Author Topic: Guochuan Lai (Read 2369712 times)

overseas baggie · « **Reply #6950 on:** March 13, 2021, 05:41:42 PM »

Quote from: BaggieBoy04 on March 13, 2021, 04:23:30 PM

I didn't awnser as I don't know he might have taken out money for all we knew but he probably notices the extra income

What do you mean â€œfor all we knewâ€? Thatâ€™s what the audited accounts are for!

elmo_in_swansea · « **Reply #6951 on:** March 13, 2021, 05:43:27 PM »

Guochan Lai? Who's he?

costa blanca baggie · « **Reply #6952 on:** March 13, 2021, 06:17:31 PM »

Quote from: elmo_in_swansea on March 13, 2021, 05:43:27 PM

Guochan Lai? Who's he?

He who!!😁

tex · « **Reply #6953 on:** March 14, 2021, 12:56:35 PM »

So what now? Lai does not know the first thing about how to run a club and in picking allardyce he now has a coach that just gave up. Allardyce is now looking for scapegoats and is signaling that nearly all of the summer signings are a bust. Apart from okay it also looks like January was poor as well. What does he do now, he wants out but if he canâ€™t sell he has to find a new coach to get us out of the championship (Allardyce is not he answer, I used to think he was). The team around Lai are poor, from what I can see, so recruitment of players should not be left to them. It leaves us with the most pivotal question, who should be the next head coach? You would have to let him effectively act as DoF as well. Lai is not going to change everything without completely messing it up so I would suggest we need a coach/manager who can pick this squad up, add a couple for players leaving and loans finishing and go again in the championship. This should be our best chance of getting back up, however with the high degree of incompetence running the club who knows

hardtobeat · « **Reply #6954 on:** March 29, 2021, 01:31:05 PM »

3 of the 6 clubs having Chinese league license revoked are owned by companies which have clubs in Europe(1) Suning(Inter Milan)(2)Renhe(Reading)(3)Shenzhen Bogang's majority shareholder is Palm Sports, which own West Bromwich Albion. As Jiangsu, Bogang players' salary are unpaid.

Have just seen this on a Twitter account from something called Titan sports although the actual piece seems to be written by Prof Chadwick !

BigFrank20 · « **Reply #6955 on:** March 29, 2021, 01:37:58 PM »

Quote from: hardtobeat on March 29, 2021, 01:31:05 PM

3 of the 6 clubs having Chinese league license revoked are owned by companies which have clubs in Europe(1) Suning(Inter Milan)(2)Renhe(Reading)(3)Shenzhen Bogang's majority shareholder is Palm Sports, which own West Bromwich Albion. As Jiangsu, Bogang players' salary are unpaid
Have just seen this on a Twitter account from something called Titan sports although the actual piece seems to be written by Prof Chadwick !

https://twitter.com/titan_plus/status/1376503528848384017/photo/1

Albionic · « **Reply #6956 on:** March 29, 2021, 01:38:37 PM »

that does not bode well

Dexy · « **Reply #6957 on:** March 29, 2021, 01:53:46 PM »

Hopefully the beginning of the end for this unhappy marriage , yes you have to cautious who is next but there's not much of a future with this mysterious lot .

paulosull · « **Reply #6958 on:** March 29, 2021, 06:24:01 PM »

Chinese government thinks he's an idiot #welcome to the club. 😭

BaggieBoy04 · « **Reply #6959 on:** March 29, 2021, 06:37:16 PM »

Quote from: paulosull on March 29, 2021, 06:24:01 PM

Chinese government thinks he's an idiot #welcome to the club. 😭

They think the same as us nice to know the Chinese agree they can take him back

tommcneill · « **Reply #6960 on:** March 29, 2021, 07:22:08 PM »

Palm Sports donâ€™t own us though do they?

I thought Lai had a shareholding in Palm Sports but we are owned by Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited of which Lai is the majority shareholder

timdon · « **Reply #6961 on:** March 29, 2021, 07:31:06 PM »

Quote from: tommcneill on March 29, 2021, 07:22:08 PM

Palm Sports donâ€™t own us though do they?

I thought Lai had a shareholding in Palm Sports but we are owned by Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited of which Lai is the majority shareholder

Yeah, I think you are right. Doesn't really change much though.

baggiejohn · « **Reply #6962 on:** March 29, 2021, 07:51:32 PM »

Quote from: tommcneill on March 29, 2021, 07:22:08 PM

Palm Sports donâ€™t own us though do they?

I thought Lai had a shareholding in Palm Sports but we are owned by Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited of which Lai is the majority shareholder

Haven't got a clue Tom.

Company accounts confirm that the WBA ultimate parent company is Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Ltd. I understand that company is a consortium led by Lai, no idea if he is the majority shareholder.

I have heard of Palm Eco Town, which is the company Lai built, but he no longer holds a board position with the business.

Today is the first I've heard of Palm Sports.

To quote Einstein "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"

or was it Sir Walter Scott ?

Albionic · « **Reply #6963 on:** March 29, 2021, 08:25:35 PM »

yes, but who do they own, WBAFC plc, WBA Holdings plc, or some other entity.

SmethDan · « **Reply #6964 on:** March 30, 2021, 01:56:27 AM »

It doesn't matter. There's an opportunity for a meltdown. Never turn your nose up at an opportunity for a meltdown. Ever. It's the law.

skyclad99 · « **Reply #6965 on:** March 30, 2021, 11:00:15 AM »

Quote from: baggiejohn on March 29, 2021, 07:51:32 PM

Haven't got a clue Tom.

Company accounts confirm that the WBA ultimate parent company is Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Ltd. I understand that company is a consortium led by Lai, no idea if he is the majority shareholder.

I have heard of Palm Eco Town, which is the company Lai built, but he no longer holds a board position with the business.

Today is the first I've heard of Palm Sports.

To quote Einstein "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"

or was it Sir Walter Scott ?

Are you sure Einstein said that John?

I can absolutely assure you that you will be corrected in due course!

I questioned the actual ownership a couple of weeks ago and was referred to Companies House, but it just seems way to murky for me. I don't think this is going to end well to be honest.

baggiejohn · « **Reply #6966 on:** March 30, 2021, 02:22:05 PM »

Quote from: skyclad99 on March 30, 2021, 11:00:15 AM

Are you sure Einstein said that John?

I can absolutely assure you that you will be corrected in due course!

I questioned the actual ownership a couple of weeks ago and was referred to Companies House, but it just seems way to murky for me. I don't think this is going to end well to be honest.

Our latest accounts (to June 2019) are available to view on the Companies House website.
A paragraph in that document states that WBA ultimate parent company is Unyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Ltd. I'm reasonably confident that Lai heads up that company, but I don't know the percentage of his equity. It might be that the other shareholders think that he is best qualified to lead the company & have nominated him to represent their interests.

Despite all the reports in UK media, I'm still yet to be convinced that Lai paid Â£190 million for us.

A number of members of this forum have unearthed articles from Chinese websites, including one from Palm Eco Town, that stated their contribution to the consortium was Â£30 million.
Allegedly the consortium consists of three contributors, Palm Eco Town & two asset management companies.
The ratio of contributions were 50%, 18% & 32%.
The wording of the statement suggests that Palm Eco Town contributed 18%, making the bid value at circa Â£167 million.

Now, I've no other information to challenge that version of the deal, except.......

When Lai took ownership of JP's shareholding, there was a massive campaign promoting Palm Eco Town, including Palm branding at the Hawthorns & shirt sponsorship & the re-naming of our training ground.

It looked to me that the success of WBA was to be closely linked to Lai's vision for Palm Eco Town.

Certainly didn't look like an 18% contribution to me.

If, on the other hand, Palm Eco Town contributed 50%, then the value of the bid would have been around Â£60 million, & probably closer to the true value of the club.

If Lai is trying to recover Â£60 million, then the hole is not quite so deep, but I guess we'll never know

skyclad99 · « **Reply #6967 on:** March 30, 2021, 05:38:52 PM »

Quote from: baggiejohn on March 30, 2021, 02:22:05 PM

Our latest accounts (to June 2019) are available to view on the Companies House website.
A paragraph in that document states that WBA ultimate parent company is Unyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Ltd. I'm reasonably confident that Lai heads up that company, but I don't know the percentage of his equity. It might be that the other shareholders think that he is best qualified to lead the company & have nominated him to represent their interests.

Despite all the reports in UK media, I'm still yet to be convinced that Lai paid Â£190 million for us.

A number of members of this forum have unearthed articles from Chinese websites, including one from Palm Eco Town, that stated their contribution to the consortium was Â£30 million.
Allegedly the consortium consists of three contributors, Palm Eco Town & two asset management companies.
The ratio of contributions were 50%, 18% & 32%.
The wording of the statement suggests that Palm Eco Town contributed 18%, making the bid value at circa Â£167 million.

Now, I've no other information to challenge that version of the deal, except.......

When Lai took ownership of JP's shareholding, there was a massive campaign promoting Palm Eco Town, including Palm branding at the Hawthorns & shirt sponsorship & the re-naming of our training ground.

It looked to me that the success of WBA was to be closely linked to Lai's vision for Palm Eco Town.

Certainly didn't look like an 18% contribution to me.

If, on the other hand, Palm Eco Town contributed 50%, then the value of the bid would have been around Â£60 million, & probably closer to the true value of the club.

If Lai is trying to recover Â£60 million, then the hole is not quite so deep, but I guess we'll never know

If it was linked the the success of WBA then the song â€˜Ghost townâ€™ springs to mind.

Good explanation John but still vague (not by you may I add)

TheJacko2000 · « **Reply #6968 on:** March 30, 2021, 06:07:58 PM »

Swiss Ramble stated on Twitter in May 2020 that the 88% stake in the club was sold for Â£175 million.

The sponsorship deals with Palm which followed were just that, sponsorship deals.

If they had only paid Â£60 million we wouldn't be having this conversation because they could make a healthy profit with a sale tomorrow.

The sale price is widely accepted despite being undisclosed.

overseas baggie · « **Reply #6969 on:** March 30, 2021, 11:25:23 PM »

Quote from: baggiejohn on March 30, 2021, 02:22:05 PM

Our latest accounts (to June 2019) are available to view on the Companies House website.
A paragraph in that document states that WBA ultimate parent company is Unyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Ltd. I'm reasonably confident that Lai heads up that company, but I don't know the percentage of his equity. It might be that the other shareholders think that he is best qualified to lead the company & have nominated him to represent their interests.

Despite all the reports in UK media, I'm still yet to be convinced that Lai paid Â£190 million for us.

A number of members of this forum have unearthed articles from Chinese websites, including one from Palm Eco Town, that stated their contribution to the consortium was Â£30 million.
Allegedly the consortium consists of three contributors, Palm Eco Town & two asset management companies.
The ratio of contributions were 50%, 18% & 32%.
The wording of the statement suggests that Palm Eco Town contributed 18%, making the bid value at circa Â£167 million.

Now, I've no other information to challenge that version of the deal, except.......

When Lai took ownership of JP's shareholding, there was a massive campaign promoting Palm Eco Town, including Palm branding at the Hawthorns & shirt sponsorship & the re-naming of our training ground.

It looked to me that the success of WBA was to be closely linked to Lai's vision for Palm Eco Town.

Certainly didn't look like an 18% contribution to me.

If, on the other hand, Palm Eco Town contributed 50%, then the value of the bid would have been around Â£60 million, & probably closer to the true value of the club.

If Lai is trying to recover Â£60 million, then the hole is not quite so deep, but I guess we'll never know

I can state with absolute certainty that the figure was more like the Â£170m range because I know one of the other bidders was unsuccessful at around the Â£150m mark. I canâ€™t say any more, but Peace definitely did not sell for Â£60m!

Whether it was Â£167m or Â£175m could depend on exchange rates, brokerage fees etc.

If it is suggested that the Chinese investors in the consortium did only invest Â£60m of their own money then that is technically possible. The consortium vehicle may well have borrowed the balance of the purchase price (but thatâ€™s their debt, not the clubâ€™s debt - thankfully!).

Standaman · « **Reply #6970 on:** March 31, 2021, 09:55:14 AM »

Palm Eco Development paid 300m yuan for 18% of Peace's controlling stake this gives a sale price of roughly Â£188m and a total valuation at the time (taking into account the 12% of the club held by the minority shareholders) of around Â£212m.

If Lai was prepared to sell at a massive loss then there is a potential for a future owner to get a profit i.e. buy the club for say Â£60m get it promoted and sell on at Â£120m. Yet it only works if we get promoted otherwise even Â£60m is too much because financially the Championship is just a slow bleed. Sheffield Wednesday were bought on that basis but at the moment it is costing the owner Â£0.5m a week just to keep the lights on.

Football makes no sense financially and without fundamental reform it never will. Yet the only people remotely interested in buying clubs (American Sports investors and Private Equity firms) are doing so with a view to making money. I am either missing something here or they are.

baggie82 · « **Reply #6971 on:** March 31, 2021, 03:53:29 PM »

Quote from: Standaman on March 31, 2021, 09:55:14 AM

Palm Eco Development paid 300m yuan for 18% of Peace's controlling stake this gives a sale price of roughly Â£188m and a total valuation at the time (taking into account the 12% of the club held by the minority shareholders) of around Â£212m.

If Lai was prepared to sell at a massive loss then there is a potential for a future owner to get a profit i.e. buy the club for say Â£60m get it promoted and sell on at Â£120m. Yet it only works if we get promoted otherwise even Â£60m is too much because financially the Championship is just a slow bleed. Sheffield Wednesday were bought on that basis but at the moment it is costing the owner Â£0.5m a week just to keep the lights on.

Football makes no sense financially and without fundamental reform it never will. Yet the only people remotely interested in buying clubs (American Sports investors and Private Equity firms) are doing so with a view to making money. I am either missing something here or they are.

We need owners who want to grow the size of the club, with a new Halfords lane, a better training ground, a bigger fan base and some ambition to get people exited again. It is difficult for us to compete in the premiership given we have wasted the opportunities over the past ten years to grow the size of the club; chiefly so Peace could post a small profit on his balance sheet for consecutive seasons in order to talk Lai into paying him as much money as possible. The premiership is the biggest league in the World and football the most popular sport in the World and yet we are run like a village parish.

TheJacko2000 · « **Reply #6972 on:** March 31, 2021, 05:01:35 PM »

You can definitely tell it's International break when the old rebuild the Halfords shout resurfaces

. Roll on Saturday when we can get back to moaning about Matt Phillips and looking like a slightly competitive side.

lewisant · « **Reply #6973 on:** April 01, 2021, 06:26:48 PM »

Quote from: baggie82 on March 31, 2021, 03:53:29 PM

We need owners who want to grow the size of the club, with a new Halfords lane, a better training ground, a bigger fan base and some ambition to get people exited again. It is difficult for us to compete in the premiership given we have wasted the opportunities over the past ten years to grow the size of the club; chiefly so Peace could post a small profit on his balance sheet for consecutive seasons in order to talk Lai into paying him as much money as possible. The premiership is the biggest league in the World and football the most popular sport in the World and yet we are run like a village parish.

We missed this opportunity a few years ago with the Pepe Mel/Alan Irvine saga and then the need for firefighter Pulis to come in. He fought the fires and then knocked the house down and we ended up with all these plodders like Livermore.

Halfords Lane, we do not need to think about that until we get the scouting, academy and playing side of things all back on track in my opinion.

elmo_in_swansea · « **Reply #6974 on:** April 01, 2021, 06:48:23 PM »

Quote from: baggie82 on March 31, 2021, 03:53:29 PM

We need owners who want to grow the size of the club, with a new Halfords lane, a better training ground, a bigger fan base and some ambition to get people exited again. It is difficult for us to compete in the premiership given we have wasted the opportunities over the past ten years to grow the size of the club; chiefly so Peace could post a small profit on his balance sheet for consecutive seasons in order to talk Lai into paying him as much money as possible. The premiership is the biggest league in the World and football the most popular sport in the World and yet we are run like a village parish.

Personally I think this particular boat has sailed. We had our chance when we were the only West Midlands club in the Premier league and blew it.
Reading the article about Tom Silk and all the subsequent years of penny pinching up to the point of where we were, really annoys me and I fear we will end up like a Nottingham Forest and languish in the Chumpionship for the forseeable future