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West Bromwich Albion FC Forums => West Bromwich Albion FC => Topic started by: alwaysbilly on February 13, 2015, 04:49:41 PM

Title: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alwaysbilly on February 13, 2015, 04:49:41 PM
Sky Sports have just announced this news - good old Sky Sources.

Maybe JP has had enough or does want to push us on (or cash in)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: crazedwbafan18 on February 13, 2015, 04:51:08 PM
Hmmmm not sure how i feel about this. Selling the soul of our club? I like the way we are, even though we will struggle to progress. I don't want to be playing at 'the macron/reebok' or 'sportsdirect', i want us to play at the hawthorns, keep us true to our identity, not becoming the plaything of a sugardaddy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on February 13, 2015, 04:51:32 PM
Treating this news with much caution, JP is the best thing that's happened to this club in the last 25/30 years.

Days after the new tv deal was announced, I guess the club has never been such an attractive proposition. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on February 13, 2015, 05:04:02 PM
I would be really worried - look at Lerner, numerous East European Oligarchs - they get bored and then that's when the trouble starts. I'd rather not be Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday or even Pompey.

He may be utterly frustrating at times but I would keep JP all day long.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on February 13, 2015, 05:07:28 PM
Better the devil you know. :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on February 13, 2015, 05:23:17 PM
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2015/02/13/albion-seek-new-investment-and-may-sell/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2015/02/13/albion-seek-new-investment-and-may-sell/)

West Bromwich Albion have begun a search for fresh investors - with chairman Jeremy Peace ready to consider an outright sale, sources told the Express & Star today.
    
Albion have spoken to contacts in the City in a bid to attract new financial backers from home and abroad.

And Peace, who is the Baggies’ majority shareholder, has not ruled out selling his controlling stake for the right offer, although he believes a suitable offer is unlikely at this stage.

The Baggies have moved quickly to react to the announcement this week of the Premier League’s new £5.14bn, three-year TV deal.

The latest deal represents a 70 per cent rise on the current £3bn contract for live screening of Premier League matches at home and abroad from 2016.

Sky paid £4.17bn for five of seven packages on offer, equating to 126 live games. BT Sport spent £960m on two, which nets them 42 matches.

Albion believe that makes Premier League clubs more attractive than ever to new investors and hope to steal a march on their rivals by making their move early.

They have contacted industry experts and asked them to spread the word that new investors would be welcomed.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on February 13, 2015, 05:33:53 PM
He did this before and found no-one....

Hardly any foreign buyers have ended up making the club they've brought better. In Birmingham and Blackburn they actually ruined the clubs.

I'd be very cautious with this, even if the buyer seems amazing initially.

Those who have slatted JP have very little clue about the football business and do him a disservice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 13, 2015, 05:34:36 PM
Personally I would like to see a solid institutional co-investor working with JP, with the investor giving due credence to JP's astute stewardship. In other words, a wealthy backer who knows the value of money and won't want to see it wasted, as opposed to a "money no object" sort of owner.

It all stacks up now.  JP being ruthless re managers, loosening his pursestrings to desperately ensure that we stay in the Premier League, and now ready to cash in.  Can't blame him, but I really do hope that he stays very involved. 

This club with an extra £100m (say) invested in the team and with JP's principles remaining in place could be in a very nice position indeed.     
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mat15(MH) on February 13, 2015, 05:37:47 PM
Be interesting to see what is considered a "Suitable offer" by the powers that be. I believe we tried looking before but found no-one, anyone have idea what kind of price we were after then?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on February 13, 2015, 05:39:42 PM
He did this before and found no-one....

Hardly any foreign buyers have ended up making the club they've brought better. In Birmingham and Blackburn they actually ruined the clubs.

I'd be very cautious with this, even if the buyer seems amazing initially.

Thus who have slatted JP have very little clue about the football business and do him a disservice.

I tend to agree with this. JP has done brilliant service for the club and should be recognised for it.

While for some clubs, Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool, foreign ownership has paid off, for most it doesn't seem to have achieved much at all, or worse, in the style of Blues, Villa, Blackburn.

Our model works. Let's be careful what we wish for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on February 13, 2015, 06:02:23 PM
It would be nice to think we could get someone with a bit of cash to splash but didn't mess it up.

Cant see us ever getting a big wealthy owner though but perhaps a good investment from someone may allow us to push on that little bit further
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on February 13, 2015, 06:32:21 PM
Be careful what you wish for...a lot of fans are quick to blame Peace whenever things have gone bad in the past, but personally I think he's an excellent chairman who is also a genuine fan.

I think the reason for looking to sell (this time) is that the excess TV money is around the corner. Supposedly this would be quite attractive to a potential investor in comparison to last time when no one was interested.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnthebaggie on February 13, 2015, 06:48:42 PM
If it's the TV money that's inspired this, then all we need to do is survive in the premier league till 2016........simples.

In fairness this is old news as the club has technically been up for sale for a while, only difference this time is that Peace is publicly stating it and has become a bit more active in looking for an investor/buyer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 13, 2015, 07:10:25 PM
Just take a look at Coventry City if you need to be warned of the dire possibilities!  :o

Not only is the club almost non existent, these days they don't even have their own home ground.

Oh and can I add Hereford united to that list too?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: freddy73 on February 13, 2015, 07:13:48 PM
As has just been stated, Peace has technically been looking to sell since pretty much day 1. Def read somewhere when he 1st started, that he only saw himself doing it for 5 years max. Complete non story. If someone wanted to buy us / invest in us, they would have done so ages ago. Peaces' asking price (just like Lerners' at the Vile), will put anyone off from buying. Add to the fact the forthcoming tv money, I bet his asking price has just gone up!!!
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 13, 2015, 07:16:04 PM
Any numbers mentioned   about the valuation of the club, with new television rights peace will be looking for 50 million minimum for his shares not bad for someone who put in a few pence of his own money. As for becarefull what you wish for JP ain't all that still uses club as his personal cash point
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 13, 2015, 07:38:18 PM
Before anyone gets too excited, I am personally brokering a Championship club,  League 1 club and a world famous golf course. In the last 18 months of following countless meetings in Qatar, UAE etc we have yet to get one firm bid for any of them even at very attractive prices. I also know someone trying to sell a Premier club and he is having no luck either. We have given up entirely with Russian buyers given the weakness in oil and the Ruble. And China is even worse.

Believe me, selling trophy sporting assets is  v v v v v v v hard, even with a rolodex of people who could each buy Albion from petty cash. Don't hold your breath for a quick fix....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 13, 2015, 09:40:59 PM
Before anyone gets too excited, I am personally brokering a Championship club,  League 1 club and a world famous golf course. In the last 18 months of following countless meetings in Qatar, UAE etc we have yet to get one firm bid for any of them even at very attractive prices. I also know someone trying to sell a Premier club and he is having no luck either. We have given up entirely with Russian buyers given the weakness in oil and the Ruble. And China is even worse.

Believe me, selling trophy sporting assets is  v v v v v v v hard, even with a rolodex of people who could each buy Albion from petty cash. Don't hold your breath for a quick fix....

I agree.

And I think that somebody buying a share in the club without acquiring it outright  seems far more likely.

A club our size is more likely to appeal to a different type of investor.  A Beckham-led consortium perhaps.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie Boy on February 13, 2015, 09:52:28 PM
I think it should be remembered that JP from day 1 has stated he is searching for the 'right investor' and for somebody who can progress the club. That is probably why we haven't sold before, because he is only allowing sales to people with decent financial nouse.

It would be easy to sell up to an idiot in the likes of Tan and Venky's, we can safely be assured JP will only sell upon the right investor entering the fray.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on February 13, 2015, 09:52:56 PM
Sounds like a pretty different job Stoxman how'd you come about that?

Challenging I presume as you mention
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: garry on February 13, 2015, 10:03:53 PM
Be careful what you wish for...a lot of fans are quick to blame Peace whenever things have gone bad in the past, but personally I think he's an excellent chairman who is also a genuine fan.
My view entirely.
I'm not talking statues, but I can't think of anyone who has done more for our club in the past fifty years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hunsletbaggie on February 13, 2015, 10:06:15 PM
Best news I've heard in ages bring it on!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 13, 2015, 10:39:09 PM
Sounds like a pretty different job Stoxman how'd you come about that?

Challenging I presume as you mention

I used to run a couple of the Middle East's investment banks. Lived in Abu Dhabi for about 6 years and spent my life on planes around Libya, Saudi, Kuwait, Oman etc. Pretty amazing adventure. Still managed to watch my beloved Albion on Al Jazeera. When the bigger matches were on AL Jazeera 1,2,3 etc I would often find West Brom v Wigan on Al Jazeera Comedy Channel. True and very ironic...

There's been a lot of change in the Gulf recently- a new king in Saudi, a new Emir in Qatar, continued rumblings in Bahrain, the President of the UAE isn't in great health, the oil price has halved. It really isn't going to be easy finding a top money (as Peace will want) buyer today.

COYB
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: frazzle on February 13, 2015, 10:50:06 PM
Best news I've heard in ages bring it on!

I assume this is on the wild assumption that we will be bought by someone with a huge amount of money who does everything that a fan could ever want. Trouble is it rarely ends up that way.

Anyone fancy Leeds, Cardiff or Hull owners?

I'd take Peace any day. Problem is that one day he will decide that he has had enough. Then what?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on February 13, 2015, 10:56:35 PM
As frustrating as I have found him, with his small time attitude, stubbornness and lack of ambition, I would miss Mr Peace. At least our club is on a sound financial footing and looking at some of the other foreign owners I feel very worried!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on February 13, 2015, 10:59:57 PM
Good points frazzle. Cardiff's owner is a billionaire but just look what has happened under his stewardship in the last two years. In the Premiership one season with huge earners on the payroll but now in danger of relegation from the Championship 12 months later with a squad of players to match. Whoever takes over I hope they keep JP at the helm.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on February 13, 2015, 11:13:55 PM
Best news I've heard in ages bring it on!
.    WHY !!!  ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 13, 2015, 11:36:08 PM
I remember the Leeds fans cheering the back of Ken Bates. Being close to GFH, David Hague, Esam Janahi etc all I could think was out of the frying pan and into the volcano.  Are there buyers out there that will satisfy Peace's financial demands? Few. Are there buyers out there who will satisfy Peace's financial demands AND "take us to the next level" as so many demand?  Very, very few in my view.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on February 13, 2015, 11:49:50 PM
FFP stops a billionaire from chucking millions into a transfer kitty now anyway, I'd treat a foreign billionaire owner with much caution, most want chuck their debt upon a club, for me JP is almost the perfect chairman for our club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on February 13, 2015, 11:52:42 PM
FFP stops a billionaire from chucking millions into a transfer kitty now anyway, I'd treat a foreign billionaire owner with much caution, most want chuck their debt upon a club, for me JP is almost the perfect chairman for our club.

I too believe that, despite people claiming the club was nothing but his Piggy-Bank as he understandably drew a wage. Without JP we'd have maybe popped into the Prem once, for one season at best and more likely be where Brum are now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 14, 2015, 12:09:26 AM
I used to run a couple of the Middle East's investment banks. Lived in Abu Dhabi for about 6 years and spent my life on planes around Libya, Saudi, Kuwait, Oman etc. Pretty amazing adventure. Still managed to watch my beloved Albion on Al Jazeera. When the bigger matches were on AL Jazeera 1,2,3 etc I would often find West Brom v Wigan on Al Jazeera Comedy Channel. True and very ironic...

There's been a lot of change in the Gulf recently- a new king in Saudi, a new Emir in Qatar, continued rumblings in Bahrain, the President of the UAE isn't in great health, the oil price has halved. It really isn't going to be easy finding a top money (as Peace will want) buyer today.

COYB

Absolutely right.  Big cash buyers are now more likely to come from the US, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan or India at present.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 14, 2015, 12:31:35 AM
Absolutely right.  Big cash buyers are now more likely to come from the US, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan or India at present.

Maybe. The $ strength helps a potential US buyer but the experience of US buyers hasn't been great so far in the Premier League.  Azeri and Kazakh has possibilities  (assuming that the buyer can get past the "fit and proper" test. Anti money laundering rules are much tougher now and a lot of potential buyers would struggle with these. They also have exposure to oil and that is really starting to bite. India doesn't really get football but there are plenty of people who might, just might want a toy like Albion to prove that the have made it on a global scale. Take a look at Mukesh Ambani and his $1bn house built next to a Mumbai slum. Adding a Premier League team to his trophy wall might give him something to boast about. Remember the chicken farmers that made a mess of Blackburn Rovers?...

Personally, I would look for a leveraged buy out fund. There are a few that would take Albion based on the river of cash that is coming from the new Sky deal. I would mostly use borrowed money (which is currently very cheap and easily available), spend as little as possible on players (keep Dorrans, Morrison etc) and just draw as much cash as I possibly could from the business. Not what we as fans would want at all but, in my view, this is not only the most likely potential buyer but also the one best suited to the Sky megadeal/ FFP era
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 14, 2015, 01:00:19 AM
Maybe. The $ strength helps a potential US buyer but the experience of US buyers hasn't been great so far in the Premier League.  Azeri and Kazakh has possibilities  (assuming that the buyer can get past the "fit and proper" test. Anti money laundering rules are much tougher now and a lot of potential buyers would struggle with these. They also have exposure to oil and that is really starting to bite. India doesn't really get football but there are plenty of people who might, just might want a toy like Albion to prove that the have made it on a global scale. Take a look at Mukesh Ambani and his $1bn house built next to a Mumbai slum. Adding a Premier League team to his trophy wall might give him something to boast about. Remember the chicken farmers that made a mess of Blackburn Rovers?...

Personally, I would look for a leveraged buy out fund. There are a few that would take Albion based on the river of cash that is coming from the new Sky deal. I would mostly use borrowed money (which is currently very cheap and easily available), spend as little as possible on players (keep Dorrans, Morrison etc) and just draw as much cash as I possibly could from the business. Not what we as fans would want at all but, in my view, this is not only the most likely potential buyer but also the one best suited to the Sky megadeal/ FFP era

I dont agree. There's not enough upside for a leveraged buyout fund to get interested, unless they were wanting to take all the extra TV money and I don't see Peace going for that.

If it was a leveraged buyout fund, the leverage would need to be at fund level rather than at club level because of FFP rules.

I'm aware of several from Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan who've made their money only indirectly from oil, but I take your point especially re proving the source of their wealth.

Truth is we don't need a foreign multi billionaire. A successful UK businessman worth £300m to £500m (like a Coates) would do nicely.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 14, 2015, 01:24:22 AM
I dont agree. There's not enough upside for a leveraged buyout fund to get interested, unless they were wanting to take all the extra TV money and I don't see Peace going for that.

If it was a leveraged buyout fund, the leverage would need to be at fund level rather than at club level because of FFP rules.
r as
I'm aware of several from Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan who've made their money only indirectly from oil, but I take your point especially re proving the source of their wealth.

Truth is we don't need a foreign multi billionaire. A successful UK businessman worth £300m to £500m (like a Coates) would do nicely.

Personally I believe that an LBO would work. FFP allows losses of (I think) circa £25m on a three year rolling basis. That would be more than enough to cover the interest margin. The club could then just be run for cash so long as the owner was happy to buy journeyman players on journeyman contracts. In fact, I think that an owner could make the business enormously cash generative at the expense of on pitch success.   We wouldn't be at the front of the queue for the best players but under the squad size limits the other 19 clubs can only take 725 players. That will still leave plenty who will be happy to have a run around for a leveraged and cash focused Albion. Also it's worth remembering that most FFP restrictions are focused on European competitions which isn't a big disincentive for Albion. If we dropped to the Championship we would need to get our house in order to comply with League FFP but by then an LBO could have taken a lot of money out and have moved on....

Scary thought and NOT likely to happen but believe me, the maths do work if someone wanted to do it. Would Peace sell out in this way? He would risk the wrath of Albion fans but maybe if the cheque was big enough?

Things can always be worse....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on February 14, 2015, 08:13:43 AM
Peace could see the new TV deal as heralding the best opportunity he'll have to sell the club. If it hasn't been difficult enough for him to sell previously, once the deal kicks in it'll become even more difficult, as the value of Prem clubs will rocket. He's possibly seeing it as a now or never opportunity to get the absolute maximum that he can by selling the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 14, 2015, 08:21:22 AM
Personally I believe that an LBO would work. FFP allows losses of (I think) circa £25m on a three year rolling basis. That would be more than enough to cover the interest margin. The club could then just be run for cash so long as the owner was happy to buy journeyman players on journeyman contracts. In fact, I think that an owner could make the business enormously cash generative at the expense of on pitch success.   We wouldn't be at the front of the queue for the best players but under the squad size limits the other 19 clubs can only take 725 players. That will still leave plenty who will be happy to have a run around for a leveraged and cash focused Albion. Also it's worth remembering that most FFP restrictions are focused on European competitions which isn't a big disincentive for Albion. If we dropped to the Championship we would need to get our house in order to comply with League FFP but by then an LBO could have taken a lot of money out and have moved on....

Scary thought and NOT likely to happen but believe me, the maths do work if someone wanted to do it. Would Peace sell out in this way? He would risk the wrath of Albion fans but maybe if the cheque was big enough?

Things can always be worse....


Sorry - we were at crossed purposes.  What I meant was that I couldn't see a leveraged buyout from a fund working both for the investor and for the club.  I could see it working just for the investor though.

You and I should talk.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on February 14, 2015, 09:57:48 AM
As mentioned with the new TV deal the time is right to see if the potential for outside investment or even a sale is there. I don't see anything changing since the last time he did this though to be honest, with FFP rules in place it is designed to keep the rich clubs rich and the smaller clubs just don't matter.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 14, 2015, 10:28:47 AM
Why hasn't anyone mentioned a fan's buyout or ishare option that would be the way to go I'd chip In a few bob buyer don't tell the wife
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 14, 2015, 10:45:13 AM
Absolutely right.  Big cash buyers are now more likely to come from the US, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan or India at present.

Must admit, I wondered if there was a link between a potential buyer & the recent appearance of the Kansas City Chiefs cheerleaders.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: garry on February 14, 2015, 11:07:22 AM
Why hasn't anyone mentioned a fan's buyout or ishare option that would be the way to go I'd chip In a few bob buyer don't tell the wife
Yes - it would only require 5,000 of us chipping in £60,000 each to raise £300 million. :D
Perhaps not. :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 14, 2015, 01:01:46 PM
Sometimes you have to lose what you have to really appreciate it?
Valero
Odemwingie
JP
I hope that even if we are sold that he retains some status on the board ,without doubt the most important thing to happen to the Albion in modern history.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 14, 2015, 02:43:11 PM
Yes - it would only require 5,000 of us chipping in £60,000 each to raise £300 million. :D
Perhaps not. :(

£300m? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 14, 2015, 03:56:58 PM
Sometimes you have to lose what you have to really appreciate it?
Valero
Odemwingie
JP
I hope that even if we are sold that he retains some status on the board ,without doubt the most important thing to happen to the Albion in modern history.

JP is on a par with Fred Everiss and his achievements and service to the club IMO
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on February 14, 2015, 05:28:22 PM
It will be a sad sad day when Jeremy Peace leaves this club. No matter what you think of him as a person he has done a remarkable job guiding this club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 14, 2015, 07:25:09 PM
Must admit, I wondered if there was a link between a potential buyer & the recent appearance of the Kansas City Chiefs cheerleaders.

Oddly enough the Kansas City chiefs owner Clark Hunt (net worth $2bn) is the type of owner that might be tempted into the Premier League by the prospect of the river of TV money flowing into the game. His money came from oil originally but is now a sports investor owning the Chiefs and MLS team FC Dallas and has also owned MLS Columbus Crew.

Would he or any other US owner be good for us ? I cannot say other than if their motive is profit at least they won't kill the club like some of the trophy owners might.

I would echo Baggie79's sentiments concerning Peace, I hope we don't end up looking back at his tenure as a golden age.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 14, 2015, 08:39:51 PM
It will be a sad sad day when Jeremy Peace leaves this club. No matter what you think of him as a person he has done a remarkable job guiding this club.
Amen to that .
if he has to leave I hope he takes over at Walsall , does a similar Job and waves at the vile as they swap places..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on February 14, 2015, 08:54:57 PM
In my experience a US takeover leads to a company going bust sooner or later.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Brummie Road on February 14, 2015, 09:02:48 PM

I would echo Baggie79's sentiments concerning Peace, I hope we don't end up looking back at his tenure as a golden age.

Yes, I'd agree, and personally I think Peace has done a great job for the Albion, and really hope the Peace era at the club continues for a few more years to come.

As I've said on a few occasions, it's not just about what happens on the pitch (though obviously that is very important!!), it's also about the fact that we as supporters have been treated well, certainly in terms of ticket prices, particularly for Season Ticket holders which are really good value - certainly in comparison to what many other supporters in the Prem and Championship are having to pay.

Some would argue that it's all about the team and investment in players, but for me running a football club is about a lot more than that, particularly with the community work they do as well.   

So I'd agree he's done, and continues to do, a remarkable job.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on February 14, 2015, 09:07:49 PM
Yes, I'd agree, and personally I think Peace has done a great job for the Albion, and really hope the Peace era at the club continues for a few more years to come.

As I've said on a few occasions, it's not just about what happens on the pitch (though obviously that is very important!!), it's also about the fact that we as supporters have been treated well, certainly in terms of ticket prices, particularly for Season Ticket holders which are really good value - certainly in comparison to what many other supporters in the Prem and Championship are having to pay.

Some would argue that it's all about the team and investment in players, but for me running a football club is about a lot more than that, particularly with the community work they do as well.   

So I'd agree he's done, and continues to do, a remarkable job.
Cannot disagree with that speech! Did Pat write it!?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on February 14, 2015, 09:15:51 PM
It will be a sad sad day when Jeremy Peace leaves this club. No matter what you think of him as a person he has done a remarkable job guiding this club.

Spot on mate. JP has done a remarkable job while around us the Vile, Blus, the Dingles and Cov gave all gone for new owners and come unstuck.

Long may he continue?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Oldbaggie on February 14, 2015, 09:21:48 PM
Spot on mate. JP has done a remarkable job while around us the Vile, Blus, the Dingles and Cov gave all gone for new owners and come unstuck.

Long may he continue

Well said. As a very old Baggie I think JP has been the guiding light to the clubs continued well being while others as mentioned have sunk. Please carry on Mr Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on February 15, 2015, 01:47:54 AM
I don't want JP to sell up. How many Chairmen are there nowadays who were born in the same area as the club?  I think that's a great asset, as he is bound to have a greater affinity than someone from maybe a completely different part of the World. He will understand the local culture. Someone buying in from abroad, will just see the club as a set of figures on a balance sheet. Nothing more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on February 15, 2015, 02:47:36 AM
As frustrating as I have found him, with his small time attitude, stubbornness and lack of ambition, I would miss Mr Peace. At least our club is on a sound financial footing and looking at some of the other foreign owners I feel very worried!

Fully agree with you. Some of his appointments have smacked of economy but he is a very safe pair of hands and I sing his praises regularly to my Blues and vile friends. I welcome investment but hope he stays fully in control. He is a good man to have at the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on February 15, 2015, 11:25:03 AM
Fully agree with you. Some of his appointments have smacked of economy but he is a very safe pair of hands and I sing his praises regularly to my Blues and vile friends. I welcome investment but hope he stays fully in control. He is a good man to have at the club.

B H sanity strikes at last
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 15, 2015, 11:29:52 AM
Fully agree with you. Some of his appointments have smacked of economy but he is a very safe pair of hands and I sing his praises regularly to my Blues and vile friends. I welcome investment but hope he stays fully in control. He is a good man to have at the club.

Agreed. Who's to say he would want to stay though? Feel a bit concerned about this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Strodder on February 15, 2015, 01:59:10 PM
The worry for me around this whole issue is when you think about why anyone would want to buy the club. I don't understand what would be the plan of any new owner, a club of our size is never going to compete for major league honours as it stands and fair play means owners are no longer to bank roll success. Any new owner cannot come in and throw millions at it (hence the reason the existing elite clubs were so keen on the idea).
The club is well run and on a sound footing so will not be cheap, we are not in debt so there won't be any buying the club for a pound situations.
This leaves us with a scenario of a potential new owner wanting a football club as a vanity project, to raise the profile of their real business interests or to just simply cream off the TV cash which is on its way. All of these reasons spell risks to our club and if we hear the word "consortium" we should press the panic button!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: philwba1 on February 15, 2015, 02:16:39 PM
Agreed. Who's to say he would want to stay though? Feel a bit concerned about this.
yeah me too. Always said as long as JP is here we'll have an Albion to support. Too many teams chased the big investors and come unstuck
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 15, 2015, 03:15:59 PM
At some point Jeremy Peace is going to call it a day.

I would hope he does the appropriate checks on any party he is interested in selling too.

Personally, I'd quite look forward to a potential new ownership but I don't think I will forget the hard work Peace has put into changing our fortunes. We might moan that he is tight and a bit too "over prudent" but there is no doubting that our growth under his stewardship has been enormous.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on February 15, 2015, 04:57:54 PM
Bring it on I say.
Peace has done a fantastic job and should go down in Albion history, but a billionaire investor is a no brainer. Ok we may end up in the hands of a madman, but it would just add to the rollercoaster ride of being an Albion fan. Would I take a few years of madness (thinking Portsmouth) with the prospect of a dramatic fall from grace? You bet your ar$e I would. Pompey fans are still Pompey fans and I bet most wouldn't change a thing.
The most frightening future for me is being Greed League cannon fodder for ever more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on February 15, 2015, 05:12:14 PM
Investments are made for a lot of reasons but most of them dont apply to Football clubs. Growth by acquisition, taking out a competitor etc, getting market access etc. The problem Jezza has, is that as an investment (i.e growth to a prem club and the glories of Sky money) he has milked the club dry. He will walk away from any eventual sale better than any future owner will (and has done a great job imo so I don't begrudge him).

How do you buy us for £40 million and make money? Wages run at such a high percentage of turnover that if you want to keep us in the prem and make the sky money you cannot just stop us spending, we would go down.  Asset strip is the only way. Take the 90m and sell off the squad. Nobody can come in, pay £40m and take us to the next step, and make money. We aren't big enough, merchandise and ticket sales will never be a gold mine.

We don't need an investor, we need to be someones play thing, and that can go either way.

That is why he struggles to sell.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 15, 2015, 05:38:05 PM
Investments are made for a lot of reasons but most of them dont apply to Football clubs. Growth by acquisition, taking out a competitor etc, getting market access etc. The problem Jezza has, is that as an investment (i.e growth to a prem club and the glories of Sky money) he has milked the club dry. He will walk away from any eventual sale better than any future owner will (and has done a great job imo so I don't begrudge him).

How do you buy us for £40 million and make money? Wages run at such a high percentage of turnover that if you want to keep us in the prem and make the sky money you cannot just stop us spending, we would go down.  Asset strip is the only way. Take the 90m and sell off the squad. Nobody can come in, pay £40m and take us to the next step, and make money. We aren't big enough, merchandise and ticket sales will never be a gold mine.

We don't need an investor, we need to be someones play thing, and that can go either way.

That is why he struggles to sell.

And I for one thank the heavens for all of that and hope we don't become a play thing

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on February 15, 2015, 09:32:04 PM
Jeremy Peace has done a lot of good, and some bad in his time in  charge of us. But I for one would love someone to come in, inject some money and push us on to the next level. Like some one said its not just the Oil rich Arabs who want to invest. Look at the Asian market, some very rich Chinese, Indian people. Still very rich Russian, Uzbekistan and Ukraine people.

One group who I wouldn’t like, would be Red Bull, they would almost certainly try to re brand the club, I think Peace wouldn’t sell to them anyway. A US owner is a big possibility. Loads of NFL MLS owners been linked to clubs lately.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 15, 2015, 09:37:28 PM
Jeremy Peace has done a lot of good, and some bad in his time in  charge of us. But I for one would love someone to come in, inject some money and push us on to the next level. Like some one said its not just the Oil rich Arabs who want to invest. Look at the Asian market, some very rich Chinese, Indian people. Still very rich Russian, Uzbekistan and Ukraine people.

One group who I wouldn’t like, would be Red Bull, they would almost certainly try to re brand the club, I think Peace wouldn’t sell to them anyway. A US owner is a big possibility. Loads of NFL MLS owners been linked to clubs lately.

no, what has been said is its very difficult to find anyone who would want to invest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 16, 2015, 08:44:30 AM
Bring it on I say.
Peace has done a fantastic job and should go down in Albion history, but a billionaire investor is a no brainer. Ok we may end up in the hands of a madman, but it would just add to the rollercoaster ride of being an Albion fan. Would I take a few years of madness (thinking Portsmouth) with the prospect of a dramatic fall from grace? You bet your ar$e I would. Pompey fans are still Pompey fans and I bet most wouldn't change a thing.
The most frightening future for me is being Greed League cannon fodder for ever more.

Firstly in part because of Pompey and other complete basket case clubs the FFP regulations have been introduced which have pretty much killed the sugar daddy model. Secondly what the hell did Pompey achieve that was so great that makes up for the fact they are currently languishing in 16th place in the Second Division having nearly gone out of existence?  They  managed 7 season in the Premier League (we are currently in our 6th) during which time their highest placed finish was 8th and won one FA cup all of which is achievable within a financially prudent framework.

There is nothing to recommend some wealthy but deluded egotist as an owner. If the club cannot sustain Champions League football there is no next level that is worth a mess of beans and I personally hope that whoever turns up next is just as hard boiled as JP who thankfully has no truck with this sort of nonsense.     
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: chippyclarke on February 16, 2015, 09:06:34 AM
Jeremy Peace has done a lot of good, and some bad in his time in  charge of us. But I for one would love someone to come in, inject some money and push us on to the next level. Like some one said its not just the Oil rich Arabs who want to invest. Look at the Asian market, some very rich Chinese, Indian people. Still very rich Russian, Uzbekistan and Ukraine people.

One group who I wouldn’t like, would be Red Bull, they would almost certainly try to re brand the club, I think Peace wouldn’t sell to them anyway. A US owner is a big possibility. Loads of NFL MLS owners been linked to clubs lately.
Please don't take this the wrong way Jimbo Baggy, but I think you're being very naïve to want "very rich Russian, Uzbekistan and Ukraine people" to take over the club. The majority of these people have made their money in very dodgy ways and I certainly wouldn't want any of them anywhere near my club! As for Red Bull, you would be happy to see Albion rebranded?!
Personally, I would much prefer stick to stick with JP even though I earlier loathed the man, I realize now how lucky we are to have someone who isn't splashing the cash and we are run like a proper club should be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on February 16, 2015, 09:19:57 AM
Firstly in part because of Pompey and other complete basket case clubs the FFP regulations have been introduced which have pretty much killed the sugar daddy model. Secondly what the hell did Pompey achieve that was so great that makes up for the fact they are currently languishing in 16th place in the Second Division having nearly gone out of existence?  They  managed 7 season in the Premier League (we are currently in our 6th) during which time their highest placed finish was 8th and won one FA cup all of which is achievable within a financially prudent framework.

There is nothing to recommend some wealthy but deluded egotist as an owner. If the club cannot sustain Champions League football there is no next level that is worth a mess of beans and I personally hope that whoever turns up next is just as hard boiled as JP who thankfully has no truck with this sort of nonsense.   
That's one more FA cup than I have seen in my 40 years.
The point I was making was that I would rather have a mad few years than eternal mediocrity and at the end of the day I will support them whatever league they are in, so 'doing a Portsmouth' is not the end of the world.
If I had the choice of one night with Angelina Jolie or a lifetime with Edwina Currie, I know which I would take  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on February 16, 2015, 09:23:09 AM
That's one more FA cup than I have seen in my 40 years.
The point I was making was that I would rather have a mad few years than eternal mediocrity and at the end of the day I will support them whatever league they are in, so 'doing a Portsmouth' is not the end of the world.
If I had the choice of one night with Angelina Jolie or a lifetime with Edwina Currie, I know which I would take  ;)

Good point. Portsmouth have had some great games at Fratton Park with the likes of AC Milan coming to town and no one will ever take the FA Cup win away from them.

Also, their fans are loving it where they are now, visiting new grounds and mixing with proper football people.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 16, 2015, 09:56:18 AM
That's one more FA cup than I have seen in my 40 years.
The point I was making was that I would rather have a mad few years than eternal mediocrity and at the end of the day I will support them whatever league they are in, so 'doing a Portsmouth' is not the end of the world.
If I had the choice of one night with Angelina Jolie or a lifetime with Edwina Currie, I know which I would take  ;)

Portsmouth are lucky to be alive they have nothing to show for the madness and right now we are as close to winning a trophy as they were during the Gydamack years and what is more as long as we sustain a Premier League presence we will have a better chance than any of the 72 league clubs. The bonkers owner just ratchets up the risk and in most instances delivers very little in short term gain but have a nasty habit of delivering long term pain.

All of which is a pretty irrelevant because the various FFP regulations have  killed the sugar daddy model.  Now the bonkers owner can't take the club anywhere worth going and are just  well bonkers.

Doing a Portsmouth is utterly shameful given the havoc their administrations have caused their local suppliers, from a personal point of view no it would not matter because I would still be a Baggie regardless of the league we were in but I would not want the Albion to run how Portsmouth were and for a few fleeting moments of glory it is not worth it.

PS A lifetime of Edwina Currie nobody should be forced to endure that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 16, 2015, 03:13:59 PM
Investments are made for a lot of reasons but most of them dont apply to Football clubs. Growth by acquisition, taking out a competitor etc, getting market access etc. The problem Jezza has, is that as an investment (i.e growth to a prem club and the glories of Sky money) he has milked the club dry. He will walk away from any eventual sale better than any future owner will (and has done a great job imo so I don't begrudge him).

How do you buy us for £40 million and make money? Wages run at such a high percentage of turnover that if you want to keep us in the prem and make the sky money you cannot just stop us spending, we would go down.  Asset strip is the only way. Take the 90m and sell off the squad. Nobody can come in, pay £40m and take us to the next step, and make money. We aren't big enough, merchandise and ticket sales will never be a gold mine.

We don't need an investor, we need to be someones play thing, and that can go either way.

That is why he struggles to sell.

I'm not sure an investor would see the football club itself as a significant profit centre. In my opinion, it's the company that we're in, the global audience potential, & the subsequent revenue from advertising a product or service that would make us attractive. The fact that we've acquired an established EPL manager, lowers the risk of any investment capital being lost due to relegation. In my opinion, the additional revenue, as a result of advertising, generated globally from a sustained period in the EPL, and/or Europa League would easily offset any investment costs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on February 16, 2015, 04:32:26 PM
Swansea City FC, a club much smaller than us, seem to be much further down the road with their attempts to attract foreign investors: WHY?

SWANSEA City Supporters’ Trust are expecting an offer to buy 30 per cent of the club to come in the next few weeks.
US billionaire John Moores and associate Charles Noell have held talks with the Swansea hierarchy about the possibility of taking a stake in the Liberty outfit.
And though the trust are opposed to the idea of the Americans getting involved, their representative on Swansea’s board of directors, Huw Cooze, believes a deal could happen.
“Talks are on-going and there’s nothing on the table yet, no offer,” Cooze told the Press Association.
“But I would imagine they would make that offer and be coming in here in the next month or so.
“If they do we’ll have to cross that bridge then, but the Americans and our own shareholders know the Supporters’ Trust shares are not for sale.
“They never will be and they appreciate that, and we will work with them if it (the deal) happens.”
Read more: http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Swansea-City-Supporters-Trust-expecting-American/story-26033662-detail/story.html#ixzz3RvUHX400

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on February 16, 2015, 04:45:57 PM
Maybe because they can attract half of Wales to be fans as they are the only Welsh Premier League side.

We on the other hand have to compete with three Midlands sides and are half way between Manchester and London. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 16, 2015, 05:15:26 PM
Swansea City FC, a club much smaller than us, seem to be much further down the road with their attempts to attract foreign investors: WHY?

SWANSEA City Supporters’ Trust are expecting an offer to buy 30 per cent of the club to come in the next few weeks.
US billionaire John Moores and associate Charles Noell have held talks with the Swansea hierarchy about the possibility of taking a stake in the Liberty outfit.
And though the trust are opposed to the idea of the Americans getting involved, their representative on Swansea’s board of directors, Huw Cooze, believes a deal could happen.
“Talks are on-going and there’s nothing on the table yet, no offer,” Cooze told the Press Association.
“But I would imagine they would make that offer and be coming in here in the next month or so.
“If they do we’ll have to cross that bridge then, but the Americans and our own shareholders know the Supporters’ Trust shares are not for sale.
“They never will be and they appreciate that, and we will work with them if it (the deal) happens.”
Read more: http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Swansea-City-Supporters-Trust-expecting-American/story-26033662-detail/story.html#ixzz3RvUHX400



From an investors point of view we are virtually identical our operating income is practically the same when we are in the Premier League as are the risks. Maybe the Swans can trade a bit on their "national identity" and having a bigger catchment area could be an advantage but neither is any real advantage to an investor unless they can successfully increase their income stream as a consequence (without making a massive investment to generate it)

I would also point out that talks are one thing and a firm offer is an altogether different matter. Although it is interesting that the parties as being reported as interested are American sports investors which are most likely buyers  and I would be surprised if they have not considered other top flight teams or even one or two in the Championship.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on February 17, 2015, 12:34:25 PM
I'm not sure an investor would see the football club itself as a significant profit centre. In my opinion, it's the company that we're in, the global audience potential, & the subsequent revenue from advertising a product or service that would make us attractive. The fact that we've acquired an established EPL manager, lowers the risk of any investment capital being lost due to relegation. In my opinion, the additional revenue, as a result of advertising, generated globally from a sustained period in the EPL, and/or Europa League would easily offset any investment costs.

That's sort of my point though. JP will be trying to maximising our commercial revenues. I doubt he is missing some obvious point which would see that income shoot up drastically and even if you could triple our non sky income, its a drop in the ocean compared to the TV money.

You don't spend £40mill (suggesting your worth is in the £200m + brackets) on an investment to make returns of £500,000 per year through increased advertising. Its not a big enough gain.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 17, 2015, 01:15:03 PM
It's not the advertising revenue though is it? It's the additional products or services sold as a result of a company being associated with a top flight football club, & all of the global exposure. How many addition airline seats do you think Emirates have sold as a result of being associated with Arsenal.

Here's Tata's web site http://www.tata.com (http://www.tata.com). Last year they made a profit of 5.31billion us$ & have assets of 116.32billion us$. They own Jaguar/Landrover, which would give a local connection to us. I'm pretty sure that's why we're doing the work we are in India.
Richard Scudamore was saying last week, that the global exposure of the EPL, now makes it an extremely attractive vehicle for Global corporations.

Personally, I think JP wants out, he knows he's taken us as far as he can, but a change of ownership to a global company like Tata would be brilliant for us IMO.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 17, 2015, 02:01:39 PM
It's not the advertising revenue though is it? It's the additional products or services sold as a result of a company being associated with a top flight football club, & all of the global exposure. How many addition airline seats do you think Emirates have sold as a result of being associated with Arsenal.

Here's Tata's web site http://www.tata.com (http://www.tata.com). Last year they made a profit of 5.31billion us$ & have assets of 116.32billion us$. They own Jaguar/Landrover, which would give a local connection to us. I'm pretty sure that's why we're doing the work we are in India.
Richard Scudamore was saying last week, that the global exposure of the EPL, now makes it an extremely attractive vehicle for Global corporations.

Personally, I think JP wants out, he knows he's taken us as far as he can, but a change of ownership to a global company like Tata would be brilliant for us IMO.

I am pretty sure that Tata or any other global company would not buy us purely to build brand awareness. Sponsorship is one thing ownership is a whole different ball game and unless there was a strategic fit and the prospect of profit it would not not happen.

I think it is easy to overstate the value of the Premier League as a branding vehicle looking at the current shirt sponsors there are only a handful of Global Brands represented and most of those are associated with the top 6 or 7 clubs. If there was real bang for buck in this the smaller teams would be sponsored by global brands rather than obscure betting sites and pay day lenders.

Like it or not any investor will look at the club and the likelihood of making money from it. I can buy a hell of lot of brand awareness for £40m which incidentally is way below the price that JP will be looking for as it is not even equivalent to a year's turnover on the current media contract let alone  the next one.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on February 17, 2015, 02:30:24 PM
Milan Mandaric is back in the market after selling Sheffield Wednesday ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 17, 2015, 03:43:33 PM
I am pretty sure that Tata or any other global company would not buy us purely to build brand awareness. Sponsorship is one thing ownership is a whole different ball game and unless there was a strategic fit and the prospect of profit it would not not happen.

I think it is easy to overstate the value of the Premier League as a branding vehicle looking at the current shirt sponsors there are only a handful of Global Brands represented and most of those are associated with the top 6 or 7 clubs. If there was real bang for buck in this the smaller teams would be sponsored by global brands rather than obscure betting sites and pay day lenders.

Like it or not any investor will look at the club and the likelihood of making money from it. I can buy a hell of lot of brand awareness for £40m which incidentally is way below the price that JP will be looking for as it is not even equivalent to a year's turnover on the current media contract let alone  the next one.

Sorry Stand, that's not the way that most companies behave. The vast majority OWN as little as they possible can. That is why most do not own the stores they trade from, the cars that their senior staff drive etc. They prefer to rent, outsource as much as they can to keep their own balance sheet efficient and the business focused on what they are good at. Running a football company isn't in any way core to Tata and I would be amazed if they devote not just £100m+ of capital but also management time when they could easily just spend £3m and get all the image rights with none of the hassles.  Also, with companies such as Tata (and I personally know them very well), they have individual country businesses to consider. I own a business that has a lot of sponsorship from them but it doesn't just come from the head office; the local business heads are quite autonomous and have a lot of say in how money is spent. The business head for Australia might love the idea of sponsoring Albion and the head for Dubai might not. Top down sponsorships don't just get parachuted down to the regions.

Rich individual or investment buyer; not a corporate buyer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on February 17, 2015, 03:48:58 PM
Sorry Stand, that's not the way that most companies behave. The vast majority OWN as little as they possible can. That is why most do not own the stores they trade from, the cars that their senior staff drive etc. They prefer to rent, outsource as much as they can to keep their own balance sheet efficient and the business focused on what they are good at. Running a football company isn't in any way core to Tata and I would be amazed if they devote not just £100m+ of capital but also management time when they could easily just spend £3m and get all the image rights with none of the hassles.  Also, with companies such as Tata (and I personally know them very well), they have individual country businesses to consider. I own a business that has a lot of sponsorship from them but it doesn't just come from the head office; the local business heads are quite autonomous and have a lot of say in how money is spent. The business head for Australia might love the idea of sponsoring Albion and the head for Dubai might not. Top down sponsorships don't just get parachuted down to the regions.

Rich individual or investment buyer; not a corporate buyer.
So what's in it for any investor Stox? I must admit, I have been a bit flippant on this thread because I don't really understand the ins and outs of investments. I thought investors were only interested in making healthy returns and can't see how they would do that.
Can you give us, in laymen's terms, what might be attractive to a potential investor and what might put them off? What's the most likely scenario (IYO) and how it would affect the club as we see it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 17, 2015, 04:37:40 PM
I believe that West Brom's most recent revenue was circa £70m. £53m of broadcast money. £7m commercial. £7m gate receipts. It has been reported that the most recent deal is a 70% increase in broadcast rights. There is little detail as to exactly how the new money will be shared inside the PL or outside in trickle down payments to the FL, payments to elite development etc.  To keep it simple, let's assume that Albion's broadcast money rises by 70% to £90m. Assume that the gate receipts and commercial revenues don't change (given the amount of TV money, it frankly doesn't matter whether I turn up singing COYB and buying a pie or not...).

IF we now assume that the cost base doesn't change, Albion's very small profit of circa £1-2m per annum suddenly becomes circa £40m per annum because ALL of the extra TV money (another £37m) goes straight to the bottom line.   

The crucial, crucial point is of course cost control. The £40m profit won't happen if agents just push up their players wages pro rata. That may seem far fetched but remember that in 1992 the average PL wage was only £1200 per week. Wage inflation has been enormous and there is no reason why we couldn't see hikes that soak up all of the fresh cash if Chairmen are weak enough.

However, all that a new owner would need to do is say no.  There will only be 500 players on premier league contracts due to the limit of 25 squad players. If Brunt's agent comes asking for a 50%, 60%, 100% pay rise the new owner just says "no, thank you, please go elsewhere and ask one of 19 other owners for that money"  There are only 475 other well paid PL contracts out there. Either Brunt stays and accepts not having a massive pay rise or goes. If he goes we offer Brunt's current package to the best Championship, Scottish, European and (where possible) non-EU players. Brunt's current package would be a massive pay rise for almost any other player and we would have no problem filling our squad with grateful and very committed players. Therefore it unquestionably IS possible to keep our variable costs fixed. 

All of our other fixed costs (ground, maintenence, office, etc) is going to be pretty small compared with our variable costs and these should be genuinely fixed costs anyway. The grass isn't going to cost more to cut following the Sky deal....

Hopefully I have proved that Albion COULD make £40m per annum in the PL.

Of course, if we are paying a smaller wage bill, we might struggle and a long term stay in the PL can't be guaranteed in any investment model that we build. That's ok. Let's assume that just through luck we have 2 years in the PL. Let's also assume that we have two years of break-even following relegation (which seems reasonable as JP's current cost base as appropriate drop-down clauses to avoid financial implosion if we were relegated. There is also the chance that future parachute payments are increased).  Let's also assume that post relegation WBA still has some value and could be sold for £5m.   We therefore have £80m of free cash from 2 years of profits and a stub value of £5m.   

Most banks will lend despite the fickle nature of football clubs. Look at most PL clubs and they have £60-100m of net debt. Swansea and Albion are rare examples of clubs without debt.  Given the cash flows yet to come, I see no reason why any bank wouldn't lend £60m to someone (and by that I mean an individual, fund, corporate structure) who was willing to put up £10m of their own money. This would be a Loan To Value of 85% and given the cash flows, acceptable to most banks. The net interest margin might be LIBOR +7% (that appears about right looking at the interest bills and outstanding debt of other PL clubs) and therefore an interest bill of circa £4m per year.  Knock that £4m off the £40m profit (EBIT for you accountants) and you have a £36m profit before transfer profits/ losses. As you have only put up £10m of your own cash that represents a pre-tax 260% per annum return and you would have recovered your own cash after 4 months.  A sensible banker will ask for the debt to be paid down and that might limit the cash that you could take from the business but one look at the indebtedness of clubs shows that banks don't actually get repaid whenever there is cash in the pot.

So, what does it mean for an investor? They could put up little cash, pay JP a very full price (remember that Lerner was reported to be willing to take less than £100m for Villa and I would suggest that they are a bigger club than us). They could take a dividend of £30m+ per annum for a couple of years and if it all goes to s41t then they can just walk away.  It is honestly a very compelling opportunity for the right investor.

As a supporter, it is of course potentially dangerous. I'm not saying that this is going to happen or even very likely but believe me, the maths work very well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 17, 2015, 04:47:24 PM
I don't understand what is in it for the banks other than the libor +7% though !
Esp if the debt isn't re-paid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 17, 2015, 05:46:27 PM
I believe that West Brom's most recent revenue was circa £70m. £53m of broadcast money. £7m commercial. £7m gate receipts. It has been reported that the most recent deal is a 70% increase in broadcast rights. There is little detail as to exactly how the new money will be shared inside the PL or outside in trickle down payments to the FL, payments to elite development etc.  To keep it simple, let's assume that Albion's broadcast money rises by 70% to £90m. Assume that the gate receipts and commercial revenues don't change (given the amount of TV money, it frankly doesn't matter whether I turn up singing COYB and buying a pie or not...).

IF we now assume that the cost base doesn't change, Albion's very small profit of circa £1-2m per annum suddenly becomes circa £40m per annum because ALL of the extra TV money (another £37m) goes straight to the bottom line.   

The crucial, crucial point is of course cost control. The £40m profit won't happen if agents just push up their players wages pro rata. That may seem far fetched but remember that in 1992 the average PL wage was only £1200 per week. Wage inflation has been enormous and there is no reason why we couldn't see hikes that soak up all of the fresh cash if Chairmen are weak enough.

However, all that a new owner would need to do is say no.  There will only be 500 players on premier league contracts due to the limit of 25 squad players. If Brunt's agent comes asking for a 50%, 60%, 100% pay rise the new owner just says "no, thank you, please go elsewhere and ask one of 19 other owners for that money"  There are only 475 other well paid PL contracts out there. Either Brunt stays and accepts not having a massive pay rise or goes. If he goes we offer Brunt's current package to the best Championship, Scottish, European and (where possible) non-EU players. Brunt's current package would be a massive pay rise for almost any other player and we would have no problem filling our squad with grateful and very committed players. Therefore it unquestionably IS possible to keep our variable costs fixed. 

All of our other fixed costs (ground, maintenence, office, etc) is going to be pretty small compared with our variable costs and these should be genuinely fixed costs anyway. The grass isn't going to cost more to cut following the Sky deal....

Hopefully I have proved that Albion COULD make £40m per annum in the PL.

Of course, if we are paying a smaller wage bill, we might struggle and a long term stay in the PL can't be guaranteed in any investment model that we build. That's ok. Let's assume that just through luck we have 2 years in the PL. Let's also assume that we have two years of break-even following relegation (which seems reasonable as JP's current cost base as appropriate drop-down clauses to avoid financial implosion if we were relegated. There is also the chance that future parachute payments are increased).  Let's also assume that post relegation WBA still has some value and could be sold for £5m.   We therefore have £80m of free cash from 2 years of profits and a stub value of £5m.   

Most banks will lend despite the fickle nature of football clubs. Look at most PL clubs and they have £60-100m of net debt. Swansea and Albion are rare examples of clubs without debt.  Given the cash flows yet to come, I see no reason why any bank wouldn't lend £60m to someone (and by that I mean an individual, fund, corporate structure) who was willing to put up £10m of their own money. This would be a Loan To Value of 85% and given the cash flows, acceptable to most banks. The net interest margin might be LIBOR +7% (that appears about right looking at the interest bills and outstanding debt of other PL clubs) and therefore an interest bill of circa £4m per year.  Knock that £4m off the £40m profit (EBIT for you accountants) and you have a £36m profit before transfer profits/ losses. As you have only put up £10m of your own cash that represents a pre-tax 260% per annum return and you would have recovered your own cash after 4 months.  A sensible banker will ask for the debt to be paid down and that might limit the cash that you could take from the business but one look at the indebtedness of clubs shows that banks don't actually get repaid whenever there is cash in the pot.

So, what does it mean for an investor? They could put up little cash, pay JP a very full price (remember that Lerner was reported to be willing to take less than £100m for Villa and I would suggest that they are a bigger club than us). They could take a dividend of £30m+ per annum for a couple of years and if it all goes to s41t then they can just walk away.  It is honestly a very compelling opportunity for the right investor.

As a supporter, it is of course potentially dangerous. I'm not saying that this is going to happen or even very likely but believe me, the maths work very well.

You've obviously given this some considerable and serious thought and have produced a very good read and an imaginative hypothetical mathematical model.

However, like most things financial in life there is a myriad of unpredictable variables that can and will adversely effect likely and predicted outcomes. And you have allude to a few e.g. players wages and the possible impact on the clubs future profit potential.

I think if you were a potential investor and needed a little more investment to purchase WBA and you took this proposal to the Dragons Den, I'd be amazed if any of the Dragons would back you. There is too much risk, IMO in your model. In theory it looks good, but putting it into practice would be a different matter altogether.

ps I know nothing about accountancy, this is just a layman's opinion. But well done on a thought provoking post
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 17, 2015, 06:37:51 PM
With regards to what does the bank get, a 7% net interest margin is very juicy. Personally I wouldn't want to lend to football clubs (other than where I get first charge over a property asset worth more than the debt!) but banks LOVE lending to them. Just look at the table below to see the loans that have already been advanced. Not all of this will have come from banks but a lot has. Also take a look at the European scene where the debts are even higher and even more is from banks.  Currently most banks are probably under geared and would like to lend more. They are happy to advertise small business loans at 7% to businesses with far less predictable cash flow than an established Premier League football club...

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/may/01/premier-league-club-accounts-debt-wages

With regards to the Dragon's Den, they are looking at very different investments that are FAR higher risk than Albion could be. They are often backing pure venture capital with no assets, short trading histories, negative cashflow and a lot of capex yet to be done. Albion SHOULD be very profitable and certainly profitable enough to return an investors capital relatively quickly.

To be clear, I'm not saying any of this is easy or likely. It isn't. Banks might say no. Hedge funds would supply capital but at far worse terms for the investor (the Glazers were paying circa 15% PIK loans to the hedge funds when they bought Man Utd). There are a hundred reasons why an investment model such as this might not be practical when someone got down to the fine details of due diligence.  Someone asked me whether it was POSSIBLE to make an investment case out of buying, gearing and stripping cash from the Albion and at a high level I believe it might be...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 17, 2015, 08:16:27 PM
Sorry, i didn't make my question clear, i fully appreciate that 7% is very attractive in "usual" circumstances but in a high risk situation such as football, why is it that banks LOVE lending them capital ? Does a bank have an ego?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 17, 2015, 08:33:21 PM
It really comes down to an assessment of risk. You may think of football as risky but banks generally don't view football as risky. Think of it this way- most have been around for 100+ years. Many have property asset backing. Most have (absurdly) loyal customers. Very, very few have gone bust in living memory. A large percentage of their revenues are guaranteed in advance by a wealthy central body. How many industries can claim those factors?  Yes, clubs may lose money at a P&L basis in a particular year but the club doesn't disappear. Banks don't have to write off non-performing loans against football clubs because there is a decent chance of repayment.

Believe me, I have seen far riskier things backed by banks on interest margins that I personally regarded as absurd.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 17, 2015, 08:40:24 PM
when you couch it those terms it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation (in terms I can understand.)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 17, 2015, 08:42:44 PM
It really comes down to an assessment of risk. You may think of football as risky but banks generally don't view football as risky. Think of it this way- most have been around for 100+ years. Many have property asset backing. Most have (absurdly) loyal customers. Very, very few have gone bust in living memory. A large percentage of their revenues are guaranteed in advance by a wealthy central body. How many industries can claim those factors?  Yes, clubs may lose money at a P&L basis in a particular year but the club doesn't disappear. Banks don't have to write off non-performing loans against football clubs because there is a decent chance of repayment.

Believe me, I have seen far riskier things backed by banks on interest margins that I personally regarded as absurd.

I think this maybe similar to contractors winning Local Authority contracts. Banks view lending to these contractors as Blue Chip as they know the contractor will be paid in full regularly. So, the Banks know that their investment is virtually guaranteed. Perhaps a simplistic comparison.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 17, 2015, 08:50:18 PM
I think this maybe similar to contractors winning Local Authority contracts. Banks view lending to these contractors as Blue Chip as they know the contractor will be paid in full regularly. So, the Banks know that their investment is virtually guaranteed. Perhaps a simplistic comparison.

Not simplistic at all. Actually a good comparison. Think of the huge mess that a lot of Public Private Partnerships have got into and yet have been regarded as low risk.  A layman's assessment of risk and a banks assessment of risk can be very, very different (and the latter's assessment isn't always right).  The banks lent lots to Lehman, Bear Stearns, Chrysler, GM, Enron, WorldCom, Trump etc and they all went bust.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 17, 2015, 08:56:12 PM
Hyperthetocally, the Glazers acquired Man United with a debt that is being paid by the club.

Would it be feasible for Albion fans to get together in some sort of co-operative and do something similar?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 17, 2015, 09:29:27 PM
I wasn't close to that one but my recollection was that the Glazers had quite a bit of their own cash in, at least to begin with before they refinanced and even then they still carried some of the debt personally. Might be wrong on that; it's been a while.

Hypothetically, if a supporters consortium could raise £10-20m of equity then yes, it might be possible to do an LBO.  Again I would stress that these numbers ae little more than a guess without knowing what JP wants to achieve, what the new PL revenues look like etc etc.

However, remember my original premise that an investor doesn't care about Albion. If I came in as an investor I would happily swap Foster, Lescott, GMac, Saido, Yacob etc if any of them demanded a wage increase. Would you be happy taking those sort of decisions? Personally I wouldn't as my blood runs blue and white. When you mix business with personal feelings it ends badly....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 17, 2015, 09:38:53 PM
I wasn't close to that one but my recollection was that the Glazers had quite a bit of their own cash in, at least to begin with before they refinanced and even then they still carried some of the debt personally. Might be wrong on that; it's been a while.

Hypothetically, if a supporters consortium could raise £10-20m of equity then yes, it might be possible to do an LBO.  Again I would stress that these numbers ae little more than a guess without knowing what JP wants to achieve, what the new PL revenues look like etc etc.

However, remember my original premise that an investor doesn't care about Albion. If I came in as an investor I would happily swap Foster, Lescott, GMac, Saido, Yacob etc if any of them demanded a wage increase. Would you be happy taking those sort of decisions? Personally I wouldn't as my blood runs blue and white. When you mix business with personal feelings it ends badly....

Thank you for shedding light on some of the pitfalls of a supporters acquisition. I said in any earlier post on this thread that I would be more than happy for JP to remain as the owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 17, 2015, 10:48:35 PM
one final question from me, if I may,
As a finance man, (not a fan) what are your views of JP's tenure?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 17, 2015, 11:37:34 PM
one final question from me, if I may,
As a finance man, (not a fan) what are your views of JP's tenure?

I'm not sure how much JP paid for his shares given the various group structures that were involved and we don't know how much he wants to sell for or will be offered. It is therefore hard to say exactly how well he has done but it's probably fair to assume that he will have made a multi-fold gain and many £10m's. There won't be many assets (equities, bonds, commodities or property) that will have done anywhere near as well.  He has also done it against a backdrop of many other businessmen having lost in football the fortunes they earned in the real world. Remember Simon Jordan p155ing away a phone fortune at Crystal Palace??  JP has taken nice dividends and has probably had far fewer sleepless nights than most other football owners. All in all I think he has done a cracking job for himself.

As a supporter I just ask myself a simple question; if I could put all the other league and PL chairmen/owners in a tombola back and draw one out, would I take the chance? Personally I wouldn't. There might be 5% (Chelsea, Man City) who would have done better for us, 5% (Leeds, Pompey et al) that would have been a disaster and the rest would have been a bit worse (Boro, Shef Utd, Shef Weds, Forest, Ipswich, Blues, Charlton etc etc)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 18, 2015, 09:55:45 AM
Thank you Stoxman for an interesting series of posts and by the way my earlier post on the prospect of being bought by a global was saying it was unlikely. However there a few points worth picking up.

I agree with your basic premise that an LBO is possible and given that the club is virtually debt free owns the freehold to both the training ground and the Hawthorns there is plenty of scope for borrowing. I might quibble about your implied interest rate of 7.68% based on the the fact we are not one of the Premier League's blue chips who are pretty much immune from the threat of relegation and that a large part of the current stock of debt in the Premier League is owner debt which is not being serviced on a commercial basis i.e Lerner waived the interest payments on his loans to Villa in order for the club to comply with the FFP regulations.

However the big unknown is the price that Peace wants. With all buy outs there is a simple rule of thumb if the purchaser pays too much for the asset in the first place it is almost certainly doomed to failure and the use of leverage merely accelerates the process.

Blues went for £81m a few years ago and Fulham for £150m recently. Neither sale worked out well for the purchaser but I cannot see Peace letting the Albion go for less than what Blues were sold for on the basis of a turnover which would have been considerably less than our current level. If Lerner is prepared to take £100m for the Villa that would appear to be a distressed seller trying to sell a distressed asset and I suspect the fact there are no takers at that price is because the new owners would be saddled with the Lerner family trust debt which was standing at over £150m which obviously limits the scope for additional borrowing.

From a pure investor perspective Albion with virtually no debt strong operating model (i.e. flex down clauses in player contracts if relegated) are a better buy at £100m than Villa despite their obvious advantage in terms of fan base because without significant investment it is impossible to realise any net gain from it.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on February 19, 2015, 05:39:59 PM
Peace responds to media speculation

CHAIRMAN Jeremy Peace has clarified his plans for Albion following recent speculation about future investment at the club.

The Baggies were at the centre of weekend reports that the Club had been put up for sale by its chairman of the last 13 years amid claims that a broker had been appointed to seek foreign investment.

Albion this week sent its Annual Report to West Bromwich Albion Group Ltd Shareholders and the Chairman decided this provided a timely moment to bring supporters up to date with his future plans.

Peace explained: "I said then that I was open to proposals regarding investment in the club and would not stand in the way of a new owner providing they convinced me their intentions for the club were in keeping with its traditions and values and their ability to deliver on them was realistic.

"Nothing has changed in that regard. The recent announcement of a new and record media rights deal for the Premier League from season 2016-17 is sure to mean that there is once again huge interest in the brand.

"It was only right and prudent, in my view, that at such a moment we should present the Club to the investment market. I believe it is a sound company – an extremely solid football club with no debt, significant assets, a developing infrastructure and reasons to be confident about the future.

"I have been at the helm for 13 years now and I am proud of what has been achieved in that time. I do not need to remind supporters about the journey we have shared to this point.

"I am happy to continue as we strive to deliver Premier League football whilst growing the Club within our means.

"But equally if there was someone out there willing and capable of taking the club further forward, I would be willing to step aside and negotiate a change of ownership providing it was an investment that was right for the Club."

The financial statement for the Club’s ultimate parent company WBA Holdings Ltd, covering the year ending June 30, 2014, showed Albion remains in robust health.

It reported consolidated pre-tax profits of £14.7m on an income of £86.8m even though overall staff costs continued to increase, to £65.5m which represents more than 75 per cent of turnover.

The Chairman added: "The Club continues to fight its ground in an increasingly competitive market.

"The challenge of growing our profile and our support base, to try to keep pace with the advances our competitors make, is one which I feel we tackle with ingenuity and energy.

"As I have remarked before, it gets harder each year and the demands on everyone at the club to over-achieve never diminishes.

"But it is also exciting and fulfilling when you see The Hawthorns brimming with excitement as it was on Saturday afternoon."

Meanwhile, West Bromwich Albion Holdings, which is controlled by Peace and now holds nearly 88 per cent of the club’s shares, is proposing an end to the requirement to hold an Annual General Meeting of the subsidiary Group company.

It is also seeking to remove the limit on the number of directors who can be appointed and also a removal of the limit to increase share capital by more than 10 per cent annually.

These are moves intended to bring Albion into line with similar-sized private companies.

Chief Executive Mark Jenkins acknowledged that some independent shareholders will be disappointed to see the end of the annual AGM but insisted it would not distance the club’s senior officers from supporters.

He said: "We now feel we have far more effective ways of communicating with our fans and shareholders.

"The body of independent shareholders represents an increasingly small number of people and, as I have done in the past, I am more than happy to meet with their representatives periodically to discuss any issues."
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 19, 2015, 05:59:03 PM
Pre-consolidated profit of £14.7 milloon before tax?  :-X

Financial people what does that mean to the club net (roughly)?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on February 19, 2015, 06:37:28 PM
For those who sometimes question "where's the money gone?", here's the answer! I suspect the profit for 2014-15 will be even higher.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on February 19, 2015, 06:38:53 PM
Hyperthetocally, the Glazers acquired Man United with a debt that is being paid by the club.

Would it be feasible for Albion fans to get together in some sort of co-operative and do something similar?

It's already been done. By JP I believe it was 8 million pounds which the club paid back to Barclays.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on February 19, 2015, 07:06:29 PM
So now no AGM, another step towards the marginalisation of the remaining small shareholders who JP views as little more than an irritant.

It is not clear to me from the statement whether the removal of the 10% annual limit on increasing share capital applies to WBA Holdings or WBA Group. I think it applies to WBA Holdings, and there will be a reason for this which no doubt will be revealed in the fullness of time. Whatever the reason, I very much doubt it will be for the benefit of the other shareholders.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 19, 2015, 08:23:55 PM
For those who sometimes question "where's the money gone?", here's the answer! I suspect the profit for 2014-15 will be even higher.


The quoted pre-tax figure of £14.7million is for the holding company. The profit has'nt necessarily all been generated by the football club. If there are other operating companies in the group, they could have contributed to the overall figure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 19, 2015, 08:47:27 PM
The Holding Company doesn't have any other assets other than the club. The profit will probably net down to about £12m. The answer to the question where has the money gone? Wages which have gone up by £10m and Peace has circumvented the Premier League salary cap rules by putting the £6m retained profit back into the wage bill and I am guessing the wage bill has taken another hike this year and if we want to have any chance of retaining Berahino for instance will go up again next year.

Obviously the devil is in the detail but from the headline figures the club is a very attractive proposition as an investment. The problem is that a lot of the profit will have to be ploughed back into the team mostly in wages to keep the club in the Premier League   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: labaggies on February 20, 2015, 02:13:06 PM

It will make my season when Peace finally sells up, all he has even wanted was to cash in his shares and move on. I will happily risk losing him, as I am positive that we could find a real Albion man to look after the club.

Peace an Albion supporter, I don't think so.

My worry though, even though he would never admit it, is that he will sell out to whoever offers the most cash.

Unfortunately, he will never find anyone to offer the kings ransom that he wants.

Sir Jack Haywood he isn't.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 20, 2015, 02:31:23 PM
It will make my season when Peace finally sells up, all he has even wanted was to cash in his shares and move on. I will happily risk losing him, as I am positive that we could find a real Albion man to look after the club.

Just read your post and we are all entitled to have an opinion, but to help me understand where you are coming from, could you clarify the following for me please:- 

Peace an Albion supporter, I don't think so.

My worry though, even though he would never admit it, is that he will sell out to whoever offers the most cash.

Unfortunately, he will never find anyone to offer the kings ransom that he wants.

Sir Jack Haywood he isn't.....

all he has even wanted was to cash in his shares and move on
What evidence do you have to support this statement?

I am positive that we could find a real Albion man to look after the club.
Perhaps you could provide some suitable names?

Peace an Albion supporter, I don't think so.
On what grounds do you base this statement?

My worry though, even though he would never admit it, is that he will sell out to whoever offers the most cash.
You said you were happy to lose him,so why are you worried about how much he gets for his club?

Unfortunately, he will never find anyone to offer the kings ransom that he wants.
How much is this Kings ransom he wants for his club?

Sir Jack Haywood he isn't.....
What has Jack Hayward got to do with it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 20, 2015, 06:37:52 PM
It will make my season when Peace finally sells up, all he has even wanted was to cash in his shares and move on. I will happily risk losing him, as I am positive that we could find a real Albion man to look after the club.

Peace an Albion supporter, I don't think so.

My worry though, even though he would never admit it, is that he will sell out to whoever offers the most cash.

Unfortunately, he will never find anyone to offer the kings ransom that he wants.

Sir Jack Haywood he isn't.....

I think you will be very disappointed with the new owners whoever they are.

They will almost certainly not be fans nor will they be a benign benefactor like Haywood. Football clubs change hands for buttons because they are financial basket cases which are free to a good home (or any home good or bad), the Albion are not in that position and Peace will want the best price he can get for the club. Yes you are stuck with him for the time being.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 20, 2015, 06:49:31 PM
Sir Jack Haywood he isn't.....

With respect that is an absurd statement. No he isn't. Sir Jack was a unique and generous benefactor. Peace is an astute businessman. No comparison and no disrespect to either.

Be careful what you wish for, peeps.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: garry on February 20, 2015, 06:58:17 PM
Interesting to read through the list of owners, their assets, and their sources of wealth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_club_owners
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on February 20, 2015, 07:20:31 PM
People who call themselves fans have poor memories . We spent years out of the top flight just dreaming of being there . This club of ours isn't a man city Liverpool arsenal etc . Our peak crowds are 27 k . We are mixing it with the big boys . I don't want a dodgie owner . Think blues wolves Coventry Portsmouth and so on . And btw the club has been up for sale for years , I don't see a queue of buyers waiting outside . The reason is we are run properly and if the chairman makes a few bob that his business . As long has we compete on the pitch and stay in the premier I hope he is here for years .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on February 20, 2015, 07:50:36 PM
People who call themselves fans have poor memories . We spent years out of the top flight just dreaming of being there . This club of ours isn't a man city Liverpool arsenal etc . Our peak crowds are 27 k . We are mixing it with the big boys . I don't want a dodgie owner . Think blues wolves Coventry Portsmouth and so on . And btw the club has been up for sale for years , I don't see a queue of buyers waiting outside . The reason is we are run properly and if the chairman makes a few bob that his business . As long has we compete on the pitch and stay in the premier I hope he is here for years .

Totally agree with you. There is much that irritates me about Jeremy Peace. He is stubborn and through a lack of communication has unnecessarily alienated fans. I think at times he has shown a lack of ambition (others will disagree but I for one think we should expand the stadium - we could and should be pulling crowds of 30k). However, he was done an awful amount that is good for this club and deserves a lot of credit (the latest being appointing TP - a fantastic decision). I would not swap him!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on February 20, 2015, 08:17:49 PM
The big news in this announcement is that JP has increased his shareholding to 88.8% (he only had 77.3% after the tender offer ended last July, so somebody/bodies has recently him a substantial number of shares).

As a result he is now within touching distance of the magic 90% threshold needed to be able to compulsorily purchase the remaining shares.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on February 20, 2015, 08:44:06 PM
People who call themselves fans have poor memories . We spent years out of the top flight just dreaming of being there . This club of ours isn't a man city Liverpool arsenal etc . Our peak crowds are 27 k . We are mixing it with the big boys . I don't want a dodgie owner . Think blues wolves Coventry Portsmouth and so on . And btw the club has been up for sale for years , I don't see a queue of buyers waiting outside . The reason is we are run properly and if the chairman makes a few bob that his business . As long has we compete on the pitch and stay in the premier I hope he is here for years .

I believe Thompson was the chairman/owner when we went up. JP has already made many millions from the club treating them so called share holding fans with contempt. My wish would be for the club to be run in the way Swansea are but alas they are the only ones in the prem set up like that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on February 20, 2015, 09:40:58 PM
I have no doubt old jeremy is. One shrewd cookie . To make mega bucks you have to be tough . My point is that you could have far worse than jeremy . One thing we do know is that we will still have a club , next week , next year etc etc . To my list of comparisons I forget a very big club , Glasgow rangers  .He ain't perfect but we could have much worse .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 21, 2015, 01:30:29 PM
Interesting to note that the talks between investors and Swansea mentioned earlier in the thread have come to nothing and having done a bit of digging it has been suggested by not completely uninformed sources that the valuation that was discussed was something in the region of £100m. Obviously the deal is not going to happen whether the price put the potential buyers off or there were other issues I don't know but it is an interesting benchmark. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 21, 2015, 01:34:43 PM
Interesting to note that the talks between investors and Swansea mentioned earlier in the thread have come to nothing and having done a bit of digging it has been suggested by not completely uninformed sources that the valuation that was discussed was something in the region of £100m. Obviously the deal is not going to happen whether the price put the potential buyers off or there were other issues I don't know but it is an interesting benchmark.

They were seemingly only looking at buying a 30% stake! not a controlling interest, which tends to result in more room to disagree over the share value.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 21, 2015, 01:54:36 PM
They were seemingly only looking at buying a 30% stake! not a controlling interest, which tends to result in more room to disagree over the share value.

Agreed there is the added complication of the Swansea Supporters Trust who own 21% of the club and actually have first refusal on any share that is sold (not that they have the resources to buy them at the moment), there are other issues in that they don't own the stadium and one of the reasons why they are looking for external investment is they have aspirations to acquire it, which might not be a priority for the new investors. There are all sorts of reasons why a deal would not happen 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 21, 2015, 02:27:11 PM
I have wondered if a fans trust might be an option at the Albion.

Accepting there is no mega rich baggie out there and the average fans ability to contribute significantly is negligable, perhaps a long term operation is the way forward.

The Trust would be formed with one objective only, which is to accumulate funds over an extended period and buy shares as funds permit. Ok it would be a long term objective and would start from an exceedingly low base, however everything has to start somewhere. With upto 30k "shareholders / members" there should be lots of ideas for funding streams, participation.

Could this be an initiative for the Independent Albion supporters trust?

I imagine the chairman would be hostile to this sort of thing, however as much as I admire what he has done to date, he represents a risk, if he cannot find a buyer / investor will he start to pull away his funds and leave the club weakened?

We need to start planning for this risk IMO.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on February 21, 2015, 02:36:13 PM
The reason is we are run properly and if the chairman makes a few bob that his business . As long has we compete on the pitch and stay in the premier I hope he is here for years .

I echo this. Might not agree with or like everything he has done and in business as in life you will always get different views but he has, I believe, WBA at heart. it is his business and if he takes a large income that is his prerogative. All I hope is that if he does find a buyer, which I think he will struggle to do,  it is to a buyer who will look to take the club to the next level, whatever that level is!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 21, 2015, 02:53:46 PM
Much as I like the idea of an Albion Supporters trust owning a significant stake in the club unfortunately supporters never get their hands on successful clubs. Swansea were virtually going to wall when the supporters picked up their stake and the same with Portsmouth.

It is a massive effort to organise and launch and while the club is not about to die it is very difficult to galvanise fans to back this sort of project. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 21, 2015, 05:12:34 PM
It will make my season when Peace finally sells up, all he has even wanted was to cash in his shares and move on. I will happily risk losing him, as I am positive that we could find a real Albion man to look after the club.

Peace an Albion supporter, I don't think so.

My worry though, even though he would never admit it, is that he will sell out to whoever offers the most cash.

Unfortunately, he will never find anyone to offer the kings ransom that he wants.

Sir Jack Haywood he isn't.....


Much as I can appreciate your desire for a proper baggie to take over at Albion, I would suggest that probability is against it. As I have mentioned previously, it is very very very hard to sell big sporting assets, even to people who can unquestionably afford them.  When you then tell the broker that they have to narrow down their universe to just Albion fans it becomes so much harder still.  It would be analogous to  asking an estate agent to sell your £10m house for you but then saying that it can only be sold to a buyer with one leg and purple hair.

A few stats might help. I would stress that each of these are probably miles out but the general direction is helpful:

We are looking for someone who:

1. Has the money to buy Albion
2. Has the desire to use that money to buy Albion
3. Is an Albion fan

 1. How many people have the money to buy Albion?  We don't know how much JP wants for the club but most people on here suggest £100m. Let's take that as the correct figure. I would imagine that labaggies doesn't want the new owner to be a highly leveraged investor who will run the business for cash and take whatever they can out of the club. I would imagine they want someone who would be willing to not just spend what the club generates in cash each year (which is roughly what JP has done give or take a £m or two each year). Let's say that we want the new investor to also spend £50m of their own money on improving the team. Ok, we want someone who will spend a total of £150m. If that is the case we don't just need someone with £150m because it is unlikely that anyone will put their entire net worth into a club. Everyone will have their own view of what proportion of their wealth they would commit or risk to the Albion. Let's assume that no-one will invest more than 1/3rd of their wealth. We are therefore looking for someone with a net worth of £450m.  That puts a person at circa 240th richest in the UK according to the Sunday Times Rich List.  The chance of finding a person richer than that in Britain out of 65m people is 0.0004%.

2. Will that person invest their money?  I know a number of multi-millionaires and several billionaires. I know people who have had the chance to buy Blackburn, Grimsby and other teams that I can't mention. They could have bought them without making a noticeable change to their bank balance. Only last week I offered my business partner (who is worth circa £220m) a chance to buy half of a club his father supported for £5m and he laughed at me! Just because we like something and afford it doesn't mean we will buy it. Let's assume that 1/10 people who can afford to buy Albion will actually want to buy it (and I think that is generous).

3. Will that person be an Albion fan?  It's hard to measure how many fans we have. We have a capacity of 26+k and an average attendance of a bit less. If we had a massive cup match at Wembley we would easily take 50k. Let's be generous and say there are 100k Albion fans which would be every adult male in Sandwell. Again I would say this is generous given the number of those who don't like football, follow W*lves etc.  100k people is roughly 0.15% of the people in the UK.

If we multiply 0.0004% x 10% x 0.15% you find the probability that there is someone in the UK who is an Albion fan ready willing and able to throw £150m at Albion. The answer is 0.000000005%. Put another way, that's odds of 173,333,000,000/1.   Put another way those odds are roughly the same as having an accumulator on the new Royal baby being named Wayne (1000/1), alien life being proved (1000/1), UKIP winning the next election (250/1) and Spurs winning the Premier League this year (500/1). Perhaps you could have that bet with £1 and if it comes off, you can buy Albion and still have nearly £100m left to improve the team!

http://www.oddschecker.com/novelty/alien-existence/when-will-alien-life-be-proven
http://www.oddschecker.com/novelty/royal-baby-ii/name-of-baby
http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/winner

Of course there are odd examples that arrive and make a nonsense of the odds. Sir Jack Hayward, Steve Lansdown et al are genuine fans who put a lot of their own money into their own clubs. There MAY be a Albion fan out there with £500m and a willingness to invest. I would question why he hasn't already done so when prices were much lower. Maybe he made his money recently and couldn't have invested before the Premier League, Thompson etc.  Maybe, maybe, maybe.  Very unlikely in my view.

For me, if JP sells then we are facing either a single high net worth individual with no affiliation to our club or an investor.  I would love to imagine a consortium being built from amongst fans but they numbers have become so big that I just can't see how it would be managed.  We would need at least 100 seriously wealthy people (remembering that someone with a mere £1m of net wealth couldn't put £1m in as a lot would be tied up in their house, business, pension etc and wouldn't be liquid).  I seriously doubt that there are enough HNWs in and around Albion to make this happen and if it did happen it would be pretty hard to manage.

On a positive note, great point today!

COYB!


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Brummie Road on February 21, 2015, 06:33:56 PM
Just a quick thank you to "stoxman" for all the interesting and informative posts on this thread, and making all this Corporate business stuff easy(ish) to understand (well, for people like me!).

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 21, 2015, 07:15:25 PM
Just a quick thank you to "stoxman" for all the interesting and informative posts on this thread, and making all this Corporate business stuff easy(ish) to understand (well, for people like me!).

Very welcome. It's still little more than educated guess work but when I charge for advice I dress it up as more than that...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on February 21, 2015, 07:36:33 PM
Very welcome. It's still little more than educated guess work but when I charge for advice I dress it up as more than that...
Ditto what BR said very interesting and informative thank you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on February 23, 2015, 07:32:23 PM
I have been told by a good source that the proposed investment in Swansea by some American billionaires in return for a 30 per cent stake in the club is likely to fall by the wayside. The Americans, it appears, wanted the option to buy a further 30 per cent stake at a later date - something the Swansea Board and its supporters, who have a 21 per cent stake in the club, would not agree to.
Foreign investors are only interested in what they can make out of clubs. I just hope that if JP does sell then it is to a British consortium with the interests of the club paramount.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on February 24, 2015, 02:40:19 AM
i was quick to slate JP last season and he made mistakes. But overall he has steered the club to stability and we are still in the Premiership, and have been for many years, which given our size is a huge achievement.

He runs a smart set-up, we are cash rich and we are seen as a benchmark  by many mid-table Clubs.
A new owner would be a huge gamble.

A year ago i would have jumped at it......not so sure now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Stroller on February 26, 2015, 12:31:39 PM
If proof were needed that it's vital to find investors and sponsors who a)understand and b) give a pooh about football and what it means, here it is:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-ucg4wWkAA9Sc3.png)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/26/dunkin-donuts-apologises-liverpool-crest-hillsborough-flames (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/26/dunkin-donuts-apologises-liverpool-crest-hillsborough-flames)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bob on February 26, 2015, 05:35:02 PM
The big news in this announcement is that JP has increased his shareholding to 88.8% (he only had 77.3% after the tender offer ended last July, so somebody/bodies has recently him a substantial number of shares).

As a result he is now within touching distance of the magic 90% threshold needed to be able to compulsorily purchase the remaining shares.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Tony Hale has recently sold his 100+ shares to JP
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 26, 2015, 05:39:29 PM
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Tony Hale has recently sold his 100+ shares to JP

I think it was Geoff Hale and it was 1001 shares :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on February 26, 2015, 05:44:57 PM
Tony Hale was a former chairman
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bob on February 27, 2015, 03:55:10 PM
Apologies, yes, it was Geoff Hale who sold just over 1000 shares.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on March 13, 2015, 10:19:21 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31838296 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31838296)

I wonder If Mr Peace has his number ; he seems to have enough money ... not sure I like the thought though, quite proud of the fact that whatever we achieve it has been without the help of a rich benefactor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 13, 2015, 11:45:05 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31838296 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31838296)

I wonder If Mr Peace has his number ; he seems to have enough money ... not sure I like the thought though, quite proud of the fact that whatever we achieve it has been without the help of a rich benefactor.

Not sure that Sunseeker yachts & West Bromwich Albion are that good a fit, but he's definitely the type of investor we need.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 13, 2015, 01:59:56 PM
Nah, we are more hoseasons than sunseeker

"sailboats, canalboats and cruisers too"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 14, 2015, 10:38:48 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/mar/13/crystal-palace-takeover-nearing-completion-josh-harris

£90m for Palace (for an 85% stake)

I haven't got the info to do a direct comparison but a similar sized club, albeit Palace have more debt and usually make losses before transfer sales
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 29, 2015, 12:15:21 PM
From The Sun apparantely (thought The Sun had packed in ? )
(https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10367787_1096107173748840_9132850435107275116_n.jpg?oh=183e257dfbfa0dd49590b2a495e392c7&oe=5574F7A6)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on March 29, 2015, 12:41:44 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/mar/13/crystal-palace-takeover-nearing-completion-josh-harris

£90m for Palace (for an 85% stake)

I haven't got the info to do a direct comparison but a similar sized club, albeit Palace have more debt and usually make losses before transfer sales

Palace nowhere near as bigger club as the Baggies.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stokelad84 on March 29, 2015, 12:44:42 PM
£120million sounds about right to me. Aston Villa (larger stadium and more established infrastructure?) are close to agreeing a £150million deal according to The Mirror:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-sale-uk-based-group-5419185

Sticking with Pulis and his staff shows they have some knowledge of English football too. It would be easy for the new owner(s) to come in and want a Gus Poyet or a Paolo Di Canio at the helm. Backing Pulis shows me they want stability and continuity which will be good for your club. Money spent removing the current coaching staff and hiring a new team would leave less money in the transfer budget.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on March 29, 2015, 01:43:16 PM
I'll believe when I see it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on March 29, 2015, 02:28:53 PM
I would be concerned if we were sold, at best we'd be getting someone who wants a symbiotic relationship with the club like Peace has, but would they do as well as him? It took him a good few years to learn. At worst you could get an asset stripper come in.

The clubs in a pretty good shape at the moment, instability can only be bad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 29, 2015, 06:53:50 PM
Very sceptical about any story in the Sun but the price would be about right. The last few deals talked about i.e. Swansea, Palace and Villa would put a price of around £100 to £150m on a mid to lower table Premier Club and that feels about right.

There are differences in potential and what property the club's own but essentially it boils down to buying a piece of the second biggest sporting  media rights contract in World sports the Americans understand that and hence their interest in English football. What they tend to overlook is relegation and how much of a club's resources have to be deployed to avoid that.

Generally football club's with the possible exception of Blackpool have not been asset stripped they generally fail because of over ambition and incompetence.  In theory new owners could sell off the playing staff and replace with cheaper players banking a short term profit but at the risk of forgoing the future revenue from the Premier League contract.

 Any sane business model has to be based on the very minimum of Premier League survival, in order to be a successful business the club has to attract and retain the players capable of staying in the Division. Any owner paying a £100m for the club would understand this but whether they would have the know how and competence is a different matter all together.

I await developments with interest and a certain amount of trepidation
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 29, 2015, 08:18:48 PM
Far more important than the identity of the buyer is the identity of the people who they appoint to actually run the club on a day to day basis. Some foreign buyers of clubs have installed complete clowns, and everything then falls apart.

I would hope that any new buyer insists that Peace stays on for an agreed period.    I think Peace has always said that he would be circumspect about who he sells to, so let's hope he gets it right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on March 29, 2015, 08:25:19 PM
Hope its not true.

A buyer keeping Peace as chairman would be the best scenario if JP did sell but I like things the way they are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on March 29, 2015, 08:29:37 PM
Peace wants to go so a sale is inevitable whether soon or years down the line.

He has done a great job, built us up to what we are today but he can't take us any further.

Personally I view a potential sale as a positive.  Under Peace I think that 8th place finish is as good as it gets.  Under a new owner we COULD move onto the next level and for me that's more positive than knowing we WONT.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on March 29, 2015, 08:38:17 PM
Peace wants to go so a sale is inevitable whether soon or years down the line.

He has done a great job, built us up to what we are today but he can't take us any further.

Personally I view a potential sale as a positive.  Under Peace I think that 8th place finish is as good as it gets.  Under a new owner we COULD move onto the next level and for me that's more positive than knowing we WONT.
How do we improve from here while staying in the boundaries of FFP? The investor can't do anything as FFP forbids him/her/them from just pumping money in so we rely on our own revenue sources... which we do already.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dudleylad on March 29, 2015, 08:40:48 PM
Im nervous about it because a new owner can also be counter productive but Im confident Peace will make the right decision about the motives of a new owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 29, 2015, 09:39:33 PM
How do we improve from here while staying in the boundaries of FFP? The investor can't do anything as FFP forbids him/her/them from just pumping money in so we rely on our own revenue sources... which we do already.

Not correct.  An investor can pump in money but it has to be as capital, not debt, while the total wage bill still needs to remain within the permitted limit as a percentage of revenue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 30, 2015, 01:16:37 AM
Not correct.  An investor can pump in money but it has to be as capital, not debt, while the total wage bill still needs to remain within the permitted limit as a percentage of revenue.

The club is possibly subject to three sets of "FFP" regulations and one way or another they absolutely kill the sugar daddy model.

Premier League regulations permit up to £30m  loss if covered by equity investment or £15m if funded by debt. and wage growth funded by TV revenues capped at £4m

UEFA Losses capped at 15m euro's with equity investment or just 5m euros  if covered by debt there are some exceptions such as money spent on Youth development and stadium improvements  but generally they are tougher than the Premier League ones.

Championship £8m loss with equity investment £3m without.

Firstly £30m lavished on any mid table team would hardly take them to the brink of the  Champions League  particularly if it was not backed up by wages. Even if it did the club could find it's path to European competition barred by UEFA ffp.

Secondly if relegated the club would be hamstrung by the Championship regulations which is a fate that awaits QPR.

Whoever is the Albion's new owner is I would not expect them to throw millions at the club in a vainglorious attempt to propel the club towards the upper echelons of the European game, that moment has passed. Man City and PSG were the last of the sugar daddy projects. From now on in it is serious investors with an eye on the bottom line who will be the typical Premier League Club owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 30, 2015, 06:46:06 AM
The club is possibly subject to three sets of "FFP" regulations and one way or another they absolutely kill the sugar daddy model.

Premier League regulations permit up to £30m  loss if covered by equity investment or £15m if funded by debt. and wage growth funded by TV revenues capped at £4m

UEFA Losses capped at 15m euro's with equity investment or just 5m euros  if covered by debt there are some exceptions such as money spent on Youth development and stadium improvements  but generally they are tougher than the Premier League ones.

Championship £8m loss with equity investment £3m without.

Firstly £30m lavished on any mid table team would hardly take them to the brink of the  Champions League  particularly if it was not backed up by wages. Even if it did the club could find it's path to European competition barred by UEFA ffp.

Secondly if relegated the club would be hamstrung by the Championship regulations which is a fate that awaits QPR.

Whoever is the Albion's new owner is I would not expect them to throw millions at the club in a vainglorious attempt to propel the club towards the upper echelons of the European game, that moment has passed. Man City and PSG were the last of the sugar daddy projects. From now on in it is serious investors with an eye on the bottom line who will be the typical Premier League Club owners.

Agreed.   There is no point in chasing the dream.  The realistic main objective is to make us less likely to be involved in a relegation battle.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on March 30, 2015, 12:05:34 PM
Agreed.   There is no point in chasing the dream.  The realistic main objective is to make us less likely to be involved in a relegation battle.


Then I have to say how f****** boring is it going to be to be an Albion fan for the foreseeable.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on March 30, 2015, 12:17:04 PM

Then I have to say how f****** boring is it going to be to be an Albion fan for the foreseeable.

They're right. It is what it is I'm afraid.
Look how long the likes of Wigan, Bolton, Fulham, Charlton hung around seeking mid table mediocrity before the owners start reducing the funding.
Unless we can buck the trend best we can hope for is a top half finish and/or a good cup run.
The owners couldn't give a hoot if your bored or not, so long as they get their TV rights money every year thats the ambition for 15 clubs in the Prem every year
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on March 30, 2015, 12:21:40 PM
They're right. It is what it is I'm afraid.
Look how long the likes of Wigan, Bolton, Fulham, Charlton hung around seeking mid table mediocrity before the owners start reducing the funding.
Unless we can buck the trend best we can hope for is a top half finish and/or a good cup run.
The owners couldn't give a hoot if your bored or not, so long as they get their TV rights money every year thats the ambition for 15 clubs in the Prem every year


I know - they are spot on.  Its the reason why so many fans are fed up with football.  Boredom of the fans will mean gates will drop.  Fans want enjoyment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stokelad84 on March 30, 2015, 12:22:45 PM
That's got to be the realistic goal kris_boing. The gap between the Premier League and The Championship will get larger and larger over the next few seasons. It's best to be the part with the have instead of part of the have not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on March 30, 2015, 02:13:16 PM
That's got to be the realistic goal kris_boing. The gap between the Premier League and The Championship will get larger and larger over the next few seasons. It's best to be the part with the have instead of part of the have not.

I agree totally.

You only have to look at this season to see that the teams coming up are all likely to go straight back down.

The gap is getting bigger, and the Championship is becoming harder to get out of.

I would prefer to be in the Premier league mid table gang, than in the Championship any day.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on March 30, 2015, 03:26:41 PM
Can't say the prospect of JP selling makes me happy. Unless he retains some sort of input/control, running the club day to day, the thought of new owners really bothers me. There are just too many examples of clubs going belly up under foreign ownership.

It was always inevitable he would look to sell,  but it's an unwelcome development in my view.

Having said that though, it could work out for us, and let's hope it does.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on March 30, 2015, 06:23:49 PM
The club is possibly subject to three sets of "FFP" regulations and one way or another they absolutely kill the sugar daddy model.

Premier League regulations permit up to £30m  loss if covered by equity investment or £15m if funded by debt. and wage growth funded by TV revenues capped at £4m

UEFA Losses capped at 15m euro's with equity investment or just 5m euros  if covered by debt there are some exceptions such as money spent on Youth development and stadium improvements  but generally they are tougher than the Premier League ones.

Championship £8m loss with equity investment £3m without.

Firstly £30m lavished on any mid table team would hardly take them to the brink of the  Champions League  particularly if it was not backed up by wages. Even if it did the club could find it's path to European competition barred by UEFA ffp.

Secondly if relegated the club would be hamstrung by the Championship regulations which is a fate that awaits QPR.

Whoever is the Albion's new owner is I would not expect them to throw millions at the club in a vainglorious attempt to propel the club towards the upper echelons of the European game, that moment has passed. Man City and PSG were the last of the sugar daddy projects. From now on in it is serious investors with an eye on the bottom line who will be the typical Premier League Club owners.
Thanks for summing it up. I'm not sure how Cardiff City have managed it but their total debt is now meant to be around £170m ....£130m owed to Vincent Tan who I know has paid off debt owed to previous owners (Sam Hamman).  I guess a fair proportion of that debt would have been from pre FFP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 31, 2015, 01:33:02 AM
Cardiff City since 2000 have been owned by Sam Hamman Peter Risdale and Vincent Tann. Between rebrands (Hamman floated the first one) near bankruptcy, the golden ticket fiasco and the farce of their first season in the Premier League the club has now got a debt mountain of £175m which is about £80m more than it's asset value. Given that £129m of the debt falls due within the next 12 months they are technically insolvent although because the debt is owed in large part to the owner I am sure it will be rolled over. Tan has on numerous occasions promised to convert the debt into equity but thus far no cash has been forthcoming.

If an owner turns up with big plans and grandiose visions I will be very concerned and I hope Peace is true to his word and passes the club over to a safe pair of hands.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on April 04, 2015, 11:08:39 PM
The People is reporting interest is being shown from US and Far East investors in purchasing West Brom with a £150m asking price quoted.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-brom-owner-jeremy-peace-5460946

West Brom owner Jeremy Peace is selling the Black Country club, reports Neil Moxley in the Sunday People.
People Sport understands the Baggies chairman and majority shareholder is well underway with his plans to offload the Premier League outfit.
A few months ago Peace gave authorisation to a firm in the city to find him a buyer – and several interested parties have been shown around the club’s facilities in the past few weeks.
Two groups in particular, one from America, the other from the Far East, have so far shown an interest.
The asking price is in the region of £150million, giving Peace a huge profit on the club he bought for a few million pounds at the turn of the Millennium.
If he can get the price he wants – and Peace is acknowledged within the game as driving a hard bargain – he will have reaped a personal gain in excess of £100million for the 15 years he has been in charge at the Hawthorns.
Peace turned the Baggies from being a near-laughing stock to one of the most professional clubs in the country. They recorded a profit of £10million last season.
The news means that three West Midlands clubs are now on the market: West Brom and Aston Villa in the Premier League and Birmingham in the Championship.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ComebackStrodds on April 04, 2015, 11:41:16 PM
Cardiff City since 2000 have been owned by Sam Hamman Peter Risdale and Vincent Tann. Between rebrands (Hamman floated the first one) near bankruptcy, the golden ticket fiasco and the farce of their first season in the Premier League the club has now got a debt mountain of £175m which is about £80m more than it's asset value. Given that £129m of the debt falls due within the next 12 months they are technically insolvent although because the debt is owed in large part to the owner I am sure it will be rolled over. Tan has on numerous occasions promised to convert the debt into equity but thus far no cash has been forthcoming.

If an owner turns up with big plans and grandiose visions I will be very concerned and I hope Peace is true to his word and passes the club over to a safe pair of hands.

Yes but all he'll have to go on is a gut feeling, and research. Anyone potential buyer can make the right noises. If it goes belly up in a few years time no one can blame Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on April 05, 2015, 12:24:32 AM
It's the greed league. Who amongst us would turn down that sort of money and not give a damn about the consequences.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 05, 2015, 08:00:16 AM
It's the greed league. Who amongst us would turn down that sort of money and not give a damn about the consequences.

To be fair to Peace he has always said he would only sell the club to the right owners. While plainly an astute businessman and motivated by personal gain I do think he cares about his legacy and after 15 years it is very much his life's work and I while he will drive a hard bargain he is not exactly on his uppers so price will not be the sole consideration.

Obviously anyone with deep enough pockets can talk the talk and the clowns that took Pompey to their second administration made all the right noises but ultimately were a bunch of fraudsters. However there is plenty of due diligence that can be done and I would  hope that would weed out the wholly unsuitable.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: weareblueweare white on April 05, 2015, 11:05:29 AM
Can't say the prospect of JP selling makes me happy. Unless he retains some sort of input/control, running the club day to day, the thought of new owners really bothers me. There are just too many examples of clubs going belly up under foreign ownership.

It was always inevitable he would look to sell,  but it's an unwelcome development in my view.

Having said that though, it could work out for us, and let's hope it does.
I honestly cannot see a new owner who will be be spending a reputed 150M £'s letting JP have any control. They might have him in an advisory role while taking over, but that's as far as I think any involvement JP will have in the running of the club.
I agree it was always inevitable JP would sell, and with the new TV deal in place the value of the club will be at its peak.
What JP will have a say in is who we sell to, so fingers crossed he gets this right and we don't end up in the hands of a far Eastern hairdresser :-[
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: frazzle on April 05, 2015, 11:10:16 AM
Peace has done a brilliant job and I hope the last couple of years hasn't taken the shine off it. We now have an infrastructure and approach that will see us well set up into the future.

The thought of a new owner is a mixture of panic and excitement. We could end up with a bit more cash to invest and explore with a bit more ambition, build on the Halfords and attract some better players, or we could end up in a Leeds fiasco.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on April 05, 2015, 11:14:59 AM
The mirror group of papers do like to print inflammatory and usually inaccurate stories about us.

I am not sure when we were a near laughing stock of a club and if we were it would be interesting what their views are on many of the other clubs in the football league were doing at the time. (Although it is nice that they recognise that we are now one of the most professional clubs in the country.)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on April 05, 2015, 11:24:16 AM
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2015/04/05/jeremy-peace-in-200m-takeover-talks-for-west-bromwich-albion/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2015/04/05/jeremy-peace-in-200m-takeover-talks-for-west-bromwich-albion/)

At least one potential group of buyers has been shown around The Hawthorns and the Albion training ground near Walsall with Peace keen to resolve the club’s ownership early this summer.

But no firm offers have yet been made to end his decade-long tenure as majority shareholder.

Businessmen from the Far East and America are among those to have shown an interest with Peace now waiting to discover whether any of them will return with a concrete offer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on April 05, 2015, 11:25:53 AM
That statement puts a 3 month deadline on any potential offers st that it does not infringe on the Summer transfer market.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on April 05, 2015, 11:56:03 AM
If there is any truth of investor interest and the enticement is the new premiership TV deal from 2016, I would imagine that no decision will be made until it is clear that our Premiership status is guaranteed which after yesterday and the final run-in has put a question mark over that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 05, 2015, 11:57:12 AM
If there is any truth of investor interest and the enticement is the new premiership TV deal from 2016, I would imagine that no decision will be made until it is clear that our Premiership status is guaranteed which after yesterday and the final run-in has put a question mark over that.

I agree.  3 points yesterday and the negotiations could already be a lot further advanced!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on April 05, 2015, 12:10:59 PM
I must admit I am very worried at this weekends revelations.

Better the devil you know IMO.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 05, 2015, 01:20:41 PM
I this time unlike the earlier attempt to look for buyers I think there is genuine interest from overseas bidders. I think there are a number of reasons

1. The new TV deal makes the top line of the business look very attractive.

 2. We are more established in the Premier League (investors make the same mistake as fans and assume longevity is the same as security)

3. The club could be run at a profit without doing anything to it other than maintaining it's Premier League status.

Ideally we do not want a long drawn out bidding process and if as suggested a deadline of early summer has been set for completion of any deal that would be beneficial
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on April 05, 2015, 01:38:48 PM
I think this is bad news. New owners from America or the Far East will almost certainly be people with zero understanding of our football culture, national, never mind Black Country culture.  Such situations as wanting to re-name the club, changing the club colours are far more likely.

Unfortunately, WBA will probably just be a line on a balance sheet, nothing more, nothing less. Of course a profitable club is more likely to be successful on the playing field, but being a supporter means being able to identify with the club through thick and thin. That means understanding the club culture. As a supporter I want success on the playing field, but I want our teams to play attacking entertaining football.

In practice, it would depend on who new owners would appoint as technical director, who in turn would be able to advise on the footballing side. However, the people at the top carry the can, and if they have nowt understanding of the game, can they be relied upon to appoint knowledgeable people around them??

Give me Jeremy Peace any time.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on April 05, 2015, 02:20:18 PM
The thing is though how has Jeremy Peace kept with the traditions is the club? He has created a new badge, neutralized the stadium by creating the west stand and east stand, removed the seat designs and not replacing them. Apart from re-naming the stadium which I'm sure he would have done given half the chance, he's pretty much re-branded the club anyway.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on April 05, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
The thing is though how has Jeremy Peace kept with the traditions is the club? He has created a new badge, neutralized the stadium by creating the west stand and east stand, removed the seat designs and not replacing them. Apart from re-naming the stadium which I'm sure he would have done given half the chance, he's pretty much re-branded the club anyway.
This is the only one I could comment on but wasn't it changes in order to be covered by copyright? It's hardly a massive change from the previous incarnation, unlike the WBA letters or the original crest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ska-dForLife-WBA on April 05, 2015, 02:39:34 PM
The thing is though how has Jeremy Peace kept with the traditions is the club? He has created a new badge, neutralized the stadium by creating the west stand and east stand, removed the seat designs and not replacing them. Apart from re-naming the stadium which I'm sure he would have done given half the chance, he's pretty much re-branded the club anyway.

Um...what?  The East Stand was "created" while Thompson was in charge, and the West has been there since the early Eighties.  I suppose the seat designs are a matter of taste - personally I'd prefer no seats at all, but sadly that's not possible - but the designs were hardly some time-honoured tradition handed down from generation to generation.

And as for renaming the stadium... well, Peace has only had thirteen years in charge and a world full of potential sponsors to choose from, so obviously there's been no chance for him to do it, has there?  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: frazzle on April 05, 2015, 02:48:39 PM
The thing is though how has Jeremy Peace kept with the traditions is the club? He has created a new badge, neutralized the stadium by creating the west stand and east stand, removed the seat designs and not replacing them. Apart from re-naming the stadium which I'm sure he would have done given half the chance, he's pretty much re-branded the club anyway.

Getting rid of that awful scalf in the Brummie was a good thing imo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PepeMel on April 05, 2015, 02:52:33 PM
It's time to gamble it's time for a change
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on April 05, 2015, 06:38:35 PM
Um...what?  The East Stand was "created" while Thompson was in charge, and the West has been there since the early Eighties.


I meant re-branded.  Rainbow Stand is now East Stand (although I'll conceded that it was done under Thompson) and Halfords Lane Stand is now West Stand.  Surprised he didnt go the whole way and rename the Brummie as the North Stand and the Smethwick as the South Stand.  No doubt he would have done if they had been redeveloped.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on April 05, 2015, 06:55:03 PM
We all appreciate that Jeremy Peace has taken us as far as he can but there seems great fear about us moving on from him.

There is going to come a point where Jeremy Peace is going to leave - he is actively looking to sell so I say we just crack on and see what the future holds. Personally, I'm looking forward to potential new investment and the excitement that will bring.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on April 05, 2015, 07:01:42 PM
We all appreciate that Jeremy Peace has taken us as far as he can but there seems great fear about us moving on from him.

There is going to come a point where Jeremy Peace is going to leave - he is actively looking to sell so I say we just crack on and see what the future holds. Personally, I'm looking forward to potential new investment and the excitement that will bring.


And me.  Well said.  I think its exciting.  It could go pear shaped but it could move us onto the next level and that's the way I prefer to think.  Really looking forward to this summer providing we stay up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ska-dForLife-WBA on April 05, 2015, 07:04:54 PM

I meant re-branded.  Rainbow Stand is now East Stand (although I'll conceded that it was done under Thompson) and Halfords Lane Stand is now West Stand.  Surprised he didnt go the whole way and rename the Brummie as the North Stand and the Smethwick as the South Stand.  No doubt he would have done if they had been redeveloped.

As a matter of fact, when the current all-seater BRE and SME stands were rebuilt in 1994, the club officially re-named them "the Apollo 2000 Stand" and "the Travel West Midlands Community Stand" respectively due to a sponsorship deal which eventually expired in 2004.  Jeremy Peace could have renewed that deal or sought new sponsorship for the stands, but instead allowed them to revert to being the Brummie Road and the Smethwick End (as us fans had continued to refer to them anyway).  So personally, I think that's a big thumbs-up to the bloke for restoring a bit of Albion heritage.

The only "re-branding" you can legitimately lay at Peace's door is the Halfords Lane to West Stand name-change, and even now, most folks I know still call it the Halfords; it's no skin off our nose, and no particular bother what the club officially designate it.  Hardly Vincent Tan territory, is it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on April 05, 2015, 07:17:04 PM
Ska, If i remember correctly the Halfords was called the 'brew xi' stand at one point aswell. So no further sponsorship there either.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ska-dForLife-WBA on April 05, 2015, 07:34:19 PM
Ska, If i remember correctly the Halfords was called the 'brew xi' stand at one point aswell. So no further sponsorship there either.

Yeah, that's true; we actually went a lot more hell-for-leather with sponsorship in the Nineties than we've ever done under Peace, but I suppose a lot of that was just needing every penny we could scrape together.

Also, for the record, the Rainbow Stand was just a nickname fans came up with in the Sixties because of the brightly-painted seats in its upper rows.  The official club name for that stand between its construction in 1964 and its demolition in 2001 was, in fact, "the East Stand". How's that for heritage?  ;D

Back on-topic, I think there's plenty to be naturally concerned about with the prospect of new owners, but hopefully Peace is shrewd enough to know a good buyer from a crook.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 17GD on April 07, 2015, 12:07:47 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32202895

Interesting read posted this morning.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Yamaka on April 07, 2015, 02:58:08 PM
Back on-topic, I think there's plenty to be naturally concerned about with the prospect of new owners, but hopefully Peace is shrewd enough to know a good buyer from a crook.  Fingers crossed.

Just as there is a world of a difference between a coach and a manager, there's a massive difference between an owner and an investor. The USA in particular have a long and proud tradition of asset stripping.  Surely we want someone who will invest in the club rather than in their own portfolio?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aixelsyd on April 07, 2015, 11:55:45 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32202895

Interesting read posted this morning.

actually that is interesting.....

My take on it is that JP does not want to damage the brand by saying "no realistic buyer is on the horizon".

Instead we get the "Peace is keen that the process does not drag on" statement so as to save face if nothing eventuates.

This has happened before when he was after investors and similar quotes were made to cover up the lack of interest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on April 09, 2015, 07:26:52 PM
Aixelsyd what are you on about, its been clearly stated in the Press that a group have already been shown round the ground, and training facility’s. Think this is a clear sign that Peace is talking to groups interested in taking over. Five groups I have heard.

Im all for it, as long as its sold to the right people, who are going to invest in the team and ground. Exciting times if we are sold to the right people. ::)  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on April 09, 2015, 08:47:57 PM
Just looking locally here, is this actually a good thing if we were to sell?
I mean Villa went to a US owner, who has taken them backwards from Doug Ellis, Birmingham's new owners have been disastrous and even Morgan whose heart is in the right place at Wolves took them down to league one and still hasn't recovered from when he took them over.

In fact, has there been a tale in the past 5-10 years where new owners have actually benefited a club? I know Man City and Chelsea have profited massively, but away from a billionaires play-thing, do these sales actually advance a club or am I being too pessimistic?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on April 09, 2015, 09:35:11 PM
Just looking locally here, is this actually a good thing if we were to sell?
I mean Villa went to a US owner, who has taken them backwards from Doug Ellis, Birmingham's new owners have been disastrous and even Morgan whose heart is in the right place at Wolves took them down to league one and still hasn't recovered from when he took them over.

In fact, has there been a tale in the past 5-10 years where new owners have actually benefited a club? I know Man City and Chelsea have profited massively, but away from a billionaires play-thing, do these sales actually advance a club or am I being too pessimistic?

Southampton could be said to be in a better position now since their takeover. Likewise Swansea saw new ownership years ago, and a long-term plan has reached fruition. For all the mistakes Fernandes and co have made at QPR, I doubt they would be a Premier League club at all without them.

There are cases where new owners have proved successful after coming in. It's just that in most cases, the club is a basket case beforehand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 09, 2015, 11:17:10 PM
I wrote this last year and I still think it holds true.

http://lookbackinmildbewilderment.blogspot.co.uk/2014_02_01_archive.html

Ultimately I do think Peace's tenure has run it's course and a new ownership might help the club develop but there is not a snowball in hells chance that the new ownership will throw millions at the club that moment has passed. It always amuses me that fans talk about investment but in general the quickest way to make a small fortune in football is start with a large one and buy a football club.


 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on April 09, 2015, 11:37:12 PM
Southampton could be said to be in a better position now since their takeover. Likewise Swansea saw new ownership years ago, and a long-term plan has reached fruition. For all the mistakes Fernandes and co have made at QPR, I doubt they would be a Premier League club at all without them.

There are cases where new owners have proved successful after coming in. It's just that in most cases, the club is a basket case beforehand.
I agree regarding Southampton, and arguably Leicester improved under their new ownership. However, I think Swansea was more of a local setup similar to what Peace did with us. I was specifically on about foreign owners who aren't local and will have less of an emotional commitment.
Regarding QPR however, they're in a far worse financial position since Fernandes however. I know they weren't great anyway and they had lots of debt/facing league one, but since Fernandes the debt has increased massively.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on April 09, 2015, 11:43:15 PM
Good blog standaman. I agree a fans trust but with simpler , clearer leadership than we had in the 90s would be ideal to ensure longer term stability if not necessarily investment? This works very well in Germany so why not here?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 10, 2015, 10:55:58 AM
I wrote this last year and I still think it holds true.
http://lookbackinmildbewilderment.blogspot.co.uk/2014_02_01_archive.html

I've often wondered what your Avatar was.........a goldfish.

Thought it was a bloody UFO!  :o.

Should have gone to Spec Savers.
 :P.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on April 10, 2015, 12:44:01 PM
I agree regarding Southampton, and arguably Leicester improved under their new ownership. However, I think Swansea was more of a local setup similar to what Peace did with us. I was specifically on about foreign owners who aren't local and will have less of an emotional commitment.
Regarding QPR however, they're in a far worse financial position since Fernandes however. I know they weren't great anyway and they had lots of debt/facing league one, but since Fernandes the debt has increased massively.
Yes Swansea currently is a local setup, though they are in talks with American investors at the moment - not sure whether Huw Jenkins will remain as Chairman if anything comes of that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 10, 2015, 01:10:04 PM
I've often wondered what your Avatar was.........a goldfish.

Thought it was a bloody UFO!  :o.

Should have gone to Spec Savers.
 :P.

Just looked at it again.
Playing cards......getting mixed up with your blog avatar.
Need to take some of my own advice from the election thread.....
Time to go outside I think.  :).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtvPlFty1rE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtvPlFty1rE)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on April 11, 2015, 08:14:25 PM
JP must be starting to worry about his £150 million - we'll only be worth a fraction of that if we get relegated!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on April 11, 2015, 08:56:41 PM
Dear Jeremy,
After deep soul searching and watching the pooh performance of your pin striped Nancy boys over the last two weeks I am afraid to say that our consortium has decided to withdraw it's offer to buy the Club for 150,000.000. However we would be prepared to reconsider our bid and suggest that 250 quid would be more appropriate for the bunch of monkeys that performed today.
Yours sincerely
Abu Ben Bongo
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on April 19, 2015, 06:40:01 PM
We are nearly safe now, I think the negotiation process will be speeded up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: CovBaggie on April 20, 2015, 04:11:19 PM
It's no secret brokers have been shown around the club, training ground etc for potential suitors. Question now is, where the investment lies. At the moment, it's within the Far East.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on April 20, 2015, 04:19:36 PM
It's no secret brokers have been shown around the club, training ground etc for potential suitors. Question now is, where the investment lies. At the moment, it's within the Far East.

No chinese investor please, don't think they will have a clear planning for the club, they just see the club as a toy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on April 20, 2015, 04:22:57 PM
Nobody from Malaysia either if Cardiff's Vincent Tan is anything to go by. >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on April 20, 2015, 04:45:33 PM
I'd be very surprised if a sale goes ahead this summer. We need a buyer who is willing to give Peace £150m, and then invest in the club on-top. Given that he bought the club for a circa 4-6m (apparently using a loan which the club then paid back of the years) and has been paying himself a generous salary he is taking the micky. No chance of a Jack Hayward style giveaway I guess. He may be a fan but he's a business man first and fan second.

Why would anyone want to invest for £150-200m? Even with the new TV deal there is little money to be made as it's all going to go on the playing side and greed league wages. Alternatively if there is any money to be made then that's to the detriment of the club and the fans.  Real tension here between the likely profit motives of any outside consortium and the future of the club.

I suspect that anyone investing £200m odd is either going to try to push the debt onto the club via dodgy loans (which would be a disaster for us and a disgrace. We are not Man Utd, we cannot afford a Glazer style debt dump being laid at our door) or is going to want to take money back from the future revenue - which wouldn't appear likely either unless an asset stripping process gets underway.

From a business perspective there appears to be no real incentive. We also need to be careful with getting carried out with the press stories of groups being shown around the facilities. There are lots of dodgy people around who claim to have access to large wealth but in fact are no more than con-artists. Just like what happened down the road with Birmingham.

Peace has done a professional and impressive job in many ways but if he sells to random consortium who then abuse what has been built up then he will be the one responsible.

To re-cap we need an investor who will:

-Invest at least £200m to invest in the club from day one and have access to more dough
-Have no interest in recouping that investment, or trying to make a profit
-Run the club for the long term interest (i.e. no debt, stability, back Pulis long term)

So essentially we need a Steve Gibson type billionaire - there is no chance of this working out.

Best case scenario we are probably stuck with Peace which would be no bad thing - just wish he'd show some ambition to expand the stadium and lower the match day ticket price (not season ticket prices).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on April 20, 2015, 04:48:59 PM
What is a recurring nightmare scenario for me is the prospect of a buyer who has no understanding of football, tradition, fans and our history and is persuaded by some smooth talking consultant, maybe a once high profile ex player or administrator, who claims to know everything there is to know about football in general and West Bromwich Albion specifically.

This consultant then recommends Mr X as the ideal manager, who becomes an "Aunt Sally" because he's not up to the job and we face oblivion.

Even the most intelligent and intellectual of men sometimes demonstrate a lack of commonsense and can be fooled.

I hope JP stays on as Chairman for a reasonable period of time when and if he sells.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on April 20, 2015, 08:08:52 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32202895

Interesting read posted this morning.
The article is a fortnight old ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sessegod on April 20, 2015, 08:11:36 PM
Hull and Cardiff are prime examples of why we need to be careful here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 20, 2015, 10:31:01 PM
I'd be very surprised if a sale goes ahead this summer. We need a buyer who is willing to give Peace £150m, and then invest in the club on-top. Given that he bought the club for a circa 4-6m (apparently using a loan which the club then paid back of the years) and has been paying himself a generous salary he is taking the micky. No chance of a Jack Hayward style giveaway I guess. He may be a fan but he's a business man first and fan second.

Why would anyone want to invest for £150-200m? Even with the new TV deal there is little money to be made as it's all going to go on the playing side and greed league wages. Alternatively if there is any money to be made then that's to the detriment of the club and the fans.  Real tension here between the likely profit motives of any outside consortium and the future of the club.

I suspect that anyone investing £200m odd is either going to try to push the debt onto the club via dodgy loans (which would be a disaster for us and a disgrace. We are not Man Utd, we cannot afford a Glazer style debt dump being laid at our door) or is going to want to take money back from the future revenue - which wouldn't appear likely either unless an asset stripping process gets underway.

From a business perspective there appears to be no real incentive. We also need to be careful with getting carried out with the press stories of groups being shown around the facilities. There are lots of dodgy people around who claim to have access to large wealth but in fact are no more than con-artists. Just like what happened down the road with Birmingham.

Peace has done a professional and impressive job in many ways but if he sells to random consortium who then abuse what has been built up then he will be the one responsible.

To re-cap we need an investor who will:

-Invest at least £200m to invest in the club from day one and have access to more dough
-Have no interest in recouping that investment, or trying to make a profit
-Run the club for the long term interest (i.e. no debt, stability, back Pulis long term)

So essentially we need a Steve Gibson type billionaire - there is no chance of this working out.

Best case scenario we are probably stuck with Peace which would be no bad thing - just wish he'd show some ambition to expand the stadium and lower the match day ticket price (not season ticket prices).

It is important to distinguish between an investor and a benefactor. An investor gives money to a project in the hope and expectation of a return whereas a benefactor gives money out civic duty, ego or to curry political influence. Too often football fans confuse the two and assume that the former is always preferable to the latter.

A good investor (Peace Fenway or  Lewis) is preferable to a bad benefactor (Alam, Tan or Jordan). A good investor understands what they are buying and nurtures it, yes the decision making is informed by the profit motive but as such they do not waste resources for show.

 On the other hand the benefactor model is often lavish in it's expenditure but not in anyway shape or form rational and often club's are engulfed by crisis's entirely created by the benefactors ego and amateurish dabbling. A lot of the money is wasted and the net effect is probably negative.

It is probably worth noting that the Tan and Alam have poured millions into Cardiff and Hull who were in desperate financial straits without there intervention their supporters would be lucky to watching their teams in Division 2. That alone gives the owners a certain sense of entitlement to try out whatever crackpot schemes they dream up.

Peace is selling a strong club that can stand on it's own two feet without the need to find funds from anywhere to keep going. There is no need for the new owners to go to their pocket to bankroll the club if they wish to invest in projects that generate growth in the expectation of a return that is their choice. Hopefully a quality asset will attract a quality investor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on April 20, 2015, 10:43:34 PM
The article is a fortnight old ?

He posted the link a fortnight ago ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 20, 2015, 11:06:42 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-takeover-chinese-consortium-5555974

Aston Villa are being targeted by a wealthy Chinese consortium who want to complete a takeover immediately after the FA Cup final.

Tim Sherwood’s side stunned Liverpool on Sunday to set up a showdown against Arsenal on May 30.

And Villa could lift the Cup then be in new hands within hours as the Chinese are determined to buy a Premier League club.

The group have also held talks with neighbouring West Brom as a back-up plan as the move for Villa would depend on them avoiding relegation.

MirrorSport understands the consortium already have representatives in England and are doing due diligence ahead of completing a Villa deal in early June.

   
They have been at the training ground and toured the club as wantaway owner Randy Lerner is willing to sell for around £150million.

But four miles away, Baggies chairman Jeremy Peace has also put his club up for sale - and the same Chinese group are interested in Albion as an alternative.

Peace, who has shown the group around their stadium and facilities, is holding out for upwards of £100m.

Villa, whose sale is being handled by Bank of America Merrill Lynch, has more potential with its top stadium, training ground and bigger fanbase, but is also more expensive.

Albion, meanwhile, recently posted annual financial results showing pre-tax profits of £14.7m on an income of £86.8m.

Peace is believed to have impressed the group with his financially prudent methods such as having all staff on flex-down contracts should the club be relegated.

But Albion have an ageing squad and boss Tony Pulis wants major investment in the new younger players this summer to avoid another relegation battle.

The Chinese consortium are thought to be the only serious bidders in for both Villa and West Brom.

But they have also apparently enquired after Crystal Palace, valued at around £90m, following a hitch in talks with US businessman Josh Harris’ Apollo Global Management group.

A deal was progressing but Eagles owner Steve Parish is believed to have raised the terms recently when they started flying under new boss Alan Pardew.


Far East sources say the Chinese group have been after a Premier League club for a year and are now hopeful of finalising a deal.

If successful, they plan to strategically raise revenues in China by growing the brand to reinvest in the club in line with Financial Fair Play.


The above is from James Nursey who is  about as reliable as an Austin Allegro so make of it what you will. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on April 21, 2015, 12:00:01 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-takeover-chinese-consortium-5555974

Aston Villa are being targeted by a wealthy Chinese consortium who want to complete a takeover immediately after the FA Cup final.

Tim Sherwood’s side stunned Liverpool on Sunday to set up a showdown against Arsenal on May 30.

And Villa could lift the Cup then be in new hands within hours as the Chinese are determined to buy a Premier League club.

The group have also held talks with neighbouring West Brom as a back-up plan as the move for Villa would depend on them avoiding relegation.

MirrorSport understands the consortium already have representatives in England and are doing due diligence ahead of completing a Villa deal in early June.

   
They have been at the training ground and toured the club as wantaway owner Randy Lerner is willing to sell for around £150million.

But four miles away, Baggies chairman Jeremy Peace has also put his club up for sale - and the same Chinese group are interested in Albion as an alternative.

Peace, who has shown the group around their stadium and facilities, is holding out for upwards of £100m.

Villa, whose sale is being handled by Bank of America Merrill Lynch, has more potential with its top stadium, training ground and bigger fanbase, but is also more expensive.

Albion, meanwhile, recently posted annual financial results showing pre-tax profits of £14.7m on an income of £86.8m.

Peace is believed to have impressed the group with his financially prudent methods such as having all staff on flex-down contracts should the club be relegated.

But Albion have an ageing squad and boss Tony Pulis wants major investment in the new younger players this summer to avoid another relegation battle.

The Chinese consortium are thought to be the only serious bidders in for both Villa and West Brom.

But they have also apparently enquired after Crystal Palace, valued at around £90m, following a hitch in talks with US businessman Josh Harris’ Apollo Global Management group.

A deal was progressing but Eagles owner Steve Parish is believed to have raised the terms recently when they started flying under new boss Alan Pardew.


Far East sources say the Chinese group have been after a Premier League club for a year and are now hopeful of finalising a deal.

If successful, they plan to strategically raise revenues in China by growing the brand to reinvest in the club in line with Financial Fair Play.


The above is from James Nursey who is  about as reliable as an Austin Allegro so make of it what you will.
Sounds like he made this up while sat in the pub.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Avonbaggie on April 21, 2015, 11:07:56 PM
If Peace is looking to sell and doesn't manage to find anyone during the early part of the summer will there realistically be a large investment in the squad during the transfer window? It seems a bit of a catch 22.. He will want to stay up to keep his value of the club strong but then the more he puts in the less he will potentially take out..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on April 21, 2015, 11:11:03 PM
I'd really rather villa get chinese investment over us. Always seems to go wrong with chinese owners, they seem a bit dodgy. I would rather keep peace tbh. An ideal scenario is if a big company takes us over as has been done with Liverpool but that won't happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on April 22, 2015, 06:29:04 AM
We've seen the 'Peace Out' brigade in action I wonder if we will see a 'Peace In' brigade come to the forfront now?  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on April 22, 2015, 10:59:47 AM
I'm not really a fan of JP.  I think the finances - both short and long term - have always come before any football success for him.  There's lots of other stuff (that has been debated long and hard) but finding some stability in the PL is taking some of my grudges away... if only he hadn't made some ridiculous managerial decisions and tried to do everything on the cheap for most of the last 2 years.

If he sells the club for £150m then he's done amazingly well for himself.  Having already reclaimed his original investment and plenty more besides, plus a £1m+ salary for many years now.  If he achieves that £150m it will be more than £10m per year he's been chairman.  He will stand, almost on his own, as someone walking away from a football club with a handsome profit.  But its £150m he'd take out of WBA and English Football. 

What does he need £150m for?  Why wouldn't he say give me £100m and use the other £50m to build a new Halfords and buy a centre forward.  (I know I'm full of romantic ideas of sharing some of the rewards with those who've been on the journey with you.)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on April 22, 2015, 12:00:20 PM
I'm not really a fan of JP.  I think the finances - both short and long term - have always come before any football success for him.  There's lots of other stuff (that has been debated long and hard) but finding some stability in the PL is taking some of my grudges away... if only he hadn't made some ridiculous managerial decisions and tried to do everything on the cheap for most of the last 2 years.

If he sells the club for £150m then he's done amazingly well for himself.  Having already reclaimed his original investment and plenty more besides, plus a £1m+ salary for many years now.  If he achieves that £150m it will be more than £10m per year he's been chairman.  He will stand, almost on his own, as someone walking away from a football club with a handsome profit.  But its £150m he'd take out of WBA and English Football. 

What does he need £150m for?  Why wouldn't he say give me £100m and use the other £50m to build a new Halfords and buy a centre forward.  (I know I'm full of romantic ideas of sharing some of the rewards with those who've been on the journey with you.)

walk away with £100m and leave a legacy at the club, romantic yes, but possible - who knows??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on April 22, 2015, 01:18:10 PM
I'm not really a fan of JP.  I think the finances - both short and long term - have always come before any football success for him.  There's lots of other stuff (that has been debated long and hard) but finding some stability in the PL is taking some of my grudges away... if only he hadn't made some ridiculous managerial decisions and tried to do everything on the cheap for most of the last 2 years.

If he sells the club for £150m then he's done amazingly well for himself.  Having already reclaimed his original investment and plenty more besides, plus a £1m+ salary for many years now.  If he achieves that £150m it will be more than £10m per year he's been chairman.  He will stand, almost on his own, as someone walking away from a football club with a handsome profit.  But its £150m he'd take out of WBA and English Football. 

What does he need £150m for?  Why wouldn't he say give me £100m and use the other £50m to build a new Halfords and buy a centre forward.  (I know I'm full of romantic ideas of sharing some of the rewards with those who've been on the journey with you.)
My thoughts exactly. If he truly wanted us to kick on as a club, he should consider this. If he does intend to walk away with a massive windfall, he'd be just another greedy individual that cares not a jot about a club and it's supporters.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 22, 2015, 01:22:32 PM
You inherit your house when a family member dies. It is worth 150k do you pocket 100k and give the other 3rd to charity when the sale goes through or do you take the full 150k

Very easy to decide how to spend other people's money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Yamaka on April 22, 2015, 02:12:04 PM
You inherit your house when a family member dies. It is worth 150k do you pocket 100k and give the other 3rd to charity when the sale goes through or do you take the full 150k

Very easy to decide how to spend other people's money.

Whilst I understand your point we are talking on a totally different scale here. The obscene amounts of money swilling around in this business these days is completely unacceptable IMHO.  I know I am being niave but ssince no one seems to wish to legislate against greed we can only hope that individuals might begin to buck the trend and develop some kind of social conscience?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on April 22, 2015, 03:44:10 PM
You inherit your house when a family member dies. It is worth 150k do you pocket 100k and give the other 3rd to charity when the sale goes through or do you take the full 150k

Very easy to decide how to spend other people's money.

Didn't Sir Jack of the dog heads sell for a £5   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on April 22, 2015, 03:49:31 PM
You inherit your house when a family member dies. It is worth 150k do you pocket 100k and give the other 3rd to charity when the sale goes through or do you take the full 150k

Very easy to decide how to spend other people's money.

Not really a decision is it?  more a point of conjecture.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on April 24, 2015, 11:05:01 PM

Albion head coach Tony Pulis and chairman Jeremy Peace
   

Latest from the B'ham Mail:

West Bromwich Albion chairman Jeremy Peace has given Tony Pulis a sell-by date.
Peace is ready to sell the club this summer and has told Pulis the cut-off point for a potential takeover, so as not to disrupt his transfer plans.
Pulis was unable to reveal the date, but insisted the chairman had been open about his intentions. and would remain committed to Albion if the right buyer was not found.
“He’s given us that promise that he won’t be hanging round if there’s an offer there and there’s a deal to be done,” said Pulis.
“He’ll want it done before a certain date and if that doesn’t happen then he’ll commit himself to the club again.”
“I think he wants it to be with the right people. I don’t think he wants to sell it to just anybody. They have to be the right people who are going to invest and look after the club.
“He’s spent a lot of time here and invested a lot of money into the football club to put it where it is. If you look at the stadium, the academy set up, the training ground facilities and everything else. This club has moved on very well and they make a profit every year. So he hasn’t done too bad a job.”
Meanwhile. Pulis has confirmed Craig Dawson has recovered from a dead-leg, while there are no fresh injury worries ahead of the match against Liverpool

Having read the article I suspect that the cut-off date could be around the end of May. If so, this would imply that a deal is still very much on the cards.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mansell100 on April 27, 2015, 12:56:51 PM
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2015/04/27/foreign-investors-close-to-west-bromwich-albion-bid/? (http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2015/04/27/foreign-investors-close-to-west-bromwich-albion-bid/?)

Foreign investors close to West Bromwich Albion bid

Foreign investors are thought to be close to making an offer for West Bromwich Albion, with two overseas parties showing a strong interest in the club, according to officials.

Interest in the club in beginning to hot up after chairman Jeremy Peace set a mid-summer deadline on any deal when he put it up for sale for £200 million. He said he does not want negotiations to interfere with planning for next season.

Albion said two overseas parties had shown strong interest in taking over the club and that the end of May would be the ‘critical’ point if there is to be a takeover.

Other groups are also believed to be monitoring events from afar before deciding whether to enter the battle for the club.

Club spokesman Martin Swain said: “There are a couple of interested parties and that process is continuing.

“We believe there are still others in the background who have not made quite as serious a play yet. The end of May is the critical moment. We will know a lot more then.”

Groups from America and the Far East have made contact about potentially taking over the club but the chairman is ready to walk away from any deal if it is not completed by the start of pre-season training in July.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on April 27, 2015, 01:09:24 PM
Surely potentially having a "will they, won't they" situation through to the start of pre-season training in July will affect our close season recruitment plans? Possibly not being able to do anything until then will put us on the back foot.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on April 27, 2015, 01:12:38 PM
Have to say I feel very uneasy about all of this. Don't get me wrong I sometimes get irritated with Peace over his lack of ambition (about time they bloody did the stadium) but overall he has been very good for this club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on April 27, 2015, 01:33:25 PM
I'm a taj excited about this but also very apprehensive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on April 27, 2015, 01:37:30 PM
I see too many horror stories for my liking from foreign investors at clubs.

I would have been happy keeping Peace, obviously he wants to move on though. I am way more nervous about it than I am excited.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 27, 2015, 02:46:53 PM
Surely potentially having a "will they, won't they" situation through to the start of pre-season training in July will affect our close season recruitment plans? Possibly not being able to do anything until then will put us on the back foot.

For the sale to complete by then the club will know how serious or otherwise any potential bidder is by the middle of next month. At that point it will either be going ahead or not. Unless the new ownership want sweeping changes to the personnel involved there is no reason why we cannot proceed on a business as usual basis, it is not as if the club is insolvent and waiting to be bailed out by the new ownership.
Typically we will do very little business prior to July in any event.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on April 27, 2015, 03:19:12 PM
Typically we will do very little business prior to July in any event.
And hasn't that worked out well in recent years?!  ;D

Managers/coaches always say that they want as many new players to be signed in time for the start of pre-season training, otherwise the new players seem to spend months having to play catch-up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 27, 2015, 03:46:43 PM
And hasn't that worked out well in recent years?!  ;D

Managers/coaches always say that they want as many new players to be signed in time for the start of pre-season training, otherwise the new players seem to spend months having to play catch-up.

Every coach at every club says the same and every year the vast bulk of deals get done in August and the last two weeks of the window are always the busiest. It probably doesn't matter if the player is getting a pre season somewhere it is the players without clubs that tend to suffer fitness issues. Hence I think the ownership issue is a bit of a red herring provided it is resolved for the beginning July.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on April 27, 2015, 05:58:05 PM
May 31st deadline according to BBC's Pat Murphy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on April 27, 2015, 06:05:15 PM
May 31st deadline according to BBC's Pat Murphy.


Steve Madeley ‏@smadeley_star 
If there's no prospect of selling by end of May Peace will stay. If a deal is in train he won't call it off. Could well go into June.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on April 27, 2015, 06:26:27 PM
Be interesting to see how this develops - won't the owner have to go through a ratification process? That can take anything up to six weeks or more. If a deal is on the cards then I hope it goes through quickly - I saw last summer at another club in the championship how a potential takeover seemingly going through put a halt to their summer preparations and then fell through towards the end of pre-season meaning they were playing catch up in their preparation for the upcoming season.

Personally, I'm not too fussed about whether we get taken over or not. On on the one hand I get a little excited and on the other hand I'm cautious. One thing I do know however is that Jeremy Peace won't be around forever and there is going to come a time where he will pass the mantle over and it appears that time is soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: frazzle on April 27, 2015, 07:06:07 PM
I just can't believe that this could happen. Our club being bought by overseas investors? Our club worth £200m plus?

It doesn't seem long ago that I saw Kevin Donovan walk out the ground to the same car park as the fans and get into a Ford Escort L. How times have changed!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on April 27, 2015, 09:14:11 PM
I don't think the transfer window officially opens until July 1st...think that's been the case previously anyway. Obviously deals can be agreed before then but not completed.

The crucial factor will be how much control the new owner wants (and if he wants strong control, how much football, business and premier league knowledge does he have).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on April 27, 2015, 09:20:53 PM
For what it's worth , I can't see it being 200m . Not a bad interest rate for JP though .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on April 28, 2015, 12:42:38 AM
Not a hugely relevant point but a few articles said some potential buyers are performing DD on us, anybody know who is undertaking that DD?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lonions on April 28, 2015, 06:14:18 PM
I doubt anyone would be doing any real due diligence until a offer has been accepted. Then the buyer has chance to go through the books and do real due diligence.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: we8seals on April 29, 2015, 07:06:07 AM
I just can't believe that this could happen. Our club being bought by overseas investors? Our club worth £200m plus?

It doesn't seem long ago that I saw Kevin Donovan walk out the ground to the same car park as the fans and get into a Ford Escort L. How times have changed!

And the football now is less entertaining than then. And the players certainly had more connection with the fans ( by and large). You can continue to throw millions at football and it does not improve the game just the bank balance of Bentley dealers
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on April 29, 2015, 08:03:29 AM
And the football now is less entertaining than then. And the players certainly had more connection with the fans ( by and large). You can continue to throw millions at football and it does not improve the game just the bank balance of Bentley dealers

I think you are right, the more money there is in football the less connection there is between fans, the club and the players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on April 29, 2015, 09:31:42 AM
The death of the spirit/ soul of football = Sky are the root cause. The Premier League (with way-over paid players) is the symptom. English match going and TV watching fans are the victims (e.g. around the World TV subscriptions are much cheaper).

Unless all clubs / fans unite and e.g. start leaving empty seats across the whole league, the model won't change. Sky nor the Premier league want empty seats during their lucrative broadcasts around the World.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on April 29, 2015, 09:42:01 AM
The death of the spirit/ soul of football = Sky are the root cause. The Premier League (with way-over paid players) is the symptom. English match going and TV watching fans are the victims (e.g. around the World TV subscriptions are much cheaper).

Unless all clubs / fans unite and e.g. start leaving empty seats across the whole league, the model won't change. Sky nor the Premier league want empty seats during their lucrative broadcasts around the World.

The problem is they've got our balls in a vice. They know how much we love our clubs and that enough of us will continue to cough up. Given how wealthy the clubs are these days and how little match day revenues produce compared to tv deals it all seems so unnecessary.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on April 29, 2015, 12:30:53 PM
Really hope we don't get a new owner who doesn't give a fig about the clubs tradition and uses any old kit, who appoints a cheap useless Irvine type coach, who presides after one disaster transfer window after another and whams up ticket prices by 14%.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 30, 2015, 08:36:19 AM
The death of the spirit/ soul of football = Sky are the root cause. The Premier League (with way-over paid players) is the symptom. English match going and TV watching fans are the victims (e.g. around the World TV subscriptions are much cheaper).

Unless all clubs / fans unite and e.g. start leaving empty seats across the whole league, the model won't change. Sky nor the Premier league want empty seats during their lucrative broadcasts around the World.

Not sure how not attending games affects SKY, I would definitely hurt the premier league and the clubs but the only thing that would hurt SKY is a lack of subscriptions surely. Sky couldn't care less if the stadiums are empty as long as people are watching in pubs and at home.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on April 30, 2015, 12:52:18 PM
Not sure how not attending games affects SKY, I would definitely hurt the premier league and the clubs but the only thing that would hurt SKY is a lack of subscriptions surely. Sky couldn't care less if the stadiums are empty as long as people are watching in pubs and at home.

If the games are played in empty stadiums, then that devalues the product.

If you saw a game in an empty stadium, versus one in a full stadium, which would you perceive to be better quality, or more important?

Empty stadiums would affect the perceived value of the league, and thus reduce the money the club would get from all angles.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on April 30, 2015, 02:28:28 PM
Our Jeremy doesn't seem to fussed by the fact we fail to fill our (too small) stadium.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on May 04, 2015, 09:36:15 AM
I think we need to get this done as soon as possible. The last thing we want is a summer like last year. The more time we spend buying players the better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 04, 2015, 10:20:32 AM
Whats the panic?
Hasn't JP already said that there's a cut off point by where if the sale is not complete the sale goes onto the back burner. So there should be plenty of time to get the transfer business done.
Historically our main business is done at the last minute anyway.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 04, 2015, 11:10:25 AM
Whats the panic?
Ah, the phrase that's often trotted out regarding Albion's feet-dragging dealings during many a transfer window! Our spectacular failures over the last couple of seasons illustrate how leaving things until the last chance saloon can easily backfire.

Delaying things even further than usual whilst Peace negotiates to make his retirement fortune is likely to cause more problems than it solves.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on May 04, 2015, 11:28:23 AM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tony-pulis-west-broms-summer-9176757 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tony-pulis-west-broms-summer-9176757)

Tony Pulis: West Brom's summer transfer plans on hold

Tony Pulis says that both he and his playing staff are in limbo as far as new contracts are concerned because of the possibility takeover at Albion.

Boaz Myhill - the star of Saturday’s stunning 1-0 victory at Old Trafford - is out of contract with a number of others with one year options or down to their final seasons.

“He (Myhill) is out of contract but the fact of the matter is the club is up for sale at the moment,” the Albion boss said.

“I spoke to the Chairman on Wednesday. At the moment we are still in a little bit of limbo in terms of what we are going to do and what we’re not going to do.

"It’s not just the players who don’t know what’s going to happen next year it is also everybody else around the club.”

Pulis denied the takeover was unsettling his players? “No. That is the situation at the football club but footballers are very resilient in lots of respects. As you saw on Saturday they just get on with it.”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on May 04, 2015, 12:15:58 PM
Come on Mr Peace time is of the essence
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 04, 2015, 01:11:34 PM
On the one hand we are in limbo but not such a state of limbo that it has stopped us having discussions with Sako. Not sure Pulis wants to talk about contracts publicly with 3 games to go and being in "limbo" kills that line of questioning. On the specific of Myhill which I think was the question that was being discussed whether we take up the option or don't makes not the slightest bit of difference to the sale so I am more inclined to think it is a red herring.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on May 04, 2015, 01:36:54 PM
Come on Mr Peace time is of the essence
Hasn't he already said that he'll pull out of a sale if nothing is done by the end of this month because it would mess with the summer plans?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elkiellis on May 04, 2015, 02:55:44 PM
Hasn't he already said that he'll pull out of a sale if nothing is done by the end of this month because it would mess with the summer plans?
Jeremy peace looks after no 1 himself first,he wont pull out if 200m or close is on the table however long it takes
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on May 04, 2015, 02:59:25 PM
Hasn't he already said that he'll pull out of a sale if nothing is done by the end of this month because it would mess with the summer plans?

Any potential buyer will want the club to be well placed for the summer's activities I'd have thought? I can't see this being an issue and I'd be very disappointed in the management team if it becomes one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 04, 2015, 03:06:23 PM
Ah, the phrase that's often trotted out regarding Albion's feet-dragging dealings during many a transfer window! Our spectacular failures over the last couple of seasons illustrate how leaving things until the last chance saloon can easily backfire.

Delaying things even further than usual whilst Peace negotiates to make his retirement fortune is likely to cause more problems than it solves.

Nothings been delayed yet. If JP is as good as his word then there should be no interference with summer signings.
The only concern I have is that TP says that he and other staff are in a state of limbo regarding the future, I would have thought he would be in the loop at least.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on May 04, 2015, 03:37:01 PM
What happens with regards to out of contract players we are supposedly interested in i.e. Sako? If we have to wait until the end of the month then I'm sure players like this will be off elsewhere.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 04, 2015, 04:46:59 PM
What happens with regards to out of contract players we are supposedly interested in i.e. Sako? If we have to wait until the end of the month then I'm sure players like this will be off elsewhere.

Typically contracts do not expire to the end of June and therefore new ones don't start until 1st July ,therefore  providing we are in a position to make contract offers by the end of May it is not an issue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on May 06, 2015, 02:32:30 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else think we could get a potential buyer from India based on the club's stated aim of strengthening links there and the fact Peace is apparently speaking to potential buyers from Asia? It's got huge 'untapped'  potential for the marketing for football generally so could appeal to the money men?

The delegation at the Hawthorns today just made me put 2+2 to together to probably get 25!?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 06, 2015, 03:24:48 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else think we could get a potential buyer from India based on the club's stated aim of strengthening links there and the fact Peace is apparently speaking to potential buyers from Asia? It's got huge 'untapped'  potential for the marketing for football generally so could appeal to the money men?

The delegation at the Hawthorns today just made me put 2+2 to together to probably get 25!?

Allegedly, the potential buyers doing due diligence, are from China, Australia or USA, but I agree,JP does seem to be courting India & as one of the top emerging nations, it would make sense for a buyer to be coming from that part of the world.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on May 06, 2015, 04:41:03 PM
Allegedly, the potential buyers doing due diligence, are from China, Australia or USA, but I agree,JP does seem to be courting India & as one of the top emerging nations, it would make sense for a buyer to be coming from that part of the world.

China, Australia, US or India. That narrows it down to about a third of the worlds population!  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 07, 2015, 09:55:24 AM
China, Australia, US or India. That narrows it down to about a third of the worlds population!  :P

On that basis, its bound to be yet another Russian !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 07, 2015, 09:54:48 PM
I see that Villa are in talks with a consortium led by Paul Smith (ex-Chelsea director) and Tony Adams re a £150m takeover.

Wonder if they are also in the frame to buy us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: fatboy_coach on May 07, 2015, 10:45:50 PM
I see that Villa are in talks with a consortium led by Paul Smith (ex-Chelsea director) and Tony Adams re a £150m takeover.

Wonder if they are also in the frame to buy us?

I hope not, Adams is going to be director of football and I can't see that working well with TP. We've just got rid of that structure and got settled, mind you it'd be typical Albion to want to change again just as we started going in the right direction  :-*
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: CovBaggie on May 07, 2015, 11:43:07 PM
I hope not, Adams is going to be director of football and I can't see that working well with TP. We've just got rid of that structure and got settled, mind you it'd be typical Albion to want to change again just as we started going in the right direction  :-*

We haven't got rid of any structure. Terry Burton is still in charge of recruitment.

What has changed is that Pulis is more involved with the scouting and identifying of players, working with Merv. Burton and Garlick dot the I's and cross the T's.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on May 08, 2015, 12:30:40 AM
We haven't got rid of any structure. Terry Burton is still in charge of recruitment.

What has changed is that Pulis is more involved with the scouting and identifying of players, working with Merv. Burton and Garlick dot the I's and cross the T's.
Yep, TP merely has more authority, the structure remains however.

I would NOT want Adams anywhere near my club though, he is an alcoholic.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on May 09, 2015, 05:50:30 PM
Well, now it's a done deal that we will kick off next season in the prem any takers to JP offer of sale should
now become more apparent to us who they are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: devonbaggiecjaj on May 18, 2015, 06:39:05 PM
Just heard on BBC that Uefa to relax financial fair play rules from next season, will that help or hinder JP's sale
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on May 18, 2015, 06:57:23 PM
Just heard on BBC that Uefa to relax financial fair play rules from next season, will that help or hinder JP's sale
I wouldn't have thought it would hinder any potential sale, but more importantly it would let any buyer inject money into the club I think.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 18, 2015, 07:53:54 PM
Apparently, into nights programme the following message from JP appears.


West Brom edge towards sale

West Bromwich Albion chairman Jeremy Peace has revealed potential new owners have entered due diligence ahead of a potential sale of the Premier League club.

In what he admits could be his final message as owner of the club, Peace - writing in the matchday programnme ahead of Monday night's game against Chelsea - has pledged to avoid a 'long-running saga' if he opts to sell his majority stake.

Peace was at pains to point out that he does not expect any takeover to affect Tony Pulis' position or the club's summer transfer business.

The potential buyers are believed to be from the Far East and the United States, with Peace wanting a deal in place in principle in the next fortnight.

Peace said: "Since announcing in February that I was taking the club to the investment market, I am sure you have read media speculation about interested parties in contact over a possible purchase.

"That process remains on-going and as of this moment, those parties are conducting due diligence on the club.
But let me once again stress that I do not intend this to become a long-running saga which could become counter-productive to our preparations for next season.

"Indeed, those preparations are now underway with a progressive dialogue over targets for the summer.
It is also right to say that, in the discussions that I have conducted with those parties, there is a uniform view about committing to the management model which I believe has served the club so well.

"In short, if there is a change of ownership, the transition should be smooth and devoid of upheaval. Business will continue as normal.

"As things stand, I do not know if this will be my last Hawthorns game as chairman, but I am proud of the fact that when everyone returns next August, Albion will be going into its sixth successive Premier League campaign and the 10th since I became chairman.

"I believe we have made good progress during those years but our beloved old club faces more and even greater challenges in the future."

http://www.football365.com/west-bromwich-albion/9855800/West-Brom-edge-closer-to-sale?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: fatboy_coach on May 18, 2015, 10:18:32 PM
Interesting to hear TP post match say he's got long term plans for the Albion and hopes to have the chance to try to put them in place and JP says in his end of season message that TP might not get all of the players he wants in the summer and it's a work in progress.

Am I being paranoid or are they laying the foundations for a parting of the ways?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 18, 2015, 10:24:14 PM
TP did seem very awkward about committing, however with his boss intimating he could be leaving, is it that surprising??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on May 18, 2015, 10:35:54 PM
No manager that isn't bankrolled by a multi billionaire can guarantee he'll get all the players he wants. That's a cautionary 'bare with' message I don't believe has any real negative connotations. It's an unknown situation at the moment and in the future so I'd prefer a more muted response to it and hope for the best.

Heck 'I have long term plans for Albion' is the only part of that I'd read into.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on May 18, 2015, 10:44:26 PM
The shortest after match media interview. I hope he's got a flight he doesn't want to miss.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 19, 2015, 01:02:28 AM
Obviously chairman says Pulis might not get every player he wants allied to a short post match interview means the manager is on the verge of quitting  :o

In all seriousness Peace's statement says that all the potential buyers are committed to business as usual and I don't think the takeover if it happens will make very much difference in the short term.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on May 19, 2015, 02:26:39 AM
The potential for a takeover is quite unsettling. It seems pretty clear that its consortiums after us to run us as a business. Which they're unlikely to do as well as Peace even if they have good intentions, and at worst could be an interference who cause a lot of trouble like the Venky's at Blackburn as well as numerous others. Being a good chairman is a pretty difficult job. You can see with Morgan at Wolves how someone with completely good intentions and their heart in the right place can still make a real mess of things.

Hopefully whoever takes over will keep us financially much the way we are without squeezing our budget to milk the television money, and leaves the football matters in the hands of football people, which really was the turning point for Peace and us being a yo-yo club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 19, 2015, 06:27:06 AM
The potential for a takeover is quite unsettling. It seems pretty clear that its consortiums after us to run us as a business. Which they're unlikely to do as well as Peace even if they have good intentions, and at worst could be an interference who cause a lot of trouble like the Venky's at Blackburn as well as numerous others. Being a good chairman is a pretty difficult job. You can see with Morgan at Wolves how someone with completely good intentions and their heart in the right place can still make a real mess of things.

Hopefully whoever takes over will keep us financially much the way we are without squeezing our budget to milk the television money, and leaves the football matters in the hands of football people, which really was the turning point for Peace and us being a yo-yo club.

Hopefully whoever takes over offers JP a job!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on May 19, 2015, 10:30:33 AM
I wouldn't have thought it would hinder any potential sale, but more importantly it would let any buyer inject money into the club I think.

Aren't the UEFA FFP rules just to cover European competitions and nothing to do with the domestic leagues?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sessegod on May 19, 2015, 11:09:48 PM
Aren't the UEFA FFP rules just to cover European competitions and nothing to do with the domestic leagues?

good question, i think they are similar and if you want to play in Europe you have to adhere to them. but it does beg the question if they are the same why didnt city get fined by the PL or FA or is it all just left to UEFA.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sessegod on May 19, 2015, 11:13:12 PM
After further research the rules are similar however the PL permit a bigger loss
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 20, 2015, 08:21:00 AM
The proposed relaxing of the UEFA rules would bring them more in line with the Premier League rules. However in terms of the takeover it makes very little difference, the sugar daddy model is dead, nobody is remotely interested in throwing millions at a football club in a vague hope of turning a pigs ear into a silk purse. Equally ffp has stopped owners racking up massive operating losses and propping up the balance sheet with debt and therefore the most destructive type of ownership has been greatly curtailed.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on May 28, 2015, 10:06:40 AM
unofficial deadline looming.

Do we expect a public statement from Mr Peace on May 31st if bets are off?

Can we assume silence suggests wheels are in motion?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 28, 2015, 10:33:17 AM
unofficial deadline looming.

Do we expect a public statement from Mr Peace on May 31st if bets are off?

Can we assume silence suggests wheels are in motion?

Having set a deadline of 31st May I think Peace will make some sort of statement shortly thereafter although it might not be a definitive one.

I wouldn't assume silence means anything in particular. We know that there are at least two parties undertaking due diligence at this moment. Either an offer or offers will be forthcoming or not. If the offers are way below Peaces valuation I think that will be the end of the matter the sales process will only continue if the offer is acceptable or at least close enough to warrant further discussion. 

Watch this space
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 28, 2015, 10:49:29 AM
Having set a deadline of 31st May I think Peace will make some sort of statement shortly thereafter although it might not be a definitive one.

I wouldn't assume silence means anything in particular. We know that there are at least two parties undertaking due diligence at this moment. Either an offer or offers will be forthcoming or not. If the offers are way below Peaces valuation I think that will be the end of the matter the sales process will only continue if the offer is acceptable or at least close enough to warrant further discussion. 

Watch this space

Where's the deadline of 31st May come from?
The only date I saw confirmed was that he would walk away if the deal was not completed by the start of training in early July?

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2015/04/27/foreign-investors-close-to-west-bromwich-albion-bid/?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 28, 2015, 12:39:33 PM
When the sale was initially announced the Peace set the 31st May deadline for interested parties to come forward with a proposal and complete due diligence. Completion will obviously take longer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on May 30, 2015, 01:37:28 PM
It's gone very quiet on the takeover front all of a sudden. Surely we will hear one thing or another about this week?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on May 31, 2015, 05:35:35 PM
I have a feeling the American backers are Intuit, a Californian computer software company, who own QuickBooks are main shirt sponsors. The two owners are very wealthy Americans, the ones a Billionaire. As for the others I have no idea. I just hope to hear some new news this week, it does seem to have dragged on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on May 31, 2015, 08:05:14 PM
Is that just a hunch Jimbo? If anyone ITK could say if they think they may happen or not would be great please. I am not sure if it's something I want but it would be interesting times
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on May 31, 2015, 08:49:46 PM
We're not getti9ng sold this year. Maybe next year or the year after but it won't happen this upcoming season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 02, 2015, 05:26:56 PM
Surely there would be a statement by now if nothing was happening?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Nathan on June 02, 2015, 05:56:00 PM
I have a feeling the American backers are Intuit, a Californian computer software company, who own QuickBooks are main shirt sponsors. The two owners are very wealthy Americans, the ones a Billionaire. As for the others I have no idea. I just hope to hear some new news this week, it does seem to have dragged on.

That is definitely what I'm led to believe. The rumour as far back as last summer was that the shirt sponsors (Quick Books) had something to do with a potential takeover.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 02, 2015, 07:44:15 PM
The co-founders of Intuit are Tom Proulx and Scott Cook. Both are billionaires Cook is still involved with the business whereas Prolx is no longer involved but is working on other projects such as Netpulse. Neither have any previous interest in sports ownership as far as I can make out. The purchase price is well within their means but they just seem a little unlikely to be the sort of people to suddenly buy an English football club unless they were the financial muscle behind a more traditional sports investor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on June 02, 2015, 10:19:56 PM
Another £72 mill in the coffers for this season's performance.

Can't hurt any investor to see we are very much a mid prem team now. Even out-earning the MASSIVE...... villa?!!

If only we were semi-fancied we'd pick up more than the minimum TV games and thus another £5mill or so?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 04, 2015, 09:43:45 AM
According to E & S there's a couple of groups completed due diligence and are impressed. Now it comes down to the asking price. Groups from Far East and America. Potentially one from Australia. Surely this should be the easy part as they wouldn't have completed due diligence if not going to put in a proper offer
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 04, 2015, 10:19:42 AM
Sounds positive hopefully we will here more in next couple weeks I got a feeling the group from the far east might take us on just a feeling.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on June 04, 2015, 10:23:14 AM
Another £72 mill in the coffers for this season's performance.

Can't hurt any investor to see we are very much a mid prem team now. Even out-earning the MASSIVE...... villa?!!

If only we were semi-fancied we'd pick up more than the minimum TV games and thus another £5mill or so?!

I remember deadly Doug at one time after he sold out Vilia coming to a few of our games were im pretty sure he & JP would have talked about the Good the Bad & the Ugly things about Selling & what he would do different so lets hope he was listening & makes the right choice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tgd26 on June 04, 2015, 12:00:57 PM
Just thinking about this topic and it occurred to me that a club in our position may be able to attract a different type of investor (foreign or British) who is looking at a different model compared to existing Premier League owners.

With FFP restrictions and our healthy finances it may well be an opportunity for a new owner to come in and essentially keep things on an even keel (in a way similar to JP has) as opposed to coming in and throwing money around to either (pay off existing debts, fund a new team that will get promoted out of the Champ and into the Premiership, or in the case of Man City and Chelsea, taking an already established large team and turning them into title contenders).

It could be that the new owners are aware that they can’t act like sugar daddies in the same way the owners at Fulham, QPR and to a lesser extent Villa have done in recent years and try to buy their way to the top of the league. They might be happy increasing the spending above what we are used to  while not letting things get out of control financially in the hope of toppling the big 4.

I imagine a new owner may look to expand things on the commercial side, move us into new markets from a publicity perspective while slowly trying to fund the team to the point where it is challenging for Europa league places and going on decent cup runs.

That way the club wouldn’t be put at risk financially (neither would their personal fortune) and the new owners would still get all of the personal\business publicity that a lot of these guys\organisations are seeking by owning a Premier League team.

I think the sugar daddy days are over (as has been discussed here previously) but I still think there are a number of reasons why a club like the Albion would be an interesting proposition for investors looking to get into football for commercial reasons.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: thelawyer on June 04, 2015, 12:08:02 PM
But FFP regs are likely to be relaxed imminently so no one can be sure what a new owner has in mind. Nothing we can do to change it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 04, 2015, 12:30:17 PM
But FFP regs are likely to be relaxed imminently so no one can be sure what a new owner has in mind. Nothing we can do to change it.

We have no idea what is heading our way and how competent or otherwise they are but the loosening of the UEFA FFP rules and will only bring them into line with those in the Premier League, which would not allow us to ship the hundreds of millions in losses that it would take to turn us into Chelsea or Man city.

In truth the likelihood of us being snapped up by the next Oligarch off the rank was always remote we are more likely to get a pound shop Abramovich like Gydanck who has huge ambitions but not the resources to back it up and those are the most destructive of owners.

My hope is that we attract sound investors who will try and grow the club without putting it a risk or saddling it with debts that can only be paid if we achieve a certain level of success on the pitch. The latest reports would suggest there are still multiple parties interested having gone through the due diligence process, I think we might be quite close to an new era.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 04, 2015, 12:41:02 PM
Question is when should we cut it off to concentrate on recruitment ? I would say another couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 04, 2015, 01:09:48 PM
Question is when should we cut it off to concentrate on recruitment ? I would say another couple of weeks.

As part of the due diligence process the club would have submitted a summary of the current trading position and a budget for the coming year, remember the last published accounts are 12 months old. Given that player wages and fees are the two biggest items of expenditure the budget for those items would include this summers activity.

If any of the parties want to proceed they will do so on the basis of that budget, so provided we operate within the budget there is nothing preventing us from signing players in the window. The only issue would be if the potential owners wanted a say in who we signed and that in itself is a huge red flag that we have the wrong sort of owners.

 If as reported they have all signed up to business as usual then there is no problem. The reason why  football clubs are often put into limbo during a change of ownership is because they are trading at a loss and the current owners do not want to put any more money and without a new injection of cash they are unable to move forward, however we are not in that situation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on June 04, 2015, 01:19:14 PM
Question is when should we cut it off to concentrate on recruitment ? I would say another couple of weeks.
Can we not multi task?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 04, 2015, 01:28:12 PM
1. Employees are told its business as usual in a takeover or buy-in situation.
2. Despite what JP says in public if a suitor comes waving the cheque book he WILL listen and engage.

Reality is there is no "real" cut-off date, IMO.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 04, 2015, 01:33:01 PM
Can we not multi task?
Well I'm guessing TP along with others are on holiday for the majority of June this gives us plenty of time to get new investors in my eyes but like I said earlier I would have a cut of point off the 21st maybe something along those lines, Shouldn't interfere with each other on that front.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on June 04, 2015, 01:39:22 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-bromwich-albion-latest-potential-9388616

Still ongoing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 04, 2015, 02:32:13 PM
Wang Jianlin mentioned as potential owner on the comments on the Brum Mail link.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on June 04, 2015, 03:26:33 PM
Can we not multi task?

No doubt we can, but its not efficient to sign players when you think your budget is £15m if in fact it is £35m.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on June 04, 2015, 03:34:27 PM
Wang Jianlin mentioned as potential owner on the comments on the Brum Mail link.

Googled him! Think that would give us the wealthiest owner in world football!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 04, 2015, 03:40:51 PM
Go get Mesi and Ronaldo :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on June 04, 2015, 03:46:28 PM
Wang Jianlin

As a Chinese billionaire pays €45 million for a large stake in the Spanish champions, Goal takes a closer look at the man behind the lucrative deal

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2015/01/21/8162922/he-now-owns-20-of-atletico-but-who-is-wang-jianlin
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 04, 2015, 04:10:28 PM
Very exciting stuff! Let's hope it's true although I would question where it was originally mentioned.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bradleysrocket on June 04, 2015, 04:18:07 PM
Does the fact he has 20% of atletico not rule him out?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 04, 2015, 04:20:42 PM
Does the fact he has 20% of atletico not rule him out?

The Watford owners own them, Granada in Spain and Udinese in Italy so it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 04, 2015, 04:21:57 PM
Does the fact he has 20% of atletico not rule him out?

But he isn't a majority share holder. Isnt the rule you can't be a majority share holder at more then One club? I'm sure you can own shares in more then one club as long as it isn't majority.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 04, 2015, 04:28:00 PM
I just hope whoever does take us over (if anyone), then they are good owners. Hopefully it's more like Leicesters owners and less Venky's for instance.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on June 04, 2015, 04:30:49 PM
But he isn't a majority share holder. Isnt the rule you can't be a majority share holder at more then One club? I'm sure you can own shares in more then one club as long as it isn't majority.

I remember something when Chelsea played CSKA about it being 10%. I think that was a champions league rule though. He can sell a bit of AM when he gets us there!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 04, 2015, 04:36:00 PM
But he isn't a majority share holder. Isnt the rule you can't be a majority share holder at more then One club? I'm sure you can own shares in more then one club as long as it isn't majority.

I think you are correct, ie, Ashley has majority of shares in Newc and this precludes him buying too many in Rangers
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on June 04, 2015, 06:17:49 PM
26th richest man in the world in 2014. would be insane if it was him who bought us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 04, 2015, 06:21:57 PM
26th richest man in the world in 2014. would be insane if it was him who bought us.

And through Occam's Razor, he won't be buying us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 04, 2015, 07:02:16 PM
So there is nothing concrete regarding Wang Jianlin?

I won't get excited just yet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 04, 2015, 08:07:30 PM
Wang Jianlin mentioned as potential owner on the comments on the Brum Mail link.

That guy is worth an absolute fortune...richest man in china!

net worth between $25-37 billion

Be shocked if he was too buy us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 04, 2015, 08:17:43 PM
So there is nothing concrete regarding Wang Jianlin?

I won't get excited just yet.
From what I gather, the whole 'Wang Jialin' thing is purely from a speculative comment made on an E&S article earlier, the comment was something like "I heard it's Wang Jialin, one of the richest men on earth".

As far as transfer speculation goes, that has to be the most tenuous, made-up link ever, and even if it was Jialin, I am certain that the guy who made the comment was clueless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on June 04, 2015, 08:24:46 PM
JP keeps EVERYTHING close to his chest. You rarely hear rumours about key issues emerging from The Hawthorns unless they've been sanctioned by JP, so don't expect any clues about the likely new owners until JP says so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 04, 2015, 08:38:19 PM
ive heard its TJS :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on June 04, 2015, 08:40:20 PM
JP keeps EVERYTHING close to his chest. You rarely hear rumours about key issues emerging from The Hawthorns unless they've been sanctioned by JP, so don't expect any clues about the likely new owners until JP says so.

If its not the richest man in China after all this speculation, I will be fuming! ;D

It'll be a China crisis! :-*
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 04, 2015, 08:41:11 PM
If its not the richest man in China after all this speculation, I will be fuming! ;D

It'll be a China crisis! :-*


Black man rea
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on June 04, 2015, 10:04:08 PM
As much as the official line is that this wont affect transfers it will, dependent on who owns the club come 1st July we would be shopping in very different pools, why sign several free or low value players when we might have a large transfer budget to use.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 04, 2015, 10:14:32 PM
As much as the official line is that this wont affect transfers it will, dependent on who owns the club come 1st July we would be shopping in very different pools, why sign several free or low value players when we might have a large transfer budget to use.

Would gignac depend on the owner do you think?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 04, 2015, 10:21:32 PM
Doesn't a takeover take around 6 weeks to be ratified as well by the FA until they can take part in their ownership duties?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 04, 2015, 10:48:21 PM
As much as the official line is that this wont affect transfers it will, dependent on who owns the club come 1st July we would be shopping in very different pools, why sign several free or low value players when we might have a large transfer budget to use.

I honestly don't think the budget changes much this window regardless of the ownership and in a way I hope it doesn't. The worst owners come in all guns blazing in their eagerness to play with their new toy and generally burn a huge amount of cash before the realisation dawns that it is n't a game of fantasy manager.

If the new owners have a willingness to invest I would rather they do it gradually over the long term and mainly in the club's infrastructure rather than some eye catching additions to the first team squad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on June 04, 2015, 11:00:31 PM
Doesn't a takeover take around 6 weeks to be ratified as well by the FA until they can take part in their ownership duties?

My point is that if it is clear we will be sold after 2-3 weeks we wont be bringing in any Baird types. The window does not shut until September as well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on June 04, 2015, 11:02:57 PM
Would gignac depend on the owner do you think?

No the quality likes of him would go ahead no matter what as he would fit in nearly all teams.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 04, 2015, 11:06:36 PM
No the quality likes of him would go ahead no matter what as he would fit in nearly all teams.

Do you think he'll sign?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aixelsyd on June 04, 2015, 11:52:29 PM
OK here is some more "hearsay" and "imaginings" on the possibility of Wang Jianlin being a possible new owner.......

In the reports we have seen over the last few months they always talk of possible bids from Far Eastern and American interests.

What is less mentioned is a bid from Australia..... so who could (if they exist) these Australians be?

Honestly no one with the financial clout or interest springs to mind  :(

BUT.....

Last year, Wang Jianlin's "Wanda Group" formed "Wanda Australia" and launched a HK$12.5 billion (AUS$1.57 billion) investment in a major Gold Coast/Surfer's Paradise QLD, Real Estate and Hotel/Resort development.

It was also noted that in the build up to the 2018 completion date, that they would also have a marketing drive to make the development a "household name" in Asia and Europe.

So would owning and Sponsoring a Premier League team help do that?

It might explain the connection to Australia.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Downunder Stripes on June 05, 2015, 12:18:16 AM
Wanda, certainly very active lately..
http://www.afr.com/business/media-and-marketing/chinas-dalian-wanda-buys-cinema-chain-hoyts-20150603-ghfsur
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Semaj Riatsila on June 05, 2015, 01:34:38 AM

Black man rea

nah! It's all just....

"Wishful Thinking"

Lol
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Yacob on June 05, 2015, 02:49:37 AM
Richest man in China sounds good to me  :D wont believe anything until I see an official press release though
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 05, 2015, 07:10:52 AM
Some of the comments here seem to be overlooking the FFP rules
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 05, 2015, 07:39:29 AM
If it does happen then at least the catering will improve.............

I could use a spring roll or two at half time!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 05, 2015, 02:57:24 PM
Some of the comments here seem to be overlooking the FFP rules
The FFP was a flash in the pan and has been relaxed massively. To my knowledge, only Man City truly got burned by it, even then it was only ever in force for last season and as I say has lessened to the point where it's more of a formality then genuinely harming a clubs (excessive) spending.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 05, 2015, 05:55:25 PM
Sons of Albion are stirring the pot with regards to the Chinese guy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Greenock Baggie on June 05, 2015, 05:56:21 PM
Sons of Albion are stirring the pot with regards to the Chinese guy.
Was just about to post exactly this, are they guessing or is there something in the off for tonight according to them ??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on June 05, 2015, 06:02:21 PM
Was just about to post exactly this, are they guessing or is there something in the off for tonight according to them ??
A Twitter account for someone called Jonathon Liu tweeted that he would post exciting news regarding the WBA takeover tonight. Chris Lepkowski also follows him.

As far as I can tell he's some kind of Chinese sports journalist. His account only has a few tweets and a small number of followers which is always suspicious but he said its because this is his new English language account to follow his existing Chinese one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 05, 2015, 06:03:21 PM
Well it all spiralled from that one comment I mentioned last night from the Birmingham Mail article.

They have just posted this link. No idea who this person is by the way.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonLiuSport/status/606818095391510528?s=04 (https://mobile.twitter.com/JonLiuSport/status/606818095391510528?s=04)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: popbaggie28 on June 05, 2015, 06:52:24 PM
Sons of Albion just put on Facebook"been sold to the Chinese billionaire been told by a source inside the club"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Greenock Baggie on June 05, 2015, 06:54:38 PM
Yu rikee saw finger  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 05, 2015, 07:11:50 PM
There may be a Chinese based offer on the table and there maybe developments shortly although if they being announced in the Far East it is unlikely to until markets open about in about 5 hours. However aside from the the now infamous comment on the B'ham Mail article there is nothing concrete to suggest that bid is from Wang Jialin and given his recent purchase of 20% of Atheltico I suspect it isn't

 Or indeed it could be the usual twitter storm and nothing much is about to happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 05, 2015, 07:17:13 PM
There may be a Chinese based offer on the table and there maybe developments shortly although if they being announced in the Far East it is unlikely to until markets open about in about 5 hours. However aside from the the now infamous comment on the B'ham Mail article there is nothing concrete to suggest that bid is from Wang Jialin and given his recent purchase of 20% of Atheltico I suspect it isn't

 Or indeed it could be the usual twitter storm and nothing much is about to happen.

Is the market open tomorrow?  Its Saturday
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 05, 2015, 07:23:00 PM
Is the market open tomorrow?  Its Saturday

So today's Friday really!!??  :o Without football at a weekend my life lacks structure.  Good point which just makes me think it less likely there is a a big announcement in the wings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ska-dForLife-WBA on June 05, 2015, 07:27:03 PM
Chris Lepkowski's dismissed the rumours as a figment of social media imagination.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 05, 2015, 07:41:19 PM
Well that's that one then. Next!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: popbaggie28 on June 05, 2015, 07:49:28 PM
Chris Lepkowski's dismissed the rumours as a figment of social media imagination.
where did you see that mate? Just had a look at his twitter feed and nothing on there?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 05, 2015, 08:12:19 PM
where did you see that mate? Just had a look at his twitter feed and nothing on there?

I can't find anything either.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Downunder Stripes on June 05, 2015, 08:13:00 PM
Richyoko ‏@Richbut
@chrislepkowski heard anything about the richest bloke in Asia buying the club? Or is this hogwash?
Chris Lepkowski
Chris Lepkowski –  ‏@chrislepkowski

@Richbut think the latter bit of your tweet is about right. Figment of social media's imagination
10:28 AM - 5 Jun 2015
1 RETWEET



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on June 05, 2015, 08:20:06 PM
Far East owner I think would be bad for us judging by how the recent ones have worked out
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on June 05, 2015, 09:29:34 PM
Far East owner I think would be bad for us judging by how the recent ones have worked out

If you think the pinstripes were controversial, the new shirt for West Bromwich Dragons will be a humdinger!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Greenock Baggie on June 05, 2015, 10:28:35 PM
If you think the pinstripes were controversial, the new shirt for West Bromwich Dragons will be a humdinger!
All pink so I hear  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 05, 2015, 11:53:31 PM
Far East owner I think would be bad for us judging by how the recent ones have worked out

Better than an American one. The far east would make us a truly global club.

Don't forget who the first British club to tour China was.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on June 06, 2015, 12:17:27 AM
Better than an American one. The far east would make us a truly global club.

Don't forget who the first British club to tour China was.

But how would we defend free kicks? "Seen one wall you've seen them all," J Trewick.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 06, 2015, 07:32:36 AM
Ha ha. They did show a bit of thickness on that tour, Bryan Robson said he preferred Spain as he could sunbathe and drink, and Wile was surprised when they had Chinese food for their meals.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 06, 2015, 07:44:31 AM
Is that jonathan liu a genuine person to follow about the sale? He keeps tweeting to say he will have news about it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 06, 2015, 08:02:34 AM
A lot of rumours flying about at the moment, but just rumours.

I do think we will we be hearing something one way or the other pretty soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on June 06, 2015, 08:06:17 AM
Is that jonathan liu a genuine person to follow about the sale? He keeps tweeting to say he will have news about it.

We need to try and find somebody who can translate his Chinese account, see if he's at all credible!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 06, 2015, 09:06:41 AM
Google translate will do it. I've seen someone else post the same thing on facebook saying there source in london has said the same thing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on June 06, 2015, 10:12:51 AM
Chris Lepowski and Steve Madeley have rubbished the rumours so I think the Jonathin Liu guy is talking pooh! Probably a Saido trying to wind us up ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 06, 2015, 10:29:05 AM
I do enjoy this time of year, all that yesterday spiraled from a name being printed in an article to it being a done deal in hours over twitter.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on June 06, 2015, 11:07:54 AM
I think we should wait for a price to be agreed before we get excited.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 06, 2015, 11:09:54 AM
I think we should wait for a price to be agreed before we get excited.

Anything close do you think? Hopefully the new owners have a bit of money
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on June 06, 2015, 11:16:08 AM
Anything close do you think? Hopefully the new owners have a bit of money

Unfortunately only Jeremy knows the answer to that!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: number69 on June 06, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
And presumably the buyers will know!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Laurie Cunningham on June 06, 2015, 04:17:02 PM
Is this a wind up about Chinese billion heir taking over wba ? i suspect it is  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 06, 2015, 04:23:30 PM
Is this a wind up about Chinese billion heir taking over wba ? i suspect it is  ::)

People really think a Chinese billionaire wants to buy us? I have a feeling some will be left Dissapointed when/if this take over happens.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on June 06, 2015, 05:13:12 PM
I think we should wait for a price to be agreed before we get excited.

Which is why I can't see it happening. IMO the price being banded around is unrealistic.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on June 06, 2015, 06:26:52 PM
Just reported on twitter that the chinese billionaire is flying to UK TO COMPLETE THE DEAL on Monday. BIg Big news if its true which he says is 100% true!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 06, 2015, 06:31:17 PM
That liu just tweeted... @JonLiuSport: #wba epl fans. I have exciting news. As I promised...@JonLiuSport: I am told earlier today that Australia group and Josh Harris from USA have pulled out of West Bromwich deal...@JonLiuSport: Jianlin takeover should be announced on Monday. He is going to england tonight or tomorrow. I am informed this is 100% true....@JonLiuSport: Full article tomorrow, where discuss Jianlin hope of #ucl football in future of West Bromwich and bigger stadia
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slimboyfat1972 on June 06, 2015, 06:31:26 PM
Just reported on twitter that the chinese billionaire is flying to UK TO COMPLETE THE DEAL on Monday. BIg Big news if its true which he says is 100% true!
Just seen that as well.he also stated the Australian buyer has withdrawn their offer.

Only Twitter I know but can always hope  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on June 06, 2015, 06:36:30 PM
Which is why I can't see it happening. IMO the price being banded around is unrealistic.

Well I guess you have to know the asset value, fixed costs (Ground, stands, academy etc., and variable costs, (Players resale) and the cash flow, future earnings, potential projected profits, potential liabilities etc. before you can value any business.

As Peace is (I think) an accountant he ought to know where to pitch the value as a starter for negotiations. The investors make an initial valuation, if it's in the right ball park then they are allowed to carry out due diligence. This I believe is to ascertain if the valuation is realistic, then they try to negotiate down on the initial bid based on any risks or what they perceive as risks, for example players contracts, player valuation, pensions etc etc.

So while it is a long way to go, the initial offers were probably in the right ball park and Peace would have checked out the investors ability to pay
 ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on June 06, 2015, 06:38:12 PM
Need someone ITK on here or Steve Madeley to come out and dispel the rumours. They are getting out of hand all due to this guy who could be a 14 year old Wolves fan in the wind up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on June 06, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Can't believe any of you lot are actually believe this guy! ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on June 06, 2015, 06:51:56 PM
If a takeover was as imminent as that our national media would have been all over it by now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on June 06, 2015, 06:53:38 PM
Some random guy on twitter said it so it must be true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 06, 2015, 06:59:11 PM
Just reported on twitter that the chinese billionaire is flying to UK TO COMPLETE THE DEAL on Monday. BIg Big news if its true which he says is 100% true!
it all sounds like an ice lolly joke to me.
billionaires I would think get someone they employ to do all the work. just cant see a man of his wealth dashing across continents to buy WBA.
why have a dog and bark yourself springs to mind. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 06, 2015, 07:03:54 PM
it all sounds like an ice lolly joke to me.
billionaires I would think get someone they employ to do all the work. just cant see a man of his wealth dashing across continents to buy WBA.
why have a dog and bark yourself springs to mind.

It depends on why you are doing it.  If it's being done to globally promote his business brand then you would surely expect him to be present for the announcement and related PR

I suspect @jonliusport is ITK (somebody is bound to be and the club itself has said a deal is close) but may well be saying more than he should be saying
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on June 06, 2015, 07:04:59 PM
Well someone has been doing due diligence for the last 6 weeks - the boss needs to sign a contract so its possible there is an element of truth. The reporting guy does seem to work for Chinadaily.  If not he had gone to extraordinary lengths for a wind up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 06, 2015, 07:20:38 PM
It depends on why you are doing it.  If it's being done to globally promote his business brand then you would surely expect him to be present for the announcement and related PR

I suspect @jonliusport is ITK (somebody is bound to be and the club itself has said a deal is close) but may well be saying more than he should be saying
fair point, I own 2 small food outlets on the coast but I don't walk around the sea front with a billboard on my back.
I get the kids to do it .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on June 06, 2015, 07:40:58 PM
fair point, I own 2 small food outlets on the coast but I don't walk around the sea front with a billboard on my back.
I get the kids to do it .

If you were buying another food outlet then you would go yourself to complete the deal. Not send the kids. :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 06, 2015, 07:54:02 PM
Well come Monday we will know, there is no way back given how specific the source has been with his predictions but I am amazed that a lone journalist has this story and nobody else in the UK media or anywhere else for that matter is running it.

 On the balance of probability this is nonsense but I could of course be wrong
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 06, 2015, 08:01:16 PM
If you were buying another food outlet then you would go yourself to complete the deal. Not send the kids. :D
if I was a billionaire I wouldn't be doing anything except watching the skimpily dressed
girls enjoying a dip in my swimming pool.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on June 06, 2015, 08:07:11 PM
Most of the premier league clubs are owned by people with more brass than our Jeremy . Why shouldn't it be our turn .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 06, 2015, 08:15:22 PM
Most of the premier league clubs are owned by people with more brass than our Jeremy . Why shouldn't it be our turn .
I'm undecided whether its good or bad for us to be taken over, cannot see us ever breaking into the top 8 with our current owner and finances because jp has us punching above our weight and gets credit for doing so, a new owner with wealth may elevate us to higher places but its gone badly wrong at many other clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 06, 2015, 08:27:44 PM
I'm undecided whether its good or bad for us to be taken over, cannot see us ever breaking into the top 8 with our current owner and finances because jp has us punching above our weight and gets credit for doing so, a new owner with wealth may elevate us to higher places but its gone badly wrong at many other clubs.
Sometimes you got to go for glory a couple them clubs have won trophies and and in my eyes have fallen league wise but as a result play in a much more entertaining league in the one beneath us. All about opinions if our new owner has money serious money would he want Pulis to be the man to put it all in place.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on June 06, 2015, 08:41:54 PM
I'm undecided whether its good or bad for us to be taken over, cannot see us ever breaking into the top 8 with our current owner and finances because jp has us punching above our weight and gets credit for doing so, a new owner with wealth may elevate us to higher places but its gone badly wrong at many other clubs.

Me to but one thing is for sure & that is that JP wants to sell. Lets hope he thinks has much about the club has he has said he does.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on June 06, 2015, 08:42:50 PM
I'm undecided whether its good or bad for us to be taken over, cannot see us ever breaking into the top 8 with our current owner and finances because jp has us punching above our weight and gets credit for doing so, a new owner with wealth may elevate us to higher places but its gone badly wrong at many other clubs.

I‘m all for it. The last couple of years have been very stale and without major change I can‘t see things getting better. Whether we become the next Chelsea or the next Pompey at least it will be different.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on June 06, 2015, 08:48:44 PM
We most certainly do not want to become a Portsmouth . I would rather JP stop and take an income each year , than to sell to a bunch of crooks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 06, 2015, 08:54:59 PM
I‘m all for it. The last couple of years have been very stale and without major change I can‘t see things getting better. Whether we become the next Chelsea or the next Pompey at least it will be different.
Agree risky but for me the premiership is about finances not about supporters.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 06, 2015, 09:11:58 PM
So people genuinely believe the 14th richest man in the world is about to fly over from China to buy us? The story came about via a comment left on the Birmingham mail I'm told it's not him and no disrespect but when a new Twitter account comes about and claim it's "100 percent true" nine times out of ten it's not 100 percent true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on June 06, 2015, 09:18:17 PM
One flew over the cuckoos nest springs to mind . I hope I'm wrong .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 06, 2015, 09:24:16 PM
So people genuinely believe the 14th richest man in the world is about to fly over from China to buy us? The story came about via a comment left on the Birmingham mail I'm told it's not him and no disrespect but when a new Twitter account comes about and claim it's "100 percent true" nine times out of ten it's not 100 percent true.
He's not flying in 38 he's sailing is Chinese junk up the River Tame and docking down the Newton Road before taking a stroll up Forge Lane.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 06, 2015, 10:51:25 PM
Definite fake account, he has used someone else's picture tonight from the game. Type in goal2china in Twitter and they have put a picture up if them at the game an hour ago. He's just tweeted the exact same photo  15 minutes ago.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 06, 2015, 11:27:08 PM
Definite fake account, he has used someone else's picture tonight from the game. Type in goal2china in Twitter and they have put a picture up if them at the game an hour ago. He's just tweeted the exact same photo  15 minutes ago.

It fascinates me how people seem so desperate to believe something when these kind of things appear on social media that they choose to look beyond the obvious wind up nature of the account.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on June 07, 2015, 01:05:08 AM
That liu just tweeted... @JonLiuSport: #wba epl fans. I have exciting news. As I promised...@JonLiuSport: I am told earlier today that Australia group and Josh Harris from USA have pulled out of West Bromwich deal...@JonLiuSport: Jianlin takeover should be announced on Monday. He is going to england tonight or tomorrow. I am informed this is 100% true....@JonLiuSport: Full article tomorrow, where discuss Jianlin hope of #ucl football in future of West Bromwich and bigger stadia

I'm inclined to disbelieve this based on the too much specific detail of UCL football and bigger stadium before any deal is announced. Having said that this guy does appear to want to invest in football and bought a 20% stake in Atletico Madrid in January according to the BBC. There are also Google searches of previous links to Southampton and Sheff Wed.

More intriguingly this link is interesting:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31864427

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on June 07, 2015, 01:43:34 AM
That Chinese guy on Twitter seems to like robbing pictures off TripAdvisor and passing them as his own.. what a wind up merchant he is.

https://twitter.com/JonLiuSport/status/607114328941166592

http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g187323-d1230204-i110173823-Axel_Hotel_Berlin-Berlin.html#110173815

The other picture was robbed too. Load of sh*te.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 07, 2015, 02:05:57 AM
That Chinese guy on Twitter seems to like robbing pictures off TripAdvisor and passing them as his own.. what a wind up merchant he is.

https://twitter.com/JonLiuSport/status/607114328941166592

http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g187323-d1230204-i110173823-Axel_Hotel_Berlin-Berlin.html#110173815

The other picture was robbed too. Load of sh*te.

He didn't need to try too hard to get people to believe him which I find ridiculous. It was obvious from his first couple of tweets there was nothing genuine about any of them. Let's face it all the information he needed was already reported and he just added things on, he must have been wetting himself laughing at everyone retweeting and discussing it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 07, 2015, 10:49:25 AM
Although the link to the Chinese was always somewhat laughable I find it strange there has been no whispers at all to the identity of whoever is interested, if anyone. I'm fully expecting a release soon saying price could not be agreed etc. I'm not sure if this really has ever been on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 07, 2015, 10:51:08 AM
There is a interview on bbc him saying he would invest in a British club. However it would have to be the right one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 07, 2015, 11:34:22 AM
Although the link to the Chinese was always somewhat laughable I find it strange there has been no whispers at all to the identity of whoever is interested, if anyone. I'm fully expecting a release soon saying price could not be agreed etc. I'm not sure if this really has ever been on.

The club's reputation for doing its business behind closed doors is legendary - that particular aspect does not surprise me at all. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on June 07, 2015, 01:05:37 PM
The guy on Twitter has just admitted he's winding the fans up. Oh well none us are suprised. Must be a wolves or villa fan on the wind up!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on June 07, 2015, 01:18:58 PM
The guy on Twitter has just admitted he's winding the fans up. Oh well none us are suprised. Must be a wolves or villa fan on the wind up!

I insinuated as much but had my comment removed ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on June 07, 2015, 02:03:41 PM
I insinuated as much but had my comment removed ;D

Comment you had removed was going on about seal fans and led to more pointless posts which also got removed as they added nothing to the actual topic, was nothing to do with whether the whole thing was a wind up or not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on June 07, 2015, 02:13:30 PM
Comment you had removed was going on about seal fans and led to more pointless posts which also got removed as they added nothing to the actual topic, was nothing to do with whether the whole thing was a wind up or not.

Ok. Fair enough
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on June 07, 2015, 02:19:33 PM
Although the link to the Chinese was always somewhat laughable I find it strange there has been no whispers at all to the identity of whoever is interested, if anyone. I'm fully expecting a release soon saying price could not be agreed etc. I'm not sure if this really has ever been on.

I think the price being banded around of 150 million pounds seems a bit high in my opinion. It wasn't that long ago when I think I recall a valuation of 50-80 million. Using this Chinese guy's 20% investment in Atletico Madrid equating to around 34 million pounds at the time, that would put the club's value at only a little bit more than the price JP apparently is seeking. In no way can we be compared to a club with the status of Atletico.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on June 07, 2015, 02:51:59 PM
Yes but we aren't comparing things in the traditional way . Simple question is how much money is there in the Spanish leagues compared to our own . And at the end of this season the increase in TV revenue is amazing . That's why old JP is interested in a sale .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on June 07, 2015, 03:29:27 PM
Yes but we aren't comparing things in the traditional way . Simple question is how much money is there in the Spanish leagues compared to our own . And at the end of this season the increase in TV revenue is amazing . That's why old JP is interested in a sale .

Yes I was thinking that the TV money has inflated the price but to virtually double on a valuation not that long ago still seems unrealistic to me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 07, 2015, 03:34:48 PM
So what are we to believe now? Reports have said that the Australian and American bidders have dropped out. Is that true. If so is anyone left in? Is a deal in the pipeline or will it still be business as usual under Mr. Peace?

A takeover would be nice especially if someone can push us a bit further than Jezza.

On the other hand we have never been in debt with Jezza, and are making steady progress as a club.

Sometimes it's better the devil you know, but then again a devil with money is more tempting.  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 07, 2015, 03:40:18 PM
So what are we to believe now? Reports have said that the Australian and American bidders have dropped out. Is that true. If so is anyone left in? Is a deal in the pipeline or will it still be business as usual under Mr. Peace?

A takeover would be nice especially if someone can push us a bit further than Jezza.

On the other hand we have never been in debt with Jezza, and are making steady progress as a club.

Sometimes it's better the devil you know, but then again a devil with money is more tempting.  :)

Those reports were from that fake account.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 07, 2015, 03:44:26 PM
Yes i know, but how much was false?
Have the Yanks and Aussies pulled out?

Last anyone heard officially from the club was that two bidders were in discussion about a takeover and were being shown around the place.

Silence ever since.

The PR at B17 is very poor to say the least.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 07, 2015, 03:46:15 PM
That should read B71 not a Flying Fortress.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on June 07, 2015, 03:59:28 PM
Take over rumours are not PR they are rumours.
The Albion in recent years, quite rightly, have almost never had anything to say about anything unless the details were signed, sealed and delivered and that ranges from transfers, kit and kit sponsors, new tea lady or new owners.
Chill out a little, relax and enjoy the football free summer  8) and what will be will be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 07, 2015, 04:13:16 PM
I think the price being banded around of 150 million pounds seems a bit high in my opinion. It wasn't that long ago when I think I recall a valuation of 50-80 million. Using this Chinese guy's 20% investment in Atletico Madrid equating to around 34 million pounds at the time, that would put the club's value at only a little bit more than the price JP apparently is seeking. In no way can we be compared to a club with the status of Atletico.

Atheltico have a turnover of roughly £150m (but only in a season when they have Champions League football) compared to ours which for the same period was £86m. They operate at a loss which is balanced by the sale of their best players which is an obvious threat to their champions league status which is worth about £30m a year. In addition there is more than £100m of accumulated debt sitting on the balance sheet.

On the other hand we operate at a profit have no debt are not selling our better players to meet our operating expenses. In addition our turnover is set to go to go up by approximately £30m provided we hold onto Premier League status.

Albion's sale price is less than twice turnover (1.75 times) which reflects the financial health of the club Althletico's is 1.17 times turnover which again reflects the relative financial strength of the club. 




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on June 07, 2015, 04:16:34 PM
Succinctly put standaman . Are you JP in disguise ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 07, 2015, 04:45:11 PM
Chill out Frank?

I am a Baggie, we aren't used to chilling out even if we are winning 3-0.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stsbatl on June 07, 2015, 08:02:01 PM
Asxfar as i know the Aussie bid is still alive and kicking.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 07, 2015, 08:10:28 PM
The rumours are getting a tad out of control now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on June 07, 2015, 09:25:48 PM
All will be revealed one way or another.
We poor mortals have no control, so sit back and enjoy the ride.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on June 07, 2015, 10:50:51 PM
Atheltico have a turnover of roughly £150m (but only in a season when they have Champions League football) compared to ours which for the same period was £86m. They operate at a loss which is balanced by the sale of their best players which is an obvious threat to their champions league status which is worth about £30m a year. In addition there is more than £100m of accumulated debt sitting on the balance sheet.

On the other hand we operate at a profit have no debt are not selling our better players to meet our operating expenses. In addition our turnover is set to go to go up by approximately £30m provided we hold onto Premier League status.

Albion's sale price is less than twice turnover (1.75 times) which reflects the financial health of the club Althletico's is 1.17 times turnover which again reflects the relative financial strength of the club.

Good research Standaman. My comparison was purely on the status of each club ignoring the financial details that you have dug out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 08, 2015, 01:19:10 PM
I've heard that an American group are most likely to take over. Only rumours though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 08, 2015, 01:32:25 PM
I've heard that an American group are most likely to take over. Only rumours though.
We'll be re-named the West Bromwich Throstlers
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Yamaka on June 08, 2015, 01:34:29 PM
We'll be re-named the West Bromwich Throstlers

More like The Sandwell Eagles  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stsbatl on June 08, 2015, 03:29:00 PM
I've heard that an American group are most likely to take over. Only rumours though.
...and I've been told the Australians are most likely. Gotta love the rumour mill.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 08, 2015, 03:40:52 PM
...and I've been told the Australians are most likely. Gotta love the rumour mill.
That's what I heard yesterday but then I heard it was a mega rich Malaysian / Australian guy who makes the Chelsea Russian guy Abramocich  look poor. When asked for the source of this info the chap has not come back to me. Looks like another bull pooh story.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: IrememberJohnny Nicholls on June 08, 2015, 03:49:28 PM
Succinctly put standaman . Are you JP in disguise ?

No. He's Spartacus. So am I.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie53 on June 08, 2015, 09:15:47 PM
It's a Chinese-American-Malaysian-Thai consortium headed up by a Russian  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on June 08, 2015, 09:36:37 PM
I know nothing about any of the respective groups, but my preference has always been the Australian group.

To my knowledge there haven't been any Australian owners in the Premier League before, so it would be an interesting first step. I also feel that Australians culturally have a very good sporting appetite, they really 'get it' and I think the transition may well be smoother and the risk smaller than an American or Asian bid.

This is only based on past experiences of American and Asian owners at other clubs, and I would never assume anything about either party without knowing who they include, but my gut instinct was that an Australian group would be best, if not just for the step into the unknown.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on June 08, 2015, 09:39:31 PM
It's Frank Skinner. 100%.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AshD on June 09, 2015, 08:47:36 AM
It's Frank Skinner. 100%.

Nah, I've heard Lenny Henry, with the financial support of Premier Inn, is taking over!!! Reliable source...100% ITK!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 09, 2015, 09:15:29 AM
What about all Albion superstar supporters chip in
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 09, 2015, 09:49:38 AM
I just love all the rumours, I got a funny feeling nothing will happen and JP will still be at the helm.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 09, 2015, 10:24:38 AM
I just love all the rumours, I got a funny feeling nothing will happen and JP will still be at the helm.

I agree. I think this will happen, and now the season ticket deadline has passed it will be announced soon I feel. Something like price could not be agreed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: collins101 on June 09, 2015, 11:36:31 AM
I wonder if the same companies who have been doing due diligence with the vile were also looking at us ? I noticed they've entered an exclusivity agreement with one of them now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on June 09, 2015, 01:01:07 PM
I just love all the rumours, I got a funny feeling nothing will happen and JP will still be at the helm.

Not the worst outcome to be honest.
Slightly nervous about these new investors!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 09, 2015, 01:02:52 PM
Tone will keep us up for another season under Peace
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on June 10, 2015, 09:20:10 AM
Is Tom Ross guessing ??

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tom-ross-aston-villa-birmingham-9423549

Albion could be the first to go with owner Jeremy Peace saying he is close to agreeing a deal with an unnamed business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 10, 2015, 09:25:09 AM
Well it reads as if JP has told people a deal is close so it doesn't look as though he's guessing but you never know with Tom Ross. He also says nothing is likely to happen with Villa anytime soon but the media would have you believe they are pretty close to being sold.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sappa on June 10, 2015, 05:02:09 PM
It's looking like the Chinese consortium as with first step the new away kit red and the 1978 logo. Didn't West Brom tour China in 1978?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ian66 on June 10, 2015, 05:10:00 PM
It's looking like the Chinese consortium as with first step the new away kit red and the 1978 logo. Didn't West Brom tour China in 1978?
They may switch it to be our home kit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 10, 2015, 05:12:00 PM
I'm not believing a word of it. lol  It's season ticket selling time.

Any players from barca for sale?  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 12, 2015, 01:32:39 PM
The Chinese rumour is starting again, oh here we go again.  >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 12, 2015, 01:35:22 PM
The Chinese rumour is starting again, oh here we go again.  >:(


chinese whispers eh
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 12, 2015, 01:46:58 PM

chinese whispers eh
From a Chinese bloke maybe.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 12, 2015, 01:49:28 PM
The Chinese rumour is starting again, oh here we go again.  >:(

Where?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 12, 2015, 02:00:52 PM
Where?
Had a couple of texts this morning saying it's going to happen, someone in the club has told someone who as told someone else, etc etc so I have been told. Don't know if it's true, just saying what I heard. Might be bull and I think it is but thought I would you lot know that the rumours have not finished.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on June 12, 2015, 02:29:40 PM
So really we are none the wiser .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on June 12, 2015, 03:05:13 PM
I wonder what Wing-Yip across the front of our shirts will look like?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on June 12, 2015, 03:16:33 PM
Would be nice if Bill Howell of the Birmingham Mail or Steve Madeley of the Express and Star could actually unearth a microscopic morsel of information on this, their coverage of a matter which could make a massive impact on the club has been nothing short of embarrassing.  Instead the Mail have been churning out pointless, speculative articles about bogus transfer targets day in day out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 12, 2015, 03:28:31 PM
TBH i would prefer Chinese owners whoever they might be. Asia and especially China is where the future of football lies. Think of all the revenue and tv rights we would get. We would become a truly global brand.

Americans don't take the game seriously,they are just businessmen, the Aussies like cricket and tying Kangaroos down.
I know there have been some dodgy Chinese owners, but let's face it, any buyer is a gamble.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on June 12, 2015, 04:08:17 PM
TBH i would prefer Chinese owners whoever they might be. Asia and especially China is where the future of football lies. Think of all the revenue and tv rights we would get. We would become a truly global brand.

Americans don't take the game seriously,they are just businessmen, the Aussies like cricket and tying Kangaroos down.
I know there have been some dodgy Chinese owners, but let's face it, any buyer is a gamble.
America's attitude may change after the Fifa revamp. They will probably replace the World Cup with a World Series with only them in it!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie53 on June 12, 2015, 06:06:44 PM
Wing Wah !

Change all the food outlets over to spring rolls
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on June 12, 2015, 06:10:47 PM
I'm crossing my fingers that Peace stays, don't like the alternatives to be honest. I think with Peace we are in good hands.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on June 12, 2015, 06:21:39 PM
I'm crossing my fingers that Peace stays, don't like the alternatives to be honest. I think with Peace we are in good hands.

The trouble is if we stay under JP's control we will stand still and eventually go backwards. The last couple of seasons have highlighted this and we have become stale. I just can't see how things can improve if JP does stay. The excitement of new owners will hopefully spice things up a bit and hopefully see us move forward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WSBaggie on June 12, 2015, 09:14:46 PM
The trouble is if we stay under JP's control we will stand still and eventually go backwards. The last couple of seasons have highlighted this and we have become stale. I just can't see how things can improve if JP does stay. The excitement of new owners will hopefully spice things up a bit and hopefully see us move forward.

Unfortunately there's no move forward. Each year starts and everybody from 7th look to make 40 points and go from there. Safety is all we can realistically aim for, the gap at the top is untouchable now and that is the sad state of modern day football.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 12, 2015, 10:05:05 PM
will be surprised if this take over doesn't effect our transfer dealings this summer contrary to what noises came from the club saying it wouldn't, didn't JP set a deadline for the end of may or early june for a figure to be agreed, fast approaching mid june so even if a buyout was agreed in the very near future it would still take weeks to finalise.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: monkey nuts on June 12, 2015, 10:25:00 PM
The chinese involved have always been the number one choice that's why quickbook have gone to villa just people got duped by that account on twitter last week
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on June 12, 2015, 10:29:48 PM
I would say there has been someone in the background for some time hence the appointment of Pulis. Peace needed to keep the club up or the whole thing would have been jeopardised . I would like to think that pulis will have been told of the jntention right from the start.  Has to be said the way the media have failed to get hold of any news particularly as they are scratching around for stories is incredible.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cads_ap_albion on June 14, 2015, 04:34:08 PM
I was told today there were three buyers for Albion. A good source confirming what we know already.
1. Australia - rumoured to be Westfield group backed is it??
2. Chinese unknown
3. Quick books from USA.

As all know quick books dropped out and will be buying villa.

Apparently Australia in driving seat.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 14, 2015, 04:38:35 PM
Westfield isn't an Australian based firm anymore though?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on June 14, 2015, 04:45:08 PM
with 7weeks until the season kicks off surely sometime in the next 2weeks we should be hearing something official..we cant afford to let it drag on longer thatn 2 more weeks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on June 14, 2015, 04:45:44 PM
Westfield isn't an Australian based firm anymore though?


The Westfield i am thinking Are a large European Shopping Mall concern. Is it them?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 14, 2015, 05:09:19 PM


The Westfield i am thinking Are a large European Shopping Mall concern. Is it them?

Used to have merry hill and a few others in the uk. It was once australian based but was taken over. Sure it's American now so the post above really don't make sense unless it is the former Westfield owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: fatboy_coach on June 14, 2015, 05:25:29 PM
Lendlease are Australian and property developers, they own Bluewater amongst others. Missus used to work for them, but she's unsure if owning a football club is their style but never say never.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Downunder Stripes on June 14, 2015, 06:02:07 PM
Westfield group owner , billionaire frank lowy, very much involved in football, headed up Australian World Cup bid. Has the money and the love of the game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 14, 2015, 06:06:29 PM
All 84 years of him. Can't see it being Frank Lowy to be honest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Downunder Stripes on June 14, 2015, 06:14:50 PM
If it is to be an Australian company, Westfield would be without doubt my pick of who it could be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on June 14, 2015, 06:27:33 PM
All 84 years of him. Can't see it being Frank Lowy to be honest.

What about his son Steven he also has an interest in football .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on June 14, 2015, 06:30:58 PM
Theres a lot of wishful thinking going on here i'm thinking  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on June 14, 2015, 06:53:48 PM
I heard an Australian was in the driving seat a few weeks ago, never know what to believe but this seems to back it up.  Either way this needs to be sorted within the next 10-14 days in my opinion, players are back in on the 29th.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 14, 2015, 06:57:26 PM
is Jason Davidson still on the books?
What is Tim Cahill upto now?

or am I getting previous
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stokelad84 on June 14, 2015, 07:28:28 PM
Mile Jedinak is the Australian Captain... (Just throwing it out there!)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 14, 2015, 07:54:10 PM
Again I would be surprised if we are taken over by a major corporate entity like Westfield or Intuit who I doubt are taking over the Villa despite their new sponsorship deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hunsletbaggie on June 14, 2015, 08:34:19 PM
 Westfield are definitely after a football club they tried to buy Leeds United off Bates in 2012 I think the blokes name was Frank Lowy I remember it in the Leeds local press.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 14, 2015, 08:54:55 PM
Westfield are definitely after a football club they tried to buy Leeds United off Bates in 2012 I think the blokes name was Frank Lowy I remember it in the Leeds local press.

You're right but it was in 2010.

http://www.thescratchingshed.com/2010/04/is-frank-lowy-to-be-leeds-billionaire-saviour/ (http://www.thescratchingshed.com/2010/04/is-frank-lowy-to-be-leeds-billionaire-saviour/)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 15, 2015, 09:23:41 AM
Either way this is bound to be effecting the season we may have. The player turn around is even greater than last year. Most signings never came off in the summer. We need to get on with it. Don't understand what's going on? Either nothing's happening or the club have become excellent at hide things.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AshD on June 15, 2015, 09:29:01 AM
I'm crossing my fingers that Peace stays, don't like the alternatives to be honest. I think with Peace we are in good hands.

How can you say you don't like the alternatives when we have no idea what the alternatives are!?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 15, 2015, 09:39:53 AM
I think Peace has taken us as far as he can. Under his continued ownership we will tread water for a bit and then sink.
I think Peace knows it as well,hence the reason for wanting to sell.
What suddenly hit me is how totalitarian WBA has become. The boardroom has always been a closed shop, but it was also a democratic one, and we even had old players sitting on the board giving the playing side view.

Over the years Peace has taken over the board bit by bit, until he is the most powerful chairman we have ever had in our history.
Whether that is good or bad will divide opinions, but i think it is time we brought in fresh owners to push on in this Ever changing football world.
Who knows what the premiership will look like 10 years from now, i just hope we are still in it and doing well, on and off the pitch.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Do I not like Wolves on June 15, 2015, 12:23:54 PM
I think Peace has taken us as far as he can. Under his continued ownership we will tread water for a bit and then sink.
I think Peace knows it as well,hence the reason for wanting to sell.
What suddenly hit me is how totalitarian WBA has become. The boardroom has always been a closed shop, but it was also a democratic one, and we even had old players sitting on the board giving the playing side view.

Over the years Peace has taken over the board bit by bit, until he is the most powerful chairman we have ever had in our history.
Whether that is good or bad will divide opinions, but i think it is time we brought in fresh owners to push on in this Ever changing football world.
Who knows what the premiership will look like 10 years from now, i just hope we are still in it and doing well, on and off the pitch.

Better the Devil you know - be careful what you wish for! I am a big JP fan for the way he has run the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hunsletbaggie on June 15, 2015, 12:31:57 PM
Better the Devil you know - be careful what you wish for! I am a big JP fan for the way he has run the club.
So you are happy with a chairman who admitted we are basically bottom end premiership to a mid table Championship outfit.There's ambition for you!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 15, 2015, 12:33:22 PM
Has is the operative word.

The game is changing now quicker than it has ever before.

We need to keep up or be left behind with the Wednesday's, forest's leeds and the shower from Wolvo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Do I not like Wolves on June 15, 2015, 12:44:09 PM
So you are happy with a chairman who admitted we are basically bottom end premiership to a mid table Championship outfit.There's ambition for you!
Having been an Albion fan for 46 years I have been through the depths of despair in fact far more lows than highs -  usually the result of a poor boardroom. The only real highs were those under Giles, Atkinson and Allen. Hence i much prefer a stable boardroom, reliable manager with the chance of a good cup run and mid table league position. The investment required to take us into the top 8 would be massive and is unlikely to come. Just a realist really!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 15, 2015, 12:44:41 PM
So you are happy with a chairman who admitted we are basically bottom end premiership to a mid table Championship outfit.There's ambition for you!

And where did we finish this year, where do we finish most years??

He wouldnt be wrong would he....and 'basically' means he hasnt said it, thats how you have interpreted his words....show me in exact words where he said that and ill believe you.

JP has done a brilliant job at this club, simple as that!

Be interested too know how far along a new buyer is



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on June 15, 2015, 12:53:15 PM
Better the Devil you know - be careful what you wish for! I am a big JP fan for the way he has run the club.

I don't think it would take a great deal of effort to push us on to the next level. By that I mean good cup runs and squeezing into Europe. Teams like Swansea and Southampton have proved it can be done recently. We won't achieve this with JP in charge IMO. We've regressed over the last 2 seasons because we've stood still. We were very lucky that TP was available or else we'd have gone this season. TP needs backing this summer which if JP stays I can't see happening and next season will be another struggle.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 15, 2015, 01:02:40 PM
So you are happy with a chairman who admitted we are basically bottom end premiership to a mid table Championship outfit.There's ambition for you!

Anyone who uses this quote to prove Peace's lack of ambition obviously never read the full interview or has any idea of the context. How it's still being bandied about is testament to just how little people bother to get some context on the stuff they read on Twitter / hearsay / other people's opinions.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 15, 2015, 01:08:35 PM
Peace has done well for us financially, yes. But we are still no better when it comes to signing players than we were 10 years ago.
He did remarkably well securing the services of Roy Hodgson,which gave us our best ever finishes. But then we went back to the untried untested.
We just about survived under Mel, and Peace came out and said. OK i have learned a lesson, i will be more proactive in the future....and then he appoints Alan Irvine.
Make no mistake, had it not been for the anger of the fans Irvine, Downing and Keily would not have been sacked and we would have been down.
You have even all heard it from the horses mouth, a mid table championship club punching above it's weight.
Punching above it's weight soley to the fact that Peace has no wish to invest on the playing side of the club,and is totally blind or ignorant toe the history and traditions of West Bromwich Albion.

Thanks for everything Jeremy, now run along.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on June 15, 2015, 01:28:36 PM
So you are happy with a chairman who admitted we are basically bottom end premiership to a mid table Championship outfit.There's ambition for you!

Seriously mate, that's a huge misquote context wise.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on June 15, 2015, 01:29:57 PM
I don't think it would take a great deal of effort to push us on to the next level. By that I mean good cup runs and squeezing into Europe. Teams like Swansea and Southampton have proved it can be done recently. We won't achieve this with JP in charge IMO. We've regressed over the last 2 seasons because we've stood still. We were very lucky that TP was available or else we'd have gone this season. TP needs backing this summer which if JP stays I can't see happening and next season will be another struggle.

It wasn't JP that told the team to go out and play like dingbats against the veela and thus deprive us of a possible cup final place or told Foster to come our like a banshi with seconds to go against the same opposition.
It wasn't JP that told the team to perform way below par against the likes of QPR and Leicester.
We're never going to be Champions league contenders because nobody in their right mind would invest that amount of money into us, but with a few tweaks and sensible investment we can put ourselves in a position where we are challenging for domestic cup honours  and possible UEFA cup places.
We need to build positively year on year not dive in and throw cash at it, I don't believe that most fans want to see that anyway.
I for one hope that the new consortium have the good sense to leave JP at the helm during the transitional period.
As others have said better the devil you know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 15, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
Wasn't we a mid table championship side before peace took over ?, I started watching games when we first got promoted I would never of imagined that we would of had footballing figures like hodgson, kanu, Lukaku, odemwan.er, Fletcher, lescott come to our club we have progressed so well unfortunately things have gone a bit stale the last couple years hence peace wanting to sell, I believe he has said he wants someone to come in and take us to the next level.

Don't get the haters we have had good and bad moments same as any club but the majority have been good years under Jeremy and we have reached some fantastic heights to.

Maybe the stumbling block is the new owners want old tone gone ?  :D with new investment comes a lot of unknown grounds.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on June 15, 2015, 01:38:21 PM
People have got short and selective memories . Remember when we beat port vale . I never thought we would get to the big money league . I would like to see a takeover we all would , but on the bigger picture we are in a fantastic shape and much of that is down to Jeremy .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 15, 2015, 01:45:42 PM
All i am saying is that yes, Jeremy has put the club on a strong foundation, but by his own admittance cannot take us any further.

We have two choices, we either stay under his leadership and slip back into obscurity, missing out on the sky millions, or take a gamble, and yes, it is a gamble, by selling the club to someone who CAN push us on.

The frst alternative is championship, the second could well be, but might not.

I know which i would prefer.    Mankind would have never got out of a cave without change and risks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 15, 2015, 01:51:55 PM
I've had to set aside my fairly entrenched views on Peace.  We are soon to start our sixth consecutive season in the PL.  I think almost everything about the club has improved significantly during his tenure.  I doubt whether it would be possible to find a shorter or smoother ride to where we are today without that sugar daddy (or even with it - see wulfs).  I, kind of, feel proud when I see WBA (nil debt) 3 - 0 (£1bn debt) Chelsea...

I reserve my criticism of Peace for areas such as fan interaction, financial openness and the fact that someone who is a 'fan' can plan to benefit to the tune of £150m after recovering his initial investment many years ago.  As a fan I don't think I could just take all the money and retire to Barbados.  I'd want to find a way to pay my dues and share the benefit.  Maybe I'm weird?  I like £s, but I love West Brom.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on June 15, 2015, 01:53:15 PM
On what basis are we predicted to go back to the championship ? We finished 13 th last year . The big big money comes this year . Including 4 years of help to clubs that are relegated   I remain happy and optimistic and hope Jeremy stays .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 15, 2015, 02:02:32 PM
I've had to set aside my fairly entrenched views on Peace.  We are soon to start our sixth consecutive season in the PL.  I think almost everything about the club has improved significantly during his tenure.  I doubt whether it would be possible to find a shorter or smoother ride to where we are today without that sugar daddy (or even with it - see wulfs).  I, kind of, feel proud when I see WBA (nil debt) 3 - 0 (£1bn debt) Chelsea...

I reserve my criticism of Peace for areas such as fan interaction, financial openness and the fact that someone who is a 'fan' can plan to benefit to the tune of £150m after recovering his initial investment many years ago.  As a fan I don't think I could just take all the money and retire to Barbados.  I'd want to find a way to pay my dues and share the benefit.  Maybe I'm weird?  I like £s, but I love West Brom.

Good post. Agree with every word.

At this moment in time he is a safe pair of hands. It was the same with Eliis at the vile, and everybody wanted shot of him for progression purposes.... that went well didn't it.

For me at this moment in time progression is knocking on the door of a Europa spot with a good cup run or two. When we find ourselves in that position we can re appraise our progress then, but I really don't want the club to go into masses of debt at the hands of a money orientated foreign investor for the sake of 'progress'. Also, I don't want to buy the title either........but you make some valid points about JP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on June 15, 2015, 02:10:21 PM
just as a matter of interest I keep reading about us 'getting to the next level'
What does that actually mean?
With a few tweaks we can be challenging for the domestic cups and finish in the top half of the Prem.
What are we actually looking to be doing?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gablythe on June 15, 2015, 02:10:43 PM
I don't mind if we buy the title. Fat chance.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: garry on June 15, 2015, 02:13:13 PM
I'm prepared to give Peace the benefit of the doubt at the moment.
Maybe the sticking point is not him haggling about the money.
Perhaps, as a fan, he is making sure that the club passes on to someone who will continue, as he has done, to act in the best interests of the club.
Perhaps he is laying down conditions to prevent the situation that we all fear: that we will be the next Portsmouth, for example.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 15, 2015, 02:14:13 PM
It's the only way now i'm afraid.

Who was the last club to do it without money?

Why is Jeremy trying to sell the club? Answers on a postcard please.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 15, 2015, 02:14:27 PM
Whether you're for or against Peace selling, I think it's starting to draw on a bit now. As others have said, we really need to be pro-active in the transfer market and get the ball rolling, regardless of our ownership scenario.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 15, 2015, 02:40:34 PM
Whether you're for or against Peace selling, I think it's starting to draw on a bit now. As others have said, we really need to be pro-active in the transfer market and get the ball rolling, regardless of our ownership scenario.
I don't see a problem with us having further discussions for the next couple of weeks if it's to bring us the right owners, It is amazing how we keep it so discreet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on June 15, 2015, 02:43:14 PM
It's the only way now i'm afraid.

Who was the last club to do it without money?

Why is Jeremy trying to sell the club? Answers on a postcard please.

Leeds 91-92 ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 15, 2015, 03:27:35 PM
Peace has done well for us financially, yes. But we are still no better when it comes to signing players than we were 10 years ago.
He did remarkably well securing the services of Roy Hodgson,which gave us our best ever finishes. But then we went back to the untried untested.
We just about survived under Mel, and Peace came out and said. OK i have learned a lesson, i will be more proactive in the future....and then he appoints Alan Irvine.
Make no mistake, had it not been for the anger of the fans Irvine, Downing and Keily would not have been sacked and we would have been down.
You have even all heard it from the horses mouth, a mid table championship club punching above it's weight.
Punching above it's weight soley to the fact that Peace has no wish to invest on the playing side of the club,and is totally blind or ignorant toe the history and traditions of West Bromwich Albion.

Thanks for everything Jeremy, now run along.

we finished 8th under Clarke.

I don't think it would take a great deal of effort to push us on to the next level. By that I mean good cup runs and squeezing into Europe. Teams like Swansea and Southampton have proved it can be done recently. We won't achieve this with JP in charge IMO. We've regressed over the last 2 seasons because we've stood still. We were very lucky that TP was available or else we'd have gone this season. TP needs backing this summer which if JP stays I can't see happening and next season will be another struggle.

that's a good trick, how do you regress while standing still?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 15, 2015, 03:38:54 PM
Maybe he means like Charlton did ? Stood still for so long they moved backwards.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 15, 2015, 04:09:49 PM
Some hilariously blinkered views here not worthy of dissecting and commenting on. One comment however,  that staying under Peace's leadership we will disappear into obscurity is absolutely ridiculous. We've progressed so much under him, why would we suddenly disappear into obscurity with him still in charge? That would be a huge task. Wolves got relegated twice and didn't slip into obscurity. Suggesting the two choices are stick with Peace and slip into obscurity or change ownership and that's less of a risk is very naive.

And last I checked he's trying to sell the club, why now lay into him for taking us as far as he can? He's trying to sell us for goodness sake, he's not dragging his feet trying to rudderlessly steer us into obscurity - he wants out. Can't have a go at him for taking us as far as he can unless he refuses to go.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 15, 2015, 04:13:07 PM
And last I checked he's trying to sell the club, why now lay into him for taking us as far as he can? He's trying to sell us for goodness sake, he's not dragging his feet trying to rudderlessly steer us into obscurity - he wants out. Can't have a go at him for taking us as far as he can unless he refuses to go.

Does he want out because he thinks that this moment in time represents the best foreseeable return on his investment or is it because he thinks its in the best interests of the club if he stands aside and lets someone with more financial clout take over?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 15, 2015, 04:13:18 PM
Here's an interesting one who thinks we will get taken over and who thinks jezza will stay on, Would be an interesting poll.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: monkey nuts on June 15, 2015, 04:18:28 PM
Maybe he means like Charlton did ? Stood still for so long they moved backwards.
Only because they sacked curbs to be fair they thought they could get better and then looked what happened
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: monkey nuts on June 15, 2015, 04:23:12 PM
Here's an interesting one who thinks we will get taken over and who thinks jezza will stay on, Would be an interesting poll.
Think he'll sell personally but these things take a bit of time would anyone spend 150mil without due process, even when the due diligence finished at maybe end of may it would still take at least 4 to 6 weeks to sort out so should be hearing something soon I would think as if it had fell through I would have thought we'd know by now
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ska-dForLife-WBA on June 15, 2015, 04:25:23 PM
Peace has no wish to invest on the playing side of the club,and is totally blind or ignorant toe the history and traditions of West Bromwich Albion.

So "blind" and "ignorant" to Albion's history and tradition that he bombed Nicolas Anelka out of the club at a time when we desperately needed strikers simply because Anelka had disgraced the proud anti-racist principles of the club?  Let's face it; unless we're taken over by a consortium of fans (which, for the record, I wouldn't be opposed to), you'll struggle to find a prospective owner on the planet who understands this club and its history better than Jeremy Peace.

I'd also be interested to hear where this magical land we're supposed to be "pushing on" to is located, because unless it's the Champions League - which is now a permanently closed shop, and no team from outside the elite has broken into in a decade - there's literally no point in an owner spending their own money to move us up the table, because they'll get nothing back.  You may as well spend your days wishing that the royal family will turn you into a prince because they feel sorry for you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on June 15, 2015, 04:27:56 PM
Unfortunately standing still is considered success in the greed league.
Lerner thought he could get Villa in with the big boys, then once he realised it was a closed shop, he closed his wallet and settled for survival.
Peace has done a fantastic job to keep us in there but I think he realises now that it's groundhog day, every summer you have to spend more, but your target is still the same - survive!
We finished 13th this season but our target next year will not be 12th it will 17th.
I honestly don't see how this changes, whoever comes in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on June 15, 2015, 05:08:05 PM
we finished 8th under Clarke.

that's a good trick, how do you regress while standing still?

As the old saying goes...

We have regressed over the last 2 years though. That is fact. We need new investment just maintain our position let alone move to the next level. How many teams can we realistically compete with over transfers now? The 3 promoted teams perhaps and that is all.

Whilst JP has done a good job over his term there is no denying that he's made a hell of a lot of mistakes over the last couple of seasons.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on June 15, 2015, 05:11:25 PM
just as a matter of interest I keep reading about us 'getting to the next level'
What does that actually mean?
With a few tweaks we can be challenging for the domestic cups and finish in the top half of the Prem.
What are we actually looking to be doing?

For me it would be getting into Europe by finishing high up the league or by winning a cup. I think that we are a bit further from a 'few tweaks' to achieve even this IMO.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 15, 2015, 05:30:02 PM
Does he want out because he thinks that this moment in time represents the best foreseeable return on his investment or is it because he thinks its in the best interests of the club if he stands aside and lets someone with more financial clout take over?

Why wouldn't he sell after the next round of Sky money comes in next year? That'd suggest he doesn't think we could stay up with him in charge, which for the last five years (albeit one very near miss) we've done that. If he's all about selling for his best interests and highest return on his money, that'd be next year surely?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 15, 2015, 05:50:56 PM
Peace will not go on for ever and at some point he will sell up and now is as good as time as any and better than most. 

The new owners whoever they are will not take us to the next level because short of champions league football there is no next level. Most mid-table clubs can take a stab at the cup it generally doesn't end well for them but the latter stages can and will be reached by teams like ourselves and that is within our means without a massive injection of capital.

The following table I have nicked from a blog (by the excellent Swiss Ramble) about Newcastle but it demonstrates the point

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wPX-vCSoMD0/VTOuXAmvYJI/AAAAAAAAIfE/Y4LExb_JxQc/s1600/25%2BNewcastle%2BWages%2BGrowth%2B2014.jpg

Basically our wages have grown phenomenally and teams that were way ahead of us like Newcastle and Villa are not that far ahead of us now but Spurs are still on a different planet. Equally you can see that teams like Southampton and Swansea when they are promoted catch up to us very quickly but are likely to plateau without champions league football (like ourselves and Stoke)

In short unless a club can sustain a £100m wage bill then you are pretty much in the same boat as everybody else. The best we can hope for is a safe pair of hands that will grow the club without threatening our future. I dread a Venkays or Fernandes and hope for Peace mark II
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 15, 2015, 07:31:22 PM
I remember a time when some of you on here were organising Peace Out banners. What happened to them?

Face it folks,the bloke has taken us as far as he can, and we weren't mid championship when he took over, we were premiership. Some of you want to learn your history.

Are any of you related to Jezza?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 15, 2015, 08:22:23 PM
I remember a time when some of you on here were organising Peace Out banners. What happened to them?

Face it folks,the bloke has taken us as far as he can, and we weren't mid championship when he took over, we were premiership. Some of you want to learn your history.

Are any of you related to Jezza?
It faded because it was so embarrassing our own fans were even taking the pee I think about 10 people turned up and that's being generous.

When Peace took over we wasn't in the premiership I believe again before my time of following closely.

I think your hugely ungrateful for what he's done he's admitted himself that he doesn't have the finances for us to compete and truthfully considering over the years what we have spent big fees on I wouldn't invest more either.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Watton...! on June 15, 2015, 08:32:04 PM
In fairness peace took over in the summer of our first premier league season?

Still done a great job moving the club forward on other fronts not just buying players and making us a premier league club in stature, not just status

By which I mean training facilities amongst other things
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 15, 2015, 08:38:36 PM
In fairness peace took over in the summer of our first premier league season?

Still done a great job moving the club forward on other fronts not just buying players and making us a premier league club in stature, not just status

By which I mean training facilities amongst other things
The only thing which I would want us to scrap if standards and non existent chances carry on is the academy may be controversial to some but I find it bemusing, confusing and annoying how we don't give the youngsters a chance I say youngsters some of them are 21 now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AshD on June 15, 2015, 09:32:07 PM
The only thing which I would want us to scrap if standards and non existent chances carry on is the academy may be controversial to some but I find it bemusing, confusing and annoying how we don't give the youngsters a chance I say youngsters some of them are 21 now.

Maybe they aren't given a chance because they aren't good enough! Berahino has forced his way in, Izzy Brown would have done had he not left.

Our academy is starting to produce players who are pushing...Tyler Roberts and Jonathan Leko both highly rated. If they are good enough, they will force their way in!

Name a youngster who we have let go in recent times who has proved us wrong!?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on June 15, 2015, 09:38:07 PM
I remember a time when some of you on here were organising Peace Out banners. What happened to them?

Face it folks,the bloke has taken us as far as he can, and we weren't mid championship when he took over, we were premiership. Some of you want to learn your history.

Are any of you related to Jezza?

We are lightyears ahead of where we were before Peace come in. Look at our facilities now and the sort of players we bring in e.g. Lescott and Fletcher. Be careful what you wish for because some may be wishing Peace was back when our new owner comes in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 15, 2015, 11:20:16 PM
Peace also voted against financial fair play rules being introduced to make us a more attractive proposition for potential future buyers. But people will stand brand him a stingy dictator who hates the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 15, 2015, 11:28:10 PM
8th to 10th is the best we can achieve, unless a billionaire takes over and doubles the stadium size and buys a whole new squad, which is never going to happen. Last season we finished 12th? Fact is we can never hope to compete with City, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs. We would also be punching above our weight to compete with Everton, West Spam in their new stadium or the seals if they get their act together. So this is as good as it gets. Yes we can improve the squad and try to rekindle that first half of the year that we had under Clarke or get a cup run going but the better you start the season the more likely you collapse at the turn of the year. Look at West Ham that is gravity for you. Personally I always hope we stay clear of the relegation scrap, win our home games and take the odd scalp of a bigger club and maybe have the odd cup run - that is enough for me and we can't hope to do any better. So I'm not really interested in a new owner. The only upside I could see is potential investment in expanding the stadium which in the long term increases the sustainable revenue and appeal of the club. Downside could be debt, chaos and a fall back to mid table championship team. Peace has proved he can bring success and stability. The majority of chairman don't succeed, I think we take Peace's extraordinary success for granted much of the time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 16, 2015, 12:05:02 AM
8th to 10th is the best we can achieve, unless a billionaire takes over and doubles the stadium size and buys a whole new squad, which is never going to happen. Last season we finished 12th? Fact is we can never hope to compete with City, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool or Spurs. We would also be punching above our weight to compete with Everton, West Spam in their new stadium or the seals if they get their act together. So this is as good as it gets. Yes we can improve the squad and try to rekindle that first half of the year that we had under Clarke or get a cup run going but the better you start the season the more likely you collapse at the turn of the year. Look at West Ham that is gravity for you. Personally I always hope we stay clear of the relegation scrap, win our home games and take the odd scalp of a bigger club and maybe have the odd cup run - that is enough for me and we can't hope to do any better. So I'm not really interested in a new owner. The only upside I could see is potential investment in expanding the stadium which in the long term increases the sustainable revenue and appeal of the club. Downside could be debt, chaos and a fall back to mid table championship team. Peace has proved he can bring success and stability. The majority of chairman don't succeed, I think we take Peace's extraordinary success for granted much of the time.

Yes, that is all we can hope for in the present regime, and i think that is asking a bit too much, struggling aganist relegation every year is more like we can expect.
Are you happy with that? Is that OK as long as Jeremy balances the books, and keeps himself a rich man?

Yes i can remember the bad days, the Wokings, the fall from grace into division three for the first time in our glorious history. Some of you started supporting the Baggies during this awful time, and you deserve to be commended for that.
But for the older Baggies, i am surprised. The 1990's were the only decade in our history that this great club didn't grace the top flight.
We have attendance records and goalscoring records to rival any club in the country.
In the late sixties we got to 4 Cup finals in 5 years and the other year we reached the semis and the quarters of the CWC.
The Vile and the Dingles always dream of being big clubs again. Is it so wrong for an old Baggie to dream the same dreams?

FFS be proud of who we are, what we are, and stop grovelling to a self servant like Peace.

At the end of the day, we all want what is best for our club.

COYB
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on June 16, 2015, 12:18:27 AM
JP Said the interest, unless confirmed should be concluded by the beginning of June.
We have nothing definite. so FORGET IT.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 16, 2015, 08:05:47 AM
Are we a new football club that's only 20 years old, we've a great history with major honours to our name and played top flight football for the majority of our existence it didn't all begin with the premier league and Jeremy Peace, I agree he's done a good job and made himself a very wealthy man in achieving this but come on to be happy with just survival and decent cup runs shouldn't be our only goal, the leagues a competition and that means your in it try and win it even if its not realistically possible.
you buy a lottery ticket and hope to get the jackpot not three winning balls.

               
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 16, 2015, 08:34:11 AM
Are we a new football club that's only 20 years old, we've a great history with major honours to our name and played top flight football for the majority of our existence it didn't all begin with the premier league and Jeremy Peace, I agree he's done a good job and made himself a very wealthy man in achieving this but come on to be happy with just survival and decent cup runs shouldn't be our only goal, the leagues a competition and that means your in it try and win it even if its not realistically possible.
you buy a lottery ticket and hope to get the jackpot not three winning balls.

               
How can you tell we are not in it to win it ? League table doesn't lie everyone deserves there position after 38 games. Main thing for me now is that we can get a result against anyone on our day I would have never said that 5 years ago.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 16, 2015, 08:48:01 AM
On the other hand,you get clubs like Palace, Southampton, Swansea, Stoke and now even little Bournemouth. All the se clubs put together haven't won anything like what we have, had crowds like we did in the past, or had such a great history as a top flight club.
These clubs would now be favourite to sign any player before us. Why? Because they have rich owners.
Jeremy may be a nice gut, and it's loveley that you all think well of him.
But every passing season,clubs like Palace, ( we thought that was a great 0-2 win away didn't we), and Swansea and Stoke are pulling away from us. While we splash about hoping there are three more teams who will be worse than us.
Don't forget under Peace, the Hawthorns has become a small ground, legends of the club and their families have been snubbed. He even chared fans to see the Championship trophy, i never got to see it.
I can't think of another club that would win something and then refuse to parade it and charge their fans instead.

A step into the unknown can be terrifying, and i would be lying if i said it wouldn't make me nervous. But more seasons of struggle until the chairmans luck finally runs out and he leaves anyway, is not something i relish.

I think if he had put a realistic price on the club we would have been sold by now, but Mr Peace likes to squeeze out every last penny.

£150m for Villa Park or the Hawthorns at the same price. Not rocket science is it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 16, 2015, 09:13:10 AM
Got nothing to do with Peace, Palace and the likes of are above us at the moment because they have quality wingers and decent strikers they also play a fluent style of football that on there day can sweep teams aside. Very much like our team under Hodgson/Clarke, Quality side full of potential and pace.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on June 16, 2015, 09:14:03 AM
A key thing in the value between WBA and Villa is that we are debt free. Whilst unless Randy is willing to work away with massive lose he'll want more dosh to cover his backside.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on June 16, 2015, 09:24:14 AM
JP Said the interest, unless confirmed should be concluded by the beginning of June.
We have nothing definite. so FORGET IT.
Surely the handing over of the accounts for due diligence IS confirmation of interest??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 16, 2015, 09:32:42 AM
One way or the other if JP sticks to his words we will know for sure what has happened in 13 days time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 16, 2015, 09:37:36 AM
I think if a deal was close surely something would come out of the club? It's very hard to keep secrets from the media these days.
I would be surprised if it happened to be honest.

The cynical side of me says, it could be another ploy as to why we aren't proactive in the transfer market, unless we are letting players go.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 16, 2015, 09:50:46 AM
Lets face it apart from the potential buyers themselves who from the club do they actually need to deal with apart from Peace and his lawyers? It isn't like transfers that rarely stay quiet as there are so many involved in it.

Very few people will know where a potential takeover stands and I doubt it would be beneficial to either party for it to be released to the press until its done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 16, 2015, 10:00:28 AM
Yes whatever
On the other hand,you get clubs like Palace, Southampton, Swansea, Stoke and now even little Bournemouth. All the se clubs put together haven't won anything like what we have, had crowds like we did in the past, or had such a great history as a top flight club.
These clubs would now be favourite to sign any player before us. Why? Because they have rich owners.
Jeremy may be a nice gut, and it's loveley that you all think well of him.
But every passing season,clubs like Palace, ( we thought that was a great 0-2 win away didn't we), and Swansea and Stoke are pulling away from us. While we splash about hoping there are three more teams who will be worse than us.
Don't forget under Peace, the Hawthorns has become a small ground, legends of the club and their families have been snubbed. He even chared fans to see the Championship trophy, i never got to see it.
I can't think of another club that would win something and then refuse to parade it and charge their fans instead.

A step into the unknown can be terrifying, and i would be lying if i said it wouldn't make me nervous. But more seasons of struggle until the chairmans luck finally runs out and he leaves anyway, is not something i relish.

I think if he had put a realistic price on the club we would have been sold by now, but Mr Peace likes to squeeze out every last penny.

£150m for Villa Park or the Hawthorns at the same price. Not rocket science is it?

Provided a club can get into the Premier League and survive a couple of seasons they are the same as us. History counts for nothing when trying to sign players who will be typically in their 20's possibly from overseas and only interested in three things

1. Money
2. Location and what that means for me and my family
3. Will I play?

How each of those things rank depends on the individual but club history not enter into their thinking I am sure.

The notion that any team from 7th down to 17th is very much better off than any other is false and frankly any team other than the ones that can afford to pay £100m plus a year in wages are only one bad season away from relegation and yes that does include Southampton and Swansea.

If relegation form is a run of 10 games at less than a point a game (our benchmark for firing a coach by the way) last season at least half of the division endured such a run including Everton and West Ham. The current media darlings Southampton who had a wonderful season were not included in that group because they managed 10 points from their last ten games.

None of these fundamentals change if and when we change ownership. We are punching above our weight being here to a degree and even if we are here in 10 years time we will still be punching above our weight.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 16, 2015, 10:01:13 AM
Well, all we can do is wait and see one way or the other. This thread is going nowhere at the moment.

So frustrating being a Baggie.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on June 16, 2015, 10:03:01 AM
There is a contract agreeing a confidentiality clause. If this becomes broken the deal is off so it not surprising we have heard nothing!  The lawyers would also lose a lot of money if anything was leaked.  News will only break when there is news !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 16, 2015, 10:10:59 AM
Just seen a tweet from Bill Howell (I know not the most insightful source) to the effect that JP is keen on doing a deal and he believes there is a fair chance it will happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on June 16, 2015, 03:30:14 PM
Well, all we can do is wait and see one way or the other. This thread is going nowhere at the moment.

So frustrating being a Baggie.

Agree, it seems all around us action is happening on the transfer market, Villa nabbing two, even in the midst of being supposedly sold like us.

I would rather the club just occasionally said, " nothing is happening" then this limbo we seem to get left in every summer break with no news.....no sponsor, supposedly new owners, no home kit confirmed, no transfers.....but betting being a frustrated Baggie than a stupid Villan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on June 16, 2015, 03:39:16 PM
anything after the 30th of june and it will effect us in the transfer market etc the season will be around quick...we take long enough over players never mind with a takeover hanging over us....hopefully pulis doesnt get annoyed with the situation
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 16, 2015, 03:54:16 PM
Why would anyone from the club come out and say 'nothing's happening'?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 16, 2015, 03:57:53 PM
The club do a incredible job of keeping their cards close to their chest so im not worried in the slightest. I understand why some are worried because we haven't heard anything via the media as of yet. One thing people need to keep in mind is that these are private conversations between Peace and interested over seas parties and the club aren't going to give us day by day updates. There are only a small group of people who truly know whats going on and that's Peace and the interested parties. Its still very early days in the summer so there's absolutely no need to go anywhere near the panic button as of yet in my opinion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on June 16, 2015, 04:19:15 PM
The club do a incredible job of keeping their cards close to their chest so im not worried in the slightest. I understand why some are worried because we haven't heard anything via the media as of yet. One thing people need to keep in mind is that these are private conversations between Peace and interested over seas parties and the club aren't going to give us day by day updates. There are only a small group of people who truly know whats going on and that's Peace and the interested parties. Its still very early days in the summer so there's absolutely no need to go anywhere near the panic button as of yet in my opinion.

I agree, anybody stands more chance of finding out about FIFA than us but when would you press the panic button.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 16, 2015, 04:23:18 PM
Why would anyone from the club come out and say 'nothing's happening'?

Dave Kemp pretty much did a week or so ago in either the Brummie mail or the express and star...I'm not sure which as I get newspaper cuttings. It was one of those "things are going on behind the scenes but we aren't in a position to say anything yet" responses.

The club will tell the media when there is something to tell. I'm sure things are being worked on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 16, 2015, 04:27:24 PM
Dave Kemp pretty much did a week or so ago in either the Brummie mail or the express and star...I'm not sure which as I get newspaper cuttings. It was one of those "things are going on behind the scenes but we aren't in a position to say anything yet" responses.

The club will tell the media when there is something to tell. I'm sure things are being worked on.

Exactly, that's not someone saying nothing's happening, that's someone saying something is happening just don't expect a flurry of press releases. A lot of people think the club have to tell us everything immediately even if, as has been demanded earlier it's to say 'nothing is happening'.

Just because nobody is screaming news from the floodlights doesn't mean nothing is happening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 16, 2015, 05:42:14 PM
After hearing about mclean, i feel JP is staying.. Its not something a new chairman would do. Plus we had signings like this last year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bigrob80 on June 16, 2015, 05:56:57 PM
I must admit I am a little frustrated at hearing no news, but let's face it nothing will be public until they want us to know. At the end of the day this is the safest and most secure way to conduct such a deal. We are linked to all sorts of players at the minute as the transfer merry go round starts up. We may even be conducting two transfer strategies at the moment one on a jezza budget and one on a new owner budget, even if we do get taken over there may not be time to get better deals over the line, it might be Christmas time before it reaps any benefit! All that matters for now is that the suns out!👍🏻
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 16, 2015, 06:54:55 PM
After hearing about mclean, i feel JP is staying.. Its not something a new chairman would do. Plus we had signings like this last year.

Things can't grind to a halt just because a takeover might happen. Its business as usual as much as it possibly can be at this stage. I'm not sure what you mean when you say its not something a new chairman would do, do you mean you think a new chairman would come in and start spending much more than that on players and turn his nose up at what could turn out to be a bargain? We didn't have signings like that last summer really, not many players we got with experience in England.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on June 16, 2015, 07:29:56 PM
After hearing about mclean, i feel JP is staying.. Its not something a new chairman would do. Plus we had signings like this last year.

I don't think there's any correlation at all in this. The new guy/company taking over would almost certainly say that low fee, low risk signings should be happening when possible.

If the fee is indeed £1.5 and the wages were on the lowish side, then this isn't something i think would impact a club sale. If anything McClean is probably back up as he can be used either side, if you're basing your attack on quick wingers you need bare minimum 3, if not 4 or 5.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 16, 2015, 08:22:49 PM
Nobody seems to be taking on board the fact that even once a deal is agreed, the buyer must pass the "fit and proper persons" test. 

If they are coming from China in particular (a big possibility) then that process will inevitably take longer than usual.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 16, 2015, 08:40:46 PM
Yes, that is all we can hope for in the present regime, and i think that is asking a bit too much, struggling aganist relegation every year is more like we can expect.
Are you happy with that? Is that OK as long as Jeremy balances the books, and keeps himself a rich man?

8th to 10th is all we can hope for under ANY chairman. My point wasn't that Peace was holding us back but that we have already reached our ceiling and expect no more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on June 16, 2015, 08:51:56 PM
8th to 10th is all we can hope for under ANY chairman. My point wasn't that Peace was holding us back but that we have already reached our ceiling and expect no more.

Agree. We could have a richer owner than Peace but get relegated. Look at how much money that Tony Fernandes has.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on June 16, 2015, 09:14:21 PM
Agree. We could have a richer owner than Peace but get relegated. Look at how much money that Tony Fernandes has.

One think Fernandes had to deal with was 'Arry spunking his money up the wall. I don't think that would happen here
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on June 16, 2015, 09:32:01 PM
One think Fernandes had to deal with was 'Arry spunking his money up the wall. I don't think that would happen here
Pulis spunked ALOT of the Coates fortune while at Stoke, didn't exactly get very far doing it either.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 16, 2015, 11:06:33 PM
You cannot read anything into the takeover from us signing a player or not. The summer's business is in train the budget is set and will be part of the due diligence process and any purchaser will be buying us on that basis. I really hope any new owners let things run their course regardless of what they are planning longer term the absolute worst thing they can do is walk through the door and start throwing money around in the last few weeks of the window. 

Ask yourself what would Fernades do in this situation ? You then pray your owner does the opposite.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stokelad84 on June 17, 2015, 10:10:48 AM
Pulis spunked ALOT of the Coates fortune while at Stoke, didn't exactly get very far doing it either.

He spent that money to turn Stoke from a mid table Championship club into a solid mid table Premier League club. And of the squad he left, 7 players have been regular starters in the new managers team 2 whole seasons later.

Bet365 have made record profits year on year since it's inception. So Pulis spunked none of Coates' personal money. It was all excess profit from that company...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on June 17, 2015, 10:15:31 AM
I think a deal is definitely close to being struck, if nothing was close Peace would have come out by now and said he is staying put like he said he would at the end of May, that he hasn’t suggests something significant is in the offing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 17, 2015, 10:17:04 AM
I agree. If there weren't clear signs that something was still happening behind the scenes it wouldn't have dragged on so long with no comment from Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on June 17, 2015, 10:19:05 AM
I think a deal is definitely close to being struck, if nothing was close Peace would have come out by now and said he is staying put like he said he would at the end of May, that he hasn’t suggests something significant is in the offing.

also would explain letting sponsor go to Villa and delay of new home shirt launch/sponsor announcement. Expect new owner's business to be shirt sponsor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 17, 2015, 11:51:52 AM
He spent that money to turn Stoke from a mid table Championship club into a solid mid table Premier League club. And of the squad he left, 7 players have been regular starters in the new managers team 2 whole seasons later.

Bet365 have made record profits year on year since it's inception. So Pulis spunked none of Coates' personal money. It was all excess profit from that company...

Setting aside Pulis's track record in the transfer market which is mixed between 2006 and 2013 Stoke had a cumulative loss of £65m (a lot of which was a hefty net transfer spend) how on earth is that not Coates family money regardless of where it came from? If they hadn't spent it on Stoke City then it is theirs to buy yachts or whatever other baubles multi millionaires buy these days.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stokelad84 on June 17, 2015, 12:53:01 PM
As far as their business goes £65m is not too bad (as crazy as that sounds!) They're spending around £50m at the moment erecting a brand new building. And over the last few years they have apparently paid out £200m to several charities in the midlands.

Denise is worth over a billion. John is set to be worth £800m with Peter bringing up the rear with £750m.

Peter is the football fanatic and he wanted Stoke to be a force in the top league in his lifetime. He's 77 now so you could say he's lived his dream. Denise and John are not as bothered about football, so a lot of people think the purse strings have been cut to make the club more sellable if/when Peter passes away.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on June 17, 2015, 01:33:48 PM
Just because they are constructing a £50M building doesn't mean a £65M loss is good.  By the way I've seen many people ask you this but you fail to answer, would you have Pulis back at Stoke?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on June 17, 2015, 05:06:43 PM
Even though there is usually a deafening silence this time of year from the Shrine, which frustrates the hell out of all of us and leads to all sorts of speculation and conspiracy theories, especially as the press don't bother with us as a "little" club, further opening the gates of fan paranoia, I think that something is happening behind the scenes this time, that is significant.

We usually don't release the kit until very late June, early July anyway, and our sponsorship deals are usually last minute or not at all....but something smells different this time.....suspect a major announcement imminent....and it wont be Tony Pulis trans-gendering into Antonia Pulis.....mind you..."Call me Antonia" has a ring to it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stokelad84 on June 17, 2015, 05:48:45 PM
Just because they are constructing a £50M building doesn't mean a £65M loss is good.  By the way I've seen many people ask you this but you fail to answer, would you have Pulis back at Stoke?

If I was the hirer and firer I would pick him up from Smethwick myself  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBeef on June 17, 2015, 05:51:56 PM
As far as their business goes £65m is not too bad (as crazy as that sounds!) They're spending around £50m at the moment erecting a brand new building. And over the last few years they have apparently paid out £200m to several charities in the midlands.

Denise is worth over a billion. John is set to be worth £800m with Peter bringing up the rear with £750m.

Peter is the football fanatic and he wanted Stoke to be a force in the top league in his lifetime. He's 77 now so you could say he's lived his dream. Denise and John are not as bothered about football, so a lot of people think the purse strings have been cut to make the club more sellable if/when Peter passes away.

Stokelad,

Just a heads up, John Coates is a football nut and was Stoke home/away long before they reached the Promised Land.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on June 17, 2015, 11:34:09 PM
Not one to name drop, but can verifify with Olbury if necessary. Was with a certain person within the scouting network yesterday who has  'apparently' been advised to cool off the scouting and 'watch list' for while - as it may be possible that we could be able to look at players above the expected budget?! Now that depends of course on what the budget was - but it does perhaps suggest that our finances may me likely to change soon?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on June 17, 2015, 11:40:10 PM
Call me a "stick in the mud", but it certainly wouldn't harm us if JP was still in charge for the new season.
He could be tempted to open his purse and show interested parties just how good an investment we would be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on June 18, 2015, 08:50:38 AM
Not one to name drop, but can verifify with Olbury if necessary. Was with a certain person within the scouting network yesterday who has  'apparently' been advised to cool off the scouting and 'watch list' for while - as it may be possible that we could be able to look at players above the expected budget?! Now that depends of course on what the budget was - but it does perhaps suggest that our finances may me likely to change soon?!
I hope this is true, but the fact that McLean seems a done deal might suggest not, unfortunately.  :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on June 18, 2015, 11:40:19 AM
I do have faith JP will get it right - eventually. It is absolutely agonising as a supporter though being in the dark!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on June 18, 2015, 12:27:17 PM
Not in anyway getting impatient but did JP say 2 or 3 months ago that he wanted any deal confirmed by a certain date so as to not interfere with pre-season training and player recruitment? If so was he specific on that date?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on June 18, 2015, 12:29:34 PM
Call me a "stick in the mud", but it certainly wouldn't harm us if JP was still in charge for the new season.
He could be tempted to open his purse and show interested parties just how good an investment we would be.

I'm with you regarding JP, but I do feel, as we've heard very little that he will sell before the start of the season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 18, 2015, 12:50:40 PM
Not one to name drop, but can verifify with Olbury if necessary. Was with a certain person within the scouting network yesterday who has  'apparently' been advised to cool off the scouting and 'watch list' for while - as it may be possible that we could be able to look at players above the expected budget?! Now that depends of course on what the budget was - but it does perhaps suggest that our finances may me likely to change soon?!

Obviously I cannot contradict what you have heard, but it would strike me as a very nieve thing to do.
If a deal to purchase fell through and no business had been undertaken we would be left very exposed. I cannot see JP allowing that to happen. Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on June 19, 2015, 01:37:11 PM
For what's worth on a rival site and from a Moderator, it is claimed that a deal has been done with the Chinese guy. Could of course just be an unproven rumour.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 19, 2015, 02:38:42 PM
For what's worth on a rival site and from a Moderator, it is claimed that a deal has been done with the Chinese guy. Could of course just be an unproven rumour.


Hey Behave :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 19, 2015, 03:46:43 PM

Hey Behave :)
Glyn the quote before is correct some mod from another site as said it is a done deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on June 19, 2015, 04:18:30 PM
Glyn the quote before is correct some mod from another site as said it is a done deal.

So it's deffinatley the Chinese? Sorry for being dim here, I just want to clarify.

Not sure how I feel about that? With FFFP in affect we'd be better off with JP I think. But I guess it was going to happen eventually?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 19, 2015, 04:33:01 PM
So it's deffinatley the Chinese? Sorry for being dim here, I just want to clarify.

Not sure how I feel about that? With FFFP in affect we'd be better off with JP I think. But I guess it was going to happen eventually?
No one knows who what's going on really. It is all speculation at the moment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: matth on June 19, 2015, 04:35:58 PM
Glyn the quote before is correct some mod from another site as said it is a done deal.
can you say what site that was on?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 19, 2015, 04:36:28 PM
What site was it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 19, 2015, 04:45:11 PM
Here is the quote.

Quote from: baggiebabe on Today at 08:44:49 AM

I'm told that a Chinese bloke has bought the club.  True or not?  Who knows?

Indeed.  I'm told it's a done deal and here's yeah man:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/wang-jianlin-surpasses-li-ka-shing-as-asias-richest-man-300077521.html
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on June 19, 2015, 04:45:42 PM
I think something maybe close. Maybe due to us not having a sponsor just yet and that a new owner may want his company as club sponsor
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 19, 2015, 04:46:56 PM
I think something maybe close. Maybe due to us not having a sponsor just yet and that a new owner may want his company as club sponsor
That's what I am thinking.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on June 19, 2015, 04:47:08 PM
Someone told me last week it was the Chinese guy and he claimed he had a source in the club.
Said the holdup was the price. He wants to turn us into the next Man City but also talked about relocating the ground.
No idea if it was complete bull
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: east-stand-nick on June 19, 2015, 04:52:22 PM
Someone told me last week it was the Chinese guy and he claimed he had a source in the club.
Said the holdup was the price. He wants to turn us into the next Man City but also talked about relocating the ground.
No idea if it was complete bull

Fingers crossed that it is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on June 19, 2015, 05:24:19 PM
Does anyone really think that someone who was worth £30bn would be arguing with us over a few million if he really did want to turn us into the next Man City?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on June 19, 2015, 05:26:49 PM
That's how people end up with £30 Billion ain't it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on June 19, 2015, 05:29:42 PM
Agreed - hanging over a couple of million pound is still worth doing. I would be stunned if this where true and I would worry slightly about motivation and what would happen to the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 19, 2015, 05:33:30 PM
Dingle or villain on the whind up one thinks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on June 19, 2015, 05:35:37 PM
Why would this "Wang Jianlin" buy us anyway. ?? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 19, 2015, 05:36:38 PM
Don't believe a word of it, just a re-hashed old rumour that some sad person is getting a kick out of.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 19, 2015, 05:38:49 PM
Has Peace set any kind of deadline for when he will decide and announce if we are / aren't being taken over?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on June 19, 2015, 05:43:17 PM
Has Peace set any kind of deadline for when he will decide and announce if we are / aren't being taken over?

A June 30 date has been quoted. Whether it is true or not remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on June 19, 2015, 05:52:59 PM
Yes

I was in a pub one lunchtime with a baggies top on and a guy sitting near started  talking to me and said he was a season ticket holder too
He told me what I put in here. Was he winding me up-i have no idea
However I have posted on the zone for many years and know baggiebabe
If she has posted that with such confidence I now believe it's true
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 19, 2015, 05:54:39 PM
Aside from Peace and his lawyers nobody at the club will know anything. If and when it happens it will be announced and I doubt the club's media team will have more than a few hours advance notice. I therefore would take any rumour at this stage with a massive pinch of salt. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on June 19, 2015, 05:58:46 PM
Sure you have been told that mate.

But it is complete and utter garbage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on June 19, 2015, 06:36:25 PM
No Asian/Chinese owner please, we will become next Birmingham and Cardiff.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on June 19, 2015, 06:50:40 PM
Can anybody believe the rubbish that is spilled on here . This rumour started on Twitter a couple of weeks . The richest man in China is supposed to be buying little old west brom . We all hope for it , but can any of it be confirmed , or nail someone down to verify it . At the moment no .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 19, 2015, 06:55:48 PM
Amazing how many people have sources within the club that tell them what is going on. No one but those involved in any potential deal have a clue, we will know nothing until a deal is officially done or Peace comes out and says nothing is happening.

For what its worth people who post things they have heard often do on good faith but it rarely ends up being accurate. Not much has got out of the club for the last year or two. As for anyone making us the Man City, absolutely no chance, the big clubs saw to that when they voted in favour of financial fair play rules clearly designed to keep them at the top and stop anyone else from spending a fortune like they did to secure their status as the top clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on June 19, 2015, 07:03:57 PM
They are all very good at saying some one told me ,that's fine . Do they ever tell you who that some one is .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 19, 2015, 07:13:41 PM
Amazing how many people have sources within the club that tell them what is going on. No one but those involved in any potential deal have a clue, we will know nothing until a deal is officially done or Peace comes out and says nothing is happening.

For what its worth people who post things they have heard often do on good faith but it rarely ends up being accurate. Not much has got out of the club for the last year or two. As for anyone making us the Man City, absolutely no chance, the big clubs saw to that when they voted in favour of financial fair play rules clearly designed to keep them at the top and stop anyone else from spending a fortune like they did to secure their status as the top clubs.
I take the view of all of these sources being false because why would anyone within the hierarchy tell a friend and risk he's job ? If privy information starts getting leaked the mole will soon be supposed, especially considering how careful Peace and close colleagues are with information.

We had couple years ago in the dressing room and that soon got addressed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on June 19, 2015, 07:34:02 PM
No Asian/Chinese owner please, we will become next Birmingham and Cardiff.
A risk yes but i´d take it. WE have been going along for too long now with poor footballing decisions,poor transfer windows and the same old ,same old reasons and excuses for the way we are doing things perhaps new faces at the top will lead to a freshening up all the way down the line !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: fatboy_coach on June 19, 2015, 08:20:51 PM
I take the view of all of these sources being false because why would anyone within the hierarchy tell a friend and risk he's job ? If privy information starts getting leaked the mole will soon be supposed, especially considering how careful Peace and close colleagues are with information.

This is going to come out one morning to the stock exchange/FA and that will be first we all know of it. The company I work for got an offer to be bought out by a competitor on Wednesday and the first we heard was the stock exchange announcement! And it's a $600million deal, so in the same region of money as the Albion takeover. We're pretty small and there wasn't a sniff of anything, so I very much doubt there will be a leak especially as only Peace has to make the decision.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on June 19, 2015, 09:04:27 PM
I cannot imagine anything being released until 8th August.
The reason being that the number 8 is considered lucky in Chinese folk law.
So it may be at 8.08 on the 8th day of the 8th month, that we hear of something.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on June 19, 2015, 09:45:06 PM
how does that work out if they aint Chinese?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on June 19, 2015, 09:52:21 PM
how does that work out if they aint Chinese?
The new buyer, may well "Yank" it out a bit more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Yamaka on June 19, 2015, 10:27:58 PM
http://
I cannot imagine anything being released until 8th August.
The reason being that the number 8 is considered lucky in Chinese folk law.
So it may be at 8.08 on the 8th day of the 8th month, that we hear of something.
Whilst that might be auspicious I guess there might be more pressing needs to do the deal sooner. Maybe that day can be used for our marquee signing  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 20, 2015, 07:42:39 AM
What will Peace do after a sale? I would like to think he would take on another club and have another go because he has done a great job with us and would be ashame to see him walk away from the game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 20, 2015, 09:45:57 AM
I couldn't see him taking on another club. I think he will invest in something different.

If he get's £150m-£200m i can't see him doing a lot.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 20, 2015, 10:01:04 AM
So wang jianlin was involved in taking us to China in 79?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 20, 2015, 10:08:26 AM
What will Peace do after a sale? I would like to think he would take on another club and have another go because he has done a great job with us and would be ashame to see him walk away from the game.

I expect he will see it as job done. Gained control of a football club for virtually no money yet walk away years later with over £100m in profit, I expect he'll either retire or move on to something else as he wont be able to do what he has here with another club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on June 20, 2015, 10:15:42 AM
This is going to come out one morning to the stock exchange/FA and that will be first we all know of it. The company I work for got an offer to be bought out by a competitor on Wednesday and the first we heard was the stock exchange announcement! And it's a $600million deal, so in the same region of money as the Albion takeover. We're pretty small and there wasn't a sniff of anything, so I very much doubt there will be a leak especially as only Peace has to make the decision.

We aren't floated, so forget the stock exchange.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on June 20, 2015, 10:41:05 AM
So wang jianlin was involved in taking us to China in 79?

Digging out some research apparently the England national squad was supposed to go but was unable to for whatever reason and Bert Millichip at the time suggested that we go as a replacement.  As to who was involved on the Chinese side I have no idea.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 20, 2015, 10:49:50 AM
I heard that Janlin was a government official in some capacity when we did the tour.

Maybe some people are taking 2+2 and getting 5?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 20, 2015, 10:55:53 AM
Who knows , that could explain some potential interest from him ? He has said in an interview he may buy a football club in England didn't he? Let's hope so!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on June 20, 2015, 10:59:47 AM
Digging out some research apparently the England national squad was supposed to go but was unable to for whatever reason and Bert Millichip at the time suggested that we go as a replacement.  As to who was involved on the Chinese side I have no idea.

Not that it means anything but it is interesting. We were the first English team to visit China? I didn't know about that.

-------------------------------------------

Stephen Perry, chairman of the 48 Group Club in UK, on Wednesday hailed Chinese billionaire Wang Jianlin a "pioneer" after he bought a 20% stake in Spanish champions Atletico Madrid for 45m euros($52m).

"I would think he is a pioneer against a broader strategy that will emerge over 5 years or so," Perry, who himself failed in an attempt to buy an 8% stake in English Premier League side Arsenal five years ago.

"He would be aware of the long term interest of China to build its capability in football," he told Xinhua.

Perry, whose independent business network committed to promoting positive links with China, is a pioneer in Chinese football history.

He brought West Bromwich Albion football club to Beijing to take on the "China Eleven" on Aug. 1, 1979, making it the first English team visiting China. He later found out late leader Deng Xiaoping was sitting in the stadium that day.

http://www.china.org.cn/world/Off_the_Wire/2015-01/22/content_34624363.htm
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on June 20, 2015, 11:09:36 AM
Reflecting on all this talk of takeover two things spring to mind;

1. We aren't pulling up trees in terms of signings - is this because we wish to wait and then utilise a big spending pot once the takeover is complete? I'd like to think so as otherwise wouldn't Tony P be jumping up and down about inactivity.

2. The lack of noise and the lack of communication out of the club does make me wonder if a deal is now very close. There's no way that JP would wish to alert other clubs to any buyer just in case they change their minds.

Finally a change of ownership could well be very profound - the things we love about the club might well disappear - takeovers are challenging and as many works as fail. We are potentially about to be dropped into the unknown. However I have faith that JP will have done is due diligence on this and will find a sympathetic long term owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 20, 2015, 11:20:35 AM
I heard that Janlin was a government official in some capacity when we did the tour.

Maybe some people are taking 2+2 and getting 5?

He served in the People's Liberation Army between 1970 and 1988.

"Wang followed in his father's footsteps by enrolling in the People's Liberation Army in 1970 at just 15-years-old. He soon advanced to Platoon Leader and eight years later he was specially selected to attend Dalian Army School, where he became a staff officer and eventually its deputy director. He left the army in 1988 and formed a property company in the north-eastern city of Dalian using around £80,000 of borrowed money".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3092637/So-rich-s-got-not-one-TWO-private-jets-James-Bond-speedboat-firm-football-club-Inside-mind-boggling-world-China-s-25-billion-man.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3092637/So-rich-s-got-not-one-TWO-private-jets-James-Bond-speedboat-firm-football-club-Inside-mind-boggling-world-China-s-25-billion-man.html)

Albion tour guide? Doubt it but who knows?  ;).

Personally have no idea who will be taking us over, if anybody.
What I do know is that 'ITK people' all over Tw@tter have been saying he's taking over 'in the next couple of days' for what seems to be a rather long time now. There was even a post on The Sons of Albion page to this effect on June 5th.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 20, 2015, 11:59:17 AM
Happy to think that this will all be resolved in the next week or so been a ridiculous guessing game for the last couple weeks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 20, 2015, 12:12:23 PM
Happy to think that this will all be resolved in the next week or so been a ridiculous guessing game for the last couple weeks.
I hope so as well doing my bloody head in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 20, 2015, 01:04:13 PM
Getting so sick of this... ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on June 20, 2015, 01:08:02 PM
Reflecting on all this talk of takeover two things spring to mind;

1. We aren't pulling up trees in terms of signings
- is this because we wish to wait and then utilise a big spending pot once the takeover is complete? I'd like to think so as otherwise wouldn't Tony P be jumping up and down about inactivity.

2. The lack of noise and the lack of communication out of the club does make me wonder if a deal is now very close. There's no way that JP would wish to alert other clubs to any buyer just in case they change their minds.

Finally a change of ownership could well be very profound - the things we love about the club might well disappear - takeovers are challenging and as many works as fail. We are potentially about to be dropped into the unknown. However I have faith that JP will have done is due diligence on this and will find a sympathetic long term owner.

When have we ever pulled up any trees re transfers? This summer will be no different.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 20, 2015, 01:08:29 PM
I expect he will see it as job done. Gained control of a football club for virtually no money yet walk away years later with over £100m in profit, I expect he'll either retire or move on to something else as he wont be able to do what he has here with another club.
I imagine West Brom are not Peace's only business/asset, it's extremely rare that successful businessmen have one investment, I'm sure he'll already have millions in stocks/bonds, property and other physical businesses' we're not aware of. I imagine he'll have some sort of mega-investment fund to live off nicely for the rest of his days...not bad for a boy from Smethwick!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: fatboy_coach on June 20, 2015, 08:30:27 PM
We aren't floated, so forget the stock exchange.

Fair enough, my point being that leaks about the buyer aren't going to happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: merson94 on June 20, 2015, 09:01:10 PM
I for one would be very happy if someone wants to buy the us and invest heavily to make us progress as a club. However, I'm very much the believer that a club should be British run (Being a bit of purist). I've always said I'd have much less love for our club if we went American, Chinese or Arab. I've always been proud that Albion is run by an Englishman, not only English but from the area as well, how rare is that! and has predominantly stuck to British managers. Going foreign could seriously damage the heritage of this club and is something I personally wouldn't be that happy with
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 20, 2015, 09:46:51 PM
I for one would be very happy if someone wants to buy the us and invest heavily to make us progress as a club. However, I'm very much the believer that a club should be British run (Being a bit of purist). I've always said I'd have much less love for our club if we went American, Chinese or Arab. I've always been proud that Albion is run by an Englishman, not only English but from the area as well, how rare is that! and has predominantly stuck to British managers. Going foreign could seriously damage the heritage of this club and is something I personally wouldn't be that happy with
our starting line up next season won't contain more than 2 foreign players I reckon, bold statement but can see it being true and I like that to be honest very rare nowadays for a team to be that home grown.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 20, 2015, 11:16:40 PM
I for one would be very happy if someone wants to buy the us and invest heavily to make us progress as a club. However, I'm very much the believer that a club should be British run (Being a bit of purist). I've always said I'd have much less love for our club if we went American, Chinese or Arab. I've always been proud that Albion is run by an Englishman, not only English but from the area as well, how rare is that! and has predominantly stuck to British managers. Going foreign could seriously damage the heritage of this club and is something I personally wouldn't be that happy with

Billy Bassett would turn in his grave. He wouldn't even tolerate Scots.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 21, 2015, 08:03:49 AM
I've heard things are really slow and may not happen at all now. Hence us moving on with signing players like mcClean. It appears peace is here to stay.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 21, 2015, 08:38:41 AM
I've heard things are really slow and may not happen at all now. Hence us moving on with signing players like mcClean. It appears peace is here to stay.

Who have you heard that off mate? Any idea what seems to be slowing it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 21, 2015, 08:54:46 AM
I've heard things are really slow and may not happen at all now. Hence us moving on with signing players like mcClean. It appears peace is here to stay.

Although maybe not a bad thing it would feel a bit of anti climax now. But I admit that's what I fear may happen in the next week or two. Announcement nothing doing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on June 21, 2015, 09:02:34 AM
I think we would hear if the deal was dead. There wouldn't be any point keeping up a pretence.

I suspect due diligence has gone well and the buyer(s) are trying to chip the price.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 21, 2015, 10:16:23 AM
I've heard things are really slow and may not happen at all now. Hence us moving on with signing players like mcClean. It appears peace is here to stay.

Completely opposite to what I heard. I was told by my mate last night that it hasn't been closer and things are moving along nicely. We would get some sort of announcement if a deal was dead in the water. Peace is apparently viewing the potential Demba Ba signing as a parting gift.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 21, 2015, 10:38:18 AM
People need to stop listening to Albion fans drunk up in the boozer claiming they know Jeremy's lovely lady's sister, What will be will be we might not even hear for another couple weeks, stop torturing yourself  :D.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 21, 2015, 10:39:08 AM
I only heard that from the wigan end, someone close with mcclean.. So it could be wrong. But he never lies to me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 21, 2015, 10:55:32 AM
People need to stop listening to Albion fans drunk up in the boozer claiming they know Jeremy's lovely lady's sister, What will be will be we might not even hear for another couple weeks, stop torturing yourself  :D.

As far as I recall my friend is yet to be wrong so I trust him when he offers me information from inside the club. I have no reason not to trust him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on June 21, 2015, 11:25:07 AM
Chillax, enjoy the odd rumour and wait for the outcome, all adds to the mix and interest, all will out in the end! 8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 21, 2015, 11:50:51 AM
its all poppycock.JP will be here for the forseeable
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on June 21, 2015, 07:42:29 PM
its all poppycock.JP will be here for the forseeable

"its all poppycock". Not sure that holds any weight. It's common knowledge (and not denied by the club in any way shape or form) that there's been interest. "Poppycock" is rather desmisive and dare I say 'ignorant', as there is clearly activity behind the scenes. You state that "JP will be here for the forseeable (sic) ". So what makes you so privy to such information.....if not, why should this sentence hold more weight than many who make seemingly more educated guesses than yourself?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on June 21, 2015, 10:56:30 PM
I'd suggest we will know about the takeover within the next 10 days along with the shirt sponsor deal which has now been finalised. Watch this space...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: matth on June 21, 2015, 11:46:06 PM
The shirt sponsor has nothing to do with potential takeover. Already agreed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Downunder Stripes on June 22, 2015, 03:54:17 AM
The shirt sponsor has nothing to do with potential takeover. Already agreed

Agreed with who ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on June 22, 2015, 05:38:12 AM
Agreed with who ?
If they are going to announce the McClean signing today then expect an announcement about the shirt sponsor at about the same time. It wouldn't be right having a picture of the new signing without him holding a club shirt ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on June 22, 2015, 06:13:47 AM


They usually hold the shirt showing the back with their name and number on, so the sponsor doesn't come into play anyway.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on June 22, 2015, 06:28:04 AM
The shirt sponsor has nothing to do with potential takeover. Already agreed

My point was, they may for a double announcement. Jianlin holding the shirt for eg
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Downunder Stripes on June 22, 2015, 07:12:48 AM
My point was, they may for a double announcement. Jianlin holding the shirt for eg
That was my feeling also.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 22, 2015, 08:00:52 AM
If peace has said he will announce if a deal has or hasn't been done by 30th July, 10 days from Sunday is the 1st so maybe he will announce it then with the new sponsor
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on June 22, 2015, 10:33:36 PM
I notice that the James Nursey is saying that we will sign 10 players this summer and that we're in discussion with a Chinese consortia around a £100m plus deal. This is the first specific mention I have seen in recent weeks. Maybe takeover is really not far away.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 22, 2015, 10:41:35 PM
I notice that the James Nursey is saying that we will sign 10 players this summer and that we're in discussion with a Chinese consortia around a £100m plus deal. This is the first specific mention I have seen in recent weeks. Maybe takeover is really not far away.

I take anything that man says with a pinch of salt. Bill Howell has said seven on a few occasions and I agree with that figure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 23, 2015, 01:03:07 AM
Cannot say that I am overly familiar with the burbling's of Mr Pursey.
However, from my readings of the Mail I believe that Mr Howell largely burbles like a burst backside hole.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 23, 2015, 08:54:49 AM
The club have made their job really hard. You read there stuff and feels like typical paper rumours. Bill yesterday was rewriting stuff off the website like it was news. Ive asked them a few times about take over and they just don't reply.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 23, 2015, 10:35:07 AM
on the back of us signing a league one footballer for 1.5million i cant see any potential that we are about to be taken over by a billionaire
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 23, 2015, 10:36:03 AM
on the back of us signing a league one footballer for 1.5million i cant see any potential that we are about to be taken over by a billionaire

Peace will support transfers until he is officially gone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on June 23, 2015, 10:52:15 AM
Peace is in talks with a Chinese consortium about a £100m-plus purchase.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-transfers-james-mcclean-5931315 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-transfers-james-mcclean-5931315)


Tell me it's not going to happen please. ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on June 23, 2015, 12:09:22 PM
Tell me it's not going to happen please. ???
I will just point out that the mirror is little more than a comic for adolescents and if you think the the Mail and Post journalists go in for lazy reporting the red top guys taught them everything they know!

Personally I'm fairly relaxed about whoever it turns out to be, what will be will be and there is fu*k all I can do to change or effect it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 23, 2015, 12:40:12 PM
I will just point out that the mirror is little more than a comic for adolescents and if you think the the Mail and Post journalists go in for lazy reporting the red top guys taught them everything they know!

Personally I'm fairly relaxed about whoever it turns out to be, what will be will be and there is fu*k all I can do to change or effect it.

I couldn't agree more, alot of us myself included are hoping and dreaming for something. Purely beacuse we've had some really poor transfer windows. Peace is good but maybe a change would see us move forwards rather than backwards. Our forwards haven't got the same punch as long and odemwingie did. Lets be honest saido has been a find in some regard.
Lets hope something good happens.. But we have to be realistic.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: joeymayo on June 24, 2015, 11:33:30 AM
You should know that the Post & Mail is part of the Trinity Mirror Group and is one of a few local rags owned by them.

The reason you will get duplicate information on the various websites is because it comes from a central source, so it makes people like Bill Howell look lazy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on June 24, 2015, 12:54:30 PM
I reckon we are getting close to a decision either way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 24, 2015, 01:23:29 PM
A bit of an anti climax me thinks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 24, 2015, 01:33:36 PM
A bit of an anti climax me thinks

When you have people expecting a billionaire to turn us into the next Manchester City I think that's clearly inevitable.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on June 24, 2015, 04:30:55 PM
A bit of an anti climax me thinks

Are you ITK, or just being realistic/pessimistic?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on June 25, 2015, 12:57:26 PM
Interesting ...

"Wang Jianlin, its chairman, told Xinhua News Agency that he expects to announce a major acquisition very soon that would be "good news" for Chinese soccer, without giving further details."

http://m.chinadaily.com.cn/en/2015-06/25/content_21096147.htm
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on June 25, 2015, 01:27:27 PM
It has been indicated to me by someone who is well connected with the club that there will be a definitive announcement re: the club being sold by the end of next week
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on June 25, 2015, 01:35:51 PM
Interesting ...

"Wang Jianlin, its chairman, told Xinhua News Agency that he expects to announce a major acquisition very soon that would be "good news" for Chinese soccer, without giving further details."

http://m.chinadaily.com.cn/en/2015-06/25/content_21096147.htm

I think this is going to be Villa's new owner, I really hope not as It would probably mean a return to the top half of the table for the scumbags.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 25, 2015, 01:52:10 PM
Thought villa were being bought by a yank?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 25, 2015, 02:02:00 PM
I think this is going to be Villa's new owner, I really hope not as It would probably mean a return to the top half of the table for the scumbags.


This is my biggest fear, i suppose also you can blame us for their success
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on June 25, 2015, 03:30:40 PM
Thought villa were being bought by a yank?

I thought so too however there's rumours it could also be this guy, I think there's a better chance of Villa getting taken over this Summer than us, if your looking at it from a business standpoint their a better prospect than we are unfortunately.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 25, 2015, 03:36:03 PM
I thought so too however there's rumours it could also be this guy, I think there's a better chance of Villa getting taken over this Summer than us, if your looking at it from a business standpoint their a better prospect than we are unfortunately.

Yes, but then they've formally been on the market a year longer so it's hardly an achievement. And they're really not a better prospect. They have debts, have struggled worse than us for the last four seasons, and their average attendance last season had them at 80% capacity. Lot of risk there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 25, 2015, 03:57:49 PM
I thought so too however there's rumours it could also be this guy, I think there's a better chance of Villa getting taken over this Summer than us, if your looking at it from a business standpoint their a better prospect than we are unfortunately.

I do agree although I feel if wang jianlin was involved in 1979 taking us to China then it could be likely he would be interested in the baggies instead
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on June 25, 2015, 03:58:26 PM
Yes, but then they've formally been on the market a year longer so it's hardly an achievement. And they're really not a better prospect. They have debts, have struggled worse than us for the last four seasons, and their average attendance last season had them at 80% capacity. Lot of risk there.

The trouble is....its their potential. Sad to say, but truth hurts.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on June 25, 2015, 04:59:03 PM
What potential, saved from oblivion by Deadly Doug and again by the americans, they have a bigger ground - whoopy do!!! - old stands that need knocking down, difficult to get to, narrow fan base and they play in claret and blue, at the best Birminghams West Ham ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on June 25, 2015, 05:04:00 PM
What potential, saved from oblivion by Deadly Doug and again by the americans, they have a bigger ground - whoopy do!!! - old stands that need knocking down, difficult to get to, narrow fan base and they play in claret and blue, at the best Birminghams West Ham ;D

They did win something in Europe in the 80's though so I heard!  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 25, 2015, 05:07:27 PM
This wouldn't be an anti climax it would be an embarrassment.

Still i never expect more from our lot. I doubt we are being taken over by anyone as we are trawling the lower leagues for signings again.

ST's sold. Job done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on June 25, 2015, 05:16:46 PM
This wouldn't be an anti climax it would be an embarrassment.

Still i never expect more from our lot. I doubt we are being taken over by anyone as we are trawling the lower leagues for signings again.

ST's sold. Job done.

Agreed. For me it was/is unlikely to happen. The initial asking price was ridiculous IMO. JP will say he tried and that the uncertainty has had an effect on this summers window.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on June 25, 2015, 05:34:40 PM
i wish jp would just come out and say hes staying now as this is dragging on we wont get taken over will just be the same usual season  for us while villa get a rich backer bound to happen
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 25, 2015, 05:50:49 PM
This wouldn't be an anti climax it would be an embarrassment.

Still i never expect more from our lot. I doubt we are being taken over by anyone as we are trawling the lower leagues for signings again.

ST's sold. Job done.

Why embarrassing? The owner looked to sell the club there were interested parties but a price could not be agreed so what?

We don't need to be bailed out and we don't need an owner to subsidise the club. If Peace goes he will probably not be replaced by a Sugar Daddy so this is West Bromwich Albion we have never been awash with money get used to the idea.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 25, 2015, 05:51:03 PM
I was accused of being premature and told to chill in my earlier thread. But i have been a baggie too long.
Here we are almost July, no buyer, no sponsor, Mulumbu gone, no Real Madrid starlet.
Instead we have James McClean, and are trying to land a player from MK Dons who they got as a free.
You couldn't make it up.

Well done Jezza, fooled us all again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 25, 2015, 06:08:09 PM
I was accused of being premature and told to chill in my earlier thread. But i have been a baggie too long.
Here we are almost July, no buyer, no sponsor, Mulumbu gone, no Real Madrid starlet.
Instead we have James McClean, and are trying to land a player from MK Dons who they got as a free.
You couldn't make it up.

Well done Jezza, fooled us all again.

Yep it is still June, sale will happen or it won't and it won't make much difference either way so let's burst that bubble straight away. Sponsor is in the pipeline. Real Madrid starlet was never a runner and we are linked with every tom dick and harry at the moment so why get alarmed over yet another spurious link? McClean has signed we need wingers and blow me down he is a winger. Mulumbu who barely featured under Pulis has left.

No I haven't made anything up or left anything out and JP has fooled me or anyone else how?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on June 25, 2015, 07:03:26 PM
I was accused of being premature and told to chill in my earlier thread. But i have been a baggie too long.
Here we are almost July, no buyer, no sponsor, Mulumbu gone, no Real Madrid starlet.
Instead we have James McClean, and are trying to land a player from MK Dons who they got as a free.
You couldn't make it up.

Well done Jezza, fooled us all again.

To be honest it's your own fault for reading and believing stuff on dodgy rumour sites and in the press.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on June 25, 2015, 07:25:43 PM
We are in far,far better shape now then we were this time last season, it's a different Club.
Sponsor is sorted, back in stripes, very cool away strip, and a real leader in charge.
The new ownership issue is a distraction, that is causing unnecessary uncertainty and
It needs to be put to bed as soon as possible either way.
Worse case scenario is JP stays and we will stay solid and look for a top ten finish.
This time last year we would have sold our grandmothers to guarantee 16th or above.
New owners could bring anything...we just don't know... Obviously a £50 million war chest
would be nice.
We could be far worse off....and have Tiny Tim as a Manager, Sideways Sam as a coach ,
a ground that needs tearing down, deluded supporters and an off- purple home shirt, humiliated
In front of the whole world at Wembley and finished the season a hairs breadth from disaster.
COYB



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 25, 2015, 07:33:28 PM
To be honest it's your own fault for reading and believing stuff on dodgy rumour sites and in the press.

I wasn't the one who started a thread about us being sold...or signing a Real madrid player.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 25, 2015, 07:36:12 PM
We are in far,far better shape now then we were this time last season, it's a different Club.
Sponsor is sorted, back in stripes, very cool away strip, and a real leader in charge.
The new ownership issue is a distraction, that is causing unnecessary uncertainty and
It needs to be put to bed as soon as possible either way.
Worse case scenario is JP stays and we will stay solid and look for a top ten finish.
This time last year we would have sold our grandmothers to guarantee 16th or above.
New owners could bring anything...we just don't know... Obviously a £50 million war chest
would be nice.
We could be far worse off....and have Tiny Tim as a Manager, Sideways Sam as a coach ,
a ground that needs tearing down, deluded supporters and an off- purple home shirt, humiliated
In front of the whole world at Wembley and finished the season a hairs breadth from disaster.
COYB

Still shopping at Aldi 13 years after first getting into the Prem. Same old club as far as i can see.

Peace has pulled this selling stunt once before in close season, then has an excuse for not being able to afford decent players.
How much is the prem paying these day's?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 25, 2015, 07:39:50 PM
I think it could be for the villa as much as it pains me to say for the same valuation they have done more in the last 30 years but you just never know i could be wrong, Hope im wrong to id like us to be taken over JP has been fantastic but the prem is moving on now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on June 25, 2015, 07:40:08 PM
I wasn't the one who started a thread about us being sold...or signing a Real madrid player.

Seems like your the one who believes everything though, come on mate surely you have been on the internet long enough to know anyone can make a rumour up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 25, 2015, 07:44:51 PM
I think it could be for the villa as much as it pains me to say for the same valuation they have done more in the last 30 years but you just never know i could be wrong, Hope im wrong to id like us to be taken over JP has been fantastic but the prem is moving on now.


will the Villa being 100 million in debt put them off, lets hope so
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 25, 2015, 08:32:02 PM

will the Villa being 100 million in debt put them off, lets hope so

Doubt it if he is worth 27 billion. He can wipe the debts off at a stroke.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 25, 2015, 09:13:59 PM
Seems like your the one who believes everything though, come on mate surely you have been on the internet long enough to know anyone can make a rumour up.

Yeah, but the rumours start from Peace himself by saying he is selling the club and has parties interested. Then silence. I know it's all pie in the sky, but i think it's cruel of him to get an old Baggie dreaming just to sell ST's.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 25, 2015, 09:20:54 PM
Yeah, but the rumours start from Peace himself by saying he is selling the club and has parties interested. Then silence. I know it's all pie in the sky, but i think it's cruel of him to get an old Baggie dreaming just to sell ST's.
I thought you can get season tickets up to a week before season ?.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 25, 2015, 09:31:34 PM
Renewals? I can't afford one anyway this season Bob. May pick a few games.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 25, 2015, 09:33:38 PM
Renewals? I can't afford one anyway this season Bob. May pick a few games.
Same boat, should be releasing matchday prices soon hopefully we do that deal with swansea and Newcastle again .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on June 25, 2015, 09:42:37 PM
So, is the club going to be sold or what?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: popbaggie28 on June 25, 2015, 09:48:08 PM
So, is the club going to be sold or what?
Who knows? It's a roller coaster ride following the baggies 😐
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 25, 2015, 10:00:52 PM
So, is the club going to be sold or what?

My thoughts entirely, I'm totally confused with what's going on and who's said what. So what if the billionaire buys villa. We will just get on with it as we usually do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on June 25, 2015, 10:26:17 PM
The Club should at least issue a statement to tell fans if the negotiations are continuing or not. Come on Chris Lepkowski earn your corn! As an ex newspaper journalist you should know the importance of keeping fans informed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 25, 2015, 11:01:15 PM
The Club should at least issue a statement to tell fans if the negotiations are continuing or not. Come on Chris Lepkowski earn your corn! As an ex newspaper journalist you should know the importance of keeping fans informed.

No disrespect but the club don't have to do anything. These are private negotiations between a seller and a potential buyer. The fans will find out in the near future one way or another. These things take time. Let's not forget the club not only need to negotiate with the interested party but also need to get approval by the premier league
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on June 25, 2015, 11:44:30 PM
Good post. In the hands of lawyers
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 25, 2015, 11:57:19 PM
Still shopping at Aldi 13 years after first getting into the Prem. Same old club as far as i can see.

Peace has pulled this selling stunt once before in close season, then has an excuse for not being able to afford decent players.
How much is the prem paying these day's?
If Aldi shopping can get you finishes at 13th, 11th, 10th and 8th then so be it. Also, Aldi is quite nice these days!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on June 26, 2015, 02:28:28 AM
Surely if this bloke was buying villa he wouldnt have allowed for quickbooks to sponsor them he would have his companies. Which makes me wonder why havent we still got a sponsor and why is this bloke making an anouncement within the next week or so. May just be wishful thinking but the logic in him buying villa dont add up to me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on June 26, 2015, 06:58:14 AM
Surely if this bloke was buying villa he wouldnt have allowed for quickbooks to sponsor them he would have his companies. Which makes me wonder y havent we still got a sponsor and why is this bloke making an anouncement within the next week or so. May just be wishful thinking but the logic in him buying villa dont add up to me.

That's a great shout re Quickbooks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 26, 2015, 07:27:48 AM
I think we will hear something midweek next week about it, don't know why , and probably getting my hopes up but I've got a feeling it may be the Chinese bloke.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PortsmouthBaggie on June 26, 2015, 07:39:12 AM
Just wait it out, if something happens we'll be told.
Get on with your lives.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 26, 2015, 08:08:34 AM
Where's this 'the owner will have their own sponsor on the shirt' come from? Not many teams have that at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on June 26, 2015, 09:20:08 AM
Qpr
Cardiff
Man city to effect
A way of getting around ffp
Just sounds a bit odd that this chinese bloke would have been happy with quickbooks as sponsor when u look at his worth and buisenesses. Its just a hunch. A very hopeful one!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on June 26, 2015, 09:29:44 AM
Why is there this assumption that any Chinese takeover interest must involve Wang Jianlin? Yes, we know that there has been interest from Chinese consortiums in U.S. and Villa and recent reports have suggested the Chinese group is the front runner for us. However, there isn't only one very wealthy man in China who might be interested in sports acquisitions. Wang Jianlin may well be interested in buying us but it's far more likely to be a different person or persons from that part of the world IMO.

Anyway as others have said its all guessing right now. The club have rightly played it close to their chest. They don't need to keep making statements and updates just like they don't need to with transfers. All that does is give fans fuel to jump to conclusions, annoys all the other parties involved and weakens the negotiating position.

I do think we will hear something in the next week or so, simply because we are starting to get too close to the new season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 26, 2015, 10:14:15 AM
I was accused of being premature and told to chill in my earlier thread. But i have been a baggie too long.
Here we are almost July, no buyer, no sponsor, Mulumbu gone, no Real Madrid starlet.
Instead we have James McClean, and are trying to land a player from MK Dons who they got as a free.
You couldn't make it up.

Well done Jezza, fooled us all again.

You could make it up??...most of what you have posted was made up

You chose to believe it so why are you blaming JP for something you have been taken in by?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on June 26, 2015, 11:07:49 AM
I do agree although I feel if wang jianlin was involved in 1979 taking us to China then it could be likely he would be interested in the baggies instead

He had nothing to do with us going to China. That is 100% fAcT.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on June 26, 2015, 11:12:25 AM
Where's this 'the owner will have their own sponsor on the shirt' come from? Not many teams have that at all.

Indeed. Albion have also been whoring the shirt sponsorship out desperately too. So just think that it's a coincidence.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 26, 2015, 11:26:48 AM
He had nothing to do with us going to China. That is 100% fAcT.

Others said he may have? Who knows
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on June 26, 2015, 11:41:40 AM
further to add the club are NOT ALLOWED to comment on any potential buyer or acquisition while negotiations are in progress.  This is actually a breach for quoted companies and the penalty can be a prison sentence. 

If negotiations are advanced etc. then a confidentiality agreement would have also been signed.  so why doesn't every one who is getting so het up Chill the F out relax the teams are only returning to pre-season next week and various players contracts do not actually either end or move in to the next year until the 30th June.....so why on earth do people expect a influx of player to have arrived in time for Monday...

Really I have said it before and I will say it again..

the biggest problem with Fans is that since the emergency of Football manager and championship manager they think they have become educated in to the ways in which clubs are run and how easy it is to sign players, this has allowed them to become "keyboard warriors" and bring the whole mood of forums like this down... I really do despair for some people
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: apple on June 26, 2015, 11:47:13 AM
I hope we would have been informed by now, considering the deadline JP set, if a takeover wasnt imminent.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 26, 2015, 11:51:50 AM
I thought that vile had signed an exclusivity agreement to negotiate with the yank?  I don't remember hearing that it had been cancelled.  So, they can't be talking to the Chinese.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on June 26, 2015, 12:30:18 PM
I thought that vile had signed an exclusivity agreement to negotiate with the yank?  I don't remember hearing that it had been cancelled.  So, they can't be talking to the Chinese.

They've signed an exclusivity agreement with someone; don't remember it being confirmed as the US interest. For what its worth my view is that the US interest is the most likely party to have been granted exclusivity, given the Quickbooks tie up and Lerner's US background - though that's just speculation on my part. 

The Wang Jianlin link to us is a case of 2+2 =5 at the moment. i.e. he's about to announce significant sporting/footballing investment in europe (2) + we've been talking to a chinese interest (2) = chinese billionaire is our buyer (5)

As A5HB pointed out , there's more than one wealthy person in China.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on June 26, 2015, 12:37:48 PM
Others said he may have? Who knows

Nope.

It comes from this story:
http://www.china.org.cn/world/Off_the_Wire/2015-01/22/content_34624363.htm

Which clearly says that Stephen Perry was involved in the trip.

The real reason Albion ended up going was that the England team pulled out after the embarrassment of not qualifying for the 1978 world cup. Bert Millichip's mutual connection the FA and Albion ensured that Albion filled in.

It just seems that people have read that article wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 26, 2015, 12:44:52 PM
I posted a link to an article somewhere earlier on this thread, pointing out how unlikely it was that Wang Jianlin had anything to do with organising the Chinese tour.

This was based on him serving in the Peoples Liberation Army between 1970 and 1988.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 26, 2015, 12:45:18 PM
Reading that started a mad train of thought in my head,
Mr Jianling now owns Sunseeker, maker of luxury yachts,

I can just imagine a fleet of luxury junks moored below halfords lane bridge waiting to waft visiting dignatories on a voyage of discovery around Tipton, The Soho loop and Smethwick !!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 26, 2015, 12:46:20 PM
Baggies Barge eat your heart out.
 :).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 26, 2015, 12:46:26 PM
This time of year we see who is in the 'glass is half full' camp and who is in the 'glass is half empty but either way it's not been washed properly, there's p*ss in the glass and someone's poured bleach into it' camp.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on June 26, 2015, 12:55:11 PM
I have been involved in 'takeover talks' in years gone by but on a much smaller scale to the current one at the Albion. I had to sign the confidentiality agreement and was warned of instant dismissal for 'gross misconduct', if I uttered a word! Its hardly surprising we have had no leaks from anyone ITK.  Have patience I am sure we will know in a week. It may be a bad analogy but as far as JP is concerned he does not have to inform supporters whats happening, just because you might drink a bottle of coke every day doesnt give you any more right to know whats going on if Coco cola are being taken over! 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: we8seals on June 26, 2015, 03:54:43 PM
Reading that started a mad train of thought in my head,
Mr Jianling now owns Sunseeker, maker of luxury yachts,

I can just imagine a fleet of luxury junks moored below halfords lane bridge waiting to waft visiting dignatories on a voyage of discovery around Tipton, The Soho loop and Smethwick !!

A new range of Sunseeker luxury barges on the Dudley canal maybe!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 26, 2015, 04:56:45 PM
What a ridiculous post. Calm down!

What part of it is not true?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 26, 2015, 05:06:08 PM
What part of it is not true?

Most of it apart from Mulumbu leaving.

 How do you now we don't have a sponsor lined up, How do you know we don't have a buyer lined up, The Ben Reeves link is/was just a RUMOUR as was the supposed interest in a real Madrid kid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 26, 2015, 05:11:50 PM
The only part probably not true is Jezza fooling us all because he ain't fooled me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stever60 on June 26, 2015, 05:14:48 PM
The only part probably not true is Jezza fooling us all because he ain't fooled me.
Oh dear, the club is a shambles, isnt it................
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 26, 2015, 05:16:58 PM
What part of it is not true?

He didn't call you a liar, he said you were being ridiculous and need to calm down.

I was accused of being premature and told to chill in my earlier thread. But i have been a baggie too long.
Here we are almost July, no buyer, no sponsor, Mulumbu gone, no Real Madrid starlet.
Instead we have James McClean, and are trying to land a player from MK Dons who they got as a free.
You couldn't make it up.

Well done Jezza, fooled us all again.


We have people interested in the club. We have buyers. They haven't signed off on the deal yet. So calm down.

We went two seasons without a sponsor, why do we NEED to have one in July? Are you really worried about us not having some letters and maybe a picture on our shirts? It doesn't matter, so calm down.

Mulumbu's contract ran down and he's left. Didn't feature much last season and not the lynchpin he used to be. Adequate cover in his position, so calm down.

The Real Madrid 'starlet' in question plays in the Spanish equivalent of league one. Some Spanish newspaper mentioned him weeks ago and you're still mad? Not sure why not signing a Real Madrid reserves player causes you so much panic, so calm down.

Again I seriously worry how everything you read becomes gospel. Angry we haven't signed an unknown South American lad and angry an MK Dons player has been mentioned in the same breath as us by someone on twitter. It's 95% garbage, so calm down.

You can make it up, because it is made up.

Where is ANY of what you've said anything to do with Peace?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 26, 2015, 05:22:47 PM
Oh dear, the club is a shambles, isnt it................

Peace had done well for the club,admittedly, and he also has done well for himself out of the club at little expense from his own pocket. Who bought the Astle Gates?

Should we be impressed by his achievements? Yes, without a doubt, he is a very astute businessman who has put the club on a sound financial footing.

But i think he reacts better to fans showing signs of discontent, and his reactions following crowds becoming restless with him have been positive for our club rather than when we are passive.

He more than likely reads this board to see what fans expectations are. As long as we all keep saying, relax it's only June,relax it's only July,relax it's only August,relax we still have two days of the window left, he probably thinks our expectations are low and a 17th or 18th finishing position would make us all happy.

I think he is probably right. :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 26, 2015, 05:25:03 PM
He didn't call you a liar, he said you were being ridiculous and need to calm down.

I was accused of being premature and told to chill in my earlier thread. But i have been a baggie too long.
Here we are almost July, no buyer, no sponsor, Mulumbu gone, no Real Madrid starlet.
Instead we have James McClean, and are trying to land a player from MK Dons who they got as a free.
You couldn't make it up.

Well done Jezza, fooled us all again.


We have people interested in the club. We have buyers. They haven't signed off on the deal yet. So calm down.

We went two seasons without a sponsor, why do we NEED to have one in July? Are you really worried about us not having some letters and maybe a picture on our shirts? It doesn't matter, so calm down.

Mulumbu's contract ran down and he's left. Didn't feature much last season and not the lynchpin he used to be. Adequate cover in his position, so calm down.

The Real Madrid 'starlet' in question plays in the Spanish equivalent of league one. Some Spanish newspaper mentioned him weeks ago and you're still mad? Not sure why not signing a Real Madrid reserves player causes you so much panic, so calm down.

Again I seriously worry how everything you read becomes gospel. Angry we haven't signed an unknown South American lad and angry an MK Dons player has been mentioned in the same breath as us by someone on twitter. It's 95% garbage, so calm down.

You can make it up, because it is made up.

Where is ANY of what you've said anything to do with Peace?

I never said he called me a liar, i try not to get personal with other Albion fans,unlike some of you on here. He said the post was ridiculous and i merely asked what part of it was not true?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on June 26, 2015, 05:32:33 PM
Reading that started a mad train of thought in my head,
Mr Jianling now owns Sunseeker, maker of luxury yachts,

I can just imagine a fleet of luxury junks moored below halfords lane bridge waiting to waft visiting dignatories on a voyage of discovery around Tipton, The Soho loop and Smethwick !!

They build them in Poole, TP lives in Poole, whoooooo! :-\ ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 26, 2015, 06:22:22 PM
I never said he called me a liar, i try not to get personal with other Albion fans,unlike some of you on here. He said the post was ridiculous and i merely asked what part of it was not true?

It was more the 'tell me which part isn't true' bit that seemed a little odd. He was saying calm down, I took the time to elaborate as to why you needn't get so drunk off over nothing. In my eyes it seemed like you were suggesting he thought you weren't being truthful, so apologies for making you feel that's what my main point was - really wasn't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 26, 2015, 07:04:48 PM
No need to apologise PsalmXX111, we are all baggies and we are all passionate about our club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cads_ap_albion on June 28, 2015, 09:56:35 AM
I know someone at the club and even the people itk in the club know nothing.
The only thing they would say to me about it all was 'money' and that albion have a lot of money. But I suppose it is relative
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 28, 2015, 09:57:02 AM
To all those peace lovers, the man has always put his own interests firsts the mighty pound. How can a club which is an established Prem club still be in the bottom three when it comes to player recruitment and wages
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 28, 2015, 10:03:37 AM
I know someone at the club and even the people itk in the club know nothing.
The only thing they would say to me about it all was 'money' and that albion have a lot of money. But I suppose it is relative

Sounds positive! Hopefully will hear something this week
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on June 28, 2015, 10:31:22 AM
To all those peace lovers, the man has always put his own interests firsts the mighty pound. How can a club which is an established Prem club still be in the bottom three when it comes to player recruitment and wages

It could also be argued that while JP has been, as you suggest, looking after himself and his money, he has also found the time to lead Albion to becoming an established Prem club.

It hasn't happened by accident you know, he must be doing something right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 28, 2015, 10:35:11 AM
To all those peace lovers, the man has always put his own interests firsts the mighty pound. How can a club which is an established Prem club still be in the bottom three when it comes to player recruitment and wages

What you've done there is prove that you don't need to spend money to be an established Premier League club and that Peace is good at what he does. You've proven there is no correlation between needing to spend big to become established. I feel you've struggled to get to grips with your own argument.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 28, 2015, 11:07:33 AM
We are one of the least wealthiest clubs in the division and we have managed to stay in the division for 5 straight years. We spend a bigger proportion of our income on wages than any other club in the division to enable us to compete with teams that have £20m to £30m a year coming in without the need to be underwritten by a wealthy backer (a very mixed blessing). We are not in debt and should the worse happen and we are relegated we would not be teetering on the brink of administration.

Do I love Peace? No because he is not that loveable wealthy businessmen generally aren't but you have to respect that as an achievement. I sincerely hope if there are new owners they can build on that legacy and in five years time we are not looking back at the Peace era as a golden age.

   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on June 28, 2015, 11:51:39 AM
We are one of the least wealthiest clubs in the division and we have managed to stay in the division for 5 straight years. We spend a bigger proportion of our income on wages than any other club in the division to enable us to compete with teams that have £20m to £30m a year coming in without the need to be underwritten by a wealthy backer (a very mixed blessing). We are not in debt and should the worse happen and we are relegated we would not be teetering on the brink of administration.

Do I love Peace? No because he is not that loveable wealthy businessmen generally aren't but you have to respect that as an achievement. I sincerely hope if there are new owners they can build on that legacy and in five years time we are not looking back at the Peace era as a golden age.

That is an excellent post. What we and Peace has achieved on the budgets we have is a tremendous compliment to the powers that be. We have not chased the impossible dream(top6position) but have stabilised ourselves. Yes he has made mistakes  and he has admitted as such ( don't see Mike Ashley doing that) and he has tried to correct them. It will again be another tough season in the Prem but whatever happens we are on a stronger platform than we have been for many years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 28, 2015, 12:06:50 PM
What you've done there is prove that you don't need to spend money to be an established Premier League club and that Peace is good at what he does. You've proven there is no correlation between needing to spend big to become established. I feel you've struggled to get to grips with your own argument.

I think what he is saying is that despite us being an established premiership team, we can go no further under Jeremy.
Yes Jeremy made us a wealthy club, but we all know and so does Jeremy himself, that under his continued leadership we will be having relegation battles every season and one of these season's our luck will run out.
Even little clubs like Bournemouth are spending more money than us, because they know they are in the best league in the world.


We aren't moving on, player/playing wise. Having money is no guarantee the future is going to be rosy.

We should all be grateful for what Mr Peace has made us, but he has not the power to move us that one step further.
I am not talking about winning the league or champions league stuff, but being a good mid table side and having some decent cup runs. At the moment we have neither the quality or depth of squad to do either.

A change of owner is always a big big gamble, and we could just as easily be worse off than better off. But sometimes you have to take a gamble to progress.

Mr Peace has said he will only sell to someone who has the club's interests and traditions a a priority.
If he does that then we can all look back at our tranformation as a success, and acknowledge the remarkable job Mr Peace has done for us.

Should Mr Peace tay and we eventually go back to the chapionhip, then he will poil the great picture he has painted.

I for one am hoping for a new dawn.

Apologies for the grammar, sticky key problem.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on June 28, 2015, 12:17:43 PM
To all those peace lovers, the man has always put his own interests firsts the mighty pound. How can a club which is an established Prem club still be in the bottom three when it comes to player recruitment and wages
And the problem with that?
If you don't like him , buy him out its that simple.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 28, 2015, 12:37:47 PM
And the problem with that?
If you don't like him , buy him out its that simple.
what with my own money not like peace
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 28, 2015, 12:40:20 PM
It could also be argued that while JP has been, as you suggest, looking after himself and his money, he has also found the time to lead Albion to becoming an established Prem club.

It hasn't happened by accident you know, he must be doing something right.
no your history mate peace didn't get us into Prem Paul Thompson did
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ian66 on June 28, 2015, 12:42:43 PM
no your history mate peace didn't get us into Prem Paul Thompson did
Chipperfan said established.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 28, 2015, 12:48:40 PM
Chipperfan said established.
took us along time to become established as a relegation candidate ever season under your friend.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on June 28, 2015, 12:49:42 PM
no your history mate peace didn't get us into Prem Paul Thompson did

Know your grammar mate. As Ian said, I didn't say JP led us to the Prem, I said he had led us to being established.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ian66 on June 28, 2015, 12:59:46 PM
took us along time to become established as a relegation candidate ever season under your friend.
Whether it took a long time or not, we are where we are, about to start our 6th consecutive season in the top flight.

That's with JP as chairman, you can't give credit to Paul Thompson for that his been gone 14 years!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on June 28, 2015, 01:01:16 PM
I think what he is saying is that despite us being an established premiership team, we can go no further under Jeremy.
Yes Jeremy made us a wealthy club, but we all know and so does Jeremy himself, that under his continued leadership we will be having relegation battles every season and one of these season's our luck will run out.
Even little clubs like Bournemouth are spending more money than us, because they know they are in the best league in the world.


We aren't moving on, player/playing wise. Having money is no guarantee the future is going to be rosy.

We should all be grateful for what Mr Peace has made us, but he has not the power to move us that one step further.
I am not talking about winning the league or champions league stuff, but being a good mid table side and having some decent cup runs. At the moment we have neither the quality or depth of squad to do either.

A change of owner is always a big big gamble, and we could just as easily be worse off than better off. But sometimes you have to take a gamble to progress.

Mr Peace has said he will only sell to someone who has the club's interests and traditions a a priority.
If he does that then we can all look back at our tranformation as a success, and acknowledge the remarkable job Mr Peace has done for us.

Should Mr Peace tay and we eventually go back to the chapionhip, then he will poil the great picture he has painted.

I for one am hoping for a new dawn.

Apologies for the grammar, sticky key problem.

Well said , an excellent post .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 28, 2015, 01:01:20 PM
Know your grammar mate. As Ian said, I didn't say JP led us to the Prem, I said he had led us to being established.
Your mate told us when he took us over that we would be a top ten team with in five years
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 28, 2015, 01:06:25 PM
Where's this relegation candidate rubbish come from. Unless people mean we're on of 13 teams that could go down we've only been in real danger one of the five seasons. We're a solid midtable club now and without looking I imagine we're 7th or 8th favourites for the drop. This is as good as it gets. Accept it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ian66 on June 28, 2015, 01:11:35 PM
Where's this relegation candidate rubbish come from. Unless people mean we're on of 13 teams that could go down we've only been in real danger one of the five seasons. We're a solid midtable club now and without looking I imagine we're 7th or 8th favourites for the drop. This is as good as it gets. Accept it.
I agree, we are in a far healthier position than what we were all them years ago when we first got promoted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on June 28, 2015, 01:25:27 PM
no your history mate peace didn't get us into Prem Paul Thompson did
"No" your spelling?
Couldn't care less who's money he used or wether he is making himself a tidy profit, how many times does anybody phone up Richard Branson and tell him that they don't agree with his business principles?
Fact is that Peace has done very well by the club and made himself some money on the process , I think you should all be grateful but that is , of course, just my opinion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 28, 2015, 01:26:50 PM
We would have gone down last season if we had kept Irvine, another Peace appointment. It took fan pressure to get rid of Irvine and Downing and Keily.
We were bloody lucky to stay up last season, and without TP we would have gone.
Yes Mr Peace got  Pulis but why oh why did he have Irvine in the first place? What qualifications drew him to him?
We can't keep riding our luck like this.

Mr Peace is great at balancing the books, but has too much say in team matters of which he knows little. Dan Ashworth helped him  a great deal in that respect, but he is long gone.

Jeff Astle said in his book, Striker, that a football chairman should be like children, seen, but never heard, i agree.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on June 28, 2015, 01:28:04 PM
Your mate told us when he took us over that we would be a top ten team with in five years

Is that you admitting you were wrong about what I said? You know, changing the subject.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 28, 2015, 01:32:36 PM
"No" your spelling?
Couldn't care less who's money he used or wether he is making himself a tidy profit, how many times does anybody phone up Richard Branson and tell him that they don't agree with his business principles?
Fact is that Peace has done very well by the club and made himself some money on the process , I think you should all be grateful but that is , of course, just my opinion.
you have got one fact right Peace has done bloody well out of this club as compering him to Branson you let yourself down
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 28, 2015, 01:37:19 PM
Is that you admitting you were wrong about what I said? You know, changing the subject.
your great friends words not mine TOP TEN TEAM IN FIVE YEARS
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on June 28, 2015, 01:59:14 PM
We would have gone down last season if we had kept Irvine, another Peace appointment. It took fan pressure to get rid of Irvine and Downing and Keily.
We were bloody lucky to stay up last season, and without TP we would have gone.
Yes Mr Peace got  Pulis but why oh why did he have Irvine in the first place? What qualifications drew him to him?
We can't keep riding our luck like this.

Mr Peace is great at balancing the books, but has too much say in team matters of which he knows little. Dan Ashworth helped him  a great deal in that respect, but he is long gone.

Jeff Astle said in his book, Striker, that a football chairman should be like children, seen, but never heard, i agree.
Couple of points.
1. We can only speculate whether we would have gone down under Irvine.
2. Point 1 is irrelevant because to not allow that to be in question Irvine was sacked and replaced by Pulis.

Fan pressure?  You're having a laugh.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 28, 2015, 02:14:43 PM
your great friends words not mine TOP TEN TEAM IN FIVE YEARS

Well if his friend said it that must prove you right that JP is a no good chairman!!

JP has been brilliant for us and that's provable by where we are now as a club compared to what we were as a club 10-12 years ago
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 28, 2015, 02:45:59 PM
I'd like to investment to get rid of that stupid metal either side of the east stand and to put a new tear on the halfords; that aside can't see a new owner bringing much of an upside.  What we should be looking to is to lower the match-day ticket prices (not the season tickets which are fine) to sell the ground out and to expand the fan base. We need to grow the club to a 30k to 35k base not the current 25k. Makes no sense at the moment that we sell out in category c games and have gaps when the big clubs come to town. In the long term the club needs to be self-sufficient; we cannot expect a billionaire to throw money in for the sake of it and the rules don't allow it. Interesting couple of months anyway with the takeover rumours and transfer market. Peace's biggest responsibility is not to sell us off to a mercenary for his own gain.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 28, 2015, 02:53:21 PM
your great friends words not mine TOP TEN TEAM IN FIVE YEARS

And if I'm not mistaken under JP were we not a top 10 side?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 28, 2015, 03:00:24 PM
Peace has said he won't sell us off unless it is for the good of the club.

We will have to trust him on that one. But this club does need an owner with more financial clout or a big investor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 28, 2015, 03:02:44 PM
Peace HAS done well for us. Past tense. You can't live in the past in football, ask the wolves fans. The game is about now, and right now Mr Peace hasn't got the know how or financial clout to see us progress where it really matters...on the pitch.
I have never gone to the Hawthorns to have a look at the books.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 28, 2015, 03:42:39 PM
Your mate told us when he took us over that we would be a top ten team with in five years

Where or when has he ever said that?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 28, 2015, 04:14:09 PM
I think he made comments along those lines when he took over Liam, and also said he would expand the Hawthorns. He has actually shrunk it. I have been on when the place was heaving.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on June 28, 2015, 04:36:38 PM
your great friends words not mine TOP TEN TEAM IN FIVE YEARS

You haven't answered my question, just tried to change the subject. I'll just assume you know I'm correct.

And why are you shouting Paulo?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 28, 2015, 05:28:25 PM
What has itk know people said? Are we likely to be told anything this week.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 28, 2015, 05:48:55 PM
I'm not sure what people are expecting, we will always be one of 13 clubs that could get relegated. First job is always 40pts and then everything else is a bonus depending on form / injuries. No new owner can change that. You can finish 10th one year and 17th the next. I reckon Stoke are doing to drop like a stone this season as they forgotten how to keep clean sheets and lost Moses. Look at Evertons struggle last season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on June 28, 2015, 05:57:30 PM
What has itk know people said? Are we likely to be told anything this week.

Nobody seems to know anything.

I can't see anything happening anytime soon. There will probably be an update on the website next week along the lines of 'There just wasn't end enough time to conclude the deal and we need to ensure plans for next season aren't disrupted'.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 28, 2015, 07:01:25 PM
The fact that some people are blindly oblivious to the things Peace has done at this club gives me very little hope for whoever replaces him.

The 'he never spends his own money' argument is the most economically and logically void thing I've ever heard. To criticise a Chairman for not using their own money for club related matters is hilariously ignorant of how businesses work. We aren't a start-up company for goodness sake.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 28, 2015, 07:19:45 PM
The fact that some people are blindly oblivious to the things Peace has done at this club gives me very little hope for whoever replaces him.

The 'he never spends his own money' argument is the most economically and logically void thing I've ever heard. To criticise a Chairman for not using their own money for club related matters is hilariously ignorant of how businesses work. We aren't a start-up company for goodness sake.
But you do normally pay for a non-startup business you acquire... Unless you behave like a venture capitalist.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on June 28, 2015, 07:29:07 PM
After all the talking and the optimism / wariness about a potential buyer I hope it all doesn't just fizzle out next week.

I agree that Peace has done a good job overall for us, whilst making glaring mistakes that almost spelt disaster last season and could have this. It is time for a change.

At the moment it just seems like nothing is happening or going our way, transfer wise we seem to be missing the boat and just not cutting it,  Boaz leaving would be a backward step for us.

We just seem to be spluttering along at the moment, but that could all change I suppose with a marquee signing and a Chinese owner, but im not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 28, 2015, 08:58:00 PM
But you do normally pay for a non-startup business you acquire... Unless you behave like a venture capitalist.

He's a businessman who has acquired the club legally, just as anyone else purchases a company, regardless of where the funds came from. Once they've acquired a business they use revenue produced by the company to further the business. Some chairmen have the money to buy a club outright using money they've made in previous businesses. How he does personal business, providing it's legal is of absolutely no relevance to the club and it's fans. He's taken a large wage but there are several tens of millions more brought into the club than before he started, and that money will stay in the club when he sells it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on June 28, 2015, 09:10:58 PM
Could be worse it could be Trev the shed :o ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: JoRo on June 28, 2015, 09:22:26 PM
Your mate told us when he took us over that we would be a top ten team with in five years

What makes him Chipperfan's "mate? Or his "great friend" for that matter? Plus, having spent time looking online, I cannot see where he promised to make us a top ten side within five years- care to share?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 28, 2015, 09:35:57 PM
I made a similar post about 1-2 weeks ago, basically I feel that it's getting to the point where it's becoming an issue, and with every day that passes closer to the new season, I think this 'deal' is becoming more negative for all involved.

It's now 6 weeks to the starting fixture, I think it's naive at this point to say that it's not going to affect stuff like transfers/stability at this moment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 28, 2015, 09:38:01 PM
http://m.scmp.com/business/companies/article/1826134/wanda-group-chairman-wang-jianlin-plans-buy-more-sports-assets

Not that he's interested in albion, just stirring the pot  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 28, 2015, 10:36:49 PM
Seeing that and he plans to buy three more sports clubs, i'm not so sure i would want him.

We coud become just a nursery club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on June 29, 2015, 05:57:17 AM
What's the gut feeling on whether a decision one way or the other will definitely be made this week? I think if it is any longer it will interfere with pre-season and possibly irk Pulis.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 29, 2015, 07:08:44 AM
What's the gut feeling on whether a decision one way or the other will definitely be made this week? I think if it is any longer it will interfere with pre-season and possibly irk Pulis.

I think in the end nothings going to happen. I just feel if things were close, club take ages to announce something. We would have heard if it's happening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 29, 2015, 07:44:51 AM
What's the gut feeling on whether a decision one way or the other will definitely be made this week? I think if it is any longer it will interfere with pre-season and possibly irk Pulis.

In the absence of any concrete news we are just guessing. We know that 3 possible buyers undertook due diligence which given that this would involve incurring significant costs on professional fees there is serious intent on the part of the potential bidders.

The due diligence process was completed at the beginning of this month if at that stage none of the bidders were interested we get an announcement to the effect that Peace is not selling. Obviously we know that discussions are on going with at least one of the potential buyers but equally I believe all of them had signed up to buying the club on a business as usual basis, i.e. none of them were proposing making sweeping changes to the way the club is run nor the personnel involved.

Plainly there are plans in place for this window given that we have been actively pursuing Ba and that would be the most expensive signing we would be making regardless of any change in ownership I think it is fair to say the ownership issue is not presenting any practical issues with regard to the day to day operations at the club.

In short there is no reason for Pulis to be irked and frankly the future ownership of the club is far more important than the Head Coach being irked even to the point of flouncing out as he did at Palace. That said I don't believe it will drag on much longer there must come a point where a final offer is made and it is accepted or rejected.       
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 29, 2015, 07:53:48 AM
Let's face it, unless the person buying the club has bought a club before, don't expect some miraculous changes around the club next season anyway. If buyers are doing due diligence (yes I know it's a common business practice and not doing so would be stupid) then they certainly don't have the funds to turn us into Manchester City. Someone with billions to spend (the Chinese guy being touted around for example) could effectively skim our accounts if he's got money to burn.

I'll put it out there that anyone excited we'll be performing expensive miracles needs to check that at the door before the season starts.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on June 29, 2015, 08:26:39 AM
Let's face it, unless the person buying the club has bought a club before, don't expect some miraculous changes around the club next season anyway. If buyers are doing due diligence (yes I know it's a common business practice and not doing so would be stupid) then they certainly don't have the funds to turn us into Manchester City. Someone with billions to spend (the Chinese guy being touted around for example) could effectively skim our accounts if he's got money to burn.

I'll put it out there that anyone excited we'll be performing expensive miracles needs to check that at the door before the season starts.

i'm sorry to disagree but billionaires didn't make their money by not having good business acumen and sense, they certainly don't burn their money. If that were the case Manchester City and Chelsea would out bid any other club in the world (Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG any number of Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese Clubs  etc.) to buy ever player they want irrespective of ever playing them :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 29, 2015, 10:33:39 AM
How he does personal business, providing it's legal is of absolutely no relevance to the club and it's fans.

Try telling that to the fans who's shares Peace undervalued and bought.  Try telling Blackburn and Wolves fans there was nothing special about Walker and Hayward.  Of course the business strategies of chairmen are relevant to both the club and fans.

I'm not saying Peace has done anything legally wrong, but he saw an opportunity to make money out of West Brom and boy has he taken it.  I believe that our relative success is a side effect of Peace maximising the value of his asset.

One other question in relation to this sale.  At some point during the break-up and restructuring of the various WBA companies I seem to remember being told the ground, and other adjacent properties being put in a separate company from the football club, whilst a further company was formed to hold the various city centre (and other) residential properties that the club had bought (is the London office rented?).  Anyone know the truth of this, and whether all off the various companies are packaged up in this sale?  (Or will JP still have a property portfolio in his back pocket?)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on June 29, 2015, 12:05:38 PM
Try telling that to the fans who's shares Peace undervalued and bought.  Try telling Blackburn and Wolves fans there was nothing special about Walker and Hayward.  Of course the business strategies of chairmen are relevant to both the club and fans.

I'm not saying Peace has done anything legally wrong, but he saw an opportunity to make money out of West Brom and boy has he taken it.  I believe that our relative success is a side effect of Peace maximising the value of his asset.

One other question in relation to this sale.  At some point during the break-up and restructuring of the various WBA companies I seem to remember being told the ground, and other adjacent properties being put in a separate company from the football club, whilst a further company was formed to hold the various city centre (and other) residential properties that the club had bought (is the London office rented?).  Anyone know the truth of this, and whether all off the various companies are packaged up in this sale?  (Or will JP still have a property portfolio in his back pocket?)

Smacks of envy to me, practically everyone if they had the opportunity would take the risk Peace took, how did Abramovich (ex Communist) get his money, even Tony Blair (ex socialist) took his opportunity to make money.

You can bet that Peace, even if he takes every opportunity to maximise his return, will have done everything within the law.

Our club is in a better position now than it was 10 or 12 years ago, infrastructure, academy, stands, pitch, facilities, team absolutely everything has improved

The point is Peace took a RISK, it may have gone belly up like Leeds, Portsmouth etc.

Welcome to the real world, not one of conjecture and cyniscm
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 29, 2015, 12:11:16 PM
Try telling that to the fans who's shares Peace undervalued and bought.  Try telling Blackburn and Wolves fans there was nothing special about Walker and Hayward.  Of course the business strategies of chairmen are relevant to both the club and fans.

I'm not saying Peace has done anything legally wrong, but he saw an opportunity to make money out of West Brom and boy has he taken it.  I believe that our relative success is a side effect of Peace maximising the value of his asset.

One other question in relation to this sale.  At some point during the break-up and restructuring of the various WBA companies I seem to remember being told the ground, and other adjacent properties being put in a separate company from the football club, whilst a further company was formed to hold the various city centre (and other) residential properties that the club had bought (is the London office rented?).  Anyone know the truth of this, and whether all off the various companies are packaged up in this sale?  (Or will JP still have a property portfolio in his back pocket?)

The ground and the investment property are referenced in the latest club report and accounts so are very much part of the club's assets. Walker and Hayward might have been special but neither of their families wanted to continue to subsidise their respective clubs and both left them overly dependent on the golden tit. The sugar daddy model is pretty much dead and fans had better get used to the idea.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 29, 2015, 12:54:21 PM
The point is Peace took a RISK, it may have gone belly up like Leeds, Portsmouth etc.
What risk has he taken? As I understand it, he's never invested any of his own personal money in the club since he became Chairman (I'm not sure what happened when he first became a director).

Welcome to the real world, not one of conjecture and cyniscm
I'm in the real world of having had my Albion shares compulsorily purchased for a relative pittance. People have every right to be cynical should they feel that way.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on June 29, 2015, 05:04:56 PM
Our club is in a respective, solid position and a damn site better then it was 12 months ago.
There where some horrendous mistakes made in recent times, but we have come through remarkably unscathed, and held on to our PL Status relatively easily this year.
With the kit and the new sponsor being announced on Wednesday and no mention of a new owner at the moment my guess is that Mr P will be around for another season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on June 29, 2015, 05:13:33 PM
People forgot what it was like under Trev the Shed or Tony Hale.

I still remeber being near the directors box at Crewe and managing to get a word with Tony Hale and I asked him are we going to spend the money on players and he said yes - when all the time we had no money and had to sell Kilbane to appease the bank manager.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 29, 2015, 05:29:35 PM
The ground and the investment property are referenced in the latest club report and accounts so are very much part of the club's assets.

Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 29, 2015, 05:38:56 PM
People forgot what it was like under Trev the Shed or Tony Hale.

I still remeber being near the directors box at Crewe and managing to get a word with Tony Hale and I asked him are we going to spend the money on players and he said yes - when all the time we had no money and had to sell Kilbane to appease the bank manager.

We don't forget at all, but we also remember the traditions and history of this club before those days.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 29, 2015, 05:43:47 PM
Judging from most responses it sounds like we should celebrate a chairman who never invested his own money (or not for long anyhow) has taken in the region of £10m in salary and more besides in various share issues and may now walk away with over £100m from the sale.

I wonder what could have been achieved with JP's financial acumen if his heart was in it rather than just his wallet?

Smacks of envy to me, practically everyone if they had the opportunity would take the risk Peace took,

The only reason I'm envious is because if I was in his position I would be able to do something special for West Bromwich Albion FC  rather than take all that money to keep me warm in Barbados.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 29, 2015, 05:48:56 PM
What's everyone's feeling about the take over then? Gut feeling do we think we will be taken over?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on June 29, 2015, 05:51:07 PM
What risk has he taken? As I understand it, he's never invested any of his own personal money in the club since he became Chairman (I'm not sure what happened when he first became a director).
I'm in the real world of having had my Albion shares compulsorily purchased for a relative pittance. People have every right to be cynical should they feel that way.

So you didn't like the world of commerce where you buy and sell shares to make a profit, sometimes you take a loss,  the shares were virtually worthless before Peace took over, you couldn't sell them for more than you bought them. A pittance compared with what you thought they were worth, a share is only worth what someone is willing to pay. If you bought the shares for altruistic reasons, weren't they issued in 1994 to help raise money for the club when they were in dire straights then you can't complain. I believe the shares were £500 and £3000 and came with 10 year rights (correct me if I'm wrong)

Carrying the feeling of disappointment for ever will not allow you to see just how far our club has come

Or would you rather have had the previous chairman who wanted his money back and so we sold Kilban, time to put it behind you and really support the Baggies through thick and thin like we all do

Being such an entrepreneur, with your shares why didn't you put a consortium together to do what Peace has done, afterall you say he only invested a small amount - (can't remember whether it was £250k or £500k)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on June 29, 2015, 05:58:17 PM
imagine wanting to make some money from a buisness you owned? this stuff about peaces wages doesnt make ANY sense, how many of you would be prepared to work for free?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 29, 2015, 06:20:59 PM
I fail to see what is wrong with a business man entering a business, working his way up, contributing to it's steady success, completely restructuring it, keeping it debt free and then, when he's established and stablised the company, moving on.

I don't know a Mr Peace, I judge him on his work. I have shares in the club still, I still attend shareholder meetings and I'm yet to see where he's done anything wrong.

Without being a majority shareholder he can't sell us, so anyone who wants him gone can't use 'he stole our shares' as something to lambast him for. You look at the majority of businesses worldwide you'll find exactly the same story with regularity. If he'd come in, done nothing and left then by all means you can criticise. But he hasn't. I fail to see any legal, moral or economic reason to think he's done wrong.

We are a business not a recreational activity for someone to play with. Thinking anyone buys a football club to see the club do well and not for the financial game is beyond naive. Abramovic and the Sheik didn't support their respective teams and only care about the team doing well as doing so makes money. And don't throw 'we are a football club with history, etc.' at me. If we aren't a business explain how we make tens of millions a year.

At the end of the day I pose one question to anyone who still criticises JP:

Why does JP, using legal means, making money from the sale of our club, offend you so much? The revenue generated by the club is still in the club, all he's doing is selling the business behind the club to someone else. Legally buying and selling assets of any scale or level is how the world works. The fact he does it legally is better than a lot of large businesses I bet none of you have any problems with.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 29, 2015, 07:17:27 PM
At the end of the day I pose one question to anyone who still criticises JP:

Why does JP, using legal means, making money from the sale of our club, offend you so much? The revenue generated by the club is still in the club, all he's doing is selling the business behind the club to someone else. Legally buying and selling assets of any scale or level is how the world works. The fact he does it legally is better than a lot of large businesses I bet none of you have any problems with.

I've had to set aside my fairly entrenched views on Peace.  We are soon to start our sixth consecutive season in the PL.  I think almost everything about the club has improved significantly during his tenure.  I doubt whether it would be possible to find a shorter or smoother ride to where we are today without that sugar daddy (or even with it - see wulfs).  I, kind of, feel proud when I see WBA (nil debt) 3 - 0 (£1bn debt) Chelsea...

I reserve my criticism of Peace for areas such as fan interaction, financial openness and the fact that someone who is a 'fan' can plan to benefit to the tune of £150m after recovering his initial investment many years ago.  As a fan I don't think I could just take all the money and retire to Barbados.  I'd want to find a way to pay my dues and share the benefit.  Maybe I'm weird?  I like £s, but I love West Brom.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on June 29, 2015, 07:27:48 PM
I've had to set aside my fairly entrenched views on Peace.  We are soon to start our sixth consecutive season in the PL.  I think almost everything about the club has improved significantly during his tenure.  I doubt whether it would be possible to find a shorter or smoother ride to where we are today without that sugar daddy (or even with it - see wulfs).  I, kind of, feel proud when I see WBA (nil debt) 3 - 0 (£1bn debt) Chelsea...

I reserve my criticism of Peace for areas such as fan interaction, financial openness and the fact that someone who is a 'fan' can plan to benefit to the tune of £150m after recovering his initial investment many years ago.  As a fan I don't think I could just take all the money and retire to Barbados.  I'd want to find a way to pay my dues and share the benefit.  Maybe I'm weird?  I like £s, but I love West Brom.

Sadly that's why you'll never become a multimillionaire  ;D Just joking I find that admirable
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 29, 2015, 07:31:33 PM
I'll be glad when we get an answer either way to be honest - a boring saga which will only prove to be more than a hindrance in my opinion.

Wasn't the deadline at the end of June?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 29, 2015, 07:36:31 PM
I'll be glad when we get an answer either way to be honest - a boring saga which will only prove to be more than a hindrance in my opinion.

Wasn't the deadline at the end of June?

Apparently the end of June, I believe we may here a result on Wednesday perhaps with the new home kit or something
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 29, 2015, 07:38:45 PM
Apparently the end of June, I believe we may here a result on Wednesday perhaps with the new home kit or something

I would hope so - regardless of what the outcome is.

You don't want to head into the meat of your pre-season preparations with a takeover looming in the background.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on June 29, 2015, 07:39:54 PM
I would hope so - regardless of what the outcome is.

You don't want to head into the meat of your pre-season preparations with a takeover looming in the background.

Can't see peace wanting that either , I have a feeling we have been took over , just a gut feeling personally
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on June 29, 2015, 07:43:37 PM
Should be sometime this week Mail's article from awhile back said early july at the latest if I remember Correctly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cuckfield1704 on June 29, 2015, 07:56:44 PM
Apparently the end of June, I believe we may here a result on Wednesday perhaps with the new home kit or something

I will be very surprised if there is a deal and I do not really want one with any of the parties I have seen mentioned.
Also I'm with those on here asking just why should JP, who has already been paid many millions in salary, walk away with another £100m+  for selling our club.
It is a complete clash of negotiating styles and cultures.  Peace.......stubborn, has a price and will not sell unless he gets it and will want to 'see the money'. Those from the other side of the world start by offering next to nothing and work slowly, very slowly, upwards and rarely put the cash upfront.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on June 29, 2015, 07:57:11 PM
The players are back in for pre season training properly on Wednesday I think (despite the pre season schedule on the website saying they were back today) so I'd have thought there might be an update around about then as it's essentially the beginning of the new campaign.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on June 29, 2015, 08:12:35 PM
The players are back in for pre season training properly on Wednesday I think (despite the pre season schedule on the website saying they were back today) so I'd have thought there might be an update around about then as it's essentially the beginning of the new campaign.
Good point.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on June 29, 2015, 08:25:18 PM
Unless the whole model of the club and of modern football ownership changed, as fans we will be nothing more than very, loyal committed customers and that's the reality. Provided the club is in good shape (it is) and were relatively successful on the pitch (we are for a club of our size), the owner deserves credit.

 The clubs chance to be run as a mutual/ cooperative by fans slipped away and it's clear we have been more successful with one corporate mind running the club in the past ten years compared tot the ten years before when shareholders were wetting about with the clubs direction. Before Peace, there was simply too much in fighting and conflict within the club for it to have a clear long term strategy.

Whatever the outcome of the takeover talks, I hope we have someone running the club who is committed to a long term vision and not a Randy Lerner style 'kid in a sweet shop' for a couple of years. My personal view is Peace has run the club excellently and has also been a little fortunate to take it over at a time when the premier league brand went through the roof financially. I also believe his time is up and we need a fresh person at the top with new ideas and energy.

Either way, we're in good long term shape ( compare us to Wolves, Villa or Blues not to mention a host of other clubs such as Leeds, Bolton etc....who were above us 10 years ago), we have one of the best pound for pound managers in the country a solid set up (youth team, ground etc) and a squad which has a decent spine to add to.

I hope we finally shake of the inferiority complex web had for 20 years and push on like Suthampton and Swansea have. I think we will with a new owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 29, 2015, 08:57:35 PM
Should be sometime this week Mail's article from awhile back said early july at the latest if I remember Correctly

What the mail know about the Albion could be written on a postage stamp.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on June 29, 2015, 09:10:59 PM
What the mail know about the Albion could be written on a postage stamp.

That's true  ;) :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 29, 2015, 09:19:59 PM
I've had to set aside my fairly entrenched views on Peace.  We are soon to start our sixth consecutive season in the PL.  I think almost everything about the club has improved significantly during his tenure.  I doubt whether it would be possible to find a shorter or smoother ride to where we are today without that sugar daddy (or even with it - see wulfs).  I, kind of, feel proud when I see WBA (nil debt) 3 - 0 (£1bn debt) Chelsea...

I reserve my criticism of Peace for areas such as fan interaction, financial openness and the fact that someone who is a 'fan' can plan to benefit to the tune of £150m after recovering his initial investment many years ago.  As a fan I don't think I could just take all the money and retire to Barbados.  I'd want to find a way to pay my dues and share the benefit.  Maybe I'm weird?  I like £s, but I love West Brom.

Really valid views appreciate the mature, reasoned response to that question. And I agree to a degree; he's done well at the helm and taken us to a point where we are established in a league we had no chance of reaching without his work. And as much as he's an Albion fan but he's a business man. Maybe he sees his parting gift as passing us on to safe, rich hands eh? As much as your personal views on Peace are justified, his actions aren't to the detriment of the club. He's making money off someone else buying us - all revenue made by the club stays with the club. And as much as a rumoured £10m in salary over 15 years seems a lot, we spend over 5 times that per season on staff and make 7 times that per year in revenue. It's a drop in the ocean. How many of us would pay a manager £1m to keep us up each year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Yamaka on June 29, 2015, 09:35:11 PM
The most sense I have heard on this topic. Whilst I am not persuaded by the argument that staying within the law makes everything ok we  have to acknowledge work done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on June 30, 2015, 03:25:37 AM
Some fans are so naive when it's shocking.

They see JP as this messiah who has led us to the promised land.

The facts are different.

We had a good chairman in paul thompson who sanctioned the building of the east stand.

Peace joined the board with mike o'leary. Both claiming they were life long baggies.

Then using divide and rule tactics he ousted thompson by pitting him against god megson.

Then systematically, along with sister, he embarked on various share purcahse scheme all designed to squeeze out the small shareholder.

In his long tenure he's improved the ground by giving the eest stand £4m lick of paint.

The east stand corners are ripe for development, but no he says our fanbase cannot grow because we surrounded by other clubs.

He tried staying up the cheap way until he realised that he would have to pay prem wages to stay in it.

Jp cares about cash not the Albion.

Ever met anyone who ever sat next to him in life long following of our great club?

I haven't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 30, 2015, 08:23:28 AM
He's making money off someone else buying us - all revenue made by the club stays with the club.
That isn't strictly true though. The club's money has been used for everything that he's done as Chairman, either directly or by loans taken out by the club and repaid by the club. As I understand it, that includes the share purchases. However, once he sells his shares, the money he gets for them comes to him personally and doesn't stay within the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Yamaka on June 30, 2015, 08:45:37 AM
It's not called the greed league for nothing. The problem I have is why we seem happy when players are mercenary and yet have an issue with a guy who has invested a good part of himself into the club over a few years now and will be leaving it in better shape than when he started. The amount of money swilling around is obscene to me personally but that is a separate issue. Money attracts a certain kind of person, to expect otherwise is naive. We must hope that whoever comes in next has at least the same regards for the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 30, 2015, 08:50:28 AM
That isn't strictly true though. The club's money has been used for everything that he's done as Chairman, either directly or by loans taken out by the club and repaid by the club. As I understand it, that includes the share purchases. However, once he sells his shares, the money he gets for them comes to him personally and doesn't stay within the club.

I'm referring to revenue by the club through prize money, gate receipts, sponsorship, etc. 75% of that revenue currently goes on player wages, and 25% on everything else the club does. Whoever buys the club is buying the potential to produce revenue and current assets.

By speculated figures (I'll use the worst figures as I'm sure I'll be criticised for not) Peace picked up £1.19m last year before tax. I'll point out that 3 years ago Levy at Spurs paid himself £2.2m, David Gill at United was paid £2.6m and Niall Quinn was paid £2.4m after resigning from a director position at Sunderland. Based on latest accounts 1.5% of our YEARLY revenue goes to JP compared to 75% to the players.

So there's clear evidence that he has enough money to buy the shares outright but unless you know the in's and out's of how our holding groups work, you can't make claims that he's not bought his shares outright. Either way he's done everything legally or he'd have been arrested. There's less senior directors at other clubs making much more money than Peace too. Don't hate the player hate the game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 30, 2015, 09:03:51 AM
It's not called the greed league for nothing. The problem I have is why we seem happy when players are mercenary and yet have an issue with a guy who has invested a good part of himself into the club over a few years now and will be leaving it in better shape than when he started. The amount of money swilling around is obscene to me personally but that is a separate issue. Money attracts a certain kind of person, to expect otherwise is naive. We must hope that whoever comes in next has at least the same regards for the club.

That's a good point.

Modern football!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 30, 2015, 09:08:30 AM
Some fans are so naive when it's shocking.

They see JP as this messiah who has led us to the promised land.

The facts are different.

We had a good chairman in paul thompson who sanctioned the building of the east stand.

Peace joined the board with mike o'leary. Both claiming they were life long baggies.

Then using divide and rule tactics he ousted thompson by pitting him against god megson.

Then systematically, along with sister, he embarked on various share purcahse scheme all designed to squeeze out the small shareholder.

In his long tenure he's improved the ground by giving the eest stand £4m lick of paint.

The east stand corners are ripe for development, but no he says our fanbase cannot grow because we surrounded by other clubs.

He tried staying up the cheap way until he realised that he would have to pay prem wages to stay in it.

Jp cares about cash not the Albion.

Ever met anyone who ever sat next to him in life long following of our great club?

I haven't.

What a ridiculous statement....I bet ive never sat next to you does that mean you are not an Albion fan?

And unless you can prove your facts with cold hard evidence then its your opinion or something you have been told by someone else which again is secondary news
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 30, 2015, 09:24:49 AM
What a ridiculous statement....I bet ive never sat next to you does that mean you are not an Albion fan?

And unless you can prove your facts with cold hard evidence then its your opinion or something you have been told by someone else which again is secondary news
Are you on JPs wage bill, just because someone has a different opinion of your mate dosnt mean their statement is wrong
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on June 30, 2015, 09:44:22 AM
No actually I agree with Tommy.

What's it matter if Peace has attended 1 or 10000000 games before owning the club?

People are having a massive laugh if they think Peace isn't going to try and make himself some wonger from the potential sale but it is a fact that under his chairmanship we've established ourselves in the Premiership, which prior to him was a distant dream.

Think some people are still carrying knives for him from a few years back and are desperate for something bad to happen to the club so they can be proved right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on June 30, 2015, 09:57:12 AM
JP runs a successful business, like all people who do that, he will reward himself handsomely, its the same in businesses all over the world.

West Bromwich Albion are a business, for us fans on matchday its entertainment (though not all the time!) but during the week it operates like any other business.

JP may be paying himself more than he was a few years back, i dont know but even if he is, the business is doing better than it was a few years back, its getting richer. JP isnt creaming all the profits and letting other parts of the club go to pot, we are paying bigger transfer fees, wages, got a nice ground, good academy, training centre, etc so all those are being improved as part of the business doing better.

Another chairman may have done a better job than JP, he has made mistakes but there isnt a single person in life or in business who hasnt! Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i have been going for nearly 30 years and even upto 15 or so years ago i never would of dreamed we would be in the position we are now, sadly due to football being the way it is we probably cant progress that much further without major investment but JP to me is the best chairman we have had in my lifetime by a million miles.

Thats not a love in with JP, its just a personal view but i know the West Bromwich Albion as a club today is a lot better than the one i started watching in 86/87. Its okay saying so and so would of done better, maybe they would but the fact remains JP was in charge of a club that has gone from championship relegation contenders to a established premiership club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 30, 2015, 10:11:19 AM
Are you on JPs wage bill, just because someone has a different opinion of your mate dosnt mean their statement is wrong

Sorry to disagree Paul but that IS a ridiculous statement.
1. Last 10yrs? unless you are a Director or VIP why would anyone be sat next to JP??
2. Prior to last 10 year, who would know or care if they were sat next to him?

Why people cannot acknowledge that we have the best VALUE chairman in the league (apart from Swansea maybe) is mind boggling to me.

Results, Infrastructure, Financial stability, Manager, all are in top class order, yes he has made mistakes, but he acknowledges that unless most of the megalomaniacs in modern football.

Long live JP, I really hope that if he sells he can be retained in a non-exec role, very likely on lots of shekels!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on June 30, 2015, 10:12:32 AM
I dont mind Mr Peace making a it of Wonga on the sale but how much profit is enough for him on his original investment?
Just how much profit does he need 5,10,20.40 million quid? He has had a good few years of big wages out of the club and at times has deserved what he took, but if he really had the interests of the club in mind he would go for the right owner to bring investment in infrastructure and playing staff.
This is why he is not a supporter like the rest of us. Like all people with money playing their own real game of monopoly they can never be satisfied and greed takes over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 30, 2015, 10:36:29 AM
I think Mr Peace is seen either as a god or a devil, and will probably always be seen that way long after he's gone.

I must say the crush some poster's seem to have on him on here is a bit unnerving.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 30, 2015, 10:39:01 AM
I think Mr Peace is seen either as a god or a devil, and will probably always be seen that way long after he's gone.

I must say the crush some poster's seem to have on him on here is a bit unnerving.  ;)

Look at the alternatives and Dad (oops) is far and away the best option.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on June 30, 2015, 10:42:34 AM
I dont mind Mr Peace making a it of Wonga on the sale but how much profit is enough for him on his original investment?
Just how much profit does he need 5,10,20.40 million quid? He has had a good few years of big wages out of the club and at times has deserved what he took, but if he really had the interests of the club in mind he would go for the right owner to bring investment in infrastructure and playing staff.
This is why he is not a supporter like the rest of us. Like all people with money playing their own real game of monopoly they can never be satisfied and greed takes over.

So what, people invest in high risk, high yield speculative shares like gold mining, oil exploration, start ups, microsoft, penny shares, they strike it lucky and get 1000 times more back than they invested.

How do you know Peace is not looking for the right owner - he has stated that he is?
What do you mean like the rest of us? Are you saying if you have some money you are not allowed to be a supporter like the rest of us.

I just can't believe how small minded and jealous of earned wealth some of our supporters are. No wonder the voters in Birmingham, and the Black Country vote the way they do. Life must be a burden with chips on both shoulders :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 30, 2015, 10:46:06 AM
I dont mind Mr Peace making a it of Wonga on the sale but how much profit is enough for him on his original investment?
Just how much profit does he need 5,10,20.40 million quid? He has had a good few years of big wages out of the club and at times has deserved what he took, but if he really had the interests of the club in mind he would go for the right owner to bring investment in infrastructure and playing staff.
This is why he is not a supporter like the rest of us. Like all people with money playing their own real game of monopoly they can never be satisfied and greed takes over.

I'll ask it again, why does what he makes from this deal matter with regards to the team and football? We don't lose any money! He's not taking any money out of the club whatsoever! Someone is paying him to take over the clubs revenue making potential. He's not decided to nick 5,000 seats to flog somewhere or all the silverware in the trophy room. He's selling his shares for a price someone is willing to pay. Call it greedy or whatever, it has absolutely no affect on the club and the clubs money or it's assets. If he was asset stripping by all means his sale of the club would be an issue but he's not. He's selling 80% (majority) ownership of the club and it's assets. The money earnt by the club stays there for the new owner of the shares to do what they wish with.

You've also said he's not a real fan because he's wants to make as much money as he can, and apparently isn't looking for the right owner to take over. I assume that means you know exactly who he's selling to to make that claim? 

It doesn't take a degree in economics to work out that you buy low, sell higher. It is without doubt that that's a trademark of Peace's business - look at how much he's made for the club from selling distinctly average players for more than they're worth, something everyone here has praised him for. Why is this any different? Buying and selling of assets is relatively simple and I guarantee if he'd sold the club for a fraction of what it's willing to be bought for people would complain.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on June 30, 2015, 10:55:42 AM
But why does he have to make the maximum amount of profit? You cant have it both ways mate!
Oh he's a business man and that's what he does and he's blue and white through and through!
How much money does a person need?
And why does it bother you so much that other people have a view different to yours? It was a CLUB before he came with a wide range of shareholders but he has mopped up the lot and now it is a business pure and simple. But what that business relies on is the loyalty and supports of the fans for it to continue and without them then its not worth anything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 30, 2015, 11:11:24 AM
Just before Gary Megson left, he said something along the lines of,it's nice for a club to make money but not at the expense of progressing on the field.
10 years on i don't think the club has progressed either on a playing level or in the terms of the stadium.

Mr Peace has great ambition when buying shares with the clubs money, but shows a lack of ambition when buying players.
He's a five o clock Bilston market visitor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on June 30, 2015, 11:29:40 AM
10 years on i don't think the club has progressed either on a playing level or in the terms of the stadium.

Are you joking?! You must be joking.

I don't need to explain why do I?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 30, 2015, 11:32:14 AM
But why does he have to make the maximum amount of profit? You cant have it both ways mate!
Oh he's a business man and that's what he does and he's blue and white through and through!
How much money does a person need?
And why does it bother you so much that other people have a view different to yours? It was a CLUB before he came with a wide range of shareholders but he has mopped up the lot and now it is a business pure and simple. But what that business relies on is the loyalty and supports of the fans for it to continue and without them then its not worth anything.

Sadly I disagree on all counts.

Why SHOULDN'T he sell it for what someone is willing to pay? If nobody wanted the club at his asking price he wouldn't sell. What he sells the club for, for the fourth time, has NO influence on the clubs revenue. It doesn't matter one iota. So if he were to sell it for less, the only thing that would happen is he makes less money. Nothing else. Literally NOTHING. He could sell the club for 20p, we'd still make £70m+ per year, we'd still pay £50m+ on wages. He's not a charity. Saying he can't make as much money on the club as he wants makes him any less blue and white is such a flawed argument. What he sells the club for makes no difference whatsoever. Give me one reason, one reason at all why someone should sell something for less than someone is willing to pay? He's not taking any money in this deal from you, your family, the club, the players, the league or anyone except the new owners. I don't know how many times that needs to be explained. I can only see jealousy at someone making money, so please if you can find a reason why selling the club for the maximum amount someone is somehow damaging us as a club, tell me it.

And I get the sentiment towards simpler times and football for the love of the game, but when transfer fees and wages were introduced many many years ago, football clubs operated as businesses. You can't throw thousands, millions, billions of pounds worth of money around without being business-like. Christ anyone would think our best bet was to turn us into a non for profit organisation. Let's forget trying to get the best players and best facilities and just not worry about money at all. It baffles me how people can argue and protest at the amount of money in the league and then complain if we don't spend it. To be where we are in the football league system you need to spend money. We couldn't even begin to compete as a football team without making and spending money. Say we stopped operating as a business, not caring about spending money on the best players we can get, or attracting the best players we can afford wage wise, we'd fall so fast it'd make your head spin. To suggest we operate in any other way than a business is suicide. Yes it's because of the money in the game, yes I'd like us to give away free tickets and invest everything we make into the footballing side of things, but it wont happen. It'd kill us.

And the final point I disagree with, but not because I enjoy the fact that I do. This club does NOT rely on the loyalty of supporters. Not even slightly. We could have had an average attendance of fourteen last season, we'd still make £70m+ - football teams rely on the monetary rewards of success. Buy better players, perform better, get more money. Rinse and repeat. You could play every single Premier League game in front of empty stadiums and it'd make virtually no difference to the money a team makes. Portsmouth, Leeds, etc didn't drop out of the big leagues because fans turned away, it's because they acted poorly as a business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 30, 2015, 11:44:00 AM
Pompey and Leeds didn't act foolishly, they acted wrecklessly,in Pompeys case buying and paying players they couldn't afford, in the case of Leeds spending all the dosh in anticipation of a champions league run.

No one is asking for that here,just buying decent premier league players instead of gambling on lower league ones and crocks, and number 2 managers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on June 30, 2015, 11:54:55 AM
Some magical wind up merchants on this board.

Be sensible!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 30, 2015, 12:00:18 PM
I think Mr Peace is seen either as a god or a devil, and will probably always be seen that way long after he's gone.

I must say the crush some poster's seem to have on him on here is a bit unnerving.  ;)

Its not just Peace its everything.  Some people defended and supported the appointment of Irvine - which is the most ridiculous thing that has happened during Peace's tenure, closely followed by selling all your strikers in the January transfer window without replacing them (when you're in a relegation battle) twice!  Berahino is either the new young god or a jumped up idiot (I think he's probably both).  After approximately 10 years service Brunt is either useless or brilliant, or best at full back rather than wide midfield... but he was never a good captain, right?  We can have an argument about anything.

I don't know if its the same on every forum, but views and positions are entrenched and the fan base is totally divided on all but the most positive issues.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on June 30, 2015, 12:17:24 PM
Really hope we get some news soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on June 30, 2015, 12:22:05 PM
Unfortunately football isn't a fairy tale and you may tell yourself whatever you like to make you happy but the fact of the mater is football is a business these days. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter how you want to gloss it or look at it. Yes back in the day it was a working mans game with pride for your local club etc but like the rest of the world things have moved on basically motivated by money and greed.

I own a business. I run my business day to day. I LOVE my business and what I've done and I also want to make as much profit for myself out of it whilst making sure it is secure and has the stability and growth I want. But if someone wants to offer for it or I look to sell I don't frankly care how much I love it or have built it up I want as much money as humanly possible for it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 30, 2015, 12:28:21 PM
At the end of the day we used to be a family club, but with Mr Peace buying out all the shareholders we are run by an owner.
If we have to have a sole owner then i would prefer a rich one who will spend money on the team, and not go on holiday every transfer window.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on June 30, 2015, 02:11:48 PM
At the end of the day we used to be a family club, but with Mr Peace buying out all the shareholders we are run by an owner.
If we have to have a sole owner then i would prefer a rich one who will spend money on the team, and not go on holiday every transfer window.

we have never been a family club only owned by families of Silk, Millichip and other directors who got their positions by virtue of shares held due to historical family connections. The fans have always been there to supply their income and egos. The club was used to further their business interests and to entertain their friends and associates. A relatively rich mans plaything :( but true

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 30, 2015, 02:20:22 PM
Are you on JPs wage bill, just because someone has a different opinion of your mate dosnt mean their statement is wrong

Am I on JP's wage bill??

You havent voiced an opinion though you posted that the 'FACTS' are different...thats not an opinion thats trying to tell everyone that you are right and everyone else is wrong as you know exactly how he has gone about his business which im sorry to tell you you dont!

I had an opinion on what you said not on what JP has or hasnt done because I do not have any idea of the inner workings of the club over the last 12-13 years same as you.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 30, 2015, 02:27:02 PM
But why does he have to make the maximum amount of profit? You cant have it both ways mate!
Oh he's a business man and that's what he does and he's blue and white through and through!
How much money does a person need?
And why does it bother you so much that other people have a view different to yours? It was a CLUB before he came with a wide range of shareholders but he has mopped up the lot and now it is a business pure and simple. But what that business relies on is the loyalty and supports of the fans for it to continue and without them then its not worth anything.

So he should sell it for less than its worth?

He owns the business and he has put it into a position where it has becomes what its worth...Really I dont see the issue!

All I can see is jealous people....

When you sell your car do you sell it for the least you can get because you have had your value out of it and it owes you nothing?? No you get as much as you can get for it, why should him selling the club be any different
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 30, 2015, 02:30:25 PM
10 years on i don't think the club has progressed either on a playing level or in the terms of the stadium.

Im flabbergasted to read this statement

Im not even going to hide behind opinion its total rubbish
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 30, 2015, 02:32:25 PM
At the end of the day we used to be a family club, but with Mr Peace buying out all the shareholders we are run by an owner.
If we have to have a sole owner then i would prefer a rich one who will spend money on the team, and not go on holiday every transfer window.

And when we had all those shareholders what happened?

They ran the club into the ground and we was losing 60k pw until we sold Maresca and Thompson and then Peace steadied the ship before pushing it on

If JP hadnt turned up when he did I doubt very highly that we would be where we are today
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on June 30, 2015, 02:56:51 PM
lets create another dozen pages before we hear anything either way
Aye today the deadline?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 30, 2015, 03:00:20 PM
Alan nixon just tweeted

@reluctantnicko: Major changes coming at West Brom ... tale later once it makes some sense.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on June 30, 2015, 03:03:37 PM
Alan nixon just tweeted

@reluctantnicko: Major changes coming at West Brom ... tale later once it makes some sense.

Dun dun duuuuun.

Interesting, hopefully hear something today then. Thought might not be anything to do with takeover :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: labaggies on June 30, 2015, 03:14:15 PM
You are deluded, we have never been a family club only owned by families of Silk, Millichip and other directors who got their positions by virtue of shares held due to historical family connections. The fans have always been there to supply their income and egos. The club was used to further their business interests and to entertain their friends and associates. A relatively rich mans plaything :( but true

The statement about shareholding is totally incorrect, the families you mentioned had smallish shareholdings.

There were a lot of Shareholders with only 1 share, and these people were true Baggie people.

Also the position of Chairman, was not rewarded financially.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 30, 2015, 03:25:58 PM
From reading that statement from peace it sounds like he's still going to be here to me. Maybe I'm reading too much into that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: garry on June 30, 2015, 03:34:13 PM
Alan nixon just tweeted

@reluctantnicko: Major changes coming at West Brom ... tale later once it makes some sense.
Terry Burton & Mervyn Day Gone.
We know already.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on June 30, 2015, 03:52:18 PM
The statement about shareholding is totally incorrect, the families you mentioned had smallish shareholdings.

There were a lot of Shareholders with only 1 share, and these people were true Baggie people.

Also the position of Chairman, was not rewarded financially.
And the club was playing in league two and nearly bankrupt. How much was a share worth back in the good old days?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cads_ap_albion on June 30, 2015, 04:30:50 PM
Terry Burton & Mervyn Day Gone.
We know already.

Does this not fit in with the takeover, new shirts and new sponsors. i.e. clearing the decks out for a major mega investor to bring their own people in?

Or am i dreaming?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mini gaardsoe on June 30, 2015, 04:35:35 PM
Does this not fit in with the takeover, new shirts and new sponsors. i.e. clearing the decks out for a major mega investor to bring their own people in?

Or am i dreaming?

Dreaming.

Will be kit tomorrow, maybe with sponsor, which will have no relevance to any takeover. That's my guess.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 30, 2015, 04:43:46 PM
Does this not fit in with the takeover, new shirts and new sponsors. i.e. clearing the decks out for a major mega investor to bring their own people in?

Or am i dreaming?


They are installing the stage and bunting in preperation
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on June 30, 2015, 05:05:23 PM
Does this not fit in with the takeover, new shirts and new sponsors. i.e. clearing the decks out for a major mega investor to bring their own people in?

Or am i dreaming?

But wouldn't it be so, so sweet....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on June 30, 2015, 05:20:59 PM
The statement about shareholding is totally incorrect, the families you mentioned had smallish shareholdings.

There were a lot of Shareholders with only 1 share, and these people were true Baggie people.

Also the position of Chairman, was not rewarded financially.

The shareholding may not be totally correct, if I had a list I could have named them all, the majority were passes down from family to family it was not until later that a share issue was made and shares traded.  The dealings were all private up to then.

Non the less you did not contradict the remainder of the post concerning directors attitudes to the fans and the way they used their status ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 30, 2015, 05:29:25 PM
Im flabbergasted to read this statement

Im not even going to hide behind opinion its total rubbish

Our quality of players have improved slightly over the years, but we are still trying to stay out of the bottom three every season, the rest of the teams improve to, which is why i want decent signings.

Please tell me how the Hawthorns has improved as a stadium over the past 10 years, apart from a lick of paint.
The rebuilding of the Halfords never materialised, the Woodman pub, an historic building, was demolished for nothing. The ground is smaller, you do that when you are expecting sooner or later to be back in the championship.
The Hawthorns Hotel,another historic building has been bought and left to stagnate, but the price of land always goes up and so a nice little earner when the time is right to sell.
Has it never occurred to anyone that Mr Peace is buying all this land under the pretext of ground improvements as another little nest egg?

I would suggest it's not i that's deluded,or naive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on June 30, 2015, 05:38:20 PM
Our quality of players have improved slightly over the years, but we are still trying to stay out of the bottom three every season, the rest of the teams improve to, which is why i want decent signings.

Please tell me how the Hawthorns has improved as a stadium over the past 10 years, apart from a lick of paint.
The rebuilding of the Halfords never materialised, the Woodman pub, an historic building, was demolished for nothing. The ground is smaller, you do that when you are expecting sooner or later to be back in the championship.
The Hawthorns Hotel,another historic building has been bought and left to stagnate, but the price of land always goes up and so a nice little earner when the time is right to sell.
Has it never occurred to anyone that Mr Peace is buying all this land under the pretext of ground improvements as another little nest egg?

I would suggest it's not i that's deluded,or naive.


Give me strength, the Hawthorns Hotel, the Woodman Corner and any other land investments have been bought by the club, not Peace himself, they will form part of the assets of the club and add to it's value - if sold

How many of the players 10 years ago would have got into our first team squad today and held their own against, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool? and you say we haven't improved. We used to just roll over against those teams.

You may not be deluded but have a convenient memory to make the story fit 

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 30, 2015, 05:55:25 PM
Peace owns the club,and West Bromwich holdings whatever that maybe. All this for sale lark is to sell tickets, he has done it before in close season.
He won't sell the goose that's laying the golden eggs.
The time he will sell is when we eventually go down and become a mid table championship club, his own words, despite us being 11th in the all time best football clubs list.

Can anyone tell me what promises Mr Peace has kept? Ground expansion? Top half team?After the disastrous season of Clarke and Mel, which we were bloody lucky not to go down, Peace came out of his hidey hole and said,ok, i have taken a backseat lately, but now i am back and will have an hands on role. The buck stops with me. (thats true).

And then he appoints Alan Irvine.  The mans ambition is frightening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: labaggies on June 30, 2015, 05:58:00 PM
The shareholding may not be totally correct, if I had a list I could have named them all, the majority were passes down from family to family it was not until later that a share issue was made and shares traded.  The dealings were all private up to then.

Non the less you did not contradict the remainder of the post concerning directors attitudes to the fans and the way they used their status ;D

I commented on the part of your statement that was factually incorrect.

I don't have the inclination to discuss your other comments. I disagree with you, but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 30, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
When you sell your car do you sell it for the least you can get because you have had your value out of it and it owes you nothing?? No you get as much as you can get for it, why should him selling the club be any different
I'm not sure that's a good analogy - people normally pay for a car themselves, rather than getting another company to pay for it which, therefore, makes one feel more comfortable with the idea of them subsequently selling it and getting all the proceeds themselves!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 30, 2015, 06:15:21 PM
Peace owns the club,and West Bromwich holdings whatever that maybe. All this for sale lark is to sell tickets, he has done it before in close season.
He won't sell the goose that's laying the golden eggs.
The time he will sell is when we eventually go down and become a mid table championship club, his own words, despite us being 11th in the all time best football clubs list.

Can anyone tell me what promises Mr Peace has kept? Ground expansion? Top half team?After the disastrous season of Clarke and Mel, which we were bloody lucky not to go down, Peace came out of his hidey hole and said,ok, i have taken a backseat lately, but now i am back and will have an hands on role. The buck stops with me. (thats true).

And then he appoints Alan Irvine.  The mans ambition is frightening.

I almost stopped reading at 'all this for sale lark is to sell tickets' - that statement is so unbelievably erroneous it almost convinced me to not read anything else. Why would selling the club sell season tickets? There's no link. If you're inclined to by tickets on some fantasy dream that it could lead to a trillionaire buying us and then Messi, you need a reality check. Nobody's season ticket purchasing decision should be based on their own dream for what a sale might mean. If a billionaire bought us, maybe. But pretending to sell the club won't make people buy tickets. I can absolutely assure you nobody at the club put 'pretend to sell the club as a marketing ploy' forward as an idea.

Again, pure insanity would be selling the club as a championship team. We are in our strongest most appealing position now. If JP is the money grabbing dictator you paint him as hell won't sell us in a position where we aren't making sky revenue. You can half the price of the club if we went down, he can't be a money grabbing evil genius if you think he'd sell us for less than he could. You can't have it both ways. If he won't sell 'gooses that lay golden eggs' why would he sell us in a position where the new owner wouldn't make a good return and demand a higher price. And if you think he'd rather make £1.2 million a year in wages over making £100m+ in one sale you're also crazy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 30, 2015, 06:46:27 PM
I'll put this share issue to bed later - the missus works for an insolvency law firm and has access to company records, share holders and parent companies and will be able to definitely tell you how, where and what is owned by Mr Peace. IF I find evidence of foul play or questionable business practices I will of course report that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: saml30 on June 30, 2015, 07:29:02 PM
Are you joking?! You must be joking.

I don't need to explain why do I?

Wow I can't believe this comment has been made, we are a completely different monster to what we were 10 years ago. The training ground is just the staring point, do you want me to continue?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tipton Baggie on June 30, 2015, 07:40:19 PM
We've got some clowns following the albion. JP has done brilliantly for us.

Or are most fans on here started supporting us since 2007 ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 30, 2015, 07:47:26 PM
I almost stopped reading at 'all this for sale lark is to sell tickets' - that statement is so unbelievably erroneous it almost convinced me to not read anything else. Why would selling the club sell season tickets? There's no link. If you're inclined to by tickets on some fantasy dream that it could lead to a trillionaire buying us and then Messi, you need a reality check. Nobody's season ticket purchasing decision should be based on their own dream for what a sale might mean. If a billionaire bought us, maybe. But pretending to sell the club won't make people buy tickets. I can absolutely assure you nobody at the club put 'pretend to sell the club as a marketing ploy' forward as an idea.

Again, pure insanity would be selling the club as a championship team. We are in our strongest most appealing position now. If JP is the money grabbing dictator you paint him as hell won't sell us in a position where we aren't making sky revenue. You can half the price of the club if we went down, he can't be a money grabbing evil genius if you think he'd sell us for less than he could. You can't have it both ways. If he won't sell 'gooses that lay golden eggs' why would he sell us in a position where the new owner wouldn't make a good return and demand a higher price. And if you think he'd rather make £1.2 million a year in wages over making £100m+ in one sale you're also crazy.

But he has done it in the past Psalm, again at this time of year. He never say's the club is for sale during the season and then leaving it open for offers.
He always puts a time limit on it.
Why? It's either for sale or it isn't. If you were selling a house you wouldn't put it up for sale and say only for a couple of months though.
All of this uncertainty is stopping us from using the window to get signings in time for Pulis to work with before the kick off.
Peace will then come out and say he couldn't get a suitable buyer.

You know it will happen, but Mr Peace can do no wrong with some.
I don't think he would have put such an high price on us if he had any real intentions of selling, you can get the Villa for the same price.

If he does sell us to a new owner i will be the first to admit i was wrong, but i try and think logically and are not blinded by all of Peace's bull.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 30, 2015, 07:49:46 PM
We've got some clowns following the albion. JP has done brilliantly for us.

Or are most fans on here started supporting us since 2007 ::)

I started in the fifties actually,when we were one of the top clubs in the country,as we were in the sixties,seventies and early eighties.
Those of you younger, then yes, this is as good as you have seen it, but please don't patronise older Baggies who are used to a bit more than just survival and licking the chairmans boots.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie53 on June 30, 2015, 07:56:17 PM
I started in the fifties actually,when we were one of the top clubs in the country,as we were in the sixties,seventies and early eighties.
Those of you younger, then yes, this is as good as you have seen it, but please don't patronise older Baggies who are used to a bit more than just survival and licking the chairmans boots.

It was much easier to be among the top teams in those days, no freedom of contract, so if you didn't want your top players to leave they pretty much had to like it or lump it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 30, 2015, 08:01:05 PM
It was much easier to be among the top teams in those days, no freedom of contract, so if you didn't want your top players to leave they pretty much had to like it or lump it.

Yes,i agree with that, but you have to question if the chairman is pulling out all the stops to get in decent players. We are linked with so many, ok,paper talk in many cases,but they do sign eventually,for another club.
We quibble over 5k, in the case of that Irish lad who was so anonymous i can't even recall his name.

Come on, we should be better than that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tipton Baggie on June 30, 2015, 08:12:01 PM
I started in the fifties actually,when we were one of the top clubs in the country,as we were in the sixties,seventies and early eighties.
Those of you younger, then yes, this is as good as you have seen it, but please don't patronise older Baggies who are used to a bit more than just survival and licking the chairmans boots.
Never been in the red.

Brilliant training ground

Established premier league team

Everytime we've went down we've bounced straight back.

The days of thompson compared to what we've had under JP. No contest
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on June 30, 2015, 08:38:06 PM
Never been in the red.

Brilliant training ground

Established premier league team

Everytime we've went down we've bounced straight back.

The days of thompson compared to what we've had under JP. No contest

Thought is was him that laid the foundations?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on June 30, 2015, 08:55:30 PM
I honestly think that even the most hardened of businessmen (including Albion fans!), would openly admit that Peace's tenure has had an incredibly positive impact on our club. To say that "I remember the 50's, 60's and 70's" is completely irrelevant - Peace wasn't chairman then! He took over a club and team that was a shadow of it's former self - and with hard work, financial nous and a certain amount of luck (which comes with the territory), we are now an established prem team. All this achieved in an era where (due to the financial landscape) we would of certainly be left in the doldrums had we not of achived our current status. There's been no asset stripping, quite the contrary.....he has improved every area of the club that HE'S seen financially viable with the sole aim of increasing productivity. I slated JP when he appointed Irvine - it was reactionary and the only time I have. Other than that....job well done Mr P!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on June 30, 2015, 08:56:05 PM
We need the takeover, we need a new vision as i feel JP has run his race and quite possibly become disillusioned with the football rat race. Over the last couple of years he has made some monumental bloomers on the football side of the buisiness,having to sack Burton and Day just a year into thir jobs being the latest. Off the field and onto the non football goings on. e.g the faffing about over the pub next door, the distancing of the club from its roots by holding the AGM in London being high on my list. IF he goes (i`m up there with divinewind in the sceptic stakes) i will willingly thank him for his efforts at establishing us as a premier league club but i will always be left with the thought that he was continually just doing enough and no more, lacking the courage to go just that small extra step.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RuncornBaggie on June 30, 2015, 09:34:50 PM

10 years on i don't think the club has progressed either on a playing level or in the terms of the stadium.


You my fine young friend have to be on the wind up, I presume the clue is in your name!

On the pitch, the squad we had then was

Hoult
Kirkland
Kuszczak

Robinson
Gaardsoe
Clement
Wallwork
Albrechtsen
Watson
Hodgkiss
Curtis Davies
Scimeca (Left to Cardiff)
Moore (left to Derby)

Quashie
Greening
Johnson
Gera
Chaplow
Kozak
Carter
Rob Davies
Smikle
Inamoto
Dyer (Left to Milwall)
Koumas (Left to Cardiff)

Horsefield
Kamara
Campbell
Ellington
Kanu
Elvins
Nicholson
Earnshaw (Left to Norwich)


Whilst I grant you that there are some quality names there, once this season starts and the transfer window closes, we will have a much better squad this season.

We had Robson in charge!! 

All that is from wiki so it is probably way out

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Brummie Road on June 30, 2015, 10:15:06 PM
But he has done it in the past Psalm, again at this time of year. He never say's the club is for sale during the season and then leaving it open for offers.
He always puts a time limit on it.
Why? It's either for sale or it isn't. If you were selling a house you wouldn't put it up for sale and say only for a couple of months though.
All of this uncertainty is stopping us from using the window to get signings in time for Pulis to work with before the kick off.
Peace will then come out and say he couldn't get a suitable buyer.

You know it will happen, but Mr Peace can do no wrong with some.
I don't think he would have put such an high price on us if he had any real intentions of selling, you can get the Villa for the same price.

If he does sell us to a new owner i will be the first to admit i was wrong, but i try and think logically and are not blinded by all of Peace's bull.

No one at the club has publicly come out with a selling price have they?

So how do you know what the asking price is? and whether it's "high" or otherwise, or how it compares to any speculated asking price for Villa?

How do you know "you can get Villa for the same price?"


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on June 30, 2015, 10:21:37 PM
No one at the club has publicly come out with a selling price have they?

So how do you know what the asking price is? and whether it's "high" or otherwise, or how it compares to any speculated asking price for Villa?

How do you know "you can get Villa for the same price?"

Must have done his due diligence!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on June 30, 2015, 11:48:36 PM
Albion’s chairman, has signalled his intention to sell up and it is believed that a Chinese consortium has shown serious interest in taking over at The Hawthorns. Albion are expected to release a statement within the next 24 hours clarifying the takeover situation.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jun/30/west-brom-rickie-lambert-charlie-austin-terry-burton
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 01, 2015, 12:47:33 AM
John Percy the Telegraph's Midland football reporter has got the same story pretty much except he hedges his bets and says statement in the next 48 hours and does not mention a Chinese consortium. For what it is worth I think Percy is one of the better journalists on the Midlands beat so I would guess that his story is fairly well sourced.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Nathan on July 01, 2015, 01:01:48 AM
Thought is was him that laid the foundations?

It certainly was Paul Thompson that laid the foundations and without him we would have never been anywhere near the Premier League. Top bloke too, had time for us supporters. He plugged the ever increasing hole in our coffers, turned us from a club losing £30,000 a week into being in the black. An absolute unsung hero for the Albion and a man who will always be appreciated by me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lonions on July 01, 2015, 08:13:18 AM
Now i wonder if the Chinese shirt sponsor has anything to do with the takeover!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 01, 2015, 08:23:26 AM
Now i wonder if the Chinese shirt sponsor has anything to do with the takeover!


interesting indeed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 01, 2015, 08:38:07 AM
I am not sure you can read too much into the new shirt sponsor and ownership. TLCbet have been associated with the club for a while and some sort of partnership deal with us for the last 2 seasons I think
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 01, 2015, 08:41:32 AM
It certainly was Paul Thompson that laid the foundations and without him we would have never been anywhere near the Premier League. Top bloke too, had time for us supporters. He plugged the ever increasing hole in our coffers, turned us from a club losing £30,000 a week into being in the black. An absolute unsung hero for the Albion and a man who will always be appreciated by me.
My feelings exactly Nathan. JP arrived from nowhere and rode his coat tails for a period whilst he and we got established !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Watton...! on July 01, 2015, 08:52:29 AM
Didn't peace say he didn't want to work with a betting company again after bodog though? That's all I thought
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 01, 2015, 09:12:02 AM
Didn't peace say he didn't want to work with a betting company again after bodog though? That's all I thought
perhaps HE isnt going to have to,not for long anyway  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on July 01, 2015, 09:43:35 AM
Only time we have been in the red with JP is when we played away Tottenham.

Been a supporter for over 50 years and am extremely happy where we currently are, compared to similar sized clubs. Leeds, Wolves, Birmingham, Notts Forest, Derby etc etc. A lot of that is down to Mr Peace, who is a very astute business man and must take a lot of credit for that but also a lot of responsibility for the last couple of seasons shambolic situations.
Its all changed over the last few months and we are a different club and I think one with a different outlook.
I don't think JP is going anywhere TBH .... either way the prospects for next season are probably the brightest they have been for a long time, and a lot of that ids down to him, like it or not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Watton...! on July 01, 2015, 10:05:27 AM
perhaps HE isnt going to have to,not for long anyway  :D

That's what I was getting at  ;D

2+2=5 or what?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on July 01, 2015, 10:10:11 AM
Jeremy Peace is the best thing to happen to this football club in my life time.We'll miss him.

I find it laughable that people get their knickers in such a twist about the lack of a few thousand extra seats being installed in the Halfords; ignoring the fact that we are now an established Premier League outfit, that we have one of the best academies in the country, that we have superb training complex and that offering £10M for a footballer plus £70k a week in wages (SEVENTY THOUSAND) is no longer a thing of fantasy.

We've come along way and much of that is down to Jeremy Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 01, 2015, 10:30:45 AM
Has he gone yet?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 01, 2015, 10:36:20 AM
Has he gone yet?

To Barbados or from the club? I'd imagine he's just returned from his summer holidays
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: labaggies on July 01, 2015, 10:55:32 AM
Jeremy Peace is the best thing to happen to this football club in my life time.We'll miss him.

I find it laughable that people get their knickers in such a twist about the lack of a few thousand extra seats being installed in the Halfords; ignoring the fact that we are now an established Premier League outfit, that we have one of the best academies in the country, that we have superb training complex and that offering £10M for a footballer plus £70k a week in wages (SEVENTY THOUSAND) is no longer a thing of fantasy.

We've come along way and much of that is down to Jeremy Peace.

I thought that the increase in money in the Premiership was down to Sky, not JP. Maybe you know something that I don't, has he bought out the business from Murdoch....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 01, 2015, 11:03:29 AM
To Barbados or from the club? I'd imagine he's just returned from his summer holidays

So he puts the club up for sale at the end of the season and goes on holiday?
Lot's of commitment there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on July 01, 2015, 11:09:42 AM
So he puts the club up for sale at the end of the season and goes on holiday?
Lot's of commitment there.

In the modern world it does not matter where you are, you can still work.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on July 01, 2015, 11:11:42 AM
To Barbados or from the club? I'd imagine he's just returned from his summer holidays

He hasn't. He was in London last week.

I'm not ITK but if you go online and actually do a bit of research these things are easy enough to find out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 01, 2015, 11:23:54 AM
In the modern world it does not matter where you are, you can still work.

Not if you are supposed to be showing prospective buyers around a business. Or dealing in buying and selling stock.

Not saying that he has been on holiday, but he has before in the window. Who was that player who came to sign a few seasons back and there was nobody there to meet him?
I think he was Scottish or played for a scottish club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 01, 2015, 11:26:56 AM
My comment was tongue in cheek in response to has he gone.

Sure he's doing whatever he needs to if he is indeed selling or staying
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 01, 2015, 11:27:12 AM
TLC bet are based in Macau for info, (china's version of Las Vegas)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 01, 2015, 11:35:17 AM
Not if you are supposed to be showing prospective buyers around a business. Or dealing in buying and selling stock.

Not saying that he has been on holiday, but he has before in the window. Who was that player who came to sign a few seasons back and there was nobody there to meet him?
I think he was Scottish or played for a scottish club.

You can buy and sell stocks using a mobile phone anywhere in the world. And I doubt at this apparently late stage of the process he is showing somebody around the business. I'd have said that was the first thing you do to interested parties, not do it after someones rooted through your accounts with a fine tooth comb. If they're onto due diligence and the actual buying of the club it'll be a lot of lawyers arsing about.

Anyway, apparently an announcement in the next 24 hours about the situation according to the Guardian article earlier.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 01, 2015, 11:48:55 AM
Hong Kong is on holiday today (celebrating end of british rule) so I would expect announcement tomorrow a.m HK time.  (2:00 am here)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BoingFlyer on July 01, 2015, 11:51:36 AM
TLC bet are based in Macau for info, (china's version of Las Vegas)


Looks like we have had a deal with them before, more info here:
http://www.sbcnews.co.uk/sportsbook/2015/07/01/tlcbet-signs-first-shirt-sponsorship-deal-with-wba/

 Their sister site Fun88 has had sponsorship deals with Burnley and Spurs in previous years as well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fun88


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on July 01, 2015, 01:14:29 PM
I thought that the increase in money in the Premiership was down to Sky, not JP. Maybe you know something that I don't, has he bought out the business from Murdoch....

Yes and why are we receiving that money: Because we are an established Premier League outfit, and why are we established:  Because of the foundations and infrastructure that JP has laid.  We haven’t gained a place at the golden table and enjoyed all its riches through entitlement or luck.  It’s because of the footballing and business decisions which have been made over the last 10 years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 01, 2015, 01:19:13 PM
Yes and why are we receiving that money: Because we are an established Premier League outfit, and why are we established:  Because of the foundations and infrastructure that JP has laid.  We haven’t gained a place at the golden table and enjoyed all its riches through entitlement or luck.  It’s because of the footballing and business decisions which have been made over the last 10 years.

Patience fella !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 01, 2015, 01:28:35 PM
Thompson laid the foundations. ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 01, 2015, 01:31:31 PM
Googling past articles on the potential takeover from a couple of months ago, JP is reported as saying that if any deal is not completed by the beginning of July when pre-season training starts then he will shelve any possible deal so as to not impact on summer transfer dealings.

So based on this surely an announcement will be made by the end of the week on the outcome.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on July 01, 2015, 01:39:13 PM

Looks like we have had a deal with them before, more info here:
http://www.sbcnews.co.uk/sportsbook/2015/07/01/tlcbet-signs-first-shirt-sponsorship-deal-with-wba/

 Their sister site Fun88 has had sponsorship deals with Burnley and Spurs in previous years as well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fun88

I'm pretty sure Fun88 were linked with us last season potentially before we signed with QuickBooks. they seemed determined to sponsor a prem team and made offers to quite a few clubs
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 01, 2015, 01:47:08 PM
Thompson laid the foundations. ;)

maybe so, but it still needed someone to build on those foundations and establish us in the premier league . JP has been instrumental in this.

Jack Hayward laid the foundations for the dingles, but it didn't guarantee them succcess. Under Morgan they slipped 2 divisions and are in their last year with parachute payments.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 01, 2015, 02:46:05 PM
Thompson laid the foundations. ;)

Foundations are fine, you still have to build from there and even you have to admit Peace has built a strong club on those foundations,perhaps without Peace we could still be looking at the foundations.

Divine you are clutching at straws and for someone who started watching the Baggies in the mid fifties, sometime after me might add, you are looking somewhat out of your comfort zone of conjecture and supposed intrigue, you ignore the financial facts and hope to be convincing with the odd snippet, like "Thompson built the foundations". In fact it doesn't take a genius to cut costs and stop the rot, but it takes a lot more to build a business. You have not a shred of evidence that Thompson may have been up to the task
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 01, 2015, 02:59:57 PM
Peace and Thompson before him have done a fine job.

Trev the shed and Tony Hale did an awful job and nearly bankrupt the club.  Never before did we haveto have the bank asking for money ASAP to clear some of the overdraft off ! 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 01, 2015, 03:07:27 PM
Peace and Thompson before him have done a fine job.

Trev the shed and Tony Hale did an awful job and nearly bankrupt the club.  Never before did we haveto have the bank asking for money ASAP to clear some of the overdraft off !

But is that why we rate Thompson and Peace so much? Perhaps Thompson and Peace are doing an average job but anyone will perform well compared to the other clowns we had as Chairmen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 01, 2015, 03:29:42 PM
has he sold up yet?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 01, 2015, 03:34:01 PM
But is that why we rate Thompson and Peace so much? Perhaps Thompson and Peace are doing an average job but anyone will perform well compared to the other clowns we had as Chairmen.

There are no other clubs like us enjoying as much continued success. That alone tells you he's done a great job irrespective of what went before.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 01, 2015, 03:52:04 PM
has he sold up yet?

Not since 5 hours ago when you asked the same thing :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on July 01, 2015, 03:59:46 PM
Frying pan or Fire anyone?  My thoughts are we are going with the Frying Pan option for another season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 01, 2015, 04:09:52 PM
So what do we think this supposed statement is going to be? Personally I think he has sold up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 01, 2015, 04:12:49 PM
Suggestion on another board that any announcement expected today would be early in the morning (2a.m) tomorrow as It is a national holiday today in Hong Kong.

Happy Hong Kong Special Administrative Region Establishment Day everyone!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on July 01, 2015, 04:18:46 PM
So what do we think this supposed statement is going to be? Personally I think he has sold up.

I definitely agree. The fact that things have been so quiet suggest to me that a deal has been close - and a sneeze might blow the pen off the table. If so, this transfer window could be a right roller coaster!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on July 01, 2015, 04:35:44 PM
I think that if he hadn't sold he would have announced it today as the players are back and everyone's in a (relatively) good mood on the back of the stripes returning and looking decent to boot.  Something along the lines of: "I said that if the sale hadn't gone through by preseason training then we would continue as before and it hasn't so we do"

As there has been no such statement I'd assume the deal is (at the very least close to) going through.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 01, 2015, 04:41:57 PM
I wait with bated breath.  :D

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on July 01, 2015, 04:44:22 PM
It's like waiting for the John Carew sigining.  ;D

I honestly don't think a sale will happen (this summer anyway).

I have mixed feelings about a sale as there have been too many examples of new owners coming in and trying to put their stamp on the club and failing.

Better the devil you know I think in this instance.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 01, 2015, 04:50:40 PM
Done deal by all accounts looking at facebook and other WBA forums. We'll see. I'll be happy if JP is still here in 10 years time though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on July 01, 2015, 04:57:16 PM
Done deal by all accounts looking at facebook and other WBA forums. We'll see. I'll be happy if JP is still here in 10 years time though.

Facebook is exactly renowned for its reliability but who is posting this information?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 01, 2015, 04:58:52 PM
Done deal by all accounts looking at facebook and other WBA forums. We'll see. I'll be happy if JP is still here in 10 years time though.
And supposedly, who is the new buyer?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie_1 on July 01, 2015, 05:00:34 PM
It's like waiting for the John Carew sigining.  ;D

I honestly don't think a sale will happen (this summer anyway).

I have mixed feelings about a sale as there have been too many examples of new owners coming in and trying to put their stamp on the club and failing.

Better the devil you know I think in this instance.
talking of John Carew i hear he's due for a medical this week ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on July 01, 2015, 05:12:28 PM
I think its clear a deal is close, otherwise Peace would have come out at the start of June like he said he would to state that he was to stay on, that he hasn't suggests that negotiations have taken place and a deal is close to be struck.  A deal of this magnitude takes weeks if not months to seal, I'd be hedging my bets on an imminent deal.

From mutterings on this forum and others I'd say an Australian party showed initial interest and now a Chinese consortium are close, that's pure conjecture but just by the way this has been playing out I'd say its on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bigrob80 on July 01, 2015, 06:55:54 PM
I personally feel a deal is in place for a takeover, if it wasn't on I think we would have found out by now! As much as I hate hearing silence I think this 'silence' is for good reason!
Here's hoping it all goes well whatever the outcome!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 01, 2015, 07:04:05 PM
Surely if those rumours were true about a statement being released by the club it will be tomorrow now as opposed to today.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on July 01, 2015, 08:07:55 PM
Would the takeover hinder the pursuit of Matt Phillips and Asutin ?

The new owner may need time to discuss the transfer plan and the budget with Pulis. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 01, 2015, 08:17:23 PM
Would the takeover hinder the pursuit of Matt Phillips and Asutin ?

Maybe the new owner will need time to discuss the transfer plan and the budget with Pulis.


Would of thought that conversations would of already took place with potential new investors regarding transfer plans and how much money needs to be involved in those plans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 01, 2015, 08:40:47 PM
Well not a lot of money if the signings we have made up to yet are anything to go by.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 01, 2015, 08:58:31 PM
Well not a lot of money if the signings we have made up to yet are anything to go by.

So you Dont think Matt Phillips or Charlie Austin will require considerably large fees to get them from QPR.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on July 01, 2015, 10:00:03 PM
How would everyone react if they wanted to change the name of the club & home shirt like Cardiff ?
 :-X
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 01, 2015, 10:06:20 PM
How would everyone react if they wanted to change the name of the club & home shirt like Cardiff ?
 :-X
Bit of an obvious question bearing in mind the meltdown over the thickness of the stripes last season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 01, 2015, 10:11:26 PM
How would everyone react if they wanted to change the name of the club & home shirt like Cardiff ?
 :-X

Peace has already stated on a few occasions that he will only sell to the right party who will do right by the club. I would say that changing the clubs name and kit would fit under that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 01, 2015, 10:13:53 PM
So you Dont think Matt Phillips or Charlie Austin will require considerably large fees to get them from QPR.

Seeing is believing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on July 01, 2015, 10:14:32 PM
Peace has already stated on a few occasions that he will only sell to the right party who will do right by the club. I would say that changing the clubs name and kit would fit under that.

I'm sure the previous owners at Blues & Cardiff was all promised things.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on July 01, 2015, 10:19:34 PM
Even though it's only the 1st of July today it feels like this has dragged on for a good while even if it's only been 3 weeks or so, maybe that's because there's been so many rumours flying around it gets tiring and slightly boring after a while.

Would expect a decision before the start of next week either way it needs to be settled and we need to start building on mcclean in the new signings department.

Short summer for domestic football even though you can make signings throughout August ideally our business is done during this month not vital but would be nice.

Boing Boing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lonions on July 01, 2015, 10:23:45 PM
And there now sold to the highest bidder.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: matth on July 01, 2015, 10:31:29 PM
Who is?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 01, 2015, 10:54:17 PM
Wonder if John Percy is still confident in his report yesterday where he clearly stated a statement was due from the club over the course of the next 24 hours.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion07 on July 01, 2015, 10:59:14 PM
Wonder if John Percy is still confident in his report yesterday where he clearly stated a statement was due from the club over the course of the next 24 hours.
The article says within 48 hours: "Albion remain in takeover talks and Peace will clarify the club’s short-term future in a statement in the next 48 hours." - Wonder if the short-term bit means the takeover will drag on further?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 01, 2015, 11:02:12 PM
The article says within 48 hours: "Albion remain in takeover talks and Peace will clarify the club’s short-term future in a statement in the next 48 hours." - Wonder if the short-term bit means the takeover will drag on further?

If this was football manger we'd be under transfer embargo!!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on July 01, 2015, 11:39:39 PM
If this was football manger we'd be under transfer embargo!!  ;D

If this was football manager half the people on here would actually know what they were talking about for once!

Fortunately, it isn't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on July 02, 2015, 02:02:32 AM
Right it's 2am where's this announcement?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 02, 2015, 02:08:11 AM
I doubtes whether we'd announce it this late/early. It would be truly bizzare.

If we announced it at 9am our time that would be 5pm their time, I think? Would make more sense to me
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 02, 2015, 06:46:38 AM
So are we all confident in hearing something today? I hope we do!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on July 02, 2015, 08:37:07 AM
So are we all confident in hearing something today? I hope we do!

Personally? I think we might here something, but I don't think the club has been sold.

JP has made some big changes to the back room staff and can't see why he'd do it unless he was staying.

Just my opinion like :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 02, 2015, 08:44:37 AM
Personally? I think we might here something, but I don't think the club has been sold.

JP has made some big changes to the back room staff and can't see why he'd do it unless he was staying.

Just my opinion like :)

Tbh I don't even mind if peace is staying, but I just hope we at least here something regarding it today!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 02, 2015, 08:46:57 AM
Tbh I don't even mind if peace is staying, but I just hope we at least here something regarding it today!
Yes agree, surely something as got to be announced today one way or other. ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 02, 2015, 09:07:34 AM
I think JP is waiting to sign a good player, then say hes staying.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: buzzingbaggie on July 02, 2015, 09:26:22 AM
In the grand scheme of things there's Still plenty of time, wouldn't be surprised if this drags on for another week, even another 2.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 02, 2015, 09:29:48 AM
In the grand scheme of things there's Still plenty of time, wouldn't be surprised if this drags on for another week, even another 2.
Football fans are a impatient lot.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on July 02, 2015, 09:36:23 AM
Peace has already stated on a few occasions that he will only sell to the right party who will do right by the club. I would say that changing the clubs name and kit would fit under that.
They can give all the assurances and lip service they need to during negotiations but when the club is theirs they are free to do what they want is the reality, we’ve seen it happen at so many other clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 02, 2015, 10:11:19 AM
They can give all the assurances and lip service they need to during negotiations but when the club is theirs they are free to do what they want is the reality, we’ve seen it happen at so many other clubs.

unless you sign things into a contract. e.g. Morgan had to invest £30milliion into the dingles as part of the deal to buy them for £10.

if JP gets £150mil for us ... Albion = £150,000,000  Wolves = £10 , and they think they're the bigger club  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 02, 2015, 10:17:33 AM
Friday seems like a nice day for announcements. So maybe tomorrow
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 02, 2015, 10:24:40 AM
unless you sign things into a contract. e.g. Morgan had to invest £30milliion into the dingles as part of the deal to buy them for £10.

if JP gets £150mil for us ... Albion = £150,000,000  Wolves = £10 , and they think they're the bigger club  ;D

just like to add that Jack Haward had to give them £7.50 changes
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 02, 2015, 03:32:06 PM
Only Jeremy knows what happening under his dome but, it'll be great when he does one.

Slowly but surely he's divested small, loyal fans of the little bit of Albion they could ever own, a share or two.

People he praise him crdit him for his business genius are deluded.

What was genius in seeing we were a sleeping giant who had been mis-managed for over 20 years.

He saw that the tv deals were going higher and higher and mimicking the USA tv deals and had the means to come in and divide and rule.

And no i'm not jealous, i'm just someone who loves our great club and see what he's done.

We've paid approx. £4m in corporation tax the last 2 years on £22m approx. profit.

That £4m is in the HMRC coffers and will never be invested in benefit of the club.

It could have gone on new players, a new west stand, filling the east stand corners.

Instead by announcing big profits he was trying to attract a buyer for his and his sister's shares.

Another example of his greed is the £15 for the Astle t-shirts.

Did the money go to the Astle foundation?

No.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: teaguey on July 02, 2015, 03:34:31 PM
My opinion on this is - Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 02, 2015, 03:45:25 PM
My opinion on this is - Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

That's upto to you mate it's free country.

But, i had to laugh when earlier in this thread i read that Peace is going to sign demba ba as a goodbye present.

Yeah, right.

Transfer fees are spread over a period of time as are wages and signing on bonuses.

The new owner would be responsible for that not the "philanthropic" JP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 02, 2015, 03:58:18 PM
Its time for change and a gamble, we have gone as far as we can with JP and what a jolly good job he has done.
If we are ever to compete for Europe like we did in the seventies then we need the financial clout
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on July 02, 2015, 04:15:23 PM
Just finished writing a letter to him, thanking him for all that he has done for this football club.  What a great chairman.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 02, 2015, 04:22:04 PM
Just finished writing a letter to him, thanking him for all that he has done for this football club.  What a great chairman.

Is he definatley going ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 02, 2015, 04:28:17 PM
Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: salmacis on July 02, 2015, 04:30:43 PM
Its time for change and a gamble, we have gone as far as we can with JP and what a jolly good job he has done.
If we are ever to compete for Europe like we did in the seventies then we need the financial clout
Some people here seem to be labouring under the delusion that we are a big club. We are not (in Premier League terms.) Our average attendance is one of the lowest in the league. Our commercial income is one of the lowest in the league. Our brand recognition is one of the lowest in the league. It's really not helpful to bang on about our history, or the trophies we won 50 years ago or more. Football has changed, and it's now all about money - something our club has never had a lot of. Simply holding our own in the Premier League is an achievement.

For those hoping for a foreign billionaire to come in and splash the cash, realistically, how often does that work? How's that working out for Blackburn, or Cardiff, or Birmingham? The fact is that 7th is realistically the best we can hope to achieve in the Premier League - and I hate that about modern football.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: salmacis on July 02, 2015, 04:33:12 PM
Fingers crossed!
If you don't mind me asking, Baggieblood, how long have you been supporting Albion? Do you remember the dark decade before Paul Thompson? Be careful what you wish for, as it can all come crashing down very quickly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 02, 2015, 04:33:59 PM
If you don't mind me asking, Baggieblood, how long have you been supporting Albion? Do you remember the dark decade before Paul Thompson? Be careful what you wish for, as it can all come crashing down very quickly.

I think Baggieblood is Megson in disguise!  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 02, 2015, 04:40:18 PM
Some people here seem to be labouring under the delusion that we are a big club. We are not (in Premier League terms.) Our average attendance is one of the lowest in the league. Our commercial income is one of the lowest in the league. Our brand recognition is one of the lowest in the league. It's really not helpful to bang on about our history, or the trophies we won 50 years ago or more. Football has changed, and it's now all about money - something our club has never had a lot of. Simply holding our own in the Premier League is an achievement.

For those hoping for a foreign billionaire to come in and splash the cash, realistically, how often does that work? How's that working out for Blackburn, or Cardiff, or Birmingham? The fact is that 7th is realistically the best we can hope to achieve in the Premier League - and I hate that about modern football.
Completely agree. Historically we're a mid-table, top side club, and that's where we are right now. Before then (pre-Peace), we were underachieving.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 02, 2015, 04:40:41 PM
1987 first game was a 3-2 win over huddersfield (terrible strip) from rainbow stand. Morley hat-trick.

Followed them to over 70 grounds home and abroad (anglo-italian).

Had a season ticket since i could afford one, since 2001.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: salmacis on July 02, 2015, 04:52:55 PM
So you remember the worst of it then. Peace has done a fantastic job in establishing ourselves in the Premier League, without saddling us with debt. The chances are that his successor will not be as astute. Think of the transition from Ashworth to Garlick, for instance. The Championship is full of clubs that could easily replace us, and I don't want to end up back there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 02, 2015, 04:59:01 PM
I wonder if the likes of John Percy will have egg on their faces tonight or will his article stating a statement is 48 hours away prove to be true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on July 02, 2015, 05:08:07 PM
John Percy is normally quite reliable, maybe something may leak later on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: devonbaggiecjaj on July 02, 2015, 05:11:18 PM
if it's to be the Chinese man who buy's into/takes over at the club who's to say he will be make any changes at board level, i believe he left the board at Athletico Madrid intact (although he only brought a 20% stake), he's obviously a very astute business man and knows how to delegate, so for me why would he want to remove JP who has served the club so well when there would be a time of massive upheaval. Surely having someone with JP's experience & track record would only help him see some return on any investment he made, not like the people who were employed at the clubs that struggled following take overs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 02, 2015, 05:23:42 PM
I wonder if the likes of John Percy will have egg on their faces tonight or will his article stating a statement is 48 hours away prove to be true.

I would suspect they would merely state they were reporting what they were were told if their source proved to be less reliable than at first thought why should they be embarrassed? I don't think anyone really knows but this will be resolved shortly, if for no other reason that after two months of due diligence and negotiations there is either a deal on the table or there isn't.

Peace will not pull the plug on the sale for the sake of a few days here or there but if there was no serious interest it would have been halted by now.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: teaguey on July 02, 2015, 06:57:06 PM
It's not just the football and the league position. Look around the ground, it's maintained perfectly. I go away all round the country and see stands far newer looking considerably older than our ground because of the constant maintainence and upgrades we receive.

I grew up watching games from the old Rainbow, struggling to beat Port Vale and Bristol Rovers. I now watch my club from the smethwick beating Chelsea 3-0 and competing in the most watched football league on the planet. I for one and proud of our club and am extremely thankful for what JP has done for the club. Regardless of his penny pinching and business model. A bi-product of his successful business model is indeed a successful football team. I know we moan that it ain't good enough from time to time but at least in my life time this is the most successful Albion I've ever seen.

I do hold a grudge for the Irvine appointment but that's another story.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 02, 2015, 07:14:47 PM
I've heard that it's chinese which seems to be common knowledge and that the new owner does have a lot of money. Not wang jianlin however
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 02, 2015, 07:20:29 PM
I've heard that it's chinese which seems to be common knowledge and that the new owner does have a lot of money. Not wang jianlin however
Do you know when it will become public knowledge?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 02, 2015, 07:26:03 PM
I've heard that it's chinese which seems to be common knowledge and that the new owner does have a lot of money. Not wang jianlin however

I'm just getting sick of speculation and hear say now. I just want to hear something concrete from the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 02, 2015, 07:38:19 PM
I'm just getting sick of speculation and hear say now. I just want to hear something concrete from the club.

Too true, Just want to get on with the closed season
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 02, 2015, 07:58:39 PM
I've heard that it's chinese which seems to be common knowledge and that the new owner does have a lot of money. Not wang jianlin however
is he one of the wongs from Beijing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: labaggies on July 02, 2015, 08:00:23 PM
if it's to be the Chinese man who buy's into/takes over at the club who's to say he will be make any changes at board level, i believe he left the board at Athletico Madrid intact (although he only brought a 20% stake), he's obviously a very astute business man and knows how to delegate, so for me why would he want to remove JP who has served the club so well when there would be a time of massive upheaval. Surely having someone with JP's experience & track record would only help him see some return on any investment he made, not like the people who were employed at the clubs that struggled following take overs.

Peace will run a mile from The Hawthorns,  as soon as the cheque clears. Peace was never an Albion man, just an opportunistic accountant....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 02, 2015, 08:19:38 PM
There's no harm in anyone speculating about the prospective new owners and what money they will make available for new signings. We should not get away from the basic fact, however, that NO-ONE outside the corridors of power knows who these faceless people are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 02, 2015, 08:22:14 PM
Peace will run a mile from The Hawthorns,  as soon as the cheque clears. Peace was never an Albion man, just an opportunistic accountant....

And what if he does?

He will leave the Albion in a much better position than when he found it.

- A much better financial footing; the richest we've ever been
- Far greater training facilities
- An academy which is looking successful
- And a good group of players - much better than the ones when he took over
- a sixth consecutive season in the Premier League

That is not a bad record for the opportunistic accountant is it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 02, 2015, 08:40:33 PM
Peace will run a mile from The Hawthorns,  as soon as the cheque clears. Peace was never an Albion man, just an opportunistic accountant....

Just look at it from the point of view from a West Brom fan, and not the agenda you have against the man personally.

If you don't think he has done a cracking job then I don't know what you expect. I really couldn't care less if he has made himself a very rich man in the process, I'll go as far as saying he deserves it and it sums up how good he is at his job when he can make himself rich and make the business successful
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: labaggies on July 02, 2015, 08:42:45 PM
And what if he does?

He will leave the Albion in a much better position than when he found it.

- A much better financial footing; the richest we've ever been
- Far greater training facilities
- An academy which is looking successful
- And a good group of players - much better than the ones when he took over
- a sixth consecutive season in the Premier League

That is not a bad record for the opportunistic accountant is it?

I was responding to a comment that Peace should stay in a Director capacity, I'm sorry but your comments are irrelevant to my response.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: labaggies on July 02, 2015, 08:46:57 PM
Just look at it from the point of view from a West Brom fan, and not the agenda you have against the man personally.

If you don't think he has done a cracking job then I don't know what you expect. I really couldn't care less if he has made himself a very rich man in the process, I'll go as far as saying he deserves it and it sums up how good he is at his job when he can make himself rich and make the business successful

Are you saying I'm not a West Brom fan?
This season will be my 58th....
And no matter how good a job you think that he has done, he certainly has not earned the enormous fortune he will take from our club.
Tell me what have we won during his tenure. Nothing.
I wonder how much you think he would deserve if we had been successful.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on July 02, 2015, 09:00:52 PM
Isn't JP a well known Albion fan even before he took over?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 02, 2015, 09:03:34 PM
Are you saying I'm not a West Brom fan?
This season will be my 58th....
And no matter how good a job you think that he has done, he certainly has not earned the enormous fortune he will take from our club.
Tell me what have we won during his tenure. Nothing.
I wonder how much you think he would deserve if we had been successful.

We won the football league Championship.  ;)

Effectively he took a club that was only worth whatever the land the ground is built on was worth and built it into a Premier League club with multi million pound turnover about to enjoy the largest contract in Football history. And to ensure we get a piece of it has employed a manager who doesn't get relegated.  Ever. Sounds like an astute chap who has earned every penny in an industry renowned for losing money by the millions.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 02, 2015, 09:07:45 PM
We won the football league Championship.  ;)

Effectively he took a club that was only worth whatever the land the ground is built on was worth and built it into a Premier League club with multi million pound turnover about to enjoy the largest contract in Football history. And to ensure we get a piece of it has employed a manager who doesn't get relegated.  Ever. Sounds like an astute chap who has earned every penny in an industry renowned for losing money by the millions.
Excellent post Jacko, some people will never be happy until he as gone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 02, 2015, 09:09:43 PM
Are you saying I'm not a West Brom fan?
This season will be my 58th....
And no matter how good a job you think that he has done, he certainly has not earned the enormous fortune he will take from our club.
Tell me what have we won during his tenure. Nothing.
I wonder how much you think he would deserve if we had been successful.

On the other hand we won f*ck all the 20 previous years. In fact we were close to financial disaster. your point about whatever he makes from this proposed sale hold no water, Why? because like it or not it is his club. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 02, 2015, 09:10:59 PM
I've heard that it's chinese which seems to be common knowledge and that the new owner does have a lot of money. Not wang jianlin however

I just don't get then why does the club take so long to announce something?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 02, 2015, 09:14:17 PM
Are you saying I'm not a West Brom fan?
This season will be my 58th....
And no matter how good a job you think that he has done, he certainly has not earned the enormous fortune he will take from our club.
Tell me what have we won during his tenure. Nothing.
I wonder how much you think he would deserve if we had been successful.
He literally has earned every penny he's made...it's all his.

Call him 'smart', call him 'ruthless' or whatever, he's earned everything by himself, using whatever methods possible. To say he hasn't earned it is stupid...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 02, 2015, 09:17:00 PM
I just don't get then why does the club take so long to announce something?
Ratification probably by the Premier League. Fit and proper test, etc
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 02, 2015, 09:24:43 PM
I was responding to a comment that Peace should stay in a Director capacity, I'm sorry but your comments are irrelevant to my response.

Yes they are. Equally, I could have quoted your other posts on the matter.

You labelled him an opportunistic accountant and I have listed several of his achievements which shows him to be a bit more than an opportunistic accountant don't you think?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 02, 2015, 09:36:18 PM
Are you saying I'm not a West Brom fan?
This season will be my 58th....
And no matter how good a job you think that he has done, he certainly has not earned the enormous fortune he will take from our club.
Tell me what have we won during his tenure. Nothing.
I wonder how much you think he would deserve if we had been successful.

No I'm not saying that at all mate, I'm saying your agenda with him looks to me that you are totally forgetting that he has been a successful chairman. Can you honestly say he hasn't been???

Yes he has made money along the way but as long as we have been successful as a club why should we care?

If we were languishing at the bottom of the championship for years and he was still making a fortune I wouldn't be happy but he has given us our most successful period for nearly 3 decades
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 02, 2015, 09:45:17 PM
Has he gone yet?  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 02, 2015, 10:01:15 PM
Some people here seem to be labouring under the delusion that we are a big club. We are not (in Premier League terms.) Our average attendance is one of the lowest in the league. Our commercial income is one of the lowest in the league. Our brand recognition is one of the lowest in the league. It's really not helpful to bang on about our history, or the trophies we won 50 years ago or more. Football has changed, and it's now all about money - something our club has never had a lot of. Simply holding our own in the Premier League is an achievement.

For those hoping for a foreign billionaire to come in and splash the cash, realistically, how often does that work? How's that working out for Blackburn, or Cardiff, or Birmingham? The fact is that 7th is realistically the best we can hope to achieve in the Premier League - and I hate that about modern football.

Our average attendance is one of the lowest in the league because under Peace the ground has become smaller.
Our commercial income is one of the lowest in the league because Peace has not got the nous to sell the club to the public.
Our brand recognition is one of the lowest in the league because Peace puts Albion out to play in unrecognisable strips instead of listening to the fans preferred choice.
Football is all about money now,...damn right it is and Peace refuses to pay realistic prices for decent players,frustrating managers in the process. The reason we need a rich investor,or even an investor that spends money on players instead of shares.
Simply holding onto a place in the premier league is an achievement in itself.
Bloody hell,he's even got you thinking like him now.

Keep aiming low and you will never be disillusioned, but you will never taste ecstacy either.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on July 02, 2015, 10:08:24 PM
Our average attendance is one of the lowest in the league because under Peace the ground has become smaller.
Our commercial income is one of the lowest in the league because Peace has not got the nous to sell the club to the public.
Our brand recognition is one of the lowest in the league because Peace puts Albion out to play in unrecognisable strips instead of listening to the fans preferred choice.
Football is all about money now,...damn right it is and Peace refuses to pay realistic prices for decent players,frustrating managers in the process. The reason we need a rich investor,or even an investor that spends money on players instead of shares.
Simply holding onto a place in the premier league is an achievement in itself.
Bloody hell,he's even got you thinking like him now.

Keep aiming low and you will never be disillusioned, but you will never taste ecstacy either.

Oh my god I really do despair... I give up I really do
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 02, 2015, 10:23:53 PM
Some of these posts cannot be serious surely  ;D

Gives you a laugh after a rubbish day at work though
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 02, 2015, 10:25:12 PM
I actually think a Chinese buyer either rich or not would be better for us than an American or Aussie one. Football and especially the premier league is very big in Asia, and both our commercial income and brand would become truly global. especially with us being the first British club to tour China.

But i don't believe Peace has any intention of selling while we are in the prem,which is why he set such an high price. His is amking a lot of money out of us.

The quotes i have read about the asking price is what i saw in the E&S, £150m to £200m depending on whatt division we were in, so nearer to £200m at present IF you can believe  all you read.
Of course when he does sell it will be for an undisclosed fee, the same as all of his dealings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 02, 2015, 10:28:17 PM
Oh my god I really do despair... I give up I really do

I love a well thought out and reasoned response.  :P

Anyway i'm off to bed,perhaps we will hear an announcement tomorrow, or in the next 48 hours, or next week...or maybe never.

Will the last one reading this thread remember to turn the light off please?  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 02, 2015, 10:33:04 PM
He aint going .... another con trick I think.
Two days after his deadline and no sign of an announcement.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 02, 2015, 10:43:56 PM
He aint going .... another con trick I think.
Two days after his deadline and no sign of an announcement.

I think if there was no takeover, we would have known by now. I am going to assume we are in the very final stages of a takeover. I might be wrong though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 02, 2015, 10:46:01 PM
Does anyone think it could be an investor with peace staying on as chairmen having split his control?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 02, 2015, 10:51:59 PM
I've heard that it's chinese which seems to be common knowledge and that the new owner does have a lot of money. Not wang jianlin however

You haven't heard anything. Nobody has. Just in the same way that you had no clue about the Ba transfer or any other that you make out to have inside info. Stop winding the more gullible members of this forum up, it's getting boring now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on July 02, 2015, 11:15:31 PM
You haven't heard anything. Nobody has. Just in the same way that you had no clue about the Ba transfer or any other that you make out to have inside info. Stop winding the more gullible members of this forum up, it's getting boring now.

I'm glad someone has finally put this guy in his place, it's gets so boring reading his pretend 'ITK' drivel.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 02, 2015, 11:24:18 PM
I'm glad someone has finally put this guy in his place, it's gets so boring reading his pretend 'ITK' drivel.

I have to agree. Dont get me wrong I share bits and pieces I hear every now and then but it is a rarity and in good faith. No disrespect to baggie96 but if I'm not mistaken I believe none of the stuff he has apparently heard has worked out to be true. The fact of the matter is this is a very private thing between a seller and a consortium who will want to keep their identity secret until a deal is done Atleast. I am slightly Dissapointed it hasn't turned out to be true regarding a statement from the club as John Percy is usually very reliable but I suppose it's not the first time journalists have been incorrect and it wont be the last time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 02, 2015, 11:32:06 PM
I love a well thought out and reasoned response.  :P

Anyway i'm off to bed,perhaps we will hear an announcement tomorrow, or in the next 48 hours, or next week...or maybe never.

Will the last one reading this thread remember to turn the light off please?  ;)
I would do...but I can't find the bloody switch. ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 02, 2015, 11:32:37 PM
I'm just wondering if Jeremy Peace has met his match in terms of negotiations.

Wondering whether our prospective new man has thrown in a curve ball at the last minute to drive the price down and maximise his potential investment.

You know, throw him off balance a little just when he thinks everything has gone his way.
Definitely not ITK, just a random thought.
 ;).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 02, 2015, 11:35:21 PM
I love a well thought out and reasoned response.  :P

Anyway i'm off to bed,perhaps we will hear an announcement tomorrow, or in the next 48 hours, or next week...or maybe never.

Will the last one reading this thread remember to turn the light off please?  ;)

Well I hope you rest easy and wake up tomorrow with some common sense instead of the blinkered view you have ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on July 02, 2015, 11:36:01 PM
I think if there was no takeover, we would have known by now. I am going to assume we are in the very final stages of a takeover. I might be wrong though.

Is it really that easy to keep the sale of a business worth over 100m quiet? I'd have thought something like that would be extremely difficult to keep under wraps. An awful lot of work, and an awful lot of people would be involved in such a sale. Usually when you see clubs sold the sellers have been rumoured weeks if not months in advance.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 02, 2015, 11:40:14 PM
I'm just wondering if Jeremy Peace has met his match in terms of negotiations.

Wondering whether our prospective new man has thrown in a curve ball at the last minute to drive the price down and maximise his potential investment.

You know, throw him off balance a little just when he thinks everything has gone his way.
Definitely not ITK, just a random thought.
 ;).

The Chinese businessmen I've met are very shrewd negotiators, they will not do a deal unless they know you and you earn their respect, hard negotiations with no wriggle room are not the way to go. I hope Peace isn't being intransigent
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 02, 2015, 11:44:20 PM
Is it really that easy to keep the sale of a business worth over 100m quiet? I'd have thought something like that would be extremely difficult to keep under wraps. An awful lot of work, and an awful lot of people would be involved in such a sale. Usually when you see clubs sold the sellers have been rumoured weeks if not months in advance.

Depends I guess. I mean if they sign and break the NDA you could be basically ruined for life.

I am not sure that much people will be actively working on it, and the people/small team that are, are used to doing it. They would have likely done much bigger deals during their careers.

I am not sure thought really just guessing. I honestly don't know how it works.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 02, 2015, 11:45:47 PM
The Chinese businessmen I've met are very shrewd negotiators, they will not do a deal unless they know you and you earn their respect, hard negotiations with no wriggle room are not the way to go. I hope Peace isn't being intransigent

Interesting insight, thank you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on July 02, 2015, 11:56:26 PM
Our average attendance is one of the lowest in the league because under Peace the ground has become smaller.
Our commercial income is one of the lowest in the league because Peace has not got the nous to sell the club to the public.
Our brand recognition is one of the lowest in the league because Peace puts Albion out to play in unrecognisable strips instead of listening to the fans preferred choice.
Football is all about money now,...damn right it is and Peace refuses to pay realistic prices for decent players,frustrating managers in the process. The reason we need a rich investor,or even an investor that spends money on players instead of shares.
Simply holding onto a place in the premier league is an achievement in itself.
Bloody hell,he's even got you thinking like him now.

Keep aiming low and you will never be disillusioned, but you will never taste ecstacy either.

-6th consecutive Premier League season, which include 8th, 10th and 11th place finishes.

-State of the art training ground.

-Category 1 Academy Status, thought to be one of the best in the country (5th best   provider of England youth players).

-Huge developments and investment made into an extensive scouting network, medical department and video and statistical analysis.

-No debt.

-Average attendance figure during Peace's entire tenure: 24,519.  Average attendance for the 5 years before Peace's tenure: 16,879.

-Competitive wages, Ba reportedly offered a 3 year contract worth £70,000 a week. 
'Albion’s wages have increased 10-fold in the 12 years that Peace has been in charge. “The top-paid player was on £4,500 a week in the Championship at that time, and that was big for us then.’’ Now Albion’s best-paid player is on £50,000 a week'
(Jeremy Peace interview with Henry Winter, Daily Telegraph, October 2014)

- Competitive season ticket pricing (ranked 3rd cheapest Premier League season ticket 2014/15).

-Commercial and sporting partnerships developed in India.

-The creator of the loan to permanent deal, initially developed by Peace to redirect tax into the following financial year, now common place in football.  Flex down contracts, another innovative concept formulated by Peace, now common place in football.

-New £2M shirt sponsorship deal.

I could go on and on, he has has done a phenomenal job in my eyes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on July 03, 2015, 04:42:15 AM
-6th consecutive Premier League season, which include 8th, 10th and 11th place finishes.

-State of the art training ground.

-Category 1 Academy Status, thought to be one of the best in the country (5th best   provider of England youth players).

-Huge developments and investment made into an extensive scouting network, medical department and video and statistical analysis.

-No debt.

-Average attendance figure during Peace's entire tenure: 24,519.  Average attendance for the 5 years before Peace's tenure: 16,879.

-Competitive wages, Ba reportedly offered a 3 year contract worth £70,000 a week. 
'Albion’s wages have increased 10-fold in the 12 years that Peace has been in charge. “The top-paid player was on £4,500 a week in the Championship at that time, and that was big for us then.’’ Now Albion’s best-paid player is on £50,000 a week'
(Jeremy Peace interview with Henry Winter, Daily Telegraph, October 2014)

- Competitive season ticket pricing (ranked 3rd cheapest Premier League season ticket 2014/15).

-Commercial and sporting partnerships developed in India.

-The creator of the loan to permanent deal, initially developed by Peace to redirect tax into the following financial year, now common place in football.  Flex down contracts, another innovative concept formulated by Peace, now common place in football.

-New £2M shirt sponsorship deal.

I could go on and on, he has has done a phenomenal job in my eyes.
You are spot on, he has done a phenomenal job, and will be recognised by most as having done so, but only when he has gone unfortunately.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 03, 2015, 06:43:22 AM
John Percy still feels there will be announcement regarding the takeover will be happening soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on July 03, 2015, 06:46:00 AM
-6th consecutive Premier League season, which include 8th, 10th and 11th place finishes.

-State of the art training ground.

-Category 1 Academy Status, thought to be one of the best in the country (5th best   provider of England youth players).

-Huge developments and investment made into an extensive scouting network, medical department and video and statistical analysis.

-No debt.

-Average attendance figure during Peace's entire tenure: 24,519.  Average attendance for the 5 years before Peace's tenure: 16,879.

-Competitive wages, Ba reportedly offered a 3 year contract worth £70,000 a week. 
'Albion’s wages have increased 10-fold in the 12 years that Peace has been in charge. “The top-paid player was on £4,500 a week in the Championship at that time, and that was big for us then.’’ Now Albion’s best-paid player is on £50,000 a week'
(Jeremy Peace interview with Henry Winter, Daily Telegraph, October 2014)

- Competitive season ticket pricing (ranked 3rd cheapest Premier League season ticket 2014/15).

-Commercial and sporting partnerships developed in India.

-The creator of the loan to permanent deal, initially developed by Peace to redirect tax into the following financial year, now common place in football.  Flex down contracts, another innovative concept formulated by Peace, now common place in football.

-New £2M shirt sponsorship deal.

I could go on and on, he has has done a phenomenal job in my eyes.

spot on ... and more to the point you have saved me the effort or responding to this uneducated and bias drivel
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on July 03, 2015, 06:51:59 AM
Hopefully we hear something today  :) good news Friday.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sarniabaggie on July 03, 2015, 07:49:11 AM
-6th consecutive Premier League season, which include 8th, 10th and 11th place finishes.

-State of the art training ground.

-Category 1 Academy Status, thought to be one of the best in the country (5th best   provider of England youth players).

-Huge developments and investment made into an extensive scouting network, medical department and video and statistical analysis.

-No debt.

-Average attendance figure during Peace's entire tenure: 24,519.  Average attendance for the 5 years before Peace's tenure: 16,879.

-Competitive wages, Ba reportedly offered a 3 year contract worth £70,000 a week. 
'Albion’s wages have increased 10-fold in the 12 years that Peace has been in charge. “The top-paid player was on £4,500 a week in the Championship at that time, and that was big for us then.’’ Now Albion’s best-paid player is on £50,000 a week'
(Jeremy Peace interview with Henry Winter, Daily Telegraph, October 2014)

- Competitive season ticket pricing (ranked 3rd cheapest Premier League season ticket 2014/15).

-Commercial and sporting partnerships developed in India.

-The creator of the loan to permanent deal, initially developed by Peace to redirect tax into the following financial year, now common place in football.  Flex down contracts, another innovative concept formulated by Peace, now common place in football.

-New £2M shirt sponsorship deal.

I could go on and on, he has has done a phenomenal job in my eyes.

Phenomenal indeed, as 'iwasthere' says, it is when/if has gone that people might look back and realise the depth of the mans contribution.

We may never be so fortunate again, should a foreign investor arrive and tire of his plaything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 03, 2015, 08:03:07 AM
-6th consecutive Premier League season, which include 8th, 10th and 11th place finishes.

-State of the art training ground.

-Category 1 Academy Status, thought to be one of the best in the country (5th best   provider of England youth players).

-Huge developments and investment made into an extensive scouting network, medical department and video and statistical analysis.

-No debt.

-Average attendance figure during Peace's entire tenure: 24,519.  Average attendance for the 5 years before Peace's tenure: 16,879.

-Competitive wages, Ba reportedly offered a 3 year contract worth £70,000 a week. 
'Albion’s wages have increased 10-fold in the 12 years that Peace has been in charge. “The top-paid player was on £4,500 a week in the Championship at that time, and that was big for us then.’’ Now Albion’s best-paid player is on £50,000 a week'
(Jeremy Peace interview with Henry Winter, Daily Telegraph, October 2014)

- Competitive season ticket pricing (ranked 3rd cheapest Premier League season ticket 2014/15).

-Commercial and sporting partnerships developed in India.

-The creator of the loan to permanent deal, initially developed by Peace to redirect tax into the following financial year, now common place in football.  Flex down contracts, another innovative concept formulated by Peace, now common place in football.

-New £2M shirt sponsorship deal.

I could go on and on, he has has done a phenomenal job in my eyes.


Lock the thread, there's your winner. Undoubtedly though, we'll get another obscure stick to beat JP with now you've proved some wrong; I'm guessing 'he can't be blue and white as he's never down the Sportsman before games' with an unhealthy dose of 'he said we were a mid table championship club' thrown in for good measure.

Anyway Signor, you've pretty much nailed it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 03, 2015, 08:09:10 AM
spot on ... and more to the point you have saved me the effort or responding to this uneducated and bias drivel

Thank you, totally agree, the facts speak for themselves rather than biased, jealous, ill informed, rumour driven, conspiracy and , personal agenda, spouted on this thread
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 03, 2015, 09:01:26 AM
John Percy still feels there will be announcement regarding the takeover will be happening soon.

Got a link?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on July 03, 2015, 09:05:57 AM
People say you don't know what you've got until it's gone. But sometimes, the truth is, you knew what you had, you just never thought you'd lose it.

I for one will be sorry to see JP leave, although I acknowledge its probably time for change if the club is to progress.

IMHO, JP is a modern day equivalent to Fred Everiss in what he has done and achieved for West Bromwich Albion FC. as Signor_Maresca has summed up so concisely.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 03, 2015, 09:08:58 AM
Got a link?

No , someone on Twitter this morningasked him if he still feels there will be an announcement soon although 48 hours have passed, and he replied 'yes' although I've just looked and it seems he's deleted the comment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 03, 2015, 09:12:06 AM
No , someone on Twitter this morningasked him if he still feels there will be an announcement soon although 48 hours have passed, and he replied 'yes' although I've just looked and it seems he's deleted the comment.

I see ok, yes I looked but couldn't see anything. Interesting anyway thanks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 03, 2015, 09:25:09 AM
I have heard from someone i know within the game that JP staying on is a strong possibility.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 03, 2015, 09:34:07 AM
I have heard from someone i know within the game that JP staying on is a strong possibility.
Better the devil you know is an old saying. Yes someone can come in with millions and millions of pounds and say they are going to do this, that and the other, then ruin our club.

In other words it will not be the end of the world if JP stays.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: nick_wba on July 03, 2015, 09:37:10 AM
I have heard from someone i know within the game that JP staying on is a strong possibility.

And I pray that’s the case, I really don’t think a foreign owner is worth the gamble. We won’t be a Man City. We won’t be a Chelsea, simple. However there is a high probability we could into a QPR, Blues, Cardiff, Portsmouth, Blackburn, Fulham or Blackpool – the evidence is there. Stability over volatility
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: jwilkes90 on July 03, 2015, 09:44:10 AM
It's happening
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 03, 2015, 09:46:06 AM
It's happening
How do you know this?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Welsh_Baggie on July 03, 2015, 10:00:19 AM
And I pray that’s the case, I really don’t think a foreign owner is worth the gamble. We won’t be a Man City. We won’t be a Chelsea, simple. However there is a high probability we could into a QPR, Blues, Cardiff, Portsmouth, Blackburn, Fulham or Blackpool – the evidence is there. Stability over volatility

I used to believe this but i'm 36 years old and the highlights of supporting Albion have been winning the play-offs against Port Vale, The Great Escape, a few promotions and winning the Championship.  I would swap another 30 years of survival for a few good seasons followed by returning to the Championship.  What's the point if we never win anything???  I'd love a cup win and some European football for a few years even if it meant going down afterwards.  Some older fans don't quite understand this as they have seen European football at the Hawthorns and celebrated cup success. If we don't have a big investment and act a little reckless I doubt i'll see it in my lifetime.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 03, 2015, 10:04:21 AM
It's happening


I am made to believe the same
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 03, 2015, 10:09:35 AM
Bill howell has said on Twitter an announcement will be made at 10:30
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion07 on July 03, 2015, 10:09:52 AM

I am made to believe the same
Bill Howell says announcement at 10:30
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 03, 2015, 10:10:42 AM
Bill howell has said on Twitter an announcement will be made at 10:30


to be fair if it was big sky would be covering i am sure. JP for me is here to stay
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion07 on July 03, 2015, 10:12:10 AM

to be fair if it was big sky would be covering i am sure. JP for me is here to stay
John Percy did say the statement was clarifying the short term future, so could easily be an extension of the deadline.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 03, 2015, 10:13:35 AM
JP is staying on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion07 on July 03, 2015, 10:17:34 AM
"James Nursey
‏@JamesNursey
#WBA ownership statement at 10.30. Reported previously in promising talks with Chinese group. Likely next step? exclusivity agreement"

https://twitter.com/JamesNursey/status/616897960245338113
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on July 03, 2015, 10:18:34 AM
James Nursey ‏@JamesNursey

#WBA ownership statement at 10.30. Reported previously in promising talks with Chinese group. Likely next step? exclusivity agreement
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on July 03, 2015, 10:30:31 AM
cant take this, whatever happens there will be some fans who will be happy and some who wont.

Just want it over with
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 03, 2015, 10:37:08 AM
Change their mind now lol
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 03, 2015, 10:38:42 AM
Has the fax machine broke?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mrmojorisin on July 03, 2015, 10:39:33 AM
Has the fax machine broke?
Made in China!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on July 03, 2015, 10:40:33 AM
Very excited, keep clicking f5, but still can't find the statement lol   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 03, 2015, 10:40:37 AM
10:30 in China maybe ...?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 03, 2015, 10:43:02 AM
To avoid us having four or five copies of the same announcement, I will post the link and the text of the article into here as soon as it is up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 03, 2015, 10:43:23 AM
China are 7 hours ahead so must be PM
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mini gaardsoe on July 03, 2015, 10:46:41 AM
Bill Howell.... Honestly guys.. this is worth waiting for #wba
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 03, 2015, 10:47:38 AM
Nervous, this will change the club for years.. might be good.. could be disastrous.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 03, 2015, 10:50:30 AM
Bill Howell.... Honestly guys.. this is worth waiting for #wba

What a tease
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 03, 2015, 10:51:28 AM
can we have an official statement explaining what happened to the official statement due at 10.30 please
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 03, 2015, 10:56:48 AM
Crikey it feels like Christmas Eve as a kid.
Hope I don't end up getting a mouldy orange for a laugh again.
 :P.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: batesg123 on July 03, 2015, 10:58:16 AM
These times are guidelines given to journalists with the understanding that they don't say anything until the announcement. It basically gives them time to organise somebody to report on whatever it is. The time shouldn't be taken as gospel and they really shouldn't announce that there is an announcement due. Some of them just cant help themselves.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 03, 2015, 10:58:23 AM
Maybe the announcement is FA seen the kit video and have given Dawson a 1 game ban?

(robbed from somewhere else, funny though)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on July 03, 2015, 11:00:14 AM
A new announcement will be made as another team has nicked our investor in a last minute turn around

meanwhile my work duties have gone down the pan, can't concentrate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 03, 2015, 11:02:04 AM
Q: What do you call a Chinese Billionaire?

A: Cha Ching!

 ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 03, 2015, 11:02:34 AM
technical issues rather than a cancellation of statement. Any time now #wba

- Bill Howell
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 03, 2015, 11:02:44 AM
I was going down the pub but ay now, please hurry up and tell us and put us out our misery.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mini gaardsoe on July 03, 2015, 11:03:24 AM
Haha, technical problems.... who made a joke about the fax machine!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 03, 2015, 11:05:04 AM
These chinese whispers are killing me.

No mention on radio wm.

anything on sky sports news?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 03, 2015, 11:05:20 AM
Haha, technical problems.... who made a joke about the fax machine!

That would be me. It's never simple at the albion
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 03, 2015, 11:05:37 AM
Sky Sports News to run something shortly ...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 03, 2015, 11:05:41 AM
Not diverting traffic away from this forum but there is a live feed from Birmingham Mail.

It's a 'dedicated live blog to the developments on the news of West Bromwich Albion's takeover this morning.'

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/live-west-brom-takeover-updates-9579615? (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/live-west-brom-takeover-updates-9579615?)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 03, 2015, 11:05:54 AM
These chinese whispers are killing me.

No mention on radio wm.

anything on sky sports news?

Just announcement of the announcement. Stay tuned blah blah.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 03, 2015, 11:07:49 AM
Drum roll.................
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 03, 2015, 11:09:23 AM
Should've used a QuickBook
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 03, 2015, 11:11:59 AM
this better not be along the lines 'we've entered in an exclusivity agreement with a potential buyer  and can't tell you any more due to commercial confidentiality  ...'
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 03, 2015, 11:12:26 AM
Wonder how many pages this thread will get to before the announcement is made.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 03, 2015, 11:13:05 AM
Brum Mail has just linked one of their old article while we wait about how a takeover may not be a good thing... thanks guys!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 03, 2015, 11:13:17 AM
BREAKING NEWS: West Bromwich Albion have announced details of a takeover of the club.

The official announcement is being made at a press conference at the club.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/live-fridays-news-travel-weather-9556375#live-now-9556349-9579718 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/live-fridays-news-travel-weather-9556375#live-now-9556349-9579718)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 03, 2015, 11:14:02 AM
Radio wolves media is an absolute disgrace they've mentioned nowt about us at all.

Maybe they only report on £10 takeovers in these austere times.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on July 03, 2015, 11:15:01 AM
Every time Twitter says I have a new tweet, and it turns out to be bloomin Alan Sugar I huff. People in the office are looking at me weird.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 03, 2015, 11:16:35 AM
I'm so excited!! This is much better than Christmas.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 03, 2015, 11:16:42 AM
Yes, hopefully an owner who wants to take us back to former glories
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timbob78 on July 03, 2015, 11:17:15 AM
I have a twitter list of anyone on twitter (obvs) connected to West Brom if you're interested

https://twitter.com/timbloke/lists/west-brom (https://twitter.com/timbloke/lists/west-brom)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 03, 2015, 11:17:18 AM
Yes, hopefully an owner who wants to take us back to former glories

Hopefully one with deep enough pockets too as that's the only thing that could get us remotely there
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 03, 2015, 11:17:28 AM
Brum Mail has just linked one of their old article while we wait about how a takeover may not be a good thing... thanks guys!!

I can't stand the guy who wrote that. He is Mr negative with everything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 03, 2015, 11:17:32 AM
I have a twitter list of anyone on twitter (obvs) connected to West Brom if you're interested

https://twitter.com/timbloke/lists/west-brom (https://twitter.com/timbloke/lists/west-brom)

Awesome, thanks for that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 03, 2015, 11:17:44 AM
I'm going to have to say I've got IBS if I spend any longer in the loos today checking twitter.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on July 03, 2015, 11:18:44 AM
I hate to be a negative nelly, but I really hope we haven't been bought.

Past history suggests it doesn't end well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 03, 2015, 11:20:08 AM
So now we are going to have to wait for a press conference at the club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 03, 2015, 11:20:28 AM
I hate to be a negative nelly, but I really hope we haven't been bought.

Past history suggests it doesn't end well.

Don't be silly Nelly, I doubt if they would cal a press conference to tell us nothinh
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 03, 2015, 11:21:57 AM
I hope to god they haven't got us all on tender hooks for bugger all. >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 03, 2015, 11:22:08 AM
Yeah it's been a disaster at city, chelsea, leicester, man utd.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 03, 2015, 11:22:53 AM
Trying to sort out the video conference... JP has to beam in from Barbados or London, maybe another party from China. 

What else could IT issues out of their control refer too?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 03, 2015, 11:24:19 AM
Trying to sort out the video conference... JP has to beam in from Barbados or London, maybe another party from China. 

What else could IT issues out of their control refer too?
Have they tried switching it off and on again.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 03, 2015, 11:24:41 AM
Did you have to mention that night koren i was just getting over that.

I was on the verge of crying after being elated a few minutes before.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 03, 2015, 11:25:30 AM
Just a reminder to all of you desperate for this. Much like when you leave your missus for another woman or a job for another job...

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Admittedly it's a different shade but be careful what you wish for
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 03, 2015, 11:27:34 AM
I hate to be a negative nelly, but I really hope we haven't been bought.

Past history suggests it doesn't end well.


Selective past history perhaps but tell that to Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Southampton, PSG
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 03, 2015, 11:29:56 AM
The majority of the far east takeovers in this country have been a failure.

Perhaps it's time one of them bucked then trend. ( clutches them straws!  ;D )
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 03, 2015, 11:30:21 AM
Would actually be a clever move if this 'technical issue' was fake. The hype that is building is insane, all Albion fans are telling others to tune in. The website must be getting serious traffic at the moment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 03, 2015, 11:31:33 AM
I could have downed two pints by now, hurry up Albion please.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 03, 2015, 11:32:15 AM
I bet this Chinese blokes is called Wan Lun Gwait  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on July 03, 2015, 11:33:57 AM
There is a national minutes silence at 12. I would guess it won't be announced until after that now?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 03, 2015, 11:34:08 AM
john wake up we are about to be rich :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timbob78 on July 03, 2015, 11:34:26 AM
Victor Anichebe was handed the #wba statement and had to walk up the corridor and into the media suite but past the canteen

-Bill Howell

Harsh but fair  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 03, 2015, 11:36:22 AM
Victor Anichebe was handed the #wba statement and had to walk up the corridor and into the media suite but past the canteen

-Bill Howell

Harsh but fair  ;D

Or he could've broke down clutching his knee down the corridor
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 03, 2015, 11:38:22 AM
There is a national minutes silence at 12. I would guess it won't be announced until after that now?
That would make sense.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on July 03, 2015, 11:46:24 AM
I have to drive to Newcastle at 1pm so if it is not announced before then I will have to stop at every service station and check!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 03, 2015, 11:47:15 AM
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-news/2015/07/02/mystery-buyer-snaps-up-7-5m-estate/

I wonder.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on July 03, 2015, 11:47:22 AM
Could only happen to us couldnt it.

Announce an announcement for 10.30 to then delay it.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 03, 2015, 11:49:35 AM
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-news/2015/07/02/mystery-buyer-snaps-up-7-5m-estate/

I wonder.

Hmm yes could well be. But then I suppose if you have a buy to let property you wouldn't buy a house by it so you can keep an eye on it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 03, 2015, 11:52:35 AM
Official site is updating. Hold fire gents
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tipton Baggie on July 03, 2015, 11:53:16 AM
Big vic has sat on the statement as he tucked into his 6k calorie meal
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 03, 2015, 11:56:07 AM
They couldn't be so incredibly stupid as to start the press conference at 12.00?
Could they?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 03, 2015, 11:56:33 AM
Divine Wind to be appointed head of public relations.
 :).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 03, 2015, 11:56:48 AM
They couldn't be so incredibly stupid as to start the press conference at 12.00?
Could they?

Lepkowski's just said no
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 03, 2015, 11:57:14 AM
The OS had 'Update on club ownership'

So not 'WBA taken over by XYZ'...

EDIT: They've just taken the page down. Did get a screen grab though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on July 03, 2015, 11:57:40 AM
statement there but it doesnt work!

STOP THE TEASE ALBION
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 03, 2015, 11:57:54 AM
statement there but it doesnt work!

STOP THE TEASE ALBION

Annnd its gone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 03, 2015, 11:58:16 AM
They couldn't be so incredibly stupid as to start the press conference at 12.00?
Could they?

Steve Madeley has just tweeted to say that no matter what happens they will be breaking off to observe the minutes silence.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 03, 2015, 11:58:45 AM
It wound be nice if we could all observe the minutes silence at midday.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 03, 2015, 12:05:26 PM
That one minute silence has put everything in to perspective. Far more important things in life that stupid statements.

RIP to all those tragically killed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 03, 2015, 12:06:12 PM
That one minute silence has put everything in to perspective. Far more important things in life that stupid statements.

RIP to all those tragically killed.
Good post Aidan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 03, 2015, 12:06:49 PM
Amen
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 03, 2015, 12:07:42 PM
Good post Aidan.

Yes very good post.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 03, 2015, 12:07:53 PM
RIP to those holidaymakers
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: popbaggie28 on July 03, 2015, 12:09:30 PM
Good post Aidan.
Rip to all those that were tragically killed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 03, 2015, 12:09:42 PM
So Sad
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ian66 on July 03, 2015, 12:09:54 PM
Very moving pictures during the minutes silence on Sky News.

RIP all that lost their lives.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 03, 2015, 12:10:22 PM
So are we expecting a done deal or an announcement to say things are ongoing?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on July 03, 2015, 12:10:26 PM
OFFICIAL STATEMENT: Update on club ownership

Chairman Jeremy Peace today confirmed that exclusivity has been granted to one party interested in the purchase of West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd.
This follows discussions with several interested parties in the wake of his decision earlier this year to consider strategic options for the future development and legacy of the Club.
This process should be completed by the end of this month and in the meantime, the Club wishes to assure supporters preparations for the new season will remain unaffected.
The Chairman, Head Coach Tony Pulis, Chief Executive Mark Jenkins and Richard Garlick, the Director of Football Administration, have met to discuss and progress future transfer targets.
They remain in constant dialogue over the re-shaping of the first-team squad for the 2015/16 Barclays Premier League campaign.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 03, 2015, 12:12:34 PM
What a waste of an hour and a half.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on July 03, 2015, 12:12:42 PM
so it took them over an hour and a half to announce that.

Christ.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 03, 2015, 12:12:51 PM
100 minute wait for that!

Can only imagine how drawn out a transfer is...

They could have started working on that non-statement and still released at 10 past 12, including a minutes silence!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 03, 2015, 12:13:36 PM
You chose to wait to be fair
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on July 03, 2015, 12:13:53 PM
I'm proud of you Baggie Fans for getting your priorities right.

R.I.P. To all those that perished so tragically
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 03, 2015, 12:13:56 PM
90 mins to say..................................nothing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 03, 2015, 12:14:21 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-grant-takeover-exclusivity-9579573


Chinese consortium.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 03, 2015, 12:14:27 PM
So in a nutshell nothing significant has happened. The interested party could well still pull out of any deal....as i said don't be surprised if JP is still here in August.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mini gaardsoe on July 03, 2015, 12:16:28 PM
To summarise, an announcement has been made that an announcement may be made in a month.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 03, 2015, 12:16:42 PM
Back to this thread then at the end of the month I guess?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 03, 2015, 12:17:24 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-grant-takeover-exclusivity-9579573


Chinese consortium.

The BM just guessing. Nothing definite.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on July 03, 2015, 12:19:19 PM
Bill "worth the wait" Howell is most to blame for that anti-climax
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: joeymayo on July 03, 2015, 12:19:35 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-grant-takeover-exclusivity-9579573


Chinese consortium.

Chinese whispers more like!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: nick_wba on July 03, 2015, 12:23:06 PM
Bill "worth the wait" Howell is most to blame for that anti-climax

Was just about to write the same. Why do they do it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 03, 2015, 12:24:28 PM
It wouldn't have been so bad if the press release was released on time at 10.30 but to faff around for another 90 +minutes is absolutely madness.
If they faff around like that with transfers I can see why we loose out on so many prospective targets
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 03, 2015, 12:24:39 PM
So no guarantee of a sale and with JP's reputation for being intransigent this could all breakdown by the end of the month. Not quite sure whether this ongoing uncertainty will have effects on the playing side or not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 03, 2015, 12:26:04 PM
IF it is a Chinese group i hope we don't end up like a Blues or Cardiff.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 03, 2015, 12:27:39 PM
IF it is a Chinese group i hope we don't end up like a Blues or Cardiff.....

If it is a Chinese group you can forget the 'hot dogs'
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on July 03, 2015, 12:27:43 PM
So in a nutshell nothing significant has happened. The interested party could well still pull out of any deal....as i said don't be surprised if JP is still here in August.

A deal going to exclusivity is a very significant step. It means WBA have selected the best deal for the business and shareholders to the point where the deal in principle discussed to date would be acceptable to both the "sell" & "buy" side.
This is also where the potential buyers start racking up the serious legal costs that are incurred to complete a deal; you don't throw hundreds of thousands of pounds at legal costs for something the buyer is not confident of buying. Of course its not a 100% guarantee

The main issue for me is what are we going to do in the transfer market over the exclusivity period
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 03, 2015, 12:28:50 PM
What's with the "Waited hours for that" comments? We are being sold. That's as significant as it gets.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 03, 2015, 12:29:10 PM
It wouldn't have been so bad if the press release was released on time at 10.30 but to faff around for another 90 +minutes is absolutely madness.
If they faff around like that with transfers I can see why we loose out on so many prospective targets

This faffing around does seem to be a general problem in the way this club is run.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 03, 2015, 12:33:37 PM
Yes it's safe to assume that because of a hitch with whatever releasing the statement (from a nerdy little IT lad ballsing something up to a power failure to absolutely anything) that everything we do as a club is faffing and we dilly dally over transfers and contracts, generally on purpose try to make things harder for ourselves.

Once again some of you are utter geniuses
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on July 03, 2015, 12:36:35 PM
So no guarantee of a sale and with JP's reputation for being intransigent this could all breakdown by the end of the month. Not quite sure whether this ongoing uncertainty will have effects on the playing side or not.
Steve Madeley ‏@smadeley_star

To fans underwhelmed by statement, it effectively means the club is in the final throes of being taken over. Dry, but very significant. #wba
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 03, 2015, 12:37:38 PM
The statement pretty much confirms that we will be sold. Takeovers tend not to breakdown at this stage the price has to be pretty much agreed most of the stumbling blocks have been dealt with and often there are penalty clauses for withdrawal at this stage.

Peace has almost certainly sold the club and for better or for worse we are heading into a new era.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 03, 2015, 12:38:08 PM
Yes it's safe to assume that because of a hitch with whatever releasing the statement (from a nerdy little IT lad ballsing something up to a power failure to absolutely anything) that everything we do as a club is faffing and we dilly dally over transfers and contracts, generally on purpose try to make things harder for ourselves.

Once again some of you are utter geniuses

an some utterly gullable
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 03, 2015, 12:38:21 PM
I can see that on 1st August the headlines will read.

Proposed new owners pulled out of deal cause of negativity of WBA fans. :P

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 03, 2015, 12:39:41 PM
Steve Madeley ‏@smadeley_star

To fans underwhelmed by statement, it effectively means the club is in the final throes of being taken over. Dry, but very significant. #wba

And then what happens if the new owners aren't multi billion dollar guys who don't throw money at us but see it as a good business opportunity to make a tidy profit from a relatively low turnover, much like JP has. Bitch bitch bitch, cannot wait ::). Definitely be avoiding WBA forums then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 03, 2015, 12:41:17 PM
To summarise, an announcement has been made that an announcement may be made in a month.
to be fair, people have been complaining about the club not telling them anything. saying they'd prefer the club to come out and say "nothing is happening". I bet their ecstatic right about now  ::)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 03, 2015, 12:46:46 PM
Bill "worth the wait" Howell is most to blame for that anti-climax
Steve Madeley mentioned on the E&S updates that no one had been given a pre announcement statement. meaning they knew it was about the takeover, but nothing else.

Not that the papers care that much, theres been a significant traffic spike for them

.(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI--H54WsAAIN9C.jpg)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 03, 2015, 12:46:54 PM
to be fair, people have been complaining about the club not telling them anything. saying they'd prefer the club to come out and say "nothing is happening". I bet their ecstatic right about now  ::)

TBH I don't think there would have been a problem if the club had come out at 10.30 and said 'the deals been done and barring any last minute hitches were in the hands of new owners who at this moment in time we cannot name.'[
There wouldn't have been a problem, its all the smoke and mirrors that's rubbed people up the wrong way.
Forget the IT problems or whatever, why couldn't somebody walk into the media centre to assembled journalists and delivered the 12.15pm message at 10.30 am as planned.
Just another amateurish stab at being a big club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 03, 2015, 12:54:01 PM
The statement pretty much confirms that we will be sold. Takeovers tend not to breakdown at this stage the price has to be pretty much agreed most of the stumbling blocks have been dealt with and often there are penalty clauses for withdrawal at this stage.

Peace has almost certainly sold the club and for better or for worse we are heading into a new era.

Almost certainly now going through the FA's "fit and proper owners" test with terms agreed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on July 03, 2015, 12:58:50 PM
People moan that we are being kept in the dark, club provides update through a statement informing us that a takeover is imminent... people moan. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on July 03, 2015, 01:07:44 PM
Now that this has moved to the next phase of the process are we likely to find out anything about the prospective owners or will it still be a closely guarded secret?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 03, 2015, 01:09:36 PM
Now that this has moved to the next phase of the process are we likely to find out anything about the prospective owners or will it still be a closely guarded secret?

I would think that's the last official update until the deal is completed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 03, 2015, 01:13:10 PM
Almost certainly now going through the FA's "fit and proper owners" test
Given some of the dodgy people who've been allowed to take over clubs, I can't imagine the test will take very long to sort out!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 03, 2015, 01:19:44 PM
If we compare this to buying a house , then I guess the price is agreed, surveys are done and the lawyers are now finalising paperwork before completion. Buying a house, this process can take a month or two so one month for a 150m commercial takeover ain't bad.

I read is as saying a deal is done in principal so thanks and goodbye JP, onwards and upwards!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Cantello on July 03, 2015, 01:25:44 PM
Is anyone else more worried than excited?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mooncat on July 03, 2015, 01:25:58 PM
Quote
Almost certainly now going through the FA's "fit and proper owners" test
Given some of the dodgy people who've been allowed to take over clubs, I can't imagine the test will take very long to sort out!  ;D

I think it goes along the lines of

Q1. Do you want to own a football club ?
Yes/No

Q2. Do you promise that you'll be nice to the football club ?
Yes/No

That's it - you are fit and proper

Thank you
 :o :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 03, 2015, 01:36:24 PM
People moan that we are being kept in the dark, club provides update through a statement informing us that a takeover is imminent... people moan.

I, for one, am happy that the Club has at least said something rather than treating supporters like the proverbial mushrooms. I didn't expect anything else until the deal is completed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 03, 2015, 01:47:09 PM
Is anyone else more worried than excited?

I guess we will soon find out by the quality of player coming in. We have to trust JP on this one..... know where you are coming from though, I think the phrase is 'nervously excited'..........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 03, 2015, 01:48:45 PM
Now it gets interesting, legal eagles, warranties, guarantees etc. In addition using any downside information or risk to help the buyer reduce or amend the buying price- could still go "tits up" if there is intransigence from both parties during this final month 8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on July 03, 2015, 01:57:52 PM
Is anyone else more worried than excited?
If the new owner is come from China, I would be very worried. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: pennington on July 03, 2015, 01:58:42 PM
I tried a search ......... but what happens to the people who have still shares??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 03, 2015, 02:01:39 PM
Where's the 'finally we are getting rid of that evil tyrant Peace we've been banging on about for years' brigade?

Oh silly me, they're all bursting open bottles of Veuve Cliquot and high fiving.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 03, 2015, 02:02:05 PM
I tried a search ......... but what happens to the people who have still shares??

Its the holding company that Mr. Peace owns 100% that the new owners would take over.  That holding company owns 88% of WBA.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 03, 2015, 02:03:19 PM
Where's the 'finally we are getting rid of that evil tyrant Peace we've been banging on about for years' brigade?

Oh silly me, they're all bursting open bottles of Veuve Cliquot and high fiving.

Can we cut this stuff out then and stick to the topic instead of aiming petty pathetic comments at others, getting sick of it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 03, 2015, 02:23:35 PM
Its the holding company that Mr. Peace owns 100% that the new owners would take over.  That holding company owns 88% of WBA.

Whoever buys Peace out has to make the same offer to the other shareholders. If they then own 90% of the company the new owner would then have the right to buy out the the remainder of the shares.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: pennington on July 03, 2015, 02:37:17 PM
Whoever buys Peace out has to make the same offer to the other shareholders. If they then own 90% of the company the new owner would then have the right to buy out the the remainder of the shares.
Thanks I'll have to try and find it (them?)  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: east-stand-nick on July 03, 2015, 02:42:07 PM
Is anyone else more worried than excited?

I'm apprehensive as we're heading into the unknown from a stable position. We could have a great new owner, we could have some megalomaniac. Who knows?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on July 03, 2015, 03:06:50 PM
TBH I don't think there would have been a problem if the club had come out at 10.30 and said 'the deals been done and barring any last minute hitches were in the hands of new owners who at this moment in time we cannot name.'[
There wouldn't have been a problem, its all the smoke and mirrors that's rubbed people up the wrong way.
Forget the IT problems or whatever, why couldn't somebody walk into the media centre to assembled journalists and delivered the 12.15pm message at 10.30 am as planned.
Just another amateurish stab at being a big club.

I think they probably want to, but if its anything like deals I've been involved in any communication goes through layers of lawyers (buy and sell side) which somewhat reduces the clarity of the message
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on July 03, 2015, 03:09:37 PM
Now it gets interesting, legal eagles, warranties, guarantees etc. In addition using any downside information or risk to help the buyer reduce or amend the buying price- could still go "tits up" if there is intransigence from both parties during this final month 8)

Sounds like you have some experience in these types of things
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Noty Bromway on July 03, 2015, 03:24:02 PM
Now the quiz is who? :o

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_by_net_worth
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on July 03, 2015, 03:25:54 PM
If it is indeed a consortium, if may well be a group of less rich investors
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 03, 2015, 03:30:21 PM
From the official WBA web site


***West Bromwich Albion would like to apologies for the delay in the publication of this statement. This was owing to a technical issue beyond the Club's control***
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/official-statement-update-on-club-ownership-2523973.aspx#LiCe9htJiJZdXi2K.99
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 03, 2015, 03:39:44 PM
I'm apprehensive as we're heading into the unknown from a stable position. We could have a great new owner, we could have some megalomaniac. Who knows?
Personally, I prefer the new and unknown to the stable and stale. One thing is for sure, it's certainly out of our hands, so no good fretting about it. Think positive matey. 8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 03, 2015, 03:56:33 PM
Don't want to add a new level of obsession to proceedings but the Villa forums had a guy who worked at Birmingham airport reporting which private jets had landed there and who they belonged to - got themselves in a right state speculating it. Apparently it's easy to check. See if any Chinese private planes have landed there recently?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 03, 2015, 04:01:57 PM
Sounds like you have some experience in these types of things

You may draw that conclusion, but it may be speculation ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 03, 2015, 04:03:03 PM
If it's on Wikipedia, it MUST be true!!  ;D ;D ;D

"Wang Jianlin (Chinese: 王健林; pinyin: Wáng Jiànlín; born 1954) is a Chinese businessman and philanthropist. He serves as the Chairman of the Dalian Wanda Group, China's largest real estate developer, as well as the world's largest movie theater operator. He became the new owner of West Bromwich Albion F.C. on the 2nd July 2015."

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on July 03, 2015, 04:05:46 PM
Blown out of all proportion TBH, Could have been announced as a two liner without all the ballyhoo...just making us salivate for nowt.

Lot of people expected a lot more

Very badly handled, just like the kit launch video, underwhelming at best, total screw up at worst, media team need a right kick up the backside.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 03, 2015, 04:10:49 PM
If it's on Wikipedia, it MUST be true!!  ;D ;D ;D

"Wang Jianlin (Chinese: 王健林; pinyin: Wáng Jiànlín; born 1954) is a Chinese businessman and philanthropist. He serves as the Chairman of the Dalian Wanda Group, China's largest real estate developer, as well as the world's largest movie theater operator. He became the new owner of West Bromwich Albion F.C. on the 2nd July 2015."


I wish ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 03, 2015, 04:14:56 PM
I wish ;D
Maybe that's the "consortium". we are being taken over by the Dallian Wanda Group  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 03, 2015, 04:19:02 PM
so when will ground re developments or relocation start :-X
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on July 03, 2015, 04:24:35 PM
Blown out of all proportion TBH, Could have been announced as a two liner without all the ballyhoo...just making us salivate for nowt.

Lot of people expected a lot more

Very badly handled, just like the kit launch video, underwhelming at best, total screw up at worst, media team need a right kick up the backside.
Very unfair criticism IMO. The club simply informed the press there would be a statement with an update, they gave no indication what this would be (the local press confirmed this).

The subsequent delay (for reasons apparently out of their control) simply allowed a load of fans to wind themselves up and over hype the statement.

Fans wanted an update on the situation and they have got one, and a fairly significant one at that.

Not sure what there is to complain about in all honesty, other than the website crashing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on July 03, 2015, 04:30:44 PM
so when will ground re developments or relocation start :-X

Could move us to Devon  :D 8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on July 03, 2015, 04:36:02 PM
Blown out of all proportion TBH, Could have been announced as a two liner without all the ballyhoo...just making us salivate for nowt.

Lot of people expected a lot more

Very badly handled, just like the kit launch video, underwhelming at best, total screw up at worst, media team need a right kick up the backside.

It was the media who caused the stir, people like Bill Howell tweeting 'honestly guys this is going to be worth waiting for' as if he knew, showed himself up there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 03, 2015, 04:37:35 PM
I think we are looking for investors moreso than a buyer. Someone who can give more clout in the window.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: shortybaggies on July 03, 2015, 05:01:17 PM
Birmingham Airport just announced that there will be two weekly flights to Beijing, could be handy....  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 03, 2015, 05:28:53 PM
Can we cut this stuff out then and stick to the topic instead of aiming petty pathetic comments at others, getting sick of it.

Yet another dictatorship style comment Oldbury... Heaven forbid peoeple should express theirsef on a bloody message board ...  ::) *yawn* (start countdown to post removal for expressing view that is in contrast to hiarcy's view)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 03, 2015, 05:35:31 PM
The story about the Chinese billionaire buying the club must be true. I've just heard that we have bid for both Messi and Ronaldo. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 03, 2015, 05:50:53 PM
Someone said they could see Peace staying on in an overseeing role? I could see that happening.
Reading between the lines it seems the interest lies in West Bromwich Holdings Ltd, not West Bromwich Albion FC.
West Brom holdings have the majority of shares in West Brom FC, but not all of them.

My main criticism of Peace is that he interfere's with the team too much and some of his appointments have almost cost us our place in the prem.
But he excels as a businessman and we will never be in debt with him in charge.

He seems to have put the footballing side in the hands of Pulis, he has never given that much power to a manager/coach before, not even Hodgson. Why would he do this unless he knew he had the funds to finance Pulis's signing's?

This might be a dream of mine and i am barking up the wrong tree, but a manager who runs the team and buy's and sells, a financial investor to get the targets and Peace to oversee things and keep the club from overspending.

Now that i WOULD be happy with. We could compete in the transfer market and have someone with an astute mind in control of the club. It would also allay fears about a foreign owner taking complete control.

Is this just wishful thinking?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 03, 2015, 05:52:21 PM
Yet another dictatorship style comment Oldbury... Heaven forbid peoeple should express theirsef on a bloody message board ...  ::) *yawn* (start countdown to post removal for expressing view that is in contrast to hiarcy's view)

And here we go again. Yeah yawn yawn yawn

How is it a dictatorship style comment to ask people to stop making petty comments to other members ? It does nothing to help us run the board and creates plenty of arguments when others respond in the same way.

Maybe if some had access to the deleted posts board they would understand.

No, i'm not going to remove it, you made a comment i'm replying to it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 03, 2015, 06:20:21 PM
Am I jumping the gun booking Chinese lessons? ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 03, 2015, 06:32:21 PM
The players have been told not to do cart-wheels if they score....Just spring rolls.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 03, 2015, 06:51:45 PM
Can we cut this stuff out then and stick to the topic instead of aiming petty pathetic comments at others, getting sick of it.

Not as sick as me reading the petty vendettas, miss information and dissatisfaction with where the club is now compared to 10 years ago :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on July 03, 2015, 06:58:32 PM
Some are fantastic moaners on here, good news today club is basically sold and I'm guessing we will have three weeks or so in August to splash the cash under there new dictatorship maybe ?, need a few more signings before then of course I just don't know how much we will spend surely peace won't put money in just before he leaves ?.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 03, 2015, 07:14:38 PM
Not as sick as me reading the petty vendettas, miss information and dissatisfaction with where the club is now compared to 10 years ago :(

Not much we can do about that though unfortunately. We have to cater for those both sides of the discussions.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on July 03, 2015, 07:21:43 PM
A few observations.

I can't really think of a Far Eastern takeover that has ever been a great success. Leicester are about as good as I can think of, but the likes of Birmingham and Cardiff scare me. I hope Peace has made sure, the massive fan he claimed to be, that this consortium understand the culture of the club and English football in general. I know if I had millions I wouldnt put greed ahead of the club I love.

Secondly, the Daily Mail are reporting that the club were on the market for around £170+ million. A few years ago, Peace forced and aggresive share deal, taking shares if loyal fans for an amount that valued the club around £18 million was it? Not a bad rise in value in such a short time   ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 03, 2015, 07:24:52 PM
Not as sick as me reading the petty vendettas, miss information and dissatisfaction with where the club is now compared to 10 years ago :(

Just my opinion mate, am i not entitled to one without nasty personal comments?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 03, 2015, 07:27:23 PM
Yet another dictatorship style comment Oldbury... Heaven forbid peoeple should express theirsef on a bloody message board ...  ::) *yawn* (start countdown to post removal for expressing view that is in contrast to hiarcy's view)

In Oldbury's defence over my comment it was petty and pathetic and a dig at those people on here who hate Peace but aren't celebrating him being halfway out the door. He was right to pick me up on it, though it was a general comment not quoting or aimed at anyone in particular. Aside from being pretty outspoken when I see people spreading conjecture or mistruths, I do find myself almost always agreeing with Oldbury and 'the hierarchy' on here because I know how much pooh they have to trawl through on these more divisive topics.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 03, 2015, 07:32:23 PM
A few observations.

I can't really think of a Far Eastern takeover that has ever been a great success. Leicester are about as good as I can think of, but the likes of Birmingham and Cardiff scare me. I hope Peace has made sure, the massive fan he claimed to be, that this consortium understand the culture of the club and English football in general. I know if I had millions I wouldnt put greed ahead of the club I love.

Secondly, the Daily Mail are reporting that the club were on the market for around £170+ million. A few years ago, Peace forced and aggresive share deal, taking shares if loyal fans for an amount that valued the club around £18 million was it? Not a bad rise in value in such a short time   ::)

I too am slightly worried, bt, it was never in our hands. As for your second point 6 years in the prem will do that mate :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on July 03, 2015, 07:35:01 PM
Does anyone know what this takeover bid means regarding new players?. who is control JP or the new consortium.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 03, 2015, 07:37:44 PM
A few observations.

I can't really think of a Far Eastern takeover that has ever been a great success. Leicester are about as good as I can think of, but the likes of Birmingham and Cardiff scare me. I hope Peace has made sure, the massive fan he claimed to be, that this consortium understand the culture of the club and English football in general. I know if I had millions I wouldnt put greed ahead of the club I love.

Secondly, the Daily Mail are reporting that the club were on the market for around £170+ million. A few years ago, Peace forced and aggresive share deal, taking shares if loyal fans for an amount that valued the club around £18 million was it? Not a bad rise in value in such a short time   ::)

Put it this way, Peace is selling a company that makes £75M+ a year (and rising). You cut some costs, bump the club up a few league positions (we finished 8th with a less expensive squad remember) and your profits will go up too. Selling a company that makes tens of millions per year, with likely even more (let's say £90m a year with new deal) then £170m total for that money making potential isn't bad. Someone stays the length of time Peace has making that kinda money per year you've had a bargain.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 03, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
6 years in the prem in spite of Peace not because of him. Peace's idea of success is when we were yo yo ing, we would get in players for a pittance, then get relegated, sell the players for a profit, bank the parachute money then get in other players on freebies and loans and then repeat.
When we were in the top half of the table under Hodgson, (and don't forget we were still in a relegation battle in Feb when we hammered the Wolves), people mentioned europe.
Peace said he might not let us enter as we could not afford it.

What sort of ambition is that?  Peace himself sees us a a mid table championship club. He has done well for us but he has done far better out of us.
Peace is a businessman and runs us soley as a business, ie to make money for himself.

I see us as a great football club,that fell on hard times but is now back where it belongs, in the top flight,where we have spent most of our history.

West Bromwich Albion are in my heart, my sole, my blood, i am a third generation baggie. The club was here long long before i was born and hopefully will be long after i have gone.
Jeremy Peace won't be, and he will come nowhere near the affection i have for Albion.

I only want the best for this club and i feel Peace and his penny pinching ways have held us back over the last 10 years.

I would like an investor who will finance the team,give Pulis the first choice players he craves, not someone getting in players on the cheap and then telling the manager to get on with it.

£10 to see a trophy we hadn't won in 90 years, wouldn't let the players parade it round the pitch. The ejecting of the Astle family from the Hawthorns.
Disgrace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on July 03, 2015, 07:56:27 PM
On the subject of income/ profit . Last year was 86 million turn over . Now if I'm correct and this goes up by 30 million, we will have a income of let's say 115 million . If the club is sold for 150 million ,it's going to take a while for any profit . Unless we become a rich mans toy .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: saml30 on July 03, 2015, 08:01:44 PM
Just a pointer to those saying the club is basically sold (not having a go at anyone) but villa also have exclusivity to a buyer what seems an age ago and randy is still in charge of those lot.

I'm just hoping it's not the same consortium interested in both teams as someone will end up with egg on their face
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on July 03, 2015, 08:08:15 PM
6 years in the prem in spite of Peace not because of him. Peace's idea of success is when we were yo yo ing, we would get in players for a pittance, then get relegated, sell the players for a profit, bank the parachute money then get in other players on freebies and loans and then repeat.
When we were in the top half of the table under Hodgson, (and don't forget we were still in a relegation battle in Feb when we hammered the Wolves), people mentioned europe.
Peace said he might not let us enter as we could not afford it.

What sort of ambition is that?  Peace himself sees us a a mid table championship club. He has done well for us but he has done far better out of us.
Peace is a businessman and runs us soley as a business, ie to make money for himself.

I see us as a great football club,that fell on hard times but is now back where it belongs, in the top flight,where we have spent most of our history.

West Bromwich Albion are in my heart, my sole, my blood, i am a third generation baggie. The club was here long long before i was born and hopefully will be long after i have gone.
Jeremy Peace won't be, and he will come nowhere near the affection i have for Albion.

I only want the best for this club and i feel Peace and his penny pinching ways have held us back over the last 10 years.

I would like an investor who will finance the team,give Pulis the first choice players he craves, not someone getting in players on the cheap and then telling the manager to get on with it.

£10 to see a trophy we hadn't won in 90 years, wouldn't let the players parade it round the pitch. The ejecting of the Astle family from the Hawthorns.
Disgrace.
sorry dv there is not a lot I agree with on this . I have been very happy to be up there in the premiership . Peace has managed the club well   He was never going to be a sugar daddy was he . For every club that has been run has well has us I can show you a dozen that have been run by total crooks . Peace has done nothing illegal in his tenure and leaves us in brilliant shape . I will admit his aloofness and attitude may have been poor , but at the same time we don't know who we are going to get do we .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 03, 2015, 08:15:34 PM
As i said, i would not be unhappy to see him stay on in some capacity on the business side to make sure everything we do is legal and above board.

It's just his interference into the playing side, his ignorance in club traditions and his treatment of former legends and their families i despise him for.

Thompson gave us the foundations to build on, his fall out with Megson gave Peace the chance to seize control and boy did he take it.

But he is not a football man, we are just a cash cow to him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 03, 2015, 08:33:05 PM
Just a pointer to those saying the club is basically sold (not having a go at anyone) but villa also have exclusivity to a buyer what seems an age ago and randy is still in charge of those lot.

I'm just hoping it's not the same consortium interested in both teams as someone will end up with egg on their face

If I remember the villa story correctly the exclusivity deal was struck to allow the interested bidder a period to conduct due diligence. We went through that part of the process with 3 interested parties and one has  dropped out shortly after and two have been in discussions over the last few weeks and we now have one preferred bidder.   

Our sale is probably closer than the Villa's.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on July 03, 2015, 09:00:48 PM
6 years in the prem in spite of Peace not because of him. Peace's idea of success is when we were yo yo ing, we would get in players for a pittance, then get relegated, sell the players for a profit, bank the parachute money then get in other players on freebies and loans and then repeat.
When we were in the top half of the table under Hodgson, (and don't forget we were still in a relegation battle in Feb when we hammered the Wolves), people mentioned europe.
Peace said he might not let us enter as we could not afford it.

What sort of ambition is that?  Peace himself sees us a a mid table championship club. He has done well for us but he has done far better out of us.
Peace is a businessman and runs us soley as a business, ie to make money for himself.

I see us as a great football club,that fell on hard times but is now back where it belongs, in the top flight,where we have spent most of our history.

West Bromwich Albion are in my heart, my sole, my blood, i am a third generation baggie. The club was here long long before i was born and hopefully will be long after i have gone.
Jeremy Peace won't be, and he will come nowhere near the affection i have for Albion.

I only want the best for this club and i feel Peace and his penny pinching ways have held us back over the last 10 years.

I would like an investor who will finance the team,give Pulis the first choice players he craves, not someone getting in players on the cheap and then telling the manager to get on with it.

£10 to see a trophy we hadn't won in 90 years, wouldn't let the players parade it round the pitch. The ejecting of the Astle family from the Hawthorns.
Disgrace.

Mate I cant tell you how much I disagree with this, I have been in the directors box and seen his reactions and they are as you would expect of any Albion fan i.e. passionate. Do I care if he makes £100m? not in the slightest, good luck to him.

He has taken a club with little to an established prem club by whatever means and that should be rewarded. Training ground, players, staff, academy, stadium and infrastructure, he has done more than anyone IMO.

No way this will fall down now and best of luck to JP who in my opinion is the best WBA chairman ever.

Just sayin!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 03, 2015, 09:21:43 PM
Mate I cant tell you how much I disagree with this, I have been in the directors box and seen his reactions and they are as you would expect of any Albion fan i.e. passionate. Do I care if he makes £100m? not in the slightest, good luck to him.

He has taken a club with little to an established prem club by whatever means and that should be rewarded. Training ground, players, staff, academy, stadium and infrastructure, he has done more than anyone IMO.

No way this will fall down now and best of luck to JP who in my opinion is the best WBA chairman ever.

Just sayin!!
I think it's a minority who see him as a failure, whilst the majority will agree he's done a very good job.
With this in mind I hope he has some kind of role and say on matters but I very much doubt it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Do I not like Wolves on July 03, 2015, 09:21:56 PM
Mate I cant tell you how much I disagree with this, I have been in the directors box and seen his reactions and they are as you would expect of any Albion fan i.e. passionate. Do I care if he makes £100m? not in the slightest, good luck to him.

He has taken a club with little to an established prem club by whatever means and that should be rewarded. Training ground, players, staff, academy, stadium and infrastructure, he has done more than anyone IMO.

No way this will fall down now and best of luck to JP who in my opinion is the best WBA chairman ever.

Just sayin!!
Spot on well said - some people have very selective memories. Well done JP -thanks for stabilizing our club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on July 03, 2015, 09:32:19 PM
Put it this way, Peace is selling a company that makes £75M+ a year (and rising). You cut some costs, bump the club up a few league positions (we finished 8th with a less expensive squad remember) and your profits will go up too. Selling a company that makes tens of millions per year, with likely even more (let's say £90m a year with new deal) then £170m total for that money making potential isn't bad. Someone stays the length of time Peace has making that kinda money per year you've had a bargain.

I am unsure whether or not it is really a bargain - I suppose that depends on what sort of profit you are expecting personally.

My point however is more that we were clearly not worth 18 million when he pushed the share issue. He knew any sale would be in the hundreds of millions, not the thousands, and he severely short priced those fans who he knew would struggle to find the extra cash at the time of a recession to keep their shares.

That, was a disgraceful stabbing in the back of those fans who helped keep the club going in the 90's. The price in this sale has proved that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 03, 2015, 09:32:26 PM
At the end of the day i won't change my opinion of him anymore than some of you will change yours. All about opinions.
So to save the mods and admin having to keep trawling through the same old stuff, i will draw a line under it and wait until we have some news regarding takeover or investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 03, 2015, 09:37:28 PM
I don't know if anyones answered my question yet?

Is the budget going to be any better now? Or are we signing baird up again loll
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on July 03, 2015, 09:40:53 PM
We aren't going to know that just yet Baggie5. My hunch is no, we wont change our budget just yet. Most owners now will be looking at profit rather than a toy to put money in.

I think the best hope we have is that we end up with a consortium who install a few sensible and innovative businessmen into key roles and we prosper by making good deals like we did under Dan Ashworth, and how Swansea and Southampton are nowadays.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 03, 2015, 09:58:03 PM
I'll put this share issue to bed later - the missus works for an insolvency law firm and has access to company records, share holders and parent companies and will be able to definitely tell you how, where and what is owned by Mr Peace. IF I find evidence of foul play or questionable business practices I will of course report that.
Are you still intending to find out this info and report back?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on July 03, 2015, 10:01:07 PM
Are you still intending to find out this info and report back?
He has only had a week  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 03, 2015, 10:02:11 PM
My point however is more that we were clearly not worth 18 million when he pushed the share issue. He knew any sale would be in the hundreds of millions, not the thousands, and he severely short priced those fans who he knew would struggle to find the extra cash at the time of a recession to keep their shares.

That, was a disgraceful stabbing in the back of those fans who helped keep the club going in the 90's. The price in this sale has proved that.
That seems like a fair comment to me. I was one of those who lost my shares because I couldn't afford to buy more of them at that time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on July 03, 2015, 10:02:54 PM
Put it this way, Peace is selling a company that makes £75M+ a year (and rising). You cut some costs, bump the club up a few league positions (we finished 8th with a less expensive squad remember) and your profits will go up too. Selling a company that makes tens of millions per year, with likely even more (let's say £90m a year with new deal) then £170m total for that money making potential isn't bad. Someone stays the length of time Peace has making that kinda money per year you've had a bargain.

Have I missed the maths? 'The Company doesn't make 75m+ a year - however we are solvent within our means. What the club does offer is an incredibly stable platform for a wealthy group to expose their own agendas and prerogatives safe in the knowledge that it is a calculated risk - and funds that can be gambled to some extent. For any hugely wealthy consortium to view us a 'cash cow' is ridiculous however from a business point of view, owning a premier league club could provide a wonderful platform and stigma to a (quite frankly) colossal  business world in the Far East. Just a different view on things lads ! 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 03, 2015, 10:03:42 PM
Just my opinion mate, am i not entitled to one without nasty personal comments?

General comment, not aimed at any particular poster, just a culmination of negativity and conspiratorial postings, I don't think I made a nasty personal comment ;D


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 03, 2015, 10:33:51 PM
Just a few things ive come across on twitter...

Exciting reports from China about the proposed takeover at West Bromwich Albion tonight we're syndicating to the nationals for tomorrow.

In brief, reports suggest the takeover by Wei Jianjun could be completed as soon as Friday next week. #

: Jianjun's representatives have been in London since Monday with a view to reaching the exclusivity arrangement announced today.

If reports from China being reported in the nationals tomorrow are correct, Jianjun is expected to aim to forge business relations for his automotive business in the UK and Europe as well as promoting the club in Asia should the takeover be successful.
It is being reported that WBA Holdings had been keen that Jianjun be specifically named in the statement today but complications meant ,The statement remained anonymous in terms of the preferred bidder status, which is what caused a delay of some hours this morning.It must be stressed Jianjun and Great Wall Automotive have not formally gone on the record but a statement could go before the HKSE on Mon. There are unconfirmed reports one of the unsuccessful bids was Jersey-based and fronted by a former #wba player. This remains unconfirmed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 03, 2015, 10:39:29 PM
If it is him then it's the 10th richest man in China. Worth about 8b. I sense another Jonathon Liu scenario.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 03, 2015, 10:41:00 PM
Apparently Jp will keep 10% and a exec role for 12 months.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 03, 2015, 10:44:45 PM
If it is him then it's the 10th richest man in China. Worth about 8b. I sense another Jonathon Liu scenario.

Does that make him worth more than Chelsea's Abramovich?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 03, 2015, 10:45:50 PM
Think so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 03, 2015, 10:48:17 PM
Isn't Mike Ashley worth £3b?

Means nothing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 03, 2015, 10:49:57 PM
Football in China is about to massively take off so I am really excited about this potential takeover. With the rumours of austin, phillips etc I'm guessing that they are willing to back pulis. Also if money is spent before they arrive it won't be from peaces own money it will just be out of the profits so can't see the takeover affecting transfers at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on July 03, 2015, 10:52:50 PM
It's been put out about on Twitter by a chap called Terry Higham but has only ever had 20 tweets and 85 followers so not sure how much authority he has or if it's a wind up.

IF, and a big IF, it's true and coming out of China then it could really be exciting times !!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wei_Jianjun
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 03, 2015, 10:56:38 PM
I did a reverse image search on google with his twitter profile picture and it brought up this

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/herald-sun-chief-football-writer-mark-robinson-to-join-afl-stars-raising-money-during-movember/story-fni5ezdm-1226758219542

No Terry Hingham from West Midlands working for Caters. But a football writer from Australia called Mark Robinson.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 03, 2015, 10:57:33 PM
Someone is on the wind up and has decided to use this image to pass it off as credible.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on July 03, 2015, 11:03:50 PM
Someone is on the wind up and has decided to use this image to pass it off as credible.

Yep, looks about right unfortunately.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 03, 2015, 11:04:03 PM
I bet it's too hard to find a solid link with this bilionaire and tlcbet?

If the story about him being involved in our trip to china is true then it's an incredible story.

And John Trewick was wrong about "once you've seen one wall you've seen them all" as my wife and i went to beijing for our honeymoon in1999 and it's quite site and where we went upto it involved an ardious walk rather than a cable car.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 03, 2015, 11:23:51 PM
Taking it back to where it all began  ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCvLrMQHLJ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCvLrMQHLJ8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on July 03, 2015, 11:47:44 PM
Just the exclusivity at this stage won't think any otherwise until it has gone through.
Always sceptical of these foreign investors I don't want it to go like Birmingham city...

Jeremy peace is a wealthy man but not obscenely wealthy which it seems to take these days in football. However during his tenure the team has improved even if at times we have taken steps backward to go forward. The infastructire is miles better we have a state of the art academy and training facilities. Players are beginning to come through.

Consider that about 20 years ago maybe a little less this club was bleeding money and we had to sell kilbane and enzo just to stay a float says a lot. I understand people's criticisms of peace, but prudently he has progressed us or helped us progress, and deserves great credit because in the football money world he is a small fish but he has helped take us and keep us in the top league as across the board we are a lot healthier for it.

Roll on the new era, if we do have a new owner he will have his work cut out to better the club to the same extent as peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggy nerd on July 04, 2015, 12:22:30 AM
The Mirror claiming it is a Chinese investment company.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: socalbaggie on July 04, 2015, 12:28:56 AM
IF it is Wei Jianjun this article is an interesting read. Sixth richest man in China and at first glance seems to be a great businessman (don't they all though, huh) so if he is as wise as JP has proven to be with the business side of things but with obviously much deeper pockets it at least looks promising, on paper anyway.  I have very little to complain about when it comes to JP and how he has run the club. All you have to do is look at where we were prior and I don't mean just our league position but the club as a whole. Every owner makes a bad decision now and then they are human after all but we are so much better off in every way since he took over and that can't be denied!! As far as I'm concerned JP earned every ££ he has made as our Owner/Chairman. Maybe I'm easily impressed but to be preparing for our 6th straight season in the most watched and richest league in the world with 3 of those seasons finishing 8th, 10th and 11th, state of art training facilities a top class academy with a £3M annual budget, category 1 status and a recently unveiled £2.5M academy base and all this and more accomplished without any debt. Clubs you can argue with bigger names that are larger or at least our size have been promoted then relegated some relegated again and in some cases are struggling to exist. We're no Man U or Chelsea so I'm perfectly content to play and battle for the 9th to 15th places in the richest, fastest most watched league in the world!! I wasn't planning to go on this long so here is the link to the article I mentioned earlier.

http://m.scmp.com/business/companies/article/1609146/billionaire-profile-wei-jianjun-great-wall-motors
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 04, 2015, 12:38:55 AM
Are you still intending to find out this info and report back?

Aye I've got the company information including shareholders, mortgages, loans, accounts and risk reports on WBA Group, WBA Holdings, WBAFC Ltd., WBA Heritage and some companies that no longer trade.

Interesting to see what Kappa do with their 10% shares in holdings, effectively owning 10% of Peace's majority shareholdings in Group.

I'll post the PDF documents of all info somewhere for you all to peruse. One is 20+ pages listing every shareholder at the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 04, 2015, 02:13:46 AM
Right here goes:

For those who want to do their own research, the reports are here:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-C3MgynjIGkfnlWRWFvemFoVlNWUXRsY2puZnNiYjZxb19ubEtzeDZtMy1xQ0ZFUkFZck0&usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-C3MgynjIGkfnlWRWFvemFoVlNWUXRsY2puZnNiYjZxb19ubEtzeDZtMy1xQ0ZFUkFZck0&usp=sharing)


Club Hierarchy - Corporate Tree

1. West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd. - Top of the corporate tree.

Shareholders -

Jeremy Peace: 50,000 Ordinary shares @ £500 per share- 80% total shares - 95.75% Value (£25,000,000)

Kappa Ltd: 12,500 Ordinary 'A' shares @ £125 per share - 20% total shares - 6.25% Value (£1,562,500)


This would theoretically place the value of the club, based on shares alone of it's Ultimate Parent company at approx. £26.5m - though this is a distorted figure as shares have a face value. Consider the fact that the face value of the shares in Group (that some people on here still own and others sold) are worth £10, having Mr Peace offer thousands for individual shares basically assigns the value of a single share at 'whatever someone is willing to pay'. So as much as the face value of the company is £26.5m this does not take into account changes in the company's revenue and profit increases since the shares were issued - which are considerably more now and the price someone would be willing to pay for said shares.

2. West Bromwich Albion Group Ltd. Second branch of corporate tree. Parent: Holdings

This is the company those on here claim they have or had shares. The list of shareholders is 20 pages long. Importantly however:

584 shareholders including:
- West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd: 6,446 Shares - 67%
- Mr Geoffrey Leonard Hale: 1,001 Shares - 10.3%


Active Directors: Mr Mark Jenkins - Appointed 1st October 2010
Former Directors: Mr Jeremy Peace - 21st April 2010 - Resigned 21 May 2013

3. West Bromwich Albion Football Club Ltd. - 3rd Branch of the corporate tree - Parent: Group

This is the 'footballing department', the actual football club.

Shareholders - West Bromwich Albion Group: 2 Shares - 100%


Directors: Mr Mark Jenkins, Mr Jeremy Peace, Mr Adrian Donald Wright, Mr Richard Paul Garlick

Note: The company has had 13 mortgages, the latest in 2005. These include parachute payments from the FA, property mortgages on the training ground, social club.

Fully satisfied mortgages on The Hawthorns, land free for development.

4. West Bromwich Albion Heritage Ltd. - 4th branch of corporate tree - Parent: Group

As far as I can tell this is the branch of the company that owns the social clubs, various areas for development including some of the land around Halfords Lane.

Shareholders: West Bromwich Albion Group - 139,571 Ordinary Shares - 99.7%
                                                                  47 Other - 0.2%


_______________________________________________________________________________________
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on July 04, 2015, 02:57:23 AM
I reckon Hong Kong Pooey has been very quite on this thread and knows more than he / she is letting on  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on July 04, 2015, 03:01:59 AM
That's a very informative post PsalmXXIII.

I believe you said your wife researched and analysed it as well, so thank you to her.

Will need to take more time to absorb it all, but great post thanks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hong Kong Phooey on July 04, 2015, 03:17:04 AM
I reckon Hong Kong Pooey has been very quite on this thread and knows more than he / she is letting on  :D

I know nothing, my friend, absolutely nothing.

Always so much speculation at this time of year that I tend to view from afar until things actually start to happen.

Interesting and exciting times both on and off the field this summer though and I really do not think that JP is about to sell the club down the river!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 04, 2015, 08:19:16 AM
Any consortium that can stump up £150m for the club is going to feature some seriously wealthy individuals. But that does not mean that they are going to be throwing large parts of their personal wealth at the club.

 They could if they so chose run it as it is currently being run keep us in the Premier League let the TV contract drive the revenue stream and sell it on for more money to the next investor and banking a few million in dividends each year into the bargain.

I have no idea as to their intentions are but wealth does not equal additional investment. Wealth means they have the capacity to invest in the club but I guess having spent £150m on it in the first place they might believe that is enough of a commitment to be getting on with.       
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on July 04, 2015, 08:46:01 AM
If we are free of debt could the purchasers look to do what the glazers did at Man Utd and raise cash on the assets of the club to assist in their purchase of the club. Basically leverage the assets to the  max.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 04, 2015, 08:46:06 AM
Its a wind of change only time will tell if its for the better, I won't get too excited just yet.
From past takeovers some go ok but there's a catalogue of disasters both financial and PR.
Blues/Cardiff/Hull to name a few.
Expect any time soon to be reading about re-branding and name changes, its both worrying and exciting in equal measures for me
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 04, 2015, 09:17:00 AM
I hope we don't get rebranded. Our brand and name has been good for 136 years. Even Don Howe tried and failed to shorten our name to Albion.
But i expect new owners to want some changes for their money,something that reflects their ownership. :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 04, 2015, 09:43:33 AM
If we are free of debt could the purchasers look to do what the glazers did at Man Utd and raise cash on the assets of the club to assist in their purchase of the club. Basically leverage the assets to the  max.

Yes nothing to stop them doing that other than Peace might sell it to them on that basis. The Glazers were pretty astute (I know United fans hate them so I quite like them) but they did it with a global brand and given the strength of the club it would pretty much always be in the Premier League the debt, would only be an issue if they were relegated.

Unfortunately we are not in that position and because of the threat of relegation I would be concerned if we were being bought in a way that was heavily leveraged. Using United as a benchmark whose net debt is currently around 60% of turnover and their interest payments about 6% of turnover anything above £50m as debt and interest payments of £5m would be worrying. The less debt involved the happier I will be.

Debt in itself is not a bad thing and if the same leverage was applied to the club as investment in facilities that generated income that served the debt it would not be a bad thing provided that investment was well though out. Incidentally throwing money at players and their agents is not a great investment and I would be horrified if we were signing players using debt to pay for them. 

With regard to re branding I hope the owners have observed the abject failure of other such exercises and draw their own conclusions i.e. leave well alone otherwise what you have just bought for £150m won't be worth a mess of beans. 

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 04, 2015, 10:21:56 AM
Well if new owners are interested in progressing the Albion then what we do in transfer window should gauge their ambition. On another note will we be seeing a couple of Chinese players in the near future.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 04, 2015, 10:44:07 AM
Didn't JP do the same thing as the Glaziers, twice?  Or am I confused again...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on July 04, 2015, 10:48:57 AM
Yes nothing to stop them doing that other than Peace might sell it to them on that basis. The Glazers were pretty astute (I know United fans hate them so I quite like them) but they did it with a global brand and given the strength of the club it would pretty much always be in the Premier League the debt, would only be an issue if they were relegated.

Unfortunately we are not in that position and because of the threat of relegation I would be concerned if we were being bought in a way that was heavily leveraged. Using United as a benchmark whose net debt is currently around 60% of turnover and their interest payments about 6% of turnover anything above £50m as debt and interest payments of £5m would be worrying. The less debt involved the happier I will be.

Debt in itself is not a bad thing and if the same leverage was applied to the club as investment in facilities that generated income that served the debt it would not be a bad thing provided that investment was well though out. Incidentally throwing money at players and their agents is not a great investment and I would be horrified if we were signing players using debt to pay for them. 

With regard to re branding I hope the owners have observed the abject failure of other such exercises and draw their own conclusions i.e. leave well alone otherwise what you have just bought for £150m won't be worth a mess of beans.

That's a good point about debt. It's like if you have £100k in the bank earning 0.5% but if you took that and bought a property for say £200K with a £100 k of debt plus your cash and rented it out for say £10k a year then you are getting a return of 5% on the property. Much better than the 0.5%. Invested wisely can be a good thing. Agents aren't a good investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 04, 2015, 11:01:58 AM
With nothing being announced until the end of the month...I think I may go into "snooze" mode.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 04, 2015, 11:06:54 AM
I think the people we sign, will be a clear indication of whether the new owners are wealthy or not.

Like JP said team recruitment remains uneffected. So that must mean its been discussed with the new party.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 04, 2015, 11:13:08 AM
Right here goes:

For those who want to do their own research, the reports are here:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-C3MgynjIGkfnlWRWFvemFoVlNWUXRsY2puZnNiYjZxb19ubEtzeDZtMy1xQ0ZFUkFZck0&usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-C3MgynjIGkfnlWRWFvemFoVlNWUXRsY2puZnNiYjZxb19ubEtzeDZtMy1xQ0ZFUkFZck0&usp=sharing)


Club Hierarchy - Corporate Tree

1. West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd. - Top of the corporate tree.

Shareholders -

Jeremy Peace: 50,000 Ordinary shares @ £500 per share- 80% total shares - 95.75% Value (£25,000,000)

Kappa Ltd: 12,500 Ordinary 'A' shares @ £125 per share - 20% total shares - 6.25% Value (£1,562,500)


This would theoretically place the value of the club, based on shares alone of it's Ultimate Parent company at approx. £26.5m - though this is a distorted figure as shares have a face value. Consider the fact that the face value of the shares in Group (that some people on here still own and others sold) are worth £10, having Mr Peace offer thousands for individual shares basically assigns the value of a single share at 'whatever someone is willing to pay'. So as much as the face value of the company is £26.5m this does not take into account changes in the company's revenue and profit increases since the shares were issued - which are considerably more now and the price someone would be willing to pay for said shares.

2. West Bromwich Albion Group Ltd. Second branch of corporate tree. Parent: Holdings

This is the company those on here claim they have or had shares. The list of shareholders is 20 pages long. Importantly however:

584 shareholders including:
- West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd: 6,446 Shares - 67%
- Mr Geoffrey Leonard Hale: 1,001 Shares - 10.3%


Active Directors: Mr Mark Jenkins - Appointed 1st October 2010
Former Directors: Mr Jeremy Peace - 21st April 2010 - Resigned 21 May 2013

3. West Bromwich Albion Football Club Ltd. - 3rd Branch of the corporate tree - Parent: Group

This is the 'footballing department', the actual football club.

Shareholders - West Bromwich Albion Group: 2 Shares - 100%


Directors: Mr Mark Jenkins, Mr Jeremy Peace, Mr Adrian Donald Wright, Mr Richard Paul Garlick

Note: The company has had 13 mortgages, the latest in 2005. These include parachute payments from the FA, property mortgages on the training ground, social club.

Fully satisfied mortgages on The Hawthorns, land free for development.

4. West Bromwich Albion Heritage Ltd. - 4th branch of corporate tree - Parent: Group

As far as I can tell this is the branch of the company that owns the social clubs, various areas for development including some of the land around Halfords Lane.

Shareholders: West Bromwich Albion Group - 139,571 Ordinary Shares - 99.7%
                                                                  47 Other - 0.2%


_______________________________________________________________________________________
From memory isnt Kappa JP´s company? Have tried to find info on this company before and couldnt but it isnt the sports wear company
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 04, 2015, 11:15:40 AM
I think the people we sign, will be a clear indication of whether the new owners are wealthy or not.

Like JP said team recruitment remains uneffected. So that must mean its been discussed with the new party.



Not so sure myself. Until the deal to takeover the club is officially done the budget wont change significantly if at all. We wouldn't suddenly start spending more just because a potential new owner has a few quid, you don't spend someone else's money.

I do worry that people are maybe expecting too much, we may loosen the purse strings a little once a takeover is completed but even then I doubt we will suddenly become a club that spends a fortune on players as FFP will keep us from doing that. It may bring us in line with a few other clubs we haven't been able to compete with for a while financially though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 04, 2015, 11:35:42 AM
Well if new owners are interested in progressing the Albion then what we do in transfer window should gauge their ambition. On another note will we be seeing a couple of Chinese players in the near future.

I don't think it will. The budget will have been agreed with the bidders and I would therefore assume that is fixed in the short term. I hope that they do not come in and try to make their mark by throwing money at players because they nearly always ends badly.

Equally I doubt whether we will be getting an influx of Chinese players they aren't generally good enough and that would be another way for the new owners to actively destroy the asset that they have just spent £150m on. Until we know otherwise I will credit them with a little bit of sense
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 04, 2015, 11:45:20 AM
According to  daily mirror it's a chinese consortium that were al interested in the dark side from witton but they were upset when randy gave exclusivety to a usa consortium.

I'm not happy with a consortium as it suggests they are in it just f or a profit but, what can you do  when peace wants to sell, no one forced him out, he chose to sell.

I just hope he did have our best interests at heart when selling.

Personally, i would have gone for ths blues at around £25m spend another £25M on players and got them promoted.

I think blues are in a 2 year exclusive period with another chinese group who have paid or
loaned them 5m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 04, 2015, 12:12:54 PM
I honestly believe Peace wanted to sell because he knew that he knew he could take us no farther, and when you stand still you end up going back.
A new owner could push us on that extra bit, but again no guarantees that they will.

I don't believe stuff i read in the Mirror or any papers tbh, we will only know when the club make an official statement.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 04, 2015, 12:30:33 PM
Disagree, how can you take us no further with all the extra tv money coming in plus the £20M we should have in our bank account from profits.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RuncornBaggie on July 04, 2015, 12:30:57 PM
I am with you on that, he realises that he cant take us forward any further than he has!

Also he has the clubs best interests at heart, along with making some sheckles for himself, we would all make money for ourselves as well.  What I mean by that is, he wouldn't just sell the club to anyone, I think he will make sure that it is all in the clubs best interests. 

I have never met the man though but believe he has done a fantastic job with the club.  But I think like you, he has taken us as far as he can. 



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on July 04, 2015, 12:46:12 PM
Disagree, how can you take us no further with all the extra tv money coming in plus the £20M we should have in our bank account from profits.
All the extra TV money just inflates prices and whilst everybody gets their share it isn't going to move us up in the Premier League pecking order. It may distance us further from the Championship,  but we were doing that anyway. Clubs come up, clubs go down. Even in a supposed "bad year" we finished 13th.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 04, 2015, 12:51:38 PM
Budget shouldn't be a problem - nor should buying and selling players. I doubt a Chinese consortium has any real soft spot for any players they want to keep or bring in to the club and so shouldn't have problems with us signing players on sensible deals until then. After all, it's the clubs money being spent, not theirs. For them to have a problem with a man who has run the club safely for 14 years and knows what he's doing would seem a little naive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 04, 2015, 01:33:58 PM
Budget shouldn't be a problem - nor should buying and selling players. I doubt a Chinese consortium has any real soft spot for any players they want to keep or bring in to the club and so shouldn't have problems with us signing players on sensible deals until then. After all, it's the clubs money being spent, not theirs. For them to have a problem with a man who has run the club safely for 14 years and knows what he's doing would seem a little naive.

Peace will never buy players on the never never. Any players we buy before the takeover will be from the pot we have now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 04, 2015, 01:37:22 PM
My concern is buying players now we might not need later. Such as the McClean signing. On the other hand if we wait until the takeover which could be up to a month,then we may be too late to sign Pulis's  first choice targets.

To say any of this will not affect our transfer activity is silly and naive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 04, 2015, 02:04:14 PM
1. The budget on wages and fees is already agreed and whoever is buying us is buying us on that basis. That will either buy certain players or it won't and that will not change post takeover. It might in the future but not this window 

2. The person who is picking the targets is Pulis, and that will be the same before and after the takeover.

3. If we sign a player we have to assume that Pulis wants them and is planning to use them.

No Peace will not buy players in anticipation of future success nor income that is not guaranteed, the new owners might have deep enough pockets to engage in that practice but we should be very wary of it.

Unless something happens to the contrary, I think you have to accept that the first 3 propositions as being the most likely and therefore accept that the club is being run as business as usual.       
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 04, 2015, 02:18:46 PM
Peace has always bought players as per the norm in football with the fee paid spread over a number of years.

It's quite obvious what he's done by declaring an average profit over the last 2 years of £10m, this without the new tv revenue.

The new owners will expect the same return on their investment every year.

That's why you get all these consortiums from  china and usa looking at prem clubs.

Like at Derby now, they are made up of with lots of millionaires rather than billionaires who basically want to be in the prem and make sure you stay there so they can take out their £10m or so every year, which is guaranteed every year from tv revenue.

The USA groups cannot buy any usa sports franchises as they cost a whole lot more. In fact i think the NFL is the only tv deal bigger than the prem's.

That's why you have the fenway group at liverfool and that ron jeremy lookalike at fulham.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 04, 2015, 09:24:30 PM
Even if we had a billionaire, I think our transfer targets and strategy for this window would remain exactly the same. It would be January when you'd see the real targets being revealed, until then I assume the same set of targets will be analysed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on July 04, 2015, 10:30:13 PM
According to  daily mirror it's a chinese consortium that were al interested in the dark side from witton but they were upset when randy gave exclusivety to a usa consortium.

I'm not happy with a consortium as it suggests they are in it just f or a profit but, what can you do  when peace wants to sell, no one forced him out, he chose to sell.

I just hope he did have our best interests at heart when selling.

Personally, i would have gone for ths blues at around £25m spend another £25M on players and got them promoted.

I think blues are in a 2 year exclusive period with another chinese group who have paid or
loaned them 5m.

Most investors would be in it for profit. Its only the super rich exceptions such as the Oligarchs that arent
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 04, 2015, 10:38:26 PM
It's wang jianlin!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on July 04, 2015, 10:40:22 PM
I've heard that it's chinese which seems to be common knowledge and that the new owner does have a lot of money. Not wang jianlin however

Make your mind up.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 04, 2015, 10:46:14 PM
Make your mind up.  ;)

Haha, that's from tonight's mirror, I'd be over the moon if it is
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 04, 2015, 10:49:36 PM
Haha, that's from tonight's mirror, I'd be over the moon if it is
Why would it be a 'consortium' though if it was him?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 04, 2015, 10:51:07 PM
Why would it be a 'consortium' though if it was him?

It's the wanda group, which is owned by jianlin
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 04, 2015, 10:56:00 PM
It's the wanda group, which is owned by jianlin
Oh right , thanks mate, would that be seen as a consortium ? (My business knowledge isn't great ;D)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 04, 2015, 11:13:33 PM
Wanda group named on the mirror website  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 04, 2015, 11:15:00 PM
Wanda group named on the mirror website  :o

Interesting.. :D

Hope its true..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 04, 2015, 11:21:31 PM
Wanda group named on the mirror website  :o

I've just read that in the Mirror website too, you'd think it would be being reporting more widely; it's a pretty big deal!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 04, 2015, 11:27:36 PM
I've just read that in the Mirror website too, you'd think it would be being reporting more widely; it's a pretty big deal!
If it was the Independent I'd be excited, but it's The Mirror...is there actually any substance to it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 04, 2015, 11:27:51 PM
Link anyone??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: saml30 on July 04, 2015, 11:29:31 PM
I've just read that in the Mirror website too, you'd think it would be being reporting more widely; it's a pretty big deal!

I can't find it on there? Where abouts is it? Can you post a link
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 04, 2015, 11:33:15 PM
I can't find it on there? Where abouts is it? Can you post a link
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-brom-running-marathon-every-6001881 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-brom-running-marathon-every-6001881)

The Dalian Wanda Group is looking to invest in an English Premier League club, having already acquired a 20 per  cent stake in Spanish side Atletico Madrid.

The property company, owned by billionaire Wang Jianlin, has been negotiating with owner Jeremy Peace for the past four months.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 04, 2015, 11:35:53 PM
Please be true!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 04, 2015, 11:40:53 PM
And we`ll get around the fair play thing.... Sepp blatters nephew runs one of the Wanda groups companies;-)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 05, 2015, 12:19:42 AM
Please be true!!!
IF it is him, then that means Randy Lerner possibly knocked him back?
Wake me up I'm dreaming
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 05, 2015, 12:30:27 AM
It is suggested that Wanda are looking to invest in a Premier League club. The Albion might be being bought by a Chinese consortium. Therefore Wanda are buying the Albion. Maybe or possibly it is pure kite flying by the Mirror. I am inclined toward the latter.

Equally just because an owner is rich does not mean they will throw millions at the club, I don't think much has changed at Atletico since they got involved.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 05, 2015, 01:29:42 AM

Equally just because an owner is rich does not mean they will throw millions at the club, I don't think much has changed at Atletico since they got involved.

Could they change much only having a 20% stake in Atletico?

I hope it is this group really as at least they have some experience of being involved with the running of a football club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 05, 2015, 01:57:54 AM
Speculation by the Mirror journalists again.
You never know though.
They are like we poor mortals... Guessing and hoping.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on July 05, 2015, 06:26:21 AM
Deja Vu...we are all guessing , speculating and hoping  for the high profile preferred appointment (Dalian Wanda Group / Tim Sherwood)and of course we will then be shocked as we get some totally unknown Australian Supermarket Chain/Alan Irvine.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 05, 2015, 08:41:35 AM
Could they change much only having a 20% stake in Atletico?

I hope it is this group really as at least they have some experience of being involved with the running of a football club.

Good point but I still think this is not an Abramovich type situation. Yes, Wang Jianlin is hugely wealthy but what is clear is that if (and in my mind that is still a very big if) it is Wanda we are a very small part of a corporate empire which is not going to be pouring countless millions into signing players etc.. without any real prospect of financial return. This is a business proposition not a trophy purchase. I think those people who are running around with that notion need to take a deep breath and think Peace mark II one with deeper pockets maybe but still very hard headed and focussed on club as a business.

Deja Vu...we are all guessing , speculating and hoping  for the high profile preferred appointment (Dalian Wanda Group / Tim Sherwood)and of course we will then be shocked as we get some totally unknown Australian Supermarket Chain/Alan Irvine.....

At an asking price of £150m whoever buys us is going to be rich very rich and the assumption that Wanda is going to be good and a somewhat less wealthy owner is going to be bad is flawed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 05, 2015, 09:14:33 AM
I have done my research on Wanda group, let me tell you all now....

This guy is hell bent on being the biggest, the best and the most well known company in the world! He HAS to be the best in everything he does.

He owned a Chinese football club for 6 years, won 4 titles and then pulled out when he heard about match fixing in China.

This guy has morals and class, and if I'm honest I didn't expect any less from Jeremy! Just a gut feeling I have but I think he may have just given us all one hell of a goodbye present
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 05, 2015, 09:31:16 AM
Whoever would have thought we'd get Atletico Madrid as our feeder club!  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 05, 2015, 10:11:20 AM
Until it's confirmed we can't get over excited. I do believe that the Wanda Group are the consortium. They made a statement of expanding their empire and purchasing a football club. Peace has always got us a good deal and this could be his legacy. He has always believed in progressing the club. Very interesting few weeks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 05, 2015, 10:13:47 AM
Until it's confirmed we can't get over excited. I do believe that the Wanda Group are the consortium. They made a statement of expanding their empire and purchasing a football club. Peace has always got us a good deal and this could be his legacy. He has always believed in progressing the club. Very interesting few weeks

I do agree we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves , but if it is the wanda group , I do feel they will run the club in the right way and we will continue to progress
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 05, 2015, 10:36:43 AM
Who ever ends up buying us i hope NO i PRAY that they have a 5 year plan & not a buy all one season thing, i would sooner see us upgrade season by season the stronger the roots the healthier the tree.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 05, 2015, 10:57:04 AM
Well lets hope it is the Wanda Group because it will be an interesting year indeed for us.

Not expecting huge amounts thrown about but I do see investment and that could see us push on and push the boat out a little more quality signings and compete at wage level with others up the league bit like the way stoke are competing for players
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 05, 2015, 11:24:03 AM
IF it is Wanda and IF it's the last act of Jeremy Peace, then i will never make another negative comment about him again.
To be honest i have always been dubious about us being for sale, i always felt it was a gesture by him to take away the flak from him.Like the last time we were for sale.

But a lot of things have started to make sense, i think Peace had got a buyer last time, a Russian, but got his fingers burnt at the last minute. This would explain the silence from the club this time around.
Also for the club to go public at this point in time, you would assume it's a done deal, as some were saying weeks ago.

IF they were knocked back by the Villa, then more power to our bow, because that would put us in direct competition with them, and the owners would make it a priority not to play second fiddle to them.

A lot of IF's, but i am getting a little excited at the possibilities now, still won't let myself get carried away though until it's official.

Fingers crossed folks, this could be lift off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 05, 2015, 11:54:14 AM
Good post mate. Think the silence is a good thing. I also think if it was a tin pot consortium it would have leaked by now. IF it is them it may be a gradual investment but I sense they will want to make their mark
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on July 05, 2015, 12:32:25 PM
From what a friend of mine who does business and lives in China, tells me.
They take a long-term view of planning?
Could be very good for us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 05, 2015, 12:33:36 PM
Apparently he's been named as the buyer by the times as well. Can anyone confirm?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 05, 2015, 12:39:59 PM
Could the identity of the buyer being revealed scupper the deal possibly at this stage or not?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 05, 2015, 12:44:57 PM
From what a friend of mine who does business and lives in China, tells me.
They take a long-term view of planning?
Could be very good for us?
As others have said, Wanda is basically a mega-investment group. For simplicity, say you have Duncan Bannatyne from Dragons Den. He doesn't really run any of his businesses, and instead he just has a load of investments tied up in businesses. For instance, the Wanda group owns literally 1000+ cinemas in the world, and most of China's housing market.
In short, most of the groups investments are very 'safe' from what I gather (property etc..) so in that sense it's not like he's spending billions on red or black.

As others have also said, this will mean we're not like City/Chelsea; we won't be spending crazy amounts, not in the beginning at least. I imagine it would be a similar setup to Southampton/Arsenal though which is obviously a lot better than our current scenario.

That is of course, IF it is Wanda.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 05, 2015, 12:46:51 PM
Could the identity of the buyer being revealed scupper the deal possibly at this stage or not?

Yes I had been wondering that too. Of course the speculation could all be wrong if and when we officially know, should the purchase be completed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Downunder Stripes on July 05, 2015, 12:52:13 PM
Could the identity of the buyer being revealed scupper the deal possibly at this stage or not?
Unti the buyer or the seller confirm, it is irrelevant who does the revealing
 be that The Times, The Mirror or some bloke on a footy forum
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on July 05, 2015, 12:57:16 PM
I hope that after all the hype , this is true . Little old Sandwell town , owned by the richest man in China . Rather beats the bhatti brothers doesn't it ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 05, 2015, 01:03:24 PM
Think we should re name this thread 'IF'  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 05, 2015, 01:04:42 PM
Could the identity of the buyer being revealed scupper the deal possibly at this stage or not?

That's why i said it would be unusual for albion to make the exclusivity statement on Friday if it wasn't already a done deal.
Just a few loose ends to tie up i would imagine.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 05, 2015, 01:08:57 PM
I hope that after all the hype , this is true . Little old Sandwell town , owned by the richest man in China . Rather beats the bhatti brothers doesn't it ?

IF  ;) it's the Wanda group, then i think our little jealous neighbour's would have to find a new nickname for our ground. They couldn't very well keep calling it the poorthorns.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 05, 2015, 01:38:07 PM
Ha ha it will be called The Golden Dragon'  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 05, 2015, 01:54:36 PM
Can't help thinking there's something fishy about this Wanda Group.
 ;).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 05, 2015, 02:14:15 PM
Can't help thinking there's something fishy about this Wanda Group.
 ;).

Boom and indeed boom  ;) :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 05, 2015, 03:09:04 PM
http://thebaggiesway.com/2015/07/05/new-owner-of-west-brom-revealed/

If true, could revealing his identity, throw a spanner in the works? If so, I wonder if it's some rivals trying to ruin the deal for us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 05, 2015, 03:19:22 PM
http://thebaggiesway.com/2015/07/05/new-owner-of-west-brom-revealed/

If true, could revealing his identity, throw a spanner in the works? If so, I wonder if it's some rivals trying to ruin the deal for us

Doubt it as it's about as offical as this forum. as long as nothing comes from the club It's just speculation
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 05, 2015, 03:30:44 PM
http://thebaggiesway.com/2015/07/05/new-owner-of-west-brom-revealed/

If true, could revealing his identity, throw a spanner in the works? If so, I wonder if it's some rivals trying to ruin the deal for us

Their stories come from the same places as people who post links to stories on here, that one comes from Sunday People. Plenty of guessing, speculation the lot at the moment, may be something in it, may not be. Truth will out in good time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 05, 2015, 03:40:52 PM
Their stories come from the same places as people who post links to stories on here, that one comes from Sunday People. Plenty of guessing, speculation the lot at the moment, may be something in it, may not be. Truth will out in good time.
So far, I believe there's 3 reporters who have individually reported it:
- The Mirror
- The Sunday People
- A local journo (who mostly writes for Blues)

It's still too little for me to believe, but if a few more newspapers/journalists start reporting it without referencing any of the above, then it will look very realistic.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: devonbaggiecjaj on July 05, 2015, 03:45:03 PM
So far, I believe there's 3 reporters who have individually reported it:
- The Mirror
- The Sunday People
- A local journo (who mostly writes for Blues)

It's still too little for me to believe, but if a few more newspapers/journalists start reporting it without referencing any of the above, then it will look very realistic.

Surely if one of the richest people in the world was being linked with somethng he was not, he would ensure the rumours are corrected and removed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 05, 2015, 03:46:48 PM
Surely if one of the richest people in the world was being linked with somethng he was not, he would ensure the rumours are corrected and removed


You better renew that ticket of yours :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charliemike on July 05, 2015, 03:50:22 PM
If you google this chap wang jianlin , you will realise that he is a seriously rich and powerful man . Recent news has indicated he wishes to spread his sporting empire globally . BUT WE HAVE TO WAIT . Could be great times ahead .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tennant1wba on July 05, 2015, 03:51:03 PM
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/dalian-wanda-group-linked-with-west-brom-takeover-4084834
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: devonbaggiecjaj on July 05, 2015, 03:57:39 PM

You better renew that ticket of yours :P

I will spending too much time taking the boy to the races i think
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 05, 2015, 04:07:27 PM
So all we know is that it's a Chinese person and that they are rich?
So people putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5?

Who else in China is on the rich list, who could be interested in buying a football team?


Does add up though that it's wang, as he wants to buy a football team, interested in a premiership team, is mega rich, is Chinese and shown interest in past in other teams in prem. also remounted to have been turned away or lost interest in villa.... Next team near them is us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 05, 2015, 04:12:26 PM
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/dalian-wanda-group-linked-with-west-brom-takeover-4084834


Can you imagine the glory hunters this will attract :-X
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 05, 2015, 04:16:02 PM
So all we know is that it's a Chinese person and that they are rich?
So people putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5?

Who else in China is on the rich list, who could be interested in buying a football team?


Does add up though that it's wang, as he wants to buy a football team, interested in a premiership team, is mega rich, is Chinese and shown interest in past in other teams in prem. also remounted to have been turned away or lost interest in villa.... Next team near them is us

Neil Moxley leaked Wang's name
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 05, 2015, 04:22:05 PM
So if it is Wang who of you not got a season ticket will go out and buy one before you are put on a waiting list :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 05, 2015, 05:02:08 PM
So if it is Wang who of you not got a season ticket will go out and buy one before you are put on a waiting list :)
Now wouldn't that be something a waiting list for season tickets. Hope they look after the ones who bought them in the dark times.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on July 05, 2015, 05:22:54 PM
Neil Moxley leaked Wang's name

Neil Moxley has very good links to the club and is usually pretty near the mark with his stories
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 05, 2015, 05:26:49 PM
I wish it was July 31st and everything was signed sealed and delivered, cause I just think something may come along and cock everything up. :'(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 05, 2015, 05:31:00 PM
I wish it was July 31st and everything was signed sealed and delivered, cause I just think something may come along and cock everything up. :'(


What like the Villa
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 05, 2015, 05:33:07 PM

What like the Villa
That would break my heart.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 05, 2015, 05:38:25 PM
That would break my heart.


my guess is your heart will be thumping with excitement and adrenalin :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 05, 2015, 05:43:24 PM

my guess is your heart will be thumping with excitement and adrenalin :)
If everything is signed sealed and delivered, I will get down on one knee ( ;) ) and ask the missus to marry me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 05, 2015, 05:45:13 PM

my guess is your heart will be thumping with excitement and adrenalin :)

Don't believe it, just like transfer rumours, until on the official website :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 05, 2015, 05:52:08 PM
Neil Moxley leaked Wang's name
Where did he leak the name ?  Not doubting you. Just not seen it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 05, 2015, 05:55:09 PM
Apparently they've removed it from the article now.
Where did he leak the name ?  Not doubting you. Just not seen it

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on July 05, 2015, 05:59:14 PM
So now the club have announced that they have granted exclusivity what does it actually mean?

The papers seem to think a sale will go through before the end of the month but reading the official website statement again all it says is the "process should be completed before the end of the month", so the way I'm reading it nothing is set in stone and it means the preferred bidder either may or may not follow through with the acquisition?

I tried to make some sense of this with regards to exclusivity but couldn't get my head around it. 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RMxRpv1JGrIC&pg=PA217&lpg=PA217&dq=takeover+granting+exclusivity&source=bl&ots=EGsUhiqkIQ&sig=JYiuFOpUFiLNEqVSghQvJ3LbdnA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=312ZVaPpAs6v7AaXp4GAAw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=takeover%20granting%20exclusivity&f=false (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RMxRpv1JGrIC&pg=PA217&lpg=PA217&dq=takeover+granting+exclusivity&source=bl&ots=EGsUhiqkIQ&sig=JYiuFOpUFiLNEqVSghQvJ3LbdnA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=312ZVaPpAs6v7AaXp4GAAw&ved=0CEAQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=takeover%20granting%20exclusivity&f=false)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 05, 2015, 06:09:38 PM

Can you imagine the glory hunters this will attract :-X

We have a lot of genuine fans, but can you imagine, the seals and dog heads following us?
Not many neighbours would become turncoats.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 05, 2015, 06:33:12 PM
So now the club have announced that they have granted exclusivity what does it actually mean?

My understanding is that Peace and the preferred buyer now have a six week period to negotiate a price for the sale of the club. Effectively, Peace is happy he has found the right man, and the preferred buyer is keen to purchase the club.

The 6 weeks barrier allows them to negotiate a price without any interference. That means nobody else can look at the clubs books or carry out any due diligence until the end of that six week period - at which point the clubs ownership should really have changed hands.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: devonbaggiecjaj on July 05, 2015, 06:44:14 PM
My understanding is that Peace and the preferred buyer now have a six week period to negotiate a price for the sale of the club. Effectively, Peace is happy he has found the right man, and the preferred buyer is keen to purchase the club.

The 6 weeks barrier allows them to negotiate a price without any interference. That means nobody else can look at the clubs books or carry out any due diligence until the end of that six week period - at which point the clubs ownership should really have changed hands.
Would you know what the £2  million break cause JP has in the contract means.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on July 05, 2015, 06:47:27 PM
I guess the stadium will be developed pretty sharpish if these folks come in? Anyone think we could move? Plenty of land available in West Brom.

I don't think I'll cope if we actually become title contenders? What will the London press think? They'll hate it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 05, 2015, 06:51:17 PM
I guess the stadium will be developed pretty sharpish if these folks come in? Anyone think we could move? Plenty of land available in West Brom.

I don't think I'll cope if we actually become title contenders? What will the London press think? They'll hate it.

I would hate to move stadium. Things would never be the same again. Would much rather buy up land around the ground and extend that way rather than to a new souless stadium.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on July 05, 2015, 06:51:49 PM
Please dont make us move, please dont change our name, please dont change the kit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 05, 2015, 06:53:18 PM
Would you know what the £2  million break cause JP has in the contract means.

I wouldn't I'm afraid.

I would imagine it is some form of penalty for whether the preferred bidder now withdraws his interest.

I've only ever heard of them in context of housing - although I imagine the principle is slightly the same.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 05, 2015, 06:56:41 PM
I guess the stadium will be developed pretty sharpish if these folks come in? Anyone think we could move? Plenty of land available in West Brom.

I don't think I'll cope if we actually become title contenders? What will the London press think? They'll hate it.

I don't see us moving stadium - as it stands there is no reason for us to do so.

I'd be more interested to see what happens with regards to ticket pricing - will they remain lenient with their pricing or will the potential new ownership increase the match-day prices?

Also, we will never win the league whilst the league maintains its current format so we can cross that off the list.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: frazzle on July 05, 2015, 06:59:22 PM
I guess the stadium will be developed pretty sharpish if these folks come in? Anyone think we could move? Plenty of land available in West Brom.

I don't think I'll cope if we actually become title contenders? What will the London press think? They'll hate it.

Haha. Getting well ahead of yourself there fella!  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 05, 2015, 07:02:59 PM
Please dont make us move, please dont change our name, please dont change the kit.

Quite. I'd take mid-table championship mediocrity over any of those happening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 05, 2015, 07:07:40 PM
It was a few weeks ago when we first heard the name Wang Jianlan. It was mentioned at the bottom of a Birmingham Mail article in the comments section. This was subsequently seen as a hoax after that fake twitter account nonsense.

Was the person who made that comment ITK all along? Or was it just a lucky guess?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Laurie Cunningham on July 05, 2015, 07:20:07 PM
It's as if it's written in stone with some comments , where's the proofs this guy as bought WBA ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 05, 2015, 07:21:23 PM
It's as if it's written in stone with some comments , where's the proofs this guy as bought WBA ?

There won't be any written proof until the contract is signed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 05, 2015, 07:22:56 PM
It was a few weeks ago when we first heard the name Wang Jianlan. It was mentioned at the bottom of a Birmingham Mail article in the comments section. This was subsequently seen as a hoax after that fake twitter account nonsense.

Was the person who made that comment ITK all along? Or was it just a lucky guess?

I've seen nothing more than circumstantial evidence so far.  We're still at 2+2=5 at the moment.

The description 'Chinese consortium' makes me think it's a group of less wealthy investors.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Laurie Cunningham on July 05, 2015, 07:25:07 PM
There won't be any written proof until the contract is signed.

So why all the excitement ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 05, 2015, 07:27:12 PM
So why all the excitement ?

I'm not excited. I'm sceptical. You'll have to ask the excited people that question.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Laurie Cunningham on July 05, 2015, 07:28:14 PM
I'm not excited. I'm sceptical. You'll have to ask the excited people that question.

That's what I'm trying to do !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 05, 2015, 07:29:53 PM
In simple terms exclusivity deals mean Peace is only going to talk to the Chinese for fixed period of time. Exclusivity could be agreed at any point in the process for instance at the due diligence stage. All the terms might be agreed in principle and it is just a question of the legal work being tied up or there could be outstanding issues which need to resolved before any deal is in done.

 A break clause on a contract would stipulate an amount one or both of the parties would have to pay to break it early. If we sack him we would have to pay £2m and I suspect if he resigned to join another club that is the level of compensation that we would get. It would appear that should we be taken over it invalidates the break clause certainly on TP's side. 

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on July 05, 2015, 07:35:03 PM
Haha. Getting well ahead of yourself there fella!  :)

What do you mean?

I've ordered my Messi and Ronaldo home and away tops, starting learning Chinese and put everything I have on Albion winning the prem by 2018.

I'm all in.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 05, 2015, 07:35:22 PM
It was a few weeks ago when we first heard the name Wang Jianlan. It was mentioned at the bottom of a Birmingham Mail article in the comments section. This was subsequently seen as a hoax after that fake twitter account nonsense.

Was the person who made that comment ITK all along? Or was it just a lucky guess?

Or option three, not ITK and an incorrect guess. It could be anyone. We'll find out soon hopefully.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on July 05, 2015, 08:00:29 PM
The Mirror who broke the story have now changed the article so there's now no talk of them speaking to Peace for 4 months. So either it was all lies or the club have threatened them with legal action.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 05, 2015, 08:04:29 PM
It isn't the Disney group is it?

That is just a Mickey Mouse outfit.  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tennant1wba on July 05, 2015, 08:11:35 PM
http://thebaggiesway.com/2015/07/05/new-owner-of-west-brom-revealed/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 05, 2015, 09:03:07 PM
I guess the stadium will be developed pretty sharpish if these folks come in? Anyone think we could move? Plenty of land available in West Brom.

I don't think I'll cope if we actually become title contenders? What will the London press think? They'll hate it.

I think your getting a little to carried away. Let's not forget Fifa fair play rules mean we won't really be able to spend much more then we do currently.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 05, 2015, 09:06:17 PM
I think your getting a little to carried away. Let's not forget Fifa fair play rules mean we won't really be able to spend much more then we do currently.
FFP doesn't really exist though, does it?
It burnt Man City and PSG one season, many clubs still spent wildly such as Man Utd and a few months ago the FFP's rules were 'relaxed', it's basically been a failure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 05, 2015, 09:47:35 PM
My understanding was that it was only there to keep the status quo in tact.

Equally, the FFP in the championship are just as ridiculous.

If the clubs are not going to abide by the system rules then it should be scrapped. Unfortunately with the amount of sponsoring opportunities available it just provides too many loop holes.

Furthermore, I never understood why clubs such as ourselves who have been prudent with our finances have been placed under such restrictions because others have been reckless with their spending. The strict rules and punishments should be on those who continue to make substantial losses - not on those who break even and make profits like ourselves and Newcastle for example.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Yamaka on July 05, 2015, 10:41:48 PM
Swansea or Norwich would be better examples, although I take your point.  Newcastle are massively in debt to the tune of  £90+ million. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 05, 2015, 11:18:32 PM
Football has a problem for decades clubs across Europe have got themselves into financial difficulties by paying too much for players in wages and fees. Financial management and governance in general has been appalling and not only that but because of the football creditors rule the players have been largely protected form the consequences of this incompetence.

FFP was an attempt to bully clubs into getting their house in order, points deductions are all well and good when a club goes into administration but at that point the damage has been done. However the unintended consequence was to prevent clubs from running at a loss even if the ownership was willing and able to fund those losses. This obviously played into the hands of the clubs that were already wealthy and made it more difficult for the next Man City to emerge. 

FFP is going to be relaxed but it won't be completely discarded the sort of losses shipped by Man City in their early years under the Mansour's probably would still fall foul of the regulations. The £30m a season cap on losses currently in force in the Premier League is probably going to be the effective cap.

Ultimately the days of the sugar daddy owner have gone. I do not expect the new ownership to throw money at the club to chase a dream.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 06, 2015, 08:04:22 AM
It's times like this our decision as a club to vote against FFP makes even more sense.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 06, 2015, 01:00:41 PM
Maybe that's why we did it ;-)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 06, 2015, 01:17:03 PM
I've seen nothing more than circumstantial evidence so far.  We're still at 2+2=5 at the moment.

The description 'Chinese consortium' makes me think it's a group of less wealthy investors.

Would less wealthy investors pay 150m plus for a club and would Peace sell to someone who couldn't move the club forward?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 06, 2015, 01:59:40 PM
Steve Madeley said on Twitter to me that Neil Moxley never said Wanda group is behind takeover. Where did people read this. I see the Mirror has still got that Wanda group is looking to buy an English club but they removed the "talking to JP for 4 months" part.

Also the people have removed that part of the article haven't they?

So does this mean it was incorrect information or not yet to be public knowledge information?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 06, 2015, 02:14:36 PM
It could well be the latter, lawsuits and such.

Wanda have been mentioned fro different sources from day 1,  Jianlin said he would make an announcement soon of a sports club he has purchsed that would excite chinese soccer.

Are these sources wrong or are indeed people making five out of two plus two? Who knows.

But IF we have given exclusivity to one consortium, and IF the asking price is £150m then they must have serious cash whoever they are.

The stories about Wanda were published and then withdrew a few weeks ago. After the exclusivity statement by the club on Friday these stories appeared again.
Maybe they thought it was ok to publish them now, only to be threatened with legal action?

A lot of people seem to know what is going on, but are being gagged.

That's how i see it anyway.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 06, 2015, 02:24:25 PM
Would less wealthy investors pay 150m plus for a club and would Peace sell to someone who couldn't move the club forward?

Yes to the first question and I'd hope not to the second (but if he's had enough and just wants to bank £150mil, who knows)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 06, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Either they know something and have been leant on by their legal departments or they have been suckered by the same silly internet rumours that have sent Albion fans quiet giddy and are now quietly back tracking to cover their embarrassment.

If I had to bet on either I would go with the latter. I hope fans are not too disappointed when in turns out not to be Wanda. I think it is safe to assume that whoever is the successful bidder is they are quite likely to be very wealthy.     
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 06, 2015, 02:48:29 PM
The silence from Wanda themselves is interesting, unless they are purchasing another club and leaving a red herring.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 06, 2015, 03:08:22 PM
Why the secrecy anyway? I've never really understood that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on July 06, 2015, 06:34:13 PM
The silence from Wanda themselves is interesting, unless they are purchasing another club and leaving a red herring.

Once it enters the exclusivity stage a confidentiality agreement kicks in I believe.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 06, 2015, 06:39:00 PM
What do you mean?

I've ordered my Messi and Ronaldo home and away tops, starting learning Chinese and put everything I have on Albion winning the prem by 2018.

I'm all in.  ;D

Ha ha like it!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on July 06, 2015, 06:42:47 PM
Once it enters the exclusivity stage a confidentiality agreement kicks in I believe.

There are certain people who need to know about the deal to facilitate it happening and these people have been told that they face legal action if anything leaks. I would imagine the press are under exactly the same restraints so I would imagine that nothing will be forthcoming from any concrete source for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: matt_wba912 on July 06, 2015, 07:14:47 PM
Not sure what wandas structure is (listed firm etc) but there will be market abuse rules in place preventing unauthorised disclosure - not worth leaking it if doing so will potentially see you end up in jail or smacked with a big fine.  Those involved will be very carefull about what if anything they say publically
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on July 06, 2015, 07:48:14 PM
The suspense is killing me. Is it him, isn't it him? Whoever it is has to have deep pockets.
Roll on August the 1st as we will know by then (hopefully)..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: saml30 on July 06, 2015, 08:12:08 PM
Fulham and forest are both also owned by 2 very rich owners who are running then as businesses and not just throwing money at the clubs, our new owners could very well do the same thing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 06, 2015, 08:27:25 PM
Fulham and forest are both also owned by 2 very rich owners who are running then as businesses and not just throwing money at the clubs, our new owners could very well do the same thing

Not sure Forest are a great example - they have been chasing promotion to the Premier League for a while, sacked plenty of managers, posted losses of over £20million. They failed to meet championship financial fair play rules and were subject to a transfer embargo alongside Leeds and Blackburn after their loses increased by £5million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: we8seals on July 06, 2015, 09:27:37 PM
Not sure Forest are a great example - they have been chasing promotion to the Premier League for a while, sacked plenty of managers, posted losses of over £20million. They failed to meet championship financial fair play rules and were subject to a transfer embargo alongside Leeds and Blackburn after their loses increased by £5million.

Forest are a great example of " be careful what you wish for" !!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dubya BA on July 06, 2015, 09:56:05 PM
If it's not the Dalian Wanda group and therefore Wang Jianlin, wouldn't they dismiss the rumours?

I have to say it's hard to think of much else at the moment. Very exciting and a tad worrying.

My money is on Wang though.

On the subject of Peace- I believe that he will have negotiated the best deal for himself and the club. He will want to be remembered as having done a good job so his farewell is crucial in that respect.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aixelsyd on July 06, 2015, 10:04:52 PM
There are certain people who need to know about the deal to facilitate it happening and these people have been told that they face legal action if anything leaks. I would imagine the press are under exactly the same restraints so I would imagine that nothing will be forthcoming from any concrete source for the foreseeable future.

Sorry but what restraints are the media under?

The Secrecy agreement can only be legally applied to parties involved in the transaction...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 06, 2015, 10:13:53 PM
A couple of people who usually have v decent information in the past on other boards that I trust have said its not Dalian / Jianlin. I guess its a wait and see, I hope it gets done sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dubya BA on July 06, 2015, 10:24:58 PM
I would assume that someone has asked the group to comment on the rumours.

Of course they would decline if it is them and I can't think of a reason why this hasn't happened if they are not the buyer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on July 07, 2015, 01:19:25 AM
Sorry but what restraints are the media under?

The Secrecy agreement can only be legally applied to parties involved in the transaction...

I totally agree with you Aixelsyd, there are stories in the press everyday that are based upon speculation and rumour. I can't see stories based on speculation and rumour being sustainable grounds for legal action as the court case lists would be full everyday.

The Financial Times carry lots of stories of merges, takeover, et al every day without legal implications, so what's the difference in our cass?

I don't know who the new owner will be, assuming that is an agreement is reached to sell and buy, and I understand all the excitement the speculation and rumours of the richest man in China Taking us over, our club,  however, fans will operate  on a  expectation continuum of pessimistic to the ridiculesly optimistic when somewhere along the centre of the continuum is the correct expectation level. But wherever you are on that continuum enjoy it while you can you may be pleasantly surprised or very disappointed, but that is par for the course in the life of an Baggies Fan
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Astle1968 on July 07, 2015, 08:36:41 AM
I know there are a couple of threads on the takeover but I'm interested to see how many people are for/against it.

I know it's slightly subjective at the moment as we don't know the exact details or the proposed takeover, but based on what we know today do you want us to be taken over by the supposed Chinese group or would you prefer things to stay as they are?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 07, 2015, 08:41:37 AM
I'm happy with how we are. One of the last few Premier League clubs with a British owner who have no financial worries.

Better the devil you know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 07, 2015, 08:59:57 AM
Remember Randy Lerner is a billionaire and they've got worse under him. Money doesn't make you an overnight success. You need to do smart business, which we have for the last decade.

If the new owners are as careful but can pick up some of the bigger names we've narrowly missed out on in the past we could be on a steady rise. But then they could buy garbage over the odds.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 07, 2015, 09:05:04 AM
I have gone yes. We have done remarkably well to have rebuilt ourselves from the ruins that we were 20 years ago, without the help of a sugar daddy.
But as we are we will always be the poor guys in the transfer market, which is why we employed the likes of Ashworth.

I am realistic, and don't expect a new owner to push us into the top six, those clubs will always have a monopoly on signings, but it would be nice to compete with mid table sides for decent players.

Even if we don't get a new owner, we will still be one of the top 40 richest clubs on the planet. That is due to our own efforts and no one elses,and that is a record to be proud of.

But it would be nice now to have a bit of a leg up.We owe no one anything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Astle1968 on July 07, 2015, 09:10:32 AM
I'm a very firm no. I think what we have achieved over the last 10 years is remarkable and I'm proud to say we have done it all off our own back.

If you look at takeovers in the PL there's only been City and Chelsea which have been a success and numerous failures some of them almost putting the clubs out of business, or leaving the club without a ground to play in or isolating the fans by treating them dirt whilst trying to change club names/colours. I don't think it's worth the risk and I think even the biggest anti Peace fans may well looks back at the last decade as a golden era in the clubs history not to dissimilar to how older fans look at the 70's side for example.

Absolute best case scenario we become a 'huge' club. Just say we did somehow make CL football 5 years down the line. The whole thing would feel completely artificial to me & we wouldn't be successful because we were West Brom. Right now people feel the prospect of European football is to exciting to turn down, but people thought exactly the same about PL football and playing Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool 15 years ago and it only took a few seasons for that to wear off. Ask a City fan (some of the best in the country) about the idea of playing Roma under the lights in the CL 10 years ago they would have been dreaming but after 4 years of CL there's 10k empty seats.

Whilst I'll always support Albion I can honestly say now it doesn't make any difference to me if we are playing in the prem or conference. Of course it's easy to dream about us signing players like Aguero and Silva or even players a couple of levels down from that and watching us draw AC Milan in a Europa league tie, but ultimately if we had millions pumped in from an external source it just wouldn't feel like my club in quite the same way it does now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Big Al on July 07, 2015, 09:19:08 AM
I agree with what you say Astle, whilst the attraction of playing Barca or Milan seems very enticing I personally would get more enjoyment from beating Wulfs or Villans. It is much more fun to beat someone locally who you can banter with. For me it is Stokies so you can imagine the trauma I have faced for many years, and now they just say it is Pulis that beat them not really the team!
Miss playing the Wulfs and Brum much more than Red Star Belgrade.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cornishbaggie on July 07, 2015, 09:45:47 AM
I'm happy with how we are. One of the last few Premier League clubs with a British owner who have no financial worries.

Better the devil you know.

this is how i feel.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 07, 2015, 09:58:53 AM
I also agree with the Astle 1968 post. I also have one question, why would ( if it is to be believed) the worlds 29th richest bloke wants to take over our club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 07, 2015, 09:59:45 AM
I'm unsure in part because while I don't know who the bidder is I find it difficult to form an opinion. Even if I knew who they were it would still be difficult to gauge what their intentions are and how they would run the club.

In truth the some of very worst owners ever to be inflicted on a football club Gydamack and the Venkys probably didn't seem terrible when they turned up. Both talked the talk and put money into clubs of similar stature to the Albion but turned out to be poisonous.

My preference would be for Peace to carry on but that is not an option. As ever we have to embrace the change and hope for the best.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 07, 2015, 10:03:28 AM
I also agree with the Astle 1968 post. I also have one question, why would ( if it is to be believed) the worlds 29th richest bloke wants to take over our club?

If I was the 29th richest bloke in the world I would take over a lower Premier League side. You could see real progression then and have fun along the way. It wouldn't be as much fun buying a top 4 team and just tweaking a few things.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 07, 2015, 10:09:18 AM
I also agree with the Astle 1968 post. I also have one question, why would ( if it is to be believed) the worlds 29th richest bloke wants to take over our club?

I doubt it would be one man who would take us on but a part of his expanding wanda empire. that said they try to be best in the field of anything they takean interest in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bradleysrocket on July 07, 2015, 10:28:33 AM
In an ideal world we would have a mixture of both. The extra financial clout a new owner could bring, along with Peaces astute business acumen. Imagine what he could do with more finance to play with. Unfortunately he'll probably drift away.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on July 07, 2015, 10:35:54 AM
I voted yes, although I'm a staunch supporter of JP and am grateful to him for what the club has achieved during his stewardship.

I believe if he himself thinks it's time for change, then it is.

Whatever happens, sold or not, there is a risk and I just think, overall, the risk of a new owner, whoever that might be, offers possibly more benefits and renders the risk more tenable.

Of course, I am assuming that JP will be as good as his word when he said he would only sell to benefit the club and of course he will also benefit and rightly so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 07, 2015, 10:39:07 AM
I also agree with the Astle 1968 post. I also have one question, why would ( if it is to be believed) the worlds 29th richest bloke wants to take over our club?

Because it will cost him nothing - the financial return will ensure that's why it's a good investment for him, rather than a money pit.

That's probably why he's the 29th richest man in the world.....

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 07, 2015, 10:40:43 AM
I'm a very firm no. I think what we have achieved over the last 10 years is remarkable and I'm proud to say we have done it all off our own back.

If you look at takeovers in the PL there's only been City and Chelsea which have been a success and numerous failures some of them almost putting the clubs out of business, or leaving the club without a ground to play in or isolating the fans by treating them dirt whilst trying to change club names/colours. I don't think it's worth the risk and I think even the biggest anti Peace fans may well looks back at the last decade as a golden era in the clubs history not to dissimilar to how older fans look at the 70's side for example.

Absolute best case scenario we become a 'huge' club. Just say we did somehow make CL football 5 years down the line. The whole thing would feel completely artificial to me & we wouldn't be successful because we were West Brom. Right now people feel the prospect of European football is to exciting to turn down, but people thought exactly the same about PL football and playing Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool 15 years ago and it only took a few seasons for that to wear off. Ask a City fan (some of the best in the country) about the idea of playing Roma under the lights in the CL 10 years ago they would have been dreaming but after 4 years of CL there's 10k empty seats.

Whilst I'll always support Albion I can honestly say now it doesn't make any difference to me if we are playing in the prem or conference. Of course it's easy to dream about us signing players like Aguero and Silva or even players a couple of levels down from that and watching us draw AC Milan in a Europa league tie, but ultimately if we had millions pumped in from an external source it just wouldn't feel like my club in quite the same way it does now.

To me it doesn't feel like my club anymore at present. Treading water for the next few years just doing enough to scrape survival or European football. I know what I'd choose. Although strangely enough I much preferred following our club during the dark days of Talbot, Gould & Buckley etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 07, 2015, 10:52:22 AM
I vote yes because I like risk and excitement. Mediocrity is not success and I hate the fact that forces have conspired to make the top 5 of the Greed League almost untouchable. Yes, I would love it if we could compete as we are, but that is Roy of the Rovers stuff and will not happen.
If we can get a bloke in with loads of money and a modicum of integrity and it allows us to break ranks, then I'm all-in!
Come on, we would all love it if someone burst from the pack and beat them at their own game, why can't it be us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 07, 2015, 11:32:41 AM
Having made the club open to 'outside investment' JP conceded he cannot continue to proceed with our current MO, much less take the club forward into the new age of even greater TV payments. He recognises the need for new external flows of revenue to outpace the immediate competition as they too will have the TV monies.

He knows both his and our current limitations better than anybody on this forum. While I would prefer to be run along similar lines to what we are, even just a little extra finance could make things so much easier for us.  To stand still in the Premier is to effectively step backwards, and I'd prefer us not to be looking over our collective shoulder each season. Many thanks to JP for his prudent stewardship, but time to move on perhaps.

If there is to be a transitionary hand over period then fine, but I have no objections to him handing over the reigns if he feels it is the right time to do so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 07, 2015, 11:38:07 AM
Sorry but what restraints are the media under?

The Secrecy agreement can only be legally applied to parties involved in the transaction...

Which means, the media are only speculating ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 07, 2015, 11:43:40 AM
To me it doesn't feel like my club anymore at present. Treading water for the next few years just doing enough to scrape survival or European football. I know what I'd choose. Although strangely enough I much preferred following our club during the dark days of Talbot, Gould & Buckley etc.

Blimey - you are easily satisfied!   :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 07, 2015, 01:05:54 PM
I have voted no, Whilst I hate the premier league, I have great respect for JP's achievements.
My ideal scenario is new owners who appoint JP as chief exec on a good wage.

JP has a ten year mission (and budget to suit)  to make us top 4 club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 07, 2015, 01:18:23 PM
I have voted no, Whilst I hate the premier league, I have great respect for JP's achievements.
My ideal scenario is new owners who appoint JP as chief exec on a good wage.

JP has a ten year mission (and budget to suit)  to make us top 4 club.

That would be ideal, but i think Peace will walk away once it is done. With or without a takeover we are a very wealthy club, no one could accuse us of jumping on the bandwagon.

We deserve some success for the way the club has been run.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 07, 2015, 01:26:46 PM
I'm very unsure.
I think that most of us expect the people that take over to be putting their hands in the pockets at the very least, but is that what we really want? I would hate us to become a manufactured team like Man City and Chelsea attracting plastic fans and tourists.
Its going to go one of two ways and I can't really make my mind up which way it will go.
For all we know at the moment we could be being taken over by Carson Yoengs cell mate.
Fingers crossed and hope it works out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Vince Pinner on July 07, 2015, 01:31:04 PM
Another "no" here.

I cannot believe how carried away some people are allowing themselves to become.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: macc_baggie on July 07, 2015, 02:01:41 PM
I voted yes.

Peace has done a superb job (in my opinion) during his time in charge, and I trust him to have the clubs bests interests at heart when selling.

He can't stay forever, so why not sell up when the time is right for him and makes (hopefully) sense for the clubs long term future?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tipton Baggie on July 07, 2015, 02:08:49 PM
I voted yes.

Why not? Too dare is to dream, have no regrets.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 07, 2015, 02:22:31 PM
I voted no, only because we don't know the full facts yet.

JP has do an excellent job over the past few years and we have an awful lot to be thankful for. I look at other clubs who have had big investors and it makes me nervous. I hope JP is true to his word and has the best interests of the club at heart.

Chinese investment could be interesting - it is an emerging market and he is well known there so the commercial prospects could be huge in China.

I remember when Lakshmi Mittal bought into QPR with Ecclestone and Briatore. I thought to myself there and then that this would mean QPR competing with the big boys, and look where they are now.........

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 07, 2015, 02:29:58 PM
Another "no" here.

I cannot believe how carried away some people are allowing themselves to become.

We are not getting carried away.
The alternative is for Peace to carry on running a club he no longer wants, or feels he cannot improve.

I do understand the apprehension though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 07, 2015, 03:06:40 PM
We are not getting carried away.
The alternative is for Peace to carry on running a club he no longer wants, or feels he cannot improve.

I do understand the apprehension though.
I'm getting carried away!  :)
38 years since my first game and I've put a lot in without a trophy to my name, so the thought of something happening to change that, fills me with excitement. Ok, it may go t!ts up, but it could do that at anytime, whoever's in charge.
If that makes me a glory hunter then so be it, let the hunt begin! ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Yamaka on July 07, 2015, 03:17:21 PM
If it is the guy we suspect it is and if it is his desire to improve the club then I am cautiously optimistic.  The reason the Chinese are so successful is that like the ethos at our club, they don't do debt. This could be a big factor in our attraction? All this however is still speculation and until I know more I am "unsure".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 07, 2015, 03:27:56 PM
Yes "with a sad heart"
History shows that evolution is inevitable & in you are not one step ahead of the times you will fall by the wayside.
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 07, 2015, 03:40:01 PM
If it is the guy we suspect it is and if it is his desire to improve the club then I am cautiously optimistic.  The reason the Chinese are so successful is that like the ethos at our club, they don't do debt. This could be a big factor in our attraction? All this however is still speculation and until I know more I am "unsure".

Let's hope it's not a Greek then.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Yamaka on July 07, 2015, 03:56:22 PM
I guess one stereotype deserves another  ;D

Although I must admit my total bemusement with regards to the whole idea of "debt management" since almost without exception all "successful" clubs and countries for that matter seem to be hocked up to the hilt.

Whilst ripping off those who can least afford it...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on July 07, 2015, 04:10:11 PM
I voted yes, although I'm a staunch supporter of JP and am grateful to him for what the club has achieved during his stewardship.

I believe if he himself thinks it's time for change, then it is.

Whatever happens, sold or not, there is a risk and I just think, overall, the risk of a new owner, whoever that might be, offers possibly more benefits and renders the risk more tenable.

This....

Of course, I am assuming that JP will be as good as his word when he said he would only sell to benefit the club and of course he will also benefit and rightly so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wodenson46 on July 07, 2015, 04:25:23 PM
unsure but cautiously  - very cautiously optimistic. Standing still is stagnation. We need to move on and JP knows better than most when the time to do so is right. Just hoping that what he sees as 'right' is as much in favour of WBA as it is JP. I have no reason at all to suspect it is not favourable to WBA as far JP can make it, but it is still a big step into the unknown. Been a Baggies fan for 60 years plus  so hoping for the best but not really expecting it 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 07, 2015, 04:34:44 PM
Yes yes yes no doubt about it, i only have another 20 years left in me and i want to follow us in europe again
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on July 07, 2015, 04:41:02 PM
I'm getting carried away!  :)
38 years since my first game and I've put a lot in without a trophy to my name, so the thought of something happening to change that, fills me with excitement. Ok, it may go t!ts up, but it could do that at anytime, whoever's in charge.
If that makes me a glory hunter then so be it, let the hunt begin! ;D

Yes yes yes no doubt about it, i only have another 20 years left in me and i want to follow us in europe again

This ! Why not dream if you have a chance thrown your way, Why would anyone on here be happy with not seeing the Albion win a cup again, This club is special and a unique club we deserve it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AshD on July 07, 2015, 04:56:51 PM
If the sum of our ambitions is to simply survive and hope for the odd cup run, you have to question what the point is!

With the current regime and system, you could never see us do what Southampton have done, or compete with the likes of Everton (on a regular basis).

If new owners coming in means we have a bit more financial clout to push the boat out a little on signings and attempt to turn us into a team who can have a bit of a dart at finishing in Europa spots, then I'm all for it.

Yes its risky, and I don't think anyone would deny there is a bit of apprehension with a takeover, but I'm more concerned with being in 2025 and us still being in exactly the same position - never seen us win anything, getting by each year with no real excitement. Is being in the prem really the be all and end all, especially when scraping by each year???

With all the money flooding into the Prem, most clubs will be taken over sooner rather than later - it would be nice if we were on the front foot and tried to progress and improve as a club now rather than playing catch up further down the line!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on July 07, 2015, 05:17:54 PM
I am 67 now and have supported the baggies since I was a babby.I voted yes and trust jp to find the right buyer.I personally would make the hawthorns bigger keep the name and history.I do not go up the albion anymore because of health reasons[used  to have a season ticket in the Halfords].I do not post on forums as a rule, but I feel that this is a milestone for the club and will be bitterly disappointed if it falls through.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: devonbaggiecjaj on July 07, 2015, 05:26:27 PM
Yes yes yes no doubt about it, i only have another 20 years left in me and i want to follow us in europe again

Not sure if you have 20 mins left in ya some saturdays
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 07, 2015, 05:28:11 PM
With the current regime and system, you could never see us do what Southampton have done, or compete with the likes of Everton (on a regular basis).

What is so magical that Southampton have done? We finished 8th under Clarke with JP. as for competing with Everton didn't we finished above them last season? What's to say that Southampton or Everton won't be 16th next year. Fact is qualifying for the Europa league increases your chance of relegation and we can never make the chanmpions league. Lack of realism amongst lots of posters as to our club size relative to the league. Fact is 14 teams start the season with a best placed finish of 7th. No change of chairman will alter that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Millsey61 on July 07, 2015, 05:49:28 PM
I am a regular reader but rarely post, here are my thought for what they are worth. The last couple of seasons have been pretty dire watching the Albion apart from the occasional barnstormer, you do question the logic of why we keep turning up, but we are baggies and its in our blood. I have become a bit disillusioned with the premier league and the fact that all we and other clubs of our size have to aim for each year is survival and anything above 17th place, points are more important than performance and I do understand the importance of staying in this league. However, we are all starved of success, Peace and his board have done a great job, even with the errors made along the way, he realizes the time is right to move on and if he makes money on his investment then good luck to him. I voted yes because I dare to dream, I want my club to entertain me, I want us to be competitive and I don't want to be fighting relegation every year. If we stay as we are eventually we will fall, I just hope Mr Peace is as good as his word and the new owners have the best intentions for our club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 07, 2015, 06:02:47 PM
voted yes, its getting quite boring just playing for survival every year. would sooner take a gamble and give it a go and see where it takes us just what we should have done against the vile.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 07, 2015, 06:08:30 PM
What is so magical that Southampton have done? We finished 8th under Clarke with JP. as for competing with Everton didn't we finished above them last season? What's to say that Southampton or Everton won't be 16th next year. Fact is qualifying for the Europa league increases your chance of relegation and we can never make the chanmpions league. Lack of realism amongst lots of posters as to our club size relative to the league. Fact is 14 teams start the season with a best placed finish of 7th. No change of chairman will alter that.

Totally agree with you, although I wouldn't under-estimate what Southampton did.  Until about the end of March they were still in with a shout of Champions League.  Even when we finished 8th we were well out of CL contention by early January.

7th or 8th and good Cup runs is a very realistic ceiling as well as being a very realistic target.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 07, 2015, 06:09:59 PM
 by voting no you have voted to continue down the same path e.g most years fighting for survival, disregarding the carling cup or whatever it is at the moment and maybe just once every so often when the draw permits having a bit of a tilt at the fa cup. Surely the best reason to vote yes and maybe just maybe we can have a go at something slightly better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slugga1 on July 07, 2015, 06:11:16 PM
Voted yes.  I'm thankful for what JP has done (for the majority.. Some shockers but hey ho)
We definitely need a boost and without spending crazy money can still look above where we are now. I have to say another major factor for me is that we have a decent manager at the min too,  apart from Roy in recent years I think my answer could have been completely different.  God knows how tits up it could have gone with some of the dodgy managers we have had!
For me there is actually no better time for this to happen.

Onwards and upwards boing boing!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on July 07, 2015, 06:13:13 PM
I voted yes because I want us to be in with a chance of winning something and realistically the club has to be sold for us to do this.  Just got to hope that the new owner is the right owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 07, 2015, 06:35:25 PM
by voting no you have voted to continue down the same path e.g most years fighting for survival, disregarding the carling cup or whatever it is at the moment and maybe just once every so often when the draw permits having a bit of a tilt at the fa cup. Surely the best reason to vote yes and maybe just maybe we can have a go at something slightly better.

Nope.

I like several others voted no because nobody knows who this new owner is. If the question was 'do you want to win some trophies, have some fantastic players playing beautiful football, and make West Bromwich Albion a real force in football' then everyone would answer yes.

The question is 'do you want Albion to be taken over?' - you said it yourself 'maybe just maybe we can have a go at something slightly better'. Maybe just maybe it could all just go to pot. Before I'm branded a pessimist, consider this. Wealthier clubs have come into this league and not done what we've done (Wigan, QPR, Cardiff, Birmingham, Hull, Leicester just about survived, Villa have regressed since having a billionaire owner, Fulham, Derby, Wolves all have considerably struggled despite owners at least five times richer than ours). Money alone doesn't guarantee anything. It helps but you need someone in control who knows that they're doing.

And before again I have 'well Wigan and Blues won trophies' - does that have anything to do with spending tons of money on good players? Oh hang on they both got relegated the same seasons and won with good management and a ton of luck. We can win a trophy without a new owner; they aren't going to suddenly make us luckier or better at cup games.

The question doesn't ask 'do you want to win it all' it asks 'can a new guy with more money do better than the man who defied the odds and built us up to where we are?' And until I see evidence that the new owners know what they're doing, I don't want to take that risk.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 07, 2015, 08:10:47 PM
Nope.

I like several others voted no because nobody knows who this new owner is. If the question was 'do you want to win some trophies, have some fantastic players playing beautiful football, and make West Bromwich Albion a real force in football' then everyone would answer yes.

The question is 'do you want Albion to be taken over?' - you said it yourself 'maybe just maybe we can have a go at something slightly better'. Maybe just maybe it could all just go to pot. Before I'm branded a pessimist, consider this. Wealthier clubs have come into this league and not done what we've done (Wigan, QPR, Cardiff, Birmingham, Hull, Leicester just about survived, Villa have regressed since having a billionaire owner, Fulham, Derby, Wolves all have considerably struggled despite owners at least five times richer than ours). Money alone doesn't guarantee anything. It helps but you need someone in control who knows that they're doing.

And before again I have 'well Wigan and Blues won trophies' - does that have anything to do with spending tons of money on good players? Oh hang on they both got relegated the same seasons and won with good management and a ton of luck. We can win a trophy without a new owner; they aren't going to suddenly make us luckier or better at cup games.

The question doesn't ask 'do you want to win it all' it asks 'can a new guy with more money do better than the man who defied the odds and built us up to where we are?' And until I see evidence that the new owners know what they're doing, I don't want to take that risk.
good points psalm but stop wetting on our chips.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 07, 2015, 08:53:56 PM
Nope.

I like several others voted no because nobody knows who this new owner is. If the question was 'do you want to win some trophies, have some fantastic players playing beautiful football, and make West Bromwich Albion a real force in football' then everyone would answer yes.

The question is 'do you want Albion to be taken over?' - you said it yourself 'maybe just maybe we can have a go at something slightly better'. Maybe just maybe it could all just go to pot. Before I'm branded a pessimist, consider this. Wealthier clubs have come into this league and not done what we've done (Wigan, QPR, Cardiff, Birmingham, Hull, Leicester just about survived, Villa have regressed since having a billionaire owner, Fulham, Derby, Wolves all have considerably struggled despite owners at least five times richer than ours). Money alone doesn't guarantee anything. It helps but you need someone in control who knows that they're doing.

And before again I have 'well Wigan and Blues won trophies' - does that have anything to do with spending tons of money on good players? Oh hang on they both got relegated the same seasons and won with good management and a ton of luck. We can win a trophy without a new owner; they aren't going to suddenly make us luckier or better at cup games.

The question doesn't ask 'do you want to win it all' it asks 'can a new guy with more money do better than the man who defied the odds and built us up to where we are?' And until I see evidence that the new owners know what they're doing, I don't want to take that risk.

Peace can't take us any further; he's done fantastically well to get us this far, the only way to go further is with greater financial clout and perhaps new ideas. Its a risk yes, but I'd rather give it a go than stay where we are.  Peace knows this and it was his idea to seek investment; I see it as a continuation of his work, and as such I trust he's being very careful in who he entrusts his legacy.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cuckfield1704 on July 07, 2015, 09:03:24 PM
It will not be 'Our Club' anymore and I remain of the view that, for many reasons, this deal will not happen.
The £150m for Peace is of course just the start. It will take the same again for players and ground capacity improvements before we can made headway in this league. And it is all up front. Peace will not agree to any payment by instalments plan. So who is going to stump up £300m for Albion with no hope of Champions League money which by the way virtually doubles the yearly income of Arsenal and Chelsea.
Also if the ground capacity is somehow increased to say 45,000 where are all the extra punters coming from at £30/£40 a pop. West Ham are clearly very nervous.
In the immortal words of the late Eddie Braben would you want anyone who could not find their way to Dartmouth Square owning 'Our Club'?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on July 07, 2015, 09:12:05 PM
I vote yes as posted before if JP feels it's the right time to go then it's time for change.

Things will never be the same again either way as we know he has tried to sell the club.

My only concern or desire is that whoever takes us over appoints somebody to run the club with the necessary business acumen who will be at the club and available  on a daily basis with their finger firmly on the pulse.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 07, 2015, 09:20:29 PM
Voted  unsure because JP no longer wants to stay and We have no clue the new Owners intentions
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dubya BA on July 07, 2015, 09:40:36 PM
I voted unsure because how can you be?

Having said what difference does it matter what we think?

I remain cautiously optimistic-just hope we are in safe hands.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on July 07, 2015, 09:41:54 PM
Voted yes purely down to the fact that my opinion makes no difference whatsoever - if JP wants to sell, he is entitled to sell. In many ways it's the best possible move for him.....as at some point, due to our inability to sustain prolonged periods punching above our financial weight, we more than likely will fall through the trapdoor at some point. Surely if he wants out, the more relevant question should be, "who would you like to take over" not "would you like a takeover"? Who knows JP's exact reasons for sale - maybe it has taken its toll on his family life, maybe health/mentally or just that he realises he just can't generate the finacial muscle to push us on in any significant way without potentially compromising the clubs future....which effectively is his own also. At some point he was always going to sell...that fact is unavoidable - the only thing we should all be concerned about is 'who' takes over? This leads me to my next point and something that needs to be considered - if the rumours are to be believed, and a wealthy consortium with (steady) long term plans are set to take the helm, then surely this is better than a wealthy 'one man band' that we are beholden to? If R A leaves Chelsea...then what? Hull, Cardiff, Blues, Leeds the list goes on and on. A consortium with the sole aim of long term wealth creation and diversification surley means less risk to them, ultimately lowering our exposure? I hope the rumours are true as I'd take this any day over an oil midas or Russian looking for a new toy!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on July 07, 2015, 10:12:28 PM
Voted yes purely down to the fact that my opinion makes no difference whatsoever - if JP wants to sell, he is entitled to sell. In many ways it's the best possible move for him.....as at some point, due to our inability to sustain prolonged periods punching above our financial weight, we more than likely will fall through the trapdoor at some point. Surely if he wants out, the more relevant question should be, "who would you like to take over" not "would you like a takeover"? Who knows JP's exact reasons for sale - maybe it has taken its toll on his family life, maybe health/mentally or just that he realises he just can't generate the finacial muscle to push us on in any significant way without potentially compromising the clubs future....which effectively is his own also. At some point he was always going to sell...that fact is unavoidable - the only thing we should all be concerned about is 'who' takes over? This leads me to my next point and something that needs to be considered - if the rumours are to be believed, and a wealthy consortium with (steady) long term plans are set to take the helm, then surely this is better than a wealthy 'one man band' that we are beholden to? If R A leaves Chelsea...then what? Hull, Cardiff, Blues, Leeds the list goes on and on. A consortium with the sole aim of long term wealth creation and diversification surley means less risk to them, ultimately lowering our exposure? I hope the rumours are true as I'd take this any day over an oil midas or Russian looking for a new toy!

I share your concerns but surely but the time Roman leaves Chelsea theres a great chance there will be a legacy there. Potentially a bigger stadium, bigger more valuable worldwide sponsorship deals, a bigger fan base, a better academy, decades of trophies and the list could go on.

i haven't voted yet, for me it's a tough one, if the owner(s) ambitious but sensible then it's a yes as I want to see WBA lift a trophy in my lifetime as 10 years or so in the premiership is easily forgotton (just ask Charlton fans) but 1 cup can make the world of difference and I know my birmingham city friends wouldn't swap the league cup and there winning day at wembley for promotion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on July 07, 2015, 10:24:10 PM
I share your concerns but surely but the time Roman leaves Chelsea theres a great chance there will be a legacy there. Potentially a bigger stadium, bigger more valuable worldwide sponsorship deals, a bigger fan base, a better academy, decades of trophies and the list could go on.

i haven't voted yet, for me it's a tough one, if the owner(s) ambitious but sensible then it's a yes as I want to see WBA lift a trophy in my lifetime as 10 years or so in the premiership is easily forgotton (just ask Charlton fans) but 1 cup can make the world of difference and I know my birmingham city friends wouldn't swap the league cup and there winning day at wembley for promotion.

My view as we do not know yet who it is and their plans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 07, 2015, 10:28:07 PM
What is so magical that Southampton have done? We finished 8th under Clarke with JP. as for competing with Everton didn't we finished above them last season? What's to say that Southampton or Everton won't be 16th next year. Fact is qualifying for the Europa league increases your chance of relegation and we can never make the chanmpions league. Lack of realism amongst lots of posters as to our club size relative to the league. Fact is 14 teams start the season with a best placed finish of 7th. No change of chairman will alter that.

No they finished 11th.

Not sure I agree that qualifying for the Europa league increases your chances of relegation either. It doesn't seem to do Spurs much harm. I think it's more likely that having a small squad or a squad that isn't very good AND qualifying for the Europa league increases your chances of relegation. Teams that have a good depth of squad can rest players those that don't can't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 08, 2015, 08:18:56 AM
Right here goes:

For those who want to do their own research, the reports are here:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-C3MgynjIGkfnlWRWFvemFoVlNWUXRsY2puZnNiYjZxb19ubEtzeDZtMy1xQ0ZFUkFZck0&usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-C3MgynjIGkfnlWRWFvemFoVlNWUXRsY2puZnNiYjZxb19ubEtzeDZtMy1xQ0ZFUkFZck0&usp=sharing)


Club Hierarchy - Corporate Tree

1. West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd. - Top of the corporate tree.

Shareholders -

Jeremy Peace: 50,000 Ordinary shares @ £500 per share- 80% total shares - 95.75% Value (£25,000,000)

Kappa Ltd: 12,500 Ordinary 'A' shares @ £125 per share - 20% total shares - 6.25% Value (£1,562,500)


This would theoretically place the value of the club, based on shares alone of it's Ultimate Parent company at approx. £26.5m - though this is a distorted figure as shares have a face value. Consider the fact that the face value of the shares in Group (that some people on here still own and others sold) are worth £10, having Mr Peace offer thousands for individual shares basically assigns the value of a single share at 'whatever someone is willing to pay'. So as much as the face value of the company is £26.5m this does not take into account changes in the company's revenue and profit increases since the shares were issued - which are considerably more now and the price someone would be willing to pay for said shares.

2. West Bromwich Albion Group Ltd. Second branch of corporate tree. Parent: Holdings

This is the company those on here claim they have or had shares. The list of shareholders is 20 pages long. Importantly however:

584 shareholders including:
- West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd: 6,446 Shares - 67%
- Mr Geoffrey Leonard Hale: 1,001 Shares - 10.3%


Active Directors: Mr Mark Jenkins - Appointed 1st October 2010
Former Directors: Mr Jeremy Peace - 21st April 2010 - Resigned 21 May 2013

3. West Bromwich Albion Football Club Ltd. - 3rd Branch of the corporate tree - Parent: Group

This is the 'footballing department', the actual football club.

Shareholders - West Bromwich Albion Group: 2 Shares - 100%


Directors: Mr Mark Jenkins, Mr Jeremy Peace, Mr Adrian Donald Wright, Mr Richard Paul Garlick

Note: The company has had 13 mortgages, the latest in 2005. These include parachute payments from the FA, property mortgages on the training ground, social club.

Fully satisfied mortgages on The Hawthorns, land free for development.

4. West Bromwich Albion Heritage Ltd. - 4th branch of corporate tree - Parent: Group

As far as I can tell this is the branch of the company that owns the social clubs, various areas for development including some of the land around Halfords Lane.

Shareholders: West Bromwich Albion Group - 139,571 Ordinary Shares - 99.7%
                                                                  47 Other - 0.2%

I haven't been around much lately, so have only just noticed this. Thanks for producing it, but I has misunderstood what it was that you'd gone to find out.  I thought what you were going to was try to analyse to what extent Peace has spent his own personal money on the club. I can't see that the above info reveals anything about that?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Critical Baggie on July 08, 2015, 08:22:05 AM
Some of you may recognise me from being a regular poster on here up until me moving to Hong Kong a couple of years ago but seeing as I'm on the door step to China I have spoken with some friends about these murmurs and thought I'd share what I learnt about Wang Jianlin and wider to that the context of why he'd be interested in buying a club in the PL.

Football believe it or not is very high on the agenda for the ruling Communist party in China at the moment. It's the biggest sport in the world and they see it as a big opportunity for their ambition to become the number one super power in the world. They have plans to host a world cup in the foreseeable future and it's the governments aim to make it the number one sport in China but they do understand people need to take an active interest in the sport before they are able grow the talent closer to home. Investing in the EPL and exposing the mainland to this would be a must to grow interest.

Jilanlin himself is a member of the Communist Party, his Dad was even in Mao's Red Army, and he has remit from President Xi Jinping to invest in football overseas. If it's to happen Jilanlin will be the first mainland Chinese PL owner. He's not shy to make it known he's loaded so be sure he'll invest in the club. One issue might be on the playing side, they might want to use the club to channel Chinese players through which could be a bit of a disaster knowing the lack of quality but that remains to be seen.

Anyway I'm very excited to see this happen if it's true. Knowing how bullish the Chinese are and their ambitions to be number one I think it can only be a good think to see us advance as a club. He won't be investing to come 2nd best against the Arab's or the Yanks but will have expectations from the China to make their mark.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 08, 2015, 08:25:47 AM
I am not ITK but I have been told it's def not the richest man in China who is buying us. Just reporting what I have been told
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 08, 2015, 08:52:40 AM
No they finished 11th.

Not sure I agree that qualifying for the Europa league increases your chances of relegation either. It doesn't seem to do Spurs much harm. I think it's more likely that having a small squad or a squad that isn't very good AND qualifying for the Europa league increases your chances of relegation. Teams that have a good depth of squad can rest players those that don't can't.

I think the point is that unless you are a wealthy enough club to be able to pay the wages of a strong and sizeable squad, the Europa League puts a massive strain on the squad and the potential extra dozen or so games increases the risk of injuries to key players.   Very few "smaller" clubs have managed to combine a successful Europa League campaign with anything other than a major struggle in the Premier League.

It's the reason so many clubs view the Europa League as a poisoned chalice.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 08, 2015, 09:52:43 AM
I think the point is that unless you are a wealthy enough club to be able to pay the wages of a strong and sizeable squad, the Europa League puts a massive strain on the squad and the potential extra dozen or so games increases the risk of injuries to key players.   Very few "smaller" clubs have managed to combine a successful Europa League campaign with anything other than a major struggle in the Premier League.

It's the reason so many clubs view the Europa League as a poisoned chalice.

plus the fact that as most clubs have said the prize money is quite poor and the competition actually cost clubs to enter
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 08, 2015, 10:18:34 AM
plus the fact that as most clubs have said the prize money is quite poor and the competition actually cost clubs to enter

Are you being literal or figurative in saying it "costs" clubs to play in the Europa League?

The prize money was £5M last season which compared to the Champions League's £15M is small beer but still a decent wedge. It's due to rise by about 60-65% this season so will be about £8M.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 08, 2015, 10:20:27 AM
I'm sure you don't break even in the competition until the quarterfinals.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 08, 2015, 10:24:06 AM
I am not ITK but I have been told it's def not the richest man in China who is buying us. Just reporting what I have been told
Is whoever told you ITK?
I don't think Wang Jianlin is the richest bloke in China anyway is he, so is he ruled out or not?
Not questioning your comment, would just like a bit more background as we seem to know very little about what's going on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on July 08, 2015, 10:24:19 AM
I am not ITK but I have been told it's def not the richest man in China who is buying us. Just reporting what I have been told

Im as clueless as the next Albion fan, however I cant seem to get my head around why the richest man in China would buy us.

Surely if they wanted success, and to be a dominant force, they would look to buy a 'bigger' club than us?

It just seems a lot of money would need to be spent in order to make us a force to even challenge in England.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 08, 2015, 10:47:51 AM
plus the fact that as most clubs have said the prize money is quite poor and the competition actually cost clubs to enter

This is what Peace must have meant when he said should we qualify we might not enter due to the costs.

I took it literally and thought he was being tight again, but i think he meant for the rewards on offer it wasn't really worth dicing with our prem status.
Sometimes Mr Peace has the right idea but the way he says things doesn't come out right, such as the mid championship club.

It would have been interesting however to have seen the fans reaction had we qualified but not taken part.

Football is all about competing with the best. I was about 26  the last time we had European nights, now i will be  60 in four weeks time.
Will i ever see any more?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 08, 2015, 10:57:58 AM
Im as clueless as the next Albion fan, however I cant seem to get my head around why the richest man in China would buy us.

Surely if they wanted success, and to be a dominant force, they would look to buy a 'bigger' club than us?

It just seems a lot of money would need to be spent in order to make us a force to even challenge in England.

Everton have been 'for Sale' though I doubt not actively searching for a buyer, for some time. Surely they're a better shout for making that next step.

Our next step is solid top 8 team, something that costs tens of millions to acheive.

As I've said before, league position and success in cups is almost entirely down to the manager in charge and the right set of players, not the bank balance of a club. Villa already have billionaire owners, and bar getting their cup tactics right, they didn't do much else the last four years. How else did Wigan and Blues win trophies, it certainly wasn't high bankrolling.

Sure there's a link between buying the best players and success, but United spent £213m in the last two years and won the same amount of trophies as us. Why does anyone correlate spending money and winning cups. I'd say management and the right recruitment are infinitely more important than simply spending lots of money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on July 08, 2015, 11:02:54 AM
Everton have been 'for Sale' though I doubt not actively searching for a buyer, for some time. Surely they're a better shout for making that next step.

Our next step is solid top 8 team, something that costs tens of millions to acheive.

As I've said before, league position and success in cups is almost entirely down to the manager in charge and the right set of players, not the bank balance of a club. Villa already have billionaire owners, and bar getting their cup tactics right, they didn't do much else the last four years. How else did Wigan and Blues win trophies, it certainly wasn't high bankrolling.

Sure there's a link between buying the best players and success, but United spent £213m in the last two years and won the same amount of trophies as us. Why does anyone correlate spending money and winning cups. I'd say management and the right recruitment are infinitely more important than simply spending lots of money.

If you spend enough money you'll get it right eventually. Just like Man City did. Just like Man United will.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 08, 2015, 11:13:14 AM
All I know is I've been told by someone who's husband knows someone who used to work at the club, an important person and they told me its not wang janlin. Not trying to make a name for myself or cause a row, just passing on what I have been told from a decent sauce.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on July 08, 2015, 11:22:44 AM
If you spend enough money you'll get it right eventually. Just like Man City did. Just like Man United will.

Spot on.

If you keep spending, and allow a year or two for the 'spine' of the team (which are world class players) to gel, then all you need is a manager to make the rest happen.

Look how much Chelsea originally spent when Roman first took over, then it took the right manager and a couple tweaks and they are now dominant.

I just think for us to get to that stage we would literally need to spend hundreds of millions to even break the top four.

You only have to look at our squad now, and you would maybe name 1-2 players who could play top 4-6 of the league.

Take that into affect, and the fact the Chinese want the biggest and best as stated above, just doesnt make it plausable that its Wang.

Dont get me wrong though, I hope im wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 08, 2015, 12:29:24 PM
Everton have been 'for Sale' though I doubt not actively searching for a buyer, for some time. Surely they're a better shout for making that next step.

 I'd say management and the right recruitment are infinitely more important than simply spending lots of money.

I'd say management and money BOTH have to be there to be successful.

Could Ferguson and Mourinho have achieved Premier League titles with our transfer and wage budgets ?

Moyes couldn't do it with Man U's budget.

Could Irvine have achieved Premier League titles at Manu U and Chelsea ?

What could Pulis achieve with a Man U or Chelsea size budget ?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 08, 2015, 12:34:34 PM
All I know is I've been told by someone who's husband knows someone who used to work at the club, an important person and they told me its not wang janlin. Not trying to make a name for myself or cause a row, just passing on what I have been told from a decent sauce.
Well if that's true a lot of us are well and truly barking up the wrong tree!  :o
If not him then who? Or should that be Hoo??? ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 08, 2015, 12:48:29 PM
But we would be cheaper to buy than a big team, and maybe easier to put their own stamp on the club/team.... And we would have less competition than if he took a team in London
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PepeMel on July 08, 2015, 12:50:29 PM
I don't take notice of these sisters /boyfriends aunties rumours
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 08, 2015, 12:53:00 PM
Wonder who the other rich guys in China are then, who we could bring into the equation
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 08, 2015, 01:09:46 PM
Wonder who the other rich guys in China are then, who we could bring into the equation

http://www.forbes.com/china-billionaires/list/ (http://www.forbes.com/china-billionaires/list/)

According to this Wang Jianlin is not the richest person in China, so maybe we're not being taken over by the richest bloke in China afterall  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on July 08, 2015, 01:14:34 PM
Its one of those that i think we will be none the wiser to who it is until theres a official announcement.
Notice the confirmed ITK posters are staying away from this thread
The lack of noise that comes out of the club anyway+exclusivity agreement and the legal stuff that goes with that= we aint going to hear anything

Speculation till then
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 08, 2015, 01:30:21 PM
http://www.forbes.com/china-billionaires/list/ (http://www.forbes.com/china-billionaires/list/)

According to this Wang Jianlin is not the richest person in China, so maybe we're not being taken over by the richest bloke in China afterall  :)

Hui Wing Mau #16 - Linked to buying Newcastle a few years ago. Also an Australian citizen along with his family (his son & daughter both help run his companies), could explain the Australian connections in the press month or so ago?

(This is pure speculation, I am bored)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RuncornBaggie on July 08, 2015, 02:03:15 PM
Wonder if this makes any difference to any potential takeover by anyone of Chinese desent?

http://www.international-adviser.com/news/1023646/china-market-plunge-economy-risk

The continuing fall in China's stock market puts the country's entire financial system and structural reform agenda at risk, according to Axa Investment Managers and Schroders - See more at: http://www.international-adviser.com/news/1023646/china-market-plunge-economy-risk#sthash.KUdfU3fA.dpuf
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 08, 2015, 02:14:16 PM
Wonder if this makes any difference to any potential takeover by anyone of Chinese desent?

http://www.international-adviser.com/news/1023646/china-market-plunge-economy-risk

The continuing fall in China's stock market puts the country's entire financial system and structural reform agenda at risk, according to Axa Investment Managers and Schroders - See more at: http://www.international-adviser.com/news/1023646/china-market-plunge-economy-risk#sthash.KUdfU3fA.dpuf

Not really.  They will have diversified their wealth quite a lot already
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 08, 2015, 02:57:22 PM
Obviously Hui Wing Mau is just a name plucked out of the sky (nice one!) but he is a good example on that Forbes rich list that it could effect things... he's seemingly had $1bn wiped off his value since the 2014 list was produced.

http://www.forbes.com/profile/hui-wing-mau/?list=china-billionaires
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 08, 2015, 06:39:47 PM
It could be the be the bloke who owns the WOK YOO LIKE Chinese take away chain.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on July 08, 2015, 08:36:21 PM
It could be the be the bloke who owns the WOK YOO LIKE Chinese take away chain.

More likely to be the owners of 'City Wok'  (one for the South Park fans there).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aujF4bwXb5g
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 09, 2015, 02:49:26 PM
Jianlin has lost $6.5bn on the stock exchange recently. There goes us being champions league winners in two years time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 09, 2015, 02:57:54 PM
The financial news from China could work both ways I guess

If Chinese investor(s) are about to buy us, they will have likely just lost a fortune on the Chinese stock market. This may well change their approach to us in that they need to be much more cautious?

On the other hand, they may want to transfer as much cash into other more stable economies meaning they may want to invest a bit more............
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 09, 2015, 03:21:44 PM
Jianlin has lost $6.5bn on the stock exchange recently. There goes us being champions league winners in two years time.
Depends how much he's got left!
Isn't that the equivalent of us losing a fiver down the back of the sofa?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 09, 2015, 03:34:43 PM
Don't know about a fiver to the likes of us, but he's down to his last $32.5 billion now.

Poor lamb, be on the bones of his backside before he knows it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/liyanchen/2015/07/08/chinas-richest-billionaires-lost-195-billion-in-one-month-amid-stock-market-rout/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/liyanchen/2015/07/08/chinas-richest-billionaires-lost-195-billion-in-one-month-amid-stock-market-rout/)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 11, 2015, 12:51:49 AM
Jianlin has lost $6.5bn on the stock exchange recently. There goes us being champions league winners in two years time.

He lost 6.5bn? Isn't that most of his money gone, as I thought he was only worth about 9bn
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on July 11, 2015, 01:28:23 AM
Reading the article posted, he is worth 32.3 billion dollars, U.S.

6.5 billion dollars has been wiped off his shares, but like all investments in stock markets they can go down as well as up and as long as he holds on to his shares it is only a loss on paper that, nonetheless, must be of concern to him.

The Chinese economy has slowed, but is still in a quite health condition overall compared to the rest of the world and I would hazard a guess that we ALL have something that was made or has its origin in China in our homes or on our drive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 11, 2015, 07:08:38 PM
I would be very surprised if this goes through now. At the end of July we will hear Peace say he couldn't reach a satisfactory agreement, the season will be upon us and no new player's will have arrived.

I hope to god i am wrong and that i end up with egg on my face, but we all know about the wily old fox and his way's.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 11, 2015, 07:57:14 PM
I would be very surprised if this goes through now. At the end of July we will hear Peace say he couldn't reach a satisfactory agreement, the season will be upon us and no new player's will have arrived.

I hope to god i am wrong and that i end up with egg on my face, but we all know about the wily old fox and his way's.

What makes you think a deal is unlikely ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PepeMel on July 11, 2015, 08:07:58 PM
Not this old chestnut again :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on July 11, 2015, 08:13:30 PM
Not this old chestnut again :)

Wouldn't be the first or last time the Albion have broke your heart   ;).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lonions on July 11, 2015, 10:37:45 PM
The fact they've gone into exclusivity means a deal has been agreed. The 30 days is for the buyer to conduct a more thorough due diligence.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PepeMel on July 11, 2015, 10:59:05 PM
The fact they've gone into exclusivity means a deal has been agreed. The 30 days is for the buyer to conduct a more thorough due diligence.


Don't talk saft remember we are of course only little ole albion
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 11, 2015, 11:15:05 PM
it means a deal has been done in principle, however due diligence enables the purchaser to evaluate all risks and based on that perhaps further price movement.  if the risks are perceived by the buyer to be too great and a price reduction can not be agreed then the buyer can walk away but will probably have to pay a default fee.

At that stage any other interested parties may come back in, unless of course the seller withdraws the offer to sell :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 12, 2015, 03:34:09 AM
I would be very surprised if this goes through now. At the end of July we will hear Peace say he couldn't reach a satisfactory agreement, the season will be upon us and no new player's will have arrived.

I hope to god i am wrong and that i end up with egg on my face, but we all know about the wily old fox and his way's.

I know your comments are based on past experiences but lets just wait and see what happens over the next 2-3 weeks. At the end of July if the situation remains as it is now along with no inspiring signings then JP will be facing some criticism.

For anyone interested I have looked at the up-to-date signings by premierships clubs and so far we are 19th on overall spending on actual fees disclosed and on a player who was part of a relegated team to League One. Only Norwich to date have not purchased a player costing a fee.

http://www.soccernews.com/soccer-transfers/english-premier-league-transfers/

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cuckfield1704 on July 12, 2015, 07:02:31 AM
During the close season Norwich have bought Graham Dorrans for £3m
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 12, 2015, 11:07:42 AM
http://eplindex.com/69337/fit-proper-ownership.html

"With West Bromwich Albion set to reveal Wang Jianlin, one of the richest men in China, as their new owner, we take a closer look at past failings."

They believe it's Jianlin  ;D roll on the end of the month
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 12, 2015, 11:09:39 AM
http://eplindex.com/69337/fit-proper-ownership.html

"With West Bromwich Albion set to reveal Wang Jianlin, one of the richest men in China, as their new owner, we take a closer look at past failings."

They believe it's Jianlin  ;D roll on the end of the month

They have got about as much of a clue as we have.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wimbledon baggie on July 12, 2015, 11:14:32 AM
Might we end up in a red kit then?????
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 12, 2015, 11:33:41 AM
Might we end up in a red kit then?????

We've got a red away kit, I'm sure that will be fine. And I hope Peace would conduct his own due diligence on the new owners so that he knows, or has assurances, that they won't meddle too much
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Xpresso on July 12, 2015, 11:38:42 AM
Quote
http://eplindex.com/69337/fit-proper-ownership.html

"With West Bromwich Albion set to reveal Wang Jianlin, one of the richest men in China, as their new owner, we take a closer look at past failings."

They believe it's Jianlin  ;D roll on the end of the month

Removed already. Someone's doing their darnedest to keep the wraps on this sale.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ukar1 on July 12, 2015, 11:42:54 AM
No its not.. Still there 30 secs ago !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 12, 2015, 11:48:44 AM
As I said earlier I've been told by decent source it's not jianlin
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 12, 2015, 12:04:23 PM
As I said earlier I've been told by decent source it's not jianlin

Que Sera Sera  :-\

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 12, 2015, 12:43:37 PM
I heard from a very reliable itk that Doug Ellis is in the frame!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on July 12, 2015, 12:52:27 PM
I heard from a very reliable itk that Doug Ellis is in the frame!
I heard the same
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 12, 2015, 01:08:05 PM
I doubt 91 year old Doug Ellis is thinking of getting involved in a football club again, he maybe advising someone (possibly Peace) but anymore than that i'd say very unlikely
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on July 12, 2015, 02:33:49 PM
I've just seen deadly Doug in the vine having tikka and Bathams. I asked him personally and he said it was 'wide of the mark'  ;)

He offered £165 million but apparently Peace only wants £150 million so they were 'unable to find common ground'.

100% ITK  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on July 12, 2015, 06:50:39 PM
If it isn't Wang Jianlin, I think it will show that journalists genuinely do just make things up.

I remember Chris Lepkowski getting very angry whenever somebody made that claim, yet how else would you explain it? The journalist may well have seen a twitter rumour and ran with it, claiming that he knew more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on July 12, 2015, 07:45:43 PM
I've just seen deadly Doug in the vine having tikka and Bathams. I asked him personally and he said it was 'wide of the mark'  ;)

He offered £165 million but apparently Peace only wants £150 million so they were 'unable to find common ground'.

100% ITK  ;)
love it lol :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 13, 2015, 08:28:10 AM
Seen this link elsewhere.

NEW OWNER OF WEST BROM REVEALED

http://thebaggiesway.com/2015/07/05/new-owner-of-west-brom-revealed/

Having read this now it looks like another dose of the same cr-p papers have been feeding us for weeks sorry i got carried away when i saw the head lines. :'(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 13, 2015, 09:43:29 AM
Seen this link elsewhere.

NEW OWNER OF WEST BROM REVEALED

http://thebaggiesway.com/2015/07/05/new-owner-of-west-brom-revealed/

Having read this now it looks like another dose of the same cr-p papers have been feeding us for weeks sorry i got carried away when i saw the head lines. :'(

That's an old article from over a week ago
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBrainy on July 13, 2015, 07:56:13 PM
Its all abit worrying for me.

No solid news on any transfers.
No solid news on the new ownership.
And yet JP is preaching that it wont effect our transfer window?
It has already effected our transfer window ....
We are 19/20 in the spenders list and norwich are only below us because they signed dorrans in the winter window and mulumbu on a free ( good business for then )

We are going to be in the same position this season unless the club starts taking this division seriously.

We really need to start landing some of our targets and getting them a good pre-season with there new squad otherwise im afraid to say, I dont believe we will even be hitting 13th next season.

My bet is that Pulis will walk if something isnt sorted sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on July 13, 2015, 08:06:05 PM
13th wouldn't be successful for you ? Someone's going to be disappointed I think.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 13, 2015, 08:26:44 PM
Is that the height of our ambition? Finishing below halfway?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on July 13, 2015, 08:29:18 PM
Is that the height of our ambition? Finishing below halfway?
Unless this takeover brings changes then yes it is realistic, we aren't a mid table team at the moment unless we sign a couple of class players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 13, 2015, 08:36:08 PM
Fair point, but you are saying that if we don't get a takeover then Peace won't spend to make us aim a bit higher, and yet everyone on here say's what a great bloke Peace is?

The main reason we are seen as little West Brom, the chairman and some fan's have such low expectations.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on July 13, 2015, 09:17:59 PM
Fair point, but you are saying that if we don't get a takeover then Peace won't spend to make us aim a bit higher, and yet everyone on here say's what a great bloke Peace is?

The main reason we are seen as little West Brom, the chairman and some fan's have such low expectations.

Agreed, we know our place etc, we have to wait to do our business blah blah .


I'm bored of it all now , different year , same rubbish.Wake me up when your good and ready jezza .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 13, 2015, 09:22:50 PM
Fair point, but you are saying that if we don't get a takeover then Peace won't spend to make us aim a bit higher, and yet everyone on here say's what a great bloke Peace is?

The main reason we are seen as little West Brom, the chairman and some fan's have such low expectations.

He's not rich enough to take us higher than he already has (8th,11th,10th).  He'll continue to spend what we earn which isn't enough to take us higher.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on July 13, 2015, 09:27:12 PM
Is that the height of our ambition? Finishing below halfway?

8th. That is realistically as high as we can ever hope to finish thanks to the big boys shutting up shop at the top.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 13, 2015, 09:30:50 PM
Fair point, but you are saying that if we don't get a takeover then Peace won't spend to make us aim a bit higher, and yet everyone on here say's what a great bloke Peace is?

The main reason we are seen as little West Brom, the chairman and some fan's have such low expectations.
I've only heard us ever called little West Brom by our own fans... There maybe others but I bet they think every team is little other than their own and the top 7.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 13, 2015, 09:51:38 PM
This is the great myth there is no vault of unspent cash buried deep beneath the East Stand. In short the club spends pretty much every penny that comes in and most of it is spent on the playing staff. The club squeezes something like the 12th or 13th largest payroll out the 15th or 16th biggest turnover in the Premier League.

For the new owners to make any difference they will have to pump in about £30m a year to bring us level with West Ham and Villa. In year one we could probably achieve that by moving to deficit financing i.e spend next year's Premier League income now on the basis that of course spending a lot more money on the likes of Phillips will obviously insulate us against relegation (in your dreams).

If the unthinkable happens and we are relegated a bloody great chasm opens up in the accounts at that point one of three things happens

1. The owners stump up cash to balance the books and rebuild
2. They prop up the whole thing with debt which is sustainable for a while but has nasty habit of catching up with you latter
3. They sell everything that isn't nailed down in an attempt to balance the books

Now given I don't know who the owners are how deep their pockets are or their commitment to the club particularly one that is not basking in the limelight of the Premier League I might not be absolutely thrilled at the prospect of a post Peace world, where we just throw money at footballers in a vain glorious bid to acheive maybe 8th or 7th in the Premier League.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 13, 2015, 09:54:14 PM
I've only heard us ever called little West Brom by our own fans... There maybe others but I bet they think every team is little other than their own and the top 7.

1. I have heard Viler's referring to us 'little old Olbyun' quite a few times.

2. So yes in that sense you must indeed be correct because as everybody knows, the Vile are truly MASSIVE.
 ;).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 13, 2015, 10:11:09 PM
Fair point, but you are saying that if we don't get a takeover then Peace won't spend to make us aim a bit higher, and yet everyone on here say's what a great bloke Peace is?

The main reason we are seen as little West Brom, the chairman and some fan's have such low expectations.

Long may we be seen as 'little West Brom' when we are spanking Chelsea and winning at Old Trafford.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 13, 2015, 10:18:05 PM
I imagine any new owners would want acquisitions kept under wraps until they take the reins, Hopefully we will get a positive ownership statement followed up with a statement of intent on the signings front.

glass is half full tonight
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion Estate Baggie on July 13, 2015, 10:26:12 PM
This is the great myth there is no vault of unspent cash buried deep beneath the East Stand. In short the club spends pretty much every penny that comes in..

That's not really 100% true though is it.

For the two seasons leading up to last summer our accounts showed a combined profit of almost £20M, and that's without any profit last season would surely have added to it.

I'm not going to knock Peace for the sake of it, the bottom line is that his job is to keep us in the premier league and he has done that for a few years now, for that he deserves credit but let's not pretend we have spent everything that has come in, we haven't.
The extra money that could and should have been put into the team might have meant the difference between having Anichebe or Bony, the difference between Davidson and Cresswell.
Overall Peace has done a good job, just imagine how much better it might have been had his priorities been a little more towards progress and a little less aimed at profits.

He's a businessman that has made a fortune out of the club already and his final, massive, pay off now appears to be only days away, let's not pretend he's some kind of cross between our fairy godmother and the tooth fairy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 13, 2015, 11:16:42 PM
That's not really 100% true though is it.

For the two seasons leading up to last summer our accounts showed a combined profit of almost £20M, and that's without any profit last season would surely have added to it.

I'm not going to knock Peace for the sake of it, the bottom line is that his job is to keep us in the premier league and he has done that for a few years now, for that he deserves credit but let's not pretend we have spent everything that has come in, we haven't.
The extra money that could and should have been put into the team might have meant the difference between having Anichebe or Bony, the difference between Davidson and Cresswell.
Overall Peace has done a good job, just imagine how much better it might have been had his priorities been a little more towards progress and a little less aimed at profits.

He's a businessman that has made a fortune out of the club already and his final, massive, pay off now appears to be only days away, let's not pretend he's some kind of cross between our fairy godmother and the tooth fairy.

Bony cost £28mil + prob 100k a week in wages + would he have joined us instead of man city ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 13, 2015, 11:24:24 PM
Fair point, but you are saying that if we don't get a takeover then Peace won't spend to make us aim a bit higher, and yet everyone on here say's what a great bloke Peace is?

The main reason we are seen as little West Brom, the chairman and some fan's have such low expectations.
Are we really seen as 'little West Brom' though, and by who? Some Chinese/Indian fans half way around the world who know f-all about football? I genuinely don't care.

Any football fan worth their salt will know about us and our history, we're not 'little' by any means, and we never have been. Historically we're a top-flight club, and that is where we are right now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 13, 2015, 11:34:07 PM
Bony cost £28mil + prob 100k a week in wages + would he have joined us instead of man city ?

Bony cost Swansea £12m when we were apparently looking at signing him. They did very well selling him on for £16m profit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 14, 2015, 12:22:28 AM
That's not really 100% true though is it.

For the two seasons leading up to last summer our accounts showed a combined profit of almost £20M, and that's without any profit last season would surely have added to it.

I'm not going to knock Peace for the sake of it, the bottom line is that his job is to keep us in the premier league and he has done that for a few years now, for that he deserves credit but let's not pretend we have spent everything that has come in, we haven't.
The extra money that could and should have been put into the team might have meant the difference between having Anichebe or Bony, the difference between Davidson and Cresswell.
Overall Peace has done a good job, just imagine how much better it might have been had his priorities been a little more towards progress and a little less aimed at profits.

He's a businessman that has made a fortune out of the club already and his final, massive, pay off now appears to be only days away, let's not pretend he's some kind of cross between our fairy godmother and the tooth fairy.

Actually it is 100% true look at the accounts there is no great cash reserve nor has the company paid a dividend so therefore the £6m net profit from 2013 has been reinvested in the club in the form of higher wages and fees. I cannot say where the £10m net profit  from last year has ended up but I am willing to hazard a guess. 

Everybody points at the successful transfers that cost more that we might have got although nobody ever points out the unsuccessful ones. If you look at Bony you also have to take account that we could have just as easily signed Wolfwinkel (or do we hastily delete all those that's a proper statement of intent posts). We could have signed Creswell even within our current budget but instead of Pocognoli and Davidson one of whom was always going to be surplus to requirements although both have been rendered redundant by the appointment of  Pulis as would Cresswell in all likelihood.

Ultimately we lost the plot when we didn't replace Ashworth with a Director of Football who could tell Clarke to do one when he had his own transfer agenda which featured Nicholas Anelka and we are now back in the unenviable position of competing in the English market without the resources to get the quality we would like.

New ownership might change that in the sense they might be prepared to underwrite losses on players but the new ownership does nothing to change the basic economics that confront the club. If we are spending more than we earn we are either racking up debt or being subsidised which is fine as long as the ownership is prepared to do that or our creditors don't want to foreclose. Personally I would rather be run along the lines the Peace Ashworth combination managed but that is a ship that has long gone. I await the bright new dawn we a certain amount of trepidation.       

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 14, 2015, 04:16:08 AM
Bony cost Swansea £12m when we were apparently looking at signing him. They did very well selling him on for £16m profit.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.  We signed ideye. I wish he'd turned out as good as bony. Maybe next season!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on July 14, 2015, 04:44:18 AM
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.  We signed ideye. I wish he'd turned out as good as bony. Maybe next season!

Who knows with a full pre-season behind him and hopefully no injuries between now and the start we may see a different player, hopefully a better one! Look at Falcao at Man Utd, world class striker but just did not do it there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion Estate Baggie on July 14, 2015, 06:48:37 AM
Bony cost £28mil + prob 100k a week in wages + would he have joined us instead of man city ?

Not when he signed for Swansea he didn't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion Estate Baggie on July 14, 2015, 06:53:46 AM
Actually it is 100% true look at the accounts there is no great cash reserve nor has the company paid a dividend so therefore the £6m net profit from 2013 has been reinvested in the club in the form of higher wages and fees. I cannot say where the £10m net profit  from last year has ended up but I am willing to hazard a guess. 


Surely you can't state something is 100% true in one sentence and then admit you are hazarding a guess in the next.
And don't forget, FFP rules state that we are not allowed to increase the wage bill by more than £4M per year, or do you think we have broken these rules ?

I'm not knocking the overall job he has done BTW, I wouldn't mind at all if he called the sale off and stayed, I'm just pointing out that the union between the club and Peace has been as beneficial to him as it has been for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 14, 2015, 07:52:38 AM
Actually it is 100% true look at the accounts there is no great cash reserve nor has the company paid a dividend so therefore the £6m net profit from 2013 has been reinvested in the club in the form of higher wages and fees. I cannot say where the £10m net profit  from last year has ended up but I am willing to hazard a guess. 

Everybody points at the successful transfers that cost more that we might have got although nobody ever points out the unsuccessful ones. If you look at Bony you also have to take account that we could have just as easily signed Wolfwinkel (or do we hastily delete all those that's a proper statement of intent posts). We could have signed Creswell even within our current budget but instead of Pocognoli and Davidson one of whom was always going to be surplus to requirements although both have been rendered redundant by the appointment of  Pulis as would Cresswell in all likelihood.

Ultimately we lost the plot when we didn't replace Ashworth with a Director of Football who could tell Clarke to do one when he had his own transfer agenda which featured Nicholas Anelka and we are now back in the unenviable position of competing in the English market without the resources to get the quality we would like.

New ownership might change that in the sense they might be prepared to underwrite losses on players but the new ownership does nothing to change the basic economics that confront the club. If we are spending more than we earn we are either racking up debt or being subsidised which is fine as long as the ownership is prepared to do that or our creditors don't want to foreclose. Personally I would rather be run along the lines the Peace Ashworth combination managed but that is a ship that has long gone. I await the bright new dawn we a certain amount of trepidation.       

Superb post.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 14, 2015, 09:01:49 AM
Surely you can't state something is 100% true in one sentence and then admit you are hazarding a guess in the next.
And don't forget, FFP rules state that we are not allowed to increase the wage bill by more than £4M per year, or do you think we have broken these rules ?

I can on the basis that the club did not pay a dividend and therefore the profit of £10m was retained what I cannot say is where the money went but on the basis of past performance I am willing to take a bet it went on wages.

Yes we probably bust the FFP rules wide open. Why? Because they only apply to this year's TV revenue but they cannot regulate what we do with retained profit so we could increase the wage bill by £14m.  I believe signing on fees for free transfers are booked as wages rather than fees so a £4m cap would have precluded us from signing Lescott and Gardner.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 14, 2015, 09:47:02 AM
Not when he signed for Swansea he didn't.

So can you tell me which unproven premiership striker we should invest £20mil in this close season? (I'm allowing for transfer fee  inflation.) It's not so easy to make these calls up front. I guess we had our own valuation of him at the time and wouldn't exceed it. Of course, with hindsight, he was a great investment.  We'd have had to have outbid Swansea at the time so he'd have been >£12mil.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 14, 2015, 09:52:46 AM
So can you tell me which unproven premiership striker we should invest £20mil in this close season? (I'm allowing for transfer fee  inflation.) It's not so easy to make these calls up front. I guess we had our own valuation of him at the time and wouldn't exceed it. Of course, with hindsight, he was a great investment.  We'd have had to have outbid Swansea at the time so he'd have been >£12mil.

Bony had a very indifferent season last season, he had a great spell at Swansea, but had other periods where he struggled to score, strikers are a strange commodity, they blow hot and cold, its only the best who score consistently, I'm not convinced Bony is in that category yet, Swansea made a great profit though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 14, 2015, 09:55:37 AM
I thought the reason we didn't actually go ALL OUT for Bony was there was a big expectation that Lukaku was coming back.

Yes Bony was a success but everyone knows that a player from the Dutch league who scores a load of goals may not do that in England. Lukaku on the other hand is all our time top flight goal scorer - so even for one more season it was a safer better but then Everton came in at the last minute. Poor planning for sure but there's a lot of Captain Hindsights on this thread.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on July 14, 2015, 09:57:21 AM
I can on the basis that the club did not pay a dividend and therefore the profit of £10m was retained what I cannot say is where the money went but on the basis of past performance I am willing to take a bet it went on wages.

Yes we probably bust the FFP rules wide open. Why? Because they only apply to this year's TV revenue but they cannot regulate what we do with retained profit so we could increase the wage bill by £14m.  I believe signing on fees for free transfers are booked as wages rather than fees so a £4m cap would have precluded us from signing Lescott and Gardner.

Peace did pay himself a salary of over £1m last financial year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 14, 2015, 10:14:43 AM
So £19k a week?  I guess we could of signed a decent mid-table Championship Striker for free if he hadn't of taken any money for himself.  :'(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 14, 2015, 10:14:57 AM
So can you tell me which unproven premiership striker we should invest £20mil in this close season? (I'm allowing for transfer fee  inflation.) It's not so easy to make these calls up front. I guess we had our own valuation of him at the time and wouldn't exceed it. Of course, with hindsight, he was a great investment.  We'd have had to have outbid Swansea at the time so he'd have been >£12mil.

The fact is we won't pay the going rate for a player full stop. Bony was expensive by our standards granted but we also shyed away from Mbokani the same summer who eventually went for around £7m a little more expensive than Anichebe. Historically our scouts have identified some very good players but we just simply cannot complete deals for them and end up settling for second best. This summer will be no different.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 14, 2015, 10:16:59 AM
So £19k a week?  I guess we could of signed a decent mid-table Championship Striker for free if he hadn't of taken any money for himself.  :'(

The average Chief exec salary for a company of this size is £250K. JP pays himself way in excess of this. I believe Jenkins earns over £500K too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 14, 2015, 10:18:02 AM
Peace did pay himself a salary of over £1m last financial year.
So what, we pay players more than that and they don't run the club :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 14, 2015, 10:21:52 AM
The average Chief exec salary for a company of this size is £250K. JP pays himself way in excess of this. I believe Jenkins earns over £500K too.

1) source of average salary please or is this a figure to justify an argument

2) Surly you should compare apples with apples and not a bunch of grapes

3) What is average salary of the premier league chairmen and owners?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 14, 2015, 10:24:25 AM
1) source of average salary please or is this a figure to justify an argument

2) Surly you should compare apples with apples and not a bunch of grapes

3) What is average salary of the premier league chairmen and owners?

OK so this article may be a little out of date but highlights some of the figures.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/18/premier-league-directors-earnings
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 14, 2015, 10:29:28 AM
I think I read accumulated profit of £36m over the last 4 years of complete accounts.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 14, 2015, 10:33:49 AM
The average Chief exec salary for a company of this size is £250K. JP pays himself way in excess of this. I believe Jenkins earns over £500K too.

Skewed statistic - different roles and responsibilities. Peace is at the top of the company, many Chief Execs in the companies you're comparing them to will usually sit underneath boards of directors, who are appointed by shareholders, and report to higher levels of the company. CEOs aren't always owners of their companies. £250k for a CEO is not the same for the salary a majority shareholder and owner of a company would make.

I'll point out again that there are people in football who make more money per year, that do less than Mr. Peace. Levy at Spurs earns over £2m, David Gill at United was on £2.6m. Cortese at Southampton was on £2.2m. So beating Peace with that stick, there are far worse across the country. In fact with the last set of details, 8 clubs paid a director more than JP, and of those who didn't the Managing Director or Chief Executive that was paid the most, ISN'T the owner and majority shareholder of the club. Can't see anything wrong with that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 14, 2015, 11:00:00 AM
Frankly Peace could pay himself a lot more in dividend than he does in salary and there aren't many industries where the Chairman and Chief executive are not the top earners in the company as others have pointed out Peace's wage is barely the price of a Championship level player. I do not know why fans have the expectation that an owner is not going to take a profit from owning an asset that is worth £100m plus. In this instance most of that profit will be in the form of a return when the club is sold.

With regard to £38m of accrued profit in the last 4 years I'm pretty sure that is the gross figure so money that has been paid to the tax man has gone. However unless there are large cash balances or a dividend payment the money has either been spent on tangible (e.g.buildings)  or intangible  assets (e.g. players contracts) and or used to cover increases in our current operating expenses.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 14, 2015, 11:00:34 AM
Has he gone yet?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 14, 2015, 12:03:52 PM
look at it this way;  if at the time Peace took over a magician arrived and said give me £10million and I'll ensure you're in the premier league for the next 6 seasons it would have been a no brainer. £10million would have been a great investment given what the club would earn from being in the premiership. Turning West Brom into an established premier league club without investing vast sums of his own money is to my mind a remarkable achievement.  I doubt he's paid himself £10million; his big pay day was always based on increasing the value of his asset/shares and then selling. His plan could only work if he made WBAFC a success. Everyone's a winner.

Now stop moaning.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 14, 2015, 02:21:19 PM

Now stop moaning.

Dream on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 14, 2015, 02:55:38 PM
Skewed statistic - different roles and responsibilities. Peace is at the top of the company, many Chief Execs in the companies you're comparing them to will usually sit underneath boards of directors, who are appointed by shareholders, and report to higher levels of the company. CEOs aren't always owners of their companies. £250k for a CEO is not the same for the salary a majority shareholder and owner of a company would make.

I'll point out again that there are people in football who make more money per year, that do less than Mr. Peace. Levy at Spurs earns over £2m, David Gill at United was on £2.6m. Cortese at Southampton was on £2.2m. So beating Peace with that stick, there are far worse across the country. In fact with the last set of details, 8 clubs paid a director more than JP, and of those who didn't the Managing Director or Chief Executive that was paid the most, ISN'T the owner and majority shareholder of the club. Can't see anything wrong with that.

JP is entitled to pay himself what he wants within reason but my argument is that it seems excessive for a club of our size and profit made. The names you mention there are at bigger clubs. A basic salary plus dividends taken on performance is how the majority of directors pay themselves. Does he have a flex down in salary in the event of relegation? I wonder how much time he spends working for us taking into account his many other business interests?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 14, 2015, 03:10:50 PM
look at it this way;  if at the time Peace took over a magician arrived and said give me £10million and I'll ensure you're in the premier league for the next 6 seasons it would have been a no brainer. £10million would have been a great investment given what the club would earn from being in the premiership. Turning West Brom into an established premier league club without investing vast sums of his own money is to my mind a remarkable achievement.  I doubt he's paid himself £10million; his big pay day was always based on increasing the value of his asset/shares and then selling. His plan could only work if he made WBAFC a success. Everyone's a winner.

Now stop moaning.

What if he's have said give me £160m?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 14, 2015, 04:06:58 PM
Villa's takeover has fallen through after exclusivity.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on July 14, 2015, 04:24:12 PM
Villa's takeover has fallen through after exclusivity.
wonder if this could impact our sale?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on July 14, 2015, 04:37:03 PM
Villa's takeover has fallen through after exclusivity.

Any word on who the not interested party is?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 14, 2015, 04:43:52 PM
Their fallen through take over wont affect them the way ours take over has.
They have already been active in the transfer market while we seem to be in limbo......or is that the usual transfer window for us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 14, 2015, 05:01:13 PM
Do you think they've announced that so our interested party may now think twice about buying us. You never know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 14, 2015, 05:02:36 PM
What if he's have said give me £160m?

If he could guarantee us staying up for 6 seasons it'd probably have still been a good deal. Just shows how good value JP has been for us, I reckon in salary he's not even had the £10mil.

The money for the any sale  of the club will not come out of the club; it will come from the investors. The club will still be worth the same after the sale; and more if they invest/manage it well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 14, 2015, 06:11:52 PM
He bought shares off the shareholders, who were Albion through and through. He then valued the club at £7m.

He now want's to sell it for £150m.

He hasn't made any significant ground improvements and we are still a struggling prem side.

Why the enormous leap in evaluation?

Peace has been good for us, pah, he has been good for himself.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 14, 2015, 06:24:00 PM
He bought shares off the shareholders, who were Albion through and through. He then valued the club at £7m.

He now want's to sell it for £150m.

He hasn't made any significant ground improvements and we are still a struggling prem side.

Why the enormous leap in evaluation?

Peace has been good for us, pah, he has been good for himself.

Mate you're starting to remind me of this dingle by me who grew up in the 50s and still believes Wolves have a divine right to be top 4 in the top division.

If you can't see what Peace has done for this club I don't know where you have been for the last 10 or so years. Our most successful period for three decades thanks to him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 14, 2015, 06:31:09 PM
He bought shares off the shareholders, who were Albion through and through. He then valued the club at £7m.

He now want's to sell it for £150m.

He hasn't made any significant ground improvements and we are still a struggling prem side.

Why the enormous leap in evaluation?

Peace has been good for us, pah, he has been good for himself.

So good to himself he bought shares with a face value of £10 for hundreds of pounds each. His sale of the club will put individual shares up in value for remaining shareholders, to the tune discussed via Shareholders 4 Albion of several thousands per share. He's leaving the place a lot healthier than you give him credit for.

Are you not happy he's going?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 14, 2015, 06:43:12 PM
He bought shares off the shareholders, who were Albion through and through. He then valued the club at £7m.

He now want's to sell it for £150m.

He hasn't made any significant ground improvements and we are still a struggling prem side.

Why the enormous leap in evaluation?

Peace has been good for us, pah, he has been good for himself.

it's worth what someone will pay. the value of the club has increased massively,  this has been achieved by careful management and securing us in the premier league which puts the club in line for millions upon millions of TV revenue. If he'd managed us badly, and say we'd ended up in league 1, he'd of lost, other shareholders would've lost, and the supporters would've lost, in terms of supporting a league 1 club instead of a premier league one.

I know for one, I've enjoyed having the bragging rights over the dingles for most of the last 10 years and finishing above the Villa several times (something I thought I'd never see again in the late eighties).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 14, 2015, 07:12:53 PM
Oh my word this JP debate has gone back and forth, back and forth for so long, talking about the same thing.. Just accept you disagree with each other. Its getting rather boring lads. Let's talk about the actual takeover (although news is thin on he ground!)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 14, 2015, 07:20:26 PM
He bought shares off the shareholders, who were Albion through and through. He then valued the club at £7m.

He now want's to sell it for £150m.

He hasn't made any significant ground improvements and we are still a struggling prem side.

Why the enormous leap in evaluation?

Peace has been good for us, pah, he has been good for himself.
It's not rocket science is it, or are you being argumentative for the sake of it?
Football is like any other business; shares will rise with the success of the business. When he took over we were in the championship, maybe getting £10 million per season from TV money, now we're in the premiership, maybe getting £100 million per season from TV money (for example).

It's not hard to understand why the clubs value has risen massively.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 14, 2015, 07:22:21 PM
Most likely end up like the Villa with potentials pulling out, surely if there was any concrete evidence we were to be taken over we would have purchased Matt Phillips by now
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on July 14, 2015, 07:27:25 PM
Well having read today that the Aston Villa Takeover has collapsed, Im praying ours doesn’t go the same way. :o Plus its not long till the start of the new season, and all we have signed is James McLean a winger who was relegated with Wigan last season, not really a stella signing.

Ive recently purchased a season ticket, been a season ticket holder for years, was hoping that it might have been a new dawn and new era for us, but the more we go without any signings the more Im thinking this might not happen. Hope Im proved wrong.. ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 14, 2015, 07:35:05 PM
Most likely end up like the Villa with potentials pulling out, surely if there was any concrete evidence we were to be taken over we would have purchased Matt Phillips by now
could someone enlighten me, if the club did purchase players to the tune of 10 million when in the process of being sold who or would this be detrimental to, the new owners or Jeremy peace. or no one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 14, 2015, 09:21:48 PM
I agree with the stance being taken re phillips deal.

No way is he worth 10m. At a stretch maybe 7m.

When i read about the dark side's takeover collapsing the first thing i thought was the ultimate nightmare scenario of our prospective buyers jumping ship to them enticed by a new lower selling price.

Any financial penalty for dropping out of negotiations with us would be offset by a lower asking price by the vilest.

Fingers crossed none of this comes to pass.

Rumour is the buyer looking at us was also looking at them but was upset when randy gave exclusivity to another intetested buyer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aixelsyd on July 14, 2015, 10:02:54 PM
I may be mistaken BUT Exclusivity agreements cut both ways.

Our "Buyer" can not look at another Premier League club while the agreement is in place (just as JP can not talk with other buyers).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 14, 2015, 10:40:27 PM
could someone enlighten me, if the club did purchase players to the tune of 10 million when in the process of being sold who or would this be detrimental to, the new owners or Jeremy peace. or no one.

Nobody. The money used for transfers is the clubs money made through revenue, absolutely nothing to do with the current or future owners. If new owners want to throw their own money into the transfer pot then expect more signings with larger fees. If they don't, we'll continue to use the money available from the clubs revenue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 14, 2015, 10:57:12 PM
Nobody. The money used for transfers is the clubs money made through revenue, absolutely nothing to do with the current or future owners. If new owners want to throw their own money into the transfer pot then expect more signings with larger fees. If they don't, we'll continue to use the money available from the clubs revenue.
cheers Psalm for enlightening me I am not to savvy regarding football finances. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 15, 2015, 12:21:41 AM
I may be mistaken BUT Exclusivity agreements cut both ways.

Our "Buyer" can not look at another Premier League club while the agreement is in place (just as JP can not talk with other buyers).
cost them 2 million to walk away plus their lawyers fees
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 15, 2015, 01:06:47 PM
Most likely end up like the Villa with potentials pulling out, surely if there was any concrete evidence we were to be taken over we would have purchased Matt Phillips by now

eh?

2+2 = 7 there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 15, 2015, 04:11:48 PM
Most likely end up like the Villa with potentials pulling out, surely if there was any concrete evidence we were to be taken over we would have purchased Matt Phillips by now
Only 16 days to wait ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 15, 2015, 04:33:06 PM
I think the whole thing has been one big con. Just another excuse to go into a new season with no new faces,please someone prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 15, 2015, 04:47:13 PM
I think the whole thing has been one big con. Just another excuse to go into a new season with no new faces,please someone prove me wrong.
Why would we do that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on July 15, 2015, 04:47:50 PM
I think the whole thing has been one big con. Just another excuse to go into a new season with no new faces,please someone prove me wrong.

We have Pulis at the helm now, he wouldn't put up with that. We'd have signed Phillips by now if QPR weren't putting an unrealistic price on him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wardy65 on July 15, 2015, 05:30:04 PM
The reason it's taking so long to get sorted, is because of all the checks that have to be done on prospective new owners these days, & rightly so. These things do take time, but better we do them than get the wrong types of people in!
Interestingly, I was told by a good source that the reason we haven't gone up to 10 million for Phillips, is simply because of Pulis & not because the club aren't willing to pay it. TP has a valuation & won't let the club spend over the odds.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 15, 2015, 05:41:53 PM
The reason it's taking so long to get sorted, is because of all the checks that have to be done on prospective new owners these days, & rightly so. These things do take time, but better we do them than get the wrong types of people in!
Interestingly, I was told by a good source that the reason we haven't gone up to 10 million for Phillips, is simply because of Pulis & not because the club aren't willing to pay it. TP has a valuation & won't let the club spend over the odds.

This can't be right surely? The proposed takeover must be delayed because JP is an evil wizard and doesn't really want to sell he just wants to shift more season tickets and replica tops. He has no interest in selling for millions, why would he want to go and make himself massively wealthy when he could be spending time making Albion fans miserable?

And Pulis is having a say in transfers? Nonsense. Everyone knows that Richard Garlick is a malevolent dwarf king who is secretly plotting to deny Pulis any player he really wants before forcing some Spanish second division Patagonian B internationals on him, thus also forcing Pulis to walk out on the club.

I mean it's obvious to anyone isn't it?

Both Peace and Garlick want nothing more than to see the club fail, and fail dramatically before walking off giggling into the sunset leaving nothing but the smoking ruins of the East Stand behind them.

Someone please prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: matt_home1 on July 15, 2015, 05:42:15 PM
WBA are advertising for a new FD, it seems strange to me if the takeover was so close, as the new owners would surely want their own man in
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 15, 2015, 05:43:16 PM
Maybe the new owners have put vacancy out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 15, 2015, 05:46:42 PM
This can't be right surely? The proposed takeover must be delayed because JP is an evil wizard and doesn't really want to sell he just wants to shift more season tickets and replica tops. He has no interest in selling for millions, why would he want to go and make himself massively wealthy when he could be spending time making Albion fans miserable?

And Pulis is having a say in transfers? Nonsense. Everyone knows that Richard Garlick is a malevolent dwarf king who is secretly plotting to deny Pulis any player he really wants before forcing some Spanish second division Patagonian B internationals on him, thus forcing Pulis to walk out on the club.

I mean it's obvious to anyone isn't it?

Both Peace and Garlick want nothing more than to see the club fail, and fail dramatically before walking off giggling into the sunset leaving nothing but the smoking ruins if the East Stand behind them.

Someone please prove me wrong.

Cracking post, I'd written something similar but yours says it better and with humour!

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 15, 2015, 05:49:00 PM
Rumours on Twitter that the deal was signed off last week.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 15, 2015, 05:51:16 PM
Rumours on Twitter that the deal was signed off last week.

Just to add a bit more to this, source is from journo Alan Nixon. He has alluded to it twice now in the last few days, I seen him mention it a few days ago also.

Alan Nixon ‏@reluctantnicko
@RSR20553 West Brom contract was signed over a wek ago ... but no announcement ... odd. No new word on transfers. Phillis, Hennessy target.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bigrob80 on July 15, 2015, 06:34:57 PM
Possibly the fact that most of the Albion are in America???? I am only guessing though!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 15, 2015, 06:38:11 PM
I think the whole thing has been one big con. Just another excuse to go into a new season with no new faces,please someone prove me wrong.

Mate I sat this candidly - let your disappointment re shares go, move on and stop repeating the same dismal predictions, be patient, look forward with optimism your life will become better and your posts will be creatively more interesting ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Yamaka on July 15, 2015, 06:49:33 PM
Is he not an inspiration though? Be honest we would miss his posts and Chipperfan has by proxy certainly been creative enough for me today  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 15, 2015, 06:58:06 PM
The fit and proper test is a joke.

Cellino at Leeds failed it and was still allowed to takeover.

Then he got done for tax evasion and was banned until April 2015 i think with his son taking the helm until he returned.

The rules haven't detered him from anything as he's recently been charged by the italian authourities for evading tax on the purchase of a range rover.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 15, 2015, 08:13:18 PM
Just to add a bit more to this, source is from journo Alan Nixon. He has alluded to it twice now in the last few days, I seen him mention it a few days ago also.

Alan Nixon ‏@reluctantnicko
@RSR20553 West Brom contract was signed over a wek ago ... but no announcement ... odd. No new word on transfers. Phillis, Hennessy target.

Signed off? You mean the takeover was finalised.. Or scrapped?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 15, 2015, 08:37:39 PM
Signed off? You mean the takeover was finalised.. Or scrapped?

He is implying it was as good as finalized last week. If that is true who knows. Seems a decent journo though. He also said they were Chinese in the next tweet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 15, 2015, 08:45:23 PM
This long drawn out saga is becoming a bit of a laughing stock. The sooner an announcement is made the better. It can't be very helpful when we are trying to sign new players, hence we have only added an average Championship player to date.  The new season is less than a month away.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 15, 2015, 09:05:30 PM
This long drawn out saga is becoming a bit of a laughing stock. The sooner an announcement is made the better. It can't be very helpful when we are trying to sign new players, hence we have only added an average Championship player to date.  The new season is less than a month away.
is it? most folk outside the club & it's online fanbase either don't know or don't care.

if we DO sell this month, then that's a public sale of around 8 months . Lerner's been trying to sell Villa for 2 YEARS now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 15, 2015, 09:06:23 PM
This long drawn out saga is becoming a bit of a laughing stock. The sooner an announcement is made the better. It can't be very helpful when we are trying to sign new players, hence we have only added an average Championship player to date.  The new season is less than a month away.

Who exactly is laughing? Do you imagine that £150m deals are done over a sandwich and a pint at lunch time in the pub?

For goodness sake, it may or may not happen, but whatever the case the club is right in taking its time and being cautious. This is quite probably the most important decision that has been made in the club's history. Do you really think they will rush it because a few vocal supporters are getting squeaky bums, or because some footballer is hesitating over whether to come here if not, or because some greedy Championship outfit is trying to wring a few bob more out if them?

These people are hard nosed, professional business people. If and when the deal gets done it will be because everyone involved feels that is the right outcome for all concerned. Until then no amount of keyboard bombast and bluster will change things.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 15, 2015, 09:12:59 PM
Mate I sat this candidly - let your disappointment re shares go, move on and stop repeating the same dismal predictions, be patient, look forward with optimism your life will become better and your posts will be creatively more interesting ;)

If i didn't care about the club so much i would chill. Some chance of that.
I am not normally so pessemistic,it's just that when we sign player's or have something to announce we seem to take an age.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on July 15, 2015, 09:45:06 PM
is it? most folk outside the club & it's online fanbase either don't know or don't care.

if we DO sell this month, then that's a public sale of around 8 months . Lerner's been trying to sell Villa for 2 YEARS now.

That's a very good point. It's probably about as 'in and out' as you could get with the sale of a 150 million pound premier league business, in the constant eyes of the media and all the other guff that comes with it. I'm sure people think Jeremy should've just handed over his share certs in a brown paper back whilst disguised as burger van man on the brummie rd.....after given them the time it takes to have a pint to make a decision. In my opinion, quiet is good and things are progressing. Big mouths cost people with money......money!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 15, 2015, 09:48:17 PM
If I was the new owner as of last week with a few quid to spend maybe I'd stay quiet until a few bids for key players were accepted rather than risk the selling club seeing £ signs as a new owner with cash approaches a sought after player?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aixelsyd on July 15, 2015, 10:06:31 PM
Chinese like lucky numbers ;)

maybe announcing on the 8th of the 8th is "very auspicious"

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 15, 2015, 10:32:29 PM
I think he deserves to be up there with the top earners, without his goals we would have struggled to stay up
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on July 15, 2015, 10:37:58 PM
I think he deserves to be up there with the top earners, without his goals we would have struggled to stay up

Are you cryptically suggesting that Saido is the mystery investor in talks to buy the club?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 15, 2015, 11:00:28 PM
Who exactly is laughing? Do you imagine that £150m deals are done over a sandwich and a pint at lunch time in the pub?

For goodness sake, it may or may not happen, but whatever the case the club is right in taking its time and being cautious. This is quite probably the most important decision that has been made in the club's history. Do you really think they will rush it because a few vocal supporters are getting squeaky bums, or because some footballer is hesitating over whether to come here if not, or because some greedy Championship outfit is trying to wring a few bob more out if them?

These people are hard nosed, professional business people. If and when the deal gets done it will be because everyone involved feels that is the right outcome for all concerned. Until then no amount of keyboard bombast and bluster will change things.

Well put Chipper  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 15, 2015, 11:08:09 PM
If i didn't care about the club so much i would chill. Some chance of that.
I am not normally so pessemistic,it's just that when we sign player's or have something to announce we seem to take an age.
That is what we have we always done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 16, 2015, 01:46:41 AM
If I was the new owner as of last week with a few quid to spend maybe I'd stay quiet until a few bids for key players were accepted rather than risk the selling club seeing £ signs as a new owner with cash approaches a sought after player?

That's a good point if there is any truth of a takeover last week and an announcement being delayed until the end of the month to get players in at not inflated prices based on any known takeover. However I would think it would be difficult to keep under wraps and would surely leak out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 16, 2015, 06:53:06 AM
Are you cryptically suggesting that Saido is the mystery investor in talks to buy the club?

Haha, don't know how I managed to post that on the wrong thread.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 16, 2015, 08:40:14 AM
If i didn't care about the club so much i would chill. Some chance of that.
I am not normally so pessimistic,it's just that when we sign player's or have something to announce we seem to take an age.

At least you recognise you have an obsession, understandably so, but you have supported the Baggies nearly as long as me so you ought to recognise that it has always been the same. The ultimate roller coaster ride, one day full of hope, the next aspirations dashed, whether that be beating top teams or losing to non-leaguers, buying players with reputations who fail (David Mills) or those with non who succeed (The King, Cyrille Regis). From opposition players on a goal drought who inevitably break their poor run by scoring against us. Poor managers, great managers, mad mangers, soft managers, disciplinarians = we've had em all .

This take over is just the same as is our transfer window performance - relax
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on July 16, 2015, 08:50:12 AM
With the initial exclusivity statement being released two weeks ago, give it till the end of the month until before we see anything happening. As the season kicks off a week earlier than usual expect a busy first week in August and Sky Sports to show up at the training ground on deadline day.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on July 16, 2015, 04:55:34 PM
Lets hope our does not fizzle out like our chums has down the road....I think ( hope) it will all end in tears for Tiny Tim and the t***pots.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 16, 2015, 06:09:19 PM
At least you recognise you have an obsession, understandably so, but you have supported the Baggies nearly as long as me so you ought to recognise that it has always been the same. The ultimate roller coaster ride, one day full of hope, the next aspirations dashed, whether that be beating top teams or losing to non-leaguers, buying players with reputations who fail (David Mills) or those with non who succeed (The King, Cyrille Regis). From opposition players on a goal drought who inevitably break their poor run by scoring against us. Poor managers, great managers, mad mangers, soft managers, disciplinarians = we've had em all .

This take over is just the same as is our transfer window performance - relax

I know mate, tell the truth i am starting to bore myself let alone folks on here. I just wish something would happen, a takeover, a status quo, even dare i dream a signing. ANYTHING.   :-\
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on July 16, 2015, 06:15:05 PM
I know mate, tell the truth i am starting to bore myself let alone folks on here. I just wish something would happen, a takeover, a status quo, even dare i dream a signing. ANYTHING.   :-\

Always good to have different opinions otherwise we would bore easily.

I honestly think we might see some action when they come back from America. 3 weeks is a long time and for me we only need a couple of additions that are vital.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 16, 2015, 06:22:56 PM
I know mate, tell the truth i am starting to bore myself let alone folks on here. I just wish something would happen, a takeover, a status quo, even dare i dream a signing. ANYTHING.   :-\

 :) At least we can laugh about it, that black country humour never leaves it's part of being a Baggie 8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on July 16, 2015, 06:29:25 PM
Well at least Fireymoose isn't here anymore, he'd be having a field day with all this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on July 16, 2015, 07:04:18 PM
Well at least Fireymoose isn't here anymore, he'd be having a field day with all this.

He would probably say he was the head of the Consortium ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie53 on July 16, 2015, 07:25:06 PM
Well at least Fireymoose isn't here anymore, he'd be having a field day with all this.
I forgot about him, he was quite entertaining at times
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 16, 2015, 07:36:59 PM
Well at least Fireymoose isn't here anymore, he'd be having a field day with all this.


I wouldnt be at all suprised if hes here as someone else, but who
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 16, 2015, 07:43:21 PM

I wouldnt be at all suprised if hes here as someone else, but who

"I'm Sparticus" ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 16, 2015, 08:03:50 PM

I wouldnt be at all suprised if hes here as someone else, but who

If he is then he won't be around long. Amazing how some constantly moan about us and how we run the forum yet can't wait to try and get back on.

AS FOR THE TAKE OVER THEN  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 16, 2015, 10:28:01 PM
Well at least Fireymoose isn't here anymore, he'd be having a field day with all this.

A blast from the past, the man who know everything but know F-All  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on July 16, 2015, 10:41:10 PM
If he is then he won't be around long. Amazing how some constantly moan about us and how we run the forum yet can't wait to try and get back on.

AS FOR THE TAKE OVER THEN  ;)
I know how you feel mate.
The rest of us are very supportive of you and your team,
Long may it continue Mr Oldbury and mukkas!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 17, 2015, 08:27:34 AM
I was reading on skysports site it takes weeks and weeks to get through all the premier league tests..maybe the end of the month is a good date for an announcement then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 18, 2015, 06:46:41 PM
Apparently according to Nixon on Twitter the takeover is looking good and the owner has loads of money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sooty2 on July 18, 2015, 07:09:40 PM
Yes it was me he as just answered hope he speaks the truth could be an interesting 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on July 18, 2015, 07:48:44 PM
Apparently according to Nixon on Twitter the takeover is looking good and the owner has loads of money.
Go on then I'll bite!
Who/what is 'Nixon' on twitter?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 18, 2015, 07:53:57 PM
Go on then I'll bite!
Who/what is 'Nixon' on twitter?

Alan Nixon, quite reliable. A journalist for the sun I think
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 18, 2015, 08:10:09 PM
It's the sun?

It must be true then.

More likely it's bill ayres, local shed maker made good.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: fatboy_coach on July 18, 2015, 08:21:14 PM
It's the sun?

It must be true then.

More likely it's bill ayres, local shed maker made good.

We've had Trev the Shed, so why not!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 18, 2015, 09:05:21 PM
Wonder if we can get this to 70 pages before an announcement ;D Seriously for a moment we are talking about a Vast sum of money It'll be done when it is done. I know there's a vocal faction who want Peace gone and I respect that I'm from the other camp. I think he has been great for this club 10 years in the Prem, 6 consecutively is testament to it. But it's time to move on if his heart isn't in it anymore. Aptly there's a Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times" I hope we don't end up regretting the next owner like Leeds or Blackburn
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 18, 2015, 09:14:51 PM
There is that risk,and i fully understand those who say, better the devil you know, but if we don't take the gamble we may be forever saying "what if?"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 18, 2015, 09:33:20 PM
There is that risk,and i fully understand those who say, better the devil you know, but if we don't take the gamble we may be forever saying "what if?"

True and that's why I said if his heart isn't in it best to move on. Plus, understand, I wasn't having a pop at you sir
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 18, 2015, 11:52:59 PM
We've had Trev the Shed, so why not!

That what i was referring to, the next generation of shed manufacturing prowess.

Who knows he may just be annonced in time for him to sit next to pulis in the dugout at the citeh game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on July 19, 2015, 08:53:46 AM
That what i was referring to, the next generation of shed manufacturing prowess.

Who knows he may just be annonced in time for him to sit next to pulis in the dugout at the citeh game.

Or indeed lead the standing ovation for Delph when he trots out in Citeh colours....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 19, 2015, 11:42:08 AM
Alan nixon tweeted that the process at uk level is the hold up in the deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 19, 2015, 12:06:01 PM
Alan nixon tweeted that the process at uk level is the hold up in the deal.

If this source is accurate in what is said then perhaps it is the Fit & Proper test that is the reason and could potentially jeapodise any deal or alternatively just bureaucracy involved.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: monkey nuts on July 19, 2015, 12:37:29 PM
What he said was it was signed off a week ago and then as to go through prem league and that can take up to 3 weeks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 19, 2015, 01:29:25 PM
I've got a hunch it's a consortium which will not throw money at us.

I believe this because season tickets have gone as well as the new tops.

Moves i think could have been instigated by the new owner too increase the revenue.

They takeover and look bad for raising the prices themselves.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 19, 2015, 09:26:05 PM
I've got a hunch it's a consortium which will not throw money at us.

I believe this because season tickets have gone as well as the new tops.

Moves i think could have been instigated by the new owner too increase the revenue.

They takeover and look bad for raising the prices themselves.

Let's get them through the door first eh?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggieblood on July 19, 2015, 09:49:53 PM
It's my opinion, if that's ok?

Suppose i should write some bull from a friend of someone whose dog knows jp's dog.

The new contract stuff mentioned here imo is bull as after a takeover the owner is bound by thevold contracts and cannot change their terms unilaterrally under TUPE regs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slugga1 on July 19, 2015, 09:53:49 PM
I am not going to second guess anything,  I just wish whatever way it was going the news would hurry up soon.  It's either going to be the most exciting step we have made in a long time or the biggest anti climax ever.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 19, 2015, 09:56:42 PM
Whatever happens I just hope it turns out to the better benefit of the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 19, 2015, 10:34:56 PM
If that is true and its going to the fit and proper test surely it's as good as done? If that Leeds owner can pass it surely any one can?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 19, 2015, 10:58:27 PM
What is the fit and proper test?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 19, 2015, 11:29:11 PM
What is the fit and proper test?

Not sure if this helps at all http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/6271777/What-exactly-is-the-Premier-Leagues-fit-and-proper-person-test.html
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on July 19, 2015, 11:41:10 PM
What is the fit and proper test?

They hold a mirror in front of the new owners face and if the glass mists up then he is officially fit and proper.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 19, 2015, 11:44:38 PM
With this mirror/glass....What happens if there is no reflection?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on July 20, 2015, 12:20:50 AM
With this mirror/glass....What happens if there is no reflection?

It's only happened once and he was forced to sell his club to a Scouse builder for a tenner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on July 20, 2015, 05:06:59 AM
It's only happened once and he was forced to sell his club to a Scouse builder for a tenner.
Love it London!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MulumbuPower! on July 20, 2015, 02:41:59 PM
I'm not sure we'd benefit from a rich owner. Won't financial Fair Play completely shaft us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 20, 2015, 02:48:10 PM
I'm not sure we'd benefit from a rich owner. Won't financial Fair Play completely shaft us?

That's only if we start spending beyond our means. If it's the difference between not budging above £8 million for a player, and being able to go to £10 million, then FFP won't damage us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MulumbuPower! on July 20, 2015, 03:05:31 PM
Given our finances and the money that it pouring into the club, I'd love to know where the 'spending beyond our means' given wage and transfer figures. Should we be breaking our transfer record again and again? I'd look at building up the scouting network and try and establish some feeder clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 20, 2015, 03:08:14 PM
Given our finances and the money that it pouring into the club, I'd love to know where the 'spending beyond our means' given wage and transfer figures. Should we be breaking our transfer record again and again? I'd look at building up the scouting network and try and establish some feeder clubs.

Well we currently spend something like 75% of our turnover on wages, so some investment could relieve that pressure somewhat.

I think our scouting network was very good, but Pulis has his way of doing things and we're appeasing him at the moment.

I'd also say Kidderminster Harrier and Walsall are our feeder clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MulumbuPower! on July 20, 2015, 03:18:03 PM
I was thinking of feeders much further afield. A lot of London clubs have feeders attached to academies across the country. I think I'm right in saying that how Ramsey and Bale ended up with Arsenal and Southampton.

But back to the point, if we can only spend as much as we earn as a club, I don't see a new owner helping matters tbh. Given the record of rich foreign owners coming into clubs in the EPL (say Blackburn and Fulham just to pick a couple names out of the hat) so far its looks to be much more of a risk in the short term.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 20, 2015, 03:32:32 PM
I was thinking of feeders much further afield. A lot of London clubs have feeders attached to academies across the country. I think I'm right in saying that how Ramsey and Bale ended up with Arsenal and Southampton.

But back to the point, if we can only spend as much as we earn as a club, I don't see a new owner helping matters tbh. Given the record of rich foreign owners coming into clubs in the EPL (say Blackburn and Fulham just to pick a couple names out of the hat) so far its looks to be much more of a risk in the short term.
Bale's a weird one as I read somewhere before that Southampton took advantage of them being the only decent academy in the deep south so have this massive spread. I believe the rules state that the player must live withing an  hour of the academy to qualify, so Southampton argued that he was within range of their Bath branch that suddenly just sprang up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MulumbuPower! on July 20, 2015, 03:45:35 PM
Bale's a weird one as I read somewhere before that Southampton took advantage of them being the only decent academy in the deep south so have this massive spread. I believe the rules state that the player must live withing an  hour of the academy to qualify, so Southampton argued that he was within range of their Bath branch that suddenly just sprang up.

Haha I wasn't aware of that. Given that we have Villa, Wolves, and Blues to contend with I feel we should be looking for youth talent further away than Walsall.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 20, 2015, 03:46:03 PM
Bale's a weird one as I read somewhere before that Southampton took advantage of them being the only decent academy in the deep south so have this massive spread. I believe the rules state that the player must live withing an  hour of the academy to qualify, so Southampton argued that he was within range of their Bath branch that suddenly just sprang up.

and Ramsey was bought fairly (albeit at a bargain price in hindsight).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 20, 2015, 03:49:42 PM
Haha I wasn't aware of that. Given that we have Villa, Wolves, and Blues to contend with I feel we should be looking for youth talent further away than Walsall.
Furthest I know of is around Cambridge (Thorne & O'Neil) and of course there is Barbir from Pennsylvania via Manchester. However they all moved to in and around Birmingham.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 20, 2015, 04:27:00 PM
I'm pretty sure the distance is two hours drive, and that you can apply for dispensation based on location (Southampton being on the coast etc).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on July 20, 2015, 07:08:12 PM
I'm pretty sure the distance is two hours drive, and that you can apply for dispensation based on location (Southampton being on the coast etc).
I once made the huge mistake of driving from an exhibition in Birmingham, to route past the Shrine on way to M5.
Went through Handsworth took around 3/4 of an hour to do a very short mile or so!!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_jd26 on July 20, 2015, 07:22:22 PM
Haha I wasn't aware of that. Given that we have Villa, Wolves, and Blues to contend with I feel we should be looking for youth talent further away than Walsall.

I believe we have a base in and around cambridge. Izzy Brown and a couple of other academy players came from there including Thorne and O'neil as previously mentioned. We also have a base in Bristol to cover the south west and south wales. We also have strong links with St Kevin's Boys in Dublin.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 20, 2015, 07:32:47 PM
Is this relevant to the takeover  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 20, 2015, 07:40:47 PM
Is this relevant to the takeover  :D
taking stock of Assets the new owner will be buying  ;) :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MulumbuPower! on July 20, 2015, 08:51:13 PM
Is this relevant to the takeover  :D

Point taken.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 21, 2015, 02:58:42 PM
I'm so glad the club put a deadline on this takeover of before pre season and it weren't going to affect our transfers.(http://)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 21, 2015, 03:04:30 PM
I'm so glad the club put a deadline on this takeover of before pre season and it weren't going to affect our transfers.(http://)

Agreed, it needs to be sorted by week friday. the 31st
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on July 21, 2015, 03:06:03 PM
I can see us doing most of our business on transfer deadline day to be honest regardless of when this gets completed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 21, 2015, 03:06:34 PM
It as gone too quite about the take over anyone else worried?  Would have thought with only 10 days to go things would have started slipping out into the public domain.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 21, 2015, 03:12:35 PM
It as gone too quite about the take over anyone else worried?  Would have thought with only 10 days to go things would have started slipping out into the public domain.
I'd imagine NDA's put a stop to that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on July 21, 2015, 03:17:07 PM
I'd imagine NDA's put a stop to that.

Exactly!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 21, 2015, 03:20:38 PM
I'd imagine NDA's put a stop to that.
Ah I see now. My mistake. :-[
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 21, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
Just for someone a bit more in the know of this type of process.

I'd assume the NDA lasts for the whole period of time even if the move has broken down and unless both parties agreed on announcing as such it wouldn't come out until August anyway?

I assume neither party would have any interest in not drawing a line under it though so it's probably all still going on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gjg8183 on July 21, 2015, 03:42:36 PM
there was tv camera outside ground by astle gates at 1.30pm  ???????
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 21, 2015, 04:27:19 PM
Anyone get the number plate?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on July 21, 2015, 04:35:46 PM
Hope I'm wrong , but I think this takeover will fall through.Why no news either way?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boing on July 21, 2015, 04:36:01 PM
I think it would be sad if we got taken over Jeremy has done a good job
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 21, 2015, 04:37:15 PM
Hope I'm wrong , but I think this takeover will fall through.Why no news either way?

As said above, there are non-disclosure agreement that mean all involved parties cannot say anything until the process has finished.

We were told to wait until the end of the month for an announcement so there's 10 days left to wait it out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boing on July 21, 2015, 04:39:08 PM
I hope it all falls through what do you think
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 21, 2015, 04:42:53 PM
I hope it all falls through what do you think

Why do you hope it falls through?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 21, 2015, 04:44:18 PM
there was tv camera outside ground by astle gates at 1.30pm  ???????

It was BBC reporting about James McClean turning away during the nation anthem.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 21, 2015, 04:46:49 PM
I hope it all falls through what do you think

No way. It would be a step into the unknown but we need investment if we are to stay competitive in this league. If JP stays we will go down within 3 years IMO as we will struggle to compete with the majority of teams.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 21, 2015, 09:25:51 PM
Nixon has just said.. Its all signed off, not sure why its not announced. But like everyone else wouldn't say who it is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on July 21, 2015, 10:04:18 PM
As said above, there are non-disclosure agreement that mean all involved parties cannot say anything until the process has finished.

We were told to wait until the end of the month for an announcement so there's 10 days left to wait it out.

They said they hoped to make an announcement by the end of the month its not set in stone that there will be one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 21, 2015, 10:16:48 PM
Nixon has just said.. Its all signed off, not sure why its not announced. But like everyone else wouldn't say who it is.

Who is Nixon?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on July 21, 2015, 10:19:48 PM
Who is Nixon?

A reporter for one of the national newspapers, not sure which one.

He seems to know a fair bit compared to the local journos.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 21, 2015, 10:43:54 PM
Just a thought - perhaps the new owners want to make the announcement together with big signings so that they get maximum publicity and a feel good factor ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 21, 2015, 10:54:10 PM
Here's hoping your right
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 21, 2015, 11:07:33 PM
Without sounding pedantic when the club said the takeover should be done "By the end of July", did they mean literally that it would be announced on the 31st or as in a few days before possibly?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on July 21, 2015, 11:22:58 PM
Without sounding pedantic when the club said the takeover should be done "By the end of July", did they mean literally that it would be announced on the 31st or as in a few days before possibly?

I would assume (given that i obviously don't know for certain) that the handover is done from our side, but the FA need to do their stuff. So the end of July stuff was just an educated guess from the Albion staff.

I'd be very surprised if this is having any hold up on incoming players or any inpact on nearly anything if honest. I think once it goes through it'll be all academic really, unless of course the person/company wants to put money in (upto FFP limits)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 22, 2015, 08:44:06 AM
Without sounding pedantic when the club said the takeover should be done "By the end of July", did they mean literally that it would be announced on the 31st or as in a few days before possibly?

I imagine it's the legal side that's holding up the announcement. (If you've ever moved house, you'll know solicitors are not renowned for their speed). Also JP will want to ensure that he gets paid, & I can't imagine it's an easy task to get circa £150,000,000 out of China (If it is indeed Chinese prospective owners).
As I understood it, they were saying that the formalities should be complete by end of July, it could be before, it might be after, in any event, I would imagine that the new owners are part of the decision making process in modifying the playing squad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 22, 2015, 08:54:04 AM
I'm assuming here but I'm guessing that the club won't be sold if the new owner fails the fit and proper owners test by the FA? I'd hope due diligence would remove that as a risk, but with a lot of talk of 'handing over to the right person' what's the possibility the sale could happen but we get left in limbo?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AshD on July 22, 2015, 08:56:18 AM
I'm assuming here but I'm guessing that the club won't be sold if the new owner fails the fit and proper owners test by the FA? I'd hope due diligence would remove that as a risk, but with a lot of talk of 'handing over to the right person' what's the possibility the sale could happen but we get left in limbo?

Has anyone actually ever failed this? Seeing some of the chancers who have passed, I wonder how difficult it is to actually pass!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slugga1 on July 22, 2015, 09:05:04 AM
Has anyone actually ever failed this? Seeing some of the chancers who have passed, I wonder how difficult it is to actually pass!

Only one manager ( if I  remember reading correctly)  and he had already been at that particular club and dropped them in the poop.

If you have enough cash and you haven't atleast been caught money laundering (yet)  or have no serious convictions the clubs yours basically.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Xpresso on July 22, 2015, 09:51:37 AM
JP is probably somewhere in a darkened room at this very moment counting his money before he signs off the deal. It will take a week or two to count £150 million.

You would have thought that given his supposed love for the club a profit of £100 million would be more than enough to see him through his retirement  and he could give us back £50 million to put into the transfer kitty. Now that really would be a gesture of goodwill.

If nothing else, it would compensate the fans for all the agonies he's put us through during the various transfer windows down the years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 22, 2015, 10:13:56 AM
JP is probably somewhere in a darkened room at this very moment counting his money before he signs off the deal. It will take a week or two to count £150 million.

You would have thought that given his supposed love for the club a profit of £100 million would be more than enough to see him through his retirement  and he could give us back £50 million to put into the transfer kitty. Now that really would be a gesture of goodwill.

If nothing else, it would compensate the fans for all the agonies he's put us through during the various transfer windows down the years.



The King is in his counting house counting all his money, god knows what the queen is doing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 22, 2015, 10:16:24 AM
I imagine it's the legal side that's holding up the announcement. (If you've ever moved house, you'll know solicitors are not renowned for their speed). Also JP will want to ensure that he gets paid, & I can't imagine it's an easy task to get circa £150,000,000 out of China (If it is indeed Chinese prospective owners).
As I understood it, they were saying that the formalities should be complete by end of July, it could be before, it might be after, in any event, I would imagine that the new owners are part of the decision making process in modifying the playing squad.

So you mean he's holding onto the keys until the money hits his account?  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 22, 2015, 10:30:15 AM
JP will have to pay Capital gains tax of 27% on a large slice of the £150 million I guess,  so I would not put it past JP to be arranging some whizzy tax avoidance scheme if possible, something which could also delay the completion process. The chances are we will never get to know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 22, 2015, 10:35:37 AM
JP will have to pay Capital gains tax of 27% on a large slice of the £150 million I guess,  so I would not put it past JP to be arranging some whizzy tax avoidance scheme if possible, something which could also delay the completion process. The chances are we will never get to know.

He won't be able to use "offshore" allowances under new laws, but I can Imagine he would leave a sizeable amount in which ever country the new owners' come from, for "future" needs. (That is if their taxes are lower).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 22, 2015, 10:56:38 AM
Has anyone actually ever failed this? Seeing some of the chancers who have passed, I wonder how difficult it is to actually pass!

Didn't Cellini at Leeds fail it? Then Pass it. Then fail it again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 22, 2015, 12:11:10 PM
JP is probably somewhere in a darkened room at this very moment counting his money before he signs off the deal. It will take a week or two to count £150 million.

You would have thought that given his supposed love for the club a profit of £100 million would be more than enough to see him through his retirement  and he could give us back £50 million to put into the transfer kitty. Now that really would be a gesture of goodwill.

If nothing else, it would compensate the fans for all the agonies he's put us through during the various transfer windows down the years.

The succesful seasons do this for me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on July 22, 2015, 12:14:14 PM
The succesful seasons do this for me.

Very good point, Someone on here I forget who and apologize for that said along the lines of we all think we need major changes when in fact those changes needed are minimal if at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 22, 2015, 01:40:52 PM
Has anyone actually ever failed this? Seeing some of the chancers who have passed, I wonder how difficult it is to actually pass!

Didn't one of the Porstmouth owners pass the test and it ended up that the person did not even exist?

Ali Al Faraj
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on July 22, 2015, 02:11:12 PM
JP will get entreprenurial relief on the sale which is at 10% tax so I reckon he'll be ok! ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 22, 2015, 08:51:53 PM
JP will get entreprenurial relief on the sale which is at 10% tax so I reckon he'll be ok! ;D

Only covers the first £10m of gains
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 23, 2015, 07:55:30 AM
Sixth of August - very lucky for Chinese  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 23, 2015, 11:33:13 AM
8 is THE lucky number in china so the 8th / 8th (August) is very auspicious, doubly so this year as it is officially the first day of Autumn in the chinese calendar.

Maybe we will sign a new number 8 (Craig Gardner is incumbent)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on July 23, 2015, 07:58:08 PM
Sons of Albion Facebook page, saying Chinese Consortium been looking round the ground last two days ??? dont know how true this is  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 23, 2015, 08:04:44 PM
Sons of Albion Facebook page, saying Chinese Consortium been looking round the ground last two days ??? dont know how true this is  ::)

Could just be reps of the new shirt sponsors?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on July 23, 2015, 08:12:18 PM
Sons of Albion are very reliable. They was the first to state about Chinese taking over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on July 23, 2015, 08:15:41 PM
So I am hoping like the majority that this Takeover happens. I’m also hoping its goes to the Wanda Group, If it is then were moving to a big and exciting era for the club. I ask the subject question "How long do you think Pulis will be in charge" if they do take over, and back him.

Now I’m not saying Pulis is a bad manager, totally the contrary, I think hes a very established manager for a club of our size, and gets results. But this Group are seriously loaded, and have a very good and successful Business. I think they would be looking to branch out and hopefully get into Europe. They will be looking in time for a big name manager no doubt.

Even if its not the Wanda Group and is a successful Chinese owner or company, I think the same can comply. Exciting times. Just wish the Takeover was concluded.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 23, 2015, 10:00:41 PM
Is it still good if it's a consortium... Or better if was a sole owner?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 23, 2015, 10:08:13 PM
Sons of Albion are very reliable. They was the first to state about Chinese taking over.

They were guessing like everyone else was at the time. Few Chinese blokes seen around the stadium that could be there for any reason and suddenly its the consortium that has purchased the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 23, 2015, 10:42:19 PM
Now I’m not saying Pulis is a bad manager, totally the contrary, I think hes a very established manager for a club of our size, and gets results. But this Group are seriously loaded, and have a very good and successful Business. I think they would be looking to branch out and hopefully get into Europe. They will be looking in time for a big name manager no doubt.

Sorry but real-life does not work like championship manager. Our ground holds 26k, by premiership standards we are a small club with one of the lowest revenue streams. Rich benefactors are no longer allowed to throw money to transform a club, which in our case would need to be £200m plus anyway and would take 3 years minimum to really take effect. Pulis actually got stoke into Europe. There appears to be a myth that Peace has been holding us back when we've actually out-performed. The best we can hope for is a stadium expanded to 35k and mid-table football but in the prem you take each season as it comes. We are never going to be immune from relegation so somebody like Pulis is a godsend and you need to blindsided not to see that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 23, 2015, 11:08:05 PM
I erected the goals at Stamford Bridge last week. The place was swarming with Orientals. I think it had more to do with stadium tours, than a takeover. Do we do stadium tours? ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MulumbuPower! on July 24, 2015, 12:54:24 AM
Sorry but real-life does not work like championship manager. Our ground holds 26k, by premiership standards we are a small club with one of the lowest revenue streams. Rich benefactors are no longer allowed to throw money to transform a club, which in our case would need to be £200m plus anyway and would take 3 years minimum to really take effect. Pulis actually got stoke into Europe. There appears to be a myth that Peace has been holding us back when we've actually out-performed. The best we can hope for is a stadium expanded to 35k and mid-table football but in the prem you take each season as it comes. We are never going to be immune from relegation so somebody like Pulis is a godsend and you need to blindsided not to see that.


My thinking exactly!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 24, 2015, 08:29:41 AM
I erected the goals at Stamford Bridge last week. The place was swarming with Orientals. I think it had more to do with stadium tours, than a takeover. Do we do stadium tours? ;)

Yes. Very interesting too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on July 24, 2015, 08:33:57 AM
They were guessing like everyone else was at the time. Few Chinese blokes seen around the stadium that could be there for any reason and suddenly its the consortium that has purchased the club.

How do you know they was guessing though ? They have been more reliable than the local rags & some 'ITKS' on here..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 24, 2015, 09:50:12 AM
Its all off.  Boo!

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/wba-albion-jeremy-peace-official-statement-2568402.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/wba-albion-jeremy-peace-official-statement-2568402.aspx)

Chairman ends exclusivity agreement
I HAVE today brought to a close the period of exclusivity announced on July 3 and suspended negotiations with the interested party involved over the sale of West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd.

I entered into an exclusivity arrangement in good faith after agreeing terms for the sale but it is now clear to me that this potential purchaser is unable to fulfil the terms of that agreement at this time.

The Club's long-term stability and continued development is of paramount importance and I am not satisfied that the interests of West Bromwich Albion would have been best served by my continuing discussions at present.

It is important that I re-emphasise that the possible sale of the club does not and will not impact upon its day-to-day running and that this applies particularly in an area which I know concerns all supporters - team strengthening.

This is a period in which there is always an understandable impatience for new signings to strengthen our squad and nowhere is this pressure more keenly felt than at board level.

We have been busy pursuing transfer targets with the determined intention of helping our Head Coach Tony Pulis assemble a squad which he can take into the new Barclays Premier League campaign with optimism.

But, as Tony has confirmed, we will not be held to ransom. Of course I know this can add to supporter frustration but I do believe they will see our efforts come to fruition over the course of the transfer window.

As for the Club's long-term future, it is true that both before and since the exclusivity announcement was made, other parties have expressed strong interest in a purchase of the club and therefore that process remains ongoing.

But not at any point will it be allowed to deflect us from our primary objective of competing in the Premier League in a manner which our supporters demand.

Jeremy Peace
Chairman

Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/wba-albion-jeremy-peace-official-statement-2568402.aspx#dY2liWy7vSWmMjvv.99
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 24, 2015, 09:52:30 AM
i thought we were going to Harrods, lidls here we come
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 24, 2015, 09:53:29 AM
How frustrating ! Now JP go sign some players please
Will we ever know who the potential buyers actually were?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 24, 2015, 09:55:45 AM
what a waste of time!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 24, 2015, 09:56:04 AM
I have to say a massive anti climax, typical Albion
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Andio on July 24, 2015, 09:58:36 AM
Was a nice dream whilst it lasted, now back to normality  :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bradleysrocket on July 24, 2015, 09:59:51 AM
He states there are several other interested parties. Still very much up for sale by the sounds of it, even though we've past his own cut off date.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ian66 on July 24, 2015, 10:00:28 AM
It proves JP only has the best interests of the club at heart.... isn't  that a good thing?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PortsmouthBaggie on July 24, 2015, 10:00:41 AM
Fair play JP. He obviously didn't feel comfortable with the potential purchasers so I am happy. Could of been a Pompey job.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 24, 2015, 10:00:52 AM
 No real surprise typical Peace his ability to soft soap knows no limits !!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ian66 on July 24, 2015, 10:02:03 AM
No real surprise typical Peace his ability to soft soap knows no limits !!!
Why is it 'Typical Peace'??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 24, 2015, 10:02:23 AM
He's not going to be able to win whatever he says. I think that statement seems fair enough, if someone can't fulfil something they've agreed on this early, why continue?

How does anyone know if they promised him certain things for squad or stadium or name changes then changed everything? You don't and never will. So don't jump to conclusions, he isn't going to waste his own time doing this for a laugh.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 24, 2015, 10:02:33 AM
He states there are several other interested parties. Still very much up for sale by the sounds of it, even though we've past his own cut off date.
IF you are to believe the bald, tight one we have been up for sale for 4 years !!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 24, 2015, 10:02:50 AM
To me it's delaying the inevitable as he clearly wants out, eventually he will sell but obviously not happy with what these people brought to the table. Like I said, with people posting saying it's done etc its an anti climax but there you go
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 24, 2015, 10:04:55 AM
No real surprise typical Peace his ability to soft soap knows no limits !!!

If you read the article on the OS I think Peace has fully explained his reasons in pulling the plug. I'm happy with what he's said personally.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 24, 2015, 10:06:20 AM
so mr nixon a done deal then :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on July 24, 2015, 10:07:09 AM
Fantastic news.  8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 24, 2015, 10:07:37 AM
If it was a Chinese consortium I think it might have a lot to do with the Chinese stock market bombing during the last month. If they can't afford to buy the club I doubt whether the more fanciful notions that we would be throwing our new owners money around were ever a possibility.

At least it puts it to bed for the time being there are other parties interested but I suspect that they won't move forward until they see how next season pans out. The biggest risk the owners have is relegation and they may as well wait to they are guaranteed next year's Premier League money before buying the club.

The truth is we were never going to be shopping at Harrods nor should we with other peoples money because there is always price to pay and we might not like that price when the bill turns up.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mikehy on July 24, 2015, 10:08:07 AM
Best news I have heard today
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 24, 2015, 10:08:47 AM
I'm happy with that. Always said, better the devil you know. I am proud that we are one of the last few British owned clubs in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on July 24, 2015, 10:10:16 AM
Looks like we'll be staying with JP for a while yet. Can't say I am profoundly disappointed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 24, 2015, 10:11:34 AM
It's hard to make a judgement on these events when we know so little about the ins and outs of the deal, but as much as I am disappointed that it's not happening, we have to remember that we are still in a strong position with a quality manager, so things are far from doom and gloom. Still, it's all very anti-climatic.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 24, 2015, 10:11:57 AM
Best news I have heard, over the moon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 24, 2015, 10:12:31 AM
JP has shown once again that he is an honorable man who has the interests of the club very close to his heart. The potential owners were clearly not singing from the same hymn sheet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tipton Baggie on July 24, 2015, 10:12:40 AM
Bang goes another dream. But hey greggs is being built
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on July 24, 2015, 10:13:24 AM
some people are unbelievable and really haven't got a clue....

how can it be "typical peace"... the statement says that a deal was agreed.... therefore JP was ready to sell which is what so many on here wanted...

the fact that he was not comfortable with how the deal was being finalised and "dragging" on surely shows that he has the clubs best interests at hand... He could have just done what Gold and Sullivan did with blues and still sold to them after they had messed about just like Carson Yung did and look where that got blues.

don't get me wrong we can all dream of a new rich owner ploughing money in to the club we love , but the reality is that in the current set up we are in safe hands, and todays actions surely show that JP is not just interested in his own pocket.. he actually cares for the club...

so for crying out loud and for the sake of the new season please please stop this negativity about the running of the club and let them get on with their jobs,.

Pulis seems to be happy with the way things are going, albeit frustrated with some of the clubs demands, but he has not expressed concern that he doesn't have JP's backing so FFS give it a rest and get behind what the club are trying to achieve.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 24, 2015, 10:14:01 AM
I guess we will have to send messi and ronaldo back to Spain for the time being
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BobTaylor on July 24, 2015, 10:14:52 AM
So funny considering all the rumours if I was to believe them I'd be sat here a tad dissapointed now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 24, 2015, 10:15:16 AM
What's this Nixon guy got to say about all of this?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: merson94 on July 24, 2015, 10:16:22 AM
I think this is a good thing personally. He obviously thought the party interested would be somehow detrimental to the club's tradition and policies that he's worked so hard to put in place. I say fair play to him for not selling out in my opinion. Obviously it brings an end to some excitement for the time being. But I'd rather be in the club be in Mr safe hands for a bit longer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 24, 2015, 10:18:21 AM
If you read the article on the OS I think Peace has fully explained his reasons in pulling the plug. I'm happy with what he's said personally.
you may be happy with it but do you believe it, really?? 1 signing (who looks like he could become a problem) plus interest in a centre forward with probably only 1 season left in him at this level, and a medical for a bloke who has barely played for 2 years and who as far as i am aware no others in a major european league have shown any interest in despite him being available all summer! Never mind laughing at the Seals we need to take a good long look at ourselves because as it stands today we have arguably the weakest squad in the division just 2 weeks before the season starts.
It is looking to me despite his words that JP has no intention of loosening the purse strings,hence the number of kids included in and around the first team (not the normal Pulis way), i am now more concerned than i have been all summer that we will loose tge 1 genuine class act in the squad,Berahino,!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 24, 2015, 10:20:56 AM
Fantastic news, the club is in safe hands under JP. Better the devil you know i think.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 24, 2015, 10:22:04 AM
some people are unbelievable and really haven't got a clue....

how can it be "typical peace"... the statement says that a deal was agreed.... therefore JP was ready to sell which is what so many on here wanted...

the fact that he was not comfortable with how the deal was being finalised and "dragging" on surely shows that he has the clubs best interests at hand... He could have just done what Gold and Sullivan did with blues and still sold to them after they had messed about just like Carson Yung did and look where that got blues.

don't get me wrong we can all dream of a new rich owner ploughing money in to the club we love , but the reality is that in the current set up we are in safe hands, and todays actions surely show that JP is not just interested in his own pocket.. he actually cares for the club...

so for crying out loud and for the sake of the new season please please stop this negativity about the running of the club and let them get on with their jobs,.

Pulis seems to be happy with the way things are going, albeit frustrated with some of the clubs demands, but he has not expressed concern that he doesn't have JP's backing so FFS give it a rest and get behind what the club are trying to achieve.

Good post, totally agree.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: we8seals on July 24, 2015, 10:25:16 AM
To me it's delaying the inevitable as he clearly wants out, eventually he will sell but obviously not happy with what these people brought to the table. Like I said, with people posting saying it's done etc its an anti climax but there you go

i agree it is just postponing the inevitable. JP obviously wants out and the ludicrous amount of cash being thrown at the Premier League will ensure there will be interest from potential buyers. However as we (and other clubs) have found out it is not easy to get these things over the line.

I am neither strongly for or against JP but i cannot agree that this is something we should be rejoicing about. We are just creating uncertainty and that is never ever a good thing in a football club - whether its the future ownership, security of the manager or ability to hold on to best players - all are divisive issues that will inevitably affect what happens on the pitch.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Downunder Stripes on July 24, 2015, 10:26:31 AM
Great news as far as I am concerned....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 24, 2015, 10:27:02 AM
Bang goes another dream. But hey greggs is being built

Your dream was not a dream, it was a fantasy.

The reality was always more of the same or worse!  :-X
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 24, 2015, 10:27:31 AM
How do you know they was guessing though ? They have been more reliable than the local rags & some 'ITKS' on here..

It was clear they were guessing. No one had a clue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 24, 2015, 10:29:16 AM
I have too say that JP does have this clubs best interests at heart, love him or hate him he is looking for the deal that will allow us to develop and not become another Pompey.

Yes im gutted that we havent been sold to an owner that will push us forward however I would rather stay with JP than be sold off to someone who will destroy all the hard work of the last 15 years

Fair play JP
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 24, 2015, 10:29:42 AM
Never believed it would happen and not surprised by the statement, how many people have purchased season tickets on the back of change.
Tell us the whole story, I doubt it, fans led up the garden path by a very shrewd accountant!!
No signings, no progress, money in the bank you have to laugh. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 24, 2015, 10:30:01 AM
For every Roman Abramovitch there are several Carson Yeungs...... JP always said that whatever deal happens it has to be for the good of West Bromwich Albion. He clearly does not like what he sees and has pulled the plug.

For that he deserves our gratitude.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ukar1 on July 24, 2015, 10:32:39 AM
For every Roman Abramovitch there are several Carson Yeungs...... JP always said that whatever deal happens it has to be for the good of West Bromwich Albion. He clearly does not like what he sees and has pulled the plug.

For that he deserves our gratitude.




Well put.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 24, 2015, 10:33:38 AM
Not much you can say really. Statement makes it clear that the terms of the sale were agreed but for some reason the buyers couldn't fulfill them, could potentially be a lucky escape.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 24, 2015, 10:33:55 AM
I would rather have JP in charge then someone who would ruin our great club and from what the statement says that us what JP thinks would have happened.

If JP didn't care about the club why didn't he just sell it then and sod the consequences.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 24, 2015, 10:36:21 AM
Though I won't lie, I'm somewhat feeling down its not going ahead, as like others I allowed myself to think we would have someone to throw a bit more money at us, it's clear he has the best interest at heart. None of us know how tough it is to sell a football club and I hate to say it but bigger clubs like villa and Everton have not managed it. What we really need now to pick those of us who are deflated with this news is a decent signing or two, bit like when we signed lescott a couple of days after Alan Irvine was named head coach
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 24, 2015, 10:39:19 AM
I was never overly fussed in the first place.

Sometimes its better to be grateful for what you have, rather than wishing for something else.

As long as we have Pulis, I'm content. :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slugga1 on July 24, 2015, 10:39:23 AM
Slightly disappointed but I've learnt over the years not to get too excited! Can't knock the statement to be fair although I wouldn't be surprised if this was timed so that a signing or 2 is nearly complete as to soften the blow either?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 24, 2015, 10:40:23 AM
I think many fans were dreaming of a fantastic new owner who would come in and splash the cash...when in reality i dont think that would have been the case.

Onwards we go and we can sleep safe knowing JP has the clubs best interests at heart.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 24, 2015, 10:41:52 AM
I would rather have JP in charge then someone who would ruin our great club and from what the statement says that us what JP thinks would have happened.

If JP didn't care about the club why didn't he just sell it then and sod the consequences.
perhaps because they offered him a wee bit less than he wants?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: labaggies on July 24, 2015, 10:47:36 AM

I would suggest that the issue was financial, and the Chairman  wouldn't have been receiving his ransom, so he pulled the plug.

I'm sure Peace is not a very happy man today.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 24, 2015, 10:48:49 AM
The way I read the statement is that a sale to another buyer could still be on but could take some more time.

To be honest, I've always been satisfied to remain as we are, slowly progressing over the past decade or more as a club and team. With or without a new owner, with additional TV money coming, it's difficult to see us not improving further.

Any takeover must be aimed at improving the club long term and not someone coming in to spend a few quid in the short term to be a hero but then bring the club down a la Carson Yeung.

Let's see what happens over the next few weeks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Nathan on July 24, 2015, 10:49:34 AM
Never believed it would happen and not surprised by the statement, how many people have purchased season tickets on the back of change.
Tell us the whole story, I doubt it, fans led up the garden path by a very shrewd accountant!!

No signings, no progress, money in the bank you have to laugh.

This is my general thought on the whole matter too. Personally, I'm very uncomfortable with change in anything in life, whether it be for the better or worse, so in that respect I'm not too disappointed that the takeover hasn't materialised. Saying that,with my cynical head on, I can't help think that this was an exercise by JP to lull us all into thinking that progress was being made in order to appease the supporters and prompt season ticket sales during a summer that many of us were seriously thinking of not renewing after a thoroughly boring,disappointing campaign last year. That is not being unnecessarily critical of JP, he as Throstletown said, is very shrewd and did what had to be done and it worked!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cads_ap_albion on July 24, 2015, 10:54:58 AM
i guessed the writing was on the wall the moment i read we were negotiating with Abou Diaby.

Half relieved, half disappointed. Better the devil you know, but just for once, i was dreaming that Albion might have had the money to compete with other mid table clubs. Ah well, we will be back over this again at some point, when another buyer tries to buy us out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 24, 2015, 10:55:51 AM
Villa fans already getting excited that the deal has fallen through so they can go back in for them.
Any chance?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 24, 2015, 10:56:30 AM
If anyone bought a season ticket on the basis of change they deserve everything they get for being so foolish.

It was clear for a long while, even if sold, change would be minimal, if anything, without our balding custodian, probably more risky.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 24, 2015, 10:57:14 AM
I'm disappointed that the deal has fallen through at such a late stage.  I guess it indicates that the potential purchaser wasn't the safe hands that we'd been promised, or that they'd found something that wasn't 'as billed'.

I hope this whole issue is parked until September now. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ukar1 on July 24, 2015, 10:59:35 AM
Are we likely to get a forfeit from the potential purchaser noe its fallen through?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 24, 2015, 11:01:52 AM
Any monies held as part of the exclusivity process would get used for the legal bills - I would expect.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Brummie Road on July 24, 2015, 11:04:20 AM
some people are unbelievable and really haven't got a clue....

how can it be "typical peace"... the statement says that a deal was agreed.... therefore JP was ready to sell which is what so many on here wanted...

the fact that he was not comfortable with how the deal was being finalised and "dragging" on surely shows that he has the clubs best interests at hand... He could have just done what Gold and Sullivan did with blues and still sold to them after they had messed about just like Carson Yung did and look where that got blues.

don't get me wrong we can all dream of a new rich owner ploughing money in to the club we love , but the reality is that in the current set up we are in safe hands, and todays actions surely show that JP is not just interested in his own pocket.. he actually cares for the club...

so for crying out loud and for the sake of the new season please please stop this negativity about the running of the club and let them get on with their jobs,.

Pulis seems to be happy with the way things are going, albeit frustrated with some of the clubs demands, but he has not expressed concern that he doesn't have JP's backing so FFS give it a rest and get behind what the club are trying to achieve.

Well said mate, great post.

Personally I'm more than content with the Club Statement.

A quick glance at some of the Albion social media sites does indicate a proportion of our support is a bit disappointment, but personally I can't fathom how anyone can be too down about things when none of us have a clue about who the potential new owners were or what their intentions and future plans for the club were?

Clearly though the club does not have to be actively marketed as being up for sale for a potential buyer to emerge and make an offer, and at some stage the club will be sold, though personally as an ordinary Albion fan and Season Ticket holder, I'm very content with the way in which Peace runs the club so long may he continue at the helm as far as I'm concerned.

So I'm pleased to read the Club Statement, the club have continually emphasised that the situation has had no negative impact on player recruitment, and from the outside looking in, the position of Tony Pulis (who I believe to be a superb Manager) looks very strong and secure.

I suspect we'll have a few new players on board soon and am very much looking forward to the new season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on July 24, 2015, 11:07:35 AM
I'm not sure about the whole idea anyway... Venky's anyone?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MulumbuPower! on July 24, 2015, 11:08:09 AM
A slightly relieved Baggie over here. Better the devil you know.... until the next takeover talk begin...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 24, 2015, 11:08:30 AM
If anyone bought a season ticket on the basis of change they deserve everything they get for being so foolish.

It was clear for a long while, even if sold, change would be minimal, if anything, without our balding custodian, probably more risky.
Very true, nothing was said that the new owners (if sold) would splash the cash.

And another thing if JP had sold us and the new owners turned out to be the worst thing that had happened to the club what would the fans been saying then? JP shouldn't have sold us he should have done more checks on these people. Better the devil you know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 24, 2015, 11:15:52 AM
Line 1 - Venkys - Chicken Farmers who have almost destroyed Blackburn
Line 2 - Vincent Tan - Virtually ripped the tradition out of the football club with colour change.
Line 3 - Carson Yeung - Almost bankrupt blues and is currently in a chinese prison cell

JP your doing a great job old chap
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 24, 2015, 11:17:05 AM
I would suggest that the issue was financial, and the Chairman  wouldn't have been receiving his ransom, so he pulled the plug.

I'm sure Peace is not a very happy man today.

I think it was financial too, but if prospective owners are quibbling about the price, or, more likely, weren't able to satisfy JP's advisors on their abilty to pay, we've dogged a bullet & it's a good decision by JP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 24, 2015, 11:19:26 AM
I would suggest that the issue was financial, and the Chairman  wouldn't have been receiving his ransom, so he pulled the plug.

I'm sure Peace is not a very happy man today.

Ive been waiting for the JP detractors to say its because he won't get his money.

I would suggest it has nothing to do with that at all and is merely they couldn't backup their proposals with the club financially.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on July 24, 2015, 11:23:27 AM
Ive been waiting for the JP detractors to say its because he won't get his money.

I would suggest it has nothing to do with that at all and is merely they couldn't backup their proposals with the club financially.

the deal was agreed before the exclusivity period was agreed.

I'd say it's more to do with the fit and proper persons test perhaps. either that or them actually providing evidence they have the money in the first place.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: labaggies on July 24, 2015, 11:26:04 AM
Ive been waiting for the JP detractors to say its because he won't get his money.

I would suggest it has nothing to do with that at all and is merely they couldn't backup their proposals with the club financially.

Is that another way of saying they didn't have the wherewithal to pay Peace his fortune.

We will never know, will we....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: labaggies on July 24, 2015, 11:27:31 AM
the deal was agreed before the exclusivity period was agreed.

I'd say it's more to do with the fit and proper persons test perhaps. either that or them actually providing evidence they have the money in the first place.

A comment was made earlier about the decline in the Chinese stock market, I would suggest that is the real reason, the deal failed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 24, 2015, 11:28:11 AM
I agreed a sale on my house, turned out the buyers couldn't get the mortgage.

Similar scenario (in principle) methinks,

JP will not be a happy bunny, He now has to find cash to protect his unwanted asset !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 24, 2015, 11:31:07 AM
I read a tweet on sons of Albion that they would not commit to team investment. I know we will probably never know but if that's the case then it's good it's dead with these people. I guess this will run and run
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 24, 2015, 11:49:57 AM
We will never know who what or why. However one of the early symptoms of a bad owner at work is when they are buying the club money or commitment does not turn up when it is supposed to, there are delays and attempts to renegotiate terms. If you are desperate to sell (like Gold & Sullivan were at Blues) you press on and do the deal. If you are not desperate you pull the plug.

JP is not a desperate seller far from it he is backing us to stay in the Premier League relegation could cost him £100m which is no small wager. He doesn't need to find cash to protect his asset it is self sustaining and does not require to sell its' soul to a Sugar Daddy to survive or thrive.

We move on and the Peace haters get to keep their bogyman. Everyone's a winner :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 24, 2015, 11:52:41 AM
How the hell can this be good news for f sake this man has taken the club as far as he can relegation candidates every year with no hope of silver ware. The transfer system which is in place is a joke see the failure of the system in the past two years since that bloke who's name eludes me went to England. Side note status quo are playing in town to night so there wil be a lot of forum members at that me thinks. JP ouuuuuuuuuut
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 24, 2015, 12:00:39 PM
A comment was made earlier about the decline in the Chinese stock market, I would suggest that is the real reason, the deal failed.

As an astute businessman/accountant surely JP would have received guarentees that they had the necessary funds before kicking the other interested parties into touch!
More likely they tried to move the goalposts or as has been mentioned they would not commit to further team investment, but I guess we will never know, so business as usual for a while. With the extra monies next year the price could well go up, but first of all iwe look forward to aother year of  survival year hopefully.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 24, 2015, 12:08:38 PM
you may be happy with it but do you believe it, really?? 1 signing (who looks like he could become a problem) plus interest in a centre forward with probably only 1 season left in him at this level, and a medical for a bloke who has barely played for 2 years and who as far as i am aware no others in a major european league have shown any interest in despite him being available all summer! Never mind laughing at the Seals we need to take a good long look at ourselves because as it stands today we have arguably the weakest squad in the division just 2 weeks before the season starts.
It is looking to me despite his words that JP has no intention of loosening the purse strings,hence the number of kids included in and around the first team (not the normal Pulis way), i am now more concerned than i have been all summer that we will loose tge 1 genuine class act in the squad,Berahino,!!

I'm happy with his reasons for pulling out of the deal. I'm not happy with the lack of signings, no, but this has nothing to do with the takeover. Even if the takeover had gone through we wouldn't have seen any difference in signings this season anyway I wouldn't imagine.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 24, 2015, 12:17:26 PM
I have got a few contacts in football through family and friends. And many people also say how much they admire WBA as a club, partly the way JP has run the club ans kept it stable over the years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 24, 2015, 12:18:18 PM
As an astute businessman/accountant surely JP would have received guarentees that they had the necessary funds before kicking the other interested parties into touch!
More likely they tried to move the goalposts or as has been mentioned they would not commit to further team investment, but I guess we will never know, so business as usual for a while. With the extra monies next year the price could well go up, but first of all iwe look forward to aother year of  survival year hopefully.

I have no opinion either way on this but playing devil's advocate, it would be nice to hear the opinion of the other party because after all JP has had a reputation for spin and moving goalposts too, whether true or not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hunsletbaggie on July 24, 2015, 12:26:47 PM
This is bad news.
And it just gives the Jezzerites more ammunition to re-write history.
I can see it now "JP saves us from dodgey takeover what a legend"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 24, 2015, 12:31:25 PM
This is bad news.
And it just gives the Jezzerites more ammunition to re-write history.
I can see it now "JP saves us from dodgey takeover what a legend"

If its true what is being said and its because the consortium wouldn't commit to 'team investment' then what is the point in selling the club? Peace could have took his £150m and ran, but in fact stayed until a buyer who WILL commit to certain amount of team investment is found. Fair play to him. Although I do believe we need to be sold because we clearly are going to be left behind in years to come otherwise...

Boro, Sheff Wed, Bournemouth to name but a few, all throwing money around. £10m+ for Championship signings is clearly the way forward it seems...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BoingFlyer on July 24, 2015, 12:33:58 PM
This is bad news.
And it just gives the Jezzerites more ammunition to re-write history.
I can see it now "JP saves us from dodgey takeover what a legend"

A chairman with a proven track record of running a club in the premier league decides to stay is bad news?!?! Unless the buyer was a multi-billionaire with a penchant for spending money on over-paid primma donners  (which was never going to happen) then it's a good thing!

Clearly the takeover had something wrong with it for him to dropout, perhaps they wanted to the buyout to be debt financed with the debt taken out by the club?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 24, 2015, 12:44:53 PM
I find the news both unsurprising and hilarious.

How many transfer windows in a row have now been an unmitigated disaster for us? I have certainly lost count. It seemed we were waiting for the mega bucks to roll in when the takeover was completed before launching a spending spree and low and behold it falls through, we've only signed a controversial Championship standard player and the season is two weeks away...

Don't you just love supporting the Albion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 24, 2015, 12:47:08 PM
We could have been another Birmingham City if the kitchen sinks had sunk their claws into us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 24, 2015, 12:50:30 PM
I have got a few contacts in football through family and friends. And many people also say how much they admire WBA as a club, partly the way JP has run the club ans kept it stable over the years.
Check on their sanity, JP´s footballing decisions over the last 2years have been nothing better than useless in the main,witness the dismantling of his beloved European model!! Oh and dont start me on Greggs! >:( >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 24, 2015, 12:51:52 PM
We could have been another Birmingham City if the kitchen sinks had sunk their claws into us.
Or they could have been all for the club e.g Leicester,not all takeovers have gone sour!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 24, 2015, 12:54:06 PM
Check on their sanity, JP´s footballing decisions over the last 2years have been nothing better than useless in the main,witness the dismantling of his beloved European model!! Oh and dont start me on Greggs! >:( >:(

I don't see the issue with Greggs? People are reacting like they're knocking down the Hawthorns pub and building a Greggs there that has nothing to do with the club. It's going to be a bloody shop/stall in the WBA FANZONE. They will pay rent to us. It will be 1 of many stalls/shops in there. I don't see the issue personally.

PLUS, everyone loves a Greggs, come on  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 24, 2015, 12:56:09 PM
Check on their sanity, JP´s footballing decisions over the last 2years have been nothing better than useless in the main,witness the dismantling of his beloved European model!! Oh and dont start me on Greggs! >:( >:(

Ok...i take it you'd rather be a pompey in league two who have had to overcome crippling debts thanks to at the time 'fantastic New owners'

Or perhaps a Leeds united who have a complete tosser in charge of them.
No?

Maybe a Vincent Tan who can change our colors to Red and White stripes?

Or have Jeremy Peace who has run the club well, with no debt and spent good money on training facilities. He has also splashed cash on Anichebe and Brown Ideye who have both been a complete waste of money. 

And make mine a large sausage roll :) :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 24, 2015, 12:57:55 PM
Ok...i take it you'd rather be a pompey in league two who have had to overcome crippling debts thanks to at the time 'fantastic New owners'

Or perhaps a Leeds united who have a complete tosser in charge of them.
No?

Maybe a Vincent Tan who can change our colors to Red and White stripes?

Or have Jeremy Peace who has run the club well, with no debt and spent good money on training facilities. He has also splashed cash on Anichebe and Brown Ideye who have both been a complete waste of money. 

And make mine a large sausage roll :) :)

To be fair there are good points and bad points on both sides of a potential takeover. Just stating the takeovers that have been rubbish is as bad as just naming the likes of City, Chelsea, Leicester ...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 24, 2015, 01:11:54 PM
Some truly terrifying posts on here.  I despair for humanity at times.

Lot's of speculation of what has/hasn't happened, truth is we don't know.

However, from now onwards the focus is 100% on getting the signings in.

As there is 5 weeks of the window left I'm sure we'll see this happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 24, 2015, 01:17:48 PM
I'm pleased to announce that this decision does not affect my life in the least. :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: east-stand-nick on July 24, 2015, 01:22:05 PM
We're in safe hands with Peace. Not too disappointed, I'm glad he didn't hand us over to some potentially damaging owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 24, 2015, 01:28:14 PM
Obviously money was not the "be all" to JP.
He could have sold, trousered the money and walked away with a smile on his face.
Integrity came to the fore.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 24, 2015, 01:31:15 PM
Obviously money was not the "be all" to JP.
He could have sold, trousered the money and walked away with a smile on his face.
Integrity came to the fore.
There is another scenario with this, of course, where either all of the money that was agreed wan't going to be there at all or it wasn't going to be paid as soon as he wanted. It may not all be down to altruism.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on July 24, 2015, 01:36:45 PM
Ok...i take it you'd rather be a pompey in league two who have had to overcome crippling debts thanks to at the time 'fantastic New owners'

Or perhaps a Leeds united who have a complete tosser in charge of them.
No?

Maybe a Vincent Tan who can change our colors to Red and White stripes?

Or have Jeremy Peace who has run the club well, with no debt and spent good money on training facilities. He has also splashed cash on Anichebe and Brown Ideye who have both been a complete waste of money. 

And make mine a large sausage roll :) :)

Hull Tigers. Grrrrrr ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 24, 2015, 01:39:17 PM
To be fair there are good points and bad points on both sides of a potential takeover. Just stating the takeovers that have been rubbish is as bad as just naming the likes of City, Chelsea, Leicester ...

I couldn't agree more. It is easy to cherry pick certain examples to suit peoples argument. As far as I am aware Pompey and Leeds are still in business, and their fans are probably getting as much enjoyment still from supporting their teams than we are making the numbers up in the money grabbing sterile confines of the Premierleague.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 24, 2015, 01:47:44 PM
I'm sad that the club wasn't possibly sold to someone who could improve it, but I'm also happy that it wasn't possibly sold to someone who may have ruined it.

Selling a football club is probably very detailed, and there's probably a lot of stuff we will never know about. I will say this though, it's good that Peace had some principles and didn't jump at the first signs of money ala Gold and Brady.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 24, 2015, 01:52:29 PM
The only thing that disappoints me, is the number of people quick to jump at an opportunity to slate Jeremy Peace. :-X
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on July 24, 2015, 01:53:31 PM
How the hell can this be good news for f sake this man has taken the club as far as he can relegation candidates every year with no hope of silver ware. The transfer system which is in place is a joke see the failure of the system in the past two years since that bloke who's name eludes me went to England. Side note status quo are playing in town to night so there wil be a lot of forum members at that me thinks. JP ouuuuuuuuuut
Since we got promoted last under Peace we have finished 11th, 10th, 8th, 17th, and 13th. If we have a bad season we could go down, so could two thirds of the Premier League.  At some point  (and without getting too blasé about it ) we have to recognise that under Peace we have moved on from automatic relegation candidates, as reflected by the odds that the bookies offer on us.
Peace is doing a decent job, losing him is a gamble.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 24, 2015, 01:54:34 PM
Ok so as ever JP is proving a divisive character that looks liking being in charge for another season. Under his stewardship just what are his /our hopes , aims expectations, aspirations  if as seems likely he carries on in his usual fashion. IMO he will lead us to relegation within 4 seasons quite possibly less if we carry on faffing about in transfer windows and changing managers/head coaches every time danger beckons. To me he has killed hope and that is a great sin in my book !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBrainy on July 24, 2015, 01:58:47 PM
you may be happy with it but do you believe it, really?? 1 signing (who looks like he could become a problem) plus interest in a centre forward with probably only 1 season left in him at this level, and a medical for a bloke who has barely played for 2 years and who as far as i am aware no others in a major european league have shown any interest in despite him being available all summer! Never mind laughing at the Seals we need to take a good long look at ourselves because as it stands today we have arguably the weakest squad in the division just 2 weeks before the season starts.
It is looking to me despite his words that JP has no intention of loosening the purse strings,hence the number of kids included in and around the first team (not the normal Pulis way), i am now more concerned than i have been all summer that we will loose tge 1 genuine class act in the squad,Berahino,!!

I laughed, im sorry but I did.

Yes we are chasing Rickie Lambert, granted he is 33 years old, but this guy scores goals and for £4Million I would take him, are you saying you would not ?
So you believe we can get a better striker for £4Million ? Someone who has proven at every level hes played at that he will smash the net a number of times
Granted Diaby has been injured over 40 times in his career, but if our medical team assess him properly and he gets the right treatment on a pay as you play deal.... He could be the signing of the transfer window could he not? Do you forget how good this guy is when hes playing? If our medical team think they can deal with the problems he faces then we must trust them because this guy is still only 29 and if he played 20 games for us he would be a seriously good addition. His performances for Arsenal when he was fit speak for themself in the medical team and the club we must trust!

And what made me laugh even more is the fact that you are saying we have Arguably the weakest side in the division!
I think you need to have a re-think and maybe look at the teams within the division if you for one moment believe we are weaker than teams such as Sunderland, Watford, Norwich, Leicester, The Vile do you really believe we are weaker then them ?

I strongly disagree... We have some fantastic players at the Albion who deserve alot more credit. The likes of Berahino/Yacob/Fletch/McManaman/Lescott the names are endless and they all deserve to wear the might crest of our club. We have a decent squad, granted we do need some additions to take us forward but give the club time, there is an awful lot going on at the Albion at this present moment but wear your shirts with pride and buckle up, if your a true supporter you know its going to be a ride of emotions regardless so just enjoy it and support the club you love :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 24, 2015, 02:12:53 PM
I laughed, im sorry but I did.

Yes we are chasing Rickie Lambert, granted he is 33 years old, but this guy scores goals and for £4Million I would take him, are you saying you would not ?
So you believe we can get a better striker for £4Million ? Someone who has proven at every level hes played at that he will smash the net a number of times
Granted Diaby has been injured over 40 times in his career, but if our medical team assess him properly and he gets the right treatment on a pay as you play deal.... He could be the signing of the transfer window could he not? Do you forget how good this guy is when hes playing? If our medical team think they can deal with the problems he faces then we must trust them because this guy is still only 29 and if he played 20 games for us he would be a seriously good addition. His performances for Arsenal when he was fit speak for themself in the medical team and the club we must trust!

And what made me laugh even more is the fact that you are saying we have Arguably the weakest side in the division!
I think you need to have a re-think and maybe look at the teams within the division if you for one moment believe we are weaker than teams such as Sunderland, Watford, Norwich, Leicester, The Vile do you really believe we are weaker then them ?

I strongly disagree... We have some fantastic players at the Albion who deserve alot more credit. The likes of Berahino/Yacob/Fletch/McManaman/Lescott the names are endless and they all deserve to wear the might crest of our club. We have a decent squad, granted we do need some additions to take us forward but give the club time, there is an awful lot going on at the Albion at this present moment but wear your shirts with pride and buckle up, if your a true supporter you know its going to be a ride of emotions regardless so just enjoy it and support the club you love :)

 I admire your optimism. Its over 50 years since i first went to the Hawthorns so i dont intend giving up on us anytime soon!! But sadly with possibly 1 exception i do feel our squad is weaker than all those you name as for the individuals only Berahino is truly prem class at this time . On the negative side we have no full backs,and defensively a total lack of pace through the centre of the team (hope McManaman can stay fit) in short ithink we are 4 or 5 starters short let alone squad fillers can you really see us doing that much buisiness because thats what i feel is going to be needed to keep our heads above water, it is too round about what we were promised at the end of last season! 2 months on and we´ve signed 1 player so much for not interfering with our preparations !!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 24, 2015, 02:14:48 PM
Ok so as ever JP is proving a divisive character that looks liking being in charge for another season. Under his stewardship just what are his /our hopes , aims expectations, aspirations  if as seems likely he carries on in his usual fashion. IMO he will lead us to relegation within 4 seasons quite possibly less if we carry on faffing about in transfer windows and changing managers/head coaches every time danger beckons. To me he has killed hope and that is a great sin in my book !

This sums up my feelings entirely. I don't think anyone can argue that JP has done a decent job here. I think he's got very lucky at times with having Ashworth around him and managing to land Hodgson & Pulis when he did. The worrying thing for me is that we have stood still over the last couple of years and are showing no signs of moving when others around us are giving it their best shot. We are playing only for survival every year now and with Pulis in charge it won't even be pretty to watch. Without change there is no hope.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBrainy on July 24, 2015, 02:22:16 PM

 I admire your optimism. Its over 50 years since i first went to the Hawthorns so i dont intend giving up on us anytime soon!! But sadly with possibly 1 exception i do feel our squad is weaker than all those you name as for the individuals only Berahino is truly prem class at this time . On the negative side we have no full backs,and defensively a total lack of pace through the centre of the team (hope McManaman can stay fit) in short ithink we are 4 or 5 starters short let alone squad fillers can you really see us doing that much buisiness because thats what i feel is going to be needed to keep our heads above water, it is too round about what we were promised at the end of last season! 2 months on and we´ve signed 1 player so much for not interfering with our preparations !!

So let me ask you this can you name me aston villas midfielders who are better than ours ?
Or bounemouths?
or watfords?

Can you name me four or five players you would like from one of the teams mentioned above and please name who they would replace within our team? Im intrigued to see who they have better than us.

From watford id take troy deeney.
From bournemouth id take mings and wilson. but neither deeney or wilson would get in ahead of berahino i believe we have the better striker. and as for mings i think dawson can be a solid right back tbh.
from the villa .... i cant name a single player in there team that id rather have in mine ?
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 24, 2015, 02:27:55 PM
I think you have all guessed i am not Mr Peace's biggest fan, but on this occasion i am giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I think either the club or the Premier League due diligence unearthed something he wasn't happy with and he pulled the plug.Fair play to him if he thought the sale was not in the club's best interests.
Disappointing for us fan's, but probably even more disappointing for him as he could have walked away a rich man.

Now he needs to channel all his efforts into getting in the player's on Pulis's list.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: we8seals on July 24, 2015, 02:29:26 PM
Ok so as ever JP is proving a divisive character that looks liking being in charge for another season. Under his stewardship just what are his /our hopes , aims expectations, aspirations  if as seems likely he carries on in his usual fashion. IMO he will lead us to relegation within 4 seasons quite possibly less if we carry on faffing about in transfer windows and changing managers/head coaches every time danger beckons. To me he has killed hope and that is a great sin in my book !

his hopes and aspirations are crystal clear - £150 million folding green ones in his trouser pocket!

However to suggest that it is JP that has killed hope is a bit ridiculous. Football has eaten itself - we have a situation where a very small number of clubs dominate and others spend countless millions attempting to break into that elite and most dont get close. there are 12 clubs all playing Russian Roulette with relegation every season and eventually there will be bullet with your name on it - none of that can be put down to JP. Would i like us to have been a bit more willing to spend on players? Well yes i would - but there is no guarantee that we would have had any more success by doing that and looking at what has happened to clubs that have spent and are in a far worse state than we are you can argue very easily that steering a safe passage is a good option. You do however have to question what is the point of finishing mid table every year with the odd flirtation with relegation or europa league qualification - or maybe a cup quarter final that you f*** up against your bitter rivals.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on July 24, 2015, 02:39:23 PM
I'm sad that the club wasn't possibly sold to someone who could improve it, but I'm also happy that it wasn't possibly sold to someone who may have ruined it.

Selling a football club is probably very detailed, and there's probably a lot of stuff we will never know about. I will say this though, it's good that Peace had some principles and didn't jump at the first signs of money ala Gold and Brady.

Your are certainly right about the detail involved in selling a football club.  As I said right at the start of the process, I have been involved in selling several large sporting assets and it would make plaiting sawdust seem straightforward. Even when you get to Heads of Terms (which it appears JP reached) and full due diligence, I would still say from experience that fewer than 25% complete.  I have no doubt that JP will have been provided with proof of funds either in cash or committed finance but that still doesn't mean that they actually intended to buy.   I would add, again from personal experience, that the Chinese are by far the flakiest of buyers. I have a letter of intent signed by the CEO of one of China's biggest life insurance companies stating that they would be paying $115m for an asset that had just been independently valued at $165m.  If the paper were soft and absorbent then I might still have a use for it...



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 24, 2015, 02:42:04 PM
I think people need some perspective here, and our team isn't as bad as many are making out, i.e. those saying Berahino is the only 'top' player, assuming the rest aren't premiership quality.
Rival fans have been saying this ever since we came up with Di Matteo, i.e. year on year our signings get laughed at, whether it be Keith Andrews, Billy Jones, Gareth McAuley, Craig Garnder or James Mclean. The fact is, we're still here and apart from the year we finished 17th, we've never looked like going down especially when the manager is solid, such as Hodgson and now Pulis.

We must be doing something right to keep staying up. You can say we're fortunate in getting in Ashworths, Pulis et al but as Pulis said himself, the harder you work the luckier you get.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 24, 2015, 02:57:11 PM
Your are certainly right about the detail involved in selling a football club.  As I said right at the start of the process, I have been involved in selling several large sporting assets and it would make plaiting sawdust seem straightforward. Even when you get to Heads of Terms (which it appears JP reached) and full due diligence, I would still say from experience that fewer than 25% complete.  I have no doubt that JP will have been provided with proof of funds either in cash or committed finance but that still doesn't mean that they actually intended to buy.   I would add, again from personal experience, that the Chinese are by far the flakiest of buyers. I have a letter of intent signed by the CEO of one of China's biggest life insurance companies stating that they would be paying $115m for an asset that had just been independently valued at $165m.  If the paper were soft and absorbent then I might still have a use for it...

Hi Stox,
have you read JP's statement?
When i read it I thought there was a certain element of wriggle room in it, in your experience is it likely that a purchaser would push brinkmanship too far, ie the deal collapses and therefore the buyer would have to re-ignite negotiations with a seller?

Also does the removal of exclusivity necessarily mean the deal is stone cold dead, in your opinion of course !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 24, 2015, 03:01:29 PM
With the removal of exclusivity am I right in saying that we find out who this consortium are and the reason behind the failure to see to move on with said deal
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 24, 2015, 03:05:33 PM
With the removal of exclusivity am I right in saying that we find out who this consortium are and the reason behind the failure to see to move on with said deal

I would doubt that, its likely that in the event of a deal falling through no public disclosures can be made to ensure no bad blood is spilt in public and therefore brands / reputations remain "un-tarnished".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 24, 2015, 03:06:14 PM
So let me ask you this can you name me aston villas midfielders who are better than ours ?
Or bounemouths?
or watfords?

Can you name me four or five players you would like from one of the teams mentioned above and please name who they would replace within our team? Im intrigued to see who they have better than us.

From watford id take troy deeney.
From bournemouth id take mings and wilson. but neither deeney or wilson would get in ahead of berahino i believe we have the better striker. and as for mings i think dawson can be a solid right back tbh.
from the villa .... i cant name a single player in there team that id rather have in mine ?
Just a few without delving in to deep but any off this list
 Westwood,Richards,Defoe, Van Anholt,Wilson, Ansah,Deeney,Ritchie and Mings
..................and i did say squad not starting XI
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 24, 2015, 03:08:32 PM
I think you have all guessed i am not Mr Peace's biggest fan, but on this occasion i am giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I think either the club or the Premier League due diligence unearthed something he wasn't happy with and he pulled the plug.Fair play to him if he thought the sale was not in the club's best interests.
Disappointing for us fan's, but probably even more disappointing for him as he could have walked away a rich man.

Now he needs to channel all his efforts into getting in the player's on Pulis's list.

I totally agree, and, think he will. Plus there's other interested parties so I doubt this is the end

With the removal of exclusivity am I right in saying that we find out who this consortium are and the reason behind the failure to see to move on with said deal

it been awhil since I did Company Law but I think the Non Disclosure Agreement stays in place. As they have seen sensetive material in regards to the club and vice Versa
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on July 24, 2015, 03:10:48 PM
Is that another way of saying they didn't have the wherewithal to pay Peace his fortune.

We will never know, will we....

if your summation is correct then its a bloody good job that JP pulled the plug wouldn't you say... if they cant even pay the purchase price then what kind of additional money could they put into the club.....in other words another Carson Yeung.....

So how about lets all stop with the accusations on JP and be thank full that he wasn't just thinking of his pocket... because if he was he would have done what Gold and Sullivan did with blues and took a lower price and said sod the lot of you and left us right in the mire....

I really am not having a go at you personally mate but some people on here really need to stop seeing everything the club does as a glass half empty situation
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 24, 2015, 03:12:15 PM
I totally agree, and, think he will. Plus there's other interested parties so I doubt this is the end

it been awhil since I did Company Law but I think the Non Disclosure Agreement stays in place. As they have seen sensetive material in regards to the club and vice Versa
so all we get is a statement from JP with his side of break down in regards to deal
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on July 24, 2015, 03:13:39 PM
How the hell can this be good news for f sake this man has taken the club as far as he can relegation candidates every year with no hope of silver ware. The transfer system which is in place is a joke see the failure of the system in the past two years since that bloke who's name eludes me went to England. Side note status quo are playing in town to night so there wil be a lot of forum members at that me thinks. JP ouuuuuuuuuut

just where exactly do you think we can go.... unfortunately given the money in the game, FFP and the backer of the top 6-7 clubs in the league we will never get higher than the 8th we achieved under the devil that is known as JP........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on July 24, 2015, 03:16:36 PM
Hi Stox,
have you read JP's statement?
When i read it I thought there was a certain element of wriggle room in it, in your experience is it likely that a purchaser would push brinkmanship too far, ie the deal collapses and therefore the buyer would have to re-ignite negotiations with a seller?

Also does the removal of exclusivity necessarily mean the deal is stone cold dead, in your opinion of course !

Hi Paulo,

In my opinion, yes the deal would be dead.  A bloke flogging watches in a pub might be able to entice a buyer by pretending to walk out but with a deal of this size I would say it's very unlikely.  Considering the money that both sides will have spent on legal/ audit/ accounting fees to get to this point drafting the Heads, Sale and Purchase Agreement, building the data room, providing all sorts of information, JP would have provided an extension if there was a reasonable chance of a deal.  Think of it like a house sale where you have spent conveyancing fees, had some remedial work done to repair things picked up in the survey etc.  You will only put the house back on the market if you are pretty sure that the buyer isn't going to complete...

With regards to the exclusivity and the unmasking of the buyer, I would say it is unlikely. Both sides have probably signed Non Disclosure Agreements that prevent each other from saying anything.  Also, if I were advising JP, I would strongly advise against unmasking as I see no upside in doing so other than to satisfy supporter curiosity.  JP's next buyer could make contact with the Chinese consortium/ their advisers and get valuable insight that could derail the next purchase.  If your house sale fell through would you tell the next buyers the name of the previous buyer so that they could go and have a chat about the price, the damp or the neighbours....?

Again, all of this is just guess work and we might see the deal back on and the buyers holding blue and white scarves in the E&S tomorrow....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 24, 2015, 03:33:54 PM
Hi Paulo,

In my opinion, yes the deal would be dead.  A bloke flogging watches in a pub might be able to entice a buyer by pretending to walk out but with a deal of this size I would say it's very unlikely.  Considering the money that both sides will have spent on legal/ audit/ accounting fees to get to this point drafting the Heads, Sale and Purchase Agreement, building the data room, providing all sorts of information, JP would have provided an extension if there was a reasonable chance of a deal.  Think of it like a house sale where you have spent conveyancing fees, had some remedial work done to repair things picked up in the survey etc.  You will only put the house back on the market if you are pretty sure that the buyer isn't going to complete...

With regards to the exclusivity and the unmasking of the buyer, I would say it is unlikely. Both sides have probably signed Non Disclosure Agreements that prevent each other from saying anything.  Also, if I were advising JP, I would strongly advise against unmasking as I see no upside in doing so other than to satisfy supporter curiosity.  JP's next buyer could make contact with the Chinese consortium/ their advisers and get valuable insight that could derail the next purchase.  If your house sale fell through would you tell the next buyers the name of the previous buyer so that they could go and have a chat about the price, the damp or the neighbours....?

Again, all of this is just guess work and we might see the deal back on and the buyers holding blue and white scarves in the E&S tomorrow....

Great reply as ever, many thanks Stox

(its Daz not Paulo by the way)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 24, 2015, 03:48:23 PM
I read a tweet on sons of Albion that they would not commit to team investment. I know we will probably never know but if that's the case then it's good it's dead with these people. I guess this will run and run

The irony...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 24, 2015, 03:51:08 PM
I trust JP's motives in pulling out of the deal.  He would not have pulled out if either (a) the sale proceeds were guaranteed, or (b) he thought it was in the club's best interests to go ahead.   He is no different from anybody else in selling a business, and we must remember that he only owns 88% of the club.  He has to also consider the best interests of the other 12% shareholders.

It is quite possible that the prospective owners failed the FA's due diligence as "fit and proper persons".   it is also possible that the lawyers unearthed things which really worried them.  That is mere speculation - we are unlikely to ever know, just by the very nature of such scenarios. 

What we do know is that JP was keen to sell, keen enough to enter into exclusivity.  Whatever cropped up, it cropped up late.  Better to find out late in the hour than after the deal.   

He also said that he wanted the deal done by midsummer and did not wish to destabilise the club, so he's hardly going to turn now to his second choice buyer.

It of course leaves the question of what next?  More of the same is hardly the worst option in the interim, as the club is in no trouble at all.  The only area for concern is the potential impact on the transfer dealings.   Is TP going to have to sell Berahino in order to finance the essential purchases, and to rely on getting a major striker in on a loan deal for the season?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 24, 2015, 04:15:45 PM
Hopefully Jeremy will now try and protect his investment by bringing in some quality players. Just think what relegation could do to the clubs value.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cuckfield1704 on July 24, 2015, 04:28:45 PM
I trust JP's motives in pulling out of the deal.  He would not have pulled out if either (a) the sale proceeds were guaranteed, or (b) he thought it was in the club's best interests to go ahead.   He is no different from anybody else in selling a business, and we must remember that he only owns 88% of the club.  He has to also consider the best interests of the other 12% shareholders.

It is quite possible that the prospective owners failed the FA's due diligence as "fit and proper persons".   it is also possible that the lawyers unearthed things which really worried them.  That is mere speculation - we are unlikely to ever know, just by the very nature of such scenarios. 

What we do know is that JP was keen to sell, keen enough to enter into exclusivity.  Whatever cropped up, it cropped up late.  Better to find out late in the hour than after the deal.   

He also said that he wanted the deal done by midsummer and did not wish to destabilise the club, so he's hardly going to turn now to his second choice buyer.

It of course leaves the question of what next?  More of the same is hardly the worst option in the interim, as the club is in no trouble at all.  The only area for concern is the potential impact on the transfer dealings.   Is TP going to have to sell Berahino in order to finance the essential purchases, and to rely on getting a major striker in on a loan deal for the season?

As is their culture the buyers could also have introduced some late 'bargaining' changes. This will have teed off JP.
Trust has gone and the deal is dead.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on July 24, 2015, 04:31:52 PM
The only thing that disappoints me, is the number of people quick to jump at an opportunity to slate Jeremy Peace. :-X

Totally agree. I do believe that he was doing it for the right reasons but it's now over, done with , finished - lets now move on to slating him about our transfer policy and lack of signings😒 .some people only see the negatives.
I still have cause for optimism and faith that we will survive !!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on July 24, 2015, 05:17:48 PM
As is their culture the buyers could also have introduced some late 'bargaining' changes. This will have teed off JP.
Trust has gone and the deal is dead.

I think this likely. Chinese do their business very differently to Western Europe.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 24, 2015, 05:43:54 PM
Perhaps they wanted to pay in instalments?  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 24, 2015, 05:45:37 PM
Nah!
JP found a chink in their armour.  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on July 24, 2015, 05:53:20 PM
I think its bloody pathetic to be honest...we drag out the bleeding  obvious, sign bugger all for weeks......we all knew...we all knew...... it would end like this. JOKE,
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 24, 2015, 05:55:42 PM
Apparently the potential buyers were looking to pay over a number of years rather than up front. They'd have effectively owned the club before paying for it in full, and so any hopes of those buyers splashing cash was going to be dashed. Nobody here can be disappointed in that considering the future payments would be funded by loans or partially through revenue produced by the club they don't even fully own yet.

Good move Jezza.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 24, 2015, 05:58:14 PM
Apparently the potential buyers were looking to pay over a number of years rather than up front. They'd have effectively owned the club before paying for it in full, and so any hopes of those buyers splashing cash was going to be dashed. Nobody here can be disappointed in that considering the future payments would be funded by loans or partially through revenue produced by the club they don't even fully own yet.

Good move Jezza.
find it hard to believe it was that simplistic surely method of payment would have been op of the list once a price had been agreed?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 24, 2015, 06:01:12 PM
Apparently the potential buyers were looking to pay over a number of years rather than up front. They'd have effectively owned the club before paying for it in full, and so any hopes of those buyers splashing cash was going to be dashed. Nobody here can be disappointed in that considering the future payments would be funded by loans or partially through revenue produced by the club they don't even fully own yet.

Good move Jezza.
didn't Jeremy  do something similar when he took over at albion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 24, 2015, 06:01:58 PM
Apparently the potential buyers were looking to pay over a number of years rather than up front. They'd have effectively owned the club before paying for it in full, and so any hopes of those buyers splashing cash was going to be dashed. Nobody here can be disappointed in that considering the future payments would be funded by loans or partially through revenue produced by the club they don't even fully own yet.

Good move Jezza.

If hat's the case let's hope they buy the Vile.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on July 24, 2015, 06:07:32 PM
Predictable.............and so,so,so,so,so,so pathetic.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 24, 2015, 06:15:49 PM
didn't Jeremy  do something similar when he took over at albion.

Not really as he wasn't buying the club from anyone. He was a shareholder who grew his shares gradually. He hasn't technically owned the club until his share purchases last season. Taking control from the club from within, whilst actually working at the club, setting up academies, running the club day to day for over a decade is much MUCH different than trying to take all those shares in one go and owning the club without paying for it in full. That's like you building a house, adding to it when you have the money, making it nice and homely, then me coming in and saying give me your house I'll give you the money in a bit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hertsbaggiebird on July 24, 2015, 06:38:03 PM
Really not surprised it hasn't gone through , is anyone ? 
We never have much luck and can only dream of an owner with deep pockets who is willing to gamble to make us better.
However, the disappointment and excitement of what 'could have been with the right owners' must be tempered, as many have said, but the slight relief that at least we know what to expect in the near future - more of the same good and bad.

No doubt we will start to get rumblings from Pulis and clashes with Peace as the slowness, risk-adverse and cumbersome transfer policy frustrates and it's doubtful we will get much speculation on 'exciting' signings that even the likes of Swansea, Stoke and Southampton now seem to regularly come up. I feel we have got away with two possible relegations in the past two season despite some appalling transfer business - we really got lucky with Berahino thankfully and the appointment of Pulis was the best business we have done for a number of years now.

Still, you never know, maybe Peace will back the manager and speculate a little for once ?     :o

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 24, 2015, 06:41:04 PM
Not really as he wasn't buying the club from anyone. He was a shareholder who grew his shares gradually. He hasn't technically owned the club until his share purchases last season. Taking control from the club from within, whilst actually working at the club, setting up academies, running the club day to day for over a decade is much MUCH different than trying to take all those shares in one go and owning the club without paying for it in full. That's like you building a house, adding to it when you have the money, making it nice and homely, then me coming in and saying give me your house I'll give you the money in a bit.
If you're interested I've got a nice bungalow in Snowdonia national park with sea views.
will take £35.000 a year payable over a decade.
WARNING: travelling to and from  the Hawthorns gets tedious. oh and there's Welshmen around  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on July 24, 2015, 06:43:50 PM
To say it is predictable is in some ways right. As I have been saying for 6 months, sporting asset sales are incredibly difficult and fall over for all sorts of reasons. One look at the fees involved will give an idea as to how hard they are to land. I am involved in three at the moment. One has a 5.5% fee, the other is 3.5% with a $750k corporate finance fee and the other has a sliding fee from 3.5-6%. All are over $100m in size. People are willing (if not happy) to write a cheque for $5m+ to someone who can land these deals as they are so hard to land.  If these deals were anything like easy or likely the fees would be tiny.  To put it in context, for selling $100m of a quoted company we charge 0.2%. For every $1 we raise for sporting assets, our fee is 30 TIMES higher than for selling shares in regular quoted business.

You have to find the right person (and in my long essay 6 months ago I suggested that there are probably fewer than 300 people out of 7bn that have sufficient wealth to buy Albion (someone with £150m isn't going to spend £150m on Albion anymore than you would spend your entire wealth on a car). Out of those you have to find those who WANT to spend £150m on a football club. Being able to buy and wanting to buy are two different things. There are lots of things I could buy but wouldn't want to. If 10% of people who COULD buy Albion WANT to buy Albion, there are maybe 30 buyers.  That feels about right to me or perhaps a touch too high.  You then have to get to them.  It takes more than just an email to hamadbinjasim@qatar.gov to make an introduction.  You then have to persuade them to buy Albion rather than dozens of other investment opportunities. You can't begin to imagine the ferocious selling that these guys are subject to every single day. Everyone who is building a hotel, developing a residential complex, exploring for oil etc etc etc is pitching them every day, all day. I have sat in majlis waiting to meet UHNWIs and there have been a dozen people from Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc just waiting for their 15 mins to pitch their idea.  IF you do get a bite and get to Heads of Terms, there is still a 75% chance it will collapse because of due diligence or just a new shinier opportunity appearing elsewhere.

To say it is predictable is probably fair. To say it is pathetic isn't fair at all. It would be like you organising a family holiday in the UK and then being called pathetic when it rains (which was somewhat predictable). We all know the risks but that shouldn't stop anyone trying.  People who try to develop new medicines, invent things, launch new businesses, start new rock bands know that it is "predictable" that they will probably fail but are the "pathetic" for trying...?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on July 24, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
I really would be interested in the other sides view on what went wrong rather than Peace's spin on things - he may of changed the goalposts and wanted more cash ? 
No one will probably ever know what actually went on like some of the fall outs with previous managers but it would be great to get some balanced information.

The excitement has kind of gone a little for our future after this as we could have really established ourselves with the right new owners  - add in the non-existent transfers so far and the slow, slow summer over sponsorships/takeovers/kit launch etc and the win over Chelski seems a long way off and we haven't really built upon the 'Pulis' positivity factor ! 

ALL VERY PREDICTABLE IN THE END !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: GrGr on July 24, 2015, 07:04:31 PM
I really would be interested in the other sides view on what went wrong rather than Peace's spin on things - he may of changed the goalposts and wanted more cash ? 
No one will probably ever know what actually went on like some of the fall outs with previous managers but it would be great to get some balanced information.

The excitement has kind of gone a little for our future after this as we could have really established ourselves with the right new owners  - add in the non-existent transfers so far and the slow, slow summer over sponsorships/takeovers/kit launch etc and the win over Chelski seems a long way off and we haven't really built upon the 'Pulis' positivity factor ! 

ALL VERY PREDICTABLE IN THE END !

Well, it appears that these guys were not the "right new owners" so what is there to wail about? There are by far worse things than having JP in charge, which the rather large number of clubs that got taken over by the "wrong" owners can attest to. We probably dodged a bullet this time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 24, 2015, 07:22:57 PM
Not really as he wasn't buying the club from anyone. He was a shareholder who grew his shares gradually. He hasn't technically owned the club until his share purchases last season. Taking control from the club from within, whilst actually working at the club, setting up academies, running the club day to day for over a decade is much MUCH different than trying to take all those shares in one go and owning the club without paying for it in full.

Come on.  Don't make him out to be a saint.  He's a clever business man.

You missed out the share issues bit (x2) where the club borrowed the money from the bank to buy his shares and the club paid the money back.  Let alone valuing the club at £12.6m just 6 years ago when 'rationalising' the shareholder base.

We all know that money is what JP's interested in.  He has grown the club, invested in infrastructure and improved every aspect of the club in the last 13 years.  But this is a side affect of him growing his asset to be worth the maximum amount possible.

When he bought into the club his personal worth was in the region of £3m.  Over 13 years he has paid himself over £10m and has grown his asset, that he wants to sell for £150m.  And WBAFC have done quite well too. 

If you want to admire people that make money then fine, but I support WBAFC.  There are times when JP has held us back and there are times that the stable platform that his fiscal policies have provided have worked very well for the club. 

Someone started a thread recently called something along the line of 'dare to dream'.  Having read that thread (and plenty more besides) many West Brom fans don't dare to dream and are happy to doff their cap to the owner and be thankful for what they're given.

Where would WBAFC be if JP had operated the finances of the club in exactly the same way - except with in an open and welcoming way?  Has the share skullduggery made any difference to the path of WBAFC (i.e. JP runs the club in the same way, but doesn't mess around with shares)?  What difference does it make to be open and straight-forward with sharing financial information rather than running a closed book?  How much higher esteem would he be held in if he did this and had paid respect to the club's history and traditions (before the last 12 months).  I'd say that we'd have a significantly less divided club and the only other difference is that JP wouldn't have such a well packaged asset (i.e. concentrated the shares into his own possession)... and it doesn't look like he's selling anyhow.

I'm pleased that JP isn't selling if the potential buyers weren't straight up sports investors with money to spend.  If they were speculating and don't have the cash to grow their asset then they are no better than sticking with the devil we all know.  If we are looking for the right buyer based on them investing you'd have thought that we'd have been investigating and vetting potential buyers during the early due diligence - i.e. before the exclusivity period.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on July 24, 2015, 07:55:22 PM
I thought something would crop up to scupper this deal. It went on for too long, but I am glad that the club was not sold to venky's type buyers.Hopefully JP will find someone else and in the meantime loosen the purse strings. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 24, 2015, 08:03:03 PM
That is a top post Mr Cynical and sums up the way i feel about him too.
Like you i support WBA not Jeremy Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bigrob80 on July 24, 2015, 08:10:09 PM
Myself thinks he has done the best thing for WBA, maybe we don't get a new owner just yet, but let's be honest I would rather have JP in charge then another joke of an owner!
I hoped it would go through, but only if it was the right person/group who could take us forward as a football club in a correct and proper manor, I am guessing admittedly, but I think he did not commit because he has a genuine love for our club and to me that speaks volumes!
He may not be the most forthcoming with funds but you got to admit when things have gone wrong ie the last couple of managers/seasons he has made changes.
I admit I was excited at the thought of a takeover but we get to relive the whole experience over again, it truly is a roller coaster ride being a baggies fan!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 24, 2015, 08:19:56 PM
I think most of us hoped it would go through,but also harboured doubts about the implications. Reading Peace's statement's he is leaving it on the market and open to other offers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 24, 2015, 08:39:08 PM
I think most of us hoped it would go through,but also harboured doubts about the implications. Reading Peace's statement's he is leaving it on the market and open to other offers.
The need is squad strength. He needs to back Pulis now. Although you and I are in differing camp hn it come to Peace I respect your opinion sir. I do think we'll be sold before Christmas because this deal was almost completed. What's that old saying "Marry in Haste, Repent at Leisure"  :D 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on July 24, 2015, 08:44:58 PM
  If we are looking for the right buyer based on them investing you'd have thought that we'd have been investigating and vetting potential buyers during the early due diligence - i.e. before the exclusivity period.

I'm not in the know on this deal in any way but I would be astonished if JP's advisers hadn't conducted very extensive proof of funds at an early stage. It is Corporate Finance 101 stuff. 

Sadly, there is a big difference between proving means and proving intent. I could walk into a car showroom tomorrow with a bank statement showing that I could buy but my intent might be anything from very serious buyer through to merely wanting a test drive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 24, 2015, 09:02:28 PM
I'm not in the know on this deal in any way but I would be astonished if JP's advisers hadn't conducted very extensive proof of funds at an early stage. It is Corporate Finance 101 stuff. 

Sadly, there is a big difference between proving means and proving intent. I could walk into a car showroom tomorrow with a bank statement showing that I could buy but my intent might be anything from very serious buyer through to merely wanting a test drive.
Sheffield Wednesday had the same Problem with a tyre kicker last year. Financially we're in a good place, so no need to drop pur draws until A buyer who'll invest to move us forward can be found and they will we're debt free or the liabilities we have are very low 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 24, 2015, 09:12:40 PM
I'm not in the know on this deal in any way but I would be astonished if JP's advisers hadn't conducted very extensive proof of funds at an early stage. It is Corporate Finance 101 stuff. 

Sadly, there is a big difference between proving means and proving intent. I could walk into a car showroom tomorrow with a bank statement showing that I could buy but my intent might be anything from very serious buyer through to merely wanting a test drive.

If the potential buyer was over-leveraged then the large Chinese stock market fall may well have meant that they could not complete, even though they appeared to have ample wealth when entering into exclusivity.

The phrase "at this time" in JP's press release appears to me to be significant.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Nickwba1 on July 24, 2015, 09:23:55 PM
I doubt the recent stock market fall in China would have had a massive effect. It's still one of the best performing in the world and up 13.5% since start of the year despite the fall off. It's been massively overstated in the media here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 24, 2015, 09:33:03 PM
I doubt the recent stock market fall in China would have had a massive effect. It's still one of the best performing in the world and up 13.5% since start of the year despite the fall off. It's been massively overstated in the media here.

It all depends on what leverage they might have taken, and when.  Chinese banks may also have drastically reduced their credit lending books.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Nickwba1 on July 24, 2015, 09:43:03 PM
The opposite is probably true with Chinese banks..they are again on a lending spree, more likely if it's on foreign investments too. If we were talking about a bigger Chinese consortium or Wanda for example i'd be pretty certain their access to money is going to be easier that those with minimal investment overseas.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 24, 2015, 09:48:35 PM
The opposite is probably true with Chinese banks..they are again on a lending spree, more likely if it's on foreign investments too. If we were talking about a bigger Chinese consortium or Wanda for example i'd be pretty certain their access to money is going to be easier that those with minimal investment overseas.

Thing is we don't know who it was - we can only speculate
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on July 24, 2015, 09:49:08 PM
I would agree that stock market falls are unlikely to have had much of an effect. Stock market ownership levels are pretty low in China; most Chinese own far more cash and property than equity. The currency would be far more important had it been very weak over the last year as this would have made Albion more expensive but the currency hasn't done very much either.

It might be that Chinese banks have tightened their books but then again, it is just as likely that the credit (if indeed there was bank finance involved) would have been supplied by a European/UK bank and they are still lending.  Bond yields have been rising and that would have made such financing a bit more expensive but only at the margin. 

To be honest, I don't think it's down to stock markets, Chinese credit books, bond yields or anything that subtle.  My gut tells me that it's the Chinese just being flaky but that's just my experience...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on July 25, 2015, 02:12:57 AM
Reading reports on the proposed take over it is referred to as "suspended" and in JP's statement he says:-

"It is now clear to me that this potential purchaser is unable to fulfil the terms of that agreement at this time,"

The telling part for me is the "at this time". So, could it still be on in the near future?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 25, 2015, 03:09:46 AM
I get the impression that the dip in the Chinese money markets meant that the prospective purchasers couldn't afford to pay JP his full £150m up front. That being the case they wouldn't be able to plough any cash into the club for transfers. In other words, they would be a potential liability rather than an asset and only interested in how much they could make for themselves from next yesr's TV deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on July 25, 2015, 03:40:40 AM
The constant spin from Peace and the lack of any real insight means all you can do is speculate. What amazes me is how quick so many posters are to see Jeremy as the good guy. He misleads everyone with worthless statements such as the sale will not affect transfers, the head coach must be suckered in because he wanted the majority of the transfer business done by the time we left for the USA. We bid for players who we have no chance of getting at the price and then indignantly claim the club will not be held to ransom. Two weeks to the start of the season and one player in for 1.5m, five out or as good as.
Simple fact is that Peace wants his money out, when you strike a deal and go into due diligence material changes to the financial health of a company change the sale price. Peace was never going to pay the money to get these rumored players because the risk was they were never going to be valued at the purchase price. Splashing 20m in transfers was a complete non starter.
I just hate the BS we get fed and how little he thinks of the supporters intelligence.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 25, 2015, 06:19:29 AM
The constant spin from Peace and the lack of any real insight means all you can do is speculate. What amazes me is how quick so many posters are to see Jeremy as the good guy. He misleads everyone with worthless statements such as the sale will not affect transfers, the head coach must be suckered in because he wanted the majority of the transfer business done by the time we left for the USA. We bid for players who we have no chance of getting at the price and then indignantly claim the club will not be held to ransom. Two weeks to the start of the season and one player in for 1.5m, five out or as good as.
Simple fact is that Peace wants his money out, when you strike a deal and go into due diligence material changes to the financial health of a company change the sale price. Peace was never going to pay the money to get these rumored players because the risk was they were never going to be valued at the purchase price. Splashing 20m in transfers was a complete non starter.
I just hate the BS we get fed and how little he thinks of the supporters intelligence.
I assume that Pulis wanted us to look at Ba and Gignac but we could only get them on our budget, i.e. not go over £80k p/w on these players. So I assume we looked at them but backed off when the money became stupid...what is particularly wrong with that?
The window is far from over and players will be coming in within the next few weeks. '5 out' but most of them offer nothing to the team, it's hardly been a disastrous window so far and it's still weeks until kick-off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 25, 2015, 06:48:46 AM
The constant spin from Peace and the lack of any real insight means all you can do is speculate. What amazes me is how quick so many posters are to see Jeremy as the good guy. He misleads everyone with worthless statements such as the sale will not affect transfers, the head coach must be suckered in because he wanted the majority of the transfer business done by the time we left for the USA. We bid for players who we have no chance of getting at the price and then indignantly claim the club will not be held to ransom. Two weeks to the start of the season and one player in for 1.5m, five out or as good as.
Simple fact is that Peace wants his money out, when you strike a deal and go into due diligence material changes to the financial health of a company change the sale price. Peace was never going to pay the money to get these rumored players because the risk was they were never going to be valued at the purchase price. Splashing 20m in transfers was a complete non starter.
I just hate the BS we get fed and how little he thinks of the supporters intelligence.

Key word here is intelligence

Some supporters would have us pay over the odds for good but mercenary players.

Why should we pay more than a player is worth??

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 25, 2015, 07:16:55 AM
Key word here is intelligence

Some supporters would have us pay over the odds for good but mercenary players.

Why should we pay more than a player is worth??
The club cannot have it both ways though, we have screwed some crazy prices out of other clubs when selling our players. sometimes if its what's needed or what the manager wants you have to pay the price.
we as supporters pay a lot more than something's worth every time you buy the new strip or food and drink at the ground.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Brummie Road on July 25, 2015, 08:45:51 AM
The constant spin from Peace and the lack of any real insight means all you can do is speculate. What amazes me is how quick so many posters are to see Jeremy as the good guy. He misleads everyone with worthless statements such as the sale will not affect transfers, the head coach must be suckered in because he wanted the majority of the transfer business done by the time we left for the USA. We bid for players who we have no chance of getting at the price and then indignantly claim the club will not be held to ransom. Two weeks to the start of the season and one player in for 1.5m, five out or as good as.
Simple fact is that Peace wants his money out, when you strike a deal and go into due diligence material changes to the financial health of a company change the sale price. Peace was never going to pay the money to get these rumored players because the risk was they were never going to be valued at the purchase price. Splashing 20m in transfers was a complete non starter.
I just hate the BS we get fed and how little he thinks of the supporters intelligence.

When you say the "constant spin" from Peace are you referring to the 2 or 3 Club Statements on this issue on the Official site as from what I can see all the "spin" is from the media and supporters?

What "BS" are we being fed?

You moan about "spin" but your post is made up entirely of that and not backed up by any substance whatsoever?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on July 25, 2015, 08:54:04 AM
The club cannot have it both ways though, we have screwed some crazy prices out of other clubs when selling our players. sometimes if its what's needed or what the manager wants you have to pay the price.
we as supporters pay a lot more than something's worth every time you buy the new strip or food and drink at the ground.

Can't disagree with that.
The new going rate for a player at this level is not the rate of even a few years ago and you have to effectively pay that for players you really want and will make a difference otherwise you don't just stand still, you quickly go backwards as a team.
It's also a big test as to whether Peace will really back Pulis when tough decisions have to be made and we have to either pay that bit extra to get a key signing or miss and get an inferior target who just becomes another 'squad filler' like so many last season !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 25, 2015, 09:11:20 AM
The club cannot have it both ways though, we have screwed some crazy prices out of other clubs when selling our players. sometimes if its what's needed or what the manager wants you have to pay the price.
we as supporters pay a lot more than something's worth every time you buy the new strip or food and drink at the ground.

Yes but £10-15 per shirt more than its worth or £1 on beer is not relevant to £4-6 million pound extra on top of the valuation we have for a transfer fee and £80-100k a week over 3-4 years is it....I don't see the comparison

Yes we have gotten more money out of clubs for some players but that was obviously what the buying club was willing to pay, I don't see any other club stumping up the kind of cash QPR want for either Phillips or Austin which for them is a great thing but people are not paying them the money they want so they are not worth that.

Its not having it both ways its living within our means and not bankrupting the club which I'm happy doesn't happen

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on July 25, 2015, 09:15:52 AM
What Peace's statement should have read is this:

"While I know my approach can sometimes be described as tight fisted and small time I would like to assure supporters that the squad will be significantly bolstered by the Man City game. We could leave it until the end of August but as there are four games before then we need to have everything in place to give Tony and his staff time to bed the squad together."

"There has been no major footballing event this summer so I can't use the excuse that agents/ players have been away. I did say lessons have been learned from the last two years of poor transfer windows but as of yet I haven't practiced what I preach."

"I fully appreciate that there are now just over two weeks till the start of the upcoming season and as of yet we haven't done anything remotely positive to give supporters a cause to look forward to it. I promise from this day forward that we will start acting like 19 other clubs in this division do and start living in the real world."

Yours Faithfully

Jezza
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 25, 2015, 09:47:04 AM
For those fans who think JP is the best thing since sliced bread please have some perspective, this man is only in it for the money. Little things are coming out about why this deal fell through the main issue was that he wanted all the money up front for his stake within a certain time frame which has not gone down well with the Chinese.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on July 25, 2015, 09:50:19 AM
Really happy with this decision, JP has been and will continue to be our best chairman of modern times. He will still sell soon but this one obviously wasn't right for him or the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 25, 2015, 09:57:06 AM
For those fans who think JP is the best thing since sliced bread please have some perspective, this man is only in it for the money. Little things are coming out about why this deal fell through the main issue was that he wanted all the money up front for his stake within a certain time frame which has not gone down well with the Chinese.


Initial negotiations, before exclusivity would include key issues, maybe a Letter of Intent , probably including time frame, purchase price and payment terms, compensation or penalty for early withdrawal, key issues etc. would be included. In company sales it is normal to have funds in place to purchase shares at an agreed price,  however due diligence as I said before is where both sides evaluate risk and attempt to modify terms and extract warranties and guarantees. From a sellers point of view risk to the deal was discovered hence temporary or permanent suspension of negotiations = real world ;D ;
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 25, 2015, 10:08:26 AM

Initial negotiations, before exclusivity would include key issues, maybe a Letter of Intent , probably including time frame, purchase price and payment terms, compensation or penalty for early withdrawal, key issues etc. would be included. In company sales it is normal to have funds in place to purchase shares at an agreed price,  however due diligence as I said before is where both sides evaluate risk and attempt to modify terms and extract warranties and guarantees. From a sellers point of view risk to the deal was discovered hence temporary or permanent suspension of negotiations = real world ;D ;
only hearing gossip that Chinese felt insulted by insistence on fee more so after financial crash in their stock market
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 25, 2015, 10:10:22 AM
I wonder if JP's statement is just a ploy till the transfer window closes just to save us getting mugged off. ???
His statement more or less says "not now" 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 25, 2015, 10:16:07 AM
For those fans who think JP is the best thing since sliced bread please have some perspective, this man is only in it for the money. Little things are coming out about why this deal fell through the main issue was that he wanted all the money up front for his stake within a certain time frame which has not gone down well with the Chinese.

And if they are serious about buying this club they should be paying it upfront.

Sorry but if they were trying to structure the payments for buying the club then I'm happy they haven't bought us.

it's not like they are buying a Man Utd or Arsenal where the price would be 5-6x more.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 25, 2015, 10:16:45 AM
I wonder if JP's statement is just a ploy till the transfer window closes just to save us getting mugged off. ???
His statementtr more or less says "not now"
transfer market has adjusted to the new wealth that clubs will get with new TV deal
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 25, 2015, 10:19:02 AM
only hearing gossip that Chinese felt insulted by insistence on fee more so after financial crash in their stock market

The Chinese Stock Crash is not our problem though is it nor is it JP's

The way I see it is we have got lucky as we could have been sold before and our new owners lost a lot of money on the Chinese stock crash and then asset strip us to claw some money back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 25, 2015, 10:22:04 AM
And if they are serious about buying this club they should be paying it upfront.

Sorry but if they were trying to structure the payments for buying the club then I'm happy they haven't bought us.

it's not like they are buying a Man Utd or Arsenal where the price would be 5mi-6x more.
missing the point the insistence on the fee has insulted these people especially after financial crash
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 25, 2015, 10:22:25 AM
gutted really because i wanted for our great club to be more competitive all the hype got the better of me. oh well Probably for the best eh
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 25, 2015, 10:24:55 AM
missing the point the insistence on the fee has insulted these people especially after financial crash

They are insulted by an owner of a club asking for the money upfront on a club that will make them money and enhance their brand??

Ill bet JP is insulted too

and no I'm not missing the point

you are not making a point

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 25, 2015, 10:28:42 AM
Look what little gossip I got was everything was going on on both side then financial hiccup in China spooked negotiations with one side insisting on the money which there entitled to do and the other side being insulted by this behavior as exclusivity had been agreed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 25, 2015, 10:43:25 AM
Cut the childish petty comments. Come on lads, supposed to be grown adults not little kids
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 25, 2015, 10:50:49 AM
I think we may have dodged a bullet.
So many dodgy owners who invest in football clubs as an assett to fall back on should their other businesses take a dip.
There have been some successful takeovers by rich investors, but none of them were Chinese.
Money didn't help wolves, villa, QPR, or blues.
I think most of us, myself included, have all got carried away with dreams of a rich owner taking us to new heights.
The other side is we could have been a cash cow to milk.

Just a shame that we have had our hopes built up and then dashed again, but hey, that's normal following Albion.

If we continue to evolve without the help of a billionaire then we will be the envy of the footballing world.
We are still one of the 40 richest clubs in the world anyway.  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2015, 11:20:29 AM
I think we may have dodged a bullet.
So many dodgy owners who invest in football clubs as an assett to fall back on should their other businesses take a dip.
There have been some successful takeovers by rich investors, but none of them were Chinese.
Money didn't help wolves, villa, QPR, or blues.
I think most of us, myself included, have all got carried away with dreams of a rich owner taking us to new heights.
The other side is we could have been a cash cow to milk.

Just a shame that we have had our hopes built up and then dashed again, but hey, that's normal following Albion.

If we continue to evolve without the help of a billionaire then we will be the envy of the footballing world.
We are still one of the 40 richest clubs in the world anyway.  :)

What's a cash cow?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 25, 2015, 11:25:49 AM
What's a cash cow?

Ask Mr Peace.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 25, 2015, 11:33:11 AM
Ask Mr Peace.  ;)

Bit unfair there mate love or hate Peace when he goes we will financially stable. Which is more than can be said for the likes of Trev the shed and Tony Hale

What's a cash cow?

Figure of speech, Let's a Solvent company that gets new owners only to be asset stripped and its account's raided. Milking it dry, hence the term "Cash Cow" hope this helps
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 25, 2015, 11:41:48 AM
Reading reports on the proposed take over it is referred to as "suspended" and in JP's statement he says:-

"It is now clear to me that this potential purchaser is unable to fulfil the terms of that agreement at this time,"

The telling part for me is the "at this time". So, could it still be on in the near future?
I think it's just formal speech, personally I wouldn't read too much into it. It's basically saying "the buyer couldn't come up with the cash" in business talk.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 25, 2015, 11:50:01 AM
At least we know there are other buyers interested. The Next time this happens there shouldn't be a sh*t and rush to complete, while also trying to make signings
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dudleylad on July 25, 2015, 12:21:57 PM
I think this proves that JP has the clubs best interests at heart.

Hes been a fantastic chairman for us no matter what anyone says.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on July 25, 2015, 12:24:44 PM
How do you know there are other buyers interested? Just because peace makes that statement does not make it real.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 25, 2015, 12:25:13 PM
Thing is though we have become one of the richest clubs in the world, yes, this is mostly down to Peace's shrewd efforts, but he is also the major shareholder.
When he finally goes and takes his money out of the club how much will we be worth, and how much will be invested by the new owner(s)?
Will we be back to square one?

When we had a board of directors and shareholders all decisions playing wise and financial went through them.
What we have now is a sole owner, or maybe a soul owner, who has the ultimate say in all decisions.
Like it or not the future of West Bromwich Albion is in the hands of one man.
What happens when he goes,or god forbid something happens to him?

He has changed the club yes, he has made us stable yes, but only while he is in charge. People seem to overlook the fact that he has made himself wealthy out of the club with minimal input from his own pocket.
He used the clubs money (allegedly) to buy out shareholders,for his own personal gain, but stalls with the clubs money when it comes to buying players for the clubs personal gain.

This, and only this is my main dislike of him.

But how wealthy will the club be when he has taken the lion's share out of it?

I think it is a bad thing when one man has total control of something,be it a business,a football club or a country.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dont ask me to choose luv on July 25, 2015, 12:37:49 PM
Thing is though we have become one of the richest clubs in the world, yes, this is mostly down to Peace's shrewd efforts, but he is also the major shareholder.
When he finally goes and takes his money out of the club how much will we be worth, and how much will be invested by the new owner(s)?
Will we be back to square one?

When we had a board of directors and shareholders all decisions playing wise and financial went through them.
What we have now is a sole owner, or maybe a soul owner, who has the ultimate say in all decisions.
Like it or not the future of West Bromwich Albion is in the hands of one man.
What happens when he goes,or god forbid something happens to him?

He has changed the club yes, he has made us stable yes, but only while he is in charge. People seem to overlook the fact that he has made himself wealthy out of the club with minimal input from his own pocket.
He used the clubs money (allegedly) to buy out shareholders,for his own personal gain, but stalls with the clubs money when it comes to buying players for the clubs personal gain.

This, and only this is my main dislike of him.

But how wealthy will the club be when he has taken the lion's share out of it?

I think it is a bad thing when one man has total control of something,be it a business,a football club or a country.

I may be wrong but won't JP only take the money offered by the new purchaser as opposed to taking anything from the clubs current finances?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 25, 2015, 12:49:17 PM
I may be wrong but won't JP only take the money offered by the new purchaser as opposed to taking anything from the clubs current finances?

Well, that is the question. I don't think anyone knows what the club is worth, only the figure Peace has valued it at. Does anyone know what the clubs finances are, and how much of it are tied to West Bromwich Holdings?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on July 25, 2015, 12:52:20 PM
The club is worth what someone will pay, if as seller you don't think its enough you don't sell, just like our transfers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 25, 2015, 01:00:57 PM
How do you know there are other buyers interested? Just because peace makes that statement does not make it real.

Why lie? It would be so much easier to say nothing, than, give his detractors who I'm sure he's aware of a stick to beat himself with
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on July 25, 2015, 01:42:04 PM
he needs to generate the illusion of interest to keep the price up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 25, 2015, 02:11:09 PM
I think this proves that JP has the clubs best interests at heart.
I don't think it proves anything, as we don't know the reasons why he's pulled out. It might be because he felt he was going to get less money than he thought he was originally, with that being sufficient justification to make him want to pull out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on July 25, 2015, 04:23:29 PM
Well, that is the question. I don't think anyone knows what the club is worth, only the figure Peace has valued it at. Does anyone know what the clubs finances are, and how much of it are tied to West Bromwich Holdings?

The clubs finances are fully available from Companies House and are relatively transparent. The amortisation policy of any football club can make the cash flow v p&l a bit hard to follow but Albion's accounts really aren't especially opaque.

Valuation is very hard for a club such as Albion. The two most obvious metrics are either P/E ratio or DCF (Discounted Cash Flow) but neither is really appropriate as our profits and cash flows would change so drastically if we were to be relegated. No-one can really pay 10x profits (which is roughly what £150m equates to) as no-one can say with any confidence whether we will be in the Premier League for 10 years.   It is much easier to analyse and club such as Everton as the chance of relegation is much less.

If I were valuing Albion it would be based on the net cash that could be generated after financing.  If you are borrowing £120m out of £150m (Loan to Value circa 80%) , you are risking little of your own money and with potential profits of £25-40m (see my earlier note on potential profits post the new Sky deal), the ROI would be enormous  and also allow for debt to be melted off over 5 years.  I can easily see how £150m is the right sort of price. However, such a deal wouldn't allow for the expansion of wages and transfer fees that supporters would want. I would just run it largely as JP has done but simply take more out as more comes in.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 25, 2015, 05:02:02 PM
Look what little gossip I got was everything was going on on both side then financial hiccup in China spooked negotiations with one side insisting on the money which there entitled to do and the other side being insulted by this behavior as exclusivity had been agreed

Exclusivity just means we would deal with them exclusively and not with any other parties it doesn't mean JP agreed to let them pay over a few years because the Chinese stock market crashed during negotiations.

I couldn't care less if they are insulted, they knew beforehand what the fee was, because they had financial difficulties part way through negotiations and tried to renegotiate the terms just makes it even more apparent that JP didn't think they were good enough to take us over and for that I'm pleased JP didn't go through with it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 25, 2015, 05:04:07 PM
How do you know there are other buyers interested? Just because peace makes that statement does not make it real.

If there wasn't any other interested parties an exclusivity agreement wouldn't have been needed.

There were other interested parties beforehand it make sense there still would be
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 25, 2015, 05:56:14 PM
The clubs finances are fully available from Companies House and are relatively transparent. The amortisation policy of any football club can make the cash flow v p&l a bit hard to follow but Albion's accounts really aren't especially opaque.

Valuation is very hard for a club such as Albion. The two most obvious metrics are either P/E ratio or DCF (Discounted Cash Flow) but neither is really appropriate as our profits and cash flows would change so drastically if we were to be relegated. No-one can really pay 10x profits (which is roughly what £150m equates to) as no-one can say with any confidence whether we will be in the Premier League for 10 years.   It is much easier to analyse and club such as Everton as the chance of relegation is much less.

If I were valuing Albion it would be based on the net cash that could be generated after financing.  If you are borrowing £120m out of £150m (Loan to Value circa 80%) , you are risking little of your own money and with potential profits of £25-40m (see my earlier note on potential profits post the new Sky deal), the ROI would be enormous  and also allow for debt to be melted off over 5 years.  I can easily see how £150m is the right sort of price. However, such a deal wouldn't allow for the expansion of wages and transfer fees that supporters would want. I would just run it largely as JP has done but simply take more out as more comes in.

This is pretty much as I see it. The income flows in the Premier League are strong we have a self sustaining model that does not require major investment.

The problem is relegation if that happens we have to go down strong to be able to come back at the moment that would be the case but piling up the sort of leverage suggested would make things very difficult in the Championship and they would only get tougher once the parachute payments expired.

It would be very foolish of any owner to buy the club without seriously considering what happens in the event of relegation and if their business model can not sustain a 50% drop in income initially and an 80% drop once the parachute payments expire they need to rethink.

Frankly I would be appalled to see an 4:1 debt to equity ratio the worst I'd want to see is 1:1 and the resources to plough equity in the event of relegation. As for the notion that the new ownership would be throwing money at the club that was always a pipedream.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on July 25, 2015, 08:19:07 PM
I think this clearly proves it wasn’t the Wanda Group, with Mr Wang Jianlin. Think it was a group of Chinese investors. Who's to say the the Americans or Australian parties wont come back for us now. I still think Peace would sell the club if he gets the right owners. Maybe wont be this season but could happen again next summer. ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on July 25, 2015, 08:50:22 PM


Frankly I would be appalled to see an 4:1 debt to equity ratio the worst I'd want to see is 1:1 and the resources to plough equity in the event of relegation. As for the notion that the new ownership would be throwing money at the club that was always a pipedream.
[/quote]

As a life long supporter I would agree with you. As an investor I would always go for high LTVs as the payoff is so asymmetric: If  we stay up then the river of cash flow sends my ROI through the roof. If we get relegated then it is the bank manager who has the sleepless nights.  Sadly I suspect their are more financially motivated buyers than angel investors who are willing to gamble their own money...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 25, 2015, 10:25:14 PM
Only problem I see people have is the fact he has made quite a bit of money himself from West Bromwich Albion but as long as we have been successful who cares?

Not as if the money he takes makes a massive difference to whether we finish top 6 or bottom 6
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 25, 2015, 11:57:18 PM
Exclusivity just means we would deal with them exclusively and not with any other parties it doesn't mean JP agreed to let them pay over a few years because the Chinese stock market crashed during negotiations.

I couldn't care less if they are insulted, they knew beforehand what the fee was, because they had financial difficulties part way through negotiations and tried to renegotiate the terms just makes it even more apparent that JP didn't think they were good enough to take us over and for that I'm pleased JP didn't go through with it.

I'm not saying you are wrong but you are only speculating as none of us know the facts and as I have mentioned before the other party involved hasn't commented which might contradict what JP has said in his formal announcement.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 26, 2015, 12:03:43 AM
I'm not saying you are wrong but you are only speculating as none of us know the facts and as I have mentioned before the other party involved hasn't commented which might contradict what JP has said in his formal announcement.

IF Chinese they would not say anything that would be seen as loss of face
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 26, 2015, 12:30:00 AM
IF Chinese they would not say anything that would be seen as loss of face
Don't I know it. Loss of face in this part of the world is a very big thing :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 26, 2015, 06:43:53 AM
I'm not saying you are wrong but you are only speculating as none of us know the facts and as I have mentioned before the other party involved hasn't commented which might contradict what JP has said in his formal announcement.

My reply was based upon the reply to me that these people were insulted that the fee was wanted upfront due to the Chinese stock market crash.

Everyone is speculating I know that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 26, 2015, 12:25:26 PM
As a life long supporter I would agree with you. As an investor I would always go for high LTVs as the payoff is so asymmetric: If  we stay up then the river of cash flow sends my ROI through the roof. If we get relegated then it is the bank manager who has the sleepless nights.  Sadly I suspect their are more financially motivated buyers than angel investors who are willing to gamble their own money...

Makes perfect sense which is why I was always a little bit wary of the takeover, my hope is still that we end up with a genuinely savvy sports investor who understands the relegation risk (you do wonder if the some of the American investors fully grasped that when buying Fulham for instance) and have a plan for dealing with it. If they can push some of that risk off on to a third party e.g. a bank or bondholders fine but what I do not want is one poor season (which can happen to any club) leading to a financial armageddon which would be near impossible to recover from.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 26, 2015, 12:31:32 PM
If this party was given exclusivity then they must have been the best of the bunch. We won't be sold anytime soon.

If it was because they wanted to pay in installments that changed Peace's mind then he wanted the money up front rather than any show of loyalty.
If they had handed him the money there and then, he would have taken it, had that been the case.

Like other's, i don't know the facts and reasons behind the breakdown, but if these were the reasons then to say that Peace is acting in the clubs interests is wide of the mark.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 26, 2015, 01:31:29 PM
If this party was given exclusivity then they must have been the best of the bunch. We won't be sold anytime soon.

If it was because they wanted to pay in installments that changed Peace's mind then he wanted the money up front rather than any show of loyalty.
If they had handed him the money there and then, he would have taken it, had that been the case.

Like other's, i don't know the facts and reasons behind the breakdown, but if these were the reasons then to say that Peace is acting in the clubs interests is wide of the mark.

I disagree, if they didn't have the money to buy the club, how could they invest in players for the future?
If they can't do that then Peace acted in the best interests of the club and as the seller himself. the two aspects are absolutely related
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on July 26, 2015, 02:52:24 PM
you only have Peace's side of this, so none of us know what really happened. I doubt there are other buyers waiting, the exclusivity period just gave one buyer who looked serious the chance to do their due diligence. A lot of deals fall apart at this point, especially sports related.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 26, 2015, 10:39:19 PM
All i am saying is that if it is true that they wanted to pay in installments, then yes, they couldn't afford to put money into the club.
But don't get fooled into thinking that Jeremy was thinking of us, i think he wanted all the money up front, his, "at this time," statement say's it all for me.

Jeremy loves installments when buying players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on July 26, 2015, 10:52:51 PM
All i am saying is that if it is true that they wanted to pay in installments, then yes, they couldn't afford to put money into the club.
But don't get fooled into thinking that Jeremy was thinking of us, i think he wanted all the money up front, his, "at this time," statement say's it all for me.

Jeremy loves installments when buying players.

Basing an opinion on an assumption is never a good idea.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 26, 2015, 10:57:52 PM
Basing an opinion on an assumption is never a good idea.
we're fans, it's what we do!!  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Scooby Doo on August 01, 2015, 03:12:14 PM
It's a shame that it fell through and I hope its rekindled. There's ties there, albeit from years ago but if any foreign investment is to come into the club i'd take even the slightest bit of history over none.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on August 02, 2015, 10:32:51 AM
All i am saying is that if it is true that they wanted to pay in installments, then yes, they couldn't afford to put money into the club.
But don't get fooled into thinking that Jeremy was thinking of us, i think he wanted all the money up front, his, "at this time," statement say's it all for me.

Jeremy loves installments when buying players.

If they cannot pay up front then we would no better off so I am happy its off for now. Never accept installments on a Capital Gain. If they did not cough up the rest of the money, JP would still have to pay the tax on the whole of the gain.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on September 04, 2015, 11:36:43 AM
Any news on this anyone? Gone completely quiet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on September 05, 2015, 08:53:13 AM
Anyone else think that the buy out consortium was headed up by Daniel Levy and it broke down because of the staged payment structure?  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 05, 2015, 10:05:47 AM
The events of the past week have made me alter my opinion on Jeremy Peace. The things he does will always divide fans, and to be honest he has me applauding him one week and moaning the next.
But this week he has gone up a long way in my opinion, he won't let our club be held to ransom or give way to cockney spivs.
I dread to think what may have happened if we had just been taken over and someone without his nous had faced the same situation with Spurs.

Let's hope he stay's as our chairman, best one we have ever had.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 05, 2015, 01:19:54 PM
I think people will have to get used to Peace for a little while longer, there was a window for the club to be sold and that window has closed. The Far East infatuation with the Premier League has not gone away but a Chinese consortium with money to burn won't be coming back anytime soon and maybe that was a bullet dodged given what has happened since to the Chinese stock market.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 05, 2015, 05:12:51 PM
Any news on this anyone? Gone completely quiet.

I think now the transfer window has closed, Peace may go back out and see what the market is like, probably with a view to selling up next Summer. And I think if a deal is to be done, then with the new TV deal, it'll be done then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on December 23, 2015, 03:13:25 PM
with talk of everton being taken over anyone know or heard what the situation is regarding ourselves, are we still up for sale or is jp staying.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on December 23, 2015, 03:14:32 PM
Dead as far as I know
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on December 23, 2015, 03:15:19 PM
with talk of everton being taken over anyone know or heard what the situation is regarding ourselves, are we still up for sale or is jp staying.   

I think the last we heard was the club is still up for sale but realistically we aren't looking for buyers until the end of the season because we don't want it affecting the football side of things
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on December 23, 2015, 03:20:26 PM
I think the last we heard was the club is still up for sale but realistically we aren't looking for buyers until the end of the season because we don't want it affecting the football side of things

Agreed. From what I recall it seemed it would be something we would revisit. It was clear last summer peace wants out so I doubt that will have changed. Plus with the new tv deal if we stay up I'd expect the rumors maybe to start again in the spring, summer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on December 23, 2015, 09:45:37 PM
I think the last we heard was the club is still up for sale but realistically we aren't looking for buyers until the end of the season because we don't want it affecting the football side of things

I would imagine we will be sounding out parties over the season, with tentative negotiations beginning after the January transfer window shuts. Peace will want to avoid a Summer of guessing again, and will want a deal virtually in place so that come the summer, it's just a matter of fine print and technicalities.

Having worked in businesses when taking over another, I can tell you even the smallest such deals require months of strategic and financial planning. It is highly unlikely someone will just appear and put the money on the table.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on December 23, 2015, 09:51:38 PM
I would imagine we will be sounding out parties over the season, with tentative negotiations beginning after the January transfer window shuts. Peace will want to avoid a Summer of guessing again, and will want a deal virtually in place so that come the summer, it's just a matter of fine print and technicalities.

Having worked in businesses when taking over another, I can tell you even the smallest such deals require months of strategic and financial planning. It is highly unlikely someone will just appear and put the money on the table.

Yes sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like we'll have our fingers in our ears until the Bournemouth game! I'd expect that as soon as the January business is done, JP will get back to seeking out potential buyers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on December 24, 2015, 12:39:42 AM
A billionaire from Jordan is in talks with two Prem clubs, had majority share in German club 1860. ITK members any news?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on December 24, 2015, 02:00:50 AM
A billionaire from Jordan is in talks with two Prem clubs, had majority share in German club 1860. ITK members any news?

There aren't many clubs in the Prem who are available I'd guess?

But given the FFFP situation, being brought out is hardly worth the bother. I'd far rather have a Brit who understands the situation own us.

I seriously fear a QPR/Cardiff situation if we're brought out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on December 24, 2015, 08:06:47 AM
It is highly unlikely someone will just appear and put the money on the table.

Taking this into account, if we are only entering serious negotiations within a two month period between seasons, is this ever going to happen for us?

I completely understand why we are not looking during the season so as to cause minimal disruption to the football side, but it seems to me that the window we are giving ourselves isn't giving us much of a chance to make a deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on December 24, 2015, 10:15:27 AM
Taking this into account, if we are only entering serious negotiations within a two month period between seasons, is this ever going to happen for us?

I completely understand why we are not looking during the season so as to cause minimal disruption to the football side, but it seems to me that the window we are giving ourselves isn't giving us much of a chance to make a deal.

There is nothing to stop Peace talking to interested buyers informally at any point of the year and no doubt approaches were made before he put the club up for sale during the summer. Equally interested parties are not going to commit until they know the club will still be in the Premier League next year.

Hence there is a window of opportunity which is from the point where we are safe from relegation and the start of the season when we are at the point of being at our least safe and when a takeover would be a potentially unwelcome distraction.
 
In terms of likely buyers the Chinese stock bubble bursting has had a major impact on the wealth of many rich individuals in the Far Eastern looking for a vanity project. I am not sure the moment passed when it didn't happen this year and it might be a while before we get serious interest again.

With regard Hasan Abdullah Ismaik who I think is the person an earlier poster was referring to, he is the de facto owner of TSV 1860 Munchen. He has made a fortune in construction in the Gulf. TSV is one of the murkier stories in German football and is something that should be borne in mind when someone bores on about how wonderful the Bundesliga is. TSV are currently languishing in the second tier and showing very few signs of life whether this is down to his ownership I am not entirely sure because frankly they were a basket case when he took them over and German football will not formally allow him to have executive control. All that said not a name that jumps off the page as being an obvious good thing. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 04, 2016, 10:39:58 AM
Sorry to everyone but can't find the selling stream.

With what is happening at Villa regards Lerner, and what happened at Birmingham with Young.
Are we still in the same frame of mind about the sale of our club?

I am a bit wary, as it would be a gamble.
Our club should not be a rich man's play thing, only to be thrown away when he gets bored.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on February 04, 2016, 10:45:22 AM
I agree, a few years ago I'd have liked to have seen Peace move on but he does seem to have loosened the purse strings a bit lately.  If he can keep us ticking over with that kind of spend (please, no comments about Pulis, this applies to any manager), then I'm happy with him in charge. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on February 05, 2016, 02:06:56 AM
There are several factors that have made the sale of any big trophy asset a lot harder recently. You only need to think of where potential buyers are and what forces they are exposed to. China has rapidly cooled. Russia has a myriad of problems. Oil has plummeted hurting the Gulf, Russia and many South American and African countries. Stock markets have been weak and bond markets have been very nervous (they are especially relevant for debt funded purchases).

I said last year that finding a buyer was tough. This year it is a lot tougher.

Also, people focus on the new Sky money and suggest that this should make things easier to find a buyer. However, by making all PL clubs a lot more valuable, it also shrinks the potential pool of buyers to a puddle. There are simply fewer buyers able to buy a £150m Albion today than a £50m Albion a few years ago.

I really do wish JP all the very best in his sales process but it won't be getting any easier.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aixelsyd on February 05, 2016, 03:49:17 AM
China has rapidly cooled.

it does not seem to be a healthy thing to be too wealthy in China at the moment.....  so you can probably rule out a Chinese interest this summer

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/01/amid-stock-market-panic-dozens-of-chinese-billionaires-are-mysteriously-disappearing.html (http://www.activistpost.com/2016/01/amid-stock-market-panic-dozens-of-chinese-billionaires-are-mysteriously-disappearing.html)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 05, 2016, 08:22:43 AM
There are several factors that have made the sale of any big trophy asset a lot harder recently. You only need to think of where potential buyers are and what forces they are exposed to. China has rapidly cooled. Russia has a myriad of problems. Oil has plummeted hurting the Gulf, Russia and many South American and African countries. Stock markets have been weak and bond markets have been very nervous (they are especially relevant for debt funded purchases).

I said last year that finding a buyer was tough. This year it is a lot tougher.

Also, people focus on the new Sky money and suggest that this should make things easier to find a buyer. However, by making all PL clubs a lot more valuable, it also shrinks the potential pool of buyers to a puddle. There are simply fewer buyers able to buy a £150m Albion today than a £50m Albion a few years ago.

I really do wish JP all the very best in his sales process but it won't be getting any easier.


Agree totally with that, although ironically Chinese clubs seem to be spending very large at the moment on foreign players!

JP is likely to be here for a while yet.  Maybe a co-investor coming in alongside him is more realistic.







Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sooty2 on February 25, 2016, 05:54:36 PM
Rumours starting up around twitter again anybody heard anything
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RICH ONE on February 25, 2016, 05:57:21 PM
Mark Bolton ex Central Sport /Sky Sports big  Albion fan tweeted something last weekend along the  lines of  club soon to be sold overseas.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sooty2 on February 25, 2016, 06:00:32 PM
Came from someone down London only what he has heard  bit not yet been placed but being disgusted Asian based
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on February 25, 2016, 06:17:33 PM
Expected to start hearing rumours like this since JP has bought a place in Guernsey with the sole aim of escaping Capital Gains Tax.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elminius on February 25, 2016, 06:27:50 PM
Expected to start hearing rumours like this since JP has bought a place in Guernsey with the sole aim of escaping Capital Gains Tax.

He will, but then why didnt he do that before the last offer when there was a stated preferred bidder? or even several years ago because he has stated for many years he would look at sensible offers
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 25, 2016, 09:09:06 PM
He will, but then why didnt he do that before the last offer when there was a stated preferred bidder? or even several years ago because he has stated for many years he would look at sensible offers

It's Jersey, not Guernsey

This year he's had a chance to do his tax planning.  Has to go non-resident before 5th April and then sell in the next tax year.  He needs to be non-resident for 5 tax years in order to avoid CGT on the gain.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on February 26, 2016, 04:12:15 PM
I have also heard the club is being sold and that they are trying to keep a lid on it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on February 26, 2016, 04:13:18 PM
I for one don't want to see us sold.

When has a takeover worked other than Man City and Chelsea?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on February 26, 2016, 07:17:33 PM
I for one don't want to see us sold.

When has a takeover worked other than Man City and Chelsea?

Leicester? Southampton?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 26, 2016, 07:58:55 PM
Leicester? Southampton?
Watford?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sing on our own on February 26, 2016, 09:35:22 PM
Bournemouth?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 26, 2016, 10:52:21 PM
Leicester? Southampton?

Villa  :D :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 27, 2016, 09:24:54 AM
I am really not sure that the club will be sold in the near future unless Peace dramatically lowers his asking price. There simply isn't the interest that there was 12 months ago and what interest there is in buying into Premier League Clubs (Palace and Everton) is coming from US based sports investors. They are hard nosed business men and they are not going to buy a club and throw lots of money at it without any real prospect of a return.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 27, 2016, 09:40:34 AM
I am really not sure that the club will be sold in the near future unless Peace dramatically lowers his asking price. There simply isn't the interest that there was 12 months ago and what interest there is in buying into Premier League Clubs (Palace and Everton) is coming from US based sports investors. They are hard nosed business men and they are not going to buy a club and throw lots of money at it without any real prospect of a return.

JP is moving to Jersey as a tax exile and his wealth is all tied up in the club.  He has nowhere near enough wealth to qualify to live in Jersey unless he is realising a gain by selling his shares.  The timing of his move to become resident in Jersey prior to 5 April is a very clear indicator that a deal has been struck and that a sale will be completed in the next tax year.

I have no idea who the buyer might be, but I'm certain there must be one, probably one of the other interested parties from last summer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 27, 2016, 10:47:29 AM
According to the press, TP has confirmed the proposed re-structure in recruitment. Doesn't that suggest that a sale is not close?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dudleylad on February 27, 2016, 11:46:37 AM
I suppose if he had agreed to sell he may well be putting in structures that the new owners want.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 27, 2016, 05:15:52 PM
Everton have just sold a 49.9% stake for £200m to an Iranian/British investor who has just sold his stake in Arsenal, apparently pipping a U.S. consortium.

I wonder if the US consortium might be who Peace has lined up a deal with....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on February 27, 2016, 05:19:30 PM
Everton have just sold a 49.9% stake for £200m to an Iranian/British investor who has just sold his stake in Arsenal, apparently pipping a U.S. consortium.

I wonder if the US consortium might be who Peace has lined up a deal with....

Would love a U.S. takeover rather than a MiddleEast based one.

Get some cheerleaders down the baggies.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: pauly414 on February 27, 2016, 09:02:34 PM
Would love a U.S. takeover rather than a MiddleEast based one.

Get some cheerleaders down the baggies.

One like the Vile had?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 27, 2016, 09:03:50 PM
One like the Vile had?
Or United, who've been trying to get them out for years?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 27, 2016, 10:18:59 PM
The sale of Everton has put the the face value of Premier League clubs through the roof. The deal values Everton at £400m and Arsenal at £1.2 billion (Moshiri sold his 16% stake in Arsenal to fund the purchase). In that context Peace's reported asking price of £150m is almost bargain bucket pricing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 27, 2016, 10:28:01 PM
The sale of Everton has put the the face value of Premier League clubs through the roof. The deal values Everton at £400m and Arsenal at £1.2 billion (Moshiri sold his 16% stake in Arsenal to fund the purchase). In that context Peace's reported asking price of £150m is almost bargain bucket pricing.

Correct.  Peace may be very relieved that the deal fell through last summer.  Might have cost him an extra £50m
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: enzo maresca on March 29, 2016, 07:36:47 PM
Anyone heard anything, rumours on other sites we were sold 2 weeks ago?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 29, 2016, 07:39:28 PM
Anyone heard anything, rumours on other sites we were sold 2 weeks ago?

where did that nugget come from?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Greenock Baggie on March 29, 2016, 08:59:45 PM

where did that nugget come from?
Brighton & Hove ????????
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on March 29, 2016, 09:02:47 PM
not sure if we're allowed to link to another forum but i can vouch it HAS been mentioned on another WBA forum.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 29, 2016, 09:13:42 PM
I've heard a Hong Kong trillionnaire. Not sure as to the validity of the claim.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 29, 2016, 09:27:19 PM

where did that nugget come from?

No way will be sold until after 5 April, otherwise JP would have to pay CGT on it.  His move to Jersey only makes sense if the sale takes place in the next tax year after he ceased to be resident in the UK.

It's possible of course that a deal has been struck to sell at the end of the season. Now that would make far more sense.  I also don't think that JP would have moved to Jersey unless a deal was close to 100% sealed.

Very likely to be one of the interested parties from last summer who did their major due diligence at that stage, so that only the audited figures since then are relevant.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 30, 2016, 09:34:21 AM
Really? A random poster on a forum has scooped every sports and business journalist on the planet, no rumours,no hint, nothing. I would be surprised if it turns out to be case however given that the report and accounts are due out shortly the club might say something about the prospects for a sale.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on March 30, 2016, 10:11:13 AM
Would make a lot of sense for us to be sold imminently/ summer latest - football, business-wise and for Peace personally, hence I can really see it.

Fresh blood, ideas, money in the summer would be perfect timing for us to push on as a club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on March 30, 2016, 10:18:37 AM
Would make a lot of sense for us to be sold imminently/ summer latest - football, business-wise and for Peace personally, hence I can really see it.

Fresh blood, ideas, money in the summer would be perfect timing for us to push on as a club.

Or go backwards like so many other failed takeover clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on March 30, 2016, 10:51:31 AM
That's always the risk but if you don't try , you'll never know. I think Peace has taken us as far as he can so for me it's a risk worth taking...............
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on March 30, 2016, 10:54:05 AM
Better the devil you know for me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 30, 2016, 11:23:16 AM
The dynamics are always the same with this. Peace will not go on forever and at some point will sell up. The new owners will certainly bring a fresh perspective to the club and new ideas. What that means exactly is anybodies guess. Personally I don't see any new owner going on an Mansour style spending spree even on a more modest scale, they might make investments in the club's infrastructure etc.. but not beyond what is likely to generate a return.

Any optimism surrounds the prospect of a new owner must be tempered by the near certain knowledge that whoever it is almost certainly will not be spending £100m plus on the club out of the kindness of their heart. Personally  I would prefer a hard nosed businessman trying to protect and grow an investment rather than some tycoon billionaire on an ego trip whose interest in and support for the vanity project would quickly fade unless we delivered rapid and unrealistic results.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 30, 2016, 11:49:23 AM
The dynamics are always the same with this. Peace will not go on forever and at some point will sell up. The new owners will certainly bring a fresh perspective to the club and new ideas. What that means exactly is anybodies guess. Personally I don't see any new owner going on an Mansour style spending spree even on a more modest scale, they might make investments in the club's infrastructure etc.. but not beyond what is likely to generate a return.

Any optimism surrounds the prospect of a new owner must be tempered by the near certain knowledge that whoever it is almost certainly will not be spending £100m plus on the club out of the kindness of their heart. Personally  I would prefer a hard nosed businessman trying to protect and grow an investment rather than some tycoon billionaire on an ego trip whose interest in and support for the vanity project would quickly fade unless we delivered rapid and unrealistic results.

I share your view, that new ownership by a business man would be my preferred option, & if, as looks likely at the moment, WBA are to be the only West Midlands club in the BPL, we would appear to be an attractive proposition.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on March 30, 2016, 11:58:52 AM
I share your view, that new ownership by a business man would be my preferred option, & if, as looks likely at the moment, WBA are to be the only West Midlands club in the BPL, we would appear to be an attractive proposition.

A hard nosed businessman like say Randy Lerner........?! I do agree you need someone who sees Albion as an investment so that they're also in it to win it (stay in prem and push on). I'd add, they'd also need to understand and arguably love football such as the West Ham owners for example because the unique business character and decision making of football has caught many an astute businessman out!! This is arguably Peace's greatest value to us. He not only understands and (seems to) love or at least enjoy football. Therefore, our shopping list for a new owner is:


I'd say Peace has all of the above except money to invest...............




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 30, 2016, 12:29:16 PM
A hard nosed businessman like say Randy Lerner........?! I do agree you need someone who sees Albion as an investment so that they're also in it to win it (stay in prem and push on). I'd add, they'd also need to understand and arguably love football such as the West Ham owners for example because the unique business character and decision making of football has caught many an astute businessman out!! This is arguably Peace's greatest value to us. He not only understands and (seems to) love or at least enjoy football. Therefore, our shopping list for a new owner is:
  • Loves football
    Understands and respects Albion's heritage/ history/ importance to local area
    Good businessman with enough money to 'invest' when needed
    Has a team around him/ her who are experienced in football (unlike Lerner's team over the years hence the sh!te decisions they made consistently)


I'd say Peace has all of the above except money to invest...............

It really depends on the motivation of the purchaser. It's difficult to see what made Randy Lerner buy AV, perhaps he realised he'd made a mistake fairly soon after making the purchase & then invested the minimum amount until it could be sold.
I'm not sure I agree with you that the owner needs to have an understanding of football, but if he doesn't the person whose running the club does.
It seems to me, that WBA is structured (with Mark Jenkins as CEO) so that it could be sold as a going concern.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on March 30, 2016, 12:29:50 PM
Doubt Tony can afford us anymore
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 30, 2016, 03:01:42 PM
A hard nosed businessman like say Randy Lerner........?! I do agree you need someone who sees Albion as an investment so that they're also in it to win it (stay in prem and push on). I'd add, they'd also need to understand and arguably love football such as the West Ham owners for example because the unique business character and decision making of football has caught many an astute businessman out!! This is arguably Peace's greatest value to us. He not only understands and (seems to) love or at least enjoy football. Therefore, our shopping list for a new owner is:
  • Loves football
    Understands and respects Albion's heritage/ history/ importance to local area
    Good businessman with enough money to 'invest' when needed
    Has a team around him/ her who are experienced in football (unlike Lerner's team over the years hence the sh!te decisions they made consistently)


I'd say Peace has all of the above except money to invest...............

Randy's money was largely inherited pretty much everything he owned came from his father and the Corporations he was involved in were almost impossible to screw up (MBNA credit cards & an NFL franchise). Lerner made some novice mistakes i.e. got caught up in the hype over extended in pursuit of success then tried to ween the club off the golden tit too quickly without the necessary strategy in place.      Lerner's Villa is half business,half vanity project and a total bloody failure.

It doesn't matter whether or not the owner really loves football, provided that they have a team that is competent and professional and they let them get on with the day to day running of the club. The "bad" owners are too many to mention and the good ones few and far between which is why many are fearful of life after Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on March 30, 2016, 04:06:56 PM
baggiejohn and standaman are right actually - Southampton are a good example of a rich owner who has no knowledge/ interest in football but has appointed good people to run the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cornishbaggie on April 02, 2016, 11:14:06 AM
A hard nosed businessman like say Randy Lerner........?! I do agree you need someone who sees Albion as an investment so that they're also in it to win it (stay in prem and push on). I'd add, they'd also need to understand and arguably love football such as the West Ham owners for example because the unique business character and decision making of football has caught many an astute businessman out!! This is arguably Peace's greatest value to us. He not only understands and (seems to) love or at least enjoy football. Therefore, our shopping list for a new owner is:
  • Loves football
    Understands and respects Albion's heritage/ history/ importance to local area
    Good businessman with enough money to 'invest' when needed
    Has a team around him/ her who are experienced in football (unlike Lerner's team over the years hence the sh!te decisions they made consistently)


I'd say Peace has all of the above except money to invest...............

JP doesn't need to cough up money to invest inb the club any longer. we are getting c£150m from Sky this year alone....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on April 02, 2016, 11:40:57 AM
JP doesn't need to cough up money to invest inb the club any longer. we are getting c£150m from Sky this year alone....

And so will all over Preimiership clubs.
I wasnt aware he ever did apart from share purchase, please tell
We will miss his skill and enterprise for sure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on April 04, 2016, 09:50:04 AM
According to reports in Italy Erick Thorir (Inter Milan president) has had a bid for us turned down. Article is on Newsnow.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on April 04, 2016, 09:56:08 AM
http://www.football-italia.net/82313/thohir-bids-wba?

Reports say Inter President Erick Thohir has had a proposal to take over West Bromwich Albion turned down.

Corriere dello Sport reports today that the Indonesian wants to own a Premier League club and has already presented an offer to the Baggies.

The first proposal was turned down but the report says Thohir wants to enter the league due to its lucrative TV rights deals and could return to make another bid.

Thohir is also continuing to look for new investors in the Nerazzurri and according to the outlet there are two Chinese groups interested.

Corriere writes that 20% of the club’s shares could be sold for a fee of between €70m and €100m.

This would mean former President Massimo Moratti would sell six per cent of his remaining shares and Thohir would give up 14 per cent of his, leaving them with 23.5% and 56% of the club’s shares respectively.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 04, 2016, 09:57:09 AM
was this the one before the season started i wonder
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on April 04, 2016, 12:18:54 PM
Surely that's quite advanced if he's actually made an offer?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on April 04, 2016, 12:20:48 PM
Surely that's quite advanced if he's actually made an offer?

Also rejected. To be fair we have no idea how reliable the source of the story is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 04, 2016, 12:24:02 PM
I have no idea if the Erick Thohir story is true and it may well be the bid that was turned down last year. However he would be the type of investor that I would imagine could be a potential new owner. Very rich net worth estimated $600m a background in the media and a history of owning sports clubs Inter,Dc Untied, and a basketball franchise.

If the reported sale of part of his interest is accurate it represents a pretty decent return on his investment of three years ago. How well or how actively he is running these club's I couldn't say but with the sheer volume of interests he must delegate the day to day running of them to the local management.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: fatboy_coach on April 04, 2016, 11:42:06 PM
I have no idea if the Erick Thohir story is true and it may well be the bid that was turned down last year. However he would be the type of investor that I would imagine could be a potential new owner. Very rich net worth estimated $600m a background in the media and a history of owning sports clubs Inter,Dc Untied, and a basketball franchise.

If the reported sale of part of his interest is accurate it represents a pretty decent return on his investment of three years ago. How well or how actively he is running these club's I couldn't say but with the sheer volume of interests he must delegate the day to day running of them to the local management.

Would that be leaving JP in as a CEO or getting his own team in I wonder?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 05, 2016, 12:38:07 AM
Would that be leaving JP in as a CEO or getting his own team in I wonder?

It's what he did at Inter but there is no guarantee that JP wants to stick around, but he has to delegate to local management. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 05, 2016, 04:06:05 PM
Would that be leaving JP in as a CEO or getting his own team in I wonder?

Hardly likely now that JP lives in Jersey!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on April 05, 2016, 09:27:55 PM
Interesting....

http://www.blackandredunited.com/rumors-speculation/2016/4/5/11371808/west-brom-erick-thohir-inter-milan-dc-united


Reports say Inter President Erick Thohir has had a proposal to take over West Bromwich Albion turned down.

Corriere dello Sport reports today that the Indonesian wants to own a Premier League club and has already presented an offer to the Baggies.

The first proposal was turned down but the report says Thohir wants to enter the league due to its lucrative TV rights deals and could return to make another bid.

Thohir is also continuing to look for new investors in the Nerazzurri and according to the outlet there are two Chinese groups interested.

Corriere writes that 20% of the club’s shares could be sold for a fee of between €70m and €100m.

This would mean former President Massimo Moratti would sell six per cent of his remaining shares and Thohir would give up 14 per cent of his, leaving them with 23.5% and 56% of the club’s shares respectively.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on April 05, 2016, 09:41:47 PM
If true, and that's a big if, this would worry me. Not the sort of takeover I would like
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on April 05, 2016, 11:27:52 PM
Interesting....

http://www.blackandredunited.com/rumors-speculation/2016/4/5/11371808/west-brom-erick-thohir-inter-milan-dc-united


Reports say Inter President Erick Thohir has had a proposal to take over West Bromwich Albion turned down.

Corriere dello Sport reports today that the Indonesian wants to own a Premier League club and has already presented an offer to the Baggies.

The first proposal was turned down but the report says Thohir wants to enter the league due to its lucrative TV rights deals and could return to make another bid.

Thohir is also continuing to look for new investors in the Nerazzurri and according to the outlet there are two Chinese groups interested.

Corriere writes that 20% of the club’s shares could be sold for a fee of between €70m and €100m.

This would mean former President Massimo Moratti would sell six per cent of his remaining shares and Thohir would give up 14 per cent of his, leaving them with 23.5% and 56% of the club’s shares respectively.
does this mean he's selling shares in Inter to raise capital to buy Albion, seems strange for someone worth $600m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 05, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
How many times is the same story going to be posted in this thread? 3 so far... I reckon we could squeeze another couple out of it!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on April 06, 2016, 10:53:36 AM
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/04/06/west-brom-rubbish-erick-thohir-claims/

Italian newspaper Corriere dello Sport reported this week that the Indonesian businessman had presented an offer to the Baggies which was turned down.

Thohir is believed to be interested in taking over a Premier League club due to the lucrative TV rights deal coming into place next season.

But the club have denied any knowledge of such an offer, and distanced themselves from the report.

Chairman Jeremy Peace, who owns 77 per cent of the club, invited offers from potential buyers in February last year.

He held talks soon after with a Chinese consortium about a possible take-over, but the £150 million deal fell through.

Now, though, it’s understood that Peace values the club at closer to £250million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on April 06, 2016, 10:55:08 AM
If it is true that Peace now values the club at closer to £250m we are stuck with him and he's stuck with us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on April 06, 2016, 10:56:55 AM
If it is true that Peace now values the club at closer to £250m we are stuck with him and he's stuck with us.

Which I'm fairly happy about. Better the devil you know than better the Carson Yeung you don't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 06, 2016, 11:08:03 AM
Which I'm fairly happy about. Better the devil you know than better the Carson Yeung you don't.

Very true BB, for every Roman Abramovitch there are 20 well meaning 'Randy Lerners' full of good intent.

I am always nervous about any takeover bids involving foreign investment to be honest. All it takes is a couple of chicken farmers and we are on a slippery slope......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 06, 2016, 11:09:17 AM
You cant knock how he runs his business. Solvent mid table, not many can say that. £250 million wheres that one come from, he obviously doesnt want to sell
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on April 06, 2016, 01:11:07 PM
£250 million-we have more chance of getting 30 million for Saido
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 06, 2016, 02:51:52 PM
We simply don't know what Peace thinks the club is worth it is merely an educated guess on part of the writer who assumes rightly that the club is worth more now than when it was initially put up for sale due to the increased TV revenues.

Based on the Everton sale a price of 2 times turnover is probably not unreasonable which with the new TV deal would give a price of around £250m. Given the relegation risk and the nature of the assets if I was a buyer I be would haggling very hard to get that down to £200m but £150m would be a steal. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on April 06, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
If you were an investor looking in, I guess you'd see we're a solid albeit unspectacular club with a strong, reliable (if a little whingey at times  ;)) fan base. Opportunity for steady growth would be decent (other large clubs in the area have faltered so we could poach more younger future fans from them) and there's lots of potential for us in Asia e.g. India. This is in addition to the guaranteed bounty from TV money and us having a decent ground, good training ground and excellent youth set up.

As Standaman says, if Everton are worth what's recently been paid we're worth around 200-250m - where did I put my credit card.............?

Whatever happens, I hope it's resolved within May/ June so we can make the necessary changes to the football side. As is normal these days, the squad will need investment and a mini-overhaul to stand still!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 06, 2016, 04:08:25 PM
If it is true that Peace now values the club at closer to £250m we are stuck with him and he's stuck with us.

Nonsense.  It's an asking price, no doubt expecting to be knocked down.  Values will have gone up since last year.  New TV deal, guaranteed Premier League status,  only West Midlands club in the Premier League with Villa going down....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on April 06, 2016, 04:20:03 PM
By far the best post i have seen on this subject was from Stoxman, who essentially outlined very clearly and logically how few potential buyers there are out there (despite the perception).
It is still a buyers market IMO, whilst JP may want £250M, I doubt he will get it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on April 06, 2016, 04:31:37 PM
Nonsense.  It's an asking price, no doubt expecting to be knocked down.  Values will have gone up since last year.  New TV deal, guaranteed Premier League status,  only West Midlands club in the Premier League with Villa going down....

I still struggle to see who or why we would be bought. 

FFP means we cannot be bought as a plaything. Even if we could, you don't just need someone with 100's of millions these days, you need a multi billionnaire.

So we are left with someone who wants to run us as business. How do you invest £250m and make money? When would an invester expect to turn profit. 5 years? 15? 20 years?

Even 20 years, which I wouldnt expect an invester would wait, you need to take £12.5m per season before you make money in the 21st year. 

The only way you can do that, is if we are a premiership club. To be a premiership club costs us a very high percentage of our revenue in wages, and you will need to spend on transfers. The club always tells us they arent sitting on milllions at the end of each year so is it there to take out? 

All this you also have to get right, becausse if we go down, thats the plans and our value taking a massive hit. This is a club that often flirts with relegation, can you take that gamble?

This is also without putting any additional money in and expecting the club to wash its face with its own income, keeping your outleight to the initial £250m.

Yes, you might be able to make more from commercial opportunities, but thats a small percentage. You might increase the fanbase, but 15 years in the top flight on an off now, a vast improvement on the previous 20 years and I havent seen any dramatic growth!

What am I missing?

Obviously you might just look for our value to increase and take some money sitting on an asset, but then it migth not be easy to sell on (as peace is finding out).


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on April 06, 2016, 04:59:20 PM
In 2013-2014 our pretax profit was 13 million,  up from 6 a year before.  Perhaps this year our pretax profit will be 20mil+ which would be enough for a tidy business model.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 06, 2016, 06:21:37 PM
I still struggle to see who or why we would be bought. 

FFP means we cannot be bought as a plaything. Even if we could, you don't just need someone with 100's of millions these days, you need a multi billionnaire.

So we are left with someone who wants to run us as business. How do you invest £250m and make money? When would an invester expect to turn profit. 5 years? 15? 20 years?

Even 20 years, which I wouldnt expect an invester would wait, you need to take £12.5m per season before you make money in the 21st year. 

The only way you can do that, is if we are a premiership club. To be a premiership club costs us a very high percentage of our revenue in wages, and you will need to spend on transfers. The club always tells us they arent sitting on milllions at the end of each year so is it there to take out? 

All this you also have to get right, becausse if we go down, thats the plans and our value taking a massive hit. This is a club that often flirts with relegation, can you take that gamble?

This is also without putting any additional money in and expecting the club to wash its face with its own income, keeping your outleight to the initial £250m.

Yes, you might be able to make more from commercial opportunities, but thats a small percentage. You might increase the fanbase, but 15 years in the top flight on an off now, a vast improvement on the previous 20 years and I havent seen any dramatic growth!

What am I missing?

Obviously you might just look for our value to increase and take some money sitting on an asset, but then it migth not be easy to sell on (as peace is finding out).

Ask more than £250m, take £150m, make £15m profit, so 10% return on capital invested.  Exploit overseas fan base.  Raise commercial revenues so turn £15m into £25m.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 06, 2016, 06:32:41 PM
I still struggle to see who or why we would be bought. 

FFP means we cannot be bought as a plaything. Even if we could, you don't just need someone with 100's of millions these days, you need a multi billionnaire.

So we are left with someone who wants to run us as business. How do you invest £250m and make money? When would an invester expect to turn profit. 5 years? 15? 20 years?

Even 20 years, which I wouldnt expect an invester would wait, you need to take £12.5m per season before you make money in the 21st year. 

The only way you can do that, is if we are a premiership club. To be a premiership club costs us a very high percentage of our revenue in wages, and you will need to spend on transfers. The club always tells us they arent sitting on milllions at the end of each year so is it there to take out? 

All this you also have to get right, becausse if we go down, thats the plans and our value taking a massive hit. This is a club that often flirts with relegation, can you take that gamble?

This is also without putting any additional money in and expecting the club to wash its face with its own income, keeping your outleight to the initial £250m.

Yes, you might be able to make more from commercial opportunities, but thats a small percentage. You might increase the fanbase, but 15 years in the top flight on an off now, a vast improvement on the previous 20 years and I havent seen any dramatic growth!

What am I missing?

Obviously you might just look for our value to increase and take some money sitting on an asset, but then it migth not be easy to sell on (as peace is finding out).


You are not missing anything which is why pension funds don't buy football clubs. They are ill liquid generally don't pay dividends and have a huge downside risk (relegation)

It is essentially a media futures contract. The football club is self sustaining so it doesn't cost anything to own and it owns an income stream  from a rapidly growing media contract and the asset value will rise in line with the increase in the value of the media contract.

There is scope for organic growth in other income most notably commercial expansion and to a degree  in the broader fan base but these are almost incidental. Equally growth in theses areas along with windfalls from the transfer market or success on the pitch are quickly consumed by the need to keep the team in the Premier League. 

The smart football investor is planning on buying the club using as much leverage as possible and selling it at a profit across a five to ten year timescale. This is not an investment for the faint hearted and probably shouldn't be contemplated without consulting a financial advisor or a psychiatrist.   ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on April 06, 2016, 09:50:28 PM
Don't know much about this Thorhir guy but he made DC United buy the son of Roberto Mancini who is dire. The MLS has a limit on foreign players so it was a doubly bad move. If he wants to interfere with transfers/the squad then he can jog on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on April 11, 2016, 09:29:05 PM
Well isn't it a small world.

The AC Milan/DC United team are buying Swansea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36007763

I think we're almost the last team not owned by a big time Charlie now? So..... We're next?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 15, 2016, 07:06:52 PM
With today's announcement of our connections with the dynamos from Delhi , does any one think our potential new owners will come from India
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on April 17, 2016, 06:03:25 AM
I think its an accurate call that the next owners could be Indian....but who? Tata are on the back foot now and not the most popular Indian enterprise at the moment.

After seeing what Lerner has done, hope the Yanks aren't interested in us.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on April 17, 2016, 06:33:51 AM
I think its an accurate call that the next owners could be Indian....but who? Tata are on the back foot now and not the most popular Indian enterprise at the moment.

After seeing what Lerner has done, hope the Yanks aren't interested in us.

There's a large Indian community close by of course so if there is any substance to a potential Indian takeover that could attract more from the community to the Hawthorns.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on April 17, 2016, 01:07:27 PM
After the Venky's and the Kumar brothers, no thank you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on May 18, 2016, 11:24:11 PM
Wonder if anything will happen on the takeover front this summer?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on May 18, 2016, 11:27:59 PM
Wonder if anything will happen on the takeover front this summer?

If there was anything in the pipeline I expect we would have heard by now to be honest
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 19, 2016, 12:02:09 AM
If there was anything in the pipeline I expect we would have heard by now to be honest

Something is definitely happening.  JP has not moved to Jersey just for the weather....a sale will happen before 5 April 2017. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on May 19, 2016, 01:18:55 AM
I think its an accurate call that the next owners could be Indian....but who? Tata are on the back foot now and not the most popular Indian enterprise at the moment.

After seeing what Lerner has done, hope the Yanks aren't interested in us.

I have heard from someone I trust that we had a very solid interest from one of India's richest dynasties.  They are a household name in India with interests in power, finance, retail etc.  I know them pretty well and there is no doubt they could have bought Albion.  I also know that they are as hard as nails in business and regard everything they do as purely profit generating.  Quite glad it came to nothing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 19, 2016, 06:34:50 AM
I think talk of £200 to £250m for us is just that. Talk.
villa (spits) has gone for £65m if the reports are to be believed.
I know we are in this wonderful league called the Premiership, for how much longer who knows, we play in the main an anti football system that grates with fans and press alike.
We have nowhere near the same size fan base as villa(spits again) or stadium so how we can band about figures of £250m is beyond me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on May 19, 2016, 09:04:56 AM
There's a few whispers elsewhere, that's why I asked the question.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 19, 2016, 09:44:40 AM
I have heard from someone I trust that we had a very solid interest from one of India's richest dynasties.  They are a household name in India with interests in power, finance, retail etc.  I know them pretty well and there is no doubt they could have bought Albion.  I also know that they are as hard as nails in business and regard everything they do as purely profit generating.  Quite glad it came to nothing.

Was their after last summer's abortive sale?

I think talk of £200 to £250m for us is just that. Talk.
villa (spits) has gone for £65m if the reports are to be believed.
I know we are in this wonderful league called the Premiership, for how much longer who knows, we play in the main an anti football system that grates with fans and press alike.
We have nowhere near the same size fan base as villa(spits again) or stadium so how we can band about figures of £250m is beyond me.

The £250m valuation is purely a guess based on the Everton sale. I based it on multiplying our projected turnover (£125m) for the coming season by two which is the same ratio that the Everton sale price implied. As I said at the time it was pure guess work but it demonstrated the impact of the new TV deal on the club's income and therefore it's sale price. Things like the size of the fan base should be reflected in the club's turnover e.g. higher gate receipts and commercial income therefore if you apply a fixed multiple of turnover it gives you a relatively  easy means to put a value on it.

It doesn't mean Peace would or could demand £250m but the equally the often quoted £150m (again a number which is just pure speculation) from last summer might be regarded as a little light but only based on the Everton sale.

 The sale price at Villa reflects a number of things
1. They are a Championship Club next years income will be down to £60m to £70m
2. They are loss making
3. There is a mountain of debt sitting on the balance sheet
4. Lerner is desperate for a sale and no longer wants to run nor invest in the club.

Given the above £65m is a more than fair price but if you consider that Villa have 4 attempts to be promoted while they have the parachute payments but after their turnover will be somewhere in the region of £25m to £30m and in all probability losing between £5m to £12m a year it might be very expensive.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on May 19, 2016, 10:33:47 AM
Didn't I hear pat Murphy say that they have no debt?
Iust admit I thought they are in debt,who knows the real truth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on May 19, 2016, 10:50:56 AM
Didn't I hear pat Murphy say that they have no debt?
Iust admit I thought they are in debt,who knows the real truth.

We have had no debt to speak of for 10years+.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cornishbaggie on May 19, 2016, 11:16:54 AM
In most cases valuations of business are based on profit.

So if a company makes £500k profit. Generally it's worth anything between 2-10 times profit. EBITDA to be precise, but let's not go there.

I don't expect football clubs to follow that rule...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 19, 2016, 11:32:28 AM
Was their after last summer's abortive sale?

The £250m valuation is purely a guess based on the Everton sale. I based it on multiplying our projected turnover (£125m) for the coming season by two which is the same ratio that the Everton sale price implied. As I said at the time it was pure guess work but it demonstrated the impact of the new TV deal on the club's income and therefore it's sale price. Things like the size of the fan base should be reflected in the club's turnover e.g. higher gate receipts and commercial income therefore if you apply a fixed multiple of turnover it gives you a relatively  easy means to put a value on it.

It doesn't mean Peace would or could demand £250m but the equally the often quoted £150m (again a number which is just pure speculation) from last summer might be regarded as a little light but only based on the Everton sale.

 The sale price at Villa reflects a number of things
1. They are a Championship Club next years income will be down to £60m to £70m
2. They are loss making
3. There is a mountain of debt sitting on the balance sheet
4. Lerner is desperate for a sale and no longer wants to run nor invest in the club.

Given the above £65m is a more than fair price but if you consider that Villa have 4 attempts to be promoted while they have the parachute payments but after their turnover will be somewhere in the region of £25m to £30m and in all probability losing between £5m to £12m a year it might be very expensive.

Serious question Stan!

Given the exposure of WBA to global communications, do you think our fanbase should be measured on attendance at matches or is it potentially bigger than that? I recognise that the gate receipt revenue is restricted to the size of our stadium, but scope for commercial income is global isn't it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 19, 2016, 11:52:58 AM
I think talk of £200 to £250m for us is just that. Talk.
villa (spits) has gone for £65m if the reports are to be believed.
I know we are in this wonderful league called the Premiership, for how much longer who knows, we play in the main an anti football system that grates with fans and press alike.
We have nowhere near the same size fan base as villa(spits again) or stadium so how we can band about figures of £250m is beyond me.

I acknowledge your spitting and seek to add my shitting.
Again and again.
Bombs away.
SOTV.
 8).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Doobuy on May 19, 2016, 03:26:07 PM
i think villa owed about £35m which means the actual cost of villa was around 100m as you are saddled with the debts when you purchase
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: jonasyoulegend on May 19, 2016, 05:20:11 PM
Straight from the horses mouth we are being sold to the Chinese very soon, subject to final processing etc.
Of course it could all fall through but that's from the very top, don't shoot the messenger !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on May 19, 2016, 05:41:04 PM
Straight from the horses mouth we are being sold to the Chinese very soon, subject to final processing etc.
Of course it could all fall through but that's from the very top, don't shoot the messenger !


And could I ask why someone at the very top would trust you or your friend with that information when you post it in a public form?

It JP wanted it to be public knowledge then he would release something to the press or on the offiicial website.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on May 19, 2016, 06:40:40 PM
On a more serious note, I thought that there were several interested parties interested in taking us over 12 months ago. What happened to them I wonder.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 19, 2016, 06:43:36 PM
Serious question Stan!

Given the exposure of WBA to global communications, do you think our fanbase should be measured on attendance at matches or is it potentially bigger than that? I recognise that the gate receipt revenue is restricted to the size of our stadium, but scope for commercial income is global isn't it?

The Premier League is a global brand we are part of that and our global foot print is based on it. However it only has a value is to the extent that we can monetarise it in the way that United have  through commercial and merchandising partnerships. How well we have done this to date reflected in our turnover but future potential is intangible and only exploitable through success on the pitch.

There is a huge amount of interest in Leicester City in Thailand because of their Thai ownership however the attempts to exploit this as an also ran in the Premier League was largely unsuccessful. There is now a near hysterical level of interest but it remains to be seen what sort of money that actually generates for the football club.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 19, 2016, 07:40:51 PM
The Premier League is a global brand we are part of that and our global foot print is based on it. However it only has a value is to the extent that we can monetarise it in the way that United have  through commercial and merchandising partnerships. How well we have done this to date reflected in our turnover but future potential is intangible and only exploitable through success on the pitch.

There is a huge amount of interest in Leicester City in Thailand because of their Thai ownership however the attempts to exploit this as an also ran in the Premier League was largely unsuccessful. There is now a near hysterical level of interest but it remains to be seen what sort of money that actually generates for the football club.

I agree that we're unlikely to get a substantial improvement in sales of merchandise, but I was thinking more in terms of sponsorship. Global exposure would make us more attractive to sponsors wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on May 19, 2016, 07:53:51 PM
I agree that we're unlikely to get a substantial improvement in sales of merchandise, but I was thinking more in terms of sponsorship. Global exposure would make us more attractive to sponsors wouldn't it?

We've already been sponsored by two chinese betting firms, haven't we?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on May 19, 2016, 08:36:49 PM
On a more serious note, I thought that there were several interested parties interested in taking us over 12 months ago. What happened to them I wonder.
Buying something like a football club is extremely difficult and long-winded. I imagine as more details were revealed to possible buyers, they pulled out due to various reasons etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 19, 2016, 08:51:00 PM
We've already been sponsored by two chinese betting firms, haven't we?

Yes we have, I'm just suggesting that there has to be a relationship between the amount of global exposure to the value of the sponsorship. As I understand it, the deal we have with the 2016/17/18 sponsors is more valuable than the current one.
Also, our "fan base" is not restricted to "bums on seats", as a global brand, the potential is far larger.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on May 20, 2016, 07:13:37 PM
In my opinion Pulis was brought to the club for one reason,and one reason only, to keep us in the Premiership until we are sold.
I would think or like to think that a deal isn't far away, maybe the same consortium that were interested last time. I don't think we will be sold for anything like £200m, but a seller always puts the price high and then bargains.
We have no debts which is a plus, and we are in the worlds best league, thanks to Pulis.
Love him or hate him he has done the job he was brought in to do.
Mind you if we are bought with someone who has money i hope we can get someone who will get us back to playing the stuff we are renowned for.

I only hope this isn't one of Jeremy's distraction in the transfer window yet again.
He has done it twice already.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on May 20, 2016, 07:31:54 PM
Is Peace even still looking for investment? Unless I've missed it I've not seen anything concrete in the media about it since last summer?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on May 20, 2016, 07:41:10 PM
Is Peace even still looking for investment? Unless I've missed it I've not seen anything concrete in the media about it since last summer?

Was he ever not looking for investment? To my knowledge he's never said we aren't seeking investment or willing to sell up but for whatever reason we just don't seem to be an attractive proposition for anyone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on May 20, 2016, 08:02:46 PM
Was he ever not looking for investment? To my knowledge he's never said we aren't seeking investment or willing to sell up but for whatever reason we just don't seem to be an attractive proposition for anyone.

With Pulis in charge Im afraid to say we are about as attractive as a soiled bus seat.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on May 20, 2016, 08:07:58 PM
With Pulis in charge Im afraid to say we are about as attractive as a soiled bus seat.

How does that explain the previous few years? To be honest this is the kind of post I find absolutely ridiculous, its nonsense to suggest that the manager has any bearing over any potential takeover move just another excuse to have a pop at him and quite frankly I find it a little pathetic whether its a serious post or not. Every topic of conversation no matter what it is about gets hijacked by people wanting to have a moan about Pulis and its beginning to get very tiresome reading the same rubbish time after time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on May 20, 2016, 08:43:01 PM
How does that explain the previous few years? To be honest this is the kind of post I find absolutely ridiculous, its nonsense to suggest that the manager has any bearing over any potential takeover move just another excuse to have a pop at him and quite frankly I find it a little pathetic whether its a serious post or not. Every topic of conversation no matter what it is about gets hijacked by people wanting to have a moan about Pulis and its beginning to get very tiresome reading the same rubbish time after time.

Well said BH
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on May 20, 2016, 10:42:45 PM
Well said BH
Ditto.He has done the job he is renowned for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on May 20, 2016, 10:58:34 PM
How does that explain the previous few years? To be honest this is the kind of post I find absolutely ridiculous, its nonsense to suggest that the manager has any bearing over any potential takeover move just another excuse to have a pop at him and quite frankly I find it a little pathetic whether its a serious post or not. Every topic of conversation no matter what it is about gets hijacked by people wanting to have a moan about Pulis and its beginning to get very tiresome reading the same rubbish time after time.
Nice one BH, and if it is possible mods can we stop the anti-Pulis brigade hijacking every single thread?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on May 20, 2016, 10:59:32 PM
How does that explain the previous few years? To be honest this is the kind of post I find absolutely ridiculous, its nonsense to suggest that the manager has any bearing over any potential takeover move just another excuse to have a pop at him and quite frankly I find it a little pathetic whether its a serious post or not. Every topic of conversation no matter what it is about gets hijacked by people wanting to have a moan about Pulis and its beginning to get very tiresome reading the same rubbish time after time.

Alright, alright fair point. Can't help though. ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 21, 2016, 12:05:31 AM
If you have just bought the club for £100m and you don't like Pulis £2m and he's gone. Don't think it will really put a buyer off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mooncat on May 21, 2016, 08:38:50 AM
And if buyers look at the way the fans are bickering and moaning, surely that would make us a better prospect for a new owner - after all, they'll see it as the perfect platform to be accepted instantly with promises of a new manager, investment etc.
That's one of the reasons the Villa fans are so happy - after the season they've had anyone taking over was going to be welcomed as it brings the feeling that things will change. Whether that comes true or not is anyone's guess, but at least now they have hope (and yes I know it's the hope that kills you).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on May 21, 2016, 09:32:48 AM
Was he ever not looking for investment? To my knowledge he's never said we aren't seeking investment or willing to sell up but for whatever reason we just don't seem to be an attractive proposition for anyone.

We aren't going to be attractive for £200m, a London club would go for less. Peace is asking a ridiculous price and makes me wonder how serious about selling.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 21, 2016, 09:37:28 AM
As a matter of interest do we know how much JP has actually put into the club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on May 21, 2016, 09:41:42 AM
We aren't going to be attractive for £200m, a London club would go for less. Peace is asking a ridiculous price and makes me wonder how serious about selling.

Has anyone from the club confirmed that the asking price would be £200m or are we just going by a figure the press could have pulled out of thin air?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 21, 2016, 10:02:57 AM
There is no evidence whatsoever that says Peace has asked for £200m or any other specific price. The £200m is what the implied price that you get if you look at what Everton went for and applied a relative valuation to WBA. Equally a majority stake was sold in Swansea which valued the club at £100m and it could be argued we are worth something similar although it should be noted they don't actually own the Liberty stadium. All clubs are different and putting a value on an asset as unique as a football club is not an exact science.

We simply don't know the asking price and we won't know until the club is sold. At some point Peace will sell up he won't go forever but unlike Lerner he isn't desperate to sell either.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 21, 2016, 11:39:54 AM
There is no evidence whatsoever that says Peace has asked for £200m or any other specific price. The £200m is what the implied price that you get if you look at what Everton went for and applied a relative valuation to WBA. Equally a majority stake was sold in Swansea which valued the club at £100m and it could be argued we are worth something similar although it should be noted they don't actually own the Liberty stadium. All clubs are different and putting a value on an asset as unique as a football club is not an exact science.

We simply don't know the asking price and we won't know until the club is sold. At some point Peace will sell up he won't go forever but unlike Lerner he isn't desperate to sell either.
will become desperate if our end of year form continues into new season as the football rights are the only valuable asset we have to be looking  for north of 50 million on asking price
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on May 21, 2016, 08:56:22 PM
We simply don't know what Peace thinks the club is worth it is merely an educated guess on part of the writer who assumes rightly that the club is worth more now than when it was initially put up for sale due to the increased TV revenues.

Based on the Everton sale a price of 2 times turnover is probably not unreasonable which with the new TV deal would give a price of around £250m. Given the relegation risk and the nature of the assets if I was a buyer I be would haggling very hard to get that down to £200m but £150m would be a steal.

I had a quick look at valuing Albion based on what we know.  As I've said before, I'm not involved in this deal but have bought and brokered a few that have similarities and I used the same model I have previously used. Someone earlier mentioned a multiple of EBITDA.  Personally I wouldn't use that as earnings are far too easy to (legitimately) manipulate although I accept that it's much better than the net profit figure that the E&S etc quote.  I much prefer to use cash flow as it is much harder to dispute.  You either have cash or not.  This is especially important when looking at the massive impact of player transfers.  I believe one needs to take out all player profit and loss and then add in a normalised net player transfer loss per annum.   The methodology I used was:

Apply something called Discounted Cash Flow (DCF).  This is basically a way of turning a stream of future cash flows (such as future TV rights, gate receipts etc) into a value today.  For those who haven't come across the concept you can think about what value you would place on a fiver each year promised by your mate.  A fiver next year is worth less than a fiver today due to inflation and it is worth even less if there is a risk he won't pay.  Albion have an uncertain stream of cash flow as you go out further into the future.  Next year they have revenues guaranteed by the PL and parachute payments after that.  There is therefore a lot of short term certainty (although we aren't certain about net cash flows as wage increases etc are unknowns) but long term rapidly gets uncertain.  The discount rate that is applied to these cash flows is a function of the cost of financing and/or the internal rate of return( IRR)demanded by an investor.  The more leverage needed and the higher the perceived risk,  the more the cash flows are discounted.   We can get a pretty good idea of the discount rates from the cost of "factoring" that almost every PL club uses when selling a player on deferred payment terms.  The costs of these are in the 6-9% range and that gives us a fair indication of the market price of finance.

The DCF part is the crucial part of the valuation.  It's got nothing to do with whether we play good or bad football.  It's just the present value of a stream of cash and allows Albion to be compared to other cash generating assets such as an annual rock concert, a pay and display car park or block of student flats. 

I have read the comparison made by others with the value of Everton but I personally believe that the "half as much=half as valuable" argument is wrong from a DCF perspective for two crucial and linked reasons.  If I were building a DCF for Everton I would happily assume PL cash flow for 10+ years, much longer than for Albion.  I know that other Everton sized clubs have lost PL status but in general,  I believe there is much more (and more than twice) the cash flow predictability than for Albion.  I would also suggest that the risk is great and therefore the IRR or finance cost would need to be much higher (and therefore the discount rate greater).  To give an analogy,  is a tenner a year twice as valuable as a fiver a year?  What if the tenner was promised by a very wealthy and trustworthy friend and the fiver was promised by someone far less reliable? The former is probably 3 or 4 times more valuable, not twice as valuable.

Beyond the very short term  (I modelled 3-5 years),  PL survival is so unpredictable that I simply added a stub value of £20m that could be thought of as the option value attached to a Championship club.  We know that a club's value jumps when it enters the PL and therefore a Championship club with a chance of returning to the PL must have an option value even if its assets and operating cash flows aren't worth much more.

The only thing to add to the equation of DCF+Stub value is any trophy asset premium or hidden asset value. Someone may be happy to pay over the top for the rights to own something cool.  I have assumed in my model that this isn't the case for Albion and that there is no realisable value from redeveloping the Hawthorns in the way that Chelsea, Fulham etc could.

Using this model and publicly available data I struggled to get anywhere near £200m.  To do so required one or more of the following:

-PL cash flows to be modelled way out beyond 5 years
-Unrealistic cost control, especially around player wages. Basically one would have to assume that the new TV deal all goes into the club's coffers rather than players and agents.
-A very low cost of funds or very low IRR expectations.
-A high stub value in the Championship
-A trophy asset premium
-A spell in the Champions League

There's clearly a lot of detail that I don't know about this deal which could effect my model but based on what I can see,  the value of £120-150m is (in my view) much closer to the mark than the £200-250m that is now being mentioned.  Let's see...

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on May 21, 2016, 09:37:15 PM
I had a quick look at valuing Albion based on what we know.  As I've said before, I'm not involved in this deal but have bought and brokered a few that have similarities and I used the same model I have previously used. Someone earlier mentioned a multiple of EBITDA.  Personally I wouldn't use that as earnings are far too easy to (legitimately) manipulate although I accept that it's much better than the net profit figure that the E&S etc quote.  I much prefer to use cash flow as it is much harder to dispute.  You either have cash or not.  This is especially important when looking at the massive impact of player transfers.  I believe one needs to take out all player profit and loss and then add in a normalised net player transfer loss per annum.   The methodology I used was:

Apply something called Discounted Cash Flow (DCF).  This is basically a way of turning a stream of future cash flows (such as future TV rights, gate receipts etc) into a value today.  For those who haven't come across the concept you can think about what value you would place on a fiver each year promised by your mate.  A fiver next year is worth less than a fiver today due to inflation and it is worth even less if there is a risk he won't pay.  Albion have an uncertain stream of cash flow as you go out further into the future.  Next year they have revenues guaranteed by the PL and parachute payments after that.  There is therefore a lot of short term certainty (although we aren't certain about net cash flows as wage increases etc are unknowns) but long term rapidly gets uncertain.  The discount rate that is applied to these cash flows is a function of the cost of financing and/or the internal rate of return( IRR)demanded by an investor.  The more leverage needed and the higher the perceived risk,  the more the cash flows are discounted.   We can get a pretty good idea of the discount rates from the cost of "factoring" that almost every PL club uses when selling a player on deferred payment terms.  The costs of these are in the 6-9% range and that gives us a fair indication of the market price of finance.

The DCF part is the crucial part of the valuation.  It's got nothing to do with whether we play good or bad football.  It's just the present value of a stream of cash and allows Albion to be compared to other cash generating assets such as an annual rock concert, a pay and display car park or block of student flats. 

I have read the comparison made by others with the value of Everton but I personally believe that the "half as much=half as valuable" argument is wrong from a DCF perspective for two crucial and linked reasons.  If I were building a DCF for Everton I would happily assume PL cash flow for 10+ years, much longer than for Albion.  I know that other Everton sized clubs have lost PL status but in general,  I believe there is much more (and more than twice) the cash flow predictability than for Albion.  I would also suggest that the risk is great and therefore the IRR or finance cost would need to be much higher (and therefore the discount rate greater).  To give an analogy,  is a tenner a year twice as valuable as a fiver a year?  What if the tenner was promised by a very wealthy and trustworthy friend and the fiver was promised by someone far less reliable? The former is probably 3 or 4 times more valuable, not twice as valuable.

Beyond the very short term  (I modelled 3-5 years),  PL survival is so unpredictable that I simply added a stub value of £20m that could be thought of as the option value attached to a Championship club.  We know that a club's value jumps when it enters the PL and therefore a Championship club with a chance of returning to the PL must have an option value even if its assets and operating cash flows aren't worth much more.

The only thing to add to the equation of DCF+Stub value is any trophy asset premium or hidden asset value. Someone may be happy to pay over the top for the rights to own something cool.  I have assumed in my model that this isn't the case for Albion and that there is no realisable value from redeveloping the Hawthorns in the way that Chelsea, Fulham etc could.

Using this model and publicly available data I struggled to get anywhere near £200m.  To do so required one or more of the following:

-PL cash flows to be modelled way out beyond 5 years
-Unrealistic cost control, especially around player wages. Basically one would have to assume that the new TV deal all goes into the club's coffers rather than players and agents.
-A very low cost of funds or very low IRR expectations.
-A high stub value in the Championship
-A trophy asset premium
-A spell in the Champions League

There's clearly a lot of detail that I don't know about this deal which could effect my model but based on what I can see,  the value of £120-150m is (in my view) much closer to the mark than the £200-250m that is now being mentioned.  Let's see...
very interesting and insightful view of how a club may be valued. over my head though, can I use Tesco clubcard?. :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 22, 2016, 09:05:26 AM
I had a quick look at valuing Albion based on what we know.  As I've said before, I'm not involved in this deal but have bought and brokered a few that have similarities and I used the same model I have previously used. Someone earlier mentioned a multiple of EBITDA.  Personally I wouldn't use that as earnings are far too easy to (legitimately) manipulate although I accept that it's much better than the net profit figure that the E&S etc quote.  I much prefer to use cash flow as it is much harder to dispute.  You either have cash or not.  This is especially important when looking at the massive impact of player transfers.  I believe one needs to take out all player profit and loss and then add in a normalised net player transfer loss per annum.   The methodology I used was:

Apply something called Discounted Cash Flow (DCF).  This is basically a way of turning a stream of future cash flows (such as future TV rights, gate receipts etc) into a value today.  For those who haven't come across the concept you can think about what value you would place on a fiver each year promised by your mate.  A fiver next year is worth less than a fiver today due to inflation and it is worth even less if there is a risk he won't pay.  Albion have an uncertain stream of cash flow as you go out further into the future.  Next year they have revenues guaranteed by the PL and parachute payments after that.  There is therefore a lot of short term certainty (although we aren't certain about net cash flows as wage increases etc are unknowns) but long term rapidly gets uncertain.  The discount rate that is applied to these cash flows is a function of the cost of financing and/or the internal rate of return( IRR)demanded by an investor.  The more leverage needed and the higher the perceived risk,  the more the cash flows are discounted.   We can get a pretty good idea of the discount rates from the cost of "factoring" that almost every PL club uses when selling a player on deferred payment terms.  The costs of these are in the 6-9% range and that gives us a fair indication of the market price of finance.

The DCF part is the crucial part of the valuation.  It's got nothing to do with whether we play good or bad football.  It's just the present value of a stream of cash and allows Albion to be compared to other cash generating assets such as an annual rock concert, a pay and display car park or block of student flats. 

I have read the comparison made by others with the value of Everton but I personally believe that the "half as much=half as valuable" argument is wrong from a DCF perspective for two crucial and linked reasons.  If I were building a DCF for Everton I would happily assume PL cash flow for 10+ years, much longer than for Albion.  I know that other Everton sized clubs have lost PL status but in general,  I believe there is much more (and more than twice) the cash flow predictability than for Albion.  I would also suggest that the risk is great and therefore the IRR or finance cost would need to be much higher (and therefore the discount rate greater).  To give an analogy,  is a tenner a year twice as valuable as a fiver a year?  What if the tenner was promised by a very wealthy and trustworthy friend and the fiver was promised by someone far less reliable? The former is probably 3 or 4 times more valuable, not twice as valuable.

Beyond the very short term  (I modelled 3-5 years),  PL survival is so unpredictable that I simply added a stub value of £20m that could be thought of as the option value attached to a Championship club.  We know that a club's value jumps when it enters the PL and therefore a Championship club with a chance of returning to the PL must have an option value even if its assets and operating cash flows aren't worth much more.

The only thing to add to the equation of DCF+Stub value is any trophy asset premium or hidden asset value. Someone may be happy to pay over the top for the rights to own something cool.  I have assumed in my model that this isn't the case for Albion and that there is no realisable value from redeveloping the Hawthorns in the way that Chelsea, Fulham etc could.

Using this model and publicly available data I struggled to get anywhere near £200m.  To do so required one or more of the following:

-PL cash flows to be modelled way out beyond 5 years
-Unrealistic cost control, especially around player wages. Basically one would have to assume that the new TV deal all goes into the club's coffers rather than players and agents.
-A very low cost of funds or very low IRR expectations.
-A high stub value in the Championship
-A trophy asset premium
-A spell in the Champions League

There's clearly a lot of detail that I don't know about this deal which could effect my model but based on what I can see,  the value of £120-150m is (in my view) much closer to the mark than the £200-250m that is now being mentioned.  Let's see...

In your opinion, what would motivate a potential buyer of WBA?

For example, AVFC right now is a train crash, & there are plenty of development opportunities for the new buyer to improve the value of the FC, as well as promoting his own products and services.

I don't see too many development opportunities at WBAFC, on the other hand there is clearly scope for promoting products & services, & if the FC continues to use the current model, a regular income for the buyer.
Based on published figures, it would be possible to take an income of circa £2 million  a year out of the FC, without having a negative impact, so based on your estimated value, a potential buyer would be in profit within 6-8 years.
Would that be attractive to potential buyers?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on May 23, 2016, 05:25:54 PM
A couple more thought to be ITK'ers have said its close now, does anyone know anything re the takeover on here? Apparently chinese owners?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 23, 2016, 05:47:41 PM
More likely to be Chinese whispers than a Chinese takeover very unlikely information on a takeover would leak. Nobody who hasn't signed a confidentiality agreement in their own blood would be allowed anywhere near it a huge pinch of salt required.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 23, 2016, 05:49:29 PM
The only ITK I trust is baggie79, not come across another other ITK worth their salt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on May 23, 2016, 06:07:41 PM
Tom ross has tweeted now saying deal is moving forward. Very strange
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smosher34 on May 23, 2016, 06:18:27 PM
I wouldn't belive a lot tom ross says either .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 23, 2016, 06:21:06 PM
Tom ross has tweeted now saying deal is moving forward. Very strange
Seriously probably looked at the ITK tweets and decided to run with it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 23, 2016, 06:31:33 PM
There are no ITK tweets or reports I've had a search!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on May 23, 2016, 07:30:55 PM
There are no ITK tweets or reports I've had a search!

There is one from Tom Ross
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on May 23, 2016, 09:22:35 PM
There is one from Tom Ross
Tom Ross admitted he was just following speculation though further into the tweet. It's just like any fan saying it, Tom Ross didn't have anything to go on and was merely passing on small talk.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 23, 2016, 09:36:32 PM
That is shoddy journalism from Tom Ross
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on May 24, 2016, 08:55:02 AM
It can't even be described as journalism  ;D

I think it originated from another Albion site yesterday from someone who has been regarded as ITK before but quite frankly his info has been somewhat hit and miss from what I've seen the last few years. I think I saw someone else say something a day or two before but I have no idea what their ITK record is. I still believe that like last year we won't hear anything concrete until a deal is pretty close to being done due to all the confidentiality clauses that will be involved.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: superkev on May 24, 2016, 09:45:19 AM
Did you know the Chinese buyer of Aston Villa is the same person who wanted to buy the Albion but back then could not come up with the £££££ now he has bought Villa on the cheap and may well be loading the club with the debt to buy.
 Jeremy for our benefit would not allow him to do that with the Albion so he only wants a paid for up front deal, god bless him!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on May 24, 2016, 10:05:24 AM
Did you know the Chinese buyer of Aston Villa is the same person who wanted to buy the Albion but back then could not come up with the £££££ now he has bought Villa on the cheap and may well be loading the club with the debt to buy.
 Jeremy for our benefit would not allow him to do that with the Albion so he only wants a paid for up front deal, god bless him!

Do we know its the same buyers for certain or are we just guessing?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 24, 2016, 10:11:03 AM
Did you know the Chinese buyer of Aston Villa is the same person who wanted to buy the Albion but back then could not come up with the £££££ now he has bought Villa on the cheap and may well be loading the club with the debt to buy.
 Jeremy for our benefit would not allow him to do that with the Albion so he only wants a paid for up front deal, god bless him!

I don't think there is anyway of substantiating that but it's a nice thought couldn't afford the Baggies so bought the Villa instead :o

Going forward I don't think we will hear anything about a sale until it happens, we won't have last summer's for sale for a limited time only. It serves no purpose and just puts a cloud of uncertainty around the club. I think the lesson from last time is that until the deal is done there is no point in trying to second guess what new owners might want to do just carry on running the club as if a sale isn't going to happen and the buyer will either buy that or they won't.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: superkev on May 24, 2016, 03:54:43 PM
100% it is the same person who has now "bought" Villa who previously tried to buy us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sooty2 on June 05, 2016, 07:10:54 PM
Eric thohir to sell 40% of his shares  in inter Milan for £264 million where will he invest next !!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on June 05, 2016, 07:12:44 PM
Lets hope not here
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 06, 2016, 11:24:11 AM
Thought it was the Italian bloke who was interested in investing in Prem team massimo his second name eludes me the correct me if I'm wrong majority share holder in inter until Chinese take over
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sooty2 on June 06, 2016, 05:31:08 PM
No it was Eric the Italian as sold out Eric as kept 30% but sold his other 40% so he is now not majority shareholder so he can purchase another club now if he wishes
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 18, 2016, 09:47:19 PM
Indy kila or something has been tweeting tonight that a Chinese takeover is close. Maybe bull. There's no actual link to any story anywhere. But him and tom ross now. Hopefully something may be happening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 18, 2016, 09:57:22 PM
Indy kila or something has been tweeting tonight that a Chinese takeover is close. Maybe bull. There's no actual link to any story anywhere. But him and tom ross now. Hopefully something may be happening.

He is the BIGGEST liar on Twitter and literally churns out hundreds of nonsense stories on a weekly basis, most of which are complete rubbish. Even writing about him is a waste of time as he doesn't deserve the air space, he is infamously bad.

Tom Ross was merely saying there were twitter rumours and admitted he knew nothing, so really there is no story here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on June 18, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Indy kila or something has been tweeting tonight that a Chinese takeover is close. Maybe bull. There's no actual link to any story anywhere. But him and tom ross now. Hopefully something may be happening.

That bloke is famously a KFC worker who shoots a thousand arrows into the sky, one hits and then he retweets it endlessly. If you put Indy Kaila liar into tweet you get a good parody account.

Fair play though, for a KFC worker he has alot of followers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 19, 2016, 06:50:02 AM
Daily mail reporting it as well now!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 19, 2016, 08:08:21 AM
Daily mail reporting it as well now!
just read the report, no smoke without fire maybe something is happening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 19, 2016, 08:54:08 AM
Ask yourself of all the journalists in all the world that would know about a takeover or anything significant about anything would it be a random click bait merchant working for the Mail on Line? Answer probably not he's taken the rumour off twitter the Berahino story and a few other known facts and spun a few hundred words and pictures.

The whole Berahino is an asset thing is a nonsense. If we sell him the cash is an asset if we use the cash to buy players they become an asset it makes no difference to the value of the club.

As ever the club regardless of takeover talks can trade normally it has to. The only issue that might be difficult to resolve with a takeover in the offing would be a significant appointment e.g. Head Coach or Director of  Football but even then a deal would have had to got the agreed in principal stage.

In the fevered world of click bait journalism there is quite often smoke without fire in fact there is often smoke with out any combustible materials. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on June 19, 2016, 10:53:15 AM
It's common knowledge that we will be sold and we most will.be in talks with potential buyers. The fact that Peace now resides in Jersey to avoid capital gains says it all. I'd say it's more likely we will be sold fairly soon than not based on the evidence.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on June 19, 2016, 11:39:32 AM
Sorry it's the Daily Mail but it's today's date
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3648627/West-Brom-striker-Saido-Berahino-s-future-hold-amid-Stoke-talks-Chinese-takeover-ongoing-Hawthorns.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 20, 2016, 09:26:57 AM
Ask yourself of all the journalists in all the world that would know about a takeover or anything significant about anything would it be a random click bait merchant working for the Mail on Line? Answer probably not he's taken the rumour off twitter the Berahino story and a few other known facts and spun a few hundred words and pictures.

The whole Berahino is an asset thing is a nonsense. If we sell him the cash is an asset if we use the cash to buy players they become an asset it makes no difference to the value of the club.

As ever the club regardless of takeover talks can trade normally it has to. The only issue that might be difficult to resolve with a takeover in the offing would be a significant appointment e.g. Head Coach or Director of  Football but even then a deal would have had to got the agreed in principal stage.

In the fevered world of click bait journalism there is quite often smoke without fire in fact there is often smoke with out any combustible materials.

Smoke On The Water?  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 20, 2016, 10:18:28 AM
Smoke On The Water?  :D

We are not at Montreux the casino is almost certainly not on fire although Greggs might have singed a batch of pasties. 8)

PS Very old Rockers reference younger readers don't need to worry about it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on June 20, 2016, 10:52:16 AM
We are not at Montreux the casino is almost certainly not on fire although Greggs might have singed a batch of pasties. 8)

PS Very old Rockers reference younger readers don't need to worry about it

Quite apt considering the number of stupids with a flare gun this week!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 20, 2016, 02:40:49 PM
I noticed last night the chap from the Express & Star had followed up on the latest rumours and tweeted something along the lines of no takeover being imminent but Peace is still sounding out potential buyers as you would expect. To be fair after what happened last year I don't think the club would make any official comment until a deal is virtually agreed if not even done pending ratification from the authorities.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 20, 2016, 04:33:20 PM
I noticed last night the chap from the Express & Star had followed up on the latest rumours and tweeted something along the lines of no takeover being imminent but Peace is still sounding out potential buyers as you would expect. To be fair after what happened last year I don't think the club would make any official comment until a deal is virtually agreed if not even done pending ratification from the authorities.

Quite naive on his part really to bother commenting on it. His sources will be within the club and like you say the club aren't going to confirm anything is going on behind the scenes and it's always going to be difficult to fish out any information close to the potential buyers. I have been informed by my usually reliable friend it could be done within 2-3 weeks it's not imminent but the checks are now on going and it is getting closer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 20, 2016, 10:54:32 PM
Daily mail saying we want roger burden from FA as chairman if chinese sale goes through. There's no way they could make that up surely? I think something is closer than is being let on here
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 20, 2016, 11:14:13 PM
Daily mail saying we want roger burden from FA as chairman if chinese sale goes through. There's no way they could make that up surely? I think something is closer than is being let on here

I've said it in here previously.  JP has undertaken "classic" tax planning of going non-resident (to Jersey) before the 5 April year end, in order to make a potentially tax-free capital gain in this current tax year (although he needs to spend 5 years resident abroad).  Given that his only real income source is from the club, with his financial profile it is the ONLY reason why he would have moved to Jersey.

A sale is clearly imminent, although of course it could fall through in which case JP can return to England and go abroad again next March to try again.

I did hear from a mate in Jersey that JP did in fact do exactly the same thing last year, and the anticipate Chinese deal fell through.  He seemingly bought his Jersey house well over a year ago.

Nothing is certain, but I'd say a sale this summer is a probability.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on June 20, 2016, 11:43:13 PM
Daily mail saying we want roger burden from FA as chairman if chinese sale goes through. There's no way they could make that up surely? I think something is closer than is being let on here

It is close but the club won't let it known to people like Matt Wilson from the express and star. As you know the club don't like transfers to come out before they are official let alone a takeover bid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 20, 2016, 11:46:03 PM
It is close but the club won't let it known to people like Matt Wilson from the express and star. As you know the club don't like transfers to come out before they are official let alone a takeover bid.

It this actually going to happen this time? In someways I wish this thread was locked till something factual came out
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbatillidie on June 21, 2016, 12:06:54 AM
It is close but the club won't let it known to people like Matt Wilson from the express and star. As you know the club don't like transfers to come out before they are official let alone a takeover bid.

But they would let it known to your mate?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 21, 2016, 12:22:16 AM
It is close but the club won't let it known to people like Matt Wilson from the express and star. As you know the club don't like transfers to come out before they are official let alone a takeover bid.

And yet you seem to know...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on June 21, 2016, 12:37:58 AM
And yet you seem to know...

That made me smile Jacko, well played.

A non UK takeover would make me very nervous. I think the stats show it becomes a 1 in 20 chance it'll work out 5 years from now?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 21, 2016, 12:52:24 AM
That made me smile Jacko, well played.

A non UK takeover would make me very nervous. I think the stats show it becomes a 1 in 20 chance it'll work out 5 years from now?!
yeah but if your glass was half full we could be the next Leicester?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on June 21, 2016, 01:12:36 AM
yeah but if your glass was half full we could be the next Leicester?

The half full, half empty approach gives the impression of an even debate, a balanced amount of evidence either way. Of the clubs WBA's size, only Leicester this past season have been brought by non Brits and has gone on do to well medium/long term.

The only one I can think of our size who have done decently to date  British owned wise are Stoke & they have been bankrolled in a way no longer allowed via FFP.

I'd gigantically love us to be brought out, for it to go well and for my boys to grow up supporting a team who wins things. Obviously I'd love that.

Blues, Blackburn, Wolves, Fulham, QPR, etc etc etc make me think otherwise.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on June 21, 2016, 07:36:26 AM
Daily mail saying we want roger burden from FA as chairman if chinese sale goes through. There's no way they could make that up surely? I think something is closer than is being let on here

Not a coup really.
The bloke has to stand down from the FA next month because he's reached the mandatory retirement age of 70.
Add to that the fact he's no experience within a league club and it looks like a kick o the nuts to me!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on June 21, 2016, 07:58:55 AM
The half full, half empty approach gives the impression of an even debate, a balanced amount of evidence either way. Of the clubs WBA's size, only Leicester this past season have been brought by non Brits and has gone on do to well medium/long term.

The only one I can think of our size who have done decently to date  British owned wise are Stoke & they have been bankrolled in a way no longer allowed via FFP.

I'd gigantically love us to be brought out, for it to go well and for my boys to grow up supporting a team who wins things. Obviously I'd love that.

Blues, Blackburn, Wolves, Fulham, QPR, etc etc etc make me think otherwise.
What about Southampton?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on June 21, 2016, 08:00:01 AM
Given that his only real income source is from the club, with his financial profile it is the ONLY reason why he would have moved to Jersey.
Massive Bergerac fan. 100%  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 21, 2016, 12:07:46 PM
What about Southampton?
I think it's not as simple as saying 'foreign owners are bad', but to be more specific I'd agree that the Saints owners seem great, albeit they are European. The same goes for Watford, again it's European ownership.

My concern is that like the Indian owners of the past, the Chinese just don't understand football culture and will invest poorly in comparison to British/European owners who understand how running a football club works.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 21, 2016, 12:11:01 PM
Maybe the EU vote will have a part to play here
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cads_ap_albion on June 21, 2016, 05:28:00 PM
Maybe the EU vote will ahve a part to play here

That's a new reason to vote remain then! Never thought I'd see Albion linked to politics...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 21, 2016, 06:21:49 PM
Massive Bergerac fan. 100%  ;)

Cheaper to buy the DVD box set than to move to Jersey  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 22, 2016, 08:12:07 AM
Cheaper to buy the DVD box set than to move to Jersey  ;)

Maybe he's part of a Bergerac re-enactment society?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 22, 2016, 08:48:42 AM
Maybe he's part of a Bergerac re-enactment society?

Maybe he's going to play a Brummie Charlie Hungerford
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on June 24, 2016, 12:32:31 PM
Quickly, buy us now while the pound is cheap
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on June 24, 2016, 09:35:20 PM
Quickly, buy us now while the pound is cheap

It will be cheap for a while and only get cheaper according to some.

Plenty of time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 25, 2016, 11:22:22 AM
It will be cheap for a while and only get cheaper according to some.

Plenty of time.

Would have been cheaper to buy us on the 27th February  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on June 26, 2016, 10:56:33 AM
John Percy has alluded to takeover talks ongoing on Twitter.

"@fentonstokie @Heronman68 @DannyPenfold nothing agreed yet, still talking. Believe west brom have got bigger issues at present (t/o). Sorry!"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 26, 2016, 11:13:16 AM
Bigger issues? What's he mean by that?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bradleysrocket on June 26, 2016, 11:21:37 AM
Bigger issues? What's he mean by that?
Takeover would be my guess.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on June 26, 2016, 11:41:16 AM
John Percy has alluded to takeover talks ongoing on Twitter.

"@fentonstokie @Heronman68 @DannyPenfold nothing agreed yet, still talking. Believe west brom have got bigger issues at present (t/o). Sorry!"

(t/o) = take over?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 26, 2016, 12:02:04 PM
Oh I read that as they had bigger issues as In buying players etc. Seems the t/o stands for takeover. Seems peace seems determinded to get out. I personally feel something must be up as we've heard very little from him, nothing about that so called meal they were having, even the contract resigning of Morrison now seems to be taking ages, something was supposed to be announced this week I'm sure I read regarding this and nothing. Just hope this does not drag on
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on June 26, 2016, 12:53:34 PM
JP doesn't have to say anything.
It is basically his own business he is selling.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 26, 2016, 01:17:59 PM
Sorry for my ignorance on this but could leaving the EU change everything here regarding a sale, with the pound really low etc
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on June 26, 2016, 01:21:22 PM
Sorry for my ignorance on this but could leaving the EU change everything here regarding a sale, with the pound really low etc

I'm no financial expert but it makes us 'cheaper' to buy because the pound is doing badly against most currencies, so essentially foreign buyers get more for their money. If JP wanted to use the money to invest overseas though he would be losing money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 26, 2016, 01:25:27 PM
But surely for peace to get what he wants they would have to pay way more now than before?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on June 26, 2016, 01:34:59 PM
But surely for peace to get what he wants they would have to pay way more now than before?

Again, I'm no financial expert but...

If we were sold for £150 million, that's £150 million. Before Brexit or after, it's still £150 million. If however, the buyer is say buying in American Dollars, then before Brexit they'd have had to pay about $225,000,000 (150,000,000 x 1.5 (ratio between pound and dollar)), and now they'd only have to pay $204,000,000 (150,000,000 x 1.36 (current exchange rate)).

Like I said, it doesn't really affect JP unless he wants to invest overseas because his money won't go as far vs the euro or the dollar, but if he wants to invest in the UK then I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 26, 2016, 01:37:47 PM
Thanks for trying to explain. So it would seem that leaving the EU would seem a good thing for a sale?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on June 26, 2016, 01:39:58 PM
Thanks for trying to explain. So it would seem that leaving the EU would seem a good thing for a sale?

Assuming JP doesn't want to invest abroad (and I have no idea if that's the case) then yes, maybe?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 26, 2016, 04:54:54 PM
Again, I'm no financial expert but...

If we were sold for £150 million, that's £150 million. Before Brexit or after, it's still £150 million. If however, the buyer is say buying in American Dollars, then before Brexit they'd have had to pay about $225,000,000 (150,000,000 x 1.5 (ratio between pound and dollar)), and now they'd only have to pay $204,000,000 (150,000,000 x 1.36 (current exchange rate)).

Like I said, it doesn't really affect JP unless he wants to invest overseas because his money won't go as far vs the euro or the dollar, but if he wants to invest in the UK then I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

Not sure it's quite that simple Mark, if it were Chinese buyers, they'd be buying in yuan, so you'd need to do a yuan to dollar conversion first. I'd say JP would want paying in dollars as it's the most stable currency. I'm not sure how the yuan's performing against the dollar & the pound.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on June 26, 2016, 04:59:39 PM
whatever its paid in i can see this screwing our pre season plans up again and back to panic buying nearer the season starts
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 26, 2016, 06:10:53 PM
It's an odd comment from Percy which he didn't elaborate on. Rumours are persisting although some of the sources are widely known as bull merchants of the highest order so if there is any truth in them remains to be seen.

Currency fluctuations won't make difference the club will have a sterling price and nearly all of it's trading is conducted in sterling, yes in Dollar terms the price falls but the deal would have been a long time in the pipeline so short term currency variance isn't going to make or break it. Player trading might result in liabilities and assets being priced in other currencies but again I doubt that has a significant impact on the value of the club.

The UK leaving the EU will not come into effect for two years so there is no immediate change to the legal framework nor will any controls on foreign workers impact on the players contracts etc.

If a takeover is immanent there may be a pause on deals but it literally would be days away otherwise it has to be done on a budgeted business as usual basis.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on June 26, 2016, 06:16:33 PM
If true, I hope for three things
1) the buyer has real credibility and has ambition for the long term
2) the  buyer is richer than the Villas buyer and has cash to spare to buy quality players and put us in the top 6
3) we are sold for more than the Villa so we will be the bigger club
 ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on June 26, 2016, 06:19:26 PM
If this supposed takeover does happen what happens if the new owners do not want Tony Pulis as head coach?.
It seems to me the wrong time to be launching a takeover deal With pre-season coming up shortly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 26, 2016, 06:30:49 PM
whatever its paid in i can see this screwing our pre season plans up again and back to panic buying nearer the season starts

Can't see it having an effect on pre-season or player acquisitions, the club will be sold as a going concern. Everything will stay in place from top to bottom.
It's not like the Villa Sale where there's a fire fight going on.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on June 28, 2016, 11:44:58 AM
1 week before Pre-Season training starts , I guess we should hear something pretty soon either way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 28, 2016, 10:35:12 PM
1 week before Pre-Season training starts , I guess we should hear something pretty soon either way.

No there are rumours of a takeover but the club has said nothing unlike last summer there is no clear timetable so we only know a takeover is happening until it is almost complete.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 28, 2016, 10:46:04 PM
No there are rumours of a takeover but the club has said nothing unlike last summer there is no clear timetable so we only know a takeover is happening until it is almost complete.

Absolutely, after it fell through last year they will wait until the latest possible moment to make any official comment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 29, 2016, 11:44:32 AM
another article about a take over.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/2/837551868?-11200:789:0
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 29, 2016, 12:08:00 PM
another article about a take over.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/2/837551868?-11200:789:0


I believe that they know full well that things are a lot further down the line the club are willing to officially say, can't blame the club for playing something like this down after it fell through last year. I don't expect the club to make any official comment on any potential takeover until the very last moment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 29, 2016, 12:35:39 PM
Just read that article, seems to me that they know the takeover is close.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 29, 2016, 01:53:25 PM
what we don't want is any take over affecting a very critical transfer window, the talk about pulis and Morrison has gone very quiet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 29, 2016, 01:56:24 PM
what we don't want is any take over affecting a very critical transfer window, the talk about pulis and Morrison has gone very quiet.

Everything is quiet, press don't seem to have much of a clue these days. We should have budgets already set so it shouldn't affect transfers in theory but I think we know it really will do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 29, 2016, 02:06:01 PM
Everything is quiet, press don't seem to have much of a clue these days. We should have budgets already set so it shouldn't affect transfers in theory but I think we know it really will do.
I look at it this way, if I was the seller I wouldn't want money being spent, if I was the buyer I wouldn't want the seller spending my future investment. :( if that makes sense.
not a good scenario really.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 29, 2016, 09:28:27 PM
Seems to be a bit of traction with this take over hope we get an owner with deep pockets, this time next year we could be premiere Champions of England starting tour of far east. ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 30, 2016, 06:59:02 AM
I look at it this way, if I was the seller I wouldn't want money being spent, if I was the buyer I wouldn't want the seller spending my future investment. :( if that makes sense.
not a good scenario really.

It won't operate like that at all. We are not waiting for a cash injection to make us solvent we can and have to trade normally until something happens e.g. contracts are signed and money changes hands. It is in neither party's best interests not to.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 30, 2016, 07:13:30 AM
Seems to be a bit of traction with this take over hope we get an owner with deep pockets, this time next year we could be premiere Champions of England starting tour of far east. ;D

Or it will be a disaster with board meddling to poor managerial appointments all while siphoning money out of the club. I'm not at all confident and I'm definitely in the better the devil you know camp.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on June 30, 2016, 05:48:12 PM
It won't operate like that at all. We are not waiting for a cash injection to make us solvent we can and have to trade normally until something happens e.g. contracts are signed and money changes hands. It is in neither party's best interests not to.
I did say IF I was the seller or buyer, not how its likely to progress.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 01, 2016, 10:33:17 AM
Or it will be a disaster with board meddling to poor managerial appointments all while siphoning money out of the club. I'm not at all confident and I'm definitely in the better the devil you know camp.

JP wants to sell full stop  so "better the devil you know " is extinct i'm afraid  only to be replaced by "money talks"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on July 01, 2016, 12:27:49 PM
Last year on the 3rd of July we entered a exclusivity arrangement with a consortium, but the deal fell through on the 24th of July. Do you reckon we could be in a similar situation, cant see it dragging on into August.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 01, 2016, 12:35:09 PM
be nice if its the fella reportedly buying the Dingles
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on July 01, 2016, 03:56:54 PM
We'll be 10% cheaper now thanks to the fall in the pound
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on July 01, 2016, 03:58:59 PM
Wang Jianlin being linked again in the Birmingham Mail, speculative thinking basically a Click bait article.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-talk-albion-11553047#comments-section
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 02, 2016, 10:27:22 AM
Jack ma from alibaba group set to take us over apparently. Only worth $23.7 billion :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 02, 2016, 10:33:47 AM
Jack ma from alibaba group set to take us over apparently. Only worth $23.7 billion :o

Do you have a source?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 02, 2016, 10:34:34 AM
Do you have a source?

Some reports from China coming out saying he's set to complete a takeover this month
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 02, 2016, 10:36:16 AM
Some reports from China coming out saying he's set to complete a takeover this month

Does mention us as it could be wolves
And knowing our luck it probably is
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on July 02, 2016, 10:37:49 AM
Some reports from China coming out saying he's set to complete a takeover this month

Are there any links to these reports knocking around?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on July 02, 2016, 10:45:49 AM
Sorry but don't believe this story. Far too good to be true, crazy amount of money that is, much like that Wang Jailin chap who apparently is interested.

I do think there is something in the pipeline but there needs to be something happening soon as we don't want it to interupt our transfer plans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 02, 2016, 10:46:54 AM
Just going from a post off twitter so could be bull for all I know as my grasp of Chinese isn't the best and no direct link to any site that I can tell. At the very least it will give us something to moan about if it turns out not to be true  :D

(http://screenshot.net/ny76ebl.jpg)
(http://screenshot.net/v971vf2.jpg)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on July 02, 2016, 10:50:18 AM
Be able to buy all my electrics on a match day if it is Alibaba ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 02, 2016, 10:55:29 AM
Just going from a post off twitter so could be bull for all I know as my grasp of Chinese isn't the best and no direct link to any site that I can tell. At the very least it will give us something to moan about if it turns out not to be true  :D

(http://screenshot.net/ny76ebl.jpg)
(http://screenshot.net/v971vf2.jpg)

That price equates to £188m

If Jeremy Peace somehow pulls this off then he's a genius as far as his own wealth is concerned
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 02, 2016, 11:13:14 AM
I'll expect the Bham evening mail, wide of the mark comment fairly soon then
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on July 02, 2016, 11:18:04 AM
Is that Ali baba & the 40 thieves or the Bongo bandits?  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie_liam on July 02, 2016, 12:38:12 PM
Does that mean we could save a few quid and buy the fake shirts for £12 instead of £50 on aliexpress! Haha  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 02, 2016, 01:01:18 PM
If this is true

Oh my days  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on July 02, 2016, 01:03:15 PM
Please be true
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 02, 2016, 01:04:13 PM
Someone saying its a load of rubbis on unofficial
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boingboing1989 on July 02, 2016, 01:10:11 PM
If it is Jack Ma then he is the second richest person in China and one of the richest people in the world.

Not getting my hopes up at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 02, 2016, 01:11:33 PM
It seems far to good to be true. With Wolves being taken over you just know what's going to happen, nothing for us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 02, 2016, 01:16:03 PM
Oh my, we could be the new Man City! :o  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 02, 2016, 01:24:03 PM
Sorry but I can't see that happening. All it takes these days is some loser on twitter with a rumour and a bit of photoshop and suddenly the club is being bought by billionaires.

Obviously I hope it's true but it's like Wanda all over again. Sadly it's more likely to be sold to someone like Villas 'Dr X' bloke.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 02, 2016, 01:38:15 PM
It mentions Birmingham...Is he going to buy out Birmingham City?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 02, 2016, 01:42:31 PM
I've done a bit of google translate and it definitely says West Bromwich Albion a couple of times and also Jack ma and alibaba group so I think there could be something in it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Scooby Doo on July 02, 2016, 02:07:13 PM
That price equates to £188m

If Jeremy Peace somehow pulls this off then he's a genius as far as his own wealth is concerned


No chance of anyone paying anywhere near that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 02, 2016, 02:43:13 PM


No chance of anyone paying anywhere near that.

I suspect it's split between £x to buy the shares from Peace plus £y injected as new funds for new players
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on July 02, 2016, 03:45:18 PM
Is that Ali baba & the 40 thieves or the Bongo bandits?  :o

Very funny! I'm rehearsing that play with my Year 6 kids at the moment! Jokes are terrible! Back on topic- Jesus! This could be massive!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 02, 2016, 05:47:37 PM
This deafening silence from JP in regards to take over is some what annoying but it looks like our lack of movement in transfer targets be them at the top or bottom of our ever shrinking list is really pishing me off.
This take over is definitely affecting our progress in this market no question, so Peace get your finger out and sell or do what your paid to do as chairman and sanction deals.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on July 02, 2016, 05:50:15 PM
Regardless of a pathetically takeover it should be business as usual. We could have sold Saido and matched Palace's Benteke bid by now.

Really worried that if a takeover doesn't happen we are going to be miles behind similar sized clubs who will have spent a fortune in a months time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 02, 2016, 05:56:42 PM
We are going to be taken over but you won't know about it until it happens.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 02, 2016, 05:59:58 PM
I feel if we are not careful, takeover or not we could be relegated here. We need our first signing this coming week, otherwise I think this season could go pear shaped before it's even started. I feel peace wants to sell, not sure about these rumours, but it's clear he wants out now. I personally think peace, who is know mug, knows we need a cash injection just to help stand still. The ridiculous amounts of money going around means it's either time for him to sell up to someone who may have more backing than him, or put up in terms of he will have to push the boat out more than ever this summer and knowing his past that's something he won't be keen on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 02, 2016, 06:16:59 PM
Regardless of a pathetically takeover it should be business as usual. We could have sold Saido and matched Palace's Benteke bid by now.

Really worried that if a takeover doesn't happen we are going to be miles behind similar sized clubs who will have spent a fortune in a months time.

Whilst I'm sure we'd be willing to do this there is no way on earth that Benteke would consider coming here and neither will any other decent player that other similar sized clubs will sign.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 02, 2016, 06:18:21 PM
Sounds like Brexit on here, keep calm, window only opened on Friday.
Last years potential takeover didn't stop us from being one of the highest spenders, although I will concede that those brought in all haven't been a success.
If you've forgotten Spuds didn't help with their last minute bargainfest  8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 02, 2016, 06:19:44 PM
Whilst I'm sure we'd be willing to do this there is no way on earth that Benteke would consider coming here and neither will any other decent player that other similar sized clubs will sign.

Not true mate he signed for Villa afterall
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 02, 2016, 06:24:27 PM
Not true mate he signed for Villa afterall

He was relatively unknown then and perhaps used the move to get into the Prem. I'm sure I read that he said he wouldn't want to play for us anyhow due to our style of play.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 02, 2016, 07:08:32 PM
He was relatively unknown then and perhaps used the move to get into the Prem. I'm sure I read that he said he wouldn't want to play for us anyhow due to our style of play.

Whooosh - it was a joke !!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on July 02, 2016, 08:00:56 PM
Had it on good authority from someone who is deeply in the know that there is very real interest and at an advanced stage.  As I've said before,  I am sceptical of Chinese ability to follow through on deals but my contact seems to believe this has a good chance.

A
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 02, 2016, 08:57:08 PM
It won't operate like that at all. We are not waiting for a cash injection to make us solvent we can and have to trade normally until something happens e.g. contracts are signed and money changes hands. It is in neither party's best interests not to.

I'm with you on this Stan, it will be sold as a going concern, can't see the new owners being hands on at all
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 03, 2016, 09:43:20 AM
Had it on good authority from someone who is deeply in the know that there is very real interest and at an advanced stage.  As I've said before,  I am sceptical of Chinese ability to follow through on deals but my contact seems to believe this has a good chance.

A

Interesting, if it is one of the high profile super rich such as Ma or Jianlin I would have thought that they would have the resources to buy us several times over even allowing for the fact much of their wealth is tied up in other assets. However there are a lot of other Chinese businessmen with over arching ambitions and insufficient capital to make them a reality these are far more numerous than the super rich and could be ruinous owners.

I hope for the best here but fear the worst. As ever there is very little hard news but the persistent rumours of something in the pipeline are beginning to make think there might be a serious proposal on the table.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 03, 2016, 11:11:25 AM
Hopefully BREXIT will help pave the way for a takeover if it is on the cards. The £ is down over 10% against Yuan so JP gets more for his shares or the new owners could acquire us for less.  There has never been a better time for this to happen, prayer mats to the ready fellow baggies!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 03, 2016, 11:13:01 AM
Interesting, if it is one of the high profile super rich such as Ma or Jianlin I would have thought that they would have the resources to buy us several times over even allowing for the fact much of their wealth is tied up in other assets. However there are a lot of other Chinese businessmen with over arching ambitions and insufficient capital to make them a reality these are far more numerous than the super rich and could be ruinous owners.

I hope for the best here but fear the worst. As ever there is very little hard news but the persistent rumours of something in the pipeline are beginning to make think there might be a serious proposal on the table.

True in what you about no smoke without fire. As for Ma and Jianlin if it is them, the great thing about us is the fact they're not going to have to spend a ton just on our name. If they are clever we can built into a brand no debt, we own everything. So the building blocks are there. Just hope Peace avoids another Venky's/Yeung. Though that would be a risk if we sold to anybody not just the far East
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 03, 2016, 11:48:35 AM
I would think this is a Tata/JLR type deal, the owners know how to make money, WBA know how to run a football club. If we keep that relationship intact, it can only be good news. I've dealt with the Chinese, & their psyche is very similar to the Japanese, so the fact that WBA principals, Mark Jenkins, Richard Garlick & Nick Hammond tend to be "outward facing" will stand us in good stead.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zac on July 03, 2016, 04:33:50 PM
Matt Wilson of the Express and Dingle has said that Jack Ma isn't one of those that JP is fielding interest from.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 03, 2016, 05:46:23 PM
I think we all knew it was wishful thinking the billionaire guy. What is more worrying is he says, fielding interest, this says to me they are not that far along with anything at all and this could drag on for ages more and probably like last time end with no agreement
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on July 03, 2016, 05:59:46 PM
Local Jounro's haven't got a clue, seen so much tripe from both local papers about transfer targets and none have come to fruition. The only good reliable journo that covers the Midlands is John Percy.  As for the takeover I think we have to be patient.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 03, 2016, 06:28:52 PM
Local Jounro's haven't got a clue, seen so much tripe from both local papers about transfer targets and none have come to fruition. The only good reliable journo that covers the Midlands is John Percy.  As for the takeover I think we have to be patient.

Think Matt Wilson's pretty good, EM's been a joke since CL left.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 03, 2016, 07:51:07 PM
Matt Wilson of the Express and Dingle has said that Jack Ma isn't one of those that JP is fielding interest from.

To be fair the longer it went with nothing more than those screenshots that appeared on twitter the less likely it was to be authentic, as for the club fielding interest that appears to be their standard answer when asked about takeover. Club won't admit to anything more until a deal is virtually done after what happened last year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 03, 2016, 07:53:25 PM
Think Matt Wilson's pretty good, EM's been a joke since CL left.

Matt Wilson is like the rest of them and will just say what he's given by the club so when asked about takeover this time the answer was always unlikely to be any different than the usual fielding interest. Telling that they have said Jack Ma isn't one of the interested parties though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 03, 2016, 07:56:39 PM
It's all becoming very similar to last season, lots of talk then at the end of it nothing gets done. Hopefully it won't interfere with our transfers if we keep Peace at the helm.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on July 03, 2016, 08:02:14 PM
It's all becoming very similar to last season, lots of talk then at the end of it nothing gets done. Hopefully it won't interfere with our transfers if we keep Peace at the helm.

I think if it was going to happen it should have happened by now. Pre-season training already happening.Not to sure about it interfering with our transfers as we seem to be playing a waiting game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 03, 2016, 08:32:42 PM
I seriously don't know what to believe.

It felt that it might be close before. The silence was giving me confidence that something might seriously be happening.

But now after matt wilson comments of peace is fielding interest at this point makes me think we are miles away. If so we have another big summer in regards if squad recruitinment and it feels like were letting players pass us by that would improve us.. Ie ritchie towensend and haggling for berahino.

I really hope somethings is happening that no one knows about.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stuarthunt on July 03, 2016, 09:44:50 PM
Hi guys, I'm new to the blog.
From Stourbridge but born & bred in Albion country Wednesbury.

Ref takeover I am as sceptical as they come but I do really believe there is something definately happening on this.
Local press are under strict orders on this and club won't release any real details until deal is pretty much done.
Hopefully this happens as we have gone backwards over last few seasons & it's getting harder to compete with out real clout behind us.
I'm keeping everything crossed.
Boing Boing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 03, 2016, 09:59:08 PM
Matt Wilson is like the rest of them and will just say what he's given by the club so when asked about takeover this time the answer was always unlikely to be any different than the usual fielding interest. Telling that they have said Jack Ma isn't one of the interested parties though.

Yes, I agree, but at least he tells it like it is, rather than the sensationalist rubbish that comes from the EM.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 03, 2016, 10:10:37 PM
I think if it was going to happen it should have happened by now. Pre-season training already happening.Not to sure about it interfering with our transfers as we seem to be playing a waiting game.

It won't have any impact on transfers or pre-season, they'll be buying a going concern. Whoever is buying the club, we need to understand their motives, I suspect it will be to get brand recognition, if so, they'll want us to progress to Europe, so they'll provide enough cash to get us into a top 6 place, but it's unlikely to be this window, & it might not be the next. I image the target for this year will be to preserve our EPL status, & then push on in the summer of 2017.
Look at how Leicester's owners are throwing cash at their team now, Jamie Vardy's been given a contract allegedly worth £120,000 a week.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stuarthunt on July 03, 2016, 10:22:00 PM
Bang on John
We will have our list of targets with or without takeover, lets just hope we can get our 1st choice ones and not 4th or 5th in each position were looking at.
Ref takeover, because if FFP we would have to build slowly anyway as fines and that would soon mount up i believe.
We need it to happen though as everyone is being brought or having big investment, Swansea, Everton & Palace to name a few, then there r the teams in the championship with rich owners, Sheff Weds the Vile & the dingles apparently about to be brought so its essential we get sold IMO
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 03, 2016, 10:36:19 PM
Bang on John
We will have our list of targets with or without takeover, lets just hope we can get our 1st choice ones and not 4th or 5th in each position were looking at.
Ref takeover, because if FFP we would have to build slowly anyway as fines and that would soon mount up i believe.
We need it to happen thou as everyone is being brought or having big investment, Swansea, Everton & Palace to name a few, then there r the teams in the championship with rich owners, Sheff Weds the Vile & the dingles apparently about to be brought so its essential we get sold IMO

If you think about it this doesn't weaken our position, it strengthens it. If far eastern investors are looking at the EPL as a vehicle for brand recognition, there are only 20 clubs, 23 if you count the promoted clubs. The more clubs that get sponsors, the less opportunities there are, the last man standing gets to pick and choose, it's a sellers market.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 03, 2016, 11:42:53 PM
I recall a comment recently from I think a journalist using the initials TO (takeover?) as being the number one priority for the club at that moment ahead of transfers so I do hope this doesn't drag on like last year and end up again with no concrete deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: GrGr on July 04, 2016, 03:29:31 AM
Hi guys, I'm new to the blog.
From Stourbridge but born & bred in Albion country Wednesbury.

Ref takeover I am as sceptical as they come but I do really believe there is something definately happening on this.
Local press are under strict orders on this and club won't release any real details until deal is pretty much done.
Hopefully this happens as we have gone backwards over last few seasons & it's getting harder to compete with out real clout behind us.
I'm keeping everything crossed.
Boing Boing

That just means the local press isn't doing it's job. JP doesn't own the local press and it's their job to report the news. It's not their job to look after the interests of JP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 04, 2016, 06:58:42 AM
I don't think the local press are been told they can't speak. Its just they know hardly anything. These days they almost guess at who want to sign. Worst kept secret that jp wants to sell and we want to sign matt phillips.

Phillips thing is starting to really grind. Sometimes i think if there was no takeover that would have been done now, even with albion being slow movers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on July 04, 2016, 07:34:10 AM
One can only imagine Pulis would have wanted at least 1 or 2 new signings in for the start of pre season training today . Puli has said hardly anything last few days and I can't see him not coming out and dropping a few disgruntled notes to the press before long . He's forever banging the drum about moving forward well the squad is weaker than last season so should be an interesting few days .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 04, 2016, 08:46:43 AM
Would be surprised if anything happened on this now, the timing just seems wrong. Surely if someone had genuine intentions of buying, in order to build a brand, they would want a full pre-season and control over all transfers. What's the point of buying a club towards the end of the window? If we have a bad start and are down the bottom, they will not be able to react until January and that might be too late. In effect they could be spending £200m, or whatever it is, to buy a team destined for the Championship.
I'm not saying that will happen, before I get slated for negativity, just pointing out that time could be running out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 04, 2016, 08:51:33 AM
The takeover will have no effect on the day to day running of the football club. If I wanted to buy Sainsburys, it wouldn't mean they would run out of carrots.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 04, 2016, 09:05:16 AM
The takeover will have no effect on the day to day running of the football club. If I wanted to buy Sainsburys, it wouldn't mean they would run out of carrots.

When carrots go off...they turn black.
Who wants to buy anything with orange and black on it?   :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 04, 2016, 09:05:33 AM
The takeover will have no effect on the day to day running of the football club. If I wanted to buy Sainsburys, it wouldn't mean they would run out of carrots.
Yes but Sainsbury's do not have a transfer window for buying carrots.  ;D
The window restricts the influence of any new owner, and their money, between Sept - January. If the day to day running is based on JP's budget them we will be shopping at the lower end of the market, whereas the new bloke may have the finance and ambition to shop at the higher end, therefore the timing has to have an effect.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 04, 2016, 09:12:53 AM
so all 4 west midlands teams could potentially have Chineese owners, i really expected interest from India considering our involvement there
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 04, 2016, 09:14:44 AM
That just means the local press isn't doing it's job. JP doesn't own the local press and it's their job to report the news. It's not their job to look after the interests of JP.

Sorry to disagree, if the T/O is happening surely it means confidentiality agreements are being adhered to, football press would be the last to know particularly local presss, I think the financial press would know sooner
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 04, 2016, 09:16:01 AM
Let me try to help some understanding here. Do you guys know how stocks & shares work? If you buy a share in a business, you are in effect loaning that business your money & in return you get a share of the profits. If the business thrives, it's value will increase, so if you the sell your share, you'll make an additional profit.

The more shares you buy, the more influence you can have, so once you own 50% you have what is called a controlling interest.

I can't remember how many shares JP owns in WBA, but it's something like 70%.

I've no knowledge of the details, but it's possible that it's JP's controlling share that's on offer.

So you're a Chinese businessman, with a very limited knowledge of European woops English culture, & an even more limited knowledge of how a football club works, but you can see an opportunity. Are you really going to come in tomorrow & make demands on transfers & day to day stuff, or are you going to observe for a while, & make prods here & there to make sure you retain your EPL status. Meanwhile you're improving your knowledge in where football sits in the European culture, & creating plans to get the maximum exposure for WBA & ultimately your company, which is why you bought the f*cking thing in the first place?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 04, 2016, 09:30:56 AM
I will believe it when/if it happens.
Chinese whispers when we concentrate on India to invest in coaching.
That does not make sense when China wants to hold a world cup, surely if they were coming in they would want that coaching investment with their grass routes to establish a brand.
Weve had the international players transfer rumours, weve had the mystery Chinese billionaire takeover now the lads and pensioners are going to run up mountains in Austria again.
Whats the season ticket count I hear JP shouting!


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 04, 2016, 09:33:43 AM
The best policy with all of these things is to assume nothing will happen until it is announced.

I'm more concerned that rivals are currently stealing a march in the transfer window which, with the amount of money floating around this season, is a dangerous position to be in. We knew we were safe a number of weeks/months ago and unsurprisingly the Albion are left behind as ever.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 04, 2016, 09:47:53 AM
JP dont like paying wages for pre season
TP will say they have not had a proper pre season
Same old same old
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 04, 2016, 09:48:17 AM
Let me try to help some understanding here. Do you guys know how stocks & shares work? If you buy a share in a business, you are in effect loaning that business your money & in return you get a share of the profits. If the business thrives, it's value will increase, so if you the sell your share, you'll make an additional profit.

The more shares you buy, the more influence you can have, so once you own 50% you have what is called a controlling interest.

I can't remember how many shares JP owns in WBA, but it's something like 70%.

I've no knowledge of the details, but it's possible that it's JP's controlling share that's on offer.

So you're a Chinese businessman, with a very limited knowledge of European woops English culture, & an even more limited knowledge of how a football club works, but you can see an opportunity. Are you really going to come in tomorrow & make demands on transfers & day to day stuff, or are you going to observe for a while, & make prods here & there to make sure you retain your EPL status. Meanwhile you're improving your knowledge in where football sits in the European culture, & creating plans to get the maximum exposure for WBA & ultimately your company, which is why you bought the f*cking thing in the first place?
Appreciate the (attempted) education, but all you have offered is your interpretation of how it will work.
It could just as easily be interpreted thus.
You are investing £200m in a stable but. at risk business, do you sit back and hope that the current incumbent can keep it afloat, or, do you affect it as much as possible to ensure that you have something to build on come January.
I'm not saying this is correct, how would I know, I'm just saying that if it was me I would want it done as early as possible.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 04, 2016, 09:56:27 AM
I agree if I was investing that amount of cash I would want to protect my investment, get rid of Pulis and get some quality in ready to go first game of the season.
Premiership or bust at that price or simply buy the Dings for a pittance and invest in players.
Its a con, worked last year so use it again, whats the season ticket total!
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 1954 on July 04, 2016, 10:02:40 AM
Jeremy owns approximately 88%
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 04, 2016, 10:03:35 AM
Appreciate the (attempted) education, but all you have offered is your interpretation of how it will work.
It could just as easily be interpreted thus.
You are investing £200m in a stable but. at risk business, do you sit back and hope that the current incumbent can keep it afloat, or, do you affect it as much as possible to ensure that you have something to build on come January.
I'm not saying this is correct, how would I know, I'm just saying that if it was me I would want it done as early as possible.

TBH with your scenario, I wouldn't, invest that is?

On another note why do you feel the need to be sarcastic, undoubtedly there will be some on this board who have some understanding of the issues, but we're a broad church, & so it's realistic to assume that some won't. I was just trying to paint a picture to support my argument & maybe help some posters to understand my reasoning.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 04, 2016, 10:19:06 AM
TBH with your scenario, I wouldn't, invest that is?

On another note why do you feel the need to be sarcastic, undoubtedly there will be some on this board who have some understanding of the issues, but we're a broad church, & so it's realistic to assume that some won't. I was just trying to paint a picture to support my argument & maybe help some posters to understand my reasoning.
It came across as a bit condescending mate and, let's face it, none of us fully understand what is going on, so it is all pure speculation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 04, 2016, 12:00:01 PM
It came across as a bit condescending mate and, let's face it, none of us fully understand what is going on, so it is all pure speculation.

If you're posting across a broad spectrum of people, some posts will be condescending to some & helpful to others, Not always, but most of the time, I try to rise above it, otherwise you get drawn into areas you'd rather not go.

So let's get back to your scenario.
If I were looking to invest £200 million in a UK football club, & there was any risk, I just wouldn't do it. I'd look for a club to invest in as an improvement project, Birmingham City for example, & I'd expect to get that for about £50 million. Bit like buying a house, you'd either pay top money for a modern property, or buy a run down property with a view to increasing it's value by modernisation.

If we now look at the motives for buying, Abramavich bought Chelsea as a tax sink, in my opinion, he would be paying tax at such a high rate that he off-set it by buying Chelsea, so Chelsea is being paid for by some tax payers somewhere.
Modern purchasers of football clubs tend to buy to promote brands, & perhaps a bit of tax sink also. The work we are doing in India,while outwardly altruistic, is really trying to promote the WBA brand. So, in effect, we're just a huge billboard.
Now if you look at the exposure the EPL gets, I think I might want some of that, but there's only 20 clubs I can latch on to, & if I want exposure in the wider European market, there's only 6, perhaps 7 with the cup winners, so supply and demand would suggest that the top 6 clubs are more valuable than the rest.

Going back to the billboard, the billboard's in a pretty good position, but it's a bit rough round the edges, so it might want a bit of money spending on it to make it a bit more presentable.

Going back now to the alleged situation at the Albion, if negotiations are indeed well down the track, it's inconceivable that our principles, Mark Jenkins, Richard Garlick, Nick Hammond & possibly even Tony Pulis have'nt been spoken to by the buyers. In the same way we do "due diligence", they will have also. So a meeting of minds will ensure a smooth transition.

I just down't see any "throwing money" in a blind panic, if we do, we've got the wrong buyers

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 04, 2016, 01:53:17 PM
FAO Stoxman,

whats the latest on the markets in relation to investment in EPL?
ie, Is the movement in value of the £ likely to make clubs more attractive?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 04, 2016, 07:34:25 PM
Jeremy owns approximately 88%

When Jeremy bought out the fans shares,he said he valued the club at £7m, if he put it on the market for £7m we would be sold tomorrrow.
Why do rich people want more and more money?
I would retire on £7m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 04, 2016, 07:35:53 PM
with respect the club is worth a lot more

would you sell for 7m if you knew that you can easily get over 100million??

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 04, 2016, 07:40:54 PM
I think I read somewhere...
It isn't the money itself, it is trying to see what they can do, to make more.
That is where the "excitement" is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 04, 2016, 07:41:53 PM
the training ground is probably worth more than £7m. gotta give it to Jeremy he knows is way around money. buy low sell high.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 05, 2016, 10:12:03 AM
All gone quiet on takeover probably not happening people in china just got muddled up with them dingles up road.If it was true I believe we would have heard more rummers from this end not that rubbish that came out from china.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 05, 2016, 10:35:25 AM
The first announcement from the club will be "sold"
These sort of deals need to be done under the radar as being in the public domain can affect valuations / destroy trust / de-rail deal.

JP would have been royally drunk off that the deal didn't get done last year, i would be amazed if he was involved in a deal this year he would allow it to become public from "his" end.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 05, 2016, 05:40:01 PM
with respect the club is worth a lot more

would you sell for 7m if you knew that you can easily get over 100million??

I know we are worth more than that Tom, i'm just saying what Peace valued us at when he bought out the shareholders. But he is asking a ridiculous price, twice as much as what was paid for the Vile. No one will buy us at the price he is asking.
He takes ages to sign a player quibbling about a milion here or there, the expects top price when he wants to sell something.
Never known such a greedy individual in my life. Why build a new stand when a coat of paint will do?
Watch the Dingles be bought by someone filthy rich, and we will be the poor men of the Midlands again. 7 years in the prem and we still can't outbid the likes of Watford,( who will probably sign Berahino), Stoke, Norwich, or even QPR. Pathetic.
I wish he would just bugger off and take his filthy money with him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WednesburyAlbion on July 05, 2016, 06:45:05 PM
I know we are worth more than that Tom, i'm just saying what Peace valued us at when he bought out the shareholders. But he is asking a ridiculous price, twice as much as what was paid for the Vile. No one will buy us at the price he is asking.
He takes ages to sign a player quibbling about a milion here or there, the expects top price when he wants to sell something.
Never known such a greedy individual in my life. Why build a new stand when a coat of paint will do?
Watch the Dingles be bought by someone filthy rich, and we will be the poor men of the Midlands again. 7 years in the prem and we still can't outbid the likes of Watford,( who will probably sign Berahino), Stoke, Norwich, or even QPR. Pathetic.
I wish he would just bugger off and take his filthy money with him.


All these clubs have spent more and have achieved less, and you want us to be like them? For what reasons? "Shows ambition"?

If we can finish as well off or better than these teams you've said, and spend half the amount, then surely you have to applaud the man.

Newcastle showed ambition in January, remember?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 05, 2016, 07:18:20 PM
It's not ambition when your best players would sooner play for similar sized clubs. If Man U or Asrenal wanted them fair enough,i wouldn't blame them. But Kamara, Odemwingie, Berahino, Kevin Phillips, Gary Megson...are they all wrong about Peace?
If we had spent the £5m on Lukaku for another loan spell who knows what might have happened, but again, we showed no ambition, left it until the last minute and then signed sick note Vic for £6m.
We won't sign any players who will improve us again this window, despite the prem money going through the roof.
If we had a decent price for the sale,say £50-£60m we would be snapped up.
The only ambition Peace has got is to make money for himself.
He has even moved to Jersey to avoid mainland tax.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 05, 2016, 07:41:33 PM
Why don't you get off the owners back?
He's done his best for the club he supports within his means,and always a profit at year end.
So what if he makes a great profit by selling its not a crime to make money you know.
He won't sell us down the river,as usual he will do his very best for WBA.
Stop knocking the guy eh.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 05, 2016, 07:55:01 PM
Great post liverbaggie Peace done a wonderful job over the years and if or when {I'm still sceptical}He does sell idont think he will send us up the river.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 05, 2016, 07:57:01 PM
I remember when you all wore Tony Mowbray masks as well. Oh how i laughed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WednesburyAlbion on July 05, 2016, 08:10:50 PM
It's not ambition when your best players would sooner play for similar sized clubs. If Man U or Asrenal wanted them fair enough,i wouldn't blame them. But Kamara, Odemwingie, Berahino, Kevin Phillips, Gary Megson...are they all wrong about Peace?
If we had spent the £5m on Lukaku for another loan spell who knows what might have happened, but again, we showed no ambition, left it until the last minute and then signed sick note Vic for £6m.
We won't sign any players who will improve us again this window, despite the prem money going through the roof.
If we had a decent price for the sale,say £50-£60m we would be snapped up.
The only ambition Peace has got is to make money for himself.
He has even moved to Jersey to avoid mainland tax.

But you haven't mentioned McCauley, Yacob, Mulumbu, Hodgson. One went in to manage England the players were fantastic business. Your examples are poor considering none of them achieved nothing once leaving us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on July 05, 2016, 08:21:03 PM
It's not ambition when your best players would sooner play for similar sized clubs. If Man U or Asrenal wanted them fair enough,i wouldn't blame them. But Kamara, Odemwingie, Berahino, Kevin Phillips, Gary Megson...are they all wrong about Peace?
If we had spent the £5m on Lukaku for another loan spell who knows what might have happened, but again, we showed no ambition, left it until the last minute and then signed sick note Vic for £6m.
We won't sign any players who will improve us again this window, despite the prem money going through the roof.
If we had a decent price for the sale,say £50-£60m we would be snapped up.
The only ambition Peace has got is to make money for himself.
He has even moved to Jersey to avoid mainland tax.

Some good points but just a couple of things. Lukaku wasn't going to sign for us initially we could have offered 10 million. He went back to chelsea to fight for a spot.
Also using Berahino, Kamara and Odemwingie as character witnesses isn't the best defence :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 05, 2016, 08:54:05 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Peace buy majority control of the club with a loan leveraged on it and used the clubs profits to then pay back the loan his investor, i.e. put not a single penny in to acquire our football club? The same strategy used by the glazers a decade later. We don't know what he is looking for, £150m to £200m is rumoured in the press. If we are not sold this summer despite the low value of the pound and all interest in the prem then I think it's a fair conclusion to draw that he has set the bar too high. More to the point there is clear tension between what is best for the club and the maximum money Peace can try to obtain for himself. Suppose the club is worth £150m, he could keep £100m and demand the remainder is put back into the club, which don't forget is still £100m out for no investment in. I will eat my hat if that happens.

It is not in doubt that he has managed the club well but let's not also forget his annual £1m dividend to himself so he is paid handsomely for doing his job. On a day to day level I think we have every right to be peeved with the failure to lower match-day prices (not matching the £30 away fan ceiling this year was pathetic), the lack of ambition to redevelop the Halfords and the general refusal to take any calculated risk to try to kick the club on.

I don't see how we can improve any further under his handbrake chairmanship so the sooner we are sold onto an investor with deep pockets and some ambition the better. In truth we went stale about three years ago. A few murals around the BRE won't cut it.

The bottom line is if he holds out for the maximum sale price and takes all the money with him then he is putting his own interest before the football club. I'm glad he has managed our club as a business so we are financially secure but I won't applaud a sale that doesn't leave something behind. Be interesting to see what happens this summer. I suspect we will not be sold, as the chairman doesn't strike me as someone willing to be flexible or is easy to deal with. Hope I'm proved wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 05, 2016, 09:03:19 PM
Who says we have to be sold by the time the season kicks off. We are guessing that after what happened last year but this year there has been no timescale on this. As it has been already said our business dealings won't be effected so this could run and run. It took years seemingly for Everton to find investment. I personally like the previous poster said fear peace will price out of any deal due to the valuation he has on the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 05, 2016, 09:08:46 PM
It's not ambition when your best players would sooner play for similar sized clubs. If Man U or Asrenal wanted them fair enough,i wouldn't blame them. But Kamara, Odemwingie, Berahino, Kevin Phillips, Gary Megson...are they all wrong about Peace?
If we had spent the £5m on Lukaku for another loan spell who knows what might have happened, but again, we showed no ambition, left it until the last minute and then signed sick note Vic for £6m.
We won't sign any players who will improve us again this window, despite the prem money going through the roof.
If we had a decent price for the sale,say £50-£60m we would be snapped up.
The only ambition Peace has got is to make money for himself.
He has even moved to Jersey to avoid mainland tax.

No we had agreed everything, he was on his way to us when he got a call to goto Everton instead cant see how you can have a go at anyone at the club for that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on July 05, 2016, 09:09:59 PM
Why don't you get off the owners back?
He's done his best for the club he supports within his means,and always a profit at year end.
So what if he makes a great profit by selling its not a crime to make money you know.
He won't sell us down the river,as usual he will do his very best for WBA.
Stop knocking the guy eh.

Please don't kid yourself, he doesn't care about this club. All he cares about is his bank balance.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 05, 2016, 09:26:31 PM
Jeremy Peace has done a great job at the Albion but he will walk away a very wealthy man when he sells up, if things improve it wont be through ambition shown by the club it'll be more a stroke of luck. from a fans point of view we've become steady eddie where survival will be seen as job done. if the figures quoted are anywhere near the truth about Peace wanting £150m + isn't it overvalued.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 05, 2016, 09:31:50 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Peace buy majority control of the club with a loan leveraged on it and used the clubs profits to then pay back the loan his investor, i.e. put not a single penny in to acquire our football club? The same strategy used by the glazers a decade later. We don't know what he is looking for, £150m to £200m is rumoured in the press. If we are not sold this summer despite the low value of the pound and all interest in the prem then I think it's a fair conclusion to draw that he has set the bar too high. More to the point there is clear tension between what is best for the club and the maximum money Peace can try to obtain for himself. Suppose the club is worth £150m, he could keep £100m and demand the remainder is put back into the club, which don't forget is still £100m out for no investment in. I will eat my hat if that happens.

It is not in doubt that he has managed the club well but let's not also forget his annual £1m dividend to himself so he is paid handsomely for doing his job. On a day to day level I think we have every right to be peeved with the failure to lower match-day prices (not matching the £30 away fan ceiling this year was pathetic), the lack of ambition to redevelop the Halfords and the general refusal to take any calculated risk to try to kick the club on.

I don't see how we can improve any further under his handbrake chairmanship so the sooner we are sold onto an investor with deep pockets and some ambition the better. In truth we went stale about three years ago. A few murals around the BRE won't cut it.

The bottom line is if he holds out for the maximum sale price and takes all the money with him then he is putting his own interest before the football club. I'm glad he has managed our club as a business so we are financially secure but I won't applaud a sale that doesn't leave something behind. Be interesting to see what happens this summer. I suspect we will not be sold, as the chairman doesn't strike me as someone willing to be flexible or is easy to deal with. Hope I'm proved wrong.

Very good post, just a couple of things though. You are quite right JP, allegedly took out a loan using the assets of the FC as collateral, & then used the profit to pay back the loan. But wasn't it shrewd buying of Players & employment of Managers/Coaches that helped him to realise that profit, & wasn't it the development of the Walsall Road training ground & other improvements in infrastructure that helped us to attract better players.

Our wage bill in 2012 was £50 million & our current Head Coach is reputedly earning £1.7 million a year. I'm ready to be corrected, but it's my understanding that the dividend of £1 million per year is in fact a salary. I don't begrudge him that one bit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 05, 2016, 09:46:25 PM
Re Peace salary / divided of £1m year - I don't disagree he has more than earned that and recognise the development of the club under him. The wider point I was getting at was the tension between maximising his personal gain and the best outcome for the club under any potential sale. That is a balancing act and a decision he has to make - be nice to see him show some leeway on his own huge return (which it will be in any circumstance) and not just try to extract the highest bid. What if buyer A offers £120m and £150m investment in the club and buyer B offers £150m and £75m investment in the club? Anyone confident enough to predict he takes the first option?

If I'm scoring his stewardship today then it's 7.5/10. It will be dispiriting if we do not have a takeover this summer and a billionaire buys wolves out. That said I do not want to get ahead of myself with doom and gloom when we are speculating. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 05, 2016, 10:04:18 PM
Very good post, just a couple of things though. You are quite right JP, allegedly took out a loan using the assets of the FC as collateral, & then used the profit to pay back the loan. But wasn't it shrewd buying of Players & employment of Managers/Coaches that helped him to realise that profit, & wasn't it the development of the Walsall Road training ground & other improvements in infrastructure that helped us to attract better players.

Our wage bill in 2012 was £50 million & our current Head Coach is reputedly earning £1.7 million a year. I'm ready to be corrected, but it's my understanding that the dividend of £1 million per year is in fact a salary. I don't begrudge him that one bit.
The only figure I can find was the AGM in 2014 where it was reported Peace was paid £1.19m. just sits wrong the way he accrued so many shares with little or no risk to his own personal money but will walk away with a fortune while life long shareholders were railroaded into selling, and lets not forget that after he acquired Paul Thompsons 20% he stated he didn't want to increase his shareholding because he wanted a widespread of shareholders in the company. he has systematically nibbled away (legally) but morally wrong at shareholders and now owns what? 88%. not bad for 13 years work.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 05, 2016, 10:04:51 PM
Re Peace salary / divided of £1m year - I don't disagree he has more than earned that and recognise the development of the club under him. The wider point I was getting at was the tension between maximising his personal gain and the best outcome for the club under any potential sale. That is a balancing act and a decision he has to make - be nice to see him show some leeway on his own huge return (which it will be in any circumstance) and not just try to extract the highest bid. What if buyer A offers £120m and £150m investment in the club and buyer B offers £150m and £75m investment in the club? Anyone confident enough to predict he takes the first option?

If I'm scoring his stewardship today then it's 7.5/10. It will be dispiriting if we do not have a takeover this summer and a billionaire buys wolves out. That said I do not want to get ahead of myself with doom and gloom when we are speculating. Time will tell.

I'm not sure it's the price that's the issue, It really depends on your opinion on the motive for buying a football club. For example you wouldn't buy one as a stand alone project to make money, there's a lot safer investments, even in these times. My own theory, Its a mixture of a tax sink, & an attempt to own a vehicle to promote your "empire" around the globe. If you look at the second part, there are 20 EPL clubs, let's say 10 have already got foreign owners, so there's ten opportunities for investment, as the number of available clubs become less, the opportunities become smaller, so the last man standing can name his price.
JP has a PhD in brinkmanship, the man's got nerves of steel,
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on July 05, 2016, 10:06:51 PM
Peace has done a fantastic job, I'd give him 10 out of 10.

But if he accepts that he can't take us forward then why can't he accept 100million thus giving him more options and more chance of us getting the correct buyer.

Whatever happens I do trust he will find the correct buyer, but if it's isn't this week then I think that's that for another year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 05, 2016, 10:10:24 PM
I think people are missing the point here. Villa have been taken over by a very wealthy owner,if Wolves are taken over they could,and i say could,have the second richest owner in the country.
I will admit Peace has done well for us considering he hasn't that sort of money.
But we would have been sold before either of them had he not been asking such a ridiculous price.
His interest in us as always been on the financial side, and not the playing side which he sees as secondary importance.
Football is all about winning games,and being entertained, especially if you have a superb stadium to play in.
His promises about the redevlopment of the ground and selling the club  have been white lies.
If he did have the clubs best interest at heart,and he has admitted himself that he cannot finance himself to take us farther, he should have put a realistic price on us.
But his greed,and it is greed, will see us miss the boat again and be the poor relation West Midland club.
Yes we are the only West Midland club in the prem...for now. But things happen very quickly in football.......unless Jeremy Peace is involved in negotiations. ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 05, 2016, 10:20:35 PM
The only figure I can find was the AGM in 2014 where it was reported Peace was paid £1.19m. just sits wrong the way he accrued so many shares with little or no risk to his own personal money but will walk away with a fortune while life long shareholders were railroaded into selling, and lets not forget that after he acquired Paul Thompsons 20% he stated he didn't want to increase his shareholding because he wanted a widespread of shareholders in the company. he has systematically nibbled away (legally) but morally wrong at shareholders and now owns what? 88%. not bad for 13 years work.

There was a risk to his personal money, let's say he borrowed £10 million using the assets as collateral, He would have factored paying that back over say 5years, Can't remember exactly when JP took control, but I first started going the year we beat Charlton to stay in the Championship, had we gone down we would have been in the third tier. JP took control about a year after that. As it happened we went from strength to strength under Megson, but had it gone the other way JP would have been in the Cacky.
If he does sell the small shareholders who are left will do very nicely, & I know it's not the value, it's the fact you can say you've got a share in you're home town Football Club, but this is essentially a finance topic, & there aint no sentiment in business I'm afraid
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: saltnshake on July 05, 2016, 10:28:42 PM
Peace has done a fantastic job, I'd give him 10 out of 10.

But if he accepts that he can't take us forward then why can't he accept 100million thus giving him more options and more chance of us getting the correct buyer.

Whatever happens I do trust he will find the correct buyer, but if it's isn't this week then I think that's that for another year.
That's the problem i have with Peace up until 3 years ago he did a great job but all the decisions he has made since then have been about  putting the club in a position to be sold we have made nearly £30 million in profits which doesn't really benefit anyone apart from him and the tax man, your right about the price of the club if he really cared about us he would be selling it a really good price as what ever money he gets will all be profit as he has not put a penny of his own money into this club, but as he has proved with the ticket prices this season he cares more about money than any thing else.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on July 05, 2016, 10:32:21 PM
To buy the club he took a loan from Barclays using the club as collateral. The football club then paid the loan back. JP hasn't risked a penny of his own money, he has cheated small shareholders (who saved the club from going bust) layered the shares in holding companies and they say you can't make money from football
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 05, 2016, 10:39:32 PM
To buy the club he took a loan from Barclays using the club as collateral. The football club then paid the loan back. JP hasn't risked a penny of his own money, he has cheated small shareholders (who saved the club from going bust) layered the shares in holding companies and they say you can't make money from football

That's simply not true.

There is nothing wrong with buying a business with loans, it is quite a common practice in the world of investing and as others have said, he will have risked some of his own personal wealth as part of the collateral.

He hasn't cheated any of the shareholders either. He offered to buy their shares and many accepted. As it happens, 12% still own their shares. It's not like he put a gun to their head.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 05, 2016, 10:46:31 PM
Has always put number one first which isn't club, the amount of money he wants is in my humble opinion ridiculous. No wonder there is no interest, realistically the maximum price should be no more than 80 million which would be a handsome return on his investment of zero pounds
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 05, 2016, 10:53:19 PM
That's simply not true.

There is nothing wrong with buying a business with loans, it is quite a common practice in the world of investing and as others have said, he will have risked some of his own personal wealth as part of the collateral.

He hasn't cheated any of the shareholders either. He offered to buy their shares and many accepted. As it happens, 12% still own their shares. It's not like he put a gun to their head.
trust me , as a former small shareholder it wasn't as simple as that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on July 05, 2016, 10:55:19 PM
That's simply not true.

There is nothing wrong with buying a business with loans, it is quite a common practice in the world of investing and as others have said, he will have risked some of his own personal wealth as part of the collateral.

He hasn't cheated any of the shareholders either. He offered to buy their shares and many accepted. As it happens, 12% still own their shares. It's not like he put a gun to their head.

I didn't say he did anything wrong but I would question the morality. As for the shareholders yes he did put a gun to their head they had to how shall we put it 'round their shares up 'eg- spend their money or sell to him .... Nice way to treat fellow fans that is if he is really a fan
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 05, 2016, 10:56:03 PM
I went to the trouble a year or so ago of posting comprehensive details around Peace's shares, other shareholders, the structure of how the old and new shares worked and posted it here. But STILL some people spout garbage about Peace and his 'despicable' seizing of control of the club.

The worst mistruth is the one where he apparently stole shares from the poor small shareholders. I was a shareholder under the old system, and I upgraded my shares to a new share. He gave shareholders the option to upgrade to a new A share or money to sell. In doing so he has raised the value of those individual shares to much more than anyone purchased them for. If you didn't have the money to 'upgrade' you were offered far more than you bought them for, and in the space of two years the new shares have increased in value 4/5 times over. And by 'overpricing' the club and 'asking too much' he's also elevated the worth of shares he doesn't own - meaning the 'little shareholders' that remain have even more value.

So unless you're a current shareholder, have been through the company's share holdings or are Jeremy Peace himself, stop making slanderous claims. EVERYTHING has been done above board, as would be done in any business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnp on July 05, 2016, 11:01:11 PM
Baggie82 summed it up perfectly for me . It's 60 years since I first supported the club ; never posted before but feel strongly that Peace could take £50 million pounds for himself , expand Halfords Lane as promised , fill the growing with far cheaper tickets and leave that as a legacy .He is holding the club back for personal gain . For a number of years I've funded family season tickets and given up other things to do so . This season none of my 7 season tickets of last year will be bought . Brighton and Hove Albion , amongst a growing number of clubs now have a higher capacity . With the right price structure our ground would be full . Peace now is the problem , not the answer . Personal greed .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on July 05, 2016, 11:02:16 PM
I went to the trouble a year or so ago of posting comprehensive details around Peace's shares, other shareholders, the structure of how the old and new shares worked and posted it here. But STILL some people spout garbage about Peace and his 'despicable' seizing of control of the club.

The worst mistruth is the one where he apparently stole shares from the poor small shareholders. I was a shareholder under the old system, and I upgraded my shares to a new share. He gave shareholders the option to upgrade to a new A share or money to sell. In doing so he has raised the value of those individual shares to much more than anyone purchased them for. If you didn't have the money to 'upgrade' you were offered far more than you bought them for, and in the space of two years the new shares have increased in value 4/5 times over. And by 'overpricing' the club and 'asking too much' he's also elevated the worth of shares he doesn't own - meaning the 'little shareholders' that remain have even more value.

So unless you're a current shareholder, have been through the company's share holdings or are Jeremy Peace himself, stop making slanderous claims. EVERYTHING has been done above board, as would be done in any business.

No where have I've slandered him nor have I claimed he has done anything illegal, I used to be able to study the accounts when we was listed but your rosy assessment of how the business was conducted you failed to mention the people who could not afford the cost and did want to sell. Now are you also telling me the loan to buy the club JP payed this off himself ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 05, 2016, 11:12:11 PM
I went to the trouble a year or so ago of posting comprehensive details around Peace's shares, other shareholders, the structure of how the old and new shares worked and posted it here. But STILL some people spout garbage about Peace and his 'despicable' seizing of control of the club.

The worst mistruth is the one where he apparently stole shares from the poor small shareholders. I was a shareholder under the old system, and I upgraded my shares to a new share. He gave shareholders the option to upgrade to a new A share or money to sell. In doing so he has raised the value of those individual shares to much more than anyone purchased them for. If you didn't have the money to 'upgrade' you were offered far more than you bought them for, and in the space of two years the new shares have increased in value 4/5 times over. And by 'overpricing' the club and 'asking too much' he's also elevated the worth of shares he doesn't own - meaning the 'little shareholders' that remain have even more value.

So unless you're a current shareholder, have been through the company's share holdings or are Jeremy Peace himself, stop making slanderous claims. EVERYTHING has been done above board, as would be done in any business.
And what happened to those who didn't have money to upgrade but didn't want to sell?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 05, 2016, 11:46:38 PM
And what happened to those who didn't have money to upgrade but didn't want to sell?

They were given a sum of money considerably more than they bought them for. It wasn't that expensive to upgrade. I was 19 at the time and managed it. The increased share price then meant that the clubs shareholdings were reflective of the massive change in the value of the club from when the original shares were issued. It also increased the revenue of the club with more money brought in through share purchases and that has been funnelled through the club.

I get some people are drunk off that shareholders were 'forced to sell' their shares but considering the financial package offered to shareholders at the time and a couple years ago, the financial gain was extremely generous. I post fairly regular updates on the S4A shareholder meetings for those who are interested - I assume those upset about losing their shares were regular attendees at shareholder meetings? I get why some people may see this as some sort of immoral travesty, but shares are part and parcel of a business. The sentimental value of them is, unfortunately of little concern to anyone. The club is run as a business, it's shares are distributed, bought and sold as a business, and the ownership of said shares is, as with everything else, a business matter. Wanting to 'own' a small part of that business for sentimental reasons is unfortunately outweighed by those who actually run the business. Sadly the fact of the matter is that whilst owning shares is nice to say you have, they aren't memorabilia and will always be treated as assets to be traded and bought by businesses.

By all means, if you want a share that badly you can still purchase them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 06, 2016, 12:35:12 AM
No where have I've slandered him nor have I claimed he has done anything illegal, I used to be able to study the accounts when we was listed but your rosy assessment of how the business was conducted you failed to mention the people who could not afford the cost and did want to sell. Now are you also telling me the loan to buy the club JP payed this off himself ?

I'm not Jeremy Peace so I don't know the intricate ins and outs of the accounts, so for a start I'll request you give me the benefit of the doubt over MY understanding of how deals like this are done:

West Bromwich Albion Holdings - the company that JP is Chairman of has the loan with Barclays. This loan (apparently £10m, I'm going off what you guys say) will therefore be on Holdings and their fixed and tangible assets will be collateral. As far as I can tell, Holdings owns the ground, training ground, other properties and other assets to a tune of about £40m. The COMPANY WBA Holdings is liable for this loan, not Peace himself. With £40m+ in fixed and tangible assets, the loan was approved in the company's name.

With the dissolution of the previous company WBA Holdings in 2013, the assets held were purchased by the new co (confusingly called WBA Holdings) which would be purchased with funds not tied into shares - conceivably Peace's (or other investors in the company) own money. This would then mean all assets that the loan was taken out against would be purchased and owned, properly and legally by Holdings, whose majority shareholder is Jeremy Peace. He HAS put his own money into the club through three different company's (both parent company and subsidiaries). However I'd hasten to add that Jeremey Peace as an individual is not where you need to look for the details of these financial workings - his company WBA Holdings is and the two aren't interchangeable. The complexity of this all is also evidence that people can't just bandy around rubbish like Peace stole control of the club.

Either way, regardless of if you want to stick to this story that Peace took out £10m and wrestled the club from the grasps of the honest fan, its not 'him' who owns that loan but a company he is main shareholder for. The company is good for the £10m + interest on the loan and therefore, indirectly, Holdings can use the loan to purchase shares in Group, knowing that the COMPANY is good for the loan payments. Everyone needs to disassociate themselves with Peace acting as an individual and WBA holdings as a business entity which has been conducting these deals. Business and corporate dealings are far more complicated than people are making them seem by treating this as a sole individual acting and not a business. Until you can see that 'Jeremy Peace' and 'a company with £40m worth of assets, headed up by Jeremy Peace' aren't even remotely similar, the sooner you'll realise there's absolutely no wrongdoing, legally or morally, at any point.

So stop beilieving any old rubbish thrown about, learn some corporate law, realise this is all legal and isn't some individual stealing the club from the fans, and accept that this is business done legally and right.

Oh and those spouting off about Peace's wage, before 2013 he earnt less than £120k a year from the club. So we can all stop with the stories that he's stolen a wage for years, he went 9 years earning next to nothing for a high level director in a company making tens of millions. But suppose that doesn't fit the evil Mr Scrooge narrative.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on July 06, 2016, 07:15:22 AM
I'm not Jeremy Peace so I don't know the intricate ins and outs of the accounts, so for a start I'll request you give me the benefit of the doubt over MY understanding of how deals like this are done:

West Bromwich Albion Holdings - the company that JP is Chairman of has the loan with Barclays. This loan (apparently £10m, I'm going off what you guys say) will therefore be on Holdings and their fixed and tangible assets will be collateral. As far as I can tell, Holdings owns the ground, training ground, other properties and other assets to a tune of about £40m. The COMPANY WBA Holdings is liable for this loan, not Peace himself. With £40m+ in fixed and tangible assets, the loan was approved in the company's name.

With the dissolution of the previous compayny WBA Holdings in 2013, the assets held were purchased by the new co (confusingly called WBA Holdings) which would be purchased with funds not tied into shares - conceivably Peace's (or other investors in the company) own money. This would then mean all assets that the loan was taken out against would be purchased and owned, properly and legally by Holdings, whose majority shareholder is Jeremy Peace. He HAS put his own money into the club through three different company's (both parent company and subsidiaries). However I'd hasten to add that Jeremey Peace as an individual is not where you need to look for the details of these financial workings - his company WBA Holdings is and the two aren't interchangeable. The complexity of this all is also evidence that people can't just bandy around rubbish like Peace stole control of the club.

Either way, regardless of if you want to stick to this story that Peace took out £10m and wrestled the club from the grasps of the honest fan, its not 'him' who owns that loan but a company he is main shareholder for. The company is good for the £10m + interest on the loan and therefore, indirectly, Holdings can use the loan to purchase shares in Group, knowing that the COMPANY is good for the loan payments. Everyone needs to disassociate themselves with Peace acting as an individual and WBA holdings as a business entity which has been conducting these deals. Business and corporate dealings are far more complicated than people are making them seem by treating this as a sole individual acting and not a business. Until you can see that 'Jeremy Peace' and 'a company with £40m worth of assets, headed up by Jeremy Peace' aren't even remotely similar, the sooner you'll realise there's absolutely no wrongdoing, legally or morally, at any point.

So stop beilieving any old rubbish thrown about, learn some corporate law, realise this is all legal and isn't some individual stealing the club from the fans, and accept that this is business done legally and right.

Oh and those spouting off about Peace's wage, before 2013 he earnt less than £120k a year from the club. So we can all stop with the stories that he's stolen a wage for years, he went 9 years earning next to nothing for a high level director in a company making tens of millions. But suppose that doesn't fit the evil Mr Scrooge narrative.

Again I have never said he has done anything illegal and I do know how to read accounts thank you. Again you fail to mention who paid the loan off which enable JP oh I'm sorry the company he set up and owned most of the shares so let's say JP ... Who paid the loan off..... JP or the profits WBA football club made?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 06, 2016, 09:44:03 AM
Again I have never said he has done anything illegal and I do know how to read accounts thank you. Again you fail to mention who paid the loan off which enable JP oh I'm sorry the company he set up and owned most of the shares so let's say JP ... Who paid the loan off..... JP or the profits WBA football club made?

But the profits of the football clubs mostly belong to him anyway as shareholder
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 06, 2016, 09:52:57 AM
But the profits of the football clubs mostly belong to him anyway as shareholder

So what!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 06, 2016, 09:57:18 AM
Again I have never said he has done anything illegal and I do know how to read accounts thank you. Again you fail to mention who paid the loan off which enable JP oh I'm sorry the company he set up and owned most of the shares so let's say JP ... Who paid the loan off..... JP or the profits WBA football club made?

The loan hasn't been paid off. It's still there, with interest, in the accounts of WBA Holdings. The 'debts' of Holding are around £25m which includes that loan, though the company is still in profit to the tune of around £45m. I haven't got the end of year reports in front of me at the moment so can't give exact figures. Though the reason the company was issued the loan is because it was good for the value of the loan. Upon a successful sale of the club, the debts will be paid out of the money Holding receives for the sale. It is in Peace's interest to sell sooner rather than later due to the increase in interest on said loans.

And keep your sarcasm to yourself - my point about differentiating between Peace and the company WBA Holdings is valid when looking at these business transactions. You're claiming he's not put a penny of his own money into the club, when HE doesn't own the shares, a company he's funded does. Business to business shareholdings should be viewed differently to individual shareholdings - especially when the issue under scrutiny is where money is coming from.

If you know how to read accounts, I suggest you do so to find your answers, rather than take up my time explaining something that is quite clear.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 06, 2016, 10:04:23 AM
Its funny how 20 years ago, had we the option to have a chairman who runs the club at a profit, has turned our Academy into a Cat A Academy, rebuilt the Rainbow, given us a team packed with international players, established us as a Premier League side and we would have snapped your hands off or thought you were having a laugh or that pigs were flying.

Skip forward 20 years and people are calling JP in immoral man for what he has done and cant wait to get rid of him....absolutely ridiculous
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 06, 2016, 10:08:12 AM
The loan hasn't been paid off. It's still there, with interest, in the accounts of WBA Holdings. The 'debts' of Holding are around £25m which includes that loan, though the company is still in profit to the tune of around £45m. I haven't got the end of year reports in front of me at the moment so can't give exact figures. Though the reason the company was issued the loan is because it was good for the value of the loan. Upon a successful sale of the club, the debts will be paid out of the money Holding receives for the sale. It is in Peace's interest to sell sooner rather than later due to the increase in interest on said loans.

And keep your sarcasm to yourself - my point about differentiating between Peace and the company WBA Holdings is valid when looking at these business transactions. You're claiming he's not put a penny of his own money into the club, when HE doesn't own the shares, a company he's funded does. Business to business shareholdings should be viewed differently to individual shareholdings - especially when the issue under scrutiny is where money is coming from.

If you know how to read accounts, I suggest you do so to find your answers, rather than take up my time explaining something that is quite clear.

Think you & me should start a new lobby group Psalm " The league against sarcastic remarks"  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 06, 2016, 10:10:26 AM
Its funny how 20 years ago, had we the option to have a chairman who runs the club at a profit, has turned our Academy into a Cat A Academy, rebuilt the Rainbow, given us a team packed with international players, established us as a Premier League side and we would have snapped your hands off or thought you were having a laugh or that pigs were flying.

Skip forward 20 years and people are calling JP in immoral man for what he has done and cant wait to get rid of him....absolutely ridiculous

Until he rebuilds the Halfords, turns the Hawthorns into a 60,000 seater stadium, spends £40m on a single player, out of his own money, then wins the Champions League and sells us for £10 because he's a real fan, some won't be happy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 06, 2016, 10:14:23 AM
I think the man has done a great job for my beloved baggies whom I have supported for over 50 years has kept us in a stable position in the premier league for the last 7 years, long may this continue as I don't believe all the rummers of takeover talks but if it does happen he will leave us in a better condition than when he took over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on July 06, 2016, 10:29:08 AM
Its funny how 20 years ago, had we the option to have a chairman who runs the club at a profit, has turned our Academy into a Cat A Academy, rebuilt the Rainbow, given us a team packed with international players, established us as a Premier League side and we would have snapped your hands off or thought you were having a laugh or that pigs were flying.

Skip forward 20 years and people are calling JP in immoral man for what he has done and cant wait to get rid of him....absolutely ridiculous

We have come a long way in 20 years, however how much progress have we made in the last five?

JP deserves credit for where we are now but he also deserves criticism for where we are now. I am convinced we will end up regretting not pushing on and progressing the club further than where we are now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 06, 2016, 10:31:38 AM
We have come a long way in 20 years, however how much progress have we made in the last five?

JP deserves credit for where we are now but he also deserves criticism for where we are now. I am convinced we will end up regretting not pushing on and progressing the club further than where we are now.

In the last 5 years we have gone from a perennial yoyo side to being an established Prem side

I think our last 3 managers prior to Pulis have been poor decisions granted but to think we haven't progressed as a club in 5 years doesnt wash with me
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on July 06, 2016, 10:38:44 AM
We have come a long way in 20 years, however how much progress have we made in the last five?

JP deserves credit for where we are now but he also deserves criticism for where we are now. I am convinced we will end up regretting not pushing on and progressing the club further than where we are now.

We're now a stable Premier League side.

The first half a season after we got promoted we were OK, we went forward massively under Roy and then did our best to get ourselves relegated under Clarke, Mel and Irvine, only in the last 18 months have we regained our composure.

Arguably if it hadn't of been for the two and a half years of utter madness involving Clarke, Mel and Irvine we would be a lot further along in our progression. What level of accountability you lay with Peace for this is up to you - however losing Hodgson and Ashworth at the same time would scupper any side they were that vital.

As for the takeover, is this thread for a discussion r.e. the prospective buyer or are we all just having an arguement about JP? You can't half tell it's been a slow summer so far.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 06, 2016, 10:41:55 AM
I've wondered whether it would be great if Peace remained but with a new backer pumping money in. However, is Peace like Arsene Wenger in terms of club owners? He's done amazing things in the past but has probably come as far as he can. If someone pumps in more money, I'm not sure he'd know how to play that game i.e. running the Albion with lots of someone else's money?

Either way, his legacy will be fantastic for this club - compare how we've been run, what we've achieved without outside investment compared to many clubs (even our once illustrious neighbours who've had periods of being bankrolled and still not punched their weight).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 06, 2016, 11:02:02 AM
Think you & me should start a new lobby group Psalm " The league against sarcastic remarks"  :)

the " league for overly sensitive chaps " would be more accurate, ;D

waits for a self fulfilling prophecy to occur .....  ;)


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 06, 2016, 12:36:06 PM
anyone a share holder on here
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boing_boing68 on July 06, 2016, 01:10:27 PM
I've wondered whether it would be great if Peace remained but with a new backer pumping money in. However, is Peace like Arsene Wenger in terms of club owners? He's done amazing things in the past but has probably come as far as he can. If someone pumps in more money, I'm not sure he'd know how to play that game i.e. running the Albion with lots of someone else's money?

Either way, his legacy will be fantastic for this club - compare how we've been run, what we've achieved without outside investment compared to many clubs (even our once illustrious neighbours who've had periods of being bankrolled and still not punched their weight).

It wouldn't really work though because if someone is prepared to pump loads of money into the club then they will want to be seen as the owner and it to be his club which then doesn't leave a place for Peace.

For what it's worth, I really like Jeremy Peace and think he has been brilliant for our club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 06, 2016, 01:10:56 PM
the " league for overly sensitive chaps " would be more accurate, ;D

waits for a self fulfilling prophecy to occur .....  ;)

Trying to assess inflection and tone on a message board is a minefield, I suspect your group is a little closer to the mark  ;) :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 06, 2016, 01:12:09 PM
Can someone tell me the point of all this please?
Because anyone who understands business and can read p/ loss accounts gets it.
Why this continuous chatter about jp is really beyond me.
Don't some of our fans have nothing better to do with their time instead of this constant nitpicking.
What's the point of it all.
The man has done a great job at WBA I for one won't knock him.
It's so easy to criticise from afar,you try it,its not easy.
I perfectly understand the difficulties in owning/ running a company I had 2 and employed over 200 people it's hard its tough creating work for people you worry about them you know them you feel for them and in the end it almost kills you.
That doesn't seem to matter though does it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 06, 2016, 01:12:16 PM
We are still a club who's only ambition is to stay in Prem after seven seasons. JP has carried on the good work that was started by Paul Thomson but by being more cautious and with the new money being pumped into league Jeromy has to either sell or change his tact and put debt on club just to compete with transfers and wages
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 06, 2016, 01:15:18 PM
We are still a club who's only ambition is to stay in Prem after seven seasons. JP has carried on the good work that was started by Paul Thomson but by being more cautious and with the new money being pumped into league Jeromy has to either sell or change his tact and put debt on club just to compete with transfers and wages

If you're not Liverpool, Man United, Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea or Spurs, that is still your aim at the start of every season. Our 'ambition' is different to our aim, the ambition is repeating top ten, but so is 14 other teams for essentially 4 free places.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on July 06, 2016, 02:08:45 PM
Its funny how 20 years ago, had we the option to have a chairman who runs the club at a profit, has turned our Academy into a Cat A Academy, rebuilt the Rainbow, given us a team packed with international players, established us as a Premier League side and we would have snapped your hands off or thought you were having a laugh or that pigs were flying.

Skip forward 20 years and people are calling JP in immoral man for what he has done and cant wait to get rid of him....absolutely ridiculous
Totally agreed. Some people are just never satisfied
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 06, 2016, 02:11:59 PM
We are still a club who's only ambition is to stay in Prem after seven seasons. JP has carried on the good work that was started by Paul Thomson but by being more cautious and with the new money being pumped into league Jeromy has to either sell or change his tact and put debt on club just to compete with transfers and wages

Paul Thompson stopped the rot and turned the tide

JP pushed us forward
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 06, 2016, 02:13:26 PM
Paul Thompson stopped the rot and turned the tide

JP pushed us forward


If it wernt for him we might have gone bust
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 06, 2016, 02:15:51 PM

If it wernt for him we might have gone bust

I know mate

he turned the tide for us, we was losing 60k a week or a month was it? The sales of Maresca helped us to stem the tide and turn a corner
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on July 06, 2016, 02:51:47 PM
Totally agreed. Some people are just never satisfied

I thought it was Thompson who rebuilt the Rainbow? I agree JP has been excellent overall but I question whether he is the man to take us forward. It is sad to see smaller clubs overtaking us - both on and off the pitch.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 06, 2016, 03:05:39 PM
I thought it was Thompson who rebuilt the Rainbow? I agree JP has been excellent overall but I question whether he is the man to take us forward. It is sad to see smaller clubs overtaking us - both on and off the pitch.


most definitley the poorest club in the premier, maybe Burnley
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 06, 2016, 04:11:43 PM
someone wake me up when they know whats going on.... because your all talking about things irrelevant!

Let me know when we've been takenover
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 06, 2016, 04:18:26 PM
I thought it was Thompson who rebuilt the Rainbow? I agree JP has been excellent overall but I question whether he is the man to take us forward. It is sad to see smaller clubs overtaking us - both on and off the pitch.

Some of those smaller clubs splashing money operate at a loss unlike us, and are one risky gamble away from having things crash down around them. At least you know with us we operate knowing that relegation wouldn't kill us.

It's natural to question if he's the man to take us forward, especially as he's admitted he's not, hence the desire to sell. People seem to think 'he's taken us as far as he can' is some sort of criticism of the guy and that he's trying to cling to power despite it not being best for the club - which is ridiculous when he's admitted it and is trying to sell.

He's may have taken us as far as he personally can, but that's a great achievement and to have him admit it proves that he knows his own limits.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 06, 2016, 04:36:54 PM
He should put a reasonable price on us, say £80m. If he wants £200m and not £80m what would you think is motives are for that, bearing in mind if someone did pay that for us,which i very much doubt, it would not allow them to spend on the team or the stadium. But of course we aren't interested in those are we, just the profit side of the game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on July 06, 2016, 04:51:18 PM
He should put a reasonable price on us, say £80m. If he wants £200m and not £80m what would you think is motives are for that, bearing in mind if someone did pay that for us,which i very much doubt, it would not allow them to spend on the team or the stadium. But of course we aren't interested in those are we, just the profit side of the game.


Answered your own question unfortunately in your last sentence. Greed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 06, 2016, 05:07:43 PM
He should put a reasonable price on us, say £80m. If he wants £200m and not £80m what would you think is motives are for that, bearing in mind if someone did pay that for us,which i very much doubt, it would not allow them to spend on the team or the stadium. But of course we aren't interested in those are we, just the profit side of the game.

So we are worth £4m more than Championship Villa? Ok mate. With the money in this league, selling for £80m is silly - especially considering that someone bought 50% of Everton for £85m. And where is this £200m figure coming from? You can't make up an arbitrary figure then call someone greedy because of it  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 06, 2016, 05:09:21 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-could-net-11574068

Don't know if this as been posted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 06, 2016, 05:14:47 PM
He should put a reasonable price on us, say £80m. If he wants £200m and not £80m what would you think is motives are for that, bearing in mind if someone did pay that for us,which i very much doubt, it would not allow them to spend on the team or the stadium. But of course we aren't interested in those are we, just the profit side of the game.

Would you sell your house with all the improvements you have made with a carefully attended garden for less than the valuation. It stays on the market for a year or so, the valuation doesn't fall, it fact it increases, but you stick to your price.
Your next door neighbour thinks you should sell at a lower price because he would like some new, perhaps richer neighbours and that sticking to the value of your house, thinks you're greedy

As the seller, do you drop your price to please him?


No of  course you don't, you want the best price
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 06, 2016, 05:26:39 PM
He should put a reasonable price on us, say £80m. If he wants £200m and not £80m what would you think is motives are for that, bearing in mind if someone did pay that for us,which i very much doubt, it would not allow them to spend on the team or the stadium. But of course we aren't interested in those are we, just the profit side of the game.

Like you would take a cut price on something you owned! This I had made the improvements and put the work in he has over the last 15 years I'd want as much as it is worth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 06, 2016, 05:53:18 PM
Would you sell your house with all the improvements you have made with a carefully attended garden for less than the valuation. It stays on the market for a year or so, the valuation doesn't fall, it fact it increases, but you stick to your price.
Your next door neighbour thinks you should sell at a lower price because he would like some new, perhaps richer neighbours and that sticking to the value of your house, think's you're greedy

As the seller, do you drop your price to please him?


No of  course you don't, you want the best price

Who's valuation is it though?

It's only worth as much as someone is willing to pay. Personally I think it is way over valued and JP will struggle to sell.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 06, 2016, 06:04:30 PM
Who's valuation is it though?

It's only worth as much as someone is willing to pay. Personally I think it is way over valued and JP will struggle to sell.

the Market decides the valuation, whatever we may think.

I think there are one or two accountants on here who would hazard a guess based on asset value and future income streams ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on July 06, 2016, 06:08:38 PM
JP brought the club as an investment the same as the glaziers at Man U except the loan has now been paid back. He will only sell at a price he wants which will be substantial as while we are in the greed leave we are one of a few clubs left which haven't been brought. Trophies don't matter just staying in the league hence why Pullis will remain here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 06, 2016, 06:13:01 PM
Who's valuation is it though?

It's only worth as much as someone is willing to pay. Personally I think it is way over valued and JP will struggle to sell.

What valuation are you basing this off? Media speculation? As far as I've seen there's been no formal asking price for the club, certainly none that Peace has made public. Figures of £180-200m are touted by fans but nobody knows what has been offered - you have to remember we already entered into one period of exclusivity last season so someone met JP's valuation, which by your reasoning means the club isn't priced too highly to attract interest.

That said you won't find many clubs for sale that are profitable, have no debts to pay off (Villa were bought for around £75m + assurances they could pay off £25m debt) and with guaranteed increases in income next season. You'd be surprised how much more businessmen are willing to pay if they don't have to sort out underlying messes upon purchase. I'd hazard a guess that the 88% controlling stake in the club would be worth £130-150m. Put into perspective £85m for 49.9% of Everton's shareholdings would suggest that's a viable figure.

But as others have suggested, we are worth whatever anyone would pay for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: macc_baggie on July 06, 2016, 06:36:46 PM
Something that occurred to me earlier.

If Jeremy valued the club at 80m, it means investors come from a broader pool. In essence, someone with less money could pay 80m for us, but then might not have the capital to do anymore than we currently do.

Setting the bar higher means the buyer is likely to have greater income streams from elsewhere, and would have greater capacity to support the club, especially if it all goes drastically wrong.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 06, 2016, 06:44:37 PM
What valuation are you basing this off? Media speculation? As far as I've seen there's been no formal asking price for the club, certainly none that Peace has made public. Figures of £180-200m are touted by fans but nobody knows what has been offered - you have to remember we already entered into one period of exclusivity last season so someone met JP's valuation, which by your reasoning means the club isn't priced too highly to attract interest.

That said you won't find many clubs for sale that are profitable, have no debts to pay off (Villa were bought for around £75m + assurances they could pay off £25m debt) and with guaranteed increases in income next season. You'd be surprised how much more businessmen are willing to pay if they don't have to sort out underlying messes upon purchase. I'd hazard a guess that the 88% controlling stake in the club would be worth £130-150m. Put into perspective £85m for 49.9% of Everton's shareholdings would suggest that's a viable figure.

But as others have suggested, we are worth whatever anyone would pay for us.
You seem the right person to ask this question, was or is there still a company called Kappa involved with WBA or Jeremy Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 06, 2016, 06:55:36 PM
Something that occurred to me earlier.

If Jeremy valued the club at 80m, it means investors come from a broader pool. In essence, someone with less money could pay 80m for us, but then might not have the capital to do anymore than we currently do.

Setting the bar higher means the buyer is likely to have greater income streams from elsewhere, and would have greater capacity to support the club, especially if it all goes drastically wrong.

Serious question! Why do you think anybody would want to buy a football club? Especially a ready made one like WBA? No businessman in their right mind would want to buy a football club as a stand alone way of making money, would they? There has to be easier ways of getting £1.2 million return.

I'm not sure how old JP is, but if he did sell, I could see him buying Leeds or Portsmouth & then using the WBA model to add value, but I just couldn't see anybody buying WBA without some other motive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: macc_baggie on July 06, 2016, 07:20:49 PM
Serious question! Why do you think anybody would want to buy a football club? Especially a ready made one like WBA? No businessman in their right mind would want to buy a football club as a stand alone way of making money, would they? There has to be easier ways of getting £1.2 million return.

I'm not sure how old JP is, but if he did sell, I could see him buying Leeds or Portsmouth & then using the WBA model to add value, but I just couldn't see anybody buying WBA without some other motive.

Good point, I was just thinking out loud!

I guess my point more was, if we sell for 80m we attract a group of investors with less disposable income. Ie someone with a net of say 750m may see that as a fun project, but if we retail at 200m, it might push the boundaries up to someone of 1b plus as an example.

I.e. we'd be a more expensive vanity project for a wealthier buyer - thus might have more money to pump into the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 06, 2016, 07:27:15 PM
Good point, I was just thinking out loud!

I guess my point more was, if we sell for 80m we attract a group of investors with less disposable income. Ie someone with a net of say 750m may see that as a fun project, but if we retail at 200m, it might push the boundaries up to someone of 1b plus as an example.

I.e. we'd be a more expensive vanity project for a wealthier buyer - thus might have more money to pump into the club

I can see your point, but without being disparaging to WBAFC, it ain't very glamorous is it? & TBH can't see many vanity projects post June 23rd.
IMO it's either got to be a tax sink or brand exposure, or a bit of both.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: macc_baggie on July 06, 2016, 07:33:52 PM
I can see your point, but without being disparaging to WBAFC, it ain't very glamorous is it? & TBH can't see many vanity projects post June 23rd.
IMO it's either got to be a tax sink or brand exposure, or a bit of both.

No it isn't, but "Premier League" is. I don't really think many of the owners are concerned about the name, as opposed to having a team in the prem. Before Man City were taken over, they were hardly a fashionable club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 06, 2016, 07:35:24 PM
No it isn't, but "Premier League" is. I don't really think many of the owners are concerned about the name, as opposed to having a team in the prem. Before Man City were taken over, they were hardly a fashionable club.

I guess we'll never know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 06, 2016, 07:36:24 PM
Why is everyone going on about net worth and how much should we be sold for, if and when were sold Peace will do it on his terms and will get the price he wants whatever that price is. I will be glad when all this speculation is over and were sold which will happen be it now or in the future so we can all get back to doing what we do best supporting the BAGGIES in the PREMIER LEAGUE, role on the new season looking forward to kiddi BOING BOING
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 06, 2016, 07:40:24 PM
No it isn't, but "Premier League" is. I don't really think many of the owners are concerned about the name, as opposed to having a team in the prem. Before Man City were taken over, they were hardly a fashionable club.

Neither were Chelsea, a yo-yo club with a lot of debt, Southamptom, Leicester were also up & down
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 06, 2016, 07:54:14 PM
is there any evidence this is happening or are these 90 pages just wishful thinking
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 06, 2016, 08:17:35 PM
is there any evidence this is happening or are these 90 pages just wishful thinking

No evidence 99% is speculation and statistics don't lie 8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 06, 2016, 08:18:44 PM
We won't be sold at that price. I don't think anyone would offer that for Chelsea let alone WBA.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 06, 2016, 08:34:48 PM
You seem the right person to ask this question, was or is there still a company called Kappa involved with WBA or Jeremy Peace.

Yup they own a large chunk of our shares (haven't got them in front of me but I think they own 20% of one of the subsidiary companies under the WBA Group parent company. Can find details later.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stokelad84 on July 06, 2016, 08:39:20 PM
We won't be sold at that price. I don't think anyone would offer that for Chelsea let alone WBA.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-worth-more-than-1bn-and-placed-ahead-of-chelsea-in-new-football-market-study-a2921371.html

Independent valuations from 12 months ago: £826m for Chelsea, £175m for West Brom.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 06, 2016, 08:52:22 PM
Slightly at a tangent, but here's an interesting web page.  showing the value of the squad. Leicester's squad value has increase from an alleged circa £40 million last season to a massive £140 million now. Not sure they've even bought a player yet

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/marktwerteverein/wettbewerb/GB1 (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/marktwerteverein/wettbewerb/GB1)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 06, 2016, 08:59:54 PM
Yup they own a large chunk of our shares (haven't got them in front of me but I think they own 20% of one of the subsidiary companies under the WBA Group parent company. Can find details later.
thanks for that, hadn't heard of kappa for a while.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 06, 2016, 09:10:31 PM
thanks for that, hadn't heard of kappa for a while.

Yeah I had to ask if it was the sportswear brand I hadn't heard from them in so long (it's not by the way, nor is it Smurfitt Kappa as other suggested). Kappa bought the shareholdings from Highfield Electronics Limited (Paul Thompsons company) in 2003 and have had them ever since - combined they made up the 50% shareholdings Peace needed to run the club back in 2003.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 06, 2016, 09:40:12 PM
Yeah I had to ask if it was the sportswear brand I hadn't heard from them in so long (it's not by the way, nor is it Smurfitt Kappa as other suggested). Kappa bought the shareholdings from Highfield Electronics Limited (Paul Thompsons company) in 2003 and have had them ever since - combined they made up the 50% shareholdings Peace needed to run the club back in 2003.
glad you cleared that up, I was going to ask :-[  this is the earliest I can find anything on kappa.
  http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/football-league/uncertainty-continues-at-west-bromwich-189278.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Peace
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 08, 2016, 03:32:54 PM
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-worth-more-than-1bn-and-placed-ahead-of-chelsea-in-new-football-market-study-a2921371.html

Independent valuations from 12 months ago: £826m for Chelsea, £175m for West Brom.

It's ok valuing something, but billionaires don't become billionaires by paying way of the odds for a risk, namely a West Midlands football club.
If they paid the asking price of £175m how long would it take them to recoup that, bearing in mind they would have to spend close on another £100m developing the ground and squad?
West Brom aren't a brand name like Man U or Chelsea, and neither are Stoke.
This price is all about one mans greed, if he really cared about the club he would sell us to someone who have the money to take us further, and pocket a cool £80m for his minimum outlay.

But no, he wants to become filthy rich at our expense. He sees us as the goose that lay's him golden eggs,he always has done.
His main income is from us,not Kappa.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on July 08, 2016, 04:09:40 PM
It's ok valuing something, but billionaires don't become billionaires by paying way of the odds for a risk, namely a West Midlands football club.
If they paid the asking price of £175m how long would it take them to recoup that, bearing in mind they would have to spend close on another £100m developing the ground and squad?
West Brom aren't a brand name like Man U or Chelsea, and neither are Stoke.
This price is all about one mans greed, if he really cared about the club he would sell us to someone who have the money to take us further, and pocket a cool £80m for his minimum outlay.

But no, he wants to become filthy rich at our expense. He sees us as the goose that lay's him golden eggs,he always has done.
His main income is from us,not Kappa.

Theres nothing to say Albion couldnt be though, a "brand" name/well known club. We have to accentuate our strengths. Only club, atleast for this season, from the West Midlands in the premier league - huge. Oneof the founding members of the football league - foreigners love history, lets play on it. Even the fact we have the word Albion in our name could be a selling point being that it conjures up images of a mythical past.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 08, 2016, 04:37:49 PM
It's ok valuing something, but billionaires don't become billionaires by paying way of the odds for a risk, namely a West Midlands football club.
If they paid the asking price of £175m how long would it take them to recoup that, bearing in mind they would have to spend close on another £100m developing the ground and squad?
West Brom aren't a brand name like Man U or Chelsea, and neither are Stoke.
This price is all about one mans greed, if he really cared about the club he would sell us to someone who have the money to take us further, and pocket a cool £80m for his minimum outlay.

But no, he wants to become filthy rich at our expense. He sees us as the goose that lay's him golden eggs,he always has done.

 His main income is from us,not Kappa.


He won't get rich on gate receipts and merchandise will he - that's what you contribute. You sound bitter that someone has the nouce, vision and skills to make more money than you.

Envy is a deadly sin  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 08, 2016, 05:49:58 PM
It's ok valuing something, but billionaires don't become billionaires by paying way of the odds for a risk, namely a West Midlands football club.
If they paid the asking price of £175m how long would it take them to recoup that, bearing in mind they would have to spend close on another £100m developing the ground and squad?
West Brom aren't a brand name like Man U or Chelsea, and neither are Stoke.
This price is all about one mans greed, if he really cared about the club he would sell us to someone who have the money to take us further, and pocket a cool £80m for his minimum outlay.

But no, he wants to become filthy rich at our expense. He sees us as the goose that lay's him golden eggs,he always has done.
His main income is from us,not Kappa.

Haha what a post. So many flaws in the argument it's not worth tearing it apart  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 08, 2016, 06:27:52 PM
He won't get rich on gate receipts and merchandise will he - that's what you contribute. You sound bitter that someone has the nouce, vision and skills to make more money than you.

Envy is a dealy sin  ;D

Not envious of him at all mate, just drunk off that he is feathering his nest with the money from our club, and leaving us to watch players of average ability, with a workman like manager.
The worst thing is some of our fans are agreeing with him for doing it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 08, 2016, 06:30:17 PM
Haha what a post. So many flaws in the argument it's not worth tearing it apart  :P

Or you don't know where to start?  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on July 08, 2016, 06:41:42 PM
I think this thread should be locked until we actually know something concrete, I'm
sick of waiting but it looks unlikely that we will be taken over this summer considering the date.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 08, 2016, 06:42:15 PM
Theres nothing to say Albion couldnt be though, a "brand" name/well known club. We have to accentuate our strengths. Only club, atleast for this season, from the West Midlands in the premier league - huge. Oneof the founding members of the football league - foreigners love history, lets play on it. Even the fact we have the word Albion in our name could be a selling point being that it conjures up images of a mythical past.

Totally agree, every word spoken. But a buyer would like to see what he is getting for his money. We could become all the things you say, but we aren't now,and it's now a buyer is interested in.
What he would see at this minute is a club that averages 25k for an home game, a third tier main stand and a team that has yo yoed and flirted with relegation for the past seven years.
Those are the cold hard facts that a buyer would investigate. What would i be getting for my money?
The Stan Cullis stand at Molineux still doesn't hold as many as the Brummie, but it looks impressive, and it is impressions that sell a business.
If Peace had gone ahead with his vision for our ground, a new West Stand and filling in the Millenium and Woodman corners then our stock would have risen considerably,whather or not we could fill the ground, it's all about impressions and imagination.
But at the end of the day that would have cost him money, the same as any half decent players we have been "eyeing" and "tracking", and we all know how much Mr Peace loves his money.
Don't get me wrong,there are far worse chairmen than ours, but thats their clubs problem not ours, i just don't look at him through rose tinted specs the way some of our fans do thats all.
I do understand where a lot are coming from, the dark days when we hadn't got two pennies to rub together, wolves fans gloating, because Jack had bought them.
I don't want those days back ever,but they could return sooner than we think with Peace's sheer stubborness and a price totally unrealistic. That's my grouse.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 08, 2016, 07:10:57 PM
Or you don't know where to start?  ;)

Oh go on then I will, you've twisted my arm.

1. You don't know what the asking price is but slam Peace for some arbitrary £200m figure pulled out of nowhere.

2. You claim new owners would need to spend £100m on team and ground. Remind me again why we need to expand the ground and why new owners would need to do that? Again a figure pulled out of thin air. Leicester spent less then us last summer and won the league. £28m to transform a team who barely escaped relegation, were favourites to go down, into league champions. Again not sure what influence Peace has on what future owners spend? If new owners come in and don't spend £100m is that his fault too?

3. You've ignored numerous people reminding you that Peace can sell for whatever he likes, as it's his business. Why would ANYONE sell something for less than its worth? He doesn't owe us ANYTHING. It's his business, the money the club makes from us fans is absolutely minuscule compared to money made from his stewardship and keeping us in the league. Our club makes £100m+ a year just by staying in the league - is it any wonder why the main aim of the club is to stay up? If the fans paid £100m for beautiful football, maybe that'd be the focus.

4. The 'feathering of the nest' you seem to think is so morally repugnant is no different to any business owner worldwide. Would you rather have a chairman with a tight but realistic and disciplined approach to finances or a nutcase who spanks hundreds of millions on any old rubbish. You completely ignore that for someone so 'greedy' he sure looks after other people (the clubs) money. As you've pointed out he's not spending his personal wealth but by god he spends like it's his own money. There are considerably more chairmen who'd spend someone else's money like it means nothing. We spent £32.5m last year on transfers and some went better then others. Newcastle spent £90m over two windows and struggled. Least he'll leave here with healthy finances rather than gamble, lose and then bugger off.

5. Please start looking at this situation for what it is - a business transaction and running of a business. Take your personal opinions out of this for a moment and acknowledge the difference in the club since 2003. Look at the teams that have come and gone around us due to poor business practices. And the one thing that really baffles me about your stance is that you obviously despise Peace but the guy has acknowledged he can't take us further and is looking to sell. He's received interest so obviously values us at a reasonable level, and will, in the grand scheme of things, will be leaving soon.

And guess what? Him making money from the sale HAS NO BEARING ON THE CLUBS FINANCES. He sells HIS shares, his company. The clubs accounts don't change. He doesn't empty the vault into duffel bags, launch them into the back of his Merc and ride into the sunset with all our cash. What he's selling is his controlling shares - like selling the keys to your house, furniture and all. Nothing leaves with him, he leaves the last 13 years of his work to someone else. So detach yourself from the idea that evil dictator Peace is killing us - he's looked after the club, kept us from playing silly buggers and joining the greed league and will pass the torch.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 08, 2016, 07:12:36 PM
Impressions don't sell businesses, Chelsea were no better than us untill Abramovic, Man City were no better than us, had an old decrepid ground but had the fortune to get a new ground thanks to the Commonwealth Games and attract the odd Arab billionaire or so,
We are better than both of them as we don't have huge debt and we have great supporters like you and me ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 08, 2016, 07:20:03 PM
Oh go on then I will, you've twisted my arm.

1. You don't know what the asking price is but slam Peace for some arbitrary £200m figure pulled out of nowhere.

2. You claim new owners would need to spend £100m on team and ground. Remind me again why we need to expand the ground and why new owners would need to do that? Again a figure pulled out of thin air. Leicester spent less then us last summer and won the league. £28m to transform a team who barely escaped relegation, were favourites to go down, into league champions. Again not sure what influence Peace has on what future owners spend? If new owners come in and don't spend £100m is that his fault too?

3. You've ignored numerous people reminding you that Peace can sell for whatever he likes, as it's his business. Why would ANYONE sell something for less than its worth? He doesn't owe us ANYTHING. It's his business, the money the club makes from us fans is absolutely minuscule compared to money made from his stewardship and keeping us in the league. Our club makes £100m+ a year just by staying in the league - is it any wonder why the main aim of the club is to stay up? If the fans paid £100m for beautiful football, maybe that'd be the focus.

4. The 'feathering of the nest' you seem to think is so morally repugnant is no different to any business owner worldwide. Would you rather have a chairman with a tight but realistic and disciplined approach to finances or a nutcase who spanks hundreds of millions on any old rubbish. You completely ignore that for someone so 'greedy' he sure looks after other people (the clubs) money. As you've pointed out he's not spending his personal wealth but by god he spends like it's his own money. There are considerably more chairmen who'd spend someone else's money like it means nothing. We spent £32.5m last year on transfers and some went better then others. Newcastle spent £90m over two windows and struggled. Least he'll leave here with healthy finances rather than gamble, lose and then bugger off.

5. Please start looking at this situation for what it is - a business transaction and running of a business. Take your personal opinions out of this for a moment and acknowledge the difference in the club since 2003. Look at the teams that have come and gone around us due to poor business practices. And the one thing that really baffles me about your stance is that you obviously despise Peace but the guy has acknowledged he can't take us further and is looking to sell. He's received interest so obviously values us at a reasonable level, and will, in the grand scheme of things, will be leaving soon.

And guess what? Him making money from the sale HAS NO BEARING ON THE CLUBS FINANCES. He sells HIS shares, his company. The clubs accounts don't change. He doesn't empty the vault into duffel bags, launch them into the back of his Merc and ride into the sunset with all our cash. What he's selling is his controlling shares - like selling the keys to your house, furniture and all. Nothing leaves with him, he leaves the last 13 years of his work to someone else. So detach yourself from the idea that evil dictator Peace is killing us - he's looked after the club, kept us from playing silly buggers and joining the greed league and will pass the torch.

Great post, I just couldn't be ar**d to argue with those who don't want to see, but would spend other peoples money in a flash and sell their assets and hard work at a knock down price
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 08, 2016, 07:20:36 PM
Well, we are never all going to agree on this, so best to leave it now and see what happens.
It has gone very quiet on the takeover business, i don't think it will happen this year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 08, 2016, 07:25:09 PM
Well, we are never all going to agree on this, so best to leave it now and see what happens.
It has gone very quiet on the takeover business, i don't think it will happen this year.

Indeed, quiet doesn't mean nothing is happening just the franzied rumour mill and speculation has gone to sleep
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 08, 2016, 07:32:16 PM
Well, we are never all going to agree on this, so best to leave it now and see what happens.
It has gone very quiet on the takeover business, i don't think it will happen this year.

Oh by all means no hard feelings felt and happy to agree to disagree!

I'm honestly not sure anyone has any clue about takeover talk anyway - seen nothing concrete even suggesting we are close, and the small tidbits that has been reported still include mad speculation that the richest man in China is a possibility. I'm still unsure how buying English teams makes China a global name for football. I'm hoping the China experiment ruins Midlands football and we don't get involved.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 08, 2016, 08:01:59 PM
To be honest i would be apprehensive about Chinese owners. We all know what happened to Cardiff.
Abramovich was a one off and since then Arabs,Yanks and the Chinese have snapped up football clubs like they are going out of fashion.
My other worry is,that if all the clubs have rich owners the unequal playing field will become more unequal for clubs like us.
Catch 22.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 08, 2016, 09:09:00 PM
Quote from: divinewind on Today at 06:30:17 PM
Quote
Or you don't know where to start?  ;)



Oh go on then I will, you've twisted my arm.

1. You don't know what the asking price is but slam Peace for some arbitrary £200m figure pulled out of nowhere.

2. You claim new owners would need to spend £100m on team and ground. Remind me again why we need to expand the ground and why new owners would need to do that? Again a figure pulled out of thin air. Leicester spent less then us last summer and won the league. £28m to transform a team who barely escaped relegation, were favourites to go down, into league champions. Again not sure what influence Peace has on what future owners spend? If new owners come in and don't spend £100m is that his fault too?

3. You've ignored numerous people reminding you that Peace can sell for whatever he likes, as it's his business. Why would ANYONE sell something for less than its worth? He doesn't owe us ANYTHING. It's his business, the money the club makes from us fans is absolutely minuscule compared to money made from his stewardship and keeping us in the league. Our club makes £100m+ a year just by staying in the league - is it any wonder why the main aim of the club is to stay up? If the fans paid £100m for beautiful football, maybe that'd be the focus.

4. The 'feathering of the nest' you seem to think is so morally repugnant is no different to any business owner worldwide. Would you rather have a chairman with a tight but realistic and disciplined approach to finances or a nutcase who spanks hundreds of millions on any old rubbish. You completely ignore that for someone so 'greedy' he sure looks after other people (the clubs) money. As you've pointed out he's not spending his personal wealth but by god he spends like it's his own money. There are considerably more chairmen who'd spend someone else's money like it means nothing. We spent £32.5m last year on transfers and some went better then others. Newcastle spent £90m over two windows and struggled. Least he'll leave here with healthy finances rather than gamble, lose and then bugger off.

5. Please start looking at this situation for what it is - a business transaction and running of a business. Take your personal opinions out of this for a moment and acknowledge the difference in the club since 2003. Look at the teams that have come and gone around us due to poor business practices. And the one thing that really baffles me about your stance is that you obviously despise Peace but the guy has acknowledged he can't take us further and is looking to sell. He's received interest so obviously values us at a reasonable level, and will, in the grand scheme of things, will be leaving soon.

And guess what? Him making money from the sale HAS NO BEARING ON THE CLUBS FINANCES. He sells HIS shares, his company. The clubs accounts don't change. He doesn't empty the vault into duffel bags, launch them into the back of his Merc and ride into the sunset with all our cash. What he's selling is his controlling shares - like selling the keys to your house, furniture and all. Nothing leaves with him, he leaves the last 13 years of his work to someone else. So detach yourself from the idea that evil dictator Peace is killing us - he's looked after the club, kept us from playing silly buggers and joining the greed league and will pass the torch.

Haven't we just done nearly 200 pages on this very theme on another thread?  :)

Can I ask you a question Divinewind? It's a question nobody seems to have the answer to. Why would anyone want to buy a football club at all? & why West Bromwich Albion in particular?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 08, 2016, 11:03:01 PM
To make themselves a little profit year on year... And to help promote their own brand/name to a bigger, world wide audience which will also help bring in a bigger revenue to their own brand/name?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion07 on July 08, 2016, 11:12:57 PM
To be honest i would be apprehensive about Chinese owners. We all know what happened to Cardiff.
Abramovich was a one off and since then Arabs,Yanks and the Chinese have snapped up football clubs like they are going out of fashion.
My other worry is,that if all the clubs have rich owners the unequal playing field will become more unequal for clubs like us.
Catch 22.
Vincent Tan is Malaysian.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 09, 2016, 10:41:16 AM
It's ok valuing something, but billionaires don't become billionaires by paying way of the odds for a risk, namely a West Midlands football club.
If they paid the asking price of £175m how long would it take them to recoup that, bearing in mind they would have to spend close on another £100m developing the ground and squad?
West Brom aren't a brand name like Man U or Chelsea, and neither are Stoke.
This price is all about one mans greed, if he really cared about the club he would sell us to someone who have the money to take us further, and pocket a cool £80m for his minimum outlay.

But no, he wants to become filthy rich at our expense. He sees us as the goose that lay's him golden eggs,he always has done.
His main income is from us,not Kappa.

I've been trying to understand why you are so angry with JP, I could understand if you were angry with politics and politicians where they do take your money and waste it, don't make the country better, don't improve facilities, lie, cheat, hide what they have done behind "freedom of information", expenses claims. award themselves Knighthoods, etc. etc. Brexit, EU nation state - then I could understand and join your anger.

BUT JP has invested in facilities, spent money generally wisely and made the club better, bought within our means and negotiated top price on selling players, he has helped turn the club from a loss maker to a profit generator,  has not taken huge salary or dividends and will make a great big profit when he sells his shares. The fans who bought shares will have the option of holding them or making a gnrerous profit, What's not to like?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 09, 2016, 10:57:24 AM
I can't really speak for the fans he had the shares off,only those can say if they were happy or not with his price for them.
By the way,Jeremy will soon be rich enough to warrant a knighthood. ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 10, 2016, 12:35:15 PM
I have been told today that it's much closer now should be done in the next month. Let's see what happens but I think one thing is for sure the club have learnt from last summer and won't make a announcement until it's completed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 10, 2016, 01:39:11 PM
I have been told today that it's much closer now should be done in the next month. Let's see what happens but I think one thing is for sure the club have learnt from last summer and won't make a announcement until it's completed.

I heard were at a similar stage to wolves but obviously our potential new owner isn't looking to change manager so nothing has leaked.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 10, 2016, 01:46:01 PM
I have been told today that it's much closer now should be done in the next month. Let's see what happens but I think one thing is for sure the club have learnt from last summer and won't make a announcement until it's completed.

I suspect that whoever it is they probably don't have the deep pockets that have been rumoured, I can't help thinking that if it was a multi-billionaire this would have been completed by now but then what do I know  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 10, 2016, 02:26:59 PM
I suspect that whoever it is they probably don't have the deep pockets that have been rumoured, I can't help thinking that if it was a multi-billionaire this would have been completed by now but then what do I know  ;D

I suspect that their pockets will be as deep as they need to be, but maybe not as deep as we'd like them to be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 10, 2016, 02:31:46 PM
I have been told today that it's much closer now should be done in the next month. Let's see what happens but I think one thing is for sure the club have learnt from last summer and won't make a announcement until it's completed.
dont certain bodies e.g Premier League, AIM have to be told and isnt this where any info is likely to come out?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 10, 2016, 03:16:58 PM
dont certain bodies e.g Premier League, AIM have to be told and isnt this where any info is likely to come out?

Could be coming from anywhere, could be as simple as somebody's picked up an email from a printer at the bank.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on July 10, 2016, 04:18:50 PM
Very very slim chance of us being taken over this or next month in my opinion
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 10, 2016, 04:37:58 PM
It seams that 38 & 96 are ITK and have been on the ball in the past.
So hold onto your seats guys something's happening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 10, 2016, 06:08:37 PM
although its exciting thinking a new wealthy owner may take the club forward I for one find it sad that 4 local teams all founder members of the football league with nearly 140 years of history might soon all be owned by Chinese businessmen. nowt against them just wish it wasn't the case.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 10, 2016, 06:28:19 PM
although its exciting thinking a new wealthy owner may take the club forward I for one find it sad that 4 local teams all founder members of the football league with nearly 140 years of history might soon all be owned by Chinese businessmen. nowt against them just wish it wasn't the case.

I share your feelings. But football as we knew it ended when the premier league started. It's sink or swim i'm afraid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 10, 2016, 06:35:55 PM
I share your feelings. But football as we knew it ended when the premier league started. It's sink or swim i'm afraid.
yeah and if we dont get taken over soon i fear we will be sinking..jp has done a fantastic job but a new chapter is needed who knows what the future will have in stall for us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 10, 2016, 07:04:28 PM
It seams that 38 & 96 are ITK and have been on the ball in the past.
So hold onto your seats guys something's happening.

if it were Baggie 79 - then I would believe ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 10, 2016, 07:42:34 PM
if it were Baggie 79 - then I would believe ;D

I can only say what I've been told in good faith mate. Baggie 79 is on the ball when it comes to stuff like this so I really don't blame people for believing what he has to say on here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 10, 2016, 07:50:06 PM
Has an asking price even been announced by the club? There seems to be an awful lot of accusations being thrown around when the club hasn't announced any sort of valuation. If anything, its a lazy stick to beat Peace with
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on July 10, 2016, 07:57:28 PM
Baggie38 has proved to be accurate with previous information if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 10, 2016, 08:03:53 PM
Baggie38 has proved to be accurate with previous information if I remember correctly.

Yes i agree.

Problem i find with it is, that will only leave a week till the start of the season. What we going to do with summer plans just sit and wait? Then ul have the preimer league tests. We shouldn't put our eggs in one basket. What if it don't come off 😁
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 10, 2016, 08:14:07 PM
I heard were at a similar stage to wolves but obviously our potential new owner isn't looking to change manager so nothing has leaked.
wolves are expected to have new owners in the next 3-4 days with papers submitted to the football league, are we really as advanced as this with a takeover?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 10, 2016, 08:30:04 PM
Baggie 79 should say something if had itk as people think

To be fair to Baggie79 I can't remember him stepping a foot wrong with his information he is usually spot on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 10, 2016, 08:31:53 PM
Baggie 79 should say something if had itk as people think

We shouldn't expect him to make any comment, when he has posted on here before and it didn't happen he was castigated by some on here. So don't expect anything. We will know soon enough if a takeover is happening ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 10, 2016, 08:36:10 PM
Baggie 79 should say something if had itk as people think

Why SHOULD he say something??

He can choose when and where he releases his information and no one is in a position to say he has to say something even if he does know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 10, 2016, 09:29:22 PM
Baggie 79 should say something if had itk as people think

And its that sort of comment which puts them off.

He is a long standing member on here whom many of us trust.

He doesn't have to post anything and we shouldn't expect him too either.

And now back to the takeover folks..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 10, 2016, 11:43:13 PM
Yes i agree.

Problem i find with it is, that will only leave a week till the start of the season. What we going to do with summer plans just sit and wait? Then ul have the preimer league tests. We shouldn't put our eggs in one basket. What if it don't come off 😁

Yes that's a concern I have. We are potentially talking of a deal not being completed until as late as early August and I do wonder how that will affect the club in the transfer market in the meantime.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 10, 2016, 11:52:51 PM
So us and wolves could become top 3 richest clubs in country?

I read it would make wolves 2nd richest in uk and 8th richest in world. I hope we get sold to a wealthier owner than theirs. Imagine what they will be saying if they suddenly become worth more than us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 11, 2016, 12:04:59 AM
So us and wolves could become top 3 richest clubs in country?

I read it would make wolves 2nd richest in uk and 8th richest in world. I hope we get sold to a wealthier owner than theirs. Imagine what they will be saying if they suddenly become worth more than us
It's the owner that's rich..not the club. If they choose to scarper, the club will most probably be left to rot.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 11, 2016, 12:32:48 AM
Amazes me how so many supporters get caught up in the wealth of prospective new owners.

The depth of their bank account may not correlate to what they spend, and in fact rarely would given the required business acumen to make such gains. There was a well intentioned philanthropic toss pot down the road not long ago (he was not a quick Lerner), and further along the way a gilded mammary not too long before that. Neither case worked well from memory.

Only way I'd get rich would be to win the Lottery, work ALL the hours God sends or be born of a generous sperm donor who suddenly felt sorry for me. Two of the above aren't going to happen and I rarely play the Lottery.

In any of the above events, much as I love the Albion, I would not be inclined to splurge my wealth on blokes running around a pitch. Then again, I am not egotistical. Roll on down you easy fkrs with enough dough to make a shag of a difference to the Albion  :) .

And all of the very best  8) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 11, 2016, 09:42:01 AM
So us and wolves could become top 3 richest clubs in country?

I read it would make wolves 2nd richest in uk and 8th richest in world. I hope we get sold to a wealthier owner than theirs. Imagine what they will be saying if they suddenly become worth more than us

I am all too aware that wealth never guarentees success especially when it comes to football club acquisations, but surely this guy who is apparently on the verge of buying Wolves would also have looked at Albion as an option, and presumably thought better of it. So either JP is putting a too high price on Albion's s shares, a popular held believe, or he sees Wolves as a better long term investment. Either way its a concern as without serious new investment we could be heading in only one direction. I am genuinely concerned about our long term future, and I can only hope JP last decision as Albion chief will be seen a successful legacy for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 11, 2016, 09:48:19 AM
I think we might struggle this season, its massive this happens this season
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 11, 2016, 06:44:57 PM
There is alot of moaning. But it's getting to the point where it's justified. The clubs silence doesn't help matters either. I'm sure there more than aware of the feeling amonst fans. I thought thats what the assembly was created for to help ill feeling and the break between fans and club.

Either way im sure they could leak half an update somewhere if they wanted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 11, 2016, 07:08:26 PM
I must have missed something who do people think are buying us and wolves?
What's this chat about us being in the top three richest in UK,Chinese, Indian ,American or UK buyers.
I don't understand it anymore
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 11, 2016, 07:10:02 PM
There is alot of moaning. But it's getting to the point where it's justified. The clubs silence doesn't help matters either. I'm sure there more than aware of the feeling amonst fans. I thought thats what the assembly was created for to help ill feeling and the break between fans and club.

Either way im sure they could leak half an update somewhere if they wanted.
Maybe, just maybe it is the buyer ( if there is one ) who insists that it is kept under the radar
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 11, 2016, 07:13:30 PM
tis all hearsay
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MICKYMEL on July 12, 2016, 02:15:55 PM
After the debacle of stating we had new owners to then say it had fell through leads me to think it will all be watertight until something (if anything) materialises on the takeover front.
Wolves fans getting all full of themselves as the 2nd richest club in world , type wwfc into Twitter and they are wetting themselves , or go on molinuex mix.
I hope our silence means somethings happening.

Imagine wolves being took over and then the day after an even wealthier owner takes us over
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 12, 2016, 06:01:08 PM
Couldn't the club just say were not in any discussions regarding selling the club?
It's this constant speculation that concerns me.
Meanwhile there is such a lack of info from the club re new signings.
No one is saying much about anything are they,its this lack of connection with the fans,it does bother me,what do you guys think?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on July 12, 2016, 06:07:41 PM
After the debacle of stating we had new owners to then say it had fell through leads me to think it will all be watertight until something (if anything) materialises on the takeover front.
Wolves fans getting all full of themselves as the 2nd richest club in world , type wwfc into Twitter and they are wetting themselves , or go on molinuex mix.
I hope our silence means somethings happening.

Imagine wolves being took over and then the day after an even wealthier owner takes us over
When did the club ever say we had new owners? They gave an interested party exclusivity to conclude a deal, which is very different from announcing that the club had been sold.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on July 12, 2016, 06:18:13 PM
Couldn't the club just say were not in any discussions regarding selling the club?
It's this constant speculation that concerns me.
Meanwhile there is such a lack of info from the club re new signings.
No one is saying much about anything are they,its this lack of connection with the fans,it does bother me,what do you guys think?

I think the reason the club or board haven't come out and said we aren't in any negotiations is because behind the scenes we are probably talking to numerous parties about selling the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on July 12, 2016, 06:18:36 PM
I think we might struggle this season, its massive this happens this season

You say that every pre season
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 12, 2016, 06:19:18 PM
You say that every pre season


i do dont i, just like i say i wont buy another season ticket before you get that one in too, most likely said it 15000 posts ago an all
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 12, 2016, 06:49:23 PM
Just because Wolves get new owners doesn't make them worth more than us...it's not like they go to being worth 9 billion or whatever they are still only worth what 20/30m at most

We are worth at least 4 to 5 times they are and we also in the Premier League

They seem to think they will now walk the league with new owners!! Did the Hayward years not teach them anything?? Money doesn't buy success and they along with several championship clubs will have wealthy owners but they seem to think top international players will be joining them in the championship and not other teams

I guarantee they won't make the top6 next season
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 12, 2016, 06:55:56 PM
Just because Wolves get new owners doesn't make them worth more than us...it's not like they go to being worth 9 billion or whatever they are still only worth what 20/30m at most

We are worth at least 4 to 5 times they are and we also in the Premier League

They seem to think they will now walk the league with new owners!! Did the Hayward years not teach them anything?? Money doesn't buy success and they along with several championship clubs will have wealthy owners but they seem to think top international players will be joining them in the championship and not other teams

I guarantee they won't make the top6 next season
its not looking so rosy after all. plus they're stuck with moxey who most of them hate.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/07/12/wolves-set-for-40m-jorge-mendes-backed-takeover-but-kenny-jacket/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 12, 2016, 07:14:51 PM
Just because Wolves get new owners doesn't make them worth more than us...it's not like they go to being worth 9 billion or whatever they are still only worth what 20/30m at most

We are worth at least 4 to 5 times they are and we also in the Premier League

They seem to think they will now walk the league with new owners!! Did the Hayward years not teach them anything?? Money doesn't buy success and they along with several championship clubs will have wealthy owners but they seem to think top international players will be joining them in the championship and not other teams

I guarantee they won't make the top6 next season

I doubt we are worth 4 times more than them Tom. Morgan spent quite a bit on their ground, all the new owners have to spend on is the squad. They went for £40m, and like it or not they are a club with a great history. I would value us at £80m but no more. To be honest i am not sure i would really want a filthy rich Chinaman running us,with no knowledge of our history and heritage. But Peace has said he has taken us as far as he can,i just want something sorted out sooner rather than later and not have this circus every bloody summer window.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 12, 2016, 07:37:22 PM
How much is the Chinaman worth?
Is he a multimillionaire or billionaire?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 12, 2016, 10:56:16 PM
Who, he wolves one or our's? The wolves one is worth 10 billion, we will probably be sold to Jimmy Woo who runs the take away in Dudley.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 13, 2016, 09:04:39 AM
Who, he wolves one or our's? The wolves one is worth 10 billion, we will probably be sold to Jimmy Woo who runs the take away in Dudley.


Hes probably got a few more quid than JP
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Manc Baggie on July 13, 2016, 09:21:59 AM
Meanwhile there is such a lack of info from the club re new signings.
No one is saying much about anything are they,its this lack of connection with the fans,it does bother me,what do you guys think?

I totally agree with the lack of coms & connection with fans comment.  The official site is, in my opinion, poor & gives next to nothing away in terms  club news & the birmingham mail, express and star are clearly given very little info from the club to use, so is mostly speculation.
I have felt for many years that the club miss a real opportunity with the o/s & could use it to connect more with the fans, but it seems To be the bare minimum most of the time.
Mrs Manc Baggie is a life long man city fan & as a result I get to hear, whether I want to or not!, a lot about them. Even way before the money arrived, they were better connected with their fans. Spend a few minutes on their o/s & you get a flavour of how much more open & connected they seem to be. Up until last season, extended match highlights were available to view free of charge for every game on their o/s, whilst we have to subscribe to albion player.
Whilst relative wealth plays some part, its the difference in club cultures I am trying to hi-light as an area we could & in my opinion, should be trying to improve upon, starting with the o/s.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 13, 2016, 09:39:11 AM
Meanwhile there is such a lack of info from the club re new signings.
No one is saying much about anything are they,its this lack of connection with the fans,it does bother me,what do you guys think?

I totally agree with the lack of coms & connection with fans comment.  The official site is, in my opinion, poor & gives next to nothing away in terms  club news & the birmingham mail, express and star are clearly given very little info from the club to use, so is mostly speculation.
I have felt for many years that the club miss a real opportunity with the o/s & could use it to connect more with the fans, but it seems To be the bare minimum most of the time.
Mrs Manc Baggie is a life long man city fan & as a result I get to hear, whether I want to or not!, a lot about them. Even way before the money arrived, they were better connected with their fans. Spend a few minutes on their o/s & you get a flavour of how much more open & connected they seem to be. Up until last season, extended match highlights were available to view free of charge for every game on their o/s, whilst we have to subscribe to albion player.
Whilst relative wealth plays some part, its the difference in club cultures I am trying to hi-light as an area we could & in my opinion, should be trying to improve upon, starting with the o/s.

What did we do for news before social media?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 13, 2016, 09:57:48 AM
Meanwhile there is such a lack of info from the club re new signings.
No one is saying much about anything are they,its this lack of connection with the fans,it does bother me,what do you guys think?

I totally agree with the lack of coms & connection with fans comment.  The official site is, in my opinion, poor & gives next to nothing away in terms  club news & the birmingham mail, express and star are clearly given very little info from the club to use, so is mostly speculation.
I have felt for many years that the club miss a real opportunity with the o/s & could use it to connect more with the fans, but it seems To be the bare minimum most of the time.
Mrs Manc Baggie is a life long man city fan & as a result I get to hear, whether I want to or not!, a lot about them. Even way before the money arrived, they were better connected with their fans. Spend a few minutes on their o/s & you get a flavour of how much more open & connected they seem to be. Up until last season, extended match highlights were available to view free of charge for every game on their o/s, whilst we have to subscribe to albion player.
Whilst relative wealth plays some part, its the difference in club cultures I am trying to hi-light as an area we could & in my opinion, should be trying to improve upon, starting with the o/s.

I think you'll find the club are doing a lot to explore ways of re-engaging the fans, not the least of which is the Albion Assembly. The big problem is not what to disclose, but how to disclose it. Not everybody has access to social media, & even if they do, not everybody uses it. Take this forum for example, probably the biggest WBA forum in the world, & yet it only has 3157 members out of an average gate of 25,000, plus at least as many more, who are interested, but don't or can't get to games.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 13, 2016, 10:42:04 AM
I think I've said this before but my line of work involves helping companies like WBA better connect with their fans. We even tried to contact them to do some work but they never replied
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 13, 2016, 10:55:41 AM
I think I've said this before but my line of work involves helping companies like WBA better connect with their fans. We even tried to contact them to do some work but they never replied

Perhaps you need to do some networking Mark?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 13, 2016, 10:58:37 AM
What did we do for news before social media?

There was a mate in my class at school in the 60's, whose dad was a businessman and played golf with Albion and Wolves players.
I got to know what was going on at both clubs a day or so before it went public in the E&S.
I have to agree with Manc Baggie,the relationship between the club and the fans is very poor,we are always the last to know,whereas Wolves fans knew about their takeover a few weeks ago, and it WILL happen.
I doubt ours will,same old every season.
Why should they tell us anyway,we only finance the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 13, 2016, 11:00:19 AM
Meanwhile there is such a lack of info from the club re new signings.
No one is saying much about anything are they,its this lack of connection with the fans,it does bother me,what do you guys think?

I totally agree with the lack of coms & connection with fans comment.  The official site is, in my opinion, poor & gives next to nothing away in terms  club news & the birmingham mail, express and star are clearly given very little info from the club to use, so is mostly speculation.
I have felt for many years that the club miss a real opportunity with the o/s & could use it to connect more with the fans, but it seems To be the bare minimum most of the time.
Mrs Manc Baggie is a life long man city fan & as a result I get to hear, whether I want to or not!, a lot about them. Even way before the money arrived, they were better connected with their fans. Spend a few minutes on their o/s & you get a flavour of how much more open & connected they seem to be. Up until last season, extended match highlights were available to view free of charge for every game on their o/s, whilst we have to subscribe to albion player.
Whilst relative wealth plays some part, its the difference in club cultures I am trying to hi-light as an area we could & in my opinion, should be trying to improve upon, starting with the o/s.

I've never understood the anger at us not shouting things from the roof tops. I just don't see what the issue is.

Consider this: We announce we are making a move for a player. Other clubs, media outlets, etc then know about it. If the player is worth buying, you can bet your house that someone will be able to offer him better terms than us. Keeping our approaches low-key got us Odemwingie, Rondon, Evans, etc. We very very rarely win battles for players when competing with other clubs. 1-0 to keeping quiet.

The club announces they made an approach for a player, fans get excited, player doesn't sign. Fans are mad and criticise the club. In many, many cases this will not be the clubs fault and down to ridiculous wage/agent fees requested by the player. The club then has to deal with the fallout of failing to sign a player, all because they put it out in the open. It's not in the clubs interest to have the fans criticise them for circumstances out their control, just because they thought they'd throw out a tidbit of info first. 2-0 to keeping quiet.

The club announces they're 'monitoring' a player, not even in talks with them, the fans don't like said player and spout off on Social Media about the disappointment of such news. Fans threaten to return season tickets (it happened over a bloody kit for goodness sake, and McClean), the club has to deal with the fallout. 3-0 for keeping quiet.

I just don't get it. If you can't disconnect the notion that no news means nothing is happening, I have nothing for you. If you just want us to start making media announcements like a big swinging dong competition so we look good, I can message you a random outlandish transfer rumour every day if you like?

I'd MUCH rather we keep our cards close to our chest than the idiots that run clubs that say anything to appease fans. Look at West Ham - 'We are going to sign a big name striker, maybe Lacazette' - great precedent to set when you do neither. They'll be judged on their ridiculous statement, their unfounded confidence and then lack the ability to do the deal. It has absolutely nothing to do with the wealth of the clubs - it's the outward appearance and ego that has everything to do with it. Man City are a big club with lots of money, who can sign anyone they want, and a lot of media eyes are on them. OF COURSE they'll want to flex their financial muscles by being seen to go for the best players in the world. How the hell do Albion do that? Imagine if we said we wanted to sign Lacazette or Pogba or Ronaldo? Nobody would believe it, we'd look deluded and our own, and other teams fans would think we'd lost the plot.

People need to disassociate themselves with having to know absolutely everything going on, at all times, everywhere. We aren't going to sign players if we have to compete with other clubs, so that's why we don't announce transfers til they're done. The club comes off SO much better by not being seen to miss out on deals, not making outlandish statements of intent and not putting itself in the firing line unnecessarily.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 13, 2016, 11:02:13 AM
There was a mate in my class at school in the 60's, whose dad was a businessman and played golf with Albion and Wolves players.
I got to know what was going on at both clubs a day or so before it went public in the E&S.
I have to agree with Manc Baggie,the relationship between the club and the fans is very poor,we are always the last to know,whereas Wolves fans knew about their takeover a few weeks ago, and it WILL happen.
I doubt ours will,same old every season.
Why should they tell us anyway,we only finance the club.

We don't finance the club. The Premier League finance the club. We could play every single game from here on out behind closed doors, shut the club shop, don't sell any programmes, refreshments, and merchandise, and we'll make £100m next year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 13, 2016, 11:12:40 AM
I've never understood the anger at us not shouting things from the roof tops. I just don't see what the issue is.

Consider this: We announce we are making a move for a player. Other clubs, media outlets, etc then know about it. If the player is worth buying, you can bet your house that someone will be able to offer him better terms than us. Keeping our approaches low-key got us Odemwingie, Rondon, Evans, etc. We very very rarely win battles for players when competing with other clubs. 1-0 to keeping quiet.

The club announces they made an approach for a player, fans get excited, player doesn't sign. Fans are mad and criticise the club. In many, many cases this will not be the clubs fault and down to ridiculous wage/agent fees requested by the player. The club then has to deal with the fallout of failing to sign a player, all because they put it out in the open. It's not in the clubs interest to have the fans criticise them for circumstances out their control, just because they thought they'd throw out a tidbit of info first. 2-0 to keeping quiet.

The club announces they're 'monitoring' a player, not even in talks with them, the fans don't like said player and spout off on Social Media about the disappointment of such news. Fans threaten to return season tickets (it happened over a bloody kit for goodness sake, and McClean), the club has to deal with the fallout. 3-0 for keeping quiet.

I just don't get it. If you can't disconnect the notion that no news means nothing is happening, I have nothing for you. If you just want us to start making media announcements like a big swinging dong competition so we look good, I can message you a random outlandish transfer rumour every day if you like?

I'd MUCH rather we keep our cards close to our chest than the idiots that run clubs that say anything to appease fans. Look at West Ham - 'We are going to sign a big name striker, maybe Lacazette' - great precedent to set when you do neither. They'll be judged on their ridiculous statement, their unfounded confidence and then lack the ability to do the deal. It has absolutely nothing to do with the wealth of the clubs - it's the outward appearance and ego that has everything to do with it. Man City are a big club with lots of money, who can sign anyone they want, and a lot of media eyes are on them. OF COURSE they'll want to flex their financial muscles by being seen to go for the best players in the world. How the hell do Albion do that? Imagine if we said we wanted to sign Lacazette or Pogba or Ronaldo? Nobody would believe it, we'd look deluded and our own, and other teams fans would think we'd lost the plot.

People need to disassociate themselves with having to know absolutely everything going on, at all times, everywhere. We aren't going to sign players if we have to compete with other clubs, so that's why we don't announce transfers til they're done. The club comes off SO much better by not being seen to miss out on deals, not making outlandish statements of intent and not putting itself in the firing line unnecessarily.

I agree with everything you've said, but I did hear on the grapevine, that we might be making a bid for Aaron Ramsey, apparently James Chester convinced him that the meals in our training ground restaurant were better than Arsenal's.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 13, 2016, 11:17:56 AM

Consider this: We announce we are making a move for a player. Other clubs, media outlets, etc then know about it. If the player is worth buying, you can bet your house that someone will be able to offer him better terms than us. Keeping our approaches low-key got us Odemwingie, Rondon, Evans, etc. We very very rarely win battles for players when competing with other clubs. 1-0 to keeping quiet.


I very much doubt it works like that. If a player is available then every man and his dog will know about it. I hardly think managers and chairman are keeping an eye on the internet to see which players are moving. Their agents will be touting them all over the place trying to get the best deal. I suspect we got the 3 players you mention because we were the best or only option available to them at the time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 13, 2016, 11:48:55 AM
There was a mate in my class at school in the 60's, whose dad was a businessman and played golf with Albion and Wolves players.
I got to know what was going on at both clubs a day or so before it went public in the E&S.
I have to agree with Manc Baggie,the relationship between the club and the fans is very poor,we are always the last to know,whereas Wolves fans knew about their takeover a few weeks ago, and it WILL happen.
I doubt ours will,same old every season.
Why should they tell us anyway,we only finance the club.
far as I can tell Wolves the club have said nothing about a buyer in any capacity. The Club has said just as much as ours have.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 13, 2016, 11:51:59 AM
Perhaps you need to do some networking Mark?

We contacted Adrian Wright (Head of Sales and Marketing), Martin Swain (Director of Communications) and possibly Paul Bradbury (Head of Retail) too via LinkedIn. When we didn't hear anything, we posted example outputs to the club urging them to talk to us.

Never mind, we work with other Premier League clubs, I'm sure the club knows what it's doing....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 13, 2016, 12:08:49 PM
far as I can tell Wolves the club have said nothing about a buyer in any capacity. The Club has said just as much as ours have.

Well Kenny Jackett has said he won't be part of the new owners plans,it doesn't get much more obvious than that.
The good news is they are keeping Moxey. :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 13, 2016, 12:10:38 PM
We contacted Adrian Wright (Head of Sales and Marketing), Martin Swain (Director of Communications) and possibly Paul Bradbury (Head of Retail) too via LinkedIn. When we didn't hear anything, we posted example outputs to the club urging them to talk to us.

Never mind, we work with other Premier League clubs, I'm sure the club knows what it's doing....

I'll pm you
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 13, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
I don't think it would be sensible for the club to say anything whilst negotiations are in place, perhaps legally they're not allowed to anyway.
It's a rock and a hard place. If you leak even the smallest amount of info out that a takeover is happening, then the fans start to get excited and can be cynical if it falls through (which many takeovers of this size happen to do so). Yet if you stay quiet it also creates unrest as the fans feel ignored that nothing is being said.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Manc Baggie on July 13, 2016, 12:17:12 PM
I've never understood the anger at us not shouting things from the roof tops. I just don't see what the issue is.

Consider this: We announce we are making a move for a player. Other clubs, media outlets, etc then know about it. If the player is worth buying, you can bet your house that someone will be able to offer him better terms than us. Keeping our approaches low-key got us Odemwingie, Rondon, Evans, etc. We very very rarely win battles for players when competing with other clubs. 1-0 to keeping quiet.

The club announces they made an approach for a player, fans get excited, player doesn't sign. Fans are mad and criticise the club. In many, many cases this will not be the clubs fault and down to ridiculous wage/agent fees requested by the player. The club then has to deal with the fallout of failing to sign a player, all because they put it out in the open. It's not in the clubs interest to have the fans criticise them for circumstances out their control, just because they thought they'd throw out a tidbit of info first. 2-0 to keeping quiet.

The club announces they're 'monitoring' a player, not even in talks with them, the fans don't like said player and spout off on Social Media about the disappointment of such news. Fans threaten to return season tickets (it happened over a bloody kit for goodness sake, and McClean), the club has to deal with the fallout. 3-0 for keeping quiet.

I just don't get it. If you can't disconnect the notion that no news means nothing is happening, I have nothing for you. If you just want us to start making media announcements like a big swinging dong competition so we look good, I can message you a random outlandish transfer rumour every day if you like?

I'd MUCH rather we keep our cards close to our chest than the idiots that run clubs that say anything to appease fans. Look at West Ham - 'We are going to sign a big name striker, maybe Lacazette' - great precedent to set when you do neither. They'll be judged on their ridiculous statement, their unfounded confidence and then lack the ability to do the deal. It has absolutely nothing to do with the wealth of the clubs - it's the outward appearance and ego that has everything to do with it. Man City are a big club with lots of money, who can sign anyone they want, and a lot of media eyes are on them. OF COURSE they'll want to flex their financial muscles by being seen to go for the best players in the world. How the hell do Albion do that? Imagine if we said we wanted to sign Lacazette or Pogba or Ronaldo? Nobody would believe it, we'd look deluded and our own, and other teams fans would think we'd lost the plot.

People need to disassociate themselves with having to know absolutely everything going on, at all times, everywhere. We aren't going to sign players if we have to compete with other clubs, so that's why we don't announce transfers til they're done. The club comes off SO much better by not being seen to miss out on deals, not making outlandish statements of intent and not putting itself in the firing line unnecessarily.


Hello PsalmXXIII, I am certainly not angry & agree that we as a smaller club have to quite rightly cut our cloth & associated transfer policy accordingly & I am in no way suggesting we should be / can compete with richer clubs in relation to transfers. Neither have I suggested anything related to making outlandish claims etc. The national media generally do enough of that already. I fully endorse keeping our transfer cards close to our chest.
My point was & remains, that the culture of the club is in my opinion rather closed in relation to engaging our fans & was only using Man City as an example of the more open engaging culture from that club towards its fans, as thanks to my missus, I am aware of the positive difference between the clubs in this regard. One example is that we could & in my opinion should have more free to view content on the o/s regarding match highlights, player interviews, opinion pieces & behind the scenes content. As you have quite correctly pointed out in your follow up post, the fans are not needed to finance the club, so why not make the Albion player free?
Due to Mrs Manc Baggie having severe health problems & no longer being able to go to games or even operate a keyboard anymore, I have consequently spent a lot of time on the Man City o/s over recent seasons to inform her of what is happening at her club & I can honestly say that they are light years ahead of us. I know they have recently remodelled their o/s, so will be interesting to see what changes.
There will always be more news & day to day content about our club which would be of interest to our fans & which would make us feel more connected to our club & help to raise our profile to the wider media in a more positive way. What is needed, is a change of attitude & emphasis by the club to be thinking what can we do for our fans, instead of what can our fans give us & making more effort with o/s would, in my opinion, be a good place to start.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 13, 2016, 12:23:52 PM
I don't see the link between the club detailing every working behind the scenes and the fans?

We don't need to know anything until it is done and dusted. It seems crazy to suggest otherwise!

It's been said a hundred times this summer that after last years embarrassing about turn at the 11th hour that it's no surprise it's very quiet.

Word on the grapevine is that JP is talking about selling the club. Ultimately he has a price and probably doesn't want to just flog it to any old nutter. At some point he will find a suitable buyer weather it be at his price or later at a reduced price.

Ultimately the way things are going in world football it probably won't make a great deal of difference except we may become slightly more fluid in the transfer market.

The moaning from some Albion fans on social media is quite frankly embarrassing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 13, 2016, 01:11:41 PM
Personally i think nothing is being said because nothing is happening. Parties have probably checked us out,saw the askingprice but have said, thanks but no thanks.
I am pretty sure that the billionaire who is taking over the dingles would have had a look at us first.
Premiership club,no debt. What could have possibly put him off?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 13, 2016, 01:32:55 PM
Personally i think nothing is being said because nothing is happening. Parties have probably checked us out,saw the askingprice but have said, thanks but no thanks.
I am pretty sure that the billionaire who is taking over the dingles would have had a look at us first.
Premiership club,no debt. What could have possibly put him off?

Moaning Fans  :D  :-X
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 13, 2016, 01:48:47 PM
Moaning Fans  :D  :-X

Christ, he wouldn't have gone for the Dingles then.;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 13, 2016, 02:40:58 PM
Personally i think nothing is being said because nothing is happening. Parties have probably checked us out,saw the askingprice but have said, thanks but no thanks.
I am pretty sure that the billionaire who is taking over the dingles would have had a look at us first.
Premiership club,no debt. What could have possibly put him off?

Sandwell air traffic control wouldn't give his chopper clearance.    Fnar, Fnar !!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on July 13, 2016, 06:09:20 PM
Personally i think nothing is being said because nothing is happening. Parties have probably checked us out,saw the askingprice but have said, thanks but no thanks.
I am pretty sure that the billionaire who is taking over the dingles would have had a look at us first.
Premiership club,no debt. What could have possibly put him off?
If they would rather shop a Lidl ....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on July 13, 2016, 07:23:06 PM
Exclusive: @WBA have agreed to sell club to a Chinese group.The deal will be completed around September once due diligence is completed #WBA

It's from the well known Indy guy on Twitter who tends to get 80% of deals before the media.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 13, 2016, 07:31:09 PM
Exclusive: @WBA have agreed to sell club to a Chinese group.The deal will be completed around September once due diligence is completed #WBA

It's from the well known Indy guy on Twitter who tends to get 80% of deals before the media.
even if thats true he will be running a championship club as we wont have time to sign anyone
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 13, 2016, 07:32:45 PM
I doubt we are worth 4 times more than them Tom. Morgan spent quite a bit on their ground, all the new owners have to spend on is the squad. They went for £40m, and like it or not they are a club with a great history. I would value us at £80m but no more. To be honest i am not sure i would really want a filthy rich Chinaman running us,with no knowledge of our history and heritage. But Peace has said he has taken us as far as he can,i just want something sorted out sooner rather than later and not have this circus every bloody summer window.

We are worth an awful lot more than 80m in my opinion

Throw in the TV deal, assets of the club and you have a club worth at least 120-130 if not more
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 13, 2016, 07:48:32 PM
Exclusive: @WBA have agreed to sell club to a Chinese group.The deal will be completed around September once due diligence is completed #WBA

It's from the well known Indy guy on Twitter who tends to get 80% of deals before the media.

He doesn't. He makes it up as he goes along.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sooty2 on July 13, 2016, 07:53:11 PM
It as been sold just got to wait now until the club is ready to make it public 👍
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 13, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
We are worth an awful lot more than 80m in my opinion

Throw in the TV deal, assets of the club and you have a club worth at least 120-130 if not more

Thing is though Tom it's all down to what a buyer is willing to pay, and the location,fanbase, marketing value all have a price.

Dingles and Villa are both worth more than what they went for, but they cut their losses.
Both Peace and Morgan would come out of the deal well in profit, Morgan bought it for a tenner and Jeremy has paid in.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 13, 2016, 08:08:00 PM
I can see why a Chinese consortium would buy Wolves & Villa, buy it for circa £60 million, do it up a bit & sell it for £120 million kerching!

Can't see why any Chinese company would buy WBA, especially with those 2 in close proximity.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 13, 2016, 08:15:53 PM
why do posters say the clubs close to or has been sold with out any evidence. if they cant give any proof what's the point.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 13, 2016, 08:18:39 PM
CaravanC maybe it's because they cannot say where they've had it from and don't want to get anyone into trouble... You will be enlightened soon  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 13, 2016, 08:28:08 PM
why do posters say the clubs close to or has been sold with out any evidence. if they cant give any proof what's the point.

There will be some simply making it up while there will be others that can't say where they got it from or they don't get any info again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 13, 2016, 08:29:49 PM
There will be some simply making it up while there will be others that can't say where they got it from or they don't get any info again.

Correct!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 13, 2016, 11:58:19 PM
Someone a few pages back said we will be sold mid August and he said its from a good source. Now someone else saying we will be sold in September and got decent source. And you also got the recent guy saying we have been sold and club waiting to make it public.
Why don't we make it public now, if we have been sold? Wolves have made it public haven't they and villa made theirs public before was final.
I'm wondering if we are waiting for the wolves buyout to go through before announcing our buy out.. In case it tempts wolves to come and try jeopardise our deal and take them away from us and have them buy wolves instead?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 14, 2016, 12:42:24 AM
As ever with all media whether it is formal or informal you have to make your own judgement as to what level of credibility you give any particular writer. Personally I know who I chose to believe and whose insight I might not value as highly.

At the moment I believe there is credible interest from at least 1 party. They are probably Far Eastern if for no other reason that the Chinese seem to be the most active players in the market. I don't think the interest has reached formal bid and acceptance stage and as such there is no announcement from the club because there is nothing to announce.

This does not mean to say that a deal won't be struck in August or September but unlike last year there won't be a formal window for a deal to be done. Critically until the club see's the colour of any would be buyer's money it is business as usual any other course of action would be bonkers.     
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 14, 2016, 06:04:24 AM
Someone a few pages back said we will be sold mid August and he said its from a good source. Now someone else saying we will be sold in September and got decent source. And you also got the recent guy saying we have been sold and club waiting to make it public.
Why don't we make it public now, if we have been sold? Wolves have made it public haven't they and villa made theirs public before was final.
I'm wondering if we are waiting for the wolves buyout to go through before announcing our buy out.. In case it tempts wolves to come and try jeopardise our deal and take them away from us and have them buy wolves instead?

Ignore any comments from so-called good sources. The Club releases very little information on players we are interested; JP will definitely not release a shred of information of any impending business he is involved in to sell the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 14, 2016, 07:06:13 AM
Ignore any comments from so-called good sources. The Club releases very little information on players we are interested; JP will definitely not release a shred of information of any impending business he is involved in to sell the club.

He won't say sod all until something is virtually done, he will have learnt from that mistake this time last year. Might come out from other sources in business news before the sports lads get it but it would leak from the buyers side.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 14, 2016, 08:03:12 AM
If the sale is going to be as late as reported. In a month or as matt wilson said not even close. Then at best we are going to have a transfer window like previous ones.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 14, 2016, 08:39:58 AM
If the sale is going to be as late as reported. In a month or as matt wilson said not even close. Then at best we are going to have a transfer window like previous ones.

I'm curious to know why people think that new owners will have an impact on our activity in the transfer window. JP's objective will be to retain our EPL status, any new owners primary objective will be to retain our EPL status.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 14, 2016, 08:46:49 AM
I'm curious to know why people think that new owners will have an impact on our activity in the transfer window. JP's objective will be to retain our EPL status, any new owners primary objective will be to retain our EPL status.

With new owners we are going to be far more attractive to players IMO. The club may well start to show a little ambition.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 14, 2016, 08:59:43 AM
With new owners we are going to be far more attractive to players IMO. The club may well start to show a little ambition.

It really depends on what has motivated them to buy the club. Would you spend £250 on a pair of shoes when a pair costing £50 would do the same job?

We need to look at it from a business perspective as opposed to a fan's perspective.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 14, 2016, 09:18:23 AM
It really depends on what has motivated them to buy the club. Would you spend £250 on a pair of shoes when a pair costing £50 would do the same job?

We need to look at it from a business perspective as opposed to a fan's perspective.

I don't see why anyone would buy us without wanting to push us forward. In fact at the figures being banded around I'm not sure why anyone would want to buy us. It's a massive outlay for very little gain.

Why spend £150m+ on us when you could buy a Wolves or Villa for a fraction of that? I can't see us being sold anytime soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jordie1471 on July 14, 2016, 09:27:12 AM
With new owners we are going to be far more attractive to players IMO. The club may well start to show a little ambition.

Surely depends on who the owners are. Were Vincent Tan and the Blackburn chicken farmer people attractive for players?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 14, 2016, 09:28:48 AM
It really depends on what has motivated them to buy the club. Would you spend £250 on a pair of shoes when a pair costing £50 would do the same job?

We need to look at it from a business perspective as opposed to a fan's perspective.

I wouldn't but ha i still wear black Dunlop plimsolls.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 14, 2016, 09:30:55 AM
Something on FB saying due diligence is being done at moment. Don't know how true but some say the site where it came from is a pretty reliable source.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 14, 2016, 09:31:25 AM
As ever with all media whether it is formal or informal you have to make your own judgement as to what level of credibility you give any particular writer. Personally I know who I chose to believe and whose insight I might not value as highly.

At the moment I believe there is credible interest from at least 1 party. They are probably Far Eastern if for no other reason that the Chinese seem to be the most active players in the market. I don't think the interest has reached formal bid and acceptance stage and as such there is no announcement from the club because there is nothing to announce.

This does not mean to say that a deal won't be struck in August or September but unlike last year there won't be a formal window for a deal to be done. Critically until the club see's the colour of any would be buyer's money it is business as usual any other course of action would be bonkers.   
Agree. Think there may be a bit of window shopping going on but that's about it. I'd be surprised if anything comes of it at all but certainly can't see anything that's going to affect this transfer window. Business as usual unfortunately.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 14, 2016, 09:43:30 AM
The worrying thing is,i don't know of any Chinese owned clubs who have been successful.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: superbobgod on July 14, 2016, 10:35:27 AM
Leicester have been slightly successful since their Thai takeover if that can be used as an example.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 14, 2016, 10:37:09 AM
The worrying thing is,i don't know of any Chinese owned clubs who have been successful.

Not sure how many clubs are actually owned by Chinese individuals/companies.

had a quick google and it appears that Villa are the only ones wholey owned by the Chinese, Man City have  13% owned by Chinese govt and Blues have 11.27% rumoured to be owned by chinese ...Yeung is from Hong Kong but if you add his 25% then Blues are 37% owned by Chinese individuals.

In Europe 20% stake in Athletico Madrid, 55% of Inter Milan and 56% of Espanyol are Chinese that's all i could find.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 14, 2016, 11:32:46 AM
Leicester have been slightly successful since their Thai takeover if that can be used as an example.
Culturally the Thais are very different to the Chinese, it would be like comparing the Chinese to Japanese - there's no real comparison.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 14, 2016, 12:07:32 PM
Just to throw one in here, isn't it possible, that the Chinese link is, in fact. a red herring? Isn't it more likely, with all the work WBA are doing in India, that interest is coming from that continent? Furthermore, given the traditional links between Britain & India, wouldn't it be more beneficial for all parties, than a Chinese link?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 14, 2016, 12:16:50 PM
Just to throw one in here, isn't it possible, that the Chinese link is, in fact. a red herring? Isn't it more likely, with all the work WBA are doing in India, that interest is coming from that continent? Furthermore, given the traditional links between Britain & India, wouldn't it be more beneficial for all parties, than a Chinese link?


that would be much better, as long as hes not a venky :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 14, 2016, 12:21:22 PM

that would be much better, as long as hes not a venky :)

Or a Bhatti, who almost did a very, very good job !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on July 14, 2016, 12:54:11 PM
Personally i am not really arsed about the bloke who took over Villa or the potential Wolves.

English football is full of multimillionaires and billionaires now, its what these owners do with it. In the past it used to be just millionaires, loads of clubs had them but they dont guarentee success (Sir Jack at the Wolves would of vouched for that, he loved the club but they never quite made it to be a regular top flight club and he did everything he could to make sure they did)

As a fan of Villa or Wolves i would be excited because its something new but also cautious as there is no guarentee of success.

Man City had a good starting point when they got taken over, the owner before had started to spend good money (admittedly turned out it wasnt his!) and the Arabs came in.

However Man City i think got taken over 6 or 7 years ago and are still not a football super power, they are getting there and getting Guardiola helps, but they havent all of a sudden dominated football like some Villa and Wolves fans think their clubs will.

Also  fair play to the Man City owners, they have not only put money into the team but they are building a lot for the community and when they go their will be a legacy but not many clubs owners have done that.

If we are to be taken over i would rather it be like a Southampton or West Ham, owners who seem to care and want to continually improve but do it gradually and with foundations.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 14, 2016, 03:15:49 PM
I wonder how long Gold and Sullivan will be around once they have got their mitts on the Boleyn ground cash, it would be interesting to hear how the bluenoses view their tenure at St Andrews now!

Southampton is a funny one, the owner is the daughter of the guy who brought it and then pegged it isn't she. Is she seeing it as her Dads  legacy and is therefore committed, or does she have other things to concern her having inherited a multi-billion corporation?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 14, 2016, 06:25:07 PM
At the end of the day, i think most businessmen see football clubs as their personal toy, and how much they spend on it is down to how much they play with it. Sad isn't it?
Abramovich genuinely wanted Chelsea to be the best, but he set a trend for other billionaires to buy a football club whether they really wanted one or not.
The worst thing that could happen is for us to have an owner who wasn't interested in his toy.
I don't like Peace, but he has sailed a stable course, the problem is we can no longer exist in a league of billionaires. If we are struggling against relegation along with rich mens clubs then out will come their cheque books.
I really wish we hadn't come to this, i wish we could turn the clock back 40 years.
But Pandora's Box has been opened. :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Beefy on July 15, 2016, 01:01:07 AM
Srevie B i think is vet much ITK on twitter
I stand to be corrected
Worth following the rest of this snippet i have just found  :o

 âš½ âš½ F L E T C H  âš½ âš½ ‏@_Fletch__  5h
@StevenWBA what's the take over story today then mate

 Steven B ‏@StevenWBA  5h
@_Fletch__ Told that they are getting much, much closer. Final throes now.
2 retweets 2 likes

Reply   Retweet  2   
 barry moulsdale ‏@bazabaggie73  5h
@StevenWBA all due diligence done this time Steve or could there be choppy waters ahead??
1 retweet 1 like
Reply   Retweet  1   

 Stuart Hunt ‏@huntywbafc  5h
@StevenWBA what u think Steve, is there anything going u think ref takeover ?
0 retweets 0 likes
Reply   Retweet   

 Steven B ‏@StevenWBA  5h
@huntywbafc Yes
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Beefy on July 15, 2016, 01:20:53 AM
tony noke ‏@truebaggie  5h
@StevenWBA is there any truth in this so called take over I really have my doubts.
0 retweets 0 likes

 Steven B ‏@StevenWBA  5h
@truebaggie To be fair, Tony, I get a little offended when people say "any truth?". If there wasn't, I wouldn't tweet it. Lose credibility
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 15, 2016, 08:06:38 AM
Why is it tweets look like difficult to understand cryptic messages
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 15, 2016, 08:50:26 AM
Why is it tweets look like difficult to understand cryptic messages

because you have a limited amount of characters (letters, spaces, punctuation marks etc) to say what you want in a single tweet. I think it's 140 characters per tweet.
What I have put in bold is 140 characters long (I think!)

Just checked it's 140 "letter" characters so doesn't include spaces or punctuation marks..I think. I don't use twitter myself.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 15, 2016, 09:04:39 AM
cheers for that Hull, i will stick to facebook
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on July 15, 2016, 09:09:36 AM
Don't know why some people are convinced that there's going to be a takeover. Just wishful thinking by everyone. I understand that JP and WBA are watertight when it comes to stuff like this but I'm sure something would of come out even a snipette of info but literally nothing, just 'ITK' people of Twitter making up stuff.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 15, 2016, 09:12:10 AM
because you have a limited amount of characters (letters, spaces, punctuation marks etc) to say what you want in a single tweet. I think it's 140 characters per tweet.
What I have put in bold is 140 characters long (I think!)

Just checked it's 140 "letter" characters so doesn't include spaces or punctuation marks..I think. I don't use twitter myself.

Correct, the easiest way to post something longer, is to do a blog, (like Dave Bowlers) post it onto a "cloud" server, & then put a link into the tweet. The "tiny" site even convert long URL's to shorter ones so that you meet the 140 character limit.
I use it all the time, but don't post much, I follow 76 people & 23 follow me. About half of the 76 I follow are to do with the Albion, the club itself, journo's, some of the players. It's a really powerful tool if you make it work for you, on the other hand, if you post something controversial, expect to be bombarded with sh*t. It is a global platform.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 15, 2016, 09:18:53 AM
Don't know why some people are convinced that there's going to be a takeover. Just wishful thinking by everyone. I understand that JP and WBA are watertight when it comes to stuff like this but I'm sure something would of come out even a snipette of info but literally nothing, just 'ITK' people of Twitter making up stuff.

We were very close to a takeover last year and nothing was released by the club until near the end of the process. Some ITK posters on here had said a take over was near and it turned out to be true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 15, 2016, 09:39:51 AM
Don't know why some people are convinced that there's going to be a takeover. Just wishful thinking by everyone. I understand that JP and WBA are watertight when it comes to stuff like this but I'm sure something would of come out even a snipette of info but literally nothing, just 'ITK' people of Twitter making up stuff.
even when we KNEW  there was a buyer entering due diligence because the club said as much, we knew nothing of who or where they were from. nothing leaked so how is this any different to last year?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 15, 2016, 10:32:30 AM
Its as plain as the nose on your face it aint happening, Pulis wants more money, first hint in press, JP passing on we have to sell to buy but no one has made a bid for any of our players let me think why?
There is no protection of the asset from the board, anyone with common sense never mind a business brain would know we aint going to cut it this year. Anyone with a brain at JP price and the need for major investment knows it aint cheap, why buy a team with relegation written all over it now when you pick up next season for a third of the price.
This team needs re building, if Phillips is the rebuild any buyer will note there being sold a custard.
We have no attacking intent in the team, Fletch can do the middle with the aid of Yacob defensively but there aint no attack guile in those 2, Mozza plays 10/15 minutes a game but pass and move he is never going to dominate and Phillips who is going to pass to him, who has the abilty to pass to him.
Hoofball for the last 2 seasons but some how stayed up, once we go down and I truly fear for us, all talk no action on the field, off the field sums us up. 
It would have happened by now, PSG good result or same old same old on a water logged pitch which assisted us to nulify another game.
Pessamist no, simply a Realist
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 15, 2016, 10:35:12 AM
We currently remind me of what Fulham were. Established but unfashionable Premier League side. A takeover happened then they dropped like a stone. I think the same would happen to us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 15, 2016, 10:51:34 AM
We currently remind me of what Fulham were. Established but unfashionable Premier League side. A takeover happened then they dropped like a stone. I think the same would happen to us.

I think Al Fayed just wanted rid of Fulham, JP appears to be ensuring we are sold for the right reasons, & to ensure continuity. Personally,I'm expecting it to be another dour season, but I don't think we'll be relegated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 15, 2016, 10:55:33 AM
I agree Pulis maintains a team, maintains a style, he does not rebuild or progress it.
At Stoke he got them up yes but then he even bored his mate Mr365 to the point he had to sack him.
I think we will go down without new blood throughout the club from top tomiddle to bottom.
Would I buy Albion as a fan yes, as a business man no unless there were tax breaks I could utilise,wanted by the Russain government or I wanted a toy to play with.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on July 15, 2016, 10:59:09 AM
Do you think the new owners would keep TP.?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 15, 2016, 11:04:08 AM
Is that cryptic for thats why theres been nothing happening.

If I were buying the club then I would pay him off 30 minutes ago. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 15, 2016, 11:04:17 AM
Its as plain as the nose on your face it aint happening, Pulis wants more money, first hint in press, JP passing on we have to sell to buy but no one has made a bid for any of our players let me think why?
There is no protection of the asset from the board, anyone with common sense never mind a business brain would know we aint going to cut it this year. Anyone with a brain at JP price and the need for major investment knows it aint cheap, why buy a team with relegation written all over it now when you pick up next season for a third of the price.
This team needs re building, if Phillips is the rebuild any buyer will note there being sold a custard.
We have no attacking intent in the team, Fletch can do the middle with the aid of Yacob defensively but there aint no attack guile in those 2, Mozza plays 10/15 minutes a game but pass and move he is never going to dominate and Phillips who is going to pass to him, who has the abilty to pass to him.
Hoofball for the last 2 seasons but some how stayed up, once we go down and I truly fear for us, all talk no action on the field, off the field sums us up. 
It would have happened by now, PSG good result or same old same old on a water logged pitch which assisted us to nulify another game.
Pessamist no, simply a Realist

no definitely a pessimist
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 15, 2016, 11:05:55 AM
Its as plain as the nose on your face it aint happening, Pulis wants more money, first hint in press, JP passing on we have to sell to buy but no one has made a bid for any of our players let me think why?
There is no protection of the asset from the board, anyone with common sense never mind a business brain would know we aint going to cut it this year. Anyone with a brain at JP price and the need for major investment knows it aint cheap, why buy a team with relegation written all over it now when you pick up next season for a third of the price.
This team needs re building, if Phillips is the rebuild any buyer will note there being sold a custard.
We have no attacking intent in the team, Fletch can do the middle with the aid of Yacob defensively but there aint no attack guile in those 2, Mozza plays 10/15 minutes a game but pass and move he is never going to dominate and Phillips who is going to pass to him, who has the abilty to pass to him.


Hoofball for the last 2 seasons but some how stayed up, once we go down and I truly fear for us, all talk no action on the field, off the field sums us up. 
It would have happened by now, PSG good result or same old same old on a water logged pitch which assisted us to nulify another game.
Pessamist no, simply a Realist

Surely a wind up?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 15, 2016, 11:20:05 AM
No wind up matee watched sh1te for 2 seasons plus, I can only say what Ive seen.

As a fan yes I would buy Albion but with JP price and the total rebuild of players and staff as a business unless I had no cares what so ever, my head says I would not touch the chalice.

Hoofball, kick and chase football which is dire, boring and old bunch of men blowing out of the ar$e$ in 2 lines of 5 trying to nulify any football whatsoever.

Hardly an advert for something is it.

How many shots on target did we have in the PSG friendly?

Whats our ambition?

If you were a business man would you buy Albion and why?

You honestly believe Pulis can do it again without major investment and would you trust him with your retiement fund?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 15, 2016, 11:30:57 AM
We currently remind me of what Fulham were. Established but unfashionable Premier League side. A takeover happened then they dropped like a stone. I think the same would happen to us.


Fulham being much more desirable being in London of course
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 15, 2016, 11:48:58 AM

You honestly believe Pulis can do it again without major investment and would you trust him with your retiement fund?

If it was worth £1.7 million you betcha, couldn't go wrong
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 15, 2016, 12:06:30 PM
Sick of the pathetic nonsense that some members throw around .I have been a Albion fan for over 50 years and even through the bad old days of 3rd division football and Bobby Gould/Alan Buckley Era`s I have never heard such rubbish that some are throwing at us now .Were an established premiership club with a long history and no matter what some people think we will be here long after Pulis has gone [ And he`s done what he was asked to do even if his brand of football is not to our liking ] and the club changes hands which it will in time , and if that time is now so be it I and thousands of other baggies fans will always stick behind them Whats the point in slagging them off that's not the way a fan should act
Just remember managers come and go but the ALBION will always be here
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 15, 2016, 04:43:12 PM
BH, the thought has just taken me that he doesn't want to sell the club at all. If you think back a few seasons, people were getting restless,and some even took a Peace Out banner to a game.
It was soon after this that he said he was selling up, again in close season, and initially with a window from May to July. Why a few months if something is for sale? He said he was taking it off the market because no one had shown an interest and would keep on running it.
He then said the club is for sale again,but this time he put a price on it so high that he didn't think anyone would meet it.
Again in close season, he said he had two interested parties, That must have shocked him) and was in the final stages with one of them, believed to be Chinese.
Near the start of the season, he said he coudn't agree their terms, (surprise surprise) but would continue running the club.
This season we have had the same clap trap. Close season again.
At the end of July you will hear him say, we had some interest but no firm offers, but i will continue to run the club until a buyer is found.
Put your house on it.
There is an old saying, don't kill the goose that lay's the golden eggs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on July 15, 2016, 06:27:56 PM
A new owner may provide a temporary vigour and enthusiasm but the brutal truth is that what we have on the pitch is relegation fodder .

Sometimes even in order to stand still you've got to do things differently or have a different plan . I'm seeing nothing .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 15, 2016, 06:56:02 PM
what's posters opinion on why Peace wants to sell anyway, I look at it this way.

1, he's a wealthy man and isn't selling up because the leccy bills due and he's short of cash.
2, If he has just had enough, why not retain ownership and employ someone to run the club with new ideas
3, is he genuinely looking for someone to take the club forward and this being his main objective an not money motivated.
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 15, 2016, 06:59:57 PM
JP is an accountant, I wonder what he really loves?

Jack Haywood was a wealthy man look what he did for the Dings, maybe JP doing the same and its all about our future.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 15, 2016, 07:10:17 PM
what's posters opinion on why Peace wants to sell anyway, I look at it this way.

1, he's a wealthy man and isn't selling up because the leccy bills due and he's short of cash.
2, If he has just had enough, why not retain ownership and employ someone to run the club with new ideas
3, is he genuinely looking for someone to take the club forward and this being his main objective an not money motivated.

3, but with caveats.

I genuinely believe he wants to ensure continuity, & will only sell to someone who acknowledges that WBAFC is a big part of  West Bromwich & the surrounding areas, & the club matters to the fans.
If his motivations had been purely selfish, he could have sold at a lower price & be well on his way to amassing a second fortune, by adding value to another football club. By setting the price high, it's out of reach to speculators, but attractive to some business person who want's to promote a "family" image.

Have a look at this for example


http://www.tata.com/ourcommitment/articlesinside/The-rainbow-effect (http://www.tata.com/ourcommitment/articlesinside/The-rainbow-effect)


But hey what do I know, he might be a greedy b*stard after all
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 15, 2016, 07:20:44 PM
what's posters opinion on why Peace wants to sell anyway, I look at it this way.

1, he's a wealthy man and isn't selling up because the leccy bills due and he's short of cash.
2, If he has just had enough, why not retain ownership and employ someone to run the club with new ideas
3, is he genuinely looking for someone to take the club forward and this being his main objective an not money motivated.

I think for Peace he's always had a plan up until the past 3 seasons or so - and that is to improve his shares in the club. Now he's stuck and wants to cash out, so in that sense he's 'had enough'. Having an asset worth £150 million and £150 million in cash is a huge difference.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 15, 2016, 10:44:45 PM
3, but with caveats.

I genuinely believe he wants to ensure continuity, & will only sell to someone who acknowledges that WBAFC is a big part of  West Bromwich & the surrounding areas, & the club matters to the fans.
If his motivations had been purely selfish, he could have sold at a lower price & be well on his way to amassing a second fortune, by adding value to another football club. By setting the price high, it's out of reach to speculators, but attractive to some business person who want's to promote a "family" image.

Have a look at this for example


http://www.tata.com/ourcommitment/articlesinside/The-rainbow-effect (http://www.tata.com/ourcommitment/articlesinside/The-rainbow-effect)


But hey what do I know, he might be a greedy b*stard after all
never knew they got so involved in community projects, its great to read about it and all credit to Tata.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 15, 2016, 10:52:35 PM
So baggies bid 9 million for schlupp. Which seems a bit odd if we are been taken over. Or is it a smoke screen? Only god knows. Schlupp not a bad move in all honesty.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 15, 2016, 10:58:48 PM
So baggies bid 9 million for schlupp. Which seems a bit odd if we are been taken over. Or is it a smoke screen? Only god knows. Schlupp not a bad move in all honesty.

Why would it seem odd if we are being taken over? Any takeover will take time to be ratified by the relevant authorities so its likely that by the time one went through they wouldn't have an opportunity to do too much during this window. On the other hand could those funds have been suddenly released to make the bid knowing that a takeover is very close? No one knows.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 16, 2016, 08:15:19 AM
A bid for Schlupp or any other transfer business is not indicative one way or another of a imminent takeover. It makes no difference as to the price of the club and as the club is a going concern there is no reason why it cannot trade normally.

It is in neither the sellers nor the buyers best interest to wait on the outcome of takeover talks. Unless the club trades normally there is a far greater risk of relegation next season. Given the complexity of a £150m deal until it is signed sealed and delivered no one can take it for granted. So Peace could easily find himself owning the club going into next season regardless of where takeover talks are right now. Equally the new owners would also know that is the case and wouldn't stand in the way of the club signing players within a budget which would form part of the sale agreement.

The only circumstances where a new owner would try to veto signings is where they have a strong view as to which players the club should sign rather than the overall cost of the signings. If this were the case then it would be an early indication that the new owners were a Tan rather than a Liebherr
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bazabaggie73 on July 16, 2016, 09:59:59 PM
All this it's happening, it's not is doing the club no good, it's 28 days till the start of the season and our squad is weaker than last season, I don't understand why the club make even a short statement saying the we're in talks with potential new owners then at least us fans know where we stand regardless if we like it or not
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on July 16, 2016, 10:13:53 PM
All this it's happening, it's not is doing the club no good, it's 28 days till the start of the season and our squad is weaker than last season, I don't understand why the club make even a short statement saying the we're in talks with potential new owners then at least us fans know where we stand regardless if we like it or not

What difference would saying anything make to the club? Apart from wetting off the potential buyers?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 16, 2016, 10:52:28 PM
West Bromwich Albion will become the latest Premier League club to fall into foreign hands in the next fortnight, reports Neil Moxley in the Sunday People.

Owner Jeremy Peace is ‘close’ to sealing a £150million deal for the Baggies as he brings to an end a process that has been on-going for the past two years.

The newcomers are reportedly monied Chinese – and will have significant cash to spend on a club that has been prudently run since the out-going chairman assumed control 15 years ago.

Peace himself is set to quit with chief executive Mark Jenkins likely to follow. It is understood that sporting director Richard Garlick could move into a boardroom position to help smooth the transition.

At present, exact details are difficult to glean with the Baggies’ hierarchy determined to keep as much information as possible under wraps.

However, even though it is relatively late in the summer to complete a handover, West Brom have been finalising their arrangements for several weeks.

They have been to sanctioning a deal with investors from the Far East before. But a source said: ‘You’ll be able to measure their wealth in billions, not millions.’

Rumous have been circulating the Black Country for some time that Wang Jianlin – China’s richest man – has been looking to build up a stake in an English club.

He already has a 20 per cent interest in Atletico Madrid and a move into the Premier League would be the logical next step.

West Brom chief Tony Pulis has been relatively quiet in the transfer market so far, adding only Matt Phillips from QPR to his squad, along with re-signing James Morrison who was able to quit the club on a free transfer.

It fits that with negotiations taking place in the background that Peace – along with Spurs’ Daniel Levy – is possibly one of the most hard-nosed owners in the top-flight – has been keeping his cash close to his chest in case of a possible exit.

Incredibly, when the deal is confirmed, it means that every west Midlands club in the top two divisions of English football is likely to have owners from the Far East.

In fact, the only major clubs in the Premier League and Championship with English owners will be the Coates family at Stoke City and Mel Morris at Derby County.

It is touch and go whether West Brom will make their announcement before rivals Wolverhampton Wanderers who are also in the midst of a takeover.

Super agent Jorge Mendes – representative of Manchester United boss Jose Mourinho among others – is part of the group attempting to purchase the club from building magnate Steve Morgan.

That deal to is nearing completion. However, it is understood that the widely circulated name of Robin Li – founder of internet search engine Baidu – is NOT the buyer.

Li has been linked with Wolves but sources close to the club have indicated that the country’s sixth most wealthy individual will not be following up acquiring a controlling stake in AC Milan by adding Wolves to his portfolio of sports’ businesses.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-brom-closing-150million-takeover-8434124?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 16, 2016, 10:55:02 PM
Well well well. Let's hope some of the things in that article are true because I think we need this to progress to the next level (possibly just to keep up with others).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 16, 2016, 10:55:58 PM
Name check Wang Jianlin but not necessarily in the context o him being the buyer. His name won't go away though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 16, 2016, 11:10:46 PM
I wouldn't trust Neil Moxley if he told me tomorrow was Sunday without some alternative and ideally verifiable source.

Pure speculation based on rumours and a little bit of supposition. A takeover might be close but it equally might not
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 16, 2016, 11:49:24 PM
Its on!!! 😉
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 17, 2016, 12:03:54 AM
I wouldn't trust Neil Moxley if he told me tomorrow was Sunday without some alternative and ideally verifiable source.

Pure speculation based on rumours and a little bit of supposition. A takeover might be close but it equally might not
Yep, it's also The Mirror for gods sake...

What really annoys me is how papers can legally say things like ' "It's billions, not millions" - a source said'. Unless it's a verified source who isn't anonymous then I will never believe stuff like this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: superbobgod on July 17, 2016, 12:05:00 AM
I dont understand - standaman! You have been telling us its going through behind the scenes, and now Moxley suggests it is, you are saying dont believe a word from him??

I have always found him and John Percy reliable when they break something!

Although this should of been sorted start of the summer i really hope it is true, we cant afford penny pinching Peace any longer!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 17, 2016, 12:06:34 AM
Reads as a piece entirely designed to troll Albion fans, ie. Happening imminently, Wang Jianlin, Billions not Millions, Dingles not getting their mega rich Chinese businessman.

Too good to be true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 17, 2016, 12:07:01 AM
Chinese doesn't make sense with all the work we've been doing in India.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 17, 2016, 12:48:41 AM
Your all being pesimistic!! Its on 😉
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WD40 on July 17, 2016, 01:07:35 AM
The dalian wanda group are investing 10 billion in India over the next ten years there company logo is also blue and white :)
I don't know anything though I'm just looking like everyone else
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 17, 2016, 01:31:06 AM
I'm expecting the express and dingle and the mails, wide of the mark comment early tomo. Anyone else bord of this topic? I'd like an answer one way or another but I feel this will drag and drag. I'm so fed up of these stories, I get excited just to be told it's wide of the mark or nowhere near anything being complete etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 17, 2016, 02:31:37 AM
Chinese doesn't make sense with all the work we've been doing in India.
been doing a bit in both, but the India stuff I see as getting access to Indian players and getting our foot in the door that way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 17, 2016, 07:01:51 AM
The article says you can count their wealth in billions so I genuinely think that it is the wanda group. Birmingham Mail spoke to that professor Chadwick who had been given a name of an investor looking at a Midlands club and then they wrote that article about wang jianlin a couple of days later.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 17, 2016, 07:48:53 AM
Reads as a piece entirely designed to troll Albion fans, ie. Happening imminently, Wang Jianlin, Billions not Millions, Dingles not getting their mega rich Chinese businessman.

Too good to be true.
I think the reporter who wrote the article is also a wolves fan. :-\
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 17, 2016, 08:06:55 AM
Anybody know how long this shirt sponsorship deal lasts?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 17, 2016, 08:15:09 AM
Just because the new owner has billions doesn't mean he'll spend it. Lerner was a billionaire. Billionaires don't become rich by bring frivilous.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ian66 on July 17, 2016, 08:19:18 AM
Anybody know how long this shirt sponsorship deal lasts?
2 Year deal
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 17, 2016, 08:42:15 AM
2 Year deal

So up to Season end 2018?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 17, 2016, 09:37:04 AM
I dont understand - standaman! You have been telling us its going through behind the scenes, and now Moxley suggests it is, you are saying dont believe a word from him??

I have always found him and John Percy reliable when they break something!

Although this should of been sorted start of the summer i really hope it is true, we cant afford penny pinching Peace any longer!

I have always been of the opinion that the takeover might happen but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. The fact that rumours persisted lead me to think there was some serious interest but how advanced I couldn't say.

My issue with Moxley is as journalist he will run with speculative stories weaving the few known facts with a large measure of conjecture and a few complete red herrings e.g the reference to Jialin. Personally on this issue the business correspondents are more likely to have a line on the story than a football writer.

Incedently whoever buys the club is almost certainly a billionaire by default if the sale price is £150m.Overall the Moxley story doesn't add much to our knowledge on this matter


.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigCyrille1975 on July 17, 2016, 09:41:13 AM
I think the reporter who wrote the article is also a wolves fan. :-\

Neil Moxley is a Bluenose.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on July 17, 2016, 09:44:58 AM
Not wishing to put a dampener on things but 2 weeks ago Moxley reported that a deal had been agreed to sell Saido to Stoke for £16m. So bear in mind not everything he writes is based on fact. :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on July 17, 2016, 09:56:58 AM
Not wishing to put a dampener on things but 2 weeks ago Moxley reported that a deal had been agreed to sell Saido to Stoke for £16m. So bear in mind not everything he writes is based on fact. :o

Birmingham Mail seem pretty confident, they chose to copy and paste the same article  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slate on July 17, 2016, 10:04:05 AM
I don't need viagra this morning. Result!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 17, 2016, 10:25:20 AM
I will believe it when it is official, the story has wind up written all over it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 17, 2016, 10:40:57 AM
Not wishing to put a dampener on things but 2 weeks ago Moxley reported that a deal had been agreed to sell Saido to Stoke for £16m. So bear in mind not everything he writes is based on fact. :o

That's the same guy who said Berahino would be a Tottenham player in 24 hours, twelve months ago. Throw enough poo and see what sticks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 17, 2016, 11:19:24 AM
If,and i say if we are taken over, does anyone know if the plans to rebuild the West Stand were passed and approved?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on July 17, 2016, 11:31:55 AM
Birmingham Mail seem pretty confident, they chose to copy and paste the same article  :)

They're owned by same group aren't they.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 17, 2016, 11:37:22 AM
If,and i say if we are taken over, does anyone know if the plans to rebuild the West Stand were passed and approved?
I think they were awhile ago and the decided against it. I don't know how planning permission it lasts for though
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 17, 2016, 11:46:52 AM
A different question. The club often quotes an undisclosed fee for player transfers so what is the situation about the price/value of a possible takeover. Can that remain undisclosed when completed? I know the club is not a listed company so perhaps we will never know what any potential new owner(s) pays.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 17, 2016, 11:56:24 AM
There will never be a better time than now to sell. We are the only West Midland side in the prem, and are a club with no debt and massive potential.
People say we don't need a bigger ground, but i would argue if someone invested into a superb stadium and signed top players we would fill the place.
Just think of the ethnic support,mainly asian from West Brom, Smethwick, Handsworth etc we could tap into.
Most of the young of these support the likes of Man U, Chelsea atc, but not if they had a big rich club on their doorstep.
Now or never imo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 17, 2016, 12:04:47 PM
As above if a super rich owner came in, invested and bought big name players we'd grow in support at an unbelieveable rate and would need a new stand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 17, 2016, 12:09:46 PM
The dream for me would be a rich owner comes in and keeps himself to himself and quietly and progressively invests in the club and its infrastructure.

With good investment in the playing squad and a winning mentality, if we stay as the only west midlands club for a few years then we could certainly cement ourselves as a 'best of the rest' club finishing in the top 10 every year and pushing for europe.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 17, 2016, 12:10:29 PM
To be fair to JP he said that he would only sell to someone who could take the club forward and invest money in he club including players and infrastructure. Pulis contract situation will also be a part of this and would believe that things are pretty close. The owners may have another coach in mind so why hand TP anything more. He served his purpose for JP, kept us in the league and the money from the new TV contract. Hopefully this is the start of the growth of our great club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on July 17, 2016, 12:32:49 PM
To be fair to JP he said that he would only sell to someone who could take the club forward and invest money in he club including players and infrastructure. Pulis contract situation will also be a part of this and would believe that things are pretty close. The owners may have another coach in mind so why hand TP anything more. He served his purpose for JP, kept us in the league and the money from the new TV contract. Hopefully this is the start of the growth of our great club

You can't not invest in a team because a takeover might occur at some point in the future, even if something is actually happening, what if it fell through.

I'd also be severely concerned about the football sense of any takeover team who think sacking a manager straight after takeover would be a sensible thing to do. Even if you didn't want Pulis as manager the smartest thing by far would be to leave him for the season rather than parachuting someone in at this stage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on July 17, 2016, 12:34:46 PM
A takeover is either going to be a failure or a success, so I hope we do get taken over and take a risk.

I trust Peace will sell to the right man but let's hope we know the position within the next week or so as we have a tough season ahead of us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: fatboy_coach on July 17, 2016, 12:39:47 PM
I hate to be a pessimist but if you google Dalian Group West Bromwich Albion the Mirror was running the same story last July and the July before (2014) they were running the group buying Southampton. Smacks of them trying to link these guys with anyone in the EPL  :'(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 17, 2016, 12:48:09 PM
I hate to be a pessimist but if you google Dalian Group West Bromwich Albion the Mirror was running the same story last July and the July before (2014) they were running the group buying Southampton. Smacks of them trying to link these guys with anyone in the EPL  :'(

Unfortunately quite true
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 17, 2016, 12:51:05 PM
Sounds like a takeover will happen this summer because of background noise and speculation. I would never trust the mirror though , no credibility for me, they, like many papers are click baiters earning money from chucking anything out there to entice people onto their sites.

Whoever takes us over will likely continue to operate as we have done albeit with one or two big signings initially to get fans onside in my view. I wouldn't expect it to greatly change our future in the next few years , especially with so many other club with rich backers. A good foreign owned model is Leicester of course, clear plan, football interest , haven't thrown stupid money at it and respect the integrity and history of the club - oh and successful too!


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 17, 2016, 01:03:55 PM
Heard this is basically done and that the transfers are all going through them already. Sounds right as theirs no way JP would sanction £9mill on a left back :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 17, 2016, 01:33:39 PM
There will never be a better time than now to sell. We are the only West Midland side in the prem, and are a club with no debt and massive potential.
People say we don't need a bigger ground, but i would argue if someone invested into a superb stadium and signed top players we would fill the place.
Just think of the ethnic support,mainly asian from West Brom, Smethwick, Handsworth etc we could tap into.
Most of the young of these support the likes of Man U, Chelsea atc, but not if they had a big rich club on their doorstep.
Now or never imo.

Can't see a lot of ethnic support from Chinese owners
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 17, 2016, 01:55:08 PM
Can't see a lot of ethnic support from Chinese owners
He means the local Indian lads from Handsworth etc who would be more attracted to us if we became successful. Case in point about 10 minutes from the ground against Liverpool I saw an Indian bloke and his two sons leave their house in Liverpool kits to go to the game, it was a bit sad really.
However, if we improved you could see people like this swaying to us more - and that is a good thing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 17, 2016, 02:05:22 PM
Heard this is basically done and that the transfers are all going through them already. Sounds right as theirs no way JP would sanction £9mill on a left back :D

This is what I was thinking.
Also read that you are reliable, so fingers crossed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on July 17, 2016, 02:10:59 PM
Heard this is basically done and that the transfers are all going through them already. Sounds right as theirs no way JP would sanction £9mill on a left back :D

We spent 8m on Chester last season who the plan was to play out of position at right back, 9m with the new TV deal is nothing unusual.

Besides which it would be madness to have a prospective owners sanctioning deals before they take over, there's tonnes that can go wrong, things not even in their control. I tend to think if a takeover were close there'd be a lot more sources saying it rather than just the Mirror who have been repeating a similar story for the last 12 months. You won't go short of precious article hits linking clubs to a billionaire takeover.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieVN on July 17, 2016, 02:15:11 PM
Was going to say the same about the 8million we spent on Chester last year.

As for the takeover, it's no different from signing a new player. Sometimes the player is a success, sometimes they aren't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: botters on July 17, 2016, 02:48:20 PM
As above if a super rich owner came in, invested and bought big name players we'd grow in support at an unbelieveable rate and would need a new stand.

I think that we would probably need a new stadium! 60000 seater with designated standing areas for home supporters. That would be great. 😊
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 17, 2016, 02:56:48 PM
I think that we would probably need a new stadium! 60000 seater with designated standing areas for home supporters. That would be great. 😊

Really? You really think our support base, built up over 130 years, would grow from 25,000 to 60,000 overnight? I wish I could be so optimistic.

I'd love it to be so, but I honestly doubt it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 17, 2016, 03:21:10 PM
He means the local Indian lads from Handsworth etc who would be more attracted to us if we became successful. Case in point about 10 minutes from the ground against Liverpool I saw an Indian bloke and his two sons leave their house in Liverpool kits to go to the game, it was a bit sad really.
However, if we improved you could see people like this swaying to us more - and that is a good thing.

I know what he means, but I just can't see what would motivate anybody to spend shed loads of money on WBA. If it's as a publicity vehicle for their products, they'd spend just as much as they need to maintain an EPL presence, no more than what we're spending now. Additionally, it would have a life cycle so they'd be here for say 5 years & then we'd be up for sale again.
The Wolves & Villa sales make sense, they're buying a run-down club on the cheap, doing it up, & then selling it at a profit, Albion's not the same.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on July 17, 2016, 03:22:15 PM
Really? You really think our support base, built up over 130 years, would grow from 25,000 to 60,000 overnight? I wish I could be so optimistic.

I'd love it to be so, but I honestly doubt it.

I think he was being sarcastic  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 17, 2016, 03:59:11 PM
I think he was being sarcastic  ;D

Oh right. Sorry. Being thick.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 17, 2016, 04:21:47 PM
Our support has fallen to 25,000 over the years due to several things. Making the ground smaller for one, something we continue to do. I was on the ground last time we had 40,000 in 1976. Soon after we made it 36,000 and it has fallen even more  since.
In the 60's we had almost 40.000 on the ground for a Wednesday cup replay against Colchester United.
In the 50's we passed the 60,000 mark on at least two occassions, something Wolves never managed.
A fall to the third tier, the rebuilding of a smaller all seater ground, no pay at the gate and above all lack of ambition have all contributed.
So too has admission prices. But with a larger revamped ground and a bit of ambition i reckon we would command gates of 30,000.
West Ham who never enjoyed gates our size have sold 50,000 ST's due to their move to the Olympic stadium.
It's all about marketing the club to it's fans and sadly Albion have never been good at that.

A stagnation in football standards and signings drive away fans like myself. I don't earn a lot and i will be buggered if i give it towards a rich mans retirement scheme, and see no improvement on the field.
I don't support Albion to see how much profit we have made while a club like Leicester win the league.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: botters on July 17, 2016, 04:24:30 PM
Really? You really think our support base, built up over 130 years, would grow from 25,000 to 60,000 overnight? I wish I could be so optimistic.

I'd love it to be so, but I honestly doubt it.

I really think that if the midlands had a big club they could easily get 40000 plus, the vile were getting these sort of attendances a few years ago. We are the only team in the West Midlands in the premier league so there is a large potential fan base out there if we syphon some vile fans and other big clubs fans in the area, by being a rich and successful club and team we could easily attract around 40000. Ok 60000 may be pushing it but with a similar population to the North West then why couldn't we get similar him attendances to say Manchester City.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on July 17, 2016, 04:32:56 PM
Our support has fallen to 25,000 over the years due to several things. Making the ground smaller for one, something we continue to do. I was on the ground last time we had 40,000 in 1976. Soon after we made it 36,000 and it has fallen even more  since.
In the 60's we had almost 40.000 on the ground for a Wednesday cup replay against Colchester United.
In the 50's we passed the 60,000 mark on at least two occassions, something Wolves never managed.
A fall to the third tier, the rebuilding of a smaller all seater ground, no pay at the gate and above all lack of ambition have all contributed.
So too has admission prices. But with a larger revamped ground and a bit of ambition i reckon we would command gates of 30,000.
West Ham who never enjoyed gates our size have sold 50,000 ST's due to their move to the Olympic stadium.
It's all about marketing the club to it's fans and sadly Albion have never been good at that.

A stagnation in football standards and signings drive away fans like myself. I don't earn a lot and i will be buggered if i give it towards a rich mans retirement scheme, and see no improvement on the field.
I don't support Albion to see how much profit we have made while a club like Leicester win the league.


Bang on right. Even our own fans don't realise the potential of this club. It's enough to make you cry. In 1979 we were one of BRITAIN'S PREMIER CLUBS now look at us. Everything about us is suppressed and small time and our "fans" really don't help they just harm the club but they just cannot see it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: botters on July 17, 2016, 04:36:14 PM

Bang on right. Even our own fans don't realise the potential of this club. It's enough to make you cry. In 1979 we were one of BRITAIN'S PREMIER CLUBS now look at us. Everything about us is suppressed and small time and our "fans" really don't help they just harm the club but they just cannot see it.

Absolutely spot on, we have to have the ambition that we can again become one of the top six teams and clubs in this country.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 17, 2016, 04:39:56 PM
I have found that strange Botters,fanns who think of us as a smalltime club, maybe they were born in the 80's and 90's, and yet think Peace is a giant.
West Bromwich Albion didn't come into existance in 2003.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 17, 2016, 04:41:46 PM
Our support has fallen to 25,000 over the years due to several things. Making the ground smaller for one, something we continue to do. I was on the ground last time we had 40,000 in 1976. Soon after we made it 36,000 and it has fallen even more  since.
In the 60's we had almost 40.000 on the ground for a Wednesday cup replay against Colchester United.
In the 50's we passed the 60,000 mark on at least two occassions, something Wolves never managed.
A fall to the third tier, the rebuilding of a smaller all seater ground, no pay at the gate and above all lack of ambition have all contributed.
So too has admission prices. But with a larger revamped ground and a bit of ambition i reckon we would command gates of 30,000.
West Ham who never enjoyed gates our size have sold 50,000 ST's due to their move to the Olympic stadium.
It's all about marketing the club to it's fans and sadly Albion have never been good at that.

A stagnation in football standards and signings drive away fans like myself. I don't earn a lot and i will be buggered if i give it towards a rich mans retirement scheme, and see no improvement on the field.
I don't support Albion to see how much profit we have made while a club like Leicester win the league.

I think it's a lot more complex than that.
First of all, there's a lot more to do at weekends now than just football. I would say shopping is the number 1 consumer pastime. Modern families tend to go out together now, they hardly ever did when I was younger, Dad & the lads went to footy, Mum & the girls did shopping. Then there's participative sport, Golf, for example has got much less expensive to play, & so more people do.
All seater stadiums are designed to attract families, it's somewhere safe to take the family, as soon as it's not safe any more, families won't come.
We've moved on since the 70's, & funnily enough it's a recurring theme throughout this forum.

Same with this change of ownership for the Albion, it might be as simple as exchanging one owner for another, but I've got a hunch it's a lot more complex than that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on July 17, 2016, 04:43:16 PM
We have had the longest spell of 20k+ average attendances over the last 15 years than at any time in our history   8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 17, 2016, 04:45:15 PM
I have found that strange Botters,fanns who think of us as a smalltime club, maybe they were born in the 80's and 90's, and yet think Peace is a giant.
West Bromwich Albion didn't come into existance in 2003.

I was born in the 40's & I wouldn't necessarily say JP is a giant, but I do understand what he does & why he does it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on July 17, 2016, 04:57:00 PM
I certainly wont be going again just to get bored senseless, until whoever takes over changes the manager. Dunno about 60,000......more like back to 16,000 at this rate until we see a better style of football, and more tolerant stewarding!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionDaz on July 17, 2016, 05:15:42 PM
JP arrived on the scene,just as we was turning the corner,as there was finally some money in the coffers,after previous good judgement in the transfer market,I think the previous Chairman a Mr Hale from Sheffield,who actually put his own money in the Club,I think deserves more credit than he actually got.
JP didn't even buy the Club with his own money,yet here he is about to benefit even more from the Albion.Makes me sick and have never liked him and can't understand why a lot of you defend him.He isn't even a fan of the Albion,he just a saw a way to further his standing and bank balance.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 17, 2016, 05:15:47 PM

In 1979 we were one of BRITAIN'S PREMIER CLUBS now look at us. Everything about us is suppressed and small time and our "fans" really don't help they just harm the club but they just cannot see it.
In the 1978-79 season, when we finished 3rd in Div 1, our average attendance was 26,702, with a highest attendance of  35,166 (v Villa) and a lowest of 17,499 (in the penultimate home game against Southampton). There were 9 clubs with a better average attendance than us. In descending order they were:

Manchester United
Liverpool
Arsenal
Manchester City
Everton
Tottenham Hotspur
Aston Villa
Nottingham Forest
Leeds United

The following season we averaged 22,735, with a lowest of 11,735 v Bolton. That season, there were 16 clubs with better average attendances than us, 4 of whom were in Division 2!

Consequently, I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make about our support at that time? The 1978-79 season was an exception rather than the rule. The golden era for us attendance-wise was from 1947 until 1959, when there were only 3 seasons where we averaged less than 30,000. Even in the season where we had our best ever average of 38,819 (1949-50, when we had our highest ever league attendance of 60,945 v Wolves), there were 12 clubs with better average attendances.

We've currently justifiably acquired a reputation for playing the most dour and unadventurous football in the Premier League, yet people are expecting new fans to come flocking to watch us if the capacity was increased?

Sources: "Albion: A Complete Record 1879-1987" by Tony Matthews and european-football-statistics.co.uk (http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/nav/attnengleague.htm)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on July 17, 2016, 05:18:53 PM

Bang on right. Even our own fans don't realise the potential of this club. It's enough to make you cry. In 1979 we were one of BRITAIN'S PREMIER CLUBS now look at us. Everything about us is suppressed and small time and our "fans" really don't help they just harm the club but they just cannot see it.

I like your use of the word suppressed as that is what it is particularly in the last 3 years. People blame Pulis for the football and rightly so but the truth of it is  yes Clarke did ok for a short time but we should really have pressed on after Hodgson and didn't hence why pulis was needed to fight the fires .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionDaz on July 17, 2016, 05:26:29 PM
In the 1978-79 season, when we finished 3rd in Div 1, our average attendance was 26,702, with a highest attendance of  35,166 (v Villa) and a lowest of 17,499 (in the penultimate home game against Southampton). There were 9 clubs with a better average attendance than us. In descending order they were:

Manchester United
Liverpool
Arsenal
Manchester City
Everton
Tottenham Hotspur
Aston Villa
Nottingham Forest
Leeds United

The following season we averaged 22,735, with a lowest of 11,735 v Bolton. That season, there were 16 clubs with better average attendances than us, 4 of whom were in Division 2!

Consequently, I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make about our support at that time? The 1978-79 season was an exception rather than the rule. The golden era for us attendance-wise was from 1947 until 1959, when there were only 3 seasons where we averaged less than 30,000. Even in the season where we had our best ever average of 38,819 (1949-50, when we had our highest ever league attendance of 60,945 v Wolves), there were 12 clubs with better average attendances.

We've currently justifiably acquired a reputation for playing the most dour and unadventurous football in the Premier League, yet people are expecting new fans to come flocking to watch us if the capacity was increased?

Sources: "Albion: A Complete Record 1879-1987" by Tony Matthews and european-football-statistics.co.uk (http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/nav/attnengleague.htm)

If you was a supporter in that era,you would know that a lot of club's fiddled there attendances to avoid tax payments,there was also a fair bit of sneaking in,ie going in under your fathers legs,or just clamber over the fences which I did :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 17, 2016, 05:28:52 PM
If you was a supporter in that era,you would know that a lot of club's fiddled there attendances to avoid tax payments,there was also a fair bit of sneaking in,ie going in under your fathers legs,or just clamber over the fences which I did :)
I was a supporter in that era, but too young to be thinking about tax evasion by the club. I'm sure sneaking in, in the manner you described, had been taking place for time immemorial up to then!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionDaz on July 17, 2016, 05:33:26 PM
Didn't say there wasn't,just stating that attendances was higher than officially declared by the club,announcer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 17, 2016, 05:44:31 PM
Didn't say there wasn't,just stating that attendances was higher than officially declared by the club,announcer.

But the truth is that all clubs did the same thing, so if we were fiddling, so was everyone else.

The truth is, despite the protestations, we don't get big, big gates. It isn't possible that we could, it will just take time to get there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 17, 2016, 06:14:48 PM
Neil Moxley is a Bluenose.
same thing, he knows nothing  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 17, 2016, 06:24:23 PM
A bit off-topic but it's pointless going on about our glory days, as it is going on about our dark days. Historically we're a mid-table top-league club, which is roughly where we are right now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 17, 2016, 06:31:15 PM
shouldn't we change the title from official takeover thread to
rumoured takeover thread.
just saying because its mostly bull.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on July 17, 2016, 06:37:13 PM
Apparently it's definitely going ahead. Neil Moxley's article was written with a copy and paste job from one of my dad's mates who claims the takeover will happen.

Edit - Richard Garlick will be new chairman
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on July 17, 2016, 06:38:10 PM
Just seen this posted on facebook no link though

A WBA statement read: "Chairman Jeremy Peace today confirmed that exclusivity has been granted to one party interested in the purchase of West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd.
"This follows discussions with several interested parties in the wake of his decision earlier this year to consider strategic options for the future development and legacy of the Club.
"This process should be completed by the end of this month and in the meantime, the Club wishes to assure supporters preparations for the new season will remain unaffected.
"The Chairman, Head Coach Tony Pulis, Chief Executive Mark Jenkins and Richard Garlick, the Director of Football Administration, have met to discuss and progress future transfer targets. "They remain in constant dialogue over the re-shaping of the first-team squad for the 2015/16 Barclays Premier League campaign."

'2015/16 Barclays Premier League campaign'.....  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 17, 2016, 06:38:53 PM
Just seen this posted on facebook no link though

A WBA statement read: "Chairman Jeremy Peace today confirmed that exclusivity has been granted to one party interested in the purchase of West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd.
"This follows discussions with several interested parties in the wake of his decision earlier this year to consider strategic options for the future development and legacy of the Club.
"This process should be completed by the end of this month and in the meantime, the Club wishes to assure supporters preparations for the new season will remain unaffected.
"The Chairman, Head Coach Tony Pulis, Chief Executive Mark Jenkins and Richard Garlick, the Director of Football Administration, have met to discuss and progress future transfer targets. "They remain in constant dialogue over the re-shaping of the first-team squad for the 2015/16 Barclays Premier League campaign."

Last summer mate...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on July 17, 2016, 06:39:35 PM
'2015/16 Barclays Premier League campaign'.....  ::)  ::)

Did not see that! Will remove my post :-[
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 17, 2016, 06:51:50 PM
Apparently it's definitely going ahead. Neil Moxley's article was written with a copy and paste job from one of my dad's mates who claims the takeover will happen.

Edit - Richard Garlick will be new chairman
god help us if Garlick ever becomes chairman, hasn't he already been shuffled around a bit until they found a job he was capable of ?.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 17, 2016, 06:53:38 PM
Last summer mate...

At least they won't have to write a new press release, just change the date and CE
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 17, 2016, 07:03:07 PM
West Bromwich Albion could be sold to Chinese investors by the end of the month, according to a report.

Jeremy Peace, who has been looking for a buyer for two years, is said to be “close” to sealing a £150million deal for the Baggies.

The Sunday People claims that China’s richest man, Wang Jianlin, has been looking into ownership in the Premier League, having already built up a 20 per cent stake in Atletico Madrid.

Jianlin is reported to be worth £21.7 billion and he therefore would have significant cash to spend at the Hawthorns.

Peace is expected to quit with chief executive Mark Jenkins likely to follow, while sporting director Richard Garlick could move into a boardroom position to help any proposed deal run smoothly.

Earlier this month the club confirmed they had signed an exclusive sale agreement with a group from the Far East after their hopes to buy Aston Villa were snubbed by Randy Lerner.

A WBA statement read: “Chairman Jeremy Peace today confirmed that exclusivity has been granted to one party interested in the purchase of West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd.

“This follows discussions with several interested parties in the wake of his decision earlier this year to consider strategic options for the future development and legacy of the Club.

“This process should be completed by the end of this month and in the meantime, the Club wishes to assure supporters preparations for the new season will remain unaffected.

“The Chairman, Head Coach Tony Pulis, Chief Executive Mark Jenkins and Richard Garlick, the Director of Football Administration, have met to discuss and progress future transfer targets.

“They remain in constant dialogue over the re-shaping of the first-team squad for the 2015/16 Barclays Premier League campaign.”



 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 17, 2016, 07:05:54 PM
That's from last year, geoff
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 17, 2016, 07:10:03 PM
Chinese investors close to buying West Brom – report
Date published: Sunday 17th July 2016 3:48

Off teamtalk.com
so they have just recycled it with todays date. >:(  SORRY
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on July 17, 2016, 09:12:56 PM
Following the latest round of takeover talks, it does seem that much of the speculation is regurgitated from previous reports. However, looking at the current financial climate (e.g. the currency situation) it does seem extremely viable and likely that from a business point of view, a Premier Leauge club...for sale in Sterling, and with the immediate financial future secured can only enhance potential suitors as things stand. Forget football, any potential buyer would see us as an extremely attractive proposition the way things stand - likely buyers are able to shave 15% or so off last seasons selling price depending on currency plays. I for one would be amazed if there wasn't serious serious interest, however we all know Peace loves to move the goals at the last minute.....hence things could well hit last snags at the final hour! Our lack of transfer activity doesn't concern me in the slightest as I can well believe the brakes are on until a possible takeover reaches an outcome either way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on July 17, 2016, 10:52:39 PM
Trusted ITK
Steven B
‏@StevenWBA
Expecting more regarding #wba takeover within next 72 hours. Richard Garlick/Nicky Hammond prepared for the transition. Just a case of when.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 17, 2016, 11:02:53 PM
How much money are they worth?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on July 17, 2016, 11:09:38 PM
How much money are they worth?

Truly a guessing game at the moment, we don't know who it is or how much they are worth. Lets hope its Wang Jianglin.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 17, 2016, 11:29:39 PM
Truly a guessing game at the moment, we don't know who it is or how much they are worth. Lets hope its Wang Jianglin.

It's not going to be Wang Jianglin.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 18, 2016, 05:50:40 AM
If we are sold then i think it would be a consortium, could well be the Wanda group who invest,but not Jianlin who would be the hands on owner.
This would be the reason we would have a new chairman.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 18, 2016, 06:01:16 AM
Interestingly, the blog Bowler's delivery, warns against becoming a place of entertainment like Alton Towers. Could be that something is in the offing, or it could be the clubs way of preparing us for a gentle let down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 18, 2016, 08:25:25 AM
If we are sold then i think it would be a consortium, could well be the Wanda group who invest,but not Jianlin who would be the hands on owner.
This would be the reason we would have a new chairman.

We would have a new chairman because the old chairman's sold his shares
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 18, 2016, 08:37:14 AM
Interestingly, the blog Bowler's delivery, warns against becoming a place of entertainment like Alton Towers. Could be that something is in the offing, or it could be the clubs way of preparing us for a gentle let down.

If there is a connection, (& I have to congratulate you on your perception, got to admit I didn't see it until you pointed it out), I'd say any announcement on change of ownership will make 2016 tolerable again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 18, 2016, 10:12:43 AM
E&S's latest comments on the takeover along with Berahino bid. They are playing down on the takeover being imminent and the net worth of the potential buyer. You can form your own opinion on the validity of what they say.

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/07/18/crystal-palace-coming-in-for-west-brom-star-saido-berahino/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 18, 2016, 11:00:55 AM
E&S's latest comments on the takeover along with Berahino bid. They are playing down on the takeover being imminent and the net worth of the potential buyer. You can form your own opinion on the validity of what they say.

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/07/18/crystal-palace-coming-in-for-west-brom-star-saido-berahino/

That reporter is a bit naive IMO. Seems to take the clubs word
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 18, 2016, 11:06:20 AM
Matt Wilson who writes for the Express and Star Is so out of the loop when it comes to goings on at the club. John Percy and Moxley are much better they have better contacts then local press. Sadly the days of Lepkowski are long gone. He is right the wealth Is over estimated in the press but that's easy to say considering most media outlets are reporting its the richest man in China. I've been informed its not him but they are wealthy and they will spend this summer to ensure we avoid relegation. To give you a idea of how close things are I've also been informed that they are the ones who gave approval for the club to push on and bid for Schlupp
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 18, 2016, 11:40:39 AM
Matt Wilson who writes for the Express and Star Is so out of the loop when it comes to goings on at the club. John Percy and Moxley are much better they have better contacts then local press. Sadly the days of Lepkowski are long gone. He is right the wealth Is over estimated in the press but that's easy to say considering most media outlets are reporting its the richest man in China. I've been informed its not him but they are wealthy and they will spend this summer to ensure we avoid relegation. To give you a idea of how close things are I've also been informed that they are the ones who gave approval for the club to push on and bid for Schlupp

Hi baggie38,

Must say I'm surprised about Matt Wilson, I tend to find he tells it like it is, don't even bother reading the Mail. The bit in bold suggests, that the reason for the purchase is business based, as opposed to being a wealth person's plaything. So we're not going to become Man City overnight then? :) Are the WBA communications dept, "in the loop"?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 18, 2016, 11:42:26 AM
People need to remember there are fifa fair play rules which restrict spending somewhat. The days of been taken over like City were and signing Robinho the same evening are long gone I'm afraid   :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on July 18, 2016, 11:46:29 AM
Yes - was just about to say we need a rundown on what we would be able to spend without falling foul of FFP rules........Standaman tends to be good on this type of thing ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 18, 2016, 12:13:37 PM
ffp only affects clubs when they fall into 1 of 2 categories i.e 1) They get relegated or 2) they qualify for Europe otherwise how could the likes of Bournemouth afford the likes of Ibe?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 18, 2016, 12:21:02 PM
ffp only affects clubs when thy fall into 1 of 2 categories i.e 1) They get relegated or 2) they qualify for Europe otherwise how could the likes of Bournemouth afford the likes of Ibe?

By selling Ritchie for 13M to Newcastle.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 18, 2016, 01:01:21 PM
By selling Ritchie for 13M to Newcastle.

And they've also sold Elphick to Villa.

The wage bill is controlled under FFP as annual losses have to be restricted, but spending on transfer fees is fine provided that the shareholder puts funds in as capital, rather than loans, so that debts and losses are limited.  The difficulty is that spending big on transfer fees usually comes with a big wage bill, so the reality is that even with a mega-wealthy owner, we cannot just spend recklessly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Stormy78 on July 18, 2016, 01:06:16 PM
Can you not pretty much ignore FFP rules if the clubs income takes a massive jump upwards e.g. The Hawthorns gets sponsored/re branded for a stupid amount of cash which means the clubs annual income jumps considerably? I am not 100% what the rules are around such deals.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 18, 2016, 01:30:51 PM
Baggie 38 stating this I've also been informed that they are the ones who gave approval for the club to push on and bid for Schlupp
is the nearest thing I have seen to confirmation that something is happening!

Thanks for that 38 !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Scooby Doo on July 18, 2016, 01:40:21 PM
Having a ridiculously wealthy owner renders the FFP useless. They can invest in a number of areas at the club that could see us meet the numbers required to fall in line with the rules.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 18, 2016, 01:43:03 PM
By selling Ritchie for 13M to Newcastle.
they have been spending way over the odds comparable to size was just using Ibe as an example. they have spent twice as much as they have taken in this summer and thats not including things like Nathan Akes wages which they will have to pay in part plus his loan fee.Add to that last years spending Mings, Wilson, King etc
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 18, 2016, 01:52:50 PM
The new owner will just get their company to sponsor things like stadium, training ground etc to generate money like Leicester have done
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 18, 2016, 02:02:34 PM
Hmmm could be right, as we not had any pitch/ground sponsor updates/renewals yet have we?
Maybe they are sorting everything behind the scenes.. Sponsorship for ground, how to raise the cash for players ect.. So that they can hit the ground running
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 18, 2016, 02:06:26 PM
Oh my lord, what horrors could the shrine have inflicted upon it

The Lucky Jailin stadium !

the rice bowl?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 18, 2016, 02:07:01 PM
Hmmm could be right, as we not had any pitch/ground sponsor updates/renewals yet have we?
Maybe they are sorting everything behind the scenes.. Sponsorship for ground, how to raise the cash for players ect.. So that they can hit the ground running

Maybe re-branding (naming) of the stadium?  ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 18, 2016, 02:14:30 PM
ffp only affects clubs when they fall into 1 of 2 categories i.e 1) They get relegated or 2) they qualify for Europe otherwise how could the likes of Bournemouth afford the likes of Ibe?

I can't even begin to tell how wrong this is, so instead I'll just leave this link to the FFP rules:

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

Basically, if you're spending less than £60 million a year on wages, there's no limit to increasing until you go over that. That's probably why Bournemouth can increase their wage bill so much.

We are probably over that £60 million mark (don't have time to look up the figures but they're further back in the thread), so we can only increase it by £4 million a year
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 18, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
The ffp rule is totally unfair to clubs like us. The rich get richer while we are made to stagnate
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 18, 2016, 03:14:03 PM
The ffp rule is totally unfair to clubs like us. The rich get richer while we are made to stagnate

Hence why we voted against it!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 18, 2016, 03:18:18 PM
I can't even begin to tell how wrong this is, so instead I'll just leave this link to the FFP rules:

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

Basically, if you're spending less than £60 million a year on wages, there's no limit to increasing until you go over that. That's probably why Bournemouth can increase their wage bill so much.

We are probably over that £60 million mark (don't have time to look up the figures but they're further back in the thread), so we can only increase it by £4 million a year
so the 60 million player costs is that wages or fees?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 18, 2016, 03:21:13 PM
Wages only I believe.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 18, 2016, 03:44:09 PM
I'm definitely just speculating so please shoot me down if you know i'm wrong...

Friendly with Majorca away?  Is Robert Sarver (their new American owner) our man?

I realise there are rules around not owning two clubs - but there must be ways around it... The Pozzo Family for instance.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 18, 2016, 04:06:46 PM
Re FFP:


As I understand it, the FFP rules are essentially about debt. A club is not allowed to have an average debt of over, I think it's £105 million over a 3 year period. If capital is not injected, this reduces to £15 million over 3 seasons. If player costs are below a £60 million nett threshold then there is no restriction on adding to them providing it doesn't go beyond £64 million nett.  Most clubs have the players as assets, & the transfer fee & wages are added together & the amortised over the period of the contract. For example if we paid a transfer fee of £12 million for player A, & paid him a wage of £60k per week on a 4 year contract. The contract would be worth £24 million, amortised at £6 million per year. I we had say 15 such players, the asset value would be £90 million, providing our income streams generated at least £30 million, the we'd be ok. If our income stream fell below £30 million for a sustained period then we'd have to sell some of our assets to get back to the £60 million target. It's designed to stop clubs mortgaging their future by spending shed loads of money they haven't got,
That's why it's so unfair on the smaller clubs, clubs with huge wealth can just throw money at it .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 18, 2016, 04:09:12 PM
I'm definitely just speculating so please shoot me down if you know i'm wrong...

Friendly with Majorca away?  Is Robert Sarver (their new American owner) our man?

I realise there are rules around not owning two clubs - but there must be ways around it... The Pozzo Family for instance.
two clubs in the same country I believe, to reduce conflicting interest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 18, 2016, 04:12:56 PM
Re FFP:


As I understand it, the FFP rules are essentially about debt. A club is not allowed to have an average debt of over, I think it's £60 million over a 3 year period. Most clubs have the players as assets, & the transfer fee & wages are added together & the amortised over the period of the contract. For example if we paid a transfer fee of £12 million for player A, & paid him a wage of £60k per week on a 4 year contract. The contract would be worth £24 million, amortised at £6 million per year. I we had say 15 such players, the asset value would be £90 million, providing our income streams generated at least £30 million, the we'd be ok. If our income stream fell below £30 million for a sustained period then we'd have to sell some of our assets to get back to the £60 million target. It's designed to stop clubs mortgaging their future by spending shed loads of money they haven't got,
That's why it's so unfair on the smaller clubs, clubs with huge wealth can just throw money at it .


I guess there will be a number of newly rich clubs hampered by this policy and they will be lobbying to change it so that they can catch up, I hope we will be one of them :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 18, 2016, 04:32:04 PM

I guess there will be a number of newly rich clubs hampered by this policy and they will be lobbying to change it so that they can catch up, I hope we will be one of them :D

Iv'e just edited the post with the right numbers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 18, 2016, 04:39:55 PM
two clubs in the same country I believe, to reduce conflicting interest.

There are restrictions regarding two clubs in the Champions League too.

Could have implications for Wolves if Robin Li buys them and AC Milan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggielad82 on July 18, 2016, 06:31:10 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-closer-look-11630871

Looks like Peace is getting a bit greedy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 18, 2016, 06:32:43 PM
bham mail just reported that jp has recieved offers of 150m and sources said could have sold the club 3 times but jp now wants 200m i wonder how true that is
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 18, 2016, 06:39:41 PM
Take a look at @PaulSuartWBA's Tweet: https://twitter.com/PaulSuartWBA/status/755086919550337025?s=09

The tweet states it's close but the article says not.  Very poor journalism
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 18, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
bham mail just reported that jp has recieved offers of 150m and sources said could have sold the club 3 times but jp now wants 200m i wonder how true that is

If you're negotiating to sell assets it is common practice for the seller to play interested parties off against each other, as a purchaser you don't show your hand by offering your best price first, Jp is just negotiating and so is the purchaser 8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 18, 2016, 06:49:33 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-closer-look-11630871

Looks like Peace is getting a bit greedy.

WTF. Cares about the Albion eh?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 18, 2016, 06:59:06 PM
Youve got to pick a pocket or two......good old Jezza
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 18, 2016, 07:01:40 PM
What does he base the £200m on? The players and their wages?  Funny because when he tries to sign them he don't think they are worth that much.
Must be the ground then. ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 18, 2016, 07:03:15 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-closer-look-11630871

Looks like Peace is getting a bit greedy.
baggie38 told us everything in that report 7 hours ago.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on July 18, 2016, 07:04:49 PM
I really wouldn't believe much from the national press on this let alone local rags , as ever the club keep things tied down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 18, 2016, 07:22:53 PM
baggie38 told us everything in that report 7 hours ago.

Very True, Is it Greed who knows. I just hope it gets sorted soon, and the fans don't get shafted ala blackburn. One thing I will say Both local rag are dire ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 18, 2016, 07:24:30 PM
Strange as I heard the fee was the problem last week but it got sorted and that's why all the stories have come out and it has started to leak.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 18, 2016, 07:26:51 PM
That piece from the Mail contradicts itself! How is Peace playing one buyer off against another but is looking for permission from them to sanction a bid for Schlupp?
I have seen or heard nothing on here or in the papers showing any proof of intent to sell,  and when he did have a buyer last year he went public to announce an exclusivity agreement....nothing this year so far!!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 18, 2016, 07:47:13 PM
baggie38 told us everything in that report 7 hours ago.

Without any inside information I reckon anyone could have got that pretty much spot on a week or so ago.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 18, 2016, 07:49:41 PM
That piece from the Mail contradicts itself! How is Peace playing one buyer off against another but is looking for permission from them to sanction a bid for Schlupp?
I have seen or heard nothing on here or in the papers showing any proof of intent to sell,  and when he did have a buyer last year he went public to announce an exclusivity agreement....nothing this year so far!!!!

I agree about the contradiction in the report posted. We went public last year and it fell through, if that happened this time with no comment from the club in the lead up they can avoid the embarrassment and deny we were ever close in the first place so it makes perfect sense to me that very little has got out. Confidentiality clauses rule in deals such as this one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 18, 2016, 08:06:07 PM
Without any inside information I reckon anyone could have got that pretty much spot on a week or so ago.

With all due respect I don't understand how anyone with or without any inside information could of got that spot on a week or so ago considering they hadn't bid for Schlupp a week ago. I'll give you that anyone could deny the buyer being the richest man in China but I'd rather cover all areas when sharing information on the forum.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 18, 2016, 08:09:03 PM
With all due respect I don't understand how anyone with or without any inside information could of got that spot on a week or so ago considering they hadn't bid for Schlupp a week ago. I'll give you that anyone could deny the buyer being the richest man in China but I'd rather cover all areas when sharing information on the forum.

Take Schlupp out of the equation and every other thing in that piece has been rumoured for weeks and in some cases since this time last year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 18, 2016, 08:10:40 PM
With all due respect I don't understand how anyone with or without any inside information could of got that spot on a week or so ago considering they hadn't bid for Schlupp a week ago. I'll give you that anyone could deny the buyer being the richest man in China but I'd rather cover all areas when sharing information on the forum.

Take no notice of the naysayers, very discretly post what you have at a timing that suits you
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 18, 2016, 08:13:51 PM
Take no notice of the naysayers, very discretly post what you have at a timing that suits you

People can post whatever they like as long as its within the rules, personally I don't believe I've seen baggie38 or anyone else post anything on here that hasn't been mentioned prior to that elsewhere with the very odd exception.

Nothing in that Brum Mail story is really new to us, local press have been terrible for covering us for a few years now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 18, 2016, 08:17:37 PM
Take Schlupp out of the equation and every other thing in that piece has been rumoured for weeks and in some cases since this time last year.

"Take Schlupp out of the equation" so you are picking and choosing what you want from what I have to say and are stating what I have said has been reported previously? Even though what you have chose to single out and take out (in this case Schlupp) hasn't been reported before. The only time I have seen the fact the new owners have gave the go ahead for the Schlupp deal was 7 hours after I posted it on here in that poor Birmingham Mail article.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 18, 2016, 08:21:40 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-closer-look-11630871

Looks like Peace is getting a bit greedy.

Looks like a local newspaper is writing any old sourceless garbage and everyone's using it as a rod to beat JP with.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 18, 2016, 08:22:03 PM
"Take Schlupp out of the equation" so you are picking and choosing what you want from what I have to say and are stating what I have said has been reported previously? Even though what you have chose to single out and take out (in this case Schlupp) hasn't been reported before. The only time I have seen the fact the new owners have gave the go ahead for the Schlupp deal was 7 hours after I posted it on here in that poor Birmingham Mail article.

In fairness when I found out about the Schlupp offer the other night I said to my pals who I was with that will probably be an indication that a takeover deal is close for that very reason, saw a few say exactly the same on social media where they probably got it from so I think its a fair guess but a guess non the less. Just my opinion fella, if people want to hang on your every word its up to them.

I think the article is poor journalism that virtually anyone could have written, only thing in there the least bit interesting are the so called insider quotes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 18, 2016, 08:24:37 PM
In fairness when I found out about the Schlupp offer the other night I said to my pals who I was with that will probably be an indication that a takeover deal is close for that very reason, saw a few say exactly the same on social media where they probably got it from so I think its a fair guess but a guess non the less. Just my opinion fella, if people want to hang on your every word its up to them.

In all fairness if you take a look on social media alot of people have been worried and asking the local journalists if this take over will hold up our transfer dealings which I think is the natural response to something like this going on. My post and that snippet of information I shared was for those types of people who are concerned about that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 18, 2016, 08:27:38 PM
In all fairness if you take a look on social media alot of people have been worried and asking the local journalists if this take over will hold up our transfer dealings which I think is the natural response to something like this going on. My post and that snippet of information I shared was for those types of people who are concerned about that.

Carry on posting mate its all good, gets people talking which is what this place is here for. I stand by my comments that anyone could have written that piece the Brum Mail have come out with today and that I don't believe you have ever said anything that hasn't been said elsewhere already but there are no genuine ITK people around anymore just those that get the odd bit of info here and there. Don't take anything I say personally I'm just very sceptical of those that claim to be ITK.

I'll just be glad to see this over one way or the other.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 18, 2016, 08:32:15 PM
Carry on posting mate its all good, gets people talking which is what this place is here for. I stand by my comments that anyone could have written that piece the Brum Mail have come out with today and that I don't believe you have ever said anything that hasn't been said elsewhere already but there are no genuine ITK people around anymore just those that get the odd bit of info here and there.

I'll just be glad to see this over one way or the other.

I'm with you on that one! Either way I think it's exciting times to be a Baggie.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbatillidie on July 18, 2016, 08:33:50 PM
People need to remember there are fifa fair play rules which restrict spending somewhat. The days of been taken over like City were and signing Robinho the same evening are long gone I'm afraid   :P

Are you this StevenWBA character everyone calls ITK on twitter? He tweeted what you wrote on here earlier.

Steven B ‏@StevenWBA  2h2 hours ago
Days of foreign owners buying #MCFC lunchtime and signing Robinho by midnight are truly gone. Big difference will be next summer #wba
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 18, 2016, 08:36:58 PM
I'm with you on that one! Either way I think it's exciting times to be a Baggie.

Exciting, concerning and a number of other conflicting words spring to mind. Will be interesting to see how we get on if a takeover does go through, can't see us benefiting from it significantly in this transfer window even if it gets done in the next week. I look forward to seeing what plans any potential new owner has to develop the club in general.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 18, 2016, 08:38:54 PM
Are you this StevenWBA character everyone calls ITK on twitter? He tweeted what you wrote on here earlier.

Steven B ‏@StevenWBA  2h2 hours ago
Days of foreign owners buying #MCFC lunchtime and signing Robinho by midnight are truly gone. Big difference will be next summer #wba

No mate that's not me. I saw that tweet earlier and thought that was a coincidence. He is a very good ITK poster on social media.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 18, 2016, 08:42:28 PM
Sorry to wade in but can baggies 38, who I thank for the updates, or anyone just kinda give me the latest? The sun has fried my brain today, is the takeover looking more or less likely please
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbatillidie on July 18, 2016, 08:42:36 PM
No mate that's not me. I saw that tweet earlier and thought that was a coincidence. He is a very good ITK poster on social media.

I always have a look at what he has to say and he seems to know what's going on but noticed Chris Lepkowski said he was someone pretending to be a journalist when replying to someone last night.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 18, 2016, 08:42:49 PM
How much did Witton Park go for?
How much is JP asking for the Albion?
Who is the better valued side?
The one in the Prem or the the one in the chumpionship?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 18, 2016, 08:45:06 PM
I am glad B H Baggie that you have emphasised that there are no longer ANY ITK people on this forum, despite a certain person who keeps trying to make claims to the contrary. We can all put two and two together and think we know what is happening but the answer is never four! No-one has come up with a startling relegation in recent times that has made all of us sit up and take notice and has proved to be true. It is just a guessing game that we all like to be a part of.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 18, 2016, 08:50:01 PM
Thanks baggie 38 I enjoy the inside information and it keeps us baggie fans in the loop others can believe and interprete what they like but over the years I`ve  been reading your posts you`ve been pretty good with your information so please keep up you good work.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 18, 2016, 08:53:19 PM
I am glad B H Baggie that you have emphasised that there are no longer ANY ITK people on this forum, despite a certain person who keeps trying to make claims to the contrary. We can all put two and two together and think we know what is happening but the answer is never four! No-one has come up with a startling relegation in recent times that has made all of us sit up and take notice and has proved to be true. It is just a guessing game that we all like to be a part of.
I thought the seals relegation was startling, didn't make me sit up more like jump up and down in sheer joy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 18, 2016, 08:57:01 PM
I am glad B H Baggie that you have emphasised that there are no longer ANY ITK people on this forum, despite a certain person who keeps trying to make claims to the contrary. We can all put two and two together and think we know what is happening but the answer is never four! No-one has come up with a startling relegation in recent times that has made all of us sit up and take notice and has proved to be true. It is just a guessing game that we all like to be a part of.

Given time Irvine would have!!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 18, 2016, 08:57:49 PM
I am glad B H Baggie that you have emphasised that there are no longer ANY ITK people on this forum, despite a certain person who keeps trying to make claims to the contrary. We can all put two and two together and think we know what is happening but the answer is never four! No-one has come up with a startling relegation in recent times that has made all of us sit up and take notice and has proved to be true. It is just a guessing game that we all like to be a part of.

I wasn't trying to target any members on here just giving my opinion on it, people genuinely do get snippets of information and post it in good faith. Some will be spot on while some won't as things can change so quickly and anyone that is genuinely ITK to the point where they know quite a lot they won't post on sites like this anymore other than to maybe confirm something by saying that is what they have been told. Its up to individual members to decide if they believe what people say but they shouldn't be hounded either way. I probably shouldn't have said some of the things I've said on this thread as abrupt as it looks reading it back but it is all just my personal opinion.

Time to get it back onto the topic in hand though and discuss this potential takeover.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on July 18, 2016, 09:00:46 PM
I don't want to get into a discussion about what info is genuine or not but as it was a fairly prominent point over the last page of so I thought it's worth mentioning that the idea of new owners making transfer decisions already, such as a bid for Schlupp, was alluded to on Twitter several days ago by Stuart White, who I believe had a long stint at Albion as a scout until recently.

As I say I'm not saying that what people know or have been told isn't accurate but the idea that new owners might be having an influence on current club decisions isn't something that is a new suggestion. I'd imagine it's actually fairly common practice once a deal of this size reaches a certain point.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 18, 2016, 09:02:10 PM
As a fan of the club I think most of us would focus most on a takeover as a chance for us to improve our standing in the transfer market to get the team to compete.

I just wonder what everyone else hopes we can get out of wealthy owners especially in terms of growing the club and what would you accept to achieve it, as an example would everyone be happy for the stadium to have naming rights sold to add to our earning potential?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on July 18, 2016, 09:15:12 PM
If you believe a potential buyer is conducting current transfers you are very much mistaken, it is just not happening. Schlupp has been a target for 18 months and not two weeks.

I am a massive JP fan and I hope 100% he stays, even if he doesnt I would prefer a similar individual and not some consortium from thousands of miles away that understands absolutely nothing about our great club. The last thing we need is more dilution as a club!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 18, 2016, 09:16:21 PM
As a fan of the club I think most of us would focus most on a takeover as a chance for us to improve our standing in the transfer market to get the team to compete.

I just wonder what everyone else hopes we can get out of wealthy owners especially in terms of growing the club and what would you accept to achieve it, as an example would everyone be happy for the stadium to have naming rights sold to add to our earning potential?
I think we've proved we can do well in the transfer market without a billionaire owner, under Ashworth we found some gems without spending a fortune, unfortunately for the last 3 years we've bought too much dead wood. if we are taken over I would like to keep up the excellent work the academy is doing at the moment. would hate the ground to change name but can honestly say I've never said to anyone im going up the Hawthorns its always going up the ALBION.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 18, 2016, 09:21:10 PM
 Sadly  football has emerged into the land of big business the days of somebody such as JP being able to take a club past a certain level are being consigned to the history books.Naming rights to the stadium re to becoming part and parcel of our game and have to be accepted if not liked, just as we draw the line at franchising they will still be our club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 18, 2016, 09:23:08 PM
If you believe a potential buyer is conducting current transfers you are very much mistaken, it is just not happening. Schlupp has been a target for 18 months and not two weeks.

I am a massive JP fan and I hope 100% he stays, even if he doesnt I would prefer a similar individual and not some consortium from thousands of miles away that understands absolutely nothing about our great club. The last thing we need is more dilution as a club!

You and I are clearly hearing very different things then Baggie79. I think it's fair to assume Schlupp has been a target for a while the club don't just pluck names out of the air and make bids. I actually hope Peace does move on and the takeover is complete simply because as much as I admire the man and what he has done I firmly believe he has taken us as far as he and his money can. The club needs fresh investors
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 18, 2016, 09:23:30 PM
How much did Witton Park go for?
How much is JP asking for the Albion?
Who is the better valued side?
The one in the Prem or the the one in the chumpionship?
I'll answer that one for you. Villa, spend circa £30million & you'll have an EPL side for about £110 million, sell it for £150 million. £40 million profit kerching
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on July 18, 2016, 09:24:36 PM
Well that's the last time I try to offer any kind of insight, shot down in less than 10 minutes! As I said, the idea that someone buying the club might be influencing club decisions was alluded to a good few days ago by someone I thought would have decent knowledge of this sort of thing  given they have worked in football for a long time.

Just  goes to show how hard it is to make sense of what is really going on right now. All we can know for sure is that the club is keeping things pretty water tight and are straight batting any questions about it. That seems to be the word from a few of the national journos anyway.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 18, 2016, 09:41:33 PM
I think we've proved we can do well in the transfer market without a billionaire owner, under Ashworth we found some gems without spending a fortune, unfortunately for the last 3 years we've bought too much dead wood. if we are taken over I would like to keep up the excellent work the academy is doing at the moment. would hate the ground to change name but can honestly say I've never said to anyone im going up the Hawthorns its always going up the ALBION.

or down the Baggies
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 18, 2016, 09:51:33 PM
Well that's the last time I try to offer any kind of insight, shot down in less than 10 minutes! As I said, the idea that someone buying the club might be influencing club decisions was alluded to a good few days ago by someone I thought would have decent knowledge of this sort of thing  given they have worked in football for a long time.

Just  goes to show how hard it is to make sense of what is really going on right now. All we can know for sure is that the club is keeping things pretty water tight and are straight batting any questions about it. That seems to be the word from a few of the national journos anyway.

Couple of things:

It's your opinion, & you're entitled to it, it's different, not wrong.

I wouldn't take too much notice of ex players or ex anybodies. 40 Years ago, I was a jig & tool designer, probably wouldn't know where to start now.
The modern professional game is far more advanced now than it was in say Bomber's day.

Nobody knows how this takeover is structured, or even if it's imminent.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on July 18, 2016, 09:56:02 PM
Que sera sera. Not worth getting wound up over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on July 18, 2016, 10:02:11 PM
Couple of things:

It's your opinion, & you're entitled to it, it's different, not wrong.

I wouldn't take too much notice of ex players or ex anybodies. 40 Years ago, I was a jig & tool designer, probably wouldn't know where to start now.
The modern professional game is far more advanced now than it was in say Bomber's day.

Nobody knows how this takeover is structured, or even if it's imminent.
Thanks for the reply. Always hard to get posts across on here with any kind of humour as it's hard to pick up just from text but just to be clear my 'shot down' remark was meant slightly tongue in cheek. Was just typical timing that I'd post something just minutes before a poster who I would accept as being well informed says the opposite!

Definitely agree about ex pros and opinions however. Difficult for any footballer to really get a grip on how a club really operates as during their career they must be sheltered from an awful lot of it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on July 18, 2016, 10:21:58 PM
If you believe a potential buyer is conducting current transfers you are very much mistaken, it is just not happening. Schlupp has been a target for 18 months and not two weeks.

I am a massive JP fan and I hope 100% he stays, even if he doesnt I would prefer a similar individual and not some consortium from thousands of miles away that understands absolutely nothing about our great club. The last thing we need is more dilution as a club!

As much as you would like Peace to stay would you not agree that the club needs a fresh injection of enthusiasm , ideas , zest ? .  The place is like an old pair of slippers . The problem now is that if there is no takeover or at least someone to invest if the football remains rubbish and there aren't any more  signings before the season the balloon will go up .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 18, 2016, 10:32:23 PM
I sometimes think that Peace likes us all to get wound up over this take over business! If there's no truth in it why wouldn't he just come out and say so?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 18, 2016, 10:37:48 PM
my sentiments exactly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 18, 2016, 11:06:15 PM
I think you will all know soon, following 79 comments youve been played again by the master of pounds and pence.
I posted a numbers of times roll up get your seasond tickets here, they were deleted, I still think Ebeneezer is the master and treats fans as a game and exacts every penny he can get.
Hopefully Im wrong but after 3 years of playing the same cards I bet he can not believe its worked again.
On wards, upwards new season new struggle but only one Baggies

Season tickets over the last week I suspect have come along nicely what say you

 
.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 18, 2016, 11:28:52 PM
I think you will all know soon, following 79 comments youve been played again by the master of pounds and pence.
I posted a numbers of times roll up get your seasond tickets here, they were deleted, I still think Ebeneezer is the master and treats fans as a game and exacts every penny he can get.
Hopefully Im wrong but after 3 years of playing the same cards I bet he can not believe its worked again.
On wards, upwards new season new struggle but only one Baggies

Season tickets over the last week I suspect have come along nicely what say you

 
.

I highly doubt that Jeremy Peace has created a media plan to trick one or two extra fans into buying more season tickets when sales have already been very similar to last season.
In the big scheme of things, season ticket sales are penny's to Peace now that the TV money has gone so high. We could play next season with a half-empty home ground and it would barely effect his pockets.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 18, 2016, 11:31:12 PM
I think you will all know soon, following 79 comments youve been played again by the master of pounds and pence.
I posted a numbers of times roll up get your seasond tickets here, they were deleted, I still think Ebeneezer is the master and treats fans as a game and exacts every penny he can get.
Hopefully Im wrong but after 3 years of playing the same cards I bet he can not believe its worked again.
On wards, upwards new season new struggle but only one Baggies

Season tickets over the last week I suspect have come along nicely what say you

 
.

Sorry but I had to laugh at this post! Are you suggesting that all of this is a marketing plot by the club in order to sell new season tickets before the start of the new season only to be left with Peace in the end? If the club wanted to do that they would of said something through official channels they would of made a announcement similar to last year when Peace said he gave exclusive rights to a takeover (which were obviously accurate and true) but the point remains of anything the club have done a remarkable job of keeping it so quiet in the media thus far. I've said before the local media aren't the best these days they don't have many good contacts in the club but they have been feeding on bread crumbs this summer even now they are leaving it to guess work
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 18, 2016, 11:38:28 PM
Can anyone tell me if they think this is likely to happen then?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 18, 2016, 11:58:01 PM
I think you will all know soon, following 79 comments youve been played again by the master of pounds and pence.
I posted a numbers of times roll up get your seasond tickets here, they were deleted, I still think Ebeneezer is the master and treats fans as a game and exacts every penny he can get.
Hopefully Im wrong but after 3 years of playing the same cards I bet he can not believe its worked again.
On wards, upwards new season new struggle but only one Baggies

Season tickets over the last week I suspect have come along nicely what say you

 
.


Hahahahaha...ha...haaa? Oh Christ you're serious?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 18, 2016, 11:58:20 PM
Can anyone tell me if they think this is likely to happen then?

I believe so if all keeps going the way it Is it should be concluded in the next 2/3 weeks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 19, 2016, 01:13:48 AM
I haven't written anything about FFP for an age but a new owner might be constrained by the rules.
So here is a quick recap.

Premier League FFP

Losses capped at £105m over 3 seasons or £15m if debt funded as opposed to the owner putting in the cash. This pretty much stops the practice of the owner "lending" the club money

Wage increases if the wage bill is greater than £60m from this season capped at £7m unless it is funded from increases in none TV revenue e.g. Gate receipts Commercial Revenues or Profits on player sales.

The real killer for us is the wage cap unless we get a substantial boost to the other revenues we will struggle to sign better quality players regardless of how much the new owners are prepared to spend.

Incidentally this is why getting rid of the Pulis bomb squad is so important and possibly why we seem to be stalled in the transfer market.

UEFA FFP
Probably only a concern if we get into Europe

Seemingly tougher than the PL rules with a 30m euro cap on losses over three years but there are a number of items such as ground improvements and the cost of the academy which are excluded.

So what would it mean for any new owners?  Firstly it would appear there is enough wriggle room to fulfill any owners desire to throw a lot of money at a football club, although probably not enough to be a new Man City. Secondly there are opportunities to exploit related party transactions which don't seem to be have been as vigorously policed as they might have been. e.g. Owners "buying"  the stadium naming rights at inflated prices.

Ultimately I am not sure whether or not FFP will have an impact on the new ownership. As with all of this it rather depends on who the prospective new owners are and what their plans are. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 19, 2016, 01:14:50 AM
How come it seems other clubs .ie villa, seem to get take overs done very fast or announced and sealed quick.... But for us it's taking weeks or months... Maybe even since last year, if it's the same interested party as last year.
They have had a very long time to talk, agree, arrange and sort things out.
Where's villa, it was all done within 3 weeks from been announced they was new sold.
Also wolves announced they are selling, next thing you know they have an interested party and have now almost finalised it. Again the whole process maybe taking 2 months.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 19, 2016, 02:18:23 AM
How come it seems other clubs .ie villa, seem to get take overs done very fast or announced and sealed quick.... But for us it's taking weeks or months... Maybe even since last year, if it's the same interested party as last year.
They have had a very long time to talk, agree, arrange and sort things out.
Where's villa, it was all done within 3 weeks from been announced they was new sold.
Also wolves announced they are selling, next thing you know they have an interested party and have now almost finalised it. Again the whole process maybe taking 2 months.

They are on the market for a fraction of the money that Albion are on for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 19, 2016, 02:32:55 AM
If you believe a potential buyer is conducting current transfers you are very much mistaken, it is just not happening. Schlupp has been a target for 18 months and not two weeks.

I am a massive JP fan and I hope 100% he stays, even if he doesnt I would prefer a similar individual and not some consortium from thousands of miles away that understands absolutely nothing about our great club. The last thing we need is more dilution as a club!

I was thinking this also, it doesn't make any sense when a potential sale has still not been completed, anything could change before that event.

I trust Baggie79 the most on this forum on what is going on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 19, 2016, 03:15:51 AM
They are on the market for a fraction of the money that Albion are on for.

Plus they would of more than likely been going on as long as ours is but kept under wraps all the same.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 19, 2016, 05:24:00 AM
I think you will all know soon, following 79 comments youve been played again by the master of pounds and pence.
I posted a numbers of times roll up get your seasond tickets here, they were deleted, I still think Ebeneezer is the master and treats fans as a game and exacts every penny he can get.
Hopefully Im wrong but after 3 years of playing the same cards I bet he can not believe its worked again.
On wards, upwards new season new struggle but only one Baggies

Season tickets over the last week I suspect have come along nicely what say you



 
.

There are none so blind mate. They fall for the same trick season after season. Peace must love reading the comments about him on here, a licence to get away with murder.
I said a couple of pages back that he has no intention of selling us, he just lets rumours fester, keeps raising the price and then just before the season starts announces no deal. And people still fall for it.
How many signings have we made? And that one took two years of haggling? Small time chairman with a big bank account.

I wish i knew where some on here lived, i would become a door to door salesman and call at their house in my Tony Mowbray mask.  ;D
He was an hero on here too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 19, 2016, 06:43:06 AM
What I was saying is Old Ebeneezer knows he still needs bums on seats a half empty crowd and no atmosphere is not good for the image, who will have to laugh at whilst counting his money.
We know he cares for money not football anyone who have seen us play for the last few seasons willl have to admit that.
Weve had the same rumours of the stars coming, bids made and 1 player has arrived.
More rumours of players and a takeover fill seats, he's got Sky's money just needs some fans for the tele to see.
Sh1te football, empty stadium aint good for when he eventually tries to sell!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 19, 2016, 07:43:12 AM
How come it seems other clubs .ie villa, seem to get take overs done very fast or announced and sealed quick.... But for us it's taking weeks or months... Maybe even since last year, if it's the same interested party as last year.
They have had a very long time to talk, agree, arrange and sort things out.
Where's villa, it was all done within 3 weeks from been announced they was new sold.
Also wolves announced they are selling, next thing you know they have an interested party and have now almost finalised it. Again the whole process maybe taking 2 months.
Because that how peace does things.....look at our transfer dealings!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 19, 2016, 08:26:55 AM
What I was saying is Old Ebeneezer knows he still needs bums on seats a half empty crowd and no atmosphere is not good for the image, who will have to laugh at whilst counting his money.
We know he cares for money not football anyone who have seen us play for the last few seasons willl have to admit that.
Weve had the same rumours of the stars coming, bids made and 1 player has arrived.
More rumours of players and a takeover fill seats, he's got Sky's money just needs some fans for the tele to see.
Sh1te football, empty stadium aint good for when he eventually tries to sell!

Give the fans a bit of credit.
If you think that most fans buy season tickets on scepticism regarding who we may or may not buy and rumours of a take over then I think that you are misguided to say the least.
I would think that most of our season ticket holders have had tickets for a few years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 19, 2016, 08:27:10 AM
Plus they would of more than likely been going on as long as ours is but kept under wraps all the same.

Is it likely that the potential new owners also have other issues to sort before they can conclude any deals with WBA?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 19, 2016, 09:33:49 AM
If this takeover does happen and it is the Chinese folks who buy us,do you think that our visit ( I think first western football club to visit China ?) There  had any value?
I know Chinese people are very interested in their history.
Or as I suspect just a happy coincidence on a purely business model.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: superbobgod on July 19, 2016, 09:52:09 AM
Are  some people not misreading what Baggie79 wrote?

My interpretation is he is saying Schlupp being bid for by the potential new buyers is not happening and that its a JP led move - NOT that the takeover isnt happening?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WD40 on July 19, 2016, 10:06:57 AM
If this takeover does happen and it is the Chinese folks who buy us,do you think that our visit ( I think first western football club to visit China ?) There  had any value?
I know Chinese people are very interested in their history.
Or as I suspect just a happy coincidence on a purely business model.
I doubt it even accured to them although they will say it was one of the main reasons for choosing us once everything is signed and sealed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 19, 2016, 10:17:39 AM
I've got to laugh at some of the "conspiracy theorists" in this thread. We are close to being taken over, and have been in talks for a long time now. These things take time, especially when the chairman hasn't got the same type of urgency to sell as other under pressure chairman and is notorious for hard ball negotiations.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 19, 2016, 10:22:53 AM
How come it seems other clubs .ie villa, seem to get take overs done very fast or announced and sealed quick.... But for us it's taking weeks or months... Maybe even since last year, if it's the same interested party as last year.
They have had a very long time to talk, agree, arrange and sort things out.
Where's villa, it was all done within 3 weeks from been announced they was new sold.
Also wolves announced they are selling, next thing you know they have an interested party and have now almost finalised it. Again the whole process maybe taking 2 months.

JP's goalposts are on wheels don't forget.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 19, 2016, 01:56:19 PM
How come it seems other clubs .ie villa, seem to get take overs done very fast or announced and sealed quick.... But for us it's taking weeks or months... Maybe even since last year, if it's the same interested party as last year.
They have had a very long time to talk, agree, arrange and sort things out.
Where's villa, it was all done within 3 weeks from been announced they was new sold.
Also wolves announced they are selling, next thing you know they have an interested party and have now almost finalised it. Again the whole process maybe taking 2 months.

Well in fairness the Villa also had a failed takeover last season (like us) so it's not as simple as just selling up. Besides, their new owner looks extremely dodgy and I like to think Peace would sell us to more responsible owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 19, 2016, 05:07:04 PM
Just looked on another site and its saying book a date in your diary for 6th or 7th of august nod  nod wink wink  prob the 7th as its a lucky number in China
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on July 19, 2016, 05:23:41 PM
Just looked on another site and its saying book a date in your diary for 6th or 7th of august nod  nod wink wink  prob the 7th as its a lucky number in China
It wasn't Molineux Mix was it? I think they've pregicted they would announce their takeover every day of the month so far based on each day being a lucky number in China ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bazabaggie73 on July 19, 2016, 05:24:09 PM
Which site is that pollard13??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 19, 2016, 05:29:59 PM
Just looked on another site and its saying book a date in your diary for 6th or 7th of august nod  nod wink wink  prob the 7th as its a lucky number in China

I think it's the year of the throstle as well. so that's a good sign.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 19, 2016, 05:30:28 PM
Hey 38, unless I've missed it,do you know if our potential suitor is an individual or a consortium?
Are you aware of their nationality?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 19, 2016, 05:31:38 PM
no this was on WBA MAD earlier this afternoon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 19, 2016, 06:04:39 PM
Just looked on another site and its saying book a date in your diary for 6th or 7th of august nod  nod wink wink  prob the 7th as its a lucky number in China

Can't see an announcement a saturday or sunday. Monday maybe?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 19, 2016, 06:13:24 PM
How come it seems other clubs .ie villa, seem to get take overs done very fast or announced and sealed quick.... But for us it's taking weeks or months... Maybe even since last year, if it's the same interested party as last year.
They have had a very long time to talk, agree, arrange and sort things out.
Where's villa, it was all done within 3 weeks from been announced they was new sold.
Also wolves announced they are selling, next thing you know they have an interested party and have now almost finalised it. Again the whole process maybe taking 2 months.


Because Peace is asking too much for us. £80m for Vile, £40m for Dingles, £150-£200m for us.
To me it just seems he doesn't want to sell at all but tries to make out he does.
Get ready for the failure to agree statement just before the start of the season, then a frantic month of bargain basement signings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 19, 2016, 07:09:28 PM

Because Peace is asking too much for us. £80m for Vile, £40m for Dingles, £150-£200m for us.
To me it just seems he doesn't want to sell at all but tries to make out he does.
Get ready for the failure to agree statement just before the start of the season, then a frantic month of bargain basement signings.

Would the sale price not reflect potential future earnings? Which for almost any Premiership club will be far greater than those of a) a club relegated after a spiral of decline over five years or more with a massively dispirited support group and saddled with a bunch of high earning no hoper players  or b) a club with a dwindling support base, marooned in the second tier with parachute payments expiring and no real hope of turning things around.

I'm guessing the price JP is asking is realistic and the going rate for a mid sized EPL club like us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 19, 2016, 07:13:39 PM

Because Peace is asking too much for us. £80m for Vile, £40m for Dingles, £150-£200m for us.
To me it just seems he doesn't want to sell at all but tries to make out he does.
Get ready for the failure to agree statement just before the start of the season, then a frantic month of bargain basement signings.

Are you seriously going to persist in comparing our value with all the media money and prize money, to Championship clubs???? Where do you get your calculations from when it comes to valuing our club? They are way off and you need to reassess or your arguments will continue to have absolutely no value whatsoever. Have you seen what players are going for? Let alone one of the few profit turning Premier League clubs?? Some of the stuff you post is ludicrous to be honest. Your entitled to your opinion and I respect that, but you really do post some serious rubbish which in my opinion is down to a completely Anti-Peace agenda. Go look at our account, and compare them to other "local" clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 19, 2016, 07:16:28 PM
Would the sale price not reflect potential future earnings? Which for almost any Premiership club will be far greater than those of a) a club relegated after a spiral of decline over five years or more with a massively dispirited support group and saddled with a bunch of high earning no hoper players  or b) a club with a dwindling support base, marooned in the second tier with parachute payments expiring and no real hope of turning things around.

I'm guessing the price JP is asking is realistic and the going rate for a mid sized EPL club like us.

We all know JP will try and extract every last penny out of a deal to sell, but to suggest our club should be sold for 80million is ludicrous. We have one player in the last year of his contract that is worth a quarter of that figure in todays market. Let alone the 100mil+ income from TV + Prize Money + Gate receipts etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 19, 2016, 07:26:39 PM
We all know JP will try and extract every last penny out of a deal to sell, but to suggest our club should be sold for 80million is ludicrous. We have one player in the last year of his contract that is worth a quarter of that figure in todays market. Let alone the 100mil+ income from TV + Prize Money + Gate receipts etc.

Spot on. Hence my points. We are worth more than twice as much as Villa and certainly at least five times as much as Wolves.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 19, 2016, 07:35:52 PM
We all know JP will try and extract every last penny out of a deal to sell, but to suggest our club should be sold for 80million is ludicrous. We have one player in the last year of his contract that is worth a quarter of that figure in todays market. Let alone the 100mil+ income from TV + Prize Money + Gate receipts etc.

About time we reinvested some of this newfound wealth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 19, 2016, 08:18:19 PM
Are you seriously going to persist in comparing our value with all the media money and prize money, to Championship clubs???? Where do you get your calculations from when it comes to valuing our club? They are way off and you need to reassess or your arguments will continue to have absolutely no value whatsoever. Have you seen what players are going for? Let alone one of the few profit turning Premier League clubs?? Some of the stuff you post is ludicrous to be honest. Your entitled to your opinion and I respect that, but you really do post some serious rubbish which in my opinion is down to a completely Anti-Peace agenda. Go look at our account, and compare them to other "local" clubs.

The only thing i can think would command the price he is asking is the assets, ie WBA Holdings and the land he has bought around the stadium.
You can't tell me seriously £80m for Vile with the stadium and fan base they have and located in the countries second city, is not worth as much as our small Black Country ground.
What they had the foresight to do was build good stadiums ready for any future rich buyer. It's called foresight, ambition, sometimes it works sometimes not.
To be honest when they rebuilt the Halfords in 1980 i thought we had missed a great opportunity. Wolves had just built the John Ireland/Steve Bull/Fatty Shaw stand, and i thought we would build something similar. What we got was a main stand not good enough for the third tier.
I know Wolves ambitions almost cost them their existence, but it didn't did it,and their ground looks far more symmetric now than ours.
What makes Albion worth £200m of anyones money? You tell me. OK we are premiership...for now, but Vile and Wolves will soon be if their owners take big interest in investing in them.
Anyone who buys us for £200m wil then have to pay to strengthen the team and if successfully,enlarge the ground.
How long do you think it would take for them to recoup their money, unless they are filthy filthy rich,and all reprts say they aren't?
Aint going to happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 19, 2016, 08:22:27 PM
If they are monied enough to afforrd a premier league club £200m isn't that much It will be done when it's done. I expect the people moaning now about Peace would be the first in line to bash hin if he sold to a Venky's/Yeung type character.People seem to getting upset when no official word has been given. no point getting shirty with each other when we all support the same club. Let's just see what happens
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 19, 2016, 08:26:28 PM
Divinewind you are comparing us to Championship clubs in the area when you should be comparing us too clubs in the Prem

We are worth at least twice Villa in my humble because as you say we are a Premier League team and they are not they might be one day but the fact is they are not
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 19, 2016, 08:31:42 PM
Just looked on another site and its saying book a date in your diary for 6th or 7th of august nod  nod wink wink  prob the 7th as its a lucky number in China
That was out this time last year!  Perhaps we're waiting for the year of the rat?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on July 19, 2016, 08:35:20 PM
People saying JP wants £200m for the club when at one time not so long ago he likened us to to a Championship side ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 19, 2016, 08:35:53 PM
The only thing i can think would command the price he is asking is the assets, ie WBA Holdings and the land he has bought around the stadium.
You can't tell me seriously £80m for Vile with the stadium and fan base they have and located in the countries second city, is not worth as much as our small Black Country ground.
What they had the foresight to do was build good stadiums ready for any future rich buyer. It's called foresight, ambition, sometimes it works sometimes not.
To be honest when they rebuilt the Halfords in 1980 i thought we had missed a great opportunity. Wolves had just built the John Ireland/Steve Bull/Fatty Shaw stand, and i thought we would build something similar. What we got was a main stand not good enough for the third tier.
I know Wolves ambitions almost cost them their existence, but it didn't did it,and their ground looks far more symmetric now than ours.
What makes Albion worth £200m of anyones money? You tell me. OK we are premiership...for now, but Vile and Wolves will soon be if their owners take big interest in investing in them.
Anyone who buys us for £200m wil then have to pay to strengthen the team and if successfully,enlarge the ground.
How long do you think it would take for them to recoup their money, unless they are filthy filthy rich,and all reprts say they aren't?
Aint going to happen.

Aren't players assets? So 20 players each with an average contract value of £10million = £200 million. Plus a HC with a contract value of circa £4 million = £200million +£4 million = 204 million.
I would imagine Darren Fletcher alone is worth circa £20 million. So Darren Fletcher + Johnny Evans + Saido = circa £60 million
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: blue on July 19, 2016, 09:03:28 PM
If they are monied enough to afforrd a premier league club £200m isn't that much It will be done when it's done. I expect the people moaning now about Peace would be the first in line to bash hin if he sold to a Venky's/Yeung type character.People seem to getting upset when no official word has been given. no point getting shirty with each other when we all support the same club. Let's just see what happens

But if villa wolves spend 100 million in championship they are still gambling  on getting promotion. With Newcastle with rafa a good bet plus norwich , derby, sheff wed plus others with wealthy backers i4s not a forgone  conclusion.
Where shouldshould we are the finnished article with planning permission.  We are premiership,  established  with everything  in place for future  investment to take forward.
Peace knows this and he is going to get every penny he can get.
Forget the fan  owner who takes some and insists on some money being invested in the club he will take everything  he can get and for me he deserves it..
We are now Premier league , just look at Villa Blues Wolves Coventry Sheffield clubs, Leeds and on and on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 19, 2016, 09:04:12 PM
I doubt anyone would pay £20m for Darren Fletcher, Jonny Evans possibly, but defenders never command the  high fee of a striker, and we only have one who could command that fee, and that fee has dropped by about £10m now,wen we could have used it to strengthen the team.
Mst of you are blindly loyal to Albion,and i can't knock you for that, but i try and play devils advocate and put myself in the shoes of a buyer,not as an Albion fan.
What would West Bromwich Albion give me in return?
On the other hand i could pay £40m for a championship club, spend wisely, get them promoted and be quids in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 19, 2016, 09:04:15 PM
That was out this time last year!  Perhaps we're waiting for the year of the rat?

The year of the rat...
I was born in that year (1948).
I am now on Warfarin...Rat killer...What are the doctors trying to do to me?   ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 19, 2016, 09:05:46 PM
Bailing out of these threads for the summer, glorious day today ruined by my own intrigue and nosiness and reading some utter rubbish on Twitter from our fans. Some even have tweets slating the club pinned at the top of their tweets. Why bother? You don't like what we do, how we play, how we do our business, I can't see what the appeal is in supporting us.

Roll on the season start :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 19, 2016, 09:16:51 PM
I doubt anyone would pay £20m for Darren Fletcher, Jonny Evans possibly, but defenders never command the  high fee of a striker, and we only have one who could command that fee, and that fee has dropped by about £10m now,wen we could have used it to strengthen the team.
Mst of you are blindly loyal to Albion,and i can't knock you for that, but i try and play devils advocate and put myself in the shoes of a buyer,not as an Albion fan.
What would West Bromwich Albion give me in return?
On the other hand i could pay £40m for a championship club, spend wisely, get them promoted and be quids in.

I'll give it one more try.

If Saido had just signed a 4 year contract & was on £60k per week, how much do you think he'd be worth?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on July 19, 2016, 09:55:55 PM
I doubt anyone would pay £20m for Darren Fletcher, Jonny Evans possibly, but defenders never command the  high fee of a striker, and we only have one who could command that fee, and that fee has dropped by about £10m now,wen we could have used it to strengthen the team.
Mst of you are blindly loyal to Albion,and i can't knock you for that, but i try and play devils advocate and put myself in the shoes of a buyer,not as an Albion fan.
What would West Bromwich Albion give me in return?
On the other hand i could pay £40m for a championship club, spend wisely, get them promoted and be quids in.

Getting promoted isn't guaranteed though is it? Villa were making huge losses in the premier league so although they have been bought for £40m their owner has taken on their existing debts and will be making even bigger losses every season they don't get promoted. That is without any money being spent on new players. At a guess by the end of this season their owner will have spent well over £100m. Without promotion he will have a very expensive vanity project on his hands
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 19, 2016, 11:02:49 PM
I doubt anyone would pay £20m for Darren Fletcher, Jonny Evans possibly, but defenders never command the  high fee of a striker, and we only have one who could command that fee, and that fee has dropped by about £10m now,wen we could have used it to strengthen the team.
Mst of you are blindly loyal to Albion,and i can't knock you for that, but i try and play devils advocate and put myself in the shoes of a buyer,not as an Albion fan.
What would West Bromwich Albion give me in return?
On the other hand i could pay £40m for a championship club, spend wisely, get them promoted and be quids in.

Good luck with that then.

I think you are missing the point that these clubs will be loaded with debt whereas we aren't, putting us in a powerful position. Imagine if you got offered a business with £10k debt for £1 or a business with £5k assets for £5k. It would be better to buy the second business even though you're spending more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 19, 2016, 11:42:41 PM
no this was on WBA MAD earlier this afternoon.

That same poster seemed to suggest that a deal was virtually done a few weeks ago and then the sale of Villa at £80M threw a spanner in the works.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 20, 2016, 06:28:51 AM
The only thing i can think would command the price he is asking is the assets, ie WBA Holdings and the land he has bought around the stadium.
You can't tell me seriously £80m for Vile with the stadium and fan base they have and located in the countries second city, is not worth as much as our small Black Country ground.
What they had the foresight to do was build good stadiums ready for any future rich buyer. It's called foresight, ambition, sometimes it works sometimes not.
To be honest when they rebuilt the Halfords in 1980 i thought we had missed a great opportunity. Wolves had just built the John Ireland/Steve Bull/Fatty Shaw stand, and i thought we would build something similar. What we got was a main stand not good enough for the third tier.
I know Wolves ambitions almost cost them their existence, but it didn't did it,and their ground looks far more symmetric now than ours.
What makes Albion worth £200m of anyones money? You tell me. OK we are premiership...for now, but Vile and Wolves will soon be if their owners take big interest in investing in them.
Anyone who buys us for £200m wil then have to pay to strengthen the team and if successfully,enlarge the ground.
How long do you think it would take for them to recoup their money, unless they are filthy filthy rich,and all reprts say they aren't?
Aint going to happen.

Awful lot of 'if's' in that argument.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 20, 2016, 06:35:26 AM
Compare and contrast

Wolves Projected turnover 2016/2017 £16m
Villas Projected turnover 2016/2017 £75m
WBA Projected turnover 2016/2017 £125m

We are making money the other two are losing money and will continue to lose it while they are in the Championship.

Is it easier to keep a team in the Premier League or get one promoted from the Championship? I honestly don't know. Villa have a real advantage over the rest of the league but that only lasts 3 seasons, Wolves are back in the pack and the experience of Notts Forrest shows just how difficult even with substantial investment getting out from there can be. 

Stoxman did an excellent post a while back on the valuation of the club you could equally apply that methodology to the Wolves and Villa sales. If I had the time I would but for the time being there you go that is why we are worth a lot more than either Villa or Wolves. History is all well and good but it doesn't pay today's bills.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 20, 2016, 08:31:39 AM
And what happens if villa don't get promoted for 3years when the parachute money runs out?
How much money does the doctor have?
I can see him wanting out pdq.
What if they get relegated next year do the parachute payments continue regardless?
They are under great pressure to get back up,the manager and players don't care these days do they they're all money chasers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stokelad84 on July 20, 2016, 09:43:41 AM
And what happens if villa don't get promoted for 3years when the parachute money runs out?
How much money does the doctor have?
I can see him wanting out pdq.
What if they get relegated next year do the parachute payments continue regardless?
They are under great pressure to get back up,the manager and players don't care these days do they they're all money chasers.

Yeah they carry on if a club falls into League 1.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 20, 2016, 10:02:24 AM
Compare and contrast

Wolves Projected turnover 2016/2017 £16m
Villas Projected turnover 2016/2017 £75m
WBA Projected turnover 2016/2017 £125m

We are making money the other two are losing money and will continue to lose it while they are in the Championship.

Is it easier to keep a team in the Premier League or get one promoted from the Championship? I honestly don't know. Villa have a real advantage over the rest of the league but that only lasts 3 seasons, Wolves are back in the pack and the experience of Notts Forrest shows just how difficult even with substantial investment getting out from there can be. 

Stoxman did an excellent post a while back on the valuation of the club you could equally apply that methodology to the Wolves and Villa sales. If I had the time I would but for the time being there you go that is why we are worth a lot more than either Villa or Wolves. History is all well and good but it doesn't pay today's bills.

Kind of answers the argument on why JP values the club so high

Thanks for posting that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 20, 2016, 11:09:08 AM
Compare and contrast

Wolves Projected turnover 2016/2017 £16m
Villas Projected turnover 2016/2017 £75m
WBA Projected turnover 2016/2017 £125m

We are making money the other two are losing money and will continue to lose it while they are in the Championship.

Is it easier to keep a team in the Premier League or get one promoted from the Championship? I honestly don't know. Villa have a real advantage over the rest of the league but that only lasts 3 seasons, Wolves are back in the pack and the experience of Notts Forrest shows just how difficult even with substantial investment getting out from there can be. 

Stoxman did an excellent post a while back on the valuation of the club you could equally apply that methodology to the Wolves and Villa sales. If I had the time I would but for the time being there you go that is why we are worth a lot more than either Villa or Wolves. History is all well and good but it doesn't pay today's bills.

And there we have it.... the reason why we are worth considerably more than Divinewind's valuation. As a going concern we are worth far more than Villa, Blues due to our guaranteed income. Villa literally got relegated at the worst possible time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 20, 2016, 11:26:52 AM
Compare and contrast

Wolves Projected turnover 2016/2017 £16m
Villas Projected turnover 2016/2017 £75m
WBA Projected turnover 2016/2017 £125m

We are making money the other two are losing money and will continue to lose it while they are in the Championship.

Is it easier to keep a team in the Premier League or get one promoted from the Championship? I honestly don't know. Villa have a real advantage over the rest of the league but that only lasts 3 seasons, Wolves are back in the pack and the experience of Notts Forrest shows just how difficult even with substantial investment getting out from there can be. 

Stoxman did an excellent post a while back on the valuation of the club you could equally apply that methodology to the Wolves and Villa sales. If I had the time I would but for the time being there you go that is why we are worth a lot more than either Villa or Wolves. History is all well and good but it doesn't pay today's bills.

Turnover is a good indicator, profit is better, but businesses are largely valued based on their assets, & the largest contribution to assets in a football club are the players.

As I understand it, player values are based on the residual value of the contract added to an estimate of what the player would cost to replace. For example, an average EPL player would have a 3 year contract with an average wage of circa £50k per week, so worth £7.5 million, if the club then estimate that the cost to replace that player was another £7.7 million he would sit on the books at £15million.
A Championship player on the other hand would probably have a 3 year contract with an average wage of circa £25k per week, so worth £3.75 million, an estimated cost to replace that player might be £3 million, so he would sit on the books at £6.75 million. Less than half the value of an EPL player.
In the case of Villa, their players will have EPL value, but in some cases they might have flex down clauses, so the value decreases following relegation, & I suspect that is why the club is valued higher than Wolves, but lower than us.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 20, 2016, 11:36:18 AM
This is Stoxman's piece on the isssue, covers a lot more factors than mine, I took a simple view of comparing asset values, but it does demonstrate the difference between where we are at the moment & Wolves/Villa


I had a quick look at valuing Albion based on what we know.  As I've said before, I'm not involved in this deal but have bought and brokered a few that have similarities and I used the same model I have previously used. Someone earlier mentioned a multiple of EBITDA.  Personally I wouldn't use that as earnings are far too easy to (legitimately) manipulate although I accept that it's much better than the net profit figure that the E&S etc quote.  I much prefer to use cash flow as it is much harder to dispute.  You either have cash or not.  This is especially important when looking at the massive impact of player transfers.  I believe one needs to take out all player profit and loss and then add in a normalised net player transfer loss per annum.   The methodology I used was:

Apply something called Discounted Cash Flow (DCF).  This is basically a way of turning a stream of future cash flows (such as future TV rights, gate receipts etc) into a value today.  For those who haven't come across the concept you can think about what value you would place on a fiver each year promised by your mate.  A fiver next year is worth less than a fiver today due to inflation and it is worth even less if there is a risk he won't pay.  Albion have an uncertain stream of cash flow as you go out further into the future.  Next year they have revenues guaranteed by the PL and parachute payments after that.  There is therefore a lot of short term certainty (although we aren't certain about net cash flows as wage increases etc are unknowns) but long term rapidly gets uncertain.  The discount rate that is applied to these cash flows is a function of the cost of financing and/or the internal rate of return( IRR)demanded by an investor.  The more leverage needed and the higher the perceived risk,  the more the cash flows are discounted.   We can get a pretty good idea of the discount rates from the cost of "factoring" that almost every PL club uses when selling a player on deferred payment terms.  The costs of these are in the 6-9% range and that gives us a fair indication of the market price of finance.

The DCF part is the crucial part of the valuation.  It's got nothing to do with whether we play good or bad football.  It's just the present value of a stream of cash and allows Albion to be compared to other cash generating assets such as an annual rock concert, a pay and display car park or block of student flats. 

I have read the comparison made by others with the value of Everton but I personally believe that the "half as much=half as valuable" argument is wrong from a DCF perspective for two crucial and linked reasons.  If I were building a DCF for Everton I would happily assume PL cash flow for 10+ years, much longer than for Albion.  I know that other Everton sized clubs have lost PL status but in general,  I believe there is much more (and more than twice) the cash flow predictability than for Albion.  I would also suggest that the risk is great and therefore the IRR or finance cost would need to be much higher (and therefore the discount rate greater).  To give an analogy,  is a tenner a year twice as valuable as a fiver a year?  What if the tenner was promised by a very wealthy and trustworthy friend and the fiver was promised by someone far less reliable? The former is probably 3 or 4 times more valuable, not twice as valuable.

Beyond the very short term  (I modelled 3-5 years),  PL survival is so unpredictable that I simply added a stub value of £20m that could be thought of as the option value attached to a Championship club.  We know that a club's value jumps when it enters the PL and therefore a Championship club with a chance of returning to the PL must have an option value even if its assets and operating cash flows aren't worth much more.

The only thing to add to the equation of DCF+Stub value is any trophy asset premium or hidden asset value. Someone may be happy to pay over the top for the rights to own something cool.  I have assumed in my model that this isn't the case for Albion and that there is no realisable value from redeveloping the Hawthorns in the way that Chelsea, Fulham etc could.

Using this model and publicly available data I struggled to get anywhere near £200m.  To do so required one or more of the following:

-PL cash flows to be modelled way out beyond 5 years
-Unrealistic cost control, especially around player wages. Basically one would have to assume that the new TV deal all goes into the club's coffers rather than players and agents.
-A very low cost of funds or very low IRR expectations.
-A high stub value in the Championship
-A trophy asset premium
-A spell in the Champions League

There's clearly a lot of detail that I don't know about this deal which could effect my model but based on what I can see,  the value of £120-150m is (in my view) much closer to the mark than the £200-250m that is now being mentioned.  Let's see...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 20, 2016, 11:37:38 AM
The wise old bird is still sitting there, its everyone else doing the talking. What ever they say it will change nothing, and that wise old bird will say something when he's ready.Be Patient !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 20, 2016, 11:56:04 AM
I know its picky but what is EPL?

Its called Premier League, not English Premier League!

Get it right please.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 20, 2016, 12:21:30 PM
I know its picky but what is EPL?

Its called Premier League, not English Premier League!

Get it right please.

It's EPL (English Premier League) as opposed to SPL (Scottish Premier League), but if you'd prefer it, I'll just call it PL in future.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 20, 2016, 12:22:03 PM
It's EPL (English Premier League) as opposed to SPL (Scottish Premier League), but if you'd prefer it, I'll just call it PL in future.
swansea?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 20, 2016, 12:26:32 PM
swansea?

Berwick Rangers?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 20, 2016, 12:49:37 PM
fair enough baggiejohn PL from now on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 20, 2016, 12:50:50 PM
Berwick Rangers?

Good point, well made !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 20, 2016, 01:36:56 PM
Seen on side of a Birmingham bus, a picture of a Chinese female.. And it says "good is coming.... it is WJ"
Could this be Wang Jianlin? :)

Also we getting more publicity as on digital billboards in city centre, they advertising ALBION and match day hospitality at hawthorns, and shows ticket prices.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 20, 2016, 01:58:04 PM
Seen on side of a Birmingham bus, a picture of a Chinese female.. And it says "good is coming.... it is WJ"
Could this be Wang Jianlin? :)

Also we getting more publicity as on digital billboards in city centre, they advertising ALBION and match day hospitality at hawthorns, and shows ticket prices.
Walters, Jonathan?? :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on July 20, 2016, 04:42:56 PM
Turnover is a good indicator, profit is better, but businesses are largely valued based on their assets, & the largest contribution to assets in a football club are the players.

As I understand it, player values are based on the residual value of the contract added to an estimate of what the player would cost to replace. For example, an average EPL player would have a 3 year contract with an average wage of circa £50k per week, so worth £7.5 million, if the club then estimate that the cost to replace that player was another £7.7 million he would sit on the books at £15million.
A Championship player on the other hand would probably have a 3 year contract with an average wage of circa £25k per week, so worth £3.75 million, an estimated cost to replace that player might be £3 million, so he would sit on the books at £6.75 million. Less than half the value of an EPL player.
In the case of Villa, their players will have EPL value, but in some cases they might have flex down clauses, so the value decreases following relegation, & I suspect that is why the club is valued higher than Wolves, but lower than us.
The players value is dependant on how much the buying team are willing to pay end of, in this case your valuation of berahino would be 15k??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on July 20, 2016, 05:11:43 PM
This is Stoxman's piece on the isssue, covers a lot more factors than mine, I took a simple view of comparing asset values, but it does demonstrate the difference between where we are at the moment & Wolves/Villa

This is a cracking and very informed piece.  The only other consideration I would add is that the pound is now significantly weaker than before Brexit and providing that funding is coming from abroad makes it much cheaper in a foreign currency than it was a few weeks ago.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 20, 2016, 05:24:45 PM
This is a cracking and very informed piece.  The only other consideration I would add is that the pound is now significantly weaker than before Brexit and providing that funding is coming from abroad makes it much cheaper in a foreign currency than it was a few weeks ago.
It'll probably just mean that Peace would put the price up - "you were willing to pay X yen before, so that'll now be Y pounds please"!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 20, 2016, 05:29:17 PM
The players value is dependant on how much the buying team are willing to pay end of, in this case your valuation of berahino would be 15k??

My valuation of Berahino would be, the value remaining on his contract plus what we would have to pay to replace him. So (allegedly) £15 k per week for 40 weeks = £600,000 plus around £20 million to replace him so circa £21 million.

There is a difference between a players buying/selling price & his value on the club's accounts. I'm taking about his value on the accounts. Taking that into consideration, I don't think a valuation of £150 to £200 million for WBA is too far adrift.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cj21 on July 20, 2016, 06:44:14 PM
What about the value of the acadmey. If there are a couple of gems in there then they could be significant future assets. Surely part of the price should encompass projected academy returns although clearly they are uncertain.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 20, 2016, 07:02:22 PM
What about the value of the acadmey. If there are a couple of gems in there then they could be significant future assets. Surely part of the price should encompass projected academy returns although clearly they are uncertain.

I imagine academy graduates, such as Jonathon Leko are probably included in the asset valuation. The academy itself, would be included in the profit & loss statement as a cost.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 21, 2016, 10:02:52 AM
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/07/21/west-brom-shareholders-want-the-club-sold/

Shareholders want the club sold.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 21, 2016, 11:23:56 AM
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/07/21/west-brom-shareholders-want-the-club-sold/

Shareholders want the club sold.

Not surprised after the recent valuation. Aren't a lot of them in for £18k a piece from an outlay of around £2k?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieVN on July 21, 2016, 11:26:21 AM
Just looked on another site and its saying book a date in your diary for 6th or 7th of august nod  nod wink wink  prob the 7th as its a lucky number in China

In China, 8 is a lucky number and 4 is unlucky. So expect 8/8.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: albionden on July 21, 2016, 12:28:59 PM
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/07/21/west-brom-shareholders-want-the-club-sold/

Another space filler article from the E&D ,  Someone asks someone else about something, there's no response, run article....

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 21, 2016, 04:51:18 PM
Not surprised after the recent valuation. Aren't a lot of them in for £18k a piece from an outlay of around £2k?

This is my point, lack of ambition,treading water and treating shareholders with complete contempt...like he always has.
Of course they only have shares in Albion because they love the club, no need for them to know anything.

Doing a great job.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 21, 2016, 05:09:21 PM
This is my point, lack of ambition,treading water and treating shareholders with complete contempt...like he always has.
Of course they only have shares in Albion because they love the club, no need for them to know anything.

Doing a great job.

Ha if treating shareholders with complete contempt is making them £16k then I'd love to see him treat us with overbearing generosity. As a shareholder, and attending shareholder meetings, the overwhelming majority wouldn't sell them regardless of a takeover anyway, so not sure where the basis of that article comes from. A few will sell but in the grand scheme of things most didn't upgrade their shareholdings to sell them. And those who are holding onto them because they want to own part of the club would probably be against a takeover due to the fact that a mandatory sale of shares will be enforced should the new owner ever get 90% shareholdings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 21, 2016, 05:31:42 PM
Slightly off tangent, but however fashionable it is for clubs to have wealthy owners these days, the most fashionable, richest, famous and successful club on the planet,Real Madrid,is owned by the fans.
Fans are the only people who really do have a clubs interests at heart.
Respect to you for being a  shareholder PsalmXXIII.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bazabaggie73 on July 21, 2016, 07:24:36 PM
An interview on radio WM with a Steve tippin and he says the wands group are trying to over at Wba, you can find the clip on audioboom
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: buzzingbaggie on July 21, 2016, 07:49:40 PM
An interview on radio WM with a Steve tippin and he says the wands group are trying to over at Wba, you can find the clip on audioboom

Who's Steve tippin?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 21, 2016, 08:04:10 PM
Slightly off tangent, but however fashionable it is for clubs to have wealthy owners these days, the most fashionable, richest, famous and successful club on the planet,Real Madrid,is owned by the fans.
Fans are the only people who really do have a clubs interests at heart.
Respect to you for being a  shareholder PsalmXXIII.

Trust me, I worked stupid hours in my University holidays to afford the upgraded share, I feel for those who couldn't at the time. They're a good bunch of guys at the shareholder meetings and I only make the odd one or two being out of the midlands now for work. I try to post the minutes and any announcements they send through which I'll share with folk on here best I can. It's part of the reason I do my best to try give a more balanced idea of the clubs shareholdings and accounts because we are privy to more information than most fans.

There's a lot of dedicated folk who do far more than me to ensure the fans that have shares are kept in the loop and consulted on a variety of club issues. I can do my bit and share that with everyone else.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 21, 2016, 08:04:21 PM
Who's Steve tippin?

I think it's Steve from Tip'n.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 21, 2016, 08:06:05 PM
Trust me, I worked stupid hours in my University holidays to afford the upgraded share, I feel for those who couldn't at the time. They're a good bunch of guys at the shareholder meetings and I only make the odd one or two being out of the midlands now for work. I try to post the minutes and any announcements they send through which I'll share with folk on here best I can. It's part of the reason I do my best to try give a more balanced idea of the clubs shareholdings and accounts because we are privy to more information than most fans.

There's a lot of dedicated folk who do far more than me to ensure the fans that have shares are kept in the loop and consulted on a variety of club issues. I can do my bit and share that with everyone else.

Pity we haven't got a "like" button on here mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: coram_wba906 on July 21, 2016, 08:11:55 PM
Steve Tappin it is.

Here is the link:

https://audioboom.com/boos/4845842-steve-tappin-on-chinese-investment-in-west-midlands-football-clubs?utm_campaign=detailpage&utm_content=retweet&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 21, 2016, 08:13:21 PM
Anybody got the link to Radio WM audioboom please?

Edit Thanks  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 21, 2016, 08:17:55 PM
ill be glad one way or another when this is all over so we concentrate on getting players into the first team that we are desperate for times ticking quickly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 21, 2016, 08:21:48 PM
It is interesting that the Wang Jianlin led Wanda Group rumour just refuses to go away.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 21, 2016, 08:53:04 PM
Could be interesting if we do get a very wealthy, committed and ambitious new owner? All three together in connection with football club ownership are like rocking horse poo though, especially for the medium to longer term?

Would be great to see us push on though as we have reached our glass ceiling as a club without new investment

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on July 21, 2016, 09:07:23 PM
It is interesting that the Wang Jianlin led Wanda Group rumour just refuses to go away.
I'm not keen on overseas owners but they would be my choice for the way Athletico have been steadily built up over time.
Chucking big money at players straight away will only damage the years we have put into building our Academy and such like.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 21, 2016, 09:19:34 PM
I'm not expecting us to go out and buy Messi but one thing I'm excited by is the prospect of investment and pushing on and competing

If it's Wang Jianlin I'll pee my pants and do somersaults
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 21, 2016, 09:33:16 PM
Could this Tappin guy be repeating what the Mirror have said. IE what he is basing that comment on has no real basis?

I hope it is Jianlin
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 21, 2016, 09:36:44 PM
Could this Tappin guy be repeating what the Mirror have said. IE what he is basing that comment on has no real basis?

I hope it is Jianlin

That's what I thought. When he said 'rumoured to be', is he saying general rumours as in the red tops and online or a specific rumour he's heard?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 21, 2016, 09:44:45 PM
In fairness Tappin didn't seem all that convinced by what he was saying at first but then by the end of the clip he seemed pretty certain so I'll still take it with a pinch of salt but he's the best source to suggest the link with the Wanda group so far.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 21, 2016, 09:47:33 PM
He did say allegedly but then further on on the interview said there is a group all of these Chinese billionaires are in and they talk and discuss investment in football.

He also says he does Tai Chi with guy buying Wolves so read into that that you want really his rumour could be from this guy
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 21, 2016, 09:47:53 PM
Can someone tell me roughly what time in the audioboom clip he starts talking about Albion?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 21, 2016, 09:52:59 PM
Can someone tell me roughly what time in the audioboom clip he starts talking about Albion?

Pretty much straight away he mentions it and then by the end he's talking about it again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 21, 2016, 10:04:43 PM
I'm a little excited....

Check this out... He may actually know something

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Tappin
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 21, 2016, 10:37:34 PM
If it's Wang Jianlin I'll pee my pants and do somersaults

And may I be the first to suggest that you wear a nappy so as to avoid any accidental spillages  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 21, 2016, 10:40:45 PM
Not really saying anything we didn't already know. He did say, he was surprised they chose Wolves rather than Leeds.
What he did say though made sense as far as Wolves & Villa were concerned, buy cheap, spend circa £20 million to get them promoted, then they've got a product valued at £100 million +.

Still can't see why anybody would buy Albion, there are loads more Wolves & Villa types out there. Leeds, Blackburn, Bolton, Charlton etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 21, 2016, 10:48:09 PM
Not really saying anything we didn't already know. He did say, he was surprised they chose Wolves rather than Leeds.
What he did say though made sense as far as Wolves & Villa were concerned, buy cheap, spend circa £20 million to get them promoted, then they've got a product valued at £100 million +.

Still can't see why anybody would buy Albion, there are loads more Wolves & Villa types out there. Leeds, Blackburn, Bolton, Charlton etc.

He's a Leeds fan, little dig at Franksy it sounded like.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 21, 2016, 10:50:48 PM
The funny thing about that audio clip is at the first mention of the Wanda group being rumoured to be those trying to take over our club was the reaction of Franksie who actually sounded gutted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 21, 2016, 11:17:30 PM
The funny thing about that audio clip is at the first mention of the Wanda group being rumoured to be those trying to take over our club was the reaction of Franksie who actually sounded gutted.
He sounded gutted that wang jianlin is taking us over?! Why would he be gutted?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 21, 2016, 11:40:24 PM
May offer 20 million for another player.
Maybe someone behind these bids?

Could the takeover be almost complete and peace is seeing how the new owners are willing to help, before finishing it?
He did say he only wants someone who has the club at heart ect..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on July 21, 2016, 11:41:07 PM
He sounded gutted that wang jianlin is taking us over?! Why would he be gutted?
isnt he a vile supporter?although i do like his drivetime show
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 21, 2016, 11:43:03 PM
Funny how villa n wolves now worth more than us, yet they are in lower league and lower value
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 21, 2016, 11:43:53 PM
isnt he a vile supporter?although i do like his drivetime show

Ohhhh explains why he is gutted then lol :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on July 22, 2016, 12:13:06 AM
I don't want to be a kill joy but:

The Chinese Government have stated in the last 6 months that they want to see China become a global football power on the world stage. This plays into their "soft power" narrative of trying to gain influence through cultural and other means.

This has led to a number of Chinese based billionaires, all of whom could easily wake up one day to find their assets have been confiscated by the state, to "head the call" and start buying up football clubs, be that Chinese Superleague clubs like Shanghai Shenhua, or English clubs like Athletico Madrid, Aston Villa and Wolves.The cynic in me (and many business commentators) says that they are simply trying to keep on the good side of Xi Jinping. The other factor is of course gaining assets outside of China that cannot be confiscated so easily, which includes football clubs (which in their mind, always seem to be unaffected by economic trends like recessions).

The likes of Tony Xia and the Fosun group may well not put any of their own money into the clubs, and could simply run the clubs as any other owners do (Look at QPR nowadays with one of the richest men in the world having a shareholding).

For this reason, I don't think we should expect untold riches if the Wanda group do eventually buy the Albion. The fact they failed to convince Peace last year that they had the money to buy the club does give me cause to be realistic.

The big positive however is that the Wanda group, if they do take over, have a history with Athletico Madrid which will hopefully give them a good grounding in how to run a successful football club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 22, 2016, 12:41:27 AM
Firstly Steve Tappin would appear to have some expertise on Chinese business but I don't think he has any particular insight on the specific issue of Wanda buying us, other than the persistent rumour that they are the interested party.

Secondly I agree with Baggies that Billionaire Owner does not necessarily equal vast amounts to spend on transfers. We are still in the very early stages of clubs being owned by mainland Chinese investors. We simply don't know exactly why they want to buy into the English game nor how they will run the clubs they own.

   

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 22, 2016, 01:15:18 AM
I think we all know that the Chinese have big superstitions over numbers and I should know living in Asia so I just wonder if a deal has effectively been done and that the most auspicious date is being waited for (assuming it is Chinese involved). I've read that 8/8 (8th August) could be the significant date but who knows.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 22, 2016, 01:28:50 AM
I think we all know that the Chinese have big superstitions over numbers and I should know living in Asia so I just wonder if a deal has effectively been done and that the most auspicious date is being waited for (assuming it is Chinese involved). I've read that 8/8 (8th August) could be the significant date but who knows.

This has been said the last three summers with regards announcing news of a takeover. Surely if it's that lucky you sign the deal then not announce it. The announcement is irrelevant if you actually did the thing you want luck for weeks before.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: albionden on July 22, 2016, 01:29:17 AM
I hope were not waitin till 8/8 because thats only 5 days before palace game !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 22, 2016, 07:20:05 AM
On the contrary it could be close to being finished and the club are trying to push through some moves before the prices are bumped up?

Either way it doesn't effect the recruitment this season too much. Traditionally we do most of our deals the last couple of weeks of August.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: deebo on July 22, 2016, 07:33:45 AM
Hmmm, it's not a denial from the Wanda Group twitter account-

https://twitter.com/DalianWanda/status/756291811061010433
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 22, 2016, 07:34:26 AM
On the contrary it could be close to being finished and the club are trying to push through some moves before the prices are bumped up?

Either way it doesn't effect the recruitment this season too much. Traditionally we do most of our deals the last couple of weeks of August.

I had that thought yesterday, seems we are more aggressive in the market than normal, something has changed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 22, 2016, 07:35:52 AM
I really hope our future owners are a bit more rational than to truly believe in lucky numbers colours etc... Or maybe that is why I'm not a billionaire. Hit the roulette on 8/8 backing number 8 with my life savings what could possibly go wrong?  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2016, 08:02:05 AM
Don't you just love Chinese conspiracy theories!!!!

Personally I don't get it. I thought China was ruled by the Communist party so where is all the money coming from? I think that the good doctor and the 'other one' will both fail to deliver. I cannot see these deals as anything other than 'offshore investment opportunities' and I don't want our wonderful club going the same way....... 

I think that 'Baggies' post above sums it up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 22, 2016, 08:09:11 AM
I hope were not waitin till 8/8 because thats only 5 days before palace game !

Maybe 8 days before the 8th month, roll on tonorrow then!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 22, 2016, 08:11:14 AM
I had that thought yesterday, seems we are more aggressive in the market than normal, something has changed.

An extra £60 million in TV money has changed. Little Leicester, are soon to be big Leicester with all the money they're throwing around at the moment. It's difficult to see how they won't fall foul of the FFP rrules. Jamie Vardy  goes from a £2 million a year contract to a £5 million a year contract, similar with Schmiekel & Drinkwater. Mahrez probably going to get a £5 million a year deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 22, 2016, 08:13:52 AM
Hmmm, it's not a denial from the Wanda Group twitter account-

https://twitter.com/DalianWanda/status/756291811061010433

I would say this is quite significant.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: deebo on July 22, 2016, 08:15:33 AM
I would say this is quite significant.

Me too, it's strange for such a large company to reply to a message like this. We can only hope...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2016, 08:18:17 AM
Me too, it's strange for such a large company to reply to a message like this. We can only hope...

On its own it is quite ambiguous

Does it confirm it is in talks with us? Or does it just say 'We will let you know if we decide to buy West Brom'..... or any other club in England, Europe or the rest of the world......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: thelawyer on July 22, 2016, 08:22:08 AM
It's interesting that when they replied they didn't just copy his text and said west brom, they say West Brom. Might be reading too much into that but we must properly be in their stream of consciousness if nothing else.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 22, 2016, 08:34:52 AM
I don't want to be a kill joy but:

The Chinese Government have stated in the last 6 months that they want to see China become a global football power on the world stage. This plays into their "soft power" narrative of trying to gain influence through cultural and other means.

This has led to a number of Chinese based billionaires, all of whom could easily wake up one day to find their assets have been confiscated by the state, to "head the call" and start buying up football clubs, be that Chinese Superleague clubs like Shanghai Shenhua, or English clubs like Athletico Madrid, Aston Villa and Wolves.The cynic in me (and many business commentators) says that they are simply trying to keep on the good side of Xi Jinping. The other factor is of course gaining assets outside of China that cannot be confiscated so easily, which includes football clubs (which in their mind, always seem to be unaffected by economic trends like recessions).

The likes of Tony Xia and the Fosun group may well not put any of their own money into the clubs, and could simply run the clubs as any other owners do (Look at QPR nowadays with one of the richest men in the world having a shareholding).

For this reason, I don't think we should expect untold riches if the Wanda group do eventually buy the Albion. The fact they failed to convince Peace last year that they had the money to buy the club does give me cause to be realistic.

The big positive however is that the Wanda group, if they do take over, have a history with Athletico Madrid which will hopefully give them a good grounding in how to run a successful football club.

I think you make some really valid points there.
Listening to the podcast put on here last night, the recurring theme seems to be one of Chinese Investors buying failing UK football clubs, & adding value until they are showing a profit. I really can't see where WBA fits into this profile, could you help me to understand why a Chinese investor would buy WBA?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 22, 2016, 08:48:37 AM
I think you make some really valid points there.
Listening to the podcast put on here last night, the recurring theme seems to be one of Chinese Investors buying failing UK football clubs, & adding value until they are showing a profit. I really can't see where WBA fits into this profile, could you help me to understand why a Chinese investor would buy WBA?
maybe a Chinese investor is looking to make bigger profits than wba currently achieve, its possible by finishing a lot higher up the league and getting a European spot.it would take investment but its doable. and who knows how much the next tv rights deal will be worth.as a football club we haven't hit our ceiling by a long way and who knows where new investment might take us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 22, 2016, 10:41:25 AM
I don't want to be a kill joy but:

The Chinese Government have stated in the last 6 months that they want to see China become a global football power on the world stage. This plays into their "soft power" narrative of trying to gain influence through cultural and other means.

This has led to a number of Chinese based billionaires, all of whom could easily wake up one day to find their assets have been confiscated by the state, to "head the call" and start buying up football clubs, be that Chinese Superleague clubs like Shanghai Shenhua, or English clubs like Athletico Madrid, Aston Villa and Wolves.The cynic in me (and many business commentators) says that they are simply trying to keep on the good side of Xi Jinping. The other factor is of course gaining assets outside of China that cannot be confiscated so easily, which includes football clubs (which in their mind, always seem to be unaffected by economic trends like recessions).

The likes of Tony Xia and the Fosun group may well not put any of their own money into the clubs, and could simply run the clubs as any other owners do (Look at QPR nowadays with one of the richest men in the world having a shareholding).

For this reason, I don't think we should expect untold riches if the Wanda group do eventually buy the Albion. The fact they failed to convince Peace last year that they had the money to buy the club does give me cause to be realistic.

The big positive however is that the Wanda group, if they do take over, have a history with Athletico Madrid which will hopefully give them a good grounding in how to run a successful football club.


Great post, regardless of who buys us and when,
1) WBA is a business so has to stand on its own meaning sensible growth = no Man City style revolution
2)  they're unlikely to be Albion fans so things can change = Randy Lerner massive investment then pulled out/ changed strategy.

Whoever leads the club post a takeover  will be key
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zac on July 22, 2016, 11:30:44 AM
Taken from the Wanda Group Twitter...

"@DalianWanda: @KyleJonesKJ Wanda is always on the hunt for more sports and entertainment deals. We'll let you know if we decide to take on West Brom."
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bradleysrocket on July 22, 2016, 11:34:17 AM
Taken from the Wanda Group Twitter...

"@DalianWanda: @KyleJonesKJ Wanda is always on the hunt for more sports and entertainment deals. We'll let you know if we decide to take on West Brom."
It was in response to someone begging them to buy Albion. Not a denial of interest but then that wasn't a question they were asked.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 22, 2016, 12:17:40 PM
That seems to be as close to an admittance that they aren't talking to us as you can get!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2016, 12:22:15 PM
That seems to be as close to an admittance that they aren't talking to us as you can get!


My thoughts entirely Mark.

What is embarrassing is the number of Albion fans on twitter 'begging' them to buy the club!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 22, 2016, 12:32:48 PM
The takeover is 99.9 percent done unless the Wanda group are somehow attached to the party which the deal is close with them they are to late the deal is all but done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 22, 2016, 12:37:06 PM
The takeover is 99.9 percent done unless the Wanda group are somehow attached to the party which the deal is close with them they are to late the deal is all but done.

Thats going to get tongues wagging!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2016, 12:38:46 PM
The takeover is 99.9 percent done unless the Wanda group are somehow attached to the party which the deal is close with them they are to late the deal is all but done.

Thanks 38 - are you saying the deal is done and if Wanda are interested they are too late?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 22, 2016, 12:39:55 PM
Thanks 38 - are you saying the deal is done and if Wanda are interested they are too late?

Yes it's extremely close I've been informed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 22, 2016, 12:46:43 PM
Hey 38, can you say if it's a consortium,individual and their nationality yet?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 22, 2016, 12:47:27 PM
Hey 38, can you say if it's a consortium,individual and their nationality yet?

No idea I'd expect a announcement early August
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 22, 2016, 12:48:14 PM
Despite all this the Bham Mail are running a story that the Wanda group "have not ruled out a takeover". Christ. Talk about twisting words.

If they'd said "we cannot comment on our business strategy" or something of that ilk then I'd be more interested but as it is we're in the same position as before.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlterAlbion91 on July 22, 2016, 12:49:53 PM
Baggie38-Any idea whether the potential buyer is Jack Ma?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 22, 2016, 12:55:04 PM
That seems to be as close to an admittance that they aren't talking to us as you can get!

I work for a company that has a major global parent company with worldwide operations. I can't imagine Dave downstairs who handles our social media account would have know anything about any major transactions.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 22, 2016, 01:35:00 PM
As if the Birmingham Mail is running a story about a Twitter reply. Lost all semblance of credibility as a news source for me. Absolutely dreadful.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 22, 2016, 01:57:18 PM

My thoughts entirely Mark.

What is embarrassing is the number of Albion fans on twitter 'begging' them to buy the club!
Twitter has always had that though, fans who are overly-excited and hero worship the players as if they are Gods.
It's part of the reason why footballers have such big egos, as they're constantly told how fantastic they are on twitter.

As the tweet alluded to anyway, it won't be Wanda.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 22, 2016, 01:59:38 PM
So it's not a fishy called wanda then
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 22, 2016, 02:04:39 PM
No idea I'd expect a announcement early August

Hi baggie38,

Any hunch on the reason for the suggested early August announcement if the deal is so close now?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on July 22, 2016, 03:27:57 PM
Taken from the Wanda Group Twitter...

"@DalianWanda: @KyleJonesKJ Wanda is always on the hunt for more sports and entertainment deals. We'll let you know if we decide to take on West Brom."

Two reasons why I think it won't be Wanda , they are on the the hunt for sports and entertainment deals.

Can't see that with TP in charge.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: macc_baggie on July 22, 2016, 03:43:25 PM
Probably utterly unrelated but Adam Hurrey (does bits for ESPN and the Telegraph) retweeted a video he'd previously put up of our 78 visit to China.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 22, 2016, 03:54:28 PM
Strangely the original article in the Mirror said we were being taken over by Wanda and Robin Li was NOT buying wolves.
The second story was correct, i hope the first is too....i think.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lonions on July 22, 2016, 07:38:56 PM
If that is indeed Wanda groups official Twitter account. I would say there pretty close to a sale. Also they've apparently been exclusive talks with someone for a couple of weeks. I didn't know that but apparently true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 22, 2016, 07:46:22 PM
I think everybody is taking the twitter thing far too seriously. I used to work in marketing and it's highly likely that the Wanda group outsource that kind of work or have a department for it and it's like somebody else said - highly unlikely that they'd let the social media people know about big business deals being negotiated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 22, 2016, 07:51:39 PM
don't see the excitement some do over that tweet, its neither a denial or an admittance so basically its as you were. or is it me being blind. 8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 22, 2016, 07:54:37 PM
The fact that the club has said nothing indicates it's true. The silence is the giveaway. We are about to be sold.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 22, 2016, 08:01:55 PM
The fact that the club has said nothing indicates it's true. The silence is the giveaway. We are about to be sold.


Yes but most likely to the steptoe group :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 22, 2016, 08:18:49 PM
Wang Jianlin has recently bought a property in Kensington. Didn't Peace live there? Kensington i mean.
Probably adding two and two and getting five.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 22, 2016, 08:37:40 PM
Guys, you're making 2+2=22, rumours, supositions, speculation, twitter,press reports, denials, conspiracy theories, you've all gone crazy.

Smacks of desperation and delusion to me.




Just wait and see
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 22, 2016, 08:42:07 PM
Guys, you're making 2+2=22, rumours, supositions, speculation, twitter,press reports, denials, conspiracy theories, you've all gone crazy.

Smacks of desperation and delusion to me.




Just wait and see



One can only dream eh
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 22, 2016, 08:46:50 PM
Guys, you're making 2+2=22, rumours, supositions, speculation, twitter,press reports, denials, conspiracy theories, you've all gone crazy.

Smacks of desperation and delusion to me.




Just wait and see

Are you serious? It's common knowledge Peace is looking to sell and with the pound dropping in value, now is the time for Chinese Billionaires to invest. Whether it happens is another thing but we are 100% in negotiations to sell the club. Nothing to do with conspiracy theories, it's more to do with non-disclosure agreements and business etiquette.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 22, 2016, 09:27:34 PM
Wanda Group are also primary sale of the UFC for $4.2 Billion now that a Niche sport. They are into football, and, want a Premier League presence.. My point is Nobody know anything. I don't get where all the peace haters are so sure he's selling us to the next Carson Yeung You're as bad as the people who are getting over excited. Let see how it plays over the next week (10 day Wndow) It looks like his selling Professor Chadwick who studies Anglo-Chinese trade has said as much all we can do is wait and see who to
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 22, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
maybe a Chinese investor is looking to make bigger profits than wba currently achieve, its possible by finishing a lot higher up the league and getting a European spot.it would take investment but its doable. and who knows how much the next tv rights deal will be worth.as a football club we haven't hit our ceiling by a long way and who knows where new investment might take us.

OK i'll kind of buy it, could you post some hypothetical sums then?

For example how much extra revenue could we expect from say a 5th place? Could we do that with the same level of cost, & if not, how much additional cost? A fifth place would give us a Europa League slot, how much additional revenue could we expect from a Europa League campaign. If the squad is competing in the Europa League, the FA Cup, the League Cup & the PL, would the quality of the squad have to improve, & if so how much would that cost?
As a example, If reports are to be believed, Leicester's wages cost is likely to be at least double & probably upwards of 2.5 times 2015/16 seasons costs, just by improvements in players contracts. It's difficult to see how their operating profits will increase
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 22, 2016, 10:06:47 PM
OK i'll kind of buy it, could you post some hypothetical sums then?

For example how much extra revenue could we expect from say a 5th place? Could we do that with the same level of cost, & if not, how much additional cost? A fifth place would give us a Europa League slot, how much additional revenue could we expect from a Europa League campaign. If the squad is competing in the Europa League, the FA Cup, the League Cup & the PL, would the quality of the squad have to improve, & if so how much would that cost?
As a example, If reports are to be believed, Leicester's wages cost is likely to be at least double & probably upwards of 2.5 times 2015/16 seasons costs, just by improvements in players contracts. It's difficult to see how their operating profits will increase

I agree with this. People keep saying Wanda, but seriously the sole intention of Wanda is to make money.

The ideal situation going into a football club is to improve profits. With us, it's pretty much impossible. Even if we finished 5th, our money wouldn't rise much - and we won't crack the top 4.
Buying a Championship club where you aim to get promoted and then finish mid-table year on year makes more sense for an owner.

The only hope with someone like Wanda would be to use us as an advertisement vehicle, i.e. shirt/stadium sponsorship of their brand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 22, 2016, 10:16:25 PM
Wanda or not there obviously ARE interested parties. At the price we are too big a risk for someone looking to make a quick 60 million. So I lean towards a huge buyer using us as a vehicle. Revitalising the local area and growing their interests in the UK.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 22, 2016, 10:22:48 PM


The only hope with someone like Wanda would be to use us as an advertisement vehicle, i.e. shirt/stadium sponsorship of their brand.

Agree, & you wouldn't have to pay £150 to £200 million for that, £5 million a year at most.

The Chinese, for profit, deal makes absolutely no sense at all to me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 22, 2016, 10:23:58 PM
Wanda or not there obviously ARE interested parties. At the price we are too big a risk for someone looking to make a quick 60 million. So I lean towards a huge buyer using us as a vehicle. Revitalising the local area and growing their interests in the UK.

Who have you got in mind then Jacko?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 22, 2016, 10:36:31 PM
OK i'll kind of buy it, could you post some hypothetical sums then?

For example how much extra revenue could we expect from say a 5th place? Could we do that with the same level of cost, & if not, how much additional cost? A fifth place would give us a Europa League slot, how much additional revenue could we expect from a Europa League campaign. If the squad is competing in the Europa League, the FA Cup, the League Cup & the PL, would the quality of the squad have to improve, & if so how much would that cost?
As a example, If reports are to be believed, Leicester's wages cost is likely to be at least double & probably upwards of 2.5 times 2015/16 seasons costs, just by improvements in players contracts. It's difficult to see how their operating profits will increase
regarding Leicester's wage increase they will receive £12m alone from the group stages in the champions league, a possible £1.5m for any win or £0.5m for a draw.
there is big money from competing in Europe that will cover any wage increases.
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=1858497.html
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 22, 2016, 10:51:53 PM
Are you serious? It's common knowledge Peace is looking to sell and with the pound dropping in value, now is the time for Chinese Billionaires to invest. Whether it happens is another thing but we are 100% in negotiations to sell the club. Nothing to do with conspiracy theories, it's more to do with non-disclosure agreements and business etiquette.

May I suggest you read through some of the posts for the last three or four days, I don't think I said anything about the club being up for sale.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 22, 2016, 11:09:30 PM
regarding Leicester's wage increase they will receive £12m alone from the group stages in the champions league, a possible £1.5m for any win or £0.5m for a draw.
there is big money from competing in Europe that will cover any wage increases.
http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=1858497.html

Vardy & Mahrez's wages will take half of that. Allegedly those two alone have had a collective increase of £120k per week = £6 million per year. Drinkwater & Schmeichel have each been offered an increase of £40k per week = £4million per year, so I'm not sure it will.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 22, 2016, 11:24:06 PM
The fact that the club has said nothing indicates it's true. The silence is the giveaway. We are about to be sold.

I think there's a game going on.  Deal probably already agreed, but a desire not to announce it yet as we need to buy 6/7 players and selling clubs will just put their asking prices for players up if it's known that we are flush with cash.   All stacks up with the bid activity over the past 48 hours.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 23, 2016, 07:32:30 AM
Vardy & Mahrez's wages will take half of that. Allegedly those two alone have had a collective increase of £120k per week = £6 million per year. Drinkwater & Schmeichel have each been offered an increase of £40k per week = £4million per year, so I'm not sure it will.
but the £24m profit from the sale of Kante will. :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 23, 2016, 08:08:06 AM
People keep saying Wanda, but seriously the sole intention of Wanda is to make money.
What's Peace's intention been over the years?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 23, 2016, 08:29:36 AM
I think there's a game going on.  Deal probably already agreed, but a desire not to announce it yet as we need to buy 6/7 players and selling clubs will just put their asking prices for players up if it's known that we are flush with cash.   All stacks up with the bid activity over the past 48 hours.

This for me Overseas. I think it's near enough done and we're trying to get a few players in first . I'm not in the know at all just would make sense to do that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2016, 08:32:07 AM
What's Peace's intention been over the years?

Peace, at least has an affiliation with WBA. W'ell just be a small dot on a balance sheet in Bejing.
Before we get excited over this, we really need to understand the motivation for the purchase. What it definitely won't be, is to look after the interests of WBA. If it's not working for the buyer, the first thing that will happen is a withdrawal of funds, & we'll sink faster than a lead balloon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 23, 2016, 08:39:27 AM
Peace, at least has an affiliation with WBA. W'ell just be a small dot on a balance sheet in Bejing.
Before we get excited over this, we really need to understand the motivation for the purchase. What it definitely won't be, is to look after the interests of WBA. If it's not working for the buyer, the first thing that will happen is a withdrawal of funds, & we'll sink faster than a lead balloon.

I tend to agree with you on this BaggieJohn. My real concern is that if we fall under chinese rule and we get asset stripped or just 'mothballed' for years, we are only going one way. Imagine the irony of looking back at the Peace/Pulis years with affection!

My reservation is that the Chinese have no loyalty to the Club; all we are is an overseas investment/asset.... and that worries me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2016, 08:40:14 AM
This for me Vanerlei. I think it's near enough done and we're trying to get a few players in first . I'm not in the know at all just would make sense to do that.

Not sure that stacks up either, the opening prices for players (transfer fees & wages) would be inflated on the basis that WBA might be a bit wealthier, That's assuming ours was the first bid, if other clubs had bid for a player, the price is not going to increase just because it's WBA. I'm pretty certain a lot of these transactions are done on the grapevine
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 23, 2016, 08:52:55 AM
Peace, at least has an affiliation with WBA. W'ell just be a small dot on a balance sheet in Bejing.
Before we get excited over this, we really need to understand the motivation for the purchase. What it definitely won't be, is to look after the interests of WBA. If it's not working for the buyer, the first thing that will happen is a withdrawal of funds, & we'll sink faster than a lead balloon.

I see where you are coming from, but the FFP rules actually help us.  Owners cannot just "withdraw funds" because there are very strict limits now on debt levels.  Money has to be put in mainly as equity (capital), not as debt, which changes the dynamics completely.

The best example of this is Chelsea.  Abramovich had lent them £800m. If his situation changed (and there was major litigation between him and Berevosky a few years back), he may have been forced to call in his loan and Chelsea would gave gone bust with no hope of repaying him.  But he had to convert his loan into equity, which means no obligation for Chelsea to repay him, and the only way to get his money back is to sell his shares.  If there's nobody out there prepared to buy his shares at what he thinks they are worth, then there is nothing he can do.  It removes the risk of wealthy owners throwing a tantrum, demanding their money back and the club collapsing because they can't possibly repay it.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2016, 08:57:24 AM
I tend to agree with you on this BaggieJohn. My real concern is that if we fall under chinese rule and we get asset stripped or just 'mothballed' for years, we are only going one way. Imagine the irony of looking back at the Peace/Pulis years with affection!

My reservation is that the Chinese have no loyalty to the Club; all we are is an overseas investment/asset.... and that worries me.

You can't really asset strip a football club, most of the asset value is in the players. If we failed to meet the objectives of the buyer (Say Champions League in 3 years), & don't forget, there's only a 4 in 20 chance of dong that, & a 3 in 20 chance of gong the other way, they would first of all put us up for sale again, & secondly replace expensive players with less expensive one's. If it got really bad we might even be wound up to cut losses.

I'm just a supporter, with no links to the club whatsoever, but this really makes no sense to me at all. JP is renowned for his left field solutions & I have a feeling this might just be one of them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2016, 09:06:54 AM
I see where you are coming from, but the FFP rules actually help us.  Owners cannot just "withdraw funds" because there are very strict limits now on debt levels.  Money has to be put in mainly as equity (capital), not as debt, which changes the dynamics completely.

The best example of this is Chelsea.  Abramovich had lent them £800m. If his situation changed (and there was major litigation between him and Berevosky a few years back), he may have been forced to call in his loan and Chelsea would gave gone bust with no hope of repaying him.  But he had to convert his loan into equity, which means no obligation for Chelsea to repay him, and the only way to get his money back is to sell his shares.  If there's nobody out there prepared to buy his shares at what he thinks they are worth, then there is nothing he can do.  It removes the risk of wealthy owners throwing a tantrum, demanding their money back and the club collapsing because they can't possibly repay it.

I think Abramovich is slightly different, when you look at his enormous personal wealth, it makes sense for him to have number of tax sinks. I suspect Chelsea is one of them.
Also Abramovich & the owners of Man City, ManU etc are all their own men, not driven by some Governmental Ideology. What happens when China decides that Baseball is the new karma?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 23, 2016, 09:16:52 AM
I think Abramovich is slightly different, when you look at his enormous personal wealth, it makes sense for him to have number of tax sinks. I suspect Chelsea is one of them.
Also Abramovich & the owners of Man City, ManU etc are all their own men, not driven by some Governmental Ideology. What happens when China decides that Baseball is the new karma?

The point I'm making is that if the Chinese put money in as equity, not as debt, then a change of strategy by them further down the line doesn't risk the future of the club, whereas in the past, they could have put it in as loans and just demanded their money back and the club could go bust having to repay it.

It makes no difference who the owner is or what their ideology is.  If it's funded by equity, not debt, then they are all in the same boat.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2016, 09:24:10 AM
The point I'm making is that if the Chinese put money in as equity, not as debt, then a change of strategy by them further down the line doesn't risk the future of the club, whereas in the past, they could have put it in as loans and just demanded their money back and the club could go bust having to repay it.

It makes no difference who the owner is or what their ideology is.  If it's funded by equity, not debt, then they are all in the same boat.

Yes got you now, but if it's not working they could still walk away. IMO The business motivation would not help WBA long term, the motivation has to be multi dimensional, I'm just not getting that from the Chinese.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 23, 2016, 09:25:55 AM
I think Abramovich is slightly different, when you look at his enormous personal wealth, it makes sense for him to have number of tax sinks. I suspect Chelsea is one of them.
Also Abramovich & the owners of Man City, ManU etc are all their own men, not driven by some Governmental Ideology. What happens when China decides that Baseball is the new karma?

Football is the biggest sport in the world, watched by millions worldwide. I can't see silly game's like Rounders and Netball  dislodging  it anytime soon, leave the girly games to the Americans.
Having said that, i too share you worries concerning Chinese owners.
Once/if we are sold, the club will belong to the Chinese, how much say will the fans have on how it's run and how much would the Chinese listen?
It's a tough one, we do need a good investor in the club, but whether we get one or whether we are left with old mothwallet remains to be seen.
It's a gamble, a big gamble and we could just as easily go the other way. But if the Status Quo remains and this is as good as it gets, we would always be asking what if.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 23, 2016, 09:34:31 AM
I think Abramovich is slightly different, when you look at his enormous personal wealth, it makes sense for him to have number of tax sinks. I suspect Chelsea is one of them.
Also Abramovich & the owners of Man City, ManU etc are all their own men, not driven by some Governmental Ideology. What happens when China decides that Baseball is the new karma?

It's almost inevitable that this trend for overseas investors in UK clubs will change and those same investors will move on to other areas, sports or countries .  We've tried 'money ball' under Peace and it's worked well to a point but the game is changing again with the big opportunities coming from Asia and America in the future so longer term we need
1) a bigger fan base overall
2) Global reach
3) the potential for our backers to pull out investment to provide a boost when it's needed.

None of the above would happen under Peace and I'm sure he knows that too well. Peace has been great for Albion in my view and Albion have been great for Peace of course but i think it's worth trying a different strategy for a while to see if we can push on. It might fail or succeed , we'll never know unless we try?

We have great foundations to build on e.g. Own ground, academy , reliable fanbase and some good people at the club who understand the game and our position in it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 23, 2016, 09:43:53 AM
I would imagine there would be a clause in the contract, as there is at Wolves, whereby a new owner would be committed to investing so much into the players and ground as part of any deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 23, 2016, 10:04:43 AM
If a large corporation like Wanda were to buy us they are in it for the money.  It is a good thing that an organisation that is dispassionate about the investment can see's a solid long term financial future for the club.

Do they care about the club like you or I? No, but equally their investment only makes sense if they can keep us in the Premier League and as such they have sufficient skin the game to want the club to succeed.

The bigger question is how does owning West Bromwich Albion integrate with the Corporation's broader strategic goals?  Wanda for instance have interests in sports broadcasting,entertainment and property development. It is not difficult to see how owning a Premier League club in an area that is ripe for development might work for them. Equally they are very keen to diversify away from China and have been buying Western assets. It is very much a case of the one hand washing the other.

We are never going to be owned by a fan, a corporation with a clear strategy might be  better than a billionaire on a bit of an ego trip. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 23, 2016, 10:11:44 AM
What's Peace's intention been over the years?
He's been making money...by improving the club which is what I was saying.
He originally took us over as predominantly a Championship club, now we're a Premier League club. However, he has hit a ceiling. To take us higher, he would have to take ridiculous risks in spending.

That's my point entirely. Peace took us over with a fairly 'easy' route to improve, whoever takes us over now will have a very difficult time improving profits...unless they use us a giant advert.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 23, 2016, 10:19:32 AM
He's been making money...by improving the club which is what I was saying.
He originally took us over as predominantly a Championship club, now we're a Premier League club. However, he has hit a ceiling. To take us higher, he would have to take ridiculous risks in spending.
We'll just have to wait and see, although I'm sure the waiting is becoming ever more frustrating for everyone.

It's certainly true that we've hit a ceiling and all we've really done for the past few seasons is stagnate from a club development perspective, so something different will at least have an excitement factor about it, for a while at least!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 23, 2016, 10:28:15 AM
He's been making money...by improving the club which is what I was saying.
He originally took us over as predominantly a Championship club, now we're a Premier League club. However, he has hit a ceiling. To take us higher, he would have to take ridiculous risks in spending.

That's my point entirely. Peace took us over with a fairly 'easy' route to improve, whoever takes us over now will have a very difficult time improving profits...unless they use us a giant advert.

Which is maybe how it'll go, which, brings up another thing naming rights to the stadium. Would you mind if it brought a lot of revenue? It will always be the Hawthorns to me and stay that way. I would't have much of a problem
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2016, 11:11:47 AM


The bigger question is how does owning West Bromwich Albion integrate with the Corporation's broader strategic goals?

Is the key question for me, & I just don't see how the Chinese culture fits with the strategic goals that JP has for the football club. Certainly JP appreciates that the club matters to the fans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on July 23, 2016, 11:24:02 AM
The fact that West Brom is outside the Birmingham boundary probably won't matter a jot to potential investors.
They could see us as the only premier league team in England's 2nd largest city and they would get the kudos of owning a premier league team immediately (unlike Wolves and Villa). That could well appeal to them, though how they plan to develop us as an asset is a more complicated matter.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 23, 2016, 11:36:46 AM
I think there's a game going on.  Deal probably already agreed, but a desire not to announce it yet as we need to buy 6/7 players and selling clubs will just put their asking prices for players up if it's known that we are flush with cash.   All stacks up with the bid activity over the past 48 hours.

Exactly. I genuinely believe we will have new owners within the next 4 weeks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 23, 2016, 11:41:17 AM
Which is maybe how it'll go, which, brings up another thing naming rights to the stadium. Would you mind if it brought a lot of revenue? It will always be the Hawthorns to me and stay that way. I would't have much of a problem

It depends on much money it bought in and if it was reinvested into the team. As well it depends on the name, i.e. "Sports Direct Arena" was awful, whereas "The Emirates" is more tolerable. Still, it's all a bit soul destroying but is definitely part of the modern game, sadly. As long as the money was put into the team then I wouldn't mind so much, but if it was taken out then it would not be a good thing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 23, 2016, 12:47:05 PM
Rename?

Birds nest with Throstle in it?  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on July 23, 2016, 12:54:25 PM
I think there's a game going on.  Deal probably already agreed, but a desire not to announce it yet as we need to buy 6/7 players and selling clubs will just put their asking prices for players up if it's known that we are flush with cash.   All stacks up with the bid activity over the past 48 hours.
I fully see the point...but suspect that everyone and his dog will have worked out our position now anyway. It certainly looks like being a painful waiting job though both on takeover and signings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 23, 2016, 12:56:12 PM
Let's hope were not left crying in our soup eh?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 23, 2016, 01:08:23 PM
It depends on much money it bought in and if it was reinvested into the team. As well it depends on the name, i.e. "Sports Direct Arena" was awful, whereas "The Emirates" is more tolerable. Still, it's all a bit soul destroying but is definitely part of the modern game, sadly. As long as the money was put into the team then I wouldn't mind so much, but if it was taken out then it would not be a good thing.

That what I meant any investor doing purely for benevolent reasons. As you say Sport Direct arena was SO bad that people just called it St. James's Park anyway. I think 1 of the best renaming was Bescot to Bank's although I perfer the former the latter isn't  horrible. For the sake of arguemeant the name gets changed to "The Dailian Wanda stadium" just for arguement sake and it brings say £400m sponsership over 4 years. I'd be cool with that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 23, 2016, 01:18:15 PM
At the Albion we're a traditional bunch - look at the pin stripes strip furore . Any new owner will need to pander to this side of the club. We have a rich and proud history as well as a richer and prouder future in the modern game (hopefully). Peace always understood this very well and still made a few mistakes in the fan's eyes so we'll need to understand the new guys will likely make a few mistakes along he way too. Provided they listen to fans and keep the 'soul' of the club intact ,  they/ we should be fine.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on July 23, 2016, 01:24:15 PM
The stadium will be renamed after a takeover. 100% guaranteed. It's the one main income stream that hasn't been exploited. Ffp dictates that any significant increase in wage bill must come from non tv revenue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 23, 2016, 01:25:47 PM
Let's hope were not left crying in our soup eh?

Hopefully we wont I think JP is trying to sell to right people. People who study Anglo-Chinese Trade have said a deal is happening. they just don't know who with. The Club Itself has been suspiciously quiet why not kill all rumours? Going back to the UFC that took 6 months to sell for a lot lot more. 2 weeks before Dailian Wanda were denigning involvement, but, it turns out they were the money part of the consortium. Now I'm not saying it's them. I'm just saying nobody knows who yet
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 23, 2016, 02:06:50 PM
The stadium will be renamed after a takeover. 100% guaranteed. It's the one main income stream that hasn't been exploited. Ffp dictates that any significant increase in wage bill must come from non tv revenue.

I hope not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 23, 2016, 02:42:09 PM
I think there is a world of difference between stadium naming rights being sold as part of a new build like the Amex rather than a tacky rebranding like the ill fated Sports Direct makeover of St James Park. With the former the club gets something that it might not otherwise have got whereas the latter doesn't help anyone.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 23, 2016, 03:00:00 PM
At the Albion we're a traditional bunch - look at the pin stripes strip furore . Any new owner will need to pander to this side of the club. We have a rich and proud history as well as a richer and prouder future in the modern game (hopefully). Peace always understood this very well and still made a few mistakes in the fan's eyes so we'll need to understand the new guys will likely make a few mistakes along he way too. Provided they listen to fans and keep the 'soul' of the club intact ,  they/ we should be fine.

That's the issue. Lots of people want Peace out. You can say goodbye to tradition when he goes as foreign investors won't care. I hope the 'Peace out' crowd do not start moaning when things change because it's unrealistic to think we will simply improve and not sell naming rights etc at the same time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 23, 2016, 03:06:04 PM
Hopefully we wont I think JP is trying to sell to right people. People who study Anglo-Chinese Trade have said a deal is happening. they just don't know who with. The Club Itself has been suspiciously quiet why not kill all rumours? Going back to the UFC that took 6 months to sell for a lot lot more. 2 weeks before Dailian Wanda were denigning involvement, but, it turns out they were the money part of the consortium. Now I'm not saying it's them. I'm just saying nobody knows who yet

Dalian Wanda group haven't bought the UFC, they bid but lost out to WME-IMG group.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on July 23, 2016, 04:08:36 PM
That's the issue. Lots of people want Peace out. You can say goodbye to tradition when he goes as foreign investors won't care. I hope the 'Peace out' crowd do not start moaning when things change because it's unrealistic to think we will simply improve and not sell naming rights etc at the same time.

The pinstripe home shirt?

I also think a lot of the reason we haven't done naming deals and the like already is because Peace sets his price and won't budge. We had no sponsors on our shirts for 2 years because he wouldn't cave.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 23, 2016, 04:31:37 PM
Dalian Wanda group haven't bought the UFC, they bid but lost out to WME-IMG group.
I was sure Dave Meltzer said they were the money behind WME-IMG because of UFC so badly wanting to break into China. If I'm mistaken though I apologise and retract. Just out of interest, do you take your screenname from Silva?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 23, 2016, 05:00:04 PM
I was sure Dave Meltzer said they were the money behind WME-IMG because of UFC so badly wanting to break into China. If I'm mistaken though I apologise and retract. Just out of interest, do you take your screenname from Silva?

No mate, they lost out to WME-IMG in the "bidding war". They were actively pursuing it though. $4.4 billion isn't a bad return on the $2m that the Fertitta's paid for it in 2000.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 23, 2016, 05:20:34 PM
Rename?

Birds nest with Throstle in it?  :P

We could call it "Soup of The Day" :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 23, 2016, 05:28:37 PM
No mate, they lost out to WME-IMG in the "bidding war". They were actively pursuing it though. $4.4 billion isn't a bad return on the $2m that the Fertitta's paid for it in 2000.

I follow now The Wanda backed bid was $4.2 Billion, so, lost out by £200m as you say not a a bad day at the office for the Fertita's. Think Rogan will stay? He's been there since 12. The SEG era, PPV ban era, Zuffa and the growth. It'll be a shame if he goes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on July 23, 2016, 07:19:38 PM
I hope not.

I understand why you hope it isn't ... But it is an easy way to fudge FFP and inject funds into the club for players and looks legitimate.... Regardless we and traditional fans across the country will still call it the hawthorns just like the still called it st James park in Newcastle
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 23, 2016, 07:28:51 PM
Found this It's an interesting read as to why we are an attractive buy

http://www.policyforum.net/chinas-soccer-spending-spree/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 23, 2016, 08:35:54 PM
I follow now The Wanda backed bid was $4.2 Billion, so, lost out by £200m as you say not a a bad day at the office for the Fertita's. Think Rogan will stay? He's been there since 12. The SEG era, PPV ban era, Zuffa and the growth. It'll be a shame if he goes.

Yeah for sure. Rogan would do that job for free (no joke), they won't want to change a winning formula. White stays on as president also, increasing his 9% stake apparently too. If he had decided to cash in he would have got $360mil for a $180,000 investment. He will carry on running things and has increased his shareholdings in the company.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2016, 09:27:25 PM
Found this It's an interesting read as to why we are an attractive buy

http://www.policyforum.net/chinas-soccer-spending-spree/


At that level I'd say Manchester United were more attractive than WBA. The commentator is already mentioning Liverpool, I'd say we're well out of that League.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieVN on July 24, 2016, 02:03:54 AM
We could call it "Soup of The Day" :(

How about The Noodle Bowl? Or even The Noodle Soup Bowl?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 24, 2016, 09:29:31 AM
'Shan Zha' is chinese for Hawthorns - doesnt sound too bad !  Popular herbal berry in chinese medicine.  The Shan Zha Stadium it is then!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 24, 2016, 10:40:16 AM

At that level I'd say Manchester United were more attractive than WBA. The commentator is already mentioning Liverpool, I'd say we're well out of that League.

I would agree John, if it was pre-Glazer Man utd. Their finances are such a mess now and linked with the Sub-Prime Crash of 2007. If there are any accountants here that can explain PIK (Paid In Kind?) Loans and hedge funds I'd be grateful. Liverpool very well may happen, The thing is with that current American Owner is in Litigation with the previous American Owner that needs to cleared or dropped first
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on July 24, 2016, 12:22:40 PM
Has anyone heard anymore whispers Chinese or otherwise ?Im 69 now, cant take much more of this intrigue.One of my neighbours who never talked about football has suddenly become a dingle.Keeps on about who they are going to buy the managers they are looking at etc.To be honest it seems to have gone very quiet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 24, 2016, 12:45:31 PM
Has anyone heard anymore whispers Chinese or otherwise ?Im 69 now, cant take much more of this intrigue.One of my neighbours who never talked about football has suddenly become a dingle.Keeps on about who they are going to buy the managers they are looking at etc.To be honest it seems to have gone very quiet.

Don't get excited,i'm sure nothing will happen, we go through this ritual every season. We hear we might be bought, we see a list of players who we are "eyeing" and "tracking", then watch them sign for another club.
Just before the start of the season, Peace breaks his silence and says he couldn't come to a compromise and it's business as usual.
We enter the new season with a weaker squad than we finished the last one with, and send August eyeing and tracking players nobody has bought before the season starts.
We then end up making a few panic buys on the last day of the window,usually players who are no better than we already have.
Funny thing is,we all buy into this rubbish and get excited year after year. :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 24, 2016, 12:49:13 PM
Has anyone heard anymore whispers Chinese or otherwise ?Im 69 now, cant take much more of this intrigue.One of my neighbours who never talked about football has suddenly become a dingle.Keeps on about who they are going to buy the managers they are looking at etc.To be honest it seems to have gone very quiet.
   :D Not yet mate But these things take time to do properly. See Vanderlei and I's Discussion on the UFC. Every expert In Anglo-Chinese trade say yes it's likely who to? no one knows yet. Thing with both Vile and Dingles both outgoing owner were either Multi Millionares or Billionaires with money losing albertrosses. Look at the Dings deal the new owners only have to put in £20m over two years! It ain't that great. Peace has done more for Pulis. Its better to get the right deal for the club than a venky's. It wasn't going through the club would have squashed it by now on the OS
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 24, 2016, 12:52:26 PM
Has anyone heard anymore whispers Chinese or otherwise ?Im 69 now, cant take much more of this intrigue.One of my neighbours who never talked about football has suddenly become a dingle.Keeps on about who they are going to buy the managers they are looking at etc.To be honest it seems to have gone very quiet.

There you go son both sides of the same coin  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: parksey1972 on July 24, 2016, 01:12:04 PM
Long time lurker here.

Listened to WM at the start of the week when Dingles were taken over, and figures were quoted £20m to £30m over the next 2 seasons.
The dingle fans were getting excited saying they will buy 5 or 6 players this window, each about £5 or £6m. Lol
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on July 24, 2016, 02:23:05 PM
The way I see it,would JP be able to keep a lid on it.If something was going on surely it would have been leaked.I personally hope an investor takes over ,but if it falls through again it would make me wonder about JPs motives,as some other posters have mentioned.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on July 24, 2016, 02:27:37 PM
The way I see it,would JP be able to keep a lid on it.If something was going on surely it would have been leaked.I personally hope an investor takes over ,but if it falls through again it would make me wonder about JPs motives,as some other posters have mentioned.

There's probably only about 3 people in the Albion who know who the buyer is. I doubt meetings are held in the normal offices and the buyers won't leak as it'll alert other buyers.

Professionals with alot to lose won't be leaking.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 24, 2016, 02:57:20 PM
There's probably only about 3 people in the Albion who know who the buyer is. I doubt meetings are held in the normal offices and the buyers won't leak as it'll alert other buyers.

Professionals with alot to lose won't be leaking.

I would say there's only one person in the Albion who Knows who the buyer is, & that's the person who's selling. There is no need for anyone else to know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 24, 2016, 03:04:18 PM
I would say there's only one person in the Albion who Knows who the buyer is, & that's the person who's selling. There is no need for anyone else to know.
I think you will find there are others within the club who know. That is if it is being sold.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 24, 2016, 03:41:48 PM
I think you will find there are others within the club who know. That is if it is being sold.

Trust me Kev, the sale will have to be very advanced, to the point where it will impact on the football club's executives, before they will know. I've been an executive in a company that acquired other companies, & the deal was done before we got to know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 24, 2016, 04:57:25 PM
There's probably only about 3 people in the Albion who know who the buyer is. I doubt meetings are held in the normal offices and the buyers won't leak as it'll alert other buyers.

Professionals with alot to lose won't be leaking.

I doubt even if the meetings would be held in this country. Hasn't Peace got a place in Dubai? I'm with John in thinking only people in Peace's closest circle knows who they are. The only time I can see it leaking is when it goes to the FA for ratification. The fit and proper test
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bazabaggie73 on July 24, 2016, 05:27:07 PM
The wolves take over didn't leak, there's was done and dusted before anything was announced, will probably be the same as ours if it happens
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on July 24, 2016, 05:53:02 PM
I have been involved in numerous deals and all parties will be working under strict NDA's - only those directly involved will be aware. So that might well in this case exclude everybody other than Peace and the FD (almost certainly need to be involved in the development of the due diligence documentation) plus his lawyers and accountants. Keeping in mind everybody in that group stands to make a lot of money out of the deal then it is no great surprise that we've heard nothing. In fact I think the silence tells us the deal is progressing along nicely. The new buyers will be keen to undertake the work quietly as well - they might well be listed and therefore not keen to share a deal until they are forced to. All of the above is normal and just because its a football club doesn't fundamentally change any of the rules of engagement.

I would imagine the only time fans will get any news is once everything is signed and done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 24, 2016, 05:56:41 PM
I have been involved in numerous deals and all parties will be working under strict NDA's - only those directly involved will be aware. So that might well in this case exclude everybody other than Peace and the FD (almost certainly need to be involved in the development of the due diligence documentation) plus his lawyers and accountants. Keeping in mind everybody in that group stands to make a lot of money out of the deal then it is no great surprise that we've heard nothing. In fact I think the silence tells us the deal is progressing along nicely. The new buyers will be keen to undertake the work quietly as well - they might well be listed and therefore not keen to share a deal until they are forced to. All of the above is normal and just because its a football club doesn't fundamentally change any of the rules of engagement.

I would imagine the only time fans will get any news is once everything is signed and done.
Absolutely, I have dealt with NDA's in the last year for some strange stuff.
I think if they are really clever they would keep peace involved for at least the next season?
To me it feels like we are setting up deals ready to rubber stamp once takeover is done so that the other clubs don't raise each deal by 5 mill, possibly why we ain't that bothered about 2-3 million diff in a Saido deal either,because this time next year rodders :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on July 24, 2016, 06:14:31 PM
I have been involved in numerous deals and all parties will be working under strict NDA's - only those directly involved will be aware. So that might well in this case exclude everybody other than Peace and the FD (almost certainly need to be involved in the development of the due diligence documentation) plus his lawyers and accountants. Keeping in mind everybody in that group stands to make a lot of money out of the deal then it is no great surprise that we've heard nothing. In fact I think the silence tells us the deal is progressing along nicely. The new buyers will be keen to undertake the work quietly as well - they might well be listed and therefore not keen to share a deal until they are forced to. All of the above is normal and just because its a football club doesn't fundamentally change any of the rules of engagement.

I would imagine the only time fans will get any news is once everything is signed and done.
That sounds a lot more plausible than "Only Peace knows about it" They would keep it very tight.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 24, 2016, 06:18:17 PM
I'm fairly sure that something is happening behind the scenes but no sale is guaranteed. It could be the same situation as last year the difference being the club have kept quiet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 24, 2016, 06:53:34 PM
That sounds a lot more plausible than "Only Peace knows about it" They would keep it very tight.

"Only Peace know's about it" there is no need for anybody else to be involved until the deal is complete. It's limited to a transfer of ownership of JP's shares, so why would anyone else need to be involved? Even if a potential new owner was to authorise additional spending on players, they could do that through JP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on July 24, 2016, 07:26:57 PM
"Only Peace know's about it" there is no need for anybody else to be involved until the deal is complete. It's limited to a transfer of ownership of JP's shares, so why would anyone else need to be involved? Even if a potential new owner was to authorise additional spending on players, they could do that through JP.

It is fanciful to think a deal of this size would simply be Peace plus advisors. I cannot imagine any organisation paying that much money without a very significant due-diligence process. At the very least that would involve some detailed knowledge of previous years financials plus commercials arrangement including contracts, player dealings, Facilities, HR etc. I would imagine that a small cohort of people from the club must be involved - it might be FD plus HR. Having bought and sold 24 businesses in the last four years I have yet to experience one where the owner has been able to completely exclude key members of staff. Once JP gets through legals its possible he would work on the SPA on his own with his legal advisors - and it is also possible that the buyers used third parties like Deloittes for the DD with his internal team.That said they'd still be aware it was been sold - even if they didn't have any idea who the buyer was.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on July 24, 2016, 07:35:55 PM
"Only Peace know's about it" there is no need for anybody else to be involved until the deal is complete. It's limited to a transfer of ownership of JP's shares, so why would anyone else need to be involved? Even if a potential new owner was to authorise additional spending on players, they could do that through JP.
I don't think so John. In a Small Med. Maybe  but not one of the size of WBA and the holdings that go with it. The previous post by RogerBadoo makes far more sense.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 24, 2016, 08:09:54 PM
There's probably only about 3 people in the Albion who know who the buyer is. I doubt meetings are held in the normal offices and the buyers won't leak as it'll alert other buyers.

Professionals with alot to lose won't be leaking.

Yes i would agree with that. These deals are usually done in a hotel. The Chinese representative will book in under the name Mr Smith, and Jeremy wearing a blonde wig will check in as Mrs Smith
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 24, 2016, 08:30:00 PM
It is fanciful to think a deal of this size would simply be Peace plus advisors. I cannot imagine any organisation paying that much money without a very significant due-diligence process. At the very least that would involve some detailed knowledge of previous years financials plus commercials arrangement including contracts, player dealings, Facilities, HR etc. I would imagine that a small cohort of people from the club must be involved - it might be FD plus HR. Having bought and sold 24 businesses in the last four years I have yet to experience one where the owner has been able to completely exclude key members of staff. Once JP gets through legals its possible he would work on the SPA on his own with his legal advisors - and it is also possible that the buyers used third parties like Deloittes for the DD with his internal team.That said they'd still be aware it was been sold - even if they didn't have any idea who the buyer was.

The buying & selling of a football club is a lot simpler than buying any other business. You just need a head coach to motivate & maximise the assets & a financial/legal exec to control budgets. In our case we've also got a development exec to develop home grown assets. With the exception of the technical side of the business JP is allegedly pretty "hands on". Can't see why he would need to involve anybody else.
I can see why HR would be a big issue in a "normal business", especially things like design, manufacturing, marketing & sales, financial control, & strategic planning etc, but football's a lot simpler than that.
Having said that, I could see that JP might want to include Richard Garlick, Mark Jenkins, Nick Hammond & Tony Pulis in the latter stages, as a matter of courtesy.


Does anyone know what's for sale? According to the Official site West Bromwich Albion football club is owned by West Bromwich Albion Holdings which in turn is a member of the West Bromwich Albion Group. So if it's just West Bromwich Albion Football Club that's for sale, it's entirely feasible that JP is the only one with intimate knowledge of the progress of the sale, if indeed, a sale is actually taking place.

Just as a matter of interest, do you think it's likely to be sold to Chinese?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 25, 2016, 08:06:25 AM
Just to get some of you going ape for a while:

https://twitter.com/dalianwanda/status/757460815565852672 (https://twitter.com/dalianwanda/status/757460815565852672)

'Wanda has yet another announcement to make. Look for news Tues. 11 a.m. China. Press event: Sofitel. 7F, Beijing.'
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 25, 2016, 08:20:08 AM
Mmmm 11am China is 4 am in UK so set your alarms lads for tomorrow morning if you really think this could be the news we are waiting for!  - but there again its too good to be true surely!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2016, 08:33:59 AM
Just to get some of you going ape for a while:

https://twitter.com/dalianwanda/status/757460815565852672 (https://twitter.com/dalianwanda/status/757460815565852672)

'Wanda has yet another announcement to make. Look for news Tues. 11 a.m. China. Press event: Sofitel. 7F, Beijing.'


Got to be headlines in Birmingham Mail  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on July 25, 2016, 08:34:51 AM
The tweet

Wanda has yet another announcement to make. Look for news Tues. 11 a.m. China. Press event: Sofitel. 7F, Beijing.

Has pictures of Athetico Madrid and a Marathon runner next to it, so it's surely a sports acquisition?

Please let this happen. There's no way they'd buy us to let us flounder...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2016, 08:49:25 AM
The tweet

Wanda has yet another announcement to make. Look for news Tues. 11 a.m. China. Press event: Sofitel. 7F, Beijing.

Has pictures of Athetico Madrid and a Marathon runner next to it, so it's surely a sports acquisition?

Please let this happen. There's no way they'd buy us to let us flounder...

Perhaps they're buying Nike & Addidas?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 25, 2016, 08:53:19 AM
Mmmm 11am China is 4 am in UK so set your alarms lads for tomorrow morning if you really think this could be the news we are waiting for!  - but there again its too good to be true surely!

I ay getting up at 4.00am cause it cor be true!! can it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2016, 09:07:16 AM
I've not really took a great deal of notice of this "Wanda Group" rumour , because I'm still not convinced it's going to be Chinese, but I've just had a look at their Twitter page.

This is what they said recently

Quote
Wanda Group ‏@DalianWanda  Jul 20
Wanda is building the world’s biggest film, tourism, sports companies... and more.

They are also quoted as being one of the world's top 500 companies.

Just can't see them being interested in WBA. Like it or not, there was a higher profile brand just down the road, they could have had for a lot less earlier this year.. Think they've got bigger fish to fry than us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 25, 2016, 09:07:34 AM
Just to get some of you going ape for a while:

https://twitter.com/dalianwanda/status/757460815565852672 (https://twitter.com/dalianwanda/status/757460815565852672)

'Wanda has yet another announcement to make. Look for news Tues. 11 a.m. China. Press event: Sofitel. 7F, Beijing.'
Do you think the people "going ape" will be disappointed then? I know you said earlier that it definitely wasn't Wanda involved in the takeover. Is this a definite red herring?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2016, 09:20:56 AM
If it is going to be Chinese, trace Watford's owner back to Granada & beyond. They would be a more likely candidate
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Cantello on July 25, 2016, 09:24:18 AM
Doubtful on this. Can't help feeling they would announce a purchase of a UK company later in the day so as to make it a reasonable hour for news in the UK, wouldn't they?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on July 25, 2016, 09:26:01 AM
If it is going to be Chinese, trace Watford's owner back to Granada & beyond. They would be a more likely candidate
The family who own Watford aren't a likely candidate to buy us as you can't own more than one club in the same country because of the conflict of interest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 25, 2016, 09:58:37 AM
As I am over in that part of the world tomorrow looks like I will be one of the first Baggie to find out if it is Wandarful news!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: phbaggies on July 25, 2016, 09:59:56 AM
They were in advanced talks to sign Paramount pictures, so I wouldn't be setting any alarm clocks boys!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2016, 10:04:46 AM
The family who own Watford aren't a likely candidate to buy us as you can't own more than one club in the same country because of the conflict of interest.

But they did own Granada, if you google Granada, you will see who owns them now. Have I got to do all the work round here? :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 25, 2016, 10:06:26 AM
Do you think the people "going ape" will be disappointed then? I know you said earlier that it definitely wasn't Wanda involved in the takeover. Is this a definite red herring?

I don't KNOW it's not them, I just know what our Twitter contingent is like going crazy over scraps of info being misinterpreted. I wouldn't say 'red herring' as Wanda can do what they like business wise - but the timing of their announcement and the fact 'the richest man in China is signing WBA' has lingered for a year makes me think not.

But to be honest, this announcement looks sports related with those photos - what do I know. Don't hold your breath.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 25, 2016, 10:07:00 AM
But they did own Granada, if you google Granada, you will see who owns them now. Have I got to do all the work round here? :)
John can you put us all out of our misery and find out if we am being sold or not then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: parksey1972 on July 25, 2016, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: PsalmXXIII

But to be honest, this announcement looks sports related with those photos - what do I know. Don't hold your breath.
[/quote

May not be sports related. Check out thier FaceBook page, they changed their cover/background to that image a few weeks ago. About the same time as they made a deal with Adidas to promote football in China. Also agreed a deal with FIFA to start a 4 team international tourniment in Chinia.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 25, 2016, 10:15:24 AM
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/07/25/west-brom-takeover-could-be-close/



West Brom takeover could be close

West Brom boss Tony Pulis has hinted that a takeover at the club could come soon.


Pulis, who has one year left on his deal, intimated that he’s unsure who the owner will be come the start of the season.

When asked if he’d spoken to the chairman about his contract, he said: “No, I’ve stayed away from it.

“Obviously there’s lots of stuff going on at the football club that I don’t want to talk about.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on July 25, 2016, 10:17:52 AM
Have just seen a link to a Chinese business page (in english) and Wanda are expected to announce a purchase of a cinema/films group.

The pictures next the the auuoncement don't make any sense if thaat's the case?!

but dial back the excitment lads...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 25, 2016, 10:19:47 AM
I can't see the Wanda announcement being anything to do with them buying Albion. Wanda are making their announcement in Beijing. If it was JP selling the Club he would surely want to make the announcement himself - in England.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 25, 2016, 10:24:12 AM
Have just seen a link to a Chinese business page (in english) and Wanda are expected to announce a purchase of a cinema/films group.

The pictures next the the auuoncement don't make any sense if thaat's the case?!

but dial back the excitment lads...

I think the timing of the announcement with the UK wouldn't have made any sense also if it related to us. Still reckon that any announcement of a takeover, whoever it is and if it happens, won't be until early August.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 25, 2016, 10:31:28 AM
The announcement won't be us I'm pretty sure of that

As much as I want it to be I cant see it being the Wanda Group who buy us at all
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on July 25, 2016, 10:37:08 AM
Surely if they were purchasing us, they would want the announcement to hit peak time when people in this country would see the news, not at 4am?

Im pretty sure they are purchasing Paramount Pictures.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 25, 2016, 10:47:15 AM
Surely if they were purchasing us, they would want the announcement to hit peak time when people in this country would see the news, not at 4am?

Im pretty sure they are purchasing Paramount Pictures.
There again would they worry about that - if they were so courtious about waiting for a time of say 11 am UK time, that would be 6 pm over there which would make even less sense!

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 25, 2016, 11:07:05 AM
Surely if they were purchasing us, they would want the announcement to hit peak time when people in this country would see the news, not at 4am?

Im pretty sure they are purchasing Paramount Pictures.
Agree.
Would love it to be us, but very much doubt it.
Looks like something is close though, first time Pulis has touched on the subject.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2016, 11:12:35 AM
John can you put us all out of our misery and find out if we am being sold or not then.

We're available for sale Kev, the rest is pure speculation. The Granada thing takes you to a Chinese Businessman who owns them & Minnesota Timberwolves in the NBA. Not saying it's him either, just that his profile is more likely to fit with us, than the Wanda Group.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2016, 11:20:19 AM
Surely if they were purchasing us, they would want the announcement to hit peak time when people in this country would see the news, not at 4am?

Im pretty sure they are purchasing Paramount Pictures.


Paramount Pictures or WBA? decisions decisions
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 25, 2016, 11:25:42 AM
It appears to me alot of people want a following on here and a fair few prepared to listen to anyone.

Tours of the internet now, just wait and see, I know nothing other than JP to lose his golden goose someone is going to have to make him a very rich man.
 
Your waiting for nothing, business men want to make money, have no sentiment, Ebeneezer at his best.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 25, 2016, 11:50:46 AM

Paramount Pictures or WBA? decisions decisions


thats a dificult decision that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 25, 2016, 12:00:58 PM
Surely the timing of an announcement would be dictated by the Chinese stock market, whoever / whatever they are buying!

in the UK these things are usually confirmed to the markets at 08:00 I think
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 25, 2016, 12:07:44 PM
Knew this would happen. I did warn you there was going to be another silly fan meltdown.

Let's move on from that ridiculous tweet that is 99.9% definitely not Albion related.
Where's the meltdown?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 25, 2016, 12:17:15 PM
Alot of fans are going to be very dissapointed at 4 AM tomorrow morning. I stand by what i said a few days ago. I expect the announcement to be early August. Its all but complete now but my understanding is its another Asia based party not Wanda group.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 25, 2016, 12:19:51 PM
I'm not particularly bothered about a takeover to be honest.

If we do then great, if not, life goes on.

I'd hope any new owners intentions are for the right reasons and not a vanity trip but I'm not going to get worked up on something I have no influence over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 25, 2016, 12:26:08 PM
Where's the meltdown?


Londons stock exchange has closed down
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 25, 2016, 12:47:08 PM
Surely if they were purchasing us, they would want the announcement to hit peak time when people in this country would see the news, not at 4am?

Im pretty sure they are purchasing Paramount Pictures.

I'd be pretty confident that is the case.

Sorry to drift away from the Albion. Paramount are based in California and controlled by Viacom that is listed on the New York market and the company have been wanting to sell a stake for a while now. The timing in China would coincide with a perfect early evening time in California and would be announced when the stock market in the US is closed which is the normal practice.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 25, 2016, 12:51:47 PM
Hey 38, can you tell us if the Proposed new owner is Chinese,an individual or a group/consortium?
I did ask before but you didn't respond,dont worry if you can't tell us,but it would be nice to have a little more definitive info.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 25, 2016, 12:53:59 PM
Alot of fans are going to be very dissapointed at 4 AM tomorrow morning. I stand by what i said a few days ago. I expect the announcement to be early August. Its all but complete now but my understanding is its another Asia based party not Wanda group.
That's a damn shame, I was hoping they would rename the ground the Wandaland Zoo! and sign Fellaini :)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 25, 2016, 12:59:56 PM
Hey 38, can you tell us if the Proposed new owner is Chinese,an individual or a group/consortium?
I did ask before but you didn't respond,dont worry if you can't tell us,but it would be nice to have a little more definitive info.
i just want to know if they have alot of money haha
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 25, 2016, 01:04:43 PM
That's a damn shame, I was hoping they would rename the ground the Wandaland Zoo! and sign Fellaini :)

lol! I used to love watching that!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on July 25, 2016, 01:20:11 PM
I'd be pretty confident that is the case.

Sorry to drift away from the Albion. Paramount are based in California and controlled by Viacom that is listed on the New York market and the company have been wanting to sell a stake for a while now. The timing in China would coincide with a perfect early evening time in California and would be announced when the stock market in the US is closed which is the normal practice.

If announcing it at 4am UK time rules out us then why would they announce Paramount at 8pm LA time or 11pm New York time?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: orville on July 25, 2016, 01:26:33 PM
8pm would be prime time viewing in LA, and as to be done when stock market where the company being purchased stocks are traded is closed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 25, 2016, 01:36:11 PM
8pm would be prime time viewing in LA, and as to be done when stock market where the company being purchased stocks are traded is closed

If a deal with Paramount is known to be close, wouldn't an announcement now breach rules of some sort, baring in mind it could affect the market and we still have a number of hours trading? 

If this is the case, surely it would make more sense for it to be a purchase of a business that isnt floated, and one that is relatively insignificant to the buyer. For instance, a 40bn dollar company adding a 200m dollar football club to its already vast portfolio.


For the record, I don't think it will be anything to do with WBA or Paramount.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 25, 2016, 01:36:47 PM
can we have a drum roll at 3.58 am please :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 25, 2016, 01:58:38 PM
lol! I used to love watching that!
Glad someone else is old enough to get it!  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on July 25, 2016, 03:19:13 PM
They are not taking over us

It will be a completely different company
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 25, 2016, 03:31:08 PM
Glad someone else is old enough to get it!  ;)
yeah we stay home every night, never quarrel or fight, aww we don't even bite!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 25, 2016, 06:03:32 PM
Sold out to Randy Lerner?   :o :'(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 25, 2016, 06:15:44 PM
Sold out to Randy Lerner?   :o :'(
Don't even joke about that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 25, 2016, 08:45:15 PM
Anyone staying up until 2am to listen to the Wanda announcement? My advice, don't lose your beauty sleep ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 25, 2016, 09:02:10 PM
Anyone staying up until 2am to listen to the Wanda announcement? My advice, don't lose your beauty sleep ;D ;D ;D
no chance cant see why any albion fan would
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 25, 2016, 09:02:49 PM
Anyone staying up until 2am to listen to the Wanda announcement? My advice, don't lose your beauty sleep ;D ;D ;D

Thought it was 4am uk time
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 25, 2016, 09:06:29 PM
Apologies, it is 4am
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 25, 2016, 09:26:18 PM
Apologies, it is 4am
I'm an Insomniac Sadly my mobile phone pooh can't access the internet I'm hoping it's a promise they're not not going to make anymore Transforomers movies  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 25, 2016, 09:28:32 PM
lol! I used to love watching that!
Will we be rich enough to afford the Invivible Motorbike? ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 25, 2016, 09:30:14 PM
Oddly, I'm getting up for work at 3am, not sure I shall be checking any early morning business news! ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 25, 2016, 09:33:26 PM
Hey guys don't bother checking at 4am it won't be anything to do with WBA.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on July 25, 2016, 09:47:17 PM
This is all getting very exciting isn't it?! On one hand its entirety feasable that we could well be close to a takeover - especially when one considers the current financial benefits UK based commodities/business offer, also adding obvious currency factors. This all said....why the ''Wanda Group'? Is it because someone 'farted' their name 12/18 months ago, is it because we have such an over subcribed pool of lazy journalism it's sadly the nature of common social media and overbearing regurgitation?  Is it that we have a hardcore of wannabe ITK's twinned with a few 'Think they Knows' that has led this little gem to become slightly 'over erect'?! Either way the facts should/and most likely are dictated by logic......whether that leads us to 'Wanda' where this story came from, or watch unfold an entirely new proposition - either way, the next week or so will reveal all!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 25, 2016, 09:51:36 PM
Can anyone put a definitive date on when last year JP pulled the plug on the exclusivity option (can't remember the correct term at this time of night - hic!)
Thanks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 25, 2016, 10:03:51 PM
Can anyone put a definitive date on when last year JP pulled the plug on the exclusivity option (can't remember the correct term at this time of night - hic!)
Thanks
24th july it was
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on July 25, 2016, 10:09:58 PM
24th july it was

2 weeks before the first game. So 29th July this year would be the equivalent date this year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mifos on July 25, 2016, 10:46:19 PM
This is all getting very exciting isn't it?! On one hand its entirety feasable that we could well be close to a takeover - especially when one considers the current financial benefits UK based commodities/business offer, also adding obvious currency factors. This all said....why the ''Wanda Group'? Is it because someone 'farted' their name 12/18 months ago, is it because we have such an over subcribed pool of lazy journalism it's sadly the nature of common social media and overbearing regurgitation?  Is it that we have a hardcore of wannabe ITK's twinned with a few 'Think they Knows' that has led this little gem to become slightly 'over erect'?! Either way the facts should/and most likely are dictated by logic......whether that leads us to 'Wanda' where this story came from, or watch unfold an entirely new proposition - either way, the next week or so will reveal all!

Steve tappin on wm mentioned Wanda. He seemed to know his stuff, but baggie38 says not, I'm inclined to believe baggie38s inside knowledge
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 25, 2016, 10:58:04 PM
I am usually laid back about news not coming out of the club but this is starting to get my back up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 26, 2016, 12:02:00 AM
I see a few people plan on setting a alarm for 4AM on social media. I have to say I'm tempted to also but not because of what Wanda have to say but because I want to watch and laugh at the meltdown that breaks out amongst the Muppets on Twitter
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 26, 2016, 12:16:37 AM
I see a few people plan on setting a alarm for 4AM on social media. I have to say I'm tempted to also but not because of what Wanda have to say but because I want to watch and laugh at the meltdown that breaks out amongst the Muppets on Twitter
.   If you're right it will be a shame , need something to happen , but if you are wrong you better go into to hiding ,especially calling them muppets .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 26, 2016, 12:35:16 AM
.   If you're right it will be a shame , need something to happen , but if you are wrong you better go into to hiding ,especially calling them muppets .

I call them Muppets simply because a lot of them seem to think we can compete for any player in world football and make stupid comments but hey I suppose that's social media for you...anyway back on topic I'd love to be wrong I really would because Wanda group seem like a serious force in the market but I can see no way unless they are somehow connected to the party its all agreed with being them sorry but I just wouldn't get one's hopes up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on July 26, 2016, 12:58:47 AM
What i actively hope it isn't is just a hedge fund, wanting to buy it as an asset and then move on. No passion, no real fandom, just business.

If we were brought by someone who is doing it as a show off piece, that'll mean at least they will endeavour to make sure we never go down adn hopefully will push for us to step up to the next level (8th to 12th as the norm), that way cups are a realistic shout.

We shall see.

What I will say in regards to Wanda, is I doubt it's them buying us, but their announcement page having a football team on was misleading. Probably deliberately so on their behalf?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 26, 2016, 03:37:49 AM
Wanda announcement postponed.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: swad35 on July 26, 2016, 04:47:37 AM
I really hope no one got up for that. Postponed until further notice due to "VIP travel delays".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbertaBaggie on July 26, 2016, 05:00:53 AM
Peace decided to ask for a few more million!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 26, 2016, 07:31:29 AM
Peace decided to ask for a few more million!

Exactly my thought - with the word 'again' at the end!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 26, 2016, 07:35:47 AM
I can see it now.....we wont buy any players due to the ongoing takeover negotiations and then we wont be sold by transfer deadline day.....and then on deadline day we will panic buy rubbish.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on July 26, 2016, 07:38:14 AM
I can see it now.....we wont buy any players due to the ongoing takeover negotiations and then we wont be sold by transfer deadline day.....and then on deadline day we will panic buy rubbish.
You would hope they are working behind the scenes to avoid this situation, that or Hammond might have well not joined the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 26, 2016, 07:39:11 AM
Chill out everyone, it sounded like it was a Paramount Pictures thing anyway. Just see what happens and try not to let it take up your summer!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 26, 2016, 07:41:19 AM
I wonder if the real buyers are getting a bit inebriated off with all the Wanda spin. A few games being played
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 26, 2016, 08:04:23 AM
Don't expect too much then you won't be disappointed  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 26, 2016, 08:08:25 AM
Price has to be issue with potential buyers or we'd be sold long ago, that's jp for you thinking of number one
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Cantello on July 26, 2016, 08:39:51 AM
Price has to be issue with potential buyers or we'd be sold long ago, that's jp for you thinking of number one

And wouldn't you?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 26, 2016, 08:44:11 AM
I really hope no one got up for that. Postponed until further notice due to "VIP travel delays".
Messi stuck in traffic?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: nick_wba on July 26, 2016, 08:45:53 AM
Price has to be issue with potential buyers or we'd be sold long ago, that's jp for you thinking of number one

Baffles me that you and a lot of others think a £150-200mil acquisition should be as quick and easy as buying a pint in your local
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: parksey1972 on July 26, 2016, 08:46:12 AM
Paramount!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 26, 2016, 09:06:09 AM
Price has to be issue with potential buyers or we'd be sold long ago, that's jp for you thinking of number one

How do you know price is an issue? What's that based on?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 26, 2016, 09:07:30 AM
Totally agree Nick especially when JP will be determined to find the right buyer. People may have their views on him but he built the club up, got Premier League stability and he will want the right people to take it forward
That coupled with the complexity of up to a £200m sale and foreign buyers
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: nick_wba on July 26, 2016, 09:09:41 AM
Unless this has already been mentioned, I expect the announcement will probably be something to do with this?

http://shanghaiist.com/2016/07/10/wang_jianlin_european_football_league.php

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 26, 2016, 10:09:34 AM
Price has to be issue with potential buyers or we'd be sold long ago, that's jp for you thinking of number one

Couldn't be anymore further than the truth. The price was agreed a long time ago at 200 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 26, 2016, 10:13:14 AM
Couldn't be anymore further than the truth. The price was agreed a long time ago at 200 million.
Any idea what the hold up is then if the price has been agreed?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 26, 2016, 10:16:46 AM
Any idea what the hold up is then if the price has been agreed?

Accountants / solicitors - due diligence, there are ALWAYS delays, its in everyones interest (except the buyers / sellers) just like buying a house.
Delays = costs = more money for the parasites.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 26, 2016, 10:31:18 AM
Accountants / solicitors - due diligence, there are ALWAYS delays, its in everyones interest (except the buyers / sellers) just like buying a house.
Delays = costs = more money for the parasites.

Exactly this it's like selling a house just 10 times bigger a s longer process. My mate who is reliable still thinks it will be early August its confirmed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tucka9 on July 26, 2016, 10:41:41 AM
I heard a few whispers can't really say there reliable but I'm hearing that it's that guy who was supposed to buy the wolves who's involved, Robin Li. Any truth in his 38?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 26, 2016, 10:43:54 AM
Couldn't be anymore further than the truth. The price was agreed a long time ago at 200 million.
so if price is agreed then solicitors and accountants should of already been shown the assets and debts of club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 26, 2016, 10:58:20 AM
starting to get embarrassing when you look at wanda groups twitter page albions fans begging for a takeover etc
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 26, 2016, 11:00:22 AM
starting to get embarrassing when you look at wanda groups twitter page albions fans begging for a takeover etc


I have got me Prayer mat out and thats it really
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on July 26, 2016, 11:03:33 AM
starting to get embarrassing when you look at wanda groups twitter page albions fans begging for a takeover etc

You almost feel as if the new owners (whoever they may be) will be on to a losing battle with some supporters (if its not the Wanda Group) as they wont be deemed rich enough  ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 26, 2016, 11:10:50 AM
You almost feel as if the new owners (whoever they may be) will be on to a losing battle with some supporters (if its not the Wanda Group) as they wont be deemed rich enough  ???

Not for me. They are surely going to be a lot richer than JP and hopefully show some ambition and have shallower pockets.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 26, 2016, 11:23:51 AM
Unless this has already been mentioned, I expect the announcement will probably be something to do with this?

http://shanghaiist.com/2016/07/10/wang_jianlin_european_football_league.php



I think you may well be correct - Wanda is so rich Albion would be too chicken-feed for him!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 26, 2016, 11:25:11 AM
surely Mr Janlin has a soft spot for us :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 26, 2016, 11:27:59 AM
If its a concortium from China maybe 3 or 4 parties, a lot of checks to carried out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 26, 2016, 11:28:09 AM
I think you may well be correct - Wanda is so rich Albion would be too chicken-feed for him!

Wanda have bigger fish to fry!  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 26, 2016, 11:30:08 AM
Any idea what the hold up is then if the price has been agreed?

It took us 18 months to sign Matt Phillips. The club don't do things quickly.  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on July 26, 2016, 11:33:06 AM
I also hope if we do have new owners they dont come out the way the Wolves new owners have and declared how much they are going to spend.

Surely declaring your budget to your rivals just basically allows teams to increase the price for the players wanted?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 26, 2016, 11:35:43 AM
i cant see any of our rivals shaking in their shoes, noones talking about this potential takeover of ours
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 26, 2016, 11:48:15 AM
I also hope if we do have new owners they dont come out the way the Wolves new owners have and declared how much they are going to spend.

Surely declaring your budget to your rivals just basically allows teams to increase the price for the players wanted?

Actually I think the Wolves owners (who are pretty loaded) are being very sly. "There is £20-30m over the next two years." That is pretty average top half of the Champ standards so clubs unlikely to try and hike prices too high at risk of scaring Wolves off.

But I agree there's actually no need for any of us fans to know anything figures connected to the transfer budget. Especially with us Baggies it will just cause a load of disagreement.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 26, 2016, 11:49:31 AM
i cant see any of our rivals shaking in their shoes, noones talking about this potential takeover of ours
Mate of mine stayed up till 4 so I asked him for an update, mumbled something about Jack pooh. New name in the mix, not sure how much he's worth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tucka9 on July 26, 2016, 11:57:06 AM
I just think it's strange that a company the size of wanda would go out there way to tweet a couple of Albion fans back reassuring them when they hardly ever tweet anyone?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 26, 2016, 11:58:31 AM
starting to get embarrassing when you look at wanda groups twitter page albions fans begging for a takeover etc
Dingle and vile fans must be laughing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 26, 2016, 11:58:53 AM
I just think it's strange that a company the size of wanda would go out there way to tweet a couple of Albion fans back reassuring them when they hardly ever tweet anyone?


i aint got a scoby because i dont do tweeting but are or were they official wanda tweetings
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 26, 2016, 12:10:29 PM
Dingle and vile fans must be laughing.
and we care?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 26, 2016, 12:11:59 PM
Dingle and vile fans must be laughing.

Cant hear them all the way up here
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 26, 2016, 12:14:10 PM
Dingle and vile fans must be laughing.
Do we care about them scum? NOOOOOOOO
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 26, 2016, 12:17:50 PM
Dingle and vile fans must be laughing.
Yes but it's Championship laughter which is always tinged with a touch of sadness and a smattering of inadequacy.
Just retort with a superior sneer. Should do the trick.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 26, 2016, 12:27:51 PM
Dingle and vile fans must be laughing.

I bet they're not.
If true we are being sold for £200m. That puts us as more valuable than the dingles and the unwashed added together
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LoxleyBaggie on July 26, 2016, 12:29:37 PM
Any idea what the hold up is then if the price has been agreed?

Maybe Peace is still trying to explain John Trewick's quip in 1978.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 26, 2016, 01:00:28 PM
Maybe Peace is still trying to explain John Trewick's quip in 1978.
Nice one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tucka9 on July 26, 2016, 01:04:30 PM

i aint got a scoby because i dont do tweeting but are or were they official wanda tweetings
Yes it was there verified official Twitter page which replied saying they would let people know if they choose to take over west brom, then they reassured one fan it wasn't what they thought the announcement was about.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 26, 2016, 01:18:56 PM
Nice one.

Is that why we didn't have a pre-season tour to Mexico?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 26, 2016, 02:00:54 PM
Has anyone just asked the club if we are being taken over?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on July 26, 2016, 02:11:37 PM
I must admit it does seem odd that wanda's Twitter account have responded to west brom fans twice , as they don't seem to reply to people often
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 26, 2016, 02:28:50 PM
Bet JP would not reply, other than he is looking for investment into his own back pocket, sorry for the club.

JP will be concentrating on how to get his share out with minimum tax implications.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 26, 2016, 02:49:39 PM
Bet JP would not reply, other than he is looking for investment into his own back pocket, sorry for the club.

JP will be concentrating on how to get his share out with minimum tax implications.

Wouldn't everyone do the same? I know I would! Set up for life and plenty generations, I don't blame him one bit.

Not as if he hasn't done a cracking job while he has been in charge.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 26, 2016, 03:01:58 PM
He is a very shrewd man and yes I admire for that.

Is he an Albion fan we will see if he turns up after he has his money, on a Saturday afternoon.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 26, 2016, 03:06:05 PM
Well, it's embarrassing to see the reactions of some of our fans on Twitter, desperation doesn't even come close, but I have to say, all of you who are dismissing Dalian Wanda as the buyer are nearly as bad. NOBODY knows what's going on outside the negotiations and the fact that nobody has come out and distances themselves from a takeover (WBA or Wanda), should be very much an indicator that they could well be the buyers. They fit the profile, and seem to be happy to interact with the fans. I don't see why they would do this unless 1) They are trolling our supporters for a laugh or 2) They are taking us over and this is PR to get our supporters to warm to the potential new owners. 2+2=5 and all that, I know, but something is happening, we have history with Wang Jianlin and Dalian Wanda are actively buying up massive corporations like they are ingredients in a 10 penny mixup. Regardless whether they buy us or not, I'm finding the drama entertaining/cringeworthy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 26, 2016, 03:07:22 PM
I still think, if this is going to happen, it's got a very "left field" feel about it. Probably not what we're expecting at all. I've heard Theresa May has used WBA as a negotiating tool with Angel Merkel in getting tarrif free cars into Germany. The Hawthorns will be re-named as the Allianz Hawthorns
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 26, 2016, 03:26:48 PM
Well, it's embarrassing to see the reactions of some of our fans on Twitter, desperation doesn't even come close, but I have to say, all of you who are dismissing Dalian Wanda as the buyer are nearly as bad. NOBODY knows what's going on outside the negotiations and the fact that nobody has come out and distances themselves from a takeover (WBA or Wanda), should be very much an indicator that they could well be the buyers. They fit the profile, and seem to be happy to interact with the fans. I don't see why they would do this unless 1) They are trolling our supporters for a laugh or 2) They are taking us over and this is PR to get our supporters to warm to the potential new owners. 2+2=5 and all that, I know, but something is happening, we have history with Wang Jianlin and Dalian Wanda are actively buying up massive corporations like they are ingredients in a 10 penny mixup. Regardless whether they buy us or not, I'm finding the drama entertaining/cringeworthy.

No solid evidence it is Wanda. Numerous 'experts' saying they're not the name they've heard. That's what us dismissing the rumours mostly base it on. More points to it not being 'the richest man in China who someone made up as a joke last summer' than does.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 26, 2016, 03:43:13 PM
Well, it's embarrassing to see the reactions of some of our fans on Twitter, desperation doesn't even come close, but I have to say, all of you who are dismissing Dalian Wanda as the buyer are nearly as bad. NOBODY knows what's going on outside the negotiations and the fact that nobody has come out and distances themselves from a takeover (WBA or Wanda), should be very much an indicator that they could well be the buyers. They fit the profile, and seem to be happy to interact with the fans. I don't see why they would do this unless 1) They are trolling our supporters for a laugh or 2) They are taking us over and this is PR to get our supporters to warm to the potential new owners. 2+2=5 and all that, I know, but something is happening, we have history with Wang Jianlin and Dalian Wanda are actively buying up massive corporations like they are ingredients in a 10 penny mixup. Regardless whether they buy us or not, I'm finding the drama entertaining/cringeworthy.
Exactly. It's obvious that we are not going to know until the ink is dry on the paperwork, so all we have is speculation. The only thing that seems pretty certain is that we will be sold this time around so why not get excited? Most probably be someone we never heard of, let alone the richest bloke in China, doesn't mean we can't dream a little.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 26, 2016, 03:53:59 PM
Exactly. It's obvious that we are not going to know until the ink is dry on the paperwork, so all we have is speculation. The only thing that seems pretty certain is that we will be sold this time around so why not get excited? Most probably be someone we never heard of, let alone the richest bloke in China, doesn't mean we can't dream a little.

Nothing wrong with dreaming generally, however nightmares and hysteria are out :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boing_boing68 on July 26, 2016, 04:02:26 PM
Even if it was them, why would a super rich Chinese bloke tweet a few Albion fans, they probably don't even know they have a twitter page
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 26, 2016, 04:15:42 PM
No solid evidence it is Wanda. Numerous 'experts' saying they're not the name they've heard. That's what us dismissing the rumours mostly base it on. More points to it not being 'the richest man in China who someone made up as a joke last summer' than does.

yet the one expert who knows these people and the inner circle of these chinese businessmen says it is Wang Jianlin

Im still unconvinced myself but the rumours are there and wont go away
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 26, 2016, 05:12:50 PM
yet the one expert who knows these people and the inner circle of these chinese businessmen says it is Wang Jianlin

Im still unconvinced myself but the rumours are there and wont go away

Was that the guy on WM? If so he didn't actually say it was Wang Jianlin in that interview.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 26, 2016, 05:17:35 PM
Not followed a great deal of all this as I am only particularly interested when something has happened as opposed to all the rumours, but if it is going to happen, it has to happen in the next few days so we have time to actually invest in the squad prior to the end of the window as opposed to panic buying in the last week of it.

I worry now that the start of the season will come and Pulis will walk out due to the lack of investment leaving a threadbare squad and no manager come the first game of the season.

I am as anti Pulis as anyone, but with the squad we will likely have come the start of the season, we are going to need him in place purely to keep us in the league before we can actually make the most of the potential investment next summer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 26, 2016, 05:21:51 PM
Not followed a great deal of all this as I am only particularly interested when something has happened as opposed to all the rumours, but if it is going to happen, it has to happen in the next few days so we have time to actually invest in the squad prior to the end of the window as opposed to panic buying in the last week of it.

I worry now that the start of the season will come and Pulis will walk out due to the lack of investment leaving a threadbare squad and no manager come the first game of the season.

I am as anti Pulis as anyone, but with the squad we will likely have come the start of the season, we are going to need him in place purely to keep us in the league before we can actually make the most of the potential investment next summer.

Can you be both? Can you be anti a guy who we 'need' to stay in the league? You might not like his style of football but from what you've said, the team isn't good enough without him in charge, in which case why would you want him gone? You want us to get relegated? If the team is that bad that they'd not stay up with someone else in charge, why the Pulis hate?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 26, 2016, 05:30:51 PM
Can you be both? Can you be anti a guy who we 'need' to stay in the league? You might not like his style of football but from what you've said, the team isn't good enough without him in charge, in which case why would you want him gone? You want us to get relegated? If the team is that bad that they'd not stay up with someone else in charge, why the Pulis hate?

Yes, I want us relegated  ::)

Wanted Pulis gone once we were confirmed as being safe last season so that a new manager had a full transfer window to bring in the players to turn us into a better side. As you would note from my post if you understood it, my fear is that we will now end up at the start of the season with the current squad, which isn't great, and as such, for the sake of safety, you would keep Pulis in charge to get us to the 40 point mark before hopefully then, with the takeover complete, look to push on next summer.

As ever with the Albion, matters have dragged along to the point whereby if a takeover went ahead, we would be left with next to no time to take advantage of it in this window.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwick2 on July 26, 2016, 05:42:00 PM
I doubt the announcement from Wanda will be paramount related as the original post about the announcement from their Facebook profile linked to their sports holding page. Not saying it will be Albion, just that it is worth noting
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 26, 2016, 05:42:22 PM
I can see it now.....we wont buy any players due to the ongoing takeover negotiations and then we wont be sold by transfer deadline day.....and then on deadline day we will panic buy rubbish.

And nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all, the needle returns to the start of the song and we all sing along like before.
And we'll make no signings tonight and none tomorrow. :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 26, 2016, 05:49:47 PM
I doubt the announcement from Wanda will be paramount related as the original post about the announcement from their Facebook profile linked to their sports holding page. Not saying it will be Albion, just that it is worth noting

This makes me think there could be something in it...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on July 26, 2016, 05:51:02 PM
And nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all, the needle returns to the start of the song and we all sing along like before.
And we'll make no signings tonight and none tomorrow. :)


Class song. I remember buying that  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 26, 2016, 05:52:24 PM
Was that the guy on WM? If so he didn't actually say it was Wang Jianlin in that interview.
he did mention wanda in that interview.

just had another listen and he does also say allegedly Wang Jianlin is interested in the albion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LoxleyBaggie on July 26, 2016, 06:01:29 PM
This makes me think there could be something in it...

I thought someone had already posted a link regarding the Financial Times story about Wanda planning to launch some equivalent of the Uefa Champions League.  If not, here is the FT story..

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7af1f348-442b-11e6-9b66-0712b3873ae1.html
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 26, 2016, 06:17:18 PM
he did mention wanda in that interview.

Have another listen. His exact words:

'Also in that group is Mr. Jianlin of Wanda who is rumoured to be buying West Brom.'

'He's the man in line for West Bromwich Albion?'

'Allegedly, yeah.'

Doesn't sound like the guy is saying anything more than the Birmingham Mail says: rumours and alleged interest. Very non-committal. It's a far cry from 'they're definitely involved'. Franksy doesn't push him for more info either.

I could be miles off, but it's not enough for me for someone to say there's alleged rumours that Wang Jianlin is buying Albion, when that's been said since last summer.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 26, 2016, 06:21:35 PM
Have another listen. His exact words:

'Also in that group is Mr. Jianlin of Wanda who is rumoured to be buying West Brom.'

'He's the man in line for West Bromwich Albion?'

'Allegedly, yeah.'

Doesn't sound like the guy is saying anything more than the Birmingham Mail says: rumours and alleged interest. Very non-committal. It's a far cry from 'they're definitely involved'. Franksy doesn't push him for more info either.

I could be miles off, but it's not enough for me for someone to say there's alleged rumours that Wang Jianlin is buying Albion, when that's been said since last summer.

Franksy does push him later on and he says 'that deal should go ahead unless there is any hidden problems'
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lonions on July 26, 2016, 07:04:03 PM
If it wasn't Wanda I would of thought that they would deny the rumours but they don't. I'm not sure if it is them but think they would of denied it and not add fuel to the speculation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 26, 2016, 07:06:50 PM
If it wasn't Wanda I would of thought that they would deny the rumours but they don't. I'm not sure if it is them but think they would of denied it and not add fuel to the speculation.

Why? They seem to be snowballing globally. They could be happy to let it rumble on and get some free publicity in British press.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 26, 2016, 07:16:23 PM
Why? They seem to be snowballing globally. They could be happy to let it rumble on and get some free publicity in British press.

Maybe, but they did quickly deny the Southampton rumors just two days after they started with an official statement (http://www.wanda-group.com/2014/latest_0120/394.html). I am not sure they are fans of being misreported. Have they have had a change of heart now though? they are fueling the speculation by replying to Albion fans on social media. Would seem a massive u turn in decision making. Doesn't make sense to quash rumours so fast, then 1 year later fuel very similar reports.

I also don't understand how the Express & Star can claim the Jack Ma speculation as instant 'wide of the mark' yet have allowed the Wanda speculation to keep growing. Did someone at the club tell them 100% it was not Jack Ma? Why haven't they been able to get full confirmation on Wanda?

We will see what this sports announcement brings by Wanda, I mean there is a massive chance its nothing to do with us but its just strange how its been festering for so long.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Beefy on July 26, 2016, 07:29:58 PM
I know the first announcement was 4 am this morning but had been delayed,
But this is a very long delay is it not,
Have they said when they are finally going to announce this ............
Or is it a complete wind up ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 26, 2016, 07:33:28 PM
When is this sports announcement supposed to be made?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 26, 2016, 07:38:37 PM
When is this sports announcement supposed to be made?

Being re-arranged, I assume we might have another announcement of the announcement tomorrow, with a new date.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 26, 2016, 07:47:35 PM
Maybe, but they did quickly deny the Southampton rumors just two days after they started with an official statement (http://www.wanda-group.com/2014/latest_0120/394.html). I am not sure they are fans of being misreported. Have they have had a change of heart now though? they are fueling the speculation by replying to Albion fans on social media. Would seem a massive u turn in decision making. Doesn't make sense to quash rumours so fast, then 1 year later fuel very similar reports.

I also don't understand how the Express & Star can claim the Jack Ma speculation as instant 'wide of the mark' yet have allowed the Wanda speculation to keep growing. Did someone at the club tell them 100% it was not Jack Ma? Why haven't they been able to get full confirmation on Wanda?

We will see what this sports announcement brings by Wanda, I mean there is a massive chance its nothing to do with us but its just strange how its been festering for so long.

I didn't know that so thank you. It could be that the company is in a different place now, but it does beg the question.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on July 26, 2016, 08:27:06 PM
It's hard to get away from the fact that the Wanda Group aren't working hard to deny the rumours. It does seem the announcement is sports related. I am not for one minute saying its definitely them but I am more confident today than I was yesterday. It would make some kind of sense. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 26, 2016, 08:39:08 PM
I call them Muppets simply because a lot of them seem to think we can compete for any player in world football and make stupid comments but hey I suppose that's social media for you...anyway back on topic I'd love to be wrong I really would because Wanda group seem like a serious force in the market but I can see no way unless they are somehow connected to the party its all agreed with being them sorry but I just wouldn't get one's hopes up.
.   Cheers mate , Let's just wait and see  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 26, 2016, 08:42:18 PM
Have another listen. His exact words:

'Also in that group is Mr. Jianlin of Wanda who is rumoured to be buying West Brom.'

'He's the man in line for West Bromwich Albion?'

'Allegedly, yeah.'

Doesn't sound like the guy is saying anything more than the Birmingham Mail says: rumours and alleged interest. Very non-committal. It's a far cry from 'they're definitely involved'. Franksy doesn't push him for more info either.

I could be miles off, but it's not enough for me for someone to say there's alleged rumours that Wang Jianlin is buying Albion, when that's been said since last summer.
that's not my point, you said he doesn't mention Jianlin, just saying that he does mention him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 26, 2016, 09:07:08 PM
that's not my point, you said he doesn't mention Jianlin, just saying that he does mention him.

Nope, not what I said in the original post. I said the guy in the interview didn't say it was Wang Jianlin who was buying the Albion. Which he didn't, he merely said he's rumoured and when pressed said 'allegedly'. What's it matter now anyway, he's apparently an expert so it's bound to be Wanda.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 26, 2016, 09:12:39 PM
Nope, not what I said in the original post. I said the guy in the interview didn't say it was Wang Jianlin who was buying the Albion. Which he didn't, he merely said he's rumoured and when pressed said 'allegedly'. What's it matter now anyway, he's apparently an expert so it's bound to be Wanda.
just wish the saga would blow away myself.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 26, 2016, 09:24:14 PM
just wish the saga would blow away myself.

You and me both mate.

I can't take many more Albion fans tweeting Wanda. One even tweeted them saying 'are you buying WBA, the fans deserve to know'. Jesus wept.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 26, 2016, 09:29:56 PM
I can't take many more Albion fans tweeting Wanda. One even tweeted them saying 'are you buying WBA, the fans deserve to know'. Jesus wept.
There's always a danger that tweeting will bring out the numpty in people at times!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 26, 2016, 09:30:53 PM
You and me both mate.

I can't take many more Albion fans tweeting Wanda. One even tweeted them saying 'are you buying WBA, the fans deserve to know'. Jesus wept.

Just read the planning page in the E & S, got to hand it to these Chinese, Golden Dragon is changing it's name to Wanda  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on July 26, 2016, 09:45:58 PM
You and me both mate.

I can't take many more Albion fans tweeting Wanda. One even tweeted them saying 'are you buying WBA, the fans deserve to know'. Jesus wept.

Literally seen you post nothing but moaning about Albion fans on Twitter over the last few days. If it bothers you that much then don't go on there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 26, 2016, 10:08:44 PM
Observation...

Looks like Dalian Wanda Group were pretty stern in their rebuttable of a Daily Mirror article about a takeover of Southampton. There has been a similar article regarding us and no rebuttal.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on July 26, 2016, 10:54:30 PM
Observation...

Looks like Dalian Wanda Group were pretty stern in their rebuttable of a Daily Mirror article about a takeover of Southampton. There has been a similar article regarding us and no rebuttal.

I'd agree, they have interacted with Albion fans twice. Neither time saying we're not interested. Once could be the twitter guy not knowing, but days later they do it again. Unless they are trolling the fans then why are they and i find a multi-billion pound company trolling football fans hard to believe. It's not like they need the advertising or PR?

It's a case of wait and see, but if it isn't Wanda, I will reflect on this period wondering what they were up to.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on July 26, 2016, 10:56:12 PM
I really hope Peace stays as it will be another part of the clubs sole lost if we are foreign owned. However it seems as though it is a done deal now unless a late withdrawal happens like last time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on July 26, 2016, 11:02:34 PM
I really hope Peace stays as it will be another part of the clubs sole lost if we are foreign owned. However it seems as though it is a done deal now unless a late withdrawal happens like last time.

If the owner is clever they'll have him work him in hand with the Chair for a season as a handover and get at least 2 current staff members to sign up for 2-3 years. Being foreign owned doesn't mean having a Chinese chair who knows nothing about UK football, especially if it's Wanda, I expect them to appoint the best person they can get for the job.

It's odd, we're just days away from either a very exciting time, or a disaster. In ten years time we'll look back and know, but now, it's a coin flip.

I'm a tad nervous about it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 26, 2016, 11:02:59 PM
I really hope Peace stays as it will be another part of the clubs sole lost if we are foreign owned. However it seems as though it is a done deal now unless a late withdrawal happens like last time.

Thanks Baggie79. Put the Wanda dreamers hopes to rest would ya?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on July 26, 2016, 11:03:22 PM
I really hope Peace stays as it will be another part of the clubs sole lost if we are foreign owned. However it seems as though it is a done deal now unless a late withdrawal happens like last time.

I know what your saying but we NEED investment to sustain and push on as a football club. JP can't do that with us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on July 26, 2016, 11:07:29 PM
Baggie79 do you think there is a chance JP will stick around if/when he sells? Or do you think he'll want to retire nicely on his wealth?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: matt_home1 on July 26, 2016, 11:09:39 PM
One thing with up, we were never a toy or play thing, we were his life for 13 years, and a decent go of it he made. I only hope the new owners have the money, ambition and the know how to take us to the next level. But one thing for sure season tickets will go over £400. Buy them cheap while you still can
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 26, 2016, 11:10:48 PM
One thing with up, we were never a toy or play thing, we were his life for 13 years, and a decent go of it he made. I only hope the new owners have the money, ambition and the know how to take us to the next level. But one thing for sure season tickets will go over £400. Buy them cheap while you still can
Already am in some parts of the ground.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: matt_home1 on July 26, 2016, 11:12:12 PM
I know, but I imagine cheapest will be at least £500 soon. To "enable us to compete" ffp being the driver
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 26, 2016, 11:19:59 PM
I think Peace will stay on even if we do get taken over, I hope he does. He can pocket a bit more money, network with the Chinese and leave us in good stead in a couple of years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 26, 2016, 11:32:25 PM
Heard a little rumour that Jenkins could be leaving as part of the takeover.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 26, 2016, 11:42:35 PM
Literally seen you post nothing but moaning about Albion fans on Twitter over the last few days. If it bothers you that much then don't go on there.

Selective reading? I've posted about plenty other stuff. I didn't realise me posting my grievances on here grated on you so much. Might I suggest you read my other posts, they may be to your liking. Though probably not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 26, 2016, 11:48:22 PM
Baggie79 do you think there is a chance JP will stick around if/when he sells? Or do you think he'll want to retire nicely on his wealth?

Will be quite hard as he needs to stay living abroad for 5 years if his move to Jersey is going to save him CGT on the sale
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on July 27, 2016, 01:20:23 AM
Heard a little rumour that Jenkins could be leaving as part of the takeover.

Quite a few said this the other week, will be one of the bonuses of a takeover if it happens.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 27, 2016, 07:16:54 AM
Quite a few said this the other week, will be one of the bonuses of a takeover if it happens.

Why do people dislike Jenkins? I've always thought he went about his business quite quietly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 08:04:12 AM
I'd agree, they have interacted with Albion fans twice. Neither time saying we're not interested. Once could be the twitter guy not knowing, but days later they do it again. Unless they are trolling the fans then why are they and i find a multi-billion pound company trolling football fans hard to believe. It's not like they need the advertising or PR?

It's a case of wait and see, but if it isn't Wanda, I will reflect on this period wondering what they were up to.

I'd never heard of them until this, think it's an excellent advertising ploy by them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 08:08:04 AM
Why do people dislike Jenkins? I've always thought he went about his business quite quietly.

I don't dislike him, but I'm not sure what he does. The fact that JP has returned to a hands on role suggests that he's pretty well surplus to requirement, & most of the debacle of three years ago was aimed in his direction.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 27, 2016, 09:10:35 AM
Even the missus said this morning "ay that takeover happened yet? it is worse than waiting for a story line to finish in Emmerdale".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 27, 2016, 09:44:47 AM
Anyone else just a tad excited that we might be on the verge of finally hearing of this saga coming to a close??

Cannot wait for this to end and get the season started
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 27, 2016, 09:45:40 AM
Anyone else just a tad excited that we might be on the verge of finally hearing of this saga coming to a close??

Cannot wait for this to end and get the season started

I'll raise a glass to that!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 27, 2016, 09:46:18 AM
it sure is kept under wraps eh Mr Wanda :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 27, 2016, 09:50:31 AM
How we manage to keep our cards so close to our chest without so much of a hint of whats going on is amazing really in this day and age

Imagine how short this thread would be if we all knew weeks ago, its got us all talking, there has been rumour, suspense and more rumour

I like many others just want to know now....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 27, 2016, 09:55:20 AM
How we manage to keep our cards so close to our chest without so much of a hint of whats going on is amazing really in this day and age

Imagine how short this thread would be if we all knew weeks ago, its got us all talking, there has been rumour, suspense and more rumour

I like many others just want to know now....
Well if Baggie 38 is right it wont be long.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 27, 2016, 10:04:14 AM
Well if Baggie 38 is right it wont be long.
It also won't be Wanda!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 27, 2016, 10:05:32 AM
Well if Baggie 38 is right it wont be long.
or anytime now jp's yearly message will pop up on official site on how he has pulled the plug
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 27, 2016, 10:11:30 AM
or anytime now jp's yearly message will pop up on official site on how he has pulled the plug

This is how I'm getting by. I'm just constantly telling myself it will be business as usual and the plug will soon be pulled. I really don't know what to believe anymore. Itn people saying it's done etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 27, 2016, 10:21:12 AM
or anytime now jp's yearly message will pop up on official site on how he has pulled the plug
I was just about to post that!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 27, 2016, 11:41:15 AM
Heard it could be evergrande group
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on July 27, 2016, 11:49:23 AM
Heard it could be evergrande group

Owner is 8th richest man in china worth 4.9billion.
Jack Ma owns a share of the company as well.

they also own Guangzhou who have spent some big money this summer on players like Jackson Martinez
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 27, 2016, 12:26:00 PM
I see a potential loophole to increase our revenue and still comply with FFP rules. I think it would be legal for WBA buy players at competitive prices play them for a couple of seaasons and then sell on to chinese football club (Guangzhou Evergrande FC) at much higher prices, giving huge profit to WBA to futher invest in world-class players. I would imagine there are also some tax and investment benefits to Evergrande group.

Over a period of 4 to 5 years we could be challenging for league titles and European Championship.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 27, 2016, 12:27:53 PM
I see a potential loophole to increase our revenue and still comply with FFP rules. I think it would be legal for WBA buy players at competitive prices play them for a couple of seaasons and then sell on to chinese football club (Guangzhou Evergrande FC) at much higher prices, giving huge profit to WBA to futher invest in world-class players. I would imagine there are also some tax and investment benefits to Evergrande group.

Over a period of 4 to 5 years we could be challenging for league titles and European Championship.  ;D

Stop it ! You will be quoted on Vile talk and Mong mix within the hour !

I can feel them biting already
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 27, 2016, 12:29:33 PM
Heard it could be evergrande group


are they richer than the lot up and down the road
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 27, 2016, 12:34:58 PM
when can we say "I'm seriously richer than yow" as loadsamoney would say.
its the waiting that hurts and its the suspense that kills you, eh guys.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 27, 2016, 12:42:43 PM
Stop it ! You will be quoted on Vile talk and Mong mix within the hour !

I can feel them biting already

Excellent, I can't wait for the uneducated and unwashed to take a rise out of us, only to see them all in tears as our takeover rolls forward 8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 27, 2016, 01:11:48 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-rumour-evergrande-11670257 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-rumour-evergrande-11670257)

Well there you go, Birmingham Mail for you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 27, 2016, 01:17:33 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-rumour-evergrande-11670257 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-rumour-evergrande-11670257)

Well there you go, Birmingham Mail for you.

I got the info off a guy in media so they knew about this before my comment. Also says a Far East source contacted them, doubt a Far East source comes onto westbrom.com very often
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 27, 2016, 01:25:43 PM
I got the info off a guy in media so they knew about this before my comment. Also says a Far East source contacted them, doubt a Far East source comes onto westbrom.com very often

You got there first in terms of releasing the info, did you get it off a guy at the Mail? If not I'm surprised nobody else is reporting. Not sure who'd have approached the mail anyway. Why not a national paper?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on July 27, 2016, 01:26:34 PM
I got the info off a guy in media so they knew about this before my comment. Also says a Far East source contacted them, doubt a Far East source comes onto westbrom.com very often

Isn't Far East sauce produced at that place on the corner of Kenrick way and Birmingham Rd? Maybe it is literally Far East that is the buyer!!!!!  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggielad82 on July 27, 2016, 01:40:53 PM
Isn't Far East sauce produced at that place on the corner of Kenrick way and Birmingham Rd? Maybe it is literally Far East that is the buyer!!!!!  :D

It's East End lol, but that could always be a typo error on the reports.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 27, 2016, 01:44:35 PM
i used to be east end but a converted west ender now
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 27, 2016, 02:00:24 PM
Don't know what is means but here you are.

On Wednesday, one day before Evergrande announced this latest acquisition, credit agency Fitch Ratings downgraded the developer’s rating from BB- to B+ and gave it a negative outlook. The company’s bonds fared even worse with its senior unsecured and other outstanding notes getting downgraded from BB- to B- , according to a statement from Fitch.

The ratings agency attributed the downgrade to Evergrande’s ongoing high degree of leverage, which it said “leaves it with limited financial flexibility to face potential headwinds in the domestic property or credit markets.”

This level of indebtedness has only been exacerbated in recent months by an acquisition streak that analysts at JP Morgan characterised as displaying “immature capital management” in November – before the developer’s most recent $2.6 billion in investments.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 02:02:48 PM
I got the info off a guy in media so they knew about this before my comment. Also says a Far East source contacted them, doubt a Far East source comes onto westbrom.com very often

Probably been shopping in Wing Yip?

For Soy Sauce?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 27, 2016, 02:03:47 PM
Don't know what is means but here you are.

On Wednesday, one day before Evergrande announced this latest acquisition, credit agency Fitch Ratings downgraded the developer’s rating from BB- to B+ and gave it a negative outlook. The company’s bonds fared even worse with its senior unsecured and other outstanding notes getting downgraded from BB- to B- , according to a statement from Fitch.

The ratings agency attributed the downgrade to Evergrande’s ongoing high degree of leverage, which it said “leaves it with limited financial flexibility to face potential headwinds in the domestic property or credit markets.”

This level of indebtedness has only been exacerbated in recent months by an acquisition streak that analysts at JP Morgan characterised as displaying “immature capital management” in November – before the developer’s most recent $2.6 billion in investments.

Yep - I have no idea if this is trying to prove something good or bad!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 27, 2016, 02:03:54 PM
Don't know what is means but here you are.

On Wednesday, one day before Evergrande announced this latest acquisition, credit agency Fitch Ratings downgraded the developer’s rating from BB- to B+ and gave it a negative outlook. The company’s bonds fared even worse with its senior unsecured and other outstanding notes getting downgraded from BB- to B- , according to a statement from Fitch.

The ratings agency attributed the downgrade to Evergrande’s ongoing high degree of leverage, which it said “leaves it with limited financial flexibility to face potential headwinds in the domestic property or credit markets.”

This level of indebtedness has only been exacerbated in recent months by an acquisition streak that analysts at JP Morgan characterised as displaying “immature capital management” in November – before the developer’s most recent $2.6 billion in investments.
In a nutshell, it's basically telling them..... " You don't know what you're doin......"  :)
Let the chaos commence!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 02:04:53 PM
Don't know what is means but here you are.

On Wednesday, one day before Evergrande announced this latest acquisition, credit agency Fitch Ratings downgraded the developer’s rating from BB- to B+ and gave it a negative outlook. The company’s bonds fared even worse with its senior unsecured and other outstanding notes getting downgraded from BB- to B- , according to a statement from Fitch.

The ratings agency attributed the downgrade to Evergrande’s ongoing high degree of leverage, which it said “leaves it with limited financial flexibility to face potential headwinds in the domestic property or credit markets.”

This level of indebtedness has only been exacerbated in recent months by an acquisition streak that analysts at JP Morgan characterised as displaying “immature capital management” in November – before the developer’s most recent $2.6 billion in investments.


It's Bloomberg's way of saying "They've run out of dosh"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 02:09:44 PM
Isn't Far East sauce produced at that place on the corner of Kenrick way and Birmingham Rd? Maybe it is literally Far East that is the buyer!!!!!  :D

If he can do for the Albion what he did for that company - Yes Please
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 27, 2016, 02:10:20 PM

It's Bloomberg's way of saying "They've run out of dosh"
BRIEF-China Calxon's share trade to halt pending results of Evergrande's acquisition offer

* Says share trade to halt from July 21 pending results of Evergrande Real Estate's acquisition offer- - - - - (repeated)

Jul 20 2016

What does that mean John.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 02:14:56 PM
Going same way as last year, looks like it's off lads.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-27/china-stock-calm-shatters-as-regulatory-curb-talk-spooks-traders (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-27/china-stock-calm-shatters-as-regulatory-curb-talk-spooks-traders)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 27, 2016, 02:18:21 PM
Going same way as last year, looks like it's off lads.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-27/china-stock-calm-shatters-as-regulatory-curb-talk-spooks-traders (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-27/china-stock-calm-shatters-as-regulatory-curb-talk-spooks-traders)
Well if true Peace should come out and say it asap.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 27, 2016, 02:20:58 PM
Well if true Peace should come out and say it asap.


And quickly go and buy some footballers
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 02:21:15 PM
BRIEF-China Calxon's share trade to halt pending results of Evergrande's acquisition offer

* Says share trade to halt from July 21 pending results of Evergrande Real Estate's acquisition offer- - - - - (repeated)

Jul 20 2016

What does that mean John.

Don't know without seeing the whole article, but it looks as though trading on the shares has been suspended. I'd say they've got a cash flow problem.

It's a bit like you buying a car on HP, based on doing overtime at work. If your employer stops the overtime, you won't be able to meet your HP payments.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 27, 2016, 02:25:13 PM
Going same way as last year, looks like it's off lads.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-27/china-stock-calm-shatters-as-regulatory-curb-talk-spooks-traders (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-27/china-stock-calm-shatters-as-regulatory-curb-talk-spooks-traders)

Annoys be that other teams get in their takeover ASAP, before any mess ups. We drag ours out and then a problem like this pops up, which halts the takeover again!
It's as if JP is waiting for something like this to happen or maybe he knows it's going to happen, so he hangs around waiting for this perfect moment to announce the failed takeover
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on July 27, 2016, 02:25:22 PM
What was the date when Peace pulled the plug last year when it had began interfering with preparations for the forthcoming season?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 27, 2016, 02:26:41 PM
Any supposed ITK people will post as and when anything can be posted, please stop asking them in threads. If you wish to know anything then pm the person you think maybe ITK
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 27, 2016, 02:29:51 PM
What was the date when Peace pulled the plug last year when it had began interfering with preparations for the forthcoming season?
Just a question why on earth would he do it again?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 27, 2016, 02:31:49 PM
Just a question why on earth would he do it again?

Because he's said he wants to give the club to someone knowing its in safe hands and not for the big pay-off. Some will disagree with this motive but if he does pull the plug again then expect a something along those lines being said.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 27, 2016, 02:32:02 PM
Just looked at posts from this time last year and I think we're about 4 days later than last year where Peace posted his message about it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 27, 2016, 02:36:08 PM
Evergrande (3333.HK) share price is out performing the market, so Bloomberg comments are being ignored by the traders.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 27, 2016, 02:51:30 PM
wouldnt it be great for once to be able to sing we are richer than you to our nearest & dearest
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 27, 2016, 02:54:15 PM
It's all done just going through the final checks now. No idea who it is I'm just as much in the dark about that as everyone else I just know it's done and it's not Wanda I haven't been informed as to who it is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 27, 2016, 02:55:45 PM
Going same way as last year, looks like it's off lads.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-27/china-stock-calm-shatters-as-regulatory-curb-talk-spooks-traders (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-27/china-stock-calm-shatters-as-regulatory-curb-talk-spooks-traders)
Why does this mean it's off?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie_Bouncer2005 on July 27, 2016, 03:01:30 PM
Looks like the Wanda announcement was unrelated to the Albion!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/wanda-buy-chinese-movie-website-914893 (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/wanda-buy-chinese-movie-website-914893)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 27, 2016, 03:02:25 PM
wouldnt it be great for once to be able to sing we are richer than you to our nearest & dearest

Or to hear other teams jeolous supporters chanting ' where were you when you were s**t'.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 27, 2016, 03:04:15 PM
It's all done just going through the final checks now. No idea who it is I'm just as much in the dark about that as everyone else I just know it's done and it's not Wanda I haven't been informed as to who it is.

Hopefully this means we can sleep easier tonight - thanks 38 !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 27, 2016, 03:18:14 PM
Hopefully this means we can sleep easier tonight - thanks 38 !

The FA have to go through the final checks it's the same with all takeovers...this is the stage we are currently at.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 27, 2016, 03:20:54 PM
The FA have to go through the final checks it's the same with all takeovers...this is the stage we are currently at.

So basically - Villa were doing all this in public and it was a few weeks after the FA checks I think that everything was confirmed but because it was out in the public we could all see the progress. I think everybody just gets worked up by all these little movements by Wanda/stock markets and adding 2&2 to make 5
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 27, 2016, 03:21:49 PM
The FA have to go through the final checks it's the same with all takeovers...this is the stage we are currently at.

Virtually done and dusted then one would think !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 27, 2016, 03:22:53 PM
The FA have to go through the final checks it's the same with all takeovers...this is the stage we are currently at.

So it is fairly advanced then. Do you see any issues from the fit and proper checks then 38? Again thanks for info
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on July 27, 2016, 03:25:20 PM
stop it you are getting me all excited when I told myself not to be optimistic after last summer's disapointment!  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 27, 2016, 03:26:55 PM
got this feeling the sites going to bucklecrash again :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on July 27, 2016, 03:30:00 PM
I just hope whoever it is has deeper pockets and longer arms than JP, he's done a great job but for us to progress we do need to really move up in the spending market.

Cross your fingers folks!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 03:31:02 PM
Why does this mean it's off?

Allegedly the fall in the Chinese stock market was a big factor in the decision to pull the plug last time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 27, 2016, 03:34:09 PM
This is going to be a busy site over the next few days I reckon

Be interesting when its all announced
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 27, 2016, 03:37:17 PM
This is going to be a busy site over the next few days I reckon

Be interesting when its all announced


might beat the 1092 members online august 31, 2011. what was that for again, obviously a transfer deadline day

its nearly as exciting as brexit night
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 27, 2016, 03:43:16 PM
How can 38 shed any light into the fit and proper persons test when he doesn't know the buyers are. Give him break  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 27, 2016, 03:50:59 PM
Allegedly the fall in the Chinese stock market was a big factor in the decision to pull the plug last time.
If the deal is already done, as 38 suggests, would it be irrelevant or could it still put a stop to it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 27, 2016, 03:52:13 PM
We await for twitter to catch fire
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 27, 2016, 03:53:19 PM
We await for twitter to catch fire

[REDACTED RANT ABOUT TWITTER]
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on July 27, 2016, 03:53:59 PM
How we manage to keep our cards so close to our chest without so much of a hint of whats going on is amazing really in this day and age

Imagine how short this thread would be if we all knew weeks ago, its got us all talking, there has been rumour, suspense and more rumour

I like many others just want to know now....

The issue with this is that anyone who genuinely knows anything about this cannot go into specifics because that would be classed as insider trading if it got into the public domain due to both parties being on the stock market and everyone who is privy to anything has been pre warned about this. You wont get anything more from me than it is "likely" to happen as I aint saft enough to stitch myself up. Anyone giving specifics is either guessing or stupidly putting themselves and there contact at risk of litigation.

I think that explains why it is so closely guarded.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 27, 2016, 04:01:53 PM
The issue with this is that anyone who genuinely knows anything about this cannot go into specifics because that would be classed as insider trading if it got into the public domain due to both parties being on the stock market and everyone who is privy to anything has been pre warned about this. You wont get anything more from me than it is "likely" to happen as I aint saft enough to stitch myself up. Anyone giving specifics is either guessing or stupidly putting themselves and there contact at risk of litigation.

I think that explains why it is so closely guarded.

Exactly, page after page of speculation, if and when it happens, it's worth discussion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 27, 2016, 04:02:13 PM
These things always happen when Ive booked a bit of time off work and have nothing better to do but refresh all things Albion.

Wish we knew just how imminent it is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on July 27, 2016, 04:05:59 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-rumour-evergrande-11670257?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: keithowba86 on July 27, 2016, 04:11:26 PM
someones already had fun with his wikipedia page! lol
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on July 27, 2016, 04:14:47 PM
These things always happen when Ive booked a bit of time off work and have nothing better to do but refresh all things Albion.

Wish we knew just how imminent it is.


I'm just hoping it happens before I die.  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 27, 2016, 04:21:39 PM
Think it will be very interesting to see if Peace stays on in order to help the new investor. Whats everyone's thoughts on this? would they like this to happen or would you rather Peace go and wish him well?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 27, 2016, 04:24:23 PM
I would keep him on as a condition of the purchase, Once I felt secure in "knowing" the business operations, go with my best wishes.

Its quite a normal thing to do in the "real business" world.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 27, 2016, 04:24:57 PM
Think it will be very interesting to see if Peace stays on in order to help the new investor. Whats everyone's thoughts on this? would they like this to happen or would you rather Peace go and wish him well?


give him another season, i am sure he will be encouraging new owners to spend :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 04:33:37 PM
Think it will be very interesting to see if Peace stays on in order to help the new investor. Whats everyone's thoughts on this? would they like this to happen or would you rather Peace go and wish him well?

Really depends on what JP's own plans are. There are loads of opportunities to use the WBA model to develop another football club.

I assume Nick Hammond & Richard Garlick will stay in post, but the owners will want their own CEO, who doesn't have to be a football man. He does however, need to be a people man, to integrate the owners, the club & the fans.
Depending on how they want to link WBA to activities back home, will determine our style of play. I would imagine TP's position will be OK for this season, but almost certainly, the new owners will want a more exciting style of play (akin to Arsenal for example), so longer term, I could see TP being replaced.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 27, 2016, 04:35:29 PM
Garlic and Hammond to stay, peace and Jenkins to go. Jenkins actually already gone. Should be done by mid next week.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 27, 2016, 04:37:25 PM
Think it will be very interesting to see if Peace stays on in order to help the new investor. Whats everyone's thoughts on this? would they like this to happen or would you rather Peace go and wish him well?

It would definitely be in the interest of the club for Peace to stay (even as a consultant) for a season or even two.

How likely that is I don't know?

He could potentially have plans of his own to go and get some value out of a League One club (Sheff Utd etc...Get them promoted and looking strong in the Champ and get another £30m for his trouble depends if he still feels he needs a business thrill or not) or he could be planning on retirement.

I really don't understand the people that constantly slate Peace. He has delivered us a healthy football club. The past three years have been rocky but we're still as high as we've ever been in my life time and i'm over 30!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 27, 2016, 05:05:22 PM
I would keep him on as a condition of the purchase, Once I felt secure in "knowing" the business operations, go with my best wishes.

Its quite a normal thing to do in the "real business" world.

Very hard for Peace to stay on - he has moved to Jersey in order to avoid CGT on the sale.  If he stays in a role in the UK then he won't be non-resident, and so wouldn't save the tax.  28% tax on (say) £150m is £42m.  Why on earth would he take a paid executive role if it means having to pay £42m of tax which he is very clearly intending to avoid?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 27, 2016, 05:11:42 PM
Think it will be very interesting to see if Peace stays on in order to help the new investor. Whats everyone's thoughts on this? would they like this to happen or would you rather Peace go and wish him well?
would like him to stay has done a great job but enjoy spending someone elses money and get a new manager but thats my thoughts
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 27, 2016, 05:22:24 PM
Very hard for Peace to stay on - he has moved to Jersey in order to avoid CGT on the sale.  If he stays in a role in the UK then he won't be non-resident, and so wouldn't save the tax.  28% tax on (say) £150m is £42m.  Why on earth would he take a paid executive role if it means having to pay £42m of tax which he is very clearly intending to avoid?

Doesn't have to be domiciled though does he?, surely he can fly in-out, work remotely etc, etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: palmaroy on July 27, 2016, 05:24:11 PM
According to the E&S it is not Evergrande. West a rom have rub usher that rumour.So why are we getting so carried away
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 27, 2016, 05:31:58 PM
Sorry palmaroy could not understand your message.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 27, 2016, 05:35:10 PM
Doesn't have to be domiciled though does he?, surely he can fly in-out, work remotely etc, etc.

In the first tax year (i.e. this current one) he needs to demonstrate that he has broken his UK tax residency.  Prudent advice is to absolutely minimize the number of days in which he sets foot in the UK.  From years 2-5 he can (broadly) spend between 60 and 120 days in the UK each year, depending on the extent of his UK ties, which would allow him to commute to an extent, but not between now and 5 April 2017.

He can certainly work remotely, if that's feasible depending on what role they might want him to play.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 27, 2016, 05:40:44 PM
He'll be away like shoite off a shovel as soon as he gets his money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 27, 2016, 05:52:58 PM
Think it will be very interesting to see if Peace stays on in order to help the new investor. Whats everyone's thoughts on this? would they like this to happen or would you rather Peace go and wish him well?

A clean break. Surely the new owners will want their own man (or woman) in charge. Hopefully they'll want a new head coach too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 27, 2016, 05:55:09 PM
I'd prefer Peace to stay, he's proven to be a safe-bet and with more money we could go a step further. It's a bit like Steve Parish at Crystal Palace who was kept on by their American owners; he advises on transfer targets, budgets etc.
I'm not saying it will happen but if you get someone in who goes wild with spending then it could be horrific.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 27, 2016, 05:56:04 PM
tune in tomorrow for another link to new owners lol 1 a day at the moment
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on July 27, 2016, 05:58:06 PM
Peace must go. With new owners he will hold the club back. It's safe vs risk. I'd rather us take a real risk and try to become something than play the safe card and go nowhere.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 27, 2016, 06:01:05 PM
Peace must go. With new owners he will hold the club back. It's safe vs risk. I'd rather us take a real risk and try to become something than play the safe card and go nowhere.

That risk comes entirely down to the extent at which the new owners can afford to get it wrong. All well and good thinking we'll throw hundreds of millions about, but they've got to work. QPR spent hugely, way out our league and were God awful.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on July 27, 2016, 06:06:40 PM
That risk comes entirely down to the extent at which the new owners can afford to get it wrong. All well and good thinking we'll throw hundreds of millions about, but they've got to work. QPR spent hugely, way out our league and were God awful.


Yeah but so what. They ended up in the Championship, the club didn't die. You will get nowhere without taking a risk, it either fails and you take a step or two back or it works out and you become a real force.

Is it worth the gamble? For me, hell yeah!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 27, 2016, 06:11:11 PM

Yeah but so what. They ended up in the Championship, the club didn't die. You will get nowhere without taking a risk, it either fails and you take a step or two back or it works out and you become a real force.

Is it worth the gamble? For me, hell yeah!

A step or two back is one thing.  Doing a Leeds or a Portsmouth is rather more.

I want my club to still exist in good shape in 10, 20 and 50 years time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 27, 2016, 06:16:13 PM
I think that after some of the claims by itk posters in the last few days, there may be a few red faces if the take over suddenly disappears with a statement by Peace that he is going to be hands on again!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on July 27, 2016, 06:20:56 PM
Please don't shoot the messenger ,but iv just been told the deal has been done and will be in the papers on Friday.Please don't ask me to ask my source because I don't want to get him into any  trouble with his employers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 27, 2016, 06:22:13 PM
Peace hasn't had much to do with the running of the club by his own admission, until a couple of seasons ago.
After the Pepe Mel, fiasco Peace came out and said he hadn't been at the wheel for much of the time, but now he was back he would sort it out.
And then he appointed Alan Irvine.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 27, 2016, 06:24:56 PM
Please don't shoot the messenger ,but iv just been told the deal has been done and will be in the papers on Friday.Please don't ask me to ask my source because I don't want to get him into any  trouble with his employers.

If that is the case, we had better buy all our targets now, because once the other teams find out how much we are worth...The prices will go up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 27, 2016, 06:28:25 PM
Where was the link to say the E&S had reported that Albion rubbished the story ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 27, 2016, 06:31:29 PM
Where was the link to say the E&S had reported that Albion rubbished the story ???

Matt Wilson said it on Twitter but didn't say Albion rubbished it he just rubbished it himself. BM and E&S know so little though, they run reports based on what we jabber on about on here!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bigrob80 on July 27, 2016, 06:31:36 PM
Garlic and Hammond to stay, peace and Jenkins to go. Jenkins actually already gone. Should be done by mid next week.

Is this what you think will happen?
Or are you giving us new news? 👍🏻
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 27, 2016, 06:33:08 PM
Please don't shoot the messenger ,but iv just been told the deal has been done and will be in the papers on Friday.Please don't ask me to ask my source because I don't want to get him into any  trouble with his employers.
.  Nice one newbie , What's the % of it happening in your opinion ?.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 27, 2016, 06:36:34 PM
Matt Wilson said it on Twitter but didn't say Albion rubbished it he just rubbished it himself. BM and E&S know so little though, they run reports based on what we jabber on about on here!

Thanks
All going a bit mad, everyone searching for ITK
Something bubbling though
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 27, 2016, 06:38:02 PM
Thanks
All going a bit mad, everyone searching for ITK
Something bubbling though

I'll stick with believing almost nobody and expecting the worst and secretly hope I get surprised over the next few days
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 27, 2016, 06:40:23 PM
Like  the Doris Day lyrics
Que Sera Sera

But again to all the IKN poster "Thanks for your posts & patient's, the last two pre seasons must have drove you mad"  ;)  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 27, 2016, 06:42:30 PM
If I was Peace I'd bugger off into the sun-set. He has very little love for the game anymore, in particular the agents, so I wouldn't begrudge him going. Whatever happens, the club will be in a better position than when he found it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 27, 2016, 06:47:48 PM
Think it will be very interesting to see if Peace stays on in order to help the new investor. Whats everyone's thoughts on this? would they like this to happen or would you rather Peace go and wish him well?
I am pretty sure I wouldn't be sitting in an office at the Albion if I had £150m in my bank account.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 27, 2016, 06:48:46 PM
I'll stick with believing almost nobody and expecting the worst and secretly hope I get surprised over the next few days

thats actually Chinese philosophy
Very apt and best way to be  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sooty2 on July 27, 2016, 06:51:42 PM
People at the club don't now who it is so the press won't yet they will only now when they are called to a press conference or it may be leaked in China first if the new owners want it put out there
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 06:54:18 PM
Where was the link to say the E&S had reported that Albion rubbished the story ???


Right at the bottom, last sentence

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/07/27/west-brom-target-charlie-taylor-refuses-to-sign-new-leeds-deal/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/07/27/west-brom-target-charlie-taylor-refuses-to-sign-new-leeds-deal/)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 27, 2016, 06:59:57 PM
so to summarise.
we are non the wiser today.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on July 27, 2016, 07:12:37 PM
What a farce.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 27, 2016, 07:14:03 PM
What a farce.

what is a farce??

surely you cant mean the club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 07:32:24 PM
Allegedly the deal is close, on that basis it's fair game to speculate & produce evidence on who it might be. It's also fair game to produce evidence on who it might not be, but, that's all it is, speculation.
It's interesting that the club have not denied that talks are in progress, so it's fair to assume that they are, but, they might not be.

It's common knowledge that a senior Chinese leader is crazy about football, & the Country as a whole, & wealthy Chinese Businessmen are seizing opportunities to exploit the Global football market, including the UK. So it's pretty fair to assume that the Chinese could be involved, but they might not.

A number of ITK posters have been given information that the deal is close, & I have no reason to doubt that they have given us that information in good faith, but deals "fall over" at the last minute so it might not be close.

I have contributed to this thread, mainly to give evidence on who it might not be, & to demonstrate why deals could "fall over" at the last minute, but it's just my opinion & I might be wrong.
So yes we're no wiser today, than we were yesterday ,or last week, or last month, the club will let us know when they're good & ready.

Will a deal completed, or not completed influence our activity in the transfer window?
I would think we will have produced a set of targets based on either scenario, if the deal goes through, we might get a better quality player than if the deal doesn't go through. I believe, if the deal does go through, we will buy one marque player, just to demonstrate what we could expect for the future
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 27, 2016, 07:47:29 PM
Peace hasn't had much to do with the running of the club by his own admission, until a couple of seasons ago.
After the Pepe Mel, fiasco Peace came out and said he hadn't been at the wheel for much of the time, but now he was back he would sort it out.
And then he appointed Alan Irvine.
Harsh, True but Harsh :D I think whoever it is will pay someone to do it properly Evergrrande home team has Scolari as manager. Wanda owns a fifth of Athletico Madrid though we'll no doubt find out soon
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 27, 2016, 07:49:36 PM
BaggieJohn Great post I agree with everything you said but just to put a small spanner in the works I know baggie 78 said it was not Wanda that was taking over but the express & dingle were Quick to shut down the Evergrand speculation but no reporters have ever shut down the WANDA rummers  Hmmmm LOL.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on July 27, 2016, 07:54:08 PM
I always remain pessimistic about Albion matters
I remember waiting ages and speculating for weeks about a new manager and we got Alan Irvine, and Steve Clark
Don't get too excited, keep expectations low and hopefully expectations will be exceeded
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 27, 2016, 08:05:44 PM
A step or two back is one thing.  Doing a Leeds or a Portsmouth is rather more.

I want my club to still exist in good shape in 10, 20 and 50 years time.

I wondered how long before someone mentioned Leeds or Portsmouth. When did they go out of business?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 27, 2016, 08:11:35 PM
Just playing devils advocate here; what will the general consensus be if it's not Wanda or some 'Nth richest man in China'. Remember Randy Lerner was a billionaire - didn't do Villa any good.

Would you want a filthy rich owner with little experience running a football club (the likely scenario with Chinese investors, bar Wanda and anyone who already owns a club, albeit very few of those) or someone with a moderate amount of money and experience running a football club (in which case we already have one)?

I know those are the two extremes but there's absolutely no guarantee that a stinking rich owner will be good at running a club.

Money doesn't mean success, and that extends to transfer fees too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on July 27, 2016, 08:18:47 PM
There is always a certain amount of risk involved in life. The new owners whoever they may be or stick with JP. He has done a fantastic job but has probably taken the club as far as he can go. Do we hope for new owners and a the possible risk or JP and Groundhog Day?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 27, 2016, 08:23:51 PM
I've been watching this thread too long....have we signed anyone yet?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 27, 2016, 08:30:53 PM
I've been watching this thread too long....have we signed anyone yet?





Hopefully  either  wang, Jack, li , or ma. Oh you could chuck a robin in too
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 27, 2016, 08:31:34 PM
The issue with this is that anyone who genuinely knows anything about this cannot go into specifics because that would be classed as insider trading if it got into the public domain due to both parties being on the stock market and everyone who is privy to anything has been pre warned about this. You wont get anything more from me than it is "likely" to happen as I aint saft enough to stitch myself up. Anyone giving specifics is either guessing or stupidly putting themselves and there contact at risk of litigation.

I think that explains why it is so closely guarded.


Sorry, I don't think this is quite correct as West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd is a private limited company and its shares are not traded on the stock exchange, so insider trading is not the issues for Peace, might be for the purchaser, but if a large Chinese Conglomerate or Global Company such a small aquisition as £150m would hardly affect their stock price.

I'm sure there are other commercial reasons for keeping quiet
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 27, 2016, 08:34:00 PM
I always remain pessimistic about Albion matters
I remember waiting ages and speculating for weeks about a new manager and we got Alan Irvine, and Steve Clark
Don't get too excited, keep expectations low and hopefully expectations will be exceeded
your right what you say. people getting over excited about billionaires and more than likely and knowing our luck we will get taken over by a chinese restaurant owner from telford lol
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on July 27, 2016, 08:35:13 PM
Like  the Doris Day lyrics
Que Sera Sera

But again to all the IKN poster "Thanks for your posts & patient's, the last two pre seasons must have drove you mad"  ;)  :)

As football fans, especially of this club, we must all be mad, maybe we should all be patients in the mad house!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on July 27, 2016, 08:47:09 PM
what is a farce??

surely you cant mean the club?

No, not the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 08:49:54 PM
There is always a certain amount of risk involved in life. The new owners whoever they may be or stick with JP. He has done a fantastic job but has probably taken the club as far as he can go. Do we hope for new owners and a the possible risk or JP and Groundhog Day?

I think it was this thread where I posted, a few weeks ago, about JP & his relationship with the Football Club. In my opinion, JP recognises that the club matters to the fans.
If you consider some of the fans on this forum are spread far & wide across the globe, but the one thing that pulls them together is primarily, they are rooted to West Bromwich, & West Bromwich Albion is their football club. Dave Bowler's blog a few days ago, illustrated the feelings & emotions associated with this football club a lot better than I can.
I believe Jeremy Peace recognises that, & has said so on more than one occasion, the one time JP forgot that, was when he left the club in Mark Jenkins hands about 3 years ago, & he had to come back & get his hands back on the tiller.

With that in mind, I do not believe JP will sell us down the river, if we are to change ownership, I believe JP will have been very selective in who he does business with, & I expect a smooth transition from JP to the new owners.
Once the new owners are in place, there will be a different set of objectives, but the the one ethos I hope will remain is that West Bromwich Albion matters to the fans
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 27, 2016, 08:52:07 PM
It would be nice to have an owner who, in the window asks a club how much they want for a player, then say ok there you go, and not have one who is still haggling two years down the line.
Laughing stock.
See how long it takes Wolves to sign players now they have a bit of dosh. Some of them we were after too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2016, 09:03:07 PM
It would be nice to have an owner who, in the window asks a club how much they want for a player, then say ok there you go, and not have one who is still haggling two years down the line.
Laughing stock.
See how long it takes Wolves to sign players now they have a bit of dosh. Some of them we were after too.

Pretty sure we'll end up spending more (transfer fees & wages) in this transfer window than Wolves. Our average wages will be £2 million a year per player, Wolves is more likely to be £1 million per year per player.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on July 27, 2016, 09:19:13 PM
It would be nice to have an owner who, in the window asks a club how much they want for a player, then say ok there you go, and not have one who is still haggling two years down the line.
Laughing stock.
See how long it takes Wolves to sign players now they have a bit of dosh. Some of them we were after too.

Wow! Let me know the next time you want to buy something. I'll sell it to you
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 27, 2016, 09:22:20 PM
It would be nice to have an owner who, in the window asks a club how much they want for a player, then say ok there you go, and not have one who is still haggling two years down the line.
Laughing stock.
See how long it takes Wolves to sign players now they have a bit of dosh. Some of them we were after too.
Lerner was trying to sell villa for what feels like 5-6 years, it was only when their stock hit the floor that anyone became mildly interested. On the other hand JP managed to find a buyer, lose it then find another and supposedly broker the deal in two with a significantly smaller pool of buyers. how many people can realistically buy a club for £200 million and support it? We are in points of a percentage here.

Also, as far as I can tell, wolves have made one transfer and that was a 32 year old keeper. They aren't exactly reeling them in.

Finally, people don't just throw their money away. They are smart enough to make it so MOST know how to broker a deal. Only a stupid owner would give the first estimate and then has every right to be taken advantage of. That, would be a laughing stock by buying poor players for overinflated prices then coming dead last, see QPR and Villa for examples in the last 3/4 years
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 27, 2016, 09:23:29 PM
Wow! Let me know the next time you want to buy something. I'll sell it to you
"do you want this penny? It'll cost £5"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 27, 2016, 09:34:49 PM
I think it was this thread where I posted, a few weeks ago, about JP & his relationship with the Football Club. In my opinion, JP recognises that the club matters to the fans.
If you consider some of the fans on this forum are spread far & wide across the globe, but the one thing that pulls them together is primarily, they are rooted to West Bromwich, & West Bromwich Albion is their football club. Dave Bowler's blog a few days ago, illustrated the feelings & emotions associated with this football club a lot better than I can.
I believe Jeremy Peace recognises that, & has said so on more than one occasion, the one time JP forgot that, was when he left the club in Mark Jenkins hands about 3 years ago, & he had to come back & get his hands back on the tiller.

With that in mind, I do not believe JP will sell us down the river, if we are to change ownership, I believe JP will have been very selective in who he does business with, & I expect a smooth transition from JP to the new owners.
Once the new owners are in place, there will be a different set of objectives, but the the one ethos I hope will remain is that West Bromwich Albion matters to the fans

Spot on mate. Word for word, spot on.

This is our club. You know, that right now, none of us have come to support us for money. Nobody has come here and stuck around to see us buy the best players in the world. Nobody pledges an allegiance to West Bromwich Albion, founder members of the football league, winners of domestic honours, revolutionaries in giving black footballers a chance, for the money in their bank accounts. Some came and stayed because they saw The King, Bomber, Laurie, Cyrille and Willie. Some came and stayed because several generations did and Albion is in their blood. We have never been rich, never flashed the cash, never fielded a team worth hundreds of millions. We are all here because we love the club.

It's why some of us hate the defensive football we play right now. It's why some of us can't bare to feel like we are falling behind. It's why people want, ultimately what's best for the club, which for 138 years has existed, thrived, played good football, bad football, bought and sold players that should have stayed here and some that never should have arrived here. We've not had the luxury of being able to flash the cash, but here we all are, loving our club.

That's all we have going into this potential takeover; support. It might not happen, it might happen but not be the owner you wanted. It might go incredibly well and we buy our way to success, but it could just as well be a big failed experiment. Providing we stick to our guns, we remember why we came here and why we stayed, it doesn't matter what happens.

So where we may all differ in opinions on players, managers or Chairmen, remember why you're here; the club and nothing else. What happens, happens. What money is spent, is spent. Whoever comes and goes from here on out, just remember why YOU, and your Dad, your Mom, sisters, brothers, Grandpas and Grandmas got to this point. You're here because of our history, you're here because no other club dragged you in, you're here because even if you see a game differently to 25,000 other people, you're here for what West Bromwich Albion was founded for; to sit back and enjoy the ride. We may be bought out by someone who doesn't get that, who doesn't understand why you're here. But as long as we remain, stepping into this period of complete and utter unknowns doesn't need to be anything other than a page in a story that keeps writing itself.

So whoever steers this ship from here on out, you're here because you made a choice. And that choice wasn't bought or sold by anyone. And it never, ever should be. Untold billions can't buy that. So look after it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 27, 2016, 09:41:07 PM
Wow! Let me know the next time you want to buy something. I'll sell it to you

Well, i wouldn't like to go to supermarket with you, i like to be out in an hour. :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 27, 2016, 09:52:47 PM
Hey Psalm,you almost brought a lump to my throat,it was like an address to us all.
Very well said and I agree with you whole heartedly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on July 27, 2016, 09:56:25 PM
Spot on mate. Word for word, spot on.

This is our club. You know, that right now, none of us have come to support us for money. Nobody has come here and stuck around to see us buy the best players in the world. Nobody pledges an allegiance to West Bromwich Albion, founder members of the football league, winners of domestic honours, revolutionaries in giving black footballers a chance, for the money in their bank accounts. Some came and stayed because they saw The King, Bomber, Laurie, Cyrille and Willie. Some came and stayed because several generations did and Albion is in their blood. We have never been rich, never flashed the cash, never fielded a team worth hundreds of millions. We are all here because we love the club.

It's why some of us hate the defensive football we play right now. It's why some of us can't bare to feel like we are falling behind. It's why people want, ultimately what's best for the club, which for 138 years has existed, thrived, played good football, bad football, bought and sold players that should have stayed here and some that never should have arrived here. We've not had the luxury of being able to flash the cash, but here we all are, loving our club.

That's all we have going into this potential takeover; support. It might not happen, it might happen but not be the owner you wanted. It might go incredibly well and we buy our way to success, but it could just as well be a big failed experiment. Providing we stick to our guns, we remember why we came here and why we stayed, it doesn't matter what happens.

So where we may all differ in opinions on players, managers or Chairmen, remember why you're here; the club and nothing else. What happens, happens. What money is spent, is spent. Whoever comes and goes from here on out, just remember why YOU, and your Dad, your Mom, sisters, brothers, Grandpas and Grandmas got to this point. You're here because of our history, you're here because no other club dragged you in, you're here because even if you see a game differently to 25,000 other people, you're here for what West Bromwich Albion was founded for; to sit back and enjoy the ride. We may be bought out by someone who doesn't get that, who doesn't understand why you're here. But as long as we remain, stepping into this period of complete and utter unknowns doesn't need to be anything other than a page in a story that keeps writing itself.

So whoever steers this ship from here on out, you're here because you made a choice. And that choice wasn't bought or sold by anyone. And it never, ever should be. Untold billions can't buy that. So look after it.
That my friend is a particularly class post.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 27, 2016, 10:10:43 PM
Wow! Let me know the next time you want to buy something. I'll sell it to you
well what happened with the big vic purchase? was he beaten down to 6 million?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Manc Baggie on July 27, 2016, 10:51:44 PM
Well, i wouldn't like to go to supermarket with you, i like to be out in an hour. :)
This 100%
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Rybs on July 27, 2016, 10:55:08 PM
Spot on mate. Word for word, spot on.

This is our club. You know, that right now, none of us have come to support us for money. Nobody has come here and stuck around to see us buy the best players in the world. Nobody pledges an allegiance to West Bromwich Albion, founder members of the football league, winners of domestic honours, revolutionaries in giving black footballers a chance, for the money in their bank accounts. Some came and stayed because they saw The King, Bomber, Laurie, Cyrille and Willie. Some came and stayed because several generations did and Albion is in their blood. We have never been rich, never flashed the cash, never fielded a team worth hundreds of millions. We are all here because we love the club.

It's why some of us hate the defensive football we play right now. It's why some of us can't bare to feel like we are falling behind. It's why people want, ultimately what's best for the club, which for 138 years has existed, thrived, played good football, bad football, bought and sold players that should have stayed here and some that never should have arrived here. We've not had the luxury of being able to flash the cash, but here we all are, loving our club.

That's all we have going into this potential takeover; support. It might not happen, it might happen but not be the owner you wanted. It might go incredibly well and we buy our way to success, but it could just as well be a big failed experiment. Providing we stick to our guns, we remember why we came here and why we stayed, it doesn't matter what happens.

So where we may all differ in opinions on players, managers or Chairmen, remember why you're here; the club and nothing else. What happens, happens. What money is spent, is spent. Whoever comes and goes from here on out, just remember why YOU, and your Dad, your Mom, sisters, brothers, Grandpas and Grandmas got to this point. You're here because of our history, you're here because no other club dragged you in, you're here because even if you see a game differently to 25,000 other people, you're here for what West Bromwich Albion was founded for; to sit back and enjoy the ride. We may be bought out by someone who doesn't get that, who doesn't understand why you're here. But as long as we remain, stepping into this period of complete and utter unknowns doesn't need to be anything other than a page in a story that keeps writing itself.

So whoever steers this ship from here on out, you're here because you made a choice. And that choice wasn't bought or sold by anyone. And it never, ever should be. Untold billions can't buy that. So look after it.

Long time reader and extremely minimal poster on this forum. That is the best post on here I've ever seen.

Here here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 27, 2016, 11:10:09 PM
Spot on mate. Word for word, spot on.

This is our club. You know, that right now, none of us have come to support us for money. Nobody has come here and stuck around to see us buy the best players in the world. Nobody pledges an allegiance to West Bromwich Albion, founder members of the football league, winners of domestic honours, revolutionaries in giving black footballers a chance, for the money in their bank accounts. Some came and stayed because they saw The King, Bomber, Laurie, Cyrille and Willie. Some came and stayed because several generations did and Albion is in their blood. We have never been rich, never flashed the cash, never fielded a team worth hundreds of millions. We are all here because we love the club.

It's why some of us hate the defensive football we play right now. It's why some of us can't bare to feel like we are falling behind. It's why people want, ultimately what's best for the club, which for 138 years has existed, thrived, played good football, bad football, bought and sold players that should have stayed here and some that never should have arrived here. We've not had the luxury of being able to flash the cash, but here we all are, loving our club.

That's all we have going into this potential takeover; support. It might not happen, it might happen but not be the owner you wanted. It might go incredibly well and we buy our way to success, but it could just as well be a big failed experiment. Providing we stick to our guns, we remember why we came here and why we stayed, it doesn't matter what happens.

So where we may all differ in opinions on players, managers or Chairmen, remember why you're here; the club and nothing else. What happens, happens. What money is spent, is spent. Whoever comes and goes from here on out, just remember why YOU, and your Dad, your Mom, sisters, brothers, Grandpas and Grandmas got to this point. You're here because of our history, you're here because no other club dragged you in, you're here because even if you see a game differently to 25,000 other people, you're here for what West Bromwich Albion was founded for; to sit back and enjoy the ride. We may be bought out by someone who doesn't get that, who doesn't understand why you're here. But as long as we remain, stepping into this period of complete and utter unknowns doesn't need to be anything other than a page in a story that keeps writing itself.

So whoever steers this ship from here on out, you're here because you made a choice. And that choice wasn't bought or sold by anyone. And it never, ever should be. Untold billions can't buy that. So look after it.
.  Amen !   The Lords My Shepherd
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Manc Baggie on July 27, 2016, 11:18:22 PM
Spot on mate. Word for word, spot on.

This is our club. You know, that right now, none of us have come to support us for money. Nobody has come here and stuck around to see us buy the best players in the world. Nobody pledges an allegiance to West Bromwich Albion, founder members of the football league, winners of domestic honours, revolutionaries in giving black footballers a chance, for the money in their bank accounts. Some came and stayed because they saw The King, Bomber, Laurie, Cyrille and Willie. Some came and stayed because several generations did and Albion is in their blood. We have never been rich, never flashed the cash, never fielded a team worth hundreds of millions. We are all here because we love the club.

It's why some of us hate the defensive football we play right now. It's why some of us can't bare to feel like we are falling behind. It's why people want, ultimately what's best for the club, which for 138 years has existed, thrived, played good football, bad football, bought and sold players that should have stayed here and some that never should have arrived here. We've not had the luxury of being able to flash the cash, but here we all are, loving our club.

That's all we have going into this potential takeover; support. It might not happen, it might happen but not be the owner you wanted. It might go incredibly well and we buy our way to success, but it could just as well be a big failed experiment. Providing we stick to our guns, we remember why we came here and why we stayed, it doesn't matter what happens.

So where we may all differ in opinions on players, managers or Chairmen, remember why you're here; the club and nothing else. What happens, happens. What money is spent, is spent. Whoever comes and goes from here on out, just remember why YOU, and your Dad, your Mom, sisters, brothers, Grandpas and Grandmas got to this point. You're here because of our history, you're here because no other club dragged you in, you're here because even if you see a game differently to 25,000 other people, you're here for what West Bromwich Albion was founded for; to sit back and enjoy the ride. We may be bought out by someone who doesn't get that, who doesn't understand why you're here. But as long as we remain, stepping into this period of complete and utter unknowns doesn't need to be anything other than a page in a story that keeps writing itself.

So whoever steers this ship from here on out, you're here because you made a choice. And that choice wasn't bought or sold by anyone. And it never, ever should be. Untold billions can't buy that. So look after it.

Quality post.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pureade1 on July 28, 2016, 12:47:42 AM
Spot on mate. Word for word, spot on.

This is our club. You know, that right now, none of us have come to support us for money. Nobody has come here and stuck around to see us buy the best players in the world. Nobody pledges an allegiance to West Bromwich Albion, founder members of the football league, winners of domestic honours, revolutionaries in giving black footballers a chance, for the money in their bank accounts. Some came and stayed because they saw The King, Bomber, Laurie, Cyrille and Willie. Some came and stayed because several generations did and Albion is in their blood. We have never been rich, never flashed the cash, never fielded a team worth hundreds of millions. We are all here because we love the club.

It's why some of us hate the defensive football we play right now. It's why some of us can't bare to feel like we are falling behind. It's why people want, ultimately what's best for the club, which for 138 years has existed, thrived, played good football, bad football, bought and sold players that should have stayed here and some that never should have arrived here. We've not had the luxury of being able to flash the cash, but here we all are, loving our club.

That's all we have going into this potential takeover; support. It might not happen, it might happen but not be the owner you wanted. It might go incredibly well and we buy our way to success, but it could just as well be a big failed experiment. Providing we stick to our guns, we remember why we came here and why we stayed, it doesn't matter what happens.

So where we may all differ in opinions on players, managers or Chairmen, remember why you're here; the club and nothing else. What happens, happens. What money is spent, is spent. Whoever comes and goes from here on out, just remember why YOU, and your Dad, your Mom, sisters, brothers, Grandpas and Grandmas got to this point. You're here because of our history, you're here because no other club dragged you in, you're here because even if you see a game differently to 25,000 other people, you're here for what West Bromwich Albion was founded for; to sit back and enjoy the ride. We may be bought out by someone who doesn't get that, who doesn't understand why you're here. But as long as we remain, stepping into this period of complete and utter unknowns doesn't need to be anything other than a page in a story that keeps writing itself.

So whoever steers this ship from here on out, you're here because you made a choice. And that choice wasn't bought or sold by anyone. And it never, ever should be. Untold billions can't buy that. So look after it.

Long time reader of this forum but rarely post. This is probably the best post I have ever seen on this forum.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on July 28, 2016, 08:05:22 AM
Spot on mate. Word for word, spot on.

This is our club. You know, that right now, none of us have come to support us for money. Nobody has come here and stuck around to see us buy the best players in the world. Nobody pledges an allegiance to West Bromwich Albion, founder members of the football league, winners of domestic honours, revolutionaries in giving black footballers a chance, for the money in their bank accounts. Some came and stayed because they saw The King, Bomber, Laurie, Cyrille and Willie. Some came and stayed because several generations did and Albion is in their blood. We have never been rich, never flashed the cash, never fielded a team worth hundreds of millions. We are all here because we love the club.

It's why some of us hate the defensive football we play right now. It's why some of us can't bare to feel like we are falling behind. It's why people want, ultimately what's best for the club, which for 138 years has existed, thrived, played good football, bad football, bought and sold players that should have stayed here and some that never should have arrived here. We've not had the luxury of being able to flash the cash, but here we all are, loving our club.

That's all we have going into this potential takeover; support. It might not happen, it might happen but not be the owner you wanted. It might go incredibly well and we buy our way to success, but it could just as well be a big failed experiment. Providing we stick to our guns, we remember why we came here and why we stayed, it doesn't matter what happens.

So where we may all differ in opinions on players, managers or Chairmen, remember why you're here; the club and nothing else. What happens, happens. What money is spent, is spent. Whoever comes and goes from here on out, just remember why YOU, and your Dad, your Mom, sisters, brothers, Grandpas and Grandmas got to this point. You're here because of our history, you're here because no other club dragged you in, you're here because even if you see a game differently to 25,000 other people, you're here for what West Bromwich Albion was founded for; to sit back and enjoy the ride. We may be bought out by someone who doesn't get that, who doesn't understand why you're here. But as long as we remain, stepping into this period of complete and utter unknowns doesn't need to be anything other than a page in a story that keeps writing itself.

So whoever steers this ship from here on out, you're here because you made a choice. And that choice wasn't bought or sold by anyone. And it never, ever should be. Untold billions can't buy that. So look after it.

Please could someone with ITK contacts ensure that JP sees this post? Thank you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieVN on July 28, 2016, 08:49:29 AM
Spot on mate. Word for word, spot on.

This is our club. You know, that right now, none of us have come to support us for money. Nobody has come here and stuck around to see us buy the best players in the world. Nobody pledges an allegiance to West Bromwich Albion, founder members of the football league, winners of domestic honours, revolutionaries in giving black footballers a chance, for the money in their bank accounts. Some came and stayed because they saw The King, Bomber, Laurie, Cyrille and Willie. Some came and stayed because several generations did and Albion is in their blood. We have never been rich, never flashed the cash, never fielded a team worth hundreds of millions. We are all here because we love the club.

It's why some of us hate the defensive football we play right now. It's why some of us can't bare to feel like we are falling behind. It's why people want, ultimately what's best for the club, which for 138 years has existed, thrived, played good football, bad football, bought and sold players that should have stayed here and some that never should have arrived here. We've not had the luxury of being able to flash the cash, but here we all are, loving our club.

That's all we have going into this potential takeover; support. It might not happen, it might happen but not be the owner you wanted. It might go incredibly well and we buy our way to success, but it could just as well be a big failed experiment. Providing we stick to our guns, we remember why we came here and why we stayed, it doesn't matter what happens.

So where we may all differ in opinions on players, managers or Chairmen, remember why you're here; the club and nothing else. What happens, happens. What money is spent, is spent. Whoever comes and goes from here on out, just remember why YOU, and your Dad, your Mom, sisters, brothers, Grandpas and Grandmas got to this point. You're here because of our history, you're here because no other club dragged you in, you're here because even if you see a game differently to 25,000 other people, you're here for what West Bromwich Albion was founded for; to sit back and enjoy the ride. We may be bought out by someone who doesn't get that, who doesn't understand why you're here. But as long as we remain, stepping into this period of complete and utter unknowns doesn't need to be anything other than a page in a story that keeps writing itself.

So whoever steers this ship from here on out, you're here because you made a choice. And that choice wasn't bought or sold by anyone. And it never, ever should be. Untold billions can't buy that. So look after it.

Thank you for that. Appreciated! I support this club because of Cyrille and Laurie. I was five years old at the time and we were top of the league. One of my ongoing questions this year has been how many new supporters Leicester have got because of winning the league.

I don't come from the Black Country or the West Midlands. Based on family and where I grew up, my real team should be Manchester United or Spurs. As a kid I had far more contact with both these teams than with West Brom, and as a kid I got teased. Why West Brom? West Brom are sh*t, which is probably why I stuck with this club.

That season we beat Wolves to promotion I was living in Hanoi. I spent Saturday night after Saturday night in an Internet cafe listening to every game live on the radio.

The season of the great escape I was in a bar in Saigon, going crazy, the only Baggies fan out of 200 in the building. Everyone looked at me like I was mad.

And that game where we beat Arsenal 3-2 away under RDM, I was sat in another bar in Vietnam, a huge grin on my face, getting patted on the back by so many people I couldn't count.

It doesn't matter where you come from or why you started supporting this club, or how good or bad our football is, once it's in your blood it's there for life.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 28, 2016, 08:59:18 AM
Can`t put letters into words like PsalmXX111 but that's exactly how I and most of the baggies fans would be thinking its a wonderful post never read better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 28, 2016, 09:14:14 AM
Spot on mate. Word for word, spot on.

This is our club. You know, that right now, none of us have come to support us for money. Nobody has come here and stuck around to see us buy the best players in the world. Nobody pledges an allegiance to West Bromwich Albion, founder members of the football league, winners of domestic honours, revolutionaries in giving black footballers a chance, for the money in their bank accounts. Some came and stayed because they saw The King, Bomber, Laurie, Cyrille and Willie. Some came and stayed because several generations did and Albion is in their blood. We have never been rich, never flashed the cash, never fielded a team worth hundreds of millions. We are all here because we love the club.

It's why some of us hate the defensive football we play right now. It's why some of us can't bare to feel like we are falling behind. It's why people want, ultimately what's best for the club, which for 138 years has existed, thrived, played good football, bad football, bought and sold players that should have stayed here and some that never should have arrived here. We've not had the luxury of being able to flash the cash, but here we all are, loving our club.

That's all we have going into this potential takeover; support. It might not happen, it might happen but not be the owner you wanted. It might go incredibly well and we buy our way to success, but it could just as well be a big failed experiment. Providing we stick to our guns, we remember why we came here and why we stayed, it doesn't matter what happens.

So where we may all differ in opinions on players, managers or Chairmen, remember why you're here; the club and nothing else. What happens, happens. What money is spent, is spent. Whoever comes and goes from here on out, just remember why YOU, and your Dad, your Mom, sisters, brothers, Grandpas and Grandmas got to this point. You're here because of our history, you're here because no other club dragged you in, you're here because even if you see a game differently to 25,000 other people, you're here for what West Bromwich Albion was founded for; to sit back and enjoy the ride. We may be bought out by someone who doesn't get that, who doesn't understand why you're here. But as long as we remain, stepping into this period of complete and utter unknowns doesn't need to be anything other than a page in a story that keeps writing itself.

So whoever steers this ship from here on out, you're here because you made a choice. And that choice wasn't bought or sold by anyone. And it never, ever should be. Untold billions can't buy that. So look after it.

Bostin post PsalmXXIII.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 28, 2016, 09:15:10 AM
This is our club. You know, that right now, none of us have come to support us for money. Nobody has come here and stuck around to see us buy the best players in the world. Nobody pledges an allegiance to West Bromwich Albion, founder members of the football league, winners of domestic honours, revolutionaries in giving black footballers a chance, for the money in their bank accounts. Some came and stayed because they saw The King, Bomber, Laurie, Cyrille and Willie. Some came and stayed because several generations did and Albion is in their blood. We have never been rich, never flashed the cash, never fielded a team worth hundreds of millions. We are all here because we love the club.

It's why some of us hate the defensive football we play right now. It's why some of us can't bare to feel like we are falling behind. It's why people want, ultimately what's best for the club, which for 138 years has existed, thrived, played good football, bad football, bought and sold players that should have stayed here and some that never should have arrived here. We've not had the luxury of being able to flash the cash, but here we all are, loving our club.

That's all we have going into this potential takeover; support. It might not happen, it might happen but not be the owner you wanted. It might go incredibly well and we buy our way to success, but it could just as well be a big failed experiment. Providing we stick to our guns, we remember why we came here and why we stayed, it doesn't matter what happens.

So where we may all differ in opinions on players, managers or Chairmen, remember why you're here; the club and nothing else. What happens, happens. What money is spent, is spent. Whoever comes and goes from here on out, just remember why YOU, and your Dad, your Mom, sisters, brothers, Grandpas and Grandmas got to this point. You're here because of our history, you're here because no other club dragged you in, you're here because even if you see a game differently to 25,000 other people, you're here for what West Bromwich Albion was founded for; to sit back and enjoy the ride. We may be bought out by someone who doesn't get that, who doesn't understand why you're here. But as long as we remain, stepping into this period of complete and utter unknowns doesn't need to be anything other than a page in a story that keeps writing itself.

So whoever steers this ship from here on out, you're here because you made a choice. And that choice wasn't bought or sold by anyone. And it never, ever should be. Untold billions can't buy that. So look after it.
Great stuff, PsalmXXIII. As far as Albion is concerned, whilst the present can be very difficult to take for one reason or another, fans will always have hopes and dreams for the future.

You ought to hop onto a plane to the States and take part in the Democrats' convention!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 28, 2016, 10:04:00 AM
One of my ongoing questions this year has been how many new supporters Leicester have got because of winning the league.

I don't come from the Black Country or the West Midlands. Based on family and where I grew up, my real team should be Manchester United or Spurs. As a kid I




Ironically, I don't originate from the Black Country either, but I do originate from the East Midlands, & spent a lot of my youth watching Leicester City go to Wembley twice & lose twice. They are still the only team in the country to have been to three FA cup finals & lost them all.
I moved to the West Midlands 30 years ago with my job, & had an office near to Black Lake, quite close to Trev the Shed.
Although my own political beliefs tend to be middle of the road, my Dad was staunch Labour, & so I was able to identify strongly with some of the feelings expressed by some of the Black Country people I met.
Inevitably conversations turned to football & particularly the rivalries between WBA & Wolves. One of my work colleagues invited me to join him at the Albion one Saturday, I remember the match well, we sat in the rainbow, played QPR & we went on to draw 1 - 1 after taking the lead through Richard Sneekes, Dennis Smith was Manager.
From that moment on, I was smitten, two seasons later, I bought a season ticket & I've had it ever since.

West Bromwich Albion is my team now, & I know I'll never be a Black Country Lad, but most of you will, at least, put up with me  :)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kanu on July 28, 2016, 10:07:08 AM
Are we really being taken over? And will we see any changes this season? Doesn't look like it and there doesn't seem any truth in stories that the new owners are funding transfers. What transfers? 1 player in and he arrived a year late. Leicester want 10m for Schlupp and we have offered 9m, that's typical Peace, not some billionaire pulling the strings while the paperwork on a takeover is agreed.
And as for Pulis, well a leopard doesn't change his spots. Last summer he said he wanted to buy specialist full backs and bought 2 centre halfs. This summer he's been banging on about specialist full backs again yet we're just linked with centre halfs. He's telling us what we want to hear, fact is he's going to play 4 centre halfs across the back and tough luck if it's boring. What was the point of Hammond? We all knew TP would just buy the type of player he wanted and not listen to any recommendations. I mean why chase Phillips for so long? Macmanamans a better out and out winger anyway but Pulis never plays him, after chasing him and making him one of his first signings.
TP promised us midfield flair yet we all know it'll be Maclean and Gardner starting until at least the end of August. Who doesn't agree that we can't stay up again with them pair as regulars?
Sorry for the doom and gloom but it's all this talk of new owners, better players and a more exciting style to watch coupled with zero activity that is killing me. Hopefully in the next day or so I'll be proved wrong and the new owners will be announced followed by 4 or 5 new players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 28, 2016, 10:08:41 AM
Are we really being taken over? And will we see any changes this season? Doesn't look like it and there doesn't seem any truth in stories that the new owners are funding transfers. What transfers? 1 player in and he arrived a year late. Leicester want 10m for Schlupp and we have offered 9m, that's typical Peace, not some billionaire pulling the strings while the paperwork on a takeover is agreed.
And as for Pulis, well a leopard doesn't change his spots. Last summer he said he wanted to buy specialist full backs and bought 2 centre halfs. This summer he's been banging on about specialist full backs again yet we're just linked with centre halfs. He's telling us what we want to hear, fact is he's going to play 4 centre halfs across the back and tough luck if it's boring. What was the point of Hammond? We all knew TP would just buy the type of player he wanted and not listen to any recommendations. I mean why chase Phillips for so long? Macmanamans a better out and out winger anyway but Pulis never plays him, after chasing him and making him one of his first signings.
TP promised us midfield flair yet we all know it'll be Maclean and Gardner starting until at least the end of August. Who doesn't agree that we can't stay up again with them pair as regulars?
Sorry for the doom and gloom but it's all this talk of new owners, better players and a more exciting style to watch coupled with zero activity that is killing me. Hopefully in the next day or so I'll be proved wrong and the new owners will be announced followed by 4 or 5 new players.


pretty much how i see it mate
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 28, 2016, 10:12:05 AM
Are we really being taken over? And will we see any changes this season? Doesn't look like it and there doesn't seem any truth in stories that the new owners are funding transfers. What transfers? 1 player in and he arrived a year late. Leicester want 10m for Schlupp and we have offered 9m, that's typical Peace, not some billionaire pulling the strings while the paperwork on a takeover is agreed.
And as for Pulis, well a leopard doesn't change his spots. Last summer he said he wanted to buy specialist full backs and bought 2 centre halfs. This summer he's been banging on about specialist full backs again yet we're just linked with centre halfs. He's telling us what we want to hear, fact is he's going to play 4 centre halfs across the back and tough luck if it's boring. What was the point of Hammond? We all knew TP would just buy the type of player he wanted and not listen to any recommendations. I mean why chase Phillips for so long? Macmanamans a better out and out winger anyway but Pulis never plays him, after chasing him and making him one of his first signings.
TP promised us midfield flair yet we all know it'll be Maclean and Gardner starting until at least the end of August. Who doesn't agree that we can't stay up again with them pair as regulars?
Sorry for the doom and gloom but it's all this talk of new owners, better players and a more exciting style to watch coupled with zero activity that is killing me. Hopefully in the next day or so I'll be proved wrong and the new owners will be announced followed by 4 or 5 new players.

Bloody hell I felt depressed until I read that now I feel suicidal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 28, 2016, 10:13:38 AM
Are we really being taken over? And will we see any changes this season? Doesn't look like it and there doesn't seem any truth in stories that the new owners are funding transfers. What transfers? 1 player in and he arrived a year late. Leicester want 10m for Schlupp and we have offered 9m, that's typical Peace, not some billionaire pulling the strings while the paperwork on a takeover is agreed.
And as for Pulis, well a leopard doesn't change his spots. Last summer he said he wanted to buy specialist full backs and bought 2 centre halfs. This summer he's been banging on about specialist full backs again yet we're just linked with centre halfs. He's telling us what we want to hear, fact is he's going to play 4 centre halfs across the back and tough luck if it's boring. What was the point of Hammond? We all knew TP would just buy the type of player he wanted and not listen to any recommendations. I mean why chase Phillips for so long? Macmanamans a better out and out winger anyway but Pulis never plays him, after chasing him and making him one of his first signings.
TP promised us midfield flair yet we all know it'll be Maclean and Gardner starting until at least the end of August. Who doesn't agree that we can't stay up again with them pair as regulars?
Sorry for the doom and gloom but it's all this talk of new owners, better players and a more exciting style to watch coupled with zero activity that is killing me. Hopefully in the next day or so I'll be proved wrong and the new owners will be announced followed by 4 or 5 new players.

A football match is played over 90 minutes, the summer transfer window is played over 62 days, be patient, it's not even half time yet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 28, 2016, 10:15:56 AM
Are we really being taken over? And will we see any changes this season? Doesn't look like it and there doesn't seem any truth in stories that the new owners are funding transfers. What transfers? 1 player in and he arrived a year late. Leicester want 10m for Schlupp and we have offered 9m, that's typical Peace, not some billionaire pulling the strings while the paperwork on a takeover is agreed.
And as for Pulis, well a leopard doesn't change his spots. Last summer he said he wanted to buy specialist full backs and bought 2 centre halfs. This summer he's been banging on about specialist full backs again yet we're just linked with centre halfs. He's telling us what we want to hear, fact is he's going to play 4 centre halfs across the back and tough luck if it's boring. What was the point of Hammond? We all knew TP would just buy the type of player he wanted and not listen to any recommendations. I mean why chase Phillips for so long? Macmanamans a better out and out winger anyway but Pulis never plays him, after chasing him and making him one of his first signings.
TP promised us midfield flair yet we all know it'll be Maclean and Gardner starting until at least the end of August. Who doesn't agree that we can't stay up again with them pair as regulars?
Sorry for the doom and gloom but it's all this talk of new owners, better players and a more exciting style to watch coupled with zero activity that is killing me. Hopefully in the next day or so I'll be proved wrong and the new owners will be announced followed by 4 or 5 new players.


A bit too close to the truth for me - I wont read it again
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 28, 2016, 10:20:23 AM
A football match is played over 90 minutes, the summer transfer window is played over 62 days, be patient, it's not even half time yet.
As our start to the season isn't as tough as it might have been, we need to get some points on the board asap ahead of the more difficult games coming along. Bringing in players once the season has started, particularly if most of them are on Aug 31st, won't help us to achieve that. Let's hope that the new owners understand that even if Peace never has.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 28, 2016, 10:21:34 AM
A football match is played over 90 minutes, the summer transfer window is played over 62 days, be patient, it's not even half time yet.
At least we've had one shot on target. :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 28, 2016, 10:28:26 AM
Are we really being taken over? And will we see any changes this season? Doesn't look like it and there doesn't seem any truth in stories that the new owners are funding transfers. What transfers? 1 player in and he arrived a year late. Leicester want 10m for Schlupp and we have offered 9m, that's typical Peace, not some billionaire pulling the strings while the paperwork on a takeover is agreed.
And as for Pulis, well a leopard doesn't change his spots. Last summer he said he wanted to buy specialist full backs and bought 2 centre halfs. This summer he's been banging on about specialist full backs again yet we're just linked with centre halfs. He's telling us what we want to hear, fact is he's going to play 4 centre halfs across the back and tough luck if it's boring. What was the point of Hammond? We all knew TP would just buy the type of player he wanted and not listen to any recommendations. I mean why chase Phillips for so long? Macmanamans a better out and out winger anyway but Pulis never plays him, after chasing him and making him one of his first signings.
TP promised us midfield flair yet we all know it'll be Maclean and Gardner starting until at least the end of August. Who doesn't agree that we can't stay up again with them pair as regulars?
Sorry for the doom and gloom but it's all this talk of new owners, better players and a more exciting style to watch coupled with zero activity that is killing me. Hopefully in the next day or so I'll be proved wrong and the new owners will be announced followed by 4 or 5 new players.

Do you have evidence that Leicester want exactly £10m for Schlupp?  Perhaps you email Hammond about it.

The club are trying to sign players. There is a takeover going on and I assume the outcome of it happening or not will effect the budget. There is still over a month of the transfer window to go. We need about 4 or 5 players as you say that is easily done.

The moaning about transfers is getting ridiculous. I think the club should run some kind of classes to explain why we can't sign 8 players every July.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 28, 2016, 10:31:24 AM
Sale falls through, go down and the new buyer gets it for 50 million next year
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 28, 2016, 10:33:05 AM
Are we really being taken over? And will we see any changes this season? Doesn't look like it and there doesn't seem any truth in stories that the new owners are funding transfers. What transfers? 1 player in and he arrived a year late. Leicester want 10m for Schlupp and we have offered 9m, that's typical Peace, not some billionaire pulling the strings while the paperwork on a takeover is agreed.
And as for Pulis, well a leopard doesn't change his spots. Last summer he said he wanted to buy specialist full backs and bought 2 centre halfs. This summer he's been banging on about specialist full backs again yet we're just linked with centre halfs.
He's telling us what we want to hear, fact is he's going to play 4 centre halfs across the back and tough luck if it's boring. What was the point of Hammond? We all knew TP would just buy the type of player he wanted and not listen to any recommendations. I mean why chase Phillips for so long? Macmanamans a better out and out winger anyway but Pulis never plays him, after chasing him and making him one of his first signings.
TP promised us midfield flair yet we all know it'll be Maclean and Gardner starting until at least the end of August. Who doesn't agree that we can't stay up again with them pair as regulars?
Sorry for the doom and gloom but it's all this talk of new owners, better players and a more exciting style to watch coupled with zero activity that is killing me. Hopefully in the next day or so I'll be proved wrong and the new owners will be announced followed by 4 or 5 new players.

Regarding Peace; it's the other way round.Offer was in before they priced Schlupp.
Regarding Pulis; we are linked heavily with Taylor from Leeds who is a left back, I'm sure at least one of the overseas players we have been linked with is also a left back. Schlupp can also play as a left back.

McManaman's career stats are worse than Phillips'; less assists, less goals, more red & yellow cards meaning more games missed through suspension.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 28, 2016, 10:34:49 AM
As our start to the season isn't as tough as it might have been, we need to get some points on the board asap ahead of the more difficult games coming along. Bringing in players once the season has started, particularly if most of them are on Aug 31st, won't help us to achieve that. Let's hope that the new owners understand that even if Peace never has.

I'm not sure you can grade matches, they're all tough. Without doubt the strategy will continue to be built on defence & counter attack, but we have Matt Phillips & a rejuvinated James Morrison to add some pace to the counter. That's assuming Saido will be gone.
I don't think we'll be world beaters, but I think we've got enough to hold our own at the moment, I'm not a bit concerned.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 28, 2016, 10:36:05 AM
Do you have evidence that Leicester want exactly £10m for Schlupp?  Perhaps you email Hammond about it.

The club are trying to sign players. There is a takeover going on and I assume the outcome of it happening or not will effect the budget. There is still over a month of the transfer window to go. We need about 4 or 5 players as you say that is easily done.

The moaning about transfers is getting ridiculous. I think the club should run some kind of classes to explain why we can't sign 8 players every July.

So do I
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 28, 2016, 10:36:46 AM
Are we really being taken over? And will we see any changes this season? Doesn't look like it and there doesn't seem any truth in stories that the new owners are funding transfers. What transfers? 1 player in and he arrived a year late. Leicester want 10m for Schlupp and we have offered 9m, that's typical Peace, not some billionaire pulling the strings while the paperwork on a takeover is agreed.
And as for Pulis, well a leopard doesn't change his spots. Last summer he said he wanted to buy specialist full backs and bought 2 centre halfs. This summer he's been banging on about specialist full backs again yet we're just linked with centre halfs. He's telling us what we want to hear, fact is he's going to play 4 centre halfs across the back and tough luck if it's boring. What was the point of Hammond? We all knew TP would just buy the type of player he wanted and not listen to any recommendations. I mean why chase Phillips for so long? Macmanamans a better out and out winger anyway but Pulis never plays him, after chasing him and making him one of his first signings.
TP promised us midfield flair yet we all know it'll be Maclean and Gardner starting until at least the end of August. Who doesn't agree that we can't stay up again with them pair as regulars?
Sorry for the doom and gloom but it's all this talk of new owners, better players and a more exciting style to watch coupled with zero activity that is killing me. Hopefully in the next day or so I'll be proved wrong and the new owners will be announced followed by 4 or 5 new players.
spot on post exactly how i see it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on July 28, 2016, 10:46:50 AM
Are we really being taken over? And will we see any changes this season? Doesn't look like it and there doesn't seem any truth in stories that the new owners are funding transfers. What transfers? 1 player in and he arrived a year late. Leicester want 10m for Schlupp and we have offered 9m, that's typical Peace, not some billionaire pulling the strings while the paperwork on a takeover is agreed.
And as for Pulis, well a leopard doesn't change his spots. Last summer he said he wanted to buy specialist full backs and bought 2 centre halfs. This summer he's been banging on about specialist full backs again yet we're just linked with centre halfs. He's telling us what we want to hear, fact is he's going to play 4 centre halfs across the back and tough luck if it's boring. What was the point of Hammond? We all knew TP would just buy the type of player he wanted and not listen to any recommendations. I mean why chase Phillips for so long? Macmanamans a better out and out winger anyway but Pulis never plays him, after chasing him and making him one of his first signings.
TP promised us midfield flair yet we all know it'll be Maclean and Gardner starting until at least the end of August. Who doesn't agree that we can't stay up again with them pair as regulars?
Sorry for the doom and gloom but it's all this talk of new owners, better players and a more exciting style to watch coupled with zero activity that is killing me. Hopefully in the next day or so I'll be proved wrong and the new owners will be announced followed by 4 or 5 new players.

Blimey! Did you read the post by PsalmXIII? How does that attitude support our club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 28, 2016, 10:53:59 AM
Are we really being taken over? And will we see any changes this season? Doesn't look like it and there doesn't seem any truth in stories that the new owners are funding transfers. What transfers? 1 player in and he arrived a year late. Leicester want 10m for Schlupp and we have offered 9m, that's typical Peace, not some billionaire pulling the strings while the paperwork on a takeover is agreed.
And as for Pulis, well a leopard doesn't change his spots. Last summer he said he wanted to buy specialist full backs and bought 2 centre halfs. This summer he's been banging on about specialist full backs again yet we're just linked with centre halfs. He's telling us what we want to hear, fact is he's going to play 4 centre halfs across the back and tough luck if it's boring. What was the point of Hammond? We all knew TP would just buy the type of player he wanted and not listen to any recommendations. I mean why chase Phillips for so long? Macmanamans a better out and out winger anyway but Pulis never plays him, after chasing him and making him one of his first signings.
TP promised us midfield flair yet we all know it'll be Maclean and Gardner starting until at least the end of August. Who doesn't agree that we can't stay up again with them pair as regulars?
Sorry for the doom and gloom but it's all this talk of new owners, better players and a more exciting style to watch coupled with zero activity that is killing me. Hopefully in the next day or so I'll be proved wrong and the new owners will be announced followed by 4 or 5 new players.

This is exactly why we need new owners. The sooner the better IMO. Hopefully they will bring in a higher profile head coach and make us an attractive proposition for players again. Lets face it we must be close to the bottom of desired clubs for players to join for many reasons.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kanu on July 28, 2016, 10:58:17 AM
Blimey! Did you read the post by PsalmXIII? How does that attitude support our club?

Great post from PsalmXXIII but I'm just saying how I feel today, right now, about the situation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 28, 2016, 11:03:34 AM
Great post from PsalmXXIII but I'm just saying how I feel today, right now, about the situation.


and its most likely how you will feel this time next year
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 28, 2016, 11:17:06 AM
This is exactly why we need new owners. The sooner the better IMO. Hopefully they will bring in a higher profile head coach and make us an attractive proposition for players again. Lets face it we must be close to the bottom of desired clubs for players to join for many reasons.

What would be some, of the many reasons for players not to want to join us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 28, 2016, 11:21:39 AM
What would be some, of the many reasons for players not to want to join us?
style of football has to be top reason
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: adamw1109 on July 28, 2016, 11:21:39 AM
Blimey! Did you read the post by PsalmXIII? How does that attitude support our club?

Was very true words from PsalmXIII but the frustration is also there, I guess that's the joys of being a baggie!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 28, 2016, 11:24:21 AM
What would be some, of the many reasons for players not to want to join us?

1. We are likely to be in a relegation battle.
2. Style of play.
3. Relegation flex down of wages.
4. Location.
5. Club lacking ambition.

Wages don't seem to be too much of an issue these days as it appears we are willing to pay well. Am I also right in thinking that some agents won't deal with JP (and vice versa). If so this obviously narrows our target pool.

With new owners and new head coach I believe that all of the above (except for location) would change.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on July 28, 2016, 11:24:42 AM
I dread to think what the reaction would be like should this takeover not happen.  :o

Think it might tip some of these fans over the edge by the look of some of the comments/posts on here and other social medias.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: adamw1109 on July 28, 2016, 11:25:11 AM
What would be some, of the many reasons for players not to want to join us?

The fact pulis will sign players and either do his best to not play them, or play them out of the preferred position... which he has proven last season.  Great guy, does a job, kept us up somehow but it's got to the point where the premier league doesn't interest me anymore.... I'd rather pay for my season ticket and watch us in a lower league playing entertaining football to be quite honest

Let's hope this takeover happens soon and we see some changes for the better of the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 28, 2016, 11:42:00 AM
Blimey! Did you read the post by PsalmXIII? How does that attitude support our club?
in fairness they are for most fans both true just opposite side of the coin . Cause and effect if you like
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 28, 2016, 11:49:36 AM
For Christ Sake stop all the doom and gloom lets be positive about this, not many clubs have bought players yet and if they have they`ve  paid over the top prices.  Things will change players will be bought in the takeover will happen so lets be positive and happy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Xpresso on July 28, 2016, 11:53:55 AM
Quote
The fact pulis will sign players and either do his best to not play them, or play them out of the preferred position...

So Pulis bashing invades this post now! When will people give it a rest!

The only player he signed and didn't play was Chester, who he signed to play as a right-sided centre-back or at right back but couldn't get in the team because of the form of Craig Dawson, our most consistent player last season, and the evergreen GMac. But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of a good dose of prejudice.

Signing the right players will never be easy for us, even if we end up under pots-of-money foreign ownership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: adamw1109 on July 28, 2016, 11:56:46 AM
So Pulis bashing invades this post now! When will people give it a rest!

The only player he signed and didn't play was Chester, who he signed to play as a right-sided centre-back or at right back but couldn't get in the team because of the form of Craig Dawson, our most consistent player last season, and the evergreen GMac. But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of a good dose of prejudice.

Signing the right players will never be easy for us, even if we end up under pots-of-money foreign ownership.

No not at all, I answered a question. It's a forum for people's opinions, not 'pulis bashing' just saying it how it is
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 28, 2016, 11:59:17 AM
So Pulis bashing invades this post now! When will people give it a rest!

The only player he signed and didn't play was Chester, who he signed to play as a right-sided centre-back or at right back but couldn't get in the team because of the form of Craig Dawson, our most consistent player last season, and the evergreen GMac. But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of a good dose of prejudice.

Signing the right players will never be easy for us, even if we end up under pots-of-money foreign ownership.

You can add Lambert, Mcmanaman, Gnabry, Sandro, Pritchard to that list.

Signing players would become easier for us with new owners and a new head coach IMO.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 28, 2016, 12:00:31 PM
No not at all, I answered a question. It's a forum for people's opinions, not 'pulis bashing' just saying it how it is

Is 'Pulis defending' the opposite of 'Pulis bashing'? If so I'm sure he'd like that term! :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: adamw1109 on July 28, 2016, 12:02:55 PM
Is 'Pulis defending' the opposite of 'Pulis bashing'? If so I'm sure he'd like that term! :D

Haha! I genuinely like pulis... but I think in terms of players we would like to see and the style of football, the club would benefit from a different head coach, will be interesting if and when the takeover is complete what happens with pulis.... will they keep him or get rid
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 28, 2016, 12:08:53 PM
Quote
1. We are likely to be in a relegation battle.

Not convinced we will  be

Quote
2. Style of play.

Surely TP will bring players in to suit his style of play, a player not suited, would surely be wasted wouldn't he?

Quote
3. Relegation flex down of wages.

I don't think we'll be relegated, but any player who kicks against flex down can't be very confident in his own ability, or that of his potential team mates, & therefore I wouldn't want him.

Quote
4. Location.
What's wrong with the location? There are some fabulous places to live & bring up young children within an hour of the training ground

Quote
5. Club lacking ambition.
I think the fact that JP has made the club available for sale shows that it does have ambition. Whether it's ambition aligns with yours remains to be seen, but we can't accuse the club of lacking in ambition

Quote
Wages don't seem to be too much of an issue these days as it appears we are willing to pay well. Am I also right in thinking that some agents won't deal with JP (and vice versa). If so this obviously narrows our target pool.

With new owners and new head coach I believe that all of the above (except for location) would change.

It's alleged that agents find JP difficult to deal with, but that means he's looking after the interests of the football club, so that doesn't bother me in the slightest. As I understand it both the club & players use agents these days, so his reputation can't be that bad.

I think it would be wrong to assume that any change of ownership, would necessarily result in a change of playing style.Football is a results driven business, & providing the results are positive, playing style will be a secondary consideration
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 28, 2016, 12:09:20 PM
If I was a player today I would consider the current set up ,training facilities,stadium,current players etc and think with my help this could be a great team.
You know with a positive attitude ,wages are good ,live in Cotswolds an hour away,this club has an ambition to be top half to eighth,then who knows.
But hey that's me.
I do get a bit fed up with the negativity.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 28, 2016, 12:27:20 PM
If I was a player today I would consider the current set up ,training facilities,stadium,current players etc and think with my help this could be a great team.
You know with a positive attitude ,wages are good ,live in Cotswolds an hour away,this club has an ambition to be top half to eighth,then who knows.
But hey that's me.
I do get a bit fed up with the negativity.

On the location thing, I'm surprised we don't pick up more of the Cheshire lot (ex l'pool / everton /man u / man c), we are the next prem club past Stoke coming south and the only players i can think of recently from that part of the world are Fletch, Lambert, Vic, or am i missing something?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 28, 2016, 12:30:41 PM
so back to the Takeover, no new rumours and the olds ones, where have they gone
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 28, 2016, 12:34:14 PM
Not convinced we will  be
We flirted with it last year and without a few quality signings we will again this season. We only finished 6 points above the zone don't forget and were in relegation form at the end of last season.

Surely TP will bring players in to suit his style of play, a player not suited, would surely be wasted wouldn't he?
Whilst I agree with you it certainly narrows the field even further. I expect to see more limited workhorses join us.

I don't think we'll be relegated, but any player who kicks against flex down can't be very confident in his own ability, or that of his potential team mates, & therefore I wouldn't want him.
I disagree. One or two players may not be able to singlehandedly turn us around. Besides players will go for the best deal for them as we all would in our own careers. A choice between a wage flex down or not I know which I would choose.

What's wrong with the location? There are some fabulous places to live & bring up young children within an hour of the training ground
Totally agree with you. I love the area but other areas (London) will always have a bigger pull.

I think the fact that JP has made the club available for sale shows that it does have ambition. Whether it's ambition aligns with yours remains to be seen, but we can't accuse the club of lacking in ambition

If we are sold then we will move forwards IMO. Whilst JP is still in charge we will only ever be looking for survival. Maybe not enough to whet the appetite of some players?

It's alleged that agents find JP difficult to deal with, but that means he's looking after the interests of the football club, so that doesn't bother me in the slightest. As I understand it both the club & players use agents these days, so his reputation can't be that bad.

I think it would be wrong to assume that any change of ownership, would necessarily result in a change of playing style.Football is a results drive business, & providing the results are positive, playing style will be a secondary consideration
Maybe not but results (look at the last 10 games especially) have been poor regardless of style. Something may have to change.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 28, 2016, 12:53:38 PM
TBH I'm sick of it now and all the negativity and spouted dross that goes with it.
I would have been happier to not have known that the club was up for sale and then an announcement made od 5th August (or whenever) to the effect of guess what? We've been taken over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on July 28, 2016, 01:01:29 PM
TBH I'm sick of it now and all the negativity and spouted dross that goes with it.
I would have been happier to not have known that the club was up for sale and then an announcement made od 5th August (or whenever) to the effect of guess what? We've been taken over.

The club hasn't said anything?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 28, 2016, 01:07:25 PM
Whether we get taken over or not is not really important....what is important is that we have only signed one player! We had an average squad last season that needed changing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 28, 2016, 02:04:47 PM
The club hasn't said anything?

Peace said: “I entered into an exclusivity arrangement in good faith after agreeing terms for the sale but it is now clear to me that this potential purchaser is unable to fulfil the terms of that agreement at this time.”
 ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on July 28, 2016, 02:09:01 PM
Peace said: “I entered into an exclusivity arrangement in good faith after agreeing terms for the sale but it is now clear to me that this potential purchaser is unable to fulfil the terms of that agreement at this time.”
 ::)

When did Peace say this?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 28, 2016, 02:11:23 PM
Peace said: “I entered into an exclusivity arrangement in good faith after agreeing terms for the sale but it is now clear to me that this potential purchaser is unable to fulfil the terms of that agreement at this time.”
 ::)
That was last year wasn't it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 28, 2016, 02:14:22 PM
Kin hell, deja Vu !

please make it stop, I'm drifting into some sort of dystopian alternative universe here !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on July 28, 2016, 02:15:24 PM
Peace said: “I entered into an exclusivity arrangement in good faith after agreeing terms for the sale but it is now clear to me that this potential purchaser is unable to fulfil the terms of that agreement at this time.”
 ::)
If that was this time last year what has got to do with the situation now? I'm lost?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 28, 2016, 02:16:45 PM
Peace said: “I entered into an exclusivity arrangement in good faith after agreeing terms for the sale but it is now clear to me that this potential purchaser is unable to fulfil the terms of that agreement at this time.”
 ::)

That was a year ago!!

What was he supposed to do...sell the club anyway just to please the fans that want him out at any cost?



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on July 28, 2016, 02:18:07 PM
That was a year ago!!

What was he supposed to do...sell the club anyway just to please the fans that want him out at any cost?

Exactly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 28, 2016, 02:31:05 PM
That was a year ago!!

What was he supposed to do...sell the club anyway just to please the fans that want him out at any cost?
Nothing of the sort.
My reply was to ABaggie who had stated that the club had made no comment regarding a take over.
That post was to show that (though a year old) the club had commented on the club being up for sale.

Calm down boys  ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on July 28, 2016, 02:35:19 PM
Nothing of the sort.
My reply was to ABaggie who had stated that the club had made no comment regarding a take over.
That post was to show that (though a year old) the club had commented on the club being up for sale.

Calm down boys  ???

Yeah but ABaggie was talking about the possible takeover NOW
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 28, 2016, 02:37:42 PM
Yeah but ABaggie was talking about the possible takeover NOW

ok I rest my case then
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 28, 2016, 02:50:05 PM
Nothing of the sort.
My reply was to ABaggie who had stated that the club had made no comment regarding a take over.
That post was to show that (though a year old) the club had commented on the club being up for sale.

Calm down boys  ???
Well quoting that without saying its a year old is trolling your own fans to be fair mate
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: east-stand-nick on July 28, 2016, 02:50:52 PM
ok I rest my case then

What was your case, out of interest?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 28, 2016, 03:27:51 PM
I think the fact that JP has made the club available for sale shows that it does have ambition. Whether it's ambition aligns with yours remains to be seen, but we can't accuse the club of lacking in ambition
I don't understand your Earth logic I'm afraid. The only ambition demonstrated by Peace putting the club up for sale is his ambition to make an absolute shedload of money out of the club having personally put next to no money into it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 28, 2016, 03:36:28 PM
I don't understand your Earth logic I'm afraid. The only ambition demonstrated by Peace putting the club up for sale is his ambition to make an absolute shedload of money out of the club having personally put next to no money into it.

That's business. He made an investment and it's paid off big time. The fact that he is leaving us in much better shape financially and onfield, is enough for me to say thanks Jezza, you deserve every single penny you get for diligently running our club which is one of very few that have no debt. We should be thanking him, despite his prudence and definite reluctance in the transfer market to over commit. Sure we've missed out on a few players and let a few go at inopportune times, but overall you cannot knock the job he has done. If you do, then you are naive (not saying you are personally, just in general). £7 million + is hardly next to no money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 28, 2016, 03:48:18 PM
That's business. He made an investment and it's paid off big time. The fact that he is leaving us in much better shape financially and onfield, is enough for me to say thanks Jezza, you deserve every single penny you get for diligently running our club which is one of very few that have no debt. We should be thanking him, despite his prudence and definite reluctance in the transfer market to over commit. Sure we've missed out on a few players and let a few go at inopportune times, but overall you cannot knock the job he has done. If you do, then you are naive (not saying you are personally, just in general). £7 million + is hardly next to no money.
Is £7m+ what he paid when he first bought shares in the club then because, as I understand it, everything that's happened since then has been paid for by the club in one way or another.

I'm quite cynical about it though, particularly at present, due to having been one of those who wasn't financially able to buy additional shares a few years back, so mine were compulsorily purchased for less than they were worth given the valuation of the club not long after.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 28, 2016, 04:19:12 PM
A football match is played over 90 minutes, the summer transfer window is played over 62 days, be patient, it's not even half time yet.

We say this every year.
The simple facts are this. At the end of the season a manager should know the strengths and weaknesses of a side. He should know what players he wants to keep, those he wants to get rid of and he would also have a good idea of who he would like, how much they would be likely to cost, how much he is allowed to spend, and if the transfer from the club in question is a non starter or not.
So when the season ends, we should have an in and out list and as soon as the window starts we should be ready to do business.
 But it never works like that, weeks pass and then we hear we are eyeing someone, or tracking someone. FFS these players should have been feckin eyed tracked and sounded out last year.
We have all these names banded about and we sign none of them, we watch as they sign for Stoke, Watford Palace etc, and at the same time our own players become unsettled due to lack of team strengthening.

... and then someone comes on and says, relax, we have until the end of August to sign players.

Taxes, death and Jeremy Peaces non activity in the transfer window, life's three certainties.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 28, 2016, 04:23:14 PM
Is £7m+ what he paid when he first bought shares in the club then because, as I understand it, everything that's happened since then has been paid for by the club in one way or another.

I'm quite cynical about it though, particularly at present, due to having been one of those who wasn't financially able to buy additional shares a few years back, so mine were compulsorily purchased for less than they were worth given the valuation of the club not long after.


Sorry mate, sounds like pure envy, if you loved the club that much you perhaps you could have made more effort to buy the shares, you would now be jumping for joy based on Peaces' good custody of the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 28, 2016, 04:25:54 PM
We say this every year.
The simple facts are this. At the end of the season a manager should know the strengths and weaknesses of a side. He should know what players he wants to keep, those he wants to get rid of and he would also have a good idea of who he would like, how much they would be likely to cost, how much he is allowed to spend, and if the transfer from the club in question is a non starter or not.
So when the season ends, we should have an in and out list and as soon as the window starts we should be ready to do business.
 But it never works like that, weeks pass and then we hear we are eyeing someone, or tracking someone. FFS these players should have been feckin eyed tracked and sounded out last year.
We have all these names banded about and we sign none of them, we watch as they sign for Stoke, Watford Palace etc, and at the same time our own players become unsettled due to lack of team strengthening.

... and then someone comes on and says, relax, we have until the end of August to sign players.

Taxes, death and Jeremy Peaces non activity in the transfer window, life's three certainties.

Sad but so true! 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 28, 2016, 04:27:30 PM
We say this every year.
The simple facts are this. At the end of the season a manager should know the strengths and weaknesses of a side. He should know what players he wants to keep, those he wants to get rid of and he would also have a good idea of who he would like, how much they would be likely to cost, how much he is allowed to spend, and if the transfer from the club in question is a non starter or not.
So when the season ends, we should have an in and out list and as soon as the window starts we should be ready to do business.
 But it never works like that, weeks pass and then we hear we are eyeing someone, or tracking someone. FFS these players should have been feckin eyed tracked and sounded out last year.
We have all these names banded about and we sign none of them, we watch as they sign for Stoke, Watford Palace etc, and at the same time our own players become unsettled due to lack of team strengthening.

... and then someone comes on and says, relax, we have until the end of August to sign players.

Taxes, death and Jeremy Peaces non activity in the transfer window, life's three certainties.

Quite often I find I agree with your views, and some of what you say here is true. My problem with the incessant criticism of Peace is this. You don't have to look very far to find three clubs that have all had involvement of allegedly wealthy owners, far wealthier than JP. They have all had big money thrown at transfers, they have all move quickly in many, many windows to sign their top targets, they have all strengthened quickly and efficiently.

And they've all been relegated, and they are all in the Championship, and they would all happily swap places with Albion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 28, 2016, 04:39:07 PM
Do you think that Peace never meant to sell the club but let us think he would to put us off moaning about the way he runs it.
Pepe Mel, Irvine, Garlic, the Odemwingie farce, the Berahino farce, the big Vic panic buy, players bought on the strength of tv scouting...zuberbuhler? and gambon, and paying millions for Ideye Brown Chester and Macmanaman with little to show for it.
What a smoke screen the take over might be!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 28, 2016, 04:42:01 PM
Sorry mate, sounds like pure envy, if you loved the club that much you perhaps you could have made more effort to buy the shares, you would now be jumping for joy based on Peaces' good custody of the club
Not being able to buy the additional shares was a financial thing, so love of the club had nothing to do with it. Thanks for the patronising post though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 28, 2016, 05:26:46 PM
Sorry mate, sounds like pure envy, if you loved the club that much you perhaps you could have made more effort to buy the shares, you would now be jumping for joy based on Peaces' good custody of the club

I just don't get this. 

Peace has proven to be a clever businessman.  He invested 2.5m, got all his money back (and some) during the various share issues, and the football club paid for his new shares - via loans they paid back themselves.  Then he'll walk away with between 150-200m.  So let's be clear, the football club has benefited, but its all been done in JP's interests.

I have no idea about Worcs's status or intentions, but essentially he bought shares when the club needed the money and he had some spare, and when he didn't have the financial capacity to buy more shares he was shafted by a total undervaluation of the shares that were a compulsory sale... and he's criticised for this?

Peace is a complete one off in the PL era.  Players have walked away from football with plenty of money, but I can't think of another chairman that has left a football club with a 200m profit.  He's done very well for HIMSELF.  Thanks JP, but I don't understand why he has so many champions on here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 28, 2016, 05:32:01 PM
Not being able to buy the additional shares was a financial thing, so love of the club had nothing to do with it. Thanks for the patronising post though.

my pleasure, a financial thing is something you could have done something about though isn't it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 28, 2016, 05:42:28 PM
my pleasure, a financial thing is something you could have done something about though isn't it?

You aren't Philip Green are you?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 28, 2016, 05:56:44 PM
When are we going to get back to chatting about the potential takeover. Any news anyone ??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 28, 2016, 06:01:00 PM
You aren't Philip Green are you?

Nice one  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 28, 2016, 06:02:09 PM
Thanks baggie 65 just thinking that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 28, 2016, 06:07:13 PM
When are we going to get back to chatting about the potential takeover. Any news anyone ??
nothing to add, not even a new name thrown into the ring today.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 28, 2016, 06:18:21 PM
I'm fed up of this thread being derailed by rubbish and letty nonsense.

Anything deemed off topic will be removed by the mod team, so until we get some more news, I dare say this thread will be a lot quiter
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 28, 2016, 06:19:13 PM
When are we going to get back to chatting about the potential takeover. Any news anyone ??
gone very quiet no new links or rumours seems all is very quiet as usual at albion..no new stories in papers either
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 28, 2016, 07:44:26 PM
So what time is the press conference called for tomorrow ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 28, 2016, 07:49:08 PM
I don't understand your Earth logic I'm afraid. The only ambition demonstrated by Peace putting the club up for sale is his ambition to make an absolute shedload of money out of the club having personally put next to no money into it.

If that's your attempt at sarcasm, that too has gone over my head I'm afraid.

It would be very easy for JP to continue to run the club in it's current format. As I understand it, he takes a salary of around £1.5 million a year out of the football club, with a few tweaks on asset costs, normally paid for out of additional TV revenue, he could retain our position as a Premier League Club for the forseable future. Thus maintaining his £1.5 million a year salary.
He has openly said that he has taken he club as far as he can, or at least as far as he is prepared to, & the club can only progress with an injection of cash. JP has chosen to do that by selling the club. My understanding again though, is that JP understands that the club matters to the fans, & he will be very selective when chosing the eventual buyer, to ensure that the buyer also understands that the club matters to the fans.

You seem to have a real issue with the way JP has accumulated his wealth, but it's a standard economic practice, its called "return on investment or ROI for short
Let me try & illustrate what JP has done:

Lets say you buy a Mars bar for 80p & sell it the next day for £1, you've made 20p profit. The same day you buy another Mars bar for 80p & sell it  the next day for £1, you've now made 40p profit, if you do that for another 2 days you've made 80p profit, so now you can buy 2 Mars bars, & after 2 more days you can buy 3 Mars bars & so on. I can't be bothered to do the whole calculation, but in effect your 80p investment could give you an annual return of something like £140.
If mulliganstired is around he might be able to explain it better than me. That's all JP has done, nothing underhand, it's how pension schemes work.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 28, 2016, 08:05:45 PM
I read somewhere that news would be released tomorrow, wonder if this'll be true then...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 28, 2016, 08:13:51 PM
I read somewhere that news would be released tomorrow, wonder if this'll be true then...
.  I also thought I read that ,but there's been that much said about this subject I've forgot . Also someone said last night " Don't shoot the messenger ,but had heard something was to be released tomorrow"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 28, 2016, 08:18:14 PM
.  I also thought I read that ,but there's been that much said about this subject I've forgot . Also someone said last night " Don't shoot the messenger ,but had heard something was to be released tomorrow"

I maybe wrong but I'm sure that was Baggie96 and he said it would be out by mid next week. I can't recall anyone mentioning tomorrow.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on July 28, 2016, 08:19:13 PM
I also read the other day, that news of takeover will be in the papers Friday. Even went as far as saying they will reveal who the new owners will be
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 28, 2016, 08:22:19 PM
You did hear don`t shoot the messenger deal done will be in the tabloids on Friday it came from Newbaggie  hope he`s right but we will see that many rummers  we will see. What we do know is if it`s happening and I believe it is it will be announced when both parties are good and ready.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 28, 2016, 08:23:50 PM
Please don't shoot the messenger ,but iv just been told the deal has been done and will be in the papers on Friday.Please don't ask me to ask my source because I don't want to get him into any  trouble with his employers.
.   There you have it . don't know how reliable this is ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 28, 2016, 08:24:33 PM
I think no news is good news this time round. Peace got burnt last year and for all we know a number of bids could be in for players and we are trying to close those deals as well as conclude the sale of the club. He's a smart business man, we all know that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 28, 2016, 08:28:45 PM
I hope tomorrow isn't deadline day, where they say no sale agreed,back to business. Hopefully we will hear one way or another.
What time would it be? 11 ish?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 28, 2016, 08:31:17 PM
I hope tomorrow isn't deadline day, where they say no sale agreed,back to business. Hopefully we will hear one way or another.
What time would it be? 11 ish?

We are long past a period for having deadline dates etc. There's no need to worry about that. Wether or not anything comes out in the press overnight remains to be seen
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 28, 2016, 08:32:43 PM
Garlic and Hammond to stay, peace and Jenkins to go. Jenkins actually already gone. Should be done by mid next week.
.   This is the other Quote , think this ones more feasible ,but would like tomorrow or over the weekend , need to start getting players on board now .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 28, 2016, 08:34:51 PM
We are long past a period for having deadline dates etc. There's no need to worry about that. Wether or not anything comes out in the press overnight remains to be seen
.  That sounds promising 38.Nice one!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 28, 2016, 08:47:52 PM
We are long past a period for having deadline dates etc. There's no need to worry about that. Wether or not anything comes out in the press overnight remains to be seen

I won't be far from a radio for the next few days then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 28, 2016, 08:52:31 PM
We are long past a period for having deadline dates etc. There's no need to worry about that. Wether or not anything comes out in the press overnight remains to be seen

Thanks 38, patience and hopefully something to look forward too
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 28, 2016, 09:05:08 PM
What I've just said is nothing new to what I've been saying the past fortnight or so. Like I said yesterday the FA are doing their checks now. People just need to be patient now. I'll be in the same boat as everyone else tomorrow when it comes to clicking through the media to see if it's been mentioned in the press
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 28, 2016, 09:14:18 PM
I think all of us,whatever our thoughts about JP or a new owner just want a conclusion one way or another, and hopefully get on with the running of the club.

I think it was interesting that Pulis said he hadn't discussed a new contract as things were happening at the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on July 28, 2016, 09:17:07 PM
Quite obvious that it's the new owners who will decide on his future but they will play safe for a year
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 28, 2016, 09:27:09 PM
This will be the biggest change at our club for 20 years or maybe more depending on the strategy of the new owners.  I'd like the new owners to communicate a clear long term plan for us because I think Peace achieved great things things with us in a short space of time ( pushed from championship relegation fodder with 15k fans to mid table
Premier league with 26k fans) but I don't think he had the means, ideas or maybe both to push us on further past premier league safety on the football side or a solid 26k a week core local fanbase.

The key thing as Psalm and Baggiejohn have so eloquently said, is to keep our soul during whatever journey we go on next. The Lord is my shepherd . Amen
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 28, 2016, 09:27:17 PM
Quite obvious that it's the new owners who will decide on his future but they will play safe for a year

I'm not the world's biggest Pulis fan, but, for the sake of Stability i hope so
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on July 28, 2016, 09:39:29 PM
This will be the biggest change at our club for 20 years or maybe more depending on the strategy of the new owners.  I'd like the new owners to communicate a clear long term plan for us because I think Peace achieved great things things with us in a short space of time ( pushed from championship relegation fodder with 15k fans to mid table
Premier league with 26k fans) but I don't think he had the means, ideas or maybe both to push us on further past premier league safety on the football side or a solid 26k a week core local fanbase.

The key thing as Psalm and Baggiejohn have so eloquently said, is to keep our soul during whatever journey we go on next. The Lord is my shepherd . Amen

JP took over when we was in the premiership so hardly championship relegation fodder. He will sell to whoever offers the money that he wants simple as that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 28, 2016, 11:10:12 PM
It would be very easy for JP to continue to run the club in it's current format. As I understand it, he takes a salary of around £1.5 million a year out of the football club, with a few tweaks on asset costs, normally paid for out of additional TV revenue, he could retain our position as a Premier League Club for the forseable future. Thus maintaining his £1.5 million a year salary.
Why would he want to do that when he can ride off into the sunset with an embarrassment of riches?

He has openly said that he has taken he club as far as he can, or at least as far as he is prepared to, & the club can only progress with an injection of cash. JP has chosen to do that by selling the club.
Yeah right, his altruism knows no bounds.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 28, 2016, 11:19:41 PM
I'd like to point out that Peace has only taken that salary for three years, no longer. And it's less than other chairmen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on July 28, 2016, 11:26:17 PM
About the same time he started to look to sell the club, any ideas on that one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 29, 2016, 12:07:16 AM
About the same time he started to look to sell the club, any ideas on that one.

Same time he came to have 88% of the shares of the club. Before that he was on just over £130,000 according to our accounts. Let's face it, anyone who could sell Albion for £150-200m deserves a salary that high for working damn near miracles.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 29, 2016, 12:47:44 AM
Is £7m+ what he paid when he first bought shares in the club then because, as I understand it, everything that's happened since then has been paid for by the club in one way or another.

I'm quite cynical about it though, particularly at present, due to having been one of those who wasn't financially able to buy additional shares a few years back, so mine were compulsorily purchased for less than they were worth given the valuation of the club not long after.

There is nothing to be cynical about though. He has done a fantastic job in turning WBA into a £150m-£200m club, when our local rivals are being sold for a fraction of the cost. Peace deserves credit. I haven't always agreed with his decisions and lack of ambition in the transfer over the years, but the results have proved me to be wrong. He had a long term plan and executed it brilliantly to the benefit of himself and WBA. I don't begrudge him one penny as he has always acted in the best interest of the club which is evidenced by our finances. Hopefully the new owners keep him involved in some capacity as he is one of the shrewdest businessmen in the game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 29, 2016, 03:42:47 AM
There is nothing to be cynical about though. He has done a fantastic job in turning WBA into a £150m-£200m club, when our local rivals are being sold for a fraction of the cost. Peace deserves credit. I haven't always agreed with his decisions and lack of ambition in the transfer over the years, but the results have proved me to be wrong. He had a long term plan and executed it brilliantly to the benefit of himself and WBA. I don't begrudge him one penny as he has always acted in the best interest of the club which is evidenced by our finances. Hopefully the new owners keep him involved in some capacity as he is one of the shrewdest businessmen in the game.

That sums up the situation nicely
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 29, 2016, 06:22:59 AM
JP took over when we was in the premiership so hardly championship relegation fodder. He will sell to whoever offers the money that he wants simple as that.

Peace has driven me barmy at times but you can't deny the facts.....

99/00 Peace joined the board we finished 21 st in the championship, 1 place above relegation, average attendances were 14,584. Our turnover was less than 10m.

Peace became chairmen in 2002, the first season since 1986 we'd got promoted to the premier league with average gates of 20,000.

He took ownership in2005.

We 've been in the premier league consecutively since 2008, have average gates of around 24/ 25,0000 and are one of the 20 richest clubs in the World based on turnover of 96m ( it was 10m when Peace took over).

I watched us from the 80s onwards and Peace ain't done too badly for the club in my book  !!. Yes he's done we'll out of it himself but that's life, he took the risk, had the vision and leaves us with a great ground, academy, staff , financial health and with our identity intact.

If the new owners develop us as much whilst keeping out identity , I'd be very happy - to match Peace's achievements though, the new owners would have to establish us in the champions league regularly within 10 years and get average gates of 40,000.........?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 29, 2016, 06:43:04 AM
Peace has driven me barmy at times but you can't deny the facts.....

99/00 Peace joined the board we finished 21 st in the championship, 1 place above relegation, average attendances were 14,584. Our turnover was less than 10m.

Peace became chairmen in 2002, the first season since 1986 we'd got promoted to the premier league with average gates of 20,000.

He took ownership in2005.

We 've been in the premier league consecutively since 2008, have average gates of around 24/ 25,0000 and are one of the 20 richest clubs in the World based on turnover of 96m ( it was 10m when Peace took over).

I watched us from the 80s onwards and Peace ain't done too badly for the club in my book  !!. Yes he's done we'll out of it himself but that's life, he took the risk, had the vision and leaves us with a great ground, academy, staff , financial health and with our identity intact.

If the new owners develop us as much whilst keeping out identity , I'd be very happy - to match Peace's achievements though, the new owners would have to establish us in the champions league regularly within 10 years and get average gates of 40,000.........?

Completely with you on this. I just don't understand the vilification toward him from the average fan. To an extent I get why people who lost out on shares feel aggrieved, but that's how business works, winners and losers (and distasteful as it may be, because of the money washing through it, football is a business).

Peace has overseen a massive transition during his time. The club is solid, making money, has vastly improved training and academy facilities (did we even have a training ground in 2002?) and we are in the Prem. Like I said elsewhere, other clubs locally are envious of what we have.

Whatever the future holds for Albion the contribution that JP has made, in developing our unfashionable club, based in an economically depressed part of he country, has been phenomenal. And yes, he's taken a salary, and yes, he's going to make a massive profit, but you know what? I don't begrudge him, because without him we might well be down among the dead men too.

I just hope the next lot of owners do half as well in moving us on from here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sarniabaggie on July 29, 2016, 07:11:32 AM
Completely with you on this. I just don't understand the vilification toward him from the average fan. To an extent I get why people who lost out on shares feel aggrieved, but that's how business works, winners and losers (and distasteful as it may be, because of the money washing through it, football is a business).

Peace has overseen a massive transition during his time. The club is solid, making money, has vastly improved training and academy facilities (did we even have a training ground in 2002?) and we are in the Prem. Like I said elsewhere, other clubs locally are envious of what we have.

Whatever the future holds for Albion the contribution that JP has made, in developing our unfashionable club, based in an economically depressed part of he country, has been phenomenal. And yes, he's taken a salary, and yes, he's going to make a massive profit, but you know what? I don't begrudge him, because without him we might well be down among the dead men too.

I just hope the next lot of owners do half as well in moving us on from here.


Could not agree more. It astonishes me that others cannot see how the club has grown and stabilised under Jeremy Peace.

Just look where the Villa and Wolves are, with all the money thrown at them by wealthy owners, both are in the league below. Have they bought big so far with their new wealthy owners, with a view to get out of the Championship? No, not yet at least.  How long before the new owners get bored with no promotion? Then what eh!

I will raise a glass to JP when/if he relinquishes his control of West Bromwich Albion.  I too do not begrudge him the money he has made whilst at the same time taking the club forward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 29, 2016, 07:48:13 AM
pointless accusing peace of being greedy, isn't it the same thing we all want with the club being more successful and to win thin things. he could have paid himself any salary he wanted at the end of the day .
lets just hope the new owners if it does change hands take the club to the next level. if they do half the job peace has done id be happy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 29, 2016, 07:58:15 AM
Why would he want to do that when he can ride off into the sunset with an embarrassment of riches?

Because he can have a salary of £1.5 million a year for the next x years & still ride off into the sunset with an embarrassment of riches.
If he lived on £500k a year & saved the rest, after 10 years, he could buy a very nice Sunseeker yacht for £10 million, even less with the discount from Wanda


Quote
Yeah right, his altruism knows no bounds.....

I think you & I are on opposite sides of the spectrum when it comes to JP, probably no point in continuing the debate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 29, 2016, 08:52:23 AM
Peace has driven me barmy at times but you can't deny the facts.....

99/00 Peace joined the board we finished 21 st in the championship, 1 place above relegation, average attendances were 14,584. Our turnover was less than 10m.

Peace became chairmen in 2002, the first season since 1986 we'd got promoted to the premier league with average gates of 20,000.

He took ownership in2005.

We 've been in the premier league consecutively since 2008, have average gates of around 24/ 25,0000 and are one of the 20 richest clubs in the World based on turnover of 96m ( it was 10m when Peace took over).

I watched us from the 80s onwards and Peace ain't done too badly for the club in my book  !!. Yes he's done we'll out of it himself but that's life, he took the risk, had the vision and leaves us with a great ground, academy, staff , financial health and with our identity intact.

If the new owners develop us as much whilst keeping out identity , I'd be very happy - to match Peace's achievements though, the new owners would have to establish us in the champions league regularly within 10 years and get average gates of 40,000.........?
Can't argue with any of that.
I was devastated when we got relegated in 86, but thought we would bounce straight back. We didn't. When we went down to the old 3rd Division I thought that was it, I honestly thought I would never see us play in the top flight again. But, here we are in our 7th season and, whatever you think of Peace, you cannot deny the massive part he has played in that.
The shares deal was the only blot on his copybook for me as this hurt real fans but, as some have said that is business, as is making money. If he was walking away with £200m and leaving us in the rubbish then fair enough, but he is leaving us in the strongest position we have been in for 40 years so good luck to him.
I just hope the next owners are as committed to maintaining the security of the club as he has been and, if they sell the club for £500m in 10 years, having moved us on to another level, then we will all be happy surely?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 29, 2016, 09:42:26 AM
I too think JP has done a good job, however, I will judge any new owners not on how they improve turnover but on how we play and progress towards winning "stuff".
We the fans have had one chumpionship title to reward us since 1968.
48 years is a "long" time, I'm 57 and want to see us lift a trophy again before i pop my Blue and white clogs
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on July 29, 2016, 09:58:48 AM
I am assuming nothing has come out in the press ,so I feel I must apologise to you guys for giving you false info,i did so in good faith .I am unable to contact the chap that told me it would be out today.He has told me stuff before which was accurate and which I've never posted.The first time I do it looks like its untrue.Once  again please accept my apologies.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 29, 2016, 10:00:50 AM
Peace is only looking after number one and if stories coming out of the transfer market are to be believed then I'd say the take over is dead in the water. Leon Best and an over the hill Spanish fullback sounds like the targets Ebenezer would be in for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwick2 on July 29, 2016, 10:04:40 AM
Here goes another day of refreshing this forum to see if there is any news
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 29, 2016, 10:05:18 AM
Peace is only looking after number one and if stories coming out of the transfer market are to be believed then I'd say the take over is dead in the water. Leon Best and an over the hill Spanish fullback sounds like the targets Ebenezer would be in for.

Oh ye of little faith  ::) A garbage story from some rag online and you're down in the dumps.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 29, 2016, 10:07:30 AM
Peace is only looking after number one and if stories coming out of the transfer market are to be believed then I'd say the take over is dead in the water. Leon Best and an over the hill Spanish fullback sounds like the targets Ebenezer would be in for.

Apart from the fact that we are currently pursuing a 10m+ deal for a current Premier League Champion. The takeover is agreed and barring things falling apart at the last minute, will be announced soon, but don't let the facts get in the way of the anti-Peace agenda.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 29, 2016, 10:08:12 AM
I am assuming nothing has come out in the press ,so I feel I must apologise to you guys for giving you false info,i did so in good faith .I am unable to contact the chap that told me it would be out today.He has told me stuff before which was accurate and which iv never posted.The first time I do it looks like its untrue.Once  again please accept my apologies.

Don't worry, I don't think anyone is ITK, speculation and rumours are rife and ten a penny. Yes we all get frustrated and would like to know.

The only thing for certain is that Peace wants to sell the club - when? is "a moveable feast" how much? - we may never know

So back on your heads, tea break over, move on to another topic  8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 29, 2016, 10:14:59 AM
There is nothing to be cynical about though. He has done a fantastic job in turning WBA into a £150m-£200m club, when our local rivals are being sold for a fraction of the cost. Peace deserves credit. I haven't always agreed with his decisions and lack of ambition in the transfer over the years, but the results have proved me to be wrong. He had a long term plan and executed it brilliantly to the benefit of himself and WBA. I don't begrudge him one penny as he has always acted in the best interest of the club which is evidenced by our finances. Hopefully the new owners keep him involved in some capacity as he is one of the shrewdest businessmen in the game.

Amen to that, if this was USA he would be lauded as a very succesful businessman, here in the West Midlands where hard work and creativity was the norm, now we have people who deride sucess and the way the club has grown both in assets and status
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on July 29, 2016, 10:19:10 AM
Apart from the fact that we are currently pursuing a 10m+ deal for a current Premier League Champion. The takeover is agreed and barring things falling apart at the last minute, will be announced soon, but don't let the facts get in the way of the anti-Peace agenda.

Plus we are after a £15m international striker, have been looking at a covereted midfielder from Spain who some of the spanish big boys are also looking at, oh yes and are also in discussions with Brighton and Leeds about young defenders who's cost will approach or be over £10m.... But hey dont let even more actual activity get in the way of the peace bashing brigade........ So I make that around 40-50m in deals we are disussing when you include singing on, agents fees and wages....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 29, 2016, 10:22:08 AM
I won't begrudge JP anything. He has worked his balls off to get in the position he has found himself in.

People who begrudge hard work and business nous that leads to success are usually just envious and jealous that they have not got the capacity to achieve such things.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 29, 2016, 10:25:36 AM
Apart from the fact that we are currently pursuing a 10m+ deal for a current Premier League Champion. The takeover is agreed and barring things falling apart at the last minute, will be announced soon, but don't let the facts get in the way of the anti-Peace agenda.
the facts are that we have bought in one player and released three , no one has got any idea who our mystery buyer is even though some people on here says it's days away from being announced and I wouldn't trust  any owner of the Albion because their only out to feather their own nests
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 29, 2016, 10:29:28 AM
Plus we are after a £15m international striker, have been looking at a covereted midfielder from Spain who some of the spanish big boys are also looking at, oh yes and are also in discussions with Brighton and Leeds about young defenders who's cost will approach or be over £10m.... But hey dont let even more actual activity get in the way of the peace bashing brigade........ So I make that around 40-50m in deals we are disussing when you include singing on, agents fees and wages....

All of the above is just press speculation nothing more. Let's wait and see who we do actually end up with. I'll be surprised if it is any of the above.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 29, 2016, 10:49:10 AM
Quote
Peace is only looking after number one and if stories coming out of the transfer market are to be believed then I'd say the take over is dead in the water. Leon Best and an over the hill Spanish fullback sounds like the targets Ebenezer would be in for.]



If you follow Matt Wilson on Twitter you'll find out what Leon Best is doing. And no I'm not going to provide a link, go & look for yourself
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 29, 2016, 10:54:19 AM


If you follow Matt Wilson on Twitter you'll find out what Leon Best is doing. And no I'm not going to provide a link, go & look for yorself

Don't and won't do twitter, thanks !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 29, 2016, 11:02:54 AM
the facts are that we have bought in one player and released three , no one has got any idea who our mystery buyer is even though some people on here says it's days away from being announced and I wouldn't trust  any owner of the Albion because their only out to feather their own nests
Sorry mate but I just don't get this. If JP was only out to feather his own nest how come we are in our strongest position for 40 years?
I'm not his biggest fan, his shrewdness, stubbornness and tightfistedness can be incredibly frustrating, but you cannot disagree that he is leaving us on a very strong footing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 29, 2016, 11:04:39 AM
Matt Wilson is saying that basically we have offered Best somewhere to train as he is a free agent and that's all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 29, 2016, 11:07:21 AM
Sorry mate but I just don't get this. If JP was only out to feather his own nest how come we are in our strongest position for 40 years?
I'm not his biggest fan, his shrewdness, stubbornness and tightfistedness can be incredibly frustrating, but you cannot disagree that he is leaving us on a very strong footing.

Because some people seem to think that if you have a job and run a business like a football team, you should do so as a volunteer, taking no monetary gain from the endeavour. You know, because people support the club you owe them something?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 29, 2016, 11:11:48 AM
I've got an old I-pod with a broken menu button, which basically means I have no control over what it plays, it just takes it's pick from 8500 tracks. Just switched it on and first tune was........ The Liquidator  :) It's a sign, I tell you!! ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: don1thedon on July 29, 2016, 11:47:10 AM
Ha, if nothing else, that post made me smile! Thanks  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 29, 2016, 12:01:38 PM
the facts are that we have bought in one player and released three , no one has got any idea who our mystery buyer is even though some people on here says it's days away from being announced and I wouldn't trust  any owner of the Albion because their only out to feather their own nests

Which we have had to do to free up wages to bring in better quality replacements. Are you really classing Anichebe's and Lindergaards departures as a negative to support your stance? I wouldn't have minded Sess staying on but Phillips is an improvement on him, and the other two were not up to standard. You also haven't acknowledged that we are only about half way through the transfer window. You don't have to trust any WBA owner simply as they do not owe you anything. You are a supporter, not a board member or investor.

Regarding the takeover, the club are doing the right thing by keeping quiet. People have got an idea on who is buying us, there was a big clue in the media yesterday but granted it's not gospel. But it never was going to be thanks to a little thing known as a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

The most important fact to remember though, is that we are one of the top 20 richest club in the world. Just trust that fact if nothing else.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 29, 2016, 12:13:19 PM
Which we have had to do to free up wages to bring in better quality replacements. Are you really classing Anichebe's and Lindergaards departures as a negative to support your stance? I wouldn't have minded Sess staying on but Phillips is an improvement on him, and the other two were not up to standard. You also haven't acknowledged that we are only about half way through the transfer window. You don't have to trust any WBA owner simply as they do not owe you anything. You are a supporter, not a board member or investor.

Regarding the takeover, the club are doing the right thing by keeping quiet. People have got an idea on who is buying us, there was a big clue in the media yesterday but granted it's not gospel. But it never was going to be thanks to a little thing known as a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

The most important fact to remember though, is that we are one of the top 20 richest club in the world. Just trust that fact if nothing else.

I appreciate your common sense stand against the "Peace can do no good" mob and your knowledgeable comments about acquisitions, however, if you are to be taken seriously then to state that we are in the top 20 richest clubs in the world is very questionable. I would imagine a few Spanish, Italian clubs plus PSG would raise a doubt or two
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 29, 2016, 12:23:46 PM
I appreciate your common sense stand against the "Peace can do no good" mob and your knowledgeable comments about acquisitions, however, if you are to be taken seriously then to state that we are in the top 20 richest clubs in the world is very questionable. I would imagine a few Spanish, Italian clubs plus PSG would raise a diubt or two

With the increase media revenue, we will be top 20 when the next list is released. We're only just outside based on last seasons income. Our actual position isn't that important though, as the point is, we are in a far better position now than before Peace took over and we are growing each year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 29, 2016, 12:25:20 PM
we are in the top 30 richest clubs but not the top 20.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-west-brom-named-10765579
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 29, 2016, 12:27:54 PM
we are in the top 30 richest clubs but not the top 20.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-west-brom-named-10765579

That's based on the lower turnover before the new media deal kicks in. We will be in the top 20 when the next list is released. Top 20 or Top 30, either way you look at it highlights the point that JP has done an amazing job. Especially when you consider we are one a few clubs without debt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 29, 2016, 12:29:07 PM
I won't begrudge JP anything. He has worked his balls off to get in the position he has found himself in.

People who begrudge hard work and business nous that leads to success are usually just envious and jealous that they have not got the capacity to achieve such things.

I think after he's gone the club should erect a statue of him. It would be a fitting monument to the man whose vision and determination has elevated from a has been also ran club into the only West Midlands team in the top flight, with state of the art training facilities, a blossoming academy and cash in the bank.

The bloke's a bloody genius.

I'll say it again. Look at our neighbours. All of them arguably bigger fan bases, all of them have had multi-millionaire/billionaire owners, and where are they? Nowhere.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 29, 2016, 12:31:55 PM
With the increase media revenue, we will be top 20 when the next list is released. We're only just outside based on last seasons income. Our actual position isn't that important though, as the point is, we are in a far better position now than before Peace took over and we are growing each year.

You don't need to sell that to me, i already agreed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 29, 2016, 12:35:47 PM
That's based on the lower turnover before the new media deal kicks in. We will be in the top 20 when the next list is released. Top 20 or Top 30, either way you look at it highlights the point that JP has done an amazing job. Especially when you consider we are one a few clubs without debt.

To be pedantic you said "are" now you say "will", you don't need to react merely advising you of fact v spin to support your normal sensible posts
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on July 29, 2016, 12:39:09 PM
Back to the takeover for a minute - it's all gone a bit quiet again. With the season not far away now we do look a bit short of resources. I am hoping that over the next 3-5 days we will finally get an indication of what's happening and if/when the takeover will be completed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 29, 2016, 12:40:25 PM
I think after he's gone the club should erect a statue of him. It would be a fitting monument to the man whose vision and determination has elevated from a has been also ran club into the only West Midlands team in the top flight, with state of the art training facilities, a blossoming academy and cash in the bank.

The bloke's a bloody genius.

I'll say it again. Look at our neighbours. All of them arguably bigger fan bases, all of them have had multi-millionaire/billionaire owners, and where are they? Nowhere.

To be fair, the noses / Vile and dogheads demise isn't down to JP is it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 29, 2016, 12:47:37 PM
To be fair, the noses / Vile and dogheads demise isn't down to JP is it?

No, but a fair reflection of how we've done compared to bankrolled clubs. You may think he's tight, not ambitious and stubborn but in the grand scheme of things we were batting out of our league and instead of buckling, made us bat in the right league. It irks me that he's slated for not pushing us to new levels but it's better than trying to, failing and bailing. A safe pair of hands. Those who worry where we'll end up under his continuesd stewardship can't then think s takeover from an absolute unknown will be rainbows and butterflies. Peace has proved he can stabilise and cautiously lift our club, a billionaire Chinese businessman hasn't. I'm more worried that fans have put a lot of faith in someone who may have money but no footballing sense.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 29, 2016, 12:48:06 PM
Which we have had to do to free up wages to bring in better quality replacements. Are you really classing Anichebe's and Lindergaards departures as a negative to support your stance? I wouldn't have minded Sess staying on but Phillips is an improvement on him, and the other two were not up to standard. You also haven't acknowledged that we are only about half way through the transfer window. You don't have to trust any WBA owner simply as they do not owe you anything. You are a supporter, not a board member or investor.

Regarding the takeover, the club are doing the right thing by keeping quiet. People have got an idea on who is buying us, there was a big clue in the media yesterday but granted it's not gospel. But it never was going to be thanks to a little thing known as a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

The most important fact to remember though, is that we are one of the top 20 richest club in the world. Just trust that fact if nothing else.

Can you expand on where this hint there was a big clue in the media yesterday may have been please,

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 29, 2016, 01:11:36 PM
To be fair, the noses / Vile and dogheads demise isn't down to JP is it?

If you could just direct me to where I suggested JP had played a role in the demise of those clubs?

Of course, I didn't do so, and while I'm a fan of his by and large but even I don't think his powers are that great nor his influence that wide!

What I am suggesting though I'd, as has been stated, is that compared to those and other bank rolled clubs Peace has done an outstanding job in taking Albion to where we are now, and he has done it through craft, intelligence, application, hard work, knowledge, good decision making skills and do on. Not by just chucking millions at the club.

There are a couple of points. Firstly, we still seem to gave a band of anti-Peace fans for whom the fact that he gets paid to do a full time job renders him unacceptable to them. Why? Please someone explain why Peace shouldn't get money for his work?

Next thing is why, despite all the evidence to the contrary (Villa, Wolves, Blues, Leeds, Portsmouth and so on) do some supporters think the only way to build is to buy and buy big?

Moving on, and back to Peace, note that he paid what, £7m for the club.? (And yes, before you start, I know he borrowed it and then paid it back from club profits, that's what's known as standard business practice). Now it's apparently worth £200m, so that's a proportional increase in value of around 2,857% That's not bad is it really, considering that while that value has been accruing the club has been spending on training facilities and the academy?

So, to someone else's point, is it just jealousy that riles people so much? I know that I am the same age more or less as JP, and by God I wish that for every £7 I had back when he bought the club I had £200 now. But I'm not smart enough and he is, so fair play to him and thanks for making our club respectable again.

Anyway, that was a bit rambling, but you get my drift.

He didn't send Villa down, or Wolves, but he's kept us up. Without him we'd be being knocked out now to some ultra dodgy outfit for 50 pence and a big orange like our chums down the road.

I just hope that in ten years time whoever owns Albion has continued what he started, and built in similar proportion. Then we really will be playing with the big boys again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 29, 2016, 01:19:49 PM
Can you expand on where this hint there was a big clue in the media yesterday may have been please,

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-takeover-rumour-evergrande-11670257

"With the Hawthorns club thought to be in the latter stages of a takeover, the Evergrande Group, headed up by multi-billionaire Xu Jiayin, has been named as a potential buyer.

A source from the Far East contacted the Mail about the link, which has also been discussed on West Brom forums.

The group has strong ties with the region, as the owner of the main football club in Guangzhou – Birmingham’s sister city in China."

Not saying that this is gospel, but this is a very strong indicator that we are very close.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on July 29, 2016, 01:20:47 PM
so what's happening then?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 29, 2016, 01:22:04 PM
so what's happening then?

Nothing in the public arena yet, but something will be released soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on July 29, 2016, 01:25:31 PM
I believe that with just a little bit more investment in players, we could have been further up the Premier League and out of the annual relegation issues. In that respect, I have been critical of Jeremy Peace. It has been pointed out that he has put the Club on a very sound footing, six consecutive years in the division and no debt and, therefore, has steered WBA into a very good position. He has, as we all know, made a lot of money out of the Club and will profit hugely if, and it is a very big 'if', the Club is sold. For Mr Peace to profit so well over the years of his tenure, he had to have the welfare of the Club at heart, one requires the other. Which brings me back to my original point, for relatively little more spend on the team, we could be in an even better league position. So, although he will have left the Club in a far better situation when he leaves (whenever that may be) than when he arrived, the prime motivation has been increasing his wealth, not as a Club benefactor. While he is in charge, nothing much will change; survival in the Premier League at minimal cost will be the objective for every season. On balance, I think I would go for the stability that Jeremy Peace brings over the lottery situation that would come about with the arrival of some 'fly-by'night' foreign owner. Stability over uncertainty, I think we have heard that argument quite recently in another context! Just look at the mess that the choice of uncertainty has taken us over that issue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 29, 2016, 01:28:03 PM
If you could just direct me to where I suggested JP had played a role in the demise of those clubs?

Of course, I didn't do so, and while I'm a fan of his by and large but even I don't think his powers are that great nor his influence that wide!

What I am suggesting though I'd, as has been stated, is that compared to those and other bank rolled clubs Peace has done an outstanding job in taking Albion to where we are now, and he has done it through craft, intelligence, application, hard work, knowledge, good decision making skills and do on. Not by just chucking millions at the club.

There are a couple of points. Firstly, we still seem to gave a band of anti-Peace fans for whom the fact that he gets paid to do a full time job renders him unacceptable to them. Why? Please someone explain why Peace shouldn't get money for his work?

Next thing is why, despite all the evidence to the contrary (Villa, Wolves, Blues, Leeds, Portsmouth and so on) do some supporters think the only way to build is to buy and buy big?

Moving on, and back to Peace, note that he paid what, £7m for the club.? (And yes, before you start, I know he borrowed it and then paid it back from club profits, that's what's known as standard business practice). Now it's apparently worth £200m, so that's a proportional increase in value of around 2,857% That's not bad is it really, considering that while that value has been accruing the club has been spending on training facilities and the academy?

So, to someone else's point, is it just jealousy that riles people so much? I know that I am the same age more or less as JP, and by God I wish that for every £7 I had back when he bought the club I had £200 now. But I'm not smart enough and he is, so fair play to him and thanks for making our club respectable again.

Anyway, that was a bit rambling, but you get my drift.

He didn't send Villa down, or Wolves, but he's kept us up. Without him we'd be being knocked out now to some ultra dodgy outfit for 50 pence and a big orange like our chums down the road.

I just hope that in ten years time whoever owns Albion has continued what he started, and built in similar proportion. Then we really will be playing with the big boys again.

Unless you have some understanding of how business works, JP is the big bad wolf. There are some who you can debate with on the topic, & some you can't.
It's a bit like me years ago trying to learn Latin, I just never got it. Put a maths problem in front of me, & I'd probably have the answer quicker than most. It's horses for courses I'm afraid, we just have to accept that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 29, 2016, 01:37:52 PM
I believe that with just a little bit more investment in players, we could have been further up the Premier League and out of the annual relegation issues. In that respect, I have been critical of Jeremy Peace. It has been pointed out that he has put the Club on a very sound footing, six consecutive years in the division and no debt and, therefore, has steered WBA into a very good position. He has, as we all know, made a lot of money out of the Club and will profit hugely if, and it is a very big 'if', the Club is sold. For Mr Peace to profit so well over the years of his tenure, he had to have the welfare of the Club at heart, one requires the other. Which brings me back to my original point, for relatively little more spend on the team, we could be in an even better league position. So, although he will have left the Club in a far better situation when he leaves (whenever that may be) than when he arrived, the prime motivation has been increasing his wealth, not as a Club benefactor. While he is in charge, nothing much will change; survival in the Premier League at minimal cost will be the objective for every season. On balance, I think I would go for the stability that Jeremy Peace brings over the lottery situation that would come about with the arrival of some 'fly-by'night' foreign owner. Stability over uncertainty, I think we have heard that argument quite recently in another context! Just look at the mess that the choice of uncertainty has taken us over that issue.


Tin hat time methinks  :)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LoxleyBaggie on July 29, 2016, 02:06:47 PM
Unless you have some understanding of how business works, JP is the big bad wolf. There are some who you can debate with on the topic, & some you can't.
It's a bit like me years ago trying to learn Latin, I just never got it. Put a maths problem in front of me, & I'd probably have the answer quicker than most. It's horses for courses I'm afraid, we just have to accept that.

Sic semper erat, et sic semper erit :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 29, 2016, 02:07:12 PM
I believe that with just a little bit more investment in players, we could have been further up the Premier League and out of the annual relegation issues. In that respect, I have been critical of Jeremy Peace. It has been pointed out that he has put the Club on a very sound footing, six consecutive years in the division and no debt and, therefore, has steered WBA into a very good position. He has, as we all know, made a lot of money out of the Club and will profit hugely if, and it is a very big 'if', the Club is sold. For Mr Peace to profit so well over the years of his tenure, he had to have the welfare of the Club at heart, one requires the other. Which brings me back to my original point, for relatively little more spend on the team, we could be in an even better league position. So, although he will have left the Club in a far better situation when he leaves (whenever that may be) than when he arrived, the prime motivation has been increasing his wealth, not as a Club benefactor. While he is in charge, nothing much will change; survival in the Premier League at minimal cost will be the objective for every season. On balance, I think I would go for the stability that Jeremy Peace brings over the lottery situation that would come about with the arrival of some 'fly-by'night' foreign owner. Stability over uncertainty, I think we have heard that argument quite recently in another context! Just look at the mess that the choice of uncertainty has taken us over that issue.

It's hard to argue with the majority of those points. JP has been a cautious trader when it comes to buying players and has made mistakes over the years (selling Earnshaw and not replacing him springs to mind), but I think we can all agree that he has done a fantastic job in getting us into the position we're in. I'll be glad to see the back of him because he has taken us as far as he can.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 29, 2016, 02:14:45 PM
Sic semper erat, et sic semper erit :)
It was always like, and thus it will always be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 29, 2016, 02:25:43 PM
If you could just direct me to where I suggested JP had played a role in the demise of those clubs?

Of course, I didn't do so, and while I'm a fan of his by and large but even I don't think his powers are that great nor his influence that wide!

What I am suggesting though I'd, as has been stated, is that compared to those and other bank rolled clubs Peace has done an outstanding job in taking Albion to where we are now, and he has done it through craft, intelligence, application, hard work, knowledge, good decision making skills and do on. Not by just chucking millions at the club.

There are a couple of points. Firstly, we still seem to gave a band of anti-Peace fans for whom the fact that he gets paid to do a full time job renders him unacceptable to them. Why? Please someone explain why Peace shouldn't get money for his work?

Next thing is why, despite all the evidence to the contrary (Villa, Wolves, Blues, Leeds, Portsmouth and so on) do some supporters think the only way to build is to buy and buy big?

Moving on, and back to Peace, note that he paid what, £7m for the club.? (And yes, before you start, I know he borrowed it and then paid it back from club profits, that's what's known as standard business practice). Now it's apparently worth £200m, so that's a proportional increase in value of around 2,857% That's not bad is it really, considering that while that value has been accruing the club has been spending on training facilities and the academy?

So, to someone else's point, is it just jealousy that riles people so much? I know that I am the same age more or less as JP, and by God I wish that for every £7 I had back when he bought the club I had £200 now. But I'm not smart enough and he is, so fair play to him and thanks for making our club respectable again.

Anyway, that was a bit rambling, but you get my drift.

He didn't send Villa down, or Wolves, but he's kept us up. Without him we'd be being knocked out now to some ultra dodgy outfit for 50 pence and a big orange like our chums down the road.

I just hope that in ten years time whoever owns Albion has continued what he started, and built in similar proportion. Then we really will be playing with the big boys again.

the man whose vision and determination has elevated from a has been also ran club into the only West Midlands team in the top flight,

We are the only club in prem because they have been screwed up.not because of JP vision and determination.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 29, 2016, 02:35:30 PM
the man whose vision and determination has elevated from a has been also ran club into the only West Midlands team in the top flight,

We are the only club in prem because they have been screwed up.not because of JP vision and determination.

You are deliberately no, mischievously misconstruing my words. Nowhere there does it say he is responsible for the demise of the others.

Sorry, but you are simply wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 29, 2016, 02:38:38 PM
That's based on the lower turnover before the new media deal kicks in. We will be in the top 20 when the next list is released. Top 20 or Top 30, either way you look at it highlights the point that JP has done an amazing job. Especially when you consider we are one a few clubs without debt.

That's the true measure of a football club... Turnover.

Would we be in the top 50 football teams for actually playing football?  I doubt, we'd make the top 100.  All go and do a lap of honour around Jeremy' wallet...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 29, 2016, 02:39:38 PM
Is this take over turning into a damp squib?
Again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 29, 2016, 02:39:41 PM
You are deliberately no, mischievously misconstruing my words. Nowhere there does it say he is responsible for the demise of the others.

Sorry, but you are simply wrong.

Your not the first to tell me that :-)

i'll stop it now ;-)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 29, 2016, 02:40:48 PM
You are deliberately no, mischievously misconstruing my words. Nowhere there does it say he is responsible for the demise of the others.

Sorry, but you are simply wrong.

Replace not with and, then you're both correct

Quote
the man whose vision and determination has elevated from a has been also ran club into the only West Midlands team in the top flight,

We are the only club in prem because they have been screwed up.not and because of JP vision and determination.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 29, 2016, 02:47:45 PM
Is this take over turning into a damp squib?
Again.


my guess is yes pretty much. i aint loosing any sleep though until Best becomes Rondons replacement that is
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 29, 2016, 02:48:49 PM
They will not be lacking ambition, given what they have achieved in Asia.

From the Evergrande website,

To revitalize Chinese football, Eevergrande has applied itself to the football industry since 2010, and set up the Eevergrande Football Club. The club has become the most successful and most influential professional football club in Asia, and has paid taxes of 1.258 billion yuan to the government.
Since its inception, the club has developed and implemented the first five-year plan – “to win the AFC Champions League and be the king of Asia”, and has implemented the professional mode of the world’s top club in terms of philosophy, management and culture.
From 2011 to 2015, it won the Chinese Super League champion for five consecutive years; in 2013, it won the AFC Champions League, achieving the goal ahead of schedule; in 2015, it won the AFC championship again, becoming Asia’s first team that has won the AFC championship for twice since restructuring of the AFC Champions League in 2009; and it has been named by AFC as “Asia’s best club”, becoming a leader in the industry.
In the past five years, the club has garnered 10 champions in the AFC Champions League, the Chinese Super League, the FA Cup, the Super Cup and other tournament, setting a new record in China’s football history. At present, it is ranking first in Asia and thirtieth in the world at its peak, becoming a representative of the Chinese football and the Asian football.
In 2015, the club formulated and implemented its second five-year plan–“international convergence and world class”, indicating that it will upgrade in all aspects such as development strategy, business philosophy, operating management, coach team, level of foreign aid, youth training system, logistical support, etc., be fully aligned with the world's top clubs and among the world’s top 20 clubs.
On November 6, 2015, Eevergrande Taobao Football Club (Stock Code:834338) was listed, becoming the “first football stock of Asia”.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 29, 2016, 02:51:43 PM
That's the true measure of a football club... Turnover.

Would we be in the top 50 football teams for actually playing football?  I doubt, we'd make the top 100.  All go and do a lap of honour around Jeremy' wallet...

It depends on what the criteria of that list was, but frankly it's irrelevant. Because as you say, the true measure of a club is it's finances, and the fact is, JP has turned us into a successful club both on and off the pitch. With a more ambitious approach from wealthier opponents, we can push forward and not have to rely on the stifling tactics we have adopted thus far under Pulis.

Managers come and go and their replacements are determined by how much we can spend, so I don't really see what playing style has to to with this as it is not a permanent characteristic of the clubs identity, it's more of a phase. Our playing style is another debate for another thread from where I am sitting.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 29, 2016, 02:53:51 PM
Is this take over turning into a damp squib?
Again.

Not at all. The silence actually points to things being very close indeed. If this takeover wasn't happening, we would have known about it by now. Barring the unforeseen, we are about to be taken over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: east-stand-nick on July 29, 2016, 02:57:07 PM
I've only been fleeting in and out of the discussion, but as far as I can see this is all based on press rumours and Twitter gossip? Am I mistaken?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 29, 2016, 02:58:09 PM
I've only been fleeting in and out of the discussion, but as far as I can see this is all based on press rumours and Twitter gossip? Am I mistaken?


shouldnt the club come out and kill it then
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 29, 2016, 03:01:46 PM

shouldnt the club come out and kill it then

They probably would if it wasn't happening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on July 29, 2016, 03:09:54 PM
Not at all. The silence actually points to things being very close indeed. If this takeover wasn't happening, we would have known about it by now. Barring the unforeseen, we are about to be taken over.
It's been silent many times in the last few years, but no takeover yet
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 29, 2016, 03:13:55 PM
It's been silent many times in the last few years, but no takeover yet

True but if things were not progressing i'm JP would have pulled the plug by now. Must be close to being announced
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 29, 2016, 03:14:26 PM
I've only been fleeting in and out of the discussion, but as far as I can see this is all based on press rumours and Twitter gossip? Am I mistaken?
Nick, as I understand it your organisation has at it's disposal a huge computer that can carry out complex algorithms in a few seconds, & yet your predictions are only accurate for a 48 hour period, with a slightly less confidence of certainty for the following 72 hours.
I'll leave you to draw you own conclusions.  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on July 29, 2016, 03:28:26 PM
Is this t/over happening or not.After being told it was being to be in todays papers and its not,it really inebriated me off.Along with others I really believed it was happening,now I don't.Its gone dead and I would be surprised if it could be kept this quiet.I have supported the albion for 64yrs and they are still able to kick me in the knackers.My missus thinks im mad cannot understand how the albion can make you feel  on top of the world one minute and like sticking me ed in a bucket of pooh the next ,as I do now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 29, 2016, 03:31:43 PM
Is this t/over happening or not.After being told it was being to be in todays papers and its not,it really inebriated me off.Along with others I really believed it was happening,now I don't.Its gone dead and I would be surprised if it could be kept this quiet.I have supported the albion for 64yrs and they are still able to kick me in the knackers.My missus thinks im mad cannot understand how the albion can make you feel  on top of the world one minute and like sticking me ed in a bucket of rubbish the next ,as I do now.

One of the regular ITK posters said several days ago and more than once that the announcement would be early August. Don't think he's changed that.

Get your head out of that rubbish!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on July 29, 2016, 03:32:25 PM
New Baggie - it all depends who your source is?

Have they been right in the past?

Anyway I'd say it's still on until we hear otherwise.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 29, 2016, 03:34:49 PM
Sorry Newbaggie your source must have been wrong unless it comes out late, I`m sticking with Baggie 78 when he said early August and 8 is a lucky number  in CHINA 8/8/16 those seem good numbers to me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on July 29, 2016, 03:35:01 PM
Is this t/over happening or not.After being told it was being to be in todays papers and its not,it really inebriated me off.Along with others I really believed it was happening,now I don't.Its gone dead and I would be surprised if it could be kept this quiet.I have supported the albion for 64yrs and they are still able to kick me in the knackers.My missus thinks im mad cannot understand how the albion can make you feel  on top of the world one minute and like sticking me ed in a bucket of rubbish the next ,as I do now.

I think we must be about the same age. I sympathise with every word and feel I could have easily written that. My commiserations!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 29, 2016, 03:42:23 PM
Sorry Newbaggie your source must have been wrong unless it comes out late, I`m sticking with Baggie 78 when he said early August and 8 is a lucky number  in CHINA 8/8/16 those seem good numbers to me.

If hardened business men go with lucky numbers to release news then I despair. If that really is the case then we'll be lumped with a Vincent Tan type character who thought it was lucky to change the Cardiff home kit to red.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: east-stand-nick on July 29, 2016, 03:43:56 PM
Nick, as I understand it your organisation has at it's disposal a huge computer that can carry out complex algorithms in a few seconds, & yet your predictions are only accurate for a 48 hour period, with a slightly less confidence of certainty for the following 72 hours.
I'll leave you to draw you own conclusions.  :)

You seem to be mistaking me for someone who works at the Met Office!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 29, 2016, 03:44:46 PM
Just taken this of WBAMAD site AUGUST7th/8th when we will be celebrating PEACE`S departure 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 29, 2016, 03:53:24 PM
Do you know what, I am finding this thread more & more surreal every day. In the greater scheme of things, it matters not one jot if the club is acquired or not, our lives will carry on just the same.
On the other hand, if some Chinese or whatever businessman came along & said he was planning a West Bromwich re-generation project, which would enhance our lives & create thousands of jobs, we'd have a right to get excited and/or frustrated.

Chill, FFS.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 29, 2016, 03:53:38 PM
I've only been fleeting in and out of the discussion, but as far as I can see this is all based on press rumours and Twitter gossip? Am I mistaken?

Not really. Peace changed residence to Jersey. That's the give away. It's the worst kept secret ever.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on July 29, 2016, 03:54:17 PM
Just taken this of WBAMAD site AUGUST7th/8th when we will be celebrating PEACE`S departure
Celebrate ?  the blokes done a good job in my book and deserves some respect......there are far, far, far worse chairmen around.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on July 29, 2016, 03:55:20 PM
lot of people acting like buying / selling the club is the same as popping down to the shops for a pint of milk.

it'll happen when it happens, nobody other than the seller and the buyer can do anything about it and acting like a spoilt child won't change that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on July 29, 2016, 03:56:02 PM
Just taken this of WBAMAD site AUGUST7th/8th when we will be celebrating PEACE`S departure
wolves were saying the same days the 7th and 8th its all rubbish if anything happens it will happen when its 100% done regardless the date
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 29, 2016, 04:00:10 PM
Sorry about that I`m a big PEACE fan and was just quoting what was said on another site I would like PEACE to stop on in some sort of role IF or WHEN  its all sorted, even if I don`t believe he will.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 29, 2016, 04:06:11 PM
anyone got any whats left shares at the albion on here
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 29, 2016, 04:15:22 PM
It would be great if the news come through that we have been sold while we were in Plymouth then we could celebrate in style. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 29, 2016, 04:26:37 PM
It would be great if the news come through that we have been sold while we were in Plymouth then we could celebrate in style.


i would give you a smacker kev  :-*
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 29, 2016, 04:42:45 PM

i would give you a smacker kev  :-*

No tongues. :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 29, 2016, 04:48:42 PM
No tongues. :P

Not a chance with his old Ale breath.

Anyway its about time we became the richer of the midlands instead of being the pauper
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 29, 2016, 05:42:00 PM

shouldnt the club come out and kill it then

No because it's a private deal between two parties on the stock market whether you like it or not we don't have a god given right to know and the club won't address everything that comes out. I would suggest that the fact they haven't came out and dismissed it is as good a sign as any that it's happening
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 29, 2016, 05:45:16 PM
Not a chance with his old Ale breath.

Anyway its about time we became the richer of the midlands instead of being the pauper
Less of the old, and for that you can buy me a beer chap.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 29, 2016, 06:08:04 PM
No because it's a private deal between two parties on the stock market whether you like it or not we don't have a god given right to know and the club won't address everything that comes out. I would suggest that the fact they haven't came out and dismissed it is as good a sign as any that it's happening

I've read that this whole "both parties on the stock market" line is tosh as West Bromwich Holdings is not on the stock market so can you shed any light on this? I politely asked a guy on twitter but he was more interested in being rude about it and labelling any "ITK" posters as talking "********." Some people just don't get the idea of chatting.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on July 29, 2016, 06:21:11 PM
I've read that this whole "both parties on the stock market" line is tosh as West Bromwich Holdings is not on the stock market so can you shed any light on this? I politely asked a guy on twitter but he was more interested in being rude about it and labelling any "ITK" posters as talking "********." Some people just don't get the idea of chatting.

Sounds about right to me, just my opinion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 29, 2016, 06:40:37 PM
I've read that this whole "both parties on the stock market" line is tosh as West Bromwich Holdings is not on the stock market so can you shed any light on this? I politely asked a guy on twitter but he was more interested in being rude about it and labelling any "ITK" posters as talking "********." Some people just don't get the idea of chatting.

I understand. My point remains for example if you have two globally recognised companies with one looking to buy the other you dont hear the selling company coming out and confirming/denying whats going on or letting a large number of people know simply because a few people are demanding answers do you? Theres a reason the buying party remain a secret its because things are being done proffesionally and in the right way. I personally think the club are spot on not to address the media or the fans on this subject. JP is the major shareholder they are his shares and he deserves a right of privacy and protection when it comes to this because as much as we all love the club its a business at the end of the day and its his business first and foremost. I dont know would fans rather he came out like last year and discussed it in public Only for it to fall at the last hurdle? No i bet not because if that did happen (and before anyone begins to worry and write me private messages that hasnt happened and i doubt it will like ive said as far as im told its done) you would be annoyed and feel stitched up. Folks need to just be patient because its out of our hands just enjoy the ride remember good things come to those who wait.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 29, 2016, 06:55:36 PM
I understand. My point remains for example if you have two globally recognised companies with one looking to buy the other you dont hear the selling company coming out and confirming/denying whats going on or letting a large number of people know simply because a few people are demanding answers do you? Theres a reason the buying party remain a secret its because things are being done proffesionally and in the right way. I personally think the club are spot on not to address the media or the fans on this subject. JP is the major shareholder they are his shares and he deserves a right of privacy and protection when it comes to this because as much as we all love the club its a business at the end of the day and its his business first and foremost. I dont know would fans rather he came out like last year and discussed it in public Only for it to fall at the last hurdle? No i bet not because if that did happen (and before anyone begins to worry and write me private messages that hasnt happened and i doubt it will like ive said as far as im told its done) you would be annoyed and feel stitched up. Folks need to just be patient because its out of our hands just enjoy the ride remember good things come to those who wait.
I honestly couldn't care less if it falls through, don't see what the problem is in the club saying what's happening, I wouldn't feel annoyed at all if it doesn't happen these things happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 29, 2016, 06:59:08 PM
I honestly couldn't care less if it falls through, don't see what the problem is in the club saying what's happening, I wouldn't feel annoyed at all if it doesn't happen these things happen.

I'm interested in what salary you earn and how much property you have?

Are you going to share it with me just because I'm interested and a fan of yours?

Thought not, so why should Peace share with you his private dealings
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 29, 2016, 07:12:38 PM
I'm interested in what salary you earn and how much proprty you have?

Are you going to share it with me just because I'm interested and a fan of yours?

Thought not, so why should Peace share with you his private dealing

Spot on pretty much what I'm getting at in a lot less words  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 29, 2016, 08:02:13 PM
Seriously, stay on topic and don't go sharing personal details on a public forum
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 29, 2016, 08:40:21 PM
Seriously, stay on topic and don't go sharing personal details on a public forum

I was trying to turn it into a spoof as i was about to show the response was clearly untrue and therefore his arguement was invalid ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 29, 2016, 08:54:21 PM
I was trying to turn it into a spoof as i was about to show the response was clearly untrue and therefore his arguement was invalid ;D
try harder
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 29, 2016, 08:55:59 PM
The mods won't let me as it was obvious you were being obtuse 8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 29, 2016, 08:58:01 PM
The mods won't let me as it was obvious you were being obtuse 8)
of course I was :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 29, 2016, 09:37:33 PM
Enjoyed your sense of humour, on a more serious note, I hope we get good news in the next few weeks so we can have a better and more enjoyable season ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 29, 2016, 09:48:05 PM
Enjoyed your sense of humour, on a more serious note, I hope we get good news in the next few weeks so we can have a better and more enjoyable season ;)
likewise, lets hope its good news in days not weeks. have relented from pressure from wife and son to buy 3 season tickets after missing for 12 months. it better be enjoyable cannot stomach a 220 mile round trip and not enjoying the match. :'(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 30, 2016, 09:46:40 AM
Ey up lads any news?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 30, 2016, 10:11:34 AM
Breaking news Wanda purchased a new business and it's not the Albion
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 30, 2016, 10:22:57 AM
A question for the financiers on here:

Could WBAFC receive an injection of cash from a third party via a new share issue, without impacting on JP's shares? For example could a third party inject £100 million into the company, making the company then worth £300 million, with the third party owning £100 million & JP owning £200 million?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 30, 2016, 10:30:01 AM
A question for the financiers on here:

Could WBAFC receive an injection of cash from a third party via a new share issue, without impacting on JP's shares? For example could a third party inject £100 million into the company, making the company then worth £300 million, with the third party owning £100 million & JP owning £200 million?

No I'm pretty sure that breaks Anti-Trust Law, although I stand to be corrected
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 30, 2016, 10:38:55 AM
The perfect scenario for me would be I believe what's happened at Everton. Peace sells a large proportion of shares and brings in an investor. I stand to be corrected with Everton but I believe kenright had sold shares but maintained a large stake. Could it be something similar here and peace will still be involved with another person or group? Could that be why it's taking a little longer
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 30, 2016, 11:36:46 AM
The perfect scenario for me would be I believe what's happened at Everton. Peace sells a large proportion of shares and brings in an investor. I stand to be corrected with Everton but I believe kenright had sold shares but maintained a large stake. Could it be something similar here and peace will still be involved with another person or group? Could that be why it's taking a little longer

Hasn't Kenwright got at least 51%? Those types of deal are notoriously Hard to pull off, because, What are they buying? just a dividend in future profits. if we are sold It needs to be 100% of JP's stake. I a fan of his I don't own shares. But, having him involved after the handover defeats the reason for the sale. In that he's taken us as far as he can go. I trust him to sell to the best option for the club. But new owners need a fresh start
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 30, 2016, 11:56:52 AM
Any of the pro sale members on here having second thoughts after whats going on at Wolves? I'm still going with better the devil you know but I understand JP has had enough.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 30, 2016, 12:51:13 PM
Any of the pro sale members on here having second thoughts after whats going on at Wolves? I'm still going with better the devil you know but I understand JP has had enough.

They've just got rid of the manager so it does make me wonder what the potential buyer of our club will be thinking about Pulis and if he should be retained.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 30, 2016, 12:52:17 PM
Any of the pro sale members on here having second thoughts after whats going on at Wolves? I'm still going with better the devil you know but I understand JP has had enough.
clubs are indifferent situations. Jp has had enough i can live with that but if we want anything different we need investment beyond the level he is prepared or able to put in. i also cant help the feeling that the last few years have in JP`s eyes been purely about safeguarding the clubs status purely for his own personal gain. in fairness his football related decisions have in the main since Hodgson left taking Ashworth with him been poor at best and those of a disinterested man at worst imo
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: adamw1109 on July 30, 2016, 01:39:55 PM
Any of the pro sale members on here having second thoughts after whats going on at Wolves? I'm still going with better the devil you know but I understand JP has had enough.

Nope, no second thoughts at all but can understand why people would have.
For me, regardless of who's in charge, who's playing for us and who the manager is I'm still going to be going every game and to pay so much over the last 2 seasons to watch poor football for the majority of it.... I'm happy to see it change hands, worst that can happen from a fans point of view is we get relegated... I really hope we don't but as long as I'm seeing a team and manager having a go at trying to win every game I'm happy with whatever league we are in. Got to the point towards the end of last season I was going up the hawthorns and didn't pay no attention at all because how poor some of the football was.

Peace is scared to put his hand in his pocket and pulis is only interested in 'staying up' we need abit more ambition it's getting very flat and boring atm
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on July 30, 2016, 03:14:57 PM
I would welcome an injection of cash from the right investor.I still have this feeling its not on and I cannot get in touch with the bloke who told me about it being in the papers.I think hes gone downh a rabbit hole.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 30, 2016, 03:29:18 PM
If we are taken over then we need a clean break, we need someone to push the club forward. We don't need Peace still here keeping the brakes on and haggling over every transfer we try and pull off.
Peace hasn't been interested in us for a few years, by his own admission, he is only interested in profit and how much he can get for us.
The only reason we didn't go last year because they couldn't pay him all the money in one go.

Anyone who thinks he has the club at heart are kidding themselves. He has no interaction with the fans at all.
A cold hearted money grabbing capitalist.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on July 30, 2016, 06:03:17 PM
If we are taken over then we need a clean break, we need someone to push the club forward. We don't need Peace still here keeping the brakes on and haggling over every transfer we try and pull off.
Peace hasn't been interested in us for a few years, by his own admission, he is only interested in profit and how much he can get for us.
The only reason we didn't go last year because they couldn't pay him all the money in one go.

Anyone who thinks he has the club at heart are kidding themselves. He has no interaction with the fans at all.
A cold hearted money grabbing capitalist.
Entitled to your opinion but he's improved the club......training facilities.....academy....all adds to the value. It benefits Peace and the club going forward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 30, 2016, 07:18:28 PM
 but his footballing decisions in the last 4 years have been poor and quiet possibly motivated by personal needs
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 30, 2016, 07:21:23 PM
but his footballing decisions in the last 4 years have been motivated and quiet possibly motivated by personal needs

That's true of course . One of the just criticisms of  Peace in my view is that once we were established in the premier league, he had no apparent plan for pushing on, only to keep staying up? Of course , that was his aim so that he could sell up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on July 30, 2016, 07:23:44 PM
but his footballing decisions in the last 4 years have been motivated and quiet possibly motivated by personal needs
personal need for us to stay up maybe ...just as with every other Chairman in the league barring the loaded clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on July 30, 2016, 07:24:03 PM
Entitled to your opinion but he's improved the club......training facilities.....academy....all adds to the value. It benefits Peace and the club going forward.

And yet for all that good work off the pitch, we have not improved on it. When he took over we were 15th in the league, where is the progress?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 30, 2016, 08:40:46 PM
Now I canit wait till the bloody thing is either announced or denied got told a few week back some bad news about health. I say this not looking for sympathy. Its a weird thing but football became strangely important If have a wish in life It's see us sold to someone who can take us forward wihout destroying the spirit of the club and I would love to win a proper cup I never seen us do it forgive me just an old sod rambling
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on July 30, 2016, 08:42:33 PM
And yet for all that good work off the pitch, we have not improved on it. When he took over we were 15th in the league, where is the progress?
Well the game has transformed in the last 14 years. Other clubs have gained more wealthy owners (Man City ?) and been in more fashionable areas for investment. We have remained unfashionable and have struggled to keep up financially . So many factors come into it over the course of 14 years it's impossible to draw any conclusions. You obviously think we've underachieved though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 30, 2016, 09:45:43 PM
Now I canit wait till the bloody thing is either announced or denied got told a few week back some bad news about health. I say this not looking for sympathy. Its a weird thing but football became strangely important If have a wish in life It's see us sold to someone who can take us forward wihout destroying the spirit of the club and I would love to win a proper cup I never seen us do it forgive me just an old sod rambling

Mate I have everything crossed for you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 30, 2016, 10:09:41 PM
Now I canit wait till the bloody thing is either announced or denied got told a few week back some bad news about health. I say this not looking for sympathy. Its a weird thing but football became strangely important If have a wish in life It's see us sold to someone who can take us forward wihout destroying the spirit of the club and I would love to win a proper cup I never seen us do it forgive me just an old sod rambling

I hope your health issues become non issues.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 30, 2016, 10:29:23 PM
Now I canit wait till the bloody thing is either announced or denied got told a few week back some bad news about health. I say this not looking for sympathy. Its a weird thing but football became strangely important If have a wish in life It's see us sold to someone who can take us forward wihout destroying the spirit of the club and I would love to win a proper cup I never seen us do it forgive me just an old sod rambling
Sorry to hear that mate. Fingers crossed for you and also that something happens very soon to move the club in a more ambitious and positive direction.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: don1thedon on July 30, 2016, 10:50:35 PM
Now I canit wait till the bloody thing is either announced or denied got told a few week back some bad news about health. I say this not looking for sympathy. Its a weird thing but football became strangely important If have a wish in life It's see us sold to someone who can take us forward wihout destroying the spirit of the club and I would love to win a proper cup I never seen us do it forgive me just an old sod rambling
Ramble away fella.
You're so right about footie being something we hold on to during tough times, hoping things work out, good luck!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 31, 2016, 09:18:40 AM
Rumours on Facebook and Twitter its fallen through  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 31, 2016, 09:21:18 AM
Rumours on Facebook and Twitter its fallen through  :o

Even if it's true the club never made anything public so there's no blame here.

Just time to crack on in the transfer market.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kanu on July 31, 2016, 09:27:02 AM
There was never a hint of a takeover from the club so no surprise to hear there is no takeover going ahead.
If the Chinese at wolves are anything to go by we really need to keep JP at the helm. Our problem is Pulis. Yesterday's starting line up was criminal. The dinosaur is destroying us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on July 31, 2016, 09:27:59 AM
Rumours on Facebook and Twitter its fallen through  :o

That's what I heard last night as well from someone fairly well connected with the club. Apparently we moved the goal posts at the last minute in terms of the structure of the deal. The deal broke down on Wednesday.

An announcemet to be made tomorrow at some stage, i.e. no deal could be reached and we now support the head coach for a busy last month of the transfer window (blah blah).

This was always how it was going to end up.

Thank Christ I didn't bother to renew my season ticket...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 31, 2016, 09:32:31 AM
Apart of me just thinks JP will never let go. He's done well for the club but we are struggling to compete to even get to the levels we have been. Lets face it, not everything is pulis fault. The squad needs help.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 31, 2016, 09:42:00 AM
Great news if true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on July 31, 2016, 09:51:48 AM
That's what I heard last night as well from someone fairly well connected with the club. Apparently we moved the goal posts at the last minute in terms of the structure of the deal. The deal broke down on Wednesday.

An announcemet to be made tomorrow at some stage, i.e. no deal could be reached and we now support the head coach for a busy last month of the transfer window (blah blah).

This was always how it was going to end up.

Thank Christ I didn't bother to renew my season ticket...

Hope not............

We really need an injection of capital to help us stand still at this level let alone move forward.
The goalposts for competing at this level have changed with the new tv contract and other clubs at our level seem willing to invest at the new 'crazy' transfer market prices......................somehow you just know that Peace and Co. will bulk at paying the going rate and potentially see us left behind even further.

If Peace has scuppered a potential brilliant deal FOR THE CLUB through his greed then he should be rightly condemned fro everything that follows.

Overall, I think we just need something exciting and optimist to happen to our club !!!!! :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on July 31, 2016, 09:53:02 AM
Apart of me just thinks JP will never let go. He's done well for the club but we are struggling to compete to even get to the levels we have been. Lets face it, not everything is pulis fault. The squad needs help.

Spot on....................more of the same old same old if true.

Will we ever develop the stadium and increase the fan base ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 31, 2016, 09:57:16 AM
That's what I heard last night as well from someone fairly well connected with the club. Apparently we moved the goal posts at the last minute in terms of the structure of the deal. The deal broke down on Wednesday.

An announcemet to be made tomorrow at some stage, i.e. no deal could be reached and we now support the head coach for a busy last month of the transfer window (blah blah).

This was always how it was going to end up.

Thank Christ I didn't bother to renew my season ticket...

JP move the goalposts? Unlike him! ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 31, 2016, 09:58:00 AM
If indeed the takeover is off, it is quite possible that Peace has scuppered a deal which might have been disastrous for the club.  Maybe he has seen off a Vincent Tan-type takeover.

Just trying to add some balance to the discussion....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on July 31, 2016, 09:59:57 AM
Yet another well respected ITK on another board says the deal will be annouced next week. ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 31, 2016, 10:03:02 AM
There are rumours about the rumours of a sale which may or may not have been discussed with parties that are not yet known but might have been Chinese. We moved the goalposts or maybe we couldn't agree whether the goalposts were included in the sale price (yes £500,000 house sales have fallen through because of a dispute over soft furnishings).

I don't know nor does anyone else except a few people who are not willing or able to talk about this subject. For what it is worth the sale will go through when it goes through. Trying to designate a time frame to fit round the football season on a deal like this is virtually impossible so I would not be surprised if talks continued into the new season.

I have always maintained that the club has to be run on a business as usual basis until a deal is signed sealed and delivered and I assume it will be
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 31, 2016, 10:08:53 AM
There are rumours about the rumours of a sale which may or may not have been discussed with parties that are not yet known but might have been Chinese. We moved the goalposts or maybe we couldn't agree whether the goalposts were included in the sale price (yes £500,000 house sales have fallen through because of a dispute over soft furnishings).

I don't know nor does anyone else except a few people who are not willing or able to talk about this subject. For what it is worth the sale will go through when it goes through. Trying to designate a time frame to fit round the football season on a deal like this is virtually impossible so I would not be surprised if talks continued into the new season.

I have always maintained that the club has to be run on a business as usual basis until a deal is signed sealed and delivered and I assume it will be

Well said, if and when the club is sold, I think we all want a deal that enhances the future of the club and is not detrimental to the club in anyway. Funnily enough I do trust R P to do that when the time comes
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 31, 2016, 10:20:21 AM
Rumours on Facebook and Twitter its fallen through  :o

If so that's THREE times he has pulled this stunt and gt away with it.

Come on now folks, move along, nothing to see here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tucka9 on July 31, 2016, 10:21:15 AM
I think it's clear to see no one has a scooby doo about what's going on and how close anything is at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on July 31, 2016, 10:25:57 AM
Thanks for the well wishes lads The shock of all this I would normally say nothing but its been up and down the last couple of weeks and yesterday was down I know it's a pre-season game but Plymouth listening to it on player we sounded dire. I think I got carried away with sale talk. I thnk it needs to happen because the club seems to be in a rut. But at the end of the days nothing ever been announced what happens, happens I can't influance it Thank again lads LB
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 31, 2016, 10:31:04 AM
Another transfer window wasted. We go into the season with a want away striker, rumours of bids for Rondon and Evans from other clubs. We have signed one player and that has taken two years.
Any signings we make now will probably have no prem experience, will
 not be match fit and will go into our style of play cold.
This will be the season when Peaces luck and bullshine finally comes home to roost.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on July 31, 2016, 10:49:59 AM
Another transfer window wasted. We go into the season with a want away striker, rumours of bids for Rondon and Evans from other clubs. We have signed one player and that has taken two years.
Any signings we make now will probably have no prem experience, will
 not be match fit and will go into our style of play cold.
This will be the season when Peaces luck and bullshine finally comes home to roost.
Still a month to go,  hardly wasted
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on July 31, 2016, 10:53:53 AM
Takeover definitely hasn't fallen through and is on course to be completed next week.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on July 31, 2016, 10:57:21 AM
I do think it's pretty clear that hardly anyone really knows what's actually happening and I doubt they will until something concrete either way is announced.

However, we do seem to be cutting it fine for the new season.

Hopefully, it will announced next week whilst I'm in Majorca and can have a chat with the new owners !!!!!!    ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 31, 2016, 11:23:19 AM
Another transfer window wasted. We go into the season with a want away striker, rumours of bids for Rondon and Evans from other clubs. We have signed one player and that has taken two years.
Any signings we make now will probably have no prem experience, will
 not be match fit and will go into our style of play cold.
This will be the season when Peaces luck and bullshine finally comes home to roost.

I'm amazed that with your predictions that:

a) We all need to go and top ourselves

b) You don't predict your Euromillions numbers and buy the club yourself.

I do wish you would change your tune and say something positive for once, you obviously have an agenda, it's so depressing :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 31, 2016, 11:38:14 AM
There's a rumour that, there's a rumour.  :-\
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 31, 2016, 11:40:34 AM
I'm amazed that with your predictions that:

a) We all need to go and top ourselves

b) You don't predict your Euromillions numbers and buy the club yourself.

I do wish you would change your tune and say something positive for once, you obviously have an agenda, it's so depressing :(

It would be nice to have something to be optimistic about, but we have had no news at all, since May. No transfers to talk about, no takeover, nothing. It comes to something when all we have to discuss is women with hairy armpits. No agenda with Peace, i just see him without rose tinted specs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 31, 2016, 11:48:42 AM
come on own up whos the grass
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 31, 2016, 11:54:41 AM
come on own up whos the grass
Or been smoking it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 31, 2016, 12:04:12 PM
ITS fun being a BAGGIES fan where else could you get the hysteria we get on here, Takeover on no its off all because someone one twitter decides to have some fun well we`ll see soon enough. The good news is we've supposedly had a bid accecpted for Sakho all we have to do now is get it over the line easy in it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 31, 2016, 12:34:16 PM
Any supposed ITK people will post as and when anything can be posted, please stop asking them in threads. If you wish to know anything then pm the person you think maybe ITK

Reminder of this, don't get moaning if you cannot find your posts. This thread is for discussing possible takeover not asking if someone knows something.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RICH ONE on July 31, 2016, 12:43:53 PM
With the deal for Sakho agreed is it a sign the takeover has been completed 100% and we can start getting players signed,
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 31, 2016, 12:57:15 PM
I`m  not ITK RICH ONE but I`m thinking you could be right our biggest deal ever if it goes through, I don`t believe the takeover thread earlier stating it was off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on July 31, 2016, 01:06:05 PM
With the deal for Sakho agreed is it a sign the takeover has been completed 100% and we can start getting players signed,

Or does it mean the takeover is off as per the rumours, and it is now business as usual. This is the kind of deal I would expect us to make regardless of new ownership or investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RICH ONE on July 31, 2016, 01:07:11 PM
I don't believe the rumour either the last we heard the paperwork was with the FA and I am sure the deal would have collapsed before it reached that particular stage
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 31, 2016, 01:22:16 PM
If this Sakho deal is correct, let's assume he signs on a 4 year deal at £60k per week, that's £12million in wages plus an alleged transfer fee of £16 million = £28 million of which £19 million will have to be found this year. That's about 1/3 of the TV money gone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on July 31, 2016, 01:25:59 PM
If this Sakho deal is correct, let's assume he signs on a 4 year deal at £60k per week, that's £12million in wages plus an alleged transfer fee of £16 million = £28 million of which £19 million will have to be found this year. That's about 1/3 of the TV money gone.

Is the TV money only £60m? And the club can't win. We spend the money and people complain. The club don't spend the money and people moan. I give up!!!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbatillidie on July 31, 2016, 01:35:24 PM
If this Sakho deal is correct, let's assume he signs on a 4 year deal at £60k per week, that's £12million in wages plus an alleged transfer fee of £16 million = £28 million of which £19 million will have to be found this year. That's about 1/3 of the TV money gone.

Assuming he is Saido's replacement the fee we will receive for Berahino will pay for Sakho
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on July 31, 2016, 01:42:49 PM
But you can`t rely on money we hav`nt  got Berahino may not leave yet even though I hope he does.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbatillidie on July 31, 2016, 01:46:12 PM
We're more than capable of affording Sakho's fee and wages as well as keeping Saido. We've freed up a fairly large amount of money releasing Anichebe and Sess.

There's a £20m+ offer on the table for Saido and I'd say its fair to assume he will go if we bring Sakho in
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 31, 2016, 01:49:12 PM
Is the TV money only £60m? And the club can't win. We spend the money and people complain. The club don't spend the money and people moan. I give up!!!!!

I'm pretty sure it's £60million. Add to that Matty Phillips at £7.5 million ( £5 million plus £2.5 million wages) that's £26.5 on two players, can only see another two coming in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 31, 2016, 01:52:52 PM
We're more than capable of affording Sakho's fee and wages as well as keeping Saido. We've freed up a fairly large amount of money releasing Anichebe and Sess.

There's a £20m+ offer on the table for Saido and I'd say its fair to assume he will go if we bring Sakho in

How much do you think we've freed up from Vic & Sess? I'd say about £4 million max.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on July 31, 2016, 02:02:37 PM
I'm pretty sure it's £60million. Add to that Matty Phillips at £7.5 million ( £5 million plus £2.5 million wages) that's £26.5 on two players, can only see another two coming in.
Season 2015/16 West Brom £73m http://www.totalsportek.com/football/premier-league-prize-money-table-2015/ So probably more this coming season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 31, 2016, 02:03:24 PM
I think it's clear to see no one has a scooby doo about what's going on and how close anything is at all.

I agree. Lots of talk from both sides, some say it's off, some say it's early next week. I choose to think no one really has much of an idea and it's pure speculation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 31, 2016, 02:19:47 PM
There's a rumour that, there's a rumour.  :-\
I do wish people would stop spreading rumours about rumours only being rumours.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 31, 2016, 02:22:54 PM
Got a feeling it's all about to kick off this week. With us agreeing a price with West Ham , about to up our bid to Leicester , Tomorrow or early part of this week .Get ready people . West Brom is about to take off
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 31, 2016, 02:34:52 PM
It would be nice to have something to be optimistic about, but we have had no news at all, since May. No transfers to talk about, no takeover, nothing. It comes to something when all we have to discuss is women with hairy armpits. No agenda with Peace, i just see him without rose tinted specs.

As they say no news is good news.

From my record of transfer rumours we have been linked with over 20 players so far all in positions we need to strengthen , they may or might not happen, The positive is we are looking at Strikers, left backs, defensive and attacking midfielders, what's not to like
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 31, 2016, 02:37:12 PM
It would be nice to have something to be optimistic about, but we have had no news at all, since May. No transfers to talk about, no takeover, nothing. It comes to something when all we have to discuss is women with hairy armpits. No agenda with Peace, i just see him without rose tinted specs.

No agenda with Peace!! then why have a strap line of "Peace off"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: botters on July 31, 2016, 03:07:19 PM
Got a feeling it's all about to kick off this week. With us agreeing a price with West Ham , about to up our bid to Leicester , Tomorrow or early part of this week .Get ready people . West Brom is about to take off

I have heard from a reliable source with genuine links to the club that a press conference is to be called on Wednesday afternoon to introduce the new Chinese owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 31, 2016, 03:09:09 PM
I have heard from a reliable source with genuine links to the club that a press conference is to be called on Wednesday afternoon to introduce the new Chinese owners.


i do hope so, we need a fresh approach and new invesment to push on a little. Peace has done well and should be applauded when he steps down even with 150 million in his back pocket for pretty much non return
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on July 31, 2016, 05:32:00 PM
I got told that deal is done and is having the premier league checks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on July 31, 2016, 05:51:02 PM
longbridgs baggie im sorry to hear about your health issues and hope you make a swift recovery.I was diagnosed with prostate cancer  not long ago and had to have my prostate removed.The operation was successful and I have to have yearly checks.I do not know what your illness is but I would say think positive and im sure all the posters on this forum will wish you well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 31, 2016, 06:00:47 PM
No agenda with Peace!! then why have a strap line of "Peace off"

Just a play on words,he is supposed to be off.  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 31, 2016, 06:17:48 PM
Just a play on words,he is supposed to be off.  :)

Come, come, don't be shy to admit your prejudice.

Anyway, it seems transfer deadlock is over with Stoke and West Ham incomings and Peace is still here ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: botters on July 31, 2016, 07:46:59 PM
Come, come, don't be shy to admit your prejudice.

Anyway, it seems transfer deadlock is over with Stoke and West Ham incomings and Peace is still here ;D

I don't think that Peace is sanctioning these deals!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 31, 2016, 08:05:18 PM
I don't think that Peace is sanctioning these deals!

If not, then who is?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on July 31, 2016, 08:16:26 PM
I don't think that Peace is sanctioning these deals!


I think you will find he is based on  future sales income for Berahino. Both Phillips and Sahko purchases have not yet touched our "war chest" - meagre as it is.

With T/O deals you never know how whats going to happen untill the ink is dry and the sale is sealed and delivered
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 31, 2016, 08:32:10 PM
If this Sakho deal is correct, let's assume he signs on a 4 year deal at £60k per week, that's £12million in wages plus an alleged transfer fee of £16 million = £28 million of which £19 million will have to be found this year. That's about 1/3 of the TV money gone.

Didn't we make a £7m profit last year? We should have plenty to spend this summer no excuses.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 31, 2016, 08:32:40 PM
longbridgs baggie im sorry to hear about your health issues and hope you make a swift recovery.I was diagnosed with prostate cancer  not long ago and had to have my prostate removed.The operation was successful and I have to have yearly checks.I do not know what your illness is but I would say think positive and im sure all the posters on this forum will wish you well.
seconded, wish you both well your health's more important than football. only just mind.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 31, 2016, 09:11:54 PM
longbridgs baggie im sorry to hear about your health issues and hope you make a swift recovery.I was diagnosed with prostate cancer  not long ago and had to have my prostate removed.The operation was successful and I have to have yearly checks.I do not know what your illness is but I would say think positive and im sure all the posters on this forum will wish you well.
.  Hear ! Hear! To that Newbie
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 31, 2016, 10:53:20 PM
If new owners are announced shortly what do you think are the chances of TP staying on? There's history of other club takeovers bringing in a new manager whether almost immediately or not longer after.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on July 31, 2016, 10:55:59 PM
If new owners are announced shortly what do you think are the chances of TP staying on? There's history of other club takeovers bringing in a new manager whether almost immediately or not longer after.

Getting rid of Pulis would be a disaster at this stage, we have an extremely limited squad that can probably only really stay up by being greater than the sum of its parts and playing a very specific style.

We're in big trouble when Pulis leaves without significant improvements to this squad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on July 31, 2016, 10:57:16 PM
If new owners are announced shortly what do you think are the chances of TP staying on? There's history of other club takeovers bringing in a new manager whether almost immediately or not longer after.
I imagine he will stay for the start of the season at least. He will be happy enough whatever happens. He will just carry on until he gets paid off to leave early or gets through the last year of his deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on July 31, 2016, 11:52:35 PM
Not sure but what about due dilligence and how it needs to be made public.

Have i got that right?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 01, 2016, 12:55:09 AM
For the sake of clarity the new ownership will have no say in the running of the club until they are the new owners. It is that simple until a contract is signed and they have been approved by the FA they aren't running the club. The only grey area is at the point they are seeking FA approval but we aren't there yet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aixelsyd on August 01, 2016, 01:07:32 AM
I have heard from a reliable source with genuine links to the club that a press conference is to be called on Wednesday afternoon to introduce the new Chinese owners.

Well in Chinese Tradition the Number 8 (August) is associated to "Wealth" (or Prosper)

and Number 3 (i.e. Wednesday's date) is associated to "Birth"

as both are considered very lucky numbers, it seems like a good day to announce the start of a New Ownership :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 01, 2016, 08:56:44 AM
If new owners are announced shortly what do you think are the chances of TP staying on? There's history of other club takeovers bringing in a new manager whether almost immediately or not longer after.

If I'd bought into a business which I didn't fully understand, I'd leave everything in place until I did.

It looks as though Wolves new owner has let his ego get in the way, can only end in tears that for me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on August 01, 2016, 09:24:24 AM
The issue with the wolves takeover is at the moment they look like they don't have a clue what they are doing. Jackett was in and then out.

I'd prefer our lot to not do a thing until they have got a proper plan in place and have met everyone at the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on August 01, 2016, 09:52:36 AM
The issue with the wolves takeover is at the moment they look like they don't have a clue what they are doing. Jackett was in and then out.

I'd prefer our lot to not do a thing until they have got a proper plan in place and have met everyone at the club.
Agree, no kneejerk reactions. I'm not a Pulis fan, but to get rid now could spell disaster. The team is set up to play his way and if someone else comes in with a different philosophy (a-la Pepe Mel), it could go dramatically wrong.
Ideally, would like a new coach to come in who is smart enough to transition from the current style to a more attractive one, without too much pain, but that is a big ask.
Either way, the long term cannot involve Pulis for me. If we have genuine ambitions to push on then we need to move on from his one dimensional style.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on August 01, 2016, 10:00:35 AM
Agree, no kneejerk reactions. I'm not a Pulis fan, but to get rid now could spell disaster. The team is set up to play his way and if someone else comes in with a different philosophy (a-la Pepe Mel), it could go dramatically wrong.
Ideally, would like a new coach to come in who is smart enough to transition from the current style to a more attractive one, without too much pain, but that is a big ask.
Either way, the long term cannot involve Pulis for me. If we have genuine ambitions to push on then we need to move on from his one dimensional style.

When would be the right time to pull the trigger though? Lets assume Pulis stays and recruits a load more limited 'workhorses'. The next manager / coach will still have a big task to change things around. If we start the season as we finished the last one then I'd be surprised if he sees September out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 01, 2016, 10:06:22 AM
The issue with the wolves takeover is at the moment they look like they don't have a clue what they are doing. Jackett was in and then out.

I'd prefer our lot to not do a thing until they have got a proper plan in place and have met everyone at the club.

The "problem" is playing "stuff" out in the public gaze.
Politics  / shenanigens will go on in all businesses, the key is keeping it in-house. Which our current team are very good at doing.
Frustrating for us as fans, but good on a professional basis. IMO.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on August 01, 2016, 10:49:55 AM
The "problem" is playing "stuff" out in the public gaze.
Politics  / shenanigens will go on in all businesses, the key is keeping it in-house. Which our current team are very good at doing.
Frustrating for us as fans, but good on a professional basis. IMO.

Totally agree. While we are hungry for information, I do like the fact that for the most part the Albion crew keep a lid on things until the right time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on August 01, 2016, 11:41:27 AM
When would be the right time to pull the trigger though? Lets assume Pulis stays and recruits a load more limited 'workhorses'. The next manager / coach will still have a big task to change things around. If we start the season as we finished the last one then I'd be surprised if he sees September out.
As I said mate, we need a very shrewd dude to follow him, someone who can work with the limited abilities of the squad whilst adding a bit of attacking endeavour. As I said, it's a big ask.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 01, 2016, 11:48:41 AM
So this deal should be done before start of season anybody????
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 01, 2016, 11:56:06 AM
As I said mate, we need a very shrewd dude to follow him, someone who can work with the limited abilities of the squad whilst adding a bit of attacking endeavour. As I said, it's a big ask.

Someone with quiet and driven business sense please. Not like Dr. 'Here's me in a villa shirt, we will win the champions league in three seasons' Xia down the road. Just get on with it, make purchases, keep yourself to yourself. No Chinese consortium loves the club as much as us, don't pretend you do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on August 01, 2016, 12:10:06 PM
Someone with quiet and driven business sense please. Not like Dr. 'Here's me in a villa shirt, we will win the champions league in three seasons' Xia down the road. Just get on with it, make purchases, keep yourself to yourself. No Chinese consortium loves the club as much as us, don't pretend you do.

Or worse still those at the Custard Bowl
According to yesterdays Mail the Wolves owners originally wanted us but went for the cheaper alternative
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on August 01, 2016, 12:20:42 PM
Or worse still those at the Custard Bowl
According to yesterdays Mail the Wolves owners originally wanted us but went for the cheaper alternative
Why have a nice steak when you can have a scabby burger?
Dodged a bullet I think.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on August 01, 2016, 12:54:39 PM
So this deal should be done before start of season anybody????
Should be...... but quite which season we don't know!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 01, 2016, 04:42:43 PM
Why have a nice steak when you can have a scabby burger?
Dodged a bullet I think.

I think so too, i wouldn't want Mendez and Zenga anywhere near our club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on August 01, 2016, 05:40:08 PM
Totally agree. While we are hungry for information, I do like the fact that for the most part the Albion crew keep a lid on things until the right time.
perhaps there's nothing to keep a lid on, its a possibility that it is just that. a rumour.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on August 01, 2016, 05:45:37 PM
perhaps there's nothing to keep a lid on, its a possibility that it is just that. a rumour.

There's been so much in the press and no doubt the Albion have received a ton of messages, they would have said something by now if nothing was up.
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on August 01, 2016, 09:14:31 PM
There's been so much in the press and no doubt the Albion have received a ton of messages, they would have said something by now if nothing was up.

Yeah they would have denied too much backlash otherwise
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on August 02, 2016, 07:17:09 AM
Wonder if tomorrow this thread will explode
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: buzzingbaggie on August 02, 2016, 08:05:48 AM
Wonder if tomorrow this thread will explode


Is tomorrow the big day we get our new overlords?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 02, 2016, 08:11:51 AM
Lets hope it is, a lift is needed especially after last night
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 02, 2016, 09:05:47 AM
Wonder if tomorrow this thread will explode

Why is tomorrow significant?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on August 02, 2016, 09:11:26 AM
Why is tomorrow significant?

I think a few people have said that ITK posters from other boards have said that tomorrow is a press conference and a few people here said first week of August - I think!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bigcyrille on August 02, 2016, 10:13:48 AM
My very reliable source tells me the deal will happen in either the next two weeks or will have to be put off for six months, so keep your fingers crossed.
I have no further info at this time
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 02, 2016, 10:30:16 AM
My very reliable source tells me the deal will happen in either the next two weeks or will have to be put off for six months, so keep your fingers crossed.
I have no further info at this time

No offence but that is complete nonsense.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiebuckster on August 02, 2016, 10:35:50 AM
I know that things are unclear but do we assume that a takeover will occur before the Palace game?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on August 02, 2016, 10:36:29 AM
No offence but that is complete nonsense.

Hugh sigh of Relief. is there another clue in your username BAGGIES38 - i.e. 3rd Aug!
or maybe you are just our lucky ITK omen  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kanu on August 02, 2016, 10:40:36 AM
My very reliable source tells me the deal will happen in either the next two weeks or will have to be put off for six months, so keep your fingers crossed.
I have no further info at this time

No, I don't think so!
Why buy in the middle of a season, and if we're hovering round the bottom by then presumably the deal would be off anyway. JP won't do business on those terms.
With all due respect that doesn't sound like a reliable source.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 02, 2016, 10:43:35 AM
Hey 38,thanks for your knowledge along the way,im grateful.
I think I remember you saying that the takeover would happen early august,did you mean this week?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 02, 2016, 10:46:41 AM
Hey 38,thanks for your knowledge along the way,im grateful.
I think I remember you saying that the takeover would happen early august,did you mean this week?

Wasn't told a date my mate just told me all should be done early august.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bigcyrille on August 02, 2016, 10:47:03 AM
No offence but that is complete nonsense.

None taken and it isn't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 02, 2016, 10:51:51 AM
None taken and it isn't.

You must appreciate a few people on here myself included will be a little sceptical when a new poster with 25 posts comes on board and starts making claims. It is the school holidays after all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bigcyrille on August 02, 2016, 11:00:04 AM
You must appreciate a few people on here myself included will be a little sceptical when a new poster with 25 posts comes on board and starts making claims. It is the school holidays after all.

Understandable and I expected to be shot down, I'm a 10+ year lurker. Take it as you wish but thought I'd share as it's good information.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on August 02, 2016, 11:09:03 AM
Takeover or not we need to start spending some money on the squad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 02, 2016, 12:57:41 PM
I think you'll find we already have
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on August 02, 2016, 12:58:49 PM
I think you'll find we already have

Matt Phillips....the average championship player.....no better than what we have now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 02, 2016, 01:03:30 PM
Matt Phillips....the average championship player.....no better than what we have now.

Phillips is a much better option than McManaman or Leko.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on August 02, 2016, 01:06:02 PM
Matt Phillips....the average championship player.....no better than what we have now.

That is simply not true. Phillips is far better than McClean and Gardner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on August 02, 2016, 01:13:36 PM
Phillips is a much better option than McManaman or Leko.

Disagree....old hoofball hasn't given McManaman a chance
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 02, 2016, 01:16:42 PM
Err, Aren't we about to sign Diafra Sakho?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on August 02, 2016, 01:20:18 PM
Err, Aren't we about to sign Diafra Sakho?

Correct and well done to the club....but by all accounts his attitude is dreadful not what we need!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 02, 2016, 01:21:01 PM
Disagree....old hoofball hasn't given McManaman a chance


i totally agree, doesnt help many of our footballers, inc Saido
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 02, 2016, 01:28:29 PM
Disagree....old hoofball hasn't given McManaman a chance

Pulis played him quite a bit when he first signed, but he never did much when he was on the pitch. I remember 1 assist for Brunt away at Burnley and a pen against Leicester...plus a few dives.

He doesn't seem to have the stamina to last a full match or anything over 60 minutes. If he was better he would be considered a luxury player but we can't afford a luxury player with virtually no end product.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on August 02, 2016, 01:47:29 PM
Pulis played him quite a bit when he first signed, but he never did much when he was on the pitch. I remember 1 assist for Brunt away at Burnley and a pen against Leicester...plus a few dives.

He doesn't seem to have the stamina to last a full match or anything over 60 minutes. If he was better he would be considered a luxury player but we can't afford a luxury player with virtually no end product.

Would prefer a luxury player where you don't know what you will get then players like gardner and McLean where you know exactly what you will get. Obviously there is a balance to be had but playing gardner for almost the whole season was a bleeding excercise in masochism.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 02, 2016, 01:53:24 PM
Trying not to be a killjoy, but haven't we wandered off topic a bit? I just pointed out that we were going through the process of spending some money. Doesn't player performance belong on another topic. Just Saying
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 02, 2016, 02:08:01 PM
Trying not to be a killjoy, but haven't we wandered off topic a bit? I just pointed out that we were going through the process of spending some money. Doesn't player performance belong on another topic. Just Saying

How is the mod apprenticeship going ;-)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on August 02, 2016, 02:19:21 PM
Can we get back on topic guys please

there are threads for the players being discussed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 02, 2016, 02:19:29 PM
Disagree....old hoofball hasn't given McManaman a chance

No poor fitness and not able to follow clear instructions has blown McManamans chance. He really only has himself to blame and he also doesn't help himself with the blatant cheating.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 02, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Correct and well done to the club....but by all accounts his attitude is dreadful not what we need!!

There's a few key words there "but by all accounts" fact of the matter is we don't know what he is like. People are just believing what the media have to say about him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 02, 2016, 02:24:16 PM
There's a few key words there "but by all accounts" fact of the matter is we don't know what he is like. People are just believing what the media have to say about him.

In fairness Bilic has let him go for a reason and if the reason is he is worse than Andy Carroll its a concern.
If its another reason, then...... its a concern.

We won't find many with Rondons ability and professionalism IMO.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on August 02, 2016, 02:34:37 PM
Anyone reckon this will be done before our opening game ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on August 02, 2016, 02:37:22 PM
Anyone reckon this will be done before our opening game ?

All guess work except for 38 and he said he soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 02, 2016, 02:42:09 PM
Hey albionic,all clubs get rid of players that don't fit in for many reasons, perhaps he wasn't loved enough or paid enough or the bloke that signed him leaves,
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 02, 2016, 02:55:19 PM
Thought this was the thread about the takeover al I`m reading is what should be on other threads back to the takeover please.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 02, 2016, 03:03:36 PM
Fair enough fella,your quite right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 02, 2016, 03:09:14 PM
How is the mod apprenticeship going ;-)

OK, but I'm not on the shortlist. Far too busy with my other 97 interests. Working my way through my bucket list
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 02, 2016, 04:27:32 PM
Hey albionic,all clubs get rid of players that don't fit in for many reasons, perhaps he wasn't loved enough or paid enough or the bloke that signed him leaves,

So a relationship issue, petulance or wages. Sounds like Saido 2,
I Really hope I'm wrong and he goes on to become a legend.

he'll start with a clean slate anyway !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 02, 2016, 04:34:46 PM
Any supposed ITK people will post as and when anything can be posted, please stop asking them in threads. If you wish to know anything then pm the person you think maybe ITK

We'll just keep reposting this until the message sinks in and removing the posts that ignore it, your choice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on August 02, 2016, 04:59:04 PM
Many of the supposed ITK posters are KFA posters. The first word is Know and the last is All.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 02, 2016, 05:26:57 PM
My best friends brothers best friends father was talking to his mate who said I got a email from the gateman at the baggies training ground a couple of days ago and he said he had been told by a good contact at the stadium who works in the club shop that a Chinese gentleman was talking to an Albion official about the takeover and he said it would happen eventually.  So I must be in the know as I got this first hand from my best friend.SO ALL WILL BE REVIELD SHORTLY.I wonder how rummers start. Just thought I`d lighten the mood a bit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 02, 2016, 05:37:55 PM
Many of the supposed ITK posters are KFA posters. The first word is Know and the last is All.  ;D

To be honest chap, I'd say that's unkind. if you work all day & every day in offices as the Albion, you're going to hear snippets of information, & if you hear the same snippet day after day, there's a good chance it's got legs. Without doubt, if there is a sale in the offing, most of the negotiations will have taken place "off site", but at some stage, the new owner, or at least one of his representatives will want to see what he or she are buying, so they'll make an appearance.
So to say ITK posters know nothing is false, but it's highly unlikely they'll know everything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on August 02, 2016, 06:00:02 PM
To be honest chap, I'd say that's unkind. if you work all day & every day in offices as the Albion, you're going to hear snippets of information, & if you hear the same snippet day after day, there's a good chance it's got legs. Without doubt, if there is a sale in the offing, most of the negotiations will have taken place "off site", but at some stage, the new owner, or at least one of his representatives will want to see what he or she are buying, so they'll make an appearance.
So to say ITK posters know nothing is false, but it's highly unlikely they'll know everything.

That's gossip - a big difference to being ITK
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on August 02, 2016, 08:02:23 PM
So what are the feelings of everybody regarding this takeover, do you feel that tomorrow we will hear something about it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 02, 2016, 08:03:53 PM
listened to WM phone in tonight, not a mention or a rumour what so ever
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on August 02, 2016, 08:06:54 PM
So what are the feelings of everybody regarding this takeover, do you feel that tomorrow we will hear something about it?
Only on here, doubt anything official will be revealed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 02, 2016, 08:12:25 PM
listened to WM phone in tonight, not a mention or a rumour what so ever

I tuned in too. Some absolute whoppers ring in...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on August 02, 2016, 08:16:04 PM
To be honest chap, I'd say that's unkind. if you work all day & every day in offices as the Albion, you're going to hear snippets of information, & if you hear the same snippet day after day, there's a good chance it's got legs. Without doubt, if there is a sale in the offing, most of the negotiations will have taken place "off site", but at some stage, the new owner, or at least one of his representatives will want to see what he or she are buying, so they'll make an appearance.
So to say ITK posters know nothing is false, but it's highly unlikely they'll know everything.
Fair enough John. But the other day you said only Peace would know.And I intimated it would be hard to keep "Mum"?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 02, 2016, 08:16:32 PM
I'm still waiting for the couldn't agree terms quote due anytime soon.

I never build my hopes up on signing players or takeovers if Mr Peace is involved.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RICH ONE on August 02, 2016, 08:45:08 PM
Normally rely on John Percy for any news as he is normally spot on . But doubt even he knows what is happening with this possible takeover
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dudleylad on August 02, 2016, 09:20:18 PM
A takeover is something we as fans must be calm about, its something out of our hands.

At the moment with the money being floated around in English football and the potential riches of owning an English club our board will be on the look out to try and stave off any 'charletons' out for a quick earner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 02, 2016, 09:36:52 PM
Fair enough John. But the other day you said only Peace would know.And I intimated it would be hard to keep "Mum"?

It all depends how far it's got Glos, Even with the situation I described, it's still only supposition. I was on the executive of a company involved in two takeovers, I only found out about the first when it was done & dusted, & even then only because I queried a "stupid" discount which the CEO had given to the seller. I had more knowledge of the second, because it was big & I was part of the incorporation team, but again only after it was complete.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on August 02, 2016, 11:41:19 PM
All very strange the journo's have nothing more to add
Not a whisper .........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 02, 2016, 11:43:33 PM
Think the brexit is holding up sale as buyer's could be waiting for sterling to drop a further few points on the dollar?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 02, 2016, 11:45:40 PM
company i work for too, there was rumours of a takeover... nothing was said, then one day some new stupid rules popped up, and the manager said they are rules of our new owner... we didnt even know we had actually been taken over... it was kept quiet until after it had happened
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 02, 2016, 11:48:25 PM
i thought Brexit, was encouraging the takeover as they get us cheaper.
So you have JP wanting a bit more, and a bit more... getting greedy.
And you have the new owners holding off wanting to get us a bit more cheaper and hoping the pound drops a bit more and a bit more

like tug of war lol...whos going to be the one who falls flat on their backside first?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 02, 2016, 11:51:54 PM
hope this press conference happens tomorrow or we also hear this mid week/early august news...and that its good news :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 03, 2016, 12:02:40 AM
Can I just say, formal acquisition or not, we do seem to be prepared to spend money on new players. Even if Saido leaves, I could see a net spend of around £60 million on 4 players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 03, 2016, 12:57:38 AM
i thought Brexit, was encouraging the takeover as they get us cheaper.
So you have JP wanting a bit more, and a bit more... getting greedy.
And you have the new owners holding off wanting to get us a bit more cheaper and hoping the pound drops a bit more and a bit more

like tug of war lol...whos going to be the one who falls flat on their backside first?
buyers holds all the cards at this stage as deal said to be agreed in principle by itks so unless jp gives them a ultimatum then it's let's wait and see how sterling is doing against the dollar
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 03, 2016, 01:08:11 AM
Surely if there was going to be an announcement Wednesday or a press conference at 11... Then something would be in the papers about it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 03, 2016, 02:36:03 AM
Surely if there was going to be an announcement Wednesday or a press conference at 11... Then something would be in the papers about it?

No not the case. In most cases football clubs call press conferences extremely close some times even the same day as a press conference because if it we're to come out days before there's going to be a strong chance that there will be media speculation regarding it. Let's just wait and see
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 03, 2016, 08:05:17 AM
Got a feeling this is going to be "under the radar" for a while yet, that's if anything is happening at all
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 03, 2016, 08:48:26 AM
Hey guys,feel a little deflated this morning I felt that things were hotting up regarding the sale,but no news this morning.
Perhaps I was expecting too much today.
The ups and downs of being a baggie eh?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on August 03, 2016, 09:12:08 AM
Hey guys,feel a little deflated this morning I felt that things were hotting up regarding the sale,but no news this morning.
Perhaps I was expecting too much today.
The ups and downs of being a baggie eh?

It's only 9am! May not go through yet may not even be today but it appears we're active in the transfer market and looking to land Taylor from Leeds.

The one thing i've learned as a Baggie as a key life skill is this - patience. Have it, and have lots of it!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on August 03, 2016, 09:23:35 AM
On the basis that I am getting married later today, I have enough excitement going on for a Wednesday!

On the other hand, if it happened today, it wouldn't be a date I'd ever forget!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 03, 2016, 09:39:24 AM
Many congratulations closely,but hey believe me you won't forget today!
Best wishes for a happy and peaceful marriage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on August 03, 2016, 09:42:05 AM
On the basis that I am getting married later today, I have enough excitement going on for a Wednesday!

On the other hand, if it happened today, it wouldn't be a date I'd ever forget!!

Congratulations - all the very best to you both.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Cantello on August 03, 2016, 10:17:52 AM
All the best for your wedding :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 03, 2016, 10:17:59 AM
Guess the press conference at 11 isn't happening?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on August 03, 2016, 10:23:20 AM
All this FA doing the fit and proper thing is the reason for the hold up is wrong. Leeds and wolves let it be known they had been taken over and the FA checks were done after I think.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 03, 2016, 10:25:26 AM
On the basis that I am getting married later today, I have enough excitement going on for a Wednesday!

On the other hand, if it happened today, it wouldn't be a date I'd ever forget!!

Enjoy your day and your married life, Kidda.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 03, 2016, 10:30:16 AM
All this FA doing the fit and proper thing is the reason for the hold up is wrong. Leeds and wolves let it be known they had been taken over and the FA checks were done after I think.

Eh? What's the reason for the hold up then?

If it's with the FA for checks, we'll announce the takeover when we're done. Leeds announced a takeover early, their Chairman failed the test and that led to massive instability behind the scenes. I'd rather know it's done when we're 100% sure it's completed and no issues, than announce it and then have a huge media sh*t show over an improper owner test.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 03, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
Guess the press conference at 11 isn't happening?
Don't recall anyone saying there was going to be a press conference at 11?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 03, 2016, 11:06:59 AM
Eh? What's the reason for the hold up then?

If it's with the FA for checks, we'll announce the takeover when we're done. Leeds announced a takeover early, their Chairman failed the test and that led to massive instability behind the scenes. I'd rather know it's done when we're 100% sure it's completed and no issues, than announce it and then have a huge media sh*t show over an improper owner test.

Perhaps it's not that though, perhaps it's something else? The Brexit fall-out is starting to happen now, & the Chinese economy is taking a nose dive, perhaps it's that?
Or perhaps nobody's made an announcement because there's nothing to announce?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 03, 2016, 11:08:14 AM
I don't see any panic, news releases etc. as a press release today was based on the assumption by one poster that 3 and 8 are considered to be lucky numbers, hence 3rd August. We might as well assume that the purchaser (if there is one and is they are Chinese) will move the pitch at angle of 23 degrees for feng shui to be in harmony with the river Tame in Sandwell Valley ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 03, 2016, 11:10:28 AM
Perhaps it's not that though, perhaps it's something else? The Brexit fall-out is starting to happen now, & the Chinese economy is taking a nose dive, perhaps it's that?
Or perhaps nobody's made an announcement because there's nothing to announce?


The latest economic forecasts for CHina predict a 7% growth rate and an improving economy
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 03, 2016, 11:14:32 AM
I don't see any panic, news releases etc. as a press release today was based on the assumption by one poster that 3 and 8 are considered to be lucky numbers, hence 3rd August. We might as well assume that the purchaser (if there is one and is they are Chinese) will move the pitch at angle of 23 degrees for feng shui to be in harmony with the river Tame in Sandwell Valley ;D

That's where the new ground's going to be. If you look at the geography, you've got the Newton Road, the railway line, the M6 & M5 crossing the tame, & the canal crossing them all.
It's got to be a crossroads of life sign surely?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 03, 2016, 11:22:39 AM
That's where the new ground's going to be. If you look at the geography, you've got the Newton Road, the railway line, the M6 & M5 crossing the tame, & the canal crossing them all.
It's got to be a crossroads of life sign surely?

Well blow me down with a feather, I knew there was something in it, and I suppose we'll all be able to get there by water another sure sign of harmony (which is more than I can say for our supporters)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on August 03, 2016, 03:03:06 PM
On the basis that I am getting married later today, I have enough excitement going on for a Wednesday!

On the other hand, if it happened today, it wouldn't be a date I'd ever forget!!
congratulations bab have wonderful day
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggiegirl81 on August 03, 2016, 03:34:34 PM
I'm new to the forum- today in fact and I've been reading a lot of things about the takeover. I've read through a lot of the comments and I'm still none of the wiser. I guess its a simple case of suck it and see
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 03, 2016, 03:59:26 PM
I'm new to the forum- today in fact and I've been reading a lot of things about the takeover. I've read through a lot of the comments and I'm still none of the wiser. I guess its a simple case of suck it and see
Welcome to the forum!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 03, 2016, 04:21:22 PM
I'm new to the forum- today in fact and I've been reading a lot of things about the takeover. I've read through a lot of the comments and I'm still none of the wiser. I guess its a simple case of suck it and see
Welcome to the mad house.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on August 03, 2016, 04:25:25 PM
I still cannot see a takeover happening.Its too quiet there is absolutely not a mention of anything.I bet mr peace is laughing his socks off.I really hope im wrong but it gave us all or some of us a couple of weeks of maybe having a fantasy football team.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 03, 2016, 04:36:13 PM
He`s laughing his socks of at you . You were the one who`s reliable contact said it was last week, lets just wait and see, if it happens it happens if not we carry on as usual.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: adamw1109 on August 03, 2016, 04:39:32 PM
I still cannot see a takeover happening.Its too quiet there is absolutely not a mention of anything.I bet mr peace is laughing his socks off.I really hope im wrong but it gave us all or some of us a couple of weeks of maybe having a fantasy football team.

More reason to think something is going on.

Any West Brom fan by now should know the only things that happen with the club are the things that are kept under wraps til almost 100% completed!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 03, 2016, 04:47:32 PM
welcome baggiegirl81 quite new myself had a watching brief for years but now I enjoy putting in my few comments in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on August 03, 2016, 04:52:52 PM
Yes that's right pollard and I still  cannot contact the guy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 03, 2016, 04:56:21 PM
I'm new to the forum- today in fact and I've been reading a lot of things about the takeover. I've read through a lot of the comments and I'm still none of the wiser. I guess its a simple case of suck it and see


yes thats how i see it suck it and see
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 03, 2016, 05:00:05 PM
Sorry newbaggie no offence meant just saying we should wait and see.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on August 03, 2016, 05:02:18 PM
None taken mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lonions on August 03, 2016, 05:07:42 PM
Lots of people saying its all off. Anyone know for sure?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 03, 2016, 05:23:53 PM
Lots of folk need to give their head a wobble.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggiegirl81 on August 03, 2016, 05:25:54 PM
Welcome to the mad house.

Thank you  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggiegirl81 on August 03, 2016, 05:27:16 PM
welcome baggiegirl81 quite new myself had a watching brief for years but now I enjoy putting in my few comments in.

Thanks want to get involved with people who know what they are talking about
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggiegirl81 on August 03, 2016, 05:29:12 PM
Welcome to the forum!

Thank you  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 03, 2016, 05:29:50 PM
Thanks want to get involved with people who know what they are talking about

You may find yourself sorely disappointed on that front  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on August 03, 2016, 05:47:11 PM
It does seem to have gone very quiet, no rumours etc. I guess it's one of those things that could run and run well into the new season
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: macc_baggie on August 03, 2016, 05:52:55 PM
I don't understand why it "going quiet" makes people think it's off?

It's at no point been noisy really, apart from the furore whipped up on here. As far as I can tell nothing has changed in terms of the volume of media publications about a potential takeover in the last 3 months.

I'll await an announcement from the club, if they decide to make one at all.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnthebaggie on August 03, 2016, 05:57:56 PM
To be honest I'm not sure it's ever been on. There's been nothing concrete from anywhere and the only fact seems to be that no one is really "in the know" about it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 03, 2016, 06:03:19 PM
JP likes you to buy your ST's.

Have we signed Sakho yet?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 03, 2016, 06:18:22 PM
You may find yourself sorely disappointed on that front  ;D

Beat me to it by 45 minutes  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: east-stand-nick on August 03, 2016, 06:20:09 PM
People say it's "gone quiet"...I can't recall it not being quiet!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 03, 2016, 06:43:30 PM
The future's not ours to see, oh well not to worry......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxoVRTwlNg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxoVRTwlNg)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggiegirl81 on August 03, 2016, 06:52:13 PM
Beat me to it by 45 minutes  :)

You lot are more sensible and knowledgeable than others I have spoken to
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 03, 2016, 07:31:57 PM
A posters contact on another website posted in May before most people read a takeover could be happening, that it was happening and nearly done with chinese buyers.He then goes on to say The vile sale and a few other things  put a spanner  in the works. But then about 4 to 5 weeks ago it was nearly completed but would not be announced until the 6th or 7th of August he questioned the dates as they fell on a weekend and was told hopefully that week. Then this evening he says an app is going on our website this Friday No names given yet. I believe that tallies up to roughly what baggie38 been saying so now we will see on Friday
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 03, 2016, 07:41:24 PM
Would like to be wrong but think it is all smoke and mirrors. Am finding it very hard to believe there is any take over in the offing. Total lack of any hint in the media, nowt from the club,would love to be wrong but i cant in this day and age see that it can be kept this quiet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on August 03, 2016, 07:51:15 PM
it WILL happened, I think its down to the transfer window that they are not announcing it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kiddiebaggie on August 03, 2016, 07:59:29 PM
Baggie38 said wait and see, someone off WBAUnofficial said Wednesday, the message on other board meant apparently
it will be on our website Friday, I think
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 03, 2016, 08:04:35 PM
That's what I`m also led to believe kiddiebaggie
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 03, 2016, 09:03:38 PM
A posters contact on another website posted in May before most people read a takeover could be happening, that it was happening and nearly done with chinese buyers.He then goes on to say The vile sale and a few other things  put a spanner  in the works. But then about 4 to 5 weeks ago it was nearly completed but would not be announced until the 6th or 7th of August he questioned the dates as they fell on a weekend and was told hopefully that week. Then this evening he says an app is going on our website this Friday No names given yet. I believe that tallies up to roughly what baggie38 been saying so now we will see on Friday

TATA?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on August 03, 2016, 09:46:02 PM
Anyone think the new owners might want to announce new signings at the same time as the club take over, and  that is prolonging the issue?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on August 03, 2016, 09:49:30 PM
Anyone think the new owners might want to announce new signings at the same time as the club take over, and  that is prolonging the issue?
. Nice one good call . Could well be it would be a good coupe for new owners
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on August 03, 2016, 10:29:21 PM
I think what people need to be careful with is that people are not buying us beacuse they want west bromwich Albion to win football matches.. There here for profit and there gain and nothing else. Sometimes we lose sight of this fact.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 03, 2016, 10:39:15 PM
I think what people need to be careful with is that people are not buying us beacuse they want west bromwich Albion to win football matches.. There here for profit and there gain and nothing else. Sometimes we lose sight of this fact.

Not being funny mate, but if I'd spent between £150 & £200 million on a football club, I'd want to make a profit & win matches. What I wouldn't be quite so bothered about is the style we adopted to do it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 03, 2016, 11:04:44 PM
I agree BJ... Winning teams make money through sponsorship, gates, TV revenue. It is what people invest for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 03, 2016, 11:20:27 PM
So all gone very quiet on the #takeoverofwba hmm
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on August 03, 2016, 11:44:31 PM
I agree BJ... Winning teams make money through sponsorship, gates, TV revenue. It is what people invest for.

Style of play was widely touted as being a factor in the Swansea sale. Just saying.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 03, 2016, 11:45:20 PM
Got a feeling the winds of the last few days have blown a number of WUM's onto this site. Strange really. I was having a look over on Mol Mix the other day and there was a thread highlighting our very own Dingle thread. There was something of a conspiracy theory going on regard the amount of newbies on their site and a suggestion they were Baggies in disguise. Low and behold we have an influx of new members. Funny that.........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 04, 2016, 05:53:59 AM
New members or not if we haven't heard anything by Friday we can hang the Bear Stew sign out again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 04, 2016, 08:21:51 AM
New members or not if we haven't heard anything by Friday we can hang the Bear Stew sign out again.

Why Friday?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on August 04, 2016, 09:42:57 AM
The spending pattern and slow recruitment suggests nothing is changing.
If money was being injected, player recruitment would have been positive for once.
The clubs behavior in the market is the same, and the look of plugging gaps more than a vision.
By the way tomorrow never comes, and im ready for paint drying season the second.
COYB
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 04, 2016, 09:46:15 AM
The spending pattern and slow recruitment suggests nothing is changing.
If money was being injected, player recruitment would have been positive for once.
The clubs behavior in the market is the same, and the look of plugging gaps more than a vision.
By the way tomorrow never comes, and im ready for paint drying season the second.
COYB

We're about to make our record signing with Sakho and it's hardly our fault if Leicester and Leeds are playing hardball with players we've targetted?

What do you suggest we do?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kanu on August 04, 2016, 09:51:32 AM
We're about to make our record signing with Sakho and it's hardly our fault if Leicester and Leeds are playing hardball with players we've targetted?

What do you suggest we do?

I suggest we have a better scouting system, a more proactive recruitment team and a more professional PR team that communicate with the fans.
This transfer inactivity is pathetic, it happens every bloody year! We may or may not be about to break our transfer spend but if it happens it will be followed by our record transfer sale.
People have the right to show concern.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: palmaroy on August 04, 2016, 09:52:29 AM
I'm going with the Sacko announcement is going to be linked with a takeover announcement.It would be a big statement and the football world would take notice.
Just wishful thinking or too much to drink last night
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on August 04, 2016, 09:54:12 AM
Formulate a plan early then execute quickly
Have a plan b to go to
Get off their fat ariss and do something positive rather wait for it to happen
Make it look like the club knows whats doing Bid, agree terms and have a team ready for the medical its called professionalism.
By the way we always have a major money signing each year Brown then Rondon for examples
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 04, 2016, 10:02:07 AM
I suggest we have a better scouting system, a more proactive recruitment team and a more professional PR team that communicate with the fans.
This transfer inactivity is pathetic, it happens every bloody year! We may or may not be about to break our transfer spend but if it happens it will be followed by our record transfer sale.
People have the right to show concern.

but we aren't inactive in the transfer market are we. We've signed one,  have another having a medical, we've had bids turned down and I'm sure there is plenty going on behind the scenes. This year just seems to be a strange year for every club around our level with hardly any sides getting players in, it's not just us..maybe there's a reason for that?

Our record sale will I'm sure start the ball rolling for more players coming in.

Maybe the protracted takeover is holding things up a tad I don't know but we are at least trying to get players in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieVN on August 04, 2016, 10:03:16 AM
The spending pattern and slow recruitment suggests nothing is changing.
If money was being injected, player recruitment would have been positive for once.
The clubs behavior in the market is the same, and the look of plugging gaps more than a vision.
By the way tomorrow never comes, and im ready for paint drying season the second.
COYB

Completely disagree. This feels like the first window we've had in a long time where the club is focused on buying genuine quality rather than just buying people like Sessegnon or Anichebe because they're available last minute and we need more players. Over the past three seasons we've wasted a lot of money and there's an obvious determination not to make this mistake again.

The club has also done its best to avoid the press getting wind of things going on behind the scenes. So just because one new addition is about to become two, doesn't mean that that's all we're focusing on.

By the end of the transfer window I think we'll have four or five new players in place, all of them quality.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on August 04, 2016, 10:04:04 AM
Only seem inactive in the transfer market because the club don't make any official comments all of our news comes from elsewhere, there will be plenty going on behind the scenes but we are one of the few clubs that manage to keep most of our deals under wraps until virtually done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 04, 2016, 10:04:46 AM
I suggest we have a better scouting system, a more proactive recruitment team and a more professional PR team that communicate with the fans.
This transfer inactivity is pathetic, it happens every bloody year! We may or may not be about to break our transfer spend but if it happens it will be followed by our record transfer sale.
People have the right to show concern.

Right. So what's should this more professional PR team do?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 04, 2016, 10:06:18 AM
Only seem inactive in the transfer market because the club don't make any official comments all of our news comes from elsewhere, there will be plenty going on behind the scenes but we are one of the few clubs that manage to keep most of our deals under wraps until virtually done.
Which is very easy when you dont sign anybody  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 04, 2016, 10:09:49 AM
Completely disagree. This feels like the first window we've had in a long time where the club is focused on buying genuine quality rather than just buying people like Sessegnon or Anichebe because they're available last minute and we need more players. Over the past three seasons we've wasted a lot of money and there's an obvious determination not to make this mistake again.

The club has also done its best to avoid the press getting wind of things going on behind the scenes. So just because one new addition is about to become two, doesn't mean that that's all we're focusing on.

By the end of the transfer window I think we'll have four or five new players in place, all of them quality.


Excellent post, nice to see we're attracting more Guardian readers & welcome to the forum, stand by to repel the "Peace is a tardy tight git" brigade though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 04, 2016, 10:11:04 AM
Formulate a plan early then execute quickly
Have a plan b to go to
Get off their fat ariss and do something positive rather wait for it to happen
Make it look like the club knows whats doing Bid, agree terms and have a team ready for the medical its called professionalism.
By the way we always have a major money signing each year Brown then Rondon for examples

Surely we are being positive by bidding for players?
We have bid for players, we've signed one and another is having a medical I'd call that profesional.
it's easy to say bid, agree terms etc but transfers aren't that simple are they? It would be easy if we were a bigger club or the clubs we contact about players were willing to sell but sometimes they don't want to sell their better players. Take Schlupp for example Leicester don't seem to want to sell so while we make a better offer we have also identified Taylor for Leeds, who don't want to sell their best player as it will affect their chances of getting promotion...how is any of that the fault of West Bromwich Albion?

So much of the clubs business is done behind closed doors and that's just the way of business.

yes we do have a major money signing every year , good isn't it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 04, 2016, 10:13:17 AM
i dont think the sakho signing is anything to do with a takeover, we have a few more quid to spend on the back of TV money, our net spend will be lower than last season me thinks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 04, 2016, 10:16:39 AM
You am always down Glyn, cheer up me mon. You nor I know what is going on behind the closed doors of the Hawthorns.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieVN on August 04, 2016, 10:18:26 AM

Excellent post, nice to see we're attracting more Guardian readers & welcome to the forum, stand by to repel the "Peace is a tardy tight git" brigade though.

Been following the forum for the past four or five years and am well aware of the Peace is a tardy tight got brigade. Makes for interesting reading. Love the Guardian reader comment. :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 04, 2016, 10:38:32 AM
Completely disagree. This feels like the first window we've had in a long time where the club is focused on buying genuine quality rather than just buying people like Sessegnon or Anichebe because they're available last minute and we need more players. Over the past three seasons we've wasted a lot of money and there's an obvious determination not to make this mistake again.

The club has also done its best to avoid the press getting wind of things going on behind the scenes. So just because one new addition is about to become two, doesn't mean that that's all we're focusing on.

By the end of the transfer window I think we'll have four or five new players in place, all of them quality.

Good post.

This thread is making me chuckle quite a bit really..... not sure what the fans want - do you want the 'supermarket sweep' purchasing frenzy of a couple of years ago? I know I don't. We have been after Phillips some time now and we got him. And now we have him he is already classed as average, and hardly any of us have seen him play for the team yet! If Sahko is confirmed that that could potentially be a class signing, but we are already pointing out his 'bad boy' deficiencies, and we are speculating wildly about the proposed takeover.

Lets give JP and the potential new owners a bit of credit here. If indeed we are about to be taken over, then why would we announce it earlier than we really need to? It will just double any perspective transfer fees because 'we can afford it'. If/when it does happen I really hope we don't declare a war chest of cash like the dingles did......its no ones business. Shrewd businessmen are  [hopefully] at work here and we just need to let them get on with it.....

Its a game of chess......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on August 04, 2016, 10:47:22 AM
Moving this topic back towards the takeover, you'd hope that something would come out by the end of tomorrow/beginning of next week. If we get to the start of the season without any news I will be slightly worried.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: nick_wba on August 04, 2016, 11:09:01 AM
Moving this topic back towards the takeover, you'd hope that something would come out by the end of tomorrow/beginning of next week. If we get to the start of the season without any news I will be slightly worried.

But why? If there is no news, then that's it, there is no news and it's business as usual. What do you expect the club to say if there is nothing to announce?

There is more evidence to suggest that this 'takeover' is a fantasy of the supporters than there actually being a takeover.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 04, 2016, 11:31:22 AM
If there is no takeover, then why don't JP come out and clear things up and tell us there is no takeover?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionDaz on August 04, 2016, 11:36:10 AM
This topic is getting painful,why can't you wait for an announcement,its almost as bad as those Albion Fans on twitter,begging Wanda to take us over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on August 04, 2016, 11:36:29 AM
But why? If there is no news, then that's it, there is no news and it's business as usual. What do you expect the club to say if there is nothing to announce?

There is more evidence to suggest that this 'takeover' is a fantasy of the supporters than there actually being a takeover.
If there's nothing to announce why don't they put us out of our misery like last year and say so, instead of letting us all speculate who, when and if a take over is imminent.
It might even help with transfers if clubs definitely know its business as usual at the Albion, and no chance of a sugar daddy paying even more inflated fees.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on August 04, 2016, 11:38:56 AM
We're well past the point of last year where we said it wasn't going ahead.

So either nothing has ever been going on (unlikely), or something is close to happening and we just have to be patient
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 04, 2016, 11:44:45 AM
 The difference was last year it was announced before it fell through if anything is going on they do not want to be caught out again, so they will be keeping it all under wraps until the I`s are dotted and the T`s are crossed and why should JP come out and state there`s no takeover when he`s got nothing to deny, because he hasn't said there is a takeover even if many believe something is happening including me. Until its announced its all hearsay.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on August 04, 2016, 11:46:58 AM
We're well past the point of last year where we said it wasn't going ahead.

So either nothing has ever been going on (unlikely), or something is close to happening and we just have to be patient
Never been good at that, I always had to sneek a peek at me christmas presents.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 04, 2016, 11:50:03 AM
But why? If there is no news, then that's it, there is no news and it's business as usual. What do you expect the club to say if there is nothing to announce?

There is more evidence to suggest that this 'takeover' is a fantasy of the supporters than there actually being a takeover.

Mods, we just have to get a like button  :) is the best I can do
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 04, 2016, 11:53:25 AM
Mods, we just have to get a like button  :) is the best I can do

I think that if there is definitely NO TAKEOVER then the Club would clear the air with the fans as the rumour mill is so much in over drive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 04, 2016, 11:53:53 AM
Mods, we just have to get a like button  :) is the best I can do

Sometimes your best is good enough! :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 04, 2016, 11:58:41 AM
Can I just say, if we going through the process of being acquired, & the company doing the acquiring is worth billions, then the chances are, they will have other issues to deal with. As a consequence, the acquisition of WBAFC might not be a priority right now. On the other hand, they will want to continue dialogue, & ensure that they protect their interests.

Just saying
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 04, 2016, 12:09:52 PM
The club will carry on being up for sale until it's sold as Peace wants out. So this thread could be going for a few years yet so buckle up
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 04, 2016, 12:15:38 PM
Maybe it shows that the only ones who know if anything is actually going on are those that would be involved in anything, the club are very tightlipped on almost everything these days due to in the past people posting everything on Facebook and Twitter.

If something is going to happen it will, if its not it won't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 04, 2016, 12:23:20 PM
If there is no takeover, then why don't JP come out and clear things up and tell us there is no takeover?

Why? Why should he? He hasn't said anything about a takeover so why should he come out and say 'yup nothing to see here'. If he'd been screaming from the rooftops about it then yes, tell us if it fails. But that's like me criticising you for not telling me you're not coming to my birthday party when you never said you were and I didn't ask you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie953 on August 04, 2016, 12:35:24 PM
All this whinging and moaning is based on speculation that we could be sold.

When the club have something to announce they will officially do so, in the meantime chill out and maybe speculate who is going to fill the void at Left back!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 04, 2016, 12:46:51 PM
All this whinging and moaning is based on speculation that we could be sold.

When the club have something to announce they will officially do so, in the meantime chill out and maybe speculate who is going to fill the void at Left back!

Brunt, who's played better there than our last two 'actual' left backs?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 04, 2016, 12:59:50 PM
Brunt, who's played better there than our last two 'actual' left backs?

Still a gaping void with Brunty there sadly, as much as I love the guy, never a left back in a million years. People do seem to have a strange knack of forgetting his utter howlers last season that cost us a good many goals.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 04, 2016, 01:08:25 PM
Still a gaping void with Brunty there sadly, as much as I love the guy, never a left back in a million years. People do seem to have a strange knack of forgetting his utter howlers last season that cost us a good many goals.

Poor header at Old Trafford aside from that drawing a blank.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on August 04, 2016, 01:21:43 PM
Poor header at Old Trafford aside from that drawing a blank.

Palace away got done by Zaha time after time. Gave the penalty away.

Everton at home should really have done more to stop the crosses of the last 2 goals.

Liverpool away failed to win the header for the first goal.

Chelsea away - First goal failed to track his runner at the far post.

Reading away - 3rd goal he just stopped running.

It's a position where we desperately need a specialist freeing Brunt to challenge for the LM spot.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bigrob80 on August 04, 2016, 01:24:35 PM
I'm glad I am in Greece this week with limited internet access!
Some of the comments posted  :o
Hope I have some news when I get back next week! Boing Boing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 04, 2016, 01:25:11 PM
I still wake up in cold sweats thinking about the Crystal Palace game. Zaha made to look like Messi.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on August 04, 2016, 01:29:31 PM
But why? If there is no news, then that's it, there is no news and it's business as usual. What do you expect the club to say if there is nothing to announce?

There is more evidence to suggest that this 'takeover' is a fantasy of the supporters than there actually being a takeover.

That's a very naive way to look at things. If you know anything about our club, you would appreciate that we do not go public with ANY business we conduct unless it benefits us. How is leaking info of a takeover going to benefit WBA? A few impatient supporters get satiated but that is to the detriment of any deal that is potentially on the table. The silence is golden. Why? Because the local press will be asking for the same info that we all want, they have obviously been told nothing. No denials or rebuttals, which is the giveaway. If we weren't in negotiations, the club would have shut the rumour down. The only evidence you should be looking at is the change of residence of our chairman. Do you think he's moving to Jersey as an expat or to protect his investment? This is he only evidence you need to look at. 

This topic is getting painful,why can't you wait for an announcement,its almost as bad as those Albion Fans on twitter,begging Wanda to take us over.

Completely agree. It's "David Brent" cringe-worthy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on August 04, 2016, 01:30:58 PM
Poor header at Old Trafford aside from that drawing a blank.

To be fair, I like Brunt but Zaha absolutely rinsed him. Everyone has an off day though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on August 04, 2016, 01:39:04 PM
Official Takeover Thread ????
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 04, 2016, 01:40:15 PM
Beat me to it baggyman 68
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 04, 2016, 01:49:00 PM
Official Takeover Thread ????

Totally agree, if folk cannot stick to the topic then maybe we will have to lock the thread until something happens one way or the other.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: we8seals on August 04, 2016, 01:52:18 PM
Totally agree, if folk cannot stick to the topic then maybe we will have to lock the thread until something happens one way or the other.

may as well throw away the key!  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 04, 2016, 02:11:02 PM
I just give up on it all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 04, 2016, 03:05:53 PM
I just give up on it all.

Maybe we should have an "unofficial" takeover thread  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 04, 2016, 03:12:12 PM
All a bit of a yawn at the moment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on August 04, 2016, 03:50:57 PM
Have we explored the links between the potential takeover and the Sakho deal being cancelled? That ought to keep a few of you busy for an hour or so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 04, 2016, 05:11:26 PM
Have we explored the links between the potential takeover and the Sakho deal being cancelled? That ought to keep a few of you busy for an hour or so.

You mean like people saying it failed because new owners pulled out and JP didn't want to pay out that much himself?
Or maybe it failed, because new owners said to cancel the bid as they are willing to pay more for a better player?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 04, 2016, 05:15:31 PM
So we got more money than this time last year, a smaller squad, take over rumours still lingering... And 4 weeks left of transfer window.... And a lot more unhappy fans. Plus a manager who don't know if he staying or going, a chairman who wants to leave, and our most expensive player left in limbo and runs risk of having him leave for free next season.
Something needs to be done very soon, to help lift the place/fans
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 04, 2016, 05:25:28 PM
Hi Zebidee   just think if some ITK people are correct things will be changing shortly and if things don't change there`s worse going on in the world so just smile and carry on
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 04, 2016, 05:51:10 PM
If things are to be believed, then tomorrow will be the day we find out if we are eating beef steaks or Bear Stew next season.

Still no sign of any statement from the club, so i remain doubtful.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on August 04, 2016, 06:05:33 PM
One day all these ITK's will be right .today ,tomorrow ,next week , end of next month . And when or if it  happens it will be I told you .  I'm not knocking but if you know something like an actual date , a name or someone then spill . And put all of us suffering fans out of our misery Thanks !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on August 04, 2016, 06:13:08 PM
So we got more money than this time last year, a smaller squad, take over rumours still lingering... And 4 weeks left of transfer window.... And a lot more unhappy fans. Plus a manager who don't know if he staying or going, a chairman who wants to leave, and our most expensive player left in limbo and runs risk of having him leave for free next season.
Something needs to be done very soon, to help lift the place/fans

Sorry I must have missed the part where Pulis doesnt know if he wants to be here...

Also JP doesnt necessarily want to leave, he just wants to sell to further the club, if any takeover doesnt happen JP is more than happy to continue as far as I can see

Where do people get their ideas from??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 04, 2016, 07:07:16 PM
Sorry I must have missed the part where Pulis doesnt know if he wants to be here...

Also JP doesnt necessarily want to leave, he just wants to sell to further the club, if any takeover doesnt happen JP is more than happy to continue as far as I can see

Where do people get their ideas from??

Too much spare time, vivid imagination, conspiracy theory, computer games, facebook, twaddle, wanting to know everything now, entitlement, PC shall I go on
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: shortybaggies on August 04, 2016, 07:35:07 PM
Sorry I must have missed the part where Pulis doesnt know if he wants to be here...

Also JP doesnt necessarily want to leave, he just wants to sell to further the club, if any takeover doesnt happen JP is more than happy to continue as far as I can see

Where do people get their ideas from??

With TP, I think he meant the one year remaining on his contract
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on August 04, 2016, 07:53:10 PM
Can we just close the thread already. Then open it once we hear anything.

You'll be saving me a lot of time  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 04, 2016, 08:34:13 PM
Sorry I must have missed the part where Pulis doesnt know if he wants to be here...

Also JP doesnt necessarily want to leave, he just wants to sell to further the club, if any takeover doesnt happen JP is more than happy to continue as far as I can see

Where do people get their ideas from??

Yes, you must have. It was in the E&S and Pulis said he hadn't discussed a new contract because things were happening at the club and he was uncertain of his future.
But it was in the E&S, not a very reliable paper, they only talk about Wolves takeover and signings and nothing at all about our takeover and signings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 04, 2016, 08:41:56 PM
Yes, you must have. It was in the E&S and Pulis said he hadn't discussed a new contract because things were happening at the club and he was uncertain of his future.
But it was in the E&S, not a very reliable paper, they only talk about Wolves takeover and signings and nothing at all about our takeover and signings.

Ha what takeover and signings  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on August 04, 2016, 09:09:09 PM
Yes, you must have. It was in the E&S and Pulis said he hadn't discussed a new contract because things were happening at the club and he was uncertain of his future.
But it was in the E&S, not a very reliable paper, they only talk about Wolves takeover and signings and nothing at all about our takeover and signings.

uncertain of his future because no contract had been discussed does not equate to he doesnt know if he wants to be here or not

And yes its the E&S, not reliable, not the media outlet i would also logon to online either so wouldnt see any story they print and its not readily available in Cornwall.

E&S only ever talks about Wolves, always has from what I remember. They probably don't mention our takeover because they know as much about it as us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 04, 2016, 09:43:04 PM
uncertain of his future because no contract had been discussed does not equate to he doesnt know if he wants to be here or not

And yes its the E&S, not reliable, not the media outlet i would also logon to online either so wouldnt see any story they print and its not readily available in Cornwall.

E&S only ever talks about Wolves, always has from what I remember. They probably don't mention our takeover because they know as much about it as us

Actually the local news media have reversed, Matt Wilson of the E & S has a pretty balanced view, the Evening Mail are so sensationalist now, it's just not worth reading their opinions.

All talk about acquisition has come from the Media. Apart from TP's comments about, "there's a lot going on at the club" which has been interpreted by the media as acquisition related, the club have said nothing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 04, 2016, 10:17:34 PM
Well I meant that I read that TP hasn't signed contract and when asked about it, he didn't say other than club are having talks about other things. So I took this that TP doesn't know if he's extending his contract or seeing it out or leaving.
Maybe I misinterpreted the info on here and other sites.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 04, 2016, 10:19:04 PM
Yes, you must have. It was in the E&S and Pulis said he hadn't discussed a new contract because things were happening at the club and he was uncertain of his future.
But it was in the E&S, not a very reliable paper, they only talk about Wolves takeover and signings and nothing at all about our takeover and signings.

That's what I was referring to, thank you
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: superbobgod on August 04, 2016, 10:44:02 PM
So we got more money than this time last year, a smaller squad, take over rumours still lingering... And 4 weeks left of transfer window.... And a lot more unhappy fans. Plus a manager who don't know if he staying or going, a chairman who wants to leave, and our most expensive player left in limbo and runs risk of having him leave for free next season.
Something needs to be done very soon, to help lift the place/fans

Spot on post!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 04, 2016, 11:06:24 PM
So we got more money than this time last year, a smaller squad, take over rumours still lingering... And 4 weeks left of transfer window.... And a lot more unhappy fans. Plus a manager who don't know if he staying or going, a chairman who wants to leave, and our most expensive player left in limbo and runs risk of having him leave for free next season.
Something needs to be done very soon, to help lift the place/fans

Fans unhappy with the takeover blackout have nobody to blame but themselves. Most other people can use common sense to see why there'd be no information being bandied around willy nilly.

Probably the same folk who think Peace will take money out of the club too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on August 04, 2016, 11:18:44 PM
uncertain of his future because no contract had been discussed does not equate to he doesnt know if he wants to be here or not

And yes its the E&S, not reliable, not the media outlet i would also logon to online either so wouldnt see any story they print and its not readily available in Cornwall.

E&S only ever talks about Wolves, always has from what I remember. They probably don't mention our takeover because they know as much about it as us

The Express&Dingle is the Wolverhampton equivalent of Russia Today. Jokers
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on August 04, 2016, 11:20:51 PM
23 are you a shareholder or a friend of JP because you jump on everyone who makes there feelings known on the sh1te we are now in.
To say JP will not take the money out of the club and fans have themselves to blame sounds very much taking opinions personal take a pill.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 05, 2016, 05:47:45 AM
Well we have reached the weekend we were told something might be announced. Monday is the 8th.
I await with baited breath.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: deebo on August 05, 2016, 07:43:31 AM
Just seen this on Adrian Goldbergs twitter feed:

"Expecting some big news in the next hour re #wba - stay tuned to my show @bbcwm"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 05, 2016, 07:49:55 AM
Wake up everbody this, this is what you've been waiting for
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 05, 2016, 07:51:38 AM
Could this be it! ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on August 05, 2016, 07:52:00 AM
Let's hope it's some good news that us west brom fans all need at the moment! Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on August 05, 2016, 07:54:42 AM
Finally....hopefully Pulis gone and new owners announced...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on August 05, 2016, 08:02:55 AM
Yeah, just said again on the show, 'Major News' to come.........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on August 05, 2016, 08:05:28 AM
Probably announcement that the club has decided to sell Carlsberg now due to the backlash of the no drinking thread on here  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 08:06:42 AM
I must admit a few more bodies on here at this time, its probably to welcome Sakho for 5 million
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 08:08:23 AM
its on facebook Guochuan lai completes deal
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on August 05, 2016, 08:08:34 AM
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/the-club-announce-chairman-jeremy-peace-has-agreed-to-sell-west-bromwich-to-chinese-investment-3226349.aspx
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on August 05, 2016, 08:08:51 AM
Massive massive news coming  :P :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 05, 2016, 08:09:00 AM
in the office on my own, so listening to WM online
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on August 05, 2016, 08:09:55 AM
ITS HAPPENED!
We have been sold to a chinese group!!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 08:10:59 AM
what a releif
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 05, 2016, 08:11:52 AM
Done. Lock the thread, round up those who said nothing was happening and doubters and shoot them round the back of the Smethwick.  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stokelad84 on August 05, 2016, 08:12:42 AM
Congrats  8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 08:13:14 AM
what a cover up :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 08:14:09 AM
how rich are we
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on August 05, 2016, 08:15:12 AM


Guochuan Lai says: “I am excited and privileged to have the chance to become the new owner of this great Club. My immediate priorities will be to maintain the Club’s stable structure, respecting its well-run nature and its heritage. I have no intention of changing the Club’s ethos."
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/the-club-announce-chairman-jeremy-peace-has-agreed-to-sell-west-bromwich-to-chinese-investment-3226349.aspx#Fr2Lpig3sqPygHOH.99
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 05, 2016, 08:16:07 AM
Well we have reached the weekend we were told something might be announced. Monday is the 8th.
I await with baited breath.

keep your breath baited, perhaps you can now move on too and really support our club ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WednesburyAlbion on August 05, 2016, 08:16:15 AM
Sad times for me.

Everything we stood for has now gone for me.

I loved being the underdog, small fish in a big pond, working on a shoe string.

I think after 25 years of being on this earth I've just fell out of love with football.

Billionaires toys who couldn't give a toss about the club/fans/history/traditions.

Roll on the relegation and fans takeover in 5 years :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: garry on August 05, 2016, 08:16:30 AM
Guochuan Lai says: “I would like to impress upon all of you gathered here and to all of our passionate fans that I have no wish to change the Club’s ethos or embark on an unsustainable spending spree. I want to be a good owner and to invest in this Club for the long-term. First and foremost, our goal is to ensure that we remain in the English Premier League and then beyond that, I would like to see the club establish itself in the top half of the division."

That will do for me.
Had he promised we'd be one of the top clubs in the world in five years I would have been horrified.

He went on "I look forward to attending my first home game and to meeting the fans, the heart and soul of West Bromwich Albion."

Can someone save him a table in The Vine.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gavinrussell on August 05, 2016, 08:17:00 AM
Wish it had been earlier..might have invested in some players before the season started..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 08:17:37 AM
Sad times for me.

Everything we stood for has now gone for me.

I loved being the underdog, small fish in a big pond, working on a shoe string.

I think after 25 years of being on this earth I've just fell out of love with football.

Billionaires toys who couldn't give a toss about the club/fans/history/traditions.

Roll on the relegation and fans takeover in 5 years :)


i know what you are saying and understand but we have to be competitive in this evolving world of ours
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 05, 2016, 08:18:08 AM
Sad times for me.

Everything we stood for has now gone for me.

I loved being the underdog, small fish in a big pond, working on a shoe string.

I think after 25 years of being on this earth I've just fell out of love with football.

Billionaires toys who couldn't give a toss about the club/fans/history/traditions.

Roll on the relegation and fans takeover in 5 years :)


It appears some are never satisfied, be positive FGS
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 05, 2016, 08:18:32 AM
Over the moon with this news, I might have a beer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on August 05, 2016, 08:18:36 AM
how rich are we

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-7v4qnHP8

Loadsamoney :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 08:19:12 AM
Over the moon with this news, I might have a beer.


kev, a smacker awaits :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 05, 2016, 08:19:35 AM
Probably announcement that the club has decided to sell Carlsberg now due to the backlash of the no drinking thread on here  ;D

You are probably the closest to be fair!!!

What we come to expect from the Albion 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on August 05, 2016, 08:19:57 AM
Wish it had been earlier..might have invested in some players before the season started..

Looking on the site the sale completed end of June, so I would imagine the new owners had a say in the bids of Schlupp and Sakho and were happy to proceed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 08:20:14 AM
hes massive in worldwide  construction apparently
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 05, 2016, 08:20:36 AM

kev, a smacker awaits :)
Says the man who was all doom and gloom on Sunday.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 08:21:14 AM
Says the man who was all doom and gloom on Sunday.


the ups and the downs eh :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on August 05, 2016, 08:22:00 AM
I don't see loads of cash to be honest. The business market cap is only £1.8bn - that makes it relatively small. And its quarterly profits was only £7m.

Palm was listed on the Shenzhen Stock Exchange in 2010 (ticker number 002431) and had a market capitalisation as at 4 August 2016 of RMB15.6billion (GBP1.8billion). In the six months ended 30 June 2016, Palm had revenue of RMB1.45billion (GBP164million) and recorded a profit before tax of RMB60million (GBP7million).

I'd like to be delighted but my brief scan says we've just inherited the Chinese Jeremy Peace....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 05, 2016, 08:23:38 AM
If things are to be believed, then tomorrow will be the day we find out if we are eating beef steaks or Bear Stew next season.

Still no sign of any statement from the club, so i remain doubtful.

You buying the steaks - i'll have a fillet please
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 05, 2016, 08:24:26 AM
Done. Lock the thread, round up those who said nothing was happening and doubters and shoot them round the back of the Smethwick.  :P

Wasn't what I was hoping for, but there seems to be some substance to the man, & I could see a re-generation project coming out of it. For sure, he does seem to fit the "recognises that the club matters to the fans" category, & there is clearly plans in place to make the transition smooth.

Certainly Guochuan Lai is a tight b*stard wull be a lot harder to type on here & especially from a mobile  :)

Onward & upwards ( wonder what Wayne Rooney will look like in an Abion shirt?)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 05, 2016, 08:24:51 AM
23 are you a shareholder or a friend of JP because you jump on everyone who makes there feelings known on the sh1te we are now in.
To say JP will not take the money out of the club and fans have themselves to blame sounds very much taking opinions personal take a pill.

Yeah I'm a shareholder, what of it?

Nothing personal about it, just think some folk are daft and misinformed. Such is life.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 08:25:29 AM
I don't see loads of cash to be honest. The business market cap is only £1.8bn - that makes it relatively small. And its quarterly profits was only £7m.

Palm was listed on the Shenzhen Stock Exchange in 2010 (ticker number 002431) and had a market capitalisation as at 4 August 2016 of RMB15.6billion (GBP1.8billion). In the six months ended 30 June 2016, Palm had revenue of RMB1.45billion (GBP164million) and recorded a profit before tax of RMB60million (GBP7million).

I'd like to be delighted but my brief scan says we've just inherited the Chinese Jeremy Peace....


nooooooo :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 05, 2016, 08:26:05 AM
How do you pronounce his name?
Gok Wan?  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 05, 2016, 08:26:17 AM
Done. Lock the thread, round up those who said nothing was happening and doubters and shoot them round the back of the Smethwick.  :P

I wouldn't go that far but some serving of humble pie wouldn't go amiss
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on August 05, 2016, 08:29:12 AM
Also worth noting that the new Chairman says Pulis & Hammond have identified 2 or 3 new players - so not only have we not been bought by Dalian Wanda or similar but we can reasonably expect only minimal transfer activity. And by the sounds of John Williams no change of manager......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: jimmyj on August 05, 2016, 08:32:13 AM
Also worth noting that the new Chairman says Pulis & Hammond have identified 2 or 3 new players - so not only have we not been bought by Dalian Wanda or similar but we can reasonably expect only minimal transfer activity. And by the sounds of John Williams no change of manager......

I think Kenny Jackett thought the same thing.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on August 05, 2016, 08:33:46 AM
Nervous and exciting times. Hopefully he runs the club like JP did with 25% looser purse strings and a slightly more open ethos.

Hope we keep Pulis for the season then look to make a more ambitious appointment.

It was very boring under Peace towards the end, its boom or bust now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: fatboy_coach on August 05, 2016, 08:35:58 AM
I don't see loads of cash to be honest. The business market cap is only £1.8bn - that makes it relatively small. And its quarterly profits was only £7m.

Palm was listed on the Shenzhen Stock Exchange in 2010 (ticker number 002431) and had a market capitalisation as at 4 August 2016 of RMB15.6billion (GBP1.8billion). In the six months ended 30 June 2016, Palm had revenue of RMB1.45billion (GBP164million) and recorded a profit before tax of RMB60million (GBP7million).

I'd like to be delighted but my brief scan says we've just inherited the Chinese Jeremy Peace....

But it's not just him, he's the majority shreholder in Shanghi Sports Development and that's who we've sold to.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 05, 2016, 08:36:15 AM
Also worth noting that the new Chairman says Pulis & Hammond have identified 2 or 3 new players - so not only have we not been bought by Dalian Wanda or similar but we can reasonably expect only minimal transfer activity. And by the sounds of John Williams no change of manager......

Maybe 2 or 3 is just a figure of speech, a bit like saying some players? Even if it is only 2 or 3 who's to say we won't bring in some in January?

Changing manager this late in preseason would be a disaster in the making in my opinion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 05, 2016, 08:37:12 AM
I don't see loads of cash to be honest. The business market cap is only £1.8bn - that makes it relatively small. And its quarterly profits was only £7m.

Palm was listed on the Shenzhen Stock Exchange in 2010 (ticker number 002431) and had a market capitalisation as at 4 August 2016 of RMB15.6billion (GBP1.8billion). In the six months ended 30 June 2016, Palm had revenue of RMB1.45billion (GBP164million) and recorded a profit before tax of RMB60million (GBP7million).

I'd like to be delighted but my brief scan says we've just inherited the Chinese Jeremy Peace....

I agree, but if you look at the business he's in, & the opportunities to be involved in world-wide re-generation projects, the scope is enormous. JP had taken us as far as he could, IMO, as this guy grows, so will we.
It's a clever move on both parts, Guochuan Lai will be able to use the Albion as a promotion vehicle, as his business grows, then there will be more money to pump into the Albion, which will increase our profile & his promotion opportunities so on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on August 05, 2016, 08:37:24 AM
The more I read the more it is clear that we have got a wealthy but not mega-rich owner - I would estimate his wealth as two/three hundred millions. That's a lot as an individual (obviously) but not for the owner of a Premier League football club. I think we can reasonably expect business as usual. This is not going to be a deal which sees a deluge of highly paid football down the Albion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on August 05, 2016, 08:37:49 AM
Thanks for the kind words.

Regardless of what people think of him, sacking Pulis now would be a distater for us, especially with the squad we have.

I cant see any major changes happening to be fair.

All every fan wants to know is, exactly how much is he worth  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on August 05, 2016, 08:38:24 AM
Maybe 2 or 3 is just a figure of speech, a bit like saying some players? Even if it is only 2 or 3 who's to say we won't bring in some in January?

Changing manager this late in preseason would be a disaster in the making in my opinion.

Agree on the manager, no point whatsoever rocking the boat now. I just hope this is more a serious investment than a Blues situation.

I like his opening statement though. Not saying anything stupid about blowing millions and ruling the world.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 05, 2016, 08:41:35 AM
Haven't the slightest inclination to find out how much our owner is worth. Stinking rich or not, soon as everyone else knows how much we have expect prices to soar.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 05, 2016, 08:44:19 AM
I don't see loads of cash to be honest. The business market cap is only £1.8bn - that makes it relatively small. And its quarterly profits was only £7m.

Palm was listed on the Shenzhen Stock Exchange in 2010 (ticker number 002431) and had a market capitalisation as at 4 August 2016 of RMB15.6billion (GBP1.8billion). In the six months ended 30 June 2016, Palm had revenue of RMB1.45billion (GBP164million) and recorded a profit before tax of RMB60million (GBP7million).

I'd like to be delighted but my brief scan says we've just inherited the Chinese Jeremy Peace....

Wow that was quick you win the first prize.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Doobuy on August 05, 2016, 08:45:50 AM
Hopefully he isnt referring to recent playing style when talking about the 'ethos' of the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 05, 2016, 08:47:51 AM
A new era, I'm positive about John Williams and yes Peace being an advisor at least for a while.

As a fan, I want success on the pitch , I'm greedy like that! I'll be watching our actions carefully now - I'd hope for steady progress rather than revolution immediately - that to me means at least four quality players (LB , CM, Striker and left winger ) meaning mid table and a good cup run with a stronger squad.

Good luck to John and Guachan - COYB
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MBWBA on August 05, 2016, 08:48:26 AM
Agree on the manager, no point whatsoever rocking the boat now. I just hope this is more a serious investment than a Blues situation.

I like his opening statement though. Not saying anything stupid about blowing millions and ruling the world.

Agree too on the manager, no point in changing. I think pulis with the players he wants will do well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jack Thrust on August 05, 2016, 08:49:03 AM
I am pretty pleased with this, I am much more happy with the statement Lai has produced than all that "we'll be champions league in 3 years" rubbish the Dingles and Seals owners have come out with, they all just smack of not knowing anything about football and not having a clue what they're doing.

We were never going to get sold to someone mega rich, besides these days all the money has to come through sponsorship and the like not just the owner bunging you cash willy nilly. If this guy has his head screwed on and we can make the most of the China links we should do very well.

Personally I never had a problem with the way Peace ran the club really, having said that a tiny bit more ambition shown would do wonders I think.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sappa on August 05, 2016, 08:49:41 AM
What I can find is that Guochuan Lai personal worth almost £2BN
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 08:50:34 AM
We not as rich as wolves or villa though are we? Are their new owners worth more?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 05, 2016, 08:52:17 AM
I am pretty pleased with this, I am much more happy with the statement Lai has produced than all that "we'll be champions league in 3 years" rubbish the Dingles and Seals owners have come out with, they all just smack of not knowing anything about football and not having a clue what they're doing.

We were never going to get sold to someone mega rich, besides these days all the money has to come through sponsorship and the like not just the owner bunging you cash willy nilly. If this guy has his head screwed on and we can make the most of the China links we should do very well.

Personally I never had a problem with the way Peace ran the club really, having said that a tiny bit more ambition shown would do wonders I think.

Pretty much how I feel.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 05, 2016, 08:52:45 AM
We not as rich as wolves or villa though are we? Are their new owners worth more?
why does that matter?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 05, 2016, 08:55:05 AM
Jeremy Peace is staying on for the 16/17 season in an advisory role good for him and the baggies
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jack Thrust on August 05, 2016, 08:56:02 AM
We not as rich as wolves or villa though are we? Are their new owners worth more?

Wolves and Villa have had wealthier owners than us for longer than I can remember, how has that gone for them so far?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 05, 2016, 08:56:11 AM
We not as rich as wolves or villa though are we? Are their new owners worth more?
Who gives a dam about what they are worth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on August 05, 2016, 08:59:07 AM
Well this is great news to wake up to on my birthday!! Best pressie.

I'd like to acknowledge Jeremy Peace and how he turned around the club and stabilised us as a Premier League club. Hopefully we can now move forward and do some decent business between now and deadline day.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on August 05, 2016, 09:01:12 AM
Hopefully the longer term plan is that our brand growth in China will lead to more revenue through sponsorship etc which will enable us to be a bit more competitive on the pitch through having a bit more excess spending money than we would likely have continued with, with Peace. A slow but steady growth is hopefully the plan. An evolution, not revolution, approach. I think most Albion fans would be happy with this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 09:02:00 AM
Bit disappointed... But it's still a big improvement I suppose.
Worrying that some saying he's a tight man and saying he's the Chinese version of JP :(
But suppose he's got his head screwed on more than the new owners of wolves and villa. And suppose slow, gradual changes are better than drastic, big changes.

But if he was behind recent bids, it hasn't gone too well so far
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 05, 2016, 09:02:23 AM
We not as rich as wolves or villa though are we? Are their new owners worth more?

The owners of QPR are/were richer than many other clubs when they took control, but that didn't work out too well did it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 09:05:02 AM
Will there be a renaming of the ground or a stand?

True what you guys say. I can imagine the villa and wolves fans gloating that they bigger/richer teams than us though.... If only money wise
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on August 05, 2016, 09:06:08 AM
Good outcome, I think. No nonsense about being "World Champions" in the next 5 minutes, just a respectful reference to the ethos of the club and a wish for steady growth, with realistic goals.
Get a few decent players in and play a bit of decent football, with or without Pulis, and this will do for me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 09:06:44 AM
In terms of wealth in the Premier league have we climbed the league table
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 09:07:40 AM
I was also asking as I'm not sure what villa or wolves new owners are worth.
I'm guessing villa new owners worth about the same?

When wanda was rumoured to be buying us, there was lots bragging about how much more wealthier we will be than villa and wolves.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on August 05, 2016, 09:08:21 AM
http://www.signal107.co.uk/news/local-sport/west-brom-the-latest-club-sold-to-chinese-investors/

Good read
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 05, 2016, 09:09:25 AM
Hopefully the longer term plan is that our brand growth in China will lead to more revenue through sponsorship etc which will enable us to be a bit more competitive on the pitch through having a bit more excess spending money than we would likely have continued with, with Peace. A slow but steady growth is hopefully the plan. An evolution, not revolution, approach. I think most Albion fans would be happy with this.

Spot on mukka, from acorns grow mighty oaks.

Welcome  Guochuan Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 05, 2016, 09:09:53 AM
Bit disappointed... But it's still a big improvement I suppose.
Worrying that some saying he's a tight man and saying he's the Chinese version of JP :(
But suppose he's got his head screwed on more than the new owners of wolves n villa. And suppose slow, gradual changes are better than drastic, big changes.

But if he was behind recent bids, it hasn't gone too well so far

just remember that they know as much about him as the rest of us....very very little.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WednesburyAlbion on August 05, 2016, 09:15:02 AM

It appears some are never satisfied, be positive FGS

To be fair, I was always satisfied last season. But as with anyone who is satisfied didn't voice my opinion like the ones who wasn't.

It's something which I am totally against, and I enjoyed the ride with Albion.

Every fan is different, and I'm sure you won't see any real change to the we operate, so if you're expecting much change, then I imagine it will only come in the ground being renamed, or something similar.

Everyone automatically thinks money, but it won't be the case.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 05, 2016, 09:19:37 AM
With the new season nearly upon us, I would like to impress upon all of you gathered here and to all of our passionate fans that I have no wish to change the Club’s ethos or embark on an unsustainable spending spree

Have we been taken over by Jeremy?  ;D

Positive news to wake up to this morning. Ultimately, much like the Berahino saga, Jeremy wanted out of the club and as such, as great as he has been for this club, regardless of how prudent some feel he has been, you need a quick resolution in those circumstances and I am pleased to see we are taking steps in the right direction. Time will tell how it pans out, but it is certainly positive news at this stage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 09:19:54 AM
In terms of wealth in the Premier league have we climbed the league table

I was just curious about this too. I'm guessing we somewhere in the middle?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Morany on August 05, 2016, 09:20:14 AM
It's good news as far as I'm concerned and the safety net comes with having Williams as chairman . Hopefully we get a smooth transition.

It won't be buying players left right and centre, but steady growth
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on August 05, 2016, 09:21:17 AM
This is the news I've been waiting for

None off this we will win the league and be a champions league team rubbish like our rivals, just that we will build the club, expand the fanbase etc...you imagine how much revenue can be generated in China for this club through sports development, shirt sales.

Exciting times

Welcome to the club Guochuan Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 05, 2016, 09:22:42 AM
Since when does owner worth equate to guaranteed success? Who care's if Villa's owners are richer, or Wolves for that matter. Villa had a billionaire for the last 5/6 years, they got relegated. QPR had one, and they're no better off. Seriously, football knowledge and savvy business sense gets you further than numbers in your bank balance.

Let the Seals gloat, their owner is clearly mental, more interested in Tweeting garbage and saying they'll win the Champions League.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 05, 2016, 09:24:53 AM
I am liking the John Williams appointment, that is a level of assurance for me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on August 05, 2016, 09:25:47 AM
Excellent news to wake up to. JP deserves massive credit for what he has done here but things have been stale for the last few years throughout the club. Time to move onwards and upwards. Hopefully the new owners can help the club progress. Hopefully see some new signings soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on August 05, 2016, 09:27:11 AM
I like this, done with much more class than those of our dirty neighbors.

This is what we wanted, someone who will continue to operate the club like jezza peace, but with a bit more money to spend to keep us moving forward. (Hopefully!)

Thank you Jeremy, you have been chairman for the majority of my Albion supporting life and we have had some fantastic times under your leadership.

Heres to the future, cheers!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 09:28:36 AM
we have to have a jeremy day surely
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stokelad84 on August 05, 2016, 09:29:08 AM
I am liking the John Williams appointment, that is a level of assurance for me.

Yeah, he knows the Premier League.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on August 05, 2016, 09:31:27 AM
I hope Guochuan doesn't have to watch us grind out a 0-0 bore-draw during our first home game (Everton), with no no no no shots on target!!!

Seriously though, wouldn't it be sensational if we played them off the pitch and stuffed them 3-0. It'd be a return to the 'real' Hawthorns atmosphere that's been missing for a couple of seasons now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on August 05, 2016, 09:32:46 AM
He seems like a fairly sensible guy which is the main thing. As others have said, it's not so much about the money these days, most of the Premier League is run by billionaires, it's about how you handle the money, which is where Peace was decent considering how poor he was in comparison.

Hopefully this guy is similar to Peace but with a bit more money to spend.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on August 05, 2016, 09:35:06 AM
In his message to fans Jeremy Peace says 'a fresh energy is required' to take the club forward.

The news comes as the outgoing chairman sold his 88 per cent stake in the club to Guochuan Lai, a 42-year-old entrepreneur and controlling shareholder in Yunyi Guokai Sports Development Limited.
Read his full message here:
Fourteen years ago I became the chairman of West Bromwich Albion and my challenge was to ensure that when I left, the Club would be the better for my stewardship.
That moment will soon arrive and I think I am entitled to believe that target has been achieved.
A new era for Albion beckons. The Club can look to the future with excitement about the opportunities ahead.
I think this acquisition of West Bromwich Holdings by Guochuan Lai, and the access he brings to the booming football interest in China, provides a great opportunity for the Club.
Albion have to grow and the potential to do so under the new owners is very real.
I’ve been over to China to meet with Guochuan and visit the offices of Palm and their management team. I believe what they presented takes the right long-term view for the Club, a belief that has grown throughout this process.
I wish Guochuan every success. He has a vision for the future and the energy to see it through. He’s 42; I was of a similar age when I became Chairman at The Hawthorns and recognise the enthusiasm and drive that will be needed to take the Club forward.
English football can be a minefield for newcomers which is why I am so pleased to bring in John Williams as my replacement Chairman with immediate effect. John was my preferred recommendation from the outset and I believe we have found an ideal man to help carry the Club forward.
From his acclaimed work at Blackburn Rovers, firstly as Chief Executive and then Chairman, he is used to running a club of comparable size, a club that was very successful in the Premier League prior to his departure. I know from our discussions he is eager and excited about the challenge.
I shall not be stepping away entirely. Although I am relinquishing my position on the board, it has been agreed that I shall remain as an advisor at least for this season ahead. We will review this arrangement at the end of the campaign.
I could not leave, however, without some reflections and notes of appreciation.
In one sense, the last 14 years have flashed by in the blink of the eye. But in another, the turbulence around Albion back then reminds me of the epic nature of the journey.
I do not mind admitting those early years found me learning “on the hoof” through the design of others. Although I had a background in corporate finance and running public companies, the unregulated player-trading culture, particularly, surprised and alarmed me.
I quickly came to realise that I must go my own way. As you will recall, these were the ‘yo yo’ seasons when we struggled to sustain a Premier League position. There is no hiding place from the critics in football and I soon reasoned that, if I was going to be pilloried for whatever went wrong it was not going to be for somebody else’s decisions.
Slowly what I hear referred to as “the Albion way” evolved. Try to compete in the top-flight but keep the Club solvent, invest in its infrastructure and its future development, always building but never at the risk of the Club’s financial well-being.
I look around now at the training ground, the Academy’s EPPP status, an ever-improving squad of internationals and the growth of the Albion Foundation with all its wonderful community work and feel it has been a successful strategy.
It is sometimes difficult to strike the balance between planning for the future while acknowledging the past. This “handover” of power is all about the years to come but I am particularly pleased that I leave with the Astle gates - and Jeff’s memory further preserved by the emotional tribute paid to him on Astle Day - and the Tony Brown statue adorning the stadium.
I am also delighted that having accumulated a huge collection of Club artefacts and memorabilia, we have begun the long process of archiving for the digital age the story of Albion for the generations to come.
But to stand still is to go backwards in this Premier League and it is right for me to recognise that, in order we add more and meaningful chapters, a fresh energy is required. I feel I have played my part and now is the time for new ideas, a new vision, to propel the Club forward.
Over the piece, I can have no grumbles about the fans. When you are sat at the head of a club, especially in today’s Premier League, you cannot expect to escape flak but the “Peace Out” banners have thankfully been few and far between!
I think also being a local lad, whose father and grandfather both supported the Club, has helped me but I also believe from the letters I still receive that the supporters understand what we have tried to do and the difficulties we have faced in dragging the Club back from the lost years of the 1980s and 90s. I think they 'get it.'
They have shared the thrills and spills in the last 14 years. Finishing eighth is so far the high water-mark of this Premier League era for us. Although it will not be easy, I obviously hope there is even better to come.
But I shared the excitement, too, of those visits to Wembley where we experienced both pride and pain, promotions and winning the Championship and our arrival on the big stage with, for example, back-to-back victories at Old Trafford and Anfield. There have been some memorably good days to off-set the disappointments.
Along the way, there have been invaluable contributions from too many to mention but I would reserve a special thanks for our Chief Executive Mark Jenkins, who has been unflinching amid some of the tough decisions that have had to be taken and unswerving in his support.
I wish we could have won a major Cup because I believe the players we have assembled here have been good enough to do so. Perhaps that is something Guochuan and John can experience as they take the Club on from here.
I wish them, and all who have Albion in their hearts, every success as they endeavour to do so.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on August 05, 2016, 09:36:31 AM
Since when does owner worth equate to guaranteed success? Who care's if Villa's owners are richer, or Wolves for that matter. Villa had a billionaire for the last 5/6 years, they got relegated. QPR had one, and they're no better off. Seriously, football knowledge and savvy business sense gets you further than numbers in your bank balance.

Let the Seals gloat, their owner is clearly mental, more interested in Tweeting garbage and saying they'll win the Champions League.
Hear, Hear
However much they are worth, we are the ONLY, Chinese owned, PREMIERSHIP club  ;)
Nobody watches the Championship over here, let alone China  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnthebaggie on August 05, 2016, 09:37:34 AM
At least we can go into the new season with a bit more hope. Although Peace has done a fantastic job, its become apparent that he has lost interest and taken us as far as he can.

It remains to be seen as to whether the takeover works, but for now we can at least enjoy having a something to look forward to.

interesting times ahead.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: macc_baggie on August 05, 2016, 09:38:13 AM
Firstly, thanks to Jeremy for everything he's done for our club over the last 14 years. I understand people feel we've stagnated a bit, but as a result of his tenure, we've stagnated as an established premier league club. For that I will always hold him in the highest regard.

To the future, i'm pleased that the new man seems to have a level of balance and sense, but then Peace was never going to sell to a reckless spendthrift. I don't expect anything other than the usual complaining about transfer business (but who will the detractors blame now ? ;) )as we maintain our cautious policy.

The appointment of the ex Blackburn chairman and Peace staying on in an advisory role is comforting indeed. Let's survive again this season please and then begin to aim a little higher. Onwards and upwards!

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 09:40:26 AM
Since when does owner worth equate to guaranteed success? Who care's if Villa's owners are richer, or Wolves for that matter. Villa had a billionaire for the last 5/6 years, they got relegated. QPR had one, and they're no better off. Seriously, football knowledge and savvy business sense gets you further than numbers in your bank balance.

Let the Seals gloat, their owner is clearly mental, more interested in Tweeting garbage and saying they'll win the Champions League.


Amen
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Big Al on August 05, 2016, 09:43:39 AM
It seems to me that JP as the Albion fan that he is has passed the club into a safe pair of hands. Maybe not the spectacular owners some were looking for but a steady and sensible first statement bodes well. Maybe we are not going to challenge Man City for signings but not going the way of Portsmouth either.
The appointment of John Williams will be crucial in maintaining the clubs position and I expect TP to see out the season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: east-stand-nick on August 05, 2016, 09:44:27 AM
The bloke seems wealthy but has a level-headed approach, cause for cautious optimism!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 05, 2016, 09:48:35 AM
Would like to give a whole hearted welcome to Guochuan lai and all the Yunyi Guokai Group and wish them a long and successful time at our GREAT CLUB WELCOME.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: A5HB on August 05, 2016, 09:50:31 AM
I'm optimistic about this. Whilst any major business decision like this has huge risk, particularly with owners who aren't well known to us, it is something we have needed for a while to move forward.

I like Peace and think he should be proud of the job he has done. It hasn't always been well received but he has produced a stable, competitive Premier League club that is now ready to move forward. It's clear that over the last few years the level of owner involvement and club spending has reached a level he isn't comfortable with and cannot support himself. He knows that to progress change is needed and we can only hope that he stays true to words and that the new owners have the best interests of the club at heart.

He may not be the super rich multi billionaire some were hoping for but I am impressed with what Guochuan Lai had said so far. It seems like he has a good appreciation of where we are as a club and is keen to maintain our stability and traditions. I am actually more comfortable knowing that hopefully we aren't some huge corporations multi million pound play thing but that we are hopefully being taken forward by a sensible businessman.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 05, 2016, 09:50:46 AM
The King is dead long live The Kings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 05, 2016, 09:52:06 AM
All seems a bit murky to me. Very little online about the guy and a shell company created to own the club doesn't fill me with confidence.

Hard to be anything other than ambivalent at the moment. Proof will be in the pudding, but those comments about the worth of the worth of the owners not mattering baffle me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 05, 2016, 09:52:42 AM
We not as rich as wolves or villa though are we? Are their new owners worth more?

No wonder they call us obsessed. Let's just enjoy this historic moment and not give a rat's a** what those creatures in Aston think or do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on August 05, 2016, 09:53:42 AM
Hats off to Baggie38 spot on .for all who doubted  (me included ) bang on. Thanks Pal
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on August 05, 2016, 09:54:22 AM
Just had a quick look at his background.
He seems to have been a major investor in a company called 'Palm' which is mostly based in China. This company is the biggest landscaping company in China and is worth $1.8 billion.
He has bought us with a bigger group who are based on investing into sports - as I believe at the moment the Chinese government is pushing for the growth of football in China.

So far, so good. No dodgy stories like the controversial 'Dr X' and hopefully no feeder players like the dogheads have been doing, just good old fashioned ownership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 09:57:16 AM
Is John Williams good?
Thought we was looking at the FA guy becoming chairman
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kendover on August 05, 2016, 09:57:53 AM
Yeah bang on 38, my new go to guy
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 05, 2016, 09:58:53 AM
Hats off to Baggie38 spot on .for all who doubted  (me included ) bang on. Thanks Pal

I thank him & the other ITK poster for their posts which at times they must think f--k it is it worth it.CHEERS ALL
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 05, 2016, 09:59:44 AM
By the looks of it, Lai could be a good fit for us. In theory, he needs a strong WBA brand , in the premier league to help sell and grow in China. Imagine tapping into just one area of China - this could mean we have an additional 100,000 fans. These fans basically equal money which equals money back into the club/ team (hopefully ).

John Williams has already been a successful premier league chairman and also seen what bad owners (venkys) can do. He could be a very good appointment throughout the next couple of years.

I don't see much change coming initially? As Psalm 23 says, a good owner is not just about cash - there's loads of examples of rich owners getting bored or just not understanding how football works sufficiently.

If anything , I'd say Pulis is even safer in his job than last week. I just hope we push on with some quality players as this will create some goodwill with fans and provide a better platform for a more enjoyable footballing season!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on August 05, 2016, 10:01:02 AM
Is John Williams good?
Thought we was looking at the FA guy becoming chairman
TBH my first thought was who??  Then I saw Blackburn and my heart sank due to the Venky's business, but this is more reassuring:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/8835527.Mrs_Desai__Why_John_Williams_left_Blackburn_Rovers/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on August 05, 2016, 10:02:33 AM
Is John Williams good?
Thought we was looking at the FA guy becoming chairman

Admittedly I didn't know much about him until I started reading about him earlier. He was the Blackburn chairman after Jack Walker and until the Venky's took over, so he ran Blackburn for 10 consecutive years in the Premier League. During this time they had Mark Hughes, Allardyce, Souness etc and did fairly well.

If you want re-assurance, read the comments section from this Lancashire paper when he left, it seems the fans adored him.
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/8833359.John_Williams_leaves_Blackburn_Rovers/ (http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/8833359.John_Williams_leaves_Blackburn_Rovers/)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 05, 2016, 10:02:47 AM
One thing I need to address are these "Nick Hammond and Tony Pulis have said we need 2/3 new players" from our new chairman are merely to manage fan expectations I fully expect us to sign more than 3 players this summer and thanks to those of you who have wished me well and thanked me for my reassurances about this takeover this summer it's been a pleasure to share the information.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 05, 2016, 10:03:35 AM
Hats off to Baggie38 spot on .for all who doubted  (me included ) bang on. Thanks Pal

My pleasure mate! Thanks for the kind words.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 05, 2016, 10:06:15 AM
we have to have a jeremy day surely
That's your end of season theme done and dusted then  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 05, 2016, 10:06:25 AM
Just had a quick look at his background.
He seems to have been a major investor in a company called 'Palm' which is mostly based in China. This company is the biggest landscaping company in China and is worth $1.8 billion.
He has bought us with a bigger group who are based on investing into sports - as I believe at the moment the Chinese government is pushing for the growth of football in China.

So far, so good. No dodgy stories like the controversial 'Dr X' and hopefully no feeder players like the dogheads have been doing, just good old fashioned ownership.

Their is a VAST pool of untouched talent that's just begging to be untapped we would be fools not to use this source.
I watched a TV program about the boom in football academies & the growing of football in their schools. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 05, 2016, 10:06:44 AM
One thing I need to address are these "Nick Hammond and Tony Pulis have said we need 2/3 new players" from our new chairman are merely to manage fan expectations I fully expect us to sign more than 3 players this summer and thanks to those of you who have wished me well and thanked me for my reassurances about this takeover this summer it's been a pleasure to share the information.
Well done me mon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Doobuy on August 05, 2016, 10:07:03 AM
"a shell company created to own the club doesn't fill me with confidence."

The above would be entirely usual.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 05, 2016, 10:10:03 AM
Admittedly I didn't know much about him until I started reading about him earlier. He was the Blackburn chairman after Jack Walker and until the Venky's took over, so he ran Blackburn for 10 consecutive years in the Premier League. During this time they had Mark Hughes, Allardyce, Souness etc and did fairly well.

If you want re-assurance, read the comments section from this Lancashire paper when he left, it seems the fans adored him.
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/8833359.John_Williams_leaves_Blackburn_Rovers/ (http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/8833359.John_Williams_leaves_Blackburn_Rovers/)

http://www.brfcc.com/mb/index.php/topic/31434-john-williams-is-a-chairman-again/

More reassurance on John Williams.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 05, 2016, 10:11:55 AM
Admittedly I didn't know much about him until I started reading about him earlier. He was the Blackburn chairman after Jack Walker and until the Venky's took over, so he ran Blackburn for 10 consecutive years in the Premier League. During this time they had Mark Hughes, Allardyce, Souness etc and did fairly well.

If you want re-assurance, read the comments section from this Lancashire paper when he left, it seems the fans adored him.
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/8833359.John_Williams_leaves_Blackburn_Rovers/ (http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/8833359.John_Williams_leaves_Blackburn_Rovers/)

John Williams really looks to be a good appointment for us , positive and relevant experience
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on August 05, 2016, 10:16:53 AM
Exciting times are now ahead of us.  I pay tribute for everything Jereny Peace has done for our club, and i do not at all begrudge him the return he has now achieved on his work.  I would still like to hear us singing his name around the ground.  I do think he has earned a chant.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 05, 2016, 10:17:13 AM
We not as rich as wolves or villa though are we? Are their new owners worth more?

But we are not in the Championship ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on August 05, 2016, 10:18:37 AM
Queue the meltdown from people this time next week when we haven't signed 25 million pound players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on August 05, 2016, 10:20:31 AM
Doesn't appear to be too much about him online. I suppose no news is good news, least he's not known for being crazy etc
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 10:22:13 AM
That's your end of season theme done and dusted then  :D


you would think so wouldnt you.i feel a tribute to the man should be at home though :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Big Al on August 05, 2016, 10:23:58 AM
Just read the comments linked below from Blackburn fans and John Williams was really well liked. Looks like an excellent appointment for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 05, 2016, 10:25:11 AM
So is it a consortium that has bought us and he's the figure head or is he the sole owner?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on August 05, 2016, 10:26:20 AM
Their is a VAST pool of untouched talent that's just begging to be untapped we would be fools not to use this source.
I watched a TV program about the boom in football academies & the growing of football in their schools.
I was more on about the Wolves being pimped out by Mendes rather than investing in them as a club, as opposed to a cashcow for agents fees.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Manc Baggie on August 05, 2016, 10:38:49 AM
I thank him & the other ITK poster for their posts which at times they must think f--k it is it worth it.CHEERS ALL

Agreed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on August 05, 2016, 10:46:19 AM

you would think so wouldnt you.i feel a tribute to the man should be at home though :)

Yeah we have to do a JP end of season theme

Bald wigs and sewn up wallets  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 10:55:00 AM
are we now part of the billionaire club :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 05, 2016, 11:01:06 AM
Our new owner Guochuan Lai resides in China so we won't be seeing that much of him, but apparently we will see his brother as he lives in the Black Country, his name is Yom in Lai........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on August 05, 2016, 11:03:03 AM
I knew this was happening, the change of residence to Jersey and the silence from the club was the giveaway. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks with regards to signings and whether the takeover ploayed apart in the Sakho deal collapsing. I think investment has come at the right time and the new owner is saying the right things. Overall, I would have preferred Dalian Wanda but I have faith that Peace has put us in safe hands. Exciting times. I wonder how all the Peace bashers will take to our new owners, that will also be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 05, 2016, 11:06:03 AM
I knew this was happening, the change of residence to Jersey and the silence from the club was the giveaway. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few weeks with regards to signings and whether the takeover ploayed apart in the Sakho deal collapsing. I think investment has come at the right time and the new owner is saying the right things. Overall, I would have preferred Dalian Wanda but I have faith that Peace has put us in safe hands. Exciting times. I wonder how all the Peace bashers will take to our new owners, that will also be interesting to see.

 I think a big group like Wanda or Fosun would not have suited us Vanderlei. We have someone with a personal stake in the club but with the financial backing of a consortium who seems to recognise our soul as a club. That's important if true! We'love see by their actions of course
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on August 05, 2016, 11:07:46 AM
So this chap is worth £1.8bn?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 05, 2016, 11:17:08 AM
Brummie Mail wrongly saying that he has claimed to be a fan since 1978 when he was a child, when he actually said he was aware of us as a child due to the 1978 tour and has followed us for a number of years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on August 05, 2016, 11:22:18 AM
Our new owner Guochuan Lai resides in China so we won't be seeing that much of him, but apparently we will see his brother as he lives in the Black Country, his name is Yom in Lai........
Very good  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 05, 2016, 11:24:48 AM
It looks like JP has managed to sell us to the one Chinese businessman who has no money to invest in the club, hence the statement emphasising continuity. It appears more than disappointing.

The new owner used to be a director in Palm, which is currently is valued at 1.8bn but last year had a turnover of £500m and a profit of just £7m - probably less than our football club made. He stepped down from Palm in 2014 but still has a seat on some subsidiary boards. He level of ownership of Palm to begin with has not been confirmed and a company making £7m a year doesn't have much clout.

If you look at the official statement on the wba site you will see that the new owner owns 59% and a separate investment group has taken the remainder so he didn't have enough cash to fund the purchase himself. Rumoured to be £200m on here by baggie38. The official statement confirms he has enough cash reserves to fund that, I.e more than £118m so I presume he has about £150m in the bank or did have before £118m was paid to Peace. The remaining £82m is from an investment group who we know nothing about. No evidence they have any clout or sizeable investments either. Presumably they will want a return / profit from the club in the long run.

The outcome appears
- new owner to remain based in China
- John Williams to run club
- No additional money to be invested in squad or facilities

In short our income hasn't changed, we are stuck with the PL tv money although in the long run we might get more commercial money from China. The new owner has talked about putting our logo on football community facilities in Eco towns that Palm is building in China...am I supposed to be excited and content with this?

All in the context of wolves being bought out by multi-billionaires. They have Walmart  and we have the equivalent of the ice cream seller. Thanks Jeremy.

So if your happy with the status quo and punching above our weight as a small club then you should be happy with the takeover, more of the same is promised. If you wanted a mega rich owner and grand ambition then that dream has died.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on August 05, 2016, 11:25:18 AM
I think a big group like Wanda or Fosun would not have suited us Vanderlei. We have someone with a personal stake in the club but with the financial backing of a consortium who seems to recognise our soul as a club. That's important if true! We'love see by their actions of course

You could be right, the big thing for me with Wanda is the way they are running Atletico Madrid. Wouldn't of minded a few of their hand me downs either! As you say the most important thing is that the new owners seem to recognize the right way to do things and have acknowledged the heritage and traditions of our club. I feel like a kid at Xmas this morning, I just hope it doesn't turn out that all we are receiving is a lump of coal in the stocking. We do now need to get some new players in quickly, so let's see whether we act with more urgency under the new stewardship.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 05, 2016, 11:25:53 AM
Brummie Mail wrongly saying that he has claimed to be a fan since 1978 when he was a child, when he actually said he was aware of us as a child due to the 1978 tour and has followed us for a number of years.

 I thought he said he was introduced to Albion by a contact involved  1978 China tour?

You'd expect a journo to read anyway wouldn't you?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 05, 2016, 11:28:09 AM
Yep it's big big news for us alright. We've been stable to point of becoming s bit stale so this should shake things up a bit?

The transfer window is huge now, we'll see the real intentions in action not words!



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mank baggie on August 05, 2016, 11:29:09 AM
It looks like JP has managed to sell us to the one Chinese businessman who has no money to invest in the club, hence the statement emphasising continuity. It appears more than disappointing.

The new owner used to be a director in Palm, which is currently is valued at 1.8bn but last year had a turnover of £500m and a profit of just £7m - probably less than our football club made. He stepped down from Palm in 2014 but still has a seat on some subsidiary boards. He level of ownership of Palm to begin with has not been confirmed and a company making £7m a year doesn't have much clout.

If you look at the official statement on the wba site you will see that the new owner owns 59% and a separate investment group has taken the remainder so he didn't have enough cash to fund the purchase himself. Rumoured to be £200m on here by baggie38. The official statement confirms he has enough cash reserves to fund that, I.e more than £118m so I presume he has about £150m in the bank or did have before £118m was paid to Peace. The remaining £82m is from an investment group who we know nothing about. No evidence they have any clout or sizeable investments either. Presumably they will want a return / profit from the club in the long run.

The outcome appears
- new owner to remain based in China
- John Williams to run club
- No additional money to be invested in squad or facilities

In short our income hasn't changed, we are stuck with the PL tv money although in the long run we might get more commercial money from China. The new owner has talked about putting our logo on football community facilities in Eco towns that Palm is building in China...am I supposed to be excited and content with this?

All in the context of wolves being bought out by multi-billionaires. They have Walmart  and we have the equivalent of the ice cream seller. Thanks Jeremy.

So if your happy with the status quo and punching above our weight as a small club then you should be happy with the takeover, more of the same is promised. If you wanted a mega rich owner and grand ambition then that dream has died.
youve cheered me up, now wheres my rope
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Canmore Baggie on August 05, 2016, 11:30:44 AM
Think Mr Lai has made all of the right noises in his letter to fans. No rash promises, commitment to maintaining the club's ethos, and referencing past history with the 1978 tour. While I know this message will have been carefully planned (and is no doubt a marketing piece), the first impression is of a very measured and level-headed new owner.

John Williams looks like a very sound appointment as chairman, and all in all it looks like this deal has been conducted with the utmost professionalism over the past 6 weeks.

The next few months will of course show us what these changes mean, but so far so good. A big thanks to JP, who while infuriating at times has left the club in a far better position than when he joined the board, and a big welcome to the new owner and chairman.

And for those of us who remember the China tour in 1978, I'll bet no-one thought at the time we'd ever be owned by the Chinese!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 05, 2016, 11:31:43 AM
I think a big group like Wanda or Fosun would not have suited us Vanderlei. We have someone with a personal stake in the club but with the financial backing of a consortium who seems to recognise our soul as a club. That's important if true! We'love see by their actions of course

Yeah, don't believe the rubbish about acknowledging the tradition\history\soul of the club.  It's just a nice PR statement until I see the evidence of that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kanu on August 05, 2016, 11:33:27 AM
It looks like JP has managed to sell us to the one Chinese businessman who has no money to invest in the club, hence the statement emphasising continuity. It appears more than disappointing.

The new owner used to be a director in Palm, which is currently is valued at 1.8bn but last year had a turnover of £500m and a profit of just £7m - probably less than our football club made. He stepped down from Palm in 2014 but still has a seat on some subsidiary boards. He level of ownership of Palm to begin with has not been confirmed and a company making £7m a year doesn't have much clout.

This is great news, they have substantial wealth that will fund new transfers and take us further. Great news about John Williams too, loads of Blackburn fans congratulating us on him, he is much revered in those parts and fondly remembered for being in charge during some of their best years in the prem.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on August 05, 2016, 11:33:52 AM
So is it a consortium that has bought us and he's the figure head or is he the sole owner?
Sports development group.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Doobuy on August 05, 2016, 11:35:59 AM
i dont think anyone would want a statement that said things like

"mr lai has promised to throw money around left right and centre"

to understand where the club is going under its new senior management, we need to see the first few steps that it takes. these will become apparent in the next couple of months
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 05, 2016, 11:37:12 AM
"They have substantial wealth that will fund new transfers" - what is your evidence for that statement? No committment to put any capital into the club and no evidence of any wealth. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on both counts...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 05, 2016, 11:44:15 AM
My initial reaction is underwhelmed and confused, there seems to be no synergy with Palm group, however the sports group may be an interesting venture.
Based in guangzho is interesting as well, Guangzho is the home of the biggest and most succesful Asian club, I can't find any tie up with them but hopefully there will be one.
One thing for sure its going to be interesting.

I like the low key approach and JP being kept on for the transition,

Fingers crossed.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBrainy on August 05, 2016, 11:48:47 AM
"They have substantial wealth that will fund new transfers" - what is your evidence for that statement? No committment to put any capital into the club and no evidence of any wealth. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on both counts...

Your last posts have tickled me , the guys only just brought the club and your talking aload of crude you found from google about him already.

Give the guy a chance , let's wait and see before making bold statements and silly remarks about JP selling to a nobody. The guy has a decent portfolio and seems to be a shrewd businessman ... Only time will tell , but from what I've read so far I'm quite pleased at present.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kanu on August 05, 2016, 11:53:44 AM
"They have substantial wealth that will fund new transfers" - what is your evidence for that statement? No committment to put any capital into the club and no evidence of any wealth. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on both counts...

Give one, just one, good reason why an owner of a premier league club would say 'I've got loads of money to spend' when just 28 days of the biggest transfer window are left?
Like I said, just one will do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 05, 2016, 11:58:35 AM
It looks like JP has managed to sell us to the one Chinese businessman who has no money to invest in the club, hence the statement emphasising continuity. It appears more than disappointing.

The new owner used to be a director in Palm, which is currently is valued at 1.8bn but last year had a turnover of £500m and a profit of just £7m - probably less than our football club made. He stepped down from Palm in 2014 but still has a seat on some subsidiary boards. He level of ownership of Palm to begin with has not been confirmed and a company making £7m a year doesn't have much clout.

If you look at the official statement on the wba site you will see that the new owner owns 59% and a separate investment group has taken the remainder so he didn't have enough cash to fund the purchase himself. Rumoured to be £200m on here by baggie38. The official statement confirms he has enough cash reserves to fund that, I.e more than £118m so I presume he has about £150m in the bank or did have before £118m was paid to Peace. The remaining £82m is from an investment group who we know nothing about. No evidence they have any clout or sizeable investments either. Presumably they will want a return / profit from the club in the long run.

The outcome appears
- new owner to remain based in China
- John Williams to run club
- No additional money to be invested in squad or facilities

In short our income hasn't changed, we are stuck with the PL tv money although in the long run we might get more commercial money from China. The new owner has talked about putting our logo on football community facilities in Eco towns that Palm is building in China...am I supposed to be excited and content with this?

All in the context of wolves being bought out by multi-billionaires. They have Walmart  and we have the equivalent of the ice cream seller. Thanks Jeremy.

So if your happy with the status quo and punching above our weight as a small club then you should be happy with the takeover, more of the same is promised. If you wanted a mega rich owner and grand ambition then that dream has died.

Could you kindly point me in the direction of the nearest cliff to jump off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: swad35 on August 05, 2016, 12:04:48 PM
Blackburn fan forums talk very highly of John Williams, havent seen one bad comment, shrewd appointment from our new owner even if he did listen to JP, shows his willing to listen. I'm happy I think it will be alright, time will tell but at least I'm exciting again about my club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 05, 2016, 12:10:47 PM
It looks like JP has managed to sell us to the one Chinese businessman who has no money to invest in the club, hence the statement emphasising continuity. It appears more than disappointing.

The new owner used to be a director in Palm, which is currently is valued at 1.8bn but last year had a turnover of £500m and a profit of just £7m - probably less than our football club made. He stepped down from Palm in 2014 but still has a seat on some subsidiary boards. He level of ownership of Palm to begin with has not been confirmed and a company making £7m a year doesn't have much clout.

If you look at the official statement on the wba site you will see that the new owner owns 59% and a separate investment group has taken the remainder so he didn't have enough cash to fund the purchase himself. Rumoured to be £200m on here by baggie38. The official statement confirms he has enough cash reserves to fund that, I.e more than £118m so I presume he has about £150m in the bank or did have before £118m was paid to Peace. The remaining £82m is from an investment group who we know nothing about. No evidence they have any clout or sizeable investments either. Presumably they will want a return / profit from the club in the long run.

The outcome appears
- new owner to remain based in China
- John Williams to run club
- No additional money to be invested in squad or facilities

In short our income hasn't changed, we are stuck with the PL tv money although in the long run we might get more commercial money from China. The new owner has talked about putting our logo on football community facilities in Eco towns that Palm is building in China...am I supposed to be excited and content with this?

All in the context of wolves being bought out by multi-billionaires. They have Walmart  and we have the equivalent of the ice cream seller. Thanks Jeremy.

So if your happy with the status quo and punching above our weight as a small club then you should be happy with the takeover, more of the same is promised. If you wanted a mega rich owner and grand ambition then that dream has died.

A totally naive post.

You have no idea what other wealth he has outside of what was generated by Palm.  You have no idea what wealth the other investors have got. 

I do not believe for one moment that JP would have sold to a buyer which has no access to funds to invest more funding into the group.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Laurie Cunningham on August 05, 2016, 12:12:59 PM
It looks like JP has managed to sell us to the one Chinese businessman who has no money to invest in the club, hence the statement emphasising continuity. It appears more than disappointing.

The new owner used to be a director in Palm, which is currently is valued at 1.8bn but last year had a turnover of £500m and a profit of just £7m - probably less than our football club made. He stepped down from Palm in 2014 but still has a seat on some subsidiary boards. He level of ownership of Palm to begin with has not been confirmed and a company making £7m a year doesn't have much clout.

If you look at the official statement on the wba site you will see that the new owner owns 59% and a separate investment group has taken the remainder so he didn't have enough cash to fund the purchase himself. Rumoured to be £200m on here by baggie38. The official statement confirms he has enough cash reserves to fund that, I.e more than £118m so I presume he has about £150m in the bank or did have before £118m was paid to Peace. The remaining £82m is from an investment group who we know nothing about. No evidence they have any clout or sizeable investments either. Presumably they will want a return / profit from the club in the long run.

The outcome appears
- new owner to remain based in China
- John Williams to run club
- No additional money to be invested in squad or facilities

In short our income hasn't changed, we are stuck with the PL tv money although in the long run we might get more commercial money from China. The new owner has talked about putting our logo on football community facilities in Eco towns that Palm is building in China...am I supposed to be excited and content with this?

All in the context of wolves being bought out by multi-billionaires. They have Walmart  and we have the equivalent of the ice cream seller. Thanks Jeremy.

So if your happy with the status quo and punching above our weight as a small club then you should be happy with the takeover, more of the same is promised. If you wanted a mega rich owner and grand ambition then that dream has died.

Very well said, my thoughts are the same.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 12:13:11 PM
A totally naive post.

You have no idea what other wealth he has outside of what was generated by Palm.  You have no idea what wealth the other investors have got. 

I do not believe for one moment that JP would have sold to a buyer which has no access to funds to invest more funding into the group.



that we can be assured of. no way would he sell to an ice cream seller as another teams message board described him
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 05, 2016, 12:15:29 PM


The outcome appears
- new owner to remain based in China
- John Williams to run club
- No additional money to be invested in squad or facilities


To answer your perceived outcomes;


1. What is the problem with the new owner living in China?
2. What is the problem with John Williams being appointed?
3. Do you know this as a fact? because I don't.......


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Morany on August 05, 2016, 12:26:35 PM
Free scarf for Palace away and a free drink at Everton at home

What a guy.

Long live Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on August 05, 2016, 12:26:46 PM
To answer your perceived outcomes;


1. What is the problem with the new owner living in China?
2. What is the problem with John Williams being appointed?
3. Do you know this as a fact? because I don't.......

And why spend £200m (or whatever the final figure was) to do nothing?
This group has invested  an awful lot just to buy the club, why on earth would they bother if they didn't have a long term plan? Just because they are not making ridiculous promises "We'll win the World Series in 2 years", does not mean they will not invest. If it wasn't for a dodgy back we would have smashed our transfer record this week, which was apparently sanctioned by the new owners.
This is the most positive news we have had in years. Enjoy it!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on August 05, 2016, 12:28:05 PM
Mr Lai has said that we will be at The Hawthorns for the Everton game and will buy every fan a drink! ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Avonbaggie on August 05, 2016, 12:33:00 PM
Mr Lai has said that we will be at The Hawthorns for the Everton game and will buy every fan a drink! ;D

At least he's acknowledging the quality of our football then.. ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 05, 2016, 12:36:05 PM
In his first video he's mentioned he'd look forward to a top half finish asap. That's not very JP and sets a clear market for transfers etc...,,the fact Pulis has never finished top half might worry him personally?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbatillidie on August 05, 2016, 12:40:07 PM
Prof Simon Chadwick ‏@Prof_Chadwick  2h2 hours ago Bristol, England
New West Brom owner: Guochuan Lai.
Suspect he's frontman for larger/wealthier group of investors
On his own more Tony Xia than Wang Jianlin

Not sure who this guy is but seems to know what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on August 05, 2016, 12:42:07 PM
Not wishing to be negative because I think the club does need new ideas and new management (both at executive and football level) - this new owner is not mega-rich. He is certainly very wealthy but in the pantheon of high-wealth individuals he is not on the list. That may not be a bad thing at all - he is I think committed to growing the club not least because he's probably spent over £100m of his own money and I am sure he not like to see that significantly devalued by relegation.

However the information available from both the club statements and the listing of his old company (Palm) does not indicate that this will be a takeover followed by wild spending resourced externally. Likewise as the company is privately owed it is possible that the purchase could be refinanced and the club saddled with new debt. I think these types of takeovers tend to be opaque. I am of the view that we should not blindly celebrate the takeover until we understand more about what it actually means. I am fairly positive however that we haven't become part of the Billionaire club  just yet. Palm itself would only need to see a small drop in market cap to fall under the 1bn threshold and as its listed he clearly doesn't own all the business.

I think we have got a slightly wealthier version of JP, a good, well respected new Chair and hopefully a controlled and managed next phase in the clubs development. What we haven't got is a sugar daddy like Manchester City or Chelsea.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 12:42:51 PM
http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/off-the-pitch/west-brom-albion/news/xia-takes-swipe-at-west-brom-wolves-owners_278221.html


Wtf!? I'm pretty sure that more thought went into finding our new owners, than did into theirs
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 05, 2016, 12:43:23 PM
It looks like JP has managed to sell us to the one Chinese businessman who has no money to invest in the club, hence the statement emphasising continuity. It appears more than disappointing.

The new owner used to be a director in Palm, which is currently is valued at 1.8bn but last year had a turnover of £500m and a profit of just £7m - probably less than our football club made. He stepped down from Palm in 2014 but still has a seat on some subsidiary boards. He level of ownership of Palm to begin with has not been confirmed and a company making £7m a year doesn't have much clout.

If you look at the official statement on the wba site you will see that the new owner owns 59% and a separate investment group has taken the remainder so he didn't have enough cash to fund the purchase himself. Rumoured to be £200m on here by baggie38. The official statement confirms he has enough cash reserves to fund that, I.e more than £118m so I presume he has about £150m in the bank or did have before £118m was paid to Peace. The remaining £82m is from an investment group who we know nothing about. No evidence they have any clout or sizeable investments either. Presumably they will want a return / profit from the club in the long run.

The outcome appears
- new owner to remain based in China
- John Williams to run club
- No additional money to be invested in squad or facilities

In short our income hasn't changed, we are stuck with the PL tv money although in the long run we might get more commercial money from China. The new owner has talked about putting our logo on football community facilities in Eco towns that Palm is building in China...am I supposed to be excited and content with this?

All in the context of wolves being bought out by multi-billionaires. They have Walmart  and we have the equivalent of the ice cream seller. Thanks Jeremy.

So if your happy with the status quo and punching above our weight as a small club then you should be happy with the takeover, more of the same is promised. If you wanted a mega rich owner and grand ambition then that dream has died.

Bet you're a really happy person really as Funeral Directors go, to put it all into perpective, we have a new owner, we don't know his wealth or what they will or will not spend, we don't know their plans for the future, in fact we know nothing positive or negative.

What we know is the club has been sold to a consortiun who could pay whatever Peace was asking - the rest is pure speculation.

I don'tknow how people can be happy, sad or dissapointed a what may or may not happen, you can only make positive actions on things you can control or influence, everything else is a waste of nevous energy
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: palmaroy on August 05, 2016, 12:43:41 PM
In his first video he's mentioned he'd look forward to a top half finish asap. That's not very JP and sets a clear market for transfers etc...,,the fact Pulis has never finished top half might worry him personally?

TP would be well out of his comfort zone
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 12:46:53 PM
If he's a front man for larger and wealthier investors... Does this mean he may have a lot more wealthy available than just what him himself is worth?
Maybe if renames ground or a stand, the other outside investors would find it and put more into the club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 05, 2016, 12:48:34 PM
All the Peace hater`s seem to have gone a bit quiet deserves what he gets for keeping club solvent over the last few years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 05, 2016, 12:54:03 PM
http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/off-the-pitch/west-brom-albion/news/xia-takes-swipe-at-west-brom-wolves-owners_278221.html


Wtf!? I'm pretty sure that more thought went into finding our new owners, than did into theirs

The good doctor appears to be a bit of a loose cannon methinks........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 05, 2016, 12:54:23 PM
An absolute guess what Lai might really be thinking   8)

 I'll put together a fund using the vast wealth of say three or four very rich people. I'll buy a we'll run, solid, stable football club. Then, I'll ensure I have experienced local  true football people / experts running that club whilst I concentrate on building the foundations for that club / business to grow massively in the untapped Chinese market which I know very well.

It's important my new club do well and remain int eh premier league because it's broadcast everywhere these days and the Chinese people and government love the premier leag so I have big support at home.

I already have plenty of money set aside from my mates at the fund to help my new business buy players but I won't tell anyone that cause that would be thick and lead to other clubs ripping me off.

Hopefully the fans will see over time that I'm clever enough and well connected enough to help the club progress from my side, hopefully Williams, Hammond and Pulis will
Look after the football side of things well for me, if not I could always change .

:-\
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on August 05, 2016, 12:54:45 PM
If he's a front man for larger and wealthier investors... Does this mean he may have a lot more wealthy available than just what him himself is worth?
Maybe if renames ground or a stand, the other outside investors would find it and put more into the club?

It seems that way. Peace wouldn't have sold if the buyers weren't able to take us forward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 05, 2016, 12:56:47 PM
All the Peace hater`s seem to have gone a bit quiet deserves what he gets for keeping club solvent over the last few years.

Don't worry they are already back, complaining that they buyer isn't rich enough and disparaging Peace for not selling to Wanda et al so we could say we have more money then Villa and Wolves who if memory serves me well are in a lower division
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on August 05, 2016, 12:57:39 PM
With the recent news that European clubs inflate prices for cash rich Premier League clubs, could this be an attempt to warn those clubs whose players we bid for that we won't be just throwing cash around allover the place?

I mean look at the prices that City payed for players like Jo when they took over. It seemed a great chance for clubs to charge an arm and a leg because City had cash.

I am not for even a second suggesting that the funds we will have will come even close to that sort of money and yes I was extremely underwhelmed to find we had an investor who appeared to want to maintain the status quo..

But another season like last year and we will go done, so I think we will seriously invest in come players and we might even get 1-2 really good footballers join, because the owners would take a huge hit if they were to be relegated.

We might even sign another 5-6 defenders with almost a month left of the TM :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on August 05, 2016, 12:57:50 PM
I for one will be chuffed that the club is run the same way as it has been but with owners/investors slightly deeper pockets that Peace had.

Lets just wait and see what happens in this transfer window.  A signal of intent will be the first few signings and what happens with Pulis.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on August 05, 2016, 01:00:33 PM
He's only 42 as well, he could be loaded within years all we know
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 05, 2016, 01:05:36 PM
Sports development group.
is there any chance that Wanda are involved with sports group as I think could be wrong that they are connected to biggest club in Chinese league?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 05, 2016, 01:07:13 PM
An absolute guess what Lai might really be thinking   8)

 I'll put together a fund using the vast wealth of say three or four very rich people. I'll buy a we'll run, solid, stable football club. Then, I'll ensure I have experienced local  true football people / experts running that club whilst I concentrate on building the foundations for that club / business to grow massively in the untapped Chinese market which I know very well.

It's important my new club do well and remain int eh premier league because it's broadcast everywhere these days and the Chinese people and government love the premier leag so I have big support at home.

I already have plenty of money set aside from my mates at the fund to help my new business buy players but I won't tell anyone that cause that would be thick and lead to other clubs ripping me off.

Hopefully the fans will see over time that I'm clever enough and well connected enough to help the club progress from my side, hopefully Williams, Hammond and Pulis will
Look after the football side of things well for me, if not I could always change .

:-\


Let's hope you are very close with that analysis.  You may well be!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 05, 2016, 01:08:02 PM
is there any chance that Wanda are involved with sports group as I think could be wrong that they are connected to biggest club in Chinese league?

I'm still hearing evergrande are involved, makes sense as both heavily linked with Guangzhou.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on August 05, 2016, 01:10:24 PM
I'm still hearing evergrande are involved, makes sense as both heavily linked with Guangzhou.
wouldn't be surprised if it's secretly government backed either.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on August 05, 2016, 01:11:23 PM
Not confident about those chinese billionaires but hope that Lai is the right man to lead the club forward.
Welcome to West Bromwich Albion :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 05, 2016, 01:13:57 PM
wouldn't be surprised if it's secretly government backed either.

This is almost certain, Lai has massive connections with the government. His sports company is being given money to open stadiums in China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 05, 2016, 01:13:58 PM
I for one will be chuffed that the club is run the same way as it has been but with owners/investors slightly deeper pockets that Peace had.


Lets just wait and see what happens in this transfer window.  A signal of intent will be the first few signings and what happens with Pulis.
More ambition as much as deeper pockets would sit well with me. Be interested to see what Blackburn think of John Williams with the turbulent times they´ve been through although i believe he was around pre Venkys

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 05, 2016, 01:17:55 PM
Some of us are being a little short sighted here.

I go to Thailand every February for a month. I was a bit slow on the uptake to start with but I started noticing Leicester City FC club shops at both the airports I used all over Thailand, and the larger shopping malls in Bangkok. The fact that a Thai owned club has won the Premiership has not been lost on the Thai's and the shops and outlets are making a real turnover. However, there are still a lot of Man U/City/Chelsea/Liverpool glory hunter fans there, but Leicester are gathering a real following......

We are now owned by a group with access to the Chinese mass market. China is the absolute emerging market and there are many allegiances still to be won. So this deal not only feels safe, it exposes the club to a vast impressionable market which can only be good for WBA. There is a lot of money to be made in China and I am sure that this fact is not lost on the new owner's, and the more successful WBA are in the Premiership, then the more positive spin the owners can place in the Chinese market.

For me its a win/win situation here. We are foolish to pass judgement on a new owner based on a few hapless 'google' searches....... time will tell. I wish both JP and the new owners well and look forward to the new season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on August 05, 2016, 01:18:51 PM
All i have read is snippets and the articles like most others but lai seems the front man for a group of other investors who seem to have some money. To be honest john Williams seems to be a wise appointment and will be good for continuity. A man who knows football and seems well respected.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on August 05, 2016, 01:23:06 PM
More ambition as much as deeper pockets would sit well with me. Be interested to see what Blackburn think of John Williams with the turbulent times they´ve been through although i believe he was around pre Venkys
from what others have found out they love him and see him leaving as their downfall.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 01:26:29 PM
anyone know where to find the albion megastore in Shanghai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 05, 2016, 01:30:33 PM
anyone know where to find the albion megastore in Shanghai

It will be there soon, and we had better start saving for our pre season tour too........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 05, 2016, 01:31:09 PM
This idea that he is a front for wealthier investors, can someone answer why If he owns a controlling portion in the company that bought us, that it would be attractive for wealthier investors?

Lets say for instance, that he has 51%, and just two others have 24.5% each. As a 24.5% stakeholder, every pound I invest significantly benefits the controlling party much more than it does myself? Why would I do it?

Taking in to account this this isn't me buying in to a  growing company and wanting a piece of the pie / its future, this is being part of a new purchase where the previous owner was completely willing to sell.
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 05, 2016, 01:32:59 PM
A new company has been set up which has purchased us. Lai is the frontman for this company. Other members of this group are unknown
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 05, 2016, 01:34:59 PM
anyone know where to find the albion megastore in Shanghai
I believe its on LAI AVENUE
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on August 05, 2016, 01:38:58 PM
It looks like JP has managed to sell us to the one Chinese businessman who has no money to invest in the club, hence the statement emphasising continuity. It appears more than disappointing.

The new owner used to be a director in Palm, which is currently is valued at 1.8bn but last year had a turnover of £500m and a profit of just £7m - probably less than our football club made. He stepped down from Palm in 2014 but still has a seat on some subsidiary boards. He level of ownership of Palm to begin with has not been confirmed and a company making £7m a year doesn't have much clout.

If you look at the official statement on the wba site you will see that the new owner owns 59% and a separate investment group has taken the remainder so he didn't have enough cash to fund the purchase himself. Rumoured to be £200m on here by baggie38. The official statement confirms he has enough cash reserves to fund that, I.e more than £118m so I presume he has about £150m in the bank or did have before £118m was paid to Peace. The remaining £82m is from an investment group who we know nothing about. No evidence they have any clout or sizeable investments either. Presumably they will want a return / profit from the club in the long run.

The outcome appears
- new owner to remain based in China
- John Williams to run club
- No additional money to be invested in squad or facilities

In short our income hasn't changed, we are stuck with the PL tv money although in the long run we might get more commercial money from China. The new owner has talked about putting our logo on football community facilities in Eco towns that Palm is building in China...am I supposed to be excited and content with this?

All in the context of wolves being bought out by multi-billionaires. They have Walmart  and we have the equivalent of the ice cream seller. Thanks Jeremy.

So if your happy with the status quo and punching above our weight as a small club then you should be happy with the takeover, more of the same is promised. If you wanted a mega rich owner and grand ambition then that dream has died.

Exactly as I see it. I was always better the devil you know. The new owner is a Chinese JP and I would rather have the original.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 05, 2016, 01:42:49 PM
Happy so far for a number of reasons:

- Appears we're going to be a run as a business and not opening ourselves up to large spending sprees with little reward

- The appointment of John Williams is a very good safety net

- No large scales dreams like the normal rhetoric new chairman speak. Just continued improvement.


Happy with the news and looking forward to seeing the gradual changes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on August 05, 2016, 01:43:43 PM
I have copied and pasted this from the comments page on another site. Hope this is allowed by the Mods.

A breakdown of the shareholders for Yunyi Guokai Sports Development Limited is as follows (this according to an expert on Chinese businesses on Twitter):

Yunyiye - 59% - Shanghai Yunyiye Investment Management Center. Controlled by Guochuan Lai who provided the underlying equity to Yunyiye through a trust.

Yunjin - 23% - Shanghai Yunjin Investment Management Center. Funded by funds introduced by Yunyi investment.

Yuntai - 18% - Shanghai Yuntai Investment Management Center. Funds used by Yuntai to invest have been provided by Palm (Which Guochuan Lai headed previously).

It seems Lai is the figurehead of the group of Beijing-based investors - the identities of the investors are unknown right now but there's some serious money at play in China with regards to football and President Xi's remarks will only fuel investment. Crucially, it seems that this model will allow others to invest in the club.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: spencer Baggie on August 05, 2016, 01:47:57 PM
"They have substantial wealth that will fund new transfers" - what is your evidence for that statement? No committment to put any capital into the club and no evidence of any wealth. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on both counts...

If we'd gone with a 'loadsa dosh' press release, other clubs would take us to the mill over transfer fees etc. Better to be pragmatic in our approach.

Also, your negativity is enough to drive a man to drink. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Manc Baggie on August 05, 2016, 01:49:01 PM
An absolute guess what Lai might really be thinking   8)

 I'll put together a fund using the vast wealth of say three or four very rich people. I'll buy a we'll run, solid, stable football club. Then, I'll ensure I have experienced local  true football people / experts running that club whilst I concentrate on building the foundations for that club / business to grow massively in the untapped Chinese market which I know very well.

It's important my new club do well and remain int eh premier league because it's broadcast everywhere these days and the Chinese people and government love the premier leag so I have big support at home.

I already have plenty of money set aside from my mates at the fund to help my new business buy players but I won't tell anyone that cause that would be thick and lead to other clubs ripping me off.

Hopefully the fans will see over time that I'm clever enough and well connected enough to help the club progress from my side, hopefully Williams, Hammond and Pulis will
Look after the football side of things well for me, if not I could always change .

:-\

Would be nice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on August 05, 2016, 01:50:02 PM
is there any chance that Wanda are involved with sports group as I think could be wrong that they are connected to biggest club in Chinese league?

Wands didn't buy us. Leave it be now!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on August 05, 2016, 02:00:59 PM
In terms of transfers and money invested in the team, other than the usual suspects (Man Utd, Chelsea, City etc) who have bought these superstars? With some decent investment and scouting we can move forward. Southampton and Leicester come to mind as teams who have used their money wisely, spent good amounts but actually scouted decent players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on August 05, 2016, 02:05:25 PM
anyone know where to find the albion megastore in Shanghai
I was there a few months ago and did find and Aussie sports bar! Biggest damned city I have ever seen!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 02:07:55 PM
I was there a few months ago and did find and Aussie sports bar! Biggest damned city I have ever seen!

hopefully see a few wearing Albion tops on your next visit
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jack Thrust on August 05, 2016, 02:08:07 PM
So yesterday this whole takeover thing was a massive sham conspiracy on behalf of JP to con people into buying season tickets.

Now today JP has sold us down the river (Literally) by flogging us to some tin pot Chinese operation who don't have two Yuans to rub together (Despite the fact that they managed to drum up £200m, but hey any of us could have done that in a weekend).

I'm genuinely astounded.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Morany on August 05, 2016, 02:23:51 PM
It looks like JP has managed to sell us to the one Chinese businessman who has no money to invest in the club, hence the statement emphasising continuity. It appears more than disappointing.

The new owner used to be a director in Palm, which is currently is valued at 1.8bn but last year had a turnover of £500m and a profit of just £7m - probably less than our football club made. He stepped down from Palm in 2014 but still has a seat on some subsidiary boards. He level of ownership of Palm to begin with has not been confirmed and a company making £7m a year doesn't have much clout.

If you look at the official statement on the wba site you will see that the new owner owns 59% and a separate investment group has taken the remainder so he didn't have enough cash to fund the purchase himself. Rumoured to be £200m on here by baggie38. The official statement confirms he has enough cash reserves to fund that, I.e more than £118m so I presume he has about £150m in the bank or did have before £118m was paid to Peace. The remaining £82m is from an investment group who we know nothing about. No evidence they have any clout or sizeable investments either. Presumably they will want a return / profit from the club in the long run.

The outcome appears
- new owner to remain based in China
- John Williams to run club
- No additional money to be invested in squad or facilities

In short our income hasn't changed, we are stuck with the PL tv money although in the long run we might get more commercial money from China. The new owner has talked about putting our logo on football community facilities in Eco towns that Palm is building in China...am I supposed to be excited and content with this?

All in the context of wolves being bought out by multi-billionaires. They have Walmart  and we have the equivalent of the ice cream seller. Thanks Jeremy.

So if your happy with the status quo and punching above our weight as a small club then you should be happy with the takeover, more of the same is promised. If you wanted a mega rich owner and grand ambition then that dream has died.

Where do you get that from?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 05, 2016, 02:30:48 PM
I'm very pleased that we're entering a new era, as there have been distinct signs of increasing stagnation in recent years, and with stagnation would have come relegation sooner or later. Fingers crossed that we can move forward with increased ambitions that involve more than mere survival. It's certainly a watershed moment for the Club.

There's no point getting overly excited or massively depressed over Mr Lai (we should be thankful he's not called Woo! ;) ) and his consortium at this juncture, we just need to wait and see how things move forward. They and the new Chairman need time to get their metaphorical feet under the desk before we start making too many judgements about them. However, there's no question that John Williams is held in the higjest esteem by Blackburn fans and others in football, which can only bode well.

I hope the "2 or 3 new players" thing is a smokescreen, as we need more than that. It's going to be interesting to see what Pulis does now as, if the consortium is intent on marketing the club in China, they're not going to be wanting to be broadcasting "highlights" of games where we don't get any shots on target and just want to sit back all the time. A consolidation season is fine, but I hope that is also going to include more positivity in our play.

All the best to Guochuan Lai, his consortium and John Williams - let's get the players in we need and give it a good go this season!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 05, 2016, 02:38:46 PM
Exactly as I see it. I was always better the devil you know. The new owner is a Chinese JP and I would rather have the original.

Sorry, how the hell do you know he's the Chinese Jeremy Peace? He hasn't been here 7 hours and you've come to that conclusion based on what?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on August 05, 2016, 02:42:42 PM
Sorry, how the hell do you know he's the Chinese Jeremy Peace? He hasn't been here 7 hours and you've come to that conclusion based on what?

It just fits the miserable, pesimisstic attitude of people who refuse to see the good.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 05, 2016, 02:46:56 PM
Exactly as I see it. I was always better the devil you know. The new owner is a Chinese JP and I would rather have the original.
150 odd pages and this is quite the most ridiculous post in them unless you are his long lost brother Youmin Lye . Just how the hell do you know he is anything like JP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 02:50:14 PM
As you all probably know i am the biggest pesimist on here, ay kev :) but i am over the moon with our new era
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 05, 2016, 02:50:50 PM
As you all probably know i am the biggest pesimist on here, ah kev :) but i am over the moon with our new era

No you're not trust me  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on August 05, 2016, 02:50:55 PM
Sorry, how the hell do you know he's the Chinese Jeremy Peace? He hasn't been here 7 hours and you've come to that conclusion based on what?

It's hard to fathom the ignorance of some people. I was going to reply but to be honest, it's not even worth it. Some people will just moan for the sake of moaning.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 05, 2016, 02:54:03 PM
150 odd pages and this is quite the most ridiculous post in them unless you are his long lost brother Youmin Lye . Just how the hell do you know he is anything like JP.

Not sure it is anymore ridiculous than comments about being happy / delighted / pleased. Seems to me, that there is so little info available that nobody really has a clue.

You would hope the new chairman has asked questions before accepting the role though, and you hope JP has looked after the clubs interest, rather than selling to the first people that could meet his asking price.

 


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on August 05, 2016, 02:56:40 PM
jesus only just got on to welcome Mr Lai and people are complaining already. John Williams has a stellar reputation as a good Chairman he took Blackburn to the title. Mr Lai hasn't promised anything he can't deliver which is sensible and hopefully means steady growth. But no, it he's the Chinese JP! if he is then brilliant. Let the man get his toes under the table first before cruifying him. Anyway Welcome Mr Lai may our futures be bright
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Doobuy on August 05, 2016, 03:03:28 PM
the biggest indication of ambition is going from

JP under previous regime - we are a championship club punching above our weight

to

GL under new regime - aim is to be in the top half of the league in due course

anyone with an understanding of football would conclude that the latter requires investment at all levels - squad, management and infrastructure - and if this is the genuine aim, then this will happen. You dont buy a football club as a play thing anymore.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on August 05, 2016, 03:04:22 PM
They seem decent enough, most the terrible owners usually come in and promise the earth, the appointment of Williams and his statement seem to suggest the guy has a sensible head on his shoulders.

The amount of clubs that actually get taken over by benevolent billionaires who will happily absorb  massive losses for no gain is minuscule, unbelievable there's people throwing there toys out the pram because we don't have them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 05, 2016, 03:06:25 PM
jesus only just got on to welcome Mr Lai and people are complaining already. John Williams has a STELLA reputation as a good Chairman he took Blackburn to the title. Mr Lai hasn't promised anything he can't deliver which is sensible and hopefully means steady growth. But no, it he's the Chinese JP! if he is then brilliant. Let the man get his toes under the table first before cruifying him. Anyway Welcome Mr Lai may our futures be bright

He does seem to have a good rep, but I don't think he was involved in the Blackburn league title.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 05, 2016, 03:24:53 PM
anyone know where to find the albion megastore in Shanghai


Grand opening on Monday at 8.00 am 8/8/8
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on August 05, 2016, 03:26:17 PM
I think it would be extremely unwise of anyone to take a firm stance on this takeover at this stage.

From my point of view the takeover was needed desperately we as a club were starting to decline. We needed a change  and now we have one. Whether or not the new owner will be the one we all crave only time will tell.

My initial impression is fairly positive. The speech was obviously carefully planned and written but it would be easy for a new owner to try and gain popularity with unrealistic "promises". Mr Lai hasn't done that, he's been realistic but quietly positive with his initial comments.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating of course.

I want to see the image of the club grow and that very much includes a stadium expansion.

We go one of two ways from here either forwards or backwards. Lets get it right.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 03:34:08 PM
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/08/05/new-west-brom-chairman-john-williams-transfers-are-immediate-focus/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on August 05, 2016, 03:34:23 PM
He does seem to have a good rep, but I don't think he was involved in the Blackburn league title.

I'm pretty sure he was, but, if I'm wrong I stand corrected. Blackburn fans all say the loss of him was the beginning of the decline though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 03:37:04 PM
I'm pretty sure he was, but, if I'm wrong I stand corrected. Blackburn fans all say the loss of him was the beginning of the decline though.
And start of our incline :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 03:41:08 PM
What's difference between WBA investment group, conglomerate Wolves and the owner of villa... Not sure what he is though
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 03:50:46 PM
http://www.signal107.co.uk/news/local-sport/west-brom-the-latest-club-sold-to-chinese-investors/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 05, 2016, 03:55:33 PM
I wouldn't go that far but some serving of humble pie wouldn't go amiss

Can i have a big slice then please?  :)
Relief was my first emotion as i am sure it was for the majority of us.

I have to say i am pleased with this takeover, we have a young ambitious owner with a fast growing company, who hasn't shouted he will be pulling up trees but progressively trying to turn us into a top half club. Thats good enough for me.
The appointment of John Williams is also pleasing as he has knowledge of the premiership and english leagues, and Peace staying on in an advisory role is probably the icing on the cake.

People are saying he isn't that rich, he is a billionaire ffs, it doesn't matter how many billions an owner has, none of them will throw billions at a football club.

What i am hoping for is that when we identify a player who can improve us on the field, we can go out and compete for his signature without all the silly haggling that used to go on and leave us adrift in the transfer window.
Not talking about superstars but good honest pro's who can drive us forward.
We have done well so far living on a shoestring it will be nice to have someone who will back us in the window.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 05, 2016, 04:00:14 PM
just read that our new owner is worth 1.8 billion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 04:04:40 PM
https://youtu.be/t-9jQsPNwlI
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 05, 2016, 04:06:38 PM
anyone know where to find the albion megastore in Shanghai
I believe its on LAI AVENUE
isnt that between Halesowen and Stourbridge ? !!!! :D :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on August 05, 2016, 04:06:59 PM
It will be interesting to know if there are any other backers behind him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on August 05, 2016, 04:07:55 PM
It will be interesting to know if there are any other backers behind him.

Most likely from what I hear off the "experts".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 05, 2016, 04:08:04 PM
just read that our new owner is worth 1.8 billion.

thats most likely loose change
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 05, 2016, 04:11:43 PM
Is he worth £1.8bn though, or is his previous company worth £1.8bn?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on August 05, 2016, 04:12:31 PM
Welcome Guochuan Lai and good luck :D. Also thanks and good luck to JP for everything you did for the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 04:18:29 PM
just read that our new owner is worth 1.8 billion.
That's his personal wealth I think, but sounds like he's a front man for other, more wealthier investors that sound happy to help fund him towards goals
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 05, 2016, 04:21:50 PM
That's his personal wealth I think, but sounds like he's a front man for other, more wealthier investors that sound happy to help fund him towards goals

That's just the market value of a business he is involved in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan87uk on August 05, 2016, 04:27:32 PM
Firstly, Whatever you want to think of Jeremy Peace, you can't deny that he has bought stability to the club in the background and we still remain as one of the very few profitable clubs with no debt. So for that I say thank you Mr Peace for leaving my club in a solid financial position before moving on.

However, I do think that this takeover has come at pretty much just the right time to help progress the club to the next level. I'm cautiously optimistic of course, but in a world where billionaire owners in the prem are becoming commonplace now it was important for us to get ourselves near that level to continue to compete financially with some of the other clubs, in particular if we want to compete with the London based clubs we needed something like this to happen because lets face it, even some of the "smaller" clubs down there can still pull people in purely because they are in London so a little extra financial clout is always good to have.

One thing about new owners, they tend to stamp their mark on arrival with either a marquee signing (or 2) or a change of manager (or both). it remains to be seen what will happen for us in the remainder of the transfer market but if he's trying to market the club in China and attract further fans/investors over there then I find it difficult to see Pulis being at the club beyond the end of his current contract if we continue to play un-entertaining "hoof it and hope" football for the whole season. I still think he'll keep us up, but it will be painful viewing watching us squeeze the life out of a game to get the points we need....

Anyway, my two cents on the matter.

Cautiously Optimistic, waiting to see how it all unfolds.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 05, 2016, 04:30:34 PM
Can i have a big slice then please?  :)
Relief was my first emotion as i am sure it was for the majority of us.

I have to say i am pleased with this takeover, we have a young ambitious owner with a fast growing company, who hasn't shouted he will be pulling up trees but progressively trying to turn us into a top half club. Thats good enough for me.
The appointment of John Williams is also pleasing as he has knowledge of the premiership and english leagues, and Peace staying on in an advisory role is probably the icing on the cake.

People are saying he isn't that rich, he is a billionaire ffs, it doesn't matter how many billions an owner has, none of them will throw billions at a football club.

What i am hoping for is that when we identify a player who can improve us on the field, we can go out and compete for his signature without all the silly haggling that used to go on and leave us adrift in the transfer window.
Not talking about superstars but good honest pro's who can drive us forward.
We have done well so far living on a shoestring it will be nice to have someone who will back us in the window.

Good man! Never doubted your wanting the best for club and happy a takeover has settled you down. Hopefully we can start enjoying the club again mate.

Now do you want ice cream or custard with that pie ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: crazedwbafan18 on August 05, 2016, 04:45:44 PM
Still got a lot of reservations over this move. Most of all, however, we have become a classic premier league club and decreased the English ownership by one.?The guys heart is in the right place by the looks and he isn't getting too carried away, but I just fear for the typical Far East takeover and anonymity that is now so familiar in football. It's sad that we've lost our English owner now to the global premier league and become one of the rest in that sense. That's what I've always loved about the club, proud to be part of the Black Country, now I just feel that we have lost that a little. I hope we can keep our name, our grounds name and all that belongs to us too  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Do I not like Wolves on August 05, 2016, 04:53:18 PM
Just watched his ITV interview and he comes over ever so well.
http://www.itv.com/news/central/update/2016-08-05/video-why-the-new-chinese-owner-of-west-bromwich-albion-thinks-it-was-meant-to-be/?
No notes used but a good knowledge of the club in his head. very interesting he mentioned the 1978 ground breaking tour under Atkinson to China!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Throstletown on August 05, 2016, 05:10:00 PM
New owner, new vision, ambition and communication, welcome 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 05, 2016, 05:11:28 PM
I'm pretty sure he was, but, if I'm wrong I stand corrected. Blackburn fans all say the loss of him was the beginning of the decline though.

" Williams joined Rovers in 1997 as chief executive under Jack Walker, two years after the club had won the Premiership title.

Following the benefactor’s death in 2000, Williams was the custodian of the Walker legacy, overseeing promotion back to the Premiership in 2001, Worthington Cup glory in 2002 and 10 successive seasons in the top flight before his departure in February 2011 following the takeover of the club by Venky’s".

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/14664539.Former_Blackburn_Rovers_chief_John_Williams_to_take_over_as_West_Brom_chairman/ (http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/14664539.Former_Blackburn_Rovers_chief_John_Williams_to_take_over_as_West_Brom_chairman/)

Doesn't really matter anyway, excellent reputation.

Welcome to the club Mr Williams  8) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 05, 2016, 05:19:26 PM
Now do you want ice cream or custard with that pie ;)

Neither.
Divinewind likes his Sarah Hughes Ruby Mild and Black Country Real ales.

He'll be seen swallowing his humble pie whole with a slurp of funny juice while singing in joyous celebration.
He'll then jump onto a table with a wench on his arm before disappearing into the night.

Tora Tora Divinewind and Skol  8) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: section5 on August 05, 2016, 05:23:06 PM
Just watched his ITV interview and he comes over ever so well.
http://www.itv.com/news/central/update/2016-08-05/video-why-the-new-chinese-owner-of-west-bromwich-albion-thinks-it-was-meant-to-be/?
No notes used but a good knowledge of the club in his head. very interesting he mentioned the 1978 ground breaking tour under Atkinson to China!

This interview has relieved some of my initial worries and fears , seems he will adopt a laissez faire attitude to the squad and transfers, thus the appointment of an experienced knowledgeable chairman to deal with the day to day essentials and running of the club.
Hopefully we can expand into the Chinese market without "selling out" as it were, we need continued growth matched with stability and I hope we don't go stupid now we've got a bit of cash,  just sensible.
Seems like the throstle will be incorporated a lot now due to the bird link with Guangzhou, good marketing tool for over there and restore a bit of tradition and heritage over here.
Overall a lot more optimistic, hopefully it's not all a facade and we can start realistically looking at strengthening and building a squad with higher quality players than we may have previously been able to attract, and become a top half/mid table team without constantly flirting with relegation
COYB

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on August 05, 2016, 06:53:18 PM
Think it's a very sensible approach by William's regarding transfers, what's the point in coming out and saying we're going to throw money around like its gone out of fashion, other clubs are going to see this and suddenly add 10 million into the asking price. I just hope we become a solid we'll run club that shows some ambition to get ourselves up the league by playing a semblance of entertaining football.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 05, 2016, 07:00:12 PM
The Albion being owned by a business doesn't really sit right by me too well.
I want things to succeed, but being owned, what stops them getting rid of less lucrative parts?
Also a few years down the road, they could sell to another corporation who wont want to look after the finer things of our club and history.

Sorry to put a gloomy look to this thread, but it has to be mentioned.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 05, 2016, 07:18:39 PM
The Albion being owned by a business doesn't really sit right by me too well.
I want things to succeed, but being owned, what stops them getting rid of less lucrative parts?
Also a few years down the road, they could sell to another corporation who wont want to look after the finer things of our club and history.

Sorry to put a gloomy look to this thread, but it has to be mentioned.

Technically we were owned by a business under Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on August 05, 2016, 08:10:14 PM
The Albion being owned by a business doesn't really sit right by me too well.
I want things to succeed, but being owned, what stops them getting rid of less lucrative parts?
Also a few years down the road, they could sell to another corporation who wont want to look after the finer things of our club and history.

Sorry to put a gloomy look to this thread, but it has to be mentioned.

If's and but's mate, so far He's said the right things
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 05, 2016, 08:26:26 PM
I went through a few pages, but couldn't find the posting.
What was the Chinese for Hawthorns please.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 05, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
My initial thoughts on the takeover are generally positive

Firstly the resolution to the ownership issue is welcome because it has been plain that Peace has wanted to sell and without a resolution the club is in danger of treading water.

Secondly I am delighted that the new owners have chosen to appoint an experienced Chairman in John Williams. Equally given his recent experience of the Venkey's William's acceptance of the appointment would suggest that he believes that Lai is a decent owner.

While Guochuan Lai's initial comments have been measured and I'm pleased that there hasn't been any grandiose statements of intent we will only know how the club will be run once he has taken charge. However the appointment of Williams would suggest that our new owner won't meddle in the day to running of the club.

It is unclear as to the resources the new owners bring to the table nor their willingness to make additional investment in the club nor where this investment fits into the grander ambitions that the Chinese government harbours with regard to football.

We will only see how this works over the course of years, it is looking promising but we can't take anything for granted.



 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on August 05, 2016, 08:44:44 PM
The proof is in the pudding as they say and only time will tell if the takeover can move us forward. One thing I will say is that I'm delighted with all the noises they are making, none of this rubbish about having x amount to spend and targeting Champions League in a couple of years like some have done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 09:03:09 PM
Flicking through channels earlier, and that prog called room 101 with frank skinner.... A guy in it was talking about its silly the huge amount of money they get paid for kicking a ball. He thought franks local team was West Ham lol... Frank gave him a death stare lol
Then they guy said about imagine if a multi billionaire came in and put a lot of money into west brom, then they would become a big team around the world, he said something like but no one would do that.. And audience laughed.

Bit of coincidence that is on tv, the day we get taken over lol
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 09:09:36 PM
I read in here last year when rumours of take over was going around, that peace left east and west stand with no name on purpose, to maker them free for renaming for any potential future buyers. Is this true?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 05, 2016, 09:13:02 PM
I just ask all us fans to feel a bit more positive ( not over the top positive) & give the new owners a chance to show us their intent. Here's to the future.
Baggie till i die 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 09:27:45 PM
Full interview..

https://youtu.be/6j46HlhrWP8
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 05, 2016, 09:33:18 PM
He says new chairman, TP and Nick will have full support whenever needed :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on August 05, 2016, 09:40:34 PM
Does anyone have the feeling the Sakho dealing could have fallen through due to the fact we might be looking at a higher quality of player maybe? Wishful thinking maybe on my part as I'm sure Pulis etc will have met the prospective owners before today but maybe the all clear came only a few days ago and we called the deal off as we have been given bigger funds to chase better players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on August 05, 2016, 09:52:45 PM
its great news that Peace is staying on for 12 months, this should help the club cope with the change of ownership in a more professional manner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 05, 2016, 10:05:35 PM
Does anyone have the feeling the Sakho dealing could have fallen through due to the fact we might be looking at a higher quality of player maybe? Wishful thinking maybe on my part as I'm sure Pulis etc will have met the prospective owners before today but maybe the all clear came only a few days ago and we called the deal off as we have been given bigger funds to chase better players.

No. We don't have to take lame horses, now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 05, 2016, 10:19:54 PM
Does anyone have the feeling the Sakho dealing could have fallen through due to the fact we might be looking at a higher quality of player maybe? Wishful thinking maybe on my part as I'm sure Pulis etc will have met the prospective owners before today but maybe the all clear came only a few days ago and we called the deal off as we have been given bigger funds to chase better players.

We haven't sold Sadio yet & JP has gone all but in name. ??? new contract maybe.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on August 05, 2016, 10:23:37 PM
We haven't sold Sadio yet & JP has gone all but in name. ??? new contract maybe.
Could be who knows what is going on behind the scenes.But if he stays would like another striker as insurance if he does not perform.Not saying he wont try but we will be short in that dept.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on August 05, 2016, 10:27:13 PM
I went through a few pages, but couldn't find the posting.
What was the Chinese for Hawthorns please.
Shãnzhã is hawthorn berry(berry of Hawthorn) so singular would be Zhã, said without any change in pitch. not sure how plural works yet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 05, 2016, 10:32:26 PM
Cheers...Will send this on to a friend who has called his house The Hawthorns. He is a long standing Baggies fan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on August 05, 2016, 10:50:39 PM
Cheers...Will send this on to a friend who has called his house The Hawthorns. He is a long standing Baggies fan.
im useless at characters so had to google it, the plural is Shānzhā qiúchang (literally field of Hawthorn bushes) and the characters are 山楂球场
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 05, 2016, 10:52:59 PM
I also used Google Translate and listened to the sounds.
You'd think they would have put it in pigeon English.   8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aixelsyd on August 05, 2016, 11:03:21 PM
OK here is my thoughts.  ;)

I had been quite worried about the potential new ownership of the Club, especially when you see and hear what is coming out of some of the other newly purchased teams.

The Club ownership business model which they all seem to use is... Buy a Team and hang your brand name all over it. The Club's fame builds your Brand's name in the European/World market place to try to increase your profits.

So far reported our new Owner has a different take on it.  Buy a Team and hang the Club's Logo on your business to increase the fame of the Club, to increase it's fan base / turnover, which generates your profit.

It is a big difference and at this moment I like the sound of it.


EDIT: and just to mention that Palms major client is the Chinese Government so it is not like they need to World Advertise.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on August 05, 2016, 11:05:39 PM
Ok! Let's hope all the back slapping , happy clapping ,congratulations,well done mate is all done ,because in a weeks time we kick off the new season and we need some new faces in .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on August 06, 2016, 07:14:57 AM

Well worth a read - more of the new owner's plans in this Club Q&A

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/west-brom-albion-qa-guochuan-lai-premier-league-takeover-3227313.aspx

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on August 06, 2016, 07:15:36 AM
I remember reading a takeover article awhile ago, when it mentioned williams taking over as chairman. Just out of interest does anyone remember who which paper and who wrote it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on August 06, 2016, 07:22:27 AM
I remember reading a takeover article awhile ago, when it mentioned williams taking over as chairman. Just out of interest does anyone remember who which paper and who wrote it?

I recall reading something to this effect too. Sorry, can't remember where or when.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 06, 2016, 07:34:29 AM
He has bought the club for cash so there is no debt. Very positive as I have been told the deal was close to £200 million. He mentions the government a bit in that article. he doesn't want to change our identity or a new stadium so that's positive. I am 100% sure that our stadium will be developed into 35-40k in the next 5 years
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 06, 2016, 08:06:32 AM
One of things that I was most concerned about was the level of debt involved in the transaction reading the Q&A it would seem that there is none either at the club level or within the new Parent Company. Obviously that can change but it would suggest that the takeover is well funded and that Lai is a serious entrepreneur rather than a silver tongued chancer, which is a relief.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 06, 2016, 08:09:34 AM
One of things that I was most concerned about was the level of debt involved in the transaction reading the Q&A it would seem that there is none either at the club level or within the new Parent Company. Obviously that can change but it would suggest that the takeover is well funded and that Lai is a serious entrepreneur rather than a silver tongued chancer, which is a relief.

You seem to know your stuff, what does it mean when he says the parent company has funded it through equity?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: section5 on August 06, 2016, 08:27:12 AM
You seem to know your stuff, what does it mean when he says the parent company has funded it through equity?

Basically he's used his capital gained from shares/assets he already has, as opposed to financing the deal against the assets of the club, I think lol
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 06, 2016, 08:32:35 AM
Could we also be backed or linked to Chinese government then? This would mean we would have limitless funds or a hell of a lot of funds. Some say wanda are linked too, could they also be one of the backing/support companies
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 06, 2016, 08:34:31 AM
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2016/08/06/wolves-v-albion-v-villa-how-do-the-new-chinese-owners-compare/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on August 06, 2016, 08:41:36 AM
does anybody have any idea of the wealth of the chinese takeover? have we been taken over with alot of money behind them or not much really? not that it matters now just wondered
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on August 06, 2016, 08:45:11 AM
"In case there is any doubt, I also want to make it clear that I have no intention of changing the Club’s identity, its famous colours or the stadium."

I'm really starting to like this guy. He's saying all the right things. Hopefully it will be backed up by the right actions
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on August 06, 2016, 08:49:41 AM
"In case there is any doubt, I also want to make it clear that I have no intention of changing the Club’s identity, its famous colours or the stadium."

I'm really starting to like this guy. He's saying all the right things. Hopefully it will be backed up by the right actions
fully agreed and the right action at the moment is getting some decent first team players in. ideally more than 2/3 aswell
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on August 06, 2016, 09:24:50 AM
He's made all of the right noises so far. He seems very level headed but with a clear vision of how he wants to develop us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on August 06, 2016, 09:34:52 AM
At last, a vision and some direction. Something we haven't had since Ashworth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 06, 2016, 09:36:01 AM
An old list as puts us as worth 50 million in 17th place. We would have jumped up to 11th or 10th now... Or maybe a lot higher, if you take into account the worth of the investment groups behind him or the total worth of all tge companies he owns or involved in.. Like palm and the Chinese government :)

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/509191/Revealed-Which-Premier-League-owner-richest-wealthy-your-club-s-chief
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 06, 2016, 09:50:14 AM
At last, a vision and some direction. Something we haven't had since Ashworth.

We've always had vision & direction. The vision & direction has got us to where we are now. The problem was the tank had run out of petrol. We've now got the same vision & direction but with a full tank. Unless there's a catastrophic global crisis, this is only going one way & that's onward & upward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on August 06, 2016, 09:51:02 AM
Certainly saying the right things, hope he backs them up .
I for one would have hated to see the youth system shunted to one side after years of hard work just to sign big money names.
Hopefully good times ahead.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 06, 2016, 10:09:52 AM
You seem to know your stuff, what does it mean when he says the parent company has funded it through equity?

The Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited owns the club. It is in turn owned by

Yunyiye - 59% Owned by Guochuan Lai who provided the underlying equity to Yunyiye through a trust.
Yunjin - 23% - An investment fund which has sold shares in Yunyi it is private equity vehicle which would offer shares to wealthy investors or other investment funds.
Yuntai - 18% -  Palm which was Guochuan Lai's company before he sold the bulk of his shareholding

The investors have bought shares and the funds (equity) has been used to purchase the club. Neither the club nor Yunyi Guokai have any debt and have not borrowed funds to complete the purchase. Some of the investors may have borrowed funds to buy their shares but critically the servicing of that debt is the investors responsibility not the company's nor critically the club's

The composition of the 23% is unknown, it could be one or two wealthy individuals, government backed investment funds or a myriad of smaller investors. Your guess is as good as mine.

In practical terms what does this mean for the club?

Firstly we are not paying interest just to fund the takeover which is a big plus when you consider the at the extreme Man United are paying £35m in interest a year largely for the privilege of having the Glazers as their owners.

Secondly there is still scope for the club to carry some debt for long term development projects e.g Stadium Redevelopment

It should be noted that the corporate structure does probably limits the ability for Lai to treat the club as a personal fiefdom there is a significant minority interest which will demand a say in how the club is run, it is not a question of the owner writing cheques. 

However this is a business and there will be a profit to be made. Whether that is directly through the club's activities future sale or a spin off urban development project or through the Chinese Government's willingness to subidise the development of football remains to be seen



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 06, 2016, 10:26:50 AM
The Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited owns the club. It is in turn owned by

Yunyiye - 59% Owned by Guochuan Lai who provided the underlying equity to Yunyiye through a trust.
Yunjin - 23% - An investment fund which has sold shares in Yunyi it is private equity vehicle which would offer shares to wealthy investors or other investment funds.
Yuntai - 18% -  Palm which was Guochuan Lai's company before he sold the bulk of his shareholding

The investors have bought shares and the funds (equity) has been used to purchase the club. Neither the club nor Yunyi Guokai have any debt and have not borrowed funds to complete the purchase. Some of the investors may have borrowed funds to buy their shares but critically the servicing of that debt is the investors responsibility not the company's nor critically the club's

The composition of the 23% is unknown, it could be one or two wealthy individuals, government backed investment funds or a myriad of smaller investors. Your guess is as good as mine.

In practical terms what does this mean for the club?

Firstly we are not paying interest just to fund the takeover which is a big plus when you consider the at the extreme Man United are paying £35m in interest a year largely for the privilege of having the Glazers as their owners.

Secondly there is still scope for the club to carry some debt for long term development projects e.g Stadium Redevelopment

It should be noted that the corporate structure does probably limits the ability for Lai to treat the club as a personal fiefdom there is a significant minority interest which will demand a say in how the club is run, it is not a question of the owner writing cheques. 

However this is a business and there will be a profit to be made. Whether that is directly through the club's activities future sale or a spin off urban development project or through the Chinese Government's willingness to subidise the development of football remains to be seen

Brilliant mate, thank you!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 06, 2016, 10:42:29 AM
In the short term we need investment in first team so by the end of transfer window we will see if new owners have cold hard cash to back up their words
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 06, 2016, 11:12:18 AM
I had a lengthy downbeat post yesterday lamenting the lack of new investment. To put it all in a fair context on the upside:

-John Williams seems sensible and experienced
-The new owners have not leveraged the club with any debt (like JP did)
-Hammond / Pulis remain in charge of the team and no real change with day-to-day affairs

But no sign any additiitional revenue to invest in the team or facilities so essentially more of the same with fresh faces. Essentially we remain a well run club just a shame the money men have not turned up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 06, 2016, 11:16:25 AM
I had a lengthy downbeat post yesterday lamenting the lack of new investment. To put it all in a fair context on the upside:

-John Williams seems sensible and experienced
-The new owners have not leveraged the club with any debt (like JP did)
-Hammond / Pulis remain in charge of the team and no real change with day-to-day affairs

But no sign any additiitional revenue to invest in the team or facilities so essentially more of the same with fresh faces. Essentially we remain a well run club just a shame the money men have not turned up.

Palm are worth £1.8 billion, Lai is worth a bit more and there are very wealthy backers backing him up. There will be money to spend but it will probably be next summer as we can't just spend vast sums due to FFP. This summer I'd say there will be minimum £50 mill net spend
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: buzzingbaggie on August 06, 2016, 11:23:50 AM
Palm are worth £1.8 billion, Lai is worth a bit more and there are very wealthy backers backing him up. There will be money to spend but it will probably be next summer as we can't just spend vast sums due to FFP. This summer I'd say there will be minimum £50 mill net spend

How have you come to the conclusion Lai is worth more than £1.8 billion? Palm have a value of 1.8 billion but I would presume this is locked into assets so doesn't really give us an indication of cash which would be injected , the only figure we have is they return a profit of 7 million .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBrainy on August 06, 2016, 11:32:04 AM
How have you come to the conclusion Lai is worth more than £1.8 billion? Palm have a value of 1.8 billion but I would presume this is locked into assets so doesn't really give us an indication of cash which would be injected , the only figure we have is they return a profit of 7 million .

Firstly Palm isn't his only business venture.

Secondly yes Palm made £7m profit , you do realise this is after investors took a 'salary'

And thirdly Mr.Lei made an annual income of £138million last year ....

Stop guessing and let the man show us what he's here for, then we can make our opinions based off of that , but so far so good his answers on the Q&A were a fantastic start let's support our wonderful club on our journey to a new era
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 06, 2016, 11:33:03 AM
The Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited owns the club. It is in turn owned by

Yunyiye - 59% Owned by Guochuan Lai who provided the underlying equity to Yunyiye through a trust.
Yunjin - 23% - An investment fund which has sold shares in Yunyi it is private equity vehicle which would offer shares to wealthy investors or other investment funds.
Yuntai - 18% -  Palm which was Guochuan Lai's company before he sold the bulk of his shareholding

The investors have bought shares and the funds (equity) has been used to purchase the club. Neither the club nor Yunyi Guokai have any debt and have not borrowed funds to complete the purchase. Some of the investors may have borrowed funds to buy their shares but critically the servicing of that debt is the investors responsibility not the company's nor critically the club's

The composition of the 23% is unknown, it could be one or two wealthy individuals, government backed investment funds or a myriad of smaller investors. Your guess is as good as mine.

In practical terms what does this mean for the club?

Firstly we are not paying interest just to fund the takeover which is a big plus when you consider the at the extreme Man United are paying £35m in interest a year largely for the privilege of having the Glazers as their owners.

Secondly there is still scope for the club to carry some debt for long term development projects e.g Stadium Redevelopment

It should be noted that the corporate structure does probably limits the ability for Lai to treat the club as a personal fiefdom there is a significant minority interest which will demand a say in how the club is run, it is not a question of the owner writing cheques. 

However this is a business and there will be a profit to be made. Whether that is directly through the club's activities future sale or a spin off urban development project or through the Chinese Government's willingness to subidise the development of football remains to be seen

That's where I see the oppportunities, but thanks for that Stan. Just as a matter of interest, I assume that the percentages above are percentages of JP's interest in WBA? If so, does yunyiye's 59% still give Guochuan Lai a controlling interest. (I'm not sure of JP's interest, but anything less than 84% wouldn't)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 06, 2016, 12:07:15 PM
That's where I see the oppportunities, but thanks for that Stan. Just as a matter of interest, I assume that the percentages above are percentages of JP's interest in WBA? If so, does yunyiye's 59% still give Guochuan Lai a controlling interest. (I'm not sure of JP's interest, but anything less than 84% wouldn't)

JP's underlying interest in the club was 88%.  59% of 88% is 51.92%, so yes, Lai has a controlling interest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: buzzingbaggie on August 06, 2016, 12:20:00 PM
Firstly Palm isn't his only business venture.

Secondly yes Palm made £7m profit , you do realise this is after investors took a 'salary'

And thirdly Mr.Lei made an annual income of £138million last year ....

Stop guessing and let the man show us what he's here for, then we can make our opinions based off of that , but so far so good his answers on the Q&A were a fantastic start let's support our wonderful club on our journey to a new era


 Simply sking where figures came from so I can form some educated opinions as to his/consortium wealth. Agree proof is in the pudding but curiosity is difficult to quell into our owners potential wealth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on August 06, 2016, 01:28:55 PM
Not sure the #7m profit is post investors dividend. It depends how the company is financed but it is a listed business so they would only be servicing debt; and I assume they'd normally wish to see solid free cashflow - the only real way to understand that is a review Palms balance sheet.

Interested where the annual income information came from?

Firstly Palm isn't his only business venture.

Secondly yes Palm made £7m profit , you do realise this is after investors took a 'salary'

And thirdly Mr.Lei made an annual income of £138million last year ....

Stop guessing and let the man show us what he's here for, then we can make our opinions based off of that , but so far so good his answers on the Q&A were a fantastic start let's support our wonderful club on our journey to a new era
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on August 06, 2016, 01:33:15 PM
If he needed any investors as did jp ,I would imagine he would be more likely to get them on board.Just a thought.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on August 06, 2016, 02:34:04 PM
Having thought about things I feel very much like I did after the Brexit result. Delighted with the outcome and potential for things to get better but more likely very little change and just business as usual. I think we may have found the Chinese JP!  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 06, 2016, 02:46:20 PM
Just for the sake of clarity Yunyi Guokai will own 100% of WBA Holdings. Peace owns 88% so it is in effect his to sell but under takeover law the minority shareholders are entitled or more accurately obliged to sell their stake on the same terms. Once the deal goes through Peace will no longer be a shareholder.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on August 06, 2016, 02:47:59 PM
Having thought about things I feel very much like I did after the Brexit result. Delighted with the outcome and potential for things to get better but more likely very little change and just business as usual. I think we may have found the Chinese JP!  :D
Except we haven't got t our club back, probably even the opposite of the referendum. being ruled from afar!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on August 06, 2016, 02:57:28 PM
Having thought about things I feel very much like I did after the Brexit result. Delighted with the outcome and potential for things to get better but more likely very little change and just business as usual. I think we may have found the Chinese JP!  :D

He's far richer and influential than Jeremy Peace. He has to be or Jeremy Peace wouldn't have sold to him. We categorically will now be able to compete with other clubs in the transfer market. That was the main pre-requisite for any sale. Peace is a massively cautious and calculated businessman. He always did things in the best interest of the club whether we agreed with all of his decisions or not, I certainly didn't on many occasion, but he always protected his and the clubs interests. This is a massive coup for us and I cannot wait to see what happens over the next couple of years. I can see that transfer record getting smashed a few times.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: buzzingbaggie on August 06, 2016, 02:58:47 PM
Just for the sake of clarity Yunyi Guokai will own 100% of WBA Holdings. Peace owns 88% so it is in effect his to sell but under takeover law the minority shareholders are entitled or more accurately obliged to sell their stake on the same terms. Once the deal goes through Peace will no longer be a shareholder.

So there will be some very happy shareholders perhaps waiting for an offer?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 06, 2016, 03:16:40 PM
Who cares what he's worth - it's not a big swinging d*ck competition. He's hust spent hundreds of millions on buying us, he's rich enough. The longer we go without knowing Lai's worth the less we'll be taken for a ride by selling clubs. Quiet improvement is infinitely better than the Seals and Dingles forcing price tags up with unnecessary boasting.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 06, 2016, 03:50:14 PM
Who cares what he's worth - it's not a big swinging d*ck competition. He's hust spent hundreds of millions on buying us, he's rich enough. The longer we go without knowing Lai's worth the less we'll be taken for a ride by selling clubs. Quiet improvement is infinitely better than the Seals and Dingles forcing price tags up with unnecessary boasting.

Spot on.  Whether he's worth £1 billion, £5 billion or £10 billion is irrelevant.  He can't recklessly throw it at transfers and wages because the FFP restrictions are still there.  It simply allows us to compete better with our peer group without being left behind.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 06, 2016, 04:11:15 PM
Spot on.  Whether he's worth £1 billion, £5 billion or £10 billion is irrelevant.  He can't recklessly throw it at transfers and wages because the FFP restrictions are still there.  It simply allows us to compete better with our peer group without being left behind.

and then it's up to being smart in out player recruitment search, team tactics, coaching and management
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Andio on August 06, 2016, 05:30:54 PM
Well worth a read - more of the new owner's plans in this Club Q&A

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/west-brom-albion-qa-guochuan-lai-premier-league-takeover-3227313.aspx

Saying all the right things indeed.

Welcome to the club!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smosher34 on August 06, 2016, 05:40:05 PM
I just hope he can take the club forward and we don't  go same way as the blues . so before end of the month we shall see .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 06, 2016, 05:50:57 PM
Can get around FFP though by renaming or paying fines
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 06, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
Can get around FFP though by renaming or paying fines

Not really.  Can't keep renaming the stadium.  Lots of the loopholes are now closed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 06, 2016, 06:31:51 PM
I just hope he can take the club forward and we don't  go same way as the blues . so before end of the month we shall see .

In the short term we will know next to nothing because either the plans are in place for transfers or not the deal has happened too late to make a material difference. What is not going to happen is a naive splurge like Tony Fernandes at QPR where every over priced over paid has been or never would be formed an orderly queue to take  his money.

Can get around FFP though by renaming or paying fines
Yes there is scope but there is a limit and in any event there first steps up the ladder can be achieved without any need to breach the FFP regulations. The ones with real teeth are the Premier League regulations which are backed up with points deductions and that is what would need to worry about rather than UEFA ffp
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 06, 2016, 08:02:44 PM
Spot on.  Whether he's worth £1 billion, £5 billion or £10 billion is irrelevant.  He can't recklessly throw it at transfers and wages because the FFP restrictions are still there.  It simply allows us to compete better with our peer group without being left behind.

FFP is only about debt. It's there to stop owners mortgaging the club to buy players, I think we established some time ago, that an owner can put whatever he likes into a football club, providing it's in the form of equity. I suspect WBA will be a nice little "tax sink" for Palm.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 06, 2016, 09:51:36 PM
I don't claim to know anything about the new owner or his potential investments , but no one invests sums without the expectation of either personal gratification (jack walker) or a ROi.
Peace was somewhere in between , I rate him and am really glad he is staying for a year, I hope these guys turn us in to a similar version of man city, academy development sensible progression and some decent football to watch.....
Truth is its not "our team" anymore and hasn't been for some time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on August 07, 2016, 07:40:25 AM
suspect mr Lai will have to wait a while to see his new club in the top half of the premier league.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on August 07, 2016, 08:07:07 AM
The only way anyone will receive a ROI from the purchase of the club is if the club are successful. It's a mutually beneficial outcome.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on August 07, 2016, 11:32:16 AM
The only way anyone will receive a ROI from the purchase of the club is if the club are successful. It's a mutually beneficial outcome.

Totally agreed, it's in the new owners' (there are many of them, not just Mr Lai) interest to not only keep us in the Prem, but also step up realistically a level (constantly 8th to 12th, not 12th to 17th).

These aren't the owners I'd hoped for, but they do represent a logical step of progression from JP.

It's all down to what happens on the pitch now in the forthcoming 6-9 months. Pulis to keep us up, then be replaced in the summer and hopefully the play to improve.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: don1thedon on August 07, 2016, 03:02:37 PM
It's all down to what happens on the pitch now in the forthcoming 6-9 months. Pulis to keep us up, then be replaced in the summer and hopefully the play to improve.
Even that's looking a tall order at the moment! :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on August 07, 2016, 09:49:04 PM
with the news that sales and marketing director Adrian Wright has stepped down, will Mark Jenkins remain as chief executive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on August 07, 2016, 10:29:39 PM
with the news that sales and marketing director Adrian Wright has stepped down, will Mark Jenkins remain as chief executive.

Read he has has also gone from a very reliable poster on another board.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on August 07, 2016, 10:36:55 PM
Read he has has also gone from a very reliable poster on another board.
but there's a quote from Jenkins on this article dated today so it does appear he's still at the club.http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/2/843503251?-11200:789:0
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on August 07, 2016, 11:23:34 PM
http://www.wba.co.uk//news/article/2016-17/wba-adrian-wright-baggies-albion-premier-league-3232139.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk//news/article/2016-17/wba-adrian-wright-baggies-albion-premier-league-3232139.aspx)

He's gone, OS confirms it.

I imagine our sales and marketing will be more China-focused, makes sense.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on August 07, 2016, 11:36:36 PM
but there's a quote from Jenkins on this article dated today so it does appear he's still at the club.http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/2/843503251?-11200:789:0

Article was written 5th August, was delayed before before being published. Pretty sure he is gone or close to going.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 08, 2016, 12:18:56 AM
If Williams is going to be a hands on Chairman/CEO Jenkins position doesn't make an lot of sense I would be very surprised if he continued much beyond an initial transition period.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 08, 2016, 12:53:03 AM
Jenkins will be going very soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: CanadaBaggieEh! on August 08, 2016, 03:43:54 AM
Just seen this interesting page

http://stock.stockstar.com/SS2016080800000520.shtml

Put it through Google translate and it says Palm contribution to buying WBA was 300 million yuan roughly £35million. So the breakdown should be roughly

The Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited owns the club. It is in turn owned by

Yunyiye - 59% Owned by Guochuan Lai who provided the underlying equity to Yunyiye through a trust. £112.7m
Yunjin - 23% - An investment fund which has sold shares in Yunyi it is private equity vehicle which would offer shares to wealthy investors or other investment funds. £43.9m
Yuntai - 18% -  Palm which was Guochuan Lai's company before he sold the bulk of his shareholding £34.4m

So works out to a grand total paid of £191m
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on August 08, 2016, 07:35:37 AM
Jenkins will be going very soon.

Why does everyone not like him?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on August 08, 2016, 01:38:10 PM
Why does everyone not like him?

He's generally seen (by fans) as responsible for the mistakes starting about three years ago, and the lack of direction we currently have
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 08, 2016, 02:02:46 PM
Why does everyone not like him?
Posts on other forums (which I can't link to here), suggest that, how can I put it, he's not the nicest person to work for/with.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: superkev on August 08, 2016, 02:51:12 PM
I met him to complain that as I was now a pensioner aged 65 why couldnt I not get a reduction in my season ticket after paying the full adult price for 25 years.
His reply was "tough" if you want a cheaper ticket go in the smethwick end as Halfords Lane is premier view.
When I said others around me are paying a reduced rate he said that was allowed before his time and will not happen for existing STH 
Basically like it or lump it,
 ::)
 I didnt like it but I havent lumped it :'(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 08, 2016, 05:35:28 PM
Posts on other forums (which I can't link to here), suggest that, how can I put it, he's not the nicest person to work for/with.

Correct
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 09, 2016, 02:05:23 PM
Mr Guochuan Li is at the ground today, I thought he was not going to be in the country till next week for the Everton game? Wonder what is going on?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on August 09, 2016, 02:09:43 PM
Mr Guochuan Li is at the ground today, I thought he was not going to be in the country till next week for the Everton game? Wonder what is going on?

Maybe he is here to give someone the bad news!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on August 09, 2016, 02:10:04 PM
Mr Guochuan Li is at the ground today, I thought he was not going to be in the country till next week for the Everton game? Wonder what is going on?
probably just "around" then flying off back to China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on August 09, 2016, 02:14:11 PM
Mr Guochuan Li is at the ground today, I thought he was not going to be in the country till next week for the Everton game? Wonder what is going on?

Wouldn't get too excited!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 09, 2016, 02:15:27 PM
Maybe he's choosing the free scarves?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 09, 2016, 02:18:59 PM
He's taking pictures of the stadium.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 09, 2016, 02:19:03 PM
he s here for the everton game so probably staying over in beautiful west bromwich
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 09, 2016, 02:35:59 PM
watch him doze off against Everton
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: albion59 on August 09, 2016, 02:40:53 PM
he s here for the everton game so probably staying over in beautiful west bromwich
There's nothing wrong with west Bromwich Glyn, I'm there! :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 09, 2016, 02:58:08 PM
There's nothing wrong with west Bromwich Glyn, I'm there! :P


and i was born & bred there Keith, thats why i  say it s beautiful  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on August 09, 2016, 03:37:46 PM
Mr Guochuan Li is at the ground today, I thought he was not going to be in the country till next week for the Everton game? Wonder what is going on?

He's planting a lovely decorative border around the pitch
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on August 09, 2016, 04:50:16 PM
Has the t/over been fully completed or are the F.A. still to approve it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 09, 2016, 04:56:52 PM
Has the t/over been fully completed or are the F.A. still to approve it?

The 42-year-old Chinese entrepreneur, who will become Albion's new owner when his deal with former Chairman Jeremy Peace is approved by he Financial Conduct Authority and the Premier League, toured both the training ground and The Hawthorns.
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/guochuan-lai-described-his-first-day-at-albion-as-exceeding-all-his-expectations-after-a-whirlwind-tour-of-the-hawthorns-3236377.aspx#QrA26rRbdCdzSHtS.99
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on August 09, 2016, 05:08:34 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 09, 2016, 05:21:30 PM
The 42-year-old Chinese entrepreneur, who will become Albion's new owner when his deal with former Chairman Jeremy Peace is approved by he Financial Conduct Authority and the Premier League, toured both the training ground and The Hawthorns.
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/guochuan-lai-described-his-first-day-at-albion-as-exceeding-all-his-expectations-after-a-whirlwind-tour-of-the-hawthorns-3236377.aspx#QrA26rRbdCdzSHtS.99


Cheers Kev, i see hes brought his family with him
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: rajesh-wba on August 09, 2016, 08:05:49 PM
Mr Guochuan Li is at the ground today, I thought he was not going to be in the country till next week for the Everton game? Wonder what is going on?

I saw him at the ground today. Happened to be there as was due to collect tickets for Palace.
He arrived in a Navy Blue Bentley Superfly Continental (nice car!) with his entourage.
Also present was Williams, Garlick and Jenkins.
On first impressions, I like the sound and look of Lai. No hot air like Dr. Tony Xia.
Hopefully we can conduct business and go under the radar.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on August 09, 2016, 08:44:19 PM
I saw him at the ground today. Happened to be there as was due to collect tickets for Palace.
He arrived in a Navy Blue Bentley Superfly Continental (nice car!) with his entourage.
Also present was Williams, Garlick and Jenkins.
On first impressions, I like the sound and look of Lai. No hot air like Dr. Tony Xia.
Hopefully we can conduct business and go under the radar.
If Pulis is staying then I hope we start business soon
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 09, 2016, 09:18:00 PM
I would say our biggest problem is not Tony Pulis, but if we pull out of a Chinese venture on Hinckley Point, apparently they're right p*ssed off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on August 09, 2016, 09:59:49 PM
I would say our biggest problem is not Tony Pulis, but if we pull out of a Chinese venture on Hinckley Point, apparently they're right p*ssed off.
It is a security issue. I would rather get that sorted than not. If they were really friendly then they would understand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mikehy on August 09, 2016, 10:18:07 PM
Optimism only lasted couple of days but now obvious the dinosaur is staying and bigger transfers not going to happen. Relegation still a ceryainty
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 09, 2016, 10:22:05 PM
It is a security issue. I would rather get that sorted than not. If they were really friendly then they would understand.

Not disagreeing, but it could impact on WBA
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 09, 2016, 10:28:41 PM
Optimism only lasted couple of days but now obvious the dinosaur is staying and bigger transfers not going to happen. Relegation still a ceryainty

Subject to what I posted earlier, my optimism is still there. It might not happen as quickly as some would like, but there is no doubt that the intention is a metamorphosis of WBAFC.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on August 09, 2016, 10:37:02 PM
It is a security issue. I would rather get that sorted than not. If they were really friendly then they would understand.

They're not friendly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 09, 2016, 11:11:25 PM
I would say our biggest problem is not Tony Pulis, but if we pull out of a Chinese venture on Hinckley Point, apparently they're right p*ssed off.

What's this about?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 09, 2016, 11:42:18 PM
What's this about?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37020651 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37020651)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on August 10, 2016, 12:38:30 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37020651 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37020651)

And you think this will impact on the Albion?

I imagine there are thousands of relations between us and the chinese, this has just become a highprofile balls up, nothing more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: swad35 on August 10, 2016, 05:07:32 AM
And you think this will impact on the Albion?

I imagine there are thousands of relations between us and the chinese, this has just become a highprofile balls up, nothing more.

You no longer get free prawn crackers at my local Chinese.........there's something not right here, Sakho not signing and then this.......I blame TP
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on August 10, 2016, 06:11:22 AM
His comment of 'I can't wait to see my first game against Everton' made me chuckle, he must be about the only one and 10 minutes in he'l have realised he's travelled thousands of miles to watch a paint drying exercise.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on August 10, 2016, 06:23:43 AM
Is he officially the smallest chairman in the Prem?
He looks like he could walk under a bog door with a top hat on
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on August 10, 2016, 07:13:17 AM
When he was taking pictures with squad there was no berahino  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 10, 2016, 07:20:44 AM
Saido is on a slow boat to China !!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: swad35 on August 10, 2016, 07:46:21 AM
Is he officially the smallest chairman in the Prem?
He looks like he could walk under a bog door with a top hat on

Wearing heels
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 10, 2016, 08:17:14 AM
Wearing heels

On stilts - did you hi next to Olsson!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 10, 2016, 08:18:02 AM
And you think this will impact on the Albion?

I imagine there are thousands of relations between us and the chinese, this has just become a highprofile balls up, nothing more.

I think it could yes, if relationships between UK & China are soured because of a decision to pull out of Hinckley Point, than they'd be soured at every level. Lai wants to use us to showcase football in China, that's football, not necessarily English Football.

AND the acquisition hasn't been ratified yet (as of yesterday), which is probably why we haven't spent any money yet.


Quote
Lai enjoys first day at Albion



PUBLISHED
16:00 9th August 2016
And skipper Fletcher praises Lai's enthusiasm

GUOCHUAN Lai described his first day at Albion as "exceeding all his expectations" after a whirlwind tour of the Club.

The 42-year-old Chinese entrepreneur, who will become Albion's new owner when his deal with former Chairman Jeremy Peace is approved by he Financial Conduct Authority and the Premier League, toured both the training ground and The Hawthorns.

Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/guochuan-lai-described-his-first-day-at-albion-as-exceeding-all-his-expectations-after-a-whirlwind-tour-of-the-hawthorns-3236377.aspx#t6uzkYvCh4o9Xf60.99
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 10, 2016, 08:27:20 AM
Stop going on about Hinckley point its 1 programme on the BBC that few people watch it won`t impact on the Albion to me its only scare mongering this takeover has happened and will be ratified. That's just my opinion though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 10, 2016, 08:41:07 AM
Mr Lai looks like the Chinese version of Frank Skinner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mikehy on August 10, 2016, 08:55:29 AM
Does anyone know how long the ratification process takes
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 10, 2016, 09:00:21 AM
Cannot see Hinckley Point having any impact whatsoever on the Albion deal. Its a business/trade deal between two countries and if May wants to have another look then she is perfectly within her right to do so. I am quite sure that diplomacy will prevail. If China have said adverse things about our 'relationship' then it will be directed towards international trade

Of course we could always hit back by boycotting our local Chinese takeaways....... and we all know that's not going to happen!

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 10, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
This is also interesting

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2016/08/10/west-brom-takeover-calls-for-delay-over-unfair-treatment-of-shareholders/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2016/08/10/west-brom-takeover-calls-for-delay-over-unfair-treatment-of-shareholders/)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 10, 2016, 09:37:24 AM
Stop going on about Hinckley point its 1 programme on the BBC that few people watch it won`t impact on the Albion to me its only scare mongering this takeover has happened and will be ratified. That's just my opinion though.

Do you know what Hinkley Point is?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 10, 2016, 09:42:08 AM
This is also interesting

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2016/08/10/west-brom-takeover-calls-for-delay-over-unfair-treatment-of-shareholders/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2016/08/10/west-brom-takeover-calls-for-delay-over-unfair-treatment-of-shareholders/)

Can't see this holding up the deal. Like it or not Lai has negotiated a deal to purchase Peace's shares. It is now up to the smaller shareholders to attempt to negotiate deals themselves if they wish to sell.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 10, 2016, 09:42:55 AM
Cannot see Hinckley Point having any impact whatsoever on the Albion deal. Its a business/trade deal between two countries and if May wants to have another look then she is perfectly within her right to do so. I am quite sure that diplomacy will prevail. If China have said adverse things about our 'relationship' then it will be directed towards international trade

Of course we could always hit back by boycotting our local Chinese takeaways....... and we all know that's not going to happen!

Don't know if you've ever dealt with the Chinese, but honour is really important to them & any pull out by us, in the Hinkley point deal will be viewed in China as dishonourable. What the consquenses of that will be to WBA, I don't know? but I suspect not good.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 10, 2016, 09:46:56 AM
Until Hinkley Point is definitely affecting the club/takeover please refrain from posting about it in the takeover thread. If you wish to discuss it then the news thread in the off topic section is where you need to be. Cheers
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 10, 2016, 09:49:02 AM
Can't see this holding up the deal. Like it or not Lai has negotiated a deal to purchase Peace's shares. It is now up to the smaller shareholders to attempt to negotiate deals themselves if they wish to sell.

I'm not sure Jacko, like you, I thought Lai had bought JP's 88% & the other shareholders would be given a similar offer, but according other posters, S4A might be forced to sell under international acquisition laws, so that Lai gets 100%. In any event, I can't see us pushing any buttons on players until the deal is ratified, so the sooner the better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on August 10, 2016, 09:49:28 AM
So sentimental owners of shares are wanting to hold up the deal so that they can get a better deal for themselves.

im flabbergasted by that, last thing we need with the season upon us is a hold up with the takeover and therefore a hold up with transfers
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Morany on August 10, 2016, 09:51:55 AM
So sentimental owners of shares are wanting to hold up the deal so that they can get a better deal for themselves.

im flabbergasted by that, last thing we need with the season upon us is a hold up with the takeover and therefore a hold up with transfers

That's what I though. Wonder how much the shares were worth originally
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mikehy on August 10, 2016, 09:55:45 AM
So when it comes to it the money matters more than the sentiment. Disgraceful thing they are trying to do
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on August 10, 2016, 09:58:44 AM
So sentimental owners of shares are wanting to hold up the deal so that they can get a better deal for themselves.

im flabbergasted by that, last thing we need with the season upon us is a hold up with the takeover and therefore a hold up with transfers

Lai has no obligation to make them an offer nor did Peace have to consult them when selling his 88%. They're a bunch of self important twats who would sooner see us relegated than move with the times, all for the sake of being able to call themselves shareholders.

It's alright when it's someone elses money they're spending but when it's their own their sending letters to the Premier League, cryarses.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 10, 2016, 10:00:55 AM
So when it comes to it the money matters more than the sentiment. Disgraceful thing they are trying to do
didn't invest in share option but if peace can make money on his shares why not the small share holder?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 10, 2016, 10:02:27 AM
So sentimental owners of shares are wanting to hold up the deal so that they can get a better deal for themselves.

im flabbergasted by that, last thing we need with the season upon us is a hold up with the takeover and therefore a hold up with transfers


My mates got one share, he reckon hes worth 20k :o


but you are right its most likely going to hamper our season
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on August 10, 2016, 10:04:12 AM
didn't invest in share option but if peace can make money on his shares why not the small share holder?

They can, they'll just have to negotiate their own deal. Same as Peace did, just so happens he owned 88% of them. Not just one or two for the sake of being able to tell his mates he was a shareholder.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on August 10, 2016, 10:05:49 AM
didn't invest in share option but if peace can make money on his shares why not the small share holder?

Im pretty sure they can make money on the shares, but the point remains that Lai is under no obligation to purchase them or make them an offer so unless someone wants to buy them then they have no authority to hold up the takeover or the ratification process whatsoever.

It just smacks of hey we want money aswell.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 10, 2016, 10:12:29 AM
I find the shareholders story a little surprising - as a shareholder who goes to the S4A meetings, the general consensus was to keep our shares. Under business acquisition and shareholdings regulations, should Mr. Lai get 90% of the shareholdings of the club, there would be a mandatory sale of all other shares to him, at the same per-share value he purchased 88% of them from Peace. This would mean that everyone would get the £15,000+ they'd be worth. The vast majority of people I know through S4A bought the shares for sentimental value and the comments of some of the higher ups in that article I find a little unfair - there had been mentions of protecting investments but not to the scale that they seem to be expressing in the article.

In fact for many years S4A's primary aim was to give the smaller shareholders the opportunity to group together and communicate properly in order to PREVENT the mandatory sale of our shares to Peace, and I witness people sell shares within the groups so that those who wanted to cash in could sell to another small shareholder and not lose the shares to Peace or others - so to do a complete U-turn and complain we're not being offered anything is a little contradictory. Very confused as to how there's been a sudden flip-flop.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 10, 2016, 10:14:54 AM
I don`t mind the shareholders trying to get there money of the shares what does annoy me is taking the club to task over them. Stop the fit and proper until we've had our say DONT THEY realise they the ones  holding the club back by trying to tell the FA that they can`t sanction our takeover. STOP being such mindless buffoons and let the club get on with trying to keep us in the PREMIERSHIP .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on August 10, 2016, 10:42:47 AM
I don't see how this can hold things up for longer than it takes to read the letter & stick it in the bin.

If they want to keep their shares they can & if they want to sell them then they can do that too. All they have to do is go out and find a buyer the same as Mr Peace did.

It seems to me it's people complaining because they want to sell their shares and nobody will buy for the price they want. Well tough that's life. Either reduce your asking price until someone will buy or keep them. It sounds just like one of our transfer deals!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 10, 2016, 10:52:09 AM
Good reply ABAGGIE never thought of it like that but your right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 10, 2016, 11:01:14 AM
I find the shareholders story a little surprising - as a shareholder who goes to the S4A meetings, the general consensus was to keep our shares. Under business acquisition and shareholdings regulations, should Mr. Lai get 90% of the shareholdings of the club, there would be a mandatory sale of all other shares to him, at the same per-share value he purchased 88% of them from Peace. This would mean that everyone would get the £15,000+ they'd be worth. The vast majority of people I know through S4A bought the shares for sentimental value and the comments of some of the higher ups in that article I find a little unfair - there had been mentions of protecting investments but not to the scale that they seem to be expressing in the article.

In fact for many years S4A's primary aim was to give the smaller shareholders the opportunity to group together and communicate properly in order to PREVENT the mandatory sale of our shares to Peace, and I witness people sell shares within the groups so that those who wanted to cash in could sell to another small shareholder and not lose the shares to Peace or others - so to do a complete U-turn and complain we're not being offered anything is a little contradictory. Very confused as to how there's been a sudden flip-flop.

Very east to understand - potential large financial gain - "loads of money"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 10, 2016, 11:09:53 AM
I don't see how this can hold things up for longer than it takes to read the letter & stick it in the bin.

If they want to keep their shares they can & if they want to sell them then they can do that too. All they have to do is go out and find a buyer the same as Mr Peace did.

It seems to me it's people complaining because they want to sell their shares and nobody will buy for the price they want. Well tough that's life. Either reduce your asking price until someone will buy or keep them. It sounds just like one of our transfer deals!

This will be one or two of the larger shareholders looking to make money. There's a couple people with 50-60 shares who could make a killing and still retain a single share for sentiments sake. Do NOT blame all shareholders for this, this is an isolated few that are kicking off. As I said before, I'm a shareholder, I'm not selling, I'm not looking to sell. The vast majority of small shareholders have a single share. I will check later to see just how many the guy who's written to the FA has and that'll hopefully show his motivation here.

It's drunk me off because S4A have always been about protecting the interests of those who want to own part of our club, not those who want to profit from it. It was established to protect our single or handful of shares and become a larger group that could fend off the sale of shares to prevent a 90% holding that would make us all lose ours. So for a few members to take this stance now is both upsetting, annoying and downright unfair on those people we've spent 10 or so years trying to look after.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 10, 2016, 11:19:07 AM
Okay I've got a run down of Neil Reynold's shareholdings and he has 12 shares. At an estimated £15,000+ per share this guy would net at least £180,000 if he sold his shares. He mentions a wife, son and grandaughter. Although there's every possibility (and probabaility) that there are Reynolds not related to him on the list of shareholders, there are in fact 4 Reynolds listed, one of which has 15 shares (presumably his son) and one with 10 (presumably his wife). There's at least 38 shares held by four people called 'Reynolds' which may or not be related. So that means despite making approx £180,000 for himself, his family COULD make £570,000.

 This seems to be his motivation. As chairman of the S4A I have absolutely no doubt that he's using his position to make it look like the whole group are concerned about wanting to sell their shares, when realistically it's because he's a relatively large shareholder and wants to make some personal gain. As with my experience of the S4A members, the majority don't care how much they're offered, they won't sell.

Smacks of personal bitterness and greed. Hope he's ousted as Chairman.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 10, 2016, 11:20:46 AM
I'm not sure Jacko, like you, I thought Lai had bought JP's 88% & the other shareholders would be given a similar offer, but according other posters, S4A might be forced to sell under international acquisition laws, so that Lai gets 100%. In any event, I can't see us pushing any buttons on players until the deal is ratified, so the sooner the better.

"Don't know if you've ever dealt with the Chinese, but honour is really important to them & any pull out by us, in the Hinkley point deal will be viewed in China as dishonourable. What the consequences of that will be to WBA, I don't know? but I suspect not good

Contradicting statements  ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on August 10, 2016, 11:26:51 AM
Okay I've got a run down of Neil Reynold's shareholdings and he has 12 shares. At an estimated £15,000+ per share this guy would net at least £180,000 if he sold his shares. This seems to be his motivation. As chairman of the S4A I have absolutely no doubt that he's using his position to make it look like the whole group are concerned about wanting to sell their shares, when realistically it's because he's a relatively large shareholder and wants to make some personal gain. As with my experience of the S4A members, the majority don't care how much they're offered, they won't sell.

Smacks of personal bitterness and greed. Hope he's ousted as Chairman.

I'm sure your right but I don't understand what he is trying to achieve with the letter. Nothing is stopping him from selling his shares for £15k+ if he wants to. He just needs to find a buyer & neither the Premier League of the FCA are going to do that for him.

Whether the deal goes through or not doesn't make any difference to his shareholding so i'm totally confused as to what he is trying to achieve!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 10, 2016, 11:28:08 AM
Fully appreciate what you are saying Psalm.

The article linked below quotes Mr Reynolds in an article dated 2013, when JP was 'consolidating' his position ahead of any potential takeover when he had 59.9% of the club shares.

"West Bromwich Albion: Shareholders group reacts to Jeremy Peace transferring Baggies stake to new company.

A shareholders group has responded to Jeremy Peace transferring his controlling stake in West Bromwich Albion to a new holding company.

Peace has moved his 59.9 per cent stake into West Bromwich Holdings Limited.

Neil Reynolds, chairman of Shareholders 4 Albion, said: “The new structure may well make it more attractive to a potential buyer should Mr Peace ever wish to sell the club and there would be no obligation on a prospective buyer to acquire any of our shares in West Bromwich Albion Group.

“That’s no different to the previous situation, though, in that a new owner could have taken control by buying Mr Peace’s 59.9 per cent share of WBA Group and would not have had to make an offer for anyone else’s shares.

“Since Mr Peace is the only shareholder in the new WBA Holdings company, there will be no AGM, which will unfortunately make him even more remote from us shareholders in WBA Group. This is a pity, since an AGM provides the opportunity to formally recognise the great progress that the club continues to make under his stewardship.

“There could possibly be a very positive benefit for us shareholders in WBA Group, however, in that I hope Mark Jenkins will resume holding the WBA Group AGM in West Bromwich, its spiritual home.”


From both this article and from memory the stance back then regarded a lack of respect and communication. While apparently still salient points, to an outsider looking in some of the emphasis appears to have shifted.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-bromwich-albion-shareholders-group-4045721 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-bromwich-albion-shareholders-group-4045721)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 10, 2016, 11:34:19 AM
I'm sure your right but I don't understand what he is trying to achieve with the letter. Nothing is stopping him from selling his shares for £15k+ if he wants to. He just needs to find a buyer & neither the Premier League of the FCA are going to do that for him.

Whether the deal goes through or not doesn't make any difference to his shareholding so i'm totally confused as to what he is trying to achieve!

You and me both. There's only 8 people with more shares than his son and him listed as shareholders. His family own about 0.3% of the club and couldnt even force a 90% holdings sale if they sold all their shares. He sounds bitter, and I'm absolutely positive he's using his clout as the S4A chairman to make this seem like the majority of shareholders are behind him which is, in my experience, far from true.

Edit: Just seen SmethDan's reply - how obvious is it now this is down to personal greed, when the guy was talking 3 years ago about putting people's minds at ease that there wouldn't be a forced sale of thier shares, now he's moaning that a buyer hasn't made him an offer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 10, 2016, 01:42:10 PM
They can, they'll just have to negotiate their own deal. Same as Peace did, just so happens he owned 88% of them. Not just one or two for the sake of being able to tell his mates he was a shareholder.
well it looks like some of them are by putting pressure on the new owners to buy their shares with the hold up of sale of club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 10, 2016, 02:10:00 PM
well it looks like some of them are by putting pressure on the new owners to buy their shares with the hold up of sale of club

They have no power to delay anything. Peace has not sold the club. He's sold 88 percent of it. Again this is much ado about nothing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 10, 2016, 02:16:35 PM
They have no power to delay anything. Peace has not sold the club. He's sold 88 percent of it. Again this is much ado about nothing.

It's about something though Jacko, last Thursday, approval from the FA & Financing authority was expected to be nodded through, almost a week later, & it's not ratified yet. Somethings holding it up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 10, 2016, 02:30:10 PM
It's about something though Jacko, last Thursday, approval from the FA & Financing authority was expected to be nodded through, almost a week later, & it's not ratified yet. Somethings holding it up.
could it be Peace has been sold a pup, taking into account lack of movement in transfer market
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 10, 2016, 02:50:08 PM
Here we go again negativity just wait until the checks are done  I believe it will go through you don`t think Peace would let it fall through a second time NO CHANCE it would cost two much and we know what a skinflint he`s been, be patient its only been 5 days since the announcement.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: east-stand-nick on August 10, 2016, 03:07:30 PM
It's getting tiring seeing every single concern being labelled as "negativity".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 10, 2016, 03:09:53 PM
It's about something though Jacko, last Thursday, approval from the FA & Financing authority was expected to be nodded through, almost a week later, & it's not ratified yet. Somethings holding it up.

Pretty sure it doesn't just get waved through.... There are actual checks that need to be done. Believe it can take anywhere up to a month.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: east-stand-nick on August 10, 2016, 03:18:42 PM
In happier news, our new owner is giving all fans a free drink at the game against Everton...

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/wba-guochuan-lai-drink-albion-everton-premier-league-3239382.aspx
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on August 10, 2016, 04:06:38 PM
I would expect the owner to start sanctioning moves soon, if not relegation might be huge concern and if we were to go down in our first season under a new owner it could prove disastrous
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on August 10, 2016, 05:03:06 PM
I would expect the owner to start sanctioning moves soon, if not relegation might be huge concern and if we were to go down in our first season under a new owner it could prove disastrous

Relax. Pulis guarantees survival so I keep hearing.  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Laurie Cunningham on August 10, 2016, 06:45:59 PM
He's talking about buying everyone a drink! Don't bother buy some players, his he jp in disguise ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Laurie Cunningham on August 10, 2016, 07:05:30 PM
BTW I think buying us all a drink is to give the illusion of being very wealthy or super rich, when man city were bought they showed there intent buy bringing in rabinio not by buying everyone a drink, come on even Bournemouth are miles in front of us when it comes to transfers, I hope it's not going to end in tears, but only time will tell.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 10, 2016, 07:16:26 PM
BTW I think buying us all a drink is to give the illusion of being very wealthy or super rich, when man city were bought they showed there intent buy bringing in rabinio not by buying everyone a drink, come on even Bournemouth are miles in front of us when it comes to transfers, I hope it's not going to end in tears, but only time will tell.

It's a voucher to use at the kiosk, it's just a goodwill gesture, the club are working on transfer deals.

As to Bournemouth they've wasted 3 times as much on an inferior winger to the one we've signed.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tgd26 on August 10, 2016, 07:18:37 PM
BTW I think buying us all a drink is to give the illusion of being very wealthy or super rich, when man city were bought they showed there intent buy bringing in rabinio not by buying everyone a drink, come on even Bournemouth are miles in front of us when it comes to transfers, I hope it's not going to end in tears, but only time will tell.

Ha ha, are you serious? He has just purchased the club without taking any loans against the club. How does him buying everyone a drink prove his wealth more than  that does?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 10, 2016, 07:22:26 PM
Ha ha, are you serious? He has just purchased the club without taking any loans against the club. How does him buying everyone a drink prove his wealth more than  that does?
sign a few players of quality that will show us if he's  going to be a good owner simple
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slate on August 10, 2016, 07:25:53 PM
BTW I think buying us all a drink is to give the illusion of being very wealthy or super rich, when man city were bought they showed there intent buy bringing in rabinio not by buying everyone a drink, come on even Bournemouth are miles in front of us when it comes to transfers, I hope it's not going to end in tears, but only time will tell.

He has bought our club, made a very good first impression and has offered to buy home fans a beer and give away fans a scarf. I just see this as kind and generous. How can you see anything else?!?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tgd26 on August 10, 2016, 07:26:33 PM
sign a few players of quality that will show us if he's  going to be a good owner simple

I'm not disagreeing with that - clearly that's hpw he wikl show his intent.

I was disagreeing with the idea his gesture of buying everyone a drink was in some way an attempt to prove his wealth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: monkey nuts on August 10, 2016, 08:22:06 PM
It's about something though Jacko, last Thursday, approval from the FA & Financing authority was expected to be nodded through, almost a week later, & it's not ratified yet. Somethings holding it up.
Yeah it's about a bloke suddenly realising how much his shares are worth and money grabbing his statement does not speak for all shareholders and contradicts his comment a couple of weeks ago it can't and won't stop it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on August 10, 2016, 08:45:55 PM
It's about something though Jacko, last Thursday, approval from the FA & Financing authority was expected to be nodded through, almost a week later, & it's not ratified yet. Somethings holding it up.

They never get nodded through, there will be so much paperwork to look through and you are working on their time not ours they are under no pressure to rush anything through. Di you seriously expect it to go through within a week?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Laurie Cunningham on August 10, 2016, 09:04:23 PM
Ha ha, are you serious? He has just purchased the club without taking any loans against the club. How does him buying everyone a drink prove his wealth more than  that does?

Sombody somwhere owes someone 150 million  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on August 10, 2016, 10:05:56 PM
Not disagreeing, but it could impact on WBA
Well we will see but the security of the UK is of paramount importance to me.If they are so "Honorable"They would have no objections in our security investigating the issue.
China is a country with its own issues paramount.
The treatment of it's close neighbours leads me to believe.....watch your back. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 10, 2016, 10:19:41 PM
They never get nodded through, there will be so much paperwork to look through and you are working on their time not ours they are under no pressure to rush anything through. Di you seriously expect it to go through within a week?
Wasn't it said that the deal was agreed towards the end of June, but couldn't be announced until last week because it had to all be ratified in China? Why couldn't the same thing have happened over here during the period between the end of June and last week?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 10, 2016, 10:31:35 PM
Wasn't it said that the deal was agreed towards the end of June, but couldn't be announced until last week because it had to all be ratified in China? Why couldn't the same thing have happened over here during the period between the end of June and last week?

Because until it was ratified in China there was no one for the FA to investigate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 11, 2016, 09:03:23 AM
Surely Guochuan doesnt want to see his investment halved by getting relegated
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 11, 2016, 09:32:08 AM
Surely Guochuan doesnt want to see his investment halved by getting relegated
just heard that a load of footballers have been caught by revenue in a tax fiddle with celebrities as well. They were investing in making Hollywood films .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 11, 2016, 10:52:02 PM
An unverified Twitter account has popped up, I'm not convinced... Yet.

If it is a catfish then it's very restrained and well laid out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 11, 2016, 11:01:37 PM
Sorry the jacko 2000 but what are you on about I know nothing about twitter or facebook never been on them
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 11, 2016, 11:05:40 PM
just heard that a load of footballers have been caught by revenue in a tax fiddle with celebrities as well. They were investing in making Hollywood films .

Not sure what that has to do with this topic to be honest
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 11, 2016, 11:08:35 PM
Just seen this on FB.
We are work on new player and projects.

Future will bright WBA fans.
(GL)
#BoingBoing

Supposed to be from Guochuan Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 11, 2016, 11:09:21 PM
Just seen this on FB.
We are work on new player and projects.

Future will bright WBA fans.
(GL)
#BoingBoing

Supposed to be from Guochuan Lai.

Not real account.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 11, 2016, 11:10:51 PM
Not real account.
I did say supposed to be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on August 11, 2016, 11:12:00 PM
Just seen this on FB.
We are work on new player and projects.

Future will bright WBA fans.
(GL)
#BoingBoing

Supposed to be from Guochuan Lai.

Good chance of being real as the first post was back in February saying coming soon. Who would have known back then he would be our new owner?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 11, 2016, 11:15:03 PM
Sorry the jacko 2000 but what are you on about I know nothing about twitter or facebook never been on them

There is a Twitter account in our new chairman's name, it is as yet unverified whether it is him, but normally fake accounts aren't as well put together, or as restrained in their postings as this one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on August 11, 2016, 11:17:57 PM
There is a Twitter account in our new chairman's name, it is as yet unverified whether it is him, but normally fake accounts aren't as well put together, or as restrained in their postings as this one.

Pretty sure the local journalists were asked the other day about one on Twitter and the club told them it was fake.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 11, 2016, 11:52:54 PM
Good chance of being real as the first post was back in February saying coming soon. Who would have known back then he would be our new owner?

Yes but you can change a Twitter name easily. Could have been set up in February under the name John Smith then changed the day he bought us. That would be backed up by no interaction between the first post and the day he became active. Surely a Chinese businessman wouldn't set up a Twitter account in February, purely to talk about football in August. Why no other tweets about Chinese business?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WestBromJim on August 12, 2016, 03:19:23 PM
Lai has no obligation to make them an offer nor did Peace have to consult them when selling his 88%. They're a bunch of self important twats who would sooner see us relegated than move with the times, all for the sake of being able to call themselves shareholders.

It's alright when it's someone elses money they're spending but when it's their own their sending letters to the Premier League, cryarses.

So basically what UP has done then.'
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on August 13, 2016, 12:35:13 AM
Pulis quotes about JP suggests he was just ready to sell to highest bidder regardless of what money they would put in. Sounds very much like status quo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 13, 2016, 05:35:45 PM
I listened to a thread via vipbox today.

Early in the game the commentator was talking with Tony Gayle and swore blind that word on the street is the takeover will not be completed until October  :o :o .

Gotta be b@ll@cks surely!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 13, 2016, 05:38:04 PM
I listened to a thread via vipbox today.

Early in the game the commentator was talking with Tony Gayle and swore blind that word on the street is the takeover will not be completed until October  :o :o .

Gotta be b@ll@cks surely!

I heard them say something about October but missed the first part of what they were saying
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on August 13, 2016, 05:45:02 PM
They said that the takeovers due procedure won't be ratified until October...

Don't think he knows what he is talking about if I'm honest
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 13, 2016, 06:07:26 PM
The free scarves went down a treat today and helped the atmosphere
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on August 13, 2016, 06:21:23 PM
3 points closer to the magic 40 so the owner can sleep a little easier tonight.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 13, 2016, 06:28:41 PM
I really hope he doesn't open a Tw@tter account to celebrate like the dick down the road ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 13, 2016, 07:21:34 PM
I really hope he doesn't open a Tw@tter account to celebrate like the dick down the road ;) .
like to see him open his wallet before deadline day though
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 13, 2016, 07:30:11 PM
The free scarves went down a treat today and helped the atmosphere


What an idea , inspirational if you ask me
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: adamw1109 on August 13, 2016, 08:15:32 PM
The free scarves went down a treat today and helped the atmosphere

The free beer will go down even better next week!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 13, 2016, 08:18:00 PM
The free beer will go down even better next week!  ;D


It will choke some if we loose
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on August 14, 2016, 12:16:37 PM
Anyone know what the hold up is .Is it our end or the Chinese end,seems strange but I know nowt about business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on August 14, 2016, 12:47:53 PM
No holds by what I can see the fit and proper checks normally take a while. I think you will find it took swans, Everton and the 2 Dingles a few weeks before it was ratified.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: fosse on August 14, 2016, 01:14:47 PM
on the vip feed yesterday they said it could be october before its done and dusted. :-[
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 14, 2016, 03:34:29 PM
on the vip feed yesterday they said it could be october before its done and dusted. :-[

They know even less than I do :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on August 14, 2016, 05:02:10 PM
I thought ours was done in june.What is it that is taking so long.Is it going to have an impact on transfers.After searching for a buyer I would personally not want it to fail at this stage.This t/over is taking longer than our transfers do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on August 14, 2016, 05:12:43 PM
I'm no expert but it isn't like going to the shop and paying for something at checkout. It isn't even like buying a house.

The deal between the buyers and Peace was agreed in June. There was paperwork to be done in China which caused a delay.

We now have to wait for the FA to do their checks about fit and proper ownership. The fact that Mr Lai is giving out free scarves and beer suggests this isn't interfering with the running of the club, plus John Williams is already Chairman and Pulis has said he is trying to push deals through.

Maybe not all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed until October, but I doubt it's affecting us now it's all in the open
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on August 14, 2016, 05:21:24 PM
Thanks for the reassurance.Never thought I would ever see a t/over in my lifetime.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 14, 2016, 09:08:42 PM
And look at the fit and proper persons test

If some of those basket cases at Portsmouth, Vincent Tan and Massimo Cellino can pass the test I'm sure Lai will be able to as well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 18, 2016, 11:03:01 AM
does anyone think when settled we will see some financial investment clout
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mrvulgarity on August 18, 2016, 11:04:53 AM
does anyone think when settled we will see some financial investment clout

I'm hoping for an element of the 3 midlands teams fighting for supremacy.

I picture all 3 chinese owners in one room declaring who has the better team, and thus money suddenly starts to flow....

But in all seriousness, I think we will spend more money in January than in this summer
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 18, 2016, 11:07:46 AM
does anyone think when settled we will see some financial investment clout

 I actually think so WBA, I am hoping that the new Chairman is assessing the situation and will report to Mr Lai about his considerable investment, and appropriate events will take place to develop his 'interest' into the product that he wants.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 18, 2016, 11:24:46 AM
What a market he will have over in China, when sale official the only chineese premier league owner. show us some wonga
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on August 18, 2016, 04:36:10 PM
Is this guy looking to sell us for parts?
Cash in on the parachute payments and see us dredged out in League One in a few years?

I only ask, because why would anyone come in and spend 150 million to buy a team and then do nothing with it?
The difference in what Aston Villa sold for and what we sold for is massive and that is mainly because of the league were are in. Peace sells up, doesn't get his hands dirty and passes to a foreigner to just come in and sell the pieces.

Now I know it is not going to happen, and I am saying it just a bit as a stir... But financially I suspect it is likely it makes sense.

With the TV funds running through this year + parachute payments and say 80 - 100 million or so worth of players that could be sold.

(23 for Berahino, 25 for Rondon and 18 for Evans alone)

Then I suspect that whilst very very improbable, it surely cannot be 100% impossible (only 99.999%) .

Anyway it isn't going to happen, I just showing a bit of frustration at us not signing anyone at all  :P

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 18, 2016, 04:53:13 PM
Is this guy looking to sell us for parts?
Cash in on the parachute payments and see us dredged out in League One in a few years?

I only ask, because why would anyone come in and spend 150 million to buy a team and then do nothing with it?
The difference in what Aston Villa sold for and what we sold for is massive and that is mainly because of the league were are in. Peace sells up, doesn't get his hands dirty and passes to a foreigner to just come in and sell the pieces.

Now I know it is not going to happen, and I am saying it just a bit as a stir... But financially I suspect it is likely it makes sense.

With the TV funds running through this year + parachute payments and say 80 - 100 million or so worth of players that could be sold.

(23 for Berahino, 25 for Rondon and 18 for Evans alone)

Then I suspect that whilst very very improbable, it surely cannot be 100% impossible (only 99.999%) .

Anyway it isn't going to happen, I just showing a bit of frustration at us not signing anyone at all  :P
It's not that daft an idea, if I had the money, right now is a great time to but a club like ours , he's paid 150m ish, he sells Berra ,Evans,Rondon for around 45m spends 15-20 on replacements and loans and pockets the to money giving tone 4m if he keeps us up , if he does he pockets more to money if not he sells at 95m
Don't think this is what will happen but you never know?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 18, 2016, 06:21:24 PM
Surely JP wouldnt have sold to an asset stripper
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on August 18, 2016, 06:25:53 PM
If anyone is listening to the WM phone In you'd think we had been relegated already. Villa and wolves according to the presenter have done a wonderful job getting players in and telling the world how big they are going to be. So much negativity around about our takeover on this station. I admit I'll be worried if we don't get three or four in by the end of August but has anyone been listening to the phone in? It's like they are trying to cause trouble and wind fans up
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on August 18, 2016, 06:48:44 PM
If anyone is listening to the WM phone In you'd think we had been relegated already. Villa and wolves according to the presenter have done a wonderful job getting players in and telling the world how big they are going to be. So much negativity around about our takeover on this station. I admit I'll be worried if we don't get three or four in by the end of August but has anyone been listening to the phone in? It's like they are trying to cause trouble and wind fans up
They do try and wind fans up. They like to create controversy. The presenters have been banging on about Pulis leaving if he didn't get what he wanted from Peace all last season and he has continued with that line this season. Also WM keep going on about that the  new owners are not telling us what their vision is for the club. I thought the new owner had made it clear in his statement on the WBA website that it was business as usual and with steady progress aiming for the top half of the premier league. But they don't like this. They want the club to shout their mouth off and then to shoot them down when they don't deliver.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on August 18, 2016, 06:50:44 PM
Surely JP wouldnt have sold to an asset stripper

Depends if the asset stripper was the highest bidder or not...!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2016, 06:55:08 PM
Is this guy looking to sell us for parts?
Cash in on the parachute payments and see us dredged out in League One in a few years?

I only ask, because why would anyone come in and spend 150 million to buy a team and then do nothing with it?
The difference in what Aston Villa sold for and what we sold for is massive and that is mainly because of the league were are in. Peace sells up, doesn't get his hands dirty and passes to a foreigner to just come in and sell the pieces.

Now I know it is not going to happen, and I am saying it just a bit as a stir... But financially I suspect it is likely it makes sense.

With the TV funds running through this year + parachute payments and say 80 - 100 million or so worth of players that could be sold.

(23 for Berahino, 25 for Rondon and 18 for Evans alone)

Then I suspect that whilst very very improbable, it surely cannot be 100% impossible (only 99.999%) .

Anyway it isn't going to happen, I just showing a bit of frustration at us not signing anyone at all  :P

The takeover hasn't yet been cleared by the relevant authorities.  That's why everything is dragging
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on August 18, 2016, 07:01:26 PM

Utter tripe

The takeover hasn't yet been cleared by the relevant authorities.  That's why everything is dragging

That is not why things are dragging with transfers if that was the case then we would not sign anyone at all this windows as chances are things will not be finalized in the next two weeks.

Also.. I stated it was NOT going to happen, I made that pretty clear.... Well I would have thought to most it would be.

As for utter tripe.. yes.. it is made up.. I say that from the beginning, but.. it is also true the sum of our parts sold would almost certainly turn a profit on the 150 million.. So that aspect isn't tripe at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 18, 2016, 07:02:31 PM
The takeover hasn't yet been cleared by the relevant authorities.  That's why everything is dragging


could cost us big time
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 18, 2016, 07:09:44 PM
If anyone is listening to the WM phone In you'd think we had been relegated already. Villa and wolves according to the presenter have done a wonderful job getting players in and telling the world how big they are going to be. So much negativity around about our takeover on this station. I admit I'll be worried if we don't get three or four in by the end of August but has anyone been listening to the phone in? It's like they are trying to cause trouble and wind fans up
Don't waste your time listening to them. They're just wind-up merchants these days, feeling that they need to take a lead from the abysmal Talk Sport.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on August 18, 2016, 07:16:12 PM
They do try and wind fans up. They like to create controversy. The presenters have been banging on about Pulis leaving if he didn't get what he wanted from Peace all last season and he has continued with that line this season. Also WM keep going on about that the  new owners are not telling us what their vision is for the club. I thought the new owner had made it clear in his statement on the WBA website that it was business as usual and with steady progress aiming for the top half of the premier league. But they don't like this. They want the club to shout their mouth off and then to shoot them down when they don't deliver.


I agree, but it seems far worse lately. I cannot believe they were trying to compare us to blues even with players brought in. It seems today's presented Mark Regan really wanted to wind Albion fans up with suggestions of certain relegation if we don't get anyone in etc. I listen to it quiet often and apart from the usual people like eddy and van there seems fewer Albion fans calling in
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2016, 07:20:14 PM
That is not why things are dragging with transfers if that was the case then we would not sign anyone at all this windows as chances are things will not be finalized in the next two weeks.

Also.. I stated it was NOT going to happen, I made that pretty clear.... Well I would have thought to most it would be.

As for utter tripe.. yes.. it is made up.. I say that from the beginning, but.. it is also true the sum of our parts sold would almost certainly turn a profit on the 150 million.. So that aspect isn't tripe at all.

Our transfer policy right at this moment seems to be that we can only buy once we have sold, and vice versa.  Meanwhile, we are looking at higher cost players in anticipation/hope that the deal will be cleared in time.  There will come a time (I would say probably Monday) where we have to assume that it won't get cleared in time, which means trying to offload McMananan and Lambert ASAP to add to the Chester money, so that we can buy Dunk and get in Borthwick-Jackson on loan, trying to match a sale of Berahino with the purchase of the Algerian lad, and then scrambling around to find an attacking midfielder and a cheap extra striker (Walters probably).

Obviously the game will change if the takeover clearance comes through quickly.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: spencer Baggie on August 18, 2016, 07:20:45 PM
The deal being finalised is a mere formality.

JP would not have announced if he felt there was any possibility of it not going through. Shareholders complaining is a side show not worthy of any attention.

As such, the takeover is not hindering transfers atm (maybe earlier in summer, but not now)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on August 18, 2016, 07:24:24 PM
Our transfer policy right at this moment seems to be that we can only buy once we have sold, and vice versa. 

I don't agree with that and i haven't seen anything coming out of the club suggesting that. The club's projections for this year would be including money from the TV deals. The club seem to have had bids of 21 million pounts (Slimani) and 12 million pound (Schlupp) rejected. So I don't know the official policy, but I can't see how one draws the conclusion we are only able to buy once we sell.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: petethebaggie on August 18, 2016, 07:24:36 PM


I agree, but it seems far worse lately. I cannot believe they were trying to compare us to blues even with players brought in. It seems today's presented Mark Regan really wanted to wind Albion fans up with suggestions of certain relegation if we don't get anyone in etc. I listen to it quiet often and apart from the usual people like eddy and van there seems fewer Albion fans calling in
They have always been Villa biased in my opinion and now they are Jealous and Villa biased. Mark Regan would not shed too many tears if Albion were relegated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2016, 07:25:55 PM
I don't agree with that and i haven't seen anything coming out of the club suggesting that. The club's projections for this year would be including money from the TV deals. The club seem to have had bids of 21 million pounts (Slimani) and 12 million pound (Schlupp) rejected. So I don't know the official policy, but I can't see how one draws the conclusion we are only able to buy once we sell.

Simple - we don't have the cash flow until the deal is approved
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 18, 2016, 07:36:54 PM
They have always been Villa biased in my opinion and now they are Jealous and Villa biased. Mark Regan would not shed too many tears if Albion were relegated.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Regan is an Albion fan !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on August 18, 2016, 07:53:00 PM
Simple - we don't have the cash flow until the deal is approved

I say this with all due respect, but I cannot see anything at all to back up that statement.
We might be negotiating hard and losing deals, but we are putting bids in and most payments are done in installments anyway.

But again, surely it i just pure speculation to say there is no money until the deal is done and not only that it would be extremely reckless of the club if that was true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 18, 2016, 09:37:38 PM
The new owner has got his feet under the table and has brought in football people to look after business regarding football matters. My concern is how much influence jp has with owner when it comes to football transfers as we know what a tight wad he is
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2016, 09:49:41 PM
I say this with all due respect, but I cannot see anything at all to back up that statement.
We might be negotiating hard and losing deals, but we are putting bids in and most payments are done in installments anyway.

But again, surely it i just pure speculation to say there is no money until the deal is done and not only that it would be extremely reckless of the club if that was true.

Why would the new owner put in cash until the deal is approved?

Why would the existing owner (who doesn't have any cash until the deal completes) put any money in?

Yes, deals are done in installments, but usually with 50% upfront.  We are in limbo until the deal completes.

Maybe there is more doubt that the owners will be approved than we realise.  There are several investors who we know zilch about. 




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 18, 2016, 10:05:16 PM
Why would the new owner put in cash until the deal is approved?

Why would the existing owner (who doesn't have any cash until the deal completes) put any money in?

Yes, deals are done in installments, but usually with 50% upfront.  We are in limbo until the deal completes.

Maybe there is more doubt that the owners will be approved than we realise.  There are several investors who we know zilch about.

No money has been taken out of the club. All the Premier League money is there, Peace cannot withhold the transfer funds as he has 'sold' them to the Chinese, it's not hard.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 18, 2016, 10:21:18 PM
Surely the new owners would still put money into the club though, as its guaranteed to go through. I think too much has been said, revealed and spoken about for it to not go through.
Can't see him buying scarfs and drinks for everyone to celebrate, us to get new chairman in, to have new owners visit and be shown around and to be at first match.. If it had a chance that it wouldn't go through still.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Zebidee on August 18, 2016, 10:24:51 PM
.... Can't imagine it failing to go through.
Sorry about the celebration drinks n scarfs but we are not buying you now, sorry williams has got to leave and JP come back as it hasn't gone through, all the stories written in program and said on tv mean nothing as we not going to buy you now.

Nah, just can't see it failing, it has gone too far
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2016, 10:28:49 PM
No money has been taken out of the club. All the Premier League money is there, Peace cannot withhold the transfer funds as he has 'sold' them to the Chinese, it's not hard.

How much cash was the club holding at the end of last season?  How much was paid out as dividends to JP immediately prior to the takeover deal?

The Premier League money is paid in installments.

Peace has "sold" nothing until the deal goes unconditional.  That stage has not yet been reached.  We are still in limbo.

You are right - it's not hard.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on August 18, 2016, 10:31:30 PM
Like Jacko said the money still belongs to the club regardless of ownership. There should be ample to spend with last years profit plus TV money. We've also cut 2 big earner off the wage bill.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 18, 2016, 10:38:03 PM
How much cash was the club holding at the end of last season?  How much was paid out as dividends to JP immediately prior to the takeover deal?

The Premier League money is paid in installments.

Peace has "sold" nothing until the deal goes unconditional.  That stage has not yet been reached.  We are still in limbo.

You are right - it's not hard.

Yet you don't seem to get it, the deal has been agreed. Peace has sold his 88 percent share in the club and all it's assets to Lai and his consortium. He cannot take anything out of the club or hold anything back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2016, 10:41:28 PM
Like Jacko said the money still belongs to the club regardless of ownership. There should be ample to spend with last years profit plus TV money. We've also cut 2 big earner off the wage bill.

You clearly aren't getting it.

At the end of the financial year, the company can distribute its accumulated profits to its shareholders.  An outgoing shareholder will invariably take pre-sale dividends, thereby removing cash from the company.

Only a proportion of the TV money for this season has been received at this stage.  Hardly enough to go on a huge spending spree.  The club can hardly go out and agree a new overdraft facility until the new ownership is confirmed.

Cutting two big earners off the wage bill won't have had any material impact yet. They would have been earning salaries up to 30th June when their contracts officially expired.

Sorry but there is every reason for our cash flow to be under severe pressure until the new owners are officially approved and the deal can actually complete.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2016, 10:45:04 PM
Yet you don't seem to get it, the deal has been agreed. Peace has sold his 88 percent share in the club and all it's assets to Lai and his consortium. He cannot take anything out of the club or hold anything back.

Jesus this is like pulling teeth.

The deal has been agreed but it has NOT yet gone unconditional.  It is not yet complete.  Peace COULD take accumulated profits as dividends right up to the date when the sale was agreed.  Those accumulated profits belong to the pre-sale shareholders.   

It isn't a question of him holding anything back.  What makes you think there was anything left to hold back in terms of liquid cash? 

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 18, 2016, 11:33:59 PM
Jesus this is like pulling teeth.

The deal has been agreed but it has NOT yet gone unconditional.  It is not yet complete.  Peace COULD take accumulated profits as dividends right up to the date when the sale was agreed.  Those accumulated profits belong to the pre-sale shareholders.   

It isn't a question of him holding anything back.  What makes you think there was anything left to hold back in terms of liquid cash?

Astonishing. FYI the end of the financial year was in April... The club has been sold (or if you prefer a deal has been agreed in principle) as a going concern, we are not strapped for cash. FFS.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 19, 2016, 12:08:06 AM
Astonishing. FYI the end of the financial year was in April... The club has been sold (or if you prefer a deal has been agreed in principle) as a going concern, we are not strapped for cash. FFS.

It doesn't matter that the year end was in April - a pre-completion dividend is still very likely to have been paid - pre-deal profits belonged to the pre-deal shareholders.  That is a bog standard corporate takeover action.

You are missing the point entirely.  Nothing you have posted means that there is any spare cash currently available to buy players, and it would be perfectly logical for neither the outgoing owner not the yet-to-be approved new owner to be currently injecting £40m to £50m of cash until the new owners are approved.

Really not sure how you are finding that so difficult to comprehend.

The club at this moment in time is in limbo.  The 12% shareholders may well have succeeded in delaying the takeover being approved whilst their complaints are being investigated.

Our actions during the transfer window to date are entirely consistent with this scenario.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 19, 2016, 12:16:32 AM
It doesn't matter that the year end was in April - a pre-completion dividend is still very likely to have been paid - pre-deal profits belonged to the pre-deal shareholders.  That is a bog standard corporate takeover action.

You are missing the point entirely.  Nothing you have posted means that there is any spare cash currently available to buy players, and it would be perfectly logical for neither the outgoing owner not the yet-to-be approved new owner to be currently injecting £40m to £50m of cash until the new owners are approved.

Really not sure how you are finding that so difficult to comprehend.

The club at this moment in time is in limbo.  The 12% shareholders may well have succeeded in delaying the takeover being approved whilst their complaints are being investigated.

Our actions during the transfer window to date are entirely consistent with this scenario.

Am I to assume you think we've stopped paying the player's wages? We agreed a £16 million fee two weeks ago and have offered Leicester over £10 million for Schlupp, I don't know what you find hard to comprehend, no one needs to 'inject' anything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 19, 2016, 12:34:28 AM
Am I to assume you think we've stopped paying the player's wages? We agreed a £16 million fee two weeks ago and have offered Leicester over £10 million for Schlupp, I don't know what you find hard to comprehend, no one needs to 'inject' anything.

No, you are not to assume any such thing.  Did I suggest that?  No I did not.  I was referring to the injection of EXTRA cash to help fund a spending spree.  Please do keep up with the programme.

You know as well as I do that a £16m outlay on Sakho would have triggered an immediate sale of Berahino.  You also know that we have already sold Chester - that's what would have funded Schlupp, but the price kept going up, and we then slowed down. That money from Chester is obviously still available.

What I said was that we are currently restricted to buying players on a matched basis with players being sold.  Everything that is (not) going on supports that. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 19, 2016, 12:48:01 AM
No, you are not to assume any such thing.  Did I suggest that?  No I did not.  I was referring to the injection of EXTRA cash to help fund a spending spree.  Please do keep up with the programme.

You know as well as I do that a £16m outlay on Sakho would have triggered an immediate sale of Berahino.  You also know that we have already sold Chester - that's what would have funded Schlupp, but the price kept going up, and we then slowed down. That money from Chester is obviously still available.

What I said was that we are currently restricted to buying players on a matched basis with players being sold.  Everything that is (not) going on supports that.

We aren't, money is clearly available. The club doesn't have to spend profit it can spend turnover, which in turn affects profit. We got about £6 million for Chester. Not enough to fund the Schlupp offer....

Moreover in your example, how could we pay West Ham before we'd sold Berahino, it would have to be the other way round...?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 19, 2016, 01:08:37 AM
We aren't, money is clearly available. The club doesn't have to spend profit it can spend turnover, which in turn affects profit. We got about £6 million for Chester. Not enough to fund the Schlupp offer....

Moreover in your example, how could we pay West Ham before we'd sold Berahino, it would have to be the other way round...?

In what way is money CLEARLY available?   Nothing clear about it at present.

Chester was apparently £6m plus add-ons.  The Schlupp offer was apparently £8m plus add-ons. Not a big difference.

You are splitting hairs.  A day or two in terms of timing is neither here nor there.  We could have committed to pay Sakho for £16m, knowing that we could cover it by selling Berahino straight away for at least that amount.

I rest my case. 



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 19, 2016, 01:34:51 AM
Will the new owner get a good reception at the ground on Saturday? And does anyone know the Chinese for any chance of spending some money in transfer market, could get chant going
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on August 19, 2016, 03:20:23 AM
In what way is money CLEARLY available?   Nothing clear about it at present.

Chester was apparently £6m plus add-ons.  The Schlupp offer was apparently £8m plus add-ons. Not a big difference.

You are splitting hairs.  A day or two in terms of timing is neither here nor there.  We could have committed to pay Sakho for £16m, knowing that we could cover it by selling Berahino straight away for at least that amount.

I rest my case.

How is this discussing still at this point?

Businesses (and yes we are one) are sold all the time, money does not just disappear. We would have considerable funds in the bank as well as a solid line of credit. There is nothing at all but pure speculation being passed as fact that we have to wait before we can spend. If our cash flow was that desperate we would be struggling to match our 5 million pounds a month wage bill.

The evidence on show (the bids for Slimani, Schlupp and Sakho) does not suggest we are waiting to sell. It suggests we are bidding, but not completing deals.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 19, 2016, 07:11:45 AM
How is this discussing still at this point?

Businesses (and yes we are one) are sold all the time, money does not just disappear. We would have considerable funds in the bank as well as a solid line of credit. There is nothing at all but pure speculation being passed as fact that we have to wait before we can spend. If our cash flow was that desperate we would be struggling to match our 5 million pounds a month wage bill.

The evidence on show (the bids for Slimani, Schlupp and Sakho) does not suggest we are waiting to sell. It suggests we are bidding, but not completing deals.

Has it occurred to you that our cash flow for salaries is well covered by our existing budget but that cash flow for additional signings isn't actually there yet?  Suddenly finding an extra £20m to £30m for signing 5 new players without player sales is not straightforward if neither the incoming owner or the outgoing owner are in a position to cover it. 


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 19, 2016, 08:24:06 AM
Has it occurred to you that our cash flow for salaries is well covered by our existing budget but that cash flow for additional signings isn't actually there yet?  Suddenly finding an extra £20m to £30m for signing 5 new players without player sales is not straightforward if neither the incoming owner or the outgoing owner are in a position to cover it.

Not wishing to interject on a lovers quarrel, but do you seriously think that JP would not have forseen the scenario you describe?

Time after time JP has declared his wish for the change in ownership to be in the absolute best interests of the football club, it looks as though he has delivered that.

It's a scientific & geographical fact that the higher you go, the more rarefied the atmosphere becomes. In the same way, the options for quality of player we are after now, becomes less, which in turn makes negotiations that more difficult. IMO it's that which is causing the delay, rather than any financial anomoly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 19, 2016, 08:31:48 AM
Not wishing to interject on a lovers quarrel, but do you seriously think that JP would not have forseen the scenario you describe?

Time after time JP has declared his wish for the change in ownership to be in the absolute best interests of the football club, it looks as though he has delivered that.

It's a scientific & geographical fact that the higher you go, the more rarefied the atmosphere becomes. In the same way, the options for quality of player we are after now, becomes less, which in turn makes negotiations that more difficult. IMO it's that which is causing the delay, rather than any financial anomoly.

I respect your opinion.  You may well be right.  I'm sticking with my opinion though.  I don't think anybody anticipated the current regulatory delay. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 19, 2016, 10:45:20 AM
Still hoping Mr Lai will greet the fans tomorrow with a marquee signing at his side.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 19, 2016, 10:48:17 AM
Still hoping Mr Lai will greet the fans tomorrow with a marquee signing at his side.

Great, I can see it now.

We need new players and he walks out with a fkn tent in his hand  :)  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 19, 2016, 10:59:51 AM
Great, I can see it now.

We need new players and he walks out with a fkn tent in his hand  :)  ;) .

Spilling was never my finest subject :o
by the way you aren't Mr smith from Churchfield's comprehensive me old English teacher are you.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mrvulgarity on August 19, 2016, 11:14:18 AM
Great, I can see it now.

We need new players and he walks out with a fkn tent in his hand  :)  ;) .

New signing for the fanzone?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 19, 2016, 11:15:54 AM
Still hoping Mr Lai will greet the fans tomorrow with a marquee signing at his side.
A pint of Carling in his hand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 19, 2016, 11:17:35 AM
whats the weather for tomorrow, is it going to rain on his parade
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 19, 2016, 11:20:44 AM
whats the weather for tomorrow, is it going to rain on his parade
Windy and wet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 19, 2016, 11:31:32 AM
Windy and wet.

That marquee will come in handy then...... ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 19, 2016, 11:42:48 AM
That marquee will come in handy then...... ;D

...... when he 'pitches' up......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 19, 2016, 01:06:44 PM
...... when he 'pitches' up......

I'm glad to have brightened up your dad & skyclad99 to.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 19, 2016, 01:08:53 PM
Great, I can see it now.

We need new players and he walks out with a fkn tent in his hand  :)  ;) .


Fantastic, can we have a spelling correction thread, been waiting for this for ages "Baggiejohn" O level English Language  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 19, 2016, 01:44:33 PM
I'm glad to have brightened up your dad & skyclad99 to.

Thank you very much Geoff and please accept my apologies for any upset caused  :) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kendover on August 19, 2016, 01:56:22 PM
Assume that until authorised by FA etc the club is still owned and run by Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 19, 2016, 02:17:20 PM
Has it occurred to you that our cash flow for salaries is well covered by our existing budget but that cash flow for additional signings isn't actually there yet?  Suddenly finding an extra £20m to £30m for signing 5 new players without player sales is not straightforward if neither the incoming owner or the outgoing owner are in a position to cover it.
Pulis's comments today suggest that your interpretation is incorrect: "The situation with the takeover is the chairman is still the major shareholder but it’s just a matter of time until it’s completed. The Chinese are over for tomorrow’s game and as far as I’m concerned it’s absolutely full steam ahead."

When he was asked if that wait for approval was stalling any transfer business, Pulis said: "No, not at all. We’re working hard behind the scenes and hoping to bring in the players we want. It takes a bit of time but we’’ll do our business very quietly and try and do signings without anyone knowing. It takes time, we’ve got another 10 days, plenty of time."

Source: Express & Star (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/08/19/confident-tony-pulis-says-takeover-approval-not-holding-up-signings/)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 19, 2016, 02:19:16 PM
Thank you very much Geoff and please accept my apologies for any upset caused  :) .

Likewise Geoff, spelling is not my strongest point either. I knew what you meant but SmethDan just cracked me up....its just the image it conjured up.

No offence intended and thank you for making me laugh.........there aren't too many of those on this site at the moment
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 19, 2016, 02:27:29 PM
Likewise Geoff, spelling is not my strongest point either. I knew what you meant but SmethDan just cracked me up....its just the image it conjured up.
I'm not sure why people have picked Geoff up for it, as his use of "marquee signing" was correct both in terms of meaning and spelling!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 19, 2016, 02:40:59 PM
I'm not sure why people have picked Geoff up for it, as his use of "marquee signing" was correct both in terms of meaning and spelling!

 ;D You must have cheated or was it was it just luck has Mr Smith would have said & 10 out of 10

And lads no prob.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 19, 2016, 03:32:05 PM
I'm not sure why people have picked Geoff up for it, as his use of "marquee signing" was correct both in terms of meaning and spelling!

Pretty sure it was to lighten the mood...  The first suggestion of misspelling came from Geoff himself.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 19, 2016, 03:34:44 PM
I'm not sure why people have picked Geoff up for it, as his use of "marquee signing" was correct both in terms of meaning and spelling!

The visualisation of our new owner proudly stepping onto the pitch to show us his new tent was a play on words  :) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on August 19, 2016, 06:26:48 PM
They do try and wind fans up. They like to create controversy. The presenters have been banging on about Pulis leaving if he didn't get what he wanted from Peace all last season and he has continued with that line this season. Also WM keep going on about that the  new owners are not telling us what their vision is for the club. I thought the new owner had made it clear in his statement on the WBA website that it was business as usual and with steady progress aiming for the top half of the premier league. But they don't like this. They want the club to shout their mouth off and then to shoot them down when they don't deliver.
I thought Van was spot on tonight on WM. What is it with Mark Regan he is so anti Albion. He tries to wind up anti club sentiment and disquiet with the fans. He says the new management are boring. What he wants is controversy. He wants the club to shout their mouth off and then to shoot them down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on August 19, 2016, 06:32:30 PM
I thought Van was spot on tonight on WM. What is it with Mark Regan he is so anti Albion. He tries to wind up anti club sentiment and disquiet with the fans. He says the new management are boring. What he wants is controversy. He wants the club to shout their mouth off and then to shoot them down.


Spot on, their coverage at the moment towards Albion has been frankly an embarassment. They are trying to wind the fans up big time. The caller I felt tried to explain the slupp deal and Reagan werebt having any off it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 19, 2016, 10:53:22 PM
Spot on, their coverage at the moment towards Albion has been frankly an embarassment. They are trying to wind the fans up big time. The caller I felt tried to explain the slupp deal and Reagan werebt having any off it
They're trolls, don't feed them - stop listening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 20, 2016, 08:07:38 AM
They're trolls, don't feed them - stop listening.

I did, a very long time ago. The only local media guy I follow now, is Matt Wilson of the E & S, his articles seem pretty balanced, as you say all the rest are just trolling.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 20, 2016, 09:34:55 AM

Spot on, their coverage at the moment towards Albion has been frankly an embarassment. They are trying to wind the fans up big time. The caller I felt tried to explain the slupp deal and Reagan werebt having any off it

Talksport do this constantly. Will say something completely ridiculous to poke and prod listeners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 20, 2016, 10:24:33 AM
Our new chairman has a few words for the fans, main points being that the famous old stadium got a new lick of paint so don't mention stadium expansion for the foreseeable future.
Getting in new players has been hard but we are not going to pay the going rate for said players.
Selling players is quite easy as other clubs are willing to match our valuation(see you johnny).
Be thankful to your new owners who have bought you a beer and a scarf as that's all the money there willing to spend at the minute.
So jump up and down every time you see a China man as he could be an investor.
Coyciamlomwloata that means com on you Chinese investors and make loads of money with little outlay at the Albion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 20, 2016, 02:51:59 PM
I haven't seen the programme myself, but Matt Wilson of the E & S says that Peace has written in it saying that transfer of ownership should complete in October and will take on a consultancy role after that. One wonders exactly what his role is at present, given that Williams is on board?

Source: Express & Star (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/08/20/albion-v-everton-live/)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 20, 2016, 02:59:02 PM
In what way is money CLEARLY available?   Nothing clear about it at present.

Chester was apparently £6m plus add-ons.  The Schlupp offer was apparently £8m plus add-ons. Not a big difference.

You are splitting hairs.  A day or two in terms of timing is neither here nor there.  We could have committed to pay Sakho for £16m, knowing that we could cover it by selling Berahino straight away for at least that amount.

I rest my case.


Looks like I wasn't far wrong


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on August 20, 2016, 04:50:01 PM
Wonder what he is thinking on today's performance so far?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 20, 2016, 05:07:07 PM
Wonder what he is thinking on today's performance so far?
get me the Peking duck out of here
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie_liam on August 20, 2016, 06:06:33 PM
Atleast he'll realise how much money it's going to cost him to dig us out of a hole! This squad can't go another season!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 20, 2016, 06:31:58 PM

Looks like I wasn't far wrong

In what way?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 20, 2016, 06:34:22 PM
In what way?

In no way whatsoever  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 20, 2016, 06:38:37 PM
In no way whatsoever  ;D

In the way that we are only going to be buying players if we manage to sell players, in case the deal doesn't go through. 

Something very fishy is going on.  Deal apparently agreed in June, yet won't be approved until October.  No other sales of clubs to foreign owners are taking 4 months.  It doesn't stack up.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 20, 2016, 06:46:54 PM
In the way that we are only going to be buying players if we manage to sell players, in case the deal doesn't go through. 

Something very fishy is going on.  Deal apparently agreed in June, yet won't be approved until October.  No other sales of clubs to foreign owners are taking 4 months.  It doesn't stack up.

Yes we are intentionally hamstringing ourselves Mulder...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 20, 2016, 06:50:56 PM
In the way that we are only going to be buying players if we manage to sell players, in case the deal doesn't go through. 

Something very fishy is going on.  Deal apparently agreed in June, yet won't be approved until October.  No other sales of clubs to foreign owners are taking 4 months.  It doesn't stack up.

I'll say it again.

All this starting the season with such a poor threadbare squad and now Pulis talking as though ' he's hoping he'll be given money' is just irresponsible by both the outgoing and the incoming owners.

Only us could have this kind of mess and little to look forward to when, for most clubs , at least the fans get some positives from a new era and dare to dream.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on August 20, 2016, 07:06:39 PM
Is there a chance Lai could say "y'know what I think I have made a mistake, think I'll leave it"?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 20, 2016, 07:24:45 PM
Yes we are intentionally hamstringing ourselves Mulder...

I never said it was intentional.  But it's the reality. We are in limbo and spending will as a result be very limited.  Peace and Lai cannot risk spending big in case approval isn't forthcoming. 

Sorry that you seem to be struggling to grasp what is so obvious. 

The only way that I can see us buying 5 players is if we sell Evans.  Otherwise it will quite possibly be only 3 in, with Berahino being sold.

Anyway, we'll find out in 11 days time. 

I genuinely hope you are right and I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 20, 2016, 07:28:12 PM
In the way that we are only going to be buying players if we manage to sell players, in case the deal doesn't go through. 

Something very fishy is going on.  Deal apparently agreed in June, yet won't be approved until October.  No other sales of clubs to foreign owners are taking 4 months.  It doesn't stack up.

Just a  negotiating tactic perhaps, suppose the beginning of October is a worst case scenario that is designed to reduce  any selling clubs expectations of the Baggies ability to pay higher transfer fees ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 20, 2016, 07:46:10 PM
Just a  negotiating tactic perhaps, suppose the beginning of October is a worst case scenario that is designed to reduce  any selling clubs expectations of the Baggies ability to pay higher transfer fees ;)

May well be correct
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 20, 2016, 07:48:10 PM
I never said it was intentional.  But it's the reality. We are in limbo and spending will as a result be very limited.  Peace and Lai cannot risk spending big in case approval isn't forthcoming. 

Sorry that you seem to be struggling to grasp what is so obvious. 

The only way that I can see us buying 5 players is if we sell Evans.  Otherwise it will quite possibly be only 3 in, with Berahino being sold.

Anyway, we'll find out in 11 days time. 

I genuinely hope you are right and I'm wrong.

Why couldn't Lai buy say £100 million of equity in WBA, which together with the £200 million of existing equity would make the club worth £300 million?

In any event, Lai is buying WBA as a going concern, so this window would have been budgeted for anyway, & if me and you can guess that player values would increase with the new TV money, you can bet your bottom dollar, that people who are payed a lot of money to know would. AND would have made contingency plans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 20, 2016, 09:09:36 PM
You're posts never cease to amaze me. Any facts to share?
one glaring fact no new signings on the horizon
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 20, 2016, 09:22:05 PM
Why couldn't Lai buy say £100 million of equity in WBA, which together with the £200 million of existing equity would make the club worth £300 million?

In any event, Lai is buying WBA as a going concern, so this window would have been budgeted for anyway, & if me and you can guess that player values would increase with the new TV money, you can bet your bottom dollar, that people who are payed a lot of money to know would. AND would have made contingency plans.

What the club is worth is irrelevant. It's available cash which is the key.  Lai is paying close to £200m to buy the equity - why would he pay an extra £100m?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 20, 2016, 11:58:18 PM
What the club is worth is irrelevant. It's available cash which is the key.  Lai is paying close to £200m to buy the equity - why would he pay an extra £100m?

Wouldn't that give the his club an extra £100 million of cash? to spend on players - which is what fans want?

Cash shortage aint the problem, availability of players is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on August 21, 2016, 12:08:36 AM
Going off what Williams has said, the club do find themselves in a tricky place.

Dunk off Brighton, good player, definitely worth a look. But £12m?

Schlupp.... A reserve at another club, again he could add an element we need, but £12m...?

Benteke (I don't think we were actually interested btw), had a v good year with Villa, went to L'pool and bombed, £30m + a MASSIVE wage....

I don't disagree with the club not paying these fees, but it does beg the question who will we get in. I can only hope Europe is the answer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 21, 2016, 12:11:13 AM
Wouldn't that give the his club an extra £100 million of cash? to spend on players - which is what fans want?

Cash shortage aint the problem, availability of players is.

Shush John there is no mony to spend...  ;)

Going off what Williams has said, the club do find themselves in a tricky place.

Dunk off Brighton, good player, definitely worth a look. But £12m?

Schlupp.... A reserve at another club, again he could add an element we need, but £12m...?

Benteke (I don't think we were actually interested btw), had 2/3 v good year with Villa, went to L'pool and bombed, £30m + a MASSIVE wage....

I don't disagree with the club not paying these fees, but it does beg the question who will we get in. I can only hope Europe is the answer.

Fixed mate...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on August 21, 2016, 08:57:07 AM
Pretty sure it was to lighten the mood...  The first suggestion of misspelling came from Geoff himself.

Or perhaps we are actually signing Mark E' from Stevanage...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_E%27Beyer
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 21, 2016, 09:40:15 AM
Well the way i look at it is we either want these players or we don't. If we do and we think they are good enough go for them, if not or we think they are overpriced move on to another target.
We have been linked with Schlupp for over a month now, Leicester don't want to sell, we think he's overpriced, why do we keep wasting time with it? Is he our only target,haven't we identified anymore since May?

What i think and from what others have said, is that the takeover isn't officially ratified until October, after the window is closed. So the targets are the ones we would have gone for if the takeover hadn't gone through.
It would also explain Pulis's job being safe and Mr Lai's comment about this season being just about staying up.
Changes will come in January, i just hope we aren't in the bottom 3 by then.
Typical Albion so slow in getting deals across the line when both Vile and Dingles have been taken over and are up and running.
Fingers crossed guy's, this is going to be a long season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 21, 2016, 10:10:03 AM
Wouldn't that give the his club an extra £100 million of cash? to spend on players - which is what fans want?

Cash shortage aint the problem, availability of players is.

Depends on the intention of Lai & Co when buying the club.  They may have been intending to buy it for £150m and inject an extra £50m to buy new players, but JP forced them up to nearly £200m to buy the shares.

It doesn't look likely that the new owners will inject anything until the deal is approved, and JP doesn't have cash available.

Nothing I have seen or heard changes my view - there is only going to be substantial cash to spend if we sell players in this window. Otherwise I'll be amazed if there is a net spend of more than £15m - is that one player or two?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 21, 2016, 10:17:00 AM
 i think the new owners need to bin JP. Having appointed a new chairman who obviously knows his way round a football club i fail t see the need. Having made awful footballing decisions over a period of time to leave him around and by the looks of it overseeing a continuation of our failed transfer policy of the last few years is  nonsensical. Should the worst happen and we fail to escape the trapdoor the blame should be laid firmly at Jp´s door and not the new owners  i just hope come next May people remember this  >:( :( >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on August 21, 2016, 10:25:40 AM
Peace should shoulder most the blame. He ran the squad with minimum investment into the ground spending the bare minimum on basement bucket signings who continually failed.
Pulis aswel spent £15 million on Chester,lambert and mcmanaman where was the due diligence then?
Prices are inflated and pulis is reluctant to buy from abroad, or is it more he his reluctant to buy flair players because he can't coach them?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 21, 2016, 10:42:44 AM
i think the new owners need to bin JP. Having appointed a new chairman who obviously knows his way round a football club i fail t see the need. Having made awful footballing decisions over a period of time to leave him around and by the looks of it overseeing a continuation of our failed transfer policy of the last few years is  nonsensical. Should the worst happen and we fail to escape the trapdoor the blame should be laid firmly at Jp´s door and not the new owners  i just hope come next May people remember this  >:( :( >:(

Got to admit that during the excitement of the takeover the news that JP was staying on to 'advise' put a bit of a dampener on it as it sounded a bit too much like 'business as usual'.
This club desperately needs an injection of fresh ideas and investment in the FIRST TEAM squad , needs a little AMBITION, needs to awake from this small time mentality and an almost thankful for doing the minimum attitude around the place.
Reading Williams' notes in the programme didn't really fill me with any more inspiration and sounded like he was happy to just limp along with the bare minimum like JP and take his excellent (no doubt) salary package. His quote
"In a restricted market, prices are high and we accept that. But some of the prices we are being quoted are quite frankly too high."
really does disturbed me as, yes, I'm sure all Chairman think that but they have to deal and compete in the Market that's shaped in front of time. Whatever he thinks we have to do business and show some ambition in that market otherwise we go backwards and the Club continues to stagnate.
The empty seats and same old same old home performance yesterday should really be a warning sign to the new owners - let's hope they can do something in the next week or so though, after being initially optimistic, I now really doubt we'll get much as business as usual for our Club continues.

The Palace result kick started the season well and bought a bit of transfer time. However, the poor creative quality and offensive play yesterday, after a bright first twenty minutes and the confidence of an early goal, soon illuminated the same old difficencies that haven't been addressed and we fell back into a very familiar turgid home performance relying upon a few lump ups, minimum possession and set pieces to try and get a goal. Why can't we ever press on and get a second, a third when we go one up at home ???


 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 21, 2016, 10:49:29 AM
i think the new owners need to bin JP. Having appointed a new chairman who obviously knows his way round a football club i fail t see the need. Having made awful footballing decisions over a period of time to leave him around and by the looks of it overseeing a continuation of our failed transfer policy of the last few years is  nonsensical. Should the worst happen and we fail to escape the trapdoor the blame should be laid firmly at Jp´s door and not the new owners  i just hope come next May people remember this  >:( :( >:(

JP has to stay on for the time being to protect his investment - the sale hasn't completed yet.  No prudent businessman would step down completely during an interim stage like this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 21, 2016, 10:51:49 AM
Got to admit that during the excitement of the takeover the news that JP was staying on to 'advise' put a bit of a dampener on it as it sounded a bit too much like 'business as usual'.
This club desperately needs an injection of fresh ideas and investment in the FIRST TEAM squad , needs a little AMBITION, needs to awake from this small time mentality and an almost thankful for doing the minimum attitude around the place.
Reading Williams' notes in the programme didn't really fill me with any more inspiration and sounded like he was happy to just limp along with the bare minimum like JP and take his excellent (no doubt) salary package. His quote
"In a restricted market, prices are high and we accept that. But some of the prices we are being quoted are quite frankly too high."
really does disturbed me as, yes, I'm sure all Chairman think that but they have to deal and compete in the Market that's shaped in front of time. Whatever he thinks we have to do business and show some ambition in that market otherwise we go backwards and the Club continues to stagnate.
The empty seats and same old same old home performance yesterday should really be a warning sign to the new owners - let's hope they can do something in the next week or so though, after being initially optimistic, I now really doubt we'll get much as business as usual for our Club continues.

The Palace result kick started the season well and bought a bit of transfer time. However, the poor creative quality and offensive play yesterday, after a bright first twenty minutes and the confidence of an early goal, soon illuminated the same old difficencies that haven't been addressed and we fell back into a very familiar turgid home performance relying upon a few lump ups, minimum possession and set pieces to try and get a goal. Why can't we ever press on and get a second, a third when we go one up at home ???

Can't help thinking that a defeat v Palace may have actually been more beneficial - "buying extra time" in the transfer market may have lowered the urgency !

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 21, 2016, 11:11:01 AM
Can't help thinking that a defeat v Palace may have actually been more beneficial - "buying extra time" in the transfer market may have lowered the urgency !

Fair comment but it was a very good performance (and great day out !) and we really needed to start positively this season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 21, 2016, 11:12:48 AM
JP has to stay on for the time being to protect his investment - the sale hasn't completed yet.  No prudent businessman would step down completely during an interim stage like this.

He's doing a superb job hampering the club's transfers at present - he's protecting his investment alright by the club spending a negative amount in the transfer market !!1   >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on August 21, 2016, 12:22:00 PM
He's doing a superb job hampering the club's transfers at present - he's protecting his investment alright by the club spending a negative amount in the transfer market !!1   >:(
All of which you can prove in a Court of Law? :-X
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 21, 2016, 12:54:32 PM
All of which you can prove in a Court of Law? :-X

I'm not in a Court of Law............just a fan who spends fortunes on the Club and cares about it more than Peace !!!!

Please don't try to be a clown !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on August 21, 2016, 01:56:18 PM
I'm not in a Court of Law............just a fan who spends fortunes on the Club and cares about it more than Peace !!!!

Please don't try to be a clown !
Hey, I'm not the one making libelous comments  ;)
You crack on.  :-X
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 21, 2016, 02:07:34 PM
Hey, I'm not the one making libelous comments  ;)
You crack on.  :-X

the club spending a negative amount in the transfer market

looks pretty factual as this moment !  If he's staying on at present then he's currently in charge of the mess surely ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 21, 2016, 03:10:33 PM
the club spending a negative amount in the transfer market

looks pretty factual as this moment !  If he's staying on at present then he's currently in charge of the mess surely ?
surely the chairman is in charge?..or the new owners?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on August 21, 2016, 05:46:55 PM
the club spending a negative amount in the transfer market

looks pretty factual as this moment !  If he's staying on at present then he's currently in charge of the mess surely ?

"He's doing a superb job hampering the club's transfers at present"  :P

He might be, he might have absolutely nothing to do with our lack of transfers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on August 21, 2016, 07:06:51 PM
I can't understand why someone would buy  club for millions and not spend further to protect the investment.
The transfer debacle is only damaging a poor reputation and alienating the fans.
 Being a hard negotiator is ok but it needs give and take and knowing when you have to pay a bit extra to get the best players you can, not just stropping off and ending up with panic buys  like Anichebe.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 21, 2016, 07:11:03 PM
I can't understand why someone would buy  club for millions and not spend further to protect the investment.
The transfer debacle is only damaging a poor reputation and alienating the fans.
 Being a hard negotiator is ok but it needs give and take and knowing when you have to pay a bit extra to get the best players you can, not just stropping off and ending up with panic buys  like Anichebe.

Because they haven't actually bought it yet!

They've agreed to buy the club but it is subject to approval.  The deal doesn't complete until it is approved.  Until then, Peace remains the owner.   

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on August 21, 2016, 10:07:59 PM
Because they haven't actually bought it yet!

They've agreed to buy the club but it is subject to approval.  The deal doesn't complete until it is approved.  Until then, Peace remains the owner.
So they just watch as their potential investment goes down the pan? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 21, 2016, 10:47:51 PM
So they just watch as their potential investment goes down the pan?

It's not theirs yet.  They can't lose any money if it hasn't cost them anything.  Whereas if they throw debt our way and fail to get clearance then it will either cost them money or leave us with debt.  Not prudent for either party.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBrainy on August 21, 2016, 10:48:50 PM
Should never have announced himself until deal was completed ... More disarray for us fans ... I am really struggling to believe we are going to spend a reasonable amount of money on new recruits , glad I didn't buy a season ticket for the first time in 17 years
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aixelsyd on August 21, 2016, 10:58:22 PM
Should never have announced himself until deal was completed ... More disarray for us fans ...

you can never win can you...

Fans complain when the Club says nothing...

and now they complain when they do...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 21, 2016, 11:06:32 PM
Going off what Williams has said, the club do find themselves in a tricky place.

Dunk off Brighton, good player, definitely worth a look. But £12m?

Schlupp.... A reserve at another club, again he could add an element we need, but £12m...?

Benteke (I don't think we were actually interested btw), had a v good year with Villa, went to L'pool and bombed, £30m + a MASSIVE wage....

I don't disagree with the club not paying these fees, but it does beg the question who will we get in. I can only hope Europe is the answer.

But, if they are the players the scouts and management believe in then you have to maybe even go over the going rate to get them in - it's sounds like we don't seem capable of understanding the 'new world' this summer regarding inflated values............either pay for what you really need or get cheap gambles in and hope and pray we don't go backwards - not a good footing for the new regime to start off with regarding instilling some belief in the fanbase.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 21, 2016, 11:28:27 PM
So they just watch as their potential investment goes down the pan?
JP will watch a big chunk of money go down the toilet if he doesn't freshen squad. He stated that takeover would not affect the players that we're required.if I was potential new owners and I'd seen the performance on the pitch yesterday then I'd be contacting peace who still owns club to invest on the team or I'd invest but the price would be renegotiated or pull plug on deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on August 22, 2016, 02:36:13 AM
Well if the new owner cant invest yet, then Mr Peace surely has to or risk the take over completely. In which case we'll be left in limbo with half a squad of over aged squad players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 22, 2016, 06:58:32 AM
It is quite straight forward. The new owners do not own the club until the deal has been ratified by the various bodies that need to do so. Everything at the moment is based on the current regimes budget and that was set by Peace and is probably written into the deal on the basis of a forward projection. The overall player budget wages and fees is fixed whether it is more fixed than usual because of the takeover I don't know but given Peace's track record I don't think it would make much difference.

Going forward people need to grasp the basic concept that generally owners do not subsidise Premier League Clubs (there are one or two exceptions to this rule) they do subsidise Championship clubs but only to the point that they gain promotion. Premier League clubs make money they do not require external funding to operate. The new owners will not lavish millions on transfers beyond what the club can sustain from it's own resources.

The only thing that might change is the owners might be happier to accept and underwrite the downside risk so are prepared to commit more of those resources on fees which might have to be funded by them in the event of a relegation. This might not sound significant but it might mean we are a little bit more likely to spend a few more million on a deal to push it over the line but it doesn't mean we are shopping in Harrods.

However all this is speculation we simply don't know what the new ownership will do until is the new ownership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 22, 2016, 08:47:03 AM
Here is a piece written by Simon Chadwick. The BBC says Coventry Business School, but he's actually a Professor at Salford Business School. He's apparently an authority on Chinese developments in European Football.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35019718 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35019718)

This is Professor Chadwick's twitter page, if you scroll down the page to around August 7th, he talks about Gouchuan Lai being something of an unknown, & he uses the word opaque when describing Chinese Business deals generally, perhaps that's why the FCA & The Premier League searches are taking time.
I'm not suggesting for one minute that there's anything untoward happening, but relating back to the house buying scenario, if a seller has not been very diligent in keeping records,searches can take a long time.

https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick (https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 22, 2016, 09:11:30 AM
Here is a piece written by Simon Chadwick. The BBC says Coventry Business School, but he's actually a Professor at Salford Business School. He's apparently an authority on Chinese developments in European Football.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35019718 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35019718)

This is Professor Chadwick's twitter page, if you scroll down the page to around August 7th, he talks about Gouchuan Lai being something of an unknown, & he uses the word opaque when describing Chinese Business deals generally, perhaps that's why the FCA & The Premier League searches are taking time.
I'm not suggesting for one minute that there's anything untoward happening, but relating back to the house buying scenario, if a seller has not been very diligent in keeping records,searches can take a long time.

https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick (https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick)

You've probably hit the nail on the head there.   The "fund" investor here is especially opaque, and I suspect that's where the issues may be.  Identifying the ultimate investors in the fund is one challenge, then the ultimate investors need to be verified.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 22, 2016, 10:29:41 AM
This date in August for the completion were did it come from & is that source trusted. I mean it all could be a ploy to get better deals in the transfer dealings. I mean can you see JP sanctioning a £16 million deal if it was his own money. :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 22, 2016, 10:50:20 AM
Don't know if you believe the Express and Star but this what was said

Until the Chinese takeover is approved by the Premier League and the Financial Conduct Authority in October, Peace still owns an 88 per cent majority stake in the club.

Read more at http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/08/22/west-broms-tony-pulis-urges-jeremy-peace-to-work-with-guochuan-lai-and-sign-players/#Yjka2rJtl0IciSYS.99



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on August 22, 2016, 11:13:56 AM
Don't know if you believe the Express and Star but this what was said

Until the Chinese takeover is approved by the Premier League and the Financial Conduct Authority in October, Peace still owns an 88 per cent majority stake in the club.

Read more at http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/08/22/west-broms-tony-pulis-urges-jeremy-peace-to-work-with-guochuan-lai-and-sign-players/#Yjka2rJtl0IciSYS.99

This is almost certainly the case. JP would not sign the document transferring his shares until he sees the colour of the Chiinese money. The money is possibly being held in a Solicitors bank waiting for the necessary regulatory approval.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 22, 2016, 11:39:50 AM
This date in August for the completion were did it come from & is that source trusted. I mean it all could be a ploy to get better deals in the transfer dealings. I mean can you see JP sanctioning a £16 million deal if it was his own money. :o

Erm, it's not and never has been his own money?

The clubs transfer funds are the clubs not the owners. The club's transfer budget is made from funds in the club. Money doesn't disappear just because Peace leaves. People need to get it out their heads that penny pinching Peace is being tight with their own money. They're custodians of the clubs funds, like a CEO is in charge of their company's funds. It's not their personal wealth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 22, 2016, 12:01:04 PM
Erm, it's not and never has been his own money?

The clubs transfer funds are the clubs not the owners. The club's transfer budget is made from funds in the club. Money doesn't disappear just because Peace leaves. People need to get it out their heads that penny pinching Peace is being tight with their own money. They're custodians of the clubs funds, like a CEO is in charge of their company's funds. It's not their personal wealth.

I think the August completion date was muted based on searches being straight forward, from some of the research, that might not now be the case, not that it's anything to worry about, it's just that legal musings are traditionally slow.
Psalm is correct, even if the CEO is also the major shareholder, funds within a business belong to the business, not the individual. During the transition period, it will be in everybody's interests to ensure that for season 2016/17 WBA retains it's PL status, & I would think that decisions would be taken jointly.
So no JP would not be able to unilaterally decide to limit spending, & unless Guochuan Lai had any skeletons in the cupboard, would probably be in a position to assist.

I reiterate, cash is not the problem, availability of players is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 22, 2016, 02:48:22 PM
Erm, it's not and never has been his own money?

The clubs transfer funds are the clubs not the owners. The club's transfer budget is made from funds in the club. Money doesn't disappear just because Peace leaves. People need to get it out their heads that penny pinching Peace is being tight with their own money. They're custodians of the clubs funds, like a CEO is in charge of their company's funds. It's not their personal wealth.

does he not have to sanction the spending were ever the money comes from, i mean if not ive been blaming him for years for not buying class player, i was really asking if it was true about the date that all the fit & proper work would come to a end or could that date be a smoke screen thats all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WestBromJim on August 22, 2016, 03:15:05 PM
I think the August completion date was muted based on searches being straight forward, from some of the research, that might not now be the case, not that it's anything to worry about, it's just that legal musings are traditionally slow.
Psalm is correct, even if the CEO is also the major shareholder, funds within a business belong to the business, not the individual. During the transition period, it will be in everybody's interests to ensure that for season 2016/17 WBA retains it's PL status, & I would think that decisions would be taken jointly.
So no JP would not be able to unilaterally decide to limit spending, & unless Guochuan Lai had any skeletons in the cupboard, would probably be in a position to assist.

I reiterate, cash is not the problem, availability of players is.

Who other than JP can give the go ahead to release money to buy players?

JP has around £180 million cash waiting for him when the deal finally goes through, the value of the club/business will not go down because of £30million quids worth of transfers.

But £30 million that was cash, has now became an asset of club so it DOES balance itself out.

But, assets of a club are a risk, cash is cash. There is absolutely no reason why JP would need to take a risk at this stage in the game, Assets were still assets (as cash was still cash), when he first took over, and his net transfer spend since he took over is £2.7 million per season.

Many of you were applauding JP's cautious approach over the years, whilst others on here were saying 'Why not invest in the 1st team squad more, after all he has not lost any money because they are assets!'

Whats changed?

Your argument suggests transfers this summer are in some way different to any other summer.

Unless of course he really did have the best interests of West Bromwich Albion at heart.

He has been ultra cautious throughout his reign at the Albion, what makes you think he would take a risk now a month or so before he kerchings?

Maybe the whole takeover has just took alot longer than anticipated, maybe JP thought he would be chilling out at Butlins with half a light ale weeks ago, allowing the new guys to really get stuck into the transfer market.

As for the potential new owners, until everything is signed and sealed they won't put anything into the club, quite rightly, because as it stands it has absolutely nothing to do with them.

As for availability of players; 101 transfers into Premier league clubs aside from us so far.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 22, 2016, 03:26:05 PM
No evidence that the new owners are putting a penny of investment into the club so our budget for summer signings isn't affected by the takeover. We have a lower wage bill than last year having released a few and extra guaranteed income from the new TV deal.

Still very strange that the takeover could take until October. Wolves were sold to Chinese investors / fosun without the same delay.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mikehy on August 23, 2016, 09:56:33 PM
Anyone else heard that takeover should be ratified by Thursday
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 23, 2016, 10:03:19 PM
Anyone else heard that takeover should be ratified by Thursday

No but I sure hope you are right!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on August 24, 2016, 12:30:18 AM
Maybe Mr LAi just fancies jezzas million pound a year salary And will leave the chairman to run it on the cheap like peace has done for the past 6 years with inept managers and slow untalented footballers signing freebies and the odd failure from abroad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 24, 2016, 12:39:58 AM
So many mixed messages and lack of accountability for the transfer none events so far.

Going into the season with so many known weaknesses and difficencies has been unforgivable and, frankly, an insult to the loyal fans !

Who is standing up to be counted at OUR CLUB ???????
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 24, 2016, 08:22:49 AM
With regard to who's controlling the club's finances at present, I saw the cameras showing Lai, Jenkins and Williams at the Everton game, but there was no sign of Peace. Did anyone see him there?

Just a quick aside regarding Jenkins, it was said at the time of the takeover announcement that Jenkins would be on his bike too, so it's disappointing that he's still around. However, an ITK poster elsewhere said last night that Jenkins is working 3 months' notice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 24, 2016, 08:38:56 AM
With regard to who's controlling the club's finances at present, I saw the cameras showing Lai, Jenkins and Williams at the Everton game, but there was no sign of Peace. Did anyone see him there?

Just a quick aside regarding Jenkins, it was said at the time of the takeover announcement that Jenkins would be on his bike too, so it's disappointing that he's still around. However, an ITK poster elsewhere said last night that Jenkins is working 3 months' notice.

Peace is tax resident in Jersey now. He needs to minimise his visits to the UK. That's why you won't see much of him.  He'll be providing his input by phone and video conference from Jersey.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 24, 2016, 08:44:16 AM
If people want information from supposed ITK posters can they please PM them. Requests for info from ITK posters will be deleted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 24, 2016, 02:46:21 PM
What an ideal opportuity to attract a smidgen of the market in China going to waste with, well what ever its called but it aint football
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 24, 2016, 02:58:57 PM
Thanks for the scarf and dishwater.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RICH ONE on August 24, 2016, 08:09:36 PM
Heard from a couple of people at the game last night that the takeover could be completed tomorrow.  As  anyone heard this news ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 24, 2016, 08:15:43 PM
Heard from a couple of people at the game last night that the takeover could be completed tomorrow.  As  anyone heard this news ?

I heard the same rumour from somebody in Jersey this morning.  No idea how genuine it is, but certainly hope it is !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RICH ONE on August 24, 2016, 08:17:48 PM
I heard the same rumour from somebody in Jersey this morning.  No idea how genuine it is, but certainly hope it is !
The one person who told us the news is close to the club and  not the type of person to feed rubbish
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 24, 2016, 08:21:26 PM
The one person who told us the news is close to the club and  not the type of person to feed rubbish

Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on August 24, 2016, 10:21:08 PM
I heard the same rumour from somebody in Jersey this morning.  No idea how genuine it is, but certainly hope it is !
This somebody. Was he bald...and smiling like a Cheshire cat? ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on August 24, 2016, 10:56:30 PM
This somebody. Was he bald...and smiling like a Cheshire cat? ::)
Thank you for cheering me up  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 24, 2016, 11:32:45 PM
This somebody. Was he bald...and smiling like a Cheshire cat? ::)

No - but was the estate agent who brokered his Jersey house and was definitely still smiling!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on August 25, 2016, 08:13:14 PM
Heard from a couple of people at the game last night that the takeover could be completed tomorrow.  As  anyone heard this news ?
Tumbleweed blowing across the plain................ ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Londonbaggymike on August 28, 2016, 09:31:06 AM
I wonder if the rumoured big money bids for Slimani and now Carvalho are a sign that the deal is either done or extremely imminent and the new owner's money is being spent not JP's.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wing wizard on August 28, 2016, 06:39:43 PM
Not sure if anybody else heard it on talk sport earlier (after match), but saggers I think it is said he had heard on good authority today that takeover had been slow due to stage payments (or words to that affect) , and that a big payment had gone through this weekend which was now going to release big money to spend in last few days of window.....at least that's how I understood it....don't shoot the messenger....!! 🙄
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on August 28, 2016, 06:49:54 PM
Not sure if anybody else heard it on talk sport earlier (after match), but saggers I think it is said he had heard on good authority today that takeover had been slow due to stage payments (or words to that affect) , and that a big payment had gone through this weekend which was now going to release big money to spend in last few days of window.....at least that's how I understood it....don't shoot the messenger....!! 🙄
Fingers crossed then eh? As some of the latest names and rumours we are linked with ain't for penny's or the faint hearted.we are talking 50M easily
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 30, 2016, 12:04:48 PM
Looking at the players we're trying to sign , you do wonder whether Mr Lai has put up some significant cash up front to help bolster the team?

Peace would not have authorised such spending surely? Or maybe it's his parting gift to leave us with a couple of big signings ?

Either way, let's see who we actually end up with?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 30, 2016, 12:07:35 PM
could it be on the back of just the 100 million we are entitield too
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on August 30, 2016, 12:09:33 PM
Not sure if anybody else heard it on talk sport earlier (after match), but saggers I think it is said he had heard on good authority today that takeover had been slow due to stage payments (or words to that affect) , and that a big payment had gone through this weekend which was now going to release big money to spend in last few days of window.....at least that's how I understood it....don't shoot the messenger....!! 🙄

Doesn't make sense to me, all payments, staged or otherwise will go into JP nice fat bank account, it won't touch Albions finances, nought to do with it unless JP or our new owner are pumping some of their own money into the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on August 30, 2016, 12:09:49 PM
Not sure if anybody else heard it on talk sport earlier (after match), but saggers I think it is said he had heard on good authority today that takeover had been slow due to stage payments (or words to that affect) , and that a big payment had gone through this weekend which was now going to release big money to spend in last few days of window.....at least that's how I understood it....don't shoot the messenger....!! 🙄

Doesn't make sense to me, all payments, staged or otherwise will go into JP nice fat bank account, it won't touch Albions finances, nought to do with it unless JP or our new owner are pumping some of their own money into the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on August 31, 2016, 06:21:16 PM
Someone should give him a map to Rotherham and Cardiff unless our transfers improve today :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on August 31, 2016, 06:54:49 PM
What makes you think they have money, it's not 1 investment company but 3 I would assume most of their cash has gone buying the club but never mind JP does has the clubs interests at heart
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 31, 2016, 09:20:19 PM
smart one, your investments going down the plug hole
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 31, 2016, 09:21:16 PM
smart one, your investments going down the plug hole
One chap I was talking tonight says it will all fall though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 31, 2016, 09:24:30 PM
One chap I was talking tonight says it will all fall though.

to be honest Kev i hope it does, JP Dont deserve his wealth on the back of the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 31, 2016, 09:25:20 PM
to be honest Kev i hope it does, JP Dont deserve his wealth on the back of the club.
I don't agree with you on some things but I do on this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on August 31, 2016, 09:32:38 PM
LAI OUT
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on August 31, 2016, 09:39:40 PM
LAI OUT

He is not IN yet and if he has any sense he never should be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on August 31, 2016, 09:43:50 PM
Interesting on 5 live they are saying peace is still in contol of club until october so this is very much peaces deadline day explains all
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on August 31, 2016, 09:46:22 PM
Interesting on 5 live they are saying peace is still in contol of club until october so this is very much peaces deadline day explains all

Would explain everything BUT he's left a minefield for the new owners to walk into with fans seething and staying away - hope someone is telling the home truths and not just what he'd like to hear.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on August 31, 2016, 09:55:03 PM
He is not IN yet and if he has any sense he never should be.
Iknow, just thought I would offer him some advice  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 31, 2016, 09:59:00 PM
If Guochuan Lai pulled the plug on the buy out, then Peace would realise what a tw*t he is, and what he has lost by being such a tw*t.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 31, 2016, 10:31:47 PM
I am sure the Chinese want to see pictures of a half empty ground.
NOT !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Andzy on August 31, 2016, 11:00:26 PM
What do you think our new owners make of this god damn shambles of a transfer window I think JP has sold us up the river to be honest
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 31, 2016, 11:05:09 PM
I think they're party to it.

Peace and the new owners are just thinking in £££

No respect for fans
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on August 31, 2016, 11:05:33 PM
Let's be honest, I shall bring you the truth now, whether you choose to believe it or not. Peace or the Chinese didn't want to spend too much, and Pulis wasn't in a position to kick up too much of a fuss due to recent goings on with Palace etc. Just my opinion ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 31, 2016, 11:13:46 PM
The new owners said business as usual and they have delivered on that. They are not putting any money into the club. Nobody had heard of them until the deal was announced. Meanwhile our local rivals both have Chinese owners who have the track record and cash and have already invested. Peace was small time in ambition and he has sold us to a similar owner. The former director of a landscaping company, give me a break.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: superbobgod on August 31, 2016, 11:17:13 PM
Prem Lge will think we are taking the urine when we submit our 20 man 25 man squad!!

Meanwhile . . . in Jersey . . .Peace sits in his money pit like Scrooge McDuck counting his millions and laughing like Dr Evil at the fans who think his stewardship wasnt purely for his benefit!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 31, 2016, 11:36:30 PM
I never said it was intentional.  But it's the reality. We are in limbo and spending will as a result be very limited.  Peace and Lai cannot risk spending big in case approval isn't forthcoming. 

Sorry that you seem to be struggling to grasp what is so obvious. 

The only way that I can see us buying 5 players is if we sell Evans.  Otherwise it will quite possibly be only 3 in, with Berahino being sold.

Anyway, we'll find out in 11 days time. 

I genuinely hope you are right and I'm wrong.

Pretty much as I was saying.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on August 31, 2016, 11:41:02 PM
Lets see how well Lai can sell the club back home when we play the worst football in the league and get relegated.

I just hope we can stay competitive until January because the mid season window could well be crucial this season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 31, 2016, 11:42:23 PM
Pretty much as I was saying.....

Not really, if Pulis hadn't pulled the plug on Camacho we'd have spent another £20 million, & if, as i suspect, we were really after Carvalho we'd have spent another £30 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 31, 2016, 11:45:53 PM
Not really, if Pulis hadn't pulled the plug on Camacho we'd have spent another £20 million, & if, as i suspect, we were really after Carvalho we'd have spent another £30 million.

You keep blaming Pulis for it all based on rumour and nothing concrete, what about the rumours we didn't meet the release fee, what about us reportedly offering £21m for Carvalho when they wanted £34m.

We as a club have messed around in another transfer window, one overseen by the same people who oversaw all the other recent ones.

The whole shambles is down to more than one man no matter how you try and pin it on him. The fact we have not allowed Saido to leave is another major factor in this disgraceful show of ambition.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 31, 2016, 11:53:19 PM
Not really, if Pulis hadn't pulled the plug on Camacho we'd have spent another £20 million, & if, as i suspect, we were really after Carvalho we'd have spent another £30 million.

It's clear that those deals were never going to happen.

Is just like West Ham if 3-4 years ago.  Pretend to be interested in big signings but never deliver.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 31, 2016, 11:55:23 PM
It's clear that those deals were never going to happen.

Is just like West Ham if 3-4 years ago.  Pretend to be interested in big signings but never deliver.

Camacho was due to sign today but pulis pulled the plug on it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WestBromJim on August 31, 2016, 11:58:23 PM
Not really, if Pulis hadn't pulled the plug on Camacho we'd have spent another £20 million, & if, as i suspect, we were really after Carvalho we'd have spent another £30 million.

But we didn't.

In fact, out of the scores of players we have been linked with, some ropey, but some seem to have credibility, we managed a loan signing, to replace Poco. A right back, that is cover for a central defender playing out of position; a wide midfielder in Chadli, when that is possibly the one area with the exception of goalkeepers we didn't need to strengthen as a priority, Brunt, McMannaman, Leko, Phillips, McClean and Saido has played there. A replacement for Vic and Lambert in Robson-Kanu, who isn't a full time striker  (see Chadli above).

Are you telling me Pulis vetoed all of them?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 01, 2016, 12:05:01 AM
Camacho was due to sign today but pulis pulled the plug on it

Yes - Pulis seemingly never wanted it.  It wasn't going to happen.  He's ultimately in charge of transfers.

Personally, am convinced that not landing Rodriguez on loan proved crucial. Means we didn't sell Berahino for £20m, which meant we didn't have the cash to buy Camacho or Cavalho.  Peace was never going to have an even bigger net spend after we bought Chadli.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Xpresso on September 01, 2016, 01:46:49 AM
After being stitched up they way they have by the greedy bald-headed one, I wouldn't blame the Chinese if they pulled the plug on the whole deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on September 01, 2016, 01:47:47 AM
Free pints and scarves every home game? we have the money now ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on September 01, 2016, 02:31:26 AM
Yes - Pulis seemingly never wanted it.  It wasn't going to happen.  He's ultimately in charge of transfers.

Personally, am convinced that not landing Rodriguez on loan proved crucial. Means we didn't sell Berahino for £20m, which meant we didn't have the cash to buy Camacho or Cavalho.  Peace was never going to have an even bigger net spend after we bought Chadli.
So, we spend three days chasing and haggling over fees and wages and then we ask our manager if he wants the players and he says NO? If you were pulis and were offered players of this class would you say no?
That doesn't make any sense at all.
The whole comacho/carvalo debacle was  a smoke screen to fool us into thinking this window was going to be different and we were going to show a bit of ambition, The men at the top just don't have the guts to open the cheque book.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mank baggie on September 01, 2016, 03:45:24 AM
Absolute joke of a summer we deserve to go down, why do I get my hopes up
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HamsteadHarry on September 01, 2016, 06:47:23 AM
Keeping JP as an advisor will have heavily influenced all this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on September 01, 2016, 06:51:06 AM
Keeping JP as an advisor will have heavily influenced all this.

Technically he's not an advisor at the mmoment he's still the owner
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: rajesh-wba on September 01, 2016, 07:21:14 AM
I have to say I'm personally very disappointed with how the transfer window has panned out.

I wasn't too critical of the club as I genuinely felt we would sign the "top quality" players we had been looking for, hence why we waited all Summer.

Let's be honest Nyom and Hal Robson Kanu could have been signed last month. With HRK as a 4th choice striker I wouldn't have moaned, but where is the "quality" to support Rondon?

People may argue shifting Berahino has hampered us, but he's on £15,000 a week, and we shouldn't be reliant on moving players to sign them. Without even the takeover and money we've saved by releasing players and selling them. I can't quite fathom what has happened.

Considering we released Anichebe and Sessegnon and saved around £100,000 in wages per week, I would be interested to know what budget (%) we have spent in this window. Clearly we have not spent what we have.
Add into this we sold Chester, Gamoba, Lambert (around circa £8-10m) and released there wages in addition to Pocognoli.

Also what happened to our second domestic loan? Questions that should be asked by the local journalists.

There needs to be clear lines of communication now the window has closed. If the takeover hasn't officially gone through and is still to be ratified by the Financial Conduct Authority, surely we as supporters would appreciate and respect honesty? Is this why we have only spent £21m in transfer fees, plus a loan fee of around £1m and a signing on fee of £1-2m.

Money brought in would be in region of around £10-11m. A very simplistic way of looking at it (and I may well be wrong) but that represents around a £12m NET Spend.

My only other conclusion is that the board doesn't trust Pulis, as he prefers British based players as opposed to the foreign markets. We've managed to shift on the "dead wood" with only McManaman remaining who Pulis doesn't seem to trust.

Maybe there view is let's grin and bear this season - survive and take stock? As any other manager would struggle with the tools Pulis has been given. We've not sacked him but neither backed him, as if the cynic in me thinks - did we want him to walk?

But then IF we do survive - we will have a massive rebuilding job to do in Summer 2017. Olsson, McAuley, Gardner and Berahino are in there last years currently.

The midfield overall still lacks athleticism, guile and pace.

I personally won't judge the new owner until the deal is ratified.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sarniabaggie on September 01, 2016, 07:22:08 AM
The reason players don't sign is Tony Pulis.  Come on folks get real.  They were offering good money but players do not want to play for this coach.  The other factor is the prices.  Just look at the price paid for Benteke.  A one season wonder that has generated more money for himself and agents in transfers than we will earn in a life time!

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on September 01, 2016, 07:27:48 AM
The reason players don't sign is Tony Pulis.  Come on folks get real.  They were offering good money but players do not want to play for this coach.  The other factor is the prices.  Just look at the price paid for Benteke.  A one season wonder that has generated more money for himself and agents in transfers than we will earn in a life time!

Benteke kept villa up year after year, no way is he a one season wonder and in todays market you have to pay the going rate which we were unwilling to do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on September 01, 2016, 07:50:26 AM
Pulis warned they are going to run along the same lines as JP. So why do people hope for change. HRK is as good as it gets.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on September 01, 2016, 07:52:10 AM
I am no conspiracy theorist but something doesnt seem right about this takeover.

They said the deal was agreed June 23rd i think it was, prior to that discussions would of taken place, Mr Lai didnt just phone up June 22nd and buy us!

I would assume the period between June 23rd and start August when it was announced was the final due dilligence, exclusivity, etc. We announced the takeover early August and its now being said it wont be completed until October.

I also heard Talksport saying they had it on good authority that the funds were being paid in installments, thats one of the things i dont get, Mr Lai said he had brought us outright, there was no debt raised to pay for us.

Also i know people have to be ratified but i have not known any other takeover take anywhere near as long as ours, if it is the FA messing around then if i was Mr Lai i would be taking action as it may end up costing him a lot of money as he hasnt been able to invest in the squad which is ultimately where the money will be made.

If i was him i would be very concerned that his investment is looking iffy, surely if your spending as much as he / they are to buy the club you would provide some financial backing to buy better players as that usually equals better results, better attendances and for him to promote in china - a better brand.

Even if he does takeover in October, he will be taking over when gates are down (already the empty seats show that) the atmosphere will be poor, he cannot do anything to the playing staff til January and we will be boring to watch, again not a great selling point for the first chinese owned premier league club.

Something just does not add up to me about this whole takeover thing and i cannot put my finger on it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on September 01, 2016, 08:12:48 AM
quite possibly 3 local teams all in the same league next season with chineese investors.I wonder what his thoughts are at this moment in time. Maybe when the take over is official he will ok the persue of an out of contract footballer 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 01, 2016, 08:41:10 AM
But we didn't.

In fact, out of the scores of players we have been linked with, some ropey, but some seem to have credibility, we managed a loan signing, to replace Poco. A right back, that is cover for a central defender playing out of position; a wide midfielder in Chadli, when that is possibly the one area with the exception of goalkeepers we didn't need to strengthen as a priority, Brunt, McMannaman, Leko, Phillips, McClean and Saido has played there. A replacement for Vic and Lambert in Robson-Kanu, who isn't a full time striker  (see Chadli above).

Are you telling me Pulis vetoed all of them?

Jim, as usual on deadline day, there are some players you are linked with who may or may not come off, but we were allegedly seriously linked with Camacho & Carvalho. We allegedly made a bid of circa £25 million for Carvalho which together with his wages would have been about £30 million. You don't make a serious bid like that if you haven't got the money. It looks as though Carvalho was a step too far for us, as the bid was rejected, which left Camacho as a fall-back, allegedly TP said he didn't want him.
Somebody at the club decided they wanted to play the brinkmanship card this window, not sure who, but it's been a big time fail.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 01, 2016, 08:48:34 AM
You keep blaming Pulis for it all based on rumour and nothing concrete, what about the rumours we didn't meet the release fee, what about us reportedly offering £21m for Carvalho when they wanted £34m.

We as a club have messed around in another transfer window, one overseen by the same people who oversaw all the other recent ones.

The whole shambles is down to more than one man no matter how you try and pin it on him. The fact we have not allowed Saido to leave is another major factor in this disgraceful show of ambition.

It appears that we haven't spent our transfer budget, for a transfer strategy that is intended to maximise the budget, ie get as much as you can out of it, that doesn't make sense. Apart from Phillips & Chadli, we left everything until the final day, that smacks of a brinkmanship strategy, who's got a track record in brinkmanship?????????????????
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on September 01, 2016, 10:04:55 AM
Does anyone know why this proposed take over is taking so long. I heard last night that one problem was the small percentage of shares held buy a number of supporters. Surely the fit and proper thing should have gone though by now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WestBromJim on September 01, 2016, 10:13:30 AM
Does anyone know why this proposed take over is taking so long. I heard last night that one problem was the small percentage of shares held buy a number of supporters. Surely the fit and proper thing should have gone though by now.

It does seem to be taking an age.

Just guessing here but could it be due to the buyers being a consortium, and the fit and proper persons test or whatever it is, has to be carried out on all the consotium members rather than an individual?

As for the 12%??? of shares not owned by JP i know nothing about that, but if they are holding out for more money good luck to them, that is afterall what JP would do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 01, 2016, 10:22:54 AM
Might be that these new investors want to buy the club with a loan from club on future revenue.they have got no money
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on September 01, 2016, 10:25:48 AM
I tell you what, if the delay in completing the takeover is down to the small minority of shareholders wanting more money then they are an absolute disgrace and cannot call themselves West Bromwich Albion supporters.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on September 01, 2016, 11:21:23 AM
Might be that these new investors want to buy the club with a loan from club on future revenue.they have got no money
Wasn't that the reason last seasons take over failed?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 01, 2016, 11:37:02 AM
Wasn't that the reason last seasons take over failed?
has anyone got a clue if these people have any financial muscle??????????????
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on September 01, 2016, 11:56:27 AM
Like i said above i think they have really missed a opportunity here.

Even if they takeover now, the potential feelgood factor has already gone, it was a nice touch with the scarves and free drinks but ultimately its what happens on the pitch and i think most Albion fans know no cup run to even look forward too, next few months are going to be boring and tedious, which in itself breeds negativity.

We should be dancing off the rooftops that we are starting a new era, an exciting time but instead with the transfer window being worse than normal on paper it all feels a bit meh.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boingusmaximus on September 01, 2016, 12:05:00 PM
I tell you what, if the delay in completing the takeover is down to the small minority of shareholders wanting more money then they are an absolute disgrace and cannot call themselves West Bromwich Albion supporters.
As one of the 12% I can categorically confirm that the smaller shareholders have  no financial benefit from the takeover, nor are we likely to. On the contrary , a lot of people bought shares to help the club when the finances were in a mess in the 1980s and early 90s.
Only one person has benefited, or will benefit, which is why we have Pulis in charge.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 01, 2016, 12:05:26 PM
Wasn't that the reason last seasons take over failed?

No, from my understanding the new buyers couldn't provide proof of funding.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on September 01, 2016, 01:10:39 PM
As one of the 12% I can categorically confirm that the smaller shareholders have  no financial benefit from the takeover, nor are we likely to. On the contrary , a lot of people bought shares to help the club when the finances were in a mess in the 1980s and early 90s.
Only one person has benefited, or will benefit, which is why we have Pulis in charge.   

That's good to know, the one who was whinging in the media must be a small minority then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 01, 2016, 01:36:19 PM
It appears that we haven't spent our transfer budget, for a transfer strategy that is intended to maximise the budget, ie get as much as you can out of it, that doesn't make sense. Apart from Phillips & Chadli, we left everything until the final day, that smacks of a brinkmanship strategy, who's got a track record in brinkmanship?????????????????

You blame Pulis for everything, this is a bloke who according to some on here works with player who share the same agents to get deals done and takes a cut so if thats true why didn't we sign any players that fall into this category ? Now you are saying he won't sign anyone.

Fall guy for the window - Tony Pulis

Even IF and we don't have any facts just "rumours" he rejected Camacho, maybe Camacho was on a list put to him and he didn't want him in the first place yet now apparantely he rejected him.

Be nice for people to wait for FACTS before scapegoating on RUMOUR
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: howard62baby on September 01, 2016, 01:55:18 PM
Shares in companies are bought and sold every day at you can gain or lose value at
The touch of a button. The main problem for the situation that we are in is that the club was sold to closes to transfer window ending and the investigation into the fit and proper investors taking as long as it has , is there some reason for this ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 01, 2016, 01:59:23 PM
You blame Pulis for everything, this is a bloke who according to some on here works with player who share the same agents to get deals done and takes a cut so if thats true why didn't we sign any players that fall into this category ? Now you are saying he won't sign anyone.

Fall guy for the window - Tony Pulis

Even IF and we don't have any facts just "rumours" he rejected Camacho, maybe Camacho was on a list put to him and he didn't want him in the first place yet now apparantely he rejected him.

Be nice for people to wait for FACTS before scapegoating on RUMOUR

Oldbury, lets correct 1 thing here, The working with players from his agent allegation, is from the secret footballer not users of this site and the oft forgotten dirty dealing at Gillingham.

I suggest last years court case with crystal palace PROVED that TP is sometimes less than scrupulous in his financial affairs. (carefully chosen words)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 01, 2016, 02:04:42 PM
Oldbury, lets correct 1 thing here, The working with players from his agent allegation, is from the secret footballer not users of this site and the oft forgotten dirty dealing at Gillingham.

I suggest last years court case with crystal palace PROVED that TP is sometimes less than scrupulous in his financial affairs. (carefully chosen words)

I know where it came from and as with the Camacho stuff there seems very little in the way of actual "facts" in regards to the Camacho deal and the players we sign seem to have differing agents which again offer little in the way of fact.

What happened at Palace and Gillingham are at different clubs and I guess neither operate in the way this club does given Pulis does not have any involvement in doing deals for players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on September 01, 2016, 02:42:20 PM
On the face of it, it appears that our new owners either have no money or, if they do, are not willing to spend it on our football club, so begs the question: Why buy the club???? Surely if we go down, our value goes down and they lose money virtually instantly.

Are they thinking, invest little, scrape 17th and milk the TV money? Lerner tried this and failed, so very risky.

Can anyone shed any light on what their intentions might be? Serious question, as I can't for the life of me think, why someone would buy something for £150m and let it go to pooh?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on September 01, 2016, 02:44:49 PM
Does anyone know when the approval of our Takeover will be, heard its October, but when in October, the silence from John Williams, Mr Lai and Jeremey Peace is deafening. The hold up, is it because its a group of investors and the FA and Premier League has to look at everyone one of the group, make sure they are legitimate owners, and not crooks. Its dragged on for so long, and think its had a massive effect on our recruitment. I think if Mr Lai was in charge wed have had a good go at this window, Peace just was never going to spend.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 01, 2016, 02:44:51 PM
On the face of it, it appears that our new owners either have no money or, if they do, are not willing to spend it on our football club, so begs the question: Why buy the club???? Surely if we go down, our value goes down and they lose money virtually instantly.

Are they thinking, invest little, scrape 17th and milk the TV money? Lerner tried this and failed, so very risky.

Can anyone shed any light on what their intentions might be? Serious question, as I can't for the life of me think, why someone would buy something for £150m and let it go to pooh?

Seems Mr Peace was in control of the window finances, new owners still not fully took over
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on September 01, 2016, 02:50:53 PM
Seems Mr Peace was in control of the window finances, new owners still not fully took over
If that's true though mate, we wouldn't even have been linked with £30m players.
Just doesn't add up to me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 01, 2016, 02:54:08 PM
If that's true though mate, we wouldn't even have been linked with £30m players.
Just doesn't add up to me.

Being linked is the easy part, actually going for them is another thing.

A lot of things about this club seem not to add up lately.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on September 01, 2016, 02:55:23 PM
If that's true though mate, we wouldn't even have been linked with £30m players.
Just doesn't add up to me.

How serious were the links/enquiries.
I could phone the Bently garage up in front of my mates to enquire about a new Corniche and only have Corsa money in my pocket
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Signor_Maresca on September 01, 2016, 03:20:29 PM
I was under the impression Peace’s influence and control had been very much downgraded to a purely (distant) advisory role - Williams is the man who runs the club on a day to day basis now, or is he?  Also what to Mark Jenkins, is he still playing a prominent role within the club, has he resigned or still working his notice period? The respected Pat Murphy seems to suggest that Peace’s weight is still very much at the forefront of the club's operations, one thing is for sure it all appears very unclear at the moment as to who is running this ship and what their agenda is.

This transfer window has been an absolute shambles; no evidence of a cohesive recruitment strategy and an embarrassing scatter gun approach to buying at the death.  £15M net spend this summer, last year (without the new TV deal) it was £27.5M. 

We turned down a £22M bid for a player with a year left on his contract who doesn’t want to be here and it now seems that the said player might exploit a loophole in the tribunal system which will mean we won’t even receive compensation for him.  We desperately needed a striker, we courted Sakho but then pulled the plug when we found out he wasn’t going to be fit until September, and again this is looking like another poor judgement call.  We pursued Schluup for weeks and weeks only for it to fall away at the last minute – what a waste of time that was, again seems like yet another poor judgement call, were Leicester ever willing to let him go and if not why waste so much of the summer chasing him.  We activated Camacho’s release clause, this seemed like a real coup for the club, only for us to start flirting behind his back with a grandiose ideas of signing Carvalho and Sissoko, in the end we got none of them, again poor judgement calls – but by who?  Who is culpable for this utter mess?  None of us really know.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on September 01, 2016, 03:23:03 PM
I was under the impression Peace’s influence and control had been very much downgraded to a purely (distant) advisory role - Williams is the man who runs the club on a day to day basis now, or is he?  Also what to Mark Jenkins, is he still playing a prominent role within the club, has he resigned or still working his notice period.  Pat Murphy seems to suggest that Peace’s weight is very much still at the forefront of club operations, one thing is for sure it all appears very unclear at the moment as to who is running this ship and what their agenda is.

This transfer window has been an absolute shambles; no evidence of a cohesive recruitment strategy and an embarrassing scatter gun approach to buying at the death.  £15M net spend this summer, last year (without the new TV deal) it was £27.5M. 

We turned down a £22M bid for a player with a year left on his contract who doesn’t want to be here and it now seems that the said player might exploit a loophole in the tribunal system which will mean we won’t even receive compensation for him.  We desperately needed a striker, we courted Sakho but then pulled the plug when we found out he wasn’t going to be fit until September, and again this is looking like another poor judgement call.  We pursued Schluup for weeks and weeks only for it to fall away at the last minute – what a waste of time that was, again seems like yet another poor judgement call, were Leicester ever willing to let him go and if not why waste so much of the summer chasing him.   We activated Camacho’s release clause, this seemed like a real coup for the club, only for us to start flirting behind his back with a grandiose ideas of signing Carvalho and Sissoko, in the end we got none of them, again poor judgement calls – but by who?  Who is culpable for this utter mess?  None of us really know.

Whilst i agree with 99% of this post, I dont agree with us taking blame for the Schlupp deal, it was reported at large that Schlupp wanted to come and play 1st team football but after the meeting Ranieri refused to let him go, we cant be at fault for that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on September 01, 2016, 04:13:18 PM
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/statement-west-brom-albion-chairman-john-williams-3286506.aspx

Interesting statement from the new Chairman - I suspect this indicates a level of frustration at Pulis turning down Camacho. Also indicates we will have significant funds in Jan. I wonder if Pulis will still be in charge come October when the takeover is fully ratified?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cornishbaggie on September 01, 2016, 04:21:05 PM
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/statement-west-brom-albion-chairman-john-williams-3286506.aspx

Interesting statement from the new Chairman - I suspect this indicates a level of frustration at Pulis turning down Camacho. Also indicates we will have significant funds in Jan. I wonder if Pulis will still be in charge come October when the takeover is fully ratified?

let's hope they are looking for a replacement right now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RowleyBaggie2 on September 01, 2016, 04:22:36 PM
To translate........

We had Camacho done, flipped about trying to get the other dude and ended up with none, but on a positive we might actually spend some money in January.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on September 01, 2016, 04:27:50 PM
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/statement-west-brom-albion-chairman-john-williams-3286506.aspx

Interesting statement from the new Chairman - I suspect this indicates a level of frustration at Pulis turning down Camacho. Also indicates we will have significant funds in Jan. I wonder if Pulis will still be in charge come October when the takeover is fully ratified?
What a load of old rubbish.

Does make out Pulis holds a lot of sway over targets though and hangs him out to dry to a certain extent, putting the blame at his door. Days numbered?? Hope so.

No mention of Nick Hammond's contribution though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on September 01, 2016, 09:36:53 PM
Might be that these new investors want to buy the club with a loan from club on future revenue.they have got no money

Just what are yousmoking- it's obviously clouding your judgement, you are making some wild unsubstantiated statements, without any evidence whatsoever.

Please get real :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 01, 2016, 10:24:44 PM
The problem is the new owners don't formally own the club. The ownership is in transition exactly who has final say on financial matters is debatable but it cannot be the new ownership who are not allowed to run the club until they have FA approval.

If we are looking to lay blame at someones door for the window Lai isn't the first port of call.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WestBromJim on September 02, 2016, 09:36:46 AM
I hope when the takeover is finally complete Lai trims down the executive staff a touch.

We have the owners, the chairman, the consultant, Garlick, Hammond and the manager.

It's hardly surprising things dont run as smooth as they might, if so many people have to agree on everything to get things done.

Would our Manager say I want him, him and him?

Does our Manager say I need a creative midfielder, they come back with a list for the manager to consider?

Who does what, if anything?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 02, 2016, 09:46:48 AM
I hope when the takeover is finally complete Lai trims down the executive staff a touch.

We have the owners, the chairman, the consultant, Garlick, Hammond and the manager.

It's hardly surprising things dont run as smooth as they might, if so many people have to agree on everything to get things done.

Would our Manager say I want him, him and him?

Does our Manager say I need a creative midfielder, they come back with a list for the manager to consider?

Who does what, if anything?
Pulis has made it clear that he provides lists of players and then it's up to the others to sort out which ones they can sign. He identifies the targets and others then negotiate fees, contracts etc.

Prior to the Pulis era, it seemed more often a case of the club scouting network identifying the players and the manager was then asked "we might be able to get X, would you like him if we can?".

With (hopefully) a higher transfer budget after the takeover goes through, the second set-up above seems more viable to me, as long as the manager isn't press-ganged into having players he doesn't want, and is also able to make suggestions of his own. That feels like a recipe for a more harmonious club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on September 02, 2016, 10:26:47 AM
Such a shame Mr Lai is not our owner yet as I feel he could of really made a difference in this transfer window and give us all a bit of a feel good factor back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WestBromJim on September 02, 2016, 10:55:15 AM
Pulis has made it clear that he provides lists of players and then it's up to the others to sort out which ones they can sign. He identifies the targets and others then negotiate fees, contracts etc.

Prior to the Pulis era, it seemed more often a case of the club scouting network identifying the players and the manager was then asked "we might be able to get X, would you like him if we can?".

With (hopefully) a higher transfer budget after the takeover goes through, the second set-up above seems more viable to me, as long as the manager isn't press-ganged into having players he doesn't want, and is also able to make suggestions of his own. That feels like a recipe for a more harmonious club.

Makes this whole footballing reasons rejection all the more baffling if it was a Pulis pick.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 02, 2016, 11:06:32 AM
Makes this whole footballing reasons rejection all the more baffling if it was a Pulis pick.
I'm not sure that Camacho was a Pulis pick. I suspect the club identified they could sign him and then started negotiating before Pulis eventually said no. I just wish someone would truthfully tell us what happened and why.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 02, 2016, 11:10:17 AM
Pulis has made it clear that he provides lists of players and then it's up to the others to sort out which ones they can sign. He identifies the targets and others then negotiate fees, contracts etc.



I sincerely hope that's not the case. Pulis has 7 days to prepare the team for a match, including sussing out the opposition, preparing a game plan, briefing the players on their roles in the game plan, testing it in training etc. When he's done all that, what time will he have to scout other players?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 02, 2016, 11:31:06 AM
I sincerely hope that's not the case. Pulis has 7 days to prepare the team for a match, including sussing out the opposition, preparing a game plan, briefing the players on their roles in the game plan, testing it in training etc. When he's done all that, what time will he have to scout other players?
It's definitely what he said. I'd rather not, but I can dig out the quote again for you if you want to see it from the horse's mouth?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on September 02, 2016, 11:33:31 AM
I sincerely hope that's not the case. Pulis has 7 days to prepare the team for a match, including sussing out the opposition, preparing a game plan, briefing the players on their roles in the game plan, testing it in training etc. When he's done all that, what time will he have to scout other players?

On the same vein of thought what is that Peace has to do in this situation? He doesn't scout players, he doesn't evaluate them, realistically player recruitment is left to the recruitment team. We have a head coach not a traditional manager (though to what extent Tony tries to work in the traditional managers role is up for debate). I simply can't see how Peace gets the wrap for any of this. If, as is reported, a deal was there to be done, a player was scouted and approached, how this is Peace's fault. The club statement explicitly says 'continued support from Peace and Lai' and so I find it hard to believe, given his role as an advisor, with the new owners backing, Peace meddled in this deal.

It is becoming apparent, despite contrasting accounts in the media, from the club and from Malaga, that this wasn't a case of not paying the money. You don't do all the work scouting a player, approaching with a deal and then call something off for 'footballing reasons' because you don't want to pay. What does Peace gain, in his advisory role, by getting involved in the work of a recruitment department he'll soon have nothing to do with? I don't know for certain, but I think this is a Pulis problem.

It seems that the 'director of football' model we had some success with before does not work with the head coach we have in place. Either way we need to decide how we recruit players, not try six of one and half a dozen of the other. A manager/head coach shouldn't have to sign players he doesn't want, and a recruitment department shouldn't have to do 95% of the work on a deal to have a head coach kill it at the 11th hour. It seems we have two parties working independently of each other which simply won't work. I can't decide the best course of action as I don't know how previous head coaches have worked under this system - but evidence suggests that in the past, under the right direction -and to some extent this window - that the scouting and recruitment of players isn't the problem; we wouldn't be arguing this if someone (whoever) at the club didn't see the potential in the likes of Cavalho and Camacho. We've identified them, someone blocked the deal.

 It points to the problem being outside of our recruitment department, who in the grand scheme of things identified a player that us as fans were desperate to get through the door - that's the hard part. There shouldn't be anyone trying to kill a deal inside the club once a target is identified and approached - we should NEVER be in that position.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 02, 2016, 11:37:24 AM
I sincerely hope that's not the case. Pulis has 7 days to prepare the team for a match, including sussing out the opposition, preparing a game plan, briefing the players on their roles in the game plan, testing it in training etc. When he's done all that, what time will he have to scout other players?

What worcs describes is exactly the way it is supposed to work with TP.
This was announced as a change in approach when TP was appointed.

Sounds like the new guy (Hammond?) has tried to revert to the old methodology and TP dug his heels in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on September 02, 2016, 11:44:53 AM
What worries me about this whole sorry saga is the bad reputation we must be getting when it comes to discussions with other clubs and players agents. No one will take us seriously at this rate. Very embarrassing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 02, 2016, 12:41:44 PM
On the same vein of thought what is that Peace has to do in this situation? He doesn't scout players, he doesn't evaluate them, realistically player recruitment is left to the recruitment team. We have a head coach not a traditional manager (though to what extent Tony tries to work in the traditional managers role is up for debate). I simply can't see how Peace gets the wrap for any of this. If, as is reported, a deal was there to be done, a player was scouted and approached, how this is Peace's fault. The club statement explicitly says 'continued support from Peace and Lai' and so I find it hard to believe, given his role as an advisor, with the new owners backing, Peace meddled in this deal.

It is becoming apparent, despite contrasting accounts in the media, from the club and from Malaga, that this wasn't a case of not paying the money. You don't do all the work scouting a player, approaching with a deal and then call something off for 'footballing reasons' because you don't want to pay. What does Peace gain, in his advisory role, by getting involved in the work of a recruitment department he'll soon have nothing to do with? I don't know for certain, but I think this is a Pulis problem.

It seems that the 'director of football' model we had some success with before does not work with the head coach we have in place. Either way we need to decide how we recruit players, not try six of one and half a dozen of the other. A manager/head coach shouldn't have to sign players he doesn't want, and a recruitment department shouldn't have to do 95% of the work on a deal to have a head coach kill it at the 11th hour. It seems we have two parties working independently of each other which simply won't work. I can't decide the best course of action as I don't know how previous head coaches have worked under this system - but evidence suggests that in the past, under the right direction -and to some extent this window - that the scouting and recruitment of players isn't the problem; we wouldn't be arguing this if someone (whoever) at the club didn't see the potential in the likes of Cavalho and Camacho. We've identified them, someone blocked the deal.

 It points to the problem being outside of our recruitment department, who in the grand scheme of things identified a player that us as fans were desperate to get through the door - that's the hard part. There shouldn't be anyone trying to kill a deal inside the club once a target is identified and approached - we should NEVER be in that position.

Any marketing guy will tell you that if you're going to restrict yourself to a small proportion of the total  available market, you're not going to maximise your investment (Not just money, time is far more important).
We (WBA) should not, & I hope, will not, have their recruitment policy dictated by one person. I'm afraid it's now become a FIFO ( Fit In or F*ck Off) situation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 02, 2016, 02:01:23 PM
Considering we are the only West Midland club in the Prem.
We should have been aiming to be the biggest, but we have small (club) minded people in charge.
Do we always want to play second fiddle to the Witton lot?
Will this change when the new owners actually control?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on September 02, 2016, 02:32:48 PM
Why did they bother to announce the take over if the new owner has no control over the transfers in this window? They may as well have kept quiet until everything has been signed sealed and delivered.
This window has only further soured relationships between management and the fans and if I were the new owner, as soon as I could, I would make a statement about the last few days and make it clear what had happened.
We need a bit of transparency to be able to start trusting them again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 02, 2016, 04:05:42 PM
I agree if and when the takeover is complete a clearing of the air should be a top priority.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 02, 2016, 11:17:57 PM
I agree if and when the takeover is complete a clearing of the air should be a top priority.
Another official statement then. ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smudger 2007 on September 04, 2016, 12:59:30 AM
What's holding the takeover up anyway? Appreciate the premier league or fa or whoever have got to action it and make sure there fit and proper and stuff. But it seems to drag on like everything else at the hawthorns. The wolves and villa takeovers seemed to happen smoother than this. They started spending straight away. Nothings ever transparent at this club. Were always guessing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 04, 2016, 05:27:07 AM
What's holding the takeover up anyway? Appreciate the premier league or fa or whoever have got to action it and make sure there fit and proper and stuff. But it seems to drag on like everything else at the hawthorns. The wolves and villa takeovers seemed to happen smoother than this. They started spending straight away. Nothings ever transparent at this club. Were always guessing

The Wolves and Villa ownership is more straightforward.   Ours involves three parties, one of which is a fund, and identifying and then verifying the credentials of the fund investors will not be anywhere near as straightforward.  That's one scenario.

The other scenario is that it's all agreed and approved but the buyers aren't able to come up with the cash till October, and so JP won't let go until the cash comes through.

But until the club comes clean we have no way of knowing.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on September 04, 2016, 07:52:11 AM
 An article today says Hull expect everything to be ratified and sorted by the end of the month. There takeover was only confirmed last week some 4 or 5 weeks after ours. So is thee some thing up or is it the shareholders complaints , in other words Albion fans causing problems for their own club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on September 04, 2016, 08:15:52 AM
An article today says Hull expect everything to be ratified and sorted by the end of the month. There takeover was only confirmed last week some 4 or 5 weeks after ours. So is thee some thing up or is it the shareholders complaints , in other words Albion fans causing problems for their own club?

As discussed at length at the time, the shareholders aren't in any way holding this deal up. And you've got to appreciate that these time differences for announcing things and comparing is a little misleading - when a team announces a deal is done to purchase the club that then affects how long it appears a deal has taken. What evidence do you have that we didn't just announce our sale early on in the process and the others late on when there was less to do?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on September 05, 2016, 07:47:52 PM
Pat Murphy just explained the delay in the takeover:

Premier League now insist on doing all regulatory research after the deal has been done - rumour had it Lai paid the full amount a week Saturday. So the fit and proper test is under way. The reason Villa and Wolves was done quicker is because the Premier League was dealing with ours and you know, they're not in that league.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 05, 2016, 08:36:07 PM
Pat Murphy just explained the delay in the takeover:

Premier League now insist on doing all regulatory research after the deal has been done - rumour had it Lai paid the full amount a week Saturday. So the fit and proper test is under way. The reason Villa and Wolves was done quicker is because the Premier League was dealing with ours and you know, they're not in that league.

Sorry Psalm, don't understand that one? So the Premier League will only do a fit & proper persons test once money has changed hands & the ownership has been transferred? So what happens if the new owner fails the test? Does he get his money back?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dudleylad on September 05, 2016, 09:01:54 PM
I would imagine the money is in an holding account whilst the fit and proper test is underway rather than exchanging directly to Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 05, 2016, 09:06:27 PM
I would imagine the money is in an holding account whilst the fit and proper test is underway rather than exchanging directly to Peace.

Can we have a raffle for the interest it's generating then? £200 million even at 0.5% would be a nice little earner. (about 80k per month)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 05, 2016, 10:18:20 PM
The reason Villa and Wolves was done quicker is because the Premier League was dealing with ours and you know, they're not in that league.
And, as we know, the Premier League devotes most of its time and resources sucking up to the biggest clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Boinggg on September 05, 2016, 11:11:48 PM
Can we have a raffle for the interest it's generating then? £200 million even at 0.5% would be a nice little earner. (about 80k per month)

It would be of no earner, because of inflation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 06, 2016, 06:58:00 AM
The "fit and proper person test" applies to anyone who is acquiring more than 10% of the club.

In this instance our ownership is as follows
Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited owns the club. It is in turn owned by

Yunyiye - 59% Owned by Guochuan Lai who provided the underlying equity to Yunyiye through a trust.
Yunjin - 23% - An investment fund which has sold shares in Yunyi it is private equity entity
Yunta 18% owned by Palm

All of the elements would have to pass the fit and proper persons test.

There are three basic parts to the test.

1. Source of funds i.e. money laundering tests
2. Solvency
3. Criminal background checks

Given that these apply to the corporate entities and those individuals who have executive control of them it is small wonder that it is taking time. While it does not mean that the new ownership will be good owners it does protect the club from the absolute rogues.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on September 06, 2016, 11:43:08 AM
The "fit and proper person test" applies to anyone who is acquiring more than 10% of the club.

In this instance our ownership is as follows
Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited owns the club. It is in turn owned by

Yunyiye - 59% Owned by Guochuan Lai who provided the underlying equity to Yunyiye through a trust.
Yunjin - 23% - An investment fund which has sold shares in Yunyi it is private equity entity
Yunta 18% owned by Palm

All of the elements would have to pass the fit and proper persons test.

There are three basic parts to the test.

1. Source of funds i.e. money laundering tests
2. Solvency
3. Criminal background checks

Given that these apply to the corporate entities and those individuals who have executive control of them it is small wonder that it is taking time. While it does not mean that the new ownership will be good owners it does protect the club from the absolute rogues.
Wouldn't this need to be done before money changed hands? If so why are we supposedly only waiting on the last instalment?
Genuine question. Seems strange to me that they would pay a percentage of the money up front if they risk being knocked back by the F&P rules.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on September 06, 2016, 11:50:00 AM
Pat Murphy just explained the delay in the takeover:

Premier League now insist on doing all regulatory research after the deal has been done - rumour had it Lai paid the full amount a week Saturday. So the fit and proper test is under way. The reason Villa and Wolves was done quicker is because the Premier League was dealing with ours and you know, they're not in that league.

Are you saying the fit and proper check is different for Premier League clubs compared to the Champtionship and lower leagues?
If so what happens if they get promoted? Do they have to be re-assessed?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 06, 2016, 12:18:57 PM
Wouldn't this need to be done before money changed hands? If so why are we supposedly only waiting on the last instalment?
Genuine question. Seems strange to me that they would pay a percentage of the money up front if they risk being knocked back by the F&P rules.

The sale surely wouldn't become completed until the final amount due is paid
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 06, 2016, 12:19:25 PM
Are you saying the fit and proper check is different for Premier League clubs compared to the Champtionship and lower leagues?
If so what happens if they get promoted? Do they have to be re-assessed?

A very good question!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on September 06, 2016, 12:25:10 PM
 So how come Hulls takeover is expected to be ratified in half the time its taking ours!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 06, 2016, 02:54:01 PM
So how come Hulls takeover is expected to be ratified in half the time its taking ours!!

I'm assuming Hulls prospective owners are not chinese?

Having done business in China, things can be, lets say "opaque" and getting a straight answer to a straight question is often "trying"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on September 06, 2016, 02:56:25 PM
maybe it is because Hull have less individuals who need to be checked.  The FCA I believe are also involved in the checks and especially because an investment company is involved. 

For individuals to act as lone financial advisers it can easily take 2 months for the FCA to complete the checks on them so there if no real surprise at the time that is taken.

In respect of the funds they will not have been passed to JP yet but would be purely sat in a holding account so that the evidence if there for the checks regarding "the colour of their money " etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RowleyBaggie2 on September 06, 2016, 02:57:46 PM
I'm assuming Hulls prospective owners are not chinese?

Having done business in China, things can be, lets say "opaque" and getting a straight answer to a straight question is often "trying"

You can say that again.

In China they don't recognise any other law but Chinese - that often makes the most simple contracts an absolute nightmare to get done.

It's the most mysterious place in the world, it's even possible that Mr. Lai is a frontman for someone else. I'd say thats a certainty where Villa are concerned.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on September 06, 2016, 03:00:30 PM
I'm assuming Hulls prospective owners are not chinese?

Having done business in China, things can be, lets say "opaque" and getting a straight answer to a straight question is often "trying"
yes i believe it is a chinese consortium buying Hull
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 06, 2016, 11:45:19 PM
In answer to the various questions re this I would suggest the issue is the Private Equity Company Yunjin which has been created and owns 23% of the club which is the element that would be subject to FCA approval.

The consortium that is taking over Hull may well be a collection of private individuals and as such only require Premier League approval which makes that transaction a little bit more straight forward.

With regard the league and the Premier League having slightly different arrangements it makes no difference once the relevant football authorities have approved the takeover of a club the ownership is not retested on relegation/promotion.

Finally the money is lodged with Peace's lawyers and held in a separate account which is only released to Peace when the sale has been approved. However if the sale does not complete due to a failure of the purchaser to pass the necessary regulatory tests then the money will be refunded less any penalty or expenses agreed in the sale contract.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 08, 2016, 08:22:16 AM
E & S reporting we have Premier League approval with FCA to approve some time this month
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on September 08, 2016, 08:22:27 AM
Passed the fit and proper ownership test.

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/09/08/premier-league-give-west-broms-chinese-takeover-the-thumbs-up/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/09/08/premier-league-give-west-broms-chinese-takeover-the-thumbs-up/)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WestBromJim on September 08, 2016, 08:40:20 AM
Passed the fit and proper ownership test.

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/09/08/premier-league-give-west-broms-chinese-takeover-the-thumbs-up/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/09/08/premier-league-give-west-broms-chinese-takeover-the-thumbs-up/)

I was just about to get the champers out then I read the bit about Peace staying on for the rest of the season as a consultant.

I hope your doing it for free Jeremy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Beefy on September 08, 2016, 01:54:29 PM
Albion’s frustrated minor shareholders have been bounced back to the club by the Premier League and the Financial Conduct Authority after neither body agreed to delay their approval of the Chinese takeover.

Shareholders for Albion, a group which represents the 433 minor shareholders, asked both organisations to hold up the takeover because they believe they have been ‘unfairly’ treated in the sale.

But the Premier League and the FCA have told Neil Reynolds, chairman of the group, to take up the grievance with the club.

The league have now approved the sale, and the FCA are expected to follow suit shortly, before the final handover of funds from Guochuan Lai to Jeremy Peace.

Reynolds plans to ask new chairman John Williams for a meeting in the next couple of weeks in order to discuss the future of the minor shareholders, but he is holding fire until the tension at the club from the the transfer window dies down.

“Both of them referred us back to the club,” revealed Reynolds. “But we are deliberately choosing not to pursue anything yet.

“I expect to meet with John Williams soon, but the fall-out from the transfer window is still happening, so we’re keeping a low profile.

“We don’t want to do anything to exacerbate the situation. We’ll leave it for a couple of weeks and consider our position.”

The minor shareholders own 12 per cent of the club, and were not contacted by Jeremy Peace or new owner Guochuan Lai during the sale of West Bromwich Holdings Ltd, which owns an 88 per cent majority.

It’s unknown exactly how much Peace made from the sale but estimates put the figure between £150-200million.

Reynolds thinks those who invested in the club when Albion ‘was at its lowest ebb’ and at a time of ‘greatest financial need’ should also be rewarded.

Last month he wrote to both the Premier League and the FCA on behalf of the shareholders, asking for both bodies to delay their approval of the sale.

At the time he said: “We’ve no objections to Mr Lai, we’re not implying he’s not a fit and proper person.

“We’re looking forward to a new era both on and off the pitch. I hope that this doesn’t sour it and that Albion can be a successful club again playing attractive football.

"The reason we would like it held up is so proper attention can be given to the plight of the minor shareholders.”

Reynolds admitted at the time that it was a long shot, because his request had no legal force behind it.

Peace is well within his rights to sell West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd, a private company which he had ultimate control over, without telling the other shareholders.


Read more at http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/09/08/west-brom-shareholders-bounced-back-to-club-by-premier-league-and-financial-conduct-authority/?#jC5hvjEaqi2Qlztv.99
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbawill on September 08, 2016, 02:40:11 PM
Good news that the test has been passed. Does anyone know how long it will take for the new owners to be in full control? I think everyone would like to move quickly from this state of limbo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on September 08, 2016, 02:48:42 PM
Albion’s frustrated minor shareholders have been bounced back to the club by the Premier League and the Financial Conduct Authority after neither body agreed to delay their approval of the Chinese takeover.

Shareholders for Albion, a group which represents the 433 minor shareholders, asked both organisations to hold up the takeover because they believe they have been ‘unfairly’ treated in the sale.

But the Premier League and the FCA have told Neil Reynolds, chairman of the group, to take up the grievance with the club.

The league have now approved the sale, and the FCA are expected to follow suit shortly, before the final handover of funds from Guochuan Lai to Jeremy Peace.

Reynolds plans to ask new chairman John Williams for a meeting in the next couple of weeks in order to discuss the future of the minor shareholders, but he is holding fire until the tension at the club from the the transfer window dies down.

“Both of them referred us back to the club,” revealed Reynolds. “But we are deliberately choosing not to pursue anything yet.

“I expect to meet with John Williams soon, but the fall-out from the transfer window is still happening, so we’re keeping a low profile.

“We don’t want to do anything to exacerbate the situation. We’ll leave it for a couple of weeks and consider our position.”

The minor shareholders own 12 per cent of the club, and were not contacted by Jeremy Peace or new owner Guochuan Lai during the sale of West Bromwich Holdings Ltd, which owns an 88 per cent majority.

It’s unknown exactly how much Peace made from the sale but estimates put the figure between £150-200million.

Reynolds thinks those who invested in the club when Albion ‘was at its lowest ebb’ and at a time of ‘greatest financial need’ should also be rewarded.

Last month he wrote to both the Premier League and the FCA on behalf of the shareholders, asking for both bodies to delay their approval of the sale.

At the time he said: “We’ve no objections to Mr Lai, we’re not implying he’s not a fit and proper person.

“We’re looking forward to a new era both on and off the pitch. I hope that this doesn’t sour it and that Albion can be a successful club again playing attractive football.

"The reason we would like it held up is so proper attention can be given to the plight of the minor shareholders.”

Reynolds admitted at the time that it was a long shot, because his request had no legal force behind it.

Peace is well within his rights to sell West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd, a private company which he had ultimate control over, without telling the other shareholders.


Read more at http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/09/08/west-brom-shareholders-bounced-back-to-club-by-premier-league-and-financial-conduct-authority/?#jC5hvjEaqi2Qlztv.99

This guy is a total jerk. He has about £500k in personal, prospective share value and is using his position as Chairman to air his greivances that he's not able to sell them. Doesn't speak for the rest of the S4A members at all and wouldn't be surprised if we get rid of him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on September 08, 2016, 03:17:19 PM
So if Guaochan Lai has the 59% and is rumoured to be worth £1.8 billion, what is the wealth of the other investors, who have  23% & 18%. I don't think any body knows the exact wealth of Mr Lai, as there are no details available, its the same as Tony Xia at Aston Villa. I'm sure once all approval is done, we will get a more clearer picture of the people involved and how much they are worth. Hopefully its all good news.

I think Pulis is on borrowed time, as well as Garlick and Hammond. I foresee a total change, ie new manager, and new recruitment team, this windows been a complete shambles.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 08, 2016, 05:11:13 PM
So if Guaochan Lai has the 59% and is rumoured to be worth £1.8 billion, what is the wealth of the other investors, who have  23% & 18%. I don't think any body knows the exact wealth of Mr Lai, as there are no details available, its the same as Tony Xia at Aston Villa. I'm sure once all approval is done, we will get a more clearer picture of the people involved and how much they are worth. Hopefully its all good news.

I think Pulis is on borrowed time, as well as Garlick and Hammond. I foresee a total change, ie new manager, and new recruitment team, this windows been a complete shambles.

Not sure that it really matters how much they are worth once it gets beyond a certain figure as they can't throw silly money at it anyway under FFP rules. Seems clear that Lai alone is worth more than enough to make a substantial difference to the club and take us forward.

QPR have several of the wealthiest men in Europe amongst their shareholders but they are not investing massively in the club, just trying to stabilise them after they ran up huge debts.   We don't have any debt, and whether Lai & Co are worth £1.8 billion, £5 billion or £10 billion, the extra over £1.8 billion is really neither here nor there.

Interesting times ahead although the next 4 months are likely to be turbulent.  Best fasten our seatbelts!


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 08, 2016, 05:14:17 PM
foresee a total change, ie new manager, and new recruitment team, this windows been a complete shambles.

I'm not so sure, it was stated somewhere that Mr Lai will be concentrating on his other businesses. Implying the chairman and his team will be running the business day to day.

While JP is involved as an "advisor" i doubt that radical change will be in the air.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on September 08, 2016, 05:48:23 PM
Albion’s frustrated minor shareholders have been bounced back to the club by the Premier League and the Financial Conduct Authority after neither body agreed to delay their approval of the Chinese takeover.

Shareholders for Albion, a group which represents the 433 minor shareholders, asked both organisations to hold up the takeover because they believe they have been ‘unfairly’ treated in the sale.

But the Premier League and the FCA have told Neil Reynolds, chairman of the group, to take up the grievance with the club.

The league have now approved the sale, and the FCA are expected to follow suit shortly, before the final handover of funds from Guochuan Lai to Jeremy Peace.

Reynolds plans to ask new chairman John Williams for a meeting in the next couple of weeks in order to discuss the future of the minor shareholders, but he is holding fire until the tension at the club from the the transfer window dies down.

“Both of them referred us back to the club,” revealed Reynolds. “But we are deliberately choosing not to pursue anything yet.

“I expect to meet with John Williams soon, but the fall-out from the transfer window is still happening, so we’re keeping a low profile.

“We don’t want to do anything to exacerbate the situation. We’ll leave it for a couple of weeks and consider our position.”

The minor shareholders own 12 per cent of the club, and were not contacted by Jeremy Peace or new owner Guochuan Lai during the sale of West Bromwich Holdings Ltd, which owns an 88 per cent majority.

It’s unknown exactly how much Peace made from the sale but estimates put the figure between £150-200million.

Reynolds thinks those who invested in the club when Albion ‘was at its lowest ebb’ and at a time of ‘greatest financial need’ should also be rewarded.

Last month he wrote to both the Premier League and the FCA on behalf of the shareholders, asking for both bodies to delay their approval of the sale.

At the time he said: “We’ve no objections to Mr Lai, we’re not implying he’s not a fit and proper person.

“We’re looking forward to a new era both on and off the pitch. I hope that this doesn’t sour it and that Albion can be a successful club again playing attractive football.

"The reason we would like it held up is so proper attention can be given to the plight of the minor shareholders.”

Reynolds admitted at the time that it was a long shot, because his request had no legal force behind it.

Peace is well within his rights to sell West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd, a private company which he had ultimate control over, without telling the other shareholders.


Read more at http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/09/08/west-brom-shareholders-bounced-back-to-club-by-premier-league-and-financial-conduct-authority/?#jC5hvjEaqi2Qlztv.99
So was this the reason for the long delay in ratification of the take over?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 08, 2016, 06:00:46 PM
So was this the reason for the long delay in ratification of the take over?

I think line 3 answers your question
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 08, 2016, 06:13:28 PM
It seems that the take over at Hull has hit the buffers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37312166
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 08, 2016, 06:16:37 PM
Just wondering could the new owners take the premiere league to court if the Albion get relegated on the basis of time it took to ratify deal. June the 24 th was the day that the deal was done and of to day it still hasn't been sanctioned by league, this has definitely hamstrung our transfer window. Any legal eagles out there have an opinion?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on September 08, 2016, 06:20:11 PM
"Shareholders for Albion, a group which represents the 433 minor shareholders, asked both organisations to hold up the takeover because they believe they have been ‘unfairly’ treated in the sale."
Did this contribute to the difficulties in the transfer window?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on September 08, 2016, 06:56:36 PM
"Shareholders for Albion, a group which represents the 433 minor shareholders, asked both organisations to hold up the takeover because they believe they have been ‘unfairly’ treated in the sale."
Did this contribute to the difficulties in the transfer window?
I would not think so Bry as.
"But the Premier League and the FCA have told Neil Reynolds, chairman of the group, to take up the grievance with the club."
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 08, 2016, 06:57:47 PM
"Shareholders for Albion, a group which represents the 433 minor shareholders, asked both organisations to hold up the takeover because they believe they have been ‘unfairly’ treated in the sale."
Did this contribute to the difficulties in the transfer window?

Almost certainly based on the fact it's been considered. Which is a disgrace as their complaint had no legal basis.

Out for themselves. Not true Albion fans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 08, 2016, 07:03:30 PM
Just wondering could the new owners take the premiere league to court if the Albion get relegated on the basis of time it took to ratify deal. June the 24 th was the day that the deal was done and of to day it still hasn't been sanctioned by league, this has definitely hamstrung our transfer window. Any legal eagles out there have an opinion?

Not a prayer.  Sale should have completed earlier if it was to be approved in time for the transfer window.  The rules are there for a purpose.  No point in having them if they need to be rushed through and corners are cut.   The added complication of having investors from China is not easily avoided.  Just one of those things.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 08, 2016, 07:37:43 PM
Just wondering could the new owners take the premiere league to court if the Albion get relegated on the basis of time it took to ratify deal. June the 24 th was the day that the deal was done and of to day it still hasn't been sanctioned by league, this has definitely hamstrung our transfer window. Any legal eagles out there have an opinion?

In a word - no.

If we are relegated this year then it should be blamed on ourselves.  Nobody else.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 08, 2016, 07:44:34 PM
Few moans a few posts ago re the Hull City takeover and the timescales, well it's collapsed...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: albion59 on September 08, 2016, 08:33:33 PM
Almost certainly based on the fact it's been considered. Which is a disgrace as their complaint had no legal basis.

Out for themselves. Not true Albion fans.
For once Jacko i 100% agree with you ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 08, 2016, 08:48:51 PM
Almost certainly based on the fact it's been considered. Which is a disgrace as their complaint had no legal basis.

Out for themselves. Not true Albion fans.

From the comments Jacko, it looks as though it's been batted straight back to the club, so I wouldn't think it's had any bearing on the length of time the authorities have taken. I would think the time has been more to do with the complexity of the consortium & the necessary audit trails & searches.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on September 08, 2016, 09:28:52 PM
It's been batted straight back because the takeover had absolutely no effect on the other shareholders

Before the takeover they could sell their shares to anyone who wanted to buy them

After the  takeover  they can sell their shares to anyone who wants to buy them

The only difference is that Jeremy went out and found someone to buy his shares. There is nothing stopping them from doing the same.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on September 08, 2016, 09:30:02 PM
Almost certainly based on the fact it's been considered. Which is a disgrace as their complaint had no legal basis.

Out for themselves. Not true Albion fans.

For the final time, as a shareholder and someone who goes to S4A meetings, Mr Reynolds doesn't represent the feelings of the group with regards his actions. The S4A members were not consulted, this wasn't discussed and not I or any other shareholders I know even informed this was his intention.

He has 30+ shares between him and his family. He could make over £500k off his shares if Mr Lai was forced to buy the rest of the shares (he doesn't have 90% so won't be forced to buy the remaining.) Mr Reynolds is only writing to the FA and other bodies for his OWN PERSONAL GAIN. The vast majority of S4A members like myself have one share that we don't want to sell. I'm drunk off that the actions of one individual, due to his position at S4A has tarred us all with the same brush.

So stop blaming shareholders, when you have one amongst you that on numerous occasions has explained this situation. He doesn't represent the core values of S4A which was set up to protect those of us who want to protect their single shareholdings. Look up the share ownership of him and his family yourself if you want any more proof this guy wants a pay day and is using his position to make it look like the rest of us care one jot about selling our shares.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 09, 2016, 12:12:51 AM
For the final time, as a shareholder and someone who goes to S4A meetings, Mr Reynolds doesn't represent the feelings of the group with regards his actions. The S4A members were not consulted, this wasn't discussed and not I or any other shareholders I know even informed this was his intention.

He has 30+ shares between him and his family. He could make over £500k off his shares if Mr Lai was forced to buy the rest of the shares (he doesn't have 90% so won't be forced to buy the remaining.) Mr Reynolds is only writing to the FA and other bodies for his OWN PERSONAL GAIN. The vast majority of S4A members like myself have one share that we don't want to sell. I'm drunk off that the actions of one individual, due to his position at S4A has tarred us all with the same brush.

So stop blaming shareholders, when you have one amongst you that on numerous occasions has explained this situation. He doesn't represent the core values of S4A which was set up to protect those of us who want to protect their single shareholdings. Look up the share ownership of him and his family yourself if you want any more proof this guy wants a pay day and is using his position to make it look like the rest of us care one jot about selling our shares.

Perhaps he shouldn't represent the group then mate?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 09, 2016, 01:34:08 AM
I don't think the Premier League would have spent too long on the Reynolds submission because the minority shareholders have a clearly defined set of rights under UK Company law and either the takeover proposal infringes them or it doesn't. Given that both parties to the takeover would have been advised by competent corporate lawyers this was never an issue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on September 09, 2016, 02:11:25 PM
I should think that one thing is for certain and that is Mr Lai and his co owners will not be happy or satisfied to just remain a bottom third of the prem club as it won't sell the brand very well in mainland china.investment come January window will see if they have any ambition for the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 10, 2016, 11:57:33 AM
What do you imagine his fee will be?
I can't imagine that Peace will be getting a fee, or that he needs/justifies having one with all the money he's raking in. It's probably lumped in as part of the agreement for buying his shares.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 10, 2016, 08:57:11 PM
I can't imagine that Peace will be getting a fee, or that he needs/justifies having one with all the money he's raking in. It's probably lumped in as part of the agreement for buying his shares.
peace and his cronies are what's wrong with our club . He's had no ambition since he squirmed his way in as chairman and the sooner he goes the better. Just hope the new owners have a little bit of ambition because we need it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Beefy on September 10, 2016, 09:08:09 PM
Peace has sold the club to Chinese investor Guochuan Lai and the new owner is expected to be officially installed at the end of next week.

Pulis is waiting to see how Lai approaches ownership. Keen to land more players in the transfer window, the Welshman would like more financial backing from the board.

Yesterday, he confirmed that the five signings Albion made in summer were not the marquee additions he wanted to make, and today he blamed the problems on the pitch to the struggles in the window.

"The Chinese are coming in next week so the club is being taken over next week," he said. "We’ll see what vision and what they want to do.


Read more at http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west...VLuHRpS.99
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 10, 2016, 09:21:23 PM
Pulis wont be able to buy much..The window has closed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on September 11, 2016, 01:49:43 PM
This guy is a total jerk. He has about £500k in personal, prospective share value and is using his position as Chairman to air his greivances that he's not able to sell them. Doesn't speak for the rest of the S4A members at all and wouldn't be surprised if we get rid of him.
Interestingly this morning Psalm there is a piece on an Albion fans page on facebook from a Neil Reynolds saying that Pulis is the most negative manager we`ve ever had and must go etc. Dont know enough to know if its the same one, the profile on f/b says he went to school in West Brom but now lives in Bedworth, but if it is it is highly hypocritical when it would appear his ridiculous challenge has been holding up the takeover for his own end
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on September 11, 2016, 03:11:25 PM
I wonder if Gouchan Lai will be attending the West Ham game after hopefully buying us Tuesday. I wonder if he will be offering the free drinks again. To be honest id sooner he sacked Pulis, we would all be a lot happier then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on September 11, 2016, 03:13:54 PM
Why does Peace have to stay on after the sale, wish he'd just p*ss off. Take Jenkins with him. I just think the longer he stays round, the more influence he will have over Williams and Lai. I wont Peace gone, and Jenkins, and either Garlick or Hammond, something isn't right with the recruitment, absolute shambles the window was.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on September 11, 2016, 03:16:33 PM
Hopefully by the West Ham game, were taken over, Pulis is gone, we have a statement from Mr Lai outlining his direction for the club, hopefully saying he intends to invest January. I would also like to see him say he's aiming to appoint a high profile manager to replace Pulis.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on September 14, 2016, 02:12:13 PM
Any further updates or press conferences planned?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on September 14, 2016, 05:18:31 PM
The media were reporting that it could be completed today, so knowing the Albion it will probably be some time next week.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 15, 2016, 01:30:17 PM
I hope that when the new guy takes over we do things a bit quicker.
This club is slower than a turd from a constipated Camel.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 15, 2016, 05:39:58 PM
Takeover completed

WEST Bromwich Albion Football Club confirms that the change of control announced in August 2016 has now been completed.

All preconditions to completion of the agreement have been satisfied resulting in the transfer of ownership of West Bromwich Albion Holdings Limited, the principal shareholder of the Club’s parent company, from Jeremy Peace to Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited, a company controlled by Guochuan Lai.

Guochuan Lai commented: “I’m delighted to complete the acquisition and to become the next steward of the Club. I would like to thank Jeremy Peace for his leadership over the last 15 years and for laying the strong foundations for the next stage of the Club’s development. I am excited to have the opportunity to support the Club’s Chairman, John Williams, and the team in building the Club over the years ahead.”

Jeremy Peace said: "It has been a tremendous privilege to lead the Albion. I am proud that 11 of my 15 seasons as Chairman have been spent in the Premier League whilst three others brought automatic promotion from the Championship. Guochuan Lai has been a supportive partner during the handover process and we have both done everything possible to move the Club forward. Guochuan, John Williams, my board colleagues, our staff and supporters have my very best wishes for the future."


http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/club-statement-west-brom-albion-takeover-guochuan-lai-3308509.aspx
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on September 15, 2016, 05:54:24 PM
Just waiting for the picture of JP holding the cheque aloft at the training ground   :P :P :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 15, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
So we've entered an uncertain new world, but it'll exciting nonetheless to see what things are done differently both on and off the pitch. I look forward to finding out in much more detail what the plans of the Mr Lai and his consortium are and I'm fascinated to see what changes will be made and how quickly. I guess the next thing we'll see is an announcement regarding the new senior management structure at the club.

Welcome and good luck to Guochuan Lai and also to his colleagues who are part of the takeover. Interesting times are ahead - let's hope they will see the club move forward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Doobuy on September 15, 2016, 06:12:47 PM
no mention of tony other than to thank him...hmmm
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 15, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
What we need to hear now is a strategy statement from Guochuan Lai, on how he expects the club to progress.

I'm expecting a long term improvement to a top 6 position, playing a globally attractive game, but a short term stability, to create a synergy within all sections of the football club.

In other words, long term, a head coach that will vastly improve us, but short term, if it aint broke, don't fix it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 15, 2016, 06:30:39 PM
This is one of the most momentous days in the history of the club and yet hardly anyone is posting. Where is everyone?!!  :)

I know today's announcement is effectively only rubber-stamping what was first made public in August, but there were a fair few who thought it would collapse before it was finalised. Well it didn't and a new era dawns!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 15, 2016, 06:31:52 PM
In other words, long term, a head coach that will vastly improve us, but short term, if it aint broke, don't fix it.
Well, in my view, it is broke and needs fixing asap.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on September 15, 2016, 06:36:51 PM
This is one of the most momentous days in the history of the club and yet hardly anyone is posting. Where is everyone?!!  :)

I know today's announcement is effectively only rubber-stamping what was first made public in August, but there were a fair few who thought it would collapse before it was finalised. Well it didn't and a new era dawns!

Most people are probably frantically refreshing Twitter waiting for the news that Lai has disposed of our cap wearing friend ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dont ask me to choose luv on September 15, 2016, 06:37:41 PM
This is one of the most momentous days in the history of the club and yet hardly anyone is posting. Where is everyone?!!  :)

I know today's announcement is effectively only rubber-stamping what was first made public in August, but there were a fair few who thought it would collapse before it was finalised. Well it didn't and a new era dawns!

Yes & I've got the ticket office number on speed dial for when the next momentous announcement is made.

Huānyíng Mr Lai Bōyīn Bōyīn
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbawill on September 15, 2016, 06:44:51 PM
Welp, we take a gulp and jump off the cliff. Will our new wings carry us to new heights or will we end up a sorry sight struggling to swim in the sea below? Only time will tell.

I'd like to thank Mr Peace for all the work he's put in to establish us as a Premier League club. His decisions haven't always been universally popular but I truly believe he's always done what he believes is best for the club.

Onwards and upwards with our new Chinese friends! Here's to many successes under Mr Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bry on September 15, 2016, 06:45:53 PM


I'm expecting a long term improvement to a top 6 position, playing a globally attractive game, but a short term stability, to create a synergy within all sections of the football club.


I think you are sadly going to be disappointed if you are hoping for this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 15, 2016, 06:53:58 PM
A Chinese for me tonight. A change was so so desperately needed. :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 15, 2016, 07:03:43 PM
I'll welcome new owner's but I'd like to see a new direction mapped out for our club which involves strong investment in first team to push club to next level. with foundations laid down to grow fan base home and abroad, not just using sticky plasters when major surgery is required as we have been used to under Peace. Oh and investment in stadium ie increased capacity
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 15, 2016, 07:05:11 PM
A lot of people on here and especially on social media have built themselves up for a series of announcements after this news came through.

Can't see it myself, a muted announcement on twitter. Official Statement on the club website.

Lai gave his vision for the future when the deal was announced... Business as usual.

As for TP, honestly don't think he's going anywhere. Despite tensions running high among fans, if the deal was rubber stamped and they immediately sacked the manager then it would be Cellino/Venky-esque from a PR point of view. That's not how these people operate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 15, 2016, 07:06:26 PM
Well, in my view, it is broke and needs fixing asap.

Hopefully he sees it the same as you, but I think we'll see evolution, as opposed to revolution, & I'm not expecting any immediate changes.

I would like to see Sissoko & Chamakh signed. Personally, I think Sissoko's almost a given, considering he has recently been playing in China.

Then I think Pulis will be judged on results, & probably on a game by game basis.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 15, 2016, 07:07:08 PM
I think you are sadly going to be disappointed if you are hoping for this.

why?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 15, 2016, 07:10:28 PM
A lot of people on here and especially on social media have built themselves up for a series of announcements after this news came through.

Can't see it myself, a muted announcement on twitter. Official Statement on the club website.

Lai gave his vision for the future when the deal was announced... Business as usual.

As for TP, honestly don't think he's going anywhere. Despite tensions running high among fans, if the deal was rubber stamped and they immediately sacked the manager then it would be Cellino/Venky-esque from a PR point of view. That's not how these people operate.
feelings are running high at the minute with the fan's especially after the transfer fiasco and the slow start to season. Owner's need to come out and  show us where they stand on all aspects of club .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on September 15, 2016, 07:21:15 PM
I think you are sadly going to be disappointed if you are hoping for this.
.  nothing better than looking on the bright side . Doom and Gloom ,Doom and Gloom
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 15, 2016, 07:30:32 PM
.  nothing better than looking on the bright side . Doom and Gloom ,Doom and Gloom

Yes I know, it's like spending thousands on a new car only to be told by your grumpy neighbour, that he doesn't like the colour.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on September 15, 2016, 07:32:04 PM
Takeover completed

WEST Bromwich Albion Football Club confirms that the change of control announced in August 2016 has now been completed.

All preconditions to completion of the agreement have been satisfied resulting in the transfer of ownership of West Bromwich Albion Holdings Limited, the principal shareholder of the Club’s parent company, from Jeremy Peace to Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited, a company controlled by Guochuan Lai.

Guochuan Lai commented: “I’m delighted to complete the acquisition and to become the next steward of the Club. I would like to thank Jeremy Peace for his leadership over the last 15 years and for laying the strong foundations for the next stage of the Club’s development. I am excited to have the opportunity to support the Club’s Chairman, John Williams, and the team in building the Club over the years ahead.”

Jeremy Peace said: "It has been a tremendous privilege to lead the Albion. I am proud that 11 of my 15 seasons as Chairman have been spent in the Premier League whilst three others brought automatic promotion from the Championship. Guochuan Lai has been a supportive partner during the handover process and we have both done everything possible to move the Club forward. Guochuan, John Williams, my board colleagues, our staff and supporters have my very best wishes for the future."


http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/club-statement-west-brom-albion-takeover-guochuan-lai-3308509.aspx

Welcome Mr Lai & here's to a bright future for you your company & we Baggies
I'm sure lots will beg you to go for it straight from the off but for me i hope that you have a vision of the way you wish to see us play & implement that vision to the pitch

1- Dull & safe. Then keep it has it is (please say it's not 1)

2- bring in 2-3 players in January that can play a more entertaining style that can grow with each window, in that case get a new manager has well ( i like 2)

3- Go throw loads of ££££ at the squad & try to run before you can jog. ( not for me)
Again Welcome Mr Lia
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 15, 2016, 07:52:33 PM
I certainly feel that Gouchaun Lai's intentions were steady as it goes through the rest of the season and given how quickly other foreign investors have come to grief in a whirlwind of ill considered decisions there was merit to the approach. 

Unfortunately events seem to be moving at a pace that won't allow that approach with regard to the current fractious relationship between Head Coach and board which is mirrored in a fan base which is deeply unhappy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on September 15, 2016, 08:01:36 PM
Welcome Guochuan Lai, thank you Jeremy Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 15, 2016, 08:04:12 PM
I'm expecting a long term improvement to a top 6 position, playing a globally attractive game, but a short term stability, to create a synergy within all sections of the football club.

Top six? Maybe in the championship. That's one of the funniest things I've read on here for a while. The best Albion can hope for is to do a Stoke or Southampton, and even then your only ever one bad season away from the drop.

The new owner hasn't committed to putting any money into the club and there is no evidence he has to assets to do that even if he had the will. His public statements to date have indicated the exact opposite. Business as usual means no external cash input. Congratulations to Jeremy who no doubt will enjoy himself as a very rich tax exile.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 15, 2016, 08:05:53 PM
This is one of the most momentous days in the history of the club and yet hardly anyone is posting. Where is everyone?!!  :)

I know today's announcement is effectively only rubber-stamping what was first made public in August, but there were a fair few who thought it would collapse before it was finalised. Well it didn't and a new era dawns!

I think more people would have been excited had the window not closed. As it is we have to stay as we are until January at the earliest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on September 15, 2016, 08:08:29 PM
Pleased it's completed.........now let's see some different ideas and a degree of ambition please.

Jeremy and Mark just close the door on your way out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on September 15, 2016, 08:27:40 PM
Glad its done and dusted and we can start the new era.  JP did a great job but lacked the financial clout to take us to the next level.  He's had his critics and I certainly think he could have pushed the boat out a tad more in his time but overall he has done a good job.

Onto Mr Lai and hopefully he can do what he has said.  By keeping the club in the Premier League and making us attractive back in China can only mean investment in the team which it badly needs.

Lets see what he is made of. COYB
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on September 15, 2016, 09:55:22 PM
Top six? Maybe in the championship. That's one of the funniest things I've read on here for a while. The best Albion can hope for is to do a Stoke or Southampton, and even then your only ever one bad season away from the drop.

The new owner hasn't committed to putting any money into the club and there is no evidence he has to assets to do that even if he had the will. His public statements to date have indicated the exact opposite. Business as usual means no external cash input. Congratulations to Jeremy who no doubt will enjoy himself as a very rich tax exile.

Well at least start with some optimism, how can you possibly know what Lai will do with his investment. The name implies you invest to gain a return, a poor return will be achieved if he thinks like you, but £175m says otherwise :D :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on September 15, 2016, 10:03:46 PM
Mr Lai has to sustain our premiership membership and grow the club if he has any chance of selling the Albion brand in China or he's going to be making substantial losses if we drop or don't improve our entertainment value,at present there is no entertainment value at all
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 16, 2016, 02:36:51 AM
Now that takeover has been completed can anyone give insight into our new owner or owner's and what if any financial muscle he or they have?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 16, 2016, 02:41:07 AM
If these owners are only in it for business reasons on 170 million what sort of yield would be acceptable to them annually, if they keep to the Peace model of limited investments
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on September 16, 2016, 06:01:08 AM
If these owners are only in it for business reasons on 170 million what sort of yield would be acceptable to them annually, if they keep to the Peace model of limited investments

It's something that's crossed my mind on a few occasions. How is he ever going to get his money back or make any kind of profit from West Brom?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on September 16, 2016, 06:25:38 AM
We have to hope its by turning us into a successful club and therefore marketable in China where they can make their money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on September 16, 2016, 07:31:34 AM
It's something that's crossed my mind on a few occasions. How is he ever going to get his money back or make any kind of profit from West Brom?

China has a population of almost 1.5 billion. That's heading towards 20% of the worlds population.
Now if Mr Lai can market the club to any extent out there, shift two or three million shirts he's already got a return on his investment.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on September 16, 2016, 07:44:53 AM
It's something that's crossed my mind on a few occasions. How is he ever going to get his money back or make any kind of profit from West Brom?
he could put the ticket prices up as much as he likes for a start. :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BRIAN on September 16, 2016, 07:54:34 AM
Maybe he is not in it for profit. He could want it for the same reasons people buy paintings or antiques-for pleasure. Not everyone chases money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: collins101 on September 16, 2016, 08:19:41 AM
Apparently he's just made a £2billion investment in the city centre, whether that's Birmingham City Centre or in China who knows..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 16, 2016, 08:32:26 AM
Stating the obvious but it looks like our tone is going to have a chat with  'the chinese'

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/1793021/tony-pulis-faces-showdown-talks-after-snub-by-new-west-brom-owner-guochuan-lai/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 16, 2016, 08:34:21 AM
How does Guochaun Lai make money on an investment of £175m?

Firstly from reports it isn't clear whether that is what he has paid for the Peace shares or the implied value of the club including the 12% minority stake, if it is just for the Peace shares it values the club at £198m which in terms of price to turnover is roughly what Everton were sold for earlier this year. If the is the case the valuation is at the very edge of any rational investment.

Traditionally there are two ways of making money from a football club grow the club and sell it at a profit or run it at a profit and take a dividend.

Peace has taken the buy cheap build and sell route but it is equally what the Swansea and Palace ownership have done. The biggest growth step is promotion to the Premier League once there the only significant growth in income generated by success on the pitch is Champions League football. Other than it is the hope that the TV revenue continues to grow thus pushing up the club's earnings and by implication it's value. However the rate of growth has to slow the media companies coffers are not limitless and they have to justify their commercial decisions to skeptical institutional investors. 

Alternatively run it at a profit and take a dividend like Man United, aside from them nobody else does that because for the rest and particularly for a club like Albion it takes all our income to keep us in the Premier League. The biggest single threat to Lai's investment is relegation and at the price paid that would wipe out anything up to 80% of it's value overnight.

However in Lai's case there might be a third and potentially even more lucrative alternative. Given the Chinese Leadership's obsession with football the £175m might open up deals within China and abroad that dwarf anything that the club could ever hope to generate. The Chinese dimension is something that I don't fully understand nor can quantify it but  Guochaun Lai does and that is probably makes a middle of the road football club from the Black Country worth anything up to £200m to him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 16, 2016, 08:45:36 AM
Top six? Maybe in the championship. That's one of the funniest things I've read on here for a while. The best Albion can hope for is to do a Stoke or Southampton, and even then your only ever one bad season away from the drop.

The new owner hasn't committed to putting any money into the club and there is no evidence he has to assets to do that even if he had the will. His public statements to date have indicated the exact opposite. Business as usual means no external cash input. Congratulations to Jeremy who no doubt will enjoy himself as a very rich tax exile.

Perhaps you have'nt understood the complexity of this deal, as far as I can see, it's not a "wealthy individual buys football club" deal, it's a deal, encouraged by the Chinese Government, to promote football in China. There are all sorts of opportunities for all sorts of people, if this succeeds. IMO it's a Jeremy Peace strategy, but on a much grander scale.
Again in my opinion, top six is a distinct probability, but it will be by evolution, not revolution
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 16, 2016, 08:58:21 AM
Sorry but it's delusional to believe that the top six is realistic aim. If you haven't noticed there are plenty of rivals who are already very rich and successful and have much more pulling power than Albion.

We are never going to be above the pecking order of Utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Everton or Liverpool. That's the top seven gone already. That leaves us battling it out amongst the other twelve clubs. Our range is 8th to 20th with 14th about par.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cornishbaggie on September 16, 2016, 09:00:39 AM
Personally can't get excited about the new era until Pulis goes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on September 16, 2016, 09:02:59 AM
I too can't believe top six is a realistic aim, be it in 3, 5 or 10 years.  For me our aim should be Europa league and FA Cup Wins
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 16, 2016, 09:04:37 AM
Sorry but it's delusional to believe that the top six is realistic aim. If you haven't noticed there are plenty of rivals who are already very rich and successful and have much more pulling power than Albion.

We are never going to be above the pecking order of Utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Everton or Liverpool. That's the top seven gone already. That leaves us battling it out amongst the other twelve clubs. Our range is 8th to 20th with 14th about par.


Why do you feel the need to have a cryptic tone to your argument? Is your opinion any more valid than mine?
I believe there will be more funds available than you do, fair enough. You might be right, but so might I. We'll just have to wait & see.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on September 16, 2016, 09:05:06 AM
Stating the obvious but it looks like our tone is going to have a chat with  'the chinese'

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/1793021/tony-pulis-faces-showdown-talks-after-snub-by-new-west-brom-owner-guochuan-lai/

Is there a taxi outside reception ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on September 16, 2016, 09:10:35 AM
Perhaps you have'nt understood the complexity of this deal, as far as I can see, it's not a "wealthy individual buys football club" deal, it's a deal, encouraged by the Chinese Government, to promote football in China. There are all sorts of opportunities for all sorts of people, if this succeeds. IMO it's a Jeremy Peace strategy, but on a much grander scale.
Again in my opinion, top six is a distinct probability, but it will be by evolution, not revolution
Agree John, but we all know that you cannot survive without investment in the squad. My hope would be that we will see a significant increase in what we commit in terms of fees and wages, in order to attract better quality. I also think that, if Williams raises concerns regarding Pulis restricting our opportunities in the transfer market, we will see a new head coach sooner rather than later.
The next 6 months are key to the long term plan and we MUST stay up, if that means we are stuck with TP (I don't think it should), sobeit.
Exciting times indeed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 16, 2016, 09:11:37 AM
I too can't believe top six is a realistic aim, be it in 3, 5 or 10 years.  For me our aim should be Europa league and FA Cup Wins

With the greatest of respect, don't you have to be in the top 6 to secure a Europa League place? If, as I suspect, this is Chinese Government driven, then Europa league is a given. They will want to demonstrate the a Chinese owned team can compete with some of the best in the world.

I certainly expect a top half finish this season, & possibly a decent run in the FA cup.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: easyrider on September 16, 2016, 09:14:18 AM
leicester proved its possible to break into top six last season  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 16, 2016, 09:15:22 AM
Agree John, but we all know that you cannot survive without investment in the squad. My hope would be that we will see a significant increase in what we commit in terms of fees and wages, in order to attract better quality. I also think that, if Williams raises concerns regarding Pulis restricting our opportunities in the transfer market, we will see a new head coach sooner rather than later.
The next 6 months are key to the long term plan and we MUST stay up, if that means we are stuck with TP (I don't think it should), sobeit.
Exciting times indeed.

I don't think we will be stuck with TP, but the new owners won't want to be seen as a hire & fire outfit. I think I said before, he's on a "final warning", be interesting to see how he responds.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on September 16, 2016, 09:23:26 AM
Agree John, but we all know that you cannot survive without investment in the squad. My hope would be that we will see a significant increase in what we commit in terms of fees and wages, in order to attract better quality. I also think that, if Williams raises concerns regarding Pulis restricting our opportunities in the transfer market, we will see a new head coach sooner rather than later.
The next 6 months are key to the long term plan and we MUST stay up, if that means we are stuck with TP (I don't think it should), sobeit.
Exciting times indeed.
Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was Beijing so don't expect massive steps this season. The new regime will be happy with finishing 17th and anything above that will be a bonus. As for TP no one knows what will happen not even the press. Mr Lai may decide to keep him for this season but if he does he can expect a instant dislike from some fans. Like Setteefeet says exciting times ahead.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on September 16, 2016, 09:33:49 AM
Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was Beijing so don't expect massive steps this season. The new regime will be happy with finishing 17th and anything above that will be a bonus. As for TP no one knows what will happen not even the press. Mr Lai may decide to keep him for this season but if he does he can expect a instant dislike from some fans. Like Setteefeet says exciting times ahead.
Agree, but relegation is an absolute disaster to him, so, if we are bottom 3 come January, he will have no option but to act. If we are relatively safe then yes stability will be the key and that means, unfortunately, that TP will still be around but, if he keeps us up, I will not complain.
I'm just not as convinced as some that TP guarantees survival and if the danger signs are there come November then the axe should fall, as he will almost certainly have lost any fans he had left, and the atmosphere will be toxic. Not what you want at the beginning of a new dawn.
What today brings, for the 1st time in quite a while, is hope  :) Survive this season at all costs and then look toward a more long term plan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 16, 2016, 09:56:31 AM
Perhaps you have'nt understood the complexity of this deal, as far as I can see, it's not a "wealthy individual buys football club" deal, it's a deal, encouraged by the Chinese Government, to promote football in China. There are all sorts of opportunities for all sorts of people, if this succeeds. IMO it's a Jeremy Peace strategy, but on a much grander scale.
Again in my opinion, top six is a distinct probability, but it will be by evolution, not revolution

Totally agree John, top six is a distinct possibility. He hasn't spent £175m to lose it. He has acquired a club and has the ability to expose it high profile to a hungry audience - China. The selling point will be that its Chinese owned [whether we like it or not] so the patriotic nation will hopefully get behind it, just like Leicester and Thailand. Another point is that  'he' doesn't own the club, he is just the syndicate representative, albeit a very wealthy one.

I for one am pleased he is not coming out with silly statements and promises of being as good and big as Barcelona in 5 years time [now 4 1/2 - how's that going 'doctor'?]

Anyway, the important thing here is, does Jim agree with you????  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: don1thedon on September 16, 2016, 10:11:58 AM
Welcome to 'The Baggies' Guochaun Lai, I'm really hoping you bring fresh optimism and relative success to our much loved club!

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WestBromJim on September 16, 2016, 10:13:20 AM
Totally agree John, top six is a distinct possibility. He hasn't spent £175m to lose it. He has acquired a club and has the ability to expose it high profile to a hungry audience - China. The selling point will be that its Chinese owned [whether we like it or not] so the patriotic nation will hopefully get behind it, just like Leicester and Thailand. Another point is that  'he' doesn't own the club, he is just the syndicate representative, albeit a very wealthy one.

I for one am pleased he is not coming out with silly statements and promises of being as good and big as Barcelona in 5 years time [now 4 1/2 - how's that going 'doctor'?]

Anyway, the important thing here is, does Jim agree with you????  :D

Of course I do!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 16, 2016, 10:15:03 AM
Of course I do!!

You've let me down Jim...... ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on September 16, 2016, 10:52:59 AM
With the greatest of respect, don't you have to be in the top 6 to secure a Europa League place? If, as I suspect, this is Chinese Government driven, then Europa league is a given. They will want to demonstrate the a Chinese owned team can compete with some of the best in the world.

I certainly expect a top half finish this season, & possibly a decent run in the FA cup.

No, you can qualify from 7th position and from winning the cup
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Morany on September 16, 2016, 10:54:32 AM
New era begins, hopefully the capped one will stop using 'The chinese' in his pressers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on September 16, 2016, 10:58:55 AM
New era begins, hopefully the capped one will stop using 'The chinese' in his pressers.

http://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/tony-pulis-does-not-expect-much-change-following-west-brom-takeover-1-8129657 (http://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/tony-pulis-does-not-expect-much-change-following-west-brom-takeover-1-8129657)

Well in the article where he explains nothing will change and that he hasnt spoken to Lai yet he does still say Chinese at one point.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: don1thedon on September 16, 2016, 11:01:13 AM
I suspect many on here can see the outlook for a brighter long term option but our immediate challenge is whether TP can muster enough from both himself & the troops to offset what is starting to look a dreary & frustrating season. I can't see Mr Lai being happy to allow a toxic atmosphere to continue to grow if one of his objectives is "to promote football in China".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 16, 2016, 11:05:16 AM
http://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/tony-pulis-does-not-expect-much-change-following-west-brom-takeover-1-8129657 (http://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/tony-pulis-does-not-expect-much-change-following-west-brom-takeover-1-8129657)

Well in the article where he explains nothing will change and that he hasnt spoken to Lai yet he does still say Chinese at one point.

The worrying thing about that article is that TP still thinks everything revolves around him. Think that speech has shortened his "shelf life" quite a bit
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cornishbaggie on September 16, 2016, 11:21:33 AM
Sorry but it's delusional to believe that the top six is realistic aim. If you haven't noticed there are plenty of rivals who are already very rich and successful and have much more pulling power than Albion.

We are never going to be above the pecking order of Utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Everton or Liverpool. That's the top seven gone already. That leaves us battling it out amongst the other twelve clubs. Our range is 8th to 20th with 14th about par.

Utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Everton or Liverpool. That's the top seven gone already.

Last year's positions

Chelsea - 10th
Everton - 11th
Liverpool - 8th

and you conveniently forget Leicester.

Come on, last season gave every club in the League hope they they too can win it.

Why can't we do a Leicester??

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on September 16, 2016, 11:45:46 AM
Utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Everton or Liverpool. That's the top seven gone already.

Last year's positions

Chelsea - 10th
Everton - 11th
Liverpool - 8th

and you conveniently forget Leicester.

Come on, last season gave every club in the League hope they they too can win it.

Why can't we do a Leicester??
We did in 1919/20, had you forgot. lol
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbawill on September 16, 2016, 02:44:18 PM
Utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Everton or Liverpool. That's the top seven gone already.

Last year's positions

Chelsea - 10th
Everton - 11th
Liverpool - 8th

and you conveniently forget Leicester.

Come on, last season gave every club in the League hope they they too can win it.

Why can't we do a Leicester??

Because Leicester's season was a freak and a fluke, with so many lucky things going for them. They did fantastically well and fair play to them but in all likelihood we won't see the like of that again. We can hope and dream but it's essentially unrealistic.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on September 16, 2016, 03:26:43 PM
Because Leicester's season was a freak and a fluke, with so many lucky things going for them. They did fantastically well and fair play to them but in all likelihood we won't see the like of that again. We can hope and dream but it's essentially unrealistic.

Sorry but I don't buy this freak and fluke everyone keeps throwing about

You cant fluke an entire season....you earn it

What it shows is that with all the right ingredients you can compete
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 16, 2016, 03:33:15 PM
Sorry but I don't buy this freak and fluke everyone keeps throwing about

You cant fluke an entire season....you earn it

What it shows is that with all the right ingredients you can compete

The right ingredients involved Chelsea Manchester United Manchester City and Liverpool massively underachieving. One or two perhaps but all 4? That's why it was a fluke. Leicester did more than enough and deserved the title.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbawill on September 16, 2016, 04:08:04 PM
Sorry but I don't buy this freak and fluke everyone keeps throwing about

You cant fluke an entire season....you earn it

What it shows is that with all the right ingredients you can compete

Leicester absolutely earned it, but it was a freak season in many ways. Since 2000/01, there has only been one title winning side to have earned fewer points. Every other title challenger had a shocking season last year, plus Leicester's players virtually all had the best season of their career right at the same time.

Leicester deserved the title, of course, but for that to happen required a very fortuitous series of events. Well done to them for getting themselves to a place where they could take advantage of that but I think people need to temper their expectations a little.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on September 16, 2016, 04:56:15 PM
Totally agree John, top six is a distinct possibility. He hasn't spent £175m to lose it. He has acquired a club and has the ability to expose it high profile to a hungry audience - China. The selling point will be that its Chinese owned [whether we like it or not] so the patriotic nation will hopefully get behind it, just like Leicester and Thailand. Another point is that  'he' doesn't own the club, he is just the syndicate representative, albeit a very wealthy one.

I for one am pleased he is not coming out with silly statements and promises of being as good and big as Barcelona in 5 years time [now 4 1/2 - how's that going 'doctor'?]

Anyway, the important thing here is, does Jim agree with you????  :D
Depends on what your timescale is. Maybe in the next 10 years. Maybe but unlikely
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on September 16, 2016, 05:08:18 PM
I actually think the extra money will actually make the premier league more open and increase the chances of other teams being able to "do a Leicester".

Yes the big boys will get even more money, but they already have all the best players. So no matter how much money they spend they are replacing a top player with another top player. Therefore they  improve bu=t not by very much.

For the lesser clubs, the extra money gives them the opportunity to jump on the bandwagon and also buy top players. So the lesser teams can now replace a few journeymen with top players. So they improve by more than the big boys & gradually close the gap. As lesser teams buy better more consistent players they can now compete much better with the big boys.

We just need to hope that under the new ownership we can take the plunge and get onto the bandwagon
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on September 16, 2016, 05:30:43 PM
I actually think the extra money will actually make the premier league more open and increase the chances of other teams being able to "do a Leicester".

Yes the big boys will get even more money, but they already have all the best players. So no matter how much money they spend they are replacing a top player with another top player. Therefore they  improve bu=t not by very much.

For the lesser clubs, the extra money gives them the opportunity to jump on the bandwagon and also buy top players. So the lesser teams can now replace a few journeymen with top players. So they improve by more than the big boys & gradually close the gap. As lesser teams buy better more consistent players they can now compete much better with the big boys.

We just need to hope that under the new ownership we can take the plunge and get onto the bandwagon

Unfortunately we are still looking at journeymen - players of no fixed abode , Chamakh, Sissoko and now Muntari
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 16, 2016, 05:47:21 PM
Unfortunately we are still looking at journeymen - players of no fixed abode , Chamakh, Sissoko and now Muntari

Don't think we've got a lot of choice at the moment, all 3 are decent players, think we'll take them on short term contracts, just to see us through between now & January. TBH I'm surprised we haven't signed Sissoko today, so he can have a run out tomorrow.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 16, 2016, 06:37:31 PM
Unfortunately we are still looking at journeymen - players of no fixed abode , Chamakh, Sissoko and now Muntari

Journeymen yes, but rather a step-up on the likes of Andrews and Gardner who have been our previous nearest to "journeymen"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on September 16, 2016, 08:04:29 PM
The brand of West Bromwich Albion and by brand I mean the history, association and ethos is severely hampered with Pulis in charge, in my opinion.

I can't be the only one to have noticed since Tony became the manager we have ceased to be the baggies etc but are more commonly referred to as Tony Pulis' Albion or as Tony Pulis' team.

This is bad for the Albion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 16, 2016, 08:46:54 PM
Because Leicester's season was a freak and a fluke, with so many lucky things going for them. They did fantastically well and fair play to them but in all likelihood we won't see the like of that again. We can hope and dream but it's essentially unrealistic.
Disagree
Leeds,Blackburn , Leicester , it's not a fluke you just need investment ,good management and belief
Southampton and Everton both have very capable teams and could do it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 16, 2016, 10:04:43 PM
Disagree
Leeds,Blackburn , Leicester , it's not a fluke you just need investment ,good management and belief
Southampton and Everton both have very capable teams and could do it.

Leeds won the league the year before it became the Premier League, and Blackburn just 2 years into the life of the Premier League.  Impossible to compare it with Leicester winning it on 2016 when the financial gap was much greater than it was 24 and 21 years ago.

You are right though.  A club like Southampton or Everton (or maybe West Ham) could "do a Leicester"

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: collins101 on September 16, 2016, 10:49:27 PM
I would have thought he was referring to when Leeds were playing champions league football which is a bit more recent. It can be done, we finished 8th after a dire 2nd half of the season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 16, 2016, 11:05:01 PM
I would have thought he was referring to when Leeds were playing champions league football which is a bit more recent. It can be done, we finished 8th after a dire 2nd half of the season.

Ah yes - understood.  Yes Leeds played Champions League in 2000-01 and UEFA Cup a year later. 

I still find it astonishing that nobody has bought them and managed to turn them around.  Massive potential and a strong global brand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 16, 2016, 11:53:26 PM
Ah yes - understood.  Yes Leeds played Champions League in 2000-01 and UEFA Cup a year later. 

I still find it astonishing that nobody has bought them and managed to turn them around.  Massive potential and a strong global brand.
I agree. Something weird there. It almost seems like nobody serious wants to take it on. Their fans are everywhere.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 17, 2016, 12:09:18 AM
I agree. Something weird there. It almost seems like nobody serious wants to take it on. Their fans are everywhere.
Fans everywhere , club all over the place..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 17, 2016, 08:46:19 AM
It is truly remarkable that a serious overseas investor will spend £175m on us and not even consider spending a less than a third of that to get Leeds United. That tells you two things the Premier League TV revenues are worth a lot more than a big fan base and Leeds United is a mess and has been for more than a decade.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 17, 2016, 08:51:55 AM
It is truly remarkable that a serious overseas investor will spend £175m on us and not even consider spending a less than a third of that to get Leeds United. That tells you two things the Premier League TV revenues are worth a lot more than a big fan base and Leeds United is a mess and has been for more than a decade.

Are they still carrying the "Dreary O'Leary sh*t or bust" debt?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 17, 2016, 11:58:32 AM
Are they still carrying the "Dreary O'Leary sh*t or bust" debt?

No the administration cleared that out but it took it's toll. Firstly they no longer own Elland Road nor their training ground. Secondly it left them at the mercy of some absolute chancers as owners Ken Bates GFH Capital and the daddy of them all Cellino. Each of them have degraded the club to point it is just a large body of ill tempered fans clinging on to past glories, there are 91 better football clubs to investment in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 17, 2016, 01:12:54 PM
No the administration cleared that out but it took it's toll. Firstly they no longer own Elland Road nor their training ground. Secondly it left them at the mercy of some absolute chancers as owners Ken Bates GFH Capital and the daddy of them all Cellino. Each of them have degraded the club to point it is just a large body of ill tempered fans clinging on to past glories, there are 91 better football clubs to investment in.


On the other hand, if me & you had a fiver each, might be a decent investment opportunity, even if it's only for the scrap metal when they demolish Elland Road  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on September 17, 2016, 08:32:27 PM
Well a great start to the Gouchan Lai/John Williams era a 4-2 Home win in a game we needed to win. Hopefully more of the same next weekend at the Britania against Stoke ??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on September 17, 2016, 08:42:38 PM
Ok Id like an over all response, are all West Brom fans happy Lai is operating from China and leaving all the business side of it to Williams. I for one would sooner he be over here and dealing with the day to day stuff with Williams. Peace still being here as an advisor still annoys me. Its like decisions have to be passed between two people before Mr Lai agrees don't you think ??.

I just hope me see more of Mr Lai than the Villa saw of Randy Lerner. I hope we don't have a silent owner, Villa fans were happy with Lerner to start with, then he never bothered going to games, the pee poor 22,209 attendance today cant have encouraged him, mind the result was fantastic. I hope he comes over before the year ends. Preferably near Christmas. Free drinks and pies all round please Mr Lai.

January is the time we will see if he and Williams mean business, after a shocking last window.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 17, 2016, 09:55:45 PM
Ok Id like an over all response, are all West Brom fans happy Lai is operating from China and leaving all the business side of it to Williams. I for one would sooner he be over here and dealing with the day to day stuff with Williams. Peace still being here as an advisor still annoys me. Its like decisions have to be passed between two people before Mr Lai agrees don't you think ??.

I just hope me see more of Mr Lai than the Villa saw of Randy Lerner. I hope we don't have a silent owner, Villa fans were happy with Lerner to start with, then he never bothered going to games, the pee poor 22,209 attendance today cant have encouraged him, mind the result was fantastic. I hope he comes over before the year ends. Preferably near Christmas. Free drinks and pies all round please Mr Lai.

January is the time we will see if he and Williams mean business, after a shocking last window.

It depends if Lai wants to micro manage everything from China this would present a problem however providing that he delegates sufficient authority to the Williams there is no particular reason for him to be constantly involved in the day to day running of club.

In point of fact it is Williams who has experience of running a football club Lai doesn't, quite where the line is drawn between the operational management and ownership remains to be seen. My hope is we don't have a hyper active owner but one that sets a strategic direction and lets local management with get on with delivering it and judges them on results and I don't mean in knee jerk manner of we won today so everything is wonderful or we lost so let's sack everyone.

We don't know what we have got yet nor will we until we see events unfold over the coming months, this time next year we will probably be in a much better idea of how the new owners will operate. 

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 17, 2016, 10:12:20 PM
It depends if Lai wants to micro manage everything from China this would present a problem however providing that he delegates sufficient authority to the Williams there is no particular reason for him to be constantly involved in the day to day running of club.

In point of fact it is Williams who has experience of running a football club Lai doesn't, quite where the line is drawn between the operational management and ownership remains to be seen. My hope is we don't have a hyper active owner but one that sets a strategic direction and lets local management with get on with delivering it and judges them on results and I don't mean in knee jerk manner of we won today so everything is wonderful or we lost so let's sack everyone.

We don't know what we have got yet nor will we until we see events unfold over the coming months, this time next year we will probably be in a much better idea of how the new owners will operate.

I agree 100% with this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on September 18, 2016, 11:48:47 AM
It depends if Lai wants to micro manage everything from China this would present a problem however providing that he delegates sufficient authority to the Williams there is no particular reason for him to be constantly involved in the day to day running of club.

In point of fact it is Williams who has experience of running a football club Lai doesn't, quite where the line is drawn between the operational management and ownership remains to be seen. My hope is we don't have a hyper active owner but one that sets a strategic direction and lets local management with get on with delivering it and judges them on results and I don't mean in knee jerk manner of we won today so everything is wonderful or we lost so let's sack everyone.

We don't know what we have got yet nor will we until we see events unfold over the coming months, this time next year we will probably be in a much better idea of how the new owners will operate.

Bang on. Lai is the banker. John Williams is the man to get things done, he will be making the decisions according to the budget he is given from the owner(s).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on September 18, 2016, 09:08:12 PM
God help us with Williams in charge. Already came out with a bullsh@t statement re transfers, wasn't he also there when the venkys rolled into town ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on September 18, 2016, 09:12:57 PM
God help us with Williams in charge. Already came out with a bullsh@t statement re transfers, wasn't he also there when the venkys rolled into town ?

He was, but he quit after the Venky's decided to sack Allardyce in November 2010, despite the previous season them getting to the semi-finals of the League Cup and finishing in the Top 10 the season before
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on September 18, 2016, 09:14:28 PM
God help us with Williams in charge. Already came out with a bullsh@t statement re transfers, wasn't he also there when the venkys rolled into town ?

Williams has done a good job over the years. Let's hope he has the freedom to do so with us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on September 18, 2016, 09:16:45 PM
God help us with Williams in charge. Already came out with a bullsh@t statement re transfers, wasn't he also there when the venkys rolled into town ?
Not a great start but let's judge him under the new regime .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on September 18, 2016, 11:54:59 PM
No the administration cleared that out but it took it's toll. Firstly they no longer own Elland Road nor their training ground. Secondly it left them at the mercy of some absolute chancers as owners Ken Bates GFH Capital and the daddy of them all Cellino. Each of them have degraded the club to point it is just a large body of ill tempered fans clinging on to past glories, there are 91 better football clubs to investment in.

Good post, it's a bit off-topic but do you know who owns the ground and training facilities? And if so, how did they aquire them, at a bargain price I assume?

Anyway, I'd be happy to see Lai as predominantly the banker...just look down the road at the Villa and their new 'hands on owner' to see how it can pan out. Lai seems to understand that Williams is a safe bet and is letting him make the decisions which I think is sensible.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 19, 2016, 07:08:31 AM
Good post, it's a bit off-topic but do you know who owns the ground and training facilities? And if so, how did they aquire them, at a bargain price I assume?

Anyway, I'd be happy to see Lai as predominantly the banker...just look down the road at the Villa and their new 'hands on owner' to see how it can pan out. Lai seems to understand that Williams is a safe bet and is letting him make the decisions which I think is sensible.

Not sure about the training ground but they sold Elland Road it to a Company in the British Virgin Islands on a 25 year lease with a buy back option and like a lot of what happened with Leeds at that time it who owns what is as clear as mud.

We know what bad ownership can do to a club and Leeds United are perfect example which is why until we see how Lai runs the club over the course of a year or so I wouldn't jump to any firm conclusions. Ownership is long term and can't be judged on the outcome of a season. The ownership decisions that shape what now looks like were taken 2 to 5 years ago.

Lai's first decision was how to transition from the old to the new. By appointing Williams as Chairman and using Peace as an adviser it would suggest that he is relatively cautious and has the sense to know that he is operating in a different country and industry to the one he has been successful in. This is different to many new foreign based owners but in fairness many clubs are taken over in circumstances which are far less stable than the one that he inherits at the Albion. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 19, 2016, 09:02:13 AM

Lai's first decision was how to transition from the old to the new. By appointing Williams as Chairman and using Peace as an adviser it would suggest that he is relatively cautious and has the sense to know that he is operating in a different country and industry to the one he has been successful in. This is different to many new foreign based owners but in fairness many clubs are taken over in circumstances which are far less stable than the one that he inherits at the Albion.

This tells us all we need to know. There is more information on Guochuan Lai in the Editors notes section.

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/full-statement-on-west-bromwich-albions-takeover-3226381.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/full-statement-on-west-bromwich-albions-takeover-3226381.aspx)

It appears that Mr Lai is a very cute investor & indeed made from the same block of stone as Jeremy Peace. However the Global stock exchanges like his ideas to the tune of circa £1.8 billion.
I can see, measured investment in the football club, provided he gets a return & certainly evolution as opposed to revolution.

What I can't see is a desire to continue to flatline, he'll want to see some progress, & certainly us winning something. I think Richard Garlick set the benchmark at the Assembly meeting, top 10 & a serious attempt at the FA cup.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 19, 2016, 12:57:39 PM
Not sure about the training ground but they sold Elland Road it to a Company in the British Virgin Islands on a 25 year lease with a buy back option and like a lot of what happened with Leeds at that time it who owns what is as clear as mud.

We know what bad ownership can do to a club and Leeds United are perfect example which is why until we see how Lai runs the club over the course of a year or so I wouldn't jump to any firm conclusions. Ownership is long term and can't be judged on the outcome of a season. The ownership decisions that shape what now looks like were taken 2 to 5 years ago.

Lai's first decision was how to transition from the old to the new. By appointing Williams as Chairman and using Peace as an adviser it would suggest that he is relatively cautious and has the sense to know that he is operating in a different country and industry to the one he has been successful in. This is different to many new foreign based owners but in fairness many clubs are taken over in circumstances which are far less stable than the one that he inherits at the Albion.

Property developer named Jacob Adler of MBH Investments.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/owner-of-elland-road-wants-to-build-across-from-leeds-united-s-south-stand-1-8049893 (http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/owner-of-elland-road-wants-to-build-across-from-leeds-united-s-south-stand-1-8049893)

The 'deal' they signed for that sale sounds ridiculous. £8,000,000 for Elland Road and then leased back with an option to buy back at any time, but with the agreed buy back cost rising by 3% per year.

Just looked MBH Investments up on Company Check dated up to 2014.
Although rated as a low risk firm to invest in they appeared to have quite a few outstanding debts. If you scroll down to 'Key Financials' at the bottom of the link, their net worth and current assets make for interesting reading considering they own Elland Road.

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/03303241/MBH-INVESTMENTS-LTD/companies-house-data (https://companycheck.co.uk/company/03303241/MBH-INVESTMENTS-LTD/companies-house-data)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on October 04, 2016, 03:40:37 PM
Gouchan will be over for the Tottenham match. Wonder if this could be Tony Pulis's last game, if a bad result. Wonder if he will be generous and offer the free drinks again. Id also like another interview done, basically up dating us on his plans for the future.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on October 04, 2016, 05:03:06 PM
Gouchan will be over for the Tottenham match. Wonder if this could be Tony Pulis's last game, if a bad result. Wonder if he will be generous and offer the free drinks again. Id also like another interview done, basically up dating us on his plans for the future.
Doubt it. We could lose 5-0 and we'd still be around 13th in the league, no need to panic from Lai's perspective and he's said he wants to keep stability in place.
He won't be giving out free drinks either, it was his welcoming gift when he bought us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on October 12, 2016, 10:56:19 PM
Well a lot of papers are reporting John Williams and Gouchan Lai will be having a meeting with Tony Pulis after the game Saturday. Lai apparently be using an interpreter and he speaks very little English. I'm sure the January budget will be discussed. It seems to me we were willing to spend big last window, but for Pulis turning down a number of high profile signings we didn't. Be interesting to see the out come of this meeting and if the press get any information from it.

I do think there is friction between Williams and Pulis, if he doesn't go before, I can see Pulis leaving the end of the season. 100%
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on October 12, 2016, 11:05:25 PM
I'm intrigued to know how much money we'll have to spend on players January ??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on October 12, 2016, 11:41:02 PM
The more I wonder I'm not sure he's got any money, I think we'll just plod along with a new name over the door sadly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on October 13, 2016, 05:39:38 AM
The more I wonder I'm not sure he's got any money, I think we'll just plod along with a new name over the door sadly

Why are you surprised? Mr Lai said it will be business as usual and that means spending within our means.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 13, 2016, 06:07:05 AM
The more I wonder I'm not sure he's got any money, I think we'll just plod along with a new name over the door sadly

Well he found £200m from somewhere. I am sure he is not down to his last 1000 yen......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 13, 2016, 06:14:33 AM
Why are you surprised? Mr Lai said it will be business as usual and that means spending within our means.
He also said he'd like us to be a top 10 side too. Which would involve us having to spend to improve.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on October 13, 2016, 06:22:19 AM
Well a lot of papers are reporting John Williams and Gouchan Lai will be having a meeting with Tony Pulis after the game Saturday. Lai apparently be using an interpreter and he speaks very little English. I'm sure the January budget will be discussed. It seems to me we were willing to spend big last window, but for Pulis turning down a number of high profile signings we didn't. Be interesting to see the out come of this meeting and if the press get any information from it.

I do think there is friction between Williams and Pulis, if he doesn't go before, I can see Pulis leaving the end of the season. 100%

Just because its what you want, does not mean it will happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on October 13, 2016, 08:03:15 AM
Lai i am sure has the financial clout JP never had to get us further up the league. whether he trusts Pulis to spend it is another matter. My humble is Pulis wont get another contract
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 13, 2016, 08:32:23 AM
Lai i am sure has the financial clout JP never had to get us further up the league. whether he trusts Pulis to spend it is another matter. My humble is Pulis wont get another contract

I am with you on that Devon. TP sees his contract out which wont be renewed. He will no doubt have a few months off before getting another call, and we hopefully progress from there......however, this is the Albion we are talking about.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 13, 2016, 10:44:51 AM
IMO, it would be more a pointer to TP going if no meeting took place,

Spending £200m and not discussing "stuff" with the man at the coal face, now that would be sending signals !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 13, 2016, 10:46:30 AM
Well a lot of papers are reporting John Williams and Gouchan Lai will be having a meeting with Tony Pulis after the game Saturday. Lai apparently be using an interpreter and he speaks very little English. I'm sure the January budget will be discussed. It seems to me we were willing to spend big last window, but for Pulis turning down a number of high profile signings we didn't. Be interesting to see the out come of this meeting and if the press get any information from it.

I do think there is friction between Williams and Pulis, if he doesn't go before, I can see Pulis leaving the end of the season. 100%

It's more likely this meeting will produce a contract extension than a dismissal imo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 13, 2016, 10:57:54 AM
It's more likely this meeting will produce a contract extension than a dismissal imo.

I'm (sadly) inclined to agree, I just hope TP has NOT been brushing up on his chinese etiquette.

ie, Pulls big dirty snot rag from pocket and blasts Mr Lai with a copious dose of welsh snot, ot recieves business card and sticks it in his backside pocket .............and so on ...........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on October 13, 2016, 11:02:32 AM
If Tony is still with us next season and the Style of football is still the same then you will be loosing my season ticket money Mr Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on October 13, 2016, 12:02:58 PM
If Tony is still with us next season and the Style of football is still the same then you will be loosing my season ticket money Mr Lai

You said that last season! ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on October 13, 2016, 01:25:34 PM
If I was Mr Lai the first thing I'd be asking is why are there so many empty seats.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 13, 2016, 01:35:15 PM
It's more likely this meeting will produce a contract extension than a dismissal imo.

It will also produce a lot more empty seats and unsold season tickets as well........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on October 13, 2016, 01:40:40 PM
You said that last season! ;D

tongue in cheek, i mean it this time
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on October 14, 2016, 08:46:37 AM
I don't think any single meeting between Lai Williams and Pulis will resolve anything very much. However the ownership does have to make a decision about Pulis' future probably sometime between now and the end of the year. What this club looks like over the next two to three years hinges on that decision.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 14, 2016, 09:01:27 AM
I'm (sadly) inclined to agree, I just hope TP has NOT been brushing up on his chinese etiquette.

ie, Pulls big dirty snot rag from pocket and blasts Mr Lai with a copious dose of welsh snot, ot recieves business card and sticks it in his backside pocket .............and so on ...........
I am sure he will treat Mr Lai, like he treated Mr Peace. I know you do not like him, but is there any reason to post stuff like that?
You have been disrespectful of several posters on here yourself.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cornishbaggie on October 14, 2016, 09:41:33 AM
It's more likely this meeting will produce a contract extension than a dismissal imo.

it's not in Lai's interest to offer a contract extension. I don't think anything will be resolved until the end of the season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on October 14, 2016, 09:50:18 AM
Love to know why the moderators let Albionic`s nasty not needed quote appear on this site even if you don`t like someone there is no need for that it`s just a personal insult.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 14, 2016, 11:34:22 AM
Love to know why the moderators let Albionic`s nasty not needed quote appear on this site even if you don`t like someone there is no need for that it`s just a personal insult.

Don't see a great deal wrong with it to be honest. So far we have yet to see any evidence that TP is in bed with 'the chinese' as he calls them. If that's not disrespectful, I don't know what is......

Its strange that some folk find that nasty yet are quite happy with the continuing barrage of views and opinions that could been seen as nasty against the likes of Gardner, McLean and TP himself. How do you think they feel when they read it, and I am sure they do........

Albionic painted a picture of a likely scenario, that's all.......it amused me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 14, 2016, 01:59:15 PM
I am sure he will treat Mr Lai, like he treated Mr Peace. I know you do not like him, but is there any reason to post stuff like that?
You have been disrespectful of several posters on here yourself.

Apologies if i have upset you, it was my (errant clearly) attempt at a bit of light heartedness.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 14, 2016, 02:03:52 PM
Love to know why the moderators let Albionic`s nasty not needed quote appear on this site even if you don`t like someone there is no need for that it`s just a personal insult.

Not intended as a personal insult, merely a bit of satire.
I seriously doubt TP would let an oik like me get under his skin. 
I also hope that you never read private eye or watched spitting image, they would have seriously upset you i think!

I formally apologise for any distress caused.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 15, 2016, 12:11:50 AM
Not intended as a personal insult, merely a bit of satire.
I seriously doubt TP would let an oik like me get under his skin. 
I also hope that you never read private eye or watched spitting image, they would have seriously upset you i think!

I formally apologise for any distress caused.


It takes a big man to apologise.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on October 15, 2016, 10:33:23 AM
Morning all I would like to say thanks for the apology but wasn't needed. I just thought it wrong to say that about anyone not on this board and able to defend himself  AS for spitting image remember them well didn't like them but we all have different tastes and different sense of hummer . Anyway all over and done with lets get on with seeing what Mr Lai will do with our beloved Albion looking forward to this afternoons 3pm ko
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on October 15, 2016, 06:41:42 PM
TONY has been quoted as having meeting with owner before game as they were leaving right after game. Suggested that there were communication issues but that chairman spoke English?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on October 16, 2016, 01:52:37 AM
TONY has been quoted as having meeting with owner before game as they were leaving right after game. Suggested that there were communication issues but that chairman spoke English?
I don't understand the question. ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on October 16, 2016, 09:21:56 AM
TONY has been quoted as having meeting with owner before game as they were leaving right after game. Suggested that there were communication issues but that chairman spoke English?
Yes, I saw the interview on Sky where Pulis said he'd spent 10 minutes with Mr Lai and John Williams before the game having a cup of tea and that he had no more meetings planned with Mr Lai. He then went on to make comments about communication difficulties ("they're lovely people, but the problem with the Chairman (sic) is that he doesn't speak very good English") which he finished off with "luckily for us John Williams speaks English". I'm not quite sure what point he was trying to make there, if any, but judge for yourself:

Sky Sports interview (http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/premier-league/10618880/west-brom-1-1-tottenham)

It had been billed that there would be a full meeting where the January transfer budget would be discussed, presumably amongst other things, but that couldn't have happened in 10 minutes over a cup of tea. Therefore, if discussions did take place along those lines, Pulis couldn't have been involved in them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 16, 2016, 09:36:42 AM
Yes, I saw the interview on Sky where Pulis said he'd spent 10 minutes with Mr Lai and John Williams before the game having a cup of tea and that he had no more meetings planned with Mr Lai. He then went on to make comments about communication difficulties ("they're lovely people, but the problem with the Chairman (sic) is that he doesn't speak very good English") which he finished off with "luckily for us John Williams speaks English". I'm not quite sure what point he was trying to make there, if any, but judge for yourself:

Sky Sports interview (http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/competitions/premier-league/10618880/west-brom-1-1-tottenham)

It had been billed that there would be a full meeting where the January transfer budget would be discussed, presumably amongst other things, but that couldn't have happened in 10 minutes over a cup of tea. Therefore, if discussions did take place along those lines, Pulis couldn't have been involved in them.

I think I get it, but just to clarify positions? Isn't the Chairman British, & the Owner Chinese? & wasn't that a "subtle" way of saying to TP, you deal though the Chairman?
I guess TP just doesn't do "subtle"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on October 16, 2016, 10:16:10 AM
I think it is clear that Williams is in day to day charge of the club and Lai isn't going to be a hands on owner. Pulis' relationship is not with owners but with Williams and Hammond. Broadly I think this a good thing but we will have to see how things develop.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on October 16, 2016, 12:51:59 PM
Anyone seen that interview in the official site with the other gentleman,not sure what his name is, but he seems very keen. They have invested in ten companies and have over a billion invested in projects they said I think
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on October 16, 2016, 12:59:31 PM
Anyone seen that interview in the official site with the other gentleman,not sure what his name is, but he seems very keen. They have invested in ten companies and have over a billion invested in projects they said I think

Weilin Yin, the CEO of the Yunyi Investment Group.

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/new-albion-owner-guochuan-lai-is-back-at-the-hawthorns-today-for-the-premier-league-clash-with-tottenham-hotspur-3362967.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/new-albion-owner-guochuan-lai-is-back-at-the-hawthorns-today-for-the-premier-league-clash-with-tottenham-hotspur-3362967.aspx)

Ed: Typescript below.

"My name is Weilin Yin. I am a founding partner and CEO of Yunyi Investment. Our company was founded in 2014. To date, we have invested in ten projects inside and outside China. The funds we manage exceed RMB 1 billion. We are the lead manager and coordinator of West Brom’s acquisition.

In the sports sector, we have looked into many potential targets. But ultimately, we focused our attention on West Brom. Why have we been drawn to West Brom? West Brom was founded in 1878, and from our visit of the stadium, history museum, and our talks with the management team, we discovered the clubs incredibly rich history and heritage. From a business perspective, this club is the only one of all the ones we’ve looked into that is completely debt free. Its financial operations are very sound.

We had a discussion with Mr Lai. We were completely won over by his charisma. He does not only have an understanding but a real passion for football. He is truly committed to football, which is also reflected through his hobbies and interests. We can see that Mr Lai is a football fan and a good football player. He organised his compnany’s own employees football league and built a corporate football culture, which encouraged the love of football and sports in the whole company. So Mr Lai is the only one we believe will be a good leader for West Brom. He is the only one who can devote himself heart and soul to help operate the club.

This is the first time ever that a buyer from mainland China acquires an English Premier League club. We will ensure that such an excellent club with historical heritage is in good hands. Another very important reason to invest in West Brom is that its football training academy is best-in-class in the United Kingdom. I believe this football training academy will not only strengthen and secure West Brom’s own football heritage but also influence the Chinese football training system in the future".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on October 16, 2016, 03:45:23 PM
Weilin Yin, the CEO of the Yunyi Investment Group.

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/new-albion-owner-guochuan-lai-is-back-at-the-hawthorns-today-for-the-premier-league-clash-with-tottenham-hotspur-3362967.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/new-albion-owner-guochuan-lai-is-back-at-the-hawthorns-today-for-the-premier-league-clash-with-tottenham-hotspur-3362967.aspx)

Ed: Typescript below.

"My name is Weilin Yin. I am a founding partner and CEO of Yunyi Investment. Our company was founded in 2014. To date, we have invested in ten projects inside and outside China. The funds we manage exceed RMB 1 billion. We are the lead manager and coordinator of West Brom’s acquisition.

In the sports sector, we have looked into many potential targets. But ultimately, we focused our attention on West Brom. Why have we been drawn to West Brom? West Brom was founded in 1878, and from our visit of the stadium, history museum, and our talks with the management team, we discovered the clubs incredibly rich history and heritage. From a business perspective, this club is the only one of all the ones we’ve looked into that is completely debt free. Its financial operations are very sound.

We had a discussion with Mr Lai. We were completely won over by his charisma. He does not only have an understanding but a real passion for football. He is truly committed to football, which is also reflected through his hobbies and interests. We can see that Mr Lai is a football fan and a good football player. He organised his compnany’s own employees football league and built a corporate football culture, which encouraged the love of football and sports in the whole company. So Mr Lai is the only one we believe will be a good leader for West Brom. He is the only one who can devote himself heart and soul to help operate the club.

This is the first time ever that a buyer from mainland China acquires an English Premier League club. We will ensure that such an excellent club with historical heritage is in good hands. Another very important reason to invest in West Brom is that its football training academy is best-in-class in the United Kingdom. I believe this football training academy will not only strengthen and secure West Brom’s own football heritage but also influence the Chinese football training system in the future".
Thank you for that information.Very interesting.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on October 16, 2016, 06:47:35 PM
Who was the other guy sitting with Mr Lai, fellow Chinese. Was this his interpreter. Mr Lai looks so little and looks about 15-16. I like that he is making an effort when free to come over and watch us. I'm intrigued to know how much he is willing to sanction to spend January. Think we need another creative midfielder, and another striker. Think the full backs could do with freshen up as well. Wonder if Mr Lai will be over again near Christmas.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 16, 2016, 06:50:11 PM
Weilin Yin, the CEO of the Yunyi Investment Group.

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/new-albion-owner-guochuan-lai-is-back-at-the-hawthorns-today-for-the-premier-league-clash-with-tottenham-hotspur-3362967.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/new-albion-owner-guochuan-lai-is-back-at-the-hawthorns-today-for-the-premier-league-clash-with-tottenham-hotspur-3362967.aspx)

Ed: Typescript below.

"My name is Weilin Yin. I am a founding partner and CEO of Yunyi Investment. Our company was founded in 2014. To date, we have invested in ten projects inside and outside China. The funds we manage exceed RMB 1 billion. We are the lead manager and coordinator of West Brom’s acquisition.

In the sports sector, we have looked into many potential targets. But ultimately, we focused our attention on West Brom. Why have we been drawn to West Brom? West Brom was founded in 1878, and from our visit of the stadium, history museum, and our talks with the management team, we discovered the clubs incredibly rich history and heritage. From a business perspective, this club is the only one of all the ones we’ve looked into that is completely debt free. Its financial operations are very sound.

We had a discussion with Mr Lai. We were completely won over by his charisma. He does not only have an understanding but a real passion for football. He is truly committed to football, which is also reflected through his hobbies and interests. We can see that Mr Lai is a football fan and a good football player. He organised his compnany’s own employees football league and built a corporate football culture, which encouraged the love of football and sports in the whole company. So Mr Lai is the only one we believe will be a good leader for West Brom. He is the only one who can devote himself heart and soul to help operate the club.

This is the first time ever that a buyer from mainland China acquires an English Premier League club. We will ensure that such an excellent club with historical heritage is in good hands. Another very important reason to invest in West Brom is that its football training academy is best-in-class in the United Kingdom. I believe this football training academy will not only strengthen and secure West Brom’s own football heritage but also influence the Chinese football training system in the future".


If my calculations are correct, RMB 1 billion = circa £120 million. Should we be impressed?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on October 16, 2016, 08:26:38 PM
No we shouldn't be impressed. The more financial info disclosed the clearer it is that the Chinese consortium who bought us do not have any significant wealth to invest in the club. We have been let down by Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on October 16, 2016, 08:39:48 PM
The one issue that worries me is that both Lai and the gentleman on the this video both talk about how we are debt free and also our excellent academy and how that will help in China. I hope they don't see us simply as a way forward to improve football over there. Worrying times if they have no more money as I hoped peace would sell to someone with a little more clout
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 16, 2016, 09:03:01 PM
No we shouldn't be impressed. The more financial info disclosed the clearer it is that the Chinese consortium who bought us do not have any significant wealth to invest in the club. We have been let down by Peace.

No, not necessarily true.  There are 3 parties who have come together to make up the consortium and we have no idea of their collective wealth.  All you are seeing here is the level of funds managed by one of the three investors.

To put it into context, Peace had no significant wealth other than his shareholding in the club.  He had no ability to put any new money in.

Whether the new owners have £100m, £500m or £1 billion of available wealth is irrelevant.  Because of the FFP rules and the natural constraints of a ground with 26,000 capacity, they are unlikely to put in much more than £100m of new money, even if they could.

There are only about 7 or 8 clubs in the Premier League who have owners capable of putting in much more than £100m, so it is naive to think that we were ever going to suddenly become a Man City or a Chelsea.  I for one am very glad of that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on October 16, 2016, 09:03:35 PM
Anybody that thought Peace would prioritise the future of the club (and 'pick' new owners on this basis) above his own gain was sorely mistaken
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on October 16, 2016, 10:45:53 PM
You Peace haters ain`t going to let it rest are you Peace has sold us to a consortium that is a lot wealthier than he will ever be and as overseasbaggie states we don`t know there worth lets not get on there backs and give them a chance bloody hell its only been a few weeks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on October 16, 2016, 11:13:15 PM
There is no way of knowing how wealthy the various players in the ownership are, however they dropped over £150m on buying a football club without borrowing any money so maybe they aren't exactly paupers

Most owners are not investing their personal wealth in football clubs the last great sugar daddy were the Mansours at City. Football clubs do not need subsidy to survive or even thrive. Most Premier League clubs make money but all owners are by definition rich on the grounds football clubs are expensive things to buy but it doesn't mean they are putting any significant investment into the clubs far from it. 

No owner is going to go some sort spending spree it was never going to happen and as such fans have no right to be disappointed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on October 17, 2016, 12:19:55 AM
The group are massively loaded, there is a lot of money available. There was in the summer, just a case of convincing £20+ million players to actually sign
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 17, 2016, 07:24:10 AM
Anybody that thought Peace would prioritise the future of the club (and 'pick' new owners on this basis) above his own gain was sorely mistaken

and your evidence is what exactly?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on October 17, 2016, 08:08:26 AM
I am sure we have a damn sight more money than last season. The richest the club has ever been.Once we have a head coach with flair in mind and a plan b i am sure we will see some high profilers signing for us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on October 17, 2016, 08:13:13 AM
I am sure we have a damn sight more money than last season. The richest the club has ever been.Once we have a head coach with flair in mind and a plan b i am sure we will see some high profilers signing for us

Trouble is that even though we may be the richest we have ever been, other clubs have either caught up or overtaken us or certainly looks that way. But new owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 17, 2016, 08:21:15 AM
Personally I am pleased that we have not bought everybody and his brother, if we have money then there is absolutely no point telling everyone. The good doctor down the road did that and look at the muggings he has had........

As always, time will tell. TP has eluded to getting one or two quality signings in during the next window, so lets just wait and see.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on October 17, 2016, 08:28:34 AM
Trouble is that even though we may be the richest we have ever been, other clubs have either caught up or overtaken us or certainly looks that way. But new owners.

Have they though?

Most of the clubs above us have wealthy owners, plenty of clubs with wealthy owners below us as well, I fully accept that we have improved slowly and some years appear to have stood still or even gone backwards, but overall our trajectory is upwards when you look at our squad, the youth coming through and the infrastructure around the club.

Its very easy to talk down our club, to knock the manager, the lack of high profile transfers, but a lot of what we do, we do very well, like in life, being negative only damages yourself.

I prefer a glass half full approach myself, I'm sitting here this morning, had a great weekend, been to watch an absorbing top class draw which my team fully deserved, our local rivals are struggling in lower divisions, probable investment in January, what's not to be content about. :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 17, 2016, 08:35:56 AM
The group are massively loaded, there is a lot of money available. There was in the summer, just a case of convincing £20+ million players to actually sign

Slimani, Camacho, Kluse, Benteke - we were clearly and genuinely in for some of them at £18m to £30m and not just by spending Berahino sale monies (if he had been sold). And that's on top of buying Chadli and Nyam (if we treat the sale of Chester as having funded the purchase of Phillips).

And those targets were BEFORE the deal was officially sanctioned, don't forget.

There's money there to enable us to compete with the likes of Stoke, Southampton, Palace, Everton, West Ham etc in the transfer market, which is the best we can realistically hope for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on October 17, 2016, 08:40:25 AM
Have they though?

Most of the clubs above us have wealthy owners, plenty of clubs with wealthy owners below us as well, I fully accept that we have improved slowly and some years appear to have stood still or even gone backwards, but overall our trajectory is upwards when you look at our squad, the youth coming through and the infrastructure around the club.

Its very easy to talk down our club, to knock the manager, the lack of high profile transfers, but a lot of what we do, we do very well, like in life, being negative only damages yourself.

I prefer a glass half full approach myself, I'm sitting here this morning, had a great weekend, been to watch an absorbing top class draw which my team fully deserved, our local rivals are struggling in lower divisions, probable investment in January, what's not to be content about. :)
Good Post BP. Let's wait till January and then see if the Mr Lai and Mr Williams comes up with the money.  Negativity is a problem amongst some Albion fans these days.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 17, 2016, 08:45:28 AM
The group are massively loaded, there is a lot of money available. There was in the summer, just a case of convincing £20+ million players to actually sign

I'm not sure that's true. Palm, Mr Lai's landscaping company, turns over circa £500 million per year, but the eco-town project is backed, by investors, to the tune of £1.8 billion.

IMO, Mr Lai's consortium see the acquisition of WBA as an investment opportunity, so it's quite conceivable that the academy could be viewed as a) a model to replicate several times over in China & b) as a footballer "production line" revenue stream. It's also quite conceivable that the consortium could see WBAFC as model family club, again to replicate in China, & one to place in each of the eco towns.

To ensure the continuity of the model, & to make it more attractive, there will have to be some investment in players, & possibly coaching staff.
Winning something would attract the attention of the Chinese people, & our best bet at the present time is one of the domestic cup competitions.
IMO, we will buy some players in January, but as Overseas Baggie has said, I doubt if our annual spend on transfer fees & wages will be above £100 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 17, 2016, 11:53:06 AM
football academies are HUGE in china, $185Million Huge

The chinese government are actively pursuing world dominance, they want best practice hence they want to understand our academy.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/15/football/football-china-guangzhou-evergrande/

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on November 01, 2016, 07:27:21 PM
So is Gouchan Lai just John Williams and Jeremy Peaces puppet. We give a manager a new one year deal, a manager who's divided the Hawthorns, fans not coming to the games, terrible football. I thought with a new owner, wed have a new manager in, most takeovers result in a new manager being appointed.

I'm sorry but I cant see Pulis seeing out his one year deal, he will be sacked I reckon. Results will determine that. Any moron who says there's no better managers out there, clearly don't have a clue. Andre Villas Boas (Highest win percentage of any Spurs boss in the Prem), Marcelo Bielsa (Did brilliantly with Chile and Bilbao Spain), Frank De Boer now available after Inter sacking. That's three high profile names already.

Are we just planning to stagnate and not move forward, January window is massive, if we don't get two of three quality signings in, I worry we could go down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 01, 2016, 07:43:41 PM
So is Gouchan Lai just John Williams and Jeremy Peaces puppet. We give a manager a new one year deal, a manager who's divided the Hawthorns, fans not coming to the games, terrible football. I thought with a new owner, wed have a new manager in, most takeovers result in a new manager being appointed.

I'm sorry but I cant see Pulis seeing out his one year deal, he will be sacked I reckon. Results will determine that. Any moron who says there's no better managers out there, clearly don't have a clue. Andre Villas Boas (Highest win percentage of any Spurs boss in the Prem), Marcelo Bielsa (Did brilliantly with Chile and Bilbao Spain), Frank De Boer now available after Inter sacking. That's three high profile names already.

Are we just planning to stagnate and not move forward, January window is massive, if we don't get two of three quality signings in, I worry we could go down.

High profile doesn't mean good... AVB failed in 2 Premier League jobs for example...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on November 01, 2016, 11:10:43 PM
High profile doesn't mean good... AVB failed in 2 Premier League jobs for example...
It's the sort of failure we can only dream of. At Chelsea, they were, I think 5th or 6th when he got sacked, which wasn't great by their standards, but was hardly a catastrophic failure. At Spurs, he achieved the highest points ever for them in the Premier League and had the best win ratio any manager had had for them. I think if Pulis had achieved our highest points ever, and had the highest win ratio of any Albion manager, this thread would be full of people singing his praises - he would already be a legend, but he hasn't, so I for one would be happy to take my chances with AVB, despite his two "failures"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 02, 2016, 12:39:41 AM
It's the sort of failure we can only dream of. At Chelsea, they were, I think 5th or 6th when he got sacked, which wasn't great by their standards, but was hardly a catastrophic failure. At Spurs, he achieved the highest points ever for them in the Premier League and had the best win ratio any manager had had for them. I think if Pulis had achieved our highest points ever, and had the highest win ratio of any Albion manager, this thread would be full of people singing his praises - he would already be a legend, but he hasn't, so I for one would be happy to take my chances with AVB, despite his two "failures"

Ah yes, the fabled 72 point but still only 5th place finish despite having Bale... Then sacked the next season... He's awful in the Premier League, I dread to think how he'd approach this squad of players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on November 02, 2016, 08:25:19 AM
Ah yes, the fabled 72 point but still only 5th place finish despite having Bale... Then sacked the next season... He's awful in the Premier League, I dread to think how he'd approach this squad of players.
I can't say I'm surprised, but you must use some strange criteria to regard Pulis as being omnipotent, whilst believing Villas-Boas was awful in the Premier League. Villas-Boas left Spurs with the highest league win percentage of any manager during the club's Premier League era (55%), which is also higher than Pochettino's currently (49.6%).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on November 02, 2016, 08:26:33 AM
Pi Yue Li has been added to the board of directors, seems suspiciously close to the name Pulis for my liking  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 02, 2016, 08:40:04 AM
Pi Yue Li has been added to the board of directors, seems suspiciously close to the name Pulis for my liking  ;D

This appointment adds a whole new dimension to the football club, it will bring a Chinese influence into the decision making.

I understand one of Pi Yue Li's first tasks will be to replicate our academy in China, as a result, we should probably expect some Chinese players at some stage in the future.
If we are to have another Head Coach, it could also lead to a Global search & bring up names we've never even heard of.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on November 02, 2016, 09:11:37 AM
Pi Yue Li has been added to the board of directors, seems suspiciously close to the name Pulis for my liking  ;D
Indeed!  :D

Sadly, it looks like Jenkins is going to be staying when it was reported in August that he was working his notice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on November 09, 2016, 07:03:31 PM
new owners spreading the brand to china.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/2/857873363?-11200:789:3
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 18, 2016, 12:02:57 AM
This could be interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38020900 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38020900)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on November 18, 2016, 08:45:31 AM
This could be interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38020900 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38020900)
Doesn't start until 2019 which means the powers that be have a bit of a conundrum now:

They will probably stay with Pulis to hang on to PL status, but
Do they really want the first impression of the club in their homeland to be the sort of stuff that he serves up?

Will the fact that we are Chinese owned be enough, or will they want to be entertained?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on November 18, 2016, 09:34:07 AM
Doesn't start until 2019 which means the powers that be have a bit of a conundrum now:

They will probably stay with Pulis to hang on to PL status, but
Do they really want the first impression of the club in their homeland to be the sort of stuff that he serves up?

Will the fact that we are Chinese owned be enough, or will they want to be entertained?

Depends if they show us against Leicester of Middlesborough I would have thought
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on November 18, 2016, 09:38:06 AM
Depends if they show us against Leicester of Middlesborough I would have thought
I would imagine from 2019 they will be able to see every game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 18, 2016, 02:04:51 PM
Doesn't start until 2019 which means the powers that be have a bit of a conundrum now:

They will probably stay with Pulis to hang on to PL status, but
Do they really want the first impression of the club in their homeland to be the sort of stuff that he serves up?

Will the fact that we are Chinese owned be enough, or will they want to be entertained?

I think above all, they'll want wins,................................... & a trophy,..................................& a household name. Which is why I'm surprised we didn't sign Momo Sissoko, who had played in China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on November 18, 2016, 03:38:32 PM
Every Prem team will get an extra £10m with this deal for doing nothing more than they currently do.

Nice work if you can get it!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on November 19, 2016, 08:12:19 AM
I think the reported TV deal highlights the level of interest in football in China and the rapidly growing value of the Chinese market which through this deal has just added roughly £15m to the value of the club provided we can stay n the Premier League. It helps to set Lai's purchase of the club into to context in that it demonstrates how he can buy the club for in excess of £150m and still hope to make a profit.

However what it doesn't do demonstrate the strategic direction that he will take nor the bigger picture of Chinese investment in English football particularly in the West Midlands.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 19, 2016, 09:03:31 AM
I think the reported TV deal highlights the level of interest in football in China and the rapidly growing value of the Chinese market which through this deal has just added roughly £15m to the value of the club provided we can stay n the Premier League. It helps to set Lai's purchase of the club into to context in that it demonstrates how he can buy the club for in excess of £150m and still hope to make a profit.

However what it doesn't do demonstrate the strategic direction that he will take nor the bigger picture of Chinese investment in English football particularly in the West Midlands.

@Prof_Chadwick on twitter seems to have his finger on the pulse re:China'a strategic approach to football, both in UK & Europe.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on November 19, 2016, 09:48:29 AM
Pi Yue Li has been added to the board of directors, seems suspiciously close to the name Pulis for my liking  ;D

Tony Pulis's Chinese brother by another mother! ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on November 20, 2016, 08:05:02 PM
I would imagine from 2019 they will be able to see every game.

They already can. The reason this deal doesn't start until 2019 is because that's when the current deal run out. The interest in China is already huge that's why they are prepared to pay sp much for the new deal
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on December 03, 2016, 06:03:03 PM
I wonder how much funds Pulis will be given this January. Its Gouchan Lai's first window, I'm sure he will want to bring in one or two top quality players to excite the fans. If we could get a William Carvalho or Adrien Silva id be over the moon. Mind both are at Sporting Lisbon, cant see them selling us both. Plus Carvalho will easily go for about 30-35 million, and Silva must be at least 25 million.

Plus Pulis has said he wants a full back, ie Charlie Taylor. He has also been linked with Ademola Lockman from Charlton, talking a good 40-50 million spend if he wants all the rumoured players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on December 03, 2016, 06:14:58 PM
I wonder how much funds Pulis will be given this January. Its Gouchan Lai's first window, I'm sure he will want to bring in one or two top quality players to excite the fans. If we could get a William Carvalho or Adrien Silva id be over the moon. Mind both are at Sporting Lisbon, cant see them selling us both. Plus Carvalho will easily go for about 30-35 million, and Silva must be at least 25 million.

Plus Pulis has said he wants a full back, ie Charlie Taylor. He has also been linked with Ademola Lockman from Charlton, talking a good 40-50 million spend if he wants all the rumoured players.
I'd be happy with a Duje Cop or Izet Hajrovic to be honest
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Xpresso on December 03, 2016, 06:26:24 PM
Quote
So is Gouchan Lai just John Williams and Jeremy Peaces puppet. We give a manager a new one year deal, a manager who's divided the Hawthorns, fans not coming to the games, terrible football. I thought with a new owner, wed have a new manager in, most takeovers result in a new manager being appointed.

I'm sorry but I cant see Pulis seeing out his one year deal, he will be sacked I reckon. Results will determine that. Any moron who says there's no better managers out there, clearly don't have a clue. Andre Villas Boas (Highest win percentage of any Spurs boss in the Prem), Marcelo Bielsa (Did brilliantly with Chile and Bilbao Spain), Frank De Boer now available after Inter sacking. That's three high profile names already.

Are we just planning to stagnate and not move forward, January window is massive, if we don't get two of three quality signings in, I worry we could go down.

Not looking such a clever post now, is it? I'll resist the obvious comment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on December 03, 2016, 06:28:41 PM
Not looking such a clever post now, is it? I'll resist the obvious comment.
LOL! Get a job as a "Judge" they are always right!! ...........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on December 04, 2016, 08:24:45 AM
I wonder how much funds Pulis will be given this January. Its Gouchan Lai's first window, I'm sure he will want to bring in one or two top quality players to excite the fans. If we could get a William Carvalho or Adrien Silva id be over the moon. Mind both are at Sporting Lisbon, cant see them selling us both. Plus Carvalho will easily go for about 30-35 million, and Silva must be at least 25 million.

Plus Pulis has said he wants a full back, ie Charlie Taylor. He has also been linked with Ademola Lockman from Charlton, talking a good 40-50 million spend if he wants all the rumoured players.

There is nothing to suggest that Lai is running the club as a vanity project which is a good thing he isn't going to care whether this window is his first and want to make a splash. What will drive our activity is the need for reinforcements allied to the fact the transfer budget wasn't spent during the summer.

There is certainly upwards of £20m available a lot will depend on who is available in January and whether we restrict ourselves to the British market. Equally there are still a few players we could let go to further increase our budget. 

Personally I don't doubt that the club wants to be active but I doubt whether players of the right caliber will be available at almost any price. However one positive is that our current form has largely put any lingering fear of relegation to bed which will make the hierarchy more comfortable spending and targets more likely to sign.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 04, 2016, 08:56:18 AM
There is nothing to suggest that Lai is running the club as a vanity project which is a good thing he isn't going to care whether this window is his first and want to make a splash. What will drive our activity is the need for reinforcements allied to the fact the transfer budget wasn't spent during the summer.

There is certainly upwards of £20m available a lot will depend on who is available in January and whether we restrict ourselves to the British market. Equally there are still a few players we could let go to further increase our budget. 

Personally I don't doubt that the club wants to be active but I doubt whether players of the right caliber will be available at almost any price. However one positive is that our current form has largely put any lingering fear of relegation to bed which will make the hierarchy more comfortable spending and targets more likely to sign.

I seem to remember a quote from Nick Hammond, where he said they would be focusing on players who had experience of playing in the PL for the January window.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on December 04, 2016, 11:31:36 AM
I seem to remember a quote from Nick Hammond, where he said they would be focusing on players who had experience of playing in the PL for the January window.

At least there are players available from overseas that do have prior experience in the Premier League so hopefully those comments aren't restricting us to those currently in England.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on January 25, 2017, 07:13:24 PM
I have searched Google and still cant find much info on this company, there is a Wikipedia page for Gouchan Lai, still there not a load of information on him, ie his net wealth. Reason I'm posting this is, I wanted to know how many directors are involved in the group and if they have anything ant all to do with West Brom. We still don't know that much about them. For all we know a rich director could have funded a large deal of the purchase of the club. If anyone has any more information on the company please post ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on January 25, 2017, 09:34:33 PM
When we sign a few more players will you stop the conspiracy theories about the club's senior staff?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 26, 2017, 06:58:30 AM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-guochuan-lai-worth-12502546

West Brom owner Guochuan Lai's enormous net wealth revealed
Lai remains a mysterious figure having said very little since investing in the Hawthorns club this summer – but his enormous spending power

BYGRAEME BROWN
05:00, 26 JAN 2017
SPORT

The eye-watering wealth of the new West Brom owner has been revealed, with Guochuan Lai worth a cool £2.8 billion.

Lai remains a mysterious figure having said very little since investing in the Hawthorns club this summer – but his enormous spending power has been unveiled in the Birmingham Post Rich List.

It is thought he parted with the best part of £200 million then he completed the takeover – earning former Baggies chairman Jeremy Peace a slot on the Rich List – and is presently the only Premier League club owner in the West Midlands.

However, he is not the richest, with Wolves owner Guo Guangchang, of Fosun International Group, boasting a net worth of £4.4 billion.

Lai runs Chinese investment company Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development and has a background of investing in giant eco-towns in the Fai East.

Rich List editor Ian Strachan admitted it can be difficult to assess the wealth of Chinese businessmen – and suggested he might actually be worth more.

He said: “He has a number of growing private investments in technology, virtual reality, tourism and sport. It is difficult to be precise about the net worth of individuals in China, but our estimate of £2.8 billion may be conservative.

“While he remains in China to manage his many business interests, he has pledged to visit The Hawthorns as often as possible and to fully support the chairman and executive team.”

West Brom made their first significant investment of the Lai era in bringing in Hull City midfielder Jake Livermore for £10 million this month.

However, with Saido Berahino having left for more than £12 million, the books continue to be balanced, unlike the more free-spending Guangchang and Tony Xia at Aston Villa, who also makes it onto the Rich List with a £990 million fortune.

The Rich List ranks the 50 wealthiest people in the region, including those who live elsewhere but are major investors.

Paul Suen Cho Hung, the new top man at Birmingham City, also makes the list with a net worth of £440 million.


Our new owner is wealthy who would have guessed that? All well and good but there is no evidence to suggest that he is going to subsidise the club in the transfer market nor should he in my view. However for those that harbour such fantasies it must give them a warm glow of expectation and look there is another Chinese businessman spending lots of money up the road in Witton.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 26, 2017, 08:14:59 AM
At least we are richer than the seals
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on January 26, 2017, 10:07:25 AM
At least we are richer than the seals
Yep difference is Dr evil doesn't hesitate to get his wallet out but early days yet for our owner we need a top up not major surgery
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on January 26, 2017, 10:22:36 AM
Yep difference is Dr evil doesn't hesitate to get his wallet out but early days yet for our owner we need a top up not major surgery

I'm assuming FFP will be catching up with them in the not too distant future.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on January 26, 2017, 10:29:13 AM
I'm assuming FFP will be catching up with them in the not too distant future.
Yep you would have thought so but its been flounced that many times by different clubs,its becoming a bit of a joke
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on January 26, 2017, 01:03:20 PM
Birmingham Mail reporting Gouchan Lai's net wealth to be £2.8 Billion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on January 26, 2017, 01:04:07 PM
Well finding out today via Birmingham Mail his net wealth is £2.8 billion certainly helps.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on January 26, 2017, 01:10:37 PM
Birmingham Mail reporting Gouchan Lai's net wealth to be £2.8 Billion.

Its a conservative estimate

Could be worth more  :o

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 26, 2017, 01:30:23 PM
Crikey! we should have had a crate of beer each, at least.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on January 26, 2017, 01:32:14 PM
I hope John Williams has been advised to spend what he likes within FFP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 26, 2017, 01:38:19 PM
imagine if the wolves come up, their potential 4 billion fosun
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 26, 2017, 01:39:11 PM
Well finding out today via Birmingham Mail his net wealth is £2.8 billion certainly helps.


were you expecting these findings hence your thread
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 26, 2017, 01:52:09 PM
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-guochuan-lai-worth-12502546

West Brom owner Guochuan Lai's enormous net wealth revealed
Lai remains a mysterious figure having said very little since investing in the Hawthorns club this summer – but his enormous spending power

BYGRAEME BROWN
05:00, 26 JAN 2017
SPORT

The eye-watering wealth of the new West Brom owner has been revealed, with Guochuan Lai worth a cool £2.8 billion.

Lai remains a mysterious figure having said very little since investing in the Hawthorns club this summer – but his enormous spending power has been unveiled in the Birmingham Post Rich List.

It is thought he parted with the best part of £200 million then he completed the takeover – earning former Baggies chairman Jeremy Peace a slot on the Rich List – and is presently the only Premier League club owner in the West Midlands.

However, he is not the richest, with Wolves owner Guo Guangchang, of Fosun International Group, boasting a net worth of £4.4 billion.

Lai runs Chinese investment company Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development and has a background of investing in giant eco-towns in the Fai East.

Rich List editor Ian Strachan admitted it can be difficult to assess the wealth of Chinese businessmen – and suggested he might actually be worth more.

He said: “He has a number of growing private investments in technology, virtual reality, tourism and sport. It is difficult to be precise about the net worth of individuals in China, but our estimate of £2.8 billion may be conservative.

“While he remains in China to manage his many business interests, he has pledged to visit The Hawthorns as often as possible and to fully support the chairman and executive team.”

West Brom made their first significant investment of the Lai era in bringing in Hull City midfielder Jake Livermore for £10 million this month.

However, with Saido Berahino having left for more than £12 million, the books continue to be balanced, unlike the more free-spending Guangchang and Tony Xia at Aston Villa, who also makes it onto the Rich List with a £990 million fortune.

The Rich List ranks the 50 wealthiest people in the region, including those who live elsewhere but are major investors.

Paul Suen Cho Hung, the new top man at Birmingham City, also makes the list with a net worth of £440 million.


Our new owner is wealthy who would have guessed that? All well and good but there is no evidence to suggest that he is going to subsidise the club in the transfer market nor should he in my view. However for those that harbour such fantasies it must give them a warm glow of expectation and look there is another Chinese businessman spending lots of money up the road in Witton.


I'm sure the financial specialists on here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Birmingham Mail article is strictly correct.

As far as I am aware, Palm, the business Mr Lai bankrolled to fund the purchase of WBA, has a turnover of around £500 million per year. It's anticipated that Palm will be a major player in the development of eco cities in China & as a consequence Palm is backed, in investments, to the tune of around £2.8 billion.
In effect, as others have said, the more successful Mr Lai is, the more he will be able to invest in WBA.

I think I might have mentioned before to twitter users, @Prof_Chadwick is well worth a follow to get an understanding of Chinese involvement in football & sport in general.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 26, 2017, 03:59:29 PM
I think I might have mentioned before to twitter users, @Prof_Chadwick is well worth a follow to get an understanding of Chinese involvement in football & sport in general.

Yes, I believe you've mentioned it several times.

Prof' Chadwick is obsessed with the Chinese and their influence on the game.

Amazed that he ever gets any 'professoring' done.

He's always on fkn twitter  :P .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 26, 2017, 05:18:27 PM
Yes, I believe you've mentioned it several times.

Prof' Chadwick is obsessed with the Chinese and their influence on the game.

Amazed that he ever gets any 'professoring' done.

He's always on fkn twitter  :P .


I would use the word focused rather than obsessed, & quite rightly, the Chinese are set to be very influential in the way the world pans out over the next few decades.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on January 26, 2017, 06:24:21 PM
It doesn't matter how much any of them are worth, what matters is how much they will invest.
At the moment Lai is playing a wait and see game, we are doing ok. Too many changes too quickly can be a recipe for disaster.
Only time will tell who has secured the best owner/investor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 26, 2017, 06:25:01 PM

I would use the word focused rather than obsessed, & quite rightly, the Chinese are set to be very influential in the way the world pans out over the next few decades.

My description of him as obsessed was tongue in cheek.
However, I stand by my comment that he doesn't appear to spend much time 'professoring'.

As for the influence of the Chinese on the world and footballing stage, well yes chap, I'd worked that out for myself. Sorry, but a professor hedging his bets on any number of potential outcomes, postulating over what may or may not unfold in the manner he is actually comes across as pretty boring fare to me.

Sophisticated click bait material designed to raise his own profile and increase his 'standing' as an 'expert'. He has shown no greater genuine insight regarding the Chinese in football and the world stage than many on this forum.

Please excuse me for not being overly impressed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on January 26, 2017, 07:50:38 PM
another point on this which has been pointed out many times is that Lai is the front man but not the only investor in WBA.  we are led to believe that there are others in the background who are wealthier than Lai...

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 26, 2017, 10:59:03 PM
another point on this which has been pointed out many times is that Lai is the front man but not the only investor in WBA.  we are led to believe that there are others in the background who are wealthier than Lai...



This is not so Lai directly owns 59% Yuni Investment (which is the Club's parent company) a further 18% is owned by Palm and the balance (23%) by various shareholders in an investment trust (Yunjin). The Premier League and  FCA regulations require the full disclosure of beneficial ownership. There is no even richer party sitting behind Lai, there may be very wealthy investors in the 23% minority stake but equally there may not.

Lai is an investor not a benefactor and should be viewed as such. His net worth is not a pool of wealth which is going to spent in an ever grander game of fantasy football. However until we have a few years under our belts we won't know where his ownership is heading. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 27, 2017, 03:00:49 AM
His personal wealth is irrelevant to me. As said above, he's an investor and one of his first thoughts will have been on how to recoup his initial outlay. 

investor

a person or organization that puts money into financial schemes, property, etc. with the expectation of achieving a profit.
"foreign investors in the British commercial property sector"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 29, 2017, 01:49:45 PM
Tell me if I'm wrong but was the investment in Albion only the start of a program to develop the area? I say this because his main business is as s developer
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on January 29, 2017, 02:00:40 PM
Tell me if I'm wrong but was the investment in Albion only the start of a program to develop the area? I say this because his main business is as s developer
don't think his wealth will be enough to turn west brom into the garden of eden.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 30, 2017, 10:31:54 AM
Son of Peace i hear some cry, this guys only worth billions, what was Peace worth. i am sure he will spend a few quid in the summer months.Thats the best time to judge whether hes the son of Peace or not
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on February 01, 2017, 06:36:11 PM
As I am aware, Jeremy Peace is still working for the club for the 2016-17 season. He steps down at the end of the season, mind so far, with Williams and Lai I am yet to see anything that strikes me that they are going to change what the club has done for years. This window was another shocking window, signed Livermore and loaned Wilson. Wilson played 4 games in 18 months is it. How is that a upgrade on what we have got.

I'm yet to be convinced by this new board, nothing coming from Williams, Ie a statement to assure the fans that efforts were made to sign players this window. Plus we have heard one video message from Gouchan Lai since he acquired the club, not much coming from him at all, how about a video outlining his intentions for the club.

This club wont move on until the egghead Peace is finally gone for good, what is the point of Hammond as well. Pulis wont sign the players he recommends.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on February 01, 2017, 06:40:42 PM
is this your 5th topic in 3/4 days on this kinda subject? Why you are you so obsessed with spending money? did peace steal your wife?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on February 01, 2017, 06:45:31 PM
WoysWunderful - we have just been taken over and spent £10 million on Livermore. We sit eighth in the table, we should be looking to cement our place, plus you cant tell me we couldn't have improved by signing a CB, and striker.

Our squad is woefully short, I just don't think he can attract the players. Would you like to play for him, his football style is pooh, and the goals all come from set plays.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on February 01, 2017, 07:00:10 PM
I know the window was not what everyone wanted I understand that but Peace left the club on good financial footing. The new board needs time to get there points across and I can`t see why Mr Lai needs to outline his intentions to all, the Board will know his intentions are .Agree that Williams ought to make a statement and probably will in due course. As for changing the club why it`s not broken but on sound footing all I would ask is for a bit of leeway in the Transfer Window and as for style of play I think you will find more than half our goals have come from open play and I think we have some really decent players the last time I looked.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on February 01, 2017, 07:27:51 PM
Remember when we signed Phillips, Nyom and Robson-Kanu and people thought we were relegation fodder for sure?

What point do we stop complaining about things because of perceived disaster? Hindsight may be a wonderful thing, but getting inebriated off because you think something might happen means you close your eyes to the fact that we are 8th with a squad many people wrote off before a ball was kicked. The same people moaning we aren't consolidating 8th place by buying players (like they're linked!) will be those claiming we have nothing to play for but mid table mediocrity.

Our fans will find something, ANYTHING to complain about. I'll save my complaints for when we have something to complain about. Enjoy the rest of the season  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on February 02, 2017, 12:22:06 PM
I am very surprised that John Williams hasn't released a statement about this window, perhaps him and Pulis aren't on good terms again. It may appear in tomorrows program, Williams isn't very vocal for me, and Lai is pretty much none existent. ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 02, 2017, 12:31:27 PM
I'd much sooner Lai remain silent than be all over Twitter like that cretin at the Villa.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 02, 2017, 01:41:02 PM
I am very surprised that John Williams hasn't released a statement about this window, perhaps him and Pulis aren't on good terms again. It may appear in tomorrows program, Williams isn't very vocal for me, and Lai is pretty much none existent. ???

Having never personally met Mr Williams I cannot confirm this, but a friend who has had dealings with him on several occasions informs me he has no problem being vocal. The impression I got was that when on a roll he actually goes on a bit, but in a good and open way. I'm perfectly happy for him to say what he needs to behind closed doors, rather than running to the press when it suits him, and then keeping quiet when it doesn't like Gold and Sullivan when at the Blues.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on February 02, 2017, 01:49:19 PM
must have some loose change for another beer surely
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on February 02, 2017, 02:18:24 PM
I don`t no about beer but it gets a bit cold at this time of year how about a scarf :D
I don`t think the club need to be anymore vocal when they have something to say I am sure we will hear about it, but we seen to be sitting in a pretty good position at present and until that changes the club need not say much
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cornishbaggie on February 02, 2017, 02:26:23 PM
Happy with Livermore. Happy with Wilson. Happy that we didn't spend money on a load of tosh (Anelka, Anchibe etc.)

No excuses for the Summer now. I'm expecting 5 quality signings - £50m budget.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on February 03, 2017, 01:05:59 PM
Happy with Livermore. Happy with Wilson. Happy that we didn't spend money on a load of tosh (Anelka, Anchibe etc.)

No excuses for the Summer now. I'm expecting 5 quality signings - £50m budget.

No were near enough £££ if we want to sign "5 quality" players
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 03, 2017, 01:27:30 PM
No were near enough £££ if we want to sign "5 quality" players

Sorry to be a pedant, but,
I'd agree if you had said £50m is not enough for 5 PROVEN quality players.
It may be enough for 5 quality players though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on February 03, 2017, 05:17:40 PM
We could/should have loads to spend this summer
1. 25 million at least not spent from this season
2. 25 million from next years money
3. 25 million minimum from new owners
I really cant see why we cant spend close on 100 million
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on February 03, 2017, 05:23:24 PM
WoysWunderful - we have just been taken over and spent £10 million on Livermore. We sit eighth in the table, we should be looking to cement our place, plus you cant tell me we couldn't have improved by signing a CB, and striker.

Our squad is woefully short, I just don't think he can attract the players. Would you like to play for him, his football style is pooh, and the goals all come from set plays.

I think that's the main reason we haven't brought in loads of players. As mentioned in other threads when you look at teams bringing players in in January, especially this year, it's highly concentrated towards the bottom of the table
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on February 03, 2017, 05:26:19 PM
We could/should have loads to spend this summer
1. 25 million at least not spent from this season
2. 25 million from next years money
3. 25 million minimum from new owners
I really cant see why we cant spend close on 100 million
What am I not seeing here tylerm? that adds up to £6.75m where's the other £90+m coming from?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on February 03, 2017, 05:30:58 PM
What am I not seeing here tylerm? that adds up to £6.75m where's the other £90+m coming from?

Haha! took me a while
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on February 03, 2017, 06:59:16 PM
VERY CLEVER VAN58 made me smile
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 03, 2017, 07:03:10 PM
We could/should have loads to spend this summer
1. 25 million at least not spent from this season
2. 25 million from next years money
3. 25 million minimum from new owners
I really cant see why we cant spend close on 100 million

Why are the new owners putting up £25m for players?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on February 03, 2017, 07:08:22 PM
Sorry to be a pedant, but,
I'd agree if you had said £50m is not enough for 5 PROVEN quality players.
It may be enough for 5 quality players though.

Still not enough, which ever way you put it. 3 maybe. Average prem players are going for a average of £12-18 million each 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on February 03, 2017, 08:51:45 PM
Why are the new owners putting up £25m for players?

I think you must have spent too much time being brainwashed by Jeremy
There are clubs where owners invest some of their own money to progress. If our new owners don't what is the point ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 03, 2017, 10:17:36 PM
I think you must have spent too much time being brainwashed by Jeremy
There are clubs where owners invest some of their own money to progress. If our new owners don't what is the point ?


Ownership subsidy happens in the Championship because there is a prize of premier league football and as a prize there is something to aim at which offers some prospect of a return.

 In the post FFP world most Premier League Clubs are self financing. Of the 20 Premier League clubs most recent report accounts show a profit 15 made profits and 5 made a loss.

The point of ownership is to make a profit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on February 03, 2017, 10:26:59 PM
Ownership subsidy happens in the Championship because there is a prize of premier league football and as a prize there is something to aim at which offers some prospect of a return.

 In the post FFP world most Premier League Clubs are self financing. Of the 20 Premier League clubs most recent report accounts show a profit 15 made profits and 5 made a loss.

The point of ownership is to make a profit.
Yes if you are a Jeremy peace type owner,no if you are a Roman abramavich type owner.and we have been jeremied twice now
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 03, 2017, 11:08:17 PM
Yes if you are a Jeremy peace type owner,no if you are a Roman abramavich type owner.and we have been jeremied twice now

The Ambramavich type owner is largely a thing of the past even Ambramavich isn't subsidising Chelsea to any great extent.  If owners do use their personal wealth it is to underwrite if things go wrong rather than spend beyond the resources that the club has. e.g. Mike Ashley has propped up Newcastle financially this year by absorbing the likely losses incurred as a consequence of relegation but Newcastle will make money if and when they return to the Premier League.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on February 17, 2017, 08:14:37 PM
Has Lai learnt any English yet  ::) and when will be his next visit to the club, will we be seeing him again. ::). As West Brom bloggers have said, it would be great to see what his plans for the club are, I hope the next assembly we ask these questions to Williams if he is there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dudleylad on February 17, 2017, 08:27:59 PM
Id rather our owner leave the clubs running to our new chairman and ceo than have what Wolves, Villa and Blues have.

Self financing is still the way forward for a club like us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on February 17, 2017, 08:39:06 PM
Dudleylad I agree, I don't want a Xia who's on social media every minute 24-7 but I would like a statement from either him or Williams every so often out lining what they have planned for the club. Bar the very first interview Lai did when he brought the club, in Chinese, we have heard nothing from him. Williams hasn't really said a lot, admittedly the club are doing very well, so nothing to worry about much. The summer will tell us a lot, in a great position to hopefully attract a much better pool of players.

Its a shame we don't have anyone from above on social media mind, just to give us some inside info.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 06, 2017, 11:50:30 AM
The assembly mentioned new big screens are rumoured to be installed at the ground in the summer. Think this will brighten the stadium experience up a treat. Any idea when Lai is over for his next match  ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on March 06, 2017, 11:54:20 PM
an interesting article about football in china.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/875043847?-11200:789:0
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 07, 2017, 12:07:19 PM
an interesting article about football in china.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/875043847?-11200:789:0

I think Lai is slowly getting to grips with how a Premier League Football club is run, apparently Williams said in his last interview, Lai is a passionate Football fan and loves the sport. I think hopefully we have a good long term investor in the club. I do like the idea of a couple of big screens at the ground. Will certainly improve the atmosphere a bit. Hopefully some good investment on two or three stand out signings, everyone will be happy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 07, 2017, 12:07:55 PM
Any idea when he will be attending his next match  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on March 07, 2017, 09:59:29 PM
Looks like we will be a partner in a major football academy in china, looks like Lai is pushing us in the right direction over there.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/875306407?-11200:789:0
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on March 08, 2017, 08:32:05 AM
Still not enough, which ever way you put it. 3 maybe. Average prem players are going for a average of £12-18 million each

I would agree if we just spread £50m evenly over 5 players but we have already proved that we have the ability to find the likes of GMac, Yacob, Nyom, Mcclean , Phillips that we can find players who are at least average for far less than £10m.  Even Evans cost less.   I would like (and expect) to see us buy a few £5m gems (a few of which will be Chesters and Mcmanamans) and hopefully a £25m star who can make a big difference.  That would do me just fine.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on March 08, 2017, 06:38:40 PM
I would agree if we just spread £50m evenly over 5 players but we have already proved that we have the ability to find the likes of GMac, Yacob, Nyom, Mcclean , Phillips that we can find players who are at least average for far less than £10m.  Even Evans cost less.   I would like (and expect) to see us buy a few £5m gems (a few of which will be Chesters and Mcmanamans) and hopefully a £25m star who can make a big difference.  That would do me just fine.


Without a doubt there are a few gems still out there i mean we looked at Dele Alli (i believe) but were put off by the £5 million price tag. But most players stats are known by 99% of clubs throughout the world so when one is on the radar you have to be bold enough to take the chance.
we got some off the players you mention so cheap because of nearing the end of the current contracts or because of their age. We seem to be more at ease to sign players that fit into that category than on a player we less experience of top flight football.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 08, 2017, 08:19:19 PM
I'm encouraged by this news Gouchan Lai is building a Football academy in China. My only worry is, will the players be up to Premier League standard if we look to bring a few over, yes the Chinese League is improving rapidly, but the standard of their domestic players is poor, I've heard they are League One standard at best. ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on March 08, 2017, 08:41:08 PM
I'm encouraged by this news Gouchan Lai is building a Football academy in China. My only worry is, will the players be up to Premier League standard if we look to bring a few over, yes the Chinese League is improving rapidly, but the standard of their domestic players is poor, I've heard they are League One standard at best. ::)
Think its more to do with commercial gains and sponsorship and at the same time showcasing the club to the Chinese audience.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 10, 2017, 08:55:54 PM
Are we still exploring the chance of sponsorship on our sleeves, think Everton are looking in to doing it, if they are surely with us exploring China we should look to do it also. ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 10, 2017, 08:57:29 PM
Lai's wealth goes up every day on Wikipedia  ;D hopefully two or three big signings in the summer  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on March 10, 2017, 09:32:51 PM
Are we still exploring the chance of sponsorship on our sleeves, think Everton are looking in to doing it, if they are surely with us exploring China we should look to do it also. ;)
there are 7/10 clubs in the same deal. None named but some can't due to existing sponsorship rights.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 10, 2017, 11:57:32 PM
Lai's wealth goes up every day on Wikipedia  ;D hopefully two or three big signings in the summer  ;)

Sorry but the owners wealth has the square root of nothing to do with what we will or won't spend in the summer. All the indications are that Lai is not going to subsidise the club in the transfer market the money we spend will be what the club can generate from it's on going operations. Feel free to correct me if we go an a £100m plus spending spree but I fear you are going to be disappointed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on March 11, 2017, 12:42:36 AM
Any idea when he will be attending his next match  ::)

Next week against Arsenal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on March 11, 2017, 11:49:15 AM
 :D  Beginning to wish he would stay away has yet to see us win a match :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on March 11, 2017, 02:43:17 PM
doing a far far better fist  of a job for a foreigner running a west midlands pro football club than the 3 of our local rivals and long may it continue.knowing when not to interfere ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on March 11, 2017, 03:11:15 PM
The difference is Lai seems to appreciate his limitations in knowledge of running a football club so maintained a proper footballing infrastructure with people who know what they're doing. Villa's owner meanwhile is an egomaniac, and Wolves put their future as a business tool of Jorge Mendes. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 11, 2017, 07:21:55 PM
Sorry but the owners wealth has the square root of nothing to do with what we will or won't spend in the summer. All the indications are that Lai is not going to subsidise the club in the transfer market the money we spend will be what the club can generate from it's on going operations. Feel free to correct me if we go an a £100m plus spending spree but I fear you are going to be disappointed.

Again as I have said in previous messag s on this forum. What was the point of his takeover, if he's not going to try and push the club on for European Football. We will make something like £120 odd million from finishing in the top half and f your he Premier League. We should be looking at three or four top quality additions.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 11, 2017, 07:24:48 PM
Again as I have said in previous messag s on this forum. What was the point of his takeover, if he's not going to try and push the club on for European Football. We will make something like £120 odd million from finishing in the top half and f your he Premier League. We should be looking at three or four top quality additions.


You realise we are making a profit every year? He may just take that money out of the club, who knows? He might think he can make money from Albion rather than throwing more and more money at it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on March 11, 2017, 07:30:27 PM
The next transfer window will tell us all we need to know about Mr Lai. If all he wants is survival then TP is the man. Anything else and we will need a new coach.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 11, 2017, 07:56:09 PM
Again as I have said in previous messag s on this forum. What was the point of his takeover, if he's not going to try and push the club on for European Football. We will make something like £120 odd million from finishing in the top half and f your he Premier League. We should be looking at three or four top quality additions.

No we won't "make £120 odd million". We will RECEIVE £120m.  We pay out around 75% to 80% of our total income in wages. The rest of the cost of running the club, other than wages, needs to be paid out of this income.  We may well make £10m profit.  That doesn't go very far if buying three or four quality top quality additions.

Yes the new owners could inject more money to pay for buying those extra high quality players, but our actual income doesn't go up.  However the wage bill goes up considerably.  If 75% of our total income goes on wages, that's £90m.  Other expenses £20m, net profit £10m.  4 high quality players on £70k/week wages is an extra £14m a year of wages, so that takes us close to 90%, which is unsustainable.  It would also turn a £10m profit into a £4m loss, and that's even before amortization of the transfer fees of those 4 players.  That takes us into Financial Fair Play breach territory within a couple of years.

The reality is that we cannot spend too much more on wages than at present, and part of our squad enlargement needs to come from low-wage Academy players and bargains from elsewhere.  We can't afford to pay huge transfer fees which means we have to fish in the pond of players with 12-18 months left on their contracts, and we have to improve our scouting both on Europe and domestically to get value for money.  If we insist on fishing in the English pond then we will keep experiencing unproductive transfer windows like the last two.

It certainly isn't doom and gloom, but we have to up our recruitment game and broaden our horizons instead of taking the lazy route.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on March 11, 2017, 08:03:05 PM
Hope I am wrong but I think this maybe as good as it gets, not optimistic that our new owners will splash the cash or a league finish higher than where we are in the league now will get repeated. this team needs more investment than the league position suggests in particular it needs footballers not grafters .we've punched above our weight this year but without big investment and ambition attendances wont improve and there's a good chance they will fall without both. its like no mans land for us at the moment, to go forward needs courage and resources, lets see if our new owners leads from the front or lets us stagnate in the middle of nowhere.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 11, 2017, 10:10:35 PM
Big summer, we will certainly see if Gouchan Lai means business. If its three defeats on the spin next week against Arsenal, In a game that he is over for, then surely he will see the squad needs major investment. I hate this statement from Williams two of three signings that's it in the summer, the squad needs freshening up, and we need competition for places. ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 12, 2017, 01:46:37 AM
To early to judge new owners but they seem to be keeping to the JP  model of running the club, so I see no major investment in squad in the summer and Williams message is in line with this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on March 12, 2017, 09:29:54 AM
Big summer, we will certainly see if Gouchan Lai means business. If its three defeats on the spin next week against Arsenal, In a game that he is over for, then surely he will see the squad needs major investment. I hate this statement from Williams two of three signings that's it in the summer, the squad needs freshening up, and we need competition for places. ???

I disagree. We don't need the freshen up the squad we need 3 or 4 signings of the ilk of Evans, Chadli, Foster and so on and we need a LB, CB and striker , ideally a winger too so Chadli can play through the middle. Those signings would put Nyom over to RB, hopefully GMac and Dawson as back ups, Chadli behind the striker and see the likes of McClean, Moz and Fletcher being options from the bench/competition for places.

I don't see any need to sign more than 4 if nobody leaves. Quality over quantity
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 12, 2017, 08:35:31 PM
I disagree. We don't need the freshen up the squad we need 3 or 4 signings of the ilk of Evans, Chadli, Foster and so on and we need a LB, CB and striker , ideally a winger too so Chadli can play through the middle. Those signings would put Nyom over to RB, hopefully GMac and Dawson as back ups, Chadli behind the striker and see the likes of McClean, Moz and Fletcher being options from the bench/competition for places.

I don't see any need to sign more than 4 if nobody leaves. Quality over quantity

Course we need to bleeding freshen it up. My hill is a poor understudy, we need new full backs to push on the ones we've got. We need a good starter, or young up and comer to challenge G Mac. I also think a wide midfielder is needed, and a creative midfielder. I mean Morrison ain't getting no younger.

And like Williams said a striker really is a must. We've been scouting Balde Keita at Lazio, very highly thought of.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on March 12, 2017, 09:11:45 PM
A very good attacking midfielder & forward is where the big money should be spent £20-25 mill a piece
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on March 12, 2017, 09:35:21 PM
A very good attacking midfielder & forward is where the big money should be spent £20-25 mill a piece

Top class Left winger so chadli can go in the middle
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on March 12, 2017, 10:43:04 PM
Top class Left winger so chadli can go in the middle

I would like to see Chadli just behind the number 9 in a 4411 formation 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on March 13, 2017, 05:28:53 AM
Course we need to bleeding freshen it up. My hill is a poor understudy, we need new full backs to push on the ones we've got. We need a good starter, or young up and comer to challenge G Mac. I also think a wide midfielder is needed, and a creative midfielder. I mean Morrison ain't getting no younger.

And like Williams said a striker really is a must. We've been scouting Balde Keita at Lazio, very highly thought of.  ;)

I just don't think we'll see an overhaul. Yes we need 3/4 signings but i really can't see any more than that. I think we'll get a left back and may see Dawson move to the middle as back up/competition with GMac. I'd like a winger to move Chadli to the middle but then for me Chadli and Moz battling it out is good enough.

I mean the last couple of games haven't been good but you'd have to call the season a success to this point as a whole so a squad overhaul just won't happen. I think all our money needs to go on 3 or 4 top, top signings.

Charlie Taylor, Carvalho, Keita and a striker?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on March 13, 2017, 07:58:39 AM
I just don't think we'll see an overhaul. Yes we need 3/4 signings but i really can't see any more than that. I think we'll get a left back and may see Dawson move to the middle as back up/competition with GMac. I'd like a winger to move Chadli to the middle but then for me Chadli and Moz battling it out is good enough.

I mean the last couple of games haven't been good but you'd have to call the season a success to this point as a whole so a squad overhaul just won't happen. I think all our money needs to go on 3 or 4 top, top signings.

Charlie Taylor, Carvalho, Keita and a striker?!

Were never going to get Carvalho, but apart from that I'd agree with you, although I'd prefer Dawson as the 1st choice centre back and McAuley as the back up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 13, 2017, 09:07:23 AM
He may be the head of a consortium, but does that actually mean that money will be ploughed in?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 13, 2017, 02:40:50 PM
He has an estimated net wealth of £4 billion if you believe Wikipedia. But like you say that could be the consortiums wealth. I do know he's a very rich man, well by what they say. I'd love to know everything about the people involved in this Yuni Gukai Sports Devleopment but we don't have the facts.

Big summer, we'll see if he means business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on March 13, 2017, 04:36:09 PM
If he means business Didn`t get his billion`s at his young age bye throwing money away he must be a very astute business man and in my opinion will only do what the Board think is right by the club if he is to spend X amount on a player I think he will but he won`t throw 100 mill as some would like him to do
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 13, 2017, 06:20:56 PM
Hey guys,if Mr.Lai indeed does have 4 billion,consider this,a Chinese businessman who wishes to break into Europe a very cheap way to advertise his company is on the shirts and stadium of his football club.
4 thousand millions = 4 billion,if he spent £150 million on wba with top players and we got into European matches and had some regular success that would be considered to be a very cheap way of getting his company known and also bringing great football to us fans.
Win win eh?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 13, 2017, 06:28:00 PM
Im not saying a £100 million spend. Im more looking at a 40-50 million. Good striker. Left back, and midfielder. Well see in the summer. ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on March 13, 2017, 09:23:01 PM
Im not saying a £100 million spend. Im more looking at a 40-50 million. Good striker. Left back, and midfielder. Well see in the summer. ::)

Wernt you saying 30-40 mil at the weekend? make your mind up
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 13, 2017, 10:01:25 PM
Has Lai seen us win a match yet  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on March 13, 2017, 10:17:07 PM
Has Lai seen us win a match yet  ::)

Why does it matter if he has or hasn't? He comes when he can, and we have John Williams running the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on March 13, 2017, 10:24:22 PM
I think jimbo is in love all he talks about is Mr Lai and Mr Pulis I think he`s after the money
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 14, 2017, 04:23:57 PM
Why does it matter if he has or hasn't? He comes when he can, and we have John Williams running the club.

I want an owner who's there watching us every week, ok Williams sees the games, but he's not the one pulling the strings. We don't want an owner who never bothers watching us, not for one minute am I saying Lai will be like this, as he has attended games, and I've been told form a member of staff at the club he's football through and through. Yes he has a lot of business interests back Home in China. But Randy Lerner had businesses in America, look how he treated the Vile. I hope in time, Lai resides over here, and does his business from these shores.

Think in a years time from now, we can give a good picture of how things are working out with his ownership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BRIAN on March 14, 2017, 04:45:11 PM
Why  should he fulfil you demands? He is the owner and can do as he pleases. His business interests are bigger and probably more important than WBA. He has appointed someone to look after WBA so we should be happy for that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba13 on March 14, 2017, 05:08:21 PM
We can`t expect Mr Lai to reside over here he has bigger fish to fry in China thats Where his vast wealth is made  I believe he has done the right thing by appointing a Chinese person to the board to oversee all that goes on at the Hawthorns
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on March 14, 2017, 05:14:45 PM
I want an owner who's there watching us every week, ok Williams sees the games, but he's not the one pulling the strings. We don't want an owner who never bothers watching us, not for one minute am I saying Lai will be like this, as he has attended games, and I've been told form a member of staff at the club he's football through and through. Yes he has a lot of business interests back Home in China. But Randy Lerner had businesses in America, look how he treated the Vile. I hope in time, Lai resides over here, and does his business from these shores.

Think in a years time from now, we can give a good picture of how things are working out with his ownership.
How did Lerner treat the Vile? From what I can see he massively overspent in the market for little gain (arguably something you've been advocating for the last few days) then tried to recoup some of it when he realised that it was a dumb move and lost out massively.

This is why you have another person as chairman, so they deal with the day to day and you can focus elsewhere. Something Lerner and Dr Tony have both ignored at their own peril.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on March 14, 2017, 10:05:40 PM
How did Lerner treat the Vile? From what I can see he massively overspent in the market for little gain (arguably something you've been advocating for the last few days) then tried to recoup some of it when he realised that it was a dumb move and lost out massively.

This is why you have another person as chairman, so they deal with the day to day and you can focus elsewhere. Something Lerner and Dr Tony have both ignored at their own peril.

He spent, then as soon as they were in Europe he cut back, they dished out ridiculous contracts to mediocre players. Think we have a safe pair of hands with Williams, plus think this Goodman will be a good CEO. I just hope Lai give us the backing this summer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on March 14, 2017, 10:08:03 PM
He spent, then as soon as they were in Europe he cut back, they dished out ridiculous contracts to mediocre players. Think we have a safe pair of hands with Williams, plus think this Goodman will be a good CEO. I just hope Lai give us the backing this summer.

Fortunately we do, rather than an internet blowhard.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 15, 2017, 07:04:50 AM
Thus far the club is being run pretty much the same way that Peace ran it. Lai has not sanctioned spending beyond the club's means and until he does then I think it is safe to assume that he won't.

The club is probably on course to make a significant profit this year regardless of where we finish in the league. I would be surprised if it is less than £20m and it might be as much as £30m. This would be typical for the first year of the new TV contract under Peace, who then reinvested the profit back into the club over the course of the next two years.

Peace did this with a view to realising a long term profit as the TV contract grew through the sale of the club. Lai might also be playing the same game or alternatively he could take the profit in the form of a dividend. Until the next set of accounts is published we won't know.

Lai may have some grander strategic objectives which owning the club contributes to be that influence in China or expansion of his business interests into the UK and Europe but at the moment that isn't clear.

Until something significant changes then I think fans had better view him as a businessman owning a business rather than benefactor who is going to make all their dreams come true .

All that said there will be funds available to strengthen and no doubt the wage bill will increase but only because there is a lot of money swilling through the club because of the TV contract.

Finally it really doesn't matter whether he is here or not provided he allows the local board to get on with the day to day running of the club, which appears to be the case at the moment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 15, 2017, 07:53:40 AM
Thus far the club is being run pretty much the same way that Peace ran it. Lai has not sanctioned spending beyond the club's means and until he does then I think it is safe to assume that he won't.

The club is probably on course to make a significant profit this year regardless of where we finish in the league. I would be surprised if it is less than £20m and it might be as much as £30m. This would be typical for the first year of the new TV contract under Peace, who then reinvested the profit back into the club over the course of the next two years.

Peace did this with a view to realising a long term profit as the TV contract grew through the sale of the club. Lai might also be playing the same game or alternatively he could take the profit in the form of a dividend. Until the next set of accounts is published we won't know.

Lai may have some grander strategic objectives which owning the club contributes to be that influence in China or expansion of his business interests into the UK and Europe but at the moment that isn't clear.

Until something significant changes then I think fans had better view him as a businessman owning a business rather than benefactor who is going to make all their dreams come true .

All that said there will be funds available to strengthen and no doubt the wage bill will increase but only because there is a lot of money swilling through the club because of the TV contract.

Finally it really doesn't matter whether he is here or not provided he allows the local board to get on with the day to day running of the club, which appears to be the case at the moment.

Cracking, well balanced and common sense post.

Thank you  8) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 15, 2017, 08:31:00 AM
Thus far the club is being run pretty much the same way that Peace ran it. Lai has not sanctioned spending beyond the club's means and until he does then I think it is safe to assume that he won't.

The club is probably on course to make a significant profit this year regardless of where we finish in the league. I would be surprised if it is less than £20m and it might be as much as £30m. This would be typical for the first year of the new TV contract under Peace, who then reinvested the profit back into the club over the course of the next two years.

Peace did this with a view to realising a long term profit as the TV contract grew through the sale of the club. Lai might also be playing the same game or alternatively he could take the profit in the form of a dividend. Until the next set of accounts is published we won't know.

Lai may have some grander strategic objectives which owning the club contributes to be that influence in China or expansion of his business interests into the UK and Europe but at the moment that isn't clear.

Until something significant changes then I think fans had better view him as a businessman owning a business rather than benefactor who is going to make all their dreams come true .

All that said there will be funds available to strengthen and no doubt the wage bill will increase but only because there is a lot of money swilling through the club because of the TV contract.

Finally it really doesn't matter whether he is here or not provided he allows the local board to get on with the day to day running of the club, which appears to be the case at the moment.


I'm not sure that Guochuan Lai has the vast amount of wealth that some claim. As I understand it, he is backed, with promised investment, to the tune of around £2.8billion, for the Eco Town projects in China.

I also think he sees WBAFC as a stand alone project, which generates it's own profits.

 On the other hand, I can't see that he would want WBAFC to remain as a mediocre mid table Premier League Club, especially if he wants to improve our own, & subsequently his, global profile. On that basis, I expect to see some investment in better players over a series of seasons, either bought in or through our academy.

As things stand at the moment, our best chance of winning something is through the domestic cup competitions, so I would expect us to make a better fist of them next season.

As far as current personnel are concerned, I would expect that they will be given an opportunity to deliver Mr Lai's expectations, if they don't, undoubtedly they will be replaced.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 19, 2017, 01:27:34 PM
Hey guys,just wondering why he hasn't commented or our chairman on our great win yesterday.
Seems the perfect time to big up the team/club in UK and China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on March 19, 2017, 02:01:53 PM
Hey guys,just wondering why he hasn't commented or our chairman on our great win yesterday.
Seems the perfect time to big up the team/club in UK and China.

I don't think he will. He's an investor nothing more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 19, 2017, 02:06:22 PM
Doesn't he have any pride? I think he does,I think this fella is clever and we will benefit from it.
The chairman isn't an investor he should at least comment don't you think?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 19, 2017, 02:27:19 PM
I think that being too bullish tends to back fire, far better to take the long view and let the media do its job and recognise the clubs achievement at the end of the season, which could include

Top chinese owned club in EPL,
Top club in midlands,
Flagship tour of China ....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 19, 2017, 02:34:13 PM
Yes albionic I see what your saying,but this is Arsenal that we beat,bang our Chinese drum,I say.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on March 19, 2017, 02:41:48 PM
Yes albionic I see what your saying,but this is Arsenal that we beat,bang our Chinese drum,I say.
it'll be buried under how poor Arsenal were as we've already seen. bang that drum as loud as you like, no one will hear you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 19, 2017, 02:46:26 PM
But they will hear it in China won't they!
That's the important bit,get our profile up!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on March 19, 2017, 03:37:33 PM
Why would they feel the need to comment specifically on the win yesterday? We are in this league to do all we can to try and compete with the best it's not like it's a one off cup game where we've really defied the odds somewhat it's just another league game regardless of who the opposition was. Would come off as a little small time to me if the owner or chairman only commented on games where we pull of a surprise result against one of the big boys.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 19, 2017, 04:01:23 PM
Don't forget were only 7points off the top 6,that's impressive for Mr.Lai first season should we finish in 7 the position,isn't 7 the lucky number in China?
Remember that we are unbeaten in two thirds of all our matches this season.
I think that's impressive,the Chinese kids will think the same,get our shirts in their shops,hey Mr.lai sell them in your garden centres get us known.
 Buy a couple of top players in the summer and take them on tour,spread the word in that part of the world.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on March 19, 2017, 04:19:17 PM
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/03/19/thumbs-up-guochuan-lai-west-brom-owner-salutes-fans-on-the-m40-after-arsenal-win/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/03/19/thumbs-up-guochuan-lai-west-brom-owner-salutes-fans-on-the-m40-after-arsenal-win/)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on March 19, 2017, 04:22:30 PM
Don't forget were only 7points off the top 6,that's impressive for Mr.Lai first season should we finish in 7 the position,isn't 7 the lucky number in China?
Remember that we are unbeaten in two thirds of all our matches this season.
I think that's impressive,the Chinese kids will think the same,get our shirts in their shops,hey Mr.lai sell them in your garden centres get us known.
 Buy a couple of top players in the summer and take them on tour,spread the word in that part of the world.

To be fair the team in 6th has 2 games in hand on us..

Nothing wrong with bigging us up at the end of the season though when we've secured the position. I'd imagine it would make more sense to sell the next season's shirt rather than this one that will only be valid for 9 more games.

All of this would be far better accomplished during a pre-season tour or in the summer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 19, 2017, 04:33:33 PM
If there are one billion Chinese people and if Mr.Lai could sell a shirt to only 1 percent of the population,if I've got my maths correct that's 10 million shirts @ how much each equals,a lot of money and fans,it's an important place to do business is China.
Let's have some,I say.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on March 19, 2017, 04:41:28 PM
If there are one billion Chinese people and if Mr.Lai could sell a shirt to only 1 percent of the population,if I've got my maths correct that's 10 million shirts @ how much each equals,a lot of money and fans,it's an important place to do business is China.
Let's have some,I say.

Oh I agree. Was saying they'd more likely target next season as we've only got 9 games left, and we'd be able to use our finishing position/new signings/tour/pre-season friendlies to help
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 19, 2017, 04:50:44 PM
Of course next season's shirts, incedentally is 10 million times say £50 per shirt equals £500 million!? Or is my mental arithmetic failing me?
Makes you think though doesn't it,
.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 19, 2017, 05:14:53 PM
Of course next season's shirts, incedentally is 10 million times say £50 per shirt equals £500 million!? Or is my mental arithmetic failing me?
Makes you think though doesn't it,
.


There is something of a wealth divide in China, try 0.05% of the population as a decent target for shirt sales. Or using your figures £25 million. Which is still unlikely imo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 19, 2017, 05:44:12 PM

There is something of a wealth divide in China, try 0.05% of the population as a decent target for shirt sales. Or using your figures £25 million. Which is still unlikely imo.
I doubt 0.05% of the population have heard of WBAFC, yet alone have the price of a shirt as disposable income, highest wages in China are in Shanghai@ £250 / month average.  In the country its vastly lower at £900 / YEAR
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 19, 2017, 06:14:36 PM
I wouldn't expect executive comment on any result good bad or indifferent. Promoting the club in China is a long term objective and in the absence of something truly remarkable happening (think Leicester here) it's going to take 5 years to build anything worthwhile. A good result barely scratches the surface.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 19, 2017, 07:22:40 PM
I get that,but when you're up,take advantage,tell people about our club,be proud.you must start somewhere.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggy nerd on March 19, 2017, 11:18:52 PM
Hey guys,just wondering why he hasn't commented or our chairman on our great win yesterday.
Seems the perfect time to big up the team/club in UK and China.
The one thing we do not want is an owner who is commenting all the time. It always ends in disaster. The best owners are the ruthless/quiet types like at Chelsea/Leicester.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RuncornBaggie on March 20, 2017, 11:16:11 AM
Don't forget were only 7points off the top 6,that's impressive for Mr.Lai first season should we finish in 7 the position,isn't 7 the lucky number in China?
Remember that we are unbeaten in two thirds of all our matches this season.
I think that's impressive,the Chinese kids will think the same,get our shirts in their shops,hey Mr.lai sell them in your garden centres get us known.
 Buy a couple of top players in the summer and take them on tour,spread the word in that part of the world.

8 Is the chinese lucky number. 

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on March 20, 2017, 12:59:31 PM
8 Is the chinese lucky number.
Indeed it is. Now if we could get Demba Ba and get him to wear number 8 we'd be laughing (Ba is how 8 is pronounced).
That is a joke before anyone says anything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on March 20, 2017, 02:33:26 PM
Nothing major, just found this picture hilarious. Taken after the Arsenal game

(http://www.expressandstar.com/wpmvc/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/lai-lead.jpg)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on March 21, 2017, 09:41:55 AM
Great pic.

And just to clarify:
    2 (二, ÈR) - LUCKY. The Chinese believe that doubles bring blessings. ...
    3 (三, SÄ€N) - LUCKY. ...
    4 (å››, SÃŒ) - UNLUCKY. ...
    5 (五, WÇ“) - LUCKY/UNLUCKY. ...
    6 (å…­, LIÙ) - LUCKY. ...
    7 七, QĪ- LUCKY/UNLUCKY. ...
    8 (å…«, BÄ€) - LUCKY. ...
    9 (九, JIÇ“) - LUCKY.

Seven is lucky in Japan however. Not that that helps.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 21, 2017, 09:57:50 AM
Hey ex cosely kid,thanks for that info,it's very interesting.
I think I was getting my Japanese lucky numbers mixed up with my Chinese lucky numbers in an earlier post.
Let's stay in 8th in the league for this season we need all the luck we can get,let's hope it helps with our summer signings,eh?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on March 21, 2017, 12:31:24 PM
Great pic.

And just to clarify:
    2 (二, ÈR) - LUCKY. The Chinese believe that doubles bring blessings. ...
    3 (三, SÄ€N) - LUCKY. ...
    4 (å››, SÃŒ) - UNLUCKY. ...
    5 (五, WÇ“) - LUCKY/UNLUCKY. ...
    6 (å…­, LIÙ) - LUCKY. ...
    7 七, QĪ- LUCKY/UNLUCKY. ...
    8 (å…«, BÄ€) - LUCKY. ...
    9 (九, JIÇ“) - LUCKY.

Seven is lucky in Japan however. Not that that helps.  ;)

We'd better make that push to 7th then!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on March 23, 2017, 12:38:53 AM
Nothing major, just found this picture hilarious. Taken after the Arsenal game

(http://www.expressandstar.com/wpmvc/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/lai-lead.jpg)

Just seen the story confirm that it was actually him. Didn't think it was from the original picture!

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/03/19/thumbs-up-guochuan-lai-west-brom-owner-salutes-fans-on-the-m40-after-arsenal-win/

Great to see
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aixelsyd on April 03, 2017, 04:02:42 AM
an interesting twitter post from Dr Tony Xia...

Asked by a Coventry supporter if he had any friends who would buy them.

His answer:
@Dr_TonyXia
As Chinese government doesn't allow exchange foreign currency2buy football clubs, difficult2get any buyers now. We're lucky done last year.


So were we lucky too?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 03, 2017, 06:47:58 AM
an interesting twitter post from Dr Tony Xia...

Asked by a Coventry supporter if he had any friends who would buy them.

His answer:
@Dr_TonyXia
As Chinese government doesn't allow exchange foreign currency2buy football clubs, difficult2get any buyers now. We're lucky done last year.

So were we lucky too?

No Peace was lucky there was a window where the Chinese could buy foreign clubs and that would appear to be closed.

It is easy to lose sight of the fact that China is a one party state and ultimately even the very wealthiest of it's citizens do have to tow the party line.

It will be interesting to see if the Chinese authorities allow those investors who have bought loss making clubs to prop them up with additional equity. Equally those looking to Lai to throw millions at the club were quite likely to be disappointed but I would guess it is even less likely now.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 03, 2017, 08:30:13 AM
Lets hope hes got his cheque book out, we need to spend big this summer
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on April 03, 2017, 08:53:46 AM
Just seen the story confirm that it was actually him. Didn't think it was from the original picture!

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/03/19/thumbs-up-guochuan-lai-west-brom-owner-salutes-fans-on-the-m40-after-arsenal-win/

Great to see

Is he sat on a booster seat?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggy nerd on April 03, 2017, 10:34:38 AM
Lets hope hes got his cheque book out, we need to spend big this summer

I wouldn't bother! We've got to 8th (probably our optimum position) without spending big.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on April 03, 2017, 06:52:35 PM
Isn't Pulis meeting him to discuss the summers transfer budget soon, according to the Telegraph. Ive heard centre back, winger, and a striker he wants.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on April 03, 2017, 09:23:04 PM
From the latest NBC episode, was great to see him at the club for the Arsenal game. Looked to be getting really involved with the kids/mascots and players after the game. Couldn't help but notice how small he is!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on April 03, 2017, 10:53:21 PM
That really is a wonderfully joyous picture of our owner - it's difficult to decide whether to bounce him on your knee...or confront him about next years budget! Maybe both would work?!!  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on April 04, 2017, 10:55:32 AM
Article in the Express & Dingle, Pulis saying Lai only attends games against the better top half sides. So this gives him an outline of what is needed to stay there and compete. Hopefully we add a couple of marque signings this summer, would be nice. Think we will see a change in our transfer strategy this summer. Pulis has already said he wants a CB, Winger and striker or two. Hopefully an exciting summer of transfer activity. ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on April 04, 2017, 11:29:51 AM
I kind of DON'T want to see stories about how we've got £xxxxx to spend, that'll just inflate prices, I hope we can rummage about under the radar and get another few Chadli/Rondon/Nyom type signings
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on April 04, 2017, 12:00:01 PM
you get a good glimpse of Mr Lai in the 4th episode of West Brom behind the badge ep 4 see link for download in relevant thread
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on April 04, 2017, 05:17:41 PM
Lets hope hes got his cheque book out, we need to spend big this summer
We need to spend correct and in a sensible manner , there are bargains out there still.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on April 04, 2017, 05:23:12 PM
You could argue that he's just seen us beat Arsenal 3-1, so may feel the need to not splash the cash wildly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on April 04, 2017, 06:19:51 PM
Id rather we didnt throw our money about, it rarely works. Look how much city had to spend and the turnover of players they had before they became who they am.

Sensible signings please.

Fans obsession with spending money seemingly for the sake of it baffles me.

We have to remember football isnt actually like fifa or football manager and our prudent methods havent let us down yet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on April 04, 2017, 06:21:20 PM
Look at the summer and winter transfer markets this year for example. Fans were going off there heads over them, and were now in 8th, and every player signed has been fantastic value for money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on April 04, 2017, 10:23:22 PM
Look at the summer and winter transfer markets this year for example. Fans were going off there heads over them, and were now in 8th, and every player signed has been fantastic value for money.

Chadli 🤔 still to be convinced. Good start but gone of a bit. Not denying a good player. But hit and miss, too much.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on April 04, 2017, 10:24:34 PM
Shame Lai doesnt watch all the games. Having watched that pooh tonight. Hed have seen we need players. I watched it and it was shocking.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on April 05, 2017, 12:03:52 AM
Chadli 🤔 still to be convinced. Good start but gone of a bit. Not denying a good player. But hit and miss, too much.

I agree with you, big money signing but hasn't played to the standards of our other new players. That's how it seems to usually work with us, hence my reluctance for us to just throw money about.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on April 05, 2017, 08:06:33 PM
So according to Pulis, Lai only attends the big games. Well the next two Home matches are, Southampton (Sat), then next Sunday against Liverpool. Is Lai over for both matches ?? ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 07, 2017, 07:32:57 AM
Article from the Express & Star

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/04/06/west-brom-have-massive-financial-opportunity-in-china-says-chief-executive/

West Brom have massive financial opportunity in China, says chief executive
Albion’s chief executive says the Baggies have a ‘massive opportunity’ to grow their revenue from China following last year’s takeover.

Martin Goodman, speaking to the press for the first time since he took over from Mark Jenkins on January 1, says the large financial gap between Albion and the top six clubs shouldn’t stop them striving for the top.

According to the last available financial figures, five of the top six clubs rake in at least three times what the Baggies do each year and Tottenham’s revenue is more than double that of Albion's £98million.

Each Premier League club’s revenue is set to rocket this year after the £5.14billion TV deal comes into play, but Goodman says the key lies elsewhere.

He hopes Albion will soon start to benefit from more and more commercial deals in the Far East.

“The art for this business is to grow our non-media income because all the clubs get the media income,” he said. “Let’s call it around £100m for a mid-table team. The difference is, if a club has got £50m of non-media money they can do far more than a club that’s got £30m.

“China is potentially a massive market for us and we are working with the ownership to determine the scale and opportunities that are there.”

The former Stoke and Blackburn director has already been to Shanghai on two separate occasions to meet owner Guochuan Lai.

And he confirmed Albion’s owner, who bought the club for £175m last summer, is happy with the way this season has gone.

“In the three months I have been here I have been to China twice to visit Mr Lai,” he said. “And Mr Lai comes over for a number of games for a meeting when he is here in the UK. The lines of communications are pretty good.

“When I was there ten days ago he was over the moon with the performances of the team and the way things are going.”

Goodman previously worked with chairman John Williams at Blackburn as a finance director, where the pair enjoyed 13 years together.

Albion’s chief is hoping to recreate some of those successes in the Black Country. Although he reckons it has grown tougher to finish in the top six, he’s still optimistic it can be done.

“We had some UEFA Cup runs in places like Salzburg and Vilnius and so on,” he said. “In 2002 we won a League Cup final in Cardiff against Spurs, and also enjoyed a few top six finishes.

“But the game has moved on in the six years since we worked together.

“With the exception of last year and Leicester, the top six is just getting stronger and it becomes harder to break into that top six.

“You have just got to look at the UK revenue flows - plus the UEFA revenue - the gap is just massive. Not that it should stop us trying to get there.

“Leicester did it last year, which was fantastic. We have got to go for that and we have got to go for extended cup runs.

“It would be nice to do both, a top ten finish each year and a domestic cup run.”


A few things of note CEO & owner are in monthly meetings which is fine, in that it means owner is letting the local board getting on with the job but is not disinterested.

Unspecific Chinese commercial opportunities are where we can grow our revenues which is to be expected but obviously that won't happen over night.

Talks of top 10 finish and domestic cup runs, which is what most realistic fans would hope for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: albion61 on April 07, 2017, 09:38:27 AM
hes also taking all the clubs memorabilia thats just threw in as large room, to put in the foyers of his hotels around china to raise our profile
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on April 07, 2017, 10:14:13 AM
hes also taking all the clubs memorabilia thats just threw in as large room, to put in the foyers of his hotels around china to raise our profile
Don't think ALL the memorabilia is going. Lots of stuff is being catalogued for new web site.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on April 07, 2017, 01:08:09 PM
I have never thought about this before, but,

As "owners' of the club, presumably the chinese could strip out and take all the clubs historical memorabilia to china and keep it there in perpituity.  (a la Elgin marbles???)

That thought is more than a bit dis-quieting isn't it !

What is the club beyond its fand / ground / history? We all know what can happen with grounds (see Boleyn ground) really all thats left is the fans!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 07, 2017, 11:40:31 PM
I have never thought about this before, but,

As "owners' of the club, presumably the chinese could strip out and take all the clubs historical memorabilia to china and keep it there in perpetuity.  (a la Elgin marbles???)

That thought is more than a bit dis-quieting isn't it !

What is the club beyond its fand / ground / history? We all know what can happen with grounds (see Boleyn ground) really all thats left is the fans!

Yes they could but why would they? The club's memorabilia outside the context of the club and the place it's from is just a bunch of old tat.

I think you will find they are far more interested in the here and now. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: albion59 on April 08, 2017, 12:11:39 AM
I have never thought about this before, but,

As "owners' of the club, presumably the chinese could strip out and take all the clubs historical memorabilia to china and keep it there in perpituity.  (a la Elgin marbles???)

That thought is more than a bit dis-quieting isn't it !

What is the club beyond its fand / ground / history? We all know what can happen with grounds (see Boleyn ground) really all thats left is the fans!
He can't take the memorabilia anywhere, most of it is loaned to the club by ex/old players or ex old player's family's. I have more Albion memorabilia than the club do anyway!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on April 08, 2017, 06:49:16 AM
I love to see the well battered knitted woollen goalie's jumper displayed in one of the event suites that I get to see most Christmases.
Always makes me think of the 'jumpers for goal posts' footie games in the local rec of my long ago youth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 08, 2017, 08:19:27 PM
Over to you if you want thousands to renew
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on April 08, 2017, 08:27:53 PM
Over to you if you want thousands to renew

On course for our best ever Premier League season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on April 08, 2017, 08:31:38 PM
Not sure what he can personally do?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on April 09, 2017, 10:13:20 AM
On course for our best ever Premier League season.
doubt we'll get over that line, 2nd ain't bad though!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 09, 2017, 10:37:06 AM
Lai controls the budget so obviously has a huge influence over the club, but it is the local board that make the day to day decisions. In terms of boosting renewal's on season tickets there are two things that need sorting first pricing and secondly signings which seems to be the be all and end all of modern football.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 09, 2017, 11:43:56 AM
The powers that be need to invest big time in the summer as we are short all over the park, hope this owner isn't the Chinese version of jp.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on April 10, 2017, 06:38:30 PM
Pulis said he wanted, five to six signings, over to you Mr Lai. Lets hope this meeting they have planned, has the right outcome, and Tony is backed with the money to get these players in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lindenbaggie on April 10, 2017, 06:57:13 PM
Pulis said he wanted, five to six signings, over to you Mr Lai. Lets hope this meeting they have planned, has the right outcome, and Tony is backed with the money to get these players in.

I could be wrong here, but haven't the Chinese government recently imposed restrictions on how much capital will be allowed out of the country for Lai and other Chinese owners? If this is true, we're in for more interesting but testing times. I'm not expecting more than the usual.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimbo Baggy on April 10, 2017, 07:04:55 PM
We'll make about 100-120 Million from finishing 8-10th. Five to six signings, say about £10 million each, £50-60 Million. Sure we should be able to sanction that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 10, 2017, 07:16:29 PM
We'll make about 100-120 Million from finishing 8-10th. Five to six signings, say about £10 million each, £50-60 Million. Sure we should be able to sanction that.


Our wage bill is circa £90 million...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on April 10, 2017, 07:18:40 PM
We'll make about 100-120 Million from finishing 8-10th. Five to six signings, say about £10 million each, £50-60 Million. Sure we should be able to sanction that.

On paper maybe, but you've got to remember the wages etc as well as the transfer fees.

6 new signings for example on £50k a week is £300k each week just on the new signings. That comes to another £15.6 million each year just on those new signings. Add that to the current squad wages which last year was around 74% (£73m) of our overall turnover (£98.3m).

I think a few will still need to be moved on to accommodate new signings on decent wages, otherwise we'll begin to pay out more than we're bringing in which could be quite dangerous for a club of our size.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on May 30, 2017, 07:02:06 PM
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/887782692?-11200:789:0

interesting that he doesn't take a salary.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on May 30, 2017, 07:36:42 PM
So far lai seems a decent bloke. However I'm hoping in time he pushed the boat out and we get deals done a little more quickly. That's what I hoped for when we were bought. We pushed the boat out a little bit more and we got deals done quicker. If that doesn't happen then from a selfish point of view there was little point to the takeover, apart from Jeremy getting rich.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 30, 2017, 08:26:05 PM
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/887782692?-11200:789:0

interesting that he doesn't take a salary.

He's not a director or employee of WBAFC or any of the associated companies, therefore he can't take a salary. As a shareholder, he would be entitled to a dividend on any profit the company made.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 1954 on May 30, 2017, 09:55:41 PM
From comments made by various club executives it's my understanding that :

1. Lai is not drawing a salary & does not plan to take a dividend ( this year at least)
2. Lai is not putting any money towards this year's transfer budget, it's all internally generated by the club!
3. Because of Financial Fair Play rules we will only be able to increase players' wages this coming season by £7million to £77 million.
4. The constraint of the FFP rules also explain why the club operates with such a small squad. The club's chosen policy is to pay high wages to a smaller number of players, thereby not breaking the FFP rules
5. However, would you believe Peace is still drawing a salary. He continues to take the club for as much money as he can!  :o
As if he has not taken enough out of our club's coffers. Get him off the payroll asap!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 30, 2017, 10:40:04 PM
From comments made by various club executives it's my understanding that :

1. Lai is not drawing a salary & does not plan to take a dividend ( this year at least)
2. Lai is not putting any money towards this year's transfer budget, it's all internally generated by the club!
3. Because of Financial Fair Play rules we will only be able to increase players' wages this coming season by £7million to £77 million.
4. The constraint of the FFP rules also explain why the club operates with such a small squad. The club's chosen policy is to pay high wages to a smaller number of players, thereby not breaking the FFP rules
5. However, would you believe Peace is still drawing a salary. He continues to take the club for as much money as he can!  :o
As if he has not taken enough out of our club's coffers. Get him off the payroll asap!


Part of the acquisition agreement was that JP would be retained in a consultancy capacity for a year, As I understand it, the agreement comes to an end on 30th June 2017.
I'm not sure he draws a salary, it's more likely to be a consultancy fee.

If you visit companies house website, you'll see that Guochuan Lai is not named as a director or officer of WBAFC or any of the associated companies, so he's not allowed to take a salary,
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 31, 2017, 12:18:01 AM
Always  new peace  was a money grabbing  so and so, roll on June 30th  when he will have no more involvement  with club.  Over to you now Mr lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BRIAN on May 31, 2017, 07:48:53 AM
If you want to abuse Peace you can, but he kept WBA in a decent state. Have a look at how our neighbours are getting along. I would call him "Our Saviour." Maybe he worked hard to make the money he did as he was not born with the "proverbial silver spoon in his mouth." Just remember the facts and be grateful.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 31, 2017, 08:15:21 AM
If you want to abuse Peace you can, but he kept WBA in a decent state. Have a look at how our neighbours are getting along. I would call him "Our Saviour." Maybe he worked hard to make the money he did as he was not born with the "proverbial silver spoon in his mouth." Just remember the facts and be grateful.

You are right Brian, he did a lot of work and put us in the position we are in today, but he has been handsomely rewarded for it........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on May 31, 2017, 09:03:11 AM
You are right Brian, he did a lot of work and put us in the position we are in today, but he has been handsomely rewarded for it........

Well wouldn't anyone expect to be, what do people think he should do it for the crack and out of the goodness of his heart. It's. it like the money he has received over the years has held us back. As sad as it is we pretty much hit our ceiling of 8th position under him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 31, 2017, 09:58:31 AM
I'm not sure why people are getting excited about JP's involvement?

He's been acting as an advisor for the last 12 months, that's all. It's sensible to retain somebody with an intimate knowledge of the football club & the market during the transition period.

As was once said to me "Advisors advise, Managers manage", so although JP may have offered advice, he wouldn't have been involved in the decision making process.

Also can't see why it's a problem for him to be paid a consultancy fee, if the club had hired an external consultancy firm, they would have been paid a fee.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NathWBA on May 31, 2017, 10:11:00 AM
I don't see the issue with him being paid a consultancy fee, if a window cleaner sold his house you wouldn't expect him to go back every week and clean it's windows free of charge every week, I don't expect him to stick around and offer advice free of charge.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 1954 on May 31, 2017, 11:08:21 AM
I seriously doubt anyone would have sought his advice if it was on a normal consultancy contract whereby if you don't do anything you do not get paid. However I suspect greedy Peace got it written into his sale contract that he would continue to be paid at the same exorbitant rate for 1year following the sale. Total waste of money that could have been spent on improving the playing squad. And as for paying Mark Jenkins £912k p.a. plus £20k p.a. into his pension scheme.......... >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 31, 2017, 11:36:38 AM
If you want to abuse Peace you can, but he kept WBA in a decent state. Have a look at how our neighbours are getting along. I would call him "Our Saviour." Maybe he worked hard to make the money he did as he was not born with the "proverbial silver spoon in his mouth." Just remember the facts and be grateful.
Paul Thomson  laid the foundations  for us becoming  a premier  league  club Ebenezer just jumped  on the bandwagon and used his position to take a loan out from the club to buy shares  in club. Bloke  is a leech  in my book and the sooner  he's gone the better
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on May 31, 2017, 02:00:58 PM
Paul Thomson  laid the foundations  for us becoming  a premier  league  club Ebenezer just jumped  on the bandwagon and used his position to take a loan out from the club to buy shares  in club. Bloke  is a leech  in my book and the sooner  he's gone the better

Thompson did well for the club but he also practically admitted that he couldn't deal with the pressures of the Premier League and Megson which is why he quit. It's very unfair to claim that Peace just appeared and did nothing of note during his time, if he was that bad we'd have got quickly relegated and never recovered, financially or on the pitch - but Peace held it together well.

I've heard a lot of people moan about Peace using loans to buy more shares and there's nothing wrong with it at all, it's a very common practice in business and he's still gambling whilst using leverage on the loans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on May 31, 2017, 05:28:20 PM
What was the club actually worth when he took over? What were our previous 10 years like on and off the field.
Peace made good money and that is his right. He frustrated fans with his tight hold on the purse strings, but he was proven right. The club he sold was worth ridiculously more than when he bought it and more to the point is on a solid financial footing without mountains of debt and running at a huge loss each year, we are now also a serious top 20 club in England again. We have seen a lot of clubs come and go and a lot of clubs invest a lot of money and disappear during Peace's tenure.

He frustrated me, but overall his tenure had to be considered a great success.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 17, 2017, 02:44:42 PM
Has Ebenezer found  the Chinese version  in new owners?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 17, 2017, 05:03:52 PM
I'm sorry I don't understand why people have the expectation that the new owners would stump up new money so Pulis or any other manager can play fantasy football. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on June 17, 2017, 05:10:09 PM
To put a bit of perspective on activity so far this summer.....according to the BBC list we are one of 13 teams yet to sign anyone.

Only Brighton, Everton, Leicester, Man U, Man C, Arsenal, Stoke (Fletcher) have - assume Mooy hasn't officially signed at Huddersfield yet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on June 19, 2017, 01:52:59 PM
Must say I am a little disappointed so far, I want to hear more from him. Wolves have had a exciting takeover , ours is just boring.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 19, 2017, 01:56:58 PM
Must say I am a little disappointed so far, I want to hear more from him. Wolves have had a exciting takeover , ours is just boring.

What was exciting about it Dave? The revolving door of managers? The mediocre Championship football? or the greedy agent who seems to be getting 'double bubble' on deals and hopefully leading them into a cul de sac?

Give me Lai any day.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on June 19, 2017, 01:58:50 PM
Must say I am a little disappointed so far, I want to hear more from him. Wolves have had a exciting takeover , ours is just boring.
hmm what's an exciting takeover - managers being fired left right and centre? Attempts at changing the club brand in some way ?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on June 19, 2017, 02:00:04 PM
Must say I am a little disappointed so far, I want to hear more from him. Wolves have had a exciting takeover , ours is just boring.
have they? Last I saw they've made no improvement what's so ever, we saw this under Irvine. Buying loads of players for the sake of buying players (or to give the agent/advisor a nice big paycheque for himself) is a waste of time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on June 19, 2017, 03:10:25 PM
The other man's grass is always greener, the sun shines brighter on the other side........

Only clearly, it doesn't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on June 19, 2017, 05:41:08 PM
Must say I am a little disappointed so far, I want to hear more from him. Wolves have had a exciting takeover , ours is just boring.
Their future was "golden" now it is "BLACK"  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on June 24, 2017, 10:29:20 AM
Article today in Brum Mail. Thought this for a while when the £40 million pound budget was announced.

These are shareholders' concerns over West Brom owner's spending plan

Albion shareholders say Guochuan Lai shows no signs of splashing his cash on a threadbare squad

09:00, 24 JUN 2017Updated09:52, 24 JUN 2017
West Brom shareholders are increasingly alarmed by a lack of funding for new players so far this summer and fear investor Guochuan Lai has no intention of digging into his own pockets.

Albion had one of the smallest and oldest squads in the Premier League - even before influential former captain Darren Fletcher joined local rivals Stoke City on a free transfer.

But the Baggies are yet to sign a player while other teams of a similar standing - and with larger squads - have already recruited.

Lai purchased former Chairman Jeremy Peace's 88 per cent stake in the Club in a reported £175 million takeover last August.

The Chinese entrepreneur made it clear from the outset he had "no wish to change the Club's ethos or embark on an unsustainable spending spree."

Birmingham business leader Peter Wall says he and other West Brom shareholders are worried Lai's investment ended with the takeover and that he has no plans to add his own cash to strengthen the team.


West Brom latest transfer news
Wall, an Albion fan since the 1950s and a season ticket holder for many years, attended a recent Shareholders for Albion (S4A) forum meeting alongside Chief Executive Martin Goodman (pictured, below) and finance director Peter Band.

He asked Goodman and Band whether Lai would be adding his own money into the transfer pot and was far from encouraged by what he heard.

"Their response was very much like a politician," he said.

"They couldn't really answer the question.

"They just told me Mr Lai was satisfied with tenth position.

"I wonder what kind of message that sends out.

"Our squad is small and aging and needs urgent replenishment.

"The average age of the team that started the game at Swansea on the final day of the season was one of the oldest in the Premier League era - and (37-year-old) Gareth McAuley wasn't even playing!

"What was most disappointing, (about the forum meeting) as a complete Albion nut, was the news there are no funds coming into the club from the club's new investor.

"A lot of business types at the club are getting very concerned that we have an investor who does not appear to want to invest his own cash.

"The penny is dropping."

The summer transfer window does not officially open until July 1, but that hasn't stopped the likes of Leicester City, Everton, Stoke, West Ham and Bournemouth from striking early.

Albion have spent £27 million on three transfer fees since Lai's takeover was announced - £13 million on Nacer Chadli, £4 million on Allan Nyom and £10 million on Jake Livermore.

Those signings were funded by a cash reserve set aside for player recruitment before Lai took over.

Two other players have been brought in, with Hal Robson-Kanu arriving on a free transfer last summer while Marc Wilson was signed on loan in January.

It's thought West Brom will have around £40 million to spend on new players this summer which would represent a club-record outlay.

Part of the budget will come from TV rights and prize money, some is surplus from last summer and around £13.5 million from the sales of Saido Berahino and Craig Gardner.

More money will become available if any more players are sold.

It remains to be seen whether Lai would find funds himself were Albion to spend more on new players than budgeted.

"There has been no suggestion Lai will put any of his own money in and that's the simple message that really concerns me," added Wall, former CEO of Birmingham law firm Wragge & Co.

"It seems that Huddersfield, Burnley, Bournemouth etc, have more purchasing power than poor old West Brom.

"It seems as though Mr Lai has acquired an expensive asset, but is unable to provide the high maintenance and upkeep that goes with it."
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 24, 2017, 10:52:09 AM
Unfortunately I feared this was the case. He simply does not have any funds or is simply unwilling to add anything. I was always worried in the early interviee with him as he was going on about our excellent academy that's all he was interested in, getting our ideas so it could be installed to Chinese academies etc
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 24, 2017, 10:57:49 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure JP didn't put his own money in either. In fact he bought himself further shares using club money!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on June 24, 2017, 11:03:53 AM
The Chinese JP, nothing will change.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 24, 2017, 11:09:40 AM
The Chinese JP, nothing will change.

Which is what I said along with a handful of others yet we got shot down by people saying 'let's see what the window brings' etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on June 24, 2017, 12:16:06 PM
FFP blockes people injecting cash beyond "small" amounts.

There seems very much to be an expectation that this guy will just donate his money to the club. Villa have a guy who did that, how did that work out?

I'd rather the club was run financially sound.

People love to shop with other people's money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie_liam on June 24, 2017, 12:16:23 PM
This squad is too old now, it must have investments made to it this year and if it's only £40m then that isn't going to sustain our PL status for very much longer.
Depressing read, but I live to hope!
Otherwise we could become the next Blackburn and the venkys
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mikehy on June 24, 2017, 12:23:46 PM
I fear we are in a similar situation to Blackburn and the venkys also. Cannot see anything other than relegation and fans protests against the owners. This is why I also think pulis wants out but trying to blame it on fans criticism
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on June 24, 2017, 12:24:20 PM
Sad to say that they Chinese takeover of West Midlands football is starting to look like a disaster
I can't see one good owner out of all of them. I keep hoping that ours is acting behind the scenes but the more I read I am becoming more concerned that he is JP mark 2
This window is crucial to determine what sort of owner we have and our premier league survival
If he is not committed TP will walk just before the season starts and it will be downhill from there
At least he isn't like Fosun is the best I can say at the moment
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on June 24, 2017, 12:48:37 PM
FFP blokes people injecting cash beyond "small" amounts.

There seems very much to be an expectation that this guy will just donate his money to the club. Villa have a guy who did that, how did that work out?

I'd rather the club was run financially sound.

People love to shop with other people's money.
Great post , fully agree. I just hope for slightly higher wages and transfer fees if needed but still the safe running style thats served us well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on June 24, 2017, 01:54:04 PM
Article today in Brum Mail. Thought this for a while when the £40 million pound budget was announced.

These are shareholders' concerns over West Brom owner's spending plan

Albion shareholders say Guochuan Lai shows no signs of splashing his cash on a threadbare squad

09:00, 24 JUN 2017Updated09:52, 24 JUN 2017
West Brom shareholders are increasingly alarmed by a lack of funding for new players so far this summer and fear investor Guochuan Lai has no intention of digging into his own pockets.

Albion had one of the smallest and oldest squads in the Premier League - even before influential former captain Darren Fletcher joined local rivals Stoke City on a free transfer.

But the Baggies are yet to sign a player while other teams of a similar standing - and with larger squads - have already recruited.

Lai purchased former Chairman Jeremy Peace's 88 per cent stake in the Club in a reported £175 million takeover last August.

The Chinese entrepreneur made it clear from the outset he had "no wish to change the Club's ethos or embark on an unsustainable spending spree."

Birmingham business leader Peter Wall says he and other West Brom shareholders are worried Lai's investment ended with the takeover and that he has no plans to add his own cash to strengthen the team.


West Brom latest transfer news
Wall, an Albion fan since the 1950s and a season ticket holder for many years, attended a recent Shareholders for Albion (S4A) forum meeting alongside Chief Executive Martin Goodman (pictured, below) and finance director Peter Band.

He asked Goodman and Band whether Lai would be adding his own money into the transfer pot and was far from encouraged by what he heard.

"Their response was very much like a politician," he said.

"They couldn't really answer the question.

"They just told me Mr Lai was satisfied with tenth position.

"I wonder what kind of message that sends out.

"Our squad is small and aging and needs urgent replenishment.

"The average age of the team that started the game at Swansea on the final day of the season was one of the oldest in the Premier League era - and (37-year-old) Gareth McAuley wasn't even playing!

"What was most disappointing, (about the forum meeting) as a complete Albion nut, was the news there are no funds coming into the club from the club's new investor.

"A lot of business types at the club are getting very concerned that we have an investor who does not appear to want to invest his own cash.

"The penny is dropping."

The summer transfer window does not officially open until July 1, but that hasn't stopped the likes of Leicester City, Everton, Stoke, West Ham and Bournemouth from striking early.

Albion have spent £27 million on three transfer fees since Lai's takeover was announced - £13 million on Nacer Chadli, £4 million on Allan Nyom and £10 million on Jake Livermore.

Those signings were funded by a cash reserve set aside for player recruitment before Lai took over.

Two other players have been brought in, with Hal Robson-Kanu arriving on a free transfer last summer while Marc Wilson was signed on loan in January.

It's thought West Brom will have around £40 million to spend on new players this summer which would represent a club-record outlay.

Part of the budget will come from TV rights and prize money, some is surplus from last summer and around £13.5 million from the sales of Saido Berahino and Craig Gardner.

More money will become available if any more players are sold.

It remains to be seen whether Lai would find funds himself were Albion to spend more on new players than budgeted.

"There has been no suggestion Lai will put any of his own money in and that's the simple message that really concerns me," added Wall, former CEO of Birmingham law firm Wragge & Co.

"It seems that Huddersfield, Burnley, Bournemouth etc, have more purchasing power than poor old West Brom.

"It seems as though Mr Lai has acquired an expensive asset, but is unable to provide the high maintenance and upkeep that goes with it."

To be fair, isn't this the guy that was moaning when JP wanted to sell the club because he had a few shares and wanted to cash them out but they weren't bought? There aren't any direct quotes from what was actually said, only his view on what was said at the meeting. I'm sure he had a bit of a chip on his shoulder about the takeover from the offset if I remember rightly. I'd take the quotes with a pinch of salt if I'm honest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on June 24, 2017, 02:11:36 PM
I know you probably shouldn't put a figure on what we should be spending as it's quality that counts and who knows, but with the type of player Pulis goes for - predominantly having already played in England, then if we don't spend atleast 30 million can't see us getting in anyone decent.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 24, 2017, 02:14:32 PM
I believe JP's consultancy contract expires next Friday, it will be interesting to see if he is retained.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Astle1968 on June 24, 2017, 02:14:54 PM
I'm probably in the minority but like a few others I'm not really bothered by this news.

To move on to the next level and compete with Everton each season whilst consistently putting distance between ourselves and teams like Stoke/Palace/Watford/Southampton would take an outlay north of £100m in fee's plus a huge outlay on wages. I never saw anything in any of the purchase negotiations that anything like this sort of money was ever going to be available.

£40m in the right hands is more than enough to keep our current squad in the league and in around the same positions if we perform adequately both on and of the pitch. I feel sometimes on here staying in here it's over estimated how difficult to stay in he PL. We should be absolutely miles clear of both Brighton and Huddersfield even if they both spend £70m+ (which they wont) so if either of them finish above us it wont be because of money.

I wouldn't swap our team/squad (as it stands) for Burnleys/Stokes/Watford/Newcaslte or Swansea and arguably Bournemouth aswell. I'd be very surprised if all those outsides outspend us this summer and even more shocked if they all started the season with better squads than us. £40m is not massive in this market but it's more than enough to get us what we need if invested wisely.

I've also seen absolutely nothing to suggest we are anything like Blackburn or even Villa. I despise Pulis and want him gone but if Lai sacked him this summer and replaced him with a Zola/Di Matteo type appointment I'd be concerned. The fact he seems content with what he has seen suggests he is nothing like those other owners who came in talking about top 4 finishes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on June 24, 2017, 04:32:35 PM
I believe JP's consultancy contract expires next Friday, it will be interesting to see if he is retained.

Do you have any idea how much he is being paid as a consultant?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on June 24, 2017, 05:16:31 PM
It's come at a time where there is no news the club hasn't signed any players so it's created a bit of something for people to get their teeth into .

What concerns me regardless of today's article is there are people with better connections to the club than me who I talk to on a regular basis and they have a total lack of belief in what they currently see and what the future holds .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on June 24, 2017, 05:42:59 PM
Actions speak louder than words of course so we'll see what's happened at the end of the window . My feeling is unde Lai, we'll continue to under spend on fees compared with rivals but will compete on wages. He was never going to be a sugar daddy, in fact he seems to be the Chinese Peace so he expect more of the same (good and bad with that of course)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: adamw1109 on June 24, 2017, 05:52:33 PM
Anyone who expected Lai to invest heavily obviously didn't pay any attention when he took over... when he made it very clear the club would be run as normal.

Plus, look at the other clubs with owners that have just came in and pumped money into the club.... majority of the time it goes t*ts up!

I don't pay attention to the Birmingham mail as it is... and to top it off people are worrying over someones opinions on Lai in there.... give him til the end of this window and then we will see what his intentions are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on June 24, 2017, 06:38:39 PM
Williams walked over the Venkys I believe so I can't imagine he would hang around for too long if he suspected Lai of being the same cloth.

That's not to say that Lai won't be equally as awful in the long term, but if JW hasn't established this yet I can't imagine who else would be in a better position to make that judgement.

lots to be concerned about but Lai not throwing his own money on isn't one yet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 24, 2017, 06:59:06 PM
To have a realistic of generating significantly more income from football by investing in players Lai needs to bridge the gap between ourselves and Spurs and that's roughly £100m per year until we get ahead of them and in footballing terms does anyone think that is less than a 5 year project with a slim chance of success? If in doubt that is the same strategy that Lerner adopted at Villa and I rest my case.

It makes me laugh that these "business types" expect Lai to subsidise the club's player budget (virtually no other club works this way in the Premier League) when they wouldn't spend money in their own businesses with a similarly slim prospect of getting a return.

Overall I don't see Lai being like the Venkys who breezed into Blackburn spent money badly and changed everything from top to bottom. While Lai's steady as it goes approach leaves Pulis in place which I feel is holding us back as much as anything else I don't think we are at the top of a downward spiral. We are in the third tier of Premier League teams and nothing is going to push beyond that other than developing our players and moving away from bolting teams together each window to grind out 40 points.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 24, 2017, 07:00:41 PM
Billionaire lol. Cheers for the beer and scarf anyway
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on June 24, 2017, 07:17:22 PM
To have a realistic of generating significantly more income from football by investing in players Lai needs to bridge the gap between ourselves and Spurs and that's roughly £100m per year until we get ahead of them and in footballing terms does anyone think that is less than a 5 year project with a slim chance of success? If in doubt that is the same strategy that Lerner adopted at Villa and I rest my case.

It makes me laugh that these "business types" expect Lai to subsidise the club's player budget (virtually no other club works this way in the Premier League) when they wouldn't spend money in their own businesses with a similarly slim prospect of getting a return.

Overall I don't see Lai being like the Venkys who breezed into Blackburn spent money badly and changed everything from top to bottom. While Lai's steady as it goes approach leaves Pulis in place which I feel is holding us back as much as anything else I don't think we are at the top of a downward spiral. We are in the third tier of Premier League teams and nothing is going to push beyond that other than developing our players and moving away from bolting teams together each window to grind out 40 points.

Was going to say the same thing. Why isn't the guy moaning about Lai throwing a few million in the pot if he's so concerned?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 24, 2017, 08:54:57 PM
Do you have any idea how much he is being paid as a consultant?

None at all, but it came up a few weeks ago that he was retained as a consultant as part of the acquisition deal, & the contract expires on 30th June.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 24, 2017, 11:14:40 PM
Paying big transfer fees is a mug's game.  It's dead money on top of big wages.  I have no problem with the concept of paying above-average wages to attract and retain good players, funded by avoiding paying pointless large transfer fees.  We should be focusing on signing players with a year left on their contracts, ideally a maximum of 2 years, to keep outgoing transfer fees as low as possible. A £20m fee plus £75k/week for a 4-year contract is a £35m total outlay or just under £9m a year.  A £10m outlay plus a £90k/week is a £28m outlay over 4 years, which is £7m/year.  Multiply that saving by 5 players and that's £10m/year or £40m saved over 4 years. Provided that we can manage the FFP implications that's a far better business model for a club our size.

But it must be coupled with a good scouting network to pick up good players from abroad and from lower divisions here with low transfer fees and a resale value. That's where we are really falling down.  Think Mulumbu, Olsson, Dorrens, Odemwingie, Phillips, Yacob, Fletcher - all very low transfer fees.

Yes we may have to still shell out big transfer fees for one or two key players, especially strikers, but that's manageable.

I'm therefore not too hung up on whether our transfer budget is £40m, £30m or £50m because I'd far rather see it invested in wages rather than on big transfer fees.

If we could sell Evans for £25m-plus and buy Smalling for £15m or Shawcross for £10m as a replacement on similar wages then that's £10m to £15m which can be used elsewhere.  Similarly buying Andre Gray for the apparent £10m price rather than buying Deeney for £25m makes far more sense.

I don't get the club's concern over paying around £7m for Charlie Taylor at tribunal, especially with resale value.  It strongly suggests that we have an even better value alternative lined up.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 25, 2017, 11:10:32 AM
Since the beginning of football  league transfers and wages have gone hand in hand. If you want to buy player who is under contract at another club then you agree free with club and wages with player.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 25, 2017, 11:19:08 AM
Since the beginning of football  league transfers and wages have gone hand in hand. If you want to buy player who is under contract at another club then you agree free with club and wages with player.

Not true.  Bosman changed everything.  A player's value declines with each passing year of his contract until he can walk away on a free.

Evans with 4 years left on his contract is worth £30m.  Evans with a year left on his contract is worth maybe £8m to £10m.  Same player, same wages, but totally different transfer value.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on June 25, 2017, 11:20:05 AM
I have been one of the patient Albion fans, but now this window will decide what side of the fence i sit on, will I class us as well run club but no ambition or will I say wow we have tried to compete we have tried to do something special..only time will tell, over to you Mr Lai!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 25, 2017, 12:11:47 PM
Not true.  Bosman changed everything.  A player's value declines with each passing year of his contract until he can walk away on a free.

Evans with 4 years left on his contract is worth £30m.  Evans with a year left on his contract is worth maybe £8m to £10m.  Same player, same wages, but totally different transfer value.
read my quote take a few minutes  to take it in and then if you want reply. Never mentioned out of contract players
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 25, 2017, 12:32:17 PM
read my quote take a few minutes  to take it in and then if you want reply. Never mentioned out of contract players

Pardon?  I wasn't talking out of contract players either.  You said wages and transfer fees go hand in hand. I explained exactly how they don't, because of Bosman. Until Bosman you would have been 100% correct as a player was contracted until he was sold or retired.  Since Bosman a player's transfer value reduces as his contract winds down, irrespective of his wage level.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on June 27, 2017, 08:22:36 PM
Showing a bit of ambition... Fair play.

http://mobile.ytsports.cn/news-3424.html

Palm Eco-Town to build West Bromwich Albion sports towns in China

June 26: As reported by Beijing Business Today (BBT), Palm Eco-Town Development Company, revealed on p5w.com that they plan to construct 5 or 6 sports (soccer) towns called “West Bromwich Albion Sports (Soccer) Towns”. Intelligent integrated landscape environments and the youth training academy of the Premier League club will be key features of these soccer towns.

Palm stated that they are now directing their strategy towards to sports-based towns. Having recently purchased the Premier League side, which is regarded as one of Palm’s key core resources, Palm is going to leverage their ownership of this club to develop the domestic sports market and establish sports towns in China. According to BBT, Palm has signed a deal with the local governing body of the New Area between Guiyang and Anshun, Guizhou Province. This deal will see Palm’s first sports town, which is currently under planning in this new area. Apart from this sports town, Palm also plans to establish 5 or 6 West Bromwich Albion soccer towns allowing Palm to increase their commercial returns and support Chinese football.

Founded in 1984 and listed on the Small and Medium Enterprise Board (“SME Board”) of the Shenzhen Stock Exchange, Palm Eco-Town Development Co., LTD. is a leading landscape architecture firm in China. Through merging with Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited,  the owner of West Bromwich Albion, Palm indirectly completed the £175m ($222.6m) takeover of West Brom in August, 2016.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: saml30 on June 27, 2017, 10:39:47 PM
Think I'd prefer some of the money to be spent on players instead...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 28, 2017, 09:48:28 AM
Showing a bit of ambition... Fair play.

http://mobile.ytsports.cn/news-3424.html

Palm Eco-Town to build West Bromwich Albion sports towns in China

June 26: As reported by Beijing Business Today (BBT), Palm Eco-Town Development Company, revealed on p5w.com that they plan to construct 5 or 6 sports (soccer) towns called “West Bromwich Albion Sports (Soccer) Towns”. Intelligent integrated landscape environments and the youth training academy of the Premier League club will be key features of these soccer towns.

Palm stated that they are now directing their strategy towards to sports-based towns. Having recently purchased the Premier League side, which is regarded as one of Palm’s key core resources, Palm is going to leverage their ownership of this club to develop the domestic sports market and establish sports towns in China. According to BBT, Palm has signed a deal with the local governing body of the New Area between Guiyang and Anshun, Guizhou Province. This deal will see Palm’s first sports town, which is currently under planning in this new area. Apart from this sports town, Palm also plans to establish 5 or 6 West Bromwich Albion soccer towns allowing Palm to increase their commercial returns and support Chinese football.

Founded in 1984 and listed on the Small and Medium Enterprise Board (“SME Board”) of the Shenzhen Stock Exchange, Palm Eco-Town Development Co., LTD. is a leading landscape architecture firm in China. Through merging with Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited,  the owner of West Bromwich Albion, Palm indirectly completed the £175m ($222.6m) takeover of West Brom in August, 2016.


all sounds very encouraging, ark at me being positive
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 28, 2017, 09:54:48 AM
Showing a bit of ambition... Fair play.

http://mobile.ytsports.cn/news-3424.html

Palm Eco-Town to build West Bromwich Albion sports towns in China

June 26: As reported by Beijing Business Today (BBT), Palm Eco-Town Development Company, revealed on p5w.com that they plan to construct 5 or 6 sports (soccer) towns called “West Bromwich Albion Sports (Soccer) Towns”. Intelligent integrated landscape environments and the youth training academy of the Premier League club will be key features of these soccer towns.

Palm stated that they are now directing their strategy towards to sports-based towns. Having recently purchased the Premier League side, which is regarded as one of Palm’s key core resources, Palm is going to leverage their ownership of this club to develop the domestic sports market and establish sports towns in China. According to BBT, Palm has signed a deal with the local governing body of the New Area between Guiyang and Anshun, Guizhou Province. This deal will see Palm’s first sports town, which is currently under planning in this new area. Apart from this sports town, Palm also plans to establish 5 or 6 West Bromwich Albion soccer towns allowing Palm to increase their commercial returns and support Chinese football.

Founded in 1984 and listed on the Small and Medium Enterprise Board (“SME Board”) of the Shenzhen Stock Exchange, Palm Eco-Town Development Co., LTD. is a leading landscape architecture firm in China. Through merging with Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited,  the owner of West Bromwich Albion, Palm indirectly completed the £175m ($222.6m) takeover of West Brom in August, 2016.

This could go one of two ways.

It could either be a rip roaring success and something none of us could ever imagine, both with the promotion of WBA in China and the far east which generates enough revenue for us to bring world stars to the club, or;

We could be asset stripped and turned into the new Coventry City to pay for the construction of 5 new towns.

Just a thought...... I really hope it is the former.......

I will be calling myself Fritzl next :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 28, 2017, 01:40:23 PM
Matt Wilson just confirmed we will receive a slice of the revenue from the eco towns. This could be huge for us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hayward1984 on June 28, 2017, 02:19:20 PM
It would be fantastic if we are able to generate some revenue from these towns. However i'll wait to hear it confirmed by Lai / Palm / the club / an expert on Chinese football or business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Tank on June 28, 2017, 04:31:08 PM
Such a project in the UK would take ten years to come to fruition.  Can we wait that long ?

Hopefully in China they get on with things a bit quicker.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on June 28, 2017, 08:24:57 PM
I'm assured this is a correct stat and that;
In the last 3 years China has poured as much concrete as the USA did in the entire 20th century! (That's 100 years folks)
That's a lot of buildings and now they even 3D Print 'em!
 https://3dprint.com/138664/huashang-tengda-3d-print-house/
So knocking out a new football town every few months should come easy to them
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on June 28, 2017, 08:33:05 PM
Such a project in the UK would take ten years to come to fruition.  Can we wait that long ?

Hopefully in China they get on with things a bit quicker.

I'm certain they will. With that said for them to use our name to help secure the contracts in the first place I would like to think we have already earned a little from it. One thing is for sure it is a must for us and Palm for the club to remain a Premier League side now we are linked to such a project.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 28, 2017, 10:16:54 PM
We could get the pick of Chinese youth players with this project. Just imagine crouching tiger flying down the wing tees up hidden dragon who dummies the ball and jet Lia scores ah wax on wax off
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 28, 2017, 11:20:46 PM
One thing is certain - it won't take China long to produce some works class players
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on June 28, 2017, 11:22:42 PM
One thing is certain - it won't take China long to produce some works class players

We've got enough of those already
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Cantello on June 29, 2017, 09:08:51 AM
How on earth do these so called soccer towns benefit us?  Am I alone in thinking WTF?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 29, 2017, 09:09:55 AM
How on earth do these so called soccer towns benefit us?  Am I alone in thinking WTF?


pick of the crop possibly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on June 29, 2017, 09:19:35 AM
How on earth do these so called soccer towns benefit us?  Am I alone in thinking WTF?
Gets our name in a massive market in a unique way, we apparently get a cut of the profits and suggests to me that Palm will be a guaranteed sponsor for a significant amount of time (rather than being just a minority owner)

Might also breed loyalty to our brand, rather than just a shirt like so many other teams, the selected people will get homes, jobs and communities with our name attached to it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on June 29, 2017, 09:29:54 AM
How on earth do these so called soccer towns benefit us?  Am I alone in thinking WTF?

it could provide a source of income for the club without costing us any money to set them up.

also would give us first choice on any player I guess, although like any academy that could 10-15 years before you start to see anything like that come through.

raises the profile of the club which also opens up more sponsorship opportunities and possibility of more income.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on June 29, 2017, 01:12:04 PM
For me the whole benefit of Lai taking over was that in say  5 or 10 years time, if/ when Chinese football really takes off, we'd be very well placed to make the most of it. Yes, it's likely a longer term game to play but you'd hope we'll eventually be making serious income from those connections which would feed back into the club in terms of players, ground, success- that's my hope anyway?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on June 29, 2017, 01:13:45 PM
We could get the pick of Chinese youth players with this project.

So could Wolves. Or Villa. Or Blues. Or Northampton.

All Chinese owned, all will have their fingers in that pie.

That would be long-term though, because the best Chinese players now are Championship / League 1 level.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 29, 2017, 02:09:08 PM
So could Wolves. Or Villa. Or Blues. Or Northampton.

All Chinese owned, all will have their fingers in that pie.

That would be long-term though, because the best Chinese players now are Championship / League 1 level.

Not if our owner and his company are the ones building the towns and running them

The other owners of the clubs mentioned are not the ones leading this development, ours is
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on June 29, 2017, 02:12:31 PM
So could Wolves. Or Villa. Or Blues. Or Northampton.

All Chinese owned, all will have their fingers in that pie.

That would be long-term though, because the best Chinese players now are Championship / League 1 level.

I'd also argue that it wouldn't really matter anyway. If there's anyone half decent in China that emerges you've got at least 6-7 clubs above us in the table who can outprice us anyway. Money talks ultimately.

We don't use our own English academy at the moment anyway, with only field really looking to break through into the first team regularly. Why would some random Chinese kid get given a chance?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 05, 2017, 08:16:38 AM
Fingers in Pies

http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/892544814?-11200:789:0
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on July 05, 2017, 03:37:36 PM
So could Wolves. Or Villa. Or Blues. Or Northampton.

All Chinese owned, all will have their fingers in that pie.

That would be long-term though, because the best Chinese players now are Championship / League 1 level.
Aren't we the only mainland Chinese owned club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Morany on July 20, 2017, 01:46:53 PM
Seen that Albion fans over in Hong Kong are being given the opportunity to meet owner and chairman tomorrow for drinks and discussions.

Good idea, hopefully they get some points over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 20, 2017, 02:04:31 PM
Seen that Albion fans over in Hong Kong are being given the opportunity to meet owner and chairman tomorrow for drinks and discussions.

Good idea, hopefully they get some points over.
why are we shopping in Aldis when majority of clubs are shopping in Tesco's . Believe if my maths are correct  that in the one and half Windows  they have overseen  they are in the red by 9.5 million and this is prem club. What's the Chinese word for invest some money
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 21, 2017, 11:04:58 PM
The new owners have no money to invest and have confirmed the are running the club under the same break-even / bank small profit model used by Peace year-in-year-out. Pulis has confirmed that several times. So we are left we scraps to invest in the team. Throw in an ultra defensive set up and unimaginative ticket pricing for good measure. It's miserable and stale off and on the pitch.

The club is small time from start to finish and free bar in Hong Kong doesn't change that. With the limited reliance on ticket revenue we could realistically charge £250 and £200 for season tickets and £20.00 & £12.00 for match day tickets (adult / concessions) and sell out every match, with a limited loss given the extra match day takings on food / drink / programmes / sponsorship. We could then look to expand the stadium, increasing the revenue all round but there is no agenda whatsoever so show any ambition to grow the club. That would bring a level of excitement and a challenge which is sorely missing.

We're fine for now drifting nowhere but how long until we have a bad season and drop. When we do we won't be able to compete to get back as we'll have the small stadium and limited pockets and I fear we will become another one of those championship clubs, unable to compete financially with our rivals.

In the ideal world Lai sells out to someone who actually has some cash to invest but we've missed our chance as Peace was wanted to maximise his own personal profit even if that meant selling to owners who don't have the capital to raise the club up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 22, 2017, 12:12:24 AM
The new owners have no money to invest and have confirmed the are running the club under the same break-even / bank small profit model used by Peace year-in-year-out. Pulis has confirmed that several times. So we are left we scraps to invest in the team. Throw in an ultra defensive set up and unimaginative ticket pricing for good measure. It's miserable and stale off and on the pitch.

The club is small time from start to finish and free bar in Hong Kong doesn't change that. With the limited reliance on ticket revenue we could realistically charge £250 and £200 for season tickets and £20.00 & £12.00 for match day tickets (adult / concessions) and sell out every match, with a limited loss given the extra match day takings on food / drink / programmes / sponsorship. We could then look to expand the stadium, increasing the revenue all round but there is no agenda whatsoever so show any ambition to grow the club. That would bring a level of excitement and a challenge which is sorely missing.

We're fine for now drifting nowhere but how long until we have a bad season and drop. When we do we won't be able to compete to get back as we'll have the small stadium and limited pockets and I fear we will become another one of those championship clubs, unable to compete financially with our rivals.

In the ideal world Lai sells out to someone who actually has some cash to invest but we've missed our chance as Peace was wanted to maximise his own personal profit even if that meant selling to owners who don't have the capital to raise the club up.


Oh so depressing that .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 22, 2017, 12:39:45 AM

Oh so depressing that .


Also complete pie in the sky stuff.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on July 22, 2017, 01:37:34 AM
The new owners have no money to invest and have confirmed the are running the club under the same break-even / bank small profit model used by Peace year-in-year-out. Pulis has confirmed that several times. So we are left we scraps to invest in the team. Throw in an ultra defensive set up and unimaginative ticket pricing for good measure. It's miserable and stale off and on the pitch.

The club is small time from start to finish and free bar in Hong Kong doesn't change that. With the limited reliance on ticket revenue we could realistically charge £250 and £200 for season tickets and £20.00 & £12.00 for match day tickets (adult / concessions) and sell out every match, with a limited loss given the extra match day takings on food / drink / programmes / sponsorship. We could then look to expand the stadium, increasing the revenue all round but there is no agenda whatsoever so show any ambition to grow the club. That would bring a level of excitement and a challenge which is sorely missing.

We're fine for now drifting nowhere but how long until we have a bad season and drop. When we do we won't be able to compete to get back as we'll have the small stadium and limited pockets and I fear we will become another one of those championship clubs, unable to compete financially with our rivals.

In the ideal world Lai sells out to someone who actually has some cash to invest but we've missed our chance as Peace was wanted to maximise his own personal profit even if that meant selling to owners who don't have the capital to raise the club up.

Where has this been confirmed?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 22, 2017, 01:51:25 AM
Where has this been confirmed?
Earlier on. Did you not see it? Some chap calling himself Baggie82. It's the tinternet, so it must be true. Or maybe it was a pessimistic point of view. It's all very confusing.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on July 22, 2017, 01:57:38 AM
Earlier on. Did you not see it? Some chap calling himself Baggie82. It's the tinternet, so it must be true. Or maybe it was a pessimistic point of view. It's all very confusing.  ;D

Oh of course. Must have that. Also must have missed when we spent 12 million on a new striker and 10 million on a midfielder in January
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on July 22, 2017, 07:24:30 AM
The new owners have no money to invest and have confirmed the are running the club under the same break-even / bank small profit model used by Peace year-in-year-out. Pulis has confirmed that several times. So we are left we scraps to invest in the team. Throw in an ultra defensive set up and unimaginative ticket pricing for good measure. It's miserable and stale off and on the pitch.

The club is small time from start to finish and free bar in Hong Kong doesn't change that. With the limited reliance on ticket revenue we could realistically charge £250 and £200 for season tickets and £20.00 & £12.00 for match day tickets (adult / concessions) and sell out every match, with a limited loss given the extra match day takings on food / drink / programmes / sponsorship. We could then look to expand the stadium, increasing the revenue all round but there is no agenda whatsoever so show any ambition to grow the club. That would bring a level of excitement and a challenge which is sorely missing.

We're fine for now drifting nowhere but how long until we have a bad season and drop. When we do we won't be able to compete to get back as we'll have the small stadium and limited pockets and I fear we will become another one of those championship clubs, unable to compete financially with our rivals.

In the ideal world Lai sells out to someone who actually has some cash to invest but we've missed our chance as Peace was wanted to maximise his own personal profit even if that meant selling to owners who don't have the capital to raise the club up.

100% agree the money's gone on buying the club. Which is why we need our scouting etc more than ever
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on July 22, 2017, 11:01:01 AM
100% agree the money's gone on buying the club. Which is why we need our scouting etc more than ever

How did they afford the Rodriguez, Livermore, Chinese bloke and Hegazi signings then?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 22, 2017, 11:46:44 AM
I am amazed that it has taken 12 months for the penny to drop because everything that was said at the outset suggested that Lai wasn't going to run the club at a loss.

What has emerged is the new ownership's angle is to use the English academy model as a means of tapping into the  Chinese football boom. This is smart as the Chinese authorities are mainly concerned with national prestige through the National team. While turbo charging their domestic league might kick start this process it is a dubious way for the nation to progress as a footballing force and the fact that the this particular gold rush has been closed down by the Goverment levying a prohibitive surcharge on foreign transfers to the league.

Equally Chinese investment in overseas clubs again might peddle influence and add to the owners prestige it does very little to enhance the Chinese football project unless there is a transfer of know-how from the European clubs to China. What seemed to be a flood of Chinese money coming into the game last year now has become much more of a trickle and if the Chinese owners need additional funds to prop up their new purchases it will be interesting to see if they can get state approval for those investments.

Albion seem to be the only club that is actively making some sort of attempt at a knowledge transfer, whether this pays dividends in the long term remains to be seen.

Lai does need to keep the club in the Premier League but for his ambitions to truly come to fruition we need to bring players through the academy.

I don't think for a minute that Lai is going to invest directly in the team but further down the track I wouldn't be surprised to see the Hawthorns and it's surrounds being part of a property development project because that's what the ownership does.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: adamw1109 on July 22, 2017, 11:50:43 AM
100% agree the money's gone on buying the club. Which is why we need our scouting etc more than ever

We have made signings after the club was purchased... so 100% not true.

Atleast give the transfer window chance to close before judging how much we have spent.

The people on here moaning about the lack of spending would be the same people if we did a villa... spend boat loads on a lot of over priced rubbish and end up a mid table championship club.

Slow and steady wins the race  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 22, 2017, 08:07:33 PM
What was the incentive for this Chinese owner who if we are to believed is a billionaire to buy club, seems reluctant to invest fund's into club if the 2 Windows are anything to go by. As things stand we have a good chance of being relegated this season and where is his investment then or lack of?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 22, 2017, 08:45:19 PM
What was the incentive for this Chinese owner who if we are to believed is a billionaire to buy club, seems reluctant to invest fund's into club if the 2 Windows are anything to go by. As things stand we have a good chance of being relegated this season and where is his investment then or lack of?
we have a good chance of being relegated any season. throwing money at it doesn't make the chance lower. no striker is guaranteed to score more goals because of the price tag attached to them (in some/many cases they can't handle that expectation and perform worse) and that is similar throughout the positions.

This is just an exercise in d##k measuring, fans feel inadequate because the other clubs are throwing money on players (we don't know yet if they'll be better or worse than what they had) and they want the owner to spend lots of money so they feel like they are part of the group. I know this because EVERY FORUM IS DOES THIS. Most teams this summer are having this exact same conversation as they think they are being outspent and have to throw huge amounts of money (someone else's money might I add) in order to keep up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 22, 2017, 08:45:30 PM
We have made signings after the club was purchased... so 100% not true.

Last season our net transfer spend was a circa £9.5m once the Chester & Berahino sales are taken account of. So far this season with have spent £13m on Rodriguez and Hegazi. We have also removed Gardner, Olson & Fletcher from the wage bill. Meanwhile our TV / media income has massively increased. Under Peace we banked net profits of £14m and £7m in 2015 and 2016. So of course we have £40/50m to spend on players within the existing income. Just like every other club we have more to throw around but the owners aren't putting anything in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: adamw1109 on July 22, 2017, 09:44:34 PM
Last season our net transfer spend was a circa £9.5m once the Chester & Berahino sales are taken account of. So far this season with have spent £13m on Rodriguez and Hegazi. We have also removed Gardner, Olson & Fletcher from the wage bill. Meanwhile our TV / media income has massively increased. Under Peace we banked net profits of £14m and £7m in 2015 and 2016. So of course we have £40/50m to spend on players within the existing income. Just like every other club we have more to throw around but the owners aren't putting anything in.

Like i said in my post (the part you ignored), Atleast give the transfer window chance to close before judging how much we have spent.

Don't see why people assume/expect or think we need to spend millions... when it doesn't always work.

Just the midlands alone we have 3 clubs with newish owners, ourselves... villa and wolves.

1 of them is run by a smart businessman, 2 of them are run by rich clueless businessmen with more money than sense/football knowledge.... 1 is a prem team the other 2 are currently mid table championship teams. (I'll let you try and work our which ones are which)

Id much rather see us spending wisely and improving our squad gradually than see our owners blow shed loads of money on over priced average players that make don't difference just so we can say we spent X amount of £.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 23, 2017, 07:16:39 AM
But it was also wonderful to go over to the mainland and see for ourselves Mr Lai’s projects close-up. He has got a lot of exciting plans and it was good for us to see them at first hand.”

Tones words about the Hong Kong trip, not that bothered what's going on over there am more interested in what exciting plans Lai has for B71 4LF
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2017, 08:42:51 AM
I am amazed that it has taken 12 months for the penny to drop because everything that was said at the outset suggested that Lai wasn't going to run the club at a loss.

What has emerged is the new ownership's angle is to use the English academy model as a means of tapping into the  Chinese football boom. This is smart as the Chinese authorities are mainly concerned with national prestige through the National team. While turbo charging their domestic league might kick start this process it is a dubious way for the nation to progress as a footballing force and the fact that the this particular gold rush has been closed down by the Goverment levying a prohibitive surcharge on foreign transfers to the league.

Equally Chinese investment in overseas clubs again might peddle influence and add to the owners prestige it does very little to enhance the Chinese football project unless there is a transfer of know-how from the European clubs to China. What seemed to be a flood of Chinese money coming into the game last year now has become much more of a trickle and if the Chinese owners need additional funds to prop up their new purchases it will be interesting to see if they can get state approval for those investments.

Albion seem to be the only club that is actively making some sort of attempt at a knowledge transfer, whether this pays dividends in the long term remains to be seen.

Lai does need to keep the club in the Premier League but for his ambitions to truly come to fruition we need to bring players through the academy.

I don't think for a minute that Lai is going to invest directly in the team but further down the track I wouldn't be surprised to see the Hawthorns and it's surrounds being part of a property development project because that's what the ownership does.

I agree with most of what you say Stan, but I would imagine our performance in Hong Kong would have been embarrassing for Lai & I think he will invest directly in the team.
I think he will want us to be more attractive, bear in mind that the Palm project is backed to circa £2,8 billion, can't see him putting that at risk.
Pretty sure he can workaround the FFP regulations by injecting more equity into the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2017, 08:48:15 AM
But it was also wonderful to go over to the mainland and see for ourselves Mr Lai’s projects close-up. He has got a lot of exciting plans and it was good for us to see them at first hand.”

Tones words about the Hong Kong trip, not that bothered what's going on over there am more interested in what exciting plans Lai has for B71 4LF

Sums it up for me, if he can't see that one depends on the other, we're in trouble
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on July 23, 2017, 09:50:54 AM
My central assumption remains that Mr Lai will adopt the same principle as JP and simply invest, on average, the club's free cash.  The spending on Lai is almost certain, on average, to be higher than JP because the free cash is much higher following the new sky deal.  That's nothing to do with him being richer/more ambitious/more generous.  He will just have more to play with.  We made many record signings under JP but no one is saying that this was because he was more benevelant than Silk. It's just that all the numbers have got bigger.  It may well be that also spends 1.5x more than JP; if so it will be because of the club having a greater p&l rather than Lai personally.

As I said at the time of the takeover, we really should separate Mr Lai's apparent personal (or corporate backed) wealth from what he's going to invest in Albion.  Speaking from my own personal experience, I've bought dozens of businesses and have the resources to pour money in to them but never do.  They are investments viewed dispassionately and entirely separate from how I view cars, houses et al that I may buy personally.   

I may be proved wrong.  I hope I am and that Mr Lai really does want to put personal wealth onto the pitch. However, the balance of probabilities are against it.  There are plenty of other wealthy owners in football who could easily chuck £100m at players without in anyway damaging their own lifestyle.  There are billionaire owners of Championship clubs who could probably guarantee Premiership promotion with only 10% of their wealth "invested".  Steve Lansdown at Bristol City and Shaid Khan at Fulham are two that sprin to mind.  Many of these are genuine lifelong fans of their clubs but still they won't do it.  Why should we believe that someone who'd never seen an Albion match two years ago behave so differently? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2017, 11:12:12 AM
I think he'll invest what needs to be invested to give us the best chance to get a top ten place & to compete in the domestic cup competitions.
I imagine he will have taken advice from WBA board & possibly JP on what that figure is likely to be.

I also think he will want to demonstrate that academy players can be developed to play at the highest level, TP's statement above suggests that they are at odds on that issue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on July 23, 2017, 12:20:32 PM
I agree with most of what you say Stan, but I would imagine our performance in Hong Kong would have been embarrassing for Lai & I think he will invest directly in the team.
I think he will want us to be more attractive, bear in mind that the Palm project is backed to circa £2,8 billion, can't see him putting that at risk.
Pretty sure he can workaround the FFP regulations by injecting more equity into the club.

In a earlier post & said it would be good to get as many new signings on board for this competition  to showcase both us & Mr Lai, but we all know how that turned out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 23, 2017, 12:37:13 PM
Lai relied on a third party investment fund to raise the capital to buy the club. The purchase was funded as follows:

59% Lai (personal investment)
23% Yunyi investment (private equity fund)
18% Palm ecotown development (company he sold his shares in in 2014)
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover/

The OS statement said that Lai had at least enough personal wealth to match his investment so he probably has another circa £100m to live on but you can't invest in a football club with that, less than two Kyle Walkers.

The club appears to have been sold for between £150m-£200m, taking the mid point of £175m would leave Palm with a £31.5m investment. No doubt they want to make a profit long term but they aren't going to throw money at it, only minor shareholder. Their accounts as well only showed a £7m profit in 2015, although they have a market company value of £1.65bn currently (but you have to sceptical of company valuations on the Chinese stock exchange). It will be interesting to see what they have paid for the shirt sponsorship but FFP rules kick in if it's a back door investment.

All the evidence / statements to date are consistent that the club continues to be run within existing income streams as it always has been. Nothing to suggest any external investment from the consortium of owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2017, 12:55:38 PM
Lai relied on a third party investment fund to raise the capital to buy the club. The purchase was funded as follows:

59% Lai (personal investment)
23% Yunyi investment (private equity fund)
18% Palm ecotown development (company he sold his shares in in 2014)
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover/

The OS statement said that Lai had at least enough personal wealth to match his investment so he probably has another circa £100m to live on but you can't invest in a football club with that, less than two Kyle Walkers.

The club appears to have been sold for between £150m-£200m, taking the mid point of £175m would leave Palm with a £31.5m investment. No doubt they want to make a profit long term but they aren't going to throw money at it, only minor shareholder. Their accounts as well only showed a £7m profit in 2015, although they have a market company value of £1.65bn currently (but you have to sceptical of company valuations on the Chinese stock exchange). It will be interesting to see what they have paid for the shirt sponsorship but FFP rules kick in if it's a back door investment.

All the evidence / statements to date are consistent that the club continues to be run within existing income streams as it always has been. Nothing to suggest any external investment from the consortium of owners.

I agree, but IMO we're about two players short of a team that can regularly command a top ten place in the Premier League. (Somebody to boss the midfield & a goalscorer).
I'm not saying we'll throw megga bucks at it, but if we're a couple of bob short, I think GL could well have enough to make up the difference.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 23, 2017, 01:26:57 PM
Lai relied on a third party investment fund to raise the capital to buy the club. The purchase was funded as follows:

59% Lai (personal investment)
23% Yunyi investment (private equity fund)
18% Palm ecotown development (company he sold his shares in in 2014)
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover/

The OS statement said that Lai had at least enough personal wealth to match his investment so he probably has another circa £100m to live on but you can't invest in a football club with that, less than two Kyle Walkers.

The club appears to have been sold for between £150m-£200m, taking the mid point of £175m would leave Palm with a £31.5m investment. No doubt they want to make a profit long term but they aren't going to throw money at it, only minor shareholder. Their accounts as well only showed a £7m profit in 2015, although they have a market company value of £1.65bn currently (but you have to sceptical of company valuations on the Chinese stock exchange). It will be interesting to see what they have paid for the shirt sponsorship but FFP rules kick in if it's a back door investment.

All the evidence / statements to date are consistent that the club continues to be run within existing income streams as it always has been. Nothing to suggest any external investment from the consortium of owners.
reported in press that this bloke was a billionaire?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 23, 2017, 01:30:17 PM
reported in press that this bloke was a billionaire?


and richer than the Dr. two sixpences spring to mind
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 23, 2017, 01:30:39 PM
Sadly the only person to have gained from the takeover was our Jeremy. The club is no better off for it, the transfer budget hasn't increased significantly because of it. As far as we are concerned, it may as well have never happened.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 23, 2017, 01:37:44 PM
Sadly the only person to have gained from the takeover was our Jeremy. The club is no better off for it, the transfer budget hasn't increased significantly because of it. As far as we are concerned, it may as well have never happened.




I think we have to wait a few years to see if this is true. We have to see what thier long term plans are. Our takeover seems more of a slow burner than others. At the moment for me it's let's wait and see
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on July 23, 2017, 01:43:39 PM
While Lai is unlikely to throw money around, us being relegated is hardly an attractive proposition for commercial deals oversees.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 23, 2017, 01:52:23 PM
reported in press that this bloke was a billionaire?
Yes, simple journalists taking the value capital of Palm (£1.8bn last summer) and confusing that for the wealth of Lai. Lai sold his shares in Palm in 2014. How much he owned and what he recieced for selling up are unknown. The only known is that the OS statement said he had at least as much in savings as he has paid for his share of the club which appears to be around £100m for his 59% share. Highly unlikely a billionaire investor would choose third party funding like Lai has to part fund a takeover.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on July 23, 2017, 03:41:23 PM
Hasn't the bloke spent 25m since being here on 2 players?
Can't believe people are writing him off , he hasn't been here for 12 months yet ffs.
Can't expect things over night, its progression. Lets judge him in 2020 or something.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 23, 2017, 04:56:22 PM
Hasn't the bloke spent 25m since being here on 2 players?
Can't believe people are writing him off , he hasn't been here for 12 months yet ffs.
Can't expect things over night, its progression. Lets judge him in 2020 or something.
received 12 to 15 million  on fat boy and over a million on gardener
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 23, 2017, 06:39:55 PM
Hasn't the bloke spent 25m since being here on 2 players?
Can't believe people are writing him off , he hasn't been here for 12 months yet ffs.
Can't expect things over night, its progression. Lets judge him in 2020 or something.

I don't think anyone is writing him off as being a bad person, it is just quite apparent that he isn't going to be putting much if any of his own funds in. £25m from the TV pot is not a great deal and we have recouped on Berahino and Gardner as detailed above
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hunsletbaggie on July 23, 2017, 07:47:27 PM
Sadly the only person to have gained from the takeover was our Jeremy. The club is no better off for it, the transfer budget hasn't increased significantly because of it. As far as we are concerned, it may as well have never happened.
But I thought the whole point of JP selling the club was he felt he had taken us as far as he could and would only sell to someone he thought could take us to the next level.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 23, 2017, 08:47:07 PM
But I thought the whole point of JP selling the club was he felt he had taken us as far as he could and would only sell to someone he thought could take us to the next level.

I'm really hoping that was sarcastic  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: webral on July 24, 2017, 04:40:28 AM
Lai relied on a third party investment fund to raise the capital to buy the club. The purchase was funded as follows:

59% Lai (personal investment)
23% Yunyi investment (private equity fund)
18% Palm ecotown development (company he sold his shares in in 2014)
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover/

The OS statement said that Lai had at least enough personal wealth to match his investment so he probably has another circa £100m to live on but you can't invest in a football club with that, less than two Kyle Walkers.

The club appears to have been sold for between £150m-£200m, taking the mid point of £175m would leave Palm with a £31.5m investment. No doubt they want to make a profit long term but they aren't going to throw money at it, only minor shareholder. Their accounts as well only showed a £7m profit in 2015, although they have a market company value of £1.65bn currently (but you have to sceptical of company valuations on the Chinese stock exchange). It will be interesting to see what they have paid for the shirt sponsorship but FFP rules kick in if it's a back door investment.

All the evidence / statements to date are consistent that the club continues to be run within existing income streams as it always has been. Nothing to suggest any external investment from the consortium of owners.

These private equity funds will want a return on their investment I reckon. The most likely scenario is repayment plus interest to make it worth their while. It may be that we end up paying back from profits for years to come. The investment risk is high with the chance of relegation each year so what return would they expect? 10-20% pa?
I've noticed Chinese export people and invest in assets but don't export cash very easily.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 24, 2017, 07:05:09 AM
These private equity funds will want a return on their investment I reckon. The most likely scenario is repayment plus interest to make it worth their while. It may be that we end up paying back from profits for years to come. The investment risk is high with the chance of relegation each year so what return would they expect? 10-20% pa?
I've noticed Chinese export people and invest in assets but don't export cash very easily.


Lai and Palm own 77% of the Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited and their angle seems to be to use their association with the club to tap into the Chinese football boom through the development of new towns and ingratiate themselves with the Chinese authorities. The composition of the other 23% is anyone's guess but given the nature of Chinese crony capitalism and the way it networks I would bet that the other investors are associated with Palm up and down the supply chain e.g. Contractors, Materials suppliers and architects so will either benefit directly or indirectly from Palm's success.

They are probably not looking to the club for a direct return but as soon as we see the 1st years accounts we will know because there will be a dividend paid if I'm wrong. However they are not looking for the club to cost them money either so we can also rule out substantial and speculative spending on players.

Provided the club stays in the Premier League and the media rights continue to grow (even at a slower pace) then the capital value of the club and therefore Yunyi will look after itself and provide a long term return to investors on sale. Obviously the rather large fly in that ointment is relegation the probability of which overseas investors tend to under estimate.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: webral on July 24, 2017, 10:44:00 AM
Lai and Palm own 77% of the Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited and their angle seems to be to use their association with the club to tap into the Chinese football boom through the development of new towns and ingratiate themselves with the Chinese authorities. The composition of the other 23% is anyone's guess but given the nature of Chinese crony capitalism and the way it networks I would bet that the other investors are associated with Palm up and down the supply chain e.g. Contractors, Materials suppliers and architects so will either benefit directly or indirectly from Palm's success.

They are probably not looking to the club for a direct return but as soon as we see the 1st years accounts we will know because there will be a dividend paid if I'm wrong. However they are not looking for the club to cost them money either so we can also rule out substantial and speculative spending on players.

Provided the club stays in the Premier League and the media rights continue to grow (even at a slower pace) then the capital value of the club and therefore Yunyi will look after itself and provide a long term return to investors on sale. Obviously the rather large fly in that ointment is relegation the probability of which overseas investors tend to under estimate.

It's the 23% private equity that concerns me more than Lai/Palm. I'd imagine there's some agreement in place between all parties but it remains to be seen if the 23% is just a bunch of investment bankers wanting their pound of flesh or a more supportive group aligned with the long term project. Maybe Lai/Palm could buy them out down the track if they were involved just to make up a funding shortfall. Like you say, should be more info if anyone can decipher some potentially creative accounting.
In the meantime we appear to be getting more of the same regarding transfer policy so our luck will run out eventually with such fine margins, a couple of key injuries, Pulis walking out etc, Could well be underestimated by the new owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on July 24, 2017, 10:57:10 AM
But I thought the whole point of JP selling the club was he felt he had taken us as far as he could and would only sell to someone he thought could take us to the next level.

Whilst this MAY happen (and we all hope it does),  the odds are against it.  If Mr Lai only invests the Sky money, that's not his fault. He's not robbed anyone or misled us.  He'll just be doing what most investors do.  If we have believed that rich = big spender, that's our doing.   Branson could offer free flights, Ashby could double staff wages, Dyson could halve the price of vacuums.  Lai could spend £100m on players for us.  The fact that they could, doesn't mean that they should or would.   

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on July 25, 2017, 03:25:36 PM
Whilst this MAY happen (and we all hope it does),  the odds are against it.  If Mr Lai only invests the Sky money, that's not his fault. He's not robbed anyone or misled us.  He'll just be doing what most investors do.  If we have believed that rich = big spender, that's our doing.   Branson could offer free flights, Ashby could double staff wages, Dyson could halve the price of vacuums.  Lai could spend £100m on players for us.  The fact that they could, doesn't mean that they should or would.

Spot on. I'd rather we continue to make sound financial decisions that leave us sound than become a rich mans play thing and the backside fall out of it when he gets bored.

Also, if someone invested £100m of their money and felt rightly entitled to change the stadium name or our colours or the team name, would we complain? After all, they gave us a £100m gift they had no obligation to? Or should they do it for charity?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: newbaggie on July 26, 2017, 03:48:00 PM
Did some supporters get to meet lai in hong kong recently?If they did was  anything positive come out?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 27, 2017, 11:25:29 AM
Did some supporters get to meet lai in hong kong recently?If they did was  anything positive come out?

I doubt it, the bloke can't speak English can he?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 31, 2017, 07:59:47 PM
Who the hell did Ebenezer sell this club too, sounds like this bloke could be the Chinese version of the venkys just interested in promoting his business
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on July 31, 2017, 08:00:58 PM
Who the hell did Ebenezer sell this club too, sounds like this bloke could be the Chinese version of the venkys just interested in promoting his business

Well we've not appointed Steve Kean as head coach



..yet 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 31, 2017, 08:47:13 PM
Come home Jeremy, Lai you can have your scarf back  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mikehy on July 31, 2017, 09:25:10 PM
Despite all his promises peace sold us down the river in the end. Barren years ahead I fear
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on July 31, 2017, 09:27:33 PM
Let's just get to the end of this window first maybe ? Anyone who thinks this market is simple may be missing something.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on July 31, 2017, 09:40:54 PM
Anyone who thinks Peace was looking after WBA interests are naive, he was only interested in how much he could earn on his 0 investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 31, 2017, 09:48:44 PM
Anyone who thinks Peace was looking after WBA interests are naive, he was only interested in how much he could earn on his 0 investment.

Most of us would put £150m top of a priority list over the Albion. I certainly would.

I love my house, car and contents but if someone offered me silly money I'd accept and do a runner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 31, 2017, 10:15:08 PM
Most of us would put £150m top of a priority list over the Albion. I certainly would.

I love my house, car and contents but if someone offered me silly money I'd accept and do a runner.

I completely understand your point, so would I. However there comes a point where you have enough money. Silly money of your house, car and contents wouldn't see you at that point.

Had I been Peace, I like to think I would have sold for £100m and put some clauses in for £100m to be spent on the club. Leaving a legacy with a club that I claim to support and had done very well from. Appreciating of course I had also done very well for wba too.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on July 31, 2017, 10:29:31 PM
This is our 1st summer window under Lai's ownership and there's a month to go.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 31, 2017, 10:48:30 PM
I'm not convinced the inactivity is entirely due to the owners, our Head Coach has a reputation of being picky.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on July 31, 2017, 10:50:48 PM
I'm not convinced the inactivity is entirely due to the owners, our Head Coach has a reputation of being picky.
John even I am getting a bit concerned now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 31, 2017, 10:55:15 PM
I spent some time earlier flicking through the messages of the morning of the 5th of August when the news broke we were being brought. On the whole, myself included the majority of the people were excited. I'm not sure I am nearly a year on. It appears our takeover on the face of it is a very slow burner. We have to see how these Eco towns etc will do. It appears what the majority of people hoped for, a loosening of the purse strings a little is not going to happen, but I will judge at the end of the month.  I'm not totally sure they get the state our first team squad is in at the moment and how it's crying out for investment. I'm usually level headed over these things but with players getting injured and no links or anything immediate about to happen it's tough going at the min. It also does not help that our nearest and dearest also are owned by Chinese and they appears to want to invest whilst ours is taking a longer route. Not sure what to make of WBA at the moment but we seem in a total mess
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on July 31, 2017, 10:57:20 PM
Anyone who thinks Peace was looking after WBA interests are naive, he was only interested in how much he could earn on his 0 investment.

Totally agree, that in my opinion was always his main priority, looking after his own interests first.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 31, 2017, 10:59:29 PM
Chairman needs to stand up for club with owner and explain the situation we need players to walk into first team and that requires money.





Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on August 01, 2017, 01:29:14 AM
Can somebody explain the logic behind jumping to conclusions a month before the transfer window please? I genuinely dont understand why you'd be so negative when you could be left with egg on your face?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on August 01, 2017, 03:25:29 AM
Because it is the same every year, we sit in hope that something will happen at the death and it doesn't. The squad needs players urgently and once again we will start the season short. Club said it had learned from last year but it is just PR to set season tickets up. If a miracle happens and we bring in three or four quality players I will be as happy as anyone, problem is it just doesn't look likely now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on August 01, 2017, 04:05:27 AM
I'm reserving my judgment on Mr Lai until the window closes, but I hope he is aware that his £175m investment is resting on what this club does in the next 4 weeks. I know he wants to run the club sensibly and I'm all for that but in the current climate and the financial state of the club there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to spend £40-50m this summer without breaking bank.

He needs to find out why we aren't making signings and take action. If the reason isn't to do with the manager or the recruitment department and is in fact because he won't release the necessary funds, then I hope he is fully aware that he's about to p*ss his £175m up the wall. I hope, both for Lai's and the club's sake, that the nature of the transfer window is what is holding the transfer business up and we can get deals done before its too late.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 01, 2017, 08:15:36 AM
John even I am getting a bit concerned now.

Somebody's playing a brinkmanship game. Don't think it's Lai (he's not involved in day to day).
TP has the final say on player acquisition.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on August 01, 2017, 08:31:27 AM
Can somebody explain the logic behind jumping to conclusions a month before the transfer window please? I genuinely dont understand why you'd be so negative when you could be left with egg on your face?

The issue is that last season we had an ok starting 11, but after that we were very shallow and after a few injuries/drop in form it really showed...especially by the way we ended the season. The squad was/is crying out for a bit of investment and the new season is under 2 weeks to go. So, I can see why fans are getting restless. Personally I'm still giving it time, I'm sure we'll get a few more players in but until then I can understand peoples frustrations.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 01, 2017, 08:37:10 AM
I'm reserving my judgment on Mr Lai until the window closes, but I hope he is aware that his £175m investment is resting on what this club does in the next 4 weeks. I know he wants to run the club sensibly and I'm all for that but in the current climate and the financial state of the club there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to spend £40-50m this summer without breaking bank.

He needs to find out why we aren't making signings and take action. If the reason isn't to do with the manager or the recruitment department and is in fact because he won't release the necessary funds, then I hope he is fully aware that he's about to p*ss his £175m up the wall. I hope, both for Lai's and the club's sake, that the nature of the transfer window is what is holding the transfer business up and we can get deals done before its too late.
being reported that Chinese owner won't release fund's to buy Gibson or smalling don't know is it the fee or what
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 01, 2017, 08:46:10 AM
Can somebody explain the logic behind jumping to conclusions a month before the transfer window please? I genuinely dont understand why you'd be so negative when you could be left with egg on your face?

There isn't any logic to it. Being a football fan isn't logical, it's like religion it requires faith, superstition, a personal interpretation of what being a true fan means etc etc.

I'm not panicking but I am frustrated at our lack of activity particularly around getting players in for the positions we need such as left back and midfield, the frustration for me is that we have been strongly linked with 2 left backs in Taylor and Gibbs yet we have found reasons not to sign either that appear to be about money, which we could easily afford, rather than because they wouldn't improve the starting 11.

I do think we'll sign another 3 players with 2 of those being first team starters, but I think they will be a central defender and a midfielder, with a striker being brought in on loan, so we will still be short of a proper left back.
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 01, 2017, 08:46:41 AM
being reported that Chinese owner won't release fund's to buy Gibson or smalling don't know is it the fee or what

Any links?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 01, 2017, 08:46:54 AM
being reported that Chinese owner won't release fund's to buy Gibson or smalling don't know is it the fee or what
Where did you hear that from? If it is true then we are in for a rough ride with Mr Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 01, 2017, 08:50:07 AM
Any links?
on sky sports app yesterday morning believe it was mirror
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 01, 2017, 08:56:54 AM
on sky sports app yesterday morning believe it was mirror

Cheers.

I have to say I never believe anything I see that's from The Mirror. If it is true it would go against Mr Lai's stated wish to make us an established Top 10 side.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mikehy on August 01, 2017, 09:05:42 AM
Cheers.

I have to say I never believe anything I see that's from The Mirror. If it is true it would go against Mr Lai's stated wish to make us an established Top 10 side.
I Think the time has come for John Williams to make an announcement to the fans either to quash or confirm this rumour as total silence seems to actually confirm it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 01, 2017, 09:13:57 AM
I Think the time has come for John Williams to make an announcement to the fans either to quash or confirm this rumour as total silence seems to actually confirm it.

Really? Someone from the club needs to address every rumour? Not going to happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 01, 2017, 09:15:59 AM
Can somebody explain the logic behind jumping to conclusions a month before the transfer window please? I genuinely dont understand why you'd be so negative when you could be left with egg on your face?

Its all down to "the Groundhog Day Syndrome"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 01, 2017, 09:18:00 AM
Its all down to "the Groundhog Day Syndrome"

The Groundhog Day Syndrome where every year we moan about the transfers as if it's the end of the world and then have been perfectly fine at the end of the season?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 01, 2017, 09:20:59 AM
So a rumour pertaining to our new owner refusing to release funds came out yesterday, but didn't make it onto here until today? Really?

If this is true then you lot need to get your collective finger out  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 01, 2017, 09:21:16 AM
I Think the time has come for John Williams to make an announcement to the fans either to quash or confirm this rumour as total silence seems to actually confirm it.

I don't think John Williams or the club has to do any such thing. We have made two first team signings and there is a month left in the transfer window. I would like to think that we are quietly going about our business.

There are too many media outlets 'misinforming' fans of all clubs of potential signings, issues etc - I don't see why the club has to respond to any of this misinformation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on August 01, 2017, 09:36:15 AM
on sky sports app yesterday morning believe it was mirror

That Nursey fella on twitter wrote something about it aswell saying the Chinese were trying to run it same way as JP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 01, 2017, 09:51:07 AM
For me it's not about money spent, the important thing is how the club is run going forward. Peace, during the last few years kind've operated on a holding basis to see him through til the sale. Therefore, the squad was fairly bare, although set up with just enough to stay up.

We were told, after Lai's takeover the club wanted to establish itself in the top 10. To do this, we all know there is more quality and depth needed in the team/ squad. This could be done without spending huge amounts hence why I'm not only judging ££ spent. I'll give it til the end of this window and judge it then. I must admit, so far it does look like Lai will operate in a similar way to Peace i.e. with a stripped back squad with the ultimate aim of treading water by just staying in the premier league. The proof is in the pudding no matter what the club, Pulis or anyone says in the meantime.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mikehy on August 01, 2017, 10:00:50 AM
Really? Someone from the club needs to address every rumour? Not going to happen.
I didn't say someone from the club should address every rumour but they should a rumour as big as our owner not willing to release enough money for us to just stand still let alone move on. Fans deserve to know if there is anything in this before spendiing any more money
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 01, 2017, 10:07:18 AM
I didn't say someone from the club should address every rumour but they should a rumour as big as our owner not willing to release enough money for us to just stand still let alone move on. Fans deserve to know if there is anything in this before spendiing any more money

Well wait for another 30 days and then you will know the answer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 01, 2017, 10:29:05 AM
Well wait for another 30 days and then you will know the answer.

Spot on.

Proof is in the pudding. We'll see how we'll approach things e.g. with a squad just good enough to stay up with the intention of hitting the top 10 regularly like we were told when Lai came in? Still too early to judge, a few clubs might be moving on quality players towards the end of the window (hopelessly optimistic Albion fan here)?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mikehy on August 01, 2017, 10:34:20 AM
Well wait for another 30 days and then you will know the answer.
please do not patronize me. I am as entitled to my opinion as much as the happy clappy brigade
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 01, 2017, 10:34:32 AM
The Groundhog Day Syndrome where every year we moan about the transfers as if it's the end of the world and then have been perfectly fine at the end of the season?

When was the last transfer window were you thought we had done enough to push on or improved or squad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: B_H_Baggie on August 01, 2017, 10:48:09 AM
That Nursey fella on twitter wrote something about it aswell saying the Chinese were trying to run it same way as JP.

When they completed the purchase of the club they told us they were going to be running it in the same way as JP was so its hardly breaking news to us. They have come in and done exactly what the said they were going to do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on August 01, 2017, 10:50:44 AM
They might do enough to stay up. But the squad lacks talent. The pure lack of intent every year is rotting away the excitement for fans.

Lai was meant to take it further where peace couldn't. Regardless of running a tight ship. Why talk big like schnerdlin and carvalho. Just don't make sense.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 01, 2017, 11:03:51 AM
Here's the link from the Daily Mirrors Nursey.

He doesn't state anything which hasn't already been posted on here x amount of times.

Manager in frustration shock.........

https://twitter.com/JamesNursey/status/891944053927030784 (https://twitter.com/JamesNursey/status/891944053927030784)

James Nursey‏
@JamesNursey
 Follow

in @DailyMirror: Pulis facing frustration as hopes fade of landing Gibson & Smalling. #WBA's Chinese owners trying to run club like Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on August 01, 2017, 11:17:34 AM
When was the last transfer window were you thought we had done enough to push on or improved or squad.

Many years ago when Kanu etc was signed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 01, 2017, 11:30:05 AM
please do not patronize me. I am as entitled to my opinion as much as the happy clappy brigade
I ay patronising anyone, it is a fact we will know in 30 days if the rumours are true or not. The club wont be saying anything to anyone about finances. BTW I am not one of the happy clappy brigade.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 01, 2017, 11:30:25 AM
Many years ago when Kanu etc was signed.

13 seasons   :-[

I do think (hope) that mr Lai can still break this chain but i'm not holding my breath

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 01, 2017, 11:35:02 AM
When was the last transfer window were you thought we had done enough to push on or improved or squad.

Honestly? None of them in recent memory. But then I look at where we finish and correlate that whether I'm worried or not, we survived the season, and bar one season in the last 7/8, quite comfortably so.

Unlike some I learn from experience and that a) worrying now won't change anything other than make me miserable and b) I've worried in the past and we've been fine. If this season is the one our luck runs out, then I'll criticise the club for not strengthening now. I'm not going to have a fit and kick off and get angry when I could have done that the last 7 seasons and been proven wrong every time. How many can say they moaned in pre-season, then stood up at the end of May and said 'well, I was wrong, maybe I'll cut the team some slack. I mean, me having a rant online doesn't change anything, so why bother?'

If you take a step back and stop worrying about perceived doom and gloom you spot some funny ironies - like those people saying we're going down this year are the ones that'll say it next year (and the last 7), there's folk who want us relegated to get Pulis sacked, but then blame the club for not strengthening (oh, where'd my cake go, I was eating that!) and my absolute favourite, the fans who are concerned about player resale values and then blame the club for being run like a business.

It's been a bloody lovely post season, roll on the 12th  8) If you're happy and you know it clap your hands...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 01, 2017, 11:41:54 AM
We won't go down even if the window closed at midday today.


We have strengthened the 1st XI as things stand. That's not to say I don't want a couple more in but the hand wringing as per is well over the top.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jordie1471 on August 01, 2017, 11:58:37 AM
We won't go down even if the window closed at midday today.


We have strengthened the 1st XI as things stand. That's not to say I don't want a couple more in but the hand wringing as per is well over the top.

Agreed. Almost every post contains the phrase 'we need xyz'

Need for what though?

If the club's target is to stay up then we need 0 new players.

If the club target is top 12 then we probably will need to sign 2 or 3 (which in all likelihood will happen) and if the target is top 7 or higher, well frankly we would 'need' 11+ new players then
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: collins101 on August 01, 2017, 12:03:06 PM
We won't go down even if the window closed at midday today.


We have strengthened the 1st XI as things stand. That's not to say I don't want a couple more in but the hand wringing as per is well over the top.

Are you sure ? So if Phillips and Rondon/Rodriguez spend any length of time out injured you're confident we'll stay up ?

I'm sure our results tailored off with only Phillips out injured.

Not for me
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on August 01, 2017, 12:18:11 PM
Are you sure ? So if Phillips and Rondon/Rodriguez spend any length of time out injured you're confident we'll stay up ?

I'm sure our results tailored off with only Phillips out injured.

Not for me
hard one to say as Phillips got injured right around when we got to 40 points (I think it was the week before and we beat Bournemouth without him).

Going by Pulis' previous attempts at points after reaching 40, I'd argue that Phillips being out was more of a coincidence that an integral part of our poor march onwards.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kanu on August 01, 2017, 12:21:37 PM

I find it quite worrying that fans actually believe we'll be as safe as houses with this current squad. What would be more worrying would be if our board thought the same.
At least TP has come out and said we need 3 or 4 more.
We're not stronger than last year. Morrison and GMac aren't fit to start the season. Fletcher has gone and not been replaced.
Hegazi is a gamble, one we went for as he has cost very little. JRod is an exciting addition but his injury record is a worry.
Phillips' hamstring has struck again, he barely kicked a ball for the last 12 games of last season and if he misses a large chunk of this season then that's a lot of goals and assists we're going to miss.
We need new players now, this week, it all kicks off in 11 days. We have 5 winable games to start with and if we start with say 2 draws and 3  defeats then it's going to be even harder to survive. We are NOT certs to stay up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 01, 2017, 12:22:36 PM
We won't go down even if the window closed at midday today.


We have strengthened the 1st XI as things stand. That's not to say I don't want a couple more in but the hand wringing as per is well over the top.

Can't disagree. My gripe with our transfer activity is wanting a bit more than just the staying up, an evolution in our style of play to actually string a few passes together and look a threat on the deck as opposed to just getting the big men up at set pieces and bringing the players in to facilitate this. Sadly I know it is never going to happen under the current manager so I have largely given up complaining from that perspective.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 01, 2017, 12:45:45 PM
I find it quite worrying that fans actually believe we'll be as safe as houses with this current squad. What would be more worrying would be if our board thought the same.
At least TP has come out and said we need 3 or 4 more.
We're not stronger than last year. Morrison and GMac aren't fit to start the season. Fletcher has gone and not been replaced.
Hegazi is a gamble, one we went for as he has cost very little. JRod is an exciting addition but his injury record is a worry.
Phillips' hamstring has struck again, he barely kicked a ball for the last 12 games of last season and if he misses a large chunk of this season then that's a lot of goals and assists we're going to miss.
We need new players now, this week, it all kicks off in 11 days. We have 5 winable games to start with and if we start with say 2 draws and 3  defeats then it's going to be even harder to survive. We are NOT certs to stay up.

Don't think anyone has said we are certs to stay up, more that we have the same meltdown before every season yet usually manage to stay up often quite comfortably.

Matt Phillips reported a tight hamstring and was not played as a precaution, rather than the hamstring injury reoccurring.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 01, 2017, 12:59:18 PM
Mr Lai is aware of our need for players according to Pulis.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-owner-guochuan-lai-13414759
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 01, 2017, 01:01:38 PM
So if Phillips and Rondon/Rodriguez spend any length of time out injured you're confident we'll stay up ?

If Rondon is injured we might score a few goals and pick up some points. He's been borderline useless for the last seven months.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 01, 2017, 01:10:38 PM
We won't go down even if the window closed at midday today.


We have strengthened the 1st XI as things stand. That's not to say I don't want a couple more in but the hand wringing as per is well over the top.

Exactly. We'd all love some exciting players brought in. But the sad fact is we don't NEED to spend tens of millions on players for us to stay up. And while that's still the case, we won't.

Here's a statistic for you:

We finished 10th in the league last year. Based solely off league position prize money we received: £21.1m
Had we finished 8th we'd have won - £25m

So we'd have won £3.9m more.

Let's say we overtook Everton back when we had the chance and finished 7th - £26.9m

So £5.8m more for finishing 7th.

Now, could we have spent only £6m more (what's that, a youth player nowadays?) and finished 7th. Absolutely no chance. With defenders going for £20m+ this year, what is the point in spending that kind of money to get only £6m back for the troubles?

Now realistically we got £120m or there abouts from TOTAL prize money. But only a fraction of what we make as a club has anything to do with where we finish in the league. If we'd finished TOP OF THE LEAGUE, we'd have earnt £17.3m more money than we did. That's a single player nowadays.

So next time anyone thinks 'lets spend £50-60m every pre-season and we can really be ambitious' there's very little incentive reward wise to do so.

YES we can spend what we earn, we can spend £120m (minus 50m or so in wages) per year. But what is the actual point? If we spent £40m more and finished 7th last season, we'd be £34m worse off than we are now. You do that enough seasons in a row chasing 'ambitious' (see unrealistic) dreams, you have no money left.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 01, 2017, 01:26:48 PM
Exactly. We'd all love some exciting players brought in. But the sad fact is we don't NEED to spend tens of millions on players for us to stay up. And while that's still the case, we won't.

Here's a statistic for you:

We finished 10th in the league last year. Based solely off league position prize money we received: £21.1m
Had we finished 8th we'd have won - £25m

So we'd have won £3.9m more.

Let's say we overtook Everton back when we had the chance and finished 7th - £26.9m

So £5.8m more for finishing 7th.

Now, could we have spent only £6m more (what's that, a youth player nowadays?) and finished 7th. Absolutely no chance. With defenders going for £20m+ this year, what is the point in spending that kind of money to get only £6m back for the troubles?

Now realistically we got £120m or there abouts from TOTAL prize money. But only a fraction of what we make as a club has anything to do with where we finish in the league. If we'd finished TOP OF THE LEAGUE, we'd have earnt £17.3m more money than we did. That's a single player nowadays.

So next time anyone thinks 'lets spend £50-60m every pre-season and we can really be ambitious' there's very little incentive reward wise to do so.

YES we can spend what we earn, we can spend £120m (minus 50m or so in wages) per year. But what is the actual point? If we spent £40m more and finished 7th last season, we'd be £34m worse off than we are now. You do that enough seasons in a row chasing 'ambitious' (see unrealistic) dreams, you have no money left.

Not much chance of that happening the way things stand at the moment  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 01, 2017, 01:32:33 PM
you want chumpionship mr lai then its coming near you very soon if you dont get your wallet out
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 01, 2017, 01:41:44 PM
you want chumpionship mr lai then its coming near you very soon if you dont get your wallet out

Haven't you predicted us to get relegated every season  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 01, 2017, 02:05:49 PM
Haven't you predicted us to get relegated every season  :D

Did we not get relegated?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Legend on August 01, 2017, 03:03:45 PM
Haven't you predicted us to get relegated every season  :D

It is funny to see the same old doom and gloom merchants predict every year we will go down. They'll probably be right one year and tell everyone "I told you so" just like a broken clock is right twice a day.

Just like every year I tell everyone "Relax we'll be fine" which ends up being the case.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 01, 2017, 03:18:07 PM
Haven't you predicted us to get relegated every season  :D


not over the last 4 seasons no. i dont think we will this season either but i not keen on sweating
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 01, 2017, 03:18:55 PM
It is funny to see the same old doom and gloom merchants predict every year we will go down. They'll probably be right one year and tell everyone "I told you so" just like a broken clock is right twice a day.

Just like every year I tell everyone "Relax we'll be fine" which ends up being the case.


oh and along comes mr optimistic who has a feeling
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Astle1968 on August 01, 2017, 03:52:55 PM
It is funny to see the same old doom and gloom merchants predict every year we will go down. They'll probably be right one year and tell everyone "I told you so" just like a broken clock is right twice a day.

Just like every year I tell everyone "Relax we'll be fine" which ends up being the case.

A great example why as a club we don't/wont progress and as a fanbase we are largely split

Another poor transfer window (to date)
Mainly linked with boring/dull/uninspiring players
Most importantly the football is absolute pooh and shows absolutely no sign of changing

But if you point any of this out you're a doom monger/whinger/impatient etc etc. And of course we will on the balance of probability stay in the league (as we well should with our 1st 11, squad and resources) so whats the problem as 'we will be fine'

There was an Albion long before the premier league, and there will be an Albion long after we get relegated from it which will 100% happen be it this year or in 5 years or in 20 years. I'd wager most of us were supporting Albion before we got promoted and most will be supporting after.

Going to watch Albion now is not enjoyable for me, or certainly not as enjoyable as it has been in the past 20 years even when watching Mickey Evans lumber about with the likes of Jimmy Quinn and when he remembered the ko time Fabien De Freitas. So whilst PL football means everything to some fans to some others it means absolutely nothing and so is not a measure of us being 'fine'.

I look forward to out first win of the season and the first few '3 down, 37 to go' posts.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Cantello on August 01, 2017, 04:20:13 PM
I've been a supporter since 1965 and in my view all the flair and excitement has gone from this club.  It's just a business now and my interest in it wanes more and more each season.  In fact, I'm bored to death with it. Let's face it, the seasons championship were 100 times more fun.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ashdoy on August 01, 2017, 05:00:44 PM
I've been a supporter since 1965 and in my view all the flair and excitement has gone from this club.  It's just a business now and my interest in it wanes more and more each season.  In fact, I'm bored to death with it. Let's face it, the seasons championship were 100 times more fun.

Would not bother me one bit if we went down, as long as we had an Albion I couldn't care.

Never understood why some "fans" only go coz we're in the Prem.

I go to see Albion, not Chelsea or City or whatnot.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on August 01, 2017, 06:08:46 PM
Would not bother me one bit if we went down, as long as we had an Albion I couldn't care.

Never understood why some "fans" only go coz we're in the Prem.

I go to see Albion, not Chelsea or City or whatnot.

 I have to agree with you. Iv'e been a supporter since 1977 and ive seen some great times and some very bad ones but i will follow the Albion till i die does not matter what division we are in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 01, 2017, 06:31:59 PM
We won't go down even if the window closed at midday today.


We have strengthened the 1st XI as things stand. That's not to say I don't want a couple more in but the hand wringing as per is well over the top.

Usually find myself agreeing with you Jacko, even when many find you controversial.

Not on this occasion though. I think if the window closed today we would be at real risk of going down. By the time the window does close we will have played 3 games and really need to have 5 points or more given the opposition. If we don't and we haven't strengthened significantly then we will be looking at a long hard season. The mood and atmosphere will be detrimental too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Astle1968 on August 01, 2017, 07:23:35 PM
Usually find myself agreeing with you Jacko, even when many find you controversial.

Not on this occasion though. I think if the window closed today we would be at real risk of going down. By the time the window does close we will have played 3 games and really need to have 5 points or more given the opposition. If we don't and we haven't strengthened significantly then we will be looking at a long hard season. The mood and atmosphere will be detrimental too.

We will always be at risk of going down but we don't have one of the 3 worst starting 11's, or one of the 3 worst squads or one of the the worst managers (based on results anyway)

By no means does that guarantee us safety as there's probably 2 or 3 teams comfortably worse than us on paper and then another 10 who are all pretty similar to us. A couple of good/lucky/scrappy wins is the difference between 16th and 8th and possibly relegation and safety but just as a numbers game there's probably 12 teams right now at risk of relegation and 3 going down gives us a 75% chance of staying up
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 02, 2017, 01:06:32 AM
Being this paper thin at the start of the season has to be a concern to all Albion fans. In the last few seasons I can only recall Ben and Chris being injured for a substantial amount of time, we have been lucky on that front but our look could change with injuries to key players
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on August 02, 2017, 06:56:07 AM
Being this paper thin at the start of the season has to be a concern to all Albion fans. In the last few seasons I can only recall Ben and Chris being injured for a substantial amount of time, we have been lucky on that front but our look could change with injuries to key players

Mozza was also out for a long time also.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kanu on August 02, 2017, 08:29:00 AM
We won't go down even if the window closed at midday today.


We have strengthened the 1st XI as things stand. That's not to say I don't want a couple more in but the hand wringing as per is well over the top.

It's amazing how fans see things differently. Personally I'd say it's a good job you don't work for the club. On the other hand your comment that we'd be ok if the window shut yesterday suggests that maybe you do.
Even Pulis says we desperately need 4 or 5 more. He knows that this current squad could well be a fire fighting job too far for him. Thank god he's actually admitting we're desperately short on numbers and quality, unlike some happy clappers on here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on August 02, 2017, 08:54:45 AM
It's amazing how fans see things differently. Personally I'd say it's a good job you don't work for the club. On the other hand your comment that we'd be ok if the window shut yesterday suggests that maybe you do.
Even Pulis says we desperately need 4 or 5 more. He knows that this current squad could well be a fire fighting job too far for him. Thank god he's actually admitting we're desperately short on numbers and quality, unlike some happy clappers on here.
Apart from the poster that you quoted, is anyone actually saying this? I think the entire fanbase is in unison that we need more players and are far too thin - I don't think I've seen anyone suggest otherwise.

Funnily enough, an article yesterday said Lai knows we need more players, hopefully we get some in then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on August 02, 2017, 04:02:27 PM
It is true that we HAVE improved the starting 11; Rodriguez offers one thing we needed and Hegazi looks like he may be an improvement on McAuley based on the end of the season when he was injured a lot and he had his run of poor form. Add to that, Fletcher left and his performances left a lot to be desired.

I'm not saying i don't think we need to improve it further but from a totally pragmatic point of view; a top 10 premier league starting 11 has been improved.

The way it's going i would expect Pulis to run his contract down. I have knocked him but it's looking like we haven't learned from last year. If it's the recruitment team butting heads with Pulis regarding targets then that needs to be addressed and we need a long term plan where everybody is working harmoniously.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on August 02, 2017, 06:12:38 PM
We are a shambles.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on August 02, 2017, 06:44:42 PM
It is true that we HAVE improved the starting 11; Rodriguez offers one thing we needed and Hegazi looks like he may be an improvement on McAuley based on the end of the season when he was injured a lot and he had his run of poor form. Add to that, Fletcher left and his performances left a lot to be desired.

I'm not saying i don't think we need to improve it further but from a totally pragmatic point of view; a top 10 premier league starting 11 has been improved.

The way it's going i would expect Pulis to run his contract down. I have knocked him but it's looking like we haven't learned from last year. If it's the recruitment team butting heads with Pulis regarding targets then that needs to be addressed and we need a long term plan where everybody is working harmoniously.
Problem is teams around us have better improved in my opinion, what was the points difference between us and 14/15, not many
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on August 02, 2017, 07:02:19 PM
I think Jeremy has sold us down the Yangtze
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 02, 2017, 09:40:38 PM
Problem is teams around us have better improved in my opinion, what was the points difference between us and 14/15, not many


Everyone said the same last summer. Everyone else has improved we've stood still... finished 10th.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sing on our own on August 03, 2017, 08:33:35 AM

Everyone said the same last summer. Everyone else has improved we've stood still... finished 10th.
Finishing 10th like when we finished 8th with Clarke papered over the cracks you need to look at the bigger picture and momentum is massive in football, it's often the way teams who tail off start slowly and how many points off relegation were we last season? I'm not being negative just realistic. I had my first ST in the late 80's so I've seen lots of disasters and can see when one is on the way unless things change in some way quickly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 03, 2017, 08:46:52 AM
Finishing 10th like when we finished 8th with Clarke papered over the cracks you need to look at the bigger picture and momentum is massive in football, it's often the way teams who tail off start slowly and how many points off relegation were we last season? I'm not being negative just realistic. I had my first ST in the late 80's so I've seen lots of disasters and can see when one is on the way unless things change in some way quickly.

last season we finished 11 points above Hull, the season before we finished 6 points above Newcastle.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 03, 2017, 05:19:31 PM
I'm not sure what anybody was expecting from the new ownership but the moment they walked in they were clear  they valued continuity and the business model that Peace had in place. Okay so that means that we haven't had a splurge in the transfer market with lot's of marque signings that often tend to be showy additions rather than a sound investment but nor have we had to put up with any nonsense about changing the club's name badge or any of our other cherished traditions.

Unfortunately what the ownership also inherited was a outmoded dinosaur of a head coach and a very traditional football man in Williams all well and good but when those two things meet a responsible budget it's pretty uninspiring If signing players is the only way we can raise the bar well frankly we're up the creek without a paddle anyway.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on August 03, 2017, 06:27:19 PM

Everyone said the same last summer. Everyone else has improved we've stood still... finished 10th.

and should have finished 6th
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 03, 2017, 07:02:50 PM
and should have finished 6th


In what dream world?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ross on August 03, 2017, 07:30:15 PM
The issue is that we have no ambition. 40 points and go on holiday. That's a mentality fed down by the manager and players of yo-yo era I.e Brunt. Hopefully Lai hasn't bought into this. Once we got to 40 points we were lazy. That mentality has got to exit our club. We're always glass half empty.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on August 03, 2017, 08:54:37 PM
Last 14 games. 1 win 2 draws. 11 defeats. Says it all. Aging, tired and threadbare squad. Even more threadbare now
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on August 03, 2017, 09:41:08 PM

In what dream world?

In the real world mate.
No team worth their salt should take 5 points from their last 14 games.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on August 03, 2017, 09:54:54 PM
6th spot on 69 points was out of our reach, but 7th on 61 was a possibility if we had averaged close to our points per game ratio up to the last 14 games.
what we did was shocking.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 03, 2017, 10:50:11 PM
In the real world mate.
No team worth their salt should take 5 points from their last 14 games.


You're not in the real world if you think we should have finished 6th or even 7th with that squad. Our good and bad spells can in big chunks instead of win 3 lose 3 type runs. We probably finished about 1 under par on the season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on August 03, 2017, 10:52:39 PM
Ageing, tired, threadbare squad with best attacking player of the season injured for that entire period.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 03, 2017, 11:39:19 PM
6th spot on 69 points was out of our reach, but 7th on 61 was a possibility if we had averaged close to our points per game ratio up to the last 14 games.
what we did was shocking.

Nailed it.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on August 03, 2017, 11:53:33 PM
would we be so forgiving if we get 5 points from our opening 14 matches, because we still have this aging squad and the player with the most threat who missed the last 14 matches has still got injury problems.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on August 04, 2017, 08:16:28 AM
would we be so forgiving if we get 5 points from our opening 14 matches, because we still have this aging squad and the player with the most threat who missed the last 14 matches has still got injury problems.

No we wouldn't, neither would the board.
The manager would be gone
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 04, 2017, 08:54:54 AM
Getting back to Guochuan Lai.

I'm not an expert in Chinese affairs, but I understand that the President has scaled down the amount of cash that is allowed to leave China.

When TP & JW visited China Lai had allegedly allocated £40 million for transfer funds. I assume that this is £40 million in addition to the cash generated by WBAFC.

Just wondering if the £40 million is now no longer available.

Can any "Chinese" specialists help?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 04, 2017, 08:55:52 AM
Okay so that means that we haven't had a splurge in the transfer market with lot's of marque signings

A splurge? We're still waiting for a drip.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 04, 2017, 08:58:23 AM
Money leaving China isn't an issue as Lai isn't investing any money into the club. Our only revenue is what we generate through TV, commercial, tickets, club shop etc. Hence we're small time in attitude and action.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 04, 2017, 11:11:03 AM
Getting back to Guochuan Lai.

I'm not an expert in Chinese affairs, but I understand that the President has scaled down the amount of cash that is allowed to leave China.

When TP & JW visited China Lai had allegedly allocated £40 million for transfer funds. I assume that this is £40 million in addition to the cash generated by WBAFC.

Just wondering if the £40 million is now no longer available.

Can any "Chinese" specialists help?

£40m is within the club's locally generated resources. There has never been any suggestion that additional funds were coming from China. The one possible exception is the Zhang deal and it will be interesting to see how that was funded.

The thing that people need to understand is this that while the Chinese economy looks like a rapidly growing capitalist one that has thrown up dozens of billionaires almost overnight unlike their Western counterparts they are only tolerated by the regime in that they are towing the party line and making a positive contribution to the States aims.

It is incredibly nuanced. The Party Leader Xi Jinping signaled that Football was one of the states priorities. What he didn't do was state exactly how this was going to be delivered. This has generated a lot of activity in the Chinese business community  from Chinese clubs buying overseas talent to investing in European clubs in an attempt to get aboard the football band wagon. Frankly it got out of hand and the Chinese authorities have basically pulled the plug on the CSL and new overseas investments.

The Lai takeover couldn't happen today. How much control the state will exercise remains to be seen but in extreme cases can and will force Chinese Companies to sell overseas assets. If one of the overseas clubs is too heavy drain on resources they will get chopped off pretty quickly.

Lai's approach seems pretty shrewd. The football academy model will generate results that the state wants e.g. China to progress as an International football nation. It will generate long term gains for the club in China but what it won't do is fund additional transfers in the here and now.

Sorry but this was very obvious from the word go and fans cannot be surprised or disappointed at the outcome.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on August 04, 2017, 11:22:34 AM
Good post Standaman.
So we may just be in a more stable sustainable position with Lai than some other clubs are with their owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 04, 2017, 11:23:32 AM
the longer we stay in the greed league the more our expectations will grow. its time to kick on and compete if you want to keep a few interested especilally the ones that live miles away
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 04, 2017, 11:57:55 AM
Good post Standaman.
So we may just be in a more stable sustainable position with Lai than some other clubs are with their owners.

Yes but one thing I would add that Chinese business entities are complex and opaque by western standards. I saw a schematic of the business networks behind Fosun (I think) who own Wolves and it made my head hurt. So for instance if they have substantial cash generative businesses outside China the money can keep flowing, if they aren't dependent on bank finance (and therefore monetary authority approval) again they have more scope but ultimately when the Chinese state says jump the question is how high?

The thing is from our point of view the casual observer there are influences in the internal politics of China which are from obvious that could have a direct consequences on the club's future. The more self sustaining we are the better the more reliant we are on funds from China the more vulnerable we are to arbitrary changes to Chinese policy on football overseas investment and monetary control.   

Personally I welcomed the takeover because it at least ended the Peace era that had run out of steam but I have never been under any illusions that there are issues with Chinese ownership and self sustaining ownership and the current model we have a the club. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 04, 2017, 12:29:48 PM
Trade war with America and China could disrupt Chinese business's abroad in near future
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 04, 2017, 12:43:39 PM
just had to tell one of my customers today his welding wire is going up by £5.00 per 15kg reel on his next purchase. guess where it comes from.Bloody Brexit .
have a word will you Mr Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on August 04, 2017, 01:35:19 PM
Getting back to Guochuan Lai.

I'm not an expert in Chinese affairs, but I understand that the President has scaled down the amount of cash that is allowed to leave China.

When TP & JW visited China Lai had allegedly allocated £40 million for transfer funds. I assume that this is £40 million in addition to the cash generated by WBAFC.

Just wondering if the £40 million is now no longer available.

Can any "Chinese" specialists help?

Not a Chinese expert, but...

Last seasons earnings = £120 million (approximately)

Albion wage bill = £75 million (approx)

Remainder = £45 million (again, approx)

I would expect that £40 million budget was simply what we've earned being reinvested.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 04, 2017, 01:38:02 PM
Yes but one thing I would add that Chinese business entities are complex and opaque by western standards. I saw a schematic of the business networks behind Fosun (I think) who own Wolves and it made my head hurt. So for instance if they have substantial cash generative businesses outside China the money can keep flowing, if they aren't dependent on bank finance (and therefore monetary authority approval) again they have more scope but ultimately when the Chinese state says jump the question is how high?

The thing is from our point of view the casual observer there are influences in the internal politics of China which are from obvious that could have a direct consequences on the club's future. The more self sustaining we are the better the more reliant we are on funds from China the more vulnerable we are to arbitrary changes to Chinese policy on football overseas investment and monetary control.   

Personally I welcomed the takeover because it at least ended the Peace era that had run out of steam but I have never been under any illusions that there are issues with Chinese ownership and self sustaining ownership and the current model we have a the club.

Thanks for clearing that up Stan, have to say, running WBAFC as an independent entity does make sense, at least we won't be saddled with external debt if Lai decides to move on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Tank on August 04, 2017, 05:31:35 PM
just had to tell one of my customers today his welding wire is going up by £5.00 per 15kg reel on his next purchase. guess where it comes from.Bloody Brexit .
have a word will you Mr Lai

Welding  ???
I thought it was all farming and f fox hunting down there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 04, 2017, 07:07:18 PM
Interestingly Northampton have today announced a major investment from Chinese consortium, seems to fly in the face of the "block" on investment xcenario
Investors are from Guangzhou same part of china as Palm
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on August 04, 2017, 09:27:27 PM
The huge number of empty seats in Sunderland's first home match tonight should serve as a timely reminder to Mr Lai that unless he digs deep in the next few weeks the picture will be very similar at The Hawthorns next season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 05, 2017, 03:14:29 AM
The huge number of empty seats in Sunderland's first home match tonight should serve as a timely reminder to Mr Lai that unless he digs deep in the next few weeks the picture will be very similar at The Hawthorns next season.

It wont though. It should but it wont. What people should do instead or alongside their moaning is refuse to go to games and refuse to buy merchandise. That way a clear message is sent to Lai and the board. Ive seen it to much over the years when people moan to their hearts content but in the same breath talk about how they have brought this years kit and have a season ticket they are waiting on. I love this club no different to anyone else i can gurantee you of that but i now pick and choose my matches as opposed to putting so much money down on a season ticket. Infact these days i would much rather watch the game in a pub. The premier league sadly brings alot of people to the games these days who arent there to watch the Albion and it kills the atmosphere. I remember the days when the Smethwick used to absolutley bounce. Its nowhere near as good these days. Im a firm believer in voting with your wallet if you dont like how things are done then dont go and either force change by not paying your money or just wait for things to change.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on August 05, 2017, 08:36:28 PM
It wont though. It should but it wont. What people should do instead or alongside their moaning is refuse to go to games and refuse to buy merchandise. That way a clear message is sent to Lai and the board. Ive seen it to much over the years when people moan to their hearts content but in the same breath talk about how they have brought this years kit and have a season ticket they are waiting on. I love this club no different to anyone else i can gurantee you of that but i now pick and choose my matches as opposed to putting so much money down on a season ticket. Infact these days i would much rather watch the game in a pub. The premier league sadly brings alot of people to the games these days who arent there to watch the Albion and it kills the atmosphere. I remember the days when the Smethwick used to absolutley bounce. Its nowhere near as good these days. Im a firm believer in voting with your wallet if you dont like how things are done then dont go and either force change by not paying your money or just wait for things to change.

Totally agree, I used to go home and away, over 20 odd years season ticket holder including the grim 90s, I stopped renewing after the home kit/ Irvine joke. Last season went 1 away about 6 home ..... looking at the farce of this years transfer activity it may be less this year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on August 06, 2017, 01:58:58 AM
Totally agree, I used to go home and away, over 20 odd years season ticket holder including the grim 90s, I stopped renewing after the home kit/ Irvine joke. Last season went 1 away about 6 home ..... looking at the farce of this years transfer activity it may be less this year.

I just think football is getting out of hand with costs etc and with the way people moan about the club then choose to keep investing into it i think people need to stop moaning and start voting with their wallets.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jimmy on August 06, 2017, 02:25:06 PM
Its clear the club was sold to secure a healthy profit for Jeremy.

The idea that the club will move forward under Lai is looking increasingly unlikely.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 06, 2017, 02:40:29 PM
Its clear the club was sold to secure a healthy profit for Jeremy.

The idea that the club will move forward under Lai is looking increasingly unlikely.

If £40-£50m is available then we can't blame Lai.

It's those in charge of transfers and Pulis that should be blamed at present.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on August 06, 2017, 11:22:26 PM
If £40-£50m is available then we can't blame Lai.

It's those in charge of transfers and Pulis that should be blamed at present.

Sorry but that amount is no where near enough for the amount of good players we need now.

That amount is good for an average summer of topping up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 06, 2017, 11:40:56 PM
If he wants a decent return on his money, he needs to invest in the future by getting the players in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on August 06, 2017, 11:51:02 PM
Peace used us to get rich or should I say richer without investing any of his own money and it looks like lai is going to do the same using the premiership label
While the fans suffer another year being served up utter dross on the pitch
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on August 07, 2017, 05:46:56 PM
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on August 07, 2017, 06:29:02 PM
    At risk of defending the club and those that work there:

    • I'm prepared to believe that Pulis, Williams, Garlick, Hammond etc know more about football than me and most people on here.  Some might say they are clueless but in all honesty, they're probably not.  They live football all day every day and are surrounded by football people and have an insight behind the scenes into how a club is actually run, how deals are actually done, how agents actually work etc rather than just our assumptions or what we read in the press.
    I believe that they've actually got more at stake than me.  If Albion fail in some way, I'll be sad. They can lose their reputations, jobs or even careers.  Some people then find it really hard getting back into football once they are out (as Sir Gary has shown...) Therefore Albion's success probably matters more to them than to us in some ways even if they aren't fans
    • They know all of the things we know. They know it would be better to get players in at the start of pre-season training rather than after the season starts. They know that we've a thin and aging squad etc.  I can't believe that the things we all debate on here haven't been discussed for months and months in the club.

      I'm left with the conclusion that it is mostly external forces rather than the club itself that is to blame.  If TP is our manager and honestly believes that we should wait for Gibson or Smalling and the club has quickly and efficiently tried its very best to get those players with a commercial offer and been told "No, we won't sell them until later in the window when we've got replacements lined up", the best thing to do is probably wait.   As frustrating as it is to all of us, I'd actually rather keep our powder dry rather than go a buy the 7th choice who is available but injury prone/ poor attitude /inconsistent/ doesn't fit with our style of play.   


Good post sir
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 07, 2017, 06:56:34 PM
    At risk of defending the club and those that work there:

    • I'm prepared to believe that Pulis, Williams, Garlick, Hammond etc know more about football than me and most people on here.  Some might say they are clueless but in all honesty, they're probably not.  They live football all day every day and are surrounded by football people and have an insight behind the scenes into how a club is actually run, how deals are actually done, how agents actually work etc rather than just our assumptions or what we read in the press.
    I believe that they've actually got more at stake than me.  If Albion fail in some way, I'll be sad. They can lose their reputations, jobs or even careers.  Some people then find it really hard getting back into football once they are out (as Sir Gary has shown...) Therefore Albion's success probably matters more to them than to us in some ways even if they aren't fans
    • They know all of the things we know. They know it would be better to get players in at the start of pre-season training rather than after the season starts. They know that we've a thin and aging squad etc.  I can't believe that the things we all debate on here haven't been discussed for months and months in the club.

      I'm left with the conclusion that it is mostly external forces rather than the club itself that is to blame.  If TP is our manager and honestly believes that we should wait for Gibson or Smalling and the club has quickly and efficiently tried its very best to get those players with a commercial offer and been told "No, we won't sell them until later in the window when we've got replacements lined up", the best thing to do is probably wait.   As frustrating as it is to all of us, I'd actually rather keep our powder dry rather than go a buy the 7th choice who is available but injury prone/ poor attitude /inconsistent/ doesn't fit with our style of play.   

Nice one Stoxman, very sensible stance
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 07, 2017, 07:29:16 PM
  • At risk of defending the club and those that work there:

    • I'm prepared to believe that Pulis, Williams, Garlick, Hammond etc know more about football than me and most people on here.  Some might say they are clueless but in all honesty, they're probably not.  They live football all day every day and are surrounded by football people and have an insight behind the scenes into how a club is actually run, how deals are actually done, how agents actually work etc rather than just our assumptions or what we read in the press.
    I believe that they've actually got more at stake than me.  If Albion fail in some way, I'll be sad. They can lose their reputations, jobs or even careers.  Some people then find it really hard getting back into football once they are out (as Sir Gary has shown...) Therefore Albion's success probably matters more to them than to us in some ways even if they aren't fans
    • They know all of the things we know. They know it would be better to get players in at the start of pre-season training rather than after the season starts. They know that we've a thin and aging squad etc.  I can't believe that the things we all debate on here haven't been discussed for months and months in the club.

      I'm left with the conclusion that it is mostly external forces rather than the club itself that is to blame.  If TP is our manager and honestly believes that we should wait for Gibson or Smalling and the club has quickly and efficiently tried its very best to get those players with a commercial offer and been told "No, we won't sell them until later in the window when we've got replacements lined up", the best thing to do is probably wait.   As frustrating as it is to all of us, I'd actually rather keep our powder dry rather than go a buy the 7th choice who is available but injury prone/ poor attitude /inconsistent/ doesn't fit with our style of play.   


Come on mate, you don't honestly believe all that b0ll0cks do you?


The powers that be want to run this club into the ground ruining our reputation in the process and getting us relegated on the cheap. Get with the program mate...  :-\


 ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 07, 2017, 07:32:27 PM
    At risk of defending the club and those that work there:

    • I'm prepared to believe that Pulis, Williams, Garlick, Hammond etc know more about football than me and most people on here.  Some might say they are clueless but in all honesty, they're probably not.  They live football all day every day and are surrounded by football people and have an insight behind the scenes into how a club is actually run, how deals are actually done, how agents actually work etc rather than just our assumptions or what we read in the press.
    I believe that they've actually got more at stake than me.  If Albion fail in some way, I'll be sad. They can lose their reputations, jobs or even careers.  Some people then find it really hard getting back into football once they are out (as Sir Gary has shown...) Therefore Albion's success probably matters more to them than to us in some ways even if they aren't fans
    • They know all of the things we know. They know it would be better to get players in at the start of pre-season training rather than after the season starts. They know that we've a thin and aging squad etc.  I can't believe that the things we all debate on here haven't been discussed for months and months in the club.

      I'm left with the conclusion that it is mostly external forces rather than the club itself that is to blame.  If TP is our manager and honestly believes that we should wait for Gibson or Smalling and the club has quickly and efficiently tried its very best to get those players with a commercial offer and been told "No, we won't sell them until later in the window when we've got replacements lined up", the best thing to do is probably wait.   As frustrating as it is to all of us, I'd actually rather keep our powder dry rather than go a buy the 7th choice who is available but injury prone/ poor attitude /inconsistent/ doesn't fit with our style of play.   



Think it's a bit more complex than that.

By "they" I mean everybody at the football club responsible for acquiring & releasing players.

They clearly have a finite amount of funds, &, as others have said, are supposed to abide by FFP rules.

TP has the final say on players, so it's his criteria that defines both who & what type of player we get.
It's not difficult to see that TP adopts a low risk strategy in almost everything he does, so it follows that he will take the same strategy in player selection.

Add a low risk player selection strategy to limited funds, & they're into a last minute brinkmanship game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 09, 2017, 04:25:51 PM

Think it's a bit more complex than that.

By "they" I mean everybody at the football club responsible for acquiring & releasing players.

They clearly have a finite amount of funds, &, as others have said, are supposed to abide by FFP rules.

TP has the final say on players, so it's his criteria that defines both who & what type of player we get.
It's not difficult to see that TP adopts a low risk strategy in almost everything he does, so it follows that he will take the same strategy in player selection.


Add a low risk player selection strategy to limited funds, & they're into a last minute brinkmanship game.

I agree with baggieJohn on this one and i would also add that,

Because our management team are heavily invested in football for their livelihood is no different to the other 19 clubs in the premier league,
To be better we have to do different things not emulate what others do.

It seems to me that our mngt team are adopting old tried and tested methods and when it fails there is much wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth which results in bemoaning the system and our place within the system

We were looked at as different & progressive, now we are seen as the total antipathy of this, the management need to get their heads from up their arses and try something different,
kids / foreigners / loan to buys / untried players from lower divisions, anything, just take a few chances FFS you never know 1 or 2 may come off !

And NO Gareth Barry is the way forward !

I will acknowledge Hegazhy is a punt (with an P) and I applaud the club trying this. Kudos for that ONE, stress ONE
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on August 09, 2017, 07:52:58 PM
    At risk of defending the club and those that work there:

    • I'm prepared to believe that Pulis, Williams, Garlick, Hammond etc know more about football than me and most people on here.  Some might say they are clueless but in all honesty, they're probably not.  They live football all day every day and are surrounded by football people and have an insight behind the scenes into how a club is actually run, how deals are actually done, how agents actually work etc rather than just our assumptions or what we read in the press.
    I believe that they've actually got more at stake than me.  If Albion fail in some way, I'll be sad. They can lose their reputations, jobs or even careers.  Some people then find it really hard getting back into football once they are out (as Sir Gary has shown...) Therefore Albion's success probably matters more to them than to us in some ways even if they aren't fans
    • They know all of the things we know. They know it would be better to get players in at the start of pre-season training rather than after the season starts. They know that we've a thin and aging squad etc.  I can't believe that the things we all debate on here haven't been discussed for months and months in the club.

      I'm left with the conclusion that it is mostly external forces rather than the club itself that is to blame.  If TP is our manager and honestly believes that we should wait for Gibson or Smalling and the club has quickly and efficiently tried its very best to get those players with a commercial offer and been told "No, we won't sell them until later in the window when we've got replacements lined up", the best thing to do is probably wait.   As frustrating as it is to all of us, I'd actually rather keep our powder dry rather than go a buy the 7th choice who is available but injury prone/ poor attitude /inconsistent/ doesn't fit with our style of play.   


Just to add to this, Pulis' style and signings have worked for him everywhere he's been, and his remit from the owners is clearly to keep us in the league, as it was at Stoke before us.

It obviously works for him, why would he risk signing unknowns and left-field players when the tried and tested do the job for Pulis and the board? Just looking at it all from another angle.

I know it's boring football with a lot of non-exciting players, but there's a lot of money involved and at risk for the club, Pulis and the owners, maybe they don't want to risk it all when it's worked for the past x seasons. As people have said on here, Pulis needs the cash, the owners want to see some return on their investment, and the club want to stay in the top league.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on August 25, 2017, 12:03:11 PM
Another 15m spent.

Now 40m he's spent since he said been here

Lai out.  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 25, 2017, 12:08:19 PM
Another 15m spent.

Now 40m he's spent since he said been here

Lai out.  :D

And no sign of the drawbridge being pulled up just yet......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 25, 2017, 12:10:58 PM
no doubt come sept he would have recouped a pocket full too
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PsalmXXIII on August 30, 2017, 01:27:10 PM
This thread explodes with comments when we are quiet, I'll be the first to say well done to him and the club now they're making moves in the transfer window!

Thanks Mr Lai! And not a cryptic emoji tweet like the pratt down the road in sight
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on August 30, 2017, 01:30:25 PM
It seems like Mr Ali has finally found his wallet,good times ahead for us hopefully
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 30, 2017, 01:32:14 PM
It seems like Mr Ali has finally found his wallet,good times ahead for us hopefully

Shame he didn't find us a few more wickets to win us the test match yesterday  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 30, 2017, 01:32:40 PM
Lets wait and see come 11 pm tomorrow night, the outgoings could put a dampner on current high spirits
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mank baggie on August 30, 2017, 01:37:14 PM
Lai well trouser it all of it there will be none left :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ashdoy on August 30, 2017, 02:34:29 PM
Lets wait and see come 11 pm tomorrow night, the outgoings could put a dampner on current high spirits

If we get the Pole in, but then sold Chadli and Evans, how would we rate our summer?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 30, 2017, 02:36:38 PM
If we get the Pole in, but then sold Chadli and Evans, how would we rate our summer?

A loanee,  versus 2 contracted players, = short term good, long term not so good !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 30, 2017, 02:41:30 PM
A net financial gain at the end of the window, as well as the loss of our two most talented players from last season would be a bitter end to what could quite easily be a very good window.

Would worry me about the owners intentions longer term too.

It will be interesting to see how we all feel on Friday!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on August 30, 2017, 03:05:58 PM
If we get the Pole in, but then sold Chadli and Evans, how would we rate our summer?

id imagine if we sold them we would be replaced. ITs how pulls works.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wardy65 on August 30, 2017, 06:30:29 PM
If we get the Pole in, but then sold Chadli and Evans, how would we rate our summer?
Personally, I'd still say it's been a good summer & I'm Johnny Evans biggest fan.
Pulis is very big on respecting & in return, being respected, by his top players. He gets the best out of them & listens to their opinions. So providing they give him & our club the respect it deserves, he won't physically stand in their way if a top 6 team comes in for them.
I do expect to lose Johnny to Man City, but I'd be very disappointed if we got less than 30million for him. As for Chadli, I think he's a very good player but seems to lack the passion & desire of say, a McLean for example, & that's why he isn't a starter for us anymore. I think TP would welcome an offer tomorrow tbh.
Overall though, i'd still say it's been a good window as I'm delighted with Jay Rod, Hegazi, Barry, Burke & Gibbs, as they're all players to move us forward!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on August 30, 2017, 06:54:48 PM
Certainly making a statement with the signings today
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on August 30, 2017, 06:56:20 PM
If we get the Pole in, but then sold Chadli and Evans, how would we rate our summer?

I think the club want to sell Chadli, so no loss.
I would back Burke in to have as much impact as Chadli did last season (over the course of the season) anyway.
If Evans go, we will get a replacement.

I think we will leave this transfer period for the first time in years very happy
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Canmore Baggie on August 30, 2017, 06:58:06 PM
Certainly making a statement with the signings today

Puts us on the map for the future - IMO if Krychowiak has a successful loan spell here it opens up potential for bigger and better players to sign in the future. Would definitely prefer a permanent deal, but this is probably the most logical step up for us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on September 01, 2017, 01:12:17 PM
Fantastic first summer window

Chinese jp they said   ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on September 01, 2017, 01:16:37 PM
Puts us on the map for the future - IMO if Krychowiak has a successful loan spell here it opens up potential for bigger and better players to sign in the future. Would definitely prefer a permanent deal, but this is probably the most logical step up for us

Krychowiak and his adviser are no mugs.
He's come here with a big reputation and knows he will get game time.
He's putting himself in the shop window for a bigger move next season.
So long as he helps us move up a level glad to have him along.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 01, 2017, 01:41:17 PM
Great window Mr Lai Albion in contention for top half finish record points and cup run :D ;D :P :-* :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: saml30 on September 01, 2017, 02:23:44 PM
Well done the whole board 👏👏👏
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on September 01, 2017, 06:16:37 PM
I think a few people on here and twitter need to say fair play to Hammond, Lai & Garlick for getting the lads in that the manager wanted.

I dare say Pulis would have had more if allowed, but by my rough figures we're spent about £55m on fees, loan fees and wage allocation to loan players (so not including wages and signing on fees for our permanent lads).

There was alot of "Lai is asset striping the club" and "Hammond and Garlick are a waste of time" going on and i'm chuffed to see the club show the fans that we're here to try our best and stay a top 10 club.

If anything i'm surprised we didn't sell at least Chadli, if only to help the wage situation out. We must be at our utter maximum for wages now?

Well done to all at the club!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on September 15, 2017, 06:45:53 PM
Apparently rejected an offer for us from a us buyer. That's massive news, for it to even get to that stage makes me think he may sell! :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on September 15, 2017, 07:07:21 PM
Apparently rejected an offer for us from a us buyer. That's massive news, for it to even get to that stage makes me think he may sell! :o
according to bloomberg, the approach was to another member of the investment group Yunyi Goukai (which Lai leads) and when he found out rejected the approach out of hand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 15, 2017, 08:16:00 PM
Link to the sale story

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-bromwich-albion-owners-reject-13626833

Not sure what to make of it without knowing the identity of the interested party. It might just be an opportunistic bid looking to exploit the possible need of the Chinese to sell given the change in view from the Chinese authorities. I would also guess that there are a number of potential investors sniffing around Premier League clubs looking for a a quick upturn in asset values ahead of the next round of media rights deal .

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/aug/11/premier-league-broadcast-battle-hots-up-as-sky-face-doling-out-extra-600m

It should be noted the article is just talking about the UK & Ireland deal before the overseas deals are factored in which will be another sizable hike in the League's revenue. The river of money flowing through the game is growing wider and deeper. Even last year's bonkers valuation at which you wouldn't have thought Lai could sell up at a profit might soon be seen as a bargain.


 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 15, 2017, 08:36:30 PM
Link to the sale story

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-bromwich-albion-owners-reject-13626833

Not sure what to make of it without knowing the identity of the interested party. It might just be an opportunistic bid looking to exploit the possible need of the Chinese to sell given the change in view from the Chinese authorities. I would also guess that there are a number of potential investors sniffing around Premier League clubs looking for a a quick upturn in asset values ahead of the next round of media rights deal which must be due to be announced sometime in the next 12 months.
I imagine that the devaluation of the pound would have made the club more attractive too
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 16, 2017, 01:45:04 AM
Going by media negotiations started in the summer but stalled, looks like Chinese want out and value club at over £260 million
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: orville on September 16, 2017, 03:57:14 AM
Daily mail now too

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4889652/West-Brom-sale-talks-end-stalemate-approach.html
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 16, 2017, 09:27:34 AM
Going by media negotiations started in the summer but stalled, looks like Chinese want out and value club at over £260 million

Not sure where you got that from. The number isn't completely outrageous given that the reported numbers (which haven't been confirmed) from last years purchase valued the club at £200m and provided we stay in the Premier League the clubs' revenue will be going up by about 20% the season after next.

In general I wouldn't be happy with another change of ownership for the simple reason the more frequently you spin the ownership roulette wheel the more chance we get a bad one. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 16, 2017, 12:40:46 PM
If we entered discussions about a sale then i would assume Lai wants out, but for the right price.
Something not right behind the scenes, and probably all to do with the Chinese governments stance on spending on over seas clubs.
I would be dubious about the Yanks, they haven't a good track record of club ownership, and their knowledge of football is almost as bad as your average Wolves fan.
Lets sign a couple more Egyptians and see if we can kindle a bit of interest from the middle east. :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 16, 2017, 12:47:11 PM
Not sure where you got that from. The number isn't completely outrageous given that the reported numbers (which haven't been confirmed) from last years purchase valued the club at £200m and provided we stay in the Premier League the clubs' revenue will be going up by about 20% the season after next.

In general I wouldn't be happy with another change of ownership for the simple reason the more frequently you spin the ownership roulette wheel the more chance we get a bad one.
a number of media outlets quoted valuation the Chinese owners have, also state government  of China want to rein in monies leaving country for entertainment investment. Club could still be run for the foreseeable future by Lai but with no external investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 16, 2017, 01:14:20 PM
a number of media outlets quoted valuation the Chinese owners have, also state government  of China want to rein in monies leaving country for entertainment investment. Club could still be run for the foreseeable future by Lai but with no external investment.

 In that case i couldn't see how Peace has, " moved us on. "  He took ages with his due diligence, it was probably all about getting the top dollar.
We haven't got a rich investor, in fact we haven't got an investor at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: blue on September 16, 2017, 01:17:27 PM
We are we are now without external investment plus ffp limits us to what we spend more than what we generate ourselves.
Mr lai is trying to generate more money by thinking outside the box with ECO towns and buying Chinese's players that could be sold at big profit.
If he has turned down 260 million buyout that means we are still a very good investment for a wealthy consortium.
Mr Lai doing a great job as majority shareholder in my opinion for little old Albion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 16, 2017, 01:32:08 PM
I don't see how he is doing a great job, he bought a club and got the fans  a few beers and scarves, but we only spent what we generated.
Like Jeremy he will sit back and watch the club make him money, and when the time is right he will sell us for a profit without having spent any of his own money. Deja Vu.
What we are worth is down to how successful we are. If we have a good season he will sit and watch his stock grow, if we have a bad one he will probably sound out buyers.
A win win situation for him.
Unfortunately for us we are no better off than when we had the last incubent.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 17, 2017, 08:04:18 AM
I don't see how he is doing a great job, he bought a club and got the fans  a few beers and scarves, but we only spent what we generated.
Like Jeremy he will sit back and watch the club make him money, and when the time is right he will sell us for a profit without having spent any of his own money. Deja Vu.
What we are worth is down to how successful we are. If we have a good season he will sit and watch his stock grow, if we have a bad one he will probably sound out buyers.
A win win situation for him.
Unfortunately for us we are no better off than when we had the last incubent.

I will have to wait to confirm this but there are few if any owners are actively putting money into Premier League clubs, even the latest round of transfer madness was probably self financed. I don't understand why fans persist in the view that owners should throw vast amounts of their own money at clubs particularly to subsidise player recruitment which is the only thing that most are remotely interested in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 17, 2017, 11:56:02 AM
Don't get me wrong, i don't believe throwing money, particulary someone elses money, is always the answer, it can lead to debt that is called on sooner or later.
My point is, that Peace said he couldn't push us on to the next level without investment. So he sought out  buyer.
We waited a year while he found one, and even then he took so long with his due diligence that we missed the transfer window.
Now we find our new owner can't invest, though probably through no fault of his own, and so we are back to square one, a premier league club lacking investment.
Mr Lai say's he doesn't want to sell but stay and develop us. But how is he going to do that if his government won't allow the movement of money overseas?
I think we have all been duped, it was never about developing football clubs over here, but developing the game over there, at our expense.
It's a bit of a coincidence that the Chinese government decided to put the blocks on once a number of English clubs had been bought.
We are told that no money can come out from China, but does that work both ways, and are we merely the cow thats being milked by the Chinese?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Wigmore on September 17, 2017, 12:06:01 PM
I don't see how he is doing a great job, he bought a club and got the fans  a few beers and scarves, but we only spent what we generated.

Yeah. If only we could have got somebody like the Venky clan, to take us to the next level...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on September 17, 2017, 12:21:55 PM
Don't get me wrong, i don't believe throwing money, particulary someone elses money, is always the answer, it can lead to debt that is called on sooner or later.
My point is, that Peace said he couldn't push us on to the next level without investment. So he sought out  buyer.
We waited a year while he found one, and even then he took so long with his due diligence that we missed the transfer window.
Now we find our new owner can't invest, though probably through no fault of his own, and so we are back to square one, a premier league club lacking investment.
Mr Lai say's he doesn't want to sell but stay and develop us. But how is he going to do that if his government won't allow the movement of money overseas?
I think we have all been duped, it was never about developing football clubs over here, but developing the game over there, at our expense.
It's a bit of a coincidence that the Chinese government decided to put the blocks on once a number of English clubs had been bought.
We are told that no money can come out from China, but does that work both ways, and are we merely the cow thats being milked by the Chinese?
you're talking about a government that banned Winnie the Pooh because people compared him to the President... who knows why they do what they do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 17, 2017, 02:34:52 PM
Don't get me wrong, i don't believe throwing money, particulary someone elses money, is always the answer, it can lead to debt that is called on sooner or later.
My point is, that Peace said he couldn't push us on to the next level without investment. So he sought out  buyer.
We waited a year while he found one, and even then he took so long with his due diligence that we missed the transfer window.
Now we find our new owner can't invest, though probably through no fault of his own, and so we are back to square one, a premier league club lacking investment.
Mr Lai say's he doesn't want to sell but stay and develop us. But how is he going to do that if his government won't allow the movement of money overseas?
I think we have all been duped, it was never about developing football clubs over here, but developing the game over there, at our expense.
It's a bit of a coincidence that the Chinese government decided to put the blocks on once a number of English clubs had been bought.
We are told that no money can come out from China, but does that work both ways, and are we merely the cow thats being milked by the Chinese?
Really
Well I think you should just buy the club then, although if you won the lottery you would probably moan about the winnings being in cheque form and ask for your £2 back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 18, 2017, 06:22:28 AM
I'm not a billionaire, but if i were and i paid £180m for something, then i would certainly want to invest in it....unless there was another reason for buying it.
I wish i had the ability to see good in all people like some of you.
At the moment we are a rudderless ship with an absent owner, a demoralised crew and a blinkered captain running it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Wigmore on September 18, 2017, 06:06:23 PM
I'm not a billionaire, but if i were and i paid £180m for something, then i would certainly want to invest in it....unless there was another reason for buying it.
I wish i had the ability to see good in all people like some of you.
At the moment we are a rudderless ship with an absent owner, a demoralised crew and a blinkered captain running it.
Yet again the negativity found on this board astounds me.
Rudderless ship?..... Is this a sensible comment given the relative success of the last transfer window, the positive, planned deployment of our loanees, the ongoing development of the academy and the stability the club compared to many others?
Absent owner? ....I don't know how you define 'absent', but ten EPL teams meet mine, and not all have been detrimental to the clubs' development. Would you rather have the close attention of an Ashley or the Dildo Twins?
Demoralised?..... Any chance of evidence to support the use of such a contentious statement?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on November 08, 2017, 09:52:49 PM
Reports suggest that Mr Lai is coming over for the Chelsea game. I would imagine that this visit was always going to happen and hasn't been specially arranged to run the rule over Pulis. Mr Lai only seems to appear when we play one of the biggest clubs, which I find a bit naff to be honest, not least because he'll never get a true perspective on our performances that way. All he'll see is a plucky underdog display against opposition that have been built up pre-match to try to make everyone think it's an honour just to be on the same pitch as these teams. Mr Lai is perpetuatiing that by only attending those games.

What he ought to do is take in a few away games, like Brighton and Huddersfield, as he might then get a better idea of what the fuss over Pulis is all about then. Just turning up for the games against big clubs will give him a false impression. We can but hope that he's being well advised on the bigger picture regarding our performances and tactics.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on November 09, 2017, 12:31:02 AM
Yet again the negativity found on this board astounds me.
Rudderless ship?..... Is this a sensible comment given the relative success of the last transfer window, the positive, planned deployment of our loanees, the ongoing development of the academy and the stability the club compared to many others?[/b]
Absent owner? ....I don't know how you define 'absent', but ten EPL teams meet mine, and not all have been detrimental to the clubs' development. Would you rather have the close attention of an Ashley or the Dildo Twins?
Demoralised?..... Any chance of evidence to support the use of such a contentious statement?

How does this sound six weeks on?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on November 09, 2017, 06:29:05 AM
If people stay away he will want to know why the stadium isn't full for such a big game.
If your local restaurant sells rubbish food, you don't keep eating there and then complain about the food.
You guys are good at organising, things as you proved with the Tesco bags, even if it's staying outside the ground and then entering after 10 mins.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on November 09, 2017, 06:35:12 AM
If people stay away he will want to know why the stadium isn't full for such a big game.
If your local restaurant sells rubbish food, you don't keep eating there and then complain about the food.
You guys are good at organising, things as you proved with the Tesco bags, even if it's staying outside the ground and then entering after 10 mins.

The difference between our football club and a restaurant is that if the restaurant looses its customers then it closes. If a football club looses patrons nothing happens because the Premier League is awash with money so the clubs couldn't give a toss about the fans.
Please don't organise the 'entering of the ground 10 minutes after kick off fiasco' that's so Villaesque and besides loads of late arrivals will only spoil what little enjoyment the rest of the fans have if they're up and down in their seats to let the late arrivals get to their seat.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on November 09, 2017, 06:08:20 PM
If you really want to get something over then sacrifices have to be made.
The people of this country can talk a good fight but thats about it.
Who's enjoyment are they going to spoil though, the Chelsea fans.
 Isn't the anti Pulis thing about enjoyment, or lack of it.

If no one wants to put themselves out stop bitching and keep going and moaning.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on November 09, 2017, 07:20:59 PM
I as much as anyone wants shot of Pulis. That said I still instinctively want to get behind the team and I simply can't bring myself to want to us to do badly. I won't get behind any half arsed protests the likes of which I have mocked at the Seal Sanctuary.

If we are take a beating on Saturday I am sure that the fans will let their displeasure be known it will be spontaneous and heartfelt. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wimbledon baggie on November 09, 2017, 08:31:47 PM
I as much as anyone wants shot of Pulis. That said I still instinctively want to get behind the team and I simply can't bring myself to want to us to do badly. I won't get behind any half arsed protests the likes of which I have mocked at the Seal Sanctuary.

If we are take a beating on Saturday I am sure that the fans will let their displeasure be known it will be spontaneous and heartfelt.

But you can do both. You can arrive early/stay behind and protest all things TP but cheer the lads on during the game. If you are the singing type you can be singing Pulis Out! and immediately be singing 'We love you Albion...we do' and the Lords my Shepherd.

I went to Lisbon recently for a w/e and we got tickets for Sporting Lisbon v Porto. The match was a rubbish 0-0 but WHAT an atmosphere!! It was bonkers. Really intense passion all round the ground. Super friendly fans but it made me realise what we were missing. Left the ground a bit sad if I'm honest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on December 23, 2017, 05:56:41 PM
Parachute money will go some way to covering his purchase me thinks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on December 23, 2017, 06:00:15 PM
Parachute money will go some way to covering his purchase me thinks

We'll still be constrained by FFP though and will likely have even less revenue to play with if we go down. Unless we've got relegation clauses in the bulk of our players' contracts that reduces their wages upon relegation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on December 23, 2017, 06:26:32 PM
Seeing nothing from him at all no leadership like a rabbit stuck in the glare of premier league floodlights .

Got a bad feeling about this lot .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on December 23, 2017, 06:26:54 PM
I'd want to know why the wage bill is around £80m.who s earning all this money?have we got 10 players earning £50k +pw or more? Even if we have that's only around £28m so where s the other £52m going.surely we ain't paying the likes of HRK, McClean, Nyom those sort of wages.
We know Greg's costing around £100k a week.

If I had to guess our top ten earners i would go with.
Evans.    £70k
Foster.    £60k
Rondon.  £50k
Brunt.     Â£50k
Morrison  £50k
Gibbs.      £60k
Barry.      £50k
Chadli.     Â£60k
Phillips.    £50k
Jacob.      £50k
Livermore £50k
Could only think Rodriguez and Dawson are the only other players getting
Anywhere near £50k
I use the term earning lightly.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on December 23, 2017, 07:30:37 PM
I'd want to know why the wage bill is around £80m.who s earning all this money?have we got 10 players earning £50k +pw or more? Even if we have that's only around £28m so where s the other £52m going.surely we ain't paying the likes of HRK, McClean, Nyom those sort of wages.
We know Greg's costing around £100k a week.

If I had to guess our top ten earners i would go with.
Evans.    £70k
Foster.    £60k
Rondon.  £50k
Brunt.     Â£50k
Morrison  £50k
Gibbs.      £60k
Barry.      £50k
Chadli.     Â£60k
Phillips.    £50k
Jacob.      £50k
Livermore £50k
Could only think Rodriguez and Dawson are the only other players getting
Anywhere near £50k
I use the term earning lightly.

It's been close to 75-80% for the past 4 or 5 seasons. It's the going rate for Premier League players unfortunately. I'm sure I posted all the financial figures including wage percentages somewhere before, but they're all available online. A quick look for example, last reported turnover was £98.3m, staff costs were £73.7m, making it 75%.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 24, 2017, 04:55:20 AM
Who is this bloke?

I saw something in the paper about only financing two low cost players in January. If that's the best we can hope for then we're screwed. This side isn't good enough and if he took more of an interest he might realise that !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 24, 2017, 06:18:29 AM
Who is this bloke?

I saw something in the paper about only financing two low cost players in January. If that's the best we can hope for then we're screwed. This side isn't good enough and if he took more of an interest he might realise that !
It could only happen here couldn't it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on December 24, 2017, 07:57:47 AM
Who is this bloke?

I saw something in the paper about only financing two low cost players in January. If that's the best we can hope for then we're screwed. This side isn't good enough and if he took more of an interest he might realise that !
While I'm not defending Lai its Williams who is employed to run the club , he let Pulis play fantasy football sigmings. £108, 000 a week on Greg for starters , a 36 year old Barry , J Rod who looks awful and £15 million on a raw kid in Burke.
Add the other signings and actually I for one can't really call Lai on investment , granted some was self generated but he's not been tight overall . That said he needs to put a bit more in!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 24, 2017, 08:40:15 AM
I had such high hopes and now they Lai in tatters.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on December 24, 2017, 09:36:07 AM
When he arrived at the club Lai appointed Williams as Chairman and this was generally seen as a good thing given that Williams is very much the traditional "football man" and this dovetailed neatly with the equally traditional "football man" in charge at the time Tony Pulis.

Nick Hammond was a Peace appointment which predated the takeover and might be seen as the wild card here but revealed himself to be in the old school camp when the 1st management appointment was Alan Pardew someone he knew from his time at Reading and fitted the criteria of "Premier League" experience. Williams is the senior party here so Hammond might have just been following orders but the lack of imagination is revealing.

Now we are in a bit of a mess because of the traditional footballing men's ability to do what they do best spend football clubs money badly. Focus on player characteristics such as being good about the place hard working and leadership etc. while overlooking their technical limitations and the basics of team building. Their answer is spend more money which is true to a point but the mountains of money that they can run through without a discernibly better outcome are beyond most owners means. If in doubt look at the money that has gone through Aston Villa and Sunderland in the last decade as a point of reference.

We don't know Lai's thoughts but he cannot be happy with the current position. He has a massive personal investment at stake so at some point he will act. However I have no idea how he will respond. The ownership group have backed Williams and on the face of it that worked well last year and they are no doubt learning about the mechanics of the football business but whether they have the know how to implement a radical change of direction remains to be seen. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on December 24, 2017, 09:36:19 AM
Well said Dexy, agree with all that.

Its too easy to say typical Albion, lack of ambition, etc. The owners backed Pulis massively in the summer, a lot of posters (myself included) said this was the best squad we have had for 30 years.

Five months down the line it would appear that wasnt the case, looking at it now we have signed good players but not what we needed and who dont fit into how the team played, at that point you have to blame the manager, as far as i know he signed them all.

I think the FFP is largely to blame for us been limited in January isnt it? Get Greg off the wage bill if we can, that frees up £100k, soon as Chadli is fit, wrap him in cotton wool, let it be known in the press that he is fit and we will sell, accept the bid, drive him to the medical ourselves so he dont pull a muscle when driving and sell him, give Pardew the transfer fee and his wages too.

The thing you could blame the board for is giving Pulis a new contract which again in hindsight was a stupid thing to do but they had backed him well.

Can see the logic and why they appointed Pardew as well, its halfway through the season, your asking somebody to come in and try and advance a group of players that has had the footballing life sucked out of it, as we are already seeing its going to take time and so had we got somebody who was the exact opposite of it Pulis it could of madness, Pardew is somewhere inbetween.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on December 24, 2017, 09:44:08 AM
I had such high hopes and now they Lai in tatters.

He is an investor and made it clear from the start that rudderless leadership would remain. I don’t know why anyone is surprised.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on December 24, 2017, 10:06:09 AM
Who is this bloke?

I saw something in the paper about only financing two low cost players in January. If that's the best we can hope for then we're screwed. This side isn't good enough and if he took more of an interest he might realise that !

Given he only seems to come when we play one of the top six I would say his main criteria is to network the high profile people . We are merely a vehicle to make him some cash whichevet way it comes .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on December 24, 2017, 10:12:44 AM
The fact that he only turns up for big games is a disgrace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on December 24, 2017, 10:32:47 AM
You have to hope he isn't sitting back and watching his not inconsiderable investment in WBA football club circling the drain?

We as a club are notorious for not going public until deals are done and dusted and I hope the plan for getting us out of the pooh is being quietly actioned in the background

Look at me the eternal Christmas optimist  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 24, 2017, 11:12:03 AM
He is an investor and made it clear from the start that rudderless leadership would remain. I don’t know why anyone is surprised.
I'm not surprised, but just had high hopes
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: weareblueweare white on December 24, 2017, 11:21:12 AM
While I'm not defending Lai its Williams who is employed to run the club , he let Pulis play fantasy football sigmings. £108, 000 a week on Greg for starters , a 36 year old Barry , J Rod who looks awful and £15 million on a raw kid in Burke.
Add the other signings and actually I for one can't really call Lai on investment , granted some was self generated but he's not been tight overall . That said he needs to put a bit more in!
He’d have spent £23M on Ben Gibson if Boro accepted it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 24, 2017, 11:59:21 AM
I really don't understand why us not defending properly or Pardew picking clearly out of for players suddenly becomes the owners fault
If he were interefering in selection we would all be going mad ?

Players and manager have to take responsibility for the poor results, Lai put the money down , Greg ain't cheap, Gibbs and the others all cost real money, if anybody else thinks that they can show more "intent" then buy him out..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 24, 2017, 12:12:07 PM
When he arrived at the club Lai appointed Williams as Chairman and this was generally seen as a good thing given that Williams is very much the traditional "football man" and this dovetailed neatly with the equally traditional "football man" in charge at the time Tony Pulis.

Nick Hammond was a Peace appointment which predated the takeover and might be seen as the wild card here but revealed himself to be in the old school camp when the 1st management appointment was Alan Pardew someone he knew from his time at Reading and fitted the criteria of "Premier League" experience. Williams is the senior party here so Hammond might have just been following orders but the lack of imagination is revealing.

Now we are in a bit of a mess because of the traditional footballing men's ability to do what they do best spend football clubs money badly. Focus on player characteristics such as being good about the place hard working and leadership etc. while overlooking their technical limitations and the basics of team building. Their answer is spend more money which is true to a point but the mountains of money that they can run through without a discernibly better outcome are beyond most owners means. If in doubt look at the money that has gone through Aston Villa and Sunderland in the last decade as a point of reference.

We don't know Lai's thoughts but he cannot be happy with the current position. He has a massive personal investment at stake so at some point he will act. However I have no idea how he will respond. The ownership group have backed Williams and on the face of it that worked well last year and they are no doubt learning about the mechanics of the football business but whether they have the know how to implement a radical change of direction remains to be seen.


As far as Lai is concerned, he's broken one of the primary rules of business, i.e. "Don't go into a business you don't understand".
You're probably right, that he's not at all happy, (considering we were targeting a top 10 finish), &, like you, I'm not sure that he has the contacts for an alternative executive.

I'm not sure I agree with some of your assessments of 2017 signings though. IMO, by & large, we have signed technically superior players, but it's the character that's found wanting.
Personally, I think we have a pretty good bunch of technical players, certainly good enough to keep us in the Premier League, but I'm not sure we've got the leadership that we need. It will be interesting over the next few weeks, to see who actually steps up to the plate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on December 24, 2017, 12:57:50 PM
 the culpability for our current predicament  can be attributed to no one person and can be traced back to the time Roy left, Since then we have had some strange managerial appointments (Irvine  and Mel ) as well as renewal of Pulis' contract, and premature sacking of Clarke. This has been added to by uncertainty over the sale, board room inertia and poor recruitment decisions. I suspect too their has probably been some dressing room disquiet over a number of things particularly over the last 12 months. Add all those things up and it is no wonder we are a ship heading for the rocks of relegation with a ready made scapegoat in the eyes of many at the helm. All my opinion of course no insider knowledge at all
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 24, 2017, 02:50:19 PM
the culpability for our current predicament  can be attributed to no one person and can be traced back to the time Roy left, Since then we have had some strange managerial appointments (Irvine  and Mel ) as well as renewal of Pulis' contract, and premature sacking of Clarke. This has been added to by uncertainty over the sale, board room inertia and poor recruitment decisions. I suspect too their has probably been some dressing room disquiet over a number of things particularly over the last 12 months. Add all those things up and it is no wonder we are a ship heading for the rocks of relegation with a ready made scapegoat in the eyes of many at the helm. All my opinion of course no insider knowledge at all
All of this, but Clarke was not premature imo
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Lloydy on December 24, 2017, 04:10:42 PM
Whatever happened to Saint Jeremy of Albion only wanting to sell us to someone who could take the club further than he could?

Hope he gets a sunburnt head on his Caribbean cruise, the absolute s**thouse.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on December 24, 2017, 07:33:24 PM

As far as Lai is concerned, he's broken one of the primary rules of business, i.e. "Don't go into a business you don't understand".
You're probably right, that he's not at all happy, (considering we were targeting a top 10 finish), &, like you, I'm not sure that he has the contacts for an alternative executive.

I'm not sure I agree with some of your assessments of 2017 signings though. IMO, by & large, we have signed technically superior players, but it's the character that's found wanting.
Personally, I think we have a pretty good bunch of technical players, certainly good enough to keep us in the Premier League, but I'm not sure we've got the leadership that we need. It will be interesting over the next few ingweeks, to see who actually steps up to the plate.

Couple of points because of the nature of the beast those who buy football clubs seldom have experience of running football clubs because few people actually make money in the industry. The only people with a sports background are those Americans who have experience of owning US sports franchises and they haven't always been a conspicuous success. 

With regard to recruitment my point was not specifically about this summer. I would concede that technically they are better than some of the earlier cohorts. Yet Barry screams "good character" Krychowiak signed on reputation and no real thought about how any of it was going to work together
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on December 24, 2017, 11:06:06 PM
Whatever happened to Saint Jeremy of Albion only wanting to sell us to someone who could take the club further than he could? Hope he gets a sunburnt head on his Caribbean cruise, the absolute s**thouse.

His priority was maximising his return not selling us to the best owner for the football club. If he cared about the club he could have sold at discount £50-100m to FOSUN who have deep pockets and ambition. As it was he sold to an owner who doesn't have any means or intent to invest in the club. He got his circa £175m but left the club adrift. That legacy will hold us back for decades.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on December 25, 2017, 11:37:33 AM
His priority was maximising his return not selling us to the best owner for the football club. If he cared about the club he could have sold at discount £50-100m to FOSUN who have deep pockets and ambition. As it was he sold to an owner who doesn't have any means or intent to invest in the club. He got his circa £175m but left the club adrift. That legacy will hold us back for decades.
I'm guessing you're not aware of libel laws or else you wouldn't be posting your opinions as facts.
Unless you were part of the negotiations and know who did or didn't submit bids you can only speculate on the motives and intentions of either Peace or Lai.

Also, it doesn't matter how deep your pockets are if you're hamstrung by the FPP rules.

You may think Peace's legacy will hold us back for decades but it is my understanding that actually the Premier League rules wouldn't allow him to take us any further (which he regularly voted against) and without him continuing on from the start Thompson gave us, we would quite possibly be in a lower division now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on December 25, 2017, 01:21:34 PM
I'm guessing you're not aware of libel laws or else you wouldn't be posting your opinions as facts.
Unless you were part of the negotiations and know who did or didn't submit bids you can only speculate on the motives and intentions of either Peace or Lai.

Also, it doesn't matter how deep your pockets are if you're hamstrung by the FPP rules.

You may think Peace's legacy will hold us back for decades but it is my understanding that actually the Premier League rules wouldn't allow him to take us any further (which he regularly voted against) and without him continuing on from the start Thompson gave us, we would quite possibly be in a lower division now.

I'm a solicitor and don't need the condescending lecture on libel laws.

FFP is a fairly toothless set of regulations. Our neighbours haven't had any bother spending tons of cash on footballers from Athletic Madrid and Porto; way beyond their revenue. Clubs with owners with deep pockets are still capable of transformational growth with injections of cash through sponsorship and stadium rights etc. We have an owner who has not committed to investing into the club publicly. All the statements from the board level have been consistent that we have to work within the revenue we have and that the operating model based on generating a modest profit will continue. Lai also doesn't have billions of pounds. An investment company was used to support his purchase that has reportedly cost £150-200m. FOSUN have a networth of £3 billion. It's complete chalk and cheese. Our neighbours have opened the floodgates and have spent like confetti, building a team and club that is on course to overtake our own. I know which owner I would have preferred.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 25, 2017, 01:46:35 PM
I'm guessing you're not aware of libel laws or else you wouldn't be posting your opinions as facts.
Unless you were part of the negotiations and know who did or didn't submit bids you can only speculate on the motives and intentions of either Peace or Lai.

Also, it doesn't matter how deep your pockets are if you're hamstrung by the FPP rules.

You may think Peace's legacy will hold us back for decades but it is my understanding that actually the Premier League rules wouldn't allow him to take us any further (which he regularly voted against) and without him continuing on from the start Thompson gave us, we would quite possibly be in a lower division now.
This is exactly how I understand it too, when the FFP rules were being pushed through Peace was absolutely against it as it would without doubt restrict us ...
Now at that point he was probably thinking about his personal exit strategy and the easiest to hing to do was lie down and make friends with the big money men that own the top clubs....he choose not too..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sing on our own on December 25, 2017, 05:29:06 PM
It’s not the spending we are on the limit with it’s our wages which can only be increased by a percentage each season. We could theoretically sign a player for 25milion as long as he would play for 7 grand a week. I would you would but they won’t.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 25, 2017, 05:32:56 PM
I'm a solicitor and don't need the condescending lecture on libel laws.

FFP is a fairly toothless set of regulations. Our neighbours haven't had any bother spending tons of cash on footballers from Athletic Madrid and Porto; way beyond their revenue. Clubs with owners with deep pockets are still capable of transformational growth with injections of cash through sponsorship and stadium rights etc. We have an owner who has not committed to investing into the club publicly. All the statements from the board level have been consistent that we have to work within the revenue we have and that the operating model based on generating a modest profit will continue. Lai also doesn't have billions of pounds. An investment company was used to support his purchase that has reportedly cost £150-200m. FOSUN have a networth of £3 billion. It's complete chalk and cheese. Our neighbours have opened the floodgates and have spent like confetti, building a team and club that is on course to overtake our own. I know which owner I would have preferred.

Sorry but you are wrong.  FFP rules are not “toothless”.  Clubs take them far more seriously than you infer.

In case you haven’t noticed, Wolves are not in the Premier League. They are therefore not yet subject to Premier League FFP rules. They are merely subject to the FA’s general FFP rules which are NOT the same at all. 

Wolves are treading on thin ice and there are lots of questions about what they are up to.

Mr Lai is permitted to invest equity, but not debt, to cover the club’s trading losses. Any wealthy owner can still do that. By far the bigger problem is the salary cap, which restricts how much of a club’s TV rights money can be spent on wages.  We are right up against that limit.  A club can spend (in addition) all of its non-TV rights revenue on wages but we have hardly any of that, unlike the big 6 with their huge gate money, merchandising, prize money from Champions League etc.  Even clubs like Newcastle and West Ham with their 40k to 50k games can spend a lot more on wages than us with our 25k capacity.   And the loopholes which the likes of Man City exploited through excessive artificial sponsorship deals have been closed down.

The bottom line is that Lai said all along that we would operate as a business within its means. He was never going to throw huge sums at us, and even if wanted to, the FFP wage bill restriction cannot be overcome.  We simply have to free up some wages in order to sign some high earning players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on December 25, 2017, 05:56:45 PM
All of this, but Clarke was not premature imo
It was when you look what happened next!! There was no plan in place and IMO he was quite capable of keeping us up and taking us to stability again imo
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on December 25, 2017, 08:56:02 PM
Sorry but you are wrong.  FFP rules are not “toothless”.  Clubs take them far more seriously than you infer.

In case you haven’t noticed, Wolves are not in the Premier League. They are therefore not yet subject to Premier League FFP rules. They are merely subject to the FA’s general FFP rules which are NOT the same at all. 

Wolves are treading on thin ice and there are lots of questions about what they are up to.

Mr Lai is permitted to invest equity, but not debt, to cover the club’s trading losses. Any wealthy owner can still do that. By far the bigger problem is the salary cap, which restricts how much of a club’s TV rights money can be spent on wages.  We are right up against that limit.  A club can spend (in addition) all of its non-TV rights revenue on wages but we have hardly any of that, unlike the big 6 with their huge gate money, merchandising, prize money from Champions League etc.  Even clubs like Newcastle and West Ham with their 40k to 50k games can spend a lot more on wages than us with our 25k capacity.   And the loopholes which the likes of Man City exploited through excessive artificial sponsorship deals have been closed down.

The bottom line is that Lai said all along that we would operate as a business within its means. He was never going to throw huge sums at us, and even if wanted to, the FFP wage bill restriction cannot be overcome.  We simply have to free up some wages in order to sign some high earning players.
This and , even with a modicum of research, confetti spending Wolves spent about 17M € nett compared to our near 44M € nett spend.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on December 25, 2017, 11:44:30 PM
This and , even with a modicum of research, confetti spending Wolves spent about 17M € nett compared to our near 44M € nett spend.  ;)

Wolves have spent £47m on transfer fees since July 2016. Neves alone cost £15.8m. Clearly have have not spent £17m net. Moreover their owners have the world's most powerful football agent on board. Allowing them to sign quality players like Jota on loan from Athletic Madrid. Meanwhile we signed Livermore and Barry...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on December 26, 2017, 01:44:32 AM
Wolves have spent £47m on transfer fees since July 2016. Neves alone cost £15.8m. Clearly have have not spent £17m net. Moreover their owners have the world's most powerful football agent on board. Allowing them to sign quality players like Jota on loan from Athletic Madrid. Meanwhile we signed Livermore and Barry...

They actually have spent £17m net, bar Neves all of their better players were loaned in. Obviously they will have to spend a lot to make them permanent. Once they get their wage bill up to PL level then they'll be just as hamstrung as us in terms of FFP.

Where they are going right, as you say, is looking abroad for the likes of Jota and Neves while we are spending far more on British dross.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on December 26, 2017, 08:32:36 AM
The point I think is our strategy of signing British or experienced top league/ premier players on high wages must end because its unsustainable and it’s not bore fruit . We’ve been more successful with imaginative signings e.g. Hegazi 4.5m vs Livermore 10m or Rodriguez 15m (shudder). Hopefully this was Pulis’ Strategy and we can now move on from it.

I wouldn’t question Lai, I think he’s OK, been sensible. I would question Williams and Hammond as to whether they need to up their game. All successful businesses have a clear plan/ strategy , what is ours bar existing in the premier league for as long as possible by signing experienced British, premier or top league players (has been the case in some cases) . For all of his critics , Peace was a great strategist and perfected the buy low plan (Brunt, Morrison, Olson, Yacob, McCauley, Odemwingie) which gave the club our backbone for 10 years. That ended and we look more like a Bolton, Sunderland or Villa now and we know how that ends.

January will be a massive test for the directors. We all know this club is going nowhere but down without a refresh of the first team and some new ideas but can they wheel and deal enough to give us a better chance? Are they connected enough to bring in imaginative signings? What is their longer term plan to sustain us apart from the rest?

Do they have enough ideas to help us compete in the longer term or is their answer to lurch from one Manager to the next in the hope he’ll stumble on a strategy which suits us as seemed to be the case with Pulis and now Pardew?

I’m looking at Williams and Hammond, not Lai tbh.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on December 26, 2017, 09:08:43 AM
Wolves have spent £47m on transfer fees since July 2016. Neves alone cost £15.8m. Clearly have have not spent £17m net. Moreover their owners have the world's most powerful football agent on board. Allowing them to sign quality players like Jota on loan from Athletic Madrid. Meanwhile we signed Livermore and Barry...
17M nett was during last transfer window, you appear to have gone back two summer's so you can add another approx £10M to our spend.  ;)

Whilst you've chosen to blame Peace and Lai, the position remains that we are hamstrung by FFP , which Wolves are not as much yet and as Darbolina points out a transfer policy to appease our ex dinosaur manager who is no longer with us. Before we appointed Pardew I commented this would be a period we can judge the motivation and success of our new chairman. Not 100% convinced about his coach appointment but I'm happy to give him time (anyone but Pulis  >:() and we will have to see what direction is set in January? It may be too late to repair the damage done by Pulis but in terms of the long term future of our club it will be a massive indicator, in my opinion  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on December 26, 2017, 11:08:26 AM
This FFP malarkey,doesn't seem to apply to top 6 who spend money like confetti,if we have a problem with this find a way around it,others seemingly are,eg  rename hawthorns palm stadium wouldn't bother me,this is today's world were living in not 100 years ago.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on December 26, 2017, 11:13:22 AM
telegraph reporting that stoke and hughes are targeting 3 signings to refresh their squad.how are they getting awawy with FFP?not exactly a big club with whopping gates are they?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on December 26, 2017, 11:28:22 AM
Has a club ever been punished from breaching FFP  rules?I recall talk sometime back about QPR but did anything finally happen to them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 26, 2017, 12:24:57 PM
The rules for FFP are on the Premier league website, section e is about club finances.

It appears there are 3 different FFP's;

FFP regulated by the Football league

FFP regulated by the Premier league

FFP regulated by EUFEA

All have the same aims, but different criteria, so as others have said, it's difficult to make a comparison between us & Wolves or the PL top 6.

Player costs are described as "Player Services Costs and Image Contract
Payments". I assume that if transfer fees are written down over the period of the contract, the write down cost would be included in that heading.

As I understand it, FFP was conceived to ensure that clubs were in a position to pay their debts within a 3 year trading period. As others have said, it's perfectly possibly for Guochuan Lai, to increase his equity within the FC, but he can't do it in the form of a loan,

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 26, 2017, 12:25:27 PM
This FFP malarkey,doesn't seem to apply to top 6 who spend money like confetti,if we have a problem with this find a way around it,others seemingly are,eg  rename hawthorns palm stadium wouldn't bother me,this is today's world were living in not 100 years ago.

For crying out loud, Google FFP and find out about it before spurting out such nonsense!

In brief:

Every club in the PL can freely spend a set amount of its TV rights money on wages, and that amount rises by a fixed amount each year.  It is why newly promoted clubs can suddenly spend big on wages.

But in addition:

Every club can ALSO spend all of its others income on wages without restriction.  That’s why the big 6 clubs with their global following (merchandising revenue), bigger stadiums (gate revenue) and prize money can afford to spend so much more than the rest.  It’s really not difficult to understand.

Selling the stadium naming rights brings in extra revenue in one year only, which is useless when signing expensive players on 3-4 year contracts as the stadium naming rights can’t be sold every year.

There are PL and UEFA sanctions for breaching FFP, including not being allowed to play in European competitions, plus fines.  Clubs can break it on one season but it is taken as 3-year average.  Any surplus in one year means lagging behind in other years to bring the 3-year average down, so not a good policy.

Stoke may well be planning to bring 3 in. Rest assured they will be selling to cover it.

QPR’s huge fine was from the Football League, not from the Premier League. They overspent massively in wages in their promotion season. Wolves may be on thin ice there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on December 26, 2017, 12:29:30 PM
For crying out loud, Google FFP and find out about it before spurting out such nonsense!

In brief:

Every club in the PL can freely spend a set amount of its TV rights money on wages, and that amount rises by a fixed amount each year.  It is why newly promoted clubs can suddenly spend big on wages.

But in addition:

Every club can ALSO spend all of its others income on wages without restriction.  That’s why the big 6 clubs with their global following (merchandising revenue), bigger stadiums (gate revenue) and prize money can afford to spend so much more than the rest.  It’s really not difficult to understand.

Selling the stadium naming rights brings in extra revenue in one year only, which is useless when signing expensive players on 3-4 year contracts as the stadium naming rights can’t be sold every year.

There are PL and UEFA sanctions for breaching FFP, including not being allowed to play in European competitions, plus fines.  Clubs can break it on one season but it is taken as 3-year average.  Any surplus in one year means lagging behind in other years to bring the 3-year average down, so not a good policy.

Stoke may well be planning to bring 3 in. Rest assured they will be selling to cover it.

QPR’s huge fine was from the Football League, not from the Premier League. They overspent massively in wages in their promotion season. Wolves may be on thin ice there.
where theres money there will always be corruption,end of argument
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on December 26, 2017, 09:42:31 PM
In brief:

Every club in the PL can freely spend a set amount of its TV rights money on wages, and that amount rises by a fixed amount each year.  It is why newly promoted clubs can suddenly spend big on wages.

But in addition:

Every club can ALSO spend all of its others income on wages without restriction.  That’s why the big 6 clubs with their global following (merchandising revenue), bigger stadiums (gate revenue) and prize money can afford to spend so much more than the rest.  It’s really not difficult to understand.
In other words, it favours those who already have everything going for them as it is....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 26, 2017, 09:54:20 PM
In other words, it favours those who already have everything going for them as it is....

Yes, but it's your money you risk, not creditors.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on December 26, 2017, 10:30:51 PM
couldnt give a shyte about those dingles or the ffp if teams can get around it then so should albion. after todays game and injury to one of our so called strikers its a must that we need to invest in at least two strikers and an attacking midfielder.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on January 02, 2018, 10:14:31 PM
Show us what you are made of!!!!!! Go and get quality
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 02, 2018, 10:15:47 PM
He doesn't know who we are or what he has brought.

His fixture list only states Man United and Liverpool.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gavinrussell on January 02, 2018, 10:17:25 PM
Imagine someone has told him that his investment is slowly going down the pan..will be lucky to get 20,000 at home in the Championship..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 02, 2018, 10:17:31 PM
He doesn't know who we are or what he has brought.

His fixture list only states Man United and Liverpool.


If he doesn't do something sharpish like buy the naming rights to the ground for another £200 million  ;D  they won't be on his fixture list next year. Though I imagine he'll just pocket the parachute payments and walk away.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 02, 2018, 10:19:03 PM

If he doesn't do something sharpish like buy the naming rights to the ground for another £200 million  ;D  they won't be on his fixture list next year. Though I imagine he'll just pocket the parachute payments and walk away.

If my investment was going down the pan like his is, then I'd have been on the first flight weeks ago knocking all and sundry about to find out what was happening

I'm sure he'll give them a rousing rollocking on Skype
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 02, 2018, 10:19:35 PM
Will loose interest like randy learner and the venkies
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on January 02, 2018, 10:20:01 PM
His EcoTown project sure will look great with The Championship logo on it!  ;D ;D fraud
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on January 02, 2018, 10:30:00 PM
His choice, invest or see your £180m club go down along with its huge tv income.he could asset strip by selling anything that'll fetch money and pocket the parachute money.we are about to find out exactly what kind of owner we have.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Greenock Baggie on January 02, 2018, 10:31:58 PM
Any owner worth his salt would be on Pardews mobile phone right now asking what we need and what we can get, either Back Pardew or we're f***ed !!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on January 02, 2018, 10:36:54 PM
I think a lot of the bile needs to go Williams & Hammonds way. Their decision making is the reason why we are in this mess, how Williams gave Pulis a contract extension after the run of games we had to end last season is unfathomable, they then hire a bloke who doesn't look like he can get us out of the mess. Hammond has to take an awful lot of of the blame too. He's responsible for targeting players and under his guidance we've bust the best part of £30 million on 2 championship players in Rodriguez & Burke along with signing a whole host of other championship quality players with the likes of Nyom & Robson - Kanu. Again he had a big part to play in hiring Pardew.

Lai needs to sack both as they have taken us from a mid-table Premier League club to a club that will get relegated and it wouldn't surprise me if the way we carry on will be languishing around the bottom half of the championship next season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Trawl on January 02, 2018, 10:45:26 PM
Listening yesterday to Pat Murphy on R5 talking about the possible Newcastle takeover gave me shudders. £200m has been offered but Ashley wants £250m. Newcastle’s poor form has led to a stand-off; both sides know the club will only be worth around £100 as a Championship club.
So what is the value of WBAFC as a Championship club and what will Lai’s paper loss look like and what will his attitude be?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on January 02, 2018, 11:22:47 PM
Any owner worth his salt would be on Pardews mobile phone right now asking what we need and what we can get, either Back Pardew or we're f***ed !!!
You would hope so , must be a way around that FFP
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on January 02, 2018, 11:34:49 PM
I don’t know Lai of cottage but I’d say he’s a financial investor and therefore will take financial decisions such as stripping the club to the bone if we go down? Not saying he’s jeopardise his investment but if he can claw back 40 or 50 m by selling players I think he would.

No mistake , relegation is a financial disaster for us but we’ve survived it in the past and will again. However in the past 15 years  we’ve had owners who understood the game unlike Lai . It’s interesting how quickly we’ve gone down unde Lai/ Williams et al isn’t it, can’t be a coincidence can it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on January 03, 2018, 10:22:29 AM
the more i see and less i hear from Lai the more the two words asset and stripping come to mind. You would hope tha with his previous experience Williams would recognize the signs but his silence is bewildering and worrying
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on January 03, 2018, 10:24:08 AM
The only time he makes an appearance is when we play one of the big boys so that he can have his photo took with one of THEIR players
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sing on our own on January 03, 2018, 10:31:09 AM
I think he will take the parachute money sell what he can and get his money back that way. It will take us years to recover if ever. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on January 03, 2018, 10:34:21 AM
I think he will take the parachute money sell what he can and get his money back that way. It will take us years to recover if ever.

Maybe JP will offer him half of what he paid for it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 03, 2018, 10:35:45 AM
Fosun representatives and the villa owner are always there with their purchases
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 03, 2018, 10:36:29 AM
I think he will take the parachute money sell what he can and get his money back that way. It will take us years to recover if ever.

spot on thats exactly what will happen
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Scooby Doo on January 03, 2018, 10:43:58 AM
After what happened at Blackpool, asset stripping of any nature would be stupid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 03, 2018, 10:56:54 AM
After what happened at Blackpool, asset stripping of any nature would be stupid.

Agreed, but it doesn't rule it out. Genuinely concerned; the ball is very much in Mr. Lai's court this month and will tell us all we need to know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 03, 2018, 10:58:16 AM
I think he will take the parachute money sell what he can and get his money back that way. It will take us years to recover if ever.

This is my horrible gut feeling too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 03, 2018, 12:15:22 PM
Hammond has to take an awful lot of of the blame too. He's responsible for targeting players and under his guidance we've bust the best part of £30 million on 2 championship players in Rodriguez & Burke along with signing a whole host of other championship quality players with the likes of Nyom & Robson - Kanu.

All of those signings fall on Pulis not Hammond. He had complete control and veto over signings and could only attract old-school cloggers which he loved. He wasn't a manager to limit himself to coaching and to work closely with a director of football. He liked to have complete control with his own team and as said by the chairman 18 months ago had a very limited pool of players he liked (tall, strong, British core, defensive, premiership experience etc...). Bear in mind this summer Brighton signed Pascal Gross who was second top for assists in the Bundesliga last season and has been superb for them. We could have signed him instead but we preferred Greg and Gareth Barry! That was the doomed Pulis mindset for you. Don't forget he spent a long time trying to persuade John Terry to sign as well. He just loved that collection of English players who are now over the hill.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 03, 2018, 12:58:40 PM
I’m struggling to see why the owner is getting a lot of stick, we were the 6th highest net spenders in the summer on transfer fees as well as breaking our wage structure to bring a big name player in on loan. It’s not his fault the board, recruitment team and manager spent it poorly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on January 03, 2018, 01:51:39 PM
Although far from blameless i do find it bizarre the board seem to be getting so much stick.

Lai took over 18 months ago, a foreign owner from the far east, first thing he did was make a sensible appointment, get somebody in who has run (and run well) a similar sized club to Albion, he got in John Williams who was in charge of Blackburn in their most successful recent period, he also left on principle when their new owners took over.

When Pulis was appointed, we were told he had control of the club top to bottom, a lot of fans wanted a bit more of a long term vision, JP realised that too and we then got in Hammond, again who do a good job at a similar sized club (yes we are bigger than Reading but its not like he is dropping down from a Real Madrid or moving up from Kiddy Harriers) Hammond has been here less than two years, there were a lot of poor people in that role after Ashworth and before Hammond so it wasnt going to perform miracles overnight.

I think Pulis still seemed to be the main man though and rightly so, thats what you have a manager for. The summer of 2016 was a bit chaotic with the takeover and its fair to say the transfer window was average at best.

However Pulis got that squad to 40 points by February 2017 time and made it clear to improve he needed support, the last few months of the season were poor but Pulis had done his job with limited resources, I would imagine the summer just gone the board would of said -

'Well done on keeping us in the league after a turbulent window last summer, however although staying in the league is number one, we are looking to promote the 'brand' and therefore we want to see a bit more ambition on the pitch to please the fans and to promote the 'brand, due to the job you have done in difficult circumstances what do you need to achieve these ambitions?'

Pulis probably said a bit more stability contract wise (hindsight a mistake, but if you saying you want us to improve you have to back the person doing it) and then said the players he needed and thats where i think the main issue is, Pulis got players he felt he needed rather than wanted.

Pulis has coached a certain way for 30 years, like it or not, its successful to a point, its fine when you have got players who are limited and happy to play that way, i personally think he got caught in two minds and ended up not producing a better footballing team but also moved away from what he has known for 30 years and by the time he tried to resort back to his default, it was too late, i think thats what cost him.

The board have broke our transfer record a couple of times, paying massive wages for a club of our size, but the problem is a lot of our signings arent what we needed and Pardew is stuck with them. Pulis was backed well, he just didnt sign the right players, if he turned round and said he wasnt backed then the fans would have a go at the board for not backing the manager, now the board have backed the manager, they are too blame!

Hindsight is easy, looking back maybe they should of said to Pulis in the summer, lets see how we go for a few months before a new contract but when offering to back the manager, you have to do it.

I would like to of seen us think outside the box when it comes to a new manager but if we had gone that route and it all went wrong us fans would be going mad! We have gone with a british manager who probably plays football the way the board were hoping Pulis would get the team playing, at the moment we are struggling but Pardew needs to wheel and deal, apparently FFP is affecting us, if we thought sod it, lets just ignore it then later down the line start getting fines, points deducted, etc then again us fans would be in uproar, sometimes the board are damned if they do, damned if they dont.

Pardew has to wheel and deal, get some fresh faces in and try and balance the squad a bit, for all the board, off the field stuff, etc it ultimately comes down to the players on the pitch, many of whom upto March of 2017 were looking very competent players playing in a top 10 premier league team, i would be looking just as much at them and their motivation as to why in less than a year they have dropped off so badly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 03, 2018, 02:41:55 PM
Although far from blameless i do find it bizarre the board seem to be getting so much stick.

Lai took over 18 months ago, a foreign owner from the far east, first thing he did was make a sensible appointment, get somebody in who has run (and run well) a similar sized club to Albion, he got in John Williams who was in charge of Blackburn in their most successful recent period, he also left on principle when their new owners took over.

When Pulis was appointed, we were told he had control of the club top to bottom, a lot of fans wanted a bit more of a long term vision, JP realised that too and we then got in Hammond, again who do a good job at a similar sized club (yes we are bigger than Reading but its not like he is dropping down from a Real Madrid or moving up from Kiddy Harriers) Hammond has been here less than two years, there were a lot of poor people in that role after Ashworth and before Hammond so it wasnt going to perform miracles overnight.

I think Pulis still seemed to be the main man though and rightly so, thats what you have a manager for. The summer of 2016 was a bit chaotic with the takeover and its fair to say the transfer window was average at best.

However Pulis got that squad to 40 points by February 2017 time and made it clear to improve he needed support, the last few months of the season were poor but Pulis had done his job with limited resources, I would imagine the summer just gone the board would of said -

'Well done on keeping us in the league after a turbulent window last summer, however although staying in the league is number one, we are looking to promote the 'brand' and therefore we want to see a bit more ambition on the pitch to please the fans and to promote the 'brand, due to the job you have done in difficult circumstances what do you need to achieve these ambitions?'

Pulis probably said a bit more stability contract wise (hindsight a mistake, but if you saying you want us to improve you have to back the person doing it) and then said the players he needed and thats where i think the main issue is, Pulis got players he felt he needed rather than wanted.

Pulis has coached a certain way for 30 years, like it or not, its successful to a point, its fine when you have got players who are limited and happy to play that way, i personally think he got caught in two minds and ended up not producing a better footballing team but also moved away from what he has known for 30 years and by the time he tried to resort back to his default, it was too late, i think thats what cost him.

The board have broke our transfer record a couple of times, paying massive wages for a club of our size, but the problem is a lot of our signings arent what we needed and Pardew is stuck with them. Pulis was backed well, he just didnt sign the right players, if he turned round and said he wasnt backed then the fans would have a go at the board for not backing the manager, now the board have backed the manager, they are too blame!

Hindsight is easy, looking back maybe they should of said to Pulis in the summer, lets see how we go for a few months before a new contract but when offering to back the manager, you have to do it.

I would like to of seen us think outside the box when it comes to a new manager but if we had gone that route and it all went wrong us fans would be going mad! We have gone with a british manager who probably plays football the way the board were hoping Pulis would get the team playing, at the moment we are struggling but Pardew needs to wheel and deal, apparently FFP is affecting us, if we thought sod it, lets just ignore it then later down the line start getting fines, points deducted, etc then again us fans would be in uproar, sometimes the board are damned if they do, damned if they dont.

Pardew has to wheel and deal, get some fresh faces in and try and balance the squad a bit, for all the board, off the field stuff, etc it ultimately comes down to the players on the pitch, many of whom upto March of 2017 were looking very competent players playing in a top 10 premier league team, i would be looking just as much at them and their motivation as to why in less than a year they have dropped off so badly.

That'a a pretty good summary of how I feel also.

As far as FFP is concerned, as far as I can see, we're governed by the rules for Premier League clubs.
Section E details the requirements for finance.
Clauses E18-E22 lay out the rules for "Short Term Cost Contol" in which increases in "The Sum of Player Services Costs & Image Contract payments" cannot exceed a certain annual value in seasons 2016/17, 2017/18 & 2018/19.
However, there is a caveat which states that any "excess increase" has to be funded by a clubs' "Own revenue uplift". I assume that means the GL could fund additional players by some kind of sponsorship scheme for example.

I'd be really surprised if we didn't find funds from somewhere for additional players without having to sell the family silver.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on January 03, 2018, 03:27:51 PM
FFP is meaningless anyway. Man City went mad with money and just accepted the fine at the end of it. If Lai wants to spend he can. Evans will be gone, and possibly McLean too. If Lai adds another £15m in to the equation Pardew should have enough to wheel and deal this month. But we need to act now, not wait until January 31st !!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on January 03, 2018, 04:51:22 PM
If he wants to claw back some money he should sell the club to someone who actually knows and cares about the game.
At the moment he makes Peace look like Abramovich.
Didn't Fosun show interest in us but balked at Jeremy's asking price?
I hope Jeremy is doing ok and isn't frightened about having the heating on this winter.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 03, 2018, 07:53:42 PM
Although far from blameless i do find it bizarre the board seem to be getting so much stick.

Lai took over 18 months ago, a foreign owner from the far east, first thing he did was make a sensible appointment, get somebody in who has run (and run well) a similar sized club to Albion, he got in John Williams who was in charge of Blackburn in their most successful recent period, he also left on principle when their new owners took over.

When Pulis was appointed, we were told he had control of the club top to bottom, a lot of fans wanted a bit more of a long term vision, JP realised that too and we then got in Hammond, again who do a good job at a similar sized club (yes we are bigger than Reading but its not like he is dropping down from a Real Madrid or moving up from Kiddy Harriers) Hammond has been here less than two years, there were a lot of poor people in that role after Ashworth and before Hammond so it wasnt going to perform miracles overnight.

I think Pulis still seemed to be the main man though and rightly so, thats what you have a manager for. The summer of 2016 was a bit chaotic with the takeover and its fair to say the transfer window was average at best.

However Pulis got that squad to 40 points by February 2017 time and made it clear to improve he needed support, the last few months of the season were poor but Pulis had done his job with limited resources, I would imagine the summer just gone the board would of said -

'Well done on keeping us in the league after a turbulent window last summer, however although staying in the league is number one, we are looking to promote the 'brand' and therefore we want to see a bit more ambition on the pitch to please the fans and to promote the 'brand, due to the job you have done in difficult circumstances what do you need to achieve these ambitions?'

Pulis probably said a bit more stability contract wise (hindsight a mistake, but if you saying you want us to improve you have to back the person doing it) and then said the players he needed and thats where i think the main issue is, Pulis got players he felt he needed rather than wanted.

Pulis has coached a certain way for 30 years, like it or not, its successful to a point, its fine when you have got players who are limited and happy to play that way, i personally think he got caught in two minds and ended up not producing a better footballing team but also moved away from what he has known for 30 years and by the time he tried to resort back to his default, it was too late, i think thats what cost him.

The board have broke our transfer record a couple of times, paying massive wages for a club of our size, but the problem is a lot of our signings arent what we needed and Pardew is stuck with them. Pulis was backed well, he just didnt sign the right players, if he turned round and said he wasnt backed then the fans would have a go at the board for not backing the manager, now the board have backed the manager, they are too blame!

Hindsight is easy, looking back maybe they should of said to Pulis in the summer, lets see how we go for a few months before a new contract but when offering to back the manager, you have to do it.

I would like to of seen us think outside the box when it comes to a new manager but if we had gone that route and it all went wrong us fans would be going mad! We have gone with a british manager who probably plays football the way the board were hoping Pulis would get the team playing, at the moment we are struggling but Pardew needs to wheel and deal, apparently FFP is affecting us, if we thought sod it, lets just ignore it then later down the line start getting fines, points deducted, etc then again us fans would be in uproar, sometimes the board are damned if they do, damned if they dont.

Pardew has to wheel and deal, get some fresh faces in and try and balance the squad a bit, for all the board, off the field stuff, etc it ultimately comes down to the players on the pitch, many of whom upto March of 2017 were looking very competent players playing in a top 10 premier league team, i would be looking just as much at them and their motivation as to why in less than a year they have dropped off so badly.

By far the best summary that I’ve seen.  Sums it up very well for me.  Add to it the short-termism season-by-season survival planning (Pulis and Peace on the same wavelength), and an average of nearly 30, we were treating a very fine line and all it has taken is injuries to key players and we are where we are now.  Personally I don’t think we’ve had much luck in recent weeks but sh*t happens and we’ve just got to deal with it.

Honestly, if we do get relegated then we’ve got no debt and with the parachute funding plus sale proceeds of several players we’d be very well placed to go back up - with the right manager.  I doubt if that would be Pardew, but we should throw exceptional money at the right young manager with a 2-year project to get us up with a much younger side, one which would just need to be strengthened rather than replaced in the Premier League. We would go down in much better shape than many who have gone down before us, with no debt, and that’s crucial.

For what it’s worth I haven’t written us off yet. Loads of points to play for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on January 03, 2018, 10:04:44 PM
I’ve heard on a few occasions recently that Mr Lai has stated that there will not be masses of funds available for players in this window, and Pardew will have to sell-to-buy.
Well listen to this ‘sunshine’ (Mr Lai), if you are happy for your investment to lose over half of its value overnight then go for it! Just remember, if you show no intent or desire to solve this mess with the financial resources and leadership an owner should, then the Hawthorns will not be a place you will be welcome at in the future regardless of you owning a few share certificates. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boot2006 on January 03, 2018, 11:23:25 PM
Although far from blameless i do find it bizarre the board seem to be getting so much stick.

Lai took over 18 months ago, a foreign owner from the far east, first thing he did was make a sensible appointment, get somebody in who has run (and run well) a similar sized club to Albion, he got in John Williams who was in charge of Blackburn in their most successful recent period, he also left on principle when their new owners took over.

When Pulis was appointed, we were told he had control of the club top to bottom, a lot of fans wanted a bit more of a long term vision, JP realised that too and we then got in Hammond, again who do a good job at a similar sized club (yes we are bigger than Reading but its not like he is dropping down from a Real Madrid or moving up from Kiddy Harriers) Hammond has been here less than two years, there were a lot of poor people in that role after Ashworth and before Hammond so it wasnt going to perform miracles overnight.

I think Pulis still seemed to be the main man though and rightly so, thats what you have a manager for. The summer of 2016 was a bit chaotic with the takeover and its fair to say the transfer window was average at best.

However Pulis got that squad to 40 points by February 2017 time and made it clear to improve he needed support, the last few months of the season were poor but Pulis had done his job with limited resources, I would imagine the summer just gone the board would of said -

'Well done on keeping us in the league after a turbulent window last summer, however although staying in the league is number one, we are looking to promote the 'brand' and therefore we want to see a bit more ambition on the pitch to please the fans and to promote the 'brand, due to the job you have done in difficult circumstances what do you need to achieve these ambitions?'

Pulis probably said a bit more stability contract wise (hindsight a mistake, but if you saying you want us to improve you have to back the person doing it) and then said the players he needed and thats where i think the main issue is, Pulis got players he felt he needed rather than wanted.

Pulis has coached a certain way for 30 years, like it or not, its successful to a point, its fine when you have got players who are limited and happy to play that way, i personally think he got caught in two minds and ended up not producing a better footballing team but also moved away from what he has known for 30 years and by the time he tried to resort back to his default, it was too late, i think thats what cost him.

The board have broke our transfer record a couple of times, paying massive wages for a club of our size, but the problem is a lot of our signings arent what we needed and Pardew is stuck with them. Pulis was backed well, he just didnt sign the right players, if he turned round and said he wasnt backed then the fans would have a go at the board for not backing the manager, now the board have backed the manager, they are too blame!

Hindsight is easy, looking back maybe they should of said to Pulis in the summer, lets see how we go for a few months before a new contract but when offering to back the manager, you have to do it.

I would like to of seen us think outside the box when it comes to a new manager but if we had gone that route and it all went wrong us fans would be going mad! We have gone with a british manager who probably plays football the way the board were hoping Pulis would get the team playing, at the moment we are struggling but Pardew needs to wheel and deal, apparently FFP is affecting us, if we thought sod it, lets just ignore it then later down the line start getting fines, points deducted, etc then again us fans would be in uproar, sometimes the board are damned if they do, damned if they dont.

Pardew has to wheel and deal, get some fresh faces in and try and balance the squad a bit, for all the board, off the field stuff, etc it ultimately comes down to the players on the pitch, many of whom upto March of 2017 were looking very competent players playing in a top 10 premier league team, i would be looking just as much at them and their motivation as to why in less than a year they have dropped off so badly.

Good post.   One key point you mention is that Pulis tried to change style, realised he was uncomfortable with it and reverted back but without success.   For me also some of the players have a lot to answer for not just TP and AP.  The hunger and desire is questionable of late with this squad which is disappointing.  I really hope we get out of this but its going to be a massive task to start winning and to maintain form given that our creative players seem to be constantly injured.  Its going to be a massive transfer window for us and one that we need to get right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on January 04, 2018, 01:35:48 AM
Never properly understood the FFP rules so decided to have a look around and found this,it's a lot to take in but it's quite informative and in places quite a few examples are given rather than facts which is understandable with football club finances not being very transparent,it also shows clubs that have done a few dodgy deals to get round the rules.

www.financialfairplay.co.uk
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on January 05, 2018, 12:42:32 PM
Top post off Albion79 again
The biggest mistake by Mr Williams was not pushing for a replacement manager before the end of last season when TP had done the job he had been asked to do..
Mr Williams more than anyone should have known what TP brought to a club after a season,  blame him not the board for being short sighted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on January 05, 2018, 04:09:40 PM
Its a good post, but in my view the Owner is exempt from criticism, he has done his job in making funds available thus far,
but the operational board is most certainly not.

Extending Pulis contract - Massive Mistake
Giving Pulis sole authority or veto (whichever is true) over signings - Massive Mistake
Sanctioning extended contract for Morrison, - Mistake
Sanctioning 100k plus for a loan player - Mistake (benefit of hindsight admittedly)
Not identifying replacements for Pulis - Mistake
Not having players lined up for Jan 1st - Mistake (other clubs have, why can't we? will not accept FFP as argument, books can be balanced subsequently)

The board have made too many errors and too few marks in the plus column, there SHOULD be consequences !




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hunsletbaggie on January 10, 2018, 05:35:01 PM
     I don't get it JP said he would only sell the club to someone who could take us to the next level.
This fella has put a board in place and is running the club in the exact same model as JP but a lot worse  in my opinion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on January 10, 2018, 10:09:42 PM
Peace is 100% to blame for our current plight. He cared not a jot for what the supporters wanted and knew pulis would keep us up guaranteeing maximum profit on his minimal outlay and walking away with an extremely healthy profit while selling the premiership cash cow to lai and his investors that we will settle for no ambition and they can cream the profits.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 10, 2018, 10:44:45 PM
Peace is 100% to blame for our current plight. He cared not a jot for what the supporters wanted and knew pulis would keep us up guaranteeing maximum profit on his minimal outlay and walking away with an extremely healthy profit while selling the premiership cash cow to lai and his investors that we will settle for no ambition and they can cream the profits.
totally agree mate bloke was out for himself couldnt give a monkies about our club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 11, 2018, 09:02:40 AM
Doom and gloom and rightly so, cough up or ship out Lai. take you scarves with you. its pathetic we havent signed anyone yet before our biggest game of the season so far HRK hat trick saturday folks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on January 11, 2018, 10:00:20 AM
Doom and gloom and rightly so, cough up or ship out Lai. take you scarves with you. its pathetic we havent signed anyone yet before our biggest game of the season so far HRK hat trick saturday folks

You on the wind up again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: telford baggie on January 11, 2018, 10:04:14 AM
Doom and gloom and rightly so, cough up or ship out Lai. take you scarves with you. its pathetic we havent signed anyone yet before our biggest game of the season so far HRK hat trick saturday folks
if he scores a hatrick on saturday ill have HRK tattoed on my ass....it aint happening blokes a donkey
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on January 11, 2018, 10:11:49 AM
Lai is a 'Steady Eddie' kind of investor vs a boom or bust Fosun/ Randy Lerner kind of investor as far as I can see. It seems like Wolves will hit the boom time certainly in the short term so good luck to them. They have a clear strategy based on direct links with the football and business World which is supplying the money. The biggest question for them is if they cannot sustain success and grow their turnover, they could be left with big debts and the kind of hangover which has affected Villa.  Meanwhile, Albion seem to pragmatically plod along in much the same way as we did before Lai which is not necessarily a bad thing in the long term as far as I can see (look back 15 years to now), however in the short term , we're likely to have the same results - a few yoyo years followed by relative success but never really setting the football World alight.

I'd love a few fun years of excitement but that won't happen I'm afraid.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on January 11, 2018, 10:44:21 AM
Its a good post, but in my view the Owner is exempt from criticism, he has done his job in making funds available thus far,
but the operational board is most certainly not.

Extending Pulis contract - Massive Mistake
Giving Pulis sole authority or veto (whichever is true) over signings - Massive Mistake
Sanctioning extended contract for Morrison, - Mistake
Sanctioning 100k plus for a loan player - Mistake (benefit of hindsight admittedly)
Not identifying replacements for Pulis - Mistake
Not having players lined up for Jan 1st - Mistake (other clubs have, why can't we? will not accept FFP as argument, books can be balanced subsequently)

The board have made too many errors and too few marks in the plus column, there SHOULD be consequences !
Agree with that list and would like to add
Appointing Alan Pardew (masssive mistake)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on January 11, 2018, 11:30:47 AM
Hey timdon,how do you work out that appointing Pardew is a massive mistake?
He's only just started his tenure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 11, 2018, 11:42:46 AM
Agree with that list and would like to add
Appointing Alan Pardew (masssive mistake)
[/b]

I can't agree with that. He has inherited a sub standard team and has not had chance to add anyone to it. He has recalled the loanees as he is not happy with what he is seeing on the pitch. We are now playing further up the pitch and actually getting into the opposition box. He has clearly identified that we cannot finish, so I expect to see some changes/improvements this month. To say his appointment was a massive mistake is a bit premature.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on January 11, 2018, 05:14:25 PM
Hey timdon,how do you work out that appointing Pardew is a massive mistake?
He's only just started his tenure.
Only my opinion. Just don't rate him as a manager, think it was a lazy and unambitious appointment. Time will tell I suppose
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on January 11, 2018, 05:29:38 PM
[/b]

I can't agree with that. He has inherited a sub standard team and has not had chance to add anyone to it. He has recalled the loanees as he is not happy with what he is seeing on the pitch. We are now playing further up the pitch and actually getting into the opposition box. He has clearly identified that we cannot finish, so I expect to see some changes/improvements this month. To say his appointment was a massive mistake is a bit premature.
I don't agree that he inherited a sub standard team. There is a lot of talent in this squad. Pretty much the same squad, with some good quality additions, as finished 10th last season, and should have finished 8th if they hadn't taken their foot of the gas for the last half dozen games. What he inherited was a team lacking in confidence and possibly motivation.. A good coach would have improved us in both of these areas but he hasn't done this yet and he has had a good few matches to do so. Hodgson, Allardyce and even Moyes have managed improved results quite soon after they arrived, without adding anyone to their squad, and this is what a good coach and/or a good motivator will be able to do. Pardew hasn't yet shown me  that he is either of these.
Like others, I'm not sure how much Lai had to do with the appointment but he must himself be wondering if it was a good one
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Backofthenet on January 11, 2018, 06:00:00 PM
Difficult to agree if it was a mistake or not. We don't actually know what other applicants (if any) there were or if any pre planning had gone into getting a suitable replacement. It certainly doesn't look like much planning had been done and it is easy to say that AP is not a suitable replacement now although there were quite a lot of us who showed some caution about his appointment.
He hasn't been the success we wanted and if that carries on we will be in real trouble.
The squad isn't that bad although it is not well balanced and we are certainly lacking in some areas. AP seemed to make the right noises about this which appeared to give us some hope. But... we are now a third of the way into this window and there has been no action.
 I wonder why.
 Are there no funds? Surely he would have sorted that out prior to taking the job.
Do people not want to sign for us? That would not be a surprise.
Have we been linked to anyone? A bit of paper talk but that's about it.
Do we have to wait for Evans to go? Well lets get it done, but perhaps no-one actually wants him.

I'm posing these questions as an owner should. He would know about funds but ought to be questioning about other reasons for our demise.
It seems the only people who care are us but I feel that is also dwindling.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 11, 2018, 10:16:32 PM
This thread is painful..
Whilst I understand football is a sport fused with passion and emotion , some of the comments????
This owner has invested more money in West Brom than everybody registered on this forum put together, I'm not saying it makes every decion he makes right, but who are any of us to "tell him" what to do with his money .?

I would very much like some new players, some injection of impetus....but too suggest he needs to "put up or shut up" is truly ridiculous , half of the people at any clubs probably don't fully understand FFP...so I don't expect everybody on here too.
But it's there, it's real and it has an effect on what we can/can't do


Finally , the comments about only coming for the big games, is that not his choice ?, we are one cog in his business machine, why would he feel the need to go to every match?....he is not a fan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on January 11, 2018, 11:24:55 PM
This thread is painful..
Whilst I understand football is a sport fused with passion and emotion , some of the comments????
This owner has invested more money in West Brom than everybody registered on this forum put together, I'm not saying it makes every decion he makes right, but who are any of us to "tell him" what to do with his money .?

I would very much like some new players, some injection of impetus....but too suggest he needs to "put up or shut up" is truly ridiculous , half of the people at any clubs probably don't fully understand FFP...so I don't expect everybody on here too.
But it's there, it's real and it has an effect on what we can/can't do


Finally , the comments about only coming for the big games, is that not his choice ?, we are one cog in his business machine, why would he feel the need to go to every match?....he is not a fan.

Bravo, best post on the thread. Id rather we were self-financing aswell if I'm honest, with what happened with blackpool asset stripping will be incredibly hard if not impossible by owners and id rather not have to worry what if the owners pulled the plug and what would become of our club? ala villa, bolton, pompey to name a few.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on January 12, 2018, 09:02:57 AM
Definitely don't think we can lay the blame at his door, the only mistake he's made is to put all his faith in a group of people, who have made some appalling decisions.
If you look at it from his point of view, he's bought the club for £185m or whatever it was, we've continually broken transfer records and wage ceilings, yet we are more of a lame duck than we were before he came.
If, by some miracle, we stay up this season, or even more so if we don't, he needs to clear out the likes of Williams and Hammond etc. and rebuild from the top.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 12, 2018, 11:24:40 AM
Definitely don't think we can lay the blame at his door, the only mistake he's made is to put all his faith in a group of people, who have made some appalling decisions.
If you look at it from his point of view, he's bought the club for £185m or whatever it was, we've continually broken transfer records and wage ceilings, yet we are more of a lame duck than we were before he came.
If, by some miracle, we stay up this season, or even more so if we don't, he needs to clear out the likes of Williams and Hammond etc. and rebuild from the top.


All well & good in theory, but Williams was recommended by JP because, allegedly, GL didn't know the market.
What's changed now, to suggest that GL has a better knowledge on who to replace Wiliams with?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on January 20, 2018, 02:15:54 PM
The money spent on that Chinese kid was apparently from a separate budget, whatever budget it was it has a direct impact on the club financially and will be in our accounts meaning our transfer budget is impacted. As if it was from the owners pocket then that would go against FFP as owners are not allowed to put their own money in nowadays.

This man has no ambition, find a way, do things differently and buy us a top forward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on January 20, 2018, 02:35:10 PM
The money spent on that Chinese kid was apparently from a separate budget, whatever budget it was it has a direct impact on the club financially and will be in our accounts meaning our transfer budget is impacted. As if it was from the owners pocket then that would go against FFP as owners are not allowed to put their own money in nowadays.

This man has no ambition, find a way, do things differently and buy us a top forward.

It wont be in our accounts as it had nothing to do with the club from what I recall, it was money spent outside of the club finances
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on January 20, 2018, 06:30:43 PM
It wont be in our accounts as it had nothing to do with the club from what I recall, it was money spent outside of the club finances

If that was the case why wouldn't clubs around the world sign players via this method to get around FFP?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on January 20, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
If that was the case why wouldn't clubs around the world sign players via this method to get around FFP?

He isnt being paid by us from what I can recall, his transfer fee is spread over the length of his contract (3 years) so has a very small impact with regards FFP and it was a commercial investment from what I can tell

I could be very wrong but until the accounts come out I cannot tell to be honest
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on January 21, 2018, 12:56:09 AM
If that was the case why wouldn't clubs around the world sign players via this method to get around FFP?
Maybe they do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on January 23, 2018, 11:48:18 AM
We are ranked the 27th richest club in the world with revenue at
£160.5m last year.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/920737245?-11200:789
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on January 23, 2018, 12:18:59 PM
If that was the case why wouldn't clubs around the world sign players via this method to get around FFP?

there are many south american players who are "owned" by non-football clubs (tevez was one, i think).
Not sure how FFP picks this up, I can only assume that the fees paid to the players owners are treated as "wages"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_ownership_in_association_football
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 26, 2018, 12:59:57 PM
We are ranked the 27th richest club in the world with revenue at
£160.5m last year.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/920737245?-11200:789
carrillion were worth billions look at them now. might be 27 richest but if owner hasnt got liquidity behind him that will soon change,
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on February 04, 2018, 08:58:59 AM
Be nice to hear of this guy in the coming weeks. He said he wanted to be a good owner so hopefully we'll hear something about how he plans to help us straight back up etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kamarasboot on February 04, 2018, 09:36:14 AM
Be nice to hear of this guy in the coming weeks. He said he wanted to be a good owner so hopefully we'll hear something about how he plans to help us straight back up etc.

Too busy crying no into his Xinjiang beer about his investment going down the pan
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on February 04, 2018, 12:43:56 PM
He needs to sack williams and co. his true colours are next season when we ply our trade in the championship. lets hope hes as generous as Dr Seal next door or will he be another mr Chicken like the Venkeys
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 04, 2018, 01:49:53 PM
He needs to sack williams and co. his true colours are next season when we ply our trade in the championship. lets hope hes as generous as Dr Seal next door or will he be another mr Chicken like the Venkeys
agree with you mate






Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 05, 2018, 01:17:55 PM
My reading of this situation is very worrying.

Lai bought us because he wanted a Premier League club. The only games he has come to have been against the top sides, and those are the ones he wants to watch, but doesn't have enough money to buy.

When we go down, Lai probably won't want to stay around at get us back, so he'll look to sell us. He won't get back his £200 million for a Championship club, so he'll likely trouser the parachute payments and any money we get from player sales. Even if he manages to sell the club, the new owners would then have to stump up any funds to keep us going.

We could end up like Sunderland or Hull, longer term Bolton or Charlton.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on February 06, 2018, 02:35:21 PM
My reading of this situation is very worrying.

Lai bought us because he wanted a Premier League club. The only games he has come to have been against the top sides, and those are the ones he wants to watch, but doesn't have enough money to buy.

When we go down, Lai probably won't want to stay around at get us back, so he'll look to sell us. He won't get back his £200 million for a Championship club, so he'll likely trouser the parachute payments and any money we get from player sales. Even if he manages to sell the club, the new owners would then have to stump up any funds to keep us going.

We could end up like Sunderland or Hull, longer term Bolton or Charlton.

With whats happened with the oystons at blackpool, that would be nigh in impossible.


Also be careful saying such statements, just in case somebody from the club reads it and decides to take it further, could be possible slander.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on February 06, 2018, 04:00:42 PM
With whats happened with the oystons at blackpool, that would be nigh in impossible.


Also be careful saying such statements, just in case somebody from the club reads it and decides to take it further, could be possible slander.
Why would it be nigh on impossible Roy? Genuine question, has something changed to prevent another debacle like that?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on February 06, 2018, 05:48:03 PM
Why would it be nigh on impossible Roy? Genuine question, has something changed to prevent another debacle like that?

It sets the precedent doesn't it? People now know you can't asset strip and line your own pockets and get away with it
The league will be much more vigilant i imagine aswell.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 06, 2018, 06:56:33 PM
I would imagine that the parachute payments would have to stay within the accounts of the football club, but, as far as I know, there is no obligation for the club to spend them.
As someone else has said, they could sit in the accounts as a liquid asset.
If GL wanted to sell, to recover the sum that he allegedly paid for the club, then the liquid assets could be used to off-set the cash needed by a purchaser for the sale.

For Example: say the club is valued at £200 million with fixed assets of £150 million & cash (liquid assets) of £50 million, then the buyer would have to find £150 million in cash to pay for the fixed assets, & GL could walk away with £150 million from the buyer & £50 million from the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on February 11, 2018, 04:35:26 PM
Now that relegation is looking a foregone conclusion I wonder if we'll see what sort of spine GL has?  Significant investment and overhaul, (of the midfield in particular), will be needed in the summer if he's at all serious about a quick return to the prem.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on February 11, 2018, 04:37:20 PM
Now that relegation is looking a foregone conclusion I wonder if we'll see what sort of spine GL has?  Significant investment and overhaul, (of the midfield in particular), will be needed in the summer if he's at all serious about a quick return to the prem.

Would not suprise me to hear the club is up for sale with Lai looking to recover whatever he can.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on February 11, 2018, 04:40:47 PM
I don’t blame him at all, he spent the money and we were 6th highest net spenders in the summer and stumped up wages for Sturridge. Not getting rid of Pulis quicker and appointing Pardew I think has cost us and that is down to Mr Williams
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on February 11, 2018, 04:44:35 PM
He only seems to make an appearance when one of the top four are on our patch.
I'll be surprised if he puts those short arms into his deep pockets for an assault on the Championship.
I'd expect Pardew to have to generate his own transfer fees from player sales.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 11, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
The only possible trick he has left up his sleeve would be to offer huge bonuses to the first team squad to keep us up, unfortunately they are now paid so well the bung on offer would have to be absolutely huge  :-[
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on February 11, 2018, 04:54:32 PM
The only possible trick he has left up his sleeve would be to offer huge bonuses to the first team squad to keep us up, unfortunately they are now paid so well the bung on offer would have to be absolutely huge  :-[

I hope he doesn't. If they aren't willing to bust a gut for what they are paid already then fek em
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on February 11, 2018, 05:04:10 PM
He only seems to make an appearance when one of the top four are on our patch.
I'll be surprised if he puts those short arms into his deep pockets for an assault on the Championship.
I'd expect Pardew to have to generate his own transfer fees from player sales.

It was literally stated in the post above yours that we were the 6th highest net spenders in the summer, yet you're still continuing with this rhetoric that Lai won't spend money. If we are relegated then Lai is the last person we should be blaming. He has put football people in charge of the football side of things, listened to their opinions and provided them with what they wanted, it's not his fault that the likes of Williams, Hammond, Pulis and Pardew have failed him time and time again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 12, 2018, 01:41:07 PM
It was literally stated in the post above yours that we were the 6th highest net spenders in the summer, yet you're still continuing with this rhetoric that Lai won't spend money. If we are relegated then Lai is the last person we should be blaming. He has put football people in charge of the football side of things, listened to their opinions and provided them with what they wanted, it's not his fault that the likes of Williams, Hammond, Pulis and Pardew have failed him time and time again.

looking for the like button, that is spot on !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on February 12, 2018, 01:42:55 PM
This is on Williams for me. Lai not done anything wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on February 12, 2018, 01:44:12 PM
Lets just hope Lai is as generous as  Dr seal
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on February 12, 2018, 10:11:49 PM
If he's serious about us it will be interesting to see  him crack his wok, I mean whip
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on February 12, 2018, 10:12:47 PM
If he's serious about us it will be interesting to see  him crack his wok, I mean whip

Expect him to put the for sale board up some time soon
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on February 12, 2018, 10:15:29 PM
This is on Williams for me. Lai not done anything wrong.

He will be doing something wrong if they are all there in August . We need a clean slate and fresh ideas not the same rhetoric from people covering their backside.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 12, 2018, 11:19:35 PM
I haven't posted for over a week because I have been fuming as to how this team has become gutless.
If we go down (which is almost nailed on), will Lai spend on fit, exciting and hungry players?
Our knackered old millionaire has-beens should be put out to grass and out of our misery. [They don't use cars, they use Zimmer frames and wheel chairs]....How many are over 30? Their legs and quick thinking have gone...They still think in the Pulis way...pass back, pass back and pass back to Foster to let him hoof (how many times did that happen tonight, even?)
I don't think that FFP applies in the Championship, so he can pay to build a team which can get up and compete with the best in the Premiership (as did Chelski and Man Chitty who did it before restraints were imposed).
Also he has to stamp his authority on the board and get shot of the dead wood.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on February 12, 2018, 11:32:24 PM
I don't think that FFP applies in the Championship, so he can pay to build a team which can get up and compete with the best in the Premiership (as did Chelski and Man Chitty who did it before restraints were  imposed). Also he has to stamp his authority on the board and get shot of the dead wood.

FFP does apply in the championship but they don't have short term cost controls, own football league version of FFP which is easier to get around than the premiership. With parachute money and squad we should have enough to assemble a team to at least challenge for the automatic places. If we go down we'll find out what the owner is made of in the summer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kamarasboot on February 12, 2018, 11:36:31 PM
I haven't posted for over a week because I have been fuming as to how this team has become gutless.
If we go down (which is almost nailed on), will Lai spend on fit, exciting and hungry players?
Our knackered old millionaire has-beens should be put out to grass and out of our misery. [They don't use cars, they use Zimmer frames and wheel chairs]....How many are over 30? Their legs and quick thinking have gone...They still think in the Pulis way...pass back, pass back and pass back to Foster to let him hoof (how many times did that happen tonight, even?)
I don't think that FFP applies in the Championship, so he can pay to build a team which can get up and compete with the best in the Premiership (as did Chelski and Man Chitty who did it before restraints were imposed).
Also he has to stamp his authority on the board and get shot of the dead wood.

He didn’t overspend in the premier league, he won’t do it in the championship - not sure what folk are expecting.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: albion59 on February 12, 2018, 11:43:53 PM
The vile and the dingles get a sugar daddy who spend money and take chances, we get Jeremy Peace the second.Ain't worked as it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: brummyroader on February 12, 2018, 11:50:04 PM
The vile and the dingles get a sugar daddy who spend money and take chances, we get Jeremy Peace the second.Ain't worked as it?

Just over £40m spent in the summer with Greg’s 105k wages, 6/7th biggest net spend in his first proper summer window is hardly penny pinching. Plus Sturridge’s wages in Jan, very lazy to blame Lai the people who run the show day to day our responsible for where we are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kamarasboot on February 13, 2018, 12:00:53 AM
Just over £40m spent in the summer with Greg’s 105k wages, 6/7th biggest net spend in his first proper summer window is hardly penny pinching. Plus Sturridge’s wages in Jan, very lazy to blame Lai the people who run the show day to day our responsible for where we are.

Numbers need context - forget net spend, forget whether we we first or last in the spending charts. Did we get what we needed - I’d argue no. It will be the same next season.

Personally I’d find it histerical how this guys let his investment get wasted if it wasn’t for the fact it’s the club I love.

Bit like trying to sell your house by having a sh*t in the living room whilst doing a viewing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: brummyroader on February 13, 2018, 12:38:55 AM
Numbers need context - forget net spend, forget whether we we first or last in the spending charts. Did we get what we needed - I’d argue no. It will be the same next season.

Personally I’d find it histerical how this guys let his investment get wasted if it wasn’t for the fact it’s the club I love.

Bit like trying to sell your house by having a sh*t in the living room whilst doing a viewing

Proved my point, what it was spent on isn’t Lai’s doing he gave the resources that haven’t been used correctly by the people who run the club daily.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kamarasboot on February 13, 2018, 12:43:18 AM
Proved my point, what it was spent on isn’t Lai’s doing he gave the resources that haven’t been used correctly by the people who run the club daily.

Not necessarily - we may have spent £40m, but we may have needed £70m and lai refused - we’ll never know. All I can say is we’ve never spent beyond our means, and I don’t expect us to change that - that means Lai hasn’t put any extra (other than the Chinese lad who is a marketing exercise)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 13, 2018, 12:44:17 AM
I have no idea how Lai will react to relegation nor does anybody else. I have seen suggestions that he will asset strip the club, I have no idea where that notion comes from but I'm not sure there are £200m worth of assets to strip

The issue in the Championship is the same as that in the Premier League it is not the club doesn't have the resources to compete from the income it can generate but that it can't spend that money badly and hope to compete.

We need a major reboot and while I wouldn't expect any ownership group to have the expertise to deliver that, I would hope they would have a sufficient understanding to make competent executive appointments that could deliver the changes required for the club to be revived.  My problem with Lai and his associates is I'm not sure they have the understanding of the football world to make those critical appointments.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kamarasboot on February 13, 2018, 12:55:04 AM
I have no idea how Lai will react to relegation nor does anybody else. I have seen suggestions that he will asset strip the club, I have no idea where that notion comes from but I'm not sure there are £200m worth of assets to strip

The issue in the Championship is the same as that in the Premier League it is not the club doesn't have the resources to compete from the income it can generate but that it can't spend that money badly and hope to compete.

We need a major reboot and while I wouldn't expect any ownership group to have the expertise to deliver that, I would hope they would have a sufficient understanding to make competent executive appointments that could deliver the changes required for the club to be revived.  My problem with Lai and his associates is I'm not sure they have the understanding of the football world to make those critical appointments.

If Lai is true to his word and wants the club to run in the same way as in the past then we know what to expect. I agree with you I have no confidence that the football people at the club are capable of sorting it out- but those who think  Lai is going to blow teams out the water with his spending are in for a big surprise.

The only way he can maintain his investment is to minimise overall expenditure, JP was lucky in that wheen we were a yo yo side the squad was a championship one and was young enough to keep getting us back up with a little bit of investment. This team will need a mass rebuild and I can’t see him splashing the cash.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on February 13, 2018, 01:08:54 AM
wonder if he'd be interested in selling up, wasn't an offer turned down last September?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on February 13, 2018, 07:35:57 AM
Nothing wrong with Lai per se, ultimately he is allowing the club to be funded up the FFP limits. We have two players on 100k per week + (albeit loans). The only part of his ownership Lai has got wrong is the appointment of Williams but that was probably Peace's recommendation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on February 13, 2018, 08:39:47 AM
when he sacks Williams might he turn to JP
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on February 13, 2018, 09:16:54 AM
Pointless owner - May as well have kept JP
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 13, 2018, 09:24:27 AM
Pointless owner - May as well have kept JP

...and that's no Lai!  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on February 13, 2018, 09:25:07 AM
jeremy could buy it back for say 60 million then sell it again for 180 million a few years later if and when we go up again. what a money spinner
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on February 13, 2018, 12:12:03 PM
Lai and/or his team do seem to act.

I personally don’t think the owners have done much wrong
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on February 13, 2018, 12:14:45 PM
I honestly can not see in the slightest what this bloke can be blamed for. He has stumped up all the cash and the football people who were meant to look after he club have failed and he’s also now acted on that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on February 13, 2018, 12:16:19 PM
Breaking: Big change at #wba. Chairman John Williams and Chief Executive Martin Goodman 'placed on garden leave with immediate effect.' Mark Jenkins returns as CEO. Jenkins: "There is much to do but for now the focus must solely be on the remaining games of this season."

https://twitter.com/PaulSuartWBA/status/963384394848272384

Didn't see that happening. Right decision from what we know.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on February 13, 2018, 12:29:15 PM
when he sacks Williams might he turn to JP


I'd rather he found a Paul Thompson mark 2. We need someone with ambition, vision and drive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mikehy on February 13, 2018, 12:35:32 PM
I think this at least proves that he will not asset strip and just take the parachute money. Hope this is a signal we will do everything we can to get back up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: HampshireBaggie on February 13, 2018, 12:40:15 PM
Lai hasn't done anything wrong than be badly advised. He was advised to entrust 'football people' but in doing that he trusted 'football dinosaurs'
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on February 13, 2018, 12:44:38 PM
I think Lai is still taking advice from Peace given the Jenkins appointment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiebof on February 13, 2018, 12:47:29 PM
I don't know if the sackings are a good thing or a bad thing regarding our survival chances this season. It does appear that we are chucking in the towel on the season but on the other hand, I'm glad that Lai is being proactive and not accepting the situation.

On balance, it is the right decision so disregarding the timing - i'm pleased.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on February 13, 2018, 12:51:52 PM
I don't know if the sackings are a good thing or a bad thing regarding our survival chances this season. It does appear that we are chucking in the towel on the season but on the other hand, I'm glad that Lai is being proactive and not accepting the situation.

On balance, it is the right decision so disregarding the timing - i'm pleased.


I'm not sure "chucking in the towel" is the correct phrase, more facing realism, but it certainly seems that we are planning for next season and that the owner can see, like everyone, that our survival chances are now slim. The timing would strongly indicate that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 25, 2018, 01:19:28 PM
Mr Lai what are you waiting for?, sack this fool as we still have slim chance of staying up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan87uk on February 25, 2018, 02:17:46 PM
Mr Lai what are you waiting for?, sack this fool as we still have slim chance of staying up.

We're already gone mate, it makes no difference if Lai sack's him now or in May.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wimbledon baggie on February 25, 2018, 02:42:27 PM
Stick him on gardening leave until May, don't give him the pleasure of an early pay off. His contract should have an early termination clause in case of abject failure but we all know it doesn't.

What happens next is all about momentum and next season. Imagine if we keep him and we pick up say 4 more points out the next 10 games. It would be beyond painful.

Squad needs a new voice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on February 25, 2018, 02:48:11 PM
Hope Lai's learned somd lessons about running a football club if he intends to carry on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: albion59 on February 25, 2018, 03:31:33 PM
Stick him on gardening leave until May, don't give him the pleasure of an early pay off. His contract should have an early termination clause in case of abject failure but we all know it doesn't.

What happens next is all about momentum and next season. Imagine if we keep him and we pick up say 4 more points out the next 10 games. It would be beyond painful.

Squad needs a new voice.
The squad don't need a new voice, it needs a new squad!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 25, 2018, 05:43:19 PM
Hope Lai's learned somd lessons about running a football club if he intends to carry on.

I really hope in some way this proves to be the catalyst for Mr. Lai to want to transform our club into a bit of a force to be reckoned with. I've got to have SOME hope in these miserable times.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 25, 2018, 05:53:39 PM
I really hope in some way this proves to be the catalyst for Mr. Lai to want to transform our club into a bit of a force to be reckoned with. I've got to have SOME hope in these miserable times.

I wouldn't bank on that. Seems to me he's bought an "off the shelf product" that doesn't work. I don't think he's got the knowledge to make it work. We just have to hope that Mark Jenkins has (If he hasn't at least he knows a man who has)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on February 25, 2018, 06:29:22 PM
As a purely financial investor as opposed to a hands on owner, I reckon Lai will give us two years to get back up and then walk away if not. In theory we should be able to get back up and for Lai to realise a period for him to establish a premier league branded club. Not sure he's done too much wrong so far but he's coming to an important period of ownership - having to appoint a new leadership team (one not recommended by Peace as Williams was) and to deal with failure. It's always a good time to see what someone is made of when things are going wrong!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie53 on February 25, 2018, 06:54:41 PM
Lai needs to appoint someone like Mendes

It pains me to say it but with Mendes contacts in football it's proved to be a successful formula at the Dingles
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 25, 2018, 08:16:21 PM
Lai needs to appoint someone like Mendes

It pains me to say it but with Mendes contacts in football it's proved to be a successful formula at the Dingles
It hasn't, so far they have acheive bothing other than playing very nice football in the league below us.
They were 14 points clear at one stage , they are now 6, they have reading,Leeds and the vile next......if any team can blow it...
Then they have some big financial issues
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 25, 2018, 08:20:36 PM
It hasn't, so far they have acheive bothing other than playing very nice football in the league below us.
They were 14 points clear at one stage , they are now 6, they have reading,Leeds and the vile next......if any team can blow it...
Then they have some big financial issues
Thanks you have cheered me up no end, with that last paragraph!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on February 25, 2018, 08:30:51 PM
It hasn't, so far they have acheive bothing other than playing very nice football in the league below us.
They were 14 points clear at one stage , they are now 6, they have reading,Leeds and the vile next......if any team can blow it...
Then they have some big financial issues
It'll be interesting to see how the wilfs sidestep ffp next season with Boly on a release clause of €45M to sign him and jota the wonderkid who will be signed on 1st July for surely an equal amount never mind having to upgrade at least 3/4 others that will surely be found out in the prem
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 25, 2018, 08:34:48 PM
It'll be interesting to see how the wilfs sidestep ffp next season with Boly on a release clause of €45M to sign him and jota the wonderkid who will be signed on 1st July for surely an equal amount never mind having to upgrade at least 3/4 others that will surely be found out in the prem


FFP is rarely a problem for the first 2 or 3 seasons for newly promoted teams.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on February 25, 2018, 08:37:11 PM

FFP is rarely a problem for the first 2 or 3 seasons for newly promoted teams.
Agreed but their net spend will surely be well over the £100M mark with high wages for their Portuguese wizz kids
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 25, 2018, 08:39:01 PM
Agreed but their net spend will surely be well over the £100M mark with high wages for their Portuguese wizz kids


Doesn't matter what they spend on fees.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 25, 2018, 08:52:55 PM

Doesn't matter what they spend on fees.

Think you'll find it does, certainly the write down element.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 25, 2018, 09:17:10 PM
Lai needs to appoint someone like Mendes

It pains me to say it but with Mendes contacts in football it's proved to be a successful formula at the Dingles

No he does not, Mendes works for Mendes that will be great on the way up but it will hollow out the club like husk on the way down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 25, 2018, 09:18:57 PM
Think you'll find it does, certainly the write down element.


Unless they qualify for Europe they can spend what they want on transfer fees.


Wages are what is capped by PL FFP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 26, 2018, 08:52:45 AM

Unless they qualify for Europe they can spend what they want on transfer fees.


Wages are what is capped by PL FFP.

The term used in the Premier League Handbook - Section E - Clubs Finance - Short Term Cost Control is "Player Services Costs & Image Contract Payments"

Quote
E.18. If in any of Contract Years 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19, the sum of a Club’s Player Services Costs and Image Contract Payments exceeds £67m, £74m or £81m, respectively, the relevant Club must elect to either: (a) be assessed by the Board on the ‘Prior Year Basis’ (in which case, Rule E.19 applies); or (b) be assessed etc

Not just wages.
If the transfer fee is amortised over the life of the contract then the write down value would be part of the Player Service Costs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on February 26, 2018, 09:09:04 AM
No he does not, Mendes works for Mendes that will be great on the way up but it will hollow out the club like husk on the way down.

I agree with you on that. Lets see how it all unfolds financially next year, but a Mendes situation down at the Albion is most definately not the answer.

Something stinks financially to me......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on February 26, 2018, 09:16:23 AM
We need to keep it simple. Go back to a tried and tested system for identifying, buying and keeping players. When we took on Pulis, we took on his system on letting him have overall control in this area. We've not surprisingly ended up as other clubs with similar systems - Villa, Sunderland to name a couple.

Go back to what worked. Assess whether Hammond is the right man for the role he's in, if not change. Then bolster the scouts and the checks in place before signing players. Also, stop this 'tried and tested' rule for players and managers. The fact they're tried and tested in the premier league usually means tried and failed somewhere else.

First of all we need a chairman though and then a permanent CEO, then assess the other positions. Personally, I'd have a good look at everyone who've been making strategic decisions for a few years now as they simply haven't worked and we relied on a sticking plaster called Pulis over an ever growing wound which was after Ashworth and Hodsgon left.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on February 26, 2018, 09:19:21 AM
It hasn't, so far they have acheive bothing other than playing very nice football in the league below us.
They were 14 points clear at one stage , they are now 6, they have reading,Leeds and the vile next......if any team can blow it...
Then they have some big financial issues

Whilst I love your optimism, just looked and they are 10 clear of 3rd.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Backofthenet on February 26, 2018, 10:53:26 AM
I have to say that I'm not really concerned about other clubs, wherever they are. Short term success is usually just that so enjoy it whilst it lasts. Stability is what most supporters want but that is not seen as successful - just listen to Arsenal fans. We'd love to be in the turmoil they're in.
So we need to build something that we are both proud of and works. That's going to take considerable thought and effort and will require a pretty big clear out to start with.
If our academy is as good as it is believed, that is where the future lies. Bring on good young players, breed some loyalty and if they become 'to good' for us they will move on to fulfil their own ambition. Nothing wrong with that
This may have to take place out of the Premier League but so what. We've all seen it coming with managers and players that don't work, have their own ideas that clearly don't work and an infrastructure that is pretty fragile.
This is now time for our owners to cut their teeth and show they are serious about the club and it's not their equivalent of us having a train set. You can't put a football club in the loft and hope it gains in value, you have to invest properly and set things in place. Yes I realise that it is a business but it's in the entertainment business and whilst the so called big 6 can drift along quite happily raking in cash because they are so called big clubs and world wide people seem to love them (they don't watch the rubbish every week) we need to provide something more tangible so we both entertain and get results. That will eventually bring returns in cash and success.
Look where Leicester were before they won the league. That brought quite a lot of credibility. This season not quite so good but they are now in 7th so for a club that size a good position.
Run properly where could we be? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 26, 2018, 07:26:08 PM
with nothing happening today regards Pardew looks like Lai couldnt give a pooh.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on February 26, 2018, 07:38:11 PM
To be fair no one in China has heard of him but they heard about Fosun and Xai and obviously he couldn't give a rubbish. He needs to learn that if you do don't do what the fans want there going to be unsettled If He doesn't the Sack twonk he has obviously fallen for Williams and Pardew''s Promises.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 26, 2018, 07:44:58 PM
To be fair no one in China has heard of him but they heard about Fosun and Xai and obviously he couldn't give a rubbish. He needs to learn that if you do don't do what the fans want there going to be unsettled If He doesn't the Sack twonk he has obviously fallen for Williams and Pardew''s Promises.


You can't sack the owner mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 26, 2018, 07:47:58 PM

You can't sack the owner mate.

He means sack Pardew?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 26, 2018, 07:50:43 PM
He means sack Pardew?


Haha my bad. Well he'll find Lai amenable to that in about 118 hours.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on February 26, 2018, 08:04:58 PM

Haha my bad. Well he'll find Lai amenable to that in about 118 hours.
118 hours to long
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on February 26, 2018, 09:31:48 PM
The squad don't need a new voice, it needs a new squad!

players i think will look else were at the end of the season
 
Evans, Gibbs, Krychowiak, Phillips, Rodriguez, Rondón, Morrison?
retire McAuley, Barry.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on February 27, 2018, 08:51:31 AM
players i think will look else at the end of the season
 
Evans, Gibbs, Krychowiak, Phillips, Rodriguez, Rondón, Morrison?
retire McAuley, Barry.
Think Jrod Rondon Mozza and Philips will stay the latter for the sole reason this will be his 3rd relegation on his CV and will probably be at his proper level.I would be surprised if a prem club came in for him.in short he's a fcin Jonah
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on February 27, 2018, 06:31:10 PM
Think Jrod Rondon Mozza and Philips will stay the latter for the sole reason this will be his 3rd relegation on his CV and will probably be at his proper level.I would be surprised if a prem club came in for him.in short he's a fcin Jonah

On the Morrison front i think his injury may be more serious than the club is saying.
Has for Jrod & Phillips the cut in wages could be the deciding factor.
The next man in charge has a massive job of rebuilding the club on his hands. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: maccbaggie on February 27, 2018, 10:05:43 PM
Think Jrod Rondon Mozza and Philips will stay the latter for the sole reason this will be his 3rd relegation on his CV and will probably be at his proper level.I would be surprised if a prem club came in for him.in short he's a fcin Jonah
No chance Rondon will stay - he'll have plenty of suitors.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on February 27, 2018, 10:21:17 PM
No chance Rondon will stay - he'll have plenty of suitors.

Which goal hungry ambitious clubs did you have in mind?  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on February 27, 2018, 10:25:30 PM
Do you know,I have a feeling that rondon might stay with us and I think he would be a force in the championship.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 27, 2018, 10:32:07 PM
Do you know,I have a feeling that rondon might stay with us and I think he would be a force in the championship.

Not a hope in hell. He will be in huge demand
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on February 27, 2018, 10:47:37 PM
Not a hope in hell. He will be in huge demand
Totally agree. Other than the top 6 most of them
A bit random but I was talking to an Everton fan today at work they really rate him up there
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on February 27, 2018, 11:01:28 PM
Will they all be queuing up to sign a striker that doesn't score,really?
He'll show allegiance to us and stay.
How much is he worth?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 27, 2018, 11:04:01 PM
Not to mention a host of European clubs. He's worth between 25 and 35 million based on the cost of Slimani.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on February 27, 2018, 11:07:36 PM
35 million really?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: vrabbit on February 27, 2018, 11:10:48 PM
This discussion probably needs to go in the Rondon thread. The narrative can easily be turned on Rondon's lack of scoring by pointing out the lack of support he received while playing for TP and the mess the club is now that they're heading for relegation. Couple that with his scoring record pre-WBA and I too think many clubs willl come asking. He'll still be 28 going into next season so I assume he wants some more time at a top-level league before he settles for the Championship.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 27, 2018, 11:16:14 PM
Will they all be queuing up to sign a striker that doesn't score,really?
He'll show allegiance to us and stay.
How much is he worth?
with the fact we're relegated, i think 15-18 million isn't an unrealistic amount. He can easily get a good move to Spain or Germany.

we'd recoup what we spent of that I have little doubt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 28, 2018, 10:31:22 AM
Sorry, I seem to be in the wrong room. I thought this was the Guochuan Lai room?  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on February 28, 2018, 11:30:40 AM
I think when we go down Lai will go with a different approach to what a lot of us fans would like.

It would seem now is the time to reassess where we are at, put a new structure in place and create an identity like we have had previous, what we have now has stopped working, we are bottom of the league because we are by far the worst team in the league, not back luck, no injustices, as it stands we are the worst.

However, us fans dont have £150m + investment riding on the club, so although i would like to see the above structure and identity created, i think Mr Lai will view it different.

I expect us to be looking at Mick McCarthy, Neil Warnock, Steve Bruce types (not necessarily those) but people of that ilk, people who get you out the championship.

The football isnt great and there is no long term plan, its all about that season and i think we will end up with players like Cameron Jerome, Grant Leadbitter, Dave Nugent, etc (again, not necessarily those) but players who do well in the champ but cant do it in the premier league, championship journeymen.

I think Lai will just want us back on the gravy train, just by getting back there the rewards are great, should we get back in the premier league i imagine the manager will then be given a few months, struggling by November, sack them, bring in a Moyes, Pardew, Pulis, etc (again, not necessarily those) hope they keep you up and then repeat again for future seasons.

I initially thought Lai would be worried about empty seats, entertainment, etc because of the 'brand' but as somebody on the radio recently, just having a premier league football team link in the Far East is a huge thing, they are fanatical anyway so all the stuff like crowds, style of football, etc isnt really an issue, its premier league or nothing for an investor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on February 28, 2018, 11:51:36 AM
I guess time will tell. I don’t see Lai as being quite as brutal to be honest but his sacking of Williams suggests he felt we took an undue risk in getting rid of Pulis and hiring Pardew. In his position , you can certainly see why he thinks that looking at Pulis’ results vs Pardew’s results (e.g. points per game for us).

I think we’ll see a pragmatic manager, one who it’s perceived can get results and I don’t think Lai or the club will be overly concerned with style , crowds or supporter’ a wishes so in that respect I agree with Albion79. This would be no different to the last few years anyway. Entertaining players cost a lot of money and can be unpredictable after all. I’ve never been against us being pragmatic , it was just that it seemed Pulis was being extreme in his approach to the point of depressing us. Other managers are similarly pragmatic e.g. Roy, Dyche, Martin O’Neill without being as defensively ‘extreme’ as Pulis.

Personally think we could see most of the squad stay except the obvious ones and maybe one or two who are sought after and good fees are offered.  This should mean we have a decent chance of getting back up.

We clearly need big changes , particularly at the top of the club, however, I hope Lai doesn’t pull everything apart which could do more harm in the long run. I suppose it’s his club now to do with what he wants.........?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on February 28, 2018, 06:42:30 PM
Not to mention a host of European clubs. He's worth between 25 and 35 million based on the cost of Slimani.

Can’t get my head around why anyone would be interested in paying big money for a striker who doesn’t score many, can’t control the ball and doesn’t understand the offside rule. Be interesting to see what actually happens in the summer presuming were relegated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: eaststandbaggie on March 01, 2018, 08:05:06 AM
Having worked in China there are only 2 important things

FACE.  And. PROFIT

In the championship they can achieve both

FACE when we win the Champions title
PROFIT when we get rid of the money grabbers and we had greatly reduced wage bill
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 01, 2018, 10:33:16 AM
Having worked in China there are only 2 important things

FACE.  And. PROFIT

In the championship they can achieve both

FACE when we win the Champions title
PROFIT when we get rid of the money grabbers and we had greatly reduced wage bill
not with this lot , league one here we come
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 01, 2018, 12:59:54 PM
Rondon has stayed fit despite being played up front on his own for long periods, he has stretched defences, he is capable of scoring goals at prem level, put hin in an Everton / Leicester team and he will thrive. = Gone !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 01, 2018, 03:42:33 PM
Looks like Mr lai has more than WBA to be fretting about, Palm are struggling which cannot be good for us, can it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on March 01, 2018, 03:49:39 PM
I read an article which was saying the Chinese economy is set to crash similar to how the US did in 2008, but worse. If that happens I don't want to think about what happens to us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 01, 2018, 03:57:26 PM
I read an article which was saying the Chinese economy is set to crash similar to how the US did in 2008, but worse. If that happens I don't want to think about what happens to us
China's Economy is growing at 6.9%, suggests a bubble, BUT its been running at / near that for a long, long time, they started at such a low base that they should sustain growth for a while IMO. When things do go wrong though everyone needs to watch out, its an awful lot of people to keep under control when they start to lose jobs / food! There are still 100's of millions living day to day out there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on March 03, 2018, 06:46:55 PM
Would you please do the decent think mr Lai and Fire pardew
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slate on March 03, 2018, 08:05:34 PM
Ok... so now that we are certainly heading towards the Championship, what are the predicted next steps for Lai?

He bought the club for £175 million. What's it worth next season as a standalone company?

He didn't buy us for vanity. It was an investment that he could promotionally couple with his Palm business in China. No Premier league football = limited Promo revenue in his home market, again devaluing his investment.

Does he look to sell or over-invest more capital in order to try for an immediate return?

Answers on a postcard...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 03, 2018, 08:11:02 PM
Ok... so now that we are certainly heading towards the Championship, what are the predicted next steps for Lai?

He bought the club for £175 million. What's it worth next season as a standalone company?

He didn't buy us for vanity. It was an investment that he could promotionally couple with his Palm business in China. No Premier league football = limited Promo revenue in his home market, again devaluing his investment.

Does he look to sell or over-invest more capital in order to try for an immediate return?

Answers on a postcard...


Looks to get out with a minimal loss asap in my opinion. Whether that tallies with Chinese business ethics I have no idea.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on March 03, 2018, 08:12:48 PM
Ok... so now that we are certainly heading towards the Championship, what are the predicted next steps for Lai?

He bought the club for £175 million. What's it worth next season as a standalone company?

He didn't buy us for vanity. It was an investment that he could promotionally couple with his Palm business in China. No Premier league football = limited Promo revenue in his home market, again devaluing his investment.

Does he look to sell or over-invest more capital in order to try for an immediate return?

Answers on a postcard...

I’d like to think he will invest heavily to secure an immediate return, unfortunately what I believe is more likely is for him to minimise his losses.

Sell everything of any worth and bank the parachute payments.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slate on March 03, 2018, 08:16:35 PM
I think you're both probably right. The old adage of don't start a business that you have no experience in seems to fall true here.

I think we may have seen the last of the free scarves and beer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boot2006 on March 03, 2018, 08:17:41 PM
I think he'll have one go at trying to get us back in the premier.  He'll have to gamble and spend some cash, but the loss on us will be massive.  I'd have one possibly two seasons at trying to get back in the prem before throwing in the towel.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slate on March 03, 2018, 08:20:47 PM
I think he'll have one go at trying to get us back in the premier.  He'll have to gamble and spend some cash, but the loss on us will be massive.  I'd have one possibly two seasons at trying to get back in the prem before throwing in the towel.

If I was Lai I would tell Dan Ashworth to name his salary.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on March 03, 2018, 08:29:13 PM
Was having this conversation the other day, have a very weird feeling that Peace will buy the club back for less than he sold it at some point next year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slate on March 03, 2018, 08:30:49 PM
Was having this conversation the other day, have a very weird feeling that Peace will buy the club back for less than he sold it at some point next year.

Haha, I didn't even see that plot twist! Genius.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boot2006 on March 03, 2018, 08:33:35 PM
Was having this conversation the other day, have a very weird feeling that Peace will buy the club back for less than he sold it at some point next year.

Was talking with my Dad earlier.  He said exactly the same thing.  I think peace is a wise man though personally and will stay well away.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boot2006 on March 03, 2018, 08:35:25 PM
If I was Lai I would tell Dan Ashworth to name his salary.

Me too but unfortunately Dan Ashworth is on to bigger and better things.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie_liam on March 03, 2018, 08:36:03 PM
If I was Lai I would tell Dan Ashworth to name his salary.


I doubt he even knows who dan ashworth is..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on March 03, 2018, 08:36:41 PM
Was talking with my Dad earlier.  He said exactly the same thing.  I think peace is a wise man though personally and will stay well away.

He’s also a business man. Likelyhood is its going to get worse before it gets better at this club, Lai is going into unknown territory with the championship.

I imagine at one point he will just look at ‘a way out’ Peace could offer him that at a cheaper price and also come back as the ‘saviour.’
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alwaysbilly on March 03, 2018, 08:37:45 PM
Was having this conversation the other day, have a very weird feeling that Peace will buy the club back for less than he sold it at some point next year.
Said exactly that over some beers last night - can see it coming
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on March 03, 2018, 08:40:07 PM
Was having this conversation the other day, have a very weird feeling that Peace will buy the club back for less than he sold it at some point next year.

Cannot see that happening, Peace secured maximum return for minimum outlay.

He is a businessman first and foremost, he will realise it would be almost impossible to repeat.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: silver surfer on March 03, 2018, 08:45:09 PM
He could come back as chairman he doesn’t have to buy it back
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on March 03, 2018, 08:47:54 PM
He could come back as chairman he doesn’t have to buy it back
Wouldn't surprise me if this happened
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alwaysbilly on March 03, 2018, 08:48:28 PM
Cannot see that happening, Peace secured maximum return for minimum outlay.

He is a businessman first and foremost, he will realise it would be almost impossible to repeat.
Also a fan. Like some of us he might fear a double drop and possibly Lai leaving us in a mess similar to before Megson took over.
I remember him saying we are a top half championship club in today’s football - looks like very soon we might all be hoping for that....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on March 03, 2018, 08:49:07 PM
2 of the top 4 in the Championship are Chinese owned. I think he'll stay and want to come straight back up.
If we get the right manager, chairman and scouts we have a great chance.
After the dirge of Pulis, I'm hoping for a new dawn.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 03, 2018, 08:55:16 PM
Totally agree with you setee.
Salo was upset today,I think he's a decent human being and do you know what,I think hell stay and hit 20 goals next season,also I don't think that Mr.lai won't need to spend,we have players to get rid of for good money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on March 12, 2018, 07:52:24 AM
If anyone heard the paper review on talk sport this morning the journalist seemed to think he's looking to sell, that's why pardew is still here as he wont sack him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on March 13, 2018, 07:25:24 AM
If anyone heard the paper review on talk sport this morning the journalist seemed to think he's looking to sell, that's why pardew is still here as he wont sack him.

The only reason Pardew is still here is because the board have admitted defeat and know we are destined for the championship. He has a break up clause in the contract that states when we are officially relegated we can sack him without paying him any money towards compensation. This is probably the only smart move the club have made all season
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wimbledon baggie on March 13, 2018, 10:29:18 AM
The only reason Pardew is still here is because the board have admitted defeat and know we are destined for the championship. He has a break up clause in the contract that states when we are officially relegated we can sack him without paying him any money towards compensation. This is probably the only smart move the club have made all season

So Pardew is going to be wheeled out for 8 more press conferences?? They really are rubbing his nose in it which he richly deserves.

He should be banished on garden leave and let the 'Celtic' mob run the show for 8 games.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 13, 2018, 12:06:56 PM
can not see him selling as he rebuffed bid by American consortium in summer, believe bid was below what he paid for club. lucky to get 50 million for a championship team, thats him flushing a 100 million down the bog which wont happen, has to push the boat out for two seasons to get back in prem to realise his investment, if this isnt attained then i fear for club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on March 13, 2018, 12:43:40 PM
Is Lai actually risking his own money though? The way I understand things is that he bought us using cash from an 'investment arm', which may actually mean a loan from the Chinese Government in reality.....who may want to cut their losses and walk away. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on March 13, 2018, 01:02:59 PM
The only reason Pardew is still here is because the board have admitted defeat and know we are destined for the championship. He has a break up clause in the contract that states when we are officially relegated we can sack him without paying him any money towards compensation. This is probably the only smart move the club have made all season

Does that mean we still have to pay the balance of his 2 year contract but not the bonus for keeping us up ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on March 13, 2018, 01:59:25 PM
According to another forum, Li Piyue will move from a directors role to become the new chairman. Apparently sources in China confirm but I haven’t found any yet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 13, 2018, 02:50:49 PM
Who is Li,?
What skills/ knowledge etc does he bring to the party?
Does he speak English?
Will he communicate with the fans?
What does he know about English football etc?
Anybody know anything?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on March 13, 2018, 02:56:59 PM
Who is Li,?
What skills/ knowledge etc does he bring to the party?
Does he speak English?
Will he communicate with the fans?
What does he know about English football etc?
Anybody know anything?
Already on the board as Lai's UK eyes and ears , been with us a fair while.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on March 13, 2018, 03:42:43 PM
Who is Li,?
What skills/ knowledge etc does he bring to the party?
Does he speak English?
Will he communicate with the fans?
What does he know about English football etc?
Anybody know anything?
the only thing I can find is what WBA have on their website
https://www.wba.co.uk/club/board-of-directors/li-piyue/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 13, 2018, 05:15:09 PM
It hasn't been confirmed anywhere that I'm aware of, probably some self loving, horny handed little jizz bag with a fake tw@tter account.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 13, 2018, 06:28:29 PM
Who is Li,?
What skills/ knowledge etc does he bring to the party?
Does he speak English?
Will he communicate with the fans?
What does he know about English football etc?
Anybody know anything?

His full name is Yom In Li, and he lives here somewhere between Halesowen and Cradley Heath :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 13, 2018, 06:41:06 PM
 That's interesting mate,thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 13, 2018, 06:49:33 PM
His full name is Yom In Li, and he lives here somewhere between Halesowen and Cradley Heath :)

Has he got a brother? I knew a Wem In Li who lives down that way somewhere.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wimbledon baggie on March 13, 2018, 07:37:15 PM
Who is Li,?
What skills/ knowledge etc does he bring to the party?
Does he speak English?
Will he communicate with the fans?
What does he know about English football etc?
Anybody know anything?

He does a cracking Peking duck. ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on March 13, 2018, 09:07:43 PM
He does a cracking Peking duck. ;D
.    Mock all you want but he can't do no worse than the outgoing chairman Williams
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 13, 2018, 09:19:24 PM
Mock all you want but he can't do no worse than the outgoing chairman Williams

Fortune cookie say don't tempt fate.........  :-X .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 13, 2018, 09:31:47 PM
Palm eco town group has been having a real tough time in the markets and WBAFC is small beer in comparison, given that the board has just had group reports including Mark Jenkins’ I think there will be a period of analysis and planning before any actions are implemented. I also expect that the Chinese eyes and ears on the board will have been flabbergasted at how British “football men “ run a business.
Radical change is coming for sure, not as quick as we would like as there are bigger fish to fry and one that no the Chinese do not do is knee jerk on big decisions, but the changes are coming of that we can be sure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on March 13, 2018, 10:16:26 PM
It's the unknown isn't it? Relegation is not so much a fear really... it's where Guochuan takes us.

We know nothing of him and the big fear is that it might be another Venky's scenario. But who knows? This thing really could go either way.

I think I'm clutching at straws a bit, but I'm hopeful that Mr Lai will want to transform us into a proper contender...


It's the hope that kills you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 14, 2018, 12:25:55 PM
being reported that Albion will have a strict budget for next season, translation owner got sod all money. Peace has really sold us a pup well done hope you sleep well at night you git.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 14, 2018, 12:30:24 PM
Already on the board as Lai's UK eyes and ears , been with us a fair while.
so mr tony has taken him for a mug as well at least were in save hands, not
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on March 14, 2018, 01:45:37 PM
nice to see your glass half full approach paul is serving you well as usual  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 14, 2018, 02:47:04 PM
nice to see your glass half full approach paul is serving you well as usual  ;D
mate glass is all but empty watching this carry on  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on March 16, 2018, 09:47:22 AM
We should be selling quite a few players. If we can get good money in for them , then we should be able to reinvest it all and improve the squad (shouldn't in theory be too difficult based on this current bunch).

I don't see what we'll achieve chucking money around - didn't get us far the past couple of years for the likes of JRod, Burke, Livermore and arguably our best signings the past 10 years have been some of the cheapest - Olsson, Yacob, Mulumbu, Odemwingie, Brunt, Morrison, Phillips - the list goes on!

I want quality to come in and players who care - Tarkowski is a great example at Burnley for what happens if you don't let an old school British manager push you into spunking millions on 'tried and trusted' players!

I'd be happy going back to the old approach but would doubt Hammond can pull it off based on what he's done so far?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 16, 2018, 11:50:40 AM
We should be selling quite a few players. If we can get good money in for them , then we should be able to reinvest it all and improve the squad (shouldn't in theory be too difficult based on this current bunch).

I don't see what we'll achieve chucking money around - didn't get us far the past couple of years for the likes of JRod, Burke, Livermore and arguably our best signings the past 10 years have been some of the cheapest - Olsson, Yacob, Mulumbu, Odemwingie, Brunt, Morrison, Phillips - the list goes on!

I want quality to come in and players who care - Tarkowski is a great example at Burnley for what happens if you don't let an old school British manager push you into spunking millions on 'tried and trusted' players!

I'd be happy going back to the old approach but would doubt Hammond can pull it off based on what he's done so far?

I seem to remember an old school British manager named Tony Pulis tried to sign James Tarkowski for the Albion.

However, a younger old schoolish British type manager by the name of Sean Dyche didn't want to play ball.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on March 16, 2018, 11:55:51 AM
I seem to remember an old school British manager named Tony Pulis tried to sign James Tarkowski for the Albion.

However, a younger old schoolish British type manager by the name of Sean Dyche didn't want to play ball.

Nothing against old school British managers when they sign quality players e.g. Roy didn't do too badly and I'd put him the same bracket. I'm referring to some managers signing serial 'failures' in the premier league like Livermore for e.g. In the past, we were great at getting value from the types of players Burnley, Huddersfield, Brighton, Watford...etc etc are now getting value from. It's very clear that our policy changed and we now have poorer players - certainly attitude wise than we've had since we last had a similar policy (under Robson in 2006)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 16, 2018, 12:02:26 PM
Nothing against old school British managers when they sign quality players e.g. Roy didn't do too badly and I'd put him the same bracket. I'm referring to some managers signing serial 'failures' in the premier league like Livermore for e.g. In the past, we were great at getting value from the types of players Burnley, Huddersfield, Brighton, Watford...etc etc are now getting value from. It's very clear that our policy changed and we now have poorer players - certainly attitude wise than we've had since we last had a similar policy (under Robson in 2006)

Watford are an interesting model, my limited knowledge is that the owners have clubs in other leagues and players can move within the group, nice way to move funds to where its "needed".
They also seem to be fairly adept at finding talent in south america. ok they haven't set the world on fire, but they are a smaller club than us and will be looking down at us next season. There are other ways than the traditional british model to run football clubs successfully !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 16, 2018, 12:02:50 PM
Nothing against old school British managers when they sign quality players e.g. Roy didn't do too badly and I'd put him the same bracket. I'm referring to some managers signing serial 'failures' in the premier league like Livermore for e.g. In the past, we were great at getting value from the types of players Burnley, Huddersfield, Brighton, Watford...etc etc are now getting value from. It's very clear that our policy changed and we now have poorer players - certainly attitude wise than we've had since we last had a similar policy (under Robson in 2006)

I've nothing against old school managers either per se although a new face might be refreshing once in a while.

And I agree regarding player recruitment and attitude.

Established is fine so long as it's within budget and not stale.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 17, 2018, 06:08:32 PM
any chance you could get shot of this fool ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on March 17, 2018, 06:49:50 PM
any chance you could get shot of this fool ???

 Actually feel sorry for him. He was sold a pup and JP has got his money and rowed off into the sunset.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on March 17, 2018, 07:18:36 PM
Actually feel sorry for him. He was sold a pup and JP has got his money and rowed off into the sunset.

I wouldn't feel to sorry for him the bloke is a business man who is worth billions. He knew what he was getting into and he was clearly willing to part with the 200 odd million it cost to buy us. Whether he knew just how difficult it was going to be or what the task would throw up is a different story.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 17, 2018, 07:24:36 PM
How was he sold a pup?
Crazy assessment mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boot2006 on March 17, 2018, 07:25:01 PM
I don't feel sorry for him at all.  He's the head of a failing organisation and should take some blame.  Our future is very uncertain we could be in a terrible position depending on what he choses to do financially.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie_liam on March 17, 2018, 07:35:31 PM
Having a relegated football club will tarnish his reputation.. to build that back up he simply has to spend money next season to get us back up ASAP! And not penny pinch like I expect!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 17, 2018, 07:49:41 PM
Having a relegated football club will tarnish his reputation.. to build that back up he simply has to spend money next season to get us back up ASAP! And not penny pinch like I expect!
reports of strict budget equals no money
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on March 17, 2018, 07:50:01 PM
Having a relegated football club will tarnish his reputation.. to build that back up he simply has to spend money next season to get us back up ASAP! And not penny pinch like I expect!

I'm sure he will just wipe his tears away with the billions of pounds he has.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie_liam on March 17, 2018, 09:19:27 PM
I'm sure he will just wipe his tears away with the billions of pounds he has.

If that’s the case, why would you not risk not spending £2m on getting rid of a failure of a manager to try and keep all the PL money we’re going to lose next year?
I know in any walk of life £2m is a lot of money, and it’s easy to say when it’s not your own money, but... £2m isn’t a lot when you have billions
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on March 17, 2018, 10:29:23 PM
Has he got a brother? I knew a Wem In Li who lives down that way somewhere.
New religious representative ho li fuk
New boxing coach to help fitness huw it chow
And Pardew in mandarin is pronounced yow wo win
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on March 17, 2018, 10:53:01 PM
hands up who believes all the parachute money will end up in the managers hand whoever that may be? #skinflintalbion some things never change - some pockets will be bulging - inebriated off!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on March 19, 2018, 10:26:05 PM
I fear that the root of the problem lies in China. To paraphrase King Henry II, ‘Will nobody rid us of this meddlesome chinaman’? The increasing presence of Chinese influence in Western culture is, in my opinion, to be much regretted. They are an authoritarian, alien culture and as far as WBA is concerned, of no benefit whatsoever. It is now clear that Peace didn’t really care for the Club, only concerned about making himself a very rich man. We are saddled with this wretched chinaman for the foreseeable future and I will be amazed if we don’t sink even further. I sincerely hope my fears are proved groundless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 19, 2018, 10:49:01 PM
Hey westie,calling the chairman a wretched chinaman is getting too personal for my liking.
I'm sure as a businessman he won't want to fail.
Give him a chance eh?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on March 19, 2018, 10:56:02 PM
I would like to be proven wrong, but I don’t think that he cares one iota for us, the supporters, or that he knows anything about football. He wants a football club? He should go and buy one in China. If we want WBA to prosper again, we need someone who has at least some feeling for the Club. Liver Aggie, you may well disagree with me but I believe Chinese investment in this country is not particularly in our interests, long term, hence I want him gone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 19, 2018, 11:13:49 PM
I would like to be proven wrong, but I don’t think that he cares one iota for us, the supporters, or that he knows anything about football. He wants a football club? He should go and buy one in China. If we want WBA to prosper again, we need someone who has at least some feeling for the Club. Liver Aggie, you may well disagree with me but I believe Chinese investment in this country is not particularly in our interests, long term, hence I want him gone.

Not sure the dingle & villa fans would agree with you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 20, 2018, 11:24:55 AM
Not sure the dingle & villa fans would agree with you.

I think you'll find the west has influenced Chinese culture more in the last 30 years than the previous 3000.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 20, 2018, 12:06:24 PM
I think you'll find the west has influenced Chinese culture more in the last 30 years than the previous 3000.

I was referring to their respective positions in the Football League.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 20, 2018, 12:14:32 PM
I was referring to their respective positions in the Football League.

Sorry replied to your post and should have been to Westie, will correct!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 31, 2018, 07:06:46 PM
 :really worried about next season if this bloke couldn't come up with money to pay coach of
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 12, 2018, 11:06:14 AM
Based on everything thing that has leaked out of the club and the subsequent departures from the club it is pretty safe to say if Lai had this season again he'd have got rid of the DoF, the Chairman and the Chief Exec before he'd consider removing Pulis.


It's been a very expensive lesson for him, one we can only hope he's learned from moving forward towards this rebuild.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on April 12, 2018, 11:19:00 AM
Not to sound flippant but it's easy to get rid of people. The true test of Lai's commitment to us will be how he re-structures the top of the club now i.e. with a long term or short term focus? In reality we probably need both views of course but we definitely need to stop the overly short term focus which has got us into the current mess we're in (began with Peace looking for short term fixes to stay up at all costs to get a sale in my opinion) and living season by season at the expense of talented youngsters and bringing in stale players on high wages.



 

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 12, 2018, 11:26:11 AM
Not to sound flippant but it's easy to get rid of people. The true test of Lai's commitment to us will be how he re-structures the top of the club now i.e. with a long term or short term focus? In reality we probably need both views of course but we definitely need to stop the overly short term focus which has got us into the current mess we're in (began with Peace looking for short term fixes to stay up at all costs to get a sale in my opinion) and living season by season at the expense of talented youngsters and bringing in stale players on high wages.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 12, 2018, 11:28:10 AM
Not to sound flippant but it's easy to get rid of people. The true test of Lai's commitment to us will be how he re-structures the top of the club now i.e. with a long term or short term focus? In reality we probably need both views of course but we definitely need to stop the overly short term focus which has got us into the current mess we're in (began with Peace looking for short term fixes to stay up at all costs to get a sale in my opinion) and living season by season at the expense of talented youngsters and bringing in stale players on high wages.

I have been saying this all along. He could not afford to have the club relegated as it would cost him massively - thus Pulis.

I cannot believe some want JP back!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: albion59 on April 12, 2018, 02:49:55 PM
I have been saying this all along. He could not afford to have the club relegated as it would cost him massively - thus Pulis.

I cannot believe some want him back!!!
I can't believe some people think Lai had no say in the sacking of Pulis, it's is club!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 12, 2018, 03:06:49 PM
I can't believe some people think Lai had no say in the sacking of Pulis, it's is club!!

If you read it carefully 59, I was referring to the 'wonderful' Jeremy Peace, because he is the one who employed Pulis.

You right though, Lai did sack him.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on April 12, 2018, 04:44:31 PM
I think he was persuaded too by Hammond. who could see the way the fans were reacting/ plans were not working.
Now he is going for wholesale change having been let down by old fashioned thinking and so called experts at the Club. Good luck to all of us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on April 12, 2018, 05:36:48 PM
Well done Mr.lai, just what was needed a good clear out and hit the ground running as soon as this season is over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 12, 2018, 05:55:16 PM
Keep getting rid of the deadwood including many of the footballers and making inspirational appointments Mr Lai and you might get me to come back home and away
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on April 12, 2018, 07:42:30 PM
Mr Lai seems to be surrounding himself with people of his own choosing. Here's to a brighter future.Bong Bong
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 13, 2018, 06:47:22 AM
Mr Lai seems to be surrounding himself with people of his own choosing. Here's to a brighter future.Bong Bong

 No wonder were are the highest ground in England!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on April 13, 2018, 08:10:31 AM
Mr Lai seems to be surrounding himself with people of his own choosing. Here's to a brighter future.Bong Bong

Lets hope Jay Rodriguez doesn't read these posts  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on April 13, 2018, 08:46:30 AM
Mr Lai has done everything we could've asked of him.

He was loyal to the old guard Pulis, Williams, Hammond etc until breaking point. He could've come into the club and just got rid of everybody straight away and done his own thing but he didn't he showed good loyalty.

I would've liked Pulis sacked at the end of last season but Lai stayed with him and backed him. Only after a very long run of bad results and a clear decline did he sack Pulis. Lai then trusted people to choose a new head coach. It wasn't his fault they chose the hapless Pardew.

Lai's patience it seems has finally snapped and he's got rid of the lot. Not just one here and there scapegoated to carry the can, no all the key people have been removed. He's done it properly.

What he is doing now is absolutely what the club needs. He is bringing in his own men in important positions within the club with a clear collective directive of how the club moves forward.

It is very refreshing to learn that Lai wants to play football, he wants the club evolve into one that has a clear idea of how the team is set up to play based on playing front foot football and scoring goals. This at the stage we are is a form of ambition and we've seen precious little of that.

Although this has been a rubbish season to say the least it could be that in a few years time we look back and think this was what the club needed a step back, a relegation, to get rid of the dead wood, create a new footballing philosophy  that has taken the club on to another level. Lets hope so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 13, 2018, 10:32:41 AM
Hope he continues with clear out of playing staff, suggest HRK followed by Barry
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 13, 2018, 10:49:38 AM
Mr Lai has done everything we could've asked of him.

He was loyal to the old guard Pulis, Williams, Hammond etc until breaking point. He could've come into the club and just got rid of everybody straight away and done his own thing but he didn't he showed good loyalty.

I would've liked Pulis sacked at the end of last season but Lai stayed with him and backed him. Only after a very long run of bad results and a clear decline did he sack Pulis. Lai then trusted people to choose a new head coach. It wasn't his fault they chose the hapless Pardew.

Lai's patience it seems has finally snapped and he's got rid of the lot. Not just one here and there scapegoated to carry the can, no all the key people have been removed. He's done it properly.

What he is doing now is absolutely what the club needs. He is bringing in his own men in important positions within the club with a clear collective directive of how the club moves forward.

It is very refreshing to learn that Lai wants to play football, he wants the club evolve into one that has a clear idea of how the team is set up to play based on playing front foot football and scoring goals. This at the stage we are is a form of ambition and we've seen precious little of that.

Although this has been a rubbish season to say the least it could be that in a few years time we look back and think this was what the club needed a step back, a relegation, to get rid of the dead wood, create a new footballing philosophy  that has taken the club on to another level. Lets hope so.

On the other hand it could be suggested he fiddled while Rome burned. Couldn't agree more regarding the Pard' though, and I'm still astonished he was ever appointed. As for Carver the less said the better. Lai was very, very badly let down by his board. Whichever way I look at things they came across as weak. Weak of mind and consequently weak of choice, devoid of imagination and completely lacking in inspiration. They were clearly sucked in by both Pulis's never been relegated tag and a smooth line in talking from Kid Chocolate at the interview stage. That or they were in a panic following a period of complacency and inertia.

Hammond is a strange one too. For someone who was touted with an ear to the ground in terms of untapped talent and new ideas, on the surface he also appears to have been weak in terms of recommendations and internal politics. If he felt undermined by Pulis he should have gone to Williams and Goodman to express his concerns. If he did and they ignored him in favour of Pulis's reputed stubbornness, were I in his shoes I would have resigned. Team work and give and take are fine and dandy, but compromise only gets you so far. Until recently his stock within the game would have remained pretty decent. From the outside looking in it's highly questionable now.

And we do indeed need a new approach to break from the atrophy which had taken hold from the top down. However, although I'm in favour of the clean sweep approach I just hope Lai does indeed have a fully coherent and joined up plan. Otherwise, wim f***** chap.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on April 13, 2018, 10:49:55 AM
I think Lai has to take a bit of the blame. He let things get out of hand and should have had his fingerprints all over the club. He just forked our nearly £200m.

Got serious worries about where we are going as a football club.

Out Italian friend is being paid a fortune for 6 months work . Consultants don’t care do they.

Managerial choice will be interesting
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on April 13, 2018, 11:32:54 AM
Mr Lai has done everything we could've asked of him.

He was loyal to the old guard Pulis, Williams, Hammond etc until breaking point. He could've come into the club and just got rid of everybody straight away and done his own thing but he didn't he showed good loyalty.

I would've liked Pulis sacked at the end of last season but Lai stayed with him and backed him. Only after a very long run of bad results and a clear decline did he sack Pulis. Lai then trusted people to choose a new head coach. It wasn't his fault they chose the hapless Pardew.

Lai's patience it seems has finally snapped and he's got rid of the lot. Not just one here and there scapegoated to carry the can, no all the key people have been removed. He's done it properly.

What he is doing now is absolutely what the club needs. He is bringing in his own men in important positions within the club with a clear collective directive of how the club moves forward.

It is very refreshing to learn that Lai wants to play football, he wants the club evolve into one that has a clear idea of how the team is set up to play based on playing front foot football and scoring goals. This at the stage we are is a form of ambition and we've seen precious little of that.

Although this has been a rubbish season to say the least it could be that in a few years time we look back and think this was what the club needed a step back, a relegation, to get rid of the dead wood, create a new footballing philosophy  that has taken the club on to another level. Lets hope so.
Makes sense to me.
When you are in the Prem, the priority is to stay there and one tried and tested formula to do that is to pack the defence and grind out 40 points. On paper we had the ideal bloke for that in Pulis, unfortunately he lost his touch, and failed, despite the spending. I think Pardew was championd by Hammond and that was a complete debacle culminating in them both getting binned.

The Championship however, is a different animal, you need 80+ points to get promoted and you can't grind that playing not to lose. I hope Lai has recognised this and is going gung ho. If we can put together a team that gets forward and tries to outscore the opposition, then we could have a very exciting season. We should be at the top of the food chain, in terms of transfers, with our outgoings and parachute payments, so why not go all guns blazing?

Will it work? Who knows but, after the last few seasons, it will be like stepping off the teacups and boarding the Big One!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 13, 2018, 11:43:54 AM
Makes sense to me.
When you are in the Prem, the priority is to stay there and one tried and tested formula to do that is to pack the defence and grind out 40 points. On paper we had the ideal bloke for that in Pulis, unfortunately he lost his touch, and failed, despite the spending. I think Pardew was championd by Hammond and that was a complete debacle culminating in them both getting binned.

The Championship however, is a different animal, you need 80+ points to get promoted and you can't grind that playing not to lose. I hope Lai has recognised this and is going gung ho. If we can put together a team that gets forward and tries to outscore the opposition, then we could have a very exciting season. We should be at the top of the food chain, in terms of transfers, with our outgoings and parachute payments, so why not go all guns blazing?

Will it work? Who knows but, after the last few seasons, it will be like stepping off the teacups and boarding the Big One!

Tony Pulis, Steve Bruce, Neil Warnock and dare I say it Sir Gary Megson along with a few others want a word with you  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on April 13, 2018, 12:07:21 PM
Tony Pulis, Steve Bruce, Neil Warnock and dare I say it Sir Gary Megson along with a few others want a word with you  ;D  ;) .
I'll give you Bruce (3) an Warnock (2) but Pulis and Megson have only done it once.  :)
Could also be argued that Pulis stumbled across his magic formula of turgid, anti-football once he reached the Prem.
I say "Win it like Brazil" should be our new mantra!
I'm going for a lie down now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smosher34 on April 13, 2018, 01:31:09 PM
Does anyone really think Lai is daft . You dont get to be worth what he is being an idiot . He was letting the club run itself by them already now it hasnt worked he is clearing the dead wood . I no we are going down but things do seem to be looking up some now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 13, 2018, 01:35:25 PM
I'll give you Bruce (3) an Warnock (2) but Pulis and Megson have only done it once.  :)
Could also be argued that Pulis stumbled across his magic formula of turgid, anti-football once he reached the Prem.
I say "Win it like Brazil" should be our new mantra!
I'm going for a lie down now.

Sir Gary Megson would almost definitely want a word now  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on April 13, 2018, 01:43:12 PM
Sir Gary Megson would almost definitely want a word now  ;) .
oops  :-[ Got carried away with my stats and forgot that that statement is like saying there's only been one Big Bang!
Sorry Gary
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 13, 2018, 08:42:48 PM
Mr Lai seems to be surrounding himself with people of his own choosing. Here's to a brighter future.Bong Bong
Fed up of himAccusing us of Racism after Big Cyrille died
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on April 13, 2018, 08:44:03 PM
Fed up of himAccusing us of Racism after Big Cyrille died

Think it's just a typo of "boing boing"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 15, 2018, 06:52:30 PM
Anyone just hear an Albion fan on 5 live say Lai is the fifth richest man in the world, what's he smoking
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 15, 2018, 06:54:30 PM
Anyone just hear an Albion fan on 5 live say Lai is the fifth richest man in the world, what's he smoking
Probably doesn't know probably is someone who is Chinese who is fifth richest man in the world and has the same last name but I doubt it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on May 08, 2018, 08:56:23 AM
I see hes re inforcing his board room

http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/936773245?-11200:789:3
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on May 30, 2018, 10:15:46 PM
I know we mock the seals owner for some of the rubbish he comes out with, but at least he speaks. Having just read his statement to villa fans it would of been nice to have heard from ours. I know Jenkins is our mouth piece but frankly lai had been useless in speaking to us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on May 30, 2018, 11:14:28 PM
I know we mock the seals owner for some of the rubbish he comes out with, but at least he speaks. Having just read his statement to villa fans it would of been nice to have heard from ours. I know Jenkins is our mouth piece but frankly lai had been useless in speaking to us

He "brought" everyone a drink and a scarf for his first game and now he only comes by to watch us against the "big boys" I can't see him turning up to watch us live at all this coming season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on May 31, 2018, 08:28:26 AM
Who’s bothered if he comes to watch as long as he signs the cheques like he did last year when we were 6th highest net spenders.

Hopefully this year though the people he puts in charge to sign the right players and look after the club aren’t the same as the divs who were there last year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on May 31, 2018, 03:23:55 PM
Who’s bothered if he comes to watch as long as he signs the cheques like he did last year when we were 6th highest net spenders.

Hopefully this year though the people he puts in charge to sign the right players and look after the club aren’t the same as the divs who were there last year.

Here's hoping ;) Though I'm intrigued by the appointment of Terraneo
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 31, 2018, 04:21:52 PM
If Lai was interested in supporting the club financially we’d still be sponsored by Palm and would be going ahead with a £250k upgrade to the medical department. FFP doesn’t kick in until three seasons, so you get the option to gamble for season 1&2 and spend like confetti like wolves did. Putting rivalries aside the way they built a great young team playing proper football should be our model to aspire to.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on May 31, 2018, 04:35:24 PM
If Lai was interested in supporting the club financially we’d still be sponsored by Palm and would be going ahead with a £250k upgrade to the medical department. FFP doesn’t kick in until three seasons, so you get the option to gamble for season 1&2 and spend like confetti like wolves did. Putting rivalries aside the way they built a great young team playing proper football should be our model to aspire to.

Eh? Wolves' parachute payments had long run out before they started building that team. Last season was their 5th since being relegated. Only reason they lucked out is because the Mendes link got them 2-3 Europa League quality players that would have never signed otherwise. They also didn't have that high of a net spend compared to the likes of Villa.

I agree that we will need to spend relatively big though, but we need to make sure we're targeting young players so we have the re-sale value if we fail, unlike what Villa have done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on May 31, 2018, 04:49:42 PM
Eh? Wolves' parachute payments had long run out before they started building that team. Last season was their 5th since being relegated. Only reason they lucked out is because the Mendes link got them 2-3 Europa League quality players that would have never signed otherwise. They also didn't have that high of a net spend compared to the likes of Villa.

I agree that we will need to spend relatively big though, but we need to make sure we're targeting young players so we have the re-sale value if we fail, unlike what Villa have done.
No point in letting facts get in the way of a good whinge is there?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 01, 2018, 01:22:27 AM
No point in letting facts get in the way of a good whinge is there?

My point was wolves spent big, an awful lot of money and did it very well. They financed that through the wealth of their owners. The next season we have an opportunity to consolidate our resources and go big as well. As we know we have the guarantee of the parachute payments. Very similar to Newcastle's approach to relegation. They threw everything into getting back at the first attempt and took a financial gamble that paid off. I'd like to see us go for it this season whilst our parachute payments are at their highest. Secondly if Lai is going to invest then he can do so now. We have three seasons to balance the accounts for FFP purposes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 01, 2018, 06:46:06 AM
I think Mr Peace sold us down the river to someone who would meet his asking price, not to someone who he promised would leave the club in a better position.
I really hope Lai proves me wrong, but the appointment of Moore as first team coach tells me won't throw money at it.
I doubt Big Dave has been given a rise either, we have heard nothing about his contract.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on June 01, 2018, 09:42:33 AM
My point was wolves spent big, an awful lot of money and did it very well. They financed that through the wealth of their owners. The next season we have an opportunity to consolidate our resources and go big as well. As we know we have the guarantee of the parachute payments. Very similar to Newcastle's approach to relegation. They threw everything into getting back at the first attempt and took a financial gamble that paid off. I'd like to see us go for it this season whilst our parachute payments are at their highest. Secondly if Lai is going to invest then he can do so now. We have three seasons to balance the accounts for FFP purposes.

Wolves spent £20m last summer, not exactly huge sums. Especially compared to Middlesbrough who spent around £50m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Wigmore on June 01, 2018, 11:01:42 AM
I doubt Big Dave has been given a rise either, we have heard nothing about his contract.
Whilst I understand that we tend to be downbeat about many aspects of the club, this statement is just wrong.
I have seen several reports of "an improved contract".

I don't think the club would be so crass as to insult the new Head Coach by being so tightfisted, and Moore would certainly not accept unchanged terms.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 01, 2018, 12:21:54 PM
I think Mr Peace sold us down the river to someone who would meet his asking price, not to someone who he promised would leave the club in a better position.

Agreed, he only concern appeared to be to maximise his own return, regardless of the long term well being of the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on June 01, 2018, 12:48:23 PM
I think Mr Peace sold us down the river to someone who would meet his asking price, not to someone who he promised would leave the club in a better position.


I'm struggling to see what Peace or Lai has done wrong at all.

Loads wanted to Peace to leave for someone to come in and spend more money and that is exactly what happened! Everyone after the summer transfer window was buzzing with the money spent.

Lai has done nothing wrong at all as all he does is signs the cheques and as I say 6th highest net spenders you can't argue with that, peoples fault it was have been dealt with; Williams, Hammond, Pulis & Pardew.

In what world do you believe that someone would pay 250m for a business and then not really be bothered about it? It doesn't happen. He probably doesn't know a fat lot about football, but least he admits that and for that reason puts football men in charge. Again its not his fault that they failed.

You could say that it was Peace who put forward Williams, but again I doubt he did that to harm us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 01, 2018, 12:58:33 PM
I'm struggling to see what Peace or Lai has done wrong at all.

Loads wanted to Peace to leave for someone to come in and spend more money and that is exactly what happened! Everyone after the summer transfer window was buzzing with the money spent.

Lai has done nothing wrong at all as all he does is signs the cheques and as I say 6th highest net spenders you can't argue with that, peoples fault it was have been dealt with; Williams, Hammond, Pulis & Pardew.

In what world do you believe that someone would pay 250m for a business and then not really be bothered about it? It doesn't happen. He probably doesn't know a fat lot about football, but least he admits that and for that reason puts football men in charge. Again its not his fault that they failed.

You could say that it was Peace who put forward Williams, but again I doubt he did that to harm us.

Peace sold the club on the basis that he was unable to take us any further forward. Yet he sold it to a bloke who is exactly the same as himself. They both run the same business model with no outside investment. So JP's whole premise for selling the club falls apart. As a club we are no better off with Lai than we were with Peace. We missed a once in a generation opportunity to get an owner on board with ambition and equity. Do you really think FOSUN group would have employed the same small time JP or LAI business model?

If the new owner is such a god why has he decided to stop sponsoring the shirt this season or canned a minute £250k upgrade to the medical department (and you note our renowned club doctor have left today)?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 01, 2018, 01:10:10 PM
Its extremely worrying, here we are again after years in the prem going down the untried untested road once more.
I really fear for the future.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on June 01, 2018, 01:14:36 PM
Surely the guy is only doing what any businessman would do in the circumstances and that is take advice and trim first.
Then take stock and then act,he has a lot to do,a lot of info from all departments to consider first,admittedly this must have been considered several weeks ago,maybe it was maybe not we don't know.
However,I think he's not a fool,he knows how many beans make five.
Once he and others know the whole picture he will act,at leat that's what I hope,restructuring takes time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 01, 2018, 01:32:06 PM
all very gloomy isnt it, will be confirmed when we start selling footballers and not replacing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 01, 2018, 03:19:19 PM
I wonder if Jeremy told Lai we are just a mid table championship side that's been punching above it's weight?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on June 01, 2018, 03:55:37 PM
If Lai was interested in supporting the club financially we’d still be sponsored by Palm and would be going ahead with a £250k upgrade to the medical department. FFP doesn’t kick in until three seasons, so you get the option to gamble for season 1&2 and spend like confetti like wolves did. Putting rivalries aside the way they built a great young team playing proper football should be our model to aspire to.

Don't see what the surprise is in Lai cutting investment. That's part of the deal which  relegation from the Prem includes. Almost any businessman would do likewise. Even a confirmed West Brom fan, such as Peace, would be cutting back. It now becomes doubly important that the right investment decisons are made on playing and coaching staff, with the funds available.
Maybe some of those posters who thought relegation might not be such a bad thing, would like to comment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 01, 2018, 05:17:12 PM
It IS worrying though when as Baggie82 states, we won't spend 250k upgrading the medical centre and the club doctor leaves for a rival club.

I will be fully behind Big Dave, but it's made me wonder more than ever about the real reason he was appointed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on June 01, 2018, 08:54:15 PM
I think Mr Peace sold us down the river to someone who would meet his asking price, not to someone who he promised would leave the club in a better position.
I really hope Lai proves me wrong, but the appointment of Moore as first team coach tells me won't throw money at it.
I doubt Big Dave has been given a rise either, we have heard nothing about his contract.
Very odd this 'extended contract' label given to DM. Can't help fearing it it's not even a 1 year rolling arrangement (which would be pretty sensible and not unfair).
Anyone know what DM's terms are ??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 02, 2018, 01:11:57 AM
Don't see what the surprise is in Lai cutting investment. That's part of the deal which  relegation from the Prem includes. Almost any businessman would do likewise. Even a confirmed West Brom fan, such as Peace, would be cutting back. It now becomes doubly important that the right investment decisons are made on playing and coaching staff, with the funds available.
Maybe some of those posters who thought relegation might not be such a bad thing, would like to comment.
Yes please, if a lot of the waste and sheer stupidity is eradicated the club will be in a far better place come the start of the season  (IMO)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on June 02, 2018, 06:34:31 AM
Very odd this 'extended contract' label given to DM. Can't help fearing it it's not even a 1 year rolling arrangement (which would be pretty sensible and not unfair).
Anyone know what DM's terms are ??

Whatever they are Darren Moore must have agreed with the offer, he signed the contract.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sarniabaggie on June 02, 2018, 08:37:19 AM
I'm struggling to see what Peace or Lai has done wrong at all.

Loads wanted to Peace to leave for someone to come in and spend more money and that is exactly what happened! Everyone after the summer transfer window was buzzing with the money spent.

Lai has done nothing wrong at all as all he does is signs the cheques and as I say 6th highest net spenders you can't argue with that, peoples fault it was have been dealt with; Williams, Hammond, Pulis & Pardew.

In what world do you believe that someone would pay 250m for a business and then not really be bothered about it? It doesn't happen. He probably doesn't know a fat lot about football, but least he admits that and for that reason puts football men in charge. Again its not his fault that they failed.

You could say that it was Peace who put forward Williams, but again I doubt he did that to harm us.

Absolutely spot on LeeisWBA.

The anti Peace brigade got what they wanted and are reaping what the Peace admires’ feared.
Many Peace believers said the “JP out brigade” will rue the day he left and so it came to pass.  8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 02, 2018, 09:35:30 AM
Whatever they are Darren Moore must have agreed with the offer, he signed the contract.

Have the head Honcho title or maybe have to leave the club. Not a difficult choice.
The first thing a club does when announcing a manager is to  give his terms of contract. Everyone knows that.
People bury their heads to the facts before them and say they can't blame Lai he's a businessman, and Big Dave looks happy.
They are running a world famous football club FFS not, The Imperial Garden.

As for old Jeremiah, look where he is now and look where we are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 02, 2018, 01:43:59 PM
I'll hold my gun powder dry until after summer transfer window to judge our owner and big Dave will have my full support for the upcoming campaign, hopefully our board will back him in transfer market.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 02, 2018, 01:47:50 PM
Absolutely spot on LeeisWBA.

The anti Peace brigade got what they wanted and are reaping what the Peace admires’ feared.
Many Peace believers said the “JP out brigade” will rue the day he left and so it came to pass.  8)

This is only because Jeremy Peace behaved like Jeremy Peace and took the club for everything he could get - milked it for every last penny - purely for his own interest, and without real care about who he sold it too.

I support West Bromwich Albion.  Peace was a positive impact in so many ways, but they were a bi-product of what was best for him.  Where else could you make a relatively small investment, get it all back (and more besides, by doing a share issue funded by a loan the club paid off), do another share reorg (which paid out to you and increased your part of the pie, securing fans shares for a low price - because you undervalue the asset) pay yourself over a million pound a year and sell after 17 years for £175-£200million.

Just don't put him on a pedestal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 02, 2018, 01:59:28 PM
Ebenezer was only interested in making as much money as possible and couldn't care less about the situation the club finds itself in. Only time will tell if he sold us a pup and if so hope he doesn't choke on a prawn sandwich  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on June 02, 2018, 02:57:02 PM
Fair enough I can accept ‘only time will tell’ but the point I’m making is that people have already made their mind up that Peace ‘sold us down the river’ to someone who doesn’t care based on nothing at all. Yes we have been relegated but I can’t see how any blame at all can be put on Lai, he has seen who has made the mistakes and fired them because of this. If he left the same people in charge to make the same mistakes again then fair enough it would show that he’s not got the clubs best interest at heart.

I don’t know whether it’s just a stick to beat Peace with or people just love to be negative and make out we’re in a crisis
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on June 02, 2018, 04:24:04 PM
Fair enough I can accept ‘only time will tell’ but the point I’m making is that people have already made their mind up that Peace ‘sold us down the river’ to someone who doesn’t care based on nothing at all. Yes we have been relegated but I can’t see how any blame at all can be put on Lai, he has seen who has made the mistakes and fired them because of this. If he left the same people in charge to make the same mistakes again then fair enough it would show that he’s not got the clubs best interest at heart.

I don’t know whether it’s just a stick to beat Peace with or people just love to be negative and make out we’re in a crisis

Spot on, exactly what I posted a few months ago. Lai has sanctioned spending levels greater than we have ever seen. Jenkins has even expressed his surprise that we have blown the whole of the £40m profits that were in the clubs accounts when he left. It's not Lai's fault that we've been paying the likes of HRK £40k a week and had two managers who were inept. We've paid wages in excess of £100k-a-week to two different players this season, something I thought I would never see us do.

Lai is not the man to blame, it was the rest of the idiots employed by the club who wasted the money, he has since fired them which can only be a positive for me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 02, 2018, 07:04:33 PM
Personally, I believe it was a lack of understanding of FFP which was the major cause of our downfall last season.
Before FFP, it was possible to buy yourself out of a hole in January. It can't be a coincidence that all the relegated clubs & most close to relegation were established Premier League clubs up to the limits of their FFP allowances.

I believe there would have been cash available to spend on players, but FFP pushed us down the Daniel Sturridge route.

Following comments from Mark Jenkins, a few weeks ago, I'm not sure we understand the implications for next season yet either.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 02, 2018, 08:10:10 PM
Personally, I believe it was a lack of understanding of FFP which was the major cause of our downfall last season.
Before FFP, it was possible to buy yourself out of a hole in January. It can't be a coincidence that all the relegated clubs & most close to relegation were established Premier League clubs up to the limits of their FFP allowances.

I believe there would have been cash available to spend on players, but FFP pushed us down the Daniel Sturridge route.

Following comments from Mark Jenkins, a few weeks ago, I'm not sure we understand the implications for next season yet either.

You have to hope that this wasn't the case it would be far worse that the club simply didn't understand the regs rather than make some dubious decisions.

FFP is less of an issue next year but get's progressively tougher to manage the longer we are in the Championship.

The irony is that we can get relegated spend more on wages than we have this year (as mad as that sounds) get promoted retain the increased wage bill and increase it by an additional £7m.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 02, 2018, 11:23:46 PM
Personally, I believe it was a lack of understanding of FFP which was the major cause of our downfall last season.
Before FFP, it was possible to buy yourself out of a hole in January. It can't be a coincidence that all the relegated clubs & most close to relegation were established Premier League clubs up to the limits of their FFP allowances.

I believe there would have been cash available to spend on players, but FFP pushed us down the Daniel Sturridge route.

Following comments from Mark Jenkins, a few weeks ago, I'm not sure we understand the implications for next season yet either.

A very good point John, and very plausible.
A great number of successful businessmen have limited knowledge of the football world.
I too hope you are wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 03, 2018, 11:09:09 AM
Lai has sanctioned spending levels greater than we have ever seen.

Of course he did, we had a bumper new TV deal with a much bigger budget as a result. Plus that was on the back of not spending much the year before and a higher league placing with more income than expected. No different to the Peace model. No outside investment but you can spend what comes in. Our spending last season was hardly as spectacular as some posters imply for a premier league team of seven years standing. I think our most expensive player was around £15m? Which doesn’t get you much these days. Our net spend was relatively high as we failed under Pulis to have any resellable talent. No prize youngster sold to a top size club for example like Southampton. This idea that Lai opened the floodgates with the transfers last season is a nonsense. What we did expect to see, James Quinn for £750k?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on June 03, 2018, 03:13:44 PM
Of course he did, we had a bumper new TV deal with a much bigger budget as a result. Plus that was on the back of not spending much the year before and a higher league placing with more income than expected. No different to the Peace model. No outside investment but you can spend what comes in. Our spending last season was hardly as spectacular as some posters imply for a premier league team of seven years standing. I think our most expensive player was around £15m? Which doesn’t get you much these days. Our net spend was relatively high as we failed under Pulis to have any resellable talent. No prize youngster sold to a top size club for example like Southampton. This idea that Lai opened the floodgates with the transfers last season is a nonsense. What we did expect to see, James Quinn for £750k?
This idea of no resellable talent under Pulis...that's highly likely to be put to bed soon when Rondon, J-Rod and Evans move on and very possibly Livermore,  Chadli, maybe Gibbs, Phillips, Hegazi
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 03, 2018, 04:02:48 PM
This idea of no resellable talent under Pulis...that's highly likely to be put to bed soon when Rondon, J-Rod and Evans move on and very possibly Livermore,  Chadli, maybe Gibbs, Phillips, Hegazi

 I think you’ve missed the point entirely. All players have a value. Question is what net profit have we made on them? Secondly does that profit even cover the additional cost of signing replacements given the inflation in the transfer market.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on June 03, 2018, 05:54:29 PM
I didn't miss your general point but you did hint that no-one Pulis bought was resellable, which is a bit different to what your reply states. Whether we make profit remains to be seen and release clauses will affect that. We could have made 15m profit on Evans if we'd let him go and we could have got 30m plus for Rondon from the Chinese offer. It was probably more a case that the players from the pre-Pulis era were all ageing and had little resale value, Berahino aside.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 03, 2018, 06:36:20 PM
This idea of no resellable talent under Pulis...that's highly likely to be put to bed soon when Rondon, J-Rod and Evans move on and very possibly Livermore,  Chadli, maybe Gibbs, Phillips, Hegazi

Have any of these players increased in value?  Hegazi maybe, coming from the unknown.  But the others, if they have gone up in value, its due to inflation in the market rather than improving a player.  I think the point is that, during the Pulis years (and probably before that too) we have not bought any players with a view to improving them and selling them for a profit.  The same can be said of developing our own players, with the exception of that fraud Berahino.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on June 03, 2018, 08:52:52 PM
Have any of these players increased in value?  Hegazi maybe, coming from the unknown.  But the others, if they have gone up in value, its due to inflation in the market rather than improving a player.  I think the point is that, during the Pulis years (and probably before that too) we have not bought any players with a view to improving them and selling them for a profit.  The same can be said of developing our own players, with the exception of that fraud Berahino.
That wasn't the original point as the wording was 'failed to have any resellable talent under Pulis' (but well yes they have increased in value given the offers we had for Evans and Rondon - we chose not to let them go).....fair chance we'll get more for Rodriguez than we paid for him - is that just inflation - well that's a pretty arbitrary measure in the football world as we know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan87uk on June 06, 2018, 11:53:41 AM
So, With Villa's implosion currently in full swing (which, of course, pleases me) I think we still need to try and temper our reaction and taunting (if you can stifle it); just for a couple of days; whilst we see what the bigger impact of the Chinese restrictions on cash flow movement outside of their country does on a wider scale.

The bottom line is that we are Chinese owned, so this does potentially have some impact for us too; though shouldn't be anywhere near Villa's level of problems as we've been fairly sensible with our contract flex downs and such for example.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 06, 2018, 12:23:07 PM
So, With Villa's implosion currently in full swing (which, of course, pleases me) I think we still need to try and temper our reaction and taunting (if you can stifle it); just for a couple of days; whilst we see what the bigger impact of the Chinese restrictions on cash flow movement outside of their country does on a wider scale.

The bottom line is that we are Chinese owned, so this does potentially have some impact for us too; though shouldn't be anywhere near Villa's level of problems as we've been fairly sensible with our contract flex downs and such for example.

The restrictions on capital leaving China have been in place since 2016.

On the other hand, allegedly Wanda were forced to sell a £40 million stake in Athletico Madrid, so it's not clear what the implications are for us.

As I understand it, it's speculative investment that's being frowned upon by the Chinese government, investment which relates to government policy (Hinkley Point for example) is approved.

From what I can gather, GL has used our academy model in the development of the Palm Eco Town projects, so you would think that his investment in WBA has the approval of the Chinese government.
That said, it may well be that, as a consequence, the focus will now be on developing players from the academy, as opposed to buying the finished product.

It's likely that Fosun will have similar difficulties taking capital from the internal Chinese economy, so it might not be just Villa that has problems.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 06, 2018, 12:53:09 PM
The restrictions on capital leaving China have been in place since 2016.

On the other hand, allegedly Wanda were forced to sell a £40 million stake in Athletico Madrid, so it's not clear what the implications are for us.

As I understand it, it's speculative investment that's being frowned upon by the Chinese government, investment which relates to government policy (Hinkley Point for example) is approved.

From what I can gather, GL has used our academy model in the development of the Palm Eco Town projects, so you would think that his investment in WBA has the approval of the Chinese government.
That said, it may well be that, as a consequence, the focus will now be on developing players from the academy, as opposed to buying the finished product.

It's likely that Fosun will have similar difficulties taking capital from the internal Chinese economy, so it might not be just Villa that has problems.

I'm no financial expert and don't understand their inner workings, but Fosun appear to have taken steps regarding their dealings on the Chinese mainland and the provision of capital. Wolves are currently a small part of a wealthy empire (sorry Dings, but it's true) and I believe Fosun to be far more street wise than Dr Broke. As such I'd imagine they're better equipped to manouvre funds when/where appropriate. They've got their fingers in an awful lot of pies and appear to really know their onions.

http://www.macaubusiness.com/fosun-international-cashing-subsidiaries-mainland-china/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 06, 2018, 01:46:59 PM
With the vile up the creak It doesn't look likely that we will spend much cash and will probably cash in on assets. Give it a few days and Jenkins will issue statement similar to one he made after he arrived that's my thinking anyway
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 06, 2018, 02:03:42 PM
Just breaking vile could be taken over by new York yankies minority owner, are these the same people who wanted to buy us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on June 06, 2018, 02:10:26 PM
With the vile up the creak It doesn't look likely that we will spend much cash and will probably cash in on assets. Give it a few days and Jenkins will issue statement similar to one he made after he arrived that's my thinking anyway

Finally allowing us to cement our natural place in the middle of the Championship, but at least we won't go into administration  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on June 28, 2018, 05:09:10 AM
In the name of Football, the most clueless person every to be associated with this great club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on June 28, 2018, 06:29:46 AM
In the name of Football, the most clueless person every to be associated with this great club.

He made JP a very rich man but has left the rest of us tearing our hair out with frustration at his total lack of knowledge of British football. It’s time for him to cut his losses and sell to someone prepared to invest in the club. Lai hasn’t invested anything to my knowledge
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 28, 2018, 07:34:36 AM
Looks like hes going to get most of his purchase money back, you can have your scarf back if you want
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NathWBA on June 28, 2018, 07:37:48 AM
He made JP a very rich man but has left the rest of us tearing our hair out with frustration at his total lack of knowledge of British football. It’s time for him to cut his losses and sell to someone prepared to invest in the club. Lai hasn’t invested anything to my knowledge
£8mill on Zhang Yuning
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 28, 2018, 09:57:13 PM
Looks like hes going to get most of his purchase money back, you can have your scarf back if you want

I do laugh when I see comments like this,

Some facts:

1. This is a company, not a club. Company law applies.

2. Under company law, money can only be stripped out (a) by repaying debt owed to him by the club, of which we have none or next to none, or (b) our if distributable reserves, of which we none or next to none.

3. He bought the club from Peace, and that’s where his money went, not to the club, and Peace won’t be giving it back.

4. To get his £200m back it would take him 5 years of making profits of £40m a year.  We weren’t making £40m a year profit in the PL, and we certainly aren’t going to making big profits in the Championship.

5. There are external shareholders who own 12% of the holding company.  For Lao to strip out any profits as dividends, then all of the shareholders would need to also be paid.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on June 28, 2018, 10:16:04 PM
Lai turning out to be a pathetic owner who just seems clueless - only winner out of all is Peace !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on June 28, 2018, 10:20:44 PM
He made JP a very rich man but has left the rest of us tearing our hair out with frustration at his total lack of knowledge of British football. It’s time for him to cut his losses and sell to someone prepared to invest in the club. Lai hasn’t invested anything to my knowledge

The big question I wanted answering when he bought the club was whether he would invest and try and move the club on.
Can't be any sign of any beneficial investment so far and seems so clueless that he could run us into the ground if we sell all the prize assets and recruit garbage to add some garbage we already have left.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on June 28, 2018, 10:43:30 PM
I do laugh when I see comments like this,

Some facts:

1. This is a company, not a club. Company law applies.

2. Under company law, money can only be stripped out (a) by repaying debt owed to him by the club, of which we have none or next to none, or (b) our if distributable reserves, of which we none or next to none.

3. He bought the club from Peace, and that’s where his money went, not to the club, and Peace won’t be giving it back.

4. To get his £200m back it would take him 5 years of making profits of £40m a year.  We weren’t making £40m a year profit in the PL, and we certainly aren’t going to making big profits in the Championship.

5. There are external shareholders who own 12% of the holding company.  For Lao to strip out any profits as dividends, then all of the shareholders would need to also be paid.

I don't, it's every single transfer window and always from the same posters. Every window someone replies with the facts like you've done and they are never capable of taking information on board. I guarantee we'll have the same "chairman is taking money from the club" posts from the same posters in January, and again next summer, despite the fact that it is against the law and has not and almost certainly will not happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Slimbo on June 29, 2018, 12:11:54 AM
"despite the fact that it is against the law" - why is it against the law to take dividends from a profitable company ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 29, 2018, 07:38:37 AM
"despite the fact that it is against the law" - why is it against the law to take dividends from a profitable company ?

It’s very simple - a company can only declare and pay a dividend out of available distributable profits.  If those profits have already been distributed then they are not available to distribute until further profits have been made.  We don’t have significant distributable profits left (the previous profits had been distributed around the time when Peace sold to Lai).



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 29, 2018, 08:28:53 AM
It’s very simple - a company can only declare and pay a dividend out of available distributable profits.  If those profits have already been distributed then they are not available to distribute until further profits have been made.  We don’t have significant distributable profits left (the previous profits had been distributed around the time when Peace sold to Lai).

I take your point, but this season (2018/09) our operating costs will be significantly lower, & although the revenue will also be lower, It's possible for us to show a pretty decent profit at the end of the season,
Given the scenario you painted, wouldn't it be possible to take a significant sum out as profit to off-set his losses & then sell the club for less than he paid for it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 29, 2018, 02:33:37 PM
I take your point, but this season (2018/09) our operating costs will be significantly lower, & although the revenue will also be lower, It's possible for us to show a pretty decent profit at the end of the season,
Given the scenario you painted, wouldn't it be possible to take a significant sum out as profit to off-set his losses & then sell the club for less than he paid for it?



Our revenue will be lower and our costs will be lower and the net result may well be either a modest profit or a loss (depending on what risk approach is taken).  However, if we sell loads of players to raise say £100m then there would only be a sizeable profit if we replace them with players costing next to nothing or even free transfers, but the size of the profit wouldn’t be quantified until the audited accounts are prepared for the year ended 30th June 2019 (ie early 2020).  Large dividends could not be safely declared until then, so a very unlikely scenario.

He can’t take out a profit (dividend) until after the profits have actually been confirmed. Realistically it would take 3/4 years to get his money back if he then sold the club for £100m (half what he paid for it). 

His best option is to invest wisely in getting us promoted within 2 years so that the club can be sold for close to what he paid for it.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on June 29, 2018, 07:59:33 PM
Silence is golden from him !

What's his aims, his plan ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on June 29, 2018, 08:23:03 PM
Silence is golden from him !

What's his aims, his plan ?

If it was my investment i would be showing far more interest . He barely came last season so he’s hardly going to rock up against Rotherham . As an owner I feel he needs to be far more hands on but I don’t think the interest is there .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 30, 2018, 08:12:02 PM
Just to put the ongoing turmoil of last eight months in context:

Manager sacked - Nov 17
Chairman sacked - Feb 2018
Chief executive sacked - Feb 2018
Manager sacked - April 2018
Director of football resigned - April 2018
Upgrade to training ground cancelled - May 2018
Chief of medical staff resigned - June 2018
Scouts left - TBC
Technical director sidelined - June 2018

Anything I've missed out? :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on June 30, 2018, 08:31:43 PM
I'd compare him to randy Lerner so far unfortunately . We're still in a mess and lacking leadership. Can't help but think we need an owner who at least has a passing interest in the club ?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on June 30, 2018, 08:39:07 PM
I'd compare him to randy Lerner so far unfortunately . We're still in a mess and lacking leadership. Can't help but think we need an owner who at least has a passing interest in the club ?!

Tony Xia took over from Lerner and has had a big interest in their club  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on June 30, 2018, 08:49:20 PM
Common theme between Lai and Xia is they both have no experience on the football side and both plumped for old school British managers who spunked loads of cash on mediocrity or worse !

Any good leader knows their limitations and surrounds themselves with top people in the right places!

Meanwhile Wolves owners enlisted the help of one of most connected and knowledgable agents in the game to help mould their football side of the club - that's good leadership
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on June 30, 2018, 09:29:29 PM
Common theme between Lai and Xia is they both have no experience on the football side and both plumped for old school British managers who spunked loads of cash on mediocrity or worse !

Any good leader knows their limitations and surrounds themselves with top people in the right places!

Meanwhile Wolves owners enlisted the help of one of most connected and knowledgable agents in the game to help mould their football side of the club - that's good leadership
This is well put and a very good point
However many earlier on this thread have claimed the chairman is about to assert strip (no proof), has been taking money (he hasn't) and the best one...he doesn't care ( are we expecting an invite twice weekly for faggots chips n peas, so he can let us know exactly how he's running his business?)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 30, 2018, 09:39:36 PM
It’s such a myth that Directors/Chairman doesn’t care etc.

They have a personal fiduciary duty and can be imprisoned if they do not follow law as set out by companies house.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on June 30, 2018, 09:44:57 PM
It’s such a myth that Directors/Chairman doesn’t care etc.

They have a personal fiduciary duty and can be imprisoned if they do not follow law as set out by companies house.
What does that mean in English?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on June 30, 2018, 09:50:55 PM
It means trust between a trustee and beneficiary.
He has obligations to adhere to in company law,this is only from memory so I stand corrected.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 30, 2018, 09:52:06 PM
What does that mean in English?
In this context it means they are entrusted to take care of the club's money in an appropriate way and are legally responsible to do so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on June 30, 2018, 10:28:29 PM
Think Peace needs to let Lai have a copy of his moneyball dvd (baseball film which inspired Peace to bring in Ashworth etc and to ultimately realise you need to do something different to others to get ahead when you don't have loadsa £££$.

Start again with a strong innovative DoF who has good connections and rebuild properly instead of this short term Chelsea lite approach which will fail again and again
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on July 01, 2018, 12:02:41 PM
With Lai getting rid of half the staff at the club and that idiot Pardew I expected by now that we'd be looking settled behind the scenes, all pulling in the right direction and progressing nicely with our rebuild. How wrong can you be?

Rebuild - What bloody rebuild? So far we've released a few players - all correctly released (IMO) and that's it. Not one signing, not one imminent as far as I can see. We've had the usual glut of rumours that you get at this time of the year but nothing else. We don't have an assistant head coach STILL! How long does it take?

We have two senior pro's behaving like twelve year olds.

What the hell is going on? It's an absolute shambles and it cannot be allowed to carry on like this. The new season is only five weeks away.

We need some very strong leadership from the owner now, he needs to bang heads, make hard decisions and get this club back onto some sort of track.





Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 01, 2018, 12:52:37 PM
With Lai getting rid of half the staff at the club and that idiot Pardew I expected by now that we'd be looking settled behind the scenes, all pulling in the right direction and progressing nicely with our rebuild. How wrong can you be?

Rebuild - What bloody rebuild? So far we've released a few players - all correctly released (IMO) and that's it. Not one signing, not one imminent as far as I can see. We've had the usual glut of rumours that you get at this time of the year but nothing else. We don't have an assistant head coach STILL! How long does it take?

We have two senior pro's behaving like twelve year olds.

What the hell is going on? It's an absolute shambles and it cannot be allowed to carry on like this. The new season is only five weeks away.

We need some very strong leadership from the owner now, he needs to bang heads, make hard decisions and get this club back onto some sort of track.

Good public relations is paramount in any successful business. At our club it is non existent. Surely there should be some positive statement coming out of the club just to keep the fans in the loop. It doesn't have to go into details. At present most fans are feeling depressed at what is going on at the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 01, 2018, 01:07:13 PM
Good public relations is paramount in any successful business. At our club it is non existent. Surely there should be some positive statement coming out of the club just to keep the fans in the loop. It doesn't have to go into details. At present most fans are feeling depressed at what is going on at the club.


I believe things are happening so fast at the club, it's impossible to make a statement.

From an outsider looking in, we appear to be out of control.

I just hope this rumour about Michael Appleton is true, by making the assistant Heat Coach appointment, at least the club will be able to demonstrate that some progress is being made.
There does appear to be some positive links with players this morning, so maybe our recruitment process is not as far behind as we think.

I agree though, we do need something reassuring to demonstrate that the management are back in control.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on July 01, 2018, 03:27:44 PM
So I see no signs of this happening yet, but it would be possible for Lai to take cash out of the club.  The obvious way of doing this is to sell and reclaim some, but not all of his investment cash given the depreciation in WBA as an asset since his purchase.  The other way would be to sell assets, generating cash which could then be paid via a dividend.  The owners of Blackpool operated this process to take cash out and decimate the club. The sale of four or five key players could generate 80 million and still leave the club in the middle of the championship potentially. 

Personally I wish JP was still at the helm.  He had a very sound business acumen, understood football, and had some loyalty to the club- accepting that finance was always the major driver. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 01, 2018, 07:06:52 PM

I believe things are happening so fast at the club, it's impossible to make a statement.

From an outsider looking in, we appear to be out of control.

I just hope this rumour about Michael Appleton is true, by making the assistant Heat Coach appointment, at least the club will be able to demonstrate that some progress is being made.
There does appear to be some positive links with players this morning, so maybe our recruitment process is not as far behind as we think.

I agree though, we do need something reassuring to demonstrate that the management are back in control.

Ha ha, that's the best comment on here today  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 01, 2018, 07:59:50 PM
So I see no signs of this happening yet, but it would be possible for Lai to take cash out of the club.  The obvious way of doing this is to sell and reclaim some, but not all of his investment cash given the depreciation in WBA as an asset since his purchase.  The other way would be to sell assets, generating cash which could then be paid via a dividend.  The owners of Blackpool operated this process to take cash out and decimate the club. The sale of four or five key players could generate 80 million and still leave the club in the middle of the championship potentially. 

Personally I wish JP was still at the helm.  He had a very sound business acumen, understood football, and had some loyalty to the club- accepting that finance was always the major driver.

Not correct.

If Lai was to sell the club then he wouldn’t “be taking money out of the club”.  He’d be taking money from the buyer, which is not the same thing at all.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, if a load of players were sold and the cash not reinvested in players, then the proceeds of those player sales could only be taken out as dividends once there are confirmed distributable reserves (ie audited net profits as per the accounts), and it would take many years of profits to get back his £200m. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 01, 2018, 09:00:37 PM
Ha ha, that's the best comment on here today  :D

Perhaps the word should have been changing then  >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 08, 2018, 11:19:34 PM
With Evans and Foster gone for combined fee of 7 million and Mcclean rumoured to be9 leaving for 6 million could Moore be hamstrung in transfer market with regards to players with release clauses? Rondon 16.5 million, chadli 18 million and Hegazi 10 million. Combine those players with Dawson and Rodriguez who we'd except bids of 20 million each the first team would be stripped to pieces. Lai could be laughing all the way to the bank with in excess of 90 million pounds on player sales and high earners of wage bill.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: CanadaBaggieEh! on July 09, 2018, 03:40:43 AM
Even if the money went directly to him (which it doesn't), I'm still not sure he'd be laughing as he'd still be £110,000,000 in the hole, and without investing that money back into player there's very little hope of getting that remainder back.

With Evans and Foster gone for combined fee of 7 million and Mcclean rumoured to be9 leaving for 6 million could Moore be hamstrung in transfer market with regards to players with release clauses? Rondon 16.5 million, chadli 18 million and Hegazi 10 million. Combine those players with Dawson and Rodriguez who we'd except bids of 20 million each the first team would be stripped to pieces. Lai could be laughing all the way to the bank with in excess of 90 million pounds on player sales and high earners of wage bill.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: chipperclark on July 09, 2018, 03:47:20 AM
Just to put the ongoing turmoil of last eight months in context:

Manager sacked - Nov 17
Chairman sacked - Feb 2018
Chief executive sacked - Feb 2018
Manager sacked - April 2018
Director of football resigned - April 2018
Upgrade to training ground cancelled - May 2018
Chief of medical staff resigned - June 2018
Scouts left - TBC
Technical director sidelined - June 2018

Anything I've missed out? :o
:D yes the tea lady wanted a pay rise of 10p and didn't get it so she  left.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 24, 2018, 02:18:41 PM
Today's loan signing of a youngster today confirms that this guy has no ambition at all
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on July 24, 2018, 02:20:27 PM
Chinese Jeremy Peace, in a way i think Mr Lai is worse because i actually dont think he cares about the club at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on July 24, 2018, 02:23:11 PM
I disagree

As it Stands we still have; Dawson, Hegazi, Gibbs, Chadli, Phillips, Burke, Livermore, Rodriguez and Rondon who should all do a very good job at this level. If we lose them i think they'll be adequately replaced. This doesn't take into account the likes Nyom, Brunt, Field, Morrison and possibly Edwards who can all seem solid for this level. It also doesn't account for Bartley, Johnstone and Barnes who will all push to start.

That's 17 players listed above. We'll lose a 2, 3 maybe 4 but we're looking ok i think...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 24, 2018, 02:36:49 PM
I disagree

As it Stands we still have; Dawson, Hegazi, Gibbs, Chadli, Phillips, Burke, Livermore, Rodriguez and Rondon who should all do a very good job at this level. If we lose them i think they'll be adequately replaced. This doesn't take into account the likes Nyom, Brunt, Field, Morrison and possibly Edwards who can all seem solid for this level. It also doesn't account for Bartley, Johnstone and Barnes who will all push to start.

That's 17 players listed above. We'll lose a 2, 3 maybe 4 but we're looking ok i think...






Let's see come the 9th. However this guy we've never heard from him and it's clear he has no interest whatsoever. I remember being excited the 5th August 2016 when this all came to pass. i didn't attend the last four games of last season due to the fact that I felt the club had given up. I see nothing so far that makes me see differently. We are now firmly behind wolves, in terms of ambition and soon villa. How long till blues owners despite to go for it. We are so small time
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on July 24, 2018, 03:46:55 PM
On several occasions I have expressed my opinion on our esteemed owner (and been told off about it) and I don’t expect anything will occur to make me change my mind. Better not say anymore!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on July 24, 2018, 04:05:38 PM
I am not really bothered what he says, its what he does that counts.

Dr Xia was banging on about champions league football in five years at the villa, look how that turned out, most of my villa mates are very cautious over their new owners, villa are still in an immediate mess in that they have to sell their best players because of the good Doctors gambling to try and make europe, he didnt even make the premier league.

Wolves are currently a newly promoted premier league club, some of there signings are impressive, but again if you listen to what you hear from them, its all been said before, under Sir Jack they were going to buy the premier league, didnt quite work out, under Steve Morgan it was the glory days are back, again look how it turned out. The early signs are good under Fosum, they have talked big and so far so good, but as stated previous, like most football club owners, they are an investment group, so any players who can be sold for big money at Wolves, they will be, see where they are in a year or two, they are just as likely to be back in the championship as they are a top half premier league club.

As for our owner, he dont say a lot, but his actions have positives and negatives.

Positives - Last summer, in his first full summer we spent more on transfer fees and wages than ever before, we had players signing we would never of imagined (Greg, Sturridge) we were backed very well.

Negatives - The people he had doing the business for him were bad choices from him, we got into a mess off the field in we seem to of lost £40m and on the field with coaches, managers not being the right choices, its been a very expensive mistake which it would seem we are learning from as we appear to getting more youth, pace and hunger in the team rather than the experienced approach.

Similar to Fosum, we are an investment for Mr Lai and the only way he and the other members have any chance of gaining returns on the investment is by us being a premier league club so its in their interests more than anyone for us to get there, they arent fans, they are business people.

However they arent going for a s**t or bust approach which many other clubs have tried, they are being sensible, if the transfer window closes and we have our current squad we have on paper the strongest squad in the league (i know papers means nothing) we have replaced the players we have lost with young, hungry, quick players from elsewhere (Johnstone and Barnes) and appear to be trying to give our own youth a chance too, something most of us want to see.

Realistically we will lose a player or three between now and the window but it would appear that Big Dave will be given the funds from those sales to buy who he wants.

If Big Dave turns round and says he isnt given any funds to replace those leaving, or signs of asset stripping starts to happen, then i will be first to have an issue with Mr Lai, however the only thing he seems to of done wrong so far is trusted experienced football people to run his club (Pulis, Pardew, Williams, cant remember the other bloke) and it would seem he has learnt from that and got a bloke back in off the pitch (Jenkins) although who wasnt liked was Peaces main man for the most successful period in the last 30 odd years and a bloke managing who the fans love, who cares and who is young and hungry.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 24, 2018, 04:25:33 PM
On several occasions I have expressed my opinion on our esteemed owner (and been told off about it) and I don’t expect anything will occur to make me change my mind. Better not say anymore!

Can we get the facts right then please ?

You were "told off" if you want to call it that for using xenophobic names to describe our owner and that will not change whether its you or anyone else, its not wanted on this forum for any player, fan, official or anyone else.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 24, 2018, 04:47:50 PM
I work in Wolvo, i have to keep hearing everyday about their latest signings, their 50,000 all seater stadium, their hopes of top ten finish.
I come on here and see folks getting excited about shirts and a loan signing from Barnsley.
Peace held out to get a gullible person to meet his extortionate price, and now Lai looks like a rabbit in the headlights.
Peace's vision of us being a small midtable championship club has come true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 24, 2018, 04:51:29 PM
I work in Wolvo, i have to keep hearing everyday about their latest signings, their 50,000 all seater stadium, their hopes of top ten finish.
I come on here and see folks getting excited about shirts and a loan signing from Barnsley.
Peace held out to get a gullible person to meet his extortionate price, and now Lai looks like a rabbit in the headlights.
Peace's vision of us being a small midtable championship club has come true.
laughing all the way to the bank.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on July 24, 2018, 04:58:34 PM
I am not really bothered what he says, its what he does that counts.

Dr Xia was banging on about champions league football in five years at the villa, look how that turned out, most of my villa mates are very cautious over their new owners, villa are still in an immediate mess in that they have to sell their best players because of the good Doctors gambling to try and make europe, he didnt even make the premier league.

Wolves are currently a newly promoted premier league club, some of there signings are impressive, but again if you listen to what you hear from them, its all been said before, under Sir Jack they were going to buy the premier league, didnt quite work out, under Steve Morgan it was the glory days are back, again look how it turned out. The early signs are good under Fosum, they have talked big and so far so good, but as stated previous, like most football club owners, they are an investment group, so any players who can be sold for big money at Wolves, they will be, see where they are in a year or two, they are just as likely to be back in the championship as they are a top half premier league club.

As for our owner, he dont say a lot, but his actions have positives and negatives.

Positives - Last summer, in his first full summer we spent more on transfer fees and wages than ever before, we had players signing we would never of imagined (Greg, Sturridge) we were backed very well.

Negatives - The people he had doing the business for him were bad choices from him, we got into a mess off the field in we seem to of lost £40m and on the field with coaches, managers not being the right choices, its been a very expensive mistake which it would seem we are learning from as we appear to getting more youth, pace and hunger in the team rather than the experienced approach.

Similar to Fosum, we are an investment for Mr Lai and the only way he and the other members have any chance of gaining returns on the investment is by us being a premier league club so its in their interests more than anyone for us to get there, they arent fans, they are business people.

However they arent going for a s**t or bust approach which many other clubs have tried, they are being sensible, if the transfer window closes and we have our current squad we have on paper the strongest squad in the league (i know papers means nothing) we have replaced the players we have lost with young, hungry, quick players from elsewhere (Johnstone and Barnes) and appear to be trying to give our own youth a chance too, something most of us want to see.

Realistically we will lose a player or three between now and the window but it would appear that Big Dave will be given the funds from those sales to buy who he wants.

If Big Dave turns round and says he isnt given any funds to replace those leaving, or signs of asset stripping starts to happen, then i will be first to have an issue with Mr Lai, however the only thing he seems to of done wrong so far is trusted experienced football people to run his club (Pulis, Pardew, Williams, cant remember the other bloke) and it would seem he has learnt from that and got a bloke back in off the pitch (Jenkins) although who wasnt liked was Peaces main man for the most successful period in the last 30 odd years and a bloke managing who the fans love, who cares and who is young and hungry.

A very sensible and well constructed post, many on here will agree with you and there will be some that, for what every reasons, don’t and won’t get it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: charlebaggie on July 24, 2018, 05:02:58 PM
I am not really bothered what he says, its what he does that counts.

Dr Xia was banging on about champions league football in five years at the villa, look how that turned out, most of my villa mates are very cautious over their new owners, villa are still in an immediate mess in that they have to sell their best players because of the good Doctors gambling to try and make europe, he didnt even make the premier league.

Wolves are currently a newly promoted premier league club, some of there signings are impressive, but again if you listen to what you hear from them, its all been said before, under Sir Jack they were going to buy the premier league, didnt quite work out, under Steve Morgan it was the glory days are back, again look how it turned out. The early signs are good under Fosum, they have talked big and so far so good, but as stated previous, like most football club owners, they are an investment group, so any players who can be sold for big money at Wolves, they will be, see where they are in a year or two, they are just as likely to be back in the championship as they are a top half premier league club.

As for our owner, he dont say a lot, but his actions have positives and negatives.

Positives - Last summer, in his first full summer we spent more on transfer fees and wages than ever before, we had players signing we would never of imagined (Greg, Sturridge) we were backed very well.

Negatives - The people he had doing the business for him were bad choices from him, we got into a mess off the field in we seem to of lost £40m and on the field with coaches, managers not being the right choices, its been a very expensive mistake which it would seem we are learning from as we appear to getting more youth, pace and hunger in the team rather than the experienced approach.

Similar to Fosum, we are an investment for Mr Lai and the only way he and the other members have any chance of gaining returns on the investment is by us being a premier league club so its in their interests more than anyone for us to get there, they arent fans, they are business people.

However they arent going for a s**t or bust approach which many other clubs have tried, they are being sensible, if the transfer window closes and we have our current squad we have on paper the strongest squad in the league (i know papers means nothing) we have replaced the players we have lost with young, hungry, quick players from elsewhere (Johnstone and Barnes) and appear to be trying to give our own youth a chance too, something most of us want to see.

Realistically we will lose a player or three between now and the window but it would appear that Big Dave will be given the funds from those sales to buy who he wants.

If Big Dave turns round and says he isnt given any funds to replace those leaving, or signs of asset stripping starts to happen, then i will be first to have an issue with Mr Lai, however the only thing he seems to of done wrong so far is trusted experienced football people to run his club (Pulis, Pardew, Williams, cant remember the other bloke) and it would seem he has learnt from that and got a bloke back in off the pitch (Jenkins) although who wasnt liked was Peaces main man for the most successful period in the last 30 odd years and a bloke managing who the fans love, who cares and who is young and hungry.
.     Well said 79. My sentiments entirely. Don't know why some have got a hangup with Jenkins he's come in to steady the ship. I bet the Vile wished they got someone like him
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 24, 2018, 06:07:39 PM
Wolves...The early signs are good under Fosum, they have talked big and so far so good, but as stated previous, like most football club owners, they are an investment group, so any players who can be sold for big money at Wolves, they will be, see where they are in a year or two, they are just as likely to be back in the championship as they are a top half premier league club.

Sadly I think your wrong about this. Fosun are worth billions so they couldn't care less about shifting on a footballer to make a few million. They seem intent on building wolves up into one of the larger premier league sides, one of the strongest outside the champions league teams. Annoyingly they are signing high quality players on dodgy free transfers (keeper) or loan deals to give them loads of room under FFP, the Mendes link has given them unique access to a huge pool of high quality portugese players at undercut prices. No chance of them getting relegated in my view. Expect them to upset a few teams next season. Unless of course they get a horrific run of injuries. Generally you win the championship comfortably like they did and you don't get relegated the next season, most promoted clubs tend to hang around for a bit these days.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on July 24, 2018, 06:46:07 PM





Let's see come the 9th. However this guy we've never heard from him and it's clear he has no interest whatsoever. I remember being excited the 5th August 2016 when this all came to pass. i didn't attend the last four games of last season due to the fact that I felt the club had given up. I see nothing so far that makes me see differently. We are now firmly behind wolves, in terms of ambition and soon villa. How long till blues owners despite to go for it. We are so small time

Are you seriously saying he spent £200m on something he has no interest in?? I dont think any business man would do that, Chinese or not. Yes he will want a return on his investment, so sitting back doing nothing wont cut the mustard. He admits to not knowing about football, so has entrusted the club in other hands. Has he made mistakes?? Yes he has, and hopefully he is putting that right. And it ain't going to happen overnight. Im sure he's not happy to get relegated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on July 24, 2018, 06:57:20 PM
I am not really bothered what he says, its what he does that counts.

Dr Xia was banging on about champions league football in five years at the villa, look how that turned out, most of my villa mates are very cautious over their new owners, villa are still in an immediate mess in that they have to sell their best players because of the good Doctors gambling to try and make europe, he didnt even make the premier league.

Wolves are currently a newly promoted premier league club, some of there signings are impressive, but again if you listen to what you hear from them, its all been said before, under Sir Jack they were going to buy the premier league, didnt quite work out, under Steve Morgan it was the glory days are back, again look how it turned out. The early signs are good under Fosum, they have talked big and so far so good, but as stated previous, like most football club owners, they are an investment group, so any players who can be sold for big money at Wolves, they will be, see where they are in a year or two, they are just as likely to be back in the championship as they are a top half premier league club.

As for our owner, he dont say a lot, but his actions have positives and negatives.

Positives - Last summer, in his first full summer we spent more on transfer fees and wages than ever before, we had players signing we would never of imagined (Greg, Sturridge) we were backed very well.

Negatives - The people he had doing the business for him were bad choices from him, we got into a mess off the field in we seem to of lost £40m and on the field with coaches, managers not being the right choices, its been a very expensive mistake which it would seem we are learning from as we appear to getting more youth, pace and hunger in the team rather than the experienced approach.

Similar to Fosum, we are an investment for Mr Lai and the only way he and the other members have any chance of gaining returns on the investment is by us being a premier league club so its in their interests more than anyone for us to get there, they arent fans, they are business people.

However they arent going for a s**t or bust approach which many other clubs have tried, they are being sensible, if the transfer window closes and we have our current squad we have on paper the strongest squad in the league (i know papers means nothing) we have replaced the players we have lost with young, hungry, quick players from elsewhere (Johnstone and Barnes) and appear to be trying to give our own youth a chance too, something most of us want to see.

Realistically we will lose a player or three between now and the window but it would appear that Big Dave will be given the funds from those sales to buy who he wants.

If Big Dave turns round and says he isnt given any funds to replace those leaving, or signs of asset stripping starts to happen, then i will be first to have an issue with Mr Lai, however the only thing he seems to of done wrong so far is trusted experienced football people to run his club (Pulis, Pardew, Williams, cant remember the other bloke) and it would seem he has learnt from that and got a bloke back in off the pitch (Jenkins) although who wasnt liked was Peaces main man for the most successful period in the last 30 odd years and a bloke managing who the fans love, who cares and who is young and hungry.

Some fair points but Mr Lai should be accountable for the utterly pointless appointment of  Terraneo which hasn’t worked . Why appoint someone and sideline them within 2 months.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 24, 2018, 07:03:24 PM
Some fair points but Mr Lai should be accountable for the utterly pointless appointment of  Terraneo which hasn’t worked . Why appoint someone and sideline them within 2 months.
because it didn't work as hoped, would you prefer it continued not working? also Lai didn't sideline him, Jenkins did.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on July 24, 2018, 09:51:22 PM
because it didn't work as hoped, would you prefer it continued not working? also Lai didn't sideline him, Jenkins did.


I know who sidelined him but he wasn’t exactly jenkins choice was he ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NathWBA on July 24, 2018, 11:37:45 PM
Sadly I think your wrong about this. Fosun are worth billions so they couldn't care less about shifting on a footballer to make a few million. They seem intent on building wolves up into one of the larger premier league sides, one of the strongest outside the champions league teams. Annoyingly they are signing high quality players on dodgy free transfers (keeper) or loan deals to give them loads of room under FFP, the Mendes link has given them unique access to a huge pool of high quality portugese players at undercut prices. No chance of them getting relegated in my view. Expect them to upset a few teams next season. Unless of course they get a horrific run of injuries. Generally you win the championship comfortably like they did and you don't get relegated the next season, most promoted clubs tend to hang around for a bit these days.
fosun can have as much money as they want the club is still bound by FFP and can only spend what the club generates, the rate they are going if they aren’t in Europe in a season or two it will all fall apart, these players being signed and big wages will not be maintained if they don’t generate the money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 24, 2018, 11:57:42 PM
FFP Means nothing at the end  those with the deepest pockets will always come out on top in football, sponsor kit, training ground and stadium are simple ways  new owners like those at dingles can increase club revenue with their own money. Nothing stopping supper rich owner from investing 1 billion pounds into club this way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 25, 2018, 12:01:03 AM
FFP Means nothing at the end  those with the deepest pockets will always come out on top in football, sponsor kit, training ground and stadium are simple ways  new owners like those at dingles can increase club revenue with their own money. Nothing stopping supper rich owner from investing 1 billion pounds into club this way.


Yes there is something stopping that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 26, 2018, 10:01:33 PM
I'm not sure where the best place to post this is, so I decided on here. Given our apparent policy that we have to sell in order to buy, I thought a couple of stats might be useful to the discussion. Firstly, the total amount of Premier League money that we received last season was £94.67m (see link below). What I don't know is if we received it in a lump sum at the end of the season or in stages throughout the season.

How much clubs get for parachute payments is more difficult to come by, but estimates seem to place it around the £40m mark in the first season after relegation.

Link: BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44150831)

Perhaps someone has some more accurate info regarding parachute payments?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 27, 2018, 01:29:27 AM
Lai should sell because it looks like he's out of his depth and seems to have no interest in club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 27, 2018, 03:20:31 AM
Lai should sell because it looks like he's out of his depth and seems to have no interest in club.

There is certainly no indication that Lai and his wealthy syndicate plan to invest substantially in the Club, as we had all hoped. IF - and it is a big IF - we do go straight back up then the owner will have to dig deeper than he could ever have imagined to attract the type of players that will be needed to keep us there, judging by the huge sums being splashed about in this transfer window. Then there is the small matter of the Financial Fair Play regulations. Investment now in talented young players would seem to be crucial.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 27, 2018, 05:59:41 AM
Lai should sell because it looks like he's out of his depth and seems to have no interest in club.

I can't see him coming to watch any game this season. Only showed his face against the big sides lase season. If he has such a big interest in the so called big four maybe he should make a offer to buy one of them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on July 27, 2018, 07:21:34 AM
so far apart from a free beer & scarf i am not impressed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on July 27, 2018, 07:24:48 AM
Lai should sell because it looks like he's out of his depth and seems to have no interest in club.

His interest is in making money so this particular vehicle has failed for him he will have to strip its assets and cut back . He will then look to sell .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2018, 07:29:31 AM
His interest is in making money so this particular vehicle has failed for him he will have to strip its assets and cut back . He will then look to sell .

How will he strip it's assets?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on July 27, 2018, 08:16:22 AM
How will he strip it's assets?

Not only do we have players we can sell the club also has properties.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 27, 2018, 08:23:48 AM
Paranoia setting in here. Why asset strip a company you've only owned for twelve months?

It's a brand new market for him.

That said, his seeming lack of involvement is disconcerting.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 27, 2018, 08:46:25 AM
He can't personally strip any assets.
,we've discussed this at length before.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2018, 09:52:28 AM
Not only do we have players we can sell the club also has properties.

The combined value of both wouldn't come to £150 million. There is no way GL would get his money back.

In any event asset stripping a football club is a myth, the only way you could asset strip a football club is to buy it at way below it's value, & then sell off it's assets for a profit. GL has paid top dollar for the Albion, it's in his interests to make it work.

Personally, I don't think he sees the Albion as a profit centre, it's a means to get global exposure to his Palm business, that's why they withdrew sponsorship when we were relegated.

WBA is a stand alone business in the GL empire, any investment in new players will have to be generated by the football club.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 27, 2018, 10:10:06 AM
He can't personally strip any assets.
,we've discussed this at length before.

Personally he probably can't, but if he owns the majority of the club shares he could 'streamline' our property portfolio [for example].

I am not saying that this is going to happen, but all you have to do is look at what happened to Coventry City with Sisu, or prior to that the bright idea of selling Highfield road to see what could happen. Even a glance across at the plight of the vile sobers you up. Had they won that play off final they would be unbearable right now.

Its all down to good management, and I am not sure we have that in place at present. There is no doubt that we have a fiscal overlord......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2018, 10:32:34 AM
Personally he probably can't, but if he owns the majority of the club shares he could 'streamline' our property portfolio [for example].

I am not saying that this is going to happen, but all you have to do is look at what happened to Coventry City with Sisu, or prior to that the bright idea of selling Highfield road to see what could happen. Even a glance across at the plight of the vile sobers you up. Had they won that play off final they would be unbearable right now.

Its all down to good management, and I am not sure we have that in place at present. There is no doubt that we have a fiscal overlord......

Our monetry policy now is first class, it's where that sits relative to the objective of getting promoted that's the problem.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 27, 2018, 10:57:10 AM
Our monetry policy now is first class, it's where that sits relative to the objective of getting promoted that's the problem.

Certainly looks to be the way John, and it does make you think about when Peace was here and we were all complaining about how tight he was, and the one year the brakes were off we spent like lottery winners and promptly got relegated!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 27, 2018, 11:05:56 AM
Saw a comment yesterday on the Express and Star website so no idea if there's any truth in it or whether its complete bull so don't give me grief !! 8)

Not the exact wording as I can't find the comment but others may have seen it but the jist was -

That the purchase of the club was circa £175m spread over 3 years but dependent on us staying in the Prem. The poster stated that as we had gone down then Peace would be lucky to see around £80m

As I said maybe complete bull, I have no idea.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 27, 2018, 11:13:51 AM
Saw a comment yesterday on the Express and Star website so no idea if there's any truth in it or whether its complete bull so don't give me grief !! 8)

Not the exact wording as I can't find the comment but others may have seen it but the jist was -

That the purchase of the club was circa £175m spread over 3 years but dependent on us staying in the Prem. The poster stated that as we had gone down then Peace would be lucky to see around £80m

As I said maybe complete bull, I have no idea.
don't think that is possible but if it is then selling club to idiots does have consequences  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 27, 2018, 11:16:23 AM
Found it

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/07/26/funds-raised-to-complete-west-broms-three-degrees-statue-after-pfa-donation/

It's obvious that the Board have a different mid term plan to our Head Coach. The Posh Chairman laid that one out for all to see.

I want to put something on record. First hand, I can tell you that the acquisition sale figures of £175m + is well off the mark.

The sale fee was based over 3 years, and guess what, staying in the PL was part of the deal...Fact.

Don't get me wrong, JP did very well on his inital investment but he will not see north of £80m.

Again, this is first hand...The new owners don't have to do much to rinse £40-£50m out of the club and then sell on for £40m.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 27, 2018, 11:20:30 AM
Saw a comment yesterday on the Express and Star website so no idea if there's any truth in it or whether its complete bull so don't give me grief !! 8)

Not the exact wording as I can't find the comment but others may have seen it but the jist was -

That the purchase of the club was circa £175m spread over 3 years but dependent on us staying in the Prem. The poster stated that as we had gone down then Peace would be lucky to see around £80m

As I said maybe complete bull, I have no idea.
First time I have ever heard of that TBH, but it does make sense when you think about it. And here we are thinking that Jezza rode off into the sunset with £200m!

If there is any truth in that then we may need to reconsider the asset stripping comments!!! He can easily get £80m back.... [ and before you point it out, I am fully aware of the earlier conversation about what a company/director can and cannot do]
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 27, 2018, 11:30:27 AM
Found it

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/07/26/funds-raised-to-complete-west-broms-three-degrees-statue-after-pfa-donation/

It's obvious that the Board have a different mid term plan to our Head Coach. The Posh Chairman laid that one out for all to see.

I want to put something on record. First hand, I can tell you that the acquisition sale figures of £175m + is well off the mark.

The sale fee was based over 3 years, and guess what, staying in the PL was part of the deal...Fact.

Don't get me wrong, JP did very well on his inital investment but he will not see north of £80m.

Again, this is first hand...The new owners don't have to do much to rinse £40-£50m out of the club and then sell on for £40m.


Wrong link mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 27, 2018, 11:32:25 AM
Wrong link mate.

Its in the comments at the bottom not the actual article
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 27, 2018, 11:37:48 AM
Its in the comments at the bottom not the actual article

cool, thankyou
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on July 27, 2018, 11:44:27 AM
The club are obviously cutting back. Not sure why anyone didn't believe GL when he said he'd run the club prudently i.e. only using money the club had? This is what he's done/ is doing. He's simply not going to invest in the club himself - time or money wise - his actions confirm that.

I'm not surprised but we're in exactly the same place as a club we would've been with JP in my view although we did lose JP's experience of leading the club for 10 years when he left. For me this is why we went down , we had John Williams instead of JP making decisions. We'll see whether Mark Jenkins can turn it around.

However, it's clear we're being run like any other prudent business so don't expect us to sign big unless we sell big.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 27, 2018, 11:57:17 AM
Found it

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/07/26/funds-raised-to-complete-west-broms-three-degrees-statue-after-pfa-donation/

It's obvious that the Board have a different mid term plan to our Head Coach. The Posh Chairman laid that one out for all to see.

I want to put something on record. First hand, I can tell you that the acquisition sale figures of £175m + is well off the mark.

The sale fee was based over 3 years, and guess what, staying in the PL was part of the deal...Fact.

Don't get me wrong, JP did very well on his inital investment but he will not see north of £80m.

Again, this is first hand...The new owners don't have to do much to rinse £40-£50m out of the club and then sell on for £40m.


You wouldn't get that kind of money from fixed assets, the only way you would raise that kind of cash is by selling players.
In that case would you put a release clause of £3.5 million on one of your most valuable players?

Also, there is no evidence to date, that we're trying to sell our most valuable players.

Just saying!

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 27, 2018, 12:21:51 PM
Don't believe this for a minute, there is no way Peace postured for over 2 years to then only walk away with £80 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aixelsyd on July 27, 2018, 12:24:14 PM
Seriously... you believe that????

So you sell your business and agree to spread payment over three years...


Oh and if the new owner stuffs up they don't have to pay!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 27, 2018, 12:27:30 PM
Erm,
Pay £150m or get relegated and pay 80m,
then get promoted and asset is now worth £150m (plus ?)

Highly dangerous strategy but would explain why we gave up early
Would not explain Sturridge / Krychowiak
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on July 27, 2018, 12:28:04 PM
Hopefully he sells the club soon. Only one interview since he acquired the club. Shocking. Nothing from the new chairman. Terrible leadership from above.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 27, 2018, 12:44:33 PM
Copied it for all to see;

I want to put something on record. First hand, I can tell you that the acquisition sale figures of £175m + is well off the mark.

The sale fee was based over 3 years, and guess what, staying in the PL was part of the deal...Fact.

Don't get me wrong, JP did very well on his inital investment but he will not see north of £80m.

Again, this is first hand...The new owners don't have to do much to rinse £40-£50m out of the club and then sell on for £40m.


The author seems to be ITK.....we will all find out in due course I guess.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 27, 2018, 12:56:34 PM
Copied it for all to see;

I want to put something on record. First hand, I can tell you that the acquisition sale figures of £175m + is well off the mark.

The sale fee was based over 3 years, and guess what, staying in the PL was part of the deal...Fact.

Don't get me wrong, JP did very well on his inital investment but he will not see north of £80m.

Again, this is first hand...The new owners don't have to do much to rinse £40-£50m out of the club and then sell on for £40m.


The author seems to be ITK.....we will all find out in due course I guess.

While I’m not doubting the credibility of the author, who in their right mind would sign up to a deal where the sale price depends on factors wholly outside the control of the seller? I mean honestly, I know folk gave a fairly low regard for JP, but does anyone think he was that stupid?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on July 27, 2018, 12:58:54 PM
Copied it for all to see;

I want to put something on record. First hand, I can tell you that the acquisition sale figures of £175m + is well off the mark.

The sale fee was based over 3 years, and guess what, staying in the PL was part of the deal...Fact.

Don't get me wrong, JP did very well on his inital investment but he will not see north of £80m.

Again, this is first hand...The new owners don't have to do much to rinse £40-£50m out of the club and then sell on for £40m.


The author seems to be ITK.....we will all find out in due course I guess.

Chris Lepkowski is also still ITK, especially as he was at the club at the time, and he still says the purchase price was north of what has been reported.

Although I think Lai needs to cut his losses and sell to a more interested party, I worry that the fact he would lose face in China might mean he sticks around and breaks us more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 27, 2018, 01:03:06 PM
While I’m not doubting the credibility of the author, who in their right mind would sign up to a deal where the sale price depends on factors wholly outside the control of the seller? I mean honestly, I know folk gave a fairly low regard for JP, but does anyone think he was that stupid?

I agree with you. What I do not know is how much JP actually put into the club in the first place. For example if it was £40m and he received £80m, the he has made a wonderful profit. However, if it was north of £80m and this is true then he may make a loss and that definitely will not happen with JP.

Having said all that, does anyone really think our club is worth £175 - 200m? The vile was bought at around the same time for £60m; I assume part of the reason was because they were also buying a debt which would have been offset, but there is a big difference in sale price for two clubs that are equal [ish - I do know they won something in 1982]
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 27, 2018, 01:06:43 PM
Copied it for all to see;

I want to put something on record. First hand, I can tell you that the acquisition sale figures of £175m + is well off the mark.

The sale fee was based over 3 years, and guess what, staying in the PL was part of the deal...Fact.

Don't get me wrong, JP did very well on his inital investment but he will not see north of £80m.

Again, this is first hand...The new owners don't have to do much to rinse £40-£50m out of the club and then sell on for £40m.


The author seems to be ITK.....we will all find out in due course I guess.

I don't read the comments section of the Express and Star on a regular basis.

But on what grounds do you think 'Oswestry Baggie' seems to be ITK please?

Surprised they haven't edited/deleted his/her post to be honest.

He/she/the E+D may be looking at a potential law suit there.

If true they've leaked details of a major financial deal, if not they're speculating on 'self generated hearsay' (ie, bullshine).

Does anyone know what Neil Reynolds of former Shareholders for Albion fame is up to these days?

Not that I'm implying anything of course Mr Reynolds or 'advisors' (clears throat  ;) ) .

For the record there is no way on this earth that I could ever imagine JP agreeing to such a clause when he'd have absolutely no control over the outcome.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 27, 2018, 01:09:16 PM
I know folk gave a fairly low regard for JP, but does anyone think he was that stupid?

I don't think anyone thinks Peace is anything other than a very sharp business man, with major financial motivations.

People's doubts are around some his sharpest practices and whether he did things in the interest of JP rather than WBAFA.

Peace certainly isn't 'stupid'.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 27, 2018, 01:18:27 PM
I agree with you. What I do not know is how much JP actually put into the club in the first place. For example if it was £40m and he received £80m, the he has made a wonderful profit. However, if it was north of £80m and this is true then he may make a loss and that definitely will not happen with JP.

Having said all that, does anyone really think our club is worth £175 - 200m? The vile was bought at around the same time for £60m; I assume part of the reason was because they were also buying a debt which would have been offset, but there is a big difference in sale price for two clubs that are equal [ish - I do know they won something in 1982]

Peace did make an initial investment - to buy out Thompson.  But he got that back when he did the 1st share issue.  Plus his new shares were paid for by a company loan that the football club paid for.  Subsequent share issues and consolidation provided further reward to Peace, while down-valuing the club (after relegations) and moping up the shares at the low price.  (I think - from memory - he valued the club at £12m last time we were in the championship.)  Then there's his salary which grew to £1.8m in his last season - you can probably say that accounted for £10-15m over his tenure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 27, 2018, 01:22:49 PM
I don't read the comments section of the Express and Star on a regular basis.

But on what grounds do you think 'Oswestry Baggie' seems to be ITK please?

Surprised they haven't edited/deleted his/her post to be honest.

He/she/the E+D may be looking at a potential law suit there.

If true they've leaked details of a major financial deal, if not they're speculating on 'self generated hearsay' (ie, bullshine).

Does anyone know what Neil Reynolds of former Shareholders for Albion fame is up to these days?

Not that I'm implying anything of course Mr Reynolds or 'advisors' (clears throat  ;) ) .

For the record there is no way on this earth that I could ever imagine JP agreeing to such a clause when he'd have absolutely no control over the outcome.

Well, he has used the phrase 'first hand' twice, and he has gone all 'Rafa' on us by using the term 'Fact' - I don't know any more than you on this one, just my thoughts on the article. Its not exactly 'I heard it from a bloke down the pub, his brothers mates friend said....'

I personally don't think JP is stupid, he is exactly the opposite......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 27, 2018, 01:30:38 PM
Peace can (rightly) point out that making major player investments - in the wrong players - only happened once he was no longer contracted as a consultant.  I'd like to totally blame Pulis for them, but it's pretty clear that Burke is not a Pulis-type purchase and you'd have to put that down to Hammond.  (Might make financial sense one day.)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 27, 2018, 02:24:42 PM
Seriously... you believe that????

So you sell your business and agree to spread payment over three years...


Oh and if the new owner stuffs up they don't have to pay!!!

Selling a business and agreeing to accept stage payments is common practice, provided that the price is guaranteed.  If the buyer defaults in payments then the seller would usually pocket what’s been paid so far and then take back the shares.

That’s totally different though to a sale price which is heavily influenced by what the new owner does after the seller has left.  I agree with other posters - there is no way that a shrewd businessman like Peace would even consider such a deal.

I would say that it is far more likely that Peace would now want to buy the club back at a heavily discounted price!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 27, 2018, 02:37:16 PM
Selling a business and agreeing to accept stage payments is common practice, provided that the price is guaranteed.  If the buyer defaults in payments then the seller would usually pocket what’s been paid so far and then take back the shares.

That’s totally different though to a sale price which is heavily influenced by what the new owner does after the seller has left.  I agree with other posters - there is no way that a shrewd businessman like Peace would even consider such a deal.

I would say that it is far more likely that Peace would now want to buy the club back at a heavily discounted price!

And let’s not forget that JP would also have a team of savvy advisers working in the deal with him, he’s not the sort (from my reading of him over the years) to “go naked into the negotiating chamber”.

Whoever that story originates with then they are peddling nonsense in my view.

I’ll say it again. No seller would negotiate a deal where the final sale price is determined by elements totally outside if their control (unless they were the UK government negotiating Brexit but that’s another story) least if all someone who, as many have pointed out, has built a considerable fortune on the back of minimal investment as JP has at the Albion.

Unless he has had a bang on the head or now lives on a diet of stupid pills Peace would never have negotiated the deal being suggested.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VVVAlbion on July 27, 2018, 10:57:47 PM
When an anonymous poster writes FACT on a forum it is usually bull. FACT.  8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 27, 2018, 11:35:33 PM
Unless he has had a bang on the head or now lives on a diet of stupid pills Peace would never have negotiated the deal being suggested.
Given that Albion didn't ultimately cost him anything, whether or not he walked away with £80m or £170m seems fairly moot. If any of us were going to get £80m as a personal reward for no investment, I doubt that anyone would complain!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 27, 2018, 11:47:29 PM
Given that Albion didn't ultimately cost him anything, whether or not he walked away with £80m or £170m seems fairly moot. If any of us were going to get £80m as a personal reward for no investment, I doubt that anyone would complain!

We're not on about one of us though, we're posting about Jeremy Tightass Pantsus Peace  ;) . Do you honestly think old tight nappy would walk away from £Stupid,000,000s+ on the basis that something may/may not happen?

This is the former chairman who gave us a three year rolling spending plan based on incoming revenue. There's no way on this Godly earth that JP would sanction a clause with no guarantees, it's just not in his DNA. And if he did he must be fkn stupid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on July 28, 2018, 12:58:26 AM
Let us hope that Mr Lai reads the message boards and learns all the useful information from so many ‘in the know’ as to how to run the football club. He may decide that this was not the right deal and that there are so many other opportunities in the UK for an entrepreneurial businessman! Maybe Messrs Williams and Hammond lead him down the wrong garden centre path? Hey ho, though, life can be full of surprises, Mr Lai May end up being the shining light in a Championship winning season..........!

Unsurprisingly, however, I’m not a betting man.

No disrespect aimed at anybody.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 28, 2018, 01:10:17 AM
Indeed.

I'm sure he'd find many of your own posts most helpful in that regard too, no disrespect intended  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on July 28, 2018, 06:51:17 AM
Given that Albion didn't ultimately cost him anything, whether or not he walked away with £80m or £170m seems fairly moot. If any of us were going to get £80m as a personal reward for no investment, I doubt that anyone would complain!

Honestly? You really think you wouldn’t mind getting £80m instead of £170m? I don’t doubt the sincerity of your post but I do find that hard to believe.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 28, 2018, 08:21:30 AM
This is the former chairman who gave us a three year rolling spending plan based on incoming revenue. There's no way on this Godly earth that JP would sanction a clause with no guarantees, it's just not in his DNA. And if he did he must be fkn stupid.
Perhaps (and I'm only speculating) it was the only deal in town and Peace really wanted to walk away at that time? He may have felt that there was little chance of us going down in that timeframe so, in order to get the deal through, he agreed to that clause. £80m would still be a massive amount of money to him, coming on the back of no outlay.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 28, 2018, 08:55:19 AM
Copied it for all to see;

I want to put something on record. First hand, I can tell you that the acquisition sale figures of £175m + is well off the mark.

The sale fee was based over 3 years, and guess what, staying in the PL was part of the deal...Fact.

Don't get me wrong, JP did very well on his inital investment but he will not see north of £80m.

Again, this is first hand...The new owners don't have to do much to rinse £40-£50m out of the club and then sell on for £40m.


The author seems to be ITK.....we will all find out in due course I guess.

There may be something in this, just surprised it's not come out before though.

I believe it would be difficult for the owner to "rinse out £40 to £50 million" within the regulations, & without putting the club in jeopardy, & then making it difficult to sell.

The policy appears to be for the club to be self financing, within that policy, there should be enough resource within the club to make a significant bid for promotion next season.
Short term, that would appear to be GL's best option.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 232kev on July 30, 2018, 02:45:14 PM
Do you think we will get a free pint on Saturday 😋🍺
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 30, 2018, 05:57:17 PM
I was shot down on here for saying greedy Peace was asking too much for us. Wolves went for £30m Villa for £60m. Both have bigger grounds.
I worry that if Lai was gullible enough to meet Jeremiahs price, then he isn't a whizzkid at all.
As for Peace selling us to the right owner was rubbish talk, he has only ever been interested in one thing, money.
Baggies fan my backside.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 30, 2018, 06:46:15 PM
Do you think we will get a free pint on Saturday 😋🍺
here he wants the fans to buy him the beer as he's broke :-[
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BRIAN on July 30, 2018, 06:50:00 PM
I think if you knew Peace better you would know he was a truer Albion fan. His advantage over most was he had a financial brain and kept the Albion solvent.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on July 30, 2018, 06:56:04 PM
I think if you knew Peace better you would know he was a truer Albion fan. His advantage over most was he had a financial brain and kept the Albion solvent.

I think if he was a true Albion fan he would have used his own money to buy the club and not use the clubs finances to do it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 30, 2018, 07:26:24 PM
I think if he was a true Albion fan he would have used his own money to buy the club and not use the clubs finances to do it.

What difference did it make?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 30, 2018, 07:29:01 PM
Sir Jack a true Wolves fan sold them for a tenner hoping Morgan would invest heavily in them.
Jeremiah sold us for £180m to a startled rabbit.
Work it out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 30, 2018, 07:43:28 PM
Not sure Peace can be held accountable for the actions of others

Lai came with good intentions and spoke of protecting the club & its finances.

Not sure how you expect him to have noticed that he would not give a monkeys in our speedy decline

Still, dont let it  stop you knocking the man who over saw a successful period for this football club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 30, 2018, 08:54:31 PM
Not sure Peace can be held accountable for the actions of others

Lai came with good intentions and spoke of protecting the club & its finances.

Not sure how you expect him to have noticed that he would not give a monkeys in our speedy decline

Still, dont let it  stop you knocking the man who over saw a successful period for this football club

The criticism of JP is fully merited. He was a custodian of our football club, a club he acquired for next to no investment. Plainly he was going to make a packet when he sold up after managing the club very well during his tenure. So he gets a lot of credit for that. However that doesn't mean he shouldn't be hammered for selling the club to an owner who no scope to invest in the club. Supposedly conglomerate FOSUN were sniffing around Albion around the same time but they we're able to acquire Wolves a much lower sum. Mainly because Steve Morgan then in charge of Wolves elected to take a hit and to sell on the cheap (still left him very wealthy). Whereas Peace put maximising his own profit above the future of the club and disappeared into the sunset. Had he really been interested in the future of the club he could have mandated a purchase price of £150m but strictly on the basis that he took £50m and the £100m went into the club for facilities, a safety fund etc. He had plenty of options to leave a lasting legacy but prioritised maximising his personal gain.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 30, 2018, 08:55:21 PM
Not sure Peace can be held accountable for the actions of others

Lai came with good intentions and spoke of protecting the club & its finances.

Not sure how you expect him to have noticed that he would not give a monkeys in our speedy decline

Still, dont let it  stop you knocking the man who over saw a successful period for this football club

Exactly, Sir Jack the superb owner who spent loads but couldn’t get the wolves out the 1st division. Managed to once but then spent nothing and finished bottom.

Or evil Jeremy who over saw the clubs most successful period for 35 years.

Hard choice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 30, 2018, 08:59:32 PM
The criticism of JP is fully merited. He was a custodian of our football club, a club he acquired for next to no investment. Plainly he was going to make a packet when he sold up after managing the club very well during his tenure. So he gets a lot of credit for that. However that doesn't mean he shouldn't be hammered for selling the club to an owner who no scope to invest in the club. Supposedly conglomerate FOSUN were sniffing around Albion around the same time but they we're able to acquire Wolves a much lower sum. Mainly because Steve Morgan then in charge of Wolves elected to take a hit and to sell on the cheap (still left him very wealthy). Whereas Peace put maximising his own profit above the future of the club and disappeared into the sunset. Had he really been interested in the future of the club he could have mandated a purchase price of £150m but strictly on the basis that he took £50m and the £100m went into the club for facilities, a safety fund etc. He had plenty of options to leave a lasting legacy but prioritised maximising his personal gain.

Cloud cuckoo land mate, I’m Albion through and through but if someone was going to pay me £200m or someone was going to pay me £70m I’d pick the £200m.

Also how do you know that Lai didn’t tell Peace everything he wanted to hear about what he was going to do for the club? Not hard to tell someone a pack of lies if you want something so bad.

Not saying he has told a pack of lies but like Liam said you can’t hold Peace accountable for what has happened after he left. By the way I don’t think Lai has done a fat lot wrong, not his fault the people he put in charge of football said failed and when they did he got rid of them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 30, 2018, 09:14:35 PM
Cloud cuckoo land mate, I’m Albion through and through but if someone was going to pay me £200m or someone was going to pay me £70m I’d pick the £200m.

Also how do you know that Lai didn’t tell Peace everything he wanted to hear about what he was going to do for the club? Not hard to tell someone a pack of lies if you want something so bad.

Not saying he has told a pack of lies but like Liam said you can’t hold Peace accountable for what has happened after he left. By the way I don’t think Lai has done a fat lot wrong, not his fault the people he put in charge of football said failed and when they did he got rid of them.

So you’d just make sure you were as rich as possible even if the club would be better off and you’d still get £70m? What kind of fan is that? Look at Steve Gibson at Boro. Plenty of successful businessman who love their club and find a balance. Moving off topic slightly I broadly agree with your assessment of Lai and his decisions. My problem with him isn’t his management it’s that Peace supposedly sold us as he couldn’t take us any further yet Lai has no greater resources or ambition - which is more a criticism of JP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 30, 2018, 09:28:32 PM
So you’d just make sure you were as rich as possible even if the club would be better off and you’d still get £70m? What kind of fan is that? Look at Steve Gibson at Boro. Plenty of successful businessman who love their club and find a balance. Moving off topic slightly I broadly agree with your assessment of Lai and his decisions. My problem with him isn’t his management it’s that Peace supposedly sold us as he couldn’t take us any further yet Lai has no greater resources or ambition - which is more a criticism of JP.

Like I say though how can you blame Peace for that, you don’t know what the conversation went like, he could have told Peace he was going to invest £50m into the club. Peace can only take his word for it, not saying that is what happened but until we know it’s a bit harsh just to blame it all on Peace.

Also the Chinese government have really clamped down on money leaving the country and that is why Dr Tony at Villa got in the problems he did because he couldn’t put get any more money out the country. FOSUN don’t have that problem as they have money and companies all over the world.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 30, 2018, 09:59:34 PM
Like I say though how can you blame Peace for that, you don’t know what the conversation went like, he could have told Peace he was going to invest £50m into the club. Peace can only take his word for it, not saying that is what happened but until we know it’s a bit harsh just to blame it all on Peace.

Also the Chinese government have really clamped down on money leaving the country and that is why Dr Tony at Villa got in the problems he did because he couldn’t put get any more money out the country. FOSUN don’t have that problem as they have money and companies all over the world.

A contractual agreement to invest in the club could have been agreed, far from  impossible to sort out. Your second paragraph is kind of my point, we would have been better off with the conglomerate with billions all over the World than Lai (or Dr Tony for that matter).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on July 30, 2018, 10:05:38 PM
He's yet to invest anything in the team or stadium as far as I'm aware ? It's just been the normal revenue used to spend.
Wonder if he will invest in our Club ? When as the last time we had some outside investment ? Thompson ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 30, 2018, 10:05:47 PM
How much money did Jeremiah put into the club?
How much did he take out? Two simple questions.

I think the Halfords needs a new coat of paint by the way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on July 30, 2018, 10:10:02 PM
A contractual agreement to invest in the club could have been agreed, far from  impossible to sort out. Your second paragraph is kind of my point, we would have been better off with the conglomerate with billions all over the World than Lai (or Dr Tony for that matter).
I believe Sir Jack Haywood sold Wolves for £10 but Morgan had to invest £30m so it's been one before.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 30, 2018, 10:13:44 PM
How much money did Jeremiah put into the club?
How much did he take out? Two simple questions.

I think the Halfords needs a new coat of paint by the way.

But as long as we did well on the pitch which compared to the 20 years before we did under his leadership why does it bother you that much?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 30, 2018, 10:27:08 PM
But as long as we did well on the pitch which compared to the 20 years before we did under his leadership why does it bother you that much?

It’s his legacy we are criticising not his management during his tenure, not that hard to grasp.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on July 30, 2018, 11:34:35 PM
I think Jeremys legacy will be he sold us as an established premier league club, with a nice ground, top notch training facilities, a top level rated academy, players in the squad on reputation who years ago we could only dream of.

He sold it to a group reportedly worth billions, who never were going to throw endless cash at it, but who seem to have a plan of developing the Albion name through their eco towns and to young generations in the far east where football is starting to take off.

As far as i can tell, the new owners spent more money on transfers and wages last season than ever before , and on paper that squad should not of been in the bottom 3.

We didnt make any cutbacks last year, as our income grew, we spent, whether we spent it on the right players / management is another subject completely, just because the owners have lots of money it doesnt mean they have to spend it, our signings last year should of been more than able to kick us on from the previous seasons slump.

If Peace did put nothing in and made a huge profit, good luck to him, i wish i was that savvy, as leeiswba pointed out, the club is a hundred times better off than it was years ago, Thompson started the turnaround and Peace carried it on.

I have no doubt Peace was a wealthy man anyway, but he was running a business, a very successful one, after been a chairman and developing that business into one of the top 10 clubs in the country, should he walk away and say i did it for the love of it? I dont think a chairman of any top performing business would do that.

Peace did well out of it, but it it was £1m, £10m or £1000m some people would say he had too much, he ran a successful and prosperous business and sold it on, it happens all the time, he may be a fan but he is also a businessman.

Peace wasnt perfect and made many mistakes in his time, same as every human being, but to put any blame for the clubs meltdown last year at this door i dont think is correct.

I think Lai was probably naive, he trusted experienced football people and whether it just didnt work out or these people took the p**s out of his lack of knowledge, we dont really know but it seems he didnt mess about sacking them when he realised.

Clubs like Albion have a shelf life in the premier league, it doesnt make it right but we were always going to go down at some point as we just make up the numbers, i would be shocked if in the next few years current 'established' premier league clubs like a Leicester, Bournemouth (both wealthy owners) a Burnley (similar to us) dont get relegated, its not the owners fault, it happens eventually, its how you regroup and bounce back and we wont know the answer to that til the end of this season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 31, 2018, 06:10:31 AM
"Clubs like Albion?"
Thats another part of his legacy, to make us feel grateful. You won't hear Wolves fans talk like that. You are what you eat.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 31, 2018, 07:20:09 AM
"Clubs like Albion?"
Thats another part of his legacy, to make us feel grateful. You won't hear Wolves fans talk like that. You are what you eat.
couldn't agree more, they should have sign up over Astle gates "mid table championship club" to keep the peasants in their place.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on July 31, 2018, 07:47:17 AM
I can't stand this guy he is everything that is wrong with modern football. I would put a couple of grand on it that he won't attend any matches this season. I bet he was rubbing his hands together when he discovered Jenkins was happy to return and keep a firm grip on the purse strings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on July 31, 2018, 09:17:35 AM
'Clubs like Albion' is the right term unfortunately.

To us fans the club is special, nobody else could care less in modern day football.

If we want to be competing with the best the premier league and europe are the place to be, next week the premier league kicks off, we all know before a ball is kicked that one of  Man United, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham or Liverpool will win the league with three others from that group taking up the champions league place.

It will be the same next season, and the season after, and the season after. Every other club know they can finish between 7th and 20th, you are one bad season away from being relegated without ever having the chance to win the league - Bolton, Middlesboro, Wigan, Blackburn, Villa, to name a few, all established premier league clubs who went down, we followed the pattern, it happens eventually.

That isnt anything that Albion have done wrong, or the other 85 professional clubs in the country, its just since the premier league took off the door is closed at the top, Blackburn won the league when it first started and Leicester won it but in the 25 odd years of the premier league i think the winner has come from the top 6 clubs. Even more so now as they get richer but other than Leicester, i cannot think of a club outside the usual top 6 who have made the champions league in the last 10-12 years.

I wish i could see Albion teams of the 50's, 60's and 70's who won stuff, entertained, etc or at the start of the season think we may win the premier league but modern day football just doesnt allow it to be done at the very top, like say above, thats not just Albion, its the same for pretty much every other club.

When Lai took over for his first full pre-season we had just finished 10th (after being 8th for ages we messed it up last day) we added an england left back (Gibbs) one of the most successful midfielders in europe of recent years (Greg) a striker who was quality before a couple of injuries (JRod) a midfielder who had won everything and was very well respected and appreciated at every club he had been at (Barry) broke our transfer record to sign a potentially top winger (Burke) all additions that on paper should of at least cemented a top 10 finish and you would hope adding to what we had, meant we could push on in the cups.

As it happens most of those signings didnt work out, managers were sacked and we got relegated, but that was all on the pitch.

Genuine question, with modern day football how it sadly is, what do people think Lai's ambitions should be? What do fans want him to do?

As a side note regarding Wolves, said it previous, actions speak louder than words. There has been many a false dawn at the custard bowl, nobody gets carried away quite like a dingle and then goes into meltdown when it doesnt work. They added that new tier to their ground a few years ago, it wasnt until Xmas just gone it had anybody actually in it when they won a few games, Give it a season or two and if they are back down it will be empty again.

I believe FOSUN had a meeting last week didnt they and they have already started to try and calm the Wolves fans down a bit by saying they wont be chucking unlimited funds at it, they are in it for the long term, want to build and develop the club properly, etc, ie - doing what pretty much what every other club in the country is trying to do, FOSUN didnt make billions by wasting money on stuff.

That is definitely one thing Lai could do better is communicate more because some fans love to hear that sort of stuff, like i say me personally i dont care what he says, its what he does, but everybody is different so i understand plenty like to hear what he says.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on July 31, 2018, 09:24:08 AM
An excellent appraisal of the situation, Albion79
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 31, 2018, 12:23:54 PM
1. Genuine question, with modern day football how it sadly is, what do people think Lai's ambitions should be? What do fans want him to do?.......

2. .......one thing Lai could do better is communicate more because some fans love to hear that sort of stuff, like i say me personally i dont care what he says, its what he does, but everybody is different so i understand plenty like to hear what he says.

1. Honestly don't think he's done much wrong beyond trusting the keys to the pantry to the wrong people for too long.
He and/or his eyes on the ground Li Piyue should have done better there.

2. Agree communications could and should be more effective, but we have an eloquent if strangely quite Mr Swain for that.
In Mr Swains defence though, Mr Lai made it perfectly clear from very early days that he'd continue to run the club along self financing lines.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 31, 2018, 01:49:02 PM
It’s his legacy we are criticising not his management during his tenure, not that hard to grasp.

As Albion79 points out

This is Jeremy Peace's legacy:

I think Jeremys legacy will be he sold us as an established premier league club, with a nice ground, top notch training facilities, a top level rated academy, players in the squad on reputation who years ago we could only dream of.

Not the pennies and pence of selling a football club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: P Anderson on July 31, 2018, 02:11:05 PM
100% agree with your assessment of the situation Albion 79
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on July 31, 2018, 02:26:43 PM
So you’d just make sure you were as rich as possible even if the club would be better off and you’d still get £70m? What kind of fan is that? Look at Steve Gibson at Boro. Plenty of successful businessman who love their club and find a balance. Moving off topic slightly I broadly agree with your assessment of Lai and his decisions. My problem with him isn’t his management it’s that Peace supposedly sold us as he couldn’t take us any further yet Lai has no greater resources or ambition - which is more a criticism of JP.

He owned the club....it was worth 200m he got that, he does have other businesses whihc he may be sinking the money into

If you would only take 70m when offered 200m then I have really dont know what to say to that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on July 31, 2018, 02:51:32 PM
Good post Albion79. I do feel for our younger fans, I was privileged to see the teams of the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s, watched us win the League Cup and FA Cup. I have two sons, who haven’t seen us win a major trophy and they ask me what the experience was like?I have a grandson, who will be attending his first competitive game on Saturday, he is aged 4. I would love to live long enough to witness us wining a cup with him and my two sons.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 31, 2018, 03:10:19 PM
Great post Albion 79. Spot on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 31, 2018, 07:13:13 PM
As Albion79 points out: I think Jeremys legacy will be he sold us as an established premier league club, with a nice ground, top notch training facilities, a top level rated academy, players in the squad on reputation who years ago we could only dream of.

The ground is tiny and lop-sided with ugly steel girders in the East Stand. The training ground is not "top notch" - far from it. We were due to spend a further £250k on it this summer but scrapped that on relegation which sums up how small time we have been. It's average training facilities at best. The academy is a tier 1, agree with that praise, albeit I think we are one of 20 odd clubs with that. As for the squad they just got us relegated, couldn't give two hoots about "reputation", this isn't championship manager.

The lavish praise of Peace from a few is ridiculously over the top, we're a decent sized club who could be bigger, not Walsall FC. The mentality of some our fans to be grateful for ever crumb thrown down is laughable. One of the reasons West Bromwich itself is poor and a dump.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on July 31, 2018, 07:30:28 PM
The ground is tiny and lop-sided with ugly steel girders in the East Stand. The training ground is not "top notch" - far from it. We were due to spend a further £250k on it this summer but scrapped that on relegation which sums up how small time we have been. It's average training facilities at best. The academy is a tier 1, agree with that praise, albeit I think we are one of 20 odd clubs with that. As for the squad they just got us relegated, couldn't give two hoots about "reputation", this isn't championship manager.

The lavish praise of Peace from a few is ridiculously over the top, we're a decent sized club who could be bigger, not Walsall FC. The mentality of some our fans to be grateful for ever crumb thrown down is laughable. One of the reasons West Bromwich itself is poor and a dump.

Just when you thought you had read it all ;D  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 31, 2018, 07:37:36 PM
We were a big club in my time, we have shrunk over the years, none more so than under Peace. He made the club smaller, he told the fans we were a small cub punching above it's weight. Those born in the 80's and 90's believed it, because this mediocre team were the best they had seen.
The man was an illusionist.
Most of our existence  has been in the top flight. Now our young fans see Stoke, Leicester and feckin Bournemouth as bigger clubs. They haven't won as much or have a better pedigree than us all lumped together.
Stop being subservants to a money sucking leech.

I know this thread is about Lai, but what is there to say?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 31, 2018, 08:16:16 PM
I keep hoping every time I open this thread, he’s either spoken to us, and promised to improve etc, or he’s selling up! Unlikely on both counts
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on July 31, 2018, 08:18:31 PM
Is acknowledging somebody did a good job lavish praise?

I dont think there is any love-in for peace, he made plenty of mistakes, but when he took over we were a struggling championship club, with poor players, a non existent youth setup and gates around the 15-16k mark, again Thompson did a lot of the ground work and Peace carried it on and get very well rewarded for doing so, same as every other successful CEO / Chairman.

When he left we were a established premier league club, with a squad full on internationals (my last post clearly said, based on reputation, as we found out that didnt count for much) a youth setup that sold a player for £12m not long ago, has players on the fringe of the squad and gates 20k plus.

As for the training ground, through my work i get to go to quite a lot of football clubs training grounds and whilst the likes of the Manchester City's, Liverpools, etc are another level up, ours isnt far off been the best there is for everybody else, its quality, i think the £250k was being spent to boost equipment, facelift, etc rather than a revamp.

I dont think anybody sees Stoke, Leicester and Bournemouth as bigger clubs, they are now the same as us, making up the numbers, its s**t but its modern day football. We were once a big club, we have a very proud history, we have loyal fans, we have won trophies but in modern football many clubs are the same - Villa, Wolves, Burnley, West Ham, Newcastle, there are numerous big clubs who have not won anything for years and years, we are making up the numbers.

That doesnt mean you dont try and compete, but you try with a sensible head, thats why clubs owners like Randy Lerner, Mike Ashley, they join with best intentions, stay for a few years, see how the big boys now rule the roost and want out, these are wealthy people but they know they cannot compete on a level field with the top 6.

I will ask again, in JP's time, aside from straightening up the lop sided ugly steel girders, what would you think he could of done better to leave us in a better position than 10th in the league and how we are run off the pitch?

Same applies for Lai, what can he do now to better us as a club?

That isnt asked to be bitchy, genuine question, one thing i would say Lai needs to do is get somebody on the board with actual football knowledge and somebody who cares about the club, maybe Brendan Batson? Jason Roberts seems to be a sensible bloke, knows his stuff? Maybe even speak to Scharner after what he said would like to see at the Albion, no harm in speaking to him (this may all be happening)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 31, 2018, 08:56:50 PM
IMO a Board member should be able to bring something to the party. I agree that we need someone with a football background, but they also need to have an understanding of the financial aspects.
I'm not sure where Jason Roberts fits into that profile, but certainly as an ex player & his family relationship with CR,that's not a bad shout.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 31, 2018, 08:57:16 PM
Is acknowledging somebody did a good job lavish praise?

There is balance. Your posts fawn all over Peace and come across as if he is Corberan, one step above Florence Nightingale and Nelson Mandela. I myself have said he managed the club well, that not's really a debate. However he justified the sale of the club on the basis he could take us no further and new owner could, only to sell to someone with similar resources running the same business model - a contradiction. At a time when our neighbours down the road have been purchased by an owner with genuine deep pockets.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on July 31, 2018, 09:05:28 PM
Albion79, the season Peace took over, we were in the premier league with an average attendance of around 28 thousand - it was our first in the premier league. It was Thompson and Megson who took us from being 17 thousand attendance championship relegation strugglers to a place in the premier league.

Peace in his time here did put some strucutre in place yes, the academy and the training ground etc (albeit i'd expect that of any club owner in the last 20 years as the game has changed), and like Thompson, he did understand that the English game needed to change the way it did business and take some of the power away from the manager and place it into a technical directors hands (if I remember correctly, Thompson got the idea from his friend Rupert Lowe at Southampton, atleast that's how the local press and radio framed it).

Peace's problem was that he wasn't all that good at at knowing how to make us an established premier leagur club and he was poor at recruitment. He knew what the club needed, but he didn't know how to achieve it. He tried to skimp the club to survival which led to 3 relegations in our first 3 attempts at the league. His managerial appointments were dire (his first one was Bryan Robson, despute a disastourous spell at Bradford). Even his attempts at hiring a director of football generally failed (I forget the name of Dan Ashworth's predecessor, but he only lasted 6 months), Richard Garlick (good administrator but not suited to the role), McDonough, Burton and then finally useless Hammond. The only appointment he got right was Dan Ashworth, and that was through luck after Aidy Boothroyd brought him to the club as academy assistant.

It was of course Dan Ashworth who established us in this league. His ideas, his organisation, his running of the scouting department and hiring of managers. Without him, I doubt we would have been succesful.

Peace left us in a decline. He brought in Pulis who he knew would keep us in the league short term, buying him time to get his money via a sale of the club.

In doing so, he ripped apart the one thing he had got right in his time here - the need to have a structure for the long term with detailed scouting and a director of football, rather than short term managerial fixes like Pulis who once they go, leave a big vaccuum and a lack of continuity.

If I was Lai, i'd be looking to find his own Ashworth to save him and his investment - and i'd rush to do it before the parachute payments run out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on July 31, 2018, 09:08:05 PM
There were many occasions when Peace could have strengthened us, instead he used the clubs money to buy more shares for himself.
He quibbled over £5,000 transfers yet sold a club he once valued at at £12m for £180m.
Great bloke.
Gouchain Lai, i mean, what can you say?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 31, 2018, 09:10:22 PM
There were many occasions when Peace could have strengthened us, instead he used the clubs money to buy more shares for himself.
Including forcing small shareholders to sell whether they wanted to or not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on July 31, 2018, 10:13:39 PM
Your right there is a balance, yet your somehow criticising supposed lop sided girders in the east stand, never ever heard anybody mention that before?

I dont fawn over Peace, as i said he made loads of mistakes, not backing Robson for Hasselbaink and Ehigou sticks out and we went down and appointing Irvine been two of the most standout but was the club in a far better position when he left than when he took over - yes, thats it.

He ran a successful business and did well out of it, he is a businessman first and a fan second, i asked before what could / should he of done different.

Baggies made a good point that he should of got somebody with football experience at recruitment, with the exception of Ashworth we struggled, it wasnt a disaster as we did 8 years in the premier league with only one season ever really been in a relegation battle aside from last season, but could of been better.

I said i thought we need a football person on the board now, baggiejohn said the same, so what other things if you were Lai would you do right now?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 31, 2018, 10:31:43 PM
Let’s keep this simple,
Where were we when JP took over
Where were we when he sold us?

Surely the rest is academic!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 01, 2018, 05:17:53 AM
Albion79, the season Peace took over, we were in the premier league with an average attendance of around 28 thousand - it was our first in the premier league. It was Thompson and Megson who took us from being 17 thousand attendance championship relegation strugglers to a place in the premier league.

Peace in his time here did put some strucutre in place yes, the academy and the training ground etc (albeit i'd expect that of any club owner in the last 20 years as the game has changed), and like Thompson, he did understand that the English game needed to change the way it did business and take some of the power away from the manager and place it into a technical directors hands (if I remember correctly, Thompson got the idea from his friend Rupert Lowe at Southampton, atleast that's how the local press and radio framed it).

Peace's problem was that he wasn't all that good at at knowing how to make us an established premier leagur club and he was poor at recruitment. He knew what the club needed, but he didn't know how to achieve it. He tried to skimp the club to survival which led to 3 relegations in our first 3 attempts at the league. His managerial appointments were dire (his first one was Bryan Robson, despute a disastourous spell at Bradford). Even his attempts at hiring a director of football generally failed (I forget the name of Dan Ashworth's predecessor, but he only lasted 6 months), Richard Garlick (good administrator but not suited to the role), McDonough, Burton and then finally useless Hammond. The only appointment he got right was Dan Ashworth, and that was through luck after Aidy Boothroyd brought him to the club as academy assistant.

It was of course Dan Ashworth who established us in this league. His ideas, his organisation, his running of the scouting department and hiring of managers. Without him, I doubt we would have been succesful.

Peace left us in a decline. He brought in Pulis who he knew would keep us in the league short term, buying him time to get his money via a sale of the club.

In doing so, he ripped apart the one thing he had got right in his time here - the need to have a structure for the long term with detailed scouting and a director of football, rather than short term managerial fixes like Pulis who once they go, leave a big vaccuum and a lack of continuity.

If I was Lai, i'd be looking to find his own Ashworth to save him and his investment - and i'd rush to do it before the parachute payments run out.
Very good post. Key players in our recent history Thompson, Megson, Ashworth different class.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on August 01, 2018, 06:43:20 AM
Who is Lai?
He says nothing and only appears when we play Chelsea or Man U so that he gets a photo with one of the big boys.
At the very least he should have issued some policy updates if indeed he has any.
Everything this club does stinks of small time mentality.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on August 01, 2018, 07:41:12 AM
Let’s keep this simple,
Where were we when JP took over
Where were we when he sold us?

Surely the rest is academic!!

We was in the premier league when he took over, we had built a new stand and had started building up the training ground. When he left we was in the premier league, the ground hasn’t changed in 10 years and the training ground is now finished.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 01, 2018, 09:29:36 AM
Everything that Peace did was for the benefit of Jeremy Peace.  The progression of WBAFC was a side effect of making his asset more valuable and more saleable.  And he did it all at low/no investment and almost negligible risk.  Very clever man.

We talk about the rewards that the players receive being astronomical.  Well, over the course of his 14 years in charge Peace earned roughly £275,000 every week.  That's money that goes out of football, out of WBAFC and into JP's bank account.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on August 01, 2018, 09:33:51 AM
I've not been overly impressed by Mr. Lai, he rarely visits the club and does not communicate at all with the fans. Surely he could have released a statement at the end of last season sharing his thoughts and plans for the season ahead. And we have not heard a thing from our new chairman..........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on August 01, 2018, 09:36:24 AM
Everything that Peace did was for the benefit of Jeremy Peace.  The progression of WBAFC was a side effect of making his asset more valuable and more saleable.  And he did it all at low/no investment and almost negligible risk.  Very clever man.

We talk about the rewards that the players receive being astronomical.  Well, over the course of his 14 years in charge Peace earned roughly £275,000 every week.  That's money that goes out of football, out of WBAFC and into JP's bank account.

And why shouldn't it be, at the end of the day we were his business and the aim of a business is to make money, which looking over his tenure, he did well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 01, 2018, 09:38:46 AM
And why shouldn't it be, at the end of the day we were his business and the aim of a business is to make money, which looking over his tenure, he did well.

If that's how you see football then fair enough.  However, most people look at the league table for points rather than profit... and I thought that winning games and securing points (and occasionally entertaining fans) was the whole point of football.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 01, 2018, 09:40:42 AM
Nail and head for me Cynical

There is no doubt that JP improved the stock of the club, both in facilities and financially [started by Thompson], and whilst we have benefitted, ultimately he did it for himself. The proof of this is that he is now living in Jersey sat on more money than any of us will ever see in our life, and we have gone backwards.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 01, 2018, 09:42:21 AM
And why shouldn't it be, at the end of the day we were his business and the aim of a business is to make money, which looking over his tenure, he did well.

but for who though? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on August 01, 2018, 09:44:25 AM
If that's how you see football then fair enough.  However, most people look at the league table for points rather than profit... and I thought that winning games and securing points (and occasionally entertaining fans) was the whole point of football.

I agree with you mate I am just addressing the point of people saying he was only ever in it for himself, of course he was, he had millions in the club so his first objective will always be to make more money on top of the money he has. At the end of the day he is a businessman.

Its the same with Lai, for people to say he doesn't care less about the club blah blah blah is ridiculous, he probably has the majority of his money tied into WBA, we spent more than ever last summer, his biggest problem was trusting the 'football' people at the club and it all backfired.

Of course he has an interest in the club, even if that interest is to get us back up to the premier league and to look to recoup his money potentially.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on August 01, 2018, 09:47:15 AM
but for who though?

You could argue both the club and JP made money.

Since he took the club, we improved training facilities, improved the ground, improved pretty much every area of the club, academy etc. We paid higher wages, paid higher transfer fees, brought in internationals etc etc.

Last season was a disaster, but how many of us at the start of the season believed we were going to push on with the signings we had brought in? No one had us finishing 20th.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 01, 2018, 10:08:47 AM
If that's how you see football then fair enough.  However, most people look at the league table for points rather than profit... and I thought that winning games and securing points (and occasionally entertaining fans) was the whole point of football.

I believe he took over in 2002 was it?

If you were told then over the next 15 years we would have about 11 years in the premierleague resulting in a few top half finishes, FA cup semi final, first win at Villa Park for how long, beating the Wolves and embarrassing then numerous times, numerous wins at Anfield and Old Trafford as well as wins at Arsenal & Spurs would you say that was progress on the football field and times that were not seen for 20 years before his tenure started?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on August 01, 2018, 10:14:36 AM
For Peace to be successful, Albion had to be successful so its win win.

The same will apply for Lai, for him to make money, Albion have to do well, at the moment he will of lost on his investment so its in his interests as much as anyones for us to go up.

At the moment i dont see that Lai has done that much wrong except being naive and trusting so called experienced people. The key time will be in a couple of years if we havent gone back up and the parachute money has gone (which would be new territory the last 15 years) will Lai start asset stripping to get some money back or will he invest?

As for Peace, i dont know many owners of football clubs or business who when its doing well and profit from their business model who then walk away with nothing or very little, sir jack did it, steve gibson may do it, other than than any club not in debt will most likely make the owner a nice sum of money, they are wealthy business people first and foremost.

Peace was clever enough by making a lot of money from little or no investment, people didnt lose their jobs for him to gain, the club grew and got better, he made plenty of mistakes but when he left we wrre one of the top 10 clubs in the country, making money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on August 01, 2018, 10:30:26 AM
For Peace to be successful, Albion had to be successful so its win win.

The same will apply for Lai, for him to make money, Albion have to do well, at the moment he will of lost on his investment so its in his interests as much as anyones for us to go up.

At the moment i dont see that Lai has done that much wrong except being naive and trusting so called experienced people. The key time will be in a couple of years if we havent gone back up and the parachute money has gone (which would be new territory the last 15 years) will Lai start asset stripping to get some money back or will he invest?

As for Peace, i dont know many owners of football clubs or business who when its doing well and profit from their business model who then walk away with nothing or very little, sir jack did it, steve gibson may do it, other than than any club not in debt will most likely make the owner a nice sum of money, they are wealthy business people first and foremost.

Peace was clever enough by making a lot of money from little or no investment, people didnt lose their jobs for him to gain, the club grew and got better, he made plenty of mistakes but when he left we wrre one of the top 10 clubs in the country, making money.

I agree with you're post, i just think he could communicate a little more or at least get his new chairman to on his behalf.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on August 01, 2018, 10:34:30 AM
I agree with you're post, i just think he could communicate a little more or at least get his new chairman to on his behalf.

Just to play devils advocate, what would you like for them to communicate?

Big Dave speaks to the media regularly, Jenkins did a story regarding our finances etc. Just thinking through majority of owners I cant think of too many that get involved with the media very often (that's obviously excluding the Dr down the road).

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 01, 2018, 10:40:24 AM
If that's how you see football then fair enough. However, most people look at the league table for points rather than profit... and I thought that winning games and securing points (and occasionally entertaining fans) was the whole point of football.

very true but then most people with an interest in football are fans and not businessmen owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on August 01, 2018, 10:43:33 AM
Just to play devils advocate, what would you like for them to communicate?

Big Dave speaks to the media regularly, Jenkins did a story regarding our finances etc. Just thinking through majority of owners I cant think of too many that get involved with the media very often (that's obviously excluding the Dr down the road).



I just think personally he could have said a few words about last season's awful campaign, and look ahead to this season, what he wants to achieve etc.......our new chairman could equally do that on Lai's behalf but he hasn't said a dickie bird.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 01, 2018, 10:46:16 AM
I believe he took over in 2002 was it?

If you were told then over the next 15 years we would have about 11 years in the premierleague resulting in a few top half finishes, FA cup semi final, first win at Villa Park for how long, beating the Wolves and embarrassing then numerous times, numerous wins at Anfield and Old Trafford as well as wins at Arsenal & Spurs would you say that was progress on the football field and times that were not seen for 20 years before his tenure started?

2002-2016. 

Just think what could have been if we hadn't been quite so conservative.  Maybe we'd have avoided relegations?  Maybe being happy to be relegated as it provided JP with an opportunity to undervalue the club and run a share consolidation that improved his position, his overall control of the club and made the asset more saleable.  What a conflict of interests?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 01, 2018, 10:48:03 AM
Lai is an absentee owner.  What has he got to say at the moment that would be positive?  Maybe if we were in the PL it would be worthwhile as other people in China might notice?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 01, 2018, 11:27:08 AM
In a normal business,there is usually a chairman's statement,why is football different.
Also the chairman is the ultimate arbiter,not to hear anything from him is a poor show for the fans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 01, 2018, 11:39:22 AM
In a normal business,there is usually a chairman's statement,why is football different.
Also the chairman is the ultimate arbiter,not to hear anything from him is a poor show for the fans.


Strictly, the Chairman looks after the interests of the shareholders, the CEO looks after the interests of the customers.

That's what's happening
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on August 01, 2018, 02:50:52 PM
For Peace to be successful, Albion had to be successful so its win win.

The same will apply for Lai, for him to make money, Albion have to do well, at the moment he will of lost on his investment so its in his interests as much as anyones for us to go up.

At the moment i dont see that Lai has done that much wrong except being naive and trusting so called experienced people. The key time will be in a couple of years if we havent gone back up and the parachute money has gone (which would be new territory the last 15 years) will Lai start asset stripping to get some money back or will he invest?

As for Peace, i dont know many owners of football clubs or business who when its doing well and profit from their business model who then walk away with nothing or very little, sir jack did it, steve gibson may do it, other than than any club not in debt will most likely make the owner a nice sum of money, they are wealthy business people first and foremost.

Peace was clever enough by making a lot of money from little or no investment, people didnt lose their jobs for him to gain, the club grew and got better, he made plenty of mistakes but when he left we wrre one of the top 10 clubs in the country, making money.

No people didn’t lose their jobs but a lot of fans (who saved this club) had their shares stolen sorry I mean taken off them fir a fraction of what they was worth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 07, 2018, 09:15:24 PM
If your not interested  do the decent thing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on August 07, 2018, 09:48:26 PM
Since the purchase has he or his company put any investment into the playing side of things?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on August 07, 2018, 10:50:02 PM
Successful people show leadership, Lai has shown no leadership whatsoever. I have zero expectations regarding success for WBA while he is the owner. I detest the man. If I hear that he is going to attend a match this season, which I very much doubt, I think that I will have a banner made up with Chinese writing; the message will be very clear! (I should get away with it as the stewards won’t understand Chinese!)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 08, 2018, 12:10:05 AM
Badly need investment in player's as squad we have got is poor
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 08, 2018, 12:14:51 AM
Time to step in & back your man Mr Lai if you don't we could be looking at div 1
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on August 08, 2018, 01:18:41 PM
We barely have a board at the moment - it's just two Chinese guys (whose names escape me) who are learning on the job and Jenkins. Key positions should have been filled by now, especially technical director, but we gave a six-month contract to Terraneo instead. I honestly can't see us returning to the Premiership under this ownership, but I can't see Lai selling either because then he'll lose face.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 08, 2018, 01:37:49 PM
We barely have a board at the moment - it's just two Chinese guys (whose names escape me) who are learning on the job and Jenkins.
There are quite a few other British board members, but they never say anything in public and it hasn't been explained what they do. As for our Chairman, Li Piyue, I've no idea how much time he spends in the UK, but he's not said a peep to the fans since his appointment.

Given that we were relegated on his watch, Lai should have released a message for the fans going into the new season. His now lengthy period of silence is very poor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on August 08, 2018, 02:54:25 PM
I don't think investment is particularly an issue, it is more how the money is being used.

The Chinese owners know very little about football and haven't really pretended to. They deferred decision making to a nunber of people whobhad no proven track record, and in a sport that is continually evolving and adapting, they seem to employ the same old dinosaurs who have had their time (Terraneo being an example, just like Goodman and the other clown).

Unless Lai and Li Piyue quickly realise that they need to put somebody in charge who is more forward thinking and in tune with the modern game, we will likely end up slipping back into being a chamoionship striver like Norwich, Ipswich, Derby, Leeds, Forest and Wednesday. Very little seperates us from them, just s couple of years of parachute payments and we have wasted the biggest one this summer.

The clock is ticking.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on August 08, 2018, 08:13:27 PM
I know it’s a jealousy thing but to watch the dingles and Fulham have investors who really went for it in the prem is hard to watch. I know Lai has no where near the resources but some ambition would be nice. I was upset when Peace said a few years ago “we are a good championship club punching above our weight”. It seems to be the case though sadly...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on August 08, 2018, 08:25:38 PM
I know it’s a jealousy thing but to watch the dingles and Fulham have investors who really went for it in the prem is hard to watch. I know Lai has no where near the resources but some ambition would be nice. I was upset when Peace said a few years ago “we are a good championship club punching above our weight”. It seems to be the case though sadly...

When he took over it was reported that Lai was just the front man for a very rich Chinese consortium. Whoever they are they are not doing much to protect their initial investment
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 08, 2018, 08:28:08 PM
Let’s judge actions not words. Lai has added very little so far unfortunately
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 08, 2018, 08:46:47 PM
Venkies Mark 2 hasn't got a clue and brought Jenkins back to really tighten up finances. Looks like the coach has been hung out to dry on recruitment and fans are being taken for mugs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on August 08, 2018, 09:46:28 PM
When he took over it was reported that Lai was just the front man for a very rich Chinese consortium. Whoever they are they are not doing much to protect their initial investment

I'd be very surprised if he was a front for a rich consortium. Fosun are a rich consortium. Palm are just yet another Chinese growth business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 09, 2018, 12:32:17 PM
Lai you need to spend some money mate or your investment looks like its going down the swanny
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on August 09, 2018, 05:50:12 PM
Please sell up Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 09, 2018, 06:01:12 PM
We've somehow managed to find the only Chinese businessman with no money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 09, 2018, 06:10:43 PM
wheres trev the shed when you need him
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 09, 2018, 06:13:02 PM
His money is all stuck in China unfortunately.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Xpresso on August 09, 2018, 06:18:15 PM
Lai paid way over the odds for the club and the fans will be left to deal with the reality of it all. He will recoup as much of the outlay as he can from Premier League parachute payments over the next four years, while the first-team squad will be made up of free transfers, loan signings and youngsters coming up through the ranks. Any senior professionals might be sold if an decent offers are made, otherwise they will leave when their contracts run out. That's the reality of the next four years, mark my words.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 09, 2018, 06:32:05 PM
Can’t see him making enough profit to be able to recoup any money unless we are in the premierleague to be honest, it’s in his best interest to get us back there. Problem we have is that we can’t get any money out of China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 09, 2018, 06:35:42 PM
Can’t see him making enough profit to be able to recoup any money unless we are in the premierleague to be honest, it’s in his best interest to get us back there. Problem we have is that we can’t get any money out of China.
bloke can asset strip club sell training ground sell ground if he wants.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on August 09, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
His money is all stuck in China unfortunately.
There's ways around everything
His company could sponsor the bog roll  if they wanted to
He is obviously using Jenkins to recoup his outlay
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 09, 2018, 06:41:43 PM
Hey Paulo,how's he going to actually strip assets and pocket the money exactly, I would be very interested if you know how to do it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Xpresso on August 09, 2018, 06:42:25 PM
Parachute payments are worth £90 million in total over the next three years. The playing side will see none of that. We'll be lucky to be able to stay in the Championship let alone get promoted again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 09, 2018, 06:48:48 PM
Hey Paulo,how's he going to actually strip assets and pocket the money exactly, I would be very interested if you know how to do it.


Be pretty easy to do from a financial point of view.  Whatever assistance clubs owns are his.  If he decides to close the training ground and sell it to a developer then he can get that money out of the club easily.

Now, I don't think for a minute this will happen because there'd be uproar and the value of the rest of his asset would decrease rapidly.  It's certainly possible, look at what happened to Rangers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: we8seals on August 09, 2018, 06:53:06 PM
Hope he likes the championship- because that’s where we will be for a very long time. West Brom are the new Ipswich! - big Mick will probably be the manager by January
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 09, 2018, 06:54:15 PM
Hope he likes the championship- because that’s where we will be for a very long time. West Brom are the new Ipswich! - big Mick will probably be the manager by January


wrong big, the other one   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 09, 2018, 06:55:53 PM
Parachute payments are worth £90 million in total over the next three years. The playing side will see none of that. We'll be lucky to be able to stay in the Championship let alone get promoted again.

I’d say the wage budget is probably about £35m now (not 100% sure) what is the first amount of parachute payments we get this year? If we get £90 over 3 then it can’t be a huge amount more than what the wages is can it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 09, 2018, 06:58:51 PM
Parachute payments are in two large chunks and then a smaller one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 09, 2018, 07:05:25 PM
There you go then as I said I’m not sure my wage bill is correct by the way I’m just going on 50% drop to what it was last year, but the parachute payments may just cover the wages with a bit left over so not sure how much we actually have spare.

One thing I will say on the other hand is that China is a communist country and the president or whatever they have over there was always going to win the elections that weren’t that long ago so they would have known with the way communists countries run that they weren’t going to allow a load of money leave the country and that they would eventually put a stop to it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 09, 2018, 07:16:48 PM
There you go then as I said I’m not sure my wage bill is correct by the way I’m just going on 50% drop to what it was last year, but the parachute payments may just cover the wages with a bit left over so not sure how much we actually have spare.
Do we get payments from the EFL as well? If not, how do all of the other EFL clubs who don't have parachute payments manage to pay their players' wages? Or are you saying that our wage bill is much bigger than the clubs who weren't relegated last season?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: we8seals on August 09, 2018, 07:28:48 PM

wrong big, the other one


either or i suspect
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 09, 2018, 07:34:13 PM
Do we get payments from the EFL as well? If not, how do all of the other EFL clubs who don't have parachute payments manage to pay their players' wages? Or are you saying that our wage bill is much bigger than the clubs who weren't relegated last season?

19 out of 24 championship teams made a loss for the season 16/17 season and there were 8 receiving parachute payments. So I think a few rely on thier owners making up the loss. Something that we have established we can’t do, I mean this is as far as my business knowledge goes really but if it’s either live within our means or owner tops us up we only have one option. If there isn’t much left over after all our outgoings we are going to struggle to spend money.

I could be taking nonsense but that’s how I would see it, hopefully there is someone with a bit more knowledge about everything that could clear a few things up
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 09, 2018, 08:01:37 PM
Do we get payments from the EFL as well? If not, how do all of the other EFL clubs who don't have parachute payments manage to pay their players' wages? Or are you saying that our wage bill is much bigger than the clubs who weren't relegated last season?

Just looked it up

TV money is peanuts £100, 000 per home game & £10,000 per away game

EFL donate around £8 million in various funds

Our gate money would come to around £15 million

not sure about merchandise & sponsorships, but say another £2 million.

So for our wage bill to be self financing, it wouldn't have to be much more than £25-26 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 1954 on August 09, 2018, 08:17:58 PM
Is that correct 're tv money split 100:10 home:away club's? Needs 2 teams to make a game. I would've expected something much closer to 50:50. Seems grossly unfair on the away team!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Andio on August 09, 2018, 08:30:52 PM
Is that correct 're tv money split 100:10 home:away club's? Needs 2 teams to make a game. I would've expected something much closer to 50:50. Seems grossly unfair on the away team!

Yeah and the funny thing is we always seem to end up being the away team more often than not.

I would be interested to see if anybody could confirm that we are away on tv more than we are at home over the last few seasons?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: RogerBadoo on August 09, 2018, 08:34:26 PM
If the numbers above are correct - and I suspect they will be is it any wonder we haven’t gone mad in this transfer window like Stoke. I am ok with a sensible fiscal approach towards the club. We have seen a significant reduction in revenue and we still have Chadli on the wage bill. We do need to be careful. Imagine the state Stoke will be in if they fail to get promoted. We have a good squad and the opportunity to add in the Jan window. I have never experienced so much moaning so early in the season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 09, 2018, 08:41:54 PM
I thought JP said that he left us in safe hands
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on August 09, 2018, 09:06:54 PM
I thought JP said that he left us in safe hands

He did, with someone with short arms and long pockets. We’ve been conned into believing Lai was going to invest in the club and put us in a sound financial footing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 10, 2018, 11:50:54 AM
He did, with someone with short arms and long pockets. We’ve been conned into believing Lai was going to invest in the club and put us in a sound financial footing.

Lai always said he didn't plan to invest beyond the £175-200m he invested to buy the club.  I don't think he's mislead anyone who listened to what he had to say.  He wanted stablility, but bad decision making regarding CEO, Chairman, Manager, Player Investments has let him down.  However, JP may have mislead us into believing that he would only sell to someone who could take the club forward... but that's a different matter.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 10, 2018, 12:01:40 PM
Lai is an absentee owner.  I don't think he has any interest in us while we're in the championship.  That's why he's appointed his sidekick as Chairman... just as an overseer and to report back.  A championship brand can not help his Chinese businesses one bit.

I don't think he's asset stripping, I think he's relying on Jenkins to get us back to the PL without further investment.

With a @£25m income and a £40m parachute playment we should be able to manage that.  Player sales can boost the budget next summer if we're not promoted (think it's £30m next season, then £7 the season after - that's the case for Vile who are 2 years ahead of us).

What was the wage budget last season @£85m?  Takeout last seasons loans plus, Foster, Evans, McClean, Yakob and MacAuley and the 50% relegation wage drop and I think we're down to a third of this figure, plus the wages of the incoming players.  So we should easily be stable this year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: adamw1109 on August 10, 2018, 12:03:16 PM
He did, with someone with short arms and long pockets. We’ve been conned into believing Lai was going to invest in the club and put us in a sound financial footing.

No we haven't, the club was sold and people got excited and assumed money would be thrown around.

He clearly stated he would continue to run the club how it has been run.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan87uk on August 10, 2018, 12:06:30 PM
The silence is deafening - that is all that needs to be said.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggyman68 on August 10, 2018, 12:17:48 PM
No we haven't, the club was sold and people got excited and assumed money would be thrown around.

He clearly stated he would continue to run the club how it has been run.
Peace said he would only sell to someone who would take the club forward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on August 10, 2018, 12:18:02 PM
No we haven't, the club was sold and people got excited and assumed money would be thrown around.

He clearly stated he would continue to run the club how it has been run.

The problem is that he hasn't done that. He has allowed us to stagnate and has not rebuilt what Pulis destroyed. Unless he and the new chairmen get some better advisors in soon, you could easily see us slipping back into our old ways - the same ways that see clubs like Ipseich and Derby spending large spells in this division.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 10, 2018, 12:26:56 PM
Hey bouncing,with respect I don't think you are correct in your assessment.
Our owner cannot just sell any part of the club and pocket any profit.
He will only make money by his shares dividend or paying himself a massive salary or selling the club and making a profit from the sale.
He can't just take money when he likes and how he likes,there are rules in business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 10, 2018, 12:27:32 PM
Sorry meant boinging
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 10, 2018, 12:33:37 PM
Thinking about it a bit further,I suppose he could offer to buy the Hawthorns and rent it back to the club to get money and or training ground,but I stand corrected on that one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 23, 2018, 01:23:07 AM
Looks like the owner is happy for the club to be self sufficient and is unwilling or unable to finance any dealings with regards to loan market. Lai has to address the technical director position which should have been filled by a capable person by now. : :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Wigmore on August 23, 2018, 02:59:11 AM
Looks like the owner is happy for the club to be self sufficient and is unwilling or unable to finance any dealings with regards to loan market. Lai has to address the technical director position which should have been filled by a capable person by now. : :o
We have no idea of Lai's plans, and speculating about his happiness (or displeasure) in the total absence of facts is futile.
Using the DoF post as a stick with which to hit the owner imo is unfair. I would rather he allow Jenkins et al to deal with the issue, rather that a detached Chinese businessman. It was said, at the time of his appointment, that Mr Terraneo was a Chinese  inspired choice. Do you really want him to have another go?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on August 23, 2018, 07:15:22 AM
it was reported this week that the DOF position will be filled after the loan window closes. it will coincide when that foreign chap whose name I've forgot leaves after being stood down from his duties.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 23, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Looks like the owner is happy for the club to be self sufficient and is unwilling or unable to finance any dealings with regards to loan market. Lai has to address the technical director position which should have been filled by a capable person by now. : :o

Is this a bad thing??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 23, 2018, 04:40:21 PM
Is this a bad thing??
I m concerned that we have no right back, no pace through the middle of park and we are short of another striker. Thought we'd be able to complete a few more loan signings a few injuries and we'd be stretched.  New technical director should be in place by now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 23, 2018, 04:42:07 PM
it was reported this week that the DOF position will be filled after the loan window closes. it will coincide when that foreign chap whose name I've forgot leaves after being stood down from his duties.
if this is true the lunatics have really taken over the asylum.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 23, 2018, 04:56:46 PM
I m concerned that we have no right back, no pace through the middle of park and we are short of another striker. Thought we'd be able to complete a few more loan signings a few injuries and we'd be stretched.  New technical director should be in place by now.

I think we will get a right back in before next week as Moore wants one but I don't think you can have a pop at the board just because of your concerns. Maybe Moore thinks we are ok in those other positions you mentioned.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 23, 2018, 06:36:15 PM
I think we will get a right back in before next week as Moore wants one but I don't think you can have a pop at the board just because of your concerns. Maybe Moore thinks we are ok in those other positions you mentioned.
Moore was quoted that he still wanted two or three new face's after Gayle was brought  in, so I can have a pop especially as there is no DoF in place.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 24, 2018, 09:48:38 PM
No bloody DoF, no investment in first team owner is a joke watched the team live three times and there are issues all over the park. No right back, no pace in midfield but this bloke wants to do it on cheap
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on August 24, 2018, 11:20:44 PM
He’s probably chomping on popcorn, while watching China Has Talent.  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 28, 2018, 11:34:34 AM
It's officially hes a tight backside.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on August 28, 2018, 11:38:24 AM
It's officially hes a tight backside.




He’s probably very rich but sadly it’s on paper.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on August 28, 2018, 11:38:47 AM
I've never ever said this before and everyone can go through every one of my posts if they like but now I say it - naughty word him off.

Ever since he bought the club the club has gone one way, downwards and we've made excuse after excuse after excuse and blamed several people. At the end of the day he owns the club so he is ultimately responsible.

The Mears signing just takes the urine, no owner should be allowing this.

Please look for a buyer and naughty word off Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on August 28, 2018, 12:24:23 PM
Good business man though...made money despite being relegated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2018, 12:28:26 PM
Good business man though...made money despite being relegated.

How?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on August 28, 2018, 12:55:25 PM
How?

It was a little tongue in cheek but from what I can tell since the purchase he hasn’t invested anything. We made money in the transfer window on sales, got rid of some of our biggest earners and cut the wage bill and we receive parachute payments from the premier league.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on August 28, 2018, 01:39:16 PM
I don't really feel that the money is an issue. We are unlikely to get somebody who would be prepared to just put money into the club without expecting a return so whrn you take tgat into account, we have knocked back some big offers thisbsummer while spending in fees pretty much what we made in sales. We are probably operating at or around what we have made.

The real problem is how we use the money. £4 mil rising to £6 million on a championship only level defender in Bartley being one example.

If Lai knew how to move the club forward and develop us, and came in with some original ideas like Fosun have at the custard bowl or how the owners of clubs like Brentford, Huddersfield, Bournemouth and Brighton have then I wouldn't have much of an issue.

The problem is that he doesn't. He bought the club for unknown reasons and has allowed others to run it badly. The times he has interjected he has made decisions like bringing in Terraneo which from the outset looked bad to all but him.

He could learn from his mistakes and put the right people in place in the next few months but I won't believe it until I see the evidence.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on August 28, 2018, 01:58:07 PM
People dont stay rich for long if they throw their money around. I dont think for one minute Lai thought we would get relegated, but doing so has left him im an awkward situation. Was he really ever going to put millions of pounds into the club?? He's in it for the profit. It's not a toy like Chelsea is to Abramovich- He can afford to waft money around. Lai isn't rich enough to do the same. Wierd when you consider he's allegedly worth over £1b. Nowadays you need to be a multi billionnaire to play with a football club. Lai hopes to increase Albions exposure in the East, which in turn would increase revenue. This has taken a hit since we got relegated. We will have to stand on our own two feet for the foreseeable future i guess.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2018, 03:33:21 PM
It was a little tongue in cheek but from what I can tell since the purchase he hasn’t invested anything. We made money in the transfer window on sales, got rid of some of our biggest earners and cut the wage bill and we receive parachute payments from the premier league.

We’ve made a very small surplus on transfers in this window.

We’ve certainly cut the wage bill massively, but our income from Sky has dropped by around £80m (£120m less the parachute payment of £40m).  The income from the parachute payment goes towards this season’s wages. In other words it is already committed.

There’s unlikely to be any other monies unless we were to sell lots of players - which we haven’t.

Lai paid close to £200m for the club.  He clearly hasn’t clawed very much of that back, nor will he do so unless we get promoted and if he then sells the club.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 28, 2018, 03:52:32 PM
People dont stay rich for long if they throw their money around. I dont think for one minute Lai thought we would get relegated, but doing so has left him im an awkward situation. Was he really ever going to put millions of pounds into the club?? He's in it for the profit. It's not a toy like Chelsea is to Abramovich- He can afford to waft money around. Lai isn't rich enough to do the same. Wierd when you consider he's allegedly worth over £1b. Nowadays you need to be a multi billionnaire to play with a football club. Lai hopes to increase Albions exposure in the East, which in turn would increase revenue. This has taken a hit since we got relegated. We will have to stand on our own two feet for the foreseeable future i guess.
isn't he related to Chinese supreme leader or is it North Korea's  ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 28, 2018, 04:40:46 PM
Serious question for all those wanting Guochuan Lai to sell up and go, name me the owner you want and who would want to take us on?

And then tell us how this new owner, you've identified, will run a Championship Club with the issues we are currently faced with?

Remember, most wanted JP out as well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 28, 2018, 04:48:25 PM
Serious question for all those wanting Guochuan Lai to sell up and go, name me the owner you want and who would want to take us on?

And then tell us how this new owner, you've identified, will run a Championship Club with the issues we are currently faced with?

Remember, most wanted JP out as well.

There is this character with loads of money, he is a philanthropist and would be able to pile in as much dosh as required, wouldn't be acceptable to the fanbase though as he is a Pekin Duck and all things oriental are bad, 
Gentlemen I give you Scrooge McDuck

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 28, 2018, 04:49:36 PM
Serious question for all those wanting Guochuan Lai to sell up and go, name me the owner you want and who would want to take us on?

And then tell us how this new owner, you've identified, will run a Championship Club with the issues we are currently faced with?

Remember, most wanted JP out as well.
American investor was recently interested in taking club over from lai but he wouldn't sell so there are interested parties out there. All I'd want is reasonable investment in club for the long haul.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 28, 2018, 04:57:54 PM
American investor was recently interested in taking club over from lai but he wouldn't sell so there are interested parties out there. All I'd want is reasonable investment in club for the long haul.

Obviously, the American was a cheap skate and didn't make an offer Lai could refuse.

So you don't have a nomination then and you would accept "reasonable investment" (that begs lots of other questions to you) from anyone who said he'd put money into the club. Now, tell me how you would ensure he is as good as his word?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 28, 2018, 05:13:24 PM
Problem is Lai paid well over the odds for us, and no one will pay that much for us now. Make no mistake, Jeremiah stitched us up good and proper.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 28, 2018, 05:23:53 PM
Yes, JP had this naive Chinese businessman, who is a self made millionaire/billionaire, in his office and with the add of smoke and mirrors and nothing up his sleeve and not an accountant / financial advisor in sight and not a balance sheet to be seen sold a financially well run club, debt free and a going concern with access to a revenue stream worth millions of pounds to him, robbery, daylight robbery.

West Bromwich Albion was worth what someone was prepared to pay!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wimbledon baggie on August 28, 2018, 05:30:06 PM
Problem is Lai paid well over the odds for us, and no one will pay that much for us now. Make no mistake, Jeremiah stitched us up good and proper.

He certainly did! Our value has probably halved with relegation. Don't be surprised if he keeps £50m of the parachute payments to ease the pain. He needs to get us promoted within 2 seasons otherwise he will be facing serious losses.

Does anyone know what our flex down wage bill is now?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 28, 2018, 05:34:50 PM
He certainly did! Our value has probably halved with relegation. Don't be surprised if he keeps £50m of the parachute payments to ease the pain. He needs to get us promoted within 2 seasons otherwise he will be facing serious losses.

Does anyone know what our flex down wage bill is now?

1. And what was that value?

2. And how exactly will he be able to do that?

3. Agreed on the highlighted point about promotion



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 28, 2018, 05:41:37 PM
. He needs to get us promoted within 2 seasons otherwise he will be facing serious losses.


as long as club is being run with in its means then he can just sit on his investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wimbledon baggie on August 28, 2018, 05:55:37 PM
1. And what was that value?

2. And how exactly will he be able to do that?

3. Agreed on the highlighted point about promotion

1. Rumoured JP got close to £200m, now worth £100m max

2. Parachute payment belongs to Palm (or whatever vehicle owns the club), any income can be diverted to pay off directors loans/ company loans. We assumed he paid cash but there may be finance loans in the background that have an interest rate to repay each year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wimbledon baggie on August 28, 2018, 06:02:59 PM
as long as club is being run with in its means then he can just sit on his investment.

Provided he paid cash for the business. If we don't get promoted during the parachute period he will have to majorly cut his cloth to keep the club running on the level and not at a loss. losses can be absorbed by the bigger Palm company but if he is not a football man he might not fancy subsidising it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 28, 2018, 06:03:28 PM
1. Rumoured JP got close to £200m, now worth £100m max

2. Parachute payment belongs to Palm (or whatever vehicle owns the club), any income can be diverted to pay off directors loans/ company loans. We assumed he paid cash but there may be finance loans in the background that have an interest rate to repay each year.
closer to 50 million and falling with playing assets contracts running out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wimbledon baggie on August 28, 2018, 06:32:23 PM
closer to 50 million and falling with playing assets contracts running out.

Would not disagree with that. Its a massive loss he is looking at. Jenkins is being paid to plug that very big hole.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on August 28, 2018, 06:37:45 PM
Where was our free drink 😂
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 28, 2018, 06:47:25 PM
Where was our free drink 😂
need.one after today's announcement  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 28, 2018, 06:54:44 PM
1. Rumoured JP got close to £200m, now worth £100m max

2. Parachute payment belongs to Palm (or whatever vehicle owns the club), any income can be diverted to pay off directors loans/ company loans. We assumed he paid cash but there may be finance loans in the background that have an interest rate to repay each year.

1. Hear say, only JP and Lai know and how do you know how much the club is worth now?

2. So, that contradicts your previous statement below

“Don't be surprised if he keeps £50m of the parachute payments to ease the pain”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 28, 2018, 08:39:16 PM
JP could have beheaded a shareholder in front of the Brummie, and still some people would say well, he probably deserved it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 28, 2018, 08:52:40 PM
And some have idiosyncratic beliefs
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2018, 10:33:24 PM
1. Rumoured JP got close to £200m, now worth £100m max

2. Parachute payment belongs to Palm (or whatever vehicle owns the club), any income can be diverted to pay off directors loans/ company loans. We assumed he paid cash but there may be finance loans in the background that have an interest rate to repay each year.

No it doesn’t belong to Palm. Palm is the shareholder.  It belongs to the actual company that owns the club. It cannot be “diverted” except to repay debt owed BY THE CLUB, not to pay debt owed BY the shareholder.  Company law prevents that. Company law also requires that dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves (effectively accumulated profits).  There aren’t any. 

Many people seem to assume that shareholders can asset-strip, sell players and pocket the proceeds (including parachute payments).  They can ONLY do that if the club owes them money (ie Villa who owed a fortune to Lerner and Sunderland who owed a big sum to Ellis Short who had both loaned money to those clubs).  Lai has not loaned money to this club. He is not owed money by the club.  He might personally owe money to Peace but that’s his own debt, not the club’s debt.

I keep saying it - Lai’s best chance of getting back his c£200m investment is for us to get promoted and then to sell the club.

So why is he not investing any of his money?  Two possibilities. One is that and his consortium don’t have any money available to inject. The second is that he can’t because of STCC (Short Term Cost Constraint) rules - very simply our wage bill leaves no room to buy players. Yes we could afford transfer fees, but we obviously have to pay wages to any new signings.  Without high earners like Chadli, Dawson, Gibbs, Barry and Rodriguez leaving, we don’t have enough wage headroom despite the flexdown contacts and despite GK, Sturridge, Foster, Rondon, Evans and GMac all having left.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on August 28, 2018, 11:07:39 PM
Serious question for all those wanting Guochuan Lai to sell up and go, name me the owner you want and who would want to take us on?

And then tell us how this new owner, you've identified, will run a Championship Club with the issues we are currently faced with?

Remember, most wanted JP out as well.

Genuine question. Had you heard of Villa's new owners before they took over?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 28, 2018, 11:14:25 PM
No it doesn’t belong to Palm. Palm is the shareholder.  It belongs to the actual company that owns the club. It cannot be “diverted” except to repay debt owed BY THE CLUB, not to pay debt owed BY the shareholder.  Company law prevents that. Company law also requires that dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves (effectively accumulated profits).  There aren’t any. 

Many people seem to assume that shareholders can asset-strip, sell players and pocket the proceeds (including parachute payments).  They can ONLY do that if the club owes them money (ie Villa who owed a fortune to Lerner and Sunderland who owed a big sum to Ellis Short who had both loaned money to those clubs).  Lai has not loaned money to this club. He is not owed money by the club.  He might personally owe money to Peace but that’s his own debt, not the club’s debt.

I keep saying it - Lai’s best chance of getting back his c£200m investment is for us to get promoted and then to sell the club.

So why is he not investing any of his money?  Two possibilities. One is that and his consortium don’t have any money available to inject. The second is that he can’t because of STCC (Short Term Cost Constraint) rules - very simply our wage bill leaves no room to buy players. Yes we could afford transfer fees, but we obviously have to pay wages to any new signings.  Without high earners like Chadli, Dawson, Gibbs, Barry and Rodriguez leaving, we don’t have enough wage headroom despite the flexdown contacts and despite GK, Sturridge, Foster, Rondon, Evans and GMac all having left.
thought all playing staff had 50 percent flex down in contracts so the most players are on is 30 grand max and any new incomings will be on significantly less than that. Newcastle are believed to be paying Gayles wages.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wimbledon baggie on August 28, 2018, 11:52:31 PM
No it doesn’t belong to Palm. Palm is the shareholder.  It belongs to the actual company that owns the club. It cannot be “diverted” except to repay debt owed BY THE CLUB, not to pay debt owed BY the shareholder.  Company law prevents that. Company law also requires that dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves (effectively accumulated profits).  There aren’t any. 

Many people seem to assume that shareholders can asset-strip, sell players and pocket the proceeds (including parachute payments).  They can ONLY do that if the club owes them money (ie Villa who owed a fortune to Lerner and Sunderland who owed a big sum to Ellis Short who had both loaned money to those clubs).  Lai has not loaned money to this club. He is not owed money by the club.  He might personally owe money to Peace but that’s his own debt, not the club’s debt.

I keep saying it - Lai’s best chance of getting back his c£200m investment is for us to get promoted and then to sell the club.






So why is he not investing any of his money?  Two possibilities. One is that and his consortium don’t have any money available to inject. The second is that he can’t because of STCC (Short Term Cost Constraint) rules - very simply our wage bill leaves no room to buy players. Yes we could afford transfer fees, but we obviously have to pay wages to any new signings.  Without high earners like Chadli, Dawson, Gibbs, Barry and Rodriguez leaving, we don’t have enough wage headroom despite the flexdown contacts and despite GK, Sturridge, Foster, Rondon, Evans and GMac all having left.

I agree with your final statement.

Like you suggest, this is fiendishly complicated. If you set up a group of companies you can lend money freely within the group in a very tax efficient way. Loans to other member companies within the group can also be made ( I run a group of companies). It is impossible to say how he structured the deal and who actually owns what within his own group finances (this brings in the whole discussion of the worthiness/concerns of overseas investors buying football clubs). I'd venture to say that even if we could read the documents they would be so complicated that we would not fully understand them.

Bottom line is he needs to employ people on the board who understand football and know how to put together a successful squad. You only have to look 10 miles down the road to see what they are trying to build....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on August 28, 2018, 11:54:56 PM
We need to hear from him on a more regular basis & in that way the club & fans can move forwards united & together

Come on Mr. Lai show us your are the leader we hoped you would be when you brought the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 29, 2018, 07:44:51 AM
thought all playing staff had 50 percent flex down in contracts so the most players are on is 30 grand max and any new incomings will be on significantly less than that. Newcastle are believed to be paying Gayles wages.

Am not absolutely certain that every player had a flexdown contract, but even 50% of £60k/week is a very big wage for the Championship.

Newcastle only paying part of Gayle’s wages I understand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 29, 2018, 07:49:49 AM
I agree with your final statement.

Like you suggest, this is fiendishly complicated. If you set up a group of companies you can lend money freely within the group in a very tax efficient way. Loans to other member companies within the group can also be made ( I run a group of companies). It is impossible to say how he structured the deal and who actually owns what within his own group finances (this brings in the whole discussion of the worthiness/concerns of overseas investors buying football clubs). I'd venture to say that even if we could read the documents they would be so complicated that we would not fully understand them.

Bottom line is he needs to employ people on the board who understand football and know how to put together a successful squad. You only have to look 10 miles down the road to see what they are trying to build....

Even if you lend money between companies in a group, there was no significant debt when the club was bought by him, and any loans made by the club for him to take money out would still be an asset of the club and a liability of his. It really isn’t easy to strip money out of the club except by dividend or by repayment of debt. Dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves, and there was/is no significant debt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kev on August 29, 2018, 08:18:49 AM
Pity fosun international won't sell wolves and buy us instead 😊... Worring thing is  im not sure  if we would be a better investment to them.. Not looking good for us compared to wolves 🙁
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wimbledon baggie on August 29, 2018, 09:34:23 AM
Even if you lend money between companies in a group, there was no significant debt when the club was bought by him, and any loans made by the club for him to take money out would still be an asset of the club and a liability of his. It really isn’t easy to strip money out of the club except by dividend or by repayment of debt. Dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves, and there was/is no significant debt.

All what you say is correct. He can't use the club like a cash machine and just take the money out. But if I lend money to a group member to buy a property and do a development, whilst that money is still an asset of the company, it is tied up in that development until the building is sold. Lai could use parachute money to loan to another part of his business depriving the club of capital in the short/medium term. This is bad enough with a UK based business but is far more risky with an overseas venture.

We now have an international version of JP who in no way could be described as a fan with emotional attachment to us.

Lai needs to make clear statements of intent...but I'm not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 29, 2018, 09:38:07 AM
Genuine question. Had you heard of Villa's new owners before they took over?

No, but there again I have no interest in the Vile,

So, your question answered and back to my questions
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on August 29, 2018, 09:47:43 AM
Just a question but, IF Lai was to sell the club, would he have to sell the Palm Eco Town that's been developed?

I have a feeling he may look to recoup as much as he can before looking to sell (dependant on the answer to me above question).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 29, 2018, 11:20:12 AM
All what you say is correct. He can't use the club like a cash machine and just take the money out. But if I lend money to a group member to buy a property and do a development, whilst that money is still an asset of the company, it is tied up in that development until the building is sold. Lai could use parachute money to loan to another part of his business depriving the club of capital in the short/medium term. This is bad enough with a UK based business but is far more risky with an overseas venture.

We now have an international version of JP who in no way could be described as a fan with emotional attachment to us.

Lai needs to make clear statements of intent...but I'm not holding my breath.


Theoretically possible, but the directors of each individual company still owe a clear fiduciary duty to that company.  Stripping out cash to use it elsewhere in the group still needs to be justified by the directors of the company which owns the club.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 31, 2018, 07:22:47 AM
Nice one Jezza for selling to a dud un
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smosher34 on August 31, 2018, 10:13:18 AM
Can see us going the same way the blues did 🤔
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 31, 2018, 10:21:18 AM
We moaned about Peace, well some did.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on August 31, 2018, 10:28:32 AM
The silence is deafening.... no statements, no communication nada nothing zip zilch!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on August 31, 2018, 12:56:08 PM
Saw this theory on Twitter last night.

We've made a profit on transfers this summer, and have around £100 million in parachute payments coming in. Lai will trouser that money, possibly by moving it to the holding company, and then sell the club for around half what he paid for it.

We aren't going to make the Premier League again until we're under new ownership imo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 31, 2018, 01:12:56 PM
We moaned about Peace, well some did.

And they'll moan about the next one and the next one and the................................ad infinitum
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 31, 2018, 05:05:37 PM
Saw this theory on Twitter last night.

We've made a profit on transfers this summer, and have around £100 million in parachute payments coming in. Lai will trouser that money, possibly by moving it to the holding company, and then sell the club for around half what he paid for it.

We aren't going to make the Premier League again until we're under new ownership imo.

That “theory” is ignorant nonsense.

Yes, we’ve chopped £45m off the wage bill but our income has dropped by around £100m since last season in terms of Sky money, offset by the £40m parachute payment, so a net reduction of £60m.  The profit on transfers of £10m to £15m just about accounts for the difference between the net drop in income and the drop in the wage bill, which means that we are in very solid financial shape, whilst retaining a very decent squad, albeit one which has several glaring deficiencies. 

The parachute money is £40m, not £100m.  We received the 2017/18 Premier League money already.  That’s gone - spent.  The £40m from the first parachute payment plus our other revenues are needed to run the club this season - wages and all other overheads.  The overdraft that Jenkins inherited will have been covered by the “prize money” element of the Premier League payment for 2017/18, paid in the summer.

Even if the parachute money was there, Lai could not just take it by moving it to a holding company.  Company law only allows funds to be extracted by way of distributions of reserves and to repay debts. Lai wasn’t owed any debt by the club, and there aren’t any distributable reserves. We aren’t Villa and we aren’t Sunderland, where the club owed tens of millions in loans made by the owner which WOULD enable the owner to strip out parachute money to help repay that debt.   

The myth that Lai can strip out cash from selling players and from the parachute payments is exactly that.  He always said that the club would continue to operate within its means and that’s clearly the case.  By contrast, Villa and Stoke seem to be willing to gamble massively on going up. If Villa fail then they will be massively hammered under the FFP rules, even with their new owners.  Stoke probably need to get up this season as well to avoid big sanctions. If one or both of them fail, which is quite possible, then with big fines, points deductions and transfer embargoes they are putting their entire futures at risk.  Would we truly want that?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: barnestormer on August 31, 2018, 05:10:04 PM
So another window comes and goes leaving me with utter disappointment yet again, with only any decent players on loan who will scurry off and leave us desperately short at the seasons end,oh how I wish chairman lai would put us back up for sale or failing that  just bugga off,oh wait a minute
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 31, 2018, 05:19:08 PM
Just read this, I haven't checked it for accuracy, but if it is, that is concerning given the number of games we have in the league alone. I think we are a bit on the light side to say the least.

We have a 26 man squad

Broken down

5 Youngsters
4 Goalkeepers
17 Senior Professionals
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on August 31, 2018, 05:33:20 PM
Saw this theory on Twitter last night.

We've made a profit on transfers this summer, and have around £100 million in parachute payments coming in. Lai will trouser that money, possibly by moving it to the holding company, and then sell the club for around half what he paid for it.

We aren't going to make the Premier League again until we're under new ownership imo.

Where does the 100 million figure come from?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on August 31, 2018, 05:50:06 PM
We moaned about Peace, well some did.

And with justification. Never spent a penny of his own money on us, then sold us down the river to the highest bidder.
Had years in the Premier league without improving the squad or ground. Just kept us up to sell at a profit.
West Bromwich Albion is just a cash cow, it hasn't been run as a football club for yea years.
We might as well support Lloyd's.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 31, 2018, 05:56:59 PM
And with justification. Never spent a penny of his own money on us, then sold us down the river to the highest bidder.
Had years in the Premier league without improving the squad or ground. Just kept us up to sell at a profit.
West Bromwich Albion is just a cash cow, it hasn't been run as a football club for yea years.
We might as well support Lloyd's.

Tell me the last time it was, who the owner was and who the Chairman was?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 31, 2018, 06:55:06 PM
And with justification. Never spent a penny of his own money on us, then sold us down the river to the highest bidder.
Had years in the Premier league without improving the squad or ground. Just kept us up to sell at a profit.
West Bromwich Albion is just a cash cow, it hasn't been run as a football club for yea years.
We might as well support Lloyd's.

What's a cash cow?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on August 31, 2018, 08:17:50 PM
What's a cash cow?
In two words.. google it. It’s economics, so easier for you to read, than for someone to type. ☺️
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 31, 2018, 09:00:57 PM
Why should the owner spend anymore of his own money on players?
He bought the club and paid for it.
The business,run prudently should be able to pay for itself.
Shrewd buying/ selling and good coaching of players who want to play for Albion should be capable of a top six place.
After the shambles of the last two years let's steady the ship and hope that Dave can build a winning mentality throughout the club.
Forget the prima Donna players they don't work for us.
One thing that is very poor is the no speak from the owner,I don't approve of not being in touch with the fans,its our club not his.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on August 31, 2018, 09:55:37 PM
What's a cash cow?
Its a bit like a money tree except instead of shaking it to produce quick and easy cash you milk it like a cow for quick and easy cash

Here's a clue for you. both of these options are about as real as the purple unicorns on your lawn 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on August 31, 2018, 10:48:54 PM
What's a cash cow?
A cash cow is a business or product that has been successful but is now coming towards the end of its best period. Rather than invest businesses often just milk the product for what they can get by taking any profit and letting it decline. I guess you could liken West Brom to this as you could argue that mid to lower half of the Premiership was the best it was ever going to be and any more serious investment would be pointless. If they made the owner a profit from one season to the next then that's fine but that would be the main aim.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on September 01, 2018, 09:00:58 AM
We can only hope that we are sold to an investor with ambition, its a certain fact that this guy either doesn't have the no how, ambition or the funds to meet the fans expectations
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 01, 2018, 09:27:15 AM
A cash cow is a business or product that has been successful but is now coming towards the end of its best period. Rather than invest businesses often just milk the product for what they can get by taking any profit and letting it decline. I guess you could liken West Brom to this as you could argue that mid to lower half of the Premiership was the best it was ever going to be and any more serious investment would be pointless. If they made the owner a profit from one season to the next then that's fine but that would be the main aim.

Interesting!

So GL bought WBA just to make a meagre profit, when he could have got a much bigger return on his alleged £150 million by investing in Chinese infrastructure (for example).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 01, 2018, 09:48:03 AM
Hey blowee,a cash cow is a money making business that just keeps on giving.why would they let it decline,don't make sense mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on September 01, 2018, 09:49:02 AM
The chap can’t get money out of China it’s an absolute fact so I don’t understand why people are upset that none of his own money has been spent.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on September 01, 2018, 09:56:52 AM
Hey blowee,a cash cow is a money making business that just keeps on giving.why would they let it decline,don't make sense mate.
My understanding is that with a cash cow there is likely to be little growth in future profit. They have got as far as they can and the idea is that you milk them for what you can without trying to push them on. They will eventually decline so any profit is invested elsewhere rather than back into the original product/business. Admittedly they could make profit for a long time before going into decline but any growth will come from new products rather than them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 01, 2018, 10:01:02 AM
Interesting!

So GL bought WBA just to make a meagre profit, when he could have got a much bigger return on his alleged £150 million by investing in Chinese infrastructure (for example).

To be honest mate i have no idea why he bought us, especially for the price, he shows little interest in us or the game itself. JP was good at selling things way above their valuation as we saw with Kamara.
Lai probably wanted to be the only Chinese owner of a Premier league club without realising the cost to keep it there. I said all the time Peace was asking too much but was shouted down. Fosun bought the Dings for a mere £30m and now are building a state of the art 50k stadium. I am looking forward to our rivalry with Walsall next season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on September 01, 2018, 10:20:39 AM
To be honest mate i have no idea why he bought us, especially for the price, he shows little interest in us or the game itself. JP was good at selling things way above their valuation as we saw with Kamara.
Lai probably wanted to be the only Chinese owner of a Premier league club without realising the cost to keep it there. I said all the time Peace was asking too much but was shouted down. Fosun bought the Dings for a mere £30m and now are building a state of the art 50k stadium. I am looking forward to our rivalry with Walsall next season.

What planet do you live on, whatever you have you surely sell it for the highest someone will pay for it.

What do you think he’s going to say ‘oh you’re willing to pay £200m but don’t worry about that, them lot down the road we’re sold for £30m how about we multiply that by 2 as we are in the premiership and call it £60m’

Daftness to think that, would you sell your house for half the price someone was willing to buy it off you for?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 01, 2018, 10:55:44 AM
What planet do you live on, whatever you have you surely sell it for the highest someone will pay for it.

What do you think he’s going to say ‘oh you’re willing to pay £200m but don’t worry about that, them lot down the road we’re sold for £30m how about we multiply that by 2 as we are in the premiership and call it £60m’

Daftness to think that, would you sell your house for half the price someone was willing to buy it off you for?

If you are asking me if JP got a good price for us then yes, he hit the jackpot, i bet you are over the moon for him.
But i am more interested in Albion than Charlie Peace, and he promised only to sell us to an owner who could take us further.
Are you happy with the one he got for us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: webral on September 01, 2018, 11:03:53 AM
Jeremy Jackpot Peace sold us to an owner who could take us no further and can't be arsed to speak to us. Thank you Roland.

Less greed from the bald one it could have been Fosun. How many 10s of millions does a man need?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 01, 2018, 01:15:45 PM
As many as he can get according to some of our fans. I think he did well to set himself up for life after buying out our shareholder fans for a pittance. What a great business man he was.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 01, 2018, 03:04:47 PM
Hey blowee,a cash cow is a money making business that just keeps on giving.why would they let it decline,don't make sense mate.
Partly because it wasn’t treated as a proper cash cow. (It really is more complicated). An established Premier League club might have the guaranteed income, but, it needs to reinvest that income on extraordinary costs. We reinvested badly last season, hence we now have a problem. I’d go as far as to say that the parasites, players, agents etc, are treating the clubs as cash cows. I’d like to debate more, but economics was the last lecture on a Friday. My mind was on other things.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on September 22, 2018, 01:50:51 PM
The EFL rich list
Club - owner - estimated wealth
Aston Villa - Dr Tony Xia, Nassef Sawiris, Wesley Edens - £8,100,000,000
Barnsley - International Investment Consortium (Headed by Chien Lee) - £6,900,000,000
Stoke - Coates family - £3,100,000,000
West Brom - Guochuan Lai - £2,800,000,000

full list link
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/richest-football-league-clubs-based-13285535

thought you mite like to see this new list, Wolves owner didn't make it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 22, 2018, 02:21:28 PM
The EFL rich list
Club - owner - estimated wealth
Aston Villa - Dr Tony Xia, Nassef Sawiris, Wesley Edens - £8,100,000,000
Barnsley - International Investment Consortium (Headed by Chien Lee) - £6,900,000,000
Stoke - Coates family - £3,100,000,000
West Brom - Guochuan Lai - £2,800,000,000

full list link
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/richest-football-league-clubs-based-13285535

thought you mite like to see this new list, Wolves owner didn't make it

Wolves aren't an EFL club.

Pretty sure that Lai figure is disputed too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 22, 2018, 04:58:30 PM
Those that aren't happy, feel free to pop down the cash point and make a football club acquisition
Isn't it amazing how good people are at advising multi millionaires on business plans and what they should do with their money
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on September 22, 2018, 05:03:28 PM
Could give a s#@t, means nothing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on September 22, 2018, 05:07:06 PM
Could five a s#@t, means nothing

Come again?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 22, 2018, 05:08:48 PM
Think he means “I couldn’t give a s@“!,  it means nothing. It being the money list
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kie the baggie on September 22, 2018, 05:13:54 PM
Think he means “I couldn’t give a s@“!,  it means nothing. It being the money list
About right yeah!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on September 22, 2018, 05:19:35 PM
Think he means “I couldn’t give a s@“!,  it means nothing. It being the money list

Oh right, I see. Makes sense now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on September 22, 2018, 06:34:16 PM
Owner wealth means nothing, it's down to how they approach FFP and how well the club recruits players and staff. As long as Lai appoints a DoF that knows football exists outside of England and he makes all of the Chadli money available in January then I'm happy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 23, 2018, 11:59:24 AM
Can we cut the xenophobic comments please, this forum is better than that and any future xenophobic comments will be removed as soon as we see them and the poster will be gone for an initial 7 days
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elkiellis on September 30, 2018, 01:34:36 PM
It seems to me that we drew the short straw here,Villa and Wolves get the big spending owners,i think our guy for whatever strange reasons I keep hearing(he cant get his money out) not that old chestnut,has no intention of spending much, I mean we sold Chadli on deadline day for 10million,surely we knew that was going to happen,and then spent 4 and sixpence getting in Mears, this guy makes Peace look like Richard Prior in Brewsters Millions.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 30, 2018, 04:37:04 PM
It seems to me that we drew the short straw here,Villa and Wolves get the big spending owners,i think our guy for whatever strange reasons I keep hearing(he cant get his money out) not that old chestnut,has no intention of spending much, I mean we sold Chadli on deadline day for 10million,surely we knew that was going to happen,and then spent 4 and sixpence getting in Mears, this guy makes Peace look like Richard Prior in Brewsters Millions.

Brewster wasted 30m to get hundreds of millions. Where's the correlation with Gochin?

He clearly bought us based on past performance and profits and thought he get the same dividends as Rolly.

But, then came the unplanned drop.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elkiellis on September 30, 2018, 05:04:02 PM
Brewster wasted 30m to get hundreds of millions. Where's the correlation with Gochin?

He clearly bought us based on past performance and profits and thought he get the same dividends as Rolly.

But, then came the unplanned drop.
dont take it so literal,i was just making a joke comparing Gochins spending to Peaces spending
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 1954 on September 30, 2018, 08:07:58 PM
Brewster wasted 30m to get hundreds of millions. Where's the correlation with Gochin?

He clearly bought us based on past performance and profits and thought he get the same dividends as Rolly.

But, then came the unplanned drop.
If Rolly refers to greedy Peace you're wrong about the dividends, he didn't take any dividends because he would've had to share them with the minority shareholders. Instead he took a very large salary that he didn't have to share with anyone!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 30, 2018, 09:10:21 PM
But if we made a profit which after tax that would have included all salary's etc the remaining profit must have been ploughed back into the club for new players
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 30, 2018, 11:53:14 PM
If Rolly refers to greedy Peace you're wrong about the dividends, he didn't take any dividends because he would've had to share them with the minority shareholders. Instead he took a very large salary that he didn't have to share with anyone!

Look at the 2016 wba fc holdings accounts and you will see a £27m dividend was definitely paid.

The clue is in the word "dividend".

The way he gradually forced minority shareholders, who put their money into our club in it's darkest hour, with one share after another and the fact there are at least 3 companies he set under the wba fc name, makes me think he had different types of share which carried different types of voting and dividend rights.

Personally, I don't think he would have any problem morally or legally to take that last £27m after squiralling it away instead of spending on a new halfords Lane or on Lukaku.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on October 01, 2018, 05:20:33 AM
Even if he did take this 27 million dividend,there must have been money left in to pay corporation tax on or left in the company ,because the company wouldn't have been any interest to a potential buyer perhaps.
I would have thought that the club would have shown to be in profit in order to be of saleable interest to someone like Mr lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on October 01, 2018, 07:31:00 AM
non profitable clubs get sold not ones that just make money.=Villa have had huge losses in recent years but still had interested parties to buy them. there's probably other clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on October 01, 2018, 09:10:07 AM
Even if he did take this 27 million dividend,there must have been money left in to pay corporation tax on or left in the company ,because the company wouldn't have been any interest to a potential buyer perhaps.
I would have thought that the club would have shown to be in profit in order to be of saleable interest to someone like Mr lai.

You only pay corporation tax on profits.  And you can also only take dividends out of profits (once corporation tax is paid).  We must have made a healthy profit that season.

Football clubs are weird, a struggling club will tend to be sold more often - just because the current regime will want out and someone else will think they can pick it up cheaply. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 01, 2018, 10:27:40 AM
You only pay corporation tax on profits.  And you can also only take dividends out of profits (once corporation tax is paid).  We must have made a healthy profit that season.

Football clubs are weird, a struggling club will tend to be sold more often - just because the current regime will want out and someone else will think they can pick it up cheaply.

I think of football clubs as rich mans pubs, ie, despite pubs being a very poor way to make money and requiring a great deal of effort to support, there are plenty of ordinary Joes who think they can do what others cannot, pubs are often more a romantic venture than a pure business venture. Which seems to be the case with rich blokes and footy clubs, IMO.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 01, 2018, 12:49:07 PM
It seems to me that we drew the short straw here,Villa and Wolves get the big spending owners,i think our guy for whatever strange reasons I keep hearing(he cant get his money out) not that old chestnut,has no intention of spending much, I mean we sold Chadli on deadline day for 10million,surely we knew that was going to happen,and then spent 4 and sixpence getting in Mears, this guy makes Peace look like Richard Prior in Brewsters Millions.

Villa's owner isn't loaded, he was just being financially clever in order to make it look like he was. He wasn't as clever as he thought he was, securing loans etc against Premier League money which never came, and had it not been for further investment this past summer the whole house of cards would have come crashing down.

Wolves owners haven't spent that much either. We spent more last summer. Granted they have some eye-catching additions (Neves in particular), but for every Neves or Jota there is a Ryan Bennett or John Ruddy. It's a balanced approach, based around creating a competitive squad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elkiellis on October 01, 2018, 09:45:54 PM
Villa's owner isn't loaded, he was just being financially clever in order to make it look like he was. He wasn't as clever as he thought he was, securing loans etc against Premier League money which never came, and had it not been for further investment this past summer the whole house of cards would have come crashing down.

Wolves owners haven't spent that much either. We spent more last summer. Granted they have some eye-catching additions (Neves in particular), but for every Neves or Jota there is a Ryan Bennett or John Ruddy. It's a balanced approach, based around creating a competitive squad.
Wolves have spent millions more than we have recently,we are not even close
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elkiellis on October 01, 2018, 09:55:17 PM
Villa's owner isn't loaded, he was just being financially clever in order to make it look like he was. He wasn't as clever as he thought he was, securing loans etc against Premier League money which never came, and had it not been for further investment this past summer the whole house of cards would have come crashing down.

Wolves owners haven't spent that much either. We spent more last summer. Granted they have some eye-catching additions (Neves in particular), but for every Neves or Jota there is a Ryan Bennett or John Ruddy. It's a balanced approach, based around creating a competitive squad.
just checked on the online transfer market listings we spent around 12million , Wolves spent around 63million
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 02, 2018, 12:11:34 AM
I don't think the Dingle situation is going to be allowed to continue in the prem if they threaten the top 4.

I cannot believe that they have got away with it so far, with having a stake in mendes's agency and nobody thinking there is conflict of interest.

He is mourinho's agent and nuno's and therefore fuson have a stake in both managers.

If the two managers played a game that meant something like deciding a 4th place finish for say spurs and a certain result would help his clients there is no way the rest of the clubs are going to accept such a scenario and one person (company and their shareholders fosun) having such potential influence.

That example is just managers and when you think of players he has at different clubs the situation is worse.

If the situation did arise then they would just sell their interest in the agency I suppose.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on October 02, 2018, 01:18:48 AM
Just thought I would clarify the 2016 £27m "dividend"

There are 3 companies in the corporate structure as at 30th June 2016.

West Bromwich Albion Ltd which is the operating company and is 100% owned by

West Bromwich Albion Group Ltd which is the intermediate holding company the minority shareholders own 12.2% of this company with the balance being owned by

West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd which is the ultimate parent and 100% owned by Peace and it is this entity that was sold to Lai's company Yunyi Guokai.   

This company structure remains in place.

In 2016 WBA ltd paid a dividend to Group. However neither Group nor Holdings paid a dividend nor have they in 2017. Therefore the money has not been paid to Peace or any other party it is or was sitting in WBA Group and formed the bigger part of the cash balance largely squandered by Williams.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 02, 2018, 01:23:06 AM
Just thought I would clarify the 2016 £27m "dividend"

There are 3 companies in the corporate structure as at 30th June 2016.

West Bromwich Albion Ltd which is the operating company and is 100% owned by

West Bromwich Albion Group Ltd which is the intermediate holding company the minority shareholders own 12.2% of this company with the balance being owned by

West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd which is the ultimate parent and 100% owned by Peace and it is this entity that was sold to Lai's company Yunyi Guokai.   

This company structure remains in place.

In 2016 WBA ltd paid a dividend to Group. However neither Group nor Holdings paid a dividend nor have they in 2017. Therefore the money has not been paid to Peace or any other party it is or was sitting in WBA Group and formed the bigger part of the cash balance largely squandered by Williams.


Come on fella, don't let the ACTUAL facts get in the way of a good Peace/club bashing!!! Tut tut.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 02, 2018, 03:05:20 AM
Just thought I would clarify the 2016 £27m "dividend"

There are 3 companies in the corporate structure as at 30th June 2016.

West Bromwich Albion Ltd which is the operating company and is 100% owned by

West Bromwich Albion Group Ltd which is the intermediate holding company the minority shareholders own 12.2% of this company with the balance being owned by

West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd which is the ultimate parent and 100% owned by Peace and it is this entity that was sold to Lai's company Yunyi Guokai.   

This company structure remains in place.

In 2016 WBA ltd paid a dividend to Group. However neither Group nor Holdings paid a dividend nor have they in 2017. Therefore the money has not been paid to Peace or any other party it is or was sitting in WBA Group and formed the bigger part of the cash balance largely squandered by Williams.

If it is sitting in the group accounts, where is it because it should have had an entry in the filed accounts as cash in hand or other reserves.

Whether it was squandered or not, the entries would have been there in the accounts as opening figures and the post "squandering" figures.

So please provide the pages of the accounts which show this introduction of £27m into the group company.

I couldn't find it, so I would appreciate your assistance in locating the money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 02, 2018, 10:13:31 AM
Just thought I would clarify the 2016 £27m "dividend"

There are 3 companies in the corporate structure as at 30th June 2016.

West Bromwich Albion Ltd which is the operating company and is 100% owned by

West Bromwich Albion Group Ltd which is the intermediate holding company the minority shareholders own 12.2% of this company with the balance being owned by

West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd which is the ultimate parent and 100% owned by Peace and it is this entity that was sold to Lai's company Yunyi Guokai.   

This company structure remains in place.

In 2016 WBA ltd paid a dividend to Group. However neither Group nor Holdings paid a dividend nor have they in 2017. Therefore the money has not been paid to Peace or any other party it is or was sitting in WBA Group and formed the bigger part of the cash balance largely squandered by Williams.

Are the  owners of the 12.2% listed ??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 02, 2018, 12:42:11 PM
just checked on the online transfer market listings we spent around 12million , Wolves spent around 63million

I mean Summer 2017, where we spent £10 million plus on three players, etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ashdoy on October 29, 2018, 01:18:27 PM
After following the awful events over the weekend, and readin so much about Leicester's owner, makes me wish our owner had as much input as he did. To see so much generosity towards the club and community as a whole showcases just how a club should be run. Lai has been to a handful of games and has provided no real input at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on October 29, 2018, 01:23:42 PM
After following the awful events over the weekend, and readin so much about Leicester's owner, makes me wish our owner had as much input as he did. To see so much generosity towards the club and community as a whole showcases just how a club should be run. Lai has been to a handful of games and has provided no real input at all.

As much as I agree we this, I think Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha was the exception to the norm rather than the other way round.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on October 29, 2018, 01:27:42 PM
As much as I agree we this, I think Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha was the exception to the norm rather than the other way round.

Wasn't he also based in this country?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan87uk on October 30, 2018, 10:56:41 AM
After following the awful events over the weekend, and readin so much about Leicester's owner, makes me wish our owner had as much input as he did. To see so much generosity towards the club and community as a whole showcases just how a club should be run. Lai has been to a handful of games and has provided no real input at all.

Lai has been a largely absent owner, barely spoken a word to us since his arrival really... As you say, when you look at the Leicester owner in comparison it makes Lai look kinda crappy to be honest.

"But he bought us a beer that one time" big deal...

As a club we are struggling a little with community and cohesion at the moment; A couple of bad games and the cracks start coming back to the surface almost immediately; After 3-4 years of the tripe being served up on the pitch and the rubbish that was going on in the background the last couple of season as well we really needed something to galvanise behind besides our (very naive at times) manager and really, the owner should have been the one to step up to the mark, get his hands dirty and get more involved with the club, the fans, the community etc.

The only exception to this is with the Albion Foundation which does help in this regard - He doesn't get involved himself and frustratingly, the club barely mention the good work the foundation are doing, but Lai is at least putting the money into it for now... Let's see if that continue if we don't make it back up to the greed league next season.

Just a few words from him every once in a while would really help I think too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 30, 2018, 11:09:48 AM
Lai has been a largely absent owner, barely spoken a word to us since his arrival really... As you say, when you look at the Leicester owner in comparison it makes Lai look kinda crappy to be honest.

"But he bought us a beer that one time" big deal...

As a club we are struggling a little with community and cohesion at the moment; A couple of bad games and the cracks start coming back to the surface almost immediately; After 3-4 years of the tripe being served up on the pitch and the rubbish that was going on in the background the last couple of season as well we really needed something to galvanise behind besides our (very naive at times) manager and really, the owner should have been the one to step up to the mark, get his hands dirty and get more involved with the club, the fans, the community etc.

The only exception to this is with the Albion Foundation which does help in this regard - He doesn't get involved himself and frustratingly, the club barely mention the good work the foundation are doing, but Lai is at least putting the money into it for now... Let's see if that continue if we don't make it back up to the greed league next season.

Just a few words from him every once in a while would really help I think too.

Sorry mate but the O/S is full of stories about the foundation, so you can't say they don't mention it. Since the start of the season there have been something like 50+ stories about the Foundation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan87uk on October 31, 2018, 08:31:28 AM
Sorry mate but the O/S is full of stories about the foundation, so you can't say they don't mention it. Since the start of the season there have been something like 50+ stories about the Foundation.

Yes, They have increased the news from the foundation this season on the O/S so yes i'm pleased about that, It was hyperbole for sure that I was using, but they still do some unsung hard work at ground level at times.

That said, the main point of my post was about our absent owner maybe stepping out of the shadows once in a while... for the moment I don't see it happening and presume he'll only come on to the scene more often if/when we get back to the prem!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 31, 2018, 09:13:24 AM
Yes, They have increased the news from the foundation this season on the O/S so yes i'm pleased about that, It was hyperbole for sure that I was using, but they still do some unsung hard work at ground level at times.

That said, the main point of my post was about our absent owner maybe stepping out of the shadows once in a while... for the moment I don't see it happening and presume he'll only come on to the scene more often if/when we get back to the prem!

Sadly I think you are right about that, it would have been good if he'd have released a statement of intent before the season started, not just that we are aiming for promotion but how we are trying to achieve it. I'm glad he's not like the mad doctor over at B6 but there has to be an achievable middle ground, rather than the stony silence.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on October 31, 2018, 09:49:47 AM
He's clearly a silent owner who really is not interested in engaging with the fans directly. That's fair enough and his choice. I don't think we can criticise him as such other than his decision to appoint Williams/ Goodman or to let them spend so much money on dross although he would've trusted others to be the judge of this. He's not cut off funds as far as I can see and seems to have entrusted Jenkins to apply the old (Peace) strategy again.

I will say though that he's proven he's nowhere near the kind of owners Leeds or Wolves have for example who seem to have a genuine football interest and want to see their clubs grow.

Under Lai, the best we can hope for is to achieve something similar to what we achieved under Peace, promotion and stay there for a few years .................the worst.....let's not go there
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on October 31, 2018, 11:56:16 AM
Lai has been a largely absent owner, barely spoken a word to us since his arrival really... As you say, when you look at the Leicester owner in comparison it makes Lai look kinda crappy to be honest.

"But he bought us a beer that one time" big deal...

As a club we are struggling a little with community and cohesion at the moment; A couple of bad games and the cracks start coming back to the surface almost immediately; After 3-4 years of the tripe being served up on the pitch and the rubbish that was going on in the background the last couple of season as well we really needed something to galvanise behind besides our (very naive at times) manager and really, the owner should have been the one to step up to the mark, get his hands dirty and get more involved with the club, the fans, the community etc.

The only exception to this is with the Albion Foundation which does help in this regard - He doesn't get involved himself and frustratingly, the club barely mention the good work the foundation are doing, but Lai is at least putting the money into it for now... Let's see if that continue if we don't make it back up to the greed league next season.

Just a few words from him every once in a while would really help I think too.

I attended a supporters club do recently. Rob Lake, Director of the Albion Foundation, gave a talk re the Foundation and it's funding. The Albion give the Foundation a platform; kits, training kits and access to certain facilities etc. Much of their work is also carried out in schools and the community.

However, Albion do not directly fund the Foundation per se and to my knowledge they never have. By this I mean they don't receive a share of total revenue. Money for the Foundation from the Albion comes via a percentage of TV revenue alone.

Following relegation this money dropped significantly. Further funding comes from sponsored events and donations. The Foundation are currently exploring the signing over of properties via last will and testament, as are other foundations throughout the League.

The Albion Foundation is in effect a separate charitable entity to West Bromwich Albion FC.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on October 31, 2018, 01:36:05 PM
Sadly I think you are right about that, it would have been good if he'd have released a statement of intent before the season started, not just that we are aiming for promotion but how we are trying to achieve it. I'm glad he's not like the mad doctor over at B6 but there has to be an achievable middle ground, rather than the stony silence.
It's a stony silence all round at present. Nothing at all from Li Piyue since his appointment as Chairman and even Jenkins has gone quiet now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mickyfudge on October 31, 2018, 06:10:52 PM
Hope he is prepared to spend money on our squad if we get promoted ,I hate to think of the majority of our players being any where near the prem
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slate on October 31, 2018, 11:30:45 PM
Meanwhile Wolves have just spent £16 million on a new keeper to add to their already impressive squad. What the hell has happened to us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 31, 2018, 11:38:25 PM
Meanwhile Wolves have just spent £16 million on a new keeper to add to their already impressive squad. What the hell has happened to us?
Lai obviously thinks we are little fish in a big pool....No imagination or foresight. Totally an investor who just dabbles. Just accept !!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mickyfudge on November 01, 2018, 08:04:09 AM
I think it is vital that we start playing the kids ,it is obvious that we are not going to spend any money and most of our players are going to be way over the top if we do manage to get promoted
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on November 01, 2018, 12:57:50 PM
Interesting that give the parachute payments are running out at Norwich they have reverted to youth policy and guess where they are now !!  (its a snap shot accepted)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on November 01, 2018, 01:06:07 PM
Meanwhile Wolves have just spent £16 million on a new keeper to add to their already impressive squad. What the hell has happened to us?
Its a minor point but I believe they have just agreed a fee for their current keeper. Not a new signing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slate on November 01, 2018, 05:00:45 PM
Its a minor point but I believe they have just agreed a fee for their current keeper. Not a new signing

Yes, sorry. Fair point. The red mist had dropped when I wrote that!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on November 01, 2018, 05:32:32 PM
Yet to make an appearence at the Hawthorns this year and only made a handful of appearences while we were in the Premier league (against the top 4) shows he's lack of interest in us and our targets and shows his interest in the bright lights of the Premier league and its glamorous clubs. I remember the excitement when he took over. It couldn't of gone much worse under his leadership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on November 01, 2018, 06:10:38 PM
Maybe he'll become so disinterested that he'll sell us off cheaply to someone who cares - ooh look there's a flying pig!

I think that the original motivation for buying English clubs was that the Chinese Leadership wants to establish a league system that enables it to win the world cup.  Classic authoritarian regime trope of excusing clampdowns on freedom of speech etc for trophy victories and expansion abroad.


Then suddenly General Secretary (for life) Xi JinPing decides that too much foreign exchange was leaving the country and reined all that spending in.  You don't argue with Secretary Xi even if you're a multi-millionaire.  So we would seem to be in limbo.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mickyfudge on November 01, 2018, 06:13:51 PM
Trust us to get the billionaire who will not spend any money
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 01, 2018, 07:21:03 PM
Trust us to get the billionaire who will can not spend any money


Got that sorted for you...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on November 01, 2018, 08:34:09 PM
Trust us to get the billionaire who will not spend any money





To be honest I’m not sure what his wealth is. Im sure he’s a very rich man but it’s probably on paper, and he’s money is locked away in businesses etc. but again like many have said he never said he would go on a spending spree, in fact he clearly states in the one interview when he brought it would be pretty much business as usual
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 02, 2018, 09:45:31 AM
To be honest I’m not sure what his wealth is. Im sure he’s a very rich man but it’s probably on paper, and he’s money is locked away in businesses etc. but again like many have said he never said he would go on a spending spree, in fact he clearly states in the one interview when he brought it would be pretty much business as usual

It's as if some posters never bothered listening to what he said when he bought us and are judging because he hasn't done the things they've decided he should do, rather than judging him on what he said he would do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on November 30, 2018, 07:43:02 PM
Blimey, coming over for the Brentford game. As what do we owe the pleasure! Strange when we play villa a few days later
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on November 30, 2018, 08:01:33 PM
Blimey, coming over for the Brentford game. As what do we owe the pleasure! Strange when we play villa a few days later

Maybe he's here to also talk about any targets in the January window & money available.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on November 30, 2018, 08:17:21 PM
Who knows, he might give us a free drink again, doubt it though.

On another related subject, has any St holders had their £10/5 voucher as per usual?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on November 30, 2018, 08:44:43 PM
Who knows, he might give us a free drink again, doubt it though.

On another related subject, has any St holders had their £10/5 voucher as per usual?

Had mine last week
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on December 02, 2018, 09:07:08 AM
Who knows, he might give us a free drink again, doubt it though.

On another related subject, has any St holders had their £10/5 voucher as per usual?

Yeah got it about the 21st Nov.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 03, 2018, 06:47:49 PM
If we are still in the mix form January he needs to back us sensiblely if he wants his money back. If we don't get back out first shot i fear it may take some time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on December 03, 2018, 11:54:02 PM
Apparently on his hols if media are to be believed, could anyone recommend a few sightseeing opportunities for him and the family around West Midlands?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: shilton1 on December 04, 2018, 07:05:48 AM
Blackcountry museum is always worth a trip!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on December 04, 2018, 09:24:43 AM
Could have a pint in the Tilted Barrel.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 04, 2018, 12:26:48 PM
The "astute" businessman Lai could go to the German Market and buy it for £200m and think he is actually buying Germany because peace told him it was. But, he'd only commit to the purchase of it after doing his due diligence (reading the beano). Peace would then be a consultant/chancellor for a "year" to watch over his latest wunderbar investment, for a good salary of course.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on December 04, 2018, 11:35:41 PM
Apparently on his hols if media are to be believed, could anyone recommend a few sightseeing opportunities for him and the family around West Midlands?

His holiday must be to West Bromwich then given he was at the game last night and had meetings with Moore today
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: east-stand-nick on December 05, 2018, 12:49:13 AM
The "astute" businessman Lai could go to the German Market and buy it for £200m and think he is actually buying Germany because peace told him it was. But, he'd only commit to the purchase of it after doing his due diligence (reading the beano). Peace would then be a consultant/chancellor for a "year" to watch over his latest wunderbar investment, for a good salary of course.

Costs about that much for a beer there doesn't it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on December 05, 2018, 08:30:04 AM
Blimey, coming over for the Brentford game. As what do we owe the pleasure! Strange when we play villa a few days later

Ah well, he was expecting us to beat Brentford quite comfortably, then we would have seen the grinning picture of him with his thumb up in the back of a car, being whisked away for another couple of years. His message would have been, carry on as you are.
I think Villa will turn us over, had he been here for that the crowd would have demanded he spend in the January window. Heaven forbid.
I wonder if he get's those three ghosts that used to haunt Jezza?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on December 05, 2018, 10:54:16 AM
Just read in the Express and Star,that were still in an overdraft facility,how come?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on December 05, 2018, 10:59:12 AM
Just read in the Express and Star,that were still in an overdraft facility,how come?

I have an overdraft facility, don't use it, but its still there.  If it costs nought / very little why wouldn't you, could help mitigate any cashflow concerns
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 05, 2018, 02:58:24 PM
I have an overdraft facility, don't use it, but its still there.  If it costs nought / very little why wouldn't you, could help mitigate any cashflow concerns

I believe the E & S article said that we were still in overdraft, & would be for some time.
Mainly to pay wages & ongoing transfer debts.
Tend to think that the "small" overdraft described by Jenkins is significantly larger than he originally indicated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on December 05, 2018, 03:09:06 PM
The overdraft thing I would guess applies to the footballing side given the football side is just one section of the business in the actual Holdings company, it could be wiped out whenever we wanted to if we chose to do so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on December 06, 2018, 12:52:43 AM
Having the excuse ready for a quiet window meThinks , Moore probably been told to carry on with what he's got.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on December 06, 2018, 03:12:38 AM
I know he’s probably a busy chap, but you’d think he’d have picked the vile game to attend.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on December 06, 2018, 01:23:02 PM
Expectations by this stage are lowered.  I see no evidence of significant inward investment to the club, and any cash we spend is likely to be generated from sales.  We have a little bit to spend, and we might loose players in the window- Dawson might be at risk.  However, on balance I think we will come out about even.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on December 06, 2018, 06:15:35 PM
Without being cruel I don't think Lai has contributed much if anything as an owner overall to be honest. I don't see that we've changed much if at all from when Peace was in charge albeit that we lost Peace who was an experienced operator as we found out to our detriment with Willilams and Goodman's failures. Overall, I'd say we're worse off than under Peace for this reason............

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on December 07, 2018, 10:57:09 AM
Anyone know how his eco town's the club are associated with are doing?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on December 09, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
I’m disappointed, I was hoping to read that he had sold the Club!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on December 28, 2018, 08:54:29 AM
lets see some serious action this Jan please. if we dont get up this year it gets harder
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 29, 2018, 02:56:06 PM
From Matt Wilson Twitter account:

 Chief executive Mark Jenkins plays down notion of January splurge for #wba - and confirms owner Guochuan Lai is not pumping more money into club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on December 29, 2018, 03:00:09 PM
Seems pretty clear that Jenkins has been instructed to get as much money out the club this season as possible while not completely destroying the possibility of promotion.

The best thing for us would be for Lai to sell up if we get promoted, it seemed obvious at the time that he'd paid an artificially inflated price that wasn't likely to be benefit him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on December 29, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
My new years wish is for sir Jeremy to ride in over the summer...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 29, 2018, 04:15:46 PM
Lai always struck me as someone who bought the club to ride out the remainder of the existing TV rights contract and when the new tv rights kicked in this season the clubs value would jump and he would sell on at a profit.

Sadly for us he persevered with Pulis when it was easy to cut ties. We got relegated and now he's looking at a a large loss and we are worse off as a club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 29, 2018, 05:47:14 PM
My new years wish is for sir Jeremy to ride in over the summer...

Yes, we definitely need him.

He can build the new Halford which we apparently could never fill, but funnily enough we sell out in a lower division.

But, more likely is he would accumulate the money saved from such infrastructure investment and just take another £27m when he flogs to the next numpty who has not got a clue.

Jeremy Peace, west bromwich born and bred and lifelong Albion fan.

I'd hate to think what he would have taken from the club he was not "one of our own".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on December 29, 2018, 05:51:59 PM
It seems to me that Lai only wants to line his own pockets. Definitely nothing like what Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha bought  Leicester for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 29, 2018, 06:11:06 PM
It seems to me that Lai only wants to line his own pockets. Definitely nothing like what Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha bought  Leicester for.

If that is the case then he could be waiting a long time

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask..........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on December 30, 2018, 06:48:56 PM
My new years wish is for sir Jeremy to ride in over the summer...

Yeah, he can ride in with his mask and stripey jumper, and take a top-six salary off a team who he labels 'mid-table championship'... again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on January 02, 2019, 08:31:07 AM
Wouldn't be nice for Lai to give DM just a small budget to really push us on and get into the top 2.

After all, it would benefit him in the long run  ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on January 02, 2019, 08:48:18 AM
Wouldn't be nice for Lai to give DM just a small budget to really push us on and get into the top 2.

After all, it would benefit him in the long run  ::)

If only, my hope is that he may have a deal in place to sell the club if we win promotion, and so a modest injection of capital could see this materialize. Failure might mean we are stuck with him for far too long!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on January 02, 2019, 08:58:13 AM
If only, my hope is that he may have a deal in place to sell the club if we win promotion, and so a modest injection of capital could see this materialize. Failure might mean we are stuck with him for far too long!

From a business view, surely if he's main aim now is to get what he paid into it and leave, then he NEEDS the club to be in the premier league to get the highest amount of money back.

But on the flip side, Lai will be thinking what if he does put in 20/25 million this month and we don't go up, then that's more money he has lost.

He seems to trust Jenkins, so I think if he was to say we needed a bit of money to see the job through, then Lai might just give a little.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 02, 2019, 10:11:23 AM
He can’t put any money in as it is all in China
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiecarl on January 03, 2019, 06:01:32 PM
My new years wish is for sir Jeremy to ride in over the summer...
you must have been one of those  'brain washed ' by jeremy's  punching above our weight middle of the table championship  nonsense
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 03, 2019, 06:18:31 PM
you must have been one of those  'brain washed ' by jeremy's  punching above our weight middle of the table championship  nonsense

Or just maybe preferred to be mid table to 8th in the prem than losing away at a poor Blackburn championship team
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 1954 on January 03, 2019, 06:44:12 PM
He can’t put any money in as it is all in China

If this was even remotely correct how do Wolves' owners continue to plough multi millions into their quest for world domination (but don't tell Huddersfield & Palace!)?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiecarl on January 03, 2019, 06:48:39 PM
Or just maybe preferred to be mid table to 8th in the prem than losing away at a poor Blackburn championship team
Alas , jeremy did not truly believe any of his own  rhetoric , otherwise why would he value a  club he considered  to be a mid -table  championship  for 175 million ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 03, 2019, 06:52:02 PM
If this was even remotely correct how do Wolves' owners continue to plough multi millions into their quest for world domination (but don't tell Huddersfield & Palace!)?

Have a read of this
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-files-fosun-specialreport/special-report-how-a-soccer-agent-and-chinese-tycoon-planned-to-trade-in-players-idUKKCN1OX0Q1 (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-files-fosun-specialreport/special-report-how-a-soccer-agent-and-chinese-tycoon-planned-to-trade-in-players-idUKKCN1OX0Q1)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Oldbury24 on January 03, 2019, 07:00:25 PM
Have a read of this
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-files-fosun-specialreport/special-report-how-a-soccer-agent-and-chinese-tycoon-planned-to-trade-in-players-idUKKCN1OX0Q1 (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-files-fosun-specialreport/special-report-how-a-soccer-agent-and-chinese-tycoon-planned-to-trade-in-players-idUKKCN1OX0Q1)

Superb spot.  It's a PR masterpiece that they've kept in so under the radar.  Or maybe compared to being bank rolled by oil money it just seems no big deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 04, 2019, 07:56:20 AM
If this was even remotely correct how do Wolves' owners continue to plough multi millions into their quest for world domination (but don't tell Huddersfield & Palace!)?

FOSUN have money all over the world not just in China
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on January 11, 2019, 01:26:21 PM
The (inevitable) departure of Harvey Barnes is a pivotal moment for the future of our club. Now is the time for Lai and the board to show us some intent of their ambition...and go all out to buy Dack.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on January 11, 2019, 01:29:30 PM
The (inevitable) departure of Harvey Barnes is a pivotal moment for the future of our club. Now is the time for Lai and the board to show us some intent of their ambition...and go all out to buy Dack.

Lai has little money, and needs the club to be self sufficient. Jenkins has been bought in to balance the books, and we still need an overdraft. The bids for Dack and Tavernier were only to make it look like the club was serious and had ambition. We won't be signing anybody permanently this window unless they are on a free.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on January 11, 2019, 01:37:29 PM
Lai has little money, and needs the club to be self sufficient. Jenkins has been bought in to balance the books, and we still need an overdraft. The bids for Dack and Tavernier were only to make it look like the club was serious and had ambition. We won't be signing anybody permanently this window unless they are on a free.

Quite. Sad but true...that's why I said 'pivotal moment'. Despite the recent upturn in belief and anticipation levels from our fans we're now in danger of becoming just another mid-table championship club for a long time to come.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 11, 2019, 01:55:39 PM
Lai has little money, and needs the club to be self sufficient. Jenkins has been bought in to balance the books, and we still need an overdraft. The bids for Dack and Tavernier were only to make it look like the club was serious and had ambition. We won't be signing anybody permanently this window unless they are on a free.

I agree with most of that although I don’t think any Dack bid even happened so I don’t buy the low ball bid to appease fans conspiracy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on January 11, 2019, 02:08:18 PM
If Dack leaves Blackburn, it will be for a Premier League Club, similarly Jarrod Bowen. I really don’t believe we have a cat in hells chance of signing anyone more promising than Harper. Don’t forget Field, Edwards and Leko, time to see if they can step up. As for the esteemed Mr Lai, I made my feelings towards him very clear some time ago, my opinion has not changed and I see no evidence to suggest that he will take any action to make me, and most others, to change our minds.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 11, 2019, 02:14:34 PM
I agree with most of that although I don’t think any Dack bid even happened so I don’t buy the low ball bid to appease fans conspiracy.


Looks as though it did

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/7146871/west-brom-fail-15m-bid-leicester-city-bradley-dack-blackburn/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on January 11, 2019, 06:41:20 PM
Lai has little money, and needs the club to be self sufficient. Jenkins has been bought in to balance the books, and we still need an overdraft. The bids for Dack and Tavernier were only to make it look like the club was serious and had ambition. We won't be signing anybody permanently this window unless they are on a free.

I thought Lai headed up a consortium with serious money ?
Plus, how do you know he has no money? You don’t buy s major club without putting some initial investment in both on and off the pitch ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on January 11, 2019, 06:44:24 PM
If Dack leaves Blackburn, it will be for a Premier League Club, similarly Jarrod Bowen. I really don’t believe we have a cat in hells chance of signing anyone more promising than Harper. Don’t forget Field, Edwards and Leko, time to see if they can step up. As for the esteemed Mr Lai, I made my feelings towards him very clear some time ago, my opinion has not changed and I see no evidence to suggest that he will take any action to make me, and most others, to change our minds.

Field and Leko seem to have gone backwards and not the standard needed for a top Championship/ lower Prem team ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on January 11, 2019, 06:45:31 PM
I should think the man is very rich, but it’s probably on paper. Plus he cannot get money out of China, not that I understand it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on January 11, 2019, 06:59:50 PM
It’s sickening to lose Barnes however the true test his how we (Mr Lai) respond. For the obvious blow this inflicts on the quality of our current best 11, this is nothing compared to the pressure now on the ‘management’ of our club. We have lost a diamond, but is the club looking for another diamond or some ‘cut glass’ to fill the void. Mr Lai is about to be ‘found out’ and exposed on every level. From his ambition/commitment and passion for WBA and demonstrate if he wants this season to ultimately conclude with success.

We were already 2/3 quality additions short of promotion. Let’s see if Mr Lai was more interested in equity and assets...or if he has a genuine desire to take this clear opportunity to gain promotion by the scruff of the neck.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 11, 2019, 07:47:48 PM
If we don't go up this year I'd say he can wave good bye to the money he invested
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on January 12, 2019, 03:50:07 AM
If we don't go up this year I'd say he can wave good bye to the money he invested

Let’s pray we do go up and he sees it as an ideal chance to ‘get rid’ and he has already sounded out potential new buyers - we all live in hope!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 06:19:04 PM
Imo, he'll never get the reported £200m he paid back, Premier league or not.

He overpaid substantially any diligent purchaser would know that. So question is how big a loss will he accept.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 06:22:10 PM
I should think the man is very rich, but it’s probably on paper. Plus he cannot get money out of China, not that I understand it

I would not believe that cannot get money out of China bull

Doesn't stop other Chinese clubs trying to buy Arnoutvic from West Ham with a bid of £35m and £21m in wages.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 12, 2019, 07:25:59 PM
I would not believe that cannot get money out of China bull

Doesn't stop other Chinese clubs trying to buy Arnoutvic from West Ham with a bid of £35m and £21m in wages.


That would make Arnautovic a Chinese asset. Not remotely the same.


Lai is wealthy, there is no way with no previous experience he would spend ALL of his money on us.


Every report states he's worth £2.5 Billion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 12, 2019, 07:33:56 PM
I would not believe that cannot get money out of China bull

Doesn't stop other Chinese clubs trying to buy Arnoutvic from West Ham with a bid of £35m and £21m in wages.

How can you be so ill informed on World Affairs, this isn’t something made up for a conspiracy against the Albion it’s a major thing for Chinese investors that a every article for about 4 pages on Google can tell you with a little search.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 07:43:54 PM

That would make Arnautovic a Chinese asset. Not remotely the same.


Lai is wealthy, there is no way with no previous experience he would spend ALL of his money on us.


Every report states he's worth £2.5 Billion.

It's money leaving China to West Ham.

We're a Chinese asset.

It is bull that the Chinese cannot get their money out of China. They are encouraged to buy foreign businesses and take the anticipated profits back to China. That requires further investment in some cases so why would the Chinese government stop that investment after promoting it to get the aforementioned profits.

Anybody can say whatever lai is worth, we will never know the truth.

Chinese own wolves and Ac Milan amongst other clubs, their owners get their money out.

Truth is there was a lot of cheap (low interest) money in China that has dried up with their downturn and trade war with the USA.

We know nothing in relation to how leveraged lai's businesses are, but I would it would be quite high.

I don't think his Wba themed eco houses are doing too great since our relaxation and with their downturn.

£2.5bn and mears on a short term, says it all about lai really.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 12, 2019, 07:47:09 PM
It's money leaving China to West Ham.

We're a Chinese asset.

It is bull that the Chinese cannot get their money out of China. They are encouraged to buy foreign businesses and take the anticipated profits back to China. That requires further investment in some cases so why would the Chinese government stop that investment after promoting it to get the aforementioned profits.

Anybody can say whatever lai is worth, we will never know the truth.

Chinese own wolves and Ac Milan amongst other clubs, their owners get their money out.

Truth is there was a lot of cheap (low interest) money in China that has dried up with their downturn and trade war with the USA.

We know nothing in relation to how leveraged lai's businesses are, but I would it would be quite high.

I don't think his Wba themed eco houses are doing too great since our relaxation and with their downturn.

£2.5bn and mears on a short term, says it all about lai really.


What? The difference is Marko will go over to China and play football. If we played in the Chinese Super League Lai could spend what he wants... Lai injecting cash into Albion will provide China with sweet FA.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 08:03:55 PM

What? The difference is Marko will go over to China and play football. If we played in the Chinese Super League Lai could spend what he wants... Lai injecting cash into Albion will provide China with sweet FA.

His business (us) was supposed to produce the profits which were shown to him in previous years and for him to take those profits back to China.

The Chinese have nothing to gain seeing their entrepreneurs buying business abroad and then killing those business with under investment.

Truth is more likely he has borrowed at low rates and is now suffering and is cash poor, despite whatever is reported about his worth the guy actions speak louder than words.

The dingles managed to get their £13m out to buy costa then another £15m the year after for neves.

You can't get money out of China if you haven't got any.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robbo_wba on January 12, 2019, 08:05:18 PM
He makes a good point though, we are a Chinese owned company. You invest money into a Chinese owned company and it exceeds, then the Chinese company gets the profits. Is that really investing funds overseas when the money doesn’t actually, in real-ty leave home?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 12, 2019, 08:15:05 PM
His business (us) was supposed to produce the profits which were shown to him in previous years and for him to take those profits back to China.

The Chinese have nothing to gain seeing their entrepreneurs buying business abroad and then killing those business with under investment.

Truth is more likely he has borrowed at low rates and is now suffering and is cash poor, despite whatever is reported about his worth the guy actions speak louder than words.

The dingles managed to get their £13m out to buy costa then another £15m the year after for neves.

You can't get money out of China if you haven't got any.

Dingles a different case altogether. Fosun have huge cash reserves outside of China and weren’t reliant on getting it out to fund Wolves
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 12, 2019, 08:21:52 PM
It's money leaving China to West Ham.

We're a Chinese asset.

It is bull that the Chinese cannot get their money out of China. They are encouraged to buy foreign businesses and take the anticipated profits back to China. That requires further investment in some cases so why would the Chinese government stop that investment after promoting it to get the aforementioned profits.

Anybody can say whatever lai is worth, we will never know the truth.

Chinese own wolves and Ac Milan amongst other clubs, their owners get their money out.

Truth is there was a lot of cheap (low interest) money in China that has dried up with their downturn and trade war with the USA.

We know nothing in relation to how leveraged lai's businesses are, but I would it would be quite high.

I don't think his Wba themed eco houses are doing too great since our relaxation and with their downturn.

£2.5bn and mears on a short term, says it all about lai really.

It isn’t “bull” at all.  There was a period of a couple of years ago when Chinese exchange control restrictions were virtually non-existent and then the government reintroduced them.  Lai’s timing was very unfortunate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 08:23:47 PM
Dingles a different case altogether. Fosun have huge cash reserves outside of China and weren’t reliant on getting it out to fund Wolves

The question remains why would the Chinese government strangle the businesses of their entrepreneurs after encouraging them to invest abroad?

If Lai has the money and desire to invest nobody could stop him as the Chinese government aren't idiots who would see him just throw £200m away.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 12, 2019, 10:17:50 PM
I'd be really interested to see a paper on how anybody made a profit from an English Football club.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 12, 2019, 10:22:48 PM
I'd be really interested to see a paper on how anybody made a profit from an English Football club.


David Dein and our Jeremy want a word John  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 10:28:49 PM
I'd be really interested to see a paper on how anybody made a profit from an English Football club.

Check company house website for wba fc accounts, you'd be surprised.

Lai didn't buy just to use our brand for his eco homes he wants them profits jezza showed him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 12, 2019, 10:32:00 PM
Check company house website for wba fc accounts, you'd be surprised.

Lai didn't buy just to use our brand for his eco homes he wants them profits jezza showed him.


But they were what between £8 and 12 million a year? He was obviously hoping to be in situ for the next TV deal, but the fact remains he simply wouldn't sink all his capital into us as a going concern, then sit in China letting others run it (badly).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 10:36:16 PM

But they were what between £8 and 12 million a year? He was obviously hoping to be in situ for the next TV deal, but the fact remains he simply wouldn't sink all his capital into us as a going concern, then sit in China letting others run it (badly).

Who?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 12, 2019, 10:37:47 PM
Who?


Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 12, 2019, 10:46:57 PM
The only time wba made a decent profit was in 2017, & then spent the lot the next year in poor player recruitment.

Almost all other years Peace could have made more money by investing in the FTSE.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 10:50:52 PM

Lai.

We don't know what capital he has, I suspect he leveraged his purchase heavily and now is having difficulty servicing the debt.

He didn't need to look to the next deal he needed us to stay in the prem, spend as little as possible to stay there and hopefully take out £10-£15m out a year from the anticipated profits to pay his interest and loan repayments.

Some even have an opinion that he bought us as a rich man's toy.

He bought us like any business purchaser would by examining the books (previous accounts) and seeing consistent profits.

What he clearly didn't realise was the prospect of relegation, as he was sold the "TP has never been relegated" line.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 10:52:51 PM
The only time wba made a decent profit was in 2017, & then spent the lot the next year in poor player recruitment.

Almost all other years Peace could have made more money by investing in the FTSE.

"Decent" enoyhgh profits for a £27m dividend to be paid.

£27m that could have rebuilt the stadium at brought in players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on January 12, 2019, 10:55:53 PM
don't think it would make any difference if you could get money out of China. from the start of his ownership it was stated buissness as usual. besides it wasn't just Lais  money it was a consortium who bought us so wouldn't they need to want to spend aswel.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 10:59:55 PM
don't think it would make any difference if you could get money out of China. from the start of his ownership it was stated buissness as usual. besides it wasn't just Lais  money it was a consortium who bought us so wouldn't they need to want to spend aswel.

Never heard the consortium bit before.

It was supposed to be business as usual with the Jp recommended inept jw and mg.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 12, 2019, 11:00:43 PM
We don't know what capital he has, I suspect he leveraged his purchase heavily and now is having difficulty servicing the debt.

He didn't need to look to the next deal he needed us to stay in the prem, spend as little as possible to stay there and hopefully take out £10-£15m out a year from the anticipated profits to pay his interest and loan repayments.

Some even have an opinion that he bought us as a rich man's toy.

He bought us like any business purchaser would by examining the books (previous accounts) and seeing consistent profits.

What he clearly didn't realise was the prospect of relegation, as he was sold the "TP has never been relegated" line.


There were and are far more profitable ventures than a traditional unfashionable English football club in a deprived area (that services 3 similar sized clubs within 20 mile radius) that he could have purchased for the best part of £200 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on January 12, 2019, 11:24:45 PM
Never heard the consortium bit before.

It was supposed to be business as usual with the Jp recommended inept jw and mg.
Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited group is a new company, formed specifically to buy West Brom, comprised of funding from three places: an asset management company known as Yunyi Investment, a company called Palm Eco-Town Development that specialises in landscape design, and Mr Guochuan Lai, a businessman with connections to the previous two companies.

Lai's purchase of West Bromwich was led by Yuni Investment, an asset management company established in July 2014 that focuses on growth investment opportunities in sports, leisure and technology businesses. The holding company has three investment companies as its shareholders:[6]

Yunyiye (59% - controlled by Lai who provided the underlying equity to Yunyiye through a trust),
Yunjin (23% - Yunjin is funded by funds introduced by Yunyi Investment)
Yuntai (18% - The funds used by Yuntai to invest in the buyer were provided by Palm Eco-Town Development Company Limited).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 11:27:28 PM

There were and are far more profitable ventures than a traditional unfashionable English football club in a deprived area (that services 3 similar sized clubs within 20 mile radius) that he could have purchased for the best part of £200 million.

But, he's an idiot and didn't buy anything else unfortunately he bought us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 11:33:05 PM
Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited group is a new company, formed specifically to buy West Brom, comprised of funding from three places: an asset management company known as Yunyi Investment, a company called Palm Eco-Town Development that specialises in landscape design, and Mr Guochuan Lai, a businessman with connections to the previous two companies.

Lai's purchase of West Bromwich was led by Yuni Investment, an asset management company established in July 2014 that focuses on growth investment opportunities in sports, leisure and technology businesses. The holding company has three investment companies as its shareholders:[6]

Yunyiye (59% - controlled by Lai who provided the underlying equity to Yunyiye through a trust),
Yunjin (23% - Yunjin is funded by funds introduced by Yunyi Investment)
Yuntai (18% - The funds used by Yuntai to invest in the buyer were provided by Palm Eco-Town Development Company Limited).

I read that at the time of the purchase and read it as being Lai's essentially using different vehicles, like jp had 3 wba companies.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 12, 2019, 11:34:46 PM
But, he's an idiot and didn't buy anything else unfortunately he bought us.


Wish I was 1 Yuan behind the 'idiot'.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 11:39:21 PM
Who knows you might be.

But, your question was why did he buy us for £200m. It was a stupid amount for few assets and an ageing squad. Whoever advised him did a bad job imo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on January 12, 2019, 11:40:19 PM
I read that at the time of the purchase and read it as being Lai's essentially using different vehicles, like jp had 3 wba companies.
you could be right, big business and money isn't always transparent
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 11:47:27 PM
you could be right, big business and money isn't always transparent

He definitely owns palm. I don't know why he would set up the other 2. Probably tax and tax breaks purposes
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 13, 2019, 01:31:18 AM
Don't think he's cut out to be owner of football club, no interest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on January 13, 2019, 09:41:13 AM
Should hope they have him on line 1 Today , I firmly believe pushing the boat out on 2 or 3 players (especially a forward ) gets us over the finishing line .
I know a lot of our finance issue were down to people not at the club now but I'm pretty sick of free transfers well over 30 and begging bowls to other clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 13, 2019, 08:09:55 PM
The question remains why would the Chinese government strangle the businesses of their entrepreneurs after encouraging them to invest abroad?

If Lai has the money and desire to invest nobody could stop him as the Chinese government aren't idiots who would see him just throw £200m away.

Look, I’m telling you how it is, not trying to explain how the Chinese government thinks.

I work quite a lot with China and what I’ve said is how it is currently, even if it does seem to make little sense.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 13, 2019, 08:11:48 PM
"Decent" enoyhgh profits for a £27m dividend to be paid.

£27m that could have rebuilt the stadium at brought in players.

When exactly was this £27m dividend paid?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 13, 2019, 09:52:41 PM
Look, I’m telling you how it is, not trying to explain how the Chinese government thinks.

I work quite a lot with China and what I’ve said is how it is currently, even if it does seem to make little sense.

So if you work a lot in China explain how those who want to take £35m out of China to buy Arnoutvic can take their money out?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 13, 2019, 09:58:00 PM
When exactly was this £27m dividend paid?

A week or so ago you declared of "course he took the dividend".

Are you now saying that you didn't say that and didn't know what you were on about then?

It was when you were "estimating" losses on chadli and getting when Zaha signed for Palace wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 13, 2019, 10:06:20 PM
This is quite an interesting read

https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/status/1083445981910392833 (https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/status/1083445981910392833)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 13, 2019, 10:26:23 PM
This is quite an interesting read

https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/status/1083445981910392833 (https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/status/1083445981910392833)

So £70m is being taken out of China, but when it cones to Lai he cannot take his money out?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 13, 2019, 10:30:26 PM
So £70m is being taken out of China, but when it cones to Lai he cannot take his money out?


Clearly states they will have trouble getting the money out. Which did surprise me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on January 13, 2019, 10:49:33 PM
So £70m is being taken out of China, but when it cones to Lai he cannot take his money out?

China has a football tax to protect their interests in the national team. To sign a foreign player the Chinese club has to pay a sum of money equal to the transfer fee to the government. If they buy Arnautovic for £35m, they pay an additional £35m in tax. £70m isn't being taken out of China.

It has been reported numerous times during Lai's time as owner that it is extremely difficult for investors to take money out of China. It has also been reported numerous times that Fosun get around this because they are an international conglomerate and therefore have extensive assets outside of China. Lai is a Chinese businessman, who owns a Chinese business (possibly multiple Chinese businesses?), his only foreign asset is West Bromwich Albion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 13, 2019, 11:34:37 PM
China has a football tax to protect their interests in the national team. To sign a foreign player the Chinese club has to pay a sum of money equal to the transfer fee to the government. If they buy Arnautovic for £35m, they pay an additional £35m in tax. £70m isn't being taken out of China.

It has been reported numerous times during Lai's time as owner that it is extremely difficult for investors to take money out of China. It has also been reported numerous times that Fosun get around this because they are an international conglomerate and therefore have extensive assets outside of China. Lai is a Chinese businessman, who owns a Chinese business (possibly multiple Chinese businesses?), his only foreign asset is West Bromwich Albion.

The point is how can the Chinese wanting to buy him can take their £35m out of China but Lai cannot.

Imo it's because Lai, like the vile Dr have leveraged themselves to such an extent that they cannot service their debt, from the profits they thought were coming their way. In the case of the viler he found new investment and in the case of Lai, he's got MJ cutting costs.

Maybe new investors are being sought behind closed doors for us, but we don't really know much about Lai and what his actual wealth is.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 14, 2019, 04:41:44 AM
A week or so ago you declared of "course he took the dividend".

Are you now saying that you didn't say that and didn't know what you were on about then?

It was when you were "estimating" losses on chadli and getting when Zaha signed for Palace wrong.

No I didn’t.  I suggest you re-read my post of 31 December.

I actually said “of course Peace took dividends”.  I was not referring specifically to the £27m dividend that you were referring to.  I have yet to see evidence of a £27m dividend having been taken, which is why I was asking you the question.

I made an error re the Chadli loss. I freely admitted that at the time.   I maintain that Palace were spending money generated from player sales.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 24, 2019, 09:38:45 AM
This is how much West Bromwich Albion owner Guochuan Lai is worth


Source: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-much-west-bromwich-albion-15723890
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on January 24, 2019, 10:53:43 AM
I dont know but my guess with Lai would be something like this.

Lai and his group wanted to buy / invest into english football when there seemed to be a boom with other chinese owners, they werent going to buy into one of the top 6 from the premier league, its too expensive. The likes of West Ham and Newcastle are basket case clubs and as Newcastle are finding now, Ashley puts a high price on them and as the Blues can vouch for, with Gold and Sullivan in charge at West Ham, they would want a premium.

Lai's group are investors so they are looking for a good deal, and therefore at some point they want a return on their money, the Wolves are exactly the same, i doubt the Fosun Group used to have posters of Mike Stowell and Robbie Dennison on their walls, they brought into Wolves to make money, the difference is they have Mendes who has a pool of players who he puts in the shop window, the top ones will be sold for big bucks, and the cycle continues, its working well for them at the moment, the issue will be if the authorities clamp down on it.

As for Lai, as far as premier league clubs go we would be about good as you could get, aside from the top 6 and the basket case clubs, we were relatively cheap (in football terms), we were stable (i think 6 or 7 years in the premier league when he took over), debt free and just a well oiled machine (on the surface)

I think his first interview he said it would be business as usual, ie - follow the JP model, which would be tick over in the premier league, they can promote and tap into the far east market a bit (the big boys have most of the pie but with how big the market is, if you can just have a little nibble you will still make plenty).

Basically, keep the money coming in, the incomings get bigger but so do the overheads (bigger fees, wages, etc) but at the end of each season i would imagine the group would put a percentage aside somewhere in the accounting (even if they dont withdraw it) which is their return on the investment, the whole time your in the premier league the club becomes more valuable, have a nice little return each year then in x amount of years, sell it on, make a nice profit due to the club being more valuable, its what JP did but with Lai the stakes are higher as there is money to be made but more to be lost too.

Thats all well and good when it lasts but as i think Stan pointed out above, your only one season away from that collapsing (ie - relegation!) I dont imagine Lai had a great knowledge of the workings of a football club when he took over so he did the sensible thing, appointed a couple of safe proven 'football' people who did (Williams and Goodman) again, what he probably didnt allow for was that been a disaster, whether it was they were too old, they were outdated, no longer upto the job, who knows but they were terrible appointments.

I think overall Peace did a very good job at the Albion but the last couple of years he was obviously looking to sell and therefore protecting his sale of the club with the appointment of Pulis, a man who had no relegations on his CV and so you were pretty much guarenteed to be premier league (ie - high value) when he sold the club.

I think from the appointment of Pulis tracing back to the changing of Director of Football every 5 minutes after Ashworth went, to the appointments like Mel and Irvine, the sanctioning of signings of players who barely kicked a ball or who we lost a lot of money on (Big Vic, Sess, Ideye, etc) it was clear he was just looking for quick fixes, just doing enough to get the club through until he sold it. Until the last couple of years of his reign i always thought Peace had a sensible plan and vision and overall he did a good job in my book but the last couple of years maybe tarnished things as by giving Pulis full control we were left with short term fixes but longer term problems, ie - players with lower resale value and big wages.

As for Lai, what i think he has done well is press the reset button, we were sinking and so he got Jenkins in who knows how to deal with that situation, he has done it before, turned it round and got us back to the premier league (which is all the owners will want) he isnt scared to make unpopular decisions but he has a proven track record. I also think Jenkins was there with the days of Ashworth, bargain signings, etc so i imagine we will return to that, signs are there with the appointment of a young eager coach in Mooro (Mowbray), Dowling as DOF (Ashworth), signing Townsend, Barnes (Harvey not Giles!) etc.

If we go up i would think there will be a couple of bigger names (helps with the marketing too) but also a number of foreign players we probably havent too much about, the same will probably apply even if we stay down just on a smaller scale. I think gone are the days of a glamour signings like a Anelka, Chadli, Greg, Sturridge even if we do get back up, i think we will eventually see the Albion model of mid to late 2000's and its something i personally am pleased about (with ideal a few more of our own youngsters involved this time round)

I know people slate Lai, saying lack of ambition, etc but its worth remembering the Albion is worth a lot more to him being in the premier league than is in the championship, so its in his interests more than anyone to get there even if we dont always understand the methods, but its a lot easier for Lai to make money through the football side than it is to sell land, the ground, etc, etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on January 24, 2019, 11:33:29 AM
I dont know but my guess with Lai would be something like this.

Lai and his group wanted to buy / invest into english football when there seemed to be a boom with other chinese owners, they werent going to buy into one of the top 6 from the premier league, its too expensive. The likes of West Ham and Newcastle are basket case clubs and as Newcastle are finding now, Ashley puts a high price on them and as the Blues can vouch for, with Gold and Sullivan in charge at West Ham, they would want a premium.

Lai's group are investors so they are looking for a good deal, and therefore at some point they want a return on their money, the Wolves are exactly the same, i doubt the Fosun Group used to have posters of Mike Stowell and Robbie Dennison on their walls, they brought into Wolves to make money, the difference is they have Mendes who has a pool of players who he puts in the shop window, the top ones will be sold for big bucks, and the cycle continues, its working well for them at the moment, the issue will be if the authorities clamp down on it.

As for Lai, as far as premier league clubs go we would be about good as you could get, aside from the top 6 and the basket case clubs, we were relatively cheap (in football terms), we were stable (i think 6 or 7 years in the premier league when he took over), debt free and just a well oiled machine (on the surface)

I think his first interview he said it would be business as usual, ie - follow the JP model, which would be tick over in the premier league, they can promote and tap into the far east market a bit (the big boys have most of the pie but with how big the market is, if you can just have a little nibble you will still make plenty).

Basically, keep the money coming in, the incomings get bigger but so do the overheads (bigger fees, wages, etc) but at the end of each season i would imagine the group would put a percentage aside somewhere in the accounting (even if they dont withdraw it) which is their return on the investment, the whole time your in the premier league the club becomes more valuable, have a nice little return each year then in x amount of years, sell it on, make a nice profit due to the club being more valuable, its what JP did but with Lai the stakes are higher as there is money to be made but more to be lost too.

Thats all well and good when it lasts but as i think Stan pointed out above, your only one season away from that collapsing (ie - relegation!) I dont imagine Lai had a great knowledge of the workings of a football club when he took over so he did the sensible thing, appointed a couple of safe proven 'football' people who did (Williams and Goodman) again, what he probably didnt allow for was that been a disaster, whether it was they were too old, they were outdated, no longer upto the job, who knows but they were terrible appointments.

I think overall Peace did a very good job at the Albion but the last couple of years he was obviously looking to sell and therefore protecting his sale of the club with the appointment of Pulis, a man who had no relegations on his CV and so you were pretty much guarenteed to be premier league (ie - high value) when he sold the club.

I think from the appointment of Pulis tracing back to the changing of Director of Football every 5 minutes after Ashworth went, to the appointments like Mel and Irvine, the sanctioning of signings of players who barely kicked a ball or who we lost a lot of money on (Big Vic, Sess, Ideye, etc) it was clear he was just looking for quick fixes, just doing enough to get the club through until he sold it. Until the last couple of years of his reign i always thought Peace had a sensible plan and vision and overall he did a good job in my book but the last couple of years maybe tarnished things as by giving Pulis full control we were left with short term fixes but longer term problems, ie - players with lower resale value and big wages.

As for Lai, what i think he has done well is press the reset button, we were sinking and so he got Jenkins in who knows how to deal with that situation, he has done it before, turned it round and got us back to the premier league (which is all the owners will want) he isnt scared to make unpopular decisions but he has a proven track record. I also think Jenkins was there with the days of Ashworth, bargain signings, etc so i imagine we will return to that, signs are there with the appointment of a young eager coach in Mooro (Mowbray), Dowling as DOF (Ashworth), signing Townsend, Barnes (Harvey not Giles!) etc.

If we go up i would think there will be a couple of bigger names (helps with the marketing too) but also a number of foreign players we probably havent too much about, the same will probably apply even if we stay down just on a smaller scale. I think gone are the days of a glamour signings like a Anelka, Chadli, Greg, Sturridge even if we do get back up, i think we will eventually see the Albion model of mid to late 2000's and its something i personally am pleased about (with ideal a few more of our own youngsters involved this time round)

I know people slate Lai, saying lack of ambition, etc but its worth remembering the Albion is worth a lot more to him being in the premier league than is in the championship, so its in his interests more than anyone to get there even if we dont always understand the methods, but its a lot easier for Lai to make money through the football side than it is to sell land, the ground, etc, etc.

Great post mate and I agree with pretty much everything you have said.

I think he put a lot of trust into Pulis and it didn't work out, like you mentioned he has hit the reset button, turned to Jenkins and it looks as though we are slowly rebuilding back to how the club was run previously.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwick2 on January 24, 2019, 12:06:45 PM
I dont know but my guess with Lai would be something like this.

Lai and his group wanted to buy / invest into english football when there seemed to be a boom with other chinese owners, they werent going to buy into one of the top 6 from the premier league, its too expensive. The likes of West Ham and Newcastle are basket case clubs and as Newcastle are finding now, Ashley puts a high price on them and as the Blues can vouch for, with Gold and Sullivan in charge at West Ham, they would want a premium.

Lai's group are investors so they are looking for a good deal, and therefore at some point they want a return on their money, the Wolves are exactly the same, i doubt the Fosun Group used to have posters of Mike Stowell and Robbie Dennison on their walls, they brought into Wolves to make money, the difference is they have Mendes who has a pool of players who he puts in the shop window, the top ones will be sold for big bucks, and the cycle continues, its working well for them at the moment, the issue will be if the authorities clamp down on it.

As for Lai, as far as premier league clubs go we would be about good as you could get, aside from the top 6 and the basket case clubs, we were relatively cheap (in football terms), we were stable (i think 6 or 7 years in the premier league when he took over), debt free and just a well oiled machine (on the surface)

I think his first interview he said it would be business as usual, ie - follow the JP model, which would be tick over in the premier league, they can promote and tap into the far east market a bit (the big boys have most of the pie but with how big the market is, if you can just have a little nibble you will still make plenty).

Basically, keep the money coming in, the incomings get bigger but so do the overheads (bigger fees, wages, etc) but at the end of each season i would imagine the group would put a percentage aside somewhere in the accounting (even if they dont withdraw it) which is their return on the investment, the whole time your in the premier league the club becomes more valuable, have a nice little return each year then in x amount of years, sell it on, make a nice profit due to the club being more valuable, its what JP did but with Lai the stakes are higher as there is money to be made but more to be lost too.

Thats all well and good when it lasts but as i think Stan pointed out above, your only one season away from that collapsing (ie - relegation!) I dont imagine Lai had a great knowledge of the workings of a football club when he took over so he did the sensible thing, appointed a couple of safe proven 'football' people who did (Williams and Goodman) again, what he probably didnt allow for was that been a disaster, whether it was they were too old, they were outdated, no longer upto the job, who knows but they were terrible appointments.

I think overall Peace did a very good job at the Albion but the last couple of years he was obviously looking to sell and therefore protecting his sale of the club with the appointment of Pulis, a man who had no relegations on his CV and so you were pretty much guarenteed to be premier league (ie - high value) when he sold the club.

I think from the appointment of Pulis tracing back to the changing of Director of Football every 5 minutes after Ashworth went, to the appointments like Mel and Irvine, the sanctioning of signings of players who barely kicked a ball or who we lost a lot of money on (Big Vic, Sess, Ideye, etc) it was clear he was just looking for quick fixes, just doing enough to get the club through until he sold it. Until the last couple of years of his reign i always thought Peace had a sensible plan and vision and overall he did a good job in my book but the last couple of years maybe tarnished things as by giving Pulis full control we were left with short term fixes but longer term problems, ie - players with lower resale value and big wages.

As for Lai, what i think he has done well is press the reset button, we were sinking and so he got Jenkins in who knows how to deal with that situation, he has done it before, turned it round and got us back to the premier league (which is all the owners will want) he isnt scared to make unpopular decisions but he has a proven track record. I also think Jenkins was there with the days of Ashworth, bargain signings, etc so i imagine we will return to that, signs are there with the appointment of a young eager coach in Mooro (Mowbray), Dowling as DOF (Ashworth), signing Townsend, Barnes (Harvey not Giles!) etc.

If we go up i would think there will be a couple of bigger names (helps with the marketing too) but also a number of foreign players we probably havent too much about, the same will probably apply even if we stay down just on a smaller scale. I think gone are the days of a glamour signings like a Anelka, Chadli, Greg, Sturridge even if we do get back up, i think we will eventually see the Albion model of mid to late 2000's and its something i personally am pleased about (with ideal a few more of our own youngsters involved this time round)

I know people slate Lai, saying lack of ambition, etc but its worth remembering the Albion is worth a lot more to him being in the premier league than is in the championship, so its in his interests more than anyone to get there even if we dont always understand the methods, but its a lot easier for Lai to make money through the football side than it is to sell land, the ground, etc, etc.


Great post, I think you are on the money (no pun intended) with how Lai expected this to turn out and what he has tried to do about it. The reason we got relegated wasnt really down to Lai in my opinion. I think with each year you have Pulis as manager of the club it slowly turns the squad into an ageing crop of players that have no real finishing edge and the reason he doesn't get relegated is due to him eventually getting sacked after he stopped being able to generate wins through lack of goals. That becomes difficult to turn around when you have a bunch of strong characters that are used to playing that way of football. This is a footballing issue which I wouldn't expect a Chinese business man to understand and he brought people in to spot these issues before there is no return. Unfortunately, Williams and Goodman were a disaster and really screwed his investment.

We are at a point of stick or twist I feel as Lai has 2 options. 1, invest in players that will give us the difference we need to make top 2, which may or may not pay off and cause a bigger loss if we don't go up. Or 2, continue with the current plan of only getting players in if we can do it as cheaply as possible and believe that the current crop is good enough to go up anyway. My worry is he will go with the latter which I think is just as much of a gamble because if we don't go up this year then we will lose our better players due to not being able to service their contracts without SkyPrem money and the value of the club will reduce further.

I hope I am wrong but if I'm not then DM needs to pull this out of the bag for the second half of the season
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on January 24, 2019, 01:28:45 PM
My thought has always been that he isn't going to make money out of the club, but out of the name and what we do.

Palm will build these 'West Bromwich Albion Soccer Towns', and will use our brand to promote them. Remember, we still carry a little bit more weight than most English sides, having been the first to tour the country.

The soccer towns will play host to the next generation of Chinese players, who will be trained and developed in the same way we have developed Field, Harper, and co. Our training techniques will be exported to be used on them.

This will curry favour with the Chinese government for improving the standard of Chinese players, and when the big European sides come calling for them, guess who owns their contract / playing registrations / provide the agency services? Lai and his fellow investors.

Mark my words, he invested in us for favour in his homeland, and thought we could just keep spinning our wheels without them coming off the way they did.

He's playing the long game, but part of that relies on premier league football, and that's why I think there is a lot of pressure on Big Dave to get us back up this season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 29, 2019, 11:59:43 PM
Any chance this owner could dip into his piggy bank so we could get a few signings over the line.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pureade1 on January 31, 2019, 01:19:57 PM
If and right now it is still an if with a few hours to go until the end of the window we don't bring in a single PERMANENT signing two questions have to be asked of this owner -

1. Why did we take that overdraft out as it hasnt been for strengthening the side?

2. Where has the money from the Chadli sale gone?

Oh hang fire breaking news....wes hoolahan is being kept on!

I hope and pray im totally wrong but i genuinly feel we will struggle next year with the number of players we will lose at end of the season if we dont go up as it appears Mr Lai has little interest in us outside of getting his money back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on January 31, 2019, 01:53:37 PM
If and right now it is still an if with a few hours to go until the end of the window we don't bring in a single PERMANENT signing two questions have to be asked of this owner -

1. Why did we take that overdraft out as it hasnt been for strengthening the side?

2. Where has the money from the Chadli sale gone?

Oh hang fire breaking news....wes hoolahan is being kept on!

I hope and pray im totally wrong but i genuinly feel we will struggle next year with the number of players we will lose at end of the season if we dont go up as it appears Mr Lai has little interest in us outside of getting his money back.

Like a lot of player sales, just because he has been sold for a reported £10m doesn't mean we receive that money straight away.
Sales are structured on performances, finishing position of the buying team, cup qualification and all sorts of other things.
I'd be surprised if we have seen half of the Chadli money yet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pureade1 on January 31, 2019, 02:25:38 PM
I agree that they are often structured but at the same time our incoming tranfers can be structured against the money that is due in so why are we not doing this if the deal is structured(obviously not including league position etc but refering more to the guaranteed installments that we would have agreed).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on January 31, 2019, 03:34:22 PM
I agree that they are often structured but at the same time our incoming tranfers can be structured against the money that is due in so why are we not doing this if the deal is structured(obviously not including league position etc but refering more to the guaranteed installments that we would have agreed).

I did hear (from a reasonably reliable source) a week or so ago that we didn't receive all of the Berahino
transfer fee as there are parts that were structured and the conditions have not yet been fulfilled.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on March 07, 2019, 11:37:06 AM
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/03/07/chief-executive-mark-jenkins-flying-to-china-to-discuss-plans-with-owner-guochuan-lai/

Jenkins is jetting out to the Far East with finance director Lee Cooper and chief commercial officer Simon King.

They will provide a progress report to Lai and his associates from Palm, the eco-town development company Albion’s owner is affiliated to.

But the main reason behind the visit is to discuss the financial and commercial realities of next season.


Lai is keen to find out the differences between winning promotion to the Premier League and a second season in the Championship.

Albion are currently in fourth place, seven points off the top two and automatic promotion, although they remain in the play-off spots.

Should the Baggies fail to bounce back at the first opportunity, their parachute payments will dwindle from £41.5million this season to an estimated £34m.

If they win promotion, they are set to receive more than £100m in prize money from the Premier League next season.

Jenkins regularly flies out to China to deliver progress reports to Albion’s majority shareholder.

However, Lai is not a regular visitor to The Hawthorns, and has attended just one game this season.

He is represented in England by executive director Ke Xu, who is based at Albion’s training ground.

Cooper joined the club in 2016 and was appointed finance director in August 2017. He oversees all areas of finance at the club.

King was appointed commercial officer in February 2017 after seven years in the same role at Hull City. He has also previously worked for Stockport County.

Oh dear is he really that clueless. ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 07, 2019, 12:00:10 PM
If we fail to get up then cloth will be cut accordingly, presumably club will get bids for a couple of players, Hegazi, Gibbs, Phillips and Rondon. Players out of contract will either leave or be on reduced wages, loan signings will go back to parent clubs and Moore and Jones will probably go again but will have to produce the goods next season or will be gone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwick2 on March 07, 2019, 12:30:35 PM
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/03/07/chief-executive-mark-jenkins-flying-to-china-to-discuss-plans-with-owner-guochuan-lai/

Jenkins is jetting out to the Far East with finance director Lee Cooper and chief commercial officer Simon King.

They will provide a progress report to Lai and his associates from Palm, the eco-town development company Albion’s owner is affiliated to.

But the main reason behind the visit is to discuss the financial and commercial realities of next season.


Lai is keen to find out the differences between winning promotion to the Premier League and a second season in the Championship.

Albion are currently in fourth place, seven points off the top two and automatic promotion, although they remain in the play-off spots.

Should the Baggies fail to bounce back at the first opportunity, their parachute payments will dwindle from £41.5million this season to an estimated £34m.

If they win promotion, they are set to receive more than £100m in prize money from the Premier League next season.

Jenkins regularly flies out to China to deliver progress reports to Albion’s majority shareholder.

However, Lai is not a regular visitor to The Hawthorns, and has attended just one game this season.

He is represented in England by executive director Ke Xu, who is based at Albion’s training ground.

Cooper joined the club in 2016 and was appointed finance director in August 2017. He oversees all areas of finance at the club.

King was appointed commercial officer in February 2017 after seven years in the same role at Hull City. He has also previously worked for Stockport County.

Oh dear is he really that clueless. ???

Surely it would have been better to discuss the impact of not being promoted before the January transfer window at least. Not a fat lot he can do about it now
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on March 07, 2019, 12:59:26 PM
He has a representative based at the training ground  so why can't Jenkins report to him and save on air fares ? Better still why doesn't the owner show his face over here now and again?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on March 07, 2019, 01:28:11 PM
If we fail to get up then cloth will be cut accordingly, presumably club will get bids for a couple of players, Hegazi, Gibbs, Phillips and Rondon. Players out of contract will either leave or be on reduced wages, loan signings will go back to parent clubs and Moore and Jones will probably go again but will have to produce the goods next season or will be gone.

Yeah, and if Moore and Jones are struggling with this squad, what chance have they got with a weaker squad?  Unless we have faith our scouting and transfers will bring in a hell of a lot of improvements?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on March 07, 2019, 01:46:08 PM
You would have thought that a savvy businessman would need that part of the business explaining to him would you.

Lai is keen to find out the differences between winning promotion to the Premier League and a second season in the Championship.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 07, 2019, 01:51:28 PM
You would have thought that a savvy businessman would need that part of the business explaining to him would you.

Lai is keen to find out the differences between winning promotion to the Premier League and a second season in the Championship.

Particularly worrying when you go on to read that
He is represented in England by executive director Ke Xu, who is based at Albion’s training ground.

What on earth is Mr Xu doing then?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on March 07, 2019, 02:00:15 PM
It’s the E&S. Don’t worry your pretty little heads about it. ☺️
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 07, 2019, 04:38:31 PM
Why is anyone taking this at face value? The only part of the story that is not speculative is the fact they're going to China. Nonsense piece imo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 07, 2019, 04:44:28 PM
Why is anyone taking this at face value? The only part of the story that is not speculative is the fact they're going to China. Nonsense piece imo.

there is no "it is understood that" or "sources at" or any other similar caveat,  it is written as a series of statements of fact.  Why do you say its speculative? Why is it nonsense?  Have you read it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on March 07, 2019, 06:37:26 PM
The fact that our club officials have to keep travelling all the way to China to see him speaks volumes for me. Why on earth did he pay all that money for us for?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on March 08, 2019, 10:37:38 AM
Lai is nothing more than a front for a few financial investors. Not sure why anyone ever thought he'd be interested in our club for any other reason? He'll eventually sell when he and his consortium have achieved what they want.

The only way we'll ever get owners who really care is if we ever adopted a German club model and the fans took majority ownership. This won't happen in the current climate though.........there's too much money involved

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on March 12, 2019, 10:38:25 AM
“Is Moore’s sacking a signal of a higher level exit plan?”

Any interest read and an interesting theory

Source: https://brummieroadender.com/baggies-comment/is-moores-sacking-a-signal-of-a-higher-level-exit-plan/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 12, 2019, 10:45:41 AM
“Is Moore’s sacking a signal of a higher level exit plan?”

Any interest read and an interesting theory

Source: https://brummieroadender.com/baggies-comment/is-moores-sacking-a-signal-of-a-higher-level-exit-plan/

I would go with that, completely a short term gamble on the hope of a new manager bounce. I would be amazed if we get a new face in with a long term plan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: phbaggies on March 12, 2019, 10:48:01 AM
Lai is nothing more than a front for a few financial investors. Not sure why anyone ever thought he'd be interested in our club for any other reason? He'll eventually sell when he and his consortium have achieved what they want.

The only way we'll ever get owners who really care is if we ever adopted a German club model and the fans took majority ownership. This won't happen in the current climate though.........there's too much money involved
Our Twitter contingency would be sacking the manager every week if he didn't do everything to their liking! They still have meltdowns over kit launches!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 12, 2019, 11:17:30 AM
“Is Moore’s sacking a signal of a higher level exit plan?”

Any interest read and an interesting theory

Source: https://brummieroadender.com/baggies-comment/is-moores-sacking-a-signal-of-a-higher-level-exit-plan/

Interesting, but he quotes Matt Wilson of the E & S.

Matt Wilson, in his podcast, said that it was Lai's decision to appoint Moore. The UK board wanted Dean Smith.

I have the feeling that Lai has a greater input in the key decisions than we think.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on March 12, 2019, 02:03:09 PM
Lai is nothing more than a front for a few financial investors. Not sure why anyone ever thought he'd be interested in our club for any other reason? He'll eventually sell when he and his consortium have achieved what they want.

The only way we'll ever get owners who really care is if we ever adopted a German club model and the fans took majority ownership. This won't happen in the current climate though.........there's too much money involved

I believe Swansea had this model which is also used in Spain where the likes of real Madrid vote for their president.

I think pompey also had it, but in both cases they sell out at the first sign of anyone flashing the cash.

There is no panacea when it comes to club ownership unfortunately.

Where there is vast sums of potentially (prem) you get the likes of the oystons and the Bolton owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 06, 2019, 07:27:37 PM
How did this bloke ever become a billionaire, if running this football club is anything to go by. Board are shambolic and haven't got a back bone between them and seem to be always looking for the cheap option when it comes to football side of the business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on April 16, 2019, 06:46:12 PM
Been reading a conversation on Twitter which originated from https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick about reasons why Chinese companies have purchased Midlands clubs and has linked to this -

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3006420/china-presses-interest-uks-high-speed-rail-project-high-level

Also just read that FOSUN have interests in rail
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 16, 2019, 07:01:52 PM
Interesting article, thanks Phil.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 16, 2019, 08:42:58 PM
Been reading a conversation on Twitter which originated from https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick about reasons why Chinese companies have purchased Midlands clubs and has linked to this -

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3006420/china-presses-interest-uks-high-speed-rail-project-high-level

Also just read that FOSUN have interests in rail

I've been following Simon Chadwick for some time, since GL showed an interest in us.
Helps to give some explanation on why Lai would have been interested in us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 16, 2019, 10:21:28 PM
Been reading a conversation on Twitter which originated from https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick about reasons why Chinese companies have purchased Midlands clubs and has linked to this -

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3006420/china-presses-interest-uks-high-speed-rail-project-high-level

Also just read that FOSUN have interests in rail

This is another interesting article about the Fosun/Mendes relationship

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-files-fosun-specialreport/special-report-how-a-soccer-agent-and-chinese-tycoon-planned-to-trade-in-players-idUKKCN1OX0Q1 (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-files-fosun-specialreport/special-report-how-a-soccer-agent-and-chinese-tycoon-planned-to-trade-in-players-idUKKCN1OX0Q1)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 16, 2019, 10:24:46 PM
Selected...

“Football is an entertainment business and should not be a financial business,”

Someone please tell Jenkins.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on April 16, 2019, 10:35:31 PM
Anyone seen Lai yet this year ?  Thought not!  >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on April 16, 2019, 10:42:25 PM
Anyone seen Lai yet this year ?  Thought not!  >:(






Don’t worry, if by some miracle we get to Wembley, I can see the camera on him
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on April 17, 2019, 12:50:00 AM
I've been following Simon Chadwick for some time, since GL showed an interest in us.
Helps to give some explanation on why Lai would have been interested in us.
I read an interesting article, not long ago, about Chinese interest in railroad building and contracts throughout all Western countries. Unsurprisingly, they all have a Westerly/Easterly direction. It’s been dubbed the New Silk Road. The Hawthorns station could be the end of the line. Or the starting point. :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BoingFlyer on April 17, 2019, 08:45:05 AM
I read an interesting article, not long ago, about Chinese interest in railroad building and contracts throughout all Western countries. Unsurprisingly, they all have a Westerly/Easterly direction. It’s been dubbed the New Silk Road. The Hawthorns station could be the end of the line. Or the starting point. :D

I spent some time off the beaten track a few years ago in Lao, the Chinese investment out there is on an unbelievable scale. They are a building a massive rail road (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vientiane%E2%80%93Boten_Railway) which will open up the South East Asia Peninsula even more to Chinese influence, as it links them and Lao to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunming%E2%80%93Singapore_railway.

Take a look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative to see where it all fits in. The new silk road currently stops in Hamburg!

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on May 07, 2019, 11:35:18 PM
So Mr Lai isn’t bothering to come over for our play-off games. Seriously, what is he doing at our club? He clearly hasn’t the slightest interest in the footballing side. He thought he was speculating in order to accumulate but he could lose a good chunk of his £180m investment IF - and it is a big IF - we don’t get promoted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bosh on May 07, 2019, 11:51:00 PM
He's probably lost a lot of that already because no one will pay what he paid - promotion or not. He bought a reasonably solvent self-sustaining club. Can't say that is the case any more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Black Country Pride on May 08, 2019, 12:11:35 AM
So Mr Lai isn’t bothering to come over for our play-off games. Seriously, what is he doing at our club? He clearly hasn’t the slightest interest in the footballing side. He thought he was speculating in order to accumulate but he could lose a good chunk of his £180m investment IF - and it is a big IF - we don’t get promoted.

Not that big an if  :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on May 08, 2019, 03:48:43 AM
Not that big an if  :(

I hope you are right, BUT - and it is a big BUT ..... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 08, 2019, 06:38:35 AM
Been reading in the press that our illustrious chairman can't be arsed to show up at the play off semis.
Just about sums up his interest in this club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on May 08, 2019, 07:19:07 AM
Been reading in the press that our illustrious chairman can't be arsed to show up at the play off semis.
Just about sums up his interest in this club.

Chairman is Li Piyue not GL. GL is simply an investor with dozens of businesses, why should the Albion take precedent over his other interests? GL appoints representatives to run his businesses with Mark Jenkins being the main decision maker here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 08, 2019, 08:29:56 AM
Chairman is Li Piyue not GL. GL is simply an investor with dozens of businesses, why should the Albion take precedent over his other interests? GL appoints representatives to run his businesses with Mark Jenkins being the main decision maker here.

GL owns around 85% of West Bromwich Albion.

I still believe he bought the club to promote his Chinese business interests globally, so that when we were relegated, that promotion fell away big time.
I can  see from that why he lost interest, but the play-offs are an opportunity for him to pick it up again, I'd be really disappointed & concerned if we make it to the final & he's not there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 08, 2019, 08:46:11 AM
West Brom owner Guochuan Lai missing play-off games

Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/05/07/west-brom-owner-guochuan-lai-missing-play-off-games/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bosh on May 08, 2019, 10:20:56 AM
I'm a shareholder and will not be able to get a ticket either.

Maybe he did not attend enough home games to qualify either.   :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 08, 2019, 11:40:27 AM
Adrian Goldberg voicing what many supports feel

“How the hell did English football allow itself to get into a situation where owners can't be arsed to attend the play-offs??? It's not your "business" fella, it's my club, my community and my passion.  Do one.”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 08, 2019, 11:55:49 AM
Adrian Goldberg voicing what many supports feel

“How the hell did English football allow itself to get into a situation where owners can't be arsed to attend the play-offs??? It's not your "business" fella, it's my club, my community and my passion.  Do one.”

He's right though
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on May 08, 2019, 12:03:38 PM
Adrian Goldberg voicing what many supports feel

“How the hell did English football allow itself to get into a situation where owners can't be arsed to attend the play-offs??? It's not your "business" fella, it's my club, my community and my passion.  Do one.”


Fair play to Adrian Goldberg. He is bang on right. I wish Lai would sell up he's been a joke ever since he bought the club.

Goldberg has hit the nail on the head Lai might be the "owner" but this isn't his club it's ours, the fans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on May 08, 2019, 12:43:16 PM
So Mr Lai isn’t bothering to come over for our play-off games. Seriously, what is he doing at our club? He clearly hasn’t the slightest interest in the footballing side. He thought he was speculating in order to accumulate but he could lose a good chunk of his £180m investment IF - and it is a big IF - we don’t get promoted.

I like your optimism Royhan. Good on yeah!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on May 08, 2019, 01:07:43 PM
Adrian Goldberg voicing what many supports feel

“How the hell did English football allow itself to get into a situation where owners can't be arsed to attend the play-offs??? It's not your "business" fella, it's my club, my community and my passion.  Do one.”

It happened because of one very greedy, selfish bald man called Jeremy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on May 08, 2019, 01:12:34 PM
Hopefully, either way (promotion or not) Lai sells us to someone with even a tiny bit more interest than he has. He's become a Randy Lerner..................Can we fans not have a fan ownership thing like they do in Germany somehow?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 08, 2019, 01:17:29 PM
Agree with Adrian Goldberg.

Our biggest games of the season - more importantly against them - and he cannot be bothered.

Lai out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 08, 2019, 01:38:18 PM
I don't think he'd be welcomed by the vast majority anyway.

Nothing to see here.

COYB and SOTV 8) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: GREGMT on May 08, 2019, 01:56:20 PM
No leadership at the club at all.

Look at Klopp at Liverpool last night. He just radiates confidence.

We have no one with that type of personality.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: chippyclarke on May 08, 2019, 07:10:16 PM
So Lai's not coming but his chairman and director plus some Chinese guests are, so lets let them know what we think of them all. Lai out!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bilston Dan on May 08, 2019, 07:15:55 PM
I don't think he'd be welcomed by the vast majority anyway.

Nothing to see here.

COYB and SOTV 8) .

If they are smart enough, they won't turn up. I think it will just create a toxic atmosphere among the fans in all fairness. The quicker they sod off the better to be honest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: rhobbie on May 08, 2019, 07:42:08 PM
Mr lai , you purchased this club for what reason ? Certainly not because you like football because your absence at our football ground is disgraceful . Why don’t you do all us genuine fans who love this club a favour and sell to someone who has an interest in football and is prepared to invest in our club .
Looks like we got the dodgy Chinese we all dread and gives you belly ache afterwards .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on May 08, 2019, 07:45:05 PM
Mr lai , you purchased this club for what reason ? Certainly not because you like football because your absence at our football ground is disgraceful . Why don’t you do all us genuine fans who love this club a favour and sell to someone who has an interest in football and is prepared to invest in our club .
Looks like we got the dodgy Chinese we all dread and gives you belly ache afterwards .

He purchased the club as a business interest to bolster his coffers and to
Promote his other firms.

I don’t know why people get so wound up about it to be honest. We’ll all be here long after he has gone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on May 08, 2019, 11:07:10 PM
He purchased the club as a business interest to bolster his coffers and to
Promote his other firms.

I don’t know why people get so wound up about it to be honest. We’ll all be here long after he has gone.

Exactly, he isn't one of us and has never pretended to be like his predecessor.

All he cares about is making as much money as he can from us.

Who, the guests coming over to see are potential purchasers. I get the feeling behind the scenes he will be trying to offload us and the dings success may have piqued someone's interest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on May 09, 2019, 04:34:13 PM
What bothers me is the damage Lai May do if all that he is now interested in is recovering his £200m outlay and doesn’t care how he does it. The sooner the ghastly little bloke clears off the better. The awful man shows no respect towards the club or fans, so why should we show him one iota of respect?

LAI OUT

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slate on May 09, 2019, 06:20:46 PM
After reading some of the comments above I understand that fans are unhappy with Lai and I am too, however some of the reasoning is baffling to me.

Many seem to expect him to bleed blue & white, attend more games and throw more money after bad.

Newsflash. He's Chinese. From China. It's a long way away!

He didn't buy our club because he's always followed the baggies or that he's an eccentric billionaire who had gotten tired of playbunnies and yachts.

What he did was to buy a business that he thought would deliver him profit in a self-sustained way whilst using the premier league's global exposure for the benefit of his brand.

Unfortunately he's made several poor decisions and thrown somewhere in the region of £150 million down the drain. I'm surprised that he even showed up to the Brentford game!

As much as we hate it, we are not in the 70's anymore where the club, players and fans were closer together.

This is 2019 and football is a business. Owners are here to make money, 95% of the players are mercenaries and fans are disconnected because quite frankly we do not really matter that much within a business model that is sustained with TV money.

That will continue to be the case until the TV cash dries up and gate receipts & merchandising matter more.

Until then, let's keep our fingers crossed for the playoffs and hope that Lai sells us to a more ambitious owner rather than commencing asset stripping.

Rant over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Wigmore on May 09, 2019, 06:53:01 PM
What bothers me is the damage Lai May do if all that he is now interested in is recovering his £200m outlay and doesn’t care how he does it. The sooner the ghastly little bloke clears off the better. The awful man shows no respect towards the club or fans, so why should we show him one iota of respect?

LAI OUT
You should be prudent about making (publicly available) comments about our owner, given the importance of 'face', within the Chinese community. You claim he shows no respect. How about him choosing some crass colour scheme for the strip, or changing the name? Then your indignation would be more understandable.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on May 10, 2019, 11:20:13 AM
You should be prudent about making (publicly available) comments about our owner, given the importance of 'face', within the Chinese community. You claim he shows no respect. How about him choosing some crass colour scheme for the strip, or changing the name? Then your indignation would be more understandable.

Out of interest, why should he be prudent about making comments like that?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 10, 2019, 10:15:17 PM
I entirely get that fans basically want a fan with deep pockets to be a benefactor. The reality there isn't going to be one. Sorry that person does not exist. To buy out Lai if the club were in the Premier League is going to cost £150m if we bottom out on a forced sale in the Championship maybe £30m or less.

 The former needs a free wealth in the Billion £ range particularly if we are expecting additional investment on top of the initial purchase price. Obviously in the Championship the cost of purchase is much lower but if the cost of promotion is typically a subsidy of £13m a year permitted under FFP then again it requires incredibly deep pockets.

It is very unlikely that any future owner will have any particular connection to club. It is most likely they will not be UK based.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 11, 2019, 09:13:37 AM
I see Bolton are rumoured to be taken over by Chinese investors who apparently are on par with Dingle owners. Ebenezer has got a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 11, 2019, 10:00:05 AM
I see Bolton are rumoured to be taken over by Chinese investors who apparently are on par with Dingle owners. Ebenezer has got a lot to answer for.


Looks like they are buying them out of administration taking the 12 point deduction for a rock bottom price and a relatively clean sheet absolute heroes. They are buying a club in the 3rd teir of English who will be lucky not to be relegated to the 4th teir.

Peace for all his faults and the last 4 years were totally obssessed with the sale did actually sell a self sustaining Premier League football club for a price that given other quoted prices for Premier League clubs was not outrageous. The biggest and possibly worst error he made was recommending Williams as Chairman.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on May 11, 2019, 05:45:40 PM
Lai is a total ****. I don't care what people say about us wanting fans in charge or any of that. The fact is, he is an uninterested businessman, who bought the club for unclear reasons, has shown zero interest and has mismanaged us at every step. The better we are rid of this total parasite the better.

Jeremy "i'm an Albion fan" Peace's parting gift to us was this total ******.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on May 13, 2019, 01:06:55 PM
If we don't go up this year, I struggle to see us going up with Lai as chairman.

He doesn't have the knowledge of football, and keeps appointing men with no clue how to run a football club - Williams, Jenkins, etc.

We have no long term vision, and he seems caught between a rock and a hard place. He can't sell the club because he'll lose money, but he can't keep running it because he'll keep losing money.

I think we're in for a bumpy ride, and we could go the way of Bolton or Coventry if things are really badly run.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 13, 2019, 01:19:37 PM
Yes, genuinely fear for us if he doesnt sell at a loss or go all out next season. Dark days ahead if he just maintains the status quo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 13, 2019, 02:33:01 PM
If we don't go up this year, I struggle to see us going up with Lai as chairman.

He doesn't have the knowledge of football, and keeps appointing men with no clue how to run a football club - Williams, Jenkins, etc.

We have no long term vision, and he seems caught between a rock and a hard place. He can't sell the club because he'll lose money, but he can't keep running it because he'll keep losing money.

I think we're in for a bumpy ride, and we could go the way of Bolton or Coventry if things are really badly run.


Seriously?

GL has allegedly paid between £150 & £200 million for WBA, & he's just going to let that dwindle to nothing?

Next season, (assuming we don't get promoted) our parachute payment is allegedly around £7.5 million less than this season.
You would assume that means reducing the wage bill by a similar amount. On the other hand, I've read today, that Rondon has a £16.5 million release clause in his contract, if we can get that, it would be possible to retain all of our players on the same level of wages as they are now.
I  don't think next season is going to be a major financial problem to us, however, we have lost Richard Garlick, who was mainly responsible for sorting out contracts, & Simon Carrington who also was a major player in the finance department. I'm not sure what calibre of exec we've now got in those roles.
I believe it would be wrong to say that Mark Jenkins doesn't know how to run a football club. I've never met him. but those who have say he tends to be rather abrupt & offhand. I'm not sure he's a great people person, but I do think he's a good financial man.
Like Jeremy Peace, I would say he is risk averse, so he's more likely than not to take the safe option, but I certainly don't see us taking the gambles that have left Coventry & Bolton in their current predicaments
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on May 13, 2019, 03:02:06 PM

Seriously?

GL has allegedly paid between £150 & £200 million for WBA, & he's just going to let that dwindle to nothing?

Next season, (assuming we don't get promoted) our parachute payment is allegedly around £7.5 million less than this season.
You would assume that means reducing the wage bill by a similar amount. On the other hand, I've read today, that Rondon has a £16.5 million release clause in his contract, if we can get that, it would be possible to retain all of our players on the same level of wages as they are now.
I  don't think next season is going to be a major financial problem to us, however, we have lost Richard Garlick, who was mainly responsible for sorting out contracts, & Simon Carrington who also was a major player in the finance department. I'm not sure what calibre of exec we've now got in those roles.
I believe it would be wrong to say that Mark Jenkins doesn't know how to run a football club. I've never met him. but those who have say he tends to be rather abrupt & offhand. I'm not sure he's a great people person, but I do think he's a good financial man.
Like Jeremy Peace, I would say he is risk averse, so he's more likely than not to take the safe option, but I certainly don't see us taking the gambles that have left Coventry & Bolton in their current predicaments

would you want to retain players that have failed us 2 seasons in a row ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 13, 2019, 05:07:06 PM
would you want to retain players that have failed us 2 seasons in a row ?

Perhaps I should have said there will be no financial need to sell players.

I don't think we will need to have a significant reduction in our wage bill next season
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 15, 2019, 12:31:26 AM
He should hopefully be on a plane back to Birmingham and his first decision should be to sack Jenkins

You have a run a threadbare squad all season, relied on freebies and short term loans and gambled with our future.

You failed. Your gamble did not pay off.

Now **** off
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on May 15, 2019, 12:34:16 AM
He should hopefully be on a plane back to Birmingham and his first decision should be to sack Jenkins

You have a run a threadbare squad all season, relied on freebies and short term loans and gambled with our future.

You failed. Your gamble did not pay off.

Now **** off
Quick enough to sack Williams and Goodman so can only hope , take Dowling with him too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 15, 2019, 12:42:33 AM
Someone should tell me what Dowling does

Professional quiff waver
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 16, 2019, 03:31:01 PM
I read on facebook that Lai would be able to get cash out of China again come september, anyone seen this and if so, can you explain the logic please.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on May 16, 2019, 03:39:08 PM
If you only have one business venture outside China the government put a three year ban on any money being invested in it.
It won't make any difference until the January window though even if he invests.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 16, 2019, 03:44:10 PM
If you only have one business venture outside China the government put a three year ban on any money being invested in it.
It won't make any difference until the January window though even if he invests.
The club could take a short term loan based upon this though surely. (obv, assuming he sanctions it)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on May 16, 2019, 04:22:27 PM
Was his intention ever to put any money in though? It was said when he brought it that the same model of being self sufficient would be kept but obviously that could change with now being in the Championship as we are no good for him in this league
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 16, 2019, 04:25:03 PM
Was his intention ever to put any money in though? It was said when he brought it that the same model of being self sufficient would be kept but obviously that could change with now being in the Championship as we are no good for him in this league

My question was raised as I was wondering (that once the embargo no longer applied), if he would be prepared to invest to achieve the prem, ie ditching the self financing model
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on May 16, 2019, 04:42:30 PM
I can't see him selling up, as it would be deemed as failure back in China, which is dishonorable in their society. He's lumbered with a 'Sows Ear' that he can't sell as a 'Silk Purse'. If he throws money at it to try and achieve promotion, will he see a return in his investment?? Highly unlikely. He overpaid in the first place. JP was laughing his socks off all the way to the bank. Lai has been royally screwed over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiecarl on May 16, 2019, 07:24:06 PM
Lai has been royally screwed by the 'Bald one" but unfortunately  so have the Albion
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 16, 2019, 07:43:55 PM
I expect he will inject some cash as soon as is possible under Chinese governance. He's not got much choice, we need to be in the Premier League for him to get a return on his investment and save face.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 16, 2019, 08:11:16 PM
I expect he will inject some cash as soon as is possible under Chinese governance. He's not got much choice, we need to be in the Premier League for him to get a return on his investment and save face.
One of the things that eastern Asians do not want to be seen doing is "losing face".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 16, 2019, 08:28:54 PM
I expect he will inject some cash as soon as is possible under Chinese governance. He's not got much choice, we need to be in the Premier League for him to get a return on his investment and save face.

He hasn't got any cash, he needed a loan to buy the club and hasn't put a penny in since. His lack of investment is nothing to do with Chinese governance, else FOSUN wouldn't be busy spending money at Wolves like confetti. Our owner is small time. Sold out by JP. Next season will be another case of trying to use the parachute payments to fund a promotion push. I expect we will have a similar budget to this years as selling Rondon and anybody else will provide a bit of cash. I've completely given up on the owner. Doubt we will see him even turn up at the Hawthorns unless we go up and have a glamour game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 16, 2019, 08:33:37 PM
The longer we remain down here the further away from  any chance of recouping his money he becomes. He must act this season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 16, 2019, 08:38:22 PM
He hasn't got any cash, he needed a loan to buy the club and hasn't put a penny in since. His lack of investment is nothing to do with Chinese governance, else FOSUN wouldn't be busy spending money at Wolves like confetti. Our owner is small time. Sold out by JP. Next season will be another case of trying to use the parachute payments to fund a promotion push. I expect we will have a similar budget to this years as selling Rondon and anybody else will provide a bit of cash. I've completely given up on the owner. Doubt we will see him even turn up at the Hawthorns unless we go up and have a glamour game.


Another one who doesn't understand Chinese finance. FOSUN have huge holdings outside China and can spend that money freely.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on May 16, 2019, 10:28:18 PM

Another one who doesn't understand Chinese finance. FOSUN have huge holdings outside China and can spend that money freely.

It's a good job we have you then to educate us all.

World Bank economist and professor of Chinese finance and the finder of any spurious website link to support poor little Lai and his inability to spend his billions on us.

Accept it you don't know anymore than anybody else about Lai's finances, yet you defend him and his tenure to the hilt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 16, 2019, 11:37:14 PM
I can't see him selling up, as it would be deemed as failure back in China, which is dishonorable in their society. He's lumbered with a 'Sows Ear' that he can't sell as a 'Silk Purse'. If he throws money at it to try and achieve promotion, will he see a return in his investment?? Highly unlikely. He overpaid in the first place. JP was laughing his socks off all the way to the bank. Lai has been royally screwed over.

He didn’t “overpay” in the first place.  He bought a Premier League club with no debt.   He subsequently put the wrong people in charge and turned it into a Championship club.  It was fine when he bought it!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 16, 2019, 11:46:25 PM
It's a good job we have you then to educate us all.

World Bank economist and professor of Chinese finance and the finder of any spurious website link to support poor little Lai and his inability to spend his billions on us.

Accept it you don't know anymore than anybody else about Lai's finances, yet you defend him and his tenure to the hilt.

He’s right though.   The current Chinese currency restrictions came into force just after he bought the club, preventing further currency exports, and yes, Fosun had large existing foreign currency reserves already which they could spend (but they also can’t get any new money out currently).

Dr Simon Chadwick on Twitter knows this subject better than anybody.  No need to be an expert, just follow him on @Prof_Chadwick

And let’s not forget that Lai made it crystal clear when he bought the club that it would continue to be self-financing, just as it was under Peace.  Unfortunately whilst that model works in the Premier League, it doesn’t work in the Championship once the parachute funding runs out, which is why nearly every Championship club owes large debts to its owners.  If Lai cannot fund that, then selling up after next season without promotion is essential.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on May 17, 2019, 02:08:41 AM
He’s right though.   The current Chinese currency restrictions came into force just after he bought the club, preventing further currency exports, and yes, Fosun had large existing foreign currency reserves already which they could spend (but they also can’t get any new money out currently).

Dr Simon Chadwick on Twitter knows this subject better than anybody.  No need to be an expert, just follow him on @Prof_Chadwick

And let’s not forget that Lai made it crystal clear when he bought the club that it would continue to be self-financing, just as it was under Peace.  Unfortunately whilst that model works in the Premier League, it doesn’t work in the Championship once the parachute funding runs out, which is why nearly every Championship club owes large debts to its owners.  If Lai cannot fund that, then selling up after next season without promotion is essential.

I have heard chadwick on the radio and take what he says with a pinch of salt when I see LK Bennett being bought out of administration by a chinese company only last month.

The fact is very low interest loans have stopped in China and with that has gone the availability for lai to borrow more.

Like you says though he wants to run it like peace, so it is a moot point whatever his wealth is in China as he has no intention of using it on us anyway.

What I don't subscribe to is what is peddled on here by without any foundation at all that lai is the victim of the Chinese regime and basically he has billions, which doesn't matter anyway because like you say he wants to run it like peace.

But, there is no proof at all that he is any different from a chancer like Dr x was at vile who wanted to take profits from the anticipated prem money, but whose gamble backfired.

What there is proof of is that he is an easily lead fool, who knows nothing about football and its administration and listened to peace in appointing fools like Goodman and Williams and then he got recommended the idiot terraeno, having seen his cv, who alienated everybody and then was finally sidelined when MJ came back.

What this naive buffoon thought, was yes I'll buy this club for £200m, saw the dividend of £27m and a history of profits and thought, that'll do me, I'll buy this and the continuing profits will service my debt etc pay back my capital outlay in a few years and happy days.

It would not surprise me at all if he had not even known about relegation and the championship and thought it was like American sport.

Our only hope is he knows some real rich people who can actually take us off his hands. Some actual clever people who have a plan like fosun and who have the actual football knowledge of someone like mendes in a partnership and most importantly a plan and ambition.

Add to all these excuses about currency restrictions the  FFP rules you have all the excuses for him to do f all to progress the Albion.

We have been sold by one scum bag to another one imo. We have a not fit for purpose ground and had no improvement to it after unparalleled revenues flowing into the club since 2002.

We cannot grow our fan base because our previous owner who came in as a West brom born West brom fan thought we were a mid sized championship club and we couldn't fill our ground when really he'd rather declare profits and pay taxes in order to show a history of profits to attract a lai.

We as fans have been well and truly been shafted by our owners.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 17, 2019, 02:36:02 AM
I have heard chadwick on the radio and take what he says with a pinch of salt when I see LK Bennett being bought out of administration by a chinese company only last month.

The fact is very low interest loans have stopped in China and with that has gone the availability for lai to borrow more.

Like you says though he wants to run it like peace, so it is a moot point whatever his wealth is in China as he has no intention of using it on us anyway.

What I don't subscribe to is what is peddled on here by without any foundation at all that lai is the victim of the Chinese regime and basically he has billions, which doesn't matter anyway because like you say he wants to run it like peace.

But, there is no proof at all that he is any different from a chancer like Dr x was at vile who wanted to take profits from the anticipated prem money, but whose gamble backfired.

What there is proof of is that he is an easily lead fool, who knows nothing about football and its administration and listened to peace in appointing fools like Goodman and Williams and then he got recommended the idiot terraeno, having seen his cv, who alienated everybody and then was finally sidelined when MJ came back.

What this naive buffoon thought, was yes I'll buy this club for £200m, saw the dividend of £27m and a history of profits and thought, that'll do me, I'll buy this and the continuing profits will service my debt etc pay back my capital outlay in a few years and happy days.

It would not surprise me at all if he had not even known about relegation and the championship and thought it was like American sport.

Our only hope is he knows some real rich people who can actually take us off his hands. Some actual clever people who have a plan like fosun and who have the actual football knowledge of someone like mendes in a partnership and most importantly a plan and ambition.

Add to all these excuses about currency restrictions the  FFP rules you have all the excuses for him to do f all to progress the Albion.

We have been sold by one scum bag to another one imo. We have a not fit for purpose ground and had no improvement to it after unparalleled revenues flowing into the club since 2002.

We cannot grow our fan base because our previous owner who came in as a West brom born West brom fan thought we were a mid sized championship club and we couldn't fill our ground when really he'd rather declare profits and pay taxes in order to show a history of profits to attract a lai.

We as fans have been well and truly been shafted by our owners.


You literally buy all the spin. I'll continue tomorrow.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 17, 2019, 06:34:04 AM
Its a pity Mr Lai wasn't here on Tuesday to see what this club means to so many people and the potential there, if it was tapped into.
He could have watched the game and had a free customer survey all in one hit
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 17, 2019, 07:46:54 AM
I have heard chadwick on the radio and take what he says with a pinch of salt when I see LK Bennett being bought out of administration by a chinese company only last month.

The fact is very low interest loans have stopped in China and with that has gone the availability for lai to borrow more.

Like you says though he wants to run it like peace, so it is a moot point whatever his wealth is in China as he has no intention of using it on us anyway.

What I don't subscribe to is what is peddled on here by without any foundation at all that lai is the victim of the Chinese regime and basically he has billions, which doesn't matter anyway because like you say he wants to run it like peace.

But, there is no proof at all that he is any different from a chancer like Dr x was at vile who wanted to take profits from the anticipated prem money, but whose gamble backfired.

What there is proof of is that he is an easily lead fool, who knows nothing about football and its administration and listened to peace in appointing fools like Goodman and Williams and then he got recommended the idiot terraeno, having seen his cv, who alienated everybody and then was finally sidelined when MJ came back.

What this naive buffoon thought, was yes I'll buy this club for £200m, saw the dividend of £27m and a history of profits and thought, that'll do me, I'll buy this and the continuing profits will service my debt etc pay back my capital outlay in a few years and happy days.

It would not surprise me at all if he had not even known about relegation and the championship and thought it was like American sport.

Our only hope is he knows some real rich people who can actually take us off his hands. Some actual clever people who have a plan like fosun and who have the actual football knowledge of someone like mendes in a partnership and most importantly a plan and ambition.

Add to all these excuses about currency restrictions the  FFP rules you have all the excuses for him to do f all to progress the Albion.

We have been sold by one scum bag to another one imo. We have a not fit for purpose ground and had no improvement to it after unparalleled revenues flowing into the club since 2002.

We cannot grow our fan base because our previous owner who came in as a West brom born West brom fan thought we were a mid sized championship club and we couldn't fill our ground when really he'd rather declare profits and pay taxes in order to show a history of profits to attract a lai.

We as fans have been well and truly been shafted by our owners.

Chadwick is a renowned expert on the subject.

Currency restrictions regarding football investments were specific.  Look it up. How many clubs abroad have been bought by Chinese investors since we were bought?   The LK Bennett purchase was made by a Chinese company with existing overseas funds out of which to buy it - so no currency approval required.

Nobody really knows the extent of Lai’s personal wealth. But it doesn’t matter whether it’s $3.5 billion or $350m.  If it’s in China then he currently can’t get it out, and even if he could get it out, FFP would prevent him from ploughing it into the club.

I think you are right re relegation. He either didn’t realise it was a possibility, or he took that gamble and lost.  Any of 13/14 clubs in the PL are 6 losses away from a relegation battle.

He was crystal clear about it being self-funding when he bought it.  Relegation has knackered that business plan.  That’s why he really needs us to get up next season, and that why it is logical that player sale proceeds will be available to our next manager.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 17, 2019, 08:32:38 AM
I have heard chadwick on the radio and take what he says with a pinch of salt when I see LK Bennett being bought out of administration by a chinese company only last month.

The fact is very low interest loans have stopped in China and with that has gone the availability for lai to borrow more.

Like you says though he wants to run it like peace, so it is a moot point whatever his wealth is in China as he has no intention of using it on us anyway.

What I don't subscribe to is what is peddled on here by without any foundation at all that lai is the victim of the Chinese regime and basically he has billions, which doesn't matter anyway because like you say he wants to run it like peace.

But, there is no proof at all that he is any different from a chancer like Dr x was at vile who wanted to take profits from the anticipated prem money, but whose gamble backfired.

What there is proof of is that he is an easily lead fool, who knows nothing about football and its administration and listened to peace in appointing fools like Goodman and Williams and then he got recommended the idiot terraeno, having seen his cv, who alienated everybody and then was finally sidelined when MJ came back.

What this naive buffoon thought, was yes I'll buy this club for £200m, saw the dividend of £27m and a history of profits and thought, that'll do me, I'll buy this and the continuing profits will service my debt etc pay back my capital outlay in a few years and happy days.

It would not surprise me at all if he had not even known about relegation and the championship and thought it was like American sport.

Our only hope is he knows some real rich people who can actually take us off his hands. Some actual clever people who have a plan like fosun and who have the actual football knowledge of someone like mendes in a partnership and most importantly a plan and ambition.

Add to all these excuses about currency restrictions the  FFP rules you have all the excuses for him to do f all to progress the Albion.

We have been sold by one scum bag to another one imo. We have a not fit for purpose ground and had no improvement to it after unparalleled revenues flowing into the club since 2002.

We cannot grow our fan base because our previous owner who came in as a West brom born West brom fan thought we were a mid sized championship club and we couldn't fill our ground when really he'd rather declare profits and pay taxes in order to show a history of profits to attract a lai.

We as fans have been well and truly been shafted by our owners.

Good speech, but don't you think Peace would have carried out some checks on Lai to make sure he (Peace) gets paid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on May 17, 2019, 10:41:50 AM
What i don't understand is that Peace said he could take us no further, and put us up for sale so someone with money could push the club on to the next level.
He sold us to a billionaire owner then told the owner to run the club on a self sufficient basis. What is the point of that?
He might as well have stayed he himself and quiblled over £5k for a player every window.
As for Lai, he was the only Chinese owner of a prem club when he bought us, now Wolves have left us in their slipstream and Villa are threatening to do the same.
Our club and fans never seem to learn from being complacent. Even now we had fans saying we are doing ok we are still 4th in the championship. We might as well be 14th in the championship if we don't go up at the end of the season. 1st and 2nd are successful, anything else bar a play off lottery win is failure.
Being complacent, some might say tight, has cost us not only our premiership place but the top dogs of the Midlands boasting rights.
I just hope Lai isn't as gullible as he makes out to be, but the silence from him is deafening, and the people he has employed to run the club i have no confidence in at all. They are businessmen not football men.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 17, 2019, 10:58:38 AM
This speculation is all well & good, but we don't know for sure why Lai bought the club. We were told that it sat well in his plans to develop eco towns in China, alongside the Chinese Government's plans to develop China as a global force in football.
I'm not sure that Lai has the personal wealth claimed, but evidence suggests that he has backing for the eco town projects to the value of several billion pounds.
I'm not sure that Lai's is an investment business (in the same way that Fosun & Wanda are), & it may well be that his projects are closely linked to the Chinese government, so he has to toe the line in financial affairs.
If the above theory is correct, then global events between China & the US will also not be helping our cause, particularly in relations to Huewai.
On the other hand Lai & China will want to ensure that the alleged £200 million (of Chinese money) will not be wasted, & I suspect that our UK board will be backed (at least for next season)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on May 17, 2019, 11:09:36 AM
I only hope he hasn't bought us to use our name to develop sports  in China, but the more i think about it the more likely it seems, especially with the chinese reportedly offering £30m for Rondon, and using our cub to buy a Chinese "whizzkid" we never saw.
It doesn't look very promising does it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on May 17, 2019, 12:22:34 PM
obviously we will now know over the next few months if hes bothered
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on May 17, 2019, 01:10:29 PM
When he bought us didn't he say that he wanted to do so in order to tap in to our Academy setup in order to set them up in China....

I would suggest that he could have done that by employing a half decent Academy Manager for a fraction of the reported £150million he spend on us.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 17, 2019, 02:29:31 PM
Any news on whether he took up the early bird offer  :-X ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on May 17, 2019, 04:16:10 PM
Any news on whether he took up the early bird offer  :-X ?
No mate, he bought all those poxey flags with his season ticket money. Shame you lot didn't get one by the way. ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 17, 2019, 06:15:27 PM
The penny might have last dropped with this owner, senior player's being released, Harper offered new and I presume improved contract.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on May 17, 2019, 06:17:16 PM
The penny might have last dropped with this owner, senior player's being released, Harper offered new and I presume improved contract.

None of the above is an owner's remit. At best it's the chairman but realistically it's Dowling and to an extent Jenkins.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 21, 2019, 11:21:29 PM
From an article written by Matt Wilson for the E&S

“Not signing him (Dwight Gayle) is symptomatic of an ownership model that appears to be gearing up for the first stage of a managed decline into mediocrity.

“It’s a damning indictment on the disparity between the Premier League and the Championship, but also a worrying forewarning of what’s to come under Guochuan Lai.”

Now, I’m really getting worried!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 21, 2019, 11:38:58 PM
Don’t buy the managed decline bit, managed yes, decline not,
We clearly need improved fiscal management as we contrived to pi55 away 8 years prem money in 12 months!!!
There is no logic in Lai planning for us to decline (it may happen but he will not be planning it).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 21, 2019, 11:46:35 PM
From an article written by Matt Wilson for the E&S

“Not signing him (Dwight Gayle) is symptomatic of an ownership model that appears to be gearing up for the first stage of a managed decline into mediocrity.

“It’s a damning indictment on the disparity between the Premier League and the Championship, but also a worrying forewarning of what’s to come under Guochuan Lai.”

Now, I’m really getting worried!




According to Chadwick & people who know the Chinese financial circuit, Entrepreneurs are queueing  up to buy European Football Clubs.
Just can't see Lai letting it go,

Sure, he wants us to be run frugally, but I  can't see him putting a £200 million investment at risk.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 21, 2019, 11:47:39 PM
Don’t buy the managed decline bit, managed yes, decline not,
We clearly need improved fiscal management as we contrived to pi55 away 8 years prem money in 12 months!!!
There is no logic in Lai planning for us to decline (it may happen but he will not be planning it).

I suspect that the appointment of the new Head Coach will add clarity to the debate about what the decline strategy is or isn’t.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on May 22, 2019, 12:02:27 AM



According to Chadwick & people who know the Chinese financial circuit, Entrepreneurs are queueing  up to buy European Football Clubs.
Just can't see Lai letting it go,

Sure, he wants us to be run frugally, but I  can't see him putting a £200 million investment at risk.
If the first bit is true, then they’ll be looking for sensibly priced clubs. If so, what are we worth now? I’m sure it’s a lot less than our supposed owner would want.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 22, 2019, 12:09:22 AM
Matt Wilson is smelling the coffee. The owner isn't injecting any money in and we are on a path to being a small mid-table championship team.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on May 22, 2019, 06:36:02 AM
Lai Out - that is all there is left to say
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 22, 2019, 06:53:38 AM
Don’t buy the managed decline bit, managed yes, decline not,
We clearly need improved fiscal management as we contrived to pi55 away 8 years prem money in 12 months!!!
There is no logic in Lai planning for us to decline (it may happen but he will not be planning it).

How did we “piss away 8 years prem money in 12 months”?  What we did for 7 of those 8 years was operate within our means without any debt and stay up without going into debt.   In the 8th year (only), we over-spent and got relegated.   

Did you expect us to bank tens of millions every year and still survive in the PL?

At the end of the 2018 relegation season we still had a net positive balance sheet of around £40m.  Am not sure that really “pissed anything away”.   Anyone who thinks that we did clearly doesn’t understand football finance.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 22, 2019, 08:47:17 AM
How did we “piss away 8 years prem money in 12 months”?  What we did for 7 of those 8 years was operate within our means without any debt and stay up without going into debt.   In the 8th year (only), we over-spent and got relegated.   

Did you expect us to bank tens of millions every year and still survive in the PL?

At the end of the 2018 relegation season we still had a net positive balance sheet of around £40m.  Am not sure that really “inebriated anything away”.   Anyone who thinks that we did clearly doesn’t understand football finance.

Just looked at the accounts & while it showed an increase in intangible assets of £30 million, it showed a corresponding decrease of £30 million in cash as an asset.
In effect, we converted cash to players, let's just hope we can get the £30 million for them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 22, 2019, 09:13:01 AM
How did we “piss away 8 years prem money in 12 months”?  What we did for 7 of those 8 years was operate within our means without any debt and stay up without going into debt.   In the 8th year (only), we over-spent and got relegated.   

Did you expect us to bank tens of millions every year and still survive in the PL?

At the end of the 2018 relegation season we still had a net positive balance sheet of around £40m.  Am not sure that really “inebriated anything away”.   Anyone who thinks that we did clearly doesn’t understand football finance.

I would imagine paying £250k a week to Sturridge and Krychowiak plus a reported £5m a piece for loan fees didn't help
Take Evans on £80k a week and he walked away with no transfer fee.
Take an average of £40k a week for the remainder of the squad plus bonus' and it soon goes down the drain
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 22, 2019, 09:26:02 AM
I dont think sacking Pulis and Pardew came free either......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on May 22, 2019, 09:38:31 AM
These figures underline how poorly we have been run since JP left.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on May 22, 2019, 10:28:09 AM
We got bought by the only Chinese businessman with no money to spend.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 22, 2019, 10:55:39 AM
I would imagine paying £250k a week to Sturridge and Krychowiak plus a reported £5m a piece for loan fees didn't help
Take Evans on £80k a week and he walked away with no transfer fee.
Take an average of £40k a week for the remainder of the squad plus bonus' and it soon goes down the drain

It's all about risk & reward.
All of the above would have been OK if we had stayed in the EPL.
IMO, the big risk was using the £30 million in accumulated cash (our rainy day fund) to move up a couple of places in the EPL.
We now have a rainy day fund of around £9 million cash & players with a book value of £30 million,
That's the legacy we're left with.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 22, 2019, 01:22:46 PM
How did we “piss away 8 years prem money in 12 months”?  What we did for 7 of those 8 years was operate within our means without any debt and stay up without going into debt.   In the 8th year (only), we over-spent and got relegated.   

Did you expect us to bank tens of millions every year and still survive in the PL?

At the end of the 2018 relegation season we still had a net positive balance sheet of around £40m.  Am not sure that really “inebriated anything away”.   Anyone who thinks that we did clearly doesn’t understand football finance.

I take your point, but only up to a point.

Over the 8 prem seasons we stabilised the clubs finances, accrued funds and improved the squad and facilities
It seems that it the last season we have depleted the squad massively, lost all contingency funding and have cash flow issues such that we needed an overdraft (bridging loan?)

While the term I used for "wasting the relatively stable financial position" was emotional, I don't need a Phd is business finance to know that the last 12 -18 months a lot of monies were wasted by the club, examples to numerous to repeat have been quoted above.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 22, 2019, 07:05:07 PM
This idea we spent and wasted a war chest of £40m built up over years in our relegation season misses the spot. Firstly, with annual PL income of £110-150m spending £40m is not a big statement. All we did was spend the extra TV money earned the year before for finishing 11th rather than 17th. Spending in one season what you earned the season before is nothing special. Most PL clubs are far more ambitious and take much bigger risks. TP, wasted most of it on Burke and Polish bloke on loan etc. That in itself was predictable as decent footballers do not want to play for TP and we're looked on as a small club lacking ambition given the failure to grow the infrastructure and fan base - entirely correct. This current chairman was sold the club on the basis we could stay in the PL and make £5m each season, without any money in. Ludicrous really. But JP could show him the accounts of 3/4 years steady if small profit. He did that of course at the expense of expanding the stadium and fan base, keeping the accounts lovely and tight - for his own gain.  The current chairman has only taken us sideways and back. Indictment of him and his predecessor who spun the story that he was selling for the club to move forward with investment he couldn't put in - not true as Lai isn't putting a penny in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on May 22, 2019, 09:10:09 PM
The problem is how much money went out, only to leave us with virtually no salable assets in the first team squad.

We paid £100k+ per week to Sturridge and Krychwiak, but they weren't our players, essentially dead money.

The squad was full of older players on big money, with little to nothing in terms of sell-on value (Barry, McAuley, Morrison, Brunt, Myhill, etc).

The players that we did spend big money on were at the peak years of their careers, and unlikely to have further big money moves (Rodriguez, Gibbs).

Then you have committing so much of our money on a player of unproven quality (Burke). If you're spending that much of Albion's money on a player, then it has to be for somebody who is first team ready.

All of this, plus the dead money wasted on pay-offs for Pulis, Megson, and Pardew, means that we committed a lot of the clubs money for no return, while lumbering us with big money contracts which we couldn't finance in a lower division. If you're a club like Albion, you can't afford to sanction paying out this money on temporary measures and long-term risks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 24, 2019, 01:03:43 PM
Not even paid up the 4.1m he owes us to help us out for this season but found £6m for that turd striker from China easily enough!

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/05/24/owner-guochuan-lai-owes-west-brom-41m-because-of-loan-he-inherited-from-jeremy-peace/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on May 24, 2019, 01:09:50 PM
Lai Out, my stock response these days
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on May 24, 2019, 01:11:15 PM
Did you read the article? It's just a passing on of a loan from Peace's holding company to Lai's.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 24, 2019, 01:14:32 PM
Yes but what i'm saying is he owes us so he should pay up. If he can find bigger sums of money to waste on awful players. That money could be used to help us compete. I'm not saying he won't pay up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 24, 2019, 01:18:23 PM
The wording of the article is a bit odd it seems out of date, it talks of us "now" being out of the premier league and that we face "financial downsizing due to being relegated to the second tier", it's as if it was written last year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 24, 2019, 01:19:29 PM
Billionaire don't make me laugh can't even pay of a debt of 4.1 million, Ebenezer scrooged us big time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on May 24, 2019, 01:26:41 PM
Billionaire don't make me laugh can't even pay of a debt of 4.1 million, Ebenezer scrooged us big time.

It's not that he can't, it's that he hasn't been asked to.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 24, 2019, 01:28:11 PM
Billionaire don't make me laugh can't even pay of a debt of 4.1 million, Ebenezer scrooged us big time.

nowhere in the article does it say he can't pay the money, just that he hasn't. Maybe like under Peace it suits his company not to pay it back yet. It's up to the club to ask for it if they want it, it clearly states that in the article.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 24, 2019, 01:34:34 PM
It's not that he can't, it's that he hasn't been asked to.

Maybe he can give it us now rather than faffing around with his silly vanity projects.

Might help us sign someone half decent..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on May 24, 2019, 01:38:40 PM
Maybe he can give it us now rather than faffing around with his silly vanity projects.

Might help us sign someone half decent..

You mean his actual businesses? I'd say that we are his vanity project.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 24, 2019, 02:02:26 PM
nowhere in the article does it say he can't pay the money, just that he hasn't. Maybe like under Peace it suits his company not to pay it back yet. It's up to the club to ask for it if they want it, it clearly states that in the article.

I would have thought it would have been cheaper for him to pay that loan back rather than take out an overdraft  for the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on May 24, 2019, 02:08:05 PM
Got more chance of seeing Lord Lucan at the Albion than Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on May 24, 2019, 02:15:38 PM
Got more chance of seeing Lord Lucan at the Albion than Lai.

Or even Devon Baggie  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 24, 2019, 02:35:57 PM
Anyone remember that guy who used to come on here and seemed farly ITK, Name Steve? SteveB or somethig like that?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbawill on May 24, 2019, 02:53:14 PM
It's accruing interest, so until the club needs the money, it's better to not get it repaid. As it is money owed to the club, I imagine it wouldn't count towards FFP rules when he pays it? This summer might be a good time to get it though, it would pay for Gayle's wages for over a year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on May 24, 2019, 03:06:34 PM
I actually feel a bit sorry for Lai. He clearly knew little or nothing about football in UK, and was fed a bloody good line by JP about making good money from the club.
He was taken to the cleaners by JP, who lets not forget had the clubs best interests at heart????? He took the money and ran. Lai is left with a sick dog that he cant afford to heal. I think he will sit back and pray that the next manager can pull a rabbit out the hat and get us promoted, at which point he will try to recoup his outlay. He can throw money at it, but whats the guarantee it will be well spent, remembering the last 2 years, where we have wasted so much money on ordinary players. If I owned the club i wouldnt be throwing money at it right now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 24, 2019, 04:11:04 PM
I actually feel a bit sorry for Lai. He clearly knew little or nothing about football in UK, and was fed a bloody good line by JP about making good money from the club.
He was taken to the cleaners by JP, who lets not forget had the clubs best interests at heart????? He took the money and ran. Lai is left with a sick dog that he cant afford to heal. I think he will sit back and pray that the next manager can pull a rabbit out the hat and get us promoted, at which point he will try to recoup his outlay. He can throw money at it, but whats the guarantee it will be well spent, remembering the last 2 years, where we have wasted so much money on ordinary players. If I owned the club i wouldnt be throwing money at it right now.
don't forget the players who were already on the books and the contracts they received, still gob smacked that HRK got a contract worth £50,000.00 plus a week.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 24, 2019, 04:17:54 PM
I actually feel a bit sorry for Lai. He clearly knew little or nothing about football in UK, and was fed a bloody good line by JP about making good money from the club.
He was taken to the cleaners by JP, who lets not forget had the clubs best interests at heart????? He took the money and ran. Lai is left with a sick dog that he cant afford to heal. I think he will sit back and pray that the next manager can pull a rabbit out the hat and get us promoted, at which point he will try to recoup his outlay. He can throw money at it, but whats the guarantee it will be well spent, remembering the last 2 years, where we have wasted so much money on ordinary players. If I owned the club i wouldnt be throwing money at it right now.

Well, if he carries out due diligence in the same manner he did when buying us with his other companies, I'm surprised he's still has any businesses. The Chinese are very business savvy, he knew what he was buying and took the risk, oh and the Chinese like gambling as well I'm lead to believe.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on May 24, 2019, 06:09:23 PM
Well, if he carries out due diligence in the same manner he did when buying us with his other companies, I'm surprised he's still has any businesses. The Chinese are very business savvy, he knew what he was buying and took the risk, oh and the Chines like gambling as well I'm lead to believe.
The Chines? Isle of Wight innit? :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 24, 2019, 06:38:54 PM
The Chines? Isle of Wight innit? :D

Sorted  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: slate on May 24, 2019, 07:03:47 PM
I actually feel a bit sorry for Lai. He clearly knew little or nothing about football in UK, and was fed a bloody good line by JP about making good money from the club.
He was taken to the cleaners by JP, who lets not forget had the clubs best interests at heart????? He took the money and ran. Lai is left with a sick dog that he cant afford to heal. I think he will sit back and pray that the next manager can pull a rabbit out the hat and get us promoted, at which point he will try to recoup his outlay. He can throw money at it, but whats the guarantee it will be well spent, remembering the last 2 years, where we have wasted so much money on ordinary players. If I owned the club i wouldnt be throwing money at it right now.


Come on that is rather disingenuous. You clearly have no time for Peace, and I agree that he got top dollar for our club but it was in a very good state when he sold it. It’s what happened after the sale that’s screwed us and that’s on Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2019, 07:07:38 PM
It's not that he can't, it's that he hasn't been asked to.


Think this is a non story.

You're correct, it's up to the club to call the loan in, but if it's accumulating interest why would they?
For me, it's positive news, if we've not called it in, it's likely we're not as "cash strapped" as we thought.
As far as FFP is concerned, again it's a positive, the loan will sit on our books as an asset.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 24, 2019, 07:32:47 PM
Just saw this thread on Chris Lepkowski’s Twitter Account

May be a case of hell has no wrath etc. etc. Have no idea what the implications are.

This is a big deal on many fronts. Firstly, loan taken out in 2014 - that particular summer was one of 8 frees/loans of players (Gamboa, Davison, Samaras) on relatively modest wages (though they did pay £10m for Browns). Also the year of Irvine arrival - so basically all low cost

Secondly, Jenkins was the sole director of Group from 2013 to late 2016. Also, Peace sold Holdings ( August 2016 ) when the FC directors knew the loan was partly in default –and no interest paid. Jenkins is now CEO and so therefore some burden of responsibility to call in loan?

When one repayment is missed - as has happened - notice could be given demanding the whole loan back; a normal condition of repayment loans. But not this one? Strange.

Crucially, in a week where WBA have pleaded poverty and tried to offset the non-signing of Gayle against ensuring staff won't be made redundant, they are owed in excess of £4.1m - a figure that would easily help ease financial issues, possibly even pay for 12 months of Gayle.

Basically, the whole thing stinks

Jenkins has Qs to answer. Loan taken out (in 2014) on his watch as finance director & sole director of WBA Group? So presumably he agreed it? As CEO why hasn't he called it in? What was that loan used for? ( I wonder....🤔) Why wasn't it repaid when JP sold?

BTW, it is a matter of public record that Peace, via his company Holdings, acquired just over 10% under his offer in July 2014 which was a few weeks before he and Holdings had the loan. That took him past the vital 75%


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on May 24, 2019, 07:48:04 PM
Disgruntled ex-employee.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 24, 2019, 07:49:07 PM
Disgruntled ex-employee.


Indeed, but it's clear Jenkins is not fit to run our football club, Lepkowski's twitter thread seems accurate enough, and doesn't libel anyone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 24, 2019, 07:51:03 PM

Indeed, but it's clear Jenkins is not fit to run our football club, Lepkowski's twitter thread seems accurate enough, and doesn't libel anyone.

I think, had there been any financial wrong doing, the clubs accountants would have been duty bound to have identified it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2019, 08:34:36 PM
The holding company had a loan from the football club of £3.7 million ish.

Interest on the loan means that the holding company now owes the football club £4.1 million and counting.

It's up to the football club to call in the loan (a loan that's getting more valuable year on year).

What would you do?.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 24, 2019, 08:36:14 PM
Call it in if things are as bad as the board claim. If things are not bad don't call it in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 24, 2019, 09:00:04 PM
The holding company had a loan from the football club of £3.7 million ish.

Interest on the loan means that the holding company now owes the football club £4.1 million and counting.

It's up to the football club to call in the loan (a loan that's getting more valuable year on year).

What would you do?.

This is the concerning part:

When one repayment is missed - as has happened - notice could be given demanding the whole loan back; a normal condition of repayment loans. But not this one? Strange.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 24, 2019, 09:22:13 PM

This is the concerning part:



When one repayment is missed - as has happened - notice could be given demanding the whole loan back; a normal condition of repayment loans. But not this one? Strange.

I think the operative words are “could be”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 24, 2019, 10:50:24 PM
Boss the company I am running for you could really do with that cash we loaned to your other company,

Not at the moment

But boss we really need that cash please

I told you not now

But, .........silence ........ok then boss, see you next year then !!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pureade1 on May 25, 2019, 12:15:38 AM
Lai out before we end up ala Bolton, Coventry etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bilston Dan on May 25, 2019, 01:00:28 AM
don't forget the players who were already on the books and the contracts they received, still gob smacked that HRK got a contract worth £50,000.00 plus a week.

If HRK is worth £50,000 a week then my left nut is definitely guaranteed at least 20k a week. One of the worst players I've seen play for us in he past 20 years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on May 25, 2019, 07:54:09 AM
The loan repayment will be of more value to us if/when our parachute payments stop. It's a considerable amount of cash when compared to a championship club's annual income, so will most likely be recalled when club really need it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 25, 2019, 08:24:33 AM
This is the concerning part:

When one repayment is missed - as has happened - notice could be given demanding the whole loan back; a normal condition of repayment loans. But not this one? Strange.

There's no mention of this in Matt Wilson's article in the E&S, the only mention I've seen of this is from Lepkowski's twitter account.
Not saying there's nothing in it, just depends which journo is better informed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on May 25, 2019, 08:58:20 AM
I genuinely hate the man.

1 - has no football knowledge
2- doesn’t really look like he knows how to run a club
3 - brought us as a business investment to improve his own portfolio in his own country, hoping that this club would just run itself

For me the moment that put the nail in the coffin was the home leg of the playoffs. Arguably our biggest game for years ( defiantly the biggest under his ownership) and he couldn’t be bothered to come watch.

I have zero faith in him and want him out my club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MICKYMEL on May 25, 2019, 09:17:53 AM
He’s not going to sell at a massive loss so I guess we are stuck with a non caring, non attending, owner who won’t put money into club.


Great
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MICKYMEL on May 25, 2019, 09:19:46 AM
Was a lot worse and doom and gloom at villa last year, then multi billionaires came out of nowhere to pay off debts and put money in. Hoping there’s more of them about soon for us!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 25, 2019, 09:22:54 AM
I would like to preface my comments on this matter with a few observations about Chris Lepkowski. Firstly I don't recall him raising these sort of issues in 2014 when he was paid by the Birmingham Mail to write about the club. If they stink now they stunk then and unlike me (sorry I missed this) it is his profession rather than a hobby albeit an all consuming one.

Obviously he was subsequently employed by the club and if I were as cynical as some I might suggest the two facts are not entirely unconnected. His employment at the club lasted about a year and plainly ended in some acrimony. Now he has become the cheerleader of a group of fans on twitter that in general do not believe the club does anything right pretty much ever. I do not want any truck with them because they are so cynical it sucks any joy out of supporting the club. I honestly don't know why they bother.

That said, this is wrong. I am not going to criticise Lai for this I am laying it fairly and squarely at Peace's and Jenkins door. I am absolutely certain under UK company law nobody did anything illegal. As the controlling shareholder providing the arrangement did not push the club into insolvency he probably has the legal right to do this and the board who are appointed by him are going to comply. However the board still has a duty to protect the financial position of the club and the rights of the minority shareholders.

Where the arrangement is ethically questionable is the loan was a means of leaveraging a greater share of a planned future sale and as such favoured Peace ahead of the minority shareholders. My understanding is that the loan was used by Peace to up his shareholding from 75% to the 88% he eventually sold to Lai. If the 88% was sold at the reported £200m then the 13% was worth nearly £30m or more than 7 times the loan and accrued interest. I would question how that protected the rights of the minority shareholders although it would be argued that Peace carried the risk of relegation and no sale.

This brings me on to the terms of the loan itself.

Firstly it is not completely unheard of for a commercial loan to accrue interest which is not be paid off in instalments but be settled at a future date or on demand. Part of the Glazers financing for the purchase of Man United was funded this way but because it attracted high rates of interest they were one of the key factors in Man United's ballooning debt. Given that in the 5 years since loan was taken out the debt has only risen from £3.7m to £4.1m the interest rate implied by this is a little over2% which is pretty generous.

Secondly the loan is repayable on demand which on the face of it is pretty brutal until one considers the relationship between the entity doing the demanding and the individual being asked to settle. Jenkins needed to insert a second clause that would trigger repayment at the point that Peace sold his stake in the club. It should not have passed onto the new owner.

The £4m might very well have been squandered by the new board along with a £40m cash balance but that is besides the point the loan should have been settled at the point of sale or the board should have demanded settlement (although this was unlikely to happen).

Finally this brings me onto the current situation. We are using bank finance to manage our cash flow which no doubt accrues intrest at a higher rate than 2%. It might be wise to call the loan in. However we are still in the same position in that the person that controls the club owes the club money so he is never going to demand payment.

The other point that is critical to understand Lai does not owe the club money personally because while he is the major shareholder of Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited of which he owns 55% and the remainder being owned by Palm 25% and other investors 20%. It does not have any other assets besides the 88% shareholding in the club. We in effect owe £4.1m to ourselves.

The other major bone of contention is why is Lai not putting more money into the club. There are lots of reasons. The first and most basic is that he has no intention of doing so never had and that is the end of the matter, with or without interference from the Chinese government. If you wanted to do that then you absolutely do not set up a corporate structure that looks like that and you buy out the minority shareholders. So you are at liberty to create more equity without consulting the other shareholders and without diluting their holdings within the club. It is beneficeit dictator model. Nobody really cares whether or not Lai attends the games like most Man City fans don't care that Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan does not provided that someone competent is running the club locally and the owner keeps signing the cheques. 

Jenkins got the terms of the loan wrong and Peace got the scent of profit in his nosterils and frankly after that everything needs to be said about this has been said.  All the other decisions flow from this basic dynamic. To change the ownership we need a buyer with deep pockets there is no sign of one nor is there likely to be.

Sorry but I honestly did not expect anything else.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on May 25, 2019, 10:01:23 AM
Thanks Stan , great summary.

I certainly feel that those at the top think we are are more  guilable than we are.  for most of us,  Its more a case of knowing what they're up to but can't do much about it and want to support our club regardless. Hopefully there are changes eventually which means they can make their money whilst producing a successful club/team. thats the best any football fan can hope for these days.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 25, 2019, 10:05:38 AM
"Where the arrangement is ethically questionable is the loan was a means of leveraging a greater share of a planned future sale and as such favoured Peace ahead of the minority shareholders. My understanding is that the loan was used by Peace to up his shareholding from 75% to the 88% he eventually sold to Lai. If the 88% was sold at the reported £200m then the 13% was worth nearly £30m or more than 7 times the loan and accrued interest. I would question how that protected the rights of the minority shareholders although it would be argued that Peace carried the risk of relegation and no sale."

So Peace got a loan out of the club to buy more shares in the club to increase his shareholding and therefore his ability to hand over complete control to Lai. 

Couple of questions given that my brain is enfeebled in the aftermath of last night's dinner party:

So was getting 88% so much more attractive to Lai than 75%?  Either would give him control.

Would having the extra 13% have gotten Peace more per share than the 75%?

Take your point about the sale netting more than the loan - smart. 

My father used to say that you either get a good steward who is a bit crooked or an honest steward who is incompetent.  And I thought him cynical.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 25, 2019, 10:13:17 AM
"Where the arrangement is ethically questionable is the loan was a means of leveraging a greater share of a planned future sale and as such favoured Peace ahead of the minority shareholders. My understanding is that the loan was used by Peace to up his shareholding from 75% to the 88% he eventually sold to Lai. If the 88% was sold at the reported £200m then the 13% was worth nearly £30m or more than 7 times the loan and accrued interest. I would question how that protected the rights of the minority shareholders although it would be argued that Peace carried the risk of relegation and no sale."

So Peace got a loan out of the club to buy more shares in the club to increase his shareholding and therefore his ability to hand over complete control to Lai. 

Couple of questions given that my brain is enfeebled in the aftermath of last night's dinner party:

So was getting 88% so much more attractive to Lai than 75%?  Either would give him control.

Would having the extra 13% have gotten Peace more per share than the 75%?


Take your point about the sale netting more than the loan - smart. 

My father used to say that you either get a good steward who is a bit crooked or an honest steward who is incompetent.  And I thought him cynical.

Members of this forum who are familiar with financial law & acquisitions would know the reasons, but, as I recall, Peace needed to obtain an ownership threshold of more than 80% in order to sell the business without the permission of the other shareholders.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 25, 2019, 10:20:28 AM
I would like to preface my comments on this matter with a few observations about Chris Lepkowski. Firstly I don't recall him raising these sort of issues in 2014 when he was paid by the Birmingham Mail to write about the club. If they stink now they stunk then and unlike me (sorry I missed this) it is his profession rather than a hobby albeit an all consuming one.

Obviously he was subsequently employed by the club and if I were as cynical as some I might suggest the two facts are not entirely unconnected. His employment at the club lasted about a year and plainly ended in some acrimony. Now he has become the cheerleader of a group of fans on twitter that in general do not believe the club does anything right pretty much ever. I do not want any truck with them because they are so cynical it sucks any joy out of supporting the club. I honestly don't know why they bother.

That said, this is wrong. I am not going to criticise Lai for this I am laying it fairly and squarely at Peace's and Jenkins door. I am absolutely certain under UK company law nobody did anything illegal. As the controlling shareholder providing the arrangement did not push the club into insolvency he probably has the legal right to do this and the board who are appointed by him are going to comply. However the board still has a duty to protect the financial position of the club and the rights of the minority shareholders.

Where the arrangement is ethically questionable is the loan was a means of leaveraging a greater share of a planned future sale and as such favoured Peace ahead of the minority shareholders. My understanding is that the loan was used by Peace to up his shareholding from 75% to the 88% he eventually sold to Lai. If the 88% was sold at the reported £200m then the 13% was worth nearly £30m or more than 7 times the loan and accrued interest. I would question how that protected the rights of the minority shareholders although it would be argued that Peace carried the risk of relegation and no sale.

This brings me on to the terms of the loan itself.

Firstly it is not completely unheard of for a commercial loan to accrue interest which is not be paid off in instalments but be settled at a future date or on demand. Part of the Glazers financing for the purchase of Man United was funded this way but because it attracted high rates of interest they were one of the key factors in Man United's ballooning debt. Given that in the 5 years since loan was taken out the debt has only risen from £3.7m to £4.1m the interest rate implied by this is a little over2% which is pretty generous.

Secondly the loan is repayable on demand which on the face of it is pretty brutal until one considers the relationship between the entity doing the demanding and the individual being asked to settle. Jenkins needed to insert a second clause that would trigger repayment at the point that Peace sold his stake in the club. It should not have passed onto the new owner.

The £4m might very well have been squandered by the new board along with a £40m cash balance but that is besides the point the loan should have been settled at the point of sale or the board should have demanded settlement (although this was unlikely to happen).

Finally this brings me onto the current situation. We are using bank finance to manage our cash flow which no doubt accrues intrest at a higher rate than 2%. It might be wise to call the loan in. However we are still in the same position in that the person that controls the club owes the club money so he is never going to demand payment.

The other point that is critical to understand Lai does not owe the club money personally because while he is the major shareholder of Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited of which he owns 55% and the remainder being owned by Palm 25% and other investors 20%. It does not have any other assets besides the 88% shareholding in the club. We in effect owe £4.1m to ourselves.

The other major bone of contention is why is Lai not putting more money into the club. There are lots of reasons. The first and most basic is that he has no intention of doing so never had and that is the end of the matter, with or without interference from the Chinese government. If you wanted to do that then you absolutely do not set up a corporate structure that looks like that and you buy out the minority shareholders. So you are at liberty to create more equity without consulting the other shareholders and without diluting their holdings within the club. It is beneficeit dictator model. Nobody really cares whether or not Lai attends the games like most Man City fans don't care that Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan does not provided that someone competent is running the club locally and the owner keeps signing the cheques. 

Jenkins got the terms of the loan wrong and Peace got the scent of profit in his nosterils and frankly after that everything needs to be said about this has been said.  All the other decisions flow from this basic dynamic. To change the ownership we need a buyer with deep pockets there is no sign of one nor is there likely to be.

Sorry but I honestly did not expect anything else.

We don’t “owe money to ourselves”.  The Shareholders and the Company owning the club are two distinct parties, even more so when 12% is owned by third parties.

I cannot see how this transaction protects the interests of the minority shareholders under company law. Having said that, the balance sheet has not been diminished.  A cash asset has been replaced with a loan asset for the same amount.  Only if the loan is never able to be reissued will the 12% shareholders suffer any damage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 25, 2019, 10:37:01 AM
We don’t “owe money to ourselves”.  The Shareholders and the Company owning the club are two distinct parties, even more so when 12% is owned by third parties.

I cannot see how this transaction protects the interests of the minority shareholders under company law. Having said that, the balance sheet has not been diminished.  A cash asset has been replaced with a loan asset for the same amount.  Only if the loan is never able to be reissued will the 12% shareholders suffer any damage.

In law that is completely correct. However in practice the entity that controls the creditor is also the debtor there is no other trigger to repay the debt other than the demand of the creditor which won't be forthcoming while debtor controls the creditor.

There is no technical loss to the minority shareholders unless the loan defaults which unless the club demands settlement won't happen.

 The bigger issue is that Peace and Jenkins were aware of the possibility of a lucrative trade sale and the former increased his share holding and therefore exploited his position as the major shareholder. The fact that the sale took 2 years to materialise is possibly the only defence.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on May 25, 2019, 11:26:39 AM
He’s not going to sell at a massive loss so I guess we are stuck with a non caring, non attending, owner who won’t put money into club.


Great

The longer it goes on the value of the club will drop.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on May 25, 2019, 01:16:07 PM
There's no mention of this in Matt Wilson's article in the E&S, the only mention I've seen of this is from Lepkowski's twitter account.
Not saying there's nothing in it, just depends which journo is better informed.

You also have to bare in mind that Matt Wilson works with the club on a daily basis so does not want to upset anyone, Chris Lepkowski has no reason to be concerned about that and despite claims that he is a disgruntled employee (none of us know why he left or the circumstances around it by the way) he will also have a good knowledge over what has gone on at the club especially around the time he was either working as a journo or working at the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 25, 2019, 01:50:35 PM
JP sold us to no investment GL for £175m and didn't even have the decency to pay back the £4m loan he took out of the club to increase his shareholding which made him an extra circa £25m by increasing his shareholding up to 88%, says a lot about the man. To make matters worse FOSUN had been looking at us but didn't want to pay a premium for a PL club and bought them lot for £75m instead. JP hoovering up as much money for himself as possible will define our club for decades. As a fan base we have every right to be furious about this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on May 25, 2019, 01:55:52 PM
I would imagine most football club owners look at JP in awe, as he must be the only owner of any football club to have actually made himself any money, never mind the fortune he made.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on May 26, 2019, 08:46:58 AM
I’m beginning to think Guochuan Lai is in fact an employee of Fosun.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on May 26, 2019, 09:40:06 AM
The holding company had a loan from the football club of £3.7 million ish.

Interest on the loan means that the holding company now owes the football club £4.1 million and counting.

It's up to the football club to call in the loan (a loan that's getting more valuable year on year).

What would you do?.
Surely if the football club is having to take out a loan assumedly at worse rates , just to get by then it has to call the loan in by not doing so I can only conclude there is no intention of loan being paid back without costly litigation
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 26, 2019, 10:48:37 AM
Surely if the football club is having to take out a loan assumedly at worse rates , just to get by then it has to call the loan in by not doing so I can only conclude there is no intention of loan being paid back without costly litigation

I got it wrong, it's not the holding company, it's WBA Group who owe the money to WBAFC, allegedly taken out by JP to increase his share holding to 88%.

This is the condition of the loan as defined in 2018 Accounts
Quote
Amounts owed by group undertakings to the Group are unsecured, payable on demand & accrue interest at the Bank of England base rate +5%

As I understand it, the overdraft facility was used only minimally in January, so I assume it was advantageous for the club not to recall the loan.

Not your point, I know, but I assume JP must have made GL aware of the loan, during discussions to sell the club. I also assume that GL would have been given the option to keep it in place or make it good at the point of sale. I would have to assume then, that there was a financial advantage for all parties to keep the loan in place.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 26, 2019, 01:23:31 PM
I would have to assume then, that there was a financial advantage for all parties to keep the loan in place.

Financially advantageous for JP and GL not for WBAFC. GL is never going to decide to call the loan in on himself so it will remain outstanding until kingdom come, and never get paid back. The club can show the loan as an asset on the accounts but physically doesn't have the money to spend or invest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 26, 2019, 01:46:00 PM
Financially advantageous for JP and GL not for WBAFC. GL is never going to decide to call the loan in on himself so it will remain outstanding until kingdom come, and never get paid back. The club can show the loan as an asset on the accounts but physically doesn't have the money to spend or invest.

Once the sale had taken place, I'm not sure how it could have advantaged JP.
I'm not particularly well versed in advanced financial affairs, but I can only assume that there must be some tax advantages.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mr Cynical on May 26, 2019, 02:54:36 PM
This just makes me really angry about Peace.  Everything that happened to WBA under his watch was just a side effect of him maximising the value of his asset.  That's what it was all about!

I also have a recollection that one of the companies in the Group holds some money that was transfered shortly before the sale in order to ensure that there were funds available should we want to pay the shareholders a dividend for the year that Peace sold.  Is that right?  Is it still just sitting there?

One other thing.  Everyone must remember the articles that Jenkins wrote about how poor we were and how badly we had been run?  (He was only implying this happened in the 18 months he wasn't there, but clearly he was being very generous to himself.)  Well in amongst that story from the E&S and Chris L's comments Matt Wilson said:

Matt Wilson
‏Verified account @mattwilson_star
Replying to @Worto

yes, although I believe they never actually went into that overdraft. It gave them wiggle room in the January window.


So, it appears that we didn't utilise the overdraft that he kicked up that major fuss about us needing.  It was obviously more important not to use it than to pay an actual manager to come in an push us over the line to promotion!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 26, 2019, 03:58:34 PM
English Football League: Clubs 'reliant on owners', says EFL chief

This clearly doesn’t apply to us

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48412747?ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=twitter
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 26, 2019, 04:35:42 PM
This smacks to me of the establishment trying to quell inter-club disputes by focussing upon the “value” of chairmen to the current in-sustainable model. Which if correct suggests that the wheels are getting wobbly if not falling off yet!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 27, 2019, 08:57:41 AM
"Fans not happy about the investment that is going into their club. Trust me, without them [the owners], they wouldn't have a club."

This is true of most EFL clubs. Basically we have a model which relies on rich people to subsidise football clubs (please don't use the word invest because that implies there is a potential financial return, generally there isn't). FFP is a fairly clumsy attempt to regulate this but it cannot overcome the basic problem that EFL football clubs need rich people to subsidise them to survive. When a club runs out of rich people prepared to subsidise it they go broke like Bolton. Eventually all clubs will run out of rich people prepared to subsidise them and they will all go broke.

However this is a very slow process and football will continue to eat money and fans will continue to demand more money to feed the beast until it runs out.

The reality is that there about 40 odd clubs that could be self sustaining in the Premier League maybe more only the real minnows like Accrington Forest Green and Morecombe might struggle but even that might not be impossible the impossibility is getting there. However only 20 are in the Premier League and 3 are kicked out every year leaving about 20 clubs with a taste for Champange but a Cider budget.

Without completely restructring the games finances and some fairly radical changes from the football authorities there is no chance football will get it's collective act together anytime soon, expect more of the same.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MICKYMEL on May 27, 2019, 08:50:29 PM
Until lai goes we will struggle.

Villa with Lerner, wolves with moxey.

Now both clubs have mega owners.

We need to get lucky and hope another one comes along otherwise we cannot compete
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 27, 2019, 09:19:40 PM
Until lai goes we will struggle.

Villa with Lerner, wolves with moxey.

Now both clubs have mega owners.

We need to get lucky and hope another one comes along otherwise we cannot compete

For clarity, Moxey wasn’t the owner, Steve Morgan was, but you make a valid point
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 27, 2019, 09:23:37 PM
Don't really want to get into it too much but a few pages back i asked if anyone remembered a poster called Steven or something like that who used to be on here and seemed accurate with his news of transfers etc but he left here but he is on Twitter still and claims Lai is a stubborn fool who will not sell. He also said Lai has no interest now we are not in the PL although we all know that. WIsh i had saved it, was a conversation between him and Matt Wilson from the E+S.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on May 27, 2019, 09:43:32 PM
Until lai goes we will struggle.

Villa with Lerner, wolves with moxey.

Now both clubs have mega owners.

We need to get lucky and hope another one comes along otherwise we cannot compete

BUT, at least Lerner and Morgan poured considerable cash into the clubs before stopping the finance.

Our clown hasn't put a bean into the Club! Typical.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 27, 2019, 09:47:19 PM
Must have lost £5m on the chinese wonderkid he paid for out his own pockets. Must have scared him off once he realised how clueless he is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 27, 2019, 10:49:37 PM
BUT, at least Lerner and Morgan poured considerable cash into the clubs before stopping the finance.

Our clown hasn't put a bean into the Club! Typical.

This is the problem with the benefactor model eventually they all stop because frankly they get tired of putting money in and getting the square route of nothing back, and the club is dependent on the money the fall is almost greater had there never been any money at all.

To justify the money Lerner put into Villa they would have had to qualify for Champions League football on a regular basis and even then he probably wouldn't have got a cent back on his "investment"

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on May 28, 2019, 07:57:17 AM
needs to sell up and cut his losses and if we dont get the right head coach in now, this very minute i can see us going down.
Them seals going up has certainly twisted the knife. As soon as we get an owner who shows interest then i might come back
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 28, 2019, 08:00:56 AM
Does Sheikh Mansour have another cousin?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on May 28, 2019, 08:07:41 AM
needs to sell up and cut his losses and if we dont get the right head coach in now, this very minute i can see us going down.

What are the current odds on relegation next season. Might be worth £20 to ease the pain?  :o ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on May 28, 2019, 08:07:57 AM
needs to sell up and cut his losses and if we dont get the right head coach in now, this very minute i can see us going down.
Them seals going up has certainly twisted the knife. As soon as we get an owner who shows interest then i might come back


Not being funny mate but I'm getting a bit sick of you going on about "not going" till this and "not going" till that. It's the club you are supposed to support not the owners. Up's and down's are part of football and for all the temporary "Success" the likes of Villa and Wolves are very much in the same boat as us - either trying to survive in the Premier League or trying to get back into it.

How about supporting the team?

No?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on May 28, 2019, 08:30:40 AM

Not being funny mate but I'm getting a bit sick of you going on about "not going" till this and "not going" till that. It's the club you are supposed to support not the owners. Up's and down's are part of football and for all the temporary "Success" the likes of Villa and Wolves are very much in the same boat as us - either trying to survive in the Premier League or trying to get back into it.

How about supporting the team?

No?

Totally agree. Yes we are frustrated but it does not affect my love of the club one iota.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on May 28, 2019, 08:35:30 AM

Not being funny mate but I'm getting a bit sick of you going on about "not going" till this and "not going" till that. It's the club you are supposed to support not the owners. Up's and down's are part of football and for all the temporary "Success" the likes of Villa and Wolves are very much in the same boat as us - either trying to survive in the Premier League or trying to get back into it.

How about supporting the team?

No?


couldnt give a too hoots what you think really. my predictions are normally correct. i will continue to follow the Albion from my armchair untill we see some leadership
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on May 28, 2019, 10:39:33 AM
Cut the personal stuff, getting past a joke with people jumping on others for not doing the same as them lately, whether thats going to games or not for example. People have a choice, respect their decision.

This is a place for people to moan, not moan, whatever.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 28, 2019, 01:12:05 PM
The whole thing just stinks of self interest and self gain to be honest.

It probably does not take a genius to work out why the loan was taken out in the first place - that individual has now sailed into the sunset on a bed of millions whilst we slum it out in the Championship. I don't blame Peace for our fall from grace as it was largely not under his premiership, but his last parting gift to us was John Williams who single handedly ruined the club.

My annoyance now, is the club constantly preach about not having a pot to **** in. They have thrown forward an earlier demand for season ticket monies, they have thrown out the kits prior to the season end to try and ascertain more monies from its supporters as our revenues streams to decrease.

The club throw out lines regarding redundancies to employees as a reason for not signing a striker who if given the service could take us back to the mega riches that is required by those at the top.

Meanwhile, the football club is owed £4million. That £4million could prevent the job losses, safeguard the futures of those who give a service to the club. Hell, it might even cover us for a successful summer recruitment. Or the appointment of a manager. Meanwhile, our faceless ownership whom posses millions continue to keep those essential funds away from the club.

Jenkins is here for one reason - and it is nothing to do with us. Cut costs & save money. And we'll suck it up as usual.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sing on our own on May 28, 2019, 01:46:23 PM
Don't really want to get into it too much but a few pages back i asked if anyone remembered a poster called Steven or something like that who used to be on here and seemed accurate with his news of transfers etc but he left here but he is on Twitter still and claims Lai is a stubborn fool who will not sell. He also said Lai has no interest now we are not in the PL although we all know that. WIsh i had saved it, was a conversation between him and Matt Wilson from the E+S.
I saw that thread as well, according to him (who I believe) Lai could have got his money back with a serious new owner who would have made us the wealthiest club in the midlands but he won’t sell. They are still interested apparently so fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on May 28, 2019, 02:25:06 PM
I saw that thread as well, according to him (who I believe) Lai could have got his money back with a serious new owner who would have made us the wealthiest club in the midlands but he won’t sell. They are still interested apparently so fingers crossed.

The only bit that puzzles me out of that is if Lai has no interest in us now we are not in the premier league and he has been offered his money back, why doesn't he just sell up and knock it on the head.

If that was me and I had no interest in the business, the foreseeable future of the business was uncertain, I didn't plan on putting any cash into getting the club back into the PL, then I would rip off the hands of another businessmen who was offering me my money back.

I have a feeling we are in for a lot worse over the next year or 2. Maybe it's time we as fans really started to let the owner know how we feel.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 28, 2019, 02:41:59 PM
I haven't seen the thread but there is simply no way someone has offered Lai £175m + to buy us while we're in this division.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on May 28, 2019, 02:52:04 PM
I haven't seen the thread but there is simply no way someone has offered Lai £175m + to buy us while we're in this division.

I would agree, current valuation must be more like £75m tops.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 28, 2019, 03:31:00 PM
This is quite interesting & might explain why Lai wants to hang on to us.

http://www.ejinsight.com/20190528-football-club-sponsors-from-china-an-enigma-wrapped-in-mystery/ (http://www.ejinsight.com/20190528-football-club-sponsors-from-china-an-enigma-wrapped-in-mystery/)

In anybody's language £150 to £200 million is a lot of money & I just can't see Lai (or the Chinese Government) putting that at risk, by not supporting a push for promotion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on May 28, 2019, 03:41:21 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/BaggieSteve26/status/1131874350586585090

This is the conversation in question?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 28, 2019, 03:48:31 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/BaggieSteve26/status/1131874350586585090 (https://mobile.twitter.com/BaggieSteve26/status/1131874350586585090)

This is the conversation in question?


The guy is delusional. £700 million?


Divide it by 10.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on May 28, 2019, 03:48:43 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/BaggieSteve26/status/1131874350586585090

This is the conversation in question?

The guy claims Lai was offered £700m only a few days ago - complete and utter bulls4it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on May 28, 2019, 03:59:37 PM

The guy is delusional. £700 million?


Divide it by 10.

700,000,000 Chinese Yuan equals 79,961,000.00 Pound sterling - sounds about right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 28, 2019, 04:10:56 PM
700,000,000 Chinese Yuan equals 79,961,000.00 Pound sterling - sounds about right.


If we give this any credence then he would have specified Chinese ¥.


To speculate further 1.3 billion Chinese ¥ is £148 million. We simply aren't worth that and it would still be a loss for Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on May 28, 2019, 04:13:39 PM

If we give this any credence then he would have specified Chinese ¥.


To speculate further 1.3 billion Chinese ¥ is £148 million. We simply aren't worth that and it would still be a loss for Lai.

I don't give it any credibility whatsoever to be honest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 28, 2019, 05:18:54 PM
Yes tbf to the poster Steven he says that what Lai wants and where the hell he got that figure from for a championship side is insane.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on May 28, 2019, 05:26:55 PM
Yes tbf to the poster Steven he says that what Lai wants and where the hell he got that figure from for a championship side is insane.

He also states the interested party offered £700 million which is obviously complete and utter rubbish.

On current valuations you could purchase 2 premier league teams just outside the top 6 for £700 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 28, 2019, 05:51:52 PM
He said thats what Lai wanted. Not what was offered.  BUt yes tosh either way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on May 28, 2019, 05:58:44 PM
He said thats what Lai wanted. Not what was offered.  BUt yes tosh either way.

No he said they offered £700 million but Lai wants £1.3 billion  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 28, 2019, 06:15:01 PM
In context:

Fosun allegedly paid £40 million for Wolves

The prospective buyers of Newcastle United are discussing a valuation of around £350 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 28, 2019, 06:18:41 PM
No he said they offered £700 million but Lai wants £1.3 billion  :o


MY bad but total tosh from Lai is what it still amounts too! :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on May 28, 2019, 06:26:14 PM

MY bad but total tosh from Lai is what it still amounts too! :D

Agreed, however the entire story is utter nonsense
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: aboing on May 28, 2019, 06:32:36 PM
my guess as a layman - he bought for 180ish million and we now worth 70ish million (relegatigation etc ) after that initial huge loss, he wont sell now. our next couple of years downgrade, wont even touch the initial loss? only problem is how much he screws us over, from now in :( till he sells
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 28, 2019, 06:40:54 PM
I suppose he can sell the best players we got and pocket the money and make i dunno 30-40m back that way and then sell up but that will still leave him around 60m down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 28, 2019, 07:09:10 PM
I suppose he can sell the best players we got and pocket the money and make i dunno 30-40m back that way and then sell up but that will still leave him around 60m down.

I’m sure it’s been stated before by other posters, who understand company law, that Lai isn’t able to pocket money as you suggest, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 28, 2019, 07:44:34 PM
In the nicest possible way i hope they are right!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 28, 2019, 08:02:10 PM
The longer we stay in this league or god for bid we drop down a division then clubs valuation will plummet. At the minute with Premier parachute money I'd say you would be lucky to get 60 million when that payment is no more then the most the club is worth is 30 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: superkev on May 28, 2019, 08:13:31 PM
Genuine info that Jeremy has offered Lai a way out by buying the club back circa £75m- £100m but it means loss of face in China so it wont happen same source also told me our Chief Executive is on £1m per year!!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NathWBA on May 28, 2019, 08:17:16 PM
Genuine info that Jeremy has offered Lai a way out by buying the club back circa £75m- £100m but it means loss of face in China so it wont happen same source also told me our Chief Executive is on £1m per year!!!!
wasn’t the highest paid director/executive listed in the accounts as earning about £200k ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 28, 2019, 08:18:02 PM
Genuine info that Jeremy has offered Lai a way out by buying the club back circa £75m- £100m but it means loss of face in China so it wont happen same source also told me our Chief Executive is on £1m per year!!!!

I’m not surprised by this development if it is true and better the devil you know...... etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 28, 2019, 08:29:45 PM
The chairman is on a token salary of 88k but Jenkins will be robbing us blind with his salary.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 28, 2019, 08:32:00 PM
No he said they offered £700 million but Lai wants £1.3 billion  :o

Aztech, I’ve read the twitter feed and I can’t find Steven or anybody else putting an actual figure on what Lai wants or the buyer was offering. Where has this £700m figure come from?

Here is the link: https://twitter.com/baggiesteve26/status/1131874350586585090?s=21
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 28, 2019, 08:34:43 PM
Aztech, I’ve read the twitter feed and I can’t find Steven or anybody else putting an actual figure on what Lai wants or the buyer was offering. Where has this £700m figure come from?

Here is the link: https://twitter.com/baggiesteve26/status/1131874350586585090?s=21

https://twitter.com/BaggieSteve26/status/1132298157998657536
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 28, 2019, 08:34:59 PM
wasn’t the highest paid director/executive listed in the accounts as earning about £200k ?

Yes

2018 Accounts

All Directors = £1.124 million

Highest paid director = £219.000

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03295063/filing-history (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03295063/filing-history)
Page 22
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 28, 2019, 08:35:27 PM
As the chap underneath says he thinks he means 700m in their currency which works out to 80m approx.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NathWBA on May 28, 2019, 08:43:19 PM
Yes

2018 Accounts

All Directors = £1.124 million

Highest paid director = £219.000

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03295063/filing-history (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03295063/filing-history)
Page 22
thought so, amazing what some people actually believe about the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on May 28, 2019, 09:11:52 PM
Genuine info that Jeremy has offered Lai a way out by buying the club back circa £75m- £100m but it means loss of face in China so it wont happen same source also told me our Chief Executive is on £1m per year!!!!

I never I thought I would say this but I would take him back over this idiot.

At least he knew what an actual football looked like.

If true, I have said for a while that this was his plan, after recommending the unemployed and inept Williams to run the club.

You'll have to excuse the next bit as have been sniffing a very large bag of glue, but imagine if it was his masterplan all along to fleece lai and then coming back with the extra money and actually giving something back to club he apparently supported and its fans and build a new Halford lane stand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on May 28, 2019, 09:18:59 PM
Genuine info that Jeremy has offered Lai a way out by buying the club back circa £75m- £100m but it means loss of face in China so it wont happen same source also told me our Chief Executive is on £1m per year!!!!

Another none starter in my opinion. Peace will never be seen again unless he secures the club well below market value.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on May 28, 2019, 09:24:04 PM
Genuine info that Jeremy has offered Lai a way out by buying the club back circa £75m- £100m but it means loss of face in China so it wont happen same source also told me our Chief Executive is on £1m per year!!!!






I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but I wish this was the case. I will hold my hands up and say I was one who was so excited on the 5th August 2016 thinking we had made it, a billionaire owner, I thought things were on the up. However it has been a total disaster from the start, although in his only interview he has ever done, Lai said he would not bankroll us and he’s certainly been true to his word.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 28, 2019, 09:32:13 PM





I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but I wish this was the case. I will hold my hands up and say I was one who was so excited on the 5th August 2016 thinking we had made it, a billionaire owner, I thought things were on the up. However it has been a total disaster from the start, although in his only interview he has ever done, Lai said he would not bankroll us and he’s certainly been true to his word.

Could you find this quote? Got to admit, I can't find anywhere Lai has said this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on May 28, 2019, 09:36:00 PM
Could you find this quote? Got to admit, I can't find anywhere Lai has said this.



I have to admit, I have just watched his only interview on YouTube, or most of it. It may have been in the first programme of the season after he bought us. I’m sure he said he was going to be a good owner who would not embark on a unsustainable spending spree.

I also recall central news being outside the gates that day with some bloke saying we could be as big as man city with this bloke at the helm!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on May 28, 2019, 09:41:05 PM
Part of me has always wondered if part of Peaces plan was to sell it for as much as possible, buy it back for as little as possible after it all went to pot, and then sell it for as much as possible again. But after the length of time he spent trying to sell it the first time, I don't think he'd do it again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 28, 2019, 09:46:53 PM


I have to admit, I have just watched his only interview on YouTube, or most of it. It may have been in the first programme of the season after he bought us. I’m sure he said he was going to be a good owner who would not embark on a unsustainable spending spree.

I also recall central news being outside the gates that day with some bloke saying we could be as big as man city with this bloke at the helm!!

Yes, He said he would not change the club's structure or it's ethos. (Just found the statement on the OS).
I cannot find anywhere a statement saying he would not put any further funding into the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on May 28, 2019, 10:20:14 PM
At 62 I doubt Peace would want to get into running a football club again.

In his final years here, he basically sounded quite cynical and tired about how the state of football was going - in particular saying how we weren't really wealthy enough to be a Premier League team and that we would eventually drop. I think he was well aware that he found his niche in getting the best out of a certain budget/formula during a period where scouting etc seemed less competitive.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on May 28, 2019, 10:34:34 PM
Would it be too far fetched to think lai went to jp again after relegation and this time he recommended Jenkins who is doing jp's bidding by hampering our prospects at every turn like giving DM the boot without a replacement lined up still and basically telling lai we are screwed making him panic and sell to peace for pennies in the pound.

You can just imagine the negotiations, "well what you paid £200m was for a Premier league club, but as you can see from what your countrymen paid for wolves a championship club is only worth between £30-40m."

I don't believe for a second that jp would buy us back for as much as £75-100m, way too much.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 29, 2019, 01:20:48 AM
There is no way on this Earth that JP would buy us back not even at a rock bottom price. He got out with a profit he can't hope to turn that trick again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 29, 2019, 06:42:15 AM
Yes

2018 Accounts

All Directors = £1.124 million

Highest paid director = £219.000

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03295063/filing-history (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03295063/filing-history)
Page 22

That doesn’t really tell us very much.  Jenkins wasn’t appointed until mid-February 2018, so only 3 1/2 months worth of his salary will have been paid in the accounts for the year ended 30th June 2018.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 29, 2019, 06:43:59 AM
There is no way on this Earth that JP would buy us back not even at a rock bottom price. He got out with a profit he can't hope to turn that trick again.

Agreed in respect of putting in his own money, but he could front a consortium using other investors’ money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 29, 2019, 06:51:30 AM
Agreed in respect of putting in his own money, but he could front a consortium using other investors’ money.

Would you seriously want him back in any format? Whilst he runs a tight ship you will know he has no real aspirations to spend any money and at the end of it he will once again ride of into the sunset at our expense......

I am afraid that we are stuck with our Chinese owner for the forseeable future. Whilst I am tending to agree with all of the negative thoughts in the direction our club is going, what doesn't make sense is the logic of buying us for circa £200m and watching your investment dwindle and not take action. I just don't get that. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 29, 2019, 07:01:51 AM
Would you seriously want him back in any format? Whilst he runs a tight ship you will know he has no real aspirations to spend any money and at the end of it he will once again ride of into the sunset at our expense......

I am afraid that we are stuck with our Chinese owner for the forseeable future. Whilst I am tending to agree with all of the negative thoughts in the direction our club is going, what doesn't make sense is the logic of buying us for circa £200m and watching your investment dwindle and not take action. I just don't get that.

Yes I would, but only as part of a consortium with deep pockets. I don’t believe that Peace himself would put in more than a small percentage of his own wealth and he knows that he doesn’t have enough wealth to be able to take us forward if we were to go back up. I could easily see him fronting and advising a consortium, enabling him to stay offshore for the 5 years that he needs to in order to avoid CGT on his original sale.

He knows the club inside out.  His tenure coincided with a long stay in the PL.  He just didn’t have the wealth to take us forward on his own (and still doesn’t - in terms of what is needed).  He certainly wasn’t perfect but made more good decisions than bad ones.  We’ve got massively backwards since the day he left, in terms of being a well-run club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 29, 2019, 07:24:24 AM
Yes I would, but only as part of a consortium with deep pockets. I don’t believe that Peace himself would put in more than a small percentage of his own wealth and he knows that he doesn’t have enough wealth to be able to take us forward if we were to go back up. I could easily see him fronting and advising a consortium, enabling him to stay offshore for the 5 years that he needs to in order to avoid CGT on his original sale.

He knows the club inside out.  His tenure coincided with a long stay in the PL.  He just didn’t have the wealth to take us forward on his own (and still doesn’t - in terms of what is needed).  He certainly wasn’t perfect but made more good decisions than bad ones.  We’ve got massively backwards since the day he left, in terms of being a well-run club.

Peace said he would only sell to someone who could take the club forward, Peace was instrumental in the appointment of Williams, and as it turned out Williams spent money like a lottery winner, and Lai has absolutely no intention of taking us forward as a club. So you could say that Mr Peace is responsible for our demise since he left. Lets face it, he sold to the first person who had the 'reddies'.....

I don't want him anywhere near our club again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 29, 2019, 07:54:15 AM
The original owners of Autonomy - an AI company  - are being sued for misrepresenting / exaggerating the value of the company when selling it to Hewlett \Packard in the states.   Â£200M for a medium size club in an unfashionable part (ie. not London or North West) of the country seems like exaggerating value to me.  Will Guochan Lai sue?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 29, 2019, 08:05:24 AM
No he said they offered £700 million but Lai wants £1.3 billion  :o

Both figures are clearly RMB not Sterling.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 29, 2019, 08:06:17 AM
The original owners of Autonomy - an AI company  - are being sued for misrepresenting / exaggerating the value of the company when selling it to Hewlett \Packard in the states.   Â£200M for a medium size club in an unfashionable part (ie. not London or North West) of the country seems like exaggerating value to me.  Will Guochan Lai sue?

I don't know about that, but what I do know is that if I were Chairman Lai I'd be playing reruns of HRK's goal at the Euros to Chinese football club owners on repeat  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 29, 2019, 08:09:01 AM
Peace said he would only sell to someone who could take the club forward, Peace was instrumental in the appointment of Williams, and as it turned out Williams spent money like a lottery winner, and Lai has absolutely no intention of taking us forward as a club. So you could say that Mr Peace is responsible for our demise since he left. Lets face it, he sold to the first person who had the 'reddies'.....

I don't want him anywhere near our club again.

I’m happy to agree to disagree.   I don’t agree with Lai’s lack of interest in the club, but I accept that it was said at the time that the club would continue to be run on a self-financing basis, and I am well aware of Chinese currency restrictions which has since prevented him from investing funds even if he chose to. I don’t think Peace anticipated this scenario at all.

Peace is a businessman. He took a deal which was a very good deal for him, but I also believe that he thought at the time that it was also a good deal for the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 29, 2019, 08:10:26 AM
The original owners of Autonomy - an AI company  - are being sued for misrepresenting / exaggerating the value of the company when selling it to Hewlett \Packard in the states.   Â£200M for a medium size club in an unfashionable part (ie. not London or North West) of the country seems like exaggerating value to me.  Will Guochan Lai sue?

Willing buyer, willing seller.  More fool Lai if he overpaid.  Nobody held a gun to his head.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 29, 2019, 11:22:40 AM
Vanity project that has seriously backfired, owner with little or no knowledge of running football club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on May 29, 2019, 11:30:38 AM
I’m happy to agree to disagree.   I don’t agree with Lai’s lack of interest in the club, but I accept that it was said at the time that the club would continue to be run on a self-financing basis, and I am well aware of Chinese currency restrictions which has since prevented him from investing funds even if he chose to. I don’t think Peace anticipated this scenario at all.

Peace is a businessman. He took a deal which was a very good deal for him, but I also believe that he thought at the time that it was also a good deal for the club.

I bet JP couldn't believe it when he found someone stupid enough to pay that sort of money. At that point he couldnt give a rats about WBAFC, it was all about his pockets being filled.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on May 29, 2019, 11:44:27 AM
I bet JP couldn't believe it when he found someone stupid enough to pay that sort of money. At that point he couldnt give a rats about WBAFC, it was all about his pockets being filled.

Money talks. I would take the money and run and support Wolves for life if I had to if it meant having that tidy sum.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on May 29, 2019, 11:46:19 AM
how much are we worth currently 40 million maybe. Peace could buy it back and sell again later. great way of him making money, rather him than Lai thats for sure
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 29, 2019, 11:50:58 AM
Willing buyer, willing seller.  More fool Lai if he overpaid.  Nobody held a gun to his head.

100% correct and I agree with you. Shows a distinct lack of judgement on Lai's part and begs the question if he is fit to be running the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 29, 2019, 11:52:11 AM
how much are we worth currently 40 million maybe. Peace could buy it back and sell again later. great way of him making money, rather him than Lai thats for sure

More like £60-70m currently (with no debt and with 2 parachute payments to come).

Peace could only buy it back for £40m if it was available for sale at £40m.  Why on earth would Lai take a loss of £160m?!

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 29, 2019, 12:14:35 PM
Willing buyer, willing seller.  More fool Lai if he overpaid.  Nobody held a gun to his head.

I certainly think he paid top dollar for us, but had he or his consortium had a forward plan in respect of the development and strengthening of our club to make it a strong contender for 7th in the Premier league, with aspirations to progress from there, then I think his money would be a good investment. No reason why we could not be in the same position as [for example] Newcastle, and have a look at how much they are talking about as a buy out.

However the die was cast on day 1 when he said that he would not be changing anything and we would continue as normal. In other words, clueless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on May 29, 2019, 12:19:00 PM
100% correct and I agree with you. Shows a distinct lack of judgement on Lai's part and begs the question if he is fit to be running the club
He bought for similar reasons many public spaces are being bought up around Birmingham by Chinese backers, infrastructure  and investment opportunities tied to HS2 and the gentrified clientele they expect will come with it. Owners could make a killing with their feet already in the door. That to me is why Fosun want Wolves so successful, not for Wolves themselves but to pull people from Birmingham to the city for investment a la the Manchester clubs. West Brom being such a poor area will sell itself when the time comes and the less wealthy Londoners need places to live.

I think this is why Chinese investment hasn’t flooded quite as far north yet, once the HS2 extension has been confirmed expect buyouts for the likes of Leeds, Huddersfield, the Sheffield’s and perhaps Bradford and Rotherham too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on May 29, 2019, 12:22:09 PM
He bought for similar reasons many public spaces are being bought up around Birmingham by Chinese backers, infrastructure  and investment opportunities tied to HS2 and the gentrified clientele they expect will come with it. Owners could make a killing with their feet already in the door. That to me is why Fosun want Wolves so successful, not for Wolves themselves but to pull people from Birmingham to the city for investment a la the Manchester clubs. West Brom being such a poor area will sell itself when the time comes and the less wealthy Londoners need places to live.

I think this is why Chinese investment hasn’t flooded quite as far north yet, once the HS2 extension has been confirmed expect buyouts for the likes of Leeds, Huddersfield, the Sheffield’s and perhaps Bradford and Rotherham too.

I posted a link to an article about this a few weeks ago. Mentioned it on Twitter and just got the usual replies of whats it got to do with us??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 29, 2019, 12:29:01 PM
UK’s Birmingham is stealing the hearts of Chinese property investors

Interesting times ahead for Brum and surrounding areas

Source: https://www.scmp.com/property/article/2159516/uks-birmingham-stealing-hearts-chinese-property-investors
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on May 29, 2019, 12:36:08 PM
https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/status/1118140607338352641


https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3006420/china-presses-interest-uks-high-speed-rail-project-high-level
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Nathan on May 29, 2019, 12:39:27 PM
Genuine info that Jeremy has offered Lai a way out by buying the club back circa £75m- £100m but it means loss of face in China so it wont happen same source also told me our Chief Executive is on £1m per year!!!!

I heard a similar rumour from a seemingly genuine source before the play off 1st leg at Villa Park. I heard though that it was likely to be a 20-25% stake in the club that JP was interested in buying back. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Jeremy has put forward this proposal or something similar.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on May 29, 2019, 12:44:53 PM
The original owners of Autonomy - an AI company  - are being sued for misrepresenting / exaggerating the value of the company when selling it to Hewlett \Packard in the states.   Â£200M for a medium size club in an unfashionable part (ie. not London or North West) of the country seems like exaggerating value to me.  Will Guochan Lai sue?

Totally different situation. I know about the civil case you are referring to and there are 2 people from automany being sued currently from what I read a few weeks ago, for over inflating a multitude of figures.

In our case lai would have seen our annual profits in the accounts and seen that he could have had those profits and in few years he would have recouped his capital investment.

The only way this could ever be like the automany case isid the profits were exaggerated and lai was told there was no relegation so the profits he was shown were guaranteed every year.

As much as I hate jp I don't think he can be done for this.

Like the £4.1m loan has shown, lai is just a very stupidly bad businessman who has borrowed cheap money and now is stuck with insufficient monies to service his debt.

If we don't go up by the end of the parachute payments, then I can see serious problems for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on May 29, 2019, 01:43:16 PM
https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/status/1118140607338352641


https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3006420/china-presses-interest-uks-high-speed-rail-project-high-level

Thank you for the links. I am now following Prof. Chadwick, he seems like an interesting guy to follow.

And apparently our MP's debating canceling HS2.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on June 01, 2019, 10:57:19 AM
Apparently he’s selling stocks in palm and planning to put money into the club this summer. I think this could be one last push to get promotion, would fit in with the wilder rumour.

Do you have any links to this story?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 01, 2019, 01:20:38 PM
Willing buyer, willing seller.  More fool Lai if he overpaid.  Nobody held a gun to his head.

This is the frightening thing. We assume Peace saw Lai coming and sold him a pup.
I said at the time the price Peace was asking was far far too high and we wouldn't be able to be sold again so easily. I think £60-£100m was a fair price for us, but Lai paid twice that much.
Now people assume Lai is a fool, but i don't think so, a fool doesn't become a billionaire before he is 40.
So if Lai paid way way over the odds for us and yet isn't bothered about the footballing side of the club, what made him pay such a huge sum for us? What attracted him?
How much land does WBA own anyone know?
As far as i am aware Lai is a developer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 01, 2019, 01:24:46 PM
This is the frightening thing. We assume Peace saw Lai coming and sold him a pup.
I said at the time the price Peace was asking was far far too high and we wouldn't be able to be sold again so easily. I think £60-£100m was a fair price for us, but Lai paid twice that much.
Now people assume Lai is a fool, but i don't think so, a fool doesn't become a billionaire before he is 40.
So if Lai paid way way over the odds for us and yet isn't bothered about the footballing side of the club, what made him pay such a huge sum for us? What attracted him?
How much land does WBA own anyone know?
As far as i am aware Lai is a developer.

Ah now THAT scares me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on June 01, 2019, 01:56:05 PM
He may be better known for running successful landscape and construction companies, but is was Yunyi Guolai (Shanghai) Sports Development that bought Albion I believe.

So, I consider it unlikely that, anytime soon, will we see hi-rise developments et al being built on land owned by the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on June 01, 2019, 02:08:04 PM
He may be better known for running successful landscape and construction companies, but is was Yunyi Guolai (Shanghai) Sports Development that bought Albion I believe.

So, I consider it unlikely that, anytime soon, will we see hi-rise developments et al being built on land owned by the club.

Plus and I'd have to research this, He hasn't got any uk landscaping contracts Its mainly Dubai and the middle East which how Peace found him
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 01, 2019, 02:09:31 PM
He may be better known for running successful landscape and construction companies, but is was Yunyi Guolai (Shanghai) Sports Development that bought Albion I believe.

So, I consider it unlikely that, anytime soon, will we see hi-rise developments et al being built on land owned by the club.

A football club doesn't necessarily grow in value, our's certainly won't, but land does. Land is a prime thing to invest in, once you have bought it you can lie back and wait for it's worth to increase.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 01, 2019, 02:13:20 PM
I could go even further and say you could buy a club and deliberately run it into the ground, until no one goes and it's value is only worth the land it sits on.
But i think that might be going a bit extreme.
Whatever, he paid a lot of money for us for a reason, and billionaires always have reasons.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 01, 2019, 02:17:38 PM
The silence from him is worrying too, no words of assurance of how he wants us in the prem, just orders to Jenkins to sell  off our best players, appoint cheap desperate manager material.
A few words of assurance from him would go a long way, but i don't think he wants us for footballing purposes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 01, 2019, 02:18:57 PM
A football club doesn't necessarily grow in value, our's certainly won't, but land does. Land is a prime thing to invest in, once you have bought it you can lie back and wait for it's worth to increase.

Surely it would have been better to buy a much cheaper club than ours if that was the game plan though?

Though I admit the silence - even quieter than usual - is alarming me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on June 01, 2019, 02:22:55 PM
A football club doesn't necessarily grow in value, our's certainly won't, but land does. Land is a prime thing to invest in, once you have bought it you can lie back and wait for it's worth to increase.

And therein lies one of our housing problems, land is too expensive and for a small island, the UK is land rich.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 01, 2019, 02:31:15 PM
Remember Wolves previous owner? Morgan was ok with them going down into League 1 as long as he built his Redrwo houses. Steve Bull had one.
Morgan also bought a lot of land in Wolverhampton.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on June 01, 2019, 02:39:10 PM
You may know better than I, but I'm struggling to think of one football league club where the owner has done what you allude to and that club is no longer in existence.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 01, 2019, 02:48:29 PM
The Bhattis came very close.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on June 01, 2019, 02:58:22 PM
The Bhattis came very close.

So, in 131 years of the football league existence, we've had one near miss, I rest my case
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 01, 2019, 11:46:27 PM
If we are in the Premier League when the next TV deal is done the club will be worth more than Lai paid for it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on June 02, 2019, 01:24:40 AM
If we are in the Premier League when the next TV deal is done the club will be worth more than Lai paid for it.
But it won’t be, will it? If we didn’t have pesky players, coaches, agents, etc., to pay, then maybe we’d be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 02, 2019, 02:00:12 AM
We would have gotten away with it too if hadn't been for those pesky players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 02, 2019, 08:51:31 AM
As Standaman just said on another thread, Sheik Mansour doesn’t attend Man City games, their fans aren’t up in arms.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on June 02, 2019, 10:40:26 AM
As Standaman just said on another thread, Sheik Mansour doesn’t attend Man City games, their fans aren’t up in arms.
[/u]
Sheik Mansour sends MONEY in lieu, Manchester City have just won a domestic TREBLE. Of course their fans aren't up in arms.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 18, 2019, 10:12:26 AM
I'd say club are desperate to sell players before Bilic can get in cheaper options, especially as owner has stated he can't even repay four million plus debt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 18, 2019, 10:44:00 AM
I'd say club are desperate to sell players before Bilic can get in cheaper options, especially as owner has stated he can't even repay four million plus debt.

When did the owner say that he couldn't repay the £4M debt?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Chipperfan on June 18, 2019, 10:48:11 AM
When did the owner say that he couldn't repay the £4M debt?

It’s in the E&S today. Claims Chinese government restrictions on foreign investments mean he can’t pay it back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on June 18, 2019, 10:49:52 AM
When did the owner say that he couldn't repay the £4M debt?

think he's referring to this:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/18/guochuan-lai-tells-west-brom-he-cant-settle-41m-debt-because-of-chinese-government-restrictions/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 18, 2019, 10:57:34 AM
think he's referring to this:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/18/guochuan-lai-tells-west-brom-he-cant-settle-41m-debt-because-of-chinese-government-restrictions/

It’s in the E&S today. Claims Chinese government restrictions on foreign investments mean he can’t pay it back.

cheers for that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 18, 2019, 11:11:39 AM
Well, JP certainly went out of his way to find us the right owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 18, 2019, 11:15:54 AM
Well, JP certainly went out of his way to find us the right owner.

He couldn't know that the Chinese government was going to restrict the amount of money being taken out of the country though could he? I don't really think you can blame that on Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 18, 2019, 11:17:42 AM
A complete non issue at the interest rate versus the overdraft rate. Makes a nice headline for the dingle and star though
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on June 18, 2019, 11:24:42 AM
The whole thing regarding this loan stinks.

Just read a couple of comments on the Express and Star

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/18/guochuan-lai-tells-west-brom-he-cant-settle-41m-debt-because-of-chinese-government-restrictions/

Good job I was sitting down when reading this. Part of me wanted to roll around on the floor laughing at the sheer brass neck and audacity of it. Another part wanted to hit the ceiling in fury.

Let's remind ourselves just how serious this is: Jeremy Peace in 2014 took a secret £3.7 million loan (now £4.1 million, with interest) from West Bromwich Albion Group (currently owned by 12% of us shareholders) to his solely owned company West Bromwich Albion Holdings. Shareholders were then offered £3,000 for each of their shares, which many accepted. It took Mr Peace to above 75% ownership of our club - enabling him to sell. He sold to Palm for approximately £20,000 a share two years later. Surely, he has not used the loan money to actually finance his majority purchase of the club? This would be illegal.

If that was not bad enough - and yes, it's as bad as it sounds - he then refused to pay back the debt, leaving it with the new "owners" who posses 88% of our club. This business of "accruing interest" is also nonsense. Not a single penny of interest has been paid. Can any of us think of a single loan which we've had for five years during which no interest is paid, either monthly, quarterly or annually?

So now Palm come up with this scam...that they are not allowed to pay back a debt because it is linked to a Chinese government directive. What utter nonsense. Mr Lai-Low and his operative in the UK, Mr Li-Lower, (not to mention another Chinese penny pincher, with the cosy nickname of Ken, who is based at the training ground, going through the small change) need to start delivering answers - and fast. The Chinese government is not ordering Mr Lai to avoid a legally due debt. We all want to know what - exactly - Mr Peace did with the cash. What a shower!

Remember: This whole business is not a result of anyone at West Bromwich Albion coming clean about the debt. It is down wholly to forensic work in to past accounts by one of our shareholders, top legal expert and Albion fanatic, Peter Wall - a man who is, quietly and determinedly, demanding answers to a series of key questions. This is an on-going scandal.


And is it true that Mark Jenkins was the Financial Director when the loan was taken out?

Usual pre transfer window PR spin machine is in full force I see...

Fact - Chinese outbound investment has historically fallen into three groups...Encouraged, Restricted and Prohibited. Outward cashflow to sports clubs went from 'Encouraged' to 'Restricted' last year to regulate large outflows. If the outflow is below a certain limit (dont recall the exact figure, but it's in the hundreds of millions) the transaction has to be recorded prior at a local level for approval, anything above has to be ratified and approved centrally by the Chinese government.

It may take a couple of months due to the red tape now in place, but it is completely legal to move funds out of China to facilitate ongoing servicing of initial investment.

Remember, investment is not Prohibited just restricted. I have seen working examples so this is not theory.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 18, 2019, 11:35:33 AM
Just stinks doesn't it.....

and some want Peace back :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Beefy on June 18, 2019, 11:53:41 AM
What a load of tosh
I want one of these loans ...

When the parachute payments have gone guys .......
WORRY !!!

Mattwilson@expressandstar
Owner Guochuan Lai has told #wba restrictions into foreign investment from the Chinese government are stopping him paying the £4.1m debt he inherited from Jeremy Peace https://t.co/rFpkTDbhfT
Surely the £4.1 million is classed as a debt owed and not a new investment?
Huge stink on Twitter,
This is what Lai claims yet financial investors on Twitter say it's not a new interest so there is no restriction to pay, it's a obligation to pay the debt !!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on June 18, 2019, 12:16:45 PM
£4.1m in football terms today is not a lot of potato.
What I would be interested to find out is did the transfer fee for Zhang come back to the club or did it go back in Lai's pocket?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 18, 2019, 12:27:13 PM
£4.1m in football terms today is not a lot of potato.
What I would be interested to find out is did the transfer fee for Zhang come back to the club or did it go back in Lai's pocket?

wasn't it said at the time that the money used for that transfer came from Lai's own money and not the club? If that is the case I'd imagine it wouldn't go to the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 18, 2019, 12:29:09 PM
The whole thing regarding this loan stinks.

Just read a couple of comments on the Express and Star

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/18/guochuan-lai-tells-west-brom-he-cant-settle-41m-debt-because-of-chinese-government-restrictions/

Good job I was sitting down when reading this. Part of me wanted to roll around on the floor laughing at the sheer brass neck and audacity of it. Another part wanted to hit the ceiling in fury.

Let's remind ourselves just how serious this is: Jeremy Peace in 2014 took a secret £3.7 million loan (now £4.1 million, with interest) from West Bromwich Albion Group (currently owned by 12% of us shareholders) to his solely owned company West Bromwich Albion Holdings. Shareholders were then offered £3,000 for each of their shares, which many accepted. It took Mr Peace to above 75% ownership of our club - enabling him to sell. He sold to Palm for approximately £20,000 a share two years later. Surely, he has not used the loan money to actually finance his majority purchase of the club? This would be illegal.

If that was not bad enough - and yes, it's as bad as it sounds - he then refused to pay back the debt, leaving it with the new "owners" who posses 88% of our club. This business of "accruing interest" is also nonsense. Not a single penny of interest has been paid. Can any of us think of a single loan which we've had for five years during which no interest is paid, either monthly, quarterly or annually?

So now Palm come up with this scam...that they are not allowed to pay back a debt because it is linked to a Chinese government directive. What utter nonsense. Mr Lai-Low and his operative in the UK, Mr Li-Lower, (not to mention another Chinese penny pincher, with the cosy nickname of Ken, who is based at the training ground, going through the small change) need to start delivering answers - and fast. The Chinese government is not ordering Mr Lai to avoid a legally due debt. We all want to know what - exactly - Mr Peace did with the cash. What a shower!

Remember: This whole business is not a result of anyone at West Bromwich Albion coming clean about the debt. It is down wholly to forensic work in to past accounts by one of our shareholders, top legal expert and Albion fanatic, Peter Wall - a man who is, quietly and determinedly, demanding answers to a series of key questions. This is an on-going scandal.


And is it true that Mark Jenkins was the Financial Director when the loan was taken out?

Usual pre transfer window PR spin machine is in full force I see...

Fact - Chinese outbound investment has historically fallen into three groups...Encouraged, Restricted and Prohibited. Outward cashflow to sports clubs went from 'Encouraged' to 'Restricted' last year to regulate large outflows. If the outflow is below a certain limit (dont recall the exact figure, but it's in the hundreds of millions) the transaction has to be recorded prior at a local level for approval, anything above has to be ratified and approved centrally by the Chinese government.

It may take a couple of months due to the red tape now in place, but it is completely legal to move funds out of China to facilitate ongoing servicing of initial investment.

Remember, investment is not Prohibited just restricted. I have seen working examples so this is not theory.


This is quite worrying and does nothing to give me confidence of Lai's plans for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on June 18, 2019, 12:35:10 PM
Surely he would known about this when he purchased the shares, why didn’t he settle it then.  Peace’s lawyers just interested in making sure he got his money is my guess.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 18, 2019, 12:48:57 PM
If true it still doesn't answer why Peace took out a secret loan to buy out the other shareholders.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 18, 2019, 01:22:43 PM
The whole thing regarding this loan stinks.

Just read a couple of comments on the Express and Star

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/18/guochuan-lai-tells-west-brom-he-cant-settle-41m-debt-because-of-chinese-government-restrictions/

Good job I was sitting down when reading this. Part of me wanted to roll around on the floor laughing at the sheer brass neck and audacity of it. Another part wanted to hit the ceiling in fury.

Let's remind ourselves just how serious this is: Jeremy Peace in 2014 took a secret £3.7 million loan (now £4.1 million, with interest) from West Bromwich Albion Group (currently owned by 12% of us shareholders) to his solely owned company West Bromwich Albion Holdings. Shareholders were then offered £3,000 for each of their shares, which many accepted. It took Mr Peace to above 75% ownership of our club - enabling him to sell. He sold to Palm for approximately £20,000 a share two years later. Surely, he has not used the loan money to actually finance his majority purchase of the club? This would be illegal.

If that was not bad enough - and yes, it's as bad as it sounds - he then refused to pay back the debt, leaving it with the new "owners" who posses 88% of our club. This business of "accruing interest" is also nonsense. Not a single penny of interest has been paid. Can any of us think of a single loan which we've had for five years during which no interest is paid, either monthly, quarterly or annually?

So now Palm come up with this scam...that they are not allowed to pay back a debt because it is linked to a Chinese government directive. What utter nonsense. Mr Lai-Low and his operative in the UK, Mr Li-Lower, (not to mention another Chinese penny pincher, with the cosy nickname of Ken, who is based at the training ground, going through the small change) need to start delivering answers - and fast. The Chinese government is not ordering Mr Lai to avoid a legally due debt. We all want to know what - exactly - Mr Peace did with the cash. What a shower!

Remember: This whole business is not a result of anyone at West Bromwich Albion coming clean about the debt. It is down wholly to forensic work in to past accounts by one of our shareholders, top legal expert and Albion fanatic, Peter Wall - a man who is, quietly and determinedly, demanding answers to a series of key questions. This is an on-going scandal.


And is it true that Mark Jenkins was the Financial Director when the loan was taken out?

Usual pre transfer window PR spin machine is in full force I see...

Fact - Chinese outbound investment has historically fallen into three groups...Encouraged, Restricted and Prohibited. Outward cashflow to sports clubs went from 'Encouraged' to 'Restricted' last year to regulate large outflows. If the outflow is below a certain limit (dont recall the exact figure, but it's in the hundreds of millions) the transaction has to be recorded prior at a local level for approval, anything above has to be ratified and approved centrally by the Chinese government.

It may take a couple of months due to the red tape now in place, but it is completely legal to move funds out of China to facilitate ongoing servicing of initial investment.

Remember, investment is not Prohibited just restricted. I have seen working examples so this is not theory.

excellent post, with regards to Ebenezer did he use illegal methods to increase his shares in club? And from now on I'm using your moniker with regards to owner Lai low still laughing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on June 18, 2019, 01:32:28 PM
excellent post, with regards to Ebenezer did he use illegal methods to increase his shares in club? And from now on I'm using your moniker with regards to owner Lai low still laughing

Except it would be against forum rules to use such a moniker, so I would advise against. Oldbury is quoting a comment on the E&S so I'll let him off :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 18, 2019, 01:39:58 PM
If Lai is saying he's not allowed to spend due to the Chinese government then what about Wolves, Athletico Madrid et al who have Chinese owners?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on June 18, 2019, 01:49:09 PM
If Lai is saying he's not allowed to spend due to the Chinese government then what about Wolves, Athletico Madrid et al who have Chinese owners?

If I'm right, the Wolves and Atletico owners have money sources in Europe (or at least not held in China), from what I gather Mr Lai's money is all in China hence the alleged 'complications.'
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 18, 2019, 01:49:24 PM
If true it still doesn't answer why Peace took out a secret loan to buy out the other shareholders.

The cynic in me tells me that he either could not afford it/or did not want to put his own money in, so taking out this secret loan to buy shares using borrowed money against the club was always part of the big plan.

Lai really has had his pants pulled down big time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on June 18, 2019, 01:53:00 PM
Didn’t the Glazer’s buy Manchester United in the same way via loans from the club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 18, 2019, 02:09:31 PM
Didn’t the Glazer’s buy Manchester United in the same way via loans from the club?

It was a similar set up from memory, but I think the difference is that the debt is paid and the Glazers continue to be rather generous with the transfer fees.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on June 18, 2019, 04:01:17 PM
The cynic in me tells me that he either could not afford it/or did not want to put his own money in, so taking out this secret loan to buy shares using borrowed money against the club was always part of the big plan.

Lai really has had his pants pulled down big time.

I am very dubious about him having his pants pulled down. There was a reason he wanted to buy us and pay above the odds for us. We cost more than Wolves, Villa and Blues put together, yes we were premier league but a club of our size wasn't worth what he paid for us.
Billionaires rarely make mistakes in big business ventures, they have solicitors and accountants going over the detail again and again. He knew what he was getting.
Since he has bought the club he has shown very little interest in it.
So what was his reason to spend such a huge sum on something he isn't interested in? That is what worries me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on June 18, 2019, 04:04:21 PM
Inter company loans are quite common and usually are payable on demand.

I don't know if the Board (what's the point as JP would have sacked any dissenters) agreed on it, but JP should have paid it back.

Does it surprise me he did it? No, as I think JP only ever cared about himself and out of his many ventures (you'll be surprised how many pies he's got his fingers if you search his directorships) we were the one that laid the golden egg and I rue the day Thompson brought him in.

He came in forced Thompson out and systematically bought the shares of small shareholders, with scheme after scheme.

I hate the bloke, but I don't think he has done anything illegal as he's taken the loan and it's not secret or anything, it's in the company house records.

This is points Lai appointing a monkey to do due diligence for him, as any decent Accountant/Lawyer would have seen this and highlighted it to him.

As suspected, OldburyWBA post confirms what I have said for ages that if Lai had money he could get it out of China.

I only hope behind the scenes he has decided to sell up and is looking for better buyers than him for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 18, 2019, 07:19:34 PM
The excellent post from Oldbury at 12:29pm sums this up.

Jeremy Peace is a complete *******. In secret his took out a loan on the clubs expense to increase his own shareholding and profit upon sale. The club have never acknowledged the loan until outed by an external shareholder and fan who did some digging.

Lai is using the smokescreen of Chinese investment rules to refuse to pay back a loan he agreed to inherit. Repaying a loan isn't investment, it's payment of a legally due debt, secondly investment is not prohibited, only restricted, i.e. has to be signed off by the local Chinese state government or if at an astronomical sum approved by the central Chinese government. The club accounts state that the debt is repayable on demand. The debt has been demanded and the owner has refused to pay it! The owner is therefore in default. Catch-22 has now occurred due to the conflict of interest and the club has received no income. A bank is not going to loan against a debt that the debtor has defaulted on.

This is a shameful episode and reinforces the point that:

1) JP sold us for his own gain not to further the clubs interest as per the misleading PR at the time (else he would have obtained legally binding assurances upon future investment).

2) JP leveraged the clubs assets in a secret loan to increase his shareholding, control, and profit.

3) Lai lacks the means or alternatively the intent or both the means and intent to invest in the club, not willing to even pay back a relatively small loan. £4m would go a long way to covering Gayle's wage for two years.

As a fanbase we have been completely shafted and have no say at all over the ownership that will define us I fear for decades.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 18, 2019, 08:08:59 PM
The excellent post from Oldbury at 12:29pm sums this up.

Jeremy Peace is a complete *******. In secret his took out a loan on the clubs expense to increase his own shareholding and profit upon sale. The club have never acknowledged the loan until outed by an external shareholder and fan who did some digging.

Lai is using the smokescreen of Chinese investment rules to refuse to pay back a loan he agreed to inherit. Repaying a loan isn't investment, it's payment of a legally due debt, secondly investment is not prohibited, only restricted, i.e. has to be signed off by the local Chinese state government or if at an astronomical sum approved by the central Chinese government. The club accounts state that the debt is repayable on demand. The debt has been demanded and the owner has refused to pay it! The owner is therefore in default. Catch-22 has now occurred due to the conflict of interest and the club has received no income. A bank is not going to loan against a debt that the debtor has defaulted on.

This is a shameful episode and reinforces the point that:

1) JP sold us for his own gain not to further the clubs interest as per the misleading PR at the time (else he would have obtained legally binding assurances upon future investment).

2) JP leveraged the clubs assets in a secret loan to increase his shareholding, control, and profit.

3) Lai lacks the means or alternatively the intent or both the means and intent to invest in the club, not willing to even pay back a relatively small loan. £4m would go a long way to covering Gayle's wage for two years.

As a fanbase we have been completely shafted and have no say at all over the ownership that will define us I fear for decades.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the repayment of the debt has been demanded. I understand that no such demand has been made by the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 18, 2019, 10:31:24 PM
Effectively he'd be demanding he pay the loan to himself. Mind boggles. Ultimate storm in a teacup by journo's who've got a week to wait before we do anything because Slav is on his jollies.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 19, 2019, 12:09:50 AM
There is no evidence whatsoever that the repayment of the debt has been demanded. I understand that no such demand has been made by the club.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/18/guochuan-lai-tells-west-brom-he-cant-settle-41m-debt-because-of-chinese-government-restrictions/

The club journalist at E&S is categorical. Don’t tell me you have better sources than he does?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on June 19, 2019, 06:53:42 AM
I have always had the opinion that JP was only ever looking after himself rather than the club and never believed the spin coming from him. This is yet more evidence that questions whether he ever used his own money for investing in the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 19, 2019, 08:18:06 AM
I have always had the opinion that JP was only ever looking after himself rather than the club and never believed the spin coming from him. This is yet more evidence that questions whether he ever used his own money for investing in the club.

A shrewd businessman never uses his own money for anything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on June 19, 2019, 08:21:14 AM
Unless JP did something illegal its time to move on and look at Jenkins and Lai.  Jenkins was Peace's FD and currently Lai's CEO. Lai should've done proper due dilligence and should communicate.

I have very little trust or confidence in Lai or Jenkins tbf

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on June 19, 2019, 09:58:40 AM
It's no different to taking a loan out against a house to purchase a house, as dodgy as it seems.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on June 19, 2019, 05:11:58 PM
So why doesn't Mr.Lai  start up another business in the UK?
Then perhaps money could flow between them?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 19, 2019, 07:13:28 PM
So why doesn't Mr.Lai  start up another business in the UK?
Then perhaps money could flow between them?

He already had businesses in Hong Kong and outside China, nothing to stop him paying back the loan except himself, he doesn't want to do it and may not have the cash - this is a guy who couldn't muster the funds to buy us himself. He invested 66% of the takeover cash with the unidentified investors in that takeover company chipping in with the rest. Have a look at their website. No investments since buying us and the website looks like it was built in late 80s. Doesn't exactly smell money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on June 19, 2019, 08:18:09 PM
Last time I looked HK is in China.
Where else outside China does he have business apart from us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 19, 2019, 08:44:31 PM
Last time I looked HK is in China.
Where else outside China does he have business apart from us.

No it isn’t.  It’s part of the Special Economic Region but won’t be part of China until 2047.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Tank on June 19, 2019, 09:08:08 PM
Unless JP did something illegal its time to move on and look at Jenkins and Lai.  Jenkins was Peace's FD and currently Lai's CEO. Lai should've done proper due dilligence and should communicate.

I have very little trust or confidence in Lai or Jenkins tbf
Most certainly nothing illegal.  Just plain immoral.   Most true fans would have put a great percentage of any "profit" back in to the club. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 19, 2019, 09:33:37 PM
Most certainly nothing illegal.  Just plain immoral.   Most true fans would have put a great percentage of any "profit" back in to the club.


Just don't think this is true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on June 20, 2019, 11:37:48 AM
Not sure if this has been seen or means anything, its just at the bottom of the Express and Satr interview with John Wile

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/20/john-wile-slaven-bilic-is-sort-of-man-id-want-to-play-for/

Meanwhile, around 11.5 million shares have been sold from Palm eco-town development company and speculation in China claims Albion owner Guochuan Lai is the only person with a holding large enough to sell that number.

On current valuation that amount of shares is worth roughly £5.2m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on June 20, 2019, 12:03:05 PM
Not sure if this has been seen or means anything, its just at the bottom of the Express and Satr interview with John Wile

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/20/john-wile-slaven-bilic-is-sort-of-man-id-want-to-play-for/

Meanwhile, around 11.5 million shares have been sold from Palm eco-town development company and speculation in China claims Albion owner Guochuan Lai is the only person with a holding large enough to sell that number.

On current valuation that amount of shares is worth roughly £5.2m.


Saw Matt Wilson tweet about it around an hour ago.

Could it be him clearing some funds to pay off the 'debt' he owes the club when he's able to? Or could it just be a case of him fancying a new mansion in China.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on June 20, 2019, 04:33:59 PM
Not sure if this has been seen or means anything, its just at the bottom of the Express and Satr interview with John Wile

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/20/john-wile-slaven-bilic-is-sort-of-man-id-want-to-play-for/

Meanwhile, around 11.5 million shares have been sold from Palm eco-town development company and speculation in China claims Albion owner Guochuan Lai is the only person with a holding large enough to sell that number.

On current valuation that amount of shares is worth roughly £5.2m.


Could be a possible he needs new outside investment which isn't a great sign for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 20, 2019, 04:48:39 PM
Matt Wilson confirmed just after his original tweet that Lai IS NOT/HASN'T sold any shares in any company. Someone got their wires crossed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on August 08, 2019, 07:27:46 PM
How about a bit of credit for Mr Lai for opening the purse strings? Everyone is quick enough to slate but very slow to praise!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 08, 2019, 07:30:22 PM
How about a bit of credit for Mr Lai for opening the purse strings? Everyone is quick enough to slate but very slow to praise!


We're in profit on the window mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 08, 2019, 07:57:16 PM
How about a bit of credit for Mr Lai for opening the purse strings? Everyone is quick enough to slate but very slow to praise!
hasn't put his hand in his pocket since Ebenezer mugged him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on August 08, 2019, 08:09:55 PM

We're in profit on the window mate.

He didn’t need to spend a penny though did he? He chose to.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adder on August 08, 2019, 08:15:34 PM
hasn't put his hand in his pocket since Ebenezer mugged him.
Why should he ? If we are now in profit on the window dealings then good. We have no actual reason to suspect that that money won't go into the football club coffers in some form.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 08, 2019, 09:57:33 PM
Although I have knocked him, I am willing to give him the benefit of doubt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on August 09, 2019, 07:36:47 AM
A good and long read but unfortunately need to be a subscriber to read it all  :(

https://theathletic.com/1122548/2019/08/09/bad-luck-bad-results-and-relegation-left-west-broms-chinese-owners-unable-to-fulfil-their-ambitions/

Perhaps someone with a subscription could cut and paste it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 09, 2019, 08:23:07 AM
In short Lai cannot sell but he cannot invest. We have to live within our means. Promotion helps and might even give Lai a way out however until then we are stuck with him and he is stuck with us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 09, 2019, 03:22:22 PM
He's the owner, full stop, but I remain positive as nothing is forever, as time is the remedy for most, if not all, things
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on August 09, 2019, 09:56:35 PM
Just read the article. Really is fascinating how Lai has ended up in this situation. Lots of ‘losing face’ in China if he sells up for a massive loss from both a personal point of view and also from the Government
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: jimmyj on August 09, 2019, 11:11:29 PM
It was the summer of 2015 when a Chinese sporting arms race reached West Bromwich Albion.

Four years, one aborted takeover, one completed deal and a relegation later, the Baggies find themselves stranded in the fallout of China’s burst football spending bubble in a state of limbo they so nearly avoided.

Little is known, even among club staff, of Guochuan Lai, the enigmatic ‘new town’ tycoon who bought the club in 2016 with grand plans to exploit the purchase at home.

But there seems no doubt that running Albion has not panned out how Lai envisaged when he clinched a deal to acquire Jeremy Peace’s 88 percent stake.

The active encouragement from Chinese president Xi Jinping for the country’s ambitious businessmen to invest in European football has given way to clear new rules preventing further spending.

Experts claim it leaves Lai and Albion stuck, unable to move forwards, unable to escape.

“He’s stuck between a rock and a hard place,” said Simon Chadwick, professor of sports enterprise at the University of Salford and a leading authority on Chinese investment in sport.

“It’s not worked out for him in the way he would have wanted it to and because of controls on currency movements from China to overseas territories, he hasn’t been able to invest in the club and he can’t take it forward in the way he would want to.

“At the same time he probably overpaid for it so he can’t find a buyer and he’s stuck.

“It’s a case of no way forward, no way back and I feel sorry for the guy.”

It was all so different in August 2016 when Lai purchased Albion from Peace; both men benefiting from the collapse of a takeover bid 12 months earlier.

Zhonghe Capital, a Chinese investment firm, had agreed to pay Peace around £150 million for his controlling interest, only for the choppy waters of the Chinese economy to wash the deal onto the rocks.

Zhonghe had been the first of several interested buyers to meet with Peace’s advisors, eventually proving the most credible and becoming the preferred buyers.

A deal was agreed and a sizeable portion of the purchase money was deposited with Zhonghe’s lawyers ahead of completion, only for a financial crash to hit.

In June and early-July the Shanghai stock exchange dropped in value by around 30 percent, the Chinese government clamped down on overseas spending in a bid to halt the losses and Zhonghe were unable to get the balance of the purchase price out of the country.

Peace was unconvinced that the impasse could be broken so, with the 2015-16 season looming, he called off the sale. Burned by one failed deal, he engaged London-based financial consultants Smith Square Partners to seek new potential buyers and vet them thoroughly to avoid further frustration.

Peace moved to Jersey, determined to find a buyer for the club he had established in the Premier League, but when another Chinese group made contact early in 2016, he was unsure at first.

By now, though, a lucrative new overseas television deal had convinced him Albion were worth an extra £50 million, and the former city stockbroker was eventually persuaded that this new consortium were serious.

The approach came from Yunyi Investment but seasoned negotiators reported the structure of the deal was unlike anything they had seen before. Proof of funds came from several different firms offering a portion of the asking price with Lai emerging as the biggest single investor.

Yunyi explained the plan was for smaller investors to eventually sell their stake to Lai’s companies, making him the owner of 88 percent of the club.

Peace was eventually convinced that the offer was genuine and credible and, over a series of meetings at The Grosvenor Hotel and the London headquarters of Albion’s solicitors, a deal was agreed for the Lai-backed consortium to take charge.

And Peace, it is understood, attempted one final shrewd move before leaving his role as chairman after 14 years.

The deal to sell was agreed on June 24, 2016 as Britain was digesting the result of the previous day’s referendum on European Union membership.

Peace had long been concerned about the possible effects of Brexit on the pound and had requested payment in US dollars.

His wish could not be met due to the complexities of the deal and, with the value of sterling subsequently dropping amid political uncertainty, those involved estimate he missed out on several million pounds as a result. Peace had his deal and Lai had his club, even if his plans for it were not immediately clear to rank-and-file supporters.

“West Brom were the only club outside of the big three or four that were consistently making money,” said a source close to the deal.

“They were the only smaller team in the Premier League that were consistently making money and that’s why a lot of people had a look.

“That was entirely due to how frugal Jeremy Peace was and the fact that he and Mark Jenkins, the chief executive, ran the club so efficiently.

“That was the main rationale, it was profitable and they felt it was affordable.

“There was an arms-race going on in China at the time and they were trying to buy up as many assets as they could, particularly football-related assets.”

Lai was one of many wealthy Chinese figures to heed Xi’s clarion call and move himself into the European football market.

The belief among many Chinese football experts was that quenching the president’s thirst for overseas sporting investment would position businessmen favourably for opportunities at home, although we don’t know for sure that was Lai’s motivation.

Lai unveiled plans for a network of eco-towns, complete with Albion and Premier League-branded sports academies, tapping into the government’s dual ambitions of football expansion and cleaner living.

The vision, which has never been realised, seemed fanciful to many Baggies supporters, but not entirely implausible to those familiar with China.

“I can imagine a link to the Premier League and, when it comes to growth in China, they do harness some fairly random ideas that you and I would just expect not to work at all,” said Dr Rob Wilson, a football finance expert at Sheffield Hallam University.

“I can imagine how the newer broadcasting deals would help support the development of those towns and attract people to live in them.

“Whether West Brom has a sufficient allure to them is another question, but that’s because of how we understand that club.

“As far as the Chinese population was concerned they were a Premier League club, and the Premier League is this great thing that embodies everything that is great about football so conceivably you could see that working to a point.”

Chadwick added: “Something that’s massive on the Chinese policy agenda right now is to improve environmental standards.

“There are more solar panels in China than anywhere else in the world, so there’s a huge drive there to improve air quality, to improve the quality of living and so on and so forth.

“So I think Lai was trying to work with the football and environmental agendas, but real estate is always a very interesting part of Chinese economic activity and a lot of previous investors in football such as the Evergrande company have used their investment in football to get property development contracts from the government.

“Whenever I go to China nobody is talking about environmental towns.

“People do talk about environmental concerns – the environmental issues are real and tangible but as far as West Brom-branded environmental towns that are funded in conjunction with football, you just don’t see that.

“I suspect Lai was being speculative, and I can understand why because it wasn’t a wild idea.

“There was some consistency and coherence to his thinking but I just think he took a flyer that hasn’t really worked out for him so far.”

If Lai had ambitions to use his role at Albion to his advantage in China, it was not long before events in England began to conspire against him.

Within months of the takeover, the enthusiasm for European football investment within the Chinese government began to wain. And, as the landscape in China changed, just two wins came in the first 11 Premier League games of the 2016-17 season and, while a mid-season upturn brought an impressive, 10th-place finish, Tony Pulis’s men ended the campaign with a winless sequence of nine matches.

Lai and his new lieutenants, chairman John Williams and chief executive Martin Goodman, handed Pulis a new contract in the summer of 2017 despite many supporters and players wanting him out.

By November, Pulis had been sacked and by February 2018 Williams and Goodman had been jettisoned too.

Jenkins, Peace’s trusted right-hand man, was reinstated as CEO but the plunge towards the Championship was too steep to be halted and a chaotic spell under Alan Pardew – in which only three league matches were won and a bonding trip to Barcelona went horribly wrong – sealed Albion’s fate.

Lai found himself with a reality of what would have been his worst nightmare – a football club without the kudos of Premier League status to command respect at home.

He had Jenkins’ experience and prudence back at the helm but not the vision of Peace.

“Jeremy always was the quintessential executive chairman, very hands on with everything, and Mark was able to execute things,” said one source.

“But it was all about Jeremy. He was the strategist who came up with all of the concepts.”

West Brom looked east for direction but found a chairman who lacked the knowledge to help the club strategically and the ability to back it financially.

A £3.7 million loan, made by the club to parent company WBA Holdings under Peace’s stewardship and inherited by Lai under the terms of the takeover, remains an open sore for smaller shareholders, who own the 12 percent of the club not purchased by Lai.

The debt now stands at £4.1 million with interest continuing to accrue, but the new landscape for Chinese football investments means there is unlikely to be any immediate hope of Lai repaying, much less producing additional funds to help Albion return to the top flight as their Premier League parachute payments begin to shrink.

“Everything has changed in China,” the same source told The Athletic.

“At the time there was that arms race for people to come in and get as many sporting assets as they could.

“There was guidance from the very top. It was China putting their stamp internationally and people seen to be doing this would stand to benefit from various things domestically.

“You would be in line for various different contracts. It was a status symbol.

“That went full circle. I still read the odd article and people say there are Chinese investors interested in this or that and it’s complete bull.

“Those kind of acquisitions can’t happen anymore. They have been outlawed.

“At the time of this deal it was ‘go and do as much as you want’, now it’s very much ‘we don’t want people to be investing in these clubs’.”

Nor is Lai expected by informed observers to sell his stake in the immediate future.

Promotion this season under Slaven Bilic would solve many of the problems by securing a top-flight revenue stream.

Falling short, however, would lead to more budget cuts next season under an owner with no obvious way out and the spectre of tough government action if he suffers the indignity of selling his shares at a loss.

“Chinese consumers like status and prestige, you don’t invest in failure, and if you’re seen to invest in failure then you lose face,” said Chadwick.

“We all know what face is, but face in Chinese society is much more significant than in British society, so if you’re seen to publicly lose face it reflects really badly on you, your status and your reputation and on your family and friends.

“I think he needs to sell it at a profit for two reasons, firstly because if he doesn’t he will lose face – even if he can sell it for £10 million than he bought it he would save face and be happy.

“But secondly, if he sold at a loss it would imply a net outflow of currency from China, so he will have taken more money out of China than he’s brought in and the Chinese government would not be happy with that.

“Unless West Bromwich Albion get promoted this season he’s going to really struggle unless he can find maybe American investors, or maybe a joint venture with African, South American or Russian investors.

“The only other way out of this for him is if he can somehow demonstrate that his investment in West Bromwich Albion has enabled him to win an infrastructure contract in the UK.

“Potentially his only way out is to link it to other property of infrastructure developments, maybe HS2, and that would then be basis on which he could justify his investment and the Chinese government would agree to release some funds that he could spend on the club.

“He will have lost face because Albion were relegated so now he’s in a really difficult position in the sense that he’s paid a lot of money for something and engaged in a speculative investment that hasn’t paid off.

“It hasn’t paid in terms of environmental towns and property, but also in terms of the revenues and status you would derive from being the owner of a Premier League club.

“So he’s stuck with this asset.”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: divinewind on September 24, 2019, 02:11:03 PM
Isn't it this month his financial restrictions are relaxed?
The silence is deafening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 24, 2019, 04:33:47 PM
I heard an totally unsubstantiated rumour that at his first game at the Hawthorns he asked the bloke next to him what the round thing was that was being kicked around by the players.

This guy has no money to throw at us. Imo he gambled and failed and can now he hide behind FFP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on September 24, 2019, 06:00:44 PM
I heard an totally unsubstantiated rumour that at his first game at the Hawthorns he asked the bloke next to him what the round thing was that was being kicked around by the players.

This guy has no money to throw at us. Imo he gambled and failed and can now he hide behind FFP.

What did he say Berahino?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 24, 2019, 11:59:40 PM
Pretty much confirms what has been known for a while. Lai is not going to subsidise the club, he paid too much for it and his plans to strengthen his Chinese business interests on the back of it have largely failed. The problem is nobody is going to pay what he paid for the club even if we manage to return to the Premier League. In short we are stuck with each other. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie53 on November 23, 2019, 10:58:15 PM
Someone who phoned WM after the game said he had heard that the owner is going to release some funds for January. Never said anything to substantiate it, but I wondered if anyone had heard or read anything
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on November 23, 2019, 11:00:33 PM
Been mentioned on another site. Be great if he just came to a match let alone invested
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on November 23, 2019, 11:09:56 PM
Been mentioned on another site. Be great if he just came to a match let alone invested

I think it will be money from within the clubs existing budget and nothing additional
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on November 23, 2019, 11:17:46 PM
Been mentioned on another site. Be great if he just came to a match let alone invested

I don't care if doesn't attend, I want him to invest in a striker. I heard the same comment on wm, but I cannot find any article about him in investing in Jan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on November 24, 2019, 08:51:27 AM
There maybe money available in January but it will be within the club's existing budget. Lai is not going to subsidise the running of the club if that is what you mean by the word "investing".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBrom on November 24, 2019, 10:06:55 AM
You just have to look at the trouble that yesterday's opponents are in to see a poorly managed club. We continue to live within our means and we're still top of the league in doing so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on November 24, 2019, 10:43:20 AM
Who is this invisible chap Guochuan Lai? Name vaguely rings a bell....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on November 24, 2019, 12:35:19 PM
You just have to look at the trouble that yesterday's opponents are in to see a poorly managed club. We continue to live within our means and we're still top of the league in doing so.

We live within our means because until the end of next season our means are vastly more than most of the championship. The last window saw us bring a lot of cash and rid ourselves of a lot of wages, so I think should be more than in the pot to get whatever we need to get over the line. I know Peterborough are talking stupid money in the press but if we bid £5m for Ivan Toney we should get him. Failing that we can try for loan players like Gayle (if proven match fit) or maybe niasse.

We have to go up in the end of next season to not be in the same boat at sheff wed and Derby, etc, etc.

Some of risks being taken in the second tier are shocking. For example Leeds signing costa for a guaranteed £15m at the end of the season and also paying MB £4m a year. I really hope they bottle it again this season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Foster#1 on November 27, 2019, 10:55:00 PM
Deserves some credit I suppose ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 27, 2019, 10:58:04 PM
He has to put his hand in his pocket/purse sometime.
Remember the old adage.... You have to speculate to accumulate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 27, 2019, 10:59:45 PM
Yep, said elsewhere on here that he would be mad not strengthen the squad with a quality player or 2 in January if we are in top 2.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on November 27, 2019, 11:36:23 PM
The dynamic between the club and Slav will be interesting if Slab wants a player in Jan, can the club be daft enough to pi55 the main man off?

Messrs Lai and Dowling have to be supportive surely
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on November 28, 2019, 12:17:44 AM
Still short up top even with Charlie and Hal beginning to fire.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 28, 2019, 12:32:45 AM
Definitely the position I'd look to strengthen in January more than any other.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on November 28, 2019, 03:09:23 AM
Definitely the position I'd look to strengthen in January more than any other.

Given the players sales and the shrewd, inexpensive signings in the last transfer window there should be more than enough in the kitty to pay a hefty loan fee and wages for the likes of Gayle in January if SB wants him.

It should not require a cash injection from Lai.

Gayle would have got a hatful last night and be on about 15 goals by now if we'd had him from the start.

Hopefully, he'll want to come back and help finish what he started.

If he doesn't want to come as it is rumoured he wants a permanent move I'd consider Ivan toney from Peterborough.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 28, 2019, 01:57:19 PM
Gayle would be well within our budget for a half season loan even paying his wages in full. It's well known we had 8 figure bid rejected for a striker on last day of window so the moneys there and available to be used.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on December 25, 2019, 05:20:16 PM
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/chairman-west-brom-li-piyue-17458399

New Year's message from Chairman Li Piyue which to me reads as, steady as she goes.
He rightly praises the work of Mark Jenkins and Luke Dowling who have clearly made some very sound key appointments, above all Billic. As a fan you can't criticise what they have achieved this season, but as any succesful businessman will tell you, you always need to plan for the future and think several steps ahead.

Therefore, steady as she goes keeping the key men in the current staff together, whilst also making sure the Academy gets back to producing what they have in recent years. We need to have the right staff in key positions there. If we get promotion, we will need to invest in players to provide better quality in depth to the squad, but I hope also, we look to increase capacity at the Hawthorns. With the current squad under Billic in the Prem, I'm sure we can attract sell out crowds on a regular basis. We could even engineer more sell outs by upping the away fans allocation, although that does create a dillema if it displaces our Smethwick End regulars. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 25, 2020, 12:36:53 AM
Being reported in Mail that Albion are looking for new investment before end of season, £70 million being quoted
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on January 25, 2020, 01:22:37 AM
Being reported in Mail that Albion are looking for new investment before end of season, £70 million being quoted
The Mail?? Reported? Quoted? Can someone on here delve a bit deeper, because I can’t be arsed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 25, 2020, 02:11:23 AM
Just had a quick look can't see anything. Link please?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 25, 2020, 08:15:17 AM
On sky sports app, paper talk
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 25, 2020, 08:36:05 AM
Being reported in Mail that Albion are looking for new investment before end of season, £70 million being quoted

I recall something about WBA looking for additional investors, but I'm not sure about a timescale.
According to Simon Chadwick it's unlikely that Chinas' government will allow significant cash to leave China in the near future, so any investment will have to come from ROW.
Certainly the Arab countries are looking for opportunities in football, but I'm not sure if an Arab/Chinese ownership would be likely to happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on January 25, 2020, 09:27:23 AM
For me, the best reason for getting promoted will be for Lai to put the club up for sale and attempt to recoup as much money back as he and his consortium can get. I appreciate selling a football club is a very niche market and will probably take a long time. From the word go when the midland clubs were being bought up by Far Eastern investors (Blues, Vile and Dingles) I hoped it would t happen to us. Sadly it did though. For me personally, this has not worked out for any of the parties concerned - club, fans,  owners, etc. I’m not making unreasonable demands for a ‘golden tit’ but I do expect better than what we’ve currently got.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 25, 2020, 11:30:16 AM
Why will he sell up if we go up?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 25, 2020, 12:54:16 PM
Hopefully he's self-aware enough to know that when it comes to running a football club, he's clueless, useless and it's his best bet to get out without looking like a failure back home.

Hopefully the massive drop in value that comes with being in the CHampionship scares sense into him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 25, 2020, 01:03:58 PM
Hopefully he's self-aware enough to know that when it comes to running a football club, he's clueless, useless and it's his best bet to get out without looking like a failure back home.

Hopefully the massive drop in value that comes with being in the CHampionship scares sense into him.

As far as I can tell, he’s never attempted to run the club. I personally don’t think he’s done much wrong. He said we would need to be self sufficient and the club has. He’s not stopped the club spending the clubs own money.

Maybe some bad decisions with senior figures but you can understand why he made them at the time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: frazzle on January 25, 2020, 01:05:24 PM
He’s pretty much done exactly what he said he would do so don’t understand the negativity.

If he’s broke any promises then I’m not aware of them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 25, 2020, 01:10:22 PM
As far as I can tell, he’s never attempted to run the club. I personally don’t think he’s done much wrong. He said we would need to be self sufficient and the club has. He’s not stopped the club spending the clubs own money.

Maybe some bad decisions with senior figures but you can understand why he made them at the time.

I'm not saying he has he promised cash and hasn't delivered. I believe that he thought he was buying a club that would just tick over mn icely in the PL and by doing so, in time, with increased TV revenue every few years the clubs value would go up and he could walk away with a nice sum in his pocket. I don't believe he's bought the club as a long term investment. I think he bought it as a safe investment for a few years but it's all gone wrong. This is what, i hope, makes him realise and move on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 25, 2020, 01:34:34 PM
So who does he sell to?

A sugar daddy isn’t realistic. Another investor and nothing much is likely to change, success will still be about the senior figures getting key appointments right (managers and players). Worst of all you end up with a basket case.

Our biggest issue and what will make or break us is recruitment, we have to be better in that department. Hopefully that will start this window but I have my doubts seeing as the main target appears to be based on a player with a Croatian connection who has hit the best form of his career recently.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 25, 2020, 01:43:14 PM
There are still plenty of wealthy people out there who would love to buy a PL club. A new TV deal has kicked in since he bought it so although he overpaid i think he would get most of his money back.


Agree 100% about the recruitment. Needs a complete overhaul.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on January 25, 2020, 02:14:46 PM
with increased TV revenue every few years the clubs value would go up and he could walk away with a nice sum in his pocket. .


This seems to be an argument for him holding on to his investment if we go up whereas if we stayed down he might look for an investor to spread his risk of greater losses.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 25, 2020, 02:21:17 PM
I don't think he even considered us going down during his tenure here IMO. I think he saw us and bought us as a safe bet and he could be completely hands off and make a profit and sell in 5 years or so.

Of course it's not turned out that way.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 26, 2020, 09:01:30 AM
Anyone know why they are looking for £70 million investment before end of season?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 26, 2020, 10:20:33 AM
As far as I can tell, he’s never attempted to run the club. I personally don’t think he’s done much wrong. He said we would need to be self sufficient and the club has. He’s not stopped the club spending the clubs own money.

Maybe some bad decisions with senior figures but you can understand why he made them at the time.

Agree with this. GL hasn’t done anything wrong and has actually kept his promises!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: geoff on January 26, 2020, 10:50:22 AM
Agree with this. GL hasn’t done anything wrong and has actually kept his promises!

A man of his word.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on January 26, 2020, 12:09:45 PM
Anyone know why they are looking for £70 million investment before end of season?






This is a strange one. Been reported twice now. Does it mean he’s looking to sell for 70 million or is he giving up half of his stake? Either way hopefully his tenure is coming to an end and we’ll get someone who at least wants to watch the team he owns. The Chinese have been a disappointment and all this can’t get money out of the country I am really not sure what to make of it all
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on February 22, 2020, 11:22:00 AM
Not getting much praise is he? It’s quite unfair.

Anyway, what do you think of this?

 https://www.facebook.com/groups/832788543495740/permalink/2689079471199962 (https://www.facebook.com/groups/832788543495740/permalink/2689079471199962)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 22, 2020, 11:40:13 AM
Not getting much praise is he? It’s quite unfair.

Anyway, what do you think of this?

 https://www.facebook.com/groups/832788543495740/permalink/2689079471199962 (https://www.facebook.com/groups/832788543495740/permalink/2689079471199962)

Interesting video, my first thoughts were "Conspiracy Theory", but as I watched I began to realise that China would stop at nothing to have influence and control over the region, by seducing the population with "gifts". But is it now too late to halt their march or will it benefit us all in the long run?

Personally, I'm not happy to have a foreign entity having so much sway over us as it's taken 40 odd years to get rid of the last lot.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 22, 2020, 01:36:18 PM
That is a load of rubbish, I do have little doubt that China will be the superpower in 30 years time, if you look at the speed they build rail lines they would see HS2 /3 as a sidings
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 22, 2020, 02:23:13 PM
That is a load of rubbish, I do have little doubt that China will be the superpower in 30 years time, if you look at the speed they build rail lines they would see HS2 /3 as a sidings
And a hospital in 10 days.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 22, 2020, 02:57:59 PM
Not getting much praise is he? It’s quite unfair.

Anyway, what do you think of this?

 https://www.facebook.com/groups/832788543495740/permalink/2689079471199962 (https://www.facebook.com/groups/832788543495740/permalink/2689079471199962)

Stories have been around for a long time and have been posted on here, theres a Professorof Eurasian Sport who discusses it at times

https://twitter.com/Prof_Chadwick/status/1118140607338352641
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on February 22, 2020, 03:09:28 PM
That is a load of rubbish, I do have little doubt that China will be the superpower in 30 years time, if you look at the speed they build rail lines they would see HS2 /3 as a sidings
Montgomery of Alamein thought so too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on March 10, 2020, 06:56:03 PM
Interestingly the owner of Southampton FC, a certain Gao Ji Sheng, is seeking to offload his 80% share in the club (Sunday Times 8th March).  This would seem to contradict the claims of the above clip: https://www.facebook.com/groups/832788543495740/permalink/2689079471199962

He's allegedly seeking £250M for 80% Southampton (equiv £312.5 all in).  This makes you wonder how much Lai currently values The Albion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 26, 2020, 07:00:39 AM
Interestingly the owner of Southampton FC, a certain Gao Ji Sheng, is seeking to offload his 80% share in the club (Sunday Times 8th March).  This would seem to contradict the claims of the above clip: https://www.facebook.com/groups/832788543495740/permalink/2689079471199962

He's allegedly seeking £250M for 80% Southampton (equiv £312.5 all in).  This makes you wonder how much Lai currently values The Albion.

Thought I'd open up this topic about the speculation about Lai and a possible sale to of all people Mike Ashley.

And lo and behold the above post is very relevant to the debate that has broken out on the Covid-19 thread

To update it has been reported that the asking price has been dropped by £50m as the pandemic has worsened.

So this speaks to a couple of themes. That the Chinese and in particular Lai won't sell at a loss because of the loss of face. Yes he will because he is a  businessman and if there is no realistic route back to the £200m valuation then take a loss and move on.

My view is that if Ashley were to be interested in a club it would be one of sufficient stature that it could tick over at a mid Premier level without him investing anything other than the initial purchase price, and he then could extract whatever value he could for Sports Direct.

I honestly think we aren't quite big enough the relegation risk is a little too high. Then I thought Southampton they would be ideal. He needs to pick them up for no more than £100m for the trick to work so although the current ownership is frantically looking for the exit the valuation is still too high but watch this space.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 26, 2020, 04:19:48 PM
Can we keep to discussing Guochuan Lai in this thread please.  Non GL posts will be removed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 16, 2020, 10:33:05 AM
With all the furore surrounding  the Government's decision to get rid of Huawei I wonder how long it will be before the Chinese government start pulling money out of the country, and I wonder if that happens do we get sold on the cheap?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 16, 2020, 10:41:25 AM
With all the furore surrounding  the Government's decision to get rid of Huawei I wonder how long it will be before the Chinese government start pulling money out of the country, and I wonder if that happens do we get sold on the cheap?

From previous conversations on the topic, GL's purchase was a private deal & probably wouldn't be effected by politics.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 16, 2020, 10:45:56 AM
From previous conversations on the topic, GL's purchase was a private deal & probably wouldn't be effected by politics.

He's a Chinese business man, I would imagine the Chinese government could be very persuasive if they put their mind to it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 16, 2020, 11:06:21 AM
He's a Chinese business man, I would imagine the Chinese government could be very persuasive if they put their mind to it.

I think the comment was, "It's small beer & the Chinese government probably wouldn't be that interested"

IMO the Chinese government would be far more interested in the non-Chinese activities of Fosun.

China still has ambition to be a world player in sport, & it wouldn't be surprising to see Fosun switch their investments to European Clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 16, 2020, 12:13:51 PM
All non Guochuan Lai relevant posts will be removed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on July 16, 2020, 02:46:16 PM
I know I heard about money being stuck in China etc a while back but do we actually know his real intentions for the club? Was it to keep the books balanced and ticking over? I wouldn't want us to go Derby/Villa/Sheff Wed route of selling our ground to make money etc as I can see all those ending very badly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 16, 2020, 02:48:57 PM
I know I heard about money being stuck in China etc a while back but do we actually know his real intentions for the club? Was it to keep the books balanced and ticking over? I wouldn't want us to go Derby/Villa/Sheff Wed route of selling our ground to make money etc as I can see all those ending very badly.

Pretty much from what I remember, a continuation of the Peace model.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on July 16, 2020, 02:51:30 PM
With all the furore surrounding  the Government's decision to get rid of Huawei I wonder how long it will be before the Chinese government start pulling money out of the country, and I wonder if that happens do we get sold on the cheap?

Weren’t we told the reason Lai hasn’t spent much money on the club since purchasing it is because the Chinese Government have placed a hold on Chinese money/investment being spent overseas. It was explained to me the reason Fosun get around this is because their holdings are registered in Hong Kong. Probably another BS excuse fed to us Albion fans as to why there’s no substantial investment being made into the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on July 16, 2020, 02:52:46 PM
Pretty much from what I remember, a continuation of the Peace model.

The very model we need to get away from.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 16, 2020, 02:56:57 PM
The very model we need to get away from.

Being self sufficient isn't something to deviate from.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on July 16, 2020, 05:04:10 PM
The very model we need to get away from.

Why do we need to get away from it? And what model shall we use? Last time we deviated from the tried and tested we got relegated and financially hamstrung due to money wasted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 16, 2020, 05:36:58 PM
You never give Tony Pulis money to burn (by our standards) because his rack record shows, burn it he will.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on July 16, 2020, 08:17:54 PM
Why do we need to get away from it? And what model shall we use? Last time we deviated from the tried and tested we got relegated and financially hamstrung due to money wasted.

Spending money wasn’t the problem. Having rubbish players and managers had a lot to do with it!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 16, 2020, 10:24:10 PM
The Chinese government and it's attitude to overseas investment is to some extent Lai's problem not ours although I have to feel a little uncomfortable about the prospect of the club's future possibly being impacted by the backwash in Anglo Sino relations which may be anything other than straightforward.

There is no tap of investment to turn off so what we never have had we can't miss. If the club is self sustaining there is no particular threat. Even a forced sale hurts the owner not the club itself. As has been discussed given that Lai paid too much for the club assest stripping does not give him a return and getting the club back to the Premier League and selling the club as a viable self sustaining entity is Lai's only hope of retrieving the bulk of his investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on July 16, 2020, 11:07:58 PM
Often banded around by fans who have not invested millions.
Truth is we are run properly...it’s not “penny pinching”

Who buys a Ferrari F40 and attempts to service it using eurocarparts.com 🏎

To own a professional football club the size of WBA will always require continuous financial investment, especially to move forward. Failure to do this just leads to stagnation (or worse). As fans we should expect a little more than “well, it’s okay because we’re run properly as a club”.

And going back to the original point the Albion are notorious for penny-pinching.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 16, 2020, 11:49:48 PM
Who buys a Ferrari F40 and attempts to service it using eurocarparts.com 🏎

To own a professional football club the size of WBA will always require continuous financial investment, especially to move forward. Failure to do this just leads to stagnation (or worse). As fans we should expect a little more than “well, it’s okay because we’re run properly as a club”.

And going back to the original point the Albion are notorious for penny-pinching.
Are you suggesting that there are no houses with a value of more than £1m ...that don’t have furniture in them from Ikea ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 17, 2020, 12:52:04 AM
Who buys a Ferrari F40 and attempts to service it using eurocarparts.com 🏎

To own a professional football club the size of WBA will always require continuous financial investment, especially to move forward. Failure to do this just leads to stagnation (or worse). As fans we should expect a little more than “well, it’s okay because we’re run properly as a club”.

And going back to the original point the Albion are notorious for penny-pinching.

Most "investments" in football clubs have a negative expected value. Even under Peace nearly every penny that the club earned went back into the club and were it not for a very fortunate set of circumstances Peace would not have made anywhere near as much as he did. £50m of the sale price was frankly the froth on top of the beer.

Football squanders resources so badly and so routinely that it is difficult to get any true sense of worth but in a world gone mad wear your sanity as a badge of honour. Penny pinching is better than the alternative.

Finally why should fans expect better? At what point did I acquire the right for a random rich person to subsidise my hobby pastime or entertainment?

To give this some context look at the Wigan situation with the attendant hand wringing isn't it terrible what has happened? Well let's cut to the chase here. Wigan lost £16m off a turnover of £11m netted to £9.2m after player sales last year in the Championship the year before £9.6m off a turnover of £6.7m netted down to £7.7m. Wigan have a gate in the Championship of roughly 11,500 to break even as a mid table Championship club without owner subsidy every man women and child needs to put in an additional £800 a year each over and above what they already spend on the club.

Now I am not suggesting for a minute that they can or should but in pretty much every set of circumstances if you want £800 of value you better be prepared to show me the money or you don't get the goods.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on July 21, 2020, 12:27:02 PM
Just out of interest has our owner made any comments re how we are doing. It seems very quite which i find a bit disconcerting.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 21, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
Just out of interest has our owner made any comments re how we are doing. It seems very quite which i find a bit disconcerting.

Mr Lai always hinted at being a silent partner and that it would be business as usual. We are just another company that he owns, he's not a fan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on July 21, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
Mr Lai always hinted at being a silent partner and that it would be business as usual. We are just another company that he owns, he's not a fan.

Thanks for your reply mate. That does not bode well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 21, 2020, 12:46:09 PM
Well if nothing else at least he's been consistent, to date at least.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 21, 2020, 09:17:57 PM
IF we are promoted he will be using the opportunity to network with oligarchs and potential investors in his other business ventures for sure, this will masquerade as supporting the club

That’s how it works sadly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on July 21, 2020, 09:43:21 PM
IF we are promoted he will be using the opportunity to network with oligarchs and potential investors in his other business ventures for sure, this will masquerade as supporting the club

That’s how it works sadly

I bet he's digging his scarf out now ready for his photo opportunity with Man U and Chelsea players should we get promoted
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on July 21, 2020, 11:52:04 PM
Who buys a Ferrari F40 and attempts to service it using eurocarparts.com 🏎

To own a professional football club the size of WBA will always require continuous financial investment, especially to move forward. Failure to do this just leads to stagnation (or worse). As fans we should expect a little more than “well, it’s okay because we’re run properly as a club”.

And going back to the original point the Albion are notorious for penny-pinching.

I’m not all that convinced there is much evidence of us penny pinching in recent years.

12 million spent on Rondon, 11 million on Chadli, up to 15 million spent on Burke, even in the sky’s 2 years we have paid up to 59 grand a week for Gayle in the championship and agreed to a transfer that could see us pay 8 million for Pereira despite not going up.

Spend much more than that and you risk bankruptcy - look at the 3 clubs awaiting potential points deductions plus how perilous Villa’s situation was last year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 22, 2020, 09:42:38 AM
Unless you have actual evidence to prove otherwise can posters not use potentially libelous phrases like "fraudster" when referring to the owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 22, 2020, 10:44:06 PM
Hope he's got buyer lined up as he clearly not interested in club, once again thanks Ebenezer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on July 22, 2020, 10:56:14 PM
Such a massive game for the Club tonight, Lai should have been there. I just have contempt for the man; clearly no respect for the Club or for us supporters (allegedly). Hope that word makes it ok for the mods!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 22, 2020, 11:01:00 PM
Such a massive game for the Club tonight, Lai should have been there. I just have contempt for the man; clearly no respect for the Club or for us supporters (allegedly). Hope that word makes it ok for the mods!

Do we even have an air corridor with China?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 22, 2020, 11:03:31 PM
Do we even have an air corridor with China?

I don't think it really matters if he flys over from China or not. As fans we just owners to put as much money into the club as possible and to protect the club in the longer term.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on July 22, 2020, 11:10:25 PM
It would be nice if this promotion helps him sell the club. I don’t want him here as he has no interest or no ideas. The only issue is what you see at Derby/Wigan/Charlton/Sheff Wed/Forest. Clubs that are a mess as well. Very few football owners seem to be good. So depressing - wish we had the 50 plus 1 rule here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 22, 2020, 11:11:03 PM
Yes, this may be his chance to get out and not lose that much money. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 22, 2020, 11:49:26 PM
OK. Sell the club to me for a penny (like Wolves) and get out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 22, 2020, 11:51:20 PM
Why are we slagging off the guy who employed Bilić who just got us promoted?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: buzzingbaggie on July 22, 2020, 11:57:11 PM
Why are we slagging off the guy who employed Bilić who just got us promoted?

Exactly this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on July 23, 2020, 12:00:12 AM
I’m not all that convinced there is much evidence of us penny pinching in recent years.

12 million spent on Rondon, 11 million on Chadli, up to 15 million spent on Burke, even in the sky’s 2 years we have paid up to 59 grand a week for Gayle in the championship and agreed to a transfer that could see us pay 8 million for Pereira despite not going up.

Spend much more than that and you risk bankruptcy - look at the 3 clubs awaiting potential points deductions plus how perilous Villa’s situation was last year.

Baggies,

Those signings were purchased one at a time over the course of about 3 seasons. When you factor in the Sky money that was paid to the Albion in each of those seasons it really wasn’t a big spending spree at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on July 23, 2020, 12:07:01 AM
I've still not made my mind up on Lair but he took a sinking ship off Peace and was wrongly advised that Pulis guarantees Premier League safety.

His biggest mistake so far is believing that advice.

Since then we have spent money, not sold players like Swansea, and we're back in the premier league. Can't understand the massive criticism at this stage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 23, 2020, 12:09:59 AM
I’d just personally would like to hear from him after promotion. Surely he can do that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 23, 2020, 12:11:53 AM
I've still not made my mind up on Lair but he took a sinking ship off Peace and was wrongly advised that Pulis guarantees Premier League safety.

His biggest mistake so far is believing that advice.

Since then we have spent money, not sold players like Swansea, and we're back in the premier league. Can't understand the massive criticism at this stage.

His biggest mistake was accepting Williams as Chairman. Nothing to do with Pulis.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 23, 2020, 12:15:31 AM
Why are we slagging off the guy who employed Bilić who just got us promoted?
He did not personally employ Slavin.He was told to.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 23, 2020, 12:16:10 AM
He did not personally employ Slavin.He was told to.
Okay mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on July 23, 2020, 10:40:41 AM
Taking on board the fact that Mr Lai is not a fan, and cash is tight (especially overseas currency for Chinese businesses), Mr Lai would be looking to sell his holding now we have been promoted back to the Premiership.  However, in the current climate the market for assets of this type will not be great.  The best we can now hope for is that we spend the limited funds we have wisely, but there is no two ways about it, we will be up against it with a very small and limited squad.  Worse still, there is some talk of the five subs rule continuing into the new season.  If so this will play into the hands of the better established clubs. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on July 23, 2020, 10:43:23 AM
One of the China/Football Professors on twitter has been reporting on the growing China/UK tensions and how itnis affecting football (as of today, China's state broadcaster are no longer showing English and possibly French games).

He has said this could be a bad sign for clubs owned by Chinese investers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mank baggie on July 23, 2020, 10:49:18 AM
One of the China/Football Professors on twitter has been reporting on the growing China/UK tensions and how itnis affecting football (as of today, China's state broadcaster are no longer showing English and possibly French games).

He has said this could be a bad sign for clubs owned by Chinese investers.

Maybe that's why we've stop giving super state China £71 million in foreign aid
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on July 23, 2020, 12:06:14 PM
Let's hope he sells us with some with actual deep pockets and who knows what a football looks like.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 23, 2020, 12:22:53 PM
The last thing that you would wish for a football club is that it's future prosperity is entwined in a complicated net of global power politics. Yet increasingly that is where we are along with any number of other European clubs and Leagues. If we were heavily dependent on external financing I would be very worried right now fortunately we are not and last's night result has bolstered our finances. Yet I cannot help feel uneasy about how this plays out. And you know it will be the clubs that will bare the brunt of any fall out rather than any of the other players involved.

Let's hope he sells us with some with actual deep pockets and who knows what a football looks like.

Honestly every time we spin the ownership roulette wheel there is very good chance we pick up the owner from hell. A forced sale would weight the wheel very heavily in favour of chancers and rich fantasists.

Stop looking for a sugar daddy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on July 23, 2020, 12:31:46 PM
The last thing that you would wish for a football club is that it's future prosperity is entwined in a complicated net of global power politics. Yet increasingly that is where we are along with any number of other European clubs and Leagues. If we were heavily dependent on external financing I would be very worried right now fortunately we are not and last's night result has bolstered our finances. Yet I cannot help feel uneasy about how this plays out. And you know it will be the clubs that will bare the brunt of any fall out rather than any of the other players involved.

Honestly every time we spin the ownership roulette wheel there is very good chance we pick up the owner from hell. A forced sale would weight the wheel very heavily in favour of chancers and rich fantasists.

Stop looking for a sugar daddy.

Don't tell me what to look for, you have your opinion I have mine, your constant patronising tone really grates.

The dings have shown what wise investment can lead to. Why shouldn't somebody come in and invest wisely in players who increase in value, I never said a sugar daddy who just throws money at us like Hayward and Walker.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 23, 2020, 12:35:11 PM
To be honest, if he leaves us to be run by the current structure, I'm content with that, seems to be working well, S B seems to work well within that structure and recently praised it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 19, 2020, 01:11:22 PM
I noticed lots of debate going on in another thread about our majority share owner. Anyone who thinks he plans to or even can bankroll us should refresh their memories by reading the articles below. In my opinion, there would be no way he could invest in Albion form funds secretly stashed outside of China without alerting the Chines authorities.

He said at the outset of buying his majority shareholding in the Albion that the financial blue print of the previous majority shareholder would not be compromised. On the one occasion we strayed from it the then CEO and his right hand man were sacked.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-much-west-bromwich-albion-15723890

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/18/guochuan-lai-tells-west-brom-he-cant-settle-41m-debt-because-of-chinese-government-restrictions/

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/01/19/comment-guochuan-lais-current-financial-model-for-west-brom-will-not-last-in-the-championship/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 19, 2020, 03:35:00 PM
Why are other clubs with Chinese owners not in the same boat? 

We get the Prem money - not much spare money there.
Chinese owners - can't invest overseas.

So I don't understand why, when you look at other Chinese owned clubs, they aren't all suffering the same with meagre transfer budgets and looking to buy League 1 youngsters.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 19, 2020, 03:46:11 PM
Why are other clubs with Chinese owners not in the same boat? 

We get the Prem money - not much spare money there.
Chinese owners - can't invest overseas.

So I don't understand why, when you look at other Chinese owned clubs, they aren't all suffering the same with meagre transfer budgets and looking to buy League 1 youngsters.

chinese ownerships a bit of a myth,

The only clubs with majority chinese owners
WBA     owners value 2.4B
Soton                        4.0Bn
Dingles                      9.2B
Blues                         0.5B
Reading                     unknown
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 19, 2020, 04:30:51 PM
It's still a case that clubs with strong Chinese investment aren't all pleading poverty though.

Wolves spent £109m last year.

Southamptom spent £52m last year and have spent £22m so far this year.

Brum spent about £8m last season, not a massive amount behind us (would have been more if it wasn't for Zohore), they're supposed to be struggling and didn't have any parachute money.

Reading spent £11m last year, again no parachute money.

Basically, I don't believe that it's impossible for any investment to come into the club.  if we're feeding off scraps now, then there's literally no point to promotion - I refuse to believe that's the case.  Harumph.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 19, 2020, 05:32:54 PM
It is simple Lai has never said that he was going to run the club on anything other than a self sustaining basis. It therefore does not matter whether or not he has funds or is allowed to export the cash or not.

It does not matter what other Chinese owners choose to do or for that matter any other club owners. The money the club has is the money the club generates from operations and transfer fees.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 19, 2020, 05:42:38 PM
It is simple Lai has never said that he was going to run the club on anything other than a self sustaining basis. It therefore does not matter whether or not he has funds or is allowed to export the cash or not.

It does not matter what other Chinese owners choose to do or for that matter any other club owners. The money the club has is the money the club generates from operations and transfer fees.

Another voice of reason and understanding, others take note!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 19, 2020, 05:47:51 PM
It is simple Lai has never said that he was going to run the club on anything other than a self sustaining basis. It therefore does not matter whether or not he has funds or is allowed to export the cash or not.

It does not matter what other Chinese owners choose to do or for that matter any other club owners. The money the club has is the money the club generates from operations and transfer fees.

Well, yes, nobody has argued that isn't the case.  I'm just saying the "I can't invest because of the Chinese government" is more of an excuse than a reality.  If he *wanted* to get investment into the club, he could.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 19, 2020, 05:53:12 PM
Well, yes, nobody has argued that isn't the case.  I'm just saying the "I can't invest because of the Chinese government" is more of an excuse than a reality. If he *wanted* to get investment into the club, he could.

Could you enlighten me, if no one else, just how he would do that please
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 19, 2020, 05:56:27 PM
Well, yes, nobody has argued that isn't the case.  I'm just saying the "I can't invest because of the Chinese government" is more of an excuse than a reality.  If he *wanted* to get investment into the club, he could.

Qu, Who in their right mind would invest in a football club, when, the biggest TV audience has just been cut off, Covid has stopped fans attending, financial markets are in melt down and most predictions are that a mega depression is around the corner?     

Ans, Only me and my ugandan uncle !!!

"Wanting to get investment" requires investors to want to contribute, not likely in the best of times, yet alone now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on August 19, 2020, 07:27:19 PM
It's still a case that clubs with strong Chinese investment aren't all pleading poverty though.

Wolves spent £109m last year.

Southamptom spent £52m last year and have spent £22m so far this year.

Brum spent about £8m last season, not a massive amount behind us (would have been more if it wasn't for Zohore), they're supposed to be struggling and didn't have any parachute money.

Reading spent £11m last year, again no parachute money.

Basically, I don't believe that it's impossible for any investment to come into the club.  if we're feeding off scraps now, then there's literally no point to promotion - I refuse to believe that's the case.  Harumph.

You're only looking at the outgoing transfer fees which is completely pointless. If we sell Pereira for £40m and then spend £40m on new players does that mean Lai is splashing the cash?

Southampton spent £28m net last season (£3m more than our supposed budget everyone's moaning about). Birmingham actually made a £12m profit on player sales. Reading spent slightly more than an average Championship team on pretty mediocre players, I wouldn't class £11m as 'strong Chinese investment'.

Fosun, as has been explained multiple times, have a lot of money already outside of China which means they can invest. Even then, once Cutrone becomes a permanent Fiorentina player their net spend drops to £60m since the 19/20 summer window opened - hardly a mind-blowing figure.

Then you've got Dr Tony at Villa, who couldn't get any more funds out of China so he had to get extra investment. The club were in serious danger without it, they sold Villa Park to the new owners to get their losses down to £70m.

So yeah, Lai can't just pump money in if he fancies it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on August 19, 2020, 07:59:30 PM
Could you enlighten me, if no one else, just how he would do that please
Although it failed wasn't the Chinese player bought with £8m of Lais personal money? Isn't that linvesting.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 20, 2020, 10:09:04 AM
Either this bloke bought this club as a vanity project and over leveraged himself or he's in it for the long haul which has got nothing to do with football but a high speed rail line.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 20, 2020, 10:49:19 AM
PL club is a status symbol to someone like Lai I'd imagine plus gets his foot in the door at UK business bigboy meetings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on August 20, 2020, 07:53:19 PM
PL club is a status symbol to someone like Lai I'd imagine plus gets his foot in the door at UK business bigboy meetings.
He's going to end up with cricked neck.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 20, 2020, 08:33:05 PM
Although it failed wasn't the Chinese player bought with £8m of Lais personal money? Isn't that linvesting.

The player, Zhang Yuning was bought for an undisclosed fee with the owners personal funding and nothing that showed up in the Albion’s financial accounts as I understand it.

He was then sold, by the owner, to Chinese Super League team Beijing Guoan for an undisclosed fee. So, he, the owner may have made a profit, who knows?

And the owner still owes the club £4.1m, so could hardly be considered an “investment” in the Albion now could it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on August 20, 2020, 09:18:59 PM
Although it failed wasn't the Chinese player bought with £8m of Lais personal money? Isn't that linvesting.
There was something strange about this deal. Even though he cost £8m, he made Kenneth Zohore's role worthy of Player of the Season award. I follow the Bundesliga fairly close, but this bloke was invisible at Werder Bremen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 20, 2020, 09:20:02 PM
There was something strange about this deal. Even though he cost £8m, he made Kenneth Zohore's role worthy of Player of the Season award. I follow the Bundesliga fairly close, but this bloke was invisible at Werder Bremen.

He was no less a waste of money than Zohore and he wasnt a waste of the club's money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 20, 2020, 09:26:03 PM
From memory Palm sponsored our training ground to a sum which equated to the transfer fee. I think.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on August 20, 2020, 11:23:31 PM
The player, Zhang Yuning was bought for an undisclosed fee with the owners personal funding and nothing that showed up in the Albion’s financial accounts as I understand it.

He was then sold, by the owner, to Chinese Super League team Beijing Guoan for an undisclosed fee. So, he, the owner may have made a profit, who knows?

And the owner still owes the club £4.1m, so could hardly be considered an “investment” in the Albion now could it?
So for what reason does the club owner buy and sell  a player using his own monev?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on August 20, 2020, 11:48:42 PM
So for what reason does the club owner buy and sell  a player using his own monev?
in this case it's for popularity in China. When he was loaned to Bremen his announcement broke their website with traffic. The club didn't think he was good enough otherwise we'd have bought him normally. If he did succeed though, we couldve been swimming in an ocean of Yuan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on August 21, 2020, 12:43:51 AM
in this case it's for popularity in China. When he was loaned to Bremen his announcement broke their website with traffic. The club didn't think he was good enough otherwise we'd have bought him normally. If he did succeed though, we couldve been swimming in an ocean of Yuan.

We did not buy him directly because he would not get a work permit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 21, 2020, 12:45:58 AM
Hope he's got buyer lined up as he clearly not interested in club, once again thanks Ebenezer.
Are you speak like owner on purpose ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: silver surfer on August 21, 2020, 07:12:28 AM
Are you speak like owner on purpose ?
I thinking he speak good England
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 21, 2020, 08:02:36 AM
So for what reason does the club owner buy and sell  a player using his own monev?

Not as an investment in the Albion as you alluded to and that's for sure
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 21, 2020, 09:06:44 AM
Are you speak like owner on purpose ?

Mr Lai has a dolphin ?  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 24, 2020, 06:52:20 PM
Did we have more money to spend last summer because it seems we have got naf all this summer. Where has all the money gone? Bilic is even surprised at lack of funds.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on August 24, 2020, 09:21:48 PM
Did we have more money to spend last summer because it seems we have got naf all this summer. Where has all the money gone? Bilic is even surprised at lack of funds.

As per on the other pages. You'd expect us to get £40-50m?

We "spent" £20 mill on getting promoted via various bonuses. We also have to give back (or rather not get in the first place) £10m to overseas TV licences due to covid. So IF we really do have only £20m left. That's why.

Managers moan, it's part of the PR they have to do. So if we fail they have already established a reason.

Plus, transfers fees are not a reliable indicator of value. Wages are. I'd be more focused on wages.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 24, 2020, 09:36:15 PM
Should we we call him " a lai abilty"?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 24, 2020, 10:45:27 PM
Did we have more money to spend last summer because it seems we have got naf all this summer. Where has all the money gone? Bilic is even surprised at lack of funds.

Every football manager on the planet wants more funds and some may utilise the media to increase their bargaining, especially when their esteem is held highly.

I am not sure even providing any insight into where money is going will be of benefit as you will take a very firm position that all the money has gone askew - despite a large portion of those money already being accounted for.

The position we find ourselves in in terms of funds is no different to our previous seasons in the Premier League - only this time we have significantly reduced revenues.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on August 24, 2020, 11:04:45 PM
Did we have more money to spend last summer because it seems we have got naf all this summer. Where has all the money gone? Bilic is even surprised at lack of funds.

It seems that a good chunk went on bonuses, hard to argue against when 4 more years of Premier League revenue is guarenteed, then all the flex up contracts are increased, it's not what we want but we have to live within our means this season, be realistic and accept, our chances of remaining in the Premier League are probably less than 50%
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 25, 2020, 12:13:54 AM
As per on the other pages. You'd expect us to get £40-50m?

We "spent" £20 mill on getting promoted via various bonuses. We also have to give back (or rather not get in the first place) £10m to overseas TV licences due to covid. So IF we really do have only £20m left. That's why.

Managers moan, it's part of the PR they have to do. So if we fail they have already established a reason.

Plus, transfers fees are not a reliable indicator of value. Wages are. I'd be more focused on wages.
where did you get those figures from, £20 million in bonuses seems awfully high, wages with some players would double but not all. Gibbs is believed to be our highest earner on £50,000.00 plus a week, can't see how the wage bill would go up by that much. Wage bill in Championship was around £35 million if we put your figure of £20 million that brings it up to £55 million, promotion is about £110 million less £10 million that should leave £45 million. Budget is believed to be £25 million so where is the £20 million?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on August 25, 2020, 12:51:13 AM
where did you get those figures from, £20 million in bonuses seems awfully high, wages with some players would double but not all. Gibbs is believed to be our highest earner on £50,000.00 plus a week, can't see how the wage bill would go up by that much. Wage bill in Championship was around £35 million if we put your figure of £20 million that brings it up to £55 million, promotion is about £110 million less £10 million that should leave £45 million. Budget is believed to be £25 million so where is the £20 million?

The wage bill is going to pretty much double from the £35m in the Championship.  Regardless, I’m assuming you aren’t including the wages of new players in that £25m budget? If we bring 6 in on an average of £40k that’s another £12.5m a year, and there aren’t many decent PL players on less than £40k nowadays.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 25, 2020, 02:18:50 AM
The wage bill is going to pretty much double from the £35m in the Championship.  Regardless, I’m assuming you aren’t including the wages of new players in that £25m budget? If we bring 6 in on an average of £40k that’s another £12.5m a year, and there aren’t many decent PL players on less than £40k nowadays.
can't see how wage bill is going to double, only players who previously had prem contracts with us are Gibbs, Hegazi, Livermore, Field, Leko, Phillips, Burke and Kanu. Other players were signed on Championship contracts with bonuses built in if we got promoted no way would club double there wages. Even Pereira's contract was agreed before club got up, he's believed to be on £40,000.00 plus a week. Where has the £20 million plus gone? Is owner giving himself dividend?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on August 25, 2020, 06:31:15 AM
can't see how wage bill is going to double, only players who previously had prem contracts with us are Gibbs, Hegazi, Livermore, Field, Leko, Phillips, Burke and Kanu. Other players were signed on Championship contracts with bonuses built in if we got promoted no way would club double there wages. Even Pereira's contract was agreed before club got up, he's believed to be on £40,000.00 plus a week. Where has the £20 million plus gone? Is owner giving himself dividend?

If the owner is giving himself a dividend there is nothing we can do about it, it’s his club and we can’t change that unless fans buys him out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 25, 2020, 06:50:08 AM
can't see how wage bill is going to double, only players who previously had prem contracts with us are Gibbs, Hegazi, Livermore, Field, Leko, Phillips, Burke and Kanu. Other players were signed on Championship contracts with bonuses built in if we got promoted no way would club double there wages. Even Pereira's contract was agreed before club got up, he's believed to be on £40,000.00 plus a week. Where has the £20 million plus gone? Is owner giving himself dividend?

I suspect deal most of our players are on is something along the lines of X in the Championship and Y in the Premier League. The increase might be subject to appearances. The none playing wage bill does not flex so the overall wage bill does not quiet halve on relegation but nor does it quiet double on promotion.

Bonuses are paid in addition and then there are the add on elements in fees which will be triggered by promotion those won't apply just to the players we signed last year like Sawyers and Ajayi but also those who we signed the previous year.

The ownership cannot take a dividend without also paying it to the minority shareholders so no Lai has not taken any money out of the club unless there is a been a repayment of the £20m plus of owner loans that are now sitting on the books (and no they are not accruing interest). I doubt this is the case.

The truth is the cost base of the club got too high under Williams and to some extent it is still too high. The promotion to the Premier League saved us from a near financial meltdown but it only partially undoes the damage caused by the last season in the Premier and two loss making seasons in the Championship the last one for which accounts are not available yet will be truly horrific when the costs of Covid-19 hit home.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on August 25, 2020, 09:53:55 AM
I suspect deal most of our players are on is something along the lines of X in the Championship and Y in the Premier League. The increase might be subject to appearances. The none playing wage bill does not flex so the overall wage bill does not quiet halve on relegation but nor does it quiet double on promotion.

Bonuses are paid in addition and then there are the add on elements in fees which will be triggered by promotion those won't apply just to the players we signed last year like Sawyers and Ajayi but also those who we signed the previous year.

The ownership cannot take a dividend without also paying it to the minority shareholders so no Lai has not taken any money out of the club unless there is a been a repayment of the £20m plus of owner loans that are now sitting on the books (and no they are not accruing interest). I doubt this is the case.

The truth is the cost base of the club got too high under Williams and to some extent it is still too high. The promotion to the Premier League saved us from a near financial meltdown but it only partially undoes the damage caused by the last season in the Premier and two loss making seasons in the Championship the last one for which accounts are not available yet will be truly horrific when the costs of Covid-19 hit home.


Absolutely! And this is only the beginning. Most clubs will be taking a massive hit because of Covid which will ultimately result in reduced wages for all employees....including first team players. A very few clubs (the usual suspects, we all know who) will not feel the effects yet, but they will eventually. Wages are always the major impact on a companies finances, and players and agents are going to have to accept pay cuts as this pandemic lingers on and on and on, which believe me, it will. This will have the effect of driving transfer fees down...I think many clubs are waiting for this to happen, including us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 25, 2020, 10:19:14 AM

The ownership cannot take a dividend without also paying it to the minority shareholders so no Lai has not taken any money out of the club unless there is a been a repayment of the £20m plus of owner loans that are now sitting on the books (and no they are not accruing interest). I doubt this is the case.


Unless he owns a separate class of shares.  I don't know about the share holding at The Albion but some concerns have quite complicated share arrangements.  Dividends of all classes would be declared in company accounts but we might have to wait for a some time to look at those.

However, I can well believe that the club has strained its finances to reach the EPL.  Those expecting Lai to "show ambition" are going to be disappointed.    "Ambition" in football terms today often leads to ruin tomorrow.

What I would not like to see is the club sell its primary assets like the Hawthorns in order to reach 12th place in the tawdry EPL
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 25, 2020, 11:02:58 AM
Some posts suggest that we over spent in Pulis era but majority of those high earners are off the books with substantial transfers to boot. Evans, Rondon, Mcclean, Foster, Dawson and Rodriguez brought in well over £40 million. Monies given for players doesn't come anywhere near that, so looks to me that sizeable chunk of money is not being used to help team compete this season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 25, 2020, 11:08:08 AM
I suspect deal most of our players are on is something along the lines of X in the Championship and Y in the Premier League. The increase might be subject to appearances. The none playing wage bill does not flex so the overall wage bill does not quiet halve on relegation but nor does it quiet double on promotion.

Bonuses are paid in addition and then there are the add on elements in fees which will be triggered by promotion those won't apply just to the players we signed last year like Sawyers and Ajayi but also those who we signed the previous year.

The ownership cannot take a dividend without also paying it to the minority shareholders so no Lai has not taken any money out of the club unless there is a been a repayment of the £20m plus of owner loans that are now sitting on the books (and no they are not accruing interest). I doubt this is the case.

The truth is the cost base of the club got too high under Williams and to some extent it is still too high. The promotion to the Premier League saved us from a near financial meltdown but it only partially undoes the damage caused by the last season in the Premier and two loss making seasons in the Championship the last one for which accounts are not available yet will be truly horrific when the costs of Covid-19 hit home.
question could owner take prize money from prem to pay off loans he incurred when buying club? Ie his £200 million
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 25, 2020, 11:13:27 AM
My understanding is the only way the owner can take money out the club is either dividends which would also be paid to every other shareholder or by taking a salary. Anything substantial he would have to pay a huge amount of tax on.

It’s illegal to just take money out of a company
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 25, 2020, 11:14:50 AM
The full accounts which shows everything can be found on Companies House
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 25, 2020, 11:29:28 AM
question could owner take prize money from prem to pay off loans he incurred when buying club? Ie his £200 million

Lai is a majority shareholder, he can only be paid a dividend on profits.

He, nor any other shareholder, cannot take chunks from operating revenue.

Details of accounts for year ending June 2019 are on companies house website.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on August 25, 2020, 12:55:03 PM
I know it's been mentioned before, but I would really love to know why Lai bought the club.

With Fosun and the likes, it was to give themselves an in for winning HS2-connected development projects. They have multiple companies that can compete for tenders under their banner, and owning a local team helps them grease the wheels as it were.

However Lai doesn't seem to be setting up anything Palm based in the UK. You would think he might try, a construction company gaining a foothold in time for HS2 seems like a good idea, but nothing has happened on that score.

I always thought it was about training the next generation of Chinese players; the "West Bromwich Albion Football Towns (TM)" would be host to promising Chinese youngsters and their parents. They would live there while receiving training from Chinese coaches, who had in turn been trained by our youth development coaches, and were using our methods. They sign a deal with the company that runs the town, and when they get picked up by a team (in China or abroad), the company takes a transfer fee. In some countries they could even keep hold of part of the players registration, and act as a Mendes-like super-agent for players trained by them. But I haven't heard any more about the 'football towns' idea since our relegation.

It certainly isn't due to any club loyalty, or wanting a rich mans plaything. And we must be a bit of a political hot potato at the moment, with everything that's going on.

Makes you wonder.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 25, 2020, 01:01:49 PM
Yep, i remember hearing somerthing about WBA villages/homes. All vanished without a trace.

He has literally done nothing here or there. His actions, or lack thereof make no sense. Literally anonymous.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 25, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
I know it's been mentioned before, but I would really love to know why Lai bought the club.

With Fosun and the likes, it was to give themselves an in for winning HS2-connected development projects. They have multiple companies that can compete for tenders under their banner, and owning a local team helps them grease the wheels as it were.

However Lai doesn't seem to be setting up anything Palm based in the UK. You would think he might try, a construction company gaining a foothold in time for HS2 seems like a good idea, but nothing has happened on that score.

I always thought it was about training the next generation of Chinese players; the "West Bromwich Albion Football Towns (TM)" would be host to promising Chinese youngsters and their parents. They would live there while receiving training from Chinese coaches, who had in turn been trained by our youth development coaches, and were using our methods. They sign a deal with the company that runs the town, and when they get picked up by a team (in China or abroad), the company takes a transfer fee. In some countries they could even keep hold of part of the players registration, and act as a Mendes-like super-agent for players trained by them. But I haven't heard any more about the 'football towns' idea since our relegation.

It certainly isn't due to any club loyalty, or wanting a rich mans plaything. And we must be a bit of a political hot potato at the moment, with everything that's going on.

Makes you wonder.

My understanding was something similar to what you describe.

I believe the focus was on the global development of Palm.

At the time, there was a massive push in China to become a major player in world football, together with a desire to improve the Chinese ecological profile.
Hence the eco-town projects.

I'm really not sure that Lai is that wealthy personally, but Palm & the eco-town projects had some serious financial backing (to the tune of several billion yuan).

Palm is a listed company, but not a lot is known about the consortium known as Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited, who Lai owns & are the majority shareholders of WBA.

As others have said, if we're relying on the performance of Palm to provide investment income to WBA, we're in trouble.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 25, 2020, 03:11:25 PM
Multiple staff lay-offs being talked about on twitter. Permanent not furlough.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 25, 2020, 03:14:12 PM
Yeah clubshop to close. All permanent staff laid off. Clubshop to reopen using temps as and when needed.

Whether it goes further than that I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 25, 2020, 03:17:48 PM
Does this apply to both or just one of the shops !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 25, 2020, 03:27:09 PM
Where is this lads? Not disputing it just generally can’t find it ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 25, 2020, 03:29:09 PM
Wba fans talking about it in Twitter. Clubshop not closing for good just to close down while staff get laid off then reopen with new staff who are temps.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 25, 2020, 03:30:25 PM
Does this apply to both or just one of the shops !

Merryhill will be open and the online store. Imagine clubshop will just oepn match days to save costs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 25, 2020, 03:30:53 PM
Multiple staff lay-offs being talked about on twitter. Permanent not furlough.

Would not have happened under Jenkins......Ken takes over and guess what.........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on August 25, 2020, 03:34:12 PM
How much do you care?
Enough to do anything about it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 25, 2020, 03:35:40 PM
Would not have happened under Jenkins......Ken takes over and guess what.........

There aye that many more staff to get rid of, who next the bloody groundsman.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 25, 2020, 03:36:39 PM
Where is this lads? Not disputing it just generally can’t find it ;D

Look at #wba

It's somebody with a handle @hunty
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 25, 2020, 03:41:18 PM
Look at #wba

It's somebody with a handle @hunty

Cheers mate, seen it now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 25, 2020, 03:43:14 PM
Would not have happened under Jenkins......Ken takes over and guess what.........

I'll bite.


Think it would have happened anyway, not much point in having an onsite club shop, without fans.

Don't know what percentage of trade Macdonalds & Greggs do on matchday, but wouldn't be surprised to see them go soon too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on August 25, 2020, 03:46:34 PM
I'll bite.


Think it would have happened anyway, not much point in having an onsite club shop, without fans.

Don't know what percentage of trade Macdonalds & Greggs do on matchday, but wouldn't be surprised to see them go soon too.

Taken the furlough money though haven't they, despicable behaviour.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 25, 2020, 03:48:49 PM
Taken the furlough money though haven't they, despicable behaviour.

Yes, absolutely disgraceful, not the sort of behaviour I expect from WBAFC.
Strongly worded email will be out bound
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 25, 2020, 03:50:02 PM
I remember the thing about the football developments in China. What I didn't understand then and what I don't understand now is why he'd spend x amount of millions buying us to help him along the way. He could have hired a Sporting Technical Director and a team of coaches to do exactly the same at a fraction of the price without the threat of relegation hindering the value of his investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 25, 2020, 03:52:55 PM
Taken the furlough money though haven't they, despicable behaviour.


Pretty sure that Jenkins said that no WBA staff had been furloughed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 25, 2020, 03:54:36 PM
How many STH’s left their rebate in the club ? Could have helped even if it saved only one job
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 25, 2020, 03:56:26 PM

Pretty sure that Jenkins said that no WBA staff had been furloughed.

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2020/april/a-statement-from-chief-executive-mark-jenkins

“Like many other clubs. we have considered using a Furlough approach with non-playing staff who are now unable to work owing to the lock-down and we have made plans for this eventuality.

“At present we have not been required to sanction this action, but if the lockdown continues and football remains ‘on-hold’ then this decision may have to be changed. What we will pledge is to ensure none of the staff effected suffer a reduction in pay; the Club will make up the 20 per cent shortfall not covered by the Government’s Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 25, 2020, 03:58:06 PM
I'll bite.


Think it would have happened anyway, not much point in having an onsite club shop, without fans.

Don't know what percentage of trade Macdonalds & Greggs do on matchday, but wouldn't be surprised to see them go soon too.
Keeping Merry Hill open , no match day crowds there . Huge rent increases were in the offing pre Covid to on top of rent which would obviously have been higher than ground store !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 25, 2020, 03:59:57 PM
Yes, absolutely disgraceful, not the sort of behaviour I expect from WBAFC.
Strongly worded email will be out bound
Who would you send it to as I will do the same but not sure now Jenkins has gone where our ire should be directed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 25, 2020, 04:04:27 PM
Who would you send it to as I will do the same but not sure now Jenkins has gone where our ire should be directed
Martin Swain - Director of Communications - West Bromwich Albion Football Club

He should be interested in the clubs perception in the fanbase
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 25, 2020, 04:06:45 PM
Keeping Merry Hill open , no match day crowds there . Huge rent increases were in the offing pre Covid to on top of rent which would obviously have been higher than ground store !

People haven't got to go out of their way to Merry Hill.

I suspect they'll want to do everything on line, so Merry Hill could be next if the overhead is prohibitive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 25, 2020, 04:16:55 PM
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2020/april/a-statement-from-chief-executive-mark-jenkins

“Like many other clubs. we have considered using a Furlough approach with non-playing staff who are now unable to work owing to the lock-down and we have made plans for this eventuality.

“At present we have not been required to sanction this action, but if the lockdown continues and football remains ‘on-hold’ then this decision may have to be changed. What we will pledge is to ensure none of the staff effected suffer a reduction in pay; the Club will make up the 20 per cent shortfall not covered by the Government’s Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme.


Did the club use the furlough scheme though? I don't know.

Jenkins gave up his salary & other senior admin managers took pay cuts.

Given the gestures made by the management team, I find it difficult
to critisise a commercial decision to close the club shop.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 25, 2020, 04:24:24 PM
Martin Swain - Director of Communications - West Bromwich Albion Football Club

He should be interested in the clubs perception in the fanbase
Can’t see his email address on site anywhere have used the generic form under contact us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 25, 2020, 05:56:42 PM
Joseph Masi Twitter Account

Sad news that Albion have made three staff from the megastore at The Hawthorns redundant. The decision is part of an ongoing review into how the shop will be run following a drastic reduction in retail income due to COVID-19.

Source: https://expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/08/25/west-brom-make-three-staff-redundant/ #wba
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on August 25, 2020, 06:33:50 PM
Joseph Masi Twitter Account

Sad news that Albion have made three staff from the megastore at The Hawthorns redundant. The decision is part of an ongoing review into how the shop will be run following a drastic reduction in retail income due to COVID-19.

Source: https://expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/08/25/west-brom-make-three-staff-redundant/ #wba

A absolute disgrace, considering the 4m Lai owes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 25, 2020, 06:46:22 PM
Long-winded moan about the boardroom & budget which ultimately Lai signs off on:

Our income which is guaranteed over the next four seasons, excluding player trading and any commercial revenue is circa £205m as follows:

-£100m (2020/21)
-£50m (2021/22, parachute payment)
-£35m (2022/23, parachute payment year 2)
-£20m (2023/24, final year of parachute payments)

Our wage bill at the end of 2018/2019 was £46.8m, that was then reduced further last summer, if you look at the players that went in and out. Factoring in we have now released Brunt and Barry, our wage bill would have shrunk to a circa £40m but then also increased with players on premier league contracts previously going back having their wages doubled, which includes Kanu, Gibbs, Hegazi, Livermore and Phillips. A crude estimate I would expect our current wage bill to be in the region of £60m, possible less than that currently but I am being cautious.

Against that we have £100m income this season give or take. So that's £40m to spend on transfers and wages which fits in with what we know. What is winding me up royally is the refusal of the bean counters to allocate any of the 2021/22 income towards our squad rebuild. We should be using a lot of £50m as well in one huge effort this summer to build a premier league quality team. After all we not looking to sign players for just 12 months, and transfer fees are going to be staggered over years.

The flex up on the wage bill is limited to our income. We usually run around 90% or more. Which means our wage bill ceiling is around £90m. So we should be allocating in my view up to £30m extra on wages (which in perspective is an additional ten players on £50k a week on average, obviously depending on who we sign we sign some would be on more or less, scope to pay £100k a week for a best players) which gets our wage bill up to £90m, which is affordable (less than our wage bill in the PL previously which was £92m-97m under Hodgson and Pulis)

That then leaves the small matter of transfer fees. If we allocate £30m on wages that leaves us just £10m from this years pot of income. Nowhere near enough. Hence why we need to allocate 50% of the parachute money in as well, which is £25m. If we took that approach we would have the punching power to spend £35m on transfer fees and to increase the wage bill by £30m up to £90m. So that's a total of £65m spent this season on fees and wages against our income guaranteed of £205m over the next four years - it's a millions miles away from a Peter Ridsdale approach, i.e. it would not put the club at risk.

That would be enough IMV to build a premier league quality squad again.

Suppose it went wrong and we got relegated. Well our wage bill would halve to £45m due to the relegation clauses we insert in all contracts (which are now common for most PL clubs outside the top six). We would still have £80m guaranteed income up to the end of 2022/23 so enough to self-fund that squad for the first 2 years. Thereafter, if not before we would need to raise £20m to break even by player sales. We would also have a squad with a much higher value having spent more on transfers.

The clubs approach appears to be to only spend this seasons income, which is very short sighted in my view. It's the same reason no sensible person buys a house in one year - you get a mortgage.

Bilic is a qualified lawyer, I suspect he has done the same maths and is banging his head of the table at the boardroom antics.

The bottom line is this year's budget alone is not enough to build a team to compete in the premier league and the failure to build a decent team results in relegation and a massive loss of income - so not only it wrong from a playing side it is also economically stupid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 25, 2020, 06:58:43 PM
As Bilic said in so many words it equates to £200m over 4 years if we go down or a good chance of at £400m+ over 4 years if you spend wisely now and stay in the PL. A risk worth taking.

Every other club and their board are doing their very best to help secure themselves. I don't think the board can put their hand on their hearts and say that. Whether thats down to Lai or not we won't know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 25, 2020, 08:01:55 PM
Long-winded moan about the boardroom & budget which ultimately Lai signs off on:

Our income which is guaranteed over the next four seasons, excluding player trading and any commercial revenue is circa £205m as follows:

-£100m (2020/21)
-£50m (2021/22, parachute payment)
-£35m (2022/23, parachute payment year 2)
-£20m (2023/24, final year of parachute payments)

Our wage bill at the end of 2018/2019 was £46.8m, that was then reduced further last summer, if you look at the players that went in and out. Factoring in we have now released Brunt and Barry, our wage bill would have shrunk to a circa £40m but then also increased with players on premier league contracts previously going back having their wages doubled, which includes Kanu, Gibbs, Hegazi, Livermore and Phillips. A crude estimate I would expect our current wage bill to be in the region of £60m, possible less than that currently but I am being cautious.

Against that we have £100m income this season give or take. So that's £40m to spend on transfers and wages which fits in with what we know. What is winding me up royally is the refusal of the bean counters to allocate any of the 2021/22 income towards our squad rebuild. We should be using a lot of £50m as well in one huge effort this summer to build a premier league quality team. After all we not looking to sign players for just 12 months, and transfer fees are going to be staggered over years.

The flex up on the wage bill is limited to our income. We usually run around 90% or more. Which means our wage bill ceiling is around £90m. So we should be allocating in my view up to £30m extra on wages (which in perspective is an additional ten players on £50k a week on average, obviously depending on who we sign we sign some would be on more or less, scope to pay £100k a week for a best players) which gets our wage bill up to £90m, which is affordable (less than our wage bill in the PL previously which was £92m-97m under Hodgson and Pulis)

That then leaves the small matter of transfer fees. If we allocate £30m on wages that leaves us just £10m from this years pot of income. Nowhere near enough. Hence why we need to allocate 50% of the parachute money in as well, which is £25m. If we took that approach we would have the punching power to spend £35m on transfer fees and to increase the wage bill by £30m up to £90m. So that's a total of £65m spent this season on fees and wages against our income guaranteed of £205m over the next four years - it's a millions miles away from a Peter Ridsdale approach, i.e. it would not put the club at risk.

That would be enough IMV to build a premier league quality squad again.

Suppose it went wrong and we got relegated. Well our wage bill would halve to £45m due to the relegation clauses we insert in all contracts (which are now common for most PL clubs outside the top six). We would still have £80m guaranteed income up to the end of 2022/23 so enough to self-fund that squad for the first 2 years. Thereafter, if not before we would need to raise £20m to break even by player sales. We would also have a squad with a much higher value having spent more on transfers.

The clubs approach appears to be to only spend this seasons income, which is very short sighted in my view. It's the same reason no sensible person buys a house in one year - you get a mortgage.

Bilic is a qualified lawyer, I suspect he has done the same maths and is banging his head of the table at the boardroom antics.

The bottom line is this year's budget alone is not enough to build a team to compete in the premier league and the failure to build a decent team results in relegation and a massive loss of income - so not only it wrong from a playing side it is also economically stupid.
don't forget incoming transfer fees for Mcclean, Foster, Dawson Rondon and Rodriguez.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on August 25, 2020, 08:29:24 PM
Nice to see that we are looking at ways of saving money, making 3 club shop staff redundant

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/08/25/west-brom-make-three-staff-redundant/

I bet that will amount to Austins hair do's for amonth
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 25, 2020, 10:29:33 PM
Nice to see that we are looking at ways of saving money, making 3 club shop staff redundant

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/08/25/west-brom-make-three-staff-redundant/

I bet that will amount to Austins hair do's for amonth

Yes, it's quite pathetic and depressing. Presuming the club paid them the UK living wage (£9.30 an hour) and they worked full time they would have been on £17k a year, so that's a measly £51,000.00 saved and three people consequently, presumably local and with dependents out of work, in the middle of a recession, particularly in retail. Against the background of income guaranteed over the next four years of £205m - £400m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 25, 2020, 10:55:52 PM
so if 20 players donated £2.5k each, jobs saved. Just saying.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on August 25, 2020, 10:59:38 PM
Yes, it's quite pathetic and depressing. Presuming the club paid them the UK living wage (£9.30 an hour) and they worked full time they would have been on £17k a year, so that's a measly £51,000.00 saved and three people consequently, presumably local and with dependents out of work, in the middle of a recession, particularly in retail. Against the background of income guaranteed over the next four years of £205m - £400m.

Absolutely, it stinks following promotion, they could have stuck £100,000 on the Leko transfer, it would not have collapsed for that amount, it's just petty, mean spirited and very distasteful.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 25, 2020, 11:14:16 PM
Nothing good will come out of this guys ownership. JP done us good and proper in order to make another 30-40m on top of the 100m he would for selling us to investors.

I hope his time here ends sooner rather than later but seems we are stuck with him for the foreseeable.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 25, 2020, 11:45:22 PM
Nothing good will come out of this guys ownership. JP done us good and proper in order to make another 30-40m on top of the 100m he would for selling us to investors.

I hope his time here ends sooner rather than later but seems we are stuck with him for the foreseeable.

Sadly I think you are correct. Remember JP told us he sold the club to Lai so the new owner could take us onto the next level that he could not - blatant BS, fastforward to 2020 and three club shop members are redundant. Meanwhile the loan placed on the club by JP of a circa £4m and inherited by Lai remains outstanding. Stinks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 26, 2020, 06:22:02 AM
Long-winded moan about the boardroom & budget which ultimately Lai signs off on:

Our income which is guaranteed over the next four seasons, excluding player trading and any commercial revenue is circa £205m as follows:

-£100m (2020/21)
-£50m (2021/22, parachute payment)
-£35m (2022/23, parachute payment year 2)
-£20m (2023/24, final year of parachute payments)

Our wage bill at the end of 2018/2019 was £46.8m, that was then reduced further last summer, if you look at the players that went in and out. Factoring in we have now released Brunt and Barry, our wage bill would have shrunk to a circa £40m but then also increased with players on premier league contracts previously going back having their wages doubled, which includes Kanu, Gibbs, Hegazi, Livermore and Phillips. A crude estimate I would expect our current wage bill to be in the region of £60m, possible less than that currently but I am being cautious.

Against that we have £100m income this season give or take. So that's £40m to spend on transfers and wages which fits in with what we know. What is winding me up royally is the refusal of the bean counters to allocate any of the 2021/22 income towards our squad rebuild. We should be using a lot of £50m as well in one huge effort this summer to build a premier league quality team. After all we not looking to sign players for just 12 months, and transfer fees are going to be staggered over years.

The flex up on the wage bill is limited to our income. We usually run around 90% or more. Which means our wage bill ceiling is around £90m. So we should be allocating in my view up to £30m extra on wages (which in perspective is an additional ten players on £50k a week on average, obviously depending on who we sign we sign some would be on more or less, scope to pay £100k a week for a best players) which gets our wage bill up to £90m, which is affordable (less than our wage bill in the PL previously which was £92m-97m under Hodgson and Pulis)

That then leaves the small matter of transfer fees. If we allocate £30m on wages that leaves us just £10m from this years pot of income. Nowhere near enough. Hence why we need to allocate 50% of the parachute money in as well, which is £25m. If we took that approach we would have the punching power to spend £35m on transfer fees and to increase the wage bill by £30m up to £90m. So that's a total of £65m spent this season on fees and wages against our income guaranteed of £205m over the next four years - it's a millions miles away from a Peter Ridsdale approach, i.e. it would not put the club at risk.

That would be enough IMV to build a premier league quality squad again.

Suppose it went wrong and we got relegated. Well our wage bill would halve to £45m due to the relegation clauses we insert in all contracts (which are now common for most PL clubs outside the top six). We would still have £80m guaranteed income up to the end of 2022/23 so enough to self-fund that squad for the first 2 years. Thereafter, if not before we would need to raise £20m to break even by player sales. We would also have a squad with a much higher value having spent more on transfers.

The clubs approach appears to be to only spend this seasons income, which is very short sighted in my view. It's the same reason no sensible person buys a house in one year - you get a mortgage.

Bilic is a qualified lawyer, I suspect he has done the same maths and is banging his head of the table at the boardroom antics.

The bottom line is this year's budget alone is not enough to build a team to compete in the premier league and the failure to build a decent team results in relegation and a massive loss of income - so not only it wrong from a playing side it is also economically stupid.
Great Post, the club should be doing a lot more even based on guaranteed income.Consider also potential income from the sale of Pereira if we capitulate. Potential payment for league placing. We don't have to surrender our place surely?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 26, 2020, 11:55:05 AM
Sadly I think you are correct. Remember JP told us he sold the club to Lai so the new owner could take us onto the next level that he could not - blatant BS, fastforward to 2020 and three club shop members are redundant. Meanwhile the loan placed on the club by JP of a circa £4m and inherited by Lai remains outstanding. Stinks.

JP sold it to him under the guise of it being an secure advancement for the club and the fans lapped it up. He played fans ike a fiddle over the years. Sad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on September 04, 2020, 07:36:50 PM
Exclusive: Lai tipped to loosen WBA purse strings by pundit with new arrival reportedly close

Source: https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2020/09/04/exclusive-lai-tipped-to-loosen-wba-purse-strings-by-pundit-with-new-arrival-reportedly-close/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 04, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
Exclusive: Lai tipped to loosen WBA purse strings by pundit with new arrival reportedly close

Source: https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2020/09/04/exclusive-lai-tipped-to-loosen-wba-purse-strings-by-pundit-with-new-arrival-reportedly-close/
Tipped? Expected? Hoped? Guessed at? Here's an exclusive. "Expat discovers bar offering half priced beer“.  8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on September 11, 2020, 06:22:19 PM
Southampton's owner Gao Jisheng is in talks to sell the club to an American consortium, with one of the Chinese football/business journalists I follow on twitter implying it's another sign of China looking to scale back from their investment in English/European football.

Could be just an isolated case, but it's certainly a "watch this space" with Gouchan Lai, as with us now being a prem club pur stock is probably as high as it's likely to get.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 11, 2020, 06:58:52 PM
Southampton's owner Gao Jisheng is in talks to sell the club to an American consortium, with one of the Chinese football/business journalists I follow on twitter implying it's another sign of China looking to scale back from their investment in English/European football.

Could be just an isolated case, but it's certainly a "watch this space" with Gouchan Lai, as with us now being a prem club pur stock is probably as high as it's likely to get.

This is what I’ve been hoping for since Lai’s takeover was originally announced back in 2016. The age-old ‘be careful what you wish for’ does spring to mind too. Last thing we want is unscrupulous owner(s) looking to make a quick profit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 11, 2020, 08:04:43 PM
This is what I’ve been hoping for since Lai’s takeover was originally announced back in 2016. The age-old ‘be careful what you wish for’ does spring to mind too. Last thing we want is unscrupulous owner(s) looking to make a quick profit.

In the words of Gary Megson, no-one is getting rich off West Bromwich Albion  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 12, 2020, 03:10:52 AM
In the words of Gary Megson, no-one is getting rich off West Bromwich Albion  ;D

Not quite true as JP vastly increased his wealth from us to such an extent that it would be a very long time. Efofe anyone will again which is Lais problem.

He had to kill all hopes and ambitions of the club and its fanbase longterm to do so but boy oh boy was it ever worth it for JP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on September 13, 2020, 08:38:05 AM
Waking up to see the John Percy article yesterday regarding the budget I really have to question why Lai is still the owner of the club looking at it from purely an investment point of view (which we are to him). Clearly there is an unwillingness/ inability to be able to fund the club from his own wealth with the transfer budget coming from what the club generates. Whilst I’m not advocating Lai ploughing millions of his own personal wealth into the transfer budget year after year and then deciding enough is enough leaving us in financial peril (like Lerner did with Villa), if ever there was a time to sensibly invest in your asset especially given the budget has rumoured to have gone to £25m from £40m then this is it.

I know spending money doesn’t guarantee survival but it gives us a better chance of staying up, if we get relegated the clubs value drops around 70% overnight with no certainty of returning. Surely if he bridged the gap in the budget (considering he owes the club £4m also) is the sensible thing to do from his standpoint as if we stay up his asset is still at the highest value it can be and can go back to be self sustaining with another year of premiership money to invest in the team.

If he can’t get the money out of China to do this then he needs to sell now whilst the clubs value is high as there is every chance 3 years down the line we are a mid table championship club and he’s lost the best part of £160 million as the club will be worth £40-£50m tops. He’l still loose money as no-one is paying what he paid for the club as Peace saw him coming a mile off but it’s better to walk away £30m down than £160m down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 13, 2020, 08:58:08 AM
Waking up to see the John Percy article yesterday regarding the budget I really have to question why Lai is still the owner of the club looking at it from purely an investment point of view (which we are to him). Clearly there is an unwillingness/ inability to be able to fund the club from his own wealth with the transfer budget coming from what the club generates. Whilst I’m not advocating Lai ploughing millions of his own personal wealth into the transfer budget year after year and then deciding enough is enough leaving us in financial peril (like Lerner did with Villa), if ever there was a time to sensibly invest in your asset especially given the budget has rumoured to have gone to £25m from £40m then this is it.

I know spending money doesn’t guarantee survival but it gives us a better chance of staying up, if we get relegated the clubs value drops around 70% overnight with no certainty of returning. Surely if he bridged the gap in the budget (considering he owes the club £4m also) is the sensible thing to do from his standpoint as if we stay up his asset is still at the highest value it can be and can go back to be self sustaining with another year of premiership money to invest in the team.

If he can’t get the money out of China to do this then he needs to sell now whilst the clubs value is high as there is every chance 3 years down the line we are a mid table championship club and he’s lost the best part of £160 million as the club will be worth £40-£50m tops. He’l still loose money as no-one is paying what he paid for the club as Peace saw him coming a mile off but it’s better to walk away £30m down than £160m down.

Thanks for posting this. Your post here is much more reasonable and balanced than my attempts when it comes to Guochan Lai. I just find myself getting really irritated about this subject.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2020, 09:10:38 AM
Yes excellent post Baggies 24. The most pointless owner ever.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 13, 2020, 10:06:31 AM
I am potential investor in WBA FC please explain to me how I make money from purchasing the club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 13, 2020, 11:04:30 AM
Only if you can sell it for a profit mate
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 13, 2020, 11:12:08 AM
I am potential investor in WBA FC please explain to me how I make money from the purchasing the club?

I said was saying this when Peace was trying to sell at a reported £200m! A lot of people disagreed with me. Investors should be lining up apparently.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 13, 2020, 12:35:26 PM
I am potential investor in WBA FC please explain to me how I make money from purchasing the club?


Not wishing to be controversial here, just looking for guidance, you do appear to have a handle on the club's finances in the current climate.

In the club accounts for season ending June 2019, there is an entry against creditors for circa £23/24 million which the football club owes to the holding company.
In your opinion, what does that relate to?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 13, 2020, 01:00:08 PM
I am potential investor in WBA FC please explain to me how I make money from purchasing the club?

Only by buying it a discount to what Lai paid for it, as it was overpriced by around 25%.  With the overseas TV rights being possibly worth less now, if you bought for £150m or less you might have a chance of getting a return.  However, with the extremely high risk of relegation and with the Championship finances really taking a nosedive re COVID, you’d realistically not pay any more than £100m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 13, 2020, 02:05:40 PM

Not wishing to be controversial here, just looking for guidance, you do appear to have a handle on the club's finances in the current climate.

In the club accounts for season ending June 2019, there is an entry against creditors for circa £23/24 million which the football club owes to the holding company.
In your opinion, what does that relate to?

My guess is that is money put into the club by the ownership group to cover the operating losses of the last season of the Premier League and the first season in the Championship. It does not seem to be attracting interest so I assume it is not commercial lending.

It rather dwarfs the £4m loan outstanding from the takeover.

Lai is not a terrible owner he just isn't the owner that fans want.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 13, 2020, 03:09:05 PM
My guess is that is money put into the club by the ownership group to cover the operating losses of the last season of the Premier League and the first season in the Championship. It does not seem to be attracting interest so I assume it is not commercial lending.

It rather dwarfs the £4m loan outstanding from the takeover.

Lai is not a terrible owner he just isn't the owner that fans want.
More accurately, he was the buyer Peace had been hoping for. As I see it, Lai’s only way out, is to cut his losses.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 13, 2020, 05:56:56 PM
I am potential investor in WBA FC please explain to me how I make money from purchasing the club?

It would require a fairly substantial initial investment, followed by a period where returns were few and far between, before finally earning big money.

Look at the Dingles. Because Fosun own part of Mendes agency, they make money back on every transfer where they use him. But they also invest in players for the long term, who should make them healthy returns on their investment (Traore, Neves). Once the club starts making big money back on these players, you can reinvest enough on the next long term projects, while also paying a healthy dividend to shareholders (i.e. yourself).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 13, 2020, 06:04:30 PM
LAI OUT!

It starts here...lol.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 13, 2020, 09:49:51 PM
His name is Guochuan Lai - if posts refer to him by his nationality then they’re being removed.

We don’t want it on here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: chipperclark on September 14, 2020, 12:32:43 AM
 ;D Mr Lai  you have to buy a good striker and solid mid-fielder...that will be about  40 million.

If you don't you will lose Slav and maybe 100 mill if we go down. The maths are simple.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on September 14, 2020, 05:53:37 AM
More accurately, he was the buyer Peace had been hoping for. As I see it, Lai’s only way out, is to cut his losses.
Problem is that would result in him losing face which is equivalent to humiliation in China.
Sadly I think we are stuck with him for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on September 14, 2020, 06:15:20 AM
I think a few people on here need to grow up, transition to the Premier League was never going to be easy, blaming anyone on day one of the Premier League season just smacks of a small child throwing their toys around. :-X
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on September 14, 2020, 08:43:27 AM
I think a few people on here need to grow up, transition to the Premier League was never going to be easy, blaming anyone on day one of the Premier League season just smacks of a small child throwing their toys around. :-X

I love this post. So level-headed.

Let's see how the window goes - it's actually been quite good to this point. There is work to be done but if rumours are true...

Ivanovic is as good as signed and boy do we need that experience, Connor Gallagher has "chosen us" as Baggie79 said, Krovi is expected to be done and surely a deal for Grant will eventually be made.

All of that could address the issues seen yesterday.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on September 14, 2020, 08:57:37 AM
I think a few people on here need to grow up, transition to the Premier League was never going to be easy, blaming anyone on day one of the Premier League season just smacks of a small child throwing their toys around. :-X
While there's points of this i agree with i do understand some frustration , Strikers being the obvious one .
If we are to stand any chance those purse strings need to be loose just a bit more than normal .
There are areas that needed fixing last season yet here we are on the biggest stage and its still not done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 14, 2020, 09:02:54 AM
I think a few people on here need to grow up, transition to the Premier League was never going to be easy, blaming anyone on day one of the Premier League season just smacks of a small child throwing their toys around. :-X

Definitely, we have had a reality check, no bad thing !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on September 14, 2020, 09:03:02 AM
;D Mr Lai  you have to buy a good striker and solid mid-fielder...that will be about  40 million.

Sorry to be a pedant but in the far east don't they place the family name first, so we should be addressing our revered owner as Mr Guochan?  (Just asking}
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on September 14, 2020, 09:06:03 AM
As much as I do try and stay level though - and this isn't necessarily Lai's fault - to be in the same striker situation as ever is madness. It's been a glaring weakness for a long time.

Who was the last decent striker we had? Rondon? Who did we replace him with?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on September 14, 2020, 09:10:07 AM
As much as I do try and stay level though - and this isn't necessarily Lai's fault - to be in the same striker situation as ever is madness. It's been a glaring weakness for a long time.

Who was the last decent striker we had? Rondon? Who did we replace him with?!
I think this is the point of anger with many , I like Grant but why won't Dowling look out of the UK for once.
All this talk of structured deals and 50p off vouchers...the club need to get real .

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2020, 10:18:49 AM
Anyone know/remember what the £27m dividend took out in 2016 was for?

The Swiss Ramble are doing footy finance analytics for each club over the last 5 years in the PL
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2020, 10:29:31 AM
If it was jn 2016 also possible it was something to do with Peace perhaps?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on September 14, 2020, 10:45:39 AM
No asking for a 200 million warchest, but at least give us a competitive budget. £25 million is embarrassing for a PL club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 14, 2020, 12:50:24 PM
As much as I do try and stay level though - and this isn't necessarily Lai's fault - to be in the same striker situation as ever is madness. It's been a glaring weakness for a long time.

Who was the last decent striker we had? Rondon? Who did we replace him with?!
I thought Dwight Gayle was quite good.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on September 14, 2020, 12:53:52 PM
I thought Dwight Gayle was quite good.

I'd take him now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 14, 2020, 12:57:19 PM
I'd take him now.

Wish we’d brought him home last season. God damn shame he’s injured and out for the next 3 months at the very least ☹️
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on September 14, 2020, 06:02:34 PM
Not sure if many people on here listen to the Albion Express and Star podcast, but I had the chance to tune in this afternoon and they had an interesting conversation on Lai.

Joe Masi said it is very hard to get much detail as he doesn’t have any links with UK media, but what Masi was told is that yes, he apparently loves football, he supposedly has a lot of football regalia in his office blocks and he allegedly watches our games, but when he bought the club, he did so on the advice that we were an established club who he could sell at a profit a few years later. Whether Masi has got the information right is impossible to say, but Masai’s words were “he bought the club to effectively flip it after a few years”.

Peace sold him a dud it seems.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2020, 06:16:24 PM
What i've been saying all along, he bought the club as a passive investment that would appreciate/increase in value along with time, essentially TV deals. HOwever he was far too passive and took his eyes off the prize and a series of catastrophic decisions from those he appointed below him relegated us.

Now we are back to square one I think he will get out the first chance he can once he's able too as long as he recoups most the money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pelada on September 14, 2020, 06:16:39 PM
I think we’d all feel better if we either saw or heard from the chairman.

No wonder doubts start to creep in- astonishing really.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: glosterbaggie on September 14, 2020, 07:14:47 PM
Bit like buying a new E- class Mercedes and getting it serviced by a back street mechanic who never seen one before!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 14, 2020, 11:32:47 PM
This may come as a surprise to posters but Lai has spent slightly more on buying the Albion to June 2019 than Fosun have spent on Wolves including their initial investment in GestiFute (Jorge Mendes agency) to the same date.

Plainly Lai overpaid for the club and bought into an operating model that was fundamentally broken. It is going to take a long time for Lai and his fellow investors (it is always important to remember it is not just one man here) to extract themselves from this situation.

I will go out on a limb here and I don't think we will have the ownership i.e. munificent billionaire that many fans want. Not in the short term nor in my life time. Sorry to rain on your parade. Lai or someone similar or conceivably a lot worse is what we are looking at forever.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 15, 2020, 12:17:32 AM
This may come as a surprise to posters but Lai has spent slightly more on buying the Albion to June 2019 than Fosun have spent on Wolves including their initial investment in GestiFute (Jorge Mendes agency) to the same date.

Plainly Lai overpaid for the club and bought into an operating model that was fundamentally broken. It is going to take a long time for Lai and his fellow investors (it is always important to remember it is not just one man here) to extract themselves from this situation.

I will go out on a limb here and I don't think we will have the ownership i.e. munificent billionaire that many fans want. Not in the short term nor in my life time. Sorry to rain on your parade. Lai or someone similar or conceivably a lot worse is what we are looking at forever.

Wolves have a net transfer spent on transfer fees alone over the last four years of £179m. Fosun bought wolves for just £45m. They also bought 30% of Mendes agency for £42m. Their investment is probably £100m north of Lai to date but it's like comparing the market street trader with Nike. Fosun are a £10bn investment company. Whereas Lai needed to fall back on others just to raise the capital to buy Peace out. They are in cahoots with Mendes as well who ensures the orange lot get players well below market rate who ordinarily would not step foot in Wolverhampton. The whole set-up stinks. This article here is quite informative: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/soccer-files-fosun/

Botton line is with them lot their previous owners were prepared to sell the club on at a discount for the long term good of the club to an investor. Whereas JP was concerned solely with maximising his own bottom line.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 15, 2020, 07:36:43 AM
Wolves have a net transfer spent on transfer fees alone over the last four years of £179m. Fosun bought wolves for just £45m. They also bought 30% of Mendes agency for £42m. Their investment is probably £100m north of Lai to date but it's like comparing the market street trader with Nike. Fosun are a £10bn investment company. Whereas Lai needed to fall back on others just to raise the capital to buy Peace out. They are in cahoots with Mendes as well who ensures the orange lot get players well below market rate who ordinarily would not step foot in Wolverhampton. The whole set-up stinks. This article here is quite informative: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/soccer-files-fosun/

Botton line is with them lot their previous owners were prepared to sell the club on at a discount for the long term good of the club to an investor. Whereas JP was concerned solely with maximising his own bottom line.

Wolves’ previous owners had already made their wealth.  Peace’s entire wealth was tied up in the club’s shares.  Makes a huge difference.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 15, 2020, 08:42:17 AM
Wolves have a net transfer spent on transfer fees alone over the last four years of £179m. Fosun bought wolves for just £45m. They also bought 30% of Mendes agency for £42m. Their investment is probably £100m north of Lai to date but it's like comparing the market street trader with Nike. Fosun are a £10bn investment company. Whereas Lai needed to fall back on others just to raise the capital to buy Peace out. They are in cahoots with Mendes as well who ensures the orange lot get players well below market rate who ordinarily would not step foot in Wolverhampton. The whole set-up stinks. This article here is quite informative: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/soccer-files-fosun/

Botton line is with them lot their previous owners were prepared to sell the club on at a discount for the long term good of the club to an investor. Whereas JP was concerned solely with maximising his own bottom line.

I read this article at the time and you’re right, the whole thing absolutely stinks.

Here’s another couple of articles which are worth a read:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spiegel.de/international/world/football-leaks-wolverhampton-conflict-of-interest-a-1239829-amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sport360.com/article/football/european/44959/inside-story-how-jorge-mendes-pulls-all-strings-valencia

It’ll all end in tears, that I’m sure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on September 15, 2020, 01:49:14 PM
Wolves have a net transfer spent on transfer fees alone over the last four years of £179m. Fosun bought wolves for just £45m. They also bought 30% of Mendes agency for £42m. Their investment is probably £100m north of Lai to date but it's like comparing the market street trader with Nike. Fosun are a £10bn investment company. Whereas Lai needed to fall back on others just to raise the capital to buy Peace out. They are in cahoots with Mendes as well who ensures the orange lot get players well below market rate who ordinarily would not step foot in Wolverhampton. The whole set-up stinks. This article here is quite informative: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/soccer-files-fosun/

Botton line is with them lot their previous owners were prepared to sell the club on at a discount for the long term good of the club to an investor. Whereas JP was concerned solely with maximising his own bottom line.

On the Canadian coverage of the premier league yesterday they were talking about Neves, Moutinho etc. Andy Townsend said "to get Moutinho from Monaco for less than 5 mill was such an amazing deal, a steal"... Yes it was Andy. Say it after me Jorge Mendes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 15, 2020, 01:50:57 PM
Anyone know who took the 27m divided out the club in 2016??

Sounds like a JP move to me personally but if Lai did it then it reduces what he paid for the club to a more reasonable 150m ish.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 15, 2020, 03:49:16 PM
I thought it was conflict at the Dingles and honestly thought that if they challenged the top 4 there would a massive thing made of it, but it appears no one gives a flying.

So out only hope of it going t its up is a direct edict from xi to get out of English football now, or else.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 15, 2020, 10:56:28 PM
Wolves have a net transfer spent on transfer fees alone over the last four years of £179m. Fosun bought wolves for just £45m. They also bought 30% of Mendes agency for £42m. Their investment is probably £100m north of Lai to date but it's like comparing the market street trader with Nike. Fosun are a £10bn investment company. Whereas Lai needed to fall back on others just to raise the capital to buy Peace out. They are in cahoots with Mendes as well who ensures the orange lot get players well below market rate who ordinarily would not step foot in Wolverhampton. The whole set-up stinks. This article here is quite informative: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/soccer-files-fosun/

Botton line is with them lot their previous owners were prepared to sell the club on at a discount for the long term good of the club to an investor. Whereas JP was concerned solely with maximising his own bottom line.

Wolves previous owner Steve Morgan bought the club from Sir Jack Hayward in 2007 for £10.
Under Morgan they traded at roughly an £11m profit across the 8 years he owned the club hence anything that was spent during his tenure was generated by the clubs normal activities. Net investment zero. Morgan then sold the  newly promoted Championship club to Fosun for £45m. As acts of altruism go that is one of the most profitable I have ever had the good fortune to witness.

To June 2019 Fosun have spent as follows:

Initial purchase price £45m
Loses during 2 seasons in the championship £76m
Profit in 1st season in the Premier League £25m

Net funding including initial purchase price £95m.

In addition Fosun spent 42m euros for a 15% in Gestifute with an option to take that to 35% which valued Mendes agency at about 5 times what they paid for the club. It is important to note that Fosun own the stake in Gestifute not the club. I do not know whether or not they have taken up their option to increase their equity to 35%.

However their initial investment including the stake in Gestifute plus initial funding came to significantly less than Lai and his partners spent on buying The Albion.

IF Fosun was the owners we desire (I don't for what is worth)  it is equally true Lai should and could have done the deal that Fosun did and bought the Dingles in league with the leach Mendes. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 15, 2020, 11:41:46 PM
Lai? Just a ghost. It seems he has no real interest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on September 19, 2020, 02:10:44 PM
Well I hope he’s enjoying today’s performance as much as me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 19, 2020, 02:15:38 PM
I really don't get why this guy owns the club. He puts no money in, he gets no money out (apparently). Like I legitimately don't understand his motivation for owning us (and continuing to do so)

Something to do with leaning on the fact WBA were a Premier League club at the time to build eco towns in China, whatever they are.

Load of old ******** if ask me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 19, 2020, 02:33:04 PM
Tucked up nicely somewhere with the football world passing him by.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 19, 2020, 02:41:00 PM
Invest in playing staff please!!!! Or sod off!!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 19, 2020, 02:44:08 PM
He will lose face if he keeps us. The Chinese don't like to lose face.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiecarl on September 19, 2020, 04:41:49 PM
He will lose face if he keeps us. The Chinese don't like to lose face.
Lai wont be the only one losing face
The Albion fans are acting like its a fete accompli with lai
Do you think the villa or Newcastle fans would put up with this situation with its owners?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on September 19, 2020, 04:44:14 PM
Lai wont be the only one losing face
The Albion fans are acting like its a fete accompli with lai
Do you think the villa or Newcastle fans would put up with this situation with its owners?

What do you propose we do about it, boycott games?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on September 19, 2020, 05:02:33 PM
Lai needs to go West Ham fans want Gold Sulivan & Brady out and the’ve pumped millions into the club, same with Ashley Lai actually owes the club money and won’t put money in. I’m not advocating him pumping hundreds of millions in like Villas owner but Jesus we have a good opportunity here one that’s not garantueed to come back round again, I’d say at the moment there’s a better chance we become a mid table championship club rather than mid-table premier league
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on September 19, 2020, 05:08:07 PM
its the feeling of how pointless this all is, we cant even buy a forward from the Championship we have been after for weeks.  The class of teams in this league is what makes it special, not even trying to compete is just deflating.  We work hard to get promoted and play at this level, knowing how difficult this league is, and then decide to bank on getting relegated. Someone posted on another forum how lucky we are to be financially secure but with no ambition other than to not go bankrupt what does that say to the supporters.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 19, 2020, 08:40:18 PM
I maybe wrong, but didn't someone on here say he loaned the club £27m last season?

If true than surely he realises another big loan may get him the prem tv money next season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 19, 2020, 09:32:07 PM
I maybe wrong, but didn't someone on here say he loaned the club £27m last season?

If true than surely he realises another big loan may get him the prem tv money next season.


No mate Lai has not put a single penny in since buying it.

I said someone took 27m OUT of the club in 2016 as a payment to their holding company in the form of a dividend.

At the time Football finance analysts said the trail in regards to this dividend was complex and would need investigation to find out where it went.

Chris Lepkowski has since stated that it was good old JP. Paid himself 27m just before he sold the club on with another additional 4m debt passed onto Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on September 19, 2020, 09:48:01 PM

No mate Lai has not put a single penny in since buying it.

I said someone took 27m OUT of the club in 2016 as a payment to their holding company in the form of a dividend.

At the time Football finance analysts said the trail in regards to this dividend was complex and would need investigation to find out where it went.

Chris Lepkowski has since stated that it was good old JP. Paid himself 27m just before he sold the club on with another additional 4m debt passed onto Lai.

It was £27 million paid to the holding company, just for accounting purposes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 19, 2020, 09:54:44 PM
Why could the Swiss footy people not find where it went though I wonder.

Edit - Initially Lepkwoski said he remembered the money going out then he has since said JP took it out and paid it to JP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 19, 2020, 10:02:33 PM
Quite right 96.

Lepkowski gfot it wrong.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/01/24/mysterious-27m-cash-transfer-between-west-brom-accounts-explained/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 19, 2020, 10:17:35 PM
Why could the Swiss footy people not find where it went though I wonder.

Edit - Initially Lepkwoski said he remembered the money going out then he has since said JP took it out and paid it to JP.

It was a dividend, therefore it would have been paid to the shareholders, of which JP owned around 80%.

The payment of a £27 million dividend would have reduced the value of the football club by the same amount, so it's likely that the £27 million was part of the payment Lai paid for the club.

Additionally, there is an item in the creditors column of the 2018/19 accounts, where the club owes around £23/24 million to the holding company. Which means that somebody in the holding company has arranged a loan or similar to the football club.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 19, 2020, 11:16:50 PM

No mate Lai has not put a single penny in since buying it.

I said someone took 27m OUT of the club in 2016 as a payment to their holding company in the form of a dividend.

At the time Football finance analysts said the trail in regards to this dividend was complex and would need investigation to find out where it went.

Chris Lepkowski has since stated that it was good old JP. Paid himself 27m just before he sold the club on with another additional 4m debt passed onto Lai.

No, I know about that dividend and had a massive argument with a idiot on another forum who insisted jp did not take it about 18 months ago. I saw it in the accounts when they were released but it was complex but it could only have Peace, and I didn't know until you said that Chris Lep had finally confimerd it.

However, someone else said something about a loan last season, nothing to do with a dividend the bald beagle took.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 19, 2020, 11:19:30 PM
It was a dividend, therefore it would have been paid to the shareholders, of which JP owned around 80%.

The payment of a £27 million dividend would have reduced the value of the football club by the same amount, so it's likely that the £27 million was part of the payment Lai paid for the club.

Additionally, there is an item in the creditors column of the 2018/19 accounts, where the club owes around £23/24 million to the holding company. Which means that somebody in the holding company has arranged a loan or similar to the football club.

This is what I was referring to.

If he or someone has loaned us some before, why not now when if we go down they'll probably have to loan more to us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 19, 2020, 11:51:11 PM
Why do people get so uptight about this?
These are the big boys, with the big bucks ...wether we/you like it or not, they run things, not a poster on here who uses his keyboard to say “invest or bugger off”
Why do so many on here think they have a right to know what is happening ?

Football has changed , it is a business, there is no geting away from it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 20, 2020, 12:05:26 AM
Why do people get so uptight about this?
These are the big boys, with the big bucks ...wether we/you like it or not, they run things, not a poster on here who uses his keyboard to say “invest or bugger off”
Why do so many on here think they have a right to know what is happening ?

Football has changed , it is a business, there is no geting away from it.

So if we are a business, then we are it's customers.

And as the old saying goes, the customer's always right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 20, 2020, 12:39:50 AM
Lepowski is WRONG it is that simple.

The Express & Star Article is correct. The money was part of the cash reserve that was largely squandered by Williams in the last two years of the last Premier League stint. I had  lengthy discussion with Swiss Ramble concerning the inter company transfers but basically WBA Ltd paid a £27m to WBA Group  (12% owned by the minority shareholders) but no dividend was paid by WBA Group nor could it have been without the minority shareholders being also paid and they weren't.

The current ownership have funded losses via owners loans to the tune of £24m. I don't know in which world that is nothing.

So if we are a business, then we are it's customers.

And as the old saying goes, the customer's always right.

The customer is right up until the point that meeting their demands becomes commercially unviable for the most efficient operator in any given market. Thereafter the customers demands go unmet.

I have never understood why football fans think that their clubs should be subsidised by rich people and if they aren't then it is some terrible injustice.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 20, 2020, 01:32:00 AM
Lepowski is WRONG it is that simple.

The Express & Star Article is correct. The money was part of the cash reserve that was largely squandered by Williams in the last two years of the last Premier League stint. I had  lengthy discussion with Swiss Ramble concerning the inter company transfers but basically WBA Ltd paid a £27m to WBA Group  (12% owned by the minority shareholders) but no dividend was paid by WBA Group nor could it have been without the minority shareholders being also paid and they weren't.

The current ownership have funded losses via owners loans to the tune of £24m. I don't know in which world that is nothing.

The customer is right up until the point that meeting their demands becomes commercially unviable for the most efficient operator in any given market. Thereafter the customers demands go unmet.

I have never understood why football fans think that their clubs should be subsidised by rich people and if they aren't then it is some terrible injustice.

 

I was joking about the customer always being right, but as usual it went over your head.

You keep defending owners like peace and why should they do this or that.

You be happy that peace put very little of his own money in and left after screwing as much as he could.

Again, though I have not asked for the owner to put his money in. I said it made no sense loaning us £24m last srsfon because we were in the championship and if he doesn't do it again now, he'll be doing it again next season in the championship again, but without the prem tv money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 20, 2020, 08:21:47 AM
This is what I was referring to.

If he or someone has loaned us some before, why not now when if we go down they'll probably have to loan more to us.

There might have been some input from the owner, we won't know until the accounts come out next year.
The £23/24 million is from the accounts of year ending June 2019, I'm not sure what's happening with accounts for year ending June 2020, & I assume current transactions will be in year ending June 2021.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 20, 2020, 03:36:52 PM
Don't understand the logic of some posters on here, who seem content to let the club tread water. For18 seasons this club has received price money from premier league worth well over a billion pounds.
At the moment it seems obvious without an injection of cash we are odds on to go down, not saying we should do Vile or Fulham. Transfer fee's can be stretched out for four or five seasons, there are ways to stretch your finances.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on September 20, 2020, 03:53:55 PM
Don’t know if anyone is ‘content’ about it, but there is nothing any of us can do about it is there really.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 20, 2020, 03:54:41 PM
Don't understand the logic of some posters on here, who seem content to let the club tread water. For18 seasons this club has received price money from premier league worth well over a billion pounds.
At the moment it seems obvious without an injection of cash we are odds on to go down, not saying we should do Vile or Fulham. Transfer fee's can be stretched out for four or five seasons, there are ways to stretch your finances.
I don’t understand some logic either 🙄
You do of course remember that all that money from the prem coming in....at some point needs to cover wages,transfer fees, agent fees, operational day to day running of the club?
Stretch is an interesting word....once upon a time Portsmouth, Leeds,Bolton...they all made big signings and stretched, Sunderland will tell you all about stretching jack Rodwell across many years .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 20, 2020, 03:55:51 PM
Lepowski is WRONG it is that simple.

The Express & Star Article is correct. The money was part of the cash reserve that was largely squandered by Williams in the last two years of the last Premier League stint. I had  lengthy discussion with Swiss Ramble concerning the inter company transfers but basically WBA Ltd paid a £27m to WBA Group  (12% owned by the minority shareholders) but no dividend was paid by WBA Group nor could it have been without the minority shareholders being also paid and they weren't.

The current ownership have funded losses via owners loans to the tune of £24m. I don't know in which world that is nothing.

The customer is right up until the point that meeting their demands becomes commercially unviable for the most efficient operator in any given market. Thereafter the customers demands go unmet.

I have never understood why football fans think that their clubs should be subsidised by rich people and if they aren't then it is some terrible injustice.

 
You mean the journalist that appears to have had a fallout with wba hierarchy and since then seems quite happy to stir.....and a section of the fans tend to hang in his every word?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: addy on September 20, 2020, 04:23:24 PM
You mean the journalist that appears to have had a fallout with wba hierarchy and since then seems quite happy to stir.....and a section of the fans tend to hang in his every word?

I agree. Definitely a stirrer and has some sort of grudge with the club. I have noticed this a lot.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on September 20, 2020, 04:32:49 PM
I don’t understand some logic either 🙄
You do of course remember that all that money from the prem coming in....at some point needs to cover wages,transfer fees, agent fees, operational day to day running of the club?
Stretch is an interesting word....once upon a time Portsmouth, Leeds,Bolton...they all made big signings and stretched, Sunderland will tell you all about stretching jack Rodwell across many years .

And look at the teams who have spent and done alright.  We clearly aren't a well run club if you think spending a bit of money on the players we obviously need will mean we'll do a Portsmouth.

It really doesn't have to be "spend like City vs don't spend anything".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 20, 2020, 04:41:42 PM
And look at the teams who have spent and done alright.  We clearly aren't a well run club if you think spending a bit of money on the players we obviously need till mean we'll do a Portsmouth.

It really doesn't have to be "spend like City vs don't spend anything".
bloke seems super happy how club is run
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on September 20, 2020, 05:23:38 PM
And look at the teams who have spent and done alright.  We clearly aren't a well run club if you think spending a bit of money on the players we obviously need will mean we'll do a Portsmouth.

It really doesn't have to be "spend like City vs don't spend anything".

Other teams spend because owners put money in, ours doesn’t.

There is nothing at all any of us can do about it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 20, 2020, 05:29:16 PM
bloke seems super happy how club is run
“Bloke” is clever enough to work out that posts on here won’t influence a multi millionaires mandate for how he runs a football club, nor spends time just trying to snipe at every single thing the people in charge of the club do....because sniping without actually putting forward a different way of doing things is actually quite a pathetic look.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 20, 2020, 05:51:13 PM
I keep seeing comments on Twitter, Facebook, etc about how Lai needs to go. But what would happen if he did?

1/ The new owner comes in, spends loads of his own money, and breaches FFP / we end up in debt to him

2/ The new owner comes in, spends loads of somebody else's money, and we end up massively in debt to banks / investment companies

3/ The new owner comes in, says we have to be self-sufficient, and we end up in the same situation we're in now

The only way to move the club forward sustainably, is by generating more cash from off-field activities, and buying players low and selling them high. Peace could have done that, didn't, and all we did was tread water for a few years. We could have bought Lukaku for £18m and sold him for £90m (if we'd had the same deal as Everton), but we didn't. A scout recommended Van Dijk, we didn't listen, and missed out on another massive return.

We're not going to suddenly be drowning in cash even if we do get taken over, so the way forward lies in a better scouting network (one that includes Europe, rather than just the English leagues) and a better technical director who can spot better players, and maximise their potential.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 20, 2020, 06:18:04 PM
I keep seeing comments on Twitter, Facebook, etc about how Lai needs to go. But what would happen if he did?

1/ The new owner comes in, spends loads of his own money, and breaches FFP / we end up in debt to him

2/ The new owner comes in, spends loads of somebody else's money, and we end up massively in debt to banks / investment companies

3/ The new owner comes in, says we have to be self-sufficient, and we end up in the same situation we're in now

The only way to move the club forward sustainably, is by generating more cash from off-field activities, and buying players low and selling them high. Peace could have done that, didn't, and all we did was tread water for a few years. We could have bought Lukaku for £18m and sold him for £90m (if we'd had the same deal as Everton), but we didn't. A scout recommended Van Dijk, we didn't listen, and missed out on another massive return.

We're not going to suddenly be drowning in cash even if we do get taken over, so the way forward lies in a better scouting network (one that includes Europe, rather than just the English leagues) and a better technical director who can spot better players, and maximise their potential.

All the above begins with an owner who is invested in the development of the club and has the interests of the clubs future paramount.

Both the current uninterested owner(s) (who know nothing about our club, it’s history or the demographic in and around the Hawthorn’s) or our previous rapacious hedge fund managing owner have what it takes to push the club forward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 20, 2020, 07:33:11 PM
“Bloke” is clever enough to work out that posts on here won’t influence a multi millionaires mandate for how he runs a football club, nor spends time just trying to snipe at every single thing the people in charge of the club do....because sniping without actually putting forward a different way of doing things is actually quite a pathetic look.
won't take the bait of someone who thinks their opinion is more important than others  :-*
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 20, 2020, 07:50:07 PM
I don’t understand some logic either 🙄
You do of course remember that all that money from the prem coming in....at some point needs to cover wages,transfer fees, agent fees, operational day to day running of the club?
Stretch is an interesting word....once upon a time Portsmouth, Leeds,Bolton...they all made big signings and stretched, Sunderland will tell you all about stretching jack Rodwell across many years .

The vast majority of transfer deals (but all) result in the fee being paid over 2-3 years.  If the buying club has to pay the entire fee at the time of purchase, it is normal to borrow from a bank and so spread the fee that way.  If selling a player in installments but wanting the money more quickly, we “factor” the debt with a bank (usually Macquarie) to receive the money up front at a discount, so that for example when Watford bought Dawson they ended up paying the fee to Macquarie who had advanced us the money.   The balance sheets of clubs each year show how much is owed to/from other clubs.  Bournemouth this year were owed just £5m by other clubs but owed £81m to other clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 20, 2020, 07:54:46 PM
All the above begins with an owner who is invested in the development of the club and has the interests of the clubs future paramount.

Both the current uninterested owner(s) (who know nothing about our club, it’s history or the demographic in and around the Hawthorn’s) or our previous rapacious hedge fund managing owner have what it takes to push the club forward.


Do you seriously think Fosun are interested in the history & demographic of Wolves?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 20, 2020, 08:52:36 PM

Do you seriously think Fosun are interested in the history & demographic of Wolves?

That’s a good question baggiejohn. In short, yes and no.

Since taking over Fosun have been selling the “we belong in the Premier League and Europe” ideal to the Dingle demographic and they lap it up. You see, most of their fan base truly believe WWFC has a divine right to play in the English top tier and Europe. This is because once upon a time 60+ years ago they won the title 3 titles in 10 years and played Honved and Moscow Dynamo under lights at night.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 20, 2020, 09:57:39 PM
That’s a good question baggiejohn. In short, yes and no.

Since taking over Fosun have been selling the “we belong in the Premier League and Europe” ideal to the Dingle demographic and they lap it up. You see, most of their fan base truly believe WWFC has a divine right to play in the English top tier and Europe. This is because once upon a time 60+ years ago they won the title 3 titles in 10 years and played Honved and Moscow Dynamo under lights at night.

Interesting, but where does that sit in making profits on Doherty & Jota?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 20, 2020, 10:00:53 PM
Fosun bought the dings because their business partner mendes told them to as it was cheap and the council ground didn't need updating.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 20, 2020, 10:24:06 PM
Interesting, but where does that sit in making profits on Doherty & Jota?

The Doherty sale is an unusual one because he’s been a consistent performer for the Dingles for some time and scored vital goals here and there. I was surprised they allowed him to leave for only £15million and so quickly too. All I can tell you is both he and Jose Mourinho share the same agent, coincidentally.

I know Diogo Jota has been disgruntled at Wolves since early last season, but again I’m surprised he’s gone to Liverpool. He’s good, but he ain’t that good.

The spin will be the money raised from these sales is being reinvested back into the squad. But I don’t know if it will. Mendes makes large commissions on the buying and selling of players with Fosun getting a 30% kick-back each time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 20, 2020, 10:27:30 PM
Fosun bought the dings because their business partner mendes told them to as it was cheap and the council ground didn't need updating.

Wolverhampton City Council one the land the custard bowl is built upon.

But yes they were definitely purchased on the cheap. 👍🏻
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 21, 2020, 09:24:01 AM
We’ve never had any money to know different - and when we did some cash we spent it all on rubbish.

I’m not sure why some are getting such a fixation with the owners. He’s doing exactly what he said he would.. which is no different to how we’ve operated over the last 30 years..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on September 21, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
When fans of other clubs (Villa and wolves) comment on us being cheap, I point to the fact everything we've ever achieved has been through imagination and creativity not loads of cash so why can't we do it again? Vision, creativity and imagination are what's missing now for us I think. We used to do what Brentford do but much better than them with Dan Ashworth. We've never really replaced this approach since we ripped it up to accomodate Pulis and his huge ego. This is the bigger problem than money/ budget. Our whole approach needs to go back to building teams and a structure with vision and so that it will outlive players and coaches who come and go very frequently...........other clubs who do this (Brighton now funnily enough with Dan Ashworth) are having relative success in not being silly with money and building the club with a clear vision............ good leadership is not all about money or Man U would be top every year.

Painfully, Lai seems to have a fraction of the interest that Peace had in us as a club hence he is not another Peace, we're worse off than under Peace
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 21, 2020, 11:42:51 AM
When fans of other clubs (Villa and wolves) comment on us being cheap, I point to the fact everything we've ever achieved has been through imagination and creativity not loads of cash so why can't we do it again? Vision, creativity and imagination are what's missing now for us I think. We used to do what Brentford do but much better than them with Dan Ashworth. We've never really replaced this approach since we ripped it up to accomodate Pulis and his huge ego. This is the bigger problem than money/ budget. Our whole approach needs to go back to building teams and a structure with vision and so that it will outlive players and coaches who come and go very frequently...........other clubs who do this (Brighton now funnily enough with Dan Ashworth) are having relative success in not being silly with money and building the club with a clear vision............ good leadership is not all about money or Man U would be top every year.

Painfully, Lai seems to have a fraction of the interest that Peace had in us as a club hence he is not another Peace, we're worse off than under Peace

Pulis has been gone for 3 years. Ample time for the club to sort out the scouting and recruitment. They simply havent attempted it and instead of a manager calling all the shots weve now got the DOF version of TP doing it.

Luckily we occasionally get someone in that Slav has identified.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 21, 2020, 11:59:32 AM
Can’t help but feel we’ve gone backwards under this Chinese ownership. Personally, I never wanted them in the first place. I do understand JP had taken the club to his limit and we’d go no further than that under his ownership. I’m just disappointed we’ve ended up with the Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited. I accept it could be much worse, but it could (and I hoped) it would be slightly better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on September 21, 2020, 12:08:22 PM
We've got the only Chinese businessman with no money.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 21, 2020, 12:10:58 PM
The Doherty sale is an unusual one because he’s been a consistent performer for the Dingles for some time and scored vital goals here and there. I was surprised they allowed him to leave for only £15million and so quickly too. All I can tell you is both he and Jose Mourinho share the same agent, coincidentally.

I know Diogo Jota has been disgruntled at Wolves since early last season, but again I’m surprised he’s gone to Liverpool. He’s good, but he ain’t that good.

The spin will be the money raised from these sales is being reinvested back into the squad. But I don’t know if it will. Mendes makes large commissions on the buying and selling of players with Fosun getting a 30% kick-back each time.

Fosun are suffering heavily on the financial front.  They had foreign currency reserves which enabled them to pump money into Wolves but that evaporated when Thomas Cook went under.  That means they have to try to get foreign currency out of China, and they are struggling, not least because they have already had issues on that front with the Chinese government.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on September 21, 2020, 12:14:24 PM
Pulis has been gone for 3 years. Ample time for the club to sort out the scouting and recruitment. They simply havent attempted it and instead of a manager calling all the shots weve now got the DOF version of TP doing it.

Luckily we occasionally get someone in that Slav has identified.

Exactly, the main failing of Lai's tenure is not building anything.  Often standing still is going backwards as we're seeing now. We're where we were in 2002 looking to yo yo until someone with a plan comes along (as Peaces moneyball approach with ashworth).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 21, 2020, 12:23:38 PM
Forget the investment of lack of as multiple people have said its his complete lack of interest or development on any level that's raising people's ire. It's not hard to understand.


Yes we know it's his club and he can do what he likes before you lot chip in but most fans want their club to advance. Not everyone is content to tread water which in the football world is moving backwards.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 09:10:56 PM
Chris Lewpowski has an interesting nugget on his latest podcast with Adrian Goldberg today. He said that his sources have told him that Lai took out a personal nine figure loan to fund the purchase of the club. That Lai borrowed at least £100m to help fund the purchase from an unknown financier or bank which must be Chinese. That is going to need repaying at some point by Lai. It shouldn't directly affect the club unless he starts taking money out save for if he can't repay the loan the financier will be able to call in the debt and take the club over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 21, 2020, 09:19:52 PM
Chris Lewpowski has an interesting nugget on his latest podcast with Adrian Goldberg today. He said that his sources have told him that Lai took out a personal nine figure loan to fund the purchase of the club. That Lai borrowed at least £100m to help fund the purchase from an unknown financier or bank which must be Chinese. That is going to need repaying at some point by Lai. It shouldn't directly affect the club unless he starts taking money out save for if he can't repay the loan the financier will be able to call in the debt and take the club over.

I have been saying this for ages. Money was very cheap to borrow when purchased us, it isn't now.

Let's hope if he defaults the person who ends up owning us has more interest and can invest more. More likely though is it will be a bank who will then sell us for pennies on yuan.

If Peace really gave a toss for us he wouldn't have sold to someone who was so highly leveraged. Peace is the worse thing ever happened to us not Lai. He built nothing and took everything and sold to numpty who probably didn't even know we could get relegated and thought it was like the nfl.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on September 21, 2020, 10:04:50 PM
I have been saying this for ages. Money was very cheap to borrow when purchased us, it isn't now.

Let's hope if he defaults the person who ends up owning us has more interest and can invest more. More likely though is it will be a bank who will then sell us for pennies on yuan.

If Peace really gave a toss for us he wouldn't have sold to someone who was so highly leveraged. Peace is the worse thing ever happened to us not Lai. He built nothing and took everything and sold to numpty who probably didn't even know we could get relegated and thought it was like the nfl.

To say Peace built nothing is rubbish mate, he completely changed the club on the field and off whether as people say that was for his personal gain or not. Whatever you think we still had our most successful period for 30-35 years under peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 21, 2020, 10:18:13 PM
Chris Lewpowski has an interesting nugget on his latest podcast with Adrian Goldberg today. He said that his sources have told him that Lai took out a personal nine figure loan to fund the purchase of the club. That Lai borrowed at least £100m to help fund the purchase from an unknown financier or bank which must be Chinese. That is going to need repaying at some point by Lai. It shouldn't directly affect the club unless he starts taking money out save for if he can't repay the loan the financier will be able to call in the debt and take the club over.


I don't really follow Lewpowski, so I haven't really formed an opinion when it has been suggested he seems to have a grudge against the club now.

However I'd be inclined to believe it if he is spouting stuff like that. What global bank is giving out 9 figure personal loans, especially to buy a football club that had a reasonable chance of relegation?

The is probably only a few handfuls of people on the planet you'd consider loaning that sort of money too, and they wouldn't need it. 

This is before you question rwho CL knows that is either that close to Lai, or close to Chinese banking. There is such limited personal info on him and his company, I can't see how his personal stuff would be so public.

He might have loaned 9 figures in Yuan, but that's a completely different amount to imply.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 10:24:18 PM
It’s not far fetched for Chinese billionaires to persuade a Chinese investment fund or bank to lend £100m. You have property developers across the UK who borrow several times that every year. Lewpowski wasn’t trying to run the club down, listening to his podcast he comes across as honest and a fan. I don’t detect any agenda. He didn’t criticise the funding / loan of Lai, just made the point that if reinforces the message that he’s not putting any money into the club. He also said that pre-covid Lai was looking for outside investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 21, 2020, 10:26:27 PM
It’s not far fetched for Chinese billionaires to persuade a Chinese investment fund or bank to lend £100m. You have property developers across the UK who borrow several times that every year. Lewpowski wasn’t trying to run the club down, listening to his podcast he comes across as honest and a fan. I don’t detect any agenda. He didn’t criticise the funding / loan of Lai, just made the point that if reinforces the message that he’s not putting any money into the club. He also said that pre-covid Lai was looking for outside investment.

You are describing private  equity financing. Completely different to a personal loan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 21, 2020, 10:54:12 PM
To say Peace built nothing is rubbish mate, he completely changed the club on the field and off whether as people say that was for his personal gain or not. Whatever you think we still had our most successful period for 30-35 years under peace.

The clubs fortunes began to change when Paul Thompson became chairman.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 21, 2020, 10:56:45 PM
Paul Thompson and Gary Megson for me started our turnaround. Peace then saw a fantastic money making opportunity for himself and made a power play when they all fell out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on September 21, 2020, 11:05:58 PM
Thompson and Megson certainly did start the turn around, but we were finishing in the top half of the premierleague 15 years after Thompson left, he either built one hell of a legacy or Peace did something right.

Thompson announce that he was leaving in May 2002, if you don’t think this club changed on and off the pitch dramatically since then well I don’t really know what to say.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 11:12:20 PM
You are describing private  equity financing. Completely different to a personal loan.

I'm aware of that, Lai certainly wasn't acting as you or I would walking into Barclays. Lewpowski didn't say anymore than he has been told by sources that Lai borrowed a nine figure sum in sterling, so at least £100m to help part fund the purchase.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 21, 2020, 11:36:26 PM
To say Peace built nothing is rubbish mate, he completely changed the club on the field and off whether as people say that was for his personal gain or not. Whatever you think we still had our most successful period for 30-35 years under peace.

You're right, I was wrong peace put in a lot of his own money and didn't create scheme after scheme to force small life long wba fans of their shared.

Our 16 year stay out of the top tier wasn't started by the very capable businessman Paul Thompson who definitely couldn't have done the same as JP, as it takes a true genius to use club generated money to employ people to scout players and employ great managers like Alan Irvine and pepe Mel and yo yo for years.

I particularly admire the old squad he left on the field and off it the magnificent new two tier Jeremy Peace stand.

Cannot wait to get a season ticket in top tier of that.

Heck, I will even be the first to contribute to a build a jp statue.

I true Albion legend is our jezza and did wionders for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 21, 2020, 11:42:02 PM

I don't really follow Lewpowski, so I haven't really formed an opinion when it has been suggested he seems to have a grudge against the club now.

However I'd be inclined to believe it if he is spouting stuff like that. What global bank is giving out 9 figure personal loans, especially to buy a football club that had a reasonable chance of relegation?

The is probably only a few handfuls of people on the planet you'd consider loaning that sort of money too, and they wouldn't need it. 

This is before you question rwho CL knows that is either that close to Lai, or close to Chinese banking. There is such limited personal info on him and his company, I can't see how his personal stuff would be so public.

He might have loaned 9 figures in Yuan, but that's a completely different amount to imply.


Now that's an interesting observation, isn't 9 figures in Yuan around 8 figures in pounds sterling?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 21, 2020, 11:52:46 PM
Yes 100m Yuan is about 11m quid
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on September 22, 2020, 12:23:54 PM
I always find it interesting, no one fully or really knows our finances yet people keep saying Lai should just "loosen" the purse strings for the sake of risk and reward.

Imagine I walked into your home and said, extend this kitchen it will cost you 20-30k but the risk/reward is maybe in 2/3 years your house would be worth 80-100k more (random figures). Just "loosen" your purse strings. You'd quite possibly tell me as good as that sounds you just can't afford or fund that right now (or just F off). Fair does.

If the money isn't there, the money isn't there. Even for a football club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 22, 2020, 12:40:05 PM
I'm aware of that, Lai certainly wasn't acting as you or I would walking into Barclays. Lewpowski didn't say anymore than he has been told by sources that Lai borrowed a nine figure sum in sterling, so at least £100m to help part fund the purchase.

You said CL said personal loan not me. We’ve always know they was some form of equity financing / investment group as Lai is the controlling shareholder and director of private investment firm Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 22, 2020, 01:26:28 PM

Now that's an interesting observation, isn't 9 figures in Yuan around 8 figures in pounds sterling?

roughly 8 RMB (yuan)to a quid
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 22, 2020, 01:48:24 PM
You said CL said personal loan not me. We’ve always know they was some form of equity financing / investment group as Lai is the controlling shareholder and director of private investment firm Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited.

I listened to the podcast, & it's pretty much a "friend of a friend" told me, I'm not sure there's any substance to it at all.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 22, 2020, 02:00:15 PM
I always find it interesting, no one fully or really knows our finances yet people keep saying Lai should just "loosen" the purse strings for the sake of risk and reward.

Our accounts are published every year which include the wage bill, income and outgoings and detail the future payments due in and out. We know the players have flex-up and flex-down clauses on their salaries. We also know what our income in, even more accurately than usual for this season as it's limited to TV revenue. There is more than enough evidence to have a sensible discussion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Webby on September 22, 2020, 05:46:43 PM
Our accounts are published every year which include the wage bill, income and outgoings and detail the future payments due in and out. We know the players have flex-up and flex-down clauses on their salaries. We also know what our income in, even more accurately than usual for this season as it's limited to TV revenue. There is more than enough evidence to have a sensible discussion.

True but without having those books up to date and sat in front of you we don’t 100% know so we’re still a best guess.

My guess would be if the money was there and an opportunity to spend it to ensure potentially more re sale value of the club then it would be taken
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on September 22, 2020, 05:52:43 PM
I always find it interesting, no one fully or really knows our finances yet people keep saying Lai should just "loosen" the purse strings for the sake of risk and reward.

Imagine I walked into your home and said, extend this kitchen it will cost you 20-30k but the risk/reward is maybe in 2/3 years your house would be worth 80-100k more (random figures). Just "loosen" your purse strings. You'd quite possibly tell me as good as that sounds you just can't afford or fund that right now (or just F off). Fair does.

If the money isn't there, the money isn't there. Even for a football club.

Love this explanation. Simple and should get through to the feeble minded.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 22, 2020, 06:14:26 PM
I listened to the podcast, & it's pretty much a "friend of a friend" told me, I'm not sure there's any substance to it at all.

Journalists don’t reveal their sources. It’s an unwritten conduct code in their industry.

I’d expect Chris Lepkowski to be vague as to where the information came from.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 22, 2020, 07:02:27 PM
You said CL said personal loan not me. We’ve always know they was some form of equity financing / investment group as Lai is the controlling shareholder and director of private investment firm Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited.

By personal loan I meant he had financed the debt himself, i.e. it is not not on the clubs accounts, the club isn't on hook to pay it back, Lai is. I wasn't referring to the way he had done it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 22, 2020, 10:32:41 PM
imagine that you developed a problem with your roof on a property you aquirred 2 years ago.
You purchased it for 200,000 pounds but you've been tiold that if you dont spend 20,000 pound.fixing the problemt , then your investment wont be worth the proverbial Tommy Tank...that should be the analagy

I'd imagine a classic (talking) steam engine in pale blue would be worth a pretty penny to be fair...  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 22, 2020, 11:00:19 PM
We have bloke in charge who doesn't seem to look at his investment.
I have investments, but I do monitor them, and adjust when I feel they are not performing...Ditch, move, and reinvest where necessary.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 23, 2020, 12:54:59 AM
Chinese might be paying us back for was it John Trewicks remarks about the Great Wall, quote when you've seen one wall you've seen them all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on September 23, 2020, 11:11:28 AM
https://fortune.com/2020/09/23/investors-european-football-sports-teams/

Interesting Article

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on October 05, 2020, 04:17:23 PM
genuinely don't think Lai will ever put any money into the club.

however he will never find a buyer to pay him what he paid for the club and in chinese culture for him to sell at a loss would be very bad.

so we are stuck in limbo with a squad that isn't good enough, a wage bill so high we can't move any out to get any in easily, and an owner we are stuck with.

it's going to be a very depressing ride the next few years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 05, 2020, 04:19:43 PM
He's only going to drive the value of the club down by not investing unless he's hoping to hold us for multiple decades and let inflation bring it back up in paper value but who knows where and what league we would be in by then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 05, 2020, 04:26:04 PM
We have bloke in charge who doesn't seem to look at his investment.
I have investments, but I do monitor them, and adjust when I feel they are not performing...Ditch, move, and reinvest where necessary.

Selling an unlisted club as a private company isn’t quite the same as selling totally liquid listed investments in a share portfolio.  Finding a buyer of football clubs is hard enough at the best of times.  And due to COVID this is not the best of times!   He paid too much to buy us which is a big part of the problem.  Peace sold at the top market (and then some).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 05, 2020, 05:13:37 PM
He's only going to drive the value of the club down by not investing unless he's hoping to hold us for multiple decades and let inflation bring it back up in paper value but who knows where and what league we would be in by then.
Again, I agree with you.
As I said in another thhread.
You can't stand still in business. You have to invest to be able to grow and go forward.
In a nutshell....
No investment will become a no business left.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on October 06, 2020, 09:25:47 AM
He seems the worst kind of owner, passive, cold and uninterested.  It's probably a good job fans aren't in the ground as I could see much more anger directed at him at the moment which obviously wouldn't matter as he's the other side of the World, aloof from the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on October 06, 2020, 09:28:35 AM
He's done exactly what he said he was. It was only ever a marketing exercise for Lai and the Palm group.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on October 06, 2020, 09:39:24 AM
He's done exactly what he said he was. It was only ever a marketing exercise for Lai and the Palm group.


Exactly. He has actually stuck to his word whether we like the outcome of not. It's not like he came in stating Champions League football in 5 years and that hogwash.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 06, 2020, 09:42:29 AM
Emotions aside and truth be told it's not even the lack of investment that gets me down it's the lack of interest he has.

We are so skint in part due to the constant bad decisions, bad signings and money being frittered away left right and centre. Bad appointments in terms of managers/board/directors etc.

No owner ever gets everything right but flip me this guys completely hands off approach gets nearly everything wrong.

If you take your eyes off the prize it's likely to slip away from you whether it be quickly or slowly. Now his toys in a lot worse condition than he paid for it he wants it sold but having a Titty baby fit that no one will pay him what he paid for his now malfunctioning toy.

Everyone says it's not his fault, he pays people to run the club for him and they are doing a rubbish job and its Lai's responsibility to take action but again he's so removed from the club he let's everything slide so ultimately it his fault in my eyes.

I've no love for Jeremy Peace and he's not Corberan but half the nonsense that's gone on under Lai's 'watch' (if you can call it that) would not have gone down under Peace because it was JPs investment. If you want something out of an investment you nurture it and help it grow.

Blokes got himself into trouble and only got himself to blame. Sadly for us that means bad news for our club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on October 06, 2020, 09:47:41 AM
Emotions aside and truth be told it's not even the lack of investment that gets me down it's the lack of interest he has.

We are so skint in part due to the constant bad decisions, bad signings and money being frittered away left right and centre. Bad appointments in terms of managers/board/directors etc.

No owner ever gets everything right but flip me this guys completely hands off approach gets nearly everything wrong.

If you take your eyes off the prize it's likely to slip away from you whether it be quickly or slowly. Now his toys in a lot worse condition than he paid for it he wants it sold but having a Titty baby fit that no one will pay him what he paid for his now malfunctioning toy.

Everyone says it's not his fault, he pays people to run the club for him and they are doing a rubbish job and its Lai's responsibility to take action but again he's so removed from the club he let's everything slide so ultimately it his fault in my eyes.

I've no love for Jeremy Peace and he's not Corberan but half the nonsense that's gone on under Lai's 'watch' (if you can call it that) would not have gone down under Peace because it was JPs investment. If you want something out of an investment you nurture it and help it grow.

Blokes got himself into trouble and only got himself to blame. Sadly for us that means bad news for our club.

If as owner he and the chairman have set the budget for this summer at around £25m and Bilic and Dowling have gone out and spent most of it on one player then I'm afraid the blame lies with those responsible for recruiting players and not with those setting the budget.

Lai couldn't give two ***** about the Albion and we wont be competitive until we have an owner willing to pump £150m a year in... and even then we wont get that close to winning anything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 06, 2020, 09:56:58 AM
Exactly. The people he hires are rubbish. He needs to change them but doesnt.

That's on him however far down the line you want to take it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on October 06, 2020, 09:57:31 AM
Exactly. The people he hires are rubbish. He needs to change them but doesnt.

That's on him however far down the line you want to take it.

I'm including Bilic and especially Dowling in that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Astle1968 on October 06, 2020, 10:20:32 AM
I don't actually have a huge issue with Lai. My only real concern is that he doesn't really seem to care or be bothered about the club and I'd prefer a more hands on owner like Peace. However I'd much rather him leave the running of the club to others rather than try to interfere, especially from afar. Off the top of my head theres at least half a dozen other owners in the league I'd like less than Lai. For example I'm sure Fulham fans are buzzing this morning, but I'd take Lai over that clown any day.

Again, possibly not a popular opinion (especially the way the game is going) but I've never been bothered about an owner investing his own funds in to the club. As long as the club spends the money it self generates sensibly then I'm happy enough. If we have £40m to spend I'd be just an angry if we spent £80m as I would if we spent £20m.

More of an issue for me is how we go about our business. I still believe (possibly naively) that clubs can self generate their own funds and run without a billionaire throwing money around and can still compete in the PL. However it's borderline farcical that we have such a limited budget, but yet shop almost exclusively in the most expensive market in world football.

Whilst we will never be a top 8 side running like we are at the moment theres no reason why we couldn't be a solid mid table team. However to do this we would need to sign good youngish players from cheaper markets, develop them for 2/3 years and then sell on at a huge price before reinvesting. I know some fans think talk like this is negative and as we are the mighty Albion we shouldn't be talking about selling players but ultimately thats the best model for us long term. If you look at all the players we have signed in the last few years then theres only really Pereira, Diangana, Furlong, Ajayi and Kipre who even have the potential to be sold on for a profit.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on October 06, 2020, 11:00:11 AM
If as owner he and the chairman have set the budget for this summer at around £25m and Bilic and Dowling have gone out and spent most of it on one player then I'm afraid the blame lies with those responsible for recruiting players and not with those setting the budget.

I don't buy that really.  That £18m has a lot of future value regardless of this season - 1 of 3 things will happen. 

1) He'll either be crutial in us staying up, in which case that money was well spent. 
2) If we go down we'll could keep him and have one of the best players in the Championship, important for a promotion push.
3) If we will sell him, we'll most likely get at least our money back if not more, worst case £10-£15m.  His value isn't going to crash to zero.

So that £18m isn't really like having £25m and only having £7m left.  It's more like buying a asset that will retain, if not increase in value.  It's about cash flow and that shouldn't be an issue to a 'well run' club with the Prem money behind us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on October 06, 2020, 11:08:55 AM
I don't buy that really.  That £18m has a lot of future value regardless of this season - 1 of 3 things will happen. 

1) He'll either be crutial in us staying up, in which case that money was well spent. 
2) If we go down we'll could keep him and have one of the best players in the Championship, important for a promotion push.
3) If we will sell him, we'll most likely get at least our money back if not more, worst case £10-£15m.  His value isn't going to crash to zero.

So that £18m isn't really like having £25m and only having £7m left.  It's more like buying a asset that will retain, if not increase in value.  It's about cash flow and that shouldn't be an issue to a 'well run' club with the Prem money behind us.

I agree that it was a deal that needed to be made if possible purely for the resale value. Dowling knows Lai isn't putting a penny in himself, so it makes sense to try and generate some cash through transfers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on October 06, 2020, 11:16:47 AM
I agree that it was a deal that needed to be made if possible purely for the resale value. Dowling knows Lai isn't putting a penny in himself, so it makes sense to try and generate some cash through transfers.

Yeah.  I agree to that - it's just that I don't see the point really if we're happy to blow the chance we've currently got.  If we went down, sold our best assets, somehow assembled a team that came straight back up - are we in a better position than this year?  Or will we just do the same again? 

Basically, I can't see what our long term plan is if that plan involves steadying ourselves in the Premiership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on October 06, 2020, 11:22:20 AM
Yeah.  I agree to that - it's just that I don't see the point really if we're happy to blow the chance we've currently got.  If we went down, sold our best assets, somehow assembled a team that came straight back up - are we in a better position than this year?  Or will we just do the same again? 

Basically, I can't see what our long term plan is if that plan involves steadying ourselves in the Premiership.

We make a profit from yo-yoing. Lai may well be happy to keep collecting promotion bonus followed by parachute payments.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on October 06, 2020, 11:51:27 AM
Does Lai make money from the club??
I may be really simplifying things, as I'm not up on football finance, but, if he makes £30m for 7 seasons, without putting anything in, then hasn't he made a profit on his investment?

If not, then I still have no clue what his motivation was in buying us in the first place, and over the pages and pages on this thread, I don't think anyone has categorically answered that question.

If he puts nothing in, takes nothing out then hasn't he just chucked £180m at something he has no interest in?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on October 06, 2020, 12:06:30 PM
don't suppose there's another free beer going is there
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Astle1968 on October 06, 2020, 12:40:51 PM
Does Lai make money from the club??
I may be really simplifying things, as I'm not up on football finance, but, if he makes £30m for 7 seasons, without putting anything in, then hasn't he made a profit on his investment?

If not, then I still have no clue what his motivation was in buying us in the first place, and over the pages and pages on this thread, I don't think anyone has categorically answered that question.

If he puts nothing in, takes nothing out then hasn't he just chucked £180m at something he has no interest in?

Finances in football don't really interest me so I could be completely wrong on this but...

I think at the time he was looking to buy the club the Chinese government were actively encouraging wealthy people like Lai to invest in football, both in China and overseas. Lai probably hoped to make some money over time by owning Albion, but probably in the short/medium term would make just as much through his other businesses with the extra political power/favour that came with owning us and the doors owning a club can open.

Then shortly after the takeover the Chinese government did a 180 turnaround and tightened the rules on Chinese clubs spending fortunes on overseas players, and also on nationals investing overseas. However I think the initial investment in Albion was probably at least 50/50 made between football reasons and political ones, and in reality probably skewed higher towards the non footballing reasons.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Astle1968 on October 06, 2020, 12:49:44 PM
Finances in football don't really interest me so I could be completely wrong on this but...

I think at the time he was looking to buy the club the Chinese government were actively encouraging wealthy people like Lai to invest in football, both in China and overseas. Lai probably hoped to make some money over time by owning Albion, but probably in the short/medium term would make just as much through his other businesses with the extra political power/favour that came with owning us and the doors owning a club can open.

Then shortly after the takeover the Chinese government did a 180 turnaround and tightened the rules on Chinese clubs spending fortunes on overseas players, and also on nationals investing overseas. However I think the initial investment in Albion was probably at least 50/50 made between football reasons and political ones, and in reality probably skewed higher towards the non footballing reasons.

Quick google

https://intelligence.globalsportsjobs.com/why-the-chinese-invest-in-european-football-

https://offthepitch.com/a/football-being-used-further-chinese-interest-uk-infrastructure

Few lines

'Most Chinese investors have not simply sought to involve themselves in football because of their love of the game. Rather they are using their position to vigorously market their own products'

'Of all sports, football became the key driver. Almost certainly this was due to three major factors. Firstly, it was essential, politically, economically, culturally, and patriotically, to be involved in sports – China’s 13 th five-year plan had made that plain. Secondly, football is the passion of President Xi Jinping and many Chinese billionaires saw the political advantages that association with football might provide. Thirdly, football is the most watched game in the world, making up more than 40 per cent of profits in the entire sports industry. To ignore football was to ignore a large part of the sporting world.'

'It also reported that railway construction is seen as a priority sector by the Chinese government in its bid to increase sales abroad and to extend its “Belt and Road Initiative” deeper into Europe.
One of the main hubs of the HS2-network is the West Midlands, where Birmingham in particular will play a significant role. Wolverhampton, where former HS2-contractor Carillon had its headquarters, also lies in the West Midlands. From a football perspective it then becomes interesting to note that three of the six clubs in the Premier League and Championship that have significant Chinese ownership - Wolverhampton, Birmingham and West Bromwich Albion - all lie in the Birmingham area.'
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on October 06, 2020, 01:08:38 PM
I’m struggling to see what the future holds to be honest, it looks like we may both just be stuck with eachother.

One worrying thing is, and I know I’m looking seasons ahead is that if we get relegated and don’t come up within 2 years it will go back to what the 90s were like I think. It is impossible really to be self sufficient in the championship without parachute payments and compete.

Look at reading for instance, they are spending something like 170% of their turnover on wages. So even teams like that will be paying millions more in wages than us if we don’t receive parachute payments as we won’t (and rightly so) be spending money we haven’t got.

Only thing that could help us is if a rule is brought in like you can only spend 60-70% of your turnover on wages
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 06, 2020, 03:31:54 PM
Does he want us to go out on the streets with a begging bowl?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie38 on October 06, 2020, 03:47:13 PM
Say all you want about peace the bloke was hands on I've been told by many he knew everyone's name and everyone's role at the club. Lai probably doesn't know how the club runs day to day and he never will. Sooner he leaves the better off we will be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on October 06, 2020, 03:54:46 PM
Trouble is its all guesswork on our part, because Lai doesn't communicate very well, or even at all. His deputy on the board "Ken", even less. Maybe that tells its own story.
It points to these people not being very knowledgable about football.  As I've said elsewhere, football is not just another industry, like running a carpet business.  It has its own rules and it helps if the owner knows something about the leagues, the players and the ins and outs of a footballclub on a day to day basis.

That's why I preferred JP as the main man (in spite of appointing Pulis). At least he was a fan with an affinity with the area and its people. I think its a pity Jenkins has stepped back as he has genuine business experience of running the club, but at least good to know he still seems available for advice albeit without any of the responsibilities. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on October 06, 2020, 04:06:19 PM
I agree fully with Baggie38, no matter what opinion you have of Peace, he genuinely tried to find ways to progress us within a tight budget and he did this significantly over the years. Lai on the other hand seems to have no clue, no interest and no money - the worst combination possible. The sooner he's out of the club the better probably for him too not just us.

For some reason, our recent 'football strategy' has also meant we're shopping in an expensive market with pennies, letting promising young players go for little after letting them sign shorter contracts. If you have a small budget, why not at least try to be  a bit creative e.g. set up a scouting network or relationships to make use of cheaper markets in Eastern Europe, Portugal or wherever they are these days to either make a profit or develop a squad as many teams are doing. In the past couple of years alone, we've seen players bought by others who've gone on to develop very well but in the same period we've stuck to GB and ROI players who are overpriced - is this Dowling/ Jenkins or Lai (not sure Lai has any idea so I think I know the answer)?

Anyway, this will be a circular argument until Lai accepts a loss and sells us on or unless he decides to employ a Dan Ashworth who has a vision...............
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 06, 2020, 04:32:53 PM
I’m struggling to see what the future holds to be honest, it looks like we may both just be stuck with each other.

One worrying thing is, and I know I’m looking seasons ahead is that if we get relegated and don’t come up within 2 years it will go back to what the 90s were like I think. It is impossible really to be self sufficient in the championship without parachute payments and compete.

Look at reading for instance, they are spending something like 170% of their turnover on wages. So even teams like that will be paying millions more in wages than us if we don’t receive parachute payments as we won’t (and rightly so) be spending money we haven’t got.

Only thing that could help us is if a rule is brought in like you can only spend 60-70% of your turnover on wages

I tend to agree that we are pretty much stuck with each other. I just hope we don't end up in a situation like Hull City.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on October 06, 2020, 04:36:05 PM
I would imagine with Lai losing a big chunk of his investment when we were relegated, Dowlings remit was get us promoted within 3 seasons or you will be out of a job.

Lai would look at it that he has taken one big hit when we went down, if not back in three years his investment goes down the pan, he made it clear he wasnt going to be pumping extra money in and we would be self sustainable but i doubt he envisaged a club who had been in the premier league without too much trouble for 7 seasons would then implode and be relegated in the 8th and he would lose a lot of his initial outlay.

So i have sympathy with Dowling, he would be under huge pressure to of got the manager and players to be promoted within that three years, he did it after two, now we are there it would seem with the lack of a good budget, maybe the goal posts have been moved due to covid or other factors, or Lai wants to ringfence some of the premier league income so he has something if he ever wants to pay himself a divided.

As for Dowling, if you know you have to be promoted within a few seasons, else the club loses its value and everyday people lose jobs they rely on, you have to think about the here and now.

Thats why i think Dowling has gone British, of course some havent worked out and there are better bargains overseas, but you remove the immediate risk of not being upto speed, language, settling in, etc its a short term fix but it got the result because we got promoted.

Unfortunately with an owner who isnt going to dip into his own pocket if things get tough and who has said its being run as a business, you have to adopt the lowest risk strategy going and for Dowling that mean British players, he cant be signing players that might take a few years to come good.

I would hope during the last two seasons though that we have been setting up a good overseas scouting network so ideally we can bring bargains over and let them have time to settle in whilst also getting ready made players too, the success we have had so far are / will be still expensive, Pereira for £8m and Krov would be at least £6m i imagine, they are both good players and certainly Pereira i would think if we sold him we would make a big money but we havent quite uncovered another Mulumbu, Olsson, Odemwingie, Yacob, so i hope thats an additional path we are going down moving forward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on October 06, 2020, 05:11:31 PM
I would imagine with Lai losing a big chunk of his investment when we were relegated, Dowlings remit was get us promoted within 3 seasons or you will be out of a job.
Having achieved that, how is it then protecting Lai's investment to just go straight back down again with a whimper, as our lack of transfer activity makes it much more likely that we'll do? There are no guarantees that another promotion from the Championship is readily achievable, even whilst we've got parachute money, and we could easily have blown it entirely last season.

It's a sorry state of affairs that we're in this position now, given that we spent 8 seasons in the top flight. That should have been sufficient for us to become established there with shrewd investment, appointments and signings. Instead we've had none of the first and precious little of the others.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 06, 2020, 05:17:00 PM
Lai hasn't got the money to invest, plain and simple.

Easy, cheap loans have dried up in China, and any attempt he made to attract an investor has obviously failed.

I don't believe for a second his advisors and our hierarchy at the club have told him now was the time to invest in players as covid has reduced prices for level of player significantly.

The fact Brewster went for "only" £23m plus adds when the same club wasted a similar amount on McBurnie last summer says it all about prices.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 06, 2020, 05:24:28 PM
Lai hasn't got the money to invest, plain and simple.

Easy, cheap loans have dried up in China, and any attempt he made to attract an investor has obviously failed.

I don't believe for a second his advisors and our hierarchy at the club have told him now was the time to invest in players as covid has reduced prices for level of player significantly.

The fact Brewster went for "only" £23m plus adds when the same club wasted a similar amount on McBurnie last summer says it all about prices.

Anyone who thought the bottom was going to fall out of the transfer market was clearly wrong. Be that Jenkins or lads on here. We've got the strategy of this window entirely wrong based on a false premise and have now got a fortnight to save our season in a very limited pool...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kamarasboot on October 06, 2020, 05:42:45 PM
Anyone who thought the bottom was going to fall out of the transfer market was clearly wrong. Be that Jenkins or lads on here. We've got the strategy of this window entirely wrong based on a false premise and have now got a fortnight to save our season in a very limited pool...

our transfer/recruitment strategy has been wrong for the past 2/3 years - not just this window.

Anyone could see what was coming last summer - all key players on loans. we were always going to have to spend the budget just to stand still.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 06, 2020, 05:50:11 PM
Anyone who thought the bottom was going to fall out of the transfer market was clearly wrong. Be that Jenkins or lads on here. We've got the strategy of this window entirely wrong based on a false premise and have now got a fortnight to save our season in a very limited pool...

The prices haven't dropped?

Then why did patience get man utd telles for £13m when they started off at £30m.

Bargsins where there to be had, and it could be argued we for one ourselves in GD.

Got to have the money to buy though, not pay over 30 years at 50p per year.

Our owner hasn't got a pot to pee in and I am certain he is trying to sell on on the side secretly through his new chief executive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on October 06, 2020, 06:15:02 PM
Only a guess but i think Lai is in the damage limitation phase.

As stated he lost a lot of investment within a year, he probably looked at Albion and thought a nice steady investment after 7 years in the premier league upto his arrival.

I think we have gone up and now have the premier league funding back, i think he will of paid what had to be paid and put a small (ish) in premier league terms budget for the recruitment and i think after those things that would probably leave a very pot of money in the bank, i dont think that pot of money will be for a rainy day, a bit may be released in January but i think the bulk will make its way back to Lai to start repaying his investment. I know he cannot just take funds, it would all have to be done properly but at some point i think will be what happens.

I think if we stay up then its great for him as he could sell us for more money than if we went down and probably make a few quid, but i think its damage limitation now, if we go down, we will cash in on our assets, and again those funds will go towards repaying his investment, allowing for that and also the pot of money, he will then try and sell the club and just try to cover what he initially paid and get the club off his hands, i think everything will be done legal and proper and i dont think he will give a stuff what any fan thinks of him doing it.

Lai isnt a fan and we arent some play thing to try and win stuff and have a **** swinging contest with his mates, we were what seemed a steady investment for him and his backers but within 12 months that investment had gone, one way of doing it would be to of chucked another £25m at the budget and give ourselves a better chance, but then if we went down (which would still be very likely) he has paid out an extra £25m which could go eventually towards repaying him.

It seems we have gone for a approach of buying better younger players who will increase in value which i am quite happy with as a fan as i think its more exciting but i do think he hasnt released enough funds and we will come up short.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 06, 2020, 06:24:07 PM
What pot of money? We've not got any spare money squirrelled away. We're at our absolute limit and are unwilling to borrow any more, however low the rates.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on October 06, 2020, 07:06:55 PM
What pot of money? We've not got any spare money squirrelled away. We're at our absolute limit and are unwilling to borrow any more, however low the rates.
read somewhere that initially Bilic had £35 million to spend but then owner reduced it by £15 million. Lai wanted security due to covid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 06, 2020, 07:11:32 PM
read somewhere that initially Bilic had £35 million to spend but then owner reduced it by £15 million. Lai wanted security due to covid.

Will need a source because it sounds like horse ****
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on October 06, 2020, 07:16:48 PM
Probably close to £35m when you include wages
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 07, 2020, 08:05:21 AM
Quick google

https://intelligence.globalsportsjobs.com/why-the-chinese-invest-in-european-football-

https://offthepitch.com/a/football-being-used-further-chinese-interest-uk-infrastructure

Few lines

'Most Chinese investors have not simply sought to involve themselves in football because of their love of the game. Rather they are using their position to vigorously market their own products'

'Of all sports, football became the key driver. Almost certainly this was due to three major factors. Firstly, it was essential, politically, economically, culturally, and patriotically, to be involved in sports – China’s 13 th five-year plan had made that plain. Secondly, football is the passion of President Xi Jinping and many Chinese billionaires saw the political advantages that association with football might provide. Thirdly, football is the most watched game in the world, making up more than 40 per cent of profits in the entire sports industry. To ignore football was to ignore a large part of the sporting world.'

'It also reported that railway construction is seen as a priority sector by the Chinese government in its bid to increase sales abroad and to extend its “Belt and Road Initiative” deeper into Europe.
One of the main hubs of the HS2-network is the West Midlands, where Birmingham in particular will play a significant role. Wolverhampton, where former HS2-contractor Carillon had its headquarters, also lies in the West Midlands. From a football perspective it then becomes interesting to note that three of the six clubs in the Premier League and Championship that have significant Chinese ownership - Wolverhampton, Birmingham and West Bromwich Albion - all lie in the Birmingham area.'

Spot on - and Lai paid top dollar (and more) to buy the club which really locks him in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 07, 2020, 08:14:02 AM
Only a guess but i think Lai is in the damage limitation phase.

As stated he lost a lot of investment within a year, he probably looked at Albion and thought a nice steady investment after 7 years in the premier league upto his arrival.

I think we have gone up and now have the premier league funding back, i think he will of paid what had to be paid and put a small (ish) in premier league terms budget for the recruitment and i think after those things that would probably leave a very pot of money in the bank, i dont think that pot of money will be for a rainy day, a bit may be released in January but i think the bulk will make its way back to Lai to start repaying his investment. I know he cannot just take funds, it would all have to be done properly but at some point i think will be what happens.

I think if we stay up then its great for him as he could sell us for more money than if we went down and probably make a few quid, but i think its damage limitation now, if we go down, we will cash in on our assets, and again those funds will go towards repaying his investment, allowing for that and also the pot of money, he will then try and sell the club and just try to cover what he initially paid and get the club off his hands, i think everything will be done legal and proper and i dont think he will give a stuff what any fan thinks of him doing it.

Lai isnt a fan and we arent some play thing to try and win stuff and have a **** swinging contest with his mates, we were what seemed a steady investment for him and his backers but within 12 months that investment had gone, one way of doing it would be to of chucked another £25m at the budget and give ourselves a better chance, but then if we went down (which would still be very likely) he has paid out an extra £25m which could go eventually towards repaying him.

It seems we have gone for a approach of buying better younger players who will increase in value which i am quite happy with as a fan as i think its more exciting but i do think he hasnt released enough funds and we will come up short.

Lai can’t take it out unless we have cumulative profits to distribute as dividends and I don’t think we have.

The extra £25m that you suggest he throws at trying to keep us up - where is that coming from if he doesn’t have it available / can’t send it to us from China and we can’t borrow it in the current market?   I fully agree with you that it’s exactly what we need but I just don’t see where it’s going to come from!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on October 07, 2020, 08:33:02 AM
Lai can’t take it out unless we have cumulative profits to distribute as dividends and I don’t think we have.

The extra £25m that you suggest he throws at trying to keep us up - where is that coming from if he doesn’t have it available / can’t send it to us from China and we can’t borrow it in the current market?   I fully agree with you that it’s exactly what we need but I just don’t see where it’s going to come from!
This is in no way a serious proposal but what are the training ground and the Hawthorns itself worth in the current market if used as collateral for a loan?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 07, 2020, 08:58:19 AM
I don't get all the anger at Lai. He said we needed to be self sufficient, the people who he charged with running the club (some of whom were on Peace's recommendations) haven't made the most of the money we did have, and set the club back years.

He could turn up a bit more often, but if he's heavily involved with running businesses in China that could be difficult. It is clear that changing circumstances mean he hasn't been able to take advantage of owning us in the way he originally intended, but we're still being run how he said we'd be run.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 07, 2020, 09:20:48 AM
This is in no way a serious proposal but what are the training ground and the Hawthorns itself worth in the current market if used as collateral for a loan?

Mortgaging the club’s real estate is extremely dangerous if the loan taken out on that security cannot be repaid.  The key question is always how will the borrowings be repaid? 

There are current live proposals for a breakaway of the Championship from the EFL and a complete redistribution of parachute payments because of how they hugely advantage the relegated club.  It is bad enough being relegated with parachute payments.  It would be financially devastating to go down with greatly reduced parachute payments.  Imagine going down with greatly reduced parachute payments AND a loan which cannot be repaid, and which is secured on the Hawthorns and training ground.

The risks to the very existence of many clubs due to COVID and due to the already reckless and unsustainable spending in football are higher than ever.  It is time to be prudent, not to literally gamble the club’s existence by borrowing what we will not be able to repay.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiemart on October 07, 2020, 10:06:22 AM
We are enterring dangerous territory.

I think it is safe to say we will be relegated this season. No way can we compete and our current players are not premiership class.  When we enter the Championship we have 2 years parachute payments. After that we are in danger of doing a Bolton because most of the championship clubs are dependant on the owners putting in money to make them competitive.  If Lai is unwilling to do that then we are into a downward spiral towards the bottom of the league.

We just about got promoted and if Lai had invested a realistic amount we could have competed and at least make a fight of it and at the same time safeguard his investment but like others have said he is damage limitation mode. He's probably thinking why throw good money down the drain !!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Astle1968 on October 07, 2020, 10:23:17 AM
We are enterring dangerous territory.

I think it is safe to say we will be relegated this season. No way can we compete and our current players are not premiership class.  When we enter the Championship we have 2 years parachute payments. After that we are in danger of doing a Bolton because most of the championship clubs are dependant on the owners putting in money to make them competitive.  If Lai is unwilling to do that then we are into a downward spiral towards the bottom of the league.

We just about got promoted and if Lai had invested a realistic amount we could have competed and at least make a fight of it and at the same time safeguard his investment but like others have said he is damage limitation mode. He's probably thinking why throw good money down the drain !!!

I really don't know where any of this comes from. Ironically the only way we could possibly 'do a Bolton' is if Lai, or someone else, does exactly what a number of fans are criticising him for not doing at the moment and throws a lot of money at the club.

Whilst we continue to operate the way we are at present (and have for the last 15 years) it's unlikely we will ever be too much lower than a mid table Championship club.

Our current scouting set up and model for identifying/signing players is holding us back just as much as lack of funds at the moment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on October 07, 2020, 10:48:37 AM
I will be amazed if Lai still owns us in two or three years time, in fact I think we're well and truly already up for sale albeit it's not being openly broadcast. Like I said before, look at actions (in-actions) rather than words. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on October 07, 2020, 10:56:25 AM
I will be amazed if Lai still owns us in two or three years time, in fact I think we're well and truly already up for sale albeit it's not being openly broadcast. Like I said before, look at actions (in-actions) rather than words.

The problem is the price he paid, he’s either going to have to take one almighty loss or someone is going to have to pay 2 maybe even 3 times what we are are actually worth to buy him out.

The only way Lai will go is if he is willing to take a huge loss and I can’t see that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiemart on October 07, 2020, 11:02:47 AM
I really don't know where any of this comes from. Ironically the only way we could possibly 'do a Bolton' is if Lai, or someone else, does exactly what a number of fans are criticising him for not doing at the moment and throws a lot of money at the club.

Whilst we continue to operate the way we are at present (and have for the last 15 years) it's unlikely we will ever be too much lower than a mid table Championship club.

Our current scouting set up and model for identifying/signing players is holding us back just as much as lack of funds at the moment.

To even keep at where you are in any divsion you still need to replace players who get too old, players that leave, players that are not good enough. With no money going into the club we will find ourselves having to sell any good players we have to survive.

Teams that do that utlimately drop down the divsions.  Before we know it we could find ourselves in League 1 or 2.  That's why we could be doing a Bolton or a Sunderland.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Astle1968 on October 07, 2020, 11:45:58 AM
To even keep at where you are in any divsion you still need to replace players who get too old, players that leave, players that are not good enough. With no money going into the club we will find ourselves having to sell any good players we have to survive.

Teams that do that utlimately drop down the divsions.  Before we know it we could find ourselves in League 1 or 2.  That's why we could be doing a Bolton or a Sunderland.

But both Sunderland and Bolton got where they are because they tried to overspend initially with owners pumping money in to the club that the club itself couldn't keep with. Then as soon as that funding is cut off the club is immediately in huge trouble.

Whilst we continue to spend money the club generates itself it's very unlikely we will find ourselves in league 1, let alone league 2. Take a club like Derby or Sheff Wed for example who are both similar sized clubs to us. Both have owners who have thrown money in to the club and have tried to get around FFP restrictions to invest more money. I'd say both are far far more likely to be in League 1 than we are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on October 07, 2020, 11:48:46 AM
Thanks for the reply overseas baggies, i dont know lots about the financial side of the club so appreciate your knowledge.

Is there a basic summary of how the premier league funding works? I am probably completely wrong but in my simple terms i know we get about £170m for being promoted (i think it was £180m but £10m for loss of some tv deal) and last season we would of got about £80m as the second year parachute payments.

So in theory we have an extra £90m income compared to last year I know there were big bonuses to be paid, and some players are on flex contracts, but we have got a lot of big earners off the wage bill in recent years (Foster, Rondon, Dawson, Jrod, Evans, etc) so imagine the wage bill is a lot less than it was.

Allowing for the budget for new players and their wages i have just thought it would seem there would be a surplus pot of money which i previously referred too and said we could take the risk of throwing another £25m at transfers only to possibly end up with the same result - relegation.

If it is the case and there is a pot of money, i have no issue with the club keeping it back, income will change because of no matchday income, etc so makes sense to have money for a rainy day, i would rather that than borrow and not be able to pay it back.

My guess on Lai (and it was a guess) was that pot of money could be classed as profit a year or two down the line and if we go down Lai pays himself it to try and claw back what he invested but as Jacko and Overseas baggies pointed out, we seem to be upto our max money wise.

As for Lai, its going as i expected, he has never said he would be pumping money in, he has always said it would be self sustainable, we cut our cloth accordingly with relegation and i think we are making sure we are financially secure, as a fan of course we want more money spent but the club is a business, people with good knowledge on here of accounting seem to think that we have spent what we can afford too and i would rather that than risk getting in a mess.

Be interesting to see how far the Villa owners go when they realise for all the money they keep spending is still light years away from the elite clubs, Randy Lerner made big promises and after a few years got bored when he realised they were nowhere near, Man City have spent billions and still not won their holy grail of the champions league and have only got close (ish) once.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiemart on October 07, 2020, 11:53:39 AM
But both Sunderland and Bolton got where they are because they tried to overspend initially with owners pumping money in to the club that the club itself couldn't keep with. Then as soon as that funding is cut off the club is immediately in huge trouble.

Whilst we continue to spend money the club generates itself it's very unlikely we will find ourselves in league 1, let alone league 2. Take a club like Derby or Sheff Wed for example who are both similar sized clubs to us. Both have owners who have thrown money in to the club and have tried to get around FFP restrictions to invest more money. I'd say both are far far more likely to be in League 1 than we are.

If that money hadn't been pumped in by their owners they would probably already be in league 1.  How many points has Rooney earned for Derby while he's been there !!!   No way could Derby afford Rooney without help from the owners.

Football today is such that very average players in the Championship earn far more than any other professionals in every day life such as Surgeons, Lawyers etc.  Those are wages that Championship clubs cannot afford so they have to be helped out by their owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 07, 2020, 12:12:38 PM
Thanks for the reply overseas baggies, i dont know lots about the financial side of the club so appreciate your knowledge.

Is there a basic summary of how the premier league funding works? I am probably completely wrong but in my simple terms i know we get about £170m for being promoted (i think it was £180m but £10m for loss of some tv deal) and last season we would of got about £80m as the second year parachute payments.

So in theory we have an extra £90m income compared to last year I know there were big bonuses to be paid, and some players are on flex contracts, but we have got a lot of big earners off the wage bill in recent years (Foster, Rondon, Dawson, Jrod, Evans, etc) so imagine the wage bill is a lot less than it was.

Allowing for the budget for new players and their wages i have just thought it would seem there would be a surplus pot of money which i previously referred too and said we could take the risk of throwing another £25m at transfers only to possibly end up with the same result - relegation.

If it is the case and there is a pot of money, i have no issue with the club keeping it back, income will change because of no matchday income, etc so makes sense to have money for a rainy day, i would rather that than borrow and not be able to pay it back.

My guess on Lai (and it was a guess) was that pot of money could be classed as profit a year or two down the line and if we go down Lai pays himself it to try and claw back what he invested but as Jacko and Overseas baggies pointed out, we seem to be upto our max money wise.

As for Lai, its going as i expected, he has never said he would be pumping money in, he has always said it would be self sustainable, we cut our cloth accordingly with relegation and i think we are making sure we are financially secure, as a fan of course we want more money spent but the club is a business, people with good knowledge on here of accounting seem to think that we have spent what we can afford too and i would rather that than risk getting in a mess.

Be interesting to see how far the Villa owners go when they realise for all the money they keep spending is still light years away from the elite clubs, Randy Lerner made big promises and after a few years got bored when he realised they were nowhere near, Man City have spent billions and still not won their holy grail of the champions league and have only got close (ish) once.

Unfortunately it’s nothing like that amount of money!

Norwich got £94.5m for finishing bottom last season.  The £180m to which you refer “for going up” is the total of our 2020/21 guaranteed minimum money plus the 3 seasons worth of parachute payments if we get relegated.  So when people say “we get £180m for going up” that’s the minimum extra that it’s worth but for the next 4 seasons, not as an outright prize!

Championship clubs get around £8m a season of they don’t have any parachute funding. Therefore after 3 years the funding drops off the cliffedge if a relegated doesn’t get back up before the parachute funding runs out.

When you take into account the bonus money to players for getting promoted, plus players wages usually doubling in the PL under their contracts, it’s very easy to see where the extra PL money goes. If we finish bottom this year and receive £94.5m for this season, and received £8m plus £34m parachute funding last season, then we’ve only really got an extra £52.5m this season.  After that bonus and the wage increases it’s pretty easy to see why our transfer budget was only £25m!   

It is possible for PL clubs to make losses of an average of £39m a year over 3 seasons, but those losses require to be funded cash flow wise and we can’t do that.  Leeds can, and so can Fulham, because their owners have deep pockets but they still can’t exceed those losses over 3 seasons in the PL.  Leeds have a lot more to spend because they had no parachute money last year and operated a low wage bill.  Their funding has increased from £8m to a minimum of £94.5m plus what their owners pump in.

Fulham would be in an identical position to us if their owners weren’t on a position to bankroll them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on October 07, 2020, 12:41:19 PM
Thanks mate, that makes things a lot clearer, i thought it was £180m outright, fortunately i dont work in accounting!

That does explain the budget side much clearer and makes sense, it also dismisses my theory that there may be a pot of money for a rainy day!

It also confirms even more Lai's plan of us being self sustaining, like you say Fulham have Shahid Khan to bankroll them, we dont have and to be fair, our owners have never said they would, it cant be said they have promised the world and not delivered because they said from day one it was business as usual with plans to progress sensibly (sadly that bit went out the window with relegation first year!)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on October 08, 2020, 09:49:03 AM
West Brom comment: Guochuan Lai is letting down fans with lack of investment

Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/10/08/west-brom-comment-guochuan-lai-is-letting-down-fans-with-lack-of-investment/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on October 08, 2020, 10:11:40 AM
It's a start by the E&S and hopefully they help to turn up the volume on fan's discontent with Lai and his half hearted ownership, which seems to be lacking ideas, vision and communication with the fans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on October 08, 2020, 10:31:05 AM
Like Lai could care less about what’s written in a regional newspaper 5,000 miles away.

Proving me wrong would of course be appreciated Goochy! 🙃
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on October 08, 2020, 10:50:51 AM
Will need a source because it sounds like horse ****
again reported in express and star money put a side today in express and star
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 08, 2020, 11:50:58 AM
again reported in express and star money put a side today in express and star

The same express and star that said Lai was an asset rich billionaire, when there's absolutely no evidence for that at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on October 08, 2020, 11:55:31 AM
Don’t really get the article, to me it says Albion have no money and Lai probably doesn’t really have any actual cash but his lack of investment is letting us down.

If we haven’t any money and he doesn’t have any then where is this investment meant to come from?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 09, 2020, 04:58:39 PM
Oh, how I long for someone like a Hale or Summers who loved the Albion AND had some actual money and didn't just see as his golden ticket to millions like jp.

We can say this or that about Lai, but he did not cheat his way into our saying that he was a life long west brom fan born and bred in the area, nor did he say he will spend millions to do this and that.

He is a get rich quick fool who fell for the rubbish fed him by peace and thought yes, I have some of this and probably didn't even know the relegation was possible.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on October 09, 2020, 05:31:15 PM
JP made a lot of money from the club and as a business case this was an exceptional performance. For those of us that did not make a ton of money from our passion, we are left with the nuclear fall out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on October 10, 2020, 12:58:16 AM
The same express and star that said Lai was an asset rich billionaire, when there's absolutely no evidence for that at all.
sounding like orange man across the pound what is it fake news!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: letmereadposts on October 10, 2020, 09:35:36 AM
I feel so deflated. On promotion I felt this was a second chance to achieve something meaningful a second time around in the premier league. I was looking forward to taking on Villa and looked to Wolves as an example of what we could do in the first couple of seasons with some luck and good recruitment. Yet now I see our rivals on a different level, I see the same approach from the club that make us a joke outside and a frustration within.

The Southampton game was all too familiar for me and a classic example of Albion in the premier league. The majority of scouting targets appear restricted to the M25 belt and the prospect of Gray from Watford is truly, truly awful. Admittedly we haven’t signed some of these (poor) players linked but it’s clear at this stage the approach the club are taking.

My fear is we are relegated with a whimper, embarking on a championship campaign without Pereira and/ or Diangana, with a goalkeeper the fans rightly or wrongly hate, without a strikeforce for a third season, and without a top-class manager for that level in Bilic.

I appreciate it is very early in the campaign and that our business in the market is incomplete so apologies for being negative. I’m just at a point where this seems all too familiar and I’ve become pverly sensitive to a) our reputation as a club and b) how well our rivals have progressed. Hopefully my fears are wrong, we tighten up as a unit sign a goal scorer, stay up and build from there. I appreciate we need more from certain players on the pitch, however I also expected more from senior leaders at board room level at the club at this stage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on October 10, 2020, 11:31:18 AM
again reported in express and star money put a side today in express and star

Jacko asked a straight question....
What is the source that you saw the budget had been downgraded by the amounts you quoted?

There is nothing in the E&S report that states what you said....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 10, 2020, 11:42:49 AM
To be fair i also read somewhere that the budget was halved from £35-40m though. This was just after the time Bilic started giving weird sounding interviews as i remember saying to myself thats the sound of a man whos had his transfer budger slashed. Then a few days later and newspaper reported Bilic wasnt happy as he now had 15m less to spend. I'll be damned if i can remember where though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on October 10, 2020, 11:50:09 AM
I feel so deflated. On promotion I felt this was a second chance to achieve something meaningful a second time around in the premier league. I was looking forward to taking on Villa and looked to Wolves as an example of what we could do in the first couple of seasons with some luck and good recruitment. Yet now I see our rivals on a different level, I see the same approach from the club that make us a joke outside and a frustration within.

The Southampton game was all too familiar for me and a classic example of Albion in the premier league. The majority of scouting targets appear restricted to the M25 belt and the prospect of Gray from Watford is truly, truly awful. Admittedly we haven’t signed some of these (poor) players linked but it’s clear at this stage the approach the club are taking.

My fear is we are relegated with a whimper, embarking on a championship campaign without Pereira and/ or Diangana, with a goalkeeper the fans rightly or wrongly hate, without a strikeforce for a third season, and without a top-class manager for that level in Bilic.

I appreciate it is very early in the campaign and that our business in the market is incomplete so apologies for being negative. I’m just at a point where this seems all too familiar and I’ve become pverly sensitive to a) our reputation as a club and b) how well our rivals have progressed. Hopefully my fears are wrong, we tighten up as a unit sign a goal scorer, stay up and build from there. I appreciate we need more from certain players on the pitch, however I also expected more from senior leaders at board room level at the club at this stage.

Well written post and I can imagine many Albion fans feel the same. Like has been spoken about many times before, the issues with club can be dated back to the 13/14 season. That’s when things went really wrong. I don’t believe our club has really recovered from the consistently poor decision making since then. To me, it feels like the spirit of the fan base has been damaged and not fully healed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on October 10, 2020, 12:06:30 PM
It's frustrating as a fan but If I thibk with my head, the lack of transfer budget balanced against long term survival of the club is a sensible thing. Infuriating but sensible. First season with lai in control transfer window shafted us for 2 years as we were paying for the mistakes of that year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 10, 2020, 01:15:21 PM
I don't know why there is so much negativity regarding Lai, he's potless and we knew he would not spend because he got nowt to spend.

We should he positive that he is looking to sell rather than let this mess of an ownership continue.

We can only hope we attract someone with proper ambition and the resources to match.

This season was always going to difficult and it is a bonus that we aren't already rooted to bottom 6 points away from safety, which still would have been preferable than no promotion at all from the skint championship.

We've got rid of the Burke and got GD and worse comes to worse we'll go down with parachute payments and hopefully rise again.

No one has ever splashed the cash around on us so nothing has changed with the inept Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 10, 2020, 01:37:41 PM
again reported in express and star money put a side today in express and star
[/b]

If the money was put aside today in the E&S then that will either be for the tea club or the office lottery tickets..... ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on October 10, 2020, 01:52:29 PM
I don't know why there is so much negativity regarding Lai, he's potless and we knew he would not spend because he got nowt to spend.

We should he positive that he is looking to sell rather than let this mess of an ownership continue.

We can only hope we attract someone with proper ambition and the resources to match.

This season was always going to difficult and it is a bonus that we aren't already rooted to bottom 6 points away from safety, which still would have been preferable than no promotion at all from the skint championship.

We've got rid of the Burke and got GD and worse comes to worse we'll go down with parachute payments and hopefully rise again.

No one has ever splashed the cash around on us so nothing has changed with the inept Lai.

Lai snd his consortium should never have even bought the club. Period.

That’s a fairly good place to start in terms of negativity from fans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 10, 2020, 03:55:40 PM
Lai snd his consortium should never have even bought the club. Period.

That’s a fairly good place to start in terms of negativity from fans.

Why shouldn't they have bought the club? From a fans perspective with the benefit of hindsight then yes it's been poor but exactly as he said he would run the club.
From a business point of view when he bought the club we were a Premier League club who looked like a good way to promote his Palm Eco Towns back in China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tegga on October 10, 2020, 04:12:37 PM
I feel so deflated. On promotion I felt this was a second chance to achieve something meaningful a second time around in the premier league. I was looking forward to taking on Villa and looked to Wolves as an example of what we could do in the first couple of seasons with some luck and good recruitment. Yet now I see our rivals on a different level, I see the same approach from the club that make us a joke outside and a frustration within.

The Southampton game was all too familiar for me and a classic example of Albion in the premier league. The majority of scouting targets appear restricted to the M25 belt and the prospect of Gray from Watford is truly, truly awful. Admittedly we haven’t signed some of these (poor) players linked but it’s clear at this stage the approach the club are taking.

My fear is we are relegated with a whimper, embarking on a championship campaign without Pereira and/ or Diangana, with a goalkeeper the fans rightly or wrongly hate, without a strikeforce for a third season, and without a top-class manager for that level in Bilic.

I appreciate it is very early in the campaign and that our business in the market is incomplete so apologies for being negative. I’m just at a point where this seems all too familiar and I’ve become pverly sensitive to a) our reputation as a club and b) how well our rivals have progressed. Hopefully my fears are wrong, we tighten up as a unit sign a goal scorer, stay up and build from there. I appreciate we need more from certain players on the pitch, however I also expected more from senior leaders at board room level at the club at this stage.
I don't think you could ever look at our local rivals as an example, they have owners with money to spend.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on October 10, 2020, 06:16:59 PM
Why shouldn't they have bought the club? From a fans perspective with the benefit of hindsight then yes it's been poor but exactly as he said he would run the club.
From a business point of view when he bought the club we were a Premier League club who looked like a good way to promote his Palm Eco Towns back in China.

West Bromwich Albion and landscape gardening in China was never, ever going to work. What an earth were they thinking about...exporting the grass from the pitch of our beloved Hawthorn’s as some sort of miracle grow across the Chinese peninsula?!

For me personally, it’s not with the benefit of hindsight. I’ve been completely against Yunyi Guokai Sports Development Limited ownership of WBA from day one. Anyone that knows me personally will attest to that.

The club had grown completely stagnant under JP. To move onto the next level, we needed an owner who would be willing to spend some money. We’d gone as far as we could go in terms of the club running itself. Having Guochan Lai following the same model, the only way we could go was backwards, which we have.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on October 10, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
West Bromwich Albion and landscape gardening in China was never, ever going to work. What an earth were they thinking about...exporting the grass from the pitch of our beloved Hawthorn’s as some sort of miracle grow across the Chinese peninsula?!

For me personally, it’s not with the benefit of hindsight. I’ve been completely against Yunyi Guokai Sports Development Limited ownership of WBA from day one. Anyone that knows me personally will attest to that.

The club had grown completely stagnant under JP. To move onto the next level, we needed an owner who would be willing to spend some money. We’d gone as far as we could go in terms of the club running itself. Having Guochan Lai following the same model, the only way we could go was backwards, which we have.

At the time Lai and his consortium took over there was also the impending HS2 no doubt there were landscaping contracts up for negotiation on that . Thought that was more realistic than eco towns .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 10, 2020, 06:56:27 PM
sounding like orange man across the pound what is it fake news!!!

What evidence have you got that Lai is a pound sterling billionaire?

The only thing we know for certain about him is that he is the founder & now a director of Palm Eco Town Development Ltd.
The company is listed on the Shenzhen stock exchange & the share price is currently around 70% lower than it was at it's peak in 2017.
In 2017, the company had backing of around 2000 million yuan (around £200 million pounds sterling)
I'd be interested to see evidence of any other wealth attributed to GL.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 10, 2020, 07:59:36 PM
Shenzhen sock exchange,

tights, knickers, and stockings prices are very important you know !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on October 10, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
If you buy a football club, at whatever level, then I think that you have to accept a responsibility towards the fans. Even if the purchase is a purely commercial one in terms of intent, any buyer must surely understand that the fans live and breathe their football club, and that any owner, despite having legal ownership, is actually merely a custodian. Lai has shown absolutely zero interest in the supporters and it is that lack of interest and his disrespect for us that really annoys me. I despise the man and the truly awful country that he comes from (a totalitarian police state) and when the time comes that he is gone, it will be a huge hurrah from me and good riddance.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 10, 2020, 08:15:46 PM
Shenzhen sock exchange,

tights, knickers, and stockings prices are very important you know !

Thank you, corrected now. :D





Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 10, 2020, 09:10:28 PM
If you buy a football club, at whatever level, then I think that you have to accept a responsibility towards the fans. Even if the purchase is a purely commercial one in terms of intent, any buyer must surely understand that the fans live and breathe their football club, and that any owner, despite having legal ownership, is actually merely a custodian. Lai has shown absolutely zero interest in the supporters and it is that lack of interest and his disrespect for us that really annoys me. I despise the man and the truly awful country that he comes from (a totalitarian police state) and when the time comes that he is gone, it will be a huge hurrah from me and good riddance.

On the contrary, to the tune of a beer and a scarf he's given us more than Jezza ever did.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on October 10, 2020, 09:15:02 PM
If you buy a football club, at whatever level, then I think that you have to accept a responsibility towards the fans. Even if the purchase is a purely commercial one in terms of intent, any buyer must surely understand that the fans live and breathe their football club, and that any owner, despite having legal ownership, is actually merely a custodian. Lai has shown absolutely zero interest in the supporters and it is that lack of interest and his disrespect for us that really annoys me. I despise the man and the truly awful country that he comes from (a totalitarian police state) and when the time comes that he is gone, it will be a huge hurrah from me and good riddance.

BACK OF THE NET WESTIE!! Never a truer word spoken 👍🏻

Boing Boing 🔵⚪️⚽️🔵⚪️
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 11, 2020, 01:23:03 AM
Lai snd his consortium should never have even bought the club. Period.

That’s a fairly good place to start in terms of negativity from fans.

Then blame the black Country boy, lifelong wba fan who said he would sell us to someone who would take us forward, and who is laughing it up in his Jersey mansion.

Lai is just totally stupid idiot who never said he was one of us to through the door as a wolves in sheeps clothing.

We just got to hope the next owner comes in quickly and is a damn site better than the last 2.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on October 11, 2020, 11:12:33 AM
I feel so deflated. On promotion I felt this was a second chance to achieve something meaningful a second time around in the premier league. I was looking forward to taking on Villa and looked to Wolves as an example of what we could do in the first couple of seasons with some luck and good recruitment. Yet now I see our rivals on a different level, I see the same approach from the club that make us a joke outside and a frustration within.

The Southampton game was all too familiar for me and a classic example of Albion in the premier league. The majority of scouting targets appear restricted to the M25 belt and the prospect of Gray from Watford is truly, truly awful. Admittedly we haven’t signed some of these (poor) players linked but it’s clear at this stage the approach the club are taking.

My fear is we are relegated with a whimper, embarking on a championship campaign without Pereira and/ or Diangana, with a goalkeeper the fans rightly or wrongly hate, without a strikeforce for a third season, and without a top-class manager for that level in Bilic.

I appreciate it is very early in the campaign and that our business in the market is incomplete so apologies for being negative. I’m just at a point where this seems all too familiar and I’ve become pverly sensitive to a) our reputation as a club and b) how well our rivals have progressed. Hopefully my fears are wrong, we tighten up as a unit sign a goal scorer, stay up and build from there. I appreciate we need more from certain players on the pitch, however I also expected more from senior leaders at board room level at the club at this stage.

I'm with you on every thought and sentiment in that. When we got Bilic, then Pereira and Diangana came in, I felt hopeful for the first time in ages. Come on you Baggies Board.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on October 11, 2020, 06:15:16 PM
I don't know why there is so much negativity regarding Lai, he's potless and we knew he would not spend because he got nowt to spend.

We should he positive that he is looking to sell rather than let this mess of an ownership continue.

We can only hope we attract someone with proper ambition and the resources to match.

This season was always going to difficult and it is a bonus that we aren't already rooted to bottom 6 points away from safety, which still would have been preferable than no promotion at all from the skint championship.

We've got rid of the Burke and got GD and worse comes to worse we'll go down with parachute payments and hopefully rise again.

No one has ever splashed the cash around on us so nothing has changed with the inept Lai.




I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on October 11, 2020, 06:46:29 PM
On the contrary, to the tune of a beer and a scarf he's given us more than Jezza ever did.  ;D

Do you class that bottle of **** that Lai ‘gave’ us as beer?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 11, 2020, 06:51:13 PM
Do you class that bottle of **** that Lai ‘gave’ us as beer?

Whatever you class it as my statement remains true.

This guy is no worse than the last guy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Brummie Road on October 12, 2020, 09:07:36 AM
Whatever you class it as my statement remains true.

This guy is no worse than the last guy.

This may well be true, though with Peace he was, for the most part, at the matches and had his ear to the ground and, again for the majority of the time, was very hands on.

Not saying at all that Peace was great and Mr Lai isn't, but the perception of a lack of interest will always fan the flames of discontent when things are not going well.

The present ownership appears distant in every aspect of the word, with supporters feeling more detached by the day (and I know some of that is clearly outside of the control of the club)

Totally appreciate a couple of wins will change the overriding mood plus not being able to attend, with no end in sight, is clearly getting to supporters now (I know it most definitely is for me).

Mr Lai may be a top bloke, really looking to bring success to the club, but several seasons down the line, none us really have a clue as to whether he is or not.
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on October 12, 2020, 10:03:02 AM
If you buy a football club, at whatever level, then I think that you have to accept a responsibility towards the fans. Even if the purchase is a purely commercial one in terms of intent, any buyer must surely understand that the fans live and breathe their football club, and that any owner, despite having legal ownership, is actually merely a custodian. Lai has shown absolutely zero interest in the supporters and it is that lack of interest and his disrespect for us that really annoys me. I despise the man and the truly awful country that he comes from (a totalitarian police state) and when the time comes that he is gone, it will be a huge hurrah from me and good riddance.

As a lifelong Albion fan I 100% agree with you.  However, as someone who has sold some large sporting assets professionally, it’s more difficult.  Selling any sporting asset is incredibly difficult and time consuming and reflected in the fees that are typically 3-5% of consideration.  Yep, on a £100m sale I have quoted and been paid £3-5m.  No one pays such large sums unless it’s recognised that the job is very difficult to achieve.  And that’s when I have the whole world of contacts to work my way through.   If the vendor says “you have to sell to someone who will invest in the club and put supporters interests first”, a small universe shrinks massively.   It’s a bit like selling your house but telling the agent that you will only sell to someone who will agree to keep your prize roses for the next 10 years.   You may still sell your house but it’s going to take a lot longer and you may have to accept a lower price. 

There’s also sadly no interest from within football for this to change.  I know for a fact that there have been lots of proposed changes to some of the ownership rules but there is no desire from the clubs to accept these changes.   And that’s not just the “big” clubs blocking such changes.  The reluctance goes all the way through football.   Most owners just don’t want to be told that they can’t sell their asset to a wealthy foreigner.   Again, think about it in the context of your biggest asset- would you volunteer to change the deeds of your house to prevent you selling it if a crazy foreign buyer offered you twice what it’s worth?   The governing bodies of football aren’t government departments or quangos.  They are ultimately clubs and can only do what members want and their members don’t want to exclude buyers who have got no “investment cash” or loyalty to the club.

Sadly, this isn’t going to change.   It really is sad in many ways because football clubs aren’t like other businesses.  People aren’t bereft when their local shop or cinema struggles but whole regions can be deeply affected by losses such as Bury.  Maybe in a post Covid world football will find a new level.   Lower league clubs should be profitable- they generate a huge amount of cash but need to pay players “only” £10k per week rather than £20k.  Maybe that will work it’s way through and find that smaller clubs will once again be owned by local people who have the interests of the club at heart.   Maybe clubs in L1 and L2 can be owned again by local people who have done well building a firm of accountants or selling a construction business; millionaires rather than multi billionaires.   I can’t see that trend ever reaching the Premier again.  The days when a local-lad-done-good buys the Albion are gone for ever.  Premiership clubs are global status symbols now alongside works of art and iconic buildings. 

Could JP have got us a better buyer?  Who knows.   I hear that he was in talks with some serious people including Fosun.  We will never know how close they came.   However, as said earlier, it’s incredibly difficult getting any buyer to the finish line and with Lai lined up to pay a transformational amount of money, it would have taken a brave man to turn that down in the hope of landing someone who would also invest.  Could he have left some money in the deal for investment?  The problem is the irrelevance of large sums of money in football.   He could have agreed to take £20m less from Lai in return for that being invested back in the club.   What does that get us, a £10m left back and his wages for 3 years...?  A big sacrifice for JP but probably no difference to our destiny on the pitch.

In the end, the Albion is a journey, not a destination.   We will have plenty of ups and downs over the years ahead and lots of twists to the plot.  Lai will one day be in the rear view mirror along side JP etc.   They won’t be Albion fans. They may or may not invest.  But we will still be there.   COYB.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on October 12, 2020, 10:12:53 AM
That's a superb post, stoxman. A lot of stuff that isn't good to read, but of course perfect sense and needs to be said.

And COYB.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on October 12, 2020, 11:18:35 AM
Could JP have got us a better buyer?  Who knows.   I hear that he was in talks with some serious people including Fosun.  We will never know how close they came.   However, as said earlier, it’s incredibly difficult getting any buyer to the finish line and with Lai lined up to pay a transformational amount of money, it would have taken a brave man to turn that down in the hope of landing someone who would also invest.  Could he have left some money in the deal for investment?  The problem is the irrelevance of large sums of money in football.   He could have agreed to take £20m less from Lai in return for that being invested back in the club.   What does that get us, a £10m left back and his wages for 3 years...?  A big sacrifice for JP but probably no difference to our destiny on the pitch.
As I recall, Peace personally paid very little when he acquired the club and didn't put any money into the club after that. Therefore, what he sold the club for was pretty much pure profit, so there wasn't a big sacrifice. Just how much money does one person need? If he'd truly had the best interests of the club at heart, he could have sold it for less and had a larger range of buyers to choose from, with whoever bought the club hopefully having been willing/able to spend more on building up the quality of the squad as a result of buying the club for a lower price.

Peace didn't do that, so you can only assume that he was simply looking after Number 1 and any notion of benevolence on his part is just a sham.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 12, 2020, 12:14:17 PM
As a lifelong Albion fan I 100% agree with you.  However, as someone who has sold some large sporting assets professionally, it’s more difficult.  Selling any sporting asset is incredibly difficult and time consuming and reflected in the fees that are typically 3-5% of consideration.  Yep, on a £100m sale I have quoted and been paid £3-5m.  No one pays such large sums unless it’s recognised that the job is very difficult to achieve.  And that’s when I have the whole world of contacts to work my way through.   If the vendor says “you have to sell to someone who will invest in the club and put supporters interests first”, a small universe shrinks massively.   It’s a bit like selling your house but telling the agent that you will only sell to someone who will agree to keep your prize roses for the next 10 years.   You may still sell your house but it’s going to take a lot longer and you may have to accept a lower price. 

There’s also sadly no interest from within football for this to change.  I know for a fact that there have been lots of proposed changes to some of the ownership rules but there is no desire from the clubs to accept these changes.   And that’s not just the “big” clubs blocking such changes.  The reluctance goes all the way through football.   Most owners just don’t want to be told that they can’t sell their asset to a wealthy foreigner.   Again, think about it in the context of your biggest asset- would you volunteer to change the deeds of your house to prevent you selling it if a crazy foreign buyer offered you twice what it’s worth?   The governing bodies of football aren’t government departments or quangos.  They are ultimately clubs and can only do what members want and their members don’t want to exclude buyers who have got no “investment cash” or loyalty to the club.

Sadly, this isn’t going to change.   It really is sad in many ways because football clubs aren’t like other businesses.  People aren’t bereft when their local shop or cinema struggles but whole regions can be deeply affected by losses such as Bury.  Maybe in a post Covid world football will find a new level.   Lower league clubs should be profitable- they generate a huge amount of cash but need to pay players “only” £10k per week rather than £20k.  Maybe that will work it’s way through and find that smaller clubs will once again be owned by local people who have the interests of the club at heart.   Maybe clubs in L1 and L2 can be owned again by local people who have done well building a firm of accountants or selling a construction business; millionaires rather than multi billionaires.   I can’t see that trend ever reaching the Premier again.  The days when a local-lad-done-good buys the Albion are gone for ever.  Premiership clubs are global status symbols now alongside works of art and iconic buildings. 

Could JP have got us a better buyer?  Who knows.   I hear that he was in talks with some serious people including Fosun.  We will never know how close they came.   However, as said earlier, it’s incredibly difficult getting any buyer to the finish line and with Lai lined up to pay a transformational amount of money, it would have taken a brave man to turn that down in the hope of landing someone who would also invest.  Could he have left some money in the deal for investment?  The problem is the irrelevance of large sums of money in football.   He could have agreed to take £20m less from Lai in return for that being invested back in the club.   What does that get us, a £10m left back and his wages for 3 years...?  A big sacrifice for JP but probably no difference to our destiny on the pitch.

In the end, the Albion is a journey, not a destination.   We will have plenty of ups and downs over the years ahead and lots of twists to the plot.  Lai will one day be in the rear view mirror along side JP etc.   They won’t be Albion fans. They may or may not invest.  But we will still be there.   COYB.



A very interesting comment Stoxman.

As somebody with experience in changes of ownership of sports ventures, in your opinion, is it likely that GL paid £200 million for West Bromwich Albion?

Apart from the Palm project, very little is known about GL's personal wealth, & looking at the way that project has performed in the last 3 years, it's struggling to sustain itself, never mind providing funds for WBA.

There are a number of articles online on how to value a football club, & some of the KPI's include, turnover, profitability, attendance percentages & gate receipts & merchandising.

With the best will in the world, using those formulae, I'm finding it difficult to get a valuation of  £200 million & it's probably nearer to £50 million.

I'm really not sure that GL is as wealthy as some believe, & I wonder if, at the time of the sale, pounds sterling were being confused with Chinese Yuan.

GL is certainly a Yuan billionaire, but I'm not sure about pounds sterling.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on October 12, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Thank you for the post stoxman.

Your insight and knowledge in the area of buying and selling sports assets does shed light on the thought processes of both the buyer and the seller and the  difficulties of drawing up complicated contracts that provide 100% water tight guarantees for both parties.

To these buyers and sellers its just business, a materialistic, tangible and rational (maybe, maybe not) transaction. But us fans aren't materialistic when it comes to the team we support and our passion for our club is intangible and at times downright irrational.

Additionally, I'm of a mind that if "Project Big Picture" or a similar initiative comes to fruition, buying and selling will be even more complex.

Oh how I wish English football had a similar "Socios Partidarios" system to that of Spain
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on October 12, 2020, 10:21:00 PM


A very interesting comment Stoxman.

As somebody with experience in changes of ownership of sports ventures, in your opinion, is it likely that GL paid £200 million for West Bromwich Albion?

Apart from the Palm project, very little is known about GL's personal wealth, & looking at the way that project has performed in the last 3 years, it's struggling to sustain itself, never mind providing funds for WBA.

There are a number of articles online on how to value a football club, & some of the KPI's include, turnover, profitability, attendance percentages & gate receipts & merchandising.

With the best will in the world, using those formulae, I'm finding it difficult to get a valuation of  £200 million & it's probably nearer to £50 million.

I'm really not sure that GL is as wealthy as some believe, & I wonder if, at the time of the sale, pounds sterling were being confused with Chinese Yuan.

GL is certainly a Yuan billionaire, but I'm not sure about pounds sterling.

Valuing an asset such as Albion is as much art as science and is mostly about RELATIVE value rather than absolute.  You are right that on the basis of absolute value, football clubs make little sense.  If we price them off book value/ cash flow/ EBITDA etc then they all look expensive (unless we run a DCF that predicts a massive increase in cash flow in the future based on much higher TV rights).  I personally struggle with that argument for two reasons; firstly I think that the average football fan is probably near their maximum in terms of what they will pay to consume live televised football.   Most people simply won’t/can’t pay more and football viewer numbers aren’t growing that fast (after strong growth in the last 20 years) other than in Asia.  Even if you disagree with that view, I believe that if TV deals were to double again the majority of that would leak out to players and agents rather than in to club profitability.   

Therefore, if we assume that no one can justify £200m based on current assets or cash flows, there are only two reasons to justify the price.   One is what’s known colloquially as the “Greater Fool Theory”.   It doesn’t matter what price you pay for a club so long as one day a bigger fool will pay more for it.  The same can be said for a Monet or a case of Margaux.   Neither pays a yield or has any realisable asset value.  Indeed, you have to pay money to insure and store both.  Nevertheless, people buy them (apart from their true use) because they believe they will store value and be bought by someone for a higher price later albeit at a level which bears no relation to asset value.

Which brings us to relative value.  I once got a bid of €104m on a golf course from a Qatari Prince.  My seller wanted €115m and wouldn’t sell.  It’s still not sold 6 years later.  The club made €200k pa.   There was no development value.  It was just a famous club and the seller was looking at what other clubs were “worth” or more to e point, what they’d been sold for.  The value of a Monet is driven by other Monets.  The value of Margaux is driven by prices of other great wines.   That’s the same with football clubs.  I’ve never sold one personally but was involved in a fund that invested in them.   All the talk is about relative value.  It’s all “well if Aston Villa was worth X, we must be worth Y.”  The value is adjusted for land development rights, squad values etc but the key thing is, no one stops to ask whether the WHOLE MARKET is mad.    Buying one asset for 10% below market value looks like a bargain but not if the whole market is 5x over valued....

Where will it end?  That no one knows.  The biggest clubs have been wonderful investments and are bang on trend still with current investment market appetite.  Currently markets want enduring inevitable brands, the sort of things owned by LVMH, Diageo, Unilever etc.  Brands such as Man Utd fit this because they will still be selling branded shirts and Man U TV packages in 50 years time.   Where will West Brom’s value be?   My guess (and this is just that) is that £200m was the peak and that in a decade or two it will still not be surpassed....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 12, 2020, 11:05:25 PM
Valuing an asset such as Albion is as much art as science and is mostly about RELATIVE value rather than absolute.  You are right that on the basis of absolute value, football clubs make little sense.  If we price them off book value/ cash flow/ EBITDA etc then they all look expensive (unless we run a DCF that predicts a massive increase in cash flow in the future based on much higher TV rights).  I personally struggle with that argument for two reasons; firstly I think that the average football fan is probably near their maximum in terms of what they will pay to consume live televised football.   Most people simply won’t/can’t pay more and football viewer numbers aren’t growing that fast (after strong growth in the last 20 years) other than in Asia.  Even if you disagree with that view, I believe that if TV deals were to double again the majority of that would leak out to players and agents rather than in to club profitability.   

Therefore, if we assume that no one can justify £200m based on current assets or cash flows, there are only two reasons to justify the price.   One is what’s known colloquially as the “Greater Fool Theory”.   It doesn’t matter what price you pay for a club so long as one day a bigger fool will pay more for it.  The same can be said for a Monet or a case of Margaux.   Neither pays a yield or has any realisable asset value.  Indeed, you have to pay money to insure and store both.  Nevertheless, people buy them (apart from their true use) because they believe they will store value and be bought by someone for a higher price later albeit at a level which bears no relation to asset value.

Which brings us to relative value.  I once got a bid of €104m on a golf course from a Qatari Prince.  My seller wanted €115m and wouldn’t sell.  It’s still not sold 6 years later.  The club made €200k pa.   There was no development value.  It was just a famous club and the seller was looking at what other clubs were “worth” or more to e point, what they’d been sold for.  The value of a Monet is driven by other Monets.  The value of Margaux is driven by prices of other great wines.   That’s the same with football clubs.  I’ve never sold one personally but was involved in a fund that invested in them.   All the talk is about relative value.  It’s all “well if Aston Villa was worth X, we must be worth Y.”  The value is adjusted for land development rights, squad values etc but the key thing is, no one stops to ask whether the WHOLE MARKET is mad.    Buying one asset for 10% below market value looks like a bargain but not if the whole market is 5x over valued....

Where will it end?  That no one knows.  The biggest clubs have been wonderful investments and are bang on trend still with current investment market appetite.  Currently markets want enduring inevitable brands, the sort of things owned by LVMH, Diageo, Unilever etc.  Brands such as Man Utd fit this because they will still be selling branded shirts and Man U TV packages in 50 years time.   Where will West Brom’s value be?   My guess (and this is just that) is that £200m was the peak and that in a decade or two it will still not be surpassed....

Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on October 13, 2020, 02:14:54 AM
your point about relative value is well put, the club was worth 200million because Lai paid it, or near. However it was nowhere near any comparable value of a club that had sold in the same state. I think Peace got lucky , China was looking to explore investment in football and made it easy for that to happen. The investment strategy of organizations in China is still heavily state influenced. China has now problems with its international expansion through investment strategy and I doubt Lai would invest anymore whatever he wanted to do. I could quite believe that the club will never be valued at 200 million again, which leaves us stuck unless Lai decides to cut his losses.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on October 13, 2020, 10:13:07 AM
https://www.buzzsprout.com/987004/5846599-baggies-ownership-riddle-pay-per-view-rick-parry

Worth a listen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 13, 2020, 03:29:56 PM
https://www.buzzsprout.com/987004/5846599-baggies-ownership-riddle-pay-per-view-rick-parry

Worth a listen.

Thanks for that, to be frank there was not a lot we didn't already now, the confirmation of what a **** jockey Rick Parry is was amusing though!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 13, 2020, 10:52:22 PM
As I recall, Peace personally paid very little when he acquired the club and didn't put any money into the club after that. Therefore, what he sold the club for was pretty much pure profit, so there wasn't a big sacrifice. Just how much money does one person need? If he'd truly had the best interests of the club at heart, he could have sold it for less and had a larger range of buyers to choose from, with whoever bought the club hopefully having been willing/able to spend more on building up the quality of the squad as a result of buying the club for a lower price.

Peace didn't do that, so you can only assume that he was simply looking after Number 1 and any notion of benevolence on his part is just a sham.

And Peace saved around £45m in CGT by emigrating to Jersey
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on October 16, 2020, 08:36:36 PM
well with no help at all from our wonderful owner,  I think the recruitment staff have worked miracles to get these deals done.
we all want more but with so little backing, blimey.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 16, 2020, 10:31:18 PM
Lai is useless. A no go anywhere leader. The only way he can retrieve himself is to fall on his sword and sell. Until everyone knows this, we are in the wilderness.,
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on October 17, 2020, 12:15:08 AM
We are probably worth 60million, lai would have a big pill to swallow. I said in a prior post I don’t see a way out unless China demands disposition of assets. We are stuck with an owner who paid way too much and no viable way to get to that valuation again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 17, 2020, 12:45:22 AM
We are probably worth 60million, lai would have a big pill to swallow. I said in a prior post I don’t see a way out unless China demands disposition of assets. We are stuck with an owner who paid way too much and no viable way to get to that valuation again.

The playing squad is worth more than that? But the true value lies in the TV deal. While we're not worth £200 million you can surely double your estimate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 17, 2020, 08:41:57 AM
The playing squad is worth more than that? But the true value lies in the TV deal. While we're not worth £200 million you can surely double your estimate.

The playing squad should have a value over £60 million, as you say, but if the base transfer fees are being paid in stages, (either directly to the selling club or via a loan) then that value will be off-set against a substantial debt.
Even with the TV deal, I would doubt we have a market value over £100 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on October 18, 2020, 04:36:48 AM
The tv deal is only valuable if you are still in the premier league. I still don’t think anyone would value us much more than 60 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on October 18, 2020, 05:39:16 AM
We are in the process of selling our house, currently it is SSC, and had to spend countless hours explaining to my wife that it is/was worth exactly whatever someone was prepared to pay for it and not what the one over the road sold for six months ago or what the one two doors down has just been put up for sale at, both of which were different sizes, different styles and different ages to our house.
COYB
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on October 18, 2020, 06:05:26 AM
We do have advantage that were are more or less debt free, and The club owns the Ground and the adjoining academy area I believe. That plus the value of the playing staff must put the value over £100 million and a bit more hopefully. If we are still Premier league this time next year
and life has returned to some sort of normally the value could rise to an amount when Lai may just consider jumping ship, we can but hope. Life springs eternal!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on October 18, 2020, 09:07:36 AM
The tv deal is only valuable if you are still in the premier league. I still don’t think anyone would value us much more than 60 million.

Even more so when you consider in 12 months time we could be faffing around in the championship again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 27, 2020, 04:10:50 PM
Valuing an asset such as Albion is as much art as science and is mostly about RELATIVE value rather than absolute.  You are right that on the basis of absolute value, football clubs make little sense.  If we price them off book value/ cash flow/ EBITDA etc then they all look expensive (unless we run a DCF that predicts a massive increase in cash flow in the future based on much higher TV rights).  I personally struggle with that argument for two reasons; firstly I think that the average football fan is probably near their maximum in terms of what they will pay to consume live televised football.   Most people simply won’t/can’t pay more and football viewer numbers aren’t growing that fast (after strong growth in the last 20 years) other than in Asia.  Even if you disagree with that view, I believe that if TV deals were to double again the majority of that would leak out to players and agents rather than in to club profitability.   

Therefore, if we assume that no one can justify £200m based on current assets or cash flows, there are only two reasons to justify the price.   One is what’s known colloquially as the “Greater Fool Theory”.   It doesn’t matter what price you pay for a club so long as one day a bigger fool will pay more for it.  The same can be said for a Monet or a case of Margaux.   Neither pays a yield or has any realisable asset value.  Indeed, you have to pay money to insure and store both.  Nevertheless, people buy them (apart from their true use) because they believe they will store value and be bought by someone for a higher price later albeit at a level which bears no relation to asset value.

Which brings us to relative value.  I once got a bid of €104m on a golf course from a Qatari Prince.  My seller wanted €115m and wouldn’t sell.  It’s still not sold 6 years later.  The club made €200k pa.   There was no development value.  It was just a famous club and the seller was looking at what other clubs were “worth” or more to e point, what they’d been sold for.  The value of a Monet is driven by other Monets.  The value of Margaux is driven by prices of other great wines.   That’s the same with football clubs.  I’ve never sold one personally but was involved in a fund that invested in them.   All the talk is about relative value.  It’s all “well if Aston Villa was worth X, we must be worth Y.”  The value is adjusted for land development rights, squad values etc but the key thing is, no one stops to ask whether the WHOLE MARKET is mad.    Buying one asset for 10% below market value looks like a bargain but not if the whole market is 5x over valued....

Where will it end?  That no one knows.  The biggest clubs have been wonderful investments and are bang on trend still with current investment market appetite.  Currently markets want enduring inevitable brands, the sort of things owned by LVMH, Diageo, Unilever etc.  Brands such as Man Utd fit this because they will still be selling branded shirts and Man U TV packages in 50 years time.   Where will West Brom’s value be?   My guess (and this is just that) is that £200m was the peak and that in a decade or two it will still not be surpassed....

Following the end of the summer transfer window & especially the sale of Ahmed Hagazi right at the end, GL's stewardship of the club seems to have come back into focus.
Just as a point of interest, following the change of ownership of JP's shares, where would the cash (JP's withdrawal & GL'S investment) be shown in company accounts?

I would have expected to see it somewhere on the balance sheet.

Just looked at Chelsea accounts & CFC owe circa £1000 million to the Abramovich holding company.

The only thing I can see on our accounts is a £27 million withdrawal in 2016/17 classed as a dividend payment & a constant £23 million owing to the WBA holding company from 2017 onwards.

Oh & the notorious £3.5 million loan.

Could someone with experience of acquisitions help please?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on October 29, 2020, 09:47:26 AM
so apparently we are for sale and have been offered around for 175m
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 29, 2020, 09:48:11 AM
Good luck with 175m!  Do you have a link please?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on October 29, 2020, 09:50:39 AM
Good luck with 175m!  Do you have a link please?

don't have a link but one of the reporters for the athletic has mentioned it in on twitter with regards to Burnley being sold that we are also available.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elminius on October 29, 2020, 09:51:20 AM
https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2020/10/29/im-told-athletic-journalist-claims-lai-has-named-his-price-for-west-brom-sale/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 29, 2020, 09:54:17 AM
Thank you guys.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on October 29, 2020, 09:56:39 AM
‘I’m told’ – Athletic journalist claims Lai has named his price for West Brom sale

Being "reported" that Lai wants £175m prepared to take a big hit

Source: https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2020/10/29/im-told-athletic-journalist-claims-lai-has-named-his-price-for-west-brom-sale/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on October 29, 2020, 10:12:24 AM
With an offer of £200m reportedly having been made for Burnley, I'm struggling to see what makes them more attractive at that price than us at £175m?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on October 29, 2020, 10:29:49 AM
With an offer of £200m reportedly having been made for Burnley, I'm struggling to see what makes them more attractive at that price than us at £175m?

A quick look at last year's accounts of Burnley showed a turnover of nearly £140m, quite a bit more than I think we ever achieved,plus having £40 million in the bank at the end of last season.  Even if we survive this season I don't see our club being worth anything close to what Lai wants, especially if supporters are not allowed back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on October 29, 2020, 01:07:39 PM
If £175M is his starting position, what might he settle for, I wonder.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: VANDERLEI on October 29, 2020, 02:20:24 PM
I would say he is willing to accept considerably less but hardly going to make that public knowledge.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 29, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
‘I’m told’ – Athletic journalist claims Lai has named his price for West Brom sale

Being "reported" that Lai wants £175m prepared to take a big hit

Source: https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2020/10/29/im-told-athletic-journalist-claims-lai-has-named-his-price-for-west-brom-sale/

I think the "s" is missing from the prepared bit, as if we go down again that's all he'll get offered in the current covid climate.

Hope this price is true (lower would be better), but doubt it is given the Burnley takeover at £200m, as their Egyptian buyer would surely prefer to put the £25m saving into player purchases and on a club closer to London with also the added attraction of HS2 if he has intentions to invest heavily in the local area like the man city owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 29, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
A quick look at last year's accounts of Burnley showed a turnover of nearly £140m, quite a bit more than I think we ever achieved,plus having £40 million in the bank at the end of last season.  Even if we survive this season I don't see our club being worth anything close to what Lai wants, especially if supporters are not allowed back.

On gates of 20,000 and an apparently socially deprived area that £140m is remarkable if true and a great advert for their marketing team as cannot recall a big player sale from them since that Everton defender whose name escapes me.

I think I also read that they operated on a ridiculously low wages bill of around £55m.

They've certainly come a long way from Kilby sagging us for having the unfair advatage of parachute payments and being sponsored by dave fishwick.

That £40m in the bank is a jp tactic they have clearly seen and used to attract a buyer using the mantra "see what could be yours".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIES4LIFE on October 29, 2020, 03:51:35 PM
On gates of 20,000 and an apparently socially deprived area that £140m is remarkable if true and a great advert for their marketing team as cannot recall a big player sale from them since that Everton defender whose name escapes me.

I think I also read that they operated on a ridiculously low wages bill of around £55m.

They've certainly come a long way from Kilby sagging us for having the unfair advatage of parachute payments and being sponsored by dave fishwick.

That £40m in the bank is a jp tactic they have clearly seen and used to attract a buyer using the mantra "see what could be yours".

Finishing 10th helped, they received £30+ more than Norwich, who got £95m from TV.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 29, 2020, 07:49:58 PM
Finishing 10th helped, they received £30+ more than Norwich, who got £95m from TV.

Burnley's gate income was around £6 million, TV rights were around £115 million, so by far their largest source of income was media rights.

Their total wage bill was around £78 million.

Been doing some research into acquisitions, & if I've understood it right, JP's sale to GL was what is known as a share sale in accountancy terms.

With a share sale, the buyer acquires both assets & liabilities of the business.

As Stoxman said, although tangible assets can be calculated, as can the player registration portion of the intangible assets, some of the intangible assets, like profits & goodwill are more nuanced & therefore subject to opinion.

Certainly there are US & Middle Eastern organisations who are in the market for an EPL club.

Depending on the end game for the buyer, WBA might be a good buy at £175 million, especially if the rivalry between us, Villa & Wolves improves their global exposure
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on October 29, 2020, 10:01:19 PM
Our peak PL turnover was £137m and Burnley's £138m. So the two clubs are similar from a financial perspective and whether we are talking about £200m or £175m both clubs are absolutely appalling propositions at that sort of price.

There is zero prospect that a new owner will come in at £175m and spend the sort of money that many fans want to see lavished on the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on October 29, 2020, 11:06:07 PM
Burnley's gate income was around £6 million, TV rights were around £115 million, so by far their largest source of income was media rights.

Their total wage bill was around £78 million.

Been doing some research into acquisitions, & if I've understood it right, JP's sale to GL was what is known as a share sale in accountancy terms.

With a share sale, the buyer acquires both assets & liabilities of the business.

As Stoxman said, although tangible assets can be calculated, as can the player registration portion of the intangible assets, some of the intangible assets, like profits & goodwill are more nuanced & therefore subject to opinion.

Certainly there are US & Middle Eastern organisations who are in the market for an EPL club.

Depending on the end game for the buyer, WBA might be a good buy at £175 million, especially if the rivalry between us, Villa & Wolves improves their global exposure

Good time for Burnley to sell dont they have like 9 players out of contract come summer?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 30, 2020, 02:12:42 AM
Good time for Burnley to sell dont they have like 9 players out of contract come summer?

They didn't spend much in the last window and lost Hendrick and Defour and worryingly for them there was talk of their boss not being happy and wanting to leave.

If he leaves the next boss will have a massive job to stop them falling as low as even the Dings, as Dyche is solely responsible for their stay in the prem as he rarely makes errors in the transfer market.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 30, 2020, 08:50:35 AM
Our peak PL turnover was £137m and Burnley's £138m. So the two clubs are similar from a financial perspective and whether we are talking about £200m or £175m both clubs are absolutely appalling propositions at that sort of price.

There is zero prospect that a new owner will come in at £175m and spend the sort of money that many fans want to see lavished on the club.


Really depends on the reason for the purchase.

In a pre-covid world, an EPL club would be a useful conduit for global exposure of the buyers organisation. (Isn't that why GL bought us in the first place?).

£175 - £200 million might be a price worth paying for an EPL club, depending on what the global economy looks like post covid.

I agree though, there is no way GL will get £175 million for an EFL club, so it's essential we retain our EPL status.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 30, 2020, 09:11:47 AM
They didn't spend much in the last window and lost Hendrick and Defour and worryingly for them there was talk of their boss not being happy and wanting to leave.

If he leaves the next boss will have a massive job to stop them falling as low as even the Dings, as Dyche is solely responsible for their stay in the prem as he rarely makes errors in the transfer market.

I think that is fairly accurate. They have 14 players out of contract at the end of the season, and the ones they do have under contract will be their better players who will want to leave (McNeil, Pope, etc.). They would probably lose Dyche at that point, if they hadn't already. Having to rebuild with parachute payments in the Championship is no easy thing, as we know, but they would have a massive job on their hands.

I wouldn't want to be buying them now by any means. That's another Lai waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on October 30, 2020, 10:07:41 AM
We are in the process of selling our house, currently it is SSC, and had to spend countless hours explaining to my wife that it is/was worth exactly whatever someone was prepared to pay for it and not what the one over the road sold for six months ago or what the one two doors down has just been put up for sale at, both of which were different sizes, different styles and different ages to our house.
COYB
But have you used farrow n ball paint?😀
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on October 30, 2020, 10:23:47 AM
The following quote from the film Glengarry Glen Ross neatly summarises the difference between the Premier League and the EFL

“As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.”

This is why any Premier League club that has an inherent relegation risk is not worth £200m and only those that don't are worth more but those that don't are worth a lot more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on October 30, 2020, 10:40:22 AM
Burnley's gate income was around £6 million, TV rights were around £115 million, so by far their largest source of income was media rights.

Their total wage bill was around £78 million.

Been doing some research into acquisitions, & if I've understood it right, JP's sale to GL was what is known as a share sale in accountancy terms.

With a share sale, the buyer acquires both assets & liabilities of the business.

As Stoxman said, although tangible assets can be calculated, as can the player registration portion of the intangible assets, some of the intangible assets, like profits & goodwill are more nuanced & therefore subject to opinion.

Certainly there are US & Middle Eastern organisations who are in the market for an EPL club.

Depending on the end game for the buyer, WBA might be a good buy at £175 million, especially if the rivalry between us, Villa & Wolves improves their global exposure

Hi BaggieJohn.  You’re right about the share sale.   They tend to be more preferable for vendors (sellers) because they are “clean”.  You’ve sold all the assets and liabilities with the exception of anything that’s specifically covered by warranties that cover tax investigations, litigation etc.   Depending on structures, they can also be more tax efficient than asset sales.  From a buyers perspective, asset deals can be better because it more clearly lands the shell of Oldco on the previous owner to deal with any previous issues.   There’s almost always a negotiation in which the buyer will offer two different prices; one for an asset deal and one for a share deal.  Think of it like selling your house.   If deal A was to sell your house with no tax to pay but you have to give warranties for the next 7 years against the roof leaking and deal B was just a walk away with a cheque and possibly more tax to pay, there would be two different values for your house.  It’s similar with businesses.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on October 31, 2020, 12:12:23 PM
Hope this idiot is seriously thinking about selling club and only way he will get any where near the £175 million is if Slaven can keep Albion in Prem.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on November 02, 2020, 03:50:54 PM
Apparently, there was an attempt to raise a large sum of money against the football club last year which was stopped internally.

By whom and for what purpose I have no idea, but it does make you wonder what is going on in the upper echelons of the club.

Has any member heard about this?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: staticboy on November 03, 2020, 01:55:32 PM
What the actual heck???

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2020/11/03/guochuan-lai-may-have-already-handed-west-brom-ownership-to-someone-else-chris-lepkowski/

Just searched on Google for

Ms Yasha Ge and Orbis and could not find a thing ???

What is going on at our beloved club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on November 03, 2020, 02:02:20 PM
What the actual heck???

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2020/11/03/guochuan-lai-may-have-already-handed-west-brom-ownership-to-someone-else-chris-lepkowski/

Just searched on Google for

Ms Yasha Ge and Orbis and could not find a thing ???

What is going on at our beloved club?
Hasn’t China banned some internet stuff we take for granted, which may be why search engines are turning nothing up ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on November 03, 2020, 02:50:05 PM
Lai is still listed as a person with significant control on companies house.

CL should disclose more information about his research and why they think this, or shut up.  He shouldn't just spout this sort of stuff without at least trying to back it up.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on November 03, 2020, 02:54:11 PM
What the actual heck???

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2020/11/03/guochuan-lai-may-have-already-handed-west-brom-ownership-to-someone-else-chris-lepkowski/

Just searched on Google for

Ms Yasha Ge and Orbis and could not find a thing ???

What is going on at our beloved club?

I thought this had been widely reported before, from memory Ms Ge works for one of Lai's businesses and Orbis are a (dutch?) agency who report on business ownership, akin to an independent companies house but worldwide.  From what I read its a nothing story.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on November 03, 2020, 02:56:23 PM
Lai is still listed as a person with significant control on companies house.

CL should disclose more information about his research and why they think this, or shut up.  He shouldn't just spout this sort of stuff without at least trying to back it up.

Maybe he can't find out any more, and mentions it because then somebody with more connections can look into it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on November 03, 2020, 03:28:05 PM
I thought this had been widely reported before, from memory Ms Ge works for one of Lai's businesses and Orbis are a (dutch?) agency who report on business ownership, akin to an independent companies house but worldwide.  From what I read its a nothing story.

It has been reported before. Something highlighted in the linked article itself which is supposed to be an update of the original, although it doesn't appear to provide one. I haven't listened to the podcast though as CL and AGs voices grate on me after a while. Well a couple of seconds to be honest. I've read the name Yasha Ge before too. As for Orbis there's also a far eastern accounting, business and legal consultancy solutions company........

https://orbis-alliance.com/our-teams/china

....... I've no idea whether they've got anything to do with the current price of eggs, Lai, Ge or West Bromwich Albion in particular though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBaggieMan on November 03, 2020, 03:45:14 PM
The cousin of Man City UAE Sheik Mansour is in the process of buying Derby - surely we would be the better option!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Nickwba1 on November 03, 2020, 04:22:28 PM
The cousin of Man City UAE Sheik Mansour is in the process of buying Derby - surely we would be the better option!

Just out of interest, why do you think we'd be a better option for someone to buy?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on November 03, 2020, 04:32:13 PM
The cousin of Man City UAE Sheik Mansour is in the process of buying Derby - surely we would be the better option!

We’re landlocked around several football clubs on a par or better than us. When you take the WBA specs off we’re not attractive.

I’ve always wondered why a Bristol club or Exeter aren’t snapped up given the catchment area and lack of any alternatives around the area.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on November 03, 2020, 04:37:58 PM
Maybe he can't find out any more, and mentions it because then somebody with more connections can look into it?

He might not have a lot, but it doesnt appear that he really says anything about why he has those suspicions at all. So its nothing more than malicious rumour on the evidence (or lack of) which is irresponsible when some people will listen to the podcast / read the stories and believe it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on November 03, 2020, 04:38:09 PM
We’re landlocked around several football clubs on a par or better than us. When you take the WBA specs off we’re not attractive.

I’ve always wondered why a Bristol club or Exeter aren’t snapped up given the catchment area and lack of any alternatives around the area.

Not to mention the figures involved.

£30m for the Dingles, plus £100m on good recruitment to get in the Premier

or

£175m for a club that are in the Premier League, but need £100m investment to stay there?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on November 03, 2020, 05:10:12 PM
It has been reported before. Something highlighted in the linked article itself which is supposed to be an update of the original, although it doesn't appear to provide one. I haven't listened to the podcast though as CL and AGs voices grate on me after a while. Well a couple of seconds to be honest. I've read the name Yasha Ge before too. As for Orbis there's also a far eastern accounting, business and legal consultancy solutions company........

https://orbis-alliance.com/our-teams/china

....... I've no idea whether they've got anything to do with the current price of eggs, Lai, Ge or West Bromwich Albion in particular though.

Well, if ownership or control has changed without the Premier League first approving it then if would be a major breach.   Seems unlikely.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on November 03, 2020, 05:48:00 PM
We’re landlocked around several football clubs on a par or better than us. When you take the WBA specs off we’re not attractive.

I’ve always wondered why a Bristol club or Exeter aren’t snapped up given the catchment area and lack of any alternatives around the area.

Bristol City is owned by Stephen Landsdown, who is a billionaire
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bilston Dan on November 03, 2020, 06:27:47 PM
Bristol City is owned by Stephen Landsdown, who is a billionaire

They are still chokers...and they always will be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on November 03, 2020, 07:08:28 PM
Guochuan Lai may have already handed West Brom ownership to someone else

Source: https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2020/11/03/guochuan-lai-may-have-already-handed-west-brom-ownership-to-someone-else-chris-lepkowski/

I wonder if this is connected in any way with the post I made earlier about an attempt to raise a large sum of money against the football club last year which was stopped internally.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on November 03, 2020, 10:06:14 PM
Guochuan Lai may have already handed West Brom ownership to someone else

Source: https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2020/11/03/guochuan-lai-may-have-already-handed-west-brom-ownership-to-someone-else-chris-lepkowski/

I wonder if this is connected in any way with the post I made earlier about an attempt to raise a large sum of money against the football club last year which was stopped internally.

That's the same link which was posted on the previous page to this one which we've been commenting on  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on November 04, 2020, 09:25:58 AM
That's the same link which was posted on the previous page to this one which we've been commenting on  ;) .

Oops!! Sorry, I hadn't seen that. Thank you for letting me know Dan.

I'll look at little closer to previous posts next time I think I have a scoop  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on November 04, 2020, 10:00:18 AM
Well, if ownership or control has changed without the Premier League first approving it then if would be a major breach.   Seems unlikely.
I thought we were actually owned by one of Lai’s companies so could say a change of management structure within the company be a way to circumvent that ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on November 04, 2020, 10:01:54 AM
I thought we were actually owned by one of Lai’s companies so could say a change of management structure within the company be a way to circumvent that ?

That's what I believed. WBA Holding Company owns the football club, and a company, of which Lai was majority shareholder, bought the controlling share in the Holding Company
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on November 04, 2020, 01:14:42 PM
That's what I believed. WBA Holding Company owns the football club, and a company, of which Lai was majority shareholder, bought the controlling share in the Holding Company

Yes but any material changes of ultimate beneficial ownership have to be sanctioned by the FA Premier League.  Otherwise anybody could become an owner by simply buying the shares of a holding company several layers up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on December 20, 2020, 09:11:36 PM
Can anyone tell me how we can start to let the Chinese know its time to go. Its clear they are looking to sell but with no fans in the ground they are getting away with this as far I am concerned. I am not one for protesting ect but this simply is not good enough. I would like to see local media start to ask more questions about their plans
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 20, 2020, 09:27:24 PM
Can anyone tell me how we can start to let the Chinese know its time to go. Its clear they are looking to sell but with no fans in the ground they are getting away with this as far I am concerned. I am not one for protesting ect but this simply is not good enough. I would like to see local media start to ask more questions about their plans

They've got a website. Not that they'll pay a blind bit of notice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on December 21, 2020, 12:01:47 AM
Can anyone tell me how we can start to let the Chinese know its time to go. Its clear they are looking to sell but with no fans in the ground they are getting away with this as far I am concerned. I am not one for protesting ect but this simply is not good enough. I would like to see local media start to ask more questions about their plans

The more people that make their feelings known the better, on all forums available. There’s no need to keep it polite, it needs to be nasty and personal towards the owners, then they might just start to get the message. On this forum, though, we must be nice to Mr Lai and his friends.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 21, 2020, 12:09:19 AM
Thing is guys he wants out himself. Lai just can't work out which of his 3 options to take

1) a guaranteed loss now of 30-40m but he's out.
2) risk relegation and face an even bigger loss
3) Sam pulls off a miracle and he can probably get most of his money back next summer. FOr this to be possible he needs to take a slight risk now though and take out a low interest loan that most clubs were rumoured to be using in the summer
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 21, 2020, 12:15:09 AM
The more people that make their feelings known the better, on all forums available. There’s no need to keep it polite, it needs to be nasty and personal towards the owners, then they might just start to get the message. On this forum, though, we must be nice to Mr Lai and his friends.


If you want to make it nasty and personal then you’re more than welcome to join Facebook.

You’re more than welcome to criticise the owners providing you do so within the rules.

If you keep breaking the rules, you’ll go.

Pretty simple really.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on December 21, 2020, 12:24:43 AM
If you want to make it nasty and personal then you’re more than welcome to join Facebook.

You’re more than welcome to criticise the owners providing you do so within the rules.

If you keep breaking the rules, you’ll go.

Pretty simple really.

Generally speaking, being courteous to people is to be recommended. However, Mr Lai and his cronies are ruining our Club, the Club we have all supported for very many years, ruining it and dragging its reputation into the gutter. He shows complete contempt towards us and you think that we should be nice to him? Please, Mr Lai, we would so much appreciate it you would be nice to us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 21, 2020, 12:31:33 AM
Generally speaking, being courteous to people is to be recommended. However, Mr Lai and his cronies are ruining our Club, the Club we have all supported for very many years, ruining it and dragging its reputation into the gutter. He shows complete contempt towards us and you think that we should be nice to him? Please, Mr Lai, we would so much appreciate it you would be nice to us?

I’ve said nothing about being nice.

I’m just telling you and others to post within the forum rules.

You can criticise the owners to your hearts content providing its within the rules.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on December 21, 2020, 12:42:54 AM
It’s a good job that I don’t live in China, then, they have ‘rules’, they’re known as censorship and curtailment of free speech. I just feel that there should be no rules when it comes to criticism of Lai. Hey ho, though, despite Covid19 its Christmas, goodwill towards everyone, and I do actually mean it Liam, to you as well. Everyone except Lai, that is!

Happy Christmas to all my fellow posters on here, let’s hope that we’ll all be amongst one another again in the pub before a match sometime in 2021.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on December 21, 2020, 12:51:47 AM
It’s a good job that I don’t live in China, then, they have ‘rules’, they’re known as censorship and curtailment of free speech. I just feel that there should be no rules when it comes to criticism of Lai. Hey ho, though, despite Covid19 its Christmas, goodwill towards everyone, and I do actually mean it Liam, to you as well. Everyone except Lai, that is!

Happy Christmas to all my fellow posters on here, let’s hope that we’ll all be amongst one another again in the pub before a match sometime in 2021.

Criticism is fine as long as its within our rules. They won't be changing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 29, 2020, 08:08:29 PM
Everything comes back to this man and his passive ownership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on December 29, 2020, 10:15:57 PM
i doubt he even watches now, he must really regret buying us. People keep blaming him when the real issue was JP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on December 29, 2020, 10:22:15 PM
People keep blaming him when the real issue was JP.
The real issue was Peace selling to Lai whilst at the same time claiming that he wanted someone who would take the club forward when, actually, it seems clear that he just wanted to get as high a price as he could and nothing else mattered.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on December 30, 2020, 11:20:06 AM
Ebenezer screwed this club from day one and like the Donald across the pond was only interested in number 1. Sold us to a skint Billionaire the so called boyhood Baggies fan
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 30, 2020, 11:39:18 AM
The real issue was Peace selling to Lai whilst at the same time claiming that he wanted someone who would take the club forward when, actually, it seems clear that he just wanted to get as high a price as he could and nothing else mattered.

Said it on here many times Worcs, well put.

Some even wanted him back!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on December 30, 2020, 11:42:48 AM
Lai needs to go I wasn't born when we had our dark times many of you mention. I was born the year of the Great Escape 2004. I always supported Albion even before I understood Football so never followed the results. Once I understood the Game I followed us more actively this was all under JP we were in the Prem I remember my dad telling Me about Hodgson being England Manager and remember the Steve Clarke years still didn't understand Football or know many of players. I remember Lukaku and how he was at the time one of the players I liked. I then remember Irvine, Mel and Pulis sadly I got more into Football as Pulis was in Charge. Then in came DM I had hope he revitalized us I thought I to could see a great Escape which didn't happen. Then well now I have seen Slav go loved him he brought Me Enterniament and hope and now I'm seeing a club who my dad supported since 92 and one I have had a connection with being dragged down. I remeber my dad telling me the year before if not a few years before we went down how we were an established PL Club and how we always did well against the Big Boys but terrible against Smaller Teams. Now we are yoyoing being the Premier League and Championship something we always used to do. But with these owners I'm already thinking of League 1 playing Walsall away and walking to the Bescot from my house with someone like Darren Moore back in charge or Nigel Clough and I don't want to think about that but I can see us going that way. So Lai does all over a favour get out of this club and turn the lights off on your way out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on December 30, 2020, 11:47:48 AM
Correct on both counts WorcsWBA and Paul 👍🏻

Jeremy Peace...what an utter shyster! At least we’re rid of him. I’m grateful for that at least.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on December 31, 2020, 12:55:22 AM
Fascinating listening to the talk coming out of the Burnley takeover by an American consortium. Richard Garlick (outgoing chairman) has been saying how they will base themselves in the area and the new owner Alan Pace has years of sports management experience, as well as having recently acquired share in two sports data management companies. They won’t have tons of cash, but they will have a bit more than before and crucially they seem to understand football and sports management.

Compare that to “lifelong fan” JP who always said he would only sell the club to the right people. Happy enough to make mega millions selling to a bloke with no knowledge of the club, no interest in its long term future or and experience in football.

We should always remember what JP did to us. A chancer who should be banned from the Hawthorns.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on December 31, 2020, 02:47:07 AM
Out of interest, is there anyone on here who thought JP was a solid owner doing the best for us that has since changed their mind?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on December 31, 2020, 03:56:27 AM
His greed extended to sidelining the minority shareholders, who got nothing. He was a shark who made sure he got everything. The BS about wanting the club in good hands after his ownership was tough to swallow.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bangkokbaggie on December 31, 2020, 07:10:36 AM
I never trusted JP and was always convinced that his number one motive was to line his own pockets, not support the club's future and he found the perfect gullible person in Lai that fell for his sales spiel.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on December 31, 2020, 08:28:00 AM
Out of interest, is there anyone on here who thought JP was a solid owner doing the best for us that has since changed their mind?
I'm quite an innocent when it comes to football finance and looking at the club in the round before JP and post JP, it seems there is much to admire him for,
Do I resent him making as much as he could - No,
Do I resent him selling to Lai - Now with hindsight - yes, its not as obviously disastrous (yet) as Dr Xie at Vile park but has the potential to be.
Was he right about a mid championship club, currently looking very much so, based on finances, as a self sufficient entity that seems not too far off, sadly.

So in summary, Yes he was a solid custodian, yes he did bloody well out of it, but he also achieved more than those prior and definitely more than those since.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on December 31, 2020, 08:31:02 AM
The problem is everyone looks at football differently as if it is something completely different to the real world when unfortunately it is not.

If another team offers a player a 20k wage rise and he leaves then he gets booed and called a traitor but those same people would jump at the offer if another employer offered them a significant wage rise.

The same with Peace; if everyone was offering £160m for arguments sake but the this clown Lai come and offered £200m what do you expect him to accept, id love to see people say they would turn down £40m, it’s easy to say when it’s not your money.

I’m not sticking up for Peace but I doubt he or anybody could see that we would be in this mess that we are in & don’t forget even though it went t*ts up, that first summer Lai was in charge we spent more than we ever did on wages and transfers and everyone on here was saying how fantastic it was and our best ever transfer window.

We would have never broke £100k p/w  under Peace so maybe it was right that Lai intended to do that little bit more, unfortunately like I say it all went wrong on the pitch that season and that’s where the interest was lost.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2020, 08:57:34 AM
Peace did a good job for the club (and for himself) in an era when an owner like him could just about survive in the PL.  He knew that he could take us no further. He knew that the club needed an owner with deeper pockets and the ability to inject cash that he didn’t have.

At the time that he sold to Lai, it is quite possible that Lai was in a very different position to where he is now.  Knowing how China works, I am willing to give Lai and Peace the benefit of the doubt.  Lai may well have had all the right intentions but the Chinese situation changed, and I can see why Peace went for it.

None of this helps re the way forward.  Lai can’t afford to sell at a loss, but can’t afford to spend what’s necessary to keep us in the PL.   He really needs to bring in an outside equity investor to help him out.  I can’t see any other way.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on December 31, 2020, 09:07:37 AM
Nearly 4 and a half years now GL has been in charge. He certainly kept to his word when he said business as usual. Can’t fault the guy in that regard as he didn’t come in promising Champions League football and silverware.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2020, 09:16:54 AM
Nearly 4 and a half years now GL has been in charge. He certainly kept to his word when he said business as usual. Can’t fault the guy in that regard as he didn’t come in promising Champions League football and silverware.

Actually 3 1/2 years but yes - he has always said the club needed to be self-sufficient.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on December 31, 2020, 09:23:59 AM
Actually 3 1/2 years but yes - he has always said the club needed to be self-sufficient.

No, four and a half. August 2016.

 https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover (https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on December 31, 2020, 09:38:44 AM
Nearly 4 and a half years now GL has been in charge. He certainly kept to his word when he said business as usual. Can’t fault the guy in that regard as he didn’t come in promising Champions League football and silverware.
What he said back in 2016 was "I hope with the effort of all of us, we will get to the top half of the division in the near future. I very much look forward to that". To be fair, he didn't say which division....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on December 31, 2020, 09:40:56 AM
Peace did a good job for the club (and for himself) in an era when an owner like him could just about survive in the PL.  He knew that he could take us no further. He knew that the club needed an owner with deeper pockets and the ability to inject cash that he didn’t have.

At the time that he sold to Lai, it is quite possible that Lai was in a very different position to where he is now.  Knowing how China works, I am willing to give Lai and Peace the benefit of the doubt.  Lai may well have had all the right intentions but the Chinese situation changed, and I can see why Peace went for it.

None of this helps re the way forward.  Lai can’t afford to sell at a loss, but can’t afford to spend what’s necessary to keep us in the PL.   He really needs to bring in an outside equity investor to help him out.  I can’t see any other way.

Incredibly naive. The writing was on the wall from day one. Lai needed to rely on others to help fund the purchase and announced no capital would be invested in the club. JP knew full well what sort of owner we were getting, all he cared about was maximising his return.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2020, 09:56:02 AM
No, four and a half. August 2016.

 https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover (https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2016/august/full-statement-on-albion-takeover)

Apologies - you are quite right!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2020, 09:59:19 AM
Incredibly naive. The writing was on the wall from day one. Lai needed to rely on others to help fund the purchase and announced no capital would be invested in the club. JP knew full well what sort of owner we were getting, all he cared about was maximising his return.

No - not “incredibly naive”.  Lai was the front man for a small consortium.  The financial demands needed to survive in the PL are far higher than they were in 2016.  Peace had just overseen 7 or 8 seasons in the PL at that stage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on December 31, 2020, 10:57:43 AM
Put it this way...

I preferred the journey under JP than I have at any time under Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on December 31, 2020, 11:26:45 AM
The economic reality is that you are going to be disappointed with the ownership and while I am certain there might be better owners out there than Lai I am equally certain that there are worse available.

The reality is that unless your club has the resources (from it's own operations or through owner subsidy) to routinely finish in the top half of the Premier League you have a problem. It is called relegation which is possible for any club that is going to routinely finish in the bottom half. The economic consequences of relegation are well documented and typically will halve the assest value of the club. It is worse than that because the Championship is an economic hell where lost souls are tortured for an eternity for the mistakes they made in their Premier League Lives. Self sustainability is hugely difficult in the Championship and is very much part of the dysfunctionality that seems embedded in the way football runs itself as a whole.

Is any owner likely to subsidise the club to that extent? Moshiri has spent £400m plus £200m on his original stake in Everton to achieve that and that was starting from a higher base than ourselves.  The club has committed to spending £500m on a new state of the art stadium. Once that is done do they get a seat in the big 6 table  and if so at whose expense? I suspect they won't. Yes, a top half finish most years and the fear of relegation is probably banished and maybe that is worth £1bn. Or maybe it isn't because a European Super League happens without them. 

There is no white knight out there. Spending a bit more does not cut it. Most of the teams that are routinely finishing in the bottom half are hoping for the White Knight owner before relegation sinks them. Don't spin me your fantasies of a bigger stadium. The new work permit regulations make a player trading model difficult the only way out is youth development and few turn that particular trick.

I have never been more depressed by the footballing landscape and whether Lai or somebody else is in charge at the Albion makes very little difference.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2020, 11:57:29 AM
The economic reality is that you are going to be disappointed with the ownership and while I am certain there might be better owners out there than Lai I am equally certain that there are worse available.

The reality is that unless your club has the resources (from it's own operations or through owner subsidy) to routinely finish in the top half of the Premier League you have a problem. It is called relegation which is possible for any club that is going to routinely finish in the bottom half. The economic consequences of relegation are well documented and typically will halve the assest value of the club. It is worse than that because the Championship is an economic hell where lost souls are tortured for an eternity for the mistakes they made in their Premier League Lives. Self sustainability is hugely difficult in the Championship and is very much part of the dysfunctionality that seems embedded in the way football runs itself as a whole.

Is any owner likely to subsidise the club to that extent? Moshiri has spent £400m plus £200m on his original stake in Everton to achieve that and that was starting from a higher base than ourselves.  The club has committed to spending £500m on a new state of the art stadium. Once that is done do they get a seat in the big 6 table  and if so at whose expense? I suspect they won't. Yes, a top half finish most years and the fear of relegation is probably banished and maybe that is worth £1bn. Or maybe it isn't because a European Super League happens without them. 

There is no white knight out there. Spending a bit more does not cut it. Most of the teams that are routinely finishing in the bottom half are hoping for the White Knight owner before relegation sinks them. Don't spin me your fantasies of a bigger stadium. The new work permit regulations make a player trading model difficult the only way out is youth development and few turn that particular trick.

I have never been more depressed by the footballing landscape and whether Lai or somebody else is in charge at the Albion makes very little difference.

An extremely good summary of the reality of the Premier League today. 

Spot in re the risk of relegation.  Only about 8 clubs are truly “safe”.  It could easily be West Ham, Southampton or Villa in a relegation dogfight next season.

Seeing that an 84% stake in Burnley has just been bought for apparently close to £175m (valuing the club at around £200m), given their current league position, and given their similarity to us in many respects, do you think that the value already reflects the risk of relegation (in view of the risks that you point out for half the PL clubs) or do you think they are overpaying? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on December 31, 2020, 12:54:14 PM
The economic reality is that you are going to be disappointed with the ownership and while I am certain there might be better owners out there than Lai I am equally certain that there are worse available.

The reality is that unless your club has the resources (from it's own operations or through owner subsidy) to routinely finish in the top half of the Premier League you have a problem. It is called relegation which is possible for any club that is going to routinely finish in the bottom half. The economic consequences of relegation are well documented and typically will halve the assest value of the club. It is worse than that because the Championship is an economic hell where lost souls are tortured for an eternity for the mistakes they made in their Premier League Lives. Self sustainability is hugely difficult in the Championship and is very much part of the dysfunctionality that seems embedded in the way football runs itself as a whole.

Is any owner likely to subsidise the club to that extent? Moshiri has spent £400m plus £200m on his original stake in Everton to achieve that and that was starting from a higher base than ourselves.  The club has committed to spending £500m on a new state of the art stadium. Once that is done do they get a seat in the big 6 table  and if so at whose expense? I suspect they won't. Yes, a top half finish most years and the fear of relegation is probably banished and maybe that is worth £1bn. Or maybe it isn't because a European Super League happens without them. 

There is no white knight out there. Spending a bit more does not cut it. Most of the teams that are routinely finishing in the bottom half are hoping for the White Knight owner before relegation sinks them. Don't spin me your fantasies of a bigger stadium. The new work permit regulations make a player trading model difficult the only way out is youth development and few turn that particular trick.

I have never been more depressed by the footballing landscape and whether Lai or somebody else is in charge at the Albion makes very little difference.

Stan, completely hypothetical and impossible question but I’ll ask anyway....

Do you think with capitalism and consumerism that for a sport as popular as football that this has been inevitable all along.

If we could take the clock back 150 years even with some great promises is there some sense of animal farm to it all in that we would likely end up here anyway. Sooner or later. Perhaps with a different set of clubs at top but with things fundamentally getting to this sort of stage in the end anyway.

Without a draft type system, which our education system or the basis of our league pyramid couldn’t support, I’m so think there’s some inevitability about this all personally and  that if you are ‘unfortunate’ enough to support someone outside the big 6, like we are, then most of us have very little choice but to generally accept how it is.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on December 31, 2020, 01:50:39 PM
Alan Pace was CEO of Lehman Brothers although he did leave 2 years before they went bankrupt. Is it possible that a master of the Universe has paid too much for an English football club? Hell, yes. In point of fact he has paid way too much Burnley might be "worth" £200m in the Premier League although you probably need to spend pretty much every penny it earns to keep them there (how do you extract value from the proposition still nobody has ever responded to that question with a sensible answer)  but they are absolutely not worth that as a Championship club.

It is disappointing in the sense that the price reinforces the going rate for a lesser Premier League club with little or no development potential at £200m and therefore possibly entrenches Lai's perception of our value thus extending the current rather unhappy marriage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on December 31, 2020, 02:53:10 PM
Stan, completely hypothetical and impossible question but I’ll ask anyway....

Do you think with capitalism and consumerism that for a sport as popular as football that this has been inevitable all along.

If we could take the clock back 150 years even with some great promises is there some sense of animal farm to it all in that we would likely end up here anyway. Sooner or later. Perhaps with a different set of clubs at top but with things fundamentally getting to this sort of stage in the end anyway.

Without a draft type system, which our education system or the basis of our league pyramid couldn’t support, I’m so think there’s some inevitability about this all personally and  that if you are ‘unfortunate’ enough to support someone outside the big 6, like we are, then most of us have very little choice but to generally accept how it is.



In short yes. Under capitalism there is always a tendency toward monopoly and without intervention all markets are dominated by one or two major players. Obviously sport doesn't quite work like that and for it exist as a spectacle there needs to be competition and that competition needs to be broadly based to maximise it's reach.

The irony of course the country which has the most laissez-faire economic system the US has the most competitive sports leagues. The leagues be they NFL,NBA, NHL,MLB or MLS are monopolies if they compete at all it is with each other. To compete they need spectacle drama and they need to keep the notion of "on any given day" alive. To do this there lots of checks and balance to stop the stronger franchises gaining a stranglehold on the league. What tends to happen is that the bigger franchises are more profitable and that profit goes to the owners in dividends and increased valuations but does not get out on the pitch in a way that does in European football.

I don't think the current state affairs is sustainable and ultimately if there is European Super League it will look a lot like the NFL.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on December 31, 2020, 05:13:24 PM
Ebenezer screwed this club from day one and like the Donald across the pond was only interested in number 1. Sold us to a skint Billionaire the so called boyhood Baggies fan

Peace = Judas
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on December 31, 2020, 11:19:00 PM
No - not “incredibly naive”.  Lai was the front man for a small consortium.  The financial demands needed to survive in the PL are far higher than they were in 2016.  Peace had just overseen 7 or 8 seasons in the PL at that stage.

JP was only interested in maximising his return. If you think otherwise your deluding yourself. I don’t know why your referencing the finance needed to compete at this level, Lai has no cash, has never put any cash into the club and said from day one the club would have to be self sufficient. Kind of provides the point that JP was only interested in maximising the sale price and that the sale to Lai was a sideways step. JP’s talk of selling us onto an owner to take us to the next level was hollow. He could have pitched the club at a discount to FOSUN who were sniffing but he didn’t have any willingness to limit his return for the good of the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2021, 02:00:36 AM
JP was only interested in maximising his return. If you think otherwise your deluding yourself. I don’t know why your referencing the finance needed to compete at this level, Lai has no cash, has never put any cash into the club and said from day one the club would have to be self sufficient. Kind of provides the point that JP was only interested in maximising the sale price and that the sale to Lai was a sideways step. JP’s talk of selling us onto an owner to take us to the next level was hollow. He could have pitched the club at a discount to FOSUN who were sniffing but he didn’t have any willingness to limit his return for the good of the club.

Up until you mentioned FOSUN you were making some very valid points.  FOSUN ended up buying Wolves for next to nothing. No sane businessman would be expected to walk away from nearly £200m and accrue anything like what FOSUN paid for Wolves.

I do accept the point though that if Peace was genuine about selling to someone who could take the club forward, then he was either (a) fooled by Lai, (b) didn’t do enough due diligence, or (c) didn’t care.  Only Peace knows the truth and we can all speculate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on January 01, 2021, 02:19:53 AM
JP was only interested in maximising his return. If you think otherwise your deluding yourself. I don’t know why your referencing the finance needed to compete at this level, Lai has no cash, has never put any cash into the club and said from day one the club would have to be self sufficient. Kind of provides the point that JP was only interested in maximising the sale price and that the sale to Lai was a sideways step. JP’s talk of selling us onto an owner to take us to the next level was hollow. He could have pitched the club at a discount to FOSUN who were sniffing but he didn’t have any willingness to limit his return for the good of the club.
if i remember correctly, Peace rejected a takeover before Lai came in and it was heavily implied to have been from FOSUN.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on January 01, 2021, 08:06:58 AM
The silence from the top table is deafening - not a peep to be heard!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 01, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
Out of interest, is there anyone on here who thought JP was a solid owner doing the best for us that has since changed their mind?

He delivered this football clubs most successful period in nigh on 40 years.

He made a fair load of wonga through the sale - FairPlay to him, I’d have done the same.

If there’s an offer on the table, you take it..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on January 01, 2021, 10:04:51 AM
He delivered this football clubs most successful period in nigh on 40 years.

He made a fair load of wonga through the sale - FairPlay to him, I’d have done the same.

If there’s an offer on the table, you take it..
Exactly , its like selling your house for a lesser price because your neighbours favoured the look of those buyers rather than the highest bidder .
We had our rise out of JP , he was never going to turn down that offer .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 01, 2021, 10:15:40 AM
The problem is everyone looks at football differently as if it is something completely different to the real world when unfortunately it is not.

If another team offers a player a 20k wage rise and he leaves then he gets booed and called a traitor but those same people would jump at the offer if another employer offered them a significant wage rise.

The same with Peace; if everyone was offering £160m for arguments sake but the this clown Lai come and offered £200m what do you expect him to accept, id love to see people say they would turn down £40m, it’s easy to say when it’s not your money.

I’m not sticking up for Peace but I doubt he or anybody could see that we would be in this mess that we are in & don’t forget even though it went t*ts up, that first summer Lai was in charge we spent more than we ever did on wages and transfers and everyone on here was saying how fantastic it was and our best ever transfer window.

We would have never broke £100k p/w  under Peace so maybe it was right that Lai intended to do that little bit more, unfortunately like I say it all went wrong on the pitch that season and that’s where the interest was lost.
You sir, write what I think...👍
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 01, 2021, 11:02:02 AM
He delivered this football clubs most successful period in nigh on 40 years.

He made a fair load of wonga through the sale - FairPlay to him, I’d have done the same.

If there’s an offer on the table, you take it..

Agreed Liam, as I have little problem with someone who serves there own interests by serving the interests of others to make profit, we all do it on one scale or another
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 01, 2021, 11:05:50 AM
He delivered this football clubs most successful period in nigh on 40 years.

He made a fair load of wonga through the sale - FairPlay to him, I’d have done the same.

If there’s an offer on the table, you take it..
Spot on Liam, agree entirely.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: GREGMT on January 01, 2021, 11:07:47 AM
I can't stand Jeremy Peace, never put his own money into WBA, denied us a new reputable owner.

We should've have built the extension to the Halfords and made us into a bigger club and sent out a message to the media that we're better than "Little West Brom".  This tag has absolutely dogged us with VAR this season, the club's reputation is just so low.  Those VAR decisions will help to relegate us.

There was complacency under Peace.  Handing out contract extensions to seasoned pro's who were in decline and got too comfortable, Brunt & Morrison come to mind.   

The real hero was Ashworth in uncovering those bargains and enabling WBA to punch above it's weight for so long; Olsson - £850,000, Mulumbu - £100,000, Yacob - £250,000, McAuley - FREE, Scharner - FREE, Odemwingie £1.5m etc.

As soon as transfers went the other way, this is the legacy; Burke - £15m, Livermore - £11m, Chadli - £11m, Ideye - £10m, Sturridge - HIGH WAGES, Krychiowiak - HIGH WAGES, plus other players borderline EPL standard such as Ridgewell, Gibbs, Gardner, Sessegnon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 01, 2021, 11:10:54 AM
Moreover, at the time of the sale China was actively encouraging such investment and offering very cheap loans/subsidies etc. for their businessmen/entrepreneurs to get involved.

Then they pulled up the drawbridge. Hardly Jeremy Peace's fault is it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: GREGMT on January 01, 2021, 11:20:15 AM
Moreover, at the time of the sale China was actively encouraging such investment and offering very cheap loans/subsidies etc. for their businessmen/entrepreneurs to get involved.

Then they pulled up the drawbridge. Hardly Jeremy Peace's fault is it?

I don't think anyone can assess accurately what Lai had in mind in terms of future spend when he took over from Peace?

All I'll say is that FOSUN v Lai is like comparing Day to Night. 

Surely WBA fans deserve better than what we've been given in terms of ownership?

I never trusted Peace and will always be suspicious of his true motives.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 01, 2021, 11:22:18 AM
The seeds for our current predicament were sown under Peace who I absolutely don't blame for taking the money but I do blame for letting smart operating practices fall into disarray after Ashdown left and that was in part down to his own hubris.

Lai made two mistakes. Taking the Pulis era club at face value. In house buying terms it was like buying a nicely appointed property but disregarding the surveyors report that had found some worrying cracks in the basement. The second mistake which followed from the first he paid too much.

Everything else we see today follows on from those two errors. Had Lai been a particularly astute owner we could have made some different decisions and we might have been in a different place, however an astute owner would not have paid £188m for Peace's share of the club.


   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on January 01, 2021, 11:26:02 AM
The real hero was Ashworth
Very much so. Letting him go to the FA was a huge mistake (I know, you can't make someone stay in their job if they don't want to, but we should have made every possible effort to keep him at Albion, and I doubt penny-pincher did).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 01, 2021, 11:26:51 AM
What returns? Ebenezer bought club with clubs money anyone defending this ******** should have no complaints with new owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on January 01, 2021, 11:36:33 AM
I don't think anyone can assess accurately what Lai had in mind in terms of future spend when he took over from Peace?

All I'll say is that FOSUN v Lai is like comparing Day to Night. 

Surely WBA fans deserve better than what we've been given in terms of ownership?

I never trusted Peace and will always be suspicious of his true motives.
Peace’s true motives are sitting in an offshore bank account somewhere !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 01, 2021, 11:38:52 AM
Some people are living in a dream world.

It’s as if they think that if peace had dropped his price by 25% we could have had forsun or some other billionaire. Forsun paid roughly 15% of what Peace sold us for. If Peace had started looking for buyers at 15% of our value we really could have got a dangerous chancer.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TLMS17 on January 01, 2021, 11:45:42 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but I’m sure I heard on the E&S podcast (don’t quite me exactly) at start of the season that Lai’s plan was to flip us for a profit after 2/3 years

Obviously going down when we did stopped that happening and then with COVID and the market, along with us now being a newly promoted team he’s not going to make the money he wanted and more than likely going to lose money if he sold us currently
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 01, 2021, 11:55:06 AM
I don't think anyone can assess accurately what Lai had in mind in terms of future spend when he took over from Peace?

All I'll say is that FOSUN v Lai is like comparing Day to Night. 

Surely WBA fans deserve better than what we've been given in terms of ownership?

I never trusted Peace and will always be suspicious of his true motives.

The motive is profit and what Fosun are doing at Wolves is the same as Peace did at the Albion. They are making money from owning a football club which they have bought because nobody else wanted to buy it for a price that was greater than the one they were offering. They will sell to the next biggest fool to come along Lai in the case of Peace and we don't know who in the case of the Wolves. Meanwhile Fosun are taking more money out of Wolves via agency fees than Peace ever did out of the Albion.

Why do Albion fans or any other group of fans for that matter deserve better?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 01, 2021, 12:55:35 PM
The seeds for our current predicament were sown under Peace who I absolutely don't blame for taking the money but I do blame for letting smart operating practices fall into disarray after Ashdown left and that was in part down to his own hubris.

Lai made two mistakes. Taking the Pulis era club at face value. In house buying terms it was like buying a nicely appointed property but disregarding the surveyors report that had found some worrying cracks in the basement. The second mistake which followed from the first he paid too much.

Everything else we see today follows on from those two errors. Had Lai been a particularly astute owner we could have made some different decisions and we might have been in a different place, however an astute owner would not have paid £188m for Peace's share of the club.


 

Tell you what I don't get Stan.

You took a lot of trouble a few weeks ago to trawl some data on the acquisition from the Palm website.
Palm has claimed to have contributed around £30 million to the consortium (around 18%, which led you to the £188 million figure).

After the acquisition, there was massive publicity around Palm & the Eco Town projects, to the point where the training ground &  the stadium itself were Palm logo'd.
Lai himself was credited with the success of Palm, which at the time had a market value of around £1.5 billion.

Rightly or wrongly, I had taken that publicity to mean that the future successes of WBA would be linked to the success of Palm.


Given the above background, & the massive publicity given to Palm, I find it strange that they only contributed 18% to the acquisition, & why would the consortium chose someone who had contributed only 18% to lead them.

I've read the statement from Palm, & interpreted it in exactly the same way as you, but for me it creates more questions than answers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: GREGMT on January 01, 2021, 12:57:14 PM
The motive is profit and what Fosun are doing at Wolves is the same as Peace did at the Albion. They are making money from owning a football club which they have bought because nobody else wanted to buy it for a price that was greater than the one they were offering. They will sell to the next biggest fool to come along Lai in the case of Peace and we don't know who in the case of the Wolves. Meanwhile Fosun are taking more money out of Wolves via agency fees than Peace ever did out of the Albion.

Why do Albion fans or any other group of fans for that matter deserve better?


Because it's all relative to the size of the club, literally most of the clubs a similar size have been taken over at one point or another by an owner with ambition.  For instance how many clubs did Milan Mandaric take over?  Whether it works in the end is a different matter. 

WBA is too safe and lacking in ambition.  We've got promoted with nothing resembling a Premier League budget.  That's why certain fans were steadfastly behind Bilic.  Managers like Hodgson, Clarke, Pulis were able to feed off the excellent work of Ashworth.  Some Managers better than others.  This time we have been found out big time for lack of ambition.

True fan expectations only come from historical achievements in a glorious past!  The 8 years of EPL stability were an anomoly, a perfect storm where everything went close to 100% right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 01, 2021, 01:22:02 PM
All I'll say is that FOSUN v Lai is like comparing Day to Night. 

Fosun and Wolves were being laughed out of town when they appointed Zenga and Lambert and finishing 14th and 15th in the championship. Whilst we were opening the chequebook after what some claimed was our best ever transfer window in the Premier League

You’re using the benefit of hindsight to fuel your argument.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: GREGMT on January 01, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Fosun and Wolves were being laughed out of town when they appointed Zenga and Lambert and finishing 14th and 15th in the championship. Whilst we were opening the chequebook after what some claimed was our best ever transfer window in the Premier League

You’re using the benefit of hindsight to fuel your argument.

Once the Dingles were taken over by Fosun, the potential was always there.  Even Steve Morgan had grand plans for them, just that Jez Moxey was a bit poor in the job.  Hurts to say but ever since Jack Hayward took them over they've thrown money at it.

Hand on your heart do you classify Albion as a small club, be honest?

When I was a young boy Albion were close to the top of the tree in Division 1.  Tales of glorious teams from my GrandFather (RIP) and Father, wow this is a team worth supporting. 

If you were there almost exactly 32 years ago v Everton in the FA Cup - 31,000 with thousands locked out.  And that was in 1989 in the lower reaches of Division 2.  The potential was still there, absolutely.

The question of "size of West Bromwich Albion" divides many Throstles fans.  A good barometer is the question are you embarrassed about the size of the West Stand?  My answer is yes, I'm embarrassed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on January 01, 2021, 01:40:25 PM
Think fosun vs lai is irrelevant. All I wanted was peace to treat existing shareholders fairly, sell the club to an owner that would grow the company and not over value the asset to a gullible buyer. I think Lai is only guilty of being out of his depth, he tried to back pullis but had a poor management team in place and blew it.
Had we been valued at 100$m we would of had a chance of a sale.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 01, 2021, 01:45:55 PM
Hand on your heart do you classify Albion as a small club, be honest

If you want my honest opinion, then it’s nothing something that remotely bothers me. The Willy waving contests of who are bigger than who frustrate the life out of me.

I go to watch the Albion, regardless of division, size of stands, players or the incumbent in the managerial seat or custodian of the club.

Whether we’re big, small, medium, massive, infinite - I’m really not bothered. It really doesn’t interest me nor affect my following of the club.

I get far more pleasure out of the good stuff the club and sport brings rather than focusing on trivial contests.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on January 01, 2021, 01:47:51 PM
I think overall Peace did a good job for the club but also made plenty of mistakes along the way (like we all do) and there are similarities between now and then.

He learnt from his mistakes, when we first went up under Megson we were lacking quality and there were soundings of lack of investment, the same second time when we went up but Robson came in and was allowed a couple of loans and freebies and kept us up with the great escape. Next year, again the same thing happened, the difference was in the January we didnt strengthen (if i recall Robson wanted Hasselbaink and Ehigo) and we went down with a whimper.

Peace then began to change the setup, he got Ashworth, he got Mowbray in, we went for young and hungry, and they said they had a shortlist of managers and players for when one needed replacing, thats why we went for Di Matteo. After that Hodgson fell into our lap, a proven manager, looking to prove a point after recently leaving a big club and with a history of doing well at clubs like Albion.

We then went back to the young and upcoming with Clarke, maybe he was sacked too early, but after that the wheels came off, Peace was then in the end game and eventually after the Mel and Irvine appointments he settled on Pulis as he knew that was the best chance to keep us up.

The key time was the Ashworth / Mowbray era, we were brave, had a plan and took a risk, knowing that there would be downsides too (we didnt go up first attempt under Mowbray and were also relegated) but there was a plan and people brought into it, ideally we would be looking to do that now but there are two big differences -

1) Expectations - Because we spent 8 years in the premier league, a lot of fans expectations has changed, as stated two of our three seasons under Mowbray we failed in our objective, we lost in the playoffs and got relegated but as a fan, certainly the first two years of his reign i enjoyed as much as most in my 30 odd years of going, even the premier league had its enjoyable moments. The key thing we didnt sack him when we didnt go up and we wouldnt of when we went down, he chose to walk.

As we have seen with the Darren Moore sacking when 4th in the league and with Bilic being sacked, those days are gone sadly, our fanbase wont be as patient as they were back then.

2) Whatever Peace sold the club for, he was always going to make a big profit, he got involved and helped built the club to a stable premier league club, even with relegations, our cloth was cut, so he was never going to lose money from his own pocket, if we had sold for £50m in the championship or £150m in the premier league, it was still mainly profit for him, of course an extra £100m is nice! But had worse case scenario for him, we had been relegated and not gone up, he would of still made a lot of money, the pressure wasnt off but he wanted the extra £100m and got Pulis to ensure it.

The difference now is we are answering to investors and any investment expects returns, long term plans and visions dont exist when you have taken a big hit on your investment like they did when were relegated, 17th in the premier league every season, thats our clubs aims, keeps the money coming in and increases the value of the club for sale value.

Peace didnt really answer to anyone, Lai answers to the consortium, if they arent getting returns, they want answers, they arent bothering about an attractive team in 5 years time, they want results now. Thats why i dont blame Dowling too much, his boss is Lai and as he has to deliver now, he plays the safe option of buying british, ideally we would be looking abroad and getting value for our money but you cant tell that to the investors when they are asking why we are in the championship, i expect any signings we make in January will be british or played here previous, the way we are run we dont have time for people to settle in, its now now now.

As for who Peace sold too, i think as Jacko said back then chinese football was big, big name players were going there and they were investing in clubs, their leaders wanted to make them a football superpower, within a few years that had changed and now we stuck with each other but Lai did say it would be business as usual, the thing i dont like is when Dowling says one thing about our budget, then we do another, just be honest.

Peace was a businessman and he hit a gold mine getting involved in Albion when he did, as a businessman he would sell for the best price possible, he isnt a billionaire and very few businesses would settle for less to appease their customers (us) it just doesnt work like that as much as we would like to think it would and at the time he sold to investors from the next big football super power, sadly things changed.

Personally i feel the biggest fault Peace did was appoint Pulis because the second we did that we tore up any plan or vision, i dont dislike Pulis, he gets results but you know when you are getting when you appoint him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on January 01, 2021, 01:52:02 PM
If you want my honest opinion, then it’s nothing something that remotely bothers me. The Willy waving contests of who are bigger than who frustrate the life out of me.

I go to watch the Albion, regardless of division, size of stands, players or the incumbent in the managerial seat or custodian of the club.

Whether we’re big, small, medium, massive, infinite - I’m really not bothered. It really doesn’t interest me nor affect my following of the club.

I get far more pleasure out of the good stuff the club and sport brings rather than focusing on trivial contests.

Can I just add THIS with knobs on and thanks to Liam
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: GREGMT on January 01, 2021, 01:58:45 PM
If you want my honest opinion, then it’s nothing something that remotely bothers me. The Willy waving contests of who are bigger than who frustrate the life out of me.

I go to watch the Albion, regardless of division, size of stands, players or the incumbent in the managerial seat or custodian of the club.

Whether we’re big, small, medium, massive, infinite - I’m really not bothered. It really doesn’t interest me nor affect my following of the club.

I get far more pleasure out of the good stuff the club and sport brings rather than focusing on trivial contests.

Well to me, image is important.  You've just sat on the fence there, which is frustrating.  We are portrayed as a small club in the media with a distinct lack of respect. Even 11,000 capacity Bournemouth attracted an owner with clout.

This is alien to how I viewed the club as a young boy, then teenager, then young adult.  Even in 1991/92 in Division 3 we were seen as a sleeping giant.

Doesn't club infrastructure and perception of size influence fan expectations?  Because it should do.

All that pressure on Bilic for what exactly?  We shouldn't be in this division if we are a small club/operate on a small budget.  People need to clear this 8 year stay from the minds, it was not a true reflection of what our standing as a club should be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
Think fosun vs lai is irrelevant. All I wanted was peace to treat existing shareholders fairly, sell the club to an owner that would grow the company and not over value the asset to a gullible buyer. I think Lai is only guilty of being out of his depth, he tried to back pullis but had a poor management team in place and blew it.
Had we been valued at 100$m we would of had a chance of a sale.

But our market value wasn’t £100m, it was nearly double that.  Willing seller, willing buyer.

The reason we didn’t attract other buyers is because we had no debt and were incredibly well run financially.  The price represented that.  If we’d been a financial basket case like Villa or Wolves then we’d have attracted buyers who wanted to buy for a low price and plough in money to achieve an upside.  There was no upside when Lai bought us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 01, 2021, 02:24:54 PM
What is the benchmark for comparison though in the small club/big club debate?

WBA v Mansfield then we’re a big club.

WBA v Real Madrid then we’re a small club.

On the full pyramid picture we’re a medium sized club at the very least.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 01, 2021, 02:50:44 PM
Well to me, image is important.  You've just sat on the fence there, which is frustrating.  We are portrayed as a small club in the media with a distinct lack of respect. Even 11,000 capacity Bournemouth attracted an owner with clout.

This is alien to how I viewed the club as a young boy, then teenager, then young adult.  Even in 1991/92 in Division 3 we were seen as a sleeping giant.

Doesn't club infrastructure and perception of size influence fan expectations?  Because it should do.

All that pressure on Bilic for what exactly?  We shouldn't be in this division if we are a small club/operate on a small budget.  People need to clear this 8 year stay from the minds, it was not a true reflection of what our standing as a club should be.

Agredd. Theres a video on YouTube of Saint and Greavsie showing highlights of our game vs Port Vale at Wembley and they talk about how huge a club we are and certainly were in their playing days
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: GREGMT on January 01, 2021, 03:16:24 PM
The worst decade in our history was the 1990's and for younger fans this dark period has diluted expectations accordingly.

It was more akin to where we find ourselves now; terrible chairman, awful transfer policy and most importantly a massive crash in revenue as the supporter base turn their backs after the glory of the late 70's & early 80's.  Gate money was massively important back then. The similarity between 1985/86 and 2020/21 is stark.

For me the annoyance with Peace is twofold; 1) the lack of his own money invested 2) the failure to build a bigger stadium.  He intentionally tried to crush fan expectations. 

He was right in saying Sky TV money was king over attendance money, the downside was image.  Right now in terms of refereeing decisions we are right at the bottom, 20th place.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 01, 2021, 04:05:30 PM
I actually wonder if Lai is still our owner. I seem to remember that when he took over , some thought he was a 'front' for a large organisation in China. Not that I expect to, but the fact that we have heard absolutely zippo either about him or from him does make me wonder.

I know Ken is a relative but that does not confirm ownership or Lai's status......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 01, 2021, 04:27:34 PM
I actually wonder if Lai is still our owner. I seem to remember that when he took over , some thought he was a 'front' for a large organisation in China. Not that I expect to, but the fact that we have heard absolutely zippo either about him or from him does make me wonder.

I know Ken is a relative but that does not confirm ownership or Lai's status......

Any change of owner has to be registered with the Premier League, hence why all that conjecture on the AG and CL podcast went quiet. Lai is still owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 01, 2021, 04:35:14 PM
Any change of owner has to be registered with the Premier League, hence why all that conjecture on the AG and CL podcast went quiet. Lai is still owner.

CL made a mistake? There’s a first  ;D he’s always quick enough to pick up on errors, I wonder what he’s said about his own.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 01, 2021, 05:04:20 PM
The worst decade in our history was the 1990's and for younger fans this dark period has diluted expectations accordingly.

It was more akin to where we find ourselves now; terrible chairman, awful transfer policy and most importantly a massive crash in revenue as the supporter base turn their backs after the glory of the late 70's & early 80's.  Gate money was massively important back then. The similarity between 1985/86 and 2020/21 is stark.

For me the annoyance with Peace is twofold; 1) the lack of his own money invested 2) the failure to build a bigger stadium.  He intentionally tried to crush fan expectations. 

He was right in saying Sky TV money was king over attendance money, the downside was image.  Right now in terms of refereeing decisions we are right at the bottom, 20th place.

I do agree with this - historically WBA are massive. I do think you slightly misunderstood the intent behind Liam's comments though, and I totally get what he means. When I was a little kid - long, long ago - my Grandad led me to believe that the mighty Albion were the finest team and club in the country. And there is a part of me that still believes this come what may. So the rest of thew world can get stuffed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 01, 2021, 05:08:35 PM
I do agree with this - historically WBA are massive. I do think you slightly misunderstood the intent behind Liam's comments though, and I totally get what he means. When I was a little kid - long, long ago - my Grandad led me to believe that the mighty Albion were the finest team and club in the country. And there is a part of me that still believes this come what may. So the rest of thew world can get stuffed.

I think it's about pedigree & WBA have loads of that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 01, 2021, 06:41:24 PM
I entirely agree with Liam the whole my club is bigger than yours willy waving exercise is just about the most futile thing in football. You know what Dave Whelan threw enough money at Wigan Athletic to get them into the Premier League and keep them there for 8 seasons. During that period Wigan were bigger than every one of the clubs that weren't in Premier League including us Leeds Forest etc.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 01, 2021, 07:35:51 PM
I entirely agree with Liam the whole my club is bigger than yours willy waving exercise is just about the most futile thing in football. You know what Dave Whelan threw enough money at Wigan Athletic to get them into the Premier League and keep them there for 8 seasons. During that period Wigan were bigger than every one of the clubs that weren't in Premier League including us Leeds Forest etc.

Everything about our club is incredibly stale and small minded. In the summer a number of premier league fans questioned what the point of West Brom was, and they weren't far from the truth. We can either look to improve on and off the pitch or we can accept we are little second tier club with no status in the game. What's shocks me is not only the lack of ambition and vision in the boardroom but also in the stands; which sums up my less than positive view of the the local area, depressing and decayed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 01, 2021, 07:53:10 PM
Everything about our club is incredibly stale and small minded. In the summer a number of premier league fans questioned what the point of West Brom was, and they weren't far from the truth. We can either look to improve on and off the pitch or we can accept we are little second tier club with no status in the game. What's shocks me is not only the lack of ambition and vision in the boardroom but also in the stands; which sums up my less than positive view of the the local area, depressing and decayed.


Tin hat time lads  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 01, 2021, 09:04:27 PM
Everything about our club is incredibly stale and small minded. In the summer a number of premier league fans questioned what the point of West Brom was, and they weren't far from the truth. We can either look to improve on and off the pitch or we can accept we are little second tier club with no status in the game. What's shocks me is not only the lack of ambition and vision in the boardroom but also in the stands; which sums up my less than positive view of the the local area, depressing and decayed.

I can’t argue with any of that. Good post.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 01, 2021, 09:34:11 PM
JP with his masterful manipulation gave him free reign to go unchallenged. I dont like it but i gotta respect it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on January 01, 2021, 11:00:06 PM
Everything about our club is incredibly stale and small minded. In the summer a number of premier league fans questioned what the point of West Brom was, and they weren't far from the truth. We can either look to improve on and off the pitch or we can accept we are little second tier club with no status in the game. What's shocks me is not only the lack of ambition and vision in the boardroom but also in the stands; which sums up my less than positive view of the the local area, depressing and decayed.
why do i care about their opinion? i think the same about most of the league.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 02, 2021, 12:24:29 PM
why do i care about their opinion? i think the same about most of the league.

I agree with you on this.

Too much worth is placed on the opinion of others.

If fans don’t like us, then fantastic. I’m happy with that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 02, 2021, 03:41:50 PM
Couldn't give a monkeys of what other fans think of our club, especially those who watch the rich clubs glory hunters where were they when their clubs were **** because they have been.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 02, 2021, 09:32:31 PM
McManaman just said the owner was here? Presume he's just mistaken Ken?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on January 02, 2021, 09:37:33 PM
No chance Lai is here. Must mean Ken.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 02, 2021, 09:56:38 PM
His investment is worth Jack right now.

No offence, Jacko.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on January 02, 2021, 10:17:13 PM
Mr Lai....a huge loss coming your way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 02, 2021, 10:18:36 PM
Mr Lai....a huge loss coming your way.

Well deserved too. Treating a PL club like a passive investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 02, 2021, 10:22:14 PM
I would not bother getting out check book were down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 02, 2021, 10:24:10 PM
I would not bother getting out check book were down.

Next year we will be financially well off with all the big contracts ending and if we had a half-decent transfer department i'd be positive for the long-term but not with these lot in charge. I fear they will mess it up royally.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on January 03, 2021, 04:59:43 PM
Lai (Ken) needs to accept that this season is gone and concentrate on consolidating, we clearly have some capable flair players but need more backbone to compete in the prem.

I'm not a fan of the Noble, Henderson, run all day type of player but they are a necessary evil, many of us relished the Mulumbu / Scharner era and if thats whats required then  the club has to add that type of player to what we already have.

Take the opportunity to clear out the has beens, add some legs / tackling and re-group with a young manager and a 3 year plan,

Lai is not going get his 180-200m this season or next, so he should accept this and build to achieving it year 3 IMO
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 03, 2021, 05:26:42 PM
Lai (Ken) needs to accept that this season is gone and concentrate on consolidating, we clearly have some capable flair players but need more backbone to compete in the prem.

I'm not a fan of the Noble, Henderson, run all day type of player but they are a necessary evil, many of us relished the Mulumbu / Scharner era and if thats whats required then  the club has to add that type of player to what we already have.

Take the opportunity to clear out the has beens, add some legs / tackling and re-group with a young manager and a 3 year plan,

Lai is not going get his 180-200m this season or next, so he should accept this and build to achieving it year 3 IMO


100% agree, in principle, but we don't know what pressure Lai is under in China.

Simon Chadwick has said recently, that he would be under considerable scrutiny.

It's probably that scrutiny that's made this a pressure pot situation.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 03, 2021, 06:07:04 PM
100% agree, in principle, but we don't know what pressure Lai is under in China.

I guess he is by no means obliged to put us in the picture but a bit of communication wouldn't half go a long way with the support base.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 03, 2021, 06:34:40 PM
I guess he is by no means obliged to put us in the picture but a bit of communication wouldn't half go a long way with the support base.

To admit that he's got a problem would be seen as failure, not a great position in Chinese culture.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 03, 2021, 06:43:29 PM
To admit that he's got a problem would be seen as failure, not a great position in Chinese culture.

Of course; makes sense. Not that it helps us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on January 03, 2021, 07:11:59 PM

100% agree, in principle, but we don't know what pressure Lai is under in China.

Simon Chadwick has said recently, that he would be under considerable scrutiny.

It's probably that scrutiny that's made this a pressure pot situation.



If he’s under massive scrutiny in China if we go down does he asset strip the club and try and make his money back that way?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 03, 2021, 07:29:50 PM
If he’s under massive scrutiny in China if we go down does he asset strip the club and try and make his money back that way?

80% of assets are in player registrations, not sure how you asset strip that.

As others have said, all of the solutions are long term.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 03, 2021, 07:30:24 PM
Can anyone clarify by what they mean when they say ‘asset strip’?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 03, 2021, 07:53:45 PM
Can anyone clarify by what they mean when they say ‘asset strip’?

Imagine you're doing a house clearance.

You buy the contents of the house and some might be quite valuable.

Assets are things you can sell to raise cash.

So asset stripping is buying a business & selling it's assets to raise cash.

WBA assets are the buildings & land plus plant & equipment, together with player registrations.

The asset value of the WBAFC business is around £70 million of which around £60 million is player registrations.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 03, 2021, 08:30:46 PM
80% of assets are in player registrations, not sure how you asset strip that.

As others have said, all of the solutions are long term.

As I’ve said multiple times on these forum pages, he can’t asset strip.  Company law prevents it.  He’s not owed any money (other than potentially £23m that I haven’t got to the bottom of yet, but that won’t go very far in China) so can’t really extract it as debt repayments and dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves, of which there are hardly any.

The 12% owned by the minority shareholders is important as they all have minority shareholders’ rights and would need to be given ample notice of anything “odd”.

Lai would get far more from selling the club at a big loss than he would get from any attempt to asset strip.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 03, 2021, 08:31:52 PM
Imagine you're doing a house clearance.

You buy the contents of the house and some might be quite valuable.

Assets are things you can sell to raise cash.

So asset stripping is buying a business & selling it's assets to raise cash.

WBA assets are the buildings & land plus plant & equipment, together with player registrations.

The asset value of the WBAFC business is around £70 million of which around £60 million is player registrations.

Our assets would not outweigh the overall value of the club though so why would Lai do that?

What is left after ‘asset stripping’ would be worth nothing. It’s like selling your windows, doors, etc in your house then leaving a worthless shell when you would be better off just lowering your asking price to get more money overall.

It’s a Nonsense to suggest asset stripping.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 03, 2021, 08:34:33 PM
As I’ve said multiple times on these forum pages, he can’t asset strip.  Company law prevents it.  He’s not owed any money (other than potentially £23m that I haven’t got to the bottom of yet, but that won’t go very far in China) so can’t really extract it as debt repayments and dividends can only be paid out of distributable reserves, of which there are hardly any.

The 12% owned by the minority shareholders is important as they all have minority shareholders’ rights and would need to be given ample notice of anything “odd”.

Lai would get far more from selling the club at a big loss than he would get from any attempt to asset strip.

I knew someone had explained it before hence I asked the question again and to put the asset stripping nonsense to bed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on January 04, 2021, 04:23:05 PM
Whoever owns the club must realise we need to be in the premier at the end of this season to get anywhere near the money it was bought for. I think we all agree he is desperate to sell and that is why these desperate measures are no taking place.
It remains to be sen how much he is willing to cough up but I have a feeling he will go for broke.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on January 04, 2021, 04:55:16 PM
Our assets would not outweigh the overall value of the club though so why would Lai do that?

What is left after ‘asset stripping’ would be worth nothing. It’s like selling your windows, doors, etc in your house then leaving a worthless shell when you would be better off just lowering your asking price to get more money overall.

It’s a Nonsense to suggest asset stripping.

There's the land often worth more than the buildings in some areas - possibly not B71
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 04, 2021, 07:42:18 PM
Just listened to the Joe Masi podcast.

He confirmed that we spent £47 million on transfer fees in summer 2020.

Also expects some additions to be in place by the Wolves game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 04, 2021, 07:51:56 PM
Just listened to the Joe Masi podcast.

He confirmed that we spent £47 million on transfer fees in summer 2020.

Also expects some additions to be in place by the Wolves game.

Sounds impressive but it’s not. £21m was spent upfront. The remaining £26m is due to clubs over the next five years. We have a guaranteed income of £120m in the next two years from parachute payments.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 04, 2021, 08:09:30 PM
Sounds impressive but it’s not. £21m was spent upfront. The remaining £26m is due to clubs over the next five years. We have a guaranteed income of £120m in the next two years from parachute payments.

So 120-26 = £94 million of which around £60 million will be for wages (assuming we're relegated).

Leaving £34 million to fund additions to the squad over 2 seasons.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on January 04, 2021, 08:46:35 PM
Lets face it, for our club, a self sustaining model in the premier league is not possible when you get promoted.  The gap between the Championship and EPL is so big you just can't compete without investment above the conservative plan. You have to get into the premier league and stay there for a few years to have a chance of making that a reality. Lai bought us when it should have been possible but i don't think he knew what he was doing and trusted the wrong people. The long term plan of going down and back up is probably the best plan but i don't think Lai is confident in running a club on that plan. i suspect he will sell at a lower price but after he has lost hope of keeping us in the prem.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on January 04, 2021, 09:23:35 PM
£21m was spent upfront. The remaining £26m is due to clubs over the next five years. We have a guaranteed income of £120m in the next two years from parachute payments.
What will we have coming in, if anything, from players we've (already) sold, do you know? So basically the incoming equivalent of that £26M.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2021, 09:28:59 PM
Sounds impressive but it’s not. £21m was spent upfront. The remaining £26m is due to clubs over the next five years. We have a guaranteed income of £120m in the next two years from parachute payments.

It’s still “spent”.  You can only spend the same money once.  The vast majority of transfer fees are “factored” to the likes of Macquarie and paid over 3-4 years, to be paid from future cash flow. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 04, 2021, 09:47:31 PM
What will we have coming in, if anything, from players we've (already) sold, do you know? So basically the incoming equivalent of that £26M.

From accounts to June 2019 (latest accounts)

Amounts owed in more than one year (i.e. future financial years)

Owed to us = £5.4 million

Owed by us = £4.6 million

Net owed to us = £0.8 million
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 04, 2021, 09:57:50 PM
It’s still “spent”.  You can only spend the same money once.  The vast majority of transfer fees are “factored” to the likes of Macquarie and paid over 3-4 years, to be paid from future cash flow.

From the accounts, we don't appear to factor much of our debts.

Creditor & debtor entries for more than one year are only about 20% of the value of current year.

I understand that accounts for year ending June 2020 don't now need to be submitted until June 2021, so we should see if there's any change in policy then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 04, 2021, 10:09:26 PM
Just listened to the Joe Masi podcast.

He confirmed that we spent £47 million on transfer fees in summer 2020.

Also expects some additions to be in place by the Wolves game.

Grant 15m
Diangana 12m (potentially. rising to £17m)
Kipre £1m
Button £1m
Pereira £8m
Robinson £2m (in addition to Burke)
Krov loan fee
Gallagher loan fee

Forgetting the factoring, you could spin that we did commit to spending approximately £47m, which shocks me a little now I see it written down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 04, 2021, 10:26:25 PM
If a lender has a charge against the clubs assets or a future income flow then these are registered at Companies House. There seem to be two in place at the moment. One is broad floating charge on pretty much everything current and future in favour of Barclays and I am guessing that is an overdraft (totally standard terms) and the other in favour of MacQuarie Bank specifically relating to the Dawson fee.

I am not sure about how quickly any charge needs to be lodged with companies house but I am guessing it is more timely than the report and accounts.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on January 04, 2021, 10:33:13 PM
the other in favour of MacQuarie Bank specifically relating to the Dawson fee.
What's that about, do you know?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on January 04, 2021, 10:34:44 PM
From accounts to June 2019 (latest accounts)
Thanks!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on January 04, 2021, 10:56:26 PM
If a lender has a charge against the clubs assets or a future income flow then these are registered at Companies House. There seem to be two in place at the moment. One is broad floating charge on pretty much everything current and future in favour of Barclays and I am guessing that is an overdraft (totally standard terms) and the other in favour of MacQuarie Bank specifically relating to the Dawson fee.

I am not sure about how quickly any charge needs to be lodged with companies house but I am guessing it is more timely than the report and accounts.

From what I’m aware any charge need to be registered at companies house within 3 weeks of the date of the charge
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2021, 11:08:03 PM
What's that about, do you know?

Watford owed us for Dawson, payable over 2/3 years.  We factored that debt by borrowing against it from Macquarie Bank to be able to use the cash immediately rather than waiting 2/3 years for it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 04, 2021, 11:20:24 PM
Lai. A man with no credibility. Sell and GO !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 04, 2021, 11:21:08 PM
From what I can gather from 35 pages of legalese the MacQuarie charge hands over the rights to what looks like the 2nd instalment of the Dawson fee (£2.3m) which is due September this year. It also refers to £470k of sell on fee to be lodged with the EFL for onward transmission to Rochdale.

 As far as I can make out there is no reference in the Charge to what the club has received in exchange for signing over the rights. Typically on transfer factoring it will be something in the region of 4 to 5 percent of the receivable amount 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2021, 11:35:02 PM
From what I can gather from 35 pages of legalese the MacQuarie charge hands over the rights to what looks like the 2nd instalment of the Dawson fee (£2.3m) which is due September this year. It also refers to £470k of sell on fee to be lodged with the EFL for onward transmission to Rochdale.

 As far as I can make out there is no reference in the Charge to what the club has received in exchange for signing over the rights. Typically on transfer factoring it will be something in the region of 4 to 5 percent of the receivable amount

Isn’t is the other way round?

Watford owed us £2.3m so Macquarie pay us cash now of (say) £2.1m and so we sign over to Macquarie all rights in respect of that £2.3m due from Watford and Macquarie pocket the extra £200k as their fee.  The security document is the charge over that £2.3m fee.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 04, 2021, 11:42:02 PM
Isn’t is the other way round?

Watford owed us £2.3m so Macquarie pay us cash now of (say) £2.1m and so we sign over to Macquarie all rights in respect of that £2.3m due from Watford and Macquarie pocket the extra £200k as their fee.  The security document is the charge over that £2.3m fee.

You're both saying the same thing.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 05, 2021, 12:05:37 AM
You're both saying the same thing.  ;D

No - Standaman’s 2nd paragraph queried how much we received for transferring the rights. In my example the club would have paid, not received, £200,000 for handing over the rights as security (the effective “fee”) in order to receive the discounted cash sum now.   Not quite the same thing.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 05, 2021, 09:19:16 AM
No - Standaman’s 2nd paragraph queried how much we received for transferring the rights. In my example the club would have paid, not received, £200,000 for handing over the rights as security (the effective “fee”) in order to receive the discounted cash sum now.   Not quite the same thing.

Which is what I was trying to convey I might have worded it better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on January 05, 2021, 12:42:33 PM
Thanks, both/all of you. It was the first I'd heard of that which was why I asked.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 05, 2021, 01:39:55 PM
Thanks, both/all of you. It was the first I'd heard of that which was why I asked.

I think the point we're trying to make is that it would be suicidal to mortgage this seasons spending against income for future seasons & building up a mountain of debt.

It's the route most of the basket case clubs have taken.

Personally, while I accept that staged payments are an option, I've not seen any evidence from the accounts of clubs of our size that it's a widespread practice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 11, 2021, 01:35:04 PM
Hearing that a deal to buy the club could take place in the next few months, but no formal or expectable offers yet
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 11, 2021, 04:37:25 PM
The £4m owing the club has, apparently, accrued interest of £1m so far and Lai doesn't have the funds to pay it off because of the pandemic, allegedly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 11, 2021, 05:54:25 PM
The £4m owing the club has, apparently, accrued interest of £1m so far and Lai doesn't have the funds to pay it off because of the pandemic, allegedly

Where have you heard that from?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 11, 2021, 06:07:40 PM
Where have you heard that from?

From a shareholder
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 11, 2021, 06:13:39 PM
The £4m owing the club has, apparently, accrued interest of £1m so far and Lai doesn't have the funds to pay it off because of the pandemic, allegedly

According to the club's accounts, it accrues interest at 5% above BoE base rates, & is payable on demand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 11, 2021, 06:18:07 PM
The £4m owing the club has, apparently, accrued interest of £1m so far and Lai doesn't have the funds to pay it off because of the pandemic, allegedly

Sounds plausible until this part which sounds like hearsay.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 11, 2021, 06:35:28 PM
Sounds plausible until this part which sounds like hearsay.

It wasn’t hearsay, it was given as the reason for none payment and I did qualify by “allegedly”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 11, 2021, 06:45:31 PM
It wasn’t hearsay, it was given as the reason for none payment and I did qualify by “allegedly”

Just don't see that anyone knows Lai's financial position Colin.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 11, 2021, 07:00:14 PM
Just don't see that anyone knows Lai's financial position Colin.

I’m told It was a quote by Ken at a recent meeting with S4A
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 12, 2021, 10:33:10 AM
The £4m owing the club has, apparently, accrued interest of £1m so far and Lai doesn't have the funds to pay it off because of the pandemic, allegedly

Seems strange he hasn't paid it because of a shortage of funds due to the pandemic when the official party line for some time has been he can't pay it because he can't get money out of China.

I wonder if this will become the new party line (reason/ready made excuse given) should the Chinese government relax it's rules on foreign investments.

Ed: whatever the original reason for none payment I'm thinking he's hoping to pass the debt onto any prospective buyer, on the grounds he has no intention of throwing more good money after bad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 12, 2021, 11:57:32 AM
Seems strange he hasn't paid it because of a shortage of funds due to the pandemic when the official party line for some time has been he can't pay it because he can't get money out of China.

I wonder if this will become the new party line (reason/ready made excuse given) should the Chinese government relax it's rules on foreign investments.

Ed: whatever the original reason for none payment I'm thinking he's hoping to pass the debt onto any prospective buyer, on the grounds he has no intention of throwing more good money after bad.

You'd be correct in that assumption
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on January 12, 2021, 12:04:17 PM
Grant 15m
Diangana 12m (potentially. rising to £17m)
Kipre £1m
Button £1m
Pereira £8m
Robinson £2m (in addition to Burke)
Krov loan fee
Gallagher loan fee

Forgetting the factoring, you could spin that we did commit to spending approximately £47m, which shocks me a little now I see it written down.

£8m for Periera was allegedly already allocated for.  So in reality, this season, we spent on Grant and Diangana - the others are negligible.  Shows how much you actually need to spend when you need to bring in 6 or 7 players, all that will be 1st choice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 13, 2021, 10:42:15 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9144317/West-Brom-facing-three-way-takeover-battle-owner-Lai-Guochuan-desperate-sell.html

Very interesting!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on January 13, 2021, 10:50:09 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9144317/West-Brom-facing-three-way-takeover-battle-owner-Lai-Guochuan-desperate-sell.html

Very interesting!!
I wonder how accurate that is. I just can't see Lai selling for £105 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 13, 2021, 10:51:52 PM
I wonder how accurate that is. I just can't see Lai selling for £105 million.

There comes a time when he has to get out at some point.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on January 13, 2021, 11:02:59 PM
Sounds like things are moving along though which is great news to hear

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on January 13, 2021, 11:03:12 PM
There comes a time when he has to get out at some point.
True I guess, but he won't take a £75 million loss. No way. Of course, there may well be better bids. We'll see.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 13, 2021, 11:05:20 PM
True I guess, but he won't take a £75 million loss. No way. Of course, there may well be better bids. We'll see.

China is a strange place. There’s no telling what he may need to do. It plays by many different rules.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 13, 2021, 11:05:35 PM
Campbell would be interesting. Associated with John Park previously of Celtic, credited with finding Van Dijk among others.

As Timdon says though, value seems on the low side to be palatable to GL.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 13, 2021, 11:10:11 PM
Our club won't be worth more than £75m on relegation so he'd be lucky to get anything north of £100m IMV. If we are sold we have to pray it is to a buyer with 1) very deep pockets and 2) willingness to invest in the club; otherwise it will just be another sideways move (or worse).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 13, 2021, 11:11:08 PM
That non PL offer is very generous and as its very likely i'd be snapping his hand off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on January 13, 2021, 11:13:01 PM
Lai is never going to get 200m for the club.

He overpaid for it in the first place.

I know there are factors involved but what would people value us at?

£125-140m would be my guess as a Prem club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 13, 2021, 11:13:26 PM
He wants £200m

He’s having a laugh if he thinks he’s getting anywhere near that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 13, 2021, 11:13:49 PM
Lai is never going to get 200m for the club.

He overpaid for it in the first place.

I know there are factors involved but what would people value us at?

£125-140m would be my guess as a Prem club

PL: £125m but as we are 95% relegated no more than £75m
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 13, 2021, 11:14:22 PM
Thats why the 105m offer is relegated is very generous.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 13, 2021, 11:14:58 PM
Campbell would be interesting. Associated with John Park previously of Celtic, credited with finding Van Dijk among others.

As Timdon says though, value seems on the low side to be palatable to GL.

Campbell has an extremely murky business background and seeks to be a man of straw.  Fit and proper?  Don’t think so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on January 13, 2021, 11:15:52 PM
PL: £125m but as we are 95% relegated no more than £75m

I think 80-100m relegated.

And that’s being generous

The less the buyer pays though the more investment we may see.

Well we hope
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 13, 2021, 11:18:14 PM
Campbell has an extremely murky business background and seeks to be a man of straw.  Fit and proper?  Don’t think so.

Well worth a read

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/rokerreport.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2020/7/15/21324189/the-key-players-linked-with-mark-campbells-alleged-sunderland-takeover
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on January 13, 2021, 11:29:40 PM
Based on that Daily Mail article i hope Campbell isnt the preferred bidder.

He sounds a fantasist, companies fail and people learn (though 20 dissolved is maybe pushing it), but the worry would be why he doesnt seem to have any companies that are credible in terms of not registering accounts, etc.

I can see the appeal in a sunderland as there is potential but trying to take over Falkirk seems a bit odd, i would be very sceptical if i was dealing with this bloke.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 13, 2021, 11:35:53 PM
Based on that Daily Mail article i hope Campbell isnt the preferred bidder.

He sounds a fantasist, companies fail and people learn (though 20 dissolved is maybe pushing it), but the worry would be why he doesnt seem to have any companies that are credible in terms of not registering accounts, etc.

I can see the appeal in a sunderland as there is potential but trying to take over Falkirk seems a bit odd, i would be very sceptical if i was dealing with this bloke.

Count your fingers....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on January 14, 2021, 12:05:40 AM
Lai is notoriously difficult to get near and so the Daily Mail article will almost certainly have come from a different source.

Considering Campbell’s failed efforts to buy Sunderland and Falkirk both made the press with him being publicly  open about his interest suggests he may well be the source of this latest story.

I hope to god it isn’t true, well at-least that it isn’t Campbell as he seems like a worrying chancer with no real means.

A worrying development if it is him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: 65baggie on January 14, 2021, 12:08:15 AM
Disaster if Campbell is involved. One of the business associates linked to Campbell worked with Big Sam as an analyst at Palace and Everton. 10 mins on Google and it’s scary reading. Hope any bid connected to him is kicked into touch and he gets nowhere near our club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 14, 2021, 12:39:40 AM
You might not like Lai but you have to pray that Mark Campbell and any associated chancers get nowhere near the club.

 My one hope is that there are two other parties also interested neither of whom are named in the Mail article and as a rule of thumb serious people with serious intent generally keep a low profile in these matters until a deal has been struck. Chancers on the other hand like to see their name in the newspaper as it makes them feel important.

I am really nervous about this. Lai plainly wants to sell and there isn't any scenario where he can get his initial investment back and the price should be something in the region of £100m and probably a lot less in the Championship.

Nobody is going to buy the club and run it in a manner which fans are going to be happy with it really is that simple.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 14, 2021, 01:06:11 AM
Can it get any worse? Bloke had no funds to buy third tier side in Sunderland or a mickey mouse Scottish club. Ebenezer two has arrived, he will buy the bloody club with future earnings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on January 14, 2021, 01:19:37 AM
You might not like Lai but you have to pray that Mark Campbell and any associated chancers get nowhere near the club.

 My one hope is that there are two other parties also interested neither of whom are named in the Mail article and as a rule of thumb serious people with serious intent generally keep a low profile in these matters until a deal has been struck. Chancers on the other hand like to see their name in the newspaper as it makes them feel important.

I am really nervous about this. Lai plainly wants to sell and there isn't any scenario where he can get his initial investment back and the price should be something in the region of £100m and probably a lot less in the Championship.

Nobody is going to buy the club and run it in a manner which fans are going to be happy with it really is that simple.

Agree with most of what you have said, as this will be another roll of the dice and the lack of names makes you feel really concerned about who we could end up with, especially after the developing situation with the Burnley take over and the mess at Derby, but I have to disagree with the last line.

There are clubs out there who I would love us to emulate. The obvious example is Leicester City, where the King Power group have been excellent (not so much for their fortuitous league title, but more what has followed since). Matthew Benham at Brentford has adopted his analytics models to take a small team to the edge of premier league without any real investment.

Moneyball’s Billy Beane has linked up with Chinese investors at Barnsley and predictably they have gone from league 1 to the edge of the championship play offs with some under the radar, smart low cost decisions.

Tony Bloom has taken Brighton from the lower leagues to an established Prem side, Maxim Demin has had similar success at Bournemouth while Villa’s new owners have expertise already in American sport and the early signs there are very good. The first few years were poor, but Fosun at Wolves have been smart (if slightly immoral) with their Mendes link up which you feel insures them for the next 10 years at least and maybe after that.

Even Southampton with Gisheng (who is rarely seen) at least have an owner who seems to have a bit of common sense and has put the right people in charge of the day to day running of the club.

I agree that we will almost certainly not get an owner who will have the ability to plow their own millions into the club, but it isn’t impossible to get a shrewd operator in who can run the club like a smart business, making decisions that will see us maximise the resources we have.

The danger lies in the 50% of owners who are toxic and sometimes quite dangerous.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 14, 2021, 03:53:45 AM
Campbell would be interesting. Associated with John Park previously of Celtic, credited with finding Van Dijk among others........

Only speed read this but the article linked below is worth bearing in mind.....

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/rokerreport.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2020/7/15/21324189/the-key-players-linked-with-mark-campbells-alleged-sunderland-takeover
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on January 14, 2021, 03:58:55 AM
It would not surprise me to see Lai sell, he did not know enough about running a club when he bought the club. I think he was under the impression the formulae JP had would keep churning on in the PL with little or no direct involvement from him. Selling now would at least yield some premium against selling while we are in the championship. if he does not sell now he may have to hold on for another three years.
i expect he will not care who he sells to, just the highest bidder who can pass the owners test from the league (a low bar to clear).   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on January 14, 2021, 06:39:10 AM
Not sure about this Campbell fella, his background seems to be more in property than sport.
He's said to 'be leading a consortium' so seems to be playing with other peoples money.
Whoever takes us over won't want to pay what Lai wants.
I think we're in for a bumpy few years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 07:43:07 AM
Not sure about this Campbell fella, his background seems to be more in property than sport.
He's said to 'be leading a consortium' so seems to be playing with other peoples money.
Whoever takes us over won't want to pay what Lai wants.
I think we're in for a bumpy few years.

His background is highly suspect to me, a 'very successful' business man with no UK business footprint to speak of. This is the sort of individual we do not want at the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on January 14, 2021, 07:50:32 AM
I worst part about it all for me is that Lai won’t give a hoot to who he sells it too, as long as he gets as much of his money back as possible then he will be happy.

Can’t say I trust the premier league to do the appropriate checks either.

Could be a bumpy few years ahead.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 14, 2021, 09:19:30 AM
West Brom owner Guochuan Lai's loan interest hits £1million

Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2021/01/14/west-brom-owner-guochuan-lais-loan-interest-hits-1million/

That's £5m now, but who is going to repay it? The current owner or the anticipated new owner?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on January 14, 2021, 09:20:08 AM
I worst part about it all for me is that Lai won’t give a hoot to who he sells it too, as long as he gets as much of his money back as possible then he will be happy.

Can’t say I trust the premier league to do the appropriate checks either.

Could be a bumpy few years ahead.

Neither did Peace.

We just have to cross our fingers that if he does sell, the people who buy the club aren't simply chances, but instead are a consortium who have a clear plan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 14, 2021, 09:25:32 AM
West Brom owner Guochuan Lai's loan interest hits £1million

Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2021/01/14/west-brom-owner-guochuan-lais-loan-interest-hits-1million/

That's £5m now, but who is going to repay it? The current owner or the anticipated new owner?

Depends if the liability is transferred over. I would hazard a guess it is wiped out one way or another upon a sale.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 09:26:40 AM
I worst part about it all for me is that Lai won’t give a hoot to who he sells it too, as long as he gets as much of his money back as possible then he will be happy.

Can’t say I trust the premier league to do the appropriate checks either.

Could be a bumpy few years ahead.

Exactly the same as Mr Peace, Lai will sell to the first person who dumps a big bag of silver on his desk.....

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 14, 2021, 09:40:03 AM
Only speed read this but the article linked below is worth bearing in mind.....

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/rokerreport.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2020/7/15/21324189/the-key-players-linked-with-mark-campbells-alleged-sunderland-takeover

I didn't necessarily mean good when I said interesting  ;D, he does seem to be associated with a couple of decent football people though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: victor mature on January 14, 2021, 10:20:13 AM
I know we can't do any
thing about it but I'd rather stick with our present owner than enter into a Wolves type spiral with dodgy owners. My worry is that we don't know long term the effect Covid will have on the viability of football.   it's more likely that the potential buyers in this current climate will be leveraged buy out merchants and asset strippers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 14, 2021, 10:47:59 AM
Usually these media hungry want to be football owners are all mouth and no trousers, hoping Lia is desperate for cash upfront which should be a problem for this consortium.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 14, 2021, 10:52:12 AM
Do we know the identity of other two bids? Read a while back that American sports company had tentative talks that went no where, don't believe it was this bloke as it would be all over the media.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 14, 2021, 11:31:20 AM
West Brom owner Guochuan Lai's loan interest hits £1million

Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2021/01/14/west-brom-owner-guochuan-lais-loan-interest-hits-1million/

That's £5m now, but who is going to repay it? The current owner or the anticipated new owner?

As I understand it, WBAFC have a debt of £23 million to WBA Holdings (wholly owned by GL). This £23 million is not subject to interest charges & is not expected to be called in

It's also the holding company who have the debt of a £3.7 million loan to WBAFC (subject to an annual interest charge of 5% above BoE base rate.). The value of the loan is now around £4.5 million.

If that's the case, then there is still a balance of circa £18.5 million in the holding companies favour.

In effect, the interest on the loan is reducing the value of the £23 million debt.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on January 14, 2021, 11:32:31 AM
Chris Lepowski said JP did sell us for well over £200m and that the premier league are still investigating our ownership, i wondered who raised the concern to the premier league about ownership? Surely its not just a fan messaged them and told them to look into it else you could have time wasters doing that all the time!

Its all cloak and dagger, as somebody said previous i wonder if Campbells media team (or probably himself!) put this in the media, his is the only bidder named and i wonder if he is trying to add credence by saying there are two others.

As for Lai, i dont think he has done much wrong money wise, he said business as normal and it has been, we got relegated and he cut costs which is quite normal, he is an investor not a cash point. I think had we stayed in the premier league it would of been very similar to the JP years, nothing team just trying to stave off relegation, however for him financially he took one hell of a hit within a year!

I think they probably did have some sort of rough plan when we went down by getting a director of football in, appointing younger managers, better football, etc but i think with us being promoted, covid affect, etc it seems maybe they have just decided to sell now rather than wait, hence the plan going out the window and Big Sam coming in.

I think where he messed up was his appointments, on the face of it John Williams and somebody Goodman i think it was (not Don!) should of been decent, football men, had similar roles but it went badly wrong, we had that Terraneo bloke as well, and i am not sure what this Ken bloke does.

Mark Jenkins seems to be crucial to Albion, when he left under JP we went downhill, Lai got him back, we got promoted, he left again and this season we seem a shambles, i know Jenkins is disliked by some but at least we seemed pretty efficient and knew where we stood, i havent a clue with Ken.

As for new owners, i dont see a west bromwich ambramovic coming in, we are more likely to get a Lai -  an investor. In many ways for the new investor we may be better being taken over in the championship as they can buy for less and have the scope to make money if we got back to the premier league, there is always a big IF that will happen though!

Problem with being taken over as a premier league club, the profits you make are i assume not huge, for clubs like Albion who are pretty much maxed out you just small but regular profit which is okay when your in the premier league, the issue is your one bad season from that all changing as Lai can vouch for.

I would be sceptical about Burnleys takeover, borrowing large amounts of money to acquire clubs of that size (and ours) is a worry, its different if your one of the big boys, at least Lai brought us outright even with the £4m loan which is minimal in football terms. Also Derby are supposedly being taken over, its mean to of gone through start of December, it still hasnt  and staff (including players) were paid late for December and still now have only received 50% and also been told Januarys wages wont arrive on time.

There seems doubt about the Arab buyer, he still owes money for fees owed when attempting to takeover Newcastle, ideally you want like Leicesters owners, wealthy but who buy into not just the club, but the whole area, community and genuinely seem to care about the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 11:42:40 AM
Chris Lepowski said JP did sell us for well over £200m and that the premier league are still investigating our ownership, i wondered who raised the concern to the premier league about ownership? Surely its not just a fan messaged them and told them to look into it else you could have time wasters doing that all the time!



I believe it is the shareholder group 79, there was discussion about this a few weeks ago. From memory there was a suggestion that ownership had been 'transferred' to a Chinese businesswoman. Her name escapes me at the moment but I think it has proven to be unfounded.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 14, 2021, 12:01:23 PM
I believe it is the shareholder group 79, there was discussion about this a few weeks ago. From memory there was a suggestion that ownership had been 'transferred' to a Chinese businesswoman. Her name escapes me at the moment but I think it has proven to be unfounded.


Is Lepkowski still banging that drum? I thought he had swiftly dropped it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 14, 2021, 12:10:39 PM
Chris Lepowski said JP did sell us for well over £200m and that the premier league are still investigating our ownership, i wondered who raised the concern to the premier league about ownership? Surely its not just a fan messaged them and told them to look into it else you could have time wasters doing that all the time!



As others have said, I believe it's S4A that's raised the issue.

What I find strange is CL's comments about JP selling us for well over £200 million & then insisting that Lai is not a (pound sterling) billionaire.

As far as the ownership of the business in concerned Lai's name is still shown as the "person with significant control" on the companies house website.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on January 14, 2021, 12:21:12 PM
Chris Lepowski said JP did sell us for well over £200m and that the premier league are still investigating our ownership, i wondered who raised the concern to the premier league about ownership? Surely its not just a fan messaged them and told them to look into it else you could have time wasters doing that all the time!

Its all cloak and dagger, as somebody said previous i wonder if Campbells media team (or probably himself!) put this in the media, his is the only bidder named and i wonder if he is trying to add credence by saying there are two others.

As for Lai, i dont think he has done much wrong money wise, he said business as normal and it has been, we got relegated and he cut costs which is quite normal, he is an investor not a cash point. I think had we stayed in the premier league it would of been very similar to the JP years, nothing team just trying to stave off relegation, however for him financially he took one hell of a hit within a year!

I think they probably did have some sort of rough plan when we went down by getting a director of football in, appointing younger managers, better football, etc but i think with us being promoted, covid affect, etc it seems maybe they have just decided to sell now rather than wait, hence the plan going out the window and Big Sam coming in.

I think where he messed up was his appointments, on the face of it John Williams and somebody Goodman i think it was (not Don!) should of been decent, football men, had similar roles but it went badly wrong, we had that Terraneo bloke as well, and i am not sure what this Ken bloke does.

Mark Jenkins seems to be crucial to Albion, when he left under JP we went downhill, Lai got him back, we got promoted, he left again and this season we seem a shambles, i know Jenkins is disliked by some but at least we seemed pretty efficient and knew where we stood, i havent a clue with Ken.

As for new owners, i dont see a west bromwich ambramovic coming in, we are more likely to get a Lai -  an investor. In many ways for the new investor we may be better being taken over in the championship as they can buy for less and have the scope to make money if we got back to the premier league, there is always a big IF that will happen though!

Problem with being taken over as a premier league club, the profits you make are i assume not huge, for clubs like Albion who are pretty much maxed out you just small but regular profit which is okay when your in the premier league, the issue is your one bad season from that all changing as Lai can vouch for.

I would be sceptical about Burnleys takeover, borrowing large amounts of money to acquire clubs of that size (and ours) is a worry, its different if your one of the big boys, at least Lai brought us outright even with the £4m loan which is minimal in football terms. Also Derby are supposedly being taken over, its mean to of gone through start of December, it still hasnt  and staff (including players) were paid late for December and still now have only received 50% and also been told Januarys wages wont arrive on time.

There seems doubt about the Arab buyer, he still owes money for fees owed when attempting to takeover Newcastle, ideally you want like Leicesters owners, wealthy but who buy into not just the club, but the whole area, community and genuinely seem to care about the club.

This is where my serious issue with Lai is I’m not expecting him to come in & plough money into the club but as an investor I do expect him to make smart decisions, put smart people in key positions & strategies in place. Southampton are a huge case in point Chinese ownership who can’t / won’t invest in the club however they are miles ahead of us in terms of recruitment & long term strategy.

Every hire Lai has made he’s got horribly wrong, I have no problem with him maintaining that the club should be self sufficient that’s almost a relief that it is & we’re not hugely risking our financial future as the likes of Leeds, Everton, Villa etc. are if the owner one day decides to turn off the money tap. What I do expect is Lai to be smart, he doesn’t have to know a lot about football but as an investor he should be surrounding himself with smart people who do know how to run a club & can put strategies & systems in place to give the club some direction which is exactly what the likes of Southampton have done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 14, 2021, 12:24:51 PM
Yeah it's not the fact he hasn't pumped millions in, it's the fact he came in and switched off and plunged us into relative disaster.

This is a club that needs someone hands on. We all get things wrong from time to time but he's resided over failure after failure all because he's the embodiment of hands off.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 12:26:11 PM
This is where my serious issue with Lai is I’m not expecting him to come in & plough money into the club but as an investor I do expect him to make smart decisions, put smart people in key positions & strategies in place. Southampton are a huge case in point Chinese ownership who can’t / won’t invest in the club however they are miles ahead of us in terms of recruitment & long term strategy.

Every hire Lai has made he’s got horribly wrong, I have no problem with him maintaining that the club should be self sufficient that’s almost a relief that it is & we’re not hugely risking our financial future as the likes of Leeds, Everton, Villa etc. are if the owner one day decides to turn off the money tap. What I do expect is Lai to be smart, he doesn’t have to know a lot about football but as an investor he should be surrounding himself with smart people who do know how to run a club & can put strategies & systems in place to give the club some direction which is exactly what the likes of Southampton have done.

That's way too sensible for this club 24, but I like your thinking......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 14, 2021, 12:27:13 PM
.......There are clubs out there who I would love us to emulate. The obvious example is Leicester City, where the King Power group have been excellent (not so much for their fortuitous league title, but more what has followed since).........

It would appear that even Leicester's owners need a little helping hand every now and again.......

https://mobile.twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/1349017760802754560

........ Macquarie are getting about a bit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on January 14, 2021, 12:50:13 PM
Football ownership seems like a murky world. Whatever we think of Lai the idea of a new owner seems more scary than exciting these days. Man City, Chelsea, Wolves etc have benefitted but there are so many horror stories (Blackburn, Charlton, Blues, Leeds etc). There is no talk of an investor who will plough millions into Albion the same way Man City did.
I would love someone to take us forward and bring a sense of ambition to Albion. The idea that we exist get 17th in the prem is a sad state of affairs. The trouble is reading the reports it actually could be a lot worse.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 14, 2021, 01:08:58 PM
Football ownership seems like a murky world. Whatever we think of Lai the idea of a new owner seems more scary than exciting these days. Man City, Chelsea, Wolves etc have benefitted but there are so many horror stories (Blackburn, Charlton, Blues, Leeds etc). There is no talk of an investor who will plough millions into Albion the same way Man City did.
I would love someone to take us forward and bring a sense of ambition to Albion. The idea that we exist get 17th in the prem is a sad state of affairs. The trouble is reading the reports it actually could be a lot worse.

I would think if you were an investor and had £200m to spunk then there are better deals than the Albion. I'd take a punt on Bristol City, nice ground, huge catchment area (not landlocked with clubs like other areas) or Norwich/Ipswich.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on January 14, 2021, 01:35:26 PM
Its probably too much to hope that a new owner would have any genuine affinity to West Brom or the region, but at least it must be someone who is willing to think long-term. The very last thing we need is some fly-by-night operator who thinks he can get in and out making a big profit on the way. Nearly all property developers fall into that category.
We need someone who can give the club stability investing for the long term.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on January 14, 2021, 01:36:57 PM
Come back Jeremy all is forgiven. At least he had a plan and stuck to it whether you liked the plan is a personal decision.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 14, 2021, 01:38:29 PM
As others have said, I believe it's S4A that's raised the issue.

What I find strange is CL's comments about JP selling us for well over £200 million & then insisting that Lai is not a (pound sterling) billionaire.

As far as the ownership of the business in concerned Lai's name is still shown as the "person with significant control" on the companies house website.

I don’t believe it was “well over £200m”.  Somewhere in the £175-200m range.

Lai was openly part of a consortium, not the sole owner, but he was the confirmed front person of the consortium so is named as the controller.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 14, 2021, 01:39:41 PM
I would think if you were an investor and had £200m to spunk then there are better deals than the Albion. I'd take a punt on Bristol City, nice ground, huge catchment area (not landlocked with clubs like other areas) or Norwich/Ipswich.

Bristol City ironically have a billionaire owner and a superb one too, Steve Lansdown.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on January 14, 2021, 01:40:56 PM
Come back Jeremy all is forgiven. At least he had a plan and stuck to it whether you liked the plan is a personal decision.

Words I did not think I would hear ever. How bad are things now
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 14, 2021, 01:44:55 PM
I think we are more likely to end up as a Hull City than a Portsmouth, Sunderland, Blackburn etc. A club with a disinterested owner who has put the club up for sale, refuses to put any money into the club, losing supporters season upon season.

I hope Lai can sell the club. I don't care if the owner doesn't pump endless millions into the club (not sure I'd want them to). What I would like though is an owner who is interested, has a long term (5+ years) plan for the club and employs the people to realise that plan, and a manager that can get us playing entertaining football.

I know Allardyce isn't going to have us playing entertaining football and that's not what we need in our current situation, staying in the Pl is the most important thing for the club and if Allardyce can achieve that then hopefully that will lead to Lai selling the club and then just maybe we'll get the kind of owner we all want.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 14, 2021, 01:45:25 PM
Come back Jeremy all is forgiven. At least he had a plan and stuck to it whether you liked the plan is a personal decision.

I’d love to see him lead a consortium to buy from Lai.  He could put in a fraction of what he sold for.  He could even fund that out of the circa £80m CGT he saved on the sale when he moved to Jersey. 

If he was able to pull together the right sort of consortium, one which could not only buy from Lai but inject some extra funding (remember that we are constrained by FFP regulations regardless of how wealthy the next owner is), then we’d be in a pretty decent place.   

Love him or hate him, he knows how to run a football club.  If he’d sold to a bad owner, rather than merely to a disinterested one who cannot provide financial help, then one can only speculate where we might be right now.  It could be a lot worse. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 14, 2021, 01:52:36 PM
It seems to me that we dont need a new owner as such, we need a new visionary.  It doesn't really matter in what senior position, be it owner, ceo or technical director.

Obviously an owner would be better, because they'd have a stronger tie to the club than an employee, but it may be that you've got a much big pool in the labour market. Albeit it will still be limited as its such a unique role, I also expect any advertised position would get a lot applications from charlatans.

We got lucky with Ashworth, he was a lower league academy man but clearly more capable than anyone probably knew when he joined. He learnt and grew in to the role. I dont know what he is paid, but I would seriously go an offer him a £5m 10 year deal and give him operational control over managemnt, recruitment and the academy. 

If I were a prospective buyer / head of a consortium, he is the one man I would  want him in my group. I'd give him a percentage of the club to get him on board.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 14, 2021, 01:57:40 PM
Come back Jeremy all is forgiven. At least he had a plan and stuck to it whether you liked the plan is a personal decision.

I feel the same.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 01:58:17 PM
Come back Jeremy all is forgiven. At least he had a plan and stuck to it whether you liked the plan is a personal decision.

Oh he had a plan alright, and he chucked us right under the bus.

I never want that man near our club again ......regardless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 14, 2021, 01:59:06 PM
I feel the same.

Is must be a generation thing as, so do I  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 14, 2021, 02:05:59 PM
Is must be a generation thing as, so do I  :)
Me too
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 02:09:42 PM
Is must be a generation thing as, so do I  :)

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask........

Peace is the reason why we are where we are now, and some want more apparently. I am seriously lost for words.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 14, 2021, 02:14:31 PM
I don’t believe it was “well over £200m”.  Somewhere in the £175-200m range.

Lai was openly part of a consortium, not the sole owner, but he was the confirmed front person of the consortium so is named as the controller.

I don't believe it was "well over £200 million" either.

I understand Palm contributed £30 million, around 18% of the total to the consortium. (From the Palm website).

On that basis, that makes the bid valued at around £166 million.

Haven't got a clue what contribution Lai made, or where he got the cash from, although CL thinks he used a loan.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 02:19:43 PM
Why don't we ask S4A if they want Jezza back?

I think I might know the answer, and I concur.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on January 14, 2021, 02:31:07 PM
Peace is the reason why we are where we are now, and some want more apparently. I am seriously lost for words.
Indeed. My view is that he was always in it for himself, yet some prefer to see him through rose-tinted specs as some kind of a benefactor to the club when, as I understand it, he actually never put any of his own money into it. As soon as the time suoted him, he rode off into the sunset and left us completely and utterly in the ****.

Some will no doubt say that there's nothing wrong with already rich people making even more lashings of money - I think I'll stick with my own moral compass.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 02:40:21 PM
Is this the bloke some of you want back?

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/01/14/view-jeremy-peace-continues...

Shakes head in disbelief
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on January 14, 2021, 02:40:59 PM
Why don't we ask S4A if they want Jezza back?

I think I might know the answer, and I concur.

Id take JP over the guy we have now no problem.

S4A dont have an exclusive say on who should and shouldnt be owning the club.

They could, by buying the club outright
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 14, 2021, 02:47:20 PM
I don't believe it was "well over £200 million" either.

I understand Palm contributed £30 million, around 18% of the total to the consortium. (From the Palm website).

On that basis, that makes the bid valued at around £166 million.

Haven't got a clue what contribution Lai made, or where he got the cash from, although CL thinks he used a loan.


This is closer to what I had been lead to believe.

I always thought reports suggest peace received around £175m for his 88%, which values the entire club at roughly £200m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on January 14, 2021, 02:47:53 PM
Id take JP over the guy we have now no problem.

S4A dont have an exclusive say on who should and shouldnt be owning the club.

They could, by buying the club outright
That's a very low bar you've set there. There must be better by far than these two.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 14, 2021, 02:51:12 PM
Indeed. My view is that he was always in it for himself, yet some prefer to see him through rose-tinted specs as some kind of a benefactor to the club when, as I understand it, he actually never put any of his own money into it. As soon as the time suoted him, he rode off into the sunset and left us completely and utterly in the ****

Some will no doubt say that there's nothing wrong with already rich people making even more lashings of money - I think I'll stick with my own moral compass.

I dont see why him being in it for himself is necessarily a bad thing when his interests and the Albion doing well were mutually aligned.

Nobody else was banging on the door to buy us as far as I know when he bought it the way he did.






Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on January 14, 2021, 03:01:18 PM
That's a very low bar you've set there. There must be better by far than these two.

Of course there is...

But the debate above has been about JP and Lai

Out of the 2 there is no question who was the better chairman
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on January 14, 2021, 03:01:29 PM
I may be looking at this naively but not sure what Peace did wrong selling to Lai?

As a fan i think Peace made a number of mistakes from not backing managers to some iffy managerial appointments but not sure the sale to Lai was one of them.

At the time we were an established premier league club, we had a manager in charge in Pulis who although played shocking football at that time was as safe a bet as there was to guarentee premier league football.

He sold to a consortium who as far as i am aware brought us outright for between £170m - £200m, they didnt borrow against the club or take loans out to complete the deal, they paid the money no problem and at a time when the chinese, a huge superpower in the world were trying to get into football.

At that point of sale Peace was rumoured to be an advisor i think, but Lai was the decision maker.

He came in and said business as normal, they didnt say we would go crazy, but what they did do inline with the fact we were an established premier league club was broke our transfer record when signing Burke and also for the first time in our history starting paying players over £100k a week (Krychowiak, Sturridge) and many of us said it was the best squad in our lifetime, me included.

He appointed a supposed steady eddie in John Williams to run things, he then replaced Pulis with a Pardew who again had relative success at clubs similar to us like West Ham, Newcastle and Palace, it wasnt some random unknown mate of mate from China, of course there was probably better options than Pardew but he was an experienced mananger.

However it turned out, it didnt work out with Pardew, the team under performed and John Williams was a disaster, but that is all after Peace left, hindsight is a wonderful thing but all those things listed above seemed pretty safe sensible decisions.

Since then we got relegated, cut our cloth and got promoted again, as i have said i would prefer a long term plan but Lai wants out but not sure three years later Peace can be blamed for that.

Peace is a businessman, if somebody offered me the chance to put little money into a business and make £170m profit, i would say yes! As fans we didnt really suffer for him to be a success, i know Paul Thompson did great things and Peace carried it on, under him we were promoted to the top flight for the first time in my 30 years of going, we became an established topflight club and built a top academy, new training ground and have very nice facilities.

Things could of been different, on the pitch maybe we should of had more ambitious managers who targeted cups, some wanted the Halford extended, i have no doubt there are probably some staff who dont speak highly of him, all things that happen under multi million pound businesses.

There are probably people on here who know more than me but as an everyday fan, i am not sure Peace did much wrong selling to Lai, the appointments after that were where it went wrong but they were all pretty experienced established appointments that just didnt work out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 03:05:41 PM
I dont see why him being in it for himself is necessarily a bad thing when his interests and the Albion doing well were mutually aligned.

Nobody else was banging on the door to buy us as far as I know when he bought it the way he did.

He would not have let them JC, Peace knew exactly what he was doing when he was acquiring the shares. Had the club been put up for sale at the time [about 2008] then there may have been interest, we will never know.

I am not sure his interests and the Albion's interests were ever mutually aligned. He was always in it for himself and really did not care what happened to the club.

If you think about it, had Peace not have sold out then I think that we would probably be in exactly the same position as we are now under Lai. We would still be running on a shoestring and not 'looking forward' with a clear strategy for progression as a club. Instead of wanting Lai out we would be posting about how tight Peace is and how he is holding us back [and wanting him to sell the club ironically].

However, as another poster said, my morale compass will not allow me to agree or condone with anything Peace did when he sold the club to Lai. You will never see a more blatant lack of integrity.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 03:12:34 PM
Here are some words from Chairman Peace;


Outgoing Chairman Jeremy Peace commented: “I believe this deal will enable Albion to build on the strong, sustainable foundations that have been the cornerstone of the Club’s progress.

“I have been Chairman for 14 years and I am obviously pleased that in that time we have become an established top flight club. Now, having spent time with Guochuan, I believe he is the right man to take Albion forward.

“His genuine passion for the game, proven track record with Palm and the China opportunity he brings to Albion will hopefully play a key role in helping the Club develop still further in this increasingly global age.



That went well didnt it.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 14, 2021, 03:12:52 PM
I’ve only been a fan for about 20-25 years and the best we have been in that period (2010-2013) is due to the structure put in place by Peace so I struggle to feel the same hate towards him the way others do.

Also it’s all well and good saying what everyone should do with their businesses/money, I’d love to see what these same people would do if it was their business/money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 14, 2021, 03:15:01 PM
Here are some words from Chairman Peace;


Outgoing Chairman Jeremy Peace commented: “I believe this deal will enable Albion to build on the strong, sustainable foundations that have been the cornerstone of the Club’s progress.

“I have been Chairman for 14 years and I am obviously pleased that in that time we have become an established top flight club. Now, having spent time with Guochuan, I believe he is the right man to take Albion forward.

“His genuine passion for the game, proven track record with Palm and the China opportunity he brings to Albion will hopefully play a key role in helping the Club develop still further in this increasingly global age.



That went well didnt it.......

He was wrong but we only know in hindsight, unless you are saying he sold it to Lai on purpose to do us over which I can’t see.

Or are you saying he should have maybe taken £50m less money and sold to someone else? Like I said I my post before it’s easy to tell everyone else what to do with their money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 14, 2021, 03:17:35 PM
I dont see why him being in it for himself is necessarily a bad thing when his interests and the Albion doing well were mutually aligned.

Nobody else was banging on the door to buy us as far as I know when he bought it the way he did.


TBF sure it was reported that other parties who wanted to give Peace less and invest more into club existed but he turned those down for the party that would pay him more directly.

Make no mistake Peace selling to Lai was purely for his own gain, not an interest in the clubs future. He found the mug he never thought he would find and gobbled him up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 14, 2021, 03:18:31 PM
It seems to me that we dont need a new owner as such, we need a new visionary.  It doesn't really matter in what senior position, be it owner, ceo or technical director.

Obviously an owner would be better, because they'd have a stronger tie to the club than an employee, but it may be that you've got a much big pool in the labour market. Albeit it will still be limited as its such a unique role, I also expect any advertised position would get a lot applications from charlatans.

We got lucky with Ashworth, he was a lower league academy man but clearly more capable than anyone probably knew when he joined. He learnt and grew in to the role. I dont know what he is paid, but I would seriously go an offer him a £5m 10 year deal and give him operational control over managemnt, recruitment and the academy. 

If I were a prospective buyer / head of a consortium, he is the one man I would  want him in my group. I'd give him a percentage of the club to get him on board.

Agree 100%. & that's the way I'd go, I'd much prefer us to play the long game.

The problem is, we don't know what pressure Lai is under in China, I'd hazard a guess that he's under some pressure to get rid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 03:31:32 PM
He was wrong but we only know in hindsight, unless you are saying he sold it to Lai on purpose to do us over which I can’t see.

Or are you saying he should have maybe taken £50m less money and sold to someone else? Like I said I my post before it’s easy to tell everyone else what to do with their money.

No I am not saying that Lee, what he did do was sell it to the first person who came along with the cash... regardless.

Of course he is going to say meally mouthed rubbish about Lai and he 'believed he was the right man to take the club forward'. Whereas in fact he probably didn't give a damn what happened to us.

As a fan what we all want is for the Albion to be competitive, to be in the top half of the Premier League and giving the top 6 a good game. We would like a really good cup run or two, and we want to see some decent football in all of that. Personally I would like us to be where Everton [for example] are. That to me is progress.

We have none of that, and no realistic likelihood of it for the forseeable future, and that would have been the case under Peace or Lai.

My beef is the way Peace shoehorned his way into the position, the forced introduction of share consolidation scheme, and the loan he took out of £3.7m, and how he managed to 'pass it on'. It just stinks to me and I cannot believe some want him back.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 14, 2021, 03:37:18 PM
It's interesting that some contributors to this thread have described Lai as a "mug".

In my experience, someone who has grown & developed a business into a multi-million dollar enterprise is far from being a mug.

At the time, there were huge opportunities for Lai's business interests to develop, both internally & externally, WBAFC was one of them.

So, let's assume Lai isn't a mug, is it then conceivable that he would have handed over £150 million to £200 million for WBAFC without some sort of caveat?

Is it possible that Peace does still have an interest in WBAFC, because it's failure means he doesn't get paid in full.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 14, 2021, 03:42:33 PM
Clearly he's VERY good at what he's good at. He's also clearly WAY WAY WAY out of his depth in the football world.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 03:44:22 PM
Clearly he's VERY good at what he's good at. He's also clearly WAY WAY WAY out of his depth in the football world.

He has got a lovely garden though.......:)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 14, 2021, 03:45:57 PM
He has got a lovely garden though.......:)

I've heard the same!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on January 14, 2021, 03:48:35 PM
Although he was said to be a fan i dont suppose Peace would care as much about what happened to the club as much as we do, but i still dont think him selling to Lai was so bad, its what happened since then thats gone wrong but all the initial signs and even the first year were positive from Lai, it was relegation that season that changed things.

Lai probably thought after 8 years established in the premier league with the income and exposure that brings, we were a pretty safe investment, a year later he had lost half his investment, whether he or his advisors knew the consequences financially of relegation from the premier league, we will never know.

As others have said, i would like a long term plan but as fans we have to accept that will also take time and have setbacks and keep sacking managers isnt the way every time there is a bad spell, whoever comes in if / when that plan starts needs support and patience from the club and fans.

Ideally you would get a Bristol City type owner, local wealthy person who wants the best for the club and the area, failing that a Leicester City type foreign ownership, again who just seems to get the club, i am not sure how many of those are kicking about West Bromwich.

I dont think many billionaires will be in for us, you then go to Wolves type owner who at the moment is working for them but something just doesnt seem right about that setup and not sure how long it will last but time will tell. Burnley are trying an alternate route but there approach seems to have the new owners take on a debt to sign younger players and sell which i am pretty sure is what most clubs do anyway, so not sure whats so revolutionary about that but again time will tell.

After that you start getting into consortiums and investors, sometimes that works, others it doesnt, but more than likely thats who will buy us and i think it will be very much business as usual and same sort of running of the club as Peace and Lai.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 03:51:47 PM
And just as a matter of interest here is a piece about the loan to Jeremy

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7846305/West-Brom-fans-demand-club-open-investigation-3-7million-loan-Jeremy-Peaces-company.html


As I read it we [allegedly] lent his company the money to buy shares and increase his holding from 65 % to 88%. He then sold the shares for 8 times more than he paid for them to Lai, and he never paid us back..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on January 14, 2021, 03:52:10 PM
It's interesting that some contributors to this thread have described Lai as a "mug".

In my experience, someone who has grown & developed a business into a multi-million dollar enterprise is far from being a mug.

At the time, there were huge opportunities for Lai's business interests to develop, both internally & externally, WBAFC was one of them.

So, let's assume Lai isn't a mug, is it then conceivable that he would have handed over £150 million to £200 million for WBAFC without some sort of caveat?

Is it possible that Peace does still have an interest in WBAFC, because it's failure means he doesn't get paid in full.

I think he probably grew enamoured with 2 ideas, both of which would have courted favour back home at the time:

1/ having his eco-towns linked with an established Premier League name like West Bromwich Albion (and others, he did try to forge more link-ups)

2/ using the expertise in our academy set-up to coach the next generation of Chinese youngsters. They would live at his eco-towns, they would sign contracts with him so that he could profit from them making the grade and moving on, and he would gain political capitol from improving Chinese footballers.

That allowed him to be taken for a mug by Peace; we were never worth what he paid for us, and his grand ideas haven't panned out (the Chinese government has become less focused on developing football) due to our falling stock.

He wants out, but he doesn't want to lose face - he wants what he paid for us, but nobody else values us that highly (and Lai can't put in the money or time required to actually make us worth that). I can see immediate results being a factor in the initial deal, but not four years down the line.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 14, 2021, 03:56:49 PM
But currently it is only going one way. He might want to save face by trying to get our 'value' back up, but the longer he is on board this sinking ship the lower his stock falls.

I can't really see a way out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 14, 2021, 03:58:05 PM
I believe there was a guaranteed price paid around 160m which was too much to begin with and then other clauses leading upto £200m based on PL status/success etc.

In Lais first full season we bombed out the PL due to awful higher up decisions so it's fair to say there is not much more heading Peaces direction than the initial sum paid which he still made £130m + from.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 04:19:35 PM
It's interesting that some contributors to this thread have described Lai as a "mug".

In my experience, someone who has grown & developed a business into a multi-million dollar enterprise is far from being a mug.

At the time, there were huge opportunities for Lai's business interests to develop, both internally & externally, WBAFC was one of them.

So, let's assume Lai isn't a mug, is it then conceivable that he would have handed over £150 million to £200 million for WBAFC without some sort of caveat?

Is it possible that Peace does still have an interest in WBAFC, because it's failure means he doesn't get paid in full.

I think you make a fair point John, the only thing I question about Lai is the loan.

Peace sells the club to Lai and says 'oh by the way a couple of years ago I borrowed £3.7m from the club to buy more shares [allegedy]. I am selling them to you at 8x what I paid for them. Do you fancy paying that off for me too?'

OK :)

That does not sound smart to me.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 14, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
I may be looking at this naively but not sure what Peace did wrong selling to Lai?

As a fan i think Peace made a number of mistakes from not backing managers to some iffy managerial appointments but not sure the sale to Lai was one of them.

At the time we were an established premier league club, we had a manager in charge in Pulis who although played shocking football at that time was as safe a bet as there was to guarentee premier league football.

He sold to a consortium who as far as i am aware brought us outright for between £170m - £200m, they didnt borrow against the club or take loans out to complete the deal, they paid the money no problem and at a time when the chinese, a huge superpower in the world were trying to get into football.

At that point of sale Peace was rumoured to be an advisor i think, but Lai was the decision maker.

He came in and said business as normal, they didnt say we would go crazy, but what they did do inline with the fact we were an established premier league club was broke our transfer record when signing Burke and also for the first time in our history starting paying players over £100k a week (Krychowiak, Sturridge) and many of us said it was the best squad in our lifetime, me included.

He appointed a supposed steady eddie in John Williams to run things, he then replaced Pulis with a Pardew who again had relative success at clubs similar to us like West Ham, Newcastle and Palace, it wasnt some random unknown mate of mate from China, of course there was probably better options than Pardew but he was an experienced mananger.

However it turned out, it didnt work out with Pardew, the team under performed and John Williams was a disaster, but that is all after Peace left, hindsight is a wonderful thing but all those things listed above seemed pretty safe sensible decisions.

Since then we got relegated, cut our cloth and got promoted again, as i have said i would prefer a long term plan but Lai wants out but not sure three years later Peace can be blamed for that.

Peace is a businessman, if somebody offered me the chance to put little money into a business and make £170m profit, i would say yes! As fans we didnt really suffer for him to be a success, i know Paul Thompson did great things and Peace carried it on, under him we were promoted to the top flight for the first time in my 30 years of going, we became an established topflight club and built a top academy, new training ground and have very nice facilities.

Things could of been different, on the pitch maybe we should of had more ambitious managers who targeted cups, some wanted the Halford extended, i have no doubt there are probably some staff who dont speak highly of him, all things that happen under multi million pound businesses.

There are probably people on here who know more than me but as an everyday fan, i am not sure Peace did much wrong selling to Lai, the appointments after that were where it went wrong but they were all pretty experienced established appointments that just didnt work out.


This is absolutely bang on.

Lai said he would come in and it would be business as usual. Lai came in and tried to have us continue with business as usual. It hasnt worked, but how do you blame Peace for that.

"Peace sold to the first person who offered the money"

Why wouldnt he sell to the first credible person? The fact that it was credible probably put them well ahead of 20 others who made tentative enquiries.

Whether he was the first (do we know?) or not, if the first person who offers the money also sets out what he is going to do, which coincidentally is business as usual and try to build over time, then why wouldn't he sell?

Peace was in it for himself, I agree. However that doesn't mean he stitched us up either. Those who wanted Peace to do a deal at half the price with commitment to spend £100m on the team are living in a fantasy land.
Even if someone had promised it, I'm not sure how legally binding that sort of agreement would be. 


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on January 14, 2021, 04:48:33 PM
No I am not saying that Lee, what he did do was sell it to the first person who came along with the cash... regardless.

Of course he is going to say meally mouthed rubbish about Lai and he 'believed he was the right man to take the club forward'. Whereas in fact he probably didn't give a damn what happened to us.

As a fan what we all want is for the Albion to be competitive, to be in the top half of the Premier League and giving the top 6 a good game. We would like a really good cup run or two, and we want to see some decent football in all of that. Personally I would like us to be where Everton [for example] are. That to me is progress.

We have none of that, and no realistic likelihood of it for the forseeable future, and that would have been the case under Peace or Lai.

My beef is the way Peace shoehorned his way into the position, the forced introduction of share consolidation scheme, and the loan he took out of £3.7m, and how he managed to 'pass it on'. It just stinks to me and I cannot believe some want him back.   

Where is the proof that it was sold to the first person who came along?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 14, 2021, 04:48:56 PM
Peace did nothing wrong legally of course I don't think anyones remotely suggested that. It's also not true that Peace was Albion through and through and acted in the club's best interests.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 14, 2021, 04:55:28 PM
Peace did nothing wrong legally of course I don't think anyones remotely suggested that. It's also not true that Peace was Albion through and through and acted in the club's best interests.

Out of curiousity, what we he have done if he was acting in the clubs best interests?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 14, 2021, 05:00:37 PM
And just as a matter of interest here is a piece about the loan to Jeremy

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7846305/West-Brom-fans-demand-club-open-investigation-3-7million-loan-Jeremy-Peaces-company.html


As I read it we [allegedly] lent his company the money to buy shares and increase his holding from 65 % to 88%. He then sold the shares for 8 times more than he paid for them to Lai, and he never paid us back..


Just trawled through the accounts on companies house website, back to accounts for year to June 2016, before the sale.

In the accounts to June 2016, (season 2015/16) there are entries where the club has borrowed from & owed money to the parent company, both more than £3.7 million.

I believe it's likely that Peace used some of the value of his personal shares as a surety against loans to increase his shareholding, but that £3.7 million doesn't appear specifically until the accounts for season 2016/17.

I believe it's more likely be a loan to pay the team of accountants, lawyers & translators from both sides who brokered the deal.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 05:00:47 PM
Where is the proof that it was sold to the first person who came along?

Where is the proof that he didn't?

From memory Tom there were a couple of interested parties, and it is thought that Fosun was one of them. There is an assumption here that any other interested parties may or may not have made offers that were deemed too low or complex in their structuring. Whereas Lai agreed to a figure between £150m to £200m [according to who you believe], and that offer was accepted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 14, 2021, 05:08:26 PM
Where is the proof that he didn't?

From memory Tom there were a couple of interested parties, and it is thought that Fosun was one of them. There is an assumption here that any other interested parties may or may not have made offers that were deemed too low or complex in their structuring. Whereas Lai agreed to a figure between £150m to £200m [according to who you believe], and that offer was accepted.

And who wouldn’t? Would you sell your house to someone who is offering 50k less than another bloke?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 14, 2021, 05:11:09 PM
Out of curiousity, what we he have done if he was acting in the clubs best interests?

For me sold to someone who had an interest and willingness to be hands on. Peace didn't slowly create a nice juicy profit by being hands off. He was all over everything and rightly so. It was his investment. He didn't have to pump large sums in so he had to squeeze value from every penny to make us work. Lai walked in and switched off. Then decided to pay men to look after his investment for him because he didn't have an idea. Sadly he picked a bunch of less than talented individuals and has done since imo.

He also could have sold to another group who offered similar values but say 120m to Peace and 40m Ito the club rather than 160m to Peace as an example. None of us have the concrete figures obviously.. it was widely reported such a group existed and offered the above but he declined as he would be 40m worse off. He'd only be looking at making 90-100m from us.

People are frustrated that he said he had the club's best interests at heart when it was clear he couldn't care less as long as he maximised every single last penny he could from WBA. Nothing wrong with that just don't lie about it.

Everyone else will have different views of course. These are just mine.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on January 14, 2021, 05:13:32 PM
And who wouldn’t? Would you sell your house to someone who is offering 50k less than another bloke?
A football club, and everything that comes with it (e.g. fans), isn't really comparable to a house is it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2021, 05:13:56 PM
Peace did nothing wrong legally of course I don't think anyones remotely suggested that. It's also not true that Peace was Albion through and through and acted in the club's best interests.

Well put Gazberg.

I know I have been vocal about this issue today so I am going to shut up. Peace did nothing wrong selling to Lai, and had the Chinese Government not put sanctions on the movement of money we may [just may] be in a different position. My issue is the way Peace engineered himself into the position of selling us for a massive personal profit, but at the end of the day we are a business and it was a business deal.

I just struggle with the concept that some actually want him back, thats all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 14, 2021, 05:14:14 PM
A football club, and everything that comes with it (e.g. fans), isn't really comparable to a house is it?

For us it’s not, for businessmen it is.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 14, 2021, 05:23:58 PM
Where is the proof that he didn't?

From memory Tom there were a couple of interested parties, and it is thought that Fosun was one of them. There is an assumption here that any other interested parties may or may not have made offers that were deemed too low or complex in their structuring. Whereas Lai agreed to a figure between £150m to £200m [according to who you believe], and that offer was accepted.

Forsun get mentioned, but they went on to buy a club for a (rumored £45m) so there is nothing to suggest they were in the market at £150m plus.

In fact, how many clubs have been sold in the last four and a half years between £120m and £200m?   



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 14, 2021, 05:41:04 PM
One thing I've never been able to understand. JP felt he'd taken the club as far as he could and recognised the need for extra revenue and a fresh approach. The football landscape and it's dynamics were changing, he recognised and acknowledged this. So how was a takeover in a changing landscape ever going to work with more of the same that had gone before?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on January 14, 2021, 05:50:40 PM
Overall i like the job Peace did but i wouldnt want him back.

Peace built a successful club upto almost its full potential under his leadership guidelines, i am not sure what his motivation would be to get involved now, He always had an end game to sell Albion and as any businessman would do, he got the best price.

The first summer Lai was in he did try and push us on with the record transfer fee, highest wages, etc but it backfired with bad appointments in hindsight.

The only way i imagine Peace would get involved would be if we hit rock bottom and he could almost start the project again but i just doubt he would have the enthusiasm, commitment or willingness to do it all again 20 years later when he doesnt need too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 14, 2021, 06:20:27 PM
I may be looking at this naively but not sure what Peace did wrong selling to Lai?

As a fan i think Peace made a number of mistakes from not backing managers to some iffy managerial appointments but not sure the sale to Lai was one of them.

At the time we were an established premier league club, we had a manager in charge in Pulis who although played shocking football at that time was as safe a bet as there was to guarentee premier league football.

He sold to a consortium who as far as i am aware brought us outright for between £170m - £200m, they didnt borrow against the club or take loans out to complete the deal, they paid the money no problem and at a time when the chinese, a huge superpower in the world were trying to get into football.

At that point of sale Peace was rumoured to be an advisor i think, but Lai was the decision maker.

He came in and said business as normal, they didnt say we would go crazy, but what they did do inline with the fact we were an established premier league club was broke our transfer record when signing Burke and also for the first time in our history starting paying players over £100k a week (Krychowiak, Sturridge) and many of us said it was the best squad in our lifetime, me included.

He appointed a supposed steady eddie in John Williams to run things, he then replaced Pulis with a Pardew who again had relative success at clubs similar to us like West Ham, Newcastle and Palace, it wasnt some random unknown mate of mate from China, of course there was probably better options than Pardew but he was an experienced mananger.

However it turned out, it didnt work out with Pardew, the team under performed and John Williams was a disaster, but that is all after Peace left, hindsight is a wonderful thing but all those things listed above seemed pretty safe sensible decisions.

Since then we got relegated, cut our cloth and got promoted again, as i have said i would prefer a long term plan but Lai wants out but not sure three years later Peace can be blamed for that.

Peace is a businessman, if somebody offered me the chance to put little money into a business and make £170m profit, i would say yes! As fans we didnt really suffer for him to be a success, i know Paul Thompson did great things and Peace carried it on, under him we were promoted to the top flight for the first time in my 30 years of going, we became an established topflight club and built a top academy, new training ground and have very nice facilities.

Things could of been different, on the pitch maybe we should of had more ambitious managers who targeted cups, some wanted the Halford extended, i have no doubt there are probably some staff who dont speak highly of him, all things that happen under multi million pound businesses.

There are probably people on here who know more than me but as an everyday fan, i am not sure Peace did much wrong selling to Lai, the appointments after that were where it went wrong but they were all pretty experienced established appointments that just didnt work out.

This is an excellent post that sums up my thoughts perfectly.

We can moan that we do not spend enough but the one season where we did open up the cheque book, we wasted the money and still to this day have failed to recover from it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on January 14, 2021, 06:25:44 PM

Just trawled through the accounts on companies house website, back to accounts for year to June 2016, before the sale.

In the accounts to June 2016, (season 2015/16) there are entries where the club has borrowed from & owed money to the parent company, both more than £3.7 million.

I believe it's likely that Peace used some of the value of his personal shares as a surety against loans to increase his shareholding, but that £3.7 million doesn't appear specifically until the accounts for season 2016/17.

I believe it's more likely be a loan to pay the team of accountants, lawyers & translators from both sides who brokered the deal.

You need to look further back to the accounts for the period when JP made his tender offer for shares in Summer 2014.

The loan of £3.7m was discovered in the filed accounts of WBA Holdings (Peace's company) for the year to 30 June 2015. Holdings is shown as owing £3,716,000 to "group undertakings" (i.e. Club).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 14, 2021, 06:31:04 PM
This is an excellent post that sums up my thoughts perfectly.

We can moan that we do not spend enough but the one season where we did open up the cheque book, we wasted the money and still to this day have failed to recover from it.

Poor spending enabled by lack of focus/interest in club. Poor appointments in senior staff. Absolutely beyond insane decision to reward Pulis failures with a umper contract he couldn't believe his luck to be offered and then pretty much let Pulis burn 40m.or whatever with little care or attention paid to his dealings.

If you look at Pulis past records he's always disastrous when given money to spend. 13m for Burke gooood lordyyy. If that single transfer wasn't indicative how little the club mattered to anyone then I don't know what was.

That single summer put the nail in our club for the short term and now he's reaping what he sowed. Unfortunately for us we all dragged down with it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 14, 2021, 06:47:38 PM
I think there are few things that are self evident. In general owners aren't fans. Of the 20 owners in the Premier League maybe 2 or 3 would be genuine fans and probably no more than a handful in the Championship. How many Midlands residents have the wherewithal to buy a £100m assest that returns nothing most years and plough further tens of millions into it to subsidise it's running? Hardly any and I don't think our global reach of 20 to 30 years ago had too many budding billionaires in it that now fancy burning through their fortunes on a vanity project. 

To criticise an owner for not being "Albion through and through" is like owning a dog and complaining it barks.  Peace was never going to vet future owners on the basis they were good for the club and just taking less money does not of itself make them better.

Most "successful" owners  other than the very obvious "big 6" players have two things in common. Firstly they bought clubs in the lower leagues and got them promoted into the Premier League. Some have backed this up with a smart player trading strategies and some continue to subsidise their clubs in the Premier League but the key is buy a target with potential upside.

However this is the same strategy that the likes of Morris and Chansiri have also bought into. If it goes well you are genius and if it goes badly then your are an idiot and a poorer idiot for the experience. Some of the "sucess" is just flat out gambling that came good and how sustainable it is a matter for debate.

Every change of ownership is a gamble Baggies goes with a coin flip in his post I'd price it a 2/1 against and the downside is truly horrible with absolute chancers leading consortiums to buy clubs.

I would truly hate to look back on the Lai years as the calm before the storm.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 14, 2021, 07:10:21 PM
You need to look further back to the accounts for the period when JP made his tender offer for shares in Summer 2014.

The loan of £3.7m was discovered in the filed accounts of WBA Holdings (Peace's company) for the year to 30 June 2015. Holdings is shown as owing £3,716,000 to "group undertakings" (i.e. Club).

Perhaps I'm not looking in the correct place.

I'm looking at the creditors & debtors in the notes section on the companies house website.

I'm aware that there is more detailed data available for a subscription.

Data on the companies house website specifically mentions two debts both circa £3.7 million, both payable on demand, but one attracts interest at the rate of BoE interest rate plus 5%.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 14, 2021, 07:21:29 PM
One thing I've never been able to understand. JP felt he'd taken the club as far as he could and recognised the need for extra revenue and a fresh approach. The football landscape and it's dynamics were changing, he recognised and acknowledged this. So how was a takeover in a changing landscape ever going to work with more of the same that had gone before?

JP wasn't being honest with you, all he cared about was maximising his return. Hence he moved to Jersey to avoid paying capital gains tax on the fortune he made from the deal - remember that next time your reading about no money for public services and school meals.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on January 14, 2021, 07:26:10 PM
Poor spending enabled by lack of focus/interest in club. Poor appointments in senior staff. Absolutely beyond insane decision to reward Pulis failures with a umper contract he couldn't believe his luck to be offered and then pretty much let Pulis burn 40m.or whatever with little care or attention paid to his dealings.

If you look at Pulis past records he's always disastrous when given money to spend. 13m for Burke gooood lordyyy. If that single transfer wasn't indicative how little the club mattered to anyone then I don't know what was.

That single summer put the nail in our club for the short term and now he's reaping what he sowed. Unfortunately for us we all dragged down with it.

I’m with you Gaz.

The Coates family gave TP a blank chequebook at Stoke City and he squandered an awful lot of money there too.

Sad isn’t it that certain sections of the club are even more frightened of us spending money because the one time (ONE TIME!!) we actually did it things didn’t work out.

That’s life. And football - whether we choose to accept it or not - is driven purely by money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 14, 2021, 07:37:17 PM
There's no real reason to fear spending £40m again (not that we can) It wasn't the amount spent that meant we failed it was the melting pot of the manager, his transfer record, his seniors and an owner that thought the club would be run just fine.

If you don't care for your toys don't expect them to last.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tatnam baggie on January 14, 2021, 07:40:30 PM
The possibility of a takeover in this current climate is very worrying.
Even though I can’t wait to see the back of Lai. Anybody got any info
On the consortium trying to take over at the Albion?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tatnam baggie on January 14, 2021, 07:57:04 PM
Hear are some comments written from a journalist in Falkirk, when this consortium
We’re looking at Falkirk and previously Sunderland.

Consortium details?

Campbell is heading a New York-based consortium with wealthy investors.

The group have links to Asia with the money behind the takeover believed to come from the Far East.

Make of this at your will.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on January 14, 2021, 08:08:32 PM
For me sold to someone who had an interest and willingness to be hands on. Peace didn't slowly create a nice juicy profit by being hands off. He was all over everything and rightly so. It was his investment. He didn't have to pump large sums in so he had to squeeze value from every penny to make us work. Lai walked in and switched off. Then decided to pay men to look after his investment for him because he didn't have an idea. Sadly he picked a bunch of less than talented individuals and has done since imo.

He also could have sold to another group who offered similar values but say 120m to Peace and 40m Ito the club rather than 160m to Peace as an example. None of us have the concrete figures obviously.. it was widely reported such a group existed and offered the above but he declined as he would be 40m worse off. He'd only be looking at making 90-100m from us.

People are frustrated that he said he had the club's best interests at heart when it was clear he couldn't care less as long as he maximised every single last penny he could from WBA. Nothing wrong with that just don't lie about it.

Everyone else will have different views of course. These are just mine.


This just about some uo where I am with it. JP  didn't do us any arm along the way, quite the contrary, the club looked professional in everything that it was doing and the academy was a great move.
He made himself a very tidy profit and sold the club to the person offering the most money I guess.
The only thing that sticks in my throat is the idea he was doing all he could for the club's future, he got us into the position to sell and did it for personal gain.
It is a shame as I'm led to believe that Lai , because of the Chinese restrictions on the movement of monies, cannot finance anything for the club, so we're led to believe.
The time is coming to an end for the Chinese in English football, lets hope we can sell to someone a bit more savvy this time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 14, 2021, 08:28:16 PM
I don't even think anyone would have begrudged him his moment if he was honest about it. I would have respected him more. The nonsense about Lais deal being best for the club was a JP hoodwink one too many for most.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Tank on January 14, 2021, 08:56:46 PM
Peace paid very little for his shares.(possibly nothing after the way he got the club to loan him the funds). 
He took the best part of £1 million a year in dividends or salary.
Then sells for as much as double what the club was worth.   
A true fan would have put a huge proportion of the "profit" back into the club by way of a ground development fund or similar.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 14, 2021, 09:11:17 PM
Peace paid very little for his shares.(possibly nothing after the way he got the club to loan him the funds). 
He took the best part of £1 million a year in dividends or salary.
Then sells for as much as double what the club was worth.   
A true fan would have put a huge proportion of the "profit" back into the club by way of a ground development fund or similar.

What is a true fan? I consider myself a true fan but i’d happily never step foot in the ground again if it meant walking away with £170m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 14, 2021, 11:04:12 PM
What is a true fan? I consider myself a true fan but i’d happily never step foot in the ground again if it meant walking away with £170m.

You are defending the indefensible. JP was greedy and self interested. Admitting you'd also sell the club down the river to maximise your personal return doesn't make it any better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 14, 2021, 11:27:19 PM
You are defending the indefensible. JP was greedy and self interested. Admitting you'd also sell the club down the river to maximise your personal return doesn't make it any better.

I am sorry I don't understand. On the one hand fans in general seem to demand owners invest tens of millions in players and the club infrastructure beyond what the club generates but then whenever they take a profit it is a terrible thing. You cannot call the money they spend on the club an investment if they can't make a profit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 14, 2021, 11:53:10 PM
I believe there was a guaranteed price paid around 160m which was too much to begin with and then other clauses leading upto £200m based on PL status/success etc.

In Lais first full season we bombed out the PL due to awful higher up decisions so it's fair to say there is not much more heading Peaces direction than the initial sum paid which he still made £130m + from.

No - I understand there were no conditional elements to the deal
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 15, 2021, 12:06:55 AM
No - I understand there were no conditional elements to the deal

I definitely read in one of the main papers around the time there were bonus clauses attached but if you have something more solid i wouldnt argue that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 15, 2021, 07:45:26 AM
This is what I keep saying, it’s easy telling everyone else what they should do with their money;

Spend all you have but take nothing back....... Oh by the way ‘don’t you dare change the ticket price from £25 to £30 else that’s me done’

 ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 15, 2021, 07:53:03 AM
Hang on...

So now JP shouldn’t have maximised his return and is responsible for the lack of public spending and no free school meals...

As with the Allardyce thread I’m out of this one too.

The arguments just get more and more ridiculous

Good morning Tom

He didn't say that though did he? He made a relevant point that JP moved to Jersey to avoid paying tax on his ill gotten gains. In other words, legal tax avoidance.

At least we gave Sam Allardyce a rest yesterday :)

I think that what is worth bearing in mind is this, at the time we were sold, both Wolverhampton Wanderers and the vile also changed hands. Fosun acquired the wolves in 2016 for £45m, and Lerner sold the vile to the good doctor for £70m. He subsequently discovered the joys of running a football club and in turn procured two billionaires to invest. Now I would have questions about the T&C's of both deals, but in reality Lai could have bought both clubs with his £200m and still have an enormous amount of change.
Whilst we occasionally smile at any misfortune bestowed upon our noisy neighbours, both clubs appear to be in a much better place than us at the moment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 15, 2021, 10:11:18 AM
Good morning Tom

He didn't say that though did he? He made a relevant point that JP moved to Jersey to avoid paying tax on his ill gotten gains. In other words, legal tax avoidance.

At least we gave Sam Allardyce a rest yesterday :)

I think that what is worth bearing in mind is this, at the time we were sold, both Wolverhampton Wanderers and the vile also changed hands. Fosun acquired the wolves in 2016 for £45m, and Lerner sold the vile to the good doctor for £70m. He subsequently discovered the joys of running a football club and in turn procured two billionaires to invest. Now I would have questions about the T&C's of both deals, but in reality Lai could have bought both clubs with his £200m and still have an enormous amount of change.
Whilst we occasionally smile at any misfortune bestowed upon our noisy neighbours, both clubs appear to be in a much better place than us at the moment.


Lai and associates bought the Peace stake for £188m this valued the club at something in the region of £213m.

Lai bought a club that was cash rich solvent and in the Premier League with near to zero upside potential.

By definition Football clubs are nearly always sold to billionaires because nobody else can afford to buy them so finding a billionaire or large corporation to "invest" is not a good thing because it is pretty much the only type of person or institution that can.

Villa were sold with a mountain of debt quite literally days away from administration. Have the new ownership spent more than £110m on cleaning up the mess they inherited ? Probably.

Fosun only spent £45m on buying Wolves. However but they spent another £38m on acquiring a 15% stake in the Mendes Agency with the option to increase that stake to 30%. The stake in Start SGPS is more valuable to Fosun than Wolves even today. The relationship between the two is host and parasite at the moment it is symbiotic but be in no doubt that Fosun will sell off and move to a new host when the moment is right.   

Both however were bought in the Championship with lots of upside potential. Just getting promoted doubles the club's value overnight. A route it is open to profit. However failure to get promoted turns them into Derby or Sheffield Wednesday. Although Wolves could still be used as a player trading platform in the Championship. 

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 15, 2021, 10:16:58 AM
I am sorry I don't understand. On the one hand fans in general seem to demand owners invest tens of millions in players and the club infrastructure beyond what the club generates but then whenever they take a profit it is a terrible thing. You cannot call the money they spend on the club an investment if they can't make a profit.

JP didn’t invest anything into the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 15, 2021, 10:39:45 AM
JP didn’t invest anything into the club.

He bought the club from the people who owned the stock for a price they wanted to sell in the same way any other assest is bought and sold. Putting in additional funds in is not a requirement to generate a return.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 15, 2021, 11:05:39 AM
Lai and associates bought the Peace stake for £188m this valued the club at something in the region of £213m.

Lai bought a club that was cash rich solvent and in the Premier League with near to zero upside potential.

By definition Football clubs are nearly always sold to billionaires because nobody else can afford to buy them so finding a billionaire or large corporation to "invest" is not a good thing because it is pretty much the only type of person or institution that can.

Villa were sold with a mountain of debt quite literally days away from administration. Have the new ownership spent more than £110m on cleaning up the mess they inherited ? Probably.

Fosun only spent £45m on buying Wolves. However but they spent another £38m on acquiring a 15% stake in the Mendes Agency with the option to increase that stake to 30%. The stake in Start SGPS is more valuable to Fosun than Wolves even today. The relationship between the two is host and parasite at the moment it is symbiotic but be in no doubt that Fosun will sell off and move to a new host when the moment is right.   

Both however were bought in the Championship with lots of upside potential. Just getting promoted doubles the club's value overnight. A route it is open to profit. However failure to get promoted turns them into Derby or Sheffield Wednesday. Although Wolves could still be used as a player trading platform in the Championship.

Valid points Stan - thank you.

My point is that other clubs were available and changing hands at lower prices, albeit with debt attached to them, but also with history and potential.

For a smart businessman Lai seems to have bought a debt free club at an absolutely premium price, a price set by Peace. I realise that Lai did not have to take it, but he did and now we appear to be entering the wilderness years as far as club progression is concerned. If we do go down then I really fear for us, so the Allardyce 'gamble' has to work for all concerned.

To be fair to Peace, if he was approached by Fosun as widely rumoured and he turned them away, then it looks as though he helped the club dodge a bullet, although I suspect that it was more to do with profit margins as opposed to the future development of our club.

My issue with Peace is the way he went about his business, as a result of this we now have an owner who appears to be out of his depth and wanting all of his investment back. Peace put him there and rode off into the sunset. Ironically I don't think that we are any better or worse of with Lai; it would be exactly the same with Peace here. We are well and truly stuck.

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned true fans, we are all true fans but we cannot afford to buy the club sadly [well I cant anyway]. A true fan for me was someone like Sir Jack Hayward, a life long fan who put his money into the club he supported and wanted nothing back. Peace said he was a life long fan too didn't he?   

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 15, 2021, 11:20:34 AM
If we're going to criticise Peace for anything, it should be his recommendation of Williams as opposed to the sale itself.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 15, 2021, 11:22:39 AM
If we're going to criticise Peace for anything, it should be his recommendation of Williams as opposed to the sale itself.

Agreed - that was an absolute disaster, Pulis played him like a pro
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on January 15, 2021, 11:25:39 AM
Valid points Stan - thank you.

My point is that other clubs were available and changing hands at lower prices, albeit with debt attached to them, but also with history and potential.

For a smart businessman Lai seems to have bought a debt free club at an absolutely premium price, a price set by Peace. I realise that Lai did not have to take it, but he did and now we appear to be entering the wilderness years as far as club progression is concerned. If we do go down then I really fear for us, so the Allardyce 'gamble' has to work for all concerned.

To be fair to Peace, if he was approached by Fosun as widely rumoured and he turned them away, then it looks as though he helped the club dodge a bullet, although I suspect that it was more to do with profit margins as opposed to the future development of our club.

My issue with Peace is the way he went about his business, as a result of this we now have an owner who appears to be out of his depth and wanting all of his investment back. Peace put him there and rode off into the sunset. Ironically I don't think that we are any better or worse of with Lai; it would be exactly the same with Peace here. We are well and truly stuck.

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned true fans, we are all true fans but we cannot afford to buy the club sadly [well I cant anyway]. A true fan for me was someone like Sir Jack Hayward, a life long fan who put his money into the club he supported and wanted nothing back. Peace said he was a life long fan too didn't he?   

 

He may have been, if someone asks my mom who she supports she would say West Brom and has all her life but if I didn’t say ‘we have wolves tomorrow’ she wouldn’t know.

On the other hand it might just have been said to keep everyone happy, It’s like Robbie Keane, every team he has ever signed for he’s been a boyhood fan of.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 15, 2021, 11:29:32 AM
He may have been, if someone asks my mom who she supports she would say West Brom and has all her life but if I didn’t say ‘we have wolves tomorrow’ she wouldn’t know.

On the other hand it might just have been said to keep everyone happy, It’s like Robbie Keane, every team he has ever signed for he’s been a boyhood fan of.

He said a few things to keep people happy Lee.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on January 15, 2021, 11:41:00 AM
He bought the club from the people who owned the stock for a price they wanted to sell in the same way any other assest is bought and sold. Putting in additional funds in is not a requirement to generate a return.
Wasn't it the case that Peace found a way to obtain shares along the lines of one of the club's various holding companies itself taking out loans during share offers, rather than using his own money?

As for "a price they wanted to sell", I was one of the small shareholders who had my shares compulsorily purchased for a fixed price, which I believe became possible once he'd acquired a certain percentage (90%?) of all the shares. Judging by what he's been posting of late, the same is probably true for skyclad99. As I recall, small shareholders either had to commit to buying more shares (something I couldn't afford) or we had to sell for the same price as we'd paid for them, but I could be wrong on the latter point. Someone else here who was similarly affected may well remember what happened more clearly than me.

This article (http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2014/07/09/matt-scott-west-brom-s-history-of-attritional-shareholder-war-shows-why-one-man-is-at-peace/) may be of interest to anyone who doesn't know of the ins and outs of Peace's acquisition of the club and what he did subsequently. It explains how Peace got control of 60% of the shares for an outlay of £3m, so let's just say that he ended up doing quite nicely out of his eventual sale to Lai!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 15, 2021, 11:46:49 AM
Wasn't it the case that Peace found a way to obtain shares along the lines of one of the club's various holding companies itself taking out loans during share offers, rather than using his own money?

As for "a price they wanted to sell", I was one of the small shareholders who had my shares compulsorily purchased for a fixed price, which I believe became possible once he'd acquired a certain percentage (90%?) of all the shares. Judging by what he's been posting of late, the same is probably true for skyclad99. As I recall, small shareholders either had to commit to buying more shares (something I couldn't afford) or we had to sell for the same price as we'd paid for them, but I could be wrong on the latter point. Someone else here who was similarly affected may well remember what happened more clearly than me.

This article (http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2014/07/09/matt-scott-west-brom-s-history-of-attritional-shareholder-war-shows-why-one-man-is-at-peace/) may be of interest to anyone who doesn't know of the ins and outs of Peace's acquisition of the club and what he did subsequently. It explains how Peace got control of 60% of the shares for an outlay of £3m!

No offence but it's hardly had any long term affect on you if you can't remember the details bud.

Peace was shady AF imo, from his initial coup to the various loans and share buyouts.  That said he left us in a far better place than he found us and his sale of the club was perfectly above board from both a moral and ethical standpoint. China had an ambitious foreign football policy, which they unfortunately u-turned on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 15, 2021, 12:33:43 PM
The Whelan/Hayward/Walker purchases and investment from fans who had already made fortune in other businesses is the oft quoted model. However there a couple of things to note while the Heads of the Family were keen and spent money beyond any reasonable expectation of a return, their families were less inclined and all sold up. Secondly the clubs they supported struggled without the golden tit even when they literally gave them away to their new owners.

Peace never was a fan in the Hayward sense he might have had an affinity to the club but this was always business and one which having dedicated a big chunk of his time to was going to reward him very well. The mistake Lai made was buying what Peace was selling for the price that he was selling it at. That is to some extent his and our shared misfortune.

The various share issues and consolidations that enabled Peace to get his 88% especially the final one pushed the boundaries. However at no point did any other party offer more money. If only a few of the many the multi millionaires in our fanbase had  stepped forward to save the day.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Tank on January 15, 2021, 01:05:11 PM
I am sorry I don't understand. On the one hand fans in general seem to demand owners invest tens of millions in players and the club infrastructure beyond what the club generates but then whenever they take a profit it is a terrible thing. You cannot call the money they spend on the club an investment if they can't make a profit.
Are you talking about Peace here, or in general ?  Because I cannot see where Peace  invested tens of millions.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on January 15, 2021, 01:19:58 PM
No offence but it's hardly had any long term affect on you if you can't remember the details bud.
Comment on Lai/Peace all you like, but I don't need your analysis of the affect things do/don't have on me personally thanks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 15, 2021, 02:00:13 PM
Are you talking about Peace here, or in general ?  Because I cannot see where Peace  invested tens of millions.

In general. Peace did not but football in general has hoovered up vast quantities of capital with little or no return. Peace made an absolute mint but the following losses some of which are conservative estimates.

Simon Jordan (Palace £60m)
Randy Lerner (Villa £250m)
Edwin Davies (Bolton £175m)

underline the risks involved.

There are whole bunch of clubs with more owner debt on their books than their assets are worth.

It is the nature of high risk activity the winners are few and far between but the winners are in many instances massively over rewarded. 

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 15, 2021, 02:13:59 PM
Wasn't it the case that Peace found a way to obtain shares along the lines of one of the club's various holding companies itself taking out loans during share offers, rather than using his own money?

As for "a price they wanted to sell", I was one of the small shareholders who had my shares compulsorily purchased for a fixed price, which I believe became possible once he'd acquired a certain percentage (90%?) of all the shares. Judging by what he's been posting of late, the same is probably true for skyclad99. As I recall, small shareholders either had to commit to buying more shares (something I couldn't afford) or we had to sell for the same price as we'd paid for them, but I could be wrong on the latter point. Someone else here who was similarly affected may well remember what happened more clearly than me.

This article (http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2014/07/09/matt-scott-west-brom-s-history-of-attritional-shareholder-war-shows-why-one-man-is-at-peace/) may be of interest to anyone who doesn't know of the ins and outs of Peace's acquisition of the club and what he did subsequently. It explains how Peace got control of 60% of the shares for an outlay of £3m, so let's just say that he ended up doing quite nicely out of his eventual sale to Lai!

Thanks for the link WorcsWBA - a very good read and the line of 'once Peace was in he brought war with him' is so true.

I did not have shares but I was close to someone who was, so I got it chapter and verse. I have had to look it up online to confirm, but the bottom line was that Peace introduced a share consolidation scheme, where for every 10 shares you held, you now had 1 share. If you only had a couple of shares you had two options, a) buy the required number of shares from someone, or b) sell them to Jeremy. Like yourself, it priced many out of the market and they were forced to sell at the price they paid, whether they liked it or not.

It was an aggressive takeover and was fought at the time without success. There was nothing illegal about it but I cannot see how it was for the benefit of the club, and morally I think it is very much in the grey area.

I do wonder where we would be had Paul Thompson fought him off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 15, 2021, 02:22:48 PM
Thanks for the link WorcsWBA - a very good read and the line of 'once Peace was in he brought war with him' is so true.

I did not have shares but I was close to someone who was, so I got it chapter and verse. I have had to look it up online to confirm, but the bottom line was that Peace introduced a share consolidation scheme, where for every 10 shares you held, you now had 1 share. If you only had a couple of shares you had two options, a) buy the required number of shares from someone, or b) sell the to Jeremy. Like yourself, it priced many out of the market and they were forced to sell at the price they paid, whether they liked it or not.

It was an aggressive takeover and was fought at the time without success. There was nothing illegal about it but I cannot see how it was for the benefit of the club, and morally I think it is very much in the grey area.

I do wonder where we would be had Paul Thompson fought him off.

He walked out on the Albion because of conflict he had with Gary Megson over player recruitment, not because of any conflict with JRP
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 15, 2021, 02:29:04 PM
He walked out on the Albion because of conflict he had with Gary Megson over player recruitment, not because of any conflict with JRP

That is referenced in the very last line of the article Colin, and you are absolutely correct. I was more referring to Thompson not deciding to sell up and standing up to Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 15, 2021, 02:29:28 PM
Comment on Lai/Peace all you like, but I don't need your analysis of the affect things do/don't have on me personally thanks.

No worries Worcs and as I said no offence intended, just seemed to be a long denunciation only to end it with 'I can't really remember'.

You are right of course, I have no idea of your feelings. So please accept my apologies.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 15, 2021, 02:33:24 PM
Joke going around at the time was we were the only club where owner was fired by manager.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on January 15, 2021, 02:46:57 PM
I understand people saying "he was a businessman, I would have done the same", that is fine and it is your view.

My view however is that while he did nothing illegal, he wasn't far off being vulture capitalist who claimed to be a fan, claimed later he would only sell to the right people and who took advantage of the club to make millions.

He didn't gamble buying the club, not in the same way others did, he barely paid anything for it. He swept in riding the Thompson wave following the latter's hard work and went to work hoovering up the rest of the clubs shares at below market value. The people he bullied out of their shares were ordinary fans who had put money in when we were at our lowest and he cared little to make sure these true fans were rewarded for their original sacrifice.

His annual earnings were at one stage one of the highest for a chairman in all of England and despite making millions in his time at the club, he was always looking for his next profit.

By all means, people can say "i would have done the same" but I won't be patting you on the back for it, I want to be rich but I recognise there are morals in life and that I don't feel comfortable treading all over people to get there.

I have no respect for him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 15, 2021, 02:48:39 PM
That is referenced in the very last line of the article Colin, and you are absolutely correct. I was more referring to Thompson not deciding to sell up and standing up to Peace.

If I recall correctly Clive, Thompson never shied away from a fight, he had a big boardroom disagreement with Tony Hale the then Chairman and won that decisively to become Chairman.

I was present at the Gala baths in West Bromwich the evening of a Extra Ordinary AGM, when the choice was put to the shareholders, he, Thompson was very popular with the majority of larger and smaller shareholders and it was a no contest in the end.

It does make you wonder though. We will never know and it is what it is unfortunately,
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on January 15, 2021, 02:57:08 PM
I did not have shares but I was close to someone who was, so I got it chapter and verse. I have had to look it up online to confirm, but the bottom line was that Peace introduced a share consolidation scheme, where for every 10 shares you held, you now had 1 share. If you only had a couple of shares you had two options, a) buy the required number of shares from someone, or b) sell the to Jeremy. Like yourself, it priced many out of the market and they were forced to sell at the price they paid, whether they liked it or not.
That's it - many thanks for the summary. As you might imagine, that epsiode didn't endear him to me in the slightest, but my low opinion of him isn't solely based on that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on January 15, 2021, 02:59:15 PM
No worries Worcs and as I said no offence intended, just seemed to be a long denunciation only to end it with 'I can't really remember'.

You are right of course, I have no idea of your feelings. So please accept my apologies.
Fair enough. It's not something that I've wanted to remember the ins and outs of really....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 15, 2021, 03:17:36 PM
I understand people saying "he was a businessman, I would have done the same", that is fine and it is your view.

My view however is that while he did nothing illegal, he wasn't far off being vulture capitalist who claimed to be a fan, claimed later he would only sell to the right people and who took advantage of the club to make millions.

He didn't gamble buying the club, not in the same way others did, he barely paid anything for it. He swept in riding the Thompson wave following the latter's hard work and went to work hoovering up the rest of the clubs shares at below market value. The people he bullied out of their shares were ordinary fans who had put money in when we were at our lowest and he cared little to make sure these true fans were rewarded for their original sacrifice.

His annual earnings were at one stage one of the highest for a chairman in all of England and despite making millions in his time at the club, he was always looking for his next profit.

By all means, people can say "i would have done the same" but I won't be patting you on the back for it, I want to be rich but I recognise there are morals in life and that I don't feel comfortable treading all over people to get there.

I have no respect for him.

Exactly my feeling Baggies, and that is why I cannot understand the 'Come back Jeremy, all is forgiven' movement.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 15, 2021, 03:41:40 PM
Professor Simon Chadwick Tweeted

Closing chapters of story about China's push forward-pull back approach to acquiring overseas football clubs are now being written. Chinese government policy has changed, domestic fiscal stringency has become norm since 2017, Beijing decision-makers....

Source: https://www.ft.com/content/ef43ce66-af92-4076-a568-6a5502665cb5
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 15, 2021, 04:06:12 PM
I understand people saying "he was a businessman, I would have done the same", that is fine and it is your view.

My view however is that while he did nothing illegal, he wasn't far off being vulture capitalist who claimed to be a fan, claimed later he would only sell to the right people and who took advantage of the club to make millions.

He didn't gamble buying the club, not in the same way others did, he barely paid anything for it. He swept in riding the Thompson wave following the latter's hard work and went to work hoovering up the rest of the clubs shares at below market value. The people he bullied out of their shares were ordinary fans who had put money in when we were at our lowest and he cared little to make sure these true fans were rewarded for their original sacrifice.

His annual earnings were at one stage one of the highest for a chairman in all of England and despite making millions in his time at the club, he was always looking for his next profit.

By all means, people can say "i would have done the same" but I won't be patting you on the back for it, I want to be rich but I recognise there are morals in life and that I don't feel comfortable treading all over people to get there.

I have no respect for him.

I agree with most of what you say, he is certainly no saint and the morality of some of what he did is questionable. However it is possible for him to be everything you say, and for us to have made progress as a club.  It might not have been great how he went about getting the shares at times, but we did sort of need fans to give them up to enable us to move forwards.

I believe the law allows majority share holders to do things like that is so very small minority shareholders cannot unreasonably prevent action. Obviously at times this is abused. It also wasn't that shares could only be sold for what had been paid for them (unless only recently bought).

At the time a I think at the time a share was worth about £70-80 so you needed £700 more to get your 10 (which became 1). Again I can understand why people feel aggrieved, but in 2008 if you are holding a £70 single share or two in a football club you probably didn't buy it for an investment, and only really held it for sentimental reasons. 

Many are a little bitter that what was in essence sold for £2,000, 10 years later was taken for £80. Again I understand it but at some point you I think you need to let it go.

I personally wouldn't have done exactly the same. I genuinely believe I would have have left the club with something. I'm not sure what, but i think with £175m I would have left £50m in some way as a legacy. A new stand or two or perhaps training ground /academy improvements. The Johnny cash training ground or Academy and an open arms welcome every match when i wasn't in the Bahamas would have been worth it. 


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on January 15, 2021, 07:57:29 PM
i would have enjoyed seeing Johnny Cash condom machines in the urinals !  I live in hope !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 15, 2021, 08:16:41 PM
i would have enjoyed seeing Johnny Cash condom machines in the urinals !  I live in hope !

With a "Ring of Fire" logo - perfect
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Brummie Road on January 16, 2021, 08:38:24 AM
If I recall correctly Clive, Thompson never shied away from a fight, he had a big boardroom disagreement with Tony Hale the then Chairman and won that decisively to become Chairman.

I was present at the Gala baths in West Bromwich the evening of a Extra Ordinary AGM, when the choice was put to the shareholders, he, Thompson was very popular with the majority of larger and smaller shareholders and it was a no contest in the end.

It does make you wonder though. We will never know and it is what it is unfortunately,

The 1990's AGMs in West Bromwich were always entertaining, very lively and got quite heated at times and I have to say were very enjoyable in a strange kind of way.

Recall in the late 1990's, buying the Evening Mail on the way home from work and it seemed almost every evening the Sports headline was about the latest crisis from the Albion Boardroom and used to joke with the newspaper seller about what, in his use of phrase, "the crazy sods" had done next.

Also had to smile at one AGM at a time of constant changes in the Boardroom when one Director at the time (who was only there a matter of months) came out with the usual Corporate talk of the future being positive (blah blah blah) at a time when we were struggling at the foot of the Championship and the club was going through its latest period of turmoil, and a shareholder next to me standing up with the Yearly Accounts Report (confirming dire financial figures) in his hand and asking "where in here does it say the futures good" which raised a few laughs in the audience and uncomfortable shifting in their seats of the Board members present (and a wry smile from Brian Little who also attended that meeting as Team Manager).

For all the downsides (and there were a lot!) I do kind of look back at those times through admittedly Rose Tinted Glasses as a time when many club owners were both local and accessable and for all their faults, were for the most part in attendance and did have a handle on what the club meant to the supporters and the community.

Speculation of takeovers inevitably have elements of uncertainty, and as we are all painfully aware from so many examples, can go horribly wrong, but I think we all feel that the present club hierarchy feel distant and remote in virtually every respect.

It's the feeling of detachment, admittedly enhanced by the fact that none of us have been able to attend any matches for months, and the impression that this is unlikely to ever change, that makes me hope that somehow our Owner will find a buyer prepared to strike a deal.

How that would eventually pan out is anyone's guess but I think the vast majority would acknowledge that a parting of the ways is needed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 16, 2021, 08:41:26 AM
I knew someone had explained it before hence I asked the question again and to put the asset stripping nonsense to bed.
But it’s one of those phrases (asset stripping)that the people hear and find very easy to throw in to a thread....that they no little about.
This forum can be very amusing at times....my personal favourites being the “why don’t we just spend the 20m”?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 16, 2021, 08:45:58 AM
But it’s one of those phrases (asset stripping)that the people hear and find very easy to throw in to a thread....that they no little about.
This forum can be very amusing at times....my personal favourites being the “why don’t we just spend the 20m”?

As always, it’s a lack of education.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 16, 2021, 09:20:23 AM
As always, it’s a lack of education.

I often read it's a lack of ambishun wot holds us back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 16, 2021, 09:21:40 AM
With a "Ring of Fire" logo - perfect

Rainbow packaging  :o  ;) ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on January 16, 2021, 11:11:13 AM
The stand out sentence for me from the From Buzaglo to Balis book, is the quote from John Wile looking back to the time Peace became Chairman in June 2002: "But Jeremy could see the treasures that lay ahead."
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 18, 2021, 07:35:41 AM
But it’s one of those phrases (asset stripping)that the people hear and find very easy to throw in to a thread....that they no little about.
This forum can be very amusing at times....my personal favourites being the “why don’t we just spend the 20m”?

You must have missed the best one from not long ago.

It was mooted by someone on here that we should invest a part of our profits in building houses and becoming landlords, and worse still in bitcoin.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 18, 2021, 08:52:49 AM
In the Athletic article today Campbell himself is quoted as saying he's not in for us rather close to deal for 100m for a club from mainland Europe.

He said he would only buy a club from league 1 or 2.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 18, 2021, 08:54:34 AM
In the Athletic article today Campbell himself is quoted as saying he's not in for us rather close to deal for 100m for a club from mainland Europe.

He said he would only but a club from league 1 or 2.

Thank god, the bloke makes the Oystons look like great owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 18, 2021, 08:59:19 AM
Thank god, the bloke makes the Oystons look like great owners.

Yes made for terrible reading tbf. A relief.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on January 18, 2021, 04:28:46 PM
no further news on the potential takeover, I thought they were picking the prime bidder by now. Perhaps this was just paper talk after all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 18, 2021, 04:55:13 PM
no further news on the potential takeover, I thought they were picking the prime bidder by now. Perhaps this was just paper talk after all.

Athletic says again interest at a fair price, no interest at the price Lai wants.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on January 21, 2021, 09:02:09 AM
The latest Prof Simon Chadwick tweet is bad news for Lai. Tony Xia (ex Aston Villa owner) now has an arrest warrant from the Chinese authorities - the latest Chinese football investor to be looked at. Chadwick thinks it's a pattern, doesn't bode well for Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 21, 2021, 09:09:36 AM
In Lai's defence (beyond his purchase price at our takeover) the Chinese authorities could hardly accuse him of reckless spending. Xia on the other hand.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 21, 2021, 09:12:26 AM
Yes that Is bloke was clearly beyond help. Bonkers he was. Made me laugh more than once. Was going to.destroy them. Sadly he sold up.

Lais done nothing of the sort or anything at all really. Doubt he will be caught up in it all
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on January 26, 2021, 03:40:10 AM
Although I feel sorry for him being stitched up by JP, I can’t help disliking him for being so clueless. If stories are true and we are having trouble backing the new manager with finances it all seems just pointless. Is he really that clueless that he had 200 million sitting around, invested it and has no idea what to do now. Where is the plan :-\
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 26, 2021, 08:32:02 AM
Although I feel sorry for him being stitched up by JP, I can’t help disliking him for being so clueless. If stories are true and we are having trouble backing the new manager with finances it all seems just pointless. Is he really that clueless that he had 200 million sitting around, invested it and has no idea what to do now. Where is the plan :-\

Getting promoted was the plan, I think they expected it to take 2 years.

I'm not sure he was stitched up by Peace. He knew the price, surely he did some research on the club before buying, he paid the price asked, he could have walked away.

In my opinion he saw us as an opportunity to  promote his Palm Eco Towns to a worldwide audience (rather than trying to grow us as a brand in China/Far East).

2 relegations from the money league in 4 seasons under his ownership isn't going to do his reputation any good.

Sometimes in life things don't work out as planned and you have to cut your losses and get what you can, time to sell us for the best offer Mr Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 26, 2021, 08:33:25 AM
Although I feel sorry for him being stitched up by JP, I can’t help disliking him for being so clueless. If stories are true and we are having trouble backing the new manager with finances it all seems just pointless. Is he really that clueless that he had 200 million sitting around, invested it and has no idea what to do now. Where is the plan :-\

1. It was made clear that he was heading a consortium. Hardly any of it was his money.
2. Situation changed in China very shortly after they invested in relation to sending funds abroad.  He might well know exactly what they needed to do but simply cannot deliver it.
3. They overpaid by around 30% to 40% for the club, which makes it very difficult to get out without losing a fortune and “face”, which is massively important in China. 
4. Nothing will change until they and other club owners from China are “ordered” to disinvest (at whatever cost) by the Chinese government.  That time is possibly getting nearer from what I hear from business contacts in China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 26, 2021, 09:01:32 AM
1. It was made clear that he was heading a consortium. Hardly any of it was his money.
2. Situation changed in China very shortly after they invested in relation to sending funds abroad.  He might well know exactly what they needed to do but simply cannot deliver it.
3. They overpaid by around 30% to 40% for the club, which makes it very difficult to get out without losing a fortune and “face”, which is massively important in China. 
4. Nothing will change until they and other club owners from China are “ordered” to disinvest (at whatever cost) by the Chinese government.  That time is possibly getting nearer from what I hear from business contacts in China.

According to the Lepkowski/Goldberg podcast yesterday, Lai's personal investment is miniscule, probably less than the value owned by the minority shareholders. Allegedly Lai is listed as the controller of the 3 investment companies.

TBH, I'm not sure how that works.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 26, 2021, 09:27:24 AM
According to the Lepkowski/Goldberg podcast yesterday, Lai's personal investment is miniscule, probably less than the value owned by the minority shareholders. Allegedly Lai is listed as the controller of the 3 investment companies.

TBH, I'm not sure how that works.

My interpretation is that he is the front name of the consortium and was delegated by them the responsibility for overseeing this investment.  On that basis he would be regarded as the “controlling” person as the other investors are purely passive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 26, 2021, 09:27:49 AM
1. It was made clear that he was heading a consortium. Hardly any of it was his money.
2. Situation changed in China very shortly after they invested in relation to sending funds abroad.  He might well know exactly what they needed to do but simply cannot deliver it.
3. They overpaid by around 30% to 40% for the club, which makes it very difficult to get out without losing a fortune and “face”, which is massively important in China. 
4. Nothing will change until they and other club owners from China are “ordered” to disinvest (at whatever cost) by the Chinese government.  That time is possibly getting nearer from what I hear from business contacts in China.

Most of you know my views of Peace, so I am not going into that again. However, we find ourselves in this mess for a couple of reasons;

1. The price demanded by Peace was well in excess of what the club was actually worth, and;

2. The Chinese Governments change of position regarding overseas investment, which was not foreseen.

Lai [and his consortium]would have no problem selling us for, say £120 - 140m which is probably the correct price at the time, but he is unlikely to sell at that price due to how much he/they paid JP. It is also hugely apparent that they are not going to invest any more money into the club. 

I realise that this is a NSS statement but we find ourselves in this position due to one mans greed, and that is likely to continue for the foreseeable future.

'I believe this deal will enable Albion to build on strong, sustainable foundations that have been the cornerstone of the clubs progress'                   

Yeah right......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 26, 2021, 10:01:18 AM
Most of you know my views of Peace, so I am not going into that again. However, we find ourselves in this mess for a couple of reasons;

1. The price demanded by Peace was well in excess of what the club was actually worth, and;

2. The Chinese Governments change of position regarding overseas investment, which was not foreseen.

Lai [and his consortium]would have no problem selling us for, say £120 - 140m which is probably the correct price at the time, but he is unlikely to sell at that price due to how much he/they paid JP. It is also hugely apparent that they are not going to invest any more money into the club. 

I realise that this is a NSS statement but we find ourselves in this position due to one mans greed, and that is likely to continue for the foreseeable future.

'I believe this deal will enable Albion to build on strong, sustainable foundations that have been the cornerstone of the clubs progress'                   

Yeah right......

Almost correct - anything is worth what a willing buyer is prepared to pay to a willing seller.  That is it’s true value. That’s the free market.  Peace demanded a price and another party met  it, so his asking price was vindicated.  The fact that the buyer paid top price and many factors since have caused it to fall is not Peace’s fault. 

Whether or not he put the price ahead of everything else is a valid question but a different one altogether.  We don’t know what other offers he received at say up to 20% less, which he might have considered.  If the disparity in prices was too great then maybe he had little choice as a prudent businessman.  That’s not defending him - just commercial reality.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 26, 2021, 10:08:44 AM
Almost correct - anything is worth what a willing buyer is prepared to pay to a willing seller.  That is it’s true value. That’s the free market.  Peace demanded a price and another party met  it, so his asking price was vindicated.  The fact that the buyer paid top price and many factors since have caused it to fall is not Peace’s fault. 

Whether or not he put the price ahead of everything else is a valid question but a different one altogether.  We don’t know what other offers he received at say up to 20% less, which he might have considered.  If the disparity in prices was too great then maybe he had little choice as a prudent businessman.  That’s not defending him - just commercial reality.

I fully agree with your first paragraph OB, but the price Peace set is now our major stumbling block to any meaningful progression.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 26, 2021, 10:29:02 AM
According to the Lepkowski/Goldberg podcast yesterday, Lai's personal investment is miniscule, probably less than the value owned by the minority shareholders. Allegedly Lai is listed as the controller of the 3 investment companies.

TBH, I'm not sure how that works.

Sorry Lepkowski/Goldberg have been consistently wrong on just about everything to do with the ownership and should just stick to whining about football.

The ownership of the club is as follows and until someone can categorically point to some actual evidence to the contrary that is what it is. Figures in brackets is the value of the equity at the time of the sale rounded to the nearest million.

Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited own 88% (£188m)
Minority Shareholders own 12% (£22.56m)

Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited is in turn owned as follows

Lai 59% (£110m)
Yunyi Investment 23% (£43m)
Palm 18% (£34m)

The percentages can fluctuate between the parties until Lai's shareholding drops below 51% and therefore no longer has a controlling interest. Any new partner has to pass owners and directors. Palm is a publicly traded company any significant additional investment or disinvestment has to be reported to the Shanghai stock exchange.

 As inadequate as the PL might be in managing who owns clubs (it is as lightly controlled as it is because the current club owners want it that way) who owns what and source of funds is regulated and is clear and understood. 

So until something happens to change something then it is a complete none story. It's not fake news it is none news. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wodenson46 on January 26, 2021, 10:58:05 AM
There are yachts cluttering up and spoiling the little picturesque ex fishing harbours of the world that were bought for a lot more than the cost of WBA. We wouldn't be the most expensive of 'toys' to buy and build for a few years. Too late for me personally, but wouldn't mind Albion being a billionaires plaything for a while 8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 26, 2021, 02:02:34 PM
Records in China show…’ – BBC journalist details major new twist in West Brom ownership puzzle

Source: https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/01/26/records-in-china-show-bbc-journalist-details-major-new-twist-in-west-brom-ownership-puzzle/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 26, 2021, 02:13:53 PM
Records in China show…’ – BBC journalist details major new twist in West Brom ownership puzzle

Source: https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/01/26/records-in-china-show-bbc-journalist-details-major-new-twist-in-west-brom-ownership-puzzle/

Piqued my interest, but it's just Goldberg. Not an actual BBC investigative journalist.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on January 26, 2021, 02:56:39 PM
Thanks for the info Standaman, i dont claim to know lots about it so it helps when you break the ownership down.

Is there a way you can send that to Lepkowski / Goldberg? I have noticed Lepkowski inparticular seems to really be trying to get stuck into that story and i have found it hard to understand if things were as they portray why more senior journalists (Percy, etc) as well as other media outlets havent picked up on it.

I follow him on social media and he seems to have a knack of being quite dismissive to people who have a different opinion and lately seems to enjoy any failures that come Albions way in a bit of a told you so way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 26, 2021, 08:12:52 PM
Thanks for the info Standaman, i dont claim to know lots about it so it helps when you break the ownership down.

Is there a way you can send that to Lepkowski / Goldberg? I have noticed Lepkowski inparticular seems to really be trying to get stuck into that story and i have found it hard to understand if things were as they portray why more senior journalists (Percy, etc) as well as other media outlets havent picked up on it.

I follow him on social media and he seems to have a knack of being quite dismissive to people who have a different opinion and lately seems to enjoy any failures that come Albions way in a bit of a told you so way.

Think they're throwing things out to get a reaction.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on January 26, 2021, 09:16:47 PM
Sell up. Give me back the club I am proud to support.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 09:22:37 PM
At least Jeremy Peace sold us to someone who only had the club's best interests to heart and not the highest bidder.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 26, 2021, 10:18:05 PM
The buck stops at least Lai and Dowling.
Wimps who know no better.
They're NOT businessmen
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on January 26, 2021, 10:32:01 PM
LAI OUT
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on January 27, 2021, 12:03:39 AM
LAI OUT
I’m tryin!! The sofa’s..burp.. too short! Hic!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on January 27, 2021, 10:05:27 AM
I’m tryin!! The sofa’s..burp.. too short! Hic!

Well Lai down then
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 06, 2021, 05:12:08 PM
Owners spending in this window was half a million with Field and Kipre being moved on so money could be made available for Niles and Yokulsus wages. How the hell did this bloke become a billionaire? Hasn't got a clue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on February 06, 2021, 05:27:10 PM
The first assumption is debatable, he may not be a billionaire. Lai has no interest in the club other than getting his money out without risking anymore.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 06, 2021, 05:33:55 PM
The first assumption is debatable, he may not be a billionaire. Lai has no interest in the club other than getting his money out without risking anymore.
going to lose a packet if he wants to sell club in Championship hence my question or did daddy leave an inheritance?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on February 06, 2021, 10:13:02 PM
Sure I read somewhere a couple of weeks ago that there was a bid worth 130mill if we stayed in the Prem or 105 mill if we are relegated. If I was Lai then I’d snap their hands off. Realistically if we get relegated we would be worth 75 mill maximum.

We’re going to need serious investment this summer whether we stay up (unlikely) or if we go down. Lai clearly doesn’t have the funds, realistically we could easily become a mid Championship club which further decreases our value. It’s best for all parties if he sells up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 06, 2021, 10:42:47 PM
Can't even find funds for Mausa deal blokes a joke.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on February 06, 2021, 11:04:36 PM
The fact he has no interest in the club really hurts us, I don’t want want a billionaire owner ploughing money into the club just someone’s who’s invested long term & has a clear plan & future for the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 06, 2021, 11:13:04 PM
The fact he has no interest in the club really hurts us, I don’t want want a billionaire owner ploughing money into the club just someone’s who’s invested long term & has a clear plan & future for the club
I definitely want a billionaire to pump money in as that's the only way to compete in this league. Like to see us win the league or Cup competitions have a run in Europe as well or why bother?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 07, 2021, 08:48:38 AM
I definitely want a billionaire to pump money in as that's the only way to compete in this league. Like to see us win the league or Cup competitions have a run in Europe as well or why bother?

Those days of a billionaire pumping the sums you want are long gone.

We may have an owner with some deeper pockets but our approach to recruitment has to be more joined up than it currently is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 07, 2021, 10:40:05 AM
Can't think of any time that Lai's mug has been shown on the official web site except for when he was first announced. Maybe he had visions of many photo opportunities as we went from strength to strength over the years of his tenure.

I don't want a billionaire owner pumping in money (though I'm sure that could help).

I want someone like Bill Kenwright. That model would be ideal for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on February 07, 2021, 02:53:47 PM
Forget Bilic , forget Allardyce .
This bloke and band of men including Dowling are responsible for the mess you see now .
Tried to do everything on the cheap , hit the panic button far too late .
They don't want the club , we don't want them .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 07, 2021, 02:55:53 PM
It's not the fact he doesnt pump money in that the clubs screwed, it's the fact he does not give a damn. This attitude is rife within the club from the top to the bottom.

A urine poor watchman.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on February 07, 2021, 02:58:25 PM
Everyone bangs on about us doing things on the cheap, but I’ve yet to see anyone explain how we get more money other than gamble the future income.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 07, 2021, 03:04:05 PM
The buck stops here.
Except it doesn't, he seems to ignore it and passes it back down.
So does the buck stop at Dowling?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on February 07, 2021, 03:09:53 PM
Everyone bangs on about us doing things on the cheap, but I’ve yet to see anyone explain how we get more money other than gamble the future income.
How about every decent player we sniff round we offer either a low fee or we beg clubs to accept deals paid over a long stretch ? . There's bargains and then theres dragging every single deal out again and again .
These deals we have done in the Jan window is how we should approached the Summer window .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 07, 2021, 06:05:28 PM
Everyone bangs on about us doing things on the cheap, but I’ve yet to see anyone explain how we get more money other than gamble the future income.

*Sign young, up-and coming players.  Give the academy kids game time. Those that are too good for us get moves for decent money, which we can reinvest in the team. Those who are good enough for us stay and fill out out squad. Those that aren't good enough can be moved on for smaller fees to lower clubs, which covers the cost of bringing in new younger players.

*Look into the clubs off-field income. It's been mentioned before that the club *may* have an extensive portfolio of land. Do something with it. Build houses and sell them off. Build flats and rent them out. Build shops, offices, entertainment centres, whatever exists in a post-Covid world. Sell it off and bring the cash back into the club. No use just sitting on it.

*Look for other revenue streams. We don't want the Hawthorns sponsored, but can we sell other sponsorships to bring in more money. Can we advertise more stuff somewhere.

*Make attempts to expand the fan base. This is the most difficult one, and the one I struggle to find an answer to. But there are a lot of older people in the Hawthorns on matchdays, and I don't really see younger faces replacing them. The changing face of the local community, people who don't have deep historical ties to the area doesn't help, while our traditional fanbase moves further afield. It's a long-term problem that requires long-term solutions.

Those are just starting points, but they are basic ones that the club should be looking at to maximise its income. The fact that we aren't doing this shows a complete lack of forethought on the part of everybody involved.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on February 08, 2021, 04:38:43 PM
current owner has no interest beyond selling. long term plans such as those above do nothing to maximise his return in the near term. This is not going to change, when we get relegated to the championship expect the same. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on February 08, 2021, 05:18:53 PM
I definitely want a billionaire to pump money in as that's the only way to compete in this league. Like to see us win the league or Cup competitions have a run in Europe as well or why bother?

Is what you're saying is that people who support League 1 and 2 clubs shouldn't bother as the chances of their club winning anything other than the occasional promotion are slight.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 08, 2021, 06:02:23 PM
current owner has no interest beyond selling. long term plans such as those above do nothing to maximise his return in the near term. This is not going to change, when we get relegated to the championship expect the same.

That's as may be but he needs to get interested fast or his investment is going to completely disappear.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on February 08, 2021, 06:31:48 PM
*Sign young, up-and coming players.  Give the academy kids game time. Those that are too good for us get moves for decent money, which we can reinvest in the team. Those who are good enough for us stay and fill out out squad. Those that aren't good enough can be moved on for smaller fees to lower clubs, which covers the cost of bringing in new younger players.

*Look into the clubs off-field income. It's been mentioned before that the club *may* have an extensive portfolio of land. Do something with it. Build houses and sell them off. Build flats and rent them out. Build shops, offices, entertainment centres, whatever exists in a post-Covid world. Sell it off and bring the cash back into the club. No use just sitting on it.

*Look for other revenue streams. We don't want the Hawthorns sponsored, but can we sell other sponsorships to bring in more money. Can we advertise more stuff somewhere.

*Make attempts to expand the fan base. This is the most difficult one, and the one I struggle to find an answer to. But there are a lot of older people in the Hawthorns on matchdays, and I don't really see younger faces replacing them. The changing face of the local community, people who don't have deep historical ties to the area doesn't help, while our traditional fanbase moves further afield. It's a long-term problem that requires long-term solutions.

Those are just starting points, but they are basic ones that the club should be looking at to maximise its income. The fact that we aren't doing this shows a complete lack of forethought on the part of everybody involved.

I don’t disagree with most of what you’ve said, but it’s sort of missing this point. That would all be club driven income which by all accounts we do seem to spend. The connotations of being cheap are that you have more but choose not to utilise it, whereas this doesn’t seem to be the case at all. Where’s the treasure chest we have laying around and aren’t using?

Our transfer policy should be to signing young up and coming players I agree. We  should always  be looking to develop our fan base and commercial income, are we doing enough, probably not. I’d imagine commmercial income is a drop in the ocean compared to premier league tv money, but we have to build where we can.

I’m not sure the club becoming a property building company is the right way to go though.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on February 11, 2021, 12:39:41 PM
He’s still here
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 11, 2021, 01:33:28 PM
How on Earth he can call himself a businessman, I cannot understand.
To grow and reap a reward, you have to invest. You just cannot afford to stand still in business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on February 11, 2021, 04:37:35 PM
Booooo Lai Out
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on February 11, 2021, 04:58:17 PM
How on Earth he can call himself a businessman, I cannot understand.
To grow and reap a reward, you have to invest. You just cannot afford to stand still in business.

I'd like to know what people mean when they say we should invest,  and say things like you have. What exactly are you asking for?  His own money, or to borrow against future income?

If an owner need to keep putting their own money in to a business, you generally have a failing business.

Most businesses look to perform well and then reinvest their own profits to grow, or would borrow against the business.

We 'invest' every time we buy a player, we 'invest' in the academy every day.  The comparisons between football and usual businesses dont really stand up.

I think most cry's for investment are just wanting a cash injection from the owner.   

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 11, 2021, 05:03:16 PM
His own money first, then he can take it back out with interest, when we move forward.
Or even sell onto someone else, as an ongoing profit making business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on February 11, 2021, 05:26:19 PM
I'd like to know what people mean when they say we should invest,  and say things like you have. What exactly are you asking for?  His own money, or to borrow against future income?

If an owner need to keep putting their own money in to a business, you generally have a failing business.

Most businesses look to perform well and then reinvest their own profits to grow, or would borrow against the business.

We 'invest' every time we buy a player, we 'invest' in the academy every day.  The comparisons between football and usual businesses dont really stand up.

I think most cry's for investment are just wanting a cash injection from the owner.

Understand what you are trying to say but you talk about a 'failing business'. Once we are relegated no more Premier League money so is that not a failure?.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on February 11, 2021, 05:52:42 PM
Every game we loose the price drops.  When is he going to fold?   Even with the desire not to loose face, the Chinese - including his backers - know the difference between gambling and dithering.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on February 11, 2021, 06:51:16 PM
We have gone past the point of trying to sell this as a premiership club. We have gone past the point at which we could bring more players in. he may sell in the summer and just take the loss but he didn't do that las time. Other than asking for his money back in a sale i don't see any strategy to improve the value of the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 17, 2021, 04:31:35 PM
Just been watching a program on the TV.
In it someone said.
"In business, you have to invest for the future, or it shows that you can't see a future."
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 17, 2021, 05:24:32 PM
Just been watching a program on the TV.
In it someone said.
"In business, you have to invest for the future, or it shows that you can't see a future."

Someone asked recently what exactly do you (not you personally) mean by invest? The club reinvests virtually all it's earnings back into the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 17, 2021, 05:56:45 PM
Do what Sheik Mansour at Man City did, and plough some of his own money into the team and then reap the rewards.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 17, 2021, 06:01:13 PM
Do what Sheik Mansour at Man City did, and plough some of his own money into the team and then reap the rewards.

I'll let someone else take this one mate  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on February 17, 2021, 06:52:14 PM
Someone asked recently what exactly do you (not you personally) mean by invest? The club reinvests virtually all it's earnings back into the club.

There doesn’t even seem to be a shareholder dividend either so there isn’t any money going out to China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 17, 2021, 07:21:53 PM
I'll let someone else take this one mate  ;D

£22Bn reasons why Jacko declined,

Man city isn't even an entry on the Sheiks balance sheet, whereas Lai has a large slice of his cake in WBAFC (metaphors inc!)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on February 17, 2021, 08:32:44 PM
There doesn’t even seem to be a shareholder dividend either so there isn’t any money going out to China.

There's many ways you can get money out of a business that doesn't involve direct dividends and wages.  I'm not saying that this is what he's done by the way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 17, 2021, 09:13:56 PM
Who is getting paid for the new development at the training ground? Palm by any chance?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 17, 2021, 10:07:39 PM
There's many ways you can get money out of a business that doesn't involve direct dividends and wages.  I'm not saying that this is what he's done by the way.

Tell me more
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on February 17, 2021, 10:43:23 PM
Tell me more

Have other companies that have beneficial tax rates or benefits and agree commercial terms with them.  Not unlike Trump using his own hotels to stay at as part of the presidency, the money didn't go directly into his pocket but it will end up there one way or the other. 

Or say somewhere like Singapore that has really low tax rates, so Company A pays Singapore Company B for services.  Person A takes money out of Company B.  Company A now has reduced profit, so pays less corporation tax, while Person A gets their money at a reduced tax rate, meanwhile, it doesn't look like Person A has taken money from Company A, etc.

Stuff like this happens all the while, kickbacks can be similar.  Or say you hire building firm A to do some work for your company at a high rate, and in exchange he does work on your house at a low rate.

Like I said, I've no idea what Lai does, I'm just saying that having his West Brom Company pay dividends or big wages won't be the only way to move cash around to his benefit if he wanted to.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on February 18, 2021, 04:31:04 AM
he wants out, don't think he is that creative with money. Got sold a lemon and would like to sell it as lemonade (with an expensive dash of port)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 18, 2021, 08:41:04 AM
Have other companies that have beneficial tax rates or benefits and agree commercial terms with them.  Not unlike Trump using his own hotels to stay at as part of the presidency, the money didn't go directly into his pocket but it will end up there one way or the other. 

Or say somewhere like Singapore that has really low tax rates, so Company A pays Singapore Company B for services.  Person A takes money out of Company B.  Company A now has reduced profit, so pays less corporation tax, while Person A gets their money at a reduced tax rate, meanwhile, it doesn't look like Person A has taken money from Company A, etc.

Stuff like this happens all the while, kickbacks can be similar.  Or say you hire building firm A to do some work for your company at a high rate, and in exchange he does work on your house at a low rate.

Like I said, I've no idea what Lai does, I'm just saying that having his West Brom Company pay dividends or big wages won't be the only way to move cash around to his benefit if he wanted to.

WBAFC don't pay enough tax to make tax avoidance worth while.

A company only pays tax on it's profits, & some years WBAFC have made a loss, so paid no tax at all.

Lai is not an employee of WBAFC, so he doesn't get paid a wage.

By company law, any monies made by WBAFC belongs to the company.

Lai owns 88% of the shares of WBAFC & all of WBA Holdings, the only way he can get a return on his investment is either by dividend, or by selling all or part of his shareholding.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 18, 2021, 10:02:32 AM
WBAFC don't pay enough tax to make tax avoidance worth while.

A company only pays tax on it's profits, & some years WBAFC have made a loss, so paid no tax at all.

Lai is not an employee of WBAFC, so he doesn't get paid a wage.

By company law, any monies made by WBAFC belongs to the company.

Lai owns 88% of the shares of WBAFC & all of WBA Holdings, the only way he can get a return on his investment is either by dividend, or by selling all or part of his shareholding.

I would also add that virtually all of the the Club's activities are UK based and therefore subject to UK tax law. So wages are paid through PAYE and VAT is levied on transactions the scope for leakage is limited.

Furthermore WBA's corporate structure is very straight forward and if there was a concerted effort to move money out from the club there would be a web of associated offshore companies there is no such web.

In general football clubs while being financial basket cases are fairly basic in their financial transactions when compared to a large multi-national corporation.

As much as fans would like there to be a grand conspiracy which further undermines Lai the truth is there isn't. There is just a not untypical level of ineptitude that characterises many football club owners who are seduced by the game and it's prospects for good PR and positive influence.  Both of which are wildly exaggerated. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 18, 2021, 10:27:40 AM
Any update on his attempt to sell club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 18, 2021, 11:10:55 AM
The last comment I have seen in the media was from Steve Madeley did a Q&A on the Athletic and the situation remains the same there has been some interest but the valuations are miles apart.

While Madeley is just your typical sports journalist and has no particular insight, the Athletic has a guy called Matt Slater who tends to work on the finance/ownership side of the game and his work is very well sourced, for instance he got to the details of the Burnley deal quicker than most. If there was anything significant happening I would think he is most likely to get the story therefore by proxy Madeley is probably right. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 18, 2021, 11:31:48 AM
The last comment I have seen in the media was from Steve Madeley did a Q&A on the Athletic and the situation remains the same there has been some interest but the valuations are miles apart.

While Madeley is just your typical sports journalist and has no particular insight, the Athletic has a guy called Matt Slater who tends to work on the finance/ownership side of the game and his work is very well sourced, for instance he got to the details of the Burnley deal quicker than most. If there was anything significant happening I would think he is most likely to get the story therefore by proxy Madeley is probably right.
will probably have Lai as owner in Championship then if he has got a price no one is willing pay.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Tank on February 18, 2021, 07:47:47 PM
WBAFC don't pay enough tax to make tax avoidance worth while.

A company only pays tax on it's profits, & some years WBAFC have made a loss, so paid no tax at all.

Lai is not an employee of WBAFC, so he doesn't get paid a wage.

By company law, any monies made by WBAFC belongs to the company.

Lai owns 88% of the shares of WBAFC & all of WBA Holdings, the only way he can get a return on his investment is either by dividend, or by selling all or part of his shareholding.

How did Jezza get round that?   He paid himself a handsome dividend for 4 or 5 years, which came to best part of a million p.a.  Then turned to paying himself a salary of +/- £1 million pa
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on February 18, 2021, 07:49:50 PM
How did Jezza get round that?   He paid himself a handsome dividend for 4 or 5 years, which came to best part of a million p.a.  Then turned to paying himself a salary of +/- £1 million pa

Peace was an employee as well as majority shareholder. Lai is simply a shareholder thus not on the payroll.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 18, 2021, 07:50:56 PM
How did Jezza get round that?   He paid himself a handsome dividend for 4 or 5 years, which came to best part of a million p.a.  Then turned to paying himself a salary of +/- £1 million pa

He was chairman of the club, on the payroll and therefore entitled to a wage?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on February 19, 2021, 12:27:40 AM
WBAFC don't pay enough tax to make tax avoidance worth while.

A company only pays tax on it's profits, & some years WBAFC have made a loss, so paid no tax at all.

Lai is not an employee of WBAFC, so he doesn't get paid a wage.

By company law, any monies made by WBAFC belongs to the company.

Lai owns 88% of the shares of WBAFC & all of WBA Holdings, the only way he can get a return on his investment is either by dividend, or by selling all or part of his shareholding.

I did very clearly say I don't know what Lai is doing, I'm just putting hypotheticals on how someone could get money from Company A without it showing up as a wage or dividends. 

Also not sure of your point on tax avoidance.  Again, just to be clear, I am not saying this is what Lai is doing, but companies that do use tax avoidance (or 'tax optimisation'), tend to not pay much tax because they're, well, avoiding it.

Your points, while true, don't paint an accurate picture of what could happen.  It would be simple for Company A to pay Company B large consultant fees.  It looks like Company A hasn't done very well as its not paid a lot Corporation Tax, but getting money from Company B could be a lot easier.

This stuff goes on all the time.  I worked for a company that had an art team and a programming team.  They were in the same building, on the same floor, working together.  He stuck one into administration and owed a lot of money.  His way of reducing tax and getting money out of the company was to have each team as its own company and they charged each other exaggerated fees for doing various work.  These costs were nothing but a way to soak up 'profits' to reduce his Corp Tax bill.  He then had a third, legit, company which had all the assets and the two other companies had to pay various expensive rental agreements for equipment, desks, etc.  For the 2 smaller companies they both looked like they hardly made any profit, neither of them had the owner on the payroll, and neither of them paid dividends.  He still extracted hundreds of thousands from those companies though.

Look at Starbucks and it's history of paying tax over here, doing things like a franchise paying expensive license fees for the name, all that does is move a chunk of cash from Company A to Company B.  Or beans having to be purchased from a Dutch Starbucks subsidery because the tax is cheaper there even though the beans are shipped direct from South America and never go near the Netherlands. 

Like I said, I've no idea what Lai does or how he's set up but if he wanted to move money from one of his companies to another and into his pocket there's many ways, its not just paying direct dividends and wages.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on February 19, 2021, 12:43:16 AM
Any ideas what Lai's plan was for the Chinese lad we signed?  Never eligible to play for us, cost Lai £6m out of his own pocket and Lai laid his wages.

He must have had a plan to recuperate that money? Its not like he'd have sold him on then suddenly start taking a heft wage, nor very likely he'd have suddenly paid a massive dividend to cover it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 19, 2021, 05:05:41 AM
Any ideas what Lai's plan was for the Chinese lad we signed?  Never eligible to play for us, cost Lai £6m out of his own pocket and Lai laid his wages.

He must have had a plan to recuperate that money? Its not like he'd have sold him on then suddenly start taking a heft wage, nor very likely he'd have suddenly paid a massive dividend to cover it.

Released in 2019 mate plays in chinese premier league at the moment
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on February 19, 2021, 06:55:43 AM
Released in 2019 mate plays in chinese premier league at the moment

Managed by Slaven Bilic now too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on February 19, 2021, 07:52:31 AM
Any ideas what Lai's plan was for the Chinese lad we signed?  Never eligible to play for us, cost Lai £6m out of his own pocket and Lai laid his wages.

He must have had a plan to recuperate that money? Its not like he'd have sold him on then suddenly start taking a heft wage, nor very likely he'd have suddenly paid a massive dividend to cover it.

You are giving him way too much credit there BA
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 19, 2021, 09:07:31 AM
Any ideas what Lai's plan was for the Chinese lad we signed?  Never eligible to play for us, cost Lai £6m out of his own pocket and Lai laid his wages.

He must have had a plan to recuperate that money? Its not like he'd have sold him on then suddenly start taking a heft wage, nor very likely he'd have suddenly paid a massive dividend to cover it.

I believe he wanted to give a Chinese national a chance to play in the EPL.

If it had worked, it would have increased Lai's stock tremendously in China.

Following the Tevez case at West Ham, third party ownership was forbidden by the football authorities, so although Lai provided the funds, the player was registered as a WBA player.

I doubt that Lai saw it as a commercial project, it was more politically motivated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 19, 2021, 01:32:35 PM
I did very clearly say I don't know what Lai is doing, I'm just putting hypotheticals on how someone could get money from Company A without it showing up as a wage or dividends. 

Also not sure of your point on tax avoidance.  Again, just to be clear, I am not saying this is what Lai is doing, but companies that do use tax avoidance (or 'tax optimisation'), tend to not pay much tax because they're, well, avoiding it.

Your points, while true, don't paint an accurate picture of what could happen.  It would be simple for Company A to pay Company B large consultant fees.  It looks like Company A hasn't done very well as its not paid a lot Corporation Tax, but getting money from Company B could be a lot easier.

This stuff goes on all the time.  I worked for a company that had an art team and a programming team.  They were in the same building, on the same floor, working together.  He stuck one into administration and owed a lot of money.  His way of reducing tax and getting money out of the company was to have each team as its own company and they charged each other exaggerated fees for doing various work.  These costs were nothing but a way to soak up 'profits' to reduce his Corp Tax bill.  He then had a third, legit, company which had all the assets and the two other companies had to pay various expensive rental agreements for equipment, desks, etc.  For the 2 smaller companies they both looked like they hardly made any profit, neither of them had the owner on the payroll, and neither of them paid dividends.  He still extracted hundreds of thousands from those companies though.

Look at Starbucks and it's history of paying tax over here, doing things like a franchise paying expensive license fees for the name, all that does is move a chunk of cash from Company A to Company B.  Or beans having to be purchased from a Dutch Starbucks subsidery because the tax is cheaper there even though the beans are shipped direct from South America and never go near the Netherlands. 

Like I said, I've no idea what Lai does or how he's set up but if he wanted to move money from one of his companies to another and into his pocket there's many ways, its not just paying direct dividends and wages.

Nope - any such transactions would need to be disclosed in the audited accounts as related party transactions and would need to be for bona fide services provided, not fake consultancy services
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 19, 2021, 07:25:52 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eum3hFSXAAIWWIS?format=jpg&name=large

Spotted on Twitter earlier this evening
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on February 19, 2021, 07:33:55 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eum3hFSXAAIWWIS?format=jpg&name=large

Spotted on Twitter earlier this evening

What unspent cash?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on February 19, 2021, 07:51:19 PM
Nope - any such transactions would need to be disclosed in the audited accounts as related party transactions and would need to be for bona fide services provided, not fake consultancy services

100% definitely not true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 20, 2021, 10:46:41 AM
100% definitely not true.

Please elaborate. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 20, 2021, 11:33:49 AM
How did Jezza get round that?   He paid himself a handsome dividend for 4 or 5 years, which came to best part of a million p.a.  Then turned to paying himself a salary of +/- £1 million pa
he was a greedy b and cared little for club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on February 20, 2021, 11:35:33 AM
he was a greedy b and cared little for club.

So now you want him to work for free and give the club away for nothing  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 20, 2021, 11:35:42 AM
He was chairman of the club, on the payroll and therefore entitled to a wage?
even when we were relagated and people were losing jobs this tool kept his salary.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on February 20, 2021, 11:51:03 AM
even when we were relagated and people were losing jobs this tool kept his salary.

Again...he was chairman and employee and entitied to a wage.

People lose their jobs, others who don’t still continue to get paid
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 20, 2021, 11:57:31 AM
Again...he was chairman and employee and entitied to a wage.

People lose their jobs, others who don’t still continue to get paid
well he could of taken pay cut like he expected the players and coaches of football club to do. But he's the chairman he's entitled just like he was entitled to use clubs money to buy shares and just as he's entitled to leave a £4 million debt from another dubious share deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 20, 2021, 12:11:29 PM
even when we were relagated and people were losing jobs this tool kept his salary.


I've just used an online statutory redundancy calculator to work out what he'd have been entitled to from the state should he have made himself redundant.

He was 57 when he sold us and served as chairman for ten years. Regardless of his pay he'd have only been able to claim on a maximum of £538 per week.

He'd have only been entitled to £8, 070. No way I'd have made myself redundant for in excess of £28,000 pw short of my wages either (£36,000 pw+).

Can't blame the man for trying to keep the Wolves from the door if he was only on £1.9mill a year. Poor little Jeremy, can't seem to do right for doing wrong be it for love or money  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on February 20, 2021, 12:28:57 PM
well he could of taken pay cut like he expected the players and coaches of football club to do. But he's the chairman he's entitled just like he was entitled to use clubs money to buy shares and just as he's entitled to leave a £4 million debt from another dubious share deal.

He could have. He didn’t have to though.

Any businessman that can not use his own money to create something that pays him nearly 200m is a damn good businessman.

Put it this way I enjoyed the journey we had under him than anything served up by Lai so far.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on February 20, 2021, 12:30:52 PM
well he could of taken pay cut like he expected the players and coaches of football club to do. But he's the chairman he's entitled just like he was entitled to use clubs money to buy shares and just as he's entitled to leave a £4 million debt from another dubious share deal.

Also the players and coaches signed contracts that meant that would happen.

He was the majority shareholder and therefore ENTITLED to do what he wanted.

An excellent chairman for me who we achieved a lot with
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 20, 2021, 12:50:11 PM
Also the players and coaches signed contracts that meant that would happen.

He was the majority shareholder and therefore ENTITLED to do what he wanted.

An excellent chairman for me who we achieved a lot with
just a lucky so and so who jumped on Paul and Gary's coat tails, the hard lifting was done before he became involved. So you thought he was an excellent chairman what are your thoughts of his five year plan that he promoted with great fanfare?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on February 20, 2021, 02:06:14 PM
just a lucky so and so who jumped on Paul and Gary's coat tails, the hard lifting was done before he became involved. So you thought he was an excellent chairman what are your thoughts of his five year plan that he promoted with great fanfare?

I think the fact we more than held our own under his leadership whilst also looking at the academy he oversaw and made sure was funded was excellent.

Paul Thompson was excellent also, but he was 5-6 years before our most successful times, don’t think he can be attributed to anything that happened so long after.

JP put a good team around him. Another excellent bit of work by him.

I don’t begrudge him the money he got for the club, he was a successful chairman for us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on February 20, 2021, 02:10:44 PM
I think the fact we more than held our own under his leadership whilst also looking at the academy he oversaw and made sure was funded was excellent.

Paul Thompson was excellent also, but he was 5-6 years before our most successful times, don’t think he can be attributed to anything that happened so long after.

JP put a good team around him. Another excellent bit of work by him.

I don’t begrudge him the money he got for the club, he was a successful chairman for us

I agree, at the helm for our most successful period for 30-35 years and this was 10 years after Thompson had left.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on February 20, 2021, 06:09:00 PM
I agree, at the helm for our most successful period for 30-35 years and this was 10 years after Thompson had left.
But we won nothing. No trophies in the cabinet. Just fleeting moments in a League we could never win. He then sells to the highest bidder for more than we’re worth, from an unpredictable part of the world, politically wise, and we’re left with the buyer being told by their government that being top of the football ladder is no longer a priority. Jez was in the right place, at the right time. Fair do’s. That’s capitalism. He’s sorted. I don’t think he really cares about our predicament. All he remembers, is no trophies, but enough money to keep Jersey afloat.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on February 20, 2021, 06:37:23 PM
But we won nothing. No trophies in the cabinet. Just fleeting moments in a League we could never win. He then sells to the highest bidder for more than we’re worth, from an unpredictable part of the world, politically wise, and we’re left with the buyer being told by their government that being top of the football ladder is no longer a priority. Jez was in the right place, at the right time. Fair do’s. That’s capitalism. He’s sorted. I don’t think he really cares about our predicament. All he remembers, is no trophies, but enough money to keep Jersey afloat.

If we are going to judge people by trophies then everyone has failed at West Brom for over 50 years.

I still can’t get my head around fans not expecting him to sell to the highest bidder, cloud cuckoo land thinking he’s going to give up £50m.

Like I’ve said before, it’s easy to tell other people what to do with their money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on February 20, 2021, 11:03:00 PM
If we are going to judge people by trophies then everyone has failed at West Brom for over 50 years.

I still can’t get my head around fans not expecting him to sell to the highest bidder, cloud cuckoo land thinking he’s going to give up £50m.

Like I’ve said before, it’s easy to tell other people what to do with their money.
And as an Albion fan, how have you benefited? I know some guy has left us with more money than he needs, and left us in the lurch.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggieboy79 on February 21, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
It looks like the Chinese Government has all but given up hope of hosting the World Cup and they've advised Lai and others to get rid of their investment. WBA, Wolves & Southampton have majority shareholders.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footballinsider247.com/west-brom-maguire-cultural-shift-in-china-leads-lai-to-pull-plug-on-wba/amp/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Tank on February 21, 2021, 12:13:12 PM
What happened to the office in London where, bizarrely, the AGMs were held.  Or was it only rented.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on February 21, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
What happened to the office in London where, bizarrely, the AGMs were held.  Or was it only rented.
I've no idea about the office, but the AGMs were held in London (usually starting at 9.00am as I recall) to discourage people from attending.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 21, 2021, 12:30:20 PM
It looks like the Chinese Government has all but given up hope of hosting the World Cup and they've advised Lai and others to get rid of their investment. WBA, Wolves & Southampton have majority shareholders.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footballinsider247.com/west-brom-maguire-cultural-shift-in-china-leads-lai-to-pull-plug-on-wba/amp/

China’s interpretation of “advise” is different to ours.  “Instruct” would be a better interpretation!   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggieboy79 on February 21, 2021, 01:05:38 PM
China’s interpretation of “advise” is different to ours.  “Instruct” would be a better interpretation!

Haha yes that sounds about right  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 21, 2021, 01:47:24 PM
It looks like the Chinese Government has all but given up hope of hosting the World Cup and they've advised Lai and others to get rid of their investment. WBA, Wolves & Southampton have majority shareholders.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footballinsider247.com/west-brom-maguire-cultural-shift-in-china-leads-lai-to-pull-plug-on-wba/amp/

This is interesting but nothing particularly new.

Official Chinese interest in football has cooled across the board and the thing that they most want progress on the international stage has evaded them. It was very apparent that Chinese investors splurging £100m's on overseas clubs or for that matter the Chinese Super League wasn't going to move that dial and as such the Chinese Government has been reining in their business community for some years. We may have reached the point where they are nudging them to disinvest but it is very unlikely to be a formal announcement.

Obviously this might prompt Lai to sell up but it doesn't alter the basic financial dynamics of the situation.

It was interesting that the two prospective buyers (being generally and vaguely in the market for an English club) are both American. Campbell has already been discussed on here and until he puts a serious bid together I think we can dismiss him as a serial tyre kicker (I am being kind here).

DaGrosa has a track record in Europe. He talks a good game. The vision is a Red Bull style group of clubs at various levels across leagues all of which makes perfect sense and requires a flagship top five league team. I suspect being the Group's flagship is generally good maybe being in the supporting cast less so.

He bought Bordeaux for $115m in 2018. The purchase was in partnership two other Private Equity firms King Street Capital Management and Fortress Investment Group (the firm founded by Villa joint owner Wes Edens). Things were a little chaotic behind the scenes and after just 12 months DaGrosa sold the bulk of his interest to the other partners (much muttering about paying too much and exaggerating the likely returns) he retains a 14% stake in Bordeaux.

None of the above are publicly traded entities so who paid what to whom is not clear but I suspect DaGrosa got his fingers burnt. He seems to be interested in buying another club but absolutely won't pay a premium price. This is a business man who buys distressed assets gives them a quick spit and polish and sells them on. He is not the fantasy owner that many on here seem to want.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on February 24, 2021, 01:15:12 PM
Worrying news continues from China. The government has huge influence on overseas investment goals by Chinese companies and individuals. This will affect what Lai does next. With Lai holding out for a top half premiere league valuation and our decent to the championship his exit options are diminishing. Desperate people do not normally make good decisions.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 28, 2021, 09:08:11 AM
Not directly related to Lai's ownership but Suning who are owners of Inter Milan have just announced that their Chinese club Jiangsu Suning will cease operations with immediate effect. The background to this is that the Suning Group is in financial difficulty and is plainly taking drastic action to retrench.

However in broader terms it does show two things firstly the Chinese football boom is now pretty much in full retreat and the often cited and much overstated culture of "saving face" has given way to "saving ass" As such events can move pretty damn quickly and unfortunately for us not in a particularly well ordered manner.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 28, 2021, 09:36:33 AM
Not directly related to Lai's ownership but Suning who are owners of Inter Milan have just announced that their Chinese club Jiangsu Suning will cease operations with immediate effect. The background to this is that the Suning Group is in financial difficulty and is plainly taking drastic action to retrench.

However in broader terms it does show two things firstly the Chinese football boom is now pretty much in full retreat and the often cited and much overstated culture of "saving face" has given way to "saving ass" As such events can move pretty damn quickly and unfortunately for us not in a particularly well ordered manner.   

That’s spot on.  “Face” is very important in Chinese culture when talking about voluntary decisions.  A defence against “face” is when it’s clear that one has no choice but to follow government orders.

Lai and his consortium will now be under much greater pressure to offload at a loss.  The worrying thing is that in their haste we could well find ourselves with a rogue owner rather than merely a passive and ineffective one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on February 28, 2021, 10:52:07 AM
Correct - be careful of what you wish for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on March 12, 2021, 11:44:20 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9356663/AHEAD-GAME-HMRC-slap-Premier-League-stars-tax-bill-agents-fees.html

Looks like a takeover has fell through
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 13, 2021, 01:07:32 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9356663/AHEAD-GAME-HMRC-slap-Premier-League-stars-tax-bill-agents-fees.html

Looks like a takeover has fell through

Sorry but the passage is gibberish. Lai is the owner it only matters what price he wants to accept Xu Ke is the CEO he can advise on what might be possible but ultimately it's Lai's decision. This is also the first that anybody has reported that we have entered a period of exclusivity and it has now just ended. It just makes no sense.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 13, 2021, 09:02:27 AM
Sorry but the passage is gibberish. Lai is the owner it only matters what price he wants to accept Xu Ke is the CEO he can advise on what might be possible but ultimately it's Lai's decision. This is also the first that anybody has reported that we have entered a period of exclusivity and it has now just ended. It just makes no sense.

I did wonder if SA is Lai's man or somebody elses
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on March 13, 2021, 03:24:56 PM
I don't think Lai even knows who is charge anymore or that we are in the Premier League except for maybe him getting his extra money. Interestingly about the Chinese league the only reason it got big was signing big Foreign Players Hulk, Oscar so on. There national team has some players playing who weren't born in China and have only been there for a few years. But I tried something on Fifa I removed all the clubs foreign players except for the one Rafa was in charge of although I was tempted to add Rondon back to Albion, but anyway there teams are bang average. I have a feeling many of these foreign players were old so are not far off retiring interest is dying due to either the fact the football is poor or the National Team aren't doing well due to lack of Youth investment. The government then want the likes of Lai, Fosun so on to withdraw from the Clubs they own to pump money into there domestic league to help the National Team.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on March 13, 2021, 03:51:43 PM
I don't think Lai even knows who is charge anymore or that we are in the Premier League except for maybe him getting his extra money. Interestingly about the Chinese league the only reason it got big was signing big Foreign Players Hulk, Oscar so on. There national team has some players playing who weren't born in China and have only been there for a few years. But I tried something on Fifa I removed all the clubs foreign players except for the one Rafa was in charge of although I was tempted to add Rondon back to Albion, but anyway there teams are bang average. I have a feeling many of these foreign players were old so are not far off retiring interest is dying due to either the fact the football is poor or the National Team aren't doing well due to lack of Youth investment. The government then want the likes of Lai, Fosun so on to withdraw from the Clubs they own to pump money into there domestic league to help the National Team.

What extra money? How much money do you think Lai takes out?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on March 13, 2021, 04:15:55 PM
What extra money? How much money do you think Lai takes out?
Extra money than we had in the Championship as we get more as a Club for being in the Premier League. Other than that Lai probably doesn't know that we are Promoted if he gets nothing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on March 13, 2021, 04:20:36 PM
Extra money than we had in the Championship as we get more as a Club for being in the Premier League. Other than that Lai probably doesn't know that we are Promoted if he gets nothing.

But how much do you think he takes out?

The answer is none but I just wanted to see what you thought he took out.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on March 13, 2021, 04:23:30 PM
But how much do you think he takes out?

The answer is none but I just wanted to see what you thought he took out.
I didn't awnser as I don't know he might have taken out money for all we knew but he probably notices the extra income
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on March 13, 2021, 04:41:09 PM
I didn't awnser as I don't know he might have taken out money for all we knew but he probably notices the extra income

He doesn’t take money out that’s what I’m saying.

All the money earnt at the club is reinvested back into the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on March 13, 2021, 04:52:57 PM
He doesn’t take money out that’s what I’m saying.

All the money earnt at the club is reinvested back into the club
I know you said but what I was saying was he could have been for all we knew. Anyway what ever reinvestment they do is usually rubbish.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on March 13, 2021, 05:04:15 PM
This sorry marriage is going to get heated and bitter now , I wish they would cut their losses and sell up .
Take that idiot Dowling with them too .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 13, 2021, 05:41:42 PM
I didn't awnser as I don't know he might have taken out money for all we knew but he probably notices the extra income

What do you mean “for all we knew”?  That’s what the audited accounts are for!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on March 13, 2021, 05:43:27 PM
Guochan Lai? Who's he?  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on March 13, 2021, 06:17:31 PM
Guochan Lai? Who's he?  ;D
He who!!😁
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on March 14, 2021, 12:56:35 PM
So what now? Lai does not know the first thing about how to run a club and in picking allardyce he now has a coach that just gave up. Allardyce is now looking for scapegoats and is signaling that nearly all of the summer signings are a bust. Apart from okay it also looks like January was poor as well. What does he do now, he wants out but if he can’t sell he has to find a new coach to get us out of the championship (Allardyce is not he answer, I used to think he was). The team around Lai are poor, from what I can see, so recruitment of players should not be left to them. It leaves us with the most pivotal question, who should be the next head coach? You would have to let him effectively act as DoF as well. Lai is not going to change everything without completely messing it up so I would suggest we need a coach/manager who can pick this squad up, add a couple for players leaving and loans finishing and go again in the championship. This should be our best chance of getting back up, however with the high degree of incompetence running the club who knows
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on March 29, 2021, 01:31:05 PM
3 of the 6 clubs having Chinese league license revoked are owned by companies which have clubs in Europe(1) Suning(Inter Milan)(2)Renhe(Reading)(3)Shenzhen Bogang's majority shareholder is Palm Sports, which own West Bromwich Albion. As Jiangsu, Bogang players' salary are unpaid.


Have just seen this on a Twitter account from something called Titan sports although the actual piece seems to be written by Prof Chadwick !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on March 29, 2021, 01:37:58 PM
3 of the 6 clubs having Chinese league license revoked are owned by companies which have clubs in Europe(1) Suning(Inter Milan)(2)Renhe(Reading)(3)Shenzhen Bogang's majority shareholder is Palm Sports, which own West Bromwich Albion. As Jiangsu, Bogang players' salary are unpaid
Have just seen this on a Twitter account from something called Titan sports although the actual piece seems to be written by Prof Chadwick !
https://twitter.com/titan_plus/status/1376503528848384017/photo/1
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 29, 2021, 01:38:37 PM
that does not bode well
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on March 29, 2021, 01:53:46 PM
Hopefully the beginning of the end for this unhappy marriage , yes you have to cautious who is next but there's not much of a future with this mysterious lot .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 29, 2021, 06:24:01 PM
Chinese government thinks he's an idiot #welcome to the club. 😭
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on March 29, 2021, 06:37:16 PM
Chinese government thinks he's an idiot #welcome to the club. 😭
They think the same as us nice to know the Chinese agree they can take him back
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on March 29, 2021, 07:22:08 PM
Palm Sports don’t own us though do they?

I thought Lai had a shareholding in Palm Sports but we are owned by Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited of which Lai is the majority shareholder

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on March 29, 2021, 07:31:06 PM
Palm Sports don’t own us though do they?

I thought Lai had a shareholding in Palm Sports but we are owned by Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited of which Lai is the majority shareholder
Yeah, I think you are right. Doesn't really change much though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 29, 2021, 07:51:32 PM
Palm Sports don’t own us though do they?

I thought Lai had a shareholding in Palm Sports but we are owned by Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited of which Lai is the majority shareholder

Haven't got a clue Tom.

Company accounts confirm that the WBA ultimate parent company is Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Ltd. I understand that company is a consortium led by Lai, no idea if he is the majority shareholder.

I have heard of Palm Eco Town, which is the company Lai built, but he no longer holds a board position with the business.

Today is the first I've heard of Palm Sports.

To quote Einstein "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"

or was it Sir Walter Scott ?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 29, 2021, 08:25:35 PM
yes, but who do they own, WBAFC plc, WBA Holdings plc, or some other entity.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 30, 2021, 01:56:27 AM
It doesn't matter. There's an opportunity for a meltdown. Never turn your nose up at an opportunity for a meltdown. Ever. It's the law.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 30, 2021, 11:00:15 AM
Haven't got a clue Tom.

Company accounts confirm that the WBA ultimate parent company is Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Ltd. I understand that company is a consortium led by Lai, no idea if he is the majority shareholder.

I have heard of Palm Eco Town, which is the company Lai built, but he no longer holds a board position with the business.

Today is the first I've heard of Palm Sports.

To quote Einstein "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive"

or was it Sir Walter Scott ?

Are you sure Einstein said that John? ;D

I can absolutely assure you that you will be corrected in due course!

I questioned the actual ownership a couple of weeks ago and was referred to Companies House, but it just seems way to murky for me. I don't think this is going to end well to be honest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 30, 2021, 02:22:05 PM
Are you sure Einstein said that John? ;D

I can absolutely assure you that you will be corrected in due course!

I questioned the actual ownership a couple of weeks ago and was referred to Companies House, but it just seems way to murky for me. I don't think this is going to end well to be honest.


Our latest accounts (to June 2019) are available to view on the Companies House website.
A paragraph in that document states that WBA ultimate parent company is Unyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Ltd. I'm reasonably confident that Lai heads up that company, but I don't know the percentage of his equity. It might be that the other shareholders think that he is best qualified to lead the company & have nominated him to represent their interests.

Despite all the reports in UK media, I'm still yet to be convinced that Lai paid £190 million for us.

A number of members of this forum have unearthed articles from Chinese websites, including one from Palm Eco Town, that stated their contribution to the consortium was £30 million.
Allegedly the consortium consists of three contributors, Palm Eco Town & two asset management companies.
The ratio of contributions were 50%, 18% & 32%.
The wording of the statement suggests that Palm Eco Town contributed 18%, making the bid value at circa £167 million.

Now, I've no other information to challenge that version of the deal, except.......

When Lai took ownership of JP's shareholding, there was a massive campaign promoting Palm Eco Town, including Palm branding at the Hawthorns & shirt sponsorship & the re-naming of our training ground.

It looked to me that the success of WBA was to be closely linked to Lai's vision for Palm Eco Town.

Certainly didn't look like an 18% contribution to me.

If, on the other hand, Palm Eco Town contributed 50%, then the value of the bid would have been around £60 million, & probably closer to the true value of the club.

If Lai is trying to recover £60 million, then the hole is not quite so deep, but I guess we'll never know
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 30, 2021, 05:38:52 PM

Our latest accounts (to June 2019) are available to view on the Companies House website.
A paragraph in that document states that WBA ultimate parent company is Unyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Ltd. I'm reasonably confident that Lai heads up that company, but I don't know the percentage of his equity. It might be that the other shareholders think that he is best qualified to lead the company & have nominated him to represent their interests.

Despite all the reports in UK media, I'm still yet to be convinced that Lai paid £190 million for us.

A number of members of this forum have unearthed articles from Chinese websites, including one from Palm Eco Town, that stated their contribution to the consortium was £30 million.
Allegedly the consortium consists of three contributors, Palm Eco Town & two asset management companies.
The ratio of contributions were 50%, 18% & 32%.
The wording of the statement suggests that Palm Eco Town contributed 18%, making the bid value at circa £167 million.

Now, I've no other information to challenge that version of the deal, except.......

When Lai took ownership of JP's shareholding, there was a massive campaign promoting Palm Eco Town, including Palm branding at the Hawthorns & shirt sponsorship & the re-naming of our training ground.

It looked to me that the success of WBA was to be closely linked to Lai's vision for Palm Eco Town.

Certainly didn't look like an 18% contribution to me.

If, on the other hand, Palm Eco Town contributed 50%, then the value of the bid would have been around £60 million, & probably closer to the true value of the club.

If Lai is trying to recover £60 million, then the hole is not quite so deep, but I guess we'll never know

If it was linked the the success of WBA then the song ‘Ghost town’ springs to mind.

Good explanation John but still vague (not by you may I add)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 30, 2021, 06:07:58 PM
Swiss Ramble stated on Twitter in May 2020 that the 88% stake in the club was sold for £175 million.

The sponsorship deals with Palm which followed were just that, sponsorship deals.

If they had only paid £60 million we wouldn't be having this conversation because they could make a healthy profit with a sale tomorrow.

The sale price is widely accepted despite being undisclosed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 30, 2021, 11:25:23 PM

Our latest accounts (to June 2019) are available to view on the Companies House website.
A paragraph in that document states that WBA ultimate parent company is Unyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Ltd. I'm reasonably confident that Lai heads up that company, but I don't know the percentage of his equity. It might be that the other shareholders think that he is best qualified to lead the company & have nominated him to represent their interests.

Despite all the reports in UK media, I'm still yet to be convinced that Lai paid £190 million for us.

A number of members of this forum have unearthed articles from Chinese websites, including one from Palm Eco Town, that stated their contribution to the consortium was £30 million.
Allegedly the consortium consists of three contributors, Palm Eco Town & two asset management companies.
The ratio of contributions were 50%, 18% & 32%.
The wording of the statement suggests that Palm Eco Town contributed 18%, making the bid value at circa £167 million.

Now, I've no other information to challenge that version of the deal, except.......

When Lai took ownership of JP's shareholding, there was a massive campaign promoting Palm Eco Town, including Palm branding at the Hawthorns & shirt sponsorship & the re-naming of our training ground.

It looked to me that the success of WBA was to be closely linked to Lai's vision for Palm Eco Town.

Certainly didn't look like an 18% contribution to me.

If, on the other hand, Palm Eco Town contributed 50%, then the value of the bid would have been around £60 million, & probably closer to the true value of the club.

If Lai is trying to recover £60 million, then the hole is not quite so deep, but I guess we'll never know

I can state with absolute certainty that the figure was more like the £170m range because I know one of the other bidders was unsuccessful at around the £150m mark.  I can’t say any more, but Peace definitely did not sell for £60m!

Whether it was £167m or £175m could depend on exchange rates, brokerage fees etc.

If it is suggested that the Chinese investors in the consortium did only invest £60m of their own money then that is technically possible. The consortium vehicle may well have borrowed the balance of the purchase price (but that’s their debt, not the club’s debt - thankfully!).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 31, 2021, 09:55:14 AM
Palm Eco Development paid 300m yuan for 18% of Peace's controlling stake this gives a sale price of roughly £188m and a total valuation at the time (taking into account the 12% of the club held by the minority shareholders) of around £212m.

If Lai was prepared to sell at a massive loss then there is a potential for a future owner to get a profit i.e. buy the club for say £60m get it promoted and sell on at £120m. Yet it only works if we get promoted otherwise even £60m is too much because financially the Championship is just a slow bleed. Sheffield Wednesday were bought on that basis but at the moment it is costing the owner £0.5m a week just to keep the lights on.

Football makes no sense financially and without fundamental reform it never will. Yet the only people remotely interested in buying clubs (American Sports investors and Private Equity firms) are doing so with a view to making money. I am either missing something here or they are. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on March 31, 2021, 03:53:29 PM
Palm Eco Development paid 300m yuan for 18% of Peace's controlling stake this gives a sale price of roughly £188m and a total valuation at the time (taking into account the 12% of the club held by the minority shareholders) of around £212m.

If Lai was prepared to sell at a massive loss then there is a potential for a future owner to get a profit i.e. buy the club for say £60m get it promoted and sell on at £120m. Yet it only works if we get promoted otherwise even £60m is too much because financially the Championship is just a slow bleed. Sheffield Wednesday were bought on that basis but at the moment it is costing the owner £0.5m a week just to keep the lights on.

Football makes no sense financially and without fundamental reform it never will. Yet the only people remotely interested in buying clubs (American Sports investors and Private Equity firms) are doing so with a view to making money. I am either missing something here or they are.

We need owners who want to grow the size of the club, with a new Halfords lane, a better training ground, a bigger fan base and some ambition to get people exited again. It is difficult for us to compete in the premiership given we have wasted the opportunities over the past ten years to grow the size of the club; chiefly so Peace could post a small profit on his balance sheet for consecutive seasons in order to talk Lai into paying him as much money as possible. The premiership is the biggest league in the World and football the most popular sport in the World and yet we are run like a village parish.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 31, 2021, 05:01:35 PM
You can definitely tell it's International break when the old rebuild the Halfords shout resurfaces  ;D. Roll on Saturday when we can get back to moaning about Matt Phillips and looking like a slightly competitive side.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on April 01, 2021, 06:26:48 PM
We need owners who want to grow the size of the club, with a new Halfords lane, a better training ground, a bigger fan base and some ambition to get people exited again. It is difficult for us to compete in the premiership given we have wasted the opportunities over the past ten years to grow the size of the club; chiefly so Peace could post a small profit on his balance sheet for consecutive seasons in order to talk Lai into paying him as much money as possible. The premiership is the biggest league in the World and football the most popular sport in the World and yet we are run like a village parish.

We missed this opportunity a few years ago with the Pepe Mel/Alan Irvine saga and then the need for firefighter Pulis to come in. He fought the fires and then knocked the house down and we ended up with all these plodders like Livermore.

Halfords Lane, we do not need to think about that until we get the scouting, academy and playing side of things all back on track in my opinion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on April 01, 2021, 06:48:23 PM
We need owners who want to grow the size of the club, with a new Halfords lane, a better training ground, a bigger fan base and some ambition to get people exited again. It is difficult for us to compete in the premiership given we have wasted the opportunities over the past ten years to grow the size of the club; chiefly so Peace could post a small profit on his balance sheet for consecutive seasons in order to talk Lai into paying him as much money as possible. The premiership is the biggest league in the World and football the most popular sport in the World and yet we are run like a village parish.
Personally I think this particular boat has sailed. We had our chance when we were the only West Midlands club in the Premier league and blew it.
Reading the article about Tom Silk and all the subsequent years of penny pinching up to the point of where we were, really annoys me and I fear we will end up like a Nottingham Forest and languish in the Chumpionship for the forseeable future
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 02, 2021, 09:49:55 AM
Extending the Halfords is just a totem it makes zero practical difference either way. It does not move the dial at all even in the absolute best case scenario it might put an average Premier League player on the pitch and you could achieve the same impact on the club's revenues by increasing the prices by 20% (which if you think you can fill the extra seats you should be able to sustain.)

This or something similar is the best version of WBA. We are in the same boat as every other club that isn't the preeminent club in it's region nor the beneficiary of sports washing or happened to be have developed a nationwide fanbase at outset of the television age (in practical terms the 1970's) which has subsequently developed into a global monster in the digital age.

If you want ambition that might make any significant difference it is a new stadium with double the capacity heavy none football usage and greatly increased matchday revenues per seat.

Frankly I don't see us being bought any of the dozen or so multi billionaires with the wealth to do that  let alone put a team on the pitch capable of filling that stadium and getting the regular Champions League qualification that would be needed make the project vaguely self sustaining.

Watching Farhad Moshiri trying to do this with Everton would be funny were it not a terrible waste of resources (£400m and counting) and in the context of that level of stupidity 5,000 seats in the Hawthorns is like trying to put out an oil well fire with a water pistol. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 02, 2021, 02:01:36 PM
Great post, Stan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 02, 2021, 02:09:14 PM
Won't be any redevelopment under this owner but to move to next level ground needs updating and thinking outside box hotel, sports and business complex could be part of planning.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on April 02, 2021, 03:15:02 PM
Won't be any redevelopment under this owner but to move to next level ground needs updating and thinking outside box hotel, sports and business complex could be part of planning.

Is there a need for a sports / business complex or a hotel on the A41 between the motorway and Handsworth?  I somehow doubt it !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 03, 2021, 12:06:17 PM
Is there a need for a sports / business complex or a hotel on the A41 between the motorway and Handsworth?  I somehow doubt it !

There's a lack of sports facilities in the area. As for hotels near motorways business men will always need them during 'normal' times. We won't be in a pandemic forever.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 04, 2021, 12:51:13 PM
Moxley reporting that Lai in exclusivity talks with interested buyer who wants Allardyce here next season if we get relegated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on April 04, 2021, 12:54:19 PM
Moxley reporting that Lai in exclusivity talks with interested buy who wants Allardyce here next season if we get relegated.
lines up with the rumour from months ago that Allardyce was put in place as part of an agreement with the mystery buyer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 04, 2021, 12:58:20 PM
Lia could be gone by start of next season hopefully
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on April 04, 2021, 12:58:44 PM
Cant wait for Lai to go.

It's no good though if he sells to another dead loss.

We need the same sort of luck as Vile got with their takeover.

Needless to say, not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 04, 2021, 01:06:54 PM
Not putting two and two together but with Allardyce comments on Friday about wanting funds to get club back on first attempt and Moxley's reporting in people this could have legs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on April 04, 2021, 01:07:56 PM
Not sure how true this is. On Facebook there is a page called Westbromnews. In my opinion this is purely a clickbait site.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on April 04, 2021, 01:20:22 PM
Where’s the article? Can’t find it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 04, 2021, 01:27:43 PM
Where’s the article? Can’t find it
west brom news
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 04, 2021, 01:40:40 PM
I don't normally link to the dreadful clickbait site but they have a photo of the Mirror print article.

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/04/04/west-brom-takeover-guochuan-lai-in-exclusivity-arrangement-with-potential-buyer/

Picking through the story it includes an exclusivity agreement with unidentified buyers although while the identity is shrouded in mystery they very specifically want to retain Allardyce under all circumstances.

Hate to dash everyone's hopes but it's Moxley and it's the Mirror when someone serious reports something serious I might take it seriously. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 04, 2021, 02:11:53 PM
All we can do is watch this space I suppose but owner wants or needs to sell. But what surprises me is that two valuations have been agreed, prem price and Championship price can't get head round this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on April 04, 2021, 02:16:56 PM
I don't normally link to the dreadful clickbait site but they have a photo of the Mirror print article.

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/04/04/west-brom-takeover-guochuan-lai-in-exclusivity-arrangement-with-potential-buyer/

Picking through the story it includes an exclusivity agreement with unidentified buyers although while the identity is shrouded in mystery they very specifically want to retain Allardyce under all circumstances.

Hate to dash everyone's hopes but it's Moxley and it's the Mirror when someone serious reports something serious I might take it seriously.


'dreadful clickbait site '. Worst Albion page on Facebook. I am more then happy to tell them they are clickbait. Obviously they don't like it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on April 04, 2021, 03:46:04 PM

'dreadful clickbait site '. Worst Albion page on Facebook. I am more then happy to tell them they are clickbait. Obviously they don't like it.

Without detracting from the topic too much, I have to agree with this about tthat site. They had an article a few days ago basically calling people who disagreed with the writer (I won't say journo in regard to that site in any way) "super fans".

I tried to comment but they wouldn't approve it  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 04, 2021, 04:08:16 PM
There's a lack of sports facilities in the area. As for hotels near motorways business men will always need them during 'normal' times. We won't be in a pandemic forever.
There may well be, but if I had to pick a hotel to stay in on business there’s no way I’d go on the border of handsworth when 20 mins either way you’ve got Sutton Coldfield,Solihull etc .
Also don’t see why Lai would look to improve local people’s sports facilities?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on April 04, 2021, 04:10:01 PM
I once wrote for what that site was before it became this and I have absolutely no credentials whatsoever! It’s turned into even more of a garbage site than it was before.

It just recycles and then posts opinions.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 04, 2021, 04:45:09 PM
I once wrote for what that site was before it became this and I have absolutely no credentials whatsoever! It’s turned into even more of a garbage site than it was before.

It just recycles and then posts opinions.

It's really cr@p isn't it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 04, 2021, 05:05:28 PM
There may well be, but if I had to pick a hotel to stay in on business there’s no way I’d go on the border of handsworth when 20 mins either way you’ve got Sutton Coldfield,Solihull etc .
Also don’t see why Lai would look to improve local people’s sports facilities?

To increase the value of what he and his associates own. Our value is currently based largely upon TV revenues. Apart from land that's pretty much it.

If business men want to travel to Sutton Coldfield and Solihull instead then good for them. I wonder why there's a new hotel travel thingy in West Brom. I know, it must be because there's no need for one, they have no business plan and just wanted to throw their money down the pan.

Or it could be that many business men don't leave the hotel and couldn't give a stuff about their surroundings once their bellies are full and they've closed their eyes for the night, and have direct access to the national roadways system when they awake from their slumbers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 04, 2021, 05:14:50 PM
There may well be, but if I had to pick a hotel to stay in on business there’s no way I’d go on the border of handsworth when 20 mins either way you’ve got Sutton Coldfield,Solihull etc .
Also don’t see why Lai would look to improve local people’s sports facilities?
There is also a Premier Inn not 5 minutes away from The Hawthorns in West Brom town Centre and about 20 minutes away on a good day is J10 of the M6 which has two Hotels right by it unless it was 2 as one burnt down but I'm not sure and I'm not sure if J9 has any by it and and about 2 minutes away from J10 in Bentley is a Premier Inn to but for the club to build a Hotel would help us financially. However I don't think we have the land to do it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 04, 2021, 05:15:06 PM
To increase the value of what he and his associates own. Our value is currently based largely upon TV revenues. Apart from land that's pretty much it.

If business men want to travel to Sutton Coldfield and Solihull instead then good for them. I wonder why there's a new hotel travel thingy in West Brom. I know, it must be because there's no need for one, they have no business plan and just wanted to throw their money down the pan.

Or it could be that many business men don't leave the hotel and couldn't give a stuff about their surroundings once their bellies are full and they've closed their eyes for the night, and have direct access to the national roadways system when they awake from their slumbers.
Well this businessman always goes for a walk or a run ...
Not sure that because it’s there it means it’s viable, many companies have opened operations in areas and then realised it didn’t work...that’s life.
There are of course those that do “close their eyes and don’t give a stuff” I just genuinely don’t think that our stadiums location would be attractive enough to make it work or worth the owners trying it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 04, 2021, 05:16:39 PM
There is also a Premier Inn not 5 minutes away from The Hawthorns in West Brom town Centre and about 20 minutes away on a good day is J10 of the M6 which has two Hotels right by it unless it was 2 as one burnt down but I'm not sure and I'm not sure if J9 has any by it and and about 2 minutes away from J10 in Bentley is a Premier Inn to but for the club to build a Hotel would help us financially. However I don't think we have the land to do it
There’s also one by the prem inn in West Brom....but I wouldn’t advise using it....unless you really want to make some interesting new friends 😀
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 04, 2021, 05:20:50 PM
Well this businessman always goes for a walk or a run .......

Plenty of pavements in West Brom Zippy, there's even a golf course and a run around Sandwell Valley to consider. If that's not to your particular taste the Brummie metropolis is only just down the road  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 04, 2021, 05:27:43 PM
There’s also one by the prem inn in West Brom....but I wouldn’t advise using it....unless you really want to make some interesting new friends 😀
I think I know the place your going on about from when Me and my dad walked from West Brom to The Hawthorns you pass what I thought was a Pub which my dad said isn't a Pub at all but a rather strange place
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on April 05, 2021, 02:54:12 PM
Lepkowski has fleshed out the bones of Morley’s story today slightly basically suggesting the buyer wants a structured deal dependent on what division we find ourselves in rather than a set price
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 05, 2021, 03:07:04 PM
Lepkowski has fleshed out the bones of Morley’s story today slightly basically suggesting the buyer wants a structured deal dependent on what division we find ourselves in rather than a set price


We were told about a similar deal to this before weren't we. I wonder if its same buyer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on April 05, 2021, 03:08:21 PM
Lepkowski has fleshed out the bones of Morley’s story today slightly basically suggesting the buyer wants a structured deal dependent on what division we find ourselves in rather than a set price

well thats just common sense, which we discussed on here at length months ago. Not shooting the messenger by the way, just the message is not insightful IMO

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on April 05, 2021, 05:37:23 PM

We were told about a similar deal to this before weren't we. I wonder if its same buyer.
He (CL) seems to be of the opinion that it is . It does seem to have gone half a step further with the preferred bidder scenario in play
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 05, 2021, 05:40:52 PM
He (CL) seems to be of the opinion that it is . It does seem to have gone half a step further with the preferred bidder scenario in play

Thanks for the info mate. Where can i find this article? or is it just CL twitter?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on April 05, 2021, 05:44:18 PM
It’s around on social media but did not originate on his Twitter feed . I think it is going to be stated on at least one of the podcasts he’s involved with as well . Having trouble with copy and paste but google ‘Lepkowski on WBA takeover ‘ and look for the most recent date . The actual article has today’s date on it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 05, 2021, 06:15:45 PM
Is this the article?

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/04/05/west-brom-takeover-news-interested-party-wants-structured-deal-with-guochuan-lai/ (https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/04/05/west-brom-takeover-news-interested-party-wants-structured-deal-with-guochuan-lai/)

It's explained better in the liquidator podcast.

Lepkowski is expressing similar concerns to those expressed by Standaman on here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on April 05, 2021, 06:56:33 PM
Yep that looks like the one John
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on April 10, 2021, 12:34:14 PM
Villa have spent substantial amounts on upgrading their training ground and academy. They are now commissioning plans to expand their stadium. But remember, any suggestion of new Halfords Lane to bring our stadium into the 21st century is a vanity project! Think small, stay small - should be our new club motto.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on April 10, 2021, 01:37:17 PM
Villa have spent substantial amounts on upgrading their training ground and academy. They are now commissioning plans to expand their stadium. But remember, any suggestion of new Halfords Lane to bring our stadium into the 21st century is a vanity project! Think small, stay small - should be our new club motto.
so have we... and both ground expansions ARE vanity projects.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on April 10, 2021, 01:39:19 PM
Villa have spent substantial amounts on upgrading their training ground and academy. They are now commissioning plans to expand their stadium. But remember, any suggestion of new Halfords Lane to bring our stadium into the 21st century is a vanity project! Think small, stay small - should be our new club motto.
[/b]

I suppose that's better than think Big go Bust
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 10, 2021, 04:58:06 PM
Villa have spent substantial amounts on upgrading their training ground and academy. They are now commissioning plans to expand their stadium. But remember, any suggestion of new Halfords Lane to bring our stadium into the 21st century is a vanity project! Think small, stay small - should be our new club motto.

They've also benefited greatly from a patch of land at the edge of their training ground which lay in the path of HS2, some very creative accounting re their academy and a member of the board who knows every crook and cranny of the Premier League's financial rules because he helped implement them. Their owners are also dripping with money and their motto remains as was; Jammy ********.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on April 10, 2021, 05:20:33 PM

[Villa have spent substantial amounts on upgrading their training ground and academy] so have we... and both ground expansions ARE vanity projects.

Have we, where is this mystery expenditure on out training ground? March 2012 we built a floodlit artificial pitch for the academy, that was eleven years ago. March 2013 we installed under soil heating. Steve Clarke was the manager then. Fact is we haven't had any significant capital investment to move the club on for the best part of a decade.

Also this ground expansions are vanity projects line is incredibly depressing. Was it a vanity project for Liverpool to rebuild their main stand in 2016? How about Everton building a brand new stadium on the docks. Or Wolves expanding Molinuex to 31,700.  What about Spurs rebuilding White Heart Lane, another vanity project? You either look to progress as a club or you get left behind.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on April 10, 2021, 06:05:16 PM
Have we, where is this mystery expenditure on out training ground? March 2012 we built a floodlit artificial pitch for the academy, that was eleven years ago. March 2013 we installed under soil heating. Steve Clarke was the manager then. Fact is we haven't had any significant capital investment to move the club on for the best part of a decade.

Also this ground expansions are vanity projects line is incredibly depressing. Was it a vanity project for Liverpool to rebuild their main stand in 2016? How about Everton building a brand new stadium on the docks. Or Wolves expanding Molinuex to 31,700.  What about Spurs rebuilding White Heart Lane, another vanity project? You either look to progress as a club or you get left behind.
We've rebuild the training pitches in the last couple of years and opened a new gym in the last couple of months, cafeteria was also refurbished recently. Not everything gets announced like it's some sports related **** waving match.

As for the expansions, Liverpool were partly paid by Liverpool council to do theirs, if West brom want to pay us then I'd imagine no one would have a problem obliging them. Everton's planned a move for 30 years, Molineux was a total VP (which is why for a long time it was seen as such a white/orange elephant) and White Hart Lane was vastly too small for it's fanbase for close to 20 years... they nearly double their capacity.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on April 10, 2021, 06:27:41 PM
"cafeteria was also refurbished recently" - in that case I take it all back, our ambition is limitless. I'm not okay that our club has stagnated for ten years and has a main stand that you'd expect to find at a local village bowling green.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wodenson46 on April 10, 2021, 06:59:55 PM
Stands, seats and shopping opportunities, or strikers and stoppers, it's a balancing act.
Useful if you can get somebody else to pay part of it, or even get given it if you are a second rate cockney club. Better still if you have an interested wealthy ownership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 10, 2021, 07:03:18 PM
Villa have spent substantial amounts on upgrading their training ground and academy. They are now commissioning plans to expand their stadium. But remember, any suggestion of new Halfords Lane to bring our stadium into the 21st century is a vanity project! Think small, stay small - should be our new club motto.

Think you need to read this again.

Quote
Villa have published their accounts for the financial year ending on May 31, 2020, which was two months prior to the club clinching Premier League survival on July 26.

Villa, meanwhile, outlined how the ongoing pandemic has resulted in £36.1 million of missed revenue with supporters remaining locked out out of Villa Park since February 16, 2020.

A statement on AVFC.CO.UK reads: "The impact of the COVID pandemic had a major effect on the financial results with significant losses of matchday income as matches went behind closed doors and a rebate being payable to broadcasters following the disruption of the season.

"The suspension of the Premier League in March and the subsequent conclusion of the league season after the financial year end on May 31st 2020 resulted in £36.1m of revenue which was expected to be recognised in the financial year now being recognised in the financial year ending May 31st 2021."................


Read more here

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-financial-results-nswe-20353613 (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-financial-results-nswe-20353613)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 10, 2021, 10:24:53 PM
They've also benefited greatly from a patch of land at the edge of their training ground which lay in the path of HS2, some very creative accounting re their academy and a member of the board who knows every crook and cranny of the Premier League's financial rules because he helped implement them. Their owners are also dripping with money and their motto remains as was; Jammy B@******.
Yep or If in Doubt Give Fall Over and rely on Greasy to Help us and if he is unavailable then try and not hope for a Spanking
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 19, 2021, 10:37:41 AM
It would appear our latest accounts have been published (way to bury bad news). Operating Loss of £53 million. Owner debt has not increased according to Swiss Ramble.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on April 19, 2021, 11:28:30 AM
It would appear our latest accounts have been published (way to bury bad news). Loss of £53 million. Owner debt has not increased according to Swiss Ramble.

That is wrong. You have mixed up the turnover figure of £53m with the profit and loss which was actually a £23.4m loss made up primarily from promotion bonuses and covid lost revenue. Link to the accounts:  https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/UOkHXvV7LRCAMYnSvSjIhgMClejSB8276_eVQSyikow/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3GI4BY3M6%2F20210419%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20210419T101917Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEAoaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJHMEUCIQDx2Px51fRhfCjVsIZ%2Fs51vp%2BN%2B8EGWqysnZiw3HCdrTgIgWbgHaRGoEhViJVBu%2BcOG5%2FyKV%2FRF915hfonKwLJFyWMqtAMIcxADGgw0NDkyMjkwMzI4MjIiDJZFjttfPx2N97ePQCqRAywf9De6kg7OM1vX8SLjTwDr3BP%2BvRoWUsAWtcuPJ8li5VbfqifKZ2ntG4mFvhQp1jwdPC%2F64TSE5ljCLkuHBuZQuwaqWbjstcH%2FOGYtMOuaY96vx%2BaCBo%2Fsyry9kzzOxAtnU0gSbFmBYO%2F3q3AuxzW72S3pyjbuWwjB%2FyMxvZQchv7w9WbhcBqdmsOXPF2%2B8OjhU%2BNrZ7Osc9ckt1UFV%2BboVuHmc41ZIX5tLVkkVrPW89UBML%2FGECN3qy1ORUT70QjrH38Lov7NZycWLTjCTaRqUXUgjpnNQF5wFRTyQFIF%2FAgi%2FypXno2%2BPra6tPdIBCYIEo4txH4bg1w2bBdQ9HRCk7TxX2FxqwhEAKxgT%2FQy6KZK6J%2Fr%2Bu6uOtdKTXB2GKMcks5YaXD3kExhixrFL6OA3CuN6ruzh98CU%2F3b6AEty0TvSkbYlYvkunWt7B45uLfzzSQMsMiVRECdgWX2XtzcdiEZqdEYFuZpcrRI%2BXpn65jHiviFNR3dBRxo1%2F2Xgsm5t3nDQeSpWrvE5Oig5cPFMN2Z9YMGOusBtj%2Fefno9rS6XJGtEzhL86Kytwy89vRk09BbNRfo3D4sXO1fHMEYmJBVdLEP8kNR6%2BOMW52U82PcP98qJ8jl%2Ft7kW%2B5e4iS9kReZlBXPEsVnzS27Qk6C6SjY6qG4C3rvOud3oDT6drRSYe8Ye8wJVOFO8pVXbOEXiDNHYzrXURkVt7VyCDhOJgX97wulaQOHw5GmAMASgt0oiGLbgW4OULS7rQ6QODuJVOE%2BRXJczbtUadrh4Q6bf00nXe7IIN0fOApCbeR%2BfDlDhbVVYtrWGRDEMW7YJUguzkl7Wl2c34qQY1ecIZYF32RI86g%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=b125fa4c08d5f37c3738d95199dd0db76049724dfe6ee3268ef4f2162a762ce9 (https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/UOkHXvV7LRCAMYnSvSjIhgMClejSB8276_eVQSyikow/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3GI4BY3M6%2F20210419%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20210419T101917Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEAoaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJHMEUCIQDx2Px51fRhfCjVsIZ%2Fs51vp%2BN%2B8EGWqysnZiw3HCdrTgIgWbgHaRGoEhViJVBu%2BcOG5%2FyKV%2FRF915hfonKwLJFyWMqtAMIcxADGgw0NDkyMjkwMzI4MjIiDJZFjttfPx2N97ePQCqRAywf9De6kg7OM1vX8SLjTwDr3BP%2BvRoWUsAWtcuPJ8li5VbfqifKZ2ntG4mFvhQp1jwdPC%2F64TSE5ljCLkuHBuZQuwaqWbjstcH%2FOGYtMOuaY96vx%2BaCBo%2Fsyry9kzzOxAtnU0gSbFmBYO%2F3q3AuxzW72S3pyjbuWwjB%2FyMxvZQchv7w9WbhcBqdmsOXPF2%2B8OjhU%2BNrZ7Osc9ckt1UFV%2BboVuHmc41ZIX5tLVkkVrPW89UBML%2FGECN3qy1ORUT70QjrH38Lov7NZycWLTjCTaRqUXUgjpnNQF5wFRTyQFIF%2FAgi%2FypXno2%2BPra6tPdIBCYIEo4txH4bg1w2bBdQ9HRCk7TxX2FxqwhEAKxgT%2FQy6KZK6J%2Fr%2Bu6uOtdKTXB2GKMcks5YaXD3kExhixrFL6OA3CuN6ruzh98CU%2F3b6AEty0TvSkbYlYvkunWt7B45uLfzzSQMsMiVRECdgWX2XtzcdiEZqdEYFuZpcrRI%2BXpn65jHiviFNR3dBRxo1%2F2Xgsm5t3nDQeSpWrvE5Oig5cPFMN2Z9YMGOusBtj%2Fefno9rS6XJGtEzhL86Kytwy89vRk09BbNRfo3D4sXO1fHMEYmJBVdLEP8kNR6%2BOMW52U82PcP98qJ8jl%2Ft7kW%2B5e4iS9kReZlBXPEsVnzS27Qk6C6SjY6qG4C3rvOud3oDT6drRSYe8Ye8wJVOFO8pVXbOEXiDNHYzrXURkVt7VyCDhOJgX97wulaQOHw5GmAMASgt0oiGLbgW4OULS7rQ6QODuJVOE%2BRXJczbtUadrh4Q6bf00nXe7IIN0fOApCbeR%2BfDlDhbVVYtrWGRDEMW7YJUguzkl7Wl2c34qQY1ecIZYF32RI86g%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=b125fa4c08d5f37c3738d95199dd0db76049724dfe6ee3268ef4f2162a762ce9)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 19, 2021, 11:35:21 AM
That is wrong. You have mixed up the turnover figure of £53m with the profit and loss which was actually a £23.4m loss made up primarily from promotion bonuses and covid lost revenue. Link to the accounts:  https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/UOkHXvV7LRCAMYnSvSjIhgMClejSB8276_eVQSyikow/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3GI4BY3M6%2F20210419%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20210419T101917Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEAoaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJHMEUCIQDx2Px51fRhfCjVsIZ%2Fs51vp%2BN%2B8EGWqysnZiw3HCdrTgIgWbgHaRGoEhViJVBu%2BcOG5%2FyKV%2FRF915hfonKwLJFyWMqtAMIcxADGgw0NDkyMjkwMzI4MjIiDJZFjttfPx2N97ePQCqRAywf9De6kg7OM1vX8SLjTwDr3BP%2BvRoWUsAWtcuPJ8li5VbfqifKZ2ntG4mFvhQp1jwdPC%2F64TSE5ljCLkuHBuZQuwaqWbjstcH%2FOGYtMOuaY96vx%2BaCBo%2Fsyry9kzzOxAtnU0gSbFmBYO%2F3q3AuxzW72S3pyjbuWwjB%2FyMxvZQchv7w9WbhcBqdmsOXPF2%2B8OjhU%2BNrZ7Osc9ckt1UFV%2BboVuHmc41ZIX5tLVkkVrPW89UBML%2FGECN3qy1ORUT70QjrH38Lov7NZycWLTjCTaRqUXUgjpnNQF5wFRTyQFIF%2FAgi%2FypXno2%2BPra6tPdIBCYIEo4txH4bg1w2bBdQ9HRCk7TxX2FxqwhEAKxgT%2FQy6KZK6J%2Fr%2Bu6uOtdKTXB2GKMcks5YaXD3kExhixrFL6OA3CuN6ruzh98CU%2F3b6AEty0TvSkbYlYvkunWt7B45uLfzzSQMsMiVRECdgWX2XtzcdiEZqdEYFuZpcrRI%2BXpn65jHiviFNR3dBRxo1%2F2Xgsm5t3nDQeSpWrvE5Oig5cPFMN2Z9YMGOusBtj%2Fefno9rS6XJGtEzhL86Kytwy89vRk09BbNRfo3D4sXO1fHMEYmJBVdLEP8kNR6%2BOMW52U82PcP98qJ8jl%2Ft7kW%2B5e4iS9kReZlBXPEsVnzS27Qk6C6SjY6qG4C3rvOud3oDT6drRSYe8Ye8wJVOFO8pVXbOEXiDNHYzrXURkVt7VyCDhOJgX97wulaQOHw5GmAMASgt0oiGLbgW4OULS7rQ6QODuJVOE%2BRXJczbtUadrh4Q6bf00nXe7IIN0fOApCbeR%2BfDlDhbVVYtrWGRDEMW7YJUguzkl7Wl2c34qQY1ecIZYF32RI86g%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=b125fa4c08d5f37c3738d95199dd0db76049724dfe6ee3268ef4f2162a762ce9 (https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/UOkHXvV7LRCAMYnSvSjIhgMClejSB8276_eVQSyikow/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3GI4BY3M6%2F20210419%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20210419T101917Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEAoaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJHMEUCIQDx2Px51fRhfCjVsIZ%2Fs51vp%2BN%2B8EGWqysnZiw3HCdrTgIgWbgHaRGoEhViJVBu%2BcOG5%2FyKV%2FRF915hfonKwLJFyWMqtAMIcxADGgw0NDkyMjkwMzI4MjIiDJZFjttfPx2N97ePQCqRAywf9De6kg7OM1vX8SLjTwDr3BP%2BvRoWUsAWtcuPJ8li5VbfqifKZ2ntG4mFvhQp1jwdPC%2F64TSE5ljCLkuHBuZQuwaqWbjstcH%2FOGYtMOuaY96vx%2BaCBo%2Fsyry9kzzOxAtnU0gSbFmBYO%2F3q3AuxzW72S3pyjbuWwjB%2FyMxvZQchv7w9WbhcBqdmsOXPF2%2B8OjhU%2BNrZ7Osc9ckt1UFV%2BboVuHmc41ZIX5tLVkkVrPW89UBML%2FGECN3qy1ORUT70QjrH38Lov7NZycWLTjCTaRqUXUgjpnNQF5wFRTyQFIF%2FAgi%2FypXno2%2BPra6tPdIBCYIEo4txH4bg1w2bBdQ9HRCk7TxX2FxqwhEAKxgT%2FQy6KZK6J%2Fr%2Bu6uOtdKTXB2GKMcks5YaXD3kExhixrFL6OA3CuN6ruzh98CU%2F3b6AEty0TvSkbYlYvkunWt7B45uLfzzSQMsMiVRECdgWX2XtzcdiEZqdEYFuZpcrRI%2BXpn65jHiviFNR3dBRxo1%2F2Xgsm5t3nDQeSpWrvE5Oig5cPFMN2Z9YMGOusBtj%2Fefno9rS6XJGtEzhL86Kytwy89vRk09BbNRfo3D4sXO1fHMEYmJBVdLEP8kNR6%2BOMW52U82PcP98qJ8jl%2Ft7kW%2B5e4iS9kReZlBXPEsVnzS27Qk6C6SjY6qG4C3rvOud3oDT6drRSYe8Ye8wJVOFO8pVXbOEXiDNHYzrXURkVt7VyCDhOJgX97wulaQOHw5GmAMASgt0oiGLbgW4OULS7rQ6QODuJVOE%2BRXJczbtUadrh4Q6bf00nXe7IIN0fOApCbeR%2BfDlDhbVVYtrWGRDEMW7YJUguzkl7Wl2c34qQY1ecIZYF32RI86g%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=b125fa4c08d5f37c3738d95199dd0db76049724dfe6ee3268ef4f2162a762ce9)

I haven't mixed anything up. I'm quoting a tweet. I should have said Operating Loss however, so I will edit the post.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on April 19, 2021, 11:59:21 AM
I haven't mixed anything up. I'm quoting a tweet. I should have said Operating Loss however, so I will edit the post.

Your source was wrong then, the operating loss was £23.4m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 19, 2021, 12:06:30 PM
Your source was wrong then, the operating loss was £23.4m.

They weren't. I'm not sure you understand what operating loss means (ie. excluding player sales and interest).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 19, 2021, 12:19:39 PM
The operating loss was £23.4 million.

In addition there is an outstanding debt to the owner of £23.7 million (owed to group undertakings).

It's likely to be worse this year as there was no gate revenue & the board have flagged up that broadcasters will demand a refund for games not broadcast.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 19, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
The operating loss was £23.4 million.

In addition there is an outstanding debt to the owner of £23.7 million (owed to group undertakings).

It's likely to be worse this year as there was no gate revenue & the board have flagged up that broadcasters will demand a refund for games not broadcast.

Operating loss was £53 million. This is offset by £29 million in player sales. Hence the £23 million loss. Sorry lads I'll take Swiss Ramble over you two  ;D

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on April 19, 2021, 12:42:48 PM
I'd be looking to belt tighten this summer following developments over the weekend. I'm not sure how much we will realistically get for players now but we need to be shifting our debt as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on April 19, 2021, 12:50:04 PM
Or we could review the accounts on Companies House.

Page 7

Operating Loss/Profit before player trading

(£27.2m)

Loss/profit before taxation

(£23.8m)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on April 19, 2021, 12:56:19 PM
There's also a breakdown on page 14 onwards, but I'm no accountant
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 19, 2021, 01:10:55 PM
There's also a breakdown on page 14 onwards, but I'm no accountant

Page 12. 3rd column. Turnover - operating expenses = operating loss. 53 million - 106 million = -53 million

Just trust in Swiss Ramble. He's never wrong  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on April 19, 2021, 01:46:53 PM
Botton line, literally, is we lost £23.8m. So within an expected range for our promotion season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 19, 2021, 02:44:06 PM
Operating loss was £53 million. This is offset by £29 million in player sales. Hence the £23 million loss. Sorry lads I'll take Swiss Ramble over you two  ;D

Operating profit or loss does not include player sales.

Profit or loss on player sales are calculated separately

This is taken from the club's accounts:


                                          (000)

                         Turnover = £53,745
         Operating expenses = £80,766

                 Operating loss = £27,021




Player Trading:

 Profit on disposal             = £29,426
 of player registrations

 Player amortisation          = £26,140

 Profit on player trading     = £3,276


Declared loss before Tax    = £3,276 - £27,021

                                        = £23,745


All in the company accounts





Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 19, 2021, 03:02:40 PM
Operating profit or loss does not include player sales.

Profit or loss on player sales are calculated separately

This is taken from the club's accounts:


                                          (000)

                         Turnover = £53,745
         Operating expenses = £80,766

                 Operating loss = £27,021




Player Trading:

 Profit on disposal             = £29,426
 of player registrations

 Player amortisation          = £26,140

 Profit on player trading     = £3,276


Declared loss before Tax    = £3,276 - £27,021

                                        = £23,745


All in the company accounts

Just nip across one column to the right John...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 19, 2021, 03:10:40 PM
Just nip across one column to the right John...

Think I know how company accounts work, I had them thrust under my nose every month for about 25 years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 19, 2021, 03:17:18 PM
Think I know how company accounts work, I had them thrust under my nose every month for about 25 years.

Not disputing it. I'm just stating where the number I've quoted has come from. That includes player amortisation but doesn't include player trading for the purpose of this exercise.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on April 19, 2021, 03:21:53 PM
Not disputing it. I'm just stating where the number I've quoted has come from. That includes player amortisation but doesn't include player trading for the purpose of this exercise.

Which to me seems daft. Surely you either include/exclude both, not one or the other? Otherwise I could say we made a profit of £3 million, by including profits from sales but not factoring amortisation etc.

Edit: not having a go at you, more a general comment on picking the 53m number. It catches the eye, but is misleading
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 19, 2021, 03:38:58 PM
Which to me seems daft. Surely you either include/exclude both, not one or the other? Otherwise I could say we made a profit of £3 million, by including profits from sales but not factoring amortisation etc.

Edit: not having a go at you, more a general comment on picking the 53m number. It catches the eye, but is misleading

Presumably because operational expenses include everything except player trading and interest for the purposes of FC accounting?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 19, 2021, 04:32:44 PM
I have quite literally little to no idea what any of this means. Are we in the chunky stuff or not? If yes how deep is it and will we be needing a snorkel and goggles, oxygen tanks or a submarine? Cheers  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 19, 2021, 04:58:22 PM
Which to me seems daft. Surely you either include/exclude both, not one or the other? Otherwise I could say we made a profit of £3 million, by including profits from sales but not factoring amortisation etc.

Edit: not having a go at you, more a general comment on picking the 53m number. It catches the eye, but is misleading

Operating profit comes from the profit & loss account, which is the sum of income minus the sum of expenditure


For accounting purposes players are intangible assets.

Tangible assets are things like plant, machinery, buildings, inventory, debtors etc.

So a FC's asset value is measured by the sum of it's assets.

Tangible assets normally depreciate in value & are written down over a period of time.

Players, on the other hand can appreciate in value, so profits from successful player trading can provide significant additional income (added into the P &L account).

The way Swiss Ramble shows this on his spreadsheets is to subtract the cost of player writedowns (amortisation etc) from the profit/loss sum, & then add the income from player sales back in. (suspect it's to simplify his model, he does a figure for every club)

The more conventional method is to calculate profit/loss from player trading & then add that result to the P & L account calculation.

As I demonstrated above WBA made an operational loss (income less cost of sales & administration) of £27 million.
Offset against that was a profit on player trading of £3.3 million

So a net loss of £23.7 million.


As Swiss Ramble pointed out, we sold some comparatively high value players last year (J Rod, Craig Dawson & Salomon Rondon). We're not expected to get anywhere near that income this year & we've paid out around £46 million.

Even with parachute payments, it's difficult to see how were going to generate enough cash to make major changes to the squad without some inward investment



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 19, 2021, 05:10:18 PM
I have quite literally little to no idea what any of this means. Are we in the chunky stuff or not? If yes how deep is it and will we be needing a snorkel and goggles, oxygen tanks or a submarine? Cheers  ;D .

Personally, I think we need to get some cash from somewhere.

According to local press, Luke Dowling has said that there will be funds to change the squad next season, just have to wait and see
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 19, 2021, 05:19:47 PM
Personally, I think we need to get some cash from somewhere.

According to local press, Luke Dowling has said that there will be funds to change the squad next season, just have to wait and see

Cheers. So while promotion was a financial godsend in the short to medium term (parachute payments) we're stuffed if we don't get promoted ASAP should we drop.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on April 19, 2021, 05:57:54 PM
I feel like I’ve just sat through a 2 hour accountancy lecture. Anyone fancy a beer? My shout!🤪
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 19, 2021, 08:03:43 PM
I feel like I’ve just sat through a 2 hour accountancy lecture. Anyone fancy a beer? My shout!🤪

Waaaaay ahead of ya  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on April 19, 2021, 08:16:15 PM
I have quite literally little to no idea what any of this means. Are we in the chunky stuff or not? If yes how deep is it and will we be needing a snorkel and goggles, oxygen tanks or a submarine? Cheers  ;D .
Having been to Shenzhen numerous times I can say with authority Guochan Lai is a bigger ****hole than you or WBA Dan !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 20, 2021, 11:12:35 AM
Operating profit comes from the profit & loss account, which is the sum of income minus the sum of expenditure


For accounting purposes players are intangible assets.

Tangible assets are things like plant, machinery, buildings, inventory, debtors etc.

So a FC's asset value is measured by the sum of it's assets.

Tangible assets normally depreciate in value & are written down over a period of time.

Players, on the other hand can appreciate in value, so profits from successful player trading can provide significant additional income (added into the P &L account).

The way Swiss Ramble shows this on his spreadsheets is to subtract the cost of player writedowns (amortisation etc) from the profit/loss sum, & then add the income from player sales back in. (suspect it's to simplify his model, he does a figure for every club)

The more conventional method is to calculate profit/loss from player trading & then add that result to the P & L account calculation.

As I demonstrated above WBA made an operational loss (income less cost of sales & administration) of £27 million.
Offset against that was a profit on player trading of £3.3 million

So a net loss of £23.7 million.


As Swiss Ramble pointed out, we sold some comparatively high value players last year (J Rod, Craig Dawson & Salomon Rondon). We're not expected to get anywhere near that income this year & we've paid out around £46 million.

Even with parachute payments, it's difficult to see how were going to generate enough cash to make major changes to the squad without some inward investment
we go down assets will be sold ie Sam Pereira and Bartley £50 million plus for those not that I want them sold.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 20, 2021, 11:23:48 AM
I had a look at the accounts again last night in a bit more detail.

Couple of things of interest:

We wrote off some £6 million in the value of player registrations. I image that was almost all the book value of Oliver Burke.

If any transactions take place immediately after year end (so after 31/07/20) that will have an impact on current seasons finances, it's normally disclosed towards the end of the directors' report.

We spent around £33 million on player registrations & recovered around £3 million on player sales. It was confirmed that the MP deal fell into 2019/20 financial year.

So as things stand, in the current financial year, we have expenditure of £30 million on player registrations (almost all of that on Grant & Diangana).
Add to that a wage bill of around £60 million, there's not a lot left from the EPL money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 20, 2021, 11:26:46 AM
we go down assets will be sold ie Sam Pereira and Bartley £50 million plus for those not that I want them sold.

Not sure how we keep Sam Allardyce if that's the case.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 20, 2021, 11:45:12 AM
we go down assets will be sold ie Sam Pereira and Bartley £50 million plus for those not that I want them sold.

Seriously doubt we'd be looking at £50mill for those three in a post Covid pre ESL world if we go down. Two of them only have twelve months on their contracts and to the best of my knowledge Pereira still hasn't signed the improved deal that would have pushed his wages up and increased his value.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on April 21, 2021, 12:56:46 AM
Seriously doubt we'd be looking at £50mill for those three in a post Covid pre ESL world if we go down. Two of them only have twelve months on their contracts and to the best of my knowledge Pereira still hasn't signed the improved deal that would have pushed his wages up and increased his value.

Good points.
Also gibbs 30k a week saved championship
Austin 30-35k a week also
Grosicki 25k also probably going.

Livermore entering last year of contract along with johnstone so we may field offers for these... that's without even having to accept offer for periera... think we will be ok
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on April 21, 2021, 10:42:25 AM
Good points.
Also gibbs 30k a week saved championship
Austin 30-35k a week also
Grosicki 25k also probably going.

Livermore entering last year of contract along with johnstone so we may field offers for these... that's without even having to accept offer for periera... think we will be ok

If you think someone is going to come and take Livermore off us, you're going to be disappointed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 21, 2021, 10:51:50 AM
Seriously doubt we'd be looking at £50mill for those three in a post Covid pre ESL world if we go down. Two of them only have twelve months on their contracts and to the best of my knowledge Pereira still hasn't signed the improved deal that would have pushed his wages up and increased his value.
football is in its own bubble, teams desperate to improve their first team usually pay top dollar. Look at our transfer history for examples, Johnstone is around the English National team and has been praised for his performances by national media and pundits this season. He will probably be sold for just less than £20 million, read article that club value him at £17 million. Bartley has also improved as season has gone on and suitors have been reported to be sniffing around, club could possibly get £10 million for him. Now for our grown jewel Pereira, how rare is it for a club like ours to have a talent like this on the books. A player that is a  game changer when played as number 10 floating around that area. Albion can realistically name their price with the current contract he's signed, put a figure of £30million for him but it could be double that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on April 21, 2021, 10:56:48 AM
Johnstone is in his last year of contract, so any profit we make on what we paid for him is a good return.

Not sure how you think Bartley in his final year of contract is worth £10m.

And again, if Pereira doesn't sign an improved contract then I don't think we'll see more than £15m for him
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 21, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Every time I see a new post in this thread I open it in the vain hope that he has 'done one'........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 21, 2021, 11:16:13 AM
football is in its own bubble, teams desperate to improve their first team usually pay top dollar. Look at our transfer history for examples, Johnstone is around the English National team and has been praised for his performances by national media and pundits this season. He will probably be sold for just less than £20 million, read article that club value him at £17 million. Bartley has also improved as season has gone on and suitors have been reported to be sniffing around, club could possibly get £10 million for him. Now for our grown jewel Pereira, how rare is it for a club like ours to have a talent like this on the books. A player that is a  game changer when played as number 10 floating around that area. Albion can realistically name their price with the current contract he's signed, put a figure of £30million for him but it could be double that.

Some seriously wet finger waving in the air speculative valuations there Paulo. Kudos, it's not every day you see Kyle Bartley linked with a £10,000,000 move to Pixyville Ramblers  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 21, 2021, 11:18:01 AM
Every time I see a new post in this thread I open it in the vain hope that he has 'done one'........

Gotcha. Sorry to disappoint you.......  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 21, 2021, 11:33:06 AM
Some seriously wet finger waving in the air speculative valuations there Paulo. Kudos, it's not every day you see Kyle Bartley linked with a £10,000,000 move to Pixyville Ramblers  ;D  ;) .
got to admit he's one of our better performers this season and with protection from Okay looks like the defender we saw at Leeds.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 21, 2021, 11:46:24 AM
got to admit he's one of our better performers this season and with protection from Okay looks like the defender we saw at Leeds.

He has been much improved but i think 10m is pushing it a bit mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 22, 2021, 10:35:02 PM
Tell the bloke in China to have a word with Leicester owner's, now that's the way to run a football club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 22, 2021, 10:41:46 PM
Who?
A none existent name.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on April 23, 2021, 12:06:09 PM
1 x runners up promotion ( just )
1 x fell at play off semi hurdle
2 x relegation ( almost )
Plenty of fees / wages on players we'll never see again.
Not very impressive is it ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBA.R.K on April 23, 2021, 12:15:49 PM
I'd be surprised to see him involved with a football club again after us, think he has learned his lesson.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 23, 2021, 12:18:24 PM
I'd be surprised to see him involved with a football club again after us, think he has learned his lesson.

and hopefully so have we.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on April 23, 2021, 12:19:34 PM
A baffling decision from his point of view. Clearly he knew nothing about football, but there was not much money to be made buying a premier league club who had been doing near enough as well as they're realistically going to do without significant investment. We were always going to be in danger of relegation. The time to have bought us would have been after relegation, not when he did for an extortionate price.

Hopefully we can get out of this situation without too much damage, its always going to be potentially concerns to get new owners but you get the distinct feeling with whats happening in China's with regards to foreign ownerships, Lai's disinterest, and the lack of any direction the situation could spiral out of control quickly.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 23, 2021, 12:27:26 PM
Jeremy Roland Peace saw Mr. Lai and Co. coming a mile off. I bet they wish they'd had their eyes open too now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 23, 2021, 12:40:18 PM
Lai and his investors were dumped in the brown stuff from a great height by the CPC shortly after completing the purchase.

What should have brought him vast wealth and reputation in his homeland is now an albatross around his and Albion's neck. Figuratively speaking  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on April 23, 2021, 01:33:24 PM
If it wasn't our club and us that's going to suffer it would be laughable the amount Lai and co paid for this club .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 23, 2021, 07:47:41 PM
What's £200 million among friends Ebenezer told Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 09, 2021, 09:54:41 PM
If owner is still here next season id anticipate that he will want to keep on books majority or all of Pereira and Johnstone transfer fee. So if Dowling is looking for summer spending spree think he's going to be disappointed.
Club might look a good prospect with £40 or £50 million in bank, might get somewhere near his valuation of club Luke is going to be under pressure to succeed with little or no fund's.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 09, 2021, 10:25:34 PM
A traitor with Dowling, to the Albion supporters.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 10, 2021, 10:04:33 PM
I fail to see how he is not here next season, his business interests are not going to be able to tolerate a £100m loss off the balance sheet, are they?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 10, 2021, 10:13:10 PM
Re finances, we are okay next season. On relegation the wage bill gets halved again so that helps to offset the loss of tv revenue. But obviously important we bounce back ASAP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBA on May 13, 2021, 01:39:17 AM
It's really difficult to know the truth regarding Mr Lai - is he the actual owner or just a front man as the original Yunyi video seemed to infer?  I think - just a personal view - it's the latter.  There may also have been some govt finance involved in terms of the academy model. 

I think the acquisition was credible and honorable but a combination of a falling out of love with the game in china, tensions with the west, chinese govt restrictions, Pulis losing the plot...Pardew never having it...shocking decisions by Williams and co...some misfortune (play-offs v the seals) covid....and a consequential lack of funding for 2020/21 ( and not strengthening key areas) all contributed to where we are.

But fear not, we will be promoted next season and have another crack at staying up.  Keep the faith! 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 13, 2021, 06:54:53 AM
The "Nobody" man.
What has he done for us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2021, 08:23:49 AM
If anyone is in doubt as to where we're heading, these are QPR results, published by swiss ramble today.


read more here  https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1396718646072860672 (https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1396718646072860672)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 24, 2021, 08:43:02 AM
If anyone is in doubt as to where we're heading, these are QPR results, published by swiss ramble today.


read more here  https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1396718646072860672 (https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1396718646072860672)

Sadly John I am in no doubt as to where we are heading.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 24, 2021, 08:44:06 AM
He is a "nowhere man" with no ideas.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on May 24, 2021, 09:08:03 AM
Championship football club finances look horrific!  It is not sustainable and i know league one and two clubs got very close to wage caps recently, but surely even the championship will end up with one at some point.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 24, 2021, 09:24:41 AM
He is a "nowhere man" with no ideas.

He's a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

Lennon/McCartney

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 24, 2021, 09:28:24 AM
The silence from this clown is deafening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 24, 2021, 09:36:05 AM
Guochuan  was always going to be a silent partner except for cross-branding with his Chinese businesses.  He is totally reliant on the UK management for footballing expertise.  It's generally a good thing when the chairman does not interfere in such matters. 

Ken just seems to be an interface.

Thus the club solely relies on its UK board and its director of football for playing the game of association football.  Guochuan, being a rookie owner,  possibly thinks that changing head coaches is the answer and keeps pressing Dowling for answers.  Surely at some point he will realise that LD is coming up with the wrong answers?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on May 24, 2021, 10:11:10 AM
The silence from this clown is deafening.

Why would he comment? He made his intentions clear from day one that it was business as usual and he would continue to be based in China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on May 24, 2021, 10:33:00 AM
Has he gone yet?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2021, 11:16:09 AM
Guochuan  was always going to be a silent partner except for cross-branding with his Chinese businesses.  He is totally reliant on the UK management for footballing expertise.  It's generally a good thing when the chairman does not interfere in such matters. 

Ken just seems to be an interface.

Thus the club solely relies on its UK board and its director of football for playing the game of association football.  Guochuan, being a rookie owner,  possibly thinks that changing head coaches is the answer and keeps pressing Dowling for answers.  Surely at some point he will realise that LD is coming up with the wrong answers?

Couple of points:

GL isn't the chairman, Li Piyue is

GL is a shareholder with a controlling interest. It's Li Piyue's job to look after the interests of the shareholders.

Ken is Chief Executive Officer, in old money, Managing Director.


The board of directors, listed at Companies House, consists of Li Piyue, Ken & Mark Miles.

Luke Dowling, although having the word director in his job title, is listed on the WBAFC website as part of the management team.

Returning to GL's input into the running of the club, I'd say he doesn't get involved much in the day to day, but has a massive say on strategies & policy.

The one question I'd want answered is:

Under Lai's ownership we've changed head coaches & different playing styles numerous times. In that time we've accumulated players who suit one playing style but not another, so are, in effect, redundant.

I'm not sure how much that policy has cost the club, but in the case of Olli Burke, we lost around £13 million.

So, although changing coaches mid term might give us a short term fix, apart from Pulis, the strategy doesn't appear to be sustainable.

Wouldn't it be a good idea, to formulate an identity for WBAFC, & then work on a series of strategies & tactics to achieve that?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on May 24, 2021, 01:10:19 PM
so much for the reports that he was selling and the price was just a matter of which division we are in, and the new owners wanted Allardyce. Looks like we are stuck with him for a while.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 24, 2021, 05:38:26 PM
According to Chris Lepkowski, Henry Pu is taking over as our finance director from Lee Cooper who is leaving. Henry Pu is currently the senior finance director at Fosun Group and head of finance at wolves! Interesting development.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 24, 2021, 05:52:31 PM
Why would he comment? He made his intentions clear from day one that it was business as usual and he would continue to be based in China.

Surely the owner of the club should at least release a simple statement regarding our direction of travel? Is it acceptable as a shareholder (I am not by the way, thanks Jez) to just ‘let him get on with it’ for 3 years with no communication?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 24, 2021, 05:58:07 PM
Surely the owner of the club should at least release a simple statement regarding our direction of travel?......

Probably realises telling us we've gone down would be stating the obvious  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 24, 2021, 06:04:38 PM
Probably realises telling us we've gone down would be stating the obvious  ;D .

I do feel making any kind of statement is a lose/lose for him (them).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dudleylad on May 24, 2021, 06:55:17 PM
According to Chris Lepkowski, Henry Pu is taking over as our finance director from Lee Cooper who is leaving. Henry Pu is currently the senior finance director at Fosun Group and head of finance at wolves! Interesting development.

If there is truth in this then you would think something happening in either a takeover or money being invested as hes been at Fosun since 2013.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2021, 06:56:53 PM
According to Chris Lepkowski, Henry Pu is taking over as our finance director from Lee Cooper who is leaving. Henry Pu is currently the senior finance director at Fosun Group and head of finance at wolves! Interesting development.

He did say that on the podcast didn't he?

If it's the same Henry Pu, could be interesting.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 24, 2021, 07:20:05 PM
Big backward step surely from Senior Finance director at a group of Fosun's size to whoever owns us, at face value a very strange development.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2021, 08:19:15 PM
Big backward step surely from Senior Finance director at a group of Fosun's size to whoever owns us, at face value a very strange development.

It's possible under company law to be a director of more than one company. In theory he could hold positions at Fosun, WWFC & WBAFC.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 24, 2021, 08:43:31 PM
It's possible under company law to be a director of more than one company. In theory he could hold positions at Fosun, WWFC & WBAFC.

Good point, I do hope and pray that the inbreds owners aren't looking to expand their football empire via us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on May 24, 2021, 09:05:04 PM
If it is this guy he’s pretty well qualified with a decent cv head of finance at fosun etc. Why would he come here seems like a strange move to me .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dudleylad on May 24, 2021, 09:20:52 PM
All might not be well at Fosun?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on May 24, 2021, 09:31:26 PM
Big backward step surely from Senior Finance director at a group of Fosun's size to whoever owns us, at face value a very strange development.

Nuno to Albion, If you can't beat em join em? ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 24, 2021, 09:34:44 PM
Nuno to Albion, If you can't beat em join em? ;D

It's a shoe-in. God's True Colours. Amen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2021, 09:42:55 PM
Good point, I do hope and pray that the inbreds owners aren't looking to expand their football empire via us.

If you turn that from a negative to a positive thought, they might be ploughing in some cash to make us more saleable.
Saves face for GL, gets us a new owner win-win all round.

Henry's in place to look after their interests.

Purely conjecture of course.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 25, 2021, 09:28:28 AM
If you turn that from a negative to a positive thought, they might be ploughing in some cash to make us more saleable.
Saves face for GL, gets us a new owner win-win all round.

Henry's in place to look after their interests.

Purely conjecture of course.

You seem to be suggesting that the dogheads are reciprocating for our buckets inside/outside the ground with a Financial investment by the huge conglomerate Fosun,  i know its puerile by me, but I enjoy the fact (and reminding them of it) we kept them in existence via a bucket collection far too much to have them reverse the situation.  Pheck em
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on May 25, 2021, 11:39:34 AM
I'm not happy with this Fosen/Wolves connection what's it all about?
The cynic in me is suspicious
You don't think that they are trying to merge us into WBAWW?
With a new stadium built in between with a 60k seater?
 Perish the thought!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBA.R.K on May 25, 2021, 11:58:23 AM
I mean is it at all possible that we may just offer him (Pu) more money?

(sounds ridiculous I know)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on May 25, 2021, 12:00:38 PM
It's possible under company law to be a director of more than one company. In theory he could hold positions at Fosun, WWFC & WBAFC.

I don’t think it would be allowed under the sports regulations though, whether it be UEFA, thr premier league or the FA, one of them would have something to say about it. Clear conflict of interest.

Scholes had to step down as a director of Salford to manage Oldham.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 25, 2021, 12:17:16 PM
I don’t think it would be allowed under the sports regulations though, whether it be UEFA, thr premier league or the FA, one of them would have something to say about it. Clear conflict of interest.

Scholes had to step down as a director of Salford to manage Oldham.

I just can't see someone who is the finance director of a multi-billion dollar organisation, leaving & coming to us.

It might be a different Henry Pu.

Or Lepkowski might have it completely wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on May 25, 2021, 12:23:15 PM
I just can't see someone who is the finance director of a multi-billion dollar organisation, leaving & coming to us.

It might be a different Henry Pu.

Or Lepkowski might have it completely wrong.
There's a lot of Pu in Wolverhampton.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 25, 2021, 12:31:14 PM
This is the linkedin account of Henry Pu from Fosun.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/henry-pu-75860676

No mention of WBA as of yet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 25, 2021, 12:33:22 PM
I'm not happy with this Fosen/Wolves connection what's it all about?
The cynic in me is suspicious
You don't think that they are trying to merge us into WBAWW?
With a new stadium built in between with a 60k seater?
 Perish the thought!

The more connections we can have with Fosun the better, we are the only club that has managed to find a Chinese owner with no money! Henry Pu will be leaving his role at wolves to take up a position on our board, not doubt about that IMV. Presuming of course that the news is correct.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on May 25, 2021, 01:27:13 PM
Pu, Ken, Lai,  there is a joke in there somewhere but its escaping me at the moment!  >:(

Puke n lai, no cant get there yet.  :-[
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 25, 2021, 02:42:16 PM
Lai is pronounced "Lay" I believe it's also not his family name - that's Guochuan (they do it differently in the far east)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 25, 2021, 06:50:01 PM
This is the linkedin account of Henry Pu from Fosun.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/henry-pu-75860676

No mention of WBA as of yet.

I've had another look, he is almost certainly not the head of finance for Fosun.
He's not even a fully qualified Chartered Accountant - nothing to see here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 25, 2021, 06:55:42 PM
I've had another look, he is almost certainly not the head of finance for Fosun.
He's not even a fully qualified Chartered Accountant - nothing to see here.

Is it a dodgy rip off account?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 25, 2021, 08:42:16 PM
Is it a dodgy rip off account?

Don't think so.

In his "strapline" he describes himself as "Senior Finance Director at Fosun Group & Head of Finance at Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club.

He is Head of Finance at Wolves, he's on their website, but he's a staff member.

I suspect "Senior Finance Director" is a job title at Fosun & at means I work for them.

I'm not convinced he carries enough influence at Fosun to have the impact on our future implied by Lepkowski on the podcast.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 25, 2021, 08:52:27 PM
Don't think so.

In his "strapline" he describes himself as "Senior Finance Director at Fosun Group & Head of Finance at Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club.

He is Head of Finance at Wolves, he's on their website, but he's a staff member.

I suspect "Senior Finance Director" is a job title at Fosun & at means I work for them.

I'm not convinced he carries enough influence at Fosun to have the impact on our future implied by Lepkowski on the podcast.


Thanks for replying John. I only asked so i can keep an eye out in the future in how to avoid con artists. Cheers!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 25, 2021, 10:26:41 PM
I'm not convinced he carries enough influence at Fosun to have the impact on our future implied by Lepkowski on the podcast.

All Lepkowski said was that he leaving wolves to join us and was comining in as our new finance director in place of Lee Cooper who was leaving. He didn't say or suggest there was anything more to it than that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 25, 2021, 10:58:42 PM
All Lepkowski said was that he leaving wolves to join us and was comining in as our new finance director in place of Lee Cooper who was leaving. He didn't say or suggest there was anything more to it than that.


Not sure that you saw it that way

Quote
According to Chris Lepkowski, Henry Pu is taking over as our finance director from Lee Cooper who is leaving. Henry Pu is currently the senior finance director at Fosun Group and head of finance at wolves! Interesting development.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieNick on May 25, 2021, 10:59:51 PM
According to Chris Lepkowski, Henry Pu is taking over as our finance director from Lee Cooper who is leaving. Henry Pu is currently the senior finance director at Fosun Group and head of finance at wolves! Interesting development.

Lee Cooper - never liked his jeans.

Sounds odd but I don't really care as long as we have more down to buy better players next season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on June 08, 2021, 10:27:07 PM
Please please just leave
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SC_Baggie on June 09, 2021, 06:32:21 AM
I know it’s popular to hate the owner these days at many clubs but I’m willing to possibly agree with this decision from Lai.

Think about it. He rarely ever gets involved in football matters and now he randomly blocks the appointment of Wilder? There has to be a reason. Maybe there was more to the friction with SHU ownership than was made public. I know I saw several Blades fans  saying it was a smart decision as Wilder burnt tons of bridges on there way out there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 09, 2021, 08:22:38 AM
It seems Lai is very much still on the scene then despite the apparent secret changes in ownership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 09, 2021, 08:51:47 AM
It seems Lai is very much still on the scene then despite the apparent secret changes in ownership.

Has anything ever been proven to state otherwise or was it merely a couple of individuals drumming up interest to promote their podcast?   ::)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 09, 2021, 09:32:12 AM
Has anything ever been proven to state otherwise or was it merely a couple of individuals drumming up interest to promote their podcast?   ::)

At least we now know he still seems to exist
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 09, 2021, 03:19:57 PM
At least we now know he still seems to exist

Also dispels that BS put out by Adrian Goldberg and Chris Lepkowski that he was no longer the owner - after those two couldn't understand company law.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on June 09, 2021, 03:22:59 PM
Also dispels that BS put out by Adrian Goldberg and Chris Lepkowski that he was no longer the owner - after those two couldn't understand company law.

Always respected Chris to be fair, he was a great reporter at the BM. Still very much knows a lot about the going's on behind the scenes at the Albion too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on June 09, 2021, 03:34:57 PM
I wonder if he now regrets spending all that money on scarves/beers/pies or whatever it was in the free give away!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 09, 2021, 04:18:06 PM
I wonder if he now regrets spending all that money on scarves/beers/pies or whatever it was in the free give away!


I dont think so. Thats just part of their culture. If we cast our minds back as soon as he was announced as new owner there was an article about him and what to possibly expect etc.  That the Chinese way would be to show his face, be all friendly, buy us a few things and then vanish which is exactly what happened.

However no one knew how useless he was going to be, himself included i'd bargain so he's gone into full hiding.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on June 09, 2021, 07:19:57 PM
From what I have heard and read, they had got to the salary discussion stage when the rug was pulled, I don't see how you could carry on after such a humiliating slap in the face.
Who knows how much involvement he has in the day. to day running of the club but someone or something as definitely rattled his cage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on June 09, 2021, 09:53:51 PM
I fear that we will start to see the asset stripping phase start within the next month. Could all the crown jewels be sold off this summer? Probably.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 09, 2021, 10:23:11 PM
I fear that we will start to see the asset stripping phase start within the next month. Could all the crown jewels be sold off this summer? Probably.

What do you mean by asset stripping?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 09, 2021, 10:29:26 PM
I fear that we will start to see the asset stripping phase start within the next month. Could all the crown jewels be sold off this summer? Probably.

Who are all of these Crown Jewels you speak of?!?!

Pereira and Johnstone most definitely but there really is nobody else.

There is no benefit to these owners of being in the second division. The only way they recoup their money is with a promotion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on June 09, 2021, 10:52:54 PM
I thought it had been established that Lai could not asset strip the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on June 09, 2021, 10:53:57 PM
I’m mystified by his reasons for spending £200 million on the club. He seems to have little or no interest in us. Does he seriously have that much money that he can afford to throw it around in such a way? Did he expect our value to increase so that he could cash in on his investment? Why is he so anonymous?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 09, 2021, 10:56:46 PM
I just think he thought we were solid and established which we were and we would never get relegated which we did in his first full season when he took his eye off the ball. I believe he thought he could sit back and not care and the club would run itself. When it came to take action instead of letting Pulis contract expire and break away he re-signed him as the easy option. FIrst and final nail in the coffin.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 09, 2021, 11:34:33 PM
I’m mystified by his reasons for spending £200 million on the club. He seems to have little or no interest in us. Does he seriously have that much money that he can afford to throw it around in such a way? Did he expect our value to increase so that he could cash in on his investment? Why is he so anonymous?

In China, the communist government (CCP) can take your money from you any time they want and/or make you disappear. So anyone with any wealth in China is desperate to transfer it overseas. That has become more difficult over time, but one of the ways back in the day was to buy a company / football club abroad etc. So he was probably just looking to safeguard his assets outside the reach of the CCP.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 10, 2021, 07:55:44 AM
If that's the case he should have been looking at something with the potential to expand and return yields. We can't even redevelop the Halfords (should we ever actually wish to) because of a stubborn Dingle (allegedly) who rents Tonka Toys to Bob the Builder types. Serious lack of due diligence.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 10, 2021, 09:12:41 AM
I was told the Dingle land owner is willing to sell but wants silly money Dan. Inbred swine
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on June 10, 2021, 10:53:08 AM
I’m mystified by his reasons for spending £200 million on the club. He seems to have little or no interest in us. Does he seriously have that much money that he can afford to throw it around in such a way? Did he expect our value to increase so that he could cash in on his investment? Why is he so anonymous?

ownership of assets in other currencies e.g. GBP and the ability to trade across currencies (player transfers) might have been a factor. Moving money around the World under the banner of football transfers is important to some people e.g. Abramovich , maybe Lai and his backers needed the same vehicle.

If he purchased us for investment reasons, then he was mad or stupid or both
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 10, 2021, 12:55:29 PM
I wonder if he's lost his noodles over this new manager malarkey yet.........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 12, 2021, 10:28:37 AM
This man is going to destroy our club...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on June 12, 2021, 11:20:31 AM
I want him to sell up because he won't invest in our club. The only he has going for him at present is he hasn't asset stripped the club and kept the money for himself, yet !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on June 12, 2021, 11:22:58 AM
JP did his due diligence on Lai before selling the club to him. He checked his financial status, checked that the money had gone into his bank account and then deserted these shores without any further care about Albion. With Lai controlling the purse strings we haven’t a hope in hell of moving forward
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 12, 2021, 12:02:17 PM
I can in all seriousness only see this going one way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 12, 2021, 12:19:47 PM
He has been here 5 years August. He hasn’t destroyed us yet and doubt he will. Let’s get a bit of perspective here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on June 12, 2021, 12:24:15 PM
He has been here 5 years August. He hasn’t destroyed us yet and doubt he will. Let’s get a bit of perspective here.

I didnt want Peace to go, I always felt he was a steady hand. However even if he had stayed we could have had a very similar 5 year period. It could easily be far worse than it is too.

Pretty much everytime people call for Lai out, when you dig in to why it’s because they want a benefactor, which hasn’t materialised in nearly 150 years so far, so I’m not sure why people think Lai is locking one out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 12, 2021, 12:30:31 PM
I didnt want Peace to go, I always felt he was a steady hand. However even if he had stayed we could have had a very similar 5 year period. It could easily be far worse than it is too.

Pretty much everytime people call for Lai out, when you dig in to why it’s because they want a benefactor, which hasn’t materialised in nearly 150 years so far, so I’m not sure why people think Lai is locking one out.

Absolutely, I was in the better the devil you know camp and would still rather have Peace here. They both want to run a self sufficient club which they do/did.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 12, 2021, 12:32:40 PM
JP did his due diligence on Lai before selling the club to him. He checked his financial status, checked that the money had gone into his bank account and then deserted these shores without any further care about Albion. With Lai controlling the purse strings we haven’t a hope in hell of moving forward
hope Ebenezer chokes on his prawn sandwich if I'm honest
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 12, 2021, 12:45:58 PM
He has been here 5 years August. He hasn’t destroyed us yet and doubt he will. Let’s get a bit of perspective here.

In fairness, it took Carson Yeung a few years to be found out at Birmingham. He had a 30% steak for years, then took control in 2009. They didn't get relegated until 2011 and nearly got promoted under Hughton in 2012. It was in his fourth season when things became very apparent.

Ok, we've been under Lai for 5 years which is a little longer, but it still doesn't mean we couldn't go down a similar route at some point (I imagine failure to get promoted would be telling)

Personally, I think Lai isn't a complete moron and wants to protect his investment as much as possible. This means feeding the club enough crumbs to make a good go at getting promoted ASAP, rather than starving the club completely which doesn't help anyone. If you will, he's like a worse version than Mike Ashley, in that he has a business model to try and do things on the cheap rather than burn his fingers. I do worry though if we fail to get promoted 2/3 years on the bounce and what would happen then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 12, 2021, 01:05:46 PM
Absolutely, I was in the better the devil you know camp and would still rather have Peace here. They both want to run a self sufficient club which they do/did.

It was Peace choosing to sell the club to Lai that got us into this position, he didn't give a monkeys who took over as long as he got as much money out of his shares as possible.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 12, 2021, 01:10:34 PM
It was Peace choosing to sell the club to Lai that got us into this position, he didn't give a monkeys who took over as long as he got as much money out of his shares as possible.

But why should he really?

If you sold your house would you do the due diligence on the purchaser beforehand to make sure they’re going to water the plants and maintain the boiler? No, you’ll take the cash and do one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on June 12, 2021, 01:11:53 PM
It was Peace choosing to sell the club to Lai that got us into this position, he didn't give a monkeys who took over as long as he got as much money out of his shares as possible.

The same as what 99.9999% of people would have done
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on June 12, 2021, 01:14:42 PM
Also... what is the position we are in? As far as I can tell it’s Pretty much the same one we were in for 10 years previously.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 12, 2021, 01:19:11 PM
But why should he really?

If you sold your house would you do the due diligence on the purchaser beforehand to make sure they’re going to water the plants and maintain the boiler? No, you’ll take the cash and do one.
As owner & chairman, don't you feel that he had some level of obligation to do his best for the future wellbeing of the club, rather than simply seeking to maximise his personal return? A football club, with a fanbase to consider, is hardly comparable to a house.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 12, 2021, 01:22:48 PM
As owner & chairman, don't you feel that he had some level of obligation to do his best for the future wellbeing of the club, rather than simply seeking to maximise his personal return? A football club, with a fanbase to consider, is hardly comparable to a house.

What more could he have done? From what I can see/remember there were no job losses or redundancies as a result of the takeover. Peace also had assurances that it would be business as usual. Lai has kept his promises from what I can see.

Ultimately fans have an issue because Lai hasn’t thrown at blank cheque book at us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 12, 2021, 01:56:40 PM
Ultimately fans have an issue because Lai hasn’t thrown at blank cheque book at us.
That might be true for some fans, but I believe most have an issue with his disinterest and incompetence. When he took over the club, his stated aim was to stay in the Premier League that season and then start to push towards establishing the club in the top half. Regardless of how realistic and/or honest people regard him as being with that aim, he has 100% failed to achieve it and continues to damage the club's best interests by vetoing paying compensation for new managers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on June 12, 2021, 02:10:33 PM
I think the least he could have done was to have shown a presence. At the start he showed an interest with his freebie gimmick, but has disappeared completely off the radar. No messages, no comments, no nothing, online, in the press, on the club website nada nothing zilch. I think this lack of apparent  interest is the most galling. To be fair from the beginning we knew there wouldn't be massive investment so guess this isn't the issue! The invisible man is more visible!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 12, 2021, 09:38:05 PM
I think the least he could have done was to have shown a presence. At the start he showed an interest with his freebie gimmick, but has disappeared completely off the radar. No messages, no comments, no nothing, online, in the press, on the club website nada nothing zilch. I think this lack of apparent  interest is the most galling. To be fair from the beginning we knew there wouldn't be massive investment so guess this isn't the issue! The invisible man is more visible!

This is my biggest issue with the man. I never expected him to throw money at us, but his grasp of what is required to make the club work as a business that he can get his investment back on is hugely lacking.

I've said this over and over again; it just comes across as poor business acumen. If you are going to invest in something to the tune that he did, surely you do your homework first?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieNick on June 13, 2021, 11:32:35 PM
As owner & chairman, don't you feel that he had some level of obligation to do his best for the future wellbeing of the club, rather than simply seeking to maximise his personal return? A football club, with a fanbase to consider, is hardly comparable to a house.

The tightest Englishman on the planet sold the club at a vastly unrealistic cost to the tightest Chinese on the planet.

It was never going to end well...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on June 13, 2021, 11:56:48 PM
As owner & chairman, don't you feel that he had some level of obligation to do his best for the future wellbeing of the club, rather than simply seeking to maximise his personal return? A football club, with a fanbase to consider, is hardly comparable to a house.

This has been spoken about amongst Albion fans many times before and will continue to do so.

The way I look at it is you don’t own a football club. You own the ground, the facilities, the physical assets (so to speak) but the football club itself belongs to the fans. The fans are the beating heart and soul of a football club. Without the fans, what have the owner(s) got exactly. Just bricks and mortar.

Try selling a football club with absolutely fans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 14, 2021, 08:01:12 AM
With all the noise out there at the minute regarding new coach saw article that basically read that owner is not happy with selection process and is going to take a more hands on approach. Article goes on to say that Lai wants manager with Championship experience and someone who has gained promotion in the past.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on June 14, 2021, 09:19:10 AM
With all the noise out there at the minute regarding new coach saw article that basically read that owner is not happy with selection process and is going to take a more hands on approach. Article goes on to say that Lai wants manager with Championship experience and someone who has gained promotion in the past.

And he vetoed the man who has done that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on June 14, 2021, 07:30:17 PM
I've come to the conclusion Lai is a Dingle in disguise
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on June 14, 2021, 07:36:57 PM
I've come to the conclusion Lai is a Dingle in disguise
Maybe he is a secret agent in the pocket of Fosun!?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 14, 2021, 07:53:25 PM
I've come to the conclusion Lai is a Dingle in disguise

I’ve come to the conclusion he’s something but dingle would not be the word I’d use..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on June 14, 2021, 08:17:45 PM
Yes I have too Liam. but I don't want to be banned so I'll keep it to myself, just to say I'm not his biggest fan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on June 15, 2021, 11:59:25 PM
As many have commented this is just a mess. This was not created in the last month but over the last two/three years. we have an owner that thought he was buying a self driving club and he is not knowledgeable enough to drive himself. An operation runs on the decision makers shoulders and poor recruitment has caught up with us. I see many companies failing from the same issue, if you are bad at recruiting the management team it normally ends badly.

For those wishing for a return of JP, don't forget he got us here. His greed turned the club into his retirement fund and he sold to the highest bidder (forget the BS he pushed about carefully selecting the new owner), anyone trying to rewrite history now is beyond hope.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on June 16, 2021, 08:17:40 AM
I'm still confused about the ownership of the club.  Guochuan Lai seems to be a member of a consortium of investors who was charged by his peers with acquiring an EPL football club.  I'm not sure he has total control over the direction of the club. 
I'm pretty sure that he would not countenance the appointment of a manager with the reputation of bad-mouthing his boss when he can't get what he wants.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 16, 2021, 09:49:15 AM
I'm still confused about the ownership of the club.  Guochuan Lai seems to be a member of a consortium of investors who was charged by his peers with acquiring an EPL football club.  I'm not sure he has total control over the direction of the club. 
I'm pretty sure that he would not countenance the appointment of a manager with the reputation of bad-mouthing his boss when he can't get what he wants.

Lai has never owned 100% of the clubs shares he owns the 88% of the club through

 Yunyi Goukai Sports Investment (Shanghai) Ltd he owns 59% of it so has control of it and thereby the club. The other 41% is split between an investment fund Yunyi Investment (23%) and Palm (18%).

The overall cost of the original purchase was £188m (Lai £111, Yunyi £43m and Palm £34m). The current value is maybe as little as £50m.

The storm in tea cup last year was created by a change of ownership of Yunyi Investment which has no material difference in Lai's controlling interest.

Lai does have control of the club however there has always been significant minority investors. Put yourself in their position between them they are stuck for about £50m or (66% of their initial investment) do you not think they have an opinion about that situation? Do you think they aren't entitled to one? And in their shoes do you not think you might be offering to share that opinion with the largest investor?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 16, 2021, 09:59:08 AM
Lai does have control of the club however there has always been significant minority investors. Put yourself in their position between them they are stuck for about £50m or (66% of their initial investment) do you not think they have an opinion about that situation? Do you think they aren't entitled to one? And in their shoes do you not think you might be offering to share that opinion with the largest investor?
After all, Peace was always keen to know the thoughts of minority shareholders!  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 16, 2021, 10:04:43 AM
After all, Peace was always keen to know the thoughts of minority shareholders!  ;)

I don't think two of them had 41% of the equity between them slightly different dynamic going on there. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 18, 2021, 03:06:17 PM
Is Lai still sending us to League 1 then? There is a lot of positivity about Ismael.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 23, 2021, 08:58:06 AM
Is Lai still sending us to League 1 then? There is a lot of positivity about Ismael.

Still deathly silence on how Lai is destroying us. Stark difference to this time a fortnight ago.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on June 23, 2021, 12:12:12 PM
Hiring Ismael doesn’t all of a sudden make us a well run club BB74. Let’s see what structures we put in place to replace Dowling. Facts are, we have all acknowledged that so far we have looked very short term which is no good for the football club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: phbaggies on June 23, 2021, 12:18:03 PM
Still deathly silence on how Lai is destroying us. Stark difference to this time a fortnight ago.
Are you happy with Lai as an owner then?, please enlighten me to what he has bought to the table....other than a warm bottle of **** water, and some scarves??

Each to their own opinion, will just be an interesting read to see a defence for his ownership!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on June 23, 2021, 12:28:10 PM
I don’t think the appointment of a manager suddenly elevates Lai to mastermind. We have no idea what he is really like, just what we read in the press ( or lack of ). He bought a club for nearly 200 million that is probably now worth half of that, not very smart in my book.
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 23, 2021, 12:44:18 PM
Are you happy with Lai as an owner then?, please enlighten me to what he has bought to the table....other than a warm bottle of **** water, and some scarves??

Each to their own opinion, will just be an interesting read to see a defence for his ownership!

Lai has been a Ronseal owner. Does exactly what it says on the tin. He didn’t over commit, if anything he said it would very much be business as usual. I can’t see on what basis people get annoyed with him for sticking to his welcoming statement.

If he said Champions League within 3 years etc then i’ll be at the top of the Lai bashing que.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 23, 2021, 12:51:40 PM
Lai has been a Ronseal owner. Does exactly what it says on the tin. He didn’t over commit, if anything he said it would very much be business as usual. I can’t see on what basis people get annoyed with him for sticking to his welcoming statement.

If he said Champions League within 3 years etc then i’ll be at the top of the Lai bashing que.

It hasn't been business as usual though, he's taken a relatively stable Premier League club to the Championship. I agree with you to the extent it's unlikely to get any worse, all these shouts of League One and asset stripping which have no basis in reality. But he's hardly been a successful owner, quite the contrary in fact.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on June 23, 2021, 01:04:54 PM
It hasn't been business as usual though, he's taken a relatively stable Premier League club to the Championship. I agree with you to the extent it's unlikely to get any worse, all these shouts of League One and asset stripping which have no basis in reality. But he's hardly been a successful owner, quite the contrary in fact.

Outside the usual Big 8 suspects, there aren’t really any stable premier league clubs. Yes we might have longer stayers like 6-10 seasons but it’s a cycle and they all drop eventually. Bolton, Blackburn, Charlton, Sunderland, Stoke, Bournemouth etc next to cycle out within 2-3 seasons will be Burnely, BH Albion, Palace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 23, 2021, 01:31:08 PM
He's done what he said he was going to do in terms of investment and the club still remains under the same model as we did under Jeremy Peace - in that sense there have been no changes.

The difference being is that for a period of time - Peace (often incapable of making the right decision) surrounded himself with people who could make those decisions for him.

Lai has been the total opposite - every big decision this football club has had to make has been the wrong one -

for example (some hindsight is being used):

John Williams, the summer of 2018, sacking Pulis mid-season, appointing Pardew, not sacking Pardew quick enough, appointing Dowling, sacking Moore, appointing Shan, summer of 2020, sacking Bilic, appointing Allardyce

There are probably others I have missed, but those are a lot of fundamental calls to get wrong in nearly 3 years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieNick on June 24, 2021, 11:36:10 PM
He's done what he said he was going to do in terms of investment and the club still remains under the same model as we did under Jeremy Peace - in that sense there have been no changes.

The difference being is that for a period of time - Peace (often incapable of making the right decision) surrounded himself with people who could make those decisions for him.

Lai has been the total opposite - every big decision this football club has had to make has been the wrong one -

for example (some hindsight is being used):

John Williams, the summer of 2018, sacking Pulis mid-season, appointing Pardew, not sacking Pardew quick enough, appointing Dowling, sacking Moore, appointing Shan, summer of 2020, sacking Bilic, appointing Allardyce

There are probably others I have missed, but those are a lot of fundamental calls to get wrong in nearly 3 years.

Yes he is useless in both ownership and recruitment.

But until he sells we're stuck with him.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 24, 2021, 11:44:13 PM
He has failed to get a decent stable team around his asset
He has failed to lead in any way
He has failed at communication to his customer base

He has lost the club half it's value
He has failed to create the media interest he allegedly craves

On the plus side ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on June 25, 2021, 12:22:29 AM
With that record he could run a uk national utility
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on June 25, 2021, 08:35:05 AM
Or track and trace !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on July 21, 2021, 09:47:07 AM

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/39ef41a0-e987-11eb-baaa-861dba20d87a?shareToken=0709da3b2bd617463b1ebbc80e31506b

West Bromwich Albion’s independent shareholders will next week make formal demands for an independent investigation into a £3.7 million loan made to the former owner Jeremy Peace’s company.
Dozens of shareholders are expected to attend the meeting and present their demands to the chief executive, Xu Ke.
The loan was made by the club to WBA Holdings in September 2014 and was never repaid, nor was any of the agreed interest, which has now reached more than £1 million. Peace sold WBA Holdings to the Chinese businessman Guochuan Lai in 2016 and the liability for the debt passed to him.
Peace sold his 88 per cent stake in Albion for £175 million. He strongly denies the loan was to increase his shareholding and insists that he did not participate in the decision to make it.
He said in a statement: “Certain independent shareholders have been grumbling for years since I sold shares in 2016, when they know that they have no basis for complaint. I want to make it clear that money was not borrowed from the football club to buy shares.
“There was nothing untoward or improper in respect of any of my dealings with West Bromwich Albion. I welcome an investigation to put an end, once and for all, to the baseless comments of a small group of shareholders.
“The loan made to West Bromwich Albion Holdings by the football club was on arm’s length and commercially attractive terms at a time when cash deposits elsewhere were (and still are) earning a much lower rate of interest.”
There are about 400 independent shareholders and they will meet with the chief executive on July 29.
The shareholders will vote on two resolutions put forward by the group Shareholders 4 Albion (S4A). The first is that the club commissions an independent investigation into all circumstances surrounding the loan “with a view to establishing whether or not each director complied fully with their respective fiduciary obligations”. The second resolution is that the club takes “all lawful and expedient steps to obtain repayment in full with interest” of the loan.
Although a large turnout of the shareholders is expected, that Chinese owners control 88 per cent of the shares means that they will be able to block the resolutions being passed.
A WBA spokesman said: “The meeting is to discuss and vote on two resolutions put forward by S4A regarding the loan. The chief executive, Xu Ke, will attend the meeting at The Hawthorns.”
The loan was signed off in 2014 by the chief executive of the club at the time, Mark Jenkins, and Richard Garlick, then the director of football administration. Jenkins was unavailable to comment and Garlick declined to respond.
Last month The Times reported that a senior executive at West Brom had attempted to negotiate a £25 million transfer that would have broken Fifa regulations and avoided tax in China and possibly the UK. Luke Dowling, who left the club last month, has categorically denied any wrongdoing. Lai denies any involvement.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 21, 2021, 09:55:02 AM
someone at the Times smells a big pile of excrement and is going to keep poking around IMO.

Good on the S4A group if there are dodgy dealings in the past, I have no problem with them being exposed, as long as it is those who did the dealings and not the club that get hurt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 21, 2021, 09:56:59 AM
someone at the Times smells a big pile of excrement and is going to keep poking around IMO.

Good on the S4A group if there are dodgy dealings in the past, I have no problem with them being exposed, as long as it is those who did the dealings and not the club that get hurt.

It just stinks doesn't it......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 21, 2021, 11:29:31 AM
someone at the Times smells a big pile of excrement and is going to keep poking around IMO.

Good on the S4A group if there are dodgy dealings in the past, I have no problem with them being exposed, as long as it is those who did the dealings and not the club that get hurt.

For me S4A can do what they want, so long as they pay the costs involved.

It's going to be a very costly exercise if all that's revealed is a few T's weren't crossed.

There might be a moral issue here, but Peace was pretty street wise when it came to litigation, so I doubt if there's any legal issues.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 21, 2021, 11:38:46 AM
For me S4A can do what they want, so long as they pay the costs involved.

It's going to be a very costly exercise if all that's revealed is a few T's weren't crossed.

There might be a moral issue here, but Peace was pretty street wise when it came to litigation, so I doubt if there's any legal issues.

Its quite simple to me, someone borrowed the money [for whatever reason], and someone needs to pay it back with interest.

I hope S4A get a result and rattle a few cages, for me they should be supported. There have been plenty of posts on here moaning about the unpaid loan, S4A are doing something about it hopefully.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 21, 2021, 11:58:16 AM
Its quite simple to me, someone borrowed the money [for whatever reason], and someone needs to pay it back with interest.

I hope S4A get a result and rattle a few cages, for me they should be supported. There have been plenty of posts on here moaning about the unpaid loan, S4A are doing something about it hopefully.

As far as I know, there is no intention for it not to be paid back.

There's a statement on the accounts saying it can be called in by the club at any time
It's earning interest at 5% above BoE base rate at the moment. (It's difficult to get 1% on safe investments at present).
Over 6 years, it's increased in value by 25%: personally, I'd leave it where its is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 21, 2021, 12:12:59 PM
As far as I know, there is no intention for it not to be paid back.

There's a statement on the accounts saying it can be called in by the club at any time
It's earning interest at 5% above BoE base rate at the moment. (It's difficult to get 1% on safe investments at present).
Over 6 years, it's increased in value by 25%: personally, I'd leave it where its is.

I understand that, but given our current financial predicament I would have thought that £3.7m + interest would come in quite useful in the players market.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 21, 2021, 12:20:29 PM
I honestly don't know what S4A hope to achieve here.

The club has about £20m to £30m in owners debt on the books that is not bearing interest. The club is owed £5m which is accruing interest. So the club owes the ownership somewhere between £15m and £25m net and the balance does not attract interest. I have never seen anybody "Dunning" themselves it is first but of course the club isn't it is a minority of shareholders.

So the repayment of the loan is not beneficial to the club not when the balance of debt is heavily weighted in favour of the club.

If S4A have a complaint it is with Peace and whether or not he acted properly in respect of the loan and whether it was used to purchase shares and in doing so did Peace abuse his position as majority shareholder and Company Director? The outcome makes no material difference to the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 21, 2021, 01:03:41 PM
I honestly don't know what S4A hope to achieve here.

The club has about £20m to £30m in owners debt on the books that is not bearing interest. The club is owed £5m which is accruing interest. So the club owes the ownership somewhere between £15m and £25m net and the balance does not attract interest. I have never seen anybody "Dunning" themselves it is first but of course the club isn't it is a minority of shareholders.

So the repayment of the loan is not beneficial to the club not when the balance of debt is heavily weighted in favour of the club.

If S4A have a complaint it is with Peace and whether or not he acted properly in respect of the loan and whether it was used to purchase shares and in doing so did Peace abuse his position as majority shareholder and Company Director? The outcome makes no material difference to the club.

S4A have a serious issue with Peace for obvious reasons. I think that they are trying to examine the provenance and legality of his dealings on the whole, and whilst I understand what you are saying it would be nice to have the loan paid back and put to bed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 21, 2021, 01:29:58 PM
I honestly don't know what S4A hope to achieve here.

The club has about £20m to £30m in owners debt on the books that is not bearing interest. The club is owed £5m which is accruing interest. So the club owes the ownership somewhere between £15m and £25m net and the balance does not attract interest. I have never seen anybody "Dunning" themselves it is first but of course the club isn't it is a minority of shareholders.

So the repayment of the loan is not beneficial to the club not when the balance of debt is heavily weighted in favour of the club.

If S4A have a complaint it is with Peace and whether or not he acted properly in respect of the loan and whether it was used to purchase shares and in doing so did Peace abuse his position as majority shareholder and Company Director? The outcome makes no material difference to the club.

So, S4A are going after Peace for using WBAFC as a vehicle for "dodgy" dealing, and the club might get some collateral image damage at worst?  Correct?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on July 21, 2021, 01:33:53 PM
I don't see what they can achieve here except to annoy the Chinese who didn't set up the deal in the first place.  As said above we have loaned money at a very favourable rate and received an interest free loan.  This investigation would demand consultant-heavy money.  Who forks out for that?
From past history, I should imagine that Peace is watertight. It's a matter of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 21, 2021, 01:50:14 PM
Can someone help me out here in case I have got this wrong.

Peace borrowed circa £3.5m from the club [at favourable terms], and it is strongly suspected that he used the money to buy up the shares to achieve his majority shareholder position

Peace then sold the club to Mr Lai

Is there an assumption here that Peace passed the debt on to Mr Lai?

What am I missing here?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 21, 2021, 02:12:58 PM
I don’t know what they want to achieve either. I’ve looked in to the numbers of S4A before. Don’t quote me but  I think there is something like 417 members, most of whom have a single share. About 90% of the Shares in the group are held by less than 20 of the members.

So as far as I’m concerned it’s driven by a very small minority who were sat on paper millions when peace solid his shares but are angry they were never weighed in.  However there’s no need for anyone to ever make them liquid, nobody needs their 12% from them. 

Id be pretty inebriated and bitter too. Some members are are sat on millions but also sat on sweet fa. Even a single share would be nice retirement pot if anyone found a buyer for it.

It’s like they hope to annoy Lai in to buying the remainder but I can’t see it happening.. I’ve not seen S4A  try to involved in general issues  for the ‘good of the club’, if they did maybe I’d have more sympathy for them. As it happens it seems it’s just about an investment for them so I don’t.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 21, 2021, 02:42:25 PM
I don’t know what they want to achieve either. I’ve looked in to the numbers of S4A before. Don’t quote me but  I think there is something like 417 members, most of whom have a single share. About 90% of the Shares in the group are held by less than 20 of the members.

So as far as I’m concerned it’s driven by a very small minority who were sat on paper millions when peace solid his shares but are angry they were never weighed in.  However there’s no need for anyone to ever make them liquid, nobody needs their 12% from them. 

Id be pretty inebriated and bitter too. Some members are are sat on millions but also sat on sweet fa. Even a single share would be nice retirement pot if anyone found a buyer for it.

It’s like they hope to annoy Lai in to buying the remainder but I can’t see it happening.. I’ve not seen S4A  try to involved in general issues  for the ‘good of the club’, if they did maybe I’d have more sympathy for them. As it happens it seems it’s just about an investment for them so I don’t.

The details on the 'share issue' are under the Peace thread from memory. Long story short, he launched a consolidation scheme where you had to have 10 shares for one new share. So if you had one share, you had to find 9 others that were for sale [ if you could afford them], so most were literally forced to sell to Peace with very little profit involved.
S4A have a vested interest in the club; I don't believe for one second that anyone would buy a share in a football club and expect a profit. Whilst some choose to discount their measly 12% holding, I for one am happy that they are 'asking the question'.

It was said earlier in the thread that the interest generated from the loan is far better than anything on offer today, so it is good business. This can only be true if the loan and interest is eventually paid back. However, if there is intention that the loan is not going to be paid back then all the interest counts for absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 21, 2021, 05:35:22 PM
When the football club owes the holding company £23 million I'd not be making much (any) noise about this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 21, 2021, 05:36:42 PM
Can someone help me out here in case I have got this wrong.

Peace borrowed circa £3.5m from the club [at favourable terms], and it is strongly suspected that he used the money to buy up the shares to achieve his majority shareholder position

Peace then sold the club to Mr Lai

Is there an assumption here that Peace passed the debt on to Mr Lai?

What am I missing here?

Peace owned 100% of WBA Holdings.

WBA Holdings owns 88% of WBAFC.
 

WBA Holdings loaned around £3.5 million from WBAFC. The terms of the loan favour WBAFC, in that the interest charged to WBA Holdings is 5% above B of E base rate. The value of the debt is now around £4.5 million.

The terms of the loan means that it can be recalled at any time by WBAFC.

When Lai bought WBA Holdings, the debt to WBAFC was part of the package.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 21, 2021, 05:48:19 PM
Peace owned 100% of WBA Holdings.

WBA Holdings owns 88% of WBAFC.
 

WBA Holdings loaned around £3.5 million from WBAFC. The terms of the loan favour WBAFC, in that the interest charged to WBA Holdings is 5% above B of E base rate. The value of the debt is now around £4.5 million.

The terms of the loan means that it can be recalled at any time by WBAFC.

When Lai bought WBA Holdings, the debt to WBAFC was part of the package.

Thank you John, I knew you would clarify this for me.

So why did WBA Holdings borrow the money from WBAFC?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 21, 2021, 05:57:20 PM
Thank you John, I knew you would clarify this for me.

So why did WBA Holdings borrow the money from WBAFC?

Mechanisms I can do, reasons & emotions are above my pay grade  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 21, 2021, 07:20:51 PM
This has got nothing to do with Lai so if Ebenezer did buy up shares to take over all control of club is it illegal?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 21, 2021, 07:49:45 PM
Mechanisms I can do, reasons & emotions are above my pay grade  :)

'The money was just resting in my account'

Father Ted aficionados' will know that one  ;D

It still does not add up to me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on July 21, 2021, 10:19:26 PM

So why did WBA Holdings borrow the money from WBAFC?

To allegedly enable Peace to use £3.7m of the club's money to buy the shares rather than £3.7m of his own money.

This is the allegation which Peace denies, but offers no alternative explanation to what he did with the £3.7m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 21, 2021, 11:28:09 PM
To allegedly enable Peace to use £3.7m of the club's money to buy the shares rather than £3.7m of his own money.

This is the allegation which Peace denies, but offers no alternative explanation to what he did with the £3.7m.

Exactly. What else is a holdings company want money for, it can only be for shares surely ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2021, 06:57:36 AM
Exactly. What else is a holdings company want money for, it can only be for shares surely ?

Absolutely, but Peace denies this. This is what he said to the Times;

 â€œCertain independent shareholders have been grumbling for years since I sold shares in 2016, when they know that they have no basis for complaint,” Peace told the Times. “I want to make it clear that money was not borrowed from the football club to buy shares.
“The loan made to West Bromwich Albion Holdings by the football club was on arm’s length and commercially attractive terms at a time when cash deposits elsewhere were (and still are) earning a much lower rate of interest.”

Think about it, in the years leading up to the sale Peace has been busy acquiring and manipulating the shares in order to get the majority shareholder position he required. Can you actually see Peace doing something like paying over the top interest on a loan as it had 'commercially attractive terms'?

If the loan was not used to buy shares then it should still be there and can be paid back to the club, with the lovely interest from the commercial arrangement that he so generously put in place. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 22, 2021, 08:47:00 AM
The real missing nugget is "money was not borrowed from the football club to buy shares." so, What was it borrowed for??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 22, 2021, 08:54:10 AM
The real missing nugget is "money was not borrowed from the football club to buy shares." so, What was it borrowed for??

Hair transplant and everybody is just too embarrassed to talk about it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2021, 09:13:43 AM
Getting back on to the theme of the thread, I do wonder whether this loan was lost in the finer detail of the sale of the club and has come as a bit of a surprise to Mr Lai. Given the financial predicament that he finds himself in I would have thought that Mr Lai would chase Peace himself to recover the loan. What sort of a businessman would agree to take on a loan procured to buy shares for the outgoing owner [allegedly]?

Its almost as though he is buying part of the club twice to me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on July 22, 2021, 09:27:26 AM
I don't think it has ever been suggested it was a surprise to Lai. It was a surprise to everyone else when it was discovered .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2021, 09:51:38 AM
I don't think it has ever been suggested it was a surprise to Lai. It was a surprise to everyone else when it was discovered .

No I don't think it was either, not something I would have though such a savvy businessman as him would have readily agreed to though, unless he saw so many pound sign coming out of Jeremys mouth he though it would not be a problem.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 22, 2021, 09:55:33 AM
It is really easy to see how Lai took on the loan. In large commercial deals often it is smallish details around the edge that make or break a deal e.g. payment terms currency and on going liabilities.

Taking over the loan would have been easier for the new owners than paying cash and Peace probably used that to close out the last half yard on the deal giving up something elsewhere. It works for both parties it is as good as cash to Peace and it probably is easier for the Chinese authorities to accept or maybe keeps the cash transaction below a certain pricing point. We will never know why but there is nothing particularly odd or shady about it. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 22, 2021, 10:18:16 AM
Hair transplant and everybody is just too embarrassed to talk about it.

Clearly didn't take root so quite literally nothing to see here.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2021, 11:08:05 AM
It is really easy to see how Lai took on the loan. In large commercial deals often it is smallish details around the edge that make or break a deal e.g. payment terms currency and on going liabilities.

Taking over the loan would have been easier for the new owners than paying cash and Peace probably used that to close out the last half yard on the deal giving up something elsewhere. It works for both parties it is as good as cash to Peace and it probably is easier for the Chinese authorities to accept or maybe keeps the cash transaction below a certain pricing point. We will never know why but there is nothing particularly odd or shady about it.

Not so sure about that Stan, borrowing money from your club to [allegedly] buy shares for you so you can sell the club for a massive profit sounds a bit shady to me, and it is interesting that Peace has come out with his 'nothing to see here' statement early doors.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 22, 2021, 11:11:23 AM
Not so sure about that Stan, borrowing money from your club to [allegedly] buy shares for you so you can sell the club for a massive profit sounds a bit shady to me, and it is interesting that Peace has come out with his 'nothing to see here' statement early doors.
My memory might be failing me after so long, but didn't Peace use the club's money to take control of it in the first place?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 22, 2021, 11:34:26 AM
The details on the 'share issue' are under the Peace thread from memory. Long story short, he launched a consolidation scheme where you had to have 10 shares for one new share. So if you had one share, you had to find 9 others that were for sale [ if you could afford them], so most were literally forced to sell to Peace with very little profit involved.
S4A have a vested interest in the club; I don't believe for one second that anyone would buy a share in a football club and expect a profit. Whilst some choose to discount their measly 12% holding, I for one am happy that they are 'asking the question'.

It was said earlier in the thread that the interest generated from the loan is far better than anything on offer today, so it is good business. This can only be true if the loan and interest is eventually paid back. However, if there is intention that the loan is not going to be paid back then all the interest counts for absolutely nothing.

I’m aware of what happened with the 10/1 consolidation. However I wonder if some of those S4A members spoke up then for fans losing out at that point, or were some happy to have a chance to increase there own numbers. It’s not impossible someone with foresight saw money increasing in the game thought they would make money in a sale too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on July 22, 2021, 11:52:34 AM
My memory might be failing me after so long, but didn't Peace use the club's money to take control of it in the first place?

There were claims he might have used club money in 2010.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2010/07/29/so-what-is-jeremy-peace-up-to-now/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 22, 2021, 11:52:52 AM
Not so sure about that Stan, borrowing money from your club to [allegedly] buy shares for you so you can sell the club for a massive profit sounds a bit shady to me, and it is interesting that Peace has come out with his 'nothing to see here' statement early doors.

As stated before if S4c have a gripe it is with Peace. There is nothing odd about the transaction between Peace and the new owners. If there was an issue it is with the original loan and it's use. Once the loan is in place trading it as part of the transaction to buy the club does not make things better or worse. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2021, 11:56:30 AM
I’m aware of what happened with the 10/1 consolidation. However I wonder if some of those S4A members spoke up then for fans losing out at that point, or were some happy to have a chance to increase there own numbers. It’s not impossible someone with foresight saw money increasing in the game thought they would make money in a sale too.

Why don't you ask them Johnny?

http://s4a.org/

I don't think you ever buy a share in a football club to make a profit. I can well imagine that multiple share holders were looking after themselves, but only to protect their money which is understandable. They have been fairly vocal about the aggressive share consolidation scheme, and continue to be the agitated wasp in Mr Peace's car as we speak.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2021, 12:05:47 PM
There were claims he might have used club money in 2010.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2010/07/29/so-what-is-jeremy-peace-up-to-now/

I think it is well know that he didn't put much of his own money in - thanks for the article.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2021, 12:10:17 PM
As stated before if S4c have a gripe it is with Peace. There is nothing odd about the transaction between Peace and the new owners. If there was an issue it is with the original loan and it's use. Once the loan is in place trading it as part of the transaction to buy the club does not make things better or worse.

I agree that S4A have a gripe with Peace, and I agree that there is nothing odd with the loan transaction. What is a mystery is what it was used for, which Peace is keen to tell all that 'it was not used to buy shares for me'.

S4A have an audience with Ken on the 29th I think. However, I don't imagine that they will get far as Kens boss owns 88% of the club, so it is his bat and his ball.

No doubt they will receive a polite but firm 'Go away'.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 22, 2021, 12:13:22 PM
I agree that S4A have a gripe with Peace, and I agree that there is nothing odd with the loan transaction. What is a mystery is what it was used for, which Peace is keen to tell all that 'it was not used to buy shares for me'.

S4A have an audience with Ken on the 29th I think. However, I don't imagine that they will get far as Kens boss owns 88% of the club, so it is his bat and his ball.

No doubt they will receive a polite but firm 'Go away'.

he'll just say "ask baldy, nowt to do with us aer kid !"  pointless asking!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2021, 12:22:14 PM
he'll just say "ask baldy, nowt to do with us aer kid !"  pointless asking!

Did anybody else say that back to themselves in a chinese accent?? ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 22, 2021, 02:19:17 PM
As the repayment of this loan is always going to be at the behest of the club's owner, it's hard to envisage a scenario where any owner will be willing to pay it back, so how much interest it accrues appears to be moot.

What obligation exists that this loan must ever be repaid and, if there is one, who can enforce it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2021, 02:47:57 PM
As the repayment of this loan is always going to be at the behest of the club's owner, it's hard to envisage a scenario where any owner will be willing to pay it back, so how much interest it accrues appears to be moot.

What obligation exists that this loan must ever be repaid and, if there is one, who can enforce it?

Its not going to be repaid Worc is it? And therein lies the problem......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 22, 2021, 02:50:21 PM
Its not going to be repaid Worc is it|? And therein lies the problem......
Lai shouldn't have taken the loan on, he should have insisted that Peace pay it back as part of the deal. It's not like Peace wasn't getting a king's ransom after all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 22, 2021, 03:14:06 PM
Peace has offered no explanation let alone a credible explanation for why he borrowed £3.7m from the club.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on July 22, 2021, 03:18:36 PM
Lai shouldn't have taken the loan on, he should have insisted that Peace pay it back as part of the deal. It's not like Peace wasn't getting a king's ransom after all.

It's not just Lai who should have insisted on repayment. Likewise the board of Club should have sought the repayment of the loan before the sale of Holdings to Lai. At the time of the sale, Holdings had already defaulted on the first instalment of the repayment of the loan to Club .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2021, 03:28:16 PM
Peace has offered no explanation let alone a credible explanation for why he borrowed £3.7m from the club.

Actually 82 he has;

“The loan made to West Bromwich Albion Holdings by the football club was on arm’s length and commercially attractive terms at a time when cash deposits elsewhere were (and still are) earning a much lower rate of interest.”

He was doing us a favour apparently. Thats OK then isn't it.

He also categorically denies buying shares..... for himself.....with club money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 22, 2021, 03:53:39 PM
There were claims he might have used club money in 2010.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2010/07/29/so-what-is-jeremy-peace-up-to-now/
Thanks for that link, but my observation was with regard to when Peace took control of the club from Paul Thompson.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on July 22, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
Thanks for that link, but my observation was with regard to when Peace took control of the club from Paul Thompson.

That period is covered at

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2014/07/09/matt-scott-west-brom-s-history-of-attritional-shareholder-war-shows-why-one-man-is-at-peace/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 22, 2021, 05:25:19 PM
That period is covered at

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2014/07/09/matt-scott-west-brom-s-history-of-attritional-shareholder-war-shows-why-one-man-is-at-peace/
Thanks, but it doesn't really appear to cover how Peace (other than in collaboration with Kappa) funded his various purchases.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on July 22, 2021, 05:42:16 PM
Thanks, but it doesn't really appear to cover how Peace (other than in collaboration with Kappa) funded his various purchases.

He received a £1m + a year as Chairman. £1.95 million in his last year.

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/bumper-pay-rise-jeremy-peace-12532731
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2021, 06:35:55 PM
He received a £1m + a year as Chairman. £1.95 million in his last year.

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/bumper-pay-rise-jeremy-peace-12532731

He really did take our club to the cleaners didn't he........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wodenson46 on July 22, 2021, 07:34:43 PM
What can /will happen if JP is found to be guilty of everything he is accused of?
Will the small shareholders get any reparation?
Will Our club get any money?
What about capital punishment?
Who benefits who loses and by how much?

Cannot pretend to even understand the general issues, let alone how ethical or legal his actions were, but will somebody please try to explain for me in words of three syllables or less what the expectations might be regarding the outcomes  of this case. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on July 22, 2021, 07:37:38 PM
He really did take our club to the cleaners didn't he........

Peace’s greed has really tarnished his reputation, no doubt he improved the club but his greed is now hindering it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 22, 2021, 07:48:48 PM
JP is an astute and shrewd businessman. There is no way he will have kept a dirty trail along the way or done anything illegal.

S4A would be better putting their efforts into forming a consortium to buy Lai out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieNick on July 22, 2021, 08:47:22 PM
Peace’s greed has really tarnished his reputation, no doubt he improved the club but his greed is now hindering it.

Never liked him. Horrible. A huge fan apparently. I wonder how many times he's been up the Albion since he sold?......

For him personally the deal was so good it was almost surreal. The real fans are now left with the consequences.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 22, 2021, 11:10:32 PM
JP is an astute and shrewd businessman. There is no way he will have kept a dirty trail along the way or done anything illegal.

S4A would be better putting their efforts into forming a consortium to buy Lai out.

I pretty much agree with your second sentence

He will not have done anything that would jeopardise his potential sale of this club

Quite frankly - I don’t care whether he did utilise the funds to buy shares. The man is history so I’m not going to get my knickers in a twist over it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 23, 2021, 09:42:46 AM
What can /will happen if JP is found to be guilty of everything he is accused of?
Will the small shareholders get any reparation?
Will Our club get any money?
What about capital punishment?
Who benefits who loses and by how much?

Cannot pretend to even understand the general issues, let alone how ethical or legal his actions were, but will somebody please try to explain for me in words of three syllables or less what the expectations might be regarding the outcomes  of this case.

I think that S4A are trying to prove a point with Peace. The purpose of the £3.7m loan from WBAFC to the Peace company is under question. Peace denies he used it to buy shares for himself, instead selling it as an 'arms length arrangement with favourable interest rates above the base rate'. S4A do not believe this, and neither does anyone else.

I cannot see how there will be any reparation to the small shareholders; its not about that.

WBAFC are owed £3.7m plus interest, and it is currently estimated to be £5m overall. Apparently this debt can be called in at any time, but with Lai the major shareholder and with a foot in both concerns, he would effectively be asking himself to pay the money over to the club, which is unlikely to happen any time soon. 

In respect of capital punishment I assume you mean an FA fine and not the death penalty, which would be a bit harsh. I don't know to be honest. This could be a case of 'be careful what you wish for'. If Peace and the club broke any rules there could be a financial penalty, and any penalty will almost certainly be on the club, not the Jersey boy. I don't think it will come to this though, this is just a questionable internal business transaction.

The potential loser at the moment is the club and Lai. WBA are £3.7m down and Lai owns the debt. You will know who the big time winner is.

It is like me borrowing £10 from you to put on a horse at 10/1. The horse wins and I don't give you your £10 back.

S4A are trying to prove a point of principal as far as I can see. I wish there was an S4A forum member who could contribute to this discussion.

I can understand that some are not that bothered about Peace and the loan as it is history. However, we still constantly go on about the lack of investment and lack of ambition. From the moment Peace joined the board he could see the big picture. I came across the following statement the other day by Clive Stapleton and Barry Hurst, who were forced to resign on 13/06/2002.

 http://www.baggies.com/news/?id=449&pag=18

Knowing what we now know you can see that Peace was always one step ahead of everyone else. You can also see the chaos that was going on in the boardroom at the time. I met Stapleton and the others, good honest businessmen who were lifelong WBA fans who wanted to do the best for the club, not themselves. For me the Stapleton statement was sad reading, as it marks the time when the club went into a different direction that could never be reversed.

Peace did a lot of good for the club. He was shrewd and astute and has kept us financially solid. We now know why. I was particularly impressed with the way he stood up to Levy over Berahino. There is no doubt he left us in a better position than where we were in 2002, but at what cost? Where would we be had Peace not have gained control? Impossible to say really, we could  have been a top 6 side, or we could have been looking forward to trips to Barnet, Wycombe, Rochdale etc. However, what the Peace sale has done is land us with an inexperienced owner, no investment, and a sale price that no one in their right mind is ever going to match. So we are stuck with this for a long time, and this is all down to the greed of one man.

I like S4A, they are chipping away and asking questions. Personally I think that the meeting they have with Ken next week will be a futile exercise, but at least they are having a go. As BB74 said, perhaps they should spend more time trying to find investors to buy Lai out.

Personally I am just looking forward to getting back to the ground and watching the team, hopefully exciting times ahead with VI, but we have been here before  ;)

   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wodenson46 on July 23, 2021, 12:05:16 PM
Ace post Skyclad, many thanks, received and understood.  :o

Tend to fully agree with you about S4A,  'whipping a Jed oss' as they say where I come from. Resources and influence might be better used for future rather than past.

"Personally I am just looking forward to getting back to the ground and watching the team, hopefully exciting times ahead with VI, but we have been here before" .

Sums it up perfectly for me as well. Cheers sir! ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2021, 01:07:34 PM
I think that S4A are trying to prove a point with Peace. The purpose of the £3.7m loan from WBAFC to the Peace company is under question. Peace denies he used it to buy shares for himself, instead selling it as an 'arms length arrangement with favourable interest rates above the base rate'. S4A do not believe this, and neither does anyone else.

I cannot see how there will be any reparation to the small shareholders; its not about that.

WBAFC are owed £3.7m plus interest, and it is currently estimated to be £5m overall. Apparently this debt can be called in at any time, but with Lai the major shareholder and with a foot in both concerns, he would effectively be asking himself to pay the money over to the club, which is unlikely to happen any time soon. 

In respect of capital punishment I assume you mean an FA fine and not the death penalty, which would be a bit harsh. I don't know to be honest. This could be a case of 'be careful what you wish for'. If Peace and the club broke any rules there could be a financial penalty, and any penalty will almost certainly be on the club, not the Jersey boy. I don't think it will come to this though, this is just a questionable internal business transaction.

The potential loser at the moment is the club and Lai. WBA are £3.7m down and Lai owns the debt. You will know who the big time winner is.

It is like me borrowing £10 from you to put on a horse at 10/1. The horse wins and I don't give you your £10 back.

S4A are trying to prove a point of principal as far as I can see. I wish there was an S4A forum member who could contribute to this discussion.

I can understand that some are not that bothered about Peace and the loan as it is history. However, we still constantly go on about the lack of investment and lack of ambition. From the moment Peace joined the board he could see the big picture. I came across the following statement the other day by Clive Stapleton and Barry Hurst, who were forced to resign on 13/06/2002.

http://www.baggies.com/news/?id=449&pag=18

Knowing what we now know you can see that Peace was always one step ahead of everyone else. You can also see the chaos that was going on in the boardroom at the time. I met Stapleton and the others, good honest businessmen who were lifelong WBA fans who wanted to do the best for the club, not themselves. For me the Stapleton statement was sad reading, as it marks the time when the club went into a different direction that could never be reversed.

Peace did a lot of good for the club. He was shrewd and astute and has kept us financially solid. We now know why. I was particularly impressed with the way he stood up to Levy over Berahino. There is no doubt he left us in a better position than where we were in 2002, but at what cost? Where would we be had Peace not have gained control? Impossible to say really, we could  have been a top 6 side, or we could have been looking forward to trips to Barnet, Wycombe, Rochdale etc. However, what the Peace sale has done is land us with an inexperienced owner, no investment, and a sale price that no one in their right mind is ever going to match. So we are stuck with this for a long time, and this is all down to the greed of one man.

I like S4A, they are chipping away and asking questions. Personally I think that the meeting they have with Ken next week will be a futile exercise, but at least they are having a go. As BB74 said, perhaps they should spend more time trying to find investors to buy Lai out.

Personally I am just looking forward to getting back to the ground and watching the team, hopefully exciting times ahead with VI, but we have been here before  ;)

 


Re: The first section in bold..................


WBAFC owe the owner (WBA Holdings) around £23 million. This debt carries no interest, so isn't going to get any bigger

To repay the £3.7 million plus interest that the owner owes to WBAFC, all he has to do, is off-set it against the debt that WBAFC owes to WBA Holdings.

So........

I owe you £23 million interest free.

You owe me £3.7 million with an interest of 5% over BoE base rate.

I can call in your debt at any time, but if I hang on long enough, I'll have accumulated enough interest to call it quits.

I'd be absolutely mad to call it in.

The link in bold

I've looked at the link, & all I can see is waffle, there's nothing concrete there at all. It's pretty clear, at that time we were being run by well meaning, but enthusiastic amateurs. Peace, however ruthless, bought some professionalism into the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Nickwba1 on July 23, 2021, 01:09:03 PM
This is an issue with Peace rather than the club per se. I was a shareholder but sold my stake I think when Peace did his last round up of shares. Do I feel annoyed that I couldn't get the 'true' value of the share, of course; I got a fraction of what it was really worth. However, everyone knew that he only ever needed x% then no one would ever need to buy more, thus it was very unlikely you'd ever see the full true value unless some one wanted the full 100%, Peace knew that and so did all the shareholders, it's how things work in business and when you have very little power there's not much you can do. All the shareholders are still sat there with their 1 share that will continue to be worth very little and frustrated with what Peace did.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 23, 2021, 01:29:18 PM

Re: The first section in bold..................


WBAFC owe the owner (WBA Holdings) around £23 million. This debt carries no interest, so isn't going to get any bigger

To repay the £3.7 million plus interest that the owner owes to WBAFC, all he has to do, is off-set it against the debt that WBAFC owes to WBA Holdings.

So........

I owe you £23 million interest free.

You owe me £3.7 million with an interest of 5% over BoE base rate.

I can call in your debt at any time, but if I hang on long enough, I'll have accumulated enough interest to call it quits.

I'd be absolutely mad to call it in.

The link in bold

I've looked at the link, & all I can see is waffle, there's nothing concrete there at all. It's pretty clear, at that time we were being run by well meaning, but enthusiastic amateurs. Peace, however ruthless, bought some professionalism into the club.

I take your point about the counter debt, but we will be waiting a very long time before they balance. Of course another way would be to sell Pereira & Johnstone and clear the debt, which would then take us back to being a few bob down in the Albion coffers.

I never said that there was anything concrete in the link I have provided, it is more of an indication as to what was going on in the boardroom at the time. There is also counter statements from Peace saying how is is going to unite the club and take us forward etc... now this is waffle for you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 23, 2021, 04:33:47 PM
I take your point about the counter debt, but we will be waiting a very long time before they balance. Of course another way would be to sell Pereira & Johnstone and clear the debt, which would then take us back to being a few bob down in the Albion coffers.

I never said that there was anything concrete in the link I have provided, it is more of an indication as to what was going on in the boardroom at the time. There is also counter statements from Peace saying how is is going to unite the club and take us forward etc... now this is waffle for you.

High quality waffle though, he did unite the club & he did take us forward.

Under his stewardship WBA had a good reputation as a model club & his opinions were highly sought in football governance.

Roy Hodgson, brought in by Dan Ashworth (appointed by Peace) went on to become England Manager.

Dan Ashworth himself went on to become Director of Elite Development for the English FA. & is now sporting director at Brighton

Richard Garlick left WBA to become a director of football at the Premier League & now holds the same position at Arsenal.

It's often said the measure of a good manager is the progress made by their subordinates.
Based on what I've seen, I would say JP created an environment where executives could thrive.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 24, 2021, 09:05:25 AM
'The money was just resting in my account'

Father Ted aficionados' will know that one  ;D

It still does not add up to me.

Only just read that. Brilliant.

Peace might have been greedy but what we achieved under his stewardship was the best spell since the early 80s.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 24, 2021, 11:02:05 AM
Ebenezer was only in it to make a buck all this bolo about how he improved the club is that bolo. Thompson did the heavy lifting with Sir Gary, Scrooge was in the right place at the right time for him but at detriment of the Albion. Did naff all but tread water until he could gain control and sell to the highest bidder again at detriment of the Albion. As for new owner and the loan he gave  HE OWNS THE BLOODY CLUB!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 24, 2021, 11:17:53 AM
Ebenezer was only in it to make a buck all this bolo about how he improved the club is that bolo. Thompson did the heavy lifting with Sir Gary, Scrooge was in the right place at the right time for him but at detriment of the Albion. Did naff all but tread water until he could gain control and sell to the highest bidder again at detriment of the Albion. As for new owner and the loan he gave  HE OWNS THE BLOODY CLUB!

The loan was paid to Jeremy Peace by WBA, not to Lai. Peace did not pay it back, instead he passed the debt onto Lai.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 24, 2021, 01:19:14 PM
The loan was paid to Jeremy Peace by WBA, not to Lai. Peace did not pay it back, instead he passed the debt onto Lai.

Despite pocketing £175m which is a measure of the man.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 24, 2021, 02:32:36 PM
The loan was paid to Jeremy Peace by WBA, not to Lai. Peace did not pay it back, instead he passed the debt onto Lai.
not the three million the thirty million he loaned to the club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 24, 2021, 03:47:45 PM
JP did not loan the club £30m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 24, 2021, 03:58:39 PM
JP did not loan the club £30m.

I don't remember that either 82  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 24, 2021, 08:20:53 PM
I don't remember that either 82  ;D

He wouldn't of lent us 30p
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: California Dreaming on July 25, 2021, 12:23:37 AM
Where do people get that the club owes Lai anything? From the 2020 accounts, West Bromwich Albion Group Ltd do not have any inter-company debt owing to West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd (the company that holds Lai’s 88% shareholding in WBA Group Ltd.
He could, of course, pay himself (and all other shareholders) a dividend out of reserves (£32m at July 2020) but has shown no indication of doing so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 25, 2021, 10:35:51 AM
Can anyone answer me this, how is it that club finance's appear to be so dire? Match day revenue is a small percentage of yearly earnings. Think I saw somewhere that its about £7.5 million annually, we should be fiush with funds after promotion and parachute payments and getting high earners of books.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 25, 2021, 10:38:23 AM
Where do people get that the club owes Lai anything? From the 2020 accounts, West Bromwich Albion Group Ltd do not have any inter-company debt owing to West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd (the company that holds Lai’s 88% shareholding in WBA Group Ltd.
He could, of course, pay himself (and all other shareholders) a dividend out of reserves (£32m at July 2020) but has shown no indication of doing so.
so club has got £32 million in bank?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on July 25, 2021, 10:57:02 AM
Can anyone answer me this, how is it that club finance's appear to be so dire? Match day revenue is a small percentage of yearly earnings. Think I saw somewhere that its about £7.5 million annually, we should be fiush with funds after promotion and parachute payments and getting high earners of books.

From our accounts:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08528749/filing-history/MzI5NzQ3ODI0NmFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

For the season ending in our promotion from the Championship (31st July 2020), we made a loss of £23.8m. The report says the loss was due to promotion bonuses and bottom line losses due to Covid.

Income from media activities fell by over £12m, partly due to the reduction in parachute payments, but also the rebate the Broadcasters requested. Apparently there's another penalty of £7m for promoted clubs, too.

Wages increased to £66.9m from £46.8m in June 2019, mainly due to promotion bonuses/clauses.

I'm not an accountant or well versed in going through the accounts, but I can't see where we have £32m just sitting around doing nothing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 25, 2021, 10:59:24 AM
Can anyone answer me this, how is it that club finance's appear to be so dire? Match day revenue is a small percentage of yearly earnings. Think I saw somewhere that its about £7.5 million annually, we should be fiush with funds after promotion and parachute payments and getting high earners of books.

The £7m figure will include match days and merchandise.

The match day is around £4m and that has been another loss to the finances.

Our last season at this level saw us turnover £53m whilst posting huge losses of £23m.

Our wage bill at the last set of accounts had risen to £66m and does not take into account the further increase to wages through our summer business last season - nor the £25m we spent in fees.

We also had to give £10m to the Covid refund.

I wouldn’t say we’re flush. Better position than most but still uncomfortable in a post Covid world.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2021, 11:33:58 AM
From our accounts:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08528749/filing-history/MzI5NzQ3ODI0NmFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

For the season ending in our promotion from the Championship (31st July 2020), we made a loss of £23.8m. The report says the loss was due to promotion bonuses and bottom line losses due to Covid.

Income from media activities fell by over £12m, partly due to the reduction in parachute payments, but also the rebate the Broadcasters requested. Apparently there's another penalty of £7m for promoted clubs, too.

Wages increased to £66.9m from £46.8m in June 2019, mainly due to promotion bonuses/clauses.

I'm not an accountant or well versed in going through the accounts, but I can't see where we have £32m just sitting around doing nothing.


We don't, the reserves include property values.

As far as I am aware, a company can only pay a dividend from profits.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 25, 2021, 11:56:22 AM
Hold on even with being in prem club lost money? That can't be right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 25, 2021, 12:10:11 PM
Hold on even with being in prem club lost money? That can't be right.

Prem accounts won’t be out for a while. Reporting period doesn’t end for a week then they’ll have months to compile and submit the accounts to companies house.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 25, 2021, 12:24:25 PM
Hold on even with being in prem club lost money? That can't be right.

Nobody has said that..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 25, 2021, 02:05:56 PM
Nobody has said that..
well if financial stable why haven't we addressed our short comings on pitch? So far we have acquired a loan signing and two free's all welcome, while Gibbs reported to be on 65 k, Austin on 50k and HRK on North of 30 k have all left club along side Harper, Field and Edwards who would all be on decent contracts. All I'm hearing is that we have to sell our to prized assets to bring monies into club. Doesn't look like our short stay in prem has boosted the coffers if anything it's laid the cupboards bare.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 25, 2021, 03:03:42 PM
well if financial stable why haven't we addressed our short comings on pitch? So far we have acquired a loan signing and two free's all welcome, while Gibbs reported to be on 65 k, Austin on 50k and HRK on North of 30 k have all left club along side Harper, Field and Edwards who would all be on decent contracts. All I'm hearing is that we have to sell our to prized assets to bring monies into club. Doesn't look like our short stay in prem has boosted the coffers if anything it's laid the cupboards bare.

Promotion to the premier league is roughly £100m a season with the remaining monies paid in parachute payments should clubs go down.

That £100m can be easily accounted for - upon promotion the way bill was £66m - it is not inconceivable that this increased to near £70m. We spent up to £25m on fees which takes us to £95 and we had to give a further £10m to the Covid recovery fund.

I think the first set of parachute payments are around £45m - that may just cover the wage bill that as you say will have been slashed following Gibbs and co leaving.

It’s not hard to see why the club needs to sell some of the family gold to increase the funds we have to play with..

Someone with greater financial insight will give you the true parachute payment figures, but you’re basis is there.

There really is not a pot of gold that were sitting and hiding away.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 25, 2021, 03:12:39 PM
The thing that worries me is that many think we will be cash rich once we sell the family gold. My fear is that anything raised will go towards balancing the books first, and anything left will possibly be made available to VI for players. So when MP & SJ are sold, we may not be acquiring the big time players some may be expecting.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 25, 2021, 03:49:37 PM
Promotion to the premier league is roughly £100m a season with the remaining monies paid in parachute payments should clubs go down.

That £100m can be easily accounted for - upon promotion the way bill was £66m - it is not inconceivable that this increased to near £70m. We spent up to £25m on fees which takes us to £95 and we had to give a further £10m to the Covid recovery fund.

I think the first set of parachute payments are around £45m - that may just cover the wage bill that as you say will have been slashed following Gibbs and co leaving.

It’s not hard to see why the club needs to sell some of the family gold to increase the funds we have to play with..

Someone with greater financial insight will give you the true parachute payment figures, but you’re basis is there.

There really is not a pot of gold that were sitting and hiding away.
what about transfer incomings surely we had monies owed on Rondon, Dawson, Rodriguez to name a few.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: California Dreaming on July 25, 2021, 03:58:48 PM
so club has got £32 million in bank?
No. Profit is not the same as cash. The £32m is our cumulative profits built up over several years which in theory could be paid as a dividend. We would have to borrow to do this and it almost certainly won’t happen.
Remember these accounts are 12 months so don’t reflect where we are now. We may have made a small profit in 2020/21 but probably not added much to our cash balance. We will almost certainly lose money this season and with continuing uncertainty over gate receipts, caution in the transfer market, at least until we sell someone. Is inevitable.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: California Dreaming on July 25, 2021, 04:35:21 PM
what about transfer incomings surely we had monies owed on Rondon, Dawson, Rodriguez to name a few.
At 31/7/20 we were owed 7.2m for player transfers. Unfortunately we owed 18m on players we had bought in previous seasons ( probably includes Periera), so that’s another 10 million cash out of our accounts last season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 25, 2021, 04:47:59 PM
what about transfer incomings surely we had monies owed on Rondon, Dawson, Rodriguez to name a few.

That was accounted for in our summer rebuild where we spent the best part of £20m to get out the division
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on July 25, 2021, 04:56:27 PM
For such an allegedly 'well run club', we never seem to have any money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2021, 04:59:17 PM
No. Profit is not the same as cash. The £32m is our cumulative profits built up over several years which in theory could be paid as a dividend. We would have to borrow to do this and it almost certainly won’t happen.
Remember these accounts are 12 months so don’t reflect where we are now. We may have made a small profit in 2020/21 but probably not added much to our cash balance. We will almost certainly lose money this season and with continuing uncertainty over gate receipts, caution in the transfer market, at least until we sell someone. Is inevitable.

Not sure where you're getting the £32 million from?

WBAFC haven't made a profit for some time now, & certainly nowhere near an accumulated profit of £32 million


If you look at the notes on the accounts of WBAFC, WBA Group & WBA Holdings, the highest level company is notified as WBA Holdings.
In the accounts for WBAFC & WBA Holdings, under creditors there is clearly a debt to Group Undertakings of around £23 million, & under debtors an amount of around £4.7 million owed to WBAFC by Group Undertakings.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2021, 05:11:19 PM
The thing that worries me is that many think we will be cash rich once we sell the family gold. My fear is that anything raised will go towards balancing the books first, and anything left will possibly be made available to VI for players. So when MP & SJ are sold, we may not be acquiring the big time players some may be expecting.

There is that possibility, but I suspect the policy will be to strengthen the team in a bid for promotion.

What they won't want to do is increase the debt, & IMO, they will be reluctant to pay the same level of transfer fees as last season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 25, 2021, 05:16:44 PM
There is that possibility, but I suspect the policy will be to strengthen the team in a bid for promotion.

What they won't want to do is increase the debt, & IMO, they will be reluctant to pay the same level of transfer fees as last season.

I think with what we have at the moment, and with a few low price additions, we will have enough to get out of this division. The acid test will be next year if we go up. That will be the window of opportunity for Lai to sell, or else we are going to repeat the same sorry cycle once again. However, I agree with you, money will be their god and they will not want to have the debt, or increase it.

Less said about the loan the better  ;) 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: California Dreaming on July 25, 2021, 05:20:49 PM
WBA Holdings is Lai’s company that owns 88% of WBA Group. The published accounts sent to shareholders are WBA Group - these show no inter-company debt. The 22m shown as ‘company’ in the 2020 accounts is probably owed to WBA Football Club Ltd, 100% owned by WBA Group Ltd - you can tell this because it disappears on consolidation into the higher level Group accounts.
And yes, we have £31565k in the p&l account under ‘capital and reserves’ in the balance sheet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 25, 2021, 05:32:32 PM
Not sure where you're getting the £32 million from?

WBAFC haven't made a profit for some time now, & certainly nowhere near an accumulated profit of £32 million


If you look at the notes on the accounts of WBAFC, WBA Group & WBA Holdings, the highest level company is notified as WBA Holdings.
In the accounts for WBAFC & WBA Holdings, under creditors there is clearly a debt to Group Undertakings of around £23 million, & under debtors an amount of around £4.7 million owed to WBAFC by Group Undertakings.

It was YE July 2017 we announced pre tax profits of £38m.

One thing I’ve noticed from 2016 (pre lai) is we paid a dividend to the holding company of £28m.  The E&S had a story in 2019 that supposedly explained it:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/01/24/mysterious-27m-cash-transfer-between-west-brom-accounts-explained/

Obviously Lai then bought us and I wonder if it is in fact that money that has some point gone back in to the club accounts appears as money due to the owner?

I’m ok at reading / interpreting single year accounts, but where they move between companies and over multiple years i lose a grip on things because I don’t know enough about it all. Could anyone shed any light on this?

That might it’s just club money knocking around rather than money that should be due to Lai as such? (And that if he was to take it the S4A members would also be due?)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bidbaggie on July 25, 2021, 05:56:52 PM
WBA Holdings is Lai’s company that owns 88% of WBA Group. The published accounts sent to shareholders are WBA Group - these show no inter-company debt. The 22m shown as ‘company’ in the 2020 accounts is probably owed to WBA Football Club Ltd, 100% owned by WBA Group Ltd - you can tell this because it disappears on consolidation into the higher level Group accounts.
And yes, we have £31565k in the p&l account under ‘capital and reserves’ in the balance sheet.

Hi - sorry if I have quoted this incorrectly as this is my first post but not sure where the 31,565k comes from.  On the 13 month accounts ended 31/7/20 I have seen, the group balance sheet in WBA Holdings Ltd shows "capital and reserves" of 34,349k

24m of this is actually share premium account which isn't a distributable reserve.  The only amount that could be taken out as a dividend approx. £10m
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 25, 2021, 06:32:36 PM
For such an allegedly 'well run club', we never seem to have any money.
that's my feeling also promotion seems to do little to our fortunes
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 25, 2021, 06:36:46 PM
that's my feeling also promotion seems to do little to our fortunes

Our flex contracts sort of work against us (while preventing serious issues upon relegation if they weren't there)... They flex down to the maximum we can afford in the Championship and flex up to the maximum we can afford in the Premier League, would be nice to have some wiggle room in both divisions...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2021, 06:41:32 PM
It was YE July 2017 we announced pre tax profits of £38m.

One thing I’ve noticed from 2016 (pre lai) is we paid a dividend to the holding company of £28m.  The E&S had a story in 2019 that supposedly explained it:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/01/24/mysterious-27m-cash-transfer-between-west-brom-accounts-explained/

Obviously Lai then bought us and I wonder if it is in fact that money that has some point gone back in to the club accounts appears as money due to the owner?

I’m ok at reading / interpreting single year accounts, but where they move between companies and over multiple years i lose a grip on things because I don’t know enough about it all. Could anyone shed any light on this?

That might it’s just club money knocking around rather than money that should be due to Lai as such? (And that if he was to take it the S4A members would also be due?)

The profits made in y/e July 2017 would have been carried over as an opening figure in the following year. Messrs Williams, Goodman & Pulis managed to spend all of that.

TBH I'm not sure how the alleged £28 million dividend works as a security.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: California Dreaming on July 25, 2021, 06:48:39 PM
Holdings is Lai’s company. The relevant accounts for us are WBA Group Ltd, 88% owned by Holdings and 12% by independent shareholders. Holdings distributable reserves would be their share of Group’s profits since Holdings was set up by Peace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 25, 2021, 07:11:59 PM
Hi - sorry if I have quoted this incorrectly as this is my first post but not sure where the 31,565k comes from.  On the 13 month accounts ended 31/7/20 I have seen, the group balance sheet in WBA Holdings Ltd shows "capital and reserves" of 34,349k

24m of this is actually share premium account which isn't a distributable reserve.  The only amount that could be taken out as a dividend approx. £10m

You’ve mastered the quoting.

Welcome to the forum  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 30, 2021, 05:59:35 PM
Taking a decision that should shock nobody, the club have refused to launch a full scale investigation in to the 3.8m loan.

However, it has been said the the club will announce some dividends will be paid and that these dividends will be used by the holding company to pay the loan back.

This suggests despite relegation and COVID, we made a profit for the FY ending 31/7/21, although it could be next April before any accounts are published going by previous publications.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 30, 2021, 06:16:29 PM
So what Ken is basically saying is the next set of accounts will show a profit so they can provide the shareholders with dividend's. 

The question is where will those profits come from ? Player sales, no investments into current squad ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 30, 2021, 06:24:02 PM
So what Ken is basically saying is the next set of accounts will show a profit so they can provide the shareholders with dividend's. 

The question is where will those profits come from ? Player sales, no investments into current squad ?

The period in question has already happened.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 30, 2021, 06:31:19 PM
Taking a decision that should shock nobody, the club have refused to launch a full scale investigation in to the 3.8m loan.

However, it has been said the the club will announce some dividends will be paid and that these dividends will be used by the holding company to pay the loan back.

This suggests despite relegation and COVID, we made a provide for the FY ending 31/7/21, although it could be next April before any accounts are published going by previous publications.

Would it be possible to raise the cash from a share issue?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 30, 2021, 06:44:11 PM
Would it be possible to raise the cash from a share issue?

I think a share issue would be something typically associated with a publicly floated company, which we aren’t.

Although I would imagine Lai could legally come up with a deal where he gave away part of his ownership on the basis an investor put cash in with an agreement this could be used to clear the debt. The question would be what’s the point for anyone new to own 5% of the club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 31, 2021, 07:20:28 AM
.......However, it has been said the the club will announce some dividends will be paid and that these dividends will be used by the holding company to pay the loan back........

I'll start by acknowledging I'm no financial wizard. But if this is a doable thing I can't be alone in thinking it would have been better to do this when we had £40,000,000 sloshing about in the coffers at the start of the Pulis/Pardew relegation season.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. So is forward planning and paying off a loan before it gathers more interest. Too early for me to be thinking and I've finally got a game to go to. Here's hoping the rain holds off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 31, 2021, 08:36:02 AM
I'm not sure how repaying this loan via a dividend is going to be advantageous to the football club.

To pay a dividend the football club is going to have to show a profit, which means that there will be corporation tax liabilities.

A dividend has to be paid to all shareholders, so for Lai to get (say) £5 million, the minority share holders would get around £1 million. Add in corporation tax of around £1 million, that's a sum of around £7 million.
The only place that can come from (as things stand) is the football club. :'(
It would be cheaper to write it off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 31, 2021, 09:39:11 AM
I'm not sure how repaying this loan via a dividend is going to be advantageous to the football club.

To pay a dividend the football club is going to have to show a profit, which means that there will be corporation tax liabilities.

A dividend has to be paid to all shareholders, so for Lai to get (say) £5 million, the minority share holders would get around £1 million. Add in corporation tax of around £1 million, that's a sum of around £7 million.
The only place that can come from (as things stand) is the football club. :'(
It would be cheaper to write it off.

Not sure that writing it off would be in the interests of the minority shareholders, who have legal rights not to be unfairly prejudiced against.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on July 31, 2021, 11:59:56 AM
All this showes me is that billionaire owner has got no wealth to speak of. Took a gamble on a premiership football club and lost big time. He's probably leveraged to the hilt to financial institutions with crippling interest rates and penalties. Anyone who thinks Pereira and Johnstone fees will be spent in transfer market needs a good head wobble.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 31, 2021, 01:39:15 PM
All this showes me is that billionaire owner has got no wealth to speak of. Took a gamble on a premiership football club and lost big time. He's probably leveraged to the hilt to financial institutions with crippling interest rates and penalties. Anyone who thinks Pereira and Johnstone fees will be spent in transfer market needs a good head wobble.

Correct and JP lied through his teeth when he said he was selling the club to Lai so that the new owner could take the club onto the next level.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on July 31, 2021, 01:42:30 PM
In the interest of being a tiny bit fair the current owner/s are hating this too.

China stopping it's entrepreneur class from exporting money because to help in the football PR move they were doing really kicked all the clubs relying on it in the nuts.

Wolves are stalling and now downgrading players, as an example.

Its in nobody's interests that we're where we are. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 31, 2021, 08:45:45 PM
In the interest of being a tiny bit fair the current owner/s are hating this too.

China stopping it's entrepreneur class from exporting money because to help in the football PR move they were doing really kicked all the clubs relying on it in the nuts.

Wolves are stalling and now downgrading players, as an example.

Its in nobody's interests that we're where we are.

They signed Jose Sa from Olympiakos for just £6.8m after selling Rui to Roma for £10.25m! They have also signed a Barcelona forward on loan (Francisco Trincao), signed Rayan Ait-Nouri for £10m and a Colombian defender Yerson Mosquera for £4.5 million. Mendes continues to supply them with some of the best players around at bargain prices.  The ambition and action of their owners could not be more different to Lai. Comparing Fosun and Lai is like comparing Walmart to a local corner shop.

Lai doesn't have the means or the inclination to invest in the club and only bought it on the basis he could make a quick profit and sell it on, JP of course had no interest whatsoever in the new owners limited plans as long as the buyer was prepared to pay him £175m, that's all he cared about.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 04, 2021, 07:11:06 PM
How is this siphoning off, going to happen?
Only way is a shares dividend or give Lai a massive salary, both unlikely
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 04, 2021, 07:17:15 PM
Bloke will try anything as alleged Dowling transfer story goes, Ishmael was brought to club as he can run club on shoe string but he'd better keep eye on that shoe string.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on August 04, 2021, 07:24:31 PM
Bloke will try anything as alleged Dowling transfer story goes, Ishmael was brought to club as he can run club on shoe string but he'd better keep eye on that shoe string.
keyword, there is no evidence.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 04, 2021, 07:35:46 PM
How do you suggest  he(Lai) is going to do this .
undisclosed fee for a start
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 04, 2021, 07:39:55 PM
undisclosed fee for a start

It's only undisclosed to fans, media and other clubs  :-X
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 04, 2021, 07:52:18 PM
would anyone ever report one figure to authorities while the real figure is higher?  No thought not !

Cough Brighton cough allegedly m'lud !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 04, 2021, 08:03:04 PM
It's only undisclosed to fans, media and other clubs  :-X
if seller and buyer agree that player is worth £25 million but club only receives £5 million who's any the wiser? Hasn't this been tried before?????
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 04, 2021, 08:04:57 PM
if seller and buyer agree that player is worth £25 million but club only receives £5 million who's any the wiser? Hasn't this been tried before?????

No, you are being silly to think football people are not all honest and above suspicion, silly boy !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 04, 2021, 08:10:55 PM
if seller and buyer agree that player is worth £25 million but club only receives £5 million who's any the wiser? Hasn't this been tried before?????

There's checks and balances to stop this happening in the UK.

China & Saudi, who knows, but as I said on another post, I can't imagine it's easy to get illicit money out of Saudi Arabia.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 04, 2021, 08:12:13 PM
There's checks and balances to stop this happening in the UK.

China & Saudi, who knows, but as I said on another post, I can't imagine it's easy to get illicit money out of Saudi Arabia.
bitcoin
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 04, 2021, 08:28:23 PM
There just isn’t a way that Lai could pocket the money really without getting found out, especially when it comes to the FYE and everything is audited for the annual accounts as literally everything including bank accounts, ledgers, contracts etc will be audited by PWC. PWC would not miss something dodgy and definitely wouldn’t turn a blind eye to it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 04, 2021, 08:51:11 PM
There just isn’t a way that Lai could pocket the money really without getting found out, especially when it comes to the FYE and everything is audited for the annual accounts as literally everything including bank accounts, ledgers, contracts etc will be audited by PWC. PWC would not miss something dodgy and definitely wouldn’t turn a blind eye to it.
thats his holding company which ownes club? Where in the world is this company based?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 04, 2021, 09:00:55 PM
thats his holding company which ownes club? Where in the world is this company based?

WEST BROMWICH ALBION FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED registered office is The Hawthorns, West Bromwich, West Midlands, B71 4LF.

End of year accounts audited by PWC.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 04, 2021, 09:09:02 PM
WEST BROMWICH ALBION FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED registered office is The Hawthorns, West Bromwich, West Midlands, B71 4LF.

End of year accounts audited by PWC.
his holding company where in the world is that based? Can't remember the name the one that owns 88 percent stake in club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 04, 2021, 09:13:42 PM
his holding company where in the world is that based? Can't remember the name the one that owns 88 percent stake in club.

WEST BROMWICH ALBION HOLDINGS LIMITED Has the same registered office and auditors

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 04, 2021, 09:17:58 PM
I don’t mean to contribute to things I don’t think are happening, but a Saudi could pay a Chinese person without leaving a trail in the UK quite easily I’d have thought.

Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting this is happening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 04, 2021, 09:22:39 PM
I don’t mean to contribute to things I don’t think are happening, but a Saudi could pay a Chinese person without leaving a trail in the UK quite easily I’d have thought.

Just to be clear, I’m not suggesting this is happening.

Maybe then, my interpretation of what people were saying was they would buy Periera for £35m yet we only declare it as £17 and Lai pockets £18m for instance. Something like that would definitely not be happening.

If we are talking just some Saudi chap personally pay Lai a few million directly from one personal bank account to another I suppose then you are correct it wouldn’t leave a trail in the UK but not too sure how realistic a situation like that is
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 04, 2021, 09:23:06 PM
How often do clubs get a tax audit by HMRS? I mean it took years for Rangers to get found out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 04, 2021, 09:24:22 PM
How often do clubs get a tax audit by HMRS? I mean it took years for Rangers to get found out.

Never. HMRC on the other hand  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 04, 2021, 09:25:39 PM
Maybe then, my interpretation of what people were saying was they would buy Periera for £35m yet we only declare it as £17 and Lai pockets £18m for instance. Something like that would definitely not be happening.

If we are talking just some Saudi chap personally pay Lai a few million directly from one personal bank account to another I suppose then you are correct it wouldn’t leave a trail in the UK but not too sure how realistic a situation like that is
what about paying palm £18 million over the odds for garden contract
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 04, 2021, 09:27:19 PM
Never. HMRC on the other hand  ;) ;D
predicted text  to keep me well away from tax inspector  :-*
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on August 04, 2021, 10:45:08 PM
There just isn’t a way that Lai could pocket the money really without getting found out, especially when it comes to the FYE and everything is audited for the annual accounts as literally everything including bank accounts, ledgers, contracts etc will be audited by PWC. PWC would not miss something dodgy and definitely wouldn’t turn a blind eye to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PricewaterhouseCoopers#Controversies

"In 2014, it came to light that PwC had received $55m from Caterpillar Inc. to develop a tax avoidance scheme"

"In 2005 BusinessWeek reported that PwC was American International Group Inc.'s auditor through AIG's years of "questionable dealings" and accounting improprieties."

"In July 2007, PwC agreed to pay US$229 million to settle a class-action lawsuit brought by shareholders of Tyco International Ltd. over a multibillion-dollar accounting fraud."

etcetera.

But anyway, any dodgy money wouldn't have to go through anything related to Albion. Wasn't that the point of the alleged proposed-deal that The Times uncovered?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 05, 2021, 12:07:06 AM
The libellous posts have been removed.

If you do not have the evidence to support your claims then please leave the “siphoning money out the club” posts off this forum.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 05, 2021, 07:36:29 AM
For anyone with an interest in transfer fee declarations copy and paste 'FIFA TMS' into your internet browser of choice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 05, 2021, 09:52:37 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PricewaterhouseCoopers#Controversies

"In 2014, it came to light that PwC had received $55m from Caterpillar Inc. to develop a tax avoidance scheme"

"In 2005 BusinessWeek reported that PwC was American International Group Inc.'s auditor through AIG's years of "questionable dealings" and accounting improprieties."

"In July 2007, PwC agreed to pay US$229 million to settle a class-action lawsuit brought by shareholders of Tyco International Ltd. over a multibillion-dollar accounting fraud."

etcetera.

But anyway, any dodgy money wouldn't have to go through anything related to Albion. Wasn't that the point of the alleged proposed-deal that The Times uncovered?
are uefa and fa still looking into that and if so they might want to take a look at Pereira deal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 27, 2021, 11:09:57 AM
the sooner he get outs of our club the better
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieNick on August 27, 2021, 12:46:55 PM
the sooner he get outs of our club the better

Don't hold your breath.  Look at the amount he paid for it!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 27, 2021, 02:46:11 PM
Genuinely believe Lai thinks he's entitled to his money back despite the club being in a far worse position than when he took over due to every rotten decision he has made in 5 years. He is in for a shock.

If i had 1 million pounds to invest and i were faced with letting Lai invest it for me or RandomBob off the street i'd be inclined to hand it over to RandomBob. Clueless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 27, 2021, 02:47:24 PM
i suspect were going down the same road as the Blues then
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on August 27, 2021, 03:35:45 PM
Before I get jumped on I want Lai gone as much as the next person but just playing devils advocate a bit; in terms of the team is it really bad ownership? or is it poor from people in charge of the footballing side and could the problem be football itself?

I don’t think we are any worse off financially than we were 10 years ago, only difference is our recruitment policy. 10 years ago we knew we couldn’t compete buying domestic based players so we had the people in charge of the football side (ashworth) looking abroad (olsson, Mulumbu, Yacob etc). Don’t get me wrong for every success there were failures and plenty of them but they were ‘cheap failures’ and if we brought 10 players if 4 were a success and 6 failures it didn’t seem to matter that much.

Now we seem to shop domestically and that’s it really and because of this the fees are higher (Grant & Diangana) there is much more pressure on us getting them right. Where as before we could sign 9/10 players individually cheap we could get away with a few being failures where as now it’s essential that pretty much every singing is a success.

Why can’t we go back to scouting in Europe it can’t be that hard? There is the brexit implications that some others have said but that doesn’t seem to be affecting other teams.

I’m regards to  ‘football itself’ being the problem it is a sorry state of affairs where you can pretty much only compete if running at a loss and have the owner pumping money in. You have no hope at all if you live within your means, which is basically what we do.

When Lai come in and we were being told that we would be run basically the same so only spending what we earn what was it that people actually expected?

Like i say I want him gone just thought I’d put a few more points across
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on August 27, 2021, 05:24:52 PM
Genuinely believe Lai thinks he's entitled to his money back despite the club being in a far worse position than when he took over due to every rotten decision he has made in 5 years. He is in for a shock.

If i had 1 million pounds to invest and i were faced with letting Lai invest it for me or RandomBob off the street i'd be inclined to hand it over to RandomBob. Clueless.
Hi RandomBob here, did you see my adverts in the phone box?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 27, 2021, 05:26:24 PM
Hi RandomBob here, did you see my adverts in the phone box?

 ;D

Is it about those timeshares?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on August 27, 2021, 05:37:02 PM
;D

Is it about those timeshares?
Yes, in Kabul.  Great opportunity!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 27, 2021, 05:39:38 PM
Yes, in Kabul.  Great opportunity!

I've heard a lot of Kabul in the news lately. Sounds like i can't lose!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on August 27, 2021, 06:45:09 PM
When Lai come in and we were being told that we would be run basically the same so only spending what we earn what was it that people actually expected?

Like i say I want him gone just thought I’d put a few more points across

I think you’ll find Jeremy Peace sold the notion to us fans that the new incoming owner would take us to the next level. Something he’d been unable to do as he’d reached his limit.

We’ve actually gone backwards, not forwards.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 27, 2021, 07:06:36 PM
Hi RandomBob here, did you see my adverts in the phone box?

Were you the one in the fishnet tights?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 31, 2021, 01:27:16 PM
It looks like the transfer window is closing with no more incoming business for us, and Zohore may leave on loan if we can find a professional football club that wants him. Reminder, that this season we are lucky enough to receive a parachute payment of around £45m. Factoring in gate receipts, sponsorship and commercial income our overall income this year is around £55m.

Our wage bill the last time we got relegated from the Premiership dropped from £102 to £52.8m and that was pretty much the high water mark for our wage bill. Last season our wage bill once we got promoted under Bilic including promotion bonus hit £59.7m (circa £40m wages & £20m bonus - paying them back for the flex down).

Since relegation we have lost the loanees (Okay, Diagne) and also released or loaned out Ivanovic, Hegazi, Gibbs, Sawyers, Peltier, Austin, Edwards, Harper, Grosicki, Longergan and of course sold Pereira. We have signed Reach (free), Mowatt (fee), Clarke (loan), Hugill (loan) and Molumby (loan).

Based on what we know I would be amazed if our wage bill was more than £45m at present and I think £40m is more realistic against our income this year of £55m. The point of all of this is that we didn't need to sell Pereira to pay the bills, we could have kept him, instead we have sold him and also not reinvested the money back into the squad.  That might end up costing us promotion, not to mention of course the huge and unaffordable cost we face of trying to sign premier league players of his quality if we do get promoted.

I'm enjoying this season so far but realistic that with the way we are operating we would be relegated easily if we do go up, as this squad cannot compete in the Premiership. At some point the board need to learn that once you get to the premiership you can & must spend more than one years TV income to build the squad up; else you end up at best just bouncing up and down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on August 31, 2021, 01:40:43 PM
This is why statements about looking long term just annoy me. I hope we make it back this season but the scales are tipping further away from championship clubs being able to survive in the PL.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: cads_ap_albion on August 31, 2021, 01:41:56 PM
Really good post 82 but we have paid a fair whack of compensation to Barnsley.

Mowatt, Castro and Reach would all have signing on fees. Plus three loan fees probably £500k+ each.

There are extra costs associated with covid that would not have been budgeted for.

Those three extra expenditures have got to come from somewhere. Hopefully we have some spare to invest again in January.

The other thing is Val clearly didn't want Pereira and Pereira didn't want to be here the moment he was offered £140kpw.

I can understand Albion's approach although not entirely agree.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on August 31, 2021, 01:47:33 PM
Really good post 82 but we have paid a fair whack of compensation to Barnsley.

Mowatt, Castro and Reach would all have signing on fees. Plus three loan fees probably £500k+ each.

There are extra costs associated with covid that would not have been budgeted for.

Those three extra expenditures have got to come from somewhere. Hopefully we have some spare to invest again in January.

The other thing is Val clearly didn't want Pereira and Pereira didn't want to be here the moment he was offered £140kpw.

I can understand Albion's approach although not entirely agree.

Agree. In recent years, we've spent big on players like Zohore and Austin which just didn't work. I can see why the owners are trying a cheaper approach. I actually really like the loan + permanent in our favour strategy which I feel only works in our advantage. Hopefully we'll still go up and will have learned from previous lessons about spending big fees. We were at our best when we spent wisely so hopefully it's a return to that era.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 31, 2021, 02:16:04 PM
.....Our wage bill the last time we got relegated from the Premiership dropped from £102 to £52.8m and that was pretty much the high water mark for our wage bill. Last season our wage bill once we got promoted under Bilic including promotion bonus hit £59.7m (circa £40m wages & £20m bonus - paying them back for the flex down).

Since relegation we have lost the loanees (Okay, Diagne) and also released or loaned out Ivanovic, Hegazi, Gibbs, Sawyers, Peltier, Austin, Edwards, Harper, Grosicki, Longergan and of course sold Pereira. We have signed Reach (free), Mowatt (fee), Clarke (loan), Hugill (loan) and Molumby (loan)........

I don't imagine Sam Allardyce had to get by on peanuts, pints of house white and Bisto gravy granules either........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 31, 2021, 02:31:00 PM
It looks like the transfer window is closing with no more incoming business for us, and Zohore may leave on loan if we can find a professional football club that wants him. Reminder, that this season we are lucky enough to receive a parachute payment of around £45m. Factoring in gate receipts, sponsorship and commercial income our overall income this year is around £55m.

Our wage bill the last time we got relegated from the Premiership dropped from £102 to £52.8m and that was pretty much the high water mark for our wage bill. Last season our wage bill once we got promoted under Bilic including promotion bonus hit £59.7m (circa £40m wages & £20m bonus - paying them back for the flex down).

Since relegation we have lost the loanees (Okay, Diagne) and also released or loaned out Ivanovic, Hegazi, Gibbs, Sawyers, Peltier, Austin, Edwards, Harper, Grosicki, Longergan and of course sold Pereira. We have signed Reach (free), Mowatt (fee), Clarke (loan), Hugill (loan) and Molumby (loan).

Based on what we know I would be amazed if our wage bill was more than £45m at present and I think £40m is more realistic against our income this year of £55m. The point of all of this is that we didn't need to sell Pereira to pay the bills, we could have kept him, instead we have sold him and also not reinvested the money back into the squad.  That might end up costing us promotion, not to mention of course the huge and unaffordable cost we face of trying to sign premier league players of his quality if we do get promoted.

I'm enjoying this season so far but realistic that with the way we are operating we would be relegated easily if we do go up, as this squad cannot compete in the Premiership. At some point the board need to learn that once you get to the premiership you can & must spend more than one years TV income to build the squad up; else you end up at best just bouncing up and down.

Assuming that your assumptions are correct, & our income for last season covered our expenditure, where would you get the income from to service the £23 million operating loss the club made in season 2019/20?

As things stand, we have a situation with VI, where "the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts". If that continues, then how do you know that this group of players won't be capable of surviving in the EPL?

Personally, I think the management team have played a blinder this summer window, we've acquired some decent players at low cost (certainly in terms of transfer fees). Added to that they've managed to accumulate some cash to service the losses made in previous seasons. Even if we don't get promoted, we should be in a good place to go again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 31, 2021, 02:42:55 PM
It looks like the transfer window is closing with no more incoming business for us, and Zohore may leave on loan if we can find a professional football club that wants him. Reminder, that this season we are lucky enough to receive a parachute payment of around £45m. Factoring in gate receipts, sponsorship and commercial income our overall income this year is around £55m.

Our wage bill the last time we got relegated from the Premiership dropped from £102 to £52.8m and that was pretty much the high water mark for our wage bill. Last season our wage bill once we got promoted under Bilic including promotion bonus hit £59.7m (circa £40m wages & £20m bonus - paying them back for the flex down).

Since relegation we have lost the loanees (Okay, Diagne) and also released or loaned out Ivanovic, Hegazi, Gibbs, Sawyers, Peltier, Austin, Edwards, Harper, Grosicki, Longergan and of course sold Pereira. We have signed Reach (free), Mowatt (fee), Clarke (loan), Hugill (loan) and Molumby (loan).

Based on what we know I would be amazed if our wage bill was more than £45m at present and I think £40m is more realistic against our income this year of £55m. The point of all of this is that we didn't need to sell Pereira to pay the bills, we could have kept him, instead we have sold him and also not reinvested the money back into the squad.  That might end up costing us promotion, not to mention of course the huge and unaffordable cost we face of trying to sign premier league players of his quality if we do get promoted.

I'm enjoying this season so far but realistic that with the way we are operating we would be relegated easily if we do go up, as this squad cannot compete in the Premiership. At some point the board need to learn that once you get to the premiership you can & must spend more than one years TV income to build the squad up; else you end up at best just bouncing up and down.

This kind of leads on from a point i made a few days ago.

There was a report leaked in may 2019 from the EFL, multiple places reported it, that stated the average top earner was £29k in the championship. The highest top earner was £69k (obviously Fulham at the time). If we take out that top earner, that average top earner drops to £27k. I cant' imagine that number has gone up post covid. If anything it will have dropped.

Now obviously as an ex-prem club, we would be one of the higher ones, but surely we don't have an entire squad earning what you'd have to be a top earner at other clbus to earn. Not when you consider O'Shea, Furlong, Townsend, Palmer, Button, Clarke, Molumby, Reach, Kipre, and their careers. 

What i mean by their careers, lets take Connor Townsend for example. At scunthorpe on maybe 3k per week and we are interested for £500k. I imagine he'd have joined for the step up let alone any pay rise. Accepitng this is football and he probably did get an increase , maybe we sensibly offer 5k per week and the opportunity.

Since then he has become first choice left back, but we have been relegated too, so even with a new contract (but nobody banging down the door to sign him) he's on well under £20k per week.

However, even if we toss all the above out and we do have 20 players on 27k. That is a £28m wage bill per annum.

We have absolutely cut a lot of cloth and unless Dowling is a bigger fool than I thought our wages surely can't be anything like £40m.

There must be some money about, and i'd agree we didnt have to sell Pereira. At least not financially. Otherwise we seriously need to look at how poor we are at negotiating contacts.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 31, 2021, 03:02:38 PM
His aim to try and stay up on the cheap.  We can't be surprised.  Even though some fans were all "if we get rid of MP then there'll be a really good budget in the transfer kitty", the obvious elephant in the room was how likely is it we'd spend it.  And now we've got our answer.  Looking forward to the "we'll have something to spend in January", "we do better when we spend less on player" and "remember Mulumbu and Odemwingie" arguments now.

Compared to other teams in the division we should be like a top 4 team prem spending vs a relegated team.  Our squad is wafer thin as it is, then you've got to allow for Val's style will really take it out of the players fitness wise, then booking's wise, we've got to be prepared for most of our squad being required at some point this season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 31, 2021, 03:07:45 PM
Our wages must be drastically lower than 40m. WAAAAAAAAAYYY lower. Should still be plenty of headroom for transfers.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 31, 2021, 03:55:20 PM
The objective has to be "get to the prem by spending as little as possible', if we do that we "should" have an amount to spend on strengthening and not paying back an over spend from an expensive promotion.

yes its a gamble, but its a better gamble than throwing everything at promotion and being skint and coming back down immediately. Shades of Norwich, , last season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 31, 2021, 04:03:38 PM
The objective has to be "get to the prem by spending as little as possible', if we do that we "should" have an amount to spend on strengthening and not paying back an over spend from an expensive promotion.

yes its a gamble, but its a better gamble than throwing everything at promotion and being skint and coming back down immediately. Shades of Norwich, , last season.

It's quite different to Norwich, they kept their squad, management and best players together, save for Buendia who they sold only after getting top dollar for him, after crucially after he helped get them promoted again. We have dismantled our squad and management team twice, sold our only quality premier league player for half of his value and then not reinvested that cash ahead of a long championship campaign.

If we get promoted again then we need a whole new team to have a chance of staying up. Save for Callum Robinson not one of them looks good enough long term to impress in the premiership. We will need to sign a top quality player like Pereira, except it will cost us £35-40m to sign a player of his calibre, which shows how stupid it was to sell him for £17m. If we go up, we won't have the budget next season to compete and are likely to be even further away than we were 12 months ago.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 31, 2021, 04:21:31 PM
The objective has to be "get to the prem by spending as little as possible', if we do that we "should" have an amount to spend on strengthening and not paying back an over spend from an expensive promotion.

yes its a gamble, but its a better gamble than throwing everything at promotion and being skint and coming back down immediately. Shades of Norwich, , last season.

But the less you spend the less likely you are to get promoted.  We sqeaked over the line the last time we were in this division when we could all see where the holes were in the squad - just buying that one, decent, striker would have put us out of reach.  Imagine the same again but this time "Brentford" don't choke.  It only needs a couple of screw ups and we're suddenly stuck in this division and last time we had MP and Diangana firing us to promotion in the first half.

I don't get why the other option is "throwing everything at promotion" - like it's somehow we have to spend nothing at all or "every penny we can lay our hands on".  We *should* be in a position where we can spend some money - we've got parachute payments, gate receipts are back, player sales, offloaded a lot of wages, if we're not in that position now then when will we?  We certainly won't be better off in 12 months time if we don't go up so do we try and scrape by again? 

Really bugs me when people think that doing promotion on the cheap is somehow the better option.  It's only better when you somehow achieve despite not spending much, not because you've not spent much.  Show me a chairman in the land who wouldn't want a cheaper route to promotion.  If doing it cheap was that much the better option then all the other teams in the division(s) below us would be much more competitive.

I think we take it for granted that we'll get out each time we're in this division to be honest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 31, 2021, 04:27:25 PM
It's quite different to Norwich, they kept their squad, management and best players together, save for Buendia who they sold only after getting top dollar for him, after crucially after he helped get them promoted again. We have dismantled our squad and management team twice, sold our only quality premier league player for half of his value and then not reinvested that cash ahead of a long championship campaign.

If we get promoted again then we need a whole new team to have a chance of staying up. Save for Callum Robinson not one of them looks good enough long term to impress in the premiership. We will need to sign a top quality player like Pereira, except it will cost us £35-40m to sign a player of his calibre, which shows how stupid it was to sell him for £17m. If we go up, we won't have the budget next season to compete and are likely to be even further away than we were 12 months ago.

By "shades of" I was trying to imply "on the cheap".  Clearly we were not going to be able to keep manager / squad in place due to mis-management previously. (personally i'm glad Allardyce / Austin / Dowling and others are gone)

Yes we could and should have got more for MP but we didn't, if the change of tack which Ken spoke of with VI and a 4 year contract has any substance at all, we have to believe we are building something not trying to buy a quick fix (which is doomed to fail AGAIN).

Its very early days and there will be big bumps along the way, lets just hope the hierarchy have learned something from their prior mistakes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 31, 2021, 04:29:51 PM
Why would buying a couple of decent players now, to give us the best chance of going up, not be part of building something?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 31, 2021, 04:32:14 PM
But the less you spend the less likely you are to get promoted.  We sqeaked over the line the last time we were in this division when we could all see where the holes were in the squad - just buying that one, decent, striker would have put us out of reach.  Imagine the same again but this time "Brentford" don't choke.  It only needs a couple of screw ups and we're suddenly stuck in this division and last time we had MP and Diangana firing us to promotion in the first half.

I don't get why the other option is "throwing everything at promotion" - like it's somehow we have to spend nothing at all or "every penny we can lay our hands on".  We *should* be in a position where we can spend some money - we've got parachute payments, gate receipts are back, player sales, offloaded a lot of wages, if we're not in that position now then when will we?  We certainly won't be better off in 12 months time if we don't go up so do we try and scrape by again? 

Really bugs me when people think that doing promotion on the cheap is somehow the better option.  It's only better when you somehow achieve despite not spending much, not because you've not spent much.  Show me a chairman in the land who wouldn't want a cheaper route to promotion.  If doing it cheap was that much the better option then all the other teams in the division(s) below us would be much more competitive.

I think we take it for granted that we'll get out each time we're in this division to be honest.

Sorry, I just do not agree with that first sentence ! 

If thats true we may as well pack up now, as we will not compete with Fulham / Bournemouth / Boro / Stoke or anyone crazy enough to throw all their cash at promotion. Its simply not how the owners run the club now or in the forseeable future. Have we learned nothing watching Fulhams last 2 seasons ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 31, 2021, 05:12:35 PM
Sorry, I just do not agree with that first sentence ! 

If thats true we may as well pack up now, as we will not compete with Fulham / Bournemouth / Boro / Stoke or anyone crazy enough to throw all their cash at promotion. Its simply not how the owners run the club now or in the forseeable future. Have we learned nothing watching Fulhams last 2 seasons ?

It doesn't mean you definitely won't get promoted, I said "less likely".  Spending money on quality players will give you the best chance of going up - it's just common sense.   Better players cost more, better players will give you a better chance of promotion.

There's 24 clubs in the Championship, the vast majority of them don't spend very much, if what I said wasn't true how come we don't see Luton or something winning the title with ease?

Just to reiterate - it doesn't mean it's impossible to go up without spending much, it also doesn't mean you guarantee promotion by spending a lot but how can spending less give you a better chance of promotion?  Why are clubs spending any money at all when they could spend next to nothing giving themselves a better chance?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 31, 2021, 05:43:14 PM
In similar vein, I didnt say spending less gives a better chance, did I ?

i said "get to the prem by spending as little as possible"

We are both guilty of reading what we want to see rather than what was written I'm afraid !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 31, 2021, 07:32:56 PM
I literally said "the less you spend the less likely you are to get promoted" and you said you disagree with that. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 31, 2021, 08:11:32 PM
I literally said "the less you spend the less likely you are to get promoted" and you said you disagree with that.

Obviously your correct Boining_Along, the more money invested in the squad the better calibre of players you can target and better players mean more points. It's a not a coincidence that the clubs that tend to get promoted are the ones with the parachute money and bigger budgets.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 31, 2021, 08:37:06 PM
It seems to me that Valball is more dependant on positional sense than technical ability.

While it's true that players with technical ability command a better price, the same is not necessarily true of players with good positional sense.

Valball looks very agricultural, but, as I understand it, the plan is to get the ball & our attacking players in the opponents final third as quickly & as simply as possible (often from an aerial pass).

I originally thought that we would see us moving in rapid fire triangles to move through defences, but Valball is much more simple than that.

VI has always argued that his main criteria for a player is that they can blend into the team & buy into his philosophy, it might well be he sees that character in some of our younger players

Bearing that in mind, I'm not sure that the argument for acquisition of expensive technical players applies in our case.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 31, 2021, 09:25:36 PM
Obviously your correct Boining_Along, the more money invested in the squad the better calibre of players you can target and better players mean more points. It's a not a coincidence that the clubs that tend to get promoted are the ones with the parachute money and bigger budgets.

better calibre of players you can target and better players mean more points.

does it though ?
So Barca should have won the Champs league year after year after year
Man City should win the Prem every year, erm Liverpool / erm Leicester ...

What is the point of managers / coaching staff / medical teams etc, etc,   Just spend more and win everything its that simple is it ??

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 31, 2021, 11:28:01 PM
Just a dead beat, who was hoping to make money
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on August 31, 2021, 11:42:49 PM
better calibre of players you can target and better players mean more points.

does it though ?
So Barca should have won the Champs league year after year after year
Man City should win the Prem every year, erm Liverpool / erm Leicester ...

What is the point of managers / coaching staff / medical teams etc, etc,   Just spend more and win everything its that simple is it ??

There's still work to do of course, like I said, it's no guarantee, better managers\coaching staff\medical teams will all increase your chance of winning (and the big clubs with the best facilities are again spending more on those very things).  But look at what City, Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc all spend, now compare that to the teams who have just come up.  If the "spend more, get more" wasn't true then the Premier League would be a free for all every season and not just the same few teams at the top.  Apart from Leicester (which was shocked the footballing world it was so unlikely) you've got to go back to 1995 for a non current "big club" to have won the league when Blackburn did it, 26 years ago.  And then you've got Leeds in 92, a massive run of Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton and then back to 81 when Villa won it.  Football was very different 40 years ago.

Or look at the FA Cup, even in a competition that has a knock out element to it (and so luck of the draw plays a part), and it's possible that in a one off match a lower division team can sink a higher one, since Wimbledon's "Crazy Gang" won it in the mid 80's, there's been Everton, Portsmouth and Wigan that have won it, that's it. 

Put it this way as an extreme example.  Build a team of players worth £1m, and now build a team of players worth £100m and pit them against each other.  Who do you think would win?

I realise that some of us want to see the club through rose tinted lenses, but we've got to be realistic, by relying on nominal fees and loans we're making promotion a much bigger challenge than we need to.  I refuse to believe that with the parachute payments, player sales, gate receipts being back, tv money, wage bill reductions that we're broke as a club and will be out spent by other championship teams.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 01, 2021, 08:36:43 AM
Why do the club have to spend money just to suit you mate?
 We are top of the league
We have good players with an interesting manager who has a plan
As I've said before we can almost balance our books now, ready for promotion
How good is that?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 01, 2021, 09:27:55 AM
Why do the club have to spend money just to suit you mate?
 We are top of the league
We have good players with an interesting manager who has a plan
As I've said before we can almost balance our books now, ready for promotion
How good is that?

You and those rose tinted glasses again !??  Tut tut !

No-one is so naive to suggest that better players has no impact, BUT, there are other factors at play and all thats being suggested is, don't put all the eggs in one basket, because if it goes wrong you may no longer have a basket. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 01, 2021, 10:01:05 AM
There's still work to do of course, like I said, it's no guarantee, better managers\coaching staff\medical teams will all increase your chance of winning (and the big clubs with the best facilities are again spending more on those very things).  But look at what City, Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc all spend, now compare that to the teams who have just come up.  If the "spend more, get more" wasn't true then the Premier League would be a free for all every season and not just the same few teams at the top.  Apart from Leicester (which was shocked the footballing world it was so unlikely) you've got to go back to 1995 for a non current "big club" to have won the league when Blackburn did it, 26 years ago.  And then you've got Leeds in 92, a massive run of Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton and then back to 81 when Villa won it.  Football was very different 40 years ago.

Or look at the FA Cup, even in a competition that has a knock out element to it (and so luck of the draw plays a part), and it's possible that in a one off match a lower division team can sink a higher one, since Wimbledon's "Crazy Gang" won it in the mid 80's, there's been Everton, Portsmouth and Wigan that have won it, that's it. 

Put it this way as an extreme example.  Build a team of players worth £1m, and now build a team of players worth £100m and pit them against each other.  Who do you think would win?

I realise that some of us want to see the club through rose tinted lenses, but we've got to be realistic, by relying on nominal fees and loans we're making promotion a much bigger challenge than we need to.  I refuse to believe that with the parachute payments, player sales, gate receipts being back, tv money, wage bill reductions that we're broke as a club and will be out spent by other championship teams.


Sorry, but that's a really one dimensional view of things, all you have considered is transfer fees.

Transfer fees are not a good metric to measure the quality of a player, wages are a better metric, but you've chosen to ignore that.

I doubt very much that our ex-EPL players or EPL loanees are on much less than £30k per week. As others have said, I believe our wages bill will be around £40 million.

A poster, this morning, pointed out that, due to a reduction in media revenue last year, our parachute payments are likely to be reduced to around £34 million. In other words the parachute payments are unlikely to cover the wages.

Then we have the £23 million loss that we made in season 2019/20, which has to be serviced somehow.
I suspect our income last season would also have struggled to cover our expenditure, especially when we had to pay compensation for Bilic, & I can't imagine Big Sam & his entourage would have come cheap.
Which means that the loss will have been compounded.
If the owner can't or won't put any cash into the club that loss has to be self funded from the football club, either the profit and loss account, or through player sales, or more likely both.

The BBC have listed all of the final days transactions & by far the majority were frees & loans.

Personally, I think we've done OK
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on September 02, 2021, 07:28:31 PM

Sorry, but that's a really one dimensional view of things, all you have considered is transfer fees.

Transfer fees are not a good metric to measure the quality of a player, wages are a better metric, but you've chosen to ignore that.

I doubt very much that our ex-EPL players or EPL loanees are on much less than £30k per week. As others have said, I believe our wages bill will be around £40 million.

A poster, this morning, pointed out that, due to a reduction in media revenue last year, our parachute payments are likely to be reduced to around £34 million. In other words the parachute payments are unlikely to cover the wages.

Then we have the £23 million loss that we made in season 2019/20, which has to be serviced somehow.
I suspect our income last season would also have struggled to cover our expenditure, especially when we had to pay compensation for Bilic, & I can't imagine Big Sam & his entourage would have come cheap.
Which means that the loss will have been compounded.
If the owner can't or won't put any cash into the club that loss has to be self funded from the football club, either the profit and loss account, or through player sales, or more likely both.

The BBC have listed all of the final days transactions & by far the majority were frees & loans.

Personally, I think we've done OK

Firstly, I didn't say that only transfer fees are the sign of a quality player.  Wages are another metric but again aren't perfect and probably have more variance.  You still get players past their peak on high wages and you get brilliant young players on not a lot.  My point is simply that the more you spend on players the better they tend to be.  It's undeniable, why are clubs spending lots of money on players if the alternative was to be able to spend nothing and get the same quality?

As for the rest of your post, it's a matter of opinion.  I can see we are well short in some positions and still having to rely on players like Bartley as first choice doesn't fill you with confidence. 

Regarding finances, if you're right then I guess we are an incredibly poorly run club then?  To end up with parachute payments, player sales, massive reductions in wage bill and not having anything to spend is not the sign of a financially well run club.  So the issues still lie at the chairman's door.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 05, 2021, 01:16:56 PM
I would say that due to the brilliant way we have accrued good quality for our system players, without the cost of transfer fees, maybe a smallish amount of signing on fees, is an intelligent and business like way of doing things in the current climate.
If we need a new player at Christmas we can get one
We may even break even by year end and if sorry when we win this league and get promoted we start with a clean slate of relatively or no debt and no overdraft
Some on here want to spend big and borrow, perhaps that how they run their own finances, but I dont like it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 06, 2021, 11:33:20 AM
We may even break even by year end and if sorry when we win this league and get promoted we start with a clean slate of relatively or no debt and no overdraft
How many players do you think we'll need to sign at that point to stand a chance of staying up?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 06, 2021, 12:36:39 PM
1
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 06, 2021, 03:52:39 PM
How many players do you think we'll need to sign at that point to stand a chance of staying up?

15 probably....hence why it was short sighted to either not invest big time last summer or go the other way, do a Norwich and accept it was too big a job and keep as much money as possible for the next cycle. Worst of all, we have given away our only quality premier league player; that we cannot afford to replace and is irreplaceable. If we get promoted this season and apply the same conservative accounting then we are 110% guaranteed to get relegated, it won't even be close.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 06, 2021, 06:49:49 PM
15 probably....hence why it was short sighted to either not invest big time last summer or go the other way, do a Norwich and accept it was too big a job and keep as much money as possible for the next cycle. Worst of all, we have given away our only quality premier league player; that we cannot afford to replace and is irreplaceable. If we get promoted this season and apply the same conservative accounting then we are 110% guaranteed to get relegated, it won't even be close.

That all merely highlights the gulf between the two divisions.  No promoted teams is likely to stay up without very sizeable investment. Yes, a team like Sheffield United might have a remarkable first season but it's unsustainable.  We have to just enjoy the ride or bank on a new owner.
Is
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiemart on September 06, 2021, 07:13:05 PM
I would say that due to the brilliant way we have accrued good quality for our system players, without the cost of transfer fees, maybe a smallish amount of signing on fees, is an intelligent and business like way of doing things in the current climate.
If we need a new player at Christmas we can get one
We may even break even by year end and if sorry when we win this league and get promoted we start with a clean slate of relatively or no debt and no overdraft
Some on here want to spend big and borrow, perhaps that how they run their own finances, but I dont like it

Unfortunately thats not how football is operating now.  I wish it was back to the 70's and 80's when good sides could be built on a shoestring and then challenge for major trophies. But now its all about spending stupid money. Look at how much Villa have spent over the last two seasons and what have they achieved mid table at best. Yes they have just had a cash windfall from the sale of Grealish but we couldn't even get a good deal for the sale of Pereira.

I'm afraid if you want to compete in the greedy premier league you have got to spend mega big. Its no good being a good championship side and its no good being a yoyo club either.  In fact i get bored of us being promoted because I have seen us promoted so many times and then just know we will struggle and get relegated the next season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 06, 2021, 07:34:00 PM
That all merely highlights the gulf between the two divisions.  No promoted teams is likely to stay up without very sizeable investment. Yes, a team like Sheffield United might have a remarkable first season but it's unsustainable.  We have to just enjoy the ride or bank on a new owner.
Is

No it's about being smart with your income, and judging when to push go. The board look at the income for one season and decide what they can spend. They should be looking at the income over three years, based on premiership and parachute money and then deciding when to invest it properly to get the side up a premiership standard. Just as you buy a house - you don't pay for it in 12 months.

The loan fees for Okay, Diagne, ANM, the pay off for Bilic, the large sums paid to Allardyce, the £2m it cost to get Ismael in, the money spent on Grant (£15m) - that's probably the best part of £25m we have spent on a variety of short term decisions, over the last year.

Last summer the board should either have decided to spend this years parachute money on top of the budget or just accepted we couldn't compete and keep back the £30m odd we spent for the longer term and kept the group together. Instead we choose the middle option of committing to a budget that was never going to be enough and turning over the management and playing staff several times - which all leads to loads of money wasted.

If we are lucky enough to get promoted we shall be in a weaker position next summer, as no Pereira but hopefully the promoted teams won't be as good as Leeds and the bottom six will not be as strong as last year. However, it may be the case that we have no chance of competing and the board recognise that rather than giving the manager another £30m, expecting miracles and then sacking him. Only to then panic and throw more money at it in January.

Essentially what we need to do next time when / if we go up is the exact opposite of what we did last year which failed miserably. Spend next to nothing or roll the dice. Don't take a middle ground and waste the TV money with an unrealistic effort that is not funded properly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiemart on September 06, 2021, 08:03:40 PM
No it's about being smart with your income, and judging when to push go. The board look at the income for one season and decide what they can spend. They should be looking at the income over three years, based on premiership and parachute money and then deciding when to invest it properly to get the side up a premiership standard. Just as you buy a house - you don't pay for it in 12 months.

The loan fees for Okay, Diagne, ANM, the pay off for Bilic, the large sums paid to Allardyce, the £2m it cost to get Ismael in, the money spent on Grant (£15m) - that's probably the best part of £25m we have spent on a variety of short term decisions, over the last year.

Last summer the board should either have decided to spend this years parachute money on top of the budget or just accepted we couldn't compete and keep back the £30m odd we spent for the longer term and kept the group together. Instead we choose the middle option of committing to a budget that was never going to be enough and turning over the management and playing staff several times - which all leads to loads of money wasted.

If we are lucky enough to get promoted we shall be in a weaker position next summer, as no Pereira but hopefully the promoted teams won't be as good as Leeds and the bottom six will not be as strong as last year. However, it may be the case that we have no chance of competing and the board recognise that rather than giving the manager another £30m, expecting miracles and then sacking him. Only to then panic and throw more money at it in January.

Essentially what we need to do next time when / if we go up is the exact opposite of what we did last year which failed miserably. Spend next to nothing or roll the dice. Don't take a middle ground and waste the TV money with an unrealistic effort that is not funded properly.

If we do get promoted we will need at least 5 or 6 players just to compete. 5 or 6 decent premier standard players will cost about 90 million, thats 15 million per player and we paid 18 million for Diangana and Grant so saying we get a decent player for 15 million is being a bit conservative. Then you have to sell the expectation of what the club will achieve to that player and that is the hardest thing.

I'm afraid we missed our chance to compete at the top level. when we became established for those 7 or 8 years in the premiership we should have pushed on then and invested in new younger players instead of relying on loans and allowing the established players to get past their best.

I can't see us competing at premier level again until we have an owner who is prepared to throw at least 100 million at the club every season. Unfortunately I can't see that happening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on September 20, 2021, 06:49:40 PM
property market is under pressure in China, one huge company is in deep trouble. If Lai makes his money on real estate this might be a problem, assuming he actually is the owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 20, 2021, 06:57:25 PM
property market is under pressure in China, one huge company is in deep trouble. If Lai makes his money on real estate this might be a problem, assuming he actually is the owner.

Evergrande group are in big trouble. Could be the start of another recession but that's pretty much odds on anyway.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 20, 2021, 07:14:08 PM
Wow !! Evergrande are humongous in the south east around Shenzhen / Guangdong ……
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WD40 on September 20, 2021, 08:59:49 PM
We could always send him a note asking if he’s ok 😂
laiguochuan9@gmail.com
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wappingbaggie on September 25, 2021, 09:25:54 AM
He's indirectly exposed to the Chinese property sector....his main activity is large scale landscaping

Equally big problem for us is policy...relations between China and us were already prickly and have taken a massive downstep 2 weeks ago when we joined usa and Australia in a military alliance to maintain freedom of south China Sea....NO WAY  Lai will be able to send a single penny to England to propose up a vanity project.......wolves might find same thing with fosun
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 25, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
He's indirectly exposed to the Chinese property sector....his main activity is large scale landscaping

Equally big problem for us is policy...relations between China and us were already prickly and have taken a massive downstep 2 weeks ago when we joined usa and Australia in a military alliance to maintain freedom of south China Sea....NO WAY  Lai will be able to send a single penny to England to propose up a vanity project.......wolves might find same thing with fosun

Lai doesn't have any money to send, Peace managed to sell the club to the only Chinese businessman who isn't loaded.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 07, 2021, 12:50:51 PM
There are some quite interesting comments this morning on twitter from Simon Chadwick about the acquisition of Newcastle by the Saudi PIF. (@Prof_Chadwiick).

Simon has always claimed that European football club acquisitions by Chinese & Middle Eastern interests have had a political element.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on October 07, 2021, 02:12:27 PM
There are some quite interesting comments this morning on twitter from Simon Chadwick about the acquisition of Newcastle by the Saudi PIF. (@Prof_Chadwiick).

Simon has always claimed that European football club acquisitions by Chinese & Middle Eastern interests have had a political element.
there was a reason nearly all the Birmingham regional teams were picked up by Chinese buyers at roughly the same time, EVERYTHING China does is political.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 07, 2021, 02:18:27 PM
Land bridge (belt and road project), end of the line = west mids !

https://merics.org/en/tracker/mapping-belt-and-road-initiative-where-we-stand
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on October 07, 2021, 03:13:29 PM
that big new train line for the country might have something to do with it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on October 07, 2021, 08:36:27 PM
What an owner it looks like Newcastle are getting and we end up with Scrooge, well done to that man Peace, done us proud.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stuvetti on October 14, 2021, 02:25:23 PM
Why do people go on and on about Lai not putting money into the club.

Its not about money but about good management. Peace didn't put any money in and we had several seasons in the Prem.

I'd sooner have an owner who looks to live within the club's means than a Mel Morris who put £200m into Derby and where did it get them?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on October 14, 2021, 05:59:43 PM
is there no middle ground between Mel Morris and Jeremy Peace? lets not forget that he sold the club for 200million to someone who was going to take us to the next level.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on October 21, 2021, 11:07:29 AM
We can talk about sacking managers but this guy is still the massive problem. The talk of a takeover has gone really quiet. I guess the £200 million asking price is a stumbling block.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 21, 2021, 11:14:33 AM
This guy is THE problem. Wiped around 75% off his passive investment in 5 years. Absolutely clueless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on October 21, 2021, 08:51:04 PM
We can talk about sacking managers but this guy is still the massive problem. The talk of a takeover has gone really quiet. I guess the £200 million asking price is a stumbling block.

He’s going to sell the club at a massive loss.

Lai needs promotion in order to recoup as much of his investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on October 21, 2021, 10:58:42 PM
This guy is THE problem. Wiped around 75% off his passive investment in 5 years. Absolutely clueless.
He probably paid 75% more than it was worth. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thought we were stupidly over valued.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 22, 2021, 12:11:10 AM
He probably paid 75% more than it was worth. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thought we were stupidly over valued.

He was mugged off big time and unfortunately it will be our millstone for years to come
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 22, 2021, 09:24:16 AM
He probably paid 75% more than it was worth. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thought we were stupidly over valued.

He definitely paid too much but that's his own fault. Giant red flag #1 right there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on October 22, 2021, 10:07:17 AM
He was mugged off big time and unfortunately it will be our millstone for years to come

If that were true I'd expect Jeremy to be wearing concrete slippers somewhere in the Bahamas now.
The kitchen sinks are not very forgiving.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on October 22, 2021, 10:23:05 AM
He probably paid 75% more than it was worth. I’m sure I’m not the only one who thought we were stupidly over valued.

JP's valuation of the club was essentially based on current (then) and future Premier League TV revenues. Despite the reality of that valuation being built on sand we weren't overpriced as a going concern. Relegation reduced our revenue which in turn reduced our value moving forward.

Lai and co. effectively purchased our image rights along with the fixtures and fittings. On that basis JP's valuation wasn't remotely stupid. At the same time Lai and co's failure to appreciate the consequences of relegation wasn't remotely clever.

I honestly have no idea whether they even realised relegation was a thing. Even if they did we had a 'never been relegated' manager in situ' and we were an established Premier League fixture at the time of purchase.

It was also a time when the Chinese Government was rubber stamping the purchase of the football world..... and promptly changed it's mind. Like the rest of us Lai and co. have been caught in an imperfect perfect storm.

They're paying a hefty financial price for the prevailing conditions. We on the other hand are the ones paying the emotional price.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on October 22, 2021, 02:09:53 PM
We were not worth half the number JP sold us for. We won’t know if Lai would have been able to invest in the club further if he had bought us for less than 100 million, however he would have been in a better position to sell.
It feels like we are now stuck and we have peace to thank for that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on October 22, 2021, 02:45:09 PM
Maybe if we go up he will cut his losses and sell for what he can get.  £150m maybe?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 22, 2021, 04:25:17 PM
Maybe if we go up he will cut his losses and sell for what he can get.  £150m maybe?

He'd snap their hands off for that i'd think. I think he'd more be more likely to get 130ish as an unestablished PL team again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on October 22, 2021, 04:40:44 PM
Lsi tenure has been one disaster lurching to the next having said that the bad decisions started almost a decade  ago. Following Roy leaving and him taking dan ashworth with him it began to unravel.

10 years today we beat the villa at seal park. We still haven't managed to replace odemwingie mulumbu Scharner Thomas brunt Morrison foster. Recruitment got worse and worse managerial appointments there were some horrific ones. Sporting director appointments even worse. Peace selling just bad a bad thing worse.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on October 23, 2021, 09:21:05 AM
Lsi tenure has been one disaster lurching to the next having said that the bad decisions started almost a decade  ago. Following Roy leaving and him taking dan ashworth with him it began to unravel.

10 years today we beat the villa at seal park. We still haven't managed to replace odemwingie mulumbu Scharner Thomas brunt Morrison foster. Recruitment got worse and worse managerial appointments there were some horrific ones. Sporting director appointments even worse. Peace selling just bad a bad thing worse.

It's quite depressing when you think of the depths Sir Gary Megson and Paul Thompson dragged us from, the work that went into keeping us going under Peace and where we are as a club now.

A position of third in the Championship shouldn't be sniffed at given the season's stage. But while we have a decent enough starting eleven our squad lacks the quality and character of so many of the players you've mentioned there.

Genuinely feel we're at a crossroads as a club. We're at a precarious time in our history, much more so than when we missed out on promotion under Darren Moore (his mate notwithstanding) and James Shan's caretaker tenure.

Winter's coming........... ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 23, 2021, 12:05:48 PM
It's quite depressing when you think of the depths Sir Gary Megson and Paul Thompson dragged us from, the work that went into keeping us going under Peace and where we are as a club now.

A position of third in the Championship shouldn't be sniffed at given the season's stage. But while we have a decent enough starting eleven our squad lacks the quality and character of so many of the players you've mentioned there.

Genuinely feel we're at a crossroads as a club. We're at a precarious time in our history, much more so than when we missed out on promotion under Darren Moore (his mate notwithstanding) and James Shan's caretaker tenure.

Winter's coming........... ?

When we were owned by JP, the global economic & political situation was reasonably stable, so we only needed to look to JP for change.

Over the past 5 years, the situation has changed dramatically, & in retrospect, selling the club to a Chinese owner was not the best decision.

IMO, Lai's hands are pretty much tied, & he can only do what he's told to do by the Chinese leadership.
It's certain that he won't be allowed to put any additional capital into the club, so we have to be self sustaining.
To make us more valuable, we have to be an EPL club, GL won't care how that happens: for him, style is not an issue, it's just results.

As you say, we're in a perfect storm.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on October 30, 2021, 03:39:53 PM
The only saving grace I will give val is look what’s happens when a manager is backed. Fulham have gambled that they will go straight back up, we’ve come down and the manager is given frees and loans ect. This owner is the deeper problem at this club and the sooner he leaves the better
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on October 30, 2021, 04:26:42 PM
I keep reading “this guy is the problem” , not unless he gives away possession easily in midfield or refuses to make critical team decisions he ain’t.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dudleylad on October 30, 2021, 04:28:59 PM
Our board and owner clearly have no ambition at this level let alone the one we are aiming to get too.

Big Val is stubborn with his selections and tactics but it doesnt take away we are battling for promotion with a thread bare squad and a forward line who beyond Robinson and Grant has no depth to account for loss or form, fitness or injuries.

I was told pre-season online that I was wrong in this assessment but for me its still not resolved.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on October 30, 2021, 05:31:47 PM
How long until we as a fan base show some balls and start telling this chancer what we think of him?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 30, 2021, 05:35:48 PM
How long until we as a fan base show some balls and start telling this chancer what we think of him?

These are Albion fans you are talking about. No chance of anything like that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on October 30, 2021, 05:36:32 PM
How long until we as a fan base show some balls and start telling this chancer what we think of him?

He doesn't care what we think of him. He wants out of the club but he won't sell until he gets somewhere near his money back. He's going nowhere for now no matter what fans do. If you don't get that clear in your mind you'll drive yourself crazy mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on October 30, 2021, 05:38:48 PM
He doesn't care what we think of him. He wants out of the club but he won't sell until he gets somewhere near his money back. He's going nowhere for now no matter what fans do. If you don't get that clear in your mind you'll drive yourself crazy mate.

Surely some negative publicity would be uncomfortable for him back in China. Could it force his hand to lower his price?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on October 30, 2021, 05:41:52 PM
Surely some negative publicity would be uncomfortable for him back in China. Could it force his hand to lower his price?

He won't give a stuff. All the moaning goes on over here he's thousands of miles away and no one in China cares about Albion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on October 30, 2021, 05:44:01 PM
He doesn't care what we think of him. He wants out of the club but he won't sell until he gets somewhere near his money back. He's going nowhere for now no matter what fans do. If you don't get that clear in your mind you'll drive yourself crazy mate.

Incorrect- as someone who has done business in China for 20 years if he loses face he will speed things up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 30, 2021, 05:45:57 PM
Incorrect- as someone who has done business in China for 20 years if he loses face he will speed things up.

I thought that but aren't the Chinese government insistant that Chinese citizens who are invested overseas don't lose money when they sell up, to bring as much money back into China as possible?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on October 30, 2021, 05:46:35 PM
Incorrect- as someone who has done business in China for 20 years if he loses face he will speed things up.

Bet you he won't. He's been desperate to sell for a couple of years and he hasn't budged a jot. Until he gets his price he's going nowhere mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on October 30, 2021, 05:51:58 PM
I thought that but aren't the Chinese government insistant that Chinese citizens who are invested overseas don't lose money when they sell up, to bring as much money back into China as possible?

Lai isn’t the owner, he’s a front man for something far darker.

He’s also in serious trouble back in China owing a lot of money to the team he’s involved in there and will be lucky if he’s not in jail.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 30, 2021, 05:54:48 PM
Lai isn’t the owner, he’s a front man for something far darker.

He’s also in serious trouble back in China owing a lot of money to the team he’s involved in there and will be lucky if he’s not in jail.


Oooh sounds genuinely juicy  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on October 30, 2021, 05:56:42 PM

Oooh sounds genuinely juicy  :o

It’s not just Covid that’s stopped him leaving China
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 30, 2021, 05:59:19 PM
It’s not just Covid that’s stopped him leaving China

Now you are making me very curious but i guess it's something that can't be discussed on here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on October 30, 2021, 06:04:54 PM
Now you are making me very curious but i guess it's something that can't be discussed on here.

He doesn’t own our club, he has no money and is in a very bad place.

I’d take league 2 if it meant getting rid. We were sold on a promise that PL survival could be done on 1/2 the income and the rest being profit, the money paid to Peace wasn’t Lai’s. Then we went down……..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 30, 2021, 06:06:14 PM
He doesn’t own our club, he has no money and is in a very bad place.

I’d take league 2 if it meant getting rid. We were sold on a promise that PL survival could be done on 1/2 the income and the rest being profit, the money paid to Peace wasn’t Lai’s. Then we went down……..

Isn't he the head of the investment group though? I suppose i am asking ultimately who decides if we sell the club? Lai or does he have to get approval from the others as well?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on October 30, 2021, 06:11:22 PM
How long until we as a fan base show some balls and start telling this chancer what we think of him?

Funny, I don’t think I’ve ever seen so much as fan-made sign stating ‘LAI OUT’ at the Hawthorn’s since the club was purchased by the Chinese back in 2016.

I could be wrong of course, but going from memory I’ve seen no real signs of fan protest against the Lai administration. Tells you all you need to know really.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on October 30, 2021, 06:13:27 PM
Isn't he the head of the investment group though? I suppose i am asking ultimately who decides if we sell the club? Lai or does he have to get approval from the others as well?

He does what he’s told, that includes from “party members”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 30, 2021, 06:16:05 PM
He does what he’s told, that includes from “party members”

I understand and that is not what i wanted to hear but it's not at all surprising.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 30, 2021, 06:16:48 PM
Imagine something akin to, a few thousand tennis balls chucked on the pitch mid game, each one having an A4 print out attached

习主席,请停止这个人(赖国钦)让伟大的中国人民难堪,让他卖掉这个历史悠久的俱乐部。谢谢

(President Xi, please stop this man (Guoachin Lai) embarrassing the great chinese people and make him sell this historic Club. Thank you)

That would get flashed around the worlds media and focus some local attention on the mans ineptitude
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 30, 2021, 06:23:41 PM
Imagine something akin to, a few thousand tennis balls chucked on the pitch mid game, each one having an A4 print out attached

习主席,请停止这个人(赖国钦)让伟大的中国人民难堪,让他卖掉这个历史悠久的俱乐部。谢谢

(President Xi, please stop this man (Guoachin Lai) embarrassing the great chinese people and make him sell this historic Club. Thank you)

That would get flashed around the worlds media and focus some local attention on the mans ineptitude

That's impressive! I did not know you knew Chinese
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 30, 2021, 06:28:17 PM
spent a lot of time out there, but no "google translate" is your friend
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 30, 2021, 06:29:58 PM
spent a lot of time out there, but no "google translate" is your friend

Well i am still impressed  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on October 30, 2021, 06:30:56 PM
more to the point
"get your balls out lads" next TV game
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on October 31, 2021, 11:09:32 AM
Please just remember not to go too far with posts about Lai guys , unless things are 100% true that is .
Lets not get this site in trouble ( no politics either thanks 8)).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on October 31, 2021, 08:37:37 PM
Comments are made about Albion fans never protesting about the owner, yet when we protest on here most of the posts are deleted, no reason given. It seems somewhat high-handed , especially when there was no abusive language used. We are supposed to enjoy a concept called freedom of speech in this country, something not enjoyed in the land of our greatly esteemed owner, but to find that particular liberty absent on a football forum, is rather sad. To have the courtesy of the reasoning for posts being removed would be something. Are they removed at the whim of any mod, or is there a permanent committee sitting, waiting to administer the ‘red card’? Should I expect excommunication?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on October 31, 2021, 10:22:07 PM
Comments are made about Albion fans never protesting about the owner, yet when we protest on here most of the posts are deleted, no reason given. It seems somewhat high-handed , especially when there was no abusive language used. We are supposed to enjoy a concept called freedom of speech in this country, something not enjoyed in the land of our greatly esteemed owner, but to find that particular liberty absent on a football forum, is rather sad. To have the courtesy of the reasoning for posts being removed would be something. Are they removed at the whim of any mod, or is there a permanent committee sitting, waiting to administer the ‘red card’? Should I expect excommunication?
As above in my previous post theres a fine line as to what puts this forum in trouble and what doesn't . We also work to a set of rules that are pinned to the top of the forum page . Theres no whim , If a post is considered to break our rules we take action .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Westie on October 31, 2021, 11:12:26 PM
As above in my previous post theres a fine line as to what puts this forum in trouble and what doesn't . We also work to a set of rules that are pinned to the top of the forum page . Theres no whim , If a post is considered to break our rules we take action .

There was nothing in my posts that would get this site ‘in trouble’, have you read any of the other forums? They are not being sued or having to fend off Chinese assassins! As far as I am aware, there isn’t one Albion supporter who doesn’t want Lai gone, so we ought to be able to say so, forcefully.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on November 01, 2021, 06:24:45 AM
There was nothing in my posts that would get this site ‘in trouble’, have you read any of the other forums? They are not being sued or having to fend off Chinese assassins! As far as I am aware, there isn’t one Albion supporter who doesn’t want Lai gone, so we ought to be able to say so, forcefully.
We aren't interested in other forums and yes there was enough to have posts removed.
If you have anymore of a issue over this you can PM myself or one of the other admin.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on November 01, 2021, 10:16:44 AM
Funny, I don’t think I’ve ever seen so much as fan-made sign stating ‘LAI OUT’ at the Hawthorn’s since the club was purchased by the Chinese back in 2016.

I could be wrong of course, but going from memory I’ve seen no real signs of fan protest against the Lai administration. Tells you all you need to know really.

There was a Lai Out banner on the Astle Gates some time back. Saw the image on Twitter. Banner/bed sheet wasn't there for long though apparently.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on November 01, 2021, 10:33:09 AM
There was nothing in my posts that would get this site ‘in trouble’, have you read any of the other forums? They are not being sued or having to fend off Chinese assassins! As far as I am aware, there isn’t one Albion supporter who doesn’t want Lai gone, so we ought to be able to say so, forcefully.

Well it depends who would replace him.  Better Guochuan than an outright asset stripper from some kleptocratic state.
I can't see a billionaire sugar daddy coming in and heaping money on us.  We're not in a trendy part of London.  Not many of the foreign rich have heard of the Black Country.  It may be a pantomime but there is no fairy godfather on the horizon.
It's a case of gradual progress I'm afraid; Chinese play the long game, 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on November 01, 2021, 10:55:34 AM
Well it depends who would replace him.  Better Guochuan than an outright asset stripper from some kleptocratic state.
I can't see a billionaire sugar daddy coming in and heaping money on us.  We're not in a trendy part of London.  Not many of the foreign rich have heard of the Black Country.  It may be a pantomime but there is no fairy godfather on the horizon.
It's a case of gradual progress I'm afraid; Chinese play the long game,
Think your right in saying there's no sugar daddy coming to rescue us. But the fact is we are not gradually progressing, quite the opposite under his ownership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on November 01, 2021, 10:59:41 AM
Think your right in saying there's no sugar daddy coming to rescue us. But the fact is we are not gradually progressing, quite the opposite under his ownership.
You need a very rich sugar daddy just to progress gradually though mate, such is the imbalance of the Premier League.
Look at what Villa and Wolves have spent just to be midtable.
Fulham's riches are plain to see now, in the Champ, but even they didn't have enough to compete in the Greed league.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on November 01, 2021, 11:43:31 AM
Id rather have lai than the owners of newcastle, if we had despots take over, id never give them a penny of my money. Would be so upset
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on November 01, 2021, 11:51:29 AM
The choice is not ours, Lai would sell in a heartbeat to the saudis and the league would sanction it.  People keep posting comparisons of owners at extremes to justify Lai. I believe there are other options but again it is not our choice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tlms-p23 on November 20, 2021, 06:32:42 PM
A lot of the blame needs to be placed at Lai's door for the current malaise. We're a club without vision and direction and there is seemingly zero interest in the club from the ownership. **** knows why he bought it? Chinese soft power expansion? No idea.

At £200m, he clearly overpaid for the club. We have a modest sized stadium and were involved in relegation battles as often as we were in the top half. £160/170m max.

So what now? The lack of infrastructure and vision means the club has drifted. Dowling was entrusted with too much responsibility and we've got an imbalanced squad as result, as well as a bizarre academy setup where it simultaneously promises much and delivers little. Dowling left and has not been replaced. 

Ken has shown his utter lack of football knowledge by employing a manager whose style is fundamentally unsuited to the playing squad, without any real investment to help him shape the squad to his needs. Sure, the football is rubbish but he's had one hand tied behind his back.

How long does this go on? We'll need to be in Europe before Lai gets £200m, and that isn't going to happen. It's stale, uninspiring and seemingly going nowhere.

A disinterested, absentee owner is not viable in football. We don't have any football knowledge in the boardroom - there is no previous experience of building a club or a culture. The club will continue to drift as long as this bloke is in charge and it's hard to foresee how/when he leaves.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 20, 2021, 06:41:38 PM
He paid 200 million, he will extremely lucky to get even half of that back with us sinking so far and so quickly.
The buck stops at his door.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on November 20, 2021, 06:51:08 PM
The club is officially screwed. We wont be going up at this rate, so more cut backs will be made, resulting in an even worse squad. I fear there are some very dark days ahead, but I've been shot down many times for saying this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 20, 2021, 07:17:13 PM
Very scary times for the club with this bloke at the helm. Not in terms of going under but in terms of where we could go.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiemart on November 20, 2021, 07:26:22 PM
He paid 200 million, he will extremely lucky to get even half of that back with us sinking so far and so quickly.
The buck stops at his door.

Lets just hope he doesn't start asset stripping the club in order to get his money back like selling the club assets like the ground, the training ground and all our better players.  If he does we could end up with nothing !!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 20, 2021, 07:39:10 PM
Lets just hope he doesn't start asset stripping the club in order to get his money back like selling the club assets like the ground, the training ground and all our better players.  If he does we could end up with nothing !!

JP sold him and us a ticket down the river.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on November 20, 2021, 07:40:39 PM
Lets just hope he doesn't start asset stripping the club in order to get his money back like selling the club assets like the ground, the training ground and all our better players.  If he does we could end up with nothing !!

Indeed, very worrying.

But I though I’d read that, under FA rules, this is not an option for owners. I could be wrong and I’m sure that the more informed members of this forum will clarify no doubt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on November 20, 2021, 07:44:04 PM

JP sold him and us a ticket down the river.

Ah yes JP. 'I will only sell to someone that can take the club forwards'?? Well JP, you did a fine job on the club and the fans didn't you. Saw the $ signs and all scruples went out the window. Yes I know any of us would have probably taken the money, but we didn't reassure the fans that he had the best interests of the club at heart. He only had 1 interest !!! And now look where we are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 20, 2021, 07:49:57 PM
We all cheered when Lai took over and hoped that we would be looking at the "Promised Land".
We all cheered with each successive replacement manager and looked forward to the "Promised land".
Did it really start with Lai, and did he just put the wrong people in charge?
He should have got a grip earlier.
Bad management in my book.
He has a chance to put it right, but he has to put his hand in his pocket to buy his way out and forward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 20, 2021, 10:02:50 PM
We all cheered when Lai took over and hoped that we would be looking at the "Promised Land".
We all cheered with each successive replacement manager and looked forward to the "Promised land".
Did it really start with Lai, and did he just put the wrong people in charge?
He should have got a grip earlier.
Bad management in my book.
He has a chance to put it right, but he has to put his hand in his pocket to buy his way out and forward.

What?

Would you like to explain this in laymans language please?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 20, 2021, 10:03:52 PM
Lai was/is/ does it matter? = the beginning of the end.

Peace took the money and ran and sold Albion fans a load of claptrap about making sure the club was only sold to someone with safe hands rather than someone who wanted to invest and move the club forwards
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on November 21, 2021, 01:02:49 AM
Ebenezer was always looking out for number 1 only saw the club as away to enrich himself nothing more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bosh on November 21, 2021, 01:46:09 AM
Sadly I bought into this being the start of a new era for the club. That and selling the cow to buy those magic beans was a week of bad mistakes. What a fool I was.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 21, 2021, 08:21:22 AM
Lai was/is/ does it matter? = the beginning of the end.

Peace took the money and ran and sold Albion fans a load of claptrap about making sure the club was only sold to someone with safe hands rather than someone who wanted to invest and move the club forwards

The beginning of the end was when ''business boy' got onto the board all those years ago, the die was cast then.

We had this debate on here a few months ago. Someone said that Peace was an astute businessman who did wonders for the club, and prior to his intervention we were run by 'well meaning amateurs'. There is an element of truth in that but many clubs are still run by 'well meaning amateurs' and are doing well. We saw some of our better football under these amateurs [the Astle/ Brown years, Ron Atkinson era, even the Megson era]. It is also true that some times it has not been so good - Buckley/Gould/Little etc, but even then we had Bob Taylor and Andy Hunt, and a day out at Wembley.

The 'well meaning amateurs' had something that went out the door when they left - integrity. They put the club before their own self interests. There are plenty of examples where very successful businessmen are currently doing the same.

If anything Lai is the hapless victim in this caper, sold a dream that didn't exist. A bit like you and I thinking about what we would do if we won the lottery. It doesn't help that even if he did want to put his hand in his pocket, his government would not allow it, but that's no excuse really, the damage was done a long long time ago.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 21, 2021, 09:37:46 AM
I dont think Lai is a victim just because he overpaid. He also saw money signs when he was taking over.

Unfortunately Lai didn't want to put the time and work in and expected a nice windfall from doing nothing but just owning the club and paying people to run it for him in the hope of selling it 5-10 years late for a dream that never happened. The people he chose, or has chosen since have been garbage time and time again sadly for us and him.

While i have no time for Peace as a person he made WBA his project. He oversaw everything like a hawk and regardless of his end intentions which were purely self-serving, WBA DID benefit from having him run us.

Of course if Lai had done the same as Peace that doesn't guarantee 100% success but i'd bet my left leg we'd be in much better place than where we are now.

I said it ages ago on here if we all had a million quid to invest and had the choice of giving it to Lai or Peace to invest with i know who i would choose hands down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on November 21, 2021, 10:51:54 AM
The sad thing is I thought there were interested parties who would come in when we went down, nothing has happened and the chatter is now nonexistent.

He isn’t going to get a quarter of what he paid for Albion back so it looks like we’re stuck with this crop of utter amateurs for quite a while. So very depressing and I do fear for my club now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on November 21, 2021, 11:16:33 AM
The sad thing is I thought there were interested parties who would come in when we went down, nothing has happened and the chatter is now nonexistent.

He isn’t going to get a quarter of what he paid for Albion back so it looks like we’re stuck with this crop of utter amateurs for quite a while. So very depressing and I do fear for my club now.

From what I gather, Lai over paid about 20% too much for the club when he first bought it. Obviously, buying football clubs isn't like buying houses and there's a lot of intricacies etc which make them harder to value. Still, it seems he overpaid.
Instead of selling at a loss, I read that he still wants to see at the price he paid for the club. Of course, this is practically impossible as we're now in a worse division with worse players, more debt etc.

I can see us becoming the next Blackburn over the years and that possibly means a stay in League One which is depressing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on November 21, 2021, 11:35:31 AM
I can see us becoming the next Blackburn over the years and that possibly means a stay in League One which is depressing.

That's what I'm fearing now. Very much so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on November 21, 2021, 12:43:36 PM
He will be lucky to give the club away soon. JP did a fine number on Lai. Lai was like a kid in a sweet shop, and the owner was offering him all the sweets in the shop, with the promise that he would get his money back, and some!! Lai has to take the blame for being fooled, he clearly didn't have the right advisors around him that knew the game in England. JP knew he'd never get 'real' investors at that price, so he gobbled Lai up and spat him out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on November 21, 2021, 01:07:29 PM
Even if we do manage it back to the Prem there is no chance that he’ll get his money back. He’s got to take a substantial hit or we are stuck with him for the long term.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 21, 2021, 01:12:58 PM
Even if we do manage it back to the Prem there is no chance that he’ll get his money back. He’s got to take a substantial hit or we are stuck with him for the long term.

Lai doesnt expect to get his money back by various reports but he will get a good chunk of it back and hopefully flip off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 21, 2021, 05:51:37 PM
Around the time of the sale of the club to Lai, there was a fairly strong rumour that JP had turned down an offer of around £40 million from Fosun.

Any thoughts on how accurate those rumours were?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 21, 2021, 05:58:42 PM
Around the time of the sale of the club to Lai, there was a fairly strong rumour that JP had turned down an offer of around £40 million from Fosun.

Any thoughts on how accurate those rumours were?

I don't recall any specific details of the value of the offers but Fosun did ask apparently and basically laughed at JP asking price which is fair enough.

It has been stated more than once that there were offers made of around 120-130m by various investment companies and they promised to put figures of around 50m+ into the club on top as part of the deals but JP turned them down as he didn't want the clubs future risked  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on November 21, 2021, 08:16:28 PM
Around the time of the sale of the club to Lai, there was a fairly strong rumour that JP had turned down an offer of around £40 million from Fosun.

Any thoughts on how accurate those rumours were?

I’m not surprised Peace would have turned that down!  That was about 25% of what is was really worth even if Lai wasn’t in the picture.

Wolves were cheap because of their financial position.  We were profitable and had no debt.   If Wolves had also been profitable with no debt they’d have been worth £200m+ too.  Lai paid top whack and didn’t realise it. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on November 22, 2021, 08:18:25 AM
Around the time of the sale of the club to Lai, there was a fairly strong rumour that JP had turned down an offer of around £40 million from Fosun.

Any thoughts on how accurate those rumours were?

What are you suggesting, that if this was true he should have taken a £140m - £160m hit on what he could have got from this clown we have now?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 22, 2021, 08:48:31 AM
Around the time of the sale of the club to Lai, there was a fairly strong rumour that JP had turned down an offer of around £40 million from Fosun.

Any thoughts on how accurate those rumours were?

Not even sure whether it’s true to be honest - there was absolutely nothing in the media to support it.

It almost feels it’s now a stick to beat Peace with given our takeover has gone tits up whilst Wolves has been relatively fruitful.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 22, 2021, 08:50:26 AM
What are you suggesting, that if this was true he should have taken a £140m - £160m hit on what he could have got from this clown we have now?

I'm not suggesting anything, just pointing out the differences in valuations.

Both from Chinese businesses, one from a huge corporation, the other from an ambitious medium sized businessman.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 22, 2021, 09:00:42 AM
Not even sure whether it’s true to be honest - there was absolutely nothing in the media to support it.

It almost feels it’s now a stick to beat Peace with given our takeover has gone tits up whilst Wolves has been relatively fruitful.

It wasn't intended to be a stick, if somebody wants to pay £180 to £200 million for my business I'd take it.

On paper, the Eco town project looked like a great idea, & as I understand it, it's still part of the Chinese policy, but on the back burner at the moment.

As I've replied on another post, if the Fosun rumour was true, it's remarkable how different the valuation of the bids were.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 22, 2021, 09:22:08 AM
This is what was reported in June 2015;

However, I understand Peace is still immersed in dialogue with a number of foreign investors from China, America and the Far East to hand over his 88 per cent stake in Albion.

Peace had set a bargaining price of around £150 million for his shares and I understand he believes a deal can be finalised before Albion’s players report back for duty on June 29 before flying to Austria for a training camp.


So it is clear that other parties were interested and Peace did enter into an exclusivity arrangement with an interested party which he then terminated in July 2015. Part of his statement is as follows;

 â€œI have today brought to a close the period of exclusivity announced on July 3 and suspended negotiations with the interested party involved over the sale of West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd,” Peace said in a statement released on the club’s website. “I entered into an exclusivity arrangement in good faith after agreeing terms for the sale but it is now clear to me that this potential purchaser is unable to fulfil the terms of that agreement at this time.”

The offer from Fosun has only ever been a rumour, but given that we were for sale at the time they eventually acquired the other lot, it is not unreasonable to assume that they made an enquiry. However, there is no evidence to support either this, or the reported figure they may or may not have offered.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on November 22, 2021, 10:00:26 AM
I'm not suggesting anything, just pointing out the differences in valuations.

Both from Chinese businesses, one from a huge corporation, the other from an ambitious medium sized businessman.

Sorry, I’m with you  :D

Thought that you were having a pop at him for not taking £40m when he knew he could have got £180-200m
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 22, 2021, 11:26:53 AM
This is what was reported in June 2015;

However, I understand Peace is still immersed in dialogue with a number of foreign investors from China, America and the Far East to hand over his 88 per cent stake in Albion.

Peace had set a bargaining price of around £150 million for his shares and I understand he believes a deal can be finalised before Albion’s players report back for duty on June 29 before flying to Austria for a training camp.


So it is clear that other parties were interested and Peace did enter into an exclusivity arrangement with an interested party which he then terminated in July 2015. Part of his statement is as follows;

 â€œI have today brought to a close the period of exclusivity announced on July 3 and suspended negotiations with the interested party involved over the sale of West Bromwich Albion Holdings Ltd,” Peace said in a statement released on the club’s website. “I entered into an exclusivity arrangement in good faith after agreeing terms for the sale but it is now clear to me that this potential purchaser is unable to fulfil the terms of that agreement at this time.”

The offer from Fosun has only ever been a rumour, but given that we were for sale at the time they eventually acquired the other lot, it is not unreasonable to assume that they made an enquiry. However, there is no evidence to support either this, or the reported figure they may or may not have offered.

That's interesting skyclad, it's the first time I've seen any evidence of the figure that JP was looking for.

Where were those quotes from please?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 22, 2021, 11:29:42 AM
That's interesting skyclad, it's the first time I've seen any evidence of the figure that JP was looking for.

Where were those quotes from please?

There you go John

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-bromwich-albion-latest-potential-9388616

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jul/24/west-brom-buyer-talks-suspended
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 22, 2021, 12:39:04 PM
There you go John

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-bromwich-albion-latest-potential-9388616

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jul/24/west-brom-buyer-talks-suspended

Thanks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on November 23, 2021, 09:56:06 PM
Hopefully tonight is the start of direct action.

We need to amplify this in front of his puppet Ken on Friday night and harass him so he knows.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 23, 2021, 10:00:03 PM
Think it's all too little, too late. The rot is truly set in.

Nice to finally hear something against him though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 23, 2021, 10:00:47 PM
He won’t even know we’re playing.

They want out themselves - there just doesn’t appear to be a buyer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on November 23, 2021, 10:06:03 PM
He won’t even know we’re playing.

They want out themselves - there just doesn’t appear to be a buyer.

Not for the price the owners are asking.

It took Peace a while to find these numpties and that was when the Albion were a more attractive prospect.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on November 23, 2021, 10:07:09 PM
He won’t even know we’re playing.

They want out themselves - there just doesn’t appear to be a buyer.

His mate Ken is at the games, make his ears ring and it’ll get back.

Make them lose face, that’ll hurt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on November 23, 2021, 10:07:42 PM
Not for the price the owners are asking.

It took Peace a while to find these numpties and that was when the Albion were a more attractive prospect.

Every day they’re here it’s worth less.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on November 23, 2021, 10:11:38 PM
He pretty obviously wants out and has done for a while. There’s no buyers though, anyone who would be interested wouldn’t pay anywhere near what he wants and the vast majority of them would be the same or worse options than Lai. We’re pretty much stuck.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: PartisanBaggie on November 23, 2021, 10:14:46 PM
Every day they’re here it’s worth less.

It’s the one thing I’ll give the Dingles credit for: when they want an owner out…boy oh boy do they turn hostile.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 23, 2021, 10:14:54 PM
If I had paid £200m for a football club then I wouldn’t be accepting a cut down price because some folk are chanting about the board.

He’s going nowhere until someone coughs up a substantial portion of what he’s paid.

It’s rubbish. But that’s where we are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on November 23, 2021, 10:32:05 PM
If I had paid £200m for a football club then I wouldn’t be accepting a cut down price because some folk are chanting about the board.

He’s going nowhere until someone coughs up a substantial portion of what he’s paid.

It’s rubbish. But that’s where we are.

Or you cut your losses, because he sure ain’t got the money to build it to be worth anywhere near that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on November 24, 2021, 05:59:20 AM
I wonder what he thinks, or if he thinks, or if he is remotely interested
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on November 24, 2021, 07:09:58 AM
we will see his intentions come February
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 24, 2021, 09:17:54 AM
we will see his intentions come February

We already know what they are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DaveWBA on November 24, 2021, 09:29:48 AM
We already know what they are.

I genuinely don't reckon he knows there is a transfer window.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on November 24, 2021, 09:50:44 AM
We already know what they are.

Sell Johnstone. Pocket money. Loan other teams rubbish.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 24, 2021, 02:37:13 PM
I'd really love to know why Mark Jenkins retired.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on November 24, 2021, 03:29:28 PM
If we are bemoaning the loss of Mark Jenkins we have hit bottom
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 24, 2021, 03:37:48 PM
I'd really love to know why Mark Jenkins retired.

I think he saw this coming John
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 24, 2021, 04:26:47 PM
If we are bemoaning the loss of Mark Jenkins we have hit bottom

Not sure how you reach that conclusion, he ran a tight ship, but was a highly experienced football administrator.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on November 24, 2021, 04:31:09 PM
Not sure how you reach that conclusion, he ran a tight ship, but was a highly experienced football administrator.

Fully agree baggiejohn and wish he was still in post, as he had an understanding, both financially and management wise, of how a football club should be run at our level
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 24, 2021, 04:36:44 PM
Not exactly a massive fan of Jenkins but knew more about footy than those left behind. Him and Sam done a runner. As others said, they saw the writing on the wall.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 24, 2021, 04:42:05 PM
Not sure how you reach that conclusion, he ran a tight ship, but was a highly experienced football administrator.

I for one would appreciate him casting his independent eye over our books at the moment.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on November 24, 2021, 04:58:22 PM
If we didn't spend money on a decent striker during the summer, what makes anyone think we will put our hand in our pocket in January? That would make a mockery of not buying anyone 4 months ago. Thats like shutting the door after the horse has bolted. What a **** poor run club we have become. Utter joke!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbastrollers on November 24, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
If we didn't spend money on a decent striker during the summer, what makes anyone think we will put our hand in our pocket in January? That would make a mockery of not buying anyone 4 months ago. Thats like shutting the door after the horse has bolted. What a p8ss poor run club we have become. Utter joke!!

The horse is still in his box - albeit on his knees!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on November 24, 2021, 06:45:05 PM
Not exactly a massive fan of Jenkins but knew more about footy than those left behind. Him and Sam done a runner. As others said, they saw the writing on the wall.
And therein lies a massive part of the problem . Just who is supposedly running the club . This Ken bloke was going to be but we haven’t heard a squeak out of him since the season started , who does that leave with any broad experience of a football club ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tlms-p23 on November 24, 2021, 08:42:53 PM
I wonder how this absentee ownership will resolve itself. Apparently the away fans were singing ‘sack the board’ towards the end of the game last night.

If the poor performances continue up to/beyond Xmas, I can see things turning nasty q quickly. I think most people can see the performances are a symptom of a disunited club behind the scenes, without the appropriate infrastructure to succeed in the modern game.

First time since Ashworth joined that we haven’t had a Director of Football, or similar, in place. It’s almost a given in the modern game that you have a link between the boardroom and the manager. Lai evidently doesn’t know enough about football to know that Ken hanging around the club for 4yrs as a commercial presence doesn’t qualify him to take the lead on football matters/recruitment/squad building. This is massively concerning.

In the unlikely event of us going up this season it will be in spite of the infrastructure rather than because of it. Can see things coming to a head long before the end of the season in the form of vocal dissent against the ownership - especially if results and performances continue. (Not that it’s likely to do anything. Doubt Lai knows when/where/who we are playing).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 24, 2021, 09:05:19 PM
And therein lies a massive part of the problem . Just who is supposedly running the club . This Ken bloke was going to be but we haven’t heard a squeak out of him since the season started , who does that leave with any broad experience of a football club ?


I think its anyone who fancies it at the moment. No one with a clue about football is in place currently anyway
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 24, 2021, 09:14:56 PM
I wonder how this absentee ownership will resolve itself. Apparently the away fans were singing ‘sack the board’ towards the end of the game last night.

If the poor performances continue up to/beyond Xmas, I can see things turning nasty q quickly. I think most people can see the performances are a symptom of a disunited club behind the scenes, without the appropriate infrastructure to succeed in the modern game.

First time since Ashworth joined that we haven’t had a Director of Football, or similar, in place. It’s almost a given in the modern game that you have a link between the boardroom and the manager. Lai evidently doesn’t know enough about football to know that Ken hanging around the club for 4yrs as a commercial presence doesn’t qualify him to take the lead on football matters/recruitment/squad building. This is massively concerning.

In the unlikely event of us going up this season it will be in spite of the infrastructure rather than because of it. Can see things coming to a head long before the end of the season in the form of vocal dissent against the ownership - especially if results and performances continue. (Not that it’s likely to do anything. Doubt Lai knows when/where/who we are playing).

I think I'd be a bit careful on this one:


We had a period when Pulis was Head Coach when we didn't have a DoF.

After DA & RH left, RH recommended Terry Burton as our DoF, who in turn brought in Alan Irvine. Both appointments were sanctioned by JP ( who was supposedly protecting his own interests).

Bear in mind JP was being advised by Mark Jenkins & Richard Garlick, both of whom had significant experience in EPL & EFL.

Any senior appointment carries some risk, but if experienced guys can't get it right, then for our board it's pinning the tail on the donkey.

For what it's worth, I believe the flatter structure under Ken is the way to go at the moment, in that way, the CEO has more control.

I believe it's fair to say that VI will be judged on results, & more importantly on trends.
If the current trend continues it's likely his job will be at risk.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 24, 2021, 10:14:27 PM
He is a "no where man".
Terrible businessman.Clueless and useless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 25, 2021, 08:16:02 AM
He is a "no where man".
Terrible businessman.Clueless and useless.

I'd say somebody who made enough out of a landscaping business to enable him to put £30 million into the purchase of a football club is pretty good at business.
 
Lai is, at the very least, a front man for a consortium who are the major shareholders & have controlling interest of WBAFC. He is not an employee & therefore doesn't have to be visible.

On the other hand, Li Piyue as Chairman, who it's understood is a shareholder in the consortium, & Xu Ke, who is the CEO of WBAFC, should be visible.

As I understand it, there's an Albion Assembly meeting next week, I'd be really surprised if the issue of visibility doesn't come up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 25, 2021, 09:30:52 AM
I'd say somebody who made enough out of a landscaping business to enable him to put £30 million into the purchase of a football club is pretty good at business.
 
Lai is, at the very least, a front man for a consortium who are the major shareholders & have controlling interest of WBAFC. He is not an employee & therefore doesn't have to be visible.

On the other hand, Li Piyue as Chairman, who it's understood is a shareholder in the consortium, & Xu Ke, who is the CEO of WBAFC, should be visible.

As I understand it, there's an Albion Assembly meeting next week, I'd be really surprised if the issue of visibility doesn't come up.

Cannot see that happening John........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 25, 2021, 10:28:19 AM
Cannot see that happening John........

We'll see, but in the current climate, visibility has to be addressed.

The Board might not be doing what we want them to do, but they're not stupid, & the Assembly meeting gives them an opportunity to close the distance between them & the fans.

If they chose to miss the opportunity, then I believe we're on a very slippery slope.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 25, 2021, 10:36:22 AM
If we didn't spend money on a decent striker during the summer, what makes anyone think we will put our hand in our pocket in January? That would make a mockery of not buying anyone 4 months ago. Thats like shutting the door after the horse has bolted. What a **** poor run club we have become. Utter joke!!

Maybe clubs were looking for more money for a player in the final year of their contract than we wanted to pay. By waiting until January they are even nearer the end of their contract. It's the last chance for a selling club to be able to get some money in before the player leaves for free in the Summer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 25, 2021, 12:11:04 PM
There is a severe lack of football intelligence at this club and operating with Li Piqyue and a wet behind the ears Ken is not the way to proceed.

This football club lives from day to day - no joined up thinking, no forward planning. It’s pretty much why we live on a list of others cast offs when it comes to recruitment.

We’ve pretty much handed the keys to Ismael to do everything from first team affairs to recruitment.

What’s the plan if we go up? There isn’t one.

What’s the plan if we don’t go up? There isn’t one.

Just continue to live from day to day.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 25, 2021, 12:55:21 PM
There is a severe lack of football intelligence at this club and operating with Li Piqyue and a wet behind the ears Ken is not the way to proceed.

This football club lives from day to day - no joined up thinking, no forward planning. It’s pretty much why we live on a list of others cast offs when it comes to recruitment.

We’ve pretty much handed the keys to Ismael to do everything from first team affairs to recruitment.

What’s the plan if we go up? There isn’t one.

What’s the plan if we don’t go up? There isn’t one.

Just continue to live from day to day.

Someone's a bit grumpy today..... ;D

I agree BTW
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on November 25, 2021, 11:24:12 PM
Cannot see that happening John........

Woosh!

Best post I’ve read in ages!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 25, 2021, 11:39:59 PM
Woosh!

Best post I’ve read in ages!


Pleased someone got it😂
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on November 26, 2021, 08:51:00 AM
There is a severe lack of football intelligence at this club and operating with Li Piqyue and a wet behind the ears Ken is not the way to proceed.

This football club lives from day to day - no joined up thinking, no forward planning. It’s pretty much why we live on a list of others cast offs when it comes to recruitment.

We’ve pretty much handed the keys to Ismael to do everything from first team affairs to recruitment.

What’s the plan if we go up? There isn’t one.

What’s the plan if we don’t go up? There isn’t one.

Just continue to live from day to day.
That would suggest we have a plan for today, I'm not sure even that's true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 26, 2021, 09:58:48 AM

Pleased someone got it😂

Yep, got to admit, I missed it  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on November 26, 2021, 10:43:58 PM
Yep, got to admit, I missed it  :D

It's easy to miss an invisibility joke  ;D

For me, Lai is the one that is questionable along with the board. Val has been hung out to dry!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on November 26, 2021, 11:10:34 PM
He is probably even now thinking, third place, good chance to make it...

THAT is how much grasp I think he has on the game.

What a ***** businessman he is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OverLandAndSea on November 26, 2021, 11:22:38 PM
I remember Paul Williams. He at leat chipped in and was on £200 a week. M

Hugill is pathetic. Absolutely shameful
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on November 29, 2021, 10:17:32 AM
A demonstration against the clubs ownership and board is planned to take place before the Reading game on 11th December at 1:30 PM. The demonstrators will meet at the main gates to the East Stand.

Not sure it will make any difference to the owner and the board, but it allows fans the opportunity to show and voice their discontent with the way the club is being run.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on November 29, 2021, 10:20:45 AM
A demonstration against the clubs ownership and board is planned to take place before the Reading game on 11th December at 1:30 PM. The demonstrators will meet at the main gates to the East Stand.

Not sure it will make any difference to the owner and the board, but it allows fans the opportunity to show and voice their discontent with the way the club is being run.

I think this is the only way to force the Lai hand, publicly he won't like how this looks back home so we'll have to hope it is picked up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 29, 2021, 10:22:44 AM
A demonstration against the clubs ownership and board is planned to take place before the Reading game on 11th December at 1:30 PM. The demonstrators will meet at the main gates to the East Stand.

Not sure it will make any difference to the owner and the board, but it allows fans the opportunity to show and voice their discontent with the way the club is being run.

For me this is the best thing to do rather than booing at the end of a game. The booing can be taken as a criticism of the manager/team rather than the board. I understand sometimes the booing is for the team/manager though.
Chants of sack the board however at the end of a game more appropriate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on November 29, 2021, 10:55:06 AM
Great stuff, more room at the bar. Cheers, hic  8) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on November 29, 2021, 11:02:24 AM
I think this is the only way to force the Lai hand, publicly he won't like how this looks back home so we'll have to hope it is picked up.

It wont make the slightest difference unless someone comes up with a viable amount to buy him out. :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 29, 2021, 11:51:18 AM
This came up on Social Media again yesterday, it's quite a good reference point from August/ September this year

Quote
Where has the money gone?


That is the question being asked by Albion fans following the closure of the transfer window.

The Baggies signed six players throughout the summer – each one a free transfer or loan.

And that means, quite rightly, fans want answers at the perceived lack of spending – with the club in receipt of parachute payments while star player Matheus Pereira was also sold.

Of course, the summer window has been played out on the back of the coronavirus pandemic – everyone understands that.



But it’s the sale of Pereira and those parachute payments that have left supporters angry and confused.

It’s important to note Albion, as a general rule, are cautious spenders.

Owner Guochuan Lai will not invest any of his own money and there is a feeling at the top of the club that, in the past, they haven’t spent money well.

That was particularly true in the summer of 2017 when the Baggies’ net spend of £42.8million was the sixth highest in the Premier League. That year they were relegated



Sales

The Express & Star understands Albion expected their transfer kitty to be significantly boosted by the sales of Pereira and Sam Johnstone this summer.

Johnstone, of course, has stayed with everyone hopeful he will now sign a new deal.

But while Pereira did leave for Al Hilal, he left for significantly less than was expected.
While it has never been confirmed, the Express & Star understands the Saudi Arabian side landed the Brazilian in a £17million deal.

But the structure of that deal sees Al Hilal pay Albion £4.25million a year for four years.

The reality is the Baggies have hardly seen their transfer war chest boosted at all.

In terms of parachute payments, Albion are set to receive £40million this year, a drop on other years because of the pandemic.

But that payment from the Premier League is made in two instalments.

Albion received 60 per cent of it – £24million – in July. But the rest will arrive later in the season.

Nevertheless, £24million is still a significant sum of cash.

So where have Albion spent?

The club paid £2million in compensation to land boss Valerien Ismael from Barnsley.

Additional compensation was also paid to the Tykes to land members of his backroom team.

Loan fees were paid to bring in Matt Clarke, Jordan Hugill and Jayson Molumby.

Free agent arrivals Alex Mowatt and Adam Reach received signing on fees.

Agents were also paid for all of those deals.

Transfer instalments have been paid to both Huddersfield and West Ham for Karlan Grant and Grady Diangana – deals that were done last summer but which Albion are committed to over the next few years.

The Baggies have also had to set money aside for Molumby – with his loan move highly likely to become a permanent transfer.

All those things though pale into insignificance when it comes to Albion’s biggest outlay: Wages.

The Express & Star understands Albion have the second biggest wage budget in the division – with only Fulham spending more.

Increasingly in the Football League, clubs are spending more on wages than they are spending on transfer fees.

The last time Albion were in the Championship, their wage bill for all staff was £59.7million.

It is understood to be even higher now with the likes of Matt Phillips, Kyle Bartley and Darnell Furlong having all recently put pen to paper on new long-term deals.

Because the club has multiple players on long-term contracts – with Grant, Diangana and Callum Robinson among them – it is understood Albion have also set money aside in case they aren’t promoted in the next two years.

The aim is very much to return to the Premier League as quickly as possible. But if Albion don’t, and there are no guarantees, they want to ensure they can still spend big on wages in the 2023/24 season – when they won’t be in receipt of parachute payments any more.

The Express & Star understands Albion’s wage bill is now a similar figure to the club’s revenue.

That is perhaps the most important point of all.

There was some wriggle room to make another addition last month if Ismael truly felt the squad needed it.

But Albion are a club without an overdraft.

That is something they are particularly proud about, especially when the club’s latest published accounts – for the 2019/20 promotion winning season – showed they made a loss of £23.7million.

We probably won’t see the accounts for last season – when fans attended just one match at The Hawthorns – until March next year.

All these factors go someway to explaining why Albion haven’t spent a transfer fee this summer.

It’s a choice the club has made.

And it is frustrating for fans, especially when they see clubs like Bournemouth splash out £4million on deadline day.

The bottom line, though, is Albion are running a tight ship.

That will not change while Lai is owner.

And the outpouring of anger that arrived on social media on Tuesday wasn’t actually because the Baggies haven’t paid a transfer fee, it was because Lai is continuing to hold Albion back by not investing his own money – although the Express & Star understands he has not taken money out either.

What also angered Albion’s fans was CEO Xu Ke – who is known as Ken – describing the budget as ‘healthy.’

Many people felt that implied Albion would be significant spenders this summer.

Ken did make that comment at a time when the club expected both Pereira and Johnstone to be sold.

But it was a clever choice of word – with any club operating without the need of an overdraft following the pandemic in a ‘healthy’ position.

The truth is Albion are never going to be able to spend what fans crave while Lai is owner. The quicker he sells the better.

But there are still plenty of positives.

Ismael has built a squad where – with the exception of right wing-back – there are at least two senior players for each position.

The boss has also built an outstanding team spirit and has all his players believing in his high energy, high intensity style of play.

Albion have also won their last four games and sit joint top of the Championship.

It really has been a fantastic start to the season. A number of fans would like to see more cash spent.

But this squad, with Ismael’s guidance, should be good enough to continue to push for automatic promotion.


By Joseph Masi

Football MMPJ

West Bromwich Albion Reporter



Read More here https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2021/09/02/no-big-fees-as-west-brom-play-the-long-game-in-window/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2021/09/02/no-big-fees-as-west-brom-play-the-long-game-in-window/)


Thought this bit was particularly relevant

Quote
Because the club has multiple players on long-term contracts – with Grant, Diangana and Callum Robinson among them – it is understood Albion have also set money aside in case they aren’t promoted in the next two years.

The aim is very much to return to the Premier League as quickly as possible. But if Albion don’t, and there are no guarantees, they want to ensure they can still spend big on wages in the 2023/24 season – when they won’t be in receipt of parachute payments any more./quote]


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on November 29, 2021, 12:30:32 PM
So basically, we are poor now because we have too many poor players on long, high paid contracts and we can't spend, in order to be able to carry on paying poor players, high paid contracts when the parachute payments stop?

Makes sense.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on November 29, 2021, 12:46:09 PM
This came up on Social Media again yesterday, it's quite a good reference point from August/ September this year


Read More here https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2021/09/02/no-big-fees-as-west-brom-play-the-long-game-in-window/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2021/09/02/no-big-fees-as-west-brom-play-the-long-game-in-window/)


Thought this bit was particularly relevant

Quote
Because the club has multiple players on long-term contracts – with Grant, Diangana and Callum Robinson among them – it is understood Albion have also set money aside in case they aren’t promoted in the next two years.

The aim is very much to return to the Premier League as quickly as possible. But if Albion don’t, and there are no guarantees, they want to ensure they can still spend big on wages in the 2023/24 season – when they won’t be in receipt of parachute payments any more.

Thanks for that John. I find it very sobering and does, for me at least, answer the question as to why we have not spent more.... the money simply is not there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: brummyroader on November 29, 2021, 01:19:01 PM
The club is being run the same as the JP era regarding finance going in and out. Just because on the pitch it's not going how we thought/want not sure where ideas of a demonstration have risen from.

Lai being top of the tree has been let down and been negligent with decisions with personnel who are running day to day no doubt. But he's overseeing a large wage bill in order to give us the best opportunity to get back up. Whether you agree with that or not he's not taking money out the club, if we were top 2 or even within 4/5 points of them this protest wouldn't be happening IMO. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on November 29, 2021, 02:26:12 PM
So, the way I read that big Masi article is that the £17 million received for Pereira (in 4 instalments) is simply paying the massive wages of several players not fit to lace his boots. You reap what you sow.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 29, 2021, 02:37:36 PM
A demonstration against the clubs ownership and board is planned to take place before the Reading game on 11th December at 1:30 PM. The demonstrators will meet at the main gates to the East Stand.

Not sure it will make any difference to the owner and the board, but it allows fans the opportunity to show and voice their discontent with the way the club is being run.

Who is organising this AF?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on November 29, 2021, 03:01:07 PM
What exactly is the protest about?
If Lai is not taking money out then is it about him not putting any in?
or
Is it about recruitment?
Or
Just the fact that he's not around?

Need to know what to put on me bedsheet. :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on November 29, 2021, 03:23:55 PM
So basically, we are poor now because we have too many poor players on long, high paid contracts and we can't spend, in order to be able to carry on paying poor players, high paid contracts when the parachute payments stop?

Makes sense.

This. Why did any of Phillips, Bartley and Furlong get long term deals?

None of those three are good enough for where we want to be. So either a) we do well and have players not good enough or b) we slump and have three players on long term deals we can't afford. Excellent.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on November 29, 2021, 03:37:34 PM
Who is organising this AF?

Hi Clive, My son phoned me earlier this morning and said he'd seen several Twitter accounts promoting the event.

He gave me all the details and said that a big flag was being made up for the demo and asked other fans to get their bedsheets  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 29, 2021, 05:42:25 PM
He is running the club exactly how he said he would.  At least he’s kept his promise on that front.

The downside is that he has employed some truly incompetent people who have ruined his investment.

I still cannot understand why he thought purchasing this football club was a good idea.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 29, 2021, 09:26:34 PM
He is running the club exactly how he said he would.  At least he’s kept his promise on that front.

The downside is that he has employed some truly incompetent people who have ruined his investment.

I still cannot understand why he thought purchasing this football club was a good idea.

Wasn't it all to do with using the Premier League brand to promote the "Villages" they were developing on the back of the rising popularity of the game in China? Then the Chinese government fell out of love with us, got the hump around money leaving the country and it all went tits up.

But yep, spot on.  You are basically organising a demonstration against an owner who has kept to his word.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 29, 2021, 09:57:12 PM
Wasn't it all to do with using the Premier League brand to promote the "Villages" they were developing on the back of the rising popularity of the game in China? Then the Chinese government fell out of love with us, got the hump around money leaving the country and it all went tits up.

But yep, spot on.  You are basically organising a demonstration against an owner who has kept to his word.

HS2 was the other point..

Cant find the article now but it claimed HS2 was the reason all four midland clubs had Chinese ownership
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 29, 2021, 10:00:20 PM
Hi Clive, My son phoned me earlier this morning and said he'd seen several Twitter accounts promoting the event.

He gave me all the details and said that a big flag was being made up for the demo and asked other fans to get their bedsheets  :D

Thanks Dave😉

Sounds organised, I don’t use Twitter so just wondered

Regards

Kev😂
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on November 29, 2021, 10:11:37 PM
Thanks Dave😉

Sounds organised, I don’t use Twitter so just wondered

Regards

Kev😂

Oops!  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: swad35 on November 29, 2021, 11:15:38 PM
Personally not a fan of demos. I think they can defeat the purpose they are designed for. If we assume the club are aware of some fan’s frustration about investment, having small numbers for a demo will be counterproductive I.e the sentiment isn’t that bad. Also demos are least likely to convince a Chinese businessman to sell up but as if for example financial loss is more likely.

I believe vote with your feet, tickets shirt sales etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieNick on November 30, 2021, 12:34:10 AM
Neither strategies will work.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 30, 2021, 08:50:01 AM
Personally not a fan of demos. I think they can defeat the purpose they are designed for. If we assume the club are aware of some fan’s frustration about investment, having small numbers for a demo will be counterproductive I.e the sentiment isn’t that bad. Also demos are least likely to convince a Chinese businessman to sell up but as if for example financial loss is more likely.

I believe vote with your feet, tickets shirt sales etc.

Your second point will happen naturally anyway, there are already some on here who make it known that they cannot be bothered and are doing something else.....
When you think about it, many of us show angst against the team and the club every time we are watching them. The bloke behind me shouts  'yam rubbish al-bey-un' on a regular basis [and sometimes that's before the teams have come out!], every poor pass or lost tackle is met with a quiet 'FFS', or a dismissive wave of the hands in the air with a similar profanity by many of us. All this happens because we are not playing well, or we are frustrated with the tactics, or we are just getting outplayed. A lot of this is down to the manager and board.
I don't for one second think that a protest will do much good. I do wonder whether Lai knows the depth of feeling against the club by the fans, and probably thinks that Ken and Li Piyue are doing a sterling job running his 'investment'. So it just maybe that a few fans turn up and demonstrate their dissatisfaction before the game [and the banners are in chinese], this may just get the attention of the Chinese Authority. Now we all know that the Chinese do not like dissenting voices, and may give Lai some 'words of advice' that he cannot ignore.
A couple of weeks ago Bomber Brown stated on radio WM that in his opinion the Chinese do not care one bit about the heritage of the club or the fans, and that is from an idol and man on the inside. All they want is their money back, so the quicker they are gone the better, and if this helps in any way then I am for it.
For me booing at half time can be counter productive. Whilst many see it as dissent against the owner and board, it must get to the team. So for me protests before and after the game are acceptable, but not when we are playing.
I may join in on Saturday week, last time I protested was in 1979 [?] when they closed the rock club Bogarts in town!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on November 30, 2021, 10:00:55 PM
The best and only way to get these clowns out is to get behind the team and manager and be promoted, it may never happen but the protests won't achieve anything but more unrest in the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ross on November 30, 2021, 10:49:00 PM
Li and the rest of his cronies sit in Halfords, so I guess it needs to be relocated  😂
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on November 30, 2021, 11:44:54 PM
Lai and his cronies sit in China so a bit bigger relocation needed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on December 01, 2021, 08:36:11 AM
Please no bedsheets.....what have we become?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on December 01, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
It wont make the slightest difference unless someone comes up with a viable amount to buy him out. :o

I've been telling the organisers this for the last fortnight on Facebook.

I think they've just had enough and feel the need to be doing something. No harm in the protest as long as they do it properly and it doesn't descend into silliness.

I'll probably join the protest myself, for all the good it will do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on December 01, 2021, 10:06:02 AM
I've been telling the organisers this for the last fortnight on Facebook.

I think they've just had enough and feel the need to be doing something. No harm in the protest as long as they do it properly and it doesn't descend into silliness.

I'll probably join the protest myself, for all the good it will do.

Stay in the pub, it will do you more good than standing in the cold with a few other people holding a bedsheet. ;)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on December 02, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Hope it’s a bigger turn out than the last protest during clueless’s reign that was embarrassing for the bed sheet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on December 03, 2021, 02:04:16 PM
Protesting against an absent owner, who probably doesn’t watch the games from china, seems like tilting at windmills.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 03, 2021, 02:57:43 PM
Protesting against an absent owner, who probably doesn’t watch the games from china, seems like tilting at windmills.

Maybe but any publicity will get back to him, and the Chinese authorities will pick up on any anti China dissent too. Not saying it will make any difference but at least someone is trying....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on December 03, 2021, 03:16:32 PM
Can someone confirm exactly what we are protesting?

I've got me bedsheet and paint at the ready, I'm just not sure what to write?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 03, 2021, 03:56:10 PM
Can someone confirm exactly what we are protesting?

I've got me bedsheet and paint at the ready, I'm just not sure what to write?

A Flag has been made up for the demo that has:-

"SACK THE BOARD"

"5 YEARS TO RUIN US!"
"A LIFE TIME TO BREAK US!"
"ALBION FOREVER!"

"NO MONEY!"
"NO INVESTMENT!"
" NO IDEA!"

"LAI OUT!!!"

Hope that helps  ;D

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 03, 2021, 04:05:10 PM
A Flag has been made up for the demo that has:-

"SACK THE BOARD"

"5 YEARS TO RUIN US!"
"A LIFE TIME TO BREAK US!"
"ALBION FOREVER!"

"NO MONEY!"
"NO INVESTMENT!"
" NO IDEA!"

"LAI OUT!!!"

Hope that helps  ;D

Any in Chinese Dave?😂
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on December 03, 2021, 04:06:12 PM
A Flag has been made up for the demo that has:-

"SACK THE BOARD"

"5 YEARS TO RUIN US!"
"A LIFE TIME TO BREAK US!"
"ALBION FOREVER!"

"NO MONEY!"
"NO INVESTMENT!"
" NO IDEA!"

"LAI OUT!!!"

Hope that helps  ;D

He's going to need a bigger bed sheet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on December 03, 2021, 04:13:29 PM
Maybe but any publicity will get back to him, and the Chinese authorities will pick up on any anti China dissent too. Not saying it will make any difference but at least someone is trying....

This is the thing for me. Some people moan that we have for years been quite a passive, almost submissive fan base when it comes to ownership. You haven't seen protests against the board, you haven't seen protests against managers particularly either. We are a non dissenting club.

Many of the same people who criticise the fans for being walk overs are the ones asking what the fans hope to achieve by this protest. Make your minds up folks. While "sack the board" may be a generic and relatively meaningless statement, the start of some form of dissent is long overdue. If it gathers momentum the club will have to react in some way. That isn't necessarily Lai saying "sod it, I'm selling up on the cheap", but it might result in more engagement from the board and might force them to get more hands on. They need to be jolted awake - China won't like the bad publicity as someone else has pointed out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 03, 2021, 04:17:02 PM
I'm loving the fact that Albion fans are FINALLY going to do something. I will never criticise them or say don't bother. I want more of it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on December 03, 2021, 04:24:37 PM
Owner power is absolute and has taken the game away from the fans, happened a long time ago.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on December 03, 2021, 04:43:36 PM
I don't quite get what is the objective this demo.  What do we think this will achieve?

Do folk think that Mr Guochuan is going to:
   i) cave in and spend lots of dosh?
   ii) cave in and sell the club for a knock-down price?
   iv) sack VI?l
   
Giving in to a motley crew in the West Mids would be even more of a loss of face than having been duped by JP.
It will probably get a few inches in the Express and Doghead which, we know, is the first thing Guochuan picks up when he reaches his Guangzhou office in the morning.

Would it not be a better idea if we could find some representative one who to explain to him how his investment is dwindling or how it could be tuned to give some return whether it is increased UK profile or even higher gates   

From his point of view he has made some outlay to appoint a new manager.  The Chinese play the long game; I don't think he's going to sack VI after just half a season because of a little demo.   
But go ahead boys; have your day; release the angst - good for you.   One thing it will tell him is that over here we're still able to demonstrate
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 03, 2021, 05:00:42 PM
I don't quite get what is the objective this demo.  What do we think this will achieve?

Do folk think that Mr Guochuan is going to:
   i) cave in and spend lots of dosh?
   ii) cave in and sell the club for a knock-down price?
   iv) sack VI?l
   
Giving in to a motley crew in the West Mids would be even more of a loss of face than having been duped by JP.
It will probably get a few inches in the Express and Doghead which, we know, is the first thing Guochuan picks up when he reaches his Guangzhou office in the morning.

Would it not be a better idea if we could find some representative one who to explain to him how his investment is dwindling or how it could be tuned to give some return whether it is increased UK profile or even higher gates   

From his point of view he has made some outlay to appoint a new manager.  The Chinese play the long game; I don't think he's going to sack VI after just half a season because of a little demo.   
But go ahead boys; have your day; release the angst - good for you.   One thing it will tell him is that over here we're still able to demonstrate

From the info AlbionFan has kindly supplied no one is asking for Val to be sacked. Its seems to be aimed at the board and our esteemed leader. I do not for one second expect Lai to react in any way, but as I said earlier the Chinese Authorities  will get to know about it and the one thing they do not like is anything adverse about them. So it could be that we get something done because they give Mr Lai some words of advice. That is why I asked very early on if any banners were going to be in Chinese, I was not joking; seeing 'Lai out' etc in their own language and they will soon get the message.

I dont think he needs to be told about his dwindling investment to be honest, he is acutely aware of that.

At least someone is trying and I applaud them for that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 03, 2021, 05:31:54 PM
Any in Chinese Dave?😂

我不认识我的朋友,抱歉 🤷 😅
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 03, 2021, 05:33:21 PM
我不认识我的朋友,抱歉 🤷 😅

Is the last word 'Clive'?  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 03, 2021, 05:46:06 PM
Is the last word 'Clive'?  ;D

As if I would Kev 😂
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on December 03, 2021, 06:05:00 PM
Need a few little dittis ringing out for Lai tomorrow.

Some old classics like "Where the f88k is Chairman Lai", " Chairman where are you ?" and the old evergreen "Where's the Chairman gone !"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 03, 2021, 06:43:52 PM
Need a few little dittis ringing out for Lai tomorrow.

Some old classics like "Where the f88k is Chairman Lai", " Chairman where are you ?" and the old evergreen "Where's the Chairman gone !"

Bet the players will be really spurred on by those chants.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 03, 2021, 09:50:50 PM
Here's the banner/flag

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFtBqtkWUAYWsNb?format=jpg&name=900x900
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on December 03, 2021, 10:50:53 PM
Bet the players will be really spurred on by those chants.

The players will backed I'm sure but. also, the Board need to know the feelings of the fans.

The dysfunctional running of our club is a disgrace.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 03, 2021, 10:57:17 PM
Bet the players will be really spurred on by those chants.

Nowt to do do with the players and they know it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 03, 2021, 10:58:35 PM
Yeah players wont give a rubbish. They will get dropped if they speak out for trying to help anyway. They will just stay quiet and collect wages.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 03, 2021, 11:03:29 PM
Yeah players wont give a rubbish. They will get dropped if they speak out for trying to help anyway. They will just stay quiet and collect wages.

I don’t see it like that gaz, they are professionals and want to do well, but they are employed by a disfunctional club that does not share their aspirations.

This is about the owners, not the manager or players
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 03, 2021, 11:05:06 PM
I'm agreeing with you. I've probably put it wrong.

The players wont care about Lai getting grief is what I am trying to say
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 03, 2021, 11:08:48 PM
I'm agreeing with you. I've probably put it wrong.

The players wont care about Lai getting grief is what I am trying to say

No they won’t mate, they are doing their very best, but they may not be on the same page as Val if you know what I mean
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 03, 2021, 11:11:46 PM
No they won’t mate, they are doing their very best, but they may not be on the same page as Val if you know what I mean

I'm with you. Could get very ugly, very soon if things don't change.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 04, 2021, 08:51:34 AM
As I understand it, the protest is planned for next week...............


Following the Liverpool bombing & other recent terror events, security has been stepped up at the turnstiles - as a result, it's unlikely they'll get the flag into the stadium.

The game is at 3:00 on Saturday afternoon, so there's unlikely to be any media cameras outside the ground.

It could be captured on social media, but shown to an audience who already have sympathies with the protesters.

IMO it's unlikely to have any effects in China, GL and his associates are small fry, in comparison to Evergrand for example.

The chants might be aimed at the owners, but they'll be seen as negative by the payers.

IMO, the protest is ill thought out & will do more harm than good.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 04, 2021, 09:40:31 AM
As I understand it, the protest is planned for next week...............


Following the Liverpool bombing & other recent terror events, security has been stepped up at the turnstiles - as a result, it's unlikely they'll get the flag into the stadium.

The game is at 3:00 on Saturday afternoon, so there's unlikely to be any media cameras outside the ground.

It could be captured on social media, but shown to an audience who already have sympathies with the protesters.

IMO it's unlikely to have any effects in China, GL and his associates are small fry, in comparison to Evergrand for example.

The chants might be aimed at the owners, but they'll be seen as negative by the payers.

IMO, the protest is ill thought out & will do more harm than good.

So what do you suggest we do John?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 04, 2021, 11:14:53 AM
So what do you suggest we do John?

The ball is firmly in Lai's court, it's in the public domain that he wants to sell the club, so protests to get Lai out is preaching to the converted.

The much reviled board of directors have already said that they want to reconstruct the football club so that it more stable & therefore more attractive to a buyer.

WBAFC is more valuable as an EPL club than it is now.

The players & management team all want to play at the highest level.

Personally, I will do my utmost to help them achieve that when I go to games by encouraging them.

At the same time, I reserve to right to give constructive criticism if I feel that things are not going in the right direction.

Think this sums up where I am with it at the moment

Quote
Grant me the understanding to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 04, 2021, 11:18:48 AM
As I understand it, the protest is planned for next week...............


Following the Liverpool bombing & other recent terror events, security has been stepped up at the turnstiles - as a result, it's unlikely they'll get the flag into the stadium.

The game is at 3:00 on Saturday afternoon, so there's unlikely to be any media cameras outside the ground.

It could be captured on social media, but shown to an audience who already have sympathies with the protesters.

IMO it's unlikely to have any effects in China, GL and his associates are small fry, in comparison to Evergrand for example.

The chants might be aimed at the owners, but they'll be seen as negative by the payers.

IMO, the protest is ill thought out & will do more harm than good.

The protest is a lot more than simply forcing Lai to sell.

It might. Just might encourage the two invisible men running this club to change.

Fair play to those involved, rather than just sitting on their backsides and accepting the way we’ve been ran.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 04, 2021, 12:09:46 PM
The protest is a lot more than simply forcing Lai to sell.

It might. Just might encourage the two invisible men running this club to change.

Fair play to those involved, rather than just sitting on their backsides and accepting the way we’ve been ran.


Don't know what you mean by change?

I believe Ken should be more visible, I've said that on earlier posts.

Without doubt there is a disconnect between the fans & the board, it would be useful for the fans to know the direction of travel of the football club.

Tend to think that LAI OUT, at the bottom of the banner, is more in keeping with the wishes of this protest group.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on December 04, 2021, 04:23:04 PM
Believe I saw lesser spotted Ken in stands at Coventry
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 04, 2021, 05:50:27 PM
Believe I saw lesser spotted Ken in stands at Coventry

Yeah he was there. Cut to him and he looked bored.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on December 04, 2021, 07:20:16 PM
Here's the banner/flag

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFtBqtkWUAYWsNb?format=jpg&name=900x900
What does a 'a lifetime to break us', actually mean?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 04, 2021, 07:21:43 PM
What does a 'a lifetime to break us', actually mean?

I'd say they mean it only 5 years for Lai to ruin the club but won't ever (lifetime) break the fans support
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on December 04, 2021, 07:36:20 PM
I'd say they mean it only 5 years for Lai to ruin the club but won't ever (lifetime) break the fans support
So maybe,‘You’ll never break us' would’ve been better. I don’t know. I’m against protests when it’s not clear what the protest hopes to achieve.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 04, 2021, 08:37:20 PM
So maybe,‘You’ll never break us' would’ve been better. I don’t know. I’m against protests when it’s not clear what the protest hopes to achieve.

I'm easy either way! I'm surprised it took this long is all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on December 05, 2021, 01:00:36 PM
Least its not a bedsheet, everytime i see a fan with a bedsheet i cant get the famous "youve let us down again" dingle bedsheet out my mind, and i do not want my club to be associated with such tinpottedness
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on December 05, 2021, 05:45:13 PM
Here's the banner/flag

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFtBqtkWUAYWsNb?format=jpg&name=900x900

Not much anyone can argue with there surely ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 05, 2021, 05:51:48 PM
Not much anyone can argue with there surely ?

They definitely haven't told any lies
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on December 06, 2021, 09:30:07 AM
Maybe but any publicity will get back to him, and the Chinese authorities will pick up on any anti China dissent too. Not saying it will make any difference but at least someone is trying....

Not sure how much of an embarrassment a protest outside the East Stand will cause Lai back home where the Chinese authorities place restrictions on internet acces/use. While they turn a blind eye to the use of VPNs by visiting business they're use is technically illegal for Chinese nationals.

If they don't want the general population knowing about a protest on the borders of Smethwick, West Bromwich and Handsworth they probably won't know about a protest on the borders of Smethwick, West Bromwich and Handsworth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 06, 2021, 11:08:27 AM
Believe I saw lesser spotted Ken in stands at Coventry

Obviously took on board baggiejohns point about visibility
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on December 06, 2021, 11:11:23 AM
It's just venting frustration, which of course we all understand.

However if the desired effect is that Lai and team say 'oh blimey, better pull my finger out or f off' then it's futile.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on December 06, 2021, 11:18:17 AM
Obviously took on board baggiejohns point about visibility

I think it'd be really funny if he started turning up to games wearing high viz with a hard hat and ear defenders just to s house everyone  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 06, 2021, 11:20:54 AM
It's just venting frustration, which of course we all understand.

However if the desired effect is that Lai and team say 'oh blimey, better pull my finger out or f off' then it's futile.

I would tend to agree with that. Also, given the result at the weekend, and the fact that many on here agree that VI deserves a transfer window, I do question the timing of the protest. If we get 12 points out of 15 for our next five games [for example], the protest is going to look a bit stupid. If it is going to happen then I would suggest February/March and completely dependent on our form and what may or may not have happened in the transfer window.

I do not agree with an earlier poster saying that the media cameras will not be outside the ground. The local TV companies will already be aware of this and will want to include it in their evening news

As I said earlier though, at least someone is doing something
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 06, 2021, 11:21:41 AM
I think it'd be really funny if he started turning up to games wearing high viz with a hard hat and ear defenders just to s house everyone  ;D .

If he does at the weekend Dan we will know he reads this site!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 06, 2021, 11:29:01 AM
Obviously took on board baggiejohns point about visibility


OR

It might have been a big part of the Assembly agenda.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 06, 2021, 12:41:09 PM

OR

It might have been a big part of the Assembly agenda.

He did look as though he was there as punishment to be fair
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 06, 2021, 12:59:14 PM
He did look as though he was there as punishment to be fair

 :)

Still have doubts that any press will turn up for the protest, they tend to be quite lazy these days & use video from social media (asking for permission of course)

Wolves are at Man City & Villa are at Liverpool, they will be the weekends' big stories.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on December 06, 2021, 01:39:33 PM
I don't imagine the Express and Dingle will pass up an opportunity to highlight discord at the Albion. They'll be there as per given it's a match day.

Wouldn't surprise me if they sent extra camera men to record any angst from every conceivable angle. They'll definitely be trawling social media accounts for anything they miss.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 07, 2021, 12:23:43 PM
It appears that arrangements for Saturdays demonstration have been changed to:

Location: Halfords Lane (was East Stand)
Time: 12 noon (Was 1:30pm)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on December 07, 2021, 12:33:09 PM
It appears that arrangements for Saturdays demonstration have been changed to:

Location: Halfords Lane (was East Stand)
Time: 12 noon (Was 1:30pm)

I'd rather fans put their efforts into forming a consortium so they can run the club themselves than arrange a pointless demonstration.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on December 07, 2021, 12:37:08 PM
I'd rather fans put their efforts into forming a consortium so they can run the club themselves that arrange a pointless demonstration.

Need some rather wealthy fans methinks!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on December 07, 2021, 01:05:11 PM
Need some rather wealthy fans methinks!

Or we need fans to accept that they do not always know best and should support the clubs hierarchy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: phbaggies on December 07, 2021, 01:15:01 PM
Or we need fans to accept that they do not always know best and should support the clubs hierarchy.
Why should we accept and support the hierarchy?? They are a bunch of clueless, disengaged imbeciles with as much experience as me and you at running a football club, they bought a toy for £150 million to boost their brand in China and its fell flat on its **** before it even took off!! Quicker they are gone the better!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 07, 2021, 01:33:53 PM
Or we need fans to accept that they do not always know best and should support the clubs hierarchy.

Given how the club has been run since 'business boy' disappeared to jersey, it is very difficult to blindly continue to support the club hierarchy BB
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on December 07, 2021, 02:50:49 PM
Why should we accept and support the hierarchy?? They are a bunch of clueless, disengaged imbeciles with as much experience as me and you at running a football club, they bought a toy for £150 million to boost their brand in China and its fell flat on its arrrrsse before it even took off!! Quicker they are gone the better!!

Well in that case fans should club together and arrange a consortium to buy GL out. I'm not a fan of his but instead of holding demonstrations (which achieve nothing) we should be targeting out efforts elsewhere such as working with Shareholders 4 Albion to find a new buyer.

This is the perfect opportunity for S4A to put up a plan in place and not bleat from the sidelines. If an official S4A campaign starts I would be happy to assist in whatever way possible.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on December 07, 2021, 02:52:10 PM
Given how the club has been run since 'business boy' disappeared to jersey, it is very difficult to blindly continue to support the club hierarchy BB

The minority said be careful what you wish for. I, like many others, appreciated JP and his stabilising influences and professional way of running the club. The majority wanted him out by any means and was happy to be sold to the first real bidder who was GL. Yet those championing Lai are now the first to want him out.

Just remember, it could always be worse! GL has done exactly what he said he would which was no outside investment. You can't knock him for sticking to his plan surely?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 07, 2021, 03:28:11 PM
The minority said be careful what you wish for. I, like many others, appreciated JP and his stabilising influences and professional way of running the club. The majority wanted him out by any means and was happy to be sold to the first real bidder who was GL. Yet those championing Lai are now the first to want him out.

Just remember, it could always be worse! GL has done exactly what he said he would which was no outside investment. You can't knock him for sticking to his plan surely?

I believe that Peace had other bids that did not match his greed price. Having said that I agree with you that he did make us a far more professional outfit. Many wanted the club to be sold to someone who would take the club forward. He even sold us that dream in his departing speech, and what a load of tosh that turned out to be.

I am not sure many were championing Lai. He gave us a scarf and bought us a beer but many waited to see what he was going to do with the club before singing his praises. Since he took over we have been relegated twice and promoted once. Under Peace we spent 8 years in the Premier doing virtually nothing, so I think that many fans hopes were that we can build on that and move ever so slightly forward. Makes no difference as its done now, but many fans think that the current owner/board do not have a clue how to run a bath, let alone a football club.

I have no faith in the hierarchy but I know that Lai is simply not going to pick up his bat and ball and leave. I would like to think that an new owner is already in place and is totally dependent on getting promoted, but I do live in hope.

In many ways I wish that our club was still being run by the well meaning amateurs that preceded Peace. At least they had our best interests at heart.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on December 07, 2021, 04:57:10 PM
Well in that case fans should club together and arrange a consortium to buy GL out. I'm not a fan of his but instead of holding demonstrations (which achieve nothing) we should be targeting out efforts elsewhere such as working with Shareholders 4 Albion to find a new buyer.

This is the perfect opportunity for S4A to put up a plan in place and not bleat from the sidelines. If an official S4A campaign starts I would be happy to assist in whatever way possible.

To get the 150m it needs 20,000 to put in £7500 each or at 175mil its 20,000 of £8750.

Obviously wealthier fans might be inclined to put in bigger amounts your frank skinners, clapton etc

But as it stands under lai ownership everytime we come down we have been worse and his approach unless it drastically changes we arent going to stay in the top league long enough for him to sell us. And everytime we get relegated its harder to get back up.

So maybe consortium is the way forward vs protesting for change
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on December 07, 2021, 05:08:17 PM
To get the 150m it needs 20,000 to put in £7500 each or at 175mil its 20,000 of £8750.

Obviously wealthier fans might be inclined to put in bigger amounts your frank skinners, clapton etc

But as it stands under lai ownership everytime we come down we have been worse and his approach unless it drastically changes we arent going to stay in the top league long enough for him to sell us. And everytime we get relegated its harder to get back up.

So maybe consortium is the way forward vs protesting for change

To be brutally honest, I don't think we have a fan base that is well off enough to finance a takeover. We're a mostly working-class lot, and while we have a few notable fans - Skinner, Chiles, etc., I don't think we have the funds on the whole.

Don't forget, it's one thing to buy the club, and agreeing a price with Lai and co would be no easy feat; but it's quite another to run it, and we would still be in pretty much the same boat we're in now, where we have to be self-sufficient.

We can change the balance and pay more in fees, but no matter which way you do it, it'd be tough.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on December 07, 2021, 05:20:05 PM
Quite.  Even if we had 50,000 fans worldwide that would still be £3,000 each on average.  If the club were West Esher Albion then I could just about imagine it. although some on here would want the new owners to show "some ambition"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 07, 2021, 05:35:43 PM
Something that occurred to me was that Lai could sell some of his shares to someone who has real intentions with the club and happy to invest. Whilst he will not get what he wants in the short term, with someone else having the 51% share holding he has the potential of receiving more for his share if we get established in the top league. That may be a better prospect than where we are now.

I am sure I am about to be told why its a rubbish idea........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on December 07, 2021, 05:48:15 PM
Something that occurred to me was that Lai could sell some of his shares to someone who has real intentions with the club and happy to invest. Whilst he will not get what he wants in the short term, with someone else having the 51% share holding he has the potential of receiving more for his share if we get established in the top league. That may be a better prospect than where we are now.

I am sure I am about to be told why its a rubbish idea........

Sadly you would be crazy to put any real investment in to us with only 51%. You’d be putting money in other peoples pockets and you’d need far larger growth to see a return. 

Let’s say Lai sells me 51% for £75m and he keeps 49%) valuing the club at £150m.  If I invest £50m and take the club valuation to £200m, both of us now have assets £100m. I’m still £25m down on my overall investment, but Lai is £25m better off without having put his hand in his pocket.

If we were an emerging tech company with a ceiling a thousand times the current value, buying 51% and fuelling it could be attractive and you just have to accept the prior majority owner will get rewarded for his work before you. I doesn’t really work with football club though.

If you are wanting to put hundreds of mill in, you just buy the large stake in the first place.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 07, 2021, 06:10:03 PM
Sadly you would be crazy to put any real investment in to us with only 51%. You’d be putting money in other peoples pockets and you’d need far larger growth to see a return. 

Let’s say Lai sells me 51% for £75m and he keeps 49%) valuing the club at £150m.  If I invest £50m and take the club valuation to £200m, both of us now have assets £100m. I’m still £25m down on my overall investment, but Lai is £25m better off without having put his hand in his pocket.

If we were an emerging tech company with a ceiling a thousand times the current value, buying 51% and fuelling it could be attractive and you just have to accept the prior majority owner will get rewarded for his work before you. I doesn’t really work with football club though.

If you are wanting to put hundreds of mill in, you just buy the large stake in the first place.

I doubt if any "investor" would see profit from the football club as a stand alone business as a reason for their investment.

As others have said, IMO, Lai's investment was intended as a vehicle to develop global growth of his landscaping business.

Pretty sure any future buyer, will have a similar objective, so while a joint venture is technically possible, for it to work, all the investors need to be on the same page.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on December 07, 2021, 07:02:27 PM
Until we find someone bonkers enough to stump up a large sum of money then Lai isn't going anywhere for some time. I can accept that to some degree. However what we really need is to get some football knowledge onto the board and upper management team. Lai has done exactly what he said he'd do which is the same as what JP did for years. The difference being we had the likes of Ashworth and a decent scouting set up back then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 07, 2021, 07:21:06 PM
Until we find someone bonkers enough to stump up a large sum of money then Lai isn't going anywhere for some time. I can accept that to some degree. However what we really need is to get some football knowledge onto the board and upper management team. Lai has done exactly what he said he'd do which is the same as what JP did for years. The difference being we had the likes of Ashworth and a decent scouting set up back then.


I'm not sure that the DoF model works for us any more.

The current model has Head Coach, Head of Academy & Head of recruitment all reporting in to the CEO.

Head Coach determines the playing style, Academy & Recruitment provide the players.

Ultimate decision (probably finance driven) is made by CEO, ........... works for me.

If we employ a DoF, it puts another level of management into the business, with conflicts of interests. The last two just haven't worked for that reason.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on December 07, 2021, 08:35:01 PM
Until we find someone bonkers enough to stump up a large sum of money then Lai isn't going anywhere for some time. I can accept that to some degree. However what we really need is to get some football knowledge onto the board and upper management team. Lai has done exactly what he said he'd do which is the same as what JP did for years. The difference being we had the likes of Ashworth and a decent scouting set up back then.

So let's give this new management team a chance;  at least a couple seasons for restructuring - unless we look like we're headed for League 1 at any point (Then of course our value would further decline and GL might start a fire sale.)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 07, 2021, 08:42:11 PM
Talk of a fans consortium is hilarious - we can’t get folk to Chuck £20.00 in for a game on a Saturday!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on December 07, 2021, 11:14:16 PM
Talk of a fans consortium is hilarious - we can’t get folk to Chuck £20.00 in for a game on a Saturday!

Until anybody really has a go at it you never know... but for the most part i agree unless wealthier fans really took 100s of shares each if not 1000s it wouldn't work. Probably worth suggesting to the S4A crowd and get them to organise it. Lai has 88% they have 12%. If lai reduced his ownership and let fans by him down to 51% at least he would have some cash back short term and perhaps we could get better direction...

Pipeline dream. If i won 200mil + on euro millions i would buy him out and then sell shares to keep my position at 49% ownership
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on December 08, 2021, 09:18:30 PM
minor point he will not sell 49% as that could then align with existing minority owners (S4A?) to wrest control from him (I think)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on December 09, 2021, 06:36:01 AM
minor point he will not sell 49% as that could then align with existing minority owners (S4A?) to wrest control from him (I think)

I meant he sold down so he only have 51% rather than the 88% he has now. I was going to work out numbers but the maths began to hurt my head...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 09, 2021, 08:33:45 AM
I meant he sold down so he only have 51% rather than the 88% he has now. I was going to work out numbers but the maths began to hurt my head...


Whatever the value of any additional shareholding, nobody is going to "invest" a significant sum without having some control.
GL's track record isn't exactly inspiring.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on December 09, 2021, 09:18:42 AM
I think people under-estimate just how much spare cash you need to compete in the filth that is the greed league. You could skin out every Albion fan in the country and still be worse off than we are now!
Remember, villa spent almost £300m and only escaped relegation due to a broken watch (allegedly).

If Lai goes, the next incumbent has to be very, very, very rich, to make any difference whatsoever.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on December 09, 2021, 12:52:05 PM
I think people under-estimate just how much spare cash you need to compete in the filth that is the greed league. You could skin out every Albion fan in the country and still be worse off than we are now!
Remember, villa spent almost £300m and only escaped relegation due to a broken watch (allegedly).

If Lai goes, the next incumbent has to be very, very, very rich, to make any difference whatsoever.

Fosun are getting inbreds into chumps league remember, and whats their investment to date? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on December 10, 2021, 05:24:17 AM
I think people under-estimate just how much spare cash you need to compete in the filth that is the greed league. You could skin out every Albion fan in the country and still be worse off than we are now!
Remember, villa spent almost £300m and only escaped relegation due to a broken watch (allegedly).

If Lai goes, the next incumbent has to be very, very, very rich, to make any difference whatsoever.

But i would rather the fans own the club and run it in a self sustaining way and promote youth and have some kind of stategy than somebody with no interest in the club run it badly and suck the life out of it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 10, 2021, 08:17:19 AM
But i would rather the fans own the club and run it in a self sustaining way and promote youth and have some kind of stategy than somebody with no interest in the club run it badly and suck the life out of it

Nice idea for non league, but to compete effectively at elite level, you need money.

Newcastle United have just been bought by a country, it's difficult to see a fan's consortium competing at that level.

I thought the protest for tomorrow was based on Lai's lack of investment, the club is being run on self sustaining lines, but that's not enough for the fans?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on December 10, 2021, 08:46:11 AM
But i would rather the fans own the club and run it in a self sustaining way and promote youth and have some kind of stategy than somebody with no interest in the club run it badly and suck the life out of it

Fan ownership is a nice idea, but could easily be more of a mess than some think it is now. In fact, the odds of it being worse are probably quite high. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on December 10, 2021, 09:11:32 AM
Fosun are getting inbreds into chumps league remember, and whats their investment to date?

Since the takeover in 2016 Fosun have spent £414M, the majority of that; £359.4 M has been spent in the PL.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 10, 2021, 09:26:33 AM

I thought the protest for tomorrow was based on Lai's lack of investment, the club is being run on self sustaining lines, but that's not enough for the fans?

There is no defence for him which your post appears to imply.

He has taken an established Premier League football club and now look at us.

Fans have every right to make their feelings known regarding the way this club has been ran. 

Good luck to them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 10, 2021, 11:14:44 AM
There is no defence for him which your post appears to imply.

He has taken an established Premier League football club and now look at us.

Fans have every right to make their feelings known regarding the way this club has been ran. 

Good luck to them.

On a point of order, I understood that, in the forum rules, editing quotes is not allowed, the full quote has to be displayed.

Going back to my original post in response to this post from Beechyboy90

"Quote from: beechyboy90 on Today at 05:24:17 AM
But i would rather the fans own the club and run it in a self sustaining way and promote youth and have some kind of stategy than somebody with no interest in the club run it badly and suck the life out of it"




I said

"Nice idea for non league, but to compete effectively at elite level, you need money.

Newcastle United have just been bought by a country, it's difficult to see a fan's consortium competing at that level.

I thought the protest for tomorrow was based on Lai's lack of investment, the club is being run on self sustaining lines, but that's not enough for the fans?"



Just to demonstrate that the club is already being run on self sustaining lines, therefore it's unlikely that a fan consortium would make any difference.
In fact, as others have said, if the consortium funds were limited to buying Lai out, where would the money come from to improve us?

IMO, Lai has been badly advised, but the move to flatten the management structure shows that he recognises that, & there appears to be a strategy of development, hence the 4 year contract for VI.

I think I'd like to see how that progresses for a while.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on December 10, 2021, 11:37:58 AM
Since the takeover in 2016 Fosun have spent £414M, the majority of that; £359.4 M has been spent in the PL.
So that's £200m (what Lai wants) to buy + £80m per year? To hover round midtable.

If we're having a whip round, to buy Lai out....... we're going to need a bigger hat.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 10, 2021, 11:42:30 AM
On a point of order, I understood that, in the forum rules, editing quotes is not allowed, the full quote has to be displayed.

Going back to my original post in response to this post from Beechyboy90

"Quote from: beechyboy90 on Today at 05:24:17 AM
But i would rather the fans own the club and run it in a self sustaining way and promote youth and have some kind of stategy than somebody with no interest in the club run it badly and suck the life out of it"




I said

"Nice idea for non league, but to compete effectively at elite level, you need money.

Newcastle United have just been bought by a country, it's difficult to see a fan's consortium competing at that level.

I thought the protest for tomorrow was based on Lai's lack of investment, the club is being run on self sustaining lines, but that's not enough for the fans?"



Just to demonstrate that the club is already being run on self sustaining lines, therefore it's unlikely that a fan consortium would make any difference.
In fact, as others have said, if the consortium funds were limited to buying Lai out, where would the money come from to improve us?

IMO, Lai has been badly advised, but the move to flatten the management structure shows that he recognises that, & there appears to be a strategy of development, hence the 4 year contract for VI.

I think I'd like to see how that progresses for a while.

Two points on your post John

1. flattening the management structure stinks of cost saving and nothing else. I am led to believe that quite a few posts within the club have either been merged, or just disappeared.

2. I can see no real evidence of any strategy for the club at the moment. Giving a manager a four year contract is all well and good but is not a strategy unless the owner backs him in the forthcoming transfer window.

Like many others I am happy to see VI get a transfer window, but if we find ourselves struggling to hang on to a play off place by March that I will have certainly seen enough to work out that there is no real plan in place. What I do not get is that some are saying VI needs 3 or 4 transfer windows. I thought that when he was at Barnsley his impact was almost immediate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on December 10, 2021, 12:04:06 PM
Two points on your post John

1. flattening the management structure stinks of cost saving and nothing else. I am led to believe that quite a few posts within the club have either been merged, or just disappeared.

2. I can see no real evidence of any strategy for the club at the moment. Giving a manager a four year contract is all well and good but is not a strategy unless the owner backs him in the forthcoming transfer window.

Like many others I am happy to see VI get a transfer window, but if we find ourselves struggling to hang on to a play off place by March that I will have certainly seen enough to work out that there is no real plan in place. What I do not get is that some are saying VI needs 3 or 4 transfer windows. I thought that when he was at Barnsley him impact was almost immediate.

Barnsley generally had a squad suited to playing VI's kind of football, because they recruit their managers based on a blueprint of roughly continuing style.

We on the other hand, flit between styles and end up with a hodge-podge of a squad that has glaring weaknesses and is overstocked on other areas.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on December 10, 2021, 12:19:10 PM
Two points on your post John

1. flattening the management structure stinks of cost saving and nothing else. I am led to believe that quite a few posts within the club have either been merged, or just disappeared.

2. I can see no real evidence of any strategy for the club at the moment. Giving a manager a four year contract is all well and good but is not a strategy unless the owner backs him in the forthcoming transfer window.

Like many others I am happy to see VI get a transfer window, but if we find ourselves struggling to hang on to a play off place by March that I will have certainly seen enough to work out that there is no real plan in place. What I do not get is that some are saying VI needs 3 or 4 transfer windows. I thought that when he was at Barnsley him impact was almost immediate.
It's the interpretation of this that is key.
Is it working with Val and recruitment to try and get the best possible players within the available budget? With the size of the budget is dictated by club finances.
or
Is it bolster the budget by supplementing with external cash?

If it's the former then I expect that is what will happen.
If it's the latter, then it almost certainly won't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on December 10, 2021, 12:25:18 PM
Barnsley generally had a squad suited to playing VI's kind of football, because they recruit their managers based on a blueprint of roughly continuing style.

We on the other hand, flit between styles and end up with a hodge-podge of a squad that has glaring weaknesses and is overstocked on other areas.
His successor didn't last long.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiebof on December 10, 2021, 01:00:07 PM
His successor didn't last long.

But he was the first in four appointments that didn't work.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on December 10, 2021, 01:57:37 PM
But he was the first in four appointments that didn't work.
Even so, it shows that no process is foolproof.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 10, 2021, 02:04:55 PM
His successor didn't last long.

I was curious about that (sad but I'm working from home so I take any distraction) and did a bit of googling.  Apparently he wanted to move to a more possesion based game.....and lasted 16 of them. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 10, 2021, 02:08:07 PM
I was curious about that (sad but I'm working from home so I take any distraction) and did a bit of googling.  Apparently he wanted to move to a more possesion based game.....and lasted 16 of them.

Possession? You mean playing it to feet and accurate passing? The mad fool.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 10, 2021, 02:14:33 PM
Possession? You mean playing it to feet and accurate passing? The mad fool.......

Found it .  Quote from one of the players after an early Barnsley win...

"We’re trying to play a bit similar to last year but a bit more passing in spells, not going as long as much, and you could see that. We played out from the back more, into midfield and into the strikers and linked up there.”

......just before they went on a SEVEN game losing sequence.  But at least the defeats would have been more pleasing on the eye  ;D

And in follow up, it appears Barnsley have gone back to the continuity candidate

"It became clear the Reds players were not enamoured with Markus Schopp's direction, leadership, and style of play so if Asbaghi is to stave off relegation to League One with 29 games remaining clarity will be vital, the Swede is known for playing the high-pressing style Barnsley want"

So that is your longer term strategy, albeit one with a few more quid to throw at it here than at Barnsley (not much more mind).  Build a squad to play a high-press style of football (through use of statistics to identify targets suited to that specific style and formation) and identify potential managers for the future that can offer continuity.

And no, there will be no input of cash from the owners which is why Val is confident that he can say he needs three or four windows to shape the squad as it will be on freebies and bargains.   However, he has said from the outset that he will be looking for the right players (for the system) rather than the best, and thus most expensive, players on the market.

It's a big gamble by the owners as it could be a path to Championship mediocrity, but it's a gamble that requires the least financial input so a big tick in the box for them as they've found out chucking cash at the problem (Big Sam SOS) doesn't guarantee success in the amounts we can throw.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 10, 2021, 04:05:14 PM
Found it .  Quote from one of the players after an early Barnsley win...

"We’re trying to play a bit similar to last year but a bit more passing in spells, not going as long as much, and you could see that. We played out from the back more, into midfield and into the strikers and linked up there.”

......just before they went on a SEVEN game losing sequence.  But at least the defeats would have been more pleasing on the eye  ;D

And in follow up, it appears Barnsley have gone back to the continuity candidate

"It became clear the Reds players were not enamoured with Markus Schopp's direction, leadership, and style of play so if Asbaghi is to stave off relegation to League One with 29 games remaining clarity will be vital, the Swede is known for playing the high-pressing style Barnsley want"

So that is your longer term strategy, albeit one with a few more quid to throw at it here than at Barnsley (not much more mind).  Build a squad to play a high-press style of football (through use of statistics to identify targets suited to that specific style and formation) and identify potential managers for the future that can offer continuity.

And no, there will be no input of cash from the owners which is why Val is confident that he can say he needs three or four windows to shape the squad as it will be on freebies and bargains.   However, he has said from the outset that he will be looking for the right players (for the system) rather than the best, and thus most expensive, players on the market.

It's a big gamble by the owners as it could be a path to Championship mediocrity, but it's a gamble that requires the least financial input so a big tick in the box for them as they've found out chucking cash at the problem (Big Sam SOS) doesn't guarantee success in the amounts we can throw.


Yes, sums up my position on it nicely.

I believe VI's major criteria is character, with skill being secondary, the funding benefit being a by-product.

The right players might be skillful, but skilful players without character won't be the right players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on December 10, 2021, 04:19:28 PM
There is no defence for him which your post appears to imply.

He has taken an established Premier League football club and now look at us.

Fans have every right to make their feelings known regarding the way this club has been ran. 

Good luck to them.

There is a defense though. Regardless of a prolonged period in the top flight (by recent standards) we were always a club on the edge. There is no automatic right in business or in life to have an upward trajectory, which all your competitors are also striving for. Yes many of the decisions under Lai's tenure have worked out badly, but nobody is immune to those risk. I think many underestimate the challenges. 

I'm neither for or against Lai in particular and I dont think he's done much well, but on the flip side I also don't see huge mistakes like some seem to either.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 11, 2021, 07:44:08 AM
There is a defense though. Regardless of a prolonged period in the top flight (by recent standards) we were always a club on the edge. There is no automatic right in business or in life to have an upward trajectory, which all your competitors are also striving for. Yes many of the decisions under Lai's tenure have worked out badly, but nobody is immune to those risk. I think many underestimate the challenges. 

I'm neither for or against Lai in particular and I dont think he's done much well, but on the flip side I also don't see huge mistakes like some seem to either.

Agreed.  Roland was very shrewd , he sold the club at it's peak value knowing that a decline at some point was inevitable, and had stated previously that we were a mid table championship club over achieving. 

For me the real decline set in at the point Hodgson and more specifically Ashworth left to join England.  It decimated the club in one hit, although Steve Clarke has a short period of success on the back of what they built.  After years of relative success using a DOF model and modest spending JP could see the club losing value after the Pepe Mel fiasco and bought in Pullis to secure his investment.  Pullis did what Pullis does and JP sold before the inevitable fall, pocketing £100 million plus for his trouble.

For me, the owner(s) has done exactly what was promised on arrival in continuing to run us as a self sustaining club, there was no promise of investment!  Roland has proven himself to be a shrewd and ruthless businessman but he wasn't a crook and ensured he sold us to an owner that would not put the club in financial jeopardy. 

At the moment all the owners can be accused of is having a lack of nous and football knowledge.  Admittedly they did try to play a fast one selling Perreira to China and it completely back fired on them and the club, losing us the best part of £15 million.  Big Sam was another pointless waste of money, but there was a logic behind the appointment (he'd never been relegated) even if it was destined to fail. 

I see the appointment of Val as an acknowledgement of their lack of footballing expertise.   He's been given a long contract and the responsibility of rebuilding the squad on a meagre budget.  The owners can't sell as they would lose best part of £100 million and cant/wont invest so they are gambling on Val to bring an element of "money ball" success that was being implemented at Barnsley. 

Brighton and Brentford are currently showing what can be achieved in the PL by a well run club (a certain Mr Ashworth has left his imprint at Brighton) but both of those clubs DO have owners that personally invest, even if not on a lavish level by PL standards. So they are in a better position to cement PL status than we are.

Based on finances alone, with no owner investment, we ARE a mid table champ club reliant on a combination of good management and recruitment to keep us even Yo Yoing. We can only hope that Val keeps us over achieving and that we don't slip further into that mid table mediocrity that JP prophesised all those years ago.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 11, 2021, 08:46:34 AM
Agreed.  Roland was very shrewd , he sold the club at it's peak value knowing that a decline at some point was inevitable, and had stated previously that we were a mid table championship club over achieving. 

For me the real decline set in at the point Hodgson and more specifically Ashworth left to join England.  It decimated the club in one hit, although Steve Clarke has a short period of success on the back of what they built.  After years of relative success using a DOF model and modest spending JP could see the club losing value after the Pepe Mel fiasco and bought in Pullis to secure his investment.  Pullis did what Pullis does and JP sold before the inevitable fall, pocketing £100 million plus for his trouble.

For me, the owner(s) has done exactly what was promised on arrival in continuing to run us as a self sustaining club, there was no promise of investment!  Roland has proven himself to be a shrewd and ruthless businessman but he wasn't a crook and ensured he sold us to an owner that would not put the club in financial jeopardy. 

At the moment all the owners can be accused of is having a lack of nous and football knowledge.  Admittedly they did try to play a fast one selling Perreira to China and it completely back fired on them and the club, losing us the best part of £15 million.  Big Sam was another pointless waste of money, but there was a logic behind the appointment (he'd never been relegated) even if it was destined to fail. 

I see the appointment of Val as an acknowledgement of their lack of footballing expertise.   He's been given a long contract and the responsibility of rebuilding the squad on a meagre budget.  The owners can't sell as they would lose best part of £100 million and cant/wont invest so they are gambling on Val to bring an element of "money ball" success that was being implemented at Barnsley. 

Brighton and Brentford are currently showing what can be achieved in the PL by a well run club (a certain Mr Ashworth has left his imprint at Brighton) but both of those clubs DO have owners that personally invest, even if not on a lavish level by PL standards. So they are in a better position to cement PL status than we are.

Based on finances alone, with no owner investment, we ARE a mid table champ club reliant on a combination of good management and recruitment to keep us even Yo Yoing. We can only hope that Val keeps us over achieving and that we don't slip further into that mid table mediocrity that JP prophesised all those years ago.

Good post 24 but I don't for one second believe that Peace cared about our financial position once he had trousered his money. He said a few untruths when he left and this was all part of his hype.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 11, 2021, 08:52:28 AM
Good post 24 but I don't for one second believe that Peace cared about our financial position once he had trousered his money. He said a few untruths when he left and this was all part of his hype.

I'm inclined to agree but leave me with something from the good times ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 11, 2021, 09:04:15 AM
JP sold us to Lai for the good of the club?

Come on mate. He sold us to the person he could get the highest fee from.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 11, 2021, 09:59:56 AM
JP sold us to Lai for the good of the club?

Come on mate. He sold us to the person he could get the highest fee from.

Did I suggest he did it for the good of the club?  No way, he pocketed £100m plus through some pretty devious financial practise.  I just said he wasn't a crook.  You can't deny that the new owners havn't taken any risks with club finances. 

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 11, 2021, 11:40:27 AM
Oh he's not a crook, he can sell to who he wants but you said he sold us to the person to ensure the club wouldn't be put in financial jeopardy. The guy is no philanthropist.

He simply sold us to the buyer who would put the most money in his pocket.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 11, 2021, 12:19:50 PM
The theme on here for the sale of the club by JP to GL seems to assume that it was a simple "sold as seen" sale.

Allegedly, both sides paid significant sums for advice, which suggests to me that there were a number of nuances & caveats in the contract.

If that's the case, then JP & GL could both be disadvantaged by the project not going to plan.

Perhaps members who are familiar with acquisition contracts could comment please?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WoysWunderful on December 11, 2021, 01:05:31 PM
I mean lai allways said he's run the club as it had been previous, but im sure even prof chadwick was caught completely unaware by the speed and depth of the u0turn the chinese goverement did on foreign football clubs...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on December 12, 2021, 03:07:47 PM
Genuine question.

How did the pre match Lai Out protest go?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 13, 2021, 12:49:51 PM
It appears that arrangements for Saturdays demonstration have been changed to:

Location: Halfords Lane (was East Stand)
Time: 12 noon (Was 1:30pm)

The demonstration, planned before Saturday's game against Reading, did not take place as the organiser was suffering from COVID-19
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on December 15, 2021, 03:59:35 PM
https://twitter.com/WBA/status/1471146954134540293

OMG he still exists and came to the training ground.  Probably told Val - no budget !

https://twitter.com/JosephMasi_Star/status/1471147867507240970

Lai gone to staggering lengths to return. He quarantined here for 10 days. When he returns to China he'll quarantine for 14 days in a hotel, 7 days at home without going out & then for 7 days he'll have to post negative tests daily. Effectively a 38 day quarantine period... #wba

Must be selling the club !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on December 15, 2021, 04:05:22 PM
His pockets are shorter than is stature.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 15, 2021, 04:07:22 PM
I see that protest worked well...

First sign of a protest and suddenly he's back on the scene!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SC_Baggie on December 15, 2021, 04:07:28 PM
Good on Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 15, 2021, 04:08:13 PM
Bloomin hell he's shown his face!!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 15, 2021, 04:08:56 PM
Also noticed he's referred to simply as the 'controlling shareholder' these days on the OS or has it always said that? I thought he was called owner before.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 15, 2021, 04:10:00 PM
I like the one where he's shaking Livermores hand and it looks like he's saying "who is this?!?" Club captain mate
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 15, 2021, 04:23:47 PM
Blimey, must be serious!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 15, 2021, 04:43:17 PM
Also noticed he's referred to simply as the 'controlling shareholder' these days on the OS or has it always said that? I thought he was called owner before.

This is what the original announcement said...............

"West Bromwich Albion Football Club (“the Club”) announces that Jeremy Peace has agreed the sale of West Bromwich Albion Holdings Limited, which owns approximately 88% of the Club’s parent entity, West Bromwich Albion Group Limited, to Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited (“the Buyer”), a company controlled by Guochuan Lai. "

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 15, 2021, 04:46:12 PM
Are we sure that’s not our new striker lining up with his new team mates for a group photo?

To be honest, I think he’s a little bit on the short side so, not many headed goals likely 😂
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 15, 2021, 04:46:51 PM
This is what the original announcement said...............

"West Bromwich Albion Football Club (“the Club”) announces that Jeremy Peace has agreed the sale of West Bromwich Albion Holdings Limited, which owns approximately 88% of the Club’s parent entity, West Bromwich Albion Group Limited, to Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited (“the Buyer”), a company controlled by Guochuan Lai. "

Thanks John! It's been that long since he's been mentioned I couldn't remember

Well one small protest and he comes to save face. Apparently transfer talks were positive  ;D

Let's see
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on December 15, 2021, 05:13:36 PM
He might be mascot for our next game🤪
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on December 15, 2021, 05:18:27 PM
I see that protest worked well...

First sign of a protest and suddenly he's back on the scene!

Yeah must of made him think. Wonder if his visit will mean him putting some money in for the January transfer window?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 15, 2021, 06:04:03 PM
Yeah must of made him think. Wonder if his visit will mean him putting some money in for the January transfer window?

Sounds that way. Something has got back to him.

Masi said he's going to re-integrate himself into the club  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 15, 2021, 06:24:53 PM
Sounds that way. Something has got back to him.

Masi said he's going to re-integrate himself into the club  :o

That sounds like a medium to long term commitment to me that I’m OK with that, provided he changes, within reasonable financial limitations, the existing and JRP’s financial blueprint for the club i.e. Lia personally invests in the club, but that is highly unlikely in my view. But I live in the hope of expectation to be surprised
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on December 15, 2021, 06:59:56 PM
I'm pleased to see him here , I do think the social media / protests will have played a small part .
Before I get too hopeful I'll wait to see what happens in the window!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 15, 2021, 07:04:38 PM
Joseph Masi just Tweeted

It's believed Lai still wants to sell Albion. But he accepts a sale is unlikely in the foreseeable future. Therefore he wants to give his investment some TLC to help them back to the Premier League... #wba
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 15, 2021, 07:06:47 PM
I'd heard he was here to finalise a massive landscaping contract for HS2, & thought he'd drop in to say hello while he was in the area.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 15, 2021, 07:21:51 PM
That sounds like a medium to long term commitment to me that I’m OK with that, provided he changes, within reasonable financial limitations, the existing and JRP’s financial blueprint for the club i.e. Lia personally invests in the club, but that is highly unlikely in my view. But I live in the hope of expectation to be surprised

I think he's realised if he wants something out anywhere near what he paid then he ahs to put something back in!

I'd heard he was here to finalise a massive landscaping contract for HS2, & thought he'd drop in to say hello while he was in the area.

 ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on December 15, 2021, 08:36:47 PM
I'm pleased to see him here , I do think the social media / protests will have played a small part .
Before I get too hopeful I'll wait to see what happens in the window!

But I thought they were pointless 😁.

I agree with you, no doubt the growing frustration has forced his hand. It can only be seen as a  positive him taking things more seriously and maybe being more visible.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on December 15, 2021, 09:05:27 PM
I personally doubt the protests had anything to do with it. They’ve really not been that visible or significant. I’ve only seen them mentioned on here.

It also Looks like the trip is going to cost him the best part of a month in isolation and that’s not something you do on a whim, I expect this trip has been planned for a while.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aussie Baggie on December 15, 2021, 09:08:29 PM
I'm just hoping he's here to tell VI that he can have some money to buy some more decent players!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on December 15, 2021, 09:26:03 PM
I personally doubt the protests had anything to do with it. They’ve really not been that visible or significant. I’ve only seen them mentioned on here.

It also Looks like the trip is going to cost him the best part of a month in isolation and that’s not something you do on a whim, I expect this trip has been planned for a while.
The sack the board / wheres the money gone chants made national press , the protest banner was all over social media. It won't be the only reason Lai has arrived in the UK but those cameras didn't need to be at the training ground for snaps with Val and co . Small but I think a point was taken .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 15, 2021, 09:32:16 PM
The sack the board / wheres the money gone chants made national press , the protest banner was all over social media. It won't be the only reason Lai has arrived in the UK but thise cameras didn't need to be at the training ground for snaps with Val and co . Small but I think a point was taken .

You don't think the Chinese authorities had any influence then?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on December 15, 2021, 09:49:19 PM
You don't think the Chinese authorities had any influence then?
I've stated what I think John , overall its been a miserable time for us and them . I await to see actual proof but lets hope this is a step in the right direction .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 15, 2021, 10:03:49 PM
I've stated what I think John , overall its been a miserable time for us and them . I await to see actual proof but lets hope this is a step in the right direction .

The outcome for us might be good, but IMO the main driver for the visit, is the Chinese authorities want their money back & he's been told to get involved.

Don't be surprised to see GL replacing Li Piyue as Chairman, he can keep in contact via zoom, without needing to be here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on December 15, 2021, 10:10:47 PM
The outcome for us might be good, but IMO the main driver for the visit, is the Chinese authorities want their money back & he's been told to get involved.

Don't be surprised to see GL replacing Li Piyue as Chairman, he can keep in contact via zoom, without needing to be here.
Either way we've been treading water for too long now , maybe even going backwards .
As I say we'll have to wait and see but it appears he/they know some investment is needed for them to see a return on money spent buying the club .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 15, 2021, 10:35:05 PM
It's good that Lai will now give a toss but we still need some solid footballing men at the club above VI too. Let's get some sort of structure or plan going.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 15, 2021, 10:58:45 PM
It's good that Lai will now give a toss but we still need some solid footballing men at the club above VI too. Let's get some sort of structure or plan going.

We've got a structure.

Head Coach, recruitment, academy & admin all report to Ken.

The ultimate decisions will always be financial, you don't need a detailed knowledge about football to make them.

IMO, we've sufficient evidence to show that the DoF model doesn't work for us.
In every case since Dan Ashworth left we've had conflicts of interest.

I'm prepared to give this flatter structure a chance.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 15, 2021, 11:10:09 PM
True they have been largely poor since Ashworth but that's because most were clearly awful from the get go.

We certainly do need someone with some footballing acumen involved at a higher level in my opinion
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on December 15, 2021, 11:22:04 PM
This is not a guy turning up in response to “pressure” this trip will have been scheduled, for GL to take a significant chunk of time out of his schedule and not an insignificant inconvenience there is something major happening behind the scenes. I do hope that someone sees us as an opportunity to invest
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 15, 2021, 11:40:17 PM
We can only hope they don't come on here and read messages from the supporters who hope we don't go up  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 16, 2021, 08:56:08 AM
This is not a guy turning up in response to “pressure” this trip will have been scheduled, for GL to take a significant chunk of time out of his schedule and not an insignificant inconvenience there is something major happening behind the scenes. I do hope that someone sees us as an opportunity to invest

Or he could have just decided to do his Christmas shopping in Birmingham....... ;)

Hope you are right though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on December 16, 2021, 09:07:41 AM
I wonder how big a part of  Yunyi Goukai Sports Investment's portfolio, the WBA investment is.  I don't think these billionaire Chinese give a monkeys (not the edible sort) about a little demonstration - we're gnats to them.  Mike Ashley lives in this country and didn't seem to be thrown by the abuse thrown at him be the toon supporters. 

All we can hope for is that he doesn't sell us to someone worse and puts the odd moderate contribution to keep the club financially stable and developing under its own means which is what he outlined from the start.  From his perspective, this season's investment might be Valerien Ishmael's contract.  Good for him for turning up.

I remain to be convinced of the of the story about the investment being part of China's Belt and Road initiative.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on December 16, 2021, 09:14:49 AM
I wonder how big a part of  Yunyi Goukai Sports Investment's portfolio, the WBA investment is.  I don't think these billionaire Chinese give a monkeys (not the edible sort) about a little demonstration - we're gnats to them.  Mike Ashley lives in this country and didn't seem to be thrown by the abuse thrown at him be the toon supporters. 

All we can hope for is that he doesn't sell us to someone worse and puts the odd moderate contribution to keep the club financially stable and developing under its own means which is what he outlined from the start.  From his perspective, this season's investment might be Valerien Ishmael's contract.  Good for him for turning up.

I remain to be convinced of the of the story about the investment being part of China's Belt and Road initiative.

What if Mike Ashely comes sniffing. Would you rather have Mike Ashley or Lai as owners?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on December 16, 2021, 09:22:34 AM
What if Mike Ashely comes sniffing. Would you rather have Mike Ashley or Lai as owners?

That's like saying do you want to loose your left leg or your right one?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 16, 2021, 09:24:31 AM
That's like saying do you want to loose your left leg or your right one?

Kev wont find that joke very funny ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 16, 2021, 09:25:59 AM
What if Mike Ashely comes sniffing. Would you rather have Mike Ashley or Lai as owners?

Not that it is ever going to happen but I would rather we were in British ownership than Chinese.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on December 16, 2021, 09:53:22 AM
I wonder how big a part of  Yunyi Goukai Sports Investment's portfolio, the WBA investment is.  I don't think these billionaire Chinese give a monkeys (not the edible sort) about a little demonstration - we're gnats to them.  Mike Ashley lives in this country and didn't seem to be thrown by the abuse thrown at him be the toon supporters. 

All we can hope for is that he doesn't sell us to someone worse and puts the odd moderate contribution to keep the club financially stable and developing under its own means which is what he outlined from the start.  From his perspective, this season's investment might be Valerien Ishmael's contract.  Good for him for turning up.

I remain to be convinced of the of the story about the investment being part of China's Belt and Road initiative.
It seems that the belt and road plan was curtailed to include mainland Europe as you imply there is little if any evidence of it extending into the uk.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 16, 2021, 10:55:05 AM
I wonder how big a part of  Yunyi Goukai Sports Investment's portfolio, the WBA investment is.  I don't think these billionaire Chinese give a monkeys (not the edible sort) about a little demonstration - we're gnats to them.  Mike Ashley lives in this country and didn't seem to be thrown by the abuse thrown at him be the toon supporters. 

All we can hope for is that he doesn't sell us to someone worse and puts the odd moderate contribution to keep the club financially stable and developing under its own means which is what he outlined from the start.  From his perspective, this season's investment might be Valerien Ishmael's contract.  Good for him for turning up.

I remain to be convinced of the of the story about the investment being part of China's Belt and Road initiative.


Tend to agree with that, but it almost certainly was influenced by China's desire to be a world player in sport & particularly football.
That desire still exists in China, the fact that Western countries are boycotting the Beijing Olympics is irritating them in a big way.

I believe Lai's team were attracted by our academy model, & probably the fact that the person who developed the academy went on to become Director of Excellence for the English FA.
The original plan was for the academy model to be replicated in Eco friendly towns throughout China, with the aim of developing players for the National team.

The Eco friendly town project would have benefited Lai's Palm Landscaping & Construction business.

Almost certainly, the reason for the acquisition was broader than the desire of a Chinese consortium to own an English Premier League Club.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 16, 2021, 06:14:06 PM
I think I also read that China’s Government wanted to bid for a World Cup and develop  a National Team capable of winning it.

When it became apparent that was going to happen any time soon, there interest in football waned somewhat.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 25, 2021, 09:36:40 AM
An interesting article in the link below that highlights the direction of travel in Chinese footballing philosophy and might also explain our owners, apparent, lack of interest and commitment


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10317209/The-Chinese-Super-League-imploded-just-spectacularly-burst-scene.html
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 26, 2021, 09:35:57 AM
Not that it is ever going to happen but I would rather we were in British ownership than Chinese.
Fred west or the Dalai Lama?
In all seriousness (and very aware I’m in a very small minority that don’t get it) there seems to be some “thing” that football fans who contribute £400 for a season ticket and £70 for little Jimmy’s extortionate away kit….believe  they can have a say over the running of the club, who they buy, what contracts they should be offered, when contracts should be offered etc etc

I can’t think of any other business like it…imagine “Dave from Tipton”moaning to Ferrari that they need to be less red, make more diesels and how about a combi van?
Fans sit on here and want to tell billionaires how to run a business, think that when a player signs and doesn’t do well that no other team as the same issues and then the “just pay the £13m and get him signed “ posts are pure comedy.
If people want to run iit, then puit the money down, if not ….buy player manager .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on December 26, 2021, 10:37:08 AM
While I agree that there are unrealistic fans out there who are of the "pay whatever it takes" variety - clearly fans I wouldn't want having any real influence- you just can't compare a football club to a normal business. The whole model is completely unique.

Dave and Kelly from Tipton won't tell Ferrari to change the colour of their cars - they will just go and buy a Porsche or Lamborghini instead. Football fans aren't regular customers and football clubs aren't regular businesses - they are community stakeholdings and fans should expect to have an input - fans will after all be there long after the owners, managers or players..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on December 26, 2021, 11:43:45 AM
Dave from Tipton has just sent me a text to say you're both wrong. He's got an 'oss n cart and wouldn't be seen dead in red. Quite likes orange chips though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on December 27, 2021, 08:09:44 PM
Dear Mr Lai. This is what happens when you try to succeed on the cheap. We've seen poor decision after poor decision. Your cunning plan to sit back and do nothing in the hope we get promoted is going to bite you in the backside. A sensible amount of investment over the summer would have gone a long way to giving the team a great chance.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on December 27, 2021, 08:11:43 PM
Dear Mr Lai. This is what happens when you try to succeed on the cheap. We've seen poor decision after poor decision. Your cunning plan to sit back and do nothing in the hope we get promoted is going to bite you in the backside. A sensible amount of investment over the summer would have gone a long way to giving the team a great chance.

Investment 12 months earlier would have been better still
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on December 27, 2021, 10:24:13 PM
Who is this invisible person?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on December 30, 2021, 11:51:17 AM
Huge month ahead for Mr Lai. If we commit some funs to secure a forward or 2 and maybe a creative midfielder it may be the turning point needed to get automatic promotion. Failure to be promoted may well lead to a very long, and downward spiral for both Mr Lai and the club. Next season would be tough as im sure Norwich will be strong (If relegated) as will any other 2 teams. I fear this is 'Sh*t or Bust' for the club. I will look on with great interest over the next 4 weeks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on December 30, 2021, 11:58:58 AM
If only the £4m (?) that is owed to the club were repaid by the debtor, whoever he, she or it is, that would be very helpful in this transfer window
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on January 03, 2022, 10:49:06 AM
Chinese real estate giant Evergrande have suspended trading their shares. It probably has no knock on effect to Lai, but it's worth nothing they are the biggest Guangzhou based real estate company and Lai has made his money in real estate - in Guangzhou.

Depends if the companies relied on each other in anyway, but will be interesting to see if this has any impact.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 19, 2022, 05:22:52 PM
Hearing that the £4m owed by Lai will be repaid in February 2022
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 05:25:11 PM
Hearing that the £4m owed by Lai will be repaid in February 2022

Interesting. Is that off someone you know or is there a link please?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 19, 2022, 05:59:13 PM
Interesting. Is that off someone you know or is there a link please?

No links, but it’s kosher and will, no doubt, be reported by local jurno’s soon
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 10:41:07 PM
No links, but it’s kosher and will, no doubt, be reported by local jurno’s soon


Ok thanks for the update. I'd prefer it if he paid it now so we could go for a new CM but hey ho!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 19, 2022, 11:15:15 PM

Ok thanks for the update. I'd prefer it if he paid it now so we could go for a new CM but hey ho!

If it's guaranteed income there's nothing stopping us spending it now, but perhaps it's already been spent on Daryl Dike.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 11:24:33 PM
If it's guaranteed income there's nothing stopping us spending it now, but perhaps it's already been spent on Daryl Dike.


If you are right then things must be much worse than imagined!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 20, 2022, 12:03:11 AM
Hearing that the £4m owed by Lai will be repaid in February 2022

£4M? What are the fortune cookies telling you about the bloody interest payments  ;) ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 20, 2022, 12:55:34 AM
Hearing that the £4m owed by Lai will be repaid in February 2022

Probably using the £4m installment on Pereira
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 20, 2022, 11:17:20 AM
Thought the £4 million had increased to over £5 million with interest as every penny counts ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on January 22, 2022, 09:25:00 PM
Hearing that the £4m owed by Lai will be repaid in February 2022

“Ken promises £5million loan will be repaid to West Brom in February”

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2022/01/22/ken-promises-5million-loan-will-be-repaid-to-west-brom-in-february/

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on January 22, 2022, 11:55:20 PM
Probably using the £4m installment on Pereira

He can't do that in any legal sense. Obviously
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on January 23, 2022, 06:46:30 AM
Hearing that the £4m owed by Lai will be repaid in February 2022

To late to use in the January window maybe…….unless it’s guaranteed to be repaid
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 27, 2022, 12:46:40 AM
I know a few people on here have stated at various times they have knowledge of the way Chinese business operates culturally.

If (and I'm not wishing it on us) things went even further downhill and we went into league 1 etc in the next year or 2 and then his investment in us became next to worthless would they normally give up and get out or just hold till their investment is totally worthless?

Frankly I'm struggling to see any positive future for our club while Lai is here.

I'm not advocating or hoping for relegation let me be clear but I'm just exasperated with this guy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on January 27, 2022, 10:23:08 AM
I think we're heading towards a Venkys situation -  owner(s) who won't cut their losses and hang on too long until things get really toxic and they just have to run. The day Lai took over things began to fall apart and won't improve until he and his dis-interested backers leave.

The best thing Lai and Ken can do is to install some serious football experience quickly at board level and start again by building an actual football structure - and leave them/ us to it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on January 27, 2022, 10:31:57 AM
I've heard that we have no financial plan whatsoever and that the details of any "financial plan" are so vague and just reliant on us winning. What a state we are in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 27, 2022, 10:33:48 AM
I think we're heading towards a Venkys situation -  owner(s) who won't cut their losses and hang on too long until things get really toxic and they just have to run. The day Lai took over things began to fall apart and won't improve until he and his dis-interested backers leave.

The best thing Lai and Ken can do is to install some serious football experience quickly at board level and start again by building an actual football structure - and leave them/ us to it.

Spot on.  There is no rudder.  Paul Scharner wants that job! 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on January 27, 2022, 10:34:03 AM
I think we're heading towards a Venkys situation -  owner(s) who won't cut their losses and hang on too long until things get really toxic and they just have to run. The day Lai took over things began to fall apart and won't improve until he and his dis-interested backers leave.

The best thing Lai and Ken can do is to install some serious football experience quickly at board level and start again by building an actual football structure - and leave them/ us to it.

Venky's still own Blackburn though, they are now rebuilding and as we can see emplying the right people and are on the up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on January 27, 2022, 10:38:34 AM
In fairness to Lai and the board...They pulled the trigger on Bilic at the right time, made right appointment in Big Sam and took a risk on Val but one I endorsed at the time and as it seems have now pulled the trigger at the right time really (they had to give him time) so in terms of management they've been ruthless and correct.

To oppose that they probably should've gone for Wilder not Val but at the time it didn't seem like suicide.

I don't have a lot of faith in the board BUT they have proved me wrong a few times, here's to hoping they can again...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 27, 2022, 12:24:31 PM
Getting in explayer’s sounds great but in reality doesn’t really work out Big Dave case in point, new our youngsters inside out but instead of blooding them opted for the old age pensioners route. Anyone know what Paul has done since he’s hung up his boots.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on January 27, 2022, 12:49:23 PM
I don't expect Guochuan (family name first in most Asian countries) to do anything radical at the moment.  Everybody who has any sort of profile is keeping their head down as the spotlight must only fall on Chairman Xi .  As with the tennis player Peng Shui any sort of dissent is being punished by incarceration in Residential Surveillance at Designated Locations (RDSL) or black jails.  The includes one of the world's richest men Jack Ma who has disappeared after some technical criticism of the leadership's business policy.  Torture and isolation goes on at RDSL places.

Guochuan  won't want to step outside the current currency restrictions.  I don't think he'll want to do anything to draw attention to himself.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 28, 2022, 11:02:47 AM
If we drop out of automatic places I believe Lai should act and remove Ishmael think in hindsight he made the wrong decision in not appointing Wilder who in many ways probably suited the player’s at club. Now if he sacks coach can only see someone being promoted from back room staff to take over till end of season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on January 28, 2022, 11:39:33 AM
What league position is Wilder team in mate?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 28, 2022, 11:47:18 AM
What league position is Wilder team in mate?
no your question should be what position were they in when he took over mate?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 28, 2022, 11:51:44 AM
What league position is Wilder team in mate?

I can answer that liver, they are currently 8th, 3 points behind us. When Wilder took over they were 15th. They have won 4 of their last 5 games, only losing to a very 'in form' Blackburn. Over the same period we have won a hefty 4 points out of 15, so they have gained 8 points on us. It is highly likely that he will go above us in due course.

Wilder was probably the right choice but hindsight and all that.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 28, 2022, 11:57:57 AM
I can answer that liver, they are currently 8th, 3 points behind us. When Wilder took over they were 15th. They have won 4 of their last 5 games, only losing to a very 'in form Blackburn'. Over the same period we have won a hefty 4 points out of 15, so they have gained 8 points on us. It is highly likely that he will go above us in due course.

Wilder was probably the right choice but hindsight and all that.......
great self knowledge is a wonderful asset   ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 01, 2022, 08:16:19 AM
Happy and Prosperous Chinese New Year, Lai.

Now make ours the same, sack Val and sell the club ASAP. 😂.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 01, 2022, 09:39:20 AM
If anyone is interested in emailing Chinese New Year greetings or other issues to our Chairman and CEO their email addresses are below

li.piyue@wbafc.co.uk and xu.ke@wbafc.co.uk

Year-Long Good Luck in Water Tiger Year!

 :D Happy hunting :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Smethwickender93 on February 01, 2022, 09:45:40 AM
If anyone is interested in emailing Chinese New Year greetings or other issues to our Chairman and CEO their email addresses are below

li.piyue@wbafc.co.uk and xu.ke@wbafc.co.uk

Year-Long Good Luck in Water Tiger Year!

 :D Happy hunting :D


Done  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aussie Baggie on February 01, 2022, 10:41:56 AM
I'm a bit naive with all this so apologies if this is a stupid question, but what motivation does Mr Lai have for letting the club get to the point it is currently at?

Surely for him to get some return on his investment, he needs the team to win games. Why does he not see what we all see?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on February 01, 2022, 10:52:35 AM
I'm a bit naive with all this so apologies if this is a stupid question, but what motivation does Mr Lai have for letting the club get to the point it is currently at?

Surely for him to get some return on his investment, he needs the team to win games. Why does he not see what we all see?

Lai gets a lot of stick, but I don't think he has done a lot wrong over the years. That is not to say decisions have worked out well, but I can see why he (or his men) have made many decisions at the point he has made them.  It is not as easy as just try harder. If it was, every club could be progressing but the nature of a league dictates that for some clubs to progress, some must regress. 

It may be that Lai thinks he has tried switching and swapping managers and that hasn't worked, so he is just going to let this play out a little longer and have faith in a process.

When things are going badly, he is a very easy target.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 01, 2022, 11:01:52 AM
Lai gets a lot of stick, but I don't think he has done a lot wrong over the years. That is not to say decisions have worked out well, but I can see why he (or his men) have made many decisions at the point he has made them.  It is not as easy as just try harder. If it was, every club could be progressing but the nature of a league dictates that for some clubs to progress, some must regress. 

It may be that Lai thinks he has tried switching and swapping managers and that hasn't worked, so he is just going to let this play out a little longer and have faith in a process.

When things are going badly, he is a very easy target.


I don't think you're far off.

The analytical Val fits in quite nicely with the Chinese Psyche.

Also, they would understand the Tuckman model I referred to earlier, I think we're in the "storm" phase & this week we'll get a re set.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 01, 2022, 11:24:17 AM
Well if I was one of his share holders I’d be pulling my hair out at the lack of business nouse he possesses, for one bought a product for £50 or £60 million above its real valuation. Has no experience of running said business which if sold tomorrow would be lucky to recoup £50 million but other than that he’s doing great so happy new year dear leader.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 01, 2022, 11:28:40 AM
Well if I was one of his share holders I’d be pulling my hair out at the lack of business nouse he possesses, for one bought a product for £50 or £60 million above its real valuation. Has no experience of running said business which if sold tomorrow would be lucky to recoup £50 million but other than that he’s doing great so happy new year dear leader.

And therein lies the crux of the matter.

He must be a good businessman as he runs successful companies. However, football is a vastly different entity.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 01, 2022, 11:36:26 AM
And remember, he didn't pay the whole £188,000,000 or whatever it was himself. It was a group purchase. Lai's the front man.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 01, 2022, 11:40:22 AM
And therein lies the crux of the matter.

He must be a good businessman as he runs successful companies. However, football is a vastly different entity.
or is he a good comrade who has friends in high places which from what little I’ve seen of how he runs a business could be a factor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 01, 2022, 11:45:15 AM
or is he a good comrade who has friends in high places which from what little I’ve seen of how he runs a business could be a factor.

That could also be a telling factor and if so, it would appear, to the layman, that they also have no understanding or appreciation of what owning and running a football club entails.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 01, 2022, 11:47:59 AM
And therein lies the crux of the matter.

He must be a good businessman as he runs successful companies. However, football is a vastly different entity.

Spot on. Just because he's been successful elsewhere doesn't mean it carries over into other sectors. His time here has been disastrous. Constantly trying to do as little as possible slowly grinding us down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 01, 2022, 11:54:07 AM
He's also been shafted several times over. Peace. Williams. Goodman. Pulis. The Man from Delmonte. Dowling. The Bilic fallout........ etc. Yes he's made mistakes but the 'football people' have also let him down badly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 01, 2022, 11:55:04 AM
He's also been shafted several times over. Peace. Williams. Goodman. Pulis. The Man from Delmonte. Dowling. The Bilic fallout........ etc. Yes he's made mistakes but the 'football people' have also let him down badly.

Who appointed those people? All rubbish I agree.

He needs to be looking at that person
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 01, 2022, 11:59:57 AM
Who appointed those people? All rubbish I agree.

He needs to be looking at that person

Well, he certainly didn't appoint the ones who got the ball rolling did he  ;) ? When you're caught in an avalanche it can be trickier to get out the way than it first appears. I genuinely think he's had the best of intentions and been taken for an absolute mug by people who are supposed to know better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 01, 2022, 12:10:33 PM
A genuine question with no arteria motive

What footballing people?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 01, 2022, 12:10:44 PM
Well, he certainly didn't appoint the ones who got the ball rolling did he  ;) ? When you're caught in an avalanche it can be trickier to get out the way than it first appears. I genuinely think he's had the best of intentions and been taken for an absolute mug by people who are supposed to know better.

He was in charge when Pulis was lazily given an extension. If he wants to just own the thing and do nothing I have no sympathy for the bloke.

As for whether he's a nice guy that's been let down it's neither here nor there.

If he's being consistently let down why doesn't he get more involved?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on February 01, 2022, 12:19:11 PM
He was in charge when Pulis was lazily given an extension. If he wants to just own the thing and do nothing I have no sympathy for the bloke.

As for whether he's a nice guy that's been let down it's neither here nor there.

If he's being consistently let down why doesn't he get more involved?

What does getting more involved look like for you? 

Hiring and firing more regularly? Scouting, taking training?   I know I'm being ridiculous with the latter two but I genuinely don't know what involvement you are suggesting he should have.

You could say he should make the effort to attend more games, and possibly engage with the fans better but that wouldnt change anything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 01, 2022, 12:26:28 PM
What does getting more involved look like for you? 

Hiring and firing more regularly? Scouting, taking training?   I know I'm being ridiculous with the latter two but I genuinely don't know what involvement you are suggesting he should have.

You could say he should make the effort to attend more games, and possibly engage with the fans better but that wouldnt change anything.

More involved means doing anything more than the bare minimum, stop letting your underlings make mistake after mistake. Ultimately the buck stops with Lai.

People who sit back and say i pay other people to do stuff badly for me so it's not my fault always fail.

Slippery shoulders at the top levels of the club has brought us to where we are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 01, 2022, 12:29:39 PM
He was in charge when Pulis was lazily given an extension. If he wants to just own the thing and do nothing I have no sympathy for the bloke.

As for whether he's a nice guy that's been let down it's neither here nor there.

If he's being consistently let down why doesn't he get more involved?

I don't need a history lesson and I'm not making excuses for some questionable decisions either. There's no way I'd have extended Pulis's contract for instance but I can see the rationale of someone who doesn't spend much time at games doing so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 01, 2022, 12:34:34 PM
A genuine question with no arteria motive

What footballing people?

That's one L of a question but here goes. Williams, Goodman, Del Monte Man, Dowling and Gourlay on the football administration side. Pulis (allegedly), along with Bilic and Ismael on the actual football side. Please don't tell me I've answered in vein.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 01, 2022, 12:35:55 PM
I don't need a history lesson and I'm not making excuses for some questionable decisions either. There's no way I'd have extended Pulis's contract for instance but I can see the rationale of someone who doesn't spend much time at games doing so.

PUlis contract is what got the ball started in my opinion. He neither deserved it or wanted it until his lawsuit but they were so thoughtless/careless/lazy, i really don't know which, they gave him one anyway.

I'm not saying Lai is making these calls directly but what i'm saying is he's hardly paying attention to his investment going down the pan.

As you say he's essentially a front man, maybe he doesn't have a lot of skin in the game himself so that's why he's not bothered.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 01, 2022, 12:40:45 PM
Sorry. Got to try one of those work break things now. Don't see the attraction personally but hey ho  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on February 01, 2022, 12:42:34 PM
More involved means doing anything more than the bare minimum, stop letting your underlings make mistake after mistake. Ultimately the buck stops with Lai.

People who sit back and say i pay other people to do stuff badly for me so it's not my fault always fail.

Slippery shoulders at the top levels of the club has brought us to where we are.

We know very little about how involved he has been with big decisions, but if it transpired he had made them all, I’m certain people would be saying how foolish that was.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 01, 2022, 12:43:08 PM
I think football club owners, in general, some before, but defiantly many after the "Fan Led Review" and the Super League debacle, know appear to be embarrassing PR and are more willing to engage with fans.

PR is a great tool in the difficult area of changing opinions, altering perceptions of how fans perceive you, which is a department Albion owners have been found wanting in.

Even JRP appreciated its value, even if he did ignore it when it went against him  ;D

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 01, 2022, 12:45:01 PM
We know very little about how involved he has been with big decisions, but if it transpired he had made them all, I’m certain people would be saying how foolish that was.

I don't know. It tends to come out eg Wilder. He's generally reported as being VERY hands off. Only when his business appearance/ego was at risk did he get involved to stop Wilders appointment.

Again it's not just him it's those below him as well and only Lai has the power to change them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ronnie Allen on February 01, 2022, 12:49:54 PM
Lai gets a lot of stick, but I don't think he has done a lot wrong over the years. That is not to say decisions have worked out well, but I can see why he (or his men) have made many decisions at the point he has made them.  It is not as easy as just try harder. If it was, every club could be progressing but the nature of a league dictates that for some clubs to progress, some must regress. 

It may be that Lai thinks he has tried switching and swapping managers and that hasn't worked, so he is just going to let this play out a little longer and have faith in a process.

When things are going badly, he is a very easy target.


I’m in sympathy with a lot of this. For what my two-pennorth is worth I think Lai has been naive and unlucky on two counts.

First, he bought from Jeremy Peace. From the moment JP decided to get rid of the club, it’s been on the skids. I think he wanted to preserve the club’s status as a EPL team without putting in the investment needed to keep it developing and competitive. So by the time Lai bought, the damage had already  been done. The investment and know how needed to retrieve the situation re scouting, player recruitment, sport science, medical personnel and facilities, not to mention the effective management of the whole system, was absent.

Second, Lai paid over the odds at, reportedly, £150m. This falls at Lai’s door, caveat emptor and all that, but shows what seems to be a worrying naivety on his part. It’s possible, of course that Lai never intended this as a business venture, but as a way of staying onside with the Chinese powers that be, who, at the time we’re encouraging the buying up of football clubs in the top leagues. If that was the case, he is doubly unlucky, as no sooner had he got his proxy’s feet under the boardroom table than the Chinese government did a complete volte-face and stopped money leaving the country.  This has left Lai trying to manage his asset at a distance of 10,000 miles, using people he hardly knows in an industry he, quite possibly, doesn’t really understand, with no likelihood of being in a position to provide any financial assistance. His asset is worth very little now compared to what he paid for it. To boost its value we have to return to the EPL. Every passing week that seems more and more remote.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 01, 2022, 12:51:46 PM
A genuine question with no arteria motive

What footballing people?

You are asking that in vein mate.
You need to get the heart of this matter!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 01, 2022, 01:04:40 PM
I don't know. It tends to come out eg Wilder. He's generally reported as being VERY hands off. Only when his business appearance/ego was at risk did he get involved to stop Wilders appointment.

Again it's not just him it's those below him as well and only Lai has the power to change them.

People tend to forget that Lai is not an employee of the business, whereas Peace was.

From my own experience of dealing with the Chinese in business, they tend to be very formal & with a strict hierarchy.

Wilder's criticism of his Chairman, would not have been received well, so I'm not sure it was anything to do with ego, more of a cultural thing.

I don't know a lot about Lai, but it was said that he had a number of other interests in China, & because of that we could expect a hands off approach.

I suspect he gets involved in the bigger decisions, but the day to day is left to Ken.

IMO, Lai's biggest mistake was to allow Williams, Goodman & Pulis to take overreaching financial risks with recruitment in our first relegation season. £40 odd million of accumulated cash was wiped out that season, & IMO we've been paying for it ever since.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 01, 2022, 01:06:48 PM
People tend to forget that Lai is not an employee of the business, whereas Peace was.

From my own experience of dealing with the Chinese in business, they tend to be very formal & with a strict hierarchy.

Wilder's criticism of his Chairman, would not have been received well, so I'm not sure it was anything to do with ego, more of a cultural thing.

I don't know a lot about Lai, but it was said that he had a number of other interests in China, & because of that we could expect a hands off approach.

I suspect he gets involved in the bigger decisions, but the day to day is left to Ken.

IMO, Lai's biggest mistake was to allow Williams, Goodman & Pulis to take overreaching financial risks with recruitment in our first relegation season. £40 odd million of accumulated cash was wiped out that season, & IMO we've been paying for it ever since.


Hear you on the cultural thing John but that doesn't help us at all!

If he wants to be hands off but all i'm saying is he is now reaping what he sowed (or didn't, might be more apt)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on February 01, 2022, 01:07:35 PM
People tend to forget that Lai is not an employee of the business, whereas Peace was.

From my own experience of dealing with the Chinese in business, they tend to be very formal & with a strict hierarchy.

Wilder's criticism of his Chairman, would not have been received well, so I'm not sure it was anything to do with ego, more of a cultural thing.

I don't know a lot about Lai, but it was said that he had a number of other interests in China, & because of that we could expect a hands off approach.

I suspect he gets involved in the bigger decisions, but the day to day is left to Ken.

IMO, Lai's biggest mistake was to allow Williams, Goodman & Pulis to take overreaching financial risks with recruitment in our first relegation season. £40 odd million of accumulated cash was wiped out that season, & IMO we've been paying for it ever since.

What about blowing nearly all the budget sigining three left wingers when we were promoted - that was very poor by Ken/Dowling/Billic
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 01, 2022, 01:07:43 PM
You are asking that in vein mate.
You need to get the heart of this matter!

Lol. I'm having a bad keyboard day, Dan's had to help me out earlier as well  ;D

"Ulterior"

PS. do you have an answer to my query by the way?  8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on February 01, 2022, 01:16:28 PM
What about blowing nearly all the budget sigining three left wingers when we were promoted - that was very poor by Ken/Dowling/Billic

I think id blame Dowling and Bilic more than Ken. 

We have a budget and you have to trust the director of football and manager to use that. If Ken and Lai started dictating signings and positions then where does it end? Do they pick the team next?




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 01, 2022, 01:17:46 PM
What about blowing nearly all the budget sigining three left wingers when we were promoted - that was very poor by Ken/Dowling/Billic


Well yes................directors of football who think they know better than the head coach, think I've mentioned that before somewhere  :)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 01, 2022, 01:45:04 PM
Lol. I'm having a bad keyboard day, Dan's had to help me out earlier as well  ;D

"Ulterior"

PS. do you have an answer to my query by the way?  8)

I gave you an answer at 12:34. Did the arterial vein joke at the same time but it was clearly in vain......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 01, 2022, 05:39:11 PM
I gave you an answer at 12:34. Did the arterial vein joke at the same time but it was clearly in vain......

Somehow managed to miss your response

My question was more about our current set up and situation rather than the past 👍
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 01, 2022, 06:31:27 PM
Lol. I'm having a bad keyboard day, Dan's had to help me out earlier as well  ;D

"Ulterior"

PS. do you have an answer to my query by the way?  8)

To be honest, I can’t remember which “footballing people” were on board the gravy train at any point in time, sorry
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 01, 2022, 07:08:58 PM

IMO, Lai's biggest mistake was to allow Williams, Goodman & Pulis to take overreaching financial risks with recruitment in our first relegation season. £40 odd million of accumulated cash was wiped out that season, & IMO we've been paying for it ever since.

I am in agreement with this - totally.

Peace and Jenkins built this football club on solid financial reserves and that summer we managed to successfully blow the lot.

We’ve never recovered from that summer.

Nor have we recovered from the decision to appoint Pardew. That was a big cultural shift from Pulis to Pardew which should have happened in the summer.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but our best performances that season were under Megson.

He was a far more likelier fit than Pardew until the end of the season.

And the football club would have been a damn sight happier for it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on February 01, 2022, 07:57:14 PM
Agreed. It was so strange that the minute we loosened the purse strings we utterly wasted every penny on complete dross. Oddly we all thought a lot of them were good buys before they played.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on February 01, 2022, 08:52:52 PM
I am in agreement with this - totally.

Peace and Jenkins built this football club on solid financial reserves and that summer we managed to successfully blow the lot.

We’ve never recovered from that summer.

Nor have we recovered from the decision to appoint Pardew. That was a big cultural shift from Pulis to Pardew which should have happened in the summer.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but our best performances that season were under Megson.

He was a far more likelier fit than Pardew until the end of the season.

And the football club would have been a damn sight happier for it.

I feel like the real story that season was the sheer amount of points we threw away from winning positions, 22 in total. In comparison we gained a grand total of 2 points from losing positions. Most of it was thrown away in the last 15 minutes.

It was an odd season. That squad should never have been relegated, and if they had even some level of resilience they'd have stayed up comfortably.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 02, 2022, 07:27:32 AM
Whatever the thoughts of that season's management a number of players in that squad simply did not give of their best. Different management now, different players now (Phillips apart), similar scenario. Either we're cursed or we have a habit of recruiting players lacking character and with hearts of jellyfish.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on February 02, 2022, 08:04:02 PM
Perhaps him taking the chairman's roll along with the new ceo that is the springboard for him to sell.
Or dare I say get more hands on to spend?
Theyre not stupid these Chinese are they, he'll pay himself a salary now and if any divi or he'll probably
just pay himself a salary and call it a divi to pay less tax
Also I assume he can take his money into China but not out of China any experts on here if that's still the case?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 02, 2022, 08:25:22 PM
Perhaps him taking the chairman's roll along with the new ceo that is the springboard for him to sell.
Or dare I say get more hands on to spend?
Theyre not stupid these Chinese are they, he'll pay himself a salary now and if any divi or he'll probably
just pay himself a salary and call it a divi to pay less tax
Also I assume he can take his money into China but not out of China any experts on here if that's still the case?

It's still the case that if he takes a dividend, the other shareholders would also also have to be paid.
Although he's entitled to a salary, you would think he has means other than WBA so he takes a token amount.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on February 02, 2022, 08:35:48 PM
I hope he has come chairmen because he wants to be more involved not because he needs the money and can draw a salary
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 02, 2022, 09:27:53 PM
I hope he has come chairmen because he wants to be more involved not because he needs the money and can draw a salary
Wants his £4m back
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on February 02, 2022, 09:32:22 PM
I think it's quite refreshing that the guys who hire this managers have to face the music as well as the guy himself.
He has proved it again, he does stand fools well, and I applaud him for that, not much else it as to be said.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 02, 2022, 10:25:27 PM
I hope he has come chairmen because he wants to be more involved not because he needs the money and can draw a salary

I think it’s more of a case that the investors want to know why we’ve paid £2m for someone and been forced to pay more compensation 8 months later.

He’s took his eye off the ball and appointed his mates who have next to little experience in running a club.

This is as much about protecting his investment than wanting a wage from the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 02, 2022, 10:37:54 PM
Hope Lai and other share holders realise that what ever division we are in next season the first team needs massive investment and Coach who ever he is needs to be backed whether it be in signings or moving on dead wood.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on February 03, 2022, 07:34:19 AM
The one crumb of comfort I have from our slow descent into Championship also ran status is the fact that the bloke who's awful custodianship is taking us there - Guochuan Lai - is going to lose an absolute fortune on his investment.

Every cloud hey  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 03, 2022, 02:47:51 PM
The one crumb of comfort I have from our slow descent into Championship also ran status is the fact that the bloke who's awful custodianship is taking us there - Guochuan Lai - is going to lose an absolute fortune on his investment.

Every cloud hey  :D

How long it takes to sell the club is a bigger issue I fear. We could end up in a situation like the Allam's at Hull.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on February 03, 2022, 03:03:51 PM
The stick that everyone was beating him with was that he was totally disinterested. He has taken action appointed a new CEO, is changing the structure and is about to appoint a new head coach. Within days the narrative has changed to the CEO is a failure and the most likely head coach is as well.
The fact that he has made changes is a good sign, he obviously is as worried as we are. He looks to be appointing people with a football background, it seems as though more changes are coming.
I hope he, and we, get a break and this works out. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on February 03, 2022, 03:10:47 PM
People on here talk about the Chinese people and that they don't like to lose face
I wonder if that's due to Lai taking a more allegedly hands on roll?
Someone high up in the Chinese government might be leaning on him and ordering him to sort it out because his efforts or lack of are em embarrassing the heirachy?
Just a thought anyway
I suppose it's really him trying to get his money back or even a profit
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on February 03, 2022, 03:59:54 PM
Remember as Chairman he can claim for a salary.

What that salary would be who knows ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on February 03, 2022, 04:41:34 PM
Something big seems to be cooking with the property market in China with Evergrande seemingly in big trouble. With Lai and his backers (whoever they are) maybe (funnily enough) Albion is seen as a safer investment being offshore than some his existing ones in Palm which are connected to the real estate market.  I've always wondered if it was also a valid way to transfer Yen to GBP and vice versa.

Lai is not rejoining the party for no reason.........hmmmm? Hopefully he wants to get hands on to sell
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 03, 2022, 07:29:12 PM
Yen - Japan    Yuan - china

Evergrande are based in Guanzhou as are Palm,  The Guanzhou region is a manufacturing powerhouse which has been hit by global downturn. They have much bigger things to worry about than a football club on the other side of the planet in that region.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dynamo10 on February 19, 2022, 09:40:18 PM
I'm glad to see that this charlatan's ambition (or lack of) has now been matched by sections of our fanbase, who now wouldn't mind falling into League One because it was fun last time.  >:(

This is what we've resorted to, is it? Falling further behind the Villa and Wolves just so people can have a good day out at the likes of Morecambe?!

Absolutely shambolic.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 19, 2022, 10:51:54 PM
I'm glad to see that this charlatan's ambition (or lack of) has now been matched by sections of our fanbase, who now wouldn't mind falling into League One because it was fun last time.  >:(

This is what we've resorted to, is it? Falling further behind the Villa and Wolves just so people can have a good day out at the likes of Morecambe?!

Absolutely shambolic.
Not seen anyone suggesting that is desirable
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dynamo10 on February 19, 2022, 10:58:54 PM
Not seen anyone suggesting that is desirable

I've seen several on Twitter (should probably have said where I saw it, apologies)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 19, 2022, 11:17:45 PM
I've seen several on Twitter (should probably have said where I saw it, apologies)
Enough said, no need to apologise mate
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on February 20, 2022, 05:17:18 PM
If ever they run a course on how not manage / run a business, then we will be top of the list. What a complete and utter shambles the 'Lai' years have been. It's staggering the mistakes that have happened on his watch. There are countless poor decisions, the recruitment since he arrived has been abysmal, both on and off the pitch. This club has systematically undone all the hard work of the previous 15 to 20 years. We are back to square one pretty much, hoping for some luck to get promoted. Dear god I remember the dark days of the late 80's, and I fear we could return to them very soon. The next 3 months will make or break this club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KYA on February 20, 2022, 06:02:55 PM
Lai as a big decision to make carry on the way he has been cutting the team down to the bone he is going to lose a lot of money with no chance of recouping it or he settles on a manager backs him in the transfer market giving us a decent shot at promotion next season and if achieved the club being worth X amount.
IMO I can only see him choosing the former I hope I'm proved wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on February 20, 2022, 06:11:16 PM
The guy just simply have to leave. He should apologise and sell the club for 25-30 mil to some mega rich oligarch and turn us in to Man City part 2. Oh well it’s good to dream !!
 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 20, 2022, 07:05:45 PM
The recent comments on this thread are quite revealing.

There appears to be two views of GL.

One suggests that he & his consortium are multi-millionaires & could easily afford to take a loss of around £100 million in order to off-load the club.
The reasons he doesn't is geared around Chinese politics.

Personally, from the briefings when his consortium purchased WBA Holdings from JP, I believe our future funding was to be related to the success of Palm.
There may well be constraints geared around Chinese politics, but IMO, he can't sell because he can't afford to, in other words, we're stuck with him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 20, 2022, 07:06:28 PM
The guy just simply have to leave. He should apologise and sell the club for 25-30 mil to some mega rich oligarch and turn us in to Man City part 2. Oh well it’s good to dream !!

Our owners (and I'm 99% sure Lai is just the frontman for a consortium) will not sell us for such a low price to anybody, for two reasons:

1/ They now know that they massively overpaid for what they've got, and they want their money back.

2/ To accept less (especially if we were sold at our actual value) would see them lose face back home.

They'll try to hold on and either get their money back, or until they literally can't anymore.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on February 20, 2022, 08:05:23 PM
Our owners (and I'm 99% sure Lai is just the frontman for a consortium) will not sell us for such a low price to anybody, for two reasons:

1/ They now know that they massively overpaid for what they've got, and they want their money back.

2/ To accept less (especially if we were sold at our actual value) would see them lose face back home.

They'll try to hold on and either get their money back, or until they literally can't anymore.

We're in a venkys style purgatory with owners who don't have a clue, no money to invest and no opportunity to sell because we're so badly run we won't get promoted anytime soon.

Not sure where we as fans go from here with Lai other than making it obvious Lai isn't welcome until he cuts his losses.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 21, 2022, 11:06:04 AM
Steve Madeley just Tweeted

Albion directors have been sent letters from lawyers over the controversial 2014 loan to former owner Jeremy Peace.

https://theathletic.com/news/west-brom-shareholders-hire-law-firm-to-lead-case-over-loan-to-former-owner-peace/SXJ9almWQfKI/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 21, 2022, 02:23:33 PM
He knows that we could be top of the division next season. Trouble is, it could be League 1.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on February 21, 2022, 04:57:03 PM
He knows that we could be top of the division next season. Trouble is, it could be League 1.

Even this bunch of wasters would find playing League One football next season any impossible task  8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on February 21, 2022, 05:06:00 PM
Even this bunch of wasters would find playing League One football next season any impossible task  8)
Not going to be next season but it’s totally realistic for the season after. We are certainly not going to beat the top end of the Championship with the current crop of players. Most will still be here next season another year older and certainly no fitter or better!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dynamo10 on February 21, 2022, 08:46:53 PM
We're in a venkys style purgatory with owners who don't have a clue, no money to invest and no opportunity to sell because we're so badly run we won't get promoted anytime soon.

Not sure where we as fans go from here with Lai other than making it obvious Lai isn't welcome until he cuts his losses.

Funnily enough, we have had plenty of opportunities to do so since fans were allowed to return to the stadiums. It should have been done at the end of last season (West Ham game?) with the train wreck of a campaign that it was, but those who were able to go decided they were just happy to be there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on February 21, 2022, 09:46:54 PM
I see a convoy of trucks heading for the Hawthorns anytime soon!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: staticboy on February 22, 2022, 09:44:37 PM
Well Lai, how do you feel now?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on February 22, 2022, 09:45:32 PM
If no investment is forthcoming in the summer this lot will be getting relegated no doubts about it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 22, 2022, 09:45:56 PM
Here is the bloke who is responsible for the clubs downfall.

This season he put his appearance/vanity/ego whatever ahead of the clubs success and here we are.

This bloke is poison. I fear he will be here for some time to come as well.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on February 22, 2022, 09:46:05 PM
Dear Mr Lai I'll give you £50 for the club and that's being generous
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 22, 2022, 09:48:26 PM
Dear Mr Lai I'll give you £50 for the club and that's being generous
 
1 pence is the going rate. And he has to give the hand shake and bow, PERSONALLY !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on February 22, 2022, 09:49:30 PM
Well Jeremy promised to sell to someone that would take us to the next level. By this time next year we may have surpassed his expectations and moved 2 levels  - Down!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 22, 2022, 09:50:04 PM
Well Jeremy promised to sell to someone that would take us to the next level. By this time next year we may have surpassed his expectations and moved 2 levels  - Down!!


What a coincidence it just happened to be the bloke who offered Jezza the most money as well  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on February 22, 2022, 09:53:25 PM
End of the day he sanctioned the £8m for Dike in Jan, it’s not really an investment issue whilst we’re in the Championship. The issue is that he just doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing. And the people he’s got running the club on the day-to-day are probably about as bad as you can get as far as professional football goes, he sacks them and then appoints people just as bad.

This club is going backwards until this misguided idiot stops leaving it in the hands of the Dowling’s and Gourlay’s of this world.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on February 22, 2022, 09:56:14 PM
I've said it before, but I smile at the fact he is going to lose millions on this investment - silver linings and all. To think Xi Jinping is also having a crackdown on China's Billionaires as well - you deserve this Guochuan, I wish I could be a fly on the wall.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on February 22, 2022, 09:59:52 PM
End of the day he sanctioned the £8m for Dike in Jan, it’s not really an investment issue whilst we’re in the Championship. The issue is that he just doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing. And the people he’s got running the club on the day-to-day are probably about as bad as you can get as far as professional football goes, he sacks them and then appoints people just as bad. This club is going backwards until this misguided idiot stops leaving it in the hands of the Dowling’s and Gourlay’s of this world.

Dowling recommendation to appoint Wilder in the summer is looking pretty shrewd now and Val record in charge of this squad gets better every game that passes with Bruce in charge. I haven't changed my mind that the constant sacking of managers every six months has ruined us, especially this season. As you note, even more bizarre given Dike was just signed for big money and the window closed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on February 22, 2022, 10:00:19 PM
End of the day he sanctioned the £8m for Dike in Jan, it’s not really an investment issue whilst we’re in the Championship. The issue is that he just doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing. And the people he’s got running the club on the day-to-day are probably about as bad as you can get as far as professional football goes, he sacks them and then appoints people just as bad.

This club is going backwards until this misguided idiot stops leaving it in the hands of the Dowling’s and Gourlay’s of this world.

Cracking post that nails the issue.

Despite what many say, investment isn't the main issue - it's how clueless he is and the poor boardroom level appointments he keeps making.

Nice but hapless family friend Xu Ke
Useless wide boy Luke Dowling
The anonymous Li Puyue

Now we have Ron "back to basics" (back to the 90's) Gourlay
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dynamo10 on February 22, 2022, 10:01:11 PM
No shadow of a doubt that we'll be in the wilderness for quite some time as long as this man owns our football club.

Mr Lai, you have single-handedly undone the hard work of those before you. It is all well and good stating you wanted to run the club in a sustainable manner but you have proven time and again that you do not have the capability to do so. The recruitment of players have been shambolic, the performances of certain stalwart players has been even worse and whilst our rivals have built on what they have, we have done the complete opposite without any hesitation.

It is about time you forgot about saving face in your homeland and do the right thing by yourself, the club and its supporters. Take the hit on what you paid and get as far away from here as you possibly can.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on February 22, 2022, 10:02:22 PM
Lai's ownership slowly killing the club . Time the fans made him aware how unwelcome he is i think
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on February 22, 2022, 10:11:05 PM
We either need to go up and stay up so he can recoup his money or sink lower and lower so he has to take whatever he can. Unfortunately the latter looks more and more likely.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dynamo10 on February 22, 2022, 10:15:47 PM
We either need to go up and stay up so he can recoup his money or sink lower and lower so he has to take whatever he can. Unfortunately the latter looks more and more likely.

No chance we see the Premier League again whilst he's still about.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 22, 2022, 10:17:28 PM
No chance we see the Premier League again whilst he's still about.

More likely to see the Northern Premier League the longer he's here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ttree30 on February 22, 2022, 10:41:38 PM
Is this guy really a businessman? Or is he akin to those Russian oligarchs who end up making fortunes because they’re in with the gang at the top, rather than because they have any business ability at all?

I have rarely seen something run quite as badly as West Bromwich Albion over the past three or four years. It has been a wonder to behold.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on February 22, 2022, 10:52:24 PM
Is this guy really a businessman? Or is he akin to those Russian oligarchs who end up making fortunes because they’re in with the gang at the top, rather than because they have any business ability at all?

I have rarely seen something run quite as badly as West Bromwich Albion over the past three or four years. It has been a wonder to behold.

It stands a chance that his fortune owes as much to luck and connections as it does to business acumen yeah. That is true around the world but particularly so in countries like China and Russia.

Then again Ron Gourlay was a success outside of football, but at Reading and now here he has seen sides he is involved with tank.

Football is a unique business and being over confident in your own ability due to non footballing successes is a recipe for disaster. Too many executives fail to fully grasp that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 23, 2022, 12:05:59 AM
What worries me is that realistically we are going to be stuck with these bang average players for at least two or three more seasons. Can see no club that will be really interested in any of them especially with the wages they are on. Parachute payments next season will be swallowed up by what looks like these ridiculous salaries, if we don’t get up next year can only see a fire sale of prized assets the likes of Dike and O’Shea to cover short fall. Can even see sale of ground and training facilities on table, club looks like it’s in a right mess.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tlms-p23 on February 23, 2022, 12:51:24 AM
The fact the ownership is so opaque really muddies the waters - it's hard to know how much the declining value of West Brom as an asset is an issue for Lai (if he owns it outright) or the company he fronts (if he is just the frontman).

If he's the frontman of a group with a diverse portfolio of interests and the others are doing okay, the on-pitch failure, declining value and nose-diving fortunes of West Brom may be an inconvenience, but what is a £100m decrease in a fringe asset if the rest of your £4bn pot is doing well? Explains his 3+yr absence while leaving the club in the hands of a series of goons. Just not bothered. The stakes aren't high.

It's not 2016 anymore. China aren't interested in UK football investment and Lai + cronies no doubt have bigger, more lucrative fish to fry away from the volatile world of football. What does it matter to them that West Brom are a mess on their watch?

The aforementioned goons have left us in an almighty mess, with a total absence of financial or squad management. We aren't beggars at the feast in the Championship, we're more monied than the vast majority. We've just pi$$ed our financial advantage up the wall on bargain basement swill. £15m Grant. £15m Diangana. £8m Zohore. £20-30k a week for half the squad on long contracts.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 23, 2022, 12:58:15 AM
The fact the ownership is so opaque really muddies the waters - it's hard to know how much the declining value of West Brom as an asset is an issue for Lai (if he owns it outright) or the company he fronts (if he is just the frontman).

If he's the frontman of a group with a diverse portfolio of interests and the others are doing okay, the on-pitch failure, declining value and nose-diving fortunes of West Brom may be an inconvenience, but what is a £100m decrease in a fringe asset if the rest of your £4bn pot is doing well? Explains his 3+yr absence while leaving the club in the hands of a series of goons. Just not bothered. The stakes aren't high.

It's not 2016 anymore. China aren't interested in UK football investment and Lai + cronies no doubt have bigger, more lucrative fish to fry away from the volatile world of football. What does it matter to them that West Brom are a mess on their watch?

The aforementioned goons have left us in an almighty mess, with a total absence of financial or squad management. We aren't beggars at the feast in the Championship, we're more monied than the vast majority. We've just pi$$ed our financial advantage up the wall on bargain basement swill. £15m Grant. £15m Diangana. £8m Zohore. £20-30k a week for half the squad on long contracts.
clearly bloke isn’t interested but if we lose parachute payments who is going to pay those players on 20 or 30 k a week when Championship prize money is pittance and inevitable dwindling match day revenue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on February 23, 2022, 01:06:07 PM
I wonder if Mr Lai knows where Cambridge or Fleetwood are? Best he invest in a road map for 2023
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 28, 2022, 10:12:46 PM
Please sell up and sod off before you lose all your money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on February 28, 2022, 10:13:59 PM
sell up to who? not sure anyone would see this as a good investment
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 28, 2022, 10:16:27 PM
sell up to who? not sure anyone would see this as a good investment

It's still a good investment as long as price is reasonable. Lai and his boys are waayyyy out of their depth. He will have nothing left to sell in a few more years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 28, 2022, 10:17:27 PM
Just a gullible chancer. Ask Delboy
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on February 28, 2022, 10:18:04 PM
the word reasonable is a problem. i can't see us being worth much more than 60million at this point and Lai wants his money back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 28, 2022, 10:20:05 PM
the word reasonable is a problem. i can't see us being worth much more than 60million at this point and Lai wants his money back.

Well he's mindless then. He must understand he is clueless when it comes to football along with his advisors. He's knocked off 120m of the club's value in 6 years. If he drops us out the champo in a year or 2 which I believe he will if he remains he can knock another 30m off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 28, 2022, 10:21:44 PM
Well he's mindless then. He must understand he is clueless when it comes to football along with his advisors. He's knocked off 120m of the club's value in 6 years. If he drops us out the champo in a year or 2 which I believe he will if he remains he can knock another 30m off.

Say no more.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: caravanc58 on February 28, 2022, 10:28:28 PM
He'll need to spend some money reducing the capacity soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 28, 2022, 10:57:38 PM
There’s the Midas touch which turns everything to gold and Lai’s  touch which is turning Albion to pooh.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on March 01, 2022, 08:03:42 AM
Any offers he may have turned down will look like a Kings ransom in the coming months. This time next year, if things don't improve he will be looking at about £30m tops :)
Swerves him right, but unfortunately the club and fans are the ones that will suffer. The players will still be laughing all the way to the bank mind.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dynamo10 on March 01, 2022, 10:27:55 AM
In the name of God, go. How long before we start showing what we really think/want at games? It's all well and good hammering the players (which is justified by the way) but at the end of the day we still have this imbecile running the club and things will continue to get worse whilst that is the case. >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on March 01, 2022, 10:32:59 AM
He and his mystery backers have three options I think
1) remain involved and watch the club continue fall to God knows where (League One is our 'bottom' I'd guess)
2) maintain a financial investment but hand over complete control to Peace or someone who can actually run a club from top to bottom.
3) Sell up

Option 3 is by far my preferred if not realistic

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on March 01, 2022, 10:46:58 AM
He and his mystery backers have three options I think
1) remain involved and watch the club continue fall to God knows where (League One is our 'bottom' I'd guess)
2) maintain a financial investment but hand over complete control to Peace or someone who can actually run a club from top to bottom.
3) Sell up

Option 3 is by far my preferred if not realistic

While I agree, they won't do anything. They are like rabbits in the headlights, scared to death of their investment plummeting in value and yet in the process achieving exactly that.

Peace really did drop us right in it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 01, 2022, 10:57:11 AM
I actually dread to think of the calibre of owners we will attract should Lai and co cut and run at a low price. The saving grace of him wanting as much of their money back as possible is that it keeps the opportunistic carpet baggers at bay. We're in such an odd place as a club....... caught between a rock and a hard place.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on March 01, 2022, 11:03:22 AM
Wonder if the price drops enough , peace might be interested in buying us back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on March 01, 2022, 11:12:00 AM
Wonder if the price drops enough , peace might be interested in buying us back.


I truly hope not
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on March 01, 2022, 11:22:51 AM
Wonder if the price drops enough , peace might be interested in buying us back.

Let's hope so! I was in the better the devil you know camp and I would much prefer to go back to the Peace era than the current one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on March 01, 2022, 11:25:43 AM
He and his mystery backers have three options I think
1) remain involved and watch the club continue fall to God knows where (League One is our 'bottom' I'd guess)
2) maintain a financial investment but hand over complete control to Peace or someone who can actually run a club from top to bottom.
3) Sell up

Option 3 is by far my preferred if not realistic

Option 4 - Asset strips the club, sells the ground and cuts his losses.

It could get a lot lot worse.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on March 01, 2022, 11:28:56 AM
Option 4 - Asset strips the club, sells the ground and cuts his losses.

It could get a lot lot worse.
#
What assets - the ground and training ground is worth relative peanuts and there's certainly no assets in the squad. He'd be better off selling for  a low amount now than doing that - even if he could which I'm not sure he could?

Lai is here for the long haul in a Venky's style slow decline
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 01, 2022, 11:34:23 AM
Option 4 - Asset strips the club, sells the ground and cuts his losses.

It could get a lot lot worse.

I am dreading the moment when I hear that we have sold our ground to the Chinese consortium and they will rent it back to us, just so we can raise enough cash for a few more Karlan Grants and Grady Dianganas.

It has happened to the bluenoses only last year so it is a possibility
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 01, 2022, 12:06:48 PM
While I agree, they won't do anything. They are like rabbits in the headlights, scared to death of their investment plummeting in value and yet in the process achieving exactly that.

Peace really did drop us right in it.


So many fans fell for his "it's in the clubs best interests if i sell to Lai rather than investors" and then parroted it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 01, 2022, 12:07:55 PM
I am dreading the moment when I hear that we have sold our ground to the Chinese consortium and they will rent it back to us, just so we can raise enough cash for a few more Karlan Grants and Grady Dianganas.

It has happened to the bluenoses only last year so it is a possibility

It's the kind of thing I'm hoping that even our incumbents wouldn't be stupid enough to do. It's also the kind of stupid, short term thinking that's been typical of the roundabout crisis management we've become familiar with. 'Mr. Gourlay, could you get Acres on line one please?'.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 01, 2022, 12:24:38 PM
Every single appointment he seems to have got wrong.

That is some phenomenal strike rate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 01, 2022, 12:28:25 PM
Every single appointment he seems to have got wrong.

That is some phenomenal strike rate.


I've never encountered anyone so useless, him and his advisors.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 01, 2022, 12:37:14 PM
Needs to start lining up two candidates at a time and going for the one he doesn't prefer  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on March 01, 2022, 01:23:12 PM
Interesting to see how far Guochuan will go before cutting his losses.  He must be realising that the value of his investment has been going down steadily every since he's been at the helm.

His appointments of out of their time directors and managers for motives of "experience" betrays the fact that he does not understand football and the way  it has evolved since the days when the likes of Gourlay and Bruce were in any way effective.  My guess is that Gourlay has only been effective when the club has had a lot of money to spend.

He is a businessman;he understands the trend line.  However, even if he threw money at it, he wouldn't know how to spend it wisely as his appointments testify.

We're reaching the point where promotion will be mathematically impossible.  He might sell then, but it might be to someone who has designs on the club's non-playing assets. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 01, 2022, 01:32:55 PM
With the globe in it's current turmoil, it's unlikely that Lai will be going anywhere soon.
Geopolitics has shifted massively in the past few days, it's difficult to see where a buyer could come from.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dynamo10 on March 01, 2022, 02:28:18 PM
With the globe in it's current turmoil, it's unlikely that Lai will be going anywhere soon.
Geopolitics has shifted massively in the past few days, it's difficult to see where a buyer could come from.

He could quite easily find a buyer - he just chooses not to.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on March 01, 2022, 02:36:15 PM
He could quite easily find a buyer - he just chooses not to.

He wont find a buyer, well not at the price he wants.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: staticboy on March 02, 2022, 10:09:58 AM
If things haven't got better by the next home game (Huddersfield).
Would it be worth the fans standing outside the grounds and not go in for the first 10-15 mins of the match in protest, or if give them a chance for the first half and then all leave the ground before the second half starts.

Yes, it doesn't help the players not having the support but they are not making much difference when we are there anyway.

It might be a bit extreme but what else can the fans do?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on March 02, 2022, 12:32:14 PM
If things haven't got better by the next home game (Huddersfield).
Would it be worth the fans standing outside the grounds and not go in for the first 10-15 mins of the match in protest, or if give them a chance for the first half and then all leave the ground before the second half starts.

Yes, it doesn't help the players not having the support but they are not making much difference when we are there anyway.

It might be a bit extreme but what else can the fans do?

Why bother turning up at all??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on March 02, 2022, 12:32:19 PM
The refusal to appoint Wilder seems in the light of recent Boro form a huge mistake. But that is all we seem to make now ..mistakes. We are in free fall as a Club on and off the pitch and have been now for a couple of seasons. The problem is, have we hit rock bottom yet or is this going to get even worse.
 I have no confidence or hope left, I feel like Steve Bruce.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on March 02, 2022, 12:39:06 PM
He could quite easily find a buyer - he just chooses not to.

Would you sell you house at a minimum 50% loss for the sake of the tenants in situ? That's what fans are expecting of Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on March 02, 2022, 12:53:12 PM
Would you sell you house at a minimum 50% loss for the sake of the tenants in situ? That's what fans are expecting of Lai.

But the other side of that argument would be, sell now for 50% rather than wait for your investment to decrease even further. He is NEVER going to get anywhere near what he paid, so cut your losses and go.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 02, 2022, 12:56:55 PM
Would you sell you house at a minimum 50% loss for the sake of the tenants in situ? That's what fans are expecting of Lai.

Think your last sentence is significant.

Before last week, there were perhaps 3 groups who would have sufficient funds to both buy & develop WBAFC.
They were american financiers, oil rich arabs, or russian ogliarchs, in the last week the global geopolitical landscape has changed so much, that we can probably discount all three.

EFL clubs will be bought, but not for anything like £150 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on March 02, 2022, 12:58:23 PM
If things haven't got better by the next home game (Huddersfield).
Would it be worth the fans standing outside the grounds and not go in for the first 10-15 mins of the match in protest, or if give them a chance for the first half and then all leave the ground before the second half starts.

Yes, it doesn't help the players not having the support but they are not making much difference when we are there anyway.

It might be a bit extreme but what else can the fans do?

the problem with that is that some fans travel a long way to attend matches, as Maresca says why bother to turn up at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on March 02, 2022, 12:59:29 PM
But the other side of that argument would be, sell now for 50% rather than wait for your investment to decrease even further. He is NEVER going to get anywhere near what he paid, so cut your losses and go.

Lai basically just bought a house he didn't do a survey on which floods every year so he can either sell it and take a hit or remain there and watch it get worse each year. He doesn't even want to live in the house so why bother suffering?

Another point coming down the track is the way the global geopolitical situation is going, he may be best selling asap to avoid even worse problems down the line if there's a protracted problem with the global financial system.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dynamo10 on March 02, 2022, 01:01:57 PM
Would you sell you house at a minimum 50% loss for the sake of the tenants in situ? That's what fans are expecting of Lai.

No, but the very least I would be doing is making sure that the tenants were not inept like he is. We both know he's proven incapable of taking this club in the right direction so are the fans really that bad in expecting that he cuts his losses and leaves?

At this rate he'd be asking for a miracle to get near a minimum 50% loss.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on March 02, 2022, 01:02:59 PM
Lai basically just bought a house he didn't do a survey on which floods every year so he can either sell it and take a hit or remain there and watch it get worse each year. He doesn't even want to live in the house so why bother suffering?

Another point coming down the track is the way the global geopolitical situation is going, he may be best selling asap to avoid even worse problems down the line if there's a protracted problem with the global financial system.

or President Xi, thinks Ukranian stuff that looks like its working, lets have a pop at Taiwan!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 02, 2022, 01:43:17 PM
Lai bought business he knows little about that’s the problem and to get his hands around this he either has to throw money at it to get club back to prem where he has a hope of breaking even or he surrounds himself with bright people who have a knowledge of business. Lackeys won’t cut it as the Revolving door has proven since he’s arrived, director of football urgently required.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on March 02, 2022, 10:11:39 PM
Would you sell you house at a minimum 50% loss for the sake of the tenants in situ? That's what fans are expecting of Lai.
We have 2 more parachute payments to try to utilise to get back up.
After that he will be lucky to recoup 25% of what he payed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sammyg on March 02, 2022, 10:37:10 PM
We have 2 more parachute payments to try to utilise to get back up.
After that he will be lucky to recoup 25% of what he payed.

We only have one year left. Because we came up then straight back down you only get 2 years of parachute payments.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on March 03, 2022, 07:39:42 AM
We're doomed Captain Mainwaring, doomed I say.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 03, 2022, 09:36:50 AM
We only have one year left. Because we came up then straight back down you only get 2 years of parachute payments.

Those two years of parachute payments were budgeted to a three year spend. That was before VI and his backroom team joined, were paid whatever was negotiated for them to leave and whatever was agreed with Steve Bruce and his team to come aboard.

I really, really 'hope' someone at the club's got a clue as to where we are at budget wise currently, because from the outside looking in we're all over the place both behind the scenes and on the pitch. It's like someone's thrown a jigsaw puzzle into the air in the expectation it will miraculously reassemble itself before it hits the floor.

What a complete and utter XXXXXXX shambles this is shaping up to be and at this moment in time I can only see things getting worse. Something really has to fall our way soon. If not it won't be long before we're looking at what should have happened to the Vile were it not for a questionable ref in one game and a penalty shoot out in another.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on April 01, 2022, 06:09:17 AM
Kieran Maguire, the widely sigthed football finance blogger and author of Price of Football has flagged up that our accounts were due to be published yesterday but we have now submitted a document to push this back until the end of June. Reading between the lines, he is basically saying this is usually a bad sign and is a hint the club are holding off from publishing for as long as they can.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 01, 2022, 08:38:35 AM
Kieran Maguire, the widely sigthed football finance blogger and author of Price of Football has flagged up that our accounts were due to be published yesterday but we have now submitted a document to push this back until the end of June. Reading between the lines, he is basically saying this is usually a bad sign and is a hint the club are holding off from publishing for as long as they can.

Accounts were published on April 15th last year.

They've changed the end of the accounting period from 31 July to 30 June.

Companies have 9 months to submit accounts to companies house, so, in effect, by changing the date to 30 June, they should have been submitted by 31 March.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Floydy on April 01, 2022, 08:46:55 AM
Its pretty standard at the moment to apply for a 3 month extension to filling accounts due to Covid disruption - virtually all of these extension requests are being granted by Companies House.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 03, 2022, 04:48:15 PM
A wimp with money and nothing else.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on April 04, 2022, 01:21:38 AM
Would have thought he could have gotten lucky on one appointment, but but it appears his incompetence is going to. Be legendary.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on April 04, 2022, 08:31:59 AM
Its pretty standard at the moment to apply for a 3 month extension to filling accounts due to Covid disruption - virtually all of these extension requests are being granted by Companies House.

Unless you make a profit then you get them out as soon as possible as a few clubs have done..

I await with baited to breath to see the damage of last season. As if the football wasn’t bad enough..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ttree30 on April 04, 2022, 08:47:15 AM
I’m not sure what the exit strategy is from the owner now. We are a long way short of returning to the Premier League. And even if that happened, what resources would there be to stay there?

So who would buy and give him his money back (if that’s what he’s hoping for)?

I just can’t quite see where this ends.

He’s not going to get his money back. We don’t seem likely to be a Premier League club again for the foreseeable future. The value of the club is declining. What’s the way out?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 04, 2022, 08:57:40 AM
I’m not sure what the exit strategy is from the owner now. We are a long way short of returning to the Premier League. And even if that happened, what resources would there be to stay there?

So who would buy and give him his money back (if that’s what he’s hoping for)?

I just can’t quite see where this ends.

He’s not going to get his money back. We don’t seem likely to be a Premier League club again for the foreseeable future. The value of the club is declining. What’s the way out?

What amuses me is that there are several consortiums fighting over Chelski, each willing to put up £2b to buy them. Now whilst I realise that they are a global brand they could acquire WBA for less than one tenth of that figure and have a massive transfer pot for investment [subject to FFP]. in 5 or 10 years time they may be in a position to sell and make a very handsome profit, having put WBA in the global market.

However, we seem to be stuck with this landscape gardener and his halfwit circus for the forseeable........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 04, 2022, 09:26:30 AM
Chelsea are European Champions, World Champions and have a decent Squad and a Brilliant Manager who prospective Buyers would trust enough to give him lots of money as he can but quality players that fit with how Tuchel wants to play. Or they will bring someone in if they don't agree. Also Chelsea is in London a brighter prospect to invest in than next to the M5 in West Bromwich, We don't have any sort of recent pedigree, or a decent team and we have Steve Bruce someone who probably wouldn't trust to bring in new players if you knew anything about football. Also we have to potentially buy lots of players, sack/pay Bruce off, sort out the board, youth academy, and possibly redevelope the infrastructure meaning the more money the new owners put in the more the club may enter debt or you won't get it back or when the new guy in charge and his team get promoted to the Prem you may not able to back him or could face FFP. Chelsea also have several billionaire fans who would take them over in a heartbeat. We don't have many who could afford what Lai wants. Back to Lai he was given a decent Clun in prospective, all he had to do was keep everything Peace had in place and not change dramatically. Even keep Pulis the man would have had us out of the rut. But no and here we are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on April 04, 2022, 09:33:02 AM
I’m not sure what the exit strategy is from the owner now. We are a long way short of returning to the Premier League. And even if that happened, what resources would there be to stay there?

So who would buy and give him his money back (if that’s what he’s hoping for)?

I just can’t quite see where this ends.

He’s not going to get his money back. We don’t seem likely to be a Premier League club again for the foreseeable future. The value of the club is declining. What’s the way out?

He missed the boat to exit on bad terms whilst we were in the premier league, he and his backers now have to become the next Venkys (watching their promising club fester in League One/ Championship for the long term) or exit on horrendous terms to escape the inevitable anger that fans (in my view) will eventually pour onto the board. I'm a bit angry now but mostly sad at what's happened to us. It's like the heart has been ripped out of the club over the past few years and like the current home strip, I'm struggling to recognise the club from what attracted me to it for 40 years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 04, 2022, 10:04:23 AM
Chelsea are European Champions, World Champions and have a decent Squad and a Brilliant Manager who prospective Buyers would trust enough to give him lots of money as he can but quality players that fit with how Tuchel wants to play. Or they will bring someone in if they don't agree. Also Chelsea is in London a brighter prospect to invest in than next to the M5 in West Bromwich, We don't have any sort of recent pedigree, or a decent team and we have Steve Bruce someone who probably wouldn't trust to bring in new players if you knew anything about football. Also we have to potentially buy lots of players, sack/pay Bruce off, sort out the board, youth academy, and possibly redevelope the infrastructure meaning the more money the new owners put in the more the club may enter debt or you won't get it back or when the new guy in charge and his team get promoted to the Prem you may not able to back him or could face FFP. Chelsea also have several billionaire fans who would take them over in a heartbeat. We don't have many who could afford what Lai wants. Back to Lai he was given a decent Clun in prospective, all he had to do was keep everything Peace had in place and not change dramatically. Even keep Pulis the man would have had us out of the rut. But no and here we are.

I get all that BB, but they were not all that a few years ago, they were just another club. Newcastle will be up there soon
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on April 04, 2022, 10:42:13 AM
Lai assumed control in sept 2016, so 66 months ago, in that time the clubs value has declined by about £120-150M

lets pitch in the middle of that at £132m or £2m a month,

At this rate we have about 6 months left with ANY value, (ie september!!!)  now I know these things are not simple straight line forecasts BUT it does put into sharp focus just how badly this man has run the club. There will be a bloke in jersey thinking, "could I do it again???"

i would welcome him(baldy) back with Meggo in tow at this point. I know there is a not-insignificant amount of animosity towards the bald one but things are SO bad anything has to be better than what is coming next.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 04, 2022, 10:45:32 AM
I tend to agree with you, Skyclad. We're not a sexy football concept for an investor but then Newcastle are not so different.

We just need someone with vision.

Maybe Lai could could table a deal Dragon's Den style where he gets half of the money now with the full amount if the next owner can turn the club's fortunes around in 18 months time.....!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on April 04, 2022, 11:53:23 AM
Don't forget JP only sold to someone that can take the club to the next level. We all assumed in the Premier League and not League 1
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on April 04, 2022, 01:59:15 PM
We can forget the Premier League now unless we get rid of this awful owner and somehow attract a generous multi-billionaire. If we do not we will be in the championship doldrums for many seasons or even worse.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ttree30 on April 04, 2022, 04:42:34 PM
We can forget the Premier League now unless we get rid of this awful owner and somehow attract a generous multi-billionaire. If we do not we will be in the championship doldrums for many seasons or even worse.

That’s the thing. I can’t see how he gets out.

Things were dire under the likes of Sid Lucas, John Silk, Trevor Summers and Tony Hale - but at least they were local guys who actually loved the club.

And there was always a chance that they’d go - they were Chairmen, not owners. And they did.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 04, 2022, 05:09:08 PM
Lai is faced with losing a lot of money or the best part of all of it.

I know what i would do but i'm not Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on April 04, 2022, 05:22:22 PM
The best we can hope for is he cuts and runs this summer and we finally get a decent owner.

I doubt we’re with £50-75m presently.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on April 04, 2022, 07:39:19 PM
Take the m away and you are about right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 04, 2022, 08:15:46 PM
It's interesting that we can't speculate on new managers on here but no problem about owners.

PLEASE don't change that policy though mods, it's out only source of hope. However faint.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on April 04, 2022, 08:23:07 PM
I fear we are stuck with Lai for quite some time. And during this time it's only going to get worse. As each year goes by we will shop for cheaper and cheaper players. If SB leaves then the next appointment will define our next 10 years
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 06, 2022, 02:31:00 PM
Our downfall (plummet) started when he took "control" for want of a better word.
We were the only West midlands club in the Premiership and still he was not forceful in investing in the future of the club.
We have changed the Hurdy Gurdy man in charge of the players on the pitch, but no matter who cranks the handle, the Hurdy Gurdy continues to churn out the same tune.
Eventually the old box will collapse, and might as well be thrown on the scrap heap, meaning a massive financial loss for the owner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on April 06, 2022, 03:13:16 PM
Perhaps this is not that big of a loss to him personally? maybe he has bigger fish to fry in China? there must be some reason a club is purchased for 180million and the owner doesn't seem interested.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 06, 2022, 05:15:18 PM
Perhaps this is not that big of a loss to him personally? maybe he has bigger fish to fry in China? there must be some reason a club is purchased for 180million and the owner doesn't seem interested.

I think it would be a seismic loss to him [or whoever he represents] to be fair. When 'honest Jez' sold him the club I imagine he was told what a cash cow it was and how the money would just roll in without any further investment. Alternatively, it may be that he was/is interested, but as sods law would dictate, just when he paid over all his savings to a Jersey bank account the Chinese Government put a total block on money leaving the country for football purposes.

I think he is interested [mainly in getting his money back] which is why we had the 'night of the long knives' a few months ago. Lai is now in full control and his faithful sidekick Ron is now the CEO. Anyone noticed any difference?

Me neither.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 18, 2022, 09:05:26 PM
IF? !!!  He is an honourable man, he will fall on his sword.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on April 18, 2022, 09:19:14 PM
He'll be sacking Bruce , can see it coming .
Gourlay too if he doesn't like it .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 18, 2022, 09:39:45 PM
Who is this person called Lai? Just a donkey who has been led by a nose clip
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on April 18, 2022, 09:42:59 PM
I'm sorry but I am done with this club until Lai has gone. Been a complete and utter cluster **** since his arrival.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tlms-p23 on April 18, 2022, 09:47:40 PM
Dunno who he is. Dunno what he wants. Dunno why he wants anything to do with a football club.

If he thinks he’s getting his money back, he’s as deluded as he is incompetent at running a football club.

He bought a club that had built itself step by step over 15 years through Megson, Peace, Ashworth.

He appointed the likes of Dowling and let the goon destroy an academy that was finally starting to bear fruit as it has been stripped of its talent and coaches, as the control and togetherness of the club began to unravel at an alarming rate. It’s a mess.

Lai should be the subject of public, personal dissent and shaming in an attempt to remove him.. We all know how important saving face is in Chinese culture. Shame and embarrass the the bloke with loud, vocal and angry dissent and we’ll smoke this louse out in 18 months.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 18, 2022, 09:48:43 PM
Dunno who he is. Dunno what he wants. Dunno why he wants anything to do with a football club.

If he thinks he’s getting his money back, he’s as deluded as he is incompetent at running a football club.

He bought a club that had built itself step by step over 15 years through Megson, Peace, Ashworth.

He appointed the likes of Dowling and let the goon destroy an academy that was finally starting to bear fruit as it has been stripped of its talent and coaches.

Lai should be the subject of public, personal dissent and shaming in an attempt to remove him.. We all know how important saving face is in Chinese culture. Shame and embarrass the the bloke with loud, vocal and angry dissent and we’ll smoke this louse out in 18 months.


Albion fans won't do that sadly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on April 18, 2022, 09:49:21 PM
I'm amazed at the fans apathy to Lai, he's ruined this club and hasn't faced any backlash.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 18, 2022, 09:51:04 PM
I'm amazed at the fans apathy to Lai, he's ruined this club and hasn't faced any backlash.

Albion fans are generally very passive in my experience.

When a small band started voicing their disapproval of Lai not so far back many other supporters disagreed with it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on April 18, 2022, 09:59:32 PM
His ownership is the source of our demise . Managers and players are the symptom
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 18, 2022, 10:00:26 PM
His ownership is the source of our demise . Managers and players are the symptom


I agree. Until he is gone we are done for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ttree30 on April 18, 2022, 10:04:15 PM
His ownership is the source of our demise . Managers and players are the symptom

Yes 💯 agree.

Terrible decisions. Incompetent leadership. A club falling out of the sky without a parachute in sight (we’ve torn a hole in the one we had  from the Premier League).

We have just been humiliated by the “might” of Nottingham Forest. And I fear that may not be anywhere near the low point.

This tragedy has a long way to run.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alwaysbilly on April 18, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Yes 💯 agree.

Terrible decisions. Incompetent leadership. A club falling out of the sky without a parachute in sight (we’ve torn a hole in the one we had  from the Premier League).

We have just been humiliated by the “might” of Nottingham Forest. And I fear that may not be anywhere near the low point.

This tragedy has a long way to run.
I agree this is just the start, it won’t get any better until lai is gone and it will take league 1 wilderness for him to realise he needs to get rid and take a massive loss.
I’ve said it so many times - Bartley furlong are a joke and summarise everything that is wrong with that squad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 18, 2022, 10:11:58 PM
Just incompetent. No more to be said or explained.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tlms-p23 on April 18, 2022, 10:14:13 PM
Albion fans have to play a dirty, ugly game if we want him gone. He’s not going to walk away from a £200m investment 5 years ago lightly.

It needs to be banners, chants, walkouts, boycotts and a bit of devilment. Not pretty but absolutely necessary.

We’re sleepwalking into an awful mess. The way out of this situation is through consistent, shrewd, intelligent decision making at every level. Please, point me in the direction of any of that in the last 5 years.

Lai out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on April 18, 2022, 10:26:07 PM
Albion fans have to play a dirty, ugly game if we want him gone. He’s not going to walk away from a £200m investment 5 years ago lightly.

It needs to be banners, chants, walkouts, boycotts and a bit of devilment. Not pretty but absolutely necessary.


We’re sleepwalking into an awful mess. The way out of this situation is through consistent, shrewd, intelligent decision making at every level. Please, point me in the direction of any of that in the last 5 years.

Lai out.
Blackburn couldn't shift the Venkys and that was a £23 million purchase, no chance will you shift an investment 10 times that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on April 18, 2022, 10:33:19 PM
Blackburn couldn't shift the Venkys and that was a £23 million purchase, no chance will you shift an investment 10 times that.
we should try though surely?
We are a reasonable bunch. A bit too reasonable most of the time for my liking.
Something needs doing to highlight the anger rather than apathy
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 18, 2022, 11:30:29 PM
If you can stand it...we should bot attend another game until he is gone. Poisonous and patronising. Free pint to all supporters, my a3$e.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 19, 2022, 07:53:58 AM
Blackburn couldn't shift the Venkys and that was a £23 million purchase, no chance will you shift an investment 10 times that.

The Chinese generally do not like to lose face. It is not in their way of thinking and lifestyle.
Perhaps if it keeps happening with banners and other, he will want to get away asap.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on April 19, 2022, 08:46:21 AM
The end of season theme should be white flags. Then all fans walk out so the ground is empty. It's the only way to get his attention.  Sooner he sells up the better. We have had a steady decline since JP left. I can honestly see us going down to League One before we ever see the Premier League again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 19, 2022, 08:51:27 AM
Think we have to accept that he's not going anywhere, but he needs to get better people around him.

Lai has to question Ron Goulay's judgement from the Steve  Bruce appointment, & in my opinion. both should be moved on.

Personally, I would welcome Mark Jenkins back with open arms.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on April 19, 2022, 08:56:30 AM

The Chinese generally do not like to lose face. It is not in their way of thinking and lifestyle.
Perhaps if it keeps happening with banners and other, he will want to get away asap.

Exactly, he we protest in a derogatory, insulting way he will just hang on willing to let the club slide into the gutter.  He won't want to lose face by giving in to insults.  It all depends on the financial calculations of him and his board  thousands of miles away from any demos..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on April 19, 2022, 09:08:07 AM
Every big call that he has made at this football club has been the wrong one.

That is an incredible strike rate.

His businesses must be an absolute ****show.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 19, 2022, 09:11:04 AM
Think we have to accept that he's not going anywhere, but he needs to get better people around him.

Lai has to question Ron Goulay's judgement from the Steve  Bruce appointment, & in my opinion. both should be moved on.

Personally, I would welcome Mark Jenkins back with open arms.

Me too, but even he could see where we we were/are going
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 19, 2022, 09:29:52 AM
Mark Jenkins face and posture when we won promotion stood out to me at the time. He knew.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on April 19, 2022, 09:36:36 AM
Every big call that he has made at this football club has been the wrong one.

That is an incredible strike rate.

His businesses must be an absolute ****show.

Is his business 'global' or part of the state run Chinese market? This may explain why he seems to be the worst businessman the World of football has seen.

Everything about Lai's ownership is an absolute shower and I think it's time the fans were very vocal about it.

We've focused on managers, players (rightfully) but the real source of our problems are the awful ownership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tlms-p23 on April 19, 2022, 10:03:16 AM
Is his business 'global' or part of the state run Chinese market? This may explain why he seems to be the worst businessman the World of football has seen.

Everything about Lai's ownership is an absolute shower and I think it's time the fans were very vocal about it.

We've focused on managers, players (rightfully) but the real source of our problems are the awful ownership.

Couldn't agree more on being vocal. It's time. It's remarkable how little he has been on the receiving end of. If there were fans in the stands in Nov 20-Feb 21, I think he'd have been copping for it.

The likes of Pulis, Pardew, Dowling, Allardyce, Ken, Livermore, Ismael, Bruce, Mowatt, Robinson - whoever the target has been up until now - have been (with one or two exceptions) brought into the club based on their availability.

The clubs transfer policy reflects this - available on the cheap is the principal criteria. Furlong, Townsend, Mowatt, Reach, etc.

If you employ goons who can't do their jobs adequately, things decline. And the fault rests with their employer. Lai.

You can point to so many areas of the club. The academy? I'm absolutely gutted about it. Pereira? Zohore? Swathes of empty seats at home?

He needs to know that he is responsible for this malaise. I don't know that he does think that. Sacked Pulis, Pardew, Moore, Bilic, Ismael and Bruce (soon, no doubt). Dowling and Ken got the shove. And Gourlay will go at some point. I'd imagine he thinks it's their fault.

In part, he's right. But if he believes the ultimate responsibility lies with anyone but himself then he's wrong he needs a loud, public, RUDE awakening.

The longer fans are apathetic, the more he gets away with it, the deeper we decline. Do we need to wait to get beat at home to Forest Green Rovers or Morecambe in League One to generate enough anger to hold him to account?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 19, 2022, 10:17:10 AM
I think you have a point about the pandemic, tlms-p23. It's given Lai a stay of execution.

Time we made ourselves very much more vocal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on April 19, 2022, 10:33:43 AM
I still don't think Lai has done a lot wrong.  Decisions haven't worked out, but even with hindsight I look at most decisions he has made and can see why they were made at the time.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on April 19, 2022, 10:35:20 AM
I still don't think Lai has done a lot wrong.  Decisions haven't worked out, but even with hindsight I look at most decisions he has made and can see why they were made at the time.

One or two decisions 'don't work out' - a host, a trend of bad decisions leads you back to the person making the decisions (or being absent in Lai's case). Lai needs to go asap
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on April 19, 2022, 11:13:54 AM
I still don't think Lai has done a lot wrong.  Decisions haven't worked out, but even with hindsight I look at most decisions he has made and can see why they were made at the time.

- The spending of all our financial reserves
- The timing of the decision to sack Pulis
- The appointment of Giuliano Terraneo
- The sacking of Terraneo
- The appointment of Alan Pardew
- The sacking of Alan Pardew
- The sacking of Darren Moore
- The appointment of Luke Dowling
- The appointment of James Shan
- The appointment of Slaven Bilic
- The sacking of Slaven Bilic
- The appointment of Sam Allardyce
- Not continuing with Sam Allardyce
- The sacking of Luke Dowling
- The appointment of Ken
- The sacking of Ken
- The appointment of Ismael
- The sacking of Ismael
- The appointment of Ron Gourlay
- The appointment of Steven Bruce


Those are the biggest calls in his tenure so far.

How many of those has he got right? The sacking of Dowling/Terraneo/Ken? Its an appalling strike rate.

Bad decision after bad decision with a sacking to follow them up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 19, 2022, 11:22:10 AM
Majority of his decisions have been wrong from keeping Ebenezer on as consultant who advised him on bringing in that useless director of football who’s name eludes me think he was a keeper who went on an Ill advised spending spree.  Not sacking Pulis when it wasn’t working  To appointing Pardew and then not getting rid quickly enough to give big Dave a chance of keeping us up. Buying player’s who were clearly not good enough and then giving them long contracts I could go on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on April 19, 2022, 11:37:45 AM
We all want Lai out by the look of it. : >:( Now just look at Newcastle fans with their battle to remove Mick Ashley how long did they have to wait?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on April 19, 2022, 11:44:50 AM
If we do not start action now whilst we are still in the Championship then we will end up asking the same questions when we are mid-table in League 1. And asking them again when we go into administration in 5 years time. That is the future we face.
Bad men succeed when good men do nothing. If we sit on our hands now we are screwed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on April 19, 2022, 12:24:01 PM
If we do not start action now whilst we are still in the Championship then we will end up asking the same questions when we are mid-table in League 1. And asking them again when we go into administration in 5 years time. That is the future we face.
Bad men succeed when good men do nothing. If we sit on our hands now we are screwed.

This. No matter what Lai is going to take a huge loss, over 150m loss. Even if we got promoted nobody would offer more than 75m for us, there are zero playing assets.

Someone should be seriously explaining to him that this is only going to get a lot worse and now just might be the time to cut your huge losses and run. Otherwise he’s going to get pelters and why would he want that? Admit you got utterly done over by Pearce and move on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 19, 2022, 12:27:28 PM
This. No matter what Lai is going to take a huge loss, over 150m loss. Even if we got promoted nobody would offer more than 75m for us, there are zero playing assets.

Someone should be seriously explaining to him that this is only going to get a lot worse and now just might be the time to cut your huge losses and run. Otherwise he’s going to get pelters and why would he want that? Admit you got utterly done over by Pearce and move on.

This is how I feel about it too. He needs to cut his losses and get out for his, but mainly the club's, sake.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on April 19, 2022, 12:47:52 PM
This is how I feel about it too. He needs to cut his losses and get out for his, but mainly the club's, sake.

Exactly, I think the fans have been remarkably kind so far. They won’t be next year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on April 19, 2022, 12:49:05 PM

I don't think that being rude or insulting is going to do any good.  If we had a demo, he's miles away and a billionaire; we would look like irritating flies to him.  what would be effective would be for the supporters to get an audience with him over zoom and explain what's going wrong. 

He's made what he thinks are the correct decisions by conservative, safe appointments of those with experience.  the problem is that the experience is either out of date (cf Bruce), exhausted (cf Allardyce) or not related to the size and finances of our club (cf Gourlay).

The chap has very little knowledge of English football; the problem is that he's relied on a very small coterie of advisors.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 19, 2022, 12:49:28 PM
I want Lai our not just because of on the Pitch and The Board, but the people who have nothing to do with it ie the Club Shop Workers, Secretaries so on. Gourlay told the local media that he wants to sort out Ticketing, Club Shop, PA and other issues. Lai obviously should be getting an insight into those issues and spending money sorting them out. As this appears to have not been done, will all those innocent people lose there Jobs in these times of hardship. Will Donna the reception lose her job because Lai has caused this Club to get relegated to League One and enter tough financial problems because he constantly employs clowns who employ other clowns costing us Millions. I do fear with Lai this is the way we are heading that innocent people who have nothing to do with how bad we are will get fired because of he and his board's incompetence. Times for us are probably going to get bleaker.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 19, 2022, 01:37:12 PM
I don't think that being rude or insulting is going to do any good.  If we had a demo, he's miles away and a billionaire; we would look like irritating flies to him.  what would be effective would be for the supporters to get an audience with him over zoom and explain what's going wrong. 

He's made what he thinks are the correct decisions by conservative, safe appointments of those with experience.  the problem is that the experience is either out of date (cf Bruce), exhausted (cf Allardyce) or not related to the size and finances of our club (cf Gourlay).

The chap has very little knowledge of English football; the problem is that he's relied on a very small coterie of advisors.

I don't think he is, certainly not in dollars or pounds sterling, do agree with the rest of the assesment though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 19, 2022, 01:47:44 PM
I don't think that being rude or insulting is going to do any good.  If we had a demo, he's miles away and a billionaire; we would look like irritating flies to him.  what would be effective would be for the supporters to get an audience with him over zoom and explain what's going wrong. 

He's made what he thinks are the correct decisions by conservative, safe appointments of those with experience.  the problem is that the experience is either out of date (cf Bruce), exhausted (cf Allardyce) or not related to the size and finances of our club (cf Gourlay).

The chap has very little knowledge of English football; the problem is that he's relied on a very small coterie of advisors.

He would learn a lot more by joining this forum, and it’s free!

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on April 19, 2022, 01:50:01 PM
I don't think that being rude or insulting is going to do any good.  If we had a demo, he's miles away and a billionaire; we would look like irritating flies to him.  what would be effective would be for the supporters to get an audience with him over zoom and explain what's going wrong. 

He's made what he thinks are the correct decisions by conservative, safe appointments of those with experience.  the problem is that the experience is either out of date (cf Bruce), exhausted (cf Allardyce) or not related to the size and finances of our club (cf Gourlay).

The chap has very little knowledge of English football; the problem is that he's relied on a very small coterie of advisors.

I disagree, if the fans were more vocal against him, he'd get the message, eventually. I'd say he's seen the empty seats this season. If this hasn't scared him into what lies ahead it should..........we're imploding day by day under his ownership
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on April 19, 2022, 03:07:32 PM
The owner wants to sell - there are just no buyers for him to recoup his money.

No matter how much noise we make he's not going to go until someone gives him some dollar for it.

If you want to hurt Lai - don't bother going.

Otherwise, paying your money and then making a song and dance about it is futile
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 19, 2022, 06:55:45 PM
What about dad dancing? There should always be a place for dad dancing. Singing? Not so much in my case. I couldn't carry a tune in a backpack.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on April 19, 2022, 08:26:08 PM
The owner wants to sell - there are just no buyers for him to recoup his money.

No matter how much noise we make he's not going to go until someone gives him some dollar for it.

If you want to hurt Lai - don't bother going.

Otherwise, paying your money and then making a song and dance about it is futile

Liam according to  Ron Gourlay the club is not for sale.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 20, 2022, 08:54:24 AM
It's for sale if an acceptable bid comes in. It won't though so we're in let's pretend we have a plan until we stumble across a working formula mode.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on April 20, 2022, 09:14:09 AM
Liam according to  Ron Gourlay the club is not for sale.

It means they are not actively seeking buyers (presumably because they know no one will offer anywhere near what Lai would accept).

You offer Lai £200 million and you'll soon see if the clubs for sale.  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 20, 2022, 09:54:15 AM
Pretty sure that Lai will sit up and take notice of any bids north of £150m, but that is never going to happen. Will be lucky to get £100m. One thing in our favour is that we are not in any great debt
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 20, 2022, 09:58:22 AM
Pretty sure that Lai will sit up and take notice of any bids north of £150m, but that is never going to happen. Will be lucky to get £100m. One thing in our favour is that we are not in any great debt

We do however have a lot of financial commitments moving forward against a diminishing level of income. Damn that thing called relegation. I wonder whether Lai and co even knew it was a thing when they took over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 20, 2022, 10:01:13 AM
We do however have a lot of financial commitments moving forward against a diminishing level of income. Damn that thing called relegation. I wonder whether Lai and co even knew it was a thing when they took over.

Very true, we will be worth half that figure very soon  :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bosh on April 20, 2022, 11:11:10 AM
Everything is for sale - all depends on price offered.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 20, 2022, 04:26:02 PM
Very true, we will be worth half that figure very soon  :(


I think we are worth less than 100m as it stands.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 20, 2022, 05:15:31 PM
It is virtually impossible to value a football club because none of the valuations make any sense in any "normal" financial terms.

 For instance it looks like it will cost Chris Kirchner something like the £30m to buy Derby off the administrators.  This may be only enough to settle something like 10% of their none football debt (say hello to a 15 point deduction) This does not get him the stadium which is still owned by Mel Morris.

It is utterly worthless no physical assets to speak off virtually no players under contract. How do you make money? Get it promoted from league one to the Championship where most clubs lose money and hope someone like Morris (who lost north of £200m on Derby) buys it for £60m.

So Albion worth £100m (roughly half of what Lai paid for us)? To be absolutely honest it can't be worth more than £50m or £60m. Even that makes no rational sense but possibly opens up the route to a profit if it can be sold on as a Premier League club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on April 20, 2022, 05:32:58 PM
I'd be surprised if we were valued north of £50m at the moment. We have zero assets currently. Failure to get the next 12 months spot on decision wise, and Lai will be lucky to recoup £25m. Think next season is his final chance to get us promoted, although I'm not confident bearing in mind those that will be coming down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on April 20, 2022, 06:06:03 PM
Pretty sure that Lai will sit up and take notice of any bids north of £150m, but that is never going to happen. Will be lucky to get £100m. One thing in our favour is that we are not in any great debt

He's got more chance getting a lap dance from Stacey North than any bids around those figures you mentioned.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: South West Steve on April 20, 2022, 06:41:05 PM
The only good thing about today was my "pleasure" in filling in the Survey I received from The Albion about the Owners, Club values and where I feel the Club is now. I'd like to say it was fun but boy did it enable me to fill in my thoughts (and I'm sure therefore condemn my completed form to the B71 waste bin!) some of the multiple choice questions were telling around where do I feel the club is at.

Made me feel better if only it wasn't so sad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 21, 2022, 12:41:41 PM
The only good thing about today was my "pleasure" in filling in the Survey I received from The Albion about the Owners, Club values and where I feel the Club is now. I'd like to say it was fun but boy did it enable me to fill in my thoughts (and I'm sure therefore condemn my completed form to the B71 waste bin!) some of the multiple choice questions were telling around where do I feel the club is at.

Made me feel better if only it wasn't so sad.

Just filled it out myself .I hated putting what I did but I had to be honest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on April 21, 2022, 12:45:58 PM
I haven't received this survey. Would like to complete it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 21, 2022, 12:54:28 PM
I haven't received this survey. Would like to complete it

Mine was sent to the email address registered to my account with the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 21, 2022, 01:26:51 PM
I haven't received this survey. Would like to complete it

Just completed mine.

Check your junk folder  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on April 21, 2022, 03:30:08 PM
I haven't got a "continually junk bordering upon toxic" folder
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on April 21, 2022, 03:33:43 PM
I completed a questionnaire and was quite scathing about the ownership simply because it's how I feel. Lai and his appointments are ruining this club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 21, 2022, 06:17:21 PM
Breaking news Sheffield United subject £115m bid which is now referred to the EFL. I think this is the absolute maximum a Championship club can go for. Obviously every club is different but there is one very significant difference that Sheffield's owner is probably selling at a profit ours is not.

I still can't see why anybody would pay this much for any Championship club but there it is another rich fool suckered into the 2nd hand glamour of football*


(*Not really that much glamour on offer on a wet Tuesday night at your typical Championship game but ...)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 22, 2022, 11:21:43 AM
I completed a questionnaire and was quite scathing about the ownership simply because it's how I feel. Lai and his appointments are ruining this club.

I'd love the job of reading through those questionnaire responses. I can imagine some of the answers would make for epic entertainment  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 23, 2022, 11:08:58 AM
Burnley FC seems to be in big trouble following relegation.  The £65M that the new US owners put in has come with strings attached; they have the right to recover (by any means?) the loan back by earlier repayments in the event of relegation.  Owners making large loans can produce a perilous situation for any club. 
I think it shows that however bad we think our owners are  - there could be worse.  I wouldn't want Guochuan and Co injecting more money into our club by way of a loan.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 23, 2022, 11:33:03 AM
Burnley contract says they can repay interest only.on the 65m loan until 2025 at which point capital must start to be repaid.

In the event of relegation however the capital must start to be repaid by a significant amount each season they remain outside the PL.

No actual figures are given but would imagine they are going to need to pay 20m back this season at least or 1 Nick Pope sale etc

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on May 23, 2022, 12:27:28 PM
Burnley contract says they can repay interest only.on the 65m loan until 2025 at which point capital must start to be repaid.

In the event of relegation however the capital must start to be repaid by a significant amount each season they remain outside the PL.

No actual figures are given but would imagine they are going to need to pay 20m back this season at least or 1 Nick Pope sale etc

The could just refinance away from that deal and onto another interest only deal or at least part amortisation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 23, 2022, 12:33:14 PM
The could just refinance away from that deal and onto another interest only deal or at least part amortisation.

I only saw a part of it on Twitter. Think it was on Lepkowskis somewhere. Maybe now they are relegated there is some clause forbidding it. I don't know though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 23, 2022, 02:09:14 PM
The could just refinance away from that deal and onto another interest only deal or at least part amortisation.

I guess they could but they would probably have to put up something as collateral.  I don't know how attractive an EFL outfit is to financiers these days - that would maybe determine the interest rate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: colinmax on May 23, 2022, 04:54:58 PM
 I wouldn't necessarily criticise the owner over money provided we paid about 15M for Burke and 30M plus for Grant and Diagana.
What worries me about the sale of Rondon and Pereira under seemingly strange circumstances and the fact he employs people who take the easy option of renewing contracts of current players rather than studying the market for hopefully quick young players who are likely to provide the skills needed to have a good team.
The top  teams such as Man City and Liverpool can virtually sign who they want and as we we are one of the bigger clubs we should have the pick of players at a level capable of playing at championship and hopefully premiership level.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ronnie Allen on May 23, 2022, 05:42:07 PM
Burnley contract says they can repay interest only.on the 65m loan until 2025 at which point capital must start to be repaid.

In the event of relegation however the capital must start to be repaid by a significant amount each season they remain outside the PL.

No actual figures are given but would imagine they are going to need to pay 20m back this season at least or 1 Nick Pope sale etc

Or to put it even more starkly, imagine being relegated and having to still pay for that £65m striker you splashed out on just before relegation! Except in this case you can’t sell the player on - you’re stuck with the debt. And there never was a player.

A big wedge of Burnley’s parachute money is going to go on repaying this debt, meaning their ability to be competitive enough to bounce straight back will be compromised. If the creditors enforce this repayment too robustly, I fear for Burnley’s future.

This is why I get the chills when people keep calling for Lai to go. For all his faults, he didn’t load the club with debt when he bought. Of course, he might now wish he had! But if/when he sells, it’s not stretching imagination to see him selling to some private equity outfit who do secure the purchase price against the club’s assets and future earnings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 23, 2022, 05:48:58 PM
Or to put it even more starkly, imagine being relegated and having to still pay for that £65m striker you splashed out on just before relegation! Except in this case you can’t sell the player on - you’re stuck with the debt. And there never was a player.

A big wedge of Burnley’s parachute money is going to go on repaying this debt, meaning their ability to be competitive enough to bounce straight back will be compromised. If the creditors enforce this repayment too robustly, I fear for Burnley’s future.

This is why I get the chills when people keep calling for Lai to go. For all his faults, he didn’t load the club with debt when he bought. Of course, he might now wish he had! But if/when he sells, it’s not stretching imagination to see him selling to some private equity outfit who do secure the purchase price against the club’s assets and future earnings.



I dont think Burnley are doomed as such but i agree with what you say. Their parachute payments edge has basically been wiped out. Combined with 9 senior players out of contract soon although i believe Ben Mee they have a 1 year option on. They are going to have work hard and frugally.

Pope has 1 year left so i imagine he will be gone but they won't get as much as they'd like for him with 1 year left
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 23, 2022, 06:46:20 PM
The could just refinance away from that deal and onto another interest only deal or at least part amortisation.

I don't think there will be any impact on the capital involved, but the repayment clause suggests that the original loan was relatively low cost.
Due to the risks involved, refinancing would likely be at much higher interest rates, (probably around 9%) so theres likely to be an interest charge of around £6 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on May 23, 2022, 09:21:52 PM
Sounds complicated, it means we are screwed either way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on June 23, 2022, 11:01:07 AM
We are a shadow of the club we were under Peace's ownership. I know a large percentage of people hated him and I hated that we seemed to lack ambition to become a regular top half of the prem club, but... the situation has been awful from the moment he walked away and I would rather it was him in control in a heartbeat.

The club has been a mess and I don't hold out particularly high hopes that we will win promotion this season either.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 23, 2022, 11:14:05 AM
We are a shadow of the club we were under Peace's ownership. I know a large percentage of people hated him and I hated that we seemed to lack ambition to become a regular top half of the prem club, but... the situation has been awful from the moment he walked away and I would rather it was him in control in a heartbeat.

The club has been a mess and I don't hold out particularly high hopes that we will win promotion this season either.

Amen. When Lai took over my concern was not that he said the club will be self-sufficient but the fact he was totally hands off.

Said it many times no one ever care about someone's else's investment other than the owner themselves.

What took nearly 20 years to build Lai oversaw the destruction of in 5
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 26, 2022, 11:44:01 AM
Accounts for 20/21 season are due out this week.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 26, 2022, 11:51:15 AM
Accounts for 20/21 season are due out this week.

Cue a stream of posts suggesting we don't spend anything, we've historically wasted what money we have spent and at least half a dozen to suggest we're being systematically run into the ground for the purpose of asset stripping. Can't wait......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: staticboy on July 08, 2022, 01:17:23 PM
Here we go again, a further £2m...

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2022/07/08/west-brom-confirm-another-loan-as-financial-accounts-finally-made-public/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 08, 2022, 01:49:57 PM
Here we go again, a further £2m...

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2022/07/08/west-brom-confirm-another-loan-as-financial-accounts-finally-made-public/

Is this the £2M that was reported on the other day being rehashed or is it another £2M on top of the other one taking us to £14M in total and not £12M? I'm losing track......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: staticboy on July 08, 2022, 02:35:01 PM
Oh sorry dude, I didn't realise they had already reported the £2m, this is probably already reported then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on July 21, 2022, 08:18:37 AM
West Brom fans bid to stop quick sale of The Hawthorns

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/sandwell/west-bromwich/2022/07/20/west-brom-fans-bid-to-stop-quick-sale-of-the-hawthorns/

As mentioned earlier in this thread, we have to take every measure available to protect “The Shrine”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 21, 2022, 08:35:20 AM
I’ll post the link on Tuesday if I remember and we’ll able to watch the discussion

The ground sale is a big concern of mine at present. No football club should be selling their home.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on July 22, 2022, 09:13:35 PM
Picking up a bit of traction now.

Politicians on all sides back plan to protect The Hawthorns from a quick sale

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/sandwell/2022/07/22/political-consensus-quickly-backs-plan-to-protect-the-hawthorns-from-a-quick-sale/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-hubs/sandwell/2022/07/22/political-consensus-quickly-backs-plan-to-protect-the-hawthorns-from-a-quick-sale/)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 22, 2022, 09:40:02 PM
I’ll post the link on Tuesday if I remember and we’ll able to watch the discussion

The ground sale is a big concern of mine at present. No football club should be selling their home.
I am not unaware of the emotional attachment, but the truth is it’s not and never has been”our ground”, it will always be the owners/majority shareholders…
There are many a club that have sold there stadium ,moved and done ok since,Bournemouth,Brighton,Man City etc.
Many on here have spoken before about the need to expand if we want to actually become a big club,that’s without even mentioning the surround area…imagine being a Hertha Berlin fan tomorrow and having to endure either the waggon and horses or a lucozade from Greg’s.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on July 22, 2022, 09:46:33 PM
Even support North of the border. I think it would be unlikely even if we weren't applying for the Community Asset that us as fans or Sandwell Council would allow Lai to sell a Ground so historic and that has been there for 125 years and has virtually been valuable to West Brom's Economy. But at the same time with Modern football these days and we don't what Lai could be thinking he might sell it of for houses as the ground being small, the area and the land he might see it as putting off Perspective Buyers. At least now the Shrine us safe and this begs the question why didn't Walsall ask/Walsall Council get the Bescot put as a Community Asset same as any football ground it is afterall the heart and sole of communities many grounds have been there when the Community they were in expanded. But good work from Sandwell Council. I can't imagine there would be many objections to the plan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 22, 2022, 09:58:02 PM
There’s no need to worry about it being anything other than a stadium, they’ll know they’d not get the go ahead 

The worry is the stadium being sold (potentially on the cheap) and the club / stadium becoming seperate entities. That comes with long term issues and detrimental future costs.

Making it a community asset at least stops this happening quietly. No fans should be against this and I’m glad the council have seemingly unanimously got on board. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on July 22, 2022, 10:39:21 PM
I might be naieve here. Could Lai sell the ground to one of his other companies and charge us rent to recoup his outlay?
Or sell the ground to anyone and withdraw the money via dividends again to help recoup some of his outlay?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 22, 2022, 11:27:18 PM
Don’t rule anything out, Coventry !!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on July 23, 2022, 10:30:56 AM
Knowing our luck we'll eventually end up with Bassini.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 23, 2022, 10:36:47 AM
Don’t rule anything out, Coventry !!!


The Ricoh was still there. The issue was rent.

I’m fairly certain there haven’t been any professional club stadiums that have just been demolished for housing or other use without an alternative stadium being built, it just doesn’t happen and certainly won’t happen to us.

We might not be the biggest of clubs, but we are big enough there would be national outcry.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 23, 2022, 11:19:19 AM

The Ricoh was still there. The issue was rent.

I’m fairly certain there haven’t been any professional club stadiums that have just been demolished for housing or other use without an alternative stadium being built, it just doesn’t happen and certainly won’t happen to us.

We might not be the biggest of clubs, but we are big enough there would be national outcry.
I was thinking more the sale of highfield road and having to move to Ricoh which was on rental basis and that’s where the trouble started
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 25, 2022, 10:51:20 AM
I am not unaware of the emotional attachment, but the truth is it’s not and never has been”our ground”, it will always be the owners/majority shareholders…
There are many a club that have sold there stadium ,moved and done ok since,Bournemouth,Brighton,Man City etc.
Many on here have spoken before about the need to expand if we want to actually become a big club,that’s without even mentioning the surround area…imagine being a Hertha Berlin fan tomorrow and having to endure either the waggon and horses or a lucozade from Greg’s.

The ground is the home of a football club and no football club should be selling their home and then having to pay extortionate rents going forwards.

If owners are selling football grounds to make additional money then that is the sign of a poorly ran football club.

I find it somewhat ironic that you cite Brighton as an example given they bounced between Priestfield and the Withdean because the club never had a ground. The current ground is owned by the owner who is a Brighton fan and more than happy to provide his wealth to the football club. The other case you raise is owned by their local Council.

That really is not the case here though is it?

We have an owner without a pot to pee in who is already using the clubs money to prop up his other failing businesses.

Any ground sale for us is in the sphere of clubs like Sheff Wed, Reading, Blues and others - not Brighton.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 25, 2022, 12:06:18 PM
The ground is the home of a football club and no football club should be selling their home and then having to pay extortionate rents going forwards.

If owners are selling football grounds to make additional money then that is the sign of a poorly ran football club.

I find it somewhat ironic that you cite Brighton as an example given they bounced between Priestfield and the Withdean because the club never had a ground. The current ground is owned by the owner who is a Brighton fan and more than happy to provide his wealth to the football club. The other case you raise is owned by their local Council.

That really is not the case here though is it?

We have an owner without a pot to pee in who is already using the clubs money to prop up his other failing businesses.

Any ground sale for us is in the sphere of clubs like Sheff Wed, Reading, Blues and others - not Brighton.

Pleased you answered this one Liam as I was in the process of penning something similar.

As you say the Man City ground is owned by the council and there is a 250 year lease in place. The ground is also used for other purposes such as concerts etc ( I saw the Chilli peppers there a few years back) so is being run as a successful commercial venture by the council. I think West Ham have a similar arrangement; again smart as the ground owners pay for the police etc on match days.

I am not sure what agreement is in place with the blues, but the ground was sold for £22m to a Chinese holding company and blues pay £2m a year to rent it back. As I said in an earlier post I don’t think the team saw any of the revenue raised.

You know our owner has zero interest in our club and that is why a potential sale of our ground is very concerning; all he is trying to do is get some of his money back and I really fear where we are going with this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ronnie Allen on July 30, 2022, 12:08:36 PM
I might be naieve here. Could Lai sell the ground to one of his other companies and charge us rent to recoup his outlay?
Or sell the ground to anyone and withdraw the money via dividends again to help recoup some of his outlay?

I’m a bit late to this party, but reading through these posts my mind did start going through various scenarios. One in particular bothered me. Lai’s chances of getting a decent wedge when he sells the club depend entirely on our getting to the EPL.

What if we don’t? What if we become another Champs also ran. What’s the best he can do to get back even a semi respectable sum for his naive purchase? What would selling the land for development bring in? Significantly more than selling a mid table championship club? All questions I don’t know the answer to, except to say nobody buys a football club to make money from football. We know (or think we know) that Lai wants to get rid of the millstone that WBA has become. If you were his financial advisor, what would your advice be?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 30, 2022, 01:49:41 PM
I’m a bit late to this party, but reading through these posts my mind did start going through various scenarios..... If you were his financial advisor, what would your advice be?

If I became his financial advisor I'd sit him down and suggest his previous advisor could have provided more secure alternatives for his investment groups' revenues. Never tell someone they've made stupid financial choices as it dents the ego and makes them defensive.

Then I'd let him know of an exciting opportunity in the final stages of its development which his group could acquire at a reasonable price. A time machine I've been researching how to build via the internet which can be exclusively theirs for the bargain basement price of £100,000,000 so they could go back and make a more informed decision.

I'd then explain how they'd effectively be £88,000,000 up on their initial outlay and suggest a modest 10% brokerage fee for my services. Sold as described, lump sum up front with the only guarantee being no refunds if it doesn't actually work. Eventhough it very definitely might if they all close their eyes and wish. A lot. Then I'd go for cocktails in Jersey.  8) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on July 30, 2022, 03:53:48 PM
This is my take.
I'm not sure that any land can be sold for other than its present use unless it gets planning permission.  I'm certain Sandwell would not give it, but the developer could appeal to the planning inspectorate.  Developers are possessed of a lot of money and thus access to very good silks so it would not be that outlandish if a developer bought the land at a knock down price from Mr Guochuan and applied for change of use.  28,000 letters of protest to the planning inspector would probably sway the argument but you never know.

Mr Guochuan may be in a bind.  China has gone from something like 8% annual growth to 0.4% - mainly by its sledgehammer army-enforced approach to Covid (locking down up entire cities at the first sign of infection and giving locally developed vaccines of uncertain efficacy).  Some developers have got their fingers burnt in the huge boom in infrastructure projects.   President Xi's shutdown of Shanghai will not have done the holding company Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited any favours.  Lai's fellow directors may be looking around desperately to keep the business afloat.

To compound the misery Xi has ordained that every business above some turnover must now support a CCP committee to guide it to conformity with Chinese Communist principles which Xi is busy reforming.

With this nightmare of an owner, anything is possible.  Thank you, thank you JP for your careful and considerate succession planning.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 31, 2022, 08:38:41 AM
This is my take.
I'm not sure that any land can be sold for other than its present use unless it gets planning permission.  I'm certain Sandwell would not give it, but the developer could appeal to the planning inspectorate.  Developers are possessed of a lot of money and thus access to very good silks so it would not be that outlandish if a developer bought the land at a knock down price from Mr Guochuan and applied for change of use.  28,000 letters of protest to the planning inspector would probably sway the argument but you never know.

Mr Guochuan may be in a bind.  China has gone from something like 8% annual growth to 0.4% - mainly by its sledgehammer army-enforced approach to Covid (locking down up entire cities at the first sign of infection and giving locally developed vaccines of uncertain efficacy).  Some developers have got their fingers burnt in the huge boom in infrastructure projects.   President Xi's shutdown of Shanghai will not have done the holding company Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited any favours.  Lai's fellow directors may be looking around desperately to keep the business afloat.

To compound the misery Xi has ordained that every business above some turnover must now support a CCP committee to guide it to conformity with Chinese Communist principles which Xi is busy reforming.

With this nightmare of an owner, anything is possible.  Thank you, thank you JP for your careful and considerate succession planning.

Unless it's part of a major development plan for the area, GL wouldn't get a lot of money for the stadium & it's land.
He's more likely to sell it's naming rights, so IMO, were unlikely to lose the stadium, but we could lose The Hawthorns.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 05, 2022, 06:17:08 PM
Someone just posted on Twitter that it is 6 years today this fraud announced his takeover of us.

6 years too long.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on August 05, 2022, 06:19:49 PM
I went back and found the early posts of when he took over, most people were really excited. I even remember central news being at the ground and some expert said we could be as big as Man City, seriously. A few posters laughed at wolves takeover, how wrong we all were, what an anti climax
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 05, 2022, 06:20:28 PM
Someone just posted on Twitter that it is 6 years today this fraud announced his takeover of us.

6 years too long.

Given how so much of his time with us has dragged it's gone surprisingly quickly on reflection. Six years, bloody hell.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 05, 2022, 06:20:33 PM
I went back and found the early posts of when he took over, most people were really excited. I even remember central news being at the ground and some expert said we could be as big as Man City, seriously. A few posters laughed at wolves takeover, how wrong we all were, what an anti climax

The fact he said the club would be self-sufficient didn't bother me in the slightest. The fact that he virtually immediately took no interest did.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 05, 2022, 06:21:50 PM
Given how so much of his time with us has dragged it's gone surprisingly quickly on reflection. Six years, bloody hell.


It's felt like an eternity for me. Things certainly went downhill very fast that i would agree with.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on August 10, 2022, 05:39:42 AM
Any one here know how Wisdom Smart Corp in Hong Kong fit into the bigger picture?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 10, 2022, 08:30:58 AM
Any one here know how Wisdom Smart Corp in Hong Kong fit into the bigger picture?

This is the company to which Lai lent circa £5million.

Lepkowski et al, claims that because they have substantially reduced their share capital, they won't be able to repay the debt.

On the other hand, research suggests that it's not possible to unilaterally reduce share capital, it has to be authorised. A condition of the authorised reduction in share capital is the company has to demonstrate it can fulfill its obligations on debts.

As far as the comments on Articles of Association is concerned, it appears that changes were needed to accomodate the latest EFL regulations.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Beefy on August 10, 2022, 09:44:44 AM
I was just going to ask the same question. The Company Lai borrowed £5 Million to to help them through covid has apparently run into trouble and has been revalued.
It was £24 Million it's now been valued at £1000, so as CL and AG put it the chances of getting the money back has gone.
Listen here...

Exciting stuff on the field - worrying stuff off it

That's the summary - now listen to the podcast covering all things #WBAFC with @GoldbergRadio @chrislepkowski

https://t.co/GvYjFlmadX
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 10, 2022, 10:09:42 AM
I was just going to ask the same question. The Company Lai borrowed £5 Million to to help them through covid has apparently run into trouble and has been revalued.
It was £24 Million it's now been valued at £1000, so as CL and AG put it the chances of getting the money back has gone.
Listen here...

Exciting stuff on the field - worrying stuff off it

That's the summary - now listen to the podcast covering all things #WBAFC with @GoldbergRadio @chrislepkowski

https://t.co/GvYjFlmadX

I would be really carefull with Lepkowski & Goldberg, everything they say about the financial aspect of the club is speculation.
Neither are financial specialists & most of their comments are clickbait
They tend to rely on input from Keiran Maguire, who gives a generalised as opposed to a specific opinion.

IMO, their opinions on the football side of WBA are just about worth listening to, but not their opinions on the financial side.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 10, 2022, 10:46:34 AM
Unless it's part of a major development plan for the area, GL wouldn't get a lot of money for the stadium & it's land.
He's more likely to sell it's naming rights, so IMO, were unlikely to lose the stadium, but we could lose The Hawthorns.
We will never lose The Hawthorns ! As far as the fans go that’s what it will always be called. It’s a bit like when owners re branded their pubs majority of patrons still referred to their watering hole by its original name
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 10, 2022, 12:41:00 PM
This is the company to which Lai lent circa £5million.

Lepkowski et al, claims that because they have substantially reduced their share capital, they won't be able to repay the debt.

On the other hand, research suggests that it's not possible to unilaterally reduce share capital, it has to be authorised. A condition of the authorised reduction in share capital is the company has to demonstrate it can fulfill its obligations on debts.

As far as the comments on Articles of Association is concerned, it appears that changes were needed to accomodate the latest EFL regulations.

Is business law international ? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 10, 2022, 12:51:02 PM
Is business law international ?


I'm not sure that it's business law, more a global code of practice for stock markets.

In the absence of statutes, codes of practice are normal reference points.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 10, 2022, 05:08:10 PM
Is business law international ?

As controlling shareholder Lai is lending his UK company's money.  The regulations around this might be subject to UK law which is pretty open with most jurisdictions such as Hong Kong. 

I'm guessing the money that was loaned to the Hong Kong based Wisdom Smart company has now been loaned on to Yunyi Guokai Sports.  Perhaps Wisdom Smart exists for this purpose?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bilston Dan on August 10, 2022, 05:22:53 PM
As controlling shareholder Lai is lending his UK company's money.  The regulations around this might be subject to UK law which is pretty open with most jurisdictions such as Hong Kong. 

I'm guessing the money that was loaned to the Hong Kong based Wisdom Smart company has now been loaned on to Yunyi Guokai Sports.  Perhaps Wisdom Smart exists for this purpose?

Money laundering in football...don't be daft! ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 12, 2022, 10:51:42 PM
Just read in the financial Times that wealthy chinese are selling their high end watches etc due to the economic climate, perhaps that's another reason Lai is " borrowing" money from us!
Doesn't look good does it?
He should cut his losses with us and leave
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 12, 2022, 11:40:08 PM
A man with no idea
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KYA on August 14, 2022, 06:20:46 PM
 On days like today, I look beyond the manager and players and think of Lai this bloke is killing our club we should have had another forward in before Dike was injured now it's just bizarre that we haven't strengthened this key position.
Each game without a replacement is costing the club points.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 15, 2022, 11:24:34 AM
Was reported they split the parachute payments over a budget of 3 years not the 2. Leaves more money in the bank should his Chinese enterprises require it.
have to keep his other ventures a float I suppose.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 15, 2022, 11:35:54 AM
have to keep his other ventures a float I suppose.

Think I saw someone on WBA Twitter refer to us as Lais 'Bank of West Brom'
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 15, 2022, 01:10:09 PM
Was reported they split the parachute payments over a budget of 3 years not the 2. Leaves more money in the bank should his Chinese enterprises require it.

I'd be interested to know how they did that.

For example:

Say in year 1 we have income of £60 million, which comprises £10 million from ticket & merchandise sales & £50 million of parachute payments.
Let's then say we identify £10 milion of the income to cover for some of year 2 expenditure.
If we then have expenditure in year 1 of £50 million, we would make a profit of £10 million which is subject to tax.
How do we avoid paying tax (which would be significant) on the £10 million profit, which has, in effect, been set aside to help in year 2?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 15, 2022, 01:13:08 PM
I'd be interested to know how they did that.

For example:

Say in year 1 we have income of £60 million, which comprises £10 million from ticket & merchandise sales & £50 million of parachute payments.
Let's then say we identify £10 milion of the income to cover for some of year 2 expenditure.
If we then have expenditure in year 1 of £50 million, we would make a profit of £10 million which is subject to tax.
How do we avoid paying tax (which would be significant) on the £10 million profit, which has, in effect, been set aside to help in year 2?


Was intriguing to me as well John. I don't have the article to hand sadly. As i recall they planned on using the 2 years money budgeted evenly over 3. How that 2 years is distributed out i don't know personally.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 15, 2022, 01:32:28 PM

Was intriguing to me as well John. I don't have the article to hand sadly. As i recall they planned on using the 2 years money budgeted evenly over 3. How that 2 years is distributed out i don't know personally.

It's a prudent move & one you expect to be supported by HMRC, but I don't know enough about tax laws to be able to comment.
I suppose one way of doing it could be to move money out of your business in the form of a loan to another business, so you don't make a profit that year. Then the loan is repayed in the following tax year.
I really don't know, I was hoping some tax specialists on the forum might be able to help.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 15, 2022, 01:38:12 PM
It's a prudent move & one you expect to be supported by HMRC, but I don't know enough about tax laws to be able to comment.
I suppose one way of doing it could be to move money out of your business in the form of a loan to another business, so you don't make a profit that year. Then the loan is repayed in the following tax year.
I really don't know, I was hoping some tax specialists on the forum might be able to help.

I'm clueless on tax laws myself. Lai has been moving the clubs money about in the PL year as we now know to support his other business. He's quite possibly done it last season too as well. We wouldn't know until next years report though i guess.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 15, 2022, 01:43:06 PM
I'd be interested to know how they did that.

For example:

Say in year 1 we have income of £60 million, which comprises £10 million from ticket & merchandise sales & £50 million of parachute payments.
Let's then say we identify £10 milion of the income to cover for some of year 2 expenditure.
If we then have expenditure in year 1 of £50 million, we would make a profit of £10 million which is subject to tax.
How do we avoid paying tax (which would be significant) on the £10 million profit, which has, in effect, been set aside to help in year 2?
only applies to parachute payments if I’m reading it correctly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 15, 2022, 01:47:22 PM
only applies to parachute payments if I’m reading it correctly.

So are you saying parachute payments are not taxable
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 15, 2022, 02:05:04 PM
So are you saying parachute payments are not taxable
no I’m saying that they have spread parachute payments over three years instead of two.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 15, 2022, 02:25:19 PM
no I’m saying that they have spread parachute payments over three years instead of two.

Which is fine if they receive them over 3 years, but my understanding is they chose to set aside some of the year 2 payment for year 3. in which case, it would show as a profit in year 2 & be subject to tax.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 15, 2022, 04:12:41 PM
If a company loans out money, it does not reduce its liability to corporation tax.  It is also taxed on any interest. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 15, 2022, 05:03:15 PM
Does anyone know if he pays tax in UK for earned of unearned income?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 15, 2022, 05:16:32 PM
Which is fine if they receive them over 3 years, but my understanding is they chose to set aside some of the year 2 payment for year 3. in which case, it would show as a profit in year 2 & be subject to tax.
club set aside payments don’t think prem did , could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 15, 2022, 05:18:28 PM
Does anyone know if he pays tax in UK for earned of unearned income?

I very much doubt that he does as he would be classed as a non domicile.

The club however is fully liable for tax.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 16, 2022, 12:01:53 PM

Yeah, plenty will buy us but none will pay asking. At least it's been reported previously that he now accepts some kind of loss will need to be taken as long as he can recoup most of it.

Guochuan needs to realise that the longer he waits, the worse it would be.  If he had any understanding of English football then he might have a plan to improve the club's results and therefore its value but he doesn't.  So he has to sell OR try and leech as much out of the club as he can.  We're all waiting to see what happens to those loans in Jan 23.

If Wisdom Smart goes bust, I'll wager the WBA is down the list of creditors to receive anything from its liquidated assets ( if there were any tangible assets in the first place)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 16, 2022, 12:04:48 PM
Guochuan needs to realise that the longer he waits, the worse it would be.  If he had any understanding of English football then he might have a plan to improve the club's results and therefore its value but he doesn't.  So he has to sell OR try and leech as much out of the club as he can.  We're all waiting to see what happens to those loans in Jan 23.

If Wisdom Smart goes bust, I'll wager the WBA is down the list of creditors to receive anything from its liquidated assets ( if there were any tangible assets in the first place)


Everyone can see it but Lai. Clueless and way out of his depth
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 16, 2022, 01:37:57 PM
Lots of owners are looking at streaming sites for future revenues , believe those who took charge of Chelski will value club at over £10 billion in next 10 years when streaming becomes the favoured format to watch games.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 16, 2022, 02:09:54 PM
Re : Cash set aside from parachute payments.

Done a bit of digging & it's possible to show "deferred income" as a liabilty on the balance sheet.

It's to cater for a situation where you've received cash in one financial year for a service that you will provide in the next.

So the cash set aside will show as deferred income & therefore excluded from tax commitments.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 16, 2022, 02:22:52 PM
Re : Cash set aside from parachute payments.

Done a bit of digging & it's possible to show "deferred income" as a liabilty on the balance sheet.

It's to cater for a situation where you've received cash in one financial year for a service that you will provide in the next.

So the cash set aside will show as deferred income & therefore excluded from tax commitments.

Thanks for clearing that up John, appreciate your efforts.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 16, 2022, 03:01:32 PM
Re : Cash set aside from parachute payments.

Done a bit of digging & it's possible to show "deferred income" as a liabilty on the balance sheet.

It's to cater for a situation where you've received cash in one financial year for a service that you will provide in the next.

So the cash set aside will show as deferred income & therefore excluded from tax commitments.

I do find it strange that we are putting money aside for next year if Lai is desperate to get us promoted. I would have thought that the money could have been put to good use by strengthening the squad to make sure we go up. It’s almost as though he is planning for another year in the championship, unless he has personally earmarked it for himself....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 16, 2022, 03:17:44 PM
I do find it strange that we are putting money aside for next year if Lai is desperate to get us promoted. I would have thought that the money could have been put to good use by strengthening the squad to make sure we go up. It’s almost as though he is planning for another year in the championship, unless he has personally earmarked it for himself....

I think we all know what his intentions with our money are sadly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 16, 2022, 03:20:27 PM
I think we all know what his intentions with our money are sadly.

I suspect you are right....😞
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 16, 2022, 03:35:51 PM
I do find it strange that we are putting money aside for next year if Lai is desperate to get us promoted. I would have thought that the money could have been put to good use by strengthening the squad to make sure we go up. It’s almost as though he is planning for another year in the championship, unless he has personally earmarked it for himself....

I suspect it's a measured business decision.

As others have said, Lai doen't know enough about the game to make informed decisions by himself, so it's highly likely he's being advised by Ron Gourlay.

Without doubt, this summer, there are enough good players around to fill the gaps in our squad without getting involved in transfer fees. As a result, it might well be that we've identified players who should get us promoted, but in the event that we don't we have a buffer to have a go again next season.

I don't know the exact figures, but, as a Championship club with no parachute payments our income from gate receipts, merchandise sales & sponsorship is likely to be around £10 million, with a futher circa £20 million from media.
So a total income of around £30 million.

Allegedly, we currently have a wages bill of around £40 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 16, 2022, 03:41:23 PM


Allegedly, we currently have a wages bill of around £40 million.

It was 76.9m in the PL 20/21 season.

We have lost most of the big earners since then so i imagine 35-40m tops is about right.

I could be wrong but don't we get 60m in parachute payments? So even split over 3 years thats another 20m a season average.

With the transfer fee surplus we made i'd imagine theres some headroom for Lai to 'borrow' 5m each year if he feels like it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 16, 2022, 04:00:31 PM
It was 76.9m in the PL 20/21 season.

We have lost most of the big earners since then so i imagine 35-40m tops is about right.

I could be wrong but don't we get 60m in parachute payments? So even split over 3 years thats another 20m a season average.

With the transfer fee surplus we made i'd imagine theres some headroom for Lai to 'borrow' 5m each year if he feels like it.


Not sure it has been split evenly, in any case, from the accounts, we have around £13 million outstanding owing to other clubs on transfer fees (Karlam Grant for example).

Lai can "borrow" as much as he likes from the club, the debt will show as an asset on the accounts & we can spend it.
It's only if the borrower defaults on the loan that we have a problem.
Again, following research, business can only lend cash if they can demonstrate that it won't have a negative impact on the business.
As things stand, I believe there are enough checks and balances in place to ensure that Lai is not doing anything untoward, despite what some commentators might be saying
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 16, 2022, 04:03:00 PM

Not sure it has been split evenly, in any case, from the accounts, we have around £13 million outstanding owing to other clubs on transfer fees (Karlam Grant for example).

Lai can "borrow" as much as he likes from the club, the debt will show as an asset on the accounts & we can spend it.
It's only if the borrower defaults on the loan that we have a problem.
Again, following research, business can only lend cash if they can demonstrate that it won't have a negative impact on the business.
As things stand, I believe there are enough checks and balances in place to ensure that Lai is not doing anything untoward, despite what some commentators might be saying


Much appreciated John!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 16, 2022, 04:39:03 PM
I suspect it's a measured business decision.

As others have said, Lai doen't know enough about the game to make informed decisions by himself, so it's highly likely he's being advised by Ron Gourlay..........

You could well be right but I suspect there's a simpler explanation. JP used to follow a three year spending cycle when Jenkins was in situ. I suspect he's adopted his version of 'the three year plan' because it's worked before and he's hoping for the same again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 16, 2022, 10:49:59 PM
Who? Just a name to most
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 17, 2022, 10:22:06 AM
quite possibly our worst owner ever, whos going to put money into china to purchase us. bring trev the shed back.
not good times for the Albion that's for sure
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boingboing1989 on August 17, 2022, 10:12:42 PM
Need some serious noise against this man this season, need to make him unwelcome and get him to realise he needs to sell us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on August 17, 2022, 10:14:31 PM
Whatever you see at Man Utd is happening at Albion just on a smaller scale...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 17, 2022, 10:15:17 PM
One of the very worst owners. Im not sure how this bloke made his money. It has to be property which is almost foolproof if you got the capital to start with
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 17, 2022, 10:21:01 PM
He is absolutely a person who is totally out of his depth.
How the rest of his group tolerate him even, is not understandable.
I follow world wide markets to privately invest in for my pension etc.
btw.. Last week, I was up over £2K, Ooh, I love being a free lancing pensioner who follows and invests.
It mostly works.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 17, 2022, 10:22:55 PM
He is absolutely a person who is totally out of his depth.
How the rest of his group tolerate him even, is not understandable.
I follow world wide markets to privately invest in for my pension etc.
btw.. Last week, I was up over £2K, Ooh, I love being a free lancing pensioner who follows and invests.
It mostly works.


I'll never forget that company you told me about. Luckily I didn't invest in them.  :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 17, 2022, 10:34:42 PM
One of the very worst owners. Im not sure how this bloke made his money. It has to be property which is almost foolproof if you got the capital to start with
related to prem of China
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 17, 2022, 10:42:07 PM
related to prem of China

That will do it then
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on August 17, 2022, 10:45:49 PM
related to prem of China

Is that true? Never seen it reported before?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 18, 2022, 07:12:55 AM
We have been going down hill since this clown took over the reins.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 18, 2022, 08:28:52 AM
We have been going down hill since this clown took over the reins.


I'd say more like we fell off a cliff under this joker. It was apparent we were doomed relatively quickly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 18, 2022, 08:44:00 AM
Here is a quote from business boys leaving speech;

Albion have to grow and the potential to do so under the new owners is very real.

I've been over to China to meet with Guochuan and visit the offices of Palm and their management team. I believe what they presented takes the right long-term view for the Club, a belief that has grown throughout this process.


Would love to have seen that presentation!

What a load of b******t, well done Business boy.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 18, 2022, 08:52:19 AM
Here is a quote from business boys leaving speech;

Albion have to grow and the potential to do so under the new owners is very real.

I've been over to China to meet with Guochuan and visit the offices of Palm and their management team. I believe what they presented takes the right long-term view for the Club, a belief that has grown throughout this process.


Would love to have seen that presentation!

What a load of b******t, well done Business boy.....


That 'presentation'  was the number he was offering written down on paper and showed to JP.  It was a lot higher than other interested parties JP quickly noticed.

"THAT'LL DO" signed sealed and delivered
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 18, 2022, 09:00:07 AM
Lai's ownership is the single biggest issue preventing the club moving forward. Instead he's presided over failure and neglect. It's amazing that fans are still focusing on Bruce and the players when the real problem is Lai and his awful ownership
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tlms-p23 on August 18, 2022, 09:24:32 AM
Here is a quote from business boys leaving speech;

Albion have to grow and the potential to do so under the new owners is very real.

I've been over to China to meet with Guochuan and visit the offices of Palm and their management team. I believe what they presented takes the right long-term view for the Club, a belief that has grown throughout this process.


Would love to have seen that presentation!

What a load of b******t, well done Business boy.....

I was actually supportive of Peace at Albion. Seemed like he tried to run Albion in a sustainable way in a world of overspending and financial mismanagement. But his legacy is selling to Lai and it’s increasingly unforgivable.

It’s no surprise this thread is active every time we get a bad result - the fish rots from the head and the fans know where the blame ultimately lies.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 18, 2022, 09:26:57 AM
I wonder if there are still Albion fans that think Lai is a good owner?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 18, 2022, 09:39:11 AM
Total mis-management from him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on August 18, 2022, 09:45:02 AM
To be fair to Peace, the landscape in China changed after he sold to Lai from one which had been to invest heavily in foreign sports etc to one which didn't really, anymore. Peace wasn't to know that. Do I think he would be overly concerned that it happened? Probably not. But I don't think the sale was made with a total lack of care either.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 18, 2022, 09:46:59 AM
To be fair to Peace, the landscape in China changed after he sold to Lai from one which had been to invest heavily in foreign sports etc to one which didn't really, anymore. Peace wasn't to know that. Do I think he would be overly concerned that it happened? Probably not. But I don't think the sale was made with a total lack of care either.


The sale was made knowing Lai wouldn't invest though regardless of their landscape, which is fine. His total lack of care is not and has never been.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on August 18, 2022, 09:51:05 AM
Despite Bruce looking like a poor manager - the blame has to lie with Lai. Literally every manager since his ownership has left here with a worse reputation (possibly Bilic is the only one who came out looking half decent)

Anyway, my point is that Lai has slowly made the club worse - on and off the pitch. We now have signings who are average championship players at best. As a result, this is our standard now and it will only get worse. A lot of westerners aren't clued up to Chinese culture etc. I will say this, the Chinese economy is in dire straits and has to build real estate to massage GDP figures. I believe one of Lai's main businesses is in real estate.

We have to get a new owner or this will keep happening until we're in league one. Perhaps relegation to league one would force a sale so it may even be a good thing. Until then, our standards keep slipping. We had the likes of Foster, Dawson, Yacob and Rondon and look at our squad now. As I said, even though Bruce isn't blameless, you only had to look at the bench yesterday and see some of our problems.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 18, 2022, 09:54:26 AM

The sale was made knowing Lai wouldn't invest though regardless of their landscape, which is fine. His total lack of care is not and has never been.

Said from day one that there would be no change to the running of the club, so the change of landscape does not really affect the situation. Lai allegedly cannot move money out of China, however he had found a way to move WBA money into it😳
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 18, 2022, 10:03:54 AM
Maybe this will be  why Lai is borrowing money from the club.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-19/xi-s-strict-covid-zero-policy-in-china-pushes-wealthy-to-leave-country

Some 10,000 wealthy Chinese are looking to leave in the wake of punishing lockdowns and an economic slowdown.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 18, 2022, 10:21:13 AM
Maybe this will be  why Lai is borrowing money from the club.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-19/xi-s-strict-covid-zero-policy-in-china-pushes-wealthy-to-leave-country

Some 10,000 wealthy Chinese are looking to leave in the wake of punishing lockdowns and an economic slowdown.

A brief extract from that piece.......

'“Can you imagine that I almost starved to death at the beginning of the lockdown in the most developed city in China?” said the 46-year-old, who recently sold much of his majority stake in two high-end Shanghai restaurants for 20 million yuan ($3 million) and has hired an immigration lawyer and wealth manager to help him move. “I am very sad, but it is time to leave.”

........ the bloke's a millionaire.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 18, 2022, 10:23:11 AM
Also begs the question of how Lai is going to pay his loan(s) back at the end of the year if he used it to prop up his Chinese business.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 18, 2022, 10:26:10 AM
Also begs the question of how Lai is going to pay his loan(s) back at the end of the year if he used it to prop up his Chinese business.....

That is the worrying part Kev,
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on August 18, 2022, 10:33:19 AM
A brief extract from that piece.......

'“Can you imagine that I almost starved to death at the beginning of the lockdown in the most developed city in China?” said the 46-year-old, who recently sold much of his majority stake in two high-end Shanghai restaurants for 20 million yuan ($3 million) and has hired an immigration lawyer and wealth manager to help him move. “I am very sad, but it is time to leave.”

........ the bloke's a millionaire.

Dan another brief extract from the piece which is more relevant to our Chinese Owner.

Would-be emigrants also need to get savvier at moving money out of China. Citizens are only allowed to convert $50,000-worth of yuan into foreign currency each year. In the past, wealthier people have found ways around the rule, but some of those options are dwindling.

Just a year ago, viable options for shifting money out of China included using cryptocurrencies or making a private arrangement with an overseas counterpart looking to send yuan onshore. However, China's sweeping crackdown on crypto in the last few years has meant bans on almost all activities including exchanges, initial coin offerings, mining and transactions.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 18, 2022, 11:14:54 AM
WBA supporter on  talksport last night said he's had enough of the club since Lai took over. Given up his season ticket and the club is toxic. A fair statement
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2022, 12:05:39 PM
Also begs the question of how Lai is going to pay his loan(s) back at the end of the year if he used it to prop up his Chinese business.....

Chinese residents are allowed to remit funds abroad to repay certain foreign debt.  One relevant aspect here is that Lai personally doesn’t seem to be the legal borrower, so it is impossible to know what rules apply.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 18, 2022, 12:53:26 PM
Is that true? Never seen it reported before?
he’s his little brother   :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on August 18, 2022, 01:06:34 PM
I truly cant see a happy ending for both the club or Lai. We are stuck with an owner that keeps borrowing from us, and with no likely way of paying the money back. An owner that wants 'out' but has zero chance of selling right now, unless he accepts literally peanuts. If the 'Blues' are being bought for around £35m, then I can't see us getting much more. There's no way Lai will take that hit. He's NEVER going to get his money back, but is praying for a miracle that we get promoted without spending any real money. Even then he wont get anywhere near his money back. The other side of the coin is we slowly stagnate once the parachute money is gone, at which point we will be as good as worthless to him. I really can't see how he gets out of this situation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on August 18, 2022, 01:12:01 PM
I can see us doing what Wolves did in the 80's, and dropping through the leagues, as we end up selling any of the decent assets to balance the books.

There, I said it.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 18, 2022, 01:18:21 PM
I can see us doing what Wolves did in the 80's, and dropping through the leagues, as we end up selling any of the decent assets to balance the books.

There, I said it.......
just hope Dingle’s do us a favour and sell us player’s on cheap like we did back in the day.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionfan1983 on August 18, 2022, 02:16:01 PM
I can see us doing what Wolves did in the 80's, and dropping through the leagues, as we end up selling any of the decent assets to balance the books.

There, I said it.......

That's overdramatic. I dont think this will happen. We will go back to what we was like between 93-00 and being around midtable
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2022, 02:48:25 PM

The recklessness of the directors sanctioning loans to Lai when they are much needed by the company in order to carry out its commercial business is something that has not got the attention it commands.  The directors have acted in breach of their fiduciary duties and are - or should be - made accountable for it by the 12% minority shareholders, to whom the directors owe a clear fiduciary duty.

The directors right now should be demanding repayment of the loans, and if Lai (as a shareholder) tries to remove them as directors for doing so, then the directors must apply to the court for an injunction against removing them, because all they are doing is addressing their fiduciary duties.  The company could ultimately have the right to cancel/buyback Lai’s shares to the value of his unpaid loans if he does not repay them.

The 12% minority shareholders have a major role to play here to get that £12m back into the company.  Lai simply cannot do what he wants.  Company law protects minority shareholders.

Did Gourlay resign from the board because of this?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 18, 2022, 03:01:41 PM
The recklessness of the directors sanctioning loans to Lai when they are much needed by the company in order to carry out its commercial business is something that has not got the attention it commands.  The directors have acted in breach of their fiduciary duties and are - or should be - made accountable for it by the 12% minority shareholders, to whom the directors owe a clear fiduciary duty.

The directors right now should be demanding repayment of the loans, and if Lai (as a shareholder) tries to remove them as directors for doing so, then the directors must apply to the court for an injunction against removing them, because all they are doing is addressing their fiduciary duties.  The company could ultimately have the right to cancel/buyback Lai’s shares to the value of his unpaid loans if he does not repay them.

The 12% minority shareholders have a major role to play here to get that £12m back into the company.  Lai simply cannot do what he wants.  Company law protects minority shareholders.

Did Gourlay resign from the board because of this?

S4A have already been in contact with the club and have issued a ream of questions to this effect. I think they're also exploring the possibility of claiming the expenses they've incurred taking legal advice thus far too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 18, 2022, 03:40:02 PM
Graham Stephen @GrahamStephen (Real Estate Investor) has tweeted a thread about the Chinese economy, below is the first of 15 posts and worth a read

“The Chinese economy is experiencing a near-complete collapse.

Nearly half a million customers have lost their deposits as the banks lent indiscriminately to housing developers who are now facing cascading defaults.”

Here’s the story the Chinese Govt. doesn't want you to know 👇
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 18, 2022, 03:40:58 PM
Graham Stephen @GrahamStephen (Real Estate Investor) has tweeted a thread about the Chinese economy, below is the first of 15 posts and worth a read

“The Chinese economy is experiencing a near-complete collapse.

Nearly half a million customers have lost their deposits as the banks lent indiscriminately to housing developers who are now facing cascading defaults.”

Here’s the story the Chinese Govt. doesn't want you to know 👇

I read that earlier. Their land/property prices are even more ridiculous than ours
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 18, 2022, 04:32:12 PM
The recklessness of the directors sanctioning loans to Lai when they are much needed by the company in order to carry out its commercial business is something that has not got the attention it commands.  The directors have acted in breach of their fiduciary duties and are - or should be - made accountable for it by the 12% minority shareholders, to whom the directors owe a clear fiduciary duty.

The directors right now should be demanding repayment of the loans, and if Lai (as a shareholder) tries to remove them as directors for doing so, then the directors must apply to the court for an injunction against removing them, because all they are doing is addressing their fiduciary duties.  The company could ultimately have the right to cancel/buyback Lai’s shares to the value of his unpaid loans if he does not repay them.

The 12% minority shareholders have a major role to play here to get that £12m back into the company.  Lai simply cannot do what he wants.  Company law protects minority shareholders.

Did Gourlay resign from the board because of this?

Nail - Head  <-  Hammer
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 18, 2022, 05:51:13 PM
The recklessness of the directors sanctioning loans to Lai when they are much needed by the company in order to carry out its commercial business is something that has not got the attention it commands.  The directors have acted in breach of their fiduciary duties and are - or should be - made accountable for it by the 12% minority shareholders, to whom the directors owe a clear fiduciary duty.

The directors right now should be demanding repayment of the loans, and if Lai (as a shareholder) tries to remove them as directors for doing so, then the directors must apply to the court for an injunction against removing them, because all they are doing is addressing their fiduciary duties.  The company could ultimately have the right to cancel/buyback Lai’s shares to the value of his unpaid loans if he does not repay them.

The 12% minority shareholders have a major role to play here to get that £12m back into the company.  Lai simply cannot do what he wants.  Company law protects minority shareholders.

Did Gourlay resign from the board because of this?

The loan in the accounts suggested a valuation of around 85m in September 21 which has probably dropped furthered based on us not getting back up at the first time of asking.

This makes the £10-£12m lai owes worth around 15% or more of the company. If the company exchanged shares  for the money, how would that work and who would own them then? Not sure I understand. Would they need to be distributed amongst the S4A shareholders?

Can’t see the above happening mind. I expect at some point dividends will be used to pay it back, meaning the club lose out anyway.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 18, 2022, 06:16:29 PM
The loan in the accounts suggested a valuation of around 85m in September 21 which has probably dropped furthered based on us not getting back up at the first time of asking.

This makes the £10-£12m lai owes worth around 15% or more of the company. If the company exchanged shares  for the money, how would that work and who would own them then? Not sure I understand. Would they need to be distributed amongst the S4A shareholders?

Can’t see the above happening mind. I expect at some point dividends will be used to pay it back, meaning the club lose out anyway.


I don't get the dividend option either.

Without a cash injection, he would have to get the funds from the sale of assets.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 18, 2022, 06:55:23 PM
Surely Lai would have the sell his shares on the open market to raise the money he owes the club.
Anyone [interested / mad enough to consider] investing could then buy those shares?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on August 18, 2022, 07:03:01 PM
That's overdramatic. I dont think this will happen. We will go back to what we was like between 93-00 and being around midtable
We're already at that point, and I can see us getting a lot worse than this once the parachute payment as gone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on August 18, 2022, 08:01:32 PM
We will need a scuba diving payment soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2022, 11:24:08 PM
Surely Lai would have the sell his shares on the open market to raise the money he owes the club.
Anyone [interested / mad enough to consider] investing could then buy those shares?

It’s a private company - there’s no “open market”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on August 19, 2022, 03:28:13 PM
That is the worrying part Kev,

All depends on the covenants of the loan.  We don’t know precisely who it is loaned to and the security of that loan.  If it is secured against a defined asset then the club could be in a very strong position.  If it’s a deeply subordinated loan that sits behind other loans and mortgages and is just a general charge against a swirling pool of assets, then far less so.  It will also depend on the jurisdiction.  We would hope that it’s governed by the courts of England and Wales against UK based assets but if it’s in China, things become less certain.   One would hope that the directors of our company, undertaking their fiduciary duty solely to our shareholders (or which Mr Lai is the largest but not the only!), would have taken appropriate advice to ensure that WBA are fully protected and that the T&Cs favour the lender, not the borrower.    Let’s hope…
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on August 19, 2022, 04:26:38 PM
Not sure what the end game is here, 7m taken out from 180m invested seems inconsequential when you look at the clubs value loss (probably 100m or more). its not like he can keep pulling money out unless we sell players on mass and all the time the value of the club goes down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 19, 2022, 05:41:41 PM
Not sure what the end game is here, 7m taken out from 180m invested seems inconsequential when you look at the clubs value loss (probably 100m or more). its not like he can keep pulling money out unless we sell players on mass and all the time the value of the club goes down.

He has been looking at selling the ground so it kind of tells you where he is at......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 21, 2022, 11:11:08 AM
The son of Lai was at the game yesterday according to the E+S. They kept that quiet. Probably for the best
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 21, 2022, 11:34:36 PM
He has been looking at selling the ground so it kind of tells you where he is at......

There is zero evidence whatsoever of that.  We merely released a charge over the ground that Barclays had when we owed them money which has now been repaid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 22, 2022, 08:24:49 AM
There is zero evidence whatsoever of that.  We merely released a charge over the ground that Barclays had when we owed them money which has now been repaid.

IMO, he wouldn't get a lot of money if he did sell the stadium & the ground, but I'm still intrigued, where he would get the profit from in order to pay a dividend & re-pay his loan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 22, 2022, 08:35:34 AM
Surely Lai would have the sell his shares on the open market to raise the money he owes the club.
Anyone [interested / mad enough to consider] investing could then buy those shares?

It’s a private company - there’s no “open market”

It's a private company, but he can still sell a portion to pay off his debts to us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 22, 2022, 08:45:48 AM
There is zero evidence whatsoever of that.  We merely released a charge over the ground that Barclays had when we owed them money which has now been repaid.

I stand corrected OB, you are right that there is no direct evidence to support this assertion. There is a move to make the ground an Asset of Community which has been taken forward by a councillor- I am not sure where we are with that. It is basically an extra level of security to protect the ground from sale through the back door. So whilst there is no direct evidence of his intentions, through his penchant for borrowing money from the club and not paying it back ( or the debt he inherited) it demonstrates his need for money and steps have been taken to stop what many think is his next logical step.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 22, 2022, 10:27:58 AM
It's a private company, but he can still sell a portion to pay off his debts to us?



I believe you used the phrase "interested/mad enough" to describe a buyer in a previous comment?

The football club is probably worth around £90 million at the moment, Lai's share of that would be around £79 million.

To re-pay the loans he would have to sell around £12 miilion, that's around 15% of his stake.
For that amount, I think I'd want a seat on the board.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 22, 2022, 06:28:45 PM
... with a monogrammed cushion on it!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 27, 2022, 08:28:29 PM
The minority shareholders need to urgently exert pressure on the board to force Lai to urgently repay his loans owed to the club.  The board directors acted in breach of their fiduciary duty by agreeing to advance money to him. That means they are on the hook personally for any loss suffered by the club and can be sued (one would expect them to have D&O cover to insure their personal liability).

Anyone wanting to sue the board would need to be a shareholder. I’m not currently but am certainly prepared to look at it.  Does anyone know what price any shares might be available for currently? I would only really need one share.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 27, 2022, 08:40:55 PM
The minority shareholders need to urgently exert pressure on the board to force Lai to urgently repay his loans owed to the club.  The board directors acted in breach of their fiduciary duty by agreeing to advance money to him. That means they are on the hook personally for any loss suffered by the club and can be sued (one would expect them to have D&O cover to insure their personal liability).

Anyone wanting to sue the board would need to be a shareholder. I’m not currently but am certainly prepared to look at it.  Does anyone know what price any shares might be available for currently? I would only really need one share.

According to below from S4A there are only 9,600 shares in the company float which is a TINY float and Lai owns 88% of them is it? So looks like there are a total of 1000 shares roughly in everyone elses hands combined.

Personally I am very surprised S4A have said nothing on these loans to Lai, in public anyway. I was going to get some with you but i guess you would be looking at closer to 10k for a share at book value unless theres someone who is terrified of where Lai is taking us and is willing to sell cheap.

If i recall when the club initially floated they were £500 each because i wanted one but i was a kid  ;D  but if there are some shareholders who bought in at £500 then they might sell at less than book value. I would. If i was a shareholder when Lai took over i'd have sold up after his first full season where he relegated us.





How do I buy or sell shares in WBA Group?

Unlike many other clubs, there is such a small number of shares in issue (approximately 9,600), the majority of which are controlled by a single individual, that no public market exists for the sale or purchase of shares in WBA Group. Transactions are carried out purely between individuals, so if you want to buy some you need to find someone willing to sell and vice-versa.

If you are in either category, we may be able to help you connect with someone in the other. However, you should be aware that the acquisition of WBA Holdings by Guochuan Lai in 2016 corresponded to a share value of somewhere around £20,000 each, which represented a significant increase on the £3-4,000 they were previously being traded at.
How do I join?

Membership is limited to owners and part-owners of shares in WBA Group Limited and our annual membership fee is £10 for individuals and £15 for family membership (i.e. where there is more than one shareholder in the family).

For further information about Shareholders For Albion please contact info@s4a.org
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 12:40:52 AM
According to below from S4A there are only 9,600 shares in the company float which is a TINY float and Lai owns 88% of them is it? So looks like there are a total of 1000 shares roughly in everyone elses hands combined.

Personally I am very surprised S4A have said nothing on these loans to Lai, in public anyway. I was going to get some with you but i guess you would be looking at closer to 10k for a share at book value unless theres someone who is terrified of where Lai is taking us and is willing to sell cheap.

If i recall when the club initially floated they were £500 each because i wanted one but i was a kid  ;D  but if there are some shareholders who bought in at £500 then they might sell at less than book value. I would. If i was a shareholder when Lai took over i'd have sold up after his first full season where he relegated us.





How do I buy or sell shares in WBA Group?

Unlike many other clubs, there is such a small number of shares in issue (approximately 9,600), the majority of which are controlled by a single individual, that no public market exists for the sale or purchase of shares in WBA Group. Transactions are carried out purely between individuals, so if you want to buy some you need to find someone willing to sell and vice-versa.

If you are in either category, we may be able to help you connect with someone in the other. However, you should be aware that the acquisition of WBA Holdings by Guochuan Lai in 2016 corresponded to a share value of somewhere around £20,000 each, which represented a significant increase on the £3-4,000 they were previously being traded at.
How do I join?

Membership is limited to owners and part-owners of shares in WBA Group Limited and our annual membership fee is £10 for individuals and £15 for family membership (i.e. where there is more than one shareholder in the family).

For further information about Shareholders For Albion please contact info@s4a.org


Thank you Gazberg.  Extremely helpful.  I will contact S4A.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 28, 2022, 01:10:19 AM
Thank you Gazberg.  Extremely helpful.  I will contact S4A.

No worries. Hopefully you can get a share at a fair price!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 28, 2022, 08:06:59 AM
The minority shareholders need to urgently exert pressure on the board to force Lai to urgently repay his loans owed to the club.  The board directors acted in breach of their fiduciary duty by agreeing to advance money to him. That means they are on the hook personally for any loss suffered by the club and can be sued (one would expect them to have D&O cover to insure their personal liability).

Anyone wanting to sue the board would need to be a shareholder. I’m not currently but am certainly prepared to look at it.  Does anyone know what price any shares might be available for currently? I would only really need one share.

As I understand it, S4A are currently pursuing the issue and have legal representation in the matter.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 28, 2022, 09:32:15 AM
As I understand it, S4A are currently pursuing the issue and have legal representation in the matter.

That's good to hear.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on August 28, 2022, 09:40:15 AM
If GL has any interest in this club and his investment then he’d find a way of repaying his loan this week to enable us to sign a striker. I won’t hold my breath.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 28, 2022, 10:04:13 AM
According to below from S4A there are only 9,600 shares in the company float which is a TINY float and Lai owns 88% of them is it? So looks like there are a total of 1000 shares roughly in everyone elses hands combined.

Personally I am very surprised S4A have said nothing on these loans to Lai, in public anyway. I was going to get some with you but i guess you would be looking at closer to 10k for a share at book value unless theres someone who is terrified of where Lai is taking us and is willing to sell cheap.

If i recall when the club initially floated they were £500 each because i wanted one but i was a kid  ;D  but if there are some shareholders who bought in at £500 then they might sell at less than book value. I would. If i was a shareholder when Lai took over i'd have sold up after his first full season where he relegated us.





How do I buy or sell shares in WBA Group?

Unlike many other clubs, there is such a small number of shares in issue (approximately 9,600), the majority of which are controlled by a single individual, that no public market exists for the sale or purchase of shares in WBA Group. Transactions are carried out purely between individuals, so if you want to buy some you need to find someone willing to sell and vice-versa.

If you are in either category, we may be able to help you connect with someone in the other. However, you should be aware that the acquisition of WBA Holdings by Guochuan Lai in 2016 corresponded to a share value of somewhere around £20,000 each, which represented a significant increase on the £3-4,000 they were previously being traded at.
How do I join?

Membership is limited to owners and part-owners of shares in WBA Group Limited and our annual membership fee is £10 for individuals and £15 for family membership (i.e. where there is more than one shareholder in the family).

For further information about Shareholders For Albion please contact info@s4a.org



Interesting post Gaz.

Remarkable, that the share value was around £3000 to £4000, so the value of the football club was around £38 million & yet Lai paid JP around £150-160 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 10:08:53 AM

Interesting post Gaz.

Remarkable, that the share value was around £3000 to £4000, so the value of the football club was around £38 million & yet Lai paid JP around £150-160 million.

Not really because you pay a lot more for a controlling interest in any company
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 10:09:54 AM
As I understand it, S4A are currently pursuing the issue and have legal representation in the matter.

Very good to hear.   Am still interested in acquiring a share though
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 28, 2022, 10:14:29 AM
The minority shareholders need to urgently exert pressure on the board to force Lai to urgently repay his loans owed to the club.  The board directors acted in breach of their fiduciary duty by agreeing to advance money to him. That means they are on the hook personally for any loss suffered by the club and can be sued (one would expect them to have D&O cover to insure their personal liability).

Anyone wanting to sue the board would need to be a shareholder. I’m not currently but am certainly prepared to look at it.  Does anyone know what price any shares might be available for currently? I would only really need one share.

Apologies if I’ve misunderstood, but I would think it’s extremely unlikely (nigh on impossible) a new shareholder could successfully sue for actions that took place before their interest began. You’d be investing with the knowledge the entity had loaned to the owner. If he doesn’t pay the loan back when it’s been publically said he would on the other hand…..

I still think Yexisting shareholders would be far more likely to be successful though. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 11:02:53 AM
Apologies if I’ve misunderstood, but I would think it’s extremely unlikely (nigh on impossible) a new shareholder could successfully sue for actions that took place before their interest began. You’d be investing with the knowledge the entity had loaned to the owner. If he doesn’t pay the loan back when it’s been publically said he would on the other hand…..

I still think Yexisting shareholders would be far more likely to be successful though.

It wouldn’t be a personal action by me.  I wanted to ensure that a case was being made by the minority shareholders and it’s easier to do that from within, as a shareholder.  It is also very likely that further issues will arise going forward while Lai remains involved.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 28, 2022, 11:28:50 AM
It wouldn’t be a personal action by me.  I wanted to ensure that a case was being made by the minority shareholders and it’s easier to do that from within, as a shareholder.  It is also very likely that further issues will arise going forward while Lai remains involved.

And that's the worrying thing. The picture isn't looking especially rosey at the moment. But it wouldn't be overly surprising for the remaining petals to fall away completely leaving us with just some prickly thorns in the @rris.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 28, 2022, 12:12:11 PM
And that's the worrying thing. The picture isn't looking especially rosey at the moment. But it wouldn't be overly surprising for the remaining petals to fall away completely leaving us with just some prickly thorns in the @rris.

Again my understanding is that the S4A Committee, that includes members with a range of financial, commercial and legal skills are all over the Baggies Board at the moment on the complete spectrum of issues past, present and with an eye to the possibility of future issues arising
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 28, 2022, 02:03:04 PM
Again my understanding is that the S4A Committee, that includes members with a range of financial, commercial and legal skills are all over the Baggies Board at the moment on the complete spectrum of issues past, present and with an eye to the possibility of future issues arising

I'm aware of S4A's current involvement and that they've been voicing concerns for some time too. Yet despite their concerns and questions over a sustained period of time they were no wiser than the rest of us re recent developments. It's not beyond the realms of possibility for there to be more concerning news lurking around the corner too.

Whatever anyone thinks of our current owners there are several things nobody can dispute. Lai sees us as a convenient source of low interest loans for his other interests. Thus far at least he hasn't endured the inconvenience of repaying them on time either.

China meanwhile (where many of Lai's interests appear to be) is facing a very challenging time economically and there's a little problem facing Taiwan. This problem could very likely lead to economic sanctions for Chinese business interests in the UK.

I'm not catastrophising by the way, I'm facing the reality there are bigger things at play here than football. S4A can ask as many questions as they like but let's not pretend West Bromwich Albion or Lai feature very high on the radar of the Chinese authorities. We're stuck with Lai and between us we're both stuck between a rock and a very hard place.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 02:46:26 PM
I'm aware of S4A's current involvement and that they've been voicing concerns for some time too. Yet despite their concerns and questions over a sustained period of time they were no wiser than the rest of us re recent developments. It's not beyond the realms of possibility for there to be more concerning news lurking around the corner too.

Whatever anyone thinks of our current owners there are several things nobody can dispute. Lai sees us as a convenient source of low interest loans for his other interests. Thus far at least he hasn't endured the inconvenience of repaying them on time either.

China meanwhile (where many of Lai's interests appear to be) is facing a very challenging time economically and there's a little problem facing Taiwan. This problem could very likely lead to economic sanctions for Chinese business interests in the UK.

I'm not catastrophising by the way, I'm facing the reality there are bigger things at play here than football. S4A can ask as many questions as they like but let's not pretend West Bromwich Albion or Lai feature very high on the radar of the Chinese authorities. We're stuck with Lai and between us we're both stuck between a rock and a very hard place.

Very true, but Lai doesn’t lend money to itself.  It can only happen with the approval of the board (which isn’t him), and they are on blatant breach of their fiduciary duty by approving it.  So by stopping it from ever happening again, Lai has to stop viewing the club as a friendly lender, which in turn reduces the attraction to him of holding onto the club.

At some point, his desire to not lose face (very important in Chinese culture) by selling at a big loss is exceeded by the need to get whatever he can get for the club.  By making it very clear that he can’t rape the club for cash, that can only help build the pressure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 28, 2022, 03:52:45 PM
Very true, but Lai doesn’t lend money to itself.  It can only happen with the approval of the board (which isn’t him), and they are on blatant breach of their fiduciary duty by approving it.  So by stopping it from ever happening again, Lai has to stop viewing the club as a friendly lender, which in turn reduces the attraction to him of holding onto the club.

At some point, his desire to not lose face (very important in Chinese culture) by selling at a big loss is exceeded by the need to get whatever he can get for the club.  By making it very clear that he can’t rape the club for cash, that can only help build the pressure.


I was going to ask about that.  I know the Chinese don't want to lose face, Lai showed this by stepping in and stopping Wilder appointment but surely they has to come a point where they have to admit to themselves that they are clueless and selling as a big loss will be better than losing it all?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 04:22:27 PM

I was going to ask about that.  I know the Chinese don't want to lose face, Lai showed this by stepping in and stopping Wilder appointment but surely they has to come a point where they have to admit to themselves that they are clueless and selling as a big loss will be better than losing it all?

That’s exactly the situation. The big unknown is when that tipping point will occur.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 28, 2022, 04:22:45 PM
Very good to hear.   Am still interested in acquiring a share though
So just to be clear
You would belive it acceptable that you can buy one single share to have a way to prevent certain actions, but the guy that owns over 70% share shouldn’t be allowed to do stuff?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 28, 2022, 05:30:34 PM
So just to be clear
You would belive it acceptable that you can buy one single share to have a way to prevent certain actions, but the guy that owns over 70% share shouldn’t be allowed to do stuff?

Surely if something's breaking the financial rules, the size of the shareholding is immaterial?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 28, 2022, 05:36:26 PM
That’s exactly the situation. The big unknown is when that tipping point will occur.


I imagine it would be when we were in L1 or 2 sadly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 05:42:36 PM
So just to be clear
You would belive it acceptable that you can buy one single share to have a way to prevent certain actions, but the guy that owns over 70% share shouldn’t be allowed to do stuff?

That’s not how company law works.  Shareholders don’t run companies - the board of directors does.   Minority shareholders have rights to be protected.  Lai could only do as he likes (because nobody else is in a position to complain) if he owned 100% - which he doesn’t.  Even shareholders owning 75% or more still have to be aware of their duties to minority shareholders.

More importantly, every director of every company owes a fiduciary duty to that company and all of its shareholders to act in the best interests of the company at all times.  There’s no circumstances in which lending the company’s scarce cash resources to Lai was acting in the best interests of the company. That’s a clear breach of fiduciary duty.  The 88% majority shareholder isn’t going to kick up a stink about that because he is the loan beneficiary, but the 12% minority shareholders should certainly do so. 

Of course a majority shareholder could pass a shareholders’ resolution to force through a board resolution but that does not negate the fiduciary duty owed by the directors to the company, who either got through with the breach, or they have to resign out of principle.  It seems likely that Ron Gourlay did exactly that, leaving Lai’s puppet as the sole remaining director.   He’s on the hook personally for any breach of fiduciary duty. 

Holding one share of course doesn’t prevent any such actions, but by owning a share I would become a person to whom a fiduciary duty is owed by the board - that’s the objective because we must do everything possible to get the existing loans repaid and prevent any further looting of the club Lai.  Every little helps and I want to help.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 28, 2022, 05:44:28 PM
So just to be clear
You would belive it acceptable that you can buy one single share to have a way to prevent certain actions, but the guy that owns over 70% share shouldn’t be allowed to do stuff?



Anyone who is a shareholder usually has a say although obviously Lai has the vast majority so could push things through however all shareholders have certain protections in place to stop majority holders screwing them over.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 28, 2022, 06:15:58 PM
I'm aware of S4A's current involvement and that they've been voicing concerns for some time too. Yet despite their concerns and questions over a sustained period of time they were no wiser than the rest of us re recent developments. It's not beyond the realms of possibility for there to be more concerning news lurking around the corner too.

Whatever anyone thinks of our current owners there are several things nobody can dispute. Lai sees us as a convenient source of low interest loans for his other interests. Thus far at least he hasn't endured the inconvenience of repaying them on time either.

China meanwhile (where many of Lai's interests appear to be) is facing a very challenging time economically and there's a little problem facing Taiwan. This problem could very likely lead to economic sanctions for Chinese business interests in the UK.

I'm not catastrophising by the way, I'm facing the reality there are bigger things at play here than football. S4A can ask as many questions as they like but let's not pretend West Bromwich Albion or Lai feature very high on the radar of the Chinese authorities. We're stuck with Lai and between us we're both stuck between a rock and a very hard place.

Good post Dan. In respect of the highlighted point I think you are correct but what does surprise me is that there have been no ‘Lai out’ protests by at the ground. China is very sensitive and would not be happy over anti Chinese news. Regardless of what our thoughts and views about this have been in the past, the Chinese Authorities would get to know about it and may give Lai ‘some advice’. It just may be that he is forced to sell regardless.

We have got to try everything and anything to get this clown out of our club.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 28, 2022, 06:21:24 PM
That’s not how company law works.  Shareholders don’t run companies - the board of directors does.   Minority shareholders have rights to be protected.  Lai could only do as he likes (because nobody else is in a position to complain) if he owned 100% - which he doesn’t.  Even shareholders owning 75% or more still have to be aware of their duties to minority shareholders.

More importantly, every director of every company owes a fiduciary duty to that company and all of its shareholders to act in the best interests of the company at all times.  There’s no circumstances in which lending the company’s scarce cash resources to Lai was acting in the best interests of the company. That’s a clear breach of fiduciary duty.  The 88% majority shareholder isn’t going to kick up a stink about that because he is the loan beneficiary, but the 12% minority shareholders should certainly do so. 

Of course a majority shareholder could pass a shareholders’ resolution to force through a board resolution but that does not negate the fiduciary duty owed by the directors to the company, who either got through with the breach, or they have to resign out of principle.  It seems likely that Ron Gourlay did exactly that, leaving Lai’s puppet as the sole remaining director.   He’s on the hook personally for any breach of fiduciary duty. 

Holding one share of course doesn’t prevent any such actions, but by owning a share I would become a person to whom a fiduciary duty is owed by the board - that’s the objective because we must do everything possible to get the existing loans repaid and prevent any further looting of the club Lai.  Every little helps and I want to help.
I genuinely appreciate your reply .
I do think you have to be careful in terms of any accusations made in terms of financial/legal wrongdoing ….you would also expect at least one of the people who already have shares to have asked a question if any of them thought there was something amiss ??
I get that people are emotionally invested and understand that every fan of every club wants theirs to be the best they can,sign the best players,win every match ,win a trophy,but the realistic side of me understands that millionaires run football,overseas investors own clubs,sky decide the fixture schedule and fans are now bit part players.
Too many feel that they can change things or have a voice,when they just cannot.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 06:33:49 PM
I genuinely appreciate your reply .
I do think you have to be careful in terms of any accusations made in terms of financial/legal wrongdoing ….you would also expect at least one of the people who already have shares to have asked a question if any of them thought there was something amiss ??
I get that people are emotionally invested and understand that every fan of every club wants theirs to be the best they can,sign the best players,win every match ,win a trophy,but the realistic side of me understands that millionaires run football,overseas investors own clubs,sky decide the fixture schedule and fans are now bit part players.
Too many feel that they can change things or have a voice,when they just cannot.

No need to patronise me - I’ve worked in financial services for four decades and work extensively on company law and deal with fiduciary duty on a daily basis. I stand fully behind what I’ve said.

Just because existing shareholders may have spotted that something is amiss does not necessarily mean that they have found the right way to try to address it.  They may well have done - I’d like to find out.  I’m happy to buy a share in order to find out.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and as mentioned earlier it’s equally essential HK ensure that there are no further repeats by Lai.

The circumstances behind Ron Gourlay’s resignation as a director at around the time that the details of the loans were published would be extremely interesting to know more about. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 28, 2022, 07:14:36 PM
Just as well Lai et.al didn't bother to buy out those pesky little shareholders then. Probably couldn't have afforded too anyway given how high over the odds they paid. That or they didn't fully appreciate what they were doing...... or they've just been really stupid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 07:27:55 PM
Just as well Lai et.al didn't bother to buy out those pesky little shareholders then. Probably couldn't have afforded too anyway given how high over the odds they paid. That or they didn't fully appreciate what they were doing...... or they've just been really stupid.

I dread to think what Lai could have got away with if he’d bought the full 100%
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 28, 2022, 08:38:56 PM
That’s not how company law works.  Shareholders don’t run companies - the board of directors does.   Minority shareholders have rights to be protected.  Lai could only do as he likes (because nobody else is in a position to complain) if he owned 100% - which he doesn’t.  Even shareholders owning 75% or more still have to be aware of their duties to minority shareholders.

More importantly, every director of every company owes a fiduciary duty to that company and all of its shareholders to act in the best interests of the company at all times.  There’s no circumstances in which lending the company’s scarce cash resources to Lai was acting in the best interests of the company. That’s a clear breach of fiduciary duty.  The 88% majority shareholder isn’t going to kick up a stink about that because he is the loan beneficiary, but the 12% minority shareholders should certainly do so. 

Of course a majority shareholder could pass a shareholders’ resolution to force through a board resolution but that does not negate the fiduciary duty owed by the directors to the company, who either got through with the breach, or they have to resign out of principle. It seems likely that Ron Gourlay did exactly that, leaving Lai’s puppet as the sole remaining director.   He’s on the hook personally for any breach of fiduciary duty. 

Holding one share of course doesn’t prevent any such actions, but by owning a share I would become a person to whom a fiduciary duty is owed by the board - that’s the objective because we must do everything possible to get the existing loans repaid and prevent any further looting of the club Lai.  Every little helps and I want to help.

As I understand it, the loan was taken from West Bromwich Albion FC Ltd, Ron Gourlay is still a director of the football club & the development company.

Also, RG wasn't appointed until February 2022 & the loans were authorised before then in March & September 2021
As a director, he cannot be accountable for authorisations made before his appointment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 09:47:57 PM
As I understand it, the loan was taken from West Bromwich Albion FC Ltd, Ron Gourlay is still a director of the football club & the development company.

Also, RG wasn't appointed until February 2022 & the loans were authorised before then in March & September 2021
As a director, he cannot be accountable for authorisations made before his appointment.

Ron Gourlay is no longer a director of the company which made the loan, but it’s quite likely that when he found out on being appointed about the loan (already made) he will have been put in a very awkward position as director of having to demand that the loan was repaid in order to recoup the essential funds for the club.  The two directors from February 2022 were Ron Gourlay and Lai’s puppet. And then Gourlay resigned after only being a director for just 5 months.  I suspect we call all join the dots.  If he had taken legal advice he will have had to try to persuade the other director to demand repayment of the loan.  It’s very likely that Ron Gourlay either resigned from that board because he couldn’t get the support of his fellow director, or will have been “asked” to resign by the majority shareholder.  He will have found himself in an impossible position knowing that the funds were needed to strengthen the team and had instead been advanced as a loan.

It is inconceivable that the loans were made in the best interests of the company, and so could not be justified by the board of the company which granted the loans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 28, 2022, 10:25:29 PM
Ron Gourlay is no longer a director of the company which made the loan, but it’s quite likely that when he found out on being appointed about the loan (already made) he will have been put in a very awkward position as director of having to demand that the loan was repaid in order to recoup the essential funds for the club.  The two directors from February 2022 were Ron Gourlay and Lai’s puppet. And then Gourlay resigned after only being a director for just 5 months.  I suspect we call all join the dots.  If he had taken legal advice he will have had to try to persuade the other director to demand repayment of the loan.  It’s very likely that Ron Gourlay either resigned from that board because he couldn’t get the support of his fellow director, or will have been “asked” to resign by the majority shareholder.  He will have found himself in an impossible position knowing that the funds were needed to strengthen the team and had instead been advanced as a loan.

It is inconceivable that the loans were made in the best interests of the company, and so could not be justified by the board of the company which granted the loans.

So he stood down as a director of group, but continued as a director of West Bromwich Albion FC & West Bromwich Albion Development Ltd, both operating companies who stood to lose the most if the loan is not re-paid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 28, 2022, 10:29:43 PM
Ron Gourlay is no longer a director of the company which made the loan, but it’s quite likely that when he found out on being appointed about the loan (already made) he will have been put in a very awkward position as director of having to demand that the loan was repaid in order to recoup the essential funds for the club.  The two directors from February 2022 were Ron Gourlay and Lai’s puppet. And then Gourlay resigned after only being a director for just 5 months.  I suspect we call all join the dots.  If he had taken legal advice he will have had to try to persuade the other director to demand repayment of the loan.  It’s very likely that Ron Gourlay either resigned from that board because he couldn’t get the support of his fellow director, or will have been “asked” to resign by the majority shareholder.  He will have found himself in an impossible position knowing that the funds were needed to strengthen the team and had instead been advanced as a loan.

It is inconceivable that the loans were made in the best interests of the company, and so could not be justified by the board of the company which granted the loans.

The first one to business boy was OB, because he said so. In fact he said it was an ‘arms length’ loan with an attractive return rate. The only problem there was it has not been returned.

They turned my ‘arms length’ loan for a Bugatti Veyron down last week. Strange that as they would have eventually got the money out of me, give or take 50 years!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 10:36:25 PM
So he stood down as a director of group, but continued as a director of West Bromwich Albion FC & West Bromwich Albion Development Ltd, both operating companies who stood to lose the most if the loan is not re-paid.

Those two companies were not the ones that made the loans, so have no capacity to demand repayment.  That issue only arises as a director of the company which actually made the loans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 10:45:03 PM
The first one to business boy was OB, because he said so. In fact he said it was an ‘arms length’ loan with an attractive return rate. The only problem there was it has not been returned.

They turned my ‘arms length’ loan for a Bugatti Veyron down last week. Strange that as they would have eventually got the money out of me, give or take 50 years!

I don’t understand your first paragraph at all.  But in any event, the business of the company was to own a football club, not to make personal loans to non-100% shareholders, regardless of the terms of any loans.   How was it possibly in the best interests of the company to make such a loan?  And then, when the first loan was not repaid on time, to then make a further loan was even more reckless because the risk of default was known to be far higher. 

As a director I would not like to have to justify my actions in making either loan, in the process depriving the business of vital funds necessary to operate properly.  That’s the crux. The 88% shareholder wanted a personal loan and the board should have said no when exercising their fiduciary duty.  There was no upside whatsoever for agreeing to make it.   It’s an absolute dog’s breakfast.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on August 28, 2022, 11:32:11 PM
Fiduciary. Made up word.  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 28, 2022, 11:50:02 PM
Fiduciary. Made up word.  :D

It most certainly is not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on August 29, 2022, 05:10:26 AM
Mr google says
When someone has a fiduciary duty to someone else, the person with the duty must act in a way that will benefit someone else, usually financially. The person who has a fiduciary duty is called the fiduciary, and the person to whom the duty is owed is called the principal or the beneficiary.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 29, 2022, 07:23:46 AM
Mr google says
When someone has a fiduciary duty to someone else, the person with the duty must act in a way that will benefit someone else, usually financially. The person who has a fiduciary duty is called the fiduciary, and the person to whom the duty is owed is called the principal or the beneficiary.

This article from the Corporate Governance Institute (of which I’ve been a member since 1986) is very helpful for those not familiar with the concept.

https://www.thecorporategovernanceinstitute.com/insights/lexicon/what-does-fiduciary-duty-mean/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 29, 2022, 07:58:10 AM
I don’t understand your first paragraph at all.  But in any event, the business of the company was to own a football club, not to make personal loans to non-100% shareholders, regardless of the terms of any loans.   How was it possibly in the best interests of the company to make such a loan?  And then, when the first loan was not repaid on time, to then make a further loan was even more reckless because the risk of default was known to be far higher. 

As a director I would not like to have to justify my actions in making either loan, in the process depriving the business of vital funds necessary to operate properly.  That’s the crux. The 88% shareholder wanted a personal loan and the board should have said no when exercising their fiduciary duty.  There was no upside whatsoever for agreeing to make it.   It’s an absolute dog’s breakfast.

Here is the article regarding the previous chairman’s loan;

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2021/07/21/ex-west-brom-chief-jeremy-peace-breaks-silence-on-loan/

I have no doubt that you have read this, but towards the end of the feature it mentions his interpretation of his commercially attractive ‘on arms length’ loan.

He said that he did not use the loan to buy shares, so the simple question is (and one that would make the question go away) Is ‘what did you do with the money?’
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 29, 2022, 08:31:15 AM
Here is the article regarding the previous chairman’s loan;

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2021/07/21/ex-west-brom-chief-jeremy-peace-breaks-silence-on-loan/

I have no doubt that you have read this, but towards the end of the feature it mentions his interpretation of his commercially attractive ‘on arms length’ loan.

He said that he did not use the loan to buy shares, so the simple question is (and one that would make the question go away) Is ‘what did you do with the money?’

Yes I’m familiar with this.   If it was a case of the loan being made to generate a good rate of interest for the club for the short term on genuinely surplus cash funds, then the board could potentially claim that it was made in the club’s interests.  If these were funds which were actually needed by the club on the other hand (and not subject to Financial Fair Play spending restrictions) then that would be a much harder act fo defend.

If the money was lent for the purpose of Peace buying up shares to take him over 75%, with a view to trying to acquire 100%, then that seems to have been for Peace’s benefit, not for the club’s benefit, although Peace may well have argued that he’d taken the club as far as he could and that it needed a new owner to take it further, and any new owner would be likely to want to buy 100%, and certainly at least 75%, rather than sub-75%, and so the loan was in the club’s best interests.  Not sure I’d buy that argument, but it might be a valid defence.

One failing of Peace was that he never made it financially attractive enough to buy out “those pesky minority shareholders” although with Lai in charge that has turned out to be a blessing in disguise otherwise he’d have carte blanche to rape the club without minority shareholders’ rights and fiduciary duty getting in the way. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 29, 2022, 09:43:44 AM
Yes I’m familiar with this.   If it was a case of the loan being made to generate a good rate of interest for the club for the short term on genuinely surplus cash funds, then the board could potentially claim that it was made in the club’s interests.  If these were funds which were actually needed by the club on the other hand (and not subject to Financial Fair Play spending restrictions) then that would be a much harder act fo defend.

If the money was lent for the purpose of Peace buying up shares to take him over 75%, with a view to trying to acquire 100%, then that seems to have been for Peace’s benefit, not for the club’s benefit, although Peace may well have argued that he’d taken the club as far as he could and that it needed a new owner to take it further, and any new owner would be likely to want to buy 100%, and certainly at least 75%, rather than sub-75%, and so the loan was in the club’s best interests.  Not sure I’d buy that argument, but it might be a valid defence.

One failing of Peace was that he never made it financially attractive enough to buy out “those pesky minority shareholders” although with Lai in charge that has turned out to be a blessing in disguise otherwise he’d have carte blanche to rape the club without minority shareholders’ rights and fiduciary duty getting in the way.

It would be good to hear from S4A in respect of any action they are taking. Whilst they don’t have to tell us, we are all on the same side so I cannot see an issue. I also seem to remember Mr Gourlay mentioning an enquiry so it would be good to receive an update on that too.

If Peace did borrow the money to mop up the remaining shares, has he broken any rules or law? If he hasn’t then the whole issue is a moot point. However, he insists he did not use the money to buy the shares, and he would welcome an investigation into the matter. So this is quite simple, all he has to do is release the banking documentation relating to the loan. I assume it would have been moved as soon as it was paid to the holding company. If he is not prepared to do this and financial impropriety is suspected then a civil enquiry could approach the financial institutions direct. The only caveat there being that they only normally retain banking records for 6 years so we may have run out of time. This of course all depends on whether it is absolutely necessary to prove what happened to the loan, and demonstrating that Peace has told a ‘provable lie’
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on August 29, 2022, 02:37:31 PM
Football has managed to attract the worst in terms of ownership. It's the publicity and notoriety that seems to make them swarm like flies on ****. Not all owners are like this, but it is starting to look like that's all Lai wanted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on August 29, 2022, 03:06:49 PM
Football has managed to attract the worst in terms of ownership. It's the publicity and notoriety that seems to make them swarm like flies on ****. Not all owners are like this, but it is starting to look like that's all Lai wanted.

The worse was Peace by a country mile. He was "one of our own" born and bred in West Bromwich apparently.

Lai is a pot less fool who borrowed to buy us at an inflated price probably not knowing what relegation was let alone that it could happen to us, and thought the annual profits shown in accounts would  continue and easily pay his loan off.

I want him out with a passion and what he is doing by slowly destroying us with siphoning off club  generated money as loans when it could be spent on players like Clarke is criminal imo but none of it would have happened if Peace wasn't such a greedy so and so who only cared about himself.

Hopefully, one day we will get an owner who cares about us rather than their bottom line.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 29, 2022, 03:16:44 PM
The worse was Peace by a country mile. He was "one of our own" born and bred in West Bromwich apparently.

Lai is a pot less fool who borrowed to buy us at an inflated price probably not knowing what relegation was let alone that it could happen to us, and thought the annual profits shown in accounts would  continue and easily pay his loan off.

I want him out with a passion and what he is doing by slowly destroying us with siphoning off club  generated money as loans when it could be spent on players like Clarke is criminal imo but none of it would have happened if Peace wasn't such a greedy so and so who only cared about himself.

Hopefully, one day we will get an owner who cares about us rather than their bottom line.


I can't fully blame Peace. Yes he sold to the highest bidder and that is his right sadly.

Was he cold and callous about the club? Sure he was but that only hurts personally if you ever believed JP was in it for anyone other than himself.

Lai, well as you say he can't get gone quick enough for me.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on August 29, 2022, 04:17:33 PM
JP did much good for Albion, but he did the same as we are getting angry with Lai about. He took money out of the club and defaulted on its repayment. He says he didn't use the £3.75m to pay for the shares he bought but offers no explanation of what he did use the money for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 29, 2022, 04:39:40 PM
JP did much good for Albion, but he did the same as we are getting angry with Lai about. He took money out of the club and defaulted on its repayment. He says he didn't use the £3.75m to pay for the shares he bought but offers no explanation of what he did use the money for.


Be careful, JP didn't default, there is a clause in the loan that says it can be recalled at any time, so Lai could have called it in before he bought JP's shares.
I assume he chose not to, so he would have to pay £3.75 million less for WBA Holdings.
As it stands, that loan is a growing asset on the company balance sheet.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on August 29, 2022, 05:07:03 PM
One of the questions in the S4A list of questions (Qu 14).

The details of the 2014 Loan should be set out, including:

- The contracted dates for repayment

- Details of loan default

- Details of the interest payable. Given that the loan has been in default, it would be most irregular if compound interest is not payable on both the capital and the interest

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 29, 2022, 05:21:55 PM
One of the questions in the S4A list of questions (Qu 14).

The details of the 2014 Loan should be set out, including:

- The contracted dates for repayment

- Details of loan default

- Details of the interest payable. Given that the loan has been in default, it would be most irregular if compound interest is not payable on both the capital and the interest

Yes but Lai took responsibilty for the loan when he bought WBA Holdings from JP.

As far as I am aware, the loan was never called in during JP's tenure, so if it has now, then it's Lai who's defaulted, not JP.

Also, I'm surprised that S4A asked those questions, the answers are in the company accounts.
From recollection, the interest is BoE base rate plus 5%, & it's common knowledge that the loan of £3.75 million is now worth over £5 million, & growing substantially at current interest rates.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on August 29, 2022, 05:34:35 PM
The details of the loan agreement will reveal the contracted dates for repayment, should we ever get to see it. But I cannot believe that it did not have a repayment date included, even if only an instalment, in the two years before the loan was transferred to Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on August 29, 2022, 06:09:21 PM
What does it mean before I get a tee shirt printed up with it on the front?

I don’t really want to walk around with a Chinese takeaway order on me😂

Literally, “Put Out” according to Google Translate  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 29, 2022, 06:50:10 PM
Ebenezer’s loan, was it legal ? Isn’t that one of questions minority share holders have?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on August 29, 2022, 07:40:11 PM
JP did much good for Albion, but he did the same as we are getting angry with Lai about. He took money out of the club and defaulted on its repayment. He says he didn't use the £3.75m to pay for the shares he bought but offers no explanation of what he did use the money for.

Ok I'll bite.

What exactly, other than removing the police box in the smeth an replacing it with seats and the Halfords lane paint job, did Roland do?

Please don't say the training ground, because despite unparalleled levels of income and profit, it is only rented.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 29, 2022, 07:41:51 PM
The details of the loan agreement will reveal the contracted dates for repayment, should we ever get to see it. But I cannot believe that it did not have a repayment date included, even if only an instalment, in the two years before the loan was transferred to Lai.

This is the accounts for year ending 2017

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/B1UR34Ecoyzx66Wt7aMfu7SRKYhmajGMSPSIBXa7iSg/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3CFDOE7VI%2F20220829%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220829T181343Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEKf%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJHMEUCIAp%2FBvWZWhdhK7jRpUedXLKFhrzlb0auA2R7Oi3JOyEWAiEApW8hU8NpD2eJDuDxkoEGUdSTqda%2BEDUi7bqxmJTM46Aq0wQIMBAEGgw0NDkyMjkwMzI4MjIiDEPrXLyaNbig3gdMzSqwBGuI707XFf3ct7NiyMWbhzoLx9ze%2Fp0lx57uCVZzfjJC%2F5xtnqa8YH7uhzz1UubcNtUJG3d1CUuBxXK9RFaoxd6MRfC37IwaAWauEA2%2Ffd93aKG2JtFTy1Gmc8AuMiesdoX46JC61gChavmHISolTapn%2FY9LZ%2BHM36KpnrJu3M%2BNMcdB%2FGhPmXmUYYCjDRmkbr2Kq9LGtRFLCmfggOqdy3oQ7EkKe9ebjwmi2dRdHOxnczpoKL40lQi5KjfqoGTyVGJHfXe5f9nN5%2Ftvpi4zbcS6U8bzLaSG6Sv%2Ft9uW6uXlx8TUt%2F1AA7dNGjghqLZKrI1Q2281GHj1Z4NVhtr1q2UuCmXO9PJ8iqQvP3a8baFViy7Od88jkBmxoJJxJC2v5ovwmzHkqv1%2FSMDKD1m8q75rAwgMFKYWMsfY556fZ3DB12Zlpi1SaUX6jhNfGu%2BWkAWHJDHbA7f%2BD0E%2FYO4wpM8IBaNl34Twjxu4x4y0doDNs278PkujVy9%2FiYT9mTJRPmHslqx1K2dDQbzk3V6oUnYFvP84l6qmLlIbVCss7RrXkv072c22%2FS%2FOlvN2422SYRgMXqHWVuF2KbbP10GvncyCq71bdHQMo0hsQ1H38e1tFPNc3Xzc5Bj1Fk2vz2p%2FZdGs81uB8Gxl1FP0mVzDgOA9mdKOFMJPg230HrdgvsxHSHJ9c1HnnjN3WPDnsshjFgyLjivBq%2F0F75R4vRGI1FY%2FbyLpofE7H1eDZZ1hR8b3ML2Zs5gGOqkBz1T0sM0GKc1LC%2BQ9pB5tQHl10UBiVgq3DfgLViZ5ydKJhbLVkOc834QALkGlyOZd4II3JIVYfZzq0AsXxMSVWu4pAVLhDv37nHEmP5TWosA77tfRKTObFCdjfVALrcvkk%2BQFaAyeV6ba%2Bqh6iNekW%2B48r3CuZoTVewRi9IlpiegYkClwmPtL6eHZ1wlwB9vUQ6sUemo5%2FLNx28fPf6%2BfymQJvP0Ma88WTg%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22companies_house_document.pdf%22&X-Amz-Signature=944fdddd4f3095ac6ff72b11743305f1b44bbb11a6c0b531776b92ebcfdc6009 (https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/B1UR34Ecoyzx66Wt7aMfu7SRKYhmajGMSPSIBXa7iSg/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3CFDOE7VI%2F20220829%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20220829T181343Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEKf%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJHMEUCIAp%2FBvWZWhdhK7jRpUedXLKFhrzlb0auA2R7Oi3JOyEWAiEApW8hU8NpD2eJDuDxkoEGUdSTqda%2BEDUi7bqxmJTM46Aq0wQIMBAEGgw0NDkyMjkwMzI4MjIiDEPrXLyaNbig3gdMzSqwBGuI707XFf3ct7NiyMWbhzoLx9ze%2Fp0lx57uCVZzfjJC%2F5xtnqa8YH7uhzz1UubcNtUJG3d1CUuBxXK9RFaoxd6MRfC37IwaAWauEA2%2Ffd93aKG2JtFTy1Gmc8AuMiesdoX46JC61gChavmHISolTapn%2FY9LZ%2BHM36KpnrJu3M%2BNMcdB%2FGhPmXmUYYCjDRmkbr2Kq9LGtRFLCmfggOqdy3oQ7EkKe9ebjwmi2dRdHOxnczpoKL40lQi5KjfqoGTyVGJHfXe5f9nN5%2Ftvpi4zbcS6U8bzLaSG6Sv%2Ft9uW6uXlx8TUt%2F1AA7dNGjghqLZKrI1Q2281GHj1Z4NVhtr1q2UuCmXO9PJ8iqQvP3a8baFViy7Od88jkBmxoJJxJC2v5ovwmzHkqv1%2FSMDKD1m8q75rAwgMFKYWMsfY556fZ3DB12Zlpi1SaUX6jhNfGu%2BWkAWHJDHbA7f%2BD0E%2FYO4wpM8IBaNl34Twjxu4x4y0doDNs278PkujVy9%2FiYT9mTJRPmHslqx1K2dDQbzk3V6oUnYFvP84l6qmLlIbVCss7RrXkv072c22%2FS%2FOlvN2422SYRgMXqHWVuF2KbbP10GvncyCq71bdHQMo0hsQ1H38e1tFPNc3Xzc5Bj1Fk2vz2p%2FZdGs81uB8Gxl1FP0mVzDgOA9mdKOFMJPg230HrdgvsxHSHJ9c1HnnjN3WPDnsshjFgyLjivBq%2F0F75R4vRGI1FY%2FbyLpofE7H1eDZZ1hR8b3ML2Zs5gGOqkBz1T0sM0GKc1LC%2BQ9pB5tQHl10UBiVgq3DfgLViZ5ydKJhbLVkOc834QALkGlyOZd4II3JIVYfZzq0AsXxMSVWu4pAVLhDv37nHEmP5TWosA77tfRKTObFCdjfVALrcvkk%2BQFaAyeV6ba%2Bqh6iNekW%2B48r3CuZoTVewRi9IlpiegYkClwmPtL6eHZ1wlwB9vUQ6sUemo5%2FLNx28fPf6%2BfymQJvP0Ma88WTg%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22companies_house_document.pdf%22&X-Amz-Signature=944fdddd4f3095ac6ff72b11743305f1b44bbb11a6c0b531776b92ebcfdc6009)



There is an explanation for the £3.7 million outstanding to group from group undertakings on page 31
It won't let me copy & paste, but it's saying that the loan is unsecured, payable on demand & attracts interest at BoE base rate plus 5%.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 29, 2022, 10:55:45 PM
Literally, “Put Out” according to Google Translate  ;D

Thanks Dave ;), I will put the tee shirt on hold until I have the definitive answer 

Does anyone have the right wording?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 30, 2022, 09:37:57 AM
Thanks Dave ;), I will put the tee shirt on hold until I have the definitive answer 

Does anyone have the right wording?
It says

“It’s yow fault we day gerra penulty agenst uddersfayuld ay it”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 30, 2022, 09:56:11 AM
Thanks Dave ;), I will put the tee shirt on hold until I have the definitive answer 

Does anyone have the right wording?

if you are wanting 'get out' rather than 'put out'. Babelfish has it as 出去
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: koren on August 30, 2022, 02:53:27 PM
Thanks Dave ;), I will put the tee shirt on hold until I have the definitive answer 

Does anyone have the right wording?
'Get out' = 滚出去
"Get out of our club" = 滚出我们的俱乐部
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 30, 2022, 02:58:55 PM
'Get out' = 滚出去
"Get out of our club" = 滚出我们的俱乐部

Marvellous, thank you Koren👍
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ttree30 on August 30, 2022, 06:04:32 PM
It would be interesting to know on what terms the owner would consider selling.

He has next to no chance of ever recovering his £200m - what an extraordinary fortune Jeremy Peace has made from his involvement with the club.

So what would he accept to cut his losses? And who would be interested in buying us?

Our finances, playing assets, market value and profile have been progressively run down such that we are now the mid-table Championship club Peace once said we really were.

If we decline further - and that is a real possibility - he will lose even more. So what would it take and is there anyone who would take us on?

PS There are even worse owners than this one, hard though it may be to believe. We would have to hope for a Paul Thompson-type (who transformed the club) rather than, say, a Mel Morris.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on September 01, 2022, 04:11:26 PM
Ok so we've removed some posts calling Lai a parasite and a leach.

We're very careful as a mod team to remove potentially defamatory comments from the board, partly to protect the board itself, but also to protect, you, our members.

If a third party were to claim that a member has been defamatory, then we are legally-bound to hand over their details so that member can be taken to court, and that is not something we want to have to do.

This forum is, for the most part, viewable to the public, so you never know who could be reading your posts. Please bear that in mind.

We're not trying to censor criticism, it is genuinely coming from a place of trying to protect our members.

Thanks

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on September 01, 2022, 04:28:02 PM
It would be interesting to know on what terms the owner would consider selling.

He has next to no chance of ever recovering his £200m - what an extraordinary fortune Jeremy Peace has made from his involvement with the club.

So what would he accept to cut his losses? And who would be interested in buying us?

Our finances, playing assets, market value and profile have been progressively run down such that we are now the mid-table Championship club Peace once said we really were.

If we decline further - and that is a real possibility - he will lose even more. So what would it take and is there anyone who would take us on?

PS There are even worse owners than this one, hard though it may be to believe. We would have to hope for a Paul Thompson-type (who transformed the club) rather than, say, a Mel Morris.

Lai has been more incompetent than anything. He at least understands he doesn't know anything about football so has left it to football men to run the club. But the people he's chose to do that have largely been so outdated in their methods and approach that the club is doing basically the opposite of what every innovative, ambitious club is trying to do.

I do worry though what will happen as we fall further away from the premier league. With his investment dwindling, the economy in China taking a hit and his businesses continuing to suffer, you do wonder what might happen in desperation.

If we were to really chart it all, its Peace who started most the decline. It's Peace who chose some terrible directors of football (Burton in particularly was a terrible choice - headhunting Irvine - how things might have ended differently with a better selection that season), its Peace who recommended Williams as chairman who was long since outdated, its Peace who took the initial money out the club that remains unpaid, its Peace who dismantled the scouting and recruitment network to appease Pulis, its Peace who valued short term results of Pulis over the long term harm it would cause to the team and club.....

Peace was the driver of most the clubs decline in his desperation to sell the club. He did work towards a good structure in place at one point but in his last few years he tore it all down, hoping that Pulis could keep us in the premier till we were sold and then he would duck away. Lai clearly does not have the know how or will to put things back together again. The guy merely bought the club when it was en vogue in China to buy premier league clubs, but then got hit by a double whammy of a surprise relegation (that squad should never, ever have got relegated) and China's higher ups suddenly changing vision and becoming much more inward looking for football.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on September 01, 2022, 04:47:50 PM
Ok so we've removed some posts calling Lai a parasite and a leach.

Are posts saying "In my opinion Mr X is a left handed pimple squeezing hamster" (or whatever) okay? That is, someone stating their opinion rather than stating it as fact? I'm asking for a fiend. Friend! I meant friend!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on September 01, 2022, 04:55:00 PM
Unless we get a new owner we are doomed to mid table mediocrity at best and disaster laden demotion at worst. You can kiss goodbye any faint hopes of the Premier league now for years, even if by a miracle we do get promoted , with this owner t would be a pointless exercise with no investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on September 01, 2022, 04:58:55 PM
Unless we get a new owner we are doomed to mid table mediocrity at best and disaster laden demotion at worst. You can kiss goodbye any faint hopes of the Premier league now for years, even if by a miracle we do get promoted , with this owner t would be a pointless exercise with no investment.

Agree. I honestly think we'll end up going down in the next 5 seasons or so. The decline on the pitch has been visible in the past 5 seasons so why would it level off or get better? Clearly no money is being spent from here on out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 01, 2022, 05:18:31 PM
Lai has been more incompetent than anything. He at least understands he doesn't know anything about football so has left it to football men to run the club. But the people he's chose to do that have largely been so outdated in their methods and approach that the club is doing basically the opposite of what every innovative, ambitious club is trying to do.

I do worry though what will happen as we fall further away from the premier league. With his investment dwindling, the economy in China taking a hit and his businesses continuing to suffer, you do wonder what might happen in desperation.

If we were to really chart it all, its Peace who started most the decline. It's Peace who chose some terrible directors of football (Burton in particularly was a terrible choice - headhunting Irvine - how things might have ended differently with a better selection that season), its Peace who recommended Williams as chairman who was long since outdated, its Peace who took the initial money out the club that remains unpaid, its Peace who dismantled the scouting and recruitment network to appease Pulis, its Peace who valued short term results of Pulis over the long term harm it would cause to the team and club.....

Peace was the driver of most the clubs decline in his desperation to sell the club. He did work towards a good structure in place at one point but in his last few years he tore it all down, hoping that Pulis could keep us in the premier till we were sold and then he would duck away. Lai clearly does not have the know how or will to put things back together again. The guy merely bought the club when it was en vogue in China to buy premier league clubs, but then got hit by a double whammy of a surprise relegation (that squad should never, ever have got relegated) and China's higher ups suddenly changing vision and becoming much more inward looking for football.
Never has a nail been hit on the head so perfectly. It will take a miracle for us to get out of this mess. Great post!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 01, 2022, 11:10:32 PM
People have questioned how we create a £5m profit for lai to pay dividends and use that to get the loan back. Perhaps this is how. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on September 01, 2022, 11:15:35 PM
When will the fans turn on Lai? LEAGUE ONE? :
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on September 01, 2022, 11:16:27 PM
When will the fans turn on Lai? LEAGUE ONE? :

The majority won’t. They are too passive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 01, 2022, 11:16:56 PM
When will the fans turn on Lai? LEAGUE ONE? :


Some will start cheering for him then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on September 01, 2022, 11:18:23 PM

Some will start cheering for him then.

I can think of a few on here who would. Talk about apathy and stupidity.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 01, 2022, 11:20:20 PM
I can think of a few on here who would. Talk about apathy and stupidity.


Most of them when i asked them said they wanted to experience new away grounds and they've seen WBA when they were good in the 60-1985. Selfish as you like
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on September 02, 2022, 06:03:37 AM
Can we now get a proper protest going against this fraud & the board, we are dropping like a stone under his stewardship. He’s not got a single decision right since stepping into the football club and is now using it as a bank to prop his failing businesses up.

We sure as hell aren’t going up this year so we need to start making it uncomfortable for him & the board at home games this year like Blues did.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pelada on September 02, 2022, 07:26:58 AM
The time has come. Get this fraud out of this football club, for the sake of its future.

The final straw has broken.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on September 02, 2022, 07:52:11 AM
I wonder if the 1.5 mill from Robbo's sale will go towards another loan for our 'billionaire' owner. And to think some moaned about JP
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on September 02, 2022, 07:55:08 AM
I suppose he could take out another loan this January to pay back his previous loan that he promised to pay back in January... ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 02, 2022, 07:57:46 AM
I wonder if the 1.5 mill from Robbo's sale will go towards another loan for our 'billionaire' owner. And to think some moaned about JP

With good reason, Dan’s post yesterday was a great analogy of the past 20 years; it all started with Peace, the ‘lifelong Albion fan’
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AidantheBaggies on September 02, 2022, 07:59:23 AM
With good reason, Dan’s post yesterday was a great analogy of the past 20 years; it all started with Peace, the ‘lifelong Albion fan’

Indeed, but the current problem is Mr. Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on September 02, 2022, 09:05:05 AM
The club is sinking with Lai as owner and his succession of poor appointments/ lack of interest/ strategy etc.

Lai, his ownership and appointments need to be the focus of fans frustration,  not the players, team or Bruce (who is far from a good appointment but is not the real problem for me). The players and Bruce have of course benefitted from negligent management so who can blame them for staying on well paid contracts they couldn't get elsewhere!

LAI OUT
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 02, 2022, 09:06:32 AM
You can bet your bottom dollar that the grass won’t be greener.

We’re a carbon copy of the Blues.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on September 02, 2022, 09:07:15 AM
The club is sinking with Lai as owner and his succession of poor appointments/ lack of interest/ strategy etc.

Lai, his ownership and appointments need to be the focus of fans frustration,  not the players, team or Bruce (who is far from a good appointment but is not the real problem for me). The players and Bruce have of course benefitted from negligent management so who can blame them for staying on well paid contracts they couldn't get elsewhere!

LAI OUT

This, pretty much.

If fans want to vent their anger they need to vent it at the real problem.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on September 02, 2022, 09:08:16 AM
You can bet your bottom dollar that the grass won’t be greener.

We’re a carbon copy of the Blues.

This is exactly where we are heading, they somehow have stayed in the championship but I don’t think we’ll be as lucky. Odds on us both dropping this year?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 02, 2022, 09:12:01 AM
This is exactly where we are heading, they somehow have stayed in the championship but I don’t think we’ll be as lucky. Odds on us both dropping this year?

I don’t think we’ll go down.

We’re going to be solid in mid table largely due to the three additions of Yokuslu, Swift, Wallace and the resurgence of Diangana.

Without them we’d be struggling!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 02, 2022, 09:18:18 AM
I don’t think we’ll go down.

We’re going to be solid in mid table largely due to the three additions of Yokuslu, Swift, Wallace and the resurgence of Diangana.

Without them we’d be struggling!

Not this year Liam, but with no parachute money next year the flex down will only get worse.

At this moment I do not think we will be bothering the Premier League next year or thereafter. However, in the unlikely event that we do, do you think there is a strategy in place regarding the players required etc? Not a chance, their long term plan extends to Friday next week, no further.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on September 02, 2022, 09:18:29 AM
I don’t think we’ll go down.

We’re going to be solid in mid table largely due to the three additions of Yokuslu, Swift, Wallace and the resurgence of Diangana.

Without them we’d be struggling!

I hope you’re right.

I notice the club are as silent as can be this morning.

I bet they’re bricking it there’s a game tonight and on TV.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: jamesh_91 on September 02, 2022, 09:19:03 AM
I don’t think we’ll go down.

We’re going to be solid in mid table largely due to the three additions of Yokuslu, Swift, Wallace and the resurgence of Diangana.

Without them we’d be struggling!

We should still be challenging for play offs in all honesty. Problem is we are just one/two injuries away from capitulation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on September 02, 2022, 09:45:50 AM
Lai Guochuan has absolutely no idea about running a football club and no grasp of its parts other than there's a couple of teams of footballers.  This is why he has chosen a CEO and manager whose only attributes are that they have experience albeit with no recent success. 

Manager and CEO are from a previous football era and have no grasp on modern techniques, tactics and development.  Surely even they would have realised that whatever vision the recruiting team have is tunnel vision and hardly stretches beyond the English borders

Gourlay does have a grasp of company law and they is why he has resigned as a director.  That speaks volumes for Guochuan's intentions.

I'm afraid the best we can hope for is that S4A are vigilant and stop Guochuan's raids as far as they can and that - at some point - he caps his losses and sells up.  Might his next moves be to give up renting the training facility and try to share with a neighbouring club and to close the academy?

Until he goes it's up to us to support the club as if it were an ailing child until Lai is cast out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on September 02, 2022, 09:58:41 AM
Lai Guochuan has absolutely no idea about running a football club and no grasp of its parts other than there's a couple of teams of footballers.  This is why he has chosen a CEO and manager whose only attributes are that they have experience albeit with no recent success. 

Manager and CEO are from a previous football era and have no grasp on modern techniques, tactics and development.  Surely even they would have realised that whatever vision the recruiting team have is tunnel vision and hardly stretches beyond the English borders

Gourlay does have a grasp of company law and they is why he has resigned as a director.  That speaks volumes for Guochuan's intentions.

I'm afraid the best we can hope for is that S4A are vigilant and stop Guochuan's raids as far as they can and that - at some point - he caps his losses and sells up.  Might his next moves be to give up renting the training facility and try to share with a neighbouring club and to close the academy?

Until he goes it's up to us to support the club as if it were an ailing child until Lai is cast out.

I agree with you, this won't end well for the club or Lai actually considering he'll make a huge loss of his 'investment'. The club is moving into damage limitation territory and we as fans need to support the club to ensure this doesn't become far worse.

How do we support the club though?

I'm a believer that Lai will hang around for years like the Blackburn owners, stinking the club out, pinching whatever pennies he can unless we fans are more vocal - to make it clear he/ they're not wanted at our club? I'm not saying it will necessarily have a direct effect in the short term but I think this is the best way to show long support for the club long term and to try to hasten Lai sells and takes the likes of Gourlay with him.

The club desperately needs to start afresh.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: staticboy on September 02, 2022, 10:08:51 AM
I believe by the end of the season if we do not get promoted then I can see Lai, selling all of our best players taking that money and then doing a runner.  It’s obvious we are not going to spend much this season and will want to save as much cash before selling up.

That’s where I think the Mowatt wages, Robinson fee and wages will go.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on September 02, 2022, 10:14:52 AM
It's only going to get worse I fear. As others have said we will sell as much as we can in terms of players and assets as no doubt Lai is struggling with his businesses big time.

Loans will get written off/we will never see the money owed and he will eventually sell but may take years.

Were enetering a dark period of WBA FC.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on September 02, 2022, 10:20:29 AM
Is Lai a front man for Fosun? Perhaps we are really run by Wolves who are enjoying a good laugh at our expense? 😃
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on September 02, 2022, 10:22:22 AM
The match day post on Facebook has gone down well.

Pelters
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KYA on September 02, 2022, 10:23:43 AM
I believe by the end of the season if we do not get promoted then I can see Lai, selling all of our best players taking that money and then doing a runner.  It’s obvious we are not going to spend much this season and will want to save as much cash before selling up.

That’s where I think the Mowatt wages, Robinson fee and wages will go.
I fear you are right, those within the club must do all they can to prevent this and the fans need to act be it boycotts of matches or whatever the very existance of this club is on the line.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ttree30 on September 02, 2022, 10:37:20 AM
I believe by the end of the season if we do not get promoted then I can see Lai, selling all of our best players taking that money and then doing a runner.  It’s obvious we are not going to spend much this season and will want to save as much cash before selling up.

That’s where I think the Mowatt wages, Robinson fee and wages will go.

IF we don’t get promoted? 😆😆

Sorry - just the way I’m feeling.

I fear you’re right, but we may need to be thinking a bit more about whether we stay out of League One.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: staticboy on September 02, 2022, 10:40:06 AM
Haha - I must admit, when I was typing that about promotion it felt wrong.

Personally, I don’t think we need to worry about Div One for this season, but if we carry on this downward spiral, it will be inevitable.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on September 02, 2022, 10:47:39 AM
When we appointed Bruce, and things seemed to get even worse the penny finally dropped for me about where this club of ours was going.  Despite the good signings during the summer which gave a glimmer of hope, all I see for us, is League 1 within two seasons.  I had already decided at the start of the season that the club would not see another penny from me, nor would Sky who have destroyed football.  The shockingly bad window has shown me that we are finished, we will never be where we once were, nor will we see success again.  Peace was wrong, being a mid-table championship club is the very best we can hope for now, and that is going to be difficult to achieve once we go down and completely implode.

Farewell my Albion, I have loved (and sometimes hated) you for 50 years, but that's me done.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: staticboy on September 02, 2022, 10:55:32 AM
Also just seen the spend of the summer window. We are a million miles away from these kind of clubs.

Chelsea of £278m
Man U £227m
West Ham £179m
Tottenham £172m
Notts Forest £157m

Can I say that again Notts Forest who were with us last season have bought 21 players (which is ridiculous by the way) for £157m

I would love to see their scouting setup.  Unless they just Edit, Select All and Buy!

Even by the smallest miracle we make the play-offs (or should we now call them ‘The Play-If’s’.  We will never be able to compete with that kind of spending. Lai will want to line his pocket first, secondly he wil want to ensure his other businesses will be ok.

I think we are years away from this being sorted out properly unless a Sugar Daddy comes in and pays over the odds to save the day.

#weneedadisneyending
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on September 02, 2022, 10:58:49 AM
I love the optimism in thinking the farthest we might fall is League 1.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 02, 2022, 11:00:04 AM
We should still be challenging for play offs in all honesty. Problem is we are just one/two injuries away from capitulation.

Had we got a forward then I’d be inclined to agree regarding the play offs.

Unfortunately we’re just going to draw far too many games for us to mount any form of challenge
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 02, 2022, 03:36:55 PM
Just remember Jeremy Peace sold the club to Lai after telling the fans that a) he had vetted all the proposed buyers carefully to ensure the future of the club was in good hands and b) that Lai had the resources to take the club forwards further than Peace.

Nobody every thought JP was gullible or naive, he wasn't. He was calculating and ruthless for his own bottom line, at the expense of the future of the club. I hold him in contempt and we were fed complete pork pies.

Off he shovelled to his tax haven in Jersey without even having the decency to square up the loan he had placed on the club.

Now, what do we have, Lai with the resources of a local market trader who cannot be trusted.

To add insult to injury, this was against the backdrop of Steve Morgan selling Wolves at a discount (whilst still exiting with a lot of cash) to get Fosun on board, and the rest is history.

Contrast Morgan's approach to Jeremy Peace determination to get 110% for himself and ask yourself which one cared about their clubs and fanbase?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on September 02, 2022, 03:46:18 PM
Just remember Jeremy Peace sold the club to Lai after telling the fans that a) he had vetted all the proposed buyers carefully to ensure the future of the club was in good hands and b) that Lai had the resources to take the club forwards further than Peace.

Nobody every thought JP was gullible or naive, he wasn't. He was calculating and ruthless for his own bottom line, at the expense of the future of the club. I hold him in contempt and we were fed complete pork pies.

Off he shovelled to his tax haven in Jersey without even having the decency to square up the loan he had placed on the club.

Now, what do we have, Lai with the resources of a local market trader who cannot be trusted.

To add insult to injury, this was against the backdrop of Steve Morgan selling Wolves at a discount (whilst still exiting with a lot of cash) to get Fosun on board, and the rest is history.

Contrast Morgan's approach to Jeremy Peace determination to get 110% for himself and ask yourself which one cared about their clubs and fanbase?

The fact he took a personal loan from the club in the first place, yet alone never paying it back was obvious he never cared. That alongside paying himself extremely generously to be chairman. He did extremely well out of that. He sold the club for nearly 100% profit so the least he could have done was paid back the loan.

Really the one good thing he did was identifying the club needed a director of football and recruiting Ashworth, his decisions before and after that were largely awful. It's also quite galling that his mentality that doing too well was also bad for the club bled through the club - not wanting to do too well in the league or cup in case it risked Europe and the extra resources that would require. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 02, 2022, 04:31:38 PM
The fact he took a personal loan from the club in the first place, yet alone never paying it back was obvious he never cared. That alongside paying himself extremely generously to be chairman. He did extremely well out of that. He sold the club for nearly 100% profit so the least he could have done was paid back the loan.

Really the one good thing he did was identifying the club needed a director of football and recruiting Ashworth, his decisions before and after that were largely awful. It's also quite galling that his mentality that doing too well was also bad for the club bled through the club - not wanting to do too well in the league or cup in case it risked Europe and the extra resources that would require.

While I agree with most of your comments Dan, I think I take issue with the bits in bold.

First of all, the valuation of the football club by S4A at the time of the sale was around £39 million, so if the reported sale price is correct JP would have made around 350% profit.

I don't know why JP took the £3.7 million loan out of the football club, but I find it difficult to believe that he would have been able to impose the loan onto Lai.
I can only assume that Lai accepted the loan in lieu of a £3.7 million reduction in the selling/buying price of WBA Holdings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on September 02, 2022, 05:10:30 PM
No doubt the Robinson fee will be given to Lai as loan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on September 02, 2022, 10:46:11 PM
Well I don't know much about what has happened over the last few hours other than a Horrid window What I gathered was Paper Work hadn't been filed. But I do know if say Brucey is gone is in two games that is another Manager and no doubt board seen of under Lai this time it wouldn't really be the players or Bruce to Blaim but Lai himself who due to his inept ways is ruining the Club my dad started following in 92 the end of the Dark Days beating Port Vale he went to that game under Ardiles. That is probably why he followed Albion might I ny on 30 years later start watching us enter our dark days for then 40 years later watch us at Wembley beat Swindon say to secure promotion back to League 1 or Championship and then telling my children about that. If Lai at careful Barbara who makes the Tea, Sharon and Lucy who work at reception. Kevin and Dave the Ground Staff all made up names, Jeff the Kit Man and Abbey and Jack who are in charge of the Club Shop could all lose there jobs the Shrine could fall into disrepair the agreements we have with Sandwell Council who thank God saved the Shrine might fall through and we might start calling of matches because we can't pay security this and Blues could be a decent Mid Table Premier League. Lai if you have any decency leave
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on September 03, 2022, 06:42:19 AM
Just seen footage from the game of stewards forcefully removing the banner about Lai being the one constant despite constant changes of management, CEO etc. It seems Lai wants to bring a bit of Chinese style "democracy" to the loyal fans at the club.

Remember this, Remember the disregard this club really holds it fans in. Make sure you don't stop protesting. As for Gourlay,  now is the time to come good on your promises to be more open with the fans. Disgraceful scenes after a disgraceful window.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DudleyBaggieFan on September 03, 2022, 06:59:29 AM
Our club will never be our club until he goes. He’s ruining our beloved Albion, treating it as a money making scheme without considering the fans that make West Bromwich Albion what it is. Do us all a favour, sell up and move on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on September 03, 2022, 08:40:47 AM
Just seen footage from the game of stewards forcefully removing the banner about Lai being the one constant despite constant changes of management, CEO etc. It seems Lai wants to bring a bit of Chinese style "democracy" to the loyal fans at the club.

...

I'm not sure but the stadium is not a public space but property owned by Guochuan and Co.  Therefore he can control the behaviour of people on that land.  Protestors could glue themselves to seats I suppose or just be slicker about unfurling banners in front of the cameras.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on September 03, 2022, 08:54:42 AM
I'm not sure but the stadium is not a public space but property owned by Guochuan and Co.  Therefore he can control the behaviour of people on that land.  Protestors could glue themselves to seats I suppose or just be slicker about unfurling banners in front of the cameras.
It might be owned by him or his company but I doubt he’ll be visiting any time soon. His reception would be incredibly hostile. Hopefully he will get the message that he is not welcome at The Hawthorns!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Smethwickender93 on September 03, 2022, 08:56:37 AM
Apologies if it's been mentioned elsewhere but did anyone go the vine before the game yesterday to discuss how to get Lai out of our club?!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on September 03, 2022, 08:59:37 AM
I'm not sure but the stadium is not a public space but property owned by Guochuan and Co.  Therefore he can control the behaviour of people on that land.  Protestors could glue themselves to seats I suppose or just be slicker about unfurling banners in front of the cameras.

I couldn't give a s**** who's name is on the door really NJS, the football club, in one form or another, will be there long after Lai has slipped away. This isn't a house or a business, it's a football club at the heart of a community. Without the fans, the club dies. If the fans all left en masses and formed WBA 2022 FC, then WBA would become redundant. The club would do well to remember that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 03, 2022, 09:00:47 AM
I'm not sure but the stadium is not a public space but property owned by Guochuan and Co.  Therefore he can control the behaviour of people on that land.  Protestors could glue themselves to seats I suppose or just be slicker about unfurling banners in front of the cameras.

According to Lepkowski, it's a fire safety issue, banners have to be approved.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on September 03, 2022, 09:08:44 AM
According to Lepkowski, it's a fire safety issue, banners have to be approved.

I believe that banners that are left in the ground ( those in the Halfords Lane / West Stand ) have to have a fire safety certificate but banners just bought to the game do not need one.

Look at the away section of the Smethwick, I dont think the away fans think of fire safety certs when they bring their banners.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on September 03, 2022, 09:37:12 AM
I'm not sure but the stadium is not a public space but property owned by Guochuan and Co.  Therefore he can control the behaviour of people on that land.  Protestors could glue themselves to seats I suppose or just be slicker about unfurling banners in front of the cameras.
Didn't Sandwell Council make it a Community Asset if so doesn't that mean it is owned by the Public in this Case Albion Fans
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on September 03, 2022, 01:31:12 PM
I didn’t go last night but wondering if Lai and the board got any pellets?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on September 03, 2022, 01:45:43 PM
I didn’t go last night but wondering if Lai and the board got any pellets?

I posted this on the After Match thread

At the end of the game, some fans unfurled banners against Lai and stewards were quickly on the scene to confiscate them saying no banners against the board are allowed, allegedly.

I wonder who gave that instruction to the stewards?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on September 03, 2022, 02:02:33 PM
As a sign of solidarity on this forum against our Chinese owner, could I suggest members include, in their signature, the following:

赖国传, 滚出我们的俱乐部 (Lai Guochuan, get out of our club)

As firstly Skyclad99 (aka Clive) and then Albionic have done 👍
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ashn on September 03, 2022, 02:16:43 PM
If the aim is to sell the club then he wants promotion to maximise the price. I suspect he was less pleased than the majority here. He will be asking a few questions!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 03, 2022, 02:30:55 PM
As a sign of solidarity on this forum against our Chinese owner, could I suggest members include, in their signature, the following:

赖国传, 滚出我们的俱乐部 (Lai Guochuan, get out of our club)

As firstly Skyclad99 (aka Clive) and then Albionic have done 👍

Sorry but as a forum we are straight down the middle, people can put what they want individually (within the forum rules) but it will not be pushed either way by us as we are just a place for discussion and we ask that it is not pushed by others so further posts such as this will be removed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 03, 2022, 02:54:29 PM
As a sign of solidarity on this forum against our Chinese owner, could I suggest members include, in their signature, the following:

赖国传, 滚出我们的俱乐部 (Lai Guochuan, get out of our club)

As firstly Skyclad99 (aka Clive) and then Albionic have done 👍

Thanks for the name check Dave😂

It’s down to folk taking the initiative really, it’s there if you want to use it. I will explore getting a tee shirt print with it on next week.

I will say that I find it strange that we cannot 
Be encouraged to express our collective dislike of this bloke, but we are happy to discuss VPNs for illegal streams...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 03, 2022, 03:07:05 PM
Thanks for the name check Dave😂

It’s down to folk taking the initiative really, it’s there if you want to use it. I will explore getting a tee shirt print with it on next week.

I will say that I find it strange that we cannot 
Be encouraged to express our collective dislike of this bloke, but we are happy to discuss VPNs for illegal streams...

The forum is a place for discussion so we avoid any conflict, simple as that. We also do not allow the discussion of streams on the forum for example.

The vpn discussion is in an area of the forum which is restricted access so hardly available to everyone with prying eyes so not comparable at all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 03, 2022, 03:25:33 PM
entirely for my own benefit, stress i would not encourage anyone else to do this

https://www.mypersonalisedclothing.com/index.php?route=shirttools/designer&product_id=386
£16.50

dead simple to do,  cut and paste text

i did try to attach but files too large  :(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on September 03, 2022, 06:46:05 PM
Didn't Sandwell Council make it a Community Asset if so doesn't that mean it is owned by the Public in this Case Albion Fans

It might be an Asset of Community Value but its ownership has not changed.  It just means that there will be more scrutiny as to what is done with it.  That makes it a little less attractive for anyone thinking of buying it off Guochuan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 03, 2022, 07:43:53 PM
It might be an Asset of Community Value but its ownership has not changed.  It just means that there will be more scrutiny as to what is done with it.  That makes it a little less attractive for anyone thinking of buying it off Guochuan.

I'm not sure it is an asset of community value yet, it's just a proposal at the moment isn't it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 04, 2022, 09:06:20 AM
Didn't Sandwell Council make it a Community Asset if so doesn't that mean it is owned by the Public in this Case Albion Fans

Nope - there’s long drawn out process to go through before it’s even made an asset.

It also doesn’t give ownership rights to the public or the supporters.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 04, 2022, 10:02:04 AM
Nope - there’s long drawn out process to go through before it’s even made an asset.

It also doesn’t give ownership rights to the public or the supporters.

I'm not sure that there's an argument for community interest purely as a football stadium. There are plenty of other football clubs that have moved their stadia to other locations.

Where there could be an argument, is the community work done by the Albion Foundation. I think the owner would have to demonstrate provision for that within a community interest remit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 04, 2022, 10:19:59 AM
I'm not sure that there's an argument for community interest purely as a football stadium. There are plenty of other football clubs that have moved their stadia to other locations.

Where there could be an argument, is the community work done by the Albion Foundation. I think the owner would have to demonstrate provision for that within a community interest remit.

The two are not really comparable as the foundation is ran outside of the football ground and I believe is based across the road. The issue is the ground and that does provide community value.

Should permission be granted by SandwellCouncil then it means that either the Council or the clubs supporters will have the first opportunity to buy the ground should Lai wish to make a quick sale.

And I doubt supporters could get together the level of funding required so I’m not sure it will work.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on September 04, 2022, 12:08:34 PM
Purchase is not the point as an ACV, it would make it difficult - not impossible - for Guochuan, or any one whom he sold it on to, to  get planning permission to change its use - say, to a housing development.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on September 04, 2022, 10:59:26 PM
Unsurprising that our stewards dispossessed those with banners the other night, but presumably there's nothing to stop them being displayed at away games.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 05, 2022, 09:27:40 AM
Unsurprising that our stewards dispossessed those with banners the other night, but presumably there's nothing to stop them being displayed at away games.

Winter's on the way. There's absolutely nothing to stop individuals getting personalised hats, scarves and or snoods etc. They probably wouldn't cost too much. Only takes two short words (the second one being 'out') or a three letter abbreviation (the first one being F the last one being L). Just saying........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 05, 2022, 09:31:23 AM
Surely everyone could just buy 'Lai out' t shirts. Probably get them printed for a tenner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 05, 2022, 09:41:17 AM
Surely everyone could just buy 'Lai out' t shirts. Probably get them printed for a tenner.

And there was me trying to be subtle  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 05, 2022, 09:43:24 AM
And there was me trying to be subtle  ;D .

I was window shopping for one the other night  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 05, 2022, 10:04:26 AM
Purchase is not the point as an ACV, it would make it difficult - not impossible - for Guochuan, or any one whom he sold it on to, to  get planning permission to change its use - say, to a housing development.

If [and its a big if] Lai is considering the sale of the ground then I don't think it will be with the intention of bulldozering it for housing. In my opinion it is more likely to be similar to the blues ground, where they sold it to an offshore company and now lease it back for £1.25m per year. What is worrying is that they only have a 12 year lease, and after paying off liabilities they only came out with £10.8m, which Bowyer saw very little of.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56601076

It looks a rubbish deal. What happens after 12 years? I dread to think but is there any reason why Lai cannot go down this route? I seriously would not be surprised to see the ground go to another Lai company with a nominal cash transfer, only to see our friend cream off the rent for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 05, 2022, 10:36:38 AM
If [and its a big if] Lai is considering the sale of the ground then I don't think it will be with the intention of bulldozering it for housing. In my opinion it is more likely to be similar to the blues ground, where they sold it to an offshore company and now lease it back for £1.25m per year. What is worrying is that they only have a 12 year lease, and after paying off liabilities they only came out with £10.8m, which Bowyer saw very little of.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56601076

It looks a rubbish deal. What happens after 12 years? I dread to think but is there any reason why Lai cannot go down this route? I seriously would not be surprised to see the ground go to another Lai company with a nominal cash transfer, only to see our friend cream off the rent for the foreseeable future.


Interesting that BCFC valued St Andrews at £20 million.

IMO, it's a trade off, the Hawthorns is part of the asset value of the football club & selling the facility would therefore reduce it's overall value.
If the funds from the sale, were then used to provide a dividend, Lai could legitimately take the cash.

So he would get cash now, but devalue the asset longer term, & probably make the football club less attractive to a buyer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tlms-p23 on September 05, 2022, 10:53:49 AM
Unsurprising that our stewards dispossessed those with banners the other night, but presumably there's nothing to stop them being displayed at away games.

Chris Lepkowski said on the Liquidator podcast that flags/banners must be pre-approved by the club due to fire hazard risks. Said United have struggled with this in their battle against the Glazers.

I hope the fans mobilise and forcefully demonstrate against the owner, but it requires dirty tactics over an extended period. It’s got to get personal. Inventive and hostile chants, walkouts, boycott, demonstrations - Lai needs to be hounded and shamed into understanding what he has/is doing to our club.

It’s not a nice thought and in some ways it requires us to show the worst side of what is, by and large, a respectful fanbase. But it’s an absolute necessity. It has to get nasty for an extended period in great numbers.

As bad as some things have got, my hunch is that we’re some way from the majority of fans being willing to show the requisite anger. Will take a genuine relegation scrap/relegation IMV.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on September 05, 2022, 03:23:47 PM
I’d love any protest to work but I think it’s a complete waste of time unless we know he is going to be in attendance
Look at how long the inured fans have been protesting against the glazers and the air time they get
Unless it was something like an on pitch protest we will get no national coverage let alone international
He is merely the figure head of a group and I’m sure he would like shot if he could get anywhere near his money back which he will only get close to if we are a premier league team and have been consecutively for a few years so I think he will continue to syphon what he can to reduce his outlay be that loans or dividends
There were rumours surrounding the peireira sale with different amounts being sent to different companies and I’d love to see exactly what happened to the cash from his sale and hegazi because it hasn’t been spent on the team
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 05, 2022, 04:01:53 PM
d I’d love to see exactly what happened to the cash from his sale and hegazi because it hasn’t been spent on the team

Did you see the size of that puddle, took some filling I can tell you !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on September 05, 2022, 04:04:37 PM
sadly, the protest thing is not going to make any difference at all. Lai does not turn up to games and has never shown much interest in the club (partly because it is a long quarantine period in China for Covid). The games are not shown on TV in China so not even an embarrassment for him there. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 05, 2022, 04:05:51 PM
sadly, the protest thing is not going to make any difference at all. Lai does not turn up to games and has never shown much interest in the club (partly because it is a long quarantine period in China for Covid). The games are not shown on TV in China so not even an embarrassment for him there.


When his name is potentially about to be dragged anywhere near the public eye his ego activates and he intervenes. See Chris Wilder
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 05, 2022, 04:13:17 PM
sadly, the protest thing is not going to make any difference at all. Lai does not turn up to games and has never shown much interest in the club (partly because it is a long quarantine period in China for Covid). The games are not shown on TV in China so not even an embarrassment for him there.

Two points on that, it is likely that the games will be seen in China, but may be censored due to banners, and secondly they will be widely broadcast around the world and not censored, and the Chinese will not like that as it is out of their control.
It just needs to be out there that he is a terrible owner who is using us as his own bank. Once word is out there then it is likely to have an impact as the Chinese monitor everything for anti Chinese views.
If you can’t be bothered as you think it will be pointless then we deserve everything we get....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on September 05, 2022, 08:38:07 PM
Two points on that, it is likely that the games will be seen in China, but may be censored due to banners, and secondly they will be widely broadcast around the world and not censored, and the Chinese will not like that as it is out of their control.
It just needs to be out there that he is a terrible owner who is using us as his own bank. Once word is out there then it is likely to have an impact as the Chinese monitor everything for anti Chinese views.
If you can’t be bothered as you think it will be pointless then we deserve everything we get....
I think a lot of people are bothered but the odd little banner won’t do any good
Something akin to what I think charlton did a few years ago by every fan sneaking a tennis ball in and throwing it onto the pitch or something similar during a live match might have more impact
You then unfurl your banners while the stewards are busy collecting the said tennis balls and all on live tv
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 05, 2022, 09:26:47 PM
I think a lot of people are bothered but the odd little banner won’t do any good
Something akin to what I think charlton did a few years ago by every fan sneaking a tennis ball in and throwing it onto the pitch or something similar during a live match might have more impact
You then unfurl your banners while the stewards are busy collecting the said tennis balls and all on live tv

That’s more like it!👍
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on September 13, 2022, 10:28:54 AM
lias
@EliasBurke
▪️ #WBA looking for new auditors
▪️ PwC's replacement will be Albion's fourth auditor in seven years
▪️ Lai intends to use a dividend to repay the £7million he has borrowed from the club and its parent company for his businesses in China

Using the clubs own money via a dividend (in other words holding money back to make a profit to pay the dividend)  to pay his own loan would be the last straw, this owner has to go.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 13, 2022, 10:45:56 AM
lias
@EliasBurke
▪️ #WBA looking for new auditors
▪️ PwC's replacement will be Albion's fourth auditor in seven years
▪️ Lai intends to use a dividend to repay the £7million he has borrowed from the club and its parent company for his businesses in China

Using the clubs own money via a dividend (in other words holding money back to make a profit to pay the dividend)  to pay his own loan would be the last straw, this owner has to go.

Hugely predictable if so....... sadly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on September 13, 2022, 11:01:34 AM
lias
@EliasBurke
▪️ #WBA looking for new auditors
▪️ PwC's replacement will be Albion's fourth auditor in seven years
▪️ Lai intends to use a dividend to repay the £7million he has borrowed from the club and its parent company for his businesses in China

Using the clubs own money via a dividend (in other words holding money back to make a profit to pay the dividend)  to pay his own loan would be the last straw, this owner has to go.

Have those auditors walked away after qulifying the accounts?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2022, 11:19:13 AM
Time to continually make our feelings known
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2022, 11:43:59 AM
That's the 5m gone we were told he was repaying in Jan then
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on September 13, 2022, 11:45:31 AM
My understanding is that S4A are in the process of making an Application to Register the Hawthorns as and Asset of Community Value (ACV)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 13, 2022, 11:48:17 AM
Let's wait & see.

PWC have been auditors since 2017. (from companies house website)

As things stand from what we know, to make a profit that would generate a £7 million dividend, GL would have to either, put aside £7 million from parachute payments or raise £7 million from the sale of assets (players or the Hawthorns).

For a Chairman who has expressed a serious desire to build a promotion team, neither option makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 13, 2022, 11:50:16 AM
My understanding is that S4A are in the process of making an Application to Register the Hawthorns as and Asset of Community Value (ACV)

What does that mean?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on September 13, 2022, 12:09:51 PM
What does that mean?

It was discussed on the previous page

http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=15777.msg870730#msg870730
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on September 13, 2022, 12:29:38 PM
Let's wait & see.

PWC have been auditors since 2017. (from companies house website)

As things stand from what we know, to make a profit that would generate a £7 million dividend, GL would have to either, put aside £7 million from parachute payments or raise £7 million from the sale of assets (players or the Hawthorns).

For a Chairman who has expressed a serious desire to build a promotion team, neither option makes a lot of sense.


He hasn't really though has he? Indeed, we were so desperate to get whatever money we could we sold our prize asset for at least 10m less than he was worth then tried to rattle through the season using a couple of frees and chepa.

This was always going to be the danger if we didn't get promoted. The only way he would even get remotely close to what he paid is by us being an established premier league team again, which you pretty much need significant owner investment to do nowadays (or be extremely well run and innovative like Brentford). So with promotion unlikely, we are now in a very dangerous place where the only way to get money before selling is to extract it through other means.

The warning signs were there from Lai thinking we were an investment in the first place, considering the clubs entire worth at that time was entirely predicated on TV money and without any investment planned we were always liable to be relegated at some point. China's economy taking a hit now, particularly ongoing in the leisure business Lai works in is only going to exacerbate everything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2022, 12:36:53 PM
Yeah Lai's words are one thing, his actions directly oppose them usually.

Generally in terms of dividends (i trade the US stock market, i don't do dividend stocks though) you will do very well to find a solid company paying out 8% of it's profit per year in dividends at best. Many big company dividends are around 3-4% per annum, now i'm not sure whether that is because of market restrictions though or just companies, by choice, limiting how much they pay out to the shareholder ( In this case Lai basically).

I believe we made approximately 100k in the PL Covid season 20-21 and i expect us to turn a profit last yea (21-22)r as well when released but nowhere near £7m and the bigger question is even if we did make £6.9m last season to make it 7m total profit over 2 seasons can he pay himself 88% of the profit?

As things stand we are not publicly traded so perhaps he can do what he wants. I don't know.

Anyone with superior dividend stock knowledge know?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 13, 2022, 01:00:50 PM
To pay a dividend (to all shareholders), a company has to make a profit.

Profits have tax implications.

Once you've made provision to meet your tax commitments, any profit left can be paid as a dividend.

The process is pretty simple, it's how to get there that can be complex.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 13, 2022, 01:04:27 PM
Is corp tax still 19%?

If so, we will need to clear roughly 10m in profit before tax, to allow him to pay £8m in dividends to gain £7m (88%/ £7m to himself & 12%/£1m to S4A)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2022, 01:05:23 PM
To pay a dividend (to all shareholders), a company has to make a profit.

Profits have tax implications.

Once you've made provision to meet your tax commitments, any profit left can be paid as a dividend.

The process is pretty simple, it's how to get there that can be complex.


John I understand what you have said, i was just unsure whether there were regulations surrounding how much of a dividend could be paid out per annum from profits. Seems not which is worrying. Thanks for clearing it up!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on September 13, 2022, 01:10:26 PM
Time to continually make our feelings known

that was happening at the Burnley game until the drummer in the Smethwick decided to bang his drum so hard and out of tune the chant died slowly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2022, 01:17:53 PM
that was happening at the Burnley game until the drummer in the Smethwick decided to bang his drum so hard and out of tune the chant died slowly

Someone needs to bang him on the head then  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zac on September 13, 2022, 01:28:40 PM
lias
@EliasBurke
▪️ #WBA looking for new auditors
▪️ PwC's replacement will be Albion's fourth auditor in seven years
▪️ Lai intends to use a dividend to repay the £7million he has borrowed from the club and its parent company for his businesses in China

Using the clubs own money via a dividend (in other words holding money back to make a profit to pay the dividend)  to pay his own loan would be the last straw, this owner has to go.

I can't believe he is going to do this, unreal. Like others have said now is the time to make our feelings known, this can't continue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on September 13, 2022, 01:29:50 PM
Is corp tax still 19%?

If so, we will need to clear roughly 10m in profit before tax, to allow him to pay £8m in dividends to gain £7m (88%/ £7m to himself & 12%/£1m to S4A)

Not quite true, different classes of share holders can receive different levels of dividends.

I don’t know if this is the case, but if Lai holds ‘A’ class shares and S4A hold ‘B’ class then it is entirely possible and legal to announce that you are only paying a dividend to A class share holders.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bidbaggie on September 13, 2022, 01:30:06 PM
Let's wait & see.

PWC have been auditors since 2017. (from companies house website)

As things stand from what we know, to make a profit that would generate a £7 million dividend, GL would have to either, put aside £7 million from parachute payments or raise £7 million from the sale of assets (players or the Hawthorns).

For a Chairman who has expressed a serious desire to build a promotion team, neither option makes a lot of sense.

You can pay a dividend out of retained earnings so there is no need for him to have to do this - the profit generated does not have to be in the same year.

From a very quick glance at the accounts, there is enough in the brought forward kitty to do this. Paying a dividend would just then become an accounting exercise which would repay the loan back - the only cash that then needs to come out of the business would be the portion payable to the minority shareholders.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on September 13, 2022, 01:31:15 PM
I can't believe he is going to do this, unreal. Like others have said now is the time to make our feelings known, this can't continue.

Not sure what difference it makes.  If he paid back the £7m from his own money it just means he'll still take the £7m dividends and pocket that. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on September 13, 2022, 01:34:42 PM
I can see Gourlay leaving if this keeps happening, he can only try and defend so much c**p that Lai and his cronies push his way. This is a shame because by all accounts he wants the best for the club and has done some very good things thus far.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tlms-p23 on September 13, 2022, 02:09:28 PM
As much as I'd love to see protests in the hope of nipping Lai in the bud and preventing the **** from turning us into Blues, Derby or worse, the Albion fanbase are respectful and largely placid.

IMO it will take things going wrong on the pitch to cause large scale, well organised, mobilised group of supporters intent on damaging his name and reputation to the extent that he chooses to cut his loses. An ugly fight but absolutely necessary if we want him gone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on September 13, 2022, 02:25:36 PM
Someone needs to bang him on the head then  ;D

just don't let the drum in, we don't need it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ashdoy on September 13, 2022, 03:23:20 PM
I hate Lai but correct me if im wrong...

he borrowed £7m

made us a profit

now paying himself £7m as a dividend so in affect he is above board and not taking anything?

Or have I totally misunderstood...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2022, 03:24:52 PM
I hate Lai but correct me if im wrong...

he borrowed £7m

made us a profit

now paying himself £7m as a dividend so in affect he is above board and not taking anything?

Or have I totally misunderstood...



He's going to skimp and save on the club, hold back money, sell players etc until the club shows enough profit he can use it to pay it back from the clubs money rather than his own personal money.


We made 100k in the PL season so he needs another 6.9m
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on September 13, 2022, 04:13:25 PM
I hate Lai but correct me if im wrong...

he borrowed £7m

made us a profit

now paying himself £7m as a dividend so in affect he is above board and not taking anything?

Or have I totally misunderstood...
This is my understanding . He is not taking his dividend but leaving it in/for the club as payment for the loan
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 13, 2022, 04:38:18 PM
This is my understanding . He is not taking his dividend but leaving it in/for the club as payment for the loan

It still amounts to the club losing millions in a way that only two other clubs in England have seen in the past 20 years (Man Utd and Swansea according to Kieran Maquire).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on September 13, 2022, 04:54:16 PM
I hate Lai but correct me if im wrong...

he borrowed £7m

made us a profit

now paying himself £7m as a dividend so in affect he is above board and not taking anything?

Or have I totally misunderstood...

He shouldn't be loaning money or taking a dividend with the position the club currently finds itself in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on September 13, 2022, 05:03:18 PM
From a 'layman's' perspective, it seems Lai borrowed money from the club and the club is now paying his debt back from it's own earnings/ profits? Seems legal of course but seems a simple way for Lai to legally extract money from the club - not small amounts either.  I'd expect him to continue to do it too...........

Lai Out
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on September 13, 2022, 05:07:16 PM
From a 'layman's' perspective, it seems Lai borrowed money from the club and the club is now paying his debt back from it's own earnings/ profits? Seems legal of course but seems a simple way for Lai to legally extract money from the club - not small amounts either.  I'd expect him to continue to do it too...........

Lai Out

I agree he needs to go.

God knows what the next set of accounts will show for last season, did he take any of the MP money out ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2022, 05:09:10 PM
I agree he needs to go.

God knows what the next set of accounts will show for last season, did he take any of the MP money out ?

I strongly believe, as i did with the PL season when everyone said we would lose millions and millions, that we will end up in the black when last seasons accounts come out next year. They have too for his plan to work.  He's making ongoing profit by limitiing our budget each season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on September 13, 2022, 05:14:21 PM
I strongly believe, as i did with the PL season when everyone said we would lose millions and millions, that we will end up in the black when last seasons accounts come out next year. They have too for his plan to work.  He's making ongoing profit by limitiing our budget each season.
This is exacty what is happening.  Plain as the nose on your face.  Unless we fluke a promotion soon we are championship at best for the forseeable.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on September 13, 2022, 05:16:09 PM
He's doing what many a poor business or businessperson does when they've run out of actual ideas or talent. They just cut the staff budget until their profits look more healthy. Then reward themselves with bonuses (dividends) for performing so well financially.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 13, 2022, 05:17:38 PM
You can pay a dividend out of retained earnings so there is no need for him to have to do this - the profit generated does not have to be in the same year.

From a very quick glance at the accounts, there is enough in the brought forward kitty to do this. Paying a dividend would just then become an accounting exercise which would repay the loan back - the only cash that then needs to come out of the business would be the portion payable to the minority shareholders.

Can you point us to this in the accounts please? (The page will do) My understanding is we haven't made a profit for a very long time.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2022, 05:18:46 PM
This is exacty what is happening.  Plain as the nose on your face.  Unless we fluke a promotion soon we are championship at best for the forseeable.


Feels like he's knocking a few million quid out of our true budget for the season, each season, saying we can't afford what we need until he recoups it back. It's not rocket science but it is bad news for us.


When i think back to that article where they said the total 2 year parachute payments for WBA would be budgeted/split over 3 years. He can squeeze out a few million here and there over 3 years rather than the lot over 2 when it would be more noticeable possibly?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2022, 05:19:34 PM
He's doing what many a poor business or businessperson does when they've run out of actual ideas or talent. They just cut the staff budget until their profits look more healthy. Then reward themselves with bonuses (dividends) for performing so well financially.


This is it in short. Cut so many costs, that are not needed, until the books are black and he doesn't owe us a penny.

What league we will be in by then who knows.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bidbaggie on September 13, 2022, 05:48:20 PM
Can you point us to this in the accounts please? (The page will do) My understanding is we haven't made a profit for a very long time.

Of course, it is the profit and loss account carried forward on the Football Club Accounts (pg 14 - £11m) and there is also WBA group ltd (pg 15 - £24m)

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on September 13, 2022, 05:58:40 PM
I agree he needs to go.

God knows what the next set of accounts will show for last season, did he take any of the MP money out ?

The words that have been used to me to describe our situation are ‘financial basket case ‘ .

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 13, 2022, 05:59:16 PM
As I understand it he can take a salary and a dividend
He'll pay tax on both but if he's got any brains he'll be taking a dividend which accrues less tax
That's how it was in my day, don't know what the rules are nowadays on this
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 13, 2022, 06:48:29 PM
Of course, it is the profit and loss account carried forward on the Football Club Accounts (pg 14 - £11m) and there is also WBA group ltd (pg 15 - £24m)

Yes, I've got that now.

It looks as though there is a provision in the football club accounts of around £13 million to pay future creditor commitments. This looks as though it's not been included in Group accounts.

So, in reality, there's about £11 million in retained earnings, have I understood that correctly?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on September 13, 2022, 08:24:44 PM
I'd need somebody who understands it to explain it all, but it doesn't help look fishy when we spread the parachute  payments over 3 seasons and sold players without bringing them in at the tail end of the window. All looks like money being saved to allow for a dividend.

The club is in effect being asset stripped isn't it? I don't really get the difference, maybe somebody can give me a different take but to a lay man that's how it looks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 13, 2022, 08:27:54 PM
I'd need somebody who understands it to explain it all, but it doesn't help look fishy when we spread the parachute  payments over 3 seasons and sold players without bringing them in at the tail end of the window. All looks like money being saved to allow for a dividend.

The club is in effect being asset stripped isn't it? I don't really get the difference, maybe somebody can give me a different take but to a lay man that's how it looks.


He's not directly stripping the club but he's cutting the clubs cloth harsher than needed to make his dividend, it's all bad news whichever way you dice it.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on September 13, 2022, 08:38:41 PM
I'd need somebody who understands it to explain it all, but it doesn't help look fishy when we spread the parachute  payments over 3 seasons and sold players without bringing them in at the tail end of the window. All looks like money being saved to allow for a dividend.

The club is in effect being asset stripped isn't it? I don't really get the difference, maybe somebody can give me a different take but to a lay man that's how it looks.

Technically not asset stripping, but taking money out of the club without investing much? Yes, he is doing that which is perfectly legal.

At this rate we will end up like Swansea who did similar (or worse). The issue with Lai's strategy is that when the parachute money goes, he won't be able to take much money out as we won't have any. Imagine 3-4 more windows of free's and loans. That will be what our team looks like which won't produce any money. It's a short term way for him to get some money from the club but as our quality declines he won't be able to do it. Not that that helps the club of course.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 13, 2022, 09:07:47 PM
I'd need somebody who understands it to explain it all, but it doesn't help look fishy when we spread the parachute  payments over 3 seasons and sold players without bringing them in at the tail end of the window. All looks like money being saved to allow for a dividend.

The club is in effect being asset stripped isn't it? I don't really get the difference, maybe somebody can give me a different take but to a lay man that's how it looks.

You are right, the result is no different to asset stripping even if technically it’s not asset stripping. Buying an asset to sell would be an unnecessary extra step.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on September 13, 2022, 09:13:55 PM
Technically not asset stripping, but taking money out of the club without investing much? Yes, he is doing that which is perfectly legal.

At this rate we will end up like Swansea who did similar (or worse). The issue with Lai's strategy is that when the parachute money goes, he won't be able to take much money out as we won't have any. Imagine 3-4 more windows of free's and loans. That will be what our team looks like which won't produce any money. It's a short term way for him to get some money from the club but as our quality declines he won't be able to do it. Not that that helps the club of course.

Swansea at least asset stripped alongside having an intelligent and modern infrastructure supporting the club.

We seem to be content to do the same but by managing the club straight out the 90's. Much worse implications for us unless we can make the play offs and get promoted. Even then I suspect he'll try and bank the TV money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 13, 2022, 10:00:25 PM
I'd need somebody who understands it to explain it all, but it doesn't help look fishy when we spread the parachute  payments over 3 seasons and sold players without bringing them in at the tail end of the window. All looks like money being saved to allow for a dividend.

The club is in effect being asset stripped isn't it? I don't really get the difference, maybe somebody can give me a different take but to a lay man that's how it looks.

Not sure it is asset stripping as such. The definition of asset stripping

the practice of taking over a company in financial difficulties and selling each of its assets separately at a profit without regard for the company's future.

We certainly aren’t in financial difficulty, more like he is the one with financial issues so at this point I would see it more like he is ‘borrowing’ any surplus cash we have for his own purposes in whatever way he or the club dresses it up to be. Is it a loan or will it be consolidated as a dividend? Who knows?


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on September 14, 2022, 07:38:22 AM
Swansea at least asset stripped alongside having an intelligent and modern infrastructure supporting the club.

We seem to be content to do the same but by managing the club straight out the 90's. Much worse implications for us unless we can make the play offs and get promoted. Even then I suspect he'll try and bank the TV money.

Well with Swansea they've certainly go backwards in terms of their 'strategy' and I think we'll do the same. I don't think their modern infrastructure is too relevant either if you've got an owner who doesn't invest. Ultimately, you'll go backwards regardless.

The one thing I'd say about Lai is that he could have banked more money if needed. He could have sold Johnstone last year for £5-10 million, perhaps done similar with Diangana and Grant. I've always maintained that his 'policies' aren't good but we're not at that point just yet where the real penny pinching begins. Regardless, the next few years will be bleak.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 14, 2022, 09:24:21 AM
Well with Swansea they've certainly go backwards in terms of their 'strategy' and I think we'll do the same. I don't think their modern infrastructure is too relevant either if you've got an owner who doesn't invest. Ultimately, you'll go backwards regardless.

The one thing I'd say about Lai is that he could have banked more money if needed. He could have sold Johnstone last year for £5-10 million, perhaps done similar with Diangana and Grant. I've always maintained that his 'policies' aren't good but we're not at that point just yet where the real penny pinching begins. Regardless, the next few years will be bleak.
How could he have legally taken money out of the club via player sales?
Do you mean more loans?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 14, 2022, 11:13:27 AM
How could he have legally taken money out of the club via player sales?
Do you mean more loans?

Player registrations are considered assets, which he could convert to cash by selling.

Monies gained from the sale of player registrations are shown as income on the profit & loss account.

So.................he could then show an operating profit & subsequently declare a dividend.

However.........................Selling player registrations wil..........

a) Make the team less competitive

b) Reduce the asset & subsequent sale value of the football club.

& therefore be counter productive.

If it's correct that Lai paid, around £170 million for West Bromwich Albion Holdings, then there is no chance he will get anything like that amount back by taking out bits  & bobs, especially if it jeopardises chances of promotion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bidbaggie on September 14, 2022, 12:38:57 PM
Yes, I've got that now.

It looks as though there is a provision in the football club accounts of around £13 million to pay future creditor commitments. This looks as though it's not been included in Group accounts.

So, in reality, there's about £11 million in retained earnings, have I understood that correctly?

hi John

sorry for the late reply but really busy at work at the moment. If there is a provision, this would have already been taken into account within the 24m so wouldnt need to come off this in future periods - it would just be a cash movement when paid. The means the full amount could be distributed as a dividend subject to companies house requirements.

As i said before, i havent had chance to look at the accounts in any great detail so if you want to point me to the paragraph/note then i can have a closer look


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 14, 2022, 01:48:02 PM
hi John

sorry for the late reply but really busy at work at the moment. If there is a provision, this would have already been taken into account within the 24m so wouldnt need to come off this in future periods - it would just be a cash movement when paid. The means the full amount could be distributed as a dividend subject to companies house requirements.

As i said before, i havent had chance to look at the accounts in any great detail so if you want to point me to the paragraph/note then i can have a closer look

Comparing equity in group & football club accounts, there is a difference of £13 milllion in retained earnings.
Group have declared £24 million, the football club £11 million.

The £16 million provisioned for creditors due more than 12 months appears in the balance sheet for the football club accounts, but not in group accounts.

Page 16 Group

Page 15 Football Club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ashdoy on September 14, 2022, 01:57:16 PM
I say this all the time on threads like this....

But can somebody, really simply, explain all this to me (lol, sorry!).

I am awful with things like this.

All I can see at the moment is;

Lai owns WBA
Lai owns another company, lets say XYZ.

Lai lends XYZ £7m from WBA.

Lai doesnt pay this loan back.

WBA make profit. Lai pays himself £7m.

Lai then writes off the loan with this £7m so in affect WBA are £7m down?

Am i right?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2022, 02:04:06 PM
WBA aren't down as such, he is withholding money from the clubs available finances so that the books show a profit.

The club is not in financial trouble currently, Lai makes it seem that way.

The actions he takes to make that profit though will result, sooner or later, in a weakening of the team unless we hit jackpot on some free/cheap transfers.

Possibly why we went for the free signings and higher wages type deals we have this season.



EDIT - In simple terms if we have a total budget of 50m (purely an example number) for the season for everything, he will only authorise the club to use 45m of it. Thus ensuring 5m has been put aside to black the books.  If we have to go without a player we needed to get promoted in order for that to happen then that is fine with Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bidbaggie on September 14, 2022, 02:29:59 PM
I say this all the time on threads like this....

But can somebody, really simply, explain all this to me (lol, sorry!).

I am awful with things like this.

All I can see at the moment is;

Lai owns WBA
Lai owns another company, lets say XYZ.

Lai lends XYZ £7m from WBA.

Lai doesnt pay this loan back.

WBA make profit. Lai pays himself £7m.

Lai then writes off the loan with this £7m so in affect WBA are £7m down?

Am i right?

In a nutshell yes!

But it doesn’t have to be off profits made post the most recent accounts as there is already brought forward accumulated profits to do this
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 14, 2022, 02:33:02 PM
We are down. Ashdoy's simple explanation is correct.

At present you could argue we are down in liquidity only as we have a debtor, but given the expected sequence of events  I would consider us to be down already. How the business creates the profit to pay the dividend for those events materialize doesnt really matter when purely considering if the club is down or not.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 14, 2022, 02:54:42 PM
Any profit that this football club makes is not because we're remarkably well run or sustainable. The profit would imply that is the case but it is simply not true.

This football club across many formats has been severely underfunded to the extent our cost cutting has now seen us try to rid ourselves of relatively high earners without any replacements being sought.

This is manufacturing a profit...

Lai might not pay himself any dividends (or however it works) to repay the money he owes us but that does not account for the sheer neglect that he has shown this football club to preserve his own failing businesses in China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on September 14, 2022, 03:01:47 PM
Sadly, we're just another business to him and probably his strongest asset when you consider the state of the housing market in the far east, and the knock-on effect of Evergrande defaulting.

He is the owner and can do what he wants basically, sad but true.

We have to be promoted so he can sell us for a flat fee that increases based on prem survival. That is the only hope for him and for us.

Without premier league football within 2 years our whole existence is at risk.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2022, 03:03:30 PM
Hoping S4A kick into action soon.

25000 Lai Out t shirts wpould be good
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on September 14, 2022, 03:11:14 PM
Any profit that this football club makes is not because we're remarkably well run or sustainable. The profit would imply that is the case but it is simply not true.

This football club across many formats has been severely underfunded to the extent our cost cutting has now seen us try to rid ourselves of relatively high earners without any replacements being sought.

This is manufacturing a profit...

Lai might not pay himself any dividends (or however it works) to repay the money he owes us but that does not account for the sheer neglect that he has shown this football club to preserve his own failing businesses in China.

This is the real issue for me - Lai's solution to release money from the club  seems to be to basically starve it of money and to cream off what he can each year via loans, dividends etc. Does he also take a wage for the privilege of running our club into the ground which would be another way to bleed us dry!?

It's getting difficult to separate paying money to the club and putting it directly into Lai's pockets for me now!   >:(




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on September 14, 2022, 04:15:08 PM
Player registrations are considered assets, which he could convert to cash by selling.

Monies gained from the sale of player registrations are shown as income on the profit & loss account.

So.................he could then show an operating profit & subsequently declare a dividend.

However.........................Selling player registrations wil..........

a) Make the team less competitive

b) Reduce the asset & subsequent sale value of the football club.

& therefore be counter productive.

If it's correct that Lai paid, around £170 million for West Bromwich Albion Holdings, then there is no chance he will get anything like that amount back by taking out bits  & bobs, especially if it jeopardises chances of promotion.

Yeah, I completely agree with this point. I believe Lai thought he could invest in the Premier League, stay up relatively easy like previous years, earn a yearly profit and then sell at profit when/if the TV money went up. Overall, it sounds like a solid idea but obviously relegation and reality changed this.

Since then, he's taken out bits and bobs as you say which are tiny in comparison to the money he paid. Still, you'd rather be down £160 million than £170 million I guess, especially during a difficult financial period at home. Maybe this is wishful thinking but if he continues a similar strategy next year and then sells at a loss after the parachute/player money has been withdrawn then we could see the back of him. I doubt this will happen but here's to hoping.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on September 14, 2022, 08:28:46 PM
Hoping S4A kick into action soon.

25000 Lai Out t shirts wpould be good
50000 West Brom families willing to invest 2 grand each would be better to offer him a way out
Owned by the supporters
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2022, 08:30:07 PM
50000 West Brom families willing to invest 2 grand each would be better to offer him a way out
Owned by the supporters

I agree but i think he wants more than that from what was reported.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on September 14, 2022, 08:42:47 PM
I agree but i think he wants more than that from what was reported.
At this moment in time that’s more than generous
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2022, 08:45:16 PM
At this moment in time that’s more than generous


Again i agree but he's so clueless or arrogant he won't care
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 14, 2022, 09:13:33 PM
I feel that he is a blood sucker.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on September 15, 2022, 06:47:21 AM
I feel that he is a sucker.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on September 16, 2022, 10:34:30 PM
Lai has been a disaster from the moment he bought the club, it was and always will be only a financial investment for him, it was never about improving us as a club.
He would go close to the worse owner (yeap even including Ashley at NUFC) that has bought a Premier League club this century.

It would not surprise me to see him drain every last cent out of this club. I know that no one can control whether he owns the club or not, but we need him out as soon as possible. Sorry pretty emotional today, just so sick of watching us go from weakness to weakness year on year and needed a bit of venting today.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ttree30 on September 16, 2022, 10:41:00 PM
Lai has been a disaster from the moment he bought the club, it was and always will be only a financial investment for him, it was never about improving us as a club.
He would go close to the worse owner (yeap even including Ashley at NUFC) that has bought a Premier League club this century.

It would not surprise me to see him drain every last cent out of this club. I know that no one can control whether he owns the club or not, but we need him out as soon as possible. Sorry pretty emotional today, just so sick of watching us go from weakness to weakness year on year and needed a bit of venting today.

Completely understand. I feel sick.

He’s not “asset stripping.” He’s just destroying the assets.

Don’t know how he’s managed to be an alleged tycoon, because he seems utterly incompetent. It’s China - perhaps it’s just a case of who he knows….
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 17, 2022, 12:50:07 AM
Potentially unpopular opinion but I don't believe he paid that much for us so he could struggle to appear more incompetent with each passing decision. I think he and his co backers were in possession of more money than they knew what to do with at a time of Chinese expansion and made a really stupid decision.

Let's face it. There's absolutely no way in hell he/they are/were capable of enough joined up thinking to have predicted a change in Chinese overseas policy and a pandemic which required the purchase of our club as a means of keeping the rest of his/their portfolio afloat.

This may be a naive approach on things but I remain to be convinced otherwise. At the same time I'm not entirely sure they were familiar with the term 'relegation' and what that could involve either.

The alternative being he/they are soothsayer business geniuses with savant like qualities and our current circumstances are but a blip ahead of worldwide football domination. And I think we can all agree that's very definitely not the case  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on September 17, 2022, 07:03:05 AM
Potentially unpopular opinion but I don't believe he paid that much for us so he could struggle to appear more incompetent with each passing decision. I think he and his co backers were in possession of more money than they knew what to do with at a time of Chinese expansion and made a really stupid decision.

Let's face it. There's absolutely no way in hell he/they are/were capable of enough joined up thinking to have predicted a change in Chinese overseas policy and a pandemic which required the purchase of our club as a means of keeping the rest of his/their portfolio afloat.

This may be a naive approach on things but I remain to be convinced otherwise. At the same time I'm not entirely sure they were familiar with the term 'relegation' and what that could involve either.

The alternative being he/they are soothsayer business geniuses with savant like qualities and our current circumstances are but a blip ahead of worldwide football domination. And I think we can all agree that's very definitely not the case  ;D .

I agree with this and don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. Back when he bought us things were very different in China and the world was a wealthier, more optimistic place. From what I gather, he thought he could continue Peace's (difficult) strategy of keeping us in the Premier League and make more money as the Premier League cash kept growing every now and then.

Obviously, football isn't like that and reality is always harder than ideas. Since then though, he's resorted to paying dividends and the like which hasn't helped the club. So, I don't think he had a conspiracy to originally ruin the club but it's almost irrelevant now due to the way it's panned out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 17, 2022, 07:58:54 AM
Potentially unpopular opinion but I don't believe he paid that much for us so he could struggle to appear more incompetent with each passing decision. I think he and his co backers were in possession of more money than they knew what to do with at a time of Chinese expansion and made a really stupid decision.

Let's face it. There's absolutely no way in hell he/they are/were capable of enough joined up thinking to have predicted a change in Chinese overseas policy and a pandemic which required the purchase of our club as a means of keeping the rest of his/their portfolio afloat.

This may be a naive approach on things but I remain to be convinced otherwise. At the same time I'm not entirely sure they were familiar with the term 'relegation' and what that could involve either.

The alternative being he/they are soothsayer business geniuses with savant like qualities and our current circumstances are but a blip ahead of worldwide football domination. And I think we can all agree that's very definitely not the case  ;D .

I tend to agree with this. Think they were sold the dream by the 'lifelong Albion fan' and saw all the PL money coming in on the books. I do remember a statement early on saying that nothing would change after the takeover, so we all immediately resigned ourselves to the fact that we would not be shelling out big bucks for players. The appointment of Williams and the manipulation of the capped one didn't help the cause, and as you say no one could have predicted the global pandemic.

I do wonder what the set up is with Lai; as I understand it he is the front for a consortium of investors. So was he just put forward or did he actively canvass for investors promising a big return from the 'English Greed League' ? If I was an investor I would not be happy so I do wonder if he is syphoning money off to appease them.

All I will say is that a true 'lifelong Albion fan' would never do this to his club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 17, 2022, 08:24:41 AM
Potentially unpopular opinion but I don't believe he paid that much for us so he could struggle to appear more incompetent with each passing decision. I think he and his co backers were in possession of more money than they knew what to do with at a time of Chinese expansion and made a really stupid decision.

Let's face it. There's absolutely no way in hell he/they are/were capable of enough joined up thinking to have predicted a change in Chinese overseas policy and a pandemic which required the purchase of our club as a means of keeping the rest of his/their portfolio afloat.

This may be a naive approach on things but I remain to be convinced otherwise. At the same time I'm not entirely sure they were familiar with the term 'relegation' and what that could involve either.

The alternative being he/they are soothsayer business geniuses with savant like qualities and our current circumstances are but a blip ahead of worldwide football domination. And I think we can all agree that's very definitely not the case  ;D .

Tend to agree Dan, I also think he could have bought a higher profile european football club than WBAFC for £170 million.

The stupid decision he made was to buy a business he knew nothing about, whatever he paid for it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 17, 2022, 08:52:28 AM
I agree with this and don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise.......

So you haven't read anything about how we were purchased for the purpose of money laundering? I've definitely read that one more than once.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 17, 2022, 09:23:11 AM
So you haven't read anything about how we were purchased for the purpose of money laundering? I've definitely read that one more than once.

I certainly haven’t Dan. Is the suggestion that the money used to buy the club was dirty? And it is now being taken out in instalments? Or money subsequently invested is dirty? If it is plan B it’s not going well.....

Probably needs the bloke from Ozark to join the board!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 17, 2022, 09:27:40 AM
I can't stand the bloke but i don't think he bought us for money laundering. He's just completely clueless and so out of his depth it's scary.

Even worse is that he doesn't seem to understand he will only lose more money the longer he remains here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 17, 2022, 09:51:10 AM
I certainly haven’t Dan. Is the suggestion that the money used to buy the club was dirty? And it is now being taken out in instalments? Or money subsequently invested is dirty? If it is plan B it’s not going well.....

Probably needs the bloke from Ozark to join the board!

As in purchase monies and then using Albion as a means to launder. I stress I am not making such an accusation but it was a fairly prominent online theme a while back. I was just making a broader point that it's been suggested our purchase wasn't just an innocent stupid mistake by a group of buffoons.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 17, 2022, 09:59:14 AM
As in purchase monies and then using Albion as a means to launder. I stress I am not making such an accusation but it was a fairly prominent online theme a while back. I was just making a broader point that it's been suggested our purchase wasn't just an innocent stupid mistake by a group of buffoons.

I know and I am certainly not suggesting otherwise. I would be interested to see any articles suggesting this though.

I would have thought that the FA would have exercised full provenance checks on the funds used to purchase the shares to be honest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on September 17, 2022, 10:02:00 AM
Usually money laundering is taking over some marginally poor business and ploughing your dirty money into it or using marginally honest lawyers and estate agents to buy expensive flats on the Thames.  If you don't fit them out with sanitary ware etc, you don't pay rates so they're an appreciating asset as much as gold.

I don't see this in Yunyi Guokai's acquisition of the club.  Rather it is bad investment that they are now trying to recover bit by bit by director's loans and disposal of club assets (eg Pereira).

If the Hawthorns becomes an ACV, it will make it a little less attractive to developers whom Guochuan would want to flog it to.

FA's suitability checking is a joke like the management of a lot of UK financial regulation and oversight.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 17, 2022, 10:50:03 AM
As in purchase monies and then using Albion as a means to launder. I stress I am not making such an accusation but it was a fairly prominent online theme a while back. I was just making a broader point that it's been suggested our purchase wasn't just an innocent stupid mistake by a group of buffoons.

While the owner & his dealings remain opaque, there will always be conspiracy theories.

Allegedly, he ran a very succesfull landscaping business in China, we provided european publicity for it in our first year, even to the point of re-naming our training facility.

The  aquisition was sold to us on the basis of his success with Palm, there were even nuances that our development was linked to that of Palm.

IMO, Lai isn't a fool, but he made the fundamental mistake of acquiring a business that he knew nothing about.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 17, 2022, 10:55:31 AM
I haven't suggested otherwise  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 17, 2022, 11:02:55 AM
I agree with those stating it doesn’t make any sense as a money laundering operation.
 
Putting £170m in to get £7m out 5 years later?  There would be tonnes of cash transaction  businesses, easy to flip properties, where you’d do it much faster. Nevermind easier territories than the UK to try and do it in.

It’s been a terrible investment for Lai, almost certainly not one he’d make in hindsight but I think that’s all it is.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on September 22, 2022, 08:30:30 AM
Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? How does Lai unload this mess of a club? China's economy is a mess, and he's never going to come close to recouping his investment. How low do we have to get before he admits that enough is enough, and cuts his 'Huge' losses? Because until he is gone, we as a club are in limbo, with zero investment, and as of next season, having huge overheads we can no longer afford. Any potential buyer will surely try and take advantage of the situation. How do we get out of this mess?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 22, 2022, 09:01:30 AM
Just got to hope he sees sense and realises he's way out of his depth and sells at a loss while there is still something left.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on September 22, 2022, 11:56:43 AM
I'm no accountant and approach this from purely a layman's perspective and hope it makes some kind of understandable sense, any accountants please put me straight if my thinking is off on this.

So, the club is not in any debt, operates on the self sufficient model / blueprint that JRP introduced and operated, has tangible and intangible assets, therefore, apart from the loss in Lai's investment in buying the club, it's not actually costing him any additionally losses other than, as I said, the current diminishing market value of the club.

A big loss I know, but are there any accounting procedures that a smart accountant could implement, any type of right off's et al. that would enable him to sell the club and would minimise his loss that would make it more acceptable for him to sell?

In accounting, is there a point that could / would encourage him that now (whenever now is) is a good time to sell the club that minimises his loss? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 22, 2022, 01:21:27 PM
I agree with those stating it doesn’t make any sense as a money laundering operation.
 
Putting £170m in to get £7m out 5 years later?  There would be tonnes of cash transaction  businesses, easy to flip properties, where you’d do it much faster. Nevermind easier territories than the UK to try and do it in.

It’s been a terrible investment for Lai, almost certainly not one he’d make in hindsight but I think that’s all it is.

Lai is just the figurehead for the Chinese investors who together bought the club, he didn't buy the club with his own money, he never had that sort of cash to begin with. The takeover was funded by a consortium who presumably were looking for a reasonable yield on their investment and just as importantly to own assets / wealth outside the reach of the Chinese Communist Party. Jeremy Peace knew who he was selling to and sold the fans and media a yarn of lies about Lai taking us onto the next level and all the other billionaire BS headlines.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on September 22, 2022, 01:25:50 PM
Football finance expert Kieran Maguire (price of football) has just tweeted the following from our accounts (lodged yesterday at companies house):

"West Brom are released from a series of mortgage loans. Many are quite old & have probably been paid off some time ago so could be just a bit of housekeeping. Alternatively could be clearing the decks to allow club to borrow from a new source"

https://mobile.twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1572845022424272896
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on September 22, 2022, 03:21:06 PM
Football finance expert Kieran Maguire (price of football) has just tweeted the following from our accounts (lodged yesterday at companies house):

"West Brom are released from a series of mortgage loans. Many are quite old & have probably been paid off some time ago so could be just a bit of housekeeping. Alternatively could be clearing the decks to allow club to borrow from a new source"

https://mobile.twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1572845022424272896

I wonder if Lai could take out loans in the club's name, secure the ground against them and then pay dividends to himself from the proceeds of the loan.

I have my suspicions!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 22, 2022, 03:33:38 PM
Football finance expert Kieran Maguire (price of football) has just tweeted the following from our accounts (lodged yesterday at companies house):

"West Brom are released from a series of mortgage loans. Many are quite old & have probably been paid off some time ago so could be just a bit of housekeeping. Alternatively could be clearing the decks to allow club to borrow from a new source"

https://mobile.twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1572845022424272896

Looks like they're old charges (loans) from 2003 & 2005 to pay legal & accountancy fees.

Didn't someone say we're changing accountants? Might be a house keeping exercise for that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on September 22, 2022, 04:46:34 PM
i would guess Lai has increased the membership for S4A after the summer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on September 22, 2022, 06:42:35 PM
i would guess Lai has increased the membership for S4A after the summer.

You would be right.

Membership has increased by 10% this season
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on September 22, 2022, 07:21:15 PM
i would guess Lai has increased the membership for S4A after the summer.

Please could you explain? Do you mean that by his actions and manoeuvres, Lai has drawn in more people to invest in S4A or has increased the value of its holdings (surely not).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 23, 2022, 08:51:21 AM
Lai is just the figurehead for the Chinese investors who together bought the club, he didn't buy the club with his own money, he never had that sort of cash to begin with. The takeover was funded by a consortium who presumably were looking for a reasonable yield on their investment and just as importantly to own assets / wealth outside the reach of the Chinese Communist Party. Jeremy Peace knew who he was selling to and sold the fans and media a yarn of lies about Lai taking us onto the next level and all the other billionaire BS headlines.

I'm not sure I understand this comment.

Nobody buys a football club to generate income. I could understand someone buying a run down football club, with a view to adding value & then selling at a profit. Lai, allegedly, paid a premium price for WBA Holdings, so there has to be other reasons.

It might well be that Lai represents a consortium who collectively own WBAFC Holdings, but he would surely have a significant interest in the consortium to be the leader? IMO, he's a lot more than a figurehead.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 23, 2022, 10:05:07 AM
Please could you explain? Do you mean that by his actions and manoeuvres, Lai has drawn in more people to invest in S4A or has increased the value of its holdings (surely not).

I think he means there's been a 10% increase in small shareholders joining S4A. To the best of my knowledge membership of S4A is not obligatory for small shareholders.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on September 24, 2022, 09:37:28 AM
I think he means there's been a 10% increase in small shareholders joining S4A. To the best of my knowledge membership of S4A is not obligatory for small shareholders.

Thanks for the clarification
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 24, 2022, 10:01:36 AM
I know and I am certainly not suggesting otherwise. I would be interested to see any articles suggesting this though.

I would have thought that the FA would have exercised full provenance checks on the funds used to purchase the shares to be honest.

As in a 'fit and proper person's test'?..........  supporters at a number of clubs may question the value of the paper they're written on before taking appropriate action and flushing them down the loo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 24, 2022, 11:05:11 AM
I reckon he was sold the club on staying in the Premier league for say 10 years
He would be happy I imagine, doing nothing and putting no more money in, just taking 20%  of a potential 100 million prem payments hanging on for say 10 years then he's got his money back then sells
Clever accounting could do that for him, problem is we're not in the pre
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 24, 2022, 11:55:01 AM
Quite an old (but still relevant) article on why you wouldn't want to own a football club.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26365955 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26365955)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 24, 2022, 02:06:01 PM
If I bought shares in WBA, how much are they if available?
Would I get any freebies as a shareholder, priority booking, reductions in shop, cheaper tickets ets?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 24, 2022, 04:09:05 PM
If I bought shares in WBA, how much are they if available?
Would I get any freebies as a shareholder, priority booking, reductions in shop, cheaper tickets ets?

I doubt you would get any preference as club IPO'd long ago and the sale price will be whatever you can convince a holder to sell their share for as not publicly traded. Search Shareholders 4 Albion and they can help you locate potential sellers mate.

Personally if I had a share currently I'd be looking to sell so you might be in luck
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 24, 2022, 04:12:26 PM
If I bought shares in WBA, how much are they if available?
Would I get any freebies as a shareholder, priority booking, reductions in shop, cheaper tickets ets?

If you buy enough you get free tickets to every game for you and your guests, access to interest free loans and an office.

On a serious note I don’t believe you get anything as an individual shareholder. I suspect you’d need a ‘significant’ shareholding to be entitled to anything.

S4A say there are 9600 shares approxminately. The loan in the last set of accounts valued us at around £85m and I suspect that’s no lower. It does suggest a top price of £8,800 per share though but you could make an argument the shares are also worthless  so I think you’d get one for much less.

You can also see why many S4A wanted Lai to buy theirs when his transaction with Peace valued them at over £20k each!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on September 24, 2022, 06:05:47 PM
There used to be benefits to being a shareholder, including a shareholders lounge in the Halfords Lane stand and ticket priority. Peace got rid of all fringe benefits, and moved the AGM from the Hawthorns to London. I'm sure it was all designed to make shareholders more likely to sell up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on October 01, 2022, 05:17:15 PM
Whilst this guy is still holding the reins we are only going in one direction!!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on October 01, 2022, 06:36:36 PM
Couldn’t go last week to the friendly it would have killed me to remember what we were not so long ago
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on October 01, 2022, 10:21:28 PM
Whilst this guy is still holding the reins we are only going in one direction!!!
Yep! Another million or so valuation less due to today’s result  Stick or twist? It doesn’t matter. He’s screwed. We’re screwed. Only one person having a laugh.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on October 02, 2022, 10:30:13 AM
Dear Guochuan Lai

I do hope someone visits this forum on your behalf, because we supporters truly love our historic football club. I am sure you are generally a savvy businessman and you are smarting and worried about your investment turning sour. So in a way we have a common ground, albeit for different reasons. We want your investment to be a positive one as much as you do.

You have been badly served and badly advised throughout your tenure by incompetent executives and managers. But Ron Gourlay and Steve Bruce have set the bar very low, a new standard in clueless operating that will see us next season in League One and your investment diminishing rapidly if you do nothing.

PLEASE act now. Sack Gourlay and Bruce TODAY and help to stop the rot.

There are enough good players in our squad to see us turn this around, but it needs fresh thinking and a younger football brain guiding them to success. If you want proof of how good our players can be you only have to look at how they tend to flourish when they leave us for another club.

YOU can turn this around for us all. PLEASE do so.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 02, 2022, 10:49:13 AM
Dear Guochuan Lai

I do hope someone visits this forum on your behalf, because we supporters truly love our historic football club. I am sure you are generally a savvy businessman and you are smarting and worried about your investment turning sour. So in a way we have a common ground, albeit for different reasons. We want your investment to be a positive one as much as you do.

You have been badly served and badly advised throughout your tenure by incompetent executives and managers. But Ron Gourlay and Steve Bruce have set the bar very low, a new standard in clueless operating that will see us next season in League One and your investment diminishing rapidly if you do nothing.

PLEASE act now. Sack Gourlay and Bruce TODAY and help to stop the rot.

There are enough good players in our squad to see us turn this around, but it needs fresh thinking and a younger football brain guiding them to success. If you want proof of how good our players can be you only have to look at how they tend to flourish when they leave us for another club.

YOU can turn this around for us all. PLEASE do so.

Nice idea but who is he going to replace them with? [rhetorical question]

Gourlay is hardly surrounded by folk with football 'know how', in fact it is just him and Bruce

RG could redeem himself by growing a pair and doing the right thing, that would go down well.

To be honest I think the programme sellers have more knowledge of the game than the club at the moment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on October 02, 2022, 11:01:37 AM
To be honest I think the programme sellers have more knowledge of the game than the club at the moment.

Reckon you're right.  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on October 02, 2022, 12:24:45 PM
Nice idea but who is he going to replace them with? [rhetorical question]

Gourlay is hardly surrounded by folk with football 'know how', in fact it is just him and Bruce

RG could redeem himself by growing a pair and doing the right thing, that would go down well.

To be honest I think the programme sellers have more knowledge of the game than the club at the moment.

The point being Gourlay chose Bruce to provide the wealth of football experience he himself lacks along with no one else at time of posting,  despite having been institu for some time now, while smugly telling all and sundry he's been in the game long enough to know what he's doing and how to go about it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on October 03, 2022, 09:43:02 AM
the club is spiraling out of control, it doesn't get anymore of my money for the foreseeable, i spent more in the club shop than anyone i know, i have enough clothes to last me for years. i am gutted i don't get an urge to travel to games anymore
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 05, 2022, 08:59:05 PM
Lai sat somewhere in China engaging in classic investor self-deception "It's not a loss unless i actually sell"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on October 05, 2022, 09:05:38 PM
Wonder how long until Lai has to sell? League one?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 05, 2022, 09:08:13 PM
Wonder how long until Lai has to sell? League one?


I don't think he has the foggiest himself.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on October 05, 2022, 10:08:57 PM
Laughing at all of the money he is going to lose.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mr multivac on October 05, 2022, 10:09:55 PM
How’s this bloke a successful businessman as far as I can see all he’s doing is a good impression of both leads in dumber and dumber
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbako on October 05, 2022, 10:27:01 PM
Everything that is going wrong with this club starts with this parasite. I'd genuinely rather be watching the club I love in non-league free of this cancer than where we are now with him in charge. It's high time that we all stand up to this thief.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on October 05, 2022, 10:35:01 PM
Yes, he's an absolute stain on our club. His tenure has been a horrible time on the whole. What a nightmare
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on October 05, 2022, 10:36:00 PM
Interesting listening to HRK after tonight’s match
He lays the blame firmly at the owner, it sounds like he really wanted to say more regarding this but the normal sky commentators and hosts are just focused on old potato head
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on October 06, 2022, 12:28:18 AM
Interesting listening to HRK after tonight’s match
He lays the blame firmly at the owner, it sounds like he really wanted to say more regarding this but the normal sky commentators and hosts are just focused on old potato head

HRK is quite articulate and unlike most players may be suited to a more board room style job than the usual coaching.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 06, 2022, 01:17:20 AM
The point being Gourlay chose Bruce to provide the wealth of football experience he himself lacks along with no one else at time of posting,  despite having been institu for some time now, while smugly telling all and sundry he's been in the game long enough to know what he's doing and how to go about it.

But was it really for his wealth of football experience or, Bruce having been the blose and vile manager, was it because he wanted his knowledge of local restaurants.

Gourlay (first interview question):  you look like you know your food Steve?

(Steve, not partial to anything little normally, is a little offended and thinks you can talk and bites his tongue (no he wasn't trying to eat it) and imagines a big bag of cash which has payoff number 12 written on it).


Gourlay: Do you know of this mythical local  restaurant where Tom Watson ate his 2 curries in one evening Steve?"

Bruce: McDonald's.

Gourlay: I don't think so Steve.

Bruce: KFC.

Gourlay: No.

Bruce: Greggs, Burger King, Pret.

Gourlay: No, No and No. I'm not sure you're right for this (sausage) role.

Bruce: Can I phone a friend.

Gourlay: Yes, but hurry up I'm starving.

Bruce: Hello, Al it's dada have you been breast fed son?

Alex: No, Dada you're not here to let me do it.

Bruce: Sorry son I forgot. Anyway Mr Gourlay's hungry so I have to hurry. Which restaurant did Tom Watson eat 2 curries whilst plotting with Gordon Brown?

Alex: Wait there dada I'll ask Mummy...she doesn't know dada.

Bruce: don't worry about it Al.  Don't forget to keep throwing those balls around in the garden son like you do in the pre match warm ups and you'll have a job for life.

Bruce: Can I ask Aggers and Clemo?

Gourlay: Yes, but hurry greggs is closing soon.

Bruce: Aggers do you know.......?

Aggers: Boss I know what you tell me I know boss. Do I know boss?

Bruce: Clemo, do you know....?

Clemo: Is it the Belfry boss?

Ghoulish: No, no, not that Tom Watson. OK, OK. Enough is enough (something Ron never usually says). I'll give you all 18 months to find out.





Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on October 06, 2022, 03:48:12 AM
if he had any clue of what he was doing he would have fired Ron and Bruce by now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on October 06, 2022, 07:05:38 AM
Wakey wakey China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Critical Baggie on October 06, 2022, 07:29:00 AM
The good times will never return until this imposter of an owner/ controlling shareholder/ whatever he is has gone. And the depressing thing is the further we sink, the lesser chance that’s going to happen.

The ironic thing is if this type of incompetence would ever happen to a Chinese business, the authorities would of probably seized it.

The only person who could undo this would be JP buying us back but next to zero chance of it ever happening.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on October 06, 2022, 07:41:47 AM
Even though he has lost a fortune, his money is probably safer in the club than if he were to sell and take the money into China. He may never see any of it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on October 06, 2022, 11:13:44 AM
Has anyone checked to see if Lai is connected to Fosun Group?  Surely the only explanation for his continued destruction of our club is that he is an agent of the Dog Heads sent in to bring us down?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on October 06, 2022, 11:18:12 AM
Has anyone checked to see if Lai is connected to Fosun Group?  Surely the only explanation for his continued destruction of our club is that he is an agent of the Dog Heads sent in to bring us down?

Funny you should mention this. Henry Pu (I kid you not with the surname) is our current Finance Director. Formerly an employee of both Wolves and Fosun.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: chonobaggie on October 06, 2022, 11:33:06 AM
From Hal Robson Kanu on Twitter.

It is always a pleasure working with @SkySports and last night I was covering the @pnefc v @WBA game at Deepdale. It was cold, so I’m bringing some of that coldness into this football thread below 👇

@WBA slumped to another defeat, having won 1 game in 12 league games so far this season, falling into the relegation zone. Fans have been calling for the manager to be sacked, and calling out the players - but feel like they aren’t being listened to.

I agree with them. But in a situation like this, we need to zoom out to understand the true nature of the accountability period. Let's remove emotion and incorporate a 360-degree view to identify the root issues.

18 months ago the team were relegated from the @premierleague. The owners decided to sack a manager who had delivered success (and $$$) to the club, hours after a 1-1 draw with then champions @ManCity.

Such an early change had removed any momentum that the group of players had. The season continued under new management, traction wasn't achieved and relegation followed. Following relegation, the owners decided that investment into the team wasn't required.

Key players were lost (without replacing them with significant signings) with money diverted away from the pitch and the fans. Now the club sits in the bottom 3 of the Championship in October, with a group of players, coaches, and a manager who are giving their all.

But the root cause and the value driver for change isn't down to any of them. Success or failure always starts at the top, and so should accountability.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on October 06, 2022, 11:36:04 AM
Funny you should mention this. Henry Pu (I kid you not with the surname) is our current Finance Director. Formerly an employee of both Wolves and Fosun.

That's that, then. Lai is an agent of D.I.N.G.L.E. (Dastardly International Nefarious Group of Lowlife Eejits)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: South West Steve on October 06, 2022, 01:44:54 PM
赖国川,滚出WBA足球俱乐部。你是在给自己和更广大的中国人民丢脸

Lài guóchuān, gǔn chū WBA zúqiú jùlèbù. Nǐ shì zài jǐ zìjǐ hé gèng guǎngdà de zhōngguó rénmín diūliǎn


(Guochuan Lai, get out of the WBA Football Club. You are dishonouring both yourself and the wider Chinese people, please save face.)


I've taken to Google Translate into Mandarin I'm so hacked off. I'm sure he won't read it here but makes me feel better. Going to try other social media platforms next. 😉
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 06, 2022, 01:46:23 PM
赖国川,滚出WBA足球俱乐部。你是在给自己和更广大的中国人民丢脸

Lài guóchuān, gǔn chū WBA zúqiú jùlèbù. Nǐ shì zài jǐ zìjǐ hé gèng guǎngdà de zhōngguó rénmín diūliǎn


(Guochuan Lai, get out of the WBA Football Club. You are dishonouring both yourself and the wider Chinese people, please save face.)


I've taken to Google Translate into Mandarin I'm so hacked off. I'm sure he won't read it here but makes me feel better. Going to try other social media platforms next. 😉

20 minutes Steve, do you want prawn crackers with that?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on October 06, 2022, 04:01:08 PM
https://twitter.com/AhmedShooble/status/1578032404635131904

Bournemouth are just about to be sold for a reported 120 million !

Lai really did over pay on us !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on October 06, 2022, 04:03:02 PM
https://twitter.com/AhmedShooble/status/1578032404635131904

Bournemouth are just about to be sold for a reported 120 million !

Lai really did over pay on us !
you could buy the whole town for less than that!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on October 06, 2022, 04:11:07 PM
It was always a worry that whoever buying us was so clearly going to be making a terrible business decision that it immediately called question on their competency. The clubs entire worth was valued around bringing in TV money, and unless you are one of a select few megaclubs who never get relegated you have to have mega wealthy owners putting their money in or at some point you will get relegated. Coming in trying to run the club like he did was always going to end in failure at some stage or another.

Basically every club in the premier league is now bankrolled by the owner, if you want to do what Lai did and buy a premier league club without putting your own resources into it you need to be working smarter than the rest to make up for the financial shortfall. Instead we have one of the most outdated set ups in English football and he's had numerous people take advantage of his lack of knowledge leading us to be a gravy train for slimy "football man" types.

It's really difficult to see where he goes from here because the clubs value is only going to dwindle a lot from this point, and the longer he stays the more it will depreciate. To get even close to what he paid back he'd need to get us promoted and then keep us there for at least a few seasons, and there's no chance of doing that while we are stuck 20 years behind every other club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on October 06, 2022, 04:20:52 PM
After sacking Ron, I would go cap in hand to Mark Jenkins and ask him to return to the club as CEO and ask him to name his own price for doing so.

I'm pretty sure, however, he would refuse the offer as he knows what a hopeless basket case of a club we are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on October 06, 2022, 11:58:57 PM
After sacking Ron, I would go cap in hand to Mark Jenkins and ask him to return to the club as CEO and ask him to name his own price for doing so.

I'm pretty sure, however, he would refuse the offer as he knows what a hopeless basket case of a club we are.

It is irrelevant which suit is in charge if the budget is the same. You get what you pay for.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on October 07, 2022, 06:06:00 AM
From Hal Robson Kanu on Twitter.

It is always a pleasure working with @SkySports and last night I was covering the @pnefc v @WBA game at Deepdale. It was cold, so I’m bringing some of that coldness into this football thread below 👇

@WBA slumped to another defeat, having won 1 game in 12 league games so far this season, falling into the relegation zone. Fans have been calling for the manager to be sacked, and calling out the players - but feel like they aren’t being listened to.

I agree with them. But in a situation like this, we need to zoom out to understand the true nature of the accountability period. Let's remove emotion and incorporate a 360-degree view to identify the root issues.

18 months ago the team were relegated from the @premierleague. The owners decided to sack a manager who had delivered success (and $$$) to the club, hours after a 1-1 draw with then champions @ManCity.

Such an early change had removed any momentum that the group of players had. The season continued under new management, traction wasn't achieved and relegation followed. Following relegation, the owners decided that investment into the team wasn't required.

Key players were lost (without replacing them with significant signings) with money diverted away from the pitch and the fans. Now the club sits in the bottom 3 of the Championship in October, with a group of players, coaches, and a manager who are giving their all.

But the root cause and the value driver for change isn't down to any of them. Success or failure always starts at the top, and so should accountability.

Pretty impassioned by HRK

I have to say that it is clear the problem is at the top, but I think Bruce has been an absolute failure also. I also wonder why any manager would want to manage us. Come to a club that will not invest any money at all, that has no football leadership and is heading down the drain.

We are well and truly on the way to becoming Coventry or Charlton, a club with a decent support base, decent ground size, but absolutely a basket case of a club.

If it continues I will be truly stunned if we could rescue the season and finish top half, I would think there is more chance of relegation than a top half finish. This owner has destroyed the joy that football is meant to bring fans and he doesn't give a damn about anything to do with the club except trying to save as much of his money as he can.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on October 07, 2022, 10:18:17 AM
Considering the relative sped he fired previous managers his patience with Bruce is baffling. If he is worried about the money to sack bruce then maybe we have come to a crossroads where to save a few pounds now he is willing to see his long term investment fall. This would be concerning because it would indicate that he is out of money and that is huge for even getting the loan paid back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on October 07, 2022, 10:35:21 AM
Considering the relative sped he fired previous managers his patience with Bruce is baffling. If he is worried about the money to sack bruce then maybe we have come to a crossroads where to save a few pounds now he is willing to see his long term investment fall. This would be concerning because it would indicate that he is out of money and that is huge for even getting the loan paid back.

Ron may have told him that bottom three is the new top three, everything's going to plan and we're going to storm the top two once our recently acquired veterans are up to speed. Don't panic Captain Mainwaring, everything will be fine  8) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mig on October 07, 2022, 10:37:04 AM
Pretty impassioned by HRK

I have to say that it is clear the problem is at the top, but I think Bruce has been an absolute failure also. I also wonder why any manager would want to manage us. Come to a club that will not invest any money at all, that has no football leadership and is heading down the drain.

We are well and truly on the way to becoming Coventry or Charlton, a club with a decent support base, decent ground size, but absolutely a basket case of a club.

If it continues I will be truly stunned if we could rescue the season and finish top half, I would think there is more chance of relegation than a top half finish. This owner has destroyed the joy that football is meant to bring fans and he doesn't give a damn about anything to do with the club except trying to save as much of his money as he can.

Interesting that both HRK and now Austin have said we should never have sacked Bilic when we did. I imagine that a fair few of the current group therefore feel the same. I get the players absolutely should work hard regardless of who the manager, but sadly I think that’s increasingly rare in the modern game. Goes to show just how important it is to have someone in charge who the players respect, something Lai and co. hugely underestimated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 07, 2022, 10:26:43 PM
Interesting video (highlighted by Chris Lepkowski on twitter) about the history of football in China.

Agree with CL's comments, it doesn't look good for WBA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rtgw2wiAMo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rtgw2wiAMo)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on October 07, 2022, 10:58:48 PM
Their aims and goals were fine. Where they messed up was trying to become Johnny Big Potatoes too soon. They built a roof without foundations or walls

Rather than buy into big established clubs (and even us) they should have adopted the Brentford model. Attract younger cast offs with potential from around the world who are better than their own to raise standards within the base level and take it from there.

Slowly slowly catchee monkey. That's not racist in this instance by the way. More an example of newly acquired wealth meeting arrogance and hubris. Unfortunately for us indirectly. They only needed to look to America in the 70s to know what not to do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 09, 2022, 12:31:55 AM

I remain perplexed at why people buy football clubs at the prices they do.  It makes no commercial sense.  Why pay nearly £200m (accepting that it included £40m of cash on the balance sheet) to buy a modest-sized Midlands football club which had been punching above its weight.  Where was the upside as an investment?

The excuse that it was a promotional platform for Lai’s Eco-towns in China doesn’t really stack up either.  Yunwai Sports has over 700 shareholders and they aren’t all associated with Lai’s Palm business.   All very odd indeed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on October 09, 2022, 08:46:56 AM
It’s called “greater fool theory” in my game.  It doesn’t matter what you buy or what you pay for it so long as there’s a greater fool who will pay a higher price.  Happens every few years.  Dot.com, crypto, NFTs etc are retail examples but there are plenty at the supposedly institutional level too…
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 09, 2022, 09:22:59 AM
I remain perplexed at why people buy football clubs at the prices they do.  It makes no commercial sense.  Why pay nearly £200m (accepting that it included £40m of cash on the balance sheet) to buy a modest-sized Midlands football club which had been punching above its weight.  Where was the upside as an investment?

The excuse that it was a promotional platform for Lai’s Eco-towns in China doesn’t really stack up either.  Yunwai Sports has over 700 shareholders and they aren’t all associated with Lai’s Palm business.   All very odd indeed.

There's a link to an article I posted (number 8343 on 7th oct) explaining the thinking behind China's football expansion programme.
There was enormous potential for Lai's Eco-Town expansion & football development.
I believe he was more interested in developing the academy model in China than the actual football club.
A year after our aquisition, there was a change of direction by the Chinese authorities, which left Lai high & dry.

Like you though, I find it astonishing that he would pay around £200 million for WBA Holdings, especially when the whole club was only valued at around £40 million by S4A.
I get that investors would pay a premium for shares in a company that had great potential, but 5 times it's valuation?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on October 09, 2022, 11:40:48 AM
The 40 million valuation was by peace when he was trying to squeeze the small shareholders out. This was never the true value of the club, just JP getting greedy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on October 09, 2022, 12:05:29 PM
The 40 million valuation was by peace when he was trying to squeeze the small shareholders out. This was never the true value of the club, just JP getting greedy.

And taking advantage if genuine fans in the process. Never ever forget folks, never forget.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 09, 2022, 12:05:40 PM
The 40 million valuation was by peace when he was trying to squeeze the small shareholders out. This was never the true value of the club, just JP getting greedy.

Correct.  A truer valuation for a (then) established medium-sized PL club operating at a small profit with no debt was more like £120m-£130m when Peace sold.  Plus the £40m cash on the balance sheet at the time which got added to the purchase price.  Lai overpaid by around 20-25%.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on October 09, 2022, 12:20:35 PM
Surely he has seen our results and position in the table and must intervene?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 09, 2022, 12:24:12 PM
Surely he has seen our results and position in the table and must intervene?

Only if there’s cash available to pay him off, which there clearly isn’t - at least until December - hopefully…
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on October 09, 2022, 12:38:48 PM
Even £120m was way too much. I asked the questions numerous times pre lai how you could buy us at that sort of money and make money and nobody could give any decent answer. In a closed prem yes, not with our ongoing realistic threat of relegation.

Lai’s only hope is to get smart to running a football club and fast. Otherwise he’s selling us in a few years for well under £30m.  Come the end of this season I think our value is probably under £50m.

Leaving Bruce in play doesn’t suggest he’s going to get smart any anytime soon though.

This season looked like all or nothing and given the state we are in, we look ****** for years to come.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tlms-p23 on October 09, 2022, 12:59:11 PM
Even £120m was way too much. I asked the questions numerous times pre lai how you could buy us at that sort of money and make money and nobody could give any decent answer. In a closed prem yes, not with our ongoing realistic threat of relegation.

Lai’s only hope is to get smart to running a football club and fast. Otherwise he’s selling us in a few years for well under £30m.  Come the end of this season I think our value is probably under £50m.

Leaving Bruce in play doesn’t suggest he’s going to get smart any anytime soon though.

This season looked like all or nothing and given the state we are in, we look ****** for years to come.

We’re ******* away every competitive advantage available to us. Parachute payments stop after this season (if you’re only in the Prem for one season, PP are 2yrs not 3) and profit skimmed off the top.

We will be a normal Championship club after this season. We will still owe x3 2.5m payments for Karlan Grant. Phillips, Bartley, Wallace, Swift, Yokuslu, Diangana will all be in contract (if any of them are on less than 15k a week I’d be surprised). Livermore and Zohore big earners also but out of contract in summer.

Can absolutely guarantee we cannot afford them all without parachute payments and an owner who doesn’t put in their own cash.

I’m amazed at the evaporation of urgency to get out of the league compared to even 9 months ago when we sacked Ismael while in the play offs. Likewise Moore 3 + 1/2 years ago.

Far more difficult days ahead if we continue sleepwalking and lowering standards like we are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 09, 2022, 01:01:07 PM
Even £120m was way too much. I asked the questions numerous times pre lai how you could buy us at that sort of money and make money and nobody could give any decent answer. In a closed prem yes, not with our ongoing realistic threat of relegation.

Lai’s only hope is to get smart to running a football club and fast. Otherwise he’s selling us in a few years for well under £30m.  Come the end of this season I think our value is probably under £50m.

Leaving Bruce in play doesn’t suggest he’s going to get smart any anytime soon though.

This season looked like all or nothing and given the state we are in, we look f****d for years to come.

I don’t think £120m was too much at all.  TV money was on the rise, we’d been making profits for several years (I think only Arsenal did likewise) and had no debt.  There’s a premium for buying any business which generates a positive investment return.  The chance of buying into a rising TV rights income without having to inject any money to the business made us far miss valuable than many similar-sized clubs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on October 09, 2022, 01:03:11 PM
We’re pi$$ing away every competitive advantage available to us. Parachute payments stop after this season (if you’re only in the Prem for one season, PP are 2yrs not 3) and profit skimmed off the top.

We will be a normal Championship club after this season. We will still owe x3 2.5m payments for Karlan Grant. Phillips, Bartley, Wallace, Swift, Yokuslu, Diangana will all be in contract (if any of them are on less than 15k a week I’d be surprised). Livermore and Zohore big earners also but out of contract in summer.

Can absolutely guarantee we cannot afford them all without parachute payments and an owner who doesn’t put in their own cash.

I’m amazed at the evaporation of urgency to get out of the league compared to even 9 months ago when we sacked Ismael while in the play offs. Likewise Moore 3 + 1/2 years ago.

Far more difficult days ahead if we continue sleepwalking and lowering standards like we are.

We'll be lucky to be that the way its going. We very much look like a relegation bound side under Bruce and appear to have no pressure on him.

Lai appears to have given up completely. Sacked previous managers for far less.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 09, 2022, 01:03:43 PM
We’re pi$$ing away every competitive advantage available to us. Parachute payments stop after this season (if you’re only in the Prem for one season, PP are 2yrs not 3) and profit skimmed off the top.

We will be a normal Championship club after this season. We will still owe x3 2.5m payments for Karlan Grant. Phillips, Bartley, Wallace, Swift, Yokuslu, Diangana will all be in contract (if any of them are on less than 15k a week I’d be surprised). Livermore and Zohore big earners also but out of contract in summer.

Can absolutely guarantee we cannot afford them all without parachute payments and an owner who doesn’t put in their own cash.

I’m amazed at the evaporation of urgency to get out of the league compared to even 9 months ago when we sacked Ismael while in the play offs. Likewise Moore 3 + 1/2 years ago.

Far more difficult days ahead if we continue sleepwalking and lowering standards like we are.

Diangana likely to have to be sold I suspect.  We are also owed a lot of money for Pereira but I suspect those installments will only cancel out what we still need to pay out for Grant.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on October 09, 2022, 01:07:25 PM
I don’t think £120m was too much at all.  TV money was on the rise, we’d been making profits for several years (I think only Arsenal did likewise) and had no debt.  There’s a premium for buying any business which generates a positive investment return.  The chance of buying into a rising TV rights income without having to inject any money to the business made us far miss valuable than many similar-sized clubs.

The profit was tiny. Our TV rights income was only ever guaranteed for 12 months as with our low revenue we started every premiership reason with the realistic prospect of relegation. The trick was to try to grow the size of the club but Peace was never going to commit to capital investment that would have affected his profit.  As for Lai, he's a joke, and the club unfortunately now is one of many many championship clubs, likely to be at this level for decades or worse We are the new Bolton, Blackburn, Reading, Boro, Birmingham.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 09, 2022, 01:21:38 PM
The profit was tiny. Our TV rights income was only ever guaranteed for 12 months as with our low revenue we started every premiership reason with the realistic prospect of relegation. The trick was to try to grow the size of the club but Peace was never going to commit to capital investment that would have affected his profit.  As for Lai, he's a joke, and the club unfortunately now is one of many many championship clubs, likely to be at this level for decades or worse We are the new Bolton, Blackburn, Reading, Boro, Birmingham.

The point is that all other PL clubs were making losses each year.  Peace wasn’t “cooking the books” because the accounting policies were consistent.  You can’t inflate profits consistently because it will always catch up with you.   That’s why Lai was able to say - as he did - that he wouldn’t be putting any funds into the club.  He certainly delivered on that!

Peace knew he couldn’t move the club forward as all his wealth was tied up in the shares.  He couldn’t inject funds.  All he could do was make it as attractive as possible for someone to buy by being a “steady” PL club.  That’s why Pulis was the man he needed.

The one crumb of comfort is that several clubs in recent years have been promoted without parachute funding. Good coaching and good recruitment with a good academy.  It can be done - but needs wholesale change.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 09, 2022, 02:07:54 PM
Any comments made on this forum at anytime suggesting anyone is or has been cooking books will be removed.

Do not put any suggestion or insinuations like this unless you have factual evidence to prove anything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 09, 2022, 02:57:30 PM
The 40 million valuation was by peace when he was trying to squeeze the small shareholders out. This was never the true value of the club, just JP getting greedy.


Also the market cap value doesn't reflect the true value of a business. Very normal for a business to sell for multiples of it's share price.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on October 09, 2022, 11:46:15 PM
you have to wonder what he is thinking, pulled the trigger on others much faster than this. Its almost like he has completely lost interest and has written his investment off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 10, 2022, 06:37:38 AM
you have to wonder what he is thinking, pulled the trigger on others much faster than this. Its almost like he has completely lost interest and has written his investment off.

I believe that to be the case  Holding in the hope of some miraculous return to the PL one day without realising the chance of it diminishes every year he holds us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on October 10, 2022, 08:59:32 AM
Maybe he hasn’t been the one to pull these trigger previously. He might have allowed Jenkins, Dowling, Williams, Ron etc to make those calls.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on October 10, 2022, 09:40:45 AM
Diangana likely to have to be sold I suspect.  We are also owed a lot of money for Pereira but I suspect those installments will only cancel out what we still need to pay out for Grant.
still got parachute payments coming for next season as club structured it over three seasons, so funds available.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 10, 2022, 09:43:10 AM
still got parachute payments coming for next season as club structured it over three seasons, so funds available.

Depends if Lai borrowed anymore last season i guess. THe rumoured spread budget could be for Lai to utilise not WBA. We will find out next year anyway!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on October 10, 2022, 09:48:42 AM
Depends if Lai borrowed anymore last season i guess. THe rumoured spread budget could be for Lai to utilise not WBA. We will find out next year anyway!
true, and when payments finally cease hopefully he goes bankrupt and someone can buy club at a price where they can invest in first team.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on October 10, 2022, 10:06:45 AM
Do we think Lai was involved in the bullet?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on October 10, 2022, 10:28:21 AM
Do we think Lai was involved in the bullet?
if he values his investment I’d say yes probably got Ron flying out to China as we speak to explain the mess he’s overseen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on October 10, 2022, 12:37:21 PM
I certainly wouldn't buy a football club, rarely do people make money when they sell.
It's an ego thing and in business that's usually a fatal decision
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on October 10, 2022, 01:07:39 PM
If he was involved in his sacking then its nice of him to turn up and show an interest in the club other than using it for paltry interest free loans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bazabaggie73 on October 16, 2022, 01:10:35 PM
On twitter a few people saying we're about to have new owners, ha have no idea if it's true and it's to do with the article in the daily mail yesterday regarding fairway trust in Jersey 🤷
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on October 16, 2022, 01:23:16 PM
On twitter a few people saying we're about to have new owners, ha have no idea if it's true and it's to do with the article in the daily mail yesterday regarding fairway trust in Jersey 🤷

I very much think it’s wishful thinking.

Maybe JP has come back for another go?   ;D

Edit: just had a look on twitter, it’s not coming from any reliable sources yet and the only thing that has actually been said is there is some movement at the top of the business. Could just well be the owner getting his house in order for a sale or he’s fed up with how the club is run and wanting to change thing up, who knows.

There was all that talk with things being set up in Jersey recently.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mister AT on October 16, 2022, 01:46:13 PM
I very much think it’s wishful thinking.

Maybe JP has come back for another go?   ;D

Edit: just had a look on twitter, it’s not coming from any reliable sources yet and the only thing that has actually been said is there is some movement at the top of the business. Could just well be the owner getting his house in order for a sale or he’s fed up with how the club is run and wanting to change thing up, who knows.

There was all that talk with things being set up in Jersey recently.

Yeah it’s come off the back of the daily mail article yesterday claiming there is a group that have dealings with us and have refused to speak to any of the shareholders etc. someone’s shared it and the usual “ITKs” have put 2 and 2 together and got 7
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on October 16, 2022, 02:05:28 PM
On twitter a few people saying we're about to have new owners, ha have no idea if it's true and it's to do with the article in the daily mail yesterday regarding fairway trust in Jersey 🤷

Interesting, here is the press story:

"West Bromwich shareholders are angry at the secrecy surrounding the club after being denied information about why those in charge have set up a new holding company, the Jersey-based Fairway Trust.

After numerous requests for information one shareholder contacted Fairway Trust managing director Mark Andrews, who told him the club had instructed them not to take calls from shareholders or fans.

Around 12 per cent of West Brom is still owned by 430 small shareholders, who have been left enraged by the financial mismanagement of owner Guochuan Lai, who has taken a £5m loan from the club and missed the repayment date."
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on October 16, 2022, 02:18:34 PM
You’d love it to be true and a takeover was happening but nothing from anybody I’d trust.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on October 16, 2022, 03:13:23 PM
If it’s a new holding company (holding Lai and his groups 88%) then in reality S4A are entitled to very little info.  S4A’s holding is in WBA group and it’s subsidiaries.

Whether it means some sort of takeover is happening, I doubt it personally. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on October 16, 2022, 08:32:12 PM
This is not new news. The addition of the Jersey company in the Albion corporate structure was covered in the 'Ron Gourlay' thread on 6 August. The only reason it has made the news now is someone has asked Fairway for a comment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on October 16, 2022, 08:58:22 PM
This is not new news. The addition of the Jersey company in the Albion corporate structure was covered in the 'Ron Gourlay' thread on 6 August. The only reason it has made the news now is someone has asked Fairway for a comment.

I’m not sure this is clear. The New Jersey company they came out a couple of months back was Wbafc holdings ltd.

So who are the ‘fairway trust’ and how do they fit in to it. Is this another jersey entitiy, has the newspaper just got it wrong? 

It all seems to be based off a very small piece in the press with very little detail.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on October 16, 2022, 09:37:59 PM
Fairway Trust / FGD 1 Limited are 'significant persons who is an Entity' in the Jersey based WBAFC Holdings Limited.

It is just a bit more detail about who constitutes WBAFC Holdings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on October 16, 2022, 09:47:50 PM
Fairway Trust / FGD 1 Limited are 'significant persons who is an Entity' in the Jersey based WBAFC Holdings Limited.

It is just a bit more detail about who constitutes WBAFC Holdings.

Thanks. Where has that come from? I can’t see much on the jersey company register, although I’m not used to it so I may be missing something.  Or has someone paid for some of the documents to establish this?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on October 16, 2022, 10:06:19 PM
Thanks. Where has that come from? I can’t see much on the jersey company register, although I’m not used to it so I may be missing something.  Or has someone paid for some of the documents to establish this?

Fairway administer the Jersey company and provide a Jersey director to the board, so they are deemed a “controller” of that company
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on October 16, 2022, 10:12:04 PM
Fairway administer the Jersey company and provide a Jersey director to the board, so they are deemed a “controller” of that company

So fairway are nothing more than and administrator / part of the vehicle in reality?
Sounds like talk of anything more at this stage is nonsense as suspected.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on October 16, 2022, 10:17:20 PM
More detail in points 34-40 in the first message in the link below.

https://wbaunofficial.org.uk/showthread.php?tid=25973
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 16, 2022, 10:46:44 PM
So fairway are nothing more than and administrator / part of the vehicle in reality?
Sounds like talk of anything more at this stage is nonsense as suspected.

It looks as though Fairway is a trust management company, & WBAFC Holdings is a trust.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on October 17, 2022, 10:09:28 AM
On twitter a few people saying we're about to have new owners, ha have no idea if it's true and it's to do with the article in the daily mail yesterday regarding fairway trust in Jersey 🤷

I'd have thought it more likely to have something to do with the loans than a takeover.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on October 18, 2022, 07:44:06 PM
Rumours now surfacing about the Bhatti’s taking over…  :-[
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on October 18, 2022, 09:31:04 PM
Rumours now surfacing about the Bhatti’s taking over…  :-[

Who what where and how?!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on October 18, 2022, 10:37:45 PM
The simple fact is Lai’s lack of association and connection with WBA has now bared it’s fruits. The restrictions and tightened regulations of China’s policies have certainly dictated any possibility of progressing under Lai’s tenure but regardless his lack of appetite is all too obvious.

Looking at this situation pragmatically, and with the recognition of not only China’s economic woes, but also the wider geopolitical outlook; it has to be a case of ‘Russian Roulette’ for Lai. He’s potentially months away from blowing 150mil….or with a crazy roll of the dice somehow being back in the game.

My guess would be he’s desperately looking for an ‘off ramp’; this could be both good and bad for WBA. We either get some ‘wide-boy’ chancers who form part of some opaque consortium, or we are lucky enough to have some serious business professionals who realise the potential of getting us back into the Prem.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 19, 2022, 09:46:38 AM
More detail in points 34-40 in the first message in the link below.

https://wbaunofficial.org.uk/showthread.php?tid=25973

This is worth a read, quite depressing really. Good questions that will never be answered.

We really are in a mess.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 19, 2022, 12:45:06 PM
Further to my earlier post, this is an interesting part:

We note that the highest paid director was paid £446,000 for 11 months compared
with £208,000 for the 13 month period ended 31 July 2020. This appears somewhat
strange given that an experienced CEO was replaced in post with an inexperienced
CEO and that Mark Jenkins has publicly stated that he was not being paid a bonus.


So we were paying £208,000 to a CEO who you could find at his desk in B70 almost daily, and his replacement more than doubled the salary and has hardly set foot in the place.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 19, 2022, 12:46:21 PM
Further to my earlier post, this is an interesting part:

We note that the highest paid director was paid £446,000 for 11 months compared
with £208,000 for the 13 month period ended 31 July 2020. This appears somewhat
strange given that an experienced CEO was replaced in post with an inexperienced
CEO and that Mark Jenkins has publicly stated that he was not being paid a bonus.


So we were paying £208,000 to a CEO who you could find at his desk in B70 almost daily, and his replacement more than doubled the salary and has hardly set foot in the place.......



We are a soft touch club, jheez
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 19, 2022, 12:49:32 PM


We are a soft touch club, jheez

Don't forget that the 'lifelong Albion Fan' was tickling us for £1m a year as well.........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 19, 2022, 12:50:31 PM
Don't forget that the 'lifelong Albion Fan' was tickling us for £1m a year as well.........


You can argue that as he was successful (reagrdless of his intentions) he could demand a decent payment but nearly half a million for picking your mate knowing he's useless???!?!?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on October 19, 2022, 12:58:09 PM
You could indeed, I think from memory he was the second highest earner in the Premier League behind Levy...... no surprise there
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on October 19, 2022, 01:01:56 PM
Don't forget that the 'lifelong Albion Fan' was tickling us for £1m a year as well.........

No I wasn't Clive  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 19, 2022, 01:02:00 PM
You could indeed, I think from memory he was the second highest earner in the Premier League behind Levy...... no surprise there


Not sure if S4A had the right to challenge him on deciding his own salary but many have seen their shares multiply in value so assume many were happy with their returns
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on October 19, 2022, 01:07:27 PM
Further to my earlier post, this is an interesting part:

We note that the highest paid director was paid £446,000 for 11 months compared
with £208,000 for the 13 month period ended 31 July 2020. This appears somewhat
strange given that an experienced CEO was replaced in post with an inexperienced
CEO and that Mark Jenkins has publicly stated that he was not being paid a bonus.


So we were paying £208,000 to a CEO who you could find at his desk in B70 almost daily, and his replacement more than doubled the salary and has hardly set foot in the place.......

PiYue Li was a director & chairman of the group at that time.

It might have been a clever question from s4a to identify him as the highest paid director.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on October 19, 2022, 05:52:47 PM
Don't forget that the 'lifelong Albion Fan' was tickling us for £1m a year as well.........

£1.95m in his last year. Shame he didn't use some of it to pay off his loan.

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/bumper-pay-rise-jeremy-peace-12532731

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on October 22, 2022, 05:16:05 PM
You might have to take a loss on this deal Lai  ;) :D

Just sell up and walk away. Otherwise it’s going to get very unappealing for you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on October 22, 2022, 05:17:37 PM
A stain on our club.


His ego is going to lose him even more money if he continues to own us. At some point his self-deception levels will break but what league will we be in by then?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on October 22, 2022, 05:25:08 PM
He’s got to sell surely. Wonder how much is left on the loan he took to take us over? He definitely couldn’t afford to pay the £200mill up front.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on October 22, 2022, 05:28:06 PM
I get the feeling he can't afford to walk away every bit as much as he can't afford to stay.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on October 22, 2022, 05:28:47 PM
I get the feeling he can't afford to walk away every bit as much as he can't afford to stay.

That’s what I think, if he owes over £100mill then how can he walk away?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 22, 2022, 05:34:29 PM
Clowns to the left of him, jokers to the right, he is stuck in the middle because he doesn't know which one he is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on October 22, 2022, 05:51:42 PM
That’s what I think, if he owes over £100mill then how can he walk away?

And if that is the case, why doesn't he make the effort to shore up his investment by doing some research himself?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on October 22, 2022, 06:12:04 PM
And if that is the case, why doesn't he make the effort to shore up his investment by doing some research himself?

We need money, the squad has been an aging one since Pulis days. We needed to refresh in the prem. Hes employed John Williams who was a disaster yet had a good prior reputation. Mark jenkins who did a good job but left, then Ken who isn’t experienced. Now he’s been lured in by the Chelsea and Man Utd links on Gourlay’s CV. Unfortunately he skipped the Reading chapter which is more similar to our position.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionFan on October 24, 2022, 09:28:44 PM
Chris Lepkowski tweeted

Re rumours about wba going into administration: I'd be surprised, though would be concern if they go down.  You'd only normal consider an administrator people are considering recovery action and as far as I'm aware that isn't the case at wba. Calm down
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ashdoy on November 01, 2022, 10:25:07 AM
Just thinking to myself out loud; when is due to pay back this loan? Was it December?

And realistically, how soon can we as fans find out? I presume this info will only be in accounts sheets when they are released so just trying to jump the gun and understand how quickly we as a fanbase can find that info out?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 01, 2022, 10:40:10 AM
Just thinking to myself out loud; when is due to pay back this loan? Was it December?

And realistically, how soon can we as fans find out? I presume this info will only be in accounts sheets when they are released so just trying to jump the gun and understand how quickly we as a fanbase can find that info out?

It is due to be paid on 31/12/22 Ash, Ron said he is fairly confident it will get paid.

Given the publicity it has received I would imagine that the club will fall over themselves to tell us it has been repaid. The press will certainly be all over it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 01, 2022, 10:43:41 AM
Just thinking to myself out loud; when is due to pay back this loan? Was it December?

And realistically, how soon can we as fans find out? I presume this info will only be in accounts sheets when they are released so just trying to jump the gun and understand how quickly we as a fanbase can find that info out?

As I understand it, he has promised to repay the loan BY 31 December 2022.

The first time evidence will be available (as opposed to being told by the club), will be in the accounts published in June 2024.

I think there are members of this forum, more knowledgeable than me on English Football League governance rules, but if the loan is not paid back, as promised, I suspect the EFL will be all over us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on November 01, 2022, 11:08:06 AM
As I understand it, he has promised to repay the loan BY 31 December 2022.

The first time evidence will be available (as opposed to being told by the club), will be in the accounts published in June 2024.

I think there are members of this forum, more knowledgeable than me on English Football League governance rules, but if the loan is not paid back, as promised, I suspect the EFL will be all over us.

The EFL have no say in the matter, he can leave the loan on the books for as long as he wants. If he defaults, he is not going to go after himself. More likely, they will take out an even bigger loan and use that to partially repay the £7m. You only have to look at the complex corporate structure, recent removal of covenants on ground, creation of trust and press story about a £25m loan to see that manoeuvres are afoot. It reminds me of the scene in Goodfellas when they take over the bar, get as much stuff on credit as they can and then burn it down before the insurance claim goes in. Our club is owned by a mysterious Chinese investment company, surrounded in secrecy in a Hong Kong listing, in a country overseen by a communist dictator that is masters of asset stripping and stealing technology and expertise from the West. It should never has been allowed to happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 01, 2022, 11:19:40 AM
The EFL have no say in the matter, he can leave the loan on the books for as long as he wants. If he defaults, he is not going to go after himself. More likely, they will take out an even bigger loan and use that to partially repay the £7m. You only have to look at the complex corporate structure, recent removal of covenants on ground, creation of trust and press story about a £25m loan to see that manoeuvres are afoot. It reminds me of the scene in Goodfellas when they take over the bar, get as much stuff on credit as they can and then burn it down before the insurance claim goes in. Our club is owned by a mysterious Chinese investment company, surrounded in secrecy in a Hong Kong listing, in a country overseen by a communist dictator that is masters of asset stripping and stealing technology and expertise from the West. It should never has been allowed to happen.

Well that’s cheered me up no end......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ronnie Allen on November 01, 2022, 12:31:25 PM
Chris Lepkowski tweeted

Re rumours about wba going into administration: I'd be surprised, though would be concern if they go down.  You'd only normal consider an administrator people are considering recovery action and as far as I'm aware that isn't the case at wba. Calm down

I’m all for staying calm but  we don’t yet know how Lai is going to square this circle. Will he invest in the club so that we’re able to go back to the EPL? Is that what this mooted £25m loan is about?
It may be and if so, good luck to him (and us)! If that’s the only way he can get money into the club then we’ll have suck up the repayments and hope our income can sustain the loan. I’d be interested to know what collateral will have been put against the loan.

An alternative is that he’s acting like a private equity investor loading the company with debt and monetising assets to get as much cash out of the club as he can.

The medium term consequence of that is administration and therein lies a whole new Baggies adventure.

PS. I’m a naturally pessimistic person, so if someone with more financial nous can tell me this is nonsense, there’ll be no hard feelings!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 01, 2022, 01:16:14 PM
I’m all for staying calm but  we don’t yet know how Lai is going to square this circle. Will he invest in the club so that we’re able to go back to the EPL? Is that what this mooted £25m loan is about?
It may be and if so, good luck to him (and us)! If that’s the only way he can get money into the club then we’ll have suck up the repayments and hope our income can sustain the loan. I’d be interested to know what collateral will have been put against the loan.

An alternative is that he’s acting like a private equity investor loading the company with debt and monetising assets to get as much cash out of the club as he can.

The medium term consequence of that is administration and therein lies a whole new Baggies adventure.

PS. I’m a naturally pessimistic person, so if someone with more financial nous can tell me this is nonsense, there’ll be no hard feelings!


Manouvering & manipulating funds is just "shifting the deckchairs on the Titanic".

What we need is an injection of funds from an additional investor. The size of that investment would probably mean that control passes to the new investor.
Lai might not be too happy with that, but I cannot see any other way he gets anything like his money back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on November 01, 2022, 03:38:30 PM
it makes you wonder how someone with such poor decision making ability has made it so big.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on November 01, 2022, 03:56:11 PM
it makes you wonder how someone with such poor decision making ability has made it so big.

He must have bought some step ladders back in the day  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 01, 2022, 04:58:30 PM
it makes you wonder how someone with such poor decision making ability has made it so big.

Decision making tends to be easier when you know your product.

Just watching this "Sunderland till I die" series on netflix. The two guys who bought Sunderland really knew what they were doing, especially Charlie Methven.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on November 01, 2022, 05:09:20 PM

Manouvering & manipulating funds is just "shifting the deckchairs on the Titanic".

What we need is an injection of funds from an additional investor. The size of that investment would probably mean that control passes to the new investor.
Lai might not be too happy with that, but I cannot see any other way he gets anything like his money back.

 I cannot in all honesty see this happening. I agree that additional funds are required and a new investor would be ideal. As you point out that investor would want a controlling number of shares, ie 51% of them. If Lai is seeking to get all of his money back then he would be looking for £120m+ for those controlling shares, [leaving him with 37%]. The entire club is probably worth half that at the moment so we need to find a bigger mug than Lai.

The only way this would work would be for Lai to accept a much lower amount with some promise of greater returns in the future for his remaining shares based on the success of the club, and that would have to involve success in Europe. We all know that is not going to happen any time soon. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on November 01, 2022, 06:17:09 PM
it makes you wonder how someone with such poor decision making ability has made it so big.

There's a long history of successful people failing with football clubs. Off the top of my head, the Venky's were incredibly wealthy in India yet Blackburn have never recovered from their handling of the club. Similarly, Simon Jordan was a self made millionaire who lost it all with Palace.

I think what's important to realize is that just because you're hugely successful in one domain, it doesn't always translate to others - and football ownership is notoriously tough. For instance, Mark Zuckerberg could lose billions trying to crack the restaurant industry. It's very different from what he knows.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 02, 2022, 11:54:35 AM
Confirmed in Brum Mail today that S4A have officially applied for Hawthorns to be listed as an ACV, the club have backed this apparently. I know it stops Lai selling the ground easily but can he still lend it against it? Not a clue on ACV stuff.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 02, 2022, 12:09:05 PM
Confirmed in Brum Mail today that S4A have officially applied for Hawthorns to be listed as an ACV, the club have backed this apparently. I know it stops Lai selling the ground easily but can he still lend it against it? Not a clue on ACV stuff.

Think the key word here Gaz is easily, he could still sell the Hawthorns, it would just be a bit more conditional.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on November 02, 2022, 12:12:48 PM
Think the key word here Gaz is easily, he could still sell the Hawthorns, it would just be a bit more conditional.

My understand is if an ACV is put on The Hawthorns then Lai can still sell the ground but he would have to give the community first chance to buy it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on November 02, 2022, 12:13:10 PM
Think the key word here Gaz is easily, he could still sell the Hawthorns, it would just be a bit more conditional.

Thanks John, as i feared.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on November 02, 2022, 02:19:37 PM
My understand is if an ACV is put on The Hawthorns then Lai can still sell the ground but he would have to give the community first chance to buy it.

I think that's right, or he could still sell it, provided it didn't have a change of use, so it's still available as a community asset.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 07, 2022, 01:45:23 PM
Liverpool up for sale. I wonder if lai will sell us and buy them?I live in hope. :P
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on November 07, 2022, 01:56:48 PM
Liverpool up for sale. I wonder if lai will sell us and buy them?I live in hope. :P
probably be cheaper in todays climate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on November 07, 2022, 03:18:06 PM
Liverpool up for sale. I wonder if lai will sell us and buy them?I live in hope. :P

Off topic somewhat but it looks like FSG are more likely to keep control but are open to third party shareholders investing cash into them, rather than an outright sale.

As for Lai, we are stuck with him, as nobody is going to give him his money back, and he will look to get money out of the club, piece meal to service his investors club. The quickest way to get rid of him was to get the club relegated ironically. Whilst we still have some cashflow there is no escape.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on November 11, 2022, 02:19:52 PM
Since he does not turn up at games, runs the club behind a closed door and probably just wants to be rid of us. What is a protest going to do during the game? Unless someone comes forward with a plan and money he won't go anywhere.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on November 11, 2022, 10:49:55 PM
Since he does not turn up at games, runs the club behind a closed door and probably just wants to be rid of us. What is a protest going to do during the game? Unless someone comes forward with a plan and money he won't go anywhere.
It’s trying to create an awareness to everyone. And the only way is through the media. The football community just look at the League table, see we’re not doing so well, but don’t know why. We know why. A small group are trying to educate others about our plight.Whether anyone takes notice, who knows? I’m certainly educating the expat’s on my patch. We all have to make a noise. That’s all we can do.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on November 30, 2022, 02:39:28 PM
Amongst all the World Cup hoo-ha, I'm crossing my fingers about the ability as well as the willingness of our chairman to pay back his loans from WBA.

President (for Life) Xi's tightening of regulations regarding real estate has had a profound effect on China's real estate billionaires.  Twenty years ago, they made up 50% of China's rich list.  Last year they were only 10%.  I'm wondering if among those who have slipped off the list is Guochuan Lai whose holdings are in landscape development and construction
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionfan1983 on December 01, 2022, 04:00:45 PM
Keep putting on the pressure on this
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 05, 2022, 07:28:33 AM
Anyone else have a 31 day Advent calendar this year?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on December 14, 2022, 11:07:24 AM
Just waiting for the cheque to clear  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on December 14, 2022, 11:12:53 AM

... or bounce
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 14, 2022, 03:22:39 PM
... or bounce

Surely, you mean Boing, Boing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 14, 2022, 03:27:49 PM
17 days left to pay i believe or our Lai is not a man of his word.  :-X
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 16, 2022, 09:24:58 AM
Percy has just put up an article around Lai and the mess he's got us in but nothing majorly new in there.

Says no sign of our honourable chairman sticking to his word regarding paying back the loan despite pleas from those in charge here in the UK. Still had 2 weeks so maybe he's holding on.

Says a 100m offer was turned down for club some years back and someone was going to offer 50m for us in the EFL but told not to bother.


Edit - He also confirms club should report profit for end of last season as I stated previously. This club will be run to show a profit at end of every season. What league it is in will be secondary.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on December 16, 2022, 09:54:48 AM
Telegraph/Percy article:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/12/16/how-west-brom-became-club-decline/

West Bromwich Albion are finally moving up the Championship table, but they remain a club in a state of paralysis and desperately needing new ownership.

While Carlos Corberan has guided Albion out of the relegation zone with four successive wins there are growing fears over what the future holds under Guochuan Lai, their absent majority shareholder.

With £10 million owed in loans, cash running out and no sign of investment, next year is likely to be a crucial period for this historic old club, relegated from the Premier League in 2021. Supporters are becoming increasingly frustrated, with protests at recent home matches.

Corberan, 39, has injected some positivity into a season which was threatening to go south, and West Brom face Rotherham on Saturday only eight points adrift of the play-off positions. Yet, off the field, the complex ownership and concerns over dwindling finances remain.

Sir Alex Ferguson once claimed that a young manager’s first priority should be to find a good chairman – but Corberan will struggle to track down Lai, a Chinese entrepreneur who has attended only one game in nearly four years.

The time has come, surely, for Lai to walk away. Albion need fresh impetus, direction and a clear plan for the future.

Lai completed his takeover in September 2016, buying the club from Jeremy Peace for around £200 million. At that time, West Brom were stable in the Premier League and, despite the outside perception of being a “yo-yo club”, had been in the top flight since 2010. It became clear after six months that no serious investment would be forthcoming and self-sustainability was the business model.

The widely held view is that Lai, essentially a decent man, has got in way over his head. Even in the Premier League, finances have been limited despite the huge riches of television deals.

Relegation in 2018 has sparked this capricious period in the club’s recent history, with promotion under Slaven Bilic two years later and then another relegation the following season.

It was in those final months of the 2020/21 season when Lai took £4.95 million out of the club to help his other company, Wisdom Smart Corporation Limited, through the Covid-19 pandemic. He is still to repay it, missing a September 2021 deadline, and fans are demanding answers.

The rescheduled deadline is now the end of December and it is understood that Albion officials based in England have repeatedly stressed the importance of the loan being paid back.

With just over two weeks left in the month, those pleas have still gone unanswered. At the moment, major signings in the January transfer window are unlikely.

Lai’s borrowing takes the total amount of loans owed to £10 million – including a loan from the club to Peace’s company WBA Holdings Ltd which now stands at £5m after interest. A further £2m was taken out in September last year, with Lai borrowing money from an independent lender that is not owed to the club.

Fans are angry and bewildered. Protests have been staged in the 12th minute at two home games this season, with a group called Action for Albion set up to highlight concerns over the ownership.

West Brom insist the club is not for sale, and previous attempts to strike a deal with Lai have been unsuccessful. Two years ago, West Brom received a written offer worth around £100 million from a blue-chip investor based in the United States. It was turned down immediately, with the valuation nearer £175 million.

Earlier this season the same group, with links to a former Premier League chief executive, inquired about a £50 million purchase and were told not to bother.

Despite the scrutiny on Albion’s ownership, their next financial accounts for 2021/22 will report a small profit for the second successive year. Ron Gourlay, the chief executive, is under pressure from fans but the football club is currently being run prudently and efficiently. Gourlay is an easy target but only because he is the sole public figure.

There is a good atmosphere and sense of togetherness at both the Hawthorns and the club’s training ground. The club is improving and there is a determination to protect it.

Yet with parachute payments running out at the end of this season, trouble is ahead. Players on high wages, including Jake Livermore and Kenneth Zohore, will be out of contract in the summer, but another campaign in the Championship will present financial difficulties.

The threat of administration has been firmly ruled out, yet Lai’s previous dependence on Premier League revenue will no longer be an option. Albion still owe Huddersfield Town £7.5 million for the transfer of striker Karlan Grant – which will be paid in instalments over the next three years – and the lack of investment is a major concern.

If Lai is unwilling or unable to provide cash, alternative finance will have to be considered. A potential loan from MSD Holdings Ltd, the American investment group owned by Michael Dell, is under consideration.

This is not uncommon in English football, with Southampton, Burnley and Derby County all borrowing money from the firm in recent years, but it is still far from ideal. Interest rates could be over 15 per cent.

It seems there are fewer alternatives, aside from Lai selling up or Corberan continuing his impressive start by leading the club to promotion. Corberan guided Huddersfield to the play-off final last season, losing to Nottingham Forest, before leaving to take over at Greek champions Olympiakos.

He was sacked after just 48 days following a poor start to the season, but made a swift return to English football with West Brom in October.

It is understood that some players were initially concerned that Corberan’s training methods and high-energy football would be too similar to Valerien Ismael, who was dismissed after seven months last season.

Yet the Spaniard has proved a popular appointment and the improvement since Steve Bruce’s departure has been tangible.

Against Sunderland on Monday night, Corberan changed the game by switching to a back-three while both substitutes – Tom Rogic and Daryl Dike – scored.

Albion will be targeting a fifth successive victory this weekend against Rotherham, which would be their longest sequence of wins since 2019 under Bilic. The dark clouds have been temporarily lifted, but another storm may not be far away.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on December 16, 2022, 11:34:43 AM
The part about loan to Peace’s company is a little misleading. That’s now Lai’s debt too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 16, 2022, 12:18:40 PM

It's been suggested on twitter that this is a briefing from RG, but,IMO, it's a briefing from S4A, in an attempt to get a statement from the club about the loans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on December 16, 2022, 12:43:36 PM
I don't see any hope of change unless Lai is willing to sell for less. On another note we have to go up this season otherwise its a financial disaster and yet Gourlay persisted with Bruce....Makes no sense at all!

It is understood that some players were initially concerned that Corberan’s training methods and high-energy football would be too similar to Valerien Ismael, who was dismissed after seven months last season.

No guess work as to which players had these concerns...
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 16, 2022, 12:44:46 PM
I don't see any hope of change unless Lai is willing to sell for less. On another note we have to go up this season otherwise its a financial disaster and yet Gourlay persisted with Bruce....Makes no sense at all!

It is understood that some players were initially concerned that Corberan’s training methods and high-energy football would be too similar to Valerien Ismael, who was dismissed after seven months last season.

No guess work as to which players had these concerns...


The ones waiting for their retirement extensions most likely.



Are there any protests lined up for tomorrow does anyone know?


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on December 16, 2022, 01:02:01 PM

The ones waiting for their retirement extensions most likely.



Are there any protests lined up for tomorrow does anyone know?

Just a small one, set for twelfth minute of second half. Waste of time in my view as it achieves nothing. I’m just looking forward to the game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 16, 2022, 01:02:52 PM
Just a small one, set for twelfth minute of second half. Waste of time in my view as it achieves nothing. I’m just looking forward to the game.

Thanks for the information.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 16, 2022, 01:35:36 PM
I don't see any hope of change unless Lai is willing to sell for less. On another note we have to go up this season otherwise its a financial disaster and yet Gourlay persisted with Bruce....Makes no sense at all!

It is understood that some players were initially concerned that Corberan’s training methods and high-energy football would be too similar to Valerien Ismael, who was dismissed after seven months last season.

No guess work as to which players had these concerns...

When he says "it is understood" he means, "there is a rumour", so it might be that no players had any concerns.
IMO, this has all the hallmarks of a S4A briefing, personally, I'm happy to wait & see.
In any case, it's highly unlikely that we'll hear if the "loans" have been paid back until after the January transfer window closes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on December 16, 2022, 02:29:40 PM
I don't see any hope of change unless Lai is willing to sell for less. On another note we have to go up this season otherwise its a financial disaster and yet Gourlay persisted with Bruce....Makes no sense at all!

It is understood that some players were initially concerned that Corberan’s training methods and high-energy football would be too similar to Valerien Ismael, who was dismissed after seven months last season.

No guess work as to which players had these concerns...

Not sure what their problem is!. They are well paid professionals get on with it!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on December 22, 2022, 06:01:36 PM
Can't see his £5 million loan being paid this month.  More chance of Zohore being the Championship top scorer this season !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ttree30 on December 23, 2022, 12:10:19 AM
I’m trying to think of a word that truly captures the essence of this owner’s proprietorship of our club.

“Disaster” doesn’t quite encompass the profound, depressing, dismal totality of the catastrophe he’s visited upon the Albion.

It will likely be a very hard road indeed for the club to recover from this. Albion are clearly facing an increasing financial crisis, have a lot of liabilities and far too few assets on the playing staff, and are currently stuck in the bottom half of the Championship.

The outlook is bleak to say the least. The foundations are now so shaky that it is very possible there is worse to come.

What a total disgrace. And we, the fans, are the victims - because we love our club unconditionally and will always care because we have nowhere else to go.

Unlike the owner and the players.

Anyone got any better words to sum up the regime of this incompetent fool?



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 23, 2022, 12:16:00 AM
TTree in the politest words I could say about the man I'd say a chancer who was, is and always been out of his depth.

Lai has had more than 1 opportunity to sell up and get out, he could have learnt his lesson and took the loss on the chin. He failed to do so arrogantly demanding that someone should pay him what he paid for the club. Beyond clueless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 23, 2022, 12:30:08 AM
TTree in the politest words I could say about the man I'd say a chancer who was, is and always been out of his depth.

Lai has had more than 1 opportunity to sell up and get out, he could have learnt his lesson and took the loss on the chin. He failed to do so arrogantly demanding that someone should pay him what he paid for the club. Beyond clueless.

Easier said than done as it’s not “his” money.  He owns just over 55% of the 88% shareholding, so only effectively owns around 48.4% of the club.  The minority shareholders own 12%, so there’s shareholders in China owning around 40% of the club. He can’t just “take it on the chin” without upsetting a lot of other investors.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on December 23, 2022, 12:59:28 AM
Without doubt I have a really sad feeling towards Albion at the moment. I will always support the club and whilst there is a chance of the playoffs I will be there supporting them. However, with the news of the loan today, I’m finding harder to support the club as a whole if that makes sense, whilst it’s being run this way. The kind of news we had today is news that happened to other clubs, not us. This bloke has been a disaster and I’m praying he sells up sooner rather than later. If as expected we don’t go up this year, I cannot see anywhere else but total meltdown which could lead to administration. I would love to know what Jeremy peace really thinks of the mess of a club he built up has become. I know people blame him, but he took years to build us up correctly and here we are potentially months away from going bust
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on December 23, 2022, 04:30:45 AM
He sold it to Lai, he knew what the guy was. This defense of Peace kills me, he sold the club made a fortune and put us on this path. His treatment of shareholders was appalling and yet some still think he was good for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 23, 2022, 09:28:09 AM
Easier said than done as it’s not “his” money.  He owns just over 55% of the 88% shareholding, so only effectively owns around 48.4% of the club.  The minority shareholders own 12%, so there’s shareholders in China owning around 40% of the club. He can’t just “take it on the chin” without upsetting a lot of other investors.


I understand that but ultimately they are all going to be taking a lot more on the chin if they continue to hold the club for longer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 23, 2022, 09:29:07 AM
Jeremy Peace doesn't care. He made his money and sold to the highest bidder regardless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 23, 2022, 11:27:40 AM
He sold it to Lai, he knew what the guy was. This defense of Peace kills me, he sold the club made a fortune and put us on this path. His treatment of shareholders was appalling and yet some still think he was good for us.

Absolutely correct tex, But I will say that he was good for the club insofar as he modernised us and made us a lot more professional which allowed us to compete in the premier league. However, unbeknown to us he was doing everything for his own personal greed, including the shafting of shareholders.

He most certainly put us on this path and he cares not a jot for us. So much for the ‘lifelong baggie fan’.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 23, 2022, 11:38:31 AM
I don't know, it was pretty clear he was building the club to sell for his own gain to most fans I thought.

I did think he would take some care over who he sold it to when he was done but when he rejected offers from lower bidder's who intended to invest in favour of an anonymous frontman from China who offered the most money my belief was crushed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 23, 2022, 12:00:43 PM
I don't know, it was pretty clear he was building the club to sell for his own gain to most fans I thought.

I did think he would take some care over who he sold it to when he was done but when he rejected offers from lower bidder's who intended to invest in favour of an anonymous frontman from China who offered the most money my belief was crushed.

That was apparent towards the end, but I strongly suspect it was the only thought in his head when he slithered through the boardroom door 22 years ago
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 23, 2022, 12:20:58 PM
That was apparent towards the end, but I strongly suspect it was the only thought in his head when he slithered through the boardroom door 22 years ago


Yes i agree he weaseled his way in to get rich from the start. I didn't think he would be THAT greedy at the exit door though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on December 23, 2022, 04:02:19 PM
It’s the hypocrisy of his “I am a fan” statement that stings. If he was such a fan why did he not sell to someone who would take the club on upwards instead of a Chinese investor group that no one knows who is behind. He was the epitome of greed, this is a community asset that he managed to scrape an extra few million for in the sale just to offload it to an investor group not even interested in the area or the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on December 23, 2022, 05:36:52 PM
It’s the hypocrisy of his “I am a fan” statement that stings. If he was such a fan why did he not sell to someone who would take the club on upwards instead of a Chinese investor group that no one knows who is behind. He was the epitome of greed, this is a community asset that he managed to scrape an extra few million for in the sale just to offload it to an investor group not even interested in the area or the club.

Spot on, Peace had no regard for the future of the club when he sold it. Traitor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: chippyclarke on December 23, 2022, 06:44:21 PM
If Peace was a true supporter of Albion, he would make a donation of a few million out of his £175million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 23, 2022, 08:03:49 PM
I sit end of row , back row , lower tier , East Stand.
On the day that SGM led us to the Premier League. I stood watching my kids and thousands of other people celebrating on the pitch.
I glanced to my right and there next to me stood Jeremy Peace. We shook hands and I congratulated him.
He replied " congratulations to you too, you now support a Premier League team "
I asked " are you going to look after our club Jeremy ?" he said " i most certainly am " despite doing some good work, He lied.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on December 23, 2022, 08:13:58 PM
I don't know, it was pretty clear he was building the club to sell for his own gain to most fans I thought.

I did think he would take some care over who he sold it to when he was done but when he rejected offers from lower bidder's who intended to invest in favour of an anonymous frontman from China who offered the most money my belief was crushed.

JP rejected a Chinese offer (Lai?) in July 2015 because they wanted a payment schedule and wouldn't pay all up front.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-broms-150m-chinese-takeover-6133867

Meanwhile the move to Jersey predated the sale.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/west-brom-owner-jeremy-peace-7340161#amp-readmore-target
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 23, 2022, 09:20:57 PM
If Peace was a true supporter of Albion, he would make a donation of a few million out of his £175million.
Easy to tell someone else how to spend their money Isn’t it  ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on December 23, 2022, 09:38:55 PM
Easy to tell someone else how to spend their money Isn’t it  ?

Except £3.75m of it is the club's money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 23, 2022, 10:27:40 PM
Except £3.75m of it is the club's money.
“The clubs money”
So someone else’s?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on December 23, 2022, 11:08:38 PM
I doubt Peace has any intention of paying or giving any money back. The issue was when he made the deal to sell the club. If he could have resisted being quite so greedy perhaps, we would be in a better position right now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ashdoy on December 23, 2022, 11:15:41 PM
I envy other clubs right now. Action 4 Albion or whatever they are called are ridiculed for their lights etc but I can’t help but think this forum and every other Albion fan who truly care about our treat club need to stand up and throw some major protest at this.

5 wins in a row doesn’t hide the fact we could be without a club in 5 years.

No performance on the pitch should hide the nightmare off it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 23, 2022, 11:31:22 PM
JP rejected a Chinese offer (Lai?) in July 2015 because they wanted a payment schedule and wouldn't pay all up front.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-broms-150m-chinese-takeover-6133867

Meanwhile the move to Jersey predated the sale.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/west-brom-owner-jeremy-peace-7340161#amp-readmore-target


Thanks for the articles, i believe there other offers in 2016 as well as Lai which Peace rejected as he did not want the clubs future gambled ie: they offered less than Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 24, 2022, 12:03:07 PM
JP rejected a Chinese offer (Lai?) in July 2015 because they wanted a payment schedule and wouldn't pay all up front.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-broms-150m-chinese-takeover-6133867

Meanwhile the move to Jersey predated the sale.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/west-brom-owner-jeremy-peace-7340161#amp-readmore-target

The earlier Chinese offer of £150m slightly puzzled me. Surely if this was Lai he would have come back and paid that amount up front and not agreed to a £25+m increase on the price? If he did then he is an even worse businessman than we thought, which takes some doing.

Could this have been a Fosun offer?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 24, 2022, 12:36:15 PM
I really don't get the 'Lai is innocent/not to blame'  type comments that pop up from time to time on here.

Lai is a grown adult. He was considered a successful businessman prior to taking over here so a level of intelligence is assumed.

He knew what he was buying and was happy to pay it. If he didn't do his research on the club/deal that isn't the fault of Peace. JP didn't force him to complete the deal.

I can only assume his shadow partners are equally as clueless as they have had offers to sell up and take the loss and move on, they refused and now they are looking at a  near total wipeout of their purchase.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on December 24, 2022, 01:20:39 PM
The earlier Chinese offer of £150m slightly puzzled me. Surely if this was Lai he would have come back and paid that amount up front and not agreed to a £25+m increase on the price? If he did then he is an even worse businessman than we thought, which takes some doing.

Could this have been a Fosun offer?

It could well have been Fosun who bought Wolves in July 2016 or Tony Xia who bought Villa in May 2016.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on December 24, 2022, 01:27:19 PM
Looks like it was the Chinese group who eventually bought Villa.

They were after Villa or Albion in 2015.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/aston-villa-takeover-chinese-consortium-5555974

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-brom-close-sale-after-5993918#amp-readmore-target
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on December 24, 2022, 02:12:53 PM
I have no time for Lai whatsoever and rue the day that he ever made contact with the club. What I will say though is that I have some understanding of why he has refused offers to buy him out for a value way below that which he paid. Why would he do that? Again this is not support of the man in any way but maybe just a little context. Because of this I cannot see any way in which he leaves in the near future.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 24, 2022, 02:21:33 PM
I have no time for Lai whatsoever and rue the day that he ever made contact with the club. What I will say though is that I have some understanding of why he has refused offers to buy him out for a value way below that which he paid. Why would he do that? Again this is not support of the man in any way but maybe just a little context. Because of this I cannot see any way in which he leaves in the near future.

Because as a businessman it's better to lose 40-50m than 100m surely?

If he takes out loans to keep the lights on then it's value will decrease and he will rue the day he turned down the chance to take a 50m loss over a 150m loss.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 24, 2022, 03:19:29 PM
Because as a businessman it's better to lose 40-50m than 100m surely?

If he takes out loans to keep the lights on then it's value will decrease and he will rue the day he turned down the chance to take a 50m loss over a 150m loss.

Ultimately taking a hit may not be his decision alone. Even if he wants to, he may have to convince the other stakeholders to share the hit with him, and I imagine that they will be less than impressed at this idea.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on December 24, 2022, 03:22:34 PM
Because as a businessman it's better to lose 40-50m than 100m surely?

If he takes out loans to keep the lights on then it's value will decrease and he will rue the day he turned down the chance to take a 50m loss over a 150m loss.

It would be better for businesspronouns to do a bit of homework before parting with their money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 24, 2022, 05:02:23 PM
It would be better for businesspronouns to do a bit of homework before parting with their money.


That would be considered a given normally but seems not with Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 24, 2022, 05:03:24 PM
Ultimately taking a hit may not be his decision alone. Even if he wants to, he may have to convince the other stakeholders to share the hit with him, and I imagine that they will be less than impressed at this idea.


I know it's not his decision alone but if they are holding on for pride or belief they can improve things here, based on their 6 years ownership to date i don't think there will be anything left in 6 years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 24, 2022, 05:21:55 PM

I know it's not his decision alone but if they are holding on for pride or belief they can improve things here, based on their 6 years ownership to date i don't think there will be anything left in 6 years.

Vital not to under-estimate the importance of “face” in Chinese culture.  Biting the bullet and crystallising a loss is not easy in that culture.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 24, 2022, 05:42:30 PM
Vital not to under-estimate the importance of “face” in Chinese culture.  Biting the bullet and crystallising a loss is not easy in that culture.

That's what i mean. Pride is the downfall of many a human and i know it's part of their culture which doesn't bode well for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 24, 2022, 06:44:32 PM
Although he is a total financially inept numpty at best, you can never say that he has done to us what that lifelong West Brom fan who was Born and bred in West Brom has done to us.

I had no ill will towards Lai a village idiot like, as anyone can be duped into a transaction where they think it is a no lose situation and the books look good, but the moment he started taking money we generated on the pitch, that totally changed and I wish he would just move to another country where him mot losing face isn't issue for him and get out before the reported offers for disappear completely.

Only a CC miracle can save us now, but even then will he sell as he will never get £200m back, and he didn't accept the last time we were in the prem.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on December 24, 2022, 06:46:02 PM
Has he gone yet? If so, a great Christmas present to us all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on December 24, 2022, 08:21:32 PM
I think it's fair to say there is no coming back from this for Lai with the fan base
COYB
Enjoy your Christmas folks and see lots of you in Brizzle
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on December 24, 2022, 08:33:52 PM
Since he never turns up he probably doesn't care anyway. I don't see how this will end, he wants to recoup most of his money and there is very little chance of that happening. if he drives us into bankruptcy he loses all his investment. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on December 24, 2022, 08:39:46 PM
Since he never turns up he probably doesn't care anyway. I don't see how this will end, he wants to recoup most of his money and there is very little chance of that happening. if he drives us into bankruptcy he loses all his investment. 




This is what I don’t understand regarding this. If we go into administration surely Lai loses everything? It is clear there is interest in America for us as it would appear that the same person or group have tried to buy us twice. Would it not be wise now for lai to except thier 50 million offer that the telegraph mentioned recently and move on. I know lai though will then lost the investors behind the scenes millions so I assume this is the issue ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on December 25, 2022, 11:44:38 AM
This season is his last chance to get as much money back as possible. I see him clinging on until the end of the season, in a hope we achieve the miracle of promotion. It's a massive gamble, because if we don't go up he is completely scr*wed. £1m's will hemorrhage from the value of the club week by week, and he will have to decide whether he takes us down with him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on December 26, 2022, 09:51:31 AM
We do have some young saleable British assets that would raise a reasonable sum so maybe the loan gives us a couple more years to retain this squad or at least the better ones and with a few wise additions and under a decent coach gives us a reasonable chance of promotion which would give Lai the chance to maybe sell at a more reasonable loss
That’s the hope I’m clinging to but the sooner he his gone the better
Whilst wishing for a sugar daddy I don’t think we are a club who would appeal but someone who is at least going to run it with a long term vision to self sustain with a small amount invested is viable
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on December 26, 2022, 02:41:25 PM
this season is our last hope.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 26, 2022, 02:49:22 PM
WBA Twitter taking bets on what the honourable, innocent victim Laiwill use as an excuse will be for not paying it back, i'm sure he will of course  :-X


Personal favourites so far:


The dog ate it

WBA are a self-sustained club so dont need it back.

We are investigating the 2014 loan so we can't do anything until that is sorted.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 26, 2022, 05:50:59 PM
This will probably never happen, but the only way he doesn't lose face is if China invades Taiwan, and the UK government  strips Chinese owners of their assets here, like they did with Chelsea.

We just have to hope he has close links to the Chinese hierarchy for this to happen.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on December 26, 2022, 06:51:53 PM
I have no time for Lai whatsoever and rue the day that he ever made contact with the club. What I will say though is that I have some understanding of why he has refused offers to buy him out for a value way below that which he paid. Why would he do that? Again this is not support of the man in any way but maybe just a little context. Because of this I cannot see any way in which he leaves in the near future.

For the same reason it is better to sell shares you have lost money on if the diagnostics suggest the price will continue to tumble. Lai has proven terrible at being the owner of a Football Club, there have been subpar appointments all the way and now he seems to be hanging onto a prayer we are promoted, but if we are not, he will have lost even more money.

He needs to understand this and get out of the club asap, for his sake and ours
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 26, 2022, 08:14:57 PM
For the same reason it is better to sell shares you have lost money on if the diagnostics suggest the price will continue to tumble. Lai has proven terrible at being the owner of a Football Club, there have been subpar appointments all the way and now he seems to be hanging onto a prayer we are promoted, but if we are not, he will have lost even more money.

He needs to understand this and get out of the club asap, for his sake and ours

That’s not the way that “face” works in Chinese culture
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 28, 2022, 07:57:01 PM
One of the worst owners (or majority shareholder if you will) in modern football history.

Lepkowski has just done a quick blast through Lai's 6 years here on Twitter. Awful.


Buys control of the club and turns his back on it.

Puts zero effort in. Leaves the running of it to other people. Peace watched it like a hawk and was involved in everything, it was in his interest to do so. 

"They (WBA) inherited a copycat, who wanted to do little to grow the club - only his own portfolio." CL on Lai.

Gave Hammond too much say, listened to Peace about who to appoint. (The first massive red flag in hindsight for me)

Appointed Luke Dowling who NOBODY wanted. Dowling then also had too much say and gave out contracts to players that benefitted them, NOT WBA. (Yes they are still here)

This is of course the very simplified version of his time here. It's been a disaster from start to, what could be, the finish down the line in a few years.





Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Orlando Astle on December 28, 2022, 09:16:57 PM
That’s not the way that “face” works in Chinese culture
In European terms read "ego"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 30, 2022, 03:00:12 PM
24 hours left before the club issue the statement on whether he paid the loan back or not.

As a self-proclaimed man of honour will be interesting to see what happens.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on December 30, 2022, 04:30:31 PM
there is not going to be any statement from the club, that way we get to wait until july 2024 to find out of it was paid back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 30, 2022, 04:43:33 PM
there is not going to be any statement from the club, that way we get to wait until july 2024 to find out of it was paid back.


That would be very poor of the club to not release a statement either way. You are probably right though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 30, 2022, 05:05:25 PM
there is not going to be any statement from the club, that way we get to wait until july 2024 to find out of it was paid back.

From the latest Albion Assembly minutes......

Quote
Guochuan Lai Loan

RG started his update by saying he had been assured by Guochuan Lai that the £4.95million loan owed to the football club by Wisdom Smart will be repaid by the revised deadline of December 31, 2022. He said he has made it clear in board meetings, including those prior to the publication of Albion’s accounts in June, that this debt must be repaid so it can be reinvested. RG also stated that supporters will be informed when the loan is repaid, and reassured members that no money will leave the club in the same way while he is Chief Executive.

In regards to recent fan protests, RG praised the passion shown by supporters, said he understood their frustration and added that he hopes the repayment of the loan will allay some of their fears.

IMO, it's not in the club's interests to disclose exactly how much money we have available for the January transfer window, so we might not hear anything until after the transfer window closes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on December 30, 2022, 08:45:35 PM
If he doesn't pay, he is a man without honour.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kris_boing on December 30, 2022, 09:06:24 PM
This £20 million.  Is it possible he could take another chunk of it to pay off his other businesses?  This 'general running of the club' statement doesn't convince me.


I hope we invest some of this money in better players.  We need to get promoted to get any chance of this parasite out of our club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 30, 2022, 09:24:37 PM
I never thought I would say this but our only way of getting out of this without administration is if we get promoted and he does an Oyston and keep all the TV/Commercial revenue and invest nothing or very little whilst we are there and sell us to those who previously showed interest in buying us.

Regarding this loan, I think that it has been secured now, instead of in the summer, is so some of it can be invested in the playing squad.

I also think he will take some of it as another loan.

Gambling is very prevalent in China, and this is a massive gamble.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on December 30, 2022, 09:33:07 PM
This £20 million.  Is it possible he could take another chunk of it to pay off his other businesses?  This 'general running of the club' statement doesn't convince me.


I hope we invest some of this money in better players.  We need to get promoted to get any chance of this parasite out of our club.

I would have been worried about further loans, but I think stating publicly it will only be used by group makes it difficult. Surely lying to shareholders is a serious issue.

Also, although the jersey company creates a more ambiguous set up for the holding groups, it should still be clear if any more leaves group . Once that happens it really doesn’t matter what happens within the jersey company because despite it being called ‘west Brom’ it’s not. Group is WBA as we know it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on December 30, 2022, 09:35:23 PM
Also I think Lai and his group are past half way, I think he’s out in the next 5 years.the question is whether he sells for £100m or £30m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 30, 2022, 09:37:54 PM
I would have been worried about further loans, but I think stating publicly it will only be used by group makes it difficult. Surely lying to shareholders is a serious issue.

Also, although the jersey company creates a more ambiguous set up for the holding groups, it should still be clear if any more leaves group . Once that happens it really doesn’t matter what happens within the jersey company because despite it being called ‘west Brom’ it’s not. Group is WBA as we know it.

Spot on.

And there’s no way that MSD would allow it anyway as removing funds from Group would materially weaken their security.   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 30, 2022, 09:40:30 PM
Spot on.

And there’s no way that MSD would allow it anyway as removing funds from Group would materially weaken their security.


Can MSD insist on this money remaining here as part of loan agreement?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 30, 2022, 09:52:29 PM

Can MSD insist on this money remaining here as part of loan agreement?

No they cannot, once the loan has been made and security provided it, is upto the club what they use it for.

He can do what he wants with it and the minority of shareholders cannot do anything as there holding is too small.

Public conjecture what the loan is for isn't a statement of intent to shareholders and should he wish he can arrange another loan to one of his failing companies.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 30, 2022, 10:45:58 PM
No they cannot, once the loan has been made and security provided it, is upto the club what they use it for.

He can do what he wants with it and the minority of shareholders cannot do anything as there holding is too small.

Public conjecture what the loan is for isn't a statement of intent to shareholders and should he wish he can arrange another loan to one of his failing companies.

Oh great!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 30, 2022, 11:35:36 PM
No they cannot, once the loan has been made and security provided it, is upto the club what they use it for.

He can do what he wants with it and the minority of shareholders cannot do anything as there holding is too small.

Public conjecture what the loan is for isn't a statement of intent to shareholders and should he wish he can arrange another loan to one of his failing companies.

Sorry but that’s totally incorrect on all fronts.

MSD will have all kinds of conditions of Default Events built into the loan terms. I’ve seen some of their loan documents with another club and those loan terms are as tight as Jeremy Peace’s wallet.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on December 30, 2022, 11:36:49 PM
Sorry but that’s totally incorrect on all fronts.

MSD will have all kinds of conditions of Default Events built into the loan terms. I’ve seen some of their loan documents with another club and those loan terms are as tight as Jeremy Peace’s wallet.

The are a secure creditor with the £20m tied against all of the clubs infrastructure so they wouldn't have a problem enforcing payment by any way required if the club were to default. No different to the bank and a mortgage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 12:50:55 AM
Sorry but that’s totally incorrect on all fronts.

MSD will have all kinds of conditions of Default Events built into the loan terms. I’ve seen some of their loan documents with another club and those loan terms are as tight as Jeremy Peace’s wallet.

If Lai wanted, he could pay himself a massive salary with the money, or "set up" an academy in china and then fund it there is nothing at all stopping Lai from taking the money if he wants to.

So if he wants to siphon the money one way or another, he can.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on December 31, 2022, 09:17:10 AM
From the latest Albion Assembly minutes......

IMO, it's not in the club's interests to disclose exactly how much money we have available for the January transfer window, so we might not hear anything until after the transfer window closes.

Quite.  Never show your hand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 12:16:07 PM
Quite.  Never show your hand.

They've already disclosed that they have £20m, if they didn't want to show their hand they could have waited to announce this until February.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 31, 2022, 12:23:33 PM
They've already disclosed that they have £20m, if they didn't want to show their hand they could have waited to announce this until February.

So true. If we continue down that line of thought we should never sell anyone either as clubs will know how much we have to spend.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on December 31, 2022, 12:30:07 PM
Tick Tock Lai. We want (need) our money back. Tick Tock
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on December 31, 2022, 12:32:30 PM
We shall soon find out, if he is an honourable man or not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 12:51:58 PM
I have it on good authority that Lai has passed his covid test and is bringing the cheque with him.

It's one of those massive cheques, so he may not be visible when handing it over in the fanzone on Monday.

Reports of Gourlay trying to extricate himself from Greggs to accept the cheque is are unconfirmed, although it is being mooted that if the cheque is smothered in gravy and made to look more like a giant pie, he may be tempted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2022, 01:09:27 PM
If Lai wanted, he could pay himself a massive salary with the money, or "set up" an academy in china and then fund it there is nothing at all stopping Lai from taking the money if he wants to.

So if he wants to siphon the money one way or another, he can.

No he can’t!  You clearly have no understanding of even the basic concepts of company law or how specialist lenders operate when lending to high-risk businesses.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 31, 2022, 01:14:24 PM
The loan will not be repaid. This bloke does not have a pot to pee in.

It wouldn’t surprise me to hear it’s being paid from another loan which will no doubt be another milestone round our neck.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on December 31, 2022, 01:25:05 PM
The loan will not be repaid. This bloke does not have a pot to pee in.

It wouldn’t surprise me to hear it’s being paid from another loan which will no doubt be another milestone round our neck.

Or 25% of our new found loan is already accounted for in 'running costs' ?

Before anyone suggests this I have no idea whatsoever whether this would be doable  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 01:27:03 PM
No he can’t!  You clearly have no understanding of even the basic concepts of company law or how specialist lenders operate when lending to high-risk businesses.

You tell me exactly how company law or any terms of his loan stop him "buying" another Zhang to get his hands on the money?

You have this idealistic view of Lai being a law abiding citizen who will be tempered in his actions by UK law, whereas I see a desperate, failing businessman who has already taken a £5m loan from the club and will not care one jot about company law and how it will sanction him in China.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 31, 2022, 01:29:13 PM
They've already disclosed that they have £20m, if they didn't want to show their hand they could have waited to announce this until February.

Is it £20 million now, to be repaid over 4 years or is it £5 million a year for 4 years?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on December 31, 2022, 01:30:41 PM
Is it £20 million now, to be repaid over 4 years or is it £5 million a year for 4 years?

Does it really matter given transfer fees are staggered?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on December 31, 2022, 01:52:02 PM
China's financial situation is very bad right now. If Lai didn't have money months and months ago I'm struggling to see where he raises the money to pay back the loan. Its not as if they've turned a corner and things are on the up. Afraid I'm a cup half full guy until proven otherwise and I fear for our club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 31, 2022, 01:57:40 PM
Does it really matter given transfer fees are staggered?

Well, it might, if the Lai loan has been paid back, we may have £25 million or £10 million.

Also, I have yet to see evidence that transfer fees are staggered (except in high value fees for top clubs).

With the exception of the Grant deal with Huddersfield, there is nothing of significant value in our latest accounts that shows "creditors or debtors owed in more than one year".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on December 31, 2022, 02:12:54 PM
Well, it might, if the Lai loan has been paid back, we may have £25 million or £10 million.

Also, I have yet to see evidence that transfer fees are staggered (except in high value fees for top clubs).

With the exception of the Grant deal with Huddersfield, there is nothing of significant value in our latest accounts that shows "creditors or debtors owed in more than one year".

So, running costs it is then.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 31, 2022, 02:28:58 PM
So, running costs it is then.

I think I mentioned a few days ago, that we have 19 players contracted beyond June 2023, so I would imagine a big chunk will go on wages.

Without parachute payments, I believe we have income of around £7 million from gate receipts & around £10 million to £15 million from media.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 31, 2022, 03:09:30 PM
Sadly there has been a delay but will be repaid in January

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/club-statement-wisdom-smart-corporation-limited-loan
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 03:09:41 PM
There are unconfirmed reports that Lai has sent the cheque using an old royal mail stamp and not one of their new qr code ones, so that may be the reason it hasn't arrived.

Another more reputable report claims every branch of the bank Lai banks with is in lockdown, hence he hasn't been able to get a new cheque book sent out to him yet.

Another report suggests Lai's money has long covid and cannot make it up the stairs let alone make an ardous journey to West Bromwich.







Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 03:13:13 PM
Sadly there has been a delay but will be repaid in January

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/club-statement-wisdom-smart-corporation-limited-loan

Even the pr department have had enough of him, referring to him as Lai.

Doesn't mention which new year though, this one, the next one the Chinese New year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 31, 2022, 03:13:59 PM
Good point. Maybe he's waiting for the first new year after pigs have been spotted flying.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 31, 2022, 03:16:08 PM
Albion twitter starting to get angry in larger numbers now
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 31, 2022, 03:20:34 PM
The effort put into that statement is mind blowing. They go into such depth and detail especially explaining when it will be repaid for the 3rd time. Not vague at all.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on December 31, 2022, 03:22:21 PM
You do get the feeling the people at the club have had enough now as well, they’ll just expose him constantly now as an awful majority share owner.

Have a feeling we’ll be sold in the Summer now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 31, 2022, 03:23:23 PM
Even Chapman's spoken out against him on Twitter now
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on December 31, 2022, 03:24:17 PM
Even the pr department have had enough of him, referring to him as Lai.

Doesn't mention which new year though, this one, the next one the Chinese New year.

Is it the Year of the Rat?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 03:36:14 PM
Albion twitter starting to get angry in larger numbers now

Great, we'll be recreating another Coldplay concert on Monday to counter this latest stab into the heart of our great club.

I am not against the Albion protests currently being organised, but I believe they are futile and won't even register with Lai.

I remember Charlton fans went to their former owner's (Roland Something or other) home and vandalised it in Switzerland I believe, whilst the inbred dingles smashed up their own hoardings and surrounded Morgan and spat on him after an away making his mind up to sell ASAP.

I am not advocating the aforementioned, I am just pointing out what others have done to get their owners out.

The only thing that would hit Lai hard is if we all stopped attending games and that won't happen.

We are completely powerless to do anything and that really fks me off.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on December 31, 2022, 03:37:20 PM
Sadly there has been a delay but will be repaid in January

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/club-statement-wisdom-smart-corporation-limited-loan

Is anyone actually surprised?

Made a mug out of Gourlay for sure.....

If he cannot pay it now, what will happen that means he can pay it in January?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on December 31, 2022, 03:42:00 PM
Watch Gourlay & Carlos walk in the New Year, the faster we are rid of Lai the better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Pie on December 31, 2022, 03:54:24 PM
And the award for the least surprising statement goes to...

Was always going to happen. We're never seeing that money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on December 31, 2022, 04:08:16 PM
So no new signings in Jan then!  ;D

Not surprised one but to be honest. We’re on a slippery slope now
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on December 31, 2022, 04:10:32 PM
Protests wont be futile if they somehow get into the Chinese press(unlikely) or more likely onto the internet, which might be a good way to go from our supporters
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on December 31, 2022, 04:16:43 PM
I think we all knew that was coming! Will be interesting to see if Corboran was promised any funds in january as previously thats what the £5m repayment was going to be used for, even if he didnt want to use it, it would annoy him if he thought he cant anyway.

Gourlay too, i wouldnt be shocked if he walked, he has made mistakes but i think he is trying to do the right things, this massively undermines him and any authority he has.

I think the fans protests are okay, it raised awareness and allows people who want to use that route to show how they feel, the more the merrier.

As for how much affect it has, i dont think its much, there have bee various protests over the years for different clubs but the only time they are sold is when somebody offers money to buy.

Lai and his group couldnt give a toss about protests, i doubt they even know we are playing games let alone who against, etc. Sadly they dont even have to worry about loss of revenue from fans, they had the parachute money and now this £20m loan which will keep them going another year or two.

At the end of that who knows, there is no long term plan, its **** or bust to get into the premier league in the next two seasons by the look if it, they dont care about protests, the bloke even borrowed off the club and hasnt repaid it so shows his values!

We have to hope somebody provides cold hard cash as thats the only way this **** is leaving us!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mr multivac on December 31, 2022, 04:20:12 PM
He makes Fu Manchu look like mother Teresa
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on December 31, 2022, 04:22:01 PM
I am a bit concerned that this statement has been released. Lai obviously told Gourlay the loan would be repaid by end of year and has now moved the goalposts. Ron Gourlay obviously doesn't want to the fall guy for fan unrest, so this statement has been put out. The last thing we need is Ron resigning and unrest in the boardroom just as the team on the pitch have started to motor. Hopefully the loan gets repaid soon but either way I don't want the boardroom blowing up and destabilising the manger & team.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 31, 2022, 04:27:06 PM
Great, we'll be recreating another Coldplay concert on Monday to counter this latest stab into the heart of our great club.

I am not against the Albion protests currently being organised, but I believe they are futile and won't even register with Lai.

I remember Charlton fans went to their former owner's (Roland Something or other) home and vandalised it in Switzerland I believe, whilst the inbred dingles smashed up their own hoardings and surrounded Morgan and spat on him after an away making his mind up to sell ASAP.

I am not advocating the aforementioned, I am just pointing out what others have done to get their owners out.

The only thing that would hit Lai hard is if we all stopped attending games and that won't happen.

We are completely powerless to do anything and that really fks me off.


They won't register until you get his name out there  in the press directly i agree
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 04:30:35 PM
Protests wont be futile if they somehow get into the Chinese press(unlikely) or more likely onto the internet, which might be a good way to go from our supporters

I take part in the current protests but they are totally futile.

It would be so much easier to protest more vociferously if we were marooned at the bottom of the championship heading down.

In those circumstances I would fully support something like full scale pitch invasion of a televised game with Lai out flags, not just the waving of phone torch or white piece of paper.

However, we are on a very good run with a chance of promotion and doing the aforementioned could result in a points deduction and alienate CC, who is working his balls off to get those points.

At present we need to get behind the team fully and try to get Lai out the best way we can, which is getting promoted and him finally selling us.

If he doesn't sell us then and we are championship bound we should do something like a televised match pitch invasion protest.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bradleysrocket on December 31, 2022, 04:51:40 PM
So frustrating at the moment that when things look right on the pitch off the field stuff is shambolic. I see there being only two way we can part with Lai. Either we get promoted and sell for closer to what he paid,or the more likely scenario that we end up in admin and the club has to rebuild with points deductions (Derby).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on December 31, 2022, 04:56:24 PM
So frustrating at the moment that when things look right on the pitch off the field stuff is shambolic. I see there being only two way we can part with Lai. Either we get promoted and sell for closer to what he paid,or the more likely scenario that we end up in admin and the club has to rebuild with points deductions (Derby).

True! Its very Albion to finally be looking so good on the pitch with the right manager in place and now to be in disarray off the pitch. The worrying part is that Lai doesn't seem to want to sell. According to reports people have been wanting to buy Albion but not been considered. Unless Lai sells what can you do? Wait for us to go into administration?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 05:09:14 PM
The time to rage hard was when the loan to lai was in the process of being made, then we could have protested to try and stop him taking club generated funds out of the club.

Instead, because the local press around here are so useless, we heard about it until long after it was made and then the spending nothing in summer 2021 made sense to us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 31, 2022, 05:35:41 PM
Is anyone surprised that it has not been paid?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2022, 05:38:04 PM
The time to rage hard was when the loan to lai was in the process of being made, then we could have protested to try and stop him taking club generated funds out of the club.

Instead, because the local press around here are so useless, we heard about it until long after it was made and then the spending nothing in summer 2021 made sense to us.

How could we possibly have known at that time?  The director(s) run the company on a day to day basis and don’t report to shareholders except when tabling the audited costs a year or so later.  A transaction could be 21 months old before we might find out about it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 31, 2022, 05:43:36 PM
The time to rage hard was when the loan to lai was in the process of being made, then we could have protested to try and stop him taking club generated funds out of the club.

Instead, because the local press around here are so useless, we heard about it until long after it was made and then the spending nothing in summer 2021 made sense to us.
Brilliant
Let’s all sing PRESS OUT at the next match?
It’s just as ridiculous as the people shouting that they want their money back….when they haven’t invested any ..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on December 31, 2022, 06:33:21 PM
If he could have accessed the money he would have paid. He hasn't got it and is mugging the club off. I wouldn't be surprised to see more money siphoned out of the club. He's up a certain creek with a leaking boat and no paddle. He is banking on promotion as his last chance. He will take us down with him if we fail.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 06:37:02 PM
How could we possibly have known at that time?  The director(s) run the company on a day to day basis and don’t report to shareholders except when tabling the audited costs a year or so later.  A transaction could be 21 months old before we might find out about it.

If the press around here weren't working for expenses and were not afraid to lose their press passes and complimentary half time sandwiches they could cultivate contacts within the club and be first to report on stories like a loan being made to Lai.

The local press are useless and report on what is already reported online.

We are insignificant to the national press, who would pay a contact within a club for such information, for example if it were Manchester United's Joel Glazier loaning his American company £5m.

Are you saying that Glazier example doesn't happen because it stays hush hush until reported to shareholders?

You seem to live in this parallel universe where everyone is upstanding and abides by company law. People don't and that is why we have prisons.

Furthermore, you still haven't answered my question asked on another post asking you what is there stopping Lai from making a football operations decision  to buy another Zhang for £7m, thereby sending us a nobody in return, other than your steadfast belief that company law will protect us?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on December 31, 2022, 07:10:29 PM
How could we possibly have known at that time?  The director(s) run the company on a day to day basis and don’t report to shareholders except when tabling the audited costs a year or so later.  A transaction could be 21 months old before we might find out about it.

Precisely. The board only has Lai, Gourlay, Ken and Mark Miles on it; so it's pie in the sky to expect journalists to get inside information against the interests of the controlling shareholder. The club has very limited disclosure requirements and those are going to get even thinner as the holding company moves over to a trust in Jersey. Let's just hope he manages to pay back his loan in January and this fiasco doesn't blow up to something that distracts away from the progress that is being made on the pitch. We are stuck with the owner for the foreseeable. I think promotion is our best shout of getting rid of him; or at least stabilising the finances, if nothing else.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tegga on December 31, 2022, 07:11:58 PM
I take part in the current protests but they are totally futile.

It would be so much easier to protest more vociferously if we were marooned at the bottom of the championship heading down.

In those circumstances I would fully support something like full scale pitch invasion of a televised game with Lai out flags, not just the waving of phone torch or white piece of paper.

However, we are on a very good run with a chance of promotion and doing the aforementioned could result in a points deduction and alienate CC, who is working his balls off to get those points.

At present we need to get behind the team fully and try to get Lai out the best way we can, which is getting promoted and him finally selling us.

If he doesn't sell us then and we are championship bound we should do something like a televised match pitch invasion protest.
I am right behind you with that BalisPen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 31, 2022, 07:16:15 PM
If the press around here weren't working for expenses and were not afraid to lose their press passes and complimentary half time sandwiches they could cultivate contacts within the club and be first to report on stories like a loan being made to Lai.

The local press are useless and report on what is already reported online.

We are insignificant to the national press, who would pay a contact within a club for such information, for example if it were Manchester United's Joel Glazier loaning his American company £5m.

Are you saying that Glazier example doesn't happen because it stays hush hush until reported to shareholders?

You seem to live in this parallel universe where everyone is upstanding and abides by company law. People don't and that is why we have prisons.

Furthermore, you still haven't answered my question asked on another post asking you what is there stopping Lai from making a football operations decision  to buy another Zhang for £7m, thereby sending us a nobody in return, other than your steadfast belief that company law will protect us?
You throw a lot of accusations around….
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Beefy on December 31, 2022, 07:30:25 PM
https://twitter.com/action4albion/status/1609249218144923648?t=Mr5jvgg_6osTcvddf48atQ&s=19
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on December 31, 2022, 08:15:07 PM
Get this man far away from our club.

You just know we won't be able to shake this plague and instead we will lose CC soon.

How can we look so brilliant now on the pitch and yet be so dreadfully run?


...... happy new year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2022, 08:23:19 PM
If the press around here weren't working for expenses and were not afraid to lose their press passes and complimentary half time sandwiches they could cultivate contacts within the club and be first to report on stories like a loan being made to Lai.

The local press are useless and report on what is already reported online.

We are insignificant to the national press, who would pay a contact within a club for such information, for example if it were Manchester United's Joel Glazier loaning his American company £5m.

Are you saying that Glazier example doesn't happen because it stays hush hush until reported to shareholders?

You seem to live in this parallel universe where everyone is upstanding and abides by company law. People don't and that is why we have prisons.

Furthermore, you still haven't answered my question asked on another post asking you what is there stopping Lai from making a football operations decision  to buy another Zhang for £7m, thereby sending us a nobody in return, other than your steadfast belief that company law will protect us?

Christ, where shall I start.

Firstly you compare us to Man United and what the Glazers do. Are you oblivious to the fact that Manchester United are a public company, listed on the NYSE, unable to breathe without reporting it immediately to the market, and with an obligation to have all kinds of governance structures in place, with properly responsible NEDs?  While we are a private company with no such obligations?   

Secondly, with a tiny board of directors totally controlled by Lai, I doubt any journalist would find anything out without Lai knowing exactly who from the board would have leaked it.

Thirdly, Lai is not a director.  He has no legal capacity whatsoever to buy any players. All he can do is tell his stooges on the board to do it, but their first duty under company law is to the company itself ahead of anybody else. They are all aware that they are firmly under the microscope.   I’ve said on here many times that if anybody is determined to act incorrectly then they will, and they are exposed to the consequences.  It’s illegal to murder somebody but it doesn’t stop it happening, and it doesn’t mean that there aren’t consequences.

Fourthly, MSD will not have lent £20m to the club without very tight strings attached.  If money is syphoned out by Lai it would be an event of default and MSD would pull the plug and demand repayment, probably forcing the club into administration. Where does he benefit from that?

The parallel universe is yours, not mine.  I deal in company law and governance day in, day out, and have done for 40 years.  I’ve no idea what your background is but you very clearly aren’t familiar with any of this.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on December 31, 2022, 08:33:46 PM
Lai is putting everything going right on the pitch in jeopardy, as an owner & custodian of the football club that’s beyond comprehension & unacceptable. We have to hope Carlos sticks this out & gets us up this season if we don’t I can’t see him sticking around in the Summer & Lai will be completely at fault. This loan needs to be paid back & the man needs to stay completely out of the way for the rest of the year to let Carlos & his staff try and get us up.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 31, 2022, 08:40:06 PM
Lai is a director, appointed to the board of West Bromwich Albion FC on 8th Feb 2022, listed on Companies House website

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03295063/officers (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03295063/officers)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 09:11:49 PM
Christ, where shall I start.

Firstly you compare us to Man United and what the Glazers do. Are you oblivious to the fact that Manchester United are a public company, listed on the NYSE, unable to breathe without reporting it immediately to the market, and with an obligation to have all kinds of governance structures in place, with properly responsible NEDs?  While we are a private company with no such obligations?   

Secondly, with a tiny board of directors totally controlled by Lai, I doubt any journalist would find anything out without Lai knowing exactly who from the board would have leaked it.

Thirdly, Lai is not a director.  He has no legal capacity whatsoever to buy any players. All he can do is tell his stooges on the board to do it, but their first duty under company law is to the company itself ahead of anybody else. They are all aware that they are firmly under the microscope.   I’ve said on here many times that if anybody is determined to act incorrectly then they will, and they are exposed to the consequences.  It’s illegal to murder somebody but it doesn’t stop it happening, and it doesn’t mean that there aren’t consequences.

Fourthly, MSD will not have lent £20m to the club without very tight strings attached.  If money is syphoned out by Lai it would be an event of default and MSD would pull the plug and demand repayment, probably forcing the club into administration. Where does he benefit from that?

The parallel universe is yours, not mine.  I deal in company law and governance day in, day out, and have done for 40 years.  I’ve no idea what your background is but you very clearly aren’t familiar with any of this.

Again you avoid the question and go off on a complete tangent.

I mentioned Glazier only in reference to how the news would leak, nothing to do with a listed company this or that. Just about the national media being interested in Manchester United and not us.

Answer the question, if a footballing decision was made to make a similar signing to say Burke, but from China or which other dodgy place in the world that facilitates this transaction, which meant a millions went on a no mark of signing, which section of the companies act is going to hold Lai and the board for a bad footballing decision?

This board has authorised a loan to him for nearly £5m, but you believe company law, that you have worked in for 40 years, will save us from such a deal for a player or for say setting up a football academy in China, and it is impossible for him to get his hands on this money if he wants it?

You love telling us all that you work in  company law, so answer that question, which section of the Companies Act is going to prevent a bad signing (a bad business decision in effect)?

In your very patronising way all you actually say is there are laws, there are laws, he can't do this and he can't do that, when you know the aforementioned scenario could quite easily happen.

Furthermore, are you also saying any such decision to sign a player or set up an academy would require MSD's approval or we would be in default of terms and conditions you are guessing exist, as you aren't privy to the agreement at all.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on December 31, 2022, 09:20:51 PM
Was clearly put in a statement that the money would be there for January.

I’d be more worried CC sacks us off if ANY club come looking. I’d assume Fat Ron told Carlos those funds would be there.

Disgraceful.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Lai is a director, appointed to the board of West Bromwich Albion FC on 8th Feb 2022, listed on Companies House website

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03295063/officers (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/03295063/officers)

He is not a director of West Bromwich Albion Group Limited, which is the company that made the loans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on December 31, 2022, 09:48:56 PM
Is he allowed to pay himself a dividend and if so how much?
Can he pay himself a 5 million dividend thus in effect cancelling the loan and just repay it that way?
My thinking is he knows he is never going to get back what they paid so will use the club to subsidise his other companies/shareholders until we maybe get promoted and then can accept less
Obviously a massive gamble that we do get promoted
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2022, 09:49:49 PM
Again you avoid the question and go off on a complete tangent.

I mentioned Glazier only in reference to how the news would leak, nothing to do with a listed company this or that. Just about the national media being interested in Manchester United and not us.

Answer the question, if a footballing decision was made to make a similar signing to say Burke, but from China or which other dodgy place in the world that facilitates this transaction, which meant a millions went on a no mark of signing, which section of the companies act is going to hold Lai and the board for a bad footballing decision?

This board has authorised a loan to him for nearly £5m, but you believe company law, that you have worked in for 40 years, will save us from such a deal for a player or for say setting up a football academy in China, and it is impossible for him to get his hands on this money if he wants it?

You love telling us all that you work in  company law, so answer that question, which section of the Companies Act is going to prevent a bad signing (a bad business decision in effect)?

In your very patronising way all you actually say is there are laws, there are laws, he can't do this and he can't do that, when you know the aforementioned scenario could quite easily happen.

Furthermore, are you also saying any such decision to sign a player or set up an academy would require MSD's approval or we would be in default of terms and conditions you are guessing exist, as you aren't privy to the agreement at all.

It would depend on whether the signing was made in good faith to but that player for that price, being a price which could they could justify as being reasonable in the market at that time, which would then at worst be a very poor football decision (think of Grant or Zohore), or whether it was a signing made for other reasons which are not in the best interests of the football club.

The former would just be a poor commercial revision, no comeback on anybody except for performance as a director.  The latter could be breach of trust, breach of fiduciary duty or even fraud, all with repercussions under the Companies Act for not acting in the best interests of the company, and obviously fraud would have criminal repercussions.  Who would bring an action for breach of trust or breach of fiduciary duty?  Only shareholders could do so, because they are the only party who could suffer loss from such breach.  So if there’s a 100% shareholder then there’s nobody to bring such an action.

If the board wanted to set up an academy in China then that’s a commercial decision. There might be circumstances when it could be justified, even if it’s unsuccessful, if it was done in the best interests of the company. If it was done as a front to enable him to benefit, then it’s not in the best interests of the company, so would be a breach of trust, a breach of fiduciary, or fraud.  As soon as he benefits, then it’s clear that he would have had a conflict of interest as a director when making the decision.  If he declared that conflict to the board and abstained, then the remaining directors are still exposed if the decision was not made in the best interests of the company.   

I’m not trying to patronise at all but it’s clear that you have no knowledge of corporate governance even by asking such questions.

I have personally seen copies of MSD loan documents re two other clubs.  They are extremely restrictive.  There are very strict restrictions on what can be done with the money.  The agreements include “reserved matters”. That means decisions which cannot be made unilaterally by the board without MSD’s express prior approval, in order to avoid being an event of default.   They will not allow anything which will clearly risk a material reduction of their loan security, and understandably do.  So no, I have not seen this actual latest agreement, and I am unlikely to do so, but they have lent so far to at least 4 clubs and have I’ve seen 50% of those.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2022, 09:59:27 PM
Is he allowed to pay himself a dividend and if so how much?
Can he pay himself a 5 million dividend thus in effect cancelling the loan and just repay it that way?
My thinking is he knows he is never going to get back what they paid so will use the club to subsidise his other companies/shareholders until we maybe get promoted and then can accept less
Obviously a massive gamble that we do get promoted

“He” cannot pay a dividend as he’s not a director of Group.  Ken is the sole director, so only he can declare a dividend.  Ken can only do so if there are available distributable reserves to pay a dividend from (there probably is - just about), and if immediately after paying the dividend the company would still be solvent. A dividend must be paid to ALL shareholders pari passu, which means that the 12% minority shareholders would have to receive the same dividend per share.   The dividend wouldn’t be payable “him”, it would be payable to Yunyai Sports, if which he effectively only owns around 55% (but is probably fronting for others) so would much of a dividend reach him anyway?

The key point is that if we are now making losses, which we are, and if all distributable reserves have already been distributed, then going forward there is simply nothing available to pay a dividend out of, without breaching company law.  And MSD will be restricting future dividends until they have been repaid, even if they might allow one dividend now.

It’s important to stress that when Yunyai bought the club they bought it when it had more than £40m of cash on the balance sheet, represented by distributable reserves, so in theory they could take out £40m of dividends, but relegation and the resulting losses have evaporated nearly all of those £40m distributable reserves.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 31, 2022, 10:05:41 PM
He is not a director of West Bromwich Albion Group Limited, which is the company that made the loans.

Yes but wouldn't cash taken from Group also impact the football club?. I could understand it if all the profit from the football club was held by group, but iit's not.

Just considering the nominal £5 million that Lai borrowed for Wisdom Smart Corpoation.

Am I correct in assuming that it has the impact of reducing the asset value on our balance sheet?

If so, aside from capital purchases (transfer fees, for example), wouldn't it have limited impact on operational costs.
It's been said for some time now that we cannot afford to increase operational spending, so players need to come off the wages bill to make way for others.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on December 31, 2022, 10:07:07 PM
The whole episode stinks. We are all talking about just £5m which, in normal circumstances would be a pee in the ocean for a club as big as ours. It was until Lai took over. We must be the laughing stock of fans across the UK There must be thousands of non league clubs who have never plummeted to the depths that we have found ourselves.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 10:15:36 PM
It would depend on whether the signing was made in good faith to but that player for that price, being a price which could they could justify as being reasonable in the market at that time, which would then at worst be a very poor football decision (think of Grant or Zohore), or whether it was a signing made for other reasons which are not in the best interests of the football club.

The former would just be a poor commercial revision, no comeback on anybody except for performance as a director.  The latter could be breach of trust, breach of fiduciary duty or even fraud, all with repercussions under the Companies Act for not acting in the best interests of the company, and obviously fraud would have criminal repercussions.  Who would bring an action for breach of trust or breach of fiduciary duty?  Only shareholders could do so, because they are the only party who could suffer loss from such breach.  So if there’s a 100% shareholder then there’s nobody to bring such an action.

If the board wanted to set up an academy in China then that’s a commercial decision. There might be circumstances when it could be justified, even if it’s unsuccessful, if it was done in the best interests of the company. If it was done as a front to enable him to benefit, then it’s not in the best interests of the company, so would be a breach of trust, a breach of fiduciary, or fraud.  As soon as he benefits, then it’s clear that he would have had a conflict of interest as a director when making the decision.  If he declared that conflict to the board and abstained, then the remaining directors are still exposed if the decision was not made in the best interests of the company.   

I’m not trying to patronise at all but it’s clear that you have no knowledge of corporate governance even by asking such questions.

I have personally seen copies of MSD loan documents re two other clubs.  They are extremely restrictive.  There are very strict restrictions on what can be done with the money.  The agreements include “reserved matters”. That means decisions which cannot be made unilaterally by the board without MSD’s express prior approval, in order to avoid being an event of default.   They will not allow anything which will clearly risk a material reduction of their loan security, and understandably do.  So no, I have not seen this actual latest agreement, and I am unlikely to do so, but they have lent so far to at least 4 clu⁹bs and have I’ve seen 50% of those.

So, the simple answer was yes, he could justify making a dodgy signing that fails.

This is a man who, it could be alleged laundered £7m on a nobody called Zhang Yuning, not from club funds, just from his disposable income in his more affluent days.

I'm a retired criminal defence duty solicitor, rarely dealing with white collar crime,  but what I do know, whatever the Companies Act says, these kinds of prosecutions are the hardest, most complex, most expensive cases to prosecute, yet you believe these subjective footballing decisions would be subject to criminal sanction?

I can tell  you that it would not be in the in public interest for the SFO or anyone else for that matter to pursue them. No one is going after Lai or Ken for anything, despite what the companies act says their duties are. It's all subjective and will not result in prosecutions if you ever got Lai extradited.





Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on December 31, 2022, 10:26:13 PM
The quick way to get a decision made either way would be to get this published over in China, respect and honour are massive over there and he would not want this loan to embarrass him personally and within business in China.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on December 31, 2022, 10:43:50 PM
We're going nowhere with this conversation. It's about as useful as officials for upcoming games. 😁
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2022, 10:54:55 PM
Yes but wouldn't cash taken from Group also impact the football club?. I could understand it if all the profit from the football club was held by group, but iit's not.

Just considering the nominal £5 million that Lai borrowed for Wisdom Smart Corpoation.

Am I correct in assuming that it has the impact of reducing the asset value on our balance sheet?

If so, aside from capital purchases (transfer fees, for example), wouldn't it have limited impact on operational costs.
It's been said for some time now that we cannot afford to increase operational spending, so players need to come off the wages bill to make way for others.

Club sits below Group in the structure, so Group owns 100% of club.  Group is the borrower from MSD, so Group is (a) answerable to MSD for how the money is used, and (b) is solely in control of providing any of this monies to Club.   The public statement is that the loan is purely for the requirements of the club, and Gourlay as CEO of Group has made it very clear that no money is leaving Club except for the needs of the Club.

The £5m loaned to Wisdom Smart doesn’t reduce the balance sheet because the loan asset remains on the balance sheet as a debtor.  However, if the loan ends up having to be written off as irrecoverable then it would disappear from the balance sheet, thereby reducing it, and would reduce reserves by £5m,  which is £5m less that can be paid out as dividends in future.

Selling players if value is the likeliest way to balance the books.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 31, 2022, 11:02:25 PM
We're going nowhere with this conversation. It's about as useful as officials for upcoming games. 😁

First of all HAPPY NEW YEAR

Personally, I've found the conversation useful (perhaps got a bit abrasive at times), but it's helped me to understand our situation better.

Although it would be good to have a new owner who we could trust, I'm not sure our situation is as dire as certain commentators would have us believe.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2022, 11:05:06 PM
So, the simple answer was yes, he could justify making a dodgy signing that fails.

This is a man who, it could be alleged laundered £7m on a nobody called Zhang Yuning, not from club funds, just from his disposable income in his more affluent days.

I'm a retired criminal defence duty solicitor, rarely dealing with white collar crime,  but what I do know, whatever the Companies Act says, these kinds of prosecutions are the hardest, most complex, most expensive cases to prosecute, yet you believe these subjective footballing decisions would be subject to criminal sanction?

I can tell  you that it would not be in the in public interest for the SFO or anyone else for that matter to pursue them. No one is going after Lai or Ken for anything, despite what the companies act says their duties are. It's all subjective and will not result in prosecutions if you ever got Lai extradited.

You are confusing “dodgy” (ie shady) with a non-shady one which fails.

That’s a dangerous accusation re Zhang because we still don’t know whether Lai used the club’s money or his own money to fund it.  The audited accounts have not accounted for it, so the likelihood is that he didn’t use club funds, and we may never know.

As a retired criminal lawyer you will of course know that getting a criminal conviction for a white collar crime has a very high barrier because the burden of the prosecution is to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt, whereas a civil case requires mere balance kd probability.  Getting a director in a civil court to try to prove that the board decision was made in the best interests of the club is a tough challenge for directors re the Wisdom Smart loan.  The making of the loan and the commercial terms of the loan are totally indefensible.

I’ve not once suggested criminal action against Lai.  Civil action is the only way.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on December 31, 2022, 11:05:40 PM
The quick way to get a decision made either way would be to get this published over in China, respect and honour are massive over there and he would not want this loan to embarrass him personally and within business in China.

Spot on
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on December 31, 2022, 11:08:32 PM
Club sits below Group in the structure, so Group owns 100% of club.  Group is the borrower from MSD, so Group is (a) answerable to MSD for how the money is used, and (b) is solely in control of providing any of this monies to Club.   The public statement is that the loan is purely for the requirements of the club, and Gourlay as CEO of Group has made it very clear that no money is leaving Club except for the needs of the Club.

The £5m loaned to Wisdom Smart doesn’t reduce the balance sheet because the loan asset remains on the balance sheet as a debtor.  However, if the loan ends up having to be written off as irrecoverable then it would disappear from the balance sheet, thereby reducing it, and would reduce reserves by £5m,  which is £5m less that can be paid out as dividends in future.

Selling players if value is the likeliest way to balance the books.


Yes, I meant in a default situation.

I agree that selling players could be an option, but even that doesn't have to be over one season does it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on December 31, 2022, 11:16:44 PM
Christ, where shall I start.

Firstly you compare us to Man United and what the Glazers do. Are you oblivious to the fact that Manchester United are a public company, listed on the NYSE, unable to breathe without reporting it immediately to the market, and with an obligation to have all kinds of governance structures in place, with properly responsible NEDs?  While we are a private company with no such obligations?   

Secondly, with a tiny board of directors totally controlled by Lai, I doubt any journalist would find anything out without Lai knowing exactly who from the board would have leaked it.

Thirdly, Lai is not a director.  He has no legal capacity whatsoever to buy any players. All he can do is tell his stooges on the board to do it, but their first duty under company law is to the company itself ahead of anybody else. They are all aware that they are firmly under the microscope.   I’ve said on here many times that if anybody is determined to act incorrectly then they will, and they are exposed to the consequences.  It’s illegal to murder somebody but it doesn’t stop it happening, and it doesn’t mean that there aren’t consequences.

Fourthly, MSD will not have lent £20m to the club without very tight strings attached.  If money is syphoned out by Lai it would be an event of default and MSD would pull the plug and demand repayment, probably forcing the club into administration. Where does he benefit from that?

The parallel universe is yours, not mine.  I deal in company law and governance day in, day out, and have done for 40 years.  I’ve no idea what your background is but you very clearly aren’t familiar with any of this.

You are making a pretty big assumption yourself. Whilst of course MSD could put a number of caveats on their loan, there is absolutely no evidence (to my knowledge anyway, of course I could be wrong), that they have a clause preventing the club from loaning money out to any entities and I personally consider that is actually quite an unlikely clause. The company has physical assets including The Hawthorns as well as the training ground. These assets are listed as collateral in the loan agreement.

I don't imagine that we will buy another Chinese player and they will be somehow used as a way to funnel funds out of the club to Lai or his associates, but it also is not at all impossible for this to happen, as there it is highly improbable that there is any clause calling for an independent valuation of any players purchased.

I don't see the benefit of what seems like more personal attacks to get peoples points across here, when it seems most people are on the same page that Lai is terrible for the club and doesn't act in the interests of the club.

What I would like to see in general is a set of laws passed across all tiers of English Football around how clubs are run, because what is happening at our club right now is a train wreck, only salvaged by the incredible work of CC
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on December 31, 2022, 11:26:33 PM
The quick way to get a decision made either way would be to get this published over in China, respect and honour are massive over there and he would not want this loan to embarrass him personally and within business in China.


Yep, got to keep his name in the lights as best we can and hope it makes it way there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on December 31, 2022, 11:36:39 PM
You are confusing “dodgy” (ie shady) with a non-shady one which fails.

That’s a dangerous accusation re Zhang because we still don’t know whether Lai used the club’s money or his own money to fund it.  The audited accounts have not accounted for it, so the likelihood is that he didn’t use club funds, and we may never know.

As a retired criminal lawyer you will of course know that getting a criminal conviction for a white collar crime has a very high barrier because the burden of the prosecution is to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt, whereas a civil case requires mere balance kd probability.  Getting a director in a civil court to try to prove that the board decision was made in the best interests of the club is a tough challenge for directors re the Wisdom Smart loan.  The making of the loan and the commercial terms of the loan are totally indefensible.

I’ve not once suggested criminal action against Lai.  Civil action is the only way.

That's my point they got away with that loan with a mere £50k interest payment being agreed. It was shocking, but their duties to the company and the companies act didn't stop them doing it, our interests as a club were totally ignored and we have had little to spend since.

I am saying now with the £20m, if they have the intent to siphon money to China for a player, there is nothing to stop them again, if there is a football argument they can make to justify it.

Regarding Zhang it was always made clear the fee was from Lai's pocket, and my point is that kind of dubious transfer for an absolute nobody can easily happen again, but this time with the club's money.

In any event we all want the best for West Brom, let's all hope the money is used wisely to get us promotion and then Lai sells us to someone who finally loves this club like we all do.

Happy New Year to you and all other Baggies on here.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on January 01, 2023, 12:13:10 AM
The quick way to get a decision made either way would be to get this published over in China, respect and honour are massive over there and he would not want this loan to embarrass him personally and within business in China.
It would handy if we could, but I don't think they care for football there. Let alone a Championship club. We could burn the flag of China, and not one citizen there would see it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2023, 01:29:16 AM
You are making a pretty big assumption yourself. Whilst of course MSD could put a number of caveats on their loan, there is absolutely no evidence (to my knowledge anyway, of course I could be wrong), that they have a clause preventing the club from loaning money out to any entities and I personally consider that is actually quite an unlikely clause. The company has physical assets including The Hawthorns as well as the training ground. These assets are listed as collateral in the loan agreement.

I don't imagine that we will buy another Chinese player and they will be somehow used as a way to funnel funds out of the club to Lai or his associates, but it also is not at all impossible for this to happen, as there it is highly improbable that there is any clause calling for an independent valuation of any players purchased.

I don't see the benefit of what seems like more personal attacks to get peoples points across here, when it seems most people are on the same page that Lai is terrible for the club and doesn't act in the interests of the club.

What I would like to see in general is a set of laws passed across all tiers of English Football around how clubs are run, because what is happening at our club right now is a train wreck, only salvaged by the incredible work of CC

As I said earlier, MSD have made loans to 4 clubs and I’ve seen the loan documents for two of those 4 loans.  The loan conditions are extremely tight. The last thing they will ever want to do is to hand to enforce their security over the assets, just as the last thing a mortgage lender wants to do is evict a defaulting borrower from their own home.

Totally agree with your last paragraph.  For a start, the “fit and proper persons test” should be an ongoing one, not just a single one at the time of trying to buy a club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2023, 01:37:16 AM
That's my point they got away with that loan with a mere £50k interest payment being agreed. It was shocking, but their duties to the company and the companies act didn't stop them doing it, our interests as a club were totally ignored and we have had little to spend since.

I am saying now with the £20m, if they have the intent to siphon money to China for a player, there is nothing to stop them again, if there is a football argument they can make to justify it.

Regarding Zhang it was always made clear the fee was from Lai's pocket, and my point is that kind of dubious transfer for an absolute nobody can easily happen again, but this time with the club's money.

In any event we all want the best for West Brom, let's all hope the money is used wisely to get us promotion and then Lai sells us to someone who finally loves this club like we all do.

Happy New Year to you and all other Baggies on here.

As I have said ad nauseum, you can’t stop a questionable act happening. People speed when they drive. The consequences come later.  Who says they’ve “got away” with the loan with just £50k interest?  The only consequences will be if the minority shareholders  are forced to bring an action against the directors, and that realistically can only happen if actual loss has occurred.  If the loan somehow does get paid next week, then what would be the point of taking such action?

MSD will require them to submit quarterly and possibly monthly management accounts to show that they have not breached the terms of the loan.  If they do syphon money off then that would be an Event of Default and MSD then have the right to immediately call in the loan.  So no, it’s really not very likely at all.  If somebody in the club is stupid enough to commit an Event of Default, then it’s not possible to prevent it, but the consequences would be  immense.

Likewise a Happy New Year.  We may disagree on things but we certainly all want the right outcome!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on January 01, 2023, 02:07:38 AM
From Lewis Cox;

The Hawthorns is Albion's home. It has been since 1900, it should be making plans for an 125th anniversary, not fearing for its future. It has to be the home for another century. The club is not the club everybody loves without it.

Very sad.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 01, 2023, 02:41:06 AM
From Lewis Cox;

The Hawthorns is Albion's home. It has been since 1900, it should be making plans for an 125th anniversary, not fearing for its future. It has to be the home for another century. The club is not the club everybody loves without it.

Very sad.

I do not support the club taking on secured debt but at the same time I do not consider us to be clinging to financial life. Then again, without an up to date balance sheet and set of accounts we are left to speculate, to a degree. But knowing what we do about our income and expenditure I think it is over the top to be worrying too much about our future. The club continues to be run very conservatively. We are not Derby County - even if Lai places his own interest above the football club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on January 01, 2023, 03:25:48 AM
I do not support the club taking on secured debt but at the same time I do not consider us to be clinging to financial life. Then again, without an up to date balance sheet and set of accounts we are left to speculate, to a degree. But knowing what we do about our income and expenditure I think it is over the top to be worrying too much about our future. The club continues to be run very conservatively. We are not Derby County - even if Lai places his own interest above the football club.

The fact he has deferred on the loan twice.

The fact he’s just got a 20million loan.

Says we are not in the greatest of places financially.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on January 01, 2023, 10:14:43 AM
The quick way to get a decision made either way would be to get this published over in China, respect and honour are massive over there and he would not want this loan to embarrass him personally and within business in China.

All media in China are tightly under Communist Party control. 

https://airpowerasia.com/2020/07/30/chinese-communist-party-control-over-media-a-comprehensive-assessment/

Even if there might be a crack in the Chinese firewall to get a story through on TikToK, I doubt if anyone would be interested.  We're a small country thousands of miles away and currently they have their own problems.

I've found this thread to be very informative.  My take is that Guochuan is in financial difficulties following China's lockdown policies and massive overreach across the construction sector.  WBA is just one more problem he has made for himself.  He won't come over here because he's too busy fighting fires in Shanghai.

All we can do is urge S4C to keep a close and noisy watch on the directors of WBA Group and make sure that UK company law is observed here.  The Wisdom Smart loan seems to be a good place to start.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 01, 2023, 11:08:35 AM
The fact he has deferred on the loan twice.

The fact he’s just got a 20million loan.

Says we are not in the greatest of places financially.

The club have secured the £20m loan, not Lai. It is on record that the loan will be used to run the club so we have to take their word for it.

We are clearly running on a tight ship, and personally I think that failure to get promotion this year will be disastrous for us financially. I don't think he intends to pay the loan back anytime soon, and I wouldn't be surprised if he intends to 'pass it on' like jersey boy did.

I will agree with you that we are not in a good place financially, and I do not see us splashing the cash in this transfer window, unless we offload first. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 01, 2023, 11:18:07 AM
Just listened to Kieran Maguire on Baggies podcast from a few days ago and he is slightly bemused by owner needing loan for day to day running costs of club when parachute payment of £30 plus million was available this season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 01, 2023, 11:28:54 AM
I do not support the club taking on secured debt but at the same time I do not consider us to be clinging to financial life. Then again, without an up to date balance sheet and set of accounts we are left to speculate, to a degree. But knowing what we do about our income and expenditure I think it is over the top to be worrying too much about our future. The club continues to be run very conservatively. We are not Derby County - even if Lai places his own interest above the football club.

I do agree.  I have said I think this could end badly but for me, badly is becoming becoming a hopeless championship team (at worse relegation to league one) rather than completely goong out of business.  That would need further poor decisions to compound things. You could argue we were only 2 years from that happening anyway.

The loan could pay off if used for a couple of smart signings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on January 01, 2023, 11:36:51 AM
The club have secured the £20m loan, not Lai. It is on record that the loan will be used to run the club so we have to take their word for it.

We are clearly running on a tight ship, and personally I think that failure to get promotion this year will be disastrous for us financially. I don't think he intends to pay the loan back anytime soon, and I wouldn't be surprised if he intends to 'pass it on' like jersey boy did.

I will agree with you that we are not in a good place financially, and I do not see us splashing the cash in this transfer window, unless we offload first.
It is also on record that Lai's loan would be repaid by yesterday. It means absolutely zilch and we would be extremely gullible if we took their word for it. Personally I'm now at the stage where I only believe something this club says when it actually comes to fruition.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 01, 2023, 11:44:22 AM
Just listened to Kieran Maguire on Baggies podcast from a few days ago and he is slightly bemused by owner needing loan for day to day running costs of club when parachute payment of £30 plus million was available this season.

After this season,our income will consist of around £7 million from gate receipts, around £1.5 million from merchandising & around £10 million to £15 million from media, so about £23/24 million max.
In addition, we owe Huddersfield, for Grant, another £7.5 million (at £2.5 million a year for the next 3 years)
The loan is £20 million over 4 years, so at least a third of it will be spent on Grant's transfer fee.
The rest will probably be spent on player wages.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 01, 2023, 11:58:11 AM
After this season,our income will consist of around £7 million from gate receipts, around £1.5 million from merchandising & around £10 million to £15 million from media, so about £23/24 million max.
In addition, we owe Huddersfield, for Grant, another £7.5 million (at £2.5 million a year for the next 3 years)
The loan is £20 million over 4 years, so at least a third of it will be spent on Grant's transfer fee.
The rest will probably be spent on player wages.
thanks for your figure’s but I believe we still owe instalments for Grady also, still a real concern if we are not a prem club when loan has to be paid back with interest of probably 15 percent or higher. Club’s assets which are ground and training facilities will be fair game.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 01, 2023, 12:29:46 PM
thanks for your figure’s but I believe we still owe instalments for Grady also, still a real concern if we are not a prem club when loan has to be paid back with interest of probably 15 percent or higher. Club’s assets which are ground and training facilities will be fair game.

I believe the Diangana deal was a straight purchase, using most of the budget.
That was why the Grant deal had to be structured.

As other posters have said, our most valuable assets are players, we have 4 players out of contract in June 2023, if the estimated wages are accurate, it's likely we could save around £4 million by not replacing them, only Kyle Bartley is a first team regular now.
IMO, the Hawthorns or other facilities are not at risk at the moment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2023, 12:30:44 PM
Just listened to Kieran Maguire on Baggies podcast from a few days ago and he is slightly bemused by owner needing loan for day to day running costs of club when parachute payment of £30 plus million was available this season.

To me it’s really not about this season, it’s about next season and beyond.  But without obtaining a loan now, prudency re next year would mean that the rest of this season would be driven by both eyes on next season’s lack of cash.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2023, 12:36:26 PM
I believe the Diangana deal was a straight purchase, using most of the budget.
That was why the Grant deal had to be structured.

As other posters have said, our most valuable assets are players, we have 4 players out of contract in June 2023, if the estimated wages are accurate, it's likely we could save around £4 million by not replacing them, only Kyle Bartley is a first team regular now.
IMO, the Hawthorns or other facilities are not at risk at the moment.

I think that’s all correct.  There will hopefully come a time when selling Grant will be possible at a fee which would at least just about cover the final year’s installment.  When you look at the deals we did for Wallace, Swift and Yokuslu, those deals from Grant and Diangana look even worse!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on January 01, 2023, 12:46:26 PM
To me it’s really not about this season, it’s about next season and beyond.  But without obtaining a loan now, prudency re next year would mean that the rest of this season would be driven by both eyes on next season’s lack of cash.
thought board had stated that our final parachute payment was to be spread out into three years instead of two. So next season we should still be in receipt of monies, something fishy is going on if club are bleeding daily finances and could this be a breach of financial fair play?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 01, 2023, 12:48:08 PM
I think that’s all correct.  There will hopefully come a time when selling Grant will be possible at a fee which would at least just about cover the final year’s installment.  When you look at the deals we did for Wallace, Swift and Yokuslu, those deals from Grant and Diangana look even worse!


The Bilic and Dowling feud was extremely damaging and costly for a club like ours.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2023, 01:00:10 PM
thought board had stated that our final parachute payment was to be spread out into three years instead of two. So next season we should still be in receipt of monies, something fishy is going on if club are bleeding daily finances and could this be a breach of financial fair play?

Very good question indeed.  Very odd.  Something changed, but taking out a loan wouldn’t help with FFP as it’s the amount of spending which counts.

Did we actually receive all the Pereira money?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 01, 2023, 01:44:00 PM
Very good question indeed.  Very odd.  Something changed, but taking out a loan wouldn’t help with FFP as it’s the amount of spending which counts.

Did we actually receive all the Pereira money?

Didn't want to get into that one, it really complicates the argument. I believe there was also some doubt about payment from the Hegazi deal.
Are outstanding debts shown under the "more than one year" grouping in the accounts?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2023, 01:51:12 PM
Didn't want to get into that one, it really complicates the argument. I believe there was also some doubt about payment from the Hegazi deal.
Are outstanding debts shown under the "more than one year" grouping in the accounts?

The June 2022 audited accounts will be extremely interesting indeed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on January 01, 2023, 02:05:26 PM
Are we not a limited company ? If so are there not legal rules in place and if these are being bent or ignored shouldn’t the HMRC be all over it ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2023, 03:00:47 PM
Are we not a limited company ? If so are there not legal rules in place and if these are being bent or ignored shouldn’t the HMRC be all over it ?

There are, and yes, but we don’t know details until the audited accounts are published (must be within 9 months after the year end which can therefore be up to 21 months after a dodgy transaction took place).  Directors are supposed to act solely in the interests of the company and may therefore only become accountable once the accounts are published and shareholders get to know about what has happened).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 01, 2023, 03:03:20 PM
The June 2022 audited accounts will be extremely interesting indeed

Been saying it for a while now. I wonder how much more he will have taken out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 01, 2023, 03:23:43 PM
How strange that all that is good with the club is down to the new manager, and all that is bad is down to the board/chairman
So can someone enlighten me as to which fan or player it was that appointment Corberan?

All that is good with this club is down to the appointment of Corberan.

All that is bad with this club clearly lies with those in the boardroom and those anonymous people in China.

It’s not a hard concept really despite another attempt at devils advocate in what appears a hollier than thou manner.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 01, 2023, 04:08:23 PM
thought board had stated that our final parachute payment was to be spread out into three years instead of two. So next season we should still be in receipt of monies, something fishy is going on if club are bleeding daily finances and could this be a breach of financial fair play?

It was confirmed in the last set of Albion Assembly minutes that this season is the last season of parachute payments. Somewhere along the line the Three Year Plan became the Two Year Plan. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when this was advised and decided upon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on January 01, 2023, 04:10:21 PM
The message from the club was that they would spread the two parachute payments over three years (During SBEra). Probably not true just like the loan situation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on January 01, 2023, 04:11:19 PM
I thought there was a third loan taken from the club in the last year, or did I get that wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 01, 2023, 04:20:26 PM
I believe the Diangana deal was a straight purchase, using most of the budget.
That was why the Grant deal had to be structured.

As other posters have said, our most valuable assets are players, we have 4 players out of contract in June 2023, if the estimated wages are accurate, it's likely we could save around £4 million by not replacing them, only Kyle Bartley is a first team regular now.
IMO, the Hawthorns or other facilities are not at risk at the moment.

I am pretty sure Sullivan wanted the cash up front as they needed it for a transfer they wanted to complete. Of course we wanted the player so did as we were told.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 01, 2023, 04:23:23 PM
I thought there was a third loan taken from the club in the last year, or did I get that wrong.

There is rumour of a further £2m going out, but that will not be confirmed (or not) until the accounts are released.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on January 01, 2023, 04:27:07 PM
Are we not a limited company ? If so are there not legal rules in place and if these are being bent or ignored shouldn’t the HMRC be all over it ?
As long as they are getting theirs they won’t fuss about much else
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 01, 2023, 04:27:59 PM
I've heard of robbing Peter to pay Paul but this blokes taking the mick
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 01, 2023, 04:30:32 PM
All that is good with this club is down to the appointment of Corberan.

All that is bad with this club clearly lies with those in the boardroom and those anonymous people in China.

It’s not a hard concept really despite another attempt at devils advocate in what appears a hollier than thou manner.
That’s not correct though is it ?

Firstly the bad (in most people’s eyes) aka the board……
They appointed corberan
They removed Bruce (which everyone wanted)
They appointed a young left field coach “Val” which many were championing
They backed Billic (which most were saying was Corberan ) when he wanted to chuff 16m on Karlan Grant

But so many seem oblivious to all of the above
The good
BTA ….who signed him?
Swift,Wallace,Yokuslu …who signed them?

Not too sure where you are going with the comments about devils advocate and holier than thou manner.
Most of the fan base haven’t got the first clue about business or football finance, but seem quite happy to pick and choose when it suits and chant along with ridiculous chants about “their money”
Now they seem hell bent on protesting outside the glass doors on Halfords lane……not withstanding that the bloke that they wish to protest against isn’t there, so why not create some frenzied chanting and put some women and kids off ever coming again?,
I’ve said before there is nothing wrong with people having an INFORMED OPINION but there’s not many that actually chant/protest that have any bloody idea .
Sorry if that doesn’t fit your narrative.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on January 01, 2023, 04:46:45 PM
With no Parachute payment next season we are in a whole world of pain if we dont go up. We will have a huge wage bill we can't afford, a loan we have to make repayments on that we likely cant afford. All this probably leading to a player 'fire sale', with the knock on effect of a very poor squad fighting to stay in the Championship. This has all the hallmarks of League 2, and the wilderness for quite a few years, with the worse case scenario the ground is taken from us if we default on the loan. This really couldn't get much worse. Lai has gambled absolutely everything for promotion this season. It is literally sh*t or bust for the club.
And a special thanks to JP for selling us down the river.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on January 01, 2023, 04:50:03 PM
How strange that all that is good with the club is down to the new manager, and all that is bad is down to the board/chairman
So can someone enlighten me as to which fan or player it was that appointment Corberan?

All people are going to be judged on their body of work, with an obvious weighting to the present. CC can only be judged on performances since he arrived and these are brilliant, it is inarguable that he has made a huge difference in our match day results. The board and the owner have a bigger body of work to be judged on and yes the appointment of CC is a tick, but this tick (imo) is outweighed by various questionable decisions that have been made, including the current loan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 01, 2023, 04:51:14 PM
I've heard of robbing Peter to pay Paul but this blokes taking the mick

What's Mick got to do with it and is Clipboard with him? Things are worse than I thought.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 01, 2023, 05:12:12 PM
Well it is correct…

The bad elements of this football club lie with the board and the owner - who else would it lie with?

How dare Carlos Corberan orchestrate a £20m loan and use the clubs assets as collateral damage.

Tell you what, I’m glad Gourlay and Lai are on the training pitch. They’re doing a stellar job. Those pair have turned The Hawthorns into a positive environment. I look forward to chanting “stand up if you want Corberan out tomorrow”.

How dare Carlos Corberan sanction a £4.95m loan to prop up his other businesses. How dare he use such an appalling interest rate.

As for the bad - and the achievements you outline. Corberan was always a fans favourite (aside from Dyche) and you will not earlier in the thread I have provided credit for the appointment.

Your other suggestions though - removing Bruce was not a success. It was a dereliction of duty in appointing him in the first place with no thorough recruitment process. The decision to sack him came far too late. I am not celebrating the decision to sack a man who won something soft like 7 in 32.

The Val appointment wasn’t necessarily the issue - the fact we didn’t have a squad that suited his methods and proceeded to support him with additions of Hugill and Reach whilst selling off the family silver on cut prices were horrific calls. His appointment though just continues the cycle of flip flopping changing we’ve become accustomed to. From Pulis to Moore, to Shan, to Bilic, to Allardyce, to another project is Ismael, back to the dinosaurs and now another project with Carlos. Living for today, no thought for tomorrow.

As for the good - well, it’s more a small fortune than good judgement. BTA we stumbled across - despite not having an interest in him - the other was signed seemingly on the crest of a fans wave and the other were stand out performers in this division. Remind me - how’s that overhaul of the recruitment team gone? How’s that forward planning gone?

I note you cherry pick those three in particular yet ignore the two year deals for Kelly, the Phillips extension, the Button extension, Livermore, BARTLEY AND SO ON…

You’re hollier than thou attitude reeks across the forum with your continued condescending sniping at members and fan base at large which are typified by your “Bazaa from tippon” comments.

If you cannot see the issues with our poor governance then fair enough.. But supporters are equally entitled to chant where’s our money gone given the sale of Pereira and of course the £5m that is owed to us but not forthcoming.

Fair play to those supporters not willing to accept this club being ran like some 80s corner shop. If you’re happy with the way things are then great.

Personally, I’ll be joining Bazza and the other ill informed tiptoners and we’ll chant where’s the money gone Tom and we’ll continue to demonstrate frustration at how this club is being ran and I like many others will continue to push for a change of ownership in anyway that is reasonably possible.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 01, 2023, 05:28:17 PM
Well it is correct…

The bad elements of this football club lie with the board and the owner - who else would it lie with?

How dare Carlos Corberan orchestrate a £20m loan and use the clubs assets as collateral damage.

Tell you what, I’m glad Gourlay and Lai are on the training pitch. They’re doing a stellar job. Those pair have turned The Hawthorns into a positive environment. I look forward to chanting “stand up if you want Corberan out tomorrow”.

How dare Carlos Corberan sanction a £4.95m loan to prop up his other businesses. How dare he use such an appalling interest rate.

As for the bad - and the achievements you outline. Corberan was always a fans favourite (aside from Dyche) and you will not earlier in the thread I have provided credit for the appointment.

Your other suggestions though - removing Bruce was not a success. It was a dereliction of duty in appointing him in the first place with no thorough recruitment process. The decision to sack him came far too late. I am not celebrating the decision to sack a man who won something soft like 7 in 32.

The Val appointment wasn’t necessarily the issue - the fact we didn’t have a squad that suited his methods and proceeded to support him with additions of Hugill and Reach whilst selling off the family silver on cut prices were horrific calls. His appointment though just continues the cycle of flip flopping changing we’ve become accustomed to. From Pulis to Moore, to Shan, to Bilic, to Allardyce, to another project is Ismael, back to the dinosaurs and now another project with Carlos. Living for today, no thought for tomorrow.

As for the good - well, it’s more a small fortune than good judgement. BTA we stumbled across - despite not having an interest in him - the other was signed seemingly on the crest of a fans wave and the other were stand out performers in this division. Remind me - how’s that overhaul of the recruitment team gone? How’s that forward planning gone?

I note you cherry pick those three in particular yet ignore the two year deals for Kelly, the Phillips extension, the Button extension, Livermore, BARTLEY AND SO ON…

You’re hollier than thou attitude reeks across the forum with your continued condescending sniping at members and fan base at large which are typified by your “Bazaa from tippon” comments.

If you cannot see the issues with our poor governance then fair enough.. But supporters are equally entitled to chant where’s our money gone given the sale of Pereira and of course the £5m that is owed to us but not forthcoming.

Fair play to those supporters not willing to accept this club being ran like some 80s corner shop. If you’re happy with the way things are then great.

Personally, I’ll be joining Bazza and the other ill informed tiptoners and we’ll chant where’s the money gone Tom and we’ll continue to demonstrate frustration at how this club is being ran and I like many others will continue to push for a change of ownership in anyway that is reasonably possible.

As I see it, fans are more than entitled to protest against the owner for a) taking money out of the club and b) being less than transparent - noting how many auditors along with the finance director have resigned.

At the same time the board have made some very bad and very good decisions, over Lai's tenure - but ultimately got a lot more wrong than right. We can be very critical of lots of football decisions and still give credit where it is due to appointing Corberan.

If we are debating their track record on appointing coaches and how premiership revenue has been used then I think it is nuanced and complex subject; with differing views. Whereas, separately, the owner talking money out of the club is straight-forwardly wrong and should be condemned.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 01, 2023, 05:34:17 PM
With no Parachute payment next season we are in a whole world of pain if we dont go up. We will have a huge wage bill we can't afford, a loan we have to make repayments on that we likely cant afford. All this probably leading to a player 'fire sale', with the knock on effect of a very poor squad fighting to stay in the Championship. This has all the hallmarks of League 2, and the wilderness for quite a few years, with the worse case scenario the ground is taken from us if we default on the loan. This really couldn't get much worse. Lai has gambled absolutely everything for promotion this season. It is literally sh*t or bust for the club.
And a special thanks to JP for selling us down the river.

I would be surprised if the club's financial position was as dire as your prediction given we have never pushed the boat out and have always run the finances conservatively, too safety-first for my liking at times. Some of the higher earners are out of contract in the summer and this recent loan from MSD has a four year repayment term.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 01, 2023, 05:50:09 PM
Well it is correct…

The bad elements of this football club lie with the board and the owner - who else would it lie with?

How dare Carlos Corberan orchestrate a £20m loan and use the clubs assets as collateral damage.

Tell you what, I’m glad Gourlay and Lai are on the training pitch. They’re doing a stellar job. Those pair have turned The Hawthorns into a positive environment. I look forward to chanting “stand up if you want Corberan out tomorrow”.

How dare Carlos Corberan sanction a £4.95m loan to prop up his other businesses. How dare he use such an appalling interest rate.

As for the bad - and the achievements you outline. Corberan was always a fans favourite (aside from Dyche) and you will not earlier in the thread I have provided credit for the appointment.

Your other suggestions though - removing Bruce was not a success. It was a dereliction of duty in appointing him in the first place with no thorough recruitment process. The decision to sack him came far too late. I am not celebrating the decision to sack a man who won something soft like 7 in 32.

The Val appointment wasn’t necessarily the issue - the fact we didn’t have a squad that suited his methods and proceeded to support him with additions of Hugill and Reach whilst selling off the family silver on cut prices were horrific calls. His appointment though just continues the cycle of flip flopping changing we’ve become accustomed to. From Pulis to Moore, to Shan, to Bilic, to Allardyce, to another project is Ismael, back to the dinosaurs and now another project with Carlos. Living for today, no thought for tomorrow.

As for the good - well, it’s more a small fortune than good judgement. BTA we stumbled across - despite not having an interest in him - the other was signed seemingly on the crest of a fans wave and the other were stand out performers in this division. Remind me - how’s that overhaul of the recruitment team gone? How’s that forward planning gone?

I note you cherry pick those three in particular yet ignore the two year deals for Kelly, the Phillips extension, the Button extension, Livermore, BARTLEY AND SO ON…

You’re hollier than thou attitude reeks across the forum with your continued condescending sniping at members and fan base at large which are typified by your “Bazaa from tippon” comments.

If you cannot see the issues with our poor governance then fair enough.. But supporters are equally entitled to chant where’s our money gone given the sale of Pereira and of course the £5m that is owed to us but not forthcoming.

Fair play to those supporters not willing to accept this club being ran like some 80s corner shop. If you’re happy with the way things are then great.

Personally, I’ll be joining Bazza and the other ill informed tiptoners and we’ll chant where’s the money gone Tom and we’ll continue to demonstrate frustration at how this club is being ran and I like many others will continue to push for a change of ownership in anyway that is reasonably possible.
I never said that Carlos had arranged a 20 million loan did I , nor did I say that gourlay and Lai were on the training pitch ?, but if it makes you happy .
There is no snipping at the fan base, what I object to is people having an opinion on stuff they don’t understand ….so if they want to chant about” where their money has gone”, maybe they should first invest so it actually is “their money” and then maybe get their heads around how a business works …

It’s quite clear we won’t agree , my standpoint is that the team and the manager appear to be getting something going nicely and I don’t want that disrupted by off field issues, and certainly don’t feel that I’ll informed protests based on what a friend of a friend thinks about how our clubs finances are run….are going to be productive .
I don’t hate Lai (I have never met him or done business with him ) I do understand that people care about West Bromwich Albion football club, but in everything I try to stand back and ask why ..
Why would Lai wish to create issues he doesn’t need and issues that will obviously detrimentally impact his investment ….to do so wouldn’t make sense .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on January 01, 2023, 06:04:27 PM
I'm intrigued now Zippy.

Which fans are "having an opinion on stuff they don't understand" .

Maybe you didn't intend it this way, but it comes across very heavily that you don't think fans should have too many opinions about the financial shenanigans at the club because it "isn't their money".
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2023, 06:05:18 PM
I would be surprised if the club's financial position was as dire as your prediction given we have never pushed the boat out and have always run the finances conservatively, too safety-first for my liking at times. Some of the higher earners are out of contract in the summer and this recent loan from MSD has a four year repayment term.

Quite right.  It’s not quite as serious as some suggest, but it does have the potential of getting that bad.  If the Lai and Peace loans are recovered that’s at least £12m of the £20m back, and we have several players capable of being sold for decent prices to smooth the burden. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on January 01, 2023, 07:35:07 PM
Morsel of spotlight being shone on this:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64134882
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 01, 2023, 07:36:42 PM
I'm intrigued now Zippy.

Which fans are "having an opinion on stuff they don't understand" .

Maybe you didn't intend it this way, but it comes across very heavily that you don't think fans should have too many opinions about the financial shenanigans at the club because it "isn't their money".

I think the bigger problem is that we just do not know what the owner is up to, good or bad given the very limited and retrospective financial reporting requirements. We only get a glimpse behind the curtain - but what we have been shown is not pretty. I understand why fans would want to protest about this loan and also why fans would also consider protests counter-productive at this stage, given the momentum the team has created on the pitch - both reasonable views. My general view is that the lights on the mobile phone was the perfect balance of protest whilst also cheering the team on. Whereas pitchforks outside the Halfords lane may get a bit too ugly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on January 01, 2023, 07:40:15 PM
I don't think it is reasonable to be critical of protests at this point. The clubs currently owed about £10m from successive owners taking money out of the club for non footballing reasons and is now having to take out a high risk £20m loan (plus high interest) to maintain the current level of spending.

If you don't endorse protests now, you will never endorse a protest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on January 01, 2023, 07:44:54 PM
There are, and yes, but we don’t know details until the audited accounts are published (must be within 9 months after the year end which can therefore be up to 21 months after a dodgy transaction took place).  Directors are supposed to act solely in the interests of the company and may therefore only become accountable once the accounts are published and shareholders get to know about what has happened).

For misconduct fraud scams etc you can complain before audited accounts online ‘ Please complain about a company online at www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company.‘ there are so much going on at WBA and HMRC seem keen to stop football clubs acting improper.. has any accountant fans submitted their concerns ? Loans, transfers etc
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 01, 2023, 07:47:24 PM
I'm intrigued now Zippy.

Which fans are "having an opinion on stuff they don't understand" .

Maybe you didn't intend it this way, but it comes across very heavily that you don't think fans should have too many opinions about the financial shenanigans at the club because it "isn't their money".
The back and forth arguments on this very forum have proven that there are folk that don’t know, understand or even care to try to understand financial business and it’s compliance /procedures.

Your second point is correct, whilst aware that football is very emotive, a business is a business and “our club” doesn’t actually belong to us and I doubt it ever will.so yes I am of the belief that someone who invests financially does have a right to run the business how 5hey wish as long as it’s within the legal rules of the country 9f that business.
This doesn’t mean that I blindly support any board or chairman, just that I don’t Intend to voice my dissatisfaction especially at a time when it really cannot be seen as a positive (IMO) and I don’t understand 5he sheep/pack mentality of others that wish to, without understanding the rationale.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2023, 07:49:28 PM
For misconduct fraud scams etc you can complain before audited accounts online ‘ Please complain about a company online at www.gov.uk/complain-about-a-limited-company.‘ there are so much going on at WBA and HMRC seem keen to stop football clubs acting improper.. has any accountant fans submitted their concerns ? Loans, transfers etc

None of those categories would fit what’s happening at the club.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 01, 2023, 07:51:43 PM
I don't think it is reasonable to be critical of protests at this point. The clubs currently owed about £10m from successive owners taking money out of the club for non footballing reasons and is now having to take out a high risk £20m loan (plus high interest) to maintain the current level of spending.

If you don't endorse protests now, you will never endorse a protest.
I don’t think it’s reasonable to protest at this point.
It’s all about opinions
How many of those that protest do you believe actually know the full reason behind the protest including the monetary value and personnel involved?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on January 01, 2023, 07:52:18 PM
The sheep /pack mentality? Is that how you see the protestors?

I could get into a debate, but it's clear you have a subservient mind set when it comes to the football club

Personally, I feel the fans prepared to protest against what is now going on at the club, raising the profile and awareness of the campaign to the point the Sunday times sports editor is covering it on an almost weekly basis are the lifeblood of this football club.

You see it as a business. I and many others know it is more than that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on January 01, 2023, 07:54:53 PM
None of those categories would fit what’s happening at the club.

Really? The pereira and hegazzi transfer both seem strange when it comes to money into the club, the possibility of borrowing off the club to purchase more shares etc
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 01, 2023, 07:56:58 PM
The sheep /pack mentality? Is that how you see the protestors?

I could get into a debate, but it's clear you have a subservient mind set when it comes to the football club

Personally, I feel the fans prepared to protest against what is now going on at the club, raising the profile and awareness of the campaign to the point the Sunday times sports editor is covering it on an almost weekly basis are the lifeblood of this football club.

You see it as a business. I and many others know it is more than that.
Yes sheep pack mentality….no I never said I see ALL protesters in that way….my point is there are/will be some chanting and shouting that have absolutely no idea…or are you telling me that you think everyone that sings we want our club back as actually looked at the finances in detail..

I see the club as a club and a business, they have to work in tandem or they just don’t work.
You say subservient I’d say realistic.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2023, 08:07:43 PM
Really? The pereira and hegazzi transfer both seem strange when it comes to money into the club, the possibility of borrowing off the club to purchase more shares etc

There is zero evidence (currently) re Pereira or Hegazi, just mere speculation.

Who would be complainant re the loans?  The money is owed to the club by non-UK companies. Who would be complaining against the UK company?  Those provisions are clearly aimed at companies in the retail world.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 01, 2023, 08:09:03 PM
I never said that Carlos had arranged a 20 million loan did I , nor did I say that gourlay and Lai were on the training pitch ?, but if it makes you happy .
There is no snipping at the fan base, what I object to is people having an opinion on stuff they don’t understand ….so if they want to chant about” where their money has gone”, maybe they should first invest so it actually is “their money” and then maybe get their heads around how a business works …

It’s quite clear we won’t agree , my standpoint is that the team and the manager appear to be getting something going nicely and I don’t want that disrupted by off field issues, and certainly don’t feel that I’ll informed protests based on what a friend of a friend thinks about how our clubs finances are run….are going to be productive .
I don’t hate Lai (I have never met him or done business with him ) I do understand that people care about West Bromwich Albion football club, but in everything I try to stand back and ask why ..
Why would Lai wish to create issues he doesn’t need and issues that will obviously detrimentally impact his investment ….to do so wouldn’t make sense .

Do you go to games and hear this chant?

Because, if you had you'd know it is "where's the money gone"  as in the club's money not "their" personal money.

No one is saying Lai has taken our money, but the money of the club.

Despite this trying running a club without us fans putting in their hard earnt money, some on here put in thousands per season.

You should never bite the hand that feeds you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 01, 2023, 08:12:45 PM
You see it as a business. I and many others know it is more than that.

THAT. Absolutely.

Despite this trying running a club without us fans putting in their hard earnt money, some on here put in thousands per season.

You should never bite the hand that feeds you.

And that too.

However I also agree this shouldn't be on CC's thread....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kirk on January 01, 2023, 08:23:55 PM
There is zero evidence (currently) re Pereira or Hegazi, just mere speculation.

Who would be complainant re the loans?  The money is owed to the club by non-UK companies. Who would be complaining against the UK company?  Those provisions are clearly aimed at companies in the retail world.

The JP loan may not hence the internal investigation and the money being moved to non uk companies (which no one knows which companies) could fall under money laundering… as for the transfers speculation ? How many players with pereira ability go for that much? Remind me again how many FDs and auditors have resigned ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 01, 2023, 08:29:15 PM
The JP loan may not hence the internal investigation and the money being moved to non uk companies (which no one knows which companies) could fall under money laundering… as for the transfers speculation ? How many players with pereira ability go for that much? Remind me again how many FDs and auditors have resigned ?

I totally agree with all you are saying there, but none of it falls within the provisions of the link you provided.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 01, 2023, 08:57:55 PM
People talk about fans not investing..

Those that buy season tickets, merchandise, match tickets - that’s investing into a strong emotional attachment to so many. An institution perhaps. Who is anyone to criticise that?

Those bazzas from Tipton contribute nigh on £8m towards the club per season.

Take that away and the club is stuffed.

So yes, we are entitled to go out there and moan and sing to our hearts content at those who treat this club with contempt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 01, 2023, 09:50:24 PM
People talk about fans not investing..

Those that buy season tickets, merchandise, match tickets - that’s investing into a strong emotional attachment to so many. An institution perhaps. Who is anyone to criticise that?

Those bazzas from Tipton contribute nigh on £8m towards the club per season.

Take that away and the club is stuffed.

So yes, we are entitled to go out there and moan and sing to our hearts content at those who treat this club with contempt.
I have a season ticket, 4 in fact and been to most of the away games .
This season have purchased 6 shirts various other bits .
I still don’t count that has a serious investment in terms of enough to have a voice on how the clubs finances are run ….and I never criticised anybody that did buy season tickets and memorabilia did I , but I assume by your “Bazza” you are aiming at me….so I will respond
And th bit about “Bazza” contributing 8m isn’t correct , and if taken in individual contribution , the % of share or turnover would be negligible  …..doesn’t stop anyone from caring or having an emotional tie…but doesn’t make them voices in the boardroom either .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 01, 2023, 10:19:55 PM
I have a season ticket, 4 in fact and been to most of the away games .
This season have purchased 6 shirts various other bits .
I still don’t count that has a serious investment in terms of enough to have a voice on how the clubs finances are run ….and I never criticised anybody that did buy season tickets and memorabilia did I , but I assume by your “Bazza” you are aiming at me….so I will respond
And th bit about “Bazza” contributing 8m isn’t correct , and if taken in individual contribution , the % of share or turnover would be negligible  …..doesn’t stop anyone from caring or having an emotional tie…but doesn’t make them voices in the boardroom either .

Your comment was “maybe they should first invest so it is actually their money”.

My comment about bazzas investing £8m is correct based on ticket sales and merchandise.

That provides supporters of this club - no matter their level of intellect or financial capabilities - the ability to shout, scream, clap, sing, protest on matters relating to their club.

And regardless of your view on certain sections of supporters - which acrosss numerous threads you have made clear over a sustained period of time, it is unacceptable for the custodian of this club to use our clubs money to prop up his failing business - at a point when our club is failing and needs those monies.

Quite frankly, everybody should object to that.

The fact that money has not been repaid should have everyone standing outside the Halfords lane tomorrow.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 01, 2023, 11:40:02 PM
Looks like I've missed quite an evening. Emotions are understandably running high right now.


Action for Albion are on Talksport tomorrow 10am-1pm. Talking to Simon Jordan about what's going on here. Good stuff.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on January 01, 2023, 11:46:37 PM
The wisdom smart corp is about as laughable a name as you could find. I doubt " in their wisdom" they could raise money from any serious lender so WBA steps in (they were only formed in 2015). No idea what they do. Lending money to a start-up is generally not acceptable because the company has to show an ability to pay the loan off. Shambles.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Manc Baggie on January 02, 2023, 11:15:54 AM
We have an owner, who has only ever taken money from our club, has proven to be unable to pay it back & has shown to be only a passing acquaintance with the truth about when it will be paid back.
If this was the case at any other club, we would be looking at the situation & thanking our lucky stars we didn’t have such a dodgy owner. Unfortunately, we do have one of, if not the worst owner currently within UK football.
The fact that we have managed to remain a viable business, is in spite of, not because of our owner.
If this situation is not worth football fans protesting about, then I don’t know what is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 04, 2023, 12:50:15 PM
With more details surrounding the loan being uploaded we can see the 20m is secured against the ground etc as we would expect but it's also secured against the club badge, trademarks etc.


Can someone with more intelligence than me explain if this is normal? Surely the ground, middlemore road land etc would cover the 20m?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on January 04, 2023, 12:55:23 PM
With more details surrounding the loan being uploaded we can see the 20m is secured against the ground etc as we would expect but it's also secured against the club badge, trademarks etc.


Can someone with more intelligence than me explain if this is normal? Surely the ground, middlemore road land etc would cover the 20m?

sounds to me like,

Dear Mr Lai
Thank you for considering our loan, to be clear and for the avoidance of doubt, if you default we take the ground, facilities and dont think you can hold us to ransom with intangibles like the Throstle, badge , keys to radiators in shower room .......... we will own it all, and by all we mean, ALL,     

Love MSD xxx
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBaggieMan on January 04, 2023, 12:59:30 PM
Did a similar scenario to this not happen with the owner of Birmingham City a few years ago? 
I seem to remember he was of Far Eastern extraction and somehow, they (whoever ‘they’ are) managed to extricate him from ownership which is exactly what we wish do replicate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 04, 2023, 01:01:04 PM
sounds to me like,

Dear Mr Lai
Thank you for considering our loan, to be clear and for the avoidance of doubt, if you default we take the ground, facilities and dont think you can hold us to ransom with intangibles like the Throstle, badge , keys to radiators in shower room .......... we will own it all, and by all we mean, ALL,     

Love MSD xxx



Reads to me like they expect him to fail, which i do too, and then they get everythingon the cheap however i know nothing about this kind of practice so will wait for a wiser head to explain!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on January 04, 2023, 01:01:57 PM
Did a similar scenario to this not happen with the owner of Birmingham City a few years ago? 
I seem to remember he was of Far Eastern extraction and somehow, they (whoever ‘they’ are) managed to extricate him from ownership which is exactly what we wish do replicate.

He got extricated into clink if I remember correctly? Carson Yeung - got 6 years for money laundering or similar ???
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 04, 2023, 01:14:50 PM
Did a similar scenario to this not happen with the owner of Birmingham City a few years ago? 
I seem to remember he was of Far Eastern extraction and somehow, they (whoever ‘they’ are) managed to extricate him from ownership which is exactly what we wish do replicate.


The guy is such a terrible owner I just can't see him being competent enough to add any value to the club ever.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bidbaggie on January 04, 2023, 01:31:37 PM
With more details surrounding the loan being uploaded we can see the 20m is secured against the ground etc as we would expect but it's also secured against the club badge, trademarks etc.


Can someone with more intelligence than me explain if this is normal? Surely the ground, middlemore road land etc would cover the 20m?

The full debenture (security document) can be found on companies house and read in all its 61 page glory if anyone is interested.

From a quick review (2 minute scan so please do not take this as read), it would seem that MSD have fixed and floating charges over everything the group own - whether that be property, IP, debt receivables etc - basically, in the event of a default, they can appoint administrators and will recover their remaining balance against these before anyone else gets a penny back (including Tax Man and employees of the club) although an amount will have to be set aside for non secured creditors but this will be a fraction

I don't have working knowledge of football finances but this is fairly standard when borrowing monies - security is normally separated out where you have more than one lender - ie you take out a mortgage on property from one institute but borrow monies against future sale proceeds from another. If there is only one lender of finance (i think this is the case with WBA), they normally take security over everything unless they are cock sure that the asset they have charged will return their investment in a default (ie like having a 70% loan to equity value mortgage against your house)

I can send a link to the document if people want to pm me



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 04, 2023, 01:35:54 PM
The full debenture (security document) can be found on companies house and read in all its 61 page glory if anyone is interested.

From a quick review (2 minute scan so please do not take this as read), it would seem that MSD have fixed and floating charges over everything the group own - whether that be property, IP, debt receivables etc - basically, in the event of a default, they can appoint administrators and will recover their remaining balance against these before anyone else gets a penny back (including Tax Man and employees of the club) although an amount will have to be set aside for non secured creditors but this will be a fraction

I don't have working knowledge of football finances but this is fairly standard when borrowing monies - security is normally separated out where you have more than one lender - ie you take out a mortgage on property from one institute but borrow monies against future sale proceeds from another. If there is only one lender of finance (i think this is the case with WBA), they normally take security over everything unless they are cock sure that the asset they have charged will return their investment in a default (ie like having a 70% loan to equity value mortgage against your house)

I can send a link to the document if people want to pm me


Many thanks for your informative reply Bidbaggie!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on January 04, 2023, 01:40:01 PM
Michael Dell would probably make a better manager than Guochuan; the computers I bought off him were OK. :D
(Still have two desktops that are straightforward to get inside and add memory and solid state disc.  Maybe he can upgrade Zohore's operating system)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on January 04, 2023, 01:40:53 PM
Such a shame that the transformation on the pitch is taking place under this toxic background. I hope we can keep the momentum going despite the fact we have the worst owner in the Universe.
Keep protesting though until the loans are re-paid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 04, 2023, 01:50:26 PM
The full debenture (security document) can be found on companies house and read in all its 61 page glory if anyone is interested.

From a quick review (2 minute scan so please do not take this as read), it would seem that MSD have fixed and floating charges over everything the group own - whether that be property, IP, debt receivables etc - basically, in the event of a default, they can appoint administrators and will recover their remaining balance against these before anyone else gets a penny back (including Tax Man and employees of the club) although an amount will have to be set aside for non secured creditors but this will be a fraction

I don't have working knowledge of football finances but this is fairly standard when borrowing monies - security is normally separated out where you have more than one lender - ie you take out a mortgage on property from one institute but borrow monies against future sale proceeds from another. If there is only one lender of finance (i think this is the case with WBA), they normally take security over everything unless they are cock sure that the asset they have charged will return their investment in a default (ie like having a 70% loan to equity value mortgage against your house)

I can send a link to the document if people want to pm me

Bit like reading French for me, I can understand certain words & phrases, but not the whole document.

It certainly looks as though all bases are covered, & although player registations are not specifically mentioned, there is a reference to "undertakings", could that be player registrations?

Also, it was mentioned by a forum member & myself earlier in the conversation, would a stake in the business & a seat on the board (in the event of default) give a better return to the lender than selling individual assets?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bidbaggie on January 04, 2023, 02:15:34 PM
I would guess that player registrations would be covered under the IP/other assets part so would assume that those are tied up as well!

I think that a key thing to remember is that no lender wants the borrower to default unless you are borrowing off some shady backstreet chancers who are just lending money so they can pull the plug and get the assets on the cheap - clearly MSD are not one of these. As a general rule, lenders don't lend money unless they are confident that it will be paid back and there will have been a huge amount of financial modelling to justify that this is the case including different scenarios and stress testing. As MSD have lent, i would assume that the club have passed the relevant credit approval tests on these!

A stake and a seat might give a better return but is a longer term strategy than just realising their investment through sale/recovery of assets. It is also possible that they want someone in attendance at board meetings in a non exec role to keep an eye on things anyway.

Don't forget, over half the debt can be recovered from one place - all they need to do is find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow where the debtor has hidden it...

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2023, 02:32:06 PM
I would guess that player registrations would be covered under the IP/other assets part so would assume that those are tied up as well!

I think that a key thing to remember is that no lender wants the borrower to default unless you are borrowing off some shady backstreet chancers who are just lending money so they can pull the plug and get the assets on the cheap - clearly MSD are not one of these. As a general rule, lenders don't lend money unless they are confident that it will be paid back and there will have been a huge amount of financial modelling to justify that this is the case including different scenarios and stress testing. As MSD have lent, i would assume that the club have passed the relevant credit approval tests on these!

A stake and a seat might give a better return but is a longer term strategy than just realising their investment through sale/recovery of assets. It is also possible that they want someone in attendance at board meetings in a non exec role to keep an eye on things anyway.

Don't forget, over half the debt can be recovered from one place - all they need to do is find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow where the debtor has hidden it...

I think one extra consideration is that football-related debts take priority in an actual (Company Law) insolvency, but I’m not sure if that’s the case where a borrower defaults and security is enforced without a formal insolvent administration (although technically a company is insolvent if it can’t pay its debts as they fall due).

For MSD this is a low-risk loan in reality, because even though the risk of default might not be too low, the security is ample.  An interesting question - do you think MSD will also have taken a charge over Holdings’ 88% shareholding in Group?  That wouldn’t show up in the MSD debenture which relates to Group (and below), and I suspect only would be covered in the loan agreement (which we are unlikely to see).   I would be surprised if Lai & Co have not had to put that up as security, in lieu of a personal guarantee.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bidbaggie on January 04, 2023, 04:41:36 PM
Do you know whether football related debts are just for transfer fees or whether it also covers wages owed to players to fulfil contracts as well?

Looking at the 30/6/21 accounts (appreciate a lot has probably changed since then to the 30/6/22 set), it appears that the club owes 27m for player registrations - 12m in less than a year so have been paid by now and 15m greater than 1 year (KG I presume). Can't think of anyone we have bought for any great money in the last year so that means we would owe around 15m as at now. For context, the club was owed 1.5m less than a year and 700k more than a year.

If that whack was to be paid before MSD in the event of an insolvency it would take out a large amount of their security, but as you say, there seems ample anyway - fixed assets are in the books at 77m so a 20m loan is in effect approx a third of the book value

If you do have factor in player contract payments ahead of loan, then this would change the landscape somewhat as the annual wage bill was 77m (although that would look to halve as this is the prem figure)

To answer your question about charge over holdings shares, given the fact that the owners reside 5000 miles away in a very restrictive country and there is a history of loans being given at low rates and not paid back i would also be surprised if something hasn't been put in place. Maybe not with any real intention of having to call it in but mainly to stop any silly bollox going on with respect to dividends/loans being paid to effectively take the £20m back out!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on January 04, 2023, 04:43:26 PM
The full debenture (security document) can be found on companies house and read in all its 61 page glory if anyone is interested.

From a quick review (2 minute scan so please do not take this as read), it would seem that MSD have fixed and floating charges over everything the group own - whether that be property, IP, debt receivables etc - basically, in the event of a default, they can appoint administrators and will recover their remaining balance against these before anyone else gets a penny back (including Tax Man and employees of the club) although an amount will have to be set aside for non secured creditors but this will be a fraction

I don't have working knowledge of football finances but this is fairly standard when borrowing monies - security is normally separated out where you have more than one lender - ie you take out a mortgage on property from one institute but borrow monies against future sale proceeds from another. If there is only one lender of finance (i think this is the case with WBA), they normally take security over everything unless they are cock sure that the asset they have charged will return their investment in a default (ie like having a 70% loan to equity value mortgage against your house)

I can send a link to the document if people want to pm me

Only bit that sounds wrong there is before the revenue, I understood they have first dibs in all cases written into law.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bidbaggie on January 04, 2023, 04:48:23 PM
Only bit that sounds wrong there is before the revenue, I understood they have first dibs in all cases written into law.

Hi

My understanding is the rank goes

Secured creds with a fixed charge
Administrators fees
Preferred creds (employees first, then HMRC)
Creds with floating charge
Unsecured creds
Connected unsecured creds

Shareholders get what's left

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on January 04, 2023, 04:51:43 PM
Hi

My understanding is the rank goes

Secured creds with a fixed charge
Administrators fees
Preferred creds (employees first, then HMRC)
Creds with floating charge
Unsecured creds
Connected unsecured creds

Shareholders get what's left

Ok, I had that wrong then, thanks for the clarification
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 04, 2023, 05:47:01 PM
The charge is a catch all. It is really simple if we default on it the club will be in administration and we are in a fire sale situation and whatever we might think our assets will be very quickly consumed by the loan, administration costs and any other debts we might have.

It is imperative that we do not default no matter what it means in terms of selling players. 

This is a very sorry state for us to be in. It is not entirely obvious that an unlikely promotion fixes the situation as long the charge is sitting there and there is a chance of default (our owner has technically already defaulted on loans from the club) we have cloud hanging over us.

The best case scenario is for Lai to sell up. According to reports the club has been up for sale for a little with no firm interest and that was when it was unencumbered by debt. A £20m loan to cover operating expenses does not make it any more attractive to a potential buyer particularly if the club's asset base has been eroded to service the loan.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 04, 2023, 06:08:28 PM
Do you know whether football related debts are just for transfer fees or whether it also covers wages owed to players to fulfil contracts as well?

Looking at the 30/6/21 accounts (appreciate a lot has probably changed since then to the 30/6/22 set), it appears that the club owes 27m for player registrations - 12m in less than a year so have been paid by now and 15m greater than 1 year (KG I presume). Can't think of anyone we have bought for any great money in the last year so that means we would owe around 15m as at now. For context, the club was owed 1.5m less than a year and 700k more than a year.

If that whack was to be paid before MSD in the event of an insolvency it would take out a large amount of their security, but as you say, there seems ample anyway - fixed assets are in the books at 77m so a 20m loan is in effect approx a third of the book value

If you do have factor in player contract payments ahead of loan, then this would change the landscape somewhat as the annual wage bill was 77m (although that would look to halve as this is the prem figure)

To answer your question about charge over holdings shares, given the fact that the owners reside 5000 miles away in a very restrictive country and there is a history of loans being given at low rates and not paid back i would also be surprised if something hasn't been put in place. Maybe not with any real intention of having to call it in but mainly to stop any silly bollox going on with respect to dividends/loans being paid to effectively take the £20m back out!

Yes it was Grant (£15 million over 6 years) so probably down to £10 million now.

Just had a look at the fixed assets, tangible assets together with investment property are valued at £20.5 million. That & savings from not replacing players out of contract would probably cover the loan (including interest)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 04, 2023, 06:58:09 PM
Yes it was Grant (£15 million over 6 years) so probably down to £10 million now.

Just had a look at the fixed assets, tangible assets together with investment property are valued at £20.5 million. That & savings from not replacing players out of contract would probably cover the loan (including interest)

It should be noted that ALL transfer signings have fees paid over the several years, not just Grant. Every season we will have X amount due on previous signings and sales.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 04, 2023, 07:12:19 PM
It should be noted that ALL transfer signings have fees paid over the several years, not just Grant. Every season we will have X amount due on previous signings and sales.

Except they don't, there is no evidence from our accounts or other clubs of similar size that this is common practice.
There is evidence that payments are structured for the bigger clubs and larger transfer fees.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 04, 2023, 07:17:55 PM
If Corberan does achieve a miracle and gets this club promoted this season then the first thing this club should do prior to buying any players is to pay off this rancid loan. This is the last thing we need hanging round our necks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 04, 2023, 07:18:54 PM
If Corberan does achieve a miracle and gets this club promoted this season then the first thing this club should do prior to buying any players is to pay off this rancid loan. This is the last thing we need hanging round our necks.



Is the interest set in stone/'upfront' with these type of commercial loans or can we save interest by repaying it early does anyone know?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2023, 07:20:56 PM
Except they don't, there is no evidence from our accounts or other clubs of similar size that this is common practice.
There is evidence that payments are structured for the bigger clubs and larger transfer fees.

Sorry - not correct. Probably at least 50% of transfers at Championship level are paid installments, with many selling clubs then factoring those transfer fees via the likes of Macquarie.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 04, 2023, 07:21:36 PM


Is the interest set in stone/'upfront' with these type of commecial loans or can we save interest by repaying it early does anyone know?

I have no idea - but given it’s £5m per year then I’d like to think there’s an avenue of escape should we get promoted this season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 04, 2023, 07:23:33 PM
I have no idea - but given it’s £5m per year then I’d like to think there’s an avenue of escape should we get promoted this season.


I agree we should but even if we get promoted we need Lai to sell up for long term safety. I'm assuming he's realised taking 20m out in the form of the loan will reduce any potential offers he may receive in the event of promotion.

Good grief Lai, what a mess you have made.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2023, 07:28:59 PM
Do you know whether football related debts are just for transfer fees or whether it also covers wages owed to players to fulfil contracts as well?

Looking at the 30/6/21 accounts (appreciate a lot has probably changed since then to the 30/6/22 set), it appears that the club owes 27m for player registrations - 12m in less than a year so have been paid by now and 15m greater than 1 year (KG I presume). Can't think of anyone we have bought for any great money in the last year so that means we would owe around 15m as at now. For context, the club was owed 1.5m less than a year and 700k more than a year.

If that whack was to be paid before MSD in the event of an insolvency it would take out a large amount of their security, but as you say, there seems ample anyway - fixed assets are in the books at 77m so a 20m loan is in effect approx a third of the book value

If you do have factor in player contract payments ahead of loan, then this would change the landscape somewhat as the annual wage bill was 77m (although that would look to halve as this is the prem figure)

To answer your question about charge over holdings shares, given the fact that the owners reside 5000 miles away in a very restrictive country and there is a history of loans being given at low rates and not paid back i would also be surprised if something hasn't been put in place. Maybe not with any real intention of having to call it in but mainly to stop any silly bollox going on with respect to dividends/loans being paid to effectively take the £20m back out!

I’m not sure of the exact definition (will look it up later) but transfer fees and obligations to players are definitely included. 

Any charge over the shares would be surely a charge given by the new (clean) Jersey holding company over its 88% shareholding in Group (UK company), which makes it really easy to structure and enforce.  I suspect this was the real reason for forming and interposing that new Jersey company.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2023, 07:34:40 PM
The charge is a catch all. It is really simple if we default on it the club will be in administration and we are in a fire sale situation and whatever we might think our assets will be very quickly consumed by the loan, administration costs and any other debts we might have.

It is imperative that we do not default no matter what it means in terms of selling players. 

This is a very sorry state for us to be in. It is not entirely obvious that an unlikely promotion fixes the situation as long the charge is sitting there and there is a chance of default (our owner has technically already defaulted on loans from the club) we have cloud hanging over us.

The best case scenario is for Lai to sell up. According to reports the club has been up for sale for a little with no firm interest and that was when it was unencumbered by debt. A £20m loan to cover operating expenses does not make it any more attractive to a potential buyer particularly if the club's asset base has been eroded to service the loan.

I disagree.  A default gives MSD the right (but not the obligation) to put the company into administration.  In practice, they would exercise their security, take control, inject extra funds of their own and look to sell the club outside of administration at a price which gets them their money owed, while Yunyai take a huge haircut.  It would not be in MSD’s interests at all to put the club into administration if they are only owed less than £30m and there are buyers out there for in excess of that sum.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2023, 07:37:03 PM


Is the interest set in stone/'upfront' with these type of commercial loans or can we save interest by repaying it early does anyone know?

All of MSD’s loans are at fixed rates, linked to the coupons payable on loan notes listed on The International Stock Exchange (the Channel Islands exchange). 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 04, 2023, 07:37:54 PM
All of MSD’s loans are at fixed rates, linked to the coupons payable on loan notes listed on The International Stock Exchange (the Channel Islands exchange).


Thanks OB
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: GrumpyBaggie on January 04, 2023, 07:41:51 PM
According to https://www.celebsagewiki.com/lai-guochuan
"His net worth has been growing significantly in 2021-2022. So, how much is Lai Guochuan worth at the age of 48 years old? Lai Guochuan’s income source is mostly from being a successful Entrepreneur. He is from Chinese. We have estimated Lai Guochuan's net worth , money, salary, income, and assets.
Net Worth in 2022    Â£2.8 Billion
"

If this is correct then £5million should be chicken feed to him - so why the reluctance to pay back the loan, is it just the old the more I have the more I want syndrome?

celebsagewiki also gives his twitter account as https://twitter.com/laiguochuan?lang=en - which has been suspended by Twitter.

Do we have any Chinese savvy Baggies who could point the way to a campaign on Chinese social media?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2023, 07:44:50 PM
According to https://www.celebsagewiki.com/lai-guochuan
"His net worth has been growing significantly in 2021-2022. So, how much is Lai Guochuan worth at the age of 48 years old? Lai Guochuan’s income source is mostly from being a successful Entrepreneur. He is from Chinese. We have estimated Lai Guochuan's net worth , money, salary, income, and assets.
Net Worth in 2022    Â£2.8 Billion
"

If this is correct then £5million should be chicken feed to him - so why the reluctance to pay back the loan, is it just the old the more I have the more I want syndrome?

celebsagewiki also gives his twitter account as https://twitter.com/laiguochuan?lang=en - which has been suspended by Twitter.

Do we have any Chinese savvy Baggies who could point the way to a campaign on Chinese social media?

That’s utter *********.  Fake news.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BB74 on January 04, 2023, 08:04:50 PM
I would have thought even if he wants to pay it back he may face obstacles from the Chinese banks (and government) to send an international transfer for a UK Sports entity.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 04, 2023, 08:34:19 PM
I would have thought even if he wants to pay it back he may face obstacles from the Chinese banks (and government) to send an international transfer for a UK Sports entity.

China is one of the UK biggest trading partner, circa £100 billion of trade every year - there isn't any issue with a business in China sending a payment to a business in the UK - the only fault line is the owner's reluctance to pay the club back what he owes, don't let him hide behind fake jurisdiction points.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 04, 2023, 08:49:23 PM
Sorry - not correct. Probably at least 50% of transfers at Championship level are paid installments, with many selling clubs then factoring those transfer fees via the likes of Macquarie.

That would show as more than one year on the creditors side of the balance sheet & generally I'm not seeing it on Championship Club accounts.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Black Pearl on January 04, 2023, 08:59:39 PM
You would hope that if he sniffs chances of promotion, he may yet back the club and manager properly, a long shot I know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 04, 2023, 09:02:35 PM
You would hope that if he sniffs chances of promotion, he may yet back the club and manager properly, a long shot I know.


You'd like to think so but it's Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 04, 2023, 09:21:52 PM
If the club defaults MDH aren't going to run the club. They are certainly not going to put more money into to it in the hope that there is a buyer out there who will repay the loan and an additional premium. They will simply put the club into administration and let the administrators sort out payment bearing in mind they are at the head of the queue.

Equally they won't need to get involved in the recovery of the outstanding loans to Lai in a jurisdiction that might not be entirely straight forward to litigate in.

A default on this loan is bad, very bad.

I think we can abandon any thoughts of Lai funding a real tilt at promotion let's face it has missed two deadlines on a loan repayment to the club. Any money that is spent from now on is the MDH loan. How quickly we burn it and to what effect is now the sub plot to every significant financial commitment the club makes. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 04, 2023, 09:29:56 PM
A man with no morals nor ideas
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2023, 10:27:03 PM
I would have thought even if he wants to pay it back he may face obstacles from the Chinese banks (and government) to send an international transfer for a UK Sports entity.

Wisdom Smart is a Hong Kong company, not mainland Chinese, so it ought to be able to be funded.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2023, 10:28:42 PM
China is one of the UK biggest trading partner, circa £100 billion of trade every year - there isn't any issue with a business in China sending a payment to a business in the UK - the only fault line is the owner's reluctance to pay the club back what he owes, don't let him hide behind fake jurisdiction points.

But it’s not a Chinese business which owes money to the club, it’s a Hong Kong company (which is big the same thing).  The Chinese will not allow a Chinese company to settle a foreign debt which is not actually a debt of the Chinese company
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2023, 10:30:23 PM
That would show as more than one year on the creditors side of the balance sheet & generally I'm not seeing it on Championship Club accounts.

I have seen it on several, but there haven’t been many sizeable transfers in the Championship since COVID arrived
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 04, 2023, 10:33:22 PM
If the club defaults MDH aren't going to run the club. They are certainly not going to put more money into to it in the hope that there is a buyer out there who will repay the loan and an additional premium. They will simply put the club into administration and let the administrators sort out payment bearing in mind they are at the head of the queue.

Equally they won't need to get involved in the recovery of the outstanding loans to Lai in a jurisdiction that might not be entirely straight forward to litigate in.

A default on this loan is bad, very bad.

I think we can abandon any thoughts of Lai funding a real tilt at promotion let's face it has missed two deadlines on a loan repayment to the club. Any money that is spent from now on is the MDH loan. How quickly we burn it and to what effect is now the sub plot to every significant financial commitment the club makes.

It’s very rare that I disagree with any of your posts but I disagree here.  MSD wouldn’t want to own the club but they’d increase the loan to stave off administration and arrange a sale.    This isn’t last-ditch funding.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionfan1983 on January 05, 2023, 08:40:51 AM
It’s very rare that I disagree with any of your posts but I disagree here.  MSD wouldn’t want to own the club but they’d increase the loan to stave off administration and arrange a sale.    This isn’t last-ditch funding.

Like they did with Derby?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on January 05, 2023, 09:43:25 AM
I’m not sure of the exact definition (will look it up later) but transfer fees and obligations to players are definitely included. 

Any charge over the shares would be surely a charge given by the new (clean) Jersey holding company over its 88% shareholding in Group (UK company), which makes it really easy to structure and enforce.  I suspect this was the real reason for forming and interposing that new Jersey company.

The "new Jersey Holding company": that is WBA Holdings right or have I missed something?

Are you saying that WBA Holdings will enforce the charge on assets in administration?  How easy would that be to transfer such monies to Yunyi Guokan less what he owes WBA Group?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 05, 2023, 10:34:08 AM
Like they did with Derby?

Derby was on a different level of debt.  Mel Morris had two companies which had run up loans of nearly £200m to Derby.  It was an absolute basket-case, massively insolvent. 

We have zero external debt other than what’s owed on transfer fees, plus lots of unencumbered assets.  We aren’t insolvent but we have a cash flow shortage.  Right now, the £20m loan money is matched by the £20m in cash until it is used, and the £12m or so owed TO the club covers what we owe on transfers.  It is abundantly clear why MSD would not put more money into Derby - they’d have lost it.  They aren’t fools.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 05, 2023, 10:38:36 AM
The "new Jersey Holding company": that is WBA Holdings right or have I missed something?

Are you saying that WBA Holdings will enforce the charge on assets in administration?  How easy would that be to transfer such monies to Yunyi Guokan less what he owes WBA Group?

There is a new Jersey company which owns Yunyai’s 88% stake in Group. It was interposed between their existing UK holding company and Group a few months ago.  It doesn’t affect in any way Lai’s ability to take money out - that power still rests with Club Limited and Group Limited.  It merely makes it neater and cleaner for MSD to take security for their loan.  It also makes it neater and cleaner for a future buyer of the club to purchase it by acquiring the Jersey company.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 05, 2023, 11:20:27 AM
There is a new Jersey company which owns Yunyai’s 88% stake in Group. It was interposed between their existing UK holding company and Group a few months ago.  It doesn’t affect in any way Lai’s ability to take money out - that power still rests with Club Limited and Group Limited.  It merely makes it neater and cleaner for MSD to take security for their loan.  It also makes it neater and cleaner for a future buyer of the club to purchase it by acquiring the Jersey company.

Think you and me are on the same page on this, I could easily see this being sold to an American Investor.

It's only recently, I've realised that Lai paid £200 million for the "WBA Brand", not the nuts & bolts.
WBAFC's history makes it a very marketable brand, & a percentage of the business for £20 million would be a good buy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jordie1471 on January 05, 2023, 11:38:27 AM
Think you and me are on the same page on this, I could easily see this being sold to an American Investor.

It's only recently, I've realised that Lai paid £200 million for the "WBA Brand", not the nuts & bolts.
WBAFC's history makes it a very marketable brand, & a percentage of the business for £20 million would be a good buy.

The thing is West Brom, like a lot of football clubs are operating at consistent losses due to the rapid wage inflation outstripping revenue increases.

So any perspective owners really needs to fall into one or several of three categories

1) Have no interest in buying the club as a monetary investment and see it instead as a political move - (See Newcastle take over)

2) Have no interest in buying the club as a monetary investment and the billionaire sees it as a passion/ ego driven play thing - see Roman Abramovich

3) A belief that the publicity and legislative gains of owning the football club can help increase profitability in other business ventures making the loss making football club worthwhile
 
All in all the whole industry is now sitting in a really precarious 'bubble' of sorts
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on January 05, 2023, 11:48:26 AM
The thing is West Brom, like a lot of football clubs are operating at consistent losses due to the rapid wage inflation outstripping revenue increases.

So any perspective owners really needs to fall into one or several of three categories

1) Have no interest in buying the club as a monetary investment and see it instead as a political move - (See Newcastle take over)

2) Have no interest in buying the club as a monetary investment and the billionaire sees it as a passion/ ego driven play thing - see Roman Abramovich

3) A belief that the publicity and legislative gains of owning the football club can help increase profitability in other business ventures making the loss making football club worthwhile
 
All in all the whole industry is now sitting in a really precarious 'bubble' of sorts

Has been for a while though so can't imagine that will change anytime soon. So long as 1's and 2's keep popping up there is no reason for the bubble for burst.

Our hope, as has been for a while, is one of those is interested in us.

On a separate note, is Lai a director of all the WBA group companies?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 05, 2023, 12:10:43 PM
The thing is West Brom, like a lot of football clubs are operating at consistent losses due to the rapid wage inflation outstripping revenue increases.

So any perspective owners really needs to fall into one or several of three categories

1) Have no interest in buying the club as a monetary investment and see it instead as a political move - (See Newcastle take over)

2) Have no interest in buying the club as a monetary investment and the billionaire sees it as a passion/ ego driven play thing - see Roman Abramovich

3) A belief that the publicity and legislative gains of owning the football club can help increase profitability in other business ventures making the loss making football club worthwhile
 
All in all the whole industry is now sitting in a really precarious 'bubble' of sorts

I'd suggest you take a look at the accounts.

We made our first loss in years in season 19/20, last year we made a small profit.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on January 05, 2023, 01:37:30 PM
There is a new Jersey company which owns Yunyai’s 88% stake in Group. It was interposed between their existing UK holding company and Group a few months ago.  It doesn’t affect in any way Lai’s ability to take money out - that power still rests with Club Limited and Group Limited.  It merely makes it neater and cleaner for MSD to take security for their loan.  It also makes it neater and cleaner for a future buyer of the club to purchase it by acquiring the Jersey company.

Thanks - that's reassuring to some extent.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 05, 2023, 02:29:38 PM
But it’s not a Chinese business which owes money to the club, it’s a Hong Kong company (which is big the same thing).  The Chinese will not allow a Chinese company to settle a foreign debt which is not actually a debt of the Chinese company

Whichever way you slice it, it is not that complicated. Wisdom Smart, a company controlled by Lai took on the loan and Wisdom Smart have the obligation to repay it; they are registered in Hong Kong, fine, that makes no material difference.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jordie1471 on January 05, 2023, 02:37:21 PM
I'd suggest you take a look at the accounts.

We made our first loss in years in season 19/20, last year we made a small profit.

We made a loss in that year of 23.4 million.

The season before we made a loss of 6.6 million

The season before we made a loss of 7.4 million

source - the companies house accounts
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbawill on January 05, 2023, 04:16:04 PM
I remember hearing about an American group that wanted to buy the club for about £50m. I understand why Lai wouldn't enjoy the idea of selling for 25% of the amount he paid but the club isn't getting any more valuable here. He massively overpaid originally and as the club takes on all this debt, the sale value is diminishing. It's just his ego and stubbornness at this point, and he's dragging us down with him. He has no interest in being the owner, sell the frigging club!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 05, 2023, 04:20:04 PM
I remember hearing about an American group that wanted to buy the club for about £50m. I understand why Lai wouldn't enjoy the idea of selling for 25% of the amount he paid but the club isn't getting any more valuable here. He massively overpaid originally and as the club takes on all this debt, the sale value is diminishing. It's just his ego and stubbornness at this point, and he's dragging us down with him. He has no interest in being the owner, sell the frigging club!

Dread to think where another 5 years of Lai would take us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 05, 2023, 04:40:49 PM
Has been for a while though so can't imagine that will change anytime soon. So long as 1's and 2's keep popping up there is no reason for the bubble for burst.

Our hope, as has been for a while, is one of those is interested in us.

On a separate note, is Lai a director of all the WBA group companies?

He’s certainly not a member of Group board (which is interesting) because Ken is the sole director, but is definitely on the Club board
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 05, 2023, 04:42:16 PM
I'd suggest you take a look at the accounts.

We made our first loss in years in season 19/20, last year we made a small profit.

Absolutely correct.  I think at one stage under Peace (and first couple of years under Lai) we made a profit 10 years in succession and only Arsenal could match that
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 05, 2023, 04:45:21 PM
We made a loss in that year of 23.4 million.

The season before we made a loss of 6.6 million

The season before we made a loss of 7.4 million

source - the companies house accounts

We made an operational profit every year until 2019/20 season.

The losses in 2018/19 were due to losses in player trading (we spent more on incoming players than we received on outgoing players). What I'm not sure about is if this includes transfer fees, or is just the costs involved in carrying out the transfer.

Losses in 2017/18 were due to reduction in media related income & an exceptional level of player amortisation.

There is nothing to suggest that WBAFC historic income to wages ratio is out of control.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bidbaggie on January 05, 2023, 05:14:24 PM
We made an operational profit every year until 2019/20 season.

The losses in 2018/19 were due to losses in player trading (we spent more on incoming players than we received on outgoing players). What I'm not sure about is if this includes transfer fees, or is just the costs involved in carrying out the transfer.

Losses in 2017/18 were due to reduction in media related income & an exceptional level of player amortisation.

There is nothing to suggest that WBAFC historic income to wages ratio is out of control.

Whichever way you dress it up, they were still losses though - ie the club has less retained profits at the end of the year than at the start

Apologies if i have misunderstood your post but your point that says about player trading losses due to spending more on new players than monies received for those we have sold - this isnt correct - this figure is a write down of all the player valuations we have on our books (whether old or new) plus or minus the profit/loss on the ones that have left in that period.

I can explain more if you want with examples of what i mean but it would probably bore the flaps off most people



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jordie1471 on January 05, 2023, 05:35:54 PM
We made an operational profit every year until 2019/20 season.

The losses in 2018/19 were due to losses in player trading (we spent more on incoming players than we received on outgoing players). What I'm not sure about is if this includes transfer fees, or is just the costs involved in carrying out the transfer.

Losses in 2017/18 were due to reduction in media related income & an exceptional level of player amortisation.

There is nothing to suggest that WBAFC historic income to wages ratio is out of control.

I'm not disputing we made small regular profits in the years 2010-2016. A period where we were;
a) In the premier league
b) Consistently having one of the smallest wage bill in the division

I will reserve more judgement until the June 2022 accounts are actually submitted, but being as our most recent Championship season accounts (June 2020) showed a loss of 23.4 million, I am not expecting these accounts be posting a profit.

Just fyi I have just again jumped into the mostly recently filed group accounts (our parent company). Per the consolidated balance sheet

Cash at bank as at June 2021 - £2.7 million
Cash at bank as at June 2020 - £14.2 million

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 05, 2023, 06:12:23 PM
I'm not disputing we made small regular profits in the years 2010-2016. A period where we were;
a) In the premier league
b) Consistently having one of the smallest wage bill in the division

I will reserve more judgement until the June 2022 accounts are actually submitted, but being as our most recent Championship season accounts (June 2020) showed a loss of 23.4 million, I am not expecting these accounts be posting a profit.

Just fyi I have just again jumped into the mostly recently filed group accounts (our parent company). Per the consolidated balance sheet

Cash at bank as at June 2021 - £2.7 million
Cash at bank as at June 2020 - £14.2 million


This is the statement I'm challenging

Quote
The thing is West Brom, like a lot of football clubs are operating at consistent losses due to the rapid wage inflation outstripping revenue increases.


There is no evidence to suggest that our income to wages ratio is negative.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 05, 2023, 06:27:22 PM
Whichever way you dress it up, they were still losses though - ie the club has less retained profits at the end of the year than at the start

Apologies if i have misunderstood your post but your point that says about player trading losses due to spending more on new players than monies received for those we have sold - this isnt correct - this figure is a write down of all the player valuations we have on our books (whether old or new) plus or minus the profit/loss on the ones that have left in that period.

I can explain more if you want with examples of what i mean but it would probably bore the flaps off most people

What I meant was the profit/loss against the book value of the player, which is entered on the P/L statement. I though write downs were recognised on the balance sheet?

You can dm me on it, if you think it's a boring topic for most people

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tegga on January 10, 2023, 07:10:10 PM
Is it the Year of the Rat?
The Chinese New year 22nd January and it's the year of the rabbit, let's hope he pulls more than a rabbit out of the hat. More like the money he owes.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 11, 2023, 08:12:48 AM
Adrian Goldberg has posted an interesting article on Twitter identifying that up to 80 separate investors have a stake in the club, including the Chinese Government, financial arms from two regions, and a Singaporean bank. Lai has put very little money in himself and is merely ‘managing’ the investment on behalf of others

What a mess.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on January 11, 2023, 08:42:10 AM
Adrian Goldberg has posted an interesting article on Twitter identifying that up to 80 separate investors have a stake in the club, including the Chinese Government, financial arms from two regions, and a Singaporean bank. Lai has put very little money in himself and is merely ‘managing’ the investment on behalf of others

What a mess.

Am i right in saying that at any time these investors could simply pull out due to the problems Lai is having?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 11, 2023, 08:53:40 AM
Am i right in saying that at any time these investors could simply pull out due to the problems Lai is having?

It occurred to me that Lai may have borrowed the money to pay off investors who wanted out. This is probably like any investment you could make on the markets or with an Investment company, when the going is good then everyone is happy but when things start to go pear shaped then at least you have the option of damage limitation and cashing out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on January 11, 2023, 09:03:35 AM
It occurred to me that Lai may have borrowed the money to pay off investors who wanted out. This is probably like any investment you could make on the markets or with an Investment company, when the going is good then everyone is happy but when things start to go pear shaped then at least you have the option of damage limitation and cashing out.

Good god that first line sounds ominous. What a mess if this is right!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 11, 2023, 09:14:05 AM
For perspective S4A, who represent 12% of WBA Group, have 430 investors.

Any of Lai's group could pull-out by selling their shares, but it wouldn't change the value of the total shareholding.

Personally, I'm finding it really difficult to understand how Lai isn't a key investor in Yunyi Guokai SSDC. I  would need some serious persuasion to put in a larger stake than the person who's leading (and making decisions) on behalf of the group.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 11, 2023, 09:18:30 AM
It occurred to me that Lai may have borrowed the money to pay off investors who wanted out. This is probably like any investment you could make on the markets or with an Investment company, when the going is good then everyone is happy but when things start to go pear shaped then at least you have the option of damage limitation and cashing out.

You do if you can persuade someone to buy your shares.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 11, 2023, 09:42:14 AM
You do if you can persuade someone to buy your shares.

Perhaps that’s what he borrowed the money for....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 11, 2023, 10:31:22 AM
For perspective S4A, who represent 12% of WBA Group, have 430 investors.

Any of Lai's group could pull-out by selling their shares, but it wouldn't change the value of the total shareholding.

Personally, I'm finding it really difficult to understand how Lai isn't a key investor in Yunyi Guokai SSDC. I  would need some serious persuasion to put in a larger stake than the person who's leading (and making decisions) on behalf of the group.

The difference there John is that we know who those 430 investors are, we don't really know much about the Chinese side.

If you look back at the news releases in 2016, nobody had heard of Lai, either here or in China, but he rocked up with the biggest bag of cash and the rest is history. Of course there was one person who could have asked about the provenance of the investment........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 11, 2023, 11:24:55 AM
The difference there John is that we know who those 430 investors are, we don't really know much about the Chinese side.

If you look back at the news releases in 2016, nobody had heard of Lai, either here or in China, but he rocked up with the biggest bag of cash and the rest is history. Of course there was one person who could have asked about the provenance of the investment........

I've got a small share portfolio which is being overseen by an account manager. I haven't got a clue what companies I am investing in, or they in who I am, that's the way it works.
The Lai consortium is being portrayed as something sinister, when, IMO, it looks perfectly legitimate.

Allegedly JP paid lawyers & accountants a princely sum of money to test the provenance of the investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 11, 2023, 03:03:11 PM
For perspective S4A, who represent 12% of WBA Group, have 430 investors.

Any of Lai's group could pull-out by selling their shares, but it wouldn't change the value of the total shareholding.

Personally, I'm finding it really difficult to understand how Lai isn't a key investor in Yunyi Guokai SSDC. I  would need some serious persuasion to put in a larger stake than the person who's leading (and making decisions) on behalf of the group.

He is the biggest investor with in excess of 55%, but that doesn’t mean that everything registered in his name is his.  He could be a nominee for all of some of that investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 11, 2023, 03:04:30 PM
You do if you can persuade someone to buy your shares.

Correct - for unlisted closed-ended investment vehicles you can’t just pull your money out, you need to find a buyer for your investment. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 11, 2023, 03:06:24 PM
I've got a small share portfolio which is being overseen by an account manager. I haven't got a clue what companies I am investing in, or they in who I am, that's the way it works.
The Lai consortium is being portrayed as something sinister, when, IMO, it looks perfectly legitimate.

Allegedly JP paid lawyers & accountants a princely sum of money to test the provenance of the investment.

Not in this case.  This is an investment vehicle set up to hold just one investment.  There is no diversification.  These investors were clearly brought together to invest in buying this club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 11, 2023, 03:38:48 PM
Not in this case.  This is an investment vehicle set up to hold just one investment.  There is no diversification.  These investors were clearly brought together to invest in buying this club.

I accept the technicality, but the make up of the Lai consortium is being portrayed as sinister in some quarters.
Although the loan from the football club & the earlier report of under the table dealings in the MP sale are concerning, in principle, there's nothing wrong with having a number of smaller investors in a consortium.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 11, 2023, 03:45:50 PM
Not in this case.  This is an investment vehicle set up to hold just one investment.  There is no diversification.  These investors were clearly brought together to invest in buying this club.


Sounds like a SPAC in stock market teams. A shell company/group created to absorb another existing business
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbawill on January 11, 2023, 04:11:33 PM
It's not every day you come to a football forum and end up reading a detailed discussion of the technicalities of investment practices and law  ;D whatever the fine details of his ownership of the club, it sure seems like he's flat out broke. I wonder how the Chinese culture of honour reacts to a bloke unable to pay back money he owed more than a year after he was supposed to pay it back! Must not be doing his reputation any favours.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 11, 2023, 05:18:29 PM

Sounds like a SPAC in stock market teams. A shell company/group created to absorb another existing business

No.  A SPAC is when you don’t even know what the investment will be (a “football club” rather than a named club).  This structure was set up specifically to buy West Brom.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 11, 2023, 05:19:33 PM
I accept the technicality, but the make up of the Lai consortium is being portrayed as sinister in some quarters.
Although the loan from the football club & the earlier report of under the table dealings in the MP sale are concerning, in principle, there's nothing wrong with having a number of smaller investors in a consortium.

Agree 100%.   I wonder how much they have told though about the unpaid loans…
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 11, 2023, 05:25:08 PM
No.  A SPAC is when you don’t even know what the investment will be (a “football club” rather than a named club).  This structure was set up specifically to buy West Brom.


Not true. I've invested in Spac's knowing what the 'new' SPAC name is and knowing what existing non-listed company it will absorb.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 11, 2023, 05:47:31 PM
It's not every day you come to a football forum and end up reading a detailed discussion of the technicalities of investment practices and law  ;D whatever the fine details of his ownership of the club, it sure seems like he's flat out broke. I wonder how the Chinese culture of honour reacts to a bloke unable to pay back money he owed more than a year after he was supposed to pay it back! Must not be doing his reputation any favours.

Normally I wouldn't react, but I've been a member of this forum for some time now, &, IMO, it's by far the best organised West Bromwich Albion forum there is.

There are loads of opportunities to discuss football related issues, including one on systems, tactics & personell. For somebody who can just about make out two lines of 4 on a football pitch, I have learned a lot from that topic.

We have members who are professional statisticians who can help to explain statistical & kpi analyses related to football.

We also have some members who have played the game at a high level who bring their experience to the forum.

Football ownership, finance & geo-politics play a massive part in the performance of a modern football club, so surely it makes sense for members who have experience in buiness, law & accounts to add their two penneth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wbawill on January 11, 2023, 06:08:15 PM
Normally I wouldn't react, but I've been a member of this forum for some time now, &, IMO, it's by far the best organised West Bromwich Albion forum there is.

There are loads of opportunities to discuss football related issues, including one on systems, tactics & personell. For somebody who can just about make out two lines of 4 on a football pitch, I have learned a lot from that topic.

We have members who are professional statisticians who can help to explain statistical & kpi analyses related to football.

We also have some members who have played the game at a high level who bring their experience to the forum.

Football ownership, finance & geo-politics play a massive part in the performance of a modern football club, so surely it makes sense for members who have experience in buiness, law & accounts to add their two penneth.

Absolutely, I think it's great that there are people who can interpret this kind of thing - Lai could publish the financial details in English or Mandarin, it would make the same amount of sense to me. Though I do look forward to a time we have an owner than doesn't make scrutinising the books part and parcel of being a football fan!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 11, 2023, 09:30:42 PM
Adrian Goldberg has posted an interesting article on Twitter identifying that up to 80 separate investors have a stake in the club, including the Chinese Government, financial arms from two regions, and a Singaporean bank. Lai has put very little money in himself and is merely ‘managing’ the investment on behalf of others

What a mess.

If thats the case theres 80 owners owning small percentages each one. Then surely as fans we can attempt to buy out some of the smaller ownership percentages and wrestle back control?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 11, 2023, 10:42:25 PM
Adrian Goldberg has posted an interesting article on Twitter identifying that up to 80 separate investors have a stake in the club, including the Chinese Government, financial arms from two regions, and a Singaporean bank. Lai has put very little money in himself and is merely ‘managing’ the investment on behalf of others

What a mess.


The image Goldberg has shared is quite interesting.

It suggests that Yunyi GSDL  is by owned by three investment groups.

Shanghai Yunyiye Investment Management Center, which holds a 20.94%.
Shanghai Yunjin Investment Management Center which holds 55.10%
Shanghai  Yitongweikai Investment Management Center, which holds 23.97%.

The graph seems to then sprout off and show detail of the ownership of each of those three companies, which is where entities like the Chinese state and Singaporean bank come in  (as does our chairman who seems to owns a percentage of Yitongweikai IMC)

However, it needs some further translation.

Personally, I think it’s more bad news.  If for example Yunyiye is an investment arm for an entire province of shanghai, id expect they have a huge portfolio. Their 20% would have been worth about 35m when lai bought us, but that will be chicken feed in the Chinese economy.  They generally might not give a **** about losing 35m.

If a bank owns 10% of one of those, they have a couple of million chucked in to us. It’s nothing in the global banking market.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on January 11, 2023, 10:47:33 PM
Normally I wouldn't react, but I've been a member of this forum for some time now, &, IMO, it's by far the best organised West Bromwich Albion forum there is.

There are loads of opportunities to discuss football related issues, including one on systems, tactics & personell. For somebody who can just about make out two lines of 4 on a football pitch, I have learned a lot from that topic.

We have members who are professional statisticians who can help to explain statistical & kpi analyses related to football.

We also have some members who have played the game at a high level who bring their experience to the forum.

Football ownership, finance & geo-politics play a massive part in the performance of a modern football club, so surely it makes sense for members who have experience in buiness, law & accounts to add their two penneth.

Pray tell who it is that’s played the game at a high level. I’m intrigued.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 12, 2023, 08:24:36 AM
Pray tell who it is that’s played the game at a high level. I’m intrigued.


It's up to them to reveal who they are.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on January 12, 2023, 12:44:28 PM
Pray tell who it is that’s played the game at a high level. I’m intrigued.

i took a beach ball up snowdon once  ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on January 12, 2023, 12:52:54 PM
Anyone on here who has kicked a ball at the Hawthorns...don't forget we are the highest ground (above sea level) in the country !!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on January 12, 2023, 12:58:14 PM

The image Goldberg has shared is quite interesting.

It suggests that Yunyi GSDL  is by owned by three investment groups.

Shanghai Yunyiye Investment Management Center, which holds a 20.94%.
Shanghai Yunjin Investment Management Center which holds 55.10%
Shanghai  Yitongweikai Investment Management Center, which holds 23.97%.

The graph seems to then sprout off and show detail of the ownership of each of those three companies, which is where entities like the Chinese state and Singaporean bank come in  (as does our chairman who seems to owns a percentage of Yitongweikai IMC)

However, it needs some further translation.

Personally, I think it’s more bad news.  If for example Yunyiye is an investment arm for an entire province of shanghai, id expect they have a huge portfolio. Their 20% would have been worth about 35m when lai bought us, but that will be chicken feed in the Chinese economy.  They generally might not give a **** about losing 35m.

If a bank owns 10% of one of those, they have a couple of million chucked in to us. It’s nothing in the global banking market.

It could be regarded as good news.  If the loss of £35M is chickenfeed to them, they won't be too bothered about selling at a loss?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 12, 2023, 01:35:39 PM

Not true. I've invested in Spac's knowing what the 'new' SPAC name is and knowing what existing non-listed company it will absorb.

It’s obvious that you would know what the name of the SPAC is - that wasn’t my point.  At the IPO stage target acquisitions are not named or announced and if you knew the name of the target at the IPO stage then you shouldn’t have done! 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 12, 2023, 01:40:11 PM
It’s obvious that you would know what the name of the SPAC is - that wasn’t my point.  At the IPO stage target acquisitions are not named or announced and if you knew the name of the target at the IPO stage then you shouldn’t have done!

Things get leaked I guess is all I can. The company would be listed in the SPAC sector on the brokers which is my point.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 12, 2023, 08:31:36 PM
Things get leaked I guess is all I can. The company would be listed in the SPAC sector on the brokers which is my point.

Slightly crossed purposes I think.  The SPAC itself isn’t the issue.  The SPAC raises money for a “purpose” of making an acquisition in a specific industry or sector but if at the time of soliciting for investors the target acquisition for the SPAC to invest into is named then that falls foul of securities regulations.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 12, 2023, 09:38:16 PM
Slightly crossed purposes I think.  The SPAC itself isn’t the issue.  The SPAC raises money for a “purpose” of making an acquisition in a specific industry or sector but if at the time of soliciting for investors the target acquisition for the SPAC to invest into is named then that falls foul of securities regulations.

At the very, very initial formation of the SPAC then i do not know of course. Only the people forming it have the idea in their heads however i've invested in multiple SPACs before the public IPO whilst knowing who they intend to buy. The risk element there is that the company purchase does not take place. I like to take 10-15% profit and run personally before it all gets too serious.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 12, 2023, 11:55:54 PM
At the very, very initial formation of the SPAC then i do not know of course. Only the people forming it have the idea in their heads however i've invested in multiple SPACs before the public IPO whilst knowing who they intend to buy. The risk element there is that the company purchase does not take place. I like to take 10-15% profit and run personally before it all gets too serious.

That’s not supposed to happen re disclosing the target pre-IPO, but hey-ho

Too risky for me as an investment but I did nearly set one up about 3 years ago.  COVID thwarted it and I suspect that was a blessing in disguise!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 13, 2023, 08:10:06 AM
That’s not supposed to happen re disclosing the target pre-IPO, but hey-ho

Too risky for me as an investment but I did nearly set one up about 3 years ago.  COVID thwarted it and I suspect that was a blessing in disguise!

Glad you did not lose out! I stay away from them now as fingers were definitely burnt on one occasion!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 13, 2023, 08:10:58 AM
Meanwhile, in China........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 13, 2023, 08:30:47 AM

The image Goldberg has shared is quite interesting.

It suggests that Yunyi GSDL  is by owned by three investment groups.

Shanghai Yunyiye Investment Management Center, which holds a 20.94%.
Shanghai Yunjin Investment Management Center which holds 55.10%
Shanghai  Yitongweikai Investment Management Center, which holds 23.97%.

The graph seems to then sprout off and show detail of the ownership of each of those three companies, which is where entities like the Chinese state and Singaporean bank come in  (as does our chairman who seems to owns a percentage of Yitongweikai IMC)

However, it needs some further translation.

Personally, I think it’s more bad news.  If for example Yunyiye is an investment arm for an entire province of shanghai, id expect they have a huge portfolio. Their 20% would have been worth about 35m when lai bought us, but that will be chicken feed in the Chinese economy.  They generally might not give a **** about losing 35m.

If a bank owns 10% of one of those, they have a couple of million chucked in to us. It’s nothing in the global banking market.

Just had a look at the diagram.

It does look as though Yunyi GSDL is supported by a number of institutions, both National & Regional.
I agree that a global bank would consider the investment peanuts, but aren't these institutions set up in China specifically to support projects like Lai's?
My guess is, the institutions collectively have a sizeable stake, & that's why he's struggling to sell.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 13, 2023, 08:33:15 AM
Meanwhile, in China........

Lai and co are asleep at the wheel
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on January 13, 2023, 10:03:55 AM
Anyone on here who has kicked a ball at the Hawthorns...don't forget we are the highest ground (above sea level) in the country !!
Being that I care little for in-depth financial gobbledygook, I can’t say I’ve kicked a ball at the shrine, but I did install the team shelters at the academy. Now, back to SPACs and other stuff.  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 13, 2023, 10:46:45 AM
Weirdly enough just started my new job as debt advisor this week and currently learning about charges against secured assets etc

In a few years I may have some knowledge to dispense on Lais mishandling of the club but I'd hope things don't get that bad
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on January 13, 2023, 11:23:51 AM
Business folks,

If the company (WBA) is owned by such a disparate group as the digging around seems to have identified with Mr Lai as its figure head, is Lai likely to be empowered to sell the company at a significant loss? Could one of the entities with a stake block a sale?

How does this structure appear to a potential buyer, to myself (who knows nothing of M&A processes) it seems that it would put me off knowing that I am dealing with someone who has to get approval from all sorts of people / organisations, or is he (Lai) in same position as the chairman of a publically listed company owned by shareholders?

keep it simple please :-)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 13, 2023, 11:45:58 AM
Business folks,

If the company (WBA) is owned by such a disparate group as the digging around seems to have identified with Mr Lai as its figure head, is Lai likely to be empowered to sell the company at a significant loss? Could one of the entities with a stake block a sale?

How does this structure appear to a potential buyer, to myself (who knows nothing of M&A processes) it seems that it would put me off knowing that I am dealing with someone who has to get approval from all sorts of people / organisations, or is he (Lai) in same position as the chairman of a publically listed company owned by shareholders?

keep it simple please :-)

I don't know how this sits legally, both here & in China, but.............

If the Chinese institutions have a significant stake, they will take a long term view & not authorise a loss making sale.
We don't know the details of the contracts within the consortium, but you can bet the institutions will have a water-tight case to protect their investments.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on January 13, 2023, 01:16:49 PM
I think it's fair to suggest we have a fairly opaque ownership structure. With that in mind it makes me wonder what questions were asked by the powers that be before the sale went through, what answers they were given and whether they have any more questions they'd like to ask now.

Because as a none business person on the outside looking in our sale makes a mockery of the fit and proper person's test. If I were in a position of football administrative authority I'd be going over old ground with a very fine tooth comb. I'd hate to think someone hadn't done a thorough job.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on January 13, 2023, 03:24:36 PM
I think it's fair to suggest we have a fairly opaque ownership structure. With that in mind it makes me wonder what questions were asked by the powers that be before the sale went through, what answers they were given and whether they have any more questions they'd like to ask now.

Because as a none business person on the outside looking in our sale makes a mockery of the fit and proper person's test. If I were in a position of football administrative authority I'd be going over old ground with a very fine tooth comb. I'd hate to think someone hadn't done a thorough job.

Great comment Smeth. As someone without an ounce of big business knowledge I'm finding this thread increasingly bewildering...and frankly terrifying! I'm just praying that our upturn of fortunes on the pitch attracts the attention of potential buyers from a less complex background!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: bedfordbaggie on January 13, 2023, 08:01:28 PM
It’d there is Chinese gov involvement
A ground full of Taiwanese flags should do the trick
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 13, 2023, 08:15:35 PM
Business folks,

If the company (WBA) is owned by such a disparate group as the digging around seems to have identified with Mr Lai as its figure head, is Lai likely to be empowered to sell the company at a significant loss? Could one of the entities with a stake block a sale?

How does this structure appear to a potential buyer, to myself (who knows nothing of M&A processes) it seems that it would put me off knowing that I am dealing with someone who has to get approval from all sorts of people / organisations, or is he (Lai) in same position as the chairman of a publically listed company owned by shareholders?

keep it simple please :-)

Here goes.

Yunyai (company) owns 87.8% of Group, so Yunyai controls Group.

Who controls Yunyai?

The large number of investors are grouped into 3 limited partnerships.  The largest owns 55% of Yunyai, so that limited partnership controls Yunyai.

Who controls that limited partnership?

The general partner has all the voting rights of the limited partnership.  (Limited partners have no voting rights, just economic rights).  Lai is the general partner.

So Lai controls the biggest shareholder in Yunyai, which controls Group.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 13, 2023, 10:19:43 PM
Here goes.

Yunyai (company) owns 87.8% of Group, so Yunyai controls Group.

Who controls Yunyai?

The large number of investors are grouped into 3 limited partnerships.  The largest owns 55% of Yunyai, so that limited partnership controls Yunyai.

Who controls that limited partnership?

The general partner has all the voting rights of the limited partnership.  (Limited partners have no voting rights, just economic rights).  Lai is the general partner.

So Lai controls the biggest shareholder in Yunyai, which controls Group.

Good summary, Lai is the biggest bag holder in this Ponzi scheme. The only question outstanding for me, is the terms of the co-investors, have they been promised a dividend yield, which is hidden from view, that Lai is servicing with loans etc.

As for posters wondering what questions were asked when the deal was done, I'm confident only one condition mattered to JP, which was proof of funds. Peace clearly had no care or interest whatsoever how Lai funded the deal. He could have got Kim Jong-un on board to put $100m in, it would not have mattered.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on January 13, 2023, 11:23:17 PM
Yeah but what questions did the FA/Premier League ask?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 13, 2023, 11:26:46 PM
It’d there is Chinese gov involvement
A ground full of Taiwanese flags should do the trick

Probably would get the attention at the top we are trying to attract
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 14, 2023, 08:47:55 AM
Here goes.

Yunyai (company) owns 87.8% of Group, so Yunyai controls Group.

Who controls Yunyai?

The large number of investors are grouped into 3 limited partnerships.  The largest owns 55% of Yunyai, so that limited partnership controls Yunyai.

Who controls that limited partnership?

The general partner has all the voting rights of the limited partnership.  (Limited partners have no voting rights, just economic rights).  Lai is the general partner.

So Lai controls the biggest shareholder in Yunyai, which controls Group.

If I'm understanding the analysis correctly, Lai has the controling stake in the group that controls Yunyai?
We know that Palm (assuming Lai = Palm) invested £30 million from their website, doing the maths, it's difficult to see how Holdings was sold for £180 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 14, 2023, 10:16:54 AM
If I'm understanding the analysis correctly, Lai has the controling stake in the group that controls Yunyai?
We know that Palm (assuming Lai = Palm) invested £30 million from their website, doing the maths, it's difficult to see how Holdings was sold for £180 million.

Not so much the controlling “stake” but the controlling “vote”.

I don’t think it’s possible to do the maths based on what Palm invested.  There’s too many blind alleyways and we don’t know to what extent Lai is using nominees to hold “his” investment.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 14, 2023, 10:29:02 AM
Good summary, Lai is the biggest bag holder in this Ponzi scheme. The only question outstanding for me, is the terms of the co-investors, have they been promised a dividend yield, which is hidden from view, that Lai is servicing with loans etc.

As for posters wondering what questions were asked when the deal was done, I'm confident only one condition mattered to JP, which was proof of funds. Peace clearly had no care or interest whatsoever how Lai funded the deal. He could have got Kim Jong-un on board to put $100m in, it would not have mattered.

I agree Peace only cared about his fund, but it’s not a ponzi scheme.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 14, 2023, 10:59:50 AM
Lai isn't a very good owner. He paid too much money for the club. He has jeopardised the future of the club by securing an expensive loan against the assets of the club. He has loaned himself or related parties money that he has twice failed to repay. These are largely indisputable facts.

Anything else is just largely uninformed speculation. As much as we might like to think there is some shady bond villain sitting in their secret lair stroking a Persian Cat masterminding the whole affair there probably isn't. Frankly there is just one lead player Lai plus a bunch of associates who bought this particular turkey off Peace and are rapidly running out of ideas as to how to extract themselves from a very ill-considered venture.

For the record again this is the current ownership structure (extrapolated from the one piece of public domain information that is available i.e. the Palm stock exchange announcement)   

Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited own 88% (£188m)
Minority Shareholders own 12% (£22.56m)

Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited is in turn owned as follows

Lai 59% (£110m)
Yunyi Investment 23% (£43m)
Palm 18% (£34m)

The ownership is probably stuck for about 60% of their initial investment.

The club will be sold or put into administration at some point in the future for a fraction of what Lai paid for it. His best case scenario is an unlikely promotion and a quick sale for about £100m. Everything else is worse much worse for both owner and club. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on January 14, 2023, 05:14:37 PM
Good summary, Lai is the biggest bag holder in this Ponzi scheme. The only question outstanding for me, is the terms of the co-investors, have they been promised a dividend yield, which is hidden from view, that Lai is servicing with loans etc.

As for posters wondering what questions were asked when the deal was done, I'm confident only one condition mattered to JP, which was proof of funds. Peace clearly had no care or interest whatsoever how Lai funded the deal. He could have got Kim Jong-un on board to put $100m in, it would not have mattered.

But also it isn't Peace's job to care where the funds come from, it is the league's job to ensure the entity taking over is considered fit to run a football club. If I was selling a business my main concern would also be.. do you have the funds? certainly not where the cash came from
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 14, 2023, 06:42:49 PM
Lai isn't a very good owner. He paid too much money for the club. He has jeopardised the future of the club by securing an expensive loan against the assets of the club. He has loaned himself or related parties money that he has twice failed to repay. These are largely indisputable facts.

Anything else is just largely uninformed speculation. As much as we might like to think there is some shady bond villain sitting in their secret lair stroking a Persian Cat masterminding the whole affair there probably isn't. Frankly there is just one lead player Lai plus a bunch of associates who bought this particular turkey off Peace and are rapidly running out of ideas as to how to extract themselves from a very ill-considered venture.

For the record again this is the current ownership structure (extrapolated from the one piece of public domain information that is available i.e. the Palm stock exchange announcement)   

Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited own 88% (£188m)
Minority Shareholders own 12% (£22.56m)

Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited is in turn owned as follows

Lai 59% (£110m)
Yunyi Investment 23% (£43m)
Palm 18% (£34m)

The ownership is probably stuck for about 60% of their initial investment.

The club will be sold or put into administration at some point in the future for a fraction of what Lai paid for it. His best case scenario is an unlikely promotion and a quick sale for about £100m. Everything else is worse much worse for both owner and club.

Just to be clear are you saying that’s the current share ownership structure or that’s what it was at the time of purchase?  Because the current position is different
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on January 14, 2023, 07:39:02 PM
Just to be clear are you saying that’s the current share ownership structure or that’s what it was at the time of purchase?  Because the current position is different

Yes unless there has been an official announcement of significant change in shareholders or ownership and I have missed it hasn't changed. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on January 14, 2023, 07:54:07 PM
But also it isn't Peace's job to care where the funds come from, it is the league's job to ensure the entity taking over is considered fit to run a football club. If I was selling a business my main concern would also be.. do you have the funds? certainly not where the cash came from

Got to be careful what I’m saying because I’m deeply ITK when it comes to the running of the League.  However, the crucial point to understand is that the EFL is a club, not a regulator or quango.  It’s powers are given to it by its members.   There have been lots of attempts to tighten governance around due diligence or fair play but the owners (who are also the members), don’t want anything that will limit their ability to spend their own money as they wish and then monetise their asset when they wish.  Think about it this way; if you live on a street that forms a residents committee and they want to vet who comes to live there that sounds like a good idea and in everyone’s interests right?  Keep the riff-raff away so everyone has a nicer life.  But what if someone wants to pay you massively over the market price for your house?  At that point selfishness takes over and you just want to sell to the highest bidder and the chairman of the residents committee can bugger off if he wants to stop you from making a fortune…
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 14, 2023, 08:18:26 PM
Yes unless there has been an official announcement of significant change in shareholders or ownership and I have missed it hasn't changed.

I’ve got all the latest (translated) Chinese registry filings - there are various changes to what you’ve stated there
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on January 14, 2023, 08:30:00 PM
I’ve got all the latest (translated) Chinese registry filings - there are various changes to what you’ve stated there

It’s never been any different to the current filing either.

insider media reported the three owners when Yunyi originally bought us.

https://www.insidermedia.com/news/midlands/peace-agrees-west-brom-sale-and-steps-down
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: billvis on January 14, 2023, 09:15:53 PM
It’d there is Chinese gov involvement
A ground full of Taiwanese flags should do the trick
Haven't posted on the forum for years because I've felt so down about the way the club was going, having been very negative on the Lai deal at the outset. This is an absolutely brilliant idea though and would really push buttons in all the right places.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 14, 2023, 10:41:17 PM
It’s never been any different to the current filing either.

insider media reported the three owners when Yunyi originally bought us.

https://www.insidermedia.com/news/midlands/peace-agrees-west-brom-sale-and-steps-down

That article is more correct although the percentages have changed.  The 3 ownership percentages are now 55%, 23.97% and 20.94%.

The big difference is that Lai “controls” the 55% shareholder (by being the general partner of the limited partner and therefore has the voting shares) but he does not own 55%. There are hundreds of ultimate investors in that limited partnership.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 15, 2023, 12:23:15 PM
That article is more correct although the percentages have changed.  The 3 ownership percentages are now 55%, 23.97% and 20.94%.

The big difference is that Lai “controls” the 55% shareholder (by being the general partner of the limited partner and therefore has the voting shares) but he does not own 55%. There are hundreds of ultimate investors in that limited partnership.

Which goes to show that he is not the billionaire new owner that Jeremy Peace pretended he was selling the club to, to move us on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on January 15, 2023, 12:39:05 PM
Waving the Taiwanese flag is a deep provocation and would be regarded as a serious insult.  It might ensure that Yunyi Guokai is frozen from doing anything with the club. but leaving it in limbo.
The US and UK do not officially recognise Taiwan - just support its system of government.  We should not meddle with politics or rile the Dragon (pick a fight with China as a whole) but rather keep up the attacks on Lai Guochuan's mismanagement of his investors affairs and suggest his relinquish them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on January 15, 2023, 01:10:58 PM
Waving the Taiwanese flag is a deep provocation and would be regarded as a serious insult.  It might ensure that Yunyi Guokai is frozen from doing anything with the club. but leaving it in limbo.
The US and UK do not officially recognise Taiwan - just support its system of government.  We should not meddle with politics or rile the Dragon (pick a fight with China as a whole) but rather keep up the attacks on Lai Guochuan's mismanagement of his investors affairs and suggest his relinquish them.

In fairness, the current Lai 'protests' have done absolutely zero and will continue to do so. I'm not saying to flash Taiwan flags but it would certainly gain attention.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 15, 2023, 01:59:30 PM
Which goes to show that he is not the billionaire new owner that Jeremy Peace pretended he was selling the club to, to move us on.

It doesn’t mean that he isn’t (or wasn’t) a billionaire in his own right, merely that it’s not only his money involved.  He might be, he might not be, but he’s the front-man and controller of the consortium.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 15, 2023, 04:06:00 PM
It doesn’t mean that he isn’t (or wasn’t) a billionaire in his own right, merely that it’s not only his money involved.  He might be, he might not be, but he’s the front-man and controller of the consortium.

I obviously know that; but look at the anecdotal evidence of him being desperate enougth to take £5m out of the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 15, 2023, 04:07:23 PM
I obviously know that; but look at the anecdotal evidence of him being desperate enougth to take £5m out of the club.

Let’s just say that I don’t think he’s as wealthy as he once (possibly) was!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on January 15, 2023, 04:29:39 PM
the fact that he is willing to take money out of the club (possibly on more than one occasion) suggests he is not the wealthy billionaire JP sold us. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 15, 2023, 04:35:09 PM
Lai's wealth is not important really as he said from day 1 it would be run in the same self-sustaining manner as Peace had run it. That was his first lie.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on January 15, 2023, 05:02:21 PM
When does ‘early in the New Year’ finish?!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on January 15, 2023, 05:06:33 PM
Perhaps he's taking money out of our club because he can
Maybe he cant take any out of whatever businesses he is supposed to own, because they may be in debt ant the money is for either propping up these businesses or for ferreting away for himself before the balloon goes up, which i suspect is only at roof level atm
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 15, 2023, 05:29:59 PM
Lai's wealth is not important really as he said from day 1 it would be run in the same self-sustaining manner as Peace had run it. That was his first lie.

His first Lai, surely.

Lots of lais, tbh. He's gone from having so much money, that he was "speculating" £7m on Zhang to now borrowing from us.

So his wealth, if he had any, has gone and we are really screwed if he's only condition on the sale of the club is that he wants his money back (reported on wba news).

It's like him buying a golf club and smashing the hell out of it and then going to the shop 7 years later, saying here's my receipt and saying I want my money back.

You aren't going to get it back you fool.

Even if were promoted I don't believe even with a double the size of Bournemouth's fan base, he would get what their owner got.

Regarding the the fan base, for those that believe the scumbag was right not building a new Halfords, when we had the prem money, the recent attendances, in an unprecedented cost of living crisis, shows how we have the fans to get over 30,000 if we had owners, he just didn't take from, let alone throw hundreds of millions at us like our neighbours.

Our owners have held us back, with "mid championship club" statements being made to so we feel grateful for his stewardship of the club, whilst ignoring our great history and our position in football over time, which is mid premier league.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on January 15, 2023, 05:36:21 PM
I do agree with you regarding " mid table championship club" that statement from Peace is akin to Gerald Ratner former owner of H Samuels saying that the jewelry that his company sold "was total rubbish"
In a top position in a company watch your mouth because words are important and people remember them
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 15, 2023, 07:16:11 PM
I do agree with you regarding " mid table championship club" that statement from Peace is akin to Gerald Ratner former owner of H Samuels saying that the jewelry that his company sold "was total rubbish"
In a top position in a company watch your mouth because words are important and people remember them

I think that what Peace was saying was that without further investment - which he was in no position to provide - the club would be a mid-Championship club.  In truth that’s probably right - as indeed it probably is for around 15-20 clubs.   It costs a lot of money to stay in the Premier League even if it’s possible to get up without it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tegga on January 15, 2023, 07:37:04 PM
When does ‘early in the New Year’ finish?!  ;D
If Lai is talking about the Chinese New Year, it don't start till 22nd Jan.

Year of the rabbit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 15, 2023, 09:04:46 PM
I think that what Peace was saying was that without further investment - which he was in no position to provide - the club would be a mid-Championship club.  In truth that’s probably right - as indeed it probably is for around 15-20 clubs.   It costs a lot of money to stay in the Premier League even if it’s possible to get up without it.

Then why did he sell to someone who said it was "business as usual" then?

If we are going to guess what he meant, let's look at what the person he sold us to said as well.

You don't need vast amounts of money to stay in the prem as, we did it for a number of year without it and paid Peace £1m a year and give him a loan to buy up more shares, which he had no intention of paying.

It takes a plan (Brentford) and somebody who actually cares about the club rather than their cash laden exit plan.

If you reply, please try to curb the patronising tone, like in last week's exchange where you felt it necessary to explain to me the difference between the burden of proof for civil and criminal law.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 16, 2023, 12:00:34 AM
Then why did he sell to someone who said it was "business as usual" then?

If we are going to guess what he meant, let's look at what the person he sold us to said as well.

You don't need vast amounts of money to stay in the prem as, we did it for a number of year without it and paid Peace £1m a year and give him a loan to buy up more shares, which he had no intention of paying.

It takes a plan (Brentford) and somebody who actually cares about the club rather than their cash laden exit plan.

If you reply, please try to curb the patronising tone, like in last week's exchange where you felt it necessary to explain to me the difference between the burden of proof for civil and criminal law.

Ok - I’ll try not to “patronise”….

Peace saying what he believes is necessary to avoid being a mid-Championship club is a separate issue from him selling to somebody offering him probably 30-40% more than it was worth.  I doubt there’s many people out there who would turn down such a premium, no matter what they may have said previously.  We can of course criticise him for that, and perhaps rightly so, but it’s a different issue.

Big sums ARE required to stay up for any length of time.  Brentford look very likely to get a 3rd season and it’s fantastic to see, but it doesn’t guarantee a 4th. The law of the jungle always catches us with smaller clubs in the Premiership. Their best players or an over-achieving manager will inevitably get picked off, but Brentford and Brighton are certainly showing the “old guard” what’s needed re talent ID and recruitment.  I love it, and right now they are where we were under Clarke/Hodgson.  Maybe it’s the start of a new era where smaller clubs CAN compete, but the bigger clubs will just keep spending even more. 

I agree that both of their owners put the club first, but there’s one crucial difference between them and Peace.  Tony Bloom was already extremely wealthy and had already lent Brighton £200m.  Matthew Benham likewise but lower values.  Peace on the other hand was not a separately wealthy man.  In fact he’s about the only person I know who made his first fortune from owning a club, so he never had money to put into the club because it was all tied up in “paper” until he sold.

I would have actually preferred Peace to have stayed involved and found an investment partner to put in funding that he couldn’t.  A bit like the chap who has bought a 30% stake at West Ham and lent them some money (which they’ve wasted!).  But I think any prospects of that went out of the window when Lai threw a ridiculous sum of money at him that he probably couldn’t believe.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 17, 2023, 05:21:44 AM
Ok - I’ll try not to “patronise”….

Peace saying what he believes is necessary to avoid being a mid-Championship club is a separate issue from him selling to somebody offering him probably 30-40% more than it was worth.  I doubt there’s many people out there who would turn down such a premium, no matter what they may have said previously.  We can of course criticise him for that, and perhaps rightly so, but it’s a different issue.

Big sums ARE required to stay up for any length of time.  Brentford look very likely to get a 3rd season and it’s fantastic to see, but it doesn’t guarantee a 4th. The law of the jungle always catches us with smaller clubs in the Premiership. Their best players or an over-achieving manager will inevitably get picked off, but Brentford and Brighton are certainly showing the “old guard” what’s needed re talent ID and recruitment.  I love it, and right now they are where we were under Clarke/Hodgson.  Maybe it’s the start of a new era where smaller clubs CAN compete, but the bigger clubs will just keep spending even more. 

I agree that both of their owners put the club first, but there’s one crucial difference between them and Peace.  Tony Bloom was already extremely wealthy and had already lent Brighton £200m.  Matthew Benham likewise but lower values.  Peace on the other hand was not a separately wealthy man.  In fact he’s about the only person I know who made his first fortune from owning a club, so he never had money to put into the club because it was all tied up in “paper” until he sold.

I would have actually preferred Peace to have stayed involved and found an investment partner to put in funding that he couldn’t.  A bit like the chap who has bought a 30% stake at West Ham and lent them some money (which they’ve wasted!).  But I think any prospects of that went out of the window when Lai threw a ridiculous sum of money at him that he probably couldn’t believe.

I totally disagree, we stayed up for 8 years with all our record signings basically failing, because we made some bad recruitment decisions and we didn't generate anything significant regarding player sales apart from berahino's £12m. Good managers and some very good cheap recruitment kept us up using only money generated from being in the prem, and no investment from the Jersey baldy boy, so a lot of money wasn't needed then or now.

We said no to a £5m loan fee for Rom and then he went for £28m to Everton on a permanent deal and then sold to Manchester United for about £70m.

No risk was taken or owner investment given by us in trying to get Rom and we would never have spent £28m on him, yet we stayed up on good frees and low priced foreign players.

Only when we started making stupid signings on loan and permanently on and bad managers did we go down.

The actions of Forest this season and Fulham a few seasons (spending £30m on Seri etc, etc) shows lots of money guarantee's you nothing.

A good owner with a plan, and a good  manager and recruitment can stay in the prem for very long periods.

The big 6 clubs spend "lots" to win the league and champions league, etc, etc.

However, anything can happen to the other 14 clubs in the prem regarding relegation in most seasons, as West Ham and Everton are showing now having spent vast sums, and spending lots of money (badly)  hasn't helped them avoid being relegation candidates.

There are a lot of Americans buying into prem clubs, who aren't fools like Lai, and know that a well run club doesn't need lots of money to be spent, it just needs good management and recruitment and the money generated lets them make a profit.

So imo relegation can happen to most teams in any season and spending lots isn't necessary to avoid it though  for the aforementioned reasons.







Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 17, 2023, 05:50:39 AM
I totally disagree, we stayed up for 8 years with all our record signings basically failing, because we made some bad recruitment decisions and we didn't generate anything significant regarding player sales apart from berahino's £12m. Good managers and some very good cheap recruitment kept us up using only money generated from being in the prem, and no investment from the Jersey baldy boy, so a lot of money wasn't needed then or now.

We said no to a £5m loan fee for Rom and then he went for £28m to Everton on a permanent deal and then sold to Manchester United for about £70m.

No risk was taken or owner investment given by us in trying to get Rom and we would never have spent £28m on him, yet we stayed up on good frees and low priced foreign players.

Only when we started making stupid signings on loan and permanently on and bad managers did we go down.

The actions of Forest this season and Fulham a few seasons (spending £30m on Seri etc, etc) shows lots of money guarantee's you nothing.

A good owner with a plan, and a good  manager and recruitment can stay in the prem for very long periods.

The big 6 clubs spend "lots" to win the league and champions league, etc, etc.

However, anything can happen to the other 14 clubs in the prem regarding relegation in most seasons, as West Ham and Everton are showing now having spent vast sums, and spending lots of money (badly)  hasn't helped them avoid being relegation candidates.

There are a lot of Americans buying into prem clubs, who aren't fools like Lai, and know that a well run club doesn't need lots of money to be spent, it just needs good management and recruitment and the money generated lets them make a profit.

So imo relegation can happen to most teams in any season and spending lots isn't necessary to avoid it though  for the aforementioned reasons.

Not sure where you got your information regarding Lukaku, but as the late Queen said, ‘recollections may vary’.

We never said no to Lukaku, we loaned him from Chelsea and he became an instant hit,  we arranged a further loan for him the following season and on transfer deadline line the club even produced the news release etc, however Everton got him at the 11th hour and we ended up with ‘sick note’ Anichebe from them. The following season Everton bought him from Chelsea.

I remember that day well as I was gutted when I heard the news.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 17, 2023, 12:53:07 PM
I totally disagree, we stayed up for 8 years with all our record signings basically failing, because we made some bad recruitment decisions and we didn't generate anything significant regarding player sales apart from berahino's £12m. Good managers and some very good cheap recruitment kept us up using only money generated from being in the prem, and no investment from the Jersey baldy boy, so a lot of money wasn't needed then or now.

We said no to a £5m loan fee for Rom and then he went for £28m to Everton on a permanent deal and then sold to Manchester United for about £70m.

No risk was taken or owner investment given by us in trying to get Rom and we would never have spent £28m on him, yet we stayed up on good frees and low priced foreign players.

Only when we started making stupid signings on loan and permanently on and bad managers did we go down.

The actions of Forest this season and Fulham a few seasons (spending £30m on Seri etc, etc) shows lots of money guarantee's you nothing.

A good owner with a plan, and a good  manager and recruitment can stay in the prem for very long periods.

The big 6 clubs spend "lots" to win the league and champions league, etc, etc.

However, anything can happen to the other 14 clubs in the prem regarding relegation in most seasons, as West Ham and Everton are showing now having spent vast sums, and spending lots of money (badly)  hasn't helped them avoid being relegation candidates.

There are a lot of Americans buying into prem clubs, who aren't fools like Lai, and know that a well run club doesn't need lots of money to be spent, it just needs good management and recruitment and the money generated lets them make a profit.

So imo relegation can happen to most teams in any season and spending lots isn't necessary to avoid it though  for the aforementioned reasons.

You do make several valid points there.  We have certainly done far better with cheap signings and/or loans than when we’ve spent big money.

You are correct that even spending big money doesn’t guarantee survival, although spending very little money usually accelerates a return to the Championship within one or two seasons for newly promoted sides.

At least a dozen Premier League clubs each season are very realistically exposed to relegation if they have a poor 3-month run.  Even teams currently on 27/28 points could easily be near the trapdoor in May.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 17, 2023, 04:36:50 PM
Not sure where you got your information regarding Lukaku, but as the late Queen said, ‘recollections may vary’.

We never said no to Lukaku, we loaned him from Chelsea and he became an instant hit,  we arranged a further loan for him the following season and on transfer deadline line the club even produced the news release etc, however Everton got him at the 11th hour and we ended up with ‘sick note’ Anichebe from them. The following season Everton bought him from Chelsea.

I remember that day well as I was gutted when I heard the news.

Have another read of what I wrote and you'll see we said no to paying the £5m loan fee Everton agreed to pay, and I didn't say we didn't try to get him.

We all remember that day clearly with the sky sports reporter stating he was coming back to us until Everton offered Chelsea a £5m loan fee which we didn't match.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on January 17, 2023, 05:37:38 PM
If we manage to get promoted what are we likely to be worth to a buyer? I know it won't be £200m. And has Lai actually stated he wants his money back in full, or is this just hearsay?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 17, 2023, 05:47:43 PM
If we manage to get promoted what are we likely to be worth to a buyer? I know it won't be £200m. And has Lai actually stated he wants his money back in full, or is this just hearsay?


When we went up last time under Bilic think he was offered in region of 120-130m for his 88% and he said no if i recall.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on January 17, 2023, 05:57:26 PM
Maybe we have more chance of getting rid of Lai if we don't go up.  At some point, he must crystallise his losses before they become worse..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 17, 2023, 10:23:24 PM
Fair play to this mascot tonight  ;D


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmtG18PXkAEa9TM?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 17, 2023, 10:28:54 PM
That pic is just brilliant. Good kid!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 17, 2023, 10:45:47 PM
Fair play to this mascot tonight  ;D


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmtG18PXkAEa9TM?format=jpg&name=large)

That kid has done more in an Albion shirt in a few minutes than ken sopoor  has done in 4 years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on January 17, 2023, 10:57:10 PM
Maybe we have more chance of getting rid of Lai if we don't go up.  At some point, he must crystallise his losses before they become worse..

I'm not convinced of that at all. It's more likely the club will end up battling relegation to league 1, teeter on the edge of administration or end up under some transfer embargo like half the division seems to have been under post CoVID. Clubs with the same or even arguably more appeal like Derby, Blues, Sheff Wednesday, Cardiff, Charlton and even Blackburn have all struggled to sell and have had ownerships bumble along for years, ruining their potential to compete.

The only way staying down = Lai going, from what I can see is if we end up in administration and he is forced to sell that way.

Our beat bet is getting back to the Premier league, maybe staying up somehow and then Lai running off with around £120m-£130m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 18, 2023, 09:29:10 AM
Have another read of what I wrote and you'll see we said no to paying the £5m loan fee Everton agreed to pay, and I didn't say we didn't try to get him.

We all remember that day clearly with the sky sports reporter stating he was coming back to us until Everton offered Chelsea a £5m loan fee which we didn't match.

I get your point Balispen and your post makes a few valid points and observations, but I don't think many of us saw the 'none signing' of Lukaku as a significant point in our development. We were lucky to see him at our club and it would have been wonderful to see him back, but we were gazumped at the 11th hour by Everton. If you look at this thread at the time, the loan fee that Everton paid was said to be £8m, not £5m. We would have been stupid to agree to pay that for a loan player that we would have absolutely no chance of signing on a permanent deal, and many posters on here at the time thought the same.

If the board said no to paying that fee then for me that was the correct decision given who we are and where we were at the time. Its very easy to spend someone else's money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ABaggie on January 18, 2023, 01:27:01 PM
Fair play to this mascot tonight  ;D


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmtG18PXkAEa9TM?format=jpg&name=large)

The kid needs to look behind for the answer
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on January 19, 2023, 09:52:26 AM
I'm glad you read my original post again.

Yes, the board were definitely correct in saying no to a 20 year old who had just scored 16 in the prem, and instead wasting £5m on injury prone sick vic. Instead of sanctioning the Rom deal it was correct for us, that the "board" sanctioned scumbag Peace's loan to himself of £4m and the £1m a year he paid himself as well. It was also,definitely correct that the "board" said yes to buying t urd after t urd like unproven in the prem, Ideye Brown, on whom we lost £4m after just one season with us.

Furthermore, please tell me where we were, as you say, and at what stage would we need to be at for you deem a decision by the board to make that Lukaku signing?

As I remember it, we had finished in our highest position in over 30 years and been in the prem a few years. The money gained for just finishing 8th would have paid the loan fee on its own. The loan had an option to buy and the loan fee (£5m) was to be taken off the sale price (£28m) if the option to buy was activated, as I recall.

Also, if it's someone else's money why do you post on threads about money like this Lai one, as according to you that's his money isn't it?

I didn't.

In 2012/13 we did indeed finish 8th under Steve Clarke and with Lukaku in the side. Once Everton came in I am not sure we stood a chance of signing him for the following season, not only due to the fee but the fact that Everton could offer him European football.

With regard to where we needed to be, we needed to be in Everton's position. They had plenty of money and ambition. They had European ambitions and top 6 finishes, whereas we were happy to tread water and survive.  In 2012/13 they spent £17m, whereas we spent £3.5m (our net spend was actually £0.00). Everton's spending since has always increased, and they are now regularly spending £110m + per season [gross]. We never even came close to anything that they spent. So at the time, we were never going to break our transfer record by paying £5 or £8m on a loan with no intention to buy. Furthermore, Peace was never going to spend £20m+ on a player. I agree with you that what happened after was disastrous, both with the subsequent purchases and poor managerial appointments. A more ambitious chairman with the club at heart would have secured the services of Lukaku and built a team around him, but as we now know Peace had his own agenda.

I don't actually understand your last sentence. How many times have you seen posts on here like 'we need to buy a centre forward, we need two new midfielders, we need six new players' etc, all valid points but unrealistic given our financial dilemma. I am not sure how my comments regarding Lai's financial shenanigans relate to this.

   
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on January 19, 2023, 05:28:55 PM
The club was not a turkey when it was sold, however the club management has been responsible for our demise most importantly the buying of players, overpriced, poor quality, long and expensive player contacts and poor team managers

Of course Lai is the overseer of this and has to take ultimate responsibility
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on January 20, 2023, 12:23:20 AM
I didn't.

In 2012/13 we did indeed finish 8th under Steve Clarke and with Lukaku in the side. Once Everton came in I am not sure we stood a chance of signing him for the following season, not only due to the fee but the fact that Everton could offer him European football.

With regard to where we needed to be, we needed to be in Everton's position. They had plenty of money and ambition. They had European ambitions and top 6 finishes, whereas we were happy to tread water and survive.  In 2012/13 they spent £17m, whereas we spent £3.5m (our net spend was actually £0.00). Everton's spending since has always increased, and they are now regularly spending £110m + per season [gross]. We never even came close to anything that they spent. So at the time, we were never going to break our transfer record by paying £5 or £8m on a loan with no intention to buy. Furthermore, Peace was never going to spend £20m+ on a player. I agree with you that what happened after was disastrous, both with the subsequent purchases and poor managerial appointments. A more ambitious chairman with the club at heart would have secured the services of Lukaku and built a team around him, but as we now know Peace had his own agenda.

I don't actually understand your last sentence. How many times have you seen posts on here like 'we need to buy a centre forward, we need two new midfielders, we need six new players' etc, all valid points but unrealistic given our financial dilemma. I am not sure how my comments regarding Lai's financial shenanigans relate to this.

 

Maybe you should have read it properly the first time then, as then you wouldn't have wasted your time  mentioning  the Queen and how memories vary or whatever it was, when clearly I had said we had tried to sign Rom.

Treading water?

OK, if you say so.

Personally, I would have said we were primed to kick, if we had the board led by baldy wasn't so pathetic at most things, including recruitment.

Rom to sick vic was like going from the sublime to the ridiculous.

Regarding the it's easy spending other people's you said, mor me, I don't have problem with giving their opinion who they think needs signing.

You, still haven't answered the question though, if not then, when would be the right time in your eyes to invest in a 20 year old striker who had just scored 16 in his first season in the prem and stop buying terrible unproven players like Brown or sick nobodies like sick vic?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 20, 2023, 11:06:34 AM
Maybe you should have read it properly the first time then, as then you wouldn't have wasted your time  mentioning  the Queen and how memories vary or whatever it was, when clearly I had said we had tried to sign Rom.

Treading water?

OK, if you say so.

Personally, I would have said we were primed to kick, if we had the board led by baldy wasn't so pathetic at most things, including recruitment.

Rom to sick vic was like going from the sublime to the ridiculous.

Regarding the it's easy spending other people's you said, mor me, I don't have problem with giving their opinion who they think needs signing.

You, still haven't answered the question though, if not then, when would be the right time in your eyes to invest in a 20 year old striker who had just scored 16 in his first season in the prem and stop buying terrible unproven players like Brown or sick nobodies like sick vic?

I was gutted when Lukaku didn't re-sign but the reality is that Everton were a more attractive option for him; they were a bigger club with more financial fire power. Could Jeremy Peace have done more to get the deal done? Maybe, we will never know, but I not surprised we got gazumped, which reflected our position in the Premier League pecking order.

Maybe move the topic back onto the current owner who JP lumbered us with? That was his worst crime.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on January 20, 2023, 11:26:37 AM
Doesn't look like the loan is going to be repaid any time soon then, nor the inherited loan that Peace lumbered him with. Remind me someone, what is the latest £20 million pound loan meant to be for?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on January 20, 2023, 02:24:32 PM
Do not read if of a nervous disposition  :o

https://adriangoldberg.substack.com/p/albions-latest-chinese-puzzle?sd=pf
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on January 20, 2023, 03:06:50 PM
I was gutted when Lukaku didn't re-sign but the reality is that Everton were a more attractive option for him; they were a bigger club with more financial fire power. Could Jeremy Peace have done more to get the deal done? Maybe, we will never know, but I not surprised we got gazumped, which reflected our position in the Premier League pecking order.

Maybe move the topic back onto the current owner who JP lumbered us with? That was his worst crime.

At that time Lukaku would have been an ambitious man. Doubt very much he would have stayed. We provided him with a stepping which he took.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on January 20, 2023, 03:15:05 PM
the book that Goldberg is writing on this is going to be one hell of a complex and horrible read isn't it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Adamstv on January 20, 2023, 03:33:26 PM
Do not read if of a nervous disposition  :o

https://adriangoldberg.substack.com/p/albions-latest-chinese-puzzle?sd=pf

So does Lai actually own anything. Can’t see anything in the story to give me any comfort whatsoever that the loan will be repaid. Smoke and glass.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on January 20, 2023, 05:39:59 PM
Do not read if of a nervous disposition  :o

https://adriangoldberg.substack.com/p/albions-latest-chinese-puzzle?sd=pf

I'm sure the financial specialists on the forum will correct me if I'm wrong, but, as I understand it, there isn't a single company database in China.
Hong Kong is one of many, normally identified by region or City.

Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited, is registered in Shanghai, & Palm Eco town in Guangzhou.

Not saying, Goldberg is wrong, but I would have thought Wisdom Smart would have been registered in either Shanghai or Guangzhou.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on January 20, 2023, 06:45:01 PM
I'm sure the financial specialists on the forum will correct me if I'm wrong, but, as I understand it, there isn't a single company database in China.
Hong Kong is one of many, normally identified by region or City.

Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited, is registered in Shanghai, & Palm Eco town in Guangzhou.

Not saying, Goldberg is wrong, but I would have thought Wisdom Smart would have been registered in either Shanghai or Guangzhou.

Hong Kong and the many Chinese provinces all have separate company registries.

Wisdom Smart is 100% a Hong Kong company.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SirTonyM on January 30, 2023, 01:34:05 PM
I assume the money isn't coming for our January transfer window? I'm sure he promised we would get it >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2023, 01:41:08 PM
I assume the money isn't coming for our January transfer window? I'm sure he promised we would get it >:(

We got the 20m in the bank. As Ron is so confident Lai is repaying it we just use other 5m allocated for transfers now
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba1993dave on January 30, 2023, 05:22:22 PM
His Quotes
The upturn in the global economy has brought with it greater positivity and I can confirm I will repay the loan in full, with interest, by the end of the current calendar year and the funds will be available to the club during the January 2023 transfer window," Lai said

What a chancer this guy is. Disgraceful. >:( >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2023, 07:03:32 PM
His Quotes
The upturn in the global economy has brought with it greater positivity and I can confirm I will repay the loan in full, with interest, by the end of the current calendar year and the funds will be available to the club during the January 2023 transfer window," Lai said

What a chancer this guy is. Disgraceful. >:( >:(

I agree 99%.

The 1% I am reserving is on the basis that Lai has / is paying the money back and the club do not want to announce that until the transfer window has closed to avoid tipping the other clubs and agents that we have a bit more money to utilise.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2023, 07:06:57 PM
I agree 99%.

The 1% I am reserving is on the basis that Lai has / is paying the money back and the club do not want to announce that until the transfer window has closed to avoid tipping the other clubs and agents that we have a bit more money to utilise.

Ron already stated we have the 20m in the bank though so any club worth it's weight will be aware of that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2023, 07:09:17 PM
Ron already stated we have the 20m in the bank though so any club worth it's weight will be aware of that.

Yes, but at least the club have the excuse that is for day to day operating costs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2023, 07:10:18 PM
Yes, but at least the club have the excuse that is for day to day operating costs.

What a state we have become under Lai if that's how we work now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on January 31, 2023, 01:21:23 PM
This £20m for running costs - When would it run out? End of this season, or would it cover wages for next season too? If it only covers until the end of this season, where are we next season, with no parachute payments, and a £20m loan to be paid? Is it Fire sale time?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on January 31, 2023, 04:24:07 PM
This £20m for running costs - When would it run out? End of this season, or would it cover wages for next season too? If it only covers until the end of this season, where are we next season, with no parachute payments, and a £20m loan to be paid? Is it Fire sale time?

I suspect it basically replaces the parachute payment money if we don't get promoted next year. No reason why we should have a large hole in our accounts at this stage given our meagre spending and wage cutting over the last several seasons. The wage bill is due to be slashed in the summer anyway when a few high earners are out of contract.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tlms-p23 on January 31, 2023, 05:25:58 PM
Serious question - are the club able to confiscate banners at games, if they are made? Are there any nebulous health and safety grounds that prevent fans from being able to bring out the bedsheets?

Direct messages need to be written/printed and the protests (responsibly) escalated. Have advocated for a long time, the public shaming and embarrassing of Lai. Pleasantries will get us nowhere.

Messages in dual language - English and Chinese and tipping off the local and national media ahead of unfurling them so they can get good shots.

The wittier, more cutting and acerbic the better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on January 31, 2023, 05:27:09 PM
Serious question - are the club able to confiscate banners at games, if they are made? Are there any nebulous health and safety grounds that prevent fans from being able to bring out the bedsheets?

Direct messages need to be written/printed and the protests (responsibly) escalated. Have advocated for a long time, the public shaming and embarrassing of Lai. Pleasantries will get us nowhere.

Messages in dual language - English and Chinese and tipping off the local and national media ahead of unfurling them so they can get good shots.

The wittier, more cutting and acerbic the better.

I just think they refuse to let them in as standard?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on January 31, 2023, 05:36:16 PM
Serious question - are the club able to confiscate banners at games, if they are made? Are there any nebulous health and safety grounds that prevent fans from being able to bring out the bedsheets?

Direct messages need to be written/printed and the protests (responsibly) escalated. Have advocated for a long time, the public shaming and embarrassing of Lai. Pleasantries will get us nowhere.

Messages in dual language - English and Chinese and tipping off the local and national media ahead of unfurling them so they can get good shots.

The wittier, more cutting and acerbic the better.
id imagine anything with Chinese will be confiscated solely because stewards won’t know what it says. For banners in general, under the entry to stadium terms, it says the below won’t be allowed:-

”8.2 any flags or banners larger than those maximum dimensions permitted by the Club from time to time (or, in the absence of such stipulations, 2 metres x 1 metre) and/or of an offensive nature”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 01, 2023, 08:22:57 PM
Quote from: Hunnington Baggie link=topic=15777.msg891599#msg891599
[b
”8.2 any flags or banners larger than those maximum dimensions permitted by the Club from time to time (or, in the absence of such stipulations, 2 metres x 1 metre) and/or of an offensive nature”[/b]

So put one letter per 2 metre x 1 metre banner and spell it out loud and proud!  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darby009 on February 01, 2023, 10:23:26 PM
So put one letter per 2 metre x 1 metre banner and spell it out loud and proud!  ;D

what about one large letter printed on a white T-shirt and then everyone stands together to spell it out to him & the TV, cant confiscate your clothes and wouldn't check on the turnstile.  would take some organising but its possible
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on February 16, 2023, 06:52:26 PM
Bet he would struggle to pay the interest on the loan. Nevermind the loan itself.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 16, 2023, 07:08:23 PM
Wheres this 5 mate. You did say early in the new year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 16, 2023, 10:26:09 PM
A totally "nowhere man"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on February 17, 2023, 10:49:59 AM
We won't be seeing any money. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't take even more out of the club to prop up his business interests in China. This club is going nowhere whilst he remains in charge.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 17, 2023, 11:06:01 AM
We won't be seeing any money. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't take even more out of the club to prop up his business interests in China. This club is going nowhere whilst he remains in charge.

Big Ron has already gone on record to say no more money will be leaving the club. OK so he had every faith the other money due in loans would have been returned by now, but other than that there's nothing to worry about. At all........ taps watch etc.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on February 17, 2023, 02:30:39 PM
Big Ron has already gone on record to say no more money will be leaving the club. OK so he had every faith the other money due in loans would have been returned by now, but other than that there's nothing to worry about. At all........ taps watch etc.

As major shareholder surely he can do as he pleases??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gerry m on February 17, 2023, 06:34:39 PM
As major shareholder surely he can do as he pleases??

And he is!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on February 17, 2023, 08:21:56 PM
And he is!
He must be a viler.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 18, 2023, 07:39:05 PM
As major shareholder surely he can do as he pleases??

Nope.  Only if he owned 100%.  And the eyes of many are watching very closely
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on February 20, 2023, 01:49:25 PM
Nope.  Only if he owned 100%.  And the eyes of many are watching very closely

He can do what he wants as the minority shareholders can ask for a EGM but any motion would not get voted on as his majority shares would get want he want.

Mr Peace did things like moving the AGM to London so he didn't have to listen to the minority shareholders and there is nothing the minority shareholders can do. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Philly88 on February 20, 2023, 03:52:00 PM
As major shareholder surely he can do as he pleases??

He can, realistically but I get the idea that Ron would block him. He has every power to sack Ron though and put a 'yes man' in. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 20, 2023, 07:49:44 PM
He can do what he wants as the minority shareholders can ask for a EGM but any motion would not get voted on as his majority shares would get want he want.

Mr Peace did things like moving the AGM to London so he didn't have to listen to the minority shareholders and there is nothing the minority shareholders can do.

He can do it - but not without potential consequences for the directors - who are personally exposed for any breach of fiduciary duty
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 20, 2023, 07:51:39 PM
He can do it - but not without potential consequences for the directors - who are personally exposed for any breach of fiduciary duty

And note to the point it would be a breach of the MSD loan security and as an event of default they could enforce their security immediately.  It won’t happen.  In fact it’s a lot safer position than it was before MSD’s security was put in place.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on February 20, 2023, 09:13:34 PM
Better already after the changes. Please don’t start that formation with those players in those positions again
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 21, 2023, 12:30:14 PM
Better already after the changes. Please don’t start that formation with those players in those positions again

Oh, so Lai was responsible for that first half last night then?

It's slowly beginning to make more sense to me now  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 25, 2023, 11:17:27 AM
Do we know if any sort of 'forensic' review of the clubs accounts has been done and specifically into Lai's financial dealings from the start of his tenure at our club?
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he is a serial offender and has been salting away the clubs cash from much earlier than we are finding out about at the moment.
I'm particularly suspicious about the period we were a premiership club and more 'awash' with cash?
COYB 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 25, 2023, 11:37:38 AM
Do we know if any sort of 'forensic' review of the clubs accounts has been done and specifically into Lai's financial dealings from the start of his tenure at our club?
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he is a serial offender and has been salting away the clubs cash from much earlier than we are finding out about at the moment.
I'm particularly suspicious about the period we were a premiership club and more 'awash' with cash?
COYB

I think HMRC would be all over anything suspicious in the accounts.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 25, 2023, 06:47:30 PM
Do we know if any sort of 'forensic' review of the clubs accounts has been done and specifically into Lai's financial dealings from the start of his tenure at our club?
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he is a serial offender and has been salting away the clubs cash from much earlier than we are finding out about at the moment.
I'm particularly suspicious about the period we were a premiership club and more 'awash' with cash?
COYB

Yes - the annual audited financial statements
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 25, 2023, 06:50:44 PM
I think HMRC would be all over anything suspicious in the accounts.
I'm not suggesting anything illegal more devious or near the knuckle, as I said I somehow doubt this is his first offence (against the spirit of the rules)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on February 25, 2023, 07:05:45 PM
I think HMRC would be all over anything suspicious in the accounts.

No they wouldn't.

All they care about is getting what they are owed.

They don't go through every set of accounts to see if the owner has been taking money out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on February 26, 2023, 09:49:36 AM
Do we know if any sort of 'forensic' review of the clubs accounts has been done and specifically into Lai's financial dealings from the start of his tenure at our club?
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he is a serial offender and has been salting away the clubs cash from much earlier than we are finding out about at the moment.
I'm particularly suspicious about the period we were a premiership club and more 'awash' with cash?
COYB
I think the hegazi and pereira sales were suspicious
I’d love to see a trail of the transfer fees paid to us, I mean even Dowling was rumpured to be involved in a dodgy deal with not all the pereira fee coming to us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 26, 2023, 12:32:24 PM
I think the hegazi and pereira sales were suspicious
I’d love to see a trail of the transfer fees paid to us, I mean even Dowling was rumpured to be involved in a dodgy deal with not all the pereira fee coming to us
This is the sort of thing I was trying to get at! Will the accounts show if both those fees have been paid up? Have they been paid up?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 26, 2023, 02:06:43 PM
This is the sort of thing I was trying to get at! Will the accounts show if both those fees have been paid up? Have they been paid up?

As I said yesterday, they won't show on the accounts.

It's similar to the "cash in hand" trade deals, where only part of the transaction is shown on the accounts to avoid paying tax.
 
On the other hand, you can bet your life that GL borrowing £7 million from WBA to support a vague company in China, will be a red flag to HMRC.
Also the allegations made by the Times, as refered to above, won't have gone unnoticed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 26, 2023, 06:18:02 PM
No they wouldn't.

All they care about is getting what they are owed.

They don't go through every set of accounts to see if the owner has been taking money out.

Correct.  It’s the auditor’s job and they’d be all over it like a rash.  They have a duty to disclose anything untoward.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 26, 2023, 06:25:37 PM
As I said yesterday, they won't show on the accounts.

It's similar to the "cash in hand" trade deals, where only part of the transaction is shown on the accounts to avoid paying tax.
 
On the other hand, you can bet your life that GL borrowing £7 million from WBA to support a vague company in China, will be a red flag to HMRC.
Also the allegations made by the Times, as refered to above, won't have gone unnoticed.

Sort of…

The contracts for all international transfers must be filed with FIFA.  That paperwork will be available to the auditors, who then check whether what is due has actually been received by the selling club and, if not, disclose the shortfall in the accounts.   However, if the paperwork itself didn’t show the full figure (ie the transfer fee is understated and part of the money goes directly to the owner) then that is possible - although if it ever came to light the owner would be charged with fraud.

The money going out of the club won’t itself directly be of interest to HMRC as no tax liability would have been evaded or avoided.  However, it may indirectly cause HMRC to investigate what else may have been done in an underhand manner.

We have to trust the auditors. They have too much to lose by turning a blind eye.  The current auditors will be all over the current situation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on February 26, 2023, 06:42:22 PM
Sort of…

...

We have to trust the auditors. They have too much to lose by turning a blind eye.  The current auditors will be all over the current situation.

Just like the auditors of Carillion? 
https://www.cityam.com/high-profile-scandals-saw-uks-audit-watchdog-hand-out-record-46-5m-in-fines-last-year/
 
They big boy auditors keep getting contracts despite their track records.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 26, 2023, 08:04:21 PM
Just like the auditors of Carillion? 
https://www.cityam.com/high-profile-scandals-saw-uks-audit-watchdog-hand-out-record-46-5m-in-fines-last-year/
 
They big boy auditors keep getting contracts despite their track records.

Fortunately they aren’t all like that, especially the new auditors
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 01, 2023, 03:54:33 PM
As football clubs are starting to release the books for last season now and in the near future it will be interesting to see what ours show.

Did Lai dip into the bank of WbaFC or has he had his fill.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on March 01, 2023, 08:16:47 PM
Nope.  Only if he owned 100%.  And the eyes of many are watching very closely
So who did he need permission from to loan the 5 million?
Did peace also ask permission for his 5?
And there is another 2 million I believe?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on March 01, 2023, 08:34:56 PM
I think Lai does'nt have to get agreement from anyone else, however I believe he has to inform the other shareholders as he did on the MSD loan. I don't know why this did not happen when he took a lan from the company.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: stoxman on March 01, 2023, 08:39:17 PM
As major shareholder surely he can do as he pleases??

Do any of the smaller shareholders have a copy of the Shareholder Agreement and Articles?  That’s where all of the rules sit.   They will dictate matters for the Board and the Reserved Matters for shareholders and what percentage are needed to approve.  Would make an interesting read…
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 01, 2023, 09:05:29 PM
Do any of the smaller shareholders have a copy of the Shareholder Agreement and Articles?  That’s where all of the rules sit.   They will dictate matters for the Board and the Reserved Matters for shareholders and what percentage are needed to approve.  Would make an interesting read…

I believe the Articles of Association are detailed on Companies House website.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 02, 2023, 12:08:06 AM
So who did he need permission from to loan the 5 million?
Did peace also ask permission for his 5?
And there is another 2 million I believe?

Missing the point.  12% shareholders can’t stop it happening but the board is still accountable for having done it.  That accountability does not go away.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 02, 2023, 12:12:19 AM
I think Lai does'nt have to get agreement from anyone else, however I believe he has to inform the other shareholders as he did on the MSD loan. I don't know why this did not happen when he took a lan from the company.

Not correct.  Shareholders don’t make loans from a company, the board of directors does.  The board of directors are accountable to ALL shareholders and must act in the best interests of the company at all times.  Therein lies the issue.

The MSD loan required 75%+ shareholder consent because it involved giving a charge over Group’s assets.

Lai didn’t take a loan from the company - Wisdom Smart did.  Lai is not a shareholder or director of Wisdom Smart.  Another mystery.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 02, 2023, 12:13:59 AM
I believe the Articles of Association are detailed on Companies House website.

Correct.  There are no Reserved Matters.  Company Law and the Articles govern.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 02, 2023, 07:54:05 AM
Not correct.  Shareholders don’t make loans from a company, the board of directors does.  The board of directors are accountable to ALL shareholders and must act in the best interests of the company at all times.  Therein lies the issue.

The MSD loan required 75%+ shareholder consent because it involved giving a charge over Group’s assets.

Lai didn’t take a loan from the company - Wisdom Smart did.  Lai is not a shareholder or director of Wisdom Smart.  Another mystery.[/u]

I'm increasingly concerned. We really do look to be heading towards a Blues type scenario and investigation. The whole premis of this loan was that it was made to prop up one of Lai's businesses.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on March 02, 2023, 03:54:18 PM
Not correct.  Shareholders don’t make loans from a company, the board of directors does.  The board of directors are accountable to ALL shareholders and must act in the best interests of the company at all times.  Therein lies the issue.

The MSD loan required 75%+ shareholder consent because it involved giving a charge over Group’s assets.

Lai didn’t take a loan from the company - Wisdom Smart did.  Lai is not a shareholder or director of Wisdom Smart.  Another mystery.
So when Peace took a loan from the company he went to the shareholders?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 02, 2023, 11:30:20 PM
I'm increasingly concerned. We really do look to be heading towards a Blues type scenario and investigation. The whole premis of this loan was that it was made to prop up one of Lai's businesses.

No, I don’t think we are.   It is Lai and Wisdom
Smart who have the problem.  It will be fascinating to see what the new auditors make of the Wisdom Smart loan situation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 02, 2023, 11:32:01 PM
So when Peace took a loan from the company he went to the shareholders?

He didn’t need to.  It wasn’t a loan to the company, secured over the company’s assets, but one made by the company.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on March 03, 2023, 04:41:20 AM
So loans from wba to anyone else are up to Lai and the only time we find out is when accounts finally get published. Is this what Simon Jordan was saying the other week.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 03, 2023, 07:01:06 AM
So loans from wba to anyone else are up to Lai and the only time we find out is when accounts finally get published. Is this what Simon Jordan was saying the other week.

Sort of…only the board of directors can make a decision to make a loan from a company.  That’s where responsibility lies.  Shareholders can request, but no more.  Directors make the final decision, no matter how much pressure is applied by the major shareholder.  But when the board of directors (in this case a sole director (of Group) simply does as he’s told by the major shareholder, with total disregard for his fiduciary duty owed by him to the company and ALL of its shareholders, it highlights the need for football clubs to operate with proper governance, as now being proposed by the Government.

The point you make is correct though - the only time that “we” (ie the minority shareholders and the fans) find out what has happened re any such loans is 9 months after the end of the financial year, which can be up to 21 months after any “questionable” loan by the club has been made.  It all comes down to whether the board is acting as a board must do, or whether the board is acting as a puppet of a dominant shareholder.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: colinmax on March 03, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
 As I understand it he would not have had to take the recent money taken if we had got a more realistic transfer fee for Pereira
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 03, 2023, 01:29:18 PM
As I understand it he would not have had to take the recent money taken if we had got a more realistic transfer fee for Pereira

You’ll need to explain that one !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on March 03, 2023, 03:48:02 PM
I think this may be a reference to the alleged January attempt to sell MP on the sly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on March 03, 2023, 04:36:16 PM
Precisely. The board only has Lai, Gourlay, Ken and Mark Miles on it; so it's pie in the sky to expect journalists to get inside information against the interests of the controlling shareholder. The club has very limited disclosure requirements and those are going to get even thinner as the holding company moves over to a trust in Jersey. Let's just hope he manages to pay back his loan in January and this fiasco doesn't blow up to something that distracts away from the progress that is being made on the pitch. We are stuck with the owner for the foreseeable. I think promotion is our best shout of getting rid of him; or at least stabilising the finances, if nothing else.

I'm still not totally clear:

1. Has WBA Holdings been replaced by the Jersey based Holdings entity or do both still exist as layers of administration and presumably management overheads?

2. Can some of these overheads be "repatriated" to Shanghai as management fees?



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 03, 2023, 11:29:24 PM
I'm still not totally clear:

1. Has WBA Holdings been replaced by the Jersey based Holdings entity or do both still exist as layers of administration and presumably management overheads?

2. Can some of these overheads be "repatriated" to Shanghai as management fees?

1.  Holdings owns JerseyCo, and JerseyCo owns 88% of Group. Holdings and JerseyCo are Yunyai’s ownership vehicles. Absolutely nothing to do with us, and no management overheads which affect us.

2. No. No relevance whatsoever.  We are only affected by Group and below
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on March 04, 2023, 12:18:42 AM
Nothing to worry about the loan.

Kevin Campbell is sure it will get paid.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on March 04, 2023, 12:22:05 AM
Nothing to worry about the loan.

Kevin Campbell is sure it will get paid.









I saw that article. I’m so reassured that Kevin Campbell knows the workings of our club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on March 04, 2023, 07:37:50 AM






I saw that article. I’m so reassured that Kevin Campbell knows the workings of our club.
He will have a much better knowledge than most of those that choose to stand and swear outside the Halfords lane.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 04, 2023, 08:34:45 AM
Not defending Lai here, but if you're having a protest about how the club is being run, don't the people who have spent around £37 million transfer fees for players who are not producing also have a case to answer?

Also doesn't the £20 million loan include a component to provide the money we still owe Huddersfield for Grant?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on March 04, 2023, 09:38:09 AM
Agreed.

For those who wet themselves thinking about the loss of parachute payments, worry not; the club  only wastes those fees and wages so lack of parachute payments is not going to make much of a difference.

If we had a decent management structure  (DoF?) that did not include the present Recruitment team of Gourlay and Pearce maybe any cash available might have been better spent.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 04, 2023, 10:03:36 AM
Not defending Lai here, but if you're having a protest about how the club is being run, don't the people who have spent around £37 million transfer fees for players who are not producing also have a case to answer?

Also doesn't the £20 million loan include a component to provide the money we still owe Huddersfield for Grant?


Very true. The Bilic/Dowling squabble must have cost us close to 30m alone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 04, 2023, 10:51:03 AM
Problem Lai has is that he knows sod all about running a football club and has been I’ll advised by so called people in the know. Tried to rectify that by putting his own man Ken in to learn the ropes but that hasn’t worked out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 04, 2023, 10:51:47 AM
Our demise started when Peace sold to this clown.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 04, 2023, 11:00:13 AM
Our demise started when Peace sold to this clown.
true but Ebenezer was only in it for himself, couldn’t give a monkey’s about club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 04, 2023, 11:08:49 AM
Agreed.

For those who wet themselves thinking about the loss of parachute payments, worry not; the club  only wastes those fees and wages so lack of parachute payments is not going to make much of a difference.

If we had a decent management structure  (DoF?) that did not include the present Recruitment team of Gourlay and Pearce maybe any cash available might have been better spent.

Recruitment has been far better over the past 12 months.  We only seek to really screw up in the transfer market when we pay significant transfer fees.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 04, 2023, 12:08:02 PM
Agreed.

For those who wet themselves thinking about the loss of parachute payments, worry not; the club  only wastes those fees and wages so lack of parachute payments is not going to make much of a difference.

If we had a decent management structure  (DoF?) that did not include the present Recruitment team of Gourlay and Pearce maybe any cash available might have been better spent.

I think it's fair to say that the last DoF was responsible for almost all of the £37 million spent on questionable transfer fees.

The recruitment structure is irrelevant, it's the job encumbents which are important.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 27, 2023, 11:04:36 AM
Read an article in Sunday people about those blue noses and their issues with Chinese owners, this could be us in a couple of years time. Numerous owners who have nearly bankrupted club only way out is to go into receivership which means points deduction and possible relegation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on March 30, 2023, 02:36:20 PM
https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire/status/1641424755361234944?s=46&t=HrCvk4z2fduXUe3DzVeeig


The loan he owed us has now been written off in the accounts
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on March 30, 2023, 02:51:59 PM
So those are the accounts for the year ended June 21, approved in June 22.

Meaning they had already written off the loan in the accounts 9 months ago, yet Gourlay still said it would be repaid 3 months ago, am I missing something?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 30, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
Where's Maguire got that info from as not on company house yet. Not saying it's incorrect just curious.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on March 30, 2023, 03:15:33 PM
https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire/status/1641424755361234944?s=46&t=HrCvk4z2fduXUe3DzVeeig


The loan he owed us has now been written off in the accounts
It also says Lai has said the loan and accrued interest will be repaid
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on March 30, 2023, 03:33:31 PM
Where's Maguire got that info from as not on company house yet. Not saying it's incorrect just curious.

Around 3pm the club posted that the 21/22 accounts had been submitted and we made a pre tax profit of £5m.  So they are complete and would suggest a copy has been leaked to KM.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 30, 2023, 03:54:15 PM
Around 3pm the club posted that the 21/22 accounts had been submitted and we made a pre tax profit of £5m.  So they are complete and would suggest a copies been leaked to KM.

I suspect that writing off the loan as a bad debt will help the WBA tax position, especially since we made a profit of £5 million.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 30, 2023, 03:58:55 PM
Around 3pm the club posted that the 21/22 accounts had been submitted and we made a pre tax profit of £5m.  So they are complete and would suggest a copy has been leaked to KM.

Just refreshed on break and see it now. Cheers JC. I was a bit too early before.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 30, 2023, 04:01:26 PM
I suspect that writing off the loan as a bad debt will help the WBA tax position, especially since we made a profit of £5 million.

Could you possibly expand on that if you find time John.

I fully expected us to turn a profit but not sure how bad debt relates to tax.


Edit - Are they putting it at nil value/'writing it off' to offset the profit I guess I'm saying
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 30, 2023, 04:15:45 PM
Could you possibly expand on that if you find time John.

I fully expected us to turn a profit but not sure how bad debt relates to tax.

The bad debt will show as a loss in the p and l account, without it we would have shown a profit of £10 million & thus subject to more tax.

Edit   

According to the E & S, the loan has been guaranteed by WBA Holdings, so will still show as an asset in WBAFC Ltd & WBA Group Ltd accounts, but written down as a doubtful debt in holdings accounts.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 30, 2023, 04:25:01 PM
The bad debt will show as a loss in the p and l account, without it we would have shown a profit of £10 million & thus subject to more tax.

Edit   

According to the E & S, the loan has been guaranteed by WBA Holdings, so will still show as an asset in WBAFC Ltd & WBA Group Ltd accounts, but written down as a doubtful debt in holdings accounts.


Thank you John. Appreciate it. That is what I was trying to get at in a clumsier way!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on March 30, 2023, 04:26:43 PM
What ever happened to the Peace loan that got passed down to Lai? Did that also just get accepted at some point as never being paid back?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 30, 2023, 04:34:27 PM
The bad debt will show as a loss in the p and l account, without it we would have shown a profit of £10 million & thus subject to more tax.

Edit   

According to the E & S, the loan has been guaranteed by WBA Holdings, so will still show as an asset in WBAFC Ltd & WBA Group Ltd accounts, but written down as a doubtful debt in holdings accounts.

I am not from the accounting world John, and I understand you explanation, but I would have thought getting the loan repaid and paying the tax is better for us than just writing £5m off. Our Ron said he was confident that the loan would be paid back 'in some form'. Not sure I like this 'form'.......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 30, 2023, 04:40:37 PM

Thank you John. Appreciate it. That is what I was trying to get at in a clumsier way!

Another factor that could influence the decision to write off the loan, was FFP.

A club is only allowed to make losses of around £36 million over a 3 year period to meet FFP conditions.
Unless/Until we get promotion, there's a good chance we'll make losses over the next 3 seasons, so it makes sense to write the debt off now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 30, 2023, 04:41:47 PM
What ever happened to the Peace loan that got passed down to Lai? Did that also just get accepted at some point as never being paid back?

I think it may be part of legal action involving S4A and business boy. I remember reading that there was a None disclosure order in place, so watch this space........ 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 30, 2023, 04:45:25 PM
Another factor that could influence the decision to write off the loan, was FFP.

A club is only allowed to make losses of around £36 million over a 3 year period to meet FFP conditions.
Unless/Until we get promotion, there's a good chance we'll make losses over the next 3 seasons, so it makes sense to write the debt off now.

As we have announced a £5m profit, whats to stop him pulling this party trick off again?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 30, 2023, 04:48:59 PM
Another factor that could influence the decision to write off the loan, was FFP.

A club is only allowed to make losses of around £36 million over a 3 year period to meet FFP conditions.
Unless/Until we get promotion, there's a good chance we'll make losses over the next 3 seasons, so it makes sense to write the debt off now.

Thanks for expanding on that.

From pictures of documents doing the rounds on WBA Twitter it seems that they will sell whatever needs to be sold player/asset wise to keep the books black but driving the value of club down at same time.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 30, 2023, 04:51:01 PM
I am not from the accounting world John, and I understand you explanation, but I would have thought getting the loan repaid and paying the tax is better for us than just writing £5m off. Our Ron said he was confident that the loan would be paid back 'in some form'. Not sure I like this 'form'.......

Ideally, the club wants the money back, but, in my opinion, it's a damage limitation exercise as I said in my conversation with Gaz.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 30, 2023, 05:01:00 PM
As we have announced a £5m profit, whats to stop him pulling this party trick off again?

There are others on this forum who undestand company governance a lot better than me, but there are question marks about the legality of the loan, both in company law & EFL regulations.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on March 30, 2023, 05:56:49 PM
I’m looking forward to all the mega clever posters coming home so they can explain everything to us in layman terms
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sing on our own on March 30, 2023, 07:07:57 PM
In layman’s terms, He’s gorrra goooo Tum.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 30, 2023, 07:29:22 PM
https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire/status/1641424755361234944?s=46&t=HrCvk4z2fduXUe3DzVeeig


The loan he owed us has now been written off in the accounts

No it hasn’t.  It has been impaired, which simply means that the risk of it not being paid is high (which is obvious after two repayment defaults).  Standard practice for a debt in those circumstances.   The debt remains payable, and repayment of it has now been guaranteed by WBA Holdings Limited, which is a small plus.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 30, 2023, 07:31:28 PM
The bad debt will show as a loss in the p and l account, without it we would have shown a profit of £10 million & thus subject to more tax.

Edit   

According to the E & S, the loan has been guaranteed by WBA Holdings, so will still show as an asset in WBAFC Ltd & WBA Group Ltd accounts, but written down as a doubtful debt in holdings accounts.
m


Why would it be written down as a debt in Holdings accounts?  Maybe they are more confident that it will get repaid?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 30, 2023, 07:32:41 PM
Another factor that could influence the decision to write off the loan, was FFP.

A club is only allowed to make losses of around £36 million over a 3 year period to meet FFP conditions.
Unless/Until we get promotion, there's a good chance we'll make losses over the next 3 seasons, so it makes sense to write the debt off now.

It is not written off.  It still exists. It is merely impaired.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on March 30, 2023, 07:32:55 PM
No it hasn’t.  It has been impaired, which simply means that the risk of it not being paid is high (which is obvious after two repayment defaults).  Standard practice for a debt in those circumstances.   The debt remains payable, and repayment of it has now been guaranteed by WBA Holdings Limited, which is a small plus.

Holdings guaranting it does seem to suggest what has been suspected all along, that ultimately they hope to repay with dividends.  Obviously Dividend are normal in business but extremely rare in football (2 clubs in 20 years have paid dividends I read not so long ago, Man Utd and Swansea)

How we will generate enough to pay the dividends is the question and still amounts to the club paying back its own loan in a roundabout way
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 30, 2023, 07:34:31 PM
Holdings guaranting it does seem to suggest what has been suspected all along, that ultimately they hope to repay with dividends.  Obviously Dividend are normal in business but extremely rare in football (2 clubs in 20 years have paid dividends I read not so long ago, Man Utd and Swansea)

That always remains possible, and there is still more than £30m of distributable reserves on the balance sheet which could, subject to cash flow, be taken as dividends.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on March 30, 2023, 07:52:03 PM
Put to one side discussions about the organisation of the accounts, as that is a distraction. The main point is that our owner has through legal means effectively stolen £5m from the club, which is a disgrace. Obviously, the loan should never have been signed off by the board, but the board itself it totally compromised.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 30, 2023, 08:12:38 PM
Put to one side discussions about the organisation of the accounts, as that is a distraction. The main point is that our owner has through legal means effectively stolen £5m from the club, which is a disgrace. Obviously, the loan should never have been signed off by the board, but the board itself it totally compromised.

Yes that’s correct.  Ken as sole director is in a very weak position for having made that loan. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 30, 2023, 11:36:18 PM
In layman's terms we are basically up the proverbial creek without the proverbial paddle.

The following is a useful article by Matt Slater in the Athletic explaining where we are in terms of finances.

West Bromwich Albion’s directors have effectively written off the £5 million loan the Championship club’s owner Guochuan Lai paid to one of his Chinese companies in June 2021, signalling their belief that it is never coming back.

The loan, paid to Hong Kong-based Wisdom Smart Corporation, has been a source of anger for West Brom fans ever since it was revealed in the club’s accounts.

Lai, who bought a majority stake in the club for £200m in 2016, initially said he needed the loan to help Wisdom Smart get through some temporary difficulties and would repay it in September 2021. But that deadline and then a subsequent one last summer were both missed.

West Brom’s minority shareholders, approximately 430 fans who own 12 per cent of the club, were then assured by Lai’s representatives that the loan would be repaid “early in the new year”, as in the start of 2023.

But that third deadline has now come and gone, with numerous requests for an update from minority shareholders being ignored by Lai, his representatives and Wisdom Smart.

And now the club’s directors have come to the same conclusion as the minority shareholders and wider fanbase: Lai will never repay the loan.

This assessment is made clear in the club’s accounts for the 2021/22 season, which have just been released to shareholders.

“At 30 June 2022 and at the date of the approval of the financial statements, the company has yet to receive payment and so the full amount totalling £5,059,000 has been impaired to a carrying value of £Nil,” the accounts say.

This impairment can then be seen in the section on debtors, where there was a figure of £5m for “other debtors including related party loan” in the 2020/21 accounts that is missing in the most recent set of numbers.

West Brom fans will be incensed by this, as Lai’s representatives at the club appear to have made no attempt to collect the debt, despite Wisdom Smart issuing a special resolution last year that said it had “cancelled” more than £25m of share capital because it was “excess” to its requirements.

West Brom, on the other hand, are badly in need of money.

The accounts cover the Midlands-based club’s first season back in the Championship following their relegation from the Premier League in 2021. They actually made a profit of £171,000 but it would have been a £16.7m loss but for the sale of Matheus Pereira to Saudi side Al-Hilal.

And further sales of that magnitude are the only way the auditors see the club surviving as a going concern. In fact, they even go so far as to say they believe there is a “material uncertainty” about West Brom’s future.

Noting that the club has already taken – and fully drawn down – a £20m loan from the UK arm of American private equity firm MSD, the auditors warn: “Given that such funding or player trading is not guaranteed, these events or conditions indicate that a material uncertainty exists that may cast significant doubt on the group and company’s ability to continue as a going concern.”

The club published a statement on its website on Thursday reiterating Lai’s intention to repay the loan.


Key points.

1. Lai is unlikely to repay the loan which is not newsworthy given that he has missed 3 deadlines already.
2. The auditors comments are frankly scarry. Auditors are a cautious bunch and will bend over backwards not to write controversial notes into accounts. So when they do sit up and take notice.
3. The MDH loan is propping up current expenditure.
4. Just to cover the loan we need to make £20m in player sales.

I would also add that whichever entity "Guarantees" the loan makes not the slightest bit of difference to the likelihood of it being repaid.

What an absolute shambles.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 30, 2023, 11:56:39 PM
In layman's terms we are basically up the proverbial creek without the proverbial paddle.

The following is a useful article by Matt Slater in the Athletic explaining where we are in terms of finances.

West Bromwich Albion’s directors have effectively written off the £5 million loan the Championship club’s owner Guochuan Lai paid to one of his Chinese companies in June 2021, signalling their belief that it is never coming back.

The loan, paid to Hong Kong-based Wisdom Smart Corporation, has been a source of anger for West Brom fans ever since it was revealed in the club’s accounts.

Lai, who bought a majority stake in the club for £200m in 2016, initially said he needed the loan to help Wisdom Smart get through some temporary difficulties and would repay it in September 2021. But that deadline and then a subsequent one last summer were both missed.

West Brom’s minority shareholders, approximately 430 fans who own 12 per cent of the club, were then assured by Lai’s representatives that the loan would be repaid “early in the new year”, as in the start of 2023.

But that third deadline has now come and gone, with numerous requests for an update from minority shareholders being ignored by Lai, his representatives and Wisdom Smart.

And now the club’s directors have come to the same conclusion as the minority shareholders and wider fanbase: Lai will never repay the loan.

This assessment is made clear in the club’s accounts for the 2021/22 season, which have just been released to shareholders.

“At 30 June 2022 and at the date of the approval of the financial statements, the company has yet to receive payment and so the full amount totalling £5,059,000 has been impaired to a carrying value of £Nil,” the accounts say.

This impairment can then be seen in the section on debtors, where there was a figure of £5m for “other debtors including related party loan” in the 2020/21 accounts that is missing in the most recent set of numbers.

West Brom fans will be incensed by this, as Lai’s representatives at the club appear to have made no attempt to collect the debt, despite Wisdom Smart issuing a special resolution last year that said it had “cancelled” more than £25m of share capital because it was “excess” to its requirements.

West Brom, on the other hand, are badly in need of money.

The accounts cover the Midlands-based club’s first season back in the Championship following their relegation from the Premier League in 2021. They actually made a profit of £171,000 but it would have been a £16.7m loss but for the sale of Matheus Pereira to Saudi side Al-Hilal.

And further sales of that magnitude are the only way the auditors see the club surviving as a going concern. In fact, they even go so far as to say they believe there is a “material uncertainty” about West Brom’s future.

Noting that the club has already taken – and fully drawn down – a £20m loan from the UK arm of American private equity firm MSD, the auditors warn: “Given that such funding or player trading is not guaranteed, these events or conditions indicate that a material uncertainty exists that may cast significant doubt on the group and company’s ability to continue as a going concern.”

The club published a statement on its website on Thursday reiterating Lai’s intention to repay the loan.


Key points.

1. Lai is unlikely to repay the loan which is not newsworthy given that he has missed 3 deadlines already.
2. The auditors comments are frankly scarry. Auditors are a cautious bunch and will bend over backwards not to write controversial notes into accounts. So when they do sit up and take notice.
3. The MDH loan is propping up current expenditure.
4. Just to cover the loan we need to make £20m in player sales.

I would also add that whichever entity "Guarantees" the loan makes not the slightest bit of difference to the likelihood of it being repaid.

What an absolute shambles.

That last point isn’t correct.  Holdings has an asset - the 88% shareholding in Group (via the interposed Jersey company).  If and when the club is sold, that’s where 88% of the sale proceeds go, so at the latest that’s when Group would get repaid. 

I think Lai will look to sell as soon as it’s known that we aren’t going to be promoted. There’s no way out for him in that situation without taking a huge loss, but it’s understandable that he’s hanging on in the hope  that we get up via the play-offs.

It’s also good to consider MSD’s position. Their security is watertight.  They could take control without going to administration in the event of a default, and sell the club for what it’s really worth, unrelated to Lai’s desire to recoup his purchase price.  Lai will be aware of that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on March 31, 2023, 12:14:41 AM
This bad debt has been written off in this set of accounts.
Thats good in one way but it remains a debt that someone in our club must continue to chase
Because any monies that can be recovered from the debtor will be shown as pure profit in the set of accounts its retrieved in
Its a very cheap trick for a business owner to default on a loan and in my opinion he is not a fit and proper person to own our club, he sees it as a cash cow, i suspect we will never see him at WBA again he's a weak individualwith a devious mind
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 31, 2023, 12:23:39 AM
This bad debt has been written off in this set of accounts.
Thats good in one way but it remains a debt that someone in our club must continue to chase
Because any monies that can be recovered from the debtor will be shown as pure profit in the set of accounts its retrieved in
Its a very cheap trick for a business owner to default on a loan and in my opinion he is not a fit and proper person to own our club, he sees it as a cash cow, i suspect we will never see him at WBA again he's a weak individualwith a devious mind

It’s not written off, it’s merely impaired (fully provided for as a doubtful debt)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 31, 2023, 01:03:30 AM
Holdings does not own any assets other than a stake in West Bromwich Albion. The guarantor only owns the lender. The debtor owns Holdings. There are no assets anywhere that do not have a charge against them because of the MDH loan. The only way the loan gets paid back is through Lai.

There have been 3 missed deadlines. The auditors pretty much put the gun to the directors heads and told them that the loan had to be 100% written down not partially but 100%.

If or more likely when we default, MDH aren't going to ride in and manage the club while they find a buyer for what it is really worth (not much more than the loan if we are bleeding operating losses of £10m plus in the Championship) they just want their money back. 

I have never been more dismayed at the state of the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 31, 2023, 06:15:22 AM
Holdings does not own any assets other than a stake in West Bromwich Albion. The guarantor only owns the lender. The debtor owns Holdings. There are no assets anywhere that do not have a charge against them because of the MDH loan. The only way the loan gets paid back is through Lai.

There have been 3 missed deadlines. The auditors pretty much put the gun to the directors heads and told them that the loan had to be 100% written down not partially but 100%.

If or more likely when we default, MDH aren't going to ride in and manage the club while they find a buyer for what it is really worth (not much more than the loan if we are bleeding operating losses of £10m plus in the Championship) they just want their money back. 

I have never been more dismayed at the state of the club.

No - the debtor is Wisdom Smart, which does not own Holdings.  Yunyai owns Holdings, and it does not own Wisdom Smart.

No - the loan gets repaid when Holdings sells the club to a third party, which is a far better position than if Group was solely reliant on Wiadom Smart to repay the loan.

The auditors were absolutely right with their approach.

MSD’s involvement is a plus. The terms prevent any further “Lai leakage”, and there can be no doubt that at say £50m there would be buyers right now (although Lai of course wants a lot more).  MSD could, if they wish, take effective control (in the event of a breach of the loan terms) by forcing a sale to a third party without Group going into actual administration, which of course obliterates Yunyai’s investment.  Lai will realise that.  This is how I believe it will play out as soon as promotion - the one chance of Lai getting even 60% of his purchase price back - is no longer possible.  The MSD loan buys Yunyai time to achieve a better exit price, because without it the coub would have run out of cash before enough players could be sold or offloaded from the wage bill.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 31, 2023, 08:07:12 AM
Figures aside I read it that they will have a go a promotion again next year if not this year and then if no joy it's dismantle or sell the club time.

Thanks to everyone for proving info on the business side of things in here. It's interesting stuff.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 31, 2023, 08:38:57 AM
Just to add re the MSD loan.

There is no way that the £20 million loan can be paid back just by the sale of the "real estate" value of the fixed assets. The Hawthorns & Training ground, nominated as collateral

To get their money back, MSD would still need to use it as an entertainment venue.
IMO, WBAFC would still have access to both stadium & training ground, but both would also be availlable for other sports, Rugby  or American football for example.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 31, 2023, 09:04:14 AM
No idea what the answers are but the outcomes for this football club are thoroughly depressing.

Someone start preparing AFC West Brom…
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 09:12:10 AM
No - the debtor is Wisdom Smart, which does not own Holdings.  Yunyai owns Holdings, and it does not own Wisdom Smart.

No - the loan gets repaid when Holdings sells the club to a third party, which is a far better position than if Group was solely reliant on Wiadom Smart to repay the loan.

The auditors were absolutely right with their approach.

MSD’s involvement is a plus. The terms prevent any further “Lai leakage”, and there can be no doubt that at say £50m there would be buyers right now (although Lai of course wants a lot more).  MSD could, if they wish, take effective control (in the event of a breach of the loan terms) by forcing a sale to a third party without Group going into actual administration, which of course obliterates Yunyai’s investment.  Lai will realise that.  This is how I believe it will play out as soon as promotion - the one chance of Lai getting even 60% of his purchase price back - is no longer possible.  The MSD loan buys Yunyai time to achieve a better exit price, because without it the coub would have run out of cash before enough players could be sold or offloaded from the wage bill.

Thank you for this Overseas, an interesting read.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 09:17:07 AM
No idea what the answers are but the outcomes for this football club are thoroughly depressing.

Someone start preparing AFC West Brom…

We will need to find somewhere to play first......... :(

If we do not go up this year then our outlook for next year is very grim indeed. I am wondering what Ron is thinking at the moment because he has made statements that have been totally undermined by our esteemed leader. Personally I would be thoroughly disenchanted with the whole thing and be looking elsewhere for employment. No wonder Jenkins left, I personally believe he saw all of this. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on March 31, 2023, 09:18:58 AM
No idea what the answers are but the outcomes for this football club are thoroughly depressing.

Someone start preparing AFC West Brom…

Yup, I said as much a few months ago.

It's sad because no-one outside the fanbase will care if we go to the wall. Yes we got history but that'll all go should the club fold.

The other issue is there is not a single thing the fans can do and we have to watch the car crash in slow motion.

It's sad because there is emotion tied up in this club, years of family history for a lot of people that can't just simply walk away.

Like I said a few years ago, the club has got cancer and I think the club has just recieved it's terminal diagnosis unfortunately.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on March 31, 2023, 09:24:00 AM
We will need to find somewhere to play first......... :(

We can go back to Dartmouth Park, call our selves West Bromwich Strollers AFC
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 09:39:21 AM
Chris Lepkowski posted a picture of the Wisdom Smart registered offices yesterday on Twitter. It appears to be a multi occupancy proxy office set up, and/or mail drop, not the swanky set up you may imagine.

Very depressing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on March 31, 2023, 09:42:36 AM
This is all just a mess Lai is dragging a proud and historic club through the Mud for personal greed. Never in 9 or 10 years following Football and supporting us did I ever expect to see this. I fear that by the time I have Kida and they are old enough to want to go and watch Football. The Albion may not exist
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on March 31, 2023, 09:43:40 AM
I would like to wholeheartedly thank JP for screwing this club and its fans over. 'I will only sell to someone that can take the club to the next level'. Well he fooled me, we all assumed the next level would be upwards. I fear this is going to get a whole lot worse before we see the light at the end of the tunnel. Fail to get promoted this year and I think its League 2 here we come (Or even worse). I realise that comment is pessimistic, but how do we get out of this hole we are digging, with an owner that cant sell, and a club devoid of money?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 09:52:12 AM
I would like to wholeheartedly thank JP for screwing this club and its fans over. 'I will only sell to someone that can take the club to the next level'. Well he fooled me, we all assumed the next level would be upwards. I fear this is going to get a whole lot worse before we see the light at the end of the tunnel. Fail to get promoted this year and I think its League 2 here we come (Or even worse). I realise that comment is pessimistic, but how do we get out of this hole we are digging, with an owner that cant sell, and a club devoid of money?

If only Thompson and Megson had not fell out, we would probably be in a different place now......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on March 31, 2023, 10:02:57 AM
I dont understand company accounts to that level so apologies if i sound thick!

The firesale that people are mentioning, does it start this summer if we dont go up? I was under the impression that we had the £20m loan and that we were going s**t or bust to go up this year or next (not exactly a sensible business plan either way!)

Also, officially Lai shouldnt take any more out, but can he be stopped? The club consits of his mate doesn it? I imagine whatever Lai says, goes.

But although company house, the law, etc may say people cant do certain things, is anything enforceable whilst he is in china? The fact the company address is some shanty building (as per chris lepkowski photo) along with how Lai has run things strikes me he really is dodgy and his need for money to please his investors is far bigger than the worry of company house and uk authorities (same as Blues)

Regarding the firesale, the worry would be one of our most saleable assets is our head coach, if we do have to start selling off this summer then i imagine he would consider his future and  probably wouldnt be short of premier league admirers and the club would be happy as with the new contract he signed, we get a fee!

I am normally a positive person but as per this post, its getting harder to do about the Albion!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 10:08:22 AM
I dont understand company accounts to that level so apologies if i sound thick!

The firesale that people are mentioning, does it start this summer if we dont go up? I was under the impression that we had the £20m loan and that we were going s**t or bust to go up this year or next (not exactly a sensible business plan either way!)

Also, officially Lai shouldnt take any more out, but can he be stopped? The club consits of his mate doesn it? I imagine whatever Lai says, goes.

But although company house, the law, etc may say people cant do certain things, is anything enforceable whilst he is in china? The fact the company address is some shanty building (as per chris lepkowski photo) along with how Lai has run things strikes me he really is dodgy and his need for money to please his investors is far bigger than the worry of company house and uk authorities (same as Blues)

Regarding the firesale, the worry would be one of our most saleable assets is our head coach, if we do have to start selling off this summer then i imagine he would consider his future and  probably wouldnt be short of premier league admirers and the club would be happy as with the new contract he signed, we get a fee!

I am normally a positive person but as per this post, its getting harder to do about the Albion!

Overseas baggie summed up the situation regarding this in an earlier post 79. Like you I am not an accountant  and struggle to understand how writing £5m off is good for the club, but I am happy to go with the flow on this.

Regarding the fire sale, I magine that CC will be our prize asset sadly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 31, 2023, 10:11:09 AM
I would like to wholeheartedly thank JP for screwing this club and its fans over. 'I will only sell to someone that can take the club to the next level'. Well he fooled me, we all assumed the next level would be upwards. I fear this is going to get a whole lot worse before we see the light at the end of the tunnel. Fail to get promoted this year and I think its League 2 here we come (Or even worse). I realise that comment is pessimistic, but how do we get out of this hole we are digging, with an owner that cant sell, and a club devoid of money?


Lai started in a decent position. He just needed to take an interest at any level and come up with some sort of plan.

While I have no doubt JP was only ever selling to the highest bidder the downfall of the club falls on Lazy Lai's shoulders alone. He deserves to lose every penny he does lose eventually sadly the club doesn't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on March 31, 2023, 10:18:32 AM
I dont understand company accounts to that level so apologies if i sound thick!

The firesale that people are mentioning, does it start this summer if we dont go up? I was under the impression that we had the £20m loan and that we were going s**t or bust to go up this year or next (not exactly a sensible business plan either way!)

Also, officially Lai shouldnt take any more out, but can he be stopped? The club consits of his mate doesn it? I imagine whatever Lai says, goes.

But although company house, the law, etc may say people cant do certain things, is anything enforceable whilst he is in china? The fact the company address is some shanty building (as per chris lepkowski photo) along with how Lai has run things strikes me he really is dodgy and his need for money to please his investors is far bigger than the worry of company house and uk authorities (same as Blues)

Regarding the firesale, the worry would be one of our most saleable assets is our head coach, if we do have to start selling off this summer then i imagine he would consider his future and  probably wouldnt be short of premier league admirers and the club would be happy as with the new contract he signed, we get a fee!

I am normally a positive person but as per this post, its getting harder to do about the Albion!

Without Parachute income something has to happen this summer. IMO  I expect everyone out of contract leaves and everyone is for sale at at a decent price (maybe 75%-80% of what we would really like).  Not sure how many of our players will be attracting interest though.  Not  too many championship sides spending money apart from those relegated.

If I were a vulture I'd be looking at Griffiths and Taylor. If you could get those two cheap you've got big potential upside. Wouldn't surprise me to see a Brentford or Brighton interested in those.

In terms of Lai being in China. It makes it difficult to take criminal action if he does anything illegal but the club will certainly pay if anything like that were to happen. Sanctions, embargo's, points deductions. It could be come a real mess.

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 10:20:51 AM

Lai started in a decent position. He just needed to take an interest at any level and come up with some sort of plan.

While I have no doubt JP was only ever selling to the highest bidder the downfall of the club falls on Lazy Lai's shoulders alone. He deserves to lose every penny he does lose eventually sadly the club doesn't.

We had a bit of a perfect storm hit us really. The 'lifelong baggie fan' took the highest bid without a care for what happened to the club, Williams and Pulis spent money like lottery winners, and in Lai we had someone who had absolutely no idea about football and couldn't run a bath, let alone an established club like WBA.

The concern for me is that I don't think we have hit the bottom at the moment, we have a long way to fall yet......

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jordie1471 on March 31, 2023, 10:21:08 AM

The firesale that people are mentioning, does it start this summer if we dont go up? I was under the impression that we had the £20m loan and that we were going s**t or bust to go up this year or next (not exactly a sensible business plan either way!)


So we made a 17 million loss up to June 2022 excluding player sales

Stands to reason we will make a similar loss up to June 2023 excluding player sales.

I think realistically the loan has been put in place as without a loan the  two options would be;

Find a way to sell 15-20m worth of players this summer and if we don't stop paying wages/go into administration sooner rather than later.

With this loan this eases that pressure in this summer at the very least. However I would assume we will still be looking to find a way to sell 0-20m worth of players, trying to thread a fine line of keeping us afloat but still remaining competitive in this division (for 1 more season anyway)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 31, 2023, 10:23:45 AM
We had a bit of a perfect storm hit us really. The 'lifelong baggie fan' took the highest bid without a care for what happened to the club, Williams and Pulis spent money like lottery winners, and in Lai we had someone who had absolutely no idea about football and couldn't run a bath, let alone an established club like WBA.

The concern for me is that I don't think we have hit the bottom at the moment, we have a long way to fall yet......


The idea that Lai could have done nothing to prevent this from happening though is complete nonsense.

Lai actually doing nothing for 6.5 years that has caused this.

People leave etc that's fine. That's what should happen at clubs. Move things around. Implement new ideas, bring in fresh faces, come up with new strategies.

Lai did nothing at all other than turn his back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 10:29:30 AM

The idea that Lai could have done nothing to prevent this from happening though is complete nonsense.

Lai actually doing nothing for 6.5 years that has caused this.

People leave etc that's fine. That's what should happen at clubs. Move things around. Implement new ideas, bring in fresh faces, come up with new strategies.

Lai did nothing at all other than turn his back.

He clearly doesn't understand football and has absolutely no idea how to run a club, or business for that matter. I agree with you gaz, he has done nothing, but apparently he was the man to take us forward according to business boy......

but hey we got a free drink out of him ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 31, 2023, 10:47:23 AM

The idea that Lai could have done nothing to prevent this from happening though is complete nonsense.

Lai actually doing nothing for 6.5 years that has caused this.

People leave etc that's fine. That's what should happen at clubs. Move things around. Implement new ideas, bring in fresh faces, come up with new strategies.

Lai did nothing at all other than turn his back.

All business people make mistakes, what we needed was some investment, for whatever reason, Lai is either unwilling or unable to provide that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 31, 2023, 11:01:21 AM
He clearly doesn't understand football and has absolutely no idea how to run a club, or business for that matter. I agree with you gaz, he has done nothing, but apparently he was the man to take us forward according to business boy......

but hey we got a free drink out of him ;)

A scarf too as well or did I imagine that?

All business people make mistakes, what we needed was some investment, for whatever reason, Lai is either unwilling or unable to provide that.

No ones perfect John I fully agree but this guy is a walking disaster. He paid no attention to his investment and he's going to lose a fortune at some point. I hope for the sake of our club that it is sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 11:08:30 AM
A scarf too as well or did I imagine that?

No ones perfect John I fully agree but this guy is a walking disaster. He paid no attention to his investment and he's going to lose a fortune at some point. I hope for the sake of our club that it is sooner rather than later.

Away fans only I think, I certainly never got one.....

I don't believe there was ever going to be investment as such, that was made clear from the start with the running of the club, when it was said that nothing will change with the way we would be run.....the fact that China stopped money leaving the country for football was inconvenient but also a very easy excuse to cite regarding the lack of investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 31, 2023, 11:15:03 AM
Away fans only I think, I certainly never got one.....

I don't believe there was ever going to be investment as such, that was made clear from the start with the running of the club, when it was said that nothing will change with the way we would be run.....the fact that China stopped money leaving the country for football was inconvenient but also a very easy excuse to cite regarding the lack of investment.


I think it was Lepkowski who said it best. Lai came in claiming to be similar to Jeremy Peace however while he made no investment unlike.Peace he also made no time for the club which has brought us to this point.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 11:21:55 AM

I think it was Lepkowski who said it best. Lai came in claiming to be similar to Jeremy Peace however while he made no investment unlike.Peace he also made no time for the club which has brought us to this point.

They could not be further apart to be honest, the only thing they have in common is that they have both borrowed money from the club and not paid it back
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 31, 2023, 11:26:32 AM
They could not be further apart to be honest, the only thing they have in common is that they have both borrowed money from the club and not paid it back

Very true
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 31, 2023, 11:44:33 AM
Has anyone checked on Ron? Just wondering to myself what our finger on the pulse CEO makes of all this. Must have come as a bolt out of the blue considering he had every faith the money was going to be in the club's bank account by New Year's Eve just gone. Dare say he'll be communicating his feelings before the day is out. Now where did I leave that fresh oxygen bottle?......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 11:53:30 AM
Has anyone checked on Ron? Just wondering to myself what our finger on the pulse CEO makes of all this. Must have come as a bolt out of the blue considering he had every faith the money was going to be in the club's bank account by New Year's Eve just gone. Dare say he'll be communicating his feelings before the day is out. Now where did I leave that fresh oxygen bottle?......

He is looking like a bit of a muppet at the moment really isn't he. If I was him I would be scouring the 'Situations vacant' ads.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 31, 2023, 12:00:32 PM
I don't think Ron will be too worried. He's here for the salary for as long as he can ride it out I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on March 31, 2023, 12:28:32 PM
If I understand Overseas Baggie correctly, the conditions that an outfit like MSD would have put on the loan means that Lai/Holdings cannot siphon any more money out of the Group without paying them back some or all of the £20M loan - although (via compliant Ken) he might be able to make some on player sales to clubs with friendly international owners?

If  we don't get promoted, which seems most likely, then Lai will sell, or MSD will claim it as a secured asset and look for a buyer.  The Times reported that a lot of US people are interested in buying EFL clubs so this is not an unlikely outcome given that the sale will be at a knockdown price. 

If we do get promoted then Lai might hang on thinking he can turn the club into a Euro Champions League cash cow.  He seems to be that ignorant of football business over here. 

In my view, promotion would just prolong the agony.     
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 31, 2023, 01:05:04 PM
It is difficult to know exactly where things stand at the moment. The accounts just released cover the period up to the end of last season. We made an operating loss but the sale turned that into a profit of £171,000 through the sale of Pereira.

The wage bill has not dropped significantly but the the parachute payments drop by about £7m in the second year. It is difficult to see the operating loss being lower than last year against that there is the sale of Robinson for £1.5m.

The auditors comments are telling. We have already drawn down the MDH loan so that money is currently being used, the auditors cannot see saleable assets which we can sell to cover our current trading losses nor is it likely we will be able to get another commercial loan.

Without an injection of fresh capital we might start to have major cash flow problems as early as this summer. Expect wages to be delayed payments to Inland Revenue delayed, you know the drill.

Gourlay will saying that he is optimistic that we can turn things round as the bailiffs remove his office furniture although given that MDH have a charge on everything he will be spared that particular indignity. 

Promotion this year fixes this but we have to make a better fist of our season in the Premier League or will be back here in a few short years time.

At this point if we drop out of the race for promotion this season the logical thing to do is put the club into administration so the 12 point deduction does not mean relegation. The numbers simply don't add up after the end of this season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 01:11:23 PM
It is difficult to know exactly where things stand at the moment. The accounts just released cover the period up to the end of last season. We made an operating loss but the sale turned that into a profit of £171,000 through the sale of Pereira.

The wage bill has not dropped significantly but the the parachute payments drop by about £7m in the second year. It is difficult to see the operating loss being lower than last year against that there is the sale of Robinson for £1.5m.

The auditors comments are telling. We have already drawn down the MDH loan so that money is currently being used, the auditors cannot see saleable assets which we can sell to cover our current trading losses nor is it likely we will be able to get another commercial loan.

Without an injection of fresh capital we might start to have major cash flow problems as early as this summer. Expect wages to be delayed payments to Inland Revenue delayed, you know the drill.

Gourlay will saying that he is optimistic that we can turn things round as the bailiffs remove his office furniture although given that MDH have a charge on everything he will be spared that particular indignity. 

Promotion this year fixes this but we have to make a better fist of our season in the Premier League or will be back here in a few short years time.

At this point if we drop out of the race for promotion this season the logical thing to do is put the club into administration so the 12 point deduction does not mean relegation. The numbers simply don't add up after the end of this season.

Well thats cheered me up no end......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 31, 2023, 01:45:01 PM
It is difficult to know exactly where things stand at the moment. The accounts just released cover the period up to the end of last season. We made an operating loss but the sale turned that into a profit of £171,000 through the sale of Pereira.

The wage bill has not dropped significantly but the the parachute payments drop by about £7m in the second year. It is difficult to see the operating loss being lower than last year against that there is the sale of Robinson for £1.5m.

The auditors comments are telling. We have already drawn down the MDH loan so that money is currently being used, the auditors cannot see saleable assets which we can sell to cover our current trading losses nor is it likely we will be able to get another commercial loan.

Without an injection of fresh capital we might start to have major cash flow problems as early as this summer. Expect wages to be delayed payments to Inland Revenue delayed, you know the drill.

Gourlay will saying that he is optimistic that we can turn things round as the bailiffs remove his office furniture although given that MDH have a charge on everything he will be spared that particular indignity. 

Promotion this year fixes this but we have to make a better fist of our season in the Premier League or will be back here in a few short years time.

At this point if we drop out of the race for promotion this season the logical thing to do is put the club into administration so the 12 point deduction does not mean relegation. The numbers simply don't add up after the end of this season.

Stan, I haven't seen the accounts yet, they're not yet on the companies house website, but the statement on the club OS says we made a £5.4 million profit?

It also claimed that wages fell from £76.9 million to £42.9 million?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 31, 2023, 01:45:22 PM
The auditors comments are telling. We have already drawn down the MDH loan so that money is currently being used, the auditors cannot see saleable assets which we can sell to cover our current trading losses nor is it likely we will be able to get another commercial loan.

And this point in question made by the auditors is why posters like yourself, Baggies and Dan have been so vehemently opposed to our short term approach to recruitment and why our scouting needed an overhaul.

Because we have lived from day to day we now find ourselves in a position without any sellable assets that could bring much needed revenue into the club.

In our previous seasons in this division we had the likes of Kamara, Koumas, Davies, Morrison, Brunt, Mulumbu, Dorrans, Olsson who could all have been traded for a substantial return.

This time we've had Pereira and Robinson. The likes of O'Shea and Griffiths aren't going to bring in the reddies we need. Wallace and Swift are in the post peak years and with limited money in the Championship are not going to court suitors elsewhere because they would have done so already. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on March 31, 2023, 01:53:47 PM
Thanks for the replies with the information and summaries, its really helpful to people like me who dont know much about these type of things.

It sounds like Lai is hanging on for the gravy train that is the premier league, the worry would be if we got there he would possibly price us out of any buyers by trying to get as much of his money back.

Am i right in thinking administration would then start affecting day to say staff at the club, and other business (such as suppliers) getting their money back?

Unbelievable that 10 years ago we were heldup as the model club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on March 31, 2023, 01:58:13 PM
BBC report up saying club have said that the loan is 'guaranteed to be paid back' regardless of the auditors actions

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65127784
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 31, 2023, 02:39:52 PM
Stan, I haven't seen the accounts yet, they're not yet on the companies house website, but the statement on the club OS says we made a £5.4 million profit?

It also claimed that wages fell from £76.9 million to £42.9 million?

No I haven't seen them either. The figures I quoted were from the Mat Slater article. Accepting the figures on the O/S the operating losses were roughly £12m and that turned into a profit through sale of Pereira.

The fall in wages is largely due to the flex down clauses in the player contracts they don't fall further in year 2 if the club does not get promotion. The first year parachute payments are about £44m which covers the wage bill but we still made an operating loss of £12m.

The 2nd year parachute payments drop to £35m but I can't see any significant reduction in our wage bill. The current loss by any logic has to be significantly greater than that posted for last year.

Against that we have a loan of £20m which we have already started to drawdown. The interest rate is currently 14.9% variable which basically means across 4 years the loan will cost between £26m and £30m depending on how it is structured. To put that into context our total income from next season our will be somewhere around £30 to £35m.

Without a significant Capital injection we are basically dead.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on March 31, 2023, 02:51:46 PM
Has Ron the come out of bunker to make a statement? And what is Lia’s end game? As I can’t see him recovering a fraction of investment. Read article that valued club at 70 million with all outstanding loans of 32 million. Author believed loans were an inhibitory factor for any takeover in short term but said club would have plenty of suitors if it went into administration.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on March 31, 2023, 02:57:07 PM
BBC report up saying club have said that the loan is 'guaranteed to be paid back' regardless of the auditors actions

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65127784


Having missed 3 concrete deadlines for repayment I would be a little disinclined to consider Mr Lai's guarantee to be of much worth. Lai's loan is almost a sideshow given that even were it to be repaid it wouldn't cover the interest payments on the £20m owed to MDH
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tommcneill on March 31, 2023, 03:06:52 PM

Having missed 3 concrete deadlines for repayment I would be a little disinclined to consider Mr Lai's guarantee to be of much worth. Lai's loan is almost a sideshow given that even were it to be repaid it wouldn't cover the interest payments on the £20m owed to MDH

I agree, he isn't paying it back at all.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on March 31, 2023, 03:19:03 PM
No I haven't seen them either. The figures I quoted were from the Mat Slater article. Accepting the figures on the O/S the operating losses were roughly £12m and that turned into a profit through sale of Pereira.

The fall in wages is largely due to the flex down clauses in the player contracts they don't fall further in year 2 if the club does not get promotion. The first year parachute payments are about £44m which covers the wage bill but we still made an operating loss of £12m.

The 2nd year parachute payments drop to £35m but I can't see any significant reduction in our wage bill. The current loss by any logic has to be significantly greater than that posted for last year.

Against that we have a loan of £20m which we have already started to drawdown. The interest rate is currently 14.9% variable which basically means across 4 years the loan will cost between £26m and £30m depending on how it is structured. To put that into context our total income from next season our will be somewhere around £30 to £35m.

Without a significant Capital injection we are basically dead.

Yes, I saw that, but I believe he was mistakenly refering to the 20/21 accounts when we did make a profit of around £100k.
 
There is no doubt, we are in serious trouble, our income, without parachute payments, will be between £25 million & £30 million, so for us to be self sufficient, our wages bill will need to be halved again.

On the other hand, I do believe we could generate a decent sum of money by selling player registrations. It seems to me that CC is sitting on a brief to add value to some of our academy players to generate income.

I think I've said for some time now, that I share the view that we are in desperate need of a cash injection. If GL can't find £5 million to repay a debt, then there's zero chance it will be coming from him.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see MSD sell the £20 million loan to a third party in exchange for a share in the business.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on March 31, 2023, 03:41:04 PM
Yes, I saw that, but I believe he was mistakenly refering to the 20/21 accounts when we did make a profit of around £100k.
 
There is no doubt, we are in serious trouble, our income, without parachute payments, will be between £25 million & £30 million, so for us to be self sufficient, our wages bill will need to be halved again.

On the other hand, I do believe we could generate a decent sum of money by selling player registrations. It seems to me that CC is sitting on a brief to add value to some of our academy players to generate income.

I think I've said for some time now, that I share the view that we are in desperate need of a cash injection. If GL can't find £5 million to repay a debt, then there's zero chance it will be coming from him.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see MSD sell the £20 million loan to a third party in exchange for a share in the business.

I don’t think MSD are able to do that, until or unless there’s an Event of Default under the Liam agreement.  Actually the best outcome would be an Event of Default but of a type that doesn’t force us into Administration!

I agree that selling some players is inevitable, both to directly raise cash and to reduce the ongoing wage bill.  This is where we will have to get very smart in the market and also maximise the Academy.  Another 2 or 3 BTAs would be wonderful.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 31, 2023, 03:44:40 PM
BBC report up saying club have said that the loan is 'guaranteed to be paid back' regardless of the auditors actions

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65127784

Its been said that many times before it is now no longer believable.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on March 31, 2023, 03:49:23 PM
I think that when he gave woollen scarves to all supporters when he took over he was attempting to pull the wool over our eyes. He succeeded🤬
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on March 31, 2023, 04:52:01 PM
I think that when he gave woollen scarves to all supporters when he took over he was attempting to pull the wool over our eyes. He succeeded🤬

He did give a scarf away then? I'm not sure if I am imagining it or not
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 05:07:58 PM
He did give a scarf away then? I'm not sure if I am imagining it or not

Away game at Crystal Palace I think…. Bloke next to me got one. Proudly showed it to me at the next home game and promptly left it behind😂
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on March 31, 2023, 05:17:16 PM
Those scarves weren't long enough to keep an Action Man's neck warm. Wouldn't mind seeing if the 'free' scarf I've still got somewhere was long enough to keep Mr. Lai's neck warm should he venture over to the Albion again at some as yet un appointed date in the future. We'll probably see the money before we see him again. So that might be a while......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on April 06, 2023, 01:43:27 PM
Do we know if any sort of 'forensic' review of the clubs accounts has been done and specifically into Lai's financial dealings from the start of his tenure at our club?
I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he is a serial offender and has been salting away the clubs cash from much earlier than we are finding out about at the moment.
I'm particularly suspicious about the period we were a premiership club and more 'awash' with cash?
COYB
As I was saying!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 06, 2023, 01:54:17 PM
I remember years ago when we were moaning about JP and hoping for a replacement and a few of us said 'be careful what you wish for'.

Never thought for one minute it would get this bad.

What a car crash.


EDIT: out of interest just went back to the first page of this thread. Some of it is chillingly prophetic.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 06, 2023, 02:22:20 PM
I remember years ago when we were moaning about JP and hoping for a replacement and a few of us said 'be careful what you wish for'.

Never thought for one minute it would get this bad.

What a car crash.


EDIT: out of interest just went back to the first page of this thread. Some of it is chillingly prophetic.

I was never concerned he was never going to put a penny in. We worked fine without investment but I had no idea how little he gave a toss about the club until he extended Pulis deal and then it was red flag city.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on April 09, 2023, 10:47:11 AM
I’m hoping someone with more financial knowledge might help here, what are the options for Lai to minimise his losses regardless of team performances?
We all know the squad needs a makeover with younger fitter more athletic players to suit CC requirements and while we might have some wiggle room with a few players out of contract our income is drastically reduced I can see a few short term decisions made in a gamble to get promotion next season
So with reduced income can he take out more loans that we may struggle to service?
Surely he his being advised if the squad quality takes a hit because of reduced income and we were relegated we would struggle to service the loans in place already so administration?
What could he hope to recoup then?
How much has he currently taken from the club/owes in current loans ?
Has a championship club in our current state what are we worth?
Surely he his looking for the best get out plan now to minimise losses
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 09, 2023, 01:22:22 PM
I’m hoping someone with more financial knowledge might help here, what are the options for Lai to minimise his losses regardless of team performances?
We all know the squad needs a makeover with younger fitter more athletic players to suit CC requirements and while we might have some wiggle room with a few players out of contract our income is drastically reduced I can see a few short term decisions made in a gamble to get promotion next season
So with reduced income can he take out more loans that we may struggle to service?
Surely he his being advised if the squad quality takes a hit because of reduced income and we were relegated we would struggle to service the loans in place already so administration?
What could he hope to recoup then?
How much has he currently taken from the club/owes in current loans ?
Has a championship club in our current state what are we worth?
Surely he his looking for the best get out plan now to minimise losses

The club cannot borrow any more money without MSD’s consent, and nobody else can borrow personally to inject cash into the club unless it is on a totally unsecured basis.

The terms of the MSD debenture security are very tight.

There is no way for Lai to minimise Yunyai’s losses now. The only way out now is to sell out and crystallise a big loss.  Hopefully that penny has finally dropped - or at least it will as soon as promotion is mathematically impossible.

Value today? Whatever anyone will pay.  Gut feeling is £50-£70m as we still have a strong balance sheet with minimal debt.  But right now a figure at the bottom of that range is most likely.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 09, 2023, 02:57:19 PM
The club cannot borrow any more money without MSD’s consent, and nobody else can borrow personally to inject cash into the club unless it is on a totally unsecured basis.

The terms of the MSD debenture security are very tight.

There is no way for Lai to minimise Yunyai’s losses now. The only way out now is to sell out and crystallise a big loss.  Hopefully that penny has finally dropped - or at least it will as soon as promotion is mathematically impossible.

Value today? Whatever anyone will pay.  Gut feeling is £50-£70m as we still have a strong balance sheet with minimal debt.  But right now a figure at the bottom of that range is most likely.
can not see any investor’s interested in club with all these loans that  Albion are lumbered with.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 09, 2023, 02:59:39 PM
can not see any investor’s interested in club with all these loans that  Albion are lumbered with.

I think at the prices mentioned there will be a lot of interest.

Anyone with half a brain could bring the clubs value back to those figures and half again. Lai's problem is he has no idea.

A football finance bod on Twitter said before the latest accounts came out but still knowing about MSD etc he would estimate our value at 70-80m, probably on the lower end of that but in that range.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 09, 2023, 03:40:37 PM
I think at the prices mentioned there will be a lot of interest.

Anyone with half a brain could bring the clubs value back to those figures and half again. Lai's problem is he has no idea.

A football finance bod on Twitter said before the latest accounts came out but still knowing about MSD etc he would estimate our value at 70-80m, probably on the lower end of that but in that range.

This serves Lai right.
Out of his depth with no real knowledge of finance in Britain and football.He is on a loser. He needs to recoup what he can, and now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 09, 2023, 03:41:58 PM
I think at the prices mentioned there will be a lot of interest.

I really hope you are right, Gazberg. We so desperately need a way out of Laigate....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 09, 2023, 03:45:30 PM
I really hope you are right, Gazberg. We so desperately need a way out of Laigate....


I think the interest will definitely be there mate but will Lai be wise enough to cut his losses?

I remember people on here mentioning they worked in China and we all know about their 'save face' culture but what looks worse? Taking a big loss voluntarily or losing control of the club via MSD.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 09, 2023, 03:48:47 PM

I think the interest will definitely be there mate but will Lai be wise enough to cut his losses?

I remember people on here mentioning they worked in China and we all know about their 'save face' culture but what looks worse? Taking a big loss voluntarily or losing control of the club via MSD.

Trouble is it's impossible to know because he says diddly squat!

Wonder if Peter Jones and Steven Bartlett could cut him a deal?  :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 09, 2023, 03:50:02 PM
Trouble is it's impossible to know because he says diddly squat!

Wonder if Peter Jones and Steven Bartlett could cut him a deal?  :o

 ;D

They would do a better job at owning a football club to be fair.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 09, 2023, 04:01:31 PM
can not see any investor’s interested in club with all these loans that  Albion are lumbered with.

Apart from MSD the other loans are owed TO the club, not BY the club!  On the basis that we’ve hardly touched (if at all) the MSD loan money yet, we have no debt
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 09, 2023, 05:03:30 PM
Apart from MSD the other loans are owed TO the club, not BY the club!  On the basis that we’ve hardly touched (if at all) the MSD loan money yet, we have no debt
well the money owed by Lai and Ebenezer won’t be paid going by report of auditors. As for £20 million loan will struggle to pay that without player transfers which again auditors think are unrealistic. Oh and we have to pay money to some company that owner has a stake in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 09, 2023, 05:10:03 PM
well the money owed by Lai and Ebenezer won’t be paid going by report of auditors. As for £20 million loan will struggle to pay that without player transfers which again auditors think are unrealistic. Oh and we have to pay money to some company that owner has a stake in.

Peace doesn't owe any money. Lai agreed to take it on as part of purchase price.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 09, 2023, 05:10:42 PM
Peace doesn't owe any money. Lai agreed to take it on as part of purchase price.
that still has to play out .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 09, 2023, 05:35:55 PM
The club is not worth a fraction of what Lai paid for it.

Given he overpaid by a factor of at least 50% there was never a route for Lai to make a profit.

Any future investor who buys off Lai cannot afford to make the same mistake. As a Championship club there is a route to profit. Give the club a bit of a makeover get promoted hold onto Premier League status for a season and then sell up.

The fly in the ointment is

a) getting promoted off the base Championship income is difficult so that promotion might take 5 seasons

b) each of those seasons will cost between £10 to £20m

c) the season in the Premier League is going to be tough to maximise the chance of survival it might need another £50m

To keep within these parameters whoever it is needs to get the bulk of the major calls right e.g. Director of Football and Head Coach appointments.

Given the above nobody with any business sense should buy the club for more than £50m.

I wouldn't even try to buy from Lai, just wait for the administration to happen it will save about £20m
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on April 09, 2023, 05:36:36 PM
that still has to play out .

Don’t think it does to be honest. Even if peace did loan money to buy shares, I looked in to it before and it’s not illegal. 

I’d be amazed if there is ever a situation where Lai’s debt becomes peace’s again. I just don’t see a set of circumstance where that happens.

The statute of limitations  for most financial civil claims is 6 years too, so even if a case was discovered now, the courts are unlikely to entertain it. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on April 09, 2023, 05:41:14 PM

Don’t think it does to be honest. Even if peace did loan money to buy shares, I looked in to it before and it’s not illegal. 

I’d be amazed if there is ever a situation where Lai’s debt becomes peace’s again. I just don’t see a set of circumstance where that happens.

The statute of limitations  for most financial civil claims is 6 years too, so even if a case was discovered now, the courts are unlikely to entertain it.
we’ll minority shareholders think there is an issue with Ebenezer’s scheme to buy more shares.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 09, 2023, 05:42:56 PM

Don’t think it does to be honest. Even if peace did loan money to buy shares, I looked in to it before and it’s not illegal. 

I’d be amazed if there is ever a situation where Lai’s debt becomes peace’s again. I just don’t see a set of circumstance where that happens.

The statute of limitations  for most financial civil claims is 6 years too, so even if a case was discovered now, the courts are unlikely to entertain it.

Correct (i've just covered this as part of my debt specialist training)


Lai knowingly agreed to take on Peace's debt. Peace owes us nothing. Lai on the other hand..........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 09, 2023, 05:49:47 PM
Lai was found to a bit fit and proper owner before he purchased the club and was also found to be fit and proper owner ( i know i know  ;D ) in the last 12 months or so by the EFL.

He's not got a leg to stand on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on April 09, 2023, 08:26:21 PM
Surely if we don’t get promotion this season then he will look to sell? What’s the point of letting us fall into admin?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 09, 2023, 09:18:28 PM
well the money owed by Lai and Ebenezer won’t be paid going by report of auditors. As for £20 million loan will struggle to pay that without player transfers which again auditors think are unrealistic. Oh and we have to pay money to some company that owner has a stake in.

That isn’t what the accounts say.  They (correctly) say that there is a “risk” that they won’t be repaid, and in the case of the WS loan the repayment of it is now guaranteed by Holdings, which is worth 88% of whatever the club is worth.

The auditors don’t say that selling players is unrealistic. They say that sales cannot be guaranteed, which is of course is correct.

And no, “we” don’t have to pay money to some company that the owner has a stake in.  That transaction is by Holdings which is absolutely nothing to do with Group, Club, or anyone except Yunyai.

There is widespread misunderstanding of the contents and meaning of the wording in the audited accounts.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 09, 2023, 09:48:52 PM
That isn’t what the accounts say.  They (correctly) say that there is a “risk” that they won’t be repaid, and in the case of the WS loan the repayment of it is now guaranteed by Holdings, which is worth 88% of whatever the club is worth.

The auditors don’t say that selling players is unrealistic. They say that sales cannot be guaranteed, which is of course is correct.

And no, “we” don’t have to pay money to some company that the owner has a stake in.  That transaction is by Holdings which is absolutely nothing to do with Group, Club, or anyone except Yunyai.

There is widespread misunderstanding of the contents and meaning of the wording in the audited accounts.

It's Kieran Maguire that's claiming that Lai has a stake in Warmfront Holdings.

We've already had a conversation on how this impacts West Bromwich Albion FC & Group, but in any event the loan from Warmfront Holdings is secured against a stake in WBA Holdings, so how can there be an indefinite default interest of 5% per month on the loan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on April 09, 2023, 09:49:36 PM
If/when we do get new owners, I just hope they're decent.

There's a lot of dodgy sharks sniffing around financially poor clubs so sometimes you can get passed around from one to another. Hopefully we get someone genuine.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 09, 2023, 09:57:35 PM
If/when we do get new owners, I just hope they're decent.

There's a lot of dodgy sharks sniffing around financially poor clubs so sometimes you can get passed around from one to another. Hopefully we get someone genuine.

The chances of finding another Lai are next to zero however not impossible
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 09, 2023, 10:13:17 PM
The club is not worth a fraction of what Lai paid for it.

Given he overpaid by a factor of at least 50% there was never a route for Lai to make a profit.

Any future investor who buys off Lai cannot afford to make the same mistake. As a Championship club there is a route to profit. Give the club a bit of a makeover get promoted hold onto Premier League status for a season and then sell up.

The fly in the ointment is

a) getting promoted off the base Championship income is difficult so that promotion might take 5 seasons

b) each of those seasons will cost between £10 to £20m

c) the season in the Premier League is going to be tough to maximise the chance of survival it might need another £50m

To keep within these parameters whoever it is needs to get the bulk of the major calls right e.g. Director of Football and Head Coach appointments.

Given the above nobody with any business sense should buy the club for more than £50m.

I wouldn't even try to buy from Lai, just wait for the administration to happen it will save about £20m

Agree 100% other than your final sentence.  Far too dangerous to go down that route.

However I really think that a sale will happen in the next couple of months. Just a hunch.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 09, 2023, 10:18:40 PM
It's Kieran Maguire that's claiming that Lai has a stake in Warmfront Holdings.

We've already had a conversation on how this impacts West Bromwich Albion FC & Group, but in any event the loan from Warmfront Holdings is secured against a stake in WBA Holdings, so how can there be an indefinite default interest of 5% per month on the loan.

I usually agree 100% with Kieran Maguire (I even bought his excellent book) and whilst he may be correct re Warmfront, the transaction involves Holdings only, and secured over a shareholding in Holdings, and so is absolutely irrelevant to Group and everything below Group.

Holdings is 100% owned by Yunyai. It is simply their own holding company. Whatever Holdings does with Warmfront and whatever security is given over shares in Holdings simply doesn’t affect us.  Kieran Maguire has missed that crucial point.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 09, 2023, 10:20:36 PM
The chances of finding another Lai are next to zero however not impossible

I only wish that was true, but the charlatans like Kirschner and Bassini will always be sniffing around and there are plenty like them out there, including the Nigerian bloke trying to buy Blades.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 09, 2023, 11:12:13 PM
I only wish that was true, but the charlatans like Kirschner and Bassini will always be sniffing around and there are plenty like them out there, including the Nigerian bloke trying to buy Blades.

Plenty of dodgy buggers about for sure but hard to find anyone anyone else willing to invest so much and instantly turn their back
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 09, 2023, 11:25:55 PM
Plenty of dodgy buggers about for sure but hard to find anyone anyone else willing to invest so much and instantly turn their back

He did always say there would be no money injected and that the club would need to be self-sufficient.   What he didn’t say though was that he would take money out !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on April 09, 2023, 11:47:08 PM

I think the interest will definitely be there mate but will Lai be wise enough to cut his losses?

I remember people on here mentioning they worked in China and we all know about their 'save face' culture but what looks worse? Taking a big loss voluntarily or losing control of the club via MSD.
I have got shot down on here before for saying this,but the "face" thing is a legacy much as an English mans word is his bond, This is based on travelling to china extensively (pre covid) and working with the Chinese throughout Asia, Chinese  businesses fail and folks try again (as anywhere else)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 09, 2023, 11:55:58 PM
He did always say there would be no money injected and that the club would need to be self-sufficient.   What he didn’t say though was that he would take money out !

100%. His initial statement didn't bother me a jot but his actions following that worried me tremendously!

I have got shot down on here before for saying this,but the "face" thing is a legacy much as an English mans word is his bond, This is based on travelling to china extensively (pre covid) and working with the Chinese throughout Asia, Chinese  businesses fail and folks try again (as anywhere else)

Thanks Albionic, i'm not saying it was you, i genunely can't remember the posters name.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 10, 2023, 12:09:33 AM
I have got shot down on here before for saying this,but the "face" thing is a legacy much as an English mans word is his bond, This is based on travelling to china extensively (pre covid) and working with the Chinese throughout Asia, Chinese  businesses fail and folks try again (as anywhere else)

It’s far more important to the older Chinese generation than to the younger generation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on April 10, 2023, 12:18:40 AM
He did always say there would be no money injected and that the club would need to be self-sufficient.   What he didn’t say though was that he would take money out !

Just doesn't make sense to me. The owners (a large number of faceless Chinese business people, fronted by Lai) put £200m down to buy the club, and then let the value crash down to £50-70m by making a series of useless footballing appointments which has left us as a Championship club with no parachute payments and few sellable assets. All the while using every loophole in the book to take out what? less than £10m from the club?

They must have thought relegation wasn't a possibility when buying the club. And now they're panicking trying to recoup anything they can before a sale. It's the only thing I can come up with. But then it doesn't make sense why they didn't sell to the highest bidder after the Bilic promotion, we were always coming straight back down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 10, 2023, 12:52:03 AM
Just doesn't make sense to me. The owners (a large number of faceless Chinese business people, fronted by Lai) put £200m down to buy the club, and then let the value crash down to £50-70m by making a series of useless footballing appointments which has left us as a Championship club with no parachute payments and few sellable assets. All the while using every loophole in the book to take out what? less than £10m from the club?

They must have thought relegation wasn't a possibility when buying the club. And now they're panicking trying to recoup anything they can before a sale. It's the only thing I can come up with. But then it doesn't make sense why they didn't sell to the highest bidder after the Bilic promotion, we were always coming straight back down.

Yes I strongly suspect that the investment was mis-sold to the investors by Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 10, 2023, 01:14:50 AM

If China goes ahead and invades Taiwan shortly, which seems more likely than not, then China will face economic sanctions and that would get very interesting for the ownership of the club.

Mind you, we’d have far more worrying issues than the ownership of the club if it brings WW3 a lot closer.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on April 10, 2023, 02:30:43 AM
Just doesn't make sense to me. The owners (a large number of faceless Chinese business people, fronted by Lai) put £200m down to buy the club, and then let the value crash down to £50-70m by making a series of useless footballing appointments which has left us as a Championship club with no parachute payments and few sellable assets. All the while using every loophole in the book to take out what? less than £10m from the club?

They must have thought relegation wasn't a possibility when buying the club. And now they're panicking trying to recoup anything they can before a sale. It's the only thing I can come up with. But then it doesn't make sense why they didn't sell to the highest bidder after the Bilic promotion, we were always coming straight back down.

There are many layers to this but here are a few thoughts.

1. They paid too much to such an extent that no matter what happened they were never going to recoup their initial investment.

2. Additional funding if it was readily available (it probably never was) was definitely seen as being in the throwing good money after bad category.  Besides which Peace has sold the club on the basis it could pretty run on at break even and maintain Premier League status. Although the personnel and the model that enabled this had been pretty much discarded by the time the club was sold.

3. In China both the political and economic environments turned sour. What the Chinese Government wanted was a successful National team what they got was a bunch of newly enriched champions of Chinese enterprise throwing huge amounts of money at football clubs both home and abroad against the backdrop of a slowing economy. The brakes were very rapidly applied on any future investment and football club ownership is not the political winner many thought it would be quite the contrary.

4. COVID probably killed the prospect of the club being sold when were promoted. Maybe this was a misjudgement on the part of the owners but buyers for a football club were pretty thin on the ground at the height of the pandemic.

It could have been different but it always returns to point 1 they paid way too much. 

We are the unloved child of a short romance between the Chinese mega rich, Chinese soft power and an opportunistic football club owner. Nobody knows what to do with us, least of all the current guardians. 

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 10, 2023, 07:34:02 AM
Yes I strongly suspect that the investment was mis-sold to the investors by Lai

I strongly suggest this happened because the investment was mis-sold to Lai by ‘business boy’

We are the victim of two greedy owners sadly
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 10, 2023, 09:15:04 AM
We are the unloved child of a short romance between the Chinese mega rich, Chinese soft power and an opportunistic football club owner. Nobody knows what to do with us, least of all the current guardians.

Great post, Stan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 12, 2023, 11:19:28 AM
Blues have entered into exclusive negotiations with a potential purchaser.

Wish someone would do the same here
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 12, 2023, 11:44:52 AM
Blues have entered into exclusive negotiations with a potential purchaser.

Wish someone would do the same here

Not sure that's correct.
I believe they're looking to sell a 21% stake to one interested body & a second has made a bid for the stadium.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 12, 2023, 11:54:52 AM
Not sure that's correct.
I believe they're looking to sell a 21% stake to one interested body & a second has made a bid for the stadium.


Apologies, you are right. The two new offers amount to a 45 percent stake so the current owners will still be majority shareholders
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 12, 2023, 11:58:30 AM
Not sure that's correct.
I believe they're looking to sell a 21% stake to one interested body & a second has made a bid for the stadium.

I thought that they had already sold the stadium for £20m, and were renting it back to the club at £1.25m a year?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56601076

It may be that the owners still have the 25% share and looking to sell that, or it could be that the new bid for the stadium has come from Asda..... 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 12, 2023, 12:02:36 PM

Apologies, you are the right. The two new offers amount to a 45 percent stake so the current owners will still be majority shareholders

On the other hand, a 45% stake in WBAFC would be useful.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 12, 2023, 12:04:29 PM
I thought that they had already sold the stadium for £20m, and were renting it back to the club at £1.25m a year?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56601076

It may be that the owners still have the 25% share and looking to sell that, or it could be that the new bid for the stadium has come from Asda.....

Here's a link to the statement

https://www.bcfc.com/news/all/club-statement-ownership (https://www.bcfc.com/news/all/club-statement-ownership)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 12, 2023, 12:19:13 PM
Here's a link to the statement

https://www.bcfc.com/news/all/club-statement-ownership (https://www.bcfc.com/news/all/club-statement-ownership)

So it looks as though they are ditching their 25% stake in the ground. So any new owners will be looking for even more 'rent' from the bluenoses. Someone is desperate for money......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on April 12, 2023, 12:39:54 PM
So it looks as though they are ditching their 25% stake in the ground. So any new owners will be looking for even more 'rent' from the bluenoses. Someone is desperate for money......

If you use twitter, it's worth following Simon Chadwick, he seems to have his finger on the pulse of Chinese politics relative to sport.
He's also pretty clued up about Arab influences.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on April 13, 2023, 01:11:05 PM
Lai and his motives will be driven now by his ability to save face and be able to blame someone else for his total incompetence.
My guess is he will just sit back and watch it all collapse and then blame UK/EFL regulations for the failure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 13, 2023, 01:35:10 PM
Lai and his motives will be driven now by his ability to save face and be able to blame someone else for his total incompetence.
My guess is he will just sit back and watch it all collapse and then blame UK/EFL regulations for the failure.

Isn't that the cowards way? Blame someone else.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on April 13, 2023, 06:33:25 PM

Isn't that the cowards way? Blame someone else.

Precisely.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 13, 2023, 07:27:46 PM
Someone on WBA twitter saying they received some mail saying to expect price rises and cost cutting at the club as well.

So it begins....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on April 13, 2023, 08:17:01 PM
I guess whoever was running the club couldn't absorb 10% inflation
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on April 15, 2023, 10:04:21 AM
Someone on WBA twitter saying they received some mail saying to expect price rises and cost cutting at the club as well.

So it begins....

I made my mind up some weeks back that enough is enough and I wont be renewing my season ticket next year, so I'm insulated against that to a degree.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 15, 2023, 10:06:57 AM
I made my mind up some weeks back that enough is enough and I wont be renewing my season ticket next year, so I'm insulated against that to a degree.

Stopped giving Lai my money during Bilic promotion season.

Wont get a season ticket again while he is still here.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: kc56wba on April 15, 2023, 10:19:25 AM
As long as we have a club to support we should do it. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 15, 2023, 11:37:04 AM
As long as we have a club to support we should do it. Just my opinion.

Ownership is temporary, your club is for life.......I will be there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on April 15, 2023, 01:44:33 PM
As long as we have a club to support we should do it. Just my opinion.

100 per cent correct. I give my money to watch the team. Lai does not come into it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on April 15, 2023, 02:04:30 PM
100 per cent correct. I give my money to watch the team. Lai does not come into it

I think you'll probably find that somewhere down the line he does.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on April 15, 2023, 05:35:54 PM
Well, the Albion still (just about) make it into my top 1000 things in my life that are important, so I'll be renewing.

Next season they'll need the ST money more than ever.

Lai is an unwanted guest trying, like others before him, to rinse us for whatever he can, but one day he'll be gone but we'll still be there to help rebuild.

COYB.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on April 16, 2023, 08:21:51 AM
I think you'll probably find that somewhere down the line he does.

Sorry, I meant that he does not come into my thinking when buying tickets. And I assure you that he absolutely does not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 16, 2023, 10:57:30 AM
He is just a "nothing man". No idea and without a clue of how to run and organize a football club business
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 16, 2023, 11:22:34 AM
He is just a "nothing man". No idea and without a clue of how to run and organize a football club business
As opposed to a bloke who shouts down a megaphone whilst standing in Halfords lane?
You’ve never met him so how can you state these facts about him ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 16, 2023, 11:24:07 AM
As opposed to a bloke who shouts down a megaphone whilst standing in Halfords lane?
You’ve never met him so how can you state these facts about him ?

Because we have witnessed him do nothing of use for 7 years?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on April 16, 2023, 06:44:26 PM
Ownership is temporary, your club is for life.......I will be there.
Assuming the owner doesn't drive your club out of existence of course.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 16, 2023, 07:01:13 PM
Because we have witnessed him do nothing of use for 7 years?
He got bilic in ?
He allowed billic to spend over 30m on grant and Diangana
He got Pereria in
He got cornerman in
He got rid of Bruce

Now….I’m sure that many will say that he should take no credit for the above, but if that’s the case then he can’t take the blame either ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 16, 2023, 07:34:31 PM
He got bilic in ?
He allowed billic to spend over 30m on grant and Diangana
He got Pereria in
He got cornerman in
He got rid of Bruce

Now….I’m sure that many will say that he should take no credit for the above, but if that’s the case then he can’t take the blame either ?

I don't particularly look back on the Bilic/Dowling era with any fondess but that is opinions of course.

Sorry Zippy who is corner man?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 16, 2023, 09:38:11 PM
I don't particularly look back on the Bilic/Dowling era with any fondess but that is opinions of course.

Sorry Zippy who is corner man?
Corberan
I blame Lai for the auto correct 😀
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 17, 2023, 10:56:38 AM
Corberan
I blame Lai for the auto correct 😀


Aha, makes sense. I thought Ron was credited with that?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on April 17, 2023, 01:32:24 PM
Lai would not have a clue about any of those deals, just sigedn the cheques.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on April 17, 2023, 01:42:49 PM
Lai would not have a clue about any of those deals, just sigedn the cheques.

The only he signs is the withdrawals !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 18, 2023, 10:14:42 AM
He got bilic in ?
He allowed billic to spend over 30m on grant and Diangana
He got Pereria in
He got cornerman in
He got rid of Bruce

Now….I’m sure that many will say that he should take no credit for the above, but if that’s the case then he can’t take the blame either ?

Reads like a political broadcast for the Laibour Party.

Booooooo.

Keep Polly'sTicks off the board please  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on April 18, 2023, 12:22:21 PM
Do i expect a chinese landscape gardener to be an expert in english football - no,
Did Mr Lai get experience on board - In buckets full
Did the experience let Lai down - massively (Allardyce / Pulis / Pardew / Dowling / Nick Hammond / Giuliano Terraneo...........
He even tried going all chinese

having been let down by his staff, is he trying by all methods (scrupulous and not) to reclaim some of his losses - Yes

Dis-passionately can we blame him? Really ?

He has been massively let down time and again, he has paid fortunes to "experts", sanctioned players who managers wanted, maintained a dignified silence

Do I believe this narrative ? Not fully, but the truth is somewhere in the middle from The Twitter vitriol and the above
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on April 18, 2023, 12:38:57 PM
Do i expect a chinese landscape gardener to be an expert in english football - no,
Did Mr Lai get experience on board - In buckets full
Did the experience let Lai down - massively (Allardyce / Pulis / Pardew / Dowling / Nick Hammond / Giuliano Terraneo...........
He even tried going all chinese

having been let down by his staff, is he trying by all methods (scrupulous and not) to reclaim some of his losses - Yes

Dis-passionately can we blame him? Really ?

He has been massively let down time and again, he has paid fortunes to "experts", sanctioned players who managers wanted, maintained a dignified silence

Do I believe this narrative ? Not fully, but the truth is somewhere in the middle from The Twitter vitriol and the above

You missed Williams off your list of culprits Albionic, the 'safe pair of hands' appointed by business boy for Lai. He and Pulis spent money like lottery winners which didn't help, something that Jenkins commented on when he came back.

Allardyce let him down insofar as he failed to save an already sinking ship.  He had zippo to spend and made very good use of the loan market, but by then the rot had set in big time. Personally I would take him off your target list......
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on April 18, 2023, 12:42:39 PM
Sam Allardyce definitely ain't to blame for our downfall.

He spent about 4m including loan fees and wages which made us more competitive than the 30m spunked up the wall by those titty babies Dowling and Bilic
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on April 18, 2023, 01:13:35 PM
As opposed to a bloke who shouts down a megaphone whilst standing in Halfords lane?
You’ve never met him so how can you state these facts about him ?

I am not sure whether you do this on purpose at times but I will take the bait.

If we're discussing his ownership so far then lets put it in simple in terms.

He bought an established Premier League football club with reserves of £40m in the bank and a club who owned its own assets

Our current position sees us in the division below with a "material uncertainty" with regards to our on-going future whilst having a £26million loan secured against our assets.

And that does not take into account the money that has been taken from this football club to prop up failing businesses in China.

If you want to defend that then go and carry on - but lets not have a pop at those who won't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 18, 2023, 04:01:10 PM
Do i expect a chinese landscape gardener to be an expert in english football - no,
Did Mr Lai get experience on board - In buckets full
Did the experience let Lai down - massively (Allardyce / Pulis / Pardew / Dowling / Nick Hammond / Giuliano Terraneo...........
He even tried going all chinese

having been let down by his staff, is he trying by all methods (scrupulous and not) to reclaim some of his losses - Yes

Dis-passionately can we blame him? Really ?

He has been massively let down time and again, he has paid fortunes to "experts", sanctioned players who managers wanted, maintained a dignified silence

Do I believe this narrative ? Not fully, but the truth is somewhere in the middle from The Twitter vitriol and the above

I appreciate what you're posting as I've posted similar before. However, would you suggest he used due diligence for a number of those appointments? Because I wouldn't. Shiny item syndrome. See a name and go with it without a clue as to the long term implications and associated costs therein.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on April 18, 2023, 04:46:09 PM
Sam Allardyce definitely ain't to blame for our downfall.

He spent about 4m including loan fees and wages which made us more competitive than the 30m spunked up the wall by those titty babies Dowling and Bilic

Yeah, I agree with this. If anything, he gave a small bit of fighting spirit back to us and made us more competitive. Obviously though by then it was too late.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on April 18, 2023, 06:33:33 PM
Yeah, I agree with this. If anything, he gave a small bit of fighting spirit back to us and made us more competitive. Obviously though by then it was too late.

Strongly disagree. Have a look back at results under him, awful. Was delighted when he decided to walk at the end of that season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 18, 2023, 11:33:44 PM
I am not sure whether you do this on purpose at times but I will take the bait.

If we're discussing his ownership so far then lets put it in simple in terms.

He bought an established Premier League football club with reserves of £40m in the bank and a club who owned its own assets

Our current position sees us in the division below with a "material uncertainty" with regards to our on-going future whilst having a £26million loan secured against our assets.

And that does not take into account the money that has been taken from this football club to prop up failing businesses in China.

If you want to defend that then go and carry on - but lets not have a pop at those who won't.
I post my opinion on purpose…nowt else

And there is no where am I having a pop,the FACT is that the poster cannot give an accurate overview of him as a person if he hasn’t met/conversed/engaged with him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on April 19, 2023, 09:03:30 PM
I post my opinion on purpose…nowt else

And there is no where am I having a pop,the FACT is that the poster cannot give an accurate overview of him as a person if he hasn’t met/conversed/engaged with him.

We may as well shut the forum down then.

I don’t need to be a qualified weatherman to know when it’s raining.

I also don’t need to be a businessman to know that Lai has made a pigs ear of running this club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mig on April 20, 2023, 10:20:48 PM
I appreciate what you're posting as I've posted similar before. However, would you suggest he used due diligence for a number of those appointments? Because I wouldn't. Shiny item syndrome. See a name and go with it without a clue as to the long term implications and associated costs therein.

Yep pretty damning that none of Pulis, Pardew, Allardyce or Bruce have managed at the level we hired them at (or higher) since leaving us. Lai going for experience and it not working is not a case of him being let down, it’s simply him making bad decisions.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on April 21, 2023, 06:06:49 PM
The guy is a non entity and a total fraud. End of.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 21, 2023, 06:59:23 PM
The guy is a non entity and a total fraud. End of.

I don't agree. He is out of his depth and floundering.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 23, 2023, 10:33:05 AM
Two actors with Wrexham, have shown more nouse than Guuochuan, who is supposedly a businessman.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on April 23, 2023, 10:38:17 AM
Two actors with Wrexham, have shown more nouse than Guuochuan, who is supposedly a businessman.

Not really.  The two actors paid peanuts to buy a non-league club and have invested a modest sum in moving them forward.  Lai bought a self-sufficient profitable Premier League for a sum probably 30% more than it was actually worse and made it clear that the club would have to continue to be self-sufficient.

Chalk and cheese.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on April 23, 2023, 04:07:24 PM
Give me the chalk anyday.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on April 23, 2023, 11:33:45 PM
Not really.  The two actors paid peanuts to buy a non-league club and have invested a modest sum in moving them forward.  Lai bought a self-sufficient profitable Premier League for a sum probably 30% more than it was actually worse and made it clear that the club would have to continue to be self-sufficient.

Chalk and cheese.
Give it a few years and even a couple of out-of-work actors might be able to buy us for peanuts as well, given the way things are going.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on April 24, 2023, 10:35:24 AM
The guy is a non entity and a total fraud. End of.

Cheer up Rob', Ron' might have Laurence Bassini's number in his rolodex. I hear he's up for owning a(nother) football club. What could possibly go wrong  ;D ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 03, 2023, 06:49:15 PM
S4A demand answers from Xu Ke.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2023/05/03/director-xu-ke-faces-38-big-questions-on-west-brom-ownership-and-finances/

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 03, 2023, 07:40:38 PM
S4A demand answers from Xu Ke.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2023/05/03/director-xu-ke-faces-38-big-questions-on-west-brom-ownership-and-finances/

It's a good read, Gazberg. I can't see any answers forthcoming though, sadly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 03, 2023, 09:17:02 PM
It's a good read, Gazberg. I can't see any answers forthcoming though, sadly.


I feel the same mate too. Bad tiimes for us all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 04, 2023, 10:34:36 AM
It's a good read, Gazberg. I can't see any answers forthcoming though, sadly.

I found it quite a confusing read to be honest. I now have pound signs, question marks and the HMRC logo bouncing around in front of my eyes. From my limited financial knowledge it seems like 'we've' been led to a dance on the edge of an open cess pit in the rain and our guardians are turning a blind one to us struggling for air having slipped into slops and brown stuff. And they really don't seem to give a XXXX about what we or anyone else feels or thinks about it either. W@nchors.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on May 04, 2023, 10:49:10 AM
Wonder what S4A will do when their deadline passes. We will see them superglued to the east stand?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 04, 2023, 11:11:41 AM
It's pretty clear that S4A suspect that WBA Holdings are using WBA Group to pay their legal, service and other costs. Any money owing to the Group is not about to be repaid.  They also question the size of the fee paid for Pereira.

If we ever get promoted don't expect the club to see much of the money because it will go on servicing the debt to MSD Holdings, paying WBA Holdings operational and legal costs. 
WBA Holdings has loaned money to Wisdom Smart which the auditors has written off and WarmFront at 5%pcm or 78% pa; S4A ask who is paying this interest.

My opinion is that , If we went up, Lai would hang onto the club for as long as he thought he could suck money out of the Sky payments.  If we don't go up, I think he would cut his losses and get out for market price. 

What we need is a friendly barrister to take out a civil case in UK courts against P Y Li and Xu Ke (cuddly Ken)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 04, 2023, 01:14:48 PM
I am loathed to criticise S4A in their attempts to hold the ownership to account but they might have been better served by 5 good questions rather than throwing the kitchen sink at it. A lot of the questions will be easily batted back by reference to "Commercial Confidentiality"

1. What is the current trading position?
2. How much of the MDH loan has been drawn down and spent?
3. How is the interest being charged on that loan?
4. What steps have you taken to recover the Wisdom Smart loan?
5. Why is the Holdings loan from Warm Front in default?

The one thing I would have left completely alone was the Pereira transfer. One might suspect an off the books payment between related parties but there is no way of proving it and they really aren't going to admit to it. If the transfer involved anything not on the official documentation (which has been audited) then we are in deep doodoo the with football authorities.

If I was S4A I would be demanding that the auditors who seem to have done a through job on this year's accounts be retained for next year. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 04, 2023, 06:07:37 PM
I am loathed to criticise S4A in their attempts to hold the ownership to account but they might have been better served by 5 good questions rather than throwing the kitchen sink at it. A lot of the questions will be easily batted back by reference to "Commercial Confidentiality"

1. What is the current trading position?
2. How much of the MDH loan has been drawn down and spent?
3. How is the interest being charged on that loan?
4. What steps have you taken to recover the Wisdom Smart loan?
5. Why is the Holdings loan from Warm Front in default?

The one thing I would have left completely alone was the Pereira transfer. One might suspect an off the books payment between related parties but there is no way of proving it and they really aren't going to admit to it. If the transfer involved anything not on the official documentation (which has been audited) then we are in deep doodoo the with football authorities.

If I was S4A I would be demanding that the auditors who seem to have done a through job on this year's accounts be retained for next year.

Agreed. I thought it was naive to ask the club to disclose precise contracts on loans and transfers. Even clubs well run with honourable owners and boardrooms do not provide that level of granular detail; makes the wider request from S4A look like a bit of a fishing expedition.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on May 04, 2023, 06:33:35 PM
The point is they are unlikely to answer any of the questions and the reliability of any they answer must be in question. Picking out things that S4A asked and should not have is moot, as they the owner is not corresponding anyway.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 05, 2023, 07:40:17 AM
The point is they are unlikely to answer any of the questions and the reliability of any they answer must be in question. Picking out things that S4A asked and should not have is moot, as they the owner is not corresponding anyway.

I think that is absolutely the case tex. The structure of the questions cover all aspects of our mismanagement of the club and to me seem to be a pre cursor to possible legal action.

I have nothing but praise for S4A for asking these questions. I am sure that they (the Chinese) will be seeking legal advice on this.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 05, 2023, 10:29:25 AM
I think that is absolutely the case tex. The structure of the questions cover all aspects of our mismanagement of the club and to me seem to be a pre cursor to possible legal action.

I have nothing but praise for S4A for asking these questions. I am sure that they (the Chinese) will be seeking legal advice on this.

And in reference to NJS's post further up the thread....... in the event of them seeking legal advice for this what's the betting WBA Group would be footing the bill?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 05, 2023, 11:32:33 AM
And in reference to NJS's post further up the thread....... in the event of them seeking legal advice for this what's the betting WBA Group would be footing the bill?

Absolutely no doubt about that Dan, although from memory we do employ a barrister on a part time basis. Let’s hope he is a legal eagle and not a coffee maker….
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 05, 2023, 12:35:49 PM
Absolutely no doubt about that Dan, although from memory we do employ a barrister on a part time basis. Let’s hope he is a legal eagle and not a coffee maker….

...... on the other hand he could be a legal eagle and a part time hitman with a penchant for making coffins and doing favours. I'm thinking of someone along the lines of The Equaliser. We can but hope  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 05, 2023, 12:37:45 PM
...... on the other hand he could be a legal eagle and a part time hitman with a penchant for making coffins and doing favours. I'm thinking of someone along the lines of The Equaliser. We can but hope  ;D  ;) .

Knowing our luck he makes a mean double shot skinny latte…
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 05, 2023, 12:47:16 PM
Knowing our luck he makes a mean double shot skinny latte…

...... and talking of our luck even the double shot skinny latte would probably backfire and leave us in a right old mess. Never rains etc  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on May 08, 2023, 11:12:31 AM
Great news for blues, they are moving forward. I guess we’ll be taking their place as the midlands basket case club then with these at the helm
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 08, 2023, 01:13:04 PM
Great news for blues, they are moving forward. I guess we’ll be taking their place as the midlands basket case club then with these at the helm

Suspect we'll see a similar model in the near future, it gives Lai a way of getting some of his money back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on May 09, 2023, 12:44:43 PM
The only positive I can find about us not going up is Lai can't take anymore parachute payments out of our club for his other companies.

The big worry now is where does the MSD money end up ?

If we were to sell any of our assests (like Dara), would the money stay in the club ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on May 09, 2023, 12:47:39 PM
Hopefully they might take a lower sale price now the status of a Premier League club isn't happening next season .
How much more can the afford to lose ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 09, 2023, 12:56:14 PM
The only positive I can find about us not going up is Lai can't take anymore parachute payments out of our club for his other companies.

The big worry now is where does the MSD money end up ?

If we were to sell any of our assests (like Dara), would the money stay in the club ?

Relax.  No money can leave the club under the terms of the MSD loan and debenture.  Any breach of that and MSD can call in the loan which in turn would mean administration.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on May 09, 2023, 01:01:02 PM
Relax.  No money can leave the club under the terms of the MSD loan and debenture.  Any breach of that and MSD can call in the loan which in turn would mean administration.
Could be wrong but cutting off his / their ability to move money about might signal they are ready to sell.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 09, 2023, 01:30:22 PM
Could be wrong but cutting off his / their ability to move money about might signal they are ready to sell.

Who in their right mind would be "ready to buy" the club? Cash-flow negative; in need of large investment, just another mid-table championship club, no obvious business case for anyone looking to buy; difficult to see how even £30m-£40m is good value for the buyer, and I can't see Lai giving it away so I suspect we are stuck with the current ownership until the whole thing goes up in smoke.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 09, 2023, 01:35:07 PM
Who in their right mind would be "ready to buy" the club? Cash-flow negative; in need of large investment, just another mid-table championship club, no obvious business case for anyone looking to buy; difficult to see how even £30m-£40m is good value for the buyer, and I can't see Lai giving it away so I suspect we are stuck with the current ownership until the whole thing goes up in smoke.

An owner with a clue, some level of long term strategy and football acumen (or capable of appointing people with football acumen) would love the club at that price i would imagine.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 09, 2023, 01:41:00 PM
An owner with a clue, some level of long term strategy and football acumen (or capable of appointing people with football acumen) would love the club at that price i would imagine.

I do not see it. Any new owner would be inheriting the club's current debt exceeding £20m and a wage bill 200-300% higher than revenue; in a league in which we are now seriously financially outgunned by 6-10 other sides who have parachute money or owners who subsidise their clubs with shareholder loans they are prepared to write off. No business case at all for buying Albion, what we really need is a Jack Hayward / Dave Whelan / Steve Gibson benefactor. Or a very rich American who has zero interest in making any money from the club and wants a toy to throw money at.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 09, 2023, 01:50:46 PM
I do not see it. Any new owner would be inheriting the club's current debt exceeding £20m and a wage bill 200-300% higher than revenue; in a league in which we are now seriously financially outgunned by 6-10 other sides who have parachute money or owners who subsidise their clubs with shareholder loans they are prepared to write off. No business case at all for buying Albion, what we really need is a Jack Hayward / Dave Whelan / Steve Gibson benefactor. Or a very rich American who has zero interest in making any money from the club and wants a toy to throw money at.

Get into the PL and the club is worth 100m instantly mate. That's the risk for any new prospective new owner of course.

Lai is not capable of bringing success or even mediocrity. He's clueless and careless in equal measure.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 09, 2023, 01:56:27 PM
Relax.  No money can leave the club under the terms of the MSD loan and debenture.  Any breach of that and MSD can call in the loan which in turn would mean administration.

Do you see an investment model similar to that proposed at Birmingham City?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 09, 2023, 02:50:51 PM
I do not see it. Any new owner would be inheriting the club's current debt exceeding £20m and a wage bill 200-300% higher than revenue; in a league in which we are now seriously financially outgunned by 6-10 other sides who have parachute money or owners who subsidise their clubs with shareholder loans they are prepared to write off. No business case at all for buying Albion, what we really need is a Jack Hayward / Dave Whelan / Steve Gibson benefactor. Or a very rich American who has zero interest in making any money from the club and wants a toy to throw money at.

There’s no “debt exceeding £20m”.  The cash from that loan still sits on the balance sheet and there’s no other debt owed by the club, which haa a positive balance sheet.  We are probably the only club in the Championship with no net debt!

The wage bill is already being cut drastically.

There’s never a solid “business case” for buying a Championship club, but there are always buyers out there at a sensible price.  There were genuine American buyers at £100m a few months ago.

We have a bad habit of claiming that nobody will pay anything for any of our players, and that nobody would want to buy the club, both of which are utter nonsense.  At the right price of course. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 09, 2023, 04:05:30 PM
There’s no “debt exceeding £20m”.  The cash from that loan still sits on the balance sheet and there’s no other debt owed by the club, which haa a positive balance sheet.  We are probably the only club in the Championship with no net debt!

The wage bill is already being cut drastically.

There’s never a solid “business case” for buying a Championship club, but there are always buyers out there at a sensible price.  There were genuine American buyers at £100m a few months ago.

We have a bad habit of claiming that nobody will pay anything for any of our players, and that nobody would want to buy the club, both of which are utter nonsense.  At the right price of course.

The loan was taken out to help plug the large deficit we are running. It will be gone before we get to next summer. The accounts made it crystal clear that in spite of that loan we still need to sell players to remain a going concern and the auditors did not share the boards confidence that would be plain sailing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 09, 2023, 05:20:40 PM
The loan was taken out to help plug the large deficit we are running. It will be gone before we get to next summer. The accounts made it crystal clear that in spite of that loan we still need to sell players to remain a going concern and the auditors did not share the boards confidence that would be plain sailing.

It will only be gone by next summer if we don’t sell enough players - quite rightly the auditors covered the aspect that sales can’t be guaranteed (ie Dike then got injured).  Not a question of the “board’s confidence”, more a recognition that sales can’t happen if buyers can’t be found.  One club can’t force other clubs to pay a certain level of transfer fee. That’s standard auditing prudency.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on May 09, 2023, 05:35:43 PM
So am i right in thinking if we sell any players for a fee, (example Dara for £5m) then those funds raised will go straight towards running costs, ie - minimal amounts or none  to spend on players?

I had assumed that was the case anyway and any players we sign will be from the
Wages saved from those who leave the club? I have no issue with that, there are plenty of bargains out there and we have to start using the loan market like those around us and stop giving big paydays to players in their late 20's.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 09, 2023, 06:14:51 PM
So am i right in thinking if we sell any players for a fee, (example Dara for £5m) then those funds raised will go straight towards running costs, ie - minimal amounts or none  to spend on players?

I had assumed that was the case anyway and any players we sign will be from the
Wages saved from those who leave the club? I have no issue with that, there are plenty of bargains out there and we have to start using the loan market like those around us and stop giving big paydays to players in their late 20's.

I think you are right.  In the absence of a new owner I’d be amazed if we spent anything on transfer fees
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on May 09, 2023, 06:44:27 PM
So am i right in thinking if we sell any players for a fee, (example Dara for £5m) then those funds raised will go straight towards running costs, ie - minimal amounts or none  to spend on players?

I had assumed that was the case anyway and any players we sign will be from the
Wages saved from those who leave the club? I have no issue with that, there are plenty of bargains out there and we have to start using the loan market like those around us and stop giving big paydays to players in their late 20's.

Completely agree. Lai has done 75% of his money so will ‘duck and dive’ in hope of promotion over the next couple of seasons. I agree any player sale monies will not be directly reinvested and will only ease the pain of operating costs. I’d imagine (sadly) that the next 2 years will be tax write-off to minimise loss and risk so it’s definitely an awful situation to be in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 09, 2023, 06:47:03 PM
Completely agree. Lai has done 75% of his money so will ‘duck and dive’ in hope of promotion over the next couple of seasons. I agree any player sale monies will not be directly reinvested and will only ease the pain of operating costs. I’d imagine (sadly) that the next 2 years will be tax write-off to minimise loss and risk so it’s definitely an awful situation to be in.

Where does a “tax write-off” come into play?  Only profits get taxed and there aren’t and won’t be any of those!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sconesy on May 09, 2023, 06:59:53 PM
Where does a “tax write-off” come into play?  Only profits get taxed and there aren’t and won’t be any of those!

Doesn’t he have multiple companies to kick the can down the road? There are multiple ways asset decreases can be factored in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on May 09, 2023, 07:12:49 PM
Who in their right mind would be "ready to buy" the club? Cash-flow negative; in need of large investment, just another mid-table championship club, no obvious business case for anyone looking to buy; difficult to see how even £30m-£40m is good value for the buyer, and I can't see Lai giving it away so I suspect we are stuck with the current ownership until the whole thing goes up in smoke.
A club that has lost its way but still has tradition , a decent stadium and good training facilities . Formally worth about 100m now could be bought for half that ...maybe even less. Thats a very good base to work with and I believe thats what will happen this Summer or next , Lai's failed and he isn't getting even 50% of that back . Somebody will be waiting in the wings .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 09, 2023, 07:36:04 PM
Doesn’t he have multiple companies to kick the can down the road? There are multiple ways asset decreases can be factored in.

“He” isn’t the owner.  Yunyai with more than 1,000 investors are.  Tax losses wouldn’t be a factor.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 09, 2023, 07:38:29 PM
A club that has lost its way but still has tradition , a decent stadium and good training facilities . Formally worth about 100m now could be bought for half that ...maybe even less. Thats a very good base to work with and I believe thats what will happen this Summer or next , Lai's failed and he isn't getting even 50% of that back . Somebody will be waiting in the wings .

Correct - if the price can be justified there will be buyers.  The tradition is important - apparently we rank 12th all-time based on performances in the top division (old Division 1 and Premier League)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 09, 2023, 07:40:01 PM
Correct - if the price can be justified there will be buyers.  The tradition is important - apparently we rank 12th all-time based on performances in the top division (old Division 1 and Premier League)

One better, 11th.

Buyers galore IF the price is right as you say.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 09, 2023, 07:50:17 PM
It will only be gone by next summer if we don’t sell enough players - quite rightly the auditors covered the aspect that sales can’t be guaranteed (ie Dike then got injured).  Not a question of the “board’s confidence”, more a recognition that sales can’t happen if buyers can’t be found.  One club can’t force other clubs to pay a certain level of transfer fee. That’s standard auditing prudency.

The maths in the accounts strongly signal otherwise. Our income in 2023/24 is set to be no more than £15m. You can't really run a championship club in the top end of the table on that. Wages last season were down to £42m. I suspect we will look to push the wage bill down again to around £25-30m. We also have to cover the cost of the £20m loan which includes extortionist rate of interest and annual capital repayments; and of course legacy player trading obligations. We need to sell players and raise presumably around £10m just to stand-still for a year and the £20m loan is going to be wiped out come what may. Unless you think PSG are going to come in and bid £30m for O'Shea & Palmer. The maths are very ugly and no getting away from that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 09, 2023, 08:29:57 PM
The maths in the accounts strongly signal otherwise. Our income in 2023/24 is set to be no more than £15m. You can't really run a championship club in the top end of the table on that. Wages last season were down to £42m. I suspect we will look to push the wage bill down again to around £25-30m. We also have to cover the cost of the £20m loan which includes extortionist rate of interest and annual capital repayments; and of course legacy player trading obligations. We need to sell players and raise presumably around £10m just to stand-still for a year and the £20m loan is going to be wiped out come what may. Unless you think PSG are going to come in and bid £30m for O'Shea & Palmer. The maths are very ugly and no getting away from that.

You’re assuming that the loan requires both annual interest and capital repayments. I don’t believe that’s the case.   It won’t require anything like £30m of player sales. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on May 09, 2023, 08:49:59 PM
I do feel a little bit of sympathy for Lai if I'm honest, He paid top dollar for a club and has employed a long list of people costing millions and recruiting players costing millions with absolutely no idea how to stop a juggernaut on a collision coarse to oblivion.
I have absolutely nothing but contempt for Jeremy Peace who sold us to a man knowing this and recommending people of the top of his head, I don't blame him for taking top dollar if I'm honest, but please don't tell me he's a baggie through and through.
I can only hope Lai has milked a substantial amount now to sell the club for  realistic offer and get out please.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 09, 2023, 09:08:46 PM
You’re assuming that the loan requires both annual interest and capital repayments. I don’t believe that’s the case.   It won’t require anything like £30m of player sales.

The interest rate alone exceeds 10%.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 09, 2023, 09:43:58 PM
The interest rate alone exceeds 10%.

I’m well aware of that.  The question is whether the interest and the capital repayments are payable annually.  I think it’s a bullet capital repayment at the end of the 4 years but I’m not sure whether the interest is paid annually or rolled up until the end.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 09, 2023, 11:09:33 PM
I’m well aware of that.  The question is whether the interest and the capital repayments are payable annually.  I think it’s a bullet capital repayment at the end of the 4 years but I’m not sure whether the interest is paid annually or rolled up until the end.

Interest rate is 9.75% plus sterling overnight index average, so 14% currently. Presuming MSD have worked on same basis as their loans to Burnley, Southampton that would be payable annually. So £2.8m a year on interest.  Typically with MSD loans the capital itself can be paid back at any time within the four years, obviously paying it back earlier would reduce the interest liability, which is calculated daily on the amount drawn down.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 10, 2023, 01:52:24 AM
It is not our indebtedness that will kill us. As Overseas has pointed out there is lot of other Championship clubs carrying more debt. However that debt in many cases is owed to the clubs ownership and is not carrying much by the way of interest.

It is cash flow that will kill us. There will come a point where the wages full due and there will  not be the funds available to pay them. How quickly this happens depends on a number of factors most of which are unknown.

a) Our current trading position I think it is dire Overseas sees it as less bad but we wont' know for certain until next March.
b) How successful the club is in reducing the wage bill and raising funds through player sales during the summer.
c) How much of the MDH loan has been drawn down. At the point it is 100% drawn down it is costing about £2.8m in interest annually which does nothing for our cashflow.

A footnote on the MDH loan if we are still a championship club when it falls due particularly if the interest is rolled up it will be close to 100% of the club's income. If the financial crisis has not already happened by then it surely will arrive at that point.   

The sale of Birmingham City is a slight ray of light because it would suggest there are buyers out there, but how realistic Lai is I don't know. I suspect he won't get serious about selling until the financial crunch is almost upon us, at that point buyers might be better waiting to deal with the administrators.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 10, 2023, 08:17:59 AM
It is not our indebtedness that will kill us. As Overseas has pointed out there is lot of other Championship clubs carrying more debt. However that debt in many cases is owed to the clubs ownership and is not carrying much by the way of interest.

It is cash flow that will kill us. There will come a point where the wages full due and there will  not be the funds available to pay them. How quickly this happens depends on a number of factors most of which are unknown.

a) Our current trading position I think it is dire Overseas sees it as less bad but we wont' know for certain until next March.
b) How successful the club is in reducing the wage bill and raising funds through player sales during the summer.
c) How much of the MDH loan has been drawn down. At the point it is 100% drawn down it is costing about £2.8m in interest annually which does nothing for our cashflow.

A footnote on the MDH loan if we are still a championship club when it falls due particularly if the interest is rolled up it will be close to 100% of the club's income. If the financial crisis has not already happened by then it surely will arrive at that point.   

The sale of Birmingham City is a slight ray of light because it would suggest there are buyers out there, but how realistic Lai is I don't know. I suspect he won't get serious about selling until the financial crunch is almost upon us, at that point buyers might be better waiting to deal with the administrators.

As I understand it, the new investors at BCFC are proposing to buy 100% of the stadium & 40% of the football club.
I belive a similar model could be attractive to Lai, with new investors taking on operational contol & Yunyi being towed along.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 10, 2023, 09:15:34 AM
As I understand it, the new investors at BCFC are proposing to buy 100% of the stadium & 40% of the football club.
I belive a similar model could be attractive to Lai, with new investors taking on operational contol & Yunyi being towed along.

Do we really want the Hawthorns owned separately and not by the football club?  I’m not sure that would be very appealing at all.

Bringing in an outside equity partner might be one way for Yunyai to hedge their bets, but based on how Lai has behaved I’m not sure that being a sizeable minority shareholder with Yunyai as partners would appeal to any savvy investor.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 10, 2023, 09:26:07 AM
As I understand it, the new investors at BCFC are proposing to buy 100% of the stadium & 40% of the football club.
I belive a similar model could be attractive to Lai, with new investors taking on operational contol & Yunyi being towed along.

We absolutely need to own our own ground full stop. If we are looking at selling our own house to raise a few quid then we are on a very slippery slope. There are plenty of examples around of clubs and grounds that have ‘parted company’ to the clubs detriment.

I would see any talk of the ground sale as the beginning of the end to be honest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 10, 2023, 09:38:33 AM
As I understand it, the new investors at BCFC are proposing to buy 100% of the stadium & 40% of the football club.
I belive a similar model could be attractive to Lai, with new investors taking on operational contol & Yunyi being towed along.

Actually the plan is to knock down St Andrews and turn it into social housing. The new owners have identified an old go cart race track close by to build a new ground. If I were a bluenose I would not be relishing that

“The buyers will re-claim ownership of St Andrew’s - and part of their plans will be to re-develop the site as social housing. Discussions are underway to build a new stadium on a 40-acre piece of derelict land that was formerly used as a go-karting track at Birmingham Wheels.”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 10, 2023, 09:59:23 AM
Do we really want the Hawthorns owned separately and not by the football club?  I’m not sure that would be very appealing at all.

Bringing in an outside equity partner might be one way for Yunyai to hedge their bets, but based on how Lai has behaved I’m not sure that being a sizeable minority shareholder with Yunyai as partners would appeal to any savvy investor.

It could work if the savvy investor also had eyes on the other 12% lying elsewhere and the owners of the other 12% lying elsewhere were willing to sell. Knowing our luck we'd end up attracting someone as saft as Lai with Lai and co clawing some cash back through a share sell off before we almost inevitably fail to meet our commitments to MSD and the pain of administration.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 10, 2023, 10:17:45 AM
It could work if the savvy investor also had eyes on the other 12% lying elsewhere and the owners of the other 12% lying elsewhere were willing to sell. Knowing our luck we'd end up attracting someone as saft as Lai with Lai and co clawing some cash back through a share sell off before we almost inevitably fail to meet our commitments to MSD and the pain of administration.

I would like to think that money coming in from a savvy investor would be used to repay MSD.  A “savvy” investor would not want to retain debt costing 14% per annum
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 10, 2023, 10:27:18 AM
I would like to think that money coming in from a savvy investor would be used to repay MSD.  A “savvy” investor would not want to retain debt costing 14% per annum

True. Tucked up in bed with extreme nausea, dizzy, coughing phlegm and generally feeling very rough so my thought processing isn't at it's sharpest. Negative Covid test aside the day isn't going too well.

Probably a false negative knowing my luck and I've most likely started a new strain which will wipe out several board members I came into contact with at Swansea. Silver linings  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 10, 2023, 10:47:04 AM
We absolutely need to own our own ground full stop. If we are looking at selling our own house to raise a few quid then we are on a very slippery slope. There are plenty of examples around of clubs and grounds that have ‘parted company’ to the clubs detriment.

I would see any talk of the ground sale as the beginning of the end to be honest.

I believe BCFC don't own their own ground at the moment, the proposal from the new investors brings it back into club ownership.
There was never any suggestion from me that we sell the Hawthorns.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 10, 2023, 11:49:32 AM
True. Tucked up in bed with extreme nausea, dizzy, coughing phlegm and generally feeling very rough so my thought processing isn't at it's sharpest. Negative Covid test aside the day isn't going too well.

Probably a false negative knowing my luck and I've most likely started a new strain which will wipe out several board members I came into contact with at Swansea. Silver linings  ;D  ;) .

Well done.  Taking one for the team.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 10, 2023, 01:36:31 PM
I believe BCFC don't own their own ground at the moment, the proposal from the new investors brings it back into club ownership.
There was never any suggestion from me that we sell the Hawthorns.

I know that John, was not suggesting you did.

It is true that BCFC do not own their own ground, and that the new investor is buying the ground back and also getting a 40% stake in the club. Now I hope this all works out well for our bluenose friends, they could do with a bit of luck to be fair. However, the opening gambit are plans to bulldozer the ground and build a new one nearby. Also I would ask who owns the ground once he has joined BCFC, is it in the name of BCFC? or the new owner? For me there is a subtle difference. All I am seeing at the moment is a potential property developer working his magic, I really hope I am wrong.

Coming back to the subject matter, I would be astonished if Lai has not considered this line revenue generation.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 10, 2023, 04:18:04 PM
I mentioned Blues in passing just by way of suggesting there are buyers out there. It is the potential property transaction that has bought in new ownership and let's be clear they are a hedge fund they are there for the money. However Blues  are in need of new ownership as much as we are. If all goes to plan they get a new stadium less than a mile away from St Andrews and are on a much stronger footing going forward.

Would I welcome something similar at the Albion? Well maybe. I would welcome anybody with some sort of plan as opposed to an ownership which is drifting aimlessly. Yet there are dangers here and they are pretty obvious. The new ground has to be built before the old one is sold and the ownership of the ground has to reside with the club.

Without a firm proposal on the table it is impossible to judge. I still fear that the only way that the Lai ownership ends is in chaos and ultimately administration. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on May 11, 2023, 12:22:30 PM
It would be interesting to know what Lai would accept to sell the club? Not sure what its realistically worth right now, but with the added loan to worry about, it can't be worth much?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 11, 2023, 12:29:44 PM
This made me smile.

We have a plan apparently  ::)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/05/11/west-brom-financial-peril-plan-carlos-corberan/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on May 11, 2023, 12:40:56 PM
This made me smile.

We have a plan apparently  ::)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/05/11/west-brom-financial-peril-plan-carlos-corberan/

Cant read it unless you subscribe??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: aidacuk on May 11, 2023, 01:51:04 PM
Try this:

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Ffootball%2F2023%2F05%2F11%2Fwest-brom-financial-peril-plan-carlos-corberan%2F
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 11, 2023, 02:31:40 PM
Nothing new in there that we don’t already know to be honest. Thank you for posting though
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 11, 2023, 02:57:00 PM
This made me smile.

We have a plan apparently  ::)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/05/11/west-brom-financial-peril-plan-carlos-corberan/

Yes the plan includes:
- Find value in hidden gems like BTA
- Main focus on free agents
- Sell players on high wages
- Retain Wallace, Swift & O'Shea unless serious money is tabled for them

Article also states that Carlos has been at the training ground every day since Swansea, that he already has transfer targets in mind and wants business done to be fully prepared for when pre-season starts in late June (good luck with that).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on May 11, 2023, 04:20:35 PM
Yes the plan includes:
- Find value in hidden gems like BTA
- Main focus on free agents
- Sell players on high wages
- Retain Wallace, Swift & O'Shea unless serious money is tabled for them

Article also states that Carlos has been at the training ground every day since Swansea, that he already has transfer targets in mind and wants business done to be fully prepared for when pre-season starts in late June (good luck with that).

Seemed a bit of a non-article to me. I think most of us knew they want to sell higher earners (you can add Grant to that list too) - whilst probably keeping those we bought in last season. Aside from that, we'll probably be after cheap free agents and bargains from lower leagues.

Overall, not a terrible strategy if we were operated correctly. But we're not, and haven't been for some time. It's just cost-cutting without a clear vision in my opinion and is delaying the inevitable doom.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 11, 2023, 04:21:27 PM
Does the article say the plan involves the transfer committee and whether they now have to bring their own biscuits in light of cut backs?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 11, 2023, 04:40:33 PM
Seemed a bit of a non-article to me. I think most of us knew they want to sell higher earners (you can add Grant to that list too) - whilst probably keeping those we bought in last season. Aside from that, we'll probably be after cheap free agents and bargains from lower leagues.

Overall, not a terrible strategy if we were operated correctly. But we're not, and haven't been for some time. It's just cost-cutting without a clear vision in my opinion and is delaying the inevitable doom.

I think you will find that there is a very clear vison, and its called 'cost cutting' .

Once again we will take our place in the queue for free agents and bargain bucket specials, but this time I think we will be a bit further back in the queue

Actually I was disappointed with the piece given who the author was. If there ever was a 'stating the bl**ding obvious' prize, this would be a front runner........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 11, 2023, 06:04:46 PM
Since the Daily Telegraph is a national newspaper I guess it might be targeted at a rather wider audience than those on this site
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KN22 on May 11, 2023, 10:37:25 PM
Try this:

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Ffootball%2F2023%2F05%2F11%2Fwest-brom-financial-peril-plan-carlos-corberan%2F

It works, thank you.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 12, 2023, 09:25:54 AM
Since the Daily Telegraph is a national newspaper I guess it might be targeted at a rather wider audience than those on this site

I suspect you are right NJS, but I think the plight of our club is fairly well known to many who have any interest in football, and there will be many more out there who simply don't care. As a reader who has absolutely no idea what the problem is, the article is informative. However, to the vast majority not on this site the article will come as no surprise.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 12, 2023, 10:45:43 AM
With new sky deal for 24/25 of £13 million per club it’s imperative that we don’t get relegated next season and with gate receipts and shirt sales etc Albion should have £20 million annually.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionfan1983 on May 17, 2023, 01:47:01 PM
Cheer up Rob', Ron' might have Laurence Bassini's number in his rolodex. I hear he's up for owning a(nother) football club. What could possibly go wrong  ;D ?

A twitter account claiming to be him said he brought west brom lol
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 17, 2023, 01:56:13 PM
With new sky deal for 24/25 of £13 million per club it’s imperative that we don’t get relegated next season and with gate receipts and shirt sales etc Albion should have £20 million annually.

Good news for limiting our debt obligations but no competitive advantage as every other club in the league will enjoy the same increase in revenue.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on May 17, 2023, 03:55:24 PM
The only competitive advantage we have is Carlos IMHO.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 17, 2023, 10:02:17 PM
Not Lai but not making a separate thread for this bloke too.

From liquidator podcast :

Breaking News:  The sole director of WBA Group Xu Ke (aka 'Ken') has refused to answer ANY of the 38 questions recently posed by the club's minority shareholders, claiming that they aren't entitled to the information and citing confidentiality.  #WBAFC
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on May 17, 2023, 10:05:02 PM
"They aren't entitled to the information".

Remember that when you get huffy about fans protesting outside and inside the ground folks. A group of blokes from a land the other side of the world with no connection to your local community have no respect for you, your club or your community.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 17, 2023, 10:06:05 PM
It's equally disgusting and expected at the same time.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on May 17, 2023, 10:09:53 PM
"They aren't entitled to the information".

Remember that when you get huffy about fans protesting outside and inside the ground folks. A group of blokes from a land the other side of the world with no connection to your local community have no respect for you, your club or your community.
In real terms he actually doesn’t have an obligation to answer the questions .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on May 17, 2023, 10:47:14 PM
In real terms he actually doesn’t have an obligation to answer the questions .

Moral obligation would be a good start.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 18, 2023, 02:51:35 AM
"They aren't entitled to the information".

Remember that when you get huffy about fans protesting outside and inside the ground folks. A group of blokes from a land the other side of the world with no connection to your local community have no respect for you, your club or your community.

This pretty much highlights gap between most fans view of how football clubs should conduct themselves and the realities of the rights even of shareholders (not just fans) under UK company law. Here I am assuming this response has been given the okay by the clubs lawyers but it rings true given my layman's knowledge of these matters.

On many of the matters raised the Club can legitimately claim commercial confidentiality but as an across the board response to all the issues raised it is wholly inadequate and does seem to signal an unwillingness to engage with a Group that does have not only concerns shared by many supporters but does have money invested in the club.

Sadly I am not surprised by the response but it does not make it any less appalling.   

 

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 18, 2023, 08:18:01 AM
Not Lai but not making a separate thread for this bloke too.

From liquidator podcast :

Breaking News:  The sole director of WBA Group Xu Ke (aka 'Ken') has refused to answer ANY of the 38 questions recently posed by the club's minority shareholders, claiming that they aren't entitled to the information and citing confidentiality.  #WBAFC

Actually I would have thought that as a shareholder you are entitled to know what is going on with your investment. however this is the response we all expected so it comes as no surprise.

As I mentioned before I personally think that the request is something that needed to be put into place before further [potentially legal] action by S4A. The club has had the opportunity to explain the reasoning behind the actions they have taken - they have chosen to go 'no comment'. 

If S4A are going down this route then I fully support them. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 18, 2023, 08:25:30 AM
IMO, if Lai had planned to be here for the longer term, he would have addressed some of the questions posed by S4A. It would have been in his interests to have them on side.
If the rumours are true, & he is in discussions with other investors, he's probably been advised to play a straight bat.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 18, 2023, 08:42:32 AM
IMO, if Lai had planned to be here for the longer term, he would have addressed some of the questions posed by S4A. It would have been in his interests to have them on side.
If the rumours are true, & he is in discussions with other investors, he's probably been advised to play a straight bat.

Not one from Wuhan then...........
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 18, 2023, 08:50:46 AM
Not one from Wuhan then...........

Ha ha,  :) I was searching for another phrase, but couldn't think of one.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 18, 2023, 08:52:07 AM
IMO, if Lai had planned to be here for the longer term, he would have addressed some of the questions posed by S4A. It would have been in his interests to have them on side.
If the rumours are true, & he is in discussions with other investors, he's probably been advised to play a straight bat.

Based on what? Lai's been fronting for an investment group since 2016 and to date he's expressed little if any interest towards them. So how have you formed the opinion he'd be any more open but for potential investment talks? Because from where I'm looking there's zero evidence to support this.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 18, 2023, 09:22:55 AM
Based on what? Lai's been fronting for an investment group since 2016 and to date he's expressed little if any interest towards them. So how have you formed the opinion he'd be any more open but for potential investment talks? Because from where I'm looking there's zero evidence to support this.

That's the issue really, there is no evidence to support any of Lai's intentions. The only thing it is fair to assume is that he will accept an offer close to what he paid, which is not going to happen. Anything else is absolute guesswork.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 18, 2023, 10:22:49 AM
Based on what? Lai's been fronting for an investment group since 2016 and to date he's expressed little if any interest towards them. So how have you formed the opinion he'd be any more open but for potential investment talks? Because from where I'm looking there's zero evidence to support this.

Think I've qualified it by saying longer term, it's in his interests to have them onside.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 18, 2023, 10:32:38 AM
Think I've qualified it by saying longer term, it's in his interests to have them onside.

The only thing you've qualified is that you're making an assumption based on a guess. He clearly doesn't give a flying fart about the 12% as proven over a near seven period or Shareholders for Albion in particular.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on May 18, 2023, 11:12:10 AM
Has Ron the position become untenable, With this statement which came from owners mouth piece?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 18, 2023, 11:50:05 AM
The only thing you've qualified is that you're making an assumption based on a guess. He clearly doesn't give a flying fart about the 12% as proven over a near seven period or Shareholders for Albion in particular.

I think I'll have to find a way of explaining myself better.

I know he doesn't give a flying fart, but S4A & A4A campaigns are now gathering momentum.
If he sees WBA as a continuing project, then it would be in his interests to open a dialogue with them.
The fact that he has chosen not to, suggests to me that he doen't see it as a continuing project.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 18, 2023, 11:51:38 AM
Has Ron the position become untenable, With this statement which came from owners mouth piece?

IMO, it's pretty close.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 18, 2023, 11:54:09 AM
Has Ron the position become untenable, With this statement which came from owners mouth piece?

I have supported him in the past, but the silence is deafening.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 18, 2023, 12:10:35 PM
I have supported him in the past, but the silence is deafening.

I think Paul's right, Lai has thrown him under a bus, difficult to see what Gourlay could say that would appease both sides.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 18, 2023, 12:34:30 PM
I think Paul's right, Lai has thrown him under a bus, difficult to see what Gourlay could say that would appease both sides.

'I'm off' might be a good start
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 18, 2023, 12:42:33 PM
I think Paul's right, Lai has thrown him under a bus, difficult to see what Gourlay could say that would appease both sides.

I anticipate that he is working full time on the season ticket renewal notice, wordsmithing words like ‘excellent value’ and ‘competitively priced’ into it, as well as a load of other fiction….
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 18, 2023, 12:54:42 PM
'I'm off' might be a good start

That would leave Ken and Lai to run the club, the exact opposite of a good start.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on May 18, 2023, 01:40:29 PM
Big Ron is the Schofield of WBA, he wont quit unless he is forced out with a big package.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 18, 2023, 02:01:04 PM
Ron's position became untenable when he said the ownership would repay the loan by the end of last year and they failed to do so. They threw him under the bus at point this is reversing the bus over him but frankly he will keep shilling for them as long as there is a pay cheque in it for him. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 18, 2023, 02:54:00 PM
Big Ron is the Schofield of WBA, he wont quit unless he is forced out with a big package.

I hear that Schofield is always looking for a big package...... ;)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 18, 2023, 03:26:11 PM
I hear that Schofield is always looking for a big package...... ;)

Never has a problem with delivery slots either, the rewards of infamy.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on May 18, 2023, 05:51:56 PM
The only thing you've qualified is that you're making an assumption based on a guess. He clearly doesn't give a flying fart about the 12% as proven over a near seven period or Shareholders for Albion in particular.

Add 14 years to that total. JP treated the minority shareholders with absolute disdain too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on May 18, 2023, 11:09:53 PM
Moral obligation would be a good start.
Well that could be attributed to every single part of society ….and there is much more important things than a football club?
Anyway, I don’t think the protests have had any effect whatsoever, the man at the top remains the man at the top.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 19, 2023, 11:41:12 AM
Not Lai but not making a separate thread for this bloke too.

From liquidator podcast :

Breaking News:  The sole director of WBA Group Xu Ke (aka 'Ken') has refused to answer ANY of the 38 questions recently posed by the club's minority shareholders, claiming that they aren't entitled to the information and citing confidentiality.  #WBAFC

I think that this makes clear how little the folk at Yunyi Guokai investments are bothered about the opinions of a faraway rabble holding placards and shouting obscenities at them.  We might have done better to engage constructively and explain to them how their lead investor Mr Lai has been sold a pup and they would do better to persuade him to sell up before their investment goes completely south.

There is also the matter of potential legal proceedings over unpaid loans that might go to the courts and bring some untoward publicity that they really might care to avoid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 19, 2023, 11:50:53 AM
I think that this makes clear how little the folk at Yunyi Guokai investments are bothered about the opinions of a faraway rabble holding placards and shouting obscenities at them.  We might have done better to engage constructively and explain to them how their lead investor Mr Lai has been sold a pup and they would do better to persuade him to sell up before their investment goes completely south.

There is also the matter of potential legal proceedings over unpaid loans that might go to the courts and bring some untoward publicity that they really might care to avoid.

I've got some sympathy with this opinion, I also thought that the letter from S4A had a confrontational tone.

On the other hand, I can understand their frustrations after banging on a closed door for years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 19, 2023, 12:48:14 PM
I've got some sympathy with this opinion, I also thought that the letter from S4A had a confrontational tone.

On the other hand, I can understand their frustrations after banging on a closed door for years.

I understand what you are saying John, but I think we have asked nicely before and got nowhere. In my former professional capacity, having dealt with many letters like that in the past, it was done for a reason and we got the result that most folk expected. It would appear that there is no talking to these owners regardless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 19, 2023, 01:03:27 PM
I understand what you are saying John, but I think we have asked nicely before and got nowhere. In my former professional capacity, having dealt with many letters like that in the past, it was done for a reason and we got the result that most folk expected. It would appear that there is no talking to these owners regardless.

Yes, I understand that & thanks for clearing it up. It did occur to me that there could be legal reasons for adopting that style.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 19, 2023, 01:33:27 PM
Had I written that letter it would have been different however given the absolute failure of the ownership (as represented by Ken) to engage at any level with the many legitimate questions that S4A posed I doubt there would have a been a different outcome.

I don't know where we go from here. S4A probably haven't got the resources for a legal battle to force disclosure and it must be very doubtful that they would win in any event.

I always felt protest by fans other than a boycott of the club would have only a marginal impact. The protest to date has raised awareness of the issues at the club but it hasn't prompted the ownership to sell up or even settle the loans that are outstanding.

I suspect there will be a slow decline in ticket sales as individual fans become more disenchanted. A couple of disappointing seasons would have triggered that anyway but I suspect the board's stance will do little to turn the tide. However I still think most fans are responding to what they see on the pitch rather than the bigger issues surrounding the club.

The ownership will carry on regardless until they financially can't soldier on. That might be years which is a dispiriting thought.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 19, 2023, 01:44:50 PM
Had I written that letter it would have been different however given the absolute failure of the ownership (as represented by Ken) to engage at any level with the many legitimate questions that S4A posed I doubt there would have a been a different outcome.

I don't know where we go from here. S4A probably haven't got the resources for a legal battle to force disclosure and it must be very doubtful that they would win in any event.

I always felt protest by fans other than a boycott of the club would have only a marginal impact. The protest to date has raised awareness of the issues at the club but it hasn't prompted the ownership to sell up or even settle the loans that are outstanding.

I suspect there will be a slow decline in ticket sales as individual fans become more disenchanted. A couple of disappointing seasons would have triggered that anyway but I suspect the board's stance will do little to turn the tide. However I still think most fans are responding to what they see on the pitch rather than the bigger issues surrounding the club.

The ownership will carry on regardless until they financially can't soldier on. That might be years which is a dispiriting thought.

I don't think there is anything we can do Stan. A4A have raised the issue and put it firmly in the public domain, they were never going to achieve anything more than that. Not sure what S4A are up to, but I do remember a none disclosure agreement being put in place a few months ago. However, I think that was more to do with business boy than Lai. As I have mentioned before, the tone of their latest request stinks of legal terminology.

Other than continue to voice our discontent I think we have to let nature takes its course. Never been a fan of boycotts personally, and I think in this case it will not influence Lai anyway. Given the shape we are likely to be in next year and our potential further demise into L1, we don't need to consider staying away, Lai will have inadvertently done that for us with his catastrophic mismanagement of our once great club. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 19, 2023, 03:24:51 PM

I think I'll have to find a way of explaining myself better.

I know he doesn't give a flying fart, but S4A & A4A campaigns are now gathering momentum.
If he sees WBA as a continuing project, then it would be in his interests to open a dialogue with them.
The fact that he has chosen not to, suggests to me that he doen't see it as a continuing project.

Not really John but thank you for taking the time. Showers permitting I think I'll make the most of the sun coming out and cut the grass later this afternoon. It grows very quickly this time of year providing me with an ongoing project of my own. With that in mind I'll leave you to ponder what's in Lai's best interests. Toodle pip.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Nickwba1 on May 19, 2023, 03:50:20 PM
I've got some sympathy with this opinion, I also thought that the letter from S4A had a confrontational tone.

On the other hand, I can understand their frustrations after banging on a closed door for years.

And that goes back to JP’s time too when I was a shareholder. Moving AGM to London, and very little in the way of engagement. It’s just got a whole lot worse now though it seems.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 23, 2023, 06:28:36 PM
Ken has officially refused to meet with Action for Albion according to their twitter
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 23, 2023, 07:37:35 PM
Ken has officially refused to meet with Action for Albion according to their twitter

These bozos are going to bury us aren't they?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 23, 2023, 07:46:00 PM
These bozos are going to bury us aren't they?

Didn't the statement say A4A still have a dialogue with the Football Club Board?

If I were Ron Gourlay, I wouldn't be happy if a fan group was able to by-pass me to my boss.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 23, 2023, 08:08:36 PM
Didn't the statement say A4A still have a dialogue with the Football Club Board?

If I were Ron Gourlay, I wouldn't be happy if a fan group was able to by-pass me to my boss.

Agreed, but we most certainly are not Ron.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on May 24, 2023, 12:20:30 AM
Didn't the statement say A4A still have a dialogue with the Football Club Board?

If I were Ron Gourlay, I wouldn't be happy if a fan group was able to by-pass me to my boss.

Gourlay is the Head of the board isn't he? He is the one they speak of from what I can see.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 24, 2023, 03:53:06 AM
Gourlay is the Head of the board isn't he? He is the one they speak of from what I can see.

Judging by the statement below (taken from the last Assembly meeting) he has about as much influence with the Chinese ownership as I do

RG reiterated his desire to maintain open communication with the fanbase, saying he was encouraged to see a large, diverse group attending the Assembly and that he would continue to engage with all groups – including Action for Albion and Shareholders for Albion, both of whom he meets regularly. He added that he understands the frustration and protests of supporters, and wants to try and bring people together during a difficult time by being in contact with supporter groups, offering information, clarification and attempting to work out issues.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2023, 08:44:31 AM
Gourlay is the Head of the board isn't he? He is the one they speak of from what I can see.

But S4A "insisted on" a direct meeting with Ken, thus by-passing Gourlay.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 24, 2023, 11:47:17 AM
But S4A "insisted on" a direct meeting with Ken, thus by-passing Gourlay.

I believe it was done with Ron Gourlay's knowledge and if so I have no reason to believe Ron Gourlay wouldn't have been present were a direct meeting agreed to.

As he's the CEO I can't really see how he wouldn't have been involved unless Ken were to suggest he stayed away of course, in which case I couldn't envisage Ken retaining his services.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 24, 2023, 12:18:10 PM
My only criticism of the S4A letter was it is asked lots of questions that could never be answered, demanding the club effectively open up their books and disclose confidential contracts. That all was very naive and made the rebuttal of the letter easier than had the questions stayed within realistic tramlines. Although I suspect the club would have ignored the letter regardless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2023, 12:26:04 PM
My only criticism of the S4A letter was it is asked lots of questions that could never be answered, demanding the club effectively open up their books and disclose confidential contracts. That all was very naive and made the rebuttal of the letter easier than had the questions stayed within realistic tramlines. Although I suspect the club would have ignored the letter regardless.

This is not about the S4A letter, Ken refused a face to face meeting with A4A.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 24, 2023, 09:56:23 PM
My only criticism of the S4A letter was it is asked lots of questions that could never be answered, demanding the club effectively open up their books and disclose confidential contracts. That all was very naive and made the rebuttal of the letter easier than had the questions stayed within realistic tramlines. Although I suspect the club would have ignored the letter regardless.

Minority shareholders have a legal right to ask questions.  They have invested into the company and so have legal rights. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 25, 2023, 02:49:06 PM
Minority shareholders have a legal right to ask questions.  They have invested into the company and so have legal rights.

Strawman response. My point was not that they should not be asking questions, what I said was that their questions exceeded the scope of what they were entitled to know and went into areas that no company could ever deal with, even one well run; which made the club's decision to effectively throw the letter in the bin easier than it should have been. Albeit, I would not have expected the club to have cooperated regardless, as Lai and Ken have obviously decided to ignore all questions put to them and do as they please; one more reason why I can't get my head around fans thinking that ousting Gourlay and leaving those two alone on the board would amount to a positive step. I doubt we will ever see Lai at the Hawthorns again, and I fully expect he will continue to use whatever revenue we generated to mitigate the loss and debt that he and his other consortium investors are holding.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on May 26, 2023, 06:30:43 PM
I think that this makes clear how little the folk at Yunyi Guokai investments are bothered about the opinions of a faraway rabble holding placards and shouting obscenities at them.  We might have done better to engage constructively and explain to them how their lead investor Mr Lai has been sold a pup and they would do better to persuade him to sell up before their investment goes completely south.

There is also the matter of potential legal proceedings over unpaid loans that might go to the courts and bring some untoward publicity that they really might care to avoid.

I agree, the protests must be stopped immediately and we must engage with "them" more constructively to tell "them" that their investment is not doing very well.

They wouldn't know that already, of that I am sure. So you provide me with name and address of who to "engage" with in China and I'll write to "them" telling "them" of the bad news of our relegations and that we aren't in the Premier league anymore, and sadly their £200m investment wasn't a wise one and they should sell up and go.

I'm sure that will do it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 27, 2023, 08:33:48 AM
Strawman response. My point was not that they should not be asking questions, what I said was that their questions exceeded the scope of what they were entitled to know and went into areas that no company could ever deal with, even one well run; which made the club's decision to effectively throw the letter in the bin easier than it should have been. Albeit, I would not have expected the club to have cooperated regardless, as Lai and Ken have obviously decided to ignore all questions put to them and do as they please; one more reason why I can't get my head around fans thinking that ousting Gourlay and leaving those two alone on the board would amount to a positive step. I doubt we will ever see Lai at the Hawthorns again, and I fully expect he will continue to use whatever revenue we generated to mitigate the loss and debt that he and his other consortium investors are holding.

That is correct re some of the questions, but by no means all of them.  However it is a principal of company law that the board owed a fiduciary duty to ALL shareholders and it is possible for a board to answer questions privately.  The behaviour of the Group board in refusing to answer, and moreover refusing to hold an AGM (the correct forum for putting questions to the board) is Group’s undoing.   

Very simply, if you don’t want to buy a company with minority shareholders then either don’t buy the company, or buy out the shareholders.  They are the only ways to get around the rights of minority shareholders.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 27, 2023, 09:16:48 AM
I agree, the protests must be stopped immediately and we must engage with "them" more constructively to tell "them" that their investment is not doing very well.

They wouldn't know that already, of that I am sure. So you provide me with name and address of who to "engage" with in China and I'll write to "them" telling "them" of the bad news of our relegations and that we aren't in the Premier league anymore, and sadly their £200m investment wasn't a wise one and they should sell up and go.

I'm sure that will do it.

This sort of dialogue unfortunately can't come from you or indeed me.  The minority shareholders are those who are entitled to ask at least some questions or open up a correspondence with Yunyi Guokai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 27, 2023, 12:15:42 PM
That is correct re some of the questions, but by no means all of them.  However it is a principal of company law that the board owed a fiduciary duty to ALL shareholders and it is possible for a board to answer questions privately.  The behaviour of the Group board in refusing to answer, and moreover refusing to hold an AGM (the correct forum for putting questions to the board) is Group’s undoing.   

Very simply, if you don’t want to buy a company with minority shareholders then either don’t buy the company, or buy out the shareholders.  They are the only ways to get around the rights of minority shareholders.

And herein lies part of the problem. A member of S4A has previous for publishing correspondence with the club online when the club requested that correspondence remained private.

S4A and AforA are trying their hardest to increase transparency. But it's my belief that despite their best intentions at the time, whomever posted that information online played straight into the club's hands re communications.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on May 27, 2023, 01:51:55 PM
Keep protesting, stopping will be seen as a sign of weakness and lack of determination. The situation is very very serious, the time to do nothing has passed. Take some lessons from the morons at Just Stop Oil and Just Stop Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 27, 2023, 02:44:25 PM
Don't fancy chaining myself to the gates or super gluing my hands to my part of the Baggies Brick Road in all honesty. And I'm definitely not sitting in front of the entrance to the training ground like they did at the fuel distribution centre. Mind you the sun's out so I could always take a bag of cans and top up the freckles at the same time  8) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on May 29, 2023, 10:48:34 PM
Lepkowski just posted the below on Facebook

"I'm hearing Xu Ke has been given until 4pm on 6/6/23 to respond to the recent S4A questions. Failure to do so may see this particular issue escalated down more formal (legal) pathways."
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 30, 2023, 10:40:51 AM
Article in the Express & Star confirming the latest developments.

Albion shareholders have set director Xu Ke a deadline of one week to provide operational and financial answers before taking on legal action.


Fed-up Albion shareholders have set WBA Group director Xu Ke a deadline of next Tuesday, June 6 to come up with answers related to the operational and financial running of the club – before warning of legal action.

Shareholders for Albion (S4A), who represent many of the minority shareholders who own 12 per cent of the Baggies, are in a dispute with Ke (Ken) over undisclosed details.

And fed-up and frustrated minority shareholders have set a time of 4pm next Tuesday, June 6, for Ken to respond with the "substantive and meaningful responses required".

Should Ken, who is based in the West Midlands, continue with his stance of not disclosing information related to club, WBA Group and WBA Holdings accounts, including controversial loans, then S4A have warned they will take "necessary legal steps".

This latest communication comes after the shareholders sought legal advice on the director's silent approach.

At the beginning of May S4A sent Ken, sole director of WBA Group, a 38-question dossier requesting further information on several fronts, many featured in the latest set of accounts, to June 2022.

The part owners believe they, as shareholders at whatever level, have a right to such information but that has been refuted by the director in his latest communications to S4A members, seen by the Express & Star.

Ken’s refusal to answer the points has already been reported and now it can be revealed an extract from a letter from the director dated May 12 reads: “As I set out in my letter to you of 15 September 2022 in relation to your questions on the 2021 accounts, shareholders of English companies are not entitled to the type of detailed information in relation to business operational matters...Many of the questions you raise are about issues that are subject to confidentiality obligations.”

That point is strongly contested by minority shareholders – and S4A sounded out legal advice as they continued to argue the case; they are privy to such detail, as Ken continues to not permit an AGM.

Shareholders have revealed to the Express & Star their fury is ever increasing at a situation they have described as “farcical”.

The letter from Ken confirmed that in the director’s recent visit to China where he met with controlling shareholder Guochuan Lai he delivered a letter from pressure group Action for Albion jointly co-signed by various Albion supporter groups to the chairman.

He added he “awaits further information” from Lai.

Shareholders are desperately chasing information and answers from the absent Lai, and more likely representative at The Hawthorns Ken, after the publication of the accounts to June 2022 were published in early April.

Should Albion struggle to raise funds through player sales this summer, the club was described as “a material uncertainty” in the accounts.


Ken was also asked, once again, when the £5million – plus interest – loan Lai took from Albion to his company Wisdom Smart Ltd would be repaid. That loan was confirmed as impaired to nil in a statement after several repayment deadlines passed, the last of which was “early in the new year”.

The club are owed at least £10m by Lai and with a lack of any investment a £20m loan from private equity firm MSD Holdings was taken, at an interest rate of around 14 per cent, to cover for parachute payments, which finish this summer. The annual interest of this is estimated to cost the Baggies around £2.8m.

Shareholders also wish to know that, if Ken received professional advice for his response to S4A’s questions, whether such advice was in the interests of the controlling shareholder, or the club who are fighting uncertainty while owed millions



A few observations here

1. I don't know how well funded on S4A are but the legal fees on this could get quite chunky.

2. Ken can claim commercial confidentiality on some of the questions asked, however on the broader question of current trading position the shareholders should have the right to know, especially as MSD certainly will be supplied with that information.

3. You will be shocked as to how few rights that minority shareholders have. Although with 5% of the shareholding minority shareholders can call an EGM, as S4A haven't done that I suspect they don't represent 5% of the shareholdings.

4. They can under the 2006 company's act apply for "relief"  if the Company's actions are "unfairly prejudicial to the member's interests as a member.  And an actual or proposed act or omission of the company is or would be so prejudicial.” My view is the loan to an associated party of the majority shareholder and in particular it's subsequent none payment is extremely prejudicial to the interests of the member. However what the legal remedy is I am not sure and nor am I sure as to how much it would cost to get that judgement.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on May 30, 2023, 11:05:32 AM
Stan (or indeed anyone else), do you know if they have, or plan to, set up a crowd funding site to help with the legal costs? I'm sure that's the way forward for them as I and I'm sure many many more would be happy to contribute. I also wouldn't be surprised to see contributions coming in from fans of other clubs
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 30, 2023, 11:23:51 AM
I don't think they do but S4A's website is http://s4a.org/

Action for Albion a separate but aligned fan group does have a go fund me page  https://www.gofundme.com/f/action-for-albion
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on May 30, 2023, 12:15:43 PM
The thing that is totally useless is the threat of legal action, it would take years for that to be settled and hopefully they will be gone by then. Also they have more money than S4A to undertake a lengthy and very expensive legal battle. They won't care about S4A and certainly not A4A, unfortunately they will only go when they are ready.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on May 30, 2023, 01:04:31 PM
The thing that is totally useless is the threat of legal action, it would take years for that to be settled and hopefully they will be gone by then. Also they have more money than S4A to undertake a lengthy and very expensive legal battle. They won't care about S4A and certainly not A4A, unfortunately they will only go when they are ready.

Agree with you on this, it would be nice if they could put that money into the club though rather than using it to fight a legal battle all the while looking for new creative ways to take money out of the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on May 30, 2023, 01:06:39 PM
The thing that is totally useless is the threat of legal action, it would take years for that to be settled and hopefully they will be gone by then. Also they have more money than S4A to undertake a lengthy and very expensive legal battle. They won't care about S4A and certainly not A4A, unfortunately they will only go when they are ready.

I can see where  you are coming from.  Yet I disagree fans need to make things as uncomfortable as possible for the owners so when the opportunity arises to bail out they take it.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on May 30, 2023, 01:08:18 PM
The thing that is totally useless is the threat of legal action, it would take years for that to be settled and hopefully they will be gone by then. Also they have more money than S4A to undertake a lengthy and very expensive legal battle. They won't care about S4A and certainly not A4A, unfortunately they will only go when they are ready.

I agree the legal battle would a long one but I don't think they have a pot to p*** in, so wouldn't want the legal bills either. 

Fingers crossed they are gone very quickly. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 30, 2023, 01:14:39 PM
I agree the legal battle would a long one but I don't think they have a pot to p*** in, so wouldn't want the legal bills either. 

Fingers crossed they are gone very quickly.

I think I'm right in saying they paid their last lot of legal fees from Group's coffers, not their own.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 30, 2023, 02:53:13 PM
The thing that is totally useless is the threat of legal action, it would take years for that to be settled and hopefully they will be gone by then. Also they have more money than S4A to undertake a lengthy and very expensive legal battle. They won't care about S4A and certainly not A4A, unfortunately they will only go when they are ready.

When you think about it, what S4A are doing is another form of protest akin to what A4A are doing. I don't for one second think that the threat of legal action is an empty threat, and you can see from the structure and tone of their letter that S4A mean business. I have said from the start that the request is formatted legally and is the start of a process. That is corroborated by the fact that a deadline for a response has now been put in place.
I will also point out that we know very little about S4A, and we are certainly not privy to their financial affairs, so let's not assume that they cannot afford this fight. To me they seem determined and have a point to prove.
I think Lai & co will be bothered about S4A as they are asking awkward questions, and unlike A4A they cannot be ignored.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tuamigos on May 30, 2023, 04:26:53 PM
Is he still here?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 30, 2023, 05:00:42 PM
When you think about it, what S4A are doing is another form of protest akin to what A4A are doing. I don't for one second think that the threat of legal action is an empty threat, and you can see from the structure and tone of their letter that S4A mean business. I have said from the start that the request is formatted legally and is the start of a process. That is corroborated by the fact that a deadline for a response has now been put in place.
I will also point out that we know very little about S4A, and we are certainly not privy to their financial affairs, so let's not assume that they cannot afford this fight. To me they seem determined and have a point to prove.
I think Lai & co will be bothered about S4A as they are asking awkward questions, and unlike A4A they cannot be ignored.

From recollection, earlier on in this topic, someone cast doubts on the wisdom of querying the Periera  sale in the letter.
Most of the other questions were reasonable & IMO, could have been answered without creating a conflict of confidentiality.

Personally think it might have been better to hold the Periera question back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 30, 2023, 08:28:27 PM
From recollection, earlier on in this topic, someone cast doubts on the wisdom of querying the Periera  sale in the letter.
Most of the other questions were reasonable & IMO, could have been answered without creating a conflict of confidentiality.

Personally think it might have been better to hold the Periera question back.

Here is the question:

2. Concern remains as to the level of transfer fee negotiated for the sale of Matheus Pereira in the summer of 2021, particularly given his very healthy contractual situation at that time and the transfer fees of players at the same time of equivalent or arguably less ability.

An example of this being Emiliano Buendia's transfer from Norwich City to Aston Villa (had not played at Premier League level). The reported transfer fee for Pereira (by then an already proven and recognised Premier League performer) being circa £17-18m and (up to) £38m for Buendia respectively.

This has always seemed very odd to say the least. The reported fallout between (the Head Coach) Valerien Ismael and Matheus Pereira around that time is noted, but that does not account for such a discrepancy.

Subsequent transfer fees for players of equivalent or lesser ability add further weight to concerns on the reported level of the fee actually received by club.

Accordingly, please could the directors of club confirm:

a. Whether or not any payments over and above any transfer fee received by the Club were made directly by Al Hilal SFC or any other party at any time directly or indirectly to any individuals or entities within the controlling shareholders of Group or any other parties as part of the transfer of Matheus Pereira and whether or not any such payments are due to be made at any time.

b. Ditto, for any other form of consideration or business arrangement for money's worth, rather than money.


I know what you mean but it may be that they know something and are trying to corner Lai & Ken. It’s a difficult question, or it can be as simple as ‘no’. It’s not just a ‘why did we sell him so cheaply’ , it is quite a structured question. Of course if there is nothing to hide……
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 30, 2023, 08:47:32 PM
Here is the question:

2. Concern remains as to the level of transfer fee negotiated for the sale of Matheus Pereira in the summer of 2021, particularly given his very healthy contractual situation at that time and the transfer fees of players at the same time of equivalent or arguably less ability.

An example of this being Emiliano Buendia's transfer from Norwich City to Aston Villa (had not played at Premier League level). The reported transfer fee for Pereira (by then an already proven and recognised Premier League performer) being circa £17-18m and (up to) £38m for Buendia respectively.

This has always seemed very odd to say the least. The reported fallout between (the Head Coach) Valerien Ismael and Matheus Pereira around that time is noted, but that does not account for such a discrepancy.

Subsequent transfer fees for players of equivalent or lesser ability add further weight to concerns on the reported level of the fee actually received by club.

Accordingly, please could the directors of club confirm:

a. Whether or not any payments over and above any transfer fee received by the Club were made directly by Al Hilal SFC or any other party at any time directly or indirectly to any individuals or entities within the controlling shareholders of Group or any other parties as part of the transfer of Matheus Pereira and whether or not any such payments are due to be made at any time.

b. Ditto, for any other form of consideration or business arrangement for money's worth, rather than money.


I know what you mean but it may be that they know something and are trying to corner Lai & Ken. It’s a difficult question, or it can be as simple as ‘no’. It’s not just a ‘why did we sell him so cheaply’ , it is quite a structured question. Of course if there is nothing to hide……

Yes, I get that, but sometimes it's a matter of timing, seems to me that they've shown their hand all in one go.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 30, 2023, 08:54:11 PM
Yes, I get that, but sometimes it's a matter of timing, seems to me that they've shown their hand all in one go.

I think it is a line in the sand John, for me the question was asked for a reason. Hopefully we will all find out in due course.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: boinging_along on May 30, 2023, 10:06:53 PM
Based off the evidence from the sting video that was realeased it's a reasonable question but there's no way the club would own up and go "yeah, we did a dodgy deal there, you've got us".  It'll be "that was the market value", "that was the offer on the table", etc
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: webral on May 31, 2023, 04:47:34 AM
I've always been skeptical of the fee amount received for Pereira by the club. If there is any inside knowledge leading to the question being asked, hopefully it comes to light.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on May 31, 2023, 07:37:21 AM
Based off the evidence from the sting video that was realeased it's a reasonable question but there's no way the club would own up and go "yeah, we did a dodgy deal there, you've got us".  It'll be "that was the market value", "that was the offer on the table", etc

While the wages reportedly on offer to Pereira made things extremely difficult for us it clearly wasn't the market value though. Not given what the Vile paid for Buendia and what we eventually committed to paying Huddersfield for Grant once the fishy ones went for Watkins too.

The political infighting between Dowling and Bilic has been done to death as has Lai's questionable at best tenure. But there's no way (in my eyes at least) they could use market value as a creditable defence on Pereira. No way at all and I know that you're not.

It would be like suggesting Buendia was twice the player of Pereira and Grant was worth more to us as a club than our former Brazilian playmaker. They'd be better off suggesting that despite parachute payments we were completely skint post Covid and naively snatched at the first tangible bid.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 31, 2023, 10:12:00 AM
I think I'm right in saying they paid their last lot of legal fees from Group's coffers, not their own.

Exactly this.  As  I understand it, if S4A start legal proceedings against Ken Xu (Director of Group) then he might be entitled to use Group money for his legal expenses.  We need to restrict any action to those alleged transgressions that can be laid squarely at WBA Holdings door.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 31, 2023, 10:58:05 AM
Exactly this.  As  I understand it, if S4A start legal proceedings against Ken Xu (Director of Group) then he might be entitled to use Group money for his legal expenses.  We need to restrict any action to those alleged transgressions that can be laid squarely at WBA Holdings door.

Think there could be a problem there, don't S4A only have a legitimate interest in the Group & Football Club companies?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 31, 2023, 11:33:56 AM
While the wages reportedly on offer to Pereira made things extremely difficult for us it clearly wasn't the market value though. Not given what the Vile paid for Buendia and what we eventually committed to paying Huddersfield for Grant once the fishy ones went for Watkins too.

The political infighting between Dowling and Bilic has been done to death as has Lai's questionable at best tenure. But there's no way (in my eyes at least) they could use market value as a creditable defence on Pereira. No way at all and I know that you're not.

It would be like suggesting Buendia was twice the player of Pereira and Grant was worth more to us as a club than our former Brazilian playmaker. They'd be better off suggesting that despite parachute payments we were completely skint post Covid and naively snatched at the first tangible bid.

The club is never going to get into a debate with fans or shareholders about their decisions in the transfer market.

I agree that Pereira was worth far more than £18m, and had we been serious about promotion we would have kept him in lieu of bids worth around twice that sum. He was under a long term contract, so the club could have still sold him for a large sum a year later had we failed to go back up. Of course all of this is in the backdrop that there is actual evidence that the board we trying to sell him with a part payment off the books in the prior January window to funnel some of the proceeds out of the club to Lai - completely illegal. That was a sensational story. Dowling directly fingered Ken in that, claiming the scheme to avoid tax, funnel payments to Lai and to break fifa regulations was presented by Ken. In that context we can have no faith in the actions that followed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on May 31, 2023, 11:46:49 AM
The club is never going to get into a debate with fans or shareholders about their decisions in the transfer market.

I agree that Pereira was worth far more than £18m, and had we been serious about promotion we would have kept him in lieu of bids worth around twice that sum. He was under a long term contract, so the club could have still sold him for a large sum a year later had we failed to go back up. Of course all of this is in the backdrop that there is actual evidence that the board we trying to sell him with a part payment off the books in the prior January window to funnel some of the proceeds out of the club to Lai - completely illegal. That was a sensational story. Dowling directly fingered Ken in that, claiming the scheme to avoid tax, funnel payments to Lai and to break fifa regulations was presented by Ken. In that context we can have no faith in the actions that followed.
They say follow the money.  Where is it then?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on May 31, 2023, 11:55:19 AM
The club is never going to get into a debate with fans or shareholders about their decisions in the transfer market.

I agree that Pereira was worth far more than £18m, and had we been serious about promotion we would have kept him in lieu of bids worth around twice that sum. He was under a long term contract, so the club could have still sold him for a large sum a year later had we failed to go back up. Of course all of this is in the backdrop that there is actual evidence that the board we trying to sell him with a part payment off the books in the prior January window to funnel some of the proceeds out of the club to Lai - completely illegal. That was a sensational story. Dowling directly fingered Ken in that, claiming the scheme to avoid tax, funnel payments to Lai and to break fifa regulations was presented by Ken. In that context we can have no faith in the actions that followed.

Not sure there's "actual evidence", there were accusations, that were verified by Dowling.

Agree, the accusations caused serious doubt about the honesty of our owners, but if there was evidence, I would have thought actions would have brought against Lai from both football & government authorities.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 31, 2023, 11:55:23 AM
Think there could be a problem there, don't S4A only have a legitimate interest in the Group & Football Club companies?

A loan made by Club to Holdings to enable Holdings to pay its own legal fees I’d say has every reason to be challenged by minority shareholders
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 31, 2023, 11:58:35 AM
Not sure there's "actual evidence", there were accusations, that were verified by Dowling.

Agree, the accusations caused serious doubt about the honesty of our owners, but if there was evidence, I would have thought actions would have brought against Lai from both football & government authorities.

Pereira had the club over a barrel when he found out that was being set up.  At that point he could effectively force a sale to wherever he wanted to get the most money.  Whilst he had time left on his contract I don’t think we had a leg to stand on (in reality) if we had refused him a sale to Saudi and made him stay or take a much lower wage with a sale to a PL club for what he was really worth.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on May 31, 2023, 11:59:48 AM
A loan made by Club to Holdings to enable Holdings to pay its own legal fees I’d say has every reason to be challenged by minority shareholders

I agree with the action S4A are taking the only problem is any action taken by S4A will be action against the club and any firm that is taken to court will use its own money to defend itself.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on May 31, 2023, 12:22:34 PM
Not sure there's "actual evidence", there were accusations, that were verified by Dowling.

Agree, the accusations caused serious doubt about the honesty of our owners, but if there was evidence, I would have thought actions would have brought against Lai from both football & government authorities.

Perhaps S4A, or a legal entity representing them have spoken to Al Hilal, so already know the answer to the question
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionfan1983 on May 31, 2023, 02:08:15 PM
Pereira had the club over a barrel when he found out that was being set up.  At that point he could effectively force a sale to wherever he wanted to get the most money.  Whilst he had time left on his contract I don’t think we had a leg to stand on (in reality) if we had refused him a sale to Saudi and made him stay or take a much lower wage with a sale to a PL club for what he was really worth.

The whole sale was dodgy. We should have held out for £25-30 Million
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on May 31, 2023, 07:46:45 PM
All other threads are irrelevant until this bloke's intentions are sorted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 31, 2023, 08:10:36 PM
The whole sale was dodgy. We should have held out for £25-30 Million

In normal circumstances yes, but as I said Pereira had the club over a barrel because of what Lai allegedly attempted.  He held all the aces and the club knew it.  No position to take a stance from.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 31, 2023, 08:11:53 PM
In normal circumstances yes, but as I said Pereira had the club over a barrel because of what Lai allegedly attempted.  He held all the aces and the club knew it.  No position to take a stance from.

You are speculating and yet sound completely convinced of your guesswork. Pereira was under a long term contract - how exactly did he have the club over a barrel?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on May 31, 2023, 08:12:28 PM
At this point its really just a case of waiting for him to leave and hoping that the damage isn't too disastrous.

Unfortunately its difficult to see a situation of them leaving willingly given they've already rejected much better offers than their ever going to get going forward, and the club will become increasingly worthless going forward.

The hope then I guess is that we get some decent owners for the first time ever, because more dodgy owners coming in directly after would really be a finisher.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 31, 2023, 08:37:49 PM
You are speculating and yet sound completely convinced of your guesswork. Pereira was under a long term contract - how exactly did he have the club over a barrel?

Because of the attempted skullduggery of selling him in an illegal deal.  Almost certainly a breach of contract by the club which might even have enabled him to tear up his contract.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on May 31, 2023, 09:49:16 PM
Because of the attempted skullduggery of selling him in an illegal deal.  Almost certainly a breach of contract by the club which might even have enabled him to tear up his contract.

Yeah right, he wasn’t sold and all the terms of his contract were adhered to. As horrendous as that story was of the transfer games that were being contemplated it didn’t affect the validity of the players contract with the club. The dodgy deal never got off the ground as the agent it was put to refused to even pitch it.

The reality is that the board / owner couldn’t wait to sell. That is how the January story arose to begin with, they were scheming. Who knows what really went on with the actual summer transfer, but clearly the owner had the clubs interest a long way down from his own financial interest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on May 31, 2023, 10:17:10 PM
Yeah right, he wasn’t sold and all the terms of his contract were adhered to. As horrendous as that story was of the transfer games that were being contemplated it didn’t affect the validity of the players contract with the club. The dodgy deal never got off the ground as the agent it was put to refused to even pitch it.

The reality is that the board / owner couldn’t wait to sell. That is how the January story arose to begin with, they were scheming. Who knows what really went on with the actual summer transfer, but clearly the owner had the clubs interest a long way down from his own financial interest.

I can’t go into details but I’m happy to agree to disagree
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 01, 2023, 10:55:56 AM
I think and sincerely hope we've entered the end game of our current ownership. If so here's hoping it's not a case of out of the wok and into a raging inferno of a car crash.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sing on our own on June 01, 2023, 11:02:26 AM
This may sound harsh and I’m not digging anyone out personally but (imo) anyone who hands money over for season tickets or merchandise while he’s here are part of the problem. Empty ground for a couple of games would force his hand big time. I appreciate people go for the social side and see friends they only see at the football but you could still meet and have a beer. The players wouldn’t care walking out to an empty ground, I know some would prefer it how toxic the ground been of late.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 01, 2023, 11:16:32 AM
I don't think the atmosphere at the Hawthorns was particularly toxic, this was probably helped by the home form. Not exactly electric but certainly not toxic during Carlos's tenure. Could you point to a home fixture since he's been here where the atmosphere was toxic please?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 01, 2023, 11:20:24 AM
This may sound harsh and I’m not digging anyone out personally but (imo) anyone who hands money over for season tickets or merchandise while he’s here are part of the problem. Empty ground for a couple of games would force his hand big time. I appreciate people go for the social side and see friends they only see at the football but you could still meet and have a beer. The players wouldn’t care walking out to an empty ground, I know some would prefer it how toxic the ground been of late.

I will be renewing my ST regardless, like many others we cling on to the faint hope that Elon Musk will buy us and we will be entertaining Barcelona within a couple of years time.

Seriously though, I don't see an empty stadium forcing his hand at all; he doesn't care. The big money that he wanted is in the league above. I don't bother with the merchandise though, my little way of not supporting his regime. Today I was offered last years 2nd away strip (the red one) for a bargain £35. Make it £10 and you might shift some, but that is taking the Michael.
Title: Re: Carlos Corberan
Post by: tambag on June 01, 2023, 11:28:28 AM
Looks like Leeds have bad owners just like us !

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticFC/status/1664216225109377025

Exclusive: Leeds United’s chairman Andrea Radrizzani offered to use the club’s Elland Road stadium as security for a £26m bank loan which his company, Aser, and a bidding partner, Gestio Capital, intended to use to complete a takeover of Sampdoria.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 01, 2023, 11:32:16 AM
If Elon Musk bought us he'd sack all the players off and run out to games as a one man rush back goalie team and if we didn't like it he'd be happy to lock us all out and play games with himself so to speak  ;D .
Title: Re: Re: Carlos Corberan
Post by: SmethDan on June 01, 2023, 11:38:11 AM
Looks like Leeds have bad owners just like us !

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticFC/status/1664216225109377025

Exclusive: Leeds United’s chairman Andrea Radrizzani offered to use the club’s Elland Road stadium as security for a £26m bank loan which his company, Aser, and a bidding partner, Gestio Capital, intended to use to complete a takeover of Sampdoria.

And people (who are right) think Lai is a letter removed from a word beginning with C  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sing on our own on June 01, 2023, 11:47:35 AM
I don't think the atmosphere at the Hawthorns was particularly toxic, this was probably helped by the home form. Not exactly electric but certainly not toxic during Carlos's tenure. Could you point to a home fixture since he's been here where the atmosphere was toxic please?
booing the team off at half time in most games and FT. Millwall the loudest and Sunderland. Groans every time the players pass back and try and keep possession. Sam Johnstone had his best spell during lockdown I think that speaks volumes. Maybe toxic was a bit strong, sh*te would have been better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 01, 2023, 11:54:48 AM
booing the team off at half time in most games and FT. Millwall the loudest and Sunderland. Groans every time the players pass back and try and keep possession. Sam Johnstone had his best spell during lockdown I think that speaks volumes. Maybe toxic was a bit strong, sh*te would have been better.

I think toxic was a gross over exaggeration as opposed to strong. I agree there have been games when I've seen more life at a wake though  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 01, 2023, 01:12:10 PM
and i thought it was all roses when i collected my  free beer & scarf
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on June 01, 2023, 01:13:42 PM
and i thought it was all roses when i collected my  free beer & scarf

Did he use his own money or the clubs to pay for that ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on June 01, 2023, 01:17:59 PM
All other threads are irrelevant until this bloke's intentions are sorted.
I think his actions have shown us what his intentions are!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ross on June 01, 2023, 10:07:06 PM
Action for Albion has been great in uniting the fans and giving us a voice

However, the fact remains, unless Lai gets an offer waayyyy above the current market value, he isn’t going anywhere.

Not a very attractive proposition with no parachute payment revenue, a £20m loan hanging over our head and a rudderless operation.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 01, 2023, 10:17:16 PM
We're Birmingham City/Carson Yeung mark 2.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 01, 2023, 11:32:48 PM
We're Birmingham City/Carson Yeung mark 2.

I broadly agree. The light at the end of the tunnel may turn out to be the complete financial collapse of the club and having to start again in the lower leagues. Just as much chance of that if not more, than promotion to the premiership any time soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on June 02, 2023, 07:55:28 AM
I think his actions have shown us what his intentions are!

OK, I meant his intentions regarding keeping or selling the club and if the latter at what time and/or price.
It's possible he will investigate ways of getting cash out of Group and sell when he has exhausted his options.  These options are narrowing because MSD has creditor precedence but he may feel that there are a few other ways to extract value.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 02, 2023, 08:14:28 AM
OK, I meant his intentions regarding keeping or selling the club and if the latter at what time and/or price.
It's possible he will investigate ways of getting cash out of Group and sell when he has exhausted his options.  These options are narrowing because MSD has creditor precedence but he may feel that there are a few other ways to extract value.

I don’t believe there’s now a single way of Lai taking money out of the club without being in direct breach of the MSD loan security.  I’d be very worried indeed if that protection wasn’t there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on June 02, 2023, 11:37:38 AM
I don’t believe there’s now a single way of Lai taking money out of the club without being in direct breach of the MSD loan security.  I’d be very worried indeed if that protection wasn’t there.
As long as thats correct I can't help but feel they are getting ready to sell , unless I'm missing something there's no other way to claw money back .
Don't know about the Ron issue and why he's gone but can see why Lai and co hung on just in case we made it up through the Play Offs .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on June 03, 2023, 01:26:51 PM
Lai is totally out of his depth and has no interest in us as a Club, as Supporters or as a Community and never had.
He bought a Football  Club because it was a status symbol at the time, 'the thing to do' and  to show off. No other motive.
The genius in all this is the guy who sold it to him, and stumbled, laughing all the way to the bank.
Now we are the ones stumbling and no ones laughing anymore.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBaggieMan on June 03, 2023, 02:13:18 PM
Lai is totally out of his depth and has no interest in us as a Club, as Supporters or as a Community and never had.
He bought a Football  Club because it was a status symbol at the time, 'the thing to do' and  to show off. No other motive.
The genius in all this is the guy who sold it to him, and stumbled, laughing all the way to the bank.
Now we are the ones stumbling and no ones laughing anymore.
The only thing Guochuan Lai has done for us was to buy us all a beer at our first home game. Since then, he’s done nowt!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 03, 2023, 03:35:20 PM
My understanding is that Lai and co would like to sell up and have been so inclined for a number of years. However their original asking price was unrealistic and unfortunately while they have adjusted their demands the decline in the value of the club has outstripped their adjustments, so the price they are asking is still probably unrealistic.

My view is that the club be sold but not until either it is on the brink of financial collapse or has indeed fallen into administration. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on June 03, 2023, 03:44:22 PM
Only my opinion but I think having taken the loan to enable us to tick over for another year he will hope under a competent head coach we have a chance of promotion where on he could recoup more of his initial outlay
If that fails to happen then god only knows what his master plan is
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on June 03, 2023, 05:08:49 PM
My understanding is that Lai and co would like to sell up and have been so inclined for a number of years. However their original asking price was unrealistic and unfortunately while they have adjusted their demands the decline in the value of the club has outstripped their adjustments, so the price they are asking is still probably unrealistic.

My view is that the club be sold but not until either it is on the brink of financial collapse or has indeed fallen into administration.

He wanted £200 mill to sell for a while. Imagine it’s now £100 mill which is optimistic. A lot of clubs this level get taken over for modest sums but have huge debts, as far as I know our only substantial debt is the MSD loan which I assume we still have part of sitting there for wages. I think we get taken over soon, they can’t afford for us to go into admin.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 03, 2023, 07:44:25 PM
He wanted £200 mill to sell for a while. Imagine it’s now £100 mill which is optimistic. A lot of clubs this level get taken over for modest sums but have huge debts, as far as I know our only substantial debt is the MSD loan which I assume we still have part of sitting there for wages. I think we get taken over soon, they can’t afford for us to go into admin.

The price they want is always seems a little bit beyond the current reality. If they want a £100m that might be achievable if we are promoted but no doubt they would stick a few extra £10m's on the price and put off potential buyers.

The danger is they keep hanging on for the upturn and taking on ill advised punts on keeping expensive players on the payroll to the point that they run out of money. Our ultimate decline will be by accident rather than design,

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 03, 2023, 08:43:43 PM
The price they want is always seems a little bit beyond the current reality. If they want a £100m that might be achievable if we are promoted but no doubt they would stick a few extra £10m's on the price and put off potential buyers.

The danger is they keep hanging on for the upturn and taking on ill advised punts on keeping expensive players on the payroll to the point that they run out of money. Our ultimate decline will be by accident rather than design,

He paid £200m when it was probably worth £150m.  He wanted to sell for £200m to get his money back when it was worth £100m, and he’ll now be asking for £100m now when it’s worth no more than £60m.

Not sure who’s advising him, but it all started by stupidly paying £50m over the odds.

Would he take £60m now?  I doubt he’s got much choice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 03, 2023, 09:04:22 PM
I think it’s one last tilt at promotion, he will know that CCs ppg last season would have got us close if not for the Bruce debacle.
The loan supports that last effort, if by Xmas we are not in the frame, he has to cut and run
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 04, 2023, 02:36:29 AM
The trouble each time the dice are thrown and they don't come up with promotion the club slips further away from promotion and probably is worth less to a potential buyer. Hull City were sold for £20m and Sheffield United had a £115m deal lined up (bearing in mind they were in the top 2 at the time and have been subsequently promoted) which has since collapsed.

Are we closer to Hull or Sheffield United right now? Even if a buyer is out there at whatever price Lai wants we aren't going to be sold overnight. Hull were in effect for sale for eight years. The Allams weren't the easiest people to do a deal with but it just shows how little appetite there is for Championship football clubs in general and overpriced ones in particular, the Allams started out looking for £100m. 

It is debatable as to whether the MSD loan has funded last season's throw of the dice or whether it will fund this season's promotion punt. Overseas and I disagree on this but we have to be getting close to the last throw of the dice if they aren't already in the air. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 04, 2023, 07:41:24 AM
The trouble each time the dice are thrown and they don't come up with promotion the club slips further away from promotion and probably is worth less to a potential buyer. Hull City were sold for £20m and Sheffield United had a £115m deal lined up (bearing in mind they were in the top 2 at the time and have been subsequently promoted) which has since collapsed.

Are we closer to Hull or Sheffield United right now? Even if a buyer is out there at whatever price Lai wants we aren't going to be sold overnight. Hull were in effect for sale for eight years. The Allams weren't the easiest people to do a deal with but it just shows how little appetite there is for Championship football clubs in general and overpriced ones in particular, the Allams started out looking for £100m. 

It is debatable as to whether the MSD loan has funded last season's throw of the dice or whether it will fund this season's promotion punt. Overseas and I disagree on this but we have to be getting close to the last throw of the dice if they aren't already in the air.

In order to properly compare asking prices a lot more analysts is required.  Hull City have a negative balance sheet and don’t own their stadium.  Sheffield United had £96m in debts in June 2021 and are late filing their June 2022 accounts.  We on the other hand have a positive balance sheet and only £20m of debt, most of which is covered by as yet unspent cash on the other side of the balance sheet.

Right now I’d say that we are truly worth somewhere around £60m. In another year’s time, without promotion, probably no more than £40m.  And if Lai holds out for an unrealistic price, thwarting any sale, then the risk of running out of cash and flirting with administration could see all of that shareholder value evaporate. 

Chances of promotion next season?  In a stronger division than this year and with a reduced budget, it cannot possibly be more than a 5-10% chance.  All commercial logic suggests that he needs to sell this summer at a realistic price.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on June 04, 2023, 08:43:57 AM
In order to properly compare asking prices a lot more analysts is required.  Hull City have a negative balance sheet and don’t own their stadium.  Sheffield United had £96m in debts in June 2021 and are late filing their June 2022 accounts.  We on the other hand have a positive balance sheet and only £20m of debt, most of which is covered by as yet unspent cash on the other side of the balance sheet.

Right now I’d say that we are truly worth somewhere around £60m. In another year’s time, without promotion, probably no more than £40m.  And if Lai holds out for an unrealistic price, thwarting any sale, then the risk of running out of cash and flirting with administration could see all of that shareholder value evaporate. 

Chances of promotion next season?  In a stronger division than this year and with a reduced budget, it cannot possibly be more than a 5-10% chance.  All commercial logic suggests that he needs to sell this summer at a realistic price.
You have quite rightly factored in the debts of the other clubs, should we not have a much greater chance than 10% if the Bruce not being there was factored in along with the fact that cornerman is now working with a team he knows well.?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 04, 2023, 08:53:30 AM
You have quite rightly factored in the debts of the other clubs, should we not have a much greater chance than 10% if the Bruce not being there was factored in along with the fact that cornerman is now working with a team he knows well.?

I wouldn’t say “much greater”.  Looks at who’s come down, and who’s still got parachute funding.  Chances of automatic promotion?  Two places out of 24.  Very slim.   Chances of reaching the play-offs?   Obviously somewhat higher.  Chances of being the winner of the play-offs?   One in 4 at that point.   I’d say 5-10% chance overall is about right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on June 04, 2023, 09:00:23 AM
I wouldn’t say “much greater”.  Looks at who’s come down, and who’s still got parachute funding.  Chances of automatic promotion?  Two places out of 24.  Very slim.   Chances of reaching the play-offs?   Obviously somewhat higher.  Chances of being the winner of the play-offs?   One in 4 at that point.   I’d say 5-10% chance overall is about right.

20-25% would be closer to the mark.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 04, 2023, 12:31:34 PM
20-25% would be closer to the mark.


Nowhere near that high.  The bookies odds will suggest exactly that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on June 04, 2023, 02:13:05 PM

Nowhere near that high.  The bookies odds will suggest exactly that.

Whilst I agree with you at 5-10%, skybet has us at 4/1 6th favourites which surprises me and suggests a much better percentage chance.

There are only 8 teams lower than 10/1 though which suggests find it tough to seperate many sides at the moment.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 04, 2023, 02:28:16 PM
3 PL sides coming down easily go into the top 6 on paper.

Then there is Boro, Cov, Sunderland and us all about the same.

Going to be a lot tougher next season than the last 2 for sure.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on June 05, 2023, 09:55:08 AM
3 PL sides coming down easily go into the top 6 on paper.

Then there is Boro, Cov, Sunderland and us all about the same.

Going to be a lot tougher next season than the last 2 for sure.

add in Norwich and Watford also.

Bristol City and Stoke have money behind them if used in the right way. same for Hull
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 05, 2023, 10:24:42 AM
add in Norwich and Watford also.

Bristol City and Stoke have money behind them if used in the right way. same for Hull

I don't rate them 2 to be fair but it's all about opinions of course.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 05, 2023, 10:44:43 AM
This thread is for discussing Guochuan Lai.

There is a thread already active for discussing next season.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 05, 2023, 07:08:42 PM
I still, no matter what, cannot wrap my head around the fact that Ken and Lai must surely realise they are diminishing their asset with every move they make.

I can accept that they know jack about football but thy must have some business acumen????

This whole thing beggars belief. I'm starting to think that The Vile funded Lai's takeover, it's the only logical explanation.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 05, 2023, 07:10:02 PM
I still, no matter what, cannot wrap my head around the fact that Ken and Lai must surely realise they are diminishing their asset with every move they make.

I can accept that they know jack about football but thy must have some business acumen????

This whole thing beggars belief. I'm starting to think that The Vile funded Lai's takeover, it's the only logical explanation.

I felt like this the first few years of his reign but i think you are giving him far too much credit.

He can't see past the end of his nose.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on June 05, 2023, 08:23:44 PM
I still, no matter what, cannot wrap my head around the fact that Ken and Lai must surely realise they are diminishing their asset with every move they make.

I can accept that they know jack about football but thy must have some business acumen????

This whole thing beggars belief. I'm starting to think that The Vile funded Lai's takeover, it's the only logical explanation.

You’d think at some point they would get lucky on an appointment but alas it’s been one shocking appointment after another & the list keeps getting worse as time goes on.  You’d think they would look at what the successful clubs are doing & try and create a similar structure, they don’t need a knowledge of football to put together a good structure at the club, Wolves owners have managed to do it (along with pumping millions into the club).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 05, 2023, 08:43:04 PM
You’d think at some point they would get lucky on an appointment but alas it’s been one shocking appointment after another & the list keeps getting worse as time goes on.  You’d think they would look at what the successful clubs are doing & try and create a similar structure, they don’t need a knowledge of football to put together a good structure at the club, Wolves owners have managed to do it (along with pumping millions into the club).

Thing is the Wolves owners had/have a level of interest in their asset. Lai never has.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 05, 2023, 11:19:23 PM
Thing is the Wolves owners had/have a level of interest in their asset. Lai never has.

Wolves also had a chap with half of the Portuguese league on his books and he was seemingly very interested in relocating quite a few of them to Wolverhampton.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 06, 2023, 07:40:22 AM
Wolves also had a chap with half of the Portuguese league on his books and he was seemingly very interested in relocating quite a few of them to Wolverhampton.

Also true. Still doing ok without him
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on June 06, 2023, 09:24:39 AM
What happened to that Striker we signed from china. Wasnt Lai meant to pay the money back for this if it didnt come off? I’m sure this signing was done under a cloud.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 06, 2023, 09:49:31 AM
The only thing I know for sure about this geezer is his given name doesn't need translating into English.

Right now I'd actually take administration if it meant getting him out of our club. He's killed us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 06, 2023, 10:15:49 AM
What happened to that Striker we signed from china. Wasnt Lai meant to pay the money back for this if it didnt come off? I’m sure this signing was done under a cloud.

The club never laid out any money on that player.  It was funded directly by Lai apparently.   Obviously he must have still had some money left at that time!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 06, 2023, 10:24:05 AM
For any forum members who have a knowledge of China.

How much of an influence would the Chinese authorities have on Lai's abilities to finance WBAFC, including taking out & paying back loans?

Genuine question, because I don't know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: sing on our own on June 06, 2023, 11:00:08 AM
The club never laid out any money on that player.  It was funded directly by Lai apparently.   Obviously he must have still had some money left at that time!
That was the official line at the time but it’s been revealed recently that the club did pay the fee not Lai personally. 7 million for someone who wouldn’t get in Quarry Bank Socials team.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on June 06, 2023, 11:16:20 AM
Do we still own this player then?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 06, 2023, 11:16:45 AM
That was the official line at the time but it’s been revealed recently that the club did pay the fee not Lai personally. 7 million for someone who wouldn’t get in Quarry Bank Socials team.

Where was that revealed please? I don’t recall seeing it
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 06, 2023, 11:20:12 AM
For any forum members who have a knowledge of China.

How much of an influence would the Chinese authorities have on Lai's abilities to finance WBAFC, including taking out & paying back loans?

Genuine question, because I don't know.

None, because Lai is neither the owner or the borrower.  Yunyai with its 1000+ investors is the owner, and Wisdom Smart is the borrower.  Wisdom Smart is a HK company, not a Chinese company, and Lai is not a director or shareholder of Wisdom Smart, or of the Chinese company which owns 49% of it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 06, 2023, 11:21:20 AM
Do we still own this player then?

No.  And he never met the UK’s work permit requirements.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 06, 2023, 11:25:33 AM
Where was that revealed please? I don’t recall seeing it

I don’t remember that either, I thought the player was a vanity project wholly funded by Lai which is why we were not bothered
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 06, 2023, 11:26:32 AM
I don’t remember that either, I thought the player was a vanity project wholly funded by Lai which is why we were not bothered

That’s certainly my understanding too.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 06, 2023, 11:34:29 AM
I don’t remember that either, I thought the player was a vanity project wholly funded by Lai which is why we were not bothered

I think I can remember Lepkowski querying the claim that Lai had provided the funds for the player personally.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on June 06, 2023, 12:14:24 PM
For any forum members who have a knowledge of China.

How much of an influence would the Chinese authorities have on Lai's abilities to finance WBAFC, including taking out & paying back loans?

Genuine question, because I don't know.

Have conducted a web search, I couldn't find anything to contradict that the restrictions on overseas spending imposed by the CCP regarding Soccer investment are still in force.

Football or Soccer as the rest of the world has it, has been a major embarrassment for President Xi.  Following the haughty predictions for the national team when he got the ball (ahem) rolling in 2015, has come the flop that is always possible with such hubris.  China FC is no further up the world rankings than when he made hi boasts back in 2015.

You can understand why he doesn't want to hear anyone or any media outlets talking about that particular subject.

Xi's method of handling dissenters or anyone who fails or upsets him is to employ his special anti-graft  regulators to attaint them for corruption.  So the president of the national soccer federation, a national coach and an education ministry official who over-promised on soccer in schools are among those who have been arrested.

Xi doesn't want to hear about football so it's not surprising that Mr Guochuan is keeping his head down on that front especially as the real estate boom and bust is another potential embarassment. 

In 2010 there were 20 European clubs owned by Chinese investors.  In 2020 there were 10.

Selling at a big loss would be a humiliation for Lai Guochuan.
 Maybe a bigger humiliation would be just the threat of an indictment against him in the UK. 
Maybe a Gulf state will be tempted.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 06, 2023, 12:17:29 PM
Have conducted a web search, I couldn't find anything to contradict that the restrictions on overseas spending imposed by the CCP regarding Soccer investment are still in force.

Football or Soccer as the rest of the world has it, has been a major embarrassment for President Xi.  Following the haughty predictions for the national team when he got the ball (ahem) rolling in 2015, has come the flop that is always possible with such hubris.  China FC is no further up the world rankings than when he made hi boasts back in 2015.

You can understand why he doesn't want to hear anyone or any media outlets talking about that particular subject.

Xi's method of handling dissenters or anyone who fails or upsets him is to employ his special anti-graft  regulators to attaint them for corruption.  So the president of the national soccer federation, a national coach and an education ministry official who over-promised on soccer in schools are among those who have been arrested.

Xi doesn't want to hear about football so it's not surprising that Mr Guochuan is keeping his head down on that front especially as the real estate boom and bust is another potential embarassment. 

In 2010 there were 20 European clubs owned by Chinese investors.  In 2020 there were 10.

Selling at a big loss would be a humiliation for Lai Guochuan.
 Maybe a bigger humiliation would be just the threat of an indictment against him in the UK. 
Maybe a Gulf state will be tempted.

What would any “indictment” be for?  There’s no evidence of any criminal activity as far as I am aware, just breach of fiduciary by Ken, a UK resident, which is a civil matter, not criminal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on June 06, 2023, 12:27:16 PM
I agree I was racking my brains for a word here.  How about Embezzlement?

"Embezzlement is a type of financial fraud where someone takes money or assets that were entrusted to them and uses them for a different purpose than for what they were intended."

It was a long post.  Can't get it all right.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 06, 2023, 12:31:06 PM
Embezzlement?

"Embezzlement is a type of financial fraud where someone takes money or assets that were entrusted to them and uses them for a different purpose than for what they were intended."

What has “he” taken?  The director of Group made a loan to a company. The director sanctioned that loan (breach of fiduciary duty by him), not Lai.  The loan could not be made by anybody other than the board of Group - which is Ken alone.

I think you need to be very careful indeed suggesting “embezzlement”. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on June 06, 2023, 12:38:15 PM
I don’t remember that either, I thought the player was a vanity project wholly funded by Lai which is why we were not bothered
I seem to recall this Chinese player being lent to a German club, Werder Bremen I think, but he was out the door there quicker than Ollie Burke.  Maybe Lai thought a high profile Chinese player in Europe was good for his business. Fair to say he wasn't high profile though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on June 06, 2023, 12:46:27 PM
I agree I was racking my brains for a word here.  How about Embezzlement?

"Embezzlement is a type of financial fraud where someone takes money or assets that were entrusted to them and uses them for a different purpose than for what they were intended."

It was a long post.  Can't get it all right.

What has “he” taken?  The director of Group made a loan to a company. The director sanctioned that loan (breach of fiduciary duty by him), not Lai.  The loan could not be made by anybody other than the board of Group - which is Ken alone.

I think you need to be very careful indeed suggesting “embezzlement”.

I didn't suggest.  I asked.  You answered - thanks.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: smethwickw on June 06, 2023, 01:01:15 PM
I seem to recall this Chinese player being lent to a German club, Werder Bremen I think, but he was out the door there quicker than Ollie Burke.  Maybe Lai thought a high profile Chinese player in Europe was good for his business. Fair to say he wasn't high profile though.

Zhang Yuning. Looks like the kind of goalscorer we need at the moment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Yuning_(footballer,_born_1997)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 06, 2023, 01:15:03 PM
I agree I was racking my brains for a word here.  How about Embezzlement?

"Embezzlement is a type of financial fraud where someone takes money or assets that were entrusted to them and uses them for a different purpose than for what they were intended."

It was a long post.  Can't get it all right.

The problem is that Lai has removed money from the club ‘legally’, insofar that it has been disclosed, we all know about it, and he has promised to pay it back. The fact that he has not does not put it in the criminal arena. At best he can be considered for some civil offence under company law for failing to pay it back. That is likely to involve a financial penalty and not much else.
That for me is why the Pereira funds question is in the S4A document. If it can subsequently be proven that money has gone missing in some shady deal then he has problems.

At the bottom of all this I just hope that we are all square with HMRC
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 06, 2023, 03:07:24 PM
The club never laid out any money on that player.  It was funded directly by Lai apparently.   Obviously he must have still had some money left at that time!

I always thought that was where the 'Palm Training Ground' sponsorship money went. Not ITK at all, just seemed the most likely way of injecting short term cash.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ronnie Allen on June 06, 2023, 05:58:09 PM
For any forum members who have a knowledge of China.

How much of an influence would the Chinese authorities have on Lai's abilities to finance WBAFC, including taking out & paying back loans?

Genuine question, because I don't know.

I don’t have a knowledge of China, but I’m interested in what’s happening with Lai and co. I found this which might be interesting and which largely confirms what I thought was happening.
https://urbanpitch.com/why-chinese-money-is-drying-up-in-the-british-game/ One aspect of what’s happening I hadn’t factored in was that Chinese investors were using the acquisition of European football clubs as a way of laundering money out of China. You buy a club, wait a few years, then sell it, even at a loss, and the money finds its way into a no questions asked bank somewhere on the planet and hey presto there’s your nest egg in case China becomes a bit too restrictive.

What’s clear is that there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that we’ll see any money coming into the club from the owners. They’re acting like textbook private equity owners trying to gouge as much money out of the club as they can. The £20m loan just reinforces that opinion. I’m not optimistic for the near and medium term.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 06, 2023, 06:09:59 PM
Joe Chapman
@ChapmanJ92
🚨 Breaking: S4A confirm that Ken has not answered any questions before the set deadline. They are now looking to take ‘all legal and regulatory action necessary to protect the future of the club and prevent further use of the club’s money’. #wba
 
Statement - live soon - adds that S4A have been ‘misled’ on three occasions previously re the club’s money. Also disappointed by the lack of intervention from EFL and they support the idea of a football regulator. They have cast doubt over #wba ability to replace Ron Gourlay.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on June 06, 2023, 06:29:04 PM
The start of what I am sure is going to be a lengthy legal process, but it’s a start & I take my hat off to those at S4A as it’s realistically about the only way we’l get rid of Lai without the club going bust.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on June 06, 2023, 07:03:27 PM
The club is a festering wound right now, going more rotten by the day. We need to amputate Lai from the club ASAP
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 06, 2023, 07:06:23 PM
Have conducted a web search, I couldn't find anything to contradict that the restrictions on overseas spending imposed by the CCP regarding Soccer investment are still in force.

Football or Soccer as the rest of the world has it, has been a major embarrassment for President Xi.  Following the haughty predictions for the national team when he got the ball (ahem) rolling in 2015, has come the flop that is always possible with such hubris.  China FC is no further up the world rankings than when he made hi boasts back in 2015.

You can understand why he doesn't want to hear anyone or any media outlets talking about that particular subject.

Xi's method of handling dissenters or anyone who fails or upsets him is to employ his special anti-graft  regulators to attaint them for corruption.  So the president of the national soccer federation, a national coach and an education ministry official who over-promised on soccer in schools are among those who have been arrested.

Xi doesn't want to hear about football so it's not surprising that Mr Guochuan is keeping his head down on that front especially as the real estate boom and bust is another potential embarassment. 

In 2010 there were 20 European clubs owned by Chinese investors.  In 2020 there were 10.

Selling at a big loss would be a humiliation for Lai Guochuan.
 Maybe a bigger humiliation would be just the threat of an indictment against him in the UK. 
Maybe a Gulf state will be tempted.

Maybe a Gulf state will be tempted.  With our luck we would get the Yemen
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on June 06, 2023, 07:34:05 PM
I think these couple of videos give a decent history of how things have gone with China using football as a soft-power tool

https://youtu.be/eZmzi4VxV98

https://youtu.be/-Rtgw2wiAMo
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 10, 2023, 03:31:11 PM
https://www.birminghamworld.uk/sport/football/west-brom/top-17-famous-celebrity-west-brom-fans-net-worth-order-4176351?page=5

If they all put 10% of their net worth in, they could buy the club then get their return once we are back on top..... even 5% might do it.....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on June 11, 2023, 07:07:33 AM
https://www.birminghamworld.uk/sport/football/west-brom/top-17-famous-celebrity-west-brom-fans-net-worth-order-4176351?page=5

If they all put 10% of their net worth in, they could buy the club then get their return once we are back on top..... even 5% might do it.....
It’s very easy to tell others how to spend their money isn’t it ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 11, 2023, 08:12:08 AM
It’s very easy to tell others how to spend their money isn’t it ?

I wasn't being entirely serious.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 11, 2023, 08:26:20 AM
I wasn't being entirely serious.

These are serious times ex, how dare you come on here and make humorous comments 😂
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 11, 2023, 02:07:47 PM
These are serious times ex, how dare you come on here and make humorous comments 😂

Sorry skyclad, I hang my head in shame. Titter ye not!!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 15, 2023, 05:27:18 PM
The Athletic reporting that a consortium are in talks to buy a small percentage of the club. Could possibly lead to full takeover further down the line

"A group that includes Egyptian businessman Mohamed Elkashashy and Manchester-based sports lawyer Chris Farnell are in talks to buy a minority stake in West Bromwich Albion that could eventually lead to a full takeover.

The group has been speaking to the beleaguered Championship club for several months and, while no agreement has been reached yet, the talks are advanced."
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on June 15, 2023, 05:46:41 PM
Just read up a little on those 2 individuals. No thank you from me, they seem no good to me
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on June 15, 2023, 05:47:25 PM
Some bad responses about it including from Kieran Maguire on twitter, a gif of the grim reaper.

First it giveth…
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on June 15, 2023, 05:51:29 PM
The Athletic reporting that a consortium are in talks to buy a small percentage of the club. Could possibly lead to full takeover further down the line

"A group that includes Egyptian businessman Mohamed Elkashashy and Manchester-based sports lawyer Chris Farnell are in talks to buy a minority stake in West Bromwich Albion that could eventually lead to a full takeover.

The group has been speaking to the beleaguered Championship club for several months and, while no agreement has been reached yet, the talks are advanced."
Previously tried to buy Charlton and Burnley I believe, part of a consortium
They don’t appear to be mega wealthy themselves but can’t be worse than Lai and his cronies surely
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 15, 2023, 05:55:21 PM
Previously tried to buy Charlton and Burnley I believe, part of a consortium
They don’t appear to be mega wealthy themselves but can’t be worse than Lai and his cronies surely

The rest of the article says they tried to get Burnley and Lai spoke to them in 2020

Article states club valued at around 75m currently
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: royhan on June 15, 2023, 06:05:26 PM
This doesn’t fill me with any hope. If they are serious investors why don’t they buy the club outright. Are they looking to make a quick buck from a future sale?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 15, 2023, 06:27:46 PM
Previously tried to buy Charlton and Burnley I believe, part of a consortium
They don’t appear to be mega wealthy themselves but can’t be worse than Lai and his cronies surely

Out of the wok and into the fire, no ta. I'd rather Doug Ellis took us over from the grave and bring Christian Purslow with him as CEO to be honest.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on June 15, 2023, 06:35:36 PM
Who actually gets a say over whether this pair are suitable? Is it just Lai?  It would be re-assuring if say, the minority shareholders had some clout. What are the ground rules? Someone turns up with a wadge of money and says I'd like some shares? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on June 15, 2023, 06:44:04 PM
Certain stake % would make it mandatory for them to make a full ownership offer.
Blues have been purchased in a similar way and I believe that’s how the villa owners may have come in when the Dr was in charge.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jack Thrust on June 15, 2023, 07:13:31 PM
I'd urge everyone to have a read of this:

https://thecharltondossier.com/chris-farnell/

This isn't somebody I want associated with the club, the only relief comes from the fact I doubt very much they would pass the owners & directors test
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2023, 07:18:40 PM
They sound dodgy as hell according to the Express and Star article, the Farnell guy was banned from being a football director at Charlton, and has been involved in 2 failed takeovers already which is never a good sign.

Seems like a pair of chancers who sniff blood in the water here, certainly they don't seem to have much money, nor competence.  Also seems like the situation could very easily get worse with them, not better.

Hopefully it falls through, don't want them associated with the club in anyway. We're a basket case as it is without letting more into the fold. You'd think at some point we're due an owner who actually invests in the club, there can't be too many clubs our profile who've had so little investment.

I'd urge everyone to have a read of this:

https://thecharltondossier.com/chris-farnell/

This isn't somebody I want associated with the club, the only relief comes from the fact I doubt very much they would pass the owners & directors test

So basically he's a snake people who will struggle to pass the fit and owners person test use to try and smooth things over  (and think, given the amount of bad owners who've made it through that test how bad you need to be to fail it!). Accordign to wiki he's also had court cases against him for hitting his wife, and perjury, seems a delightful man....

Judging by the fact he seemingly wrote his wiki, he's probably reading these comments.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on June 15, 2023, 07:27:08 PM
I'd urge everyone to have a read of this:

https://thecharltondossier.com/chris-farnell/

This isn't somebody I want associated with the club, the only relief comes from the fact I doubt very much they would pass the owners & directors test

No idea about the Egyptian guy but that Farnell chap sounds like an absolute snake.

I think the phrase "better the devil you know" was coined for this exact kind of situation
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on June 15, 2023, 07:34:06 PM
No idea about the Egyptian guy but that Farnell chap sounds like an absolute snake.

I think the phrase "better the devil you know" was coined for this exact kind of situation

The problem is when you have a club as badly ran as ours, all the snakes and chancers ears perk up and you can easily end up in a death spiral. We will need to be very hopeful to get a decent owner after Lai, whatever the situation is, but I certainly wouldn't expect it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 15, 2023, 08:00:47 PM
The problem is when you have a club as badly ran as ours, all the snakes and chancers ears perk up and you can easily end up in a death spiral. We will need to be very hopeful to get a decent owner after Lai, whatever the situation is, but I certainly wouldn't expect it.

Yes, I remember this happened before Pompey went bust, they had all sorts of people coming out the woodwork to buy them. It's a sad state of affairs.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 15, 2023, 08:26:53 PM
Carpet baggers and ne'r do wells. A pox on them all.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on June 15, 2023, 09:31:14 PM
Is there no nice people with money? They all seem like a right bunch of c u next Tuesday's.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 15, 2023, 10:21:54 PM
Certain stake % would make it mandatory for them to make a full ownership offer.
Blues have been purchased in a similar way and I believe that’s how the villa owners may have come in when the Dr was in charge.

I don’t think that’s right. We are not a public company
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Sted1990 on June 15, 2023, 10:23:38 PM
I don’t think that’s right. We are not a public company

Oh ok! Even stranger that they want a small stake then
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on June 15, 2023, 10:49:26 PM
Oh ok! Even stranger that they want a small stake then
Possibly because they think Lai will renege on the loan and the American loan company will sell on the cheap to recover the debt !?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jack Thrust on June 15, 2023, 10:50:04 PM
Is there no nice people with money? They all seem like a right bunch of c u next Tuesday's.

If it makes you feel any better this pair don't have any money  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zac on June 15, 2023, 11:38:50 PM
The only slight positive i am taking out of all of this is that at least it looks like he is open to selling us, which is something i thought he wouldn't be doing any time soon. Having read up on the two involved in this minority takeover, i hope we don't touch their "money" but i would think if someone was serious about buying any percentage of a football club i don't think they would necessarily leak the information.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on June 16, 2023, 12:41:15 AM
No idea about the Egyptian guy but that Farnell chap sounds like an absolute snake.

I think the phrase "better the devil you know" was coined for this exact kind of situation

It shocking how the parasitic "middlemen" have created an industry to find clubs to seek and destroy for a quick profit.

I really hope a football regulator has some teeth to ban these charlatans for life.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 16, 2023, 02:33:33 AM
Slow to this but as soon as I saw Farnell's name alarm bells went off. He is an absolute bottom feeder. We are in desperate straits but this is bad. If anything that could be worse than Lai this is it.

These clowns don't have a pot to urine in are trying to get a minority stake on the cheap in the hope we get a promotion and they can leverage their stake for a fast buck.

No the worst of all possible worlds.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on June 16, 2023, 07:51:16 AM
Lai will care even less than JP about who he sells to, as long as he recoups money against his failed investment, without having to give away too big a %
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on June 16, 2023, 08:22:15 AM
Sorry if this has already been asked if Farnell and this Egyptian chap were to buy a minority stake would they still have to go through the fit & proper test? By the looks of it Farnell failed the fit & proper test at Charlton so I can’t imagine much would have changed especially with them tightening up the rules, im just wondering if they have seen a way of skirting round the fit & proper test by purchasing a minority share in the club.

After what I’ve read about Farnell he should be no-where near football, the bloke is a complete crook. The only thing I’m hoping as it’s out in the press with names it’s not a credible bid. Generally transactions of football clubs are done under nda’s so serious bids aren’t found out until it’s all signed & sealed.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Nickwba1 on June 16, 2023, 08:28:47 AM
Sorry if this has already been asked if Farnell and this Egyptian chap were to buy a minority stake would they still have to go through the fit & proper test? By the looks of it Farnell failed the fit & proper test at Charlton so I can’t imagine much would have changed especially with them tightening up the rules, im just wondering if they have seen a way of skirting round the fit & proper test by purchasing a minority share in the club.

After what I’ve read about Farnell he should be no-where near football, the bloke is a complete crook. The only thing I’m hoping as it’s out in the press with names it’s not a credible bid. Generally transactions of football clubs are done under nda’s so serious bids aren’t found out until it’s all signed & sealed.

My assumption would be no they wouldn't as it's only a minority share.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 16, 2023, 08:55:50 AM
The EFl owners and directors test.

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/efl-regulations/appendix-3-owners-and-directors-test/

If anybody from the consortium was a director they would be subject to the test. I can't imagine that if they would make a significant investment without being able to nominate at least one director.

Equally they will be subject to money laundering checks if the stake is significant even if it is not a controlling one.

The rules are tougher than they used to be but it doesn't mean that the investors have noble intentions.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Bleeding Gums Murphy on June 16, 2023, 11:40:06 AM
Farnell is not someone you want near a football club.

 https://thecharltondossier.com/chris-farnell/ (https://thecharltondossier.com/chris-farnell/)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 16, 2023, 12:26:01 PM
Lai will care even less than JP about who he sells to, as long as he recoups money against his failed investment, without having to give away too big a %

Not possible as JP didn't give a dam about the club when it was sold, his only interest was to maximise his return. Lai will be the same.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 16, 2023, 12:37:57 PM
Not possible as JP didn't give a dam about the club when it was sold, his only interest was to maximise his return. Lai will be the same.
Ebenezer didn’t invest in club got club to buy his shares for him and then didn’t he dilute shares?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 16, 2023, 01:13:06 PM
Ebenezer didn’t invest in club got club to buy his shares for him and then didn’t he dilute shares?

He certainly never invested funds into the club.  His money (or the money he borrowed) got paid to vendor shareholders and he then sold to Yunyai.  In reality he never had any money to invest into the club as his wealth was merely paper wealth until the sale to Yunyai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 16, 2023, 02:21:06 PM
Anyone know if this Farnell character is the same English based lawyer that was involved in American consortium that bid for club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on June 16, 2023, 02:45:21 PM
Anyone know if this Farnell character is the same English based lawyer that was involved in American consortium that bid for club?

I didn't know but this guy has been involved in more than one failed attempt at purchasing a football club, big Alarm bells for me - could be worse than Lai ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 16, 2023, 02:50:53 PM
I didn't know but this guy has been involved in more than one failed attempt at purchasing a football club, big Alarm bells for me - could be worse than Lai ?

Farnell is not actually a lawyer.  Calls himself one but isn’t one. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 16, 2023, 03:29:35 PM
A number of comentators are saying we're "up for sale", the buying combination identified by the Athletic doesn't look very attractive.

On the other hand, relationships beteween the Chinese & Arab nations are really good at the moment, so it wouldn't be surprising if new investment came from the Arab world.

There's a rumour that Periera is coming back, I wonder if there's a connection?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on June 16, 2023, 03:42:17 PM
I didn't know but this guy has been involved in more than one failed attempt at purchasing a football club, big Alarm bells for me - could be worse than Lai ?

How?

Its a serious question. We are heading for administration unless things turn around quite dramatically. How much worse can any other owner be?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on June 16, 2023, 04:00:50 PM
A number of comentators are saying we're "up for sale", the buying combination identified by the Athletic doesn't look very attractive.

On the other hand, relationships beteween the Chinese & Arab nations are really good at the moment, so it wouldn't be surprising if new investment came from the Arab world.

There's a rumour that Periera is coming back, I wonder if there's a connection?

We can only dream  ;D
I still think Lai will milk us a bit more before (if) he sells us and expect at least 1-2 more seasons of selling our best players before he calls it quits.

I'm also very skeptical of 'commentators'. Often they parrot each other and are more confident than they should be. I would love some wealthy Arabs at B71 though!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on June 16, 2023, 04:09:25 PM
We can only dream  ;D
I still think Lai will milk us a bit more before (if) he sells us and expect at least 1-2 more seasons of selling our best players before he calls it quits.

I'm also very skeptical of 'commentators'. Often they parrot each other and are more confident than they should be. I would love some wealthy Arabs at B71 though!

Wouldn't we all? It's a sad state of affairs, not right, not fair BUT it's the modern world.

Look at Vile. Practically at administration only around 5 years ago. Get taken over by money men, look at them now. Gone are 27,000 gates, loads of money spent and they need a stadium size bigger than when they were top flight runners up in the early 90's.

That won't happen to us. Some clubs just luck out constantly. We never, ever do.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 16, 2023, 04:11:40 PM
Ebenezer didn’t invest in club got club to buy his shares for him and then didn’t he dilute shares?

There is no evidence to confirm that he used club funds to buy shares, but it is a popular theory.
When he was chairman he did a ‘share consolidation scheme’ which basically meant that for every 10 shares you had, you would have one ‘new’ share. Most shareholders had 1 or 2 so were virtually forced to sell them back to the club, or business boy in particular. He then acquired many shares to get him to 88% and the rest is history. Basically he forced genuine Albion fans to sell up for his own greed. He then held the next AGM in London and would not take any questions about the share consolidation scheme. The scheme was very divisive but apparently legal.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on June 16, 2023, 04:14:11 PM
How?

Its a serious question. We are heading for administration unless things turn around quite dramatically. How much worse can any other owner be?

The guy was deemed not fit to run a football club and was banned (he won back that status on appeal).  Remember EFL & EPL neither think Lai is a problem !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on June 16, 2023, 04:20:27 PM
Farnell is not actually a lawyer.  Calls himself one but isn’t one.

He is a Solicitor registered by the SRA.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on June 16, 2023, 04:25:04 PM
The guy was deemed not fit to run a football club and was banned (he won back that status on appeal).  Remember EFL & EPL neither think Lai is a problem !

Says more about the EFL and EPL. To be fair to them they can only react to previous events and judge within the law. Lai has done nothing illegal but that doesn't make it right ethically or morally.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on June 16, 2023, 04:35:06 PM
Says more about the EFL and EPL. To be fair to them they can only react to previous events and judge within the law. Lai has done nothing illegal but that doesn't make it right ethically or morally.

Granted.  I want Lai gone but we have to get the right owners and not one that could be even worse - like spending money they don't have and ending up like Wigan in less than two years, their owners couldn't pay the wages !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on June 16, 2023, 04:40:27 PM
Granted.  I want Lai gone but we have to get the right owners and not one that could be even worse - like spending money they don't have and ending up like Wigan in less than two years, their owners couldn't pay the wages !

Do you have an email address for Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos? Imagine even one of those three buying us, let alone a consortium.

Find their emails and I will genuinely beg!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on June 16, 2023, 04:41:34 PM
Do you have an email address for Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos? Imagine even one of those three buying us, let alone a consortium.

Find their emails and I will genuinely beg!

Musk would end up firing everyone !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on June 16, 2023, 04:48:42 PM
Musk would end up firing everyone !

He can do what he likes as long as he drags this club to where 140 years of history dictates it should be.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 16, 2023, 04:49:14 PM
Musk would end up firing everyone !

If twitter's anything to go by, I wouldn't want Musk anywhere near WBA.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Atomic on June 16, 2023, 05:29:17 PM
If twitter's anything to go by, I wouldn't want Musk anywhere near WBA.

So who exactly do we want?

A church going virgin, with no criminal record, just a love for West Bromwich Albion with £100 billion in the bank and willing to throw it all at us.

We all want that but we ain't that lucky!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on June 16, 2023, 05:45:36 PM
The guy was deemed not fit to run a football club and was banned (he won back that status on appeal).  Remember EFL & EPL neither think Lai is a problem !
Concerning. You'd hope the EFL/FA check them out, given the tightening in rules, and even if they get a thumbs up, it would be good to hear from the EFL/FA which terms of reference they specifically apply, so that they don't just get cleared with a one liner.
Also concerning, if its indeed only Lai who gets a say.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 16, 2023, 06:05:44 PM
I stand corrected. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 16, 2023, 06:10:17 PM
There is no evidence to confirm that he used club funds to buy shares, but it is a popular theory.
When he was chairman he did a ‘share consolidation scheme’ which basically meant that for every 10 shares you had, you would have one ‘new’ share. Most shareholders had 1 or 2 so were virtually forced to sell them back to the club, or business boy in particular. He then acquired many shares to get him to 88% and the rest is history. Basically he forced genuine Albion fans to sell up for his own greed. He then held the next AGM in London and would not take any questions about the share consolidation scheme. The scheme was very divisive but apparently legal.
could be wrong but remember club stumping up over £3 million so that he could get over threshold to be majority shareholder.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 16, 2023, 06:11:28 PM
So who exactly do we want?

A church going virgin, with no criminal record, just a love for West Bromwich Albion with £100 billion in the bank and willing to throw it all at us.

We all want that but we ain't that lucky!
that would do for me  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on June 16, 2023, 08:26:35 PM
So who exactly do we want?

A church going virgin, with no criminal record, just a love for West Bromwich Albion with £100 billion in the bank and willing to throw it all at us.

We all want that but we ain't that lucky!
You've met my wife then?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on June 16, 2023, 08:32:52 PM
could be wrong but remember club stumping up over £3 million so that he could get over threshold to be majority shareholder.

The 10:1 share consolidation was in 2008 and took JP's shareholding to approx 60%.

 JP had increased his shareholding to 67% by 2014.

The £3.7m loan from the club to JP was in September 2014 -  a few weeks after he had bought shares from individual shareholders at £3k a share in July 2014, thereby increasing his shareholding to 77.3% and over the vital 75% threshold.

What did he need the £3.7m for? No explanation has been offered.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 16, 2023, 09:24:04 PM
The 10:1 share consolidation was in 2008 and took JP's shareholding to approx 60%.

 JP had increased his shareholding to 67% by 2014.

The £3.7m loan from the club to JP was in September 2014 -  a few weeks after he had bought shares from individual shareholders at £3k a share in July 2014, thereby increasing his shareholding to 77.3% and over the vital 75% threshold.

What did he need the £3.7m for? No explanation has been offered.

Perhaps he had initially borrowed from £3.7m short-term from a third party and needed to replace that borrowing?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on June 16, 2023, 09:43:36 PM
If twitter's anything to go by, I wouldn't want Musk anywhere near WBA.
DIDNT want PEACE
Don’t want Lai
Don’t want Farrell
Don’t want MUSK

I actually don’t think that Christ himself would be accepted by some of our fans…why don’t they all have a whip around and put their own cash up?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on June 16, 2023, 10:25:15 PM
Perhaps he had initially borrowed from £3.7m short-term from a third party and needed to replace that borrowing?

£2,100,000 was borrowed by Holdings in the accounts up to 30/06/14. The accounts for 30/06/15 show that this had been repaid and replaced by owing £3,716,000 to group undertakings (i.e. club).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 16, 2023, 10:41:19 PM
DIDNT want PEACE
Don’t want Lai
Don’t want Farrell
Don’t want MUSK

I actually don’t think that Christ himself would be accepted by some of our fans…why don’t they all have a whip around and put their own cash up?

Don't want Musk, he's devastated twitter which was a decent social media platform befor he got involved
Don't want Farrell, has a poor track record
Gave Lai a chance, but his timing was wrong
Have Peace back in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on June 16, 2023, 11:04:14 PM
Don't want Musk, he's devastated twitter which was a decent social media platform befor he got involved
Don't want Farrell, has a poor track record
Gave Lai a chance, but his timing was wrong
Have Peace back in a heartbeat.

I would like to go on record and thank you personally for giving a far politer reply than the one I was thinking of which may have led to an instant lifetime ban

 Provisos; Farrell is a kocc owmble and JP can feel free to play with his Mrs so long as he comes nowhere near us again moving forward given what he left us with.

Cheers again  8) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 17, 2023, 02:13:22 AM
What do I want from an owner?

1. Sustained interest.
2. Competence
3. Investment

Lai falls on all 3. It is largely through his incompetence and disinvestment that 3 is now on the list.

Peace passes on 1 and was ruthlessly competent to a point which largely negated the need for 3. The point where he started being soley focused on his own profitable exit where the long term planning was sacrificed for short-term gain. He is in that sense the Godfather of our current predicament.

Musk or any other member of the bored billionaire class.
Quite likely to fail on 1 and possibly 2 but pass on 3. Yet even here quite likely to saddle the club with lots of expensive
 signings an FFP problem and an almighty crash when they get bored and walk away.

Farnell and cronies? No nothing to recommend them.

This might seem like the goldilocks syndrome but there are very few good owners and lots of terrible ones.

We don’t get to choose.






Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on June 17, 2023, 09:48:56 AM
Where Peace excelled was in the people he put in place to run the club and  the football side.
He had no long term interest only making millions and hit lucky with an idiot who would pay way over the top.
Where Lia failed miserably is exactly the opposite to Peace, he employed absolute idiots to run the club and sacked them continuously, costing the club millions with no plan or structure in place whatsoever.
When you look at the money that has been spent in his time at the club it’s mind blowing.
We have desperately needed a person to come in and organise us as a club such as Brighton or Brentford have done.
That’s the kind of owner I want.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on June 17, 2023, 10:01:10 AM
Where Peace excelled was in the people he put in place to run the club and  the football side.
He had no long term interest only making millions and hit lucky with an idiot who would pay way over the top.
Where Lia failed miserably is exactly the opposite to Peace, he employed absolute idiots to run the club and sacked them continuously, costing the club millions with no plan or structure in place whatsoever.
When you look at the money that has been spent in his time at the club it’s mind blowing.
We have desperately needed a person to come in and organise us as a club such as Brighton or Brentford have done.
That’s the kind of owner I want.


If Lai had been the character that was sold to us (a Chinese billionaire with an interest in football) then his mistakes wouldn't have been so critical.

IMO, from now on, we're always going to get dubious owners, most of which will make Peace look like a saint.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 17, 2023, 10:33:09 AM

If Lai had been the character that was sold to us (a Chinese billionaire with an interest in football) then his mistakes wouldn't have been so critical.

IMO, from now on, we're always going to get dubious owners, most of which will make Peace look like a saint.

Sadly I fear you are right.  We are now very likely to attract increasingly shady characters.  Even worse, if they only buy a minority stake then we would be left with both Lai and these new shady characters.  Not hard to see them fighting with each other and bringing the club down further.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on June 17, 2023, 11:16:49 AM
What do I want from an owner?

1. Sustained interest.
2. Competence
3. Investment

Lai falls on all 3. It is largely through his incompetence and disinvestment that 3 is now on the list.

Peace passes on 1 and was ruthlessly competent to a point which largely negated the need for 3. The point where he started being soley focused on his own profitable exit where the long term planning was sacrificed for short-term gain. He is in that sense the Godfather of our current predicament.

Musk or any other member of the bored billionaire class.
Quite likely to fail on 1 and possibly 2 but pass on 3. Yet even here quite likely to saddle the club with lots of expensive
 signings an FFP problem and an almighty crash when they get bored and walk away.

Farnell and cronies? No nothing to recommend them.

This might seem like the goldilocks syndrome but there are very few good owners and lots of terrible ones.

We don’t get to choose.

What I want from an owner Stan is integrity, pure and simple.

Something we have not had at the club since Thompson departed
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 17, 2023, 11:34:38 AM
What I want from an owner Stan is integrity, pure and simple.

Something we have not had at the club since Thompson departed

Sadly a bygone age.  Maybe it will go full circle again - we can but hope!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on June 17, 2023, 12:10:19 PM
What I want from an owner Stan is integrity, pure and simple.

Something we have not had at the club since Thompson departed


Couldn’t agree more mate.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on June 18, 2023, 03:49:50 AM
Where Peace excelled was in the people he put in place to run the club and  the football side.
He had no long term interest only making millions and hit lucky with an idiot who would pay way over the top.
Where Lia failed miserably is exactly the opposite to Peace, he employed absolute idiots to run the club and sacked them continuously, costing the club millions with no plan or structure in place whatsoever.
When you look at the money that has been spent in his time at the club it’s mind blowing.
We have desperately needed a person to come in and organise us as a club such as Brighton or Brentford have done.
That’s the kind of owner I want.

Do you remember who recommended Willisms and Goodman?

Those two authorised the biggest waste of money in our history and led to our relegation.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on June 18, 2023, 08:53:48 AM
The same person who stayed on as an advi£er for a year.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 18, 2023, 08:58:57 AM
Looking back now, it's clear that even at day 1 Lai couldn't even be bothered enough to appoint his own men at the start of his reign.

"Just let someone else do it, pay someone else, i'm not interested......" etc etc

What a way to treat your investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 18, 2023, 11:26:27 AM
Do you remember who recommended Willisms and Goodman?

Those two authorised the biggest waste of money in our history and led to our relegation.
never replaced Dan Ashworth and now should be onto him to get loans from Newcastle.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 18, 2023, 11:28:27 AM
never replaced Dan Ashworth and now should be onto him to get loans from Newcastle.

In truth I don’t think we could ever have replaced Ashworth. He’s in a class of his own.

Agreed though that getting loans from Newcastle would help!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on June 18, 2023, 11:35:27 AM
In truth I don’t think we could ever have replaced Ashworth. He’s in a class of his own.

Agreed though that getting loans from Newcastle would help!
when you’re in the mire you call family or friends and in Ashworth I’d day club have got a friend.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 18, 2023, 11:39:33 AM
when you’re in the mire you call family or friends and in Ashworth I’d day club have got a friend.

I’m sure he’d like his son to be in a successful team!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 27, 2023, 04:11:25 PM
Even Alan Pardew had a little dig at the owners on Talksport today.


Reflecting back on his time here he said he didn't enjoy it (neither did we) and "didnt enjoy it under the ownership and it's still the same"
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 27, 2023, 05:48:14 PM
Even Alan Pardew had a little dig at the owners on Talksport today.


Reflecting back on his time here he said he didn't enjoy it (neither did we) and "didnt enjoy it under the ownership and it's still the same"

Alan sweetheart before you were appointed we had a sneaking suspicion that the owners weren't much kop your appointment pretty much confirmed it. By the way how's the career going by the way?  Love and kisses Stan



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 27, 2023, 05:56:58 PM
Alan sweetheart before you were appointed we had a sneaking suspicion that the owners weren't much kop your appointment pretty much confirmed it. By the way how's the career going by the way?  Love and kisses Stan

 ;D


Alan Pardew was a garbage appointment even by Lai standards. Not once in the interview did he take much responsibility for his own awfulness.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on June 27, 2023, 07:19:29 PM
;D


Alan Pardew was a garbage appointment even by Lai standards. Not once in the interview did he take much responsibility for his own awfulness.

Alan Pardew not realising that he’s the biggest part of the let down that season and a green under the gills Darren Moore would’ve gave us a substantially larger chance to stay up if he even had just 2 games extra.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on June 27, 2023, 07:24:03 PM
Alan Pardew not realising that he’s the biggest part of the let down that season and a green under the gills Darren Moore would’ve gave us a substantially larger chance to stay up if he even had just 2 games extra.

Yep, Pardew was beyond bad. Of course, he doesn't see it that way himself.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on June 27, 2023, 08:23:53 PM
Can someone explain to me why Lai would sell part of the club to people with no money? Also would MSD the loan company not have something in the small print guaranteeing them some part in a decision?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 27, 2023, 09:54:19 PM
The short answer is Lai won't sell to people without at least enough cash to pay for the whatever he is selling. The Farnell approach has not progressed beyond talks, I don't think he has ever bought cold hard cash to the table and his various attempts at buying clubs seem to fizzle out when they reach that point. We can only wait and see on that.

MSD don't care about who owns the club until somebody pays their loan back they have a charge on all the club's assets they can't be sold or used as security for additional borrowing without their permission (not likely to be granted). In short they don't care about who owns the equity their position is water tight and unaltered by a change in ownership. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on June 28, 2023, 09:48:29 AM
The short answer is Lai won't sell to people without at least enough cash to pay for the whatever he is selling. The Farnell approach has not progressed beyond talks, I don't think he has ever bought cold hard cash to the table and his various attempts at buying clubs seem to fizzle out when they reach that point. We can only wait and see on that.

MSD don't care about who owns the club until somebody pays their loan back they have a charge on all the club's assets they can't be sold or used as security for additional borrowing without their permission (not likely to be granted). In short they don't care about who owns the equity their position is water tight and unaltered by a change in ownership.

the only positive i can see with this Farnell chap is that whichever club he gets linked to and tries to buy he never actually does, however that club does then get sold to someone else.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 28, 2023, 10:12:59 AM
The short answer is Lai won't sell to people without at least enough cash to pay for the whatever he is selling. The Farnell approach has not progressed beyond talks, I don't think he has ever bought cold hard cash to the table and his various attempts at buying clubs seem to fizzle out when they reach that point. We can only wait and see on that.

MSD don't care about who owns the club until somebody pays their loan back they have a charge on all the club's assets they can't be sold or used as security for additional borrowing without their permission (not likely to be granted). In short they don't care about who owns the equity their position is water tight and unaltered by a change in ownership.

I think that’s only partially correct.  You are quite right that MSD’s priority is protecting their security via the debenture, but a material change of ownership invariably also means a change of directors and my recollection is that this would require MSD’s prior consent. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on June 30, 2023, 06:01:21 PM
I am about to write something that I never thought I would. The long term interests of  West Bromwich Albion are best served by us not getting promoted this coming season.

Let me explain.

There is one positive aspect to our current position is that the ownership have recently become realistic about the price they are prepared to sell at. It opens up the prospect of a sale which is the only way out of our current torpor. I do appreciate that a new ownership might not be an improvement but they might be whereas we know the current regime isn't going to get any better.

The ownership are realistic solely because there are worse scenario's available which focusses their minds i.e. relegation to league one which would further reduce their equity and the possibility of administration which would wipe them out.

Furthermore the MSD loan hems them in although it does buy them time.  However it is mixed blessing it adds to the operating costs and default is a very rapid route to administration.

If we are promoted the ownership can ship the first £20m of Premier League cash to MSD they are then free to play fast and loose with the club's assets. The asking price goes up and worst case scenario they are facing is relegation back to the Championship which is cushioned by parachute payments.

The sale is only going to happen because the owners are stuck between a rock and a hard place promotion takes the rock away. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on June 30, 2023, 07:14:26 PM
I am about to write something that I never thought I would. The long term interests of  West Bromwich Albion are best served by us not getting promoted this coming season.

....

The ownership are realistic solely because there are worse scenario's available which focusses their minds i.e. relegation to league one which would further reduce their equity and the possibility of administration which would wipe them out.

...


I have thought this for the most of the last season.  Glad I'm not alone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on June 30, 2023, 07:37:37 PM
I am about to write something that I never thought I would. The long term interests of  West Bromwich Albion are best served by us not getting promoted this coming season.

Let me explain.

There is one positive aspect to our current position is that the ownership have recently become realistic about the price they are prepared to sell at. It opens up the prospect of a sale which is the only way out of our current torpor. I do appreciate that a new ownership might not be an improvement but they might be whereas we know the current regime isn't going to get any better.

The ownership are realistic solely because there are worse scenario's available which focusses their minds i.e. relegation to league one which would further reduce their equity and the possibility of administration which would wipe them out.

Furthermore the MSD loan hems them in although it does buy them time.  However it is mixed blessing it adds to the operating costs and default is a very rapid route to administration.

If we are promoted the ownership can ship the first £20m of Premier League cash to MSD they are then free to play fast and loose with the club's assets. The asking price goes up and worst case scenario they are facing is relegation back to the Championship which is cushioned by parachute payments.

The sale is only going to happen because the owners are stuck between a rock and a hard place promotion takes the rock away.
I think we will have new owners sooner rather than later .
So hopefully it’ll become a moot point .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on June 30, 2023, 11:21:05 PM
I think we will have new owners sooner rather than later .
So hopefully it’ll become a moot point .

So do I, but I’m not convinced they’ll be any better than the current owners.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DevonInStripes on June 30, 2023, 11:42:36 PM
Let’s hope it’s not a case of out of the frying pan ……………
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 01, 2023, 01:04:49 AM
I have convinced myself that Farnell's interest is unsubstantial but as often stated serious interest tends to be kept under wraps until it is pretty much a done deal so there could be something in the offing. However these things don't happen quickly even if a deal was struck today any new owners could be months away from formally completing the deal. 

Who might be involved and their plans are as yet unknown and indeed we could be heading straight from frying pan into the fire. However we know if we sit in the frying long enough we will be burn to a cinder even on a low heat.

As ever we don't get to choose we simply have to hope for the best.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mikkyk on July 01, 2023, 08:22:44 AM
Let’s hope it’s not a case of out of the frying pan ……………

I've had the same thoughts.

But at this point the frying pan is potential administration and relegation, so surely even the fire is more attractive
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 01, 2023, 08:38:28 AM
So do I, but I’m not convinced they’ll be any better than the current owners.
I thought Jeremy was very good, it seems now that no one will ever actually be happy until we are top of the prem and buying mbappe….at that point I’d still expect some moans that mbappe is too left sided.
The noise now is new owners required, that wish will be granted….but even if I had the money I wouldn’t buy this club currently .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dynamo10 on July 01, 2023, 09:20:25 AM
it seems now that no one will ever actually be happy until we are top of the prem and buying mbappe

League champions then, what's the problem? :P

but even if I had the money I wouldn’t buy this club currently .

I would gladly buy the club if I had the resources, no two ways about it. Though I'd probably need a good amount of said resources to implement what I'd want to do - on and off the pitch, that is.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 24, 2023, 12:08:53 PM
If only he had invested in decent players. The prices the Saudi's are buying players, he would have made money and improved our club. Lack of vision.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on July 24, 2023, 12:30:03 PM
If only he had invested in decent players. The prices the Saudi's are buying players, he would have made money and improved our club. Lack of vision.

If only he'd invested in fast food joints instead of WBA - preferably in North Korea
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 24, 2023, 12:32:16 PM
Time, money, effort, attention, etc i could go on and on with what Lai could have invested anything of into the club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 25, 2023, 04:23:27 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12335717/Crypto-investor-Fred-Chesnais-talks-West-Brom-60m-takeover-owner-Guochuan-Lai-desperate-sell-financially-troubled-Championship-club.html?ito=native_share_article-top


Takeover talks rumour
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2023, 04:35:07 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12335717/Crypto-investor-Fred-Chesnais-talks-West-Brom-60m-takeover-owner-Guochuan-Lai-desperate-sell-financially-troubled-Championship-club.html?ito=native_share_article-top


Takeover talks rumour

Interesting?

HRK coming back as CEO?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on July 25, 2023, 04:37:04 PM
His net worth looks poor on paper, certainly no billionaire, so may be locked into the same limited (no) spending spiral.
Will he be a better owner than Lai, to be honest Wurzel Gummidge would be a better owner than Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on July 25, 2023, 04:41:17 PM
Its only the Daily Mail.

Wait until I see more news agencies that are more reliable before I believe it.

Would he better than Lai ?  surely couldn't be any worse ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on July 25, 2023, 04:50:33 PM
I suspect there's probably at least something to it, its a bit of an out there link to make out of the blue.

While we all want Lai out, its crucial that the next person is competent and has the clubs best intentions at heart. It's quite easy for clubs in ours situation to lurch from one disaster to enough as chancers smell blood. We already saw with the previous guy who was reportedly interested in buying a stake who was extremely sketchy.

I can't claim to know who this guy is, but the crypto industry is rife full of conmen and this guy doesn't seem to be especially wealthy so I would be skeptical. Just reading quickly, it doesn't seem like he has a great deal of credibility, even within the crypto world.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 25, 2023, 04:58:21 PM
Agree there has to be some kind of talks occurring or he wouldn't be named.

WBA twitter moaning he ain't got no money if true. If he tries a touch he will already be leagues ahead of Lai- money or not.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on July 25, 2023, 05:06:40 PM
Any naming of interested parties at this point should be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Purchasing a football club will involve NDA’s so any named parties in the press probably aren’t serious buyers & just want to get their name out there. It’s often not found out until very late in the day if a serious buyer is in for the club.

The good news if true is that Lai is looking to sell.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: miggybaggy on July 25, 2023, 05:08:56 PM
Promising news. Something more concrete appears to be happening at last, and realistic figures are mentioned. We need to escape the Chinese strangle-hold and its complex system of allowing money to leave the country (or not)!

Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 25, 2023, 05:11:59 PM
Interesting?

HRK coming back as CEO?


Is HRK associated with him? I have no idea John, i don't follow crypto related news, i don't 'get it'
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 25, 2023, 05:19:33 PM
I suspect there's probably at least something to it, its a bit of an out there link to make out of the blue.

While we all want Lai out, its crucial that the next person is competent and has the clubs best intentions at heart. It's quite easy for clubs in ours situation to lurch from one disaster to enough as chancers smell blood. We already saw with the previous guy who was reportedly interested in buying a stake who was extremely sketchy.

I can't claim to know who this guy is, but the crypto industry is rife full of conmen and this guy doesn't seem to be especially wealthy so I would be skeptical. Just reading quickly, it doesn't seem like he has a great deal of credibility, even within the crypto world.

Frederic Chesnais is the largest shareholder and CEO of Atari Group. Started his career as a lawyer in the banking sector. He is also the chairman at Crypto Blockchain Industries, which are presently listed on the Paris stock exchange. I would guess his net worth is up to £50m unless his has further family wealth that is not apparent. He might be acting on behalf of a consortium or relying on third party funders. He isn't wealthy but there is nothing to suggest that he is dodgy either.

Interesting comment in the Mail story is that Lai has dropped his asking price to £65m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 25, 2023, 05:20:14 PM
As far as I can make out Chesnais does not have any sort of previous involvement or interest in football. His background is gaming. He now is the majority owner of Crypto Blockchain Industries which has relationships with clubs and market NFT's in something called the AlphaVerse (please don't ask me to explain because I can't)

Is this billionaire sugar daddy that some fans dream of? No. Better than Lai? Possibly .

As others have said it is in the Mail so I am not getting over excited by the prospect. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2023, 05:20:28 PM

Is HRK associated with him? I have no idea John, i don't follow crypto related news, i don't 'get it'

HRK is allegedly big into crypto, he understands it well & saw opportunities in his latter days with us.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 25, 2023, 05:21:22 PM
Its only the Daily Mail.

Wait until I see more news agencies that are more reliable before I believe it.

Would he better than Lai ?  surely couldn't be any worse ?
It may only be the Mail but it does actually have a journos name attached to it which would suggest it hasn't just been pulled out of thin air !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 25, 2023, 05:23:17 PM
HRK is allegedly big into crypto, he understands it well & saw opportunities in his latter days with us.

Correct, he is a long term investor and big advocate of bitcoin (as are many others); but has no relation to Frederic Chesnais.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 25, 2023, 05:25:54 PM
HRK is allegedly big into crypto, he understands it well & saw opportunities in his latter days with us.

Thanks for that.


I notice it says he is making a cash offer of £60m for our club so if he is 'only' worth around 50m himself then he will have others involved.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on July 25, 2023, 05:28:27 PM
Thanks for that.


I notice it says he is making a cash offer of £60m for our club so if he is 'only' worth around 50m himself then he will have others involved.



I was about to say, the only thing I can find on his is he is worth 17 million, he would have to have others involved etc
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 25, 2023, 05:31:01 PM
Thanks for that.


I notice it says he is making a cash offer of £60m for our club so if he is 'only' worth around 50m himself then he will have others involved.

It was intended as a tongue in cheek remark, but "there's many a true word spoken in jest"  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jordie1471 on July 25, 2023, 05:51:41 PM
Agree there has to be some kind of talks occurring or he wouldn't be named.

WBA twitter moaning he ain't got no money if true. If he tries a touch he will already be leagues ahead of Lai- money or not.

I have absolutely no interest in a multi billionaire sugar daddy buying us into becoming a mid to lower greed league club personally.

But each to their own. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 25, 2023, 05:53:04 PM
I have absolutely no interest in a multi billionaire sugar daddy buying us into becoming a mid to lower greed league club personally.

But each to their own.

Of course, i feel the opposite. Maybe you enjoyed the dark days of League 1 in the 90s but i couldn't stand it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on July 25, 2023, 06:28:07 PM
He's into blockchain based business but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's involved in for crypto-currency like bitcoin.  Blockchain is  often used for recording transactions such as payments systems under the more generic title of distributed ledger applications.

His wikipedia entry says he turned round Atari from disaster before founding his own video games company.
 Also
"Since November 2015, he has been a member of the Advisory Board of the Department of Psychiatry at Mount Sinai Health System in New York, USA."

Seems ideal for us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 25, 2023, 06:31:45 PM
Yep, blockchain is more like a ledger FOR crypto, it's not a currency.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on July 25, 2023, 06:33:29 PM
Don't know what to think about this. For a start, I don't know anything about the crypto industry. If its got something to do with gambling, then that says alot about what drives the main players. I'd like to think the guy had some interest in football (even Lai turned up to a few games wearing a scarf). Someone needs to ask the question. Are you prepared to invest in the football club?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 25, 2023, 06:51:49 PM
Don't know what to think about this. For a start, I don't know anything about the crypto industry. If its got something to do with gambling, then that says alot about what drives the main players. I'd like to think the guy had some interest in football (even Lai turned up to a few games wearing a scarf). Someone needs to ask the question. Are you prepared to invest in the football club?

The fact that he has block-chain company is irrelevant IMV other than his general technology and legal background shows that he is up to date with some of the tech growth areas of the world economy. From the limited information available (French privacy laws are notorious) he doesn't have wealth to change the club dramatically, even if he could short-circuit FFP.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 25, 2023, 08:25:23 PM
Any naming of interested parties at this point should be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Purchasing a football club will involve NDA’s so any named parties in the press probably aren’t serious buyers & just want to get their name out there. It’s often not found out until very late in the day if a serious buyer is in for the club.

The good news if true is that Lai is looking to sell.
Except for Sir Jim Ratcliffe who was named well in advance of actually bidding for both Chelsea and Man Utd .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 25, 2023, 08:29:15 PM
One of his companies, Crypto Blockchain Industries, is listed on the Paris Stock Exchange and is currently worth €136m.  He owns 89.5% of it, so regardless of any other wealth from Atari he’s “worth” (on paper) at least €122m.

Whilst I’m not a fan of NFTs and how they are being used to exploit gullible supporters, I take comfort from his professional background and investment banker history.  He’s clearly not a fool and doesn’t seem to be shady, which is a massive step in the right direction.

As long as he doesn’t load a lot of debt on us to buy it via a leveraged deal, this looks worth exploring based on what little we know.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: beechyboy90 on July 26, 2023, 02:24:05 AM
Now the asking price is 70m does that put a fan consortium with 1 wealthy backer more possible?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on July 26, 2023, 04:56:09 AM
Why would you buy a football club?

1, You are a fan.


Local boy made good buys the club he supports. Heart warming tales of being taken to the ground by his Grandad munificently benign and we all live happily ever after. There are only two problems with this first of all being well intentioned does not make you competent. See Mel Morris or Simon Jordan. Secondly while the local boy might be happy to pour their fortune into the club their heirs are often a lot less inclined and the wheels drop off after the family inherit e.g. Jack Walker.

2. Sports washing

Basically the money is secondary what you want is influence and the second hand adulation that being associated with a successful sports club brings. Worked well for Roman Abramovich less well for the slew of Chinese owners including our own beloved leader. 

3 To make money

There is a river of money flowing through the game therefore the likes of Hedge funds figure there must be a way of diverting some of it into their coffers. By and large there isn't except buy a club in the Championship as cheap as you can and get it into the Premier League and sell it for a massive profit. Good luck with that.

4. It Aligns with your other business interests

There are very few owners who have trodden this path. Football is pretty unique it has massive pulling power and many businesses have commercial relationships with clubs through sponsorship but few have any natural symbiosis with the game and in particular any real benefit from  being part of the ownership of an individual club. Mike Ashby and Sports Direct come to mind at Newcastle. Many moons ago some of the Cable TV Operators took stakes in various clubs it wasn't a lasting relationship.

5. Ego

You are a multi billionaire who frankly has run out of stuff to buy and why not it will be a blast.

So what is our new suitor?

He does not seem to fit any of the above too neatly. A fan? Unlikely. There does not seem to be the whiff of scandal to require sports washing. Making money perhaps but he isn't a sports investor nor a hedge fund. It aligns with his business interests (Blockchain FC) but that's hard to see.

 He isn't a bored billionaire because well he ain't a billionaire although I do find it funny that a bunch of football fans who collectively don't have two tanners to rub together think a businessman whose net worth is in excess of £100m is potless. 

I don't know how this pans out but if there is interest at least it means the ownership is serious about selling the club at a reasonable price. 
 

 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: jharman292 on July 26, 2023, 07:41:40 AM
Whilst the story came from The Daily Mail, it was actually penned by Matt Hughes who is very much regarded as a credible journalist and has been spot on in regards to Albion on many occasions and most importantly, back room matters at the club.

I also think people are getting a bit hung up on the guys "personal" wealth.
1. We have no way of really knowing what that actually is.
2. I find it difficult to imagine that he would be acting alone in this and is more likely to be acting on behalf of a organisation and/or group of individuals. Fundamentally, we have no way of really understanding the capital behind any bid until more details are released.

As for the guy himself, the word "Crypto" does not in any way make him a less credible investor imo. I am just happy that this guy does not seem to have a bad history in regards to other clubs and seems, at least on the surface anyway, to be an astute businessman.

Lets see what happens. Anything that involves our current ownership leaving the building, then I am all ears.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on July 26, 2023, 08:36:24 AM
Whilst the story came from The Daily Mail, it was actually penned by Matt Hughes who is very much regarded as a credible journalist and has been spot on in regards to Albion on many occasions and most importantly, back room matters at the club.

I also think people are getting a bit hung up on the guys "personal" wealth.
1. We have no way of really knowing what that actually is.
2. I find it difficult to imagine that he would be acting alone in this and is more likely to be acting on behalf of a organisation and/or group of individuals. Fundamentally, we have no way of really understanding the capital behind any bid until more details are released.

As for the guy himself, the word "Crypto" does not in any way make him a less credible investor imo. I am just happy that this guy does not seem to have a bad history in regards to other clubs and seems, at least on the surface anyway, to be an astute businessman.

Lets see what happens. Anything that involves our current ownership leaving the building, then I am all ears.

Spot on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBaggieMan on July 26, 2023, 08:54:25 AM
Interesting development if true.
All I can say is this Fred Chesnais fellow cannot be any worse than our current owner and it has to be a small step in the right direction - only time will tell but don’t hold your breath.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 26, 2023, 08:56:09 AM
Whilst the story came from The Daily Mail, it was actually penned by Matt Hughes who is very much regarded as a credible journalist and has been spot on in regards to Albion on many occasions and most importantly, back room matters at the club.

I also think people are getting a bit hung up on the guys "personal" wealth.
1. We have no way of really knowing what that actually is.
2. I find it difficult to imagine that he would be acting alone in this and is more likely to be acting on behalf of a organisation and/or group of individuals. Fundamentally, we have no way of really understanding the capital behind any bid until more details are released.

As for the guy himself, the word "Crypto" does not in any way make him a less credible investor imo. I am just happy that this guy does not seem to have a bad history in regards to other clubs and seems, at least on the surface anyway, to be an astute businessman.

Lets see what happens. Anything that involves our current ownership leaving the building, then I am all ears.

East coast USA based and spent a lot of time in Dubai, I imagine he will have better connections than Shenzhen Lai and his guanzhou oppos in my humble.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 26, 2023, 09:49:12 AM
East coast USA based and spent a lot of time in Dubai, I imagine he will have better connections than Shenzhen Lai and his guanzhou oppos in my humble.

Not ITK but I'm thinking this would be a consortium takeover as opposed to individual ownership. If so I'd be very interested to know the identities of said consortium, their combined wealth and most importantly what their vision is for us and how they plan to achieve it moving forward. Still it's just a link at the moment....... tiny steps.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 26, 2023, 10:06:05 AM
Consortiums always seem to be linked with football clubs, but have any worked out well?  None really spring to mind.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 26, 2023, 12:04:22 PM
Why would you buy a football club?

1, You are a fan.


Local boy made good buys the club he supports. Heart warming tales of being taken to the ground by his Grandad munificently benign and we all live happily ever after. There are only two problems with this first of all being well intentioned does not make you competent. See Mel Morris or Simon Jordan. Secondly while the local boy might be happy to pour their fortune into the club their heirs are often a lot less inclined and the wheels drop off after the family inherit e.g. Jack Walker.

2. Sports washing

Basically the money is secondary what you want is influence and the second hand adulation that being associated with a successful sports club brings. Worked well for Roman Abramovich less well for the slew of Chinese owners including our own beloved leader. 

3 To make money

There is a river of money flowing through the game therefore the likes of Hedge funds figure there must be a way of diverting some of it into their coffers. By and large there isn't except buy a club in the Championship as cheap as you can and get it into the Premier League and sell it for a massive profit. Good luck with that.

4. It Aligns with your other business interests

There are very few owners who have trodden this path. Football is pretty unique it has massive pulling power and many businesses have commercial relationships with clubs through sponsorship but few have any natural symbiosis with the game and in particular any real benefit from  being part of the ownership of an individual club. Mike Ashby and Sports Direct come to mind at Newcastle. Many moons ago some of the Cable TV Operators took stakes in various clubs it wasn't a lasting relationship.


5. Ego

You are a multi billionaire who frankly has run out of stuff to buy and why not it will be a blast.

So what is our new suitor?

He does not seem to fit any of the above too neatly. A fan? Unlikely. There does not seem to be the whiff of scandal to require sports washing. Making money perhaps but he isn't a sports investor nor a hedge fund. It aligns with his business interests (Blockchain FC) but that's hard to see.

 He isn't a bored billionaire because well he ain't a billionaire although I do find it funny that a bunch of football fans who collectively don't have two tanners to rub together think a businessman whose net worth is in excess of £100m is potless. 

I don't know how this pans out but if there is interest at least it means the ownership is serious about selling the club at a reasonable price.


It might be worth it for £60 million though, especially if you can sell at a profit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on July 26, 2023, 12:48:58 PM
As someone once said, "An interested owner is better than a rich owner" - let's see where this one goes. However, we've seen this kind of story before with Lai.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 26, 2023, 03:37:24 PM
Now this doesn't mean he's buying us or close but just had a nose on his twitter and an Albion supporter has replied to a new tweet from him about something unrelated to WBA and they have put "announce buying WBA"and he liked it so I'd suggest the rumour is correct.

Whether anything comes of it is a different matter.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 26, 2023, 04:42:01 PM
Now this doesn't mean he's buying us or close but just had a nose on his twitter and an Albion supporter has replied to a new tweet from him about something unrelated to WBA and they have put "announce buying WBA"and he liked it so I'd suggest the rumour is correct.

Whether anything comes of it is a different matter.

I wouldn't read too much into it Gaz', sounds like the kind of thing I'd do for a wind up   ;D (if I had more money than I knew what to do with, didn't support the Albion and was a bit bored ahead of buying my next piece of the world ) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on July 26, 2023, 05:50:51 PM
These are just games to me that people play to get some publicity. Could be wrong but the game is littered with these takeovers that come out in the daily mail and never come off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 26, 2023, 06:03:50 PM
I just want Lai gone guys  >:(
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on July 26, 2023, 06:13:54 PM
I just want Lai gone guys  >:(
people just wanted Peace gone too and they genuinely thought that it couldn’t get any worse than him. There is always someone who can do worse.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 26, 2023, 06:15:23 PM
people just wanted Peace gone too and they genuinely thought that it couldn’t get any worse than him. There is always someone who can do worse.

Oh i would never have said you couldn't get worse than Peace. He was an astute chap. Lai is toxic as hell. I'm not saying there isn't someone as bad as him in the world but it would be rotten luck to meet his type twice.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie79 on July 26, 2023, 06:31:18 PM
I bet he is really happy with all this free publicity. Whether he planted it with a journo/publication or not this has been great for online profile.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 26, 2023, 06:35:38 PM
Oh i would never have said you couldn't get worse than Peace. He was an astute chap. Lai is toxic as hell. I'm not saying there isn't someone as bad as him in the world but it would be rotten luck to meet his type twice.

I think Standaman's comments earlier on today are extremely valid.
To be confident that any change in ownership will work, we have to understand the motivation of the buyer.

I agree with Stan on almost all of his profiles of potential buyers, but I could see a situation where a buyer might use the aquisition of WBA to improve the profile of his own business, especially for £60 million.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on July 26, 2023, 06:44:53 PM
Oh i would never have said you couldn't get worse than Peace. He was an astute chap. Lai is toxic as hell. I'm not saying there isn't someone as bad as him in the world but it would be rotten luck to meet his type twice.

Many of us thought and knew Peace was an astute chap and safe pair of hands. Many were frustrated by his lack of ambition and not taking ‘the next step’. Not many of us saw the fact that he was about to mug the club off to the first person with more money than sense regardless with absolutely no care for the future of the club. Some lifelong baggie fan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 26, 2023, 06:45:40 PM
I think Standaman's comments earlier on today are extremely valid.
To be confident that any change in ownership will work, we have to understand the motivation of the buyer.

I agree with Stan on almost all of his profiles of potential buyers, but I could see a situation where a buyer might use the aquisition of WBA to improve the profile of his own business, especially for £60 million.

I disagree. A buyer could have all the best intentions in the world but if they appoint poor personnel then it will be all for nothing.

At 60m a promotion to the PL will see your profit double pretty much minus any funds spent improving the squad
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 26, 2023, 06:46:39 PM
Many of us thought and knew Peace was an astute chap and safe pair of hands. Many wee frustrated by his lack of ambition and not taking ‘the next step’. Not many of us saw the fact that he was about to mug the club off to the first person with more money than sense regardless with absolutely no care for the future of the club. Some lifelong baggie fan.


I agree he didn't care when he sold the club about who he sold it too.

I never considered him a baggies fan, just a business building something to sell at some point
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on July 26, 2023, 07:01:44 PM

I agree he didn't care when he sold the club about who he sold it too.

I never considered him a baggies fan, just a business building something to sell at some point
For me that was the key difference between our development and Wolves. Their owner had the best interests of the club at heart. He was a very successful businessman but didn’t see the club as an asset to be sold to the highest bidder. He made sure that the interests of the club came first. Whether their current owners will do the same in the future remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 26, 2023, 07:04:27 PM
For me that was the key difference between our development and Wolves. Their own had the best interests at the club at heart. He was a very successful businessman but didn’t see the club as an asset to be sold to the highest bidder. He made sure that the interests of the club came first. Whether their current owners will do the same in the future remains to be seen.

I think Fosun have pulled the plug on the dingle credit card.

Fosun did get them into Europe though in fairness.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on July 26, 2023, 07:33:04 PM
I think Fosun have pulled the plug on the dingle credit card.

Fosun did get them into Europe though in fairness.

you could argue getting Europe during the covid season was the start of the downfall, a lot more outlay on players and bonuses without any money coming in
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on July 26, 2023, 07:33:51 PM
I disagree. A buyer could have all the best intentions in the world but if they appoint poor personnel then it will be all for nothing.

At 60m a promotion to the PL will see your profit double pretty much minus any funds spent improving the squad

Lai appointed poor personnel because he didn't know what good personnel looked like.
You would hope that a motivated potential owner would have sounded out good personnel before pushing the button.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 26, 2023, 07:34:44 PM
Lai appointed poor personnel because he didn't know what good personnel looked like.
You would hope that a motivated potential owner would have sounded out good personnel before pushing the button.

You would hope ANY owner would have a clue at some level. Lai doesn't.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 26, 2023, 09:37:41 PM
I note that Fred Chenais has tge same initials as he who comes but once a year!
Lets hope that this santa has a sackful of money and ideas eh?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 26, 2023, 10:08:17 PM
I note that Fred Chenais has tge same initials as he who comes but once a year!
Lets hope that this santa has a sackful of money and ideas eh?

Knowing our luck he'd turn up with no nuts and a sack full of mouldy tangerines.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 26, 2023, 10:58:10 PM
Knowing our luck he'd turn up with no nuts and a sack full of mouldy tangerines.
Which would be half a sack of mouldy tangerines more than Lai has fronted up for the club ! ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on July 27, 2023, 12:42:50 AM
I'd rather have right said Fred in charge of us than this chancer.

We'd have to be deeply dippy to even consider this guy, as his bank balance doesn't make him too sexy for his shirt.

He maybe Fair owner but he's not got enough Brass, and comes across a bit of a d.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: jimmyj on July 27, 2023, 11:28:29 AM
The crypto-bro tag is giving him a bit of a bad name I think.
Reading the mail profile on him, he's been CFO and CEO of Atari and MD of Microprose, two pretty beefy entities in the world of video games/software. Legally qualified, background in normal banking as well. He sounds a world away from the Crawley Town idiots, or the ones who were sponsoring Barnsley. I'm quietly optimistic that this is a good thing, and if the potential purchase wipes away the MSD loan, then even better.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on July 27, 2023, 11:49:57 AM
The crypto-bro tag is giving him a bit of a bad name I think.
Reading the mail profile on him, he's been CFO and CEO of Atari and MD of Microprose, two pretty beefy entities in the world of video games/software. Legally qualified, background in normal banking as well. He sounds a world away from the Crawley Town idiots, or the ones who were sponsoring Barnsley. I'm quietly optimistic that this is a good thing, and if the potential purchase wipes away the MSD loan, then even better.

Possibly. For anyone interested in the difference between blockchain and cryptocurrency the following link may prove helpful. Not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs but Fred's into blockchain.

https://rb.gy/a7en4

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on July 27, 2023, 12:27:42 PM
I'd rather have right said Fred in charge of us than this chancer.

We'd have to be deeply dippy to even consider this guy, as his bank balance doesn't make him too sexy for his shirt.


Based on what ? You don’t get to be CEO of companies like Atari without having a bit of something about you !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 27, 2023, 12:29:15 PM
Based on what ? You don’t get to be CEO of companies like Atari without having a bit of something about you !


Balis was just making a lot of references to Right Said Fred throughout his entire post mate. It made me chuckle a bit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on July 27, 2023, 12:32:46 PM
Possibly. For anyone interested in the difference between blockchain and cryptocurrency the following link may prove helpful. Not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs but Fred's into blockchain.

https://rb.gy/a7en4

you would think someone with Freds background would be data driven and not "old school football man" or "chinese gardner looking for publicity" type
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: jimmyj on July 27, 2023, 12:44:28 PM
you would think someone with Freds background would be data driven and not "old school football man" or "chinese gardner looking for publicity" type

Exactly. You look at Brentford and Bournemouth, and you see they're run by guys who have come from data/statistics driven betting backgrounds. I don't see this Fred chap as being a million miles away from that. He has to be a better option and have more about him that Lai. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 27, 2023, 12:45:14 PM
Exactly. You look at Brentford and Bournemouth, and you see they're run by guys who have come from data/statistics driven betting backgrounds. I don't see this Fred chap as being a million miles away from that. He has to be a better option and have more about him that Lai.

EVen if someone knows as little as Lai, if they take an interest in the club they have Lai beat hands down and disaster after disaster would not happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on July 27, 2023, 01:22:50 PM
Based on what ? You don’t get to be CEO of companies like Atari without having a bit of something about you !

Based on posters like you salivating at the prospect of spending Lai's billions when he darkened our doorstep.

Let's try and do some proper due diligence this time, orher than the fact he is ceo of a company that had it's best days in the early 80's when we all played space invaders on the 2600, and has been shut down and now the name is being used for crypto related business.

Other than that it was a joke, and the d was for dick short for Richard as in Fairbrass.

I hope this Fred is genuine and has a brilliant madterplan to emulate and then surpass the likes of Brentford with moneyball, but forgive my scepticism given who was supposed to buying us a couple of weeks ago.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on July 27, 2023, 01:52:45 PM
I think he's the head hancho of a consortium

If he has a personal wealth of around 150 million, 60 million is a big chunk to gamble
Unless he plans to recoup his outlay by selling bits of the club, training ground maybe?
I hope not, or renaming and sponsor renaming the Hawthorns or even worse borrowing the 69 million and expecting to psy off his debt through wba
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ronnie Allen on July 27, 2023, 02:17:36 PM
Possibly. For anyone interested in the difference between blockchain and cryptocurrency the following link may prove helpful. Not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs but Fred's into blockchain.

https://rb.gy/a7en4

Yes, thanks.  This needed clarifying. Blockchain is a technology; crypto uses blockchain to carry its transactions. You can have blockchain without crypto. You can’t have crypto without blockchain.
Which brings me to what’s in this investment for Chesnais. My guess is that football offers potential for expansion of blockchain in all kinds of areas: ticketing, sponsorship, contracts, scouting and inevitably,  gambling. There must be many others. Maybe, just maybe, WBA might be a foot in the door, thin end of the wedge, suck it and see - choose your metaphor - vehicle for blockchain application. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: seteefeet on July 27, 2023, 02:19:59 PM
Yes, thanks.  This needed clarifying. Blockchain is a technology; crypto uses blockchain to carry its transactions. You can have blockchain without crypto. You can’t have crypto without blockchain.
Which brings me to what’s in this investment for Chesnais. My guess is that football offers potential for expansion of blockchain in all kinds of areas: ticketing, sponsorship, contracts, scouting and inevitably,  gambling. There must be many others. Maybe, just maybe, WBA might be a foot in the door, thin end of the wedge, suck it and see - choose your metaphor - vehicle for blockchain application. Just a thought.
It's certainly a long way from sheds!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Ronnie Allen on July 27, 2023, 03:59:55 PM
It's certainly a long way from sheds!

 ;D From Trev the Shed to Fred the Encryptor! What a time to be alive.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on July 27, 2023, 04:16:47 PM
Chesnais has just posted the following on twitter:

I see a lot of amazing West Brom fans joining my profile, thank you for the support!

âš½Excited to connect with you all.

I am the founder of Football at AlphaVerse. This is a free-to-play 3D world dedicated to football and all the greatest clubs.

Exclusive videos, interviews, meet players, plays games, etc…
@FootballAlphaV
.

We give away tickets for football games, and yes we will have some for West Brom at home or away. We also give away jerseys.🎟️

Stay tuned for more exciting news!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 27, 2023, 04:20:05 PM
Chesnais has just posted the following on twitter:

I see a lot of amazing West Brom fans joining my profile, thank you for the support!

âš½Excited to connect with you all.

I am the founder of Football at AlphaVerse. This is a free-to-play 3D world dedicated to football and all the greatest clubs.

Exclusive videos, interviews, meet players, plays games, etc…
@FootballAlphaV
.

We give away tickets for football games, and yes we will have some for West Brom at home or away. We also give away jerseys.🎟️

Stay tuned for more exciting news!

I think a lot of our fans are going to very disappointed..

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on July 27, 2023, 04:23:55 PM
Based on posters like you salivating at the prospect of spending Lai's billions when he darkened our doorstep.

Let's try and do some proper due diligence this time, orher than the fact he is ceo of a company that had it's best days in the early 80's when we all played space invaders on the 2600, and has been shut down and now the name is being used for crypto related business.

Other than that it was a joke, and the d was for dick short for Richard as in Fairbrass.

I hope this Fred is genuine and has a brilliant madterplan to emulate and then surpass the likes of Brentford with moneyball, but forgive my scepticism given who was supposed to buying us a couple of weeks ago.

It’s not “us” who need to do any due diligence.  The only relevant parties for that are Yunyai (as vendor), the EFL (as regulator) and Ken (as sole director of Group - for which read Yunyai).

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: jimmyj on July 27, 2023, 04:25:37 PM
Oh god, I take it all back.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zac on July 27, 2023, 04:30:08 PM
Chesnais has just posted the following on twitter:

I see a lot of amazing West Brom fans joining my profile, thank you for the support!

âš½Excited to connect with you all.

I am the founder of Football at AlphaVerse. This is a free-to-play 3D world dedicated to football and all the greatest clubs.

Exclusive videos, interviews, meet players, plays games, etc…
@FootballAlphaV
.

We give away tickets for football games, and yes we will have some for West Brom at home or away. We also give away jerseys.🎟️

Stay tuned for more exciting news!

All i am seeing here is red flags.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DevonInStripes on July 27, 2023, 06:07:54 PM
Let’s look forward to the free jerseys !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on July 27, 2023, 06:13:40 PM
Yes, thanks.  This needed clarifying. Blockchain is a technology; crypto uses blockchain to carry its transactions. You can have blockchain without crypto. You can’t have crypto without blockchain.
Which brings me to what’s in this investment for Chesnais. My guess is that football offers potential for expansion of blockchain in all kinds of areas: ticketing, sponsorship, contracts, scouting and inevitably,  gambling. There must be many others. Maybe, just maybe, WBA might be a foot in the door, thin end of the wedge, suck it and see - choose your metaphor - vehicle for blockchain application. Just a thought.

Use of crypto on its own might be misleading.
  Cypto-currencies rely on blockchain technology (distributed ledger cutting out central banks) and blockchain technology  relies on cryptology.
Cryptocurrency is only one use of blockchain..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on July 27, 2023, 06:24:25 PM
Chesnais has just posted the following on twitter:

I see a lot of amazing West Brom fans joining my profile, thank you for the support!

âš½Excited to connect with you all.

I am the founder of Football at AlphaVerse. This is a free-to-play 3D world dedicated to football and all the greatest clubs.

Exclusive videos, interviews, meet players, plays games, etc…
@FootballAlphaV
.

We give away tickets for football games, and yes we will have some for West Brom at home or away. We also give away jerseys.🎟️

Stay tuned for more exciting news!

That’s not a guy who’s about to buy us IMO.

That’s a bloke happy about this story as it’s drawn attention to his business. Wouldn’t be surprised if he try’s to get himself linked to multiple clubs to draw further attention.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Joust on July 27, 2023, 07:23:19 PM
That’s not a guy who’s about to buy us IMO.

That’s a bloke happy about this story as it’s drawn attention to his business. Wouldn’t be surprised if he try’s to get himself linked to multiple clubs to draw further attention.

Correct
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on July 27, 2023, 08:18:59 PM
Chesnais has just posted the following on twitter:

I see a lot of amazing West Brom fans joining my profile, thank you for the support!

âš½Excited to connect with you all.

I am the founder of Football at AlphaVerse. This is a free-to-play 3D world dedicated to football and all the greatest clubs.

Exclusive videos, interviews, meet players, plays games, etc…
@FootballAlphaV
.

We give away tickets for football games, and yes we will have some for West Brom at home or away. We also give away jerseys.🎟️

Stay tuned for more exciting news!

As suspected, using us to up the profile of whatever irrelevant garbage he peddles.

All these lemmings have liked him or whatever and he has got a lot of free publicity instead of having to pay millions for it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on July 27, 2023, 08:43:32 PM
Doesn't sound great but he gained a few hundred followers since the article but now that number has started going down since that tweet so what's he gained?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on July 27, 2023, 11:00:56 PM
Doesn't sound great but he gained a few hundred followers since the article but now that number has started going down since that tweet so what's he gained?

We'll find out when his next set of accounts come out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 03, 2023, 12:33:58 PM
The way Birmingham are setting, up it's going to shame Guochuan. He is simply losing face unless he does something quickly.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on August 03, 2023, 01:04:53 PM
The way Birmingham are setting, up it's going to shame Guochuan. He is simply losing face unless he does something quickly.

He doesn't even care about his own club. There's no way he's going to care one iota what another random team in the division is upto.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on August 03, 2023, 01:38:35 PM
Birmingham look likely to rise from the ashes like a phoenix. If we don't get a new owner soon we are likely to sink into the swamp like a brick.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: phbaggies on August 03, 2023, 02:15:02 PM
The way Birmingham are setting, up it's going to shame Guochuan. He is simply losing face unless he does something quickly.
Genuine question (and I detest the bloke btw) what else can he do? He has openly put us on the market for a reported £140m loss on what he paid for us. I think that in itself will bring enough shame to him....
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 03, 2023, 07:24:41 PM
Bought the club, told us it had to be self supporting financially, appointed staff with strong credentials and they failed to deliver, thus the finances failed, spiral.
Now trying to get out with massive losses.
Apart from “borrowing” some cash it’s the appointments that got us here! As a non football man, he got mugged by footballs dinasours pure and simple. The Dinasaurs deserve most of our vitriol
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on August 03, 2023, 07:39:31 PM
Bought the club, told us it had to be self supporting financially, appointed staff with strong credentials and they failed to deliver, thus the finances failed, spiral.
Now trying to get out with massive losses.
Apart from “borrowing” some cash it’s the appointments that got us here! As a non football man, he got mugged by footballs dinasours pure and simple. The Dinasaurs deserve most of our vitriol

To some extent I agree with that when he first purchased the club Williams sold him down the river but since then it’s been 1 disastrous appointment to the other which have all been on Lai’s watch & let’s not forget the bloke has taken money out of the club knowing it would never been re-paid back.

Lai’s complete disinterest & mismanagement of the club is where we are today & why he & his cronies are looking at an enormous loss on their investment, they completely deserve it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on August 03, 2023, 08:03:08 PM
Its on Lai, he took our cash, he appointed the useless, he has been in charge and we have spiralled into potential oblivion.  Its all on him.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on August 03, 2023, 09:05:38 PM
Bought the club, told us it had to be self supporting financially, appointed staff with strong credentials and they failed to deliver, thus the finances failed, spiral.
Now trying to get out with massive losses.
Apart from “borrowing” some cash it’s the appointments that got us here! As a non football man, he got mugged by footballs dinasours pure and simple. The Dinasaurs deserve most of our vitriol
You’re right in pointing out that there have been numerous persons that have benefited financially, regardless how it would look on their CV. We’ve been leeched, and will continue to be. By coaches, players, and agents. It’s too easy in an industry awash with money. Only fans really care about a football club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DevonInStripes on August 03, 2023, 10:03:55 PM
Since he took over it’s been a model case of how not to run a football club .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 05, 2023, 08:14:44 AM
7 years today he agreed takeover deal. Feels like 70.

EDIT - Lai at the time said he was buying everyone a scarf who goes to Crystal Palace away and everyone a drink who goes the first home game.  Got it off my FB memories today :D 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiedom on August 05, 2023, 09:56:14 AM
Time flies when having fun 😡. Got his money back for scarfs and drinks with a bit extra on too has mr Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on August 09, 2023, 03:47:02 PM
This makes for painful reading, comments from wolves chairman:
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2023/08/09/jeff-shi-we-nearly-bought-the-west-brom-and-nuno-was-going-to-be-boss/

“I flew over here and had talks with Jeremy Peace [Albion’s chairman] but the deal failed because we thought the price was not right. It was £200million for a team that would find it very hard to stay up in the Premier League. You can pay £200m but you still have to find another £100m to buy players. When we spoke with West Brom I met Nuno [Espirito Santo] once in a restaurant to talk about the chance of taking him there. Jorge then said to us, ‘Jeff if you are talking with West Brom why aren’t you talking with other clubs?’ so I agreed and it went from there".

Jeremy Peace sold Albion for every penny he could get for himself with no commitments for any investment in the club. Compare that to Steve Morgan sold Wolves for £30m - the same price he paid to buy the club with a commitment Fosun would invest £100m into the club.

This quote from Jex Moxey is also revealing: "It’s always worth mentioning that we were never going to sell to anyone unless they were credible. There was a sense of responsibility among all of us and Steve, as the owner, had a strong professionalism about doing what was right. His reputation and the club’s reputation were too important to sell to someone who wasn’t going to help the club progress."

Lai is every inch Jeremy Peace's legacy. I think as a fanbase we have every right to be furious that our former chairman could not see past his bank balance. Not to mention that loan his took out against the club to allegedly fund him hoovering up shares that has never been explained.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on August 09, 2023, 03:52:27 PM
The fact that Peace's entire personal fortune is built off this club, and he didn't even bother to ensure the 5m loan he took from it was repaid when he left tells you everything you need to know about the guy. Even paid himself a nice 2m salary for his final year here, which I believe made him the highest paid chairman in the league that season.

Only thing he ever got right was Ashworth, and even then had he any ambitious bone in his body and backed the recruitment Ashworth built up here, we could have been Brighton 10 years beforehand. Instead he was publicly scared of us making Europe, and then after Ashworth left made numerous terrible appointments trying to do everything on the cheap, leading to our once great recruitment dwindling and then being scrapped entirely, eventually leaving us entirely reliant on Pulis scraping to 40 points with no plans or ambitions beyond that. Unsurprisingly it all fell apart when the cracks eventually appeared with Pulis.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on August 09, 2023, 03:52:58 PM
Yes indeed Peace used us to make a fortune. I know there are those that will defend him and say that it was purely a business decision but to most, even some owners, a football club is much more than that. Peace grabbed the money and ran.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on August 09, 2023, 03:53:46 PM
Amen, never a truer word said. Peace should forever be remembered for what came after he left.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alwaysbilly on August 09, 2023, 04:14:54 PM
And didn’t peace put the club in safe hands and recommend we appoint Williams?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on August 09, 2023, 04:18:52 PM
The £3.7m loan JP took out of the club to enrich himself is the thing that galls me the most.

His salary was such that he didn't need to use the club's money (which otherwise would have been available for transfers in the summer of 2014) and he certainly could afford to repay it once he had pocketed his £200m.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on August 09, 2023, 04:53:54 PM
An interesting article, and proof at last that we were the first choice for Fosun. What might have been eh? And nice to see an owner with integrity in Thompson, unlike the ‘lifelong baggies fan’…..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on August 09, 2023, 07:23:52 PM
Ifs, buts and maybes.

Let's be honest if we were in the position Wolves were in right now we'd still be moaning.  ;D

I think for us to find a buyer in this climate we're going to have to fall a bit further unfortunately. We've just got to hope we can hold on similar to Blues have in recent years until someone comes along.

The positive is that the longer it goes on the less we will be valued and the more attractive we may appear. The negative is that we could end up with anyone with a bit of money buying us.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 09, 2023, 07:38:17 PM
An interesting article, and proof at last that we were the first choice for Fosun. What might have been eh? And nice to see an owner with integrity in Thompson, unlike the ‘lifelong baggies fan’…..

Not sure first choice is an accurate description.

There was an article written about the time of the acqisition which took a different view.

Allegedly Fosun were keen to extend their portfolio, & saw football as a potential market.
They weren't keen to get into club ownership, but saw opportunities in player trading.
The relationship with Mendes, was intended to be pivotal to the plan. Unfortunately the decision that player registrations could only be owned by football clubs put paid to the original plan. (Following the Tevez/Mascherano at WHU case).
As a consequence, Fosun put feelers out for a club. As the article says £200 million for a vehicle to buy & sell players is a lot less attractive than £30 million.

Just looked at WWFC accounts & over a 5 year period from 2016 to 2021 there intangible asset value increased from circa £8 million to circa £160 million.

At the same time, there's a significant debt to the owners of around £120 million.

Looks as though their starting to cash that in now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on August 09, 2023, 08:22:53 PM
Hopefully there are still guys out their looking to buy a football club.......anyone, please, anyone.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on August 10, 2023, 07:48:58 AM
SKY have a lot to answer for. They started this chain of events, where clubs started chasing the dream, with many spending beyond their means. Only mega rich owners can afford to 'play' with football clubs. 99% of clubs will not bring a return on an investors money. It's literally a play thing. As other owners have found out, and are now trying to recoup their money. Lai thought he could make a buck out of us and has come unstuck. Fosun are also realising its just a money pit. If the mega rich Arabs get bored with football, then several teams could come falling down like a pack of cards. Football in general needs a 'Reset'.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 10, 2023, 08:46:39 AM
I have said previously that you are a very lucky person if you make money as a football club owner
You may pay yourself a good salaryand you may get a dividend but when selling is a different ball game especially if you have personally plowed your own cash into it, its a mega rich persons plaything thats it
Nothing to do with Sky imo
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Barrington on August 10, 2023, 08:55:41 AM
The trouble is clubs spending way too much on transfer fees and wages. No-one is forcing them to do this. They do it speculatively to try to get into the Champions league etc but they have the choice not to do this. If the oil owned clubs want to break FFP and win hollow trophies then let them. Every club should just cut their cloth accordingly and not over-extend themselves on wages. Pretty simple really.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 10, 2023, 09:04:10 AM
The trouble is clubs spending way too much on transfer fees and wages. No-one is forcing them to do this. They do it speculatively to try to get into the Champions league etc but they have the choice not to do this. If the oil owned clubs want to break FFP and win hollow trophies then let them. Every club should just cut their cloth accordingly and not over-extend themselves on wages. Pretty simple really.

A total wage cap is the only way that will ever work.  It needn’t be a specific monetary limit but could be capped at say 75% of total income over an average of a 3 year cycle.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 10, 2023, 09:06:55 AM
A total wage cap is the only way that will ever work.  It needn’t be a specific monetary limit but could be capped at say 75% of total income over an average of a 3 year cycle.

The problem with a wage cap based on revenue is that it helps maintain the status quo.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 10, 2023, 09:08:10 AM
The trouble is clubs spending way too much on transfer fees and wages. No-one is forcing them to do this. They do it speculatively to try to get into the Champions league etc but they have the choice not to do this. If the oil owned clubs want to break FFP and win hollow trophies then let them. Every club should just cut their cloth accordingly and not over-extend themselves on wages. Pretty simple really.

then the fans would just accuse their clubs of "lacking ambition" and we'd hear a lot more of the "what's the point in just making up the numbers" type comments.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on August 10, 2023, 09:28:53 AM
I’m wondering whether ultimately a Super League is inevitable. For all but the top three or four clubs The Premier League is becoming irrelevant. Surely, fans of Man City etc. will tire of wins against the like of Luton and clubs like Everton will be bored of the battle to safely remain in mid table? I actually find the Championship more entertaining. Controversial but inevitable?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 10, 2023, 09:55:00 AM
Is the way forward being gobbled up by a bigger sport franchise which most probably will come from America?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 10, 2023, 12:56:37 PM
We need someone from the Emirate states
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MBWBA on August 10, 2023, 01:09:57 PM
Should have sold to the Americans that own Ipswich when they came wanting to buy us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 10, 2023, 02:05:32 PM
Chesnais buying a partial stake? Anyone heard anything?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 10, 2023, 02:12:55 PM
Chesnais buying a partial stake? Anyone heard anything?

On Birmingham Live
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 10, 2023, 02:24:03 PM

On Birmingham Live

have you got a link to the story? All I'm seeing is stuff from yesterday or earlier!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on August 10, 2023, 03:05:54 PM
SKY have a lot to answer for. They started this chain of events, where clubs started chasing the dream, with many spending beyond their means. Only mega rich owners can afford to 'play' with football clubs. 99% of clubs will not bring a return on an investors money. It's literally a play thing. As other owners have found out, and are now trying to recoup their money. Lai thought he could make a buck out of us and has come unstuck. Fosun are also realising its just a money pit. If the mega rich Arabs get bored with football, then several teams could come falling down like a pack of cards. Football in general needs a 'Reset'.
I think it was Jimmy Hill who started all this rubbish.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 10, 2023, 03:09:10 PM
I think it was Jimmy Hill who started all this rubbish.

it was in a way..... he helped abolish the £20 a week maximum wage.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 10, 2023, 03:19:12 PM
it was in a way..... he helped abolish the £20 a week maximum wage.
He was and I remember it well . He publicly stated that "Johnny Haynes is worth £100 per week" Johnny said i will have some of that thank you .................and so it began.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 10, 2023, 03:40:18 PM
I don't think we can blame Jimmy Hill for all this going on these days, all he was doing was trying to get players a fair wage as during the Summer they were getting little and at times nothing so had to get another job as well as playing the game. No disputing that it gave some of them a better living than the average bloke in the street but I doubt all players were earning anywhere near that much That was early 60's and I read somewhere only a few days ago that Haynes was still on £100 a week towards the end of his time at Fulham

All this is down to Sky who think they invented the game in 1992 and led individuals like Lai and other owners to clubs like us.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OhBilics on August 10, 2023, 04:02:21 PM
I don't think we can blame Jimmy Hill for all this going on these days, all he was doing was trying to get players a fair wage as during the Summer they were getting little and at times nothing
I think he was also involved in getting shirt sponsorship started. If my memory serves me correctly (and let's be honest, it usually doesn't!), he went on TV saying he'd rename Coventry to Coventry Asprin or some such if it didn't go through. No shirt sponsorship might not mean no Sky, but I imagine it's part of why they got involved.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 10, 2023, 04:45:11 PM
I think he was also involved in getting shirt sponsorship started. If my memory serves me correctly (and let's be honest, it usually doesn't!), he went on TV saying he'd rename Coventry to Coventry Asprin or some such if it didn't go through. No shirt sponsorship might not mean no Sky, but I imagine it's part of why they got involved.

I think Sky got involved more so for tv rights around the World, shirt sponsorship had been going for a few years beforehand. Not saying it may have not given them a few ideas.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on August 10, 2023, 05:18:03 PM
Chris Lepowski saying the talk of partial investment isnt good news.

Says WBA holdings have defauled on their loan from Warmfront Holdings and they
(Warmfront Holdings) are now looking to take shares instead so its not them actually investing anything, they just want a bit of the pie as we havent repaid them.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 10, 2023, 06:11:00 PM
This makes for painful reading, comments from wolves chairman:
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2023/08/09/jeff-shi-we-nearly-bought-the-west-brom-and-nuno-was-going-to-be-boss/

“I flew over here and had talks with Jeremy Peace [Albion’s chairman] but the deal failed because we thought the price was not right. It was £200million for a team that would find it very hard to stay up in the Premier League. You can pay £200m but you still have to find another £100m to buy players. When we spoke with West Brom I met Nuno [Espirito Santo] once in a restaurant to talk about the chance of taking him there. Jorge then said to us, ‘Jeff if you are talking with West Brom why aren’t you talking with other clubs?’ so I agreed and it went from there".

Jeremy Peace sold Albion for every penny he could get for himself with no commitments for any investment in the club. Compare that to Steve Morgan sold Wolves for £30m - the same price he paid to buy the club with a commitment Fosun would invest £100m into the club.

This quote from Jex Moxey is also revealing: "It’s always worth mentioning that we were never going to sell to anyone unless they were credible. There was a sense of responsibility among all of us and Steve, as the owner, had a strong professionalism about doing what was right. His reputation and the club’s reputation were too important to sell to someone who wasn’t going to help the club progress."

Lai is every inch Jeremy Peace's legacy. I think as a fanbase we have every right to be furious that our former chairman could not see past his bank balance. Not to mention that loan his took out against the club to allegedly fund him hoovering up shares that has never been explained.
But most wolves fans and lopetigu aren’t agreeing tonight are they ??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on August 10, 2023, 06:33:43 PM
Chris Lepowski saying the talk of partial investment isnt good news.

Says WBA holdings have defauled on their loan from Warmfront Holdings and they
(Warmfront Holdings) are now looking to take shares instead so its not them actually investing anything, they just want a bit of the pie as we havent repaid them.

It wouldn't surprise me if our brilliant former owner or his sister are behind Warmftont.

He's ready to pounce on a distressed business from within so he can shaft us all all over again.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 10, 2023, 06:36:00 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if our brilliant former owner or his sister are behind Warmftont.

He's ready to pounce on a distressed business from within so he can shaft us all all over again.

Director is listed as Alexander Hearn

 https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12111387/officers

Looks like they are just a company that look after other companies
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on August 10, 2023, 06:49:55 PM
Its a scam and we are utterly fecked.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on August 10, 2023, 07:01:23 PM
Director is listed as Alexander Hearn

 https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12111387/officers

Looks like they are just a company that look after other companies

https://www.warmfrontteam.co.uk/

https://www.warmfrontteam.co.uk/about/senior-management-team/54.htm

Seems like they are in the heating/building energy efficiency world. Somehow related to Ideal perhaps?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 10, 2023, 07:52:10 PM
https://www.warmfrontteam.co.uk/

https://www.warmfrontteam.co.uk/about/senior-management-team/54.htm

Seems like they are in the heating/building energy efficiency world. Somehow related to Ideal perhaps?

Not sure they are the same company as Warmfront Holdings, I did think they were at first.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/05585984

They were set up in 2005, Warmfront Holdings were set up in 2019
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on August 10, 2023, 08:09:57 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but can someone explain in simple terms what is going on. I am reading Different things regarding the French guy and that we are defaulting on something. Can someone explain please

Thanks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 10, 2023, 08:11:25 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but can someone explain in simple terms what is going on. I am reading Different things regarding the French guy and that we are defaulting on something. Can someone explain please

Thanks

Post earlier says that we have defaulted on a loan to Warmfront Holdings Limited according to CL
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 10, 2023, 08:41:29 PM
Evening,

If I can try to be of any help I will. Just a couple of things. There is no default on the Warmfront loan, however that £2m loan is now due in February 2024 and will be over £4m as we agreed to terms of 5% interest per MONTH. 79% APR. What we were intimating is that a partial sale, be it a minority investment, or potentially to offset an outstanding loan would be disastrous as it makes it even more difficult to achieve what we need, which is a full sale. I will post a tweet we compiled earlier on here.

I’ll try to ask any questions as honestly as I can.

Cheers

Ali
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 10, 2023, 08:45:26 PM
Evening,

If I can try to be of any help I will. Just a couple of things. There is no default on the Warmfront loan, however that £2m loan is now due in February 2024 and will be over £4m as we agreed to terms of 5% interest per MONTH. 79% APR. What we were intimating is that a partial sale, be it a minority investment, or potentially to offset an outstanding loan would be disastrous as it makes it even more difficult to achieve what we need, which is a full sale. I will post a tweet we compiled earlier on here.

I’ll try to ask any questions as honestly as I can.

Cheers

Ali

Thanks for clarifying
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 10, 2023, 08:46:14 PM
Evening,

If I can try to be of any help I will. Just a couple of things. There is no default on the Warmfront loan, however that £2m loan is now due in February 2024 and will be over £4m as we agreed to terms of 5% interest per MONTH. 79% APR. What we were intimating is that a partial sale, be it a minority investment, or potentially to offset an outstanding loan would be disastrous as it makes it even more difficult to achieve what we need, which is a full sale. I will post a tweet we compiled earlier on here.

I’ll try to ask any questions as honestly as I can.

Cheers

Ali

Is a partial sale close?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 10, 2023, 08:48:08 PM
Is a partial sale close?

We have to do everything we possibly can to try to stop it. It’s that important.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 10, 2023, 08:49:03 PM
🚨This is a bit long but it’s very important that people read and understand why a partial sale is not good🚨
 
With reference to a partial sale and why we believe it's not a good idea, let's break down what we see as the key points:

- Partial sale means current majority shareholder sells some shares, but retains control.
- Unlike Blues who had many different owners, we have one, Yunyi, controlled by Lai, owning 88%.

Questions arise regarding partial sale:

1. Who and why would anyone invest partially in Albion?
2. Is there a guarantee the club will receive the funds from a partial sale ?
3. Will potential buyers face a more complicated process? (yes, we think so)
4. Would funds from a partial sale create real impact? Yunyi considers 'market value offers' at £30m for full shares sale.

So, 10% (equivalent to £3m) from partial sale seems small, considering Yunyi's valuation.
A mere drop in the ocean.

🚨A minority stake sale also means no fit and proper persons test is needed as it’s less than threshold required🚨
 
#FullSaleOnly
#LaiOut
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 10, 2023, 09:00:03 PM
Why would the club get money if WBA holdings sell a percentage to settle the loan?

Holdings is not the club.

I don’t see a partial sale benefits any buyer. Taking 10% of us right now is useless in my opinion although I don’t think 10% is as low as £3m just yet. Didn’t A4A say it was £60m for all of it a few weeks ago? (I could be wrong but someone reported £60m)

At this current rate the value of the club is only likely to drop further. However I don’t think it stops any takeover as 77% from holdings is still a majority  stake.  Someone else holding 5%-10% now is an annoyance but they’ll be glad to get anything close to their money back as the value continues to plummet with lai.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 10, 2023, 09:02:13 PM
Evening,

If I can try to be of any help I will. Just a couple of things. There is no default on the Warmfront loan, however that £2m loan is now due in February 2024 and will be over £4m as we agreed to terms of 5% interest per MONTH. 79% APR. What we were intimating is that a partial sale, be it a minority investment, or potentially to offset an outstanding loan would be disastrous as it makes it even more difficult to achieve what we need, which is a full sale. I will post a tweet we compiled earlier on here.

I’ll try to ask any questions as honestly as I can.

Cheers

Ali

Oh and I’ll let you have one guess where the monies fro this particular loan ended up. I’ll give you a clue. W****m S***t. Via many other businesses.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 10, 2023, 09:03:12 PM
We have to do everything we possibly can to try to stop it. It’s that important.

Hopefully not the Egyptian guy. Are there parties looking for a full takeover?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 10, 2023, 09:30:47 PM
Warmfront seems to be what it says on the tin i.e. a company engaged in the heating industry. However WBA are listed on their website as an affiliate as are a Sports Technology firm Global Sports Data and Technology. Exactly how they come to have lent WBA holdings £2m at roughly 20% APR is not clear. If Holdings defaults and surrenders equity in WBA to clear the debt it further water downs Lai's holdings but it doesn't amount to a change of control  the £2m plus accrued interest equates to roughly 3.4% assuming a valuation of £60m.

It obviously complicates the sale but no more than the loan which is secured on Holdings. 

A full sale is plainly desirable all this does is further demonstrate that the whole sorry enterprise of Lai's ownership is built on sand and time is running out on it.

It ends one of two ways a sale or administration followed by a sale.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 10, 2023, 09:55:20 PM
Warmfront seems to be what it says on the tin i.e. a company engaged in the heating industry. However WBA are listed on their website as an affiliate as are a Sports Technology firm Global Sports Data and Technology. Exactly how they come to have lent WBA holdings £2m at roughly 20% APR is not clear. If Holdings defaults and surrenders equity in WBA to clear the debt it further water downs Lai's holdings but it doesn't amount to a change of control  the £2m plus accrued interest equates to roughly 3.4% assuming a valuation of £60m.

It obviously complicates the sale but no more than the loan which is secured on Holdings. 

A full sale is plainly desirable all this does is further demonstrate that the whole sorry enterprise of Lai's ownership is built on sand and time is running out on it.

It ends one of two ways a sale or administration followed by a sale.

I'm not sure they are the same company as Warmfront Holdings Ltd
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 10, 2023, 10:38:44 PM
I'm not sure they are the same company as Warmfront Holdings Ltd

They definitely are
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 10, 2023, 10:45:50 PM
Why would the club get money if WBA holdings sell a percentage to settle the loan?

Holdings is not the club.

I don’t see a partial sale benefits any buyer. Taking 10% of us right now is useless in my opinion although I don’t think 10% is as low as £3m just yet. Didn’t A4A say it was £60m for all of it a few weeks ago? (I could be wrong but someone reported £60m)

At this current rate the value of the club is only likely to drop further. However I don’t think it stops any takeover as 77% from holdings is still a majority  stake.  Someone else holding 5%-10% now is an annoyance but they’ll be glad to get anything close to their money back as the value continues to plummet with lai.


A4A was started by me, yes I did say that but that included the MSD debt. I’m hindsight I shouldn’t have said this as all that really matters is what Yunyi would take. The Holdings argument is very interesting, as that’s true. They’re not. However, Holdings bought club initially and transferred to Group. They also had a loan (interest free of course) of £187,000 in last years accounts, and have the same correspondence address (The Hawthorns). They are intrinsically linked and as Goldings has no assets you can guarantee who’s going to be left holding the baby.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 10, 2023, 11:18:02 PM
Post earlier says that we have defaulted on a loan to Warmfront Holdings Limited according to CL

We haven’t defaulted on anything. We didn’t borrow from Warmfront.  Holdings borrowed from Warmfront.  We are not Holdings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 10, 2023, 11:18:13 PM
They definitely are

Must be a maze to unravel all the links.

There is a Warmfront based in Brierley Hill and one in Hyde which seems to be a totally different company. Are they the same as there's no links between them other than the name.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 10, 2023, 11:18:59 PM
We haven’t defaulted on anything. We didn’t borrow from Warmfront.  Holdings borrowed from Warmfront.  We are not Holdings.

Don't shoot the messenger  :D

All I did was repost what someone had posted in reply to a question
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: MarkW on August 10, 2023, 11:21:02 PM
Oh and I’ll let you have one guess where the monies fro this particular loan ended up. I’ll give you a clue. W****m S***t. Via many other businesses.

Can I have another consonant, please, Rachel?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 10, 2023, 11:23:19 PM
A4A was started by me, yes I did say that but that included the MSD debt. I’m hindsight I shouldn’t have said this as all that really matters is what Yunyi would take. The Holdings argument is very interesting, as that’s true. They’re not. However, Holdings bought club initially and transferred to Group. They also had a loan (interest free of course) of £187,000 in last years accounts, and have the same correspondence address (The Hawthorns). They are intrinsically linked and as Goldings has no assets you can guarantee who’s going to be left holding the baby.

But Holdings does a very valuable asset - it owns 88.6% of Group.  It simply has no cash.  But when Holdings sells its shares in Group it will be able to sell all debts out of the sale proceeds. So no, I don’t think Group or Club will be left holding the baby.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 11, 2023, 08:14:50 AM
A4A was started by me, yes I did say that but that included the MSD debt. I’m hindsight I shouldn’t have said this as all that really matters is what Yunyi would take. The Holdings argument is very interesting, as that’s true. They’re not. However, Holdings bought club initially and transferred to Group. They also had a loan (interest free of course) of £187,000 in last years accounts, and have the same correspondence address (The Hawthorns). They are intrinsically linked and as Goldings has no assets you can guarantee who’s going to be left holding the baby.

Ali, I'm sorry, but I don't know what all this means.

West Bromwich Albion Group consists of West Bromwich Albion Holdings owned by Yunil (88%) and the minority shareholders represented by Shareholders for Albion (12%).

West Bromwich Albion Holdings is available for sale.

If Holdings has a value of say £60 million & Lai sold a portion of that, there  would be no advantage to seller or buyer.
What the club needs is a cash injection, so additional investment. If that were to happen, then the investor would want some control.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on August 11, 2023, 08:58:08 AM
This all going to end in tears, isn't it?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on August 11, 2023, 10:48:05 AM
This all going to end in tears, isn't it?

For the fans, yeah it looks that way.

Maybe I am being a bit over the top butI get the feeling there is a real chance we could be the first real "big" club to go to the wall if things don't change.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 11, 2023, 12:03:12 PM
For the fans, yeah it looks that way.

Maybe I am being a bit over the top butI get the feeling there is a real chance we could be the first real "big" club to go to the wall if things don't change.

The club has a philosophy of living within our means & minimum risk, so there's little danger of us going to the wall. It does mean though that we will not be in a position to compete at a very high level.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: robnewbold on August 11, 2023, 12:11:35 PM
The fact that we used to be 'big' and laughed at the Villa and screamed at the Dogs seems a lifetime away now.
 Short termism and a poo or bust strategy by owners and hench men have led us to were we are now, but then we all know that.
Unless we get a sensible buyer i do believe it is only a matter of time and a relatively short amount of time at that, before the dominos start falling.
The Club seems locked in a death spiral at the moment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 11, 2023, 12:38:36 PM
The club has a philosophy of living within our means & minimum risk, so there's little danger of us going to the wall. It does mean though that we will not be in a position to compete at a very high level.
agree that football club lives well in its means but owner is taking hard earned cash from club in loans and is refusing to pay they back .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 11, 2023, 01:27:03 PM
agree that football club lives well in its means but owner is taking hard earned cash from club in loans and is refusing to pay they back .

They’ll be repaid when the club is sold, which surely will be in the not too distant future.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 11, 2023, 04:19:55 PM
The problem for the club is although it has historically been conservatively run last two seasons it has been anything but and without an ownership willing or able to bankroll our current liabilities. We are reliant on commercial finance which is costing us £2m plus a year to bridge the gap between income and expenditure. Cash flow will become an increasingly pressing we let O'Shea go for less than the release clause because there was a chunk of cash up front.

There is plenty of evidence of the financial strain the club is under. The Wisdom Smart loan is guaranteed by Holdings but that is very much jam tomorrow and wholly dependent on a sale which is not imminent and in the mean time the club has little choice but to work within the financial constraints imposed on it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on August 13, 2023, 11:26:22 AM
The club has a philosophy of living within our means & minimum risk, so there's little danger of us going to the wall. It does mean though that we will not be in a position to compete at a very high level.

Agreed but the club arn’t just living within its means. They’ve also got to pay a fat loan with high interest back.

We could be the first club to go that actually hasn’t spent beyond’s it’s means and simply down to poor management.

I’d feel slightly better about the situation if we’d have bought top players in the last few years and won a cup or two but we’ve not even got that as an excuse.

I can’t begin to understand the situation and only base my opinion on the limited facts around.

So my question is, how serious is the situation and do my worries have some legitimacy to them?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on August 13, 2023, 11:37:01 AM
Agreed but the club arn’t just living within its means. They’ve also got to pay a fat loan with high interest back.

We could be the first club to go that actually hasn’t spent beyond’s it’s means and simply down to poor management.

I’d feel slightly better about the situation if we’d have bought top players in the last few years and won a cup or two but we’ve not even got that as an excuse.

I can’t begin to understand the situation and only base my opinion on the limited facts around.

So my question is, how serious is the situation and do my worries have some legitimacy to them?

The situation is very serious I’m only going off the same information as you but informed people seem to be suggesting the situation has got worse .

Perhaps the poster Sedgley Albion can advise further .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 13, 2023, 01:50:13 PM
Agreed but the club arn’t just living within its means. They’ve also got to pay a fat loan with high interest back.

We could be the first club to go that actually hasn’t spent beyond’s it’s means and simply down to poor management.

I’d feel slightly better about the situation if we’d have bought top players in the last few years and won a cup or two but we’ve not even got that as an excuse.

I can’t begin to understand the situation and only base my opinion on the limited facts around.

So my question is, how serious is the situation and do my worries have some legitimacy to them?

Businesses that go bust do so because they don't have enough assets to cover their debts.

We have players whose transfer value would cover the MED loan without having to sell the Hawthorns, so technically we're not going bust.

IMO, it's important to differentiate, if we're financially viable or if we're capable of competing at Championship level.

As things stand, I would say we'll continue to be financially viable, but the fans won't like it because we won't be able to afford to compete.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 13, 2023, 02:44:35 PM
Just a thought chaps,
Because the Hawthorns is a valuable thing for the area and not for sale as such, could the local council buy WBA for the community and we become a community project until a decent buyer arrives?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 13, 2023, 03:04:56 PM
Just a thought chaps,
Because the Hawthorns is a valuable thing for the area and not for sale as such, could the local council buy WBA for the community and we become a community project until a decent buyer arrives?

From what I've read online Sandwell council can't afford to repair the bogs in West Brom market. Buying West Bromwich Albion may prove beyond their means.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 13, 2023, 03:36:45 PM
Do any of the ITK posters on here know how much of the MSD loan money is going towards the training ground upgrades which were reported in the press a few days ago?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 13, 2023, 09:59:32 PM
Kieran Maguire

The £2m loan taken out by West Brom owner and business genius Guochuan Lai, which charges interest at 5% a month, will hit £10 million by March 2025 if it is not repaid...and his record for repaying loans is best described as 'Bobbins' #WBAFC
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on August 13, 2023, 10:18:48 PM
I’m totally confused with all these loans. For my understanding the club has a 20 million msd loan which it needs to pay back. Then lai owes the club 5 million. Then Peace loaned 5 million but Lai took the debt in the sale. Now there’s a new loan of 2 million which Lai has taken or club?

Lai is really getting close to losing it all if he don’t sell soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 13, 2023, 11:06:10 PM
Just a thought chaps,
Because the Hawthorns is a valuable thing for the area and not for sale as such, could the local council buy WBA for the community and we become a community project until a decent buyer arrives?

Keep that thought because it will never ever ever happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 13, 2023, 11:07:44 PM
Ali, I'm sorry, but I don't know what all this means.

West Bromwich Albion Group consists of West Bromwich Albion Holdings owned by Yunil (88%) and the minority shareholders represented by Shareholders for Albion (12%).

West Bromwich Albion Holdings is available for sale.

If Holdings has a value of say £60 million & Lai sold a portion of that, there  would be no advantage to seller or buyer.
What the club needs is a cash injection, so additional investment. If that were to happen, then the investor would want some control.

Not even an advantage if, for instance, the loan was used as a leverage to extort more shares in exchange for writing off the debt. Hearn knows he’s not getting his money, so next best option is shares in the club. Lai has already had the £2m don’t forget. Also what would happen if some more undesirables, like for example Kashkashy and Farnell (whose business partners with Bassini) joined together?

Obviously, I’m just speculating, but what if? Then Lai wins, the two mentioned win as they get an ‘in’ and Hearn wins because he wasn’t getting his £4m and knows it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 13, 2023, 11:08:14 PM
The club has a philosophy of living within our means & minimum risk, so there's little danger of us going to the wall. It does mean though that we will not be in a position to compete at a very high level.

You are so so far wrong it’s incredible
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on August 13, 2023, 11:08:26 PM
Don't know if true, but on a4a facebook page i read a post that said they knew the person behind warmfront, and he was a season ticket holder.

Any confirmation of this?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 13, 2023, 11:09:48 PM
The situation is very serious I’m only going off the same information as you but informed people seem to be suggesting the situation has got worse .

Perhaps the poster Sedgley Albion can advise further .

What I think could happen is this Warmfront guy Alex Hearn will be joining up with some others unsuitables (potentially like Farnell & Kashkashy) to use this to get equity of share in return for ripping up loan agreement.

Farnell and Kashkashy win as they get in through back door. No Fit and proper persons test either as it’s below minimum stake

Hearn wins as he gets bigger share

Lai wins as loan gets repaid

Only people that lose is the club as that £2m long gone.

We have worked hard to prove this but we can’t get it fully verified, but it’s that important I’m telling you folks. I can’t publicly as I can’t risk a libel case. But that’s what I think could happen.

Which is why we tried to do something yesterday
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 13, 2023, 11:11:00 PM
Don't know if true, but on a4a facebook page i read a post that said they knew the person behind warmfront, and he was a season ticket holder.

Any confirmation of this?

A season ticket holder yes. At Aston Villa. And no, I’m not joking.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Mo on August 13, 2023, 11:25:55 PM
What I think could happen is this Warmfront guy Alex Hearn will be joining up with some others unsuitables (potentially like Farnell & Kashkashy) to use this to get equity of share in return for ripping up loan agreement.

Farnell and Kashkashy win as they get in through back door. No Fit and proper persons test either as it’s below minimum stake

Hearn wins as he gets bigger share

Lai wins as loan gets repaying

Only people that lose is the club as that £2m long gone.

We have worked hard to prove this but we can’t get it fully verified, but it’s that important I’m telling you folks. I can’t publicly as I can’t risk a libel case. But that’s what I think could happen.

Which is why we tried to do something yesterday

Thank you this is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 14, 2023, 02:47:35 AM
The Warmfront loan is an absolute doozy. The default interest rate is 5% per month (roughly equivalent of 75% apr) at that rate of accrual the value of Lai's shares are exceeded by the interest payments somewhere around year 4 and it needs to be remembered the original loan was only for £2m.

Fortunately for the day to day operation of the club it's assets are ring fenced by the charge on them by the MSD loan. So Lai cannot access them to repay the Warmfront loan. However the person who controls the loan in effect controls the club assuming Lai is not in a position to repay it (which seems to be the case)

When the loan is called in the club will have been sold for £2m plus a write off of interest which never was going to be paid. When the shareholding changes hands the persons concerned will be subject to EFL approval but not until then because they don't actually control the club.

The only route out of this for Lai is either he raises funds to repay Warmfront or the club is promoted this year. At that point the MSD loan could be settled and Lai could raid the club's coffers to repay the Warmfront loan which at the start of next season will have grown to over £6m. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: GlenGrant on August 14, 2023, 06:39:52 AM
Will Lai sell a business that is providing him and his Chinese associates handsome salaries every week. Loans and lump sums at regular opportunities.
Will Lai sell up losing a large sum of his initial investment.
Will any new owner take on Lai's debts.
Will any potential new owner pay Lai's asking price.
No no no no no.
So to service out debts and stay afloat more assets will have to be sold and continue to be sold. Until we have nothing left.
We're looking at Administration sooner or later. As for being sold the longer we continue to build up debts the tougher it gets to find a buyer. Currently we owe £32million and are losing £30million a year on operating costs. It doesn't take a genius to reach a simple conclusion we will have serious cashflow problems  very soon.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 14, 2023, 07:49:18 AM
What I think could happen is this Warmfront guy Alex Hearn will be joining up with some others unsuitables (potentially like Farnell & Kashkashy) to use this to get equity of share in return for ripping up loan agreement.

Farnell and Kashkashy win as they get in through back door. No Fit and proper persons test either as it’s below minimum stake

Hearn wins as he gets bigger share

Lai wins as loan gets repaid

Only people that lose is the club as that £2m long gone.

We have worked hard to prove this but we can’t get it fully verified, but it’s that important I’m telling you folks. I can’t publicly as I can’t risk a libel case. But that’s what I think could happen.

Which is why we tried to do something yesterday

This Warmfront Alex Hearn or is there another right Alec out there?

'Alex is widely recognised as a serial entrepreneur, with business interests in professional football, leisure and tourism and overseas property developments'

https://www.warmfrontteam.co.uk/about/senior-management-team/54.htm

Edit: managed a quick look at the website and we are listed as one of their 'partners'.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 09:56:46 AM
What I think could happen is this Warmfront guy Alex Hearn will be joining up with some others unsuitables (potentially like Farnell & Kashkashy) to use this to get equity of share in return for ripping up loan agreement.

Farnell and Kashkashy win as they get in through back door. No Fit and proper persons test either as it’s below minimum stake

Hearn wins as he gets bigger share

Lai wins as loan gets repaid

Only people that lose is the club as that £2m long gone.

We have worked hard to prove this but we can’t get it fully verified, but it’s that important I’m telling you folks. I can’t publicly as I can’t risk a libel case. But that’s what I think could happen.

Which is why we tried to do something yesterday

Not correct.  The club does NOT lose that £2m as it’s not a club loan and never was!  The £2m didn’t come out of the club in the first place - it was borrowed by Holdings from Warmfront.  The only loser is Yunyai whose shareholding in Holdings will have been reduced if the loan converts until equity.

“Follow the money” is always a useful starting point.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 10:06:32 AM
The Warmfront loan is an absolute doozy. The default interest rate is 5% per month (roughly equivalent of 75% apr) at that rate of accrual the value of Lai's shares are exceeded by the interest payments somewhere around year 4 and it needs to be remembered the original loan was only for £2m.

Fortunately for the day to day operation of the club it's assets are ring fenced by the charge on them by the MSD loan. So Lai cannot access them to repay the Warmfront loan. However the person who controls the loan in effect controls the club assuming Lai is not in a position to repay it (which seems to be the case)

When the loan is called in the club will have been sold for £2m plus a write off of interest which never was going to be paid. When the shareholding changes hands the persons concerned will be subject to EFL approval but not until then because they don't actually control the club.

The only route out of this for Lai is either he raises funds to repay Warmfront or the club is promoted this year. At that point the MSD loan could be settled and Lai could raid the club's coffers to repay the Warmfront loan which at the start of next season will have grown to over £6m.

That’s not correct.  The loan/equity conversion rate is/was only 2.35% of the issued share capital of Holdings. That conversation rate will have increased beyond 2.35% (I’ve read to just less 10% which might seem reasonable) but not beyond that.   There’s absolutely no chance that Yunyai will have put themselves at risk of selling their entire investment for £2m plus the loan write-off. 

The audited accounts signed in March 2023 only refer to the 2.35% conversion rate, and the Warmfront loan was apparently already in default by then, so no new conversion rate had been agreed by end of March otherwise it would have had to be noted as a post-balance sheet event.  Also, any significant change of UBO would be a trigger event under the MSD loan.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on August 14, 2023, 10:10:23 AM
So we are still well in the chyte it’s just the depth that may have varied !!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 10:10:54 AM
Will Lai sell a business that is providing him and his Chinese associates handsome salaries every week. Loans and lump sums at regular opportunities.
Will Lai sell up losing a large sum of his initial investment.
Will any new owner take on Lai's debts.
Will any potential new owner pay Lai's asking price.
No no no no no.
So to service out debts and stay afloat more assets will have to be sold and continue to be sold. Until we have nothing left.
We're looking at Administration sooner or later. As for being sold the longer we continue to build up debts the tougher it gets to find a buyer. Currently we owe £32million and are losing £30million a year on operating costs. It doesn't take a genius to reach a simple conclusion we will have serious cashflow problems  very soon.

There are absolutely no loans or lump sums being taken out at regular opportunities. Completely impossible under the terms of the MSD loan. Nothing can leave the club except for bona fide club operations.  The two Chinese directors are employed and being paid for their roles.  I don’t think Lai is likely to be receiving much if indeed anything as he’s hardly “executive”.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 10:18:47 AM
naughty word right off. No way???

Which cess pits has lai been looking for finance from?

I appreciate everything you do mate, but that information has made me physically sick.

Have you thought of looking for wba fans willing to fund a takeover?

In the olden days there were rumours of the Richardson brothers being wba fc fans.

This vile naughty boy has overpaid for his 2.35% imo.

That maguire £35m valuation, which looks to me as based on the Derby sale is more realistic than £60m.

Incomparable with Derby.  They had massive debts (they owed just under £200m to Mel Morris and had lots of other debts) and didn’t even own their own ground. 

We still have a positive balance sheet rather than a negative one of well over £200m which Derby had).
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 14, 2023, 10:29:45 AM
Not correct.  The club does NOT lose that £2m as it’s not a club loan and never was!  The £2m didn’t come out of the club in the first place - it was borrowed by Holdings from Warmfront.  The only loser is Yunyai whose shareholding in Holdings will have been reduced if the loan converts until equity.

“Follow the money” is always a useful starting point.

Any idea why Warmfront have the West Bromwich Albion club logo on the named partner list of their website instead of Yunyai? For the record I am not being confrontational, I just don't understand how they're linked to the club (Group) when it's supposed to be Yunyai's (Holding's) debt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 14, 2023, 10:36:59 AM
That’s not correct.  The loan/equity conversion rate is/was only 2.35% of the issued share capital of Holdings. That conversation rate will have increased beyond 2.35% (I’ve read to just less 10% which might seem reasonable) but not beyond that.   There’s absolutely no chance that Yunyai will have put themselves at risk of selling their entire investment for £2m plus the loan write-off. 

The audited accounts signed in March 2023 only refer to the 2.35% conversion rate, and the Warmfront loan was apparently already in default by then, so no new conversion rate had been agreed by end of March otherwise it would have had to be noted as a post-balance sheet event.  Also, any significant change of UBO would be a trigger event under the MSD loan.
Can't copy & paste from a PDF, but in the accounts for Holdings it does say that the Warmfront loan has a default interest of 5% per month.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 10:40:14 AM
Any idea why Warmfront have the West Bromwich Albion club logo on the named partner list of their website instead of Yunyai? For the record I am not being confrontational, I just don't understand how they're linked to the club (Group) when it's supposed to be Yunyai's (Holding's) debt.

Nope - no idea other than that Lai probably good them they could as part of their loan deal.  As we know, Lai doesn’t pay much attention to detailed legal correctness !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggies_24 on August 14, 2023, 10:41:04 AM
I think this will drag on for another year or so (basically as close to the administrators coming in) there is absolutely no way anyone is paying £60m for the club with the various debts hanging over the clubs head, they would have to invest roughly £100m to get the club back onto the straight & narrow.

Lai is going to hold out until the very last minute, the club will continue to suffer & no doubt Carlos walks, who know what undesirables will be let through the back door in that time also, It’s a real mess.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 10:44:44 AM
Can't copy & paste from a PDF, but in the accounts for Holdings it does say that the Warmfront loan has a default interest of 5% per month.

That’s correct.  The initial interest rate was 0.3% per month, with the default rate of 5% per month now applying.

The reference to 2.35% is the percentage of ownership that Warmfront receive in West Bromwich Albion Holdings Limited if the latter defaulted on the initial loan repayment date.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 10:49:58 AM
I think this will drag on for another year or so (basically as close to the administrators coming in) there is absolutely no way anyone is paying £60m for the club with the various debts hanging over the clubs head, they would have to invest roughly £100m to get the club back onto the straight & narrow.

Lai is going to hold out until the very last minute, the club will continue to suffer & no doubt Carlos walks, who know what undesirables will be let through the back door in that time also, It’s a real mess.

Sorry - that doesn’t stack up.  What “various debts” are you referring to?  The only relevant one is the MSD £20m which seemingly hasn’t been spent yet (unspent funds still will sit as an asset on the balance sheet).  The other debts are trade creditors (transfer fees owed) which will be paid as they fall due (using the £20m as necessary) and from the Dara and other expected player sales.

We have a positive balance sheet and we own the ground.  Somewhere around £50m is probably about right.  We aren’t a hugely insolvent basket case financially - we are just low on cash flow.  Player sales will sort that.

Lai will be pushing very hard now for a sale.  I share your concern that new owners might not be any better and might even be worse…

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 12:04:46 PM
Just a few of things on this

1) The only relevant one is the MSD £20m which seemingly hasn’t been spent yet

What is this based on? Being as it was communicated the loan was taken out to meet day to day running costs, would have to imagine some % of this has been spent by now

2) (unspent funds still will sit as an asset on the balance sheet)

A totally unspent and unrepaid loan has 0 net effect on the balance sheet as you're increasing cash at bank (debtor), and increasing loan liability (creditor) by the same amount  (ignoring interest for simplicity)

3) You brought up player sales/purchases

Our most recent filed accounts made up to 30 June 22 just as an fyi had;

Amounts still due from player sales = £8.5 million
Amounts still due from player purchases = £21.4 million

1. Some of it may well have been, but it’s intended to see us through this season if we don’t manage player sales.  We’ve sold Dara so that helps.  I have no reason to think that much of it will have been used so far.  Remember that the EFL requires clubs to confirm that they have sufficient funding for the season ahead.  The £20m loan is intended for that.

2. Correct, other than the big difference in interest rate between what’s earned on deposit and what’s payable on the drawndown but so far unused loan.

3. Indeed.  These are already factored into the cash flow forecast when taking the £20m loan. 

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 14, 2023, 12:44:04 PM
That’s not correct.  The loan/equity conversion rate is/was only 2.35% of the issued share capital of Holdings. That conversation rate will have increased beyond 2.35% (I’ve read to just less 10% which might seem reasonable) but not beyond that.   There’s absolutely no chance that Yunyai will have put themselves at risk of selling their entire investment for £2m plus the loan write-off. 

The audited accounts signed in March 2023 only refer to the 2.35% conversion rate, and the Warmfront loan was apparently already in default by then, so no new conversion rate had been agreed by end of March otherwise it would have had to be noted as a post-balance sheet event.  Also, any significant change of UBO would be a trigger event under the MSD loan.

Sorry to be a pain OB, but I'm trying to get my head round this loan to equity conversion rate.
Does it mean that each £100 of debt can be redeemed for £2.35 worth of shares - in Holdings, not Group -  at the share price when the loan deal was struck?
Or
Does it mean that the £2M loan can be redeemed for 2.35% of WBA Holdings shares rising proportionally as the interest  on hte loan increases the amount to repay?

Maybe it nets out as roughly same thing?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 14, 2023, 12:56:57 PM
Sorry to be a pain OB, but I'm trying to get my head round this loan to equity conversion rate.
Does it mean that each £100 of debt can be redeemed for £2.35 worth of shares - in Holdings, not Group -  at the share price when the loan deal was struck?
Or
Does it mean that the £2M loan can be redeemed for 2.35% of WBA Holdings shares rising proportionally as the interest  on hte loan increases the amount to repay?

Maybe it nets out as roughly same thing?

That's an interesting observation, asking from another angle.......
Is the 5% per month interest on the £2 million or is it on the 2.35%? So after 12 months of default, the share becomes 4.22%?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 14, 2023, 01:13:35 PM
Holdings has no assets other than the Yunyai shareholding in the club.

The initial loan was taken out at an effective annual rate of 20% but with a default annual interest rate of 75%. If the borrower does not pay the initial loan plus interest then it moves to the default rate. The loan was secured at a conversion rate of 2.35% (an implied valuation of £85m).

At the default rate the balance outstanding doubles roughly every 14 months. Even if the value of the underlying equity was stable the loan very quickly exceeds the total value of the assets. In a situation where the value of equity is falling, Yunyai are very quickly wiped out.

If Lai and associates could settle the £2m plus interest they would have  avoided the living hell of 5% per month interest. They didn’t so therefore it is reasonable to assume they can’t settle a far bigger sum now or in the future. 

Fairly quickly they will be in a position of selling and handing over the bulk of the funds to Warmfront. At what point do Warmfron pull the plug on the loan? What is the implication for the club if Holdings goes into administration?  As for the Wisdom Smart Loan loan being guaranteed by holdings and therefore returnable when Holdings is sold, not much use if holdings has been sold largely to pay Warmfront.

I cannot be sanguine about this position we are rapidly falling into a situation where we attract the absolute worst type of ownership imaginable e.g. Farnell and his rag bag of associates.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on August 14, 2023, 01:48:01 PM
Not sure if this is the same issue as the recent days  owner rumours but it also comes back to Lai and the ownership.

I was told yesterday that our playing budget that was agreed the end of last season has changed since middle of July, much to Carlos disgust.

Apparently we had a budget to work too and a percentage from wages freed up from sales / loans would be additional to that (i assume that means O'shea, Grant, Ashworth, Button and Faal) Carlos was quite happy to work with that but something has changed, it would seem we dont have as much as first agreed and also the percentage from outgoing business has dropped alot.

There were concerns weeks ago as we had agreed a deal with a centre half but took ages to complete due to us delaying and he went elsewhere, i am not sure if thats why Pieters was then resigned instead.

We are also shopping in a different loan and free market than we were six weeks ago, clubs usually want a loan fee and contribution to the players wages, we can barely afford most loan fees and are offering a very small contribution to the players wages so most clubs arent interested in doing business with us.

We got Sarimento because we have agreed to plenty of game time and as we did well for them in regards to Matt Clarke (who got sold for nearly 3m on the back of his spell with us as he hardly played for Brighton, and us buying Moloumby) they have been generous in terms of what we are paying for Jeremy.

Maja is supposedly on quite a low wage considering his age, pedigree and being on a feee and they know we can probably sell him on for a fee at a later date.

But those two signings along with the budget cuts have left us very very short and we will be calling in favours and goodwill for further signings, we apparently will sign two more but its what clubs help us, of course it may change and more significant wages are freed up from future sales but it wont be anything major based on past deals.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 01:50:51 PM
Sorry to be a pain OB, but I'm trying to get my head round this loan to equity conversion rate.
Does it mean that each £100 of debt can be redeemed for £2.35 worth of shares - in Holdings, not Group -  at the share price when the loan deal was struck?
Or
Does it mean that the £2M loan can be redeemed for 2.35% of WBA Holdings shares rising proportionally as the interest  on hte loan increases the amount to repay?

Maybe it nets out as roughly same thing?

Good question - it depends on what they’ve negotiated between them
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 01:59:32 PM
Holdings has no assets other than the Yunyai shareholding in the club.

The initial loan was taken out at an effective annual rate of 20% but with a default annual interest rate of 75%. If the borrower does not pay the initial loan plus interest then it moves to the default rate. The loan was secured at a conversion rate of 2.35% (an implied valuation of £85m).

At the default rate the balance outstanding doubles roughly every 14 months. Even if the value of the underlying equity was stable the loan very quickly exceeds the total value of the assets. In a situation where the value of equity is falling, Yunyai are very quickly wiped out.

If Lai and associates could settle the £2m plus interest they would have  avoided the living hell of 5% per month interest. They didn’t so therefore it is reasonable to assume they can’t settle a far bigger sum now or in the future. 

Fairly quickly they will be in a position of selling and handing over the bulk of the funds to Warmfront. At what point do Warmfron pull the plug on the loan? What is the implication for the club if Holdings goes into administration?  As for the Wisdom Smart Loan loan being guaranteed by holdings and therefore returnable when Holdings is sold, not much use if holdings has been sold largely to pay Warmfront.

I cannot be sanguine about this position we are rapidly falling into a situation where we attract the absolute worst type of ownership imaginable e.g. Farnell and his rag bag of associates.

I follow your logic but a few queries and comments:

1. When was the initial loan at a rate of 20%?  Wasn’t it 0.3% per month?

2.  At that rate of compound interest, Yunyai would refinance elsewhere at whatever rate is possible without risking losing a much bigger percentage of their shareholding.  They may be idiots but maybe not complete imbeciles!

3. I doubt they’ll ever get beyond the 10% of equity level.  Why not? Because then the EFL will have to approve Warmfront & Co, and because Yunyai will have done everything possible to sell by then.

4. The shareholding owned by Holdings, even a year from now with no progress, is unlikely to be worth less than £30m.  Even in administration that sort of price would be obtained because the club has only modest debt.  Therefore Holdings would probably get £27m (gross) in a forced sale - enough to pay Holdings’ debts including the Warmfront loan (plus interest) and the Wisdom Smart guaranteed loan.  But it may leave very little left for Yunyai - hence they’ll sell before then. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 14, 2023, 02:44:59 PM
Sorry my bad on the initial APR something like 3%.

 However if you are looking for a test of imbecility defaulting on the loan in the first place if alternatives are available is wholly adequate in my view. Therefore I am assuming cash or refinancing is not readily available because they would have pulled that lever before now.

The debt will eventually compound to a value of Holdings but long before that Warm Front have effective control because were the loan to be called in there is no way of repaying it.

This should prompt a sale but the problem is it should have done so already. That means either there just aren’t buyers for a slightly battered Championship club and or the owners' demands are still unreasonable. Another year in the Championship and another year closer to the MSD debt being repaid or refinanced isn’t going to make the club anymore valuable.

None of this should blow back into the Club itself but my fear is that should the situation in Holdings look increasingly unstable that might prompt MSD to pull the plug on the loan.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 03:02:44 PM
Sorry my bad on the initial APR something like 3%.

 However if you are looking for a test of imbecility defaulting on the loan in the first place if alternatives are available is wholly adequate in my view. Therefore I am assuming cash or refinancing is not readily available because they would have pulled that lever before now.

The debt will eventually compound to a value of Holdings but long before that Warm Front have effective control because were the loan to be called in there is no way of repaying it.

This should prompt a sale but the problem is it should have done so already. That means either there just aren’t buyers for a slightly battered Championship club and or the owners' demands are still unreasonable. Another year in the Championship and another year closer to the MSD debt being repaid or refinanced isn’t going to make the club anymore valuable.

None of this should blow back into the Club itself but my fear is that should the situation in Holdings look increasingly unstable that might prompt MSD to pull the plug on the loan.

I’m sure it’s because their demands have been unreasonable to date.  That is inevitably going to change.  But I’m not sure that MSD will be too concerned about what happens up at Holdings level as it doesn’t impact on MSD’s security.  MSD might however be concerned about a material change of ownership, which the loan terms would enable them to take a view on triggering a repayment demand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mulliganstired on August 14, 2023, 03:55:31 PM
The problem is that where millions are involved it becomes worth paying lawyers and accountants hundreds of thousands to find ways of moving money around in "creative" but legal ways that no-one else really understands.  I worry that this is happening to us under the radar.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 14, 2023, 04:12:49 PM
If someone whose owed money by us calls that loan in and we can't pay it, we go bust dont we?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 04:31:52 PM
The problem is that where millions are involved it becomes worth paying lawyers and accountants hundreds of thousands to find ways of moving money around in "creative" but legal ways that no-one else really understands.  I worry that this is happening to us under the radar.

I don’t.  But I did until the MSD loan!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on August 14, 2023, 05:45:51 PM
Can somebody summarise the last few pages of info in massive layman’s terms as I have I kind of blindness to this kind of thing.

Not as simple as “we’re fudged” as I’d like to have a basic grasp of what is going on 🤣
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on August 14, 2023, 05:49:42 PM
Can somebody summarise the last few pages of info in massive layman’s terms as I have I kind of blindness to this kind of thing.

Not as simple as “we’re fudged” as I’d like to have a basic grasp of what is going on 🤣






I will second that. I haven’t a clue what’s going on. Just reading about blues and thier takeover leaves me as jealous as hell. Can someone please give me a nugget of confidence to tell me the Chinese will soon be gone and we’ll have someone in who actually talk to us let alone invest etc
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on August 14, 2023, 06:38:11 PM
Can someone clue me in here? The MSD loan are repayments being made every year or  is the full amount including interest being paid after 4 years?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on August 14, 2023, 08:47:18 PM
Not sure where to post this so I’m popping it here as it’s to do with owners
Has anyone else watched the Burnley documentary?
I’m not sure how much of it was done for the cameras but they are very hands on a complete opposite to our useless bunch
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 14, 2023, 08:48:31 PM
An Amazon series about us could only be called 'Lai - Nothing and nothing'
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 14, 2023, 10:14:36 PM
There the truth the who truth then theres Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 14, 2023, 10:21:56 PM
Not correct.  The club does NOT lose that £2m as it’s not a club loan and never was!  The £2m didn’t come out of the club in the first place - it was borrowed by Holdings from Warmfront.  The only loser is Yunyai whose shareholding in Holdings will have been reduced if the loan converts until equity.

“Follow the money” is always a useful starting point.

Ok then. I bow to your far superior knowledge, you know far more than me, 3 forensic accountants, 2 lawyers, S4A and the leading football finance expert in the country. Thank goodness you are right and everything is going to be just fine. Phew, I was panicking. Clearly no need too.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 10:41:27 PM
Ok then. I bow to your far superior knowledge, you know far more than me, 3 forensic accountants, 2 lawyers, S4A and the leading football finance expert in the country. Thank goodness you are right and everything is going to be just fine. Phew, I was panicking. Clearly no need too.

Some of what is being stated by several of them is often factually incorrect on quite a regular basis.    Simple as that.  They often get it only 90% right and the other 10% is key.  As you know, I follow it extremely closely. The facts are the facts and most of them are not especially complex when you follow it very closely.  Some of these so-called experts only dip in and out when asked for their comments.

Company law and interpreting audited accounts is not rocket science (I’ve been doing it professionally for 40 years). 

You’re obviously entitled to your view.  Sarcasm is unnecessary. I will continue to correct inaccurate comments which are made by those who haven’t quite got it right.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 14, 2023, 10:47:49 PM
Some of what is being stated by several of them is often factually incorrect on quite a regular basis.    Simple as that.  They often get it only 90% right and the other 10% is key.  As you know, I follow it extremely closely. The facts are the facts and most of them are not especially complex when you follow it very closely.  Some of these so-called experts only dip in and out when asked for their comments.

Company law and interpreting audited accounts is not rocket science (I’ve been doing it professionally for 40 years). 

You’re obviously entitled to your view.  Sarcasm is unnecessary. I will continue to correct inaccurate comments which are made by those who haven’t quite got it right.

Dipping in and out? What makes you think these people do that, I respect you have experience in company law. Can I ask then, what will happen if/when Holdings default on the loan?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 14, 2023, 11:48:03 PM
Dipping in and out? What makes you think these people do that, I respect you have experience in company law. Can I ask then, what will happen if/when Holdings default on the loan?

Some of them definitely do that.  Kieran Maguire for example follows every club. He’s not as close to the finer detail as some  of us are on here.  I’ve seen him on Twitter being corrected re the loans.

What will happen if/when Holdings defaults on the loan?  We can only guess because the terms of any private agreement between Holdings and Warmfront are exactly that - private - until they are made public which won’t be until either the default actually happens or the audited accounts are published in March next year.

But it is hard to see anything other than Warmfront exercising its security and converting the loan to anywhere between a 2.35% and 9.9% shareholding in Holdings, which doesn’t affect anything at group or club level.  That percentage will depend on what they have negotiated after the initial default.  I don’t think Warmfront will want to own more than 10% as they’d have to go through the EFL owners test.  What does that change?  Nothing at all on the face of it - Yunyai will simply have diluted its ownership of Holdings.

However, there is a risk that Holdings may offer Warmfront to swap shares in itself for shares in Group, which could mean that Warmfront might then own around 9.9% of Group.  It’s possible - if they’ve agreed such a deal between them.  That possibly makes a sale of the club a bit more complicated because a buyer might then only be able to purchase around 79% rather than nearly 89%. 

Until we know exactly what deal has been struck between lender and borrower it’s impossible to be more definitive.  All of us can only be guessing until hard facts are known.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 15, 2023, 07:53:42 AM
I have been a member of this forum for a number of years now & one thing I've learned is to never underestimate the knowlege & experience of fellow members.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 15, 2023, 08:14:08 AM

However, there is a risk that Holdings may offer Warmfront to swap shares in itself for shares in Group, which could mean that Warmfront might then own around 9.9% of Group.  It’s possible - if they’ve agreed such a deal between them.  That possibly makes a sale of the club a bit more complicated because a buyer might then only be able to purchase around 79% rather than nearly 89%. 

And I assume this is the reason as to why AFA, S4A are championing a full sale..
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on August 15, 2023, 08:33:15 AM
Birmingham Mail reports:

It's understood that while the interest rate will continue to pile up in the period of time that it isn't repaid, the 2.35% is only secured against the original £2m sum borrowed by Lai through Holdings.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 15, 2023, 09:25:10 AM
And I assume this is the reason as to why AFA, S4A are championing a full sale..

Also, if there’s one thing worse than Yunyai’s ownership, it’s another charlatan party being a significant minority shareholder and the risk of shareholder squabbles between them.  It could get very messy.  Best avoided. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 15, 2023, 10:36:47 AM
Birmingham Mail reports:

It's understood that while the interest rate will continue to pile up in the period of time that it isn't repaid, the 2.35% is only secured against the original £2m sum borrowed by Lai through Holdings.

Think I'd be careful of reports from media, bear in mind these are specialists in reporting sport not finance. Almost all of their information is second hand.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on August 15, 2023, 11:20:07 AM
Think I'd be careful of reports from media, bear in mind these are specialists in reporting sport not finance. Almost all of their information is second hand.

That's the media for you. Always dipping in and out.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 15, 2023, 06:14:38 PM
Some of them definitely do that.  Kieran Maguire for example follows every club. He’s not as close to the finer detail as some  of us are on here.  I’ve seen him on Twitter being corrected re the loans.

What will happen if/when Holdings defaults on the loan?  We can only guess because the terms of any private agreement between Holdings and Warmfront are exactly that - private - until they are made public which won’t be until either the default actually happens or the audited accounts are published in March next year.

But it is hard to see anything other than Warmfront exercising its security and converting the loan to anywhere between a 2.35% and 9.9% shareholding in Holdings, which doesn’t affect anything at group or club level.  That percentage will depend on what they have negotiated after the initial default.  I don’t think Warmfront will want to own more than 10% as they’d have to go through the EFL owners test.  What does that change?  Nothing at all on the face of it - Yunyai will simply have diluted its ownership of Holdings.

However, there is a risk that Holdings may offer Warmfront to swap shares in itself for shares in Group, which could mean that Warmfront might then own around 9.9% of Group.  It’s possible - if they’ve agreed such a deal between them.  That possibly makes a sale of the club a bit more complicated because a buyer might then only be able to purchase around 79% rather than nearly 89%. 

Until we know exactly what deal has been struck between lender and borrower it’s impossible to be more definitive.  All of us can only be guessing until hard facts are known.

There has been a lot of discussion regarding Warmfront Holdings the past few days, mainly started from us. So I’m sharing this with you to try to explain why it’s so key and important.

Here’s why it’s clear to me if I were Hearn I’d be eager to restructure the loan deal, even if it wasn’t anything to do with other desirables.

Ok bear with, I’ll try to break down.

His debt in Feb will be over £4m OR 2.35% of holdings shares.

That ultimately means his shares are 88.6% of group. (S4A owns rest)

So, if the clubs market value is to be believed, Yunyi are willing to accept £30m

This means that the value of those shares based on this figure is £624,630.

(30m / 2.35% / 88.6%)

The share is a fixed amount, doesn’t rise.

So if you were Hearn, surely you would look at the likelihood that you are not going to get the money back, and say to the person you lent it to you need a bigger percentage of shares to signify the drop in value from when you loaned the money. As he’s defaulted, he could use this as a negotiating tactic. Preferably in club (I’m pretty sure Hearn thinks it’s club already - hence ‘affiliate’ on their website)

If I were him I’d be asking 15% of club shares (not Holdings) = £4.5m

However, this will not work for Lai, as he still needs to retain 75% to do what he wants (15% would take him to 73.66%) Therefore I’d expect there will be an attempt to do a deal at around 12% in exchange for ripping loan agreement up.

That’s why I think it’s so relevant. We could be having a person/s that will own a share of our football club only because our owner has defaulted on a loan. Hardly a commitment to make our club better that is it?

The problem is though, the club won’t have a clue if/when they’re negotiating as all Directors of Group and Holdings are all Chinese. An absolute disgrace the EFL allow this to happen
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 15, 2023, 06:29:11 PM
If Warmfront lent £2m on the basis it’s a secured against a fixed 2.35% without other provisions,  I don’t see how he can just renegotiate. It would need certain conditions to establish how the percentage would be calculated if value dropped, such as by angreed  independent specialists. Same as if the value had gone up, Lai couldn’t just give a lower percentage. .  The courts wouldn’t entertain a finger in the air claim on higher percentages based on my knowledge of contract law and the minimum requirements of a valid contract. This is why MSD have secured on assets, they are more secure. You need certainty of terms in a contract.

If it’s is true it’s a fixed 2.35%, Warmfront Gambled stupidly by the looks of it, and I’m afraid they lost. Lai has them by the balls as far as I can tell
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on August 15, 2023, 07:04:26 PM
As above, the loan is secured against 2.35% of shares. So either Lai pays the loan or warmfront gain 2.35%. Why would Lai offer more than 2.35%? I imagine warmfront will just let the interest build so a potential new owner pays it off.

Seems to be a bit of a cock up from warmfront to have the loan secured against a fixed 2.35% share of holdings. Probably explains why Lai borrowed from a heating company in Brierley hill rather than a proper lender…
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: alex1 on August 15, 2023, 07:51:43 PM
If Warmfront are a heating company based at Brierley Hill, are they well known in the local community? If they have a lot of customers in the area, a fair number are likely to be Albion fans. Could that be of any relevance? 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 15, 2023, 07:53:20 PM
I've got a feeling we ought to take this heating company from Brierley Hill a bit more seriously.

Just done a bit more research on them & another one of their affiliates is a company called Global Sports Data & Technology group, who have Russel Slade as one of it's directors. Although RS wasn't a great success in football management, he does know his way around the game.

In the greater scheme of things, £30 million isn't a lot of money in football terms, & I could easily see Alex Hearn leading a buy-out consortium.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 15, 2023, 10:01:57 PM
Some of what is being stated by several of them is often factually incorrect on quite a regular basis.    Simple as that.  They often get it only 90% right and the other 10% is key.  As you know, I follow it extremely closely. The facts are the facts and most of them are not especially complex when you follow it very closely.  Some of these so-called experts only dip in and out when asked for their comments.

Company law and interpreting audited accounts is not rocket science (I’ve been doing it professionally for 40 years). 

You’re obviously entitled to your view.  Sarcasm is unnecessary. I will continue to correct inaccurate comments which are made by those who haven’t quite got it right.

This is precisely what I was referring to.  Football finance expert Kieran Maguire completely on the wrong track by believing that the Warmfront loan is a debt of the club and that the club might end owing £10m by 2025.  It is not a club debt and never was!    It’s the sort of inaccurate tripe that so-called experts spout, and then journalists and Twitter “experts” repeat often enough that fans believe it to be true.

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2023/08/15/finance-expert-mocks-guochuan-lai-as-10m-debt-update-on-west-brom-loan-emerges/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 15, 2023, 10:32:45 PM
There has been a lot of discussion regarding Warmfront Holdings the past few days, mainly started from us. So I’m sharing this with you to try to explain why it’s so key and important.

Here’s why it’s clear to me if I were Hearn I’d be eager to restructure the loan deal, even if it wasn’t anything to do with other desirables.

Ok bear with, I’ll try to break down.

His debt in Feb will be over £4m OR 2.35% of holdings shares.

That ultimately means his shares are 88.6% of group. (S4A owns rest)

So, if the clubs market value is to be believed, Yunyi are willing to accept £30m

This means that the value of those shares based on this figure is £624,630.

(30m / 2.35% / 88.6%)

The share is a fixed amount, doesn’t rise.

So if you were Hearn, surely you would look at the likelihood that you are not going to get the money back, and say to the person you lent it to you need a bigger percentage of shares to signify the drop in value from when you loaned the money. As he’s defaulted, he could use this as a negotiating tactic. Preferably in club (I’m pretty sure Hearn thinks it’s club already - hence ‘affiliate’ on their website)

If I were him I’d be asking 15% of club shares (not Holdings) = £4.5m

However, this will not work for Lai, as he still needs to retain 75% to do what he wants (15% would take him to 73.66%) Therefore I’d expect there will be an attempt to do a deal at around 12% in exchange for ripping loan agreement up.

That’s why I think it’s so relevant. We could be having a person/s that will own a share of our football club only because our owner has defaulted on a loan. Hardly a naughty boy to make our club better that is it?

The problem is though, the club won’t have a clue if/when they’re negotiating as all Directors of Group and Holdings are all Chinese. An absolute disgrace the EFL allow this to happen

 

What does “That ultimately means his shares are 88.6% of group. (S4A owns rest)” mean in the context of your post?  It makes no sense whatsoever.

Your analysis and valuation do not stack up.  If £4m (the £2m debt plus interest) was valued at 2.35% of Holdings at the time the loan was taken out (I’d argue that it could also be just the capital sum of £2m being valued at 2.35%, with an assumption that the interest would actually be paid while the loan was outstanding), then the value of the club for the purpose of the investment will have been either £192m (based on £4m) or £96m (based on £2m). The matter is more likely based on when the loan was taken out.

There would be no need for any “renegotiation” if the loan remains outstanding once Warmfront have demanded repayment and exercised their security by taking the 2.35% shareholding in Holdings.  Exercising the security extinguishes the loan.  The liability disappears when the 2.35% shares in Holdings are transferred to Warmfront.  There’s then no further compounding of accrued interest as all capital and interest under the loan is deemed repaid.

It is of course possible that Warmfront have agreed to accept some additional shares in Holdings for agreeing to defer calling in the loan until February 2024.  Such an agreement would undoubtedly result in an increase in the share security from 2.35% to somewhat more because Holdings’ 88.6% stake in the club is clearly worth less now.  We aren’t yet privy to what may have been negotiated, but it is very likely to be less than 11% in total re Holdings’s shares, so as not to take Warmfront over the EFL’s 10% owners’ threshold.

If Hearn doesn’t think he will get their money back then they simply need to call in their security and take the relevant shares in Holdings.  Hearn can ask for whatever he wants, but commercially Lai/Yunyai would surely just say “no, you accepted the 2.35% shareholding as security and that’s it” for the £2m loan plus interest, plus whatever has been negotiated for the extension.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 15, 2023, 11:33:09 PM


What does “That ultimately means his shares are 88.6% of group. (S4A owns rest)” mean in the context of your post?  It makes no sense whatsoever.

Your analysis and valuation do not stack up.  If £4m (the £2m debt plus interest) was valued at 2.35% of Holdings at the time the loan was taken out (I’d argue that it could also be just the capital sum of £2m being valued at 2.35%, with an assumption that the interest would actually be paid while the loan was outstanding), then the value of the club for the purpose of the investment will have been either £192m (based on £4m) or £96m (based on £2m). The matter is more likely based on when the loan was taken out.

There would be no need for any “renegotiation” if the loan remains outstanding once Warmfront have demanded repayment and exercised their security by taking the 2.35% shareholding in Holdings.  Exercising the security extinguishes the loan.  The liability disappears when the 2.35% shares in Holdings are transferred to Warmfront.  There’s then no further compounding of accrued interest as all capital and interest under the loan is deemed repaid.

It is of course possible that Warmfront have agreed to accept some additional shares in Holdings for agreeing to defer calling in the loan until February 2024.  Such an agreement would undoubtedly result in an increase in the share security from 2.35% to somewhat more because Holdings’ 88.6% stake in the club is clearly worth less now.  We aren’t yet privy to what may have been negotiated, but it is very likely to be less than 11% in total re Holdings’s shares, so as not to take Warmfront over the EFL’s 10% owners’ threshold.

If Hearn doesn’t think he will get their money back then they simply need to call in their security and take the relevant shares in Holdings.  Hearn can ask for whatever he wants, but commercially Lai/Yunyai would surely just say “no, you accepted the 2.35% shareholding as security and that’s it” for the £2m loan plus interest, plus whatever has been negotiated for the extension.


It doesn’t seem to make sense that they would swap shares in holdings for share in group, or negotiate to give more based on them not calling in the loan. Just give the 2.35% if Warmfront want to call it and have done with it. You’ve already had Warmfront pants down with 2.35% being worth at least 40% less than the £2m you got for it.

If someone owns 2.35% of holdings, they pretty inconsequential are they not. Then if they want to sell, by selling their 97.65% of holdings, whoever buys can force through a compulsory acquisition of the remaining 2.35%, thus obtaining the full  88% of group?

Thoughts overseas?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 16, 2023, 02:13:18 AM
There is no logic to charging a 5% monthly default rate of interest if the borrower can simply surrender over valued security to discharge the loan. Equally there is no point in defaulting if the principal and interest can be discharged by surrendering 2.35% of the equity in Holdings which at the point of default would be worth less than the outstanding loan plus interest.

Without seeing the loan agreement it is impossible to say but given the actions of the parties to the agreement I have to assume Lai can't pay and can't simply discharge the loan by surrendering the security. Equally  Warm Front believe at some point the interest they are charging will be paid and if it isn't they have some remedy to secure payment, otherwise it is a charitable donation not a commercial contract.     

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 16, 2023, 07:20:08 AM
I’m confused. The last post I quoted has changed, but it doesn’t say it was edited and normally even if an original is edited, the quote remains the same.  :-\

 :-\ Anyone shed any light on that?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 16, 2023, 07:35:46 AM
Whenever I open this thread and read posts the words and theme tune from the 70s sitcom Soap ring out in my head. Every time. I just know it's going to happen, it's unerring.

'Confused? You will be '.... 'duh duh, duh duh, duh duh duh duh'. Probably explains why I have so much difficulty actually following what's been posted. I'm not thick afterall. It's that damned music.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on August 16, 2023, 08:56:08 AM
what is clear is Lai doesn't understand what a loan is as he doesn't seem to pay anything back on any of them.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 16, 2023, 09:22:39 AM

It doesn’t seem to make sense that they would swap shares in holdings for share in group, or negotiate to give more based on them not calling in the loan. Just give the 2.35% if Warmfront want to call it and have done with it. You’ve already had Warmfront pants down with 2.35% being worth at least 40% less than the £2m you got for it.

If someone owns 2.35% of holdings, they pretty inconsequential are they not. Then if they want to sell, by selling their 97.65% of holdings, whoever buys can force through a compulsory acquisition of the remaining 2.35%, thus obtaining the full  88% of group?

Thoughts overseas?

I totally agree in principle, but I’m not certain whether compulsory acquisition of the 2.35% would necessarily apply as that depends on the provisions in the Articles.  However, I think it is far more likely that a sale of a majority interest in the club will be either (a) by Holdings selling its 100% interest in the Jersey holding company, or (b) the Jersey company selling its stake in Group.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 16, 2023, 09:26:22 AM
There is no logic to charging a 5% monthly default rate of interest if the borrower can simply surrender over valued security to discharge the loan. Equally there is no point in defaulting if the principal and interest can be discharged by surrendering 2.35% of the equity in Holdings which at the point of default would be worth less than the outstanding loan plus interest.

Without seeing the loan agreement it is impossible to say but given the actions of the parties to the agreement I have to assume Lai can't pay and can't simply discharge the loan by surrendering the security. Equally  Warm Front believe at some point the interest they are charging will be paid and if it isn't they have some remedy to secure payment, otherwise it is a charitable donation not a commercial contract.   

Agreed - something additional must have been negotiated between the two parties for when the 5% default interest came into effect, over and above the charge over the 2.35% share security.  We have no way of knowing what that is at this stage, but it is really just a private matter between them currently.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggie Crosser on August 16, 2023, 10:01:38 AM
Does Lai have any connection with this Chines Company on the brink of "BUST" - COUNTRY GARDEN?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 16, 2023, 10:07:29 AM

It doesn’t seem to make sense that they would swap shares in holdings for share in group, or negotiate to give more based on them not calling in the loan. Just give the 2.35% if Warmfront want to call it and have done with it. You’ve already had Warmfront pants down with 2.35% being worth at least 40% less than the £2m you got for it.

If someone owns 2.35% of holdings, they pretty inconsequential are they not. Then if they want to sell, by selling their 97.65% of holdings, whoever buys can force through a compulsory acquisition of the remaining 2.35%, thus obtaining the full  88% of group?

Thoughts overseas?

My opinion for what it's worth.

I think you've summerised there where the interpretation of the agreement makes no sense.

1 - The lender's security for  the loan is a fixed percentage of equity with a declining value.

2 - The penalty to the borrower for default is to increase the size of the loan by 5% per month. No penalty whatsoever if you can't repay the loan. You may as well just surrender the equity.

Surely a more sensible default agreement for both lender & borrower would be a 5% increase in the percentage of the equity per month.

So 2.35 x 1.05 = 2.47% after month 1
     2.47 x 1.05 = 2.6% after month 2
and so on.

Personally, I believe there's a lot more to this than an agreement with a heating company from Brierley Hill
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: graka on August 16, 2023, 11:11:22 AM
I’m no financial expert but we took out the MSD loan prior to selling Dara and we also received a million for the young lad to villa
So if the MSD loan was to subsidise this season and hopefully a little longer until we can shift another batch of higher earners at the end of the season wouldn’t it have made smart financial sense to clear the high interest warmfront loan or am I thinking too logical
Miles said we would have to sell to invest in new players yet we have done this and shipped out numerous loans and released a fair few players
Just from a logical management of my household funds I try to clear any debt costing me most interest wise first or did the MSD loan not cover the entirety of our shortfall for just this season?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 16, 2023, 11:32:09 AM
I’m no financial expert but we took out the MSD loan prior to selling Dara and we also received a million for the young lad to villa
So if the MSD loan was to subsidise this season and hopefully a little longer until we can shift another batch of higher earners at the end of the season wouldn’t it have made smart financial sense to clear the high interest warmfront loan or am I thinking too logical
Miles said we would have to sell to invest in new players yet we have done this and shipped out numerous loans and released a fair few players
Just from a logical management of my household funds I try to clear any debt costing me most interest wise first or did the MSD loan not cover the entirety of our shortfall for just this season?

What's being discussed above is the £2 million loan from Warmfront Holdings taken by WBA Holdings. It will only directly impact WBA Holdings, not the football club.

On the other hand, it's WBA Holdings that are available for sale, so there are a number of nuances in the deal that could have an impact on the sale.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 16, 2023, 11:47:58 AM
What's being discussed above is the £2 million loan from Warmfront Holdings taken by WBA Holdings. It will only directly impact WBA Holdings, not the football club.

On the other hand, it's WBA Holdings that are available for sale, so there are a number of nuances in the deal that could have an impact on the sale.

Agreed - and this is where too many people are getting confused by the Warmfront loan (including Kieran Maguire).  You are correct that it’s not debt of the Group/Club, so doesn’t affect the MSD loan or indeed any cashflow of the Group/Club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ashdoy on August 16, 2023, 01:27:54 PM
Does anybody else ever read this topic and end up totally confused 😂

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 16, 2023, 03:15:43 PM
Agreed - something additional must have been negotiated between the two parties for when the 5% default interest came into effect, over and above the charge over the 2.35% share security.  We have no way of knowing what that is at this stage, but it is really just a private matter between them currently.

Yes it is very much a matter between two corporate entities which if I were an occasional customer of either would not concern me at all. However this is football and what is at stake here is the future of my football club. That does not give me the right to know but it does give an interest and an emotional stake way beyond an everyday commercial transaction.

Without the loan agreement it is impossible to know, however at some point WarmFront will want to be paid and on the face of it Lai can't pay which would put Holdings into administration the consequences of which could be dire.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: costa blanca baggie on August 16, 2023, 03:25:04 PM
Does anybody else ever read this topic and end up totally confused 😂
So much so, that I’ve started to skim read it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 16, 2023, 03:38:51 PM
Does anybody else ever read this topic and end up totally confused 😂

Every day  :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 16, 2023, 03:45:11 PM
Yes it is very much a matter between two corporate entities which if I were an occasional customer of either would not concern me at all. However this is football and what is at stake here is the future of my football club. That does not give me the right to know but it does give an interest and an emotional stake way beyond an everyday commercial transaction.

Without the loan agreement it is impossible to know, however at some point WarmFront will want to be paid and on the face of it Lai can't pay which would put Holdings into administration the consequences of which could be dire.

Agree with this entirely. All we ever try to do is protect the football club we love. My original point was that if I was Hearn, I’d know that I’ve got very little chance of getting my money paid back, and would try to enter negotiations that protected me more than he currently has in the 2.35% of Holdings shares. I don’t think that’s really that unlikely. Respect people have understanding of business law, but I don’t think the people involved are overly bothered about being ethical
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 16, 2023, 05:05:18 PM
Yes it is very much a matter between two corporate entities which if I were an occasional customer of either would not concern me at all. However this is football and what is at stake here is the future of my football club. That does not give me the right to know but it does give an interest and an emotional stake way beyond an everyday commercial transaction.

Without the loan agreement it is impossible to know, however at some point WarmFront will want to be paid and on the face of it Lai can't pay which would put Holdings into administration the consequences of which could be dire.

If Holdings (not the group/club) went into administration then the administrator would look to sell its asset (the underlying shareholding ultimately being the group/club) on the market without the club suffering a points deduction.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 16, 2023, 05:06:40 PM
If Holdings (not the group/club) went into administration then the administrator would look to sell its asset (the underlying shareholding ultimately being the group/club) on the market without the club suffering a points deduction.

The more I think about it, maybe we should be encouraging Warmfront to call in the administrators of Holdings!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 16, 2023, 05:43:43 PM
The more I think about it, maybe we should be encouraging Warmfront to call in the administrators of Holdings!

In your experience, why would a Brierley Hill heating company, loan a Chinese football club owner £2 million anyway, especially when the loaner is an alleged STH for AVFC, &, if we've interpreted the deal correctly, he stands to lose money?

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 16, 2023, 06:09:57 PM
In your experience, why would a Brierley Hill heating company, loan a Chinese football club owner £2 million anyway, especially when the loaner is an alleged STH for AVFC, &, if we've interpreted the deal correctly, he stands to lose money?

I’ve looked at the accounts for Warmfront holdings, investments and group and it doesn’t make sense for them to dabble. People are suggesting it makes sense that their are additional agreed terms in that apply now it’s in default, but I don’t think we can completely rule out the (I assume) generally bright guy at Warmfront has made a huge mistake.

£2m is a massive amount for company of their apparent size
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on August 16, 2023, 07:13:26 PM
I don't think we can be  relaxed about Holdings going into administration.

There is no guarantee that the club would be effectively ring fenced. We have no idea what an insolvency event would trigger. I am sure at least one club's parent company went into administration without putting the club into administration and the EFL took the view that the insolvency rules applied to the club. Equally we have no idea as whether or not MSD would be spooked, they ask for their money back and the club is in administration regardless.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 16, 2023, 10:18:35 PM
In your experience, why would a Brierley Hill heating company, loan a Chinese football club owner £2 million anyway, especially when the loaner is an alleged STH for AVFC, &, if we've interpreted the deal correctly, he stands to lose money?

That’s anybody’s guess.  Makes no commercial sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 16, 2023, 10:23:42 PM
I don't think we can be  relaxed about Holdings going into administration.

There is no guarantee that the club would be effectively ring fenced. We have no idea what an insolvency event would trigger. I am sure at least one club's parent company went into administration without putting the club into administration and the EFL took the view that the insolvency rules applied to the club. Equally we have no idea as whether or not MSD would be spooked, they ask for their money back and the club is in administration regardless.

That’s a valid put but I think the club to which you were referring (I can’t recall which club it was) was 100% owned and there was lots of inter-company loan debt (not the same here).

It is hard to see why MSD would be concerned as they are fully secured by their debenture over Group’s assets (including Group’s shares in Club) and the stadium. MSD are not at risk of losing money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 16, 2023, 10:59:48 PM
I’ve looked at the accounts for Warmfront holdings, investments and group and it doesn’t make sense for them to dabble. People are suggesting it makes sense that their are additional agreed terms in that apply now it’s in default, but I don’t think we can completely rule out the (I assume) generally bright guy at Warmfront has made a huge mistake.

£2m is a massive amount for company of their apparent size

What’s very odd is that the loan from Warmfront to Holdings was made in September 2021.  It is included in the July 22 audited accounts of Holdings as a loan liability, but I cannot see it included in the Warmfront accounts to June 22 as a loan asset.   How odd!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 17, 2023, 08:50:54 AM
What’s very odd is that the loan from Warmfront to Holdings was made in September 2021.  It is included in the July 22 audited accounts of Holdings as a loan liability, but I cannot see it included in the Warmfront accounts to June 22 as a loan asset.   How odd!

Yes, I looked at that too, but there is a catch-all entry of investments, so I assume it's included in that.
Aren't Warmfront accounts "truncated" as they don't meet the turnover requirements for full accounts?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: phbaggies on August 17, 2023, 09:00:32 AM
Anybody watched/ watching the Burnley documentary? They have new American owners/ investors who are very hands on, attend all matches home and away, even watching matches at daughters wedding  ;D What a difference it makes compared to ours!! They are fully invested in the project, and absolutely romped the Championship with all on board! Depressing reality for us really  :-[
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 17, 2023, 09:04:34 AM
Yes, I looked at that too, but there is a catch-all entry of investments, so I assume it's included in that.
Aren't Warmfront accounts "truncated" as they don't meet the turnover requirements for full accounts?

They are indeed truncated accounts.

The loan definitely isn’t included in the “fixed asset investments” in Note 4, but could be included in the “other investments” in Note 6.  A loan is not usually classified as an investment, but where it’s linked to equity (which is here due to the 2.35% share collateral) I guess it’s possible. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 17, 2023, 09:06:58 AM
What’s very odd is that the loan from Warmfront to Holdings was made in September 2021.  It is included in the July 22 audited accounts of Holdings as a loan liability, but I cannot see it included in the Warmfront accounts to June 22 as a loan asset.   How odd!

Not bad going for a team of 'Domestic Energy Assessors' established in the summer of 2019. Lagging must pay well if they can make a legal leap into the loans business in just over two years. Not that I'm implying there's anything remotely dodgy about them (for legal reasons) of course.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on August 17, 2023, 09:08:24 AM
Not bad going for a team of 'Domestic Energy Assessors' established in the summer of 2019. Lagging must pay well if they can make a legal leap into the loans business in just over two years. Not that I'm implying there's anything remotely dodgy about them (for legal reasons) of course.

Not HQ'd anywhere near the ex Crooked House are they??
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 17, 2023, 09:09:01 AM
Anybody watched/ watching the Burnley documentary? They have new American owners/ investors who are very hands on, attend all matches home and away, even watching matches at daughters wedding  ;D What a difference it makes compared to ours!! They are fully invested in the project, and absolutely romped the Championship with all on board! Depressing reality for us really  :-[
Depends on your point of view,I would think less of them for being distracted at a daughters wedding …I also don’t think it matters how “invested” they are…when the Netflix cameras are around .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: phbaggies on August 17, 2023, 09:18:24 AM
Depends on your point of view,I would think less of them for being distracted at a daughters wedding …I also don’t think it matters how “invested” they are…when the Netflix cameras are around .
The proof was in the pudding, they invested in 22 new players, and walked the league. I accept there was a lot of playing up to the cameras but our chairman has been to what 2-3 games in how many years??

As for the daughters wedding, im sure it was only the reception they were checking the results!  :D

Out of the two scenarios, i'd pick Burnleys owners every day of the week, and twice on Sundays!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 17, 2023, 10:46:20 AM
Not bad going for a team of 'Domestic Energy Assessors' established in the summer of 2019. Lagging must pay well if they can make a legal leap into the loans business in just over two years. Not that I'm implying there's anything remotely dodgy about them (for legal reasons) of course.

Morning Dan,
 
I think it was you that pointed out Warmfront's list of affiliates included WBA.
There is onother affiliate called Global Sports data & technology, who have Russell Slade listed as a director. Global also see blockchain as pivotal in their growth. (Remember the French Guy)

Hearns bio also describes him as an investor in professional football.

There are number of investment companies in the Warmfront Group, none of them very big, but all appearing to be set up to take advantages of opportunities.

Hearn doesn't appear to be a fool, so IMO, it's unlikely that he's been trapped into a loss by the WBA loan. What's more likely, in my opinion, is the default formula ensures that longer the debt is outstanding, the greater percentage of shares Hearn gets.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 17, 2023, 03:51:00 PM
Morning Dan,
 
I think it was you that pointed out Warmfront's list of affiliates included WBA.
There is onother affiliate called Global Sports data & technology, who have Russell Slade listed as a director. Global also see blockchain as pivotal in their growth. (Remember the French Guy)

Hearns bio also describes him as an investor in professional football.

There are number of investment companies in the Warmfront Group, none of them very big, but all appearing to be set up to take advantages of opportunities.

Hearn doesn't appear to be a fool, so IMO, it's unlikely that he's been trapped into a loss by the WBA loan. What's more likely, in my opinion, is the default formula ensures that longer the debt is outstanding, the greater percentage of shares Hearn gets.

Afternoon John. Yes I noticed that. Got his fingers in a lot of pies has Mr. Hearn. If I were a forensic financial expert I'd be paying attention to more than one money trail.

But I'm not a forensic financial expert so what I'd do if I was one is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and I'm most definitely not going to imply anything.

Going off on a tangent a bit here but I was enjoying a lovely bit of sun just. But then the clouds came over and it's all gone quite shady. Just my luck really.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 17, 2023, 07:52:48 PM
Just my top of the head thoughts on buying and selling the club

If as an investor considering the purchase a Championship club, there would not be many options better than West Brom

To maximise the potential selling price Lai is pursuing a cost reduction strategy of don’t spend any money, reduce the wage bill, sell whatever players  you can and keep the club afloat with minimum expenditure = an asset with reduced downside and debt, clean assets with most longstanding debt reducing. However there is a major risk
It is highly dependent on timing, this plan can only be followed once as there will be reduced options to reduce operating costs and receive any capital sales income

As a purchaser, reduced downside and as time progresses more pressure on Lai to sell in the window of opportunity Lai is creating by reducing costs and maximising asset sales.
The timing has to be before January, assuming the club is not trailing at the bottom of the league, this enables the purchaser to have got the club at a lower cost than now and leaves enough time to buy players that will keep the club in the championship and perhaps even challenge for promotion ahead of time
 
The real opportunity for promotion becomes 2024/5 where there will be 2 further windows to invest in player purchases

It may sound to simple but a sale before January is the key to the purchaser maximising future potential and of course profit

Buy low, sell high a la Jeremy 😎
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Aztech on August 17, 2023, 11:04:48 PM
Just read that Chinese property group Evergrande seeks Chapter 15 protection in Manhattan bankruptcy court. Not directly linked to Lai but it could be detrimental to him and his fellow shareholders as the markets could drop big style.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 17, 2023, 11:41:37 PM
Just read that Chinese property group Evergrande seeks Chapter 15 protection in Manhattan bankruptcy court. Not directly linked to Lai but it could be detrimental to him and his fellow shareholders as the markets could drop big style.

It will have a massive impact on the Chinese stockmarkets and indeed global stock markets
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 18, 2023, 12:32:40 AM
It will have a massive impact on the Chinese stockmarkets and indeed global stock markets
Predicted by analysts months ago, mostly already factored in, so a blip not massive impact
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on August 18, 2023, 03:24:41 AM
i have serious concerns about the viability of our club at present. if Lai doesn't sell the club, i think there is a real possibility that we don't last the next 10 (or possibly even 5) years.

We are run in an atrocious manner at present and unless we can turn up top line talents and profit from them in the transfer market, our club is in a lot of trouble.

it really is a "negative" post i know, but whenever i think of the club at the moment i get depressed at where we are at.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2023, 09:29:50 AM
i have serious concerns about the viability of our club at present. if Lai doesn't sell the club, i think there is a real possibility that we don't last the next 10 (or possibly even 5) years.

We are run in an atrocious manner at present and unless we can turn up top line talents and profit from them in the transfer market, our club is in a lot of trouble.

it really is a "negative" post i know, but whenever i think of the club at the moment i get depressed at where we are at.

Lai will sell.  It’s “when”, not “if”.    The bigger concern is that we fall into the hands of an even worse owner (and yes there are some out there)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on August 18, 2023, 09:40:09 AM
why would somebody buy us now when they could pick us up for pennies on the pound when we enter administration
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2023, 11:55:08 AM
why would somebody buy us now when they could pick us up for pennies on the pound when we enter administration

Because the risk is that by then the club would have much further to bounce back from (with a big points deduction) and they’d simply have to inject more funds to buy more players.  Buy for £50m now and inject £20m or buy for £20m now and have to inject £50m comes for the same thing.

Bear in mind that we are not like every other club which has gone into administration. We have minimal debt by comparison.  We still have a positive balance sheet.  It is purely cash flow which is the issue.  Going into administration is definitely not the best option.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 18, 2023, 12:12:51 PM
Because the risk is that by then the club would have much further to bounce back from (with a big points deduction) and they’d simply have to inject more funds to buy more players.  Buy for £50m now and inject £20m or buy for £20m now and have to inject £50m comes for the same thing.

Bear in mind that we are not like every other club which has gone into administration. We have minimal debt by comparison.  We still have a positive balance sheet.  It is purely cash flow which is the issue.  Going into administration is definitely not the best option.

Have you any idea of just how much Administration Costs are!! Crippling
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on August 18, 2023, 12:25:30 PM
Predicted by analysts months ago, mostly already factored in, so a blip not massive impact

Yes, if you've followed Chinese news then this is no surprise. It also shows how the likes of Fosun are struggling too.

It's a little off topic but if you're interested in Chinese news then I'd take a look at the Youtuber Serpentza who is a South African who used to live out there. It's very intriguing stuff and he basically highlights just how fake the Chinese economy is. For instance, they recently covered up a massive flood that destroyed several cities. They were also found to have literal fake drains as well for show (to cut costs).

As for the Albion, it shows just how fragile our owners finances may be - which is either a good or a bad thing depending on your point of view.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 18, 2023, 01:45:33 PM
Yes there’s a huge real estate Chinese company in the states on the verge of going under
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on August 18, 2023, 02:27:33 PM
Have you any idea of just how much Administration Costs are!! Crippling

Yes I do. As I say, best avoided,   

But if we did go into administration then the process would be relatively simple as we have very simple creditors.  It won’t happen though.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on August 18, 2023, 02:49:56 PM
Check out Evergrand Group in New York look on CNN Business sectionthe chinese real estste is having a disastrous effect in china, so thats the buziness Lai is in isnt it, if he doesnt get 60 mill or whatever hell end up with nothing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on August 18, 2023, 04:28:44 PM
Afternoon John. Yes I noticed that. Got his fingers in a lot of pies has Mr. Hearn. If I were a forensic financial expert I'd be paying attention to more than one money trail.

But I'm not a forensic financial expert so what I'd do if I was one is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and I'm most definitely not going to imply anything.

Going off on a tangent a bit here but I was enjoying a lovely bit of sun just. But then the clouds came over and it's all gone quite shady. Just my luck really.
Is this Mr Hearn any relation to one Barry Hearn? Or am I seeing a conspiracy theory where there is none?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Baggies on August 25, 2023, 12:25:55 PM
Sam Cunningham, Chief Football writer at the I newspaper has written a feature article in today's paper on the goings on at Albion, telling the story of rich men who have taken money out of the club over a long period of time (Peace, Lai, etc). Includes interviews with a few people involved from the fans perspectives, like S4A and Action for Albion's Alistair Jones (Sedgley on here).

It is a very good article, which continues to highlight our case and elevating it to the highest profile current case of club owner mismanagement in the public consciousness (outside of the Glazer family).

Sedgley talks in the article about how to the aim is that the government will take on our case as the flagship or test case for the new white paper. It is worth noting the work Action 4 Albion have done has helped Shareholders for Albion get a meeting with the govnement, including it seems Rishi Sunak himself (if I understood the article correctly).

Some people (and it seems nonchalant ex players) mock the work of A4A and the shine a light protest, Sedgley acknowledges it is taken the p*** out of a bit, but the continued highlighting and work they are doing is putting just as much pressure on the club as the more aggressive forms of protest adopted by Newcastle and Charlton fans the last few years, it didn't exactly speed up their take overs after all.

If enough football editors keep talking about our case, it gives us the best chance of getting the government interested, which seems the most likely way we can have any impact.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Blowee on August 25, 2023, 12:32:05 PM
And yet the main steam media e.g. Sky either have no clue or no interest in what’s happening at our club. Look at last weeks one-sided love in with Leeds United!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 25, 2023, 01:02:19 PM
Sam Cunningham, Chief Football writer at the I newspaper has written a feature article in today's paper on the goings on at Albion, telling the story of rich men who have taken money out of the club over a long period of time (Peace, Lai, etc). Includes interviews with a few people involved from the fans perspectives, like S4A and Action for Albion's Alistair Jones (Sedgley on here).

It is a very good article, which continues to highlight our case and elevating it to the highest profile current case of club owner mismanagement in the public consciousness (outside of the Glazer family).

Sedgley talks in the article about how to the aim is that the government will take on our case as the flagship or test case for the new white paper. It is worth noting the work Action 4 Albion have done has helped Shareholders for Albion get a meeting with the govnement, including it seems Rishi Sunak himself (if I understood the article correctly).

Some people (and it seems nonchalant ex players) mock the work of A4A and the shine a light protest, Sedgley acknowledges it is taken the p*** out of a bit, but the continued highlighting and work they are doing is putting just as much pressure on the club as the more aggressive forms of protest adopted by Newcastle and Charlton fans the last few years, it didn't exactly speed up their take overs after all.

If enough football editors keep talking about our case, it gives us the best chance of getting the government interested, which seems the most likely way we can have any impact.
A4A have put up a link to the article, but it's behind a paywall. (At least it is on Google Chrome browser)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 25, 2023, 01:03:08 PM
A4A have put up a link to the article, but it's behind a paywall. (At least it is on Google Chrome browser)

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/west-brom-unpaid-loans-owners-fans-fighting-back-2569868


Free to read on firefox, read it this morning on there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: aidacuk on August 25, 2023, 01:04:38 PM
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/west-brom-unpaid-loans-owners-fans-fighting-back-2569868


Free to read on firefox, read it this morning on there.

Removed paywall:

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Finews.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Fwest-brom-unpaid-loans-owners-fans-fighting-back-2569868
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 25, 2023, 01:20:10 PM
Anything the government do may help clubs and the football industry in future, but I don’t see how it’s going to  help us in the here and now with Lai.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 25, 2023, 01:27:07 PM
Removed paywall:

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Finews.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Fwest-brom-unpaid-loans-owners-fans-fighting-back-2569868

Thanks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 25, 2023, 02:04:06 PM
And yet the main steam media e.g. Sky either have no clue or no interest in what’s happening at our club. Look at last weeks one-sided love in with Leeds United!

Sky is only interested in the big city clubs with big city sized support for that's where the advertising money is.  They must be "quite pleased" when referees are unduly forgiving of big club mistakes and come down hard on the smaller clubs.  Anything else is a complication; just think how convenient and efficient it would be if they only had to report from a handful of grounds with permanently based broadcasting kit.

Unless the government intervenes with effective regulation, this country will soon have a continental system with a handful of clubs full of foreign players winning everything and second and lower divisions sinking to semi-pro status.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 25, 2023, 02:10:53 PM
Anything the government do may help clubs and the football industry in future, but I don’t see how it’s going to  help us in the here and now with Lai.

Andy Street has helped facilitate the sales of Blues and Coventry, surely that’s worth a try. I can’t for the life of me work out why people sit on a keyboard, saying this won’t work, that won’t work.

I’ve got off my backside and tried to do something, anything, I possibly can to try to help save our club. I tell you one thing, I’d rather keep trying and what you see as failing than just sit at a screen bitching about it.

It might not get anywhere, you’re right. But at least I and we have tried.

Rant over 🤣
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 25, 2023, 02:14:44 PM
A summary of our recent meeting with Andy Street & Nicola Richards MP

Action for Albion founder Alistair Jones said:

“From the first day of our campaign we said that we want to campaign respectfully, legally and always maintain support for our team on the pitch.

Thanks to this approach, we have retained the support of local MPs and we have now had the opportunity to raise our concerns with the West Midlands Mayor.

On behalf of our organisations, I want to thank Andy for his time and Nicola for all the work she has put in to raise awareness of the situation at the club.

Our meeting was very productive, and we look forward to working with both for the benefit of the club, the fans and the community that the club does so much to support.

Our approach is from three angles spread across visual matchday action to raise awareness, direct communication with the football club management and lobbying the support of outside persons of influence who can further our cause both politically and in the media.

Without the legal, peaceful and constructive approach we have adopted the latter two parts of the campaign would not be possible and our firm belief as we move into the post “Lai Out” era (he wants out, that’s done) is that this lobbying is now a critical part of the campaign as we look to tell the world that West Bromwich Albion, whilst in peril at the moment, is a fantastic opportunity for an investor to realise the potential of the wonderful club we all support”
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on August 25, 2023, 02:23:20 PM
Andy Street has helped facilitate the sales of Blues and Coventry, surely that’s worth a try. I can’t for the life of me work out why people sit on a keyboard, saying this won’t work, that won’t work.

I’ve got off my backside and tried to do something, anything, I possibly can to try to help save our club. I tell you one thing, I’d rather keep trying and what you see as failing than just sit at a screen bitching about it.

It might not get anywhere, you’re right. But at least I and we have tried.

Rant over 🤣

I find a lot of Albion fans are apathetic sadly. Won't do anything themselves but will moan about those who try.

I appreciate your efforts again. It's a thankless task.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on August 25, 2023, 02:47:05 PM
I think what A4A is doing is fantastic, thank you and  keep going please!! It is making an impact as people are talking about it.

Lobbying politicians to change football club ownership regulation has to be something nearly every fan of every club wants . Clubs in this country are not business ventures first but the heart and soul of  communities and need to be regulated that way , maybe even not for profit or with a cooperative approach of fan majority ownership like in Germany .

Self regulation doesn’t work so there needs to be a game-wide change in this country. Albion are one of many clubs with shocking owners who have used clubs for their own purposes and the club comes second.



Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 25, 2023, 02:56:04 PM
Andy Street has helped facilitate the sales of Blues and Coventry, surely that’s worth a try. I can’t for the life of me work out why people sit on a keyboard, saying this won’t work, that won’t work.

I’ve got off my backside and tried to do something, anything, I possibly can to try to help save our club. I tell you one thing, I’d rather keep trying and what you see as failing than just sit at a screen bitching about it.

It might not get anywhere, you’re right. But at least I and we have tried.

Rant over 🤣

I’d be interested in what way Andy Street has facilitated the sale of either. I’ve not looked in to it but I find it hard to believe he did.

It wasnt even really a dig at you. You’re seem very sensitive. You shouldn’t  hold out yourself out there as the spokes person for the fans and then take comments so personally . Especially when as has been said already in this thread, some of what you say is just wrong. I can’t understand why two grown men would go up to the ground to get a picture of themselves holding their open letter but each to their own.

What exactly do you think the government will for us? They aren’t going to meddle in a specific private business.  They may do things to regulate the industry and ownerships collectively, but that doesn’t help us with Lai, which is what I said.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 25, 2023, 04:37:59 PM
I’d be interested in what way Andy Street has facilitated the sale of either. I’ve not looked in to it but I find it hard to believe he did.

It wasnt even really a dig at you. You’re seem very sensitive. You shouldn’t  hold out yourself out there as the spokes person for the fans and then take comments so personally . Especially when as has been said already in this thread, some of what you say is just wrong. I can’t understand why two grown men would go up to the ground to get a picture of themselves holding their open letter but each to their own.

What exactly do you think the government will for us? They aren’t going to meddle in a specific private business.  They may do things to regulate the industry and ownerships collectively, but that doesn’t help us with Lai, which is what I said.

I can’t understand why a grown man can sit on a keyboard typing things without actually doing something themselves, but each to their own. I think you are wrong also, you’re not the oracle of all business.

As for the grown men bit, I would have thought it would have been painfully obvious that its exposure in the media that is required. You don’t know me, and believe me I’ve no interest in knowing you ever, but I do know I’m trying to help the club I love. Might get some things wrong occasionally, but I’m trying. I’ve sacrificed more than you will ever know doing this, so keep your smart backside comments to yourself.

Thanks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 25, 2023, 05:07:57 PM
I can’t understand why a grown man can sit on a keyboard typing things without actually doing something themselves, but each to their own. I think you are wrong also, you’re not the oracle of all business.

As for the grown men bit, I would have thought it would have been painfully obvious that its exposure in the media that is required. You don’t know me, and believe me I’ve no interest in knowing you ever, but I do know I’m trying to help the club I love. Might get some things wrong occasionally, but I’m trying. I’ve sacrificed more than you will ever know doing this, so keep your smart backside comments to yourself.

Thanks



It was you who started with the 'I can’t for the life of me work out why people sit on a keyboard, saying this won’t work, that won’t work' in direct response to me.  Then repeated it. So if you leave out those type of comments, so will I.  ???

However yet again you get your knickers in a twist.  I did not suggest I the oracle of business, I pointed out you've been pulled up when saying things that are factually incorrect.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on August 25, 2023, 05:53:39 PM
Lads , can we calm down a bit please.
We all want the best for the club at the end of the day and rid of Lai , I think we can all agree on that .
Agree to disagree and move on.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on August 25, 2023, 06:06:37 PM
Mobile phones at ten paces and have a shine off  ;D .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: NJS on August 25, 2023, 06:24:33 PM
Sedgley,
I hope you understand that while I have been sceptical of the potential effectiveness of A4A's attempts to put any pressure on the distant Lai but never disparaging.  As long as A4A's efforts did not transfer onto our own players, I was quite OK to wait and see how much of an influence you could have.

I think that i paper article shows A4A has done extremely well in raising the issue. 

This site has also helped in that its contributor have  clarified some issues regarding the ownership of Group vs Holdings and explained  some technical details of the main 3 loans.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 25, 2023, 06:30:31 PM
Mobile phones at ten paces and have a shine off  ;D .

 ;D Just not at 3.12 tomrrow or it will be very confusing.

I’m not wound up.

There’s story’s in the press about the club I support and how some fans are involving (lobbying, talking whatever you want to call it) government at various levels. I have every right on a this forum to say what I did, which is that don’t think the government will do anything that affects our ownership situation. 

A4A and their rep has  every right to debate that if they want to. I just don’t think. ‘ at least we are doing something’ is always a strong argument


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on August 25, 2023, 06:59:05 PM
;D Just not at 3.12 tomrrow or it will be very confusing.

I’m not wound up.

There’s story’s in the press about the club I support and how some fans are involving (lobbying, talking whatever you want to call it) government at various levels. I have every right on a this forum to say what I did, which is that don’t think the government will do anything that affects our ownership situation. 

A4A and their rep has  every right to debate that if they want to. I just don’t think. ‘ at least we are doing something’ is always a strong argument

I agree with your interpretation that future cultural change won't effect our current position.

I also applaud the energy & enthusiasm that A4A & particularly Sedgley, have put into their campaign.


From historical conversations, I know there are a number of forum members who are professional finance specialists, some of whom have challenged A4A's interpretations of WBAFC & WBAFC Group Finances. I'm not sure the responses to those challenges have won A4A too many friends.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 25, 2023, 07:13:33 PM
I agree with your interpretation that future cultural change won't effect our current position.

I also applaud the energy & enthusiasm that A4A & particularly Sedgley, have put into their campaign.


From historical conversations, I know there are a number of forum members who are professional finance specialists, some of whom have challenged A4A's interpretations of WBAFC & WBAFC Group Finances. I'm not sure the responses to those challenges have won A4A too many friends.

Got no problem in being challenged, I’ve never processed to be an expert. I appreciate help and advice.

Maybe our responses haven’t won too many friends, but walk a mile in another man’s shoes first. Me and the other volunteers have given countless hours, sometimes at our own expense to try to help. When we get ‘what good is that going to do’ time and again it gets frustrating.

Getting political help we believe can make a tangible difference, in some ways far more than mass protests can.

Dexy is right. We all want the same thing. Apologies for any offence I’ve caused.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 25, 2023, 07:29:35 PM
I agree with your interpretation that future cultural change won't effect our current position.

I also applaud the energy & enthusiasm that A4A & particularly Sedgley, have put into their campaign.


From historical conversations, I know there are a number of forum members who are professional finance specialists, some of whom have challenged A4A's interpretations of WBAFC & WBAFC Group Finances. I'm not sure the responses to those challenges have won A4A too many friends.

They’ve done a really good job of raising awareness and getting press to be fair and maybe I should acknowledge that because I do always seem to be critical of them.

However normally an awareness campaign is for a reason. Public support forcing action,  or awareness leading to research, or donations. Once people are aware in this case, then what?  Surely there has to be something that awareness leads to?

I also understand why they get annoyed and bite but the tone is poor at times and quite sanctimonious. Like fans who aren’t with them are lesser supporters, which is what they got stick for suggesting when they said something at a match about walking by means people don’t care. 

Saying things like well you must know more than forensic accounts, when someone like overseas corrects them and clearly understand this stuff does alienate too.

I would love to understand what they want to achieve but more than that and for them to be able to affect real change.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 25, 2023, 07:32:54 PM
Got no problem in being challenged, I’ve never processed to be an expert. I appreciate help and advice.

Maybe our responses haven’t won too many friends, but walk a mile in another man’s shoes first. Me and the other volunteers have given countless hours, sometimes at our own expense to try to help. When we get ‘what good is that going to do’ time and again it gets frustrating.

Getting political help we believe can make a tangible difference, in some ways far more than mass protests can.

Dexy is right. We all want the same thing. Apologies for any offence I’ve caused.

I apologise if I get the tone wrong too and frustrate. I genuinely don’t question your effort or motive. I ask question and comment on here in the hope to get debate to be honest hope someone will point out something I’m missing. 

We do just have a different opinion on what will result.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on August 25, 2023, 07:46:24 PM
Sedgley, who knows what will work.

Whatever, I applaud you for giving it your all. Don't stop. The more publicity the better, this game has been utterly wrecked by greedy people.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on August 25, 2023, 07:50:45 PM
Sedgley, who knows what will work.

Whatever, I applaud you for giving it your all. Don't stop. The more publicity the better, this game has been utterly wrecked by greedy people.
Always looked on in pity at other clubs in a mess  , I never thought it would be us one day.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on August 25, 2023, 07:54:40 PM
They’ve done a really good job of raising awareness and getting press to be fair and maybe I should acknowledge that because I do always seem to be critical of them.

However normally an awareness campaign is for a reason. Public support forcing action,  or awareness leading to research, or donations. Once people are aware in this case, then what?  Surely there has to be something that awareness leads to?

I also understand why they get annoyed and bite but the tone is poor at times and quite sanctimonious. Like fans who aren’t with them are lesser supporters, which is what they got stick for suggesting when they said something at a match about walking by means people don’t care. 

Saying things like well you must know more than forensic accounts, when someone like overseas corrects them and clearly understand this stuff does alienate too.

I would love to understand what they want to achieve but more than that and for them to be able to affect real change.

I agree with a lot of your post. Especially the criticism regarding people walking past and our members criticising. That was absolutely wrong and I personally went on WM to apologise.

As for the accountancy part, I think it’s human nature, when you feel that someone is having a pop, you have one back, like your jibe about grown men holding a letter.

To me, the bottom line should be we all want the same thing, and in the main, we’ve done a pretty good job. Not perfect, but I think we’ve actually helped to move us closer to get rid of this terrible ownership.

How about us drawing a line under it and moving on? I’m willing
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on August 25, 2023, 07:59:59 PM
I agree with a lot of your post. Especially the criticism regarding people walking past and our members criticising. That was absolutely wrong and I personally went on WM to apologise.

As for the accountancy part, I think it’s human nature, when you feel that someone is having a pop, you have one back, like your jibe about grown men holding a letter.

To me, the bottom line should be we all want the same thing, and in the main, we’ve done a pretty good job. Not perfect, but I think we’ve actually helped to move us closer to get rid of this terrible ownership.

How about us drawing a line under it and moving on? I’m willing

So am I. As I said I don’t question the effort or motive. 
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on August 26, 2023, 05:54:39 PM
Andy Street has helped facilitate the sales of Blues and Coventry, surely that’s worth a try. I can’t for the life of me work out why people sit on a keyboard, saying this won’t work, that won’t work.

I’ve got off my backside and tried to do something, anything, I possibly can to try to help save our club. I tell you one thing, I’d rather keep trying and what you see as failing than just sit at a screen bitching about it.

It might not get anywhere, you’re right. But at least I and we have tried.

Rant over 🤣

Keep up the good work mate.

Don't let the haters who can't be bothered to do anything get you down.

Especially those they think they know everything Albion until they are shown they don't.

You are absolutely right to lobby  the politicians and get the word out there.

I know that if they want to they can pass any law they want if they can get a few votes.

When the European super league clubs announced they were off the government were to propose legislation to make it very difficult for them to do it.

Off topic, but the cladding scandal has seen them bring in laws retrospectively holding builders accountable for defects that weren't defects when the buildings were built, as they were compliant  with the standards of the day.

So, you just don't know what can happen, if anything at all.

However, we all do know what will happen if we do nothing at all.

All the best of luck for whatever you plan next to get Lai out.




Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on September 01, 2023, 04:02:46 AM
Wonder what his plan is, if he fails to sell soon he could lose everything.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on September 01, 2023, 07:52:35 AM
if there's anything left when this man has left our club i will celebrate like winning a cup
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: halifax_baggie on September 01, 2023, 08:41:59 AM
Wonder what his plan is, if he fails to sell soon he could lose everything.

Simple plan, reduce debt, reduce operating costs, this means doing anything and everything to reduce expenditure and maximise income for cash flow. sales of any assets to be expected. this is plan A B C ........ :(

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 01, 2023, 09:46:34 AM
Will J. Peace buy us off him? He'd make a nice profit.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: dangerman on September 01, 2023, 09:57:37 AM
Will J. Peace buy us off him? He'd make a nice profit.

He's made his money he was never fussed about the outcome of the club once he sold it. He gave us some good times but ultimately sold us to the highest bidder.

Even if he was interested in part 2, he'd wait until the very last moment to get the best bang for his buck as would most people who were trying to make some money.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on September 01, 2023, 10:29:42 AM
I despise Peace for what he did (yes I understand business but when it's Albion it's inexcusable).

I'd still take him in a heartbeat over Lai. At least he had a grasp of running the club/ getting the right people in to achieve that.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 01, 2023, 10:35:00 AM
I despise Peace for what he did (yes I understand business but when it's Albion it's inexcusable).

I'd still take him in a heartbeat over Lai. At least he had a grasp of running the club/ getting the right people in to achieve that.


Yep. Peace sold us to the highest bidder but he was always going too. He's in no way responsible for the 7 years of destruction caused by Lai. 2 separate things
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on September 01, 2023, 10:39:17 AM

Yep. Peace sold us to the highest bidder but he was always going too. He's in no way responsible for the 7 years of destruction caused by Lai. 2 separate things

He could have paid back the original loan when he got his money but he chose not to.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 01, 2023, 10:39:47 AM
He could have paid back the original loan when he got his money but he chose not to.

True and that is what has caused Lai to do absolutely nothing for 7 years. Poor old Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on September 01, 2023, 10:41:51 AM
True and that is what has caused Lai to do absolutely nothing for 7 years. Poor old Lai

To me they have both profited form our great club without investing.  Fingers crossed the next owner is more responsible (surely couldn't be worse ?)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 01, 2023, 11:26:41 AM
To me they have both profited form our great club without investing.  Fingers crossed the next owner is more responsible (surely couldn't be worse ?)

Extremely unlikely but possible I guess
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on September 01, 2023, 11:38:55 AM
To me they have both profited form our great club without investing.  Fingers crossed the next owner is more responsible (surely couldn't be worse ?)

Wouldn't bank on that, as things stand Lai will sell to anyone who is willing to pay his valuation of the club.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if it's another consortium.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 01, 2023, 11:42:02 AM
To me they have both profited form our great club without investing.  Fingers crossed the next owner is more responsible (surely couldn't be worse ?)

Peace profited.  I don’t think turning a £200m investment into maybe a £20m investment will turn out to result in Lai having profited!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 01, 2023, 11:44:40 AM
To me they have both profited form our great club without investing.  Fingers crossed the next owner is more responsible (surely couldn't be worse ?)

You never know Tam', there's some right dodgy Bassani's out there.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 01, 2023, 05:00:27 PM
Peace profited.  I don’t think turning a £200m investment into maybe a £20m investment will turn out to result in Lai having profited!
idiot will drag us into administration and in the process lose 200 million investment.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Gilsey 56 on September 01, 2023, 10:48:54 PM
idiot will drag us into administration and in the process lose 200 million investment.
I think that could well happen, but he will sell what he can first, no doubt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on September 01, 2023, 11:36:55 PM
Now the transfer window is over

Please please sell up


It’s time to go
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: leeiswba on September 02, 2023, 10:37:57 AM
Surely after yesterday there must be a takeover pretty close, we were told we needed to sell to basically continue as a football club
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Luke.jones12345 on September 02, 2023, 10:42:42 AM
Something tells me takeover isn’t far away,and I think corberan might know as he seems pretty content even though the board hasn’t giving him the amount of players they promised him at the end of the season ,maybe he knows something is pretty close
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: throstle on September 02, 2023, 11:03:33 AM

Yep. Peace sold us to the highest bidder but he was always going too. He's in no way responsible for the 7 years of destruction caused by Lai. 2 separate things

Peace can't be absolved of responsibility for year one (16/17). He picked up a generous salary as 'adviser' up to 30 June 2017, during which the disastrous appointments of Williams and Goodwin were made - the ramifications of which were felt during later years.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on September 02, 2023, 11:44:12 AM
Scratching my head here when hoping for a new owner, who in his right mind would take on a debt riddled club in short term for the owners valuation of £60 million with known legacy loans of £32 million plus interest. When in a year or two you can get a club in administration for a fraction of that with no debt.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 02, 2023, 12:29:14 PM
Peace can't be absolved of responsibility for year one (16/17). He picked up a generous salary as 'adviser' up to 30 June 2017, during which the disastrous appointments of Williams and Goodwin were made - the ramifications of which were felt during later years.

Lai had every opportunity to install his own staff and systems but (massive red flag 1 on day 1) he couldn't be bothered. He just walked off and paid someone else to look after the club without any care.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on September 02, 2023, 11:54:24 PM
Scratching my head here when hoping for a new owner, who in his right mind would take on a debt riddled club in short term for the owners valuation of £60 million with known legacy loans of £32 million plus interest. When in a year or two you can get a club in administration for a fraction of that with no debt.

The 60 million valuation includes debts. Lai would get circa £30m.

I would think something is close to happening tbh, otherwise we would have accepted the bid for BTA & a couple of the derisory bids we got for other players.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on September 03, 2023, 12:08:31 AM
The 60 million valuation includes debts. Lai would get circa £30m.

I would think something is close to happening tbh, otherwise we would have accepted the bid for BTA & a couple of the derisory bids we got for other players.

You will need more than 60 million to buy us, as there will be running costs of our high wage bill to take into consideration
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BAGGIE5 on September 03, 2023, 05:16:45 AM
Whats stopping Lai borrowing more against the club? I fear its nothing.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 03, 2023, 07:42:17 AM
Whats stopping Lai borrowing more against the club? I fear its nothing.

If Lai wants to borrow against his (Yunyai’s) shareholding in the club then that’s entirely his risk, not ours.  He can’t borrow more against the club itself because of the MSD debenture already in place.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 03, 2023, 07:46:44 AM
Scratching my head here when hoping for a new owner, who in his right mind would take on a debt riddled club in short term for the owners valuation of £60 million with known legacy loans of £32 million plus interest. When in a year or two you can get a club in administration for a fraction of that with no debt.

Hardly “debt-riddled”.  Just short of cash.  Less debt than probably two-thirds of the 24 clubs in the Championship.  Most of them owe massive debts to their shareholders.

Where do you get a figure of “£32 million plus interest” from?

But irrelevant really because the debt is included in the £60m asking price - which is exactly that, an asking price.  Doesn’t mean he’ll get it.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie96 on September 03, 2023, 07:50:32 AM
You will need more than 60 million to buy us, as there will be running costs of our high wage bill to take into consideration

Of course you would need more than 60m to run the club, however I imagine a new owner would want promotion over the next couple of years so will know they’d need to put funds in.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 03, 2023, 08:34:27 AM
If Lai wants to borrow against his (Yunyai’s) shareholding in the club then that’s entirely his risk, not ours.  He can’t borrow more against the club itself because of the MSD debenture already in place.
You’ve only had to repeat that how many times?
There will still be some on here think that Lai takes the money from the programme sellers outside the ground.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 03, 2023, 09:44:07 AM
You’ve only had to repeat that how many times?
There will still be some on here think that Lai takes the money from the programme sellers outside the ground.

I know - incredible after all this time!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 19, 2023, 04:30:15 PM
Percy

New - West Brom are in talks with potential new owners over a £50m takeover, to avoid a player fire sale. Parties from US & Middle East interested, with WBA intent on agreeing a deal this year. Club currently under big pressure to raise cash in Jan #wba
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on September 19, 2023, 04:46:14 PM
Percy

New - West Brom are in talks with potential new owners over a £50m takeover, to avoid a player fire sale. Parties from US & Middle East interested, with WBA intent on agreeing a deal this year. Club currently under big pressure to raise cash in Jan #wba




Nothing we already didn't  know. But somewhat worryingly that we are not close to a sale. These things take months and January not far away.

We need to sell soon
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tambag on September 19, 2023, 04:49:22 PM
Its good news that Lai may be hopefully sellling our great club. 

The bad news is Ken is in charge of selling us, so we could end up with worse owners !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on September 19, 2023, 04:49:56 PM



Nothing we already didn't  know. But somewhat worryingly that we are not close to a sale. These things take months and January not far away.

We need to sell soon


Tbf I didn't know we were in any serious talks.

Last I heard was the Blockchain guy who wants a small stake
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 19, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
F it. Let’s have some of that sport washing oil money!

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggie82 on September 19, 2023, 05:25:44 PM
Percy

New - West Brom are in talks with potential new owners over a £50m takeover, to avoid a player fire sale. Parties from US & Middle East interested, with WBA intent on agreeing a deal this year. Club currently under big pressure to raise cash in Jan #wba

The telegraph article is interesting, summary:

- Ken is leading the takeover talks with potential buyers from Middle East and USA. Club is available for sale for £50-60m. Talks are at an early stage. They are trying to get a sale agreed before January to avoid having to sell players in the January window.

-Bartley is on £35k a week (Devon will be delighted). We had talks about paying up his contract that didn’t go far.

-We turned down a £3m bid from Boro for Wallace this summer, as well as bids from Stoke for BTA and Coventry came in for Swift at the last minute, after deciding these bids were derisory / fire sale without time to bring replacements in. So pressure is on now to get new owners in or to look to sell players in January.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 19, 2023, 05:53:22 PM
We know we are for sale. The news is that face to face talks have taken place so things have progressed beyond the initial enquiry and both parties seem to think there is a deal to be done. US or Middle Eastern based is no big surprise given that those two regions with any interest in buying English football clubs.

That is all the good news because we are still potentially months away from any deal and the consequence of it not happening would seem to be more player sales in January (who and for how much is anybody's guess whatever was on the table for a player this summer is likely to be less in January)

However this turns out the end of the Lai era is in sight but the transition is not guaranteed to be painless.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Groovephil on September 19, 2023, 06:15:42 PM
I’ll be amazed if it’s done before the end of the year.

I really hope so mind and that we get some owners who want to take this wonderful club to a place it really deserves.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on September 19, 2023, 06:45:25 PM
Sell us to someone, get as many points as possible by Christmas, so sales don't mean we're relegated and hope to all that is good that the new owners want to, at worst, run us as a break even project that they can use for advertising or something. As long as the new owners aren't actively taking funds out the club it has to be a positive. It's just a crying shame that our relatively positive years seem to be over for now.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: lewisant on September 19, 2023, 09:10:18 PM
Sell us to someone, get as many points as possible by Christmas, so sales don't mean we're relegated and hope to all that is good that the new owners want to, at worst, run us as a break even project that they can use for advertising or something. As long as the new owners aren't actively taking funds out the club it has to be a positive. It's just a crying shame that our relatively positive years seem to be over for now.

It'll mean something to us all though if we can just get back to days similar to the 2010s ish, which as fans we began to take for granted. I mean, i'll take being the prototype yo-yo'ing club at this stage!

I see our team from 10-12 years ago and wonder what the hell happened, we were on the cusp of greater things and got it completely wrong.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 19, 2023, 10:11:59 PM
It'll mean something to us all though if we can just get back to days similar to the 2010s ish, which as fans we began to take for granted. I mean, i'll take being the prototype yo-yo'ing club at this stage!

I see our team from 10-12 years ago and wonder what the hell happened, we were on the cusp of greater things and got it completely wrong.

No just Peace wanted to line his own pockets, and couldn't give a damn about principles.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on September 20, 2023, 06:52:17 AM
good job this geezer dont live in this country, I've got a few names for him
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on September 20, 2023, 03:35:42 PM
Went on TalkSPORT with White and Jordan earlier. Link below, around 20 minutes in if people are interested.

https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1695200400/1695204000/
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: P Anderson on September 20, 2023, 05:55:20 PM
Good interview but cut off at the end. Informative though. Thanks
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on September 21, 2023, 08:25:45 PM
the price point for sale is astonishing considering the price paid. Lai has run the business in a disastrous manner. This is a lesson that the football business is not to be taken lightly and a hands off approach can result in 150m loss.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Nickwba1 on September 22, 2023, 05:02:59 AM
It was doomed from the start. Buying a premier league club with a good infrastructure (training ground, own ground etc), multiple seasons in the league and a high purchase price. Without further investment, I'm not sure exactly what Lai's exit strategy was to better his purchasing price...

Just hoping the ongoing incremental increase in the value of the league and club would be enough to cash out in 5-10 years' time. Pure risky and shows it's someone with exceptionally poor business acumen, shortsightedness and didn't look at the plethora or clubs in the 2 divisions below to understand what can happen.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 22, 2023, 03:24:24 PM
I have read a piece in the Express & Star which is essentially a rehash of the Percy's article and as such not worth the effort of posting here.

I do not wish to be critical of Mark Miles because he is doing a very difficult job and is trying to balance the needs of the playing squad with a desperate financial position. However if as reported, that in the absence of a sale that further player sales are required to get through the season, we needed to make more sales this summer. We can't run the club on the assumption of a sale. Kicking the can further down the road just makes the crunch worse when it arrives.

The only offer that was formally received was Stokes lowball offer for BTA and while it would have been generally seen as a terrible deal he will again one of the few players that will attract interest in January but if we are forced to sell the price won't be any better than it was in the last window.

Griffiths and Diangana were both seen as saleable and to an extent not essential, however whatever interest there was did not result in a bid. Neither is playing both will be out of contract in 2025 I think that option is best described as a busted flush. It to some extent shows that January is not a rerun of the previous window deals that might have happened last summer aren't necessarily going to be there in the following window. The contract clock click's down and the age clock clicks up neither is working to our advantage.

Having thought about this for a couple of days the Percy article is more bad news than good.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on September 22, 2023, 05:17:46 PM
The one that may entice an offer of some interest in Jan compared to Summer would surely be Diangana if he stays fit .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albion79 on September 22, 2023, 05:24:11 PM
I was talking to somebody yesterday who was heavily involved in the Blues takeover and advised in other takeovers too.

He said the americans who have taken over Blues plan is a sensible one but also very much business minded, their plan is to get to the premier league, establish themselves and then sell for a profit.

It sounds quite obvious but apparently most of the american groups taking over clubs, that is their plan, its not to create some dynasty like the arab or state owners of clubs, its not a vanity project, things like a trophy and europe are a bonus rather than a focus, its very much business with profit to be made.

He said he isnt aware of any americans talking to us but said he only looks out for certain groups so its not to say it isnt happening but with Blues and other takeovers its buy low and aim to sell high so with us i imagine any american buyers will wait til Lai drops his price very low or we go into administration before we have buyers, i dont see them buying us anywhere near what he values us at the moment.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on September 24, 2023, 08:27:20 PM
Papers today said we're talking with Americans. I swear I've heard this a few times before with Lai. I'm not sure whether I can take it seriously but hope it's true.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dexy on September 25, 2023, 10:26:46 AM
Papers today said we're talking with Americans. I swear I've heard this a few times before with Lai. I'm not sure whether I can take it seriously but hope it's true.
Any link mate ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tex on September 26, 2023, 03:55:28 PM
no news by late November and we should start to worry. Deals are very rarely publicized until late in the process.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 26, 2023, 04:37:29 PM
If we are looking at a completion by the end of the year something concrete e.g. a preferred bidder has to emerge by the end of October. Today I would assume that there won't be a deal until there is a significant update to suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on September 26, 2023, 04:52:51 PM
If we are looking at a completion by the end of the year something concrete e.g. a preferred bidder has to emerge by the end of October. Today I would assume that there won't be a deal until there is a significant update to suggest otherwise.

Due diligence is going to be a bummer if the ownership graphic is to be believed. Or, is down to holdings to sort that once they sell WBAFC ?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on September 26, 2023, 05:55:00 PM
Due diligence is going to be a bummer if the ownership graphic is to be believed. Or, is down to holdings to sort that once they sell WBAFC ?

The due diligence is relatively straight forward in that the Holdings and WBA are both UK based entities. Obviously whoever buys the club has to satisfy themselves that Lai or his representatives have the authority to sell what they are buying which is where the complex web of cross holdings might make the sale more complicated.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SedgleyAlbion on September 27, 2023, 11:16:23 AM
Due diligence is going to be a bummer if the ownership graphic is to be believed. Or, is down to holdings to sort that once they sell WBAFC ?

The ownership diagram was designed to get the national media to take note. Due diligence will only be on Yunyi, which will be straightforward as there’s only one transaction in its history. Nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 27, 2023, 01:26:49 PM
Just wondering would our sale be under uk or international law?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: johnny Cash on September 27, 2023, 07:00:54 PM
Just wondering would our sale be under uk or international law?

International Law is a bit of a misnomer. It tend to relate to how countries cooperate with each other.

It’ll be a purchase of holdings under the law as of England and Wales in my opinion, the other option being Jersey I think. Although in theory they could put something in the contract to allow other jurisdictions to apply / adjudicate on any disputes
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on September 27, 2023, 08:28:27 PM
Thanks for your input Johnny, lets hope its not under Chinese law, if they have any, eh?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: section5 on September 27, 2023, 08:57:43 PM
Majority would be under U.K. law because the club operates within the U.K., and its legal and financial matters are subject to U.K. jurisdiction. There will be some considerations to Chinese law like ownership transfers and taxation. If it’s an international buyer with foreign finance then there might be another countries laws to consider but with the amount of international transactions like these that go on it shouldn’t provide too many hurdles.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on September 27, 2023, 10:09:49 PM
The due diligence is relatively straight forward in that the Holdings and WBA are both UK based entities. Obviously whoever buys the club has to satisfy themselves that Lai or his representatives have the authority to sell what they are buying which is where the complex web of cross holdings might make the sale more complicated.

Surely it’s just the clean Jersey company selling its 88% holding in Group?  That takes Holdings out of it completely, which is why the Jersey company was interposed in the first place.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on September 28, 2023, 11:50:53 PM
Our friend Dood has tweeted ‘heard positive thing about the takeover, getting closer week by week’

Brilliant, so informative, my cat told me that a week ago but Doods the man👍
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on September 29, 2023, 08:48:19 AM
Our friend Dood has tweeted ‘heard positive thing about the takeover, getting closet week by week’

Brilliant, so informative, my cat told me that a week ago but Doods the man👍

Meow, meow, meow  ;) .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on October 05, 2023, 11:44:59 PM
Read on wba news, I know it's dog turd, but some professor was saying it was yanks who are buying us.

If they can bring some sort of any plan with them instead of some attention seeker ponzi scheme peddler like Brady , then we can fly again.

Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Topman on February 15, 2024, 09:59:58 PM
Good bye and good riddance. Can we lock 🔒
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 15, 2024, 10:02:12 PM
Good bye and good riddance. Can we lock 🔒

Not yet, I need to thank Mr Lai for

SOD ALL !!!  and almost destroying my faith in football

now close it please
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: jimmyj on February 15, 2024, 10:11:40 PM
Need to leave this open for a week.
Like a book of condolences, except it's us telling Lai where to go forth to multiply.   :D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 15, 2024, 10:15:11 PM
Need to leave this open for a week.
Like a book of condolences, except it's us telling Lai where to go forth to multiply.   :D
trouble is the expletives are scrubbed (correctly) will read like a redacted Cabinet meeting minutes
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on February 15, 2024, 10:20:30 PM
As soon as Lai sells close this down forever lets not mention this fellas name anymore
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: timdon on February 15, 2024, 11:16:44 PM
trouble is the expletives are scrubbed (correctly) will read like a redacted Cabinet meeting minutes
Although under normal conditions I'm completely on board with the ban on expletives, I really feel like swearing (a lot) on this thread. Maybe the mods would authorise a 24 hour collective blind eye to allow us all to get everything off our chests (only joking, I know it won't happen  ;D)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: TheBaggieMan on February 15, 2024, 11:42:18 PM
🎵 Goodbyee, Goodbyee, Guochuan Lai wipe a tear from your eyee !
 It’s not hard for you go, and we’re just tickled to death to see you go ! 🎵
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: wba_1996 on February 16, 2024, 12:07:31 AM
Bought for £207m, sold for £60m, but £40m of that is to repay the loans.

A tidy £187m loss for Lai & co. Thoroughly deserved for 8 years of being inept ****.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: saml30 on February 16, 2024, 12:08:02 AM
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out!


Actually do  ;D
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: darbolina on February 16, 2024, 01:19:52 AM
Lai over and out
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on February 16, 2024, 06:08:26 AM
An appalling ‘owner’ and businessman. Couldn’t run a bath….

Sex and travel Lai😉
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Standaman on February 16, 2024, 06:29:11 AM
It is a sad indictment of the game but as bad as Lai has been if you drew up an all time rogues gallery of bad football club owners I doubt he gets into the top 10 on the least wanted list.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: liverbaggie on February 16, 2024, 08:42:10 AM
But hes top of our list mate and thats what matters to us
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: overseas baggie on February 16, 2024, 08:46:04 AM
But hes top of our list mate and thats what matters to us

Spot on!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on February 16, 2024, 09:11:28 AM
turned the best part of 200m into about 15m after loans paid off.

he's lost 185m of other peoples money, hope he likes being locked in small rooms and let out for an hour a day.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 16, 2024, 09:14:38 AM
I hope he has a thoroughly miserable existence going forward.

Hopefully this is the last of our club being used as a credit card to prop up failing businesses.

I'd say goodbye in normal circumstances but I much prefer **** off.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBAinDEVON on February 16, 2024, 09:18:39 AM
quite possibly our worst ever owner, that includes trev the shed and tony hale
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on February 16, 2024, 09:36:06 AM
Get lost Mr Lai the worst owner and only the 2nd owner I remember us having, Peace wasn't perfect but God this man was truly terrible I would use expletives but obviously Forum rules.
What an utter rat so glad he can now finally do one.
So once again Goodbye Mr Lai take your bunch of cronies out of B71 and never return.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Dan on February 16, 2024, 09:47:32 AM
It is a wonder someone so staggeringly poor of  a businessman got into the position he was in in the first half place. The warning signs were there from day one when he massively overpaid for a club that the owner was desperate to sell, and would only retain its value by staying in the premier league. Except our only plan for staying in the premier league seemed to be going that pulís record of no relegations would last forever. Beyond that it’s clear he knew nothing about football, and has been continuously taken for a ride by terrible appointments of “football men”. He came in claiming we’d keep running sustainably, unlike a lot of terrible owners he never promised the earth, he was just incredibly incompetent at seemingly everything. It will I guess forever be a mystery of what he expected to happen owning this club.

Thankfully he at least sold us, taking on a massive loss, rather than holding on to the club was in the ashes . As bad as he was, you only have to look at the likes of reading to see it could have ended far worse.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 16, 2024, 10:07:10 AM
For me he was hoping to do well off the back of HS2 or simply through growth in value through remaining in the PL.

Both vanished very quickly once he took over.

I kind of wish he and his pals had lost everything but ultimately, never at the expense of our club.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 16, 2024, 10:11:27 AM
For me he was hoping to do well off the back of HS2

Genuine question how would he have done well off the back of HS2?
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 16, 2024, 10:27:01 AM
There was a report done by someone who specialised in the Chinese economy which suggested that Chinese consortiums had taken an interest in Midlands club to benefit their steel productions off the back of HS2.

Lai, if he specialises in anything, would surely have seen some property developments to accompany the HS2 works which would have made us an attractive prospect to his investors.

However, HS2 stalled and the Chinese Government pulled up the draw bridge and the rest is history.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on February 16, 2024, 10:30:59 AM
There was a report done by someone who specialised in the Chinese economy which suggested that Chinese consortiums had taken an interest in Midlands club to benefit their steel productions off the back of HS2.

Lai, if he specialises in anything, would surely have seen some property developments to accompany the HS2 works which would have made us an attractive prospect to his investors.

However, HS2 stalled and the Chinese Government pulled up the draw bridge and the rest is history.

the chinese were also looking at a lot of local based steel companies but then the chinese government pulled the plug on letting money out of the country.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 16, 2024, 10:43:21 AM
Genuine question how would he have done well off the back of HS2?

Liams response pretty much answered this.

I don't know about anyone else but i am absolutely buzzing still!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: Albionic on February 16, 2024, 10:47:24 AM
Liams response pretty much answered this.

I don't know about anyone else but i am absolutely buzzing still!

yep, likewise Gaz, not expecting a lot better than what we have currently in terms of the footballing side, but there is a huge upside for the club potentially
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: WBArgo on February 16, 2024, 11:01:14 AM
There was a report done by someone who specialised in the Chinese economy which suggested that Chinese consortiums had taken an interest in Midlands club to benefit their steel productions off the back of HS2.

Lai, if he specialises in anything, would surely have seen some property developments to accompany the HS2 works which would have made us an attractive prospect to his investors.

However, HS2 stalled and the Chinese Government pulled up the draw bridge and the rest is history.

Yes, I remember seeing a Youtube video on this a few years back as us, Wolves, and Villa all had Chinese owners around that time before their government pulled the plug. Because of this, I also believe that Fosun will eventually leave the Wolves within the next few seasons as the money has gone and it's no longer worth it. This can be seen with their lack of recent investment, coupled with the Chinese stock market bombing last week.

Basically, normality looks to be around the corner as far as black country football is concerned  8)
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on February 16, 2024, 11:48:50 AM
Ding Dong the witch is dead, the witch is dead, the witch is dead... Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead..

Never can I remember feeling such an affinity with the munchkins from the Wizard of Oz as when I read that there was an agreement in place for us to be sold.. The new owners SURELY cannot be as bad as Lai, I am very scared what they find "under the hood", but hopefully the time starts now at rebuilding this great club.

I admit I know close to nothing of the new owner, but i knew he isn't Lai and right now that is enough for me
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: AlbionBest on February 16, 2024, 11:52:16 AM
Bye bye Lai!

Confined to history thankfully.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: BalisPen on February 16, 2024, 12:40:05 PM
Brilliant to see him go, but let's also attribute some hate to the **** who let him in, and lined his pockets and left an unpaid £4m loan, which is still being scrutinised.

The recommendation to employ Williams and Goodman (dumb and dumber) was like a final f you from a departing vile fan.

After those imbeciles Lai employed moron after moron, apart from Jenkins.

When he had it, he wasted many millions on breaking our transfer record on a Burke, etc, etc.

He said the club would be run as before, and stuck to his word until he starting using us as his bank.

We just hope and pray that SP employs the right people and has the right plan to go forward.

Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: The Tank on February 16, 2024, 01:59:55 PM
Too true. His predecessor took a lot more out of the club than Lai ever managed.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 16, 2024, 04:00:02 PM
Gazberg, like you, yes I'm still buzzing! I think we all are.

I bet CC is!!!

COYB!
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on February 16, 2024, 04:40:09 PM
quite possibly our worst ever owner, that includes trev the shed and tony hale

To be fair, both of them were well meaning amateurs who had the interest of the club at heart. They just didn’t have the money.
If as is suggested there was something like 1100 investors under Lai, he was never going to invest in the club,  regardless of the fact that the Chinese pulled the plug on overseas sports investment because quite simply, he didn’t have the capital. He could hardly go back to the 1100 investors and ask for a bit up front for a new player could he?


So pleased about this takeover
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: DevonInStripes on February 16, 2024, 11:07:44 PM
I take it Ken will be on his way , if he hasn’t already cleared his desk in anticipation………
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: paulosull on February 16, 2024, 11:46:22 PM
If I walked around for six years with a hole in duffle bag stuffed with 200 million pounds I wouldn’t have lost as much as this clown did. :o
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: mateinone on February 17, 2024, 02:45:48 AM
Too true. His predecessor took a lot more out of the club than Lai ever managed.

The Peace hatred is pretty astonishing to me and always has been.
We were so bad for so many years and I had a hell of a lot of joy as a supporter during the time Peace was in charge and the club was in a far better position when he left, than when he took over.

I understand people didn't like some of his dealings, but by almost any measure I can think of, he was a successful owner of the club. The absolute  opposite is true of Lai
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: buzzingbaggie on February 17, 2024, 07:41:11 AM
The Peace hatred is pretty astonishing to me and always has been.
We were so bad for so many years and I had a hell of a lot of joy as a supporter during the time Peace was in charge and the club was in a far better position when he left, than when he took over.

I understand people didn't like some of his dealings, but by almost any measure I can think of, he was a successful owner of the club. The absolute  opposite is true of Lai

Second this.

We were brilliant under Peace, best years for me watching the club.

People get obsessed with him selling to Lai, he sold to the highest bidder. Who out of us would reject the highest bid if we were selling our business, home or anything else?

Were no longer a community asset, were a business and businesses are profit motivated.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 17, 2024, 07:55:16 AM
The Peace hatred is pretty astonishing to me and always has been.
We were so bad for so many years and I had a hell of a lot of joy as a supporter during the time Peace was in charge and the club was in a far better position when he left, than when he took over.

I understand people didn't like some of his dealings, but by almost any measure I can think of, he was a successful owner of the club. The absolute  opposite is true of Lai
Agree
It’s almost like the spurs fans that moan about Levy…there ain’t no pleasing some.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 17, 2024, 08:12:08 AM
Peace sold to the highest bidder. That was his right.

No gripes with that from me.

If I sell someone a car and they drive it through a wall and ruin it then I'm not angry with the person who sold it, I'd be looking at the bloke responsible
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on February 17, 2024, 08:30:24 AM
Peace sold to the highest bidder. That was his right.

No gripes with that from me.

If I sell someone a car and they drive it through a wall and ruin it then I'm not angry with the person who sold it, I'd be looking at the bloke responsible

Do you have any gripes about him borrowing money from the club not to buy the remains shares he wanted in order to sell the club and then not pay it back? I do…
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 17, 2024, 08:57:40 AM
Do you have any gripes about him borrowing money from the club not to buy the remains shares he wanted in order to sell the club and then not pay it back? I do…

Lai didn't have any gripes with it. Same as Patel buying off Lai. Everyone knew the score
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on February 17, 2024, 09:08:05 AM
Lai didn't have any gripes with it. Same as Patel buying off Lai. Everyone knew the score

Not sure Lai knew to be honest. He had in effect bought the same shares twice. It would be good to have some clarification on the Peace ‘loan’, as in is he still liable? If not then is the legal action with S4A still continuing?

I understand your position regarding Peace selling it to the highest bidder, and he did bring the club into the 21st century, but all the ‘life long Albion fan’ rubbish and this murky loan business left a very sour taste for me. Complete lack of integrity.


Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 17, 2024, 09:12:51 AM
Not sure Lai knew to be honest. He had in effect bought the same shares twice. It would be good to have some clarification on the Peace ‘loan’, as in is he still liable? If not then is the legal action with S4A still continuing?

I understand your position regarding Peace selling it to the highest bidder, and he did bring the club into the 21st century, but all the ‘life long Albion fan’ rubbish and this murky loan business left a very sour taste for me. Complete lack of integrity.

If Lai didn't know and it's proved that got shafted on that loan then I would not be happy as that's crooked from Peace but surely Lai isn't that clueless? Same time it is Lai so maybe


I never believed the stuff Peace said about being a super wba fan etc. He always came across as purely a businessman to me
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: skyclad99 on February 17, 2024, 09:17:35 AM
If Lai didn't know and it's proved that got shafted on that loan then I would not be happy as that's crooked from Peace but surely Lai isn't that clueless? Same time it is Lai so maybe


I never believed the stuff Peace said about being a super wba fan etc. He always came across as purely a businessman to me


If I was Patel I would not be happy taking on other folks debts. I assume Lai’s borrowing has been offset in the price paid, but it would be nice to know about Peace’s liability
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 18, 2024, 10:34:54 AM
Lepkowski posted an article. Not a lot I and others haven't said about Lai himself but Lai has managed to obtain some bonus payments if we get into PL now he's gone.  10m extra on top of the 60m for every season we are in the PL over a limited period of time (upto 5 years maximum)

EDIT - https://chrislepkowski.wixsite.com/the-far-post/post/i-m-not-going to-lai-i-m-relieved
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: tylerm on February 18, 2024, 10:52:59 AM

If I was Patel I would not be happy taking on other folks debts. I assume Lai’s borrowing has been offset in the price paid, but it would be nice to know about Peace’s liability

Apparently the £60 million purchase price is £40 million to take the loans and £20 million to Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 18, 2024, 10:55:25 AM
Apparently the £60 million purchase price is £40 million to take the loans and £20 million to Lai.

Yes the club cost 20m or so. The rest includes the debts. Patel is fully aware
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: hardtobeat on February 18, 2024, 11:11:17 AM
If you expand that financial arguement a wealthy Prem league club could f rules allowed have bought us for less than Chelsea paid for Kepa !
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: baggiejohn on February 18, 2024, 11:23:29 AM

If I was Patel I would not be happy taking on other folks debts. I assume Lai’s borrowing has been offset in the price paid, but it would be nice to know about Peace’s liability

I'm not sure that Peace has a liability any more. Lai would have agreed to take responsibilty for Peace's debt in exchange for a reduction in the price of the Holdings company which Lai purchased.

Patel has taken on the outstanding MSD loans, &, I believe, the outstanding wisdom smart & inherited Peace loans. The warmfront loan is an agreement between warmfront & Lai, & is not part of the purchase agreement.

Personally, I would expect the wisdom smart & Peace loans to be made good during this financial year, but I wouldn't be surprised if the MSD loans were continued to maturity to help with cash flow.
Especially, if the club is committed to £10million a year as a promotion bonus to Lai.
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: SmethDan on February 20, 2024, 09:16:01 AM
Lepkowski posted an article. Not a lot I and others haven't said about Lai himself but Lai has managed to obtain some bonus payments if we get into PL now he's gone.  10m extra on top of the 60m for every season we are in the PL over a limited period of time (upto 5 years maximum)

EDIT - https://chrislepkowski.wixsite.com/the-far-post/post/i-m-not-going to-lai-i-m-relieved

Cheeky little git's clearly not quite as stupid as his track record with us suggests. Unless we don't get promoted in the next five years of course........  :-X .
Title: Re: Guochuan Lai
Post by: gazberg on February 20, 2024, 11:41:46 AM
Cheeky little git's clearly not quite as stupid as his track record with us suggests. Unless we don't get promoted in the next five years of course........  :-X .

I don't see us spending more than 2 seasons there in honesty unless Patel is conjuring up some cash.