[gerry m]

Well it looks like Root's comments about the bowlers has come back to haunt him.

[LiamTheBaggie]

That innings has also picked up some pretty unwanted records.

A million times worse than 2017 and on a par if not worse than the whitewash of 06/07

[Baggies]

Joe Root has over 1700 runs this year. The second highest run total this year is Rory Burns with 530. Joe Root had over 530 runs by February 6th.

Other than Root, only 1 other batsmen has averaged o er 30 runs - Dawid Malan.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that without Joe Root, this batting line up would struggle to get runs vs Ireland, Zimbabwe or Afghanistan. Thank god for our bowling attack.

The West Indies will probably white wash us in March.

[Baggies]

South Africa are the latest side to post a sub 200 total in their first innings at home today, despite the pitch seeming to be fairly batting friendly when India's top order were at the crease.

Following on from England's struggles and Bangladesh & New Zealand also posting sub 100 totals THIS MONTH (the first time ever for 3 teams in one month I believe), it does make you question if Test cricket skills are now a thing of the past in the Twenty/20 franchise cricket era.

If I have my maths right, there have been 32 innings (33 if you count the short Aussie run chase a few weeks ago) in International Test Cricket in the last 2 months involving England, Australia, India, New Zealand, Pakistan, Bangladesh, South Africa, West Indies and Sri Lanka. Only on 2 occasions have a side managed to score over 400 - both times being Australia.

Maybe its rose tinted glasses but i'm sure scores of 400+ were standard 15 years ago.

[LiamTheBaggie]

The two tier approach to cricket has certainly become more evident in recent years. Those minor countries are not interested in test cricket as it has no financial rewards for them unless England or India come to town and as such the players flog themselves as one day specialists.

We are very much in a era of four or five genuine test playing nations and the quality of some of those from a batting unit continues to decrease aside from India.

I do however have to admire New Zealand cricket. For their relative minor finances, their smaller population they have managed to find a balance between red and white ball cricket. Test champions and finalists in both T20 and 50 over World Cup competitions. It is not inconceivable that England can manage the same.

However, our problems are that deep rooted I’m not sure the best way of addressing them at the moment. Nor do I believe that either Giles or the ECB are the ones to administer it.

[SmethDan]

Don't really follow the cricket and I haven't been keeping tabs with the thread. One observation though. I couldn't get over just how big and physically powerful the Australian cricketers looked in comparison to our scrawny disheveled looking lot. A rabble devoid of confidence and any kind of physical, mental or emotional resilience.

They looked utterly done. The last thing any of them need for a few weeks is any more cricket. I prescribe some time off, a few beers and some rest to recharge the batteries before starting all over again on basic cricketing technique and doing some weights. The mightiest of Bothams would have been nothing if anchored by the weakest of Roots.

[Baggies]

Only just seen the limited overs squad for the West Indies tour. Pleased that none of the Ashes squad are going on the tour - they should be rested for the test series in March. A few names I'm not as familiar with but pleased to see Phil Salt put the "Wales" in the England and Wales cricket team.

Eoin Morgan, Moeen Ali, Tom Banton, Sam Billings, Liam Dawson, George Garton, Chris Jordan, Liam Livingstone, Saqib Mahmood, Tymal Mills, David Payne, Adil Rashid, Jason Roy, Phil Salt, Reece Topley, James Vince

[Adder]

Only just seen the limited overs squad for the West Indies tour. Pleased that nine of the Ashes squad are going on the tour - they should be rested for the test series in March. A few names I'm not as familiar with but pleased to see Phil Saly put the "Wales" in the Englanf and Wales cricket team.

Eoin Morgan, Moeen Ali, Tom Banton, Sam Billings, Liam Dawson, George Garton, Chris Jordan, Liam Livingstone, Saqib Mahmood, Tymal Mills, David Payne, Adil Rashid, Jason Roy, Phil Salt, Reece Topley, James Vince

I think the West Indies T20 series starts extremely soon after the Ashes finish like 4 days later - there are also T20s and ODIs lined up against Australia after the Ashes I think. Didn't realise Salt was Welsh but happy to claim him - he seems to have moved around quite a bit in his life with his family moving to Barbados when he was 10.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Only just seen the limited overs squad for the West Indies tour. Pleased that none of the Ashes squad are going on the tour - they should be rested for the test series in March. A few names I'm not as familiar with but pleased to see Phil Salt put the "Wales" in the England and Wales cricket team.

Eoin Morgan, Moeen Ali, Tom Banton, Sam Billings, Liam Dawson, George Garton, Chris Jordan, Liam Livingstone, Saqib Mahmood, Tymal Mills, David Payne, Adil Rashid, Jason Roy, Phil Salt, Reece Topley, James Vince

Good chance for some of them to put their names forward.

Glad to see George Garton included - he was impressive in the Hundred for Southern Brave and has done well in the limited over competitions abroad.

Salt, Roy, Vince, Morgan, Livingstone, Ali, Billings, Rashid, Garton, Mahmood, Mills is how I would go

Though I suspect Jordan and Banton will feature over Salt & Garton.

[Adder]

Good chance for some of them to put their names forward.

Glad to see George Garton included - he was impressive in the Hundred for Southern Brave and has done well in the limited over competitions abroad.

Salt, Roy, Vince, Morgan, Livingstone, Ali, Billings, Rashid, Garton, Mahmood, Mills is how I would go

Though I suspect Jordan and Banton will feature over Salt & Garton.

Yeah it sort of demonstrates the problem though - it is a good chance to put their names forward for short form inclusion but we will learn next to zilch about their potential test credentials.

[caravanc58]

Just bring them home, it's a total embarrassment to cricket.
The last 53 balls of that session went for no runs and cost three wickets.

[lewisant]

At least Stokes and Bairstow have finally had a positive run. Woods too. But then Buttler goes for that soft soft catch.

[Baggies]

Brilliant century from Bairstow, while Wood becomes the first batsmen to score 3 6's off Cummins in an innings. Also a nod to Ben Stokes who seems to be finding his way back into it again now.

I still think we need to bat the majority of the morning session tomorrow if we want a draw, but atleast there is hope of us avoiding the whitewash now and the chance to make the giddy heights of a 300 score/5th day.

[DaveWBA]

Brilliant century from Bairstow, while Wood becomes the first batsmen to score 3 6's off Cummins in an innings. Also a nod to Ben Stokes who seems to be finding his way back into it again now.

I still think we need to bat the majority of the morning session tomorrow if we want a draw, but atleast there is hope of us avoiding the whitewash now and the chance to make the giddy heights of a 300 score/5th day.

Bairstow batted well. I still maintain he's not good enough to bat in the top five of a decent test side. Would like to see him given the gloves over Buttler moving forwards if we're going to ignore our best wicket keeper in Ben Foakes.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Bairstow batted well. I still maintain he's not good enough to bat in the top five of a decent test side. Would like to see him given the gloves over Buttler moving forwards if we're going to ignore our best wicket keeper in Ben Foakes.

They've drafted Sam Billings in for the 5th test so I think its safe to say where Foakes is in the pecking order.

Sheer ignorance and pandering to the ego's of those who continuously fail at this level.

[Baggies]

They've drafted Sam Billings in for the 5th test so I think its safe to say where Foakes is in the pecking order.

Sheer ignorance and pandering to the ego's of those who continuously fail at this level.

Is that more down to the fact that Billings is already in Australia though having played in the big bash? Neither Buttler nor Bairstow will be dropped for the 5th test anyway so Billings is likely only a lazt resort option. Were it the West Indies test I'd expect them to pick Foakes over Billings.

[hardtobeat]

Almost certainly going to be without Stokes in final test , best case he will only play asa batsman. It’s also possible Bairstows whack on the thumb could turn out to be more serious than first thought I.e busted so Billings likely to be called in as a cover

[Baggies]

Stokes is worth a place in the squad as a middle order batsman either way, but if it's an injury that needs managing then there is no point in running him in to the ground like webhave with Archer. Billings and Lawrence can be brought in if really needed for Bairstow and Stokes. Lawrence really should have been given another chance by now, even if they don't rate Lawrence technique for the long term.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Is that more down to the fact that Billings is already in Australia though having played in the big bash? Neither Buttler nor Bairstow will be dropped for the 5th test anyway so Billings is likely only a lazt resort option. Were it the West Indies test I'd expect them to pick Foakes over Billings.

That’s one of the reasons for his inclusion but Foakes was one of the travelling party that was sent home some weeks ago.

There’s injuries to Bairstow, Buttler and Stokes so I would expect Woakes and Billings to replace them if injured. I think we’ll persevere with Stokes as a batsman but opt for Woakes as an all rounder whose not been bad with the bat.

[Adder]

Interesting that Bangladesh have convincingly won the first test match in New Zealand (would we manage that ?).

NZ without Williamson but with their full pace attack. Seems Bangladesh have a decent young side.

[wodenson46]

That’s one of the reasons for his inclusion but Foakes was one of the travelling party that was sent home some weeks ago.

There’s injuries to Bairstow, Buttler and Stokes so I would expect Woakes and Billings to replace them if injured. I think we’ll persevere with Stokes as a batsman but opt for Woakes as an all rounder whose not been bad with the bat.

In the games he has played Woakes has been one of the better batsmen.

[LiamTheBaggie]

In the games he has played Woakes has been one of the better batsmen.

Hope he can open the batting 

[wodenson46]

Hope he can open the batting 

Doubt it Liam, But if they pay me first class air fare and chuck in a few tinnies I reckon I'm in with a chance of being better than what we have. Specially wi me new specs, painkillers and walking stick

[LiamTheBaggie]

We’ve managed to bat out the day! 102 overs. About time we saw a bit of fight.

Zak Crawley has also guaranteed himself the next twelve months following his impressive knock of 70+.

[wodenson46]

Stayed up for this on radio. Proper test match excitement and a better performance overall, but only papers over the cracks. Crawley if he keeps this up can be the future, but he will have setbacks in the future as he has in the past and will need support. We are still also so dependant on the old warhorses.

Nothing so far gives me any confidence in the leadership on or off the field. Poor decision making has played its part in our defeats nearly as much as poor shots. Our spin bowling has also suffered from poor handling. Leach played well here but the previous lack of trust with field placings has cost him and the team.

We have been well beaten by a better all round set up and team, but have shown in this last game only, the sort of fight that ought to have been there from the start of the series. Changes needed at the top for me.

What are you guys doing for the next few years ? Liam, and the rest of us I think might be able to do better than the present incumbents.