Author Topic: Keeping Unhappy Players  (Read 5117 times)

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Baggie79

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Keeping Unhappy Players
« on: August 06, 2018, 10:01:06 AM »
I hope that we have learnt our lesson and decided that turning down bids and keeping unhappy players does not work for the club. I want Nyom, Dawson, Hegazy, Gibbs, Barry, Rodriguez and Rondon gone asap as they will make this group rotten to the core if they stay.

The club have replacements lined up who actually want to play for the club so get it done and stop bickering over small margins on prices and loan fees.

Rant over!!
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boinging_along

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2018, 10:02:05 AM »
What makes you think we have replacements lined up?
Or that they're good enough?
Or that the player will say yes?
Or that their club will sell?

bangkokbaggie

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 10:04:22 AM »
I hope that we have learnt our lesson and decided that turning down bids and keeping unhappy players does not work for the club. I want Nyom, Dawson, Hegazy, Gibbs, Barry, Rodriguez and Rondon gone asap as they will make this group rotten to the core if they stay.

The club have replacements lined up who actually want to play for the club so get it done and stop bickering over small margins on prices and loan fees.

Rant over!!

I think most of us agree with you but unfortunately those running the club are too stubborn in their way of operating.

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 10:04:25 AM »
all these unhappy footballers who were one of the route causes for taking us down
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Westie

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 10:10:40 AM »
It’s not stubbornness that is the problem with those running the Club, it’s incompetence and a total lack of understanding of English football; or maybe football as a whole!

Mister AT

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2018, 10:13:19 AM »
Its a tough one in my opinion and depends on the player that's being kept.

You could look at Dawson a few years ago who wanted out, we didn't let him go and he stayed knuckled down and has been consistently picked ever since.

A totally different example but Coutinho was another example of someone who just got on with things until he eventually got his move.

Then there is the flip side, for every Coutinho there is a Jonny Evans situation.

In my opinion, if the player doesn't want to be here, and the club have received a acceptable offer AND have a suitable replacement lined up, I have no problems with them leaving.
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Hull Baggie

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2018, 10:13:43 AM »
I hope that we have learnt our lesson and decided that turning down bids and keeping unhappy players does not work for the club. I want Nyom, Dawson, Hegazy, Gibbs, Barry, Rodriguez and Rondon gone asap as they will make this group rotten to the core if they stay.

The club have replacements lined up who actually want to play for the club so get it done and stop bickering over small margins on prices and loan fees.

Rant over!!

Of those you've listed only Dawson has made a fuss about moving so not sure why you think the others will "make the group rotten to the core".

 Rondon is as good as gone (if reports are to be believed) Burnley may come back with a better bid for Dawson and maybe Rodriguez too but I doubt Barry will go anywhere or Gibbs or Nyom or Hegazi (would you want him after his performances at the WC and on Saturday?). 
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OldburyWBA

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2018, 10:39:58 AM »
Of those you've listed only Dawson has made a fuss about moving so not sure why you think the others will "make the group rotten to the core".

 Rondon is as good as gone (if reports are to be believed) Burnley may come back with a better bid for Dawson and maybe Rodriguez too but I doubt Barry will go anywhere or Gibbs or Nyom or Hegazi (would you want him after his performances at the WC and on Saturday?).

We don't know what is said behind closed doors though. Foster a prime example of coming out saying he wanted to stay blah blah and then as soon as we went down was telling everyone he wanted out. Paul Robinson another who did the same, first day RDM walked in, he told him he wanted to leave whilst telling us all how much he loved us and kissing his badge after every game until he left.
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Hull Baggie

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2018, 10:44:28 AM »
We don't know what is said behind closed doors though. Foster a prime example of coming out saying he wanted to stay blah blah and then as soon as we went down was telling everyone he wanted out. Paul Robinson another who did the same, first day RDM walked in, he told him he wanted to leave whilst telling us all how much he loved us and kissing his badge after every game until he left.

All very true but there is no evidence for the original poster to state that the players he listed would negatively affect the playing group either.
I'm sure it would have come out if any of the other players had been agitating for a move, as it did for Foster and McClean.

The only thing I've read about Rodriguez is that he would be open to a move but won't make a fuss in order to do so.
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geoff

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2018, 11:05:39 AM »
I hope that we have learnt our lesson and decided that turning down bids and keeping unhappy players does not work for the club. I want Nyom, Dawson, Hegazy, Gibbs, Barry, Rodriguez and Rondon gone asap as they will make this group rotten to the core if they stay.

The club have replacements lined up who actually want to play for the club so get it done and stop bickering over small margins on prices and loan fees.

Rant over!!

The club should do all it can to keep players at the club but when that becomes clear that they can' then by all means get rid of them ASP, it was clear in the players named in your post that they wanted away at the end of last season.

CL3MO

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2018, 11:30:25 AM »
I hope that we have learnt our lesson and decided that turning down bids and keeping unhappy players does not work for the club. I want Nyom, Dawson, Hegazy, Gibbs, Barry, Rodriguez and Rondon gone asap as they will make this group rotten to the core if they stay.

The club have replacements lined up who actually want to play for the club so get it done and stop bickering over small margins on prices and loan fees.

Rant over!!

This! On reflection, and after calming down after Saturday's result, it was the lack of intensity, effort and passion that has annoyed me the most.

If players want to go, get a good price for them and let them go.

paulosull

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2018, 11:49:34 AM »
Looks like the only clubs who want to sign our players can't afford them or are unwilling to pay the clubs valuation.

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2018, 12:51:00 PM »
It might just be that no-one really wants our players that badly - after all they're not that good and we don't want them that's not a good reference. Also like other clubs we do tend to value these 'assets' rather highly against their true worth to us.
 In the real world if a machine packs up you tend to look at it and see what it needs to fix it. If it repairable at reasonable cost (Morrison, Myhill) you fix it and still use it while you can. If you can't do anything with it or it is not repairable (Foster, GMac,) you scrap it.
Sometimes you make mistakes and the annoying machine that stutters gets patched up and you keep it under false hope that it will still do the job (Barry, Livermore,HRK).
Sometimes you get lucky on Ebay -(Mclean, Rondon)
Then there are the times where you totally cock things up and get rid of a perfectly good piece of equipment that has served you well and would continue to do so (Yacob)
It's time some one in authority came into the real world.


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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2018, 12:54:06 PM »
Agree with this thread. Even though Moore got the team playing at the end of the season I was an advocate of a major overhaul. I also think to change the culture and identity will take time. The championship is a different animal to the premier league. Five of our better players from last year didn’t play on Sat (Foster, Dawson, Evans, Chadli and Rondon). I say try and offload a few (Nyom, Hegazi, Gibbs etc) and go for
Players with something to prove. It may not be an easy season but rather us have players who want to be here.
I would be willing to sell for a decent price for most of them. I’d sell Rodriguez for 16/17 and Chadli for 15 etc. There are bargains out there with the right scouting.





darby009

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2018, 06:24:11 PM »
I hope that we have learnt our lesson and decided that turning down bids and keeping unhappy players does not work for the club. I want Nyom, Dawson, Hegazy, Gibbs, Barry, Rodriguez and Rondon gone asap as they will make this group rotten to the core if they stay.

The club have replacements lined up who actually want to play for the club so get it done and stop bickering over small margins on prices and loan fees.

Rant over!!

you do surprise me Baggie79 in reference to Rodriguez being unhappy and the thought that he would make the group Rotten, i thought that although he would favour a move to burnley because that is "his club"  i thought he would be one who would knuckle down and get on with the job at hand.

in respect of Barry i think we will struggle to shift him due to wages and age. 

the next few days will be interesting, my fear is that if all the above did go we would lack some experience, i appreciate fresh hungry players could be exactly what we need, but given the fact that a lot of clubs are going to come to us and see us as a big scalp this year i feel that we need someone who will be able to guide the less experienced players and take the game by the scruff of the neck when its needed.

im not going to ask you how many new faces you think we will see before the window closes because some people on her will criticise and hold you to it... but out of those above (not now counting Rondon) how many of those you have listed do you think will leave ?

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2018, 06:44:13 PM »
There’s already a rotten element about this squad, that’s why we went down. I agree it should be broken up and if we get significant fees to rebuild with over the next couple of years in the process then we should do it! Time to finally rid the club of Pulis’ stain and the rotten attitude of some of the players he left us with ! Big big culture change required in this squad !

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2018, 06:46:18 PM »
There’s already a rotten element about this squad, that’s why we went down. I agree it should be broken up and if we get significant fees to rebuild with over the next couple of years in the process then we should do it! Time to finally rid the club of Pulis’ stain and the rotten attitude of some of the players he left us with ! Big big culture change required in this squad !

Not all down to Pulis, the issues existed before he came, too many comfortable players
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SirTonyM

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2018, 09:06:21 PM »
Not all down to Pulis, the issues existed before he came, too many comfortable players

Agree. Irvine was “liked” by the players but didn’t play for him either. I think Moore will take time to shift the culture. I’d keep Livermore and Phillips (playing better under Moore) Brunt and Morrison (although Brunt should be on the bench) beyond that I’d be ok to sell the rest of the senior professionals if the bids are right.

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2018, 09:31:06 PM »
Irvine was “liked” by the players but didn’t play for him either. I think Moore will take time to shift the culture.
I think it goes back further than that - they stopped playing under Clarke and wouldn't try to give Pepe Mel's style a chance

I’d keep Livermore and Phillips (playing better under Moore) Brunt and Morrison (although Brunt should be on the bench) beyond that I’d be ok to sell the rest of the senior professionals if the bids are right.
I think you've named all those still at the club who've been here all that time apart from Myhill though. I would have moved both Morrison and Brunt on to be replaced with younger, fresher models with something to prove.

SirTonyM

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2018, 11:12:40 PM »
I think it goes back further than that - they stopped playing under Clarke and wouldn't try to give Pepe Mel's style a chance
I think you've named all those still at the club who've been here all that time apart from Myhill though. I would have moved both Morrison and Brunt on to be replaced with younger, fresher models with something to prove.

I meant Nyom, Hegazi, Gibbs, Rodriguez, Barry, Robson Kanu as players we could shift / move on.

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2018, 11:58:01 PM »
Not all down to Pulis, the issues existed before he came, too many comfortable players

In fairness to TP this is something which he stated himself when commenting on Saido and Spurs's initial interest.

Ie, he'd rather have players with ambition than those who were too comfortable, a finger which he pointed very firmly in the direction of a number of our squad.
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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2018, 01:14:55 AM »
Ultimately it is futile to hold onto a player who really wants to be elsewhere and we have got embroiled in too many energy sapping disputes with players over fees down the years. However if the alternative runs along the lines that the player hints that he wants a move and we accept the first bid that comes along then that would quickly undermine the club. Particularly if we also adopted the "just pay the money" strategy often proposed on here when it comes to buying players.

In general I would be much happier if football as a whole adopted a system of fixed release clauses which were calculated on the value of the players outstanding contract. However something rational other the current bonkers arrangements is too much to hope for unless it is imposed by a court of law and it amazes me that a player in dispute with his club hasn't ended up there yet.

Returning to the opening post

I want Nyom, Dawson, Hegazy, Gibbs, Barry, Rodriguez and Rondon gone asap as they will make this group rotten to the core if they stay.

I was unaware that the club has had bids for Nyom Barry Hegazy and Gibbs.

In the case of Hegazy there was a £10m release clause which any club could have triggered and nobody did. So that is hardly down to the club's intransigence.

We have had bids for Dawson Rodriguez and Rondon. 

In Rondon's case nobody triggered the release clause he has just left in a cobbled together deal that bought Dwight Gayle in from Newcastle. While that deal has unfolded painfully some of Newcastle's earlier attempts to land Rondon in the context of a £16.5m release clause might be best described as pathetic. If we had accepted one them we might be the proud owner of Rolando Aarons a player Newcastle will have to pay someone to take away and enough money to buy 2nd hand Ford Focus .

This brings us onto Dawson and Rodriguez and Burnley. Going on reports in the press Burnley offered £25m for the pair. We said the number we were looking for was in the region of £40m. Given their age, ability (mid range Prem talent) and the length of their contracts the top end of the range we could ask for, which is a saying we don't have to sell nor do we want to sell.

Albion's position was not totally unreasonable given we had paid £14m for Rodriguez the previous summer and had bids for Darren Gibson in excess of £20m knocked back during the same window who was subsequently recruited by Burnley for £15m. While £40m might not have been right nor was £25m.

There is an argument that the money is of little value to us compared to the players because as a Championship club we probably unable to recruit at a similar level but with the additional funds probably end up recruiting Championship level talent at a premium. Just like Burnely did when they splurged on Andre Gray and got very lucky with selling him on to Watford at a profit where he has hardly set the world alight.

If the players are poisonous and I don't know what has happened behind closed doors then there is nothing else to do but move them on but I have real doubts about the abilities of those replacing them and to give ourselves a reasonable chance in the market we cannot be a soft touch.

 
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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2018, 07:28:09 AM »
The tipping point with any player is when they are half @rsed in matches and/ or training which 'infects' others .

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Re: Keeping Unhappy Players
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2018, 04:10:46 PM »
I hope that we have learnt our lesson and decided that turning down bids and keeping unhappy players does not work for the club. I want Nyom, Dawson, Hegazy, Gibbs, Barry, Rodriguez and Rondon gone asap as they will make this group rotten to the core if they stay.

The club have replacements lined up who actually want to play for the club so get it done and stop bickering over small margins on prices and loan fees.

Rant over!!

Not sure what Helgazi has done? Has he been trouble, don't think so, performance wise not good but attitude?  Barry on the other hand triggered another year which suggests he is up for the task.  You also lump Rondon in with this group which, though irrelevant now, is grossly unfair.  I know for a fact that he wasn't overly bothered about joining Newcastle, was more than happy to stay with us and infact I also know he went batsh*t when he was told he wouldn't be playing on Saturday, kicked a door and kept shouting but I'm still a West Brom player..
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 04:12:21 PM by Signor_Maresca »
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