Author Topic: Darren Moore  (Read 843848 times)

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iwastherein68

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2900 on: February 09, 2019, 02:19:55 PM »
I must start with offering a 100% agreement with the quoted post above
OK I'm not sure how long the mods will tolerate this post and the replies it may draw but after some of the vitriol flying around, and not necessarily on this board which does tend to self regulate pretty effectively, I feel a need to put out there something that has been bothering me almost since the day Darren's appointment was announced.
I have to wonder how much of the bad mouthing of DM is being driven more by the colour of his skin than his ability as a coach?
It may just be a subconscious or covert thing or perhaps it's more overt?
Because of the very nature of what I am extrapolating here it is something I have been, and still am, reluctant to verbalise openly but this last week has made me think enough is enough especially after the childish attempts by certain parts of the media to racialise the Bong song/chant. We might think we have 'kicked it out' but I have grave doubts if we really have both in football and wider society 
Lets try to keep this sensible guys if you do wish to add your own thoughts to my musings
Yes that must be the same reason that Brunt, Johnstone, Morrison, Barry , Field,  Hoolahan, and Burke get criticized too.
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2901 on: February 09, 2019, 02:21:57 PM »
From day one in the summer I felt that top 6 would be an achievement and still feel the same way now. We are not there yet so I agree that there is no rush to be handing out new contracts. For me he is doing a very good job nonetheless.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2902 on: February 09, 2019, 02:30:14 PM »
It's what many of us expected considering the mess we were in start of the season. Top 6 beats expectations, promotion would be amazing.

Top 6 beats expectations with our squad? Come off it!

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2903 on: February 09, 2019, 02:34:29 PM »
Genuinely amazes me that some expectations are still so low. I can sort of understand why they may have been at the start of the season, but having shown we can take Leeds apart, dominate Sheffield United and get 4 points from Norwich, shouldn’t expectations change?

Who should be finishing above us exactly and why, let alone 5 teams? It’s certainly not because they have better players, so are there 5 better managers?

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2904 on: February 09, 2019, 02:34:35 PM »
Top 6 beats expectations with our squad? Come off it!

A squad of players assembled by a manager you want shot of? ???
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2905 on: February 09, 2019, 02:36:42 PM »
A squad of players assembled by a manager you want shot of? ???

Blimey...

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2906 on: February 09, 2019, 02:37:33 PM »
Genuinely amazes me that some expectations are still so low. I can sort of understand why they may have been at the start of the season, but having shown we can take Leeds apart, dominate Sheffield United and get 4 points from Norwich, shouldn’t expectations change?

Who should be finishing above us exactly and why, let alone 5 teams? It’s certainly not because they have better players, so are there 5 better managers?

Injurys and suspension into the run up for one. Take the best 3 players out of any top 6 team and they would struggle, as we have. I'm glad Moore has strengthen in the right areas as losing Barnes, Gayle and Phillips in the run up without the new signings would put us outside top 6.
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2907 on: February 09, 2019, 02:42:16 PM »
I must start with offering a 100% agreement with the quoted post above
OK I'm not sure how long the mods will tolerate this post and the replies it may draw but after some of the vitriol flying around, and not necessarily on this board which does tend to self regulate pretty effectively, I feel a need to put out there something that has been bothering me almost since the day Darren's appointment was announced.
I have to wonder how much of the bad mouthing of DM is being driven more by the colour of his skin than his ability as a coach?
It may just be a subconscious or covert thing or perhaps it's more overt?
Because of the very nature of what I am extrapolating here it is something I have been, and still am, reluctant to verbalise openly but this last week has made me think enough is enough especially after the childish attempts by certain parts of the media to racialise the Bong song/chant. We might think we have 'kicked it out' but I have grave doubts if we really have both in football and wider society 
Lets try to keep this sensible guys if you do wish to add your own thoughts to my musings


Tactically (the back 3) at times the criticism has been valid (if wildly over the top) but I'm sorry stuff like he's thick, sounds thick in interviews, etc I believe that feeds far more into your theory and have have done for most of his tenure.


Regards success, he's done enough to earn a new deal (he was the cheap option remember  ;)  so a pay bump is more than fair at this stage) though I think expectation should remain top 2 after the backing in the winter transfer window and the form of the other teams above us. Finishing 7th or below would be a bad season from this position but it's not going to happen so no need to worry!
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2908 on: February 09, 2019, 03:02:22 PM »
Not sure on why the rush to do this, for me he has slightly underperformed. We should be in the top 2 with the players at our disposal. After what he did at the end of last season i firmly believed he deserved his chance to steer the ship this year but i'm not convinced by him. Would prefer us to get to end of season and go from there.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2909 on: February 09, 2019, 03:21:27 PM »
Under performing views, over performing views, I suspect the reality of Darren's performance is somewhere in the middle of that particular continuum and, I get the impression from this thread, that is where the majority of our fans views are held.

Although, views on his performance, at the opposing ends of the continuum, are like a swingometer and will fluctuate from game to game. In my humble opinion, he earned his chance and deserves a fair crack at it, those who suggest he should leave aren't really giving him a fair crack at the chance he earned. My opinion!
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2910 on: February 09, 2019, 04:10:02 PM »
On paper we probably do have the best squad in the league, however on paper our squad wouldnt of finished 20th last season in the premier league yet they did, so on paper and reputations mean nothing.

To give an example, the media reguarly say Livermore, Gibbs and Jrod are England internationals, technically they are, but i couldnt tell you the last time Gibbs and JRod were even in a squad and i would be surprised if Livermore gets close anytime soon, but by saying 'England international' makes them  and their reputation sound better than they are.

If the championship was that easy, the 3 relegated clubs from the premier league would just be promoted straight back up again, now and again 1 or 2 do it but most dont, ask Stoke, newly promoted club, with all the extra money they have spent this season, why they arent 10 points clear at the top, football just doesnt work like that.

The mentality at the Albion is different this season for the first time in 8 years, the pressure and mentality in the premier league was not to lose, nowadays the pressure is on us to win. Ask most professional sports people and they will tell you mentality at that level is probably the most important thing, they are all talented and have ability to get to where they are (some players make you doubt that!) but they are top sports people and the mental side is huge.

Darren Moore has had to reverse the mentality at the club, whilst also trying to reverse a playing style to entertaining, whilst also trying to be successful, all this inherited from the exact opposite to what he is now trying to do - Pulis.

(This isnt a Pulis bashing, you employ him you know what your getting) but Pulis probably uses the most  extreme negative and underhand styles in professional football in this country to get results. Ask any player who has / is coached by Pulis and they will tell you, every session its just drill routines so you dont forget, i dont hate Pulis, i think he seems a bloke you would have a beer with (yes he has made mistakes) but last saturday, watching Middlesbroughs boring but effective tactics, i thought i am so glad i dont have to watch that every week, Albion players would of had those tactics drilled into them nearly three years, it does damage.

When a new manager wants you to try a different way of course you would be pleased and try to adapt but those endless sessions, days and days of something being implanted in your brain isnt easy to forget, i still think its noticeable with Sam Field as an example, his first couple of years experience of senior football was under Pulis, Field is a talented footballer but most times he gets the ball now he just wants to play a cautious no risk safe pass, yet i think he can do so much more, gradually Darren Moore will try and change Fields mentality, the way to do that is keep playing games, i am not sure he will actually get that at the Albion, especially if we go up but i think the mentality drilled into Field has affected his career, thats what Darren Moore is up against, however he must think he can change the way a lot of the squad play as he chose to keep them, but he does need time.

I dont think Mooro is perfect and i also dont think he is doing a great job but i do think he is doing a good job and i would say we are about where i expected us to be, its only middle of February, i dont think its fair to say he isnt the right man or he is clueless because we arent top at the moment, same as i dont think you would hand him a  new five year contract because we went top back in October.

The good points are we are trying to play football, we score plenty of goals, their seems to be a good spirit in the squad, the fans are interested again (we are selling out games home and away, though away wise i appreciate that may also be due to it being new grounds) we are creating an identity as a good attacking side, fans and media are changing their opinion of us after the Pulis years and we have also started to see some academy players stepping up (though we wont probably wont know the real success of those for a season or twos time when we see who become regulars)

I think the mistakes he has made are signing Johnstone, who although not a bad keeper, i dont think he was the right choice for the style we are looking to play, Johnstone has played over 150 senior games and admitted earlier this season he hasnt played this way before, i think it shows because he is nervous (playing behind our 3 at the back earlier of the season wouldnt of helped either, the defence and him made each other nervous) However I think we should of got a keeper who was confident and experienced in playing the way Moore and Jones wanted us too.

I also think they tried to rush the 3-5-2 in, in hindsight they should of seen we didnt have the players for it, however you learn from your mistakes and they did change formation (though i expect we will see more of the 3-5-2 between now and the end of the season as we have better options though i am not convinced our centre halves are right for it)

The Brunt in midfield is bizarre too, it clearly doesnt work and hopefully now we have Harper coming in and signing Johansen, Brunt can go back to competing on the left (i think have him on the bench because certain games he will still be very useful) i would hope the new competition in midfield, Brunt never sees centre midfield again, if thats the case you can say Moore has learnt from his mistake, however if Brunt appears there again it will be a concern.

The other one and it probably sounds petty, i am not sure why we need Morrison and Hoolahan, they are similar (ish) types of players and if they were playing reguarly or swapped roles alternately then fair enough, but as we very rarely use either of them, as they are both likely to be on very good wages for this level, i just think it was a waste of money having both, have one or the other.

Those are the mistakes i think he has made but everybody makes them, especially when you are new to something, but he has shown in some cases, he has given something a fair chance then rectified it when it doesnt work, l like that.

As a fan i am enjoying going the Albion again and although not perfect (but who is) i credit the good job Mooro is doing for making it enjoyable again.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2911 on: February 09, 2019, 04:20:38 PM »
On paper we probably do have the best squad in the league, however on paper our squad wouldnt of finished 20th last season in the premier league yet they did, so on paper and reputations mean nothing.

To give an example, the media reguarly say Livermore, Gibbs and Jrod are England internationals, technically they are, but i couldnt tell you the last time Gibbs and JRod were even in a squad and i would be surprised if Livermore gets close anytime soon, but by saying 'England international' makes them  and their reputation sound better than they are.

If the championship was that easy, the 3 relegated clubs from the premier league would just be promoted straight back up again, now and again 1 or 2 do it but most dont, ask Stoke, newly promoted club, with all the extra money they have spent this season, why they arent 10 points clear at the top, football just doesnt work like that.

The mentality at the Albion is different this season for the first time in 8 years, the pressure and mentality in the premier league was not to lose, nowadays the pressure is on us to win. Ask most professional sports people and they will tell you mentality at that level is probably the most important thing, they are all talented and have ability to get to where they are (some players make you doubt that!) but they are top sports people and the mental side is huge.

Darren Moore has had to reverse the mentality at the club, whilst also trying to reverse a playing style to entertaining, whilst also trying to be successful, all this inherited from the exact opposite to what he is now trying to do - Pulis.

(This isnt a Pulis bashing, you employ him you know what your getting) but Pulis probably uses the most  extreme negative and underhand styles in professional football in this country to get results. Ask any player who has / is coached by Pulis and they will tell you, every session its just drill routines so you dont forget, i dont hate Pulis, i think he seems a bloke you would have a beer with (yes he has made mistakes) but last saturday, watching Middlesbroughs boring but effective tactics, i thought i am so glad i dont have to watch that every week, Albion players would of had those tactics drilled into them nearly three years, it does damage.

When a new manager wants you to try a different way of course you would be pleased and try to adapt but those endless sessions, days and days of something being implanted in your brain isnt easy to forget, i still think its noticeable with Sam Field as an example, his first couple of years experience of senior football was under Pulis, Field is a talented footballer but most times he gets the ball now he just wants to play a cautious no risk safe pass, yet i think he can do so much more, gradually Darren Moore will try and change Fields mentality, the way to do that is keep playing games, i am not sure he will actually get that at the Albion, especially if we go up but i think the mentality drilled into Field has affected his career, thats what Darren Moore is up against, however he must think he can change the way a lot of the squad play as he chose to keep them, but he does need time.

I dont think Mooro is perfect and i also dont think he is doing a great job but i do think he is doing a good job and i would say we are about where i expected us to be, its only middle of February, i dont think its fair to say he isnt the right man or he is clueless because we arent top at the moment, same as i dont think you would hand him a  new five year contract because we went top back in October.

The good points are we are trying to play football, we score plenty of goals, their seems to be a good spirit in the squad, the fans are interested again (we are selling out games home and away, though away wise i appreciate that may also be due to it being new grounds) we are creating an identity as a good attacking side, fans and media are changing their opinion of us after the Pulis years and we have also started to see some academy players stepping up (though we wont probably wont know the real success of those for a season or twos time when we see who become regulars)

I think the mistakes he has made are signing Johnstone, who although not a bad keeper, i dont think he was the right choice for the style we are looking to play, Johnstone has played over 150 senior games and admitted earlier this season he hasnt played this way before, i think it shows because he is nervous (playing behind our 3 at the back earlier of the season wouldnt of helped either, the defence and him made each other nervous) However I think we should of got a keeper who was confident and experienced in playing the way Moore and Jones wanted us too.

I also think they tried to rush the 3-5-2 in, in hindsight they should of seen we didnt have the players for it, however you learn from your mistakes and they did change formation (though i expect we will see more of the 3-5-2 between now and the end of the season as we have better options though i am not convinced our centre halves are right for it)

The Brunt in midfield is bizarre too, it clearly doesnt work and hopefully now we have Harper coming in and signing Johansen, Brunt can go back to competing on the left (i think have him on the bench because certain games he will still be very useful) i would hope the new competition in midfield, Brunt never sees centre midfield again, if thats the case you can say Moore has learnt from his mistake, however if Brunt appears there again it will be a concern.

The other one and it probably sounds petty, i am not sure why we need Morrison and Hoolahan, they are similar (ish) types of players and if they were playing reguarly or swapped roles alternately then fair enough, but as we very rarely use either of them, as they are both likely to be on very good wages for this level, i just think it was a waste of money having both, have one or the other.

Those are the mistakes i think he has made but everybody makes them, especially when you are new to something, but he has shown in some cases, he has given something a fair chance then rectified it when it doesnt work, l like that.

As a fan i am enjoying going the Albion again and although not perfect (but who is) i credit the good job Mooro is doing for making it enjoyable again.

A good post and balanced view
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2912 on: February 09, 2019, 05:08:46 PM »
Fair play Darren you have dropped Brunt from the whole squad.  Credit where it is due.  Maybe a realisation that Brunt is at the end of the road at WBA? 

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2913 on: February 09, 2019, 05:13:19 PM »
Fair play Darren you have dropped Brunt from the whole squad.  Credit where it is due.  Maybe a realisation that Brunt is at the end of the road at WBA?

It's being reported Brunt is injured.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Brunt medium to long term future with us, but it would be interesting to see him playing in his natural position.
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2914 on: February 09, 2019, 05:18:26 PM »
It's being reported Brunt is injured.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Brunt medium to long term future with us, but it would be interesting to see him playing in his natural position.


Definitely injured as I said when I posted the team news.
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2915 on: February 09, 2019, 05:19:09 PM »
It's being reported Brunt is injured.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Brunt medium to long term future with us, but it would be interesting to see him playing in his natural position.

OK I didn't realise this.  You see, I don't understand what his natural position is?  Left wing abilities are hugely affected by a lack of pace and skill to beat a man.  He was Left back till the end of last season.  Now he's shifted back to CM again, which doesn't suit him either.

Let's see how we go today......

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2916 on: February 09, 2019, 05:23:55 PM »
OK I didn't realise this.  You see, I don't understand what his natural position is?  Left wing abilities are hugely affected by a lack of pace and skill to beat a man.  He was Left back till the end of last season.  Now he's shifted back to CM again, which doesn't suit him either.

Let's see how we go today......

With you on that Boing, Boing!!
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2917 on: February 09, 2019, 06:47:39 PM »
OK I didn't realise this.  You see, I don't understand what his natural position is?  Left wing abilities are hugely affected by a lack of pace and skill to beat a man.  He was Left back till the end of last season.  Now he's shifted back to CM again, which doesn't suit him either.

Let's see how we go today......

Brunt has been an excellent long term and loyal player to our club and I would like to see some of that loyalty paid back to him rather than several of the "Get rid" posters. Whether that is playing him in his correct position or some kind of training role at the club.

His is rubbish at centre midfield and although his gives his best it is not good enough by far. His best position is left midfield, followed by left back. His crossing and set piece delivery is above anything else in the squad and if we stay in the championship I think that he has another season to offer us.

Moore playing him in the centre is a disservice to him and the team and I wish that he would cut it out.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2918 on: February 09, 2019, 07:32:02 PM »
First 1-0 win of the season & a double over the clay heads

Well done Darren

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2919 on: February 09, 2019, 07:43:58 PM »
Well done to Darren Moore a job well done today

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2920 on: February 09, 2019, 07:47:05 PM »
Excellent. Good subs and the experience in the team managed the last 15 minutes well.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2921 on: February 09, 2019, 08:40:21 PM »
Big win. Subs were the ones I wanted and we needed and weren't too late.
Deserves praise for put away form which is probably better than our home form over the course of the season
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2922 on: February 09, 2019, 10:01:17 PM »
Darren switched Rodriguez and Gayle after about 20 mins. Gayle promptly scores, we line up from the resulting kick off with Gayle back out wide..


Darren's only major mistake this season imo is wasting Dwight Gayle. He'd be close to 30 goals if he'd played regularly through the middle.
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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2923 on: February 09, 2019, 10:10:02 PM »
Nice one Darren, not at our best but didn't need to be to beat this lot, Clay heads pay backs a bitch :-*. Only grip was having Livermore on instead of Harper who's head and shoulders a better player.

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2924 on: February 09, 2019, 10:12:48 PM »
Darren switched Rodriguez and Gayle after about 20 mins. Gayle promptly scores, we line up from the resulting kick off with Gayle back out wide..


Darren's only major mistake this season imo is wasting Dwight Gayle. He'd be close to 30 goals if he'd played regularly through the middle.

If he played in the middle of the front three then he’d be playing deeper. I take your point but I think it works fine and he’s scored plenty starting out wide.