Author Topic: Dwight Gayle (at Newcastle)  (Read 234857 times)

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Scooby Doo

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #850 on: June 17, 2019, 02:28:53 PM »
Dwight Gayle is a terrific goal scorer of that there is absolutely no doubt. Ultimately it will come down to how Bilic wants to set his side up.

What Gayle did show though is that he scored those goals on scraps. How well would he fair in a team capable of keeping the ball and creating chances? Or just attacking with purpose?

More of a concern for me is the lack of goals from elsewhere last season. Strengthening the three behind the striker and utilising the loan market for a striker may well be how Bilic will want to do things.

BUT if you go and pay one player X amount how good is that for the dressing room? That's why I'd be so reluctant to sign Gayle.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #851 on: June 17, 2019, 02:58:04 PM »
9 players scored 20+ goals in the championship last season, so 7 other clubs managed to have 20+ goalscorers, just maybe they aren't the rarity they're being made out to be.

and 17 clubs didn't
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #852 on: June 17, 2019, 03:00:42 PM »
Dwight Gayle is a terrific goal scorer of that there is absolutely no doubt. Ultimately it will come down to how Bilic wants to set his side up.

What Gayle did show though is that he scored those goals on scraps. How well would he fair in a team capable of keeping the ball and creating chances? Or just attacking with purpose?

More of a concern for me is the lack of goals from elsewhere last season. Strengthening the three behind the striker and utilising the loan market for a striker may well be how Bilic will want to do things.

BUT if you go and pay one player X amount how good is that for the dressing room? That's why I'd be so reluctant to sign Gayle.

All football clubs have a vast spread of wages and seem to manage the dressing room ok. Another poster above has mentioned that there are 9 other 20+ goals per year strikers, however I'd guess that they are going to cost somewhere in the region of £10 million to buy.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #853 on: June 17, 2019, 03:23:02 PM »
I would be the first to say I would love Gayle back here but it's simply not going to happen.

It's all well and good saying we can factor in some of the wages in the Rondon deal, or that we have already saved money on Barry and Morrison, but let's not forget we are already around 8-10 players short in the squad compared to 2 months ago.

We have to bring in at least 4-6 genuine first team players, majority of which will be on decent enough wages.

The only way the Gayle deal ever happened would be if for some strange reason he was happy to come here on 30k a week, which isn't going to happen.

There are players out there who we can look to pick up and score some goals, Pukki, Maupay, McBurnie, Che Adams, Vydra, Grabban have all scored over 20 goals (either last season or the season before) so there are players out there who will score the goals and cost us less.

For me the biggest problem this club has got is to get some midfielders in who can actually score some goals and get close to double figures. Excluding Matt Phillips we don't have anyone even capable of coming close to that.
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NJS

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #854 on: June 17, 2019, 04:04:26 PM »
Putting all your finance eggs into one basket rarely works; it's a team game.  What about if he got a serious injury?
Gayle dives and antagonises refs.  That throw-in nonsense in the play-offs was sheer stupidity and meant that we were short of penalty takers in the final act.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #855 on: June 17, 2019, 04:39:05 PM »
Putting all your finance eggs into one basket rarely works; it's a team game.  What about if he got a serious injury?
Gayle dives and antagonises refs.  That throw-in nonsense in the play-offs was sheer stupidity and meant that we were short of penalty takers in the final act.


We'd have won the 2nd leg by a street had Gayle and the referee not been utterly stupid at VP.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #856 on: June 17, 2019, 04:49:21 PM »
Mister AT, out of those players you listed, how many are available and what would the transfer fee and wages be?

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #857 on: June 17, 2019, 04:58:11 PM »
1) What would we get in return: the best striker in the championship, a goal machine who is 29 this year not 34 as some of the posters imply.
2) If we don't go back up we can't afford fro keep him / we can't afford his wages if we don't go up: Not true, no reason why the sale of Rondon can't fund his wages over 2/3 years. We have already removed Barry, Morrison, Hoolahan, Mears & Myhill from the wages.
3) We can't mortgage the sale of the club based on signing one player - agreed but that's not the case, scare mongering. If Newcastle will compromise by paying us circa £6m plus Gayle for Rondon (or another club buys him at his clause and Newcastle accept £10m for Gayle) then no reason why we can't try to resign him. We have the flexibility with all parachute money, player sales, squad size.

£10m on Gayle over three years is a good investment, you get what you pay for with him. Bear in mind every chance of J-Rod going as well so that would be £26m in him and Rondon alone. The idea that the club would be risking it's financial future doesn't add up when you look at the income, player assets and wages.

I can't see the first happening, it's basically a swap. Newcastle can sit it out until January or even the end of the season and sign him at a cut price or for free and keep Gayle (who has 2 years left on his contract). I also
 doubt anyone else will trigger the release clause when he has a year left on his contract.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #858 on: June 17, 2019, 05:46:44 PM »
I can't see the first happening, it's basically a swap. Newcastle can sit it out until January or even the end of the season and sign him at a cut price or for free and keep Gayle (who has 2 years left on his contract). I also
 doubt anyone else will trigger the release clause when he has a year left on his contract.

I don't think Newcastle will have the luxury of sitting it out and waiting 12 months for his contract to run down, £16m is fairly small change for a premier league club and I suspect Rondon has done enough to persuade one of the other teams outside the top six to make a move for him.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #859 on: June 17, 2019, 06:17:23 PM »
All football clubs have a vast spread of wages and seem to manage the dressing room ok. Another poster above has mentioned that there are 9 other 20+ goals per year strikers, however I'd guess that they are going to cost somewhere in the region of £10 million to buy.

He'll be earning nearly 50% more than any other player though which is a huge figure and it's not as if he's a huge name.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #860 on: June 17, 2019, 06:55:00 PM »
And if Gayle snaps his cruciate first game of the season you'll all be happy with HRK as our starting striker because we spent all of our wage budget on one player? Thought not.

I despise Jenkins and the way he runs the club, but we're stuck with him, so we might as well do things sensibly under his financial restrictions. We aren't getting another £16m once Rondon's gone, the fact people would happily gamble all of that on Gayle blows my mind.


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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #861 on: June 17, 2019, 07:00:35 PM »
And if Gayle snaps his cruciate first game of the season you'll all be happy with HRK as our starting striker because we spent all of our wage budget on one player? Thought not.

I despise Jenkins and the way he runs the club, but we're stuck with him, so we might as well do things sensibly under his financial restrictions. We aren't getting another £16m once Rondon's gone, the fact people would happily gamble all of that on Gayle blows my mind.

Every signing is a gamble but Gayle is proven and the most risk free certainty of a quality goalscorer we can find. I’m not sure why replacing Rondon with Gayle blows your mind. We take our insurance like all clubs against the cost of long term injuries.

wba_1996

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #862 on: June 17, 2019, 07:08:04 PM »
Every signing is a gamble but Gayle is proven and the most risk free certainty of a quality goalscorer we can find. I’m not sure why replacing Rondon with Gayle blows your mind. We take our insurance like all clubs against the cost of long term injuries.

Because that's £16m on one player. We need 8-10 of good/decent quality to compete for automatic promotion. That one player has very little resale value if we don't get promoted.

I'd rather we picked up 3 younger strikers for £5m each, on say £20k per week. Then we have resale value and we aren't relying on one player all season.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #863 on: June 17, 2019, 07:10:59 PM »
Rondon was voted Newcastle player of the season last year, I don't think they can afford not to go for him. Simply because if they struggle for goals next year without Rondon, the manager and the board will get a real rough ride.

So if Rondon goes to Newcastle I cannot see that happening without Gayle being part of the deal.

If it doesn't happen then Rondon is still our player and he will play in the championship.  I wonder how much his wages are ???  At least £50k a week. 

So either way we will be paying out big wages .

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #864 on: June 17, 2019, 07:11:21 PM »
and 17 clubs didn't

I don't need a maths lesson thanks, I was pointing out that 20+ goal scorers aren't as difficult to find as some are suggesting. 
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #865 on: June 17, 2019, 07:19:36 PM »
I don't need a maths lesson thanks, I was pointing out that 20+ goal scorers aren't as difficult to find as some are suggesting.

In that case I'm sure you could suggest some names to Mr Bilic . After all there are loads about !!

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #866 on: June 17, 2019, 07:40:41 PM »
I don't need a maths lesson thanks, I was pointing out that 20+ goal scorers aren't as difficult to find as some are suggesting.
Really? Not being funny but can you name 5 because I'm struggling.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #867 on: June 17, 2019, 07:47:33 PM »
Because that's £16m on one player. We need 8-10 of good/decent quality to compete for automatic promotion. That one player has very little resale value if we don't get promoted.

I'd rather we picked up 3 younger strikers for £5m each, on say £20k per week. Then we have resale value and we aren't relying on one player all season.

Who are these mysterious young £5m strikers? Didn’t James McClean get sold for £5m? The way the market is now £5m gets you nothing. Anyone young with quality attracts a far higher fee precisely because of their resale value.

Aside from using Rondon sale to get Gayle we have the parachute payment of £41.6m, season ticket and commercial income plus any player sales. So we have a budget of around £50m. What’s our wage bill now? I’d guess £35m tops given the small squad size. If we sell J-Rod that’s another £10m to reinvest. Ditto Dawson or Phillips so we still have some wriggle room.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #868 on: June 17, 2019, 08:36:59 PM »
I don't need a maths lesson thanks, I was pointing out that 20+ goal scorers aren't as difficult to find as some are suggesting.

Dear Slaven,
                  there are loads of 20+ a season goal scorers out there why not try..................(feel free to fill in the blank spaces
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #869 on: June 17, 2019, 08:39:49 PM »
Mister AT, out of those players you listed, how many are available and what would the transfer fee and wages be?

The point is there are players out there, we just have to hope Bilic and the scouts can find a couple for reasonable prices.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #870 on: June 17, 2019, 09:17:16 PM »
I think we need to trust Bilic, firstly I can't see us bringing Gayle in permanently under ANY circumstances, secondly I have my doubts as to whether Bilic would want him.


If a deal can be done AND Slaven is keen then I'm all for it, but if he has other ideas (and I'm sure he does) I will be equally happy with that outcome.


We have finally got an attacking manager with pedigree (something we have not had since the 80s) and I'm happy to go along with his choices in attack.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #871 on: June 17, 2019, 09:35:46 PM »
Who are these mysterious young £5m strikers? Didn’t James McClean get sold for £5m? The way the market is now £5m gets you nothing. Anyone young with quality attracts a far higher fee precisely because of their resale value.

Aside from using Rondon sale to get Gayle we have the parachute payment of £41.6m, season ticket and commercial income plus any player sales. So we have a budget of around £50m. What’s our wage bill now? I’d guess £35m tops given the small squad size. If we sell J-Rod that’s another £10m to reinvest. Ditto Dawson or Phillips so we still have some wriggle room.

It's not my job to find them, that's why we have a scouting system. McClean is yet another example of the overpriced, PL-experienced dross that we desperately need to be moving away from.

There's a bunch of strikers around Europe of a similar or better calibre than the likes of Pukki or Maupay were before they came to England, many of whom we could easily attract and for far less money than we'd need to spend on Gayle.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #872 on: June 17, 2019, 09:42:26 PM »
Really? Not being funny but can you name 5 because I'm struggling.

Pukki, Abraham, Maupay, Sharp, Gayle, Rodriguez, McBurnie, Adams, Bowen. That's 9 last season alone, one of which didn't even play as a striker. There's also not many players in that list who I would take as more than a back-up if we were in the Prem. Doesn't take a special player to hit 20 in this league, just a good finisher and a team that creates plenty of chances.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #873 on: June 17, 2019, 09:45:15 PM »
Mister AT, out of those players you listed, how many are available and what would the transfer fee and wages be?

I think the point is - they had to be discovered by the clubs that bought them and that's what we need to do. For Example; Pukki. If we were linked with him people would look at his record. 7 in 26 in the SPL? 8 in 37 for Schalke? Sure he did well in the Danish league, but that's the Danish League. But at Norwich it clicked. I think they signed him for 2 million euros.

We were linked with Grabban in the past and most fans turned their noses up but look how many goals he scored. McGoldrick at Sheff Utd, linked with him and we turned our noses up and he bosses us at The Hawthorns and had a great season.

Loans - Tammy Abraham, Dwight Gayle. Let's find another loan?!

Then there are the players that are unattractive and boring but get goals at this level.

Dwight Gayle is amazing at this level and i'd love to see him in a Baggies shirt BUT i completely understand why it wouldn't happen.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #874 on: June 17, 2019, 10:00:14 PM »
I think we should be looking at the likes of Jamal Lowe, Ivan Toney, Tyler Walker from Forest who scored 22 for Mansfield last year.
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