Poll

Which Country will win the World Cup 2018?

Belgium - 7/1
Brazil - 14/5
Croatia - 13/2
England - 9/2
France - 4/1
Russia - 20/1
Sweden - 25/1
Uruguay - 16/1

Author Topic: World Cup 2018  (Read 62628 times)

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Scooby Doo

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #200 on: June 21, 2018, 11:28:58 PM »
Ronaldo  has dragged his team to win in this world cup,whereas Messi couldnt do it,with arguably better players in his team.

Scoring a 4th minute winner against a side who went on to arguably get the better of yours is not 'dragging your team to win'.


liverbaggie

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #201 on: June 21, 2018, 11:45:24 PM »
But he won mate.

Scooby Doo

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #202 on: June 21, 2018, 11:57:09 PM »
But he won mate.

And? Didn't drag his side to victory. I have a very different version of dragging a side to victory. Messi's hat trick against Ecuador after going 1-0 down was a performance that merits such a phrase.

Diego Costa didn't drag Spain to victory the other day did he? Like Ronaldo didn't for Portugal.

Clearly you're a Ronaldo fan though so I'll be bold to say you're slightly blinkered. Which there's nothing wrong with just won't see reason.

vrabbit

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #203 on: June 22, 2018, 12:09:58 AM »
And? Didn't drag his side to victory. I have a very different version of dragging a side to victory. Messi's hat trick against Ecuador after going 1-0 down was a performance that merits such a phrase.

Diego Costa didn't drag Spain to victory the other day did he? Like Ronaldo didn't for Portugal.

Clearly you're a Ronaldo fan though so I'll be bold to say you're slightly blinkered. Which there's nothing wrong with just won't see reason.

Once I realized this it became clear there's no point engaging with this dude.

liverbaggie

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #204 on: June 22, 2018, 12:17:43 AM »
Yes you are probably correct I am a Ronaldo fan.
Its the world cup,arguably should be the best players in the world playing in Russia.
If you were from another planet and had been watching the matches, I think they would say that on his performances so far that Messi ain't one of them,whereas Ronaldo....

Scooby Doo

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #205 on: June 22, 2018, 12:46:10 AM »
Yes you are probably correct I am a Ronaldo fan.
Its the world cup,arguably should be the best players in the world playing in Russia.
If you were from another planet and had been watching the matches, I think they would say that on his performances so far that Messi ain't one of them,whereas Ronaldo....

The day a players ability is defined based on two games will be the day you might have an argument. Until then, I'll just sit here in amazement.


liverbaggie

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #206 on: June 22, 2018, 06:32:26 AM »
Hey Scooby,Messi should have been ready for those two matches, physically and mentally,he wasn't was he.
You can still be amazed though by watching england ,we have an exciting tsquad of players I'm looking forward to Sundays game.

Hull Baggie

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #207 on: June 22, 2018, 06:43:20 AM »
I think so, to perform consistently at the highest international level is where the greats stand out. there's been some great players that just don't do it at major tournaments. Rooney is a perfect example, great striker but did nothing at world cup or euro tournaments.
Rooney did it for Man Utd in the Champions league and Europa league though so he can play well in tournament football, it was with England he ultimately failed, so it's more about the team than the player in his case.
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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #208 on: June 22, 2018, 06:54:51 AM »
This might be the year when Ronaldo takes the best player in the world title of Messi. He is in phenomenal form. It will depend on him not knocking us out of the tournament.
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Atomic

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #209 on: June 22, 2018, 10:57:18 AM »
I think Ronaldo's profile is being enhanced somewhat by Messi's demise. I said before that I think Messi is in decline and has been for a few years. I know his stats are still very good and two seasons ago he averaged better than a goal a game but overall he's not quite the player he was. He's lost that yard of pace which doesn't help. Messi was at his best between 2011 - 2015. At his peak he hit a level of form I've never seen anyone hit.

Ronaldo isn't getting any better but his peak just keeps lasting and lasting. His goal aside I thought he was poor in Portugal's last game. Messi even at his peak would have little chance in this Argentina team which is the worst Argentina team I've seen, they are really poor.

Fritzl Palace

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #210 on: June 22, 2018, 11:05:21 AM »
I think anyone would struggle to thrive in this current Argentina set up. It is an absolute madhouse, awful goalkeeper and defence, coach who is tactically inept and inspires no confidnece by going ballistic on the sidelines at every opportunity whilst leaving their particularly good midfield options in Banega and Lo Celso on the bench whilst Modric and Rakitic dominate the midfield.

Portugal may not have an amazing team, but they have a good goalkeeper (who is sadly now with the Wolves), solid enough defenders and a coach who is clearly tactically very good. They won the Euro's without Ronaldo on the pitch for the final. This Argentina side wouldn't even be at the World Cup if it wasn't for Messi banging in 13 goals in 14 games in qualification against far better sides than Ronaldo faced in qualifying.

Liverbaggie, I disagree with nigh on every single opinion you give, but this one really takes the cake. Messi is to be spoken about as potentially the best the world has ever known, same with Ronaldo, so for you to say he is not world class is utterly ludicrous. They both are.

seteefeet

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #211 on: June 22, 2018, 11:54:15 AM »
Messi needs space, which he gets in la Liga because of the quality of the players around him. They can't just man mark Messi out of the game because it will open up the game for others. Argentina appear to have nothing, so just stick a couple on Messi, kick him now and again and job done. Messi is the best in the world with the ball at his feet, no question for me, and he has shown odd flourishes but he's ploughed a lone furrow and been crowded out, leading to frustration and desperation..
Ronaldo is far better without the ball, his movement and guile are second to none. So far this tournament has suited him far better.

All that being said, Croatia are head and shoulders the best team so far.

liverbaggie

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #212 on: June 22, 2018, 12:49:27 PM »
Hey fritzle,I love you too.

Fritzl Palace

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #213 on: June 22, 2018, 12:57:47 PM »
Hey fritzle,I love you too.

Pleased to hear it  :-*

Droitwich Baggie

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #214 on: June 22, 2018, 05:51:11 PM »
Have Iceland been coached by Pulis?
No speed, just pass back to the goalkeeper and hoof at every chance.
Even the penalty was hoofed high and not very handsome.

Droitwich Baggie

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #215 on: June 22, 2018, 07:50:52 PM »
Switzerland have also been coached by Pulis.
No running forward to collect the ball.
Just stood still and waiting, rather than running from behind to collect said ball.
Serbia and Nigeria ran onto the ball.
This is something we have to do, too.

Scooby Doo

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #216 on: June 22, 2018, 08:26:30 PM »
Foul on Mitrovic easily one of the worse instances of VAR not being used. Makes the fouls on Kane in the box actually look legal.

Was as if he'd was a wide reciever sandwich between two defensive ends!  :o

Atomic

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #217 on: June 22, 2018, 08:58:34 PM »
What is the point of having VAR when Mitrovic doesn't get a penalty for being dragged to the ground by two players? Clear and obvious - couldn't be more so.

That has cost Serbia at the very least a point and probably three.

It's insanity.

WorcsWBA

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #218 on: June 22, 2018, 09:35:57 PM »
Foul on Mitrovic easily one of the worse instances of VAR not being used. Makes the fouls on Kane in the box actually look legal.
My understanding is that the VAR officials (and there are 4 of them) are able to draw incidents to the referee's attention in this tournament, is that correct? If they fail to do so for blatant fouls like this, whilst awarding penalties for the ball hitting a player on the arm when he's about a yard away from the ball and looking in the other direction, it's bringing the whole of football into disrepute.

They also need to do something with retrospective punishments to put an end to players rolling around on the floor in mock agony over the slightest challenge and then be running around again as if nothing's happened a few seconds later. It needs to be dealt with in a similar way to diving and I'd be handing out tougher penalties for both.

17GD

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #219 on: June 22, 2018, 11:20:45 PM »
In my opinion, Ronaldo leads a team. Messi needs a team.

Ronaldo creates chances wherever he is and has the personality to motivate a team. Messi gets crowded out easily and sulks (I know CR does too, but Messi lets his head drop).

I also think it's important to realise that Argentina aren't the team they used to be. Aguero isn't the player he is for City for exactly the same reasons as Messi. Both world class players, but don't seem to have the same effect if they're not surrounded by players of higher quality.

You look at Portugal, they're not a team overflowing with Ronaldos, but CR motivates the team and won't settle for poor play. To me it seems as though Messi just does his own thing, and psychologically, Ronaldo is a stronger player.

I'm disappointed with VAR too. That Nigerian clearly told the ref to f*** off early on in the game today, yet it went unpunished. Surely that's foul and abusive language towards an official?

And with Mitrovic it was laughable. Clearest penalty (in real time) you'll ever see. No need for VAR there. It just gives the impression of weak officiating and corruption.

costa blanca baggie

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #220 on: June 23, 2018, 12:01:56 AM »
VAR worries me. We all know referees can’t be questioned after a game as to their decision making. This often was excuseable do to the speed of the game, and/or the the ref being insighted. However, the new system takes the pressure off the referee regarding these circumstances. But decisions are being made, and yet again no explanation is being put forward as to the reasons why. A post match question session about major incidents would be a way forward, otherwise everyone will have doubts as to why they are made. By the way, what ever happened to the automatic yellow for diving?
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wba_1996

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #221 on: June 23, 2018, 02:45:18 AM »
The issue with Argentina is Sampaoli. Utter moron. Yes the squad isn't on the same level as a France or a Belgium but his line-up and tactics are bemusing and he seems to have a reliance on players based in Argentina, to the detriment of the team. He played a three man defence against Croatia and included an attacking 5ft 7 left back and an attacking 5ft 11 right back as two of the centre backs. Completely hung Otamendi out to dry. On top of that, Acuna, Meza and Perez started ahead of much better players for no apparent reason. Fair enough, Lanzini and Romero getting injured before the tournament messed up his plans a bit, but there are more than enough alternative options in the squad. He's even had the luxury of being able to completely leave out players like Icardi, Pastore and Alejandro Gomez who would all walk into England's starting XI. As Fritzl said, his manic pacing up and down the touchline does nothing to help the team and his substitutions were awful as well.

Look at how they could have lined up:

Guzman
Mercardo - Otamendi - Rojo - Tagliafico
Lo Celso - Banega
Messi - Dybala - Di Maria
Aguero

Miles better balance, and includes all of their best players bar Higuain.

MarkW

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #222 on: June 23, 2018, 08:13:15 AM »
My understanding is that the VAR officials (and there are 4 of them) are able to draw incidents to the referee's attention in this tournament, is that correct? If they fail to do so for blatant fouls like this, whilst awarding penalties for the ball hitting a player on the arm when he's about a yard away from the ball and looking in the other direction, it's bringing the whole of football into disrepute.

They also need to do something with retrospective punishments to put an end to players rolling around on the floor in mock agony over the slightest challenge and then be running around again as if nothing's happened a few seconds later. It needs to be dealt with in a similar way to diving and I'd be handing out tougher penalties for both.

VAR can say to the ref "I think you should look at this" but the ref can choose not to. Stupid system
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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #223 on: June 23, 2018, 09:47:08 AM »
The Ronaldo - Messi debate is tiresome. It is a shame fans can’t just enjoy two of the greatest players ever playing at the same time. They both have different qualities and yeah, Ronaldo’s body seems to suggest he will last longer than Messi but equally, Messi at his best was better to watch. Both incredible players.

I am enjoying the World Cup, with it being so competitive, even though the way the draw is going is scaring me into believing we might actually get a favourable route to the semi finals (hope that kills you and all that).

England aren’t going to win this tournament, but a good showing will set us up well for the next few tournaments.

By the next Euros, Kane will be 26, Sterling 25, Stones 26, Alli 24, Alexander Arnold 21, Dier 26,  Loftus Cheek 24, Rashford 22, all 3 keepers still in their 20s, Oxlade Chamberlain 26, and then they will be supplemented by an interesting group of youngsters coming through, with Sessegnon, Foden and Sancho being 20 Winks 24, Cook 23, Maddison 23, Abraham and Solanke 22, Nmecha, Davies and Oxford 21, and that’s not to mention many more of the youngsters from the dominant English age grade teams (Chalobah, Mcguane at Barca, Mount, Willock, Nelson, Hudson-Odoi, Brewster, Amaechi). Even pushing it, Wilshere and Barcley will still be mid 20s, and as we have seen these last two years, other players, especially defenders can come out of no where and flourish.

If things go right, this tournament could be an audition for the Euros in 2 years time.
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liverbaggie

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Re: World Cup 2018
« Reply #224 on: June 23, 2018, 10:53:49 AM »
All true and very exciting,but I notice that there isn't one baggie in that list,but we live in hope