How do I buy or sell shares in WBA Group?

Unlike many other clubs, there is such a small number of shares in issue (approximately 9,600), the majority of which are controlled by a single individual, that no public market exists for the sale or purchase of shares in WBA Group. Transactions are carried out purely between individuals, so if you want to buy some you need to find someone willing to sell and vice-versa.

If you are in either category, we may be able to help you connect with someone in the other. However, you should be aware that the acquisition of WBA Holdings by Guochuan Lai in 2016 corresponded to a share value of somewhere around £20,000 each, which represented a significant increase on the £3-4,000 they were previously being traded at.
How do I join?

Membership is limited to owners and part-owners of shares in WBA Group Limited and our annual membership fee is £10 for individuals and £15 for family membership (i.e. where there is more than one shareholder in the family).

For further information about Shareholders For Albion please contact info@s4a.org

[overseas baggie]

According to below from S4A there are only 9,600 shares in the company float which is a TINY float and Lai owns 88% of them is it? So looks like there are a total of 1000 shares roughly in everyone elses hands combined.

Personally I am very surprised S4A have said nothing on these loans to Lai, in public anyway. I was going to get some with you but i guess you would be looking at closer to 10k for a share at book value unless theres someone who is terrified of where Lai is taking us and is willing to sell cheap.

If i recall when the club initially floated they were £500 each because i wanted one but i was a kid    but if there are some shareholders who bought in at £500 then they might sell at less than book value. I would. If i was a shareholder when Lai took over i'd have sold up after his first full season where he relegated us.





How do I buy or sell shares in WBA Group?

Unlike many other clubs, there is such a small number of shares in issue (approximately 9,600), the majority of which are controlled by a single individual, that no public market exists for the sale or purchase of shares in WBA Group. Transactions are carried out purely between individuals, so if you want to buy some you need to find someone willing to sell and vice-versa.

If you are in either category, we may be able to help you connect with someone in the other. However, you should be aware that the acquisition of WBA Holdings by Guochuan Lai in 2016 corresponded to a share value of somewhere around £20,000 each, which represented a significant increase on the £3-4,000 they were previously being traded at.
How do I join?

Membership is limited to owners and part-owners of shares in WBA Group Limited and our annual membership fee is £10 for individuals and £15 for family membership (i.e. where there is more than one shareholder in the family).

For further information about Shareholders For Albion please contact info@s4a.org

Thank you Gazberg.  Extremely helpful.  I will contact S4A.

[gazberg]

Thank you Gazberg.  Extremely helpful.  I will contact S4A.

No worries. Hopefully you can get a share at a fair price!

[AlbionFan]

The minority shareholders need to urgently exert pressure on the board to force Lai to urgently repay his loans owed to the club.  The board directors acted in breach of their fiduciary duty by agreeing to advance money to him. That means they are on the hook personally for any loss suffered by the club and can be sued (one would expect them to have D&O cover to insure their personal liability).

Anyone wanting to sue the board would need to be a shareholder. I’m not currently but am certainly prepared to look at it.  Does anyone know what price any shares might be available for currently? I would only really need one share.

As I understand it, S4A are currently pursuing the issue and have legal representation in the matter.

[gazberg]

As I understand it, S4A are currently pursuing the issue and have legal representation in the matter.

That's good to hear.

[smethwickw]

If GL has any interest in this club and his investment then he’d find a way of repaying his loan this week to enable us to sign a striker. I won’t hold my breath.

[baggiejohn]

According to below from S4A there are only 9,600 shares in the company float which is a TINY float and Lai owns 88% of them is it? So looks like there are a total of 1000 shares roughly in everyone elses hands combined.

Personally I am very surprised S4A have said nothing on these loans to Lai, in public anyway. I was going to get some with you but i guess you would be looking at closer to 10k for a share at book value unless theres someone who is terrified of where Lai is taking us and is willing to sell cheap.

If i recall when the club initially floated they were £500 each because i wanted one but i was a kid    but if there are some shareholders who bought in at £500 then they might sell at less than book value. I would. If i was a shareholder when Lai took over i'd have sold up after his first full season where he relegated us.





How do I buy or sell shares in WBA Group?

Unlike many other clubs, there is such a small number of shares in issue (approximately 9,600), the majority of which are controlled by a single individual, that no public market exists for the sale or purchase of shares in WBA Group. Transactions are carried out purely between individuals, so if you want to buy some you need to find someone willing to sell and vice-versa.

If you are in either category, we may be able to help you connect with someone in the other. However, you should be aware that the acquisition of WBA Holdings by Guochuan Lai in 2016 corresponded to a share value of somewhere around £20,000 each, which represented a significant increase on the £3-4,000 they were previously being traded at.
How do I join?

Membership is limited to owners and part-owners of shares in WBA Group Limited and our annual membership fee is £10 for individuals and £15 for family membership (i.e. where there is more than one shareholder in the family).

For further information about Shareholders For Albion please contact info@s4a.org

Interesting post Gaz.

Remarkable, that the share value was around £3000 to £4000, so the value of the football club was around £38 million & yet Lai paid JP around £150-160 million.

[overseas baggie]

Interesting post Gaz.

Remarkable, that the share value was around £3000 to £4000, so the value of the football club was around £38 million & yet Lai paid JP around £150-160 million.

Not really because you pay a lot more for a controlling interest in any company

[overseas baggie]

As I understand it, S4A are currently pursuing the issue and have legal representation in the matter.

Very good to hear.   Am still interested in acquiring a share though

[johnny Cash]

The minority shareholders need to urgently exert pressure on the board to force Lai to urgently repay his loans owed to the club.  The board directors acted in breach of their fiduciary duty by agreeing to advance money to him. That means they are on the hook personally for any loss suffered by the club and can be sued (one would expect them to have D&O cover to insure their personal liability).

Anyone wanting to sue the board would need to be a shareholder. I’m not currently but am certainly prepared to look at it.  Does anyone know what price any shares might be available for currently? I would only really need one share.

Apologies if I’ve misunderstood, but I would think it’s extremely unlikely (nigh on impossible) a new shareholder could successfully sue for actions that took place before their interest began. You’d be investing with the knowledge the entity had loaned to the owner. If he doesn’t pay the loan back when it’s been publically said he would on the other hand…..

I still think Yexisting shareholders would be far more likely to be successful though. 

[overseas baggie]

Apologies if I’ve misunderstood, but I would think it’s extremely unlikely (nigh on impossible) a new shareholder could successfully sue for actions that took place before their interest began. You’d be investing with the knowledge the entity had loaned to the owner. If he doesn’t pay the loan back when it’s been publically said he would on the other hand…..

I still think Yexisting shareholders would be far more likely to be successful though.

It wouldn’t be a personal action by me.  I wanted to ensure that a case was being made by the minority shareholders and it’s easier to do that from within, as a shareholder.  It is also very likely that further issues will arise going forward while Lai remains involved.

[SmethDan]

It wouldn’t be a personal action by me.  I wanted to ensure that a case was being made by the minority shareholders and it’s easier to do that from within, as a shareholder.  It is also very likely that further issues will arise going forward while Lai remains involved.

And that's the worrying thing. The picture isn't looking especially rosey at the moment. But it wouldn't be overly surprising for the remaining petals to fall away completely leaving us with just some prickly thorns in the @rris.