[ex coseley kid]

current owner has no interest beyond selling. long term plans such as those above do nothing to maximise his return in the near term. This is not going to change, when we get relegated to the championship expect the same.

That's as may be but he needs to get interested fast or his investment is going to completely disappear.

[johnny Cash]

*Sign young, up-and coming players.  Give the academy kids game time. Those that are too good for us get moves for decent money, which we can reinvest in the team. Those who are good enough for us stay and fill out out squad. Those that aren't good enough can be moved on for smaller fees to lower clubs, which covers the cost of bringing in new younger players.

*Look into the clubs off-field income. It's been mentioned before that the club *may* have an extensive portfolio of land. Do something with it. Build houses and sell them off. Build flats and rent them out. Build shops, offices, entertainment centres, whatever exists in a post-Covid world. Sell it off and bring the cash back into the club. No use just sitting on it.

*Look for other revenue streams. We don't want the Hawthorns sponsored, but can we sell other sponsorships to bring in more money. Can we advertise more stuff somewhere.

*Make attempts to expand the fan base. This is the most difficult one, and the one I struggle to find an answer to. But there are a lot of older people in the Hawthorns on matchdays, and I don't really see younger faces replacing them. The changing face of the local community, people who don't have deep historical ties to the area doesn't help, while our traditional fanbase moves further afield. It's a long-term problem that requires long-term solutions.

Those are just starting points, but they are basic ones that the club should be looking at to maximise its income. The fact that we aren't doing this shows a complete lack of forethought on the part of everybody involved.

I don’t disagree with most of what you’ve said, but it’s sort of missing this point. That would all be club driven income which by all accounts we do seem to spend. The connotations of being cheap are that you have more but choose not to utilise it, whereas this doesn’t seem to be the case at all. Where’s the treasure chest we have laying around and aren’t using?

Our transfer policy should be to signing young up and coming players I agree. We  should always  be looking to develop our fan base and commercial income, are we doing enough, probably not. I’d imagine commmercial income is a drop in the ocean compared to premier league tv money, but we have to build where we can.

I’m not sure the club becoming a property building company is the right way to go though.

 

[tex]

He’s still here

[Droitwich Baggie]

How on Earth he can call himself a businessman, I cannot understand.
To grow and reap a reward, you have to invest. You just cannot afford to stand still in business.

[darbolina]

Booooo Lai Out

[johnny Cash]

How on Earth he can call himself a businessman, I cannot understand.
To grow and reap a reward, you have to invest. You just cannot afford to stand still in business.

I'd like to know what people mean when they say we should invest,  and say things like you have. What exactly are you asking for?  His own money, or to borrow against future income?

If an owner need to keep putting their own money in to a business, you generally have a failing business.

Most businesses look to perform well and then reinvest their own profits to grow, or would borrow against the business.

We 'invest' every time we buy a player, we 'invest' in the academy every day.  The comparisons between football and usual businesses dont really stand up.

I think most cry's for investment are just wanting a cash injection from the owner.   

[Droitwich Baggie]

His own money first, then he can take it back out with interest, when we move forward.
Or even sell onto someone else, as an ongoing profit making business.

[gerry m]

I'd like to know what people mean when they say we should invest,  and say things like you have. What exactly are you asking for?  His own money, or to borrow against future income?

If an owner need to keep putting their own money in to a business, you generally have a failing business.

Most businesses look to perform well and then reinvest their own profits to grow, or would borrow against the business.

We 'invest' every time we buy a player, we 'invest' in the academy every day.  The comparisons between football and usual businesses dont really stand up.

I think most cry's for investment are just wanting a cash injection from the owner.

Understand what you are trying to say but you talk about a 'failing business'. Once we are relegated no more Premier League money so is that not a failure?.

[NJS]

Every game we loose the price drops.  When is he going to fold?   Even with the desire not to loose face, the Chinese - including his backers - know the difference between gambling and dithering.

[tex]

We have gone past the point of trying to sell this as a premiership club. We have gone past the point at which we could bring more players in. he may sell in the summer and just take the loss but he didn't do that las time. Other than asking for his money back in a sale i don't see any strategy to improve the value of the club.

[Droitwich Baggie]

Just been watching a program on the TV.
In it someone said.
"In business, you have to invest for the future, or it shows that you can't see a future."

[TheJacko2000]

Just been watching a program on the TV.
In it someone said.
"In business, you have to invest for the future, or it shows that you can't see a future."

Someone asked recently what exactly do you (not you personally) mean by invest? The club reinvests virtually all it's earnings back into the club.

[Droitwich Baggie]

Do what Sheik Mansour at Man City did, and plough some of his own money into the team and then reap the rewards.

[TheJacko2000]

Do what Sheik Mansour at Man City did, and plough some of his own money into the team and then reap the rewards.

I'll let someone else take this one mate 

[BB74]

Someone asked recently what exactly do you (not you personally) mean by invest? The club reinvests virtually all it's earnings back into the club.

There doesn’t even seem to be a shareholder dividend either so there isn’t any money going out to China.

[Albionic]

I'll let someone else take this one mate 

£22Bn reasons why Jacko declined,

Man city isn't even an entry on the Sheiks balance sheet, whereas Lai has a large slice of his cake in WBAFC (metaphors inc!)

[boinging_along]

There doesn’t even seem to be a shareholder dividend either so there isn’t any money going out to China.

There's many ways you can get money out of a business that doesn't involve direct dividends and wages.  I'm not saying that this is what he's done by the way.

[iwastherein68]

Who is getting paid for the new development at the training ground? Palm by any chance?

[baggiejohn]

There's many ways you can get money out of a business that doesn't involve direct dividends and wages.  I'm not saying that this is what he's done by the way.

Tell me more

[boinging_along]

Tell me more

Have other companies that have beneficial tax rates or benefits and agree commercial terms with them.  Not unlike Trump using his own hotels to stay at as part of the presidency, the money didn't go directly into his pocket but it will end up there one way or the other. 

Or say somewhere like Singapore that has really low tax rates, so Company A pays Singapore Company B for services.  Person A takes money out of Company B.  Company A now has reduced profit, so pays less corporation tax, while Person A gets their money at a reduced tax rate, meanwhile, it doesn't look like Person A has taken money from Company A, etc.

Stuff like this happens all the while, kickbacks can be similar.  Or say you hire building firm A to do some work for your company at a high rate, and in exchange he does work on your house at a low rate.

Like I said, I've no idea what Lai does, I'm just saying that having his West Brom Company pay dividends or big wages won't be the only way to move cash around to his benefit if he wanted to.

[tex]

he wants out, don't think he is that creative with money. Got sold a lemon and would like to sell it as lemonade (with an expensive dash of port)

[baggiejohn]

Have other companies that have beneficial tax rates or benefits and agree commercial terms with them.  Not unlike Trump using his own hotels to stay at as part of the presidency, the money didn't go directly into his pocket but it will end up there one way or the other. 

Or say somewhere like Singapore that has really low tax rates, so Company A pays Singapore Company B for services.  Person A takes money out of Company B.  Company A now has reduced profit, so pays less corporation tax, while Person A gets their money at a reduced tax rate, meanwhile, it doesn't look like Person A has taken money from Company A, etc.

Stuff like this happens all the while, kickbacks can be similar.  Or say you hire building firm A to do some work for your company at a high rate, and in exchange he does work on your house at a low rate.

Like I said, I've no idea what Lai does, I'm just saying that having his West Brom Company pay dividends or big wages won't be the only way to move cash around to his benefit if he wanted to.

WBAFC don't pay enough tax to make tax avoidance worth while.

A company only pays tax on it's profits, & some years WBAFC have made a loss, so paid no tax at all.

Lai is not an employee of WBAFC, so he doesn't get paid a wage.

By company law, any monies made by WBAFC belongs to the company.

Lai owns 88% of the shares of WBAFC & all of WBA Holdings, the only way he can get a return on his investment is either by dividend, or by selling all or part of his shareholding.

[Standaman]

WBAFC don't pay enough tax to make tax avoidance worth while.

A company only pays tax on it's profits, & some years WBAFC have made a loss, so paid no tax at all.

Lai is not an employee of WBAFC, so he doesn't get paid a wage.

By company law, any monies made by WBAFC belongs to the company.

Lai owns 88% of the shares of WBAFC & all of WBA Holdings, the only way he can get a return on his investment is either by dividend, or by selling all or part of his shareholding.

I would also add that virtually all of the the Club's activities are UK based and therefore subject to UK tax law. So wages are paid through PAYE and VAT is levied on transactions the scope for leakage is limited.

Furthermore WBA's corporate structure is very straight forward and if there was a concerted effort to move money out from the club there would be a web of associated offshore companies there is no such web.

In general football clubs while being financial basket cases are fairly basic in their financial transactions when compared to a large multi-national corporation.

As much as fans would like there to be a grand conspiracy which further undermines Lai the truth is there isn't. There is just a not untypical level of ineptitude that characterises many football club owners who are seduced by the game and it's prospects for good PR and positive influence.  Both of which are wildly exaggerated. 

[paulosull]

Any update on his attempt to sell club?

[Standaman]

The last comment I have seen in the media was from Steve Madeley did a Q&A on the Athletic and the situation remains the same there has been some interest but the valuations are miles apart.

While Madeley is just your typical sports journalist and has no particular insight, the Athletic has a guy called Matt Slater who tends to work on the finance/ownership side of the game and his work is very well sourced, for instance he got to the details of the Burnley deal quicker than most. If there was anything significant happening I would think he is most likely to get the story therefore by proxy Madeley is probably right.