[overseas baggie]

JP was only interested in maximising his return. If you think otherwise your deluding yourself. I don’t know why your referencing the finance needed to compete at this level, Lai has no cash, has never put any cash into the club and said from day one the club would have to be self sufficient. Kind of provides the point that JP was only interested in maximising the sale price and that the sale to Lai was a sideways step. JP’s talk of selling us onto an owner to take us to the next level was hollow. He could have pitched the club at a discount to FOSUN who were sniffing but he didn’t have any willingness to limit his return for the good of the club.

Up until you mentioned FOSUN you were making some very valid points.  FOSUN ended up buying Wolves for next to nothing. No sane businessman would be expected to walk away from nearly £200m and accrue anything like what FOSUN paid for Wolves.

I do accept the point though that if Peace was genuine about selling to someone who could take the club forward, then he was either (a) fooled by Lai, (b) didn’t do enough due diligence, or (c) didn’t care.  Only Peace knows the truth and we can all speculate.

[Hunnington Baggie]

JP was only interested in maximising his return. If you think otherwise your deluding yourself. I don’t know why your referencing the finance needed to compete at this level, Lai has no cash, has never put any cash into the club and said from day one the club would have to be self sufficient. Kind of provides the point that JP was only interested in maximising the sale price and that the sale to Lai was a sideways step. JP’s talk of selling us onto an owner to take us to the next level was hollow. He could have pitched the club at a discount to FOSUN who were sniffing but he didn’t have any willingness to limit his return for the good of the club.

if i remember correctly, Peace rejected a takeover before Lai came in and it was heavily implied to have been from FOSUN.

[elmo_in_swansea]

The silence from the top table is deafening - not a peep to be heard!

[LiamTheBaggie]

Out of interest, is there anyone on here who thought JP was a solid owner doing the best for us that has since changed their mind?

He delivered this football clubs most successful period in nigh on 40 years.

He made a fair load of wonga through the sale - FairPlay to him, I’d have done the same.

If there’s an offer on the table, you take it..

[Dexy]

He delivered this football clubs most successful period in nigh on 40 years.

He made a fair load of wonga through the sale - FairPlay to him, I’d have done the same.

If there’s an offer on the table, you take it..

Exactly , its like selling your house for a lesser price because your neighbours favoured the look of those buyers rather than the highest bidder .
We had our rise out of JP , he was never going to turn down that offer .

[zippyandbungle]

The problem is everyone looks at football differently as if it is something completely different to the real world when unfortunately it is not.

If another team offers a player a 20k wage rise and he leaves then he gets booed and called a traitor but those same people would jump at the offer if another employer offered them a significant wage rise.

The same with Peace; if everyone was offering £160m for arguments sake but the this clown Lai come and offered £200m what do you expect him to accept, id love to see people say they would turn down £40m, it’s easy to say when it’s not your money.

I’m not sticking up for Peace but I doubt he or anybody could see that we would be in this mess that we are in & don’t forget even though it went t*ts up, that first summer Lai was in charge we spent more than we ever did on wages and transfers and everyone on here was saying how fantastic it was and our best ever transfer window.

We would have never broke £100k p/w  under Peace so maybe it was right that Lai intended to do that little bit more, unfortunately like I say it all went wrong on the pitch that season and that’s where the interest was lost.

You sir, write what I think...👍

[AlbionFan]

He delivered this football clubs most successful period in nigh on 40 years.

He made a fair load of wonga through the sale - FairPlay to him, I’d have done the same.

If there’s an offer on the table, you take it..

Agreed Liam, as I have little problem with someone who serves there own interests by serving the interests of others to make profit, we all do it on one scale or another

[iwastherein68]

He delivered this football clubs most successful period in nigh on 40 years.

He made a fair load of wonga through the sale - FairPlay to him, I’d have done the same.

If there’s an offer on the table, you take it..

Spot on Liam, agree entirely.

[GREGMT]

I can't stand Jeremy Peace, never put his own money into WBA, denied us a new reputable owner.

We should've have built the extension to the Halfords and made us into a bigger club and sent out a message to the media that we're better than "Little West Brom".  This tag has absolutely dogged us with VAR this season, the club's reputation is just so low.  Those VAR decisions will help to relegate us.

There was complacency under Peace.  Handing out contract extensions to seasoned pro's who were in decline and got too comfortable, Brunt & Morrison come to mind.   

The real hero was Ashworth in uncovering those bargains and enabling WBA to punch above it's weight for so long; Olsson - £850,000, Mulumbu - £100,000, Yacob - £250,000, McAuley - FREE, Scharner - FREE, Odemwingie £1.5m etc.

As soon as transfers went the other way, this is the legacy; Burke - £15m, Livermore - £11m, Chadli - £11m, Ideye - £10m, Sturridge - HIGH WAGES, Krychiowiak - HIGH WAGES, plus other players borderline EPL standard such as Ridgewell, Gibbs, Gardner, Sessegnon.

[TheJacko2000]

Moreover, at the time of the sale China was actively encouraging such investment and offering very cheap loans/subsidies etc. for their businessmen/entrepreneurs to get involved.

Then they pulled up the drawbridge. Hardly Jeremy Peace's fault is it?

[GREGMT]

Moreover, at the time of the sale China was actively encouraging such investment and offering very cheap loans/subsidies etc. for their businessmen/entrepreneurs to get involved.

Then they pulled up the drawbridge. Hardly Jeremy Peace's fault is it?

I don't think anyone can assess accurately what Lai had in mind in terms of future spend when he took over from Peace?

All I'll say is that FOSUN v Lai is like comparing Day to Night. 

Surely WBA fans deserve better than what we've been given in terms of ownership?

I never trusted Peace and will always be suspicious of his true motives.

[Standaman]

The seeds for our current predicament were sown under Peace who I absolutely don't blame for taking the money but I do blame for letting smart operating practices fall into disarray after Ashdown left and that was in part down to his own hubris.

Lai made two mistakes. Taking the Pulis era club at face value. In house buying terms it was like buying a nicely appointed property but disregarding the surveyors report that had found some worrying cracks in the basement. The second mistake which followed from the first he paid too much.

Everything else we see today follows on from those two errors. Had Lai been a particularly astute owner we could have made some different decisions and we might have been in a different place, however an astute owner would not have paid £188m for Peace's share of the club.


   

[OhBilics]

The real hero was Ashworth

Very much so. Letting him go to the FA was a huge mistake (I know, you can't make someone stay in their job if they don't want to, but we should have made every possible effort to keep him at Albion, and I doubt penny-pincher did).

[paulosull]

What returns? Ebenezer bought club with clubs money anyone defending this ******** should have no complaints with new owner.

[hardtobeat]

I don't think anyone can assess accurately what Lai had in mind in terms of future spend when he took over from Peace?

All I'll say is that FOSUN v Lai is like comparing Day to Night. 

Surely WBA fans deserve better than what we've been given in terms of ownership?

I never trusted Peace and will always be suspicious of his true motives.

Peace’s true motives are sitting in an offshore bank account somewhere !

[johnny Cash]

Some people are living in a dream world.

It’s as if they think that if peace had dropped his price by 25% we could have had forsun or some other billionaire. Forsun paid roughly 15% of what Peace sold us for. If Peace had started looking for buyers at 15% of our value we really could have got a dangerous chancer.

[TLMS17]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but I’m sure I heard on the E&S podcast (don’t quite me exactly) at start of the season that Lai’s plan was to flip us for a profit after 2/3 years

Obviously going down when we did stopped that happening and then with COVID and the market, along with us now being a newly promoted team he’s not going to make the money he wanted and more than likely going to lose money if he sold us currently

[Standaman]

I don't think anyone can assess accurately what Lai had in mind in terms of future spend when he took over from Peace?

All I'll say is that FOSUN v Lai is like comparing Day to Night. 

Surely WBA fans deserve better than what we've been given in terms of ownership?

I never trusted Peace and will always be suspicious of his true motives.

The motive is profit and what Fosun are doing at Wolves is the same as Peace did at the Albion. They are making money from owning a football club which they have bought because nobody else wanted to buy it for a price that was greater than the one they were offering. They will sell to the next biggest fool to come along Lai in the case of Peace and we don't know who in the case of the Wolves. Meanwhile Fosun are taking more money out of Wolves via agency fees than Peace ever did out of the Albion.

Why do Albion fans or any other group of fans for that matter deserve better?

[baggiejohn]

The seeds for our current predicament were sown under Peace who I absolutely don't blame for taking the money but I do blame for letting smart operating practices fall into disarray after Ashdown left and that was in part down to his own hubris.

Lai made two mistakes. Taking the Pulis era club at face value. In house buying terms it was like buying a nicely appointed property but disregarding the surveyors report that had found some worrying cracks in the basement. The second mistake which followed from the first he paid too much.

Everything else we see today follows on from those two errors. Had Lai been a particularly astute owner we could have made some different decisions and we might have been in a different place, however an astute owner would not have paid £188m for Peace's share of the club.


 

Tell you what I don't get Stan.

You took a lot of trouble a few weeks ago to trawl some data on the acquisition from the Palm website.
Palm has claimed to have contributed around £30 million to the consortium (around 18%, which led you to the £188 million figure).

After the acquisition, there was massive publicity around Palm & the Eco Town projects, to the point where the training ground &  the stadium itself were Palm logo'd.
Lai himself was credited with the success of Palm, which at the time had a market value of around £1.5 billion.

Rightly or wrongly, I had taken that publicity to mean that the future successes of WBA would be linked to the success of Palm.


Given the above background, & the massive publicity given to Palm, I find it strange that they only contributed 18% to the acquisition, & why would the consortium chose someone who had contributed only 18% to lead them.

I've read the statement from Palm, & interpreted it in exactly the same way as you, but for me it creates more questions than answers.

[GREGMT]

The motive is profit and what Fosun are doing at Wolves is the same as Peace did at the Albion. They are making money from owning a football club which they have bought because nobody else wanted to buy it for a price that was greater than the one they were offering. They will sell to the next biggest fool to come along Lai in the case of Peace and we don't know who in the case of the Wolves. Meanwhile Fosun are taking more money out of Wolves via agency fees than Peace ever did out of the Albion.

Why do Albion fans or any other group of fans for that matter deserve better?

Because it's all relative to the size of the club, literally most of the clubs a similar size have been taken over at one point or another by an owner with ambition.  For instance how many clubs did Milan Mandaric take over?  Whether it works in the end is a different matter. 

WBA is too safe and lacking in ambition.  We've got promoted with nothing resembling a Premier League budget.  That's why certain fans were steadfastly behind Bilic.  Managers like Hodgson, Clarke, Pulis were able to feed off the excellent work of Ashworth.  Some Managers better than others.  This time we have been found out big time for lack of ambition.

True fan expectations only come from historical achievements in a glorious past!  The 8 years of EPL stability were an anomoly, a perfect storm where everything went close to 100% right.

[LiamTheBaggie]

All I'll say is that FOSUN v Lai is like comparing Day to Night. 

Fosun and Wolves were being laughed out of town when they appointed Zenga and Lambert and finishing 14th and 15th in the championship. Whilst we were opening the chequebook after what some claimed was our best ever transfer window in the Premier League

You’re using the benefit of hindsight to fuel your argument.

[GREGMT]

Fosun and Wolves were being laughed out of town when they appointed Zenga and Lambert and finishing 14th and 15th in the championship. Whilst we were opening the chequebook after what some claimed was our best ever transfer window in the Premier League

You’re using the benefit of hindsight to fuel your argument.

Once the Dingles were taken over by Fosun, the potential was always there.  Even Steve Morgan had grand plans for them, just that Jez Moxey was a bit poor in the job.  Hurts to say but ever since Jack Hayward took them over they've thrown money at it.

Hand on your heart do you classify Albion as a small club, be honest?

When I was a young boy Albion were close to the top of the tree in Division 1.  Tales of glorious teams from my GrandFather (RIP) and Father, wow this is a team worth supporting. 

If you were there almost exactly 32 years ago v Everton in the FA Cup - 31,000 with thousands locked out.  And that was in 1989 in the lower reaches of Division 2.  The potential was still there, absolutely.

The question of "size of West Bromwich Albion" divides many Throstles fans.  A good barometer is the question are you embarrassed about the size of the West Stand?  My answer is yes, I'm embarrassed.

[tex]

Think fosun vs lai is irrelevant. All I wanted was peace to treat existing shareholders fairly, sell the club to an owner that would grow the company and not over value the asset to a gullible buyer. I think Lai is only guilty of being out of his depth, he tried to back pullis but had a poor management team in place and blew it.
Had we been valued at 100$m we would of had a chance of a sale.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Hand on your heart do you classify Albion as a small club, be honest

If you want my honest opinion, then it’s nothing something that remotely bothers me. The Willy waving contests of who are bigger than who frustrate the life out of me.

I go to watch the Albion, regardless of division, size of stands, players or the incumbent in the managerial seat or custodian of the club.

Whether we’re big, small, medium, massive, infinite - I’m really not bothered. It really doesn’t interest me nor affect my following of the club.

I get far more pleasure out of the good stuff the club and sport brings rather than focusing on trivial contests.

[Albion79]

I think overall Peace did a good job for the club but also made plenty of mistakes along the way (like we all do) and there are similarities between now and then.

He learnt from his mistakes, when we first went up under Megson we were lacking quality and there were soundings of lack of investment, the same second time when we went up but Robson came in and was allowed a couple of loans and freebies and kept us up with the great escape. Next year, again the same thing happened, the difference was in the January we didnt strengthen (if i recall Robson wanted Hasselbaink and Ehigo) and we went down with a whimper.

Peace then began to change the setup, he got Ashworth, he got Mowbray in, we went for young and hungry, and they said they had a shortlist of managers and players for when one needed replacing, thats why we went for Di Matteo. After that Hodgson fell into our lap, a proven manager, looking to prove a point after recently leaving a big club and with a history of doing well at clubs like Albion.

We then went back to the young and upcoming with Clarke, maybe he was sacked too early, but after that the wheels came off, Peace was then in the end game and eventually after the Mel and Irvine appointments he settled on Pulis as he knew that was the best chance to keep us up.

The key time was the Ashworth / Mowbray era, we were brave, had a plan and took a risk, knowing that there would be downsides too (we didnt go up first attempt under Mowbray and were also relegated) but there was a plan and people brought into it, ideally we would be looking to do that now but there are two big differences -

1) Expectations - Because we spent 8 years in the premier league, a lot of fans expectations has changed, as stated two of our three seasons under Mowbray we failed in our objective, we lost in the playoffs and got relegated but as a fan, certainly the first two years of his reign i enjoyed as much as most in my 30 odd years of going, even the premier league had its enjoyable moments. The key thing we didnt sack him when we didnt go up and we wouldnt of when we went down, he chose to walk.

As we have seen with the Darren Moore sacking when 4th in the league and with Bilic being sacked, those days are gone sadly, our fanbase wont be as patient as they were back then.

2) Whatever Peace sold the club for, he was always going to make a big profit, he got involved and helped built the club to a stable premier league club, even with relegations, our cloth was cut, so he was never going to lose money from his own pocket, if we had sold for £50m in the championship or £150m in the premier league, it was still mainly profit for him, of course an extra £100m is nice! But had worse case scenario for him, we had been relegated and not gone up, he would of still made a lot of money, the pressure wasnt off but he wanted the extra £100m and got Pulis to ensure it.

The difference now is we are answering to investors and any investment expects returns, long term plans and visions dont exist when you have taken a big hit on your investment like they did when were relegated, 17th in the premier league every season, thats our clubs aims, keeps the money coming in and increases the value of the club for sale value.

Peace didnt really answer to anyone, Lai answers to the consortium, if they arent getting returns, they want answers, they arent bothering about an attractive team in 5 years time, they want results now. Thats why i dont blame Dowling too much, his boss is Lai and as he has to deliver now, he plays the safe option of buying british, ideally we would be looking abroad and getting value for our money but you cant tell that to the investors when they are asking why we are in the championship, i expect any signings we make in January will be british or played here previous, the way we are run we dont have time for people to settle in, its now now now.

As for who Peace sold too, i think as Jacko said back then chinese football was big, big name players were going there and they were investing in clubs, their leaders wanted to make them a football superpower, within a few years that had changed and now we stuck with each other but Lai did say it would be business as usual, the thing i dont like is when Dowling says one thing about our budget, then we do another, just be honest.

Peace was a businessman and he hit a gold mine getting involved in Albion when he did, as a businessman he would sell for the best price possible, he isnt a billionaire and very few businesses would settle for less to appease their customers (us) it just doesnt work like that as much as we would like to think it would and at the time he sold to investors from the next big football super power, sadly things changed.

Personally i feel the biggest fault Peace did was appoint Pulis because the second we did that we tore up any plan or vision, i dont dislike Pulis, he gets results but you know when you are getting when you appoint him.