[Greenock Baggie]

We tried to play the same football against Norwich but with four in midfield instead of five. We didn't all of a sudden turn into some hoofball side.

I agree mate, I think it was the poor display by our midfield that dictated the "style" we ended up playing. They were awful, 5 yard passes going astray is unforgiveable. IF we are to persist with 4 4 2, then displays like that will get us mullered more often than not.

[DaveWBA]

I agree mate, I think it was the poor display by our midfield that dictated the "style" we ended up playing. They were awful, 5 yard passes going astray is unforgiveable. IF we are to persist with 4 4 2, then displays like that will get us mullered more often than not.

Correct but that doesn't really show a massive change in the style of football, it just wasn't a very good performance. Something that has been rare under Roy. We'll continue to play to our strengths which as you say is getting the ball down and passing it, just expect us to be a bit more organised and regimented in defence under Hodgson.

[GrGr]

Correct but that doesn't really show a massive change in the style of football, it just wasn't a very good performance. Something that has been rare under Roy. We'll continue to play to our strengths which as you say is getting the ball down and passing it, just expect us to be a bit more organised and regimented in defence under Hodgson.

I think you are in denial. What we saw against Stoke and Norwich was radically different than what we were playing last spring. I just hope that our new setup will produce decent football sooner rather than later, because we rode our luck against Norwich and were dire against Stoke the first 20 mins apart maybe.

[Baggie Artist]

Norwich was perfectly fine in my opinion. We created a decent number of chances, we looked solid at the back, typical Premier League away performance really.

Stoke at home was a concern but I'd put the performance and reluctance to go all out near the end as down to us looking to get our first point. We saw a similar performance at home to Wolves last season.

[B_H_Baggie]

Keep this topic sensible, if you can't accept others opinions and discuss them like adults then don't bother posting at all. No need to insult others on here.

[Greenock Baggie]

Think we'll just agree to disagree on that one before some johnny-come-lately tells me to support the Dingles for expressing an opinion different to thiers eh 

[Political Cake]

To be fair, I can accept performances like what we had against Norwich away from home, as long as we are doing whatever we can to secure points without risking them too much. At home, however, I would like to see more than we did against Stoke. Hopefully it's just a little blip.

[Adder]

Surely mixing it up would be best option. Look to get the ball down and pass but mix it up with the long clearance also.
Don't think our distribution skills from the back are looking good - so far Foster has gone for long kick nearly all the time - reid is a better defender than Jara but def not as good a passer. I know we want a stronger defence than we've had but to play good football you need a couple at the back who are comfortable passing and linking up play.

[boinging_along]

Surely mixing it up would be best option. Look to get the ball down and pass but mix it up with the long clearance also.
Don't think our distribution skills from the back are looking good - so far Foster has gone for long kick nearly all the time - reid is a better defender than Jara but def not as good a passer. I know we want a stronger defence than we've had but to play good football you need a couple at the back who are comfortable passing and linking up play.

Jonas is superb when it comes to playing the ball out.  He really is excellent at picking a pass, a lot of the time he plays a decent ball to one of the CM in an attacking position.  He couldn't do that against Norwich because the CM were practically on top of him.

[WBAinDEVON]

Not very good this brand so far today is it

[MarkW]

Yes. I hate to say "I told you so", but I was saying a lot of this stuff last week...

[Dan]

Well no, last week we defended very well. This week we've been arrogant, thought Swansea would be rubbish, and turned up thinking we could stroll it.

Although the decision to ignore the defence looks all the more glaring after this.

[LiamTheBaggie]

I wouldn't say we've played football today tbh.

[Kicking Pigeons]

Let's put it bluntly...

We finished last season 11th, by all definitions a successful season and one where we looked very impressive most of the time. How did we achieve that success? We achieved it a certain way. We played good attacking and attractive football, emphasis on passing the ball on the floor, going forward etc.  We played a 4-5-1 formation which allowed flowing play in the midfield, flexibility, unpredictability going forward, catered to our strengths which was our very strong midfield midfield... IT WORKED! It worked for most of RDM's reign (I think his general management abilities was what ended it for him) and it worked when Hodgson came in.

So for this season what does Hodgson do? He changes it completely. A full 360 degree turn. He replaces the attacking football which served us so well with a very defensive style. Gets rid of the attractive, passing, flowing style with horrendous hoofball which makes us look like a poor Stoke imitation. Changes the 4-5-1 formation which worked so well with the flow it allowed, the flexibility it gave, suited our players and how unpredictable it was for opposing teams to a 4-4-2 which makes it hard to pass the ball, is very rigid, doesn't suit the players we have and is very predictable.

Says it all. It's wrecked us, it just doesn't work.

[baggieheart]

Let's put it bluntly...

We finished last season 11th, by all definitions a successful season and one where we looked very impressive most of the time. How did we achieve that success? We achieved it a certain way. We played good attacking and attractive football, emphasis on passing the ball on the floor, going forward etc.  We played a 4-5-1 formation which allowed flowing play in the midfield, flexibility, unpredictability going forward, catered to our strengths which was our very strong midfield midfield... IT WORKED! It worked for most of RDM's reign (I think his general management abilities was what ended it for him) and it worked when Hodgson came in.

So for this season what does Hodgson do? He changes it completely. A full 360 degree turn. He replaces the attacking football which served us so well with a very defensive style. Gets rid of the attractive, passing, flowing style with horrendous hoofball which makes us look like a poor Stoke imitation. Changes the 4-5-1 formation which worked so well with the flow it allowed, the flexibility it gave, suited our players and how unpredictable it was for opposing teams to a 4-4-2 which makes it hard to pass the ball, is very rigid, doesn't suit the players we have and is very predictable.

Says it all. It's wrecked us, it just doesn't work.

Now, now I said that last week and my thread was called pathetic.


Our strength is midfield. The current system seems to ignore them with us looking to hit the strikers as quick as possible.

This would work if we had a target man and fast midfielders to join in with them (think Villa under O'Neill)

We don't have this but we can (well we could) move a ball pretty nicely with gifted players capable of supporting each other. Surely our style should look to promote this rather than protect the weakness of conceding goals which we give away anyway because of sloppy play.

 

[BaggieBirdRus]

451 as seen last year was very effective for us, the reason why? It's because we dominated teams in midfield were fluid, plays nice passes and gave us a bit of unpredictability that teams couldn't handle. With a 451 it allows us to have our 2 CM's in the team as CDM where that is their best position, they just aren't creative enough for the CM role. By having two CDM's it offers our defense more protection, which i do now feel is better as Tamas has upped his game, but it also allows us to put a creative CAM who can makes things happen (Dorrans). It also gives us width and in my opinion better defensive cover for our full backs.

442 is just so out-dated now and really doesn't work unless you are a top top side. Who even plays 442 now? Man Utd don't, neither do Chelsea, nor Man City! 442 offers no more attacking threat than 451 although there are two upfront as this formation is so rigid and readable that teams know what to expect and how defend it. It also puts a lot of pressure on the midfield because if they face opposition who have 5 in midfield they will just get overpowered.

I really do hope we go back to our 451 system as it offers a lot more diversity, unpredictability and basically a better albion side!

[Greenock Baggie]

You should read my posts earlier in this topic and on the Norwich topic from last week mate. I wish I had been wrong, I truly do but keep this 4 4 2 and we are going down. We are not good enough in midfield to play 4 4 2.......it aint going to work. I know and plenty of other people know it. Lets just hope Roy now knows it and reverts back to what we all know WORKS...........4 5 1

[baggieheart]

451 as seen last year was very effective for us, the reason why? It's because we dominated teams in midfield were fluid, plays nice passes and gave us a bit of unpredictability that teams couldn't handle. With a 451 it allows us to have our 2 CM's in the team as CDM where that is their best position, they just aren't creative enough for the CM role. By having two CDM's it offers our defense more protection, which i do now feel is better as Tamas has upped his game, but it also allows us to put a creative CAM who can makes things happen (Dorrans). It also gives us width and in my opinion better defensive cover for our full backs.

442 is just so out-dated now and really doesn't work unless you are a top top side. Who even plays 442 now? Man Utd don't, neither do Chelsea, nor Man City! 442 offers no more attacking threat than 451 although there are two upfront as this formation is so rigid and readable that teams know what to expect and how defend it. It also puts a lot of pressure on the midfield because if they face opposition who have 5 in midfield they will just get overpowered.

I really do hope we go back to our 451 system as it offers a lot more diversity, unpredictability and basically a better albion side!

Except Man U & Man City do.

[paulosull]

we might as well put four defenders in midfield because they are getting bypassed all the time

[Dudleylad]

I have held my views as I believe Roy wants to try to turn us into a version of his Fulham side however our players are not adapting quick enough to this formation so changes need to be made especially as different combinations have been tried now in that midfield

The main plus of a 4-5-1 is the ball retention that we would possess. I believe reverting to that today at 1 or 2 down would have made a difference.

[WorcsWBA]

I'm not sure it's down to us playing 4-4-2 per se, but having 2 defensive midfielders as the central 2 (no faith in the defence?). I'd still quite like to see us play 4-1-3-2 with Mulumbu as the holding player and Dorrans as the central player in the 3. Regardless of where he wants to play, Scharner is a centre-half playing in midfield for me and we need something more than that to succeed with a 4 man midfield.

I don't accept the argument that 4-4-2 can't work no matter what, but I don't think it's going to work for us with a central pairing for Mulumbu and Scharner. I'm also starting to be very keen for Zolly to be fit and see what he can bring to the "party".

[RedHead_Baggie]

The players should be capable of playing to whatever formation Roy wants.

Some of our players are hopelessly inadequate by premiership standards if they can't adjust.

[Clarkus]

it worked when roy came in last season as we needed organising and players adapted, but now this is his season,pre-season,players,methods etc, we have alot of midfielders so surely somewhere the balance gets right as the whole long ball thing isnt working

[KingKoren]

Fulham were able to utilise a 4-4-2 system - it's not like it can't be done. However I don't  believe it suits our personnel whereas a 4-2-3-1 does.

[Dudleylad]

The players should be capable of playing to whatever formation Roy wants.

Some of our players are hopelessly inadequate by premiership standards if they can't adjust.

Not entirely no, we have very little in the way of pure midfield pace that is needed to be effective in a 4-4-2.

Formations play a big part in football and can make or break a season