Author Topic: Guochuan Lai  (Read 2369562 times)

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TheJacko2000

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7025 on: April 19, 2021, 12:25:07 PM »
The operating loss was £23.4 million.

In addition there is an outstanding debt to the owner of £23.7 million (owed to group undertakings).

It's likely to be worse this year as there was no gate revenue & the board have flagged up that broadcasters will demand a refund for games not broadcast.

Operating loss was £53 million. This is offset by £29 million in player sales. Hence the £23 million loss. Sorry lads I'll take Swiss Ramble over you two  ;D

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Baggies

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7026 on: April 19, 2021, 12:42:48 PM »
I'd be looking to belt tighten this summer following developments over the weekend. I'm not sure how much we will realistically get for players now but we need to be shifting our debt as quickly as possible.
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MarkW

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7027 on: April 19, 2021, 12:50:04 PM »
Or we could review the accounts on Companies House.

Page 7

Operating Loss/Profit before player trading

(£27.2m)

Loss/profit before taxation

(£23.8m)
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MarkW

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7028 on: April 19, 2021, 12:56:19 PM »
There's also a breakdown on page 14 onwards, but I'm no accountant
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TheJacko2000

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7029 on: April 19, 2021, 01:10:55 PM »
There's also a breakdown on page 14 onwards, but I'm no accountant

Page 12. 3rd column. Turnover - operating expenses = operating loss. 53 million - 106 million = -53 million

Just trust in Swiss Ramble. He's never wrong  ;D
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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7030 on: April 19, 2021, 01:46:53 PM »
Botton line, literally, is we lost £23.8m. So within an expected range for our promotion season.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7031 on: April 19, 2021, 02:44:06 PM »
Operating loss was £53 million. This is offset by £29 million in player sales. Hence the £23 million loss. Sorry lads I'll take Swiss Ramble over you two  ;D

Operating profit or loss does not include player sales.

Profit or loss on player sales are calculated separately

This is taken from the club's accounts:


                                          (000)

                         Turnover = £53,745
         Operating expenses = £80,766

                 Operating loss = £27,021




Player Trading:

 Profit on disposal             = £29,426
 of player registrations

 Player amortisation          = £26,140

 Profit on player trading     = £3,276


Declared loss before Tax    = £3,276 - £27,021

                                        = £23,745


All in the company accounts





« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 02:48:21 PM by baggiejohn »
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TheJacko2000

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7032 on: April 19, 2021, 03:02:40 PM »
Operating profit or loss does not include player sales.

Profit or loss on player sales are calculated separately

This is taken from the club's accounts:


                                          (000)

                         Turnover = £53,745
         Operating expenses = £80,766

                 Operating loss = £27,021




Player Trading:

 Profit on disposal             = £29,426
 of player registrations

 Player amortisation          = £26,140

 Profit on player trading     = £3,276


Declared loss before Tax    = £3,276 - £27,021

                                        = £23,745


All in the company accounts

Just nip across one column to the right John...
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baggiejohn

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7033 on: April 19, 2021, 03:10:40 PM »
Just nip across one column to the right John...

Think I know how company accounts work, I had them thrust under my nose every month for about 25 years.
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TheJacko2000

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7034 on: April 19, 2021, 03:17:18 PM »
Think I know how company accounts work, I had them thrust under my nose every month for about 25 years.

Not disputing it. I'm just stating where the number I've quoted has come from. That includes player amortisation but doesn't include player trading for the purpose of this exercise.
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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7035 on: April 19, 2021, 03:21:53 PM »
Not disputing it. I'm just stating where the number I've quoted has come from. That includes player amortisation but doesn't include player trading for the purpose of this exercise.

Which to me seems daft. Surely you either include/exclude both, not one or the other? Otherwise I could say we made a profit of £3 million, by including profits from sales but not factoring amortisation etc.

Edit: not having a go at you, more a general comment on picking the 53m number. It catches the eye, but is misleading
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TheJacko2000

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7036 on: April 19, 2021, 03:38:58 PM »
Which to me seems daft. Surely you either include/exclude both, not one or the other? Otherwise I could say we made a profit of £3 million, by including profits from sales but not factoring amortisation etc.

Edit: not having a go at you, more a general comment on picking the 53m number. It catches the eye, but is misleading

Presumably because operational expenses include everything except player trading and interest for the purposes of FC accounting?
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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7037 on: April 19, 2021, 04:32:44 PM »
I have quite literally little to no idea what any of this means. Are we in the chunky stuff or not? If yes how deep is it and will we be needing a snorkel and goggles, oxygen tanks or a submarine? Cheers  ;D .
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
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baggiejohn

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7038 on: April 19, 2021, 04:58:22 PM »
Which to me seems daft. Surely you either include/exclude both, not one or the other? Otherwise I could say we made a profit of £3 million, by including profits from sales but not factoring amortisation etc.

Edit: not having a go at you, more a general comment on picking the 53m number. It catches the eye, but is misleading

Operating profit comes from the profit & loss account, which is the sum of income minus the sum of expenditure


For accounting purposes players are intangible assets.

Tangible assets are things like plant, machinery, buildings, inventory, debtors etc.

So a FC's asset value is measured by the sum of it's assets.

Tangible assets normally depreciate in value & are written down over a period of time.

Players, on the other hand can appreciate in value, so profits from successful player trading can provide significant additional income (added into the P &L account).

The way Swiss Ramble shows this on his spreadsheets is to subtract the cost of player writedowns (amortisation etc) from the profit/loss sum, & then add the income from player sales back in. (suspect it's to simplify his model, he does a figure for every club)

The more conventional method is to calculate profit/loss from player trading & then add that result to the P & L account calculation.

As I demonstrated above WBA made an operational loss (income less cost of sales & administration) of £27 million.
Offset against that was a profit on player trading of £3.3 million

So a net loss of £23.7 million.


As Swiss Ramble pointed out, we sold some comparatively high value players last year (J Rod, Craig Dawson & Salomon Rondon). We're not expected to get anywhere near that income this year & we've paid out around £46 million.

Even with parachute payments, it's difficult to see how were going to generate enough cash to make major changes to the squad without some inward investment



If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

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baggiejohn

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7039 on: April 19, 2021, 05:10:18 PM »
I have quite literally little to no idea what any of this means. Are we in the chunky stuff or not? If yes how deep is it and will we be needing a snorkel and goggles, oxygen tanks or a submarine? Cheers  ;D .

Personally, I think we need to get some cash from somewhere.

According to local press, Luke Dowling has said that there will be funds to change the squad next season, just have to wait and see
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7040 on: April 19, 2021, 05:19:47 PM »
Personally, I think we need to get some cash from somewhere.

According to local press, Luke Dowling has said that there will be funds to change the squad next season, just have to wait and see

Cheers. So while promotion was a financial godsend in the short to medium term (parachute payments) we're stuffed if we don't get promoted ASAP should we drop.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7041 on: April 19, 2021, 05:57:54 PM »
I feel like I’ve just sat through a 2 hour accountancy lecture. Anyone fancy a beer? My shout!🤪
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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7042 on: April 19, 2021, 08:03:43 PM »
I feel like I’ve just sat through a 2 hour accountancy lecture. Anyone fancy a beer? My shout!🤪

Waaaaay ahead of ya  ;D .
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7043 on: April 19, 2021, 08:16:15 PM »
I have quite literally little to no idea what any of this means. Are we in the chunky stuff or not? If yes how deep is it and will we be needing a snorkel and goggles, oxygen tanks or a submarine? Cheers  ;D .
Having been to Shenzhen numerous times I can say with authority Guochan Lai is a bigger ****hole than you or WBA Dan !
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 08:27:10 PM by MarkW »
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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7044 on: April 20, 2021, 11:12:35 AM »
Operating profit comes from the profit & loss account, which is the sum of income minus the sum of expenditure


For accounting purposes players are intangible assets.

Tangible assets are things like plant, machinery, buildings, inventory, debtors etc.

So a FC's asset value is measured by the sum of it's assets.

Tangible assets normally depreciate in value & are written down over a period of time.

Players, on the other hand can appreciate in value, so profits from successful player trading can provide significant additional income (added into the P &L account).

The way Swiss Ramble shows this on his spreadsheets is to subtract the cost of player writedowns (amortisation etc) from the profit/loss sum, & then add the income from player sales back in. (suspect it's to simplify his model, he does a figure for every club)

The more conventional method is to calculate profit/loss from player trading & then add that result to the P & L account calculation.

As I demonstrated above WBA made an operational loss (income less cost of sales & administration) of £27 million.
Offset against that was a profit on player trading of £3.3 million

So a net loss of £23.7 million.


As Swiss Ramble pointed out, we sold some comparatively high value players last year (J Rod, Craig Dawson & Salomon Rondon). We're not expected to get anywhere near that income this year & we've paid out around £46 million.

Even with parachute payments, it's difficult to see how were going to generate enough cash to make major changes to the squad without some inward investment
we go down assets will be sold ie Sam Pereira and Bartley £50 million plus for those not that I want them sold.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7045 on: April 20, 2021, 11:23:48 AM »
I had a look at the accounts again last night in a bit more detail.

Couple of things of interest:

We wrote off some £6 million in the value of player registrations. I image that was almost all the book value of Oliver Burke.

If any transactions take place immediately after year end (so after 31/07/20) that will have an impact on current seasons finances, it's normally disclosed towards the end of the directors' report.

We spent around £33 million on player registrations & recovered around £3 million on player sales. It was confirmed that the MP deal fell into 2019/20 financial year.

So as things stand, in the current financial year, we have expenditure of £30 million on player registrations (almost all of that on Grant & Diangana).
Add to that a wage bill of around £60 million, there's not a lot left from the EPL money.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

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The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7046 on: April 20, 2021, 11:26:46 AM »
we go down assets will be sold ie Sam Pereira and Bartley £50 million plus for those not that I want them sold.

Not sure how we keep Sam Allardyce if that's the case.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

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The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7047 on: April 20, 2021, 11:45:12 AM »
we go down assets will be sold ie Sam Pereira and Bartley £50 million plus for those not that I want them sold.

Seriously doubt we'd be looking at £50mill for those three in a post Covid pre ESL world if we go down. Two of them only have twelve months on their contracts and to the best of my knowledge Pereira still hasn't signed the improved deal that would have pushed his wages up and increased his value.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7048 on: April 21, 2021, 12:56:46 AM »
Seriously doubt we'd be looking at £50mill for those three in a post Covid pre ESL world if we go down. Two of them only have twelve months on their contracts and to the best of my knowledge Pereira still hasn't signed the improved deal that would have pushed his wages up and increased his value.

Good points.
Also gibbs 30k a week saved championship
Austin 30-35k a week also
Grosicki 25k also probably going.

Livermore entering last year of contract along with johnstone so we may field offers for these... that's without even having to accept offer for periera... think we will be ok
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MarkW

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7049 on: April 21, 2021, 10:42:25 AM »
Good points.
Also gibbs 30k a week saved championship
Austin 30-35k a week also
Grosicki 25k also probably going.

Livermore entering last year of contract along with johnstone so we may field offers for these... that's without even having to accept offer for periera... think we will be ok

If you think someone is going to come and take Livermore off us, you're going to be disappointed.
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