[baggie82]

Okay so that means that we haven't had a splurge in the transfer market with lot's of marque signings

A splurge? We're still waiting for a drip.

[baggie82]

Money leaving China isn't an issue as Lai isn't investing any money into the club. Our only revenue is what we generate through TV, commercial, tickets, club shop etc. Hence we're small time in attitude and action.

[Standaman]

Getting back to Guochuan Lai.

I'm not an expert in Chinese affairs, but I understand that the President has scaled down the amount of cash that is allowed to leave China.

When TP & JW visited China Lai had allegedly allocated £40 million for transfer funds. I assume that this is £40 million in addition to the cash generated by WBAFC.

Just wondering if the £40 million is now no longer available.

Can any "Chinese" specialists help?

£40m is within the club's locally generated resources. There has never been any suggestion that additional funds were coming from China. The one possible exception is the Zhang deal and it will be interesting to see how that was funded.

The thing that people need to understand is this that while the Chinese economy looks like a rapidly growing capitalist one that has thrown up dozens of billionaires almost overnight unlike their Western counterparts they are only tolerated by the regime in that they are towing the party line and making a positive contribution to the States aims.

It is incredibly nuanced. The Party Leader Xi Jinping signaled that Football was one of the states priorities. What he didn't do was state exactly how this was going to be delivered. This has generated a lot of activity in the Chinese business community  from Chinese clubs buying overseas talent to investing in European clubs in an attempt to get aboard the football band wagon. Frankly it got out of hand and the Chinese authorities have basically pulled the plug on the CSL and new overseas investments.

The Lai takeover couldn't happen today. How much control the state will exercise remains to be seen but in extreme cases can and will force Chinese Companies to sell overseas assets. If one of the overseas clubs is too heavy drain on resources they will get chopped off pretty quickly.

Lai's approach seems pretty shrewd. The football academy model will generate results that the state wants e.g. China to progress as an International football nation. It will generate long term gains for the club in China but what it won't do is fund additional transfers in the here and now.

Sorry but this was very obvious from the word go and fans cannot be surprised or disappointed at the outcome.

[Adder]

Good post Standaman.
So we may just be in a more stable sustainable position with Lai than some other clubs are with their owners.

[WBAinDEVON]

the longer we stay in the greed league the more our expectations will grow. its time to kick on and compete if you want to keep a few interested especilally the ones that live miles away

[Standaman]

Good post Standaman.
So we may just be in a more stable sustainable position with Lai than some other clubs are with their owners.

Yes but one thing I would add that Chinese business entities are complex and opaque by western standards. I saw a schematic of the business networks behind Fosun (I think) who own Wolves and it made my head hurt. So for instance if they have substantial cash generative businesses outside China the money can keep flowing, if they aren't dependent on bank finance (and therefore monetary authority approval) again they have more scope but ultimately when the Chinese state says jump the question is how high?

The thing is from our point of view the casual observer there are influences in the internal politics of China which are from obvious that could have a direct consequences on the club's future. The more self sustaining we are the better the more reliant we are on funds from China the more vulnerable we are to arbitrary changes to Chinese policy on football overseas investment and monetary control.   

Personally I welcomed the takeover because it at least ended the Peace era that had run out of steam but I have never been under any illusions that there are issues with Chinese ownership and self sustaining ownership and the current model we have a the club. 

[paulosull]

Trade war with America and China could disrupt Chinese business's abroad in near future

[WBAinDEVON]

just had to tell one of my customers today his welding wire is going up by £5.00 per 15kg reel on his next purchase. guess where it comes from.Bloody Brexit .
have a word will you Mr Lai

[FallOutBoy]

Getting back to Guochuan Lai.

I'm not an expert in Chinese affairs, but I understand that the President has scaled down the amount of cash that is allowed to leave China.

When TP & JW visited China Lai had allegedly allocated £40 million for transfer funds. I assume that this is £40 million in addition to the cash generated by WBAFC.

Just wondering if the £40 million is now no longer available.

Can any "Chinese" specialists help?

Not a Chinese expert, but...

Last seasons earnings = £120 million (approximately)

Albion wage bill = £75 million (approx)

Remainder = £45 million (again, approx)

I would expect that £40 million budget was simply what we've earned being reinvested.

[baggiejohn]

Yes but one thing I would add that Chinese business entities are complex and opaque by western standards. I saw a schematic of the business networks behind Fosun (I think) who own Wolves and it made my head hurt. So for instance if they have substantial cash generative businesses outside China the money can keep flowing, if they aren't dependent on bank finance (and therefore monetary authority approval) again they have more scope but ultimately when the Chinese state says jump the question is how high?

The thing is from our point of view the casual observer there are influences in the internal politics of China which are from obvious that could have a direct consequences on the club's future. The more self sustaining we are the better the more reliant we are on funds from China the more vulnerable we are to arbitrary changes to Chinese policy on football overseas investment and monetary control.   

Personally I welcomed the takeover because it at least ended the Peace era that had run out of steam but I have never been under any illusions that there are issues with Chinese ownership and self sustaining ownership and the current model we have a the club.

Thanks for clearing that up Stan, have to say, running WBAFC as an independent entity does make sense, at least we won't be saddled with external debt if Lai decides to move on.

[The Tank]

just had to tell one of my customers today his welding wire is going up by £5.00 per 15kg reel on his next purchase. guess where it comes from.Bloody Brexit .
have a word will you Mr Lai

Welding 
I thought it was all farming and f fox hunting down there.

[Albionic]

Interestingly Northampton have today announced a major investment from Chinese consortium, seems to fly in the face of the "block" on investment xcenario
Investors are from Guangzhou same part of china as Palm

[royhan]

The huge number of empty seats in Sunderland's first home match tonight should serve as a timely reminder to Mr Lai that unless he digs deep in the next few weeks the picture will be very similar at The Hawthorns next season.

[baggie38]

The huge number of empty seats in Sunderland's first home match tonight should serve as a timely reminder to Mr Lai that unless he digs deep in the next few weeks the picture will be very similar at The Hawthorns next season.

It wont though. It should but it wont. What people should do instead or alongside their moaning is refuse to go to games and refuse to buy merchandise. That way a clear message is sent to Lai and the board. Ive seen it to much over the years when people moan to their hearts content but in the same breath talk about how they have brought this years kit and have a season ticket they are waiting on. I love this club no different to anyone else i can gurantee you of that but i now pick and choose my matches as opposed to putting so much money down on a season ticket. Infact these days i would much rather watch the game in a pub. The premier league sadly brings alot of people to the games these days who arent there to watch the Albion and it kills the atmosphere. I remember the days when the Smethwick used to absolutley bounce. Its nowhere near as good these days. Im a firm believer in voting with your wallet if you dont like how things are done then dont go and either force change by not paying your money or just wait for things to change.

[kirk]

It wont though. It should but it wont. What people should do instead or alongside their moaning is refuse to go to games and refuse to buy merchandise. That way a clear message is sent to Lai and the board. Ive seen it to much over the years when people moan to their hearts content but in the same breath talk about how they have brought this years kit and have a season ticket they are waiting on. I love this club no different to anyone else i can gurantee you of that but i now pick and choose my matches as opposed to putting so much money down on a season ticket. Infact these days i would much rather watch the game in a pub. The premier league sadly brings alot of people to the games these days who arent there to watch the Albion and it kills the atmosphere. I remember the days when the Smethwick used to absolutley bounce. Its nowhere near as good these days. Im a firm believer in voting with your wallet if you dont like how things are done then dont go and either force change by not paying your money or just wait for things to change.

Totally agree, I used to go home and away, over 20 odd years season ticket holder including the grim 90s, I stopped renewing after the home kit/ Irvine joke. Last season went 1 away about 6 home ..... looking at the farce of this years transfer activity it may be less this year.

[baggie38]

Totally agree, I used to go home and away, over 20 odd years season ticket holder including the grim 90s, I stopped renewing after the home kit/ Irvine joke. Last season went 1 away about 6 home ..... looking at the farce of this years transfer activity it may be less this year.

I just think football is getting out of hand with costs etc and with the way people moan about the club then choose to keep investing into it i think people need to stop moaning and start voting with their wallets.

[Jimmy]

Its clear the club was sold to secure a healthy profit for Jeremy.

The idea that the club will move forward under Lai is looking increasingly unlikely.

[johnny Cash]

Its clear the club was sold to secure a healthy profit for Jeremy.

The idea that the club will move forward under Lai is looking increasingly unlikely.

If £40-£50m is available then we can't blame Lai.

It's those in charge of transfers and Pulis that should be blamed at present.

[BAGGIE5]

If £40-£50m is available then we can't blame Lai.

It's those in charge of transfers and Pulis that should be blamed at present.

Sorry but that amount is no where near enough for the amount of good players we need now.

That amount is good for an average summer of topping up.

[Droitwich Baggie]

If he wants a decent return on his money, he needs to invest in the future by getting the players in.

[graka]

Peace used us to get rich or should I say richer without investing any of his own money and it looks like lai is going to do the same using the premiership label
While the fans suffer another year being served up utter dross on the pitch

[stoxman]

At risk of defending the club and those that work there:


• I'm prepared to believe that Pulis, Williams, Garlick, Hammond etc know more about football than me and most people on here.  Some might say they are clueless but in all honesty, they're probably not.  They live football all day every day and are surrounded by football people and have an insight behind the scenes into how a club is actually run, how deals are actually done, how agents actually work etc rather than just our assumptions or what we read in the press.
  
I believe that they've actually got more at stake than me.  If Albion fail in some way, I'll be sad. They can lose their reputations, jobs or even careers.  Some people then find it really hard getting back into football once they are out (as Sir Gary has shown...) Therefore Albion's success probably matters more to them than to us in some ways even if they aren't fans

• They know all of the things we know. They know it would be better to get players in at the start of pre-season training rather than after the season starts. They know that we've a thin and aging squad etc.  I can't believe that the things we all debate on here haven't been discussed for months and months in the club.
  
  I'm left with the conclusion that it is mostly external forces rather than the club itself that is to blame.  If TP is our manager and honestly believes that we should wait for Gibson or Smalling and the club has quickly and efficiently tried its very best to get those players with a commercial offer and been told "No, we won't sell them until later in the window when we've got replacements lined up", the best thing to do is probably wait.   As frustrating as it is to all of us, I'd actually rather keep our powder dry rather than go a buy the 7th choice who is available but injury prone/ poor attitude /inconsistent/ doesn't fit with our style of play.   
  
  

[The Joust]

At risk of defending the club and those that work there:


• I'm prepared to believe that Pulis, Williams, Garlick, Hammond etc know more about football than me and most people on here.  Some might say they are clueless but in all honesty, they're probably not.  They live football all day every day and are surrounded by football people and have an insight behind the scenes into how a club is actually run, how deals are actually done, how agents actually work etc rather than just our assumptions or what we read in the press.
  
I believe that they've actually got more at stake than me.  If Albion fail in some way, I'll be sad. They can lose their reputations, jobs or even careers.  Some people then find it really hard getting back into football once they are out (as Sir Gary has shown...) Therefore Albion's success probably matters more to them than to us in some ways even if they aren't fans

• They know all of the things we know. They know it would be better to get players in at the start of pre-season training rather than after the season starts. They know that we've a thin and aging squad etc.  I can't believe that the things we all debate on here haven't been discussed for months and months in the club.
  
  I'm left with the conclusion that it is mostly external forces rather than the club itself that is to blame.  If TP is our manager and honestly believes that we should wait for Gibson or Smalling and the club has quickly and efficiently tried its very best to get those players with a commercial offer and been told "No, we won't sell them until later in the window when we've got replacements lined up", the best thing to do is probably wait.   As frustrating as it is to all of us, I'd actually rather keep our powder dry rather than go a buy the 7th choice who is available but injury prone/ poor attitude /inconsistent/ doesn't fit with our style of play.   
  
  

Good post sir

[iwastherein68]

At risk of defending the club and those that work there:


• I'm prepared to believe that Pulis, Williams, Garlick, Hammond etc know more about football than me and most people on here.  Some might say they are clueless but in all honesty, they're probably not.  They live football all day every day and are surrounded by football people and have an insight behind the scenes into how a club is actually run, how deals are actually done, how agents actually work etc rather than just our assumptions or what we read in the press.
  
I believe that they've actually got more at stake than me.  If Albion fail in some way, I'll be sad. They can lose their reputations, jobs or even careers.  Some people then find it really hard getting back into football once they are out (as Sir Gary has shown...) Therefore Albion's success probably matters more to them than to us in some ways even if they aren't fans

• They know all of the things we know. They know it would be better to get players in at the start of pre-season training rather than after the season starts. They know that we've a thin and aging squad etc.  I can't believe that the things we all debate on here haven't been discussed for months and months in the club.
  
  I'm left with the conclusion that it is mostly external forces rather than the club itself that is to blame.  If TP is our manager and honestly believes that we should wait for Gibson or Smalling and the club has quickly and efficiently tried its very best to get those players with a commercial offer and been told "No, we won't sell them until later in the window when we've got replacements lined up", the best thing to do is probably wait.   As frustrating as it is to all of us, I'd actually rather keep our powder dry rather than go a buy the 7th choice who is available but injury prone/ poor attitude /inconsistent/ doesn't fit with our style of play.   
  
  

Nice one Stoxman, very sensible stance

[TheJacko2000]

• At risk of defending the club and those that work there:
  
  
  • I'm prepared to believe that Pulis, Williams, Garlick, Hammond etc know more about football than me and most people on here.  Some might say they are clueless but in all honesty, they're probably not.  They live football all day every day and are surrounded by football people and have an insight behind the scenes into how a club is actually run, how deals are actually done, how agents actually work etc rather than just our assumptions or what we read in the press.
  I believe that they've actually got more at stake than me.  If Albion fail in some way, I'll be sad. They can lose their reputations, jobs or even careers.  Some people then find it really hard getting back into football once they are out (as Sir Gary has shown...) Therefore Albion's success probably matters more to them than to us in some ways even if they aren't fans
  
  • They know all of the things we know. They know it would be better to get players in at the start of pre-season training rather than after the season starts. They know that we've a thin and aging squad etc.  I can't believe that the things we all debate on here haven't been discussed for months and months in the club.
    
    I'm left with the conclusion that it is mostly external forces rather than the club itself that is to blame.  If TP is our manager and honestly believes that we should wait for Gibson or Smalling and the club has quickly and efficiently tried its very best to get those players with a commercial offer and been told "No, we won't sell them until later in the window when we've got replacements lined up", the best thing to do is probably wait.   As frustrating as it is to all of us, I'd actually rather keep our powder dry rather than go a buy the 7th choice who is available but injury prone/ poor attitude /inconsistent/ doesn't fit with our style of play.   
    

Come on mate, you don't honestly believe all that b0ll0cks do you?


The powers that be want to run this club into the ground ruining our reputation in the process and getting us relegated on the cheap. Get with the program mate...