Author Topic: Jan 2020 Transfer Window  (Read 3716 times)

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Baggie79

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Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« on: January 31, 2020, 11:30:07 PM »
I think for a window that usually provides little we have done fairly well. Diangana extending is great, Grosicki is a brilliant player at this level and at a great price. Peltier as well is a very astute piece of business who is great at this level, a leader and cost nothing. Robinson also add to our attacking threat in all forward areas.

The obvious downside is the Ferguson deal breaking down as this will cost us lost transfer fees as well as us having a potential problem player after the breakdown of the move.

I think in general a good but not great window.
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Baggies

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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2020, 12:47:52 AM »
Taking this window in isolation, i'd agree with your assessment. In terms of incomings, we have improved the side from the first half of the season without theoretically losing anyone (although we may well have lost Ferguson in mind/spirit now- that's the biggest failure of the window). I'm not upset about the Quina loan falling through really as he would have potentially complicated things in attacking midfield. Of what we brought in, Robinson allows us the option of playing 2 up front while also playing 5 in midfield, with him being a link between the two. Grosicki gives us a other dangerous option on the wing which will in turn boost out bench options and Peltier is a solid if unspectacular defensive improvement.

I am however uneasy about the long term strategy (or lack of) that I have seen the last 3 windows. Everything feels very short term and all of the signings seem to be very much "what becomes available at the end of the window". In the last 2 years, we have relied heavily on the domestic market. Our only 2 European based signings seem to be Bilic led and the third we were linked to was again pushed by the manager and his team. While this is ok now while we are one of the richest teams in the league, if we fail to go up this year and parachute payments drop off, we won't be beating our rivals to the likes of Robinson and Grosicki. What then? I'm not really seeing much of a long term strategy with what we are doing.

Once again, none of the kids went on loan and unlike the best sides, we have still to make a "one for the future" signing in Dowling's time here. Just look at how Wolves have done this Jan - half of the players they have signed are in the 17-21 bracket and are signed for a year or two down the line. There just seems to be no long term continuity planning.

Maybe time will prove me wrong, but I just don't think the business we do under Dowling now, suggests we would have a competetice advantage over either rivals in the prem next season, or rivals in the championshio if we have no parachute payments. Brentford/Leicester/Wolves we ain't.
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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2020, 12:49:35 AM »
You only need to look at United bringing in Ighalo on loan and the failure of the majority of teams in the top 2 divisions to bring in anyone who really stands out to see that the Jan window has become virtually impossible to do good business in. Bar Augustin to Leeds and Kongolo to Fulham there's not really any potential gamechangers signing for the rest of top 5.

Grosicki is a top 5 winger in this league, very good short term signing. Robinson I'm unsure on because it now looks like he could be playing up top and I don't think he's suited to the position, but he's a good player at this level. Peltier is solid cover for Furlong for 6 months. Main downside for me is not getting the £4-10m for Ferguson and being lumbered with a player who doesn't want to be here, isn't actually that good and brings us little to no money in when he leaves in the summer.

Having looked through transfermarkt, Fulham have won the window. But having kept Grady I don't think there are any other teams who have had a 'better' window than us. The main issue for me is the recent strange team selections, lack of creativity and awful defending which has pretty much ruined a very good first 4 months of the season.

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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2020, 01:43:27 AM »
Well the big breaking January transfer window story was that sky sports deadline day was as exciting as watching paint dry and Dopey Jim White with no yellow tie.  :o

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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2020, 02:53:43 AM »
You only need to look at United bringing in Ighalo on loan and the failure of the majority of teams in the top 2 divisions to bring in anyone who really stands out to see that the Jan window has become virtually impossible to do good business in. Bar Augustin to Leeds and Kongolo to Fulham there's not really any potential gamechangers signing for the rest of top 5.

Grosicki is a top 5 winger in this league, very good short term signing. Robinson I'm unsure on because it now looks like he could be playing up top and I don't think he's suited to the position, but he's a good player at this level. Peltier is solid cover for Furlong for 6 months. Main downside for me is not getting the £4-10m for Ferguson and being lumbered with a player who doesn't want to be here, isn't actually that good and brings us little to no money in when he leaves in the summer.

Having looked through transfermarkt, Fulham have won the window. But having kept Grady I don't think there are any other teams who have had a 'better' window than us. The main issue for me is the recent strange team selections, lack of creativity and awful defending which has pretty much ruined a very good first 4 months of the season.

I think the signings we have made have been to improve the creativity going forward. If we lose Pereira or Grady again we have good players with good pedigrees who can come in

I’m actually looking forward to seeing Grosicki play for us. I think he could turn out to be a very astute signing. Still has his pace, EXPERIENCED international and regular in what is a very good Poland team these days

Robinson will add pace and skill and a certain amount of creativity and can score goals too if we got 7-10 goals from him that would be a good return and an expected one

Peltier is a solid addition as backup to Furlong who I’ve thought should have been our No.1 RB anyway. I can see a good player in the making with Furlong.

Would liked to have seen an out an out striker but it’s not how Bilic likes to setup. So the summer if we go up should see us sign a striker in the Lukaku mould, a physical pacey forward who can bring into play the fast wingers and players like Pereira into play

The new faces will give the camp a boost and hopefully bring a renewed vigour. We only need to get a couple of wins together in the next few games and we can finish the season strong



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TheBrom

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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2020, 07:40:10 AM »
Taking this window in isolation, i'd agree with your assessment. In terms of incomings, we have improved the side from the first half of the season without theoretically losing anyone (although we may well have lost Ferguson in mind/spirit now- that's the biggest failure of the window). I'm not upset about the Quina loan falling through really as he would have potentially complicated things in attacking midfield. Of what we brought in, Robinson allows us the option of playing 2 up front while also playing 5 in midfield, with him being a link between the two. Grosicki gives us a other dangerous option on the wing which will in turn boost out bench options and Peltier is a solid if unspectacular defensive improvement.

I am however uneasy about the long term strategy (or lack of) that I have seen the last 3 windows. Everything feels very short term and all of the signings seem to be very much "what becomes available at the end of the window". In the last 2 years, we have relied heavily on the domestic market. Our only 2 European based signings seem to be Bilic led and the third we were linked to was again pushed by the manager and his team. While this is ok now while we are one of the richest teams in the league, if we fail to go up this year and parachute payments drop off, we won't be beating our rivals to the likes of Robinson and Grosicki. What then? I'm not really seeing much of a long term strategy with what we are doing.

Once again, none of the kids went on loan and unlike the best sides, we have still to make a "one for the future" signing in Dowling's time here. Just look at how Wolves have done this Jan - half of the players they have signed are in the 17-21 bracket and are signed for a year or two down the line. There just seems to be no long term continuity planning.

Maybe time will prove me wrong, but I just don't think the business we do under Dowling now, suggests we would have a competetice advantage over either rivals in the prem next season, or rivals in the championshio if we have no parachute payments. Brentford/Leicester/Wolves we ain't.


Wolves has earned the right to be able to risk signing young players for the future though as they’re in the premier league and in no danger of being relegated.

We’ve got to get their first before we can do this, hence the more short term options.

baggiebof

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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2020, 08:10:33 AM »

I am however uneasy about the long term strategy (or lack of) that I have seen the last 3 windows. Everything feels very short term and all of the signings seem to be very much "what becomes available at the end of the window". In the last 2 years, we have relied heavily on the domestic market. Our only 2 European based signings seem to be Bilic led and the third we were linked to was again pushed by the manager and his team. While this is ok now while we are one of the richest teams in the league, if we fail to go up this year and parachute payments drop off, we won't be beating our rivals to the likes of Robinson and Grosicki. What then? I'm not really seeing much of a long term strategy with what we are doing.


My sentiments exactly. In reference to this window in isolation, I felt we needed two attacking players that could play wide or centrally so am fairly pleased. I did want one of the two to be someone who could grow into filling the Diangana void when he goes back in the summer, 32-year old Grosicki wasnt exactly what I had in mind but won't be too picky.

mr multivac

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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2020, 09:20:01 AM »
Now the window is over the whole emphasis of the club and the fans for that matter can be focused on the job in hand ,the players know the squad and how they’ve got to perform to get in the team and stay there , only by winning football games and playing  well will they be in that position,
Manager players and fans know where we want to be come the end of the season let’s
get it done ,17 cup finals let’s get right behind the lads
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Baggies

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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2020, 09:50:10 AM »


Wolves has earned the right to be able to risk signing young players for the future though as they’re in the premier league and in no danger of being relegated.

We’ve got to get their first before we can do this, hence the more short term options.

I disagree, as when we made the signings of Mulumbu, Dorrans and the less successful Reuben Reid, we were not an established premier league club. It doesn't stop you signing players for the future, it doesn't stop you having an international scouting network, it doesn't stop you planning more long term and it certainly doesn't stop you loaning academy players out with a view to them being ready a year kater.
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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2020, 10:23:51 AM »
I’m not overly impressed to be honest and completely agree with Baggies that it’s all very short term... again.

LP ok fair enough if Ferguson has burnt his bridges we might need some cover, but it doesn’t make the first team stronger in particular or address defensive issues.

Grosicki is decent, but will blow hot and cold like our front three have recently anyway. When Diangana, Pereira and Philips are all available, I’m not sure he’s in the team.

Callum Robinson is not an out and out striker. Playing him there will be like having HRK there. So he’s another attacking midfielder in the mix who again doesn’t strengthen our best 11.

So, we have improved the bench. Our issues still remain though.

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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2020, 10:25:57 AM »
Hopefully it's enough to get us over the line and then we have a MASSIVE rebuild next year if we go up. So many players not good, on short term deals and due to retire or be released.

Maybe thats why they didnt spend the funds we have in the bank so the board can go all out in the summer.

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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2020, 10:36:12 AM »
This window was largely about some short term fixes to achieve a short term aim. Given the contract lengths involved there is little or no risk. As such fine and dandy.

Taking the two windows into account we are heading in the right direction. It would be hugely beneficial to keep Bilic as Head coach for a few seasons and if we were to lose him replace with a Head coach with a similar approach. Picking up players for the future only works if you are fairly certain they will have the attributes you need in that future.

I also think it is easy to under estimate the legacy of the Pulis years and the chaos that followed. From my point of view this season is the first season of our recovery last was largely an extension of that period (short term fixes and a lot of patches) .

Regardless of the outcome this season next summer will be another staging post in that recovery and will give us a lot better view of the direction travel.

With regard to the current bastions of recruitment virtue of Leicester, Wolves and Brentford. All of them have one key virtue that they are recruiting to one clear style of play. In Wolves case Nuno is in his third season and that helps greatly. In Brentford's case while they have changed Head Coach the bones of the approach remain the same.

Leicester City are interesting in that since the Premier League sucess they have moved from a counter attacking team to a much more possession based one. That transition has been quite painful at times 3 manager sackings a brush with relegation and a few major transfer missteps (Slimani being the most prominent). But having got to this point it looks pretty slick.

I would add that Brentford do not have an extensive international network aside Denmark where owner Matthew Benham also owns FC Midtjylland and the two clubs share scouting information.  Otherwise their recruitment is largely data and video led while they do watch players live the scouts are UK based and make specific trips to watch players they have already short-listed.
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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2020, 01:48:46 PM »
I think the signings we have made have been to improve the creativity going forward. If we lose Pereira or Grady again we have good players with good pedigrees who can come in

I’m actually looking forward to seeing Grosicki play for us. I think he could turn out to be a very astute signing. Still has his pace, EXPERIENCED international and regular in what is a very good Poland team these days

Robinson will add pace and skill and a certain amount of creativity and can score goals too if we got 7-10 goals from him that would be a good return and an expected one

Peltier is a solid addition as backup to Furlong who I’ve thought should have been our No.1 RB anyway. I can see a good player in the making with Furlong.

Would liked to have seen an out an out striker but it’s not how Bilic likes to setup. So the summer if we go up should see us sign a striker in the Lukaku mould, a physical pacey forward who can bring into play the fast wingers and players like Pereira into play

The new faces will give the camp a boost and hopefully bring a renewed vigour. We only need to get a couple of wins together in the next few games and we can finish the season strong

Agree regarding creativity, with Diangana and Pereira out, plus Phillips' form dropping off, we've lost almost all of our creativity in behind the striker. Once everyone's available we now have, on paper, an embarrassment of riches for those 3 positions:

Diangana Pereira Phillips
Robinson Krovinovic Grosicki

But again, that becomes irrelevant if we're going to effectively throw the ball in our own net 1-2 times every match. And I'll still maintain that a fully fit Gibbs has been our biggest miss this season, the guy is more comfortable on the ball than 90% of the players in this league, really helps when you've got Johnstone rolling it out under pressure from 3 players to the likes of Townsend, Bartley and Livermore.

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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2020, 07:07:14 PM »

I would add that Brentford do not have an extensive international network aside Denmark where owner Matthew Benham also owns FC Midtjylland and the two clubs share scouting information.  Otherwise their recruitment is largely data and video led while they do watch players live the scouts are UK based and make specific trips to watch players they have already short-listed.

I'm not sure you can say Brentford don't have an international scouting network and then go on to list the ways they scout from the continent.

Apart from the very biggest clubs, I doubt anyone has a dedicated scout sitting in every region of the world. Ashworth's network here was based on video scouting, with thousands of ganes a year being taped for use of the scouts.

Having that in place however, and having shared scouting information with an international partner club with data driven insights IS an international scouting network/strategy. Itbis that sort of innovative approach that gives the. An advantage over richer rivals.

Brentford have signed players from Italy, Czechia, Scotland, Spain, France, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden,  Poland and the Netherlands in the last 18 months.

There is no reason why we can't develop something similar.
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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2020, 08:46:48 AM »
I'm not sure you can say Brentford don't have an international scouting network and then go on to list the ways they scout from the continent.

Apart from the very biggest clubs, I doubt anyone has a dedicated scout sitting in every region of the world. Ashworth's network here was based on video scouting, with thousands of ganes a year being taped for use of the scouts.

Having that in place however, and having shared scouting information with an international partner club with data driven insights IS an international scouting network/strategy. Itbis that sort of innovative approach that gives the. An advantage over richer rivals.

Brentford have signed players from Italy, Czechia, Scotland, Spain, France, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden,  Poland and the Netherlands in the last 18 months.

There is no reason why we can't develop something similar.


I should have said "traditional scouting network" and I also should have added that their Head Coach  does not go and see any of their targets play in the flesh. As a rule many fans still expect the manager or their coaching staff to scout or at the very least have a man in the country or region who goes along to games looking for talent.

Man United do have dedicated scouts in the major leagues and are reportedly sifting through literally thousands of scouting reports and for instance Roy Hodgson tries to get to see every signing that Palace make play live at least once.

I would be very surprised if we aren't closer to the Brentford model than the United one.
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Re: Jan 2020 Transfer Window
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2020, 10:52:35 AM »

I should have said "traditional scouting network" and I also should have added that their Head Coach  does not go and see any of their targets play in the flesh. As a rule many fans still expect the manager or their coaching staff to scout or at the very least have a man in the country or region who goes along to games looking for talent.

Man United do have dedicated scouts in the major leagues and are reportedly sifting through literally thousands of scouting reports and for instance Roy Hodgson tries to get to see every signing that Palace make play live at least once.

I would be very surprised if we aren't closer to the Brentford model than the United one.

Can only judge ours based in results,  and thr results suggest our scouts are looking at the oremier league and championship (with the odd look at league 1) while Bilic reccommends the odd European signing.
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