[TheBrom]

100% agree the money's gone on buying the club. Which is why we need our scouting etc more than ever

How did they afford the Rodriguez, Livermore, Chinese bloke and Hegazi signings then?

[Standaman]

I am amazed that it has taken 12 months for the penny to drop because everything that was said at the outset suggested that Lai wasn't going to run the club at a loss.

What has emerged is the new ownership's angle is to use the English academy model as a means of tapping into the  Chinese football boom. This is smart as the Chinese authorities are mainly concerned with national prestige through the National team. While turbo charging their domestic league might kick start this process it is a dubious way for the nation to progress as a footballing force and the fact that the this particular gold rush has been closed down by the Goverment levying a prohibitive surcharge on foreign transfers to the league.

Equally Chinese investment in overseas clubs again might peddle influence and add to the owners prestige it does very little to enhance the Chinese football project unless there is a transfer of know-how from the European clubs to China. What seemed to be a flood of Chinese money coming into the game last year now has become much more of a trickle and if the Chinese owners need additional funds to prop up their new purchases it will be interesting to see if they can get state approval for those investments.

Albion seem to be the only club that is actively making some sort of attempt at a knowledge transfer, whether this pays dividends in the long term remains to be seen.

Lai does need to keep the club in the Premier League but for his ambitions to truly come to fruition we need to bring players through the academy.

I don't think for a minute that Lai is going to invest directly in the team but further down the track I wouldn't be surprised to see the Hawthorns and it's surrounds being part of a property development project because that's what the ownership does.

[adamw1109]

100% agree the money's gone on buying the club. Which is why we need our scouting etc more than ever

We have made signings after the club was purchased... so 100% not true.

Atleast give the transfer window chance to close before judging how much we have spent.

The people on here moaning about the lack of spending would be the same people if we did a villa... spend boat loads on a lot of over priced rubbish and end up a mid table championship club.

Slow and steady wins the race 

[paulosull]

What was the incentive for this Chinese owner who if we are to believed is a billionaire to buy club, seems reluctant to invest fund's into club if the 2 Windows are anything to go by. As things stand we have a good chance of being relegated this season and where is his investment then or lack of?

[Hunnington Baggie]

What was the incentive for this Chinese owner who if we are to believed is a billionaire to buy club, seems reluctant to invest fund's into club if the 2 Windows are anything to go by. As things stand we have a good chance of being relegated this season and where is his investment then or lack of?

we have a good chance of being relegated any season. throwing money at it doesn't make the chance lower. no striker is guaranteed to score more goals because of the price tag attached to them (in some/many cases they can't handle that expectation and perform worse) and that is similar throughout the positions.

This is just an exercise in d##k measuring, fans feel inadequate because the other clubs are throwing money on players (we don't know yet if they'll be better or worse than what they had) and they want the owner to spend lots of money so they feel like they are part of the group. I know this because EVERY FORUM IS DOES THIS. Most teams this summer are having this exact same conversation as they think they are being outspent and have to throw huge amounts of money (someone else's money might I add) in order to keep up.

[baggie82]

We have made signings after the club was purchased... so 100% not true.

Last season our net transfer spend was a circa £9.5m once the Chester & Berahino sales are taken account of. So far this season with have spent £13m on Rodriguez and Hegazi. We have also removed Gardner, Olson & Fletcher from the wage bill. Meanwhile our TV / media income has massively increased. Under Peace we banked net profits of £14m and £7m in 2015 and 2016. So of course we have £40/50m to spend on players within the existing income. Just like every other club we have more to throw around but the owners aren't putting anything in.

[adamw1109]

Last season our net transfer spend was a circa £9.5m once the Chester & Berahino sales are taken account of. So far this season with have spent £13m on Rodriguez and Hegazi. We have also removed Gardner, Olson & Fletcher from the wage bill. Meanwhile our TV / media income has massively increased. Under Peace we banked net profits of £14m and £7m in 2015 and 2016. So of course we have £40/50m to spend on players within the existing income. Just like every other club we have more to throw around but the owners aren't putting anything in.

Like i said in my post (the part you ignored), Atleast give the transfer window chance to close before judging how much we have spent.

Don't see why people assume/expect or think we need to spend millions... when it doesn't always work.

Just the midlands alone we have 3 clubs with newish owners, ourselves... villa and wolves.

1 of them is run by a smart businessman, 2 of them are run by rich clueless businessmen with more money than sense/football knowledge.... 1 is a prem team the other 2 are currently mid table championship teams. (I'll let you try and work our which ones are which)

Id much rather see us spending wisely and improving our squad gradually than see our owners blow shed loads of money on over priced average players that make don't difference just so we can say we spent X amount of £.

[caravanc58]

But it was also wonderful to go over to the mainland and see for ourselves Mr Lai’s projects close-up. He has got a lot of exciting plans and it was good for us to see them at first hand.”

Tones words about the Hong Kong trip, not that bothered what's going on over there am more interested in what exciting plans Lai has for B71 4LF

[baggiejohn]

I am amazed that it has taken 12 months for the penny to drop because everything that was said at the outset suggested that Lai wasn't going to run the club at a loss.

What has emerged is the new ownership's angle is to use the English academy model as a means of tapping into the  Chinese football boom. This is smart as the Chinese authorities are mainly concerned with national prestige through the National team. While turbo charging their domestic league might kick start this process it is a dubious way for the nation to progress as a footballing force and the fact that the this particular gold rush has been closed down by the Goverment levying a prohibitive surcharge on foreign transfers to the league.

Equally Chinese investment in overseas clubs again might peddle influence and add to the owners prestige it does very little to enhance the Chinese football project unless there is a transfer of know-how from the European clubs to China. What seemed to be a flood of Chinese money coming into the game last year now has become much more of a trickle and if the Chinese owners need additional funds to prop up their new purchases it will be interesting to see if they can get state approval for those investments.

Albion seem to be the only club that is actively making some sort of attempt at a knowledge transfer, whether this pays dividends in the long term remains to be seen.

Lai does need to keep the club in the Premier League but for his ambitions to truly come to fruition we need to bring players through the academy.

I don't think for a minute that Lai is going to invest directly in the team but further down the track I wouldn't be surprised to see the Hawthorns and it's surrounds being part of a property development project because that's what the ownership does.

I agree with most of what you say Stan, but I would imagine our performance in Hong Kong would have been embarrassing for Lai & I think he will invest directly in the team.
I think he will want us to be more attractive, bear in mind that the Palm project is backed to circa £2,8 billion, can't see him putting that at risk.
Pretty sure he can workaround the FFP regulations by injecting more equity into the club.

[baggiejohn]

But it was also wonderful to go over to the mainland and see for ourselves Mr Lai’s projects close-up. He has got a lot of exciting plans and it was good for us to see them at first hand.”

Tones words about the Hong Kong trip, not that bothered what's going on over there am more interested in what exciting plans Lai has for B71 4LF

Sums it up for me, if he can't see that one depends on the other, we're in trouble

[stoxman]

My central assumption remains that Mr Lai will adopt the same principle as JP and simply invest, on average, the club's free cash.  The spending on Lai is almost certain, on average, to be higher than JP because the free cash is much higher following the new sky deal.  That's nothing to do with him being richer/more ambitious/more generous.  He will just have more to play with.  We made many record signings under JP but no one is saying that this was because he was more benevelant than Silk. It's just that all the numbers have got bigger.  It may well be that also spends 1.5x more than JP; if so it will be because of the club having a greater p&l rather than Lai personally.

As I said at the time of the takeover, we really should separate Mr Lai's apparent personal (or corporate backed) wealth from what he's going to invest in Albion.  Speaking from my own personal experience, I've bought dozens of businesses and have the resources to pour money in to them but never do.  They are investments viewed dispassionately and entirely separate from how I view cars, houses et al that I may buy personally.   

I may be proved wrong.  I hope I am and that Mr Lai really does want to put personal wealth onto the pitch. However, the balance of probabilities are against it.  There are plenty of other wealthy owners in football who could easily chuck £100m at players without in anyway damaging their own lifestyle.  There are billionaire owners of Championship clubs who could probably guarantee Premiership promotion with only 10% of their wealth "invested".  Steve Lansdown at Bristol City and Shaid Khan at Fulham are two that sprin to mind.  Many of these are genuine lifelong fans of their clubs but still they won't do it.  Why should we believe that someone who'd never seen an Albion match two years ago behave so differently? 

[baggiejohn]

I think he'll invest what needs to be invested to give us the best chance to get a top ten place & to compete in the domestic cup competitions.
I imagine he will have taken advice from WBA board & possibly JP on what that figure is likely to be.

I also think he will want to demonstrate that academy players can be developed to play at the highest level, TP's statement above suggests that they are at odds on that issue.

[geoff]

I agree with most of what you say Stan, but I would imagine our performance in Hong Kong would have been embarrassing for Lai & I think he will invest directly in the team.
I think he will want us to be more attractive, bear in mind that the Palm project is backed to circa £2,8 billion, can't see him putting that at risk.
Pretty sure he can workaround the FFP regulations by injecting more equity into the club.

In a earlier post & said it would be good to get as many new signings on board for this competition  to showcase both us & Mr Lai, but we all know how that turned out.

[baggie82]

Lai relied on a third party investment fund to raise the capital to buy the club. The purchase was funded as follows:

59% Lai (personal investment)
23% Yunyi investment (private equity fund)
18% Palm ecotown development (company he sold his shares in in 2014)
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover/

The OS statement said that Lai had at least enough personal wealth to match his investment so he probably has another circa £100m to live on but you can't invest in a football club with that, less than two Kyle Walkers.

The club appears to have been sold for between £150m-£200m, taking the mid point of £175m would leave Palm with a £31.5m investment. No doubt they want to make a profit long term but they aren't going to throw money at it, only minor shareholder. Their accounts as well only showed a £7m profit in 2015, although they have a market company value of £1.65bn currently (but you have to sceptical of company valuations on the Chinese stock exchange). It will be interesting to see what they have paid for the shirt sponsorship but FFP rules kick in if it's a back door investment.

All the evidence / statements to date are consistent that the club continues to be run within existing income streams as it always has been. Nothing to suggest any external investment from the consortium of owners.

[baggiejohn]

Lai relied on a third party investment fund to raise the capital to buy the club. The purchase was funded as follows:

59% Lai (personal investment)
23% Yunyi investment (private equity fund)
18% Palm ecotown development (company he sold his shares in in 2014)
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover/

The OS statement said that Lai had at least enough personal wealth to match his investment so he probably has another circa £100m to live on but you can't invest in a football club with that, less than two Kyle Walkers.

The club appears to have been sold for between £150m-£200m, taking the mid point of £175m would leave Palm with a £31.5m investment. No doubt they want to make a profit long term but they aren't going to throw money at it, only minor shareholder. Their accounts as well only showed a £7m profit in 2015, although they have a market company value of £1.65bn currently (but you have to sceptical of company valuations on the Chinese stock exchange). It will be interesting to see what they have paid for the shirt sponsorship but FFP rules kick in if it's a back door investment.

All the evidence / statements to date are consistent that the club continues to be run within existing income streams as it always has been. Nothing to suggest any external investment from the consortium of owners.

I agree, but IMO we're about two players short of a team that can regularly command a top ten place in the Premier League. (Somebody to boss the midfield & a goalscorer).
I'm not saying we'll throw megga bucks at it, but if we're a couple of bob short, I think GL could well have enough to make up the difference.

[paulosull]

Lai relied on a third party investment fund to raise the capital to buy the club. The purchase was funded as follows:

59% Lai (personal investment)
23% Yunyi investment (private equity fund)
18% Palm ecotown development (company he sold his shares in in 2014)
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover/

The OS statement said that Lai had at least enough personal wealth to match his investment so he probably has another circa £100m to live on but you can't invest in a football club with that, less than two Kyle Walkers.

The club appears to have been sold for between £150m-£200m, taking the mid point of £175m would leave Palm with a £31.5m investment. No doubt they want to make a profit long term but they aren't going to throw money at it, only minor shareholder. Their accounts as well only showed a £7m profit in 2015, although they have a market company value of £1.65bn currently (but you have to sceptical of company valuations on the Chinese stock exchange). It will be interesting to see what they have paid for the shirt sponsorship but FFP rules kick in if it's a back door investment.

All the evidence / statements to date are consistent that the club continues to be run within existing income streams as it always has been. Nothing to suggest any external investment from the consortium of owners.

reported in press that this bloke was a billionaire?

[WBAinDEVON]

reported in press that this bloke was a billionaire?

and richer than the Dr. two sixpences spring to mind

[Fritzl Palace]

Sadly the only person to have gained from the takeover was our Jeremy. The club is no better off for it, the transfer budget hasn't increased significantly because of it. As far as we are concerned, it may as well have never happened.

[Topman]

Sadly the only person to have gained from the takeover was our Jeremy. The club is no better off for it, the transfer budget hasn't increased significantly because of it. As far as we are concerned, it may as well have never happened.

I think we have to wait a few years to see if this is true. We have to see what thier long term plans are. Our takeover seems more of a slow burner than others. At the moment for me it's let's wait and see

[SirTonyM]

While Lai is unlikely to throw money around, us being relegated is hardly an attractive proposition for commercial deals oversees.

[baggie82]

reported in press that this bloke was a billionaire?

Yes, simple journalists taking the value capital of Palm (£1.8bn last summer) and confusing that for the wealth of Lai. Lai sold his shares in Palm in 2014. How much he owned and what he recieced for selling up are unknown. The only known is that the OS statement said he had at least as much in savings as he has paid for his share of the club which appears to be around £100m for his 59% share. Highly unlikely a billionaire investor would choose third party funding like Lai has to part fund a takeover.

[Foster#1]

Hasn't the bloke spent 25m since being here on 2 players?
Can't believe people are writing him off , he hasn't been here for 12 months yet ffs.
Can't expect things over night, its progression. Lets judge him in 2020 or something.

[paulosull]

Hasn't the bloke spent 25m since being here on 2 players?
Can't believe people are writing him off , he hasn't been here for 12 months yet ffs.
Can't expect things over night, its progression. Lets judge him in 2020 or something.

received 12 to 15 million  on fat boy and over a million on gardener

[Fritzl Palace]

Hasn't the bloke spent 25m since being here on 2 players?
Can't believe people are writing him off , he hasn't been here for 12 months yet ffs.
Can't expect things over night, its progression. Lets judge him in 2020 or something.

I don't think anyone is writing him off as being a bad person, it is just quite apparent that he isn't going to be putting much if any of his own funds in. £25m from the TV pot is not a great deal and we have recouped on Berahino and Gardner as detailed above

[hunsletbaggie]

Sadly the only person to have gained from the takeover was our Jeremy. The club is no better off for it, the transfer budget hasn't increased significantly because of it. As far as we are concerned, it may as well have never happened.

But I thought the whole point of JP selling the club was he felt he had taken us as far as he could and would only sell to someone he thought could take us to the next level.