Author Topic: Guochuan Lai  (Read 2369476 times)

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SmethDan

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7725 on: February 01, 2022, 12:34:34 PM »
A genuine question with no arteria motive

What footballing people?

That's one L of a question but here goes. Williams, Goodman, Del Monte Man, Dowling and Gourlay on the football administration side. Pulis (allegedly), along with Bilic and Ismael on the actual football side. Please don't tell me I've answered in vein.
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gazberg

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7726 on: February 01, 2022, 12:35:55 PM »
I don't need a history lesson and I'm not making excuses for some questionable decisions either. There's no way I'd have extended Pulis's contract for instance but I can see the rationale of someone who doesn't spend much time at games doing so.

PUlis contract is what got the ball started in my opinion. He neither deserved it or wanted it until his lawsuit but they were so thoughtless/careless/lazy, i really don't know which, they gave him one anyway.

I'm not saying Lai is making these calls directly but what i'm saying is he's hardly paying attention to his investment going down the pan.

As you say he's essentially a front man, maybe he doesn't have a lot of skin in the game himself so that's why he's not bothered.

SmethDan

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7727 on: February 01, 2022, 12:40:45 PM »
Sorry. Got to try one of those work break things now. Don't see the attraction personally but hey ho  ;D .
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

johnny Cash

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7728 on: February 01, 2022, 12:42:34 PM »
More involved means doing anything more than the bare minimum, stop letting your underlings make mistake after mistake. Ultimately the buck stops with Lai.

People who sit back and say i pay other people to do stuff badly for me so it's not my fault always fail.

Slippery shoulders at the top levels of the club has brought us to where we are.

We know very little about how involved he has been with big decisions, but if it transpired he had made them all, I’m certain people would be saying how foolish that was.



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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7729 on: February 01, 2022, 12:43:08 PM »
I think football club owners, in general, some before, but defiantly many after the "Fan Led Review" and the Super League debacle, know appear to be embarrassing PR and are more willing to engage with fans.

PR is a great tool in the difficult area of changing opinions, altering perceptions of how fans perceive you, which is a department Albion owners have been found wanting in.

Even JRP appreciated its value, even if he did ignore it when it went against him  ;D

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gazberg

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7730 on: February 01, 2022, 12:45:01 PM »
We know very little about how involved he has been with big decisions, but if it transpired he had made them all, I’m certain people would be saying how foolish that was.

I don't know. It tends to come out eg Wilder. He's generally reported as being VERY hands off. Only when his business appearance/ego was at risk did he get involved to stop Wilders appointment.

Again it's not just him it's those below him as well and only Lai has the power to change them.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7731 on: February 01, 2022, 12:49:54 PM »
Lai gets a lot of stick, but I don't think he has done a lot wrong over the years. That is not to say decisions have worked out well, but I can see why he (or his men) have made many decisions at the point he has made them.  It is not as easy as just try harder. If it was, every club could be progressing but the nature of a league dictates that for some clubs to progress, some must regress. 

It may be that Lai thinks he has tried switching and swapping managers and that hasn't worked, so he is just going to let this play out a little longer and have faith in a process.

When things are going badly, he is a very easy target.


I’m in sympathy with a lot of this. For what my two-pennorth is worth I think Lai has been naive and unlucky on two counts.

First, he bought from Jeremy Peace. From the moment JP decided to get rid of the club, it’s been on the skids. I think he wanted to preserve the club’s status as a EPL team without putting in the investment needed to keep it developing and competitive. So by the time Lai bought, the damage had already  been done. The investment and know how needed to retrieve the situation re scouting, player recruitment, sport science, medical personnel and facilities, not to mention the effective management of the whole system, was absent.

Second, Lai paid over the odds at, reportedly, £150m. This falls at Lai’s door, caveat emptor and all that, but shows what seems to be a worrying naivety on his part. It’s possible, of course that Lai never intended this as a business venture, but as a way of staying onside with the Chinese powers that be, who, at the time we’re encouraging the buying up of football clubs in the top leagues. If that was the case, he is doubly unlucky, as no sooner had he got his proxy’s feet under the boardroom table than the Chinese government did a complete volte-face and stopped money leaving the country.  This has left Lai trying to manage his asset at a distance of 10,000 miles, using people he hardly knows in an industry he, quite possibly, doesn’t really understand, with no likelihood of being in a position to provide any financial assistance. His asset is worth very little now compared to what he paid for it. To boost its value we have to return to the EPL. Every passing week that seems more and more remote.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7732 on: February 01, 2022, 12:51:46 PM »
A genuine question with no arteria motive

What footballing people?

You are asking that in vein mate.
You need to get the heart of this matter!
the road to the summit has dips, keep the faith when navigating those dips !!
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baggiejohn

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7733 on: February 01, 2022, 01:04:40 PM »
I don't know. It tends to come out eg Wilder. He's generally reported as being VERY hands off. Only when his business appearance/ego was at risk did he get involved to stop Wilders appointment.

Again it's not just him it's those below him as well and only Lai has the power to change them.

People tend to forget that Lai is not an employee of the business, whereas Peace was.

From my own experience of dealing with the Chinese in business, they tend to be very formal & with a strict hierarchy.

Wilder's criticism of his Chairman, would not have been received well, so I'm not sure it was anything to do with ego, more of a cultural thing.

I don't know a lot about Lai, but it was said that he had a number of other interests in China, & because of that we could expect a hands off approach.

I suspect he gets involved in the bigger decisions, but the day to day is left to Ken.

IMO, Lai's biggest mistake was to allow Williams, Goodman & Pulis to take overreaching financial risks with recruitment in our first relegation season. £40 odd million of accumulated cash was wiped out that season, & IMO we've been paying for it ever since.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

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The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

gazberg

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7734 on: February 01, 2022, 01:06:48 PM »
People tend to forget that Lai is not an employee of the business, whereas Peace was.

From my own experience of dealing with the Chinese in business, they tend to be very formal & with a strict hierarchy.

Wilder's criticism of his Chairman, would not have been received well, so I'm not sure it was anything to do with ego, more of a cultural thing.

I don't know a lot about Lai, but it was said that he had a number of other interests in China, & because of that we could expect a hands off approach.

I suspect he gets involved in the bigger decisions, but the day to day is left to Ken.

IMO, Lai's biggest mistake was to allow Williams, Goodman & Pulis to take overreaching financial risks with recruitment in our first relegation season. £40 odd million of accumulated cash was wiped out that season, & IMO we've been paying for it ever since.


Hear you on the cultural thing John but that doesn't help us at all!

If he wants to be hands off but all i'm saying is he is now reaping what he sowed (or didn't, might be more apt)

tambag

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7735 on: February 01, 2022, 01:07:35 PM »
People tend to forget that Lai is not an employee of the business, whereas Peace was.

From my own experience of dealing with the Chinese in business, they tend to be very formal & with a strict hierarchy.

Wilder's criticism of his Chairman, would not have been received well, so I'm not sure it was anything to do with ego, more of a cultural thing.

I don't know a lot about Lai, but it was said that he had a number of other interests in China, & because of that we could expect a hands off approach.

I suspect he gets involved in the bigger decisions, but the day to day is left to Ken.

IMO, Lai's biggest mistake was to allow Williams, Goodman & Pulis to take overreaching financial risks with recruitment in our first relegation season. £40 odd million of accumulated cash was wiped out that season, & IMO we've been paying for it ever since.

What about blowing nearly all the budget sigining three left wingers when we were promoted - that was very poor by Ken/Dowling/Billic

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7736 on: February 01, 2022, 01:07:43 PM »
You are asking that in vein mate.
You need to get the heart of this matter!

Lol. I'm having a bad keyboard day, Dan's had to help me out earlier as well  ;D

"Ulterior"

PS. do you have an answer to my query by the way?  8)
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johnny Cash

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7737 on: February 01, 2022, 01:16:28 PM »
What about blowing nearly all the budget sigining three left wingers when we were promoted - that was very poor by Ken/Dowling/Billic

I think id blame Dowling and Bilic more than Ken. 

We have a budget and you have to trust the director of football and manager to use that. If Ken and Lai started dictating signings and positions then where does it end? Do they pick the team next?





baggiejohn

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7738 on: February 01, 2022, 01:17:46 PM »
What about blowing nearly all the budget sigining three left wingers when we were promoted - that was very poor by Ken/Dowling/Billic


Well yes................directors of football who think they know better than the head coach, think I've mentioned that before somewhere  :)
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

SmethDan

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7739 on: February 01, 2022, 01:45:04 PM »
Lol. I'm having a bad keyboard day, Dan's had to help me out earlier as well  ;D

"Ulterior"

PS. do you have an answer to my query by the way?  8)

I gave you an answer at 12:34. Did the arterial vein joke at the same time but it was clearly in vain......
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7740 on: February 01, 2022, 05:39:11 PM »
I gave you an answer at 12:34. Did the arterial vein joke at the same time but it was clearly in vain......

Somehow managed to miss your response

My question was more about our current set up and situation rather than the past 👍
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Albionic

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7741 on: February 01, 2022, 06:31:27 PM »
Lol. I'm having a bad keyboard day, Dan's had to help me out earlier as well  ;D

"Ulterior"

PS. do you have an answer to my query by the way?  8)

To be honest, I can’t remember which “footballing people” were on board the gravy train at any point in time, sorry
the road to the summit has dips, keep the faith when navigating those dips !!
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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7742 on: February 01, 2022, 07:08:58 PM »

IMO, Lai's biggest mistake was to allow Williams, Goodman & Pulis to take overreaching financial risks with recruitment in our first relegation season. £40 odd million of accumulated cash was wiped out that season, & IMO we've been paying for it ever since.

I am in agreement with this - totally.

Peace and Jenkins built this football club on solid financial reserves and that summer we managed to successfully blow the lot.

We’ve never recovered from that summer.

Nor have we recovered from the decision to appoint Pardew. That was a big cultural shift from Pulis to Pardew which should have happened in the summer.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but our best performances that season were under Megson.

He was a far more likelier fit than Pardew until the end of the season.

And the football club would have been a damn sight happier for it.
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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7743 on: February 01, 2022, 07:57:14 PM »
Agreed. It was so strange that the minute we loosened the purse strings we utterly wasted every penny on complete dross. Oddly we all thought a lot of them were good buys before they played.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7744 on: February 01, 2022, 08:52:52 PM »
I am in agreement with this - totally.

Peace and Jenkins built this football club on solid financial reserves and that summer we managed to successfully blow the lot.

We’ve never recovered from that summer.

Nor have we recovered from the decision to appoint Pardew. That was a big cultural shift from Pulis to Pardew which should have happened in the summer.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but our best performances that season were under Megson.

He was a far more likelier fit than Pardew until the end of the season.

And the football club would have been a damn sight happier for it.

I feel like the real story that season was the sheer amount of points we threw away from winning positions, 22 in total. In comparison we gained a grand total of 2 points from losing positions. Most of it was thrown away in the last 15 minutes.

It was an odd season. That squad should never have been relegated, and if they had even some level of resilience they'd have stayed up comfortably.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7745 on: February 02, 2022, 07:27:32 AM »
Whatever the thoughts of that season's management a number of players in that squad simply did not give of their best. Different management now, different players now (Phillips apart), similar scenario. Either we're cursed or we have a habit of recruiting players lacking character and with hearts of jellyfish.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7746 on: February 02, 2022, 08:04:02 PM »
Perhaps him taking the chairman's roll along with the new ceo that is the springboard for him to sell.
Or dare I say get more hands on to spend?
Theyre not stupid these Chinese are they, he'll pay himself a salary now and if any divi or he'll probably
just pay himself a salary and call it a divi to pay less tax
Also I assume he can take his money into China but not out of China any experts on here if that's still the case?

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7747 on: February 02, 2022, 08:25:22 PM »
Perhaps him taking the chairman's roll along with the new ceo that is the springboard for him to sell.
Or dare I say get more hands on to spend?
Theyre not stupid these Chinese are they, he'll pay himself a salary now and if any divi or he'll probably
just pay himself a salary and call it a divi to pay less tax
Also I assume he can take his money into China but not out of China any experts on here if that's still the case?

It's still the case that if he takes a dividend, the other shareholders would also also have to be paid.
Although he's entitled to a salary, you would think he has means other than WBA so he takes a token amount.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7748 on: February 02, 2022, 08:35:48 PM »
I hope he has come chairmen because he wants to be more involved not because he needs the money and can draw a salary

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7749 on: February 02, 2022, 09:27:53 PM »
I hope he has come chairmen because he wants to be more involved not because he needs the money and can draw a salary
Wants his £4m back
the road to the summit has dips, keep the faith when navigating those dips !!
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