[skyclad99]

The real issue was Peace selling to Lai whilst at the same time claiming that he wanted someone who would take the club forward when, actually, it seems clear that he just wanted to get as high a price as he could and nothing else mattered.

Said it on here many times Worcs, well put.

Some even wanted him back!

[BaggieBoy04]

Lai needs to go I wasn't born when we had our dark times many of you mention. I was born the year of the Great Escape 2004. I always supported Albion even before I understood Football so never followed the results. Once I understood the Game I followed us more actively this was all under JP we were in the Prem I remember my dad telling Me about Hodgson being England Manager and remember the Steve Clarke years still didn't understand Football or know many of players. I remember Lukaku and how he was at the time one of the players I liked. I then remember Irvine, Mel and Pulis sadly I got more into Football as Pulis was in Charge. Then in came DM I had hope he revitalized us I thought I to could see a great Escape which didn't happen. Then well now I have seen Slav go loved him he brought Me Enterniament and hope and now I'm seeing a club who my dad supported since 92 and one I have had a connection with being dragged down. I remeber my dad telling me the year before if not a few years before we went down how we were an established PL Club and how we always did well against the Big Boys but terrible against Smaller Teams. Now we are yoyoing being the Premier League and Championship something we always used to do. But with these owners I'm already thinking of League 1 playing Walsall away and walking to the Bescot from my house with someone like Darren Moore back in charge or Nigel Clough and I don't want to think about that but I can see us going that way. So Lai does all over a favour get out of this club and turn the lights off on your way out.

[PartisanBaggie]

Correct on both counts WorcsWBA and Paul 👍🏻

Jeremy Peace...what an utter shyster! At least we’re rid of him. I’m grateful for that at least.

[Baggies]

Fascinating listening to the talk coming out of the Burnley takeover by an American consortium. Richard Garlick (outgoing chairman) has been saying how they will base themselves in the area and the new owner Alan Pace has years of sports management experience, as well as having recently acquired share in two sports data management companies. They won’t have tons of cash, but they will have a bit more than before and crucially they seem to understand football and sports management.

Compare that to “lifelong fan” JP who always said he would only sell the club to the right people. Happy enough to make mega millions selling to a bloke with no knowledge of the club, no interest in its long term future or and experience in football.

We should always remember what JP did to us. A chancer who should be banned from the Hawthorns.

[Mikkyk]

Out of interest, is there anyone on here who thought JP was a solid owner doing the best for us that has since changed their mind?

[tex]

His greed extended to sidelining the minority shareholders, who got nothing. He was a shark who made sure he got everything. The BS about wanting the club in good hands after his ownership was tough to swallow.

[bangkokbaggie]

I never trusted JP and was always convinced that his number one motive was to line his own pockets, not support the club's future and he found the perfect gullible person in Lai that fell for his sales spiel.

[Albionic]

Out of interest, is there anyone on here who thought JP was a solid owner doing the best for us that has since changed their mind?

I'm quite an innocent when it comes to football finance and looking at the club in the round before JP and post JP, it seems there is much to admire him for,
Do I resent him making as much as he could - No,
Do I resent him selling to Lai - Now with hindsight - yes, its not as obviously disastrous (yet) as Dr Xie at Vile park but has the potential to be.
Was he right about a mid championship club, currently looking very much so, based on finances, as a self sufficient entity that seems not too far off, sadly.

So in summary, Yes he was a solid custodian, yes he did bloody well out of it, but he also achieved more than those prior and definitely more than those since.

[leeiswba]

The problem is everyone looks at football differently as if it is something completely different to the real world when unfortunately it is not.

If another team offers a player a 20k wage rise and he leaves then he gets booed and called a traitor but those same people would jump at the offer if another employer offered them a significant wage rise.

The same with Peace; if everyone was offering £160m for arguments sake but the this clown Lai come and offered £200m what do you expect him to accept, id love to see people say they would turn down £40m, it’s easy to say when it’s not your money.

I’m not sticking up for Peace but I doubt he or anybody could see that we would be in this mess that we are in & don’t forget even though it went t*ts up, that first summer Lai was in charge we spent more than we ever did on wages and transfers and everyone on here was saying how fantastic it was and our best ever transfer window.

We would have never broke £100k p/w  under Peace so maybe it was right that Lai intended to do that little bit more, unfortunately like I say it all went wrong on the pitch that season and that’s where the interest was lost.

[overseas baggie]

Peace did a good job for the club (and for himself) in an era when an owner like him could just about survive in the PL.  He knew that he could take us no further. He knew that the club needed an owner with deeper pockets and the ability to inject cash that he didn’t have.

At the time that he sold to Lai, it is quite possible that Lai was in a very different position to where he is now.  Knowing how China works, I am willing to give Lai and Peace the benefit of the doubt.  Lai may well have had all the right intentions but the Chinese situation changed, and I can see why Peace went for it.

None of this helps re the way forward.  Lai can’t afford to sell at a loss, but can’t afford to spend what’s necessary to keep us in the PL.   He really needs to bring in an outside equity investor to help him out.  I can’t see any other way.

[BB74]

Nearly 4 and a half years now GL has been in charge. He certainly kept to his word when he said business as usual. Can’t fault the guy in that regard as he didn’t come in promising Champions League football and silverware.

[overseas baggie]

Nearly 4 and a half years now GL has been in charge. He certainly kept to his word when he said business as usual. Can’t fault the guy in that regard as he didn’t come in promising Champions League football and silverware.

Actually 3 1/2 years but yes - he has always said the club needed to be self-sufficient.

[BB74]

Actually 3 1/2 years but yes - he has always said the club needed to be self-sufficient.

No, four and a half. August 2016.

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover

[WorcsWBA]

Nearly 4 and a half years now GL has been in charge. He certainly kept to his word when he said business as usual. Can’t fault the guy in that regard as he didn’t come in promising Champions League football and silverware.

What he said back in 2016 was "I hope with the effort of all of us, we will get to the top half of the division in the near future. I very much look forward to that". To be fair, he didn't say which division....

[baggie82]

Peace did a good job for the club (and for himself) in an era when an owner like him could just about survive in the PL.  He knew that he could take us no further. He knew that the club needed an owner with deeper pockets and the ability to inject cash that he didn’t have.

At the time that he sold to Lai, it is quite possible that Lai was in a very different position to where he is now.  Knowing how China works, I am willing to give Lai and Peace the benefit of the doubt.  Lai may well have had all the right intentions but the Chinese situation changed, and I can see why Peace went for it.

None of this helps re the way forward.  Lai can’t afford to sell at a loss, but can’t afford to spend what’s necessary to keep us in the PL.   He really needs to bring in an outside equity investor to help him out.  I can’t see any other way.

Incredibly naive. The writing was on the wall from day one. Lai needed to rely on others to help fund the purchase and announced no capital would be invested in the club. JP knew full well what sort of owner we were getting, all he cared about was maximising his return.

[overseas baggie]

No, four and a half. August 2016.

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover

Apologies - you are quite right!

[overseas baggie]

Incredibly naive. The writing was on the wall from day one. Lai needed to rely on others to help fund the purchase and announced no capital would be invested in the club. JP knew full well what sort of owner we were getting, all he cared about was maximising his return.

No - not “incredibly naive”.  Lai was the front man for a small consortium.  The financial demands needed to survive in the PL are far higher than they were in 2016.  Peace had just overseen 7 or 8 seasons in the PL at that stage.

[tommcneill]

Put it this way...

I preferred the journey under JP than I have at any time under Lai.

[Standaman]

The economic reality is that you are going to be disappointed with the ownership and while I am certain there might be better owners out there than Lai I am equally certain that there are worse available.

The reality is that unless your club has the resources (from it's own operations or through owner subsidy) to routinely finish in the top half of the Premier League you have a problem. It is called relegation which is possible for any club that is going to routinely finish in the bottom half. The economic consequences of relegation are well documented and typically will halve the assest value of the club. It is worse than that because the Championship is an economic hell where lost souls are tortured for an eternity for the mistakes they made in their Premier League Lives. Self sustainability is hugely difficult in the Championship and is very much part of the dysfunctionality that seems embedded in the way football runs itself as a whole.

Is any owner likely to subsidise the club to that extent? Moshiri has spent £400m plus £200m on his original stake in Everton to achieve that and that was starting from a higher base than ourselves.  The club has committed to spending £500m on a new state of the art stadium. Once that is done do they get a seat in the big 6 table  and if so at whose expense? I suspect they won't. Yes, a top half finish most years and the fear of relegation is probably banished and maybe that is worth £1bn. Or maybe it isn't because a European Super League happens without them. 

There is no white knight out there. Spending a bit more does not cut it. Most of the teams that are routinely finishing in the bottom half are hoping for the White Knight owner before relegation sinks them. Don't spin me your fantasies of a bigger stadium. The new work permit regulations make a player trading model difficult the only way out is youth development and few turn that particular trick.

I have never been more depressed by the footballing landscape and whether Lai or somebody else is in charge at the Albion makes very little difference.

 

[overseas baggie]

The economic reality is that you are going to be disappointed with the ownership and while I am certain there might be better owners out there than Lai I am equally certain that there are worse available.

The reality is that unless your club has the resources (from it's own operations or through owner subsidy) to routinely finish in the top half of the Premier League you have a problem. It is called relegation which is possible for any club that is going to routinely finish in the bottom half. The economic consequences of relegation are well documented and typically will halve the assest value of the club. It is worse than that because the Championship is an economic hell where lost souls are tortured for an eternity for the mistakes they made in their Premier League Lives. Self sustainability is hugely difficult in the Championship and is very much part of the dysfunctionality that seems embedded in the way football runs itself as a whole.

Is any owner likely to subsidise the club to that extent? Moshiri has spent £400m plus £200m on his original stake in Everton to achieve that and that was starting from a higher base than ourselves.  The club has committed to spending £500m on a new state of the art stadium. Once that is done do they get a seat in the big 6 table  and if so at whose expense? I suspect they won't. Yes, a top half finish most years and the fear of relegation is probably banished and maybe that is worth £1bn. Or maybe it isn't because a European Super League happens without them. 

There is no white knight out there. Spending a bit more does not cut it. Most of the teams that are routinely finishing in the bottom half are hoping for the White Knight owner before relegation sinks them. Don't spin me your fantasies of a bigger stadium. The new work permit regulations make a player trading model difficult the only way out is youth development and few turn that particular trick.

I have never been more depressed by the footballing landscape and whether Lai or somebody else is in charge at the Albion makes very little difference.

An extremely good summary of the reality of the Premier League today. 

Spot in re the risk of relegation.  Only about 8 clubs are truly “safe”.  It could easily be West Ham, Southampton or Villa in a relegation dogfight next season.

Seeing that an 84% stake in Burnley has just been bought for apparently close to £175m (valuing the club at around £200m), given their current league position, and given their similarity to us in many respects, do you think that the value already reflects the risk of relegation (in view of the risks that you point out for half the PL clubs) or do you think they are overpaying? 

[johnny Cash]

The economic reality is that you are going to be disappointed with the ownership and while I am certain there might be better owners out there than Lai I am equally certain that there are worse available.

The reality is that unless your club has the resources (from it's own operations or through owner subsidy) to routinely finish in the top half of the Premier League you have a problem. It is called relegation which is possible for any club that is going to routinely finish in the bottom half. The economic consequences of relegation are well documented and typically will halve the assest value of the club. It is worse than that because the Championship is an economic hell where lost souls are tortured for an eternity for the mistakes they made in their Premier League Lives. Self sustainability is hugely difficult in the Championship and is very much part of the dysfunctionality that seems embedded in the way football runs itself as a whole.

Is any owner likely to subsidise the club to that extent? Moshiri has spent £400m plus £200m on his original stake in Everton to achieve that and that was starting from a higher base than ourselves.  The club has committed to spending £500m on a new state of the art stadium. Once that is done do they get a seat in the big 6 table  and if so at whose expense? I suspect they won't. Yes, a top half finish most years and the fear of relegation is probably banished and maybe that is worth £1bn. Or maybe it isn't because a European Super League happens without them. 

There is no white knight out there. Spending a bit more does not cut it. Most of the teams that are routinely finishing in the bottom half are hoping for the White Knight owner before relegation sinks them. Don't spin me your fantasies of a bigger stadium. The new work permit regulations make a player trading model difficult the only way out is youth development and few turn that particular trick.

I have never been more depressed by the footballing landscape and whether Lai or somebody else is in charge at the Albion makes very little difference.

Stan, completely hypothetical and impossible question but I’ll ask anyway....

Do you think with capitalism and consumerism that for a sport as popular as football that this has been inevitable all along.

If we could take the clock back 150 years even with some great promises is there some sense of animal farm to it all in that we would likely end up here anyway. Sooner or later. Perhaps with a different set of clubs at top but with things fundamentally getting to this sort of stage in the end anyway.

Without a draft type system, which our education system or the basis of our league pyramid couldn’t support, I’m so think there’s some inevitability about this all personally and  that if you are ‘unfortunate’ enough to support someone outside the big 6, like we are, then most of us have very little choice but to generally accept how it is.

[Standaman]

Alan Pace was CEO of Lehman Brothers although he did leave 2 years before they went bankrupt. Is it possible that a master of the Universe has paid too much for an English football club? Hell, yes. In point of fact he has paid way too much Burnley might be "worth" £200m in the Premier League although you probably need to spend pretty much every penny it earns to keep them there (how do you extract value from the proposition still nobody has ever responded to that question with a sensible answer)  but they are absolutely not worth that as a Championship club.

It is disappointing in the sense that the price reinforces the going rate for a lesser Premier League club with little or no development potential at £200m and therefore possibly entrenches Lai's perception of our value thus extending the current rather unhappy marriage.

[Standaman]

Stan, completely hypothetical and impossible question but I’ll ask anyway....

Do you think with capitalism and consumerism that for a sport as popular as football that this has been inevitable all along.

If we could take the clock back 150 years even with some great promises is there some sense of animal farm to it all in that we would likely end up here anyway. Sooner or later. Perhaps with a different set of clubs at top but with things fundamentally getting to this sort of stage in the end anyway.

Without a draft type system, which our education system or the basis of our league pyramid couldn’t support, I’m so think there’s some inevitability about this all personally and  that if you are ‘unfortunate’ enough to support someone outside the big 6, like we are, then most of us have very little choice but to generally accept how it is.

In short yes. Under capitalism there is always a tendency toward monopoly and without intervention all markets are dominated by one or two major players. Obviously sport doesn't quite work like that and for it exist as a spectacle there needs to be competition and that competition needs to be broadly based to maximise it's reach.

The irony of course the country which has the most laissez-faire economic system the US has the most competitive sports leagues. The leagues be they NFL,NBA, NHL,MLB or MLS are monopolies if they compete at all it is with each other. To compete they need spectacle drama and they need to keep the notion of "on any given day" alive. To do this there lots of checks and balance to stop the stronger franchises gaining a stranglehold on the league. What tends to happen is that the bigger franchises are more profitable and that profit goes to the owners in dividends and increased valuations but does not get out on the pitch in a way that does in European football.

I don't think the current state affairs is sustainable and ultimately if there is European Super League it will look a lot like the NFL.

[ex coseley kid]

Ebenezer screwed this club from day one and like the Donald across the pond was only interested in number 1. Sold us to a skint Billionaire the so called boyhood Baggies fan

Peace = Judas

[baggie82]

No - not “incredibly naive”.  Lai was the front man for a small consortium.  The financial demands needed to survive in the PL are far higher than they were in 2016.  Peace had just overseen 7 or 8 seasons in the PL at that stage.

JP was only interested in maximising his return. If you think otherwise your deluding yourself. I don’t know why your referencing the finance needed to compete at this level, Lai has no cash, has never put any cash into the club and said from day one the club would have to be self sufficient. Kind of provides the point that JP was only interested in maximising the sale price and that the sale to Lai was a sideways step. JP’s talk of selling us onto an owner to take us to the next level was hollow. He could have pitched the club at a discount to FOSUN who were sniffing but he didn’t have any willingness to limit his return for the good of the club.