[gerry m]

Are the players playing for the club or for themselves?. Annoys me that we have started to play well when it is too late. I may be wrong, any thoughts?

[WBArgo]

The only people that can answer that is the players themselves.

Personally I think Moore has done well in dropping Barry and Evans (for the most part) which has removed the toxic atmosphere and has instantly got us results on the pitch. I think judging by personality, that Livermore was most likely a follower than a leader with the taxi incident - not that that excuses him but it shows he probably cares more than the other two in the long-run.

I think players like Foster, Rondon, Dawson and McClean have always cared - but it's in vain if the manager can't get the best out of the others.

[LiamTheBaggie]

The players should be ashamed of themselves - but they won't be because they're handsomely paid and these good performances now puts them in the shop window for another Premiership club next season.

It cannot be forgotten that this lot downed tools, on the basis they did not like either of our previous managers - their attitude on and off the pitch was disgusting. From taxi-gate, to arm waving, shirking responsibilities and walking around the football pitch.

It is only now we are on the verge of being relegated, and with their lucrative pay packets now in jeopardy, are we seeing their potential.

[seteefeet]

The players should be ashamed of themselves - but they won't be because they're handsomely paid and these good performances now puts them in the shop window for another Premiership club next season.

It cannot be forgotten that this lot downed tools, on the basis they did not like either of our previous managers - their attitude on and off the pitch was disgusting. From taxi-gate, to arm waving, shirking responsibilities and walking around the football pitch.

It is only now we are on the verge of being relegated, and with their lucrative pay packets now in jeopardy, are we seeing their potential.

Agree Liam. As pleased as I am with the last 4 results, it just shows how disrespectful they have been. Ok, they didn't want to play for the manager(s) but why didn't they play for the fans? Simple answer is they couldn't give a toss. Maybe Big Dave has hammered home that message.

[iwastherein68]

The players should be ashamed of themselves - but they won't be because they're handsomely paid and these good performances now puts them in the shop window for another Premiership club next season.

It cannot be forgotten that this lot downed tools, on the basis they did not like either of our previous managers - their attitude on and off the pitch was disgusting. From taxi-gate, to arm waving, shirking responsibilities and walking around the football pitch.

It is only now we are on the verge of being relegated, and with their lucrative pay packets now in jeopardy, are we seeing their potential.

Never a truer word Liam

[Baggy nerd]

The players should be ashamed of themselves - but they won't be because they're handsomely paid and these good performances now puts them in the shop window for another Premiership club next season.

It cannot be forgotten that this lot downed tools, on the basis they did not like either of our previous managers - their attitude on and off the pitch was disgusting. From taxi-gate, to arm waving, shirking responsibilities and walking around the football pitch.

It is only now we are on the verge of being relegated, and with their lucrative pay packets now in jeopardy, are we seeing their potential.

We do not know for certain that they 'downed tools'. Maybe Pardew was not motivating them, not training them properly, not picking the right teams, not playing the right system etc etc

[LiamTheBaggie]

We do not know for certain that they 'downed tools'. Maybe Pardew was not motivating them, not training them properly, not picking the right teams, not playing the right system etc etc

I am not doubting that Pardew was a hideous appointment - he got more or less everything in his tenure wrong.

However the attitude of these players was one of those who has downed tools - accepted their fate and playing to remove the manager. The players have to take personal responsibility for their performances on and off the pitch.

Big Dave has been great - we are organised, good to watch and as a result the players have busted a gut for him. That does not mean their leisurely strolling around the pitch under Pardew was acceptable.

A lot of blame has been quite rightly portioned to Pulis & Pardew - but now its time these players took their fair share of criticism too.

[OldburyWBA]

I think the fact there appears to be a lot more effort from the players says a lot about them, under the previous 2 managers there was at times a distinct lack of interest, now they have someone they "like" its all change.

Its not good enough, I can accept players not being good enough with lack of talent but not lack of effort.

Some are purely playing for their futures, I cannot wait for this season to be over and to see the back of some.

[Baggy nerd]

I am not doubting that Pardew was a hideous appointment - he got more or less everything in his tenure wrong.

However the attitude of these players was one of those who has downed tools - accepted their fate and playing to remove the manager. The players have to take personal responsibility for their performances on and off the pitch.

Big Dave has been great - we are organised, good to watch and as a result the players have busted a gut for him. That does not mean their leisurely strolling around the pitch under Pardew was acceptable.

A lot of blame has been quite rightly portioned to Pulis & Pardew - but now its time these players took their fair share of criticism too.

Personally, the only match I noticed a 'downing of tools' was the second half of the Leicester match. So many other matches were just lost by the odd goal apart from tough trips to Man City/Chelsea. This is now shown by other teams having a worse goal difference.

[Adder]

Personally, the only match I noticed a 'downing of tools' was the second half of the Leicester match. So many other matches were just lost by the odd goal apart from tough trips to Man City/Chelsea. This is now shown by other teams having a worse goal difference.

Yeah I'd agree on this. If they had downed tools we'd have had several more 3 or 4 goal beatings (at least). We are where we are because we have consistently narrowly lost the games that matter against the bottom 12 clubs.....games where we haven't played well enough, haven't created enough, haven't kept clean sheets, but it's not through downing tools.

[WBAinDEVON]

Are the players playing for the club or for themselves?. Annoys me that we have started to play well when it is too late. I may be wrong, any thoughts?

And I got flack  for saying that , can't wait to see the back of most of them especially Evans  and some of you who gave olsson stick who was  loyal to the core passionate as they come even if he gave fingers  then it's up to you

[Droitwich Baggie]

I got slated because I think I was the first to see and say that Evans was useless for us.
Time has shown that I was right with what I saw and thought.

[cewba]

sad to say but , putting them selves in the shop window

[WBAinDEVON]

I will applaud the ones that want to stay and redeem themselves

[caravanc58]

it's too little too late now, we needed these players to perform all season not just the last handful of games. not a single player has been above average all season, I couldn't award any player with the player of the season because no-one deserves it. convinced that the upturn in performance is 80% self serving. good riddance to them.

[kris_boing]

I blame the players themselves for this season. They are much better than they have shown this season. They are the reason we are going down.  I'm no fan of Pardew and certainly not Pulis but the players have let them, the club and fans down.


It's down to whoever takes charge to rid the club of those players.

[ex coseley kid]

It's a great question and one I've kicked around a lot.

My only argument is that as a player I'd have set my shop window up a few games earlier.

Gut feeling - this is a team that wants to play together now, too late I know for us, but they've been rudderless all season. Shocking that the board just sat on their fat arses til it was too late.

[liverbaggie]

I blame the ex chairman for poor choice of pulis and pardew and I blame p & p for diabolical coaching to the players.

[mulliganstired]

It's easy to forget most of them are quite young men, and in need of someone or something to give them a lead, the old bonding thing.  Plus which, they are either pretty good players with confidence issues eg Livermore, Phillips or confident players who are a bit rubbish eg Nyom, McClean, if they had both they wouldn't be with us, they'd be at bigger clubs.

Evans for me has been a big let down, as soon as his mate Fletcher left he seemed to feel sorry for himself being left at a "little" club, as captain he was invisible, and no-one else stepped up to the plate.

But overall, can you imagine players like Olsson, Greening, Gera, Kevin Phillips, Igor, giving up the way we did after Xmas???  Thought not.

[costa blanca baggie]

We have to remember that most professional footballers usually excel at one thing...playing football. With football being a team game, the importance of organizing the individuals falls to a manager /coach. Without him, they are just a group of individuals. The same goes with any industry that relies on teamwork. If organizing is not understood or disliked by the team, then results suffer. Since the 40 point mark was reached last season, our team seemed to lose direction. For whatever reason, it continued through to this season, even after a change of manager. I struggled to understand some players roles during this period. We weren’t being thrashed every week, so the players weren’t bad, it seemed to be the organizing of the team. It’s very noticeable since Dave and his team have taken over, that roles have been assigned, and they’re being stuck to. The individuals have been molded into a team. The performances and results reflect this. One case in point...McClean. The guy needs little motivation, but his end product was abysmal. Rarely did he produce a cross that got past the first defender. Recently though, virtually every cross from him has been on the money. Someone seems to have been working with him on it. I don’t believe the players 'downed tools'. I believe they had the tools, but they weren’t being told how to use them. Again, it happens in every industry. Football is no different.

[WorcsWBA]

Given the obscene amount of money they're paid, the very least that footballers can do is strain every sinew to implement the tactics they've been given to the best of their ability. Too many of our players have failed to do that and, as a consequence, they deserve nothing but contempt.

They should also have avoided generating controversies when things were already going badly for us in the league.

Anyone who's guilty of either (or both) of the above should leave the club at the end of the season (assuming someone wants to buy them) regardless of what they've been doing for the past 4 games. They deserve nothing more.

[Albionic]

Regardless of what I think of my boss, if I could see my wages being cut by 50% I would try my damndest to stop the worst happening! Unless of course I  was so confident that I could move elsewhere on the same deal AND I couldn’t give a stuff about my employer or my colleagues. Frankly this speaks very poorly of the players and certain individuals need to be sanctioned somehow, (how is beyond me though)
In this category I would list Evans / Phillips / Chadli / Barry, others just are not quite equipped for mid table premiership IMO.

[we8seals]

Yeah I'd agree on this. If they had downed tools we'd have had several more 3 or 4 goal beatings (at least). We are where we are because we have consistently narrowly lost the games that matter against the bottom 12 clubs.....games where we haven't played well enough, haven't created enough, haven't kept clean sheets, but it's not through downing tools.

not so much a downing of tools - but just a lack of fight and desire that is required if a team is going to drag themselves out of the mire! the current crop of players have shown a disgraceful lack of fight and professional pride regardless of who the manager is or was. There are exceptions to that general rule but the gutless performances of quite a few and the disgraceful example of "senior professionals" (Evans and Barry in perticular) have delivered a completely avoidable fate.